And I suspect most(if not all) of the people stressing over what to do about laying figures down, have not played the game with, you know, another human. And once they do so, they will quickly come to the conclusion that it is FAR easier to just get on with the game and lay the figures down, then, well, stress over what to do about laying figures down.
I can assure you I've played games with another human for 15 years. And I've come to a very different conclusion than you. I'm not stressing at all.
H.B.M.C. wrote: What's the big deal with lying models down, exactly?
1) Damage to paint when touching a surface 2) Damage to models, thin parts breaking 3) Unclear which square a model has 4) Big models taking up multiple squares laying down 5) Difficult to identify which model is which (numbers on one side etc)
What's the big deal with using tokens, exactly?
Using tokens would mitigate all this:
1) No damage to paint 2) No damage to models 3) Very clear which square a model occupies 4) Big models only take up the space they're standing 5) Easy to identify which model is which
Also a bonus point for easier to see difference between stunned and knocked down for models that can only lay down on sides, not front or back.
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bound for glory wrote: Well, without adding more Derp(Derp), I will say that the best way to avoid the problem would be to use a good primer and varnish.
For over 25 years I have hit my BB/FF figures with 3 coats of gloss and a light coat of TESTORS DULLCOAT(to take the gloss away).
That will honestly keep the paint on your miniatures.
I always use primer. Varnish does horrendous things to the paint job, so that is out of the question.
For over 25 years I have never used gloss or light coat or any varnish except for a few tests. It never worked out.
Instead, I just handle my miniatures with care. That is, what I will say, is the best way to avoid the problem.
Coming from Warmcahine & Hordes recently, there are no models laid down what so ever. You can have 50+ models on the board and feats knocking down all opponent's models... using tokens. And this is one of the most competetive games you'll find. Trust me, tokens work.
Also a bonus point for easier to see difference between stunned and knocked down for models that can only lay down on sides, not front or back.
Especially the infamous Skink Runners, even more when you use the Warhammer Battle models as basis for conversion.
Squares are bigger with this new edition, and that's great honestly. Trouble is that models are bigger as well, not even talking about their dynamic poses. Dwarves should be fine (they're still dwarves, after all). I'm more concerned about Big Guys, since I saw that "dynamic" Ogre. That Deathroller model looks also huge and pretty much able to "spread itself" in more than one square. I really wonder how they will manage to make a believable Treeman, though. The older one was a pain when knocked down, and I'm not talking about those who dared to use the old metal Warhammer Battle version (it was even worst to handle).
Basically, people who actually played the boardgame for years and use a lot of different models can see the advantages of using tokens in some situations. Please don't close your mind so easily.
sorry if this is off topic or has been asked already but while looking at the teams of legend https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/blood_bowl/teams_of_legend_en.pdf i notice skills or traits with extraordinary on them. does this mean anything special?
i also see that there is a "normal" column and "double" column by the players with some abbreviations under them like A, GSP etc... where do i find what those mean?
is this all carry over from a previous edition?
You say it like you're trying to convert someone to your religion. I've carefully weighed the pros and cons and decided I prefer lying models down.
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usernamesareannoying wrote: sorry if this is off topic or has been asked already but while looking at the teams of legend https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/blood_bowl/teams_of_legend_en.pdf i notice skills or traits with extraordinary on them. does this mean anything special?
i also see that there is a "normal" column and "double" column by the players with some abbreviations under them like A, GSP etc... where do i find what those mean?
is this all carry over from a previous edition?
It's for league play. When a player accumulates enough points you can roll to upgrade their skills, the letters refer to which skills they can take (G = General, A = Agility, P = Passing, M = Mutation and so on).
Download the "Blood Bowl Competition Rules" (google it) and look at page 63 for a description of the skills and page 26 for how player improvements work in leagues.
usernamesareannoying wrote: sorry if this is off topic or has been asked already but while looking at the teams of legend https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/blood_bowl/teams_of_legend_en.pdf i notice skills or traits with extraordinary on them. does this mean anything special?
i also see that there is a "normal" column and "double" column by the players with some abbreviations under them like A, GSP etc... where do i find what those mean?
is this all carry over from a previous edition?
It's for league play. When a player accumulates enough points you can roll to upgrade their skills, the letters refer to which skills they can take (G = General, A = Agility, P = Passing, M = Mutation and so on).
Download the "Blood Bowl Competition Rules" (google it) and look at page 63 for a description of the skills and page 26 for how player improvements work in leagues.
Actually, the rules for League Plays (and thus the importance of skill categories) are described in the Season 1 book. And yes, it's basically a rewrite of the old Compedium...with sometimes a few changes here and there.
"Extraordinary" Skills are basically skills that can't be learned by players when they get enough experience. Either you have it at the beginning, either you don't.
usernamesareannoying wrote: sorry if this is off topic or has been asked already but while looking at the teams of legend https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/blood_bowl/teams_of_legend_en.pdf i notice skills or traits with extraordinary on them. does this mean anything special? i also see that there is a "normal" column and "double" column by the players with some abbreviations under them like A, GSP etc... where do i find what those mean? is this all carry over from a previous edition?
It's for league play. When a player accumulates enough points you can roll to upgrade their skills, the letters refer to which skills they can take (G = General, A = Agility, P = Passing, M = Mutation and so on).
Download the "Blood Bowl Competition Rules" (google it) and look at page 63 for a description of the skills and page 26 for how player improvements work in leagues.
Actually, the rules for League Plays (and thus the importance of skill categories) are described in the Season 1 book. And yes, it's basically a rewrite of the old Compedium...with sometimes a few changes here and there.
The reason I mentioned the competition rules is because the competition rules can be downloaded for free in case someone didn't already own the GW Season 1 book, didn't want them running out to buy it needlessly.
The reason I mentioned the competition rules is because the competition rules can be downloaded for free in case someone didn't already own the GW Season 1 book, didn't want them running out to buy it needlessly.
As long as you don't try to make it sound like they're the official "free" rules of this new edition, sure.
Just be aware that there are changes between this one and the Season 1 book, even if they are small and not really noticeable at first sight. I expect they will be adding some "new things" for the next seasons as well. They won't just be adding teams and skills in the future, IMHO.
The reason I mentioned the competition rules is because the competition rules can be downloaded for free in case someone didn't already own the GW Season 1 book, didn't want them running out to buy it needlessly.
As long as you don't try to make it sound like they're the official "free" rules of this new edition, sure.
Yeah, they're final adaption of the official "free" rules of the previous edition
At this stage the changes are all pretty minor and people could totally play with the free CRP or the Living Rulebook. Slightly different, yeah, but it's not like you'd be playing a completely different game. Less changes than you get from one edition of 40k to the next.
But either way they were able to answer the question that was posed quicker than I could actually type it out and cheaper than buying the GW book
Were there supposed to be any rules in connection with the Forge World Referees? Anyone seen it in White Dwarf?
I found one source which states that they are an optional addition to the rules.
The ref starts on the pitch, but for each foul which is not called, the ref moves one step towards the fouling team (like score marker, 1-8). Next foul, roll above the current ref value, or suffer the punishment.
Any bribe used or player sent off will reset ref to neutral (pitch).
Goblin Ref: Roll injury on fouling player.
Halfling Ref: Remove one re-roll from fouling player's team, alternatively give one to the opponent.
Baxx wrote: Amazing! I can't believe this if official from GW, wasn't this the exact reason why they left Blood Bowl in the first place?
It's nice they're doing some conversion stuff, though I'm not really sure why you're surprised, a plastic BB team costs $35, a box of Blightkings and some Zombies is $55+35, so they make more money out of you if you convert from existing models than if you just buy an existing team.
I'm looking at converting Blorcs out of Brutes which I'm sure makes GW ecstatic as it's an extra $50 kit.
I feel like GW is messing with me. That exactly how I did my dark elf and Nurgle team 2 years ago . And that's exactly the idea I had to do my pro elf team using harlequins.
The ball is too big even on the human team minis. The ones actually held by the catcher and thrower are significantly smaller.
Would have been nice to have some 'conversion' balls on the sprue.
What would be the point of cheating by submitting games that didn't occur?
There's a trophy at the end, Games take 3 hours to play, you want to see your team higher on the list than someone elses...really...people will cheat for the most inane reasons.
With this set up. Me and 4 buddies could just make up games and then pop on down to our store and be the best group of players in the country
I just registered(I did it for the LULZ) and called all the stores running leagues in my AO(5 stores). 2 Had no one answer the phone, 1Had a lady that had no idea when the league would start, 1 had another lady say "maybe in Feb., I don't know for sure." The last, I made a plan to play some guy on Saturday morning.
What would be the point of cheating by submitting games that didn't occur?
There's a trophy at the end, Games take 3 hours to play, you want to see your team higher on the list than someone elses...really...people will cheat for the most inane reasons.
With this set up. Me and 4 buddies could just make up games and then pop on down to our store and be the best group of players in the country
The store owners are in charge of putting the results in, so if you come in and say "oh yeah I played 30 games this weekend and won them all, put it in", they'll probably tell you to frak off. Sigmar's Season of War was worldwide with results as well (though admittedly no prizes other than glory), and they store owners did a pretty good job of regulating things. They probably also don't want to piss off GW and then tarnish their relationship.
I mean, it could still happen, and I'm sure someone will try it, but still.
Cool, registered my Skaven team - gives me this weekend to sort out my Ratogres, and I'll see what matches I can arrange. The Special Play promo cards look decent enough a would like to collect a full set. I'll only have time for maybe 2 matches per week, but... gotta show support for these games!
I rather like he goblin ref rules as well - I recall something like that happening in the videogame (which might have been the inspiration!). The halfling... Not quite as interesting.
I just wish they would hurry up and start rolling out the star players. But in that note, I was in Nottingham for a meeting yesterday, swung by Warhammer World for the first time, and managed to pick up the last Grak and Crumbleberry pair! Definitely needs a little errata (too cheap by far, and the unique skill needs a little tweaking, they've even forgot to mark either as 'Loner'!), but the figures are gorgeous, and you can see where they are coming from with their playing style. ^_^ here's hoping they design plenty of new star players for this edition (but no more near-impossible-to-get exclusives, more timed-limited like the refs)
I wonder what the chances are of them casting up some of the old metal teams and star players as a gap fill, weird they're offering the service for some things, but not for blood bowl where at the moment, it's sorely needed.
Souleater wrote: I would rather see the rest of basic teams come out before they start working on Star Players.
Personally I only really care about the basic teams, I'm pretty "meh" on Star Players, but they'll probably use the star players as fillers to stretch out releases.
Some teams I think are difficult to convert and I'd like to see those ones updated. Lizardmen for example, though I'm probably biased on that one
Might be a newbie question, but is there an actual "tier listing" for BB? I keep eyeing up teams but I'm not sure if there are ones that are actually bad and lose more than they win, or are bad for league play.
Requizen wrote: Might be a newbie question, but is there an actual "tier listing" for BB? I keep eyeing up teams but I'm not sure if there are ones that are actually bad and lose more than they win, or are bad for league play.
Plenty of people put the teams into tiers, nothing concrete though, a google search can find you plenty of opinions on this matter.
Not all teams are balanced against each other.
It is harder to win with Halflings, Gobbos, Vampires, Underworld and Ogres, I only play these teams for fun, not competitively.
Requizen wrote: Might be a newbie question, but is there an actual "tier listing" for BB? I keep eyeing up teams but I'm not sure if there are ones that are actually bad and lose more than they win, or are bad for league play.
Plenty of people put the teams into tiers, nothing concrete though, a google search can find you plenty of opinions on this matter.
Not all teams are balanced against each other.
It is harder to win with Halflings, Gobbos, Vampires, Underworld and Ogres, I only play these teams for fun, not competitively.
I would consider Dwarves to be just about the best team out there. All players (except runner) start with block which is a major advantage. The also have high armor so it's harder to lose players. Berserkers can level the field against high strength teams, and all the line dwarves have tackle which hurts the fast agile teams.
Requizen wrote: Might be a newbie question, but is there an actual "tier listing" for BB? I keep eyeing up teams but I'm not sure if there are ones that are actually bad and lose more than they win, or are bad for league play.
Plenty of people put the teams into tiers, nothing concrete though, a google search can find you plenty of opinions on this matter.
Not all teams are balanced against each other.
It is harder to win with Halflings, Gobbos, Vampires, Underworld and Ogres, I only play these teams for fun, not competitively.
I would consider Dwarves to be just about the best team out there. All players (except runner) start with block which is a major advantage. The also have high armor so it's harder to lose players. Berserkers can level the field against high strength teams, and all the line dwarves have tackle which hurts the fast agile teams.
I would say they are the best team at low Team value definitely, because of the block on them all and decent armour.
I would not say they the best team out there though, their restricted movement is a big disadvantage which makes it easy for the fast agile teams to get around them.
I get a lot of my elves knocked out by them, but I win more than i lose, I also see well coached skaven and lizard men teams do well against them often.
Chaos teams seem to trump them blocking wise at high TV too, as they can get claw and four ST4 players.
YMMV though ofc, the only thing I can say for sure is that gobbos, flings, Ogres and Vampires can be horrible at times and I would not advise a new player to play them.
What is the status on mighty blow now? Noticed that the wording in the rulebook implied decision, that it wasn't automatic anymore. I've heard this interpretation from some players. Do you decide in advance, or it applies after?
feeder wrote: I've never heard of needing to "call" MB in advance.
Can you elaborate?
Can't remember if it's in the book, but we always played that you had to say if you were adding the +1 to armor break or injury before you rolled the armor break test. That's probably what he's referring to.
feeder wrote: I've never heard of needing to "call" MB in advance.
Can you elaborate?
Can't remember if it's in the book, but we always played that you had to say if you were adding the +1 to armor break or injury before you rolled the armor break test. That's probably what he's referring to.
"New" wording seems to make that clear as well, at least that was my impression of the rule. Combo with claw is cheap enough as it is without letting you hedge Mighty Blow.
I've seen this rule mistaken many times before GW's Blood Bowl 2016. But back then I knew the answer, MB applies automaticly (once) to where applicable.
Actually I did forget to compare, seems the texts are practically identical. So Mighty Blow works as before.
However, it does not stack with Claw on armor (8+, not 7+). It will however apply to injury if armor roll was 8+ with Claw. Also Piling On now works with both Claw and Mighty Blow, but you still have to use team re-roll to use it.
feeder wrote: I've never heard of needing to "call" MB in advance.
Can you elaborate?
Can't remember if it's in the book, but we always played that you had to say if you were adding the +1 to armor break or injury before you rolled the armor break test. That's probably what he's referring to.
I've never seen it played that way. How does it work in practice? Would you "save" the MB to try for the Injury, or base it on the player's armour?
Seems like playing MB that way reduces S skills to only Guard as a really useful one.
That is the interpretation I've seen other players make (incorrectly however).
Strength skills are maybe not filled with first-pickers, but they do have many skills in which are useful when you use players that come with them. And I wouldn't go high-tv Dwarves without Stand Firm... Side line brawlers surfing enemies to the crowd
I have all the GW Zug figures. I quite like the 2nd, smaller Zug. Not a big fan of the "unreleased" helmet swinging version, but that one seems to be a "fan favorite".
eekamouse wrote: For some reason I thought Zug was going to be plastic. He's both?
That's an Ogre. Zug is human. A big human, to be sure, but definitely not Ogre sized. But there will also be two resin Ogres; Morg'n'Thorg the classic Star Player, and Grak of Grak and Crumbleberry, which might be the source of your confusion.
skaven/dwarf pitch and dwarf team are up on the NZ GW site if anyone wants an early look. Again, I hope the pitch isn't limited cause I won't have enough money to drop an order for a couple weeks. GW has bled me dry with the last couple releases.
Thargrim wrote: skaven/dwarf pitch and dwarf team are up on the NZ GW site if anyone wants an early look. Again, I hope the pitch isn't limited cause I won't have enough money to drop an order for a couple weeks. GW has bled me dry with the last couple releases.
They already say sold out on the Australian store. Dunno if they'll be getting more in later.
Seeing 360's of the Dwarfs I don't mind them so much, if I ever finish painting the Skaven team I might pick up the Stunties.
I'm still not a fan of the flying Slayers, but it doesn't look too hard to just trim off the "support beard" and have them on their feet instead, maybe have them bounding off a rock or something to avoid having to cut up and repose the foot.
I've never really liked flying poses where the model is supported by something silly like their beard or cape, because to me it never looks like they're flying, it just looks like for whatever reason they have a magical beard or cape that is capable of supporting their weight.
Thargrim wrote: skaven/dwarf pitch and dwarf team are up on the NZ GW site if anyone wants an early look. Again, I hope the pitch isn't limited cause I won't have enough money to drop an order for a couple weeks. GW has bled me dry with the last couple releases.
They already say sold out on the Australian store. Dunno if they'll be getting more in later.
Seeing 360's of the Dwarfs I don't mind them so much, if I ever finish painting the Skaven team I might pick up the Stunties.
I'm still not a fan of the flying Slayers, but it doesn't look too hard to just trim off the "support beard" and have them on their feet instead, maybe have them bounding off a rock or something to avoid having to cut up and repose the foot.
I've never really liked flying poses where the model is supported by something silly like their beard or cape, because to me it never looks like they're flying, it just looks like for whatever reason they have a magical beard or cape that is capable of supporting their weight.
Same not a fan of the running beard eather but am getting them day one any news on extra models to build up to 16
sarduka42 wrote: Argh, the dwarf and skaven pitch is webstore exclusive and already sold out in the Australian store
Yup, guess I won't be seeing any of this stuff on my gaming table. Due to falce scarcity, lack of GW being able to keep up with demand. I mean how many GW releases have sold out on the webstore, the triumviriate, gangs of commorragh, all this stuff is next.
I thought people said the winter pitch was going to be restocked back at the open day? Unless I missed something it's been weeks upon weeks and no sign of it.
In the time it took me to log-in to PayPal from my basket, they sold out. I was... miffed (to say the least). Fortunely, I may have got a set from an independent retailer, but I was extremely lucky to do so.
Also managed to get a pitch, but was hoping the winter one would come back to coincide with the release.
GW *knkw* the demand is there, and they've had a long time to prep for these releases - why half-ass it with artificial stock limitations they way they have (and continue to do so)?
GW weren't sure what demand for Blood Bowl would be, so have exercised serious stock control.
I appreciate this is third hand info, if not four, but the source is one I trust to not be yanking my chain.
Snowboard should be restocked by March/April time - and he expects we'll see the Skaven/Dwarf board restocked in time (possibly around the the same time, if they've upped stock predictions)
But, I seriously urge people not to give into temptation to buy from Scalpers. Whilst it'd be nice if GW produced more stock in the first place, we're collectively part of the problem too, because we're the damned fools that ultimately make it worth their while.
GW *knkw* the demand is there, and they've had a long time to prep for these releases - why half-ass it with artificial stock limitations they way they have (and continue to do so)?
Maybe they just don't want to see it outsell the two core ranges??
That's twice now it's been reported they were caught unprepared by Blood Bowls popularity with a fair gap in between.
I wonder if it's ever occurred to them to use pre order as it's actually intended, to gauge interest before manufacture. Oh, of course, secrecy.
Joyboozer wrote: That's twice now it's been reported they were caught unprepared by Blood Bowls popularity with a fair gap in between.
I wonder if it's ever occurred to them to use pre order as it's actually intended, to gauge interest before manufacture. Oh, of course, secrecy.
It's not even secrecy - we've seen the Dwarfs months ago.
Shocking.. still not sure why GW doesn't do a one per customer limit for at least the first 24hrs on stuff like this.
Woke up at 10.05am.. by the time I was at the PC, dice gone, put cards, pitch and team in my basket.. went to checkout .. pitch gone at 10,26.. sadface.
Ah well got the team and cards.. and I'll probably pay stupid money for the dice on ebay next week.
Do GW manufacture their own dice or is it contracted out? I was lucky to get the Skaven BB dice, but was slightly miffed these were sold out when I logged in at 10.04 :(
Well if it goes live at 10:00 I'll be at my grandfathers funeral, so by the time that's over I'm sure they'll be up on ebay . Well regular dice for me.
Joyboozer wrote: That's twice now it's been reported they were caught unprepared by Blood Bowls popularity with a fair gap in between.
I wonder if it's ever occurred to them to use pre order as it's actually intended, to gauge interest before manufacture. Oh, of course, secrecy.
Do you think a pre order with a cut off two to three months before release would be as popular?
chances are the 1st couple of scalpers bought a couple of 100 sets each and poof gone in 60secs, GW don't give a rats ass who or why people buy them as long as they get the cash.
Honestly with BB becoming a scalplers paradise between GW ltd runs,FW event and WHW exclusives it is taking some of the fun out of it.
1. Have purchasing limits for these things. You see ebayers selling 30+ of a limit item and it's just a kick in the balls.
2. Do multiple runs of items of things that sell out.
I totally understand why GW do limited runs, especially of stuff they outsource like dice and the card pitches. They don't want stock sitting on the shelves if it doesn't sell and don't want to over invest.
But why the feth don't they just do a 2nd run and if that sells out, do a 3rd run.
EDIT: Actually it looks like GW are listening somewhat, the Dwarf dice are currently listed as 1 per customer. Is that a new update or did they swap it to 1 per customer after scalpers bought them all?
The snow pitch had a second run and as far as I'm aware although it says sold out on them. There was not a big point of it being made a limited edition
So I'm sure there will be more runs.
I hope quite a few more tbh. To really piss off the ebay sellers.
Ragweek wrote: I hope quite a few more tbh. To really piss off the ebay sellers.
If they just keep doing repeat runs of stuff they'll eventually kill off ebay scalpers because the scalpers won't be able to guess what to buy and what not to buy, which I'm totally fine with, more than happy to throw some salt on the leeches and make them lose some money
GW sent out e mails saying the boards and DICE will be back.in production as they know folk were annoyed by todays pre orders. So scalpers that bought loads to sell on for profit hahahaha morons
Motograter wrote: GW sent out e mails saying the boards and DICE will be back.in production as they know folk were annoyed by todays pre orders. So scalpers that bought loads to sell on for profit hahahaha morons
Nice. It'd be awesome if they did another batch of the Skaven dice but that's probably too much to ask.
Motograter wrote: GW sent out e mails saying the boards and DICE will be back.in production as they know folk were annoyed by todays pre orders. So scalpers that bought loads to sell on for profit hahahaha morons
Motograter wrote: GW sent out e mails saying the boards and DICE will be back.in production as they know folk were annoyed by todays pre orders. So scalpers that bought loads to sell on for profit hahahaha morons
Nice. It'd be awesome if they did another batch of the Skaven dice but that's probably too much to ask.
If they're going to put one set of sold-out-super-quickly dice into production again they may as well put the other sold-out-super-quickly dice out there as well.
That's the problem... fellow gamers looking to make a buck. I added the all in package and saw that it would allow a person to also add a skaven pitch board too. This would give a person two sets.
I did not as I don't need two sets, wasn't buying a gift, and thought of my fellow gamers around the world. However, I'm sure others did so to make money off their fellow gamers.
Last time gw released more pitch sets, skaven sets, etc within the next week. GW is just far more careful about stock on hand, as companies lose when they sit on stock for a long time. I do agree though, by this time I'd assume they would know how popular bb is!
A good thing to note - the only real limited items so far were the forgeworld referees and the faction dice (they are listed as supplies last too). All other items are not and will be released again. Someone said earlier that the winter pitch should be hitting again in April. I'm not sure about that timeframe, but we should see it again, so I wouldn't pay $125 for it on ebay.
Motograter wrote: GW sent out e mails saying the boards and DICE will be back.in production as they know folk were annoyed by todays pre orders. So scalpers that bought loads to sell on for profit hahahaha morons
Nice. It'd be awesome if they did another batch of the Skaven dice but that's probably too much to ask.
If they're going to put one set of sold-out-super-quickly dice into production again they may as well put the other sold-out-super-quickly dice out there as well.
I'm sure it's not hard, but that doesn't mean they'll do it
Also all this stuff we're talking about (dice and pitches) aren't produced in house. Which is why I can understand doing small batches, they aren't "putting them into production", they are going to an external company and ordering another set of 1000 or whatever they order.
But they should just keep doing those small batches until people stop buying them.
... Oh... :-/ they could have done something a little more special there - offered stats for a special squig beast or somesuch! My iPad won't run the app - is there anything special for the human nobility team?
The dice and pitch have moved to temp out of stock and email when available so def8nately looks like a restock is on the way good to see a quick email to anyone subscribed saying would be back in stock would have been nice but yeah nice feth you to the scalpers enjoy your 10 pitches and 40 dice sets
As has been said above the dice and pitch are being restocked (sign up for an email when it happens on the GW site),
as for the rules they usually don't appear until after the official release (not the preorder period), so have a look next week and hopefully they'll show up
For the App-less, are we allowed to share the rosters here?
If not, Human Nobility are sort of Bretonnians. High Elf pricing with average stats but decent skills.
As stated, Savage Orcs are basically Orcs with frenzy on everyone except the Brutes (Black Orcs) who get one less armor and Thick Skull.
I want a Savage Orc team but I also want more differentiation between them and regular Orcs. Like maybe a warpaint rule, or a Big Stabba "secret" weapon.
Seems kind of a missed opportunity to me.
Edit: what about a soutlands goblin team? With spider riders!
Savage Orcs
Everyone loses a point of armor except the Troll.
Lineman get Frenzy and 10k more expensive.
Blitzers get Frenzy and 10k more expensive.
Throwers get Frenzy and Nerves of Steel and lose Sure Hands for the same cost
Brutes gain Thick Skull and stay the same cost (as Black Orcs).
Swamp Troll gains 1 MA and 20k in cost.
No Goblins.
New Star Player Grut Gitgobbla is a St 4 Savage Orc Blitzer with Block, Claw, Frenzy and Juggernaut.
Human Nobility
Retainers have Human Lineman stats and Fend for 70k.
Bodyguards are 0-4, Lineman stats, Block AND Guard for 90k.
Throwers are 0-4, Lineman stats and Pass for 70k.
Princelings are 0-2 Linemen with one more MA and one less AV, Catch, Dodge and Pro for 110k.
Ogres are 0-2 and are Ogres.
New Star Player Heinrich von Duisgart, Human Blitzer stats with Block, Dirty Player and Filthy Rich (gives him unlimited 2+ bribes).
Savage Orcs could be a fun mess but theres nothing too exciting there.
People are horrified by Block and Guard on 4 starting positionals with 2 Ogres. Everything else is so expensive that you're going to be hurting for re rolls and Nuffle forbid you take an early death. 4 Bodyguards and 2 Ogres would leave you with zero re rolls for an 11 man starting roster.
You're looking at elf prices without the safety net of AG 4.
plastictrees wrote: Savage Orcs
Everyone loses a point of armor except the Troll.
Lineman get Frenzy and 10k more expensive.
Blitzers get Frenzy and 10k more expensive.
Throwers get Frenzy and Nerves of Steel and lose Sure Hands for the same cost
Brutes gain Thick Skull and stay the same cost (as Black Orcs).
Swamp Troll gains 1 MA and 20k in cost.
No Goblins.
New Star Player Grut Gitgobbla is a St 4 Savage Orc Blitzer with Block, Claw, Frenzy and Juggernaut.
Human Nobility
Retainers have Human Lineman stats and Fend for 70k.
Bodyguards are 0-4, Lineman stats, Block AND Guard for 90k.
Throwers are 0-4, Lineman stats and Pass for 70k.
Princelings are 0-2 Linemen with one more MA and one less AV, Catch, Dodge and Pro for 110k.
Ogres are 0-2 and are Ogres.
New Star Player Heinrich von Duisgart, Human Blitzer stats with Block, Dirty Player and Filthy Rich (gives him unlimited 2+ bribes).
Savage Orcs could be a fun mess but theres nothing too exciting there.
People are horrified by Block and Guard on 4 starting positionals with 2 Ogres. Everything else is so expensive that you're going to be hurting for re rolls and Nuffle forbid you take an early death. 4 Bodyguards and 2 Ogres would leave you with zero re rolls for an 11 man starting roster.
You're looking at elf prices without the safety net of AG 4.
Exactly. From what I can see with that list you've got a slightly more diverse human team that you will end up paying for in a huge way and as frightening as the prospect of a two-ogre+four blocker lineup might be, nobody is going to be fielding that off the bat, and if they are then they'll end up horrendously fragile in terms of rerolls and ball handling.
All that said.... Is that enough to stop people taking the risk?
I've been rolling it around in my head and there aren't that many ways to play it that don't leave you wide open to failure. Building it as a standard human team is difficult due to the expense of even the linemen, let alone trying to stuff both ogres in there.
Basically, I love it! You can be utterly boned after your first match or with some absolutely incredible luck, you can be flying.
The nobility team till seems pretty messed up to me, this is the first time GW rules have pissed me off, there was nothing wrong with the teams we already know about.
The Khorne team in the online game made me sick in my mouth a little and I had to quit every time I saw Bloodletters and a greater daemon lining up against me.
Having said that.
I do not think any team should start with guard and I think all star players should have loner.
The blitzers are overpowered, I don't think anybody is arguing that; they're very powerful individuals, at the same cost as regular human blitzers. However, due to the costs of the rest of the team, it kind of balances out. One major injury or death early on, regardless of the position affected, is going to seriously mess you up.
Concentrating on the starting skillset of one isolated positional, out of the context of the wider team, is totally pointless.
Plus you're losing movement on them compared to Blitzers, aren't you?
Since all the Blitzers can select Guard as their first upgrade anyway it's not going to make that much difference unites you're only ever playing 1,000 TV friendlies
Based on the numbers, isn't losing a point of MA to gain a skill an even trade?
The bodyguards have lineman stats according to plastictrees' post so MA6
Vorian wrote: Plus you're losing movement on them compared to Blitzers, aren't you?
I'd rather have guard than a point of movement unless you're talking about a catcher/gutter runner/skink/etc. Especially when you're talking about multiple models with guard, it gives you a very resilient line that can really only be broken by a big guy.
Since all the Blitzers can select Guard as their first upgrade anyway it's not going to make that much difference unites you're only ever playing 1,000 TV friendlies
I dunno about you guys, but we rarely play leagues long enough to get lots of upgrades on our teams like that, so having teams that are reasonably balanced at TV 1000 is important to us.
That said, I don't really have the experience to read how good a team is going to be on paper.
THats part of the problem. Blood Bowl is designed as a campaign system, but many people only stay around 1000 TV single season or handful of game tournaments.
Now there are new rules for retireing and buying back old players next season which looks like an interesting way of playing consequently for years, instead of restarting.
I was more interested in higher TV season this time so my group agreed to use the 1100TV + 6 skills as initial setup which we used at a tournament. With the new rules, we maybe don't have to use this tweak next time we decide to play Blood Bowl, but instead buy back old players.
Yup, some teams are great at 1,000 TV, some aren't. The Nobility team seems like it will start better than a normal human team, be a bit bashier long term and lose a bit of the flexibility.
auticus wrote: THats part of the problem. Blood Bowl is designed as a campaign system, but many people only stay around 1000 TV single season or handful of game tournaments.
From my observation the balance doesn't really get better as your team gets upgraded, it might shift around but some teams skill up a lot better than others. I struggled when I got my Lizardmen to higher TV because the Saurus are hard to skill up with their AG1, you end up with lots of upskilled Skinks (that are very injury prone) because trying to make a touch down with a Saurus is something you only ever try when you're in a no-lose situation.
Early TV teams like orcs and dwarves dominate leagues because they are stupid good against the rookie teams.
They fall back as teams progress through multiple seasons.
It doesn't relaly get "balacned", its just that other teams emerge as better as you go on.
Blood Bowl has never been balanced and the designers have said many times since the 90s in various interviews, to include on facebook a couple months ago in the Blood Bowl Community group, that balance is not a design consideration and they intentionally make some teams weaker than others because some people like playing weaker teams and some people like always playing the top busted teams so they have both.
Chaos is an example of a team that will struggle in the first couple seasons, then become dominant as they have enough skill ups.
However if you are always playing low TV seasons, I have found that the same teams will be present over and over again because its easier for them. We are on our eleventh season over the past many years and dwarves have won eight of our ten seasons because everyone always wants to restart otherwise "its not fair". The downside has been dwarves pretty much teabag every other team and you never see much beyond the tradiitonal easy bashy teams.
True, the problem is finding people who want to play several leagues to upskill teams.
Personally I'm not a huge fan of playing high TV games largely because it becomes too much about book keeping and knowing which player has what skills. I guess some people enjoy that but I don't really. The fun of getting a touch down because your opponent didn't realise that the dude with the ball had +1M, Sprint and Sure Feet wears off after a while, and it's around that time I prefer going back to TV1000.
The reason not being because I didn't think it wasn't "fair" but rather because I didn't think it was "fun".
For those complaining about the new teams, I'd just point out that the two teams come with the following notice :
This pack contains new rules which coaches can try out in friendly games, friendly leagues, exhibition matches or one-offs, just for fun. They haven't had the same rigorous testing as the rest of Blood Bowl's rules, so we'd advise that they aren't used in official leagues or tournaments (unless the organisers are feeling particularly anarchic). We encourage players to try them and let us know what they think on the Blood Bowl facebook page.
auticus wrote: It depends on what your definition of balance is.
Early TV teams like orcs and dwarves dominate leagues because they are stupid good against the rookie teams.
They fall back as teams progress through multiple seasons.
Dwarves don't, they excell particularly well at higher TV. As they level up, they all get guard, stand firm, mighty blow, maybe some dodge, diving tackle or frenzy. I dare you face my TV2000 dwarf team with anything (except Chaos).
auticus wrote: It depends on what your definition of balance is.
Early TV teams like orcs and dwarves dominate leagues because they are stupid good against the rookie teams.
They fall back as teams progress through multiple seasons.
Dwarves don't, they excell particularly well at higher TV. As they level up, they all get guard, stand firm, mighty blow, maybe some dodge, diving tackle or frenzy. I dare you face my TV2000 dwarf team with anything (except Chaos).
Agreed, especially with the skills you choose.
Just got my set today, for anyone wishing to update their current figs to the larger bases, you can use the 32mm round base and a 3/32" bit to drill the hole for the balls.
I have found dwarves to be good but not that good at high level. Chaos teams usually dominate once you get up to that point. While the dwarves are good, any team at that TV can compete with them if they have similar TV.
So kind of everyone is good so no one is (except Chaos).
But yes dwarves are easy-mode up until late stages of a league if you can get people that are willing to do more than one or two seasons, which is the challenge.
auticus wrote: I have found dwarves to be good but not that good at high level. Chaos teams usually dominate once you get up to that point. While the dwarves are good, any team at that TV can compete with them if they have similar TV.
So kind of everyone is good so no one is (except Chaos).
But yes dwarves are easy-mode up until late stages of a league if you can get people that are willing to do more than one or two seasons, which is the challenge.
Agreed, the dwarf skills are good but there is nothing you can do about the low movement values, yes you might injure many players, but more often than not a skilled coach with an agility based team will get a good lead on the dwarves before they manage to do the damage.
Chaos always have the advantage at high TV too because they can have mighty blow and Claw and 4 x STR 4 players.
I also find that Dwarves are really overrated on the computer game too, because so many coaches give up early just because they lose a couple of players.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I have always found Chaos dwarves to be more powerfull than their counterparts too !!
plastictrees wrote: Savage Orcs
Everyone loses a point of armor except the Troll.
Lineman get Frenzy and 10k more expensive.
Blitzers get Frenzy and 10k more expensive.
Throwers get Frenzy and Nerves of Steel and lose Sure Hands for the same cost
Brutes gain Thick Skull and stay the same cost (as Black Orcs).
Swamp Troll gains 1 MA and 20k in cost.
No Goblins.
New Star Player Grut Gitgobbla is a St 4 Savage Orc Blitzer with Block, Claw, Frenzy and Juggernaut.
Human Nobility
Retainers have Human Lineman stats and Fend for 70k.
Bodyguards are 0-4, Lineman stats, Block AND Guard for 90k.
Throwers are 0-4, Lineman stats and Pass for 70k.
Princelings are 0-2 Linemen with one more MA and one less AV, Catch, Dodge and Pro for 110k.
Ogres are 0-2 and are Ogres.
New Star Player Heinrich von Duisgart, Human Blitzer stats with Block, Dirty Player and Filthy Rich (gives him unlimited 2+ bribes).
Savage Orcs could be a fun mess but theres nothing too exciting there.
People are horrified by Block and Guard on 4 starting positionals with 2 Ogres. Everything else is so expensive that you're going to be hurting for re rolls and Nuffle forbid you take an early death. 4 Bodyguards and 2 Ogres would leave you with zero re rolls for an 11 man starting roster.
You're looking at elf prices without the safety net of AG 4.
What are the skills available to the new teams? For example are Brutes GS/A? Where GS (General, Strength) are standard, and A (Agility) is available on doubles?
What are the cost of the star players?
I'm super tempted to make a Savage Orc team. I've not read the new rules for Bloodbowl, what all models would be required/recommended for said Savage Orc team?
AduroT wrote: I'm super tempted to make a Savage Orc team. I've not read the new rules for Bloodbowl, what all models would be required/recommended for said Savage Orc team?
You generally need 16-20 models in order to have all of the positionals and a useful amount of linemen. (the gap mostly being about how useful a particular team's linemen are)
For the savage orcs you'll need:
1 troll
4 black orcs
2 throwers
4 blitzers (more being than a lineman)
6-8 linemen (you can have 16 but you'd never want to)
Vorian wrote: They won't have mutations. The skills will more than likely be identical to their normal orc equivalents
They already haven't got identical skills available as normal orc equivalents. The only ones who got identical skills available are blitzers and the troll.
Maybe lets not post guesses in the "news and rumours" forum, it's already hard enough to follow what's actual news and rumours and what's just general discussion
I just googled "savage orcs blood bowl app" and found this reddit thread...
They used Bretonnian artwork for most of the Human Nobles except for the Princeling.
I also found a random facebook post about how someone couldn't find the skill access in the app so maybe there's something weird with the app that skill access isn't obvious.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Did the thread really need to be moved? We've had news only on the previous page and the stuff people are discussing is tangential but still related to new release stuff.
Surely it makes more sense to start a specific general discussion BB thread and keep this one as the news thread? Or just lock this thread if it's too off topic. It's kind of out of place just to dump it here.
Lineman and Brutes only access Block on doubles, which is a big hit IMO. Every player on your team being a two space surf threat is a pretty big deal, but so is every player on your team being easy to frenzy trap.
Wow... So I looked on ebay for the skaven dice and some guy on there is selling them for £40 with it showing as 40 in stock... how do people like that sleep at night?
Do we know if both the dwarf ans skaven dice sets are being reprinted?
anab0lic wrote: Wow... So I looked on ebay for the skaven dice and some guy on there is selling them for £40 with it showing as 40 in stock... how do people like that sleep at night?
Do we know if both the dwarf ans skaven dice sets are being reprinted?
Nah we don't know, at least not as far as I'm aware.
I was lucky enough to get 2 sets of the Skaven dice on release.
I sold the spare set to a mate on talkfantasyfootball for cost+shipping to the UK. Could have been a dick and sell high, but thats not me.
Hey, you want to make a few bucks? Understandable. Mean to say, whos really to blame? Yeah, GW for pulling gak like making stuff "limited" from the get go.
But someone with 40 sets and still selling retardedly high?
I managed to get 2 sets of Dwarf dice, initial plan was to try and trade Skaven dice with it.
Later did same as bound for glory here, sold at cost.
There are quite a few news for Blood Bowl now, I really like the way GW is going:
instead of changing the rules too much, GW now publishes optional add-ons like Orc Savage Team, Human Nobility Team, new Star Players, Gobling & Halflling Referees, Winter Table and Subterranean Table. Looking forward to try these out for a change.
Any comments about these new rules/modifications?
I see very little talk about it, most discussions and podcasts are only about the changes to the core rules.
Lineman and Brutes only access Block on doubles, which is a big hit IMO. Every player on your team being a two space surf threat is a pretty big deal, but so is every player on your team being easy to frenzy trap.
Super new. What are all those abbreviations/acronyms?
Automatically Appended Next Post: (Also yeah, even a notice the thread had been moved would have been nice. Was wondering why it stopped getting bumped on the News and happened across it here by luck.)
Hello all. Are there any rumors on more teams being manufactured for sale with BB? I love that they have invested time and money back in this awesome game and hope the momentum keeps going.
Super new. What are all those abbreviations/acronyms?
Automatically Appended Next Post: (Also yeah, even a notice the thread had been moved would have been nice. Was wondering why it stopped getting bumped on the News and happened across it here by luck.)
G = General S = Strength A = Agility P = Passing
This is how available skills are written in the teams section of the previous Living Rulebooks. Don't remember how it is written now.
ijbrowning wrote: Hello all. Are there any rumors on more teams being manufactured for sale with BB? I love that they have invested time and money back in this awesome game and hope the momentum keeps going.
I've heard rumours that Orc and Human teams are being packaged separately for April, but have found no sources yet. Hopefully we'll have (probably Forge World) booster packs to fill out existing teams soon too. I've seen some great results using Brutes as Black Orcs, but Humans would be impossible to find a good substitute due to their original design.
Super new. What are all those abbreviations/acronyms?
Automatically Appended Next Post: (Also yeah, even a notice the thread had been moved would have been nice. Was wondering why it stopped getting bumped on the News and happened across it here by luck.)
G = General
S = Strength
A = Agility
P = Passing
This is how available skills are written in the teams section of the previous Living Rulebooks. Don't remember how it is written now.
That is the difference between "Standard skill" and "any skill". Standard skill / any skill.
This has fundamental impact on skill selection, team progression, league play and team value.
I am currently making a document based on LRB6 (Living Rulebook 6, previous edition before the new Games Workshop 2016 Blood Bowl edition). The goal of this document is to modify previous rules to match new as well as gather all the new optional rules including the Savage Orc team and Human Nobility team. For this purpose, I needed to know the exact skills available to these teams.
Have anyone joined Blitzmania yet? I've heard that you get free special event cards for joining and turning in game results.
ijbrowning wrote: Hello all. Are there any rumors on more teams being manufactured for sale with BB? I love that they have invested time and money back in this awesome game and hope the momentum keeps going.
They are doing a lot more teams but many of them will be resin from what we've heard.
I would guess the teams from DZ1 would be released maybe every 2 months in plastic sets identical to Dwarves, Skaven, Humans and Orcs. But then maybe DZ2 will be released and that could change the order of which teams are released.
I'd prefer a 12-man team from GW instead of FW because of the price.
DZ2 is rumored to be out in April with a supposed Goblin team. There is no way that GW proper will be able to complete the teams from DZ1 by then. Keep in mind too that it takes about 2 years for a miniature to make it from concepting, through design and into plastic production (resin is a bit faster). Several places, GW has said that they were surprised by the strong response of the Blood Bowl community (and it is evident in the supply problems). They just don't have the resources (sculptors, designers, mold-makers, casters) to produce resin, much less plastic fast enough for the community.
Honestly, it's a great problem for GW to have!
I doubt it HAS to take 2 years for a miniature to go from concept to production, that's probably just what it takes on average to go from the initial idea phase; and I'm sure a lot of that is taken up by long decision making, revisions and viability analysis. If they already have a lot of concepts (which I think they do already for BB) and they think they're on to a winner, I'm sure they can get them in to production much faster.
Just listened to the last BOLS podcast where Benson Green from Mindworm Games goes through how long it takes to make a spincast resin miniature like they do. The process is in excess of 10 months to get everything right.
So he is describing a single miniature, and not a team that has to be uniform but with distinct positional players. A team that is up to GW quality and must work with an injection molding process, and as many models as can fit on a specific size frame.
Bloodbowl game out 4 months ago... I think that they are doing a great job putting out 4 plastic teams in that time. At this rate, GW would complete all 23 teams in under 2 years... which would be phenomenal.
Isn't Mindworm games, like, a handful of people? GW is a company that makes and spends over £100 million a year and they own all their own machines. I'm sure they can get it in to production in a matter of months if they want to (that's not to say they WILL).
I mean hell, even though I don't work in miniature production, my work has all the machines necessary to machine moulds and I'm pretty sure if I could get a digital sculpter to throw together a team then after that I (with the help of the guys at work) could turn it in to a mould ready for production in under a month. One of my coworkers with very little prior experience got a detailed modular car model machined from aluminium in the space of 2 months while working part time on it, about 1 month of that was just him fighting with the CAD which I'm sure an experienced sculptor could probably pump out in half the time.
But the "2 years" estimate I'm sure is largely due having a long concept design and release schedule planning process. What CAN physically be done if there's low hanging fruit and people just throw their effort in to a project full time and the bosses make an effort to not delay the design process is something entirely different.
While Mindworm doesn't have their own artists, as said in the interview, they do their production in house. There will be differences (as noted, Mindworm does spincast resin... GW produces mostly plastics) but I don't think the time scale is too far off.
A 'Eavy Metal painter revealed on his twitter that he has to paint up models over a year ahead of time for product photos and the such. Big production houses like GW do have a lot of resources to throw at a project that is a priority, but they also have a lot of timing issues as well. Tooling at this scale is going to be different than what a few guys can do in a shop after hours (by the way... your work sounds awesome!)
The bigger problem for GW is production scheduling. Giving something a short notice production slot means that something else is going to be going out of stock for a significant period. They have a relatively small number of windows in a given year where their production isn't being dictated by replenishment.
Yeah, I'm almost certain the reason why it's a 2 year cycle is more to do with scheduling and the fact it's better to invest less men hours per week across more projects than it is to invest a lot of man hours per week in less projects. Also there's not a lot of point rushing projects because typically hobbyists are just as likely to buy a product if you release it in 12 months as if you release it in 2 months.
I'm sure a huge amount of time gets spent on revisions in all stages of the process, because, well, that's how most companies I've encountered work Pleb #1 works for a month on a project, boss sees it and asks for revisions, pleb #1 works for another 2 weeks, boss #1 sees it and asks for revision, rinse and repeat a half dozen time before project gets moved in to the next stage which is the speciality of pleb #2, pleb #2 works for a week and then goes back to pleb #1 because something wasn't done right, after that's fixed pleb #2 shows it to boss #2 and it gets asked for revisions..... etc etc until the product finally gets out the door.
When stuff needs to get out the door quickly you get boss #1 and boss #2 in a room with pleb #1 and pleb #2 then pleb #1 and pleb #2 work together and maybe get pleb #3 involved to do some of the more menial tasks to keep things moving and pleb #4 who is more of an expert to reduce the number of revisions and the bosses check in more regularly to make sure things are on track, so you end up investing more man hours in to the project but it takes less days to get stuff out.
But if GW through some crystal ball discovered that could make $50M releasing product XXXX, but that profit would evaporate if they waited... then I'm almost certain they could put a kit in to production in a matter of months from concept to sprues in production.
One of Blood Bowl‘s most notorious and famous players returns today as Morg ‘N’ Thorg comes out of retirement to the cheers and roars of bloodthirsty Blood Bowl fans everywhere.
This bruiser of a player is feared and respected by anyone who knows anything about the glorious game of Blood Bowl. He’s been known to play for a huge range of teams throughout his career (apart from the Undead – he’s not a big fan of those guys).
Jim and Bob, our local Blood Bowl experts had this to say on Morg’s triumphant return:
“It’s great to see the 2nd best Ogre player of all time return to the field.” – Bob
“What’ wrong with the Undead? I find many of them quite agreeable, actually.” – Jim
How do we go from the new plastics and Zug to these?
The Orc at least maintains some of the look of the newer style, but it still looks really dated.
MNT just looks old and kinda bad. I look at things like the new Ogryn from 40k and can't help but feel like this sculpt is about 10 years old and only got put into production because BB came back.
I actually bought Zug because I had hopes for that the coming miniatures would look just as good, but these latest releases are not keeping the same standard. It's really a shame. :/ Mighty Zug was such a success, for me.
I'm stuck on a monthly 20+£ subscription from Forge World now it seems.
Strange to see the focus on ball carrying for the new star players. It is very nice to see they add it as an option along with an empty hand also. Which can give some much needed open-hands or hands-on-ball parts for conversion projects.
Well, Morgn'n'Thorg would actually be an ok ball carrier with both medium speed and agility.
But Zug?!? You would never want Mighty Zug to try get hold of the ball with both Dwarf speed and agility.
Thankfully i never get to spend that much TV on a star player.
I think he looks terrible, and a 30 piece kit ??
I would not have the time to build it if i did like it !
I have to say I do not think FW actually want to have anything to do with BB. If you check the close ups of the unpainted Morg on the FW site they never even bothered to clean it up. The face has Flash the ball has mould lines it is just sloppy.
Also a friend bought Zug at the open day and there was damage to it, he still has not had a replacement so chased it up only for FW to tell him that it is a GW model and they don't deal with the returns.
SeanDrake wrote: I have to say I do not think FW actually want to have anything to do with BB. If you check the close ups of the unpainted Morg on the FW site they never even bothered to clean it up. The face has Flash the ball has mould lines it is just sloppy.
Also a friend bought Zug at the open day and there was damage to it, he still has not had a replacement so chased it up only for FW to tell him that it is a GW model and they don't deal with the returns.
I went into WW last week and the FW Bloodbowl stuff, the two refs, Zug and Varag, were nowhere to be found in the FW store, I asked the chap on the FW counter about them and he said he had no idea where they were.
Eventually I found them lurking on a shelf on the other side of the place at the back of the GW section.
Might be reading too much into it, but it seemed strange.
MNT just looks old and kinda bad. I look at things like the new Ogryn from 40k and can't help but feel like this sculpt is about 10 years old and only got put into production because BB came back.
I just can't agree with you there. I really like this ogre, he's got some great hark-backs to old school incorporated into the design and the face has real character, real 'life' to it. I cannot get how you like the new ogryns better, I greatly disliked them, most especially the oddly smooth CAD effect faces.
MNT just looks old and kinda bad. I look at things like the new Ogryn from 40k and can't help but feel like this sculpt is about 10 years old and only got put into production because BB came back.
I just can't agree with you there. I really like this ogre, he's got some great hark-backs to old school incorporated into the design and the face has real character, real 'life' to it. I cannot get how you like the new ogryns better, I greatly disliked them, most especially the oddly smooth CAD effect faces.
The Ogryn look anatomically viable vs something you know was hand sculpted 10 years ago. Morg just looks dated and while I love throwbacks, this was a big swing and a miss. Just look at the new Slambo for an example of doing throwbacks right. The Ogryn absolutely look better, imo. Curious to see GW's Ogre player that I heard was coming out, because this one is a pass.
His Master's Voice wrote: There a probably better photos of it now, but that's the first one I found in this thread
So much better than Morg. By MILES! Now that I will be buying for sure. That is the modern design direction from BB I am about. Can't wait for that dude to release.
According to reports starting to hit FB, the plastic Ogre will hit retail March 4th (on that date the human team will also be available as a separate box).
BigDaddio wrote: According to reports starting to hit FB, the plastic Ogre will hit retail March 4th (on that date the human team will also be available as a separate box).
Perfect! I haven't gone too far into painting yet, so I can get him up to speed before I hit decal phase! Thanks for the info!
You may be able to build an ogre team with enough of those Ogre boxes. It'll depend on how many options we have on the sprue... can you make six that are different enough.
Then, you'll need to find some weedly thing for the runts.
BigDaddio wrote: According to reports starting to hit FB, the plastic Ogre will hit retail March 4th (on that date the human team will also be available as a separate box).
Oooh, is the price going to be the same as the Skaven and Dwarfs? I didn't buy a full BB set to get the humies to use their torsi for 40k, but if they're as cheap as the other teams, hell yeah.
Anpu-adom wrote: You may be able to build an ogre team with enough of those Ogre boxes. It'll depend on how many options we have on the sprue... can you make six that are different enough.
Single pose, and no options - you will have to convert if you want a team.
Anpu-adom wrote: You may be able to build an ogre team with enough of those Ogre boxes. It'll depend on how many options we have on the sprue... can you make six that are different enough.
Single pose, and no options - you will have to convert if you want a team.
Plus it will cost you £72 just for the ogres, you will then need to buy some grots or something to fill out the rest of the team, quite an expense for a team that performs pretty poorly in game.
Anpu-adom wrote: You may be able to build an ogre team with enough of those Ogre boxes. It'll depend on how many options we have on the sprue... can you make six that are different enough.
Single pose, and no options - you will have to convert if you want a team.
Plus it will cost you £72 just for the ogres, you will then need to buy some grots or something to fill out the rest of the team, quite an expense for a team that performs pretty poorly in game.
It's a true shame that it is single pose without options.
As for cost for a tough team to win with? I've spent the last year building a Sisters of Battle army and an ork walker army in 40k. *shrug* I play/build/paint what I like.
Anpu-adom wrote: You may be able to build an ogre team with enough of those Ogre boxes. It'll depend on how many options we have on the sprue... can you make six that are different enough.
Single pose, and no options - you will have to convert if you want a team.
Plus it will cost you £72 just for the ogres, you will then need to buy some grots or something to fill out the rest of the team, quite an expense for a team that performs pretty poorly in game.
It's a true shame that it is single pose without options.
As for cost for a tough team to win with? I've spent the last year building a Sisters of Battle army and an ork walker army in 40k. *shrug* I play/build/paint what I like.
Thats fair enough man, I have a halfing team I used to use quite a bit, never won many games but it was fun launching flings at the opposition.
My point was that nearly a hundred quid is pretty expensive for one monopose team.
MeanGreenStompa wrote: I just can't agree with you there. I really like this ogre, he's got some great hark-backs to old school incorporated into the design
It's not automatically a good thing. In fact, I think it's the problem here. That, combined with another part of your post...
and the face has real character, real 'life' to it.
...(which I don't really agree with either) It reminds me of the last set of Bloodbowl ogres:
Particularly the unhelmeted one. Even back then, coming after the Ogre Kingdoms debut, they seemed like a backward step. And all of them make me think they were trying to hark back even further, to Bob Olley's ogres:
Now, looking at those, if you want to talk about character... They have obvious exaggerations like the wide, flat jaw and big nose, etc. But to me they look more well-constructed, more natural.
In comparison the new Morg has strangely razor-sharp cheekbones, and nasolabial folds that are all but vacuum-formed along those cheekbones, with barely any hint of a facial muscle impinging on it. (And while we're at it, the nasiolabial fold seems to run below the wing of the nose rather than above it.) The N-L folds being hoiked up so far creates a strange effect so you can't really tell what his expression is: scowling, snarling, grinning or what. Especially since the mouth (with it's fridge-seal labrador-lip) seems to be performing an Elvis sneer, with just about no effect or difference to either side of the face, aside from the fact there's an opening you can see teeth through, at one side.
Nevertheless there seems to be some hints of stretching wrinkles below the lip and on either side of the philtrum (the upper lip groove) which makes... little to no sense, to me.
The brow is flat with another sharp edge. The cranium is practically smooth, with barely a hint of a temporal fossa or temporalis muscle. (the concavity at the side of your head, and the jaw muscle that attaches to it) The eyes are reduced to a set of eyelids like flabby lips. The teeth are an inorganic flat checkerboard with one that happens to stick out as a tusk. (Or like a sore thumb) And so on.
The look, with the bony nasolabial fold and that, is an old look at GW. Not the oldest, but old, and as I say that doesn't make it a good look. If someone's trying to recapture some spark of Bob Olley, it looks like they've been 'interpreting' (to put it generously) and plugging together features without really understanding what Bob was doing, or to be frank, understanding faces in general.
It's not the first time I've seen what looks like GW sculptors trying to crib a properly oldschool sculptor's style for years, and still not get it. So I'm thinking Trish Carden or Aly Morrison. Though something about those mouth-stretches make me think of other sculptors at Forgeworld... Who was it who sculpted their tyranid stuff?
Anpu-adom wrote: You may be able to build an ogre team with enough of those Ogre boxes. It'll depend on how many options we have on the sprue... can you make six that are different enough.
Single pose, and no options - you will have to convert if you want a team.
Oooh, is the price going to be the same as the Skaven and Dwarfs?
Ogre will be £12 (Humans £20 like the others).
Excellent /Burns
Thanks!
I like the Ogre quite a lot as well, he almost has a powerfist going on there. He's really expensive compared to a team, though. Still, I can see a lot of Inq28 characters coming out of this sprue.
Well poop. Just found out the other day that those Savage Orc rules in GW's app aren't actually official/tournament legal. Extra annoying since I just finished converting up a full roster of them on Friday.
I've been mulling over a box of ogryns to convert into Ogres for various teams for a while. Might take the plunge next week. After all, my possible Human Noble team (I only play with friends, wanting to try it out) needs two anyway. No doubt I'll be bagging the actual BB ogre when it comes out too, bringing me up to four. So one for my chaos pact team and another... Hmmm, which other teams have ogres?
Any news on the troll? That's kind of crucial really as GW don't make suitable classic troll models at the moment (River Trolls are fine but I like the classic Stone Troll look far better).
Morg looks poxy; just got myself a classic ogre from Ebay for £6 and in no way tempted to trade up. So far two big hits [Grak & Crumbleberry and Varag] and two big misses [Zug and Morg].
tyrannosaurus wrote: Morg looks poxy; just got myself a classic ogre from Ebay for £6 and in no way tempted to trade up. So far two big hits [Grak & Crumbleberry and Varag] and two big misses [Zug and Morg].
Um... Varag looks like a 90s sculpt.... while Zug looks incredible, fresh and dynamic. How is that a miss?
AduroT wrote: Well poop. Just found out the other day that those Savage Orc rules in GW's app aren't actually official/tournament legal. Extra annoying since I just finished converting up a full roster of them on Friday.
Share it!
I'm just in the process of building the same team using Savage Orcs from the fantasy range. Unfortunately I ran out of 32mm bases so have to wait for another ebay order to complete them. Also ordered a 3rd party troll.
What did you do for the savage black orcs? I'm thinking about using Orruk Brutes without shoulder pads.
About the new star players: I have started painting Zug, waiting for the orc and have pre-ordered Morg. Looking forward to paint and use all of them.
MeanGreenStompa wrote: I just can't agree with you there. I really like this ogre, he's got some great hark-backs to old school incorporated into the design
It's not automatically a good thing. In fact, I think it's the problem here. That, combined with another part of your post...
and the face has real character, real 'life' to it.
...(which I don't really agree with either) It reminds me of the last set of Bloodbowl ogres:
Particularly the unhelmeted one. Even back then, coming after the Ogre Kingdoms debut, they seemed like a backward step. And all of them make me think they were trying to hark back even further, to Bob Olley's ogres:
Now, looking at those, if you want to talk about character... They have obvious exaggerations like the wide, flat jaw and big nose, etc. But to me they look more well-constructed, more natural.
In comparison the new Morg has strangely razor-sharp cheekbones, and nasolabial folds that are all but vacuum-formed along those cheekbones, with barely any hint of a facial muscle impinging on it. (And while we're at it, the nasiolabial fold seems to run below the wing of the nose rather than above it.) The N-L folds being hoiked up so far creates a strange effect so you can't really tell what his expression is: scowling, snarling, grinning or what. Especially since the mouth (with it's fridge-seal labrador-lip) seems to be performing an Elvis sneer, with just about no effect or difference to either side of the face, aside from the fact there's an opening you can see teeth through, at one side.
Nevertheless there seems to be some hints of stretching wrinkles below the lip and on either side of the philtrum (the upper lip groove) which makes... little to no sense, to me.
The brow is flat with another sharp edge. The cranium is practically smooth, with barely a hint of a temporal fossa or temporalis muscle. (the concavity at the side of your head, and the jaw muscle that attaches to it) The eyes are reduced to a set of eyelids like flabby lips. The teeth are an inorganic flat checkerboard with one that happens to stick out as a tusk. (Or like a sore thumb) And so on.
The look, with the bony nasolabial fold and that, is an old look at GW. Not the oldest, but old, and as I say that doesn't make it a good look. If someone's trying to recapture some spark of Bob Olley, it looks like they've been 'interpreting' (to put it generously) and plugging together features without really understanding what Bob was doing, or to be frank, understanding faces in general.
It's not the first time I've seen what looks like GW sculptors trying to crib a properly oldschool sculptor's style for years, and still not get it. So I'm thinking Trish Carden or Aly Morrison. Though something about those mouth-stretches make me think of other sculptors at Forgeworld... Who was it who sculpted their tyranid stuff?
Then it's a straightforward opposing preference on aesthetics.
I've never liked Bob Olley's Ogres, Black Orcs or indeed his servitors, which all that that odd tiki mask over-exaggeration, weird around the teeth (derp overbites ago-go), strange lips and big ears. Also his proportions on the bodies of those ogres is both wildly variable and 'off' to my eye. Now I don't want to character assassinate the bloke, I bloody love his dwarfs and skrunts. His Adeptus Mechanicus with power axe is one of my all-time favorites as well (and he's been knocking it out of the park with Deepwars), ever, but I don't like his goblinoids, ogres or his bb troll, there is a familiar aspect to all of them in the face and it's a look I really don't like.
My benchmark for Ogres is Jes Goodwin, my first Ogre (and what I wish they'd all but copy but increase the size) was this fellow.
That look is ogres to me, that face, that 'spike the bulldog from tom and jerry' proportion that led to these ogres.
Thanks for posting this - LOVE these old ogres (and still have 5, 7, 8, 9, and 14 on my paint-room shelf). Tons of character, with a story behind each one... brings back some memories.
I have multiples of all the Blood Bowl ogres, including the Bob Olley ones. I love them, but couldn't really nail down which I "prefer".
When GW released the Ogre Kingdoms sets a few years back I wasn't hugely sold on the redesign, but they were decent figures. I love the new Ogryns, however. Good variety, and built on the plastic Ogre redesign of the Kingdoms release to bring them back around to the older styles above.
Morg.... Hmmm. I'm not sold on him. I like Ogres to have variety; Bob Olleys' used to rub shoulders with my Jes Goodwins, so Morgs face is simply a different bone structure to me. That's fine. I don't really like the ornamentation, the posing or the really bizarre choice of having the ball held in such a precarious manner. And compared to that plastic BB ogre posted previously, he really doesn't look that great at all.
I spent a lot of time looking at that as a lad as I did the white dwarf pages with them all painted up.
Some of the best Ogres ever made, I just had to collect them all.
feeder wrote: That new Morg is tragic. Nothing really good about him at all. Ball, face, spikes, all fails.
Classic Morg is still a beauty.
Spoiler:
Also, it is a two piece kit I think ( head and Torso ? ), as opposed to the new 30 piece kit.....
Actually I can't see any of your pictures there. Why don't you post them at a place they're actually available? It's not like people have to sign up to dakka to see discussions or photos posted here.
I spent a lot of time looking at that as a lad as I did the white dwarf pages with them all painted up.
Some of the best Ogres ever made, I just had to collect them all.
feeder wrote: That new Morg is tragic. Nothing really good about him at all. Ball, face, spikes, all fails.
Classic Morg is still a beauty.
Spoiler:
Also, it is a two piece kit I think ( head and Torso ? ), as opposed to the new 30 piece kit.....
Three piece. Head, arms/torso, and waist/legs. Piece of pie to put together...
1 Base
1 Head
1 Torso
1 Left Arm
1 Right Arm
1 Legs
1 Left Hand
1 Right Hand
1 Left Boot
1 Right Boot
20 Fiddly as feth spikes because they rip the mold to pieces if they're not cast separately on sprues.
Here's the Battle Masters Ogre I picked up from the loose figures bin at the FGS for $2.50. I only paint to tabletop standard but I think he gets the job done esp. for that price.
privateer4hire wrote: Here's the Battle Masters Ogre I picked up from the loose figures bin at the FGS for $2.50. I only paint to tabletop standard but I think he gets the job done esp. for that price.
I've got about 6 of them laying around including one in my BB painting que . I just finished the Minotaur from Battle Masters to be used as a backup for chaos and burgled rotters.
Back to the ogre release, I saw it listed for $18 USD. Is that going to be available to independent stockists or GW direct only? I probably won't buy one but the guys at the FGS might since he's carrying BB in a big way.
Unless GW does a blood bowl Ogre team in plastic or resin by the time I want my own, I'll be converting. Not sure if I'll start with the Fantasy Ogres or 40k Ogryn.
bound for glory wrote: Any love here for the last ogres GW made? The multi part monsters.
Quite a bit too big, but I have 10-12 of them and I love them.
Anyone else?
I only have 2 of them, but I like them and wanted to get enough for a whole team (especially the one throwing the goblin) but alas it didn't happen. I also like the old school BB ogres from GW, as well as the newest ones (plastic kit, Grak, Morg). Guess I've always associated tongue-in-cheek cartooniness with BB so I don't mind the various sculpting styles.
I don't mind Morg other than the ball and spikes. The face looks to have very sharp edges but I think it's just how they painted it, they painted a very sharp transition on the cheek bones, eyebrows and upper lip which make those features look weirdly sharper than the rest of the face, but I think the bare sculpt actually has softer curves in those areas.
But the odd thing I noticed, the model that's painted up on the FW site doesn't look like the unpainted model, the unpainted model isn't squinting anywhere near as much. The unpainted model also looks incredibly rough.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: The face looks to have very sharp edges but I think it's just how they painted it, they painted a very sharp transition on the cheek bones, eyebrows and upper lip which make those features look weirdly sharper than the rest of the face, but I think the bare sculpt actually has softer curves in those areas.
True enough.
The unpainted model also looks incredibly rough.
Also true.
The skull on his front reminds me of a piano falling on Wile E. Coyote.
Horns aside, it's like someone who'd never seen a skull sculpted one based on hearsay.
Finished him earlier, alongside the other FW mini's so far and a Guardsman for scale.
Looking forward to the Ogre, he looked good from the pics on open day, and with the Human team outside the box I might finally consider filling my Reavers and Marauders to sixteen players each. Still hope those rumoured 'alt' position players show up at some point just for more variety.
Better ogre. This one has a face, not a collection of odd features on it's head. Despite the fact that it's also got a bunch of spikes and armour bits, it looks a lot less cluttered too. They're no so big, concealing, and overwhelming.
Does anyone have any information about some Special Play cards from a Las Vegas event? Tried searching for "Trap Door man" and "Bet the house" without results.
I think they missed their chance with the shoulder pads. They could have done sets with team symbols on them that could be resin add ons like the chapter shoulder pads for marines.
I love that new Ogre! I just hope the Ogre Team (assuming they do one) has this aesthetic and not either of the Forgeworld resin ones (which aren't bad, I just don't like them). I'd love to buy a full set of Ogre players who look like this guy. Shame they aren't making him more posable (extra heads, hands, arms). I'd buy 6 of these if it was easier to make them look different from each other.
The human team look great, the armor is detailed with dents and imperfections which benefit greatly by a darker wash.
They look over the top ultra violent, which isn't matching their medium low bash stats very well. Preferably the blitzer would be the only one to have these gauntlet knives, but instead, the bashiest player on the team only has a single one! And him having just one murder-hand is also just one of two ways to identify him from the linemen, the other being a slighy larger " cock's comb".
This Ogre looks good, but its obviously been designed with the Human team in mind, as par the season 1 book that's the only team he can join.
Think I'll add mine to the Marauders team, as I already have Zug for the Reavers, and Griff will be coming at some point.
edit - actually going on the shared elements with the Human team, really makes me ponder what the Troll will look like as it'll be affiliated with the Orcs. Unless it comes out after the Goblins of course, but the idea of a Troll having the same pad design and armour plates as the Orcs would be rather cool.
Baxx wrote: They look over the top ultra violent, which isn't matching their medium low bash stats very well. Preferably the blitzer would be the only one to have these gauntlet knives, but instead, the bashiest player on the team only has a single one! And him having just one murder-hand is also just one of two ways to identify him from the linemen, the other being a slighy larger " cock's comb".
For whatever reason both the Orcs and Humans have these stupid large fist spikes, to the point they couldn't even pick up a ball if they tried. The Skaven, Dwarfs and even the new plastic Ogre are much more reasonable, so I wonder if there was a shift in attitude from the GW designers part way through (maybe someone pointed out that BB players only sometimes kill each other, not ALWAYS kill each other ).
Baxx wrote: They look over the top ultra violent, which isn't matching their medium low bash stats very well. Preferably the blitzer would be the only one to have these gauntlet knives, but instead, the bashiest player on the team only has a single one! And him having just one murder-hand is also just one of two ways to identify him from the linemen, the other being a slighy larger " cock's comb".
For whatever reason both the Orcs and Humans have these stupid large fist spikes, to the point they couldn't even pick up a ball if they tried. The Skaven, Dwarfs and even the new plastic Ogre are much more reasonable, so I wonder if there was a shift in attitude from the GW designers part way through (maybe someone pointed out that BB players only sometimes kill each other, not ALWAYS kill each other ).
I almost wonder if the huge spiked gauntlets are just a nod to the rules. The average human player, with no one around him, only successfully picks up an unattended ball two-thirds of the time--maybe due to the knuckledusters!
Easy to just trim them down to knuckledusters if you don't like the look.
They are great sculpts. Making the heads easy to replace with FW or whatever parts has more value than shoulderpads IMO.
The helmets are a good compromise on a sporty look while minimising the painting difficulty.
That looks like a fun card indeed! You could end up with 12 players and if you already have an Ogre, you'll have 2! Combined with another card which lets you take a player from reserves into the pitch, you could actually end up with 13 players on the pitch haha.
What I don't like about the Blitzmania cards, at least the ones I got, is that they have a very different tone or shine on the back, so they are easily identified when mixing with the core deck.
I was looking for the kind of plastic card sleeves with full cover on the back, but you'll hardly even find clear plastic sleeves for that weird size of cards (75mm x 110mm).
Another Blitzmania card seemed really lackluster, the one which might give you an extra re-roll by rolling a D6, and if you failed, you could try again... for 100k per card, that's worse than just buying an Extra Team Training re-roll instead.
The red ones so far seemed alright for color matching, but the greens were definitely a bit brighter shade of green. Otherwise on cards I don't know and haven't read the league rules yet (but really should since one is starting really soon) so I've only done the free 1-3 cards per game. Have enjoyed their random shenanigans so far.
What's your take on the new stuff for Human Nobility and Savage Orc teams. Would Human Nobility have access to same star players as standard Humans? Savage Orcs have access to same star players as standard Orcs?
Would Grut Gitgobbla and Waaagh! Drummer be available to Orcs as well as Savage Orcs? Any other teams?
Would Heinrich von Duisgart and Master of Ballistics be available to Humans as well as Human Nobility? Any other teams?
The special balls are definitely in there. You declare you're using one when kicking off and which player is kicking. If you roll doubles on the kick off table he's ejected like he got caught committing a foul. The options are an extra spiky ball that any team can use, won't bounce and might injure you if you fail to grab it. One legged squig that Orcs can use, might escape from someone holding it at the end of a turn, and if no one is holding it it will bounce several times. Warpstone censer for the Skaven, which can cause some random temporary mutations if you miss a grab. Stone ball for Dwarves, won't bounce, harder to throw far, might injure if you fail to catch or if it lands on a knocked down player.
AduroT wrote: Well the Savage Orcs and Human Nobility are not legal teams to start with so really whatever your opponents will let you play.
Talking about legal in a game where players bring chainsaws into the pitch... what harm could a few analphabetic orcs do in comparison?
It's just that they haven't been tested in the community yet... which is the purpose of releasing the rules. They are 'playtest' teams, and a lot of events aren't going to allow them. Cheating is a mechanic in Malifux... that doesn't mean that you can take an illegal list to an event.
Communicate... communicate with event organizers. Encourage event organizers to communicate with the community.
For the record, I'd probably be ok with Feral Orks... the Nobility team is Baaa-rooo-ken!
Looks like the special balls are pretty much in line with expectations… though I reckon the Skaven/warpstone one would be more interesting if handling it gave the player access to the M list of skills, but you roll an injury every time the player mutates.
Doesn't Skaven already have access to mutations? If so, then giving possible mutation to a player would only be a bonus to any non-mutation opposite teams of Skaven.
It's a temporary mutation, and I don't know about the ones from the league rules as I've not read those yet, but these were mostly all bad mutations. One causes a Knockdown with a +1 to the resulting armor roll, one gives you No Hands, one Bone Head, one -2 move but also Thick Skull, one Foul Appearance (don't know what that does off hand), and lastly one gives +1 armor.
I think GW forgot that they flipped the random events and mischellaneous mayhem decks (Mischellaneous mayhem is the deck that should be 200k or 4 points per card).
I've actually used a 4th variant. Use the rules exactly as in the rule book or death zone 1, but add a limitation of maximum 1 card per deck. This prevents a power rush were both players just draw all their cards from the most valuable deck. Instead, you get to draw and keep cards from different decks, increasing variety.
If you're elligeble to draw more cards than there are decks, then you can have an additional card from a deck you've already drawn from.
Quite a lot of additional rules to keep track of now, various pdfs, teams, side releases, erratas, limited releases, white dwarf rules and so forth.
I got a collection of all new Blood Bowl rules merged into the previous LRB6 if anyone is interested.
Here is the Ogre next to the new Morg and a new Human lineman.
Here is the new Ogre next to a 3rd edition Morg and a 5th edition Ogre. Surprisingly, if the 5th edition Ogre was standing up straight, it would be taller than the new Ogre. I did not really expect that. Not surprisingly, the new Ogre is a little bit bigger than the 3rd edition Morg, but not significantly bigger.
And finally the shot that everyone always seems to ask for, the new Ogre next to a 3rd edition lineman
