chaos0xomega wrote:
IMO looks weird if only some of your dudes have sculpted shpulders and the rest dont

+1

I agree completely.

If I could get sculpted emblems on Knights, I would be ecstatic.

Nah, I mix sculpted shoulder pads and decals plenty. It's a great way to add variety and fanciness to Your Dudes. Some guys get a couple decals with honor markings, some guys did something so cool they got a sculpted pad.

I thought the lack of standard chapters was a little odd, but they make dedicated sprues for those so they are certainly available. I've been meaning to pick up a bunch of them and really update a good chunk of my DW shoulders in general. This kit if nothing else is incredible for upgrading my Gravis collection.

Dudeface wrote:


The scorpions and scouts both came out in boxes of 10, surprising people who were all saying similar.

That might be because they're still in Kill Team boxes, not 40k boxes (I think). In Kill Team, if you're playing Scouts, you NEED nine models, so selling a KT box with five would be a bad look. In Kill Team, if you're playing the Aspect Team, you might need as many as eight Scorpions- you CAN get away with a mere five, but if you did, you'd need at least 3 models from either a box of Avengers or a box of Banshees, which would still be a bad look. There is a chance that once these models come out of KT rotation, they go into 40k boxes of five models each; when that happens, GW MIGHT shave a bit off the price to reflect the lesser value... But they also might not.

For the Deathwatch though, you're only allowed to play with five models at a time. Having 10 is nice, because you can build one of every option (except for the Gravis guy who has three builds- you'll have to pick which two you want), but if you have a mere five, you're still guaranteed to be able to make a team.

Still, you have eroded my certainty. I hope you are right, and there's a decent chance you will be.

 Prometheum5 wrote:
Nah, I mix sculpted shoulder pads and decals plenty. It's a great way to add variety and fanciness to Your Dudes. Some guys get a couple decals with honor markings, some guys did something so cool they got a sculpted pad.

Thats fine, doesn't mean other people like it or agree.

 LunarSol wrote:
I thought the lack of standard chapters was a little odd, but they make dedicated sprues for those so they are certainly available. I've been meaning to pick up a bunch of them and really update a good chunk of my DW shoulders in general. This kit if nothing else is incredible for upgrading my Gravis collection.

I think its stealth market research. See which chapters come up the most on social media posts and which ones have the highest price on the secondary bits market, then produce sets of them for sale.

chaos0xomega wrote:

I think its stealth market research. See which chapters come up the most on social media posts and which ones have the highest price on the secondary bits market, then produce sets of them for sale.

If that were true, Charcharodons would be an option.

 PenitentJake wrote:

That might be because they're still in Kill Team boxes, not 40k boxes (I think). In Kill Team, if you're playing Scouts, you NEED nine models, so selling a KT box with five would be a bad look. In Kill Team, if you're playing the Aspect Team, you might need as many as eight Scorpions- you CAN get away with a mere five, but if you did, you'd need at least 3 models from either a box of Avengers or a box of Banshees, which would still be a bad look. There is a chance that once these models come out of KT rotation, they go into 40k boxes of five models each; when that happens, GW MIGHT shave a bit off the price to reflect the lesser value... But they also might not.

This is absolutely what I expect GW to do with those kits. Scorpions in particular are setup in the same way as the other aspect warrior kits with 5 models and a token, and unlike more recent teams they were clearly designed as a 40k release then repurposed to fill a KT release slot instead.

Instead of £47.50 for ten models, expect something like £40 for five models in a 40k-branded box.

Killzone Tomb World article.

Basically it’s the same rules as Gallowdark (so enclosed, impenetrable walls etc) but with a bonus twist of teleporter pads and occasional zombie robots popping out of the walls in single player mode.

 Platuan4th wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

I think its stealth market research. See which chapters come up the most on social media posts and which ones have the highest price on the secondary bits market, then produce sets of them for sale.

If that were true, Charcharodons would be an option.

Fair. I was so enthralled by it having a Lamenters pad I didnt notice.

 modelhunter wrote:
What's the chances GWS muck this pre-order up like they did for Typhon KT and not have enough for genuine player and the scalpers?

They have, 100%. One FLGS I know of ordered 300 from GW. They are getting 24

Ugh.

Darksphere’s register of interest has failed me this time.

Not their fault, they say, “Unfortunately, due to very harsh allocations from Games Workshop, we will not be able to fulfil your request on this occasion.”

Looks like I’ll be tapping F5 furiously at 09:45 GMT…

Have to eat my words, deathwatch are indeed going to be sold in 5s, the box states that there are 2 sets of 5 minis included.

Being the super cool and trendy guy that I am I woke up this morning and decided to see how the preorders go, specifically the Tomb World boxed set. I have no interest in buying it but am interested to see how long it takes to sell out.

One thing of note is that on the UK website at least the preorders actually came up at 10am. Not 9:55, 10 on the dot. The last time I bought something on preorder (Ashes of Faith) it was up for sale at 9:55 and sold out by 10. Seeing as GW advertise it being available from 10 it's good to see them actually sticking to that time.

It's now 10:06 and it hasn't sold out yet. Hopefully it's available for a couple of hours so that whoever actually wants to buy it can.

El Torro wrote:
Being the super cool and trendy guy that I am I woke up this morning and decided to see how the preorders go, specifically the Tomb World boxed set. I have no interest in buying it but am interested to see how long it takes to sell out.

One thing of note is that on the UK website at least the preorders actually came up at 10am. Not 9:55, 10 on the dot. The last time I bought something on preorder (Ashes of Faith) it was up for sale at 9:55 and sold out by 10. Seeing as GW advertise it being available from 10 it's good to see them actually sticking to that time.

It's now 10:06 and it hasn't sold out yet. Hopefully it's available for a couple of hours so that whoever actually wants to buy it can.

It was available at 9:55 but you had to go into the Killteam page rather than the preorders - I ordered the Tyranid terrain at 9:55 and it was all there.Still available now anyway and only 1 of the 3 main stores here have sold out.

 DaveC wrote:

El Torro wrote:
Being the super cool and trendy guy that I am I woke up this morning and decided to see how the preorders go, specifically the Tomb World boxed set. I have no interest in buying it but am interested to see how long it takes to sell out.

One thing of note is that on the UK website at least the preorders actually came up at 10am. Not 9:55, 10 on the dot. The last time I bought something on preorder (Ashes of Faith) it was up for sale at 9:55 and sold out by 10. Seeing as GW advertise it being available from 10 it's good to see them actually sticking to that time.

It's now 10:06 and it hasn't sold out yet. Hopefully it's available for a couple of hours so that whoever actually wants to buy it can.

It was available at 9:55 but you had to go into the Killteam page rather than the preorders - I ordered the Tyranid terrain at 9:55 and it was all there.

Ah, ok. I was just looking at all preorders, not for a specific game system.

Silly me for thinking that the website would work as it's supposed to.

Most of the popular uk webstores sold out within seconds.

Yeah, I had it taken out of my cart at like three different places. Had to pay GW's full price in the end.

Plenty of Ebay sellers already offering the full box (mostly at prices higher than GW's website of course), as well as components. Just the Necrons, just the Deathwatch, just the terrain, etc...

 The Phazer wrote:
Yeah, I had it taken out of my cart at like three different places. Had to pay GW's full price in the end.

Same, this is the first time I've had to pay full price in a while.

At time of writing Boards and Swords Hobbies in the UK still have 6 copies left at £131.75: https://www.boardsandswords.co.uk/products/kill-team-tomb-world?_pos=1&_sid=53786d0d3&_ss=r

Edit: And they're gone

Element games said they'd got so few they weren't even offering it online

Important Information Regarding Kill Team: Tomb World Availability

Due to extremely limited stock, this product will only be available in our physical stores. If you are near London, Birmingham, Stockport, Sheffield, Nottingham, or Newcastle, a small quantity will be available at those locations. Should additional stock become available in the future, we will make the product available online, though at this time that does not appear likely.

I didn't check the GW website that regularly but by 11:15 it was sold out in the UK. So probably took about an hour to sell out. People were prioritising buying it elsewhere at a lower price of course.

Is anyone else surprised that the Necron team in the new box has an instant-death gun? Specifically the one that lets you roll 2d6 to beat the target’s remaining wounds to incapacitate them immediately; no damage, no saves just ded…

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Is anyone else surprised that the Necron team in the new box has an instant-death gun? Specifically the one that lets you roll 2d6 to beat the target’s remaining wounds to incapacitate them immediately; no damage, no saves just ded…

I don't know, it doesn't really feel any more scary than a meltagun shot to be honest.

I guess I’m not sure I like the idea of a thing that can kill without actually doing any actual damage getting added to the game as a regular gun.
Sure, one-off effects and environmental hazards, or narrative elements, but not on a rando opfor.
Plus there’s the issue of abilities that prevent incapacitation. If your operative just went from 11 wounds to incapacitation but suffered no damage and you use a “this operative isn’t incapacitated but remains with 1 wound” type effect do we just assume breaking free of the interdimensional teleport cost them 10 wounds?

Kill Team Dead Silence

A new expansion containing Wolf Scouts and Stealth suits https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/zhqmtpi6/wolf-scouts-and-stealth-battlesuits-fight-as-quietly-as-possible-in-kill-team-dead-silence/

Scouts, Space Wolves scouts specifically, are probably the only unit where I can tolerate Phobos armour, and yet, I can't help but think how much better those Wolves would look with normal power armour legs.

The Tau are... nice, I think? The high contrast paintjob with uneven wear and tear isn't doing them any favours.

Very nice on both sides.

Damn, those Space Wolves look excellent!

Do we think those are both full new kits, or a bonus frame in an existing box?

Wolves look to be unique from all the phobos kits I recognize. Don’t know enough about the tau.

 Nevelon wrote:
Do we think those are both full new kits, or a bonus frame in an existing box?

Wolves look to be unique from all the phobos kits I recognize. Don’t know enough about the tau.

Both completely new kits, yes.

Hmm, big fat Meh from me. I do like Space Wolves, but these just don't really do it for me. Feels like bare arms, or leather gloves instead of power armour gauntlets, are just differences for the sake of difference and don't really add anything. No point to it. They're just... marines. Assorted wolfy gubbins are OK I suppose. Tau stealth suits are boring, these are boring.

Mr Insomniac wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
Do we think those are both full new kits, or a bonus frame in an existing box?

Wolves look to be unique from all the phobos kits I recognize. Don’t know enough about the tau.

Both completely new kits, yes.

Yes, this. There’s no way the old stealth kit would support all those extras without adding enough parts to basically be a new kit anyway. The scouts are bare-armed Phobos in new poses so again enough spare parts to be a new kit.

Everyone looks good, regardless.

I think its kits like new reveners and ratlings

Do we want to guess on if the new kits will also build strpped down 40k squads? Like the ravners have both a basic and hyperadapted version?

 Nevelon wrote:
Do we think those are both full new kits, or a bonus frame in an existing box?

Wolves look to be unique from all the phobos kits I recognize. Don’t know enough about the tau.

Those XV-26 are a completely different kit from the current XV-25.

Crispy78 wrote:
Hmm, big fat Meh from me. I do like Space Wolves, but these just don't really do it for me. Feels like bare arms, or leather gloves instead of power armour gauntlets, are just differences for the sake of difference and don't really add anything. No point to it. They're just... marines. Assorted wolfy gubbins are OK I suppose. Tau stealth suits are boring, these are boring.

Bare arms is essentially what marks them as Scouts. That's been true of all the Scouts variants we've seen so far including these guys, the new Scouts and Crusader squads.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Nevelon wrote:
Do we want to guess on if the new kits will also build strpped down 40k squads? Like the ravners have both a basic and hyperadapted version?

Generally everything in Kill Team has gotten 40k rules of some sort. Still waiting on the Tomb World stuff though....

 LunarSol wrote:

Crispy78 wrote:
Hmm, big fat Meh from me. I do like Space Wolves, but these just don't really do it for me. Feels like bare arms, or leather gloves instead of power armour gauntlets, are just differences for the sake of difference and don't really add anything. No point to it. They're just... marines. Assorted wolfy gubbins are OK I suppose. Tau stealth suits are boring, these are boring.

Bare arms is essentially what marks them as Scouts. That's been true of all the Scouts variants we've seen so far including these guys, the new Scouts and Crusader squads.

Hopefully bare arms aren't that essential. Only the pack leader has them.

It's good that GW acknowledges that Space Wolf Scouts should have their own models, though.

New and different Tau suits are always welcome, just shows the variety/development of their tech

 Geifer wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

Crispy78 wrote:
Hmm, big fat Meh from me. I do like Space Wolves, but these just don't really do it for me. Feels like bare arms, or leather gloves instead of power armour gauntlets, are just differences for the sake of difference and don't really add anything. No point to it. They're just... marines. Assorted wolfy gubbins are OK I suppose. Tau stealth suits are boring, these are boring.

Bare arms is essentially what marks them as Scouts. That's been true of all the Scouts variants we've seen so far including these guys, the new Scouts and Crusader squads.

Hopefully bare arms aren't that essential. Only the pack leader has them.

It's good that GW acknowledges that Space Wolf Scouts should have their own models, though.

Huh, you're right. Didn't look that close. Now that I'm really looking at them, these guys are actually in Phobos armor rather than scouts.

There sure are a lot of tactical rocks lying around the corridors of Necron tomb worlds these days

Hmm...with a bit of work I could probably swap the Stealth Suit heads for Breacher heads for an appearance that's closer to the old XV15 suits.

I think the Tau guys look pretty neat. I was hoping they would put out a Crusader Kill Team to continue the Inquisitor line, like the Sanctifiers do. Space knights just seem so much cooler than Space Marines, doubly so now as all the Primaris armour types suck.

Hmm, it doesn't look like scout armour for me, more like the Phobos pattern. More marines isn't exactly what makes the game more interesting imho, but I guess it sells boxes...

It makes sense it’s phobos.

Scouts wear carapace not just because it’s light, stealthy, and more more maneuverable then normal power armor, but also because the do not have the black carapace implanted, which allows marines to mesh seamlessly with their armor.

Wolf Scouts are not novices, but full marines with all the implants. So it makes sense they get phobos armor, which has all the same perks as scout armor, and better protection and integration.

It will be interesting to see if they have a 4+ or 3+ save once the rules drop.

I like them both. A good update on stealth suits to make them more dynamic, though I agree the spots of specific white panels isn't a great paint job. That's easy to fix, though.

Wolf Scouts are a nice version of phobos marines. You either like the armor or you don't, and these won't convince your otherwise. Some of the heads are kind of obnoxious, but if there's one thing wolf players should have, it's plenty of head options in their bits boxes. The Pack Leader is a nice update on the classic wolf sculpt. Really like the Rune Priest, and it's cute that they all have their napping blankets strapped to their backpacks.

Both great kits. I quite like the gritty paint scheme on the Tau, nice change of pace.

Wasn't what I was expecting, but nice all the same.

We're never going to get Stealth Suits cast in clear plastic are we?

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
We're never going to get Stealth Suits cast in clear plastic are we?

So Wolf Scouts are Infiltrators with a Phobos Librarian Rune Priest now.
I guess the plasma gun totally explains why they are DLC and not in the codex...

 Lord Damocles wrote:
So Wolf Scouts are Infiltrators with a Phobos Librarian Rune Priest now.
I guess the plasma gun totally explains why they are DLC and not in the codex...

Their backpacks don’t have any of the normal bits that differentiate the regular phobos squads. Infiltrators/incursors/reivers.

Sarge has a power sword
One guy has a plasma gun, another a plasma pistol
Haywire mine
Marksman type rifle.
Skjald


7 guys pictured, with the sarge and the sniper looking like they share legs.

Will be interesting to see the datasheet

Hugely dissapointed that the wolf scouts are not wolf scouts, but phobos instead.

On the other hand these guys look great. The Phobos Scouts capture the elite veteran feel of the wolf scout lore.
I will allow it.

Marine poses all look pretty samey and with too many tactical rocks to me, but details are nice.
Tau look fine as usual and I like that GW for once didn't give their minis the most boring parade paintjob. At the same time not really a fan of the black&white scheme.
Overall some nice kits, though. Friend of mine plays Wolves and Tau so he'll probably be interested.

I’ve desperately wanted some Wolf Scouts in Phobos armor as a part of their recent release. I don’t *love* these models, but I do like them. There is enough there that, with the existing Phobos kits (and some FW heads from the Oathsworn), I think making some more personalized Wolf Scouts should be straightforward. Yes, a few too many tactical rocks, but some good stuff on there.

Spoken as someone who usually plays his customized Vanguard Space Wolf in Space Marine 2.

So I checked...this is the fourth time new Tau updated minis are in Kill Team starter boxes.

Chalnath (Pathfinders)
Into the Dark (Farstalker Kinband)
Hivestorm (Vespid)
Dead Silence (Stealth Team)

Somebody on the dev squad for Kill Team is a Tau main.

Interesting to see that Logan Grimnar's Great Company is the current 'studio standard' paintjob.

 RaptorusRex wrote:
Interesting to see that Logan Grimnar's Great Company is the current 'studio standard' paintjob.

Weirdly they’re a mix. The pack leader and hunter are Ragnar’s company but the rest are Grimnar’s

I'm waiting to see exactly how many of each model we are getting. 6 Stealth Suits and two drones makes sense, that's a legal unit in 40k. The pictured 7 marines (Character included) plus Fenresian wolf does NOT make a unit in GW's now standard 5-man, 10 man squad system.

 cuda1179 wrote:
I'm waiting to see exactly how many of each model we are getting. 6 Stealth Suits and two drones makes sense, that's a legal unit in 40k. The pictured 7 marines (Character included) plus Fenresian wolf does NOT make a unit in GW's now standard 5-man, 10 man squad system.

The upcoming Night Lords kit comes with a Character so its very possible and likely that the Rune Priest is separate. 6 man units are fairly common for Marines these days particularly for the chapter specific units. I heavily assumed the Deathwatch kit was going to be a 3-6 unit based on this.

I am betting 6+2 Tau and 5+1 Wolves.
The Leader and Frosteye (sigh) share legs.
Fangbearer and Hunter have the same rock.
Maybe they are a bit like the striking scorpions with a couple swappable tactical rocks.

Not feeling the leather gloves though.
Too simple and remind of old 3rd ed era Chaos Marines.
Also notice the shoulder pads are decals and not raised detail.
Oh wait! the Leader's pad looks raised. Strange.

 skrulnik wrote:
I am betting 6+2 Tau and 5+1 Wolves.
The Leader and Frosteye (sigh) share legs.
Fangbearer and Hunter have the same rock.
Maybe they are a bit like the striking scorpions with a couple swappable tactical rocks.

Not feeling the leather gloves though.
Too simple and remind of old 3rd ed era Chaos Marines.
Also notice the shoulder pads are decals and not raised detail.
Oh wait! the Leader's pad looks raised. Strange.

Good eye on the legs! I wasn't looking but those are definitely both the same. Feels like 1 or 2 are repeated in the Tau as well, though it might just be a case of them being similar.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Front of the box in the preview video shows 5 space wolves and their puppy vs 5 Tau, 2 drones and the homing beacon. So probably 14 models in the box total.

 skrulnik wrote:
I am betting 6+2 Tau and 5+1 Wolves.

I'd say Tau is 5+2. Infiltrator and Designator are basically the same model and the box cover also only shows five. Sure, right now they're 3 or 6 in 40k, but they did the same with Raveners.

The group shots appear to be 5+2+1 for the Tau and 5+1 for the Wolf Scouts

 DaveC wrote:
The group shots appear to be 5+2+1 for the Tau and 5+1 for the Wolf Scouts

But that could be 'Kill Team size', and there are 'spare' models in the box, as with the 10 man marine squads in the past, who can't all be on board at the same time.

Given the doubled bodies, I'm guessing there'll be 2x sprue of 3 scouts, and the priest and wolf come on their own shared sprue together x1.

 Malika2 wrote:
New and different Tau suits are always welcome, just shows the variety/development of their tech

Unfortunately it looks like they will be replacing the current stealth suit kit rather than serving alongside. Seems to be the pattern with the stealth suits, the original XV15 suits were pretty different to the current XV25s.

I love the old XV15 suits. I still have 18 of them, and xv25's.

So, what's that up to now? 6 different kinds of Stealth suits for the Tau canon?

The stealth tech goes all the way down to the blueprints. They keep loosing track of them, so need to develop a whole new pattern of suit.

If the stealth tech was a little worse, they might be able to locate the plans. But that’s Tau technology for you!

We have multitudes of Stealth Suits, but no Shas'o Kais? Unforgivable.

All those lovely weapon choices... Just ready for 40k 11th edition which will allow the 10th edition codex books (till the new ones) but will add in "all new option points for equipment and weapons".

 Gimgamgoo wrote:
All those lovely weapon choices... Just ready for 40k 11th edition which will allow the 10th edition codex books (till the new ones) but will add in "all new option points for equipment and weapons".

They don’t even need to add points back when they have a new kit.

You now can field extra plasma/power weapons/magic dudes in your scout squads if you buy the new kit. For free, no point change.

Adding new shiny options to drive sales is an old trick.

What options do wolf scouts have now? My memory is fuzzy, but IIRC they always had the option for a plasma gun, and at least some more access to pistols/power weapons. But I honestly don’t think I’ve ever seen a squad across the table.

 Nevelon wrote:

What options do wolf scouts have now? My memory is fuzzy, but IIRC they always had the option for a plasma gun, and at least some more access to pistols/power weapons. But I honestly don’t think I’ve ever seen a squad across the table.

Right now? They have whatever options Scouts have because there is no Wolf Scouts unique unit.

They used to have the option of a Sergeant power weapon and plasma pistol, another guy with a plasma pistol, and another guy with a special weapon. Pretty decent for picking off those cheap, min-sized backfield objective holders.

 cuda1179 wrote:
They used to have the option of a Sergeant power weapon and plasma pistol, another guy with a plasma pistol, and another guy with a special weapon. Pretty decent for picking off those cheap, min-sized backfield objective holders.

8th edition was the last time they were available, and weirdly wolf scout pack leaders had fewer options than normal scout sgts. He could either replace his bolter with a power sword or power axe, or replace his pistol with a plasma pistol. I think this got changed to (or from?) them being able to pick any melee weapon to replace their bolter or replace their pistol with a plasma.

As a squad they had access to camo cloaks, sniper rifles, shotguns, chainswords or combat knives to replace their boltguns (including the pack leader). One could take a heavy bolter, missile launcher, or any special weapon. Another could take either replace their boltgun with a power sword or power axe (again, this seems to have been changed to OR from taking any melee weapon) or replace their pistol with a plasma one.

And then like pretty much any other wolf infantry they could add an additional wolf guard pack leader alongside their normal scout pack leader who could take melee/combi/plasma pistol/storm shield/etc.

 cole1114 wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
They used to have the option of a Sergeant power weapon and plasma pistol, another guy with a plasma pistol, and another guy with a special weapon. Pretty decent for picking off those cheap, min-sized backfield objective holders.

8th edition was the last time they were available, and weirdly wolf scout pack leaders had fewer options than normal scout sgts. He could either replace his bolter with a power sword or power axe, or replace his pistol with a plasma pistol. I think this got changed to (or from?) them being able to pick any melee weapon to replace their bolter or replace their pistol with a plasma.

As a squad they had access to camo cloaks, sniper rifles, shotguns, chainswords or combat knives to replace their boltguns (including the pack leader). One could take a heavy bolter, missile launcher, or any special weapon. Another could take either replace their boltgun with a power sword or power axe (again, this seems to have been changed to OR from taking any melee weapon) or replace their pistol with a plasma one.

And then like pretty much any other wolf infantry they could add an additional wolf guard pack leader alongside their normal scout pack leader who could take melee/combi/plasma pistol/storm shield/etc.

Yeah, so packing two plasma pistols, a plasma gun, a combi plasma, and two power weapons in a tight little squad that could pop up anywhere was VERY handy. Even if you suicide dropped them they still felt worth it.

What is interesting to me is that gw have now officially made space Wolves the only chapter that doesn't use scout armour at all.

their initiates starting in power armour was a weird retcon caused by William king putting Ragnar straight into the blood claws in the space wolf novel. So they then had to explain that the scouts were actually veterans to justify their existence.

The plastic scouts in the 2nd Ed space wolf army box with a red and white pack marking just being a figment of the imagination...

Since the wolves don't seem to use marines until they're fully implanted, the only reason to use carapace would be the noise power armor makes. And now that phobos exists and is as quiet, there's truly no reason to use carapace.

How can it be a retcon when Bill King wrote tons of the lore articles for GW in the 90s?

Also, it’s absurd that a military (or warrior, if you prefer) would use new recruits as scouts, the most critical of units in creating the conditions to win.

 cole1114 wrote:
Since the wolves don't seem to use marines until they're fully implanted, the only reason to use carapace would be the noise power armor makes. And now that phobos exists and is as quiet, there's truly no reason to use carapace.

One would think its the chainsword or heavy bolter that would have given them away, but no, its the noisy power armour

 Fayric wrote:

 cole1114 wrote:
Since the wolves don't seem to use marines until they're fully implanted, the only reason to use carapace would be the noise power armor makes. And now that phobos exists and is as quiet, there's truly no reason to use carapace.

One would think its the chainsword or heavy bolter that would have given them away, but no, its the noisy power armour

Chainswords and heavy bolters don't make noise until you use them.

dienekes96 wrote:
How can it be a retcon when Bill King wrote tons of the lore articles for GW in the 90s?

Also, it’s absurd that a military (or warrior, if you prefer) would use new recruits as scouts, the most critical of units in creating the conditions to win.

So with the way hypo-indoctrination works, scouts would already have all the training they need. It's their physical bodies that are behind, making them unsuited for frontline combat. And because of how few marines there are at any given time, even new recruits have to be used and that's the role they're best suited for.

dienekes96 wrote:
How can it be a retcon when Bill King wrote tons of the lore articles for GW in the 90s?

Also, it’s absurd that a military (or warrior, if you prefer) would use new recruits as scouts, the most critical of units in creating the conditions to win.

Your latter statement is moot because it's the standard space marine method, whether it's absurd for space Wolves to do or not.

To the former, it's a retcon because the 2nd ed space wolf codex specifically says, like all marines, space Wolves start in the wolf scouts. And it's ESPECIALLY a retcon because bill King is in the credits for WRITING the short stories in the 2nd ed space wolf codex. So he should have been aware of this fact when he wrote space wolf 6 years later...

As always, the best 40K lore is the lore you take from them and then make in your own head. Especially if you have a 3D printer or a friend with one, because you can really make what you want.

With that being said, Bill King is the one man who gets to retcon Warhammer lore if he feels like it, doubly so for 1990s Bill King.

So, what's the rumor mill say about the possibility of Grey Knights ever coming up for Kill Team?

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
So, what's the rumor mill say about the possibility of Grey Knights ever coming up for Kill Team?

(Shakes magic 8 ball)
Hmm. "Always possible, ask again later."

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
So, what's the rumor mill say about the possibility of Grey Knights ever coming up for Kill Team?

There was a rumour about Grey Knights vs I think Khorne Daemons but since we got this Tau vs Space Wolves set instead thats either moved back or proven wrong

 frankelee wrote:


With that being said, Bill King is the one man who gets to retcon Warhammer lore if he feels like it, doubly so for 1990s Bill King.

Agreed.

Also it's had 26 years of being a retcon and 'official' canon versus the 6 years of it not. So difficult to call it a retcon at this stage.

 Matrindur wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
So, what's the rumor mill say about the possibility of Grey Knights ever coming up for Kill Team?

There was a rumour about Grey Knights vs I think Khorne Daemons but since we got this Tau vs Space Wolves set instead thats either moved back or proven wrong

That's what I was afraid of.

Although with the 5 man DW KT, they’ve shown they are willing to use the “more elite then elite” design space that leaves room for the GK.

 Nevelon wrote:
Although with the 5 man DW KT, they’ve shown they are willing to use the “more elite then elite” design space that leaves room for the GK.

A GK KT would give me hope of a redesign coming for GK, especially after the last codex, where Draigo and Stern dissappeared and nothing new but a weapon sprue was added to the army.

Just to be clear, this has nothing to do with me and Magnus did nothing wrong

So the puppy is Blackfang, and that’s his pack?


There are no wolves on Fenris…

News from Warhammer Community: Dead Silence is up for preorder next Saturday, along with the Deathwatch and Canoptek Circle teams & card decks.
Also the Tomb World terrain.

Oof. Next Saturday is going to be expensive for me.

Dead Silence is €87.50, £67.50, USD$112
Tomb World is €130, £98, USD$165
(Euro price confirmed others based on GWs equivalent currency rates)

GW reveled part of wolf scout abilities. Storm looks pretty good

The option to have most if not all equipped with plasma pistols also seems pretty serious.

This is definitely a match up that appeals to both my brother and myself, but it will probably sellout on preorders as soon as it goes live.

SamusDrake wrote:
This is definitely a match up that appeals to both my brother and myself, but it will probably sellout on preorders as soon as it goes live.

Maybe it is local, but I find this to just not be true. Of course, those who for some unfathomable reasons try to order directly from GW are not doing themselves any favours - either overpaying badly or missing the window to buy - but regular stores, both b&m and online seem to have stocks of these sets long after the launch date and discounted to boot. Not a single player from my group had any problem securing any KT sets locally and, judging from reddit posts, it seems to be like that in other parts of the world too. Don't try to buy from the GW store and you should be fine.

Cyel wrote:


Maybe it is local, but I find this to just not be true. Of course, those who for some unfathomable reasons try to order directly from GW are not doing themselves any favours - either overpaying badly or missing the window to buy - but regular stores, both b&m and online seem to have stocks of these sets long after the launch date and discounted to boot. Not a single player from my group had any problem securing any KT sets locally and, judging from reddit posts, it seems to be like that in other parts of the world too. Don't try to buy from the GW store and you should be fine.

Yeah, I keep hearing this and it never works out on the Kill Team / 40K side of things. Partly the reason I was interested in AOS for a long while...

And I can honestly say that without indie discount I wouldn't bother with GW at all and take up knitting instead. Aside from the odd copy of White Dwarf, I only venture into local indies or Wayland games. 15% or 20% makes it only just worthwhile...

Hmm, and have you tried pre-ordering at your local stores to have a copy set aside for you? That's what seems to work.

Agreed, outside GW store all kits are available. even if there's no discount you always can buy any.


XV-26 reveled, imho not so much impressive as Wolf scouts but still pretty good.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/tbox77lp/kill-team-dead-silence-being-visible-is-old-hat-redefine-stealth-with-the-tau-empires-new-xv26-battlesuits/

Pre-ordering from local stores works fine until allocations get cut and not all such orders can be filled. There is never any 100% guarantee.

Cyel wrote:
Hmm, and have you tried pre-ordering at your local stores to have a copy set aside for you? That's what seems to work.

Well of course I have! That's why I'm cheesed off!

Saying that, one of my indies - a new one - surprised me with a most awesome thing...Kill Team: Commanders! Brand spanking new as well!

stealth suits APL3?! It used to be fairly restrictive what teams got that, but it seems they're giving it to teams I would never expect - it's not like Tau have fast reaction times or enhanced physiology...

Could be due to the various jump jets and what not.

Isn't it's bleeding-edge tech? why shouldn't it have apl3?

How does high tech make your nerves work faster? Or your muscles contract quicker?

A tau is the last species I'd expect to have apl3.

No amount of super suit makes your body make quicker than it can.

Body may be, suite? why not? suite detected enemy, and turns to face it and prepare guns. So nothing stop little gundam to react faster then it's pilot. Pilot will get a bit of overload, but i doubt it gonna be too hard

 Hellebore wrote:
How does high tech make your nerves work faster? Or your muscles contract quicker?

No amount of super suit makes your body make quicker than it can.

Depends on what kinds of combat drugs the suit systems pump into your bloodstream.
Vastly increased awareness of the surroundings thanks to all the sensors also should make your movements and actions on the battlefield more efficient and decisive which can translate into higher APL.

I could see some AI assist in the power armor helping a little. But there is a pretty significant difference in APL 2 and 3.

I suspect it’s due to box size and 40k compatibility. If they wanted them to be a 2 APL KT, they probably would have needed to have more operatives on the team. And not just drones. So they boosted their stats to make the mechanics fit the squad size.

 Nevelon wrote:
I could see some AI assist in the power armor helping a little. But there is a pretty significant difference in APL 2 and 3.

I suspect it’s due to box size and 40k compatibility. If they wanted them to be a 2 APL KT, they probably would have needed to have more operatives on the team. And not just drones. So they boosted their stats to make the mechanics fit the squad size.

+1

I agree, it's game Balance.

If you want fluff: Drone Intelligence is that of a squirrel. Tau squirrels are hyperactive and have ADHD. Thus APL 3.

 Hellebore wrote:
How does high tech make your nerves work faster? Or your muscles contract quicker?

A tau is the last species I'd expect to have apl3.

No amount of super suit makes your body make quicker than it can.

But it can help you do multiple complex actions. If you’re legging it, aim assist would allow for more accurate hip fire. If you’re lining up your shot, sensors and powered articulation can take care of your movement, allowing your eyes to focus on that shot.

Not without training of course, I’m not a fan of “I put on the suit and now I’m a god” type stuff. But it’s still a possible background based explanation?

I always feel that astartes-chauvinism taste any time people start doubt other faction can do something cool. Why most technologically advanced faction can't make battle suit thus allow pilot fight at least at Astartes level? Except they aren't SM?

 kabaakaba wrote:
I always feel that astartes-chauvinism taste any time people start doubt other faction can do something cool. Why most technologically advanced faction can't make battle suit thus allow pilot fight at least at Astartes level? Except they aren't SM?

It's the Iron Man Effect.

Tony Stark builds Iron Man. Iron Man is cool and super amazing.

Technology improves, and Tony Stark builds War Machine, which is Iron Man + More Dakka.

Sadly due to everyone loving Iron Man (and being the name of the comic), War Machine can never beat Iron Man.

Same with Space Marines and whoever comes later.

 kabaakaba wrote:
I always feel that astartes-chauvinism taste any time people start doubt other faction can do something cool. Why most technologically advanced faction can't make battle suit thus allow pilot fight at least at Astartes level? Except they aren't SM?

I’m not up on modern Tau fluff, but I didn’t think stealth suits were all that and a bag of chips.

Crisis suits? I’d have no issue having 3 action points. They have all the whistles and bells.

But I’d put stealth suits as better then marine scouts, less then full marines. More tech tricks and gizmos, less raw power. Maybe 7 man team with a few drones, but APL 2. Depends how strong their tricks were.

My opinion, obviously.

Except these are new and improved versions over the XV-25's. No reason they couldn't have taken the combat experience and improved them to be more on par with Marines. Besides, XV-25's already have Marine Stats.

Yeah, within the limits of a D6 system, stealth suits basically are power armour, give or take a bit of extra bulkiness and no neck. We already know the T’au have zero issues with implanting brain chips to enhance their soldiers as well, so having the suit react to direct brain control is absolutely on brand.

 Nevelon wrote:

But I’d put stealth suits as better then marine scouts, less then full marines. More tech tricks and gizmos, less raw power. Maybe 7 man team with a few drones, but APL 2. Depends how strong their tricks were.

Doesn't APL 3 count as a 'tech trick'? Not stronger or tougher, but able to multitask better.

It's more like combination of physical abilities and sensonrs/reaction/instincts. Like invulnerable save in 40k represent SOMETHING what's protecting model

 Nevelon wrote:
I could see some AI assist in the power armor helping a little. But there is a pretty significant difference in APL 2 and 3.

I suspect it’s due to box size and 40k compatibility. If they wanted them to be a 2 APL KT, they probably would have needed to have more operatives on the team. And not just drones. So they boosted their stats to make the mechanics fit the squad size.

Certainly seems this is the option. I'm not sure whether they'd even bother trying to justify it beyond being an abstract mechanic.


No amount of hand waving tech is going to explain how they can do 50% more actions in the same 10 second period as anyone else with faster reaction time and superior speed.

If it was restricted to certain types of actions, the types of things that a suit would actually allow you to do more of, then that would be one thing. I'd kind of like that, seeing the tech advance appear in the rules as taking their physical limitations and augmenting with certain suit options. But just flat APL3 on low initiative tau seems wrong. They shouldn't be as fast as a harlequin.