The price change is unfortunate. The models are on the higher end of the price range, given the IP's they are carrying. I understand the hesitation to purchase.
Personally, I am willing to pay. The scupts are quality. The IP's are worth it. The game is high quality. And a player doesn't need a large army to get into the game.
Well, it would be nice if Knight Models was forthright about the price increase.
Blaming it on material costs is frankly absurd, unless there was some massive price hike in plastic blisters and printed cards...
Tin is a commodity. Anybody can go online and look at the price of Tin today. Pewter is at least 90% Tin. So the price of Tin has a very direct impact on Tin-based alloys.
Anyhoo, the prices aren't absurd as they are. The sets are pretty reasonably priced compared to other skirmish wargames on the market, and $15 for a single is not atypical in the market.
But that pricing has naught to do with material costs. It has to do with volume and development costs. Skirmish games with lots of character models are more expensive to make because you can't cut as many corners on sculpting. Sales volumes for models are lower because you don't need 10 Frank Miller Batman models. You only need one. And customers are happy to pay $100 to play a table top wargame.
I expect that Knight Models does not want to say that they are increasing prices because sales volume has been less than projected.
KM minis are very hit or miss. Even the good ones have such shallow detail that you end up having to freehand it on anyways. I guess it's all personal opinion, but I just don't see how anyone can objective make a blanket statement that all KM models are gorgeous pieces of art.
Wraithwing wrote: KM's miniatures are stunning, and worth every penny.
Yes and no. They are definitely good looking miniatures, however the sculpting/casting does need a bit of improvement. Not a lot but it does need a bit. Currently Infinity has better looking miniatures in terms of detail and quality of the miniatures so I know KM can improve. Some of the details are washed out because the details aren't as exaggerated or deep enough, requiring a good painter to really pull the details out. They are getting a bit better, newer stuff has been better than original stuff.
Nightwing, Red Hood, Talia are examples that they are good. However the detail isn't as defined as Infinity. A good painter can make them good though, but amateur painters will have more trouble making those details pop unlike when painting Infinity miniatures.
Honestly what hurts Knight Models is the retail market. In the US in my area, the only place to really order is direct from them or a couple online places that might have them in. That makes it hard to promote the game. I want to promote it at a local level, but I won't promote games where retailers can't readily get product.
Have to agree with Dark Severence. The sculpts are nice but they do need to improve the quality and casting. Shallow details, large blobs of flash, and poor fits I find are common in the KM range. I expected a bit better especially for the price we pay.
Yeah, i can live with flash and not great fits, but give me some raised detail for chrissakes. Way too many logos and design need to be freehanded, all this gak I'm freehanding is what makes these donkey-caves $20 Penguin goons different than normal goons!
To take some of the sting off, Miniature Market occasionally misprices Batman sets, got Bane starter for 25, and Two-face starter for an absurd $16! Right now they have a 4 pack of Blackgate Prisoners II for 16 bucks, MSRP 38, normal price $30.
What I don't understand, is that unless you're playing in tournaments, why not just use Heroclix or any of the other gazillion other options. I think the models are nice enough, I am just too broke to buy in... or.. I guess broke enough that I'd rather pay $20 for a whole collection of Clix and save the other money that would've been spent on terrain and stuff? I'm not saying everyone should do this. The models are fantastic and if/when I can afford them, I'll switch over.. I'm more saying, people are acting like there's no other options..
Heroclix are about the only real option, and even then, there are plenty of people for whom the minis are important enough that they just aren't good enough. I will use Heroclix for characters without models if I have to, preferably with a repaint, but comparing the two as anything other than game pieces is not favourable.
Heroclix also seem to be somewhat harder to get in the UK than the US without buying blind.
The other issue is that for the henchmen HC don't really cover it as far as I know, and there's a very limited range of models in 35mm rather than 28mm scale.
Paradigm wrote: Heroclix are about the only real option, and even then, there are plenty of people for whom the minis are important enough that they just aren't good enough. I will use Heroclix for characters without models if I have to, preferably with a repaint, but comparing the two as anything other than game pieces is not favourable.
Heroclix also seem to be somewhat harder to get in the UK than the US without buying blind.
The other issue is that for the henchmen HC don't really cover it as far as I know, and there's a very limited range of models in 35mm rather than 28mm scale.
The HC are definitely more 28-32mm (I've seen it described as WTF scale because it is not consistent). There's a fantastic video on stripping HC figures by Jay Aden. If you follow it to the letter the paint comes off in a minute or two. Henchmen there's options. Generic goons there are a few of in HC. Otherwise, you can actually just grab some WGF survivors, Mad Robot, Puppetswar, Maxmini, Werewoolf, and others. It takes some imagination and research but I've got a huge assortment built up. The bright side of that, is that it also opens you up to other things. Old Crow for example, has an APC that looks a LOT like the APC from the chase missions in the AK video game. Reaper has a cool model that with some wires/tubes from Dragonforge looks like Titan-Bane (there's even a head at Mad Robot that completes the look). I mostly look to HC for the specific characters and civillians, though I have used it for thugs and goons. I've got a lot going on but I'll try to get a P&M blog going to show some of the options I'm talking about.
EDIT: As to the singles being harder to get in the UK. I'm sorry. That puts a lot of the plan on hold. Check out Miniature Market. It's a US company but you can get free postage with a big order :/
MLaw wrote: Otherwise, you can actually just grab some WGF survivors, Mad Robot, Puppetswar, Maxmini, Werewoolf, and others. It takes some imagination and research but I've got a huge assortment built up.
It works to an extent. I use a handful of WGF survivors as cops just until I buy the real ones, and there is a pretty noticeable difference in size. It's fine across the table, but when they end up in base contact with models that are twice their mass it looks a bit off.
I agree it's an option, and depending on what gets released for the Scarecrow Arkham militia there's a few minis from Puppetswar I'm eyeing up, but using 28mm minis alongside 35mm ones is outside some people's aesthetic tolerance.
Not that KM's scale consistency is any better (looking at you, Ra's Al Neeson and DKR Bane)
MLaw wrote: Otherwise, you can actually just grab some WGF survivors, Mad Robot, Puppetswar, Maxmini, Werewoolf, and others. It takes some imagination and research but I've got a huge assortment built up.
It works to an extent. I use a handful of WGF survivors as cops just until I buy the real ones, and there is a pretty noticeable difference in size. It's fine across the table, but when they end up in base contact with models that are twice their mass it looks a bit off.
I agree it's an option, and depending on what gets released for the Scarecrow Arkham militia there's a few minis from Puppetswar I'm eyeing up, but using 28mm minis alongside 35mm ones is outside some people's aesthetic tolerance.
Not that KM's scale consistency is any better (looking at you, Ra's Al Neeson and DKR Bane)
lol, yeah. I have heard/read about the scale issues.
For us it's not an issue because it's me and my kids. I live in the middle of nowhere now so eh.. it's just for laughs on game night.
MLaw wrote: What I don't understand, is that unless you're playing in tournaments, why not just use Heroclix or any of the other gazillion other options. I think the models are nice enough, I am just too broke to buy in... or.. I guess broke enough that I'd rather pay $20 for a whole collection of Clix and save the other money that would've been spent on terrain and stuff? I'm not saying everyone should do this. The models are fantastic and if/when I can afford them, I'll switch over.. I'm more saying, people are acting like there's no other options..
Shhhh, don't let the folks on the official forums or facebook group hear you say that, they'll brand you a thief for stealing money out of KMs pockets. Seriously though, even the word proxy is regarded with contempt over there. Apparently if you can't afford to pay, you don't deserve to play. I've got one friend who already quit playing and sold what models he'd collected so far because of the reaction he received when he asked why the PDF of the rules KM said they'd provide wasn't available yet.
MLaw wrote: What I don't understand, is that unless you're playing in tournaments, why not just use Heroclix or any of the other gazillion other options. I think the models are nice enough, I am just too broke to buy in... or.. I guess broke enough that I'd rather pay $20 for a whole collection of Clix and save the other money that would've been spent on terrain and stuff? I'm not saying everyone should do this. The models are fantastic and if/when I can afford them, I'll switch over.. I'm more saying, people are acting like there's no other options..
Shhhh, don't let the folks on the official forums or facebook group hear you say that, they'll brand you a thief for stealing money out of KMs pockets. Seriously though, even the word proxy is regarded with contempt over there. Apparently if you can't afford to pay, you don't deserve to play. I've got one friend who already quit playing and sold what models he'd collected so far because of the reaction he received when he asked why the PDF of the rules KM said they'd provide wasn't available yet.
Yeah, a lot of companies/games have forums that are full of over-zealous toxic fanatics. It's funny because I'm sure in their own way they think they're supporting the game. I'm sure a lot of people who want to try it out would think about HC or standees or tokens for the characters until they decide if they like it or until they can afford it. I won't elaborate because this is roaming into off-topic. That AK batmobile is stunning as is the Arkham Asylum. I'm curious as to why they're dragging their feet on announcing a pricepoint.
The proxy discussion is a bit off topic here. That said, i think you have to understand that the OFFICIAL KM forum and the OFFICIAL KM Facebook page don't want you using/talking about using proxies intend of their own product. That doesn't mean you can't do that in your own home and still talk about using certain models in certain ways at those locations.
In terms of the price increase, there are things to look at. First, the company is filled with Spanish speakers; there's a fair chance the translation was not exactly directly what they intended. Perhaps they just meant their production costs (which include materials, but also salaries, shipping costs, etc). Or, it could be material costs other than the metals they use, like the ink, paper, or even plastics they use on the packaging.
Either way, I'm hoping this does;t end the enthusiasm that has been shown lately for the game.
Batmobile (can be built in driving or combat mode:
A new Joker, based on The Killing Joke:
Gatling Gun Brute for Joker/Harley:
Spice and Two-face Thugs (not that I know who Spice is)
Milita expansion with RPG and Medic:
And Arkham Asylum
Looks like the new sets are more expensive than the equivalent (in terms of general number/size of models) than previous releases, so probably a good indication of what's coming in the price rise department.
Also of note, the Knight Models Legends section lists Spiderman, The Goblin Cult, SHIELD and HYDRA as 'coming soon'....
Pricey to be sure, and certainly not for everyone. I would personally dread building either.
But, there are some interesting side notes. There are some gang bundle deals, including the new Scarecrow and militia. The large pic of Killing Joke Joker has a poster of Zatanna. Looks like another anti-tank weapon for the Scarecrow militia in that RPG. And the Marvel game is rumored to have rules out in November.
OH! And the Joker covered rulebook is available for a brief time as well.
Sugar and Spice were the names of Tommy Lee Jones' sidekicks in Batman Forever.
Sugar I think was Drew Barrymore's first film role.... Spice, however, didn't look like that...
So I'm guessing she's based off a comic incarnation of them. Not a fan of the drastically divergent style of the henchmen though. In saying that, I'm not in love with the Arkham Two-Face henchmen. - Not entirely sure what to make of that set overall, to be honest... I might be better off getting a blackgate prisoners set to round out my Two-Face gang and leaving it at that.
Killing Joke Joker is great, I'd be tempted to buy that to paint.
I thought ET was Drew Barrymore's first film role..
Those prices.. I'll settle for the Hot Wheel Elite/Eaglemoss and wait for Multiverse or Angry Mojo to do an Asylum kit (actually.. guess I'll check and see if they have).
I do like that new Joker, if I hadn't just bought a Joker set he'd be a priority for sure (as it is, I'll pick him up 'at some point'). Two-face guys I'm not fussed with, when I get to him I'll stick to the existing Arkham 2-F goons and Gangsters, maybe Blackgates. Militia guys are nice, but the prospect of a 'pure' militia list is still not reachable, since although the Rep total for the band is now up to 335, the Funding then goes over $1500. Still, the Arkham Inmates go well enough with Scarecrow so I'm not too put off, he's still next on my list. Gatling gun guy I may go for at some point, but this month my wallet is largely safe. The coming-soonness of the Marvel stuff may put a dent in that, though...
Looks like there's no printout for the crews available, but below the leader icon you can at least 'save' crews, for which it then gives you a unique URL.
Joker looks nice, more like 'completely normal appearance' Joker than Killing Joke tho, he'd be in beach duds with a camera of course!
2face set is terrible, I assume goons based on boring AK guys as they are awful. And their original take on Spice is putting me right to sleep. What is their track record on original takes on characters? Maybe they should stick with their srengths, overpriced poorly fitted minis, and get design inspiration from the company thats been drawing batman comics for the past 75 years.
What are the major price increases supposed to be? I just checked KM's webpage and saw the new joker is just over 16 euros, compared to the previous joker at just over 14 euros. A two euro difference isn't that big of a deal imho as the quality of the sculpts has progressed a long way as well. Also remember that you only need a handful of models to play this game.
Maybe price isn't bothering me as much as I play 40k where a single plastic terminator librarian is damn near $30 (and far less detailed).
I think the biggest barrier for this game is distribution. I have ordered from KM in the past and waited three months for my minis. The only major US retailers are CMON or miniature market (mm if you want a discount).
@445_PWR: you can get Knight Models minis at a discount from The War Store, too...
they carry Batman, Marvel, DC, and Watchmen 28mm minis...
my orders show up within 2-3 days, which is nice...
restock from KM is hit and miss...
everytime i place an order, and think about adding Dark Knight Bane in, he's sold out:(...
RIGHT?
Looking at the card, it's a safe bet the mainstays are in.. Iron Man, Wolverine, Spider Man.. I'm just curious which villains will make the early cut.
Another positive.. The forces of Law will largely be interchangeable I'd bet.
Seeing as he's a Sidekick, and they have Spiderman listed as a faction on their Marvel Legends tab, I'd say it's a safe bet Parker will be a Leader for the crew. Probably with Elektra and Punisher as Sidekicks/Free Agents, possibly Wolverine.
I'd be surprised to see Stark and Cap in purely since KM have been pretty solidly against putting characters on that power level into Batman (Lobo being a notable exception), but at the same time, the fact Murdock is a Sidekick at 110 Rep (higher than any other BMG Sidekick apart from Arrow and Deathstroke, off the top of my head), the Marvel side of things may well lead to some escalation in Rep counts.
Other factions listed on the site are SHIELD, Hydra and The Goblin Cult, so I'd guess we see the Spidey villains in the range (Goblin, Venom, have they done Doc Ock?) make the early cut. I'd love to see Doom in there, preferably with Doombot Henchmen as well!
So very glad to see they're sticking with the BMG system for the Marvel stuff, though, it works so well... the fact it also means I can finally settle the Batman vs Spider-man debate in a mathematical (sort of) manner helps as well!
Well with the marvel stuff they can backfill a little, adding cards to the existing range.. and I'm sure they've got sculpts they've been sitting on for this.. so they can probably trickle it out for a few months before any noticeable hold ups.
I think "maybe" the BMG is going to stay low key and the Marvel things are going to focus more on those high-powered encounters. Maybe..
MLaw wrote: Well with the marvel stuff they can backfill a little, adding cards to the existing range.. and I'm sure they've got sculpts they've been sitting on for this.. so they can probably trickle it out for a few months before any noticeable hold ups.
That's what I'm hoping. Quickly release cards for the suitable Marvel minis already in the range:
Spidey
Daredevil
Elektra
Punisher
Wolverine
Widow
Cyclops
Colossus
Cap
Deadpool
Maybe Stark
Goblin
Venom
Doc Ock
Maybe Doom
And then repack Cops and Prisoners with Marvel-suitable names until they can get some crew sets out.
See, I think the leaders are all going to be on the powerful side. It creates a divide between the Marvel and DC sides. You "could" use Batman or Joker or Bane in the Marvel version.. but Iron Man, Hulk, Magneto, Dr Doom, etc are so much more powerful that it just wouldn't make sense.. That's what I'm hoping for anyway.. but if they do keep it to the street level heroes like Blade, Punisher, Moon Knight, Luke Cage, etc.. it'll still be fun.
happygolucky wrote: From what I guess I think they will have two Marvel types of games.
This one which will be like BMG, just street level with Marvel.
And then the supes games...
I'm awaiting to see MECH LUTHOR and MECH EDDIE for BMG..
Agreed, and I think that's the way to handle it for both Marvel and DC. I'm all for more powerful models in BMG/its Marvel equivalent, but the system does have its limits, and I can't see the likes of Thor, Thanos, Wonder Woman or Superman ever fitting into that. I also think the rules would need changing so significantly it'd be a different game by that point anyway. When we get a supers game, I want rules for punch people through buildings, chucking cars around and permanent flight, stuff that just doesn't slot nicely into the BMG system as it stands.
Perhaps I'm being dense here, but who are you referring to as Mech Eddie?
I'm interested to see where they take this. Whether they're going for the style and proportions of the animated stuff, or just take the designs and apply them to 'realistic' models?
durecellrabbit wrote: I wonder where they'll go with this. Will we just get the occasional BTAS model or will they try and make a complete collection.
We might finally get Manbat, he was in the first episode.
If I were to guess, I'd say they'd be best to focus on the ones whose designs are notably different to the Arkham/DKR ones. I expect we'll get a Batman (obviously), Dick Grayson Robin (it was Grayson in TAS, wasn't it?), Joker and Harley (although the 'Classic' Harley is most of the way there already), Two-face like the one above, Scarecrow with the hat maybe? And hopefully some different henchmen.
I just hope they adapt the aesthetic enough to make it mesh with the existing stuff, rather than being a whole other range that looks odd next to the Arkham/DKR stuff.
Mmmm this makes me happy and hopefully one step closer to Batman Beyond. I do hope for some of the more unique stuff from the series with my personal faves being Phantasm, Harvey Bullock, and oh if there was a Grey Ghost.... many a game will be had.
Paradigm wrote: I'm interested to see where they take this. Whether they're going for the style and proportions of the animated stuff, or just take the designs and apply them to 'realistic' models?
I'm not expecting wonders, especially with batman himself. He was drawn without great detail and ridiculously large, I don't see how to make a dyanic miniature out of TAS batman without making it look like a child's toy
Paradigm wrote: I'm interested to see where they take this. Whether they're going for the style and proportions of the animated stuff, or just take the designs and apply them to 'realistic' models?
I'm not expecting wonders, especially with batman himself. He was drawn without great detail and ridiculously large, I don't see how to make a dyanic miniature out of TAS batman without making it look like a child's toy
Phew... a cheap month and time to catch up on the last few releases if they're all like that this time! A nice mini if you're into the style, I guess, and they couldn't have done much else with it, but it's not something I'd want to put on the table with the rest of my stuff.
Shame, really, I was hoping we'd get a more comic-booky Batman that wasn't the Miller one.
I personally will buy anything they put out from the animated series, whether I even liked the character or not. It's some of my favorite animation of all time, and I cannot wait to get to paint these.
Ok, Black Manta is an interesting choice... Must be gearing up for the supers game... Katana I might need to see from some other angles, looks a bit off at the moment but that might just be the pic.
I think Katana is the most interesting this month. The BTAS releases are nice but I'll wait until there is enough of them I can do gangs all in that style. Otherwise it's breathing room to catch up with all those earlier Joker releases.
I really like the Riddler mech, but if you look at the bottom of that picture to its base... it looks like it will be really annoying to base and play with that thing. I could be wrong, but it just looks like a piece that they are cramming on a 50mm base and should probably be on something more like an 80mm.
H.B.M.C. wrote: And it's the original animated characters, not the redone versions that came about around the 3rd or 4th season (I think!). That's nice.
Actually I think it's mixed. Catwoman is the one from the first three seasons, but Batman is from the last season. The key differences are that the bat symbol in the first three seasons is set against a yellow oval and the cape is has a blue interior.
Spoiler:
Out of all the characters in the series Batman changed the least during the last season so you could probably paint him either way, but I really hope the rest of the characters are from the first three seasons. The aesthetics were far superior.
Pugnacious_Cee wrote: I really like the Riddler mech, but if you look at the bottom of that picture to its base... it looks like it will be really annoying to base and play with that thing. I could be wrong, but it just looks like a piece that they are cramming on a 50mm base and should probably be on something more like an 80mm.
This has been discussed before, with many models. Swamp Thing, Titan Joker, Titan Bane, The Butcher--they're all very large for a their bases. But, Knight models keeps all Large models on the same base for "gaming purposes."
Not a fan of it personally, but I get the context.
I was watching the Animated Series recently.
I really, really disliked the 'Adventures of Batman & Robin' designs - I thought they had become WAY too exaggerated.
Which is kinda why I think The Catwoman model looks like she could belong in a 'typical' force.
H.B.M.C. wrote: And it's the original animated characters, not the redone versions that came about around the 3rd or 4th season (I think!). That's nice.
Actually I think it's mixed. Catwoman is the one from the first three seasons, but Batman is from the last season. The key differences are that the bat symbol in the first three seasons is set against a yellow oval and the cape is has a blue interior.
Spoiler:
Out of all the characters in the series Batman changed the least during the last season so you could probably paint him either way, but I really hope the rest of the characters are from the first three seasons. The aesthetics were far superior.
Which is to bad, I prefer the original BTAS Batman, but that was also based on the comic costume I grew up with so....
By the way, the cards for all of these are on the KM site. Not got time to link them right now, but suffice to say, Black Manta is looking pretty brutal. I thought they'd be saving him for the supers game, but he's definitely in the upper levels of power in BMG.
Unix wrote: Actually I think it's mixed. Catwoman is the one from the first three seasons, but Batman is from the last season. The key differences are that the bat symbol in the first three seasons is set against a yellow oval and the cape is has a blue interior.
I was talking about Catwoman, but yeah you're right. That isn't quite the original Batman.
That said, there are multiple designs of Batman that would work with this. The Catwoman from later in the show was very simplistic compared to this one, and probably would have been harder to do. I wonder which Penguin they will do, the first one that was very Batman Returns inspired, or the latter one where he was less monstrous and more gentlemanly.
H.B.M.C. wrote: And it's the original animated characters, not the redone versions that came about around the 3rd or 4th season (I think!). That's nice.
Actually I think it's mixed. Catwoman is the one from the first three seasons, but Batman is from the last season. The key differences are that the bat symbol in the first three seasons is set against a yellow oval and the cape is has a blue interior.
Spoiler:
Out of all the characters in the series Batman changed the least during the last season so you could probably paint him either way, but I really hope the rest of the characters are from the first three seasons. The aesthetics were far superior.
Kind of what I said before. They picked the Batman with the least definition. The first suit is the iconic TAS image. They should have used that one. I'm much less excited now that I've seen this model...
Also on the Spidey page are the classic Spidey (no idea why the led with Superior, to be honest), Daredevil and Punisher.
In all honesty, I'm struggling to see the reasoning behind these releases. I've not read a huge amount of Spidey stuff, but I don't recall the Green Goblin ever having actual 'goblin minions' or Spiderman having spider-henchmen. More generic goons and cops respectively would have been a far better choice, I feel...
Some unusual rules choices in there as well. I like the Strength 2+ on the superhuman characters, and the higher cost caps, but things like giving Spidey a 1/6 auto-fail on any kind of web attack seems a little overdone. His webshooters don't break that often!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also possibly the worst-translated rule I have ever seen on Superior Spidey:
Maximum Efficiency: If this hero don't obtain by himself almost 3VPs by the end of the game, you lose one VP.
Usually I'm willing to give KM the benefit of the doubt on the translation front, but that's just a mess.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Holy crap... Venom has 1+ Strength... That makes very little sense to me in a system where Swamp Thing only damages on a 2+... Either these rules are being deliberately made on a totally different level to the BMG ones, or this whole thing just hasn't been thought through...
Can't say those appeal to me much but then KM release schedule feels random to me most of the time.
Paradigm wrote: Holy crap... Venom has 1+ Strength... That makes very little sense to me in a system where Swamp Thing only damages on a 2+... Either these rules are being deliberately made on a totally different level to the BMG ones, or this whole thing just hasn't been thought through...
How many Marvel heroes and villain are the around same strength as the Venom or Spiderman? If that's going to lead to a large amount of characters having 2+ or better strength it might be worth them rescaling it.
durecellrabbit wrote: Can't say those appeal to me much but then KM release schedule feels random to me most of the time.
Paradigm wrote: Holy crap... Venom has 1+ Strength... That makes very little sense to me in a system where Swamp Thing only damages on a 2+... Either these rules are being deliberately made on a totally different level to the BMG ones, or this whole thing just hasn't been thought through...
How many Marvel heroes and villain are the around same strength as the Venom or Spiderman? If that's going to lead to a large amount of characters having 2+ or better strength it might be worth them rescaling it.
It basically precludes them from doing anyone stronger than Spidey, Wolverine, maybe Cap and Iron Man... What really makes no sense to me is Venom's 1+ Strength, that's just mental and out of place; he's stronger than Spiderman, but not that much stronger! With Spidey having Attack 3 and Strength 2+, and Venom being Attack 5 and Strength 1+, the difference between then is just insane. Venom can basically wipe out almost anyone in either game in short order, and is still cheaper than Green Goblin and only a tad more expensive than the likes of Titan Bane, AK Batman and Swamp Thing, and he really needn't be that good.
I'm hearing the band rep limit is intended to be in the 500 range for this line.
The Cult and the Spidey henchmen definitely make it feel like a forced offshoot of the Batman game. The will be bands where this makes sense, like Hydra and Shield, but if I have to take minions all the time, that's not going to look good with avengers, Xmen and Fantastic Four; very odd since each of those groups already have models.
The Goblin Minions are from a somewhat recent storyline in which the Goblin had an army of Goblin-esque villains and...yes...minions.
It was at the same time that Dr. Octopus had taken over Peter Parker's body and was calling himself the Superior Spider-Man.
And he had a high tech lab at his disposal, built robots to help him patrol more efficiently and...yes...had minions too, to help him round up the crooks.
Alpharius is absolutely right. I hated that story arc.
It's worth noting that this is not being put out as Marvel Miniatures Game etc. They presented this on FB as the Spider-Man Miniatures Game. So starting from his more close knight group of street heroes, there's a lot more similarities to the BMG.
Even still though, Spidey deals with a LOT of powered bad guys and heroes to boot.
I would imagine we'll see the Maggia, The Hand, Wild Pack, and maybe the Sinister Six.
I would also imagine we'll see Kraven, Stilt Man, Madame Web, and ooh.. Maybe Jackal.. that could be interesting. There could also be Smythe and the Spider Slayers but I don't know if that would be a standalone gang or what.
drazz wrote: Is there really enough traction for a full Spider-Man game? Wild Pack isn't exactly a household name.
Silver Sable is a pretty prominent character in the comics. I'd say it's no different than the Wonderland Gang from BMG. Most non-comics folk would probably not be able to tell you very much about Mad Hatter. Non video gamers have no clue what those Riddler robots are all about. A lot of folks that are "fans" of Spider-Man don't know who Jackal is or why he's important or who the Maggia are. They know the movies, maybe the cartoons.. that's pretty much it.
My point is.. your logic is kinda backwards IMO. Why diminish Spider-Man's lore to cater to people who don't know anything about him? That doesn't make sense to me. As a comic fan I watched this happen to the X-men already and then the Avengers. It sucks and Spider-Man has already been through enough without having his comic legacy dumbed down.
You'd have to go through a lot of legitimately cooler/more well known characters before you'd have to worry about using Silver Sable!
There's plenty of stuff to mine from the Spider-Man setting that can support this game!
I don't know that it's always about cool, but she was instrumental in taking down the Sinister Six in the Ends of the Earth storyline and Spidey blames himself for what happened to her.
I agree though.. Black Cat, Spider-Gwen, Beetle, Cardiac, Shocker, Electro, Rhino, Sandman, Prowler, Puma, Vulture, 2099 Spidey, Spider-Ham (and hopefully Throg), Moon Knight, Daredevil, Carnage, the 2 female goblins that were part of that Goblin war story, the original demonic Hobgoblin, Tombstone, Hammerhead, Kingpin, Chameleon, Mysterio, Scorpion, etc etc.
The MAIN problem with most of those characters though, is that they don't belong to an organization that could be made into a gang. Sable belongs to Wild Pack, and that translates well into the game. That's one of the reasons I think we'll see them.
OH SNAP.. what if we're going to see Taskmasters Academy? I know that's more of a Deadpool or maybe Avengers type of thing but that could be really cool.
MLaw wrote: Alpharius is absolutely right. I hated that story arc.
It's worth noting that this is not being put out as Marvel Miniatures Game etc. They presented this on FB as the Spider-Man Miniatures Game. So starting from his more close knight group of street heroes, there's a lot more similarities to the BMG.
Even still though, Spidey deals with a LOT of powered bad guys and heroes to boot.
I would imagine we'll see the Maggia, The Hand, Wild Pack, and maybe the Sinister Six.
I would also imagine we'll see Kraven, Stilt Man, Madame Web, and ooh.. Maybe Jackal.. that could be interesting. There could also be Smythe and the Spider Slayers but I don't know if that would be a standalone gang or what.
Kingpin, Rose, Hammerhead, Hobgoblin, Jack'O'Lantern, Fancy Dan/Ox/Montana, Hood, Big Man, Puma, Black Cat, Jigsaw, and a few others are all 'classic' mafia goons that would replicate a Batman-esque gang structure.
Then you can branch into Shocker, Rhino, Boomerang, Beetle, Speed Demon, Justin Hammer, and other similar crooks who are either mercenaries for villains/mafia or criminal enterprises in and of themselves.
Venom's symbiote, over the years, has been shown to have silly levels of capabilities for damaging folks, so while not stronger than the Hulk, we've gotten lots of what-ifs where the symbiotes take out pretty even the likes of Hulk/Thor.
Why, oh why, did they lead with one of the worst Spider-Man storylines in recent memory? I mean, I get it. The point is that Spidey could have minions, but still. There are a million better ways they could have done it without resorting to Superior Spider-Man.
Spiderlings and bots, derp. What a wasted opportunity, I want my Spidey gang to be Spiderham, 2099, Spiderclone, Ultimate, 6-armed Spidey,SpiderHulk, Armored Spidey and Captain Universe Spidey. Is that so much to ask?
ArtIsGreat wrote: Spiderlings and bots, derp. What a wasted opportunity, I want my Spidey gang to be Spiderham, 2099, Spiderclone, Ultimate, 6-armed Spidey,SpiderHulk, Armored Spidey and Captain Universe Spidey. Is that so much to ask?
Considering the points cost of such a team, yeah it is too much to ask.
This gives people an option to run the Boss + Minions style of game that they are used to from the BMG or, if like you they do not like that style, go straight into the Spiderman/Green Goblin proper with a friend like Daredevil or Punisher.
I can't take spiderlings against the Sinister Six!
If they can't be bothered to make new rules why pick a character that doesn't fit the style? Cap with Shield vs Red skull and Hydra would've made sense.
ArtIsGreat wrote: Spiderlings and bots, derp. What a wasted opportunity, I want my Spidey gang to be Spiderham, 2099, Spiderclone, Ultimate, 6-armed Spidey,SpiderHulk, Armored Spidey and Captain Universe Spidey. Is that so much to ask?
Considering the points cost of such a team, yeah it is too much to ask.
This gives people an option to run the Boss + Minions style of game that they are used to from the BMG or, if like you they do not like that style, go straight into the Spiderman/Green Goblin proper with a friend like Daredevil or Punisher.
It does look like PP Spidey, Daredevil and Punisher is just about a full 350Rep team (well, 340, but that's close enough), which is pretty cool. I'm kind of dissapointed we don't have a card for Elektra yet, as DD, Punisher and her would be a really cool band to run. Not really sold on any of the Goblin stuff, again I like the idea of all-character teams so I'm hoping we'll see a few more villains get released before I take the plunge. It's worth noting that the cops and prisoner profiles from BMG would work in this system easily enough for those that want more 'traditional' bands. You could even go as far as running Gordon as a counts-as Captain Stacey, or Deadshot as a counts-as Bullseye... or even, dare I say it, Alfred as Aunt May!
The Spiderman game gives me mixed feelings. I've always loved Marvel from the old comics/cartoons and the new films but the henchmen are putting me off.
I'd like a normal Spiderman in a good pose, have you see the clawed option of the new model, not into that but I have no idea where this version of him sits.
The Green Goblin model on the other hand looks very impressive, I also like the Goblin Knight model but not the little dudes.
Punisher and Daredevil would be cool if we could have Elektra, I wonder if she being re-sculpted as she's no longer in the store, actually none of the older models are from the Marvel universe I'm guessing they will be re-released.
I'm more looking forawrd to seeing crossover Batreps with Spidey and Batman..
Looking forward to seeing Joker take on the likes of SHIELD and HYRDA..
But I am a little disappointed in areas, as I would have liked to see BMG get at least all its gangs specified in the book done before starting off in a 'new' game, especially that they have so little to do now with only Freeze and Organised Gang needing at least core starters...
H.B.M.C. wrote:A Spider-man game? Why not a Marvel Heroes game?
I imagine, seeing as we already have Daredevil and Punisher confirmed to feature, neither of which are hugely related to most Spidey stuff, that in that same way that the Batman Miniatures Game features the likes of TV Green Arrow and movie Watchmen, the Spidey Miniatures Game will be a byword for many street-level Marvel heroes. I mean, we already know SHIELD and Hydra are coming, and they're hardly the first thing you think of when you think Spidey.
Compel wrote:Maybe they haven't ironed out the fully fledged "Marvel Heroes" concept yet and the scale of super powers involved.
Therefore, the spiderman game is essentially an interim measure, so that the marvel fans aren't left out?
I must agree, it does feel like this is a stopgap. I posted a few bits on the BMG forum about how several things here just seem poorly thought out (Venom is way too good, Spidey is way too weak, Punisher should not be tougher than Spiderman, Green Goblin has more ranged weapons than The Arrow!) as if this were some kind of stopgap before the 'full' Marvel game.
Honestly, I've been waiting for this for a long time, but the choice for the first wave of minis and the frankly odd rules leaves me very much on the fence. Of the new stuff out this month, the only one I'd like is the Superior Spiderman, if only to be able to paint him up in the Civil War 'Iron Spider' suit.
I must agree, it does feel like this is a stopgap. I posted a few bits on the BMG forum about how several things here just seem poorly thought out (Venom is way too good, Spidey is way too weak, Punisher should not be tougher than Spiderman, Green Goblin has more ranged weapons than The Arrow!) as if this were some kind of stopgap before the 'full' Marvel game.
Honestly, I've been waiting for this for a long time, but the choice for the first wave of minis and the frankly odd rules leaves me very much on the fence. Of the new stuff out this month, the only one I'd like is the Superior Spiderman, if only to be able to paint him up in the Civil War 'Iron Spider' suit.
Yikes!
Is there any indication that they're listening to you and things might be changed?
Because if not, I'm a lot less excited about this game...
I must agree, it does feel like this is a stopgap. I posted a few bits on the BMG forum about how several things here just seem poorly thought out (Venom is way too good, Spidey is way too weak, Punisher should not be tougher than Spiderman, Green Goblin has more ranged weapons than The Arrow!) as if this were some kind of stopgap before the 'full' Marvel game.
Honestly, I've been waiting for this for a long time, but the choice for the first wave of minis and the frankly odd rules leaves me very much on the fence. Of the new stuff out this month, the only one I'd like is the Superior Spiderman, if only to be able to paint him up in the Civil War 'Iron Spider' suit.
Yikes!
Is there any indication that they're listening to you and things might be changed?
Because if not, I'm a lot less excited about this game...
The folks involved with the rules do post on the forums a fair bit, but I've not seen anything on this rules release yet (previously, there have been betas for suggestions on which they took community feedback ect, but nothing like that for the Spidey stuff thus far) so I imagine it's pretty set in stone. However, it does look like I'm far from the only one pointing out these issues, particularly on Spiderman's lack of power (in points terms, he's close to the likes of Deathstroke, Arkham Knight Batman and Titan Bane, and would get pounded into the dirt by any of those. Meanwhile, Venom costs only a few points more than those guys, and my first impression is that he could pretty handily beat them), so maybe there will be some movement, or at least some impact on future releases.
I get the impression that there has to be something major we haven't seen for this game yet. At the moment, it just seems very haphazard in balance terms, compared to the usually-pretty-balanced Batman counterpart).
Thanks for the update - and thanks for fighting the fight for all of us in an effort to get them to get the Spider-Man game 'right' (or at least 'more right' and/or 'close') in terms of power levels and such!
I must agree, it does feel like this is a stopgap. I posted a few bits on the BMG forum about how several things here just seem poorly thought out (Venom is way too good, Spidey is way too weak, Punisher should not be tougher than Spiderman, Green Goblin has more ranged weapons than The Arrow!) as if this were some kind of stopgap before the 'full' Marvel game.
Honestly, I've been waiting for this for a long time, but the choice for the first wave of minis and the frankly odd rules leaves me very much on the fence. Of the new stuff out this month, the only one I'd like is the Superior Spiderman, if only to be able to paint him up in the Civil War 'Iron Spider' suit.
Yikes!
Is there any indication that they're listening to you and things might be changed?
Because if not, I'm a lot less excited about this game...
The folks involved with the rules do post on the forums a fair bit, but I've not seen anything on this rules release yet (previously, there have been betas for suggestions on which they took community feedback ect, but nothing like that for the Spidey stuff thus far) so I imagine it's pretty set in stone. However, it does look like I'm far from the only one pointing out these issues, particularly on Spiderman's lack of power (in points terms, he's close to the likes of Deathstroke, Arkham Knight Batman and Titan Bane, and would get pounded into the dirt by any of those. Meanwhile, Venom costs only a few points more than those guys, and my first impression is that he could pretty handily beat them), so maybe there will be some movement, or at least some impact on future releases.
I get the impression that there has to be something major we haven't seen for this game yet. At the moment, it just seems very haphazard in balance terms, compared to the usually-pretty-balanced Batman counterpart).
Unfortunately, balance is always a rough point in games that seek to put comics into a multi-player experience. I used to play Heroclix, and the 'you can play almost anyone' aspect of the game would habitually lead to figures that were either too weak, too powerful, or simply inaccurate to the comics.
To that extent, I would almost think that limited rules sets would be better: that is, a "Batman Game" set, balanced for Batman, the Bat-family, their rogues gallery and other 'street level' heroes (the Outsiders, maybe up to something like Doom Patrol).
The alternative never really seems to work out. How, after all, does one have a uniform stat system that can accurately depict both Paste Pot Pete and Dr. Manhattan?
H.B.M.C. wrote:A Spider-man game? Why not a Marvel Heroes game?
I imagine, seeing as we already have Daredevil and Punisher confirmed to feature, neither of which are hugely related to most Spidey stuff, that in that same way that the Batman Miniatures Game features the likes of TV Green Arrow and movie Watchmen, the Spidey Miniatures Game will be a byword for many street-level Marvel heroes. I mean, we already know SHIELD and Hydra are coming, and they're hardly the first thing you think of when you think Spidey.
Compel wrote:Maybe they haven't ironed out the fully fledged "Marvel Heroes" concept yet and the scale of super powers involved.
Therefore, the spiderman game is essentially an interim measure, so that the marvel fans aren't left out?
I must agree, it does feel like this is a stopgap. I posted a few bits on the BMG forum about how several things here just seem poorly thought out (Venom is way too good, Spidey is way too weak, Punisher should not be tougher than Spiderman, Green Goblin has more ranged weapons than The Arrow!) as if this were some kind of stopgap before the 'full' Marvel game.
Honestly, I've been waiting for this for a long time, but the choice for the first wave of minis and the frankly odd rules leaves me very much on the fence. Of the new stuff out this month, the only one I'd like is the Superior Spiderman, if only to be able to paint him up in the Civil War 'Iron Spider' suit.
I just want to point out.. in the comics, DD and Spidey are good friends and Punisher's first appearance was in fact in Spider-Man. Spidey and DD operate out of New York and are both Avengers. While Punisher doesn't usually team up with Spidey, he has on more than a few occasions. They have also been at odds.. in fact more often than not. Punisher stole Spidey's web shooter and used it to great effect in a story arc. Anyway.. I get what you're saying but the differences aren't as great as you might think. Spidey gets around and has teamed up with .... like.. everyone.. so that's going to leave a lot of doors open. I do hope that the aformentioned broader Marvel game is something we'll see but if not, there's always Heroclix.. right??? lol, ok ok.. that was bad..
Edit: Also, totes want a Scarlet Spider Ben Reilly version at one point too.
I can see why they went with Spider-Man for the Marvel version of Batman, he has the most visually different variations of any Marcel Character I can think of.
Spider-Man (Classic)
Iron Spider
6 Arm Spider-Man
Symbiote Spider-Man
Ultimate Spider-Man Peter Parker and/or Miles Morales
Scarlet Spider
I remember the old comics my grandma had over 20 years ago... didn't the hulk, punisher, and wolverine all fight spiderman? If so they can pretty much add in any majob marvel character.
I'm hoping for classic wolverine, deadpool, and captain america.
As for the toughness issue. The punisher and others seem far tougher than spidey. Read all the old comics. Spidey had fast reflexes and super strength, but he couldn't take much damage like venom or the punisher could.
Knight models has been very good at putting fluff into the rules so far
Ugh...its a Tim "Fething Tracer" Bradstreet Punisher. I'd have much preferred a Dillon or even better, a grizzled Campbell Punisher than a slick backed hair Vampire:The Masquerade reject.
Oh, I have no issue with Spidey, Punisher and DD all teaming up, it's an awesome combo and one that I will almost certainly run at some point. My issue was more that Spidey seems waaay too underpowered compared to the rest; he's exceptionally mobile, but his toughness and damage output mean that it's going to take him a fair while just to lay out a Henchman or two, let alone going head to head with someone like Goblin or Venom.
The rule about no VPs for casualties makes sense, but does also mean that taking Punisher in a Parker-Spidey team is a waste; he's all about killing, and with the two guns just about the best guy in the game for that job, but he won't be achieving anything with all that firepower. Likewise, when they (presumably) add cops to this game, their Arrests will be useless with Parker as with the way the rule is worded, there aren't any VPs for that too (easily fixed just by writing in an exception for Arrests, it's an oversight as it stands).
They were posted on the BMG forums; Venom went up on the site briefly, then vanished. Behold:
Interestingly, this Marvel stuff is technically under the Knight Models Legends range, I hope that doesn't mean they end up KM exclusive. Has anyone seen them up for pre-order anywhere else yet?
Nice Thanks for sharing, do you have any more? it seems a lot of them have 'disappeared' so was wondering if any more had cards that are not available anymore?
Yeah i hope this isn't a KM exclusive as well as I think this has the potential to add more BMG players for crossover games
Ah, I did say I was going to copy over the whole list but I seem to have forgotten... Here goes!
Spidey Stuff:
Goblin stuff:
Also, apparently SMMG crews are meant to be set at 500 Rep according to the Tales of a Tabletop Skirmisher blog... Seems an interesting way of doing things, I might have a play and see what Batman crews can do at 500 and if that levels the playing field at all...
Interestingly, this Marvel stuff is technically under the Knight Models Legends range, I hope that doesn't mean they end up KM exclusive. Has anyone seen them up for pre-order anywhere else yet?
It will all be KM exclusive for now. No one knows why as of now other than guessing. I would assume it has to do with their contracts with the respective companies, but I have no clue to be honest.
I'd assume if the game sells well enough direct, they would put it out like they do with BMG to other stores
Interestingly, this Marvel stuff is technically under the Knight Models Legends range, I hope that doesn't mean they end up KM exclusive. Has anyone seen them up for pre-order anywhere else yet?
It will all be KM exclusive for now. No one knows why as of now other than guessing. I would assume it has to do with their contracts with the respective companies, but I have no clue to be honest.
I'd assume if the game sells well enough direct, they would put it out like they do with BMG to other stores
In that case, I suggest that anyone in the UK or USA looking to get in on the Spidey stuff grabs the existing models from a retailer of choice (TrollTrader or The Outpost are good UK ones, don't know about the US). The cards will presumably all be free, so do yourselves a favour and save on both the minis and the shipping!
MM has a very limited stock for Marvel atm, and I'm assuming won't be able to restock,
Meeplemart has plenty of Marvel stock left but only ships to Canada.
You could contact Endalyon at his webstore and see if he could get in some Marvel stuff. If he can, everyone in the States can take advantage of our abysmal Canadian dollar atm
Also, KM do free shipping over 100 euros. So great for bulk ordering, shipping to the States and Canada is a tad sketchy due to Spanish post though. I've ordered direct and had it both be really fast and agonizingly slow. It's a lot better shipped to Europe though.
Maybe Spidey's weakness is meant to reflect rules where he gets the tar beaten out of him before thinking about Aunt May and Mary Jay and getting his second wind
Been reading a lot of punisher comics latley so I picked up the punisher model. Doesn't have the card but I can print it. Might try to find a way to use him in the batman game while waiting for the marvel game to have more stuff that is like.
I am quite lucky that through Christmas pressies and a few purchases I made for myself I now own all the scarecrow milita miniatues for the batman game. Problem is I have no fething idea how I am going to play the Gatling brute due to his very high cash cost.
carlos13th wrote: Been reading a lot of punisher comics latley so I picked up the punisher model. Doesn't have the card but I can print it. Might try to find a way to use him in the batman game while waiting for the marvel game to have more stuff that is like.
I am quite lucky that through Christmas pressies and a few purchases I made for myself I now own all the scarecrow milita miniatues for the batman game. Problem is I have no fething idea how I am going to play the Gatling brute due to his very high cash cost.
Easy.
Waltz up the middle of table or in a place of LoS to the rooftops of buildings..
Set up threat range.
Guard Brute with other Militia/Free Agents.
I tell you now, nobody and I mean nobody will want that thing firing and will get it off the board as soon as they can because that high cost certainly really, really pays off when fighting against sidekick heavy bands or bands with big monster in, paying back its rep.
Tactically against swarms the Brute really suppresses them when split firing so, even if it doesn't get it rep cost back in killing, then it will most certainly get it back in tactical flexibility.
Only thing you have to worry about is board placement but after that then you're all set
I more meant how to actually fit it in a list and still afford other gak due to it costing about $800. But thanks for the tips on how to use it. i am sure it will come in handy.
I think you need to have either generic thugs or no funding cost free agents to fit it in your list as Militia have a lot of guns. Also if you want to use both Brutes you need a $500 Arkham Knight. So it's really hard fitting all the Militia in.
I think that they are looking mostly at street heroes and super criminals, in a similar way to the batman game. So i think heroes like black cat, moon knight, heroes of hire, cloak and dagger, darkhawk, and sleepwalker would be good choices. The ghost rider, dr. Strange and brother voodoo would be good but might be too powerful for this game.
Personally, I'm questioning whether or not there will be multiple versions of the Marvel game now. A Spiderman Game opens a lot of street level heroes and such, but has a very specific set of objectives that don't make sense for a number of other factions. Also, the rules are published online for free and there's not really any indication that a book will follow.
We know there's going to be SHIELD and Hydra; I'm guessing that's going to be their own game with their own objective. Maybe expanding into other agencies like AIM.
We also know there's a number of models that don't fit either very well, like Loki and Thanos. Maybe a third game with Avengers or X-Men as the focus.
Really, all that we know is that we don't know KM's plans.
I think the spider man game is an Expansion set For the batman game rather then its own game. Yes, like batman, their will be a focus on street level heroes and villians (in order to maintain ballance) groups like shield, hydra, aim, mob groups like kingpin, maggia famlies, and the hood and the hand would make perfect sence.
I think that meny members of the avengers, x-men, fantastic four, mi:11 and alpha flight are just too powerful for this game.
I've seen a few rumblings on the BMG forums that the first BMG supplement will be turning up in early 2016, the name 'Gods and Monsters' has been thrown around, and it's been mentioned that some of the current 'oddities' (ie. rules that currently do nothing, or don't interact with anything, or weapons/traits that seem pointless) will make a bit more sense.
As mentioned regarding some of the Marvel stuff, I think there is a definite ceiling on what can be reasonably included in the system before it just becomes too broken, so I do hope they don't push it too far. At the same time, the prospect of some more heavy hitters in BMG interests me.
Yeah, I'm assuming (if it's even a thing and not just speculation that's become rumour somewhere along the line) it'll share nothing with the comic or animated movie of the same name, but rather just serve as a catch all title for an expansion introducing the more powerful heroes and villains of the DC universe (although as I say, hopefully not too powerful; a system that starts to break down with the likes of Venom and The Green Goblin cannot handle Superman or Wonder Woman or Doomsday, even in their assorted toned down forms).
Paradigm wrote: Yeah, I'm assuming (if it's even a thing and not just speculation that's become rumour somewhere along the line) it'll share nothing with the comic or animated movie of the same name, but rather just serve as a catch all title for an expansion introducing the more powerful heroes and villains of the DC universe (although as I say, hopefully not too powerful; a system that starts to break down with the likes of Venom and The Green Goblin cannot handle Superman or Wonder Woman or Doomsday, even in their assorted toned down forms).
Well if they did Lobo (who meant to be arguably more indestructible that the big S) and Swamp Thing (Who is meant to be basically a god) then Supes may come around..
But I agree, I hope they don't bring the meta-beings into it. I play BMG/SMG for the characters and the turf war style they play, not a team of just and only characters (which is what I'm seeing already)..
To be fair, I am a big fan of all-character teams, nothing like taking the Bat-family or Team Arrow for a spin, and I'm building towards a Suicide Squad as well. The issue is not heroes but the drastically more powerful heroes. Lobo and Swamp Thing are already drastically toned down, but I don't think you could drop Superman to the same level without ruining him... He'd need to be 350 points in his weakest form, I think (say the Man of Steel movie version, rather than the 'I can do anything' Silver Age version), and even then, the d6 system can't cover the gap between Clown With Knife and Superman....
One way to implement it (and this is just me brainstorming, I have no insight into what's coming up) would be having a trait (called, perhaps, Gods and Monsters or something similar) that meant the mechanics stay the same, but that character uses a D10 rather than a D6. That allows higher caps on action counters (eg, you could give Superman Attack 8 or something. 6s would still block, but he could make more attacks than anyone else in the game at the moment), and means you can do more powerful stats (likewise, Strength 2+ on a D6 on Spidey is not as good as Strength 2+ on a D10 on Supes).
Doubt anything like that'll happen though... could be a house-rule project at some point.
Anyone know how these scale next to Malifaux miniatures (the new plastic kind)? Was thinking of making an alternate crew using the Joker and Harley Quinn, but only if they are the right size.
EDIT: Height-wise, it's pretty much a perfect match, I just put J and Harley up next to Sonnia and Samuel Hopkins and there was only a couple of mm difference in it that's accounted for by pose. Both Malifaux and Batman minis tend to vary a fair bit in build and bulk, though, so if there were to be an issue that's where it would be (Joker and Harley are both skinny as hell, probably about the same bulk or lack thereof as someone like Lady Justice, thinner than the two I checked them against). Base sizes are the same. Does that help at all?
Hmm, I have a sudden urge to repaint Lady Justice as Katana now...
I was saddened by the fact that the Dark Carnival set was only available for a limited time, and the price they were asking for it. So I thought about making my own set using Eden miniatures (the "Jokers" gang, of course) as a bunch of psychotic Circus performers.
Then was wondering who I could use as Colette and Cassandra. Went browsing for miniatures and the Killing Joke Joker and Animated Series Harley Quinn showed up and well, it seemed like fait accompli
Alternate cards are, so far, only available as prizes at official tournaments. That's a pretty restrictive club and fans have been asking for a loosening of that rule for some time now.
The biggest issue is that the exclusive alternate cards are considered fully legal for tournament play, but KM refuse to share them for the most part; I'm not a tourey guy myself, but I'd be quite annoyed if I showed up at a cometitive event, my opponent puts down, say, Talia (so I'm expecting a melee model) and then reveals it's the event exclusive version with a crossbow on the stat card (I've not seen the card, but I've seen it mentioned).
Same goes for the Batmobile card that is both legal and kept secret thus far; if they're allowing this stuff in competitive events then they ought to make them available to see.
That said, this might be setting a good precedent if those ones above are official releases; alternate cards without models would be a cool way to grow the range even when stuff isn't being released in mini form.
Maybe the folks who actually have batman tournaments will start posting hi-res pics so we can print/play those cards for casual play. I have no idea how many alternate cards have been made (not good for the completionist in me).
Thanks to Drazz for posting those last two cards, anyway you can get a more close-up pic or (even better) a scan of the cards?
OK, I was getting the old cards ready to share and a new one showed up today. So, fist the new one (definitely not an homage to a character from a different IP):
Damn, that alternate Ninja profile is awesome! Might have to give him a run at some point, the Endurance 6, Veteran and 5 Attack/4+ Strength is brutal!
I really wish they would put these up on the builder, and what would be really good is some for the non-duplicable models in the Henchman blisters; I can use Gotham Policeman 3 times, but I'd end up with 3 Agent Rons, an alternate card for that model would really make the prospect more appealing to a lot of players, I think.
I'm interested in the Spiderman miniatures game and have never played the Batman game. I was thinking of picking up a couple of the Marvel 35mm miniatures like Doc Oc but then thought maybe they took them down to repackage them into a whole crew so I would then end up buying him twice if I later want the crew. For you folks already playing the batman game does that sound like how the releases work or likely to happen? Cheers
Compel wrote: I believe the 'Spiderman miniatures game' models are only going to be available directly through the Knight Models website.
Any of the marvel minis you buy from anywhere else won't have the marvel cards packaged with them.
That's not to say you can't download them and print them off for home/club games of course.
There are distributors that still have many of the models for sale. I just don't want to buy them if they are going to show up in six months as part of a crew that I will want to get anyway. That's what I was fishing for people's thoughts on.
I don't think the early Marvel releases will be replaced into crew sets. First, most of Knight Models SPUs are single models. Second, the two released crew sets feature new models; there was already a Spider-Man and a Green Goblin, but new versions were used to avoid the repack.
I know I have picked up almost all the Marvel singles released before the game.
drazz wrote: I don't think the early Marvel releases will be replaced into crew sets. First, most of Knight Models SPUs are single models. Second, the two released crew sets feature new models; there was already a Spider-Man and a Green Goblin, but new versions were used to avoid the repack.
I know I have picked up almost all the Marvel singles released before the game.
That makes sense when you look at the new packs they all have new miniatures. The other thing I just noticed is that the SM game isn't getting its own book from the looks of it. I read on the FB page they are just providing a pdf to go along with the BM book. Now the batman book does look like a top notch book from what I can see but It would have been great to get something specific to the SM game. Perhaps that will come later.
drazz wrote: I don't think the early Marvel releases will be replaced into crew sets. First, most of Knight Models SPUs are single models. Second, the two released crew sets feature new models; there was already a Spider-Man and a Green Goblin, but new versions were used to avoid the repack.
I know I have picked up almost all the Marvel singles released before the game.
What's the best place to do this for USA based customers?
Also, any rumors on the KM forums/groups about what other miniatures will be featured.
So far, all we know faction-wise is Spiderman, Goblin Cult, SHIELD and Hydra. There's no real word yet on how the game is going to expand, whether they're going to push it right up to the likes of Thor and Thanos or keep it street level, or even how often we'll be seeing new releases.
At this point, it seems to be just a plug-in for the Batman game, though presumably it'll get its own rulebook at some point...
Best US sites are the norm--MIniatureMarket and Warstore. Ebay has some deals on occasion, and troll the UK sites for god deal while watching the shipping charges.
Literally no one outside KM knows anything about the progression of the Marvel line and the new game. There was really no indication that a game of that type was coming at all. So, beyond the tabs set up in the KM store, there's not much more than speculation.
There are still rumors of a higher-powered game for the future. No known date or progress.
There is also rumored to be an expansion set of rules for Batman, including the rules for vehicles (like the Batmobile released recently).
Something seems very dodgy about those Owls paintjobs, rare for KM, I'd want to see the unpainted minis before I got those (though more for the Court is of course awesome). Cyborg is a must-buy, really great representation of the character. Would've preferred the Arrow/Legends of Tomorrow Hawkgirl with the armour, but that one ain't bad.
So, KM looks like its not afraid of adding the Metas to the mix now. Cyborg, Hawkgirl, Black Manta...
I like the Court models. I think what you're seeing is that there's a dullness to them; but I think that's appropriate for the characters. To me, they look more fun to paint than the original crew. Although the original crew had dynamic models, they I found them difficult to find character when painting.
Catman is the leader of the Secret Six. Originally a joke villain of Batman (overweight and ineffective), he was "reborn" into a fairly capable field agent.
Still waiting for Wildcat and Manbat, but good releases here.
Old school (Golden Age?) Catman was a wacky villain for Batman. Pretty much was evil Batman who liked Cats.
Then in the late 90s he became quick punchline for Catwoman and Green Arrow in their respsective series as a pathetic character.
2000s he saw a comeback thanks to Simone Gail's "Secret Six" in which 6 villains team up and generally be awesome (but not "good")
His previous incarnations were addressed and was part of his newly cxreated backstory where after hitting rockbottom he actually went to live with the big cats in Africa.
Didn't go too well to start with but it toughened him up and only returned to the human world after poachers killed his pride.
Now it is Batman without money or a strict moral code. Oh and has no compunctions of messing people up with his knives.
I think my 'problem' such as it is with the owls is that the first 4 are packed with detail and I find them really characterful, these just look a bit samey and plain, which is emphasised by the Animation-style paintjobs. I'm sure they're fine models, I just prefer the first set.
As far as models of metas go (rather than rules), we're just two models shot of having The Seven (original Justice League members). Bats, Supes, Wonder Woman, Flash, Hawkgirl, add Green Lantern and Martian Manhunter for the classic JL Animated Series, swap Cyborg for Hawkgirl and add Aquaman and GL for the New52 version. Pretty awesome... I really hope the Supers game drops soon, I'd like to think it'll be March/April to tie in with Dawn of Justice (and give us a new armoured Batman while they're at it).
Automatically Appended Next Post: Cheers for the Catman explanation, I might have to look into him a little more... The mini has a quite nice cape...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Just noticed Hawkgirl has Teamwork with Hawkman, so I guess we can expect him soon too.
Knight Models wrote:We are glad to announce our newest brand game! Marvel Universe Miniature Game! Marvel Universe Miniature Game is a completely new game system, based on the entire Marvel Universe! Soon you'll be able to join your favorite superhero groups and factions, and embark into an amazing miniature game.
The first release will include 3 faction starter sets, X-Men, Avengers, and Guardians of the Galaxy, where you'll find everything you need to play, including a small-sized rulebook, 4 character cards, and 4 incredibly detailed white-metal miniatures representing your favorite superheroes!
You'll find MU Miniature Game on your favorite Friendly Local Gaming Store!
Stay tuned for more news about MARVEL UNIVERSE MINIATURE GAME!
Just saw this on facebook. So how does this go with the new Spiderman game?
Is it... could it be... is this the supers game? With Avengers, X-men and the Guardians as the starters, and the promise of a new game system, I think it just might be! COMMENCE HYPE!
So, guesses on the starters? I'm thinking:
Avengers: Cap, Thor, Stark and Widow, all existing minis
X-men: Wolverine, Cyclops and Collossus from the existing range, someone new?
Guardians: We only have Rocket so far, so with any luck, brand new minis for Starlord, Drax and Gamora (I think Groot would be too big, he'll probably be a large blister like Croc and Grundy)
If there are 4 characters in a starter, I expect them to be in the £40 range, but I can live with that, so long as there's some kind of saving over buying them all individually.
I'm assuming that SMG will remain as an add-on for BMG, some releases will get cards for both perhaps?
That Ironman... Wow. Nifty paint job, solid pose even if it does have a tactical rock.
Actually it's a really Iconic Thor too, and colossus looks good. Wolverine looks right but I'm not especially interested. Honestly would be torn between that and the batman game. Battle systems terrain is probably gonna be a constant nagging influence to pick up some models from either range.. sigh.
I will probably be all over this once they have a few forces available. Shame they seem to be separating daredevil punisher and Spidy from this though.
I'd not be surprised if they pop up at some point. Spidey has been integral to many Avengers lineups, after all. I think that in this, and the DC version if and when they get to it (Dawn of Justice tie-in would be nice, KM!), heroes from the 'street level' game will go up into the supers game, just not all the supers will do the reverse and appear in S/BMG.
Pretty sure they will be. Spiderman and Batman are built on the same mechanics and are 100% compatible, I've already seen a Spidey vs Joker batrep on the BMG forums. I'll be somewhat surprised if they don't do the same with the supers version.
Its fairly likely the Marvel and DC supers will have the same base mechanics. As pointed out, Batman and Spider-Man games already do (and have been officially listed as compatible from Knight Models).
We also get the fourth and last alternate tournament card today:
Wait.. was there a broader DC game that I somehow missed an announcement for?
This was already guessed at by at least a few of us. I'm happy this is how it's working out and if I were to guess, I'd say we'll likely see some of the staples plus tie ins with media.
Heroes We'll almost definitely see that aren't already in the picture:
Cyclops, Agent Venom, Cable, Colossus, Cap, Falcon-Cap, Luke Cage and Iron Fist, Doctor Strange, Ghost Rider, Vision, Hulk, Hawkeye, Black Widow, Gambit, Archangel, Hulkbuster, White Queen, Mr Fantastic, Beast, Namor, Black Bolt, Invis Woman, Thing, Human Torch, Black Panther
Villains:
Dr Doom, Kang (might be tricky), MODOK, Baron Mordo, Baron Zemo, Baron Von Strucker (I doubt all the barons but who knows), Magneto (he could be hero or villain at this point), Apocalypse, Thanos, Terrax, Mandarin, Annihilus, Grim Reaper, Crossbones, Red Skull, Living Laser, Loki, Enchantress, Executioner, Abomination, Absorbing Man, Leader
Wow.. I am going to cut it short there.. I could list out a lot more but at their speed this list alone could take a while to fill out.
These aren't necessarily the ones I think should be done first or feel like are guaranteed to be in the game. More, they are iconic or somehow relevant to major stories or upcoming films, shows etc.
My personal picks would be 90s x-men, classic avengers, fantastic four, and their iconic enemies.
So...any chance we'll get a Sinister Six (Original Lineup) box for the Spidey game?
As for insider info, yeah, sadly we rarely hear directly from the KM types. And there's a lot that we don't hear about until its happening. Take the Spider-Man game; no prior knowledge on that one. Though, we knew about the Batmobile for a little while ahead of time.
Mr Morden wrote: I need Magik and Shadowcat.................just saying..........oh and White Queen and Magneto - in fact an Inferno set would be just too glorious
I had thought about a similar lineup but more the Uncanny X-Men relaunch from a couple years ago. I think that lineup was Cyclops, Emma Frost, Magick, Magneto, and some new characters (if I remember).
Major event themed sets would be cool but man Marvel has no shortage of those..
EDIT: Oh.. I forgot Deadpool.. I would be thoroughly surprised if he managed to not be in the lineup.
drazz wrote: To be fair, I have a bit of inside info as an admin of one of KM's Facebook pages. And there has been direct communication about a DC supers game.
I really hope we are getting models for the new DC cinematic universe ... especially Suicide Squad *_* <3
I thought there was but without access I was not sure. It would be silly for him to not have rules then.. what with the movie and everything (it's soooo close too)
Mechanics are 2D8-based, rolling against stats... Interesting, sounds totally different from the BMG mechanics set. 4-7 models in an average team, combo moves like the Fastball Special are in (hell yes!), as are various buff and debuff powers.
First wave will be the 3 starters, and an additional blister release for each faction, SMG heroes and villains are expected to get rules for MUMG, but it's in no way compatible with the existing games/stat cards ect.
More info will be on that blog over the next couple of weeks.
I think (models pending) I'll be going for the Avengers first, X-men second, see how much of the Avengers vs X-men comic arc I can adapt to mini form... I love the Guardians, but AvX is one of my favourite Marvel runs.
I also need to complete the Avengers in time for the DC version, the Justice League will need someone to beat to a pulp after all!
While the models look fun to paint, if I actually try out the game...I'll probably just borrow some of the Heroclix I bought my daughter to keep her away from my other minis At least at first, the price tags are pretty high even if you only need a handful.
There is that... I would say they're worth the price tag when you're paying for the licence as well as (assembly issues aside) very nice, 35mm models and often a very large Tactical Rock/Gargoyle/Rooftop/Chimney Stack (see Firefly) But on the other hand, if you're either not going to get to game with them all that often, or simply want more bang for your buck, they're not the first line I'd recommend.
The minion/crew boxes aren't so bad but when they're $20 a pop and you compare them to Infinity... they're a lot more expensive and not necessarily better. A little larger, yes, but I've seen some side-by-sides that make even that a tad questionable. Its not absurd, per se, and they don't expect you to buy dozens of them or anything.
It's mostly a tactic I use on myself to keep my interest at a lower level because the number I would buy should I give in is.. troubling.
I'd think Storm or Jean for the 4th X-person, Nightcrawler or Beast could be awesome additions as well. I'd say Charles would be a natural choice, but at the same time, I see no way you could put him in the game and still have the opponent get to move some minis.
Opponent: I'm moving over here [reaches for tape measure
X-men player: I've got Professor X, so no, you're going to run off the board...
Opponent: Ok, fine... [grumbling and removing minis from play]
Up to the mods, I guess, but if a new thread for Marvel (or KM generally) is needed then I'm happy to take on the OP update duties, I'll set it up tomorrow unless they'd rather have all the KM talk in one place.
I'd hazard a guess that most folks interested in the Marvel stuff will have at least a passing interest in the DC bits and vice versa, so I don't think the two need splitting. This thread is a little old though, so perhaps a new ongoing/more regularly updated one might be a good idea?
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