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Post by: H.B.M.C.
So reds8n, what say you to this "The Lander doesn't exist!!!" chatter we're getting?
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Post by: Redemption
bhsman wrote:Also, courtesy of the Voice back at Warseer:
Heavy Flamers and Heavy Bolters, yes.
This is The Truth.
Sanguinary Guard look very similar to Sanguinor, with muscled armour, winged Jump Packs, haloed heads, two-handed weapons (three swords, two axes) and wrist-mounted Bolters. There are additional wrist mounted weapons of the Melta and Plasma variety and a lovely battle standard.
This is The Truth.
The first part refers to the Flamestorm Cannon being confirmed as a turret weapon with Heavy Flamers kept as sponsons, as I suspected. If the Sanguinary Guard are plastic, well, there goes the neighborhood.
I love it when a plan comes together! 
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Post by: reds8n
JohnHwangDD wrote:So Sanguinary Guard are the muscle armor guys?...
and then some.
Ball can indeed take the redeemer pattern flamer as a turret option AFAIK.
So reds8n, what say you to this "The Lander doesn't exist!!!" chatter we're getting?
 knows to be honest. Ages and ages ago I heard about something .. a "Storm Raven".. was what I heard, which would indeed be/fit this lander, the only place it could have fitted would be the BA IMO.
So in all honesty I'm 50/50 at the moment, sorry I can't be of more help.
I guess it's not impossible they might release the model in the future, have pulled it as not being viable, it might in fact be for another release -- if BT's and/or Grey Knights do roll out this year I guess it could fit with them maybe ?
Frankly there's some rather crazy rumours flying around/from GW at the moment, some of which, if true I hasten to add, had me face palming so hard I nearly knocked myself out.
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Post by: Redemption
reds8n wrote: knows to be honest. Ages and ages ago I heard about something .. a "Storm Raven".. was what I heard, which would indeed be/fit this lander, the only place it could have fitted would be the BA IMO.
So in all honesty I'm 50/50 at the moment, sorry I can't be of more help.
Hmm, that does match the cryptic rumours coming from Scryer in the Dark, who said it wasn't called a Storm Harbinger, but it was close. And ravens and crows are seen as harbingers in myth and folklore.
But unless they've managed to keep the model a very well kept secret, we can at least be sure there's no first wave model, even if it is actually in the new codex.
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Post by: Gargskull
reds8n wrote:Frankly there's some rather crazy rumours flying around/from GW at the moment, some of which, if true I hasten to add, had me face palming so hard I nearly knocked myself out.
More stupid stuff like marines on wolves you mean? 
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Post by: reds8n
No no, I meant more "New coke" level of WTFness.
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Post by: 1hadhq
reds8n wrote:
So reds8n, what say you to this "The Lander doesn't exist!!!" chatter we're getting?
knows to be honest. Ages and ages ago I heard about something .. a "Storm Raven".. was what I heard, which would indeed be/fit this lander, the only place it could have fitted would be the BA IMO.
So in all honesty I'm 50/50 at the moment, sorry I can't be of more help.
I guess it's not impossible they might release the model in the future, have pulled it as not being viable, it might in fact be for another release -- if BT's and/or Grey Knights do roll out this year I guess it could fit with them maybe ?
=> Storm eagle drop ship from IA 8 mayhaps?
Part of a list, the elysians of that list are already 'official' products of FW.
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Post by: reds8n
I don't think so the FW rumours coem from different people ..
.. and there's some crackin' FW stuff ahead  ..
...maybe the idea just didn't ..fly ?
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Post by: Redemption
reds8n wrote:...maybe the idea just didn't ..fly ?
Ouch, that pun must have hurt. :p
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Post by: 1hadhq
reds8n wrote: I don't think so the FW rumours come from different people ..
.. and there's some crackin' FW stuff ahead ..
...maybe the idea just didn't ..fly ?
 Adding to the confusion?
Has this changed:
Would prefer not 
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
reds8n wrote:No no, I meant more "New coke" level of WTFness.
Give us a good one, just for fun. 
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Post by: reds8n
... there's a whole load of models/kits being pulled at the moment, standard inventory cleaning methinks...
..but.... and I'll stress this is just a whisper, an echo so to speak, of a rumour going around...
..that the Beastman battalion will in fact be the last battalion/battleforce they do, with the others being removed as the stocks run out.
..seems an incredibly stupid thing to do to me....*obvious punchline here*
I'll say again for internet clarity I don't know how, if at all, true this is.. could be, for example, just an idea that was floated.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
It'd be nice if they told us which models were being pulled, so we could all buy them in a mad panic.
And if they are getting rid of BattleForces, it's because some bean counter suddenly went "Hey... they're saving money, aren't they?" and then after him and the other bean counters stopped writhing on the floor from the agony caused by the thought of less money, they decided to can them.
I'm close, aren't I?
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Post by: reds8n
.. funnily enough that's pretty much exactly my reaction when I heard this.
I'm not sure what's being pulled and what's being pushed to direct only.
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Post by: Redemption
I suppose seeing whether or not the Blood Angels will have a Battleforce could be an indication if there's some truth to that. The Space Wolves got one at least, so I'd expect BA to get one aswell.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
reds8n wrote:I'm not sure what's being pulled and what's being pushed to direct only.
Direct only I can live with - there's only so much shelf-space and at least 99% of it has to go to either Marines or Lord of the Rings. I'd just like them to, y'know, give us an indication of which models are taking their final curtain call. Y'know, if it's the Redemptionist or Enforcer models, I might buy a few more just to make sure I have spares. Ditto for the Inquisition stuff (Hereticus Inquisitor Ladies and the Throne of Judgement especially). I mean, I know GW tries their hardest to ensure we don't know what they're about to start selling (I guess they subscribe to the belief that if we know what they're going to do, that gives us power over them, like knowing a Daemon's true name), but they could at least tell us what they're about to stop selling.
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Post by: Kirasu
but the battleforces SAVE shelf space by reducing # of boxes by 4 to 1!!
I find it absurd the bean counters think that players buying in bulk < players thinking an army is too expensive and not buying at all.. Not like it takes much money to produce their models
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Post by: jspyd3rx
I know the one crazy thing that would make me face palm my self that I actually hurt myself would be another vanilla marine codex.
330
Post by: Mahu
Haha, like we haven't seen that complaint before.
I can actually see them dropping Battleforces. They have long stopped being any sort of bargain, and they are usually a mix match of models you may or may not need.
Their only purpose was to get new players started. But any decent retailer should know how to "guide" someone interested in the game.
I remember when I started (sometime right before the Deamonhunters Codex), and what got me into it was the Tau tanks. I remember looking at the Battleforces at the time and thinking they where too expensive, I just picked up a tank because it looked cool and seemed like a fun project. It was only later that I realized that this tank I bought had a codex attached to it.
So it is tough for me to buy the argument, especially in this economy, that a new customer will immediately buy the battleforce when they start. If anything, the trend I see is maybe a model kit or a blister.
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Post by: bhsman
Battleforce chat ITT
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Post by: BrassScorpion
Battleforces still offer a price break, but some are definitely better deals than others though that's been the case since they first standardized the prices at $90 US and then abandoned that about a year ago. The ones that are still less than $100 do seem to sell better than the ones now priced above the $95 mark. Even my 12-year-old son recently pointed out to me that the Battleforces don't seem to move like they did a while back. We used to see empty Battleforce shelf spots all the time at the store because they sold so quickly, but these days they just kind of sit there. GW has been tweaking a lot of prices lately and pushing the limits on what they think they can get for certain models. In some cases they guess correctly and a model sells well at a relatively high price (e.g., Valkyrie) while in other cases the volume of sales seems to be so low that they would clearly have been better off with a less aggressive price (e.g., Winged Nazgul, newer Battleforces, Greatswords). Sadly, they seem slow to react when a high price kills the sales of a new release to their detriment and that of their customers.
As for the Lander rumors, there seems to be enough behind the tales of this model for it to be real, but that doesn't mean the context surrounding it has been correct. It could be something for release further down the road if not directly released with the new Blood Angels Codex and GW sometimes takes a few years to release a model after it is finished. Patience may be required.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
BrassScorpion wrote:Sadly, they seem slow to react when a high price kills the sales of a new release to their detriment and that of their customers.
Like the SM Termies, GW simply lets that high price sit while they raise other prices around it. Eventually, the rest of the pricing catches up.
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Post by: Kanluwen
So, Sanguinary Guards...
Are the two handed swords going to be a separate bit that could be used, say, for units of Dark Angel Successor Chapter Terminators in lieu of Thunder Hammers?
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Post by: reds8n
Alas no.
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Post by: ubermosher
reds8n wrote:
.. and there's some crackin' FW stuff ahead ..
Sounds like a clue... crackin' -> thunder -> Thunderwolf cavalry?
/wishfulthinking
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Post by: reds8n
Yeah sorry.
AFAIK there are no plans for any T.wolf models by any section of GW any time soon.*shrugs*
AS one of my group is possibly about to start playing Space Wolves I'm actually quite chuffed about this.
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Post by: Kanluwen
reds8n wrote:Alas no.
spankers!
Any good ideas of 2hers I can find for that purpose? 
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Post by: reds8n
I don't think they'd even be that easy to snip off and convert... guess we'll find out on Monday anyway.
As to other weapons...Emperor's champion model maybe ? Or it might be worth having a look at the WFB range, maybe the chaos warrior upgrade bitz ? http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat1440007&rootCatGameStyle=
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Post by: FoxPhoenix135
So catch me up on all the Death company rumors... here is what I got so far (please correct me):
Unique Elites Choice (That doesn't take an elite slot?)
30-model squad? Sounds iffy, might have been from the viral fandex.
No more rending.
Lemartes as an Upgrade Character.
What kind of options are we looking at? I am going to miss my rending, but with Furious Charge and FnP, they'll still be a fairly decent assault unit. Did I sum up the rumors enough, or are there more to add for the DC?
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Post by: Kanluwen
No Greatswords, and axes would look kinda silly for the "Order of the Ascendant Blade" to be equipping their "Brotherhood of the Shattered Sword" with
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Post by: johnstewartjohn
Are the Sanguinary Guard metal then?
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
johnstewartjohn wrote:Are the Sanguinary Guard metal then?
Even if I won't be buying them, wow, I sure hope not.
With modern plastics technology, there's no excuse for not doing every forthcoming SM unit in plastic with extra bitz.
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Post by: Redemption
FoxPhoenix135 wrote:So catch me up on all the Death company rumors... here is what I got so far (please correct me):
Unique Elites Choice (That doesn't take an elite slot?)
30-model squad? Sounds iffy, might have been from the viral fandex.
No more rending.
Lemartes as an Upgrade Character.
What kind of options are we looking at? I am going to miss my rending, but with Furious Charge and FnP, they'll still be a fairly decent assault unit. Did I sum up the rumors enough, or are there more to add for the DC?
The 30 man squad and Lemartes tidbits have come from more recent rumours (whether or not they're more reliable is a different matter). The unique elite choice and no more rending are from the fandex I believe.
johnstewartjohn wrote:Are the Sanguinary Guard metal then?
No, it's a plastic set.
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Post by: bsohi
Can confirm it's a plastic set. Saw them today! And they come with wings! Plastic wings! They look gorgeous! Granted, it looked like the wings couldn't be put on with the assault jump packs.
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Post by: bhsman
Are the wings mechanical or did GW decide to vindicate every person to decided to glue Pegasus wings to the back of their Mephistons?
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Post by: Redemption
The Voice described them once as:
The Voice wrote:No, more like one side of a Jump Pack, centred on the back, with 2 large outstretched angelic wings attached on either side of it. The feathers of the wing are stylised, with pointed tips and no detail of the rachis or barbs.
Astorath, by comparison, has an almost identical Jump Pack (sans halo). The attached wings are not outspread, but pulled back with tips in, and have more rounded “feathers”.
This is The Truth
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Post by: bsohi
bhsman wrote:Are the wings mechanical or did GW decide to vindicate every person to decided to glue Pegasus wings to the back of their Mephistons?
They're half-and-half is the best way to put it. They have feathers, but the spine along the top of the wing seemed to have a little bit more of a mechanical look to it. I'm going off memory, as I was in the shop earlier today. But I honestly thing you will be vindicated in your choice of pegasus wings. The metal ridge along the top of the wings isn't that big, and the feathers looked like the pegasus wings on mephiston would be a good fit. Remember, mephiston would obviously have better wings than his guards, right?
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Post by: bhsman
^^^Do you mean to say that your store had the black box in? Was anyone taking pictures?
Sounds pretty nice, can't wait to see them myself.
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Post by: bsohi
Yeah, it had the black box in. I think I was the first to see it, as there was no one else in the store. The manager wouldn't let me take a look at the 'dex, but he let me look at the sprues. Lots of small details, and ALL PLASTIC! Blood Angels iconography in all sorts of cool, intricate details, from the hilts of swords, to loinclothes etc. I'll drop by again and see if I can sneak a few photo's in the next few days~
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Post by: The Watcher in the Dark
As awesome as those wings sound I'm slightly more interested in the weapon options. Relic blades/chapter non-specific lightning claws/thunder hammer/(dare I say it) wrist-mounted power armour Storm Bolters...?
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Post by: bsohi
To be entirely honest, I was in quite a bit of a rush, so I didn't get to spend as much time as I would have wanted too looking at the sprues, and the manager was working on a sprue as well. But from what I did see, the standard swords, I think I saw a power fist. I make no statements on thunder hammers and lightning claws, because I don't remember seeing that. I'm pretty sure that it was all blood angel specific though. Also, the sprues came with bolters, or bolter/ccw combo. Also had the melta-pistol thing, forgot what it's called.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
It's amazing how the first person to see a new sprue or Codex always has a bad memory.
No offense, bsohi
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Post by: The Watcher in the Dark
Hopefully it won't be too much effort to remove blood drops. At least it should be easier than trying to take off an entire wolf's head.
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Post by: bsohi
You're in for a lot of filing then. Lots of little grails on the end of ropes, blood drop iconography etc!
@blackfang. Lol! Yeah, I guess the excitement of being the first to see it just makes people rush through it all.
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Post by: bsohi
Oh! Forgot to add, just hit me now! The blackshirt told me that the points cost for a decently kitted up squad of the guard are 305.
Also, he mentioned an ability where one sargeant in the army is nominated to have +1 to bs, ws and attacks, and all models within 6" of him get +1 attack.
I never got to read this myself, so take with grain of salt!
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Post by: Scarella
so came from the GYM and visited the local GW on the way back and they had their black box... in it... the BA codex, Sanguinary Guard, Death Company Sprues... and some metal vet sgt guy...
ok you BA players better save up your money cuz the dex and figs are awesome:
Points of note:
1. The leaked .pdf is not the codex
2. No new figs for Dante, Mephiston, Corbulo, and Tycho...
3. New Special figs for Astorath, Sanguinior, Seth, Lemartes
4. Astorath is a crazy fiend if you want your army to go ape and suffer red thirst on a 3+... he looks like a dark evil angel. with long black hair, black wings, red armor like the Dracula guy from the movie... and a large Axe held overhead 2-handed
5. Sanguinior is a ***pt beast.... WS8 ST5 T4 Atk5 2+save, 3+ invul... 2-handed master crafted power sword of something encarmine, nominate an enemy HQ then you get rerolls with all Sanguinior's Hit and wound rolls towards that guy... he grants powers to one SGT. in the game ie., +1 attack etc., and units within 6' get +1 attack except for him... the BEST NEW MODEL in the range... looks like the living saint on steroids... think Michaelangelo angel with wings out-stretched and soaring to the heavens... and he's held aloft thru parchment... he's got a nice sword in one hand and a grail in the other... he led a 12 man squad to assault a CSM battle barge and fought their way to the bridge and killed the Chaos Lord dude there... was pure nasty...
6. The codex is written by Matthew Ward, same guy who did the Space Marine Dex...
7. Stormraven... ok it's got ar 12 12 10, is a skimmer, twin-assault, twin-Hvy bolter, 4 blood strike missiles... Range 72' Str 8, Ap1, forgot if it was blast, probably was... here's the PAIN.... carries 12 marines... Assault Vehicle... and it CAN carry 1 Dreadnought as well... it can deploy models even if it goes flat out however they suffer dangerous terrain stuff... BAD NEWS... there's no pic of it anywhere in the dex... might be a second wave... but hey it CARRIES A DREAD & 12 Marines!!!! how big will this thing be....
8. The models are gorgeous... omg they had the Sanguinary Guard, pretty much Angel wings assault marines, but the detail is pure OMFG!!! there's tear-drops under the soles of the feet, think the dude Maximus fought in Gladiator with the metal mask and you're not too far off... just pure awesome!!! it's a huge leap from the marines and more even from the space wolves... BLING BLING!!! Also the Death Company can have super weapons, ie. thunderhammers, power weapons, melta pistols... pure awesome kit... all the red X bands are modeled on the figs... even on the handguards... and the Banner that comes with the sanquinary guard is sooooooooooooooo nice! it's the old pic of Sanguinius holding the grail in one hand and sword in the other but in relief...
9. For every 5 Deathcompany you can take 1 furious Dread as a TROOP!!! we counted it up so max 11 dreads... 3 elite librarian ones, 3 Hvy support ones, 5 Troop ones so OMFG... you won't have much else...
10. Hmm, the Baal has the option for a Flamestorm cannon on the turret... ugh...
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Post by: Hulksmash
If your not bsing I love you. If you are bsing we'll know and find you
Oh and I would be on it being 12 marines or 1 dread. Not both together as nothing in the game outside of apoc can do this.
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Post by: Scarella
Pretty sure it said and not or... will check on it more soon, but it is indeed an assault vehicle... the fluff behind it is the usual 'shrouded in mystery' stuff with reports of grey knights using them earlier, whether or not that opens the door for them to be used by other chapters is unknown... but having the book in hand for a bit did result in a sudden bloodrush lol, will confirm more rules later 
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Post by: The Crippler
Oh my... the flyer exists. I had convinced myself it was purely the product of the interwebz speculation. If it is in the book, it simply HAS to have a model made for it. Has to. A model that I would buy this very minute if it was so offered to me.
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Post by: Scarella
Unfortunately, there's no artwork nor pic of the elusive StormRaven... it was the first thing I looked for in the dex, then the pretty colored pics just took over...
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Post by: MajorTom11
Lol, GW doesn't always cater to what their customers would actually pay for lol
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Post by: The Crippler
So, the first question going through my mind is ... do I stick stubby wings on my Crusader and say "Ta DA!" or wait till the sweet plastic kit releases? Decisions!
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Post by: Kingsley
Scarella wrote:Unfortunately, there's no artwork nor pic of the elusive StormRaven... it was the first thing I looked for in the dex, then the pretty colored pics just took over...
Hmm. Doesn't every new Codex have an picture-- even if it's just a drawing-- of every unit? I'm a little suspicious of this.
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Post by: Manimal
Is the stormraven a fast skimmer?
Are assualt marines still troops?
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
JohnHwangDD wrote:With modern plastics technology, there's no excuse for not doing every forthcoming SM unit in plastic with extra bitz.
Except for design, machining, the cost of plastic moulds, inventory, how many people need vs cost price vs profit on money invested.
But yeah, other than those minor things, there's simply no reason to ever release a Marine model in metal ever again. Ever.
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Post by: Death By Monkeys
New post from The Voice on Warseer in response to bsohi's post here:
The Voice wrote:bsohi wrote:Granted, it looked like the wings couldn't be put on with the assault jump packs.
This is incorrect. The wings are integral to the jump packs, as I have previously described.
They're half-and-half is the best way to put it. They have feathers, but the spine along the top of the wing seemed to have a little bit more of a mechanical look to it. I'm going off memory, as I was in the shop earlier today. But I honestly thing you will be vindicated in your choice of pegasus wings. The metal ridge along the top of the wings isn't that big, and the feathers looked like the pegasus wings on mephiston would be a good fit. Remember, mephiston would obviously have better wings than his guards, right?
The wings of the Sanguinary Guard are no more detailed than Sanguinor or Astorath. They are in the same position as Astorath’s, with Sanguinor’s more outstretched. The “spine” that looks “mechanical” could be referring to the pipes on the jump pack, which are attached to the wing.
This is The Truth.
bsohi wrote: Lots of small details, and ALL PLASTIC! Blood Angels iconography in all sorts of cool, intricate details, from the hilts of swords, to loinclothes etc.
The Sanguinary Guard only have one loincloth, which is actually attached to one of the torsos.
The Death Company box has two, which I believe someone has already mentioned.
None of these loincloths have Blood Angel specific details on them.
This is The Truth.
bsohi wrote: But from what I did see, the standard swords, I think I saw a power fist. I make no statements on thunder hammers and lightning claws, because I don't remember seeing that. I'm pretty sure that it was all blood angel specific though. Also, the sprues came with bolters, or bolter/ccw combo. Also had the melta-pistol thing, forgot what it's called.
If this poster is talking about the Death Company sprue, this is correct. I gave a full listing of the parts some time ago. As I mentioned then, there is a Power Fist and Thunder Hammer on the sprue but no Lightning Claws.
As to the Sanguinary Guard, contents are as follows:
5x legs (look like Dante/Tycho)
5x torso fronts (all muscled, no belts)
5x toros backs
5x winged Jump Packs (5 parts each)
5x left arms with wrist mounted Bolters
1x left arm with wrist mounted Plasma Gun
1x left arm with wrist mounted Melta Gun
3x 2-handed swords
2x 2-handed axes (1 double headed)
15x shoulder pads
1x large standard with winged grail icon on top
Multiple heads of different types such as with haloes and laurels
Other small bits like hands for the left arms
This is The Truth.
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Post by: Scarella
Fetterkey wrote:Scarella wrote:Unfortunately, there's no artwork nor pic of the elusive StormRaven... it was the first thing I looked for in the dex, then the pretty colored pics just took over...
Hmm. Doesn't every new Codex have an picture-- even if it's just a drawing-- of every unit? I'm a little suspicious of this.
yeah we all looked at every pic and artwork for that darn thing but nope... no go...
every rhino variant having fast is true so vindicators with fast are outright scary as are Baal Predators with both fast and scout... yeepers
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Post by: Gornall
ALL of their vehicles are fast? I'm raising a HUGE BS flag on this one.
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Post by: Manimal
Why would you raise a ballistic skill flag? Or is it a Barbed Strangler flag?
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Post by: FoxPhoenix135
Well, I assume they are fast with the Baal Overcharged Engines rule, which means they can stall out.
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Post by: Gornall
FoxPhoenix135 wrote:Well, I assume they are fast with the Baal Overcharged Engines rule, which means they can stall out.
Maybe that's what he meant. Dunno, though. I'm still somewhat dubious of the "there's no art" claim too.
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Post by: Scarella
Gornall wrote:FoxPhoenix135 wrote:Well, I assume they are fast with the Baal Overcharged Engines rule, which means they can stall out.
Maybe that's what he meant. Dunno, though. I'm still somewhat dubious of the "there's no art" claim too.
lol up to you guys... my 2nd trip to the GW store... only the rhino variants have fast that means Baals, vindicators and the like... btw, the Baal has scout as well, come release could all the guys who cried BS pls be ready for a huge "i told ya so"
just go to your local store that gets a pre-release black box and you'll see so
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Post by: Gornall
Fast or Overcharged Engines?
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Post by: Scarella
Gornall wrote:Fast or Overcharged Engines?
just fast... sad yet true... they cost more though
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Post by: Gornall
Sorry... not biting. I could see more expensive Rhinos with Fast (maybe even Baal Preds), but not Fast Vindicators.
Feel free to say "I told you so." if I'm wrong, but I'm still not buying it unless there is something else you're not saying.
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Post by: jabbakahut
Fetterkey wrote:Scarella wrote:Unfortunately, there's no artwork nor pic of the elusive StormRaven... it was the first thing I looked for in the dex, then the pretty colored pics just took over...
Hmm. Doesn't every new Codex have an picture-- even if it's just a drawing-- of every unit? I'm a little suspicious of this.
QFT However, I do believe we will see a Thunderhawk this year, I think the assult style of BA would be perfect for such a release, but normally they would hype such a release, but again with the possibility that they released a fake codex... Maybe they are that sly...?
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Post by: Scarella
okies... i'll post a pic of me with the dex tom... stay tuned
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Post by: Gornall
Scarella wrote:okies... i'll post a pic of me with the dex tom... stay tuned
If you're gonna do that, at least get some of the good details...
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Post by: Manimal
How about a break down of the force org chart?
What are the troop options, elite options, fast attack, etc ..
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Post by: Scarella
Gornall wrote:Scarella wrote:okies... i'll post a pic of me with the dex tom... stay tuned
If you're gonna do that, at least get some of the good details...
erm, that's all the shop will perhaps let me get away with, taking pics of the pages is a no-no, and it is a GW store we are talking about... but frankly just wait till the release if you need to see for yourselves... I was definitely disappointed there was no pic of the Storm Raven...
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Apparently, OCE makes a tank Fast. Simple and elegant.
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Post by: Jackmojo
Scarella wrote:
erm, that's all the shop will perhaps let me get away with, taking pics of the pages is a no-no, and it is a GW store we are talking about... but frankly just wait till the release if you need to see for yourselves... I was definitely disappointed there was no pic of the Storm Raven...
Hey all we need to sing your hosannas across the internets is a cell phone pic of the codex cover or something to that effect. Preferably with something semi distinct in the frame.
Jack
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Post by: FoxPhoenix135
So just the rhino variants get the fast rule? What do land raiders get?
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Post by: Jackmojo
With the Machine Spirit they need the upgrade less, as they can keep pace with fast vehicles for the most part (i.e. both can move 12 inches and shoot one weapon).
Jack
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Post by: Scarella
FoxPhoenix135 wrote:So just the rhino variants get the fast rule? What do land raiders get?
The land raiders are listed under dedicated transports now... insane isn't it
Stay tuned for more news and possibly pics tom folks...
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
Redemption wrote:I'm afraid the codex you're reading is pretty much guaranteed to be the fandex circling the web for a while.
In light of the most recent actual Codex sightings (along with GW's action at WarSeer), it's pretty obvious that the PDF Codex in now confirmed (as I surmised) ) as an official GW playtest Codex in near-final form from a rules standpoint.
Can someone in possession of the playtest Codex give us the differences between it and the actual Codex?
Inquiring minds want to know!
12914
Post by: FoxPhoenix135
Land Raiders as Dedicated Transpo? Oh sweet heaven!
8944
Post by: Jackmojo
With all the sweet stuff they moved to Heavy support it practically needs to be...but its high point cost will still keep it in limited quantity in any case.
But it will be nice to field a Lucifer Armoured Strike force as a legal 40k army
Jack
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
It's pretty much the only way LRs get taken anyways...
When was the last time you saw LRs taken as a full Heavy slot?
And besides, at full SM prices (due to PotMS bumping the cost), and competing with dirt cheap Fast Rhinos or Fast Skimmer Transports, I'm not really worried about BA LR spam being a huge problem.
The only real question is whether BA Rhinos will get Assault Launchers of some form.
21
Post by: blood angel
I wish we had some pics so me sitting here pleasuring myself to these rumors would be a little more justified.
24314
Post by: gamefrreeck
Holy crap, I'm so excited! I want to buy now, buy now. That's sucks that only. Gamesworkshop stores get the black box. I have a store, in whittier and I only sell gamesworshop. But I don't get black boxes. I wish I could, I have a blood angels army, I'm going nuts here can't wait!!
22480
Post by: Dravenguild
Shameless GW is shameless, when will it end? I'm upset about this Lander thing, as if it wasn't bad enough this IG guy I play brings 3 vendetta to a 1,000 point game I'm going to have to worry about these f'ing things dropping guys all over the place. That and fast vindicators.
I'm going to sit this out until my Chaos codex gets something right.
But all luck to Blood Angels players, because if this is lander thing is coming just imagine the skimmers DE will have: FA 13 SA 12 BA 11, 5 twin linked dark lances and 30 splinter rifle fire points.
Oh how I will rue the day.
21
Post by: blood angel
Sounds like the 30 man squad of Death Company is true too.
Even if they are 30 or 40 pnts each it will be fun to play with.
Some guy who beefs near by units and a 30 man DC.. yeah.. i'll have fun with that.
Might just be a few points left over to run some fast rhinos as moving cover.
1317
Post by: Scarella
DC can't score though... and the Raven Storm is under Heavy Support strange as it may seem.
22480
Post by: Dravenguild
What else is it competing with?
Fast scouting Baal preds
Fast Vindicators
Did they even include the whirlwind?
Devastators, probably got some longfang treatment.
This lander can be powerful, while not game breaking it will be really annoying.
anything else? Is it fast at all?
1317
Post by: Scarella
The fast scouting scouting Baals are under FA now.
Heavy Support I recall are Dreadnoughts, Devastators, Raven Storm, Whirlwind, Vindicator. I'll confirm tom if there are Thunderfire cannons or other units listed under Heavy Support.
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Post by: Redemption
JohnHwangDD wrote:Redemption wrote:I'm afraid the codex you're reading is pretty much guaranteed to be the fandex circling the web for a while.
In light of the most recent actual Codex sightings (along with GW's action at WarSeer), it's pretty obvious that the PDF Codex in now confirmed (as I surmised) ) as an official GW playtest Codex in near-final form from a rules standpoint.
Can someone in possession of the playtest Codex give us the differences between it and the actual Codex?
Inquiring minds want to know!
Nah, the PDF is very different to the current rumours. No Sanguinairy Guard, no Hand Flamers, no Flamestom Cannon turret, no wrist mounted weapons, Librarian and regular Dreadnoughts in different FoC slots, wrong name on the lander and wrong loadout and FoC slot, Landraider in different FoC slot, Baal Pred in different FoC slot with different weapon options and no scout, ect, ect...
Not to mention, the author of the fandex has actually said it was one. :p
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Post by: reds8n
..Stormraven eh ? 
Ha.
If you get the chance try and dig up how the hand flamers work will you please.
I can only concur with regards as to the beauty of the character models, first glimpse of Astorath had me sold.
1317
Post by: Scarella
IIRC the hand flamers were Str 3 Ap6, flamer... but I'll check tom... since I'll take my turn at making a list with the new models
5394
Post by: reds8n
They still get the template ?!
Bugger..that's cost me a pint then.
15829
Post by: Redemption
Do hand flamers count as pistols? In other words, do you get the bonus attack if you wield it with another close combat weapon?
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Post by: Kingsley
I think that's largely the point, otherwise why wouldn't you just take a combi-flamer?
8944
Post by: Jackmojo
Its nice to see squad support weapons that won't inhibit the function of the Assault Troops, although it is rather disappointing that it ends up inferior to the normal Flamer (especially when other marines [Grey hunters and CSM] get pistol, flamer, combat blade as an option).
So long as there not one shot weapons like combi's I won't complain too much though.
Jack
21
Post by: blood angel
str 3 is no big deal and it's a lot better than nothing or losing an attack in hth.
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Post by: reds8n
From B & C via Warseer
The following rumours have been forwarded to me - The source seems trustworthy and seems to echo much of which has been said on Dakka:
Almost all BA units have RED THIRST rule. "After deployment roll d6 for each unit, any that roll a 1 exchange combat tactics for furious charge and fearless"
HQ
Mephiston, Cost of landraider, ws 7, bs 5, str 6, t 6, init 7, attack 5, ld 10, 5 wounds, sv 2+
3 psy powers per turn, psy hood, frag krak, plas pistol force weapon
Corbulo is in. Same profile. Red grail gives FNP and furious charge win 6 inches. Corbulo has a str 5 rending chanin sword. He also has FNP on a 2+
Sanguinor : Literally an angel who mysteriously appears to kick ass. Best sculpt of any GW model ever. So amazing I cant describe. has ws 8, str 5 t 5, (i think he had a 2 handed str 6 power sword), forces successful invulns in close combat to be rerolled. has "Blessing of Sanginor" [randomly pick 1 sgt in your army, he has +1 to WS, attack, init, ld, str and wound]
Fleash Tearars master Seth : Captain stat line. Has a str 8 rending chainsword. Causes all units with red thirst to get it on a 1,2,3. Sother cool stuff I cant remember.
Astorath the grim is there. Hes an uber chaplain pretty much. If hes with the death company they can reroll hits and wounds.
Troops
Tac Squads : same as codex but add red thirst
Rhinos : 50 points, same as normal but add "Fast"
Assault squads : Same as normal (cant remember about if they get meltaguns), but have read thirst and a special rule that they may re-roll reserve rolls, and they only scattter d6 not 2d6
Death Company : Furious charge, fearless, relentless, uber-grit, FNP, max squad size = 30, 0-1 choice. Lemartes is an upgrade character for 3attackbikes worth of points. New sculpt for lemartes, is bad ass. Can take power weapons and fists
Elite
Dreads : Libby is a one attack bikes worth of points upgrade for dreads, furioso annd venerable dreads as standard.
Sternguard, as standard
FA
Vanguard, can take a exsanginator.
Exalted squad : They are not called exalted, but pretty much the same idea. The sculpts are RAD (ive held the sprue too, your gonna freak at the wings and awesome ab and sword armour. Mind you it might just be the upgrade sprue I had]
They have 12" str 4 ap 4 assault 2 weapons. Master crafted power weapons. Damn I cant remember the rest....
Heavy
Ball Preadator : same as now except, has Fast, scout and can mount a flame storm cannon. 115 points base.
Storm Harbinger : Yes its here and yes its bad ass! [no pictures in the dex of it though]
Stats: 50points cheaper than a landraider.. 12/12/12 bs 4
Weapons : TL heavy bolter, TL assault cannon, 4 Vengance missles [72", s 8 ap 1, 1 use]
Rules : Skimmer, fast, assault ramps, [forget the name but a rule that lets assault marines jump out during a flat out move like the valkarie, except that they dont take dangerous terrain tests]
Transport : 1 dreadnought AND one unit of 12 or less. [yes thats right it transports 2 units]
PSY powers
Quickening : as normal
Wings of sanguinious : As normal
[forgot the name] : This power rocks. Draw a line of length 4d6 inches from the psycher. Ignore friendly models. Enemy models take a single str 8 ap 1 lance hit.
[forgot the name] : units in 6 inches get a 5+ cover save
Dante gives his squad "hit and run". In addition he picks an enemy independent character before deployment, that character has -1 to all stats, more or less.
Oh yeah just remembered this one, its weird but cool. Dreads can get this thing called a "Blood Fist" if i remember right. After shooting at a vehicle you roll d6 and add 8. If you exceed the armour of the vehicle you can move the vehcile 2d6 inches closer to the dread!
(*** May be the libby ability)
I forgot to look at the BA special weapons, but I do remember the profile had a lot of stuff in it, so I believe specials are in there.
There are no mad max scouts.
I know the Baal is fast for sure, I dont think the others are though. (***)
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Post by: Redemption
If that's true, awesomesauce.
19529
Post by: warhammersupernerd
Sounds like pure AWSOMENESS INCARNATE!!!! I might have a peek in my local GW when i get a chance.
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Post by: Pyriel-
Mephiston, Cost of landraider, ws 7, bs 5, str 6, t 6, init 7, attack 5, ld 10, 5 wounds, sv 2+
3 psy powers per turn, psy hood, frag krak, plas pistol force weapon
Tigurius is the most powerful astartes psyker in the imperium my ass!
Talk about GW typo.
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Post by: Nosferatu
Most of this does sound cool but it also sounds a little OT. Hopefully the points costs of these units have been adjusted accordingly. I wonder what Raven Guard players think about BA getting Assault Squads that Re-roll reserves and don't scatter as far
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Post by: Redemption
Nosferatu wrote:I wonder what Raven Guard players think about BA getting Assault Squads that Re-roll reserves and don't scatter as far
That they should use their Raven Guard as counts as Blood Angels?
22414
Post by: RaegMachine
 nuff said.
6838
Post by: 1hadhq
Nosferatu wrote: I wonder what Raven Guard players think about BA getting Assault Squads that Re-roll reserves and don't scatter as far
They think they got a second ( or primary ) codex
19529
Post by: warhammersupernerd
Nosferatu wrote: I wonder what Raven Guard players think about BA getting Assault Squads that Re-roll reserves and don't scatter as far
If they feel devo, they should combine the 2 and make.... blood ravens?? Actually, I'm happier if they just feel devo
25699
Post by: The Watcher in the Dark
The Voice wrote:
5x legs (look like Dante/Tycho)
5x torso fronts (all muscled, no belts)
This is The Truth.
I bet these would make for some awesome Slannesh Chosen
483
Post by: Morticon
Gonna be awesome stuff methinks!
3330
Post by: Kirasu
So if these are true then finally mephiston is the badass hes supposed to be
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Post by: bhsman
RaegMachine wrote: nuff said.
Fixed. Nobody should be allowed to cry cheese until we see the costs for everything.
EDIT: Also don't quote quotes that are longer than your own post goddamn
3352
Post by: Jaric
I'm unimpressed. Assume the leaked PDF was an early playtest. They took great ideas and watered them down. That red thirst rule is garbage compared to the one in the PDF. Also at that cost the harbringer is too much to ne functional. Blech.
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Post by: skipmcne
Jaric wrote:I'm unimpressed. Assume the leaked PDF was an early playtest. They took great ideas and watered them down. That red thirst rule is garbage compared to the one in the PDF. Also at that cost the harbringer is too much to ne functional. Blech.
Except it wasn't ... it was a Fan-Dex. The creator Fessed up. Released a second version, called it a HOAX. THERE WAS NO LEAKED EARLY PLAYTEST PDF.
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Post by: jspyd3rx
That was a pretty good fan dex though. Crazy over powered brokeness of the GW kind. Many believed it, including me. If any of these rumours hold any truth; then my Raven Guard have a new dex for sure.
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Post by: bhsman
Scarella please come back to us; come back to us and tell me that the Red Thirst rule isn't as stupid as it sounds...
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Post by: gamefrreeck
Freaking A, Im going to love my blood angels more then ever. Can wait to find out the actual point cost, usually have 1500 to 2000 point games. Wonder what Im going to be able to field with that much. Oh and if the 30 man dc is true. The guys are never going to play me again lol!!!
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Post by: warboss
so every dread can upgrade to become scorpion from mortal combat? GET OVER HERE!
483
Post by: Morticon
gamefrreeck wrote:Freaking A, Im going to love my blood angels more then ever. Can wait to find out the actual point cost, usually have 1500 to 2000 point games. Wonder what Im going to be able to field with that much. Oh and if the 30 man dc is true. The guys are never going to play me again lol!!!
I posted this on BnC, but ill repost here too.
I think (personally) that its one of the most accurate rules representation of long standing BA fluff there has been to date.
2nd ed - nothing to really indicate that dark side beyond the DC.
3rd ed - we suddenly got angry enough to run away from our positions sometimes, yet were always angry enough to get FC.
4th ed- no longer angry at all - unless nearby Corbs.
Now, we have accurate portrayal of BA as struggling, tormented heroes. Soldiers trying to maintain their codex adherence - a BA fluff point since forever, but inadvertently failing in some situations.
Im SUPER stoked with the idea ><; but again, maybe only because it speaks to my personal view of the BA. Some people will hate, some people wont - but beyond the rule dynamic theres a concept that I think Matt Ward has hit the nail on the head with - and ironically enough, this may be because of his association and fondness for the Ultras.
Its like hes taken the working point of BA as "How do I represent this Chapter as struggling to be codex adherent along with its associated flaws and idiosyncrasies?".
Before every BA player worth his salt used Corbs to guarantee a very big FC bubble. That bubble to guarantee FC has now been reduced by 6" to start. And only some of the units you have will get FC - most of the time they will have combat tactics. This influences list design hugely too. I see nothing overpowered about that particular set of rules, but it is very early to make any assumptions just yet.
Roll on April.
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Post by: bhsman
The pdf was more accurate honestly, because you tested for Furious Charge on a Ld test rather than just a d6.
EDIT: Hell, this makes for situations where a Devestator squad would have Furious Charge and your kitted-out veteran assault squad doesn't. What. The. Floo.
483
Post by: Morticon
bhsman wrote:The pdf was more accurate honestly, because you tested for Furious Charge on a Ld test rather than just a d6.
EDIT: Hell, this makes for situations where a Devestator squad would have Furious Charge and your kitted-out veteran assault squad doesn't. What. The. Floo.
Agreed with you there, regarding the fake pdf. It was very well written in that regard. Made much more sense. I should have said the best "official" rules.
As for the comment about the Devs. Yup. The BA dont get to choose when their rage takes them. They dont get to choose when they see visions and start to fall. I think that as a game dynamic - yup - its a bit pants since it not as "ideal" as far as efficiency goes.
But, thats part of the history and fluff behind the BA and makes for much more interesting and fluffy gaming.
If we want to ensure FC in our lists then stick Corbs and Seth in!! No worries then.
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Post by: bhsman
If I wanted a random army, I'd go with Orkz. Not to mention your solution to the problem is to take two special characters; we're right back where we started with the White Dwarf codex.
EDIT: Hell, Orkz get Furious Charge base at the very least. Maybe Orkz are now a better representation of Blood Angel rules?
25699
Post by: The Watcher in the Dark
bhsman wrote:Hell, this makes for situations where a Devestator squad would have Furious Charge and your kitted-out veteran assault squad doesn't. What. The. Floo.
I agree with Morticon, it doesn't make for the most ideal situation in every game but it is a really good representation of the fluff. Plus you can't always have rules that provide advantages without having weaknesses or drawbacks otherwise every new list would indeed be the most powerful list yet as every new rule introduced serves only to be an advantage. Of course it does also make the game a bit more interesting when out of the blue those Devs you were preparing to charge with your infiltrating genestealers charge you first and do some serious damage...
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Post by: warboss
i prefer testing for rage every round instead... less record keeping. now we'll just have people forgetting which units have tactics and which have rage.
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Post by: cerebaton
Oh man, oh man, I'm going to die if I don't see some model pics soonly!
I suspect that if the Stormraven's fluff is that it's a secret/little known vehicle then it may be an updated version of the pre-Heresy Stormbird landers as depicted in the Horus Heresy novels.
17155
Post by: bhsman
The Watcher in the Dark wrote:I agree with Morticon, it doesn't make for the most ideal situation in every game but it is a really good representation of the fluff. Plus you can't always have rules that provide advantages without having weaknesses or drawbacks otherwise every new list would indeed be the most powerful list yet as every new rule introduced serves only to be an advantage. Of course it does also make the game a bit more interesting when out of the blue those Devs you were preparing to charge with your infiltrating genestealers charge you first and do some serious damage...
I never thought I'd seriously complain about this, but what about Space Wolves getting CA and AS? Granted they have more subtle drawbacks, but Furious Charge has been a mainstay of Blood Angels for awhile to make it like this. Why not just make like Blood Claws? That's why part of me is doubting these new rules; it's too similar to how the 3rd edition codex worked. Also stuff like Vanguard but no Honor Guard.
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
Almost all BA units have RED THIRST rule. "After deployment roll d6 for each unit, any that roll a 1 exchange combat tactics for furious charge and fearless"
What about Reserves?
25699
Post by: The Watcher in the Dark
Doesn't say only deployed units, just that you do it after deployment
10276
Post by: GitSmack
Hmm. Bit of a bummer that the Red Thirst rule isn't Leadership based (an opportunity to get some more mileage out of a somewhat under-used stat that is only there to represent the psychology of your troops on the battlefield...), but otherwise, it is an interesting mechanic to represent the unpredictable nature of the Blood Angels' curse.
Looks like I'll be making some little blood drop chits to put next to units to help with book-keeping...
This codex just can't hit the shelves soon enough.
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Post by: bhsman
Or a 25mm base with a big red "x" on it, covered with a skull? Set it next to the unit and move it with them.
24314
Post by: gamefrreeck
This still sounds awesome. Yes, its not perfect, and yes there has to be some drawbacks in every army. But as far as I can see its better then what we had. I feel that if I was using another army right about now ill be craping in my pants. Cause this is just awesome!!
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Post by: gorgon
reds8n wrote: I don't think so the FW rumours coem from different people ..
.. and there's some crackin' FW stuff ahead ..
I'm hoping that AM is in the pipeline as rumored. 'Tho I'll have to take out a second mortgage if that's the case.
Back on topic, this is shaping up to be another nice release. Looks like I'm gonna see a lot of furious charging in the near future, since a buddy of mine plays FT.
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Post by: Alpharius
Redemption wrote:Nosferatu wrote:I wonder what Raven Guard players think about BA getting Assault Squads that Re-roll reserves and don't scatter as far
That they should use their Raven Guard as counts as Blood Angels?
Ha! I fell behind on this thread a bit, so I was surprised to see all of the ' de-bunked' stuff now being confirmed as in!
So, I really do think that I have found a good 'counts as' codex for my Raven Guard force!
cerebaton wrote:Oh man, oh man, I'm going to die if I don't see some model pics soonly!
I suspect that if the Stormraven's fluff is that it's a secret/little known vehicle then it may be an updated version of the pre-Heresy Stormbird landers as depicted in the Horus Heresy novels.
Maybe, and I say maybe because 'back in the day', the Stormbird was a pretty big vehicle, maybe even a bit bigger than a Thunderhawk...
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Post by: skipmcne
Alpharius wrote:
So, I really do think that I have found a good 'counts as' codex for my Raven Guard force!
My guess, based soley on the gnashing of teeth, and rending of hair I'm hearing in the rumor mill is the New Codex is actually Codex::Alpha Legion. In which case you'll be happy either way Alpharius.
7048
Post by: HD300
From Warseer:
Librarian dread can take a pair of psychic powers and has the standard gear for a librarian (force weapon/psychic hood). The one dreadnought weapon that had me laughing for a bit was the magna-grapples. It's a strength 8 anti-vehicle HARPOON... I ain't kidding. It's essentially a meltagun that instead of doing melta damage, drags the target vehicle 2D6" toward the dreadnought, facing unchanged. I don't think it does anything to infantry aside from smashing them with a giant harpoon.
Sanguinary Guard shooting is... interesting. Assault 2 bolt pistols is essentially what they have. At AP4. They went wrist mounted everything on them from bolt pistols to plasma to inferno pistols. And I believe they're the ones who benefit from the Descent of Angels rule. They roll one less die for scatter.
Mephiston's Transfixing Glare is once again an innate ability, so no psychic test to kick it off. I can't remember off the top of my head how many it affects, probably only a single model or something, but they take their leadership test with a -4 modifier. Might of Heroes is gone, he's got Wings, a power to give folks with him Preferred Enemy and one other, but I'm fairly certain it wasn't Might. Can't remember if he had Furious Charge, but that's fine since he's faster than genestealers anyway.
12914
Post by: FoxPhoenix135
So DC are being moved to troops, but as a unique slot? I wonder how they fluff-justified that... frothing mad angry marines sitting around an objective... doesn't quite ring true to me. Are we sure they are not just an elite choice that doesn't take up an elite slot?
2700
Post by: dietrich
FoxPhoenix135 wrote:So DC are being moved to troops, but as a unique slot? I wonder how they fluff-justified that... frothing mad angry marines sitting around an objective... doesn't quite ring true to me. Are we sure they are not just an elite choice that doesn't take up an elite slot?
With Canis, SWs can take Fenrisian Wolves as Troops, but they don't Score. DC may be the same way - frothing mad may prevent you from scoring. ("That's what she said!")
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Post by: Alpharius
skipmcne wrote:Alpharius wrote:
So, I really do think that I have found a good 'counts as' codex for my Raven Guard force!
My guess, based soley on the gnashing of teeth, and rending of hair I'm hearing in the rumor mill is the New Codex is actually Codex::Alpha Legion. In which case you'll be happy either way Alpharius.
Ha!
If you're right, either way - I win!
17155
Post by: bhsman
Little bit from from Captain Blood on Warseer:
I'll have more info once I swing by my local GW again, but from what I remember, Dante doesn't scatter. Him and I believe whomever he accompanies in a deep strike simply comes down where he wants. Beyond that, I can't remember that much from his entry, to be perfectly honest, I was busy drooling at the pics in the book.
Seth has some interesting special rules in close combat. He can forgo his normal attack roll and simply auto hit everything in base to base with him once; good if he's swarmed, not so good if he's dueling. And should the opponent roll 1 to hit him, he basically kicks them with a basic CC attack.
As I recall, there's an entry for Veteran Squads, but nothing more detailed right now.
Tycho is no longer rubbish in close combat, he hits like a monstrous creature... a strength 4 monstrous creature. And rerolls a single wound. His combi-melta has access to sternguard special ammo as well.
Death Company costs are 133% of a standard marine without any gear. Jump packs bring the cost per model to the exact same as they were in the PDF. They are going to be an expensive unit... Lemartes, as mentioned above, is an upgrade character to the DC and gets stronger once wounded. He's only got 2, so that's a little dicey. Chaplains are little different from the way they were. I remember seeing an entry for the reclusiarch, so that at least implies you get them in differing strengths, and the DC get to reroll wounds as well as hits on charge with the liturgies of hate or whatever they call the rule.
The Magna-Grapples will only pull a vehicle as far as the edge of terrain or 1" away from other models. It seems to be a shooting attack since it has a statline, and range, on par with a meltagun. As far as I remember.
That should be most of what I can remember from what I saw last night, but yes, my local GW (Metrotown, if you're in the Vancouver/Burnaby, BC area) just got its black box. More as I remember/spend time reading it.
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Post by: Alpharius
So the "StormRaven" is definitely in, right?
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
Alpharius wrote:So the "StormRaven" is definitely in, right?
Yes, the Storm Harbinger is definitely in.
6005
Post by: Death By Monkeys
I've noticed that all the folks so far who've claimed to have seen the contents of the Black Box have been Canadian - anyone from UK, US, or AUS who have seen it yet?
Edit: Just talked to the manager of the GW shop near me and found out they'll have the Black Box tomorrow for perusal. They wouldn't let anyone check out the IG codex last year when it came in early and so I asked if we'd be able to check out the BA codex tomorrow. The manager said he'd need to check to see when he could legally show it to us, but if he gets the okay, he'll be able to. Calling the local indie stores, it sounds like they won't be getting their Black Boxes for at least another week.
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Post by: Ravajaxe
Hi guys,
Maybe I skimmed over the topic too fast, but if I recall correctly, all Rhino variants have "fast" rule right ? Not only Baal Predator and Rhino. If this is the new overcharged engines rule, what are the drawback for this ? I can't believe Blood Angels get this advantage for just a bunch of points increase.
123
Post by: Alpharius
Rulebook is out of reach right now - what will "FAST" do for Blood Angel rhinos and variant now, especially if it is the Vindicator too?
17844
Post by: Grarg
Move 12" and be able to fire one weapon, in the vindicator's case, the demolisher cannon. And be able to go flat out up to 18".
6979
Post by: Nicorex
Ravajaxe wrote:Hi guys,
Maybe I skimmed over the topic too fast, but if I recall correctly, all Rhino variants have "fast" rule right ? Not only Baal Predator and Rhino. If this is the new overcharged engines rule, what are the drawback for this ? I can't believe Blood Angels get this advantage for just a bunch of points increase.
Actually this may be a bit of a Disatvantage, everyone else buys rhinos 15 points cheeper. You may not always use that fast ability(scooting around terrain, hidding untill you can make your dashes to objectives), plus its still just a rhino and gets popped just as easy and in an army with 4 or 5 rhinos thats a bit of wasted points/potential.
2035
Post by: Khornatedemon
Alpharius wrote:Rulebook is out of reach right now - what will "FAST" do for Blood Angel rhinos and variant now, especially if it is the Vindicator too?
It pretty much allows them to move and shoot better and gives rhinos an 18" range on grabbing objectives. Vindi's can then move 12" and fire. Preds that can move 6" and fire all are pretty cool too if they get them
26270
Post by: Toloran
Alpharius wrote:Rulebook is out of reach right now - what will "FAST" do for Blood Angel rhinos and variant now, especially if it is the Vindicator too?
Offensively, Fast doesn't make a whole lot of difference for the basic Rhino since it's only gun isn't especially important. However, Fast means that the rhino can move 18" in a turn by going flat out. Even though that makes it so it can't unload, it can be used to ninja an objective at the last minute. For the actual tanks (Predators, Vindicator, etc), it means it can move 12" and fire it's gun. This changes the Vindecators threat area from 30" to 36."
186
Post by: GrimTeef
Hmm. So have regular Dreads been moved to Heavy Support? Or are they only Elite slot choices? I was hoping for the move to Heavy...
That Magna-Grapple on the Librarian Dread (happy that there is indeed one in the dex, been planning out a conversion) sounds interesting, but strange that it's only for the Libby-dread. Seems like something that any dread could really use. Gotta limit it, I guess. Gotta work that into the conversion with a chain-winch and reel or something... like a Dread with a built in fishing reel... My librarian dread, Captain Ahab...
Dang, how big is that Storm Harbinger/Raven going to be?? Transports a dread AND a unit! Cripes. Seems that should really read 'or' not 'and'. Too bad there's no pics of that vehicle yet.
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Post by: insaniak
The Crippler wrote:Oh my... the flyer exists. I had convinced myself it was purely the product of the interwebz speculation. If it is in the book, it simply HAS to have a model made for it. Has to. A model that I would buy this very minute if it was so offered to me.
Keep in mind that it took two versions of the Marine codex having the Drop Pod as an actual vehicle before they got around to making a model for it, despite the number of people who wanted one...
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Post by: Alpharius
Technically, you didn't need a model the first time 'drop pods' were introduced, right?
Just the large template?
Or am I misremembering here?
Anyway, I'm very excited about this new marine flyer, and suspect that it will get the 'all marine chapter Apocalypse' treatment shortly before or slightly after it is released...
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Post by: dietrich
In the third edition SM codex, you didn't need a model. All infantry, jump troops, speeders, and dreads in the army could deep strike, but everyone else stayed at home.
In the Fourth Ed SM codex, you needed a model for the drop pod. And GW would have sold them as fast as they could make 'em at that time. Pod armies were all the net-tough-guy army rage.
In fifth edition, they finally released a drop pod model. But, they're not nearly as good as they were in fifth due to rule changes (ability to reserve the whole army, plus drop pod assault).
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Post by: Jackmojo
The very first Drop Pod rules (that I recall) were in the 3rd editon marine codex, and all they were was an option to only take a limited selection of units, but then all of them got the deepstrike rule.
Jack
EDIT: Zeee Neen-jas, zey ar evervhere!
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Post by: dietrich
I'm wondering if we'll see a model for the Storm Tantalus Harbinger Crow when the sixth edition SM codex comes out and the STC has spread across other chapters.
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Post by: skipmcne
dietrich wrote:I'm wondering if we'll see a model for the Storm Tantalus Harbinger Crow when the sixth edition SM codex comes out and the STC has spread across other chapters.
Get it right, it's the Storm Eagle Tantalus Crow Harbinger Unit Lander or (SETCHUL). I bet it looks like a Puma.
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Post by: Warboss Narznok
People have been saying that the Space Hulk Blood Angels are going to get a box of their own??? is this true??
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Post by: dietrich
skipmcne wrote:dietrich wrote:I'm wondering if we'll see a model for the Storm Tantalus Harbinger Crow when the sixth edition SM codex comes out and the STC has spread across other chapters.
Get it right, it's the Storm Eagle Tantalus Crow Harbinger Unit Lander or (SETCHUL).
Storm Harbinger Interceptor Tantalus would provide a better acronym............
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Post by: FoxPhoenix135
Warboss Narznok wrote:People have been saying that the Space Hulk Blood Angels are going to get a box of their own??? is this true??
I haven't heard that yet, but that would be cool. I love those models.
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Post by: reds8n
Warboss Narznok wrote:People have been saying that the Space Hulk Blood Angels are going to get a box of their own??? is this true??
No.
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Post by: warboss
for once i'd like to see GW stick to their guns and not release them as a reward to fans that actually were excited to get them last year and helped sell out the boxes. besides, there are tons of boxes still on the resale market and the speculators who bought tons of them are finally starting to come down with their ridiculous prices.
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Post by: RogueMarket
Just saw snippets of the new BA dex. Not the PDF verison.
It looks.... sweeet... Mephiston is a bad arse.
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Post by: bhsman
Are Vanguard Vets cheaper?
12914
Post by: FoxPhoenix135
You mean Veteran Assault Squads? Vanguard are vanilla dex. The original Veteran Assault squads were already awesome, so if they got cheaper that would be just as awesome.
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Post by: bhsman
Veteran Assault Squads have been replaced with the Sanguinary Guard, Vanguard Vets, and Sternguard Vets.
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Post by: FoxPhoenix135
Hm. That is an interesting development. Vanguard definitely need to be cheaper than the vanilla dex then, otherwise I won't take them in this codex either.
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Post by: Scottywan82
skipmcne wrote:dietrich wrote:I'm wondering if we'll see a model for the Storm Tantalus Harbinger Crow when the sixth edition SM codex comes out and the STC has spread across other chapters.
Get it right, it's the Storm Eagle Tantalus Crow Harbinger Unit Lander or (SETCHUL).
I bet it looks like a Puma.
What, like the shoe?
1317
Post by: Scarella
FoxPhoenix135 wrote:Hm. That is an interesting development. Vanguard definitely need to be cheaper than the vanilla dex then, otherwise I won't take them in this codex either.
Yes they are cheaper by the price of 2 basic termagants... for the base squad of 5... there are some changes in the options, they don't have access to the relic blade, but have the melta pistols, mini-flamers and the Glaive Encarmine which is a master-crafted power weapon...
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Post by: Alpharius
reds8n wrote:Warboss Narznok wrote:People have been saying that the Space Hulk Blood Angels are going to get a box of their own??? is this true??
No.
Not a surprise there.
The weapons load outs were just all over the place, in terms of a 40K squad.
And, they got to have some reason to 'find' another pallet or two (or three, or four...) of SPACE HULK games AFTER the BA Codex is released!
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Post by: viney
Scottywan82 wrote:skipmcne wrote:dietrich wrote:I'm wondering if we'll see a model for the Storm Tantalus Harbinger Crow when the sixth edition SM codex comes out and the STC has spread across other chapters.
Get it right, it's the Storm Eagle Tantalus Crow Harbinger Unit Lander or (SETCHUL).
I bet it looks like a Puma.
What, like the shoe?
No it's a big cat.
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Post by: Hulksmash
Saw the book. Looks amazing.
I don't see a lot of people fielding the Sanguinary Guard in competitive play since 5 of them cost as much as a termi squad.
TH/ SS guys are in fact +basic termagaunt per model to upgrade from claws.
Fast Scouting Baal's that cost as much as a Vindicator that can swap their TL assault cannons for a Flamestorm for free
The new flyer is 12/12/12 and does in fact clearly state you can carry a dread and squad. Didn't see a qualifier saying that Jump Pack marines take up 2 spots. It is a heavy support choice and costs base what a terminator squad does. It's good fit and I think you'll see one or two but since it's not able to be taken in all categories it doesn't overload the codex. Plus it is a little pricey.
Honor Guard are gonna be in every army. Unless I read something wrong the honor guard (At least the Sanguinary Initiate) give FnP and FC to any unit within 6". For not that expensive either.
Anything with a jump pack has the descent of angels special rule which re-rolls reserve rolls as well as only 1d6 Scatter.
Pretty solid codex overall. You pay for what you get but it definitely has it's own vibe and is a different beast from the other two 5th Edition SM codexes (Wolves and Reg.)
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Post by: skipmcne
From Warseer: the Libby Dread upgrade can take wings.
Jumping Dreads.
Fear my Boxy visage.
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Post by: bhsman
Scarella wrote:Yes they are cheaper by the price of 2 basic termagants... for the base squad of 5... there are some changes in the options, they don't have access to the relic blade, but have the melta pistols, mini-flamers and the Glaive Encarmine which is a master-crafted power weapon...
Wait, so are each of them cheaper by that much or the base cost of the entire squad of 5? And do they come with jump packs already equipped?
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Post by: Mike Leon
Is it certain that jump infantry can embark in the Storm Raven?
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Post by: bhsman
I'd say yes, since they seem to have rules that let them assault after disembarking from it.
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Post by: ubermosher
reds8n wrote:Warboss Narznok wrote:People have been saying that the Space Hulk Blood Angels are going to get a box of their own??? is this true??
No.
But people have been saying... PEOPLE!
bhsman wrote:I'd say yes, since they seem to have rules that let them assault after disembarking from it.
Has that been confirmed in the actual dex or is has that rule only been spotted thus far in the leaked pdf?
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Post by: cygnnus
Hulksmash wrote:Saw the book. Looks amazing.
I don't see a lot of people fielding the Sanguinary Guard in competitive play since 5 of them cost as much as a termi squad.
TH/ SS guys are in fact +basic termagaunt per model to upgrade from claws.
Fast Scouting Baal's that cost as much as a Vindicator that can swap their TL assault cannons for a Flamestorm for free
The new flyer is 12/12/12 and does in fact clearly state you can carry a dread and squad. Didn't see a qualifier saying that Jump Pack marines take up 2 spots. It is a heavy support choice and costs base what a terminator squad does. It's good fit and I think you'll see one or two but since it's not able to be taken in all categories it doesn't overload the codex. Plus it is a little pricey.
Honor Guard are gonna be in every army. Unless I read something wrong the honor guard (At least the Sanguinary Initiate) give FnP and FC to any unit within 6". For not that expensive either.
Anything with a jump pack has the descent of angels special rule which re-rolls reserve rolls as well as only 1d6 Scatter.
Pretty solid codex overall. You pay for what you get but it definitely has it's own vibe and is a different beast from the other two 5th Edition SM codexes (Wolves and Reg.)
I flipped through a copy as well. The flyer definitely says a Dread AND a squad of 12 models. Also, JP marines DO take up two slots each.
The plastics are freakin' amazing. Very, very nice stuff. Lots of cool bits. Cool models. DC bits are included along with Sanquinary Guard and lots of spares. I'm seriously jazzed about expanding my BA army.
The rules are pretty much what others here have posted. Baals are Fast with Scout and are in the FA slots. The Stormraven is a HS with all the goodies people have mentioned recently. Up to 30 DC. 1 DC Dread, as Troops, per 5 DC. Lots of Elites options. Lots of characters. Mephiston is a freakin' bear. T6 W5. But NO Inv save. I'm not sure I'll be taken Dante (no new figure BTW) since the Axe Mortalis remained a measly MC Power Weapon. But he does let you take Sanguinary Guard as Troops.
Assault Squads are still troops (yay!), but there's a lot of competition in there now. There are more options for weapons for the Assault guys including inferno pistols (6" melta pistols as expected) and the flamer pistols (S3 AP6 Template). Scouts are Troops. Basically all the slots are chock full o' tasty options. Elites are quite packed as are FA with the Baals in there. No downside to OCE that I could see other than the probable cost (forgot to check that one).
LR as a Dedicated transport for Tacticals is confirmed.
Oh, there's a "Blood Lance" psychic power. Draw a 4D6" line. All enemy models are hit with a S8 AP1 Lance. There's also a "Blood Boil" power. 12" range. Target unit takes a wound with no save. If the Psyker rolls 5 or less on his test, the player chooses the model, otherwise the target player chooses. Not sure about that one. I think the "protective" power was a 5+ cover save. Meh...
Anyway, cool stuff and I wish I remembered more... I kept getting distracted by the pretty things...
Vale,
JohnS
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Post by: FoxPhoenix135
Wow, great pic! That tells us several things already:
Smaller than a thunderhawk
Has protection against melta
It does carry two separate units (I think, kinda blurry)
No Pic
It looks like it has another special rule that begins with Assault (logically assault ramps, as stated elsewhere)
All in all, I think this looks like a rad unit. I want to know more about the ceramite plating!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Furthermore, mephiston probably doesn't get a invul save because he has access to that power that provides all units within X inches a 5++ save.
That of course is assuming that power is not just a rumor.
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Post by: Neconilis
Anyone out there know the weapon options of assault squads yet?
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Post by: Ostrakon
You know what else is confirmed? My purchase of a BA codex. Seriously, I dunno why they try to keep this crap under wraps.
Kind of stupid if the Stormraven isn't getting a model on the soon side.
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Post by: cygnnus
FoxPhoenix135 wrote:Wow, great pic! That tells us several things already:
Smaller than a thunderhawk
Has protection against melta
It does carry two separate units (I think, kinda blurry)
No Pic
It looks like it has another special rule that begins with Assault (logically assault ramps, as stated elsewhere)
All in all, I think this looks like a rad unit. I want to know more about the ceramite plating!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Furthermore, mephiston probably doesn't get a invul save because he has access to that power that provides all units within X inches a 5++ save.
That of course is assuming that power is not just a rumor.
Yes. Ceramite plating.
It does carry two units. A Dread and 12 troops. Don't know if you can see it in the picture, but that's what it said.
No pics anywhere that I could see. Certainly none in the unit entry nor in the color section. Nor in any b/w art I saw.
It has assault ramps and has some special rules (a la the Valk) about disembarking after it moved Flat Out. Don't recall all the details, but it involved Dangerous terrain tests unless the unit had jetpacks. And they CAN, as I recall, also use the "Descent of Angels" army rule (which makes BA more "accurate" on Deep Strikes).
<edit> Oh, and you cannot assault out of it on the turn it Deep Strikes (if you DS it). There are also options to upgrade the DonkeyCannon to TL Lascannon (and I think some other options as well).
Mephiston only had access to three powers as I recall. One was flight. One was something that gives a unit Preferred Enemy. Forget the last one. I wasn't really impressed with his powers, but his stat line is Da bomb. I don't recall anything about an INV save. I think it was a Cover Save instead. Like I said, "meh"...
Vale,
JohnS
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Post by: bhsman
Why?
Why would you continue to taunt us about how awesome the new plastics are and then post a picture of something completely different?
Masochist.
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Post by: Ostrakon
bhsman wrote:Why?
Why would you continue to taunt us about how awesome the new plastics are and then post a picture of something completely different?
Masochist.
You mean sadist.
Since the current "advance order" stuff is released on the 6th, maybe that's around when they'll update it with BA stuff.2
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Post by: FoxPhoenix135
Look on the bright side, at least we are seeing codexes already... tyranids were horrible about rumors because of the "typing error" that delayed the release date, and kept preliminary prints out of storeowner's hands.
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Post by: cygnnus
bhsman wrote:Why?
Why would you continue to taunt us about how awesome the new plastics are and then post a picture of something completely different?
Masochist.
To be honest, because I had a crappy cell phone camera handy, not a real one. That and the fact that I'm not 100% sure it was kosher to be taking pix. No one said I couldn't, but I didn't want to really press it... I figured with all the wrangling over the codex, proof that it's out there would help address some of the questions about "did it happen"?
Well, that and Sanguinius suffered for Horus' sins and so should you!
I'm sure pix of the sprues will make it out soon enough... They are loverly!
Vale,
JohnS
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Post by: Ostrakon
cygnnus wrote:
Well, that and Sanguinius suffered for Horus' sins and so should you!
NEVER FORGET 014.M31
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Post by: bhsman
Ostrakon wrote:You mean sadist.
Quiet you.
cygnnus wrote:
To be honest, because I had a crappy cell phone camera handy, not a real one. That and the fact that I'm not 100% sure it was kosher to be taking pix. No one said I couldn't, but I didn't want to really press it... I figured with all the wrangling over the codex, proof that it's out there would help address some of the questions about "did it happen"?
Well, that and Sanguinius suffered for Horus' sins and so should you!
I'm sure pix of the sprues will make it out soon enough... They are loverly!
Vale,
JohnS
Fair enough, it just feels like everyone who's seen them describes them in such barely-contained passion that I fear for the cleanliness of their pants.
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Post by: blood angel
Holy crap, it can carry a dread AND troops.
Kinda seems like a no brainer to take a few.
So a dread deploying from the thing that moves 12 inches can assault?
So a dread's base is 3 inches across? 12 + 2.9999ect + 3 + 6 = 23.9999 inch charging dread screened even if you don't get the first turn by scouting baals?
This is in addition to the 6 jump pack dudes pouring out for 22 inches.
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Post by: Manimal
Anyone know what options the assault marines have?
Or if the death company can score?
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Post by: Death By Monkeys
Hulksmash or cygnnus - Any idea how many inferno pistols or hand flamers Assault Squads can arm with?
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Post by: bhsman
Manimal wrote:Anyone know what options the assault marines have?
Or if the death company can score?
Death Company can never count as scoring, according to Capt. Blood from Warseer.
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Post by: FoxPhoenix135
That's too bad about the DC scoring, but makes more sense fluff-wise. Also, it helps in Dawn of War deployment... you can put them down first, and benefit from the cover of night for the first turn!
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Post by: Scarella
Gornall wrote:FoxPhoenix135 wrote:Well, I assume they are fast with the Baal Overcharged Engines rule, which means they can stall out.
Maybe that's what he meant. Dunno, though. I'm still somewhat dubious of the "there's no art" claim too.
To all the naysayers.... told yah so
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Post by: Gornall
You got me. ::shrug::
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Post by: Hulksmash
Death By Monkeys wrote:Hulksmash or cygnnus - Any idea how many inferno pistols or hand flamers Assault Squads can arm with?
I believe it's 2. They count as special weapons. Though it could be 3 if the sergeants can have them. Didn't fully check but did see the option for them. Inferno Pistol is the same as the plasma pistols. Melta's are a termagaunt cheaper.
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Post by: warboss
does the death co count as a force org troops slot or are they outside the normal force org? are they mandatory? i'm going to have trouble fitting all those troops choices in only 6 slots if they're in there too!
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Post by: Mike Leon
Nice work Asrodrig.
Does anybody know what kind of options these guys (sanguinary guard) have?
Is there still a separate honor guard and what kind of options do they have?
Is it true Dante still has a crap STR 4 weapon?
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Post by: bhsman
Dat axe...
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Post by: Scarella
Mike Leon wrote:Nice work Asrodrig.
Does anybody know what kind of options these guys (sanguinary guard) have?
Is there still a separate honor guard and what kind of options do they have?
Is it true Dante still has a crap STR 4 weapon?
Sang guard have...
2+ Armor saves, Descent of Angels
Glaives Encarmine = Master-crafted power swords
Assault bolters = Range 12' Str 4 Ap4 Assault 2
Deathmasks - 5 termagants for the whole squad
Every model can replace bolters with either Infernus Pistols or Plasma Pistols - 2 termagants each
May carry Chapter Banner...
Upgrade to powerfist... 2 termagants
You can only have max 5 in the squad which is worth 40 basic termagants.
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Post by: bhsman
5 models maximum? Ugh.
EDIT: Pretty much means you'll have to get them a Lander to ride around in. Not that there's anything wrong with that...
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Post by: Scarella
Gornall wrote:You got me. ::shrug::
Hee hee no harm done, doubt is a healthy sign of a rational mind
Enjoy the news... fun that the floodgates are now open... I was going to take pics, but didn't want the staff or myself to get in trouble it was a GW store anyways...
lots of pics incoming from guys at FLGS... since they can do pretty much what they want with the black book contents
cheers all
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Post by: FoxPhoenix135
bhsman wrote:5 models maximum? Ugh.
EDIT: Pretty much means you'll have to get them a Lander to ride around in. Not that there's anything wrong with that...
If razorbacks are fast, that wouldn't be a bad option either.
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Post by: Manimal
Jump troops can't go into transports usually.
The Lander looks to have an exception.
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Post by: bhsman
Manimal wrote:Jump troops can't go into transports usually.
The Lander looks to have an exception.
Considering there are rules involving Jump Infantry assaulting out of it, I would certainly hope so.
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Post by: FoxPhoenix135
So they are automatically jump infantry? You don't buy jump packs? Makes sense, but just for clarification I had to ask.
21
Post by: blood angel
230 pnts for 5 dudes w/ a pair of melta pistols and a power fist is a lot. They will fit pretty snug in the lander and backed up by a furioso dread they may not be so bad.
Sprue looks awesome though.
WTB space wings for all my assault troops
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Bloodstrike missiles?
Really? Bloodstrike?
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Post by: Neconilis
blood angel wrote:230 pnts for 5 dudes w/ a pair of melta pistols and a power fist is a lot. They will fit pretty snug in the lander and backed up by a furioso dread they may not be so bad.
Sprue looks awesome though.
WTB space wings for all my assault troops
Have to wait and see all the rules of course, but 5 man squads, especially assault squads, well they tend to have short & miserable lives.
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Post by: FoxPhoenix135
2+ saves will help justify that cost, and having 2+ save jump infantry is pretty new. That, and all the extra little gubbins will help with that cost. I, for one, definitely want one of these sprues at least for the converting opportunity they provide.
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Post by: blood angel
Completely agree, which is why i see those sprues getting canabalized for other units in the BA army and not actually fielded as they are intended.
I reserve the right to be completely wrong though.
If they can't survive an orc mob or a squad of zerks then they will be useless. One powerfist cripples the squad. Only reason I think that combining them with a dread assault from the lander might improve their usefulness since the opponent might have to decide to allocate the pk/ pf to the dread.
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Post by: bhsman
blood angel wrote:230 pnts for 5 dudes w/ a pair of melta pistols and a power fist is a lot. They will fit pretty snug in the lander and backed up by a furioso dread they may not be so bad.
Sprue looks awesome though.
WTB space wings for all my assault troops
Why not go with the Lander instead? Move 24" get out and assault, and bring the Furioso along in one tidy little package.
VVV My post was only 30 seconds after you made yours, so perhaps we were typing at the same time?
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Post by: blood angel
that's what i said!
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Post by: Scarella
FoxPhoenix135 wrote:So they are automatically jump infantry? You don't buy jump packs? Makes sense, but just for clarification I had to ask.
Yup they come with the jump packs and the Descent of Angels rule...
As for the over-use of the word Blood, yeah it's everywhere in the Codex... hand Matt Ward a healthy glass of Cranberry Juice
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Post by: mrsako
I think the blurred page did say something about a STR4 hit to rear armor to the Dread (i.e. don't roll a 6) if something something something...
Anyway... yes, a lander carrying a Furioso is exactly what we need... I can imagine a big maching dropping down from the sky and running into the enemy, clawing and destroying everything in front of it, and a squad coming out from the back.
Now we need more pics. :(
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Post by: Scarella
mrsako wrote:I think the blurred page did say something about a STR4 hit to rear armor to the Dread (i.e. don't roll a 6) if something something something...
Anyway... yes, a lander carrying a Furioso is exactly what we need... I can imagine a big maching dropping down from the sky and running into the enemy, clawing and destroying everything in front of it, and a squad coming out from the back.
Now we need more pics. :(
The dread takes the hit if the Stormraven is destroyed while carrying the Dread.
There's not a single pic of the model in the codex, trust me we all looked, in the art, in the colored pics... nothing... perhaps it will be a huge "april fools' unveiling on the part of GW
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Post by: bhsman
If the Lander blows up with the Dread riding in it, it takes a S4 hit to it's rear armor.
Scarella, are the Vanguard Vets jump infantry standard in addition to their drop in points?
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Post by: Scarella
They are pretty standard to the Space Marine ones, just cheaper by 2 termagants to compete with the other Jump-pack infantry choices in the codex.
BA Vanguard still do have the Red Thirst rule though despite being cheaper, and do not have the descent of angels rule. However, they have hand flamers and infernus pistols replacing some options and have no Relic Blade option for the SGT.
IIRC, adding models is the same being worth 4 termagants, and so is adding jump-packs being worth 2 termagants each.
The Heroic Intervention rule is still there.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Really, can we stop with the "costs 2 Termagants, 3 Carnifexes and a Happy Meal" nonsense.
The whole point (haha!) of not posting points values is that we don't want to re-post the Codex up on Dakka. Just saying "it costs 5 points" though isn't going to have the GW C&D Dragon swooping down to eat Yakface & Co. As long as you're not posting sections of the Codex verbatim, we'll be fine.
So really, just say what they cost. The alternative is really silly.
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Post by: bravelybravesirrobin
Hmm, overall I think I prefer that fan dex.
Initial reactions (warning hyperbole present)
- red thirst looks very fluffy but pretty tricky to get any decent use out of and a bit random for marines. The games when the devvys get furious charge and the assault squads are all just normal guys will be hilarious but the games when 4 or 5 squads fluke furious charge aren't going to be much fun for the other guy.
I predict a return to some of the 3rd ed builds, people are going to max out on dedicated cc troops so that when they do roll up furious charge they get some benefit out of it.
- Seth's ability to improve the odds is good though and fluffy for fleshtearers without being as OP as that fandex fleshtearers was.
- Oh, they have literal angels now. That qualifies as exactly unimaginative and goofy as the wolves riding wolves were. Still his stats look beastly and a good model might sway me to liking it.
- Baals are fast! all the time! In fast slots! AND SCOUT!! Were they not good enough already? Fantastic, now instead of morticon chucking 3 of them at me I can look forward to having 3 of them AND some vindicators chucked at me or 3 plus 3 landers each flinging 3 uber-cc dreads at me. Still I guess they compete with attack bikes.
- fast rhinos and razors for a pts increase seems fair, you need a lot of them so the pts swiftly add up but you get increased utility out of it, particularly for razorbacks (move 12" fire off assault cannon and deploy a squad to double tap/drop a meltagun or 12" flamer turret and handflamer/combi-flamer/flamer easy bake death). Fast vindies arejust stupid though. Fast vindicators, for those highly mobile seigecraft. Its like they don't even read their own fluff.
- flyers in. With this much chatter I suspected it would be. Not happy about the dread carrying (who decided BA were the dread chapter? Surely the guys who slowly and irrecovably go insane would have the least dreads?) or the assault ramp but at a pts cost of close to a land raider and using up a heavy slot that's fair. You can pull of an almighty alpha strike with them but they burn up pts and leave you with small squads.
- DC as a unique choice that are non-scoring troops is the best solution to representing the DC that GW have yet come up with. Not sure about the 30man uber squad though. And why relentless?
- jump packing troops are in, good.
- exalted/sanquinary guard whatever I'm not sure on. I like the concept but very expensive killy guys with no invulnerable is always a dicy prospect. Descent of angels is a nice rule though and teamed with a stormraven you could pull off an interesting alpha strike.
- vanguard, do they compete with baals? Because if so you will never see them. Ever. Every BA player worth his salt will twig baal spam is awesome the second they open the dex.
- sternguard, I'm not a fan of the fluff change. I liked the VG/SG split for UM but it doesn't make a huge amount of sense fo BA. Oh well, drop pod sternguard should mesh well with the playstyle of this list at least.
- scouts are troops, well hooray. People will use them again. Furious charging scoring infiltrators for a cheap price with locator beacons to call in deep strike units. That sounds like a fluffy BA build and fun to play/against.
some questions
do they get landspeeder storms?
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Post by: Ostrakon
Nice to see that there's no word of a plastic Furioso.
I just love metal dreads for some reason. I just gotta figure out how to model it with a flamer instead of a storm bolter on one arm.
8359
Post by: bravelybravesirrobin
Oh and the magna grapple?
I can't decide if that's awesome or unbelievably stupid.
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Post by: bhsman
bravelybravesirrobin wrote:Oh and the magna grapple?
I can't decide if that's awesome or unbelievably stupid.
If my reading of it is right, you can tank shock an enemy unit. With their own tank.
I believe that qualifies for "Crazy awesome"
8359
Post by: bravelybravesirrobin
bhsman wrote:bravelybravesirrobin wrote:Oh and the magna grapple?
I can't decide if that's awesome or unbelievably stupid.
If my reading of it is right, you can tank shock an enemy unit. With their own tank.
I believe that qualifies for "Crazy awesome"
We need a head/desk emoticon.
1478
Post by: warboss
bravelybravesirrobin wrote:Oh and the magna grapple?
I can't decide if that's awesome or unbelievably stupid.
awesome. i'm having trouble though accepting the "it's raining land raiders" theme without a $800 forgeworld thunderhawk at the tableside. Automatically Appended Next Post: bhsman wrote:If my reading of it is right, you can tank shock an enemy unit. With their own tank.
I believe that qualifies for "Crazy awesome"
agree with the awesome but warseer's threads (and possibly here too.. it's a blur) say that the vehicle stops 1" away from models or at terrain. i doubt you'll be able to tank shock. personally, i think you should be able to do this harpoon scorpion mortal kombat attack at monstrous creatures too... heck, if you're playing captain ahab with your dread, i'm pretty sure the freakin' white whale is a monstrous creature!
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Post by: Ostrakon
bhsman wrote:bravelybravesirrobin wrote:Oh and the magna grapple?
I can't decide if that's awesome or unbelievably stupid.
If my reading of it is right, you can tank shock an enemy unit. With their own tank.
I believe that qualifies for "Crazy awesome"
Seriously, Slaaneshi Daemons being able to make Dreads and Kans dance is certainly 90 times dumber than a dread being able to drag a tank 7 inches through an enemy unit.
What I wanna know is if I can still assault after. And if it moved 6 inches the previous turn, but it moves another 6 due to magna-grapple, does that mean that I only hit on a 6 during assault?
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Post by: Jackmojo
Drag Leman Russ from squadron through enemy unit, charge it, kill entire squadron which explodes and finishes off fleeing guardsmen...sounds fun to me.
Jack
P.S. Of course squadrons are actually less vulnerable to this as they can make sure to assign the grappler hit to the furthest model.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
As I'm going through the BA rumor confirmations, I'm thinking this is the most ridiculously stupidly awesome Codex GW has ever produced.
I will definitely be playing it.
21
Post by: blood angel
Yeah, so even if you can't get close enough with your 22+ inch move and assault range you can scorpion a vehicle over to rar! on.
Good times.
Gonna be hard pressed to get all that in with 1200 pnts spent on death company
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
bravelybravesirrobin wrote:- Baals are fast! all the time! In fast slots! AND SCOUT!! Were they not good enough already?
GW has a new model to sell. You do the math. Honestly I'm surprised that they didn't also give it Rendi... oh wait...
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Post by: Gornall
H.B.M.C. wrote:bravelybravesirrobin wrote:- Baals are fast! all the time! In fast slots! AND SCOUT!! Were they not good enough already?
GW has a new model to sell.
You do the math.
No they don't....
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Gornall wrote:No they don't....
GW has been systematically getting rid of hybrid models with each new release. The Baal is one of the last remaining Marine hybrids. And we all saw the pic.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
blood angel wrote:Yeah, so even if you can't get close enough with your 22+ inch move and assault range you can scorpion a vehicle over to rar! on.
And yet, isn't this a far more elegant HtH-accelerating mechanic than Lash?
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
As long as you cry out " Get over here!" in a deep booming voice each time you do it, yes.
21
Post by: blood angel
I completely agree. I welcome our new blood angel overlords.. obviously.
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Post by: Jackmojo
JohnHwangDD wrote:And yet, isn't this a far more elegant HtH-accelerating mechanic than Lash?
And yet still more fun...since its purpose specific and cover can actually protect against it.
Jack
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Post by: Gornall
H.B.M.C. wrote:Gornall wrote:No they don't....
GW has been systematically getting rid of hybrid models with each new release.
The Baal is one of the last remaining Marine hybrids.
And we all saw the pic.
I thought you were talking about the Lander.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Ah. I can see how you made that mistake, what with me specifically quoting a section of Sir Robin's post that dealt with the Baal.
Wait...
12478
Post by: Gornall
It's late.
12914
Post by: FoxPhoenix135
Glad to see the order I placed of 5 jump pack boxes will not go unused.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Question: Do DC come with jumppacks included in cost, or is there an option to buy them, or do they not get them at all?
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Post by: mrsako
blood angel wrote:Yeah, so even if you can't get close enough with your 22+ inch move and assault range you can scorpion a vehicle over to rar! on.
Good times.
Gonna be hard pressed to get all that in with 1200 pnts spent on death company
22" inch move and assault range? If you're talking about the lander, nothing can assault after disembarking, unless I read something incorrectly (or more precisely, didn't read something correctly)
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Post by: FoxPhoenix135
And besides, even if DC cost the same (not likely), you're looking at 900 points base. I doubt 300 of that would go to wargear, unless there is no limit on the number of powerweapons available to them.
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Post by: warboss
so do the death co dreads that now count as troops have the current weapons load out (in addition to the magna grappler)? do they get the extra d3 attacks on the charge like death co dreads do now? can they take normal dread weapons like twin lascannons or plasma cannons?
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Post by: blood angel
That was supposed to be taken with a little sarcasm.
And yes, mrsako, you have missed the cut off 'special rules' section on that page where the next rule seems to start with Ass- assuming assault.
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Post by: FoxPhoenix135
I THOUGHT it was sarcasm, until I considered that with all powerweapons the unit really could cost 1200 points. I know they won't have those sort of options, but still.
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Post by: RogueMarket
Dont know if someone pointed out->
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4453239&postcount=1
General info
Release 8 April 2010
Written by Matt Ward
Rules
Army-wide Special Rules
Combat Tactics – As per C: SM
And They Shall Know No Fear – As per C: SM
Red Thirst - Almost all BA units have it. After deployment roll D6 for each unit with the Red Thirst rule. Any unit that rolls a 1 must exchange Combat Tactics for Furious Charge and Fearless.
Descent of Angels - Anything with a Pump Pack can re-roll reserve rolls and will only Scatter 1d6 when Deep Striking.
Weapons & Wargear
GW have said there will be a range of specialist wargear for the Blood Angels
Infernus Pistols – 6” Melta pistols
Hand Flamers - S3 AP6 Template
Death Mask - Force a Ld check at -2. Fail and fight at WS1.
Over-charged Engines are gone, replaced with Fast on some vehicles.
Blood Talons - close combat weapons on the Furioso Dreadnought. A dreadnought CCW with a Stormbolter, likely upgradeable to Meltagun/Heavy Flamer.
Magna-Grapples - A R12” S8 anti-vehicle harpoon weapon for Dreadnaughts. On a successful Penetrating or Glancing hit, the target vehicle is dragged 2D6" toward the Dreadnought, facing unchanged. Will only pull a vehicle as far as the edge of Terrain or 1" away from (friendly?) models. It has been said it can cause Tank Shock.
Psychic Powers
The Sanguine Sword – Gives Librarian S10
Wings of Sanguinius – As per GW PDF
Quickening - As per C: SM
Unleash Rage - Gives unit Preferred Enemy
Blood Boil – A successful Psychic test causes a wound on an enemy unit, allocated by enemy Player. If the Psychic Test is passed with a result of 5 or less, The Blood Angels player allocates the wound.
Unnamed - Draw a line of length 4D6” from the Librarian ignoring friendly models. Enemy models take a single S8 AP1 Lance hit.
Unnamed - Units within 6” get a 5+ cover save
Unnamed – One enemy squad has to take a Ld test to Move, Run, Shoot or Assault.
HQ
Dante, Lord of the Blood Angels – He and his squad don't scatter when Deep Striking. He doesn't have Eternal Warrior.
Death Mask of Sanguinius – As per regular Death Mask, plus pick a single Independent Character at the start of the game and cause -1 to WS, A, I and Ld.
Gives his squad Hit & Run
Allows Sanguinary Guard as Troops
Gabriel Seth, Chapter Master of the Flesh Tearers – Captain stat line Armed with a very large Chainsword (S8, rending), Bolt Pistol and Iron Halo
Can forgo his normal attacks and cause one auto-hit on everything in base to base contact with him
If an enemy rolls 1 to hit him, he hits back with a basic close combat attack.
Causes all units with Red Thirst to suffer it on a 1-3.
Mephiston, Lord of Death – WS7 BS5 S6 T6 W5 I7 A~5 Ld10 Sv 2+ Around the cost of a Land Raider
Armed with Psychic Hood, Plasma Pistol, Force Weapon, Frag & Krak grenades
May cast 3 psychic powers per turn,
Transfixing Gaze - Does not require a psychic test. A single Independent Character must take a Ld test with a -4 modifier. If they fail Mephiston may re-roll failed hits and wounds. The enemy may fight back is they survive.
Tycho, Captain of the 3rd Company – Hits like a Monstrous Creature (at S4) and can re-roll a single To-Wound roll. His Combi-Melta has access to Sternguard special ammo.
Apparently there are multiple versions such as Death Company in the codex.
Reclusiarch Chaplain – Death Company get to re-roll to-wound and to-hits on the charge with the Liturgies of Hate
Librarian – No news yet
Company Captain – No news yet
Honour Guard – No news yet
Astorath the Grim – Armed with Power Axe, pistol and Jump Pack
Described as an Uber Chaplain. Apparently, if he is with the Death Company, they can re-roll Hits and Wounds.
Sanguinor, Exemplar of the Host – A “mysterious avenging angel” armed with 2-handed master crafted Power Sword (possibly S6), Bolt Pistol, and Jump Pack. WS8 ST5 T4 A5 Sv2+ 3++
Forces successful invulnerable saves in close combat to be re-rolled
Can nominate an enemy HQ and get re-rolls to all To-Hit and Wound rolls on that model
All friendly units within 6” get +1 attack
Blessing of Sanguinor - One sergeant in your army has +1 to WS, S, W, I, A and Ld
Elites
Chaplain – Death Company get to re-roll to-wound and to-hits on the charge with the Liturgies of Hate
Terminator Squad – No news yet
Terminator Assault Squad – No news yet
Dreadnaught – Can upgrade to Venerable, Furioso, and Furioso Librarian
Furioso Librarian have a single Blood Talon and Force Weapon, they have to choose which to use in close combat, but they DO get the +1 attack for having multiple CCWs. They can take 2 Blood Angel psychic powers (including Wings of Sanguinius) and has a Psychic Hood.
Techmarine – No access to the Thunderfire Cannon
Vanguard Veterans – A bit cheaper than C: SM. No Relic Blades, but access to the Glaive Encarmine (master crafted Power Weapons). Able to take Hand Flamers. Can supposedly take an Exsanguinator
Sternguard Veterans – As per C: SM
Sanguinary Guard – Armed with wrist-mounted Angelus Boltguns (12" S4 AP4 Assault 2), Glaives Encarmine (master crafted Power Weapons) Jump Packs and Artificer Armour. May take Death Masks. Max squad size of 5.
Sanguinary Priests – Unit of 1-3.
Brother Corbulo – Upgrade to Sanguinary Priests. Same profile. Armed with a S5 rending Chainsword. Red grail gives Feel No Pain and Furious Charge within 6”. Supposedly only gets FNP himself on a 2+
Troops
Assault Squad – As per C: SM but have Red Thirst
Tactical Squad – As per C: SM but have Red Thirst
Death Company – Furious charge, fearless, relentless, FNP, 3-30 models, 0-1 choice. Armed with Bolter, Bolt Pistol and Close Combat Weapon. Can take Power Weapons and Power Fists. Can take Jump Packs.
Cost with Jump Packs is the same as it is in the GW PDF.
Not a Scoring Unit
Lemartes, Guardian of the Lost – Upgrade character for Death Company. Armed with Crozius, Bolt Pistol and Jump Pack. Gets stronger if he loses one of his two wounds.
Death Company Dreadnaught - May take one for every 5 Death Company in the army. Several different weapon options including Magna-Grapple, Blood Talons (some form of Melta weapon), etc.
Scout Squad – Standard Scouts. No “Mad Max” style ones
Fast Attack
Baal Predator – Pretty much the same, but is Fast, has the Scout USR, and the option for a turret-mounted Flamestorm Cannon.
Bike Squadron – No news yet
Attack Bike Squadron – No news yet
Land Speeder – No news yet
Land Speeder Storm – Likely Added
Heavy Support
Devastator Squad – No news yet
Whirlwind – As per C: SM
Predator – No news yet
Vindicator – As per C: SM but are Fast
Stormraven Gunship – Armour 12 all around, Skimmer, Fast, Assault Vehicle, Deep Strike.
Armed with twin-linked Assault Cannons, twin-linked Heavy Bolters and 4 Bloodstrike Missiles.
Ceremite Plating make is immune to Melta weapons' extra penetration due to being able to withstand atmospheric re-entry temperatures
Bloodstrike Missiles Range 72” S8 AP1 Heavy 1, One-shot
Transports up to 2 squads of up to 12 Marines total (Jump Troops take up 2 slots) and up to 1 Dreadnought at the same time.
Transported Dreads take a single S4 hit on rear armour if the Stormraven explodes
Models can be deployed at any point of the move, even if it goes flat out but they must take a Dangerous Terrain test (Jump Pack Troops have a better chance of passing). Models deployed in this way cannot assault.
No fire points
4 access points (front, sides and top (?))
May replace Heavy Bolters with either twin-linked Multi-Melta or twin-linked Typhoon Launchers. May also take Hurricane Bolter sponsons.
Dedicated Transports
Rhino – 50 pts. As per C: SM but are Fast
Razorback – No news yet
Drop Pod – No news yet
Land Raider – Standard, Crusader and Redeemer. Only available as Dedicated Transports. Can supposedly Deep Strike somehow.
Minis
Releases are:
Death Company ( BA upgrade kit) – Makes 5 plastic Death Company / Blood Angels.
Originally Posted by The Voice
The sprue you are referring to contains:
5x Bolt Pistols
5x Chainswords (1 two-handed)
5x Bolter arm sets
2x Hand Flamers
2x Perdition Pistols
2x Plasma Pistols
1x Power Sword
1x Thunderhammer
1x Powerfist
5x Jump Packs
5x Backpacks
5x Legs
5x Torso backs
5x Torso fronts
8x Heads
20x Shoulder pads
Other small bits
Sanguinary Guard - Makes 5 plastic Sanguinary Guard
Originally Posted by The Voice
Sanguinary Guard look very similar to Sanguinor, with muscled armour, winged Jump Packs, haloed heads, two-handed weapons (three swords, two axes) and wrist-mounted Bolters. There are additional wrist mounted weapons of the Melta and Plasma variety and a lovely battle standard.
Originally Posted by The Voice
As to the Sanguinary Guard, contents are as follows:
5x legs (look like Dante/Tycho)
5x torso fronts (all muscled, no belts)
5x toros backs
5x winged Jump Packs (5 parts each)
5x left arms with wrist mounted Bolters
1x left arm with wrist mounted Plasma Gun
1x left arm with wrist mounted Melta Gun
3x 2-handed swords
2x 2-handed axes (1 double headed)
15x shoulder pads
1x large standard with winged grail icon on top
Multiple heads of different types such as with haloes and laurels
Other small bits like hands for the left arms
Picture here:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...0k/BASprue.jpg
Seems The Voice forgot to mention the Power Fist on the sprue
Baal Predator – Makes 1 Plastic Baal Predator
Comes with Assault Cannon and Flamestorm Cannon turret options as well as Heavy Flamer and Heavy Bolter sponson options.
Metal Blisters:
Sanguinor, Exemplar of the Host
Originally Posted by The Voice
Sanguinor has muscular armour similar to the current Dante miniature. His single engine Jump Pack has large wings on the sides and a halo on top. He adopts the classic “exalted angel” pose similar to Celestine with arched back and arms flung wide. His face is passive with shoulder length, wavy hair. His left hand holds a small grail, his right holds a sword.
Originally Posted by The Voice
Sanguinor has the typical broad-bladed sword used by most Space Marines. The Blade is a hand-span wide, straight, with a diamond point and a Fuller. The Guard is a typical cross guard, slightly embellished and with no Quillions. The Grip is about a one and a half hander, and the Pommel is quite plain.
Gabriel Seth
Originally Posted by The Voice
Chapter Master Gabriel Seth is armed with an Eviscerator (or very large Chainsword) which is longer than he is, double edged, with a very long grip (about 3.5-4 hand spans). He has fairly standard Power Armour, sparsely adorned with some scrollwork etc, and his backpack sports a cloak, small wings and an Iron Halo. His right shoulder pad has trim shaped like a saw blade, and his left sports a Flesh Tearers symbol with a single wing, similar to Tycho’s heraldry. He is posed running forward, pulling back for a two-handed sideways sweep of his blade and has the standard yelling head.
Astorath the Grim
Originally Posted by The Voice
Astorath has muscular armour similar to the current Mephiston miniature. He has a shouting head with long, flowing hair and a single engine Jump Pack with small wings on the sides. He is posed to be coming down in a hard 2-handed overhead swipe with an axe that’s handle is crafted to resemble a spine.
Lemartes, Guardian of the Lost
Originally Posted by The Voice
Lemartes, Guardian of the Lost, will get a brand new and much better miniature upon release. He stands atop a small pile or rubble, feet together, with right arm pointing a Bolt Pistol and left arm at ease holding a Crozius topped with a 2-headed eagle. His armour is adorned with many rivets and purity seals. His right shoulder pad is a jawless skull, and his left sports an embossed Blood Angels icon. His torso has a harness for his Jump Pack which itself is adorned with chains and charms and has the Blood Angels icon embossed on top of both intake vents. His helmet is a haloed skull with pipes to the sides of the mouth, but this time the eyes have lenses and the halo is more subtle.
Vanguard Veteran with Hand Flamer and Power Weapon.
Originally Posted by The Voice
For example, there is a Veteran with Jump Pack, Hand Flamer and Power Weapon due for release. His armour and Pump Pack are sparsely adorned with blood droplet gems, Purity Seals and scrollwork. Standing in the typical tip-toed pose of a jump troop, his upraised left arm holds a broad-bladed double-edged power sword with winged blood droplet guard and two-handed grip. The head is bare with a fairly typical short-haired Marine face in a “grumpy, but not yelling” pose.
__________________
4884
Post by: Therion
What a bland codex. If this is the Marine release of the year I would've much rather prefered a new version of Dark Eldar, Necrons, Tau or Eldar. Basically the only army list entries even remotely interesting are the fast Baal Predators and the new flyer for which there won't even be a model available. Some of the rumours sound totally wishlisty too. Why would someone who has seen a real codex write something like "Can supposedly deep strike somehow?"
I'll remain interested in seeing how this codex pans out.
173
Post by: Shaman
Why would someone who has seen a real codex write something like "Can supposedly deep strike somehow?"
@ therion I gathered he meant he couldnt think of a logical reason that they could. But it was written. I see this codex is like the wolfy wolfs. Insane abilities high cost low model count. I think the most offensive thing is the magna grapple. Unlike lash there is no defense and their dreads can be transported. Luckily only 12 inch range. Also the I can feel the jealously of many gamers, deciding whether to hop on the band wagon or not while chaos players get out their Gav dartboards.. Or they laugh as the go down the truly corrupted path of counts as.
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Post by: Jackmojo
Shaman wrote:
I think the most offensive thing is the magna grapple. Unlike lash there is no defense and their dreads can be transported. Luckily only 12 inch range.
If by no defense you mean; "anything which protects from shooting works against it", i.e. smoke, fast skimmers, cover, and of course strong armor.
Unlike lash against which any number of armies literally have no defense at all, beyond not placing non-vehicle models on the table, and even those armies which do have protection against it might not bring them.
Jack
15829
Post by: Redemption
Shaman wrote:I think the most offensive thing is the magna grapple. Unlike lash there is no defense and their dreads can be transported. Luckily only 12 inch range.
No defense? Besides staying just out of range, cover and armour saves work just fine. It is after all only a single S8 shot. The chance of it dragging a Land Raider with BS4 are 1 out of 9 shots, something like a smoke launcher would double that. Edit: Ninja'd :(
20124
Post by: Neith
Considering that list showed a picture of the Sanguinary Guard sprue, I'll be viewing it as pretty credible.
Codex sounds decent so far, even if I'm not a fan of Librarian Dreads. Mephiston's statline looks sick, I'm guessing he still doesn't have an Inv save (not that he particularly needs one if he's T6). Part of me is doubtful about Mephiston's statline though. I know he's overcome the Red Thirst and become a lot stronger because of it, but T6, on a Marine?
12478
Post by: Gornall
Cassius...
But he only has 2Ws... not 5!!!
22766
Post by: Kveldulv
Baal Predator – Pretty much the same, but is Fast, has the Scout USR, and the option for a turret-mounted Flamestorm Cannon.
I lol'ed at this.
BTW, how has Dante survived for 1100 years without Eternal Warrior?
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Post by: Destrado
Kveldulv wrote:
BTW, how has Dante survived for 1100 years without Eternal Warrior?
Because Eternal Warrior is for the ladies.
12478
Post by: Gornall
Good health insurance?
123
Post by: Alpharius
Looks like a lot of crow is about to be consumed...
Who was it that recently was doubting the existence of the "StormRaven"?
And, GBF doubting the new model for the Baal?
Not sure how I'll explain some of the elements yet, but this is definitely looking like THE codex for my 'counts as' choice for a Raven Guard army!
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Post by: Gornall
I already had my helping over the Fast Vindicators (SOOO stupid).
19529
Post by: warhammersupernerd
Kveldulv wrote: BTW, how has Dante survived for 1100 years without Eternal Warrior?
Faith in the Emperor, Imperial Medicare and a healthy dose of Space Marine steroids maybe?
Alpharius wrote: Who was it that recently was doubting the existence of the "StormRaven"?
I'll admit I was, but the recent pics proved me wrong
Well that would explain the sanguinary guard, I noticed somthing on the sprue which looked like somthing you could stick the wings on to, but it looked to small to be a regulare jumpack
Edit: Quote fail on my account
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Post by: Kirasu
Mephiston with S10 and 5 attacks? He's a damn dreadnought with I7 lol
Love the codex so far.. Seems actually unique unlike the PDF or 3rd ed book
22766
Post by: Kveldulv
That's it, I'm starting a new Blood Angel army. Nice to see that the army that got me into w40k way back in 2nd ed. finally got a proppa codex.
Sanguinor looks to be an absolute beast. Anybody know his point cost? Is it in the area of say... a terminator squad?
Anybody know his fluff? Is he, like, Sanguinius reborn?
7048
Post by: HD300
Kveldulv wrote:That's it, I'm starting a new Blood Angel army. Nice to see that the army that got me into w40k way back in 2nd ed. finally got a proppa codex.
Sanguinor looks to be an absolute beast. Anybody know his point cost? Is it in the area of say... a terminator squad?
Anybody know his fluff? Is he, like, Sanguinius reborn?
Who cares he has an aura effect for +1 attack, he buffs a sergeant to levels of awesome, and face plants characters. This guy is going in EVERY list for me. Okay not every list, but 99% of them.
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Post by: pduggie
I'm disappointed there don't seem to be muscled leg greaves like Dante has. I've been wanting to convert a Sanguinary Priest to match the white one in the Index Astartes article, and was hoping plastic muscled armor would make it easier.
13937
Post by: BrassScorpion
I saw the preview sprues and Codex at my local GW store yesterday. Really excellent work on both, making the weak job by comparison on the Dark Angels Codex and a few other relatively recent books from just 2 or 3 years ago even more conspicuous. :(
23960
Post by: Gargskull
The Magna Grapple and Stormraven sound like they'll be a right bugger for Orks, oh well, I wanted to model some more Tankbustas anyways.
186
Post by: GrimTeef
According to Scryer in the Darkness at Warseer, standard Dreads are available as Heavy Support choices. Happy day!
18895
Post by: Watching Paint Dry
Haven't seen this posted here yet...
8854
Post by: Homer S
Land Raiders deep strike by Thunderhawk that release them close to the ground. Think Mass Effect and the Mako.
11 dreads max in a standard FOC: 3 Furioso Dread as Elite, 3 Normal Dread as Heavy and 1 DC Dread as Troops per 5 DC models (so 5 max with single Troops unit of 25-30).
Homer
2175
Post by: Chaplain Pallantide
The sprue was shown on page 37, but it's still awesome though...
Does anyone know how much Dante cost? And does he truly allow Sanguinary Guard to become a troop choice?
Or would people be pissed if I replaced Assault jump packs with these new Angelic ones?
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Post by: tgjensen
Death Mask of Sanguinius – As per regular Death Mask, plus pick a single Independent Character at the start of the game and cause -1 to WS, A, I and Ld.
I don't know, if there's no way to avoid it, this part really bothers me to the point where I'd simply rather not play anyone who fielded Dante. Paying full points for my Warboss only to have him nerfed to where he's a slightly souped up nob for the entire game with no way around it really doesn't strike me as a very fun or rewarding game mechanic. Instead the idea just makes me really bitter. I mean, at least let there be a roll-off for it or something.
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Post by: Gargskull
Those look like the most packed spures yet.
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Post by: HD300
tgjensen wrote:Death Mask of Sanguinius – As per regular Death Mask, plus pick a single Independent Character at the start of the game and cause -1 to WS, A, I and Ld.
I don't know, if there's no way to avoid it, this part really bothers me to the point where I'd simply rather not play anyone who fielded Dante. Paying full points for my Warboss only to have him nerfed to where he's a slightly souped up nob for the entire game with no way around it really doesn't strike me as a very fun or rewarding game mechanic. Instead the idea just makes me really bitter. I mean, at least let there be a roll-off for it or something.
Are you for real?
I don't know what to say to that honestly, I'm kind of laughing if it conveys my message.
You don't have to worry your pretty little head - Unless Sanguine Guard are pound for pound better than RAS you'll never see him in a list, and even then it would be a very fragile, elite list. I need all the points costs to do some number crunching, but so far I'm not thrilled with the whole "Max 5 members" thing
12478
Post by: Gornall
tgjensen wrote:Death Mask of Sanguinius – As per regular Death Mask, plus pick a single Independent Character at the start of the game and cause -1 to WS, A, I and Ld.
I don't know, if there's no way to avoid it, this part really bothers me to the point where I'd simply rather not play anyone who fielded Dante. Paying full points for my Warboss only to have him nerfed to where he's a slightly souped up nob for the entire game with no way around it really doesn't strike me as a very fun or rewarding game mechanic. Instead the idea just makes me really bitter. I mean, at least let there be a roll-off for it or something.
You can probably buy 2-3 Warbosses for the cost of Dante, though. But yeah, I don't like the idea of my Calgar getting schooled like that.... I'll just have to comfort myself with EW.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
HD300 wrote:tgjensen wrote:Death Mask of Sanguinius – As per regular Death Mask, plus pick a single Independent Character at the start of the game and cause -1 to WS, A, I and Ld.
I don't know, if there's no way to avoid it, this part really bothers me to the point where I'd simply rather not play anyone who fielded Dante. Paying full points for my Warboss only to have him nerfed to where he's a slightly souped up nob for the entire game with no way around it really doesn't strike me as a very fun or rewarding game mechanic. Instead the idea just makes me really bitter. I mean, at least let there be a roll-off for it or something.
Are you for real?
I don't know what to say to that honestly, I'm kind of laughing if it conveys my message.
You don't have to worry your pretty little head - Unless Sanguine Guard are pound for pound better than RAS you'll never see him in a list, and even then it would be a very fragile, elite list. I need all the points costs to do some number crunching, but so far I'm not thrilled with the whole "Max 5 members" thing
Psssst. He's not referring to Dante taking Sanguine Guard as Troops. He's referring to Dante's special ability, which causes a character to lose 1 WS, A, I, and LD.
With no way to prevent it.
7048
Post by: HD300
Kanluwen wrote:HD300 wrote:tgjensen wrote:Death Mask of Sanguinius – As per regular Death Mask, plus pick a single Independent Character at the start of the game and cause -1 to WS, A, I and Ld.
I don't know, if there's no way to avoid it, this part really bothers me to the point where I'd simply rather not play anyone who fielded Dante. Paying full points for my Warboss only to have him nerfed to where he's a slightly souped up nob for the entire game with no way around it really doesn't strike me as a very fun or rewarding game mechanic. Instead the idea just makes me really bitter. I mean, at least let there be a roll-off for it or something.
Are you for real?
I don't know what to say to that honestly, I'm kind of laughing if it conveys my message.
You don't have to worry your pretty little head - Unless Sanguine Guard are pound for pound better than RAS you'll never see him in a list, and even then it would be a very fragile, elite list. I need all the points costs to do some number crunching, but so far I'm not thrilled with the whole "Max 5 members" thing
Psssst. He's not referring to Dante taking Sanguine Guard as Troops. He's referring to Dante's special ability, which causes a character to lose 1 WS, A, I, and LD.
With no way to prevent it.
Umm, no gak. I'm letting you know the ability to take Sanguine Guard as troops is the only reason people would take him.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Doubtful. The Deep Strike ability is a pretty hefty ability as is, especially when combined with the Mask for nailing a character reliant list.
173
Post by: Shaman
@jack mojo and redemption.. sorry I thought it just had to hit.. thankyou for helping my reading comprehension..
17844
Post by: Grarg
Can the Sang Guard assault after deep striking? Maybe something like the Vanguard?
15283
Post by: tgjensen
HD300 wrote:Umm, no gak. I'm letting you know the ability to take Sanguine Guard as troops is the only reason people would take him.
I don't know whether people would field him or not. If they don't that's fine. But I don't just play people who are competitive, so he might come up. And regardless, my objection boils down to the fact that I don't get -any- influence on whether or not my character gets nerfed or not. If Dante is fielded, my character gets gimped. That's a poor game mechanic that just isn't much fun to play against.
And for the record, my head is neither pretty nor little. I'd prefer if you spoke to me in a more respectful manner.
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Post by: jbunny
Homer S wrote:Land Raiders deep strike by Thunderhawk that release them close to the ground. Think Mass Effect and the Mako.
11 dreads max in a standard FOC: 3 Furioso Dread as Elite, 3 Normal Dread as Heavy and 1 DC Dread as Troops per 5 DC models (so 5 max with single Troops unit of 25-30).
Homer
And you have Zero Scoring units. In a Kill point mission your great, otherwise your hoping for a tie. But since 2/3 of the missions are objective, your screwed.
11558
Post by: Uriels_Flame
Gabriel Seth, Chapter Master of the Flesh Tearers – Captain stat line Armed with a very large Chainsword (S8, rending), Bolt Pistol and Iron Halo
Can forgo his normal attacks and cause one auto-hit on everything in base to base contact with him
If an enemy rolls 1 to hit him, he hits back with a basic close combat attack.
Causes all units with Red Thirst to suffer it on a 1-3.
He's so good, he slaps you when you miss.
This and the dread grappling hooks are awesome.
7048
Post by: HD300
tgjensen wrote:HD300 wrote:Umm, no gak. I'm letting you know the ability to take Sanguine Guard as troops is the only reason people would take him.
I don't know whether people would field him or not. If they don't that's fine. But I don't just play people who are competitive, so he might come up. And regardless, my objection boils down to the fact that I don't get -any- influence on whether or not my character gets nerfed or not. If Dante is fielded, my character gets gimped. That's a poor game mechanic that just isn't much fun to play against.
And for the record, my head is neither pretty nor little. I'd prefer if you spoke to me in a more respectful manner.
I'd prefer if you stopped complaining about a character that's arguably underpowered - We don't always get what we want, though. His ability isn't even that great - Oh no your HQ just got snubbed - Power fist Dante like you do every other non- EW character and move on.
1478
Post by: warboss
do the death co dreads retain the current extra d3 attacks on the charge? do they only have close combat weapons or can you put plasma cannons and such on them? (hey, death company infantry can have bolters...)
17716
Post by: Skohm
This codex is awesome.
20919
Post by: Izual
This codex is OTT broken.
Deepstriking land raiders...
24207
Post by: jbunny
Izual wrote:This codex is OTT broken.
Deepstriking land raiders...
I think i missed that rumor.
12914
Post by: FoxPhoenix135
Nice to see the cover art is not as lame as we feared...
12914
Post by: FoxPhoenix135
Enjoy, those of you who haven't seen it yet.
1
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Post by: ShumaGorath
Fast rhinos with assault squads as troops.
-Game
-Broken
9892
Post by: Flashman
Ooh, red Space Marines
20124
Post by: Neith
...I can foresee everyone in my local GW repainting their Marines to BA. I hate flavour of the month, but I guess after a while a lot of people will move onto whatever the next release is. I've been playing BA on-and-off since about 2001, so I'm pumped for the new 'Dex (even if some of the stuff sounds completely broken and/or stupid).
12914
Post by: FoxPhoenix135
My first army was Blood angels, so I am stoked. They'll move on soon enough... just like IG players are selling all their stuff now.
8944
Post by: Jackmojo
tgjensen wrote:I don't know whether people would field him or not. If they don't that's fine. But I don't just play people who are competitive, so he might come up. And regardless, my objection boils down to the fact that I don't get -any- influence on whether or not my character gets nerfed or not. If Dante is fielded, my character gets gimped. That's a poor game mechanic that just isn't much fun to play against.
I don't necessarily disagree about it being a poor game mechanic, but I did just want to point out that Dante was not the first thing to the table with this, Deathleaper seems to have that honor.
If it really is limited to enemy Independent characters some armies can skate past it entirely unmolested fairly easily ( IG, CSM, Tyranids, Daemons) and that is the rules part that bugs me most, its widely dissimilar impact on different enemies.
Jack
2700
Post by: dietrich
Fast tank-shocking rhinos with flamers and maybe hand flamers (can tac sgts take hand flamers?).
If BA hose Mech IG and Mechdar, I'm a happy man.
12914
Post by: FoxPhoenix135
It is no poorer than nids affecting leadership rolls with the deathleaper or broodlord, IMO. In fact, because of being limited in scope, I would say its even less of a factor. Considering the price of Dante (probably comparable to Grimnar) it comes at a cost.
2035
Post by: Khornatedemon
So can you assault out of a deep striking land raider the turn it comes in?
If the psy power works just like jawws with the line I can see it being nasty to snipe out special weapon troops and sarge's and the like. str8 ap1 hit > init test
25966
Post by: Demonslayer82
Special Characters are amazingly expensive at present and their only real use is to make bloody great holes during Apocalypse games in all honesty.
I have 10 unassembled tactical marines no...wait I have a large amount of unassembled marines hmmmmm I wonder if I can get away with assembling Blood Angels early....
Strokes beard........
18942
Post by: andruin
My first thought? I really like the idea of using the MagnaGrapple on a battlewagon...
How do you like deffrolla spam now?
17233
Post by: Zarake
Dread - "GET OVER HERE!"
Oh this will be nice...Gonna by the codex and flying death ship.
4949
Post by: skipmcne
Zarake wrote:Dread - "GET OVER HERE!"
Oh this will be nice...Gonna by the codex and flying death ship.
So... Deep Strike a Dread, Shoot LR, Drag it to Base 2 Base, And 2 + d3 DCCW attacks (?)...
4884
Post by: Therion
Why are people calling this stuff broken? What the heck am I missing? The game is broken when 250 points of Tactical Marines with a PF Sergeant are racing towards you 18" per turn in a 50 point AV11 transport? What the heck are those guys trying to achieve? Do they still think it's 3rd edition? A bunch of blast from the past guys trying to assault a Chimera a turn after disembarking? Incredible.
Fast Vindicators? Yeah, someone might actually use a Vindicator now so that's good news. Being playable is very different to being overpowered. The Storm Raven? A Vendetta except for an extra 100 points for some transport capacity and with all the cool lascannons exchanged with one shot hunter killer missiles. Surely this will now break the game.
A T6 Librarian that doesn't have an invulnerable save and costs 285 points? Yes, it's just all over now.
Come on, please, stop with the OTT crap, unless OTT is actually a keyword for 'underwhelming'. I've yet to spot a single thing that would make jump packers or Rhino mounted assault orientated squads truly viable.
10830
Post by: synchronicity
So the question is, when you "spear" a vehicle, do your attacks still hit on 4+/6+ respectively, if it moved last turn? If it didn't move last turn, do you still get to automatically hit it, even if you moved the speared vehicle over 6 inches?
I'm assuming yes and yes.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
FoxPhoenix135 wrote:It is no poorer than nids affecting leadership rolls with the deathleaper or broodlord, IMO. In fact, because of being limited in scope, I would say its even less of a factor. Considering the price of Dante (probably comparable to Grimnar) it comes at a cost.
Deathleaper's expires once he dies. It even says in the ability list "as long as Deathleaper is still alive". The Broodlord abilities are Psychic tests.
Neither of which are the same as just nominating one model at the beginning of the game and altering it with no chance of negating it.
17716
Post by: Skohm
Khornatedemon wrote:So can you assault out of a deep striking land raider the turn it comes in?
Nope
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