I dont think traditionally the Locust got MASC off hand, Ill have to look. Be even funnier if it has the failure rate of ultra ac5s and all of a sudden your super fast mech has its legs locked up.
I'm reminded of the overly complex and completely ridiculous "mech running on pavement skidding" rules from the battletech tabletop game. It actually does make your mech slide out of control across the table taking damage all the way. There's even rules for how much damage things take if you run into something. Mech bowling anyone?
It isnt really overly complex, its just not dumbed down to 40k rules level. Makes a lot of sense too. Plus it has rules reflecting pilots getting knocked out, not being able to see clearly due to high heat, taking enough damage to knock the mech flat over and having to get up again. Theres a good deal of stuff that should be implemented into MWO. Want to run at high heat, fine be prepared for blurry vision due to the heat. Step into a barrage of weapons, depending on your skill level you fall over.
I do hope eventually they bring in punching, kicking and death from above attacks along with penalties for slamming into the side of a mountain at full speed.
You want complex, go play the last edition of Ultimate Warzone, you actually had blast shadows and realistic ballistics. You shoot a grenade over the building, thankfully its tall enough that if you are close to the backside of the building the shooter cant get an angle of fire to have the round land close enough to the target to do anything and no it cant scatter back. Great game, loved the in depth rules.
I was referring to the mech skidding rules in particular. They always just seemed too much additional detail for what they were trying to represent (especially because they only apply on pavement and not stone or any other flat smooth surface they might realistically apply on).
I very much enjoy me some Battletech, although to be fair I haven't played all that much of it. Ultimate Warzone sounds like something I might enjoy. I actually have a bunch of Phoenix Command stuff that I've always wanted to run someday, although my local gaming group has got wind of that fact and look at me with suspicion every time I bring the subject up.
I'm still looking for the "holy grail" of systems, one that actually steps up to the plate and tackles explosions in enclosed spaces. I don't want my grenade to still have exactly the same blast radius and kill probability in a building with a 10 foot roof that it does in an open field. Not even Phoenix Command took on that one...
I don't suppose you've ever tried the Rifts system? Haven't played it much myself, but I believe it has rules for everything including Mecha combat. Highly detailed rules. It may have explosion rules that work for you.
@ erick99- You can't leave us hanging like that! How'd it play? Have any video footage?
Ultimate Warzone was the perfect miniture game. Nice and detailed, guys could do their jobs(a missile launcher dude in an infantry squad could shoot his launcher at a vehicle while the rest of the squad shot at other infantry). It unfortunately got hit with a triple whammy. 1st Edition did great saleswise in the mid 90s, then the company that owned the company that ran the game went bankrupt. I forget 2nds issue but it was a really good game but something not entirely its fault happened. Ultimate was 3rd edition. A guy bought the rights, published a huge tome of rules with all the units in it, started hiring artists to revise models and was going good. Retailers didnt want to risk it so he didnt get many sales there. Thom never got big enough to where he could feasibly move the company out of his garage and I heard he had a few very stressful life issues followed by a heart attack and Fantasy Flight got the license back. Prodos is making Warzone Resurection now with all new models and apparently a huge financial backing, before they did a kickstarter and the KS itself was wildly successful. So we will see how it compares once the rules come out in the big book. The models overall are amazing and keep alot of the original flavor and go for true scale over heroic scale.
Battletech- So, when are the clans coming out. I have been running my red Sword of Light mechs for awhile now, ready for Ghost Bear colors.
Battletech- So, when are the clans coming out. I have been running my red Sword of Light mechs for awhile now, ready for Ghost Bear colors.
Supposedly 1 year from now. They'll likely do another four mech pack like Project Phoenix. My front runners for the clan mech pack are Cougar, Shadow Cat, Cauldron-Bron, Daishi, Grizzly, and Kodiak. We all know the Madcat/Timberwolf will come but I actually wouldn't be shocked to find it made available as a separate release event.
Also you can already use Ghost Bear colors. All my mechs are already black blue and white
Ew, Clans. Vatborn hipsters. Play one of the normal units! District Regular Forces ftw!
Blurry vision in high heat would be amazing, by the way. I'd love some more immersion in general - such as additional fans whirring into action once temperature in the cockpit rises above a certain level etc...
Lynata wrote: Ew, Clans. Vatborn hipsters. Play one of the normal units! District Regular Forces ftw!
Freeborn scum!
But nah. I'm holding out for Ghost Bear Dominion rather than Clan Ghost Bear... Its gnna be a few years.
Blurry vision in high heat would be amazing, by the way. I'd love some more immersion in general - such as additional fans whirring into action once temperature in the cockpit rises above a certain level etc...
I loved in MW4 how my hud would start flickering as the mech got hotter. It really brought things to life. IMO the things MWO most desperately needs are in no order;
-The removal of Ghost Heat because as lackluster as the current heat system is Ghost Heat doesn't fix it.
-Numerous mechs need hit box fixes especially the Orion, Awesome, and the Dragon. Every mech barring a few (Centurion, Stalker, Atlas) could use some hit box tweaks.
-New game modes... please... pretty please?
People complain a lot of the forums but the game isn't in a terrible state. The worst part of it, 100% weapon accuracy can be rendered not that important if the hit boxes were restructured to account for it on certain mechs.
Yeah. There's a lot of stuff that I'd like to be added (more cockpit interaction, pilot customisation, tanks and infantry to stomp upon, bases and turrets in a siege game mode, COMMUNITY WARFARE), or stuff that is in the game that imho should be changed (ECM, "bulk-firing" missiles, greater delay in missile door opening/closing, price increase for Endo-Steel, using artillery/airstrikes via Battlegrid, ...), but ultimately I still find it to be an amazingly fun thing to play.
I think a lot of people are just very entitled nowadays - you get to see these crowds in just about every game that has a place where gamers can exchange opinions. It's probably a social phenomenon about how perceptions can change in a crowd - almost reminds me of Waldorf & Statler.
LordofHats wrote:The removal of Ghost Heat because as lackluster as the current heat system is Ghost Heat doesn't fix it.
I dunno - if it doesn't fix it, why are people complaining about it, given that there's no reason to do so unless they were afflicted?
One could even rationalise it somehow by coming up with some BS excuse about how this additional heat is generated because the basic design of the 'Mech was never intended to boat something. There's actually rules and fluff for penalties for extensive custom jobs in BT.
"To reflect these factors when using the Customization rules found in Strategic Operations (if you don't have that rulebook, it has the definitive rules for repairs and modifications of one's machines, so you should grab it), it is a simple matter to either restrict the players to lower-rated NPCs techs/engineers, or add penalty modifiers to their modification rolls to reflect the lesser quality parts and tools they should have available in the hardscrabble days of the late Succession Wars. When they start realizing that trying to make their custom PPC boat in 3039 carries with it the risk of costing millions of C-bills in ruined structure AND PPCs (to say nothing for the potential of then driving a glitchy, unbalanced, heat-spiking death trap they made for themselves), they might think twice about tinkering." - Herbert Beas, BT Line Developer
That being said, I still think a better solution would be to place some greater limits on customisation, such as assigning a sort of "hardpoint size" to weapon slots. No, sir, you won't be able to cram a Gauss Rifle below the Cat's cockpit just because you ripped out a Machine Gun.
Also, I just found out that some of the Japanese Battletech rulebooks were illustrated by Kenichi Sonada. Holy gak.
Lynata wrote: I dunno - if it doesn't fix it, why are people complaining about it, given that there's no reason to do so unless they were afflicted?
Because it unfairly gimps energy weapons. If they want to stop the alpha meta the solution was to increase heat dissipation but lower the heat cap but instead they added ghost heat which really only effects the AC2 so now we have the Auto-Canon meta.
Well, the thing that people were complaining about was PPC- and Laserboats. Energy weapons are generally lighter than ballistics, so they are much easier to field en-masse. Does anyone really moan about ACs being too good right now? Ultimately, energy weapons aren't gimped as long as you don't boat them.
Tweaking heat cap and dissipation is an interesting thought, though I think that whilst it would have the intended effect on boats, "normal" loadouts would be granted a much higher rate of fire as there would be no "cool down periods" anymore as you have them right now. Also, the Flamer would have to be re-evaluated yet again. There's a ton of hard-to-gauge consequences attached to such changes.
On a sidenote, Dev Q&A #49 just went up, and they talk about new game modes a bit:
"Attack & Defend will become a critical component of CW when planetary occupation comes into play. Skirmish is more catered to the competitive crowd that will allow them to set up their own rulesets (from what’s currently available) and choose who they play against. Skirmish can be related to private matches where you’re playing game modes in a manner not in line with regular public gameplay rules and mechanic." - Paul
"Timing wise, we are done with basic functionality and could turn it on anytime. To clarify Deathmatch, we are only supporting 1 v 1 Deathmatch, which is technically TDM from our POV. Down the road we can examine expanding Deathmatch to include more players. That being said, we are waiting for some more features to come on line before releasing it." - Bryan
Lynata wrote: Well, the thing that people were complaining about was PPC- and Laserboats. Energy weapons are generally lighter than ballistics, so they are much easier to field en-masse. Does anyone really moan about ACs being too good right now? Ultimately, energy weapons aren't gimped as long as you don't boat them.
I don't think its as much an issue as being to good as it is bland. Energy boating got hit (and why people complain about boating I'll never know) and while you can still do it and do well its become a pain in the butt. PPC's weren't even what people hated they hated jump snipers. Most builds now center around packing as much auto cannon as you can with some lasers as a backup and streaks as a counter to lights.
Tweaking heat cap and dissipation is an interesting thought, though I think that whilst it would have the intended effect on boats, "normal" loadouts would be granted a much higher rate of fire as there would be no "cool down periods" anymore as you have them right now.
The goal would be that firing too many weapons at once would push you to overheat but a higher dissipation would maintain reasonable fire rates for weapons.
LordofHats wrote:I don't think its as much an issue as being to good as it is bland. Energy boating got hit (and why people complain about boating I'll never know) and while you can still do it and do well its become a pain in the butt. PPC's weren't even what people hated they hated jump snipers.
Both, actually - Jump-Sniping was just hated even more because when they overheat they'd just fall back into cover, whereas on the free range they'd become vulnerable to your guns.
As for the "why" ... I take it you've never been one-shot by a 4PPC-build presenting you with 40 damage in a single torso location? It's probably not as much of a problem for Assaults, but in a Light or even a Medium I can assure you it can be a bit frustrating to get taken out of action like this just for peeking around a corner. Direct damage weapons are always a bit more tricky in this regard as opposed to hitscan (lasers) because they put all their hurt on a single component, so when someone boats a lot of PPCs or Gauss Rifles, this is a far more destructive experience, as the damage you incur won't be spread across your 'Mech but is focused on a single spot.
I can only say that the changes have made the game more fun to me again.
LordofHats wrote:The goal would be that firing too many weapons at once would push you to overheat but a higher dissipation would maintain reasonable fire rates for weapons.
Sure, but those "reasonable rates" would still result in a lot more damage being dished out than now. DPS would increase across the board and make for an overall deadlier game - heat-intensive Alphas would be penalised, but you'd also have shorter matches.
Finally got around to the Battlemaster (almost done mastering the Hawks). The hitbox is much better than I initially thought. A real beast in firepower but I hate the narrow torso turn. I'm gonna slug it up to basic x2 with the hopes that it'll work much better then.
Lynata wrote: Crimson Strait, I typed "Hey Hats o/" in chat at the start of the round. No problem, though - figured you probably just forgot my character's name.
Oh, and I stumbled over this gem - 6xAC2 Jagermech, piloted by a rather crazy British (or at least British-sounding) lad:
Rather fun to watch - he really goes into Orky mode every time he shoots If you're impatient, the action starts at around the 3rd minute.
I love how on/off the switch is. He flips back and forth instantly good laugh from that
lol the 6x AC2 Dakka-Jager is pretty much an actual tabletop design if I recall correctly. Mech was kind of meant to shoot down aircraft, but I would imagine that it would put a serious hurting on light harassing units if it can get a clear field of fire.
dementedwombat wrote: lol the 6x AC2 Dakka-Jager is pretty much an actual tabletop design if I recall correctly. Mech was kind of meant to shoot down aircraft, but I would imagine that it would put a serious hurting on light harassing units if it can get a clear field of fire.
I was instantly curious, and found that the truth is far more horrifying.
From Sarna.net-
JM7-G
This variant utilizes twin Rotary Autocannon/2s and LB-X Autocannon/2s along with a pair of ER Medium Lasers. BV (2.0) = 1,278[13]
Maximum rate of fire in a game turn would be the equivalent of 14 AC 2s.
At that point, I think you'd overheat just from thinking about hitting the trigger.
wow. I know people really hate the Jager in the tabletop because AC2s do not have enough damage potential to get at heavy targets, even if they do mount a lot of them, so it fits the awkward position of being a heavy mech that is trying to counter light mechs (since most battletech games don't use aircraft it doesn't have a niche).
I got one just because it looked like fun. It is fairly effective. On average in PUG groups where I dont get screwed over by my team I can get 250-350 damage points. I tend to run out of ammo unfortunately.
I think the main problem in the tabletop is that you really have no guarantee of all your weapons hitting in the same place (before someone calls me on that, yes you can aim for specific parts of the enemy mech, but you need advanced equipment to do it)
Having 4 body parts take 2 damage each is rather less impressive than one body part taking 8 damage.
That's really all you need to make the mech work, some way to concentrate the firepower. MWO provides that. If that doesn't happen it just turns into a really bad sandblaster (that's actually a tabletop term for a loadout that leaves the opponent with no armor left in any location, but still fully functional).
Weapons were never the Jagermech's problem- it was armor that stopped it from being useful on the tabletop. We're talking about a mech that comes equipped with less armor than a Hunchback, despite being 15 tons heavier.
With tonnage being one of the quick ways forces are chosen, new players usually get a very bad taste of Jager when it explodes quicker than their Medium mechs.
Deathshead420 wrote:...J/K looks good imo, i wonder what the gravity will be like.
Yeah, that's what I'm wondering, too. I did not notice much in terms of physics on the other maps - wonder if the engine is capable of that.
Technically, it shouldn't affect just the 'Mechs, but also ballistics. But I'll rather not set my expectations too high. At least I can expect an interesting looking map that is very different from the others.
Finished my catapult with two gauss rifles and a downer for CQB, thinking about making a light mech build next, maybe raven with 2x ultra ACs and other things, or a locust. Any ideas?
They made gravity normal since if they changed it, it would undermine all the work they had done to fix hit reg (rubbish anyway) and speed fixes. Their is a thread about shadows working something like water since their isn't any direct light from the star too, but that might not happen ether since this rock also has an atmosphere despite its size. A very, very interesting place, scientifically speaking.
Hit Reg should be a function of the bounding boxes of the target more than the projectile, I imagine. All gravity changing would do would be change a single variable of the parabolic arc the projectile follows.
Not sure how speed would be affected though. It would affect Jump Jets, though.
And in a Vacuum, there's nothing for Heat to dissipate to- meaning heat would drain slower.
Anvildude wrote: Hit Reg should be a function of the bounding boxes of the target more than the projectile, I imagine. All gravity changing would do would be change a single variable of the parabolic arc the projectile follows.
Not sure how speed would be affected though. It would affect Jump Jets, though.
And in a Vacuum, there's nothing for Heat to dissipate to- meaning heat would drain slower.
Was going to say, are they keepiing with space physics that without any direct light its pitch black? Wondering about the heat thing, it should make things interesting. Be neat if armor breaches have the potential to cause further damage because of vacuum. Map looks great so far.
I want to fight on a water world now. Bring on underwater combat!
Here's my catapult loadout, any extra info just ask
2x gauss rifles (1 in each side-torso)
2 x flamers (1 in each arm)
Ferro-fiborous
Endo-steel
BAP
CASE for the gauss
Module:
the scope thing
So far it's working nice, the gauss rifles deal a heavy punch and if they don't retreat after the first hits from them and try to charge me thinking I'd lack good CQB weapons, they get burnt with my flamers, now their running hot, barely able to return fire and getting beaten with gauss shots, if they make the mistake of trying to run away their backs are open for my gauss rifles. Fits me perfectly I use to role with the shotgun and sniper in halo. Other then that, I'm an FRR guy, what about you guys?
The clans on the forums would be a logical guess. That is, jade falcon, ghost bear, wolf and smoke jaguar. They definitely make up the majority of clan lovers.
I'd say project phoenix is a strong indicator that they are gearing up to roll out clans. They put out 16 variants simultaneously. All they need to do is do it again for a Clan mech of each class.
Well they will need 16 complete mechs. Clans do not have variants, they are omni-mechs. Having only 4 clan mech chassis available at the start would be boring for clan players.
My question is will they allow second characters for accounts for clan players. It would make zero sense afterall for a clan player to have an IS thunderbolt or jenner in their mech bay.
Col. Dash wrote: Well they will need 16 complete mechs. Clans do not have variants, they are omni-mechs. Having only 4 clan mech chassis available at the start would be boring for clan players.
My question is will they allow second characters for accounts for clan players. It would make zero sense afterall for a clan player to have an IS thunderbolt or jenner in their mech bay.
I would expect to need to purchase variant configurations. Otherwise, MWO's mastery system would preclude clan pilots rising above basic. Rolling out 4 Omnis and 3 configurations each would start with the same number the IS got.
Besides, you've got to leave room for progression and interests in this kind of model. If the next thing to look forward to after release is a Phoenix Hawk IIC, or some other solahma bandit hunting machines, no one is going to be excited. I would be stunned if all 16 Omnis dropped at once.
I think they should have 8, no variants. And clan mechs shouldn't have hardpoints, but their engine and all other hardware shouldnt be able to be taken out, and taking out a weapon destroys it, also generally just have lots of tonnage, armour and stuff, also some stuff should be faction exclusive.
The Dark Apostle wrote: Not allowing players to use clan tech would be a basics Fu to clan player and is the typical mantra of IS people, it'd be easy to balance.
I'd love to see clan tech but saying it's easy to balance is silly, it isn't. No need to be a dick about it.
Weren't they talking about having only 10 Clanners to 3 IS Lances? That lack of two Mechs would probably be worth a few ER Small Lasers and Streak SRM 6s.
Of course they won't be sticking to lore and having them be like that. But have the things I've described and having the price be a lot more than current mechs say 3x then what the current weight class average is. Having penalties for changing the loadout and adding weapons, have the machine parts be unchangeable. But having the armour, structure and heat sinks be equivalent of the upgraded ones I.e. Ferro, endo, double heat sinks. That's more then enough to balance them
Price differences are immaterial and of no consequence for the meta. If you can invest more c-bills to gain an advantage, then it will become a standard. Example: look what happened to DHS. Limiting such advantages to a single faction is just bad design as it's just a matter of time until the majority on the advantaged side will have it, granting them easier wins. So, it would have to be curbed by other balancing factors.
There's a number of routes one could take here, from salvaging Clan-tech to smaller Clan companies to introducing ghost heat for changed loadouts on OmniMechs, just to name a few off the top of my head. But for the time being, we can only speculate. It's waaay to early to have a real debate.
Salvage is definitely something I'd like to see. I'd love it if, when I blew up a Side Torso without destroying the arm attached, the arm's equipment would be credited to me as salvage. Or if Legging a Mech gave access to the engine.
Frankly limiting clan tech would just be stupid. I know it makes in universe sense but in universe sense should be secondary to game play balance. Limiting player accounts to factions would earn money but it would piss off the majority of the player base who don't give a gak about the lore. The only really sensible way to handle the introduction is to just put it out there and force the lore to take a back seat to the game.
Clan tech could simply be part of the natural progression for players (like DHS). There's no need to complicate it at all.
Lynata wrote: Price differences are immaterial and of no consequence for the meta. If you can invest more c-bills to gain an advantage, then it will become a standard. Example: look what happened to DHS.
Limiting such advantages to a single faction is just bad design as it's just a matter of time until the majority on the advantaged side will have it, granting them easier wins. So, it would have to be curbed by other balancing factors.
There's a number of routes one could take here, from salvaging Clan-tech to smaller Clan companies to introducing ghost heat for changed loadouts on OmniMechs, just to name a few off the top of my head. But for the time being, we can only speculate. It's waaay to early to have a real debate.
Do you not see, the price addition is equal to paying for the upgraded armour and such, and the lack of hardpoints is made up by the fact that thei would be penalties for tempering with it
I'd always favour an approach that tries to walk the road between gameplay balance and background faithfulness - and surely it's not impossible in this case, too. Clantech being salvaged and redeployed by Inner Sphere forces is canon, it just wasn't done often because it was costly and involved a lot of research and reverse-engineering. However, the player characters are already exceptional, starting with the fact that we are even able to have our engines switched, or upgrade to Endo-Steel and DHS. That's far from what would be considered normal in an era where 'Mechs would walk into battle with existing damage simply because your techs lack the know-how and resources to repair its arcane machinery. It's not quite as bad as in 40k (especially after the discovery of the Helm memory core), but it's close enough.
I'm not sure I'd want to see it as part of a natural progression (or if so, then it should take quite a while, similar to modules), but it really depends on how they implement the Clans. If they do a 12 vs 10 and manage to create a balance this way, then I don't have a problem with it taking months to get a single Clan weapon. In fact, in that case it must take long, lest the IS runs the risk of having an unhealthy advantage, even if you make Clan engines etc remain exclusive.
One option could also be to limit Clan weapons to a specific number. Maybe even have you need to unlock slots with GXP modules - one module lets you slot one Clan weapon?
I still like the idea of having to salvage Clan tech by playing matches and shooting off components, though. Or maybe it could also be done via loyalty points ... all roads lead to Terra.
Do you not see, the price addition is equal to paying for the upgraded armour and such, and the lack of hardpoints is made up by the fact that thei would be penalties for tempering with it
There are no "upgraded weapons", though, so what does your price difference mean there?
And what "penalties" are you referring to exactly? And how would that make the 'Mechs balanced in their standard configuration?
Do you not see, the price addition is equal to paying for the upgraded armour and such, and the lack of hardpoints is made up by the fact that thei would be penalties for tempering with it
There are no "upgraded weapons", though, so what does your price difference mean there?
And what "penalties" are you referring to exactly? And how would that make the 'Mechs balanced in their standard configuration?
ehh, I didn't say weapon up[grades so ill regard that as a misread or typo, I've already mentioned penalties in my earlier post, having weapons destroyed when un-equipping them and unable to move hardware like engines or armour
The Dark Apostle wrote: Not allowing players to use clan tech would be a basics Fu to clan player and is the typical mantra of IS people, it'd be easy to balance.
I'd rather have clanners with hurt feelings then a game that is unplayable as IS, you just don't realise just how much better clan tech is do you?
It's only so much better when you stick to a hardbound lore based implementation and the obvious answer to the problem is to ignore lore and put game play first.
Or everyone can just sit behind their computer monitors crying about whose more screwed.
If you put gameplay first though, then Clan stuff, will have to have the same stats as its IS equivalent, making differentitating it pointless.
If the devs really want to give us clan tech, then I vote we wait until after Tukayyid which is 4? years at the earliest? That way they will at least have plenty of time to try and balance it, that is why I suggested we get to pilfer Comstar's armoury instead.
The Dark Apostle wrote:ehh, I didn't say weapon up[grades so ill regard that as a misread or typo, I've already mentioned penalties in my earlier post, having weapons destroyed when un-equipping them and unable to move hardware like engines or armour
But Clan-tech includes weapons, so you'll have to address this factor, too. And Clan weapons being destroyed when un-equipping them? That's just an inconsequential money-sink, and one that doesn't even function as well as R&R did in regards to Artemis ammunition. When was the last time you reconfigured your entire 'Mech? I for one always stick to one loadout that I've prepped in smurfy's, so if I had a Clan-Mech and tweak it to optimum settings, I'd not feel constrained by your one-time c-bill fee at all. It'd become as default as DHS (which, coincidentally, also get destroyed if you pull it out of your 'Mech).
When was the last time you reconfigured your entire 'Mech?
That's you though, I have a clan mate (you have played with him) JimmyBeaver that is the exact opposite of this. He (drives me nutz) changes his mech's after every battle, he would be screwed if they charged him to strip his gear every round.
Of course they won't stick to lore on clan mechs, what saying is a good way to implement them appearing powerful but keeping balance. Just think of it as if they come with the upgrades pre-added but a much bigger price and everything else. If you guys want I can give a much more detailed description.
Also I read about another way of balancing it is having your earnings getting lowered if you break the clan laws, like legging someone or shooting the back.
Deathshead420 wrote:That's you though, I have a clan mate (you have played with him) JimmyBeaver that is the exact opposite of this. He (drives me nutz) changes his mech's after every battle, he would be screwed if they charged him to strip his gear every round.
Isn't that even worse, then? If the system "screws" with people depending on how they play the game?
The Dark Apostle wrote:If you guys want I can give a much more detailed description.
It would certainly help with the discussion, if you really want to have one. Given that weapons don't have an upgrade available for IS players, I'm certainly interested what you would to there.
At least I'm assuming that this is what people would care more about than pre-installed Ferro-Fibrous or whatever.
I also wouldn't say that they "surely" won't stick to the canon just yet. Not as long as they've actually showed us what they have in mind. As I said, there's a lot of ways to tackle this. Some are just more complicated or more difficult to balance than others.
The Dark Apostle wrote:Also I read about another way of balancing it is having your earnings getting lowered if you break the clan laws, like legging someone or shooting the back.
That's not balancing if the faction still walks off the battlefield with an easier win, even if this is just an option they may avail of. It would breed a caste (hah!) of privileged gamers who don't give a frak about their c-bill earnings, and thus end up with a superior 'Mech but without those limitations you intend to make it fair. They might even simply consider the c-bill loss a "necessary winning fee", like it was with Artemis ammunition back when R&R was still active. The remainder will whine and bitch on the forums about how it's impossible for them to fight Lights now.
And that's before you consider the jokers who might shoot an enemy's leg orange, just to troll one of their teammates with the chance to accidentally leg the opponent. Or that some IS pilots would start taking the armour off their back location to reinforce the front, and other such shenanigans.
I really don't want to sound like a Dissenting Davion, but with the gaming industry, you always have to account for the worst possible scenario when it comes to your players. People will seek ways to take advantage of any kind of system, so you need to account for any of your ideas being misused just because it's possible. And players can be very creative when it comes to that.
For clans they need to use honor points not C-Bills. Honor points in general would be earned by killing bigger more threatening mechs and higher ranking players but no points for losing a match. A nice restrictive system like this would both hold clans in check and be fluffy.
Plus 10vs12 would need to be implemented for balance. It would be silly to reduce clan tech to IS tech levels and I hope they dont. Price in honor points would obviously be higher to pay for the equipment since it is better than IS tech. That should be all the balancing needed. Out numbered, more yet less customization for mechs due to omni-tech and extreme cost, and make it a paid for faction along with loss of IS mechs in mechbay.
When they are some day introduce the Clans, I would indeed expect a "currency" similar to the already announced Loyalty Points for the House regiments.
I think mercs are collecting Prestige instead?
Not sure how you imagine it would hold them "in check", though - it'd just be another resource to grind. Probably for the same purpose, meaning unlocking higher ranks and cool paint jobs, or transfers to a more prestiguous regigalaxy.
As for c-bills, they're just an abstraction. No MechWarrior in service to a House would pay for their own 'Mech - and those few that do (offspring of nobility) won't make sufficient cash in such a short timespan but rather inherit their 'Mech as a family heirloom. That we still have to pay for this stuff is just a necessary evil of online gaming. Just like the SWAT teams in Counterstrike have to buy their own body armour, and like Republic Troopers in TOR have to visit the auction house to buy a better rifle.
I for one hope for a 10v12 match balancing as well, but I think that Clan players should start out with their signature advantage in equipment. IS players could use Loyalty Points to purchase salvaged Clan stuff, though? That way, the Inner Sphere could "keep up" with the Clan players who are simultaneously investing their spoils into better-tweaked configurations and pilot skills. This formula depends, of course, on a Starter Clan 'Mech being equal to 1.2 Inner Sphere 'Mechs with basic skills unlocked. I have no idea if it'd pan out, and I think it would need actual live testing to get any reliable projection.
They're not going to split the player base and they're not going to convert the Clans into the elite pay 2 win faction. If anything that'll destroy the game more than the imbalance in mechs and glitches ever will. And as much as PGI likes to ignore the problems with their game I doubt they're oblivious to them.
People are over thinking this problem because its not a problem. The lore should be pushed aside. To rigidly adhere to it does nothing but produce artificial obstacles that do not need to exist.
They will have to. Plus lore is one of the most important things about this universe, without it this is just another boring mecha game so dropping or not building the game according to the lore is a non-starter and the game might as well close up shop. They have already hurt it by essentially making IS mechs Omni-mechs, that's far enough.
Clan tech has no business in IS hands until after at least 3053 or 54. It took years for IS techs to figure out how to jury rig clan weapons onto IS chassis and much longer to come up with their own cheap copies. Its the equivalent of giving a 1960s TV repair guy a flat screen LCD TV and telling them to fix it.
They will have to split the base or allow accounts to have a second character slot with its own mech bay specifically for clan mechs. Having clan tech isn't paying to win and there would be nothing wrong with a business model that made characters pay for new mechs similar to the Pheonix package. Plus with honor based economy its not like clan players are going to be upgrading their mechs quickly and they will be forced to seek out the best and biggest mechs on the enemy team just to advance themselves.Playing as a clanner should be fairly rough and limited, grinding should take awhile and not just be taking part in a battle.
Col. Dash wrote: They will have to. Plus lore is one of the most important things about this universe, without it this is just another boring mecha game so dropping or not building the game according to the lore is a non-starter and the game might as well close up shop. They have already hurt it by essentially making IS mechs Omni-mechs, that's far enough.
They've broken for lore plenty of times (machine guns vs mechs lul) and pin point perfect accuracy and what do you mean just another boring mech game? The market isn't exactly flowing in mech games. The Mechwarrior Line of games has always brushed the lore to the backseat to maintain game integrity. I don't understand why people are so die hard in demanding it must be lore perfect or it will be a failure. The majority of the player base probably has near no knowledge of Battletech outside of the Mechwarrior franchise.
Making things needlessly difficult serves no one. it doesn't serve PGI who seems to perpetually be hurting for money and it doesn't serve the players who want a mech battle simulator not the authentic Battletech experience.
Col. Dash wrote:Clan tech has no business in IS hands until after at least 3053 or 54.
Because nobody managed to capture a piece for research until the DCMS did it in '52, seeing as the Clans steamrolled everyone before encountering sufficient resistance to actually let stuff remain on the battlefield to be salvaged. It would be a bit lame and one-sided if this winning streak would be replicated by the game, though.
Also, it should take years for a single MechWarrior to advance through the ranks, get better 'Mechs and join more prestigious units, too, but the game is compromising here as well.
This is what I meant about walking the middle road earlier - the lore is important, but there are opportunities where you can and perhaps should tweak things if it makes for a more fair and interesting gameplay experience. For example, Clan tech being superior to IS tech is an element that I believe must remain in place, yet on the other hand I don't necessarily agree about having to stick to the timetable with every little detail when 1) you think of the aforementioned issues with players "blitzing" through ranks, 2) the battles will yield different results in terms of battle outcome and conquered planets, and 3) 'Mech customisation is already much more liberal and open than it is in the canon.
Gods know, I wish they'd stick a bit more to the canon, at least then the Guardian ECM wouldn't be such a ridiculous gamechanger.
There is, of course, also the option of simply having the timeline skip to a later year, just like it would be possible to halt the timeline before 3060 and the Great Refusal, or jump to the Jihad etc - it all depends on how deeply PGI aims to explore the setting, and for how long they are planning into the future. Though personally I'm a bit on the fence about it and cannot really decide between whether I'd prefer a "live" timeline or one that jumps from one interesting moment to another.
Col. Dash wrote:Having clan tech isn't paying to win and there would be nothing wrong with a business model that made characters pay for new mechs similar to the Pheonix package.
The Phoenix 'Mechs are rolling out as purchasable for c-bills. Along other nice things such as the premium time or the customisation goodies, the package is nothing but an "early access" kind of deal. It might be P2W if this were not the case, depending on the individual 'Mech's performance (fortunately they all seem very balanced to the rest, though, otherwise people would complain about the delay).
Col. Dash wrote:Plus with honor based economy its not like clan players are going to be upgrading their mechs quickly and they will be forced to seek out the best and biggest mechs on the enemy team just to advance themselves.Playing as a clanner should be fairly rough and limited, grinding should take awhile and not just be taking part in a battle.
That's kind of like saying Trial 'Mechs are balanced because it takes so much time for players to grind themselves to a proper one.
A solution for permanent balancing must be found, not something that focuses on initial equality. Veteran teams from IS and the Clans must (obviously) have equal chances at winning a match.
For example, Clan tech being superior to IS tech is an element that I believe must remain in place
The simple solution to clan weapons is just rolling out lostech which for all intents and purposes would be identical in game. Balance problem solved on that front and lorewise is workable enough. It was already being worked on long before the Clans invaded.
The other, even simpler solution is to ignore it and leave it out of the game. LRM's and SRM's are still wonky, non ER weapons are pointless, SHS are pointless, MWO is not a game that has dedicated massive amounts of time to weapon balance. Do we really want to throw more weapons into the mix?
Well, I am assuming that they're waiting with the Clans until they've got the balance in a better state. For what it's worth, personally I believe they've almost reached a sweet spot again. At least I think that LRMs and SRMs are okay'ish (SSRMs need tweaking though, the staccato screen shake is ridiculous), and I have also made good experiences with non-ER weapons due to their lower heat and generally close engagement ranges.
SHS are problematic in that it's already sad enough that they had to curb DHS in order to reign in the difference in heat dissipation, but it's still pretty much a mandatory upgrade. I think they really ought to increase the rate at which dissipation occurs when a component is submerged underwater ... meaning: reward putting heat sinks into legs - which coincidentally only have room for SHS. Perhaps it would also be an idea to lower DHS hitpoints a bit, so that they break easier than SHS when receiving damage? You already have a harsh penalty in that you're losing 2 sinks (well, 1.4) for the price of one crit, but most of the time the entire component is close to being destroyed anyways as soon as this actually happens (if at all).
Whenever I play I take Company Command and order all the Light Mechs to form a spearhead toward the enemy lines, I have the Heavy Mechs try to flank, have the Assaults cap the enemy base(s), and have the Medium Mechs kill themselves.
Lynata wrote: SHS are problematic in that it's already sad enough that they had to curb DHS in order to reign in the difference in heat dissipation, but it's still pretty much a mandatory upgrade. I think they really ought to increase the rate at which dissipation occurs when a component is submerged underwater ... meaning: reward putting heat sinks into legs - which coincidentally only have room for SHS.
See that still wouldn't help SHS cause think about it. How many maps even have water in them? Half? Of them River City and Forest Colony are the only ones where you could reliably use said feature. PGI can't build maps around water. That's boring and while better cooling in water is cool it's just not enough to make up for the inferior option that SHS are.
Perhaps it would also be an idea to lower DHS hitpoints a bit, so that they break easier than SHS when receiving damage? You already have a harsh penalty in that you're losing 2 sinks (well, 1.4) for the price of one crit, but most of the time the entire component is close to being destroyed anyways as soon as this actually happens (if at all).
Would work if heat wasn't broken in the game. Unless running a high energy build, the heat sinks in the engine are all you'll ever need (unless your engine cap is really low and then you're just gimping the mechs that are forced to carry extra sinks). EDIT: And high energy builds are pretty meh right now.
The solution is to honestly makes Double Heat sinks weigh more (1.2~1.5 tons and using them actually becomes a decision to consider) or to tweak the space inside a mech. Double Heat sinks have only one downside, they take three slots which is rarely a downside cause few mechs need more than eleven or twelve and you can fit them all in the engine on most mechs. If space were at a higher premium it might matter more but few mechs have space problems. Only on my Atlas do I have issues with space and... It's an Atlas.
When space is simple and Double Heat sinks weight as much as Singles its just dead brained not to use them. We can either accept this (which I'm fine with ) and use DHS as a natural part of progression in playing a mech or we can try and find a real solution. Anything else is just some faux fix that doesn't really fix anything (again this is a glaring example of where Battletech functions fine on table top but not in MWO's current mechanics).
This is actually something where Clan tech/Los tech could even help. Make them take up more space and produce more heat as a price for their superior power. Space becomes a premium in that scenario. Or we could just treat said weapons like DHS are now. Part of the natural progression of a player. Something that is grinded for and then done and honestly there's nothing wrong with that. This is WoT's model and on that end WoT does great.
Whenever I play I take Company Command and order all the Light Mechs to form a spearhead toward the enemy lines, I have the Heavy Mechs try to flank, have the Assaults cap the enemy base(s), and have the Medium Mechs kill themselves.
My tactical acuity is formidable.
Oh no, your that guy?
Every time someone gives a pug team orders they always have bad scores.
LordofHats wrote:See that still wouldn't help SHS cause think about it. How many maps even have water in them?
Doesn't matter if it's situational if it is at least a notable advantage. I still put SHS in my legs just because of this. I'm not saying this is the solution - but it could be a part of it. One of many small situational details where SHS are better, where DHS just have a "raw" advantage in efficiency.
LordofHats wrote:few mechs need more than eleven or twelve and you can fit them all in the engine on most mechs
Wha? When was the last time you used an energy build? Maybe they're "meh" (though I'm doing fairly okay with them) because of the high heat and because you can never have enoug heat sinks with them. My Battlemaster carries two DHS in each of its side torsos and another one just below the PPC in its right arm.
As for space - I'd say crits become an issue quickly when you're really struggling for every single ton and try to shoot for Endo+FF. More free crits = more tonnage! Even having only Endo orFF (which I'd actually prefer; they're too similar already) can become tricky if you also slot an XL-Engine. It doesn't happen often that I run out of crits before I run out of tonnage, but it did happen a couple times ...
I feel that making DHS weigh more would just lead to a different formula of progression where those 'Mechs with few to none external heat sinks gravitate towards DHS (as engine heat sinks still work at the x2 factor), whereas builds with lots of heat sinks are likely to switch to SHS due to DHS actually being worse for being as efficient as 1.4 SHS but weighing 1.5 as much in tonnage and taking up more space. Somebody would come up with a fomula when it's "economic to switch", and that'd be that. I would still like situational effects more, but that's just me.
LordofHats wrote:This is actually something where Clan tech/Los tech could even help. Make them take up more space and produce more heat as a price for their superior power. Space becomes a premium in that scenario.
A big part of Clan tech was that the constant tweaking and experimenting led to a miniaturisation, so it'd be odd to have the stuff being bigger than its IS counterparts even when it's better. I think there are a few pieces of equipment that are specifically said to be smaller, even. The higher heat sounds like an option, though, and I think I've already seen similar suggestions on the forums. IIRC, Clan weapons "should" actually have less heat in the canon, but from what I remember this was never as big a factor as the size improvement. So let the Clanners develop a bit of firing discipline. And anyone else who wants to put a scavenged gun on their 'Mech.
Deathshead420 wrote:Every time someone gives a pug team orders they always have bad scores.
Phhht. I've seen it work. Just takes people who actually follow orders instead of still walking off on their own.
[edit] Hey, new patch is out.
Mostly just bug fixes, but looks like I got a free new cockpit item, and they made the countdown in drop prep go from 20 as soon as the last guy joined. Kinda misses the point of drop prep, but I guess next to no-one was using that time to discuss tactics anyways.
I'm not opposed to the situational effects, don't get me wrong. Like I said it's cool. it's just that on its own, it's kind of meaningless. It'll only matter on a few maps and even then only when in certain spots (ones conveniently lacking in cover too).
And I know about Clan weapons being more compact. I played MW4Mercs. The halmark of clan stuff in that game was smaller size/lighter weight, higher heat, and more power. But can you really make a medium laser smaller in MWO? It's just that in the MechLab, it's kind of a throw away fact. Players don't really care and it's not gonna be huge in game balance unless there's a Clan AC20 that's two slots smaller than the IS AC20 we already have. You can make them lighter, and that'll actually matter but You'll save at most a few tons depending on mech weight which would be offset by the extra heat that you don't have extra room to add a heat sink for.
Like I said, space isn't at a premium in the game. Ferro is often unavailable because you don't have the free slots for it but... So what? It's a marginal weight saver that usually isn't worth the 14 slots anyway. I only take it when I have the room and just upgrade the engine.
The big limiting factor on design in MWO right now is two fold; heat management, and do you want to take a hit to survivability to go XL? And the later is often a null question to begin with cause so many mechs have glaringly huge torso hit boxes that kind of make that decision for us.
And I know about Clan weapons being more compact. I played MW4Mercs. The halmark of clan stuff in that game was smaller size/lighter weight, higher heat, and more power. But can you really make a medium laser smaller in MWO? It's just that in the MechLab, it's kind of a throw away fact. Players don't really care and it's not gonna be huge in game balance unless there's a Clan AC20 that's two slots smaller than the IS AC20 we already have. You can make them lighter, and that'll actually matter but You'll save at most a few tons depending on mech weight which would be offset by the extra heat that you don't have extra room to add a heat sink for.
IS medium laser- max range 9 hexes. Heat 3. Damage 5
Clan Er Medium- Max Range 15 Heat 5. Damage 7. (1 slot)
IS large laser- MAx range 15. Heat 8. Damage 8 (2 slots)
A clan er medium laser is more comparable to an IS large laser, thus representing a saving of 4 tons. In MWO, it would in fact be far more devastating if it retains the higher cycle time of a medium laser. Clan AC 20s either are Ultra or LBX- LBX will be lighter and consume less space, the Ultra will lead to 40 pts of pinpoint dmg with a double tap.
Based on this, I believe you are underselling just how much more advanced the Clans are. I very much like the idea of a Clan mod module, which would allow access to a single Clan weapon. It would be a serious choice for the IS player, and at the same time discourage boating. What's the highest module count right now, 3 or 4? That many won't make IS mechs fight like true vatborn Omnis. Clan weapons on IS mechs would also be a very reasonable candidate for ghost heat.
I'd love to see Clan customization tied into their honor score, with beginning players relegated to stock or even Prime only variants. As you behave more and more like a clanner, you have the influence to convince the techs to modify the weapons to suit your skill- but if you forsake your honor, back to the Primes you go! This is only fair to the Clanners since their Omnis are already above and beyond the most tweaked out freebirth cheese wagons. The best Swayback will never touch the power of a stock Nova on its luckiest day.
Edited to add slot count for the LL and Clan ER Med. That also matters, since you can put them in the head.
Well we are going to have to agree to disagree then. I think the game should be brought back in line with lore in a major way. Battletech simulator/mech simulator is the same thing. The game is about the lore. Not everyone has to be a big fan of the lore to play but it needs to be there. This game is for the fans and we invested long before the game went live. That's the reason the franchise has lasted 28 years(admittingly it almost went down thanks to the stupid Jihad era).
Weapons should not hit with pin point accuracy but be in the area as a nice compromise. I can go as far as weapon customizing as they are now for IS mechs but changing out armor and engines are a no go and changing out the internal structure is asinine, go change the frame on your car to aluminum tubing.
Clans need to be separate, they need to have a completely different playstyle and rewards system based on the clan system.
By using the ELO system in place now it would be fairly easy to do matches. Not sure exactly how the system works but pilot skills plus the battle value of the mech for each team member roughly balanced with the clan players. Done and done and it kind of follows the clan bidding system. You also now get 12 IS mechs vs possibly 6 clan mechs. Weapons quality will balance things but mobility and tactics will make the clans fight the uphill fight they enjoy and live for.
edit: clan module is a good idea, but no more than one per mech and definitely not in the near future. Maybe 6 months to a year down the road after clan release.
You're right in that I don't know the table top rules for clan weapons. But honestly that's a benefit because I don't care. Translating a turn based dice rolling table top game into a live action tactical shooter is starting a project asking to fail. What is balanced and workable in one quickly becomes unworkable in the other. There are no points limits in a real time game where players bring their mechs to the table before a match starts. If they fixed the weight class imbalances, we wouldn't even need a stupid drop limit that will force people to play in mechs they don't want to. This game isn't Battletech. That's a table top game. Mechwarrior is a PC shooter series and has at best only ben friendly to the lore not completely accurate to it. MWO is already like this, so while we can talk about what a game true to the lore might look like we're talking about a game that doesn't exist.
Col. Dash wrote: Not everyone has to be a big fan of the lore to play but it needs to be there. This game is for the fans and we invested long before the game went live. That's the reason the franchise has lasted 28 years(admittingly it almost went down thanks to the stupid Jihad era).
Fan entitlement is not an argument. PGI has done a lot more to be lore friendly than many developers would and that's to be applauded, but Mechwarrior isn't Battletech no matter how much people wish it was. THe Mechwarrior games have always broken from the lore and I don't expect that to change. Creating a hugely complicated mess to stay true to the lore pleases a minority of the player base, reduces accessibility to a game that already has a high learning curve, and puts undue burden on PGI who already struggles to develop content in a timely manner. Not every beta player is a hardcore Battletech fan (I was in the beta). What you're asking for is player elitism. Where the people who give should get what they want. It doesn't work that way.
In a perfect world where PGI had an infinite amount of time and money such a game would be cool. In the real world where there are limits both on the developer's needs and the players, being hard core true to the lore just doesn't work. It's just not going to benefit the game at all.
Weapons should not hit with pin point accuracy but be in the area as a nice compromise.
This we can agree on. So many problems with MWO could start getting fixed if they just did away with pin point accuracy.
MWO is not going to be Lore Perfect. Much like ESO isn't going to be Lore Perfect.
I think it would be incredible if someone took the more hardcore sim-style games (Mw4?) and advanced and modded the heck out of it, then added a single-player campaign RPG sort of thing. It could be incredible, and sounds exactly like the sort of Kickstarter-funded, Fan-made project that seems to be popping up so often lately (the Shadowrun game, for example).
Yeah. I too wish for a campaign in line with MW4 Mercs. I know its not to most popular of the MW series, but damn I loved that campaign and more RPG would be great for it. Hell Battletech is definitely lore rich as a setting. Why isn't there an RPG should be the real question XD
Deathshead420 wrote:I was referring to the guy giving the orders personal score.
Ohh, gotcha.
That being said, I'd value a win higher than topping scores.
Fittingly, it could also differ depending on one's 'Mech. It is far easier to give orders from the cockpit of a slow Assault than a nimble Light, just because you spend most of the time slowly lumbering somewhere, anyways. Smaller 'Mechs may demand much more direct awareness simply by getting somewhere faster.
Anyways, I always feel fortunate when someone takes command. It usually leads to more coordination, and it just feels more like a military then.
Col. Dash wrote:You also now get 12 IS mechs vs possibly 6 clan mechs.
If we're talking canon then the Clans need to show up with 10 'Mechs on their team, and balancing needs to work around this. I'd even regard proper organisation as more important than differences in equipment, simply because the former is "more visible".
That being said, an option would be to make Clan stuff better without an exact replica of the tabletop stats. MWO already deviated from them for the Inner Sphere, so it should almost be expected for Clan weaponry. It could be resolved in a DHS kind of deal - clearly superior, but not as much as it "should" be, and thus allowing for compensation via numerical advantage.
I actually forgot Clan stuff has more heat, too, so this would work as another factor.
LordofHats wrote:You're right in that I don't know the table top rules for clan weapons. But honestly that's a benefit because I don't care. Translating a turn based dice rolling table top game into a live action tactical shooter is starting a project asking to fail. What is balanced and workable in one quickly becomes unworkable in the other.
I have to agree with Col. Dash in that I would prefer MWO to remain as close as possible to the canon. However, I still see the possibility to cater to both sides - staying faithful to the original material without neglecting the necessity of balancing. Honestly, just scaling down some of those numbers would already go a long way. Clan stuff would still be flat-out better, but narrowing the gap is an excellent first step. Perhaps it might even be enough.
LordofHats wrote:
Weapons should not hit with pin point accuracy but be in the area as a nice compromise.
This we can agree on. So many problems with MWO could start getting fixed if they just did away with pin point accuracy.
I like pinpoint accuracy where it makes sense. Arm-mounted weapons should have it. I would like torso-mounted weapons to be fixed, however. For example, when my Battlemaster with its 3 Medium Lasers per side torso shoots, and I aim the crosshair at an opposing Battlemaster's cockpit, then three of my beams should hit his left side torso, and three more the right, rather than everything going to where my mouse points. That area will only be hit by my PPC.
A co-op multiplayer campaign for MWO would be boss. They did talk about this in an interview a year or so ago, and it's something they are keeping in mind - but, for the time being, just as an option for the far future. They said a proper campaign would require a lot of cash, supposedly.
Oh well. Community Warfare will still be fun.
Lordofhats wrote:Hell Battletech is definitely lore rich as a setting. Why isn't there an RPG should be the real question XD
It did have two P&P RPGs, and I have spent a couple hours working on a conversion for Green Ronin's AGE rules:
http://mwrpg.wikispaces.com/
But you are referring to a computer game, I guess? I think Battletech as a setting sometimes suffers from the focus on 'Mechs, much like 40k suffers from the focus on Marines or Star Trek on the Federation. Everyone 's always looking to whatever is the "poster thing", and developers tend to have little faith in deviating from this path, even when the setting itself offers potential for so much more. An RPG with 'Mechs just wouldn't really work, but on the other hand, Battletech without 'Mechs sounds risky. And that is before you consider how many factions there are and that you'd have to limit yourself to one...
Remember the clans could and would bid down to points of stars. If they felt that they could be successful by sending a star and two points of mechs to take on a company of IS mechs they would do so for honor's sake. Likely in the fluff they would hedge their bets and initially bet two full stars so they could call for help if needed. Six vs twelve wouldn't be completely out of line for particularly confident and skilled clan commanders.
The Clans will very likely be structured much like Mercenary companies and House regiments when it comes to player-run units, though - and it'd suck if you could not have the entire team (2 Stars) drop because balancing is focused on a non-standard deployment.
Of course you could organise player-run units on reduced deployments from the beginning, but I think that would look odd and out of place.
Besides, teamplay is a huge factor in these games, and if you balance it in a way that means that a Clan 'Mech has an equal chance against 2 IS 'Mechs, the matches would be fairly broken simply because PUGs already have a hard time coordinating their tactics. Simply being fewer players (that have a mechanically equal chance at winning) will be a big advantage to Clan players all by itself.
You definately will not see three stars vs three lances. Clans are already advanced. At most you will see 10 mechs vs 12 IS mechs. Sorry, I am hoping and messaging on the boards for a purely point based system. It definately wouldnt suck, it would be lore and the way the Clans do things.
Clans do not use teamwork. Its every guy for themselves to gain as much honor as they can by killing the biggest threat they can by themselves. Leaders appear because they somehow can do the above and still keep their minds on the overall strategy. Knowing that we as players will break this and still work as teams regardless will give a large advantage to the clans even being outnumbered. Range advantage, heat advantage, armor advantage, speed advantage, who cares if they are outnumbered?
And being outnumbered would be a disadvantage far worse than any weapon imbalance. Fewer targets to take fire, fewer mechs to cover points. It would be nearly an auto-loss in Conquest and probably the assault game mode as well.
It would in fact suck. All it'll do is divide the community.
Col. Dash wrote:You definately will not see three stars vs three lances. Clans are already advanced. At most you will see 10 mechs vs 12 IS mechs.
That's what I meant. 2 Stars vs 3 Lances. Brainfart has been corrected.
Col. Dash wrote:Clans do not use teamwork. Its every guy for themselves to gain as much honor as they can by killing the biggest threat they can by themselves.
And how would you try to "enforce" this in a game where people chiefly want to win - and where teamwork is the best way towards achieving this goal? One option would be to not give out any rewards to pilots who score below a certain amount of points, in essence encouraging loners and lack of co-operation, but I really think that the majority of Clanners would not like such a system and its effects on progression. And in pre-arranged matches, neither side would care about XP or C-Bills but just about showing off how awesome their unit is.
LordofHats wrote:And being outnumbered would be a disadvantage far worse than any weapon imbalance. [...]
Depends on how much better their equipment is... If the numerical discrepancy is only 2 'Mechs, I could see it work out. I've won several matches where my team had a disconnect, just as I got beaten by teams with a similar handicap. Teamwork and skill ultimately count for more than even an entire 'Mech, and more powerful weapons (and more weapons) could balance this nicely - although I'd rather see it the other way around, that the superior equipment is balanced by sticking to Clan military organisation, meaning 2x5 players instead of 3x4.
But as I said, it would require a lot of finetuning to get it right. I'm not sure how long that would take, or how frustrating it could be (anyone remember LRMwarrior Online? or the Reign of the CRaven?) - I just know that I would prefer at least trying it, before we have no difference between IS and Clans at all.
Hrm... Maybe give Clanners penalties for Assists? Similar to the penalties for Team Kills? This would mean that they'd all be attempting to get out there and score kills as fast as possible, would avoid firing on an enemy that someone is already fighting, and would focus on single targets instead of spreading fire to groups. Make it so that you don't get the Assist penalty if the person who had already damaged the enemy Mech has died.
Its the Clans, life is supposed to be more difficult and with all the advantages they have, making life hard will discourage players from playing them except the ones who really want to play. Anvil has a great idea and I think that part of it should definitely be implemented, or at a minimum, no assist bonuses.
Note I said in my part about everyone for themselves that it would be hard to get players to do this. We as humans are used to working as a team and even more so in video games which is why the point system will reduce this a bit as players will work as a team anyway so make the mech forces somewhat even in BV and skill rather than pure tonnage and chassis number, its pretty easy coding. Later in the Invasion the clans quit using Zellbringin(sp?) anyway because it was too big a disadvantage vs the dishonorable IS pilots.
I doubt they would do something so obviously anti-lore. I can understand them giving the massive leeway they have for customization from a business sense and for just general purpose. Doing that would genuinely piss a ton of people off.
It would also be easy to implement a system where the first mech to engage gets total credit unless they engage more than one enemy before the first is destroyed. Easy to implement since the game keeps track of who does what anyway.
4chan apparently does amazing things with settings that are already over the top, full of gore, oversexualization, and thinly veiled references to Nazis. Go figure.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So I'm in the market for another Mech to keep as a permanent/trial. I got enough C-bills to buy most any Light and about half the Mediums, and I got my eye on a Hunchback- but I'm really not sure if I wanna try the classic 4g (I think? the AC/20 one) or the Missile boat variant.
Or should I save up to try out a different Assault, or start up the Dragon or something?
I just got Elite on the Cataphracts, and I'm keeping my 4x as my 'go to' Mech for now.
Jenners are fun, but since you mentioned the huncy, I'm guessing you are keen on it. The 4J isn't as good as the 4SP. The 4G is good for machine guns, while the 4H is better for a single big gun since it can take lots of mediums too which the 4G wouldn't be able to do. The ac20 and gauss seemed to work well for me. The 4P has lasers. need I say more?
Also, people speculate that the next hero mechs are the huncy and the jenner to continue the trend for the founders mechs. It might pay to wait a bit before those too if your into heroes.
Btw, if your still stuck, try the centurions. They are quite good and stuff.
Ledabot wrote:Btw, if your still stuck, try the centurions. They are quite good and stuff.
<- Centurion are awesome. They can zombie and stuff.
Really, it's crazy how they just keep shooting at you and stuff blows off your 'Mech yet you just keep on going and zap away with the lasers in your chest. There have been quite a few games I ended up with nothing left than the center torso, head, and a single leg.
Hrm... I was wondering about trying a Light out- if I went Jenner, I'd probably go Troll with a pair of Large Lasers (or maybe Meds) and 4 Flamers, with some arty strikes for flavour. Or maybe try out a PPC Jenner.
Can you tell I like dealing a lot of damage in a single shot?
Would overheat too fast for my taste, and all those tons would be a severe hindrance in terms of slotting a powerful engine. With Lights, speed is your armour - if you get hit at all, you're gonna have a bad time.
Besides, 4 MedLas do the same amount of damage as 2 PPCs. Not on the same point (usually), yes, but with a lot less heat and tonnage, and they do more damage than 2 Large Lasers with only 2 points more heat whilst still being a lot lighter.
I've seen people do a good job with an ECM-Spider mounting a single ER-PPC, however, essentially playing a fast moving sniper focusing on shooting enemies in the back so as to not being seen.
Ultimately, it comes down to the personal engagement style. Aside from the Spider-Sniper, both the Spider and the Locust also seem to fare well as harassers that just dart around larger 'Mechs whilst the enemy is busy with the rest of their team, plinking away with their machine guns and thus doing a lot of damage over time by employing the "thousand pinpricks" tactic. And lastly, there is the Jenner as (imho) still the best Hit & Run Skirmisher, if used with its standard loadout. The quad lasers mean that you'd be building up heat a lot, so Jenners should either get into combat, fire off a few salvos, and then get out again to cool down a bit, or (if the pilot feels lucky and/or the enemy doesn't pay attention) stay in the rear of some large 'Mech and just keep peeling off that armour.
Coincidentally, this is how the Jenner is supposed to be used according to the TRO, so MWO really succeeded in making the default loadout seem sensible here.
Although I also am tempted to try out a Catapult build I designed- 8 (or 7 and a TAG) Streak SRMs, a bunch of ammo, and the largest standard engine I can mount on it- plus armour to flavour. It was actually over 100 KPH in the test build, I think. A giant Light Hunter, capable of dealing a ton of damage in a single volley and keeping up with the Joneses.
You probably mean the C4-variant for 6 missiles + TAG. Any ideas for the remaining energy slot?
The largest standard engine should be a 315-rated model - with speed tweak you should get close to 90 kph. Not enough to keep up with most Lights, but perhaps you can stay in range long enough.
As a Light pilot, I used to hate hate hate Streakpults with a passion. Back when SRMs still had that buggy self-expanding explosion radius, one of these could core you within about 2-3 seconds. Nowadays they are not that dangerous anymore, but certainly still annoying. Just be prepared that a lot of pilots that made the same experiences as I did will probably focus you just out of principle.
The most dangerous Light hunter right now is actually the Golden Boy. Approaching 100 kph in speed, has jump jets, and 5 missile hardpoints for 10 Streaks. The new FOTM for anyone who has a burning hatred for Lights.
By the way, it actually seems Streakboats are more useful against heavier 'Mechs rather than Lights - not because of the damage they deliver (which isn't that great anymore), but because you can troll the gak out of people by chain-launching your SSRMs and thus putting the enemy in a state of near-permanent cockpit shake, causing them to stop hitting anything. Seriously, it's so bad, I'm almost tempted to call it abuse. Fortunately, a new module has already been announced: Advanced Gyro, will lower cockpit shake by 33%. Can't wait to put this into my Battlemaster.
Huh. It was actually the A1 (old school!)- It was NARC, not TAG. Was mistaken. And NARC is actually a Missile slot.
Yeah, only about 90 KpH- still rather fast for a Heavy, and with JJ to boot. Not to mention most Lights seem not to do hit-and-runs properly, preferring to get in range then run circles and circles around people. This is why I like having my main weapons on my arms, and don't think I'd ever really like a Mech without lower arm actuators.
Aah! Gotcha. Yes, with NARC it would work. Are the pods homing, by the way? I've never actually used them.
Circling can work well for a Light, but it should not be done with any opponent. Catapults in particular have a disturbingly high twist radius (like, "The Exorcist" head turning scene high), and JJs would only help further with that. Against Atlases, however ... hell, those bad boys even have trouble hitting you when you stand right in front of them, thanks to their slow turn and twist speed and the limited firing arc of the torso weaponry. It's always a question of the circumstances (what's the environment? is the enemy pilot busy? is the target already damaged?) too, though. It's easy to make the wrong call in a heated moment, and with Lights a pilot is very, very prone to adrenaline rush (the combination of speed and the very high vulnerability really gets you in the mood) - which can result in the most awesome kill streaks, or in the most embarrassing death. I've had both aplenty, but the former easily makes up for the latter.
If I'd spot a Streakcat and have time to think I would very likely try to stay the hell at least 300 meters away from it, and target its ears with my lasers. I've taken down two (I think) of those beasts like that, simply because they were unable to get in range and I had a free field of fire (both times in water, once on Forest Colony and once in River City). This is when looking at your 'Mech's sensor scan of the enemy really pays off. Though you could always try to lurk somewhere behind your comrades, or lie in wait behind a building, waiting for someone to run by and find themselves in range, similar to how Splatcats operate.
I think the best use of Streakcats would actually be as support Mechs- have one of those hanging around among the Heavies and Assaults in the main blob, and wait for the inevitable Light Packs that try to get in from the back.
That, or possibly as a Base Defender, with something like an AC/20 Jaeger or well-armed Phract to help deal with possible Assault cappers.
That is what I use my treb for. I really like my atlas and stalker, but i love my treb. I use it to hang around the mid-field and guard the pack, if base gets capped I run back. It is a great mech if used right, and only one model is good...but its damn good imo, plus not many people use them so when i do 5-600 dmg in a game I really feel like I earned it.
Until LRM's are fixed to be more consistent I don't play my cats too much, save my K2. Splat builts can be fun but like LRM's are very inconsistent (good luck on the larger maps doing anything useful). K2 though bloody love that thing. Nothing like a second line sharp shooter mech with dual AC10's for taking out center torsos on every assault mech on the enemy field. I'd actually argue the K2 does it better than the Jeager which can field the same build. The XL is less of a weakness on the Cat's puny side torsos and the placement of the AC10's makes getting both shots to hit the same section easier from more angles.
But yes, the Cat-K2 plays much more fun than I had first imagined it to be. The only thing missing would be jump jets.
A fast XL engine, a pair of ER-PPCs, and for close combat twin-linked sets of medium pulse lasers and machine guns. And lots of heat sinks.
A great "tank destroyer".
I won't be shocked when the Jester releases as a Jump jet capable all energy K2. Calling it now That or it turns out the Jester is actually a K1 with a snazzy paint job XD
EDIT: As to the K2 I used PPC's on it before they got nerfed into the ground on any mech that can't carry enough heat sinks to manage more than 1. 65 tons with only 2 machine guns as viable back up weapons is dreadful. Large lasers work better imo for an energy K2.
LordofHats wrote:EDIT: As to the K2 I used PPC's on it before they got nerfed into the ground on any mech that can't carry enough heat sinks to manage more than 1. 65 tons with only 2 machine guns as viable back up weapons is dreadful. Large lasers work better imo for an energy K2.
I'll freely admit that I am biased towards the PPC because of the awesome sound it makes. At least it also works nicely to disable the ECM-bubble of the occasional Atlas-DDC.
2 MPLs + 2 MGs work surprisingly well as backup weapons, though. I've linked them to a single button and they are about heat neutral, so I can just keep the button pressed until whoever harassed me is either destroyed or ran away.
My K2 has twin lbx and quad mlasers. The lasers are good for peeling away the armor on a mech and the lbx keep the guy shaking and crit like anything. Works great for me.
Whelp! Sounds like Catapults are the next Heavy I go for Elite on.
Though yeah, I was looking at Trebs as well- might look into one of those instead... I like the idea of having a Rocket Punch with SRMs on that one variant...
in the latest faq with the devs they mentioned a lot about CW, whether that's clan-warfare or community-warfare is unknown but they did make direct comments on Omni-mechs and other clan stuff so I think it may be clans
Just lonewolfing mostly. Finally ground up to get my Awesome R (or t?- the 4 Missile hardpoint one). Still need a few million more C-bills to get the XL 300 and two more LRM15s, plus the tons of ammo I want.
Soladrin wrote:Out of curiosity, you guys all just going around as lonewolves or with a faction?
Spoiler:
Guess.
But really, it'd be cool to see Dakka Corps get off the ground - you don't need to wait until CW officially launches when the game already offers you to team up with people in your contact list. Y'all just need to find a time when everyone, or at least as many pilots as possible, are available for matches.
I have a liking for any Chassis that has significant hardpoints in the arms. Especially when they're changed up, so I can have different groupings on them- fire one side then the other. The Atlas tends to be difficult for me because I don't like the 'waste' of a grouping just to make my sides fire independantly.
Soladrin wrote:That said, I'm ashamed that gamers act this way and it's becoming the norm.
Yeah, same.
One should be careful with such statements, but I swear this wasn't normal ten years ago. I'm not exactly sure if this is a generational issue (rising psychological pressure and egoistical entitlement by way of our material lifestyle), or a phenomena of the internet or social media in general and how they are being used by people.
Oh well. New patch tomorrow! Get ready to download a few gigs of data.
It may simply be a reaction (sort of a 'path of least resistance' thing) to the nigh instant and completely anonymous communications the Internet allows- That is, people would still have done this ten years ago, if the mail had been instant and anonymous, instead of taking 5 days to get there and plastered with your legal contact information, leaving you plenty of reason to regret any harsh words.
I guess so. Then again, they also say that violence and lack of respect are gaining. I'm not entirely sure if this may not be a side-effect of how people are treating each other on the web, though. It's almost like a cycle.
Anyways, what are you thinking about the new patch? Got the Advanced Gyro for my Battlemaster, and treated my favourite 'mechs to the new Raider paintjob. Finally they did a pattern that's stripes rather than camo shapes again. Until now, we only had the default one, plus the exclusive PC Gamer camo which was impossible to get for anyone outside the States.
I'm thinking the Raider paintjob would work well as a sort of "field camo", though, wouldn't it? The Battlefield geeks amongst you may know that each regiment in the Inner Sphere tends to have at least two paint jobs - one for parades and one for the field. So I'm thinking these would be mine:
Ooohh.... Think this might be the precursor to the possible inclusion of AI tanks and infantry?
Even if it isn't- this is gonna change things up significantly. You won't be able to do Superlight caps as easily anymore (though I can't imagine the turrets will be indestructible) And the AMS turrets mean that people defending the cap points and bases will have a little better protection.
Exactly! If nothing else, it'll at least give people some time to react and delay the cap.
Perhaps it'll even lead to the development of entirely new tactics, such as dedicated cap teams, where two lances are tasked with delaying the enemy, whilst a third lance moves in on the enemy base and disables their turrets.
Did you catch the bit about some turrets having a front-facing shield? What I take from this is that they're vulnerable from the side or behind, so when you manage to have one 'Mech "distract" the turrets, their partner(s) have an easier time taking them out.
I wouldn't go as far as to even dream about AI infantry and tanks, but ... wow, who knows. Maybe some day!
I was testing out the new nvidia shadow play, thought i would post my mech match, nothing crazy just me and my lance doing well. I do have a nice ac20 vs raven shot at the end, just dont count how many times I shoot Hunt3r, one of my clanmates in the back
Cataphracts are amazing. I'm thinking of actually having a stable of them for when I want to switch things up with energy weapons instead of my 4x.
Still working towards my Awesome's 300XL engine. Missile boat's just slow and fat before then, and I don't have near enough tonnage for Artemis (or to upgrade my two LRM10s to 15s) until then.
LPL's make light mechs cry. Lately been my best performing weapon overall. the pulse mechanic just let's you put all that damage in one spot so easily,
The build doesn't get very high damage stats on the scoreboard, but I do get 3+ kills with about 300-500 dmg done. High damage without kills just tells me you are inaccurate.
With the amount of spiders and light mechs out there, high dmg vs low killl count doesn't mean you cant aim, just means you got your kills ganked.....or at least thats what i tell my self
Deathshead420 wrote: With the amount of spiders and light mechs out there, high dmg vs low killl count doesn't mean you cant aim, just means you got your kills ganked.....or at least thats what i tell my self
See that's why you should use LPL's. Easy to leg lights with those. Experienced light pilots often just bugger off when they realise I'm using LPL's.
Having a great time with my JM6-S with 2x AC2 and 2x AC5s. You throw out so much Dakka that even lights pretty much abandon the fight. Just have to know how to lead. She runs out of ammo pretty fast though.
Soladrin wrote: CTF 4-X with quad AC5's is still my go to cannon mech.
I tried the 4x, but if I recall, I didn't like it because half the cannons were torso mounted and half (low) arm mounted. It also had issues with speed if I recall correctly. I do use a quad AC/5 Jaeger that I LOVE.
So I just finished decking out my "stable" in terms of paintjobs and cockpit decoration. Really like how it "feels" piloting them now. It's amazing what a little bit of customisation can do for immersion.
Soladrin wrote: CTF 4-X with quad AC5's is still my go to cannon mech.
I tried the 4x, but if I recall, I didn't like it because half the cannons were torso mounted and half (low) arm mounted. It also had issues with speed if I recall correctly. I do use a quad AC/5 Jaeger that I LOVE.
You must be either mistaking it for the Illya Murometz or having some sort of weird half-Jäger flashbacks- all 4 of the 4x's Ballistic hardpoints are mounted in the arms- they actually share barrels, oddly enough. No problem for me when I chainfire them, but looks odd when you're doing an Alpha.
Anvildude wrote:all 4 of the 4x's Ballistic hardpoints are mounted in the arms- they actually share barrels, oddly enough.
I think this will change once they get to the Cataphract with their ongoing refurbishment project. They've been "fixing" older 'Mechs for some time now with this tech that lets the game show the actual loadout on a model. The last 'Mech that was upgraded in this way was the Catapult - now you can actually see the Gauss Rifles protruding from the CT ... and the 3xSRM6 Splatcat looks outright scary with those huge missile boxes.
Only a matter of time until the Cataphract gets this, too, then it should show the actual number of barrels.
Anvildude wrote:all 4 of the 4x's Ballistic hardpoints are mounted in the arms- they actually share barrels, oddly enough.
I think this will change once they get to the Cataphract with their ongoing refurbishment project. They've been "fixing" older 'Mechs for some time now with this tech that lets the game show the actual loadout on a model. The last 'Mech that was upgraded in this way was the Catapult - now you can actually see the Gauss Rifles protruding from the CT ... and the 3xSRM6 Splatcat looks outright scary with those huge missile boxes.
Only a matter of time until the Cataphract gets this, too, then it should show the actual number of barrels.
No, the A-1 looks ridicolous. As a dedicated (and currently sleep deprived, so sorry for the lousy grammar) Catapult pilot i can tell you that tose extra boxes have broken the Mech. I dont rate it, i dont value it. The arms are way to vunerable now for that build.
Any hows, i am currently leveling up all chassis to atleast elite. Currently im working on the Spider-look for me-im Blood Rose.
5V with 1 MPLaser and 1 SPLaser
G2G, another drop awaits.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Not sure what just happened but i think someone is cheating. A shot to m CT took me from ligtly damaged armour (24-20 pts) to dead. One shot.
Dual AC/20s could possibly do that. Or a triple Gauss or PPC build. Those sorts of high-damage brawl-snipers seem to be coming into the meta a bit more.
Remember that your non-armoured health is only half the value of the total possible armour on that area. On a Spider, that's not a whole lot, and most dual AC/20 or other high-damage pinpoint shots can core Lights with a single well placed shot. It's been hard recently due to buggy hit detection on many lights with some weapons, so this might just be one of those situations where hit detection worked- and the other times where you survived those sorts of shots were bad hit-detection.
You guys do know there's Critical Hits in this game, right? Even through armour, I think. That's probably what happened- especially as the LBX-10 actually has an increased Critical Hit modifyer and better Crit damage.
I don't think Crits can happen before armour is peeled off. But once that happens, the LBX (and machine guns) are having a field day.
My guess is that there either wasn't that much armour left on this location after all, or that he was hit by more than the LBX in the single attack.
Or that the attack also hit an armour-less side torso (LBX = spread) and triggered an ammo explosion, which then blew up the CT.
There's lots of possible explanations, but without a detailed combat log it's impossible to nail it down to something specific. I wonder how much more info the new after-round screen will feature? They did say it'll tell us more...
Stopped playing right before launch due to frustration with the game and some real life issues. Itching to come back and check to see how things have progressed.
Anyone looking for a wingman weekdays/nights after say...7pm EST?
Also, has the hit detection been fixed yet? Watching a Spider with six MGs mow through an assault was getting old.
Frankenberry wrote: Stopped playing right before launch due to frustration with the game and some real life issues. Itching to come back and check to see how things have progressed.
Anyone looking for a wingman weekdays/nights after say...7pm EST?
Also, has the hit detection been fixed yet? Watching a Spider with six MGs mow through an assault was getting old.
Somewhat- spiders are still coated in Teflon though. Oh, buy MC now get 20% free!
The Spider has received a hitbox update with .. I think the last patch, or the one before. I'd say it's gotten better - it was less the hit detection, but that model had some really wonky hitboxes it seems.
What's your pilot name? I'll just throw it in my list and see if maybe one of us catches the other online. Maybe we can also do something with Deathshead or the others.
A Raven, but you wont be able to mount anything else.
The Spider now has hitboxes that are larger than its actual legs. Still, atleast it means that the Mech requires actual skill to pilot now.
As for the LBX-I was still armoured well, and my spider only has lasers. And criticals only occur when there is no armour. Ah well though, there is no point in crying over spilt milk. Im still around and still having fun
A huge amount of info has hit the command chair again. For that one thing were everything is complaining about 480 tons, I wouldn't worry too much about that.
Also, Patch day! i was right to hold out on buying the JR7-K. I can get a much better hero now.
Despite srms being horrible according to the internet, I played with it and got quite good damage 400 upwards. I can only see it as an improvement over the JNR-K. Anything is better than that redundant rust bucket.
Quick question, I've got a raven with a ER PPC, 2 machine guns. I'll be adding a missile launcher and wondering wether to add a LRM 10 or some kind of SRM
I'd drop the machine guns and add armor or something, the PPC doesn't have a minimum range (I think) so if anyone gets in your face you're not limited. Although, I never run Ravens, ever. I can't get over how many times i've seen them get erased due to AC spam.
On a more frustrating note, Jaegers with dual AC/20's? Yeah, that's beyond frustrating to fight.
Me: Huh, that Jaeger is running right at me, I'll back up and start-
*torso hit, instantly killed*
Me: *sigh*
Frankenberry wrote: I'd drop the machine guns and add armor or something, the PPC doesn't have a minimum range (I think) so if anyone gets in your face you're not limited. Although, I never run Ravens, ever. I can't get over how many times i've seen them get erased due to AC spam.
On a more frustrating note, Jaegers with dual AC/20's? Yeah, that's beyond frustrating to fight.
Me: Huh, that Jaeger is running right at me, I'll back up and start-
*torso hit, instantly killed*
Me: *sigh*
Really? I love fighting them. Oh look its a boomjager, time to shoot side torso's! Those things are armored with paper.
Also, torso twist is your friend... against everything in the game.
Also, PPC's have a minimum range of 90. ER PPC's don't.
Frankenberry wrote: I'd drop the machine guns and add armor or something, the PPC doesn't have a minimum range (I think) so if anyone gets in your face you're not limited. Although, I never run Ravens, ever. I can't get over how many times i've seen them get erased due to AC spam.
On a more frustrating note, Jaegers with dual AC/20's? Yeah, that's beyond frustrating to fight.
Me: Huh, that Jaeger is running right at me, I'll back up and start-
*torso hit, instantly killed*
Me: *sigh*
Really? I love fighting them. Oh look its a boomjager, time to shoot side torso's! Those things are armored with paper.
Also, torso twist is your friend... against everything in the game.
Also, PPC's have a minimum range of 90. ER PPC's don't.
At long range i love BoomJaegers. "oh look, a lightly armoured, slow moving target for my PPCs" Up close they hurt. Allot
Personally the spam i hate is that damn 6 LRM 5 thing. I just got leveled by one, mainly due to the fact that all those explosions and all that shaking mean that aiming is impossible, so his team just nerfed me.
Frankenberry wrote: I'd drop the machine guns and add armor or something, the PPC doesn't have a minimum range (I think) so if anyone gets in your face you're not limited. Although, I never run Ravens, ever. I can't get over how many times i've seen them get erased due to AC spam.
On a more frustrating note, Jaegers with dual AC/20's? Yeah, that's beyond frustrating to fight.
Me: Huh, that Jaeger is running right at me, I'll back up and start-
*torso hit, instantly killed*
Me: *sigh*
Really? I love fighting them. Oh look its a boomjager, time to shoot side torso's! Those things are armored with paper.
Also, torso twist is your friend... against everything in the game.
Also, PPC's have a minimum range of 90. ER PPC's don't.
At long range i love BoomJaegers. "oh look, a lightly armoured, slow moving target for my PPCs" Up close they hurt. Allot
Personally the spam i hate is that damn 6 LRM 5 thing. I just got leveled by one, mainly due to the fact that all those explosions and all that shaking mean that aiming is impossible, so his team just nerfed me.
AMS completely shuts that build down. If you have 2 AMS near each other not a single missile will make it through.
Unfortunately, I have a magpie sort of style when I start playing games like this (well, anything really), so I bought my CN9-AL, completed that, and then what did I do? Bought a Dragon.../facepalm.
Sold the Dragon yesterday, going to see about saving up some more bills and then buy the CN9-A and kit it out. All the while repeating the mantra of "One Chassis 'till it's done!".
Also, the AC/20 Jaegers catch me by surprise is all. I think I'm dealing with one of those cute AC/2-AC/5 ones, an easy kill for my Centurion. Not really. Not. really.
I still love stomping about in my Dakkaphract- I've switched up my weapon groups so that instead of having all 4 AC/5s on a single chainfire group, I have the arms chainfiring on separate groups- left and right. Backup lasers are in the middle.
But this lets me get these awesome stutter-fires going. And having so much armour on my front allows me to essentially out Assault an Assault Mech- last game I waded through 2 Highlanders before going down.
Now I've got my Gausspult, heavy fire support platform raven, time for something new. Jenner Laser-boat or Flamer-boat? Some sort of suicide runner with 6 flamers, massive amount of heat sinks, and very fast? Sounds like a plan. Maybe some day I'll make an effective and proper build
Might want to try and unlock the Basic efficiencies for your Lights- Unlocking full Basic for 2 more Ravens (assuming you've been using your Exp you've been getting on your Mechs?)- then get Elite on one. Unlocking Elite fully on a Chassis doubles all the Basic efficiencies.
Hah, just saw Ledabot in his Ilya - for once he even was in my team.
Fun round, we really wiped the floor with the enemy team. They were much too scattered, whereas our own company moved and pushed like one big wall (Frozen City btw).
Lynata wrote: Hah, just saw Ledabot in his Ilya - for once he even was in my team.
Fun round, we really wiped the floor with the enemy team. They were much too scattered, whereas our own company moved and pushed like one big wall (Frozen City btw).
I've found that the only way to win on that map is to move as a team, if you get people running around lone-wolfing it, that's when you get wasted. So, more often than not I love that map, and oddly enough it was when I was piloting my Dragon.
On a side note, is making c-bills difficult for anyone else? I had five matches last night before I caught some z's and I only made like 300k. I haven't activated my Premium time yet (was saving it for a day off), is it worth while to invest in a mech with a c-bill bonus?
ive found it almost easier to make c-bills, but on another note, if you leave a game after getting killed do you still get the cash? I disconnected and when I logged back on it said my mech was in-game and when it finished I got a few c-bills
Lynata wrote: Hah, just saw Ledabot in his Ilya - for once he even was in my team.
Fun round, we really wiped the floor with the enemy team. They were much too scattered, whereas our own company moved and pushed like one big wall (Frozen City btw).
Holy crap. I actually know that game this time! I pugged 3 games before dinner today. I just hang with a lance of marik and stole all their kills. they thought it was very funny. A great example of how if you get some coordination, even pugs can clean the floor quite quickly.
Edit: Yes you get cash if you dc after dying. Before dying is a different story. You get nothing for that if I remember correctly.
Lynata wrote: Hah, just saw Ledabot in his Ilya - for once he even was in my team.
Fun round, we really wiped the floor with the enemy team. They were much too scattered, whereas our own company moved and pushed like one big wall (Frozen City btw).
I've found that the only way to win on that map is to move as a team, if you get people running around lone-wolfing it, that's when you get wasted. So, more often than not I love that map, and oddly enough it was when I was piloting my Dragon.
On a side note, is making c-bills difficult for anyone else? I had five matches last night before I caught some z's and I only made like 300k. I haven't activated my Premium time yet (was saving it for a day off), is it worth while to invest in a mech with a c-bill bonus?
Obviously I don't know what skill level you are at but ony my Ilya, Jester, X-5, Fang and Misery I think avarage 150k-250k per match. I do about 120k-200k on my regulars.
I wouldn't get an MC 'Mech just for the bonus .. buuut it is certainly one argument in their favour. The Champions give +10%, and the Hero, Founders and Phoenix 'Mechs +30%.
Protip: If you're low on MC, remember you can swap engines between 'Mechs, and sell surplus ones (three of my builds were configured in a way they all use an XL280) for good money. Always check your armoury if you don't have stuff lying around you are not using anymore.
Remember that you get bonus C-bills for your first 50 Drops, regardless of what you're running in. And I think the Trial Mechs might have the 10% C-bill boost on them even when they're still trials...
Also- If you strip Mechs before you buy them (and you should) you'll probably end up with dozens and dozens of Heat Sinks, and hundreds of Medium Lasers. With the Meds, remember that most Mechs come with a couple anyways, and you can only ever mount up to 9 on a single Mech (as far as I know) due to Hardpoint restrictions. So you might as well sell all of them except maybe 10 or 15.
Soladrin wrote: I have 25 mechs, I don't think 10 or 15 will cut it.
Let's see.. I have... 34 medium lasers currently mounted on mechs and 25 in storage.
The crazy eyed avatar says it all. You have seen the light
Im thinking of getting an assault next. Stalker Highlander or Atlas? I want to feel like im in a real Mech.
I think Highlander-733C and the Viktor-9K are considered the best Assaults right now. For Atlas DDC is pretty much just the best one purely by having ECM. Stalker is pretty much just a boating platform, all energy or all missiles and IMO a terrible chassis for anything other then long range stuff (LRM/LL/PPC boating).
Edit: Don't think I'll be investing in Assaults much untill clans drop to be honest, I just want my Blood Asp. Hard to find an IS assault mech I actually like. Only ones I own is Atlas 7RC and Misery.
I was invited to a group last night, did some 12 man drops against some of the more renown regiments (Sky Rangers were our last opponents), gotta say it's the most fun I've had with the game since I started. Having a company working together with comms was everything I'd hoped it be, lit a fire under my ass to keep playing and invest more time.
Apparently, there's a guide that describes how to start a new account, use MC to get some premium time, buy a hero mech, and using all of that with the Cadet Bonus to get something like twenty million C-bills with your first twenty five matches. Totally made a new account, heh.
Anyone work with the Orion yet? Always been a fan of the chassis.
Why would you go out of your way to make a new account for that? It's really not that hard to grind out some c-bills. I think I'm currently getting about 3-5mil per hour (Depending on mech used etc.).
And yeah, dropping with a team is the best way to play this game, I'd suggest going to the NGNG site, they have a free for everyone team speak server running for the game.
To be fair, 5 mil an hour involves me running nothing but my Ilya winning every match and getting those good engagements where I can just empty my ammo hoppers in a couple fights. Feels good unloading 240 UAC/5 rounds into a wall of mechs. Though I think it's actually more a 2-4 mil ordeal now that I think about it.
Also, had a 1000 dmg match in my Catapult A1 yesterday, which means most of my 800 LRMS and 200 SSRMS hit something. Actually ran out of ammo for once.
Oh for anyone who own's or thinks of buying a K2. Do it and use this build.
Soladrin wrote:I never sell surplus because I'll always need them after I sold it.
Even the stock engines? Who actually doesn't swap those?
... actually - okay, I think my Battlemaster still has the stock engine built-in; I didn't bother to change much about its loadout.
Anvildude wrote:I'm still supportive of Project Cancer- a fan-idea for adding the Crab and King Crab into the game. I really, really want a King Crab.
I want tanks and infantry.
Nope, even stock engines, because I'll probably end up needing it for a different mech at some point.
I keep a good stock of all weapons and parts. I only sell them when I have an ungodly stock of engines like 6-7 STD 200s in stock (not mounted on mechs.
Here's a cataphract build id like, I know half of you are cataphract pros but I quite like the look of this guy, a moderately ranged defensive artillery like build.
The Dark Apostle wrote: Here's a cataphract build id like, I know half of you are cataphract pros but I quite like the look of this guy, a moderately ranged defensive artillery like build.
what happened to the comunity warfare?? it was meant to out in november wasn't it? I want it in the game. sorry I haven't posted in sooo long I haven't been playing much untill the community warfare comes out but the waiting is getting old
mullet_steve wrote:what happened to the comunity warfare?? it was meant to out in november wasn't it? I want it in the game. sorry I haven't posted in sooo long I haven't been playing much untill the community warfare comes out but the waiting is getting old
They are currently getting ready to start development.
Yeah, yeah, hear me out - at least their communication has improved notably in that they've released a bunch of statements about what they are planning to do and what they are currently working on:
The Launch Module post includes some interesting stuff about private matches and team weight limits (requiring you to pre-set a number of BattleMechs in your garage or, alternatively, Trial 'Mechs in DropShip slots to switch if needed), whereas the Project Update hints at a new game mode - Team Deathmatch - coming up later this month. They also talk about the Attack/Defend mode a bit, which will apparently feature FOBs with automated turrets. Really looking forward to that one; not only is this a sneak peek at what Community Warfare will be about, but also the "siege scenario" is a classic that I've been hoping for ever since I started playing this game.
Also, I wonder what "functional cockpit glass" means ... more environmental effects? Or will we start seeing the cockpit to crack as we are hit by ballistic weapons? Laser burns on the surface?
Soladrin wrote:And you can't do highlander burials because the whole colission system is still borked...
For what it's worth, I would not see the old collision system come back. Things were just not fun as a Light - unless you were one of those griefers whose only aim when playing was to tackle their opposition, rather than actually ... y'know, shooting stuff.
That being said, I'd like to see an improved collision system, and I want DFAs.
I believe they are actually still possible, but not how they "should" work. You still receive damage to location when ramming or being rammed, so technically you can jump onto someone elses cockpit and have it pop. The damage is very small, however, and a proper DFA should have some sort of bonus due to mass.
Okay my next mech I'll be making will be a super fast Jenner flame boat, 4 flamers, 1 med pulse laser, fastest engine and a lot of heatsinks. I might add a tag as well just to help out and be a team player any suggestions or ideas?
Really? A spider came at me with 2, I over heated, got back, fired a shot we ran away, came at me again from behind, by the time I had turned around i overheated and ammo explosion blew my engine to kingdom come.
That sounds more like bad heat management or not enough heat sinks. Besides, most of my mechs love having light's getting that close, they tend to lose legs.
Flamers can be fun - though I'd never boat them. If you want to run a Jenner-F with them, I'd rather suggest 2 Flamers and 4 Small Pulse Lasers. Because they will share a weapons range, whereas the SPLs do as much DPS as normal Medium Lasers whilst causing considerably less heat. So: Get behind someone and start burning.
I've stuck a Flamer on the left arm of my Dragon-1N. It's mostly just for show and giggles, because I had enough space and wasn't sure what else to slot - but I still remember how I ripped apart an Atlas just because he was (a) effectively blinded by me spouting flames right into his face and (b) going into shutdown time and time again, giving me the opportunity to peel off his armour with my ER-LL and SRMs before hacking away at his internals with my LBX.
That was on Terra Therma, btw. Flamers work especially well on hot maps.
First time you've read a post by me on this thread? I think so
But yes, yes, I just go with things that tend to do things that others havent tried and rekindle the old MWO days (mind you I just heard stories not played myself) where each mech would have a specialty and it's job, like specialised LRM playforms, artillery mechs, scout snipers and agitators. That's currently the 4 echs I hope to populate my mechbays with
Scout sniper-raven with build posted
Agitator-Jenner, build posted
Artillery-cataphract, build posted
LRM platform-either stalker or catapult, prob stalker.
When I invest money into the game I'd make maybe a dragon conventional build, damn I loved that mech!
Ok the Jenner F boat is taking a back seat for something more conventional. A catapult C1 sniper/fire support hybrid mech. 2 PPCs, 2 LRMS 10s and 2 SRM 4s. It'd probably mirror my raven but far heavier!
Agreed, also, it's pretty much standard to run Catapults with an XL engine, their center torso hitbox so huge it probably won't actually decrease survivability by much.
Aside from those Gold Mechs (which are indeed ridiculous), the other packs are technically good prices, if you consider what's in the package and take it apart to look at the individual values.
That is, of course, if you really "need" that many Mechs...
I'm sure loads of people will bite just because of the MadCat, though. Guess I can count myself fortunate that my loyalty is to House Kurita and not a Clan.
The only thing that really bothers me is the "unique bonus module" thingie. Granted, it comes down to what exactly this is, but I don't like the idea of any piece of non-decoration equipment being "unique" and unavailable for standard game progression.
Not going to lie, I wish I could refunds right now. Phoenix mechs aren't even all out yet for regular players and the next money grab is already here....
Pretty sure this game is going to die pretty quickly. :(
This is definitely a moment to wait and see. Honestly I love the look of the models, and am glad that they did pause a bit to roll out some more content (hopefully).
I'd really like a select a mech option though- this tactic was bad enough when it was the 4 part Founders pack, and just gets harder to stomach the more mechs involved.
I am incredibly curious to hear more about Clan weaponry- all we've heard is it's not canon. We may be looking at 500 bucks for a glorified golden Stalker, if the weapons are not sufficiently powerful.
The unique modules don't bother me- I hope they pave the way for a little variation in factions. Cheaper mechs for various houses, special modules or breaks on consumables or gear for others, the sort of minor quirks that really help with distinguishing the Houses and Clans. Heck, for that matter tie them to the territory we'll be fighting over. I've had enough fair fights- I want a challenge, and some long term goals.
Soladrin wrote:Pretty sure this game is going to die pretty quickly. :(
Puh-lease. I've heard that kind of doomsaying a year ago and look where we are. Worst case is that this time they've really botched the prices and it won't sell as much as they predicted. Big deal. That being said, I still think a sufficient amount of people will go for the MadCat tier, just because MadCat.
Me, I'll just continue having fun with my Battlemaster. Didn't regret that purchase one bit. <3
Gitzbitah wrote:Cheaper mechs for various houses, special modules or breaks on consumables or gear for others, the sort of minor quirks that really help with distinguishing the Houses and Clans. Heck, for that matter tie them to the territory we'll be fighting over.
That is actually how it's going to work, according to the devs' last statements on Community Warfare.
The important thing here being that there is still not a single item you could not get at all.
Soladrin wrote:Pretty sure this game is going to die pretty quickly. :(
Puh-lease. I've heard that kind of doomsaying a year ago and look where we are. Worst case is that this time they've really botched the prices and it won't sell as much as they predicted. Big deal. That being said, I still think a sufficient amount of people will go for the MadCat tier, just because MadCat.
Me, I'll just continue having fun with my Battlemaster. Didn't regret that purchase one bit. <3
Gitzbitah wrote:Cheaper mechs for various houses, special modules or breaks on consumables or gear for others, the sort of minor quirks that really help with distinguishing the Houses and Clans. Heck, for that matter tie them to the territory we'll be fighting over.
That is actually how it's going to work, according to the devs' last statements on Community Warfare.
The important thing here being that there is still not a single item you could not get at all.
This has all the hallmarks of a F2P about to die going for that last money grab.
sweet mother of god! about 3000 replies to the "clan invasion feedback" please do what the devs of warframe did when they did a mistake, they made an official statement about it and refunded those who wanted one but most importantly changed their ways and gave the community some shut up money. if they give every member of the community 1 variant of any clan mech they want and release info on the clan mechs, CW and UI 2.0 people would forgive them!
This has all the hallmarks of a F2P about to die going for that last money grab.
Could you go into a little more detail on this? MWO is really the only F2P game that I'm somewhat familiar with. Didn't everyone expect the clans to be a big thing? I mean, they are extremely popular, so it makes sense that they would be trying to make a decent amount of money with them.
Soladrin wrote:This has all the hallmarks of a F2P about to die going for that last money grab.
You could say the same about Star Citizen, and that game isn't even out yet.
Really no, you can't. MWO is a game with a publisher, not a kickstarted game that's being crowdsourced entirely. Star Citizen clearly has everything shown as pledges.
