Praxiss wrote:Ok, just looking to confirm the Monlith:
AV 14 all round
Living Metal (remove shaken on 2+/stunned on 4+)Quantum Shielding? (Seems overkill on AV14)
Gauss Flux Arc (still S5 AP4?) - 4 24" Heavy 3 guns that can target independantly.
Particle Whip = 24" S8 AP3 Heavy 1 Large Blast (?)
Portal - Can move any single unit from ANYWHERE on the table OR can suck in a single model from 6" away which then suffer instant death - requires a Strength test
It is a "Heavy Skimmer" so can only move 6" but always counts as not moving when resolving shooting.
**Is the Particle Whip Ordnance? if so can you still fire the Flux Arc after firign the Whip?
**Can the all the monoliths weapons be affected by stunned/shaken/weapon destroyed (the particle whip used to be immune i think)?
think this should be it:
AV 14 all round
Living Metal (remove shaken on 2+/stunned on 4+)
Gauss Flux Arc (still S5 AP4) - 4 24" Heavy 3 guns that can target independantly.
Particle Whip = 24" S8 AP3 Heavy 1 Large Blast
Portal - Can move a single non-Vehicle unit from ANYWHERE on the table to the portal, this unit counts as having moved OR can suck all models from 6" away which then suffer instant death - requires a Strength test.
Reserve: Must deep strike if brought from reserve. Any non-vehicle unit can be brought trough the portal from reserve.
It is a "Heavy Skimmer" so can only move 6" but always counts as not moving when resolving shooting.
Praxiss wrote:Ok, just looking to confirm the Monlith:
AV 14 all round
Living Metal (remove shaken on 2+/stunned on 4+)Quantum Shielding? (Seems overkill on AV14)
Gauss Flux Arc (still S5 AP4?) - 4 24" Heavy 3 guns that can target independantly.
Particle Whip = 24" S8 AP3 Heavy 1 Large Blast (?)
Portal - Can move any single unit from ANYWHERE on the table OR can suck in a single model from 6" away which then suffer instant death - requires a Strength test
It is a "Heavy Skimmer" so can only move 6" but always counts as not moving when resolving shooting.
**Is the Particle Whip Ordnance? if so can you still fire the Flux Arc after firign the Whip?
**Can the all the monoliths weapons be affected by stunned/shaken/weapon destroyed (the particle whip used to be immune i think)?
The Particle Whip is an Ordnance weapon, so it doesn't appear that you can fire it and the Flux Arcs at the same time. The 'Eternity Gate', which is what can be used either as a 'Dimensional Corridor' (portal to transport Necrons) or as a 'Portal of Exile' (sucking enemy troops in) cannot be destroyed, but the 'Portal of Exile' is described as being a 'shooting attack' which means it can't be used if you fire the Particle Whip at the same time.
The Gauss Flux Arcs & the Particle Whip are just weapons now, so they can totally be destroyed by 'weapon destroyed' results (just not the Eternity Gate). And of course the Monolith can be shaken & stunned, but does have living metal to help mitigate that.
So it looks like you'd be able to either: Fire the Particle Whip and use the Eternity Gate to transport a Necron unit at the start of the turn or Fire the Gauss Flux Arcs and use the Eternity Gate in either fashion (transport portal or portal of exile).
Shame about not being able to fire everything but maybe that was hoping for too much.
Will still be fielding 2 in my first lists. Will probably augment them with a Doomdsday Arc floating at the back of the table as well. BOOM!
If you are fielding the Transport (Night Scythe is it?). You coudl always move however far you need to, drop off the unit behind the monolith for cover, turn the monolith aroudn and bring in anothe runit from elsewhere on the tabel, also into a big wall of cover. Then then ext turn you can charge BOTh those units into combat from behind the monolith. Also at that pont the Scythe and the Lith could then fire their guns ahead of them to improve the odds!
I'm thinking moving the night scythe flat out 24" (or 36" if supersonic, may that's the fighter version) and using the 3+ cover to keep it alive for a turn. Then drop off the close combat nastiness before moving so they can assault in that turn.
If your shot down, then no great loss, simply get the guys forward when they wonder on from reserve with veil or liths.
I'm assuming the night scythe portal acts as just a normal door in game to do this, unlike the monolith portal.
If the Scythe dropped off its troops presumably it is ok to fire available guns in the same turn to give the troops some covering fire?
Again, no idea how skimmers work (or even if they work differently to tanks). Neither i nor any of my friends use them so it never comes up.
On the up side. If the monolith can teleport from anywhere on the table that reduces the absolute need for the Night Scythe, so it then becomes more of a special vehicle rather than the deault transport (like the Rhino). Hopefully this also means that we dont need to spend as many points/cash on transports as other armies do.
It opens up a lot of possibilities for mis-direction as well which i am happy about. Deploy loads of warriors on the left, when the enemy moves there to nail then, portal most of them clear across the table! Can't wait!
Sir Harry Flashman, VC wrote:I'm thinking moving the night scythe flat out 24" (or 36" if supersonic, may that's the fighter version) and using the 3+ cover to keep it alive for a turn. Then drop off the close combat nastiness before moving so they can assault in that turn.
If your shot down, then no great loss, simply get the guys forward when they wonder on from reserve with veil or liths.
I'm assuming the night scythe portal acts as just a normal door in game to do this, unlike the monolith portal.
Cover save is 4+ for skimmers moving flat out. I don't believe they get a better one for moving supersonic, but I could be wrong.
Is the fact that the Monollith always counts as stationary meant as a flaw? It does nothing for its shooting, but it does mean it will be hit automatically in melee.
I'd like to field a Monolith, but I don't see such a slow-moving vehicle with 24" range weaponry being worth 200 points. If it had more threat it might serve as a distraction, but as it is I fear it will just be the last vehicle to go down. Praetorians are out as well. Lychguard, Wraiths, Scarabs and Tomb Spyders look like winners. From what I understand Tomb Spyders still have their Toughness 6 but now with 3 Wounds, while being slightly cheaper in cost. A unit of them is effectively an MC with 9 Wounds, for about the same cost as a typical MC. Interesting counter-assault unit.
I think it is so if you move 6" you can still fire all 4 Flux Arc guns. normall, as they are S5 you woudl only be able to move 6" and fire one of them.
Yes, you can move and fire Ordnance, but if you do you can't fire anythig else.
SO - The monolith can Move 6" and fire 4 x 24" S5 AP 4 Heavy 3 guns at 4 different targets...OR fire a single S8 AP4 large Blast.
yakface wrote:
I should mention that the Monolith portal rules specify that the unit counts as disembarking from a moving vehicle (even though it happens before the Monolith has a chance to move that turn), so there is no moving with the unit that phase after teleporting it, and since it counts as disembarking from a (not open topped vehicle), there's no assaulting that turn either.
Do you HAVE to use the teleport option before the Monolith moves?
yakface wrote:
I just discovered something rather distressing about the Night Scythes (the primary transport in the codex). If the Night Scythe is destroyed the embarked unit is not deployed, but instead goes back into reserves to arrive normally (i.e. it can't deep strike even if the unit has that rule).
So basically, leaving your unit inside this transport becomes a giant liability because if it gets destroyed your unit is likely to have no impact at all on the game.
About the only way I could see this still being a viable transport would be when using the Stormlord and having the cover of night fight to allow your transports to move up without being shot...but even then, is it really worth the risk of having your unit banished back to Reserves a few turns into the game?
Apart from, as you mention, being summoned through a Monolith while in reserves - I smell pre-emptive 6th ed changes to the transport rules. When 6th ed drops, being put into reserves from a destroyed transport might suddenly sound like a GOOD alternative!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
IdentifyZero wrote:Hey Guys,
Dakka is one of numerous GW/Hobbyist sites on the web. You say GW is not advertising? That all of the speculation does not help build the hype?
On Dakka alone, this topic has:
Replies: 1,843
Views: 126,537
All views may not be unique, but, you get the picture.
Good point. The main Necron rumour thread on Warseer has
Dakka is one of numerous GW/Hobbyist sites on the web. You say GW is not advertising? That all of the speculation does not help build the hype?
On Dakka alone, this topic has:
Replies: 1,843
Views: 126,537
All views may not be unique, but, you get the picture.
Good point. The main Necron rumour thread on Warseer has
Replies: 1,812
Views: 258,871
I think its all a GW marketing gimmick. Why put this stuff up all obvious on your own website when the restriction of information (aprt from rumour and conjecture) generates so much more interest and disscussion amongst interested parties? As these epic threads on here and Warseer show.
Sir Harry Flashman, VC wrote:I think its all a GW marketing gimmick. Why put this stuff up all obvious on your own website when the restriction of information (aprt from rumour and conjecture) generates so much more interest and disscussion amongst interested parties? As these epic threads on here and Warseer show.
They could do exactly the same on their own website if they chose to do so. There also used to be a forum on the GW site, but they got rid of it because apparently it was full of haters and was too much hassle to manage.
Having read through the discussion, and mulled it over for a few days, I think GW have made a mistake removing Nightbringer and The Deceiver from the codex.
Not that I dislike the fluff changes. In fact they work okay IMO. HOWEVER, including the two C'tan as special characters, independent, slightly more powerful than the generic shards, and able to command the army, would help bridge the gap between the old and new fluff. Plus they're great models!
If it were me, I'd impose restrictions on their army too. No overlords or triarchs, anything willing to resist the C'tan being destroyed. Also no other shards, as they get consumed by the more powerful C'tan. I would still include the royal court however.
Thing is, because of the way C'Tan Shards are fielded in the new 'dex, you can absolutely still use those awesome models, just as a representation of how that shard manifests. You also might run into Hive Tyrant problems if you included a C'Tan as a HQ choice, seeing as they'd be really expensive.
Eh, I'm excited for the release but no need to badger yak for statlines. He'll spoil a bit at a time for us while keeping us drooling for more until release day. And that is fine.
Dr. Delorean wrote:Thing is, because of the way C'Tan Shards are fielded in the new 'dex, you can absolutely still use those awesome models, just as a representation of how that shard manifests. You also might run into Hive Tyrant problems if you included a C'Tan as a HQ choice, seeing as they'd be really expensive.
Of course they can still be used, but there's always something nicer (IMO) when you use a SC model for the character intended. Plus it would open up the opportunity for a whole other beautiful model to be produced for the generic shards. After all, there were supposedly hundreds of C'tan. Why would the shards always be from the same two?
The other bit is a strategic consideration. Well out of my ability range to fairly comment on.
in fairness, if you coudl field ACTUAL C'Tan, their stats (not to mention their points cost) would be horrific. i mean, they're gods! You'd have to look at Apoc Gargantuan creture kind of states!
At least with the shards you can gve them non-game brakign stats and explain by saying they are just a small piece of the god in question.
*reads the last 8 page since he's been on here last*
OK... I still think it will be a fun and interesting experience. And assuming my fiancee doesnt try to part me with my hobby Necrons will probably be my next project before DA (whenever they get a new codex).
Praxiss wrote:in fairness, if you coudl field ACTUAL C'Tan, their stats (not to mention their points cost) would be horrific. i mean, they're gods! You'd have to look at Apoc Gargantuan creture kind of states!
At least with the shards you can gve them non-game brakign stats and explain by saying they are just a small piece of the god in question.
Exactly, just look at the Avatar; if he were the original god of war, he'd be playing keep away with the gauntlets of ultramar (to matthew wards distaste...). Honestly, nobody complains that you cant field khorne on the battlefield
I don't think I explained clearly. The idea was for them to represent two shards that were still free from Necron control. Indeed they were powerful enough to command the lesser Necron units. They wouldn't be the C'tan themselves, just more powerful and unique special character shards
That way you can appeal to some of the Necron players annoyed by the changes, and explain the odd fluff gaps created by the retcon.
yakface wrote:Oh, and the Gauss Flux arc is only S4 AP5.
As a nid player i may be mistaken, but doesn't this significantly change things as the Gauss Flux Arcs effectively become "defensive weapons"...?
It's all moot- from rumors the monolith always counts as stationary for shooting purposes - it may always fire off every weapon. Ordnance rules prevent other weapons from firing - so it's either the arcs or the whip during the shooting phase.
A couple of interesting questions - is the particle whip measured from the ring-pop gem now, or from one of the flux arc guns as in the previous iteration?
As to the 'lith getting auto-hit in combat, i would say based on rumors the answer is no because you're only stationary for shooting purposes - for CC you need to reference actual movement to determine the to-hit number on the dice.
Ascalam wrote:
Geez. He's a Centaurii wannabe Wonder how he's deal with a Nid incursion..
Sure, he may not deal well with bugs in his quarters, but Londo's willing to vaporize part of the homeworld to remove an infestation of ancient insectile creatures if necessary.
Valek wrote:whatever and im quite sure it will loose ordonance in the new rules, otherwise the monolith will be severly overcosted...
If you've been following this thread, then you should know that the Monolith has gone through a plethora of changes. It has kept the Ordinance on the Particle whip.
Not being able to assault out of the Monolith is lame it's like I go ok thats awesome and then no it's not....
Our transports are flimsy and we can't assault out of them and we can't assault out the Monolith and the only unit that can use the Ghost Ark that would be worth assaulting with will likely get FAQed into not being able to use it.
I guess I'm just not a fan of multiple turn maneuvers with the average number of turns in a game.
KarlPedder wrote:Not being able to assault out of the Monolith is lame it's like I go ok thats awesome and then no it's not....
Our transports are flimsy and we can't assault out of them and we can't assault out the Monolith and the only unit that can use the Ghost Ark that would be worth assaulting with will likely get FAQed into not being able to use it.
I guess I'm just not a fan of multiple turn maneuvers with the average number of turns in a game.
Yes that would be lame...if the Necrons were primarily an assault army. The CC specialists in the army hold more of a support or mop-up role I think. I mean, just look at their low I.
Valek wrote:I will believe it when i see the actual codex
I don't know what would cause you to believe some of the things Yak posted, and not others. You are free to make your own judgements though, Of course.
Well necrons are NOT an assault army. Our cc units are assassins and counter-assault units. 3 of which are fast enough to get in range and assault on their own without transport (praetorians, wraiths, and beast scarabs). Why are you complaining about not assaulting after bamfing through a monolith or vodding anywhere on the table. Tactical reinsertion? check. Torrent-of-fire? Check. Rapid-firing s5 ap4 gauss blasters at a unit (as well as shooting a s8 large blast from the monolith that brought you there) then warping to the other monolith or vodding somewhere else out of harm's way? epic. Don't put shooting units directly in the path of thunderhammer wolf riders, etc, let the wraiths tangle with those for awhile.
This is all contingent upon the playtest codex being identical to the released one, which we all know won't be the case. C'tan will be point costed differently, perhaps, maybe a statline change here or there (dreadknight comes to mind. Playtest version was way different than released one).
It's best to stave off any tactics-arguing until we've all seen the new book in living color (or in black and white, to be literal).
tetrisphreak wrote:Well necrons are NOT an assault army. Our cc units are assassins and counter-assault units. 3 of which are fast enough to get in range and assault on their own without transport (praetorians, wraiths, and beast scarabs). Why are you complaining about not assaulting after bamfing through a monolith or vodding anywhere on the table. Tactical reinsertion? check. Torrent-of-fire? Check. Rapid-firing s5 ap4 gauss blasters at a unit (as well as shooting a s8 large blast from the monolith that brought you there) then warping to the other monolith or vodding somewhere else out of harm's way? epic. Don't put shooting units directly in the path of thunderhammer wolf riders, etc, let the wraiths tangle with those for awhile.
This is all contingent upon the playtest codex being identical to the released one, which we all know won't be the case. C'tan will be point costed differently, perhaps, maybe a statline change here or there (dreadknight comes to mind. Playtest version was way different than released one).
It's best to stave off any tactics-arguing until we've all seen the new book in living color (or in black and white, to be literal).
Well, it almost seems like this is more than a Playtest Codex. Yak has mentioned the Artwork several times, which doesn't seem like something they would include in a playtest codex. We'll see of course.
I do agree, that not assaulted out of the Monolith is fair. I think it would be too good if that was the case, considering you could pull anything from reserve, to the front lines instantly to smash into your opponets. I can see 10 Man Immortals coming in, and laying down a torrent of Blaster Rapid fire, or Tesla shots.
tetrisphreak wrote:Well necrons are NOT an assault army. Our cc units are assassins and counter-assault units. 3 of which are fast enough to get in range and assault on their own without transport (praetorians, wraiths, and beast scarabs). Why are you complaining about not assaulting after bamfing through a monolith or vodding anywhere on the table. Tactical reinsertion? check. Torrent-of-fire? Check. Rapid-firing s5 ap4 gauss blasters at a unit (as well as shooting a s8 large blast from the monolith that brought you there) then warping to the other monolith or vodding somewhere else out of harm's way? epic. Don't put shooting units directly in the path of thunderhammer wolf riders, etc, let the wraiths tangle with those for awhile.
This is all contingent upon the playtest codex being identical to the released one, which we all know won't be the case. C'tan will be point costed differently, perhaps, maybe a statline change here or there (dreadknight comes to mind. Playtest version was way different than released one).
It's best to stave off any tactics-arguing until we've all seen the new book in living color (or in black and white, to be literal).
Exactly. I have no idea why people keep whining about this sort of thing. It's pretty self evident that Necrons aren't meant to assault through everything Orky-Style. They are meant to take out weak, small targets (like Spec Weapon squads, heavy weapons...pretty much anything that's not CC orientated), which is why they are generally pretty fast with decent strength and toughness but low I.
I think Necrons will be able to make Viable CC lists, however their CC is going to be something we new to 40k, right now a good CC unit has high initiative, lots of attacks, and a power weapon of some sort.
All of the Cron fighty units seem more like a TH/SS terminators mentality of ok swing first but it better be good because I'm tough as hell and swing back pretty hard.
Zachilles wrote:I think Necrons will be able to make Viable CC lists, however their CC is going to be something we new to 40k, right now a good CC unit has high initiative, lots of attacks, and a power weapon of some sort.
All of the Cron fighty units seem more like a TH/SS terminators mentality of ok swing first but it better be good because I'm tough as hell and swing back pretty hard.
I guess that would be the case...if they had high armor saves and high invul saves. And high S power weapons.
Lychguard get 4++ saves, true, but they are only S5 then, and I don't think it's a PW. They could be S7 with PW, but then they lose their invul. So TH/SS tactic doesn't really work that well for them.
Unless of course they charge something really weak or small, like FW or a Tac Squad.
Zachilles wrote:I think Necrons will be able to make Viable CC lists, however their CC is going to be something we new to 40k, right now a good CC unit has high initiative, lots of attacks, and a power weapon of some sort.
All of the Cron fighty units seem more like a TH/SS terminators mentality of ok swing first but it better be good because I'm tough as hell and swing back pretty hard.
I guess that would be the case...if they had high armor saves and high invul saves. And high S power weapons.
Lychguard get 4++ saves, true, but they are only S5 then, and I don't think it's a PW. They could be S7 with PW, but then they lose their invul. So TH/SS tactic doesn't really work that well for them.
Unless of course they charge something really weak or small, like FW or a Tac Squad.
The Hyperphase sword is a power weapon. Keep in mind that they have their 4++, then a 5+ to stand back up if they fail it. You can even turn it into a second 4+ with a Rez orb. I don't know the Math Hammer, but I think two 4+ is a tad bit better than a single 3+, but I could be wrong there.
As stated, i am not overly worried about the lack of CC transports as that is not what the Necrons are all about.
With a mix of Night Scythes and Monoliths we have the ability to quickly move unit around the table and set up potentially lether fields of fire.
Dont forget that if a unit of 10 warriors comes out of a monolith they can still fire gaus Flayers (assumgin they stay the same as they are now) 12" twice. Do this with 2 'liths and 1 Scythe (for example) the right way and you could unleash 60 S4 hits on a single uit with next to no warning at all. CC your way out of that!
Zachilles wrote:I think Necrons will be able to make Viable CC lists, however their CC is going to be something we new to 40k, right now a good CC unit has high initiative, lots of attacks, and a power weapon of some sort.
All of the Cron fighty units seem more like a TH/SS terminators mentality of ok swing first but it better be good because I'm tough as hell and swing back pretty hard.
I guess that would be the case...if they had high armor saves and high invul saves. And high S power weapons.
Lychguard get 4++ saves, true, but they are only S5 then, and I don't think it's a PW. They could be S7 with PW, but then they lose their invul. So TH/SS tactic doesn't really work that well for them.
Unless of course they charge something really weak or small, like FW or a Tac Squad.
The Hyperphase sword is a power weapon. Keep in mind that they have their 4++, then a 5+ to stand back up if they fail it. You can even turn it into a second 4+ with a Rez orb. I don't know the Math Hammer, but I think two 4+ is a tad bit better than a single 3+, but I could be wrong there.
It is? Well, that makes them pretty powerful then. Still, for 40+ pts a guy, I wouldn't have them pull of the sort of stunts that TH/SS termies do.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Praxiss wrote:As stated, i am not overly worried about the lack of CC transports as that is not what the Necrons are all about.
With a mix of Night Scythes and Monoliths we have the ability to quickly move unit around the table and set up potentially lether fields of fire.
Dont forget that if a unit of 10 warriors comes out of a monolith they can still fire gaus Flayers (assumgin they stay the same as they are now) 12" twice. Do this with 2 'liths and 1 Scythe (for example) the right way and you could unleash 60 S4 hits on a single uit with next to no warning at all. CC your way out of that!
Yep, and then you send in praetorians, wraiths and Lychguard to finish em' off.
Zachilles wrote:I think Necrons will be able to make Viable CC lists, however their CC is going to be something we new to 40k, right now a good CC unit has high initiative, lots of attacks, and a power weapon of some sort.
All of the Cron fighty units seem more like a TH/SS terminators mentality of ok swing first but it better be good because I'm tough as hell and swing back pretty hard.
I guess that would be the case...if they had high armor saves and high invul saves. And high S power weapons.
Lychguard get 4++ saves, true, but they are only S5 then, and I don't think it's a PW. They could be S7 with PW, but then they lose their invul. So TH/SS tactic doesn't really work that well for them.
Unless of course they charge something really weak or small, like FW or a Tac Squad.
The Hyperphase sword is a power weapon. Keep in mind that they have their 4++, then a 5+ to stand back up if they fail it. You can even turn it into a second 4+ with a Rez orb. I don't know the Math Hammer, but I think two 4+ is a tad bit better than a single 3+, but I could be wrong there.
Add to that the fact that the Lychguard and Praetorians are T5 to start with (i think) so they will suffer fewer wounds than a TH/SS Termiantor woudl in the first place.
This makes me think that Necrons will be a good shooty and counter-punch army.
Has it been determined if the Lycheguard and Praetorians are 1 or 2 wounds each? I'd imagine 2 each going by the fact that they're elites, 40 ppm, and the wraiths are 2 wounds at the same 40 points, while warriors and immortals are 12 and 17 points, respectively, yet only 1 wound each. A unit of 10 lycheguard coming from a monolith portal can be mighty hard to get rid of...especially considering you can point the door at a 45 degree angle, port the lyches, then move the monolith to block them from enemy LOS for a turn. the turn after that, lycheguard can get to work.
Zachilles wrote:I think Necrons will be able to make Viable CC lists, however their CC is going to be something we new to 40k, right now a good CC unit has high initiative, lots of attacks, and a power weapon of some sort.
All of the Cron fighty units seem more like a TH/SS terminators mentality of ok swing first but it better be good because I'm tough as hell and swing back pretty hard.
I guess that would be the case...if they had high armor saves and high invul saves. And high S power weapons.
Lychguard get 4++ saves, true, but they are only S5 then, and I don't think it's a PW. They could be S7 with PW, but then they lose their invul. So TH/SS tactic doesn't really work that well for them.
Unless of course they charge something really weak or small, like FW or a Tac Squad.
The Hyperphase sword is a power weapon. Keep in mind that they have their 4++, then a 5+ to stand back up if they fail it. You can even turn it into a second 4+ with a Rez orb. I don't know the Math Hammer, but I think two 4+ is a tad bit better than a single 3+, but I could be wrong there.
Add to that the fact that the Lychguard and Praetorians are T5 to start with (i think) so they will suffer fewer wounds than a TH/SS Termiantor woudl in the first place.
Ok ok so Lychguard are as good at CC as TH/SS termies then, you convince me.
Praxiss wrote:As stated, i am not overly worried about the lack of CC transports as that is not what the Necrons are all about.
With a mix of Night Scythes and Monoliths we have the ability to quickly move unit around the table and set up potentially lether fields of fire.
Dont forget that if a unit of 10 warriors comes out of a monolith they can still fire gaus Flayers (assumgin they stay the same as they are now) 12" twice. Do this with 2 'liths and 1 Scythe (for example) the right way and you could unleash 60 S4 hits on a single uit with next to no warning at all. CC your way out of that!
Wow, I forgot you could rapid fire coming out of the portal >.> Awesome.
assuming WS4 for the Lychguard they are extremely even, the Lychguard strikes first but the Terminator wounds him easier, both have almost the exact same save with a 3++ vs 4++ and 5++. Prolonged combat favors the terminator as the Lychguard would be swinging at the same time because of the thunderhammer.
This is also assuming the 1 lychguard gets to use Reanimation(Resurrection?) protocols which if it were a true 1on1 fight and he took a wound he would not
Zachilles wrote:assuming WS4 for the Lychguard they are extremely even, the Lychguard strikes first but the Terminator wounds him easier, both have almost the exact same save with a 3++ vs 4++ and 5++. Prolonged combat sees favors the terminator as the Lychguard would be swinging at the same time because of the thunderhammer.
Actually he would be striking first. Lychguard are I2, not I1
Zachilles wrote:assuming WS4 for the Lychguard they are extremely even, the Lychguard strikes first but the Terminator wounds him easier, both have almost the exact same save with a 3++ vs 4++ and 5++. Prolonged combat sees favors the terminator as the Lychguard would be swinging at the same time because of the thunderhammer.
Actually he would be striking first. Lychguard are I2, not I1
But in prolonged combat the TH reduces target's I to 1
Zachilles wrote:assuming WS4 for the Lychguard they are extremely even, the Lychguard strikes first but the Terminator wounds him easier, both have almost the exact same save with a 3++ vs 4++ and 5++. Prolonged combat sees favors the terminator as the Lychguard would be swinging at the same time because of the thunderhammer.
Actually he would be striking first. Lychguard are I2, not I1
But if he hits with the thunderhammer it makes them I1 for the next combat round.
I'm wanting to play a large chunk of shield+warsythe Lychguard, so I'm very interested in the Termi vs. Lych.
Zachilles wrote:assuming WS4 for the Lychguard they are extremely even, the Lychguard strikes first but the Terminator wounds him easier, both have almost the exact same save with a 3++ vs 4++ and 5++. Prolonged combat sees favors the terminator as the Lychguard would be swinging at the same time because of the thunderhammer.
Actually he would be striking first. Lychguard are I2, not I1
But if he hits with the thunderhammer it makes them I1 for the next combat round.
I'm wanting to play a large chunk of shield+warsythe Lychguard, so I'm very interested in the Termi vs. Lych.
Not sure you could take the Shield and a Warscythe. isn't the Warscythe a 2 handed weapon? You'd have to take the VoidBlades (i think).........Aren't they Entropic as well? So any wounds that didn't kill would also negate the terminators armour?
Zachilles wrote:assuming WS4 for the Lychguard they are extremely even, the Lychguard strikes first but the Terminator wounds him easier, both have almost the exact same save with a 3++ vs 4++ and 5++. Prolonged combat sees favors the terminator as the Lychguard would be swinging at the same time because of the thunderhammer.
Actually he would be striking first. Lychguard are I2, not I1
But if he hits with the thunderhammer it makes them I1 for the next combat round.
I'm wanting to play a large chunk of shield+warsythe Lychguard, so I'm very interested in the Termi vs. Lych.
Not sure you could take the Shield and a Warscythe. isn't the Warscythe a 2 handed weapon? You'd have to take the VoidBlades (i think).........Aren't they Entropic as well? So any wounds that didn't kill would also negate the terminators armour?
I am assuming he meant a Squad of Shields and a squad of scythes. Also, Lyches take Hyperphase swords, not voidblades.
Math Hammer wise, even without the res orb, 3++ is exactly equivalent to 4++ and an aditional 5+: 66%.
So, assume 5 TH/SS termies vs. 5 Hyperphase/Shield Lychgard,
First, Start with Worst Case Scenario: Termies get the charge.
Lyches hit first, at I2. Unsure of attack stat, but, assuming since their elite, 2 attacks each base.
10 attacks at a likely WS4, so, 5 hits.
5 hits at STR 5 vs T4, so, 3.33 power weapon wounds
3.33 Wounds makes 1.11 unsaved wounds
1 dead Termie average.
So, 4 termies left at I1, 2 attacks each with 1 more for the charge, 12 attacks
12 attacks at WS 4, makes 6 hits
6 hits at str 8 vs. T5 makes 5 wounds.
5 wounds with 4++ makes 2.5 unsaved wounds
Also, given the toughness of the models otherwise, assuming 1W each
2.5 models die, and termies win the combat by 1.38 wounds,
Necrons must make a leadership test VS 8 or 9, which they will on average win
2.5 x 1/3 is .8333 models stand back up (without res orb, as I haven't factored a Lord into the combat)
Zachilles wrote:assuming WS4 for the Lychguard they are extremely even, the Lychguard strikes first but the Terminator wounds him easier, both have almost the exact same save with a 3++ vs 4++ and 5++. Prolonged combat sees favors the terminator as the Lychguard would be swinging at the same time because of the thunderhammer.
Actually he would be striking first. Lychguard are I2, not I1
But if he hits with the thunderhammer it makes them I1 for the next combat round.
I'm wanting to play a large chunk of shield+warsythe Lychguard, so I'm very interested in the Termi vs. Lych.
Not sure you could take the Shield and a Warscythe. isn't the Warscythe a 2 handed weapon? You'd have to take the VoidBlades (i think).........Aren't they Entropic as well? So any wounds that didn't kill would also negate the terminators armour?
I am assuming he meant a Squad of Shields and a squad of scythes. Also, Lyches take Hyperphase swords, not voidblades.
Yeah a group of shield men in the front with scythes in the back. Would look awesome. That and with the special character (the honor one), give them furious charge.
Zachilles wrote:assuming WS4 for the Lychguard they are extremely even, the Lychguard strikes first but the Terminator wounds him easier, both have almost the exact same save with a 3++ vs 4++ and 5++. Prolonged combat sees favors the terminator as the Lychguard would be swinging at the same time because of the thunderhammer.
Actually he would be striking first. Lychguard are I2, not I1
But if he hits with the thunderhammer it makes them I1 for the next combat round.
I'm wanting to play a large chunk of shield+warsythe Lychguard, so I'm very interested in the Termi vs. Lych.
Not sure you could take the Shield and a Warscythe. isn't the Warscythe a 2 handed weapon? You'd have to take the VoidBlades (i think).........Aren't they Entropic as well? So any wounds that didn't kill would also negate the terminators armour?
I am assuming he meant a Squad of Shields and a squad of scythes. Also, Lyches take Hyperphase swords, not voidblades.
My bad, i was getting confused between them and the Praetorians.
I disappear for a day and I come back to see mathhammering... would you people quit trying to optimize things that haven't even been released and just enjoy the game already?
chaos0xomega wrote:I disappear for a day and I come back to see mathhammering... would you people quit trying to optimize things that haven't even been released and just enjoy the game already?
chaos0xomega wrote:I disappear for a day and I come back to see mathhammering... would you people quit trying to optimize things that haven't even been released and just enjoy the game already?
Well, seeing that these guys are pretty close to TH/SS termies for the same points actually helps me enjoy the codex a bit more. I had actually kinda discounted this unit for some time, now I'm actually pretty psyched that the baddass models actually have some potency to them.
Then again, The Termies are pretty good AT, whereas the Lyches can only pen transports on 6's. Welp, can't have everything.
KarlPedder wrote:Our transports are flimsy and we can't assault out of them and we can't assault out the Monolith and the only unit that can use the Ghost Ark that would be worth assaulting with will likely get FAQed into not being able to use it.
I'm still new to Warhammer 40k, but are these new transports really that flimsy? I play Orks right now, and our Trukks aren't exactly overpowered bastions of safety. I think the word ramshackle is even written in there somewhere. Rhinos and Chimeras don't strike me as mobile Storm Shields either. I admit I know little about Tau or Eldar armies, but it seems that a transport starting out with AV 13 plus the fact that it's a skimmer (which means it can basically hop over some terrain featuers insteady of having to go around, right?) puts Necrons ahead of many other transports. Well... other than things like Landraiders. That's not really a transport though as much as it is a tank with a chauffeur's license.
I dunno. Seems like a silly thing to say to me, but like I said, I'm new to this game still.
BTW, thanks to Kroot and Yak for giving us stuff to talk about instead of doing work!
chaos0xomega wrote:
I disappear for a day and I come back to see mathhammering... would you people quit trying to optimize things that haven't even been released and just enjoy the game already?
Different people enjoy the game different ways, crazy how that works
haroon wrote:So it is known that a Lynch guard shield only gives a 4++ nor a 3++? You would think necron tech would at least be as good as a strom shield.
I think it bounces enemy shooting back at other enemy units within 6" though. Very nasty if someone volleys you with lascannons/plasma to soften you up for a termi assualt and you bounce all that ap2 back at them!
haroon wrote:So it is known that a Lynch guard shield only gives a 4++ nor a 3++? You would think necron tech would at least be as good as a strom shield.
Well, it seems that Necrons are more vindictive in this case (not unsurprisingly). They seem to have sacrificed the possible 3++ save such a bit of tech could have for a 4++, in exchange for reflecting shots back onto their enemies. Not to mention that the 'crons can stand back up, and the head actuaries deemed 33% to be acceptable losses.
Zachilles wrote:and they can bounce shots back at people, so overall I say their tech is well above storm shields
I Guess but how often are you 6in away and not in combat? I guess it keeps your oppenet from shooting before he charges you.
If I was looking to charge a bunch of terminators, I'd want to lascannon/darklance/Rokkit/Dakkagun them first, to soften them up. The reflection effectively negates this shooting, or, turns the whole business into a multiturn maneuver, and tips the opponent's hand enough to be able to counter in the intervening turn, as troops that aren't beast/cav or fleet would need to be within 6, and would be easy targets for the kind of fire that'd be reflected.
chaos0xomega wrote:I disappear for a day and I come back to see mathhammering... would you people quit trying to optimize things that haven't even been released and just enjoy the game already?
It's amazing how many different ways there are to enjoy this hobby, and all of its facets. Would you quit condescending to people who don't think and enjoy things just like you?
chaos0xomega wrote:I disappear for a day and I come back to see mathhammering... would you people quit trying to optimize things that haven't even been released and just enjoy the game already?
It's amazing how many different ways there are to enjoy this hobby, and all of its facets. Would you quit condescending to people who don't think and enjoy things just like you?
True, but you don't agree that trying to mathhammer things that haven't even been released (and may not be accurate) is a bit. . .futile?
chaos0xomega wrote:I disappear for a day and I come back to see mathhammering... would you people quit trying to optimize things that haven't even been released and just enjoy the game already?
It's amazing how many different ways there are to enjoy this hobby, and all of its facets. Would you quit condescending to people who don't think and enjoy things just like you?
True, but you don't agree that trying to mathhammer things that haven't even been released (and may not be accurate) is a bit. . .futile?
It's all in good fun. Hold us over a little bit longer.
puma713 wrote:
True, but you don't agree that trying to mathhammer things that haven't even been released (and may not be accurate) is a bit. . .futile?
Not really - Yakface has given the essential stats, so running scenarios how that unit would fare against certain staple assault units that appear all the time is something that's no more futile than this entire thread.
puma713 wrote: True, but you don't agree that trying to mathhammer things that haven't even been released (and may not be accurate) is a bit. . .futile?
Generally any predictive model is already missing key variables that simplify scenarios being analysed.
Given the data we have from Yak it seems enough to run these simulations. (assuming you enjoy this type of thing)
Now data monkeys, I demand a 1MM monte carlo simulation! Mush!
masterofstuff1 wrote:Actually, i really want to know if anything else, besides tomb spiders, provides some kind of psychic defence!!!???
That would be nice. I was hoping we would get some nice anti-pyker abilities like before. The spyders give a 4+ hood on stuff that just targets them right? So there isn't any way for necrons to negate enchantment type powers? Hmmm.
puma713 wrote:
True, but you don't agree that trying to mathhammer things that haven't even been released (and may not be accurate) is a bit. . .futile?
puma713 wrote:
True, but you don't agree that trying to mathhammer things that haven't even been released (and may not be accurate) is a bit. . .futile?
Yakface has given the essential stats
From a playtest codex.
Why stop people from doing what they want? Mathhammer away!
puma713 wrote:
True, but you don't agree that trying to mathhammer things that haven't even been released (and may not be accurate) is a bit. . .futile?
Yakface has given the essential stats
From a playtest codex.
Why stop people from doing what they want? Mathhammer away!
Maybe the 'News and Rumours' thread isn't the place for Game Theory. That might have been where the original question came from.
puma713 wrote:
True, but you don't agree that trying to mathhammer things that haven't even been released (and may not be accurate) is a bit. . .futile?
Yakface has given the essential stats
From a playtest codex.
Why stop people from doing what they want? Mathhammer away!
Maybe the 'News and Rumours' thread isn't the place for Game Theory. That might have been where the original question came from.
It is mathhammering based on rumor and news. Sounds appropriate
Is there any way for a Overlord, Cryptek, or Lord to be Stubborn and/or give Fearless to the units they join? I just want one big unit of Warriors that won't get swept immediately by anything that touches them...
UltraPrime wrote:I'm with Puma - take it to the Tactics forum. I'm interested in news, not averages that never actually represent random die rolls anyway.
That's exactly what they do?
I'm also still wondering if the lords from the court can take destroyer bodies
UltraPrime wrote:I'm with Puma - take it to the Tactics forum. I'm interested in news, not averages that never actually represent random die rolls anyway.
Damn right, let's go back to insulting each other over our opinions on the new models, that was more fun than trying to figure out how the new units will work and perform.
UltraPrime wrote:I'm with Puma - take it to the Tactics forum. I'm interested in news, not averages that never actually represent random die rolls anyway.
Damn right, let's go back to insulting each other over our opinions on the new models, that was more fun than trying to figure out how the new units will work and perform.
I'm doubtful that large blocks of warriors are going to be worthwhile - they will still get swept at a glance.
You could put a overlord/lord in there to discourage it, but that doesn't seem worthwhile.
Putting guards in front with shields would be the best way - you soften up the unit coming in for the assault and finish off with power weapons and 4++ saves.
darkslife wrote:I'm doubtful that large blocks of warriors are going to be worthwhile - they will still get swept at a glance.
You could put a overlord/lord in there to discourage it, but that doesn't seem worthwhile.
Putting guards in front with shields would be the best way - you soften up the unit coming in for the assault and finish off with power weapons and 4++ saves.
Do as I do...use them as meat shield/holding up objectives.
We know they are not going to completely destroy a unit of termies but they are good to provide cover saves against a rain of bullets from an IG army. Also, in the case of vehicles, a scarab spam tactic would reduce AV considerably so the STR 4 rapid fire weapon could easily penetrate. 30 attacks on a 1+ and then on a 4+ to reduce AV we would be talking about -10(Give or Take) AV from the vehicle so we would be facing an AV 4 Land Raider(or Leman Russ).
If you mean infantry or horde armies just use monoliths. Thin down the enemy horde with rapid fire attacks and teleport them with the monolith when they are about to get whacked. There are many ways to improve suvivability with this new codex.
puma713 wrote:True, but you don't agree that trying to mathhammer things that haven't even been released (and may not be accurate) is a bit. . .futile?
As futile as giving unsolicited advice over the Internet?
Agreed - however, it all seems to be about combined arms.
As an example terminator armies do not really need external support. Everything they need to kill is inside the unit.
Imperial guard are similar in that in that everything they need is in the platoon (EG Commissars, officers, heavy weapons).
Necrons appear to rely on the royal court to add that flexibility to the units. It seems to be an intended design, as even named characters can take courts, and you can take more than 1 court.
Entropic strikes sound awesome, but its a 4+ at the end of the phase, and only spammable on close combat attacks.
This means those manticores up the back should be safe, and with doomsday arks on the board, you can be 100% sure they will be screened.
This means realistically, the scarabs will get there "maybe" turn 2 assault.
This is why yak is saying the stormlord is so incredible - he effects the enemy army.
Everything I take is going to focus on manoeuvre warfare - by targeting their superior movement/firepower, I plan to shape the battlefield to my plan.
The biggest drama I can see is drop pod assault armies, and grey knights/blood angels as they have a lot of very good special rules, and have better troops equipment etc.
Is it just me or should we see pre-orders up on the website tomorrow (saturday the 22nd)? Two weeks in advance is what they did with DE release isnt it?
I know you are being sarcastic, but this is the company that had a major trade exhibition in several countries about a month ago and did not say a word on this release.
darkslife wrote:I know you are being sarcastic, but this is the company that had a major trade exhibition in several countries about a month ago and did not say a word on this release.
Any one else notice the lack of update on the GW website that often mean that they have a special release time update event running. I.e. they have set up a timer to post the blog for them.
This could mean good things. We may be getting the necron confimation in the next GW Whats New Today blog thing.
Hey, I was curious. Does it look like there will be any sort of sit-back-and-shoot heavy weapon for either of the troops? The sort of thing you plink at tanks with while sitting on a home objective?
Or will we have to rely on Crypteks for that sort of thing?
kargenetic wrote:Hey, I was curious. Does it look like there will be any sort of sit-back-and-shoot heavy weapon for either of the troops? The sort of thing you plink at tanks with while sitting on a home objective?
Or will we have to rely on Crypteks for that sort of thing?
Nah doesn't look like it. Seems all the heavy stuff will be coming from vehicles.
We've roughly determined Praetorians pretty much tie TH terminators. The first thing that popped out at me as good for taking on TH terminators in this codex was actually wraiths.
They should get the charge off, the wound on a 2+, have more attacks, and with a 3+ inv and a 5+ resurection they are definitly more durable the TH.
So if someone would do the math I think you would find that wraiths are the best counter to TH that is coming out in the next codex.
I'm kinda sad to see the old fluff go, but the new fluff seems to have room for the old fluff in it.
Not a fan of the Lychgaurd heads, but their weapons are BOSS. I like the main bodies of the Praetorians but I'm not liking the weapons... hmm... a bit of convertin' may be in the future...
I think the finecast overlord does look a bit tomb kings-ey, but he's still awesome.
Slayersan wrote:For all those math wizards out there...
We've roughly determined Praetorians pretty much tie TH terminators. The first thing that popped out at me as good for taking on TH terminators in this codex was actually wraiths.
They should get the charge off, the wound on a 2+, have more attacks, and with a 3+ inv and a 5+ resurection they are definitly more durable the TH.
So if someone would do the math I think you would find that wraiths are the best counter to TH that is coming out in the next codex.
Ok...So Lychguard and praetorians are for tying up/distracting Termies, whereas Wraiths are good at killing them then?
StringBassKnight wrote:I'm really liking what I see.
I'm kinda sad to see the old fluff go, but the new fluff seems to have room for the old fluff in it.
Not a fan of the Lychgaurd heads, but their weapons are BOSS. I like the main bodies of the Praetorians but I'm not liking the weapons... hmm... a bit of convertin' may be in the future...
I think the finecast overlord does look a bit tomb kings-ey, but he's still awesome.
Oh, and I love those vehicles.
I may have to abandon my Orks for a while...
Well, supposedly Lychguard and praetorians come in the same box, so you could always do a head swap.
medd wrote:Late to the party... but I think most of those new Necrons look TERRIBLE.
You say 'most', but not all... Which do you like then?
The snipers and the immortals look good. The lords and melee units look... passable, I suppose. I'm particularly put off by the vehicles. Also, the flayed ones are disappointing to me. The flayed ones look like beggers looking for scraps of food.
medd wrote:Late to the party... but I think most of those new Necrons look TERRIBLE.
You say 'most', but not all... Which do you like then?
The snipers and the immortals look good. The lords and melee units look... passable, I suppose. I'm particularly put off by the vehicles. Also, the flayed ones are disappointing to me. The flayed ones look like beggers looking for scraps of food.
Yeah, I think the new Flayed Ones are probably unanimously hated. I do agree that the transports do look a bit derpy, but at least it looks like you won't have to field them (though it would be cool to use the night scythe, but anyway). Now how to fix those stupid upside-down flayers on the Doom Ark...
On the Canadian GW site, all existing Necron units are still up, but the following cannot be added to your shopping cart anymore: Battleforce, Flayed Ones, Pariahs, Warriors, Wraiths and Tomb Spyders. I find it somewhat strange that Immortals can still be purchased individually when they are about to be released in rumoured boxed of 5, whereas Flayed Ones, which are rumoured to be the same cannot. And I find it very, very odd that basic Warriors can no longer be purchased in any way. Can anyone else make sense of this?
Slayersan wrote:For all those math wizards out there...
We've roughly determined Praetorians pretty much tie TH terminators. The first thing that popped out at me as good for taking on TH terminators in this codex was actually wraiths.
They should get the charge off, the wound on a 2+, have more attacks, and with a 3+ inv and a 5+ resurection they are definitly more durable the TH.
So if someone would do the math I think you would find that wraiths are the best counter to TH that is coming out in the next codex.
Wraiths are now reportedly 2W and fearless now. That makes them great against a lot of units but marginalizes them against TH/SS.
For example, if the wraiths get the charge, they average ~1.667 wounds and the remaining 3-4 terminators average ~0.930 wounds back, causing 2 total wounds. Wraiths have to take 1 No retreat save before getting the 5+ res attempt. It is worse if the terminators get the charge (1.25 unsaved terminator wounds, 1.5 X 2 wraiths).
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:The Praetorians are jump infantry. They have...things on their back. Is there any indication in the fluff about what those are? Are they really Necron jump pack equivalents, or are they like the Warp Spider packs?
The Necron law-enforcers flying around with jetpacks? Not cool. Teleporting out of nowhere to judge and execute? Freaking awesome.
They are mentioned in the fluff as being 'gravity displacement packs' (although its not a named piece of gear or anything) and the fluff basically says that Praetorians rarely fight in the initial wave of combat but instead use their packs to hover above the fray and watch carefully for where their intercession will have the most impact, but also to observe the foe looking for truly honorable foes.
See, "Worthy" would make sense. No sense wasting your skills against peons. But "Honorable?" I thought you guys were trying to assure me that the "honorable warrior" was just a special character...?
I could be wrong I dont use multi wound models much, but it was commented that in wraiths vr TH termys that the .9 wound the termys would do to the wraiths would result in loss of 2 wounds making them lose combat and take no retreat wounds. Since wraiths are multiwound does that 1 wound that instant deaths actually count as 2 wounds for losing combat? I thought it only counted as 1 wound for combat resolution purposes? If it does count as 2 wounds then sadly my wraiths fighting TH would be a bad idea.
Pre-orders go up for new releases on the last Saturday of the month, ie; Next Saturday the 29th October.
This coincides with the release of White Dwarf which is when everyone is meant to be able to 'officially' see the new models for the first time, and pre-order accordingly.
Then the actual release date is a week later on the first Saturday of the following month ie; November 5th.
So don't expect any official announcements of Necrons until Midnight next Friday/Saturday morning when 'Whats New Today' is updated on the GW website with the pre-orders.
The update missing today probably concerns the few new Black Library books released today including the new Zhorus Heresy novel, the HH audio book gift/boxed set and the cool new artwork book.
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:The Praetorians are jump infantry. They have...things on their back. Is there any indication in the fluff about what those are? Are they really Necron jump pack equivalents, or are they like the Warp Spider packs?
The Necron law-enforcers flying around with jetpacks? Not cool. Teleporting out of nowhere to judge and execute? Freaking awesome.
They are mentioned in the fluff as being 'gravity displacement packs' (although its not a named piece of gear or anything) and the fluff basically says that Praetorians rarely fight in the initial wave of combat but instead use their packs to hover above the fray and watch carefully for where their intercession will have the most impact, but also to observe the foe looking for truly honorable foes.
See, "Worthy" would make sense. No sense wasting your skills against peons. But "Honorable?" I thought you guys were trying to assure me that the "honorable warrior" was just a special character...?
Crap...you have a point there. Well, when they were still living they were meant to be like the honor guard or secret police of the Grand Overlord or whatever. But it's kinda dumb.
At least they are nowhere near as good as their lychguard counterparts...and Wraiths, who are MUCH better CC jump infantry.
Yeah so GW front page is plastered with a 300 dollar paint set which is perfect for "painting a whole army of miniatures or a single hero to lead your troops into battle". Couldn't remember the last time I needed a 300 dollar paint set to paint a hero but if the GW says it it must be true. Doubting anything on necrons will hit their site today.
Hox wrote:Yeah so GW front page is plastered with a 300 dollar paint set which is perfect for "painting a whole army of miniatures or a single hero to lead your troops into battle". Couldn't remember the last time I needed a 300 dollar paint set to paint a hero but if the GW says it it must be true. Doubting anything on necrons will hit their site today.
Yeah...it's as if they spend all their time releasing useless gimmicky crap instead of something, you know, interesting.
They spent the last month yapping about Dreadfleet...which was lame. And now they are trying to sell a 300 dollar paint set...which no one will get because it's pointless.
And all while everyone has been waiting for
a) new models (Like half the Nid codex)
b) New rules (like Necrons/SoB)
Hox wrote:Yeah so GW front page is plastered with a 300 dollar paint set which is perfect for "painting a whole army of miniatures or a single hero to lead your troops into battle". Couldn't remember the last time I needed a 300 dollar paint set to paint a hero but if the GW says it it must be true. Doubting anything on necrons will hit their site today.
Yeah...it's as if they spend all their time releasing useless gimmicky crap instead of something, you know, interesting.
They spent the last month yapping about Dreadfleet...which was lame. And now they are trying to sell a 300 dollar paint set...which no one will get because it's pointless.
And all while everyone has been waiting for
a) new models (Like half the Nid codex)
b) New rules (like Necrons/SoB)
You know, stuff that matters.
Oh you would be surprised how many times I needed off yellow, pink and orange for my silver necrons and there is a good saying, "never leave home without 18 different foundation colors". I think the older you get, the truer it becomes.
29th sounds right and ties in with the one week preorder madness. Time seems to have slowed down for me. I'm going to have to find something else to do to take my mind of it. Argh!
ouch, stormlord seems kind of nasty especially with that lightning strike madness each turn.
I can see some messed up group fights when necron + dark eldar with night shields...
I fear for my gunline IG now. May have to start getting some search light bits and incorporate suicide scout sentinels
Also instant death possibilities for a paladin based army can really suck. They trying to kill off all my solo'dins! Not to mention kind of anti-MSU there too.
Slayersan wrote:I could be wrong I dont use multi wound models much, but it was commented that in wraiths vr TH termys that the .9 wound the termys would do to the wraiths would result in loss of 2 wounds making them lose combat and take no retreat wounds. Since wraiths are multiwound does that 1 wound that instant deaths actually count as 2 wounds for losing combat? I thought it only counted as 1 wound for combat resolution purposes? If it does count as 2 wounds then sadly my wraiths fighting TH would be a bad idea.
if a model is insta-gibbed by one attack but has multiple wounds, combat resolution is counted as having lost "all" the wounds that were still present on the model (meaning, a 3 wound model with 1 left and is "instant deathed" would not count as losing 3 wounds). This is why scarabs suck against Str 6+ melee characters because 1 wound = 3 wounds for combat resolution.
Nagashek wrote:
See, "Worthy" would make sense. No sense wasting your skills against peons. But "Honorable?" I thought you guys were trying to assure me that the "honorable warrior" was just a special character...?
The Praetorians were the Necrons responsible for keeping the hierarchy and traditions of the empire alive and well. They are the epitome of 'honorable' warriors according to the fluff.
As I mentioned before, since the reawakening they are trying to re-unify the empire by traveling from Tomb World to Tomb World trying to get Overlords to pledge their willingness to rejoin a new Necron empire and the Praetorians stay on to help ensure that the Tomb World is proceeding properly under this goal.
But being extremely honorable, the Praetorians do look for other opponents worthy of being treated honorable and when they find them, they'll sometimes even order an Overlord to give those enemies the benefit of being treated honorably in combat. The fluff then says that most Overlords don't like it, but they'll often follow the orders simply because the Praetorians are a useful enough force that they don't want to piss them off into leaving and no longer fighting with the Tomb World.
So yes, in general most Necron Overlords believe that all aliens aren't worthy of being treated with honor. It is only the Praetorians (and one crazy special character) that are noted as behaving otherwise.
Yakface, anyone really, can the stormlord's lightning strikes happen in the first turn of the game under his forcing night fighting or does it only happen on turn 2 and later?
l0k1 wrote:Yakface, anyone really, can the stormlord's lightning strikes happen in the first turn of the game under his forcing night fighting or does it only happen on turn 2 and later?
Any turn the night fighting rules are in effect the Stormlord's lightning strikes occur during Necron Shooting phases. The only exception to this is when the Night Fighting is created by Solar Pulses.
Nagashek wrote:
See, "Worthy" would make sense. No sense wasting your skills against peons. But "Honorable?" I thought you guys were trying to assure me that the "honorable warrior" was just a special character...?
The Praetorians were the Necrons responsible for keeping the hierarchy and traditions of the empire alive and well. They are the epitome of 'honorable' warriors according to the fluff.
As I mentioned before, since the reawakening they are trying to re-unify the empire by traveling from Tomb World to Tomb World trying to get Overlords to pledge their willingness to rejoin a new Necron empire and the Praetorians stay on to help ensure that the Tomb World is proceeding properly under this goal.
But being extremely honorable, the Praetorians do look for other opponents worthy of being treated honorable and when they find them, they'll sometimes even order an Overlord to give those enemies the benefit of being treated honorably in combat. The fluff then says that most Overlords don't like it, but they'll often follow the orders simply because the Praetorians are a useful enough force that they don't want to piss them off into leaving and no longer fighting with the Tomb World.
So yes, in general most Necron Overlords believe that all aliens aren't worthy of being treated with honor. It is only the Praetorians (and one crazy special character) that are noted as behaving otherwise.
So are the Praetorians specifically minions of Mr. Honor Pants, or just sufficiently independant subjects that happen to think like him in terms of enemy treatment and a remaining sence of mercy? And in terms of Honor, what do we mean here? They waive off their companions in order to fight mano y mano with worthy warriors? They offer surrenders and honor ceasefires? They take POW's? I mean, we do lack an army of Klingons in the grim darkness of the far future, but it seems strange to find them in the Necrons...
Nagashek wrote: See, "Worthy" would make sense. No sense wasting your skills against peons. But "Honorable?" I thought you guys were trying to assure me that the "honorable warrior" was just a special character...?
The Praetorians were the Necrons responsible for keeping the hierarchy and traditions of the empire alive and well. They are the epitome of 'honorable' warriors according to the fluff.
As I mentioned before, since the reawakening they are trying to re-unify the empire by traveling from Tomb World to Tomb World trying to get Overlords to pledge their willingness to rejoin a new Necron empire and the Praetorians stay on to help ensure that the Tomb World is proceeding properly under this goal.
But being extremely honorable, the Praetorians do look for other opponents worthy of being treated honorable and when they find them, they'll sometimes even order an Overlord to give those enemies the benefit of being treated honorably in combat. The fluff then says that most Overlords don't like it, but they'll often follow the orders simply because the Praetorians are a useful enough force that they don't want to piss them off into leaving and no longer fighting with the Tomb World.
So yes, in general most Necron Overlords believe that all aliens aren't worthy of being treated with honor. It is only the Praetorians (and one crazy special character) that are noted as behaving otherwise.
So are the Praetorians specifically minions of Mr. Honor Pants, or just sufficiently independant subjects that happen to think like him in terms of enemy treatment and a remaining sence of mercy? And in terms of Honor, what do we mean here? They waive off their companions in order to fight mano y mano with worthy warriors? They offer surrenders and honor ceasefires? They take POW's? I mean, we do lack an army of Klingons in the grim darkness of the far future, but it seems strange to find them in the Necrons...
No, they're the servants of the Silent King, the overall ruler of the Necrons, they enforced his will upon the other Lords. They've kept their pre-hibernation attitude because, well, they never slept. Whilst they work with other Lords, they aren't servants. I guess the only master they have is the Silent King, who went into exile.
What i would like to think is that the Praetorians see a "honorable" guy and say hey, he deserves better than just to be flayed alive by a random warrior, then they swoop down and kill the guy....better to be killed by a higher up than by the lowly warrior.
Looking good. I hope to hear more about Szeras, since he put the Necrons in their current state. Does he feel Guilty? or does he Like being in an Immortal body. His Augments also sounds quite cool.
yakface wrote:Any turn the night fighting rules are in effect the Stormlord's lightning strikes occur during Necron Shooting phases. The only exception to this is when the Night Fighting is created by Solar Pulses.
Has it been confirmed that Praetorians and Lycheguard are only 1 Wound apiece? Why are wraiths 2W each, then? It seems that wraiths are the must-take unit with no consideration for the others if that is truly the case, seeing as how they have higher S, more A, a better invuln save, and more wounds than their fast/elite competitors...
tetrisphreak wrote:Has it been confirmed that Praetorians and Lycheguard are only 1 Wound apiece? Why are wraiths 2W each, then? It seems that wraiths are the must-take unit with no consideration for the others if that is truly the case, seeing as how they have higher S, more A, a better invuln save, and more wounds than their fast/elite competitors...
Wraiths have massive slot competition in the form of scarabs...
Praetorians, with Jump Infantry movement, seem quite decent, to me at least...
tetrisphreak wrote:Has it been confirmed that Praetorians and Lycheguard are only 1 Wound apiece? Why are wraiths 2W each, then? It seems that wraiths are the must-take unit with no consideration for the others if that is truly the case, seeing as how they have higher S, more A, a better invuln save, and more wounds than their fast/elite competitors...
Wraiths have massive slot competition in the form of scarabs...
Praetorians, with Jump Infantry movement, seem quite decent, to me at least...
They are also more expensive, and only have rending, not power weapons.
Wraiths are still exceptionally good though. We'll just have to see if Scarabs are such a huge must take. I'm hoping we have enough Anti-Tank throughout the Army to compensate, because I'd really like to take Wraiths.
4++/5+ reflecting shield w/ Power Weapons Melee unit. Term Equivs for Necrons.
Walker (11+quantum shielding) armed with heavy 2 (24/12)" melta ...or a flamer vs hordes.
Whats its melee stats?
Ghost Arc + Warrior Squads
Nice Combo to hold objectives no?
Scarabs are fleet now, can Charge 12" and a move through terrain more easily. (Beast Rules)
I am noticing alot of short ranges on the weapons. :/ i feel like we are being teased like SoB. You are a shooty army but to be good at it you have to be in charge range.
I went to the Memphis battle bunker warehouse. They had a tour of how they make the models and ship them it was really cool to see it all. I also saw a ton of pallets filled with necrons. SO MANY boxes! It had to easily be a thousand for sure. It was just funny we walked by them and the sale guy did not even care.
Oh, Yakface, something I've been curious about; the Flayed Ones... Do they still have anything resembling their "Terrifying Visage" special rule they had previously?
Blink wrote:Oh, Yakface, something I've been curious about; the Flayed Ones... Do they still have anything resembling their "Terrifying Visage" special rule they had previously?
Considering how they look I'd bet yes, except the enemy is incapacitated from laughing at how silly they look
Blink wrote:Oh, Yakface, something I've been curious about; the Flayed Ones... Do they still have anything resembling their "Terrifying Visage" special rule they had previously?
Considering how they look I'd bet yes, except the enemy is incapacitated from laughing at how silly they look
A one week window for advance orders seems pretty short though doesn't it? that's how long it takes to ship stuff out here even if they do ship it the day after you order
Robbietobbie wrote:A one week window for advance orders seems pretty short though doesn't it? that's how long it takes to ship stuff out here even if they do ship it the day after you order
Believe me, no one is debating how stupid it is. This is their new policy though. I miss when we could walk into the FLGS and thumb through the Codex, and check out the Black Box.
I was ganna say that the wraiths dont have power wepons but some else ninja'd
So what i will say is that its just really cool to have the option what if my fast attack is already filled with scarabs and destroyers and the command barge(i think its fast attack?) but you still want something to watch your flanks then the Praetorians will be exactly what you need
Im really digging the flex power of the new Dex which is what i wanted most outta it
i can make a list off the top of my head from my current book now i can really think about it
Robbietobbie wrote:A one week window for advance orders seems pretty short though doesn't it? that's how long it takes to ship stuff out here even if they do ship it the day after you order
Believe me, no one is debating how stupid it is. This is their new policy though. I miss when we could walk into the FLGS and thumb through the Codex, and check out the Black Box.
Isn't that basically what we are doing with this thread. Getting a teaser for the book, talking with friends about it and then buying for our selves later?
Robbietobbie wrote:A one week window for advance orders seems pretty short though doesn't it? that's how long it takes to ship stuff out here even if they do ship it the day after you order
Believe me, no one is debating how stupid it is. This is their new policy though. I miss when we could walk into the FLGS and thumb through the Codex, and check out the Black Box.
Isn't that basically what we are doing with this thread. Getting a teaser for the book, talking with friends about it and then buying for our selves later?
It's a leak. If GW's plan held true, none of this would be shown until next week, and we would likely have a lot less info, no unit stats, character fluff, no new rules, so thank Kroot, yakface, and all the others who found all this out or at least consolidated it, else we'd have nothing to talk about.
Robbietobbie wrote:A one week window for advance orders seems pretty short though doesn't it? that's how long it takes to ship stuff out here even if they do ship it the day after you order
Believe me, no one is debating how stupid it is. This is their new policy though. I miss when we could walk into the FLGS and thumb through the Codex, and check out the Black Box.
Isn't that basically what we are doing with this thread. Getting a teaser for the book, talking with friends about it and then buying for our selves later?
It's a leak. If GW's plan held true, none of this would be shown until next week, and we would likely have a lot less info, no unit stats, character fluff, no new rules, so thank Kroot, yakface, and all the others who found all this out or at least consolidated it, else we'd have nothing to talk about.
Anyone else find it funny that of all the races in 40k Necrons have a suprisingly good shot at being named the most honourable, agreeable, and dare I say good? All thanks to those Praetorians.
Im thinking first game aginst my friends bust out the Stormlord tactic with the Ctan danger zone terrian tactic(patent pending*) along with the cryptek guns that make the next movement phase difficult I.E. dangerous terrain
Cheese-tastic i know but i want them to meet the new boss
of course i will not likely run those tactics alot i like to stir the pot with different things also doing that i could probably only get away with in a 2000+ point game
EDIT: Side note I am thinking putting some lychgaurd shields on the side of the ghost ark might look sick
A bit late on the discussion, but the lychguard with shields and powerweapons are good, they will be an absolute beast unit if you join in a destroyer lord with res orb
Preferred Enemy and St7 powerweapon hell yea that will do it, even vehicles arent save for this guy, and if its to much av just have the scarabs eat a bit of it...
The unit then goes to having T5(T6 for the destroyer lord?) and 4++ and 4++ repair protocolls, juk, these guys will beat face... and then again seeing you can get them where you need with a fighter or through monolith portals, i like it a lot...
It'll still be T5 unless you have 50% or more of the squad as Destroyer Lords. Hopefully you can put mundane Lords on Destroyer bodies; being hidden in the squad seems like the safest place for one.
Sasori wrote:Depending on the Points cost, you can take a Regular Overlord with a Warscythe, Phase shifter, and Rez orb.
That would be quite the punch, and I think quite superior to the Destroyer lord, who can't take the 3++.
Yah i think the lord with a rez orb is almost a must I mean they can do it themselves fine but i think why not help them stay up and pack a lil more punch of cousre not sure of the point cost of all that but in the end my rez orbs will probably go with high cost units even tho it is equally important to keep scoring troops alive but i guess i would hope thats what the lychgaurd were doing anyways (I hope)
It would be neat if the rez orb helped any friendly units locked in the same CC as long as within 6 inchs but im sure thats not in the cards
Sabet wrote:So they will definitely be announced 29th??? I'll be very sad if they don't. I'm sad enough their not being announced tomorrow :(
I have to say, I really hope GW knows what they are doing with not allowing pre-orders until the saturday before the release. They won't get them shipped out that day and there is no shipping sunday. So they won't even be shipping out until monday. And that is just when they give it to the delivery service. that gives the actual shipping company tuesday-saturday to get it to you. And I don't believe GW pays extra for saturday delivery. I expect a lot of people who pre order to be very disappointed when their order doesn't come until the following monday. I am highly likely to just go into my LGS instead so that I can get it and not pay shipping for a later delivery.
Sabet wrote:So they will definitely be announced 29th??? I'll be very sad if they don't. I'm sad enough their not being announced tomorrow :(
I have to say, I really hope GW knows what they are doing with not allowing pre-orders until the saturday before the release. They won't get them shipped out that day and there is no shipping sunday. So they won't even be shipping out until monday. And that is just when they give it to the delivery service. that gives the actual shipping company tuesday-saturday to get it to you. And I don't believe GW pays extra for saturday delivery. I expect a lot of people who pre order to be very disappointed when their order doesn't come until the following monday. I am highly likely to just go into my LGS instead so that I can get it and not pay shipping for a later delivery.
Sasori wrote:Depending on the Points cost, you can take a Regular Overlord with a Warscythe, Phase shifter, and Rez orb.
That would be quite the punch, and I think quite superior to the Destroyer lord, who can't take the 3++.
Yah i think the lord with a rez orb is almost a must I mean they can do it themselves fine but i think why not help them stay up and pack a lil more punch of cousre not sure of the point cost of all that but in the end my rez orbs will probably go with high cost units even tho it is equally important to keep scoring troops alive but i guess i would hope thats what the lychgaurd were doing anyways (I hope)
It would be neat if the rez orb helped any friendly units locked in the same CC as long as within 6 inchs but im sure thats not in the cards
Yak has already specified that the Rez orb only affects the unit it is attached to.
The last few sets of pre-orders explicitly stated they will not be shipped until the monday FOLLOWING release date. The only way to guarantee getting pre-orders on release day is to get them in store.
Sabet wrote:So they will definitely be announced 29th??? I'll be very sad if they don't. I'm sad enough their not being announced tomorrow :(
I have to say, I really hope GW knows what they are doing with not allowing pre-orders until the saturday before the release. They won't get them shipped out that day and there is no shipping sunday. So they won't even be shipping out until monday. And that is just when they give it to the delivery service. that gives the actual shipping company tuesday-saturday to get it to you. And I don't believe GW pays extra for saturday delivery. I expect a lot of people who pre order to be very disappointed when their order doesn't come until the following monday. I am highly likely to just go into my LGS instead so that I can get it and not pay shipping for a later delivery.
If you Pre-order something to be delivered to your house, it will not arrive until the week after release. They have been quite clear on this, and they want you to have it delivered to the store where it will be available to collect on release day. This way they get you into the store and are more likely to spend more money while you're there.
You've just proved that they are right by saying that you may just go to the store on release day, as this is exactly what they want you to do!
I have a half decent army already with some other bits on the way i just got through Swap Shop. Once it all arrives i will have:
D.Lord with Warsythe Foot Lord Deceiver Nightbringer 60 warriors 4 Immortals 3 Pariahs (Crypteks) 3 Wraiths 8 Destroyers (+1 heavy Destroyer) 16 Scarab Swarms 1 Tomb Spider 2 Monoliths
I will try playing my Foot Lord as different special characters before i make a firm decsion on which one to get. But so far i am liking the StormLord (shocker!). Also favouring Lychguard over the Praetorians. For some reason i just dont tend to do very well with Jump infantry, plus i like the look of the shields.
Sabet wrote:So they will definitely be announced 29th??? I'll be very sad if they don't. I'm sad enough their not being announced tomorrow :(
I have to say, I really hope GW knows what they are doing with not allowing pre-orders until the saturday before the release. They won't get them shipped out that day and there is no shipping sunday. So they won't even be shipping out until monday. And that is just when they give it to the delivery service. that gives the actual shipping company tuesday-saturday to get it to you. And I don't believe GW pays extra for saturday delivery. I expect a lot of people who pre order to be very disappointed when their order doesn't come until the following monday. I am highly likely to just go into my LGS instead so that I can get it and not pay shipping for a later delivery.
If you Pre-order something to be delivered to your house, it will not arrive until the week after release. They have been quite clear on this, and they want you to have it delivered to the store where it will be available to collect on release day. This way they get you into the store and are more likely to spend more money while you're there.
You've just proved that they are right by saying that you may just go to the store on release day, as this is exactly what they want you to do!
Well that is a horrible way of doing business. Looks like GW loses out as I will be pre ordering elsewhere(and likely at discount). And since I don't have a GW in about 700 miles from my house my LGS won't be one. oh well this thread isn't about terrible GW policies. My shopping list for pre orders
Codex
Lychguard
Immortals.
Overlord
I only have my single group of 8 immortals that I ran in my list so upgrading it to a 10 man squad and having the 3 bodies+bits from the two kits should give me enough to work out some royal guard. I love the new overlord, he looks so good he could very well be a special character. And then I can get my unit of lychguard up and running.
From there I will decide if I am going mechanized or not. If so then at the toward of the month after I have played my heart out of skyrim I will start picking up some vehicles.
IcedAnimal, you aren't the primary demographic for them in that regard. Fact is, the LGS has to purchase the stuff from GW anyway, so they don't lose all that much in that regard.
They have other merchandise to push (Dreadfleet and now the paint set), so they can hold off on the army which will have eventual purchases regardless if they're spur of the moment.
So cool the jets on calling things "terrible" policies and being hyper critical.
Blink wrote:IcedAnimal, you aren't the primary demographic for them in that regard. Fact is, the LGS has to purchase the stuff from GW anyway, so they don't lose all that much in that regard.
They have other merchandise to push (Dreadfleet and now the paint set), so they can hold off on the army which will have eventual purchases regardless if they're spur of the moment.
So cool the jets on calling things "terrible" policies and being hyper critical.
Maybe you missed out on something but everyone is pretty pissed at GW for this. Do you know a single company in existence that wont even say a word about a release two weeks away? Its bad publicity for GW and they are losing customers because of it. Pushing dreadfleet and a 300 dollar paint set? I bet there are huge markets for those. Before you decide to put your opinion on everybody else maybe you should read all the posts in the thread you are commenting in. Its people that are willing to sit back and take it that let GW charge 120 dollars for 5 knights.
I probably won't buy any models until I have done a good review of the Codex, but here is what I think my list will end up
1 Stormlord
1 Overlord, The model looks too fantastic to pass up.
Maybe Trazyn.
2 Boxes of Lychguard/Praetorians. 5 Will likely be converted to Lords/Crypteks. Then I have a Ton of bits to mess with.
1 Command Barge, MAYBE 2 if the points cost is fair. Will be made into command Barges.
4 of the Ark Kits. 2 for Doomsday, and 2 for Ghost Arks. I have a feeling I'll be using at least 2 Ghost Arks, and I'd really like to field 2 Doomsday Cannons.
The I'll finish up with boxes of immortals. I'm quite happy to be rid of my metal Immortals, with the new plastic ones.
Of course this is speculation on my part. I'll have the codex long before I purchase any units.
I like the Praetorian fluff, but they're the type of unit I never field :(
Once I pay 40 points for a model, I want more than a single wound and no invulnerable save. Especially since with the Necrons, you can have these things for roughly the same price.
Do Scrabas get Entropic Strike included in their price (which i'm guessing will remain around the 12 point mark?) or do you have to pay extra like you did with Disruption Fields?
i think it's safe to say that Scarabs will be my new go-to unit. How to kill my friends annoying Ragnar Blackmain model? Whack it with 40 attacks, if he failes even 1 armour save his armour gets eaten!
Praxiss wrote:Isn't that the LychGuard (who only get the invul save if you give them the shield).
Also, doesn't the new WBB essentially work the same way as a 5++? You just dont get it is the unit is wiped out or fallign back?
From what I understand, it is pretty much an Invul save. You make it at the end of every phase too, so in that way it's also a lot better than WBB. It's a lot harder to wipe out a unit, in a single phase. I Could be wrong, but I think they still get it as long as they are falling back and Don't get swept.
CODEX! *derp*
1 Overlord
1 SC (haven't decided which yet, probably "Mind-taker" though)
2 Ghost Arks
3 Boxes of Lychguard (for a unit of 10 + bitz for Crypteks)
2 boxes of Immortals (Tesla weaponry all the way, I love having a unit using guns named after someone portrayed by David Bowie)
Umm...there will be more, but that's all I can think of for now. Probably a command barge or two.
JohnnoM wrote:if it is an invo, then do they get it and an invo?
It's not an Invul save, but you can take it against almost everything, which is why people are comparing it to an Invul save. I also see no reason why you couldn't take an Invul save, and the Protocol since a model has to be removed as a casualty before you take the Protocol save.
- Codex (!!!)
- Overlord
- 1 box of Immortals (Deathmarks bits will make Deathmarks out of many Warrior bodies I have left)
- 1 box of Pretorians (Lychguard /w Shields will be made in same manner as above)
Rest will have to wait until I have full grasp of new rules / units etc...
Reanimation Protocols (new WBB) seems to be an invul save of 5++, but as it is not ACTUALLY a "proper" invul save i see no reason why a Lord for example could have a 3++ (from Phase Shifter i think?), fail that and then (assumign the hit killed him or took his last wound) at the end of the phase roll for a 5+ to get back up with 1 wound.
So a Lord could be, i believe T5 S5, with a 3+/3++/5++ save !!!! muwhahahahahahaha.
If it helps, try thinking of it is an uber version of FNP on a 5+.
Hah, now if you could only get him a 2+ armour save, he'd hands-down be the most durable character in the game.
Good thing about Destroyers = jump infantry, Necron destroyer lords can join units with impunity, right? Jump infantry can join normal infantry, right?
I suppose so. Plus Destroyers now get preferred enemy on everyone! So re-rolls to hit for your D.Lord. Just a shame it doens't carry over to shooting as well (yet).
One day, Praxiss, one day. Those jerks at Radioshack said I was mad when I told them my plans for creating a race of robotic killers! Well who's MAD NOW? AH HAH HAH HAH HAH
I might have to consider the ship to store option if I'm unlikely to see my order for a week otherwise. Loving all the new models, but am really looking forward to the new wraiths, hopefully in the second wave. It's the codex my 6K of current crons are desperate for though.
The stuff i'm getting upon release will probably be:
-Codex (duh)
-Overlord (love the model and my only current lord is a destroyer one)
-Immortals
-Lychguard (maybe, gotta see how my bank account is doing by that time, silly college books)
Praxiss wrote:I suppose so. Plus Destroyers now get preferred enemy on everyone! So re-rolls to hit for your D.Lord. Just a shame it doens't carry over to shooting as well (yet).
The question is, is that Preferred enemy worth sacrificing an Invul save for? Esp when you can take the Command Barge for the Lord? In my opinion now, it isn't. My opinion may change with the Overall points cost though, of course.
I'm rather curious what weapon the Stormlord is armed with. It looks like a Staff of light, but who knows.
Praxiss wrote:Indeed. I'm assumign the Command Barge can be used for any IC so you coudl put the StormLord in one if you want. That would be cool as well.
Dammit, this shopping list is getting longer by the minute!
Yak's post on the front page said can be used for Any of the Lord models, but not the two that are Crypteks in the Fluff (Szeras and Orikian) So the Stormlord can defiantly nab one!
I really need to see the command barge point cost, before I make any judgements, but it sounds quite awesome. Being able to drop your unkillable Warscythe lord, into a group of marines, would be quite awesome. The Sweep Attacks sound great as well, since hitting at strength 7 on the Rear armor is giving you a very good chance to pop most vehicles. Need the point cost though!
Definitely going to buy the Praetorians, a barge of each kind and the book. If warrior costs make it effective enough I will just field the 70+ odd warriors in a tide of just gaunted faces and overwhelm the enemy. Zap Branigan taught me how to use my army!
Kurgash wrote:Definitely going to buy the Praetorians, a barge of each kind and the book. If warrior costs make it effective enough I will just field the 70+ odd warriors in a tide of just gaunted faces and overwhelm the enemy. Zap Branigan taught me how to use my army!
You'll lose the first time you come across an IG army. They will just max out your pre-set kill limit, and presto, no more Necrons.
Kurgash wrote:Definitely going to buy the Praetorians, a barge of each kind and the book. If warrior costs make it effective enough I will just field the 70+ odd warriors in a tide of just gaunted faces and overwhelm the enemy. Zap Branigan taught me how to use my army!
You'll lose the first time you come across an IG army. They will just max out your pre-set kill limit, and presto, no more Necrons.
Kurgash wrote:Definitely going to buy the Praetorians, a barge of each kind and the book. If warrior costs make it effective enough I will just field the 70+ odd warriors in a tide of just gaunted faces and overwhelm the enemy. Zap Branigan taught me how to use my army!
You'll lose the first time you come across an IG army. They will just max out your pre-set kill limit, and presto, no more Necrons.
Are you referring to Phase out? because that's gone.
I just had a thought about the command barge, what if you put Trazyn in one and used the sweep attacks to try and get his weapons ability off. Just a thought, probably wouldn't work due to how it's written, will just have to wait.
Sir Harry Flashman, VC wrote:I might have to consider the ship to store option if I'm unlikely to see my order for a week otherwise. Loving all the new models, but am really looking forward to the new wraiths, hopefully in the second wave. It's the codex my 6K of current crons are desperate for though.
Just keep in mind that you 6k points of Necrons will drop fit nicely into a 1500 point game after the codex.
I think that I'll be going to my FLGS and pre-order a White Dwarf.
I'll probably just pick up the codex.
Oh, if I only had more money!
Kurgash wrote:Definitely going to buy the Praetorians, a barge of each kind and the book. If warrior costs make it effective enough I will just field the 70+ odd warriors in a tide of just gaunted faces and overwhelm the enemy. Zap Branigan taught me how to use my army!
You'll lose the first time you come across an IG army. They will just max out your pre-set kill limit, and presto, no more Necrons.
Are you referring to Phase out? because that's gone.
He's talking about feeding my Necrons guardsmen until they hit their predetermined kill limit. Jokes on him though as the kill limit is set to -1 so they'd actually have to create a guardsman!
JohnnoM wrote:dont think you get deathmarks with the immortals?
I assume it's a Multi Part Kit allowing you to build 5 Immortals OR 5 Deahthmarks...
They seem to share same bodies - only heads, hands and weapons differ.
I don't think they will be more than 5 bodies per box, but if you use normal warrior bodies (I have many spare) you can make some Deathmarks from bitz.
asimo77 wrote:Anyone else find it funny that of all the races in 40k Necrons have a suprisingly good shot at being named the most honourable, agreeable, and dare I say good? All thanks to those Praetorians.
There is a still a large difference between chaotic evil and lawful evil. Both are still evil, but you can figure out who fits under what.
Agamemnon2 wrote:It amuses me that people are crying that Necrons don't have any good antitank firepower. Has the notion of armies having actual weaknesses ever even occurred to your addle-coved imaginings? Clearly not.
And that potential cover is TERRIBLE. Someone should photoshop it into a Manowar album.
Featuring the hit single "Trading with the Imperium all day, rocking all night"!
I'm truly more curious about the warriors and the immortals at this point. I love the idea of the immortals getting tesla carbines. Do the warriors have anything else besides gauss rifles? Do we have the different stat lines on the weapons yet? I know the immortals base gun is now rapid fire but is it still S5 AP4 and what the heck is a guass blaster?
Having not officially announced anything means that a customer at my LGS just bought the old codex yesterday. I hope he sends gw an angry letter in two weeks when he sees the new one on the shelf
I noticed it was missing and asked the manager ( who only cares about comics and bodybuilding) where it went. He had no idea necrons were coming since gw hasn't told him anything yet and he hangs out in creepy old gyms and not online, he at least has plausible deniability. This is why the "super secret" policy sucks.
Balor wrote:I'm truly more curious about the warriors and the immortals at this point. I love the idea of the immortals getting tesla carbines. Do the warriors have anything else besides gauss rifles? Do we have the different stat lines on the weapons yet? I know the immortals base gun is now rapid fire but is it still S5 AP4 and what the heck is a guass blaster?
The Gauss Blaster is the Immortal Gun. It's still Strength 5 AP 4, but is now rapid fire. Still has the Gauss special rule.
The Tesla Carbine is Strength 5 AP - Assault 1 With the Tesla Special rule
The Gauss Flayer (Warriors) is Still strength 4 A 5 Rapid fire, with the Gauss Special rule.
gotta say im not too hot on all these special characters and their rules... i much prefer the generic character with options to a pre-packaged harbinger of awesome sauce.
in my gaming group we regard all special chars as cheese and never use them, and quite honestly i cant see the ones in the necron dex changing that...
Balor wrote:I'm truly more curious about the warriors and the immortals at this point. I love the idea of the immortals getting tesla carbines. Do the warriors have anything else besides gauss rifles? Do we have the different stat lines on the weapons yet? I know the immortals base gun is now rapid fire but is it still S5 AP4 and what the heck is a guass blaster?
The Gauss Blaster is the Immortal Gun. It's still Strength 5 AP 4, but is now rapid fire. Still has the Gauss special rule.
The Tesla Carbine is Strength 5 AP - Assault 1 With the Tesla Special rule
The Gauss Flayer (Warriors) is Still strength 4 A 5 Rapid fire, with the Gauss Special rule.
Ah oops I did not read the caption of the image, so is that "other gun" the tesla carbine?
Balor wrote:I'm truly more curious about the warriors and the immortals at this point. I love the idea of the immortals getting tesla carbines. Do the warriors have anything else besides gauss rifles? Do we have the different stat lines on the weapons yet? I know the immortals base gun is now rapid fire but is it still S5 AP4 and what the heck is a guass blaster?
The Gauss Blaster is the Immortal Gun. It's still Strength 5 AP 4, but is now rapid fire. Still has the Gauss special rule.
The Tesla Carbine is Strength 5 AP - Assault 1 With the Tesla Special rule
The Gauss Flayer (Warriors) is Still strength 4 A 5 Rapid fire, with the Gauss Special rule.
Ah oops I did not read the caption of the image, so is that "other gun" the tesla carbine?
Is it the 5th yet?
Yes, the other weapon option on the Immortals is the Tesla Carbine. Keep in mind BoW labeled the pictures wrong, Read what Kroot says above the pictures.
Balor wrote:I'm truly more curious about the warriors and the immortals at this point. I love the idea of the immortals getting tesla carbines. Do the warriors have anything else besides gauss rifles? Do we have the different stat lines on the weapons yet? I know the immortals base gun is now rapid fire but is it still S5 AP4 and what the heck is a guass blaster?
The Gauss Blaster is the Immortal Gun. It's still Strength 5 AP 4, but is now rapid fire. Still has the Gauss special rule.
The Tesla Carbine is Strength 5 AP - Assault 1 With the Tesla Special rule
The Gauss Flayer (Warriors) is Still strength 4 A 5 Rapid fire, with the Gauss Special rule.
Ah oops I did not read the caption of the image, so is that "other gun" the tesla carbine?
Is it the 5th yet?
Yes, the other weapon option on the Immortals is the Tesla Carbine. Keep in mind BoW labeled the pictures wrong, Read what Kroot says above the pictures.
HAHA ya I missed that the first five times checking out all the new stuff. I guess I'm just stocked to finally have a codex that will be updated. 24 warriors are done with their uploaded paint scheme and only 50 more to go! I love the fact the I will not need to be moding out my warriors to get the new weapons or having to deal with a new redesign box of models for my warriors.
tarnish wrote:gotta say im not too hot on all these special characters and their rules... i much prefer the generic character with options to a pre-packaged harbinger of awesome sauce.
in my gaming group we regard all special chars as cheese and never use them, and quite honestly i cant see the ones in the necron dex changing that...
All characters are cheese, not really, they provide tactical options for an army (Logan, Pedro etc) a close combat powerhouse (Kharn, Ragnar, Swarmlord), or army benefits (Chapter Tactics, Vect etc.) for a high points cost. Most of them aren't cheese, with vulkan being an exception, they just give a benefit to the army for a higher points cost than most generic HQ. Calling all SCs cheese is just as silly as all the Mat Ward hate.
Balor wrote:I'm truly more curious about the warriors and the immortals at this point. I love the idea of the immortals getting tesla carbines. Do the warriors have anything else besides gauss rifles? Do we have the different stat lines on the weapons yet? I know the immortals base gun is now rapid fire but is it still S5 AP4 and what the heck is a guass blaster?
A gauss Blaster is the Immortal's Base gun that is S5 AP4 rapid fire.
tarnish wrote:gotta say im not too hot on all these special characters and their rules... i much prefer the generic character with options to a pre-packaged harbinger of awesome sauce.
in my gaming group we regard all special chars as cheese and never use them, and quite honestly i cant see the ones in the necron dex changing that...
All characters are cheese, not really, they provide tactical options for an army (Logan, Pedro etc) a close combat powerhouse (Kharn, Ragnar, Swarmlord), or army benefits (Chapter Tactics, Vect etc.) for a high points cost. Most of them aren't cheese, with vulkan being an exception, they just give a benefit to the army for a higher points cost than most generic HQ. Calling all SCs cheese is just as silly as all the Mat Ward hate.
Yeah I dont even think Vulcan can be called cheese, I mean, I never use a SC cos I havent painted one, but I always field a Librarian.
He gives all sorts of buffs to the units in the army, is fielding a librarian cheese!?
They have a points cost, you pay it. I dont see it as cheese at all, and I have no issue playing against someone who uses one, you just have to play accordingly.
I think it gives me an advantage in many cases, because I know exactly HOW it buffs his army, and play accordingly.
I wish i coudl say SCs are cheese and ban them in mygames group! I am sick of dying to my friends Space Wofl Death Star unit of Ragnar + Rune Priest + Ass Termies (inlcuding the dude that can boomerang a thunderhammer) in a Land raider.
tarnish wrote:gotta say im not too hot on all these special characters and their rules... i much prefer the generic character with options to a pre-packaged harbinger of awesome sauce.
in my gaming group we regard all special chars as cheese and never use them, and quite honestly i cant see the ones in the necron dex changing that...
You have a very strange gaming group. Aun'va is cheese? The Phoenix Lords are cheese? Without a doubt this is one of the strangest things I've heard in a while.
tarnish wrote:gotta say im not too hot on all these special characters and their rules... i much prefer the generic character with options to a pre-packaged harbinger of awesome sauce.
in my gaming group we regard all special chars as cheese and never use them, and quite honestly i cant see the ones in the necron dex changing that...
You have a very strange gaming group. Aun'va is cheese? The Phoenix Lords are cheese? Without a doubt this is one of the strangest things I've heard in a while.
In the vast majority of nerdic games (40K, WFB, MtG, D&D, and many others) it's easier to call something "cheese" or "broken" than it is to actually figure out how to deal with it. You also have to account for the fact that a lot of casual gaming groups might never get exposed to, say, forums on the internet that might tell them how easy it is to play around things that they previously considered overpowered. So, that one kid who fields a monolith phalanx is suddenly a powergamer because it never occurred to his buddies to just take out the 15 necron models it would take to phase him out, and they get pissed because they just keep throwing all their fire at the 'liths.
tarnish wrote:gotta say im not too hot on all these special characters and their rules... i much prefer the generic character with options to a pre-packaged harbinger of awesome sauce.
in my gaming group we regard all special chars as cheese and never use them, and quite honestly i cant see the ones in the necron dex changing that...
You have a very strange gaming group. Aun'va is cheese? The Phoenix Lords are cheese? Without a doubt this is one of the strangest things I've heard in a while.
In the vast majority of nerdic games (40K, WFB, MtG, D&D, and many others) it's easier to call something "cheese" or "broken" than it is to actually figure out how to deal with it. You also have to account for the fact that a lot of casual gaming groups might never get exposed to, say, forums on the internet that might tell them how easy it is to play around things that they previously considered overpowered. So, that one kid who fields a monolith phalanx is suddenly a powergamer because it never occurred to his buddies to just take out the 15 necron models it would take to phase him out, and they get pissed because they just keep throwing all their fire at the 'liths.
Yah, except for those games where the phase out rule is not in effect for whatever reason.
tarnish wrote:gotta say im not too hot on all these special characters and their rules... i much prefer the generic character with options to a pre-packaged harbinger of awesome sauce.
in my gaming group we regard all special chars as cheese and never use them, and quite honestly i cant see the ones in the necron dex changing that...
You have a very strange gaming group. Aun'va is cheese? The Phoenix Lords are cheese? Without a doubt this is one of the strangest things I've heard in a while.
In the vast majority of nerdic games (40K, WFB, MtG, D&D, and many others) it's easier to call something "cheese" or "broken" than it is to actually figure out how to deal with it. You also have to account for the fact that a lot of casual gaming groups might never get exposed to, say, forums on the internet that might tell them how easy it is to play around things that they previously considered overpowered. So, that one kid who fields a monolith phalanx is suddenly a powergamer because it never occurred to his buddies to just take out the 15 necron models it would take to phase him out, and they get pissed because they just keep throwing all their fire at the 'liths.
Which is a good point, and I know at least one little gaming group that I interact with now and again who have the same beliefs. I'm no tactician, but I at least try to tell them to do this, or that, depending on what I read on here, but they refuse. They don't go as far as not using SCs because they're 'cheese' but they have ingrained opinions of certain builds because they refuse to change what they're doing to try and counter them. The Lith' Phalanx is a prime example actually. I've told them, ditch some of that CC stuff, get yourself the best weapon you can find in the codex, and go for the troops.
I think this is strange because, well, they've banned all SCs on account of 'cheese', when most, if not all SC's, have obvious disadvantages and strengths. To put it simply, you get what you pay for with an SC. You may pay upwards for 150 points for this one model, but they're good for their price (most of them). The strangest thing is, tarnish is online, on dakka, if they have problems, the tactics sub-forum is just a click away for him.
Two things I need to ask:
1) If I preorder my models to be sent in store, can I pick them up the very next day after the release, only I might not be able to get in on release day 2) This new Reanimation Protocols, how are we gonna portray their saves on forums? Overlord 2+/3++/5+++ ? Seems right to me
Crity! 79 pages of posts in a week. Think they got our attention. So, nobody likes the flayed ones. They wouldn't put bloody skin in the art because moms buy these kits for kids - but if you want blood, paint jobs will take care of that. Personally, I was never into the bloody skin thing, so I painted mine with white shirts and black pants - kinda like Mormon missionaries (no offense meant).
I like all the new models which is painful budget-wise. Thank C'Tan I get a fat discount working at a hobby shop. Definitely getting some of the new boats. Does look like the big gun on a boat is kinda lost in the sculpt, but paint might fix that... or a razor knife. Seems nobody liked the old Pariahs, so will be interesting to see if the Praetorians get used. The disk flyers are nice, but not sure about the two gunners. As for the Tomb King thing, everybody knows the Egyptians were visited by extra-terrestials.
I think the skimmer boats are great as Necrons were always a slow army. Disappointed you only get one big gun boat per army - Imperials get to bring a bunch.
Overall, I like the new stuff - after all, Necrons were way overdue for a refurb. Course it will all come down to the codex. And the bling on the Lords... they are just over-magnetized and that stuff just happens to get stuck on them. My Ork looters like all the extra bling. And the head-dress controversy - if you slept for a gazillion years, what do you do for THAT bed-head - you get a fancy hat with appendages.
ciaotym wrote:Crity! 79 pages of posts in a week. Think they got our attention. So, nobody likes the flayed ones. They wouldn't put bloody skin in the art because moms buy these kits for kids - but if you want blood, paint jobs will take care of that. Personally, I was never into the bloody skin thing, so I painted mine with white shirts and black pants - kinda like Mormon missionaries (no offense meant).
I like all the new models which is painful budget-wise. Thank C'Tan I get a fat discount working at a hobby shop. Definitely getting some of the new boats. Does look like the big gun on a boat is kinda lost in the sculpt, but paint might fix that... or a razor knife. Seems nobody liked the old Pariahs, so will be interesting to see if the Praetorians get used. The disk flyers are nice, but not sure about the two gunners. As for the Tomb King thing, everybody knows the Egyptians were visited by extra-terrestials.
I think the skimmer boats are great as Necrons were always a slow army. Disappointed you only get one big gun boat per army - Imperials get to bring a bunch.
Overall, I like the new stuff - after all, Necrons were way overdue for a refurb. Course it will all come down to the codex. And the bling on the Lords... they are just over-magnetized and that stuff just happens to get stuck on them. My Ork looters like all the extra bling. And the head-dress controversy - if you slept for a gazillion years, what do you do for THAT bed-head - you get a fancy hat with appendages.
Where are you getting the Only one Gunboat per Army? You can have 1 for every heavy support slot.
Ascalam wrote:Rare to nonexistent, at least in my experience
Won't matter in a week or two anyway
You must not play a lot of different missions or apoc then.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
G. Whitenbeard wrote:With regards to the new Lychguard, which gear set up are you guys going to do?
Shields/Hyperphase or Warscythes?
Why not a squad of both? *Shrug* that's what I'll do, anyway, though I'll find it hard to justify NOT taking the 4++ shields...unless they're expensive or I need to save points. Still wish you could do a half and half split or something.
I play a lot of different missions, but my opponents tend to only want to play the ones that still force me to use phase out
My local tournament usually uses the standard missions, or the Battle Missions book ones. Occasionally they'll throw in a wierd one, but oddly enough none of them ever seem to include the line 'Phase out suspended'
I don't play Apocalypse with Necrons, because the battles are horribly one sided. Necrons only have 2 Apoc units, and neither is all that awesome.
They look nice overall, but there are a few things worth mentioning.
HQ:
I like how they look. If the fluff says that they are sentient, their appearance makes sense. They try to highlight their individuality with robes, gildings etc. They modify themselves to suit their personal style.
Elites:
Lynch Guard. These guys, I don't like. They look to like Tomb Kings in space, with all those shields and ornamental armor. They are just mindless drones, so why decorate them so much? Same with Praetorians.
Immortals. I like them, because they have not changed much. Good work on those. I love the new eyes, they look more frightening.
Flayed ones. My god... They are terrible... Human skin does not hang around like that, nor does it look "nice and clean" considering they rip it off of their victims. Lets pray it is just painted badly. Also, the hips... Seriously, are they here to fight or to give birth?
Deathmarks. Cool idea, nice models, but I fear they turn out to be new Ratlings, another useless sniper squad with few wounds, and no CC value.
Vehicles
Command barge. Makes no sense to me, why would a commander need a ridiculous floating podium to guide his troops? After all, the Necron Lord's value should be in CC, not driving around in fancy barges barking commands like an IG officer.
Support barge. Please... Whatever you do, do not ditch Destroyers and/or Heavy Destroyers because of these... They look a lot better.
Ghost ark. Ridiculous. Why would they need a transport which offers little to no protection and looks like the Ultramarines lent the walls to it? Also, the pilot. Necron vehicles are supposed to be automated machines like monoliths, so why is the pilot there? And why is he on such a place that any fellow who calls himself a sniper can boomheadshot him? I don't like it at all. Looks like droid transporter from Star Wars.
Doomsday Ark. That makes more sense than Ghost ark, at least. But all the weapons look like it is going to be a pain in the ass to kill. I hope it won't be a gamebreaker, considering that it has more weapons than an Ork vehicle.
I hope that they don't change the look of the missing models much. I for one, thought they looked cool.
Ascalam wrote:I play a lot of different missions, but my opponents tend to only want to play the ones that still force me to use phase out
My local tournament usually uses the standard missions, or the Battle Missions book ones. Occasionally they'll throw in a wierd one, but oddly enough none of them ever seem to include the line 'Phase out suspended'
I don't play Apocalypse with Necrons, because the battles are horribly one sided. Necrons only have 2 Apoc units, and neither is all that awesome.
Sword and Board for me, if o get any of them
Well I don't mean specifically worded as such (or even near to it), though I think there may be one or two that state something to the effect of army wide limitations or restrictions are lifted. But, there's a chaos or tau mission in the book where non-vehicle units that are wiped out enter play again at the beginning of the next turn as if they were entering for the first time. It's a KP mission and because of that rule it was impossible for my opponent to kill enough in one round to phase me out (though I ended up slaughtering him in KP's, like 12-3).
Depends on who you're playing against and how many people are playing. if you're playing apoc at a FLGS with randoms or like 10+ people, then ya, snooze fest for the crons. But you can still play apoc rules in smaller games. I've played a few with my 3 buddies and I've always done very well. Even when I'm taking horrible lists that have no destroyers and 10 pariahs and flayed ones. LoL Anyway, like you said it won't matter in a week or two anyway.
Also, 2 apoc units? The giant gun thing and....what else? Are you referring to the Tomb Stalker or the necron phalanx (though that's not a unit)?
• We'll Be Back from the previous codex has been replaced by Reanimation Protocols (sorry I keep accidentally calling it Resurrection Protocols in some of these teasers). It now works at the end of each phase, but only on a 5+. You now remove models and place a token or marker next to the unit to remind you how many rolls to make (although you could just use the downed models as markers, but the important thing is you know that these markers don't affect gameplay at all). The rules are very clear about when/how models that return to play via RP are placed and if the entire unit is wiped out then the unit is gone and no RP rolls can be taken. Similarly, if the only model left in the unit is a character (such as a joined IC or a Cryptek/Lord) then these models alone are not sufficient to allow the other models to attempt their RP rolls. Nearly every non-vehicle unit in the game benefits from RP (as opposed to the old WBB, which only worked for 'Necrons'), except for the C'Tan shards.
Reanimation Protocols returns the model to play with a single wound unless they have a Phylactery in which case they come back (the first time they get back up) with D3 wounds.
a little bit nerfed, but when I see the majority of price reductions, It feels appropriate.
• Ever-Living. This is basically just an additional Reanimation Protocol rule that characters have to describe how they're placed back on the table. Only characters (including basic Lords & Crypteks) have this rule, no squads do. The only real thing to note about it is that if the model wasn't joined to a unit when it went down, then if it returns to play it must be placed within 3" of the spot it fell. So characters are the only models it really matters where their 'marker' is placed when they are removed. So in some situations, such as an enemy unit killing a character with Ever-Living in CC and then consolidating on top of his marker, it would be entirely possible to prevent him from returning to play (as they can't if you are unable to place them within 3" of the spot they went down).
sooo... a fancy way to say WBB...
- Edited by insaniak. Quoting the entire first post makes your post huge and your commentary almost invisible. -
Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:They look nice overall, but there are a few things worth mentioning.
HQ:
I like how they look. If the fluff says that they are sentient, their appearance makes sense. They try to highlight their individuality with robes, gildings etc. They modify themselves to suit their personal style.
Elites:
Lynch Guard. These guys, I don't like. They look to like Tomb Kings in space, with all those shields and ornamental armor. They are just mindless drones, so why decorate them so much? Same with Praetorians.
Immortals. I like them, because they have not changed much. Good work on those. I love the new eyes, they look more frightening.
Flayed ones. My god... They are terrible... Human skin does not hang around like that, nor does it look "nice and clean" considering they rip it off of their victims. Lets pray it is just painted badly. Also, the hips... Seriously, are they here to fight or to give birth?
Deathmarks. Cool idea, nice models, but I fear they turn out to be new Ratlings, another useless sniper squad with few wounds, and no CC value.
Vehicles
Command barge. Makes no sense to me, why would a commander need a ridiculous floating podium to guide his troops? After all, the Necron Lord's value should be in CC, not driving around in fancy barges barking commands like an IG officer.
Support barge. Please... Whatever you do, do not ditch Destroyers and/or Heavy Destroyers because of these... They look a lot better.
Ghost ark. Ridiculous. Why would they need a transport which offers little to no protection and looks like the Ultramarines lent the walls to it? Also, the pilot. Necron vehicles are supposed to be automated machines like monoliths, so why is the pilot there? And why is he on such a place that any fellow who calls himself a sniper can boomheadshot him? I don't like it at all. Looks like droid transporter from Star Wars.
Doomsday Ark. That makes more sense than Ghost ark, at least. But all the weapons look like it is going to be a pain in the ass to kill. I hope it won't be a gamebreaker, considering that it has more weapons than an Ork vehicle.
I hope that they don't change the look of the missing models much. I for one, thought they looked cool.
Well, the lord can (from what yak said and how I interpreted it) do a "sweep attack" in the command vehicle and hit every unit it passes over with his melee attacks, so...ya, there's that at least.
Also, why would "snipers" have any sort of CC capability to begin with? I mean, that's the antithesis to being a sniper.
Ascalam wrote:I play a lot of different missions, but my opponents tend to only want to play the ones that still force me to use phase out
My local tournament usually uses the standard missions, or the Battle Missions book ones. Occasionally they'll throw in a wierd one, but oddly enough none of them ever seem to include the line 'Phase out suspended'
I don't play Apocalypse with Necrons, because the battles are horribly one sided. Necrons only have 2 Apoc units, and neither is all that awesome.
Sword and Board for me, if o get any of them
Well I don't mean specifically worded as such (or even near to it), though I think there may be one or two that state something to the effect of army wide limitations or restrictions are lifted. But, there's a chaos or tau mission in the book where non-vehicle units that are wiped out enter play again at the beginning of the next turn as if they were entering for the first time. It's a KP mission and because of that rule it was impossible for my opponent to kill enough in one round to phase me out (though I ended up slaughtering him in KP's, like 12-3).
Depends on who you're playing against and how many people are playing. if you're playing apoc at a FLGS with randoms or like 10+ people, then ya, snooze fest for the crons. But you can still play apoc rules in smaller games. I've played a few with my 3 buddies and I've always done very well. Even when I'm taking horrible lists that have no destroyers and 10 pariahs and flayed ones. LoL Anyway, like you said it won't matter in a week or two anyway.
Also, 2 apoc units? The giant gun thing and....what else? Are you referring to the Tomb Stalker or the necron phalanx (though that's not a unit)?
*shrug* I'm good enough with Necrons (currently... i will be terrible with the new codex for a while until i adapt ) that i rarely phase out anyway, but my opponents refuse to let go of their 'win-button'
Apoc pickup games always seem to begin with 'i'll go get my Titan... ' or 'jim, get the baneblades out of the truck, will you..' . I have played a couple with Necrons, but i find them a lot more fun with my Orks
My mistake One Apoc unit (Pylon) and one other forgeworld model (Stalker) from the IA books, which the local crowd only allow in Apoc games ...
*shrug* I'm good enough with Necrons (currently... i will be terrible with the new codex for a while until i adapt ) that i rarely phase out anyway, but my opponents refuse to let go of their 'win-button'
Apoc pickup games always seem to begin with 'i'll go get my Titan... ' or 'jim, get the baneblades out of the truck, will you..' . I have played a couple with Necrons, but i find them a lot more fun with my Orks
My mistake One Apoc unit (Pylon) and one other forgeworld model (Stalker) from the IA books, which the local crowd only allow in Apoc games ...
Ya, my buddy has a baneblade...luckily I didn't have to face it. But I hear ya, I think I've only phased out once and that was when I was still learning the game (only been playing a few years now).
Wow, they only let the stalker play in apoc games? that's horrible, but it's...kind of a let down even in regular games, more so that it takes a slot away from the monolith (non-apoc, of course).
Me, I'd let the Stalker in any game I play with somebody that has it, of course provided it fits in the points limit and they have the rules sheet for it.
If for no other reason than to get to stare at the nice model for an hour and some.
Im just wondering if I built the doomsday ark could I use the spare necrons from the kit as plain necron warriors even though they dont have any weapons and are inactive?
*shrug* I'm good enough with Necrons (currently... i will be terrible with the new codex for a while until i adapt ) that i rarely phase out anyway, but my opponents refuse to let go of their 'win-button'
Apoc pickup games always seem to begin with 'i'll go get my Titan... ' or 'jim, get the baneblades out of the truck, will you..' . I have played a couple with Necrons, but i find them a lot more fun with my Orks
My mistake One Apoc unit (Pylon) and one other forgeworld model (Stalker) from the IA books, which the local crowd only allow in Apoc games ...
Ya, my buddy has a baneblade...luckily I didn't have to face it. But I hear ya, I think I've only phased out once and that was when I was still learning the game (only been playing a few years now).
Wow, they only let the stalker play in apoc games? that's horrible, but it's...kind of a let down even in regular games, more so that it takes a slot away from the monolith (non-apoc, of course).
Against a strong tournament list Phase Out can be hard to avoid, sometimes. Especially if you roll well (badly!) on your reserve rolls and have all your warriors come in on turn 2
They only allow the IA books in Apoc. I'm ok with them in regular games, though some of the units have severe power/cost balance issues, and oddly enough those are the ones people spam...
*shrug* I'm good enough with Necrons (currently... i will be terrible with the new codex for a while until i adapt ) that i rarely phase out anyway, but my opponents refuse to let go of their 'win-button'
Apoc pickup games always seem to begin with 'i'll go get my Titan... ' or 'jim, get the baneblades out of the truck, will you..' . I have played a couple with Necrons, but i find them a lot more fun with my Orks
My mistake One Apoc unit (Pylon) and one other forgeworld model (Stalker) from the IA books, which the local crowd only allow in Apoc games ...
Ya, my buddy has a baneblade...luckily I didn't have to face it. But I hear ya, I think I've only phased out once and that was when I was still learning the game (only been playing a few years now).
Wow, they only let the stalker play in apoc games? that's horrible, but it's...kind of a let down even in regular games, more so that it takes a slot away from the monolith (non-apoc, of course).
Against a strong tournament list Phase Out can be hard to avoid, sometimes. Especially if you roll well (badly!) on your reserve rolls and have all your warriors come in on turn 2
They only allow the IA books in Apoc. I'm ok with them in regular games, though some of the units have severe power/cost balance issues, and oddly enough those are the ones people spam...
I meant more along the lines of "wow, your FLGS players only allow stalkers in apoc games?". I know that typically for tournaments they only allow IA books in apoc and nothing else, but I don't play tournaments. I rarely go to the store anymore either since I have my own table now. Unfortunately my three main opponents all have different flavors of marines as their main army...so ya.
XclusivevVorTex wrote:Im just wondering if I built the doomsday ark could I use the spare necrons from the kit as plain necron warriors even though they dont have any weapons and are inactive?
If you do it right, you should be able to model them as 'just activating' kind of deal. I'm thinking I'm going to use the extra's as statues for terrain.
Just a quick one, are they remaking the normal necron warriors? Tempted to buy a box and start painting them. But if they are getting a remake i wont bother.
cyberscape7 wrote:Two things I need to ask:
1) If I preorder my models to be sent in store, can I pick them up the very next day after the release, only I might not be able to get in on release day 2) This new Reanimation Protocols, how are we gonna portray their saves on forums? Overlord 2+/3++/5+++ ? Seems right to me
1) If your talking about GW, I think you have to order them from the store to the store (Confusing I know!), but you will get them on release day. I know thats what im doing!
2) 2+/3++/RP? I have no idea
cyberscape7 wrote:Two things I need to ask:
1) If I preorder my models to be sent in store, can I pick them up the very next day after the release, only I might not be able to get in on release day 2) This new Reanimation Protocols, how are we gonna portray their saves on forums? Overlord 2+/3++/5+++ ? Seems right to me
1) If your talking about GW, I think you have to order them from the store to the store (Confusing I know!), but you will get them on release day. I know thats what im doing!
2) 2+/3++/RP? I have no idea
I like 2+/3++/5+++ just because of how obnoxious it is. When the army has a res orb, you could use this: 2+/3++/5+++(4+++). The more obnoxious the better
cyberscape7 wrote:Two things I need to ask:
1) If I preorder my models to be sent in store, can I pick them up the very next day after the release, only I might not be able to get in on release day 2) This new Reanimation Protocols, how are we gonna portray their saves on forums? Overlord 2+/3++/5+++ ? Seems right to me
1) If your talking about GW, I think you have to order them from the store to the store (Confusing I know!), but you will get them on release day. I know thats what im doing!
2) 2+/3++/RP? I have no idea
I like 2+/3++/5+++ just because of how obnoxious it is. When the army has a res orb, you could use this: 2+/3++/5+++(4+++). The more obnoxious the better
cyberscape7 wrote:Two things I need to ask:
1) If I preorder my models to be sent in store, can I pick them up the very next day after the release, only I might not be able to get in on release day 2) This new Reanimation Protocols, how are we gonna portray their saves on forums? Overlord 2+/3++/5+++ ? Seems right to me
1) If your talking about GW, I think you have to order them from the store to the store (Confusing I know!), but you will get them on release day. I know thats what im doing!
2) 2+/3++/RP? I have no idea
I like 2+/3++/5+++ just because of how obnoxious it is. When the army has a res orb, you could use this: 2+/3++/5+++(4+++). The more obnoxious the better
tarnish wrote:gotta say im not too hot on all these special characters and their rules... i much prefer the generic character with options to a pre-packaged harbinger of awesome sauce.
in my gaming group we regard all special chars as cheese and never use them, and quite honestly i cant see the ones in the necron dex changing that...
You have a very strange gaming group. Aun'va is cheese? The Phoenix Lords are cheese? Without a doubt this is one of the strangest things I've heard in a while.
In the vast majority of nerdic games (40K, WFB, MtG, D&D, and many others) it's easier to call something "cheese" or "broken" than it is to actually figure out how to deal with it.
its not that we cant deal with it my good man... its a question of not Wanting the special characters to become game-controlling.... thats it. besides, its an agreement we have because, quite frankly, thats how we like it.
iproxtaco wrote:Why did you go and quote the whole first post?
Yeah I don't really like SC myself...I don't know why really, I just don't like using them.
I guess it's cause a SC could die...which is confusing from a fluff perspective.
The only SC I really felt comfortable using were the C'tan, because they can't die.
Actually, going OT for a second, I once played a game without using dice. Just assumed any dice roll would be statistical average. Was an interesting experience.
UltraPrime wrote:If you are playing from a 'fluff' perspective, then using dice is probably just as surplus.
Not really. From a fluff perspective, the dice represent the possible outcomes of a battle.
However, as I said my stance on using SC is...well, weird.
I think your stance used to be a lot more common. When I was playing 3rd Ed., SC's were allowed but usually came with some stigma. I agree that it's a little ridiculous having (what are supposed to be) historically noteworthy individuals fighting in each and every battle. ("Oh Marneus Calgar and Dante are fighting again! Those crazy Chapter Masters!") It kind of spoils their "specialness." That said, I frequently play with Fateweaver and Skulltaker. Nowadays SC's are a lot more reasonably priced and often have the most fun abilities.
UltraPrime wrote:Actually, going OT for a second, I once played a game without using dice. Just assumed any dice roll would be statistical average. Was an interesting experience.
whigwam wrote:
Nowadays SC's are a lot more reasonably priced and often have the most fun abilities.
this. nowadays being the point. i think we can agree that the special chars available to each codex army are widely different and some codexes actually add little in the way of options to the army at all... some add major options and incredible rules... is that balanced and fair?
Sad that they didn't go up today, given it is the 23rd, but knowing the GW site it'll show tomorrow if it shows at all (What's New Today is always shown the day after for some reason). That or i wait till the 29th.
whigwam wrote:
Nowadays SC's are a lot more reasonably priced and often have the most fun abilities.
this. nowadays being the point. i think we can agree that the special chars available to each codex army are widely different and some codexes actually add little in the way of options to the army at all... some add major options and incredible rules... is that balanced and fair?
My opinion aligns with this, and I would go on to say that the codices that come out in a given edition appear to be reasonably balanced against each other. All of the 5E codices may, at times, seem overpowered to those of us who only play 4E (and in some extreme cases like 'crons, 3E), they seem for the most part pretty diverse and well-balanced against each other. Sure, there's cheese, but I don't think there's anything truly egregious to the point that all competitive players are taking identical lists.
No no no its 00110010 00101011 00101111 00110011 00101011 00101111 00110101 00101011 00101011 00101011 01010010 01010000 obviously, we are talking about necrons here
No no no its 00110010 00101011 00101111 00110011 00101011 00101111 00110101 00101011 00101011 00101011 01010010 01010000 obviously, we are talking about necrons here
Necrons are really too advanced for binary I think. It should be Hexadecimal
Wonder how he's deal with a Nid incursion..
