twistinthunder wrote:What do you make out of it? :blink:

That pretty much proves that the 'leaked codex' is just a fanmade-dex. But I have got to give it to that Amnesia fellow, it is pretty well made; fun new units, decent balance and point costs. If the real things ends up somewhere around his version, we'll have a fun codex on our hands.

But this just increases my doubt to the existance of the Storm Harbinger/Tantalus Lander. No first-wave model, and no mention of it by any sources known to be in the loop.

In any case, just a few more weeks.

The schedule implies that the "leak" was a viral marketing strategy to promote Amnesia's homegrown Codexes.

Personally, I'm looking forward to his Chaos Legion-specific 'dexes.

Redemption wrote:

twistinthunder wrote:What do you make out of it? :blink:

That pretty much proves that the 'leaked codex' is just a fanmade-dex. But I have got to give it to that Amnesia fellow, it is pretty well made; fun new units, decent balance and point costs. If the real things ends up somewhere around his version, we'll have a fun codex on our hands.

But this just increases my doubt to the existance of the Storm Harbinger/Tantalus Lander. No first-wave model, and no mention of it by any sources known to be in the loop.

In any case, just a few more weeks.

Well, what gives it away that it is purely fan-made is the whole "Bat Riders" thing... nice early April Fool's, and it generated some good discussion. At least it is known that people like the concept of "air cavalry" and having assault squads be able to directly assault out of it is something that GW should look into. Oh well, now to wait for more interesting snippets.

Black box is only like 2 weeks away so if that leaked pdf doesn't bear a resemblance to the actual codex then GW did an even better job at keeping everything quite this time than you'd think.

JIT works well if your factory has a fast throughput. Consider a company that sells a lot of merchandise that can be purchased with a wide array of options. It's not possible to know what set of options will be the most popular so you accept orders then build them. Typically the potential customer will enquire what is the turn around time and if it meets their schedule then they will probably go ahead and make the purchase. I fairly certain GW has warehouses full of stock. Back when they sold bits that used the JIT philosophy .

And yeahs the reference to Govt Motors was an allusion to the fact that the federal government owns the controlling share of stock but that is going OT so I'll just leave it at that here for now and so to speak.

<o\\\><<

G

These new or old? I haven't seen them here before.
They were up at Bols.

That's definitely either a new sergeant or some amazing GS work. Same goes for some of the shoulder pads/heads/legs on the marines.

Agreed. That's very impressive, if it's greenstuffed. But BoLS labels it as a sneak peak, and lists their source as Australian White Dwarf. I personally feel that we're looking at actual pictures of some of the BA releases.

Is that a glimpse of a new Baal Predator I see?

Is it just me or does the hull of that Baal seem bigger than a normal Rhino?

Its the same old Baal predator.

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:Its the same old Baal predator.

G

I'm not so sure. Compare this picture of the current Baal:



And this picture of the preview Baal:



The one in the newer picture looks to have a different ejection port setup towards the back of the main guns, the little vertical lines on the side of the turret look wider, the assault cannons seem to protrude more from the turret, the front vision slit looks different and new, and the pintle-mounted storm bolter has a different icon on the side (Skull instead of eagle). I think it may be a new kit.

I agree, the barrels of the assault cannons are longer and the ejection port at the back is noticeably larger not so tilted. Also, ignoring the iconography, the view port on the front is completely different.

The sponson join at the hull plating is also very different, much more like the Land Raider sponsons (which I believe we heard was the rumor for them too),

Jack

Man, I just finished assembling one of the old baal tanks. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that a new (hopefully all plastic) one will be coming out. It also looks like there is a join on the cover over the assault canon barrels, which seems to scream all plastic to me. That old cover was just a solid hunk of metal, I really hate combination metal/plastic kits.

IT'S the same old Baal.

G

Looks new to me

Yes no yes no yes no yes no yes no yes no yes no

Eh, too close to call, really. It could have just been constructed differently, or it is the new one, but there are slight differences.

What I want to know about is the size of the terminator squads in the new codex. Will I be able to take squads of 10 like codex marines, and make use of those beautiful Space Hulk terminators?

Green Blow Fly wrote:Yes no yes no yes no yes no yes no yes no yes no

GBF, it's a new kit.

Look at the back of the turret, where the 'ammo box' is, notice the open left-hand section door. It's sticking straight up 'open' the old baal pred kit (where this part was metal) had the same side open, but the top door was molded back folded down along the back of the box, not sticking straight up like that in the picture. Also, as others have said, the assault cannon has some subtle differences.

It's made to fit very closely with the old Baal pred kit, so at a glance you can't tell them apart (good for consistencies sake) but it's obviously a new (hopefully all plastic) kit.

Just my observations.

-RT-

Those are conversions using bits.

G

Still doesn't explain away the other models and it would seem odd putting a converted Baal in a picture meant as a preview of the new minis. I still think that 'ammo box' is subtly different in size, shape, the angle it sits with the rest of the turret, etc. in a way that doesn't suggest someone has just modified the exisiting model.

Unless you know something you aren't letting on...

This codex can't get released fast enough...

I agree Alph. Hopefully they will be SW +1... at least I hope so.

G

i'm in the "it's new" camp. the marine sergeant and tactical shoulder pad bits definitely look new and the angles (yes, the geometric term and not the common mispelling of the chapter) are different enough for me to say new kit.

They can have a new psychic power - Wings of the Twilight Bat - which just has the same rules as JOTWW, only more powerful (x2).

And I think we're seeing parts of the new BA upgrade sprue in that photo. Honestly it seems a little subdued, especially given the bling on the Hulk Blood Angels.

H.B.M.C. wrote:They can have a new psychic power - Wings of the Twilight Bat - which just has the same rules as JOTWW, only more powerful (x2).

And I think we're seeing parts of the new BA upgrade sprue in that photo. Honestly it seems a little subdued, especially given the bling on the Hulk Blood Angels.

well, they are the first company. they get the finest jewelry that the chapter jeweler has to offer! i was quite pleasantly suprised with the quantity of BA bling on the hulk models. it's one of the reasons my deathwing force has only them in it!

Green Blow Fly wrote:IT'S the same old Baal.

G

Lets bet on it , you keep denying the rumors ,
what do you want to wager thats a new Baal kit?

Dinner in hte Bronx at this Italian place on 5th. I'll be there in April.

: )

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:Dinner in hte Bronx at this Italian place on 5th. I'll be there in April.

: )

G

No a real bet. With GW items.

Box of Devastators so your DC can take free grenades.

G

Why would someone convert the sponson brace to be slightly different, and the storm bolter to have a skull instead of an eagle, for a promotional image for a new kit?

It's super obviously the new kit, beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Its hard to tell whether its new or not because of the new paint job, which can be deceitful, but i think its new purely because of the subtle minor differences.

Also, these pics definitely DON'T come from the Australian White dwarf, because i am australian and its not there. Apart from that, on BoLS it says they're from Scryer of Darkness.

The thing about the Australian White Dwarf is about the exerpt about the blood angels it comments on how they are going to angelic ,not that we didn't know that already, but apparently that was in most editions of the feb white dwarf.

I think its cute they modeled Sanguinius after Jesus and then mentioned theyre releasing BA for easter

Wasn't the old kit done in metal? If the new kit is done all in plastic, it would stand to reason that there would be some changes.

As of 11:46 Eastern time, the GW site is funky. Can't get to the online store.

Kirasu wrote:I think its cute they modeled Sanguinius after Jesus and then mentioned theyre releasing BA for easter

And at the last supper, all the sanguinary priest sat at the table when Sanguis picked up the red grail and said "This is my blood, drink in rememberance of me"

Little did they know that they'd soon have troubles forgetting.........

Green Blow Fly wrote:Box of Devastators so your DC can take free grenades.

G

I dont want to pay $15 shipping to send 1 devastators box , lets bet bigger.

Atleast a battle force.

Ironhide wrote:Wasn't the old kit done in metal? If the new kit is done all in plastic, it would stand to reason that there would be some changes.

As of 11:46 Eastern time, the GW site is funky. Can't get to the online store.

It is definitely a new model. The assault cannons on the old one have weird mold lines. All of those look super straight, plus if you look at the side of the cover over the assault cannons there is a seam that isn't on the old one. Definitely plastic.

If it is indeed new, and plastic, that will be a godsend. I am too spoiled now.

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:If it is indeed new, and plastic, that will be a godsend. I am too spoiled now.

it would be the first time i would be tempted to magnetize something o_o

A battleforce is too much and i would feel like a jerk taking advantage of you (assume I have a source). The winner must be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the predator in the picture is new or existing... Might be easy to do but might not. I've seen big arguments before about a model that was painted by someone and then supposedly entered by someone else in a GD painting contest. Basically a shat storm ensued regarding whether or not it was the same model and it got really out of control. I don't want to be at the center of one of those type of argument with something as expensive as a battleforce factored into the equation. I think something along the lines of a box of Devastators is adequate for the sake of a bet.

G
.

Im not sure if this has already been mentioned, but the baal pred isnt on the Australian GW site anymore. Might just be regional thing or somthing, but just putting it out there

Here's the original pic which the other 2 pics on BoLS were cropped of. I dug this up of WarSeer, complements of Scryer in the Darkness.

Look at the difference in shade of the Baal and the Rhino at the front compared with the Rhino in the middle and the Tactical Squad at the back compared with the one at the front. I don't think these were painted at the same time or even necessarily by the same person. If this is from someone's army and they have gone to such lengths to subtly convert a Baal, then why not make sure the colour scheme is consistent...?

apart from that, thats a classsic GW tau paint scheme and the brighter red tactical marines are painted in textbook GW style. Ironicly they had a similare face of in the standard bearer article when they released the PDF codex

The middle Rhino is from when the Rhino kit was released, it is one of the Studio examples showcased then, which is aeons ago by now.

Does anyone know if the Sanguinor model is supposed to have WINGS or just a regular jp?

Originally, in the first batch of rumors, there was mention of a monstrous creature that seems to have disappeared since. I wonder if this is possibly Sanguinor with wings?

H.B.M.C. wrote:They can have a new psychic power - Wings of the Twilight Bat - which just has the same rules as JOTWW, only more powerful (x2).

And I think we're seeing parts of the new BA upgrade sprue in that photo. Honestly it seems a little subdued, especially given the bling on the Hulk Blood Angels.

I hope that they do tone down the 'bling' a bit.

The Space Hulk Terminators, while nice, were a bit over the top!

(Yes, it made converting them to another Chapter (Raven Guard!) a bit difficult!)

LunaHound wrote:

Green Blow Fly wrote:Box of Devastators so your DC can take free grenades.

G

I dont want to pay $15 shipping to send 1 devastators box , lets bet bigger.

Atleast a battle force.

If you're so convinced you're right, or at least enough to take the bet, does it matter? You won't be sending them anyway [sic].

It is the new one.

Take a look at the ammo hopper mounted on the back of the turret. Flap is open, something I don't believe the metal one has the option for.

I claim my pyizes.

Kind of underwhelmed by the Blood Angels 'extras' on those tactical marines, but not sure what I was expecting. Anyway, it wouldn't be enough to persuade me to get a specific upgrade kit.

So far it's a handful of models where most of the body is obscured.

I'm spying quite a few new helmets if nothing else.

Plus that's is only a Tactical Squad, the best bits are going to be for Assault Squads/Death Company... power weapons, inferno pistols and the like

Red Sternguard... Interesting.

G

warhammersupernerd wrote:Its hard to tell whether its new or not .

It is.

Clearly plastic. GW isn’t going to rerelease a hybrid kit.

Green Blow Fly wrote:IT'S the same old Baal.

G

we've already had confirmation(bramgaunt on warseer found the product codes much like scyer on warseer seems to get codes aswell) on a new baal kit also the bracing is very different (someone on warseer did a comaprison pic, properly 2 pics side-by-side). also look at the front not only is it very different, the indent bit is on the left(our right) when actually its should be on the right (our left)

So nobody else has noticed the crimson Sternguard?

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:So nobody else has noticed the crimson Sternguard?

G

I noticed them, but aren't they just the normal Sternguard painted red & gold or are you making reference to the fact that this implies that Blood Angels will have access to Sternguard?

I too was wondering why they used sternguard models for honor guard. Why not show off the new honor guard kits that's supposedly coming?

I guess they don’t want to reveal everything in the first preview. Honour guard/stern guard are the same anyway both are first company veterans.

I'm happy to see the HG that use sternguard models.

I was planning on setting up my veteran assault and honor guard as all-rounders with bolters and supplemental assault capability. This gives me hope (however slim) that we'll be able to use special sternguard ammo for our bolters. Doubting it, though..

Green Blow Fly wrote:So nobody else has noticed the crimson Sternguard?

G

they are honour guard, which you'd know if youd ever read the fluff(gold helm = honour guard, yellow = assault, blue = devastator)

twistinthunder wrote:

Green Blow Fly wrote:So nobody else has noticed the crimson Sternguard?

G

they are honour guard, which you'd know if youd ever read the fluff(gold helm = honour guard, yellow = assault, blue = devastator)

Then why would Honour Guard be using Sternguard models then....?
Yes, we know the unit designations of the BA's but this is not the point that GBF is making here.

Again, why are there sternguard models painted up in BA honour guard colors...?

One would think that the new BA's would include new models for honour guard yes...? And wouldn't they be configured and armed differently than standard sternguard....?

there is going to be a pic of the next blood angels in the next white dwarf right at the back

colonnello wrote:there is going to be a pic of the next blood angels in the next white dwarf right at the back

Is it going to be the one in this thread?

It is the one in this thread.

The sternguard debunk the Baal rumors. It like a laser to the tumors. Come on now let's have sense humors.

I love those Sternguard.

Green Blow Fly wrote:The sternguard debunk the Baal rumors. It like a laser to the tumors. Come on now let's have sense humors.

I love those Sternguard.

Having you been glueing things all afternoon?

Or they just don't want to put everything into the preview picture. I didn't see it but I'm guessing the equivalent picture for Tyranids didn't contain Raveners, Gargoyles, Venomthrope, Hive Guard and one or all of Trygon/Mawloc/Trygon Prime...

ThirdUltra wrote:

twistinthunder wrote:

Green Blow Fly wrote:So nobody else has noticed the crimson Sternguard?

G

they are honour guard, which you'd know if youd ever read the fluff(gold helm = honour guard, yellow = assault, blue = devastator)

Then why would Honour Guard be using Sternguard models then....?
Yes, we know the unit designations of the BA's but this is not the point that GBF is making here.

Again, why are there sternguard models painted up in BA honour guard colors...?

One would think that the new BA's would include new models for honour guard yes...? And wouldn't they be configured and armed differently than standard sternguard....?

look at who they are the honour guard to.

thats right tycho, he's not assault he's shooty so you'd expect his honour guard to be shooty aswell instead of assaulty.

im not saying im 100% right they might be sternguard but based on the fluff they look like they are honour guard.

also as mention the studio is incredibly lazy when it comes to these things they probably just took some models and painted them red and then decided to put gold on their helms.

Yeah.Their only going to show the kits that are obviously going to come out, like the Baal (being currently a hybrid) and a squad upgrade kits. Every thing else will be held back for the white dwarf release spread.

Lurker wrote:

LunaHound wrote:

Green Blow Fly wrote:Box of Devastators so your DC can take free grenades.

G

I dont want to pay $15 shipping to send 1 devastators box , lets bet bigger.

Atleast a battle force.

If you're so convinced you're right, or at least enough to take the bet, does it matter? You won't be sending them anyway [sic].

Ahahaha are you serious? My bets are as honored by me as any items i sent out in trade. This will be no different. New , never opened item , WITH tracking confirmation
through Expedited Mail.

@GBF , its a Battle Force atleast. How do we tell if it is new Baal or not? Make the bet of , if they release a new plastic Baal kit , you send me a battle force of my choice.
If they only have the old metal hybrid re-released , i send you a battle for of your choice.

Basically , we are both confident enough in blab how we think , im only putting the money / item at where my mouth is.

twistinthunder wrote:

ThirdUltra wrote:

twistinthunder wrote:

Green Blow Fly wrote:So nobody else has noticed the crimson Sternguard?

G

they are honour guard, which you'd know if youd ever read the fluff(gold helm = honour guard, yellow = assault, blue = devastator)

Then why would Honour Guard be using Sternguard models then....?
Yes, we know the unit designations of the BA's but this is not the point that GBF is making here.

Again, why are there sternguard models painted up in BA honour guard colors...?

One would think that the new BA's would include new models for honour guard yes...? And wouldn't they be configured and armed differently than standard sternguard....?

look at who they are the honour guard to.

thats right tycho, he's not assault he's shooty so you'd expect his honour guard to be shooty aswell instead of assaulty.

im not saying im 100% right they might be sternguard but based on the fluff they look like they are honour guard.

also as mention the studio is incredibly lazy when it comes to these things they probably just took some models and painted them red and then decided to put gold on their helms.

That's quite the stretch there......having Tycho in the pic means nothing. The only things that appear to be "new" may be the tac sgt with a right-handed power fist and some potential corvus pattern and beaky helms spread among the marines and a possible "re-make" or vehicle-sprue upgrade on the Baal Pred. As some have already postulated, it may even be done in all plastic now.....but there is very little evidence at this point from looking at a pic that has cobbled together several units that appear to be painted by different members of the GW studio.

This just appears to be a PR picture to promote the upcomming release IMHO.

I'm sure, when GW sees fit, we'll see the newer models in all of their glory instead of us having to dissect unclear photos that may or may not have new models in them.

So will Lt. Tycho have a rule that allow hes retinue to detached???

Green Blow Fly wrote:So will Lt. Tycho have a rule that allow hes retinue to detached???

Did you catch that Reds8n confirmed the new Baal? Few posts up now.

Whether that is plastic or not could be debated, but I would bet plastic.

On Stern/Honor guard.
The weapon options for Sternguard and Veteran Assault squads are similar.

They may just be VAS without Jumppacks.

I have seen lots of stuff confirmed then later dismissed, no disrespect to reds8n intended.

It just seems strange they would use Sternguard and I was the first one to mention them but have the new Baal. I have several Baals myself and see nothing in the picture to distinguish it from the existing kit including the twin linked assault cannon. The ammo box could just as well be a simple conversion.

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:So will Lt. Tycho have a rule that allow hes retinue to detached???

First: It's Captain Tycho.

Second: I believe the standard wisdom of recent marine codex (non space wolf) releases has had honor guard/retinues be able to detach from the commander they're assigned to/purchased with. This is common knowledge, yes?

Just some thoughts. Also GBF, it is an all new plastic Baal pattern predator. GW is going away from plastic/metal hybrid kits, this has been going on and known for *years* now. They're phasing them out. Look at the hellhound, the Leman Russ Demolisher, the Vindicator, the Whirlwind, the Immolator, Hell the Land Raider Crusader even. The only existing kits that I can think of off the top of my head that are still around are the Excorsist, the Fire Prism, and the current Baal Predator, which is already not available on the online store any longer.

It's common sense man.

Take it easy.

-RT-

I realize they are going to all plastic for tanks, that is great, but like I said I saw nothing in the picture to distinguish the Baal from the existing kit. The HB sponsons are already plastic btw.

It was a bit of tongue in cheek when I referred to brother Tycho as a lieutenant. I have actually run the special character in my army a few times btw so I'm quite familiar with his background. We don't really know what the Crimson Sternguard represent as yet since we havent seen the real codex. All we know is that they were built using the Sternguard models and it looks like they have quite a few combi bolters. They certainly look neat IMO firing their guns point blank into the Tau.

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:I realize they are going to all plastic for tanks, that is great, but like I said I saw nothing in the picture to distinguish the Baal from the existing kit.

The ejection ports for the turret AC's are different.
The cowling sits higher over the AC's, is in two parts and has a different angle on the bottom edge.
The blast shield behind the AC's sits higher, sits at a different angle, and has a different viewlense that likewise sits higher up.
The blast shield is in 2 pieces, split just behind the ejection port.
The ejection port is likewise a separate piece to the cowling.
The winged blood drop on the top of the cowling sticks out less (ie: is more flush with the surface).
The AC's protrude further from the cowling.
The shape of the muzzle assembly on the AC's is different.
The ammo hopper behind the turret gunner has a different shaped lid, and an open lid on the far side which is missing from the current kit.
The ammo hopper also looks longer, but that might just be the angle.
The storm bolter has a skull on its own instead of a winged skull.
The front of the rhino is a different bit

The whole cowling assembly looks plastic. The whole structure of it is very different to the metal version.

Okay I got one of my own Baals out to compare side by side with the zoomed in picture. Here are the results of my comparison:

•The ejection ports for the turret AC's are different. Identical
•The cowling sits higher over the AC's, is in two parts and has a different angle on the bottom edge. Identical
•The blast shield behind the AC's sits higher, sits at a different angle, and has a different viewlense that likewise sits higher up. Identical
•The blast shield is in 2 pieces, split just behind the ejection port. Identical
•The ejection port is likewise a separate piece to the cowling. Identical
•The winged blood drop on the top of the cowling sticks out less (ie: is more flush with the surface). Identical AFAICT
•The AC's protrude further from the cowling. Agreed
•The shape of the muzzle assembly on the AC's is different. Identical AFAICT
•The ammo hopper behind the turret gunner has a different shaped lid, and an open lid on the far side which is missing from the current kit. Agreed
The ammo hopper also looks longer, but that might just be the angle. Identical
The storm bolter has a skull on its own instead of a winged skull. Agreed

Those items noted above that I concurred with could simply be due to conversions, such as how the twin linked assault cannon is internally mounted or maybe the modeler simply used the bits from a landraider kit... Same as with the ammo box and storm bolter.

Note - AFAICT: as far as I can tell.

Note that I held my model at the same angle as that presented in the picture.

G
The front of the rhino is a different bit

The whole cowling assembly looks plastic. The whole structure of it is very different to the metal version.

I can only assume then that you have a very poor eye for detail, because all of the things you've listed as being identical are very clearly different.

The join lines were the new tank has extra parts for the cowling and blast shield are in particular very difficult to miss.

xD

insaniak wrote:I can only assume then that you have a very poor eye for detail, because all of the things you've listed as being identical are very clearly different.

The join lines were the new tank has extra parts for the cowling and blast shield are in particular very difficult to miss.

lol, he has a very keen eye for not wanting to pay up eventually on his earlier bet a few pages back.

I can only convey what my eyes relayed to my brain. Sure I could be wrong but that is what I clearly saw upon review. You do realize there are very few metal bits in the existing kit? Nobody uses the heavy flamer sponsons.

G

Red__Thirst wrote:The only existing [hybrid] kits that I can think of off the top of my head that are still around are the Excorsist, the Fire Prism, and the current Baal Predator, which is already not available on the online store any longer.

Alright, I'll try to put an end to this pointless argument going on here. Here's the two Baal turrets in one image:

As you can see, the barrels are longer, and the muzzles are thinner, less stubby, and have a protrusion on the end. The gun shield on the turret goes higher up, and also stretches further down. The ejection port on the new turret is sunken in, and a separate piece.

Now everybody, quit arguing over whether or not it's plastic. I shouldn't even have had to make this post, since Reds8n confirmed that it is plastic. He's the guy in the know, and has been for a long time.

EDIT: and the stormbolter's different, yadda yadda yadda

You know, I looked at the picture and didn't even notice the Sternguard models!

Good catch, though it was rather obvious, wasn't it?

This would certainly make the BA codex into a SW +1 version if the get all the neat new toys AND get to 'keep' Sternguard too!

What about the straight aegis defense lines?

Another thing to add is the sponson mantlet is different the old one does not have the reinforced angle on the bottom like the landraider and the sponson is not set in the door like the old one it is outside like the landraider. Time to buy luna some figs GBF.

Gornall wrote:What about the straight aegis defense lines?

I think that's mostly the camera angle, and a lot of the smaller sections from what I can tell.

I wouldn't bet a battleforce on it though

Well, I personally am excited about the prospects of a new all plastic tank. Hooray! Down with hybrid kits! (I hate those broadside suits!)

So if BA are getting sternguard vets, what are the chances that they are also getting vanguard vets?

The gunshield could have been glued differently. I've already stated the modeler may have either differently mounted the cannon internally or simply used the corressponding bits from a landraider kit.

The terms on the bet with Luna were never agreed upon... She wants to bet on a battleforce and I offered a box of Devastators. xD

G
.

That new Vet Sgt has a terrible stiff pose. Looks like he's got wooden legs. Upper torso is fine, but those legs are going to be need to be hacked apart and repositioned into something interesting. : /

I'm 99.99% certain that the 'sternguard' models we're seeing painted up as BA Honor Guard and just that: BA honor guard.

They used the (IMO awesome) sterguard vet models to show *one* possible way of fielding Honor Guard: Shooty.

Blood Angels Honor Guard will probably be one of *the most moddable* units in any space marine codex.

I imagine you'll be able to purchase Five Honor Guard veterans that come default equipped with Power armor (or artificer armor), bolters, bolt pistols (and maybe close combat weapons), offensive and defensive grenades, and a veteran stat line.

After that, you can start to add upgrades. Jump packs, combi-weapons, power weapons or power fists, meltabombs, specialist ammo for the bolters a-la the sternguard, etc. Though I for one think that Blood Angels will not be getting any of the sternguard goodies, being a predominantly jump pack/rapid assault force. Just my opinion.

What we're seeing is the 'standard' honor guard in power(/artificer) armor with minimal upgrades.

Just my .02 cents.

-RT-

Green Blow Fly wrote:The gunshield could have been glued differently. I've already stated the modeler may have either differently mounted the cannon internally or simply used the corressponding bits from a landraider kit.

The terms on the bet with Luna were never agreed upon... She wants to bet on a battleforce and I offered a box of Devastators. xD

G
.

Well im fine with box of devastators , but cant be 100% sure without release in a few month

For all who really don't have a good eye for detail, i've tried to outline some of the differences. Not a perfect job but gives a vague idea of what i can see (mind you, i'm probably no better)

[Edit: Touched up on my pic a little]

gonna grab 8 dreads right now gonna make a fun dreadnought BA army(red + heavy robots=khador?)

Why didn't you include thehead and shoulderpad on the Marine manning the stormbolter?

G

i thought that was pretty obvious, but i can update it if you want a long with anything else i missed

I was just asking why? So you don't think they are different bits then I take it.

G

well it looks new, but its also in the in the middle of the pic (well, almost) so i didnt really think of it. But I did notice some other smaller things i missed and stuff i wanted to touch up on, so its a good excuse to neaten things up a little

I'm sad the 'eavy metal team didn't seize the chance to rework the BA scheme back to how God intended it: Black shoulder pad trim!

But it's nice to see that they're cranking up the orange. Keeps BA distinct from all the other red marines.

I actually thought all the robery & blingery on the DA and BT sprues were kinda silly - good to know that BA at least run a tight ship. And do I spy a rather nice mark IV helmet in the back? Ace!

I guess this will be the cover then..

IMHO, That has to be one of the worst looking covers I've ever seen

[Edit: Damn, it is the cover]

The bolt pistol much to big. I mean come on seriously now.

Looks like a David Gallagher piece. He has certainly improved (remember his 3rd ed SM and BA covers? They stunk!), but I still don't like his style. Whose leg do you have to hump to get a cover by Boyd or Kopinski?

What an ugly, ugly cover. If that picture is anything to go by, the new gene flaws for the Blood Angels are a Giraffe-like necks (the only possible explanation for the shoulder pads being sooooo low) and Elephant legs

Personally, I like the cover. Though the bolt pistol should be a wee bit smaller.

You would.

G

reds8n wrote: I guess this will be the cover then..

i guess a side effect of the sanguination process of creating BA marines is that you get a tiny little head! they make up for this deficiency with really big pistols i guess. ugg.. maybe i can just physically cut and paste the 3rd edition cover to the new codex... : (

I am just wondering willit be available in hte new plastic.

G

No it's going to be a metal hybrid...

has anyone got a scan of the 3rd and 2nd ed covers?

That's horrendous, oddly-proportioned, and way too bright. If GW wants people to take the BA seriously as an army, they're failing. That looks like it belongs in a cartoon. Let's hope it's an early April Fools' joke.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

GentlemanGuy wrote:has anyone got a scan of the 3rd and 2nd ed covers?

2nd Edition


3rd Edition


You be the judge of which codex cover is best.

warboss wrote:

reds8n wrote: I guess this will be the cover then..

i guess a side effect of the sanguination process of creating BA marines is that you get a tiny little head! they make up for this deficiency with really big pistols i guess. ugg.. maybe i can just physically cut and paste the 3rd edition cover to the new codex... : (

Are you for real? Remember the monstrous, fist-waving terminator in the middle of it? It was a hellova lot worse. Now, the 2ed Angels of Death cover... Now that was art! (Just kidding, but it goes to show how a few years can smoothe over the worst baby-posed chaplain and his grim mask of grimness ).

EDIT: Dang, ninjaed by Paladin Blake! I was writing out of memory, just FYI.

I enjoy the cover - it seems like a throwback to the overly saturated 2nd ed cover. I wouldn't necessarily say it's good for this time and place, but I like the reference.

The style's fine it's just the execution that's terrible... I mean seriously,what is going on with the Sanguinary Priest's left leg

Kveldulv wrote:

warboss wrote:

reds8n wrote: I guess this will be the cover then..

i guess a side effect of the sanguination process of creating BA marines is that you get a tiny little head! they make up for this deficiency with really big pistols i guess. ugg.. maybe i can just physically cut and paste the 3rd edition cover to the new codex... : (

Are you for real? Remember the monstrous, fist-waving terminator in the middle of it? It was a hellova lot worse. Now, the 2ed Angels of Death cover... Now that was art! (Just kidding, but it goes to show how a few years can smoothe over the worst baby-posed chaplain and his grim mask of grimness ).

EDIT: Dang, ninjaed by Paladin Blake! I was writing out of memory, just FYI.

while i agree the 2nd edition one was nice for it's time (a bit too cartoony with it's odd proportions of hands/feet but that was par for the course with GW's art style back then).. the 3rd edition cover was awesome! a terminator suit on a 7ft steroid freak marine is SUPPOSED to be monstrous! i do hope they turn down the contrast/brightness on this cover like they did with the IG. anyone remember our first look at the IG cover which was an overexposed bright as the sun version of what actually came out?


*edit*

i even made my own amateurish photoshop (or technically MSPAINT) mashup of it way back in 1998 when i should have been attending class! shoryuken!!

They should go back to this John Blanche piece :p

Why are we not arguing about Baal???

G

Because you and Luna are the only ones who care. :p

Seriously though, everyone else seems to have already made up their minds.

chaplaingrabthar wrote:They should go back to this John Blanche piece :p

I love that art work! I remember mike mcvey making a conversion based on that captain in one of the old citadel modelling guides years ago.

Green Blow Fly wrote:Why are we not arguing about Baal???

G

There is nothing to argue about :'o
we wait for the release , and see if they make new one or not.

If they do i have devastator from you , if they dont , you get something worth equivalent of your choice from me.

Green Blow Fly wrote:The bolt pistol much to big. I mean come on seriously now.

That is because it is an emo pistol.

My first impression on the commander's head was i thought its photoshopped.

That weird glow around his head looked like copy paste ( from that distant )

Also his neck and head is placed SO CLOSE TO THE FRONT that one have to think how his anatomy work...

Looks like they all are in the middle of a LIMBO fight.

No Luna the bet was that the model in the picture is the new plastic release... not that there will be a new release.

G

Which it is.

Green Blow Fly wrote:No Luna the bet was that the model in the picture is the new plastic release... not that there will be a new release.

G

if you read (reed) it properly you find that that's what luna said... i think there's a mssing word though so thats not me having a g at you because luna could have worded that better.

I'm getting the feeling the GBF really likes Blood Angels...

i think i might end up doing angels sanguine rather than blood angels.

I cant believe no one posted this alternative cover ^-^v

i couldnt find it.

Looking forward to the flesh tearers being ‘’fleshed ‘’out myself

Anymore news on the rumoured flyer? Or is it going to turn out like that rumour of the land raider with four assault cannons, which were doing the rounds before the space wolves codex?

My god Lunahound..... my eyes, my beautiful eyes.....

Luna got an advance copy of the japanese version of the BA codex!

Major wood for sure this time.

G

Hey looky what I found



now ask this. Is it a fraud or the real thing

Good Day,

I like the look of that cover - I would be nice if it was the real deal.

Where did you find it?

OH well - it still looks nice.

Thank you,

I'm assuming fake;

It's a fake and it's been around for awhile. It's a photoshopped piece of Imperial Fist artwork. Look closely at the shoulderpads and you can see the black fists on white circles.

Edit: Ninja'd by AgeOfEgos! Damn!

Where did that Imperial Fist art come from?

TBD wrote:Where did that Imperial Fist art come from?

Some dude on Deviantart.

Why is it that a guy with photoshop on DeviantArt can make a better codex cover than an actual GW artist

That statement is strangely devoid of any abusurdity.

Paladin Blake wrote:You be the judge of which codex cover is best.

It appears, that historically, BA covers have been utter FAIL.

The Unending wrote:Why is it that a guy with photoshop on DeviantArt can make a better codex cover than an actual GW artist

100% Agree with you
and 100% truth

Death By Monkeys wrote:It's a fake and it's been around for awhile. It's a photoshopped piece of Imperial Fist artwork.

Still, it beats the hell out of any of the actual BA covers.

I'd agree with that.

The Unending wrote:Why is it that a guy with photoshop on DeviantArt can make a better codex cover than an actual GW artist

That statement is strangely devoid of any abusurdity.

and write better codex too.

G

The Unending wrote:Why is it that a guy with photoshop on DeviantArt can make a better codex cover than an actual GW artist

That statement is strangely devoid of any abusurdity.

When the man's right he's right.

Screw the haters, the 2nd ed Warhammer 40k picture by John Blanche is awesome, and I'd happily by it as a mural for my wall.

rather than the codex front image,

I wonder on how good the codex will be and if we'll see idiot and devious things such as in the Space Wolves codex. I don't care about the images nor if they'll remake some models.

I just want to know if it will be nerfed, broke or just PLAYABLE.

None cares for the first image, if that would be I'd have to avoid playing marines because my codex is fullfilled with Smurfs (wich I hate in this version of the background). Perhaps newcome does, but once they look inside and read the background, they'll choose accordingly to their like and needs.

I wish they would get that Clint Langley guy that does Fantasy Flight Games (they make the Dark Heresy books now) cover art... he is hardcore grimdark.

The arts not so bad. Its not jaw dropping just typical.

I remember the whine from the ig codex cover art, at least they had a reason.

At least the ig codex had that profesional touch to it. This one lacks it for me

Brother SRM wrote:Screw the haters, the 2nd ed Warhammer 40k picture by John Blanche is awesome, and I'd happily by it as a mural for my wall.

Good man, that man!

Ah, the happy memories...

I suppose rather then debating over the new cover we should probly get back on track. Anything new cropped up yet?

Brother SRM wrote:Screw the haters, the 2nd ed Warhammer 40k picture by John Blanche is awesome, and I'd happily by it as a mural for my wall.

I had it as a massive poster on my wall for years (picked it up at UK Games day 94 or 95)

Current rumors are that black boxes are set to arrive the week of March 13th.

bhsman wrote:Current rumors are that black boxes are set to arrive the week of March 13th.

I'm sorry, what does that mean? This is the first release I cared about since I started playing so I don't really follow rumor cycles.

Black Boxes are samples of the new products that get sent to GW stores a few weeks before general release. Usually these models end up in the stores display case.

So basically you can read the codex at your local gaming store (if they have a decent relationship w/GW) or your local GW.

Commander Endova wrote:Black Boxes are samples of the new products that get sent to GW stores a few weeks before general release. Usually these models end up in the stores display case.

Oh okay, I as wondering where my LGS had gotten those kan/dreads boxes from.

Just curious: Do they put regulations on those black boxes' use? For example, what would stop them from giving away the models, or taking them for their own collections? Is there a stipulation that they must be put on display to generate sales?

Back on topic: I've asked before and got no answer. Can anybody find out the max terminator squad size? I am dying to know!

Couple minor updates from Warseer:

- Philbrad confirms that the hand flamers on the new BA plastic set are on both left and right hands.

- TheVoice clarifies, however, that the hand flamers do not need to be used in pairs like the SoB use them and states that Vanguard Vets can take them in combination with a power weapon.

- TheVoice also indicates that the Baal Predator in the pic we've seen is, indeed, the new kit and alludes to it having additional turret weapon options.

- There are also rumblings that the Baal may get Flamestorm sponsons a la the Redeemer, although there's some confusion over whether that's actually the case or just a redesign for the heavy flamer sponsons.

hmm overcharged pred with flamestorms might be fun

I would expext that it is just new look Heavy Flamers, given, that as a Land Raider sponson, Flamestorms are comparable to Hurricane Bolters or Twin-Linked Lascannons

I always thought the flamestorm cannons were there to fuel sales of the LR kit :p I dont see whats so hard about mounting drums of gasoline (promethium), igniting them and then directing the flames

Tl-lascannons require more energy in theory.. Dont really know if I buy that since razorbacks can simply switch their HB for one and not lose any transport capacity.. and dreadnoughts can carry hurricane bolters (which again seems pretty simple! just 6 bolters glued together)

I would assume a predator could carry all 3 of those options if they so wished..

Theoretically yes but most vehicle weapons tend to follow simple placement principles. Typically a normal size tank (Predator, Russ) carries a single heavy weapon sponson and larger vehicles (Landraider, Baneblade) carry twin-linked sponsons. I'm just classing a flamestorm cannon compared to heavy flamer as roughly equivalent to twin-linked heavy bolter compared to single heavy bolter or twin-linked lascannon compared to single lascannon.

So apparently blood angels are getting Vanguard veterans (and by extension, sternguard veterans as well?)

Interesting. Or perhaps 'vanguard' are the default name of honor guard, or veteran assault squads, or whatver the entry winds up being.

I'm also curious to see what exactly these 'other options' are for the turret of the twinlinked assault cannon. I've presently got two unassembled old-school Baal Predators at the house, if the Baal Pred entry has some new options and such I may just have to bits-order some stuff once some of the bits retailers have them in stock.

That's all for now, take it easy.

-RT-

A baal with flamestorm cannons would be way too crazy, especially if it was a 'fast' vehicle.

While I think there will be a healthy dose of cheese in the BA dex, that would be over the top.

blood angel wrote:A baal with flamestorm cannons would be way too crazy, especially if it was a 'fast' vehicle.

Not really. You'd be hard pressed to ever get them on the same target.

Not to mention that you'd have to be in spectacularly close range to even use them with an AV10 rear armor vehicle.

You're both wrong.

You'd use the long range fire of the main cannon as the primary weapon and then use the inferno cannons as 'counter assault.' Not to mention the fact that you can tankshock units (like ork hordes or nids that don't have an effective death or glory answer) to maximize your coverage ability.

That's a tactic you can pull off with IG Vets in a Chimera equipped with a Heavy Flamer. The difference being that a Chimera has access to weaponry with a range greater than a (relatively) paltry 24"

The real answer is that even if the rumor comes to pass we won't know how well it really works until it's playtested by the community at large.

I won't further derail the convo with talk of tactics. Sufficed to say that people take Baals now and if they are made 'better' people will take more of them. I would consider LR cannons on the side of them 'better' but in reality it is most likely just a redesign of the heavy flamer sponsons, which will not be taken over heavy bolters.

If the option to keep RazorBaals is still there that is most likely what people will continue to see for an AV 13 100 pnt tank.

We should see a point decrease since the auto cannon hb ultra variant is 85 pnts.

blood angel wrote:You'd use the long range fire of the main cannon as the primary weapon and then use the inferno cannons as 'counter assault.' Not to mention the fact that you can tankshock units (like ork hordes or nids that don't have an effective death or glory answer) to maximize your coverage ability.

What you've described seems to indicate that it would be "effective", which is quite a bit different to "too crazy".

Try to remember what you're arguing about.

Crazy............Thang?


But as was asked and (I believe) never answered, are termy squads staying the same or changes sizes or anything?

"Change in sizes"?

Care to explain what that actually means...

You know, HBMC, like, they can shrink down to fit on a 25mm base like they used to.

There's a joke about Larry Craig to be made here. But, no, it's highly unlikely if not outright improbable for them to put Terminators on smaller bases now.

Sorry, I thought that was so ridiculous that I didn't need to include the '<j/k>' logo...maybe not...

Sorry should have been more specific for those of us that are incredibly literal. Someone earlier mentioned different terminator squad sizes.

Yeah, I did. I was hoping that the squad size had been bumped to 10, but nobody has an answer for that yet.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

blood angel wrote:You'd use the long range fire of the main cannon as the primary weapon and then use the inferno cannons as 'counter assault.' Not to mention the fact that you can tankshock units (like ork hordes or nids that don't have an effective death or glory answer) to maximize your coverage ability.

What you've described seems to indicate that it would be "effective", which is quite a bit different to "too crazy".

Try to remember what you're arguing about.

What fantasy land do you live in where it is ok to have a tank that has massive anti horde/meq/anti armor is fast AND is AV 13 for around what will most likely be 120 pnts not too crazy? Do I need to mention that it will be able to move over 6 so that people that say that 'ohh since it has short range it will be vulnerable to assault' will need 6's to even hit it?

By all means bring on this miracle tank and I'll use it all day long but it doesn't mean that it's not 'too crazy.'




Automatically Appended Next Post:
I kid, I kid.. i'll be too busy assaulting out of my thunderhawks to worry about taking predators. That is unless they are cheap and still do everything mentioned above.

I seriously doubt it will get better options than it has now.

I does seem like the BAs will be able to field quite an impressive AV 12/13/14 rush.

blood angel wrote:What fantasy land do you live in where it is ok to have a tank that has massive anti horde/meq/anti armor is fast AND is AV 13 for around what will most likely be 120 pnts not too crazy?

I kid, I kid.. i'll be too busy assaulting out of my thunderhawks to worry about taking predators. That is unless they are cheap and still do everything mentioned above.

Translation:

The sky is falling! The sky is falling! This Codex will be the most powerful one ever!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Why does this happen with every Codex?

I suspect that squad sizes for termies will work like they do in the space marine codex, buy 5 for X points, can add up to 5 additional models to the unit for X points a piece, etc, etc.

As for the Baal pattern predator, I intend on running at least two of them. Both with overcharged engines, and probably heavy bolter sponsons. I'll have to wait and see what sorts of turret weapon options will be available, but I have recently invested in some magnets, so my predators will be fully moddable depending on what the situation might be.

However, I can see my preds putting down a barrage of 10 or more shots at medium to short range while rolling forwards 6", and that thought makes me smile.

Sufficient to say, I'm quite excited at the prospects of what is to come personally. Hoping that the codex is balanced, and that I don't get the good old eyeroll effect when I open my case and people see the red marines start to be brought out.

On an unrelated note, I always hated that stigma that I was automatically labeled as a cheesemonger and dinged on sportsmanship in tournaments based *PURELY* on the fact that I played Blood Angels. I didn't play a cheese list, I ran full 10 man tactical squads back when *everyone* was using 6 man las/plas or 5 man squads for BA beause I liked the fluff of having a full 10 man unit. Not that it mattered, I'd lose a tournament game and STILL lose points on sportsmanship for being "a cheesy Blood Angels player". Not that I'm bitter, I know there were people who abused the old Blood Angels list to the upteenth degree, but I wasn't one of them, and it always left a bad taste in my mouth that I was lumped in that way.

Just a personal rant on that. Not to derail the topic, just a thought after reading HMBC's comment on this being 'the most powerful codex eeeevvvvaaaaaarrrr'. Brought up some old memories on that end.

Thanks everyone, take it easy.

-RT-

H.B.M.C. wrote:

blood angel wrote:What fantasy land do you live in where it is ok to have a tank that has massive anti horde/meq/anti armor is fast AND is AV 13 for around what will most likely be 120 pnts not too crazy?

I kid, I kid.. i'll be too busy assaulting out of my thunderhawks to worry about taking predators. That is unless they are cheap and still do everything mentioned above.

Translation:

The sky is falling! The sky is falling! This Codex will be the most powerful one ever!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Why does this happen with every Codex?

I guess you didn't ear about the BAs new Psychic power "Fangs of the Vampire Bat"? All models on the board have to take an Inititive test (even vehicals which don't have an I so autofail), and if they fail they are removed from the game!

blood angel wrote:What fantasy land do you live in where it is ok to have a tank that has massive anti horde/meq/anti armor is fast AND is AV 13 for around what will most likely be 120 pnts not too crazy? Do I need to mention that it will be able to move over 6 so that people that say that 'ohh since it has short range it will be vulnerable to assault' will need 6's to even hit it?

By all means bring on this miracle tank and I'll use it all day long but it doesn't mean that it's not 'too crazy.'

Unless you're a GW tester and have had extensive experience playing with and against the newest version of the Baal Predator, all you're doing here is acting like Chicken Little.

Dexy wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

blood angel wrote:What fantasy land do you live in where it is ok to have a tank that has massive anti horde/meq/anti armor is fast AND is AV 13 for around what will most likely be 120 pnts not too crazy?

I kid, I kid.. i'll be too busy assaulting out of my thunderhawks to worry about taking predators. That is unless they are cheap and still do everything mentioned above.

Translation:

The sky is falling! The sky is falling! This Codex will be the most powerful one ever!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Why does this happen with every Codex?

I guess you didn't ear about the BAs new Psychic power "Fangs of the Vampire Bat"? All models on the board have to take an Inititive test (even vehicals which don't have an I so autofail), and if they fail they are removed from the game!

What what what??? Surely there is no other attack like this in ANY other SM codex, so this is totally unprecedented!!!

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:

Dexy wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

blood angel wrote:What fantasy land do you live in where it is ok to have a tank that has massive anti horde/meq/anti armor is fast AND is AV 13 for around what will most likely be 120 pnts not too crazy?

I kid, I kid.. i'll be too busy assaulting out of my thunderhawks to worry about taking predators. That is unless they are cheap and still do everything mentioned above.

Translation:

The sky is falling! The sky is falling! This Codex will be the most powerful one ever!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Why does this happen with every Codex?

I guess you didn't ear about the BAs new Psychic power "Fangs of the Vampire Bat"? All models on the board have to take an Inititive test (even vehicals which don't have an I so autofail), and if they fail they are removed from the game!

What what what??? Surely there is no other attack like this in ANY other SM codex, so this is totally unprecedented!!!

Man even in some kind of restricted line form that would be too powerful! I just can't see anything like this ever happening.

bhsman wrote:

blood angel wrote:What fantasy land do you live in where it is ok to have a tank that has massive anti horde/meq/anti armor is fast AND is AV 13 for around what will most likely be 120 pnts not too crazy? Do I need to mention that it will be able to move over 6 so that people that say that 'ohh since it has short range it will be vulnerable to assault' will need 6's to even hit it?

By all means bring on this miracle tank and I'll use it all day long but it doesn't mean that it's not 'too crazy.'

Unless you're a GW Employee and have had extensive experience playing with and against the newest version of the Baal Predator, all you're doing here is acting like Chicken Little.

I fixed it, GW does not have play testers. They have employees that sit a round and play the game. They don't look for balance, nor clearly defined rules.

Double post, oops.

jbunny wrote:I fixed it, GW does not have play testers. They have employees that sit a round and play the game. They don't look for balance, nor clearly defined rules.

You should probably specificy further rather than generalize. I'd assume some newly-hired redshirt isn't privy to playtesting a new codex but is definitely a GW Employee. That aside, unless you are a GW play tester, then you're still speculating needlessly on how 'broken' a proposed unit might be.

EDIT: Big difference between "is" and "isn't"

It okay Foxy.

G

CrazyThang wrote:

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:

Dexy wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

blood angel wrote:What fantasy land do you live in where it is ok to have a tank that has massive anti horde/meq/anti armor is fast AND is AV 13 for around what will most likely be 120 pnts not too crazy?

I kid, I kid.. i'll be too busy assaulting out of my thunderhawks to worry about taking predators. That is unless they are cheap and still do everything mentioned above.

Translation:

The sky is falling! The sky is falling! This Codex will be the most powerful one ever!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Why does this happen with every Codex?

I guess you didn't ear about the BAs new Psychic power "Fangs of the Vampire Bat"? All models on the board have to take an Inititive test (even vehicals which don't have an I so autofail), and if they fail they are removed from the game!

What what what??? Surely there is no other attack like this in ANY other SM codex, so this is totally unprecedented!!!

Man even in some kind of restricted line form that would be too powerful! I just can't see anything like this ever happening.

Shut up, you're making my Necrons cry.

Though it must suck for 'Nid players too, 1/6 chance each to lose a "vehicle" really sucks.

CrazyThang wrote:even in some kind of restricted line form that would be too powerful! I just can't see anything like this ever happening.

I guess it is true that Americans don't get sarcasm...

The Watcher in the Dark wrote:

CrazyThang wrote:even in some kind of restricted line form that would be too powerful! I just can't see anything like this ever happening.

I guess it is true that Americans don't get sarcasm...

lolwut?

I'm obviously joking...

bhsman wrote:

jbunny wrote:I fixed it, GW does not have play testers. They have employees that sit a round and play the game. They don't look for balance, nor clearly defined rules.

You should probably specificy further rather than generalize. I'd assume some newly-hired redshirt isn't privy to playtesting a new codex but is definitely a GW Employee. That aside, unless you are a GW play tester, then you're still speculating needlessly on how 'broken' a proposed unit might be.

EDIT: Big difference between "is" and "isn't"

I think you missed my point that GW does NOT PLAY TEST to an effective level to determine if things are balanced or how the rules actually play out. They sure as hell don't proof read.

jbunny wrote:I think you missed my point that GW does NOT PLAY TEST to an effective level to determine if things are balanced or how the rules actually play out. They sure as hell don't proof read.

And I think you are missing my point: blood_angel is not a GW play tester, and therefore his opinion on how effective a theoretical setup on a Baal Predator would operate is mostly bunk. As would mine if I started making unfounded conjectures.

Come now fellows let us return to the topic at hand, shall we?

Since the recent 'leaked' PDF was apparently a fandex, will somone post a new rules/rumors compilation. I read that fake PFD too frequently, get excited for the release, then remember it is a fandex, and become dissapointed. I just want to see what the general dakka consensus of what will be in the codex is.

Chamleoneyes wrote:Since the recent 'leaked' PDF was apparently a fandex, will somone post a new rules/rumors compilation. I read that fake PFD too frequently, get excited for the release, then remember it is a fandex, and become dissapointed. I just want to see what the general dakka consensus of what will be in the codex is.

I thought the general consensus had it being some pre-printing thing? Did someone 'fess up to it?

Look back on page 20-21 of his forum. Maybe I missinterpreted somthing, but I thought the consensus was that the leak was a fake.... Please tell me I'm wrong

It was mainly divided. Some saying it was a fandex/hoax, others saying it wasn't. You'll really just have to make your own opinion as I don't believe it was definitvly answered in any way. But I am NOT going through this thread again. Hell I've been following it since page 3 and have read everything already

At this same relative point in time, we had a lot more Space Wolf rumour info. I don't know why these rumours have been so tight.

or maybe the space wolves were reletively loose? I don't know because i havnt followed this sort of thing before, but it would be good to get some more info

Agreed, GW has been so tight on info at this time on BA that they could still go: "Ha Ha April fools! The comments and photos in WD were a gag. We're really making: Codex Marenus Calgar next month." I remember back when SW, and Codex Chaos Daemons came out, we new practically everything about them. We even had a picture of the Soul Grinder a month or two in advance. I would have thought that GW would have released a photo of the Storm Harbinger to build excitment. Unless the Storm Harbinger is nothing but a rumor too. (Such a depressing thought.)

Yeah I'm sure it's just a gag.

G

I would go crazy if it was a gag. I've been following this since page 1 and have been surprised that all we have seen where those pictures in WD. Like someone said before in the previous two threads about the new dex's coming out we had all sorts of goodies to build excitement. I would be cool with anything at this point.

That avatar reminds me of Counting Crows for some reason.

G

If it is a gag, they are going to have a lot of pissed off BA players (like me...)

I seriously don't think it's a gag BUT it would be darn funny though. Not like GW to have much of a sense of humor so don't spend too much time worrying about it.

: )

G

I don't think it is either, because they released the news of it last month in a "Incoming" article. It wouldn't make sense if they didn't release it now.

IF it were a gag I wonder how many people would quit? I see a poll in dakka's future...

Chamleoneyes wrote:I would have thought that GW would have released a photo of the Storm Harbinger to build excitment.

Built excitement?

Advertise their products?

Drive their business?

No, no, no. These are not the ways of the GW. The GW is a secretive creature, and wants nothing more than to die with all its secrets held closely to its chest than to live on with even the chance of one getting out.

H.B.M.C. wrote:No, no, no. These are not the ways of the GW. The GW is a secretive creature, and wants nothing more than to die with all its secrets held closely to its chest than to live on with even the chance of one getting out.

So this was the secret of kronos?!? GW's release scheduel for the next 10 years!?!?

But on a more serious note, the Pre-order pictures should be available soonish, probaly at the back of the new White Dwarf.

Green Blow Fly wrote:Yeah I'm sure it's just a gag.

G

if it is a gag then aslong as they say:

"we're actually releasing dark eldar!"

ill be fine.

warhammersupernerd wrote:But on a more serious note, the Pre-order pictures should be available soonish, probaly at the back of the new White Dwarf.

Next WD is march, right? When BA is supposed to be released?

Some more reliable info about the book is starting to come:

Frgt/10 from Warseer wrote:Just spoke to a staffer who has seen the new book, few interesting things got said:
• the Baal pred can take a flamestorm cannon turret
• the death company is a unique unit, but you can have a 30man squad
• lemartes is a character upgrade for the death company instead of an hq choice
• the lander does not exist, or he completely missed it when looking at the dex. I'm tipping the former

He's reliable enough. Not the type to make up bs.
He did say that he didn't spend a lot of time with it, but said that it was 'insanely good' and anyone who complains about the new BA being bad are 'out of their minds'
sounds good to me

edit: also just pointing out the black boxes have not started to arrive; pre orders aren't until next week, with the boxes a week or so after that. My staffer saw the book at head office in aus.

Edit 2: also apparently the models are 'like space hulk but better'

So most likely no Tantalus Storm Crow Harbinger Lander thingamabob. Well, no suprise here. Too bad though, I liked the idea. The triple flame template Baal Predator sounds like it could be fun though.

Kveldulv wrote:

warhammersupernerd wrote:But on a more serious note, the Pre-order pictures should be available soonish, probaly at the back of the new White Dwarf.

Next WD is march, right? When BA is supposed to be released?

March WD is available but has zero BA pre-order, no list and no pics except the posted pic with the BA facing the Tau.
BA are an april release.

Sure bet should be the upgrades ( sprue? ) for tacs and the Baal pred. ( unavailable at GW site yet ).

1hadhq wrote:Sure bet should be the upgrades ( sprue? ) for tacs and the Baal pred. ( unavailable at GW site yet ).

Plastic sets are:

Baal Predator

Death Company

Sanguinian Guard

What exactly the last one is, is not yet known. Probably something like the Space Wolves Pack; some upgrade sprues with bling to turn normal Space Marine sets into Blood Angels.

1hadhq wrote:WD is available but has zero BA pre-order, no list and no pics except the posted pic with the BA facing the Tau.
BA are an april release.

No pics? thats not normal of GW, but then again, since when has GW been normal. Maybe this is all one overdone GW April fools joke.

Redemption wrote:

1hadhq wrote:Sure bet should be the upgrades ( sprue? ) for tacs and the Baal pred. ( unavailable at GW site yet ).

Plastic sets are:

Baal Predator

Death Company

Sanguinian Guard

What exactly the last one is, is not yet known. Probably something like the Space Wolves Pack; some upgrade sprues with bling to turn normal Space Marine sets into Blood Angels.

The tacs on the Tau pic certainly seem to be sporting an upgrade sprue - MK IV helmet with a grail on the forehead, crusader helmets with blood drops, shoulder pads. All in all they look neat and tight. None of this X-treme robe sillyness other chapters favour...

Redemption wrote:So most likely no Tantalus Storm Crow Harbinger Lander thingamabob.

Who'd have thunk it...

So most likely no Tantalus Storm Crow Harbinger Lander thingamabob. Well, no suprise here. Too bad though, I liked the idea. The triple flame template Baal Predator sounds like it could be fun though.

Actually, don't count your chickens...

i don't know if anyone has mentioned this previously in the last 28 pages or so, but i was just handed a PDF for the BA codex. In it was the rules for the Storm Harbringer.

Can carry up to 16 troops, ass troopers and terminators count as 2 models. Can carry 1 dread or 5 bikes. Ass troops may assault on the turn they disembark, even if transport DS. ALSO, transport carries "Tantalus Assault Cannon Weapon System"...

are you ready for this?

Str 6, AP 4, Hvy 8, Pinning, Twin linked.

Also the rules for the lib dread.

x2 psychic powers used as a normal lib. If suffers PotW, only glancing hit sustained.

Haven't read further than that so far but if everyone is happy for me to keep going, i'll post a few more tidbits...

Apologies to all if info has posted elsewhere here.

Welcome to last month snowman40k; I'm afraid the codex you're reading is pretty much guaranteed to be the fandex circling the web for a while.

You can easily check: the fandex doesn't mention Hand Flamers, while they have already been seen on the BA upgrade sprue. Other more reliable rumors such as the Flamestorm cannon as Baal turret option are also missing.

snowman40k wrote:Apologies to all if info has posted elsewhere here.

I know that nearly 30 pages is a lot to go through, but you should really try to search for stuff before posting. This PDF has been downloaded, discussed and revealed to be a (well made) fandex across the board. The author admitted it - seems like it was a ploy to grab attention to his other fandexes. A nice effort, but don't spend anymore time on it.

EDIT: Ninja'ed by Redemption! D'oh!

You're sure this definitely isn't the leaked/hoax codex...?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Too late, ninja'd...

Double ninja'd! /flex

yeah i did run a search before the post but didn't find anything on it.

But haven't visited in over a week either.

I really hope this crap is a hoax tbh... there is a lot of BS in it and if even half of it is true it'll make the nids look like cute, furry little pets for children..

snowman40k wrote:I really hope this crap is a hoax tbh... there is a lot of BS in it and if even half of it is true it'll make the nids look like cute, furry little pets for children..

Agreed. It's not even that it's owerpowered, a lot of the rules don't even make sense (like Red Thirst and that SC that lets you shoot at terrain as enemies enter it.

Sorry for the curt reply earlier. I just got agitated that the fandex that fooled me was brought up again... Anyway, welcome to the discussion!

so how was it proven that it was a fandex? i'm not necessarily doubting it but just curious. i've only been slightly following the rumors for the past couple of weeks.

warboss wrote:so how was it proven that it was a fandex? i'm not necessarily doubting it but just curious. i've only been slightly following the rumors for the past couple of weeks.

Well, besides the fandex missing things like Hand Flamers, which have been confirmed to be on the sprue, the author of the fandex came forward a few weeks after its release that it was a viral advertisement for his fandex writing. He's intending do to more of them, such as Chaos Legions.

Wait, Blood angels get hand flamers?!?!

Scottywan82 wrote:Wait, Blood angels get hand flamers?!?!

Yes.

reds8n wrote:

Scottywan82 wrote:Wait, Blood angels get hand flamers?!?!

Yes.

*joygasm* That's practically official. My space marine army is 2nd/5th edition compatible.

Redemption wrote:

1hadhq wrote:Sure bet should be the upgrades ( sprue? ) for tacs and the Baal pred. ( unavailable at GW site yet ).

Plastic sets are:

Baal Predator

Death Company

Sanguinian Guard

What exactly the last one is, is not yet known. Probably something like the Space Wolves Pack; some upgrade sprues with bling to turn normal Space Marine sets into Blood Angels.

Baal Predator and Sanguian Guard (PA set) make sense, but why do people think they'll make a separate Death Company box. There weren't separate boxes for Blood Claws, Grey Hunters, or Wolf Guard, yet nobody would say the Wolf Pack box is lacking when it comes to building them.

Scottywan82 wrote:

reds8n wrote:

Scottywan82 wrote:Wait, Blood angels get hand flamers?!?!

Yes.

*joygasm* That's practically official. My space marine army is 2nd/5th edition compatible.

The Voice on Warseer also mentioned this tidbit about Hand Flamers:

Hand Flamers do not have to be taken in pairs. Vanguard Veterans, for example, can take them in combination with a Power Weapon.

This is The Truth.

bhsman wrote:Baal Predator and Sanguian Guard (PA set) make sense, but why do people think they'll make a separate Death Company box. There weren't separate boxes for Blood Claws, Grey Hunters, or Wolf Guard, yet nobody would say the Wolf Pack box is lacking when it comes to building them.

Well, it's not entirely clear what the 2 infantry sets are. There is at least one upgrade sprue, which is known to contain the following:

5x Bolt Pistols
5x Chainswords (1 two-handed)
5x Bolter arm sets
2x Hand Flamers
2x Perdition Pistols
2x Plasma Pistols
1x Power Sword
1x Thunderhammer
1x Powerfist
5x Jump Packs
5x Backpacks
5x Legs
5x Torso backs
5x Torso fronts
8x Heads
20x Shoulder pads
Other small bits

But it is not mention of which set it is a part of. Could be possible that the Death Company is more of an upgrade set, and the Sanguinian Guard is actually a new unit, something like the rumoured winged Blood Angels. The Voice mentioned some of the metal models for Special Characters have a single engined Jet Pack with large stylised angelic wings, perhaps this is continued in plastic?

I suppose there might be some sense in doing a plastic Death Company set if they are going to really bling them out with ornate armour, death masks and the like to make them trully distinct from the other BAs. As much as I love the new SWs plastics, they do suffer from every lowly Blood Claw looking pretty much like a Wolf Guard with different weapon options. Who know's, if there is a specific plastic Death Company boxed set then maybe it will give the options to make a Chaplain... (bear in mind this last point is wild speculation and I am in no way suggesting this is actually the case)

Kveldulv wrote:

Redemption wrote:

1hadhq wrote:Sure bet should be the upgrades ( sprue? ) for tacs and the Baal pred. ( unavailable at GW site yet ).

Plastic sets are:

Baal Predator

Death Company

Sanguinian Guard

What exactly the last one is, is not yet known. Probably something like the Space Wolves Pack; some upgrade sprues with bling to turn normal Space Marine sets into Blood Angels.

The tacs on the Tau pic certainly seem to be sporting an upgrade sprue - MK IV helmet with a grail on the forehead, crusader helmets with blood drops, shoulder pads. All in all they look neat and tight. None of this X-treme robe sillyness other chapters favour...

I think there's a MKIII helmet in there too!

The bits sites must be chompin' at the bit to get these... bits!

Redemption wrote:
5x Bolt Pistols
5x Chainswords (1 two-handed)
5x Bolter arm sets
2x Hand Flamers
2x Perdition Pistols
2x Plasma Pistols
1x Power Sword
1x Thunderhammer
1x Powerfist
5x Jump Packs
5x Backpacks
5x Legs
5x Torso backs
5x Torso fronts
8x Heads
20x Shoulder pads
Other small bits

Again, who's to say this isn't just the "Sanguian Guard" Power Armour kit that can be used to assemble Tactical/Assault Squads, VAS, Honour Guard...GW is unlikely to make a separate plastic kit for one unit. Not to mention they have a bad track history when it comes to selling standalone upgrade kits.

Redemption wrote:Some more reliable info about the book is starting to come:

Frgt/10 from Warseer wrote:Just spoke to a staffer who has seen the new book, few interesting things got said:
• the Baal pred can take a flamestorm cannon turret
• the death company is a unique unit, but you can have a 30man squad
• lemartes is a character upgrade for the death company instead of an hq choice
• the lander does not exist, or he completely missed it when looking at the dex. I'm tipping the former

Hmm... 30 DC? Yeah, it's kinda insane.

Too bad about the Lander - that would have been a cool model.

Redemption wrote:
Plastic sets are:
* Baal Predator
* Death Company
* Sanguinian Guard

What exactly the last one is, is not yet known. Probably something like the Space Wolves Pack; some upgrade sprues with bling to turn normal Space Marine sets into Blood Angels.

I'd agree with that. The DC is the 5-man+JP box, and the SG should be the 10-man+bitz box. The idea that GW wouldn't make a DC in plastic goes against the whole mix-and-match approach to SMs they embarked on with the BT Crusader upgrade box.

bhsman wrote:Again, who's to say this isn't just the "Sanguian Guard" Power Armour kit that can be used to assemble Tactical/Assault Squads, VAS, Honour Guard...

Yes, like I said, it is not currently known which of the two sets contains that sprue. Heck, maybe both contain it.

GW is unlikely to make a separate plastic kit for one unit. Not to mention they have a bad track history when it comes to selling standalone upgrade kits.

Well, that depends. Do you think it is more likely that both the Death Company box and the Sanguinian Guard are upgrade sets, than it is likely for just one of them being the upgrade set? If that isn't the case, than one of them is a seperate plastic set for one unit. And then the question is, which one? Is the Death Company unique enough to get their own box, after all, they're just regular BAs painted black with red X-es.

OTOH, for the longest time, BA & DA were just red and olive SM, respectively. And doing 2 small infantry sprues for BA (DC w/ JPs & SG w/ bitz) Codex release is on par with other modern Codex releases - Daemons & SW, for example.

But most likely, GW accountants crunched the numbers and figured out that plastic DC would make GW far more money over the next 8+ years than metal DC would.

Plus, it allows GW to theme DC with the long-awaited skull bitz for SMs, while still making the obviously expected teardrop bitz available on the "SG" veterans.

JohnHwangDD wrote:OTOH, for the longest time, BA & DA were just red and olive SM, respectively.

No they weren't. The Second Edition codex gave them Death Company and the Raven and Deathwings. And that's -what- 15 years old? Often, they were "ultramarines with a few different units", but based on the SW codex, it seems like GW is trying to make them fairly different.

Why would they think it would be more lucrative to spend money on two sets rather than just allow bits for both in a sole power armor kit that you'd have to buy for any unit. Why wouldn't the second infantry kit (if there is one) be a Terminator kit?

Terminator kit?

Every SM got already 2 standard kits plus the termie upgrades at the upgrade sprues to specify the chapter, so why should BA have a separate termie kit?

dietrich wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:OTOH, for the longest time, BA & DA were just red and olive SM, respectively.

No they weren't. The Second Edition codex gave them Death Company and the Raven and Deathwings. And that's -what- 15 years old? Often, they were "ultramarines with a few different units", but based on the SW codex, it seems like GW is trying to make them fairly different.

Sure, they were. The sheer triviality of the differences between BA/DA/UM forces in 2E being sprinkled across a handful of units didn't appreciably distinguish any of those armies. Take a Captain leading a Battle demi-Company (30 Tacs in 3 Rhinos, 10 AMs w/ JPs, 10 Devs in Rhino) in 2E and there's no difference between any of the three armies or how they play. To me, that means they're just a paint job.
____

bhsman wrote:Why would they think it would be more lucrative to spend money on two sets rather than just allow bits for both in a sole power armor kit that you'd have to buy for any unit. Why wouldn't the second infantry kit (if there is one) be a Terminator kit?

Because SW are known for their Termies (hence the SW Termie plastics as their 2nd squad box), whereas BA are known for their JPs (hence the BA DC plastics as the 2nd BA squad box).

Yes, I expect plastic Sword Brethren when BT get redone.

Just because they were once basically the same doesn't mean they can't be developed to add a little variety. Kroot and Necrons were once just a vague reference on one page of the 3e rulebook along with Hrud and the Clawed-Fiend of the Donorian sector but now Necrons in particular have some of the best fluff and coolest models in the game.

I would love if they were to release upgrade kits for terminators in the BA flavor, to bring them up to snuff with the Space Hulk termies, but JohnHwang is probably right about the BA being better known for jump-pack troops. We probably won't see a terminator upgrade sprue anytime soon, if ever, in the Blood Angels iconography. Time to brush up our Greenstuff skills!

The Watcher in the Dark wrote:Just because they were once basically the same doesn't mean they can't be developed to add a little variety.

Kroot and Necrons were once just a vague reference on one page of the 3e rulebook along with Hrud and the Clawed-Fiend of the Donorian sector but now Necrons in particular have some of the best fluff and coolest models in the game.

Oh, no doubt about that. The 3E sub-Codices were a great first step in making the various armies actually play differently, and the 4E/5E stuff is doing an even better job at differentiating the various flavors of SM. I think it's great that the non-UM armies suck at trying to be repainted blue marines, but are best playing as their own special forces with their own special toys.

I also like the development of Xenos forces to fight against. The Necron Codex did a good job at expanding the very limited 2E Necron range. I look forward to Tau Empire expanding into the Donorian sector, along with striking alliances with Hrud and other Xenos...
____

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:We probably won't see a terminator upgrade sprue anytime soon, if ever, in the Blood Angels iconography.

If GW tosses a couple BA Termie shoulders in the squad box, and the BA head bitz are interchangeable with Termie heads, do BA really need a dedicated Termie box?

Except that GW knows it has a bad track record with upgrade kits, like the Black Templar and Dark Angels one, and would probably stay away from it. Not to mention there's precedent for just filling a kit with lots of detailed bits and telling players to make three different units from it (with great success). Having a second PA box to compete with the first just doesn't add up.

bhsman wrote:Except that GW knows it has a bad track record with upgrade kits, like the Black Templar and Dark Angels one, and would probably stay away from it. Not to mention there's precedent for just filling a kit with lots of detailed bits and telling players to make three different units from it (with great success). Having a second PA box to compete with the first just doesn't add up.

I wouldn't say that at all. The Templar and Dark Angels ones are quite nice, in fact.

I supposed the BA are getting a JP box and a PA box. They're different, I think.

If the BA SG box makes 10 PA with bitz for more (like the SW Pack), and the BA DC box makes 10 DC AM with more bitz, it's not going to be a problem.


The only real problem with the Templar box is that it's a pure upgrade box. If it had 10 legs & 10 backpacks, in lieu of the tank sprue, it'd be flying off the shelves.

Kanluwen wrote:
I wouldn't say that at all. The Templar and Dark Angels ones are quite nice, in fact.

The kits are very nice, yes, but they don't sell well. If you wanted Black Templar doors for your rhino you would have to buy the whole kit just to get them, which made them not as popular as GW would like.

JohnHwangDD wrote:I supposed the BA are getting a JP box and a PA box. They're different, I think.

If the BA SG box makes 10 PA with bitz for more (like the SW Pack), and the BA DC box makes 10 DC AM with more bitz, it's not going to be a problem.

I admit, I could see a Tactical/'Bolter' box being separate from an Assault Box, except the sprue Philbrad saw had both backpacks and jump packs and Bolter Arms/BP and CCW arms. So, going by the Space Wolf Pack box, it'll have two copies of that sprue. That's more than enough for making Death Company, VAS/HG, Tactical squads, Assault Squads, etc. So why would GW make a second box that wouldn't sell well by comparison, or have better-looking bits and therefore sell more. It'd be like if they tried releasing the plastic Dreadnaught kit alongside the new Venerable kit at the same time. Obviously, people would buy the Venerable kit because it looks better and has a greater range of weapon options, and GW wouldn't maximize profits because they paid for the vanilla Dread sculpts.

There has to be a different plastic kit in the works (assuming there is a second one). I'm willing to bet it's the Lander, and before anyone says anything, I point you all towards GW's handling of Space Hulk.

bhsman wrote:There has to be a different plastic kit in the works (assuming there is a second one). I'm willing to bet it's the Lander, and before anyone says anything, I point you all towards GW's handling of Space Hulk.

GW's handling of Space Hulk (Mention that you're re-releasing Space Hulk soon, advertise an upcoming 'mystery box release, deny that the mystery box is Space Hulk despite various leaks saying that it is, unveil the fact that the mystery box is, in fact, Space Hulk) is not really relevant... for the simple reason that the lander is nothing more than a fan creation from a home-made codex.

insaniak wrote:GW's handling of Space Hulk (Mention that you're re-releasing Space Hulk soon, advertise an upcoming 'mystery box release, deny that the mystery box is Space Hulk despite various leaks saying that it is, unveil the fact that the mystery box is, in fact, Space Hulk) is not really relevant...

To be more specific, I meant to make the analogy that Space Hulk did have rumors going back and forth, which wasn't helped by GW itself, but for the models except for a privileged and lucky few did anybody know what the models looked like until Lorenzo showed up on the official website.

or for the simple reason that the lander is nothing more than a fan creation from a home-made codex.

Except that we've had people like Scryer and Harry of Warseer, some of the most reliable people when it comes to rumours about the hobby, have implied that the thing exists? Whether or not I'll eat crow in a month over this is besides the fact that this didn't just pop up in the fandex.

Not having seen the new BA sprues myself, I can't say what it portends. I would imagine it to be DC with options for Bolter or BP&CCW, and foot or JP.

Pulling the JPs in the tactical box makes room for more heads & shoulderpads & weapons.

I still think that it is plausible, given the skull focus of their iconography and the unique nature of the Death Company that they could get their own kit rather than just being a set of head swaps for standard BA bodies. Not saying that I think they will definitely get a kit but I wouldn't be surprised if they did.




[Edit - typo]

I am not good enough at painting black to be excited about a 30 man DC. Ok, that statement is a lie A 30 man assault squad with feel no pain and tons of power fists/weapons would rock

A 30 man assault squad with feel no pain and tons of power fists/weapons would rock

No.it.wouldn't. I mean cool if you play BA, but not for everyone else who will be shaking their heads... just the same when SW and then nids codex's came out. How could you counter that? (to me it screams cheese - BUT having said that i have absolutely no problem with others playing this way if that is their enjoyment - it's just not for me)

It would definately confirm some long-held thoughts on codex creep. Seems like the writers are trying to outdo each other...

If it does happen, i shall dearly look forward to that "hitler" video again... haha!

@snowman: you realize that those DC and JPs & PWs aren't free, right?

snowman40k wrote:

A 30 man assault squad with feel no pain and tons of power fists/weapons would rock

No.it.wouldn't. I mean cool if you play BA, but not for everyone else who will be shaking their heads... just the same when SW and then nids codex's came out. How could you counter that? (to me it screams cheese - BUT having said that i have absolutely no problem with others playing this way if that is their enjoyment - it's just not for me)

It would definately confirm some long-held thoughts on codex creep. Seems like the writers are trying to outdo each other...

If it does happen, i shall dearly look forward to that "hitler" video again... haha!

Battle Cannons? Demolisher Cannons? Land Raider tank shock into Flamestorm Cannon? Good ole' plasma? Forcing saves?

A unit that large is just begging to be abused from afar, if not in close combat.

snowman40k wrote:

A 30 man assault squad with feel no pain and tons of power fists/weapons would rock

No.it.wouldn't. I mean cool if you play BA, but not for everyone else who will be shaking their heads... just the same when SW and then nids codex's came out. How could you counter that? (to me it screams cheese - BUT having said that i have absolutely no problem with others playing this way if that is their enjoyment - it's just not for me)

It would definately confirm some long-held thoughts on codex creep. Seems like the writers are trying to outdo each other...

If it does happen, i shall dearly look forward to that "hitler" video again... haha!

30 man, t4. Whelp, since you don't get fnp from instakill wounds and they have no invulnerable saves.. Lets see..
Battlecanons.
Demolosher canons.
Manticores.
Plasmacanons.
Mawlacs.
Bloodcrushers.
Boneswords.
etc.

Or you could just fly away, it's not like 30 dudes can do anything but walk and scream.

I'll take my 30 dudes with jump packs and power fists spread out at max coherency against any or all of those things.

Seems like another wishlist item from someone or an interesting way to sell a new plastic kit.

Some of the rumors on Warseer seem to imply that the Death Company box will be the catch-all power armor kit, with the Sanguian Guard will be the 'exalted' unit we heard about. This is also being corroborated with the Dude, so who knows?

@bhsman, anything's possible, tho if I had my druthers, it'd have been nice if the DC were skull-themed to be more generally useful...

30 man, t4. Whelp, since you don't get fnp from instakill wounds and they have no invulnerable saves.. Lets see..
Battlecanons.
Demolosher canons.
Manticores.
Plasmacanons.
Mawlacs.
Bloodcrushers.
Boneswords.
etc.

Or you could just fly away, it's not like 30 dudes can do anything but walk and scream.

Plasmacannons? who has those these days? since everyone is spamming melta...as for the rest fine, fine, fine, fine and fine.

How could you counter that?

My bad, my point was not so much 'what can we do about it' for there will always be a counter-point to any one unit, but who wants to create armies to kill overpowered units in the firstplace?! (if said unit will even be in the final dex)

In fact, i think i'm wasting my breath on this whole argument. It'll turn into rock/paper/scissors otherwise...






Automatically Appended Next Post:
dammit... quote fail.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dammit... quote fail

Reply by: Waaagh_Gonads - click to view full reply 

116

Blood Angels Thread V.3 @ 2010/03/02 06:20:04

Post by: Waaagh_Gonads

I just hope they aren't changing the scheme yet again.

1st ed- red/orange with almost identical to UM squad markings
2nd ed- blood red with black shoulder pads
3rd ed- some blood red with black shoulder pad edging/ some red edging
4th ed - all blood red
5th ed- seems to be changing to mechrite red

Make up your damned minds....

Reply by: ShumaGorath - click to view full reply 

4869

Blood Angels Thread V.3 @ 2010/03/02 06:36:42

Post by: ShumaGorath

blood angel wrote:I'll take my 30 dudes with jump packs and power fists spread out at max coherency against any or all of those things.

Seems like another wishlist item from someone or an interesting way to sell a new plastic kit.

Well, if they stay at 30 points a piece that's 900 points. probably around 1200 after jump packs. 1300 with four power fists. That's gonna be a big expensive squad.

Reply by: JohnHwangDD - click to view full reply 

5421

Blood Angels Thread V.3 @ 2010/03/02 06:56:53

Post by: JohnHwangDD

snowman40k wrote:

Plasmacanons.

Plasmacannons? who has those these days?

I have at least 8 SM with Plasma Cannons, probably 10...

(GIGO quotes)

Reply by: ShumaGorath - click to view full reply 

4869

Blood Angels Thread V.3 @ 2010/03/02 06:58:52

Post by: ShumaGorath

You guys are bad at quote strings.

Reply by: snowman40k - click to view full reply 

24911

Blood Angels Thread V.3 @ 2010/03/02 08:04:44

Post by: snowman40k

I have at least 8 SM with Plasma Cannons, probably 10...

You, my friend... are a candle amidst the growing darkness... i applaud you! Sensational!

Reply by: Redemption - click to view full reply 

15829

Blood Angels Thread V.3 @ 2010/03/02 08:42:17

Post by: Redemption

bhsman wrote:Some of the rumors on Warseer seem to imply that the Death Company box will be the catch-all power armor kit, with the Sanguian Guard will be the 'exalted' unit we heard about. This is also being corroborated with the Dude, so who knows?

Well, it makes sense to me. If I think of Blood Angels, I think jump packs and ornate armour. If the Death Company is indeed the catch-all power armour kit with jump packs, than the Sanguinian Guard could be the ornate artificer armour with sculpted musculature we keep hearing about. If they also get the jump packs with stylised angel wings the metal characters have, I'm sure they'll make an appearance in my DIY chapter.

Reply by: sonofruss - click to view full reply 

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Blood Angels Thread V.3 @ 2010/03/02 10:46:33

Post by: sonofruss

I have loads of plasma cannons as well. They don't like me sometimes but I have them.

Reply by: warhammersupernerd - click to view full reply 

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Blood Angels Thread V.3 @ 2010/03/02 12:23:14

Post by: warhammersupernerd

Whilst i dont own a devestator squad i do have a lemman russ executioner with a plasma spam, so masses of plasma fire isnt hard to find.

Redemption wrote:
Plastic sets are:

Baal Predator

Death Company

Sanguinian Guard

What exactly the last one is, is not yet known. Probably something like the Space Wolves Pack; some upgrade sprues with bling to turn normal Space Marine sets into Blood Angels.

Strange set of models, but i suppose i cant think of anything else they could make a part from the upgrade kit, which may even just be a sprue. Any suggestions?

Reply by: bhsman - click to view full reply 

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Blood Angels Thread V.3 @ 2010/03/02 14:38:28

Post by: bhsman

Redemption wrote:Well, it makes sense to me. If I think of Blood Angels, I think jump packs and ornate armour. If the Death Company is indeed the catch-all power armour kit with jump packs, than the Sanguinian Guard could be the ornate artificer armour with sculpted musculature we keep hearing about. If they also get the jump packs with stylised angel wings the metal characters have, I'm sure they'll make an appearance in my DIY chapter.

With any luck they won't call it the "Death Company" kit, at least.

Reply by: Redemption - click to view full reply 

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Blood Angels Thread V.3 @ 2010/03/02 14:56:33

Post by: Redemption

bhsman wrote:With any luck they won't call it the "Death Company" kit, at least.

I think the box names are definite, though I agree that the name 'Death Company' doesn't really lend itself to being a generic chapter upgrade set, like 'Space Wolves Pack'. I guess we'll just have to wait and see untill the advance orders come up in a few weeks.

Reply by: bhsman - click to view full reply 

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Blood Angels Thread V.3 @ 2010/03/02 14:57:32

Post by: bhsman

Actually, word is that AO is supposed to start sometime this week or so.

Reply by: Redemption - click to view full reply 

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Blood Angels Thread V.3 @ 2010/03/02 15:09:26

Post by: Redemption

bhsman wrote:Actually, word is that AO is supposed to start sometime this week or so.

Hmm, suppose you could be right, the Battle Missions AO started about a month before release as well. Ah well, the sooner the better, right?

Reply by: 1hadhq - click to view full reply 

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Blood Angels Thread V.3 @ 2010/03/02 15:13:01

Post by: 1hadhq

Redemption wrote:

bhsman wrote:Actually, word is that AO is supposed to start sometime this week or so.

Hmm, suppose you could be right, the Battle Missions AO started about a month before release as well. Ah well, the sooner the better, right?

Sooner would be fine, but is there a release date yet ( to draw the AO from ) ?

Reply by: reds8n - click to view full reply 

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Blood Angels Thread V.3 @ 2010/03/02 15:14:08

Post by: reds8n

bhsman wrote:Actually, word is that AO is supposed to start sometime this week or so.

8th of March is the date doing the rounds... hmm..maybe..

Reply by: Redemption - click to view full reply 

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Blood Angels Thread V.3 @ 2010/03/02 15:21:35

Post by: Redemption

1hadhq wrote:Sooner would be fine, but is there a release date yet ( to draw the AO from ) ?

It's set to release for April, and they usualy release on the first Saturday of the month (bar delays from printing errors such as with the Tyranids), so that would be the 3rd of April.

reds8n wrote:8th of March is the date doing the rounds... hmm..maybe..

The Battle Missions AOs were on the 8th of Febuary, so could be possible. *crosses finger*

Reply by: reds8n - click to view full reply 

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Blood Angels Thread V.3 @ 2010/03/02 15:30:37

Post by: reds8n

And then everyone can go blind from all the bling on the new models winging their way towards us.

Reply by: gamefrreeck - click to view full reply 

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Blood Angels Thread V.3 @ 2010/03/02 15:37:19

Post by: gamefrreeck

I can't freaking wait for this month to be over, so that we can see what they are really doing. All the watting is making me nervous!!! Feel like blowing something up!!!!

Reply by: 1hadhq - click to view full reply 

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Blood Angels Thread V.3 @ 2010/03/02 15:42:55

Post by: 1hadhq

Redemption wrote:

1hadhq wrote:Sooner would be fine, but is there a release date yet ( to draw the AO from ) ?

It's set to release for April, and they usualy release on the first Saturday of the month (bar delays from printing errors such as with the Tyranids), so that would be the 3rd of April.

reds8n wrote:8th of March is the date doing the rounds... hmm..maybe..

The Battle Missions AOs were on the 8th of Febuary, so could be possible. *crosses finger*

Just thinking there is a GD in france in april.....so will they show anything beforehand?

But +1 pair of crossed fingers for 8th .

Reply by: bhsman - click to view full reply 

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Blood Angels Thread V.3 @ 2010/03/02 15:54:58

Post by: bhsman

reds8n wrote:

bhsman wrote:Actually, word is that AO is supposed to start sometime this week or so.

8th of March is the date doing the rounds... hmm..maybe..

Any chances of us seeing this stuff before then?

Reply by: Mad Doc Grotsnik - click to view full reply 

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Blood Angels Thread V.3 @ 2010/03/02 15:59:12

Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik

Should be Friday I'd imagine. Beastmen kicked off on a Friday I think?

Reply by: reds8n - click to view full reply 

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Blood Angels Thread V.3 @ 2010/03/02 15:59:50

Post by: reds8n

You never know...

If I had'em to share then I would. Honest.

Reply by: bhsman - click to view full reply 

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Blood Angels Thread V.3 @ 2010/03/02 16:06:43

Post by: bhsman

reds8n wrote: You never know...

If I had'em to share then I would. Honest.

Despite your be-horned appearance, I believe you.

It'll probably end up like the Tyranid release where we only saw pictures of the Trygon when it came up on the GW site.

Reply by: Death By Monkeys - click to view full reply 

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Blood Angels Thread V.3 @ 2010/03/02 23:09:07

Post by: Death By Monkeys

Latest word from The Voice on Warseer:

The Voice wrote:The Baal Predator will have the option for a Flamestorm Cannon.

Sounds like this may be turret mounted, though no confirmation on that yet.

Reply by: bhsman - click to view full reply 

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Blood Angels Thread V.3 @ 2010/03/02 23:10:09

Post by: bhsman

Having it replace the turret while keeping the option for Heavy Flamer sponsons seems to be the most probable outcome here.

Reply by: dietrich - click to view full reply 

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Blood Angels Thread V.3 @ 2010/03/02 23:14:33

Post by: dietrich

bhsman wrote:Having it replace the turret while keeping the option for Heavy Flamer sponsons seems to be the most probable outcome here.

Somewhere, Vulkan Hestan is weeping.

Reply by: bhsman - click to view full reply 

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Blood Angels Thread V.3 @ 2010/03/03 00:17:32

Post by: bhsman

dietrich wrote:Somewhere, Vulkan Hestan is weeping.

Tears of joy at such a marvel of engineering, you mean.

Also, courtesy of the Voice back at Warseer:

Heavy Flamers and Heavy Bolters, yes.

This is The Truth.

Sanguinary Guard look very similar to Sanguinor, with muscled armour, winged Jump Packs, haloed heads, two-handed weapons (three swords, two axes) and wrist-mounted Bolters. There are additional wrist mounted weapons of the Melta and Plasma variety and a lovely battle standard.

This is The Truth.

The first part refers to the Flamestorm Cannon being confirmed as a turret weapon with Heavy Flamers kept as sponsons, as I suspected. If the Sanguinary Guard are plastic, well, there goes the neighborhood.

Reply by: MajorTom11 - click to view full reply 

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Blood Angels Thread V.3 @ 2010/03/03 02:04:32

Post by: MajorTom11

Not sure about all the flamer news, seems like more a salamander theme. Same thing with all the jump packs, but then again I am old school and still think of BA mostly through Space Hulk and 2nd edition: The Red Years lol.

What I am hoping for is plenty of new armor and bits, especially in the form of an upgrade sprue... I already have 17 termies for Space Hulk the 6 not from the set are in the midst of a long conversion process, definitely wouldn't sneeze at a flood of new roman/greek style bits as opposed to Gothic!

Whichever of the rumours are true, I just hope they do something interesting and flavorful with them, it is a good oppurtunity to add some new design elements to the marine line, move away for the bones and chains theme a bit.

Reply by: JohnHwangDD - click to view full reply 

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Blood Angels Thread V.3 @ 2010/03/03 03:37:16

Post by: JohnHwangDD

So Sanguinary Guard are the muscle armor guys?

Nice to know, but probably won't be buying any. I suspect that those Greek muscle torsos will see a lot of play in DIY "pretty boy" Slannesh forces...

Reply by: bhsman - click to view full reply 

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Blood Angels Thread V.3 @ 2010/03/03 03:41:23

Post by: bhsman

No no no, Sanguinary Guard are the 'Phantom of the Opera' dudes.

The bits might make for some good Artificier Armor conversions, if anything.

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