So within the next 3 weeks, they are guaranteeing I am getting my stuff? As far as they have said (and stuck to thus far) no product will be sold to public before KS backers. And they will be selling 40 units of the starter set there.
Good news...I guess? provided I get my massive KS before the 8th. Otherwise I can see this going very bad for hawk
daemonish wrote: https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/dropfleet-commander-pre-launch-event-wayland-games-essex-tickets-27673428971
very interesting.
That doesn't mean anything though given that Hawk's own 'launch' event was very premature.
Hawk has been extremely bad at communication during this phase of their KS, we are now 3 months past the original delivery date and all hawk have said is that they will be sending out pledges "soon" and that they are still waiting on nameless printed items with their last update being 2 weeks ago (which said nothing more than the update in August).
daemonish wrote: https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/dropfleet-commander-pre-launch-event-wayland-games-essex-tickets-27673428971
very interesting.
That doesn't mean anything though given that Hawk's own 'launch' event was very premature.
Hawk has been extremely bad at communication during this phase of their KS, we are now 3 months past the original delivery date and all hawk have said is that they will be sending out pledges "soon" and that they are still waiting on nameless printed items with their last update being 2 weeks ago (which said nothing more than the update in August).
There was a teaser photo on the FB page today of the activation cards - Maybe that was the printed item?
I am looking forward to seeing this game at retail - love space ship games and looking forward to mixing my new Dropzone ships with my BFG and Babylon 5 warships as I love many of the Hawk designs but equally really dislike others - same with ground forces.
Do we have a date for retails sales?- hoping Element games will have it as not a fan of Wayland.
The lack of communication is really frustrating. All other factors being equal I'd probably be more excited about DFC than anything else because it's so unique, and if they were better about communication I saw myself springboarding into DZC and trying to start up a group for it. I can forgive delays, I just want to know what's going on and see that the company is involved with me given that I just dropped quite a lot of money on them.
Now I'm a bit gunshy about dropping any more money on a Hawk Wargame, and Operation: Red Veil has captured all my gaming attention.
The DFC 'grand tournament' is on this weekend and attendees have apparently been told that everything has now been delivered and they are waiting to get everything packed before they start sending stuff out.
Shouldn't be long now (although I said that in July......)
Yeah the communication (or lack thereof) has been really bugging me too. I'd like it if they would keep us better up to date, even if there is no news. Surely if they are still waiting on a print delivery, that means they have time to write a short little message every now and then?
Iron_Captain wrote: Surely if they are still waiting on a print delivery, that means they have time to write a short little message every now and then?
Especially when they are still posting periodic stuff on their instagram account.
Especially when they are still posting periodic stuff on their instagram account.
I think this aspect of it annoys me more than anything else. I paid money for their Kickstarter, I shouldn't have to search them out in Facebook groups and Istagram just to find out what's going on with them. They have my contact information already, the onus is on them to keep me informed about why they aren't fulfilling their obligations.
RoninXiC wrote: I agree. They need to use their kickstarter page to update us backers and not closed facebook groups or gak instagram....
They aren't posting any information, just artwork and the like. Someone clearly has the time to do that though so they could easily take the couple of minutes that would be required to post a quick update.
Part of me is thinking that is something like coming from an industry / design background, they probably see wiring an update as an Official Report to Business Stakeholders and so are nervous about the idea of just writing a 'quick' update. Whereas Instagram and things feel more informal.
None the less, I have been playing DZC for a while now, chatted to the Hawk guys at events etc and I really would say I have complete faith in them and, to be honest, despite their small size I really do think they are amongst the most Professional (with a capital P) of miniature game companies out there.
I definitely understand the desire to know as much as possible about a product you are really excited about but I also understand why they don't send update after update saying "still no news but hopefully soon?" I can imagine the average kickstarter backer would find more to complain about updates that contain two minutes worth of text and no new art or anything else. It makes a lot of sense to hold off on anouncements until you have something substantial to announce.
But there is information, they have just chosen not to bother telling their backers. The communications for the tail end of this project have been exceptionally poor and unprofessional.
overtyrant wrote: Meh, I'm not bothered. Quite happy and patient to get any information they chose to share as I know my pledge will arrive soon.
I don't doubt I wont get it soon, but people attitudes should be that its pretty crappy of a company to take time to post pics, but not even give a few sentence update. That's the only way people will help change the industry. I paid them quite a lot of money, so until the product comes, I am entitled to regular updates.
I backed rail raiders from Soda Pop, and they give a update usually every week or every other week and they hold by it. Because they do that, ill plan to back more of their KS in the future.
so somebody having time to throw a quick photo doesn't nessesarily mean the right person to use the KS account was free to do one
It takes literally minutes to post an update. Dave Lewis said on Saturday that everything had now been delivered and packing was underway yet there still hasn't been any form of update from Hawk anywhere.
Hawk's comms have been terrible over the last couple of months. Given that they have missed several 'soft' deadlines now this is exactly the time where they should be telling the world exactly what is happening.
Gasmasked Mook wrote: I can imagine the average kickstarter backer would find more to complain about updates that contain two minutes worth of text and no new art or anything else.
Not when all those soft deadlines keep rolling by. June, no July, I meant the middle of August, no the end of August.....
Hawk have pushed out an update and apparently it will take 3 weeks for pledges to be delivered.
52
Printed Material has Arrived!
Posted by Hawk Wargames (Creator)
Dear Fantastically patient backers!
We are able to confirm that we have just received our delivery of printed material. This means that we have begun to pack specific rewards, and will begin to dispatch very soon. In terms of timeframes, we will now do everything we can to get these out as quickly as possible, and can only thank you for your support and faith in us to get us to this point.
The Core Rulebook for Dropfleet Commander has arrived!
The Core Rulebook for Dropfleet Commander has arrived!
We are really happy with the quality of everything we will be sending out to the backers of this Kickstarter, whether that is the Dropfleet Commander Core Rulebook, and of course the rules themselves, through to the Tape Measure in the 2 Player Starter Set.
Matt Lamination and Spot UV on the cover (front, back and spine)
Matt Lamination and Spot UV on the cover (front, back and spine)
The dispatch process should take an estimated 3 weeks due to the quantity of shipments and collections, though we have organised extra vehicles in advance to ensure we get shipments out as quickly as possible, and with as high a quantity as possible. During this period we will endeavour to get back to you quickly about questions you might have, though we have planned to utilise some of our brilliant office team for extra shifts at our warehouse and dispatch centre.
224 Pages of image and text rich content in the Dropfleet Commander Core Rulebook
224 Pages of image and text rich content in the Dropfleet Commander Core Rulebook
We will be showing a full break down of every item that was a reward over the coming weeks, so that you know what will be coming your way, and we will be sharing more about key Dropfleet Commander events that we have planned for the retail launch and during the rest of this year!
Autumn Invasion 2016 was our largest Dropzone Commander Tournament to date!
Autumn Invasion 2016 was our largest Dropzone Commander Tournament to date!
Thank you to all of those who turned up to our Autumn Invasion 2016 two day tournament. It was a great success, and we really appreciated all those who visited us for the open weekend too. The attendance was the highest ever for a Dropzone Commander Tournament, and the representation for the tournament included the USA, Canada, Denmark, Netherlands, Germany, Sweden, and of course, the UK! Dates for Invasion 2017 will be out soon, along with a date for our first (Invasion sized) Dropfleet Tournament in 2017 too!
Thank you to all of you who have supported us to get to this place. Not long now... back to packing!
Kind regards
The Hawk Wargames Team.
Some of the duplicates text is referring to pictures in the email.
Happy? They're saying with packing will take 3 weeks. With international shipping it could be another 2 weeks before my product arrives. That means that means we're talking a Kickstarter that could deliver in the end, what, 4 months late for me? No, I'm not happy.
I'm at least satisfied that I'm not being completely scammed. Plus since Operation: Red Veil arrives in a week I'll probably be distracted enough to not complain anymore. But that doesn't make me happy with Hawk.
4 months delay is actually well within tolerances for this sort of thing. Given that it appears to be of top quality, I suggest you really consider how atrocious 90% of tabletop kickstarters are.
Most of them are YEARS delayed. And with substantially lower quality than promised. OR shithole rules. I'd also question the use of 'scammed', when gak like Robotech exists.
DFC by comparison is nearly perfectly executed in comparison.
Killionaire wrote: 4 months delay is actually well within tolerances for this sort of thing. Given that it appears to be of top quality, I suggest you really consider how atrocious 90% of tabletop kickstarters are.
Most of them are YEARS delayed. And with substantially lower quality than promised. OR shithole rules. I'd also question the use of 'scammed', when gak like Robotech exists.
DFC by comparison is nearly perfectly executed in comparison.
I will agree that there are many crap table top minis games (everything Mantic does, Robotech) Scammed is a bit to far, since I will be getting the product I paid for (hopefully they pack it all right)
BUT no, I'm not happy. The mindless worker ant thinking of just "accepting things how they are because...that's how its been" is crap. That thinking lets a company do it again...and again...and again because they know people will pay, they can be late, and they don't need to care about backlash. Its insane to read comment after comment about ANY kickstater of people going "well its late so its ok and I know ill love it!"
I love Dropzone Commander, and Simons a good person, (as I'm sure the others are as well) but its no excuse to be late. I don't care how good the models look, or how well written and balanced it is. If you give a date, you stick by it. I hope they never do a KS again, as its better just to wait until retail release. Everyone is going to be buying it same time us KS backers get it anyways (or before hand in some cases)
The delay also had nothing to do with the rules, or models. It was all on just getting the rulebook printed. So even more reason this is crap
Honestly I'm glad it's late. If it came out right around the timeframe that was initially quoted, it would have run headlong into Warmachine and Hordes MK3, which is pretty heavy in my area. I wouldn't have had a chance to demo any games with the starters.
A few months later and people have cooled a bit on WM/H which gives me some wiggle room.
So the rule book looks high quality and beautiful and all... but that formatting. Surely someone had to have told them that a broad landscape softback isn't the most practical format for a rulebook...
jSewell wrote: So the rule book looks high quality and beautiful and all... but that formatting. Surely someone had to have told them that a broad landscape softback isn't the most practical format for a rulebook...
It's a homage to the BFG rule book, but I agree it's not very practical...
"This box contains 4 hard plastic space station sprues - to date the largest sprue Hawk Wargames has produced. Each sprue includes 51 different components and 71 in total - that's a staggering 284 parts in this one set, not including the bases!"
Call me crazy or maybe I'm so used to GW pricing but £36 for that does not seem steep to me.
JOHIRA wrote: I think this aspect of it annoys me more than anything else. I paid money for their Kickstarter, I shouldn't have to search them out in Facebook groups and Istagram just to find out what's going on with them. They have my contact information already, the onus is on them to keep me informed about why they aren't fulfilling their obligations.
I would agree this is a fair complaint. They should be keeping Kickstarter supporters updated with Kickstarter updates, not random posts all over the internet. The long gaps in Kickstarter updates was really unacceptable.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: A social media count might well be something more people have access to post on within the company than their KS account
True and posting stuff to social media sites is a great way to spread the word on the game to people who are not already backers. However. Ignoring the backers in favor of informing random gamers isn't cool. They have an ethical responsibility to keep the backers informed of the project status, after we give them the money to make the project possible in the first place.
str00dles1 wrote: BUT no, I'm not happy. The mindless worker ant thinking of just "accepting things how they are because...that's how its been" is crap. That thinking lets a company do it again...and again...and again because they know people will pay, they can be late, and they don't need to care about backlash.
I don't think its "mindless worker ant thinking" as much as accepting reality. Unless the company literally has the entire product in house and ready to ship when they launch the Kickstarter, any estimated final shipping date is going to be just that, an estimate. There are just so many things that can cause delays between initial game concept and the final product delivery that its unrealistic not to expect delays. If such delays bother you that much, you are probably better off waiting out the Kickstarter and just buying when they do the retail release. They are an unavoidable fact of life.
Pic of some example space stations made with the box and pic of the Spure itself which you get 4x of. I believe all of those stations were made with just 1 box, or if not all almost all of them.
Seeing the part count and complexity of the final models, I retract some of my earlier kvetching. I was expecting a smaller sprue with simplified parts and smaller final minis. My apologies to Hawk Wargames.
Modular Space stations for Dropfleet Commander US$50~60, coming in November.
Modular Space Station Pack Information
This incredible multi-part hard plastic set is a fully modular custom space station building kit - a first for tabletop gaming! It can be assembled in a virtually infinite number of ways in a massive variety of forms, shapes and sizes to fit your imagination.
All eight cruiser-sized space stations in the image gallery can be built from a single set, but these are just examples. A much larger number of smaller stations could be constructed; alternatively, players could use the entire set to build one massive orbital dock! If you wanted to create something truly gargantuan, multiple sets can also be combined.
Every one of its many and varied parts is sumptuously detailed. Superstructure, towers, communication dishes, gantries, cooling vanes, gun turrets, laser weapons and missile pods are all part of the kit, giving the builder an unrivalled degree of creative options.
Space stations are integral to many scenarios in Dropfleet Commander - highly appropriate for the game's orbital combat setting!
This box contains 4 hard plastic space station sprues - to date the largest sprue Hawk Wargames has produced. Each sprue includes 51 different components and 71 in total - that's a staggering 284 parts in this one set, not including the bases!
Average size of example space stations shown is 90x90x60mm.
NOTE: This kit is provided with 6 large and 8 small Dropfleet flight stands, designed to track in-game status without the use of tokens.
Please Note: Miniatures are supplied unpainted and some assembly will be required.
I have had a sneaky look at the beta rules and I have knocked out a quick 1500 point list, no individual points costs as Hawk don't want that sort of thing posted apparently.
Pathfinder Group
4 Taipei frigates
2 Lima Frigates
2 Osaka Light Cruisers
Pathfinder Group
4 Taipei Frigates
2 Jakarta Frigates
1 Seattle Carrier
Line Group
2 New Orleans Strike Carriers
Berlin cruiser
Vanguard Group
1 Avalon Battlecruiser
1 New Orleans Strike carrier
Vanguard Group
1 St Petersburg Heavy Cruiser
1 New Orleans Strike carrier
Line Group
San Fransisco class troopship
16 Frigates, 6 Cruiser hulls, and a Battlecruiser with 55 points left over for some kind of admiral (the rules/costs for them aren't in the beta)
The model count is substantially more than a game like BFG but not excessively so.
In general Frigates cost between 25 and 50 points, Light cruisers are 80-100ish, Cruisers are 100-150ish, Battlecruisers are 200ish and Battleships are 260ish. There isn't that much difference in terms of cost between the races (although UCM and scourge tend to be on the lower end with Shaltari and PHR on the upper end), for instance there is a 20 point difference between the cheapest and most expensive top tier Battleships.
Silent Puffin? wrote: Pledges have started to be sent out this afternoon, apparently the smaller pledges are being sent out first (or at least they form the first wave).
While that's great news, it's also infuriating I'm hearing it through a message board unrelated to Hawk Wargames while my Kickstarter inbox hasn't budged a bit in weeks. It makes me think that now that Hawk has our money they don't really care if we're satisfied with their communication.
I do think they should update more, but that's definitely not their intention - I think they're approaching it more like a preorder, where they're doing everything they can to get the orders out, but aren't necessarily blogging about it / updating thoroughly.
Obviously I'd love more on that front, but I'll be happy with getting the miniatures and hopefully seeing if the game can take off at retail too
RiTides wrote: I do think they should update more, but that's definitely not their intention - I think they're approaching it more like a preorder, where they're doing everything they can to get the orders out, but aren't necessarily blogging about it / updating thoroughly.
Obviously I'd love more on that front, but I'll be happy with getting the miniatures and hopefully seeing if the game can take off at retail too
But it should be the intention. As stated, they could literally take 5 min and one person the the team could post that orders are shipping. that's it. No pics needed just a single sentence. But I have to trust/hear it from a message board? I love Dropzone and know I will love Dropfleet, but the company is about as useful as a poopy flavored lolly pop
I meant their intention wasn't that they don't care about backers (I think!) but rather are just extremely busy. I agree with you, of course, I'd love more updates . Here's hoping the larger pledges aren't far behind these initial shipments!
Souleater wrote: It seems that Hawk are sending out smaller pledges first.
It seems quite random as some Admirals have had their emails and some international backers have also had notification. As yet there doesn't seem to be a definite pattern.
There has been no official confirmation that shipping has started, this info comes directly from the DFC facebook group.
I thought the last update (when they said the print materials arrived) laid out that they were starting to pack and ship (and that they're doing it with "all hands on deck", as it were ).
RiTides wrote: I thought the last update (when they said the print materials arrived) laid out that they were starting to pack and ship (and that they're doing it with "all hands on deck", as it were ).
That update was 10 days ago with a 3 week period for all deliveries and they started shipping 8 days later. It would be nice to be kept informed.
53
We Are Shipping!
Posted by Hawk Wargames (Creator)
Dear Backers,
We thought we would give you a little more information with this update for you.
Firstly, it gives us great pleasure to announce that pledges have been arriving with backers from today onwards! It's been a long journey for us to get to this point as we've expanded and met the challenges that the sheer success of the Kickstarter presented. Our warehouse is straining at the seams with over 150 pallets of product and we can't wait to get it out to you all!
As the shipping process continues we'll be able to provide a clearer picture of our schedules once we establish a reliable daily boxing/dispatch rate. We are working closely with our dispatch partners to ensure our packages reach you as quickly as possible. With around 4000 individual orders to pack, label, log and dispatch this will be by far the largest shipping operation the company has ever undertaken, so please bear with us over the coming number of days as we ship your orders. We're working as fast as we can to get them to you. You'll be provided with individual notifications once your order is ready for dispatch where possible, so please keep an eye out for that.
Some more details for you all:
As it is now shipping, we want to talk a bit more about the rulebook and the game, specifically, what we've added or improved since the Kickstarter was originally launched.
The rulebook has been a truly gargantuan effort for all of us! At a whopping 224 pages it is quite a bit larger than originally planned, offering the game the depth and immersive experience that it deserves. In addition to over 60,000 words of background, an extra level of polish has been lovingly applied to the look and feel of the book, right down to showing the real world dimensions of almost every ship in the game!
Although all this added to our workload and pushed our schedule back a little, we think it has been worth it for the increase in quality and content of the product and the whole game. We can comfortably say without reservation that it's the best publication that Hawk Wargames has produced to date and is a book we can all be justly proud of. We hope you enjoy consuming it!
The beta test with our Admiral backers proved extremely useful and we have incorporated a wide range of improvements and adjustments to the rules based on this feedback. In addition to streamlining and many balancing adjustments (points costs, unit prowess etc) we've also made several global adjustments to the relative effectiveness of weapons and tactics. One example of this is that most carriers can't launch quite as many Bombers as before, bringing their destructiveness into line with regular weapons.
We've also added some whole new elements that were either missing from the beta or have since been incorporated into the ruleset. Here are some of the highlights:
1) 'Ramming' is now in the rules!
This has been discussed at considerable length, and has now been added due to popular demand and (admittedly) for sheer fun factor. However, since ramming in the Greek Trireme sense is extremely hard to pull off in high velocity space combat, the actual thing your desperate captain is doing when you ram is closing to suicidal point blank weapons range and/or detonating the drives for massive devastation. Since this always results in the destruction of your ship, you can only do this when the ship is almost destroyed as a last and desperate attempt to drag the enemy down with you! If you can pull off a successful ram though, the results can be devastating... Rolling a number of Lock 3+ dice equal to your starting hull points can be RUINOUS, especially if it's a 22 HP battleship doing the ramming...
2) A range of rules for orbital scenery
These add greatly to reasons for manoeuvring and provide a plethora of tactical options for players. Most of the game's scenarios incorporate some orbital scenery and we find it improves the gaming experience greatly. Most common is Debris Fields, a constant threat in wartorn orbits of the Cradle Worlds. These come in Fine and Dense varieties, each bringing their own opportunities and challenges. For example, Fine types are particularly dangerous to strike craft, whereas Dense ones do more damage to ships that fly through them. There are also Planetary Rings (essentially, a fine strip of debris bisecting the table) and Large Solid Objects (LSOs), being small moons, orbiting asteroids and massive orbital plates. Since scenery is now integral to the game, the 2 Player Starter Set now also includes punch out card Fine and Dense debris fields!
3) Detailed rules for Space Stations
These are common sights in the orbits of the highly developed Cradle Worlds and are now included in many of the game's scenarios. Often, these are worth Victory Points and present a different challenge than Clusters when it comes to taking them, as Strike Carriers cannot hide in Atmosphere while dropping troops on them, making Troopships far more durable for the task. The core rules even include a set of standard armaments for them, often adding an extra reward for holding them as the scenario dictates.
4) Three new special Sector types
These add flavour and variation to some of the new scenarios in the book and can be used to make some awesome setups of your own. Orbital Defence Sectors feature colossal anti-orbital guns that can engage enemy ships if you hold them, Power Plant's give a highly valuable (but volatile) objective that does massive damage to all other Sectors in the Cluster if destroyed, and Comms Stations give your ships added Scan Range if you hold them. Tokens for these new Sector types are now included in the 2 Player Starter Set in addition to the original 3 types.
5) Approach type
This is a new part of every scenario. It dictates how a fleet approaches the battlespace, be it in an ordered battleline or in a chaotic and rapid response to an emerging threat. There are six types in total and these greatly change the dynamic, often feeding the fleets into the maelstrom over several turns, making Energy Spikes a lot more instrumental late game. You can also change the suggested Approach Type in any scenario, altering the shape of the game and adding to replay value.
6) Command Cards
These add an extra tactical and immersive layer to the game. Much like in Dropzone Commander, these are not essential and can be added once you've got used to the core rules. These will be released in early 2017 for all four factions and the rules for them are now also included in the core book.
7) Integration with Dropzone Commander
Five pages of the book are dedicated to integrating the two games together in various ways. How you do this is going to be massively dependant on the size of your gaming group and the amount of time available. As such, the rules give multiple options, catering for in depth campaigns with multiple players, 2 player time-lapses, campaigns days and much more! The close ties between Dropzone and Dropfleet Commander will be integral to some exciting global campaigns we have planned in the near future!
We hope you enjoy the Rulebook for Dropfleet Commander and are as excited as we are to finally see it released into the wild! In the following updates, we shall include a range of other updated information like this, including more images of the final reward items going out. We shall have further shipping information for you soon.
Kind regards
The Hawk Wargames Team
Received my KS order of plastic spaceships today. Just the 2 Player Starter Set Pledge. Summary of contents:
Seriously, it's all terribly nice. The rule book is kept safe in a nice pack o'cards like sheaf. It suddenly struck me just how useful the landscape orientation is - it's super easy to keep the thing open on the page that you want. The rule book itself is a piece of art with so many pretty pictures. The models, as always, are insanely detailed. Good stuff Dave! The dog tag and T-Shirt are the cherry on the cake.
I feel like the small delay has been totally worth it. I have never backed a Kickstarter involving physical goods before (yes, even though I have quite a few of Mantic's minis), and can irrevocably say that it was worth every penny. I do hope that, if Hawk attempts more Kickstarters, they do not become dependent on them for every future endeavor. It seems as though the odd one-off big project would be a great idea now that they've done their first. (Please let it be a 30mm skirmish set in the DZ universe! One can dream...) Hawk Wargames, from what I've received, you've done a ruddy good job - well done!
I hope that everyone else's pledges arrive correctly and in good time.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I will add that the parcel required signing, so perhaps Hawk has information of the parcel's whereabouts on their end.
Edit: just noticed that I had used there instead of their. This is unacceptable!
Dave has been over at Beasts of War for a number of days, and we are hoping that many of you will have seen the update to backers that was on the recent Weekender video. But for those of you who haven’t seen the video or the reviews on it about the Rulebook, we have put together some information below. There will also be a range of videos coming out over the next few weeks with various focuses, whether that is gameplay, spaceships or space stations!
Kickstarter Fulfilment Update
As many of you will have seen, we have been packing and dispatching a plethora of orders, with many leaving the Hawk Warehouse on a daily basis! Our UPS and Interlink drivers have had to make several return trips with larger vans to pick up what have been going out!
Over the past 2 weeks the team at Hawk have been hard at work packing and dispatching Kickstarter pledges for Dropfleet Commander, and although we are making good progress, the logistical complexity of processing 4000 individual orders is proving to be very time consuming, and though this was planned for, the delay caused by the printed elements has further delayed the shipping, more than recently anticipated.
We have increased the number of warehouse staff and secured additional warehouse space to help expedite the delivery process, as well as sending down a number of our own ‘elite team’ to help move and pack items. We wish to emphasise that the delays in fulfilment are no way due to lack of fulfilment stock and are purely reflective of the volume of orders to be processed mixed with the delay in receiving the printed material.
Dropfleet Commander Wave 1 Retail Release
Most of you will be aware that the wave 1 of the Dropfleet Commander retail release is scheduled for the 14th of October and unfortunately it is likely that there will still be some Kickstarter pledges awaiting delivery at this point.
Since the retail release consists of around a dozen pre-arranged bulk shipments of stock to distributors, delaying wave 1 of the release would not actually speed up the Kickstarter fulfilment process. This is a hard pill to swallow for us, as we have put so much effort into endeavouring to get this Kickstarter delivered before release, but we also have to be conscious of the game and with agreements made with our distribution partners.
We will, therefore, be proceeding with wave 1 of the retail release on the 14th of October as many wheels are in motion for it, and we hope that you, as our backers, will understand that we are doing everything in our power to ensure completion of the Kickstarter fulfilment in October.
What are we doing to Prioritise Kickstarter Fulfilment?
In addition to the hiring of temp staff, increased warehouse space and deployment of the Hawk elite team, we have taken the decision to defer wave 2 of the retail release. Whilst the deferring of wave 1 of the retail release would not impact Kickstarter fulfilment, pushing back the wave 2 release does mean that the warehouse staff allocated for manufacture of the battleships can be reallocated to Kickstarter fulfilment as a priority.
We are also withdrawing the sale of promotional stock at our Dropfleet pre-release events, and will be focusing every available member of the Hawk Wargames team toward the completion of the Kickstarter fulfilment in October.
We appreciate the patience and understanding shown by you, our backers, and our supporters as we reach the final stages of delivery. It has been a big process, but we are extremely proud of the finished product and we hope that when it reaches you, you will find that it was worth the wait.
Here is the video from Beasts of War if you would like to see it - Hawk Wargames Content begins at around 1:03:50:
We can't wait to get Dropfleet Commander rewards out to you all!
Kind regards, and thank you for all of your support!
The Hawk Wargames Team
Would quite like to know just what the elite team entails, I now just have an image of Space Marines packing for the Emperor. I can fully understand their commitment to shipping wave 1, hopefully others will feel the same. Pushing back wave 2 also makes perfect sense. Well, thought this was worth posting here for those who may of missed it. Have yet to watch all of the Beasts of War video - can't wait to see the others coming up.
from what was said on the BoW show the elite team is basically the people from hawk based in London a number of who are going to be sent up to their warehouse site in Birmingham to do the packing etc
Elite team probably means Simon and Patrice and the like.
I just realised I'm probably a little caught out. My plans originally was to get my kickstarter, inspect the minis and build some lists to see if I really need a second starter set to flesh out my UCM and Scourge fleets.
It's going to be hard to figure that out now without losing the preorder discount opportunity for the new starter set
I was a bit disappointed by the BoW video. Especially in the beginning there seemed to be a lot of attempt at damage control, only instead of much that sounded like contrition on their part for not meeting their claimed goals in the time they promised they sounded like they were trying to rhetorically frame the issue as though the kickstarter backers who are unhappy are the trouble-makers. All this talk about being flexible, when we're the ones who payed the money, it doesn't sit well with me.
The worst part is that for all Hawk has told us, the problem was with the rulebook being delayed. And then they tell us all these things that are being added to the rulebook. Now, the approach rules, yes, those sound excellent and I can see that they probably only could have been added with playtesting so I understand the necessity of a small delay to include them. But rules about integrating this game with DZC and rules for space stations - these were implied to be goals for the game for the get-go so why weren't these rules written ahead of time? It really sounds like poor planning on Hawk's part. And now the space stations which were initially portrayed to be such a small part of the game are now necessary for half the scenarios?
Again, it all comes down to communication. If they would have just communicated to us what was going on and admitted when they made mistakes, I'd probably be able to forgive it. But with them being so tight-lipped about why things aren't working and then making it sound like the Kickstarter backers wanting their product are the cause of their trouble when we are the cause of their success so far is really quite galling.
Apparently it was communicated at the wayland open day that they wouldn't be done despatching pledges until the front end of November which will be 3-4 weeks after the retail release. If your an Australian backer you could well end up not seeing this before well into December.
They messed up delivery times, communicated poorly and reneged on their promise to deliver kickstarter rewards before shipping retail and haven't apologised. Not impressed.
Well, I think the last few updates made everything a lot more clear in regards to what is going on, what they are planning to do and what caused the delays, but I do agree that a "sorry" would have been nice.
Nonetheless, I still do not hold it against Hawk. This is a huge project for a small company and they are working really hard to produce an awesome product. That there are some setbacks and problems along the way should not diminish that. Though I do hope Hawk learns from it for the next time they decide to do something like this.
Had a look at a friends copy of the game on Thursday and made a small order of the 2 player set and a PHR Starter fleet to see how it works. Looks very pretty
A range of rules for orbital scenery These add greatly to reasons for manoeuvring and provide a plethora of tactical options for players. Most of the game's scenarios incorporate some orbital scenery and we find it improves the gaming experience greatly. Most common is Debris Fields, a constant threat in wartorn orbits of the Cradle Worlds. These come in Fine and Dense varieties, each bringing their own opportunities and challenges. For example, Fine types are particularly dangerous to strike craft, whereas Dense ones do more damage to ships that fly through them. There are also Planetary Rings (essentially, a fine strip of debris bisecting the table) and Large Solid Objects (LSOs), being small moons, orbiting asteroids and massive orbital plates. Since scenery is now integral to the game, the 2 Player Starter Set now also includes punch out card Fine and Dense debris fields!
Pleased to see this as terrain has always been an important and extermely positive element of all our previous Space ship battle games - BFG, ACTA and Full Thrust
Communication has been awful - has anyone in the US been notified that their order has been shipped? At this point, it looks like I'll be receiving my stuff way after retail, which is an incredible bummer.
Thokt wrote: Communication has been awful - has anyone in the US been notified that their order has been shipped? At this point, it looks like I'll be receiving my stuff way after retail, which is an incredible bummer.
I haven't gotten anything on my order yet, which is disappointing. A tracking number would really help given my hectic work schedule of late.
Retail release goes live in the USA today as apparently one store has confirmed they have stock and will be putting it out on sale today.
So all those backers who haven't received their pledges yet are now effectively being excluded from the community the retail release that couldn't be moved was supposed to build.
UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote: Retail release goes live in the USA today as apparently one store has confirmed they have stock and will be putting it out on sale today.
So all those backers who haven't received their pledges yet are now effectively being excluded from the community the retail release that couldn't be moved was supposed to build.
I don't think people in my local tabletop community will exclude me from playing DfC just because my fleet arrives two or three weeks after the official launch of the starter sets. Mainly because most people that I know are interested in DfC have the same issue - waiting for the pledge reward to arrive. But even if people went and bought the starter boxes now it's not like the cool kids are the ones that got their plastic toys before 2016/10/14 and anyone else isn't allowed to play with the cool kids.
I can't understand why everyone is complaining and crying about. No communications, product going to stores before Kickstarter orders have been done.
No one is to blame but yourselves. After all this is not the first time it happened and sure it will not be the last. You should have known this could have happened. After all did Dave give anyone a guarantee? He is not the saint as a lot of you made him out to be.
Next time maybe you only support someone who actually has product out and support him that way instead of almost like every other kickstarter that fails and is the same story over and over again.
"WHAH where is my product. It's late. No communication."
I don't think anyone has right to complain. After all almost all of you should know how Kickstarters work and should have expected this. Yes it sucks and wish people were not like this but again, you have no one to blame but yourselves.
UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote: How can you play games of dropfleet commander with no minis?
How can you learn the rules without the rulebook?
How can you discuss the new background without the rulebook?
Yes, you can't start assembly and playing right now. You don't have access to the game. You can still watch others play in your local community or even ask them to let you play with their fleet for a game. Your claim was that people are being excluded from the community just because their boxes arrive 2-3 weeks late.
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Davor wrote: I can't understand why everyone is complaining and crying about. No communications, product going to stores before Kickstarter orders have been done.
No one is to blame but yourselves. After all this is not the first time it happened and sure it will not be the last. You should have known this could have happened. After all did Dave give anyone a guarantee? He is not the saint as a lot of you made him out to be.
Next time maybe you only support someone who actually has product out and support him that way instead of almost like every other kickstarter that fails and is the same story over and over again.
"WHAH where is my product. It's late. No communication."
I don't think anyone has right to complain. After all almost all of you should know how Kickstarters work and should have expected this. Yes it sucks and wish people were not like this but again, you have no one to blame but yourselves.
Of course you have a right to complain if something is handled wrong.
BUT: Products release late all the time. Including those that you preordered. Deal with it. Kickstarters ARE notorious for having a risk of delivering late.
If that's really important to you, you probably shouldn't preorder or kickstart anything as you'll get dissappointed a lot.
I'll rather have a fully tested, functional product a week or three late than an unfinished, rushed product on time. That's just my personal preference, though.
I also don't consider a KS project "failed" just because they delivered a bit later (not: a year later) than expected. It happens with enterprise level projects with 7-figure-budgets, of course it's going to happen to smaller projects, too.
Davor wrote: I can't understand why everyone is complaining and crying about. No communications, product going to stores before Kickstarter orders have been done.
No one is to blame but yourselves. After all this is not the first time it happened and sure it will not be the last. You should have known this could have happened. After all did Dave give anyone a guarantee? He is not the saint as a lot of you made him out to be.
Next time maybe you only support someone who actually has product out and support him that way instead of almost like every other kickstarter that fails and is the same story over and over again.
"WHAH where is my product. It's late. No communication."
I don't think anyone has right to complain. After all almost all of you should know how Kickstarters work and should have expected this. Yes it sucks and wish people were not like this but again, you have no one to blame but yourselves.
Anyone who paid for this product has a right to complain. Please don't tell us what right we do or do not have.
This kickstarter didn't fail, so I don't get why your eluding to that?
Sure, it is expected KS are usually late, but to be fair, they did promise many many many times in updates that they will not sell retail product until KS backers got theirs. That is why many are upset over it.
So no, we are not to blame for their product being late. That is like blaming my dog for pooping on the carpet but everyone refused to take it outside when it needed to...
Of course you have a right to complain if something is handled wrong.
BUT: Products release late all the time. Including those that you preordered. Deal with it. Kickstarters ARE notorious for having a risk of delivering late.
If that's really important to you, you probably shouldn't preorder or kickstart anything as you'll get dissappointed a lot.
I'll rather have a fully tested, functional product a week or three late than an unfinished, rushed product on time. That's just my personal preference, though.
I also don't consider a KS project "failed" just because they delivered a bit later (not: a year later) than expected. It happens with enterprise level projects with 7-figure-budgets, of course it's going to happen to smaller projects, too.
This again is just a piss poor attitude to it. How will you ever help change the market if you just accept its always a crap shoot? People being upset and voicing it helps to improve how a company functions, as without its happy customers, they cease to exist.
GW is a perfect example. Sure its taken years and years, but there has been enough pissed off people that they are actually (slowly) improving their business for the consumer.
As to your fully tested comment, that was not the issue. Their issue was getting the book printed. It had nothing to do with the balance of the game or rules etc. So it coming weeks ago would make it the same game as it slowly coming out now.
Someone walks into rush hour traffic and gets hit and then complains they got hit by a car. Great logic there. You walking into rush hour traffic and get hit, you have no right to complain.
In other words you took the chance you take the responsibility what happens or doesn't happen. In the case of walking in rush hour traffic you are crazy enough to do so you shouldn't be complaining if you get hit.
Just like in a Kickstarter, if you should know you might not even get your product. To complain about it, you should have never bought into it in the first place.
Then again, I guess I am wrong I shouldn't have used the words "don't have a right". I was wrong there. I should have just said "You should have known better than buying a kickstarter". So to complain knowing how kick-starters are is nobody's fault buy your own.
Kickstarters are often late, thats a given, but thats not what is annoying people.
Hawk have constantly been pushing the date to the right and have only sporadically been letting their backers aware. The most serious issue though is that Hawk have repeatedly and explicitly stated that backers would get their pledges before the general retail release.
I am still waiting for my stuff (with no email) and the official retail release date is Friday. Its looking very much like Hawk has lied to me.
Hawk have constantly been pushing the date to the right and have only sporadically been letting their backers aware. The most serious issue though is that Hawk have repeatedly and explicitly stated that backers would get their pledges before the general retail release.
I am still waiting for my stuff (with no email) and the official retail release date is Friday. Its looking very much like Hawk has lied to me.
So, in summary, it is NOT that this Kickstarter is late.
It is that backers were told (x), and (x) isn't happening.
And (x) here is, again, NOT that it would ship by (y), but that the backers would receive their pledges before retail.
I appreciate that, Davor! I don't want to give Hawk a hard time, but it was hard to explain this to the local gamers I'm splitting my pledge with. Hopefully they'll knock it out and it will be only a few weeks out of order!
Not even getting a tracking number is a pretty large fail on their part. If I had that at least I'd have a idea. I'd also be far less POed. It stings for the fact the warstore has the retail release and has already shipped people who bought it there the starter, while I sit hoping each day I'll come home to my pledge.
Of course you have a right to complain if something is handled wrong.
BUT: Products release late all the time. Including those that you preordered. Deal with it. Kickstarters ARE notorious for having a risk of delivering late.
If that's really important to you, you probably shouldn't preorder or kickstart anything as you'll get dissappointed a lot.
I'll rather have a fully tested, functional product a week or three late than an unfinished, rushed product on time. That's just my personal preference, though.
I also don't consider a KS project "failed" just because they delivered a bit later (not: a year later) than expected. It happens with enterprise level projects with 7-figure-budgets, of course it's going to happen to smaller projects, too.
This again is just a piss poor attitude to it. How will you ever help change the market if you just accept its always a crap shoot? People being upset and voicing it helps to improve how a company functions, as without its happy customers, they cease to exist.
GW is a perfect example. Sure its taken years and years, but there has been enough pissed off people that they are actually (slowly) improving their business for the consumer.
As to your fully tested comment, that was not the issue. Their issue was getting the book printed. It had nothing to do with the balance of the game or rules etc. So it coming weeks ago would make it the same game as it slowly coming out now.
I was speaking in general terms. For this KS it would probably mean "a not properly lectored rulebook with misaligned prints on low quality paper instead of the finished product we will get". And you completely ignored my introduction of "you have a right to complain", didn't you?
They handled communications very poorly and it's really unfortunate that I'll be able to buy a starter kit tomorrow at Spiel while my own pledge is still somewhere in Great Britain, waiting to be shipped.
All I'm saying is that KS are notorious for being late and if it's just the "it's late" part that annoys you, you really should stay away from crowdfunding and just wait until the product hits retail. Which, in hindsight, would've been the fastest way to get your starter fleets.
We are getting into our dispatches.
We had a small hiccup last week where a number of pledges went out without notifications going out to customers. It was our intention that tracking information went out with every order, so apologies if you get your order without any tracking – we have found the error, and are ensuring that all dispatches are going out with a notification to each backer regarding their pledge. Following on from the video and Kickstarter Update last weekend,
Dave wanted to share a typed message with you all:
Firstly, we have some Feedback on the Beasts of War Weekender Kickstarter update slot. Choosing to deliver the update in video format was a conscious choice as we thought it important to convey the news verbally and in a more personal manner. Beasts of War is an ideal platform for us as we do not yet have a sophisticated video setup of our own and we felt much of it was said best via this format. I had planned a visit to Beasts of War for the purpose of promoting Dropfleet Commander, and thought it was an important time to put out a video from me about the Kickstarter.
This video was one of the last I filmed while I was there. It was unscripted and unrehearsed and as a result I didn't quite cover everything I should have. Most importantly, I did not apologise directly for the situation - I am extremely sorry that the dispatch of the pledges has not gone to plan, and that this delay has affected so many people. Omitting a clear apology was entirely unintentional and for that I'm sorry.
In my time at Beast's of War I filmed some great content to support Dropfleet Commander. The next videos will be released on October 14th, so keep an eye out for those. We will do our best to inform you all ahead of time when future content is due to go out too. This has been a challenging experience for us all in the last few weeks, but we have tried to adapt quickly to the situation. Several Hawk staff who normally work on communications are now in the warehouse assisting with packing. Getting your pledges out as fast as humanly possible is our priority.
As stated in the video update, the first wave of Dropfleet Commander’s retail launch will be going ahead as planned on October 14th. Once again we apologise for the less than ideal nature of this arrangement. Supporting all of our community, including retailers who have places where people can play the game, is one of the cornerstones of Dropfleet Commander’s future, and is very important to us. The launch had been planed far in advance for a time when we had anticipated that all pledges would have been shipped. The printing delays and subsequent logistical challenges unfortunately prevented us for realising our intentions and the current arrangement is a compromise. We have also delayed the further retail waves to ensure as much of the entire team are focused on the Kickstarter fulfilment.
You should expect another update at the start of next week to include more information on when we hope to have completed shipments of all Kickstarter pledges. The team who are managing the shipment and packing logistics are very much more in control of the situation now that the printed materials have arrived, and although I visited the warehouse yesterday, the processes are well in place to know that the daily rate of dispatch has increased to a higher level than it was previously.
The absence of an update to the Hawk Wargames website to include Dropfleet Commander is a necessary result of the additional manpower dedicated to packing. Most staff at Hawk cover multiple roles and we are of course focused on dispatch as a first priority. In addition to a final shipping date we hope to have an estimated timeframe for the launch of the revised website by early next week. A key thing to mention here, is that while we will be taking orders on the site for Dropfleet Commander products, we will NOT be shipping ANY of them until we have honoured our commitments to our backers. This will be made clear on the website also!
The penultimate point to mention, is that our retail and distribution partner in Germany will be promoting Dropfleet Commander later this week and over the weekend at Europe's biggest board gaming/tabletop convention – SPIEL. A small Hawk Team not involved in the packing process (including myself) will be on hand to assist them with English language demos and to answer any questions attendees might have for us. As this is launch weekend, they will have a limited quantity of wave 1 Dropfleet stock on hand in addition to the complete Dropzone Commander range. We look forward to seeing some of you there! You can find us in Hall 2, at booth 2-F160.
Finally, I would like again to reiterate that we are doing our utmost to get your pledges out to you as fast as we can and to apologise sincerely for the delay in your pledges, for the delay in communication and for the retail release of the game coming before all the pledges had been sent out.
Thank you all for your continued support, understanding and patience,
- David Lewis,
Director, Hawk Wargames
Edit: Just noticed that Brunius posted the link already, but I'll leave the full text here for easy reading.
Alpharius wrote: And (x) here is, again, NOT that it would ship by (y), but that the backers would receive their pledges before retail.
I guess I see the issue, but I honestly don't quite understand why its such a big deal? If they held back the retail release, it would not get the product into the backers hands any sooner. Not saying you are wrong, but I've seen this on other KS and never really got it.
Maybe its just because its not a big deal to me that I'm not as sympathetic to those who see it as a major issue. I pledge to a KS because I think its a cool product that I want to see put into production, or because of the discount price and/or cool freebies included, not because getting it a week before it reaches retail matters to me. I do agree that they could have handled the communications better. That does seem to be a recurring problem with many KS.
Alpharius wrote: And (x) here is, again, NOT that it would ship by (y), but that the backers would receive their pledges before retail.
I guess I see the issue, but I honestly don't quite understand why its such a big deal? If they held back the retail release, it would not get the product into the backers hands any sooner. Not saying you are wrong, but I've seen this on other KS and never really got it.
Maybe its just because its not a big deal to me that I'm not as sympathetic to those who see it as a major issue. I pledge to a KS because I think its a cool product that I want to see put into production, or because of the discount price and/or cool freebies included, not because getting it a week before it reaches retail matters to me. I do agree that they could have handled the communications better. That does seem to be a recurring problem with many KS.
Well its because your told something over and over again, you then figure its going to happen like they said. For many KS, if you back it you usually get it before retail. That's part of the appeal and perk.
I would disagree though in you saying if they held it back. That's more bodies getting it sent out, not out demoing and selling in Speil(sp?) like Dave is among a few of his employees right now.
People asked him there, and currently he states they are shipping 75-100 shipments a day. The goal is to be done by the end of October.
I can see how people don't think of this as a big deal, but take a look at it from the backers perspective. Most people who ordered just a starter, or hardly anything got their stuff. People, like myself, among lots others who ordered 500$ worth of stuff or more have yet to see it. That's a good bit of cash tied up with no return for about a year now. The more you invent in something, the more you want to see it pay off when its supposed to. Had I just got a single starter, id proably not care at all. I could go out now and just buy a second one. But I got way more then that.
It is what it is. I just hope they truly learned from this.
Alpharius wrote: And (x) here is, again, NOT that it would ship by (y), but that the backers would receive their pledges before retail.
I guess I see the issue, but I honestly don't quite understand why its such a big deal? If they held back the retail release, it would not get the product into the backers hands any sooner. Not saying you are wrong, but I've seen this on other KS and never really got it.
Maybe its just because its not a big deal to me that I'm not as sympathetic to those who see it as a major issue. I pledge to a KS because I think its a cool product that I want to see put into production, or because of the discount price and/or cool freebies included, not because getting it a week before it reaches retail matters to me. I do agree that they could have handled the communications better. That does seem to be a recurring problem with many KS.
From the BoW video it's the Hawk staff who are packing rule books, sprues etc into boxes,
so for the retail release they've had to spend loads of time making up the starters/2player boxes etc, yes they'll have been a lot more productive doing so packing the much more complex KS orders, but if they'd just done the KS stuff it would been in backers hands sooner
although I do appreciate why they've chosen to prioritise the retail release they've already advertised as people (and distributors) are prone to sulk if stuff if delayed (and Hawk might just end up on the hook if places had organised events for the launch and loose out financially if the stuff doesn't show up)
so it sucks to be a KS backer in most cases, but (as a backer of lots of KS) it's something you have to be prepared to deal with along with the possibility of delays
Some free PDFs might be a soothing balm for burned backers. (It doesn't hurt to try, right?)
Anyway, the delay doesn't bother me personally, but it does worry me that DFC might not have the bright future I'd hoped it would. I don't want it to become the next Halo Fleet Battles.*
*Although the resulting drop in HFB expansion prices is a wonderful consolation prize.
MrDwhitey wrote: HFB died on arrival here. I have no idea how it's doing elsewhere.
I sincerely hope that's not the fate of this.
I never got in a single game of HFB. I just couldn't get through the rulebook. The ships were very nice, though not as nice as DFC's look to be. The product was a solid one, but it just never connected. The DZC rulebook was much easier to read through, for me, but I never got in a game of that either...
HFB died for a number of reasons.
1. Spartan Games - They already made not one, not two, but THREE Naval battle games. Including a Space Battle one. And like 3 editions of each, most with crippling design flaws.
Spartan drops games like a rock, and you're guarenteed to have a dead game within 2-3 years with them. They also don't learn from good game design at all.
2. Halo--- who cares? Yes, it's a popular game franchise. But the draw factor of the IP is counterbalanced by the limits of the IP. It's a game about space marines shooting aliens. Spaceships barely even appear in the games except as levels. Limited IP also means you don't have a lot of variety: You need to stick with IP.
3. Factions. There's two. Sure, more may be planned, but the game shipped with two.
--
DFC's trying to appeal to already established wargamers. Andy Chambers brings a lot of cred, and DZC is generally well regarded even if it's minorish on playerbase. It's also certainly mechanically a better game. 90% of the rules are known currently.
MrDwhitey wrote: HFB died on arrival here. I have no idea how it's doing elsewhere.
I sincerely hope that's not the fate of this.
The DZC rulebook was much easier to read through, for me, but I never got in a game of that either...
I'm $1k deep into DZC/DFC this year It has literally revived wargaming for me. DZC had everything I was looking for. I expect DFC to do the same for local groups missing the BFG days.
Besides that - if you want to contact HWG - they've responded within an hour or less if you DM them on instagram (odd, I know). The HWG forum mods are great guys as well if you can get approved - takes about a week.
For amount of botched KS's that we've read up on - you're getting a high quality product at the end of the month. Some shipping delays - eh, I can live with.
To the WS guy above:
Having gotten preorders from the Warstore before models were released - the Warstore is on top of their game in everyway compared to the majority of companies out there selling their OWN product. I can order obscure minis/resin bases/hobby tools and have them in a few days vs ordering from the parent company.
I really don't understand the logic of some people here. The unreliability of many KSs doesn't excuse poor business practices, it makes good practices *more necessary*.
Backing DFC's KS was a risk. Many of us have had money committed to it for almost a year now with nothing to show for it. There has to be *something* to justify that risk. Either we get the product sooner, we get the product cheaper, or we get to be deeply involved in the creation of a product we believe in. Hawk's lack of communication pretty well killed the last of the three, and these unexplained delays killed the first. With the kind of discounts retailers can give, is the middle still going to be true? If HWG ever tries to do another kickstarter, we'll all have to ask ourselves with how badly this one was bungled if it's worth it to back another.
Now, it's good that they finally made an apology. The patient's not bleeding out any more - I'm not getting *increasingly* angry about what they're doing. But an apology alone doesn't solve the problem. That's the question that everyone is asking right now, what is HWG doing to fix this? Their only answer in their sporadic communication bursts essentially boils down to "We're doing more!" But until we see our product, doing "more" isn't enough to solve this problem.
I did the math, and for me at least, I paid the same as I would've at the local discounter for my pledge...almost exactly. Then I've got bonus sprues (equivalent value almost half of my pledge again), battlecruiser/s (not yet released to retail), plus I supported it (which matters to me, though possibly not to others).
I think the hangup for a lot of people is that they treat KS like a preorder. KS is not a preorder. Part of the risk is delays, paying more, or having vaporware. I was fairly confident it wouldn't be the last, but the other two were entirely possible.
This is not to say that (in hindsight) they couldn't have done several things better. For example, they could've communicated better, and learning things through the BoW videos was extremely annoying to me. Ultimately they're doing the best they can, and hopefully improving, so that next time (if there is a next time) they know what to avoid.
I get why some people are irritated at the lack of communication and it needs to improve substantially if HWG wants to make the move into something more than a fringe game/gaming company.
That said, they make amazing models and have very balanced rules. The level of thought that goes into development is impressive and they do listen to the community with regards to feedback. Updates to rules for DzC have been posted online for free and terrain sets are available for very reasonable prices. They also make an active effort to support the FLGS, which can easily be overshadowed by kickstarters & online sales. All in all, I see the framework for everything I want in a gaming company, but do acknowledge that they're going through growing pains. The bottom line is I have no doubt that my stuff will be shipped sooner or later and if something goes wrong that they'll take care of it, even if it's not as timely a response as I'd like. It may not be perfect, but I don't think anyone is thinking that they won't get their stuff either. That puts the DFC kickstarter somewhere between "awesome" and "dumpster fire" depending on your point of view. Given their lack of experience and small size, I think that's to be expected.
I've been giving them my money since the pre-orders for DzC after Salute back in 2012 (mega armies of PHR & UCM) and will continue to do so because they make models that are fun to paint and games that are fun to play.
I agree. After 100+ Kickstarters, I just pledge and forget. Every so often I have to go back and check to make sure I didn`t miss any pledge managers. If something is late, I really don`t care, because I`m drowning in miniatures and RPG`s already. I`d much prefer quality over schedule.
I got to play at Spiel today and lets just say i now have another phr Starter Fleet to last me until my pledge arrives. The game is even at the Demo level lots of fun and you could see how the full rules ( and not turning the burn through cruiser for free to get the demo game finished quicker) would work, too
Yep, now that I have a pretty much near full picture of the rules, this is easily my primary Starship combat game now over FSA, HFB and BFG. I am very interested to see how meta forms for this game and the different tactical tricks and fleet loadouts people will make use of. Is a lot of possibilities..!
GenRifDrake wrote: Yep, now that I have a pretty much near full picture of the rules, this is easily my primary Starship combat game now over FSA, HFB and BFG.
Can you please explain. Since I was going to do a Resistance army and not having any Resistance in Droplet Commander I lost interest in it. What makes this game so great. I haven't played any space fleet game in ages, and was thinking of trying Star Wars Armada or the new Halo. What makes this game so great? I might see if my FLGS can order this and get into it.
GenRifDrake wrote: Yep, now that I have a pretty much near full picture of the rules, this is easily my primary Starship combat game now over FSA, HFB and BFG.
Can you please explain. Since I was going to do a Resistance army and not having any Resistance in Droplet Commander I lost interest in it. What makes this game so great. I haven't played any space fleet game in ages, and was thinking of trying Star Wars Armada or the new Halo. What makes this game so great? I might see if my FLGS can order this and get into it.
I asked about the resistance and they say that you should just paint up your ucm or phr as resistance. For now there are no plans for a resistance fleet, but they are not saying never
GenRifDrake wrote: Yep, now that I have a pretty much near full picture of the rules, this is easily my primary Starship combat game now over FSA, HFB and BFG.
Can you please explain. Since I was going to do a Resistance army and not having any Resistance in Droplet Commander I lost interest in it. What makes this game so great. I haven't played any space fleet game in ages, and was thinking of trying Star Wars Armada or the new Halo. What makes this game so great? I might see if my FLGS can order this and get into it.
I asked about the resistance and they say that you should just paint up your ucm or phr as resistance. For now there are no plans for a resistance fleet, but they are not saying never
I would not be surpised to see a unique ship or two would make sense.
Honestly, with even 5 people, they should be able to ship 300 a day easily. They'd have to be working really short days with few people to only get 100 out, and it'd take them over 5 weeks.
GenRifDrake wrote: Yep, now that I have a pretty much near full picture of the rules, this is easily my primary Starship combat game now over FSA, HFB and BFG.
Can you please explain. Since I was going to do a Resistance army and not having any Resistance in Droplet Commander I lost interest in it. What makes this game so great. I haven't played any space fleet game in ages, and was thinking of trying Star Wars Armada or the new Halo. What makes this game so great? I might see if my FLGS can order this and get into it.
It is a mix of things. Overall the game is rather easy to understand it's core concepts, how shooting workings, manuvering, launching fighters/bombers etc etc. But there is alot tactical depth to it despite this with the Order system plus the Scan and Signature system for determining if you have range/lock on an enemy adds a lot of decision making since any order beyond Silent Running and Standard Orders adds energy spikes to you making you more exposed. It is not just simple "I have X" range, are they in range, no? okay then" deal, spiking your energy signature up to Major suddenly your ship has an extra 12" on it's signature, and that ship that was an outlier previous can now also shoot you etc, as well as mechanics and ways to add spikes to enemy targets you may wish to target priority etc etc.
The fleet building is also great in that I find it rather open and flexible as to what you can take, but often fleet building to try and fit EVERYTHING in becomes very hard and still forces you to make choices, which I appreciate as someone who likes to field the pretty starships he likes the most aesthetically, but still makes me have to make some decision making in what I put in. Can't speak for Star Wars as I never touched that but DFC is also shipping with a whopping amount of ship variety, more than Halo has currently definitely.. halo's fleet roster is rather.. limited still, with no word on when we can expect more ships.
Combined with how balanced the fleets look on face value (meta and time will ultimately see how truely balance is) it looks like a very well made and put together Starship combat game, a lot better than how Halo feels to have turned out anyway definitely. Can't speak for Star Wars again as never played those games.
Edit: Also on the Resistence thing, I know the lack of Resistence irked many Resistence players, but when you think about it, it makes very little sense those guys have any sembalance of a fleet of starship combat force at all. They're not even united as Resistence but more like individual warlords and such on individual former UCM cradle worlds. Maybe they'll get something eventually, but I can understand why, as annoying as it is for Resistence players, they don't have a fleet/force in DFC.
GenRifDrake wrote: Yep, now that I have a pretty much near full picture of the rules, this is easily my primary Starship combat game now over FSA, HFB and BFG.
Can you please explain. Since I was going to do a Resistance army and not having any Resistance in Droplet Commander I lost interest in it. What makes this game so great. I haven't played any space fleet game in ages, and was thinking of trying Star Wars Armada or the new Halo. What makes this game so great? I might see if my FLGS can order this and get into it.
It is a mix of things. Overall the game is rather easy to understand it's core concepts, how shooting workings, manuvering, launching fighters/bombers etc etc. But there is alot tactical depth to it despite this with the Order system plus the Scan and Signature system for determining if you have range/lock on an enemy adds a lot of decision making since any order beyond Silent Running and Standard Orders adds energy spikes to you making you more exposed. It is not just simple "I have X" range, are they in range, no? okay then" deal, spiking your energy signature up to Major suddenly your ship has an extra 12" on it's signature, and that ship that was an outlier previous can now also shoot you etc, as well as mechanics and ways to add spikes to enemy targets you may wish to target priority etc etc.
The fleet building is also great in that I find it rather open and flexible as to what you can take, but often fleet building to try and fit EVERYTHING in becomes very hard and still forces you to make choices, which I appreciate as someone who likes to field the pretty starships he likes the most aesthetically, but still makes me have to make some decision making in what I put in. Can't speak for Star Wars as I never touched that but DFC is also shipping with a whopping amount of ship variety, more than Halo has currently definitely.. halo's fleet roster is rather.. limited still, with no word on when we can expect more ships.
Combined with how balanced the fleets look on face value (meta and time will ultimately see how truely balance is) it looks like a very well made and put together Starship combat game, a lot better than how Halo feels to have turned out anyway definitely. Can't speak for Star Wars again as never played those games..
Good accurate words
I also started a thread here for people's impressions of the game rather than news on it:
GenRifDrake wrote: Yep, now that I have a pretty much near full picture of the rules, this is easily my primary Starship combat game now over FSA, HFB and BFG.
Can you please explain. Since I was going to do a Resistance army and not having any Resistance in Droplet Commander I lost interest in it. What makes this game so great. I haven't played any space fleet game in ages, and was thinking of trying Star Wars Armada or the new Halo. What makes this game so great? I might see if my FLGS can order this and get into it.
I asked about the resistance and they say that you should just paint up your ucm or phr as resistance. For now there are no plans for a resistance fleet, but they are not saying never
That is good to know. I will keep my eye out on it. One of the reasons why I basically got out of Dropfleet (and a few others) not having a faction I like to play. I didn't get into the original 4 much but got into the Resistance for some reason. Maybe Phase 2 or more likely Phase 3 would have reasons why Resistance have space ships. Until it happens I guess I will just wait.
Not sure how the resistance differs in gameplay mechanics in dzc but if its just looks: run as ucm and paint, convert or use third Party or scratch build. Models dont matter gameplay wise
I was really hoping for a Resistance fleet too, or even just a few ships or guidelines / background on what they might look like. I'm happy with UCM but would love to see something like that
I've actually been considering painting up my UCM to look like they're in great disrepair to use in the role for now (and as possible allies later). Anyone have tips or examples of ships painted like that? With normal Resistance models, rust looks perfect, but I'm not sure if that is something that works for a ship scheme or if there's an analogous look, etc.
According to Reddit, tarnishing and corrosion do happen in space, reportedly especially in low-Earth orbit. The thread recommends a Google image search for "corrosion MIR" for pictures of how the MIR space station corroded with time. It's pretty interesting!
DFC is my first foray into a Hawk Wargame, so I don't know the background terribly well. How your ships should look I'd think would be a function of what metals the hulls are made of. Iron would give rust, aluminum seems to corrode into a speckly white that almost looks like salt or snow, though how you'd convey this at such a large scale is something I couldn't guess.
I'd think atmospheric vessels vessels like the New Orleans should have the most overt weathering/tarnishing, possibly scorching from repeated atmospheric entry. Cruisers should have less weathering and more battle damage with impromptu repairs. Perhaps once you've got a sprue in your hand, you could track down some old, small-scale battleship kits and swap out some turrets?
I just checked up in my DZC rulebook; all it mentions about the shipyards is that they're located in orbit of Niccolum, which is a gas giant whose rings 'proved a valuable prize for early explorers.' 'Countless mineral rich rocks circle Niccolum, containing rare metals at far higher concentration than found in typical planet crusts.'
str00dles1 wrote: For many KS, if you back it you usually get it before retail. That's part of the appeal and perk.
Its true many KS get you your stuff before it gets to retail. I just don't really understand why that matters so much? I mean, if we were getting our KS pledge 6 months before it went retail that might be something. Getting it a week or two before it hits the stores? Meh.
I would disagree though in you saying if they held it back. That's more bodies getting it sent out, not out demoing and selling in Speil(sp?) like Dave is among a few of his employees right now.
If they held it back they might not be selling at Spiel, but I'm sure they would still be there demoing the game. AFAIK, Spiel is the biggest gaming convention in Europe so any company with a new product almost has to be there.
I can see how people don't think of this as a big deal, but take a look at it from the backers perspective.
I am looking at it from the Backers perspective, as I'm a Commodore level backer myself.
Most people who ordered just a starter, or hardly anything got their stuff. People, like myself, among lots others who ordered 500$ worth of stuff or more have yet to see it. That's a good bit of cash tied up with no return for about a year now. The more you invent in something, the more you want to see it pay off when its supposed to. Had I just got a single starter, id proably not care at all. I could go out now and just buy a second one. But I got way more then that.
I can understand that you're disappointed in Hawk's handing of the KS and I'm certainly not saying you are not justified simply because it doesn't matter to me. Hopefully we'll all get our stuff soon now and can start gaming!
I won't be able to get my stuff until this Friday at the earliest as I am on exercise but I find it galling that the KS has been delayed so much that people are getting their stuff through standard retail channels before my pledge has even been dispatched. This is despite Hawk's many promises that this would never happen.
if my stuff hasn't arrived by Friday I am not going to bother with any future Kickstarters as clearly there is nothing to gain from them.
I understand people are annoying they're getting it after retail release, but it's not by much, and you're getting quite a lot of free stuff.
Eg, for the £60 pledge (which is already slightly cheaper than retail) you're getting a tshirt, a the credit, dogtag, plus another 20 ships for free. You're pretty much getting as much plastic for free as you're paying for. Not really a bad KS in my books
Saw some being disappointed no Resistance for Dropfleet. Dave did mention in past beasts of war vids that there will be no Resistance with ships. He stated that they hardly have the tech to use to fight plaentside, they don't have the manpower or tech to have fleets of ships - ever.
He did say though that while they wont have fleets, there can be missions of saving resistance people in transport ships for Dropfleet and the like, just no full army for them.
I can't understand people being upset about getting it a few weeks late.
A Kickstarter is not a pre-order system, it is quite common for pledges to be delivered much later than initially promised. You know this before you back. The main perks of backing a Kickstarter usually is not that you get stuff earlier, but rather that you can get stuff cheaper than at retail. For DfC this is certainly true with all the free stuff they are adding to the starter box. It is free stuff, so why complain?
Yeah, I didn't have the capitol to back the game, but I really can't see the problem with "not getting it before the retail customers do" when you are getting twice the product- plus exclusives that will never be available again- that they are paying for.
This Kickstarter barely had any hiccups compared to many, many of them. I backed Sedition Wars. Imagine Dropfleet shipping with a rulebook that was already out of date and had flaws, and you had to pay additional funds for the up-to-date one. Which then also sucked.
Iron_Captain wrote: I can't understand people being upset about getting it a few weeks late.
A Kickstarter is not a pre-order system, it is quite common for pledges to be delivered much later than initially promised. You know this before you back. The main perks of backing a Kickstarter usually is not that you get stuff earlier, but rather that you can get stuff cheaper than at retail. For DfC this is certainly true with all the free stuff they are adding to the starter box. It is free stuff, so why complain?
I backed the kickstarter, and I'm not concerned about my stuff coming after retail as much as we are already 4 months past the expected date, stuff is shipping and I still don't know if my order is coming. I backed this particular kickstarter in part based on the reputation of the people in question and my confidence that they would pull it off in a professional manner, which for the most part they did. The models look fantastic and I'm eagerly awaiting a chance to look over the rules. That being said I'm basically stuck now waiting for my stuff to arrive when I could have bought the rules from a local store day one, and the ships I wanted (barring the KS exclusives) the same day. Yes, I'll get some extra frigate sprues, but I'm still stuck essentially in the back of the line despite my early contribution, with no clear date to look forward too aside from the same nebulous "Soon" that i've had for a while now. That is what is irritating, going to the end of the line when I took the risk to back the KS in the first place.
Let's get back on the specific topic - Dropfleet Commander fulfillment (or Dropzone Commander news) - rather than general discussion of Kickstarter practices. We've covered that pretty sufficiently by now
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I'm curious, does anyone in the U.S. have a tracking number, and if so what was your pledge level?
As a backer/victim of the ultimate "backers first" dick move in the Robotech Kickstarter, I feel for backers here as well but I have some questions. Did they make the promise to ship to backers first BEFORE the kickstarter campaign ended? If not, it wasn't really a factor in your pledging. If they made it after the fact (which seems to be what was posted a few pages ago.. I can't attest to its veracity though), it still is quite unfortunate for backers that they had to retract that later promise but not as bad as if they had made it earlier. I see comments about a lack of communication as well and I can empathize on that but I think folks need to look at the intent behind the breaking of the promise. Did they seem to actually try as hard as they could to keep it? That seems to be the case reading the updates posted here and their intent wasn't to screw over backers months in advance (unlike with Palladium's Robotech where they manufactured and shipped ONLY retail bound products for the first few containers).
Again, while it sucks it reads like a series of unfortunate events mostly beyond their control. It also sounds like it will only be a matter of weeks (and not weeks to 6+ months like with Robotech) so that should mitigate the response as well. I'm not coming here to start a robotech pity part (we already have 400+ pages of that elsewhere) but rather to put it hopefully a bit more in perspective.
Again, if I'm wrong about the timing of the "backers first" promise, let me know as that would change my feelings a bit (although frankly not much as I don't feel that Hawk as a company or Dave as an owner has any contempt for his customers unlike a certain someone else).
Warboss, it's right there on the Kickstarter page:
We are committed to quality and speed of delivery, but also loyal to our backers; it is our intention not to put any of the kickstarted game elements up for sale through retail until all backers have received their pledge levels.
That said, we really have beat this horse to death by now - let's stick to discussing actual shipping news, and ideally news of the game as soon as folks have their hands on it / have any more info to share
From the Facebook group postings, there are reports of received lieutenant packages and delivery notifications for others including admirals.
The exception seems to be Commodore level pledges which there have been no reports (that I've seen) confirming that they've gone out anywhere, much less the US.
From what I've seen posted in a couple of places it looks like not all the add ons are ready yet and this could be why they are leaving orders with add ons until last. There have been admiral orders delivered with notes listing items like map packs and the acrylic tokens as 'to follow'.
nobody wrote: The exception seems to be Commodore level pledges which there have been no reports (that I've seen) confirming that they've gone out anywhere, much less the US.
Your words, they're like a dagger in my heart.
Of course the best pledge is the last to go out...
nobody wrote: The exception seems to be Commodore level pledges which there have been no reports (that I've seen) confirming that they've gone out anywhere, much less the US.
Your words, they're like a dagger in my heart.
Of course the best pledge is the last to go out...
Yeah. I'm starting to wonder if that has to do with it using the Starter Fleet kits that went out to retail.
By the way: I picked up a PHR starter fleet at Spiel, but I'm missing the Cruiser Assembly instructions - anyone got those scanned in? I managed to assemble one cruiser by using pictures of the ship, but having the proper instructions would help a lot for the other two.
nobody wrote: The exception seems to be Commodore level pledges which there have been no reports (that I've seen) confirming that they've gone out anywhere, much less the US.
Your words, they're like a dagger in my heart.
Of course the best pledge is the last to go out...
Yeah. I'm starting to wonder if that has to do with it using the Starter Fleet kits that went out to retail.
By the way: I picked up a PHR starter fleet at Spiel, but I'm missing the Cruiser Assembly instructions - anyone got those scanned in? I managed to assemble one cruiser by using pictures of the ship, but having the proper instructions would help a lot for the other two.
Somebody posted these on the Dropfleet Commander Community facebook page, in reply to somebody else who had picked it up at essen and was missing assembly instructions:
Well if you extrapolate what they've supposedly sent so far, which has been the easier to pack pledges, they will be into December before all pledges are sent.
Seems like the distributors and retailers aren't having any problem getting restocked though
It's almost as if a standardised prepackaged set could be done in some sort of factorial type location whereas a large number of personalised completely bespoke packages needs a more careful manpower intensive approach.
Compel wrote: It's almost as if a standardised prepackaged set could be done in some sort of factorial type location whereas a large number of personalised completely bespoke packages needs a more careful manpower intensive approach.
I wouldn't make as big a deal of this, certainly not so much as to call the KS packages "bespoke". It's not like we're getting custom battlecruisers that are a few mm shorter or longer than standard so as to match the length of a user's hands while they hold the models. It's more like assembling an order of various goods, and since I have heard a rumor that Hawk Wargames does have their own web store, they should be used to that. It's not even that difficult because most of the components that make up the order are going to be standardized.
I guess the good news is that since they claimed the lack of tracking numbers was an early error on their part that they've since corrected, maybe when the commodore pledges do come out they'll finally be on track with that. Though I still haven't heard any rumors of people getting email notifications that their packages have shipped yet.
JOHIRA wrote: I guess the good news is that since they claimed the lack of tracking numbers was an early error on their part that they've since corrected, maybe when the commodore pledges do come out they'll finally be on track with that. Though I still haven't heard any rumors of people getting email notifications that their packages have shipped yet.
Compel wrote: It's almost as if a standardised prepackaged set could be done in some sort of factorial type location whereas a large number of personalised completely bespoke packages needs a more careful manpower intensive approach.
whoa whoa you're about to start a revolution, in an industrial sense
Got my shipping notification today with a tracking number. Says it is being sent by UPS. Given my experiences with UPS and FW shipments I am rather worried about the import gouging I'm looking at.
Eldarain wrote: Got my shipping notification today with a tracking number. Says it is being sent by UPS. Given my experiences with UPS and FW shipments I am rather worried about the import gouging I'm looking at.
So much detail. Fun to assemble. Wonderful spaceships.
Seriously though, the UCM Cruiser Sprue is genius. Nearly every horizontal join is covered by another panel or antenna or something. Brilliantly designed and needs nearly no clean-up.
Frigate Sprue is great and fits ultra tight. Only downside is that the light mass drive turrets have a tricky cut.
The Scourge Cruiser sprue's pretty good, but you need to fix the gap between the 'nose' and the 'tail'. The wings go on great though.
Still waiting on a notification for my Captian pledge. It's pretty obvious that Hawk's warehouse was woefully inadequate for this large of a shipment. Should have contracted out fulfillment, I guess.
Yeah, but they're doing okay, and despite it being slow, every day there's more notices of shipments arriving or notifications being sent out. That's still better than other companies where you hear nothing.
Oh, packages are going out, but the initial estimate of three weeks for shipping was obviously pie-in-the-sky optimism. At the 500-600 per week we've heard from several sources it looks like seven-eight weeks plus 2-3 more for late backers. Since it took them less then two weeks to get retail out to distributors, we're definitely low on Hawk's priority list (not surprising given they already have our money).
The thing is the reason is took two weeks to get it out to retail and much longer to backers is that it's like 4 bulk deliveries to suppliers, and that's it. They're much easier and faster to pack, and pretty much a factory line. In comparison, every single kickstarter pledge needs a personal address, shipping details inputting into courier systems, and each pledge checking to make sure it's correct.
Duskland wrote: Oh, packages are going out, but the initial estimate of three weeks for shipping was obviously pie-in-the-sky optimism. At the 500-600 per week we've heard from several sources it looks like seven-eight weeks plus 2-3 more for late backers. Since it took them less then two weeks to get retail out to distributors, we're definitely low on Hawk's priority list (not surprising given they already have our money).
One thing I have to say, seriously (and not as a fanboy) is that Hawk has shown me nothing but overwhemingly excessive care and concern previously in customer service. They're slow, due to few people. This is well known.
But as an example, I bought a starter set for Dropzone Commander Resistance. One of the models had a mild miscast: A hovercraft transport had a door that was a bit bent and had a mold line, and that hovercraft had a pit from moulding where some piece probably broke off during transit or packaging. That's it. The rest of the box (6 bases of infantry, 9 land vehicles, 2 air transports) were all perfect.
I mentioned this to them in an email, asking for a replacement door. I fixed the pit with some greenstuff.
I wait three weeks.
Then I get in the mail a box, containing a NEW starter, plus some promotional limited edition models and an apology note.
That's insane. They just gave me ~80$ worth of product, because I had an issue with two pieces. Won me over from there on the customer service standpoint.
So from that basis, I really do assume they're slow because it takes more effort to ship customized KS packages than bulk package box-sets of identical goods and mailing them to a distributor
winnertakesall wrote: The thing is the reason is took two weeks to get it out to retail and much longer to backers is that it's like 4 bulk deliveries to suppliers, and that's it. They're much easier and faster to pack, and pretty much a factory line. In comparison, every single kickstarter pledge needs a personal address, shipping details inputting into courier systems, and each pledge checking to make sure it's correct.
And however annoyed at the comms I may be, with international backers there's also all the relevant customs forms to ensure are filled out properly which vary by country. Messing those up will lead to even more delays and costs for those backers, so it's important to get them right.
I don't think it shows that the backers are a "low priority" so much as it shows how slow Hawk was to realize they had a major problem with a crucial supplier. Leaving aside the unknown nature of what the real problem there was, that Hawk was so slow to communicate is what I find fault with. The "oh, well...we broke a promise we made" attitude also bothers me; while that is certainly not unique to Hawk it gets more grating as more companies think that it's okay to do that. I understand a couple month delay may not be worth any physical goods, but surely there's some sort of mea culpa to be offered in the form of some scenarios or rules or artwork or design notes or...something.
Asterios wrote: most definitely wish i pledged for this instead of RRT :(
Well, that's not a bar to clear so much as a trench to step over...
Killionaire wrote: So from that basis, I really do assume they're slow because it takes more effort to ship customized KS packages than bulk package box-sets of identical goods and mailing them to a distributor
That's true. The problem with that is, It's nearly a year now since their Kickstarter started. Even if they had met their original deadline, they would have had about 7 months to prepare for this. They have their own online store, so they definitely have experience shipping out individual orders around the world. They knew what was coming. Why didn't they get ready for it?
So much detail. Fun to assemble. Wonderful spaceships.
Seriously though, the UCM Cruiser Sprue is genius. Nearly every horizontal join is covered by another panel or antenna or something. Brilliantly designed and needs nearly no clean-up.
Frigate Sprue is great and fits ultra tight. Only downside is that the light mass drive turrets have a tricky cut.
The Scourge Cruiser sprue's pretty good, but you need to fix the gap between the 'nose' and the 'tail'. The wings go on great though.
Gorgeous scheme! Care to share how you painted them?
Saw this in the store today. Because of the above pic, I ended up buying it. I just hope I can do the minis justice. Dang that box is heavy, I wasn't expecting it to be that heavy.
*edit*
I just like to make sure since there was a larger rule book beside the last box I took, is the rule book in the boxset exactly the same as the bigger rule book? I am not missing out on anything except for the book being smaller and my guess smaller print?
It's exactly the same, it just comes in a cardboard packaging to have a display image that is in Portrait for retail purposes as the book itself is Landscape.
So much detail. Fun to assemble. Wonderful spaceships.
(snip)
Seriously though, the UCM Cruiser Sprue is genius. Nearly every horizontal join is covered by another panel or antenna or something. Brilliantly designed and needs nearly no clean-up.
Frigate Sprue is great and fits ultra tight. Only downside is that the light mass drive turrets have a tricky cut.
The Scourge Cruiser sprue's pretty good, but you need to fix the gap between the 'nose' and the 'tail'. The wings go on great though.
Gorgeous scheme! Care to share how you painted them?
Gracias!
They're really straightforward. The minis take to paint beautifully.
Primed white using Duplicolor Automotive Sandable (best primer can TBH)
Used P3 'Ironhull Grey' + 1 drop thinner for the dark grey upper panel components
Used P3 'Greatcoat Grey' + 1 drop thinner, 1 drop glaze medium for the lower green-grey understructure
Used Reaper 'Leather White' for upper white pating
Used GW Nuln Oil on all surfaces that are not white, and to do plate edges
Used GW Earthsade on the engine cowlings for extra shade.
Cleaned up with a pure white on edges where needed.
Used a crimson red for the trim panels.
Used arcane blue, plus dots of lighter white-mixed arcane blue for engines and the intake glow.
Well, the latest backer email has gone out, with more announcements that shipping still isn't done yet, and more apologies. Commodore pledges are supposed to start going out this week.
The thing I don't get is why they keep talking about sending employees from the company out into the warehouse. In the UK are temp workers not a thing?
Actually they said "the remaining Commodore pledges. In fact, if I wasnt out of town, I would have had mine in my hands yesterday, nevermore it having been dissipated. Instead I'm getting it redelivered from DPD next week.
JOHIRA wrote: Well, the latest backer email has gone out, with more announcements that shipping still isn't done yet, and more apologies. Commodore pledges are supposed to start going out this week.
The thing I don't get is why they keep talking about sending employees from the company out into the warehouse. In the UK are temp workers not a thing?
You actually trust temp workers with something like this? Talk about a disaster waiting to happen. Being paid minimum wage you really get what you pay for. How are you going to make sure all those orders are 100% correct? People get what they want and nothing missing or even being sent to the right people or not damaged when the temps will just throw the boxes around?
Davor wrote: You actually trust temp workers with something like this? Talk about a disaster waiting to happen. Being paid minimum wage you really get what you pay for. How are you going to make sure all those orders are 100% correct?
Have someone who works directly for the company confirm the package is packed correctly?
People get what they want and nothing missing or even being sent to the right people or not damaged when the temps will just throw the boxes around?
Most warehouses I've been in, pretty much anyone can collect the parts to assemble a package no matter how qualified. You only need someone with experience and skill to confirm the package is assembled correctly and the slap the shipping label on it.
JOHIRA wrote: Well, the latest backer email has gone out, with more announcements that shipping still isn't done yet, and more apologies. Commodore pledges are supposed to start going out this week.
The thing I don't get is why they keep talking about sending employees from the company out into the warehouse. In the UK are temp workers not a thing?
You actually trust temp workers with something like this? Talk about a disaster waiting to happen. Being paid minimum wage you really get what you pay for. How are you going to make sure all those orders are 100% correct? People get what they want and nothing missing or even being sent to the right people or not damaged when the temps will just throw the boxes around?
lord_blackfang wrote: Wow, that's some extreme level -ism, assuming minimum wagers can't even put stuff from a list into a box. Classism maybe?
It's not that minimum wagers can't do the job, thing is being a temp worker all the time and just being walked over like you are nothing because you can't be hired full time means you just don't care to put in the extra effort especially if being paid at minimum wage. Maybe temp workers mean something different for you guys, but here in Ontario, sadly that has become the norm now and it's very hard to get a good paying job since a lot of companies now want temp workers so they don't have to hire you full time.
Minimum wage, no benefits, no security, you really expect to people to put in the extra effort and make sure every thing goes smoothly? I really doubt that Hawk War games will be paying someone $20 an hour to make sure a job like this would be done properly. As the saying goes, you want something done properly, you do it yourself. And something like this, and being late, you need to make sure there are no mix ups now.
I am sure Hawkwar games is dong the best they can do right now. They just want to make sure everything is done properly instead of doing something cheaply and rushed.
lord_blackfang wrote: Wow, that's some extreme level -ism, assuming minimum wagers can't even put stuff from a list into a box. Classism maybe?
It's not that minimum wagers can't do the job, thing is being a temp worker all the time and just being walked over like you are nothing because you can't be hired full time means you just don't care to put in the extra effort especially if being paid at minimum wage. Maybe temp workers mean something different for you guys, but here in Ontario, sadly that has become the norm now and it's very hard to get a good paying job since a lot of companies now want temp workers so they don't have to hire you full time.
Minimum wage, no benefits, no security, you really expect to people to put in the extra effort and make sure every thing goes smoothly? I really doubt that Hawk War games will be paying someone $20 an hour to make sure a job like this would be done properly. As the saying goes, you want something done properly, you do it yourself. And something like this, and being late, you need to make sure there are no mix ups now.
I am sure Hawkwar games is dong the best they can do right now. They just want to make sure everything is done properly instead of doing something cheaply and rushed.
Your really blowing my mind on this. Its just so incorrect...
Regardless of money, there have been at least a dozen or so accounts (or more that are unreported) on the Facebook group saying they have already had problems with their pledge. Things missing, sent wrong pieces ordered, etc. These could be full employees making way more then 20$ a hour and there is, and always will be problems. Every company has the problem. Cool Mini and their million kickstarters have issues. People, again regardless of $ are inherently imperfect. Its how it goes.
lord_blackfang wrote: Wow, that's some extreme level -ism, assuming minimum wagers can't even put stuff from a list into a box. Classism maybe?
Having been exposed to numerous minimum wage fast food employees who could not assemble an order correctly, I don't think its an unjustified supposition.
Got my Captain pledge. Everything looks very nice. No idea if everything is there, such a mountain of sprues. Will have to take an inventory when possible.
I joke, but really the way Hawk Wargames keeps making promises and pushing them back and then not communicating with customers, I wouldn't know of any way to tell if there's a problem until they announce the kickstarter shipping finished. But at least you can take some small comfort in knowing you're not the only one who hasn't heard a peep about their pledge.
Got my shipping notification, with a tracking number!
The email came from sales@transglobalexpress.co.uk and the tracking link leads to a UPS tracking page that says it's going out tomorrow. Unfortunately to my old address as I wasn't able to update, but I know the folks there and will be keeping a close eye out
Will keep you all updated! Note my pledge is a Captain with add-ons from the pledge manager, but my local friend's Commodore pledge hasn't shipped yet.
Its nice and depressing to see people from UK get their Commodore pledges.
Means US "should" be soon but at this point ill feel lucky if its before Christmas.
and yea, as a broken record, their communication is total crap. Would be nice as a weekly update to say how many they got out, or where most are shipping to...etc
Well they have mostly not been packing backer pledges as they have been busy fulfilling the multiple re-stocks to retail and sending out the next wave of retail releases. But they don't want people knowing that so they just lie in their backer updates.
Such things are scheduled far in advance, and people are still getting their stuff.
This isn't the same as a company going dark with no communication and no shipping, then quietly releasing to retail. I just got my tracking notice yesterday, for example. So the stuff is going out.
If you're going to brag about your tracking number, at least mention your pledge level. Are they shipping US commodore pledges yet?
(While we're at it I'd like to state this is the last gaming Kickstarter I think I'll ever back. No point in getting a discount on a product if it shows up so far in the future I've stopped caring about it, I have too many other projects going on already anyway)
If you're referring to my post, I mentioned my pledge level (Captain). I don't think anyone's trying to brag... just trying to share some info since there's so little coming from Hawk (obviously they're putting everything they can into shipping, but a quick status update would probably be very appreciated by all the backers still waiting).
I haven't received my commodore pledge yet either, so it is not just the US.
Also, I'd like to remind people of the fact that Kickstarter is not a store. If you back a Kickstarter, you do this knowing that there is a risk that the product may show up much later than promised or never at all.
In fact, delays happen for most Kickstarters. If you don't want that uncertainty, you should indeed probably not back Kickstarters but wait for retail instead.
Iron_Captain wrote: I haven't received my commodore pledge yet either, so it is not just the US.
Japan commodore pledge here. I expect I'll get it after everyone else unless there's some poor fellow in Vanuatu who got on board, too.
Also, I'd like to remind people of the fact that Kickstarter is not a store. If you back a Kickstarter, you do this knowing that there is a risk that the product may show up much later than promised or never at all.
In fact, delays happen for most Kickstarters. If you don't want that uncertainty, you should indeed probably not back Kickstarters but wait for retail instead.
I'm getting really sick of this argument. Being a Kickstarter does not excuse terrible service. Being a Kickstarter does not excuse promising one thing, not delivering, waiting a month, then promising another thing, not delivering, waiting a month, repeat ad nauseum. This kickstarter has been bungled.
It's also pointless and counter-productive to paint unhappy kickstarter backers as people who "don't want uncertainty". This doesn't have anything to do with uncertainty, this is bad for business. I backed DFC thinking it was a good game. I was hoping with my commodore pledge to get some multiple fleets assembled, introduce it to some Japanese gamers who don't follow English gaming news, and hopefully build a market for it over here. God knows the miniature gaming scene here needs some variety. Unfortunately, since Hawk Wargames missed the window of when I had enough free time away from work to get lots of painting done and since they apparently can't be bothered to take proper care of the customers who made this whole project possible, I'm rather disgusted by the whole thing now. They had an incredible opportunity and they blew it by not taking the details seriously.
Also, I'd like to remind people of the fact that Kickstarter is not a store. If you back a Kickstarter, you do this knowing that there is a risk that the product may show up much later than promised or never at all. In fact, delays happen for most Kickstarters. If you don't want that uncertainty, you should indeed probably not back Kickstarters but wait for retail instead.
I'm getting really sick of this argument. Being a Kickstarter does not excuse terrible service. Being a Kickstarter does not excuse promising one thing, not delivering, waiting a month, then promising another thing, not delivering, waiting a month, repeat ad nauseum. This kickstarter has been bungled.
It's also pointless and counter-productive to paint unhappy kickstarter backers as people who "don't want uncertainty". This doesn't have anything to do with uncertainty, this is bad for business. I backed DFC thinking it was a good game. I was hoping with my commodore pledge to get some multiple fleets assembled, introduce it to some Japanese gamers who don't follow English gaming news, and hopefully build a market for it over here. God knows the miniature gaming scene here needs some variety. Unfortunately, since Hawk Wargames missed the window of when I had enough free time away from work to get lots of painting done and since they apparently can't be bothered to take proper care of the customers who made this whole project possible, I'm rather disgusted by the whole thing now. They had an incredible opportunity and they blew it by not taking the details seriously.
No, it doesn't excuse anything. But it is something that happens a lot with Kickstarters nonetheless and it has everything to do with uncertainty. It is easy to make promises on Kickstarter, but sometimes the realities of life make them hard to keep. A lot of companies tend to tell their estimates to the backers in order to provide them with information, but when those estimates have to be adjusted due to reality that angers the backers, even if the company can't really do anything about it. I guess the problem is companies (and backers) putting too much confidence in their estimation. Hawk at least is very guilty of that. It is not malice or incompetence, but rather overenthusiasm and overconfidence. No one can know the future, and that is something that should always be kept in mind with Kickstarter. In general I think that it would help if companies would be more clear about the risks inherent to a Kickstarter project and that any given dates can only be rough estimates at best and that delays are to be expected. And in the case of Hawk, it would really help if they'd communicate more. Really Hawk, for God's sake, please tell us how the shipping is moving along and why it is taking so long. I am getting really annoyed at the lack of updates. This is definitely a big smear on an otherwise great project and company.
The Hawk shipping practices have thoroughly turned me off from the company.
The original kickstarter is late, which I can understand. But, in the meantime, I changed addresses.
So, I emailed Hawk wargames in early October asking for a shipping address change. I got no response.
Two weeks later, I emailed them again. They said that:
- They don't know the shipping status of my order
- It is too late to change the address
- They couldn't tell me the carrier or tracking number (which would have been generated if a shipping order was placed, even if not shipped)
- And wished me good luck contacting the shipping company after the item shipped.
That's inexcusably bad service.
Furthermore, I don't know if I will actually get a tracking number when Hawk ships. There has been several times in the shipping window when the tracking numbers were not sent to the customer.
Which means, I am waiting for:
- A shipping notification which may or may not come, and I probably won't know about a notification error as Hawk doesn't tell people about them when they happen.
- When (if?) I get the shipping notification, I then to argue with the shipping company about an address change
Meanwhile, Hawk, which through the delayed shipping made this a problem, could have changed the address on their end.
In summary, the delayed shipping, total lack of updates, and multiple stories of everyone who joined post kick-starter getting their own games and building / playing with their ships...
I'm fed up with Hawk wargames. I'd like to buy more of the DFC in the next few years, but I don't want to reward a company with bad communication and customer service. And, shipping to retail outlets a month + before the kickstarter finishes shipping leaves a real bad taste in my mouth.
The fact that its nearly Mid Nov and there's still lots of people in the UK not getting theirs makes me think maybe ill get mine next year being in the US. And I truly do believe that, with how busy the holidays will get shipping will be a nightmare.
I now know not to trust them, and wont ever back another one of their kickstarters, if they ever do another.
Good rules, great models, good values, but horrid, terrible way the company functions/runs. If I could honestly cancel my pledge I would. I could take that money, and go buy the same stuff I can already buy at retail save resin city pieces, which will be on sale soon anyways.
I hold GW in better light then Hawk as at least they deliver
CalgarsPimpHand wrote: If you're going to brag about your tracking number, at least mention your pledge level. Are they shipping US commodore pledges yet?
(While we're at it I'd like to state this is the last gaming Kickstarter I think I'll ever back. No point in getting a discount on a product if it shows up so far in the future I've stopped caring about it, I have too many other projects going on already anyway)
Based on what I've been seeing in the DFC Facebook group, the short answer to your question is yes (ie, there have been a number of folks based in the US posting in the FB group that they have received their Commodore pledges). There appears to be no rhyme or reason to the order in which the pledges are going out; region, country, and pledge level have little to do with the order in which backers are receiving their stuff.
I'm right there with you, though! Still eagerly awaiting a shipping notice for my Commodore pledge .
The fact that its nearly Mid Nov and there's still lots of people in the UK not getting theirs makes me think maybe ill get mine next year being in the US. And I truly do believe that, with how busy the holidays will get shipping will be a nightmare.
I now know not to trust them, and wont ever back another one of their kickstarters, if they ever do another.
Good rules, great models, good values, but horrid, terrible way the company functions/runs. If I could honestly cancel my pledge I would. I could take that money, and go buy the same stuff I can already buy at retail save resin city pieces, which will be on sale soon anyways.
I hold GW in better light then Hawk as at least they deliver
Yeah, it is frustrating, especially since Hawk has not put out any updates since the 2nd. However, I'm still optimistic that I will get my stuff in the next week or two; there are plenty of folks here in the US that have been getting their stuff, so I don't see that in and of itself being a limiting factor. In the mean time, I'm just going to try to be patient. While I am anxious to get my hands on all my shiney new spaceship models, its not like I'm in any danger of running out of things to paint . As long as I can get my stuff in time to paint it up for a local event that is scheduled for the 28th of Jan, I will be happy. That may very well be my first chance to play the game, anyway.
The light at the end of the tunnel is in sight! I got the shipping notice for my Commodore pledge today. For those wondering, I'm in the US, in the Washington DC area.
Just be ready that as soon as you get your notice the package arrives really quickly! I received the notice on the 10th saying it would ship on the 11th, and received it on the 14th. That's nuts, with a weekend in the middle too! Delivery was via UPS.
Unfortunately it's at my old address but I'll be picking it up from the folks there tomorrow
USA. Commodore pledge shipped Tuesday, arrived yesterday (UPS Express, one day air to the airport a few miles from my house). I wasn't home when they attempted delivery, so I have to go pick it up today.
I received a shipping notification but did not receive the delivery. Sort of stuck now as I'm getting no response from the delivery company or Hawk themselves.
JOHIRA wrote: So at this point is there anyone left whose hasn't been shipped out?
From this and the masses of comments on the FB group, a lot of people still waiting, myself included. Someone in the same state and county as myself got theirs, but yet I hear nothing from Hawk
Wow, I'm really sorry to hear that from all of you. I assumed being on the other side of the planet I'd be the last.
Hopefully everyone's orders get filled this week. It would be absolutely inexcusable for a Kickstarter promising a June fulfillment to still be shipping out orders in December.
Also, wasn't "printed material" the excuse for the delay in the first place? I'm finding tons of proofreading errors in my rulebook that really should never have made it out the door. I haven't spotted any rule-related issues yet, but then I've not been closely looking at the rules yet and since I've not had any time to build my fleet or play a game I don't know if I'd notice them if I did. I hope not though, because if the rules are written as the background this game is going to need a hefty errata.
Yeah, having gotten the box the sprues are awesome, but the fulfillment has been disappointing... I'm not sure when the other local gamers will get theirs so it really makes starting to try it out a bear!
The latest Kickstarter update is live. Looks like Hawk is making progress on getting pledges out:
"Update #59 For backers only.
Dear Backers
I am writing to you on behalf of the whole team at Hawk Wargames, who have been working incredibly hard to get the pledges out.
Firstly, we realise we have let people down: the delay in the delivery, the release of the first wave of Dropfleet Commander into retail before dispatching all pledges, and the poor communication.
We want to address a few questions that people have had, or issues that have been raised. Some of these should have been communicated before, and others are only able to be seen on reflection:
1. Real numbers: we have around 550 pledges left to pack, and another 180 (on top of this that are already packed) left to process for shipping. We expect, based on our rate of between 110-250 packed pledges per day, that we should be able to finalise all packing this coming week. We will put out another update with the revised numbers that need packing and shipping at the end of this week.
2. The process of shipping is not as simple as we had previously intended. This is the first time we have ever managed a dispatch process of this scale, and a number of things have not gone to plan during this process, including:
The system we used for processing addresses and pledges was not suitable for the scale of this Kickstarter. This has led to us having to process every pledge manually, therefore adding considerable time to the shipping process.
The process for entering addresses into our courier system did not work effectively, and all our information is being added manually to create labels and shipping forms suitable for every shipment, again which has added to the delays.
There are a number of shipping and address queries that have not been resolved which are delaying a few pledges being sent out. We will be contacting some backers regarding these in the coming week.
3. We will be doing a full review of this Kickstarter once we have dispatched every pledge.
4. Our Team: We have 6 members of our own team who have been regularly packing and shipping pledges since we have started this process, along with another 4 members of staff who were doing regular pre-packing of sets and rewards. This left the Hawk Wargames team with only one member of staff to manage all communication to backers, along with all normal customer service communication. When we began the packing process, there was such a large amount of pre-packed product that we only had space to create two packing stations in our warehouse for boxing the pledges. This is why the progress was slower early on, but as we processed more and more of the pledges, we were able to create more packing stations, and therefore pack pledges at a higher rate.
5. Why weren’t we at Warfare 2016 in Reading? We decided, very late on and with very little notice, that we were not going to attend this event to ensure that as many of the team as possible could keep packing and dispatching pledges. This was a difficult decision to make, especially as we had a Dropzone Commander tournament at the event, and it was deeply regrettable that we have put ourselves in this situation, however we are committed to doing everything we can to get all the pledges out as quickly as possible.
6. The lack of communication is the most significant part of this Kickstarter process that we are aware of our mistakes and have learnt a lot from. Going forward we are aware that we need to commit to this more, and will be making every effort to give more time to communication to you all, (so long as it does not significantly negatively impact on the packing and shipping of pledges).
The final thing is to apologise once more for the delays in backers’ pledges, for the lack of more regular and transparent communication, and for the retail release of wave 1 before all pledges were sent out to backers. We are confident in the quality of the game and in what we have produced, and this has always been the priority for everyone at Hawk Wargames in the creation of Dropfleet Commander.
You shall hear from us again in an update at the end of this coming week.
Provided every single backer gets their pledge (at least round 1 of the pledge as maps were pushed to another wave) I can see this horrid process and backer hate blowing over by the start of next year.
With the holidays being stressful, having a game you've been looking forward to play (and lots more time off during holidays to play) in hand can quickly change heart.
Well, likely around 15% of backers don't have their stuff yet; there's some wiggle room there as I'm not really accounting for late backers and just shaving the percentage a bit based on number of pledges. 110-250 seems like a wildly variable rate, but then again the locations and contents of the pledges are wildly variable. Hopefully I'll get my shipping notice this week, and to their credit the packages seemingly arrive quickly after they're shipped.
The issues really sound like they boil down entirely to basic logistics. The software didn't work right, foreign shipping is overly complicated, couriers are a PITA to deal with, etc. It really drives home the idea of testing workflows long in advance of need, where some of these issues would likely have outed themselves when they weren't "house-on-fire" problems that had to be routed around immediately. Hawk is not the first organization to encounter them, nor are these problems seemingly unique as I think most major campaigns run across them. Working for an organization that regularly fails at the same basic logistics, I can sympathize even if it's annoying. The grating part is simply that it sounds like numerous other campaigns; the smart man learns from his own mistakes while the wise man learns from the mistakes of others.
In terms of the future, I recall the first Bones had issues with shipping that hit many of the same points (giving that horse another whack), and it's worth noting that Reaper seems to be doing okay still. While I'm not sure I'd extend KS levels of trust to Hawk, I don't think they've burned the bridge badly enough that it's an impossibility. They've not covered themselves in glory though.
I think they're doing awesome, but given the posts here I think it's much higher than 15% that don't yet have their items. My understanding from the update is that they're almost done packing... but I don't think that translates into being done shipping.
Most people I've spoken to haven't received their items yet... I'm glad I have, but it can't just be anecdotal - they've got a ways to go on shipping yet! However, the fact that this update was so open and they're making another at the end of the week is a fantastic sign. People just want communication, I think, and to know if they should be on the lookout / etc!
RiTides wrote: I think they're doing awesome, but given the posts here I think it's much higher than 15% that don't yet have their items. My understanding from the update is that they're almost done packing... but I don't think that translates into being done shipping.
Most people I've spoken to haven't received their items yet... I'm glad I have, but it can't just be anecdotal - they've got a ways to go on shipping yet! However, the fact that this update was so open and they're making another at the end of the week is a fantastic sign. People just want communication, I think, and to know if they should be on the lookout / etc!
I am one of the ones still waiting.
One of the things I think a lot didn't understand is just how small Hawk really is. In the last post they finally show that when he mentioned there was essentially one dude in the office running the company which means answering a crap ton of emails, dealing with distributors and other companies, managing events, and keeping the ship moving forward.
The last email message we got would have been sent at 3 AMUK time. They have probably all been really busting their asses non stop to get orders shipped. Getting 4k boxes moved was always going to be a huge hurdle even without all the problems they have faced. Getting them all packed away though makes things significantly easier and stuff will ship much quicker now. I bet we will probably see all boxes hitting shipment right around friday or next week.
It has been and continues to be frustrating because it is one of those hey this isn't really one of my problems things. Their plan to get everyone's stuff to them was obviously a dud. However, I am still a big fan of Hawk and I will continue to be because of everything they have already done.
Once we get to next week it is likely we will see the website get changed and the game finally getting properly promoted. It is going to be exciting!
I even got a shipping notice for something from england which got me super pumped up.. unfortunately it was just the Twinings Tea I ordered for my wife :( stupid tea!
To add to the status checks:
While I've been being bad and buying starter fleets and boxes around here (sorry other NoVA gamers...), me and my roommates have also not gotten any notices or shipments on our commodore pledges.
RiTides wrote: I think they're doing awesome, but given the posts here I think it's much higher than 15% that don't yet have their items. My understanding from the update is that they're almost done packing... but I don't think that translates into being done shipping.
Most people I've spoken to haven't received their items yet... I'm glad I have, but it can't just be anecdotal - they've got a ways to go on shipping yet! However, the fact that this update was so open and they're making another at the end of the week is a fantastic sign. People just want communication, I think, and to know if they should be on the lookout / etc!
I am one of the ones still waiting.
One of the things I think a lot didn't understand is just how small Hawk really is. In the last post they finally show that when he mentioned there was essentially one dude in the office running the company which means answering a crap ton of emails, dealing with distributors and other companies, managing events, and keeping the ship moving forward.
The last email message we got would have been sent at 3 AMUK time. They have probably all been really busting their asses non stop to get orders shipped. Getting 4k boxes moved was always going to be a huge hurdle even without all the problems they have faced. Getting them all packed away though makes things significantly easier and stuff will ship much quicker now. I bet we will probably see all boxes hitting shipment right around friday or next week.
It has been and continues to be frustrating because it is one of those hey this isn't really one of my problems things. Their plan to get everyone's stuff to them was obviously a dud. However, I am still a big fan of Hawk and I will continue to be because of everything they have already done.
Once we get to next week it is likely we will see the website get changed and the game finally getting properly promoted. It is going to be exciting!
The expectation though is them hiring more min wage workers/temp workers to get it done. I knows pliantly of contracting companies that do this. They made a good bit of $$$ they could have hired on a staff to work X months and get it out quickly.
As mentioned above also, they had a issue with the book, but there's tons of crap wrong in it. Misspellings, sentences that are unclear or incomplete.
Id like to support them more, but it almost seems like a cruel joke its been delayed so long, TONS of Ks backers just buy extra retail stuff so they can play as they wait. If you have the income that's great, but I cant support giving a company more when I don't have what they owe me already
I was planning to buy more once my KS rewards came in and I could get a feel for which sprues had the best kitbashing potential, but the project is so delayed that I'm now interested in GW products again, and will probably just kitbash some Nid and Eldar bits into spaceships to scratch that itch. Will. Ever buy the DFC station sprues? It depends on if my hobby ADD comes back to DFC before the BFG reboot comes out.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I was planning to buy more once my KS rewards came in and I could get a feel for which sprues had the best kitbashing potential, but the project is so delayed that I'm now interested in GW products again, and will probably just kitbash some Nid and Eldar bits into spaceships to scratch that itch. Will. Ever buy the DFC station sprues? It depends on if my hobby ADD comes back to DFC before the BFG reboot comes out.
Ha, I was the same. As it kept getting delayed, our group decided to get into 30k and start a league for it. 2 Armies later now I'm very vested into GW. Money that I would have easily put into DFC
Still waiting for the shipping notice for my Commodore pledge.
I watched a video on the DFC battleships on YouTube the other night. Very nice looking sculpts but I'm wondering now it they will be available through retail before I get my pledge.
I received my Commodore pledge yesterday; no shipping notice from Hawk that I can find, but UPS did drop the "we'll be at your address tomorrow" so I was there to receive it at least. Shipped on the 24th, arrived on the 28th (obviously).
Haven't sat down to go through it completely, but the quality of the stuff I saw was fairly nice. Some really thick sprues is immediately what sprang to mind. I need to see if I'm short a battlecruiser or if it's mixed in with the "backer bonus" kind of bag. The resin stuff seems to be really nicely done as well. As expected, nice quality stuff with just some hang-ups in the fulfillment. I will likely snag some battleships when they become available.
Have we heard any timelines on when the map packs should be sent out? Skimming the updates I know they've been delayed, but I'm not sure I recall hearing when they're supposed to be shipping either.
I've pledged Commodore with a Space Station and 2 Launch Assets with plans to pick up a few PHR and UCM Battleships plus a 2nd PHR Starter Fleet. I got the PHR Starter Fleet at Spiel for 41€ which is 4 cent CHEAPER than the Starter Bolt-on of the Kickstarter is. And that's with a weakened GBP right now. The Battleships have been delayed until further notice and my pledge is nowhere to be seen. I wasn't a late pledger, I got in fairly early in the KS and I completed my Pledge Manager on January 20.
Well they only have like 200 orders to finish according to their email last week. So you should have your order soon, I only received mine last week. Sucks we were at the end, but somebody had to be.
That many orders to pack, but I think there are more than that left to ship (they mentioned the number of packages shipped last week included some packed the prior week). I've received mine, my local opponents haven't.
That said, the quality of the components is really high! Hopefully they'll be done packing this week and have them all shipped by next - which given the crazy fast 4-day ship time to the US would get them all delivered by the holidays. The weekly updates are a really good sign now, too.
Had a chance to assemble some UCM frigates this morning and they are quite easy to assemble; they barely feel like they need gluing at all. I won't go so far as to say my annoyance with Hawk is completely gone, but I am satisfied with the final product. Going to tackle a cruiser and some PHR tonight in all likelihood, and if they go as well as the frigates I'll likely be picking up a few BBs when they're available.
For all of the nobody who cares, I did eventually find the 4th Battlecruiser; Commodores pay close attention to the bags that have resin (I assume; haven't opened them yet) bits when checking your stuff!
I wish I could do ANYTHING to SOMETHING ... still waiting. I just can't believe how unlucky I have to be... I mean I have to be one of the remaining 1% or something.
RoninXiC wrote: I wish I could do ANYTHING to SOMETHING ... still waiting. I just can't believe how unlucky I have to be... I mean I have to be one of the remaining 1% or something.
I l8ve like 45min drive from their head office and still not received mine! I actually offerd to pop round there and pick it up, but apparently they are assembling and posting the pledges from a different part of the country!
I'm still waiting. After seeing on the kickstarter comments that some pledges didn't get moved form the pledge manager to the packing list and they had no clue they were missing I emailed them yesterday and again today. Still nothing. I guess the promise that all backers pledges would be shipped befor wave 2 battleships from update 60 will just be another lie for Hawk.
That does indeed seem to be another fumble from Hawk,
to postpone shipping the battleships to stores and tell everybody they won't go until the KS stuff is done
(both to respect the backers who they've had to let down and because the staff making them have been sent off to pack KS orders)
and now to have battleships appearing in stores with KS backers still without shipping notices or a general announcement that everything is out of the door (I wouldn't expect them to wait until everything had arrived with KS backers, but sent yes)
I do feel sorry for them a bit, because they're going to piss off someone regardless. If they keep delaying battleships, all the people who preordered battleships are going to moan, and if they keep delaying, all the people who kickstarted will complain (all very validly)
Hawk isn't a bit company, they may not really be able to afford not to have this stuff on the shelves. The problem is this has largely been a learning experience for a company that's usually been pretty good to their community and customers. Just become an issue when that learning experience is this big of a scale unfortunately.
Thebiggesthat wrote: Just a reminder that Kickstarter isn't a pre order service. Please desist from using it in future if this is your expectation.
You paid to get a game made, and in return you have been given content at a reduced rate. Enjoy.
Except plenty of companies use it as such . It's like a Q-tip, it says not to be used in ones ear, but what most people use them for is cleaning ones ear. They can say what they want, but if you are ordering what you want before it hits retail shelves to buy, then isn't that the definition of pre-ordering?
Thebiggesthat wrote: Just a reminder that Kickstarter isn't a pre order service. Please desist from using it in future if this is your expectation.
You paid to get a game made, and in return you have been given content at a reduced rate. Enjoy.
Can we please kill this meme? When the company promises you will get the product before launch if you support the Kickstarter, they are claiming to be a pre-order service. I realize in our nerd subcultures there's all kinds of tendency to blindly support the company that sells what we buy, but you are allowed to think Dropfleet is a good game without telling everyone who is unhappy with their service that it's somehow the customers' fault.
Thebiggesthat wrote: Just a reminder that Kickstarter isn't a pre order service. Please desist from using it in future if this is your expectation.
You paid to get a game made, and in return you have been given content at a reduced rate. Enjoy.
Can we please kill this meme? When the company promises you will get the product before launch if you support the Kickstarter, they are claiming to be a pre-order service. I realize in our nerd subcultures there's all kinds of tendency to blindly support the company that sells what we buy, but you are allowed to think Dropfleet is a good game without telling everyone who is unhappy with their service that it's somehow the customers' fault.
I think it is worth saying that there is a bit of leeway a KS deserves to accomplish these goals. It is just Hawk has already passed theirs. It was crap when they hit retail before all the backers stuff was shipped out. However, we have had like 3 message saying "guys we are almost ready for weeks now". And now we are at "wave 2", which is obviously there to ensure they make some Christmas sales, while they continue to blunder their way through shipping the last of the KS orders. It brings up the question how many KS orders were postponed to pack these ships and assets?
Its pretty gakky situation. They really need to finish this already.
They really do need to finish with this KS. I had my Commodore pledge placed on hold because of a glitch and it's been "processing" for a week and a half. Meanwhile, a friend just down the road has had his Commodore pledge for weeks and we've played games with it. It's safe to say I'm a little peeved with Hawk right about now.
).
One can dream...) Hawk Wargames, from what I've received, you've done a ruddy good job - well done! 
It has literally revived wargaming for me. 
. It's like a Q-tip, it says not to be used in ones ear, but what most people use them for is cleaning ones ear. They can say what they want, but if you are ordering what you want before it hits retail shelves to buy, then isn't that the definition of pre-ordering?