whigwam wrote:When I was playing 3rd Ed., SC's were allowed but usually came with some stigma. I agree that it's a little ridiculous having (what are supposed to be) historically noteworthy individuals fighting in each and every battle. ("Oh Marneus Calgar and Dante are fighting again! Those crazy Chapter Masters!") It kind of spoils their "specialness."
By the same token I can protest the abundance of Space Marine armies because Space Marines are supposed to be rare in the fluff, there's only supposed to be a million of them in a galaxy full of untold billions of regular humans and aliens alike, but I have a feeling that I'd be told to feth off if I seriously tried to argue with people and tell them the only armies they're allowed to play are Guard and Orks.
I guess it's too much work to just pretend that the special character on the field is someone else? It's really no different from fielding any other unit in a codex, it's nothing more than a statline with a couple of special rules, it doesn't have to be Marneus Calgar going to fight every single battle.
Why do people even care? I didn't realize realism was that damn important in our space game with aliens, gods, and physics-defying/sense-defying technology. It's okay if your super soldier army that's supposedly so rare as to be a myth to most of the Imperium is somehow able to show up and battle every known threat to the galaxy, but the chapter master showing up to every battle is just too much!
whigwam wrote:When I was playing 3rd Ed., SC's were allowed but usually came with some stigma. I agree that it's a little ridiculous having (what are supposed to be) historically noteworthy individuals fighting in each and every battle. ("Oh Marneus Calgar and Dante are fighting again! Those crazy Chapter Masters!") It kind of spoils their "specialness."
By the same token I can protest the abundance of Space Marine armies because Space Marines are supposed to be rare in the fluff, there's only supposed to be a million of them in a galaxy full of untold billions of regular humans and aliens alike, but I have a feeling that I'd be told to feth off if I seriously tried to argue with people and tell them the only armies they're allowed to play are Guard and Orks.
I guess it's too much work to just pretend that the special character on the field is someone else? It's really no different from fielding any other unit in a codex, it's nothing more than a statline with a couple of special rules, it doesn't have to be Marneus Calgar going to fight every single battle.
Why do people even care? I didn't realize realism was that damn important in our space game with aliens, gods, and physics-defying/sense-defying technology. It's okay if your super soldier army that's supposedly so rare as to be a myth to most of the Imperium is somehow able to show up and battle every known threat to the galaxy, but the chapter master showing up to every battle is just too much!
There is a considerable difference in scale between a million Space Marines and a handful of Special Characters, but sure. I like a good slippery slope. Grey Knights maybe would've been a better example considering how disproportionally abundant they are lately.
The rest of your response is a little odd considering I went on to say that I often use SC's. It is hard not to in the current environment, which is kind of my point.
Blink wrote:IcedAnimal, you aren't the primary demographic for them in that regard. Fact is, the LGS has to purchase the stuff from GW anyway, so they don't lose all that much in that regard.
They have other merchandise to push (Dreadfleet and now the paint set), so they can hold off on the army which will have eventual purchases regardless if they're spur of the moment.
So cool the jets on calling things "terrible" policies and being hyper critical.
Maybe you missed out on something but everyone is pretty pissed at GW for this. Do you know a single company in existence that wont even say a word about a release two weeks away? Its bad publicity for GW and they are losing customers because of it. Pushing dreadfleet and a 300 dollar paint set? I bet there are huge markets for those. Before you decide to put your opinion on everybody else maybe you should read all the posts in the thread you are commenting in. Its people that are willing to sit back and take it that let GW charge 120 dollars for 5 knights.
You don't change anything with your constant whining and moaning. YOU are not a white knight accomplishing anything by complaining on a message board. Tell me; what else have you done but sulk to others about how much you hate that you can't get your models a few DAYS sooner?
It's the economics of supply and demand, they created a perceived limited supply of Dreadfleet. They pushed that hard and it was successful for them. Now they have another gift set (the paintbrushes) that have a "limited" supply for the holiday season. They are going to push that hard and it will also be successful. The Necron army, on the other hand, has no perceived supply shortage and can be pushed over and over by GW employees, or can be sought by customers drawn to the army.
It's just economics and they're doing quite well for themselves according to their stocks and annual reports despite these "bad policies"...
Sidstyler wrote:
By the same token I can protest the abundance of Space Marine armies because Space Marines are supposed to be rare in the fluff, there's only supposed to be a million of them in a galaxy full of untold billions of regular humans and aliens alike, but I have a feeling that I'd be told to feth off if I seriously tried to argue with people and tell them the only armies they're allowed to play are Guard and Orks.
I guess it's too much work to just pretend that the special character on the field is someone else? It's really no different from fielding any other unit in a codex, it's nothing more than a statline with a couple of special rules, it doesn't have to be Marneus Calgar going to fight every single battle.
Why do people even care? I didn't realize realism was that damn important in our space game with aliens, gods, and physics-defying/sense-defying technology. It's okay if your super soldier army that's supposedly so rare as to be a myth to most of the Imperium is somehow able to show up and battle every known threat to the galaxy, but the chapter master showing up to every battle is just too much!
Quoted for win. Preach on, brother.
Yakface, we need more rumors! The thread is degenerating rapidly! Rescue us!
Sidstyler wrote:
By the same token I can protest the abundance of Space Marine armies because Space Marines are supposed to be rare in the fluff, there's only supposed to be a million of them in a galaxy full of untold billions of regular humans and aliens alike, but I have a feeling that I'd be told to feth off if I seriously tried to argue with people and tell them the only armies they're allowed to play are Guard and Orks.
I guess it's too much work to just pretend that the special character on the field is someone else? It's really no different from fielding any other unit in a codex, it's nothing more than a statline with a couple of special rules, it doesn't have to be Marneus Calgar going to fight every single battle.
Why do people even care? I didn't realize realism was that damn important in our space game with aliens, gods, and physics-defying/sense-defying technology. It's okay if your super soldier army that's supposedly so rare as to be a myth to most of the Imperium is somehow able to show up and battle every known threat to the galaxy, but the chapter master showing up to every battle is just too much!
Noooooooooooo! Don't spoil people's unreasoned, unfounded hatred with sound arguments? What's this board coming to?
UNTIL NOW! Bwahaha 20 shots of glance-on-a-6 goodness. Too bad you'll never get to line up both broadsides on a single unit, unless it's horseshoe-shaped.
tetrisphreak wrote:Does every new codex have a 20-shot weapon?
IG - punisher cannon
tyranids - fleshborer hive
oh wait those are just Crud-ace's codices....
UNTIL NOW! Bwahaha 20 shots of glance-on-a-6 goodness. Too bad you'll never get to line up both broadsides on a single unit, unless it's horseshoe-shaped.
Its possible...you just have to be surrounded. Like in CC.
Blink wrote:IcedAnimal, you aren't the primary demographic for them in that regard. Fact is, the LGS has to purchase the stuff from GW anyway, so they don't lose all that much in that regard.
They have other merchandise to push (Dreadfleet and now the paint set), so they can hold off on the army which will have eventual purchases regardless if they're spur of the moment.
So cool the jets on calling things "terrible" policies and being hyper critical.
Maybe you missed out on something but everyone is pretty pissed at GW for this. Do you know a single company in existence that wont even say a word about a release two weeks away? Its bad publicity for GW and they are losing customers because of it. Pushing dreadfleet and a 300 dollar paint set? I bet there are huge markets for those. Before you decide to put your opinion on everybody else maybe you should read all the posts in the thread you are commenting in. Its people that are willing to sit back and take it that let GW charge 120 dollars for 5 knights.
You don't change anything with your constant whining and moaning. YOU are not a white knight accomplishing anything by complaining on a message board. Tell me; what else have you done but sulk to others about how much you hate that you can't get your models a few DAYS sooner?
It's the economics of supply and demand, they created a perceived limited supply of Dreadfleet. They pushed that hard and it was successful for them. Now they have another gift set (the paintbrushes) that have a "limited" supply for the holiday season. They are going to push that hard and it will also be successful. The Necron army, on the other hand, has no perceived supply shortage and can be pushed over and over by GW employees, or can be sought by customers drawn to the army.
It's just economics and they're doing quite well for themselves according to their stocks and annual reports despite these "bad policies"...
Wow BM much. Thanks for singling me out on things I have never said. I will not be buying Necrons on launch day because I, like most people, will need to go through the codex first. I have not "moaned" or "whined" at all, I have a legitimate opinion that some people here share but thanks for playing. When your company neglects its bread and butter customers and decides to hype paint sets and sailing games, those customers move to things like privateer press and using other companies figures to play your game. I didn't realize you spent all your time skimming through GWs economic portfolio. I dont know whether you feel the need to defend the company out of some bizarre obsession or whether you like getting bent over just to try and buy a couple plastic soldiers but because you have a separate opinion doesn't mean you get to be rude to someone you dont know.
I'm sure that with the repetitive price hikes, when it hits 80 bucks for a squad of your most basic troops you will just sit back and say "Oh its just economics". If there was an equivalent company to GW, most people would probably jump the GW ship. I dont know about you but if I put thousands into your hobby and then you hide info to the last second and gouge me on every single thing, how is that just economics. I dont think "If we can screw them over without them having somewhere else to go, lets do it" is a respectable business plan.
I appologize for the "BM", Hox, but fact is, Games Workshop IS a business governed by economics. If they CAN get away with selling a troop box for $80, they most certainly would. All businesses strive to reach that equilibrium between price and # of sales.
And you are right, they would lower their prices if they had an equalizing competetor... But they don't. Complaining doesn't change that fact.
I'm personally tired of the pseudointellectual talk about the "bad business" policies they have from people who really have no idea what they're talking about, and instead are just frustrated that they have to pay more, or wait longer.
Yeah it sucks we have to pay so much for our little plastic toys; lord knows why we do it in the first place, but there's some draw to that, and GW capitalizes on that fact.
Blink wrote:I appologize for the "BM", Hox, but fact is, Games Workshop IS a business governed by economics. If they CAN get away with selling a troop box for $80, they most certainly would. All businesses strive to reach that equilibrium between price and # of sales.
And you are right, they would lower their prices if they had an equalizing competetor... But they don't. Complaining doesn't change that fact.
I'm personally tired of the pseudointellectual talk about the "bad business" policies they have from people who really have no idea what they're talking about, and instead are just frustrated that they have to pay more, or wait longer.
Yeah it sucks we have to pay so much for our little plastic toys; lord knows why we do it in the first place, but there's some draw to that, and GW capitalizes on that fact.
I probably wouldn't bring that up here. 40K is one of those hobbies that bring out the egocentrist in people. They tend to interpret things they don't like as a slight against them.
GW is a moderately successful business that tries to balance price with demand, but they have policies I don't like, so they're an evil moneygrubbing corporation!
This one player uses lists that I can never quite seem to beat, but instead of finding a way around it using basic math and a quick search on a tactics forum, I'm going to blame GW for having incompetent army book writers!
All these WAAC players have fun playing the game itself and trying to trying to be as decisive a general as possible, but I don't enjoy that since I place more value on the hobbying aspect of wargaming. Clearly, these people have it all wrong and are therefore ruining the game for everyone!
That having been said, GW absolutely fails at marketing. It seems that they're playing a dangerous game with the price increases to increase revenue when they should be focusing on driving up demand. If they would step up production of new rules (not every codex release needs a billion new models to accompany it) people would have no problem buying the old models. And they don't do any competent advertising outside of video games.
Sidstyler wrote:
I guess it's too much work to just pretend that the special character on the field is someone else? It's really no different from fielding any other unit in a codex, it's nothing more than a statline with a couple of special rules, it doesn't have to be Marneus Calgar going to fight every single battle.
Why do people even care?
Personally, it's that special characters are made so cheesy that nobody plays "regular" IC's anymore unless the army is so obsolete that special characters are not worth playing (Tau). I think it is something like a year when I have last seen a Space Marine list with regular Space Marine Captain. It just takes character out of the army when everyone plays same "special" character.
I'd hate to blame Matt Ward, but it is really Matt Ward's fault. It's mostly his books which have spammed the game with OTT characters: Mephiston, Vulkan, Celestine, Draigo...
jspyd3rx wrote:Wow, if you guys hate this game and Company soo much; why do you guys play it? Anyway, let's get back on topic please?
Does anyone know if any of the new minis come on 40mm bases?
Because its something we enjoy. It would be nice to have more than a couple armies without having to look at your collection and think "theres a thousand dollars worth of units I almost never touch here". I dont know if your mother buys your stuff for you or if you make and spend your own money but a military salary leaves a fair bit to be desired in terms of extra cash to spend on hobbies. Its hard to justify 300-400 in new units to update an army.
His fluff says that while the C'Tan provided the knowledge for the bio-transference of the Necrontyr race into Necrons, it was Szeras that actually made it a reality. He saw it as just one step towards the ultimate evolution into gods of pure energy (I guess what he saw the C'Tan as and wanted to be that).
So even today he continues his tireless studies into understanding all facets of life, presumably seeking the elusive secret that would allow him to become a 'god' in his eyes.
To do this, apparently he feels he needs to test on living beings, so he's constantly needing fresh subjects culled from invasions. Through his research he has come up with some the greatest advancements in technology for the Necrons, so his services are much sought after.
He is a Cryptek special character, so has a much more less powerful statline then the other special characters that are essentially super-Necron Orverlords.
For Wargear, he has an Eldrtich Lance and Gaze of Flame (Assault and Defensive Grenades for him and his unit).
His one unique special rule is that he upgrades a single Warrior or Immmortal unit with a random upgrade (you roll a D3 to see which ability gets picked...I mistakenly reported earlier that he upgraded D3 units, but that actually isn't the case. He only upgrades one unit)
The upgrades are: T5, BS5 or S5.
Definitely one of the more ho-hum named characters from a gameplay perspective, but he's also the cheapest by far.
I've only skimmed the thread for fluff and photos, but here's my perspective.
To be honest, these new fluff changes do solve some of the problems the Necrons had-- now, they have characters with personality and goals, far more diversity in their various Tomb-world empires, and their books can have quotes from these new characters like all the other books do.
However, it also makes them more or less just like every other race: a squabbling, struggling and disparate empire trying to expand and destroy its specific enemies while greedily looking out for its own selfish interests, and we already have those. They're still robot skeletons with gauss weapons, but without their cold, indiscriminate slaughter of the living, I feel like they've lost the "necro" in "Necrons". I'm not really "afraid" of them anymore.
I also notice a shift to a more Egyptian motif in the aesthetics. Speaking personally, the shapes look okayish, but the gold touches just don't work for me. I feel like it lays on the inspirational style too thickly; it's quite obvious, compared to the subtler styles seen in the previous designs.
Ostrakon wrote:... not every codex release needs a billion new models to accompany it...
Therein lies the problem. They don't see it as:
'This Codex needs a dozen new kits to go with it!'
Instead they see it as:
'These dozen new kits need a Codex to go with them!
Model company first. Rules company last. Not second - last!
Fair enough, but if this is true (ostensibly, it must be given their, er, interesting business practices) then they'd move more models overall if they updated rules more often. Even a range that doesn't sell well would see increased demand if it had its rules updated every once in a while. Take 'crons or DE for example. Demand for those armies dwindled down to almost nothing, so they didn't get new rules. How does that help them sell models? If they weren't planning on adding new models anyway, they have very little to lose by releasing a quick WD rules update updating point costs to reflect the status quo of a new edition. I can understand them wanting to hold back an update if they have new models in the immediate pipeline, but they clearly didn't have plans to release new GK/SoB/DE/Necron models any time after the 4E rules came out. Letting demand for those ranges stagnate is a terrible way to do business. It baffles me how they can manage to stay afloat by increasing the price of a box of tacmarines by 10 bucks.
I like how they have cheaper HQs Incase you really like your overlord and dont have the points for one of the big dogs
Or even just for smaller games necrons can now have choices for a 1000 point game instead of the just what you can fit after a lord and 2 warrior squads
asimo77 wrote:Woops just realized I messed up my question. I meant to say can a SC be taken IN an Overlord's Court. Ima edit my previous post accordingly
I dont think so because its a HQ slot
EDIT: I would ask if because he is a Cryptek does that mean he doesnt get a royal court?
Dont let that stop you from taking him too lead a unit if you have alotta lords in your court and want to specialize a lil more(and are not taking any other SCs and have the points)
making warriors into morts with a D3 roll if you get the T could be a way of making those points you spent on him back
Blink wrote:I appologize for the "BM", Hox, but fact is, Games Workshop IS a business governed by economics. If they CAN get away with selling a troop box for $80, they most certainly would. All businesses strive to reach that equilibrium between price and # of sales.
And you are right, they would lower their prices if they had an equalizing competetor... But they don't. Complaining doesn't change that fact.
I'm personally tired of the pseudointellectual talk about the "bad business" policies they have from people who really have no idea what they're talking about, and instead are just frustrated that they have to pay more, or wait longer.
Yeah it sucks we have to pay so much for our little plastic toys; lord knows why we do it in the first place, but there's some draw to that, and GW capitalizes on that fact.
First of all, do not listen to them if you do not like what you are hearing.
Second of all Dread fleet is not selling in my region so they are not so successful in my region. Bad business policies? Go look at the most recent financial report, the information restrictions, the Chapter House Law Suit and so on. These are signs to me of a company that is under duress. If not then there would be no region embargo. No layoffs, no part time employees, no closures of stores and so on.
From a business perspective, my take that regardless of what actions GW has done, their greatest guilt is how their customer base perceives of them. And it is a flawed one. They need to work on their public relations with their customer base. this is going to take time an effort to do this but right now I do not see this happen.
Back on topic.
What should be stated is.
1# Will the New Nercons sell? The answer is Yes. People will pick up the codex at least and make their decisions about buying more models. I'm going to pick one up and compare it to my notes of course and see what has changed and what has not. If it is good enough for me to make a new Fluff Army then I'll go ahead and do it and show the store my Benjamins once again.
2# Will it sell Well? I believe like the DE initial sales will be good and then slide down, because after all of the frenzied shopping, regardless of how pretty or how well the models and fluff are, it all comes down to game mechanics. This includes size of the unit, point cost of the unit, point cost of the upgrades, what got nerfed in the past codex and what GW gave in return on special abilities/powers. The true math hammer of 40K.
If this codex (which by the way is a Xeno codex and judging by the past practices of GW with Xeno Codexes), is not Tournament competitive against the top tier codexes that are being played right now, then it will not be played as such and be judged as an Almost Army.
If the Codex is tournament competitive against the top tier codexes being played right now then people who have the money will pay the money and go start and/or upgrading their Necon armies.
But I believe that Games Works will not harm their sacred cow, which are the Space Marines (and their different flavors) nor any of the IG, and the reason for that is a solid business one. This is where the core of their profits are coming from. Space Marines, not Eldar, nor DE. Not Orks, nor Tau. Not Chaos nor Nids or Necrons. Space Marines.
We will all find out in 2 or so weeks when the codex comes out and we will see what exactly is in the codex.
yakface wrote:Vargard Obyron does not take up a HQ slot if in the same army as Zahndrekh.
Two questions: Does this mean one can take Obryron as an HQ choice by himself? Also, if Zahndrekh and Obryon are in the same army, can you take a Court for each of them, or do they simply count as one HQ choice if taken together?
Real quick: Where are people getting that the Royal Court is unlocked by the other HQs? I haven't seen that yet. From the looks of it, it's just an HQ option that includes 0-5 Lords and/or 0-5 Crypteks.
First of do not listen to them if you do not like what you are hearing.
That is terrible advice. Problems don't go away because you choose to ignore them; hell that's why people are complaining, right? Because they perceive a problem. I would rather educate people on their improper use of "bad business policy" than just ignore it and let the ignorance of economics spread.
Seriously, everyone needs to cool it with calling what they're doing "bad business policy" and be honest; you simply are frustrated you have to pay more or wait longer.
takface wrote:Vargard Obyron does not take up a HQ slot if in the same army as Zahndrekh.
Two questions: Does this mean one can take Obryron as an HQ choice by himself? Also, if Zahndrekh and Obryon are in the same army, can you take a Court for each of them, or do they simply count as one HQ choice if taken together?
My guess is Yes or mabye as a elite slot mabye with a squad and No i dont see him getting his own court just like the named crypteks
yakface wrote:Vargard Obyron does not take up a HQ slot if in the same army as Zahndrekh.
Two questions: Does this mean one can take Obryron as an HQ choice by himself? Also, if Zahndrekh and Obryon are in the same army, can you take a Court for each of them, or do they simply count as one HQ choice if taken together?
My guess is Yes or mabye as a elite slot mabye with a squad and No i dont see him getting his own court just like the named crypteks
but those are just my thoughts, yours?
Not entirely sure. It could make sense both ways. If he is a solo HQ choice, he would get a court to take a long. If by taking him with another character you make him not take up a slot, does he retain his status as an HQ choice or does he become just a nifty add-on to Zahndrekh? These guys sound like a lot of fun, and I'd really prefer to take something other than Imotek. I see a lot of enemy Stormlords in my future...
SoulGazer wrote:Not entirely sure. It could make sense both ways. If he is a solo HQ choice, he would get a court to take a long. If by taking him with another character you make him not take up a slot, does he retain his status as an HQ choice or does he become just a nifty add-on to Zahndrekh? These guys sound like a lot of fun, and I'd really prefer to take something other than Imotek. I see a lot of enemy Stormlords in my future...
He's not an Overlord, there's no reason for him to unlock a royal court.
SoulGazer wrote:Not entirely sure. It could make sense both ways. If he is a solo HQ choice, he would get a court to take a long. If by taking him with another character you make him not take up a slot, does he retain his status as an HQ choice or does he become just a nifty add-on to Zahndrekh? These guys sound like a lot of fun, and I'd really prefer to take something other than Imotek. I see a lot of enemy Stormlords in my future...
He's not an Overlord, there's no reason for him to unlock a royal court.
Do we know if the Codex says there is a difference between "Overlord" and "Named character" for FOC purposes? What you say makes sense fluff-wise, I just wanna know if it makes that distinction in the book.
SoulGazer wrote:Do we know if the Codex says there is a difference between "Overlord" and "Named character" for FOC purposes? What you say makes sense fluff-wise, I just wanna know if it makes that distinction in the book.
That's Yakface's description of how the Royal Court gets unlocked. Overlord/Name Overlord yes, everyone else no.
SoulGazer wrote:Do we know if the Codex says there is a difference between "Overlord" and "Named character" for FOC purposes? What you say makes sense fluff-wise, I just wanna know if it makes that distinction in the book.
That's Yakface's description of how the Royal Court gets unlocked. Overlord/Name Overlord yes, everyone else no.
*Shrug* He's gotten things a tad confused before. Not blaming him, that's a ton of stuff to go through that no one else knows about, just sayin'.
Dude and his body gaurd sound like they will rock for CC (sorry forgot names) and the way it seems to me is that the bodygaurd can lead another unit and if the SC gets into CC the bodygaurd teleports back too him
So im thinking if you want a CC lord these are the guys
The way I see it, on November 5th I will have yet another $800 of useless GW product, plus all the time I put into building and painting them. It's the same story my pile of codexes and previous rule versions have. It is inevitible that their new products will have the same story in eight years or so.
Rogue Trader and 3eWHFB for me, unless there's a class action lawsuit to hop on board with.
Thanks for the latest info, Yakface! I hope you know you have hordes of devoted nerds eagerly awaiting every post!
Now give me MOAR!!!
As for the rumors themselves--eh, he seems alright. The fluff is decent, but could be more tragic/awesome; I think I'd prefer if he were questing for mortality rather than godhood. Rules seem pretty mediocre--I suppose it comes down to his point cost and his competition in the end, like all intra-slot competition. I can't see myself running him over a generic Lord, mostly 'cause I'm psyched about the Command Barge.
Man, I sometimes wonder if GW is fueled / profited somehow by nerd rage. I was on holidays this entire week, but every night when I got back to my hotel I would read this thread on my iPhone, after getting back today I was able to catch up on the last 10 pages and now seeing, after MUCH anticipation, that the pre-order isn't until NEXT week... I'm pretty po'ed. I know it doesn't change anything really as to when I actually would RECEIVE the models, but it would have given me a chance to go to my local GW where they always have 1 copy of the codex you can thumb through. I was willing to drop ~$500 tomorrow as this week was a payday week... now since I have to wait a week, chances are I'll spend cash elsewhere (I'm terrible at playing the "waiting game" ).
I just cant stop shaking my head about how ridiculous this is... its all about dreadfleet for like 3 months, now its a damn painting kit?
Ixion wrote:To be honest, these new fluff changes do solve some of the problems the Necrons had-- now, they have characters with personality and goals, far more diversity in their various Tomb-world empires, and their books can have quotes from these new characters like all the other books do.
Well not like ALL the ohte rbooks. I don't remember Tyranids having Tyranid quotes.
Hox wrote:I dont think you need an overlord to take a court do you? I though they just couldnt ride on the barge.
The court doesnt have to be with the overlord it can split off and lead other units like Sgt.s
EDIT: I think its any overlord or SC lord can take a court each
Yeah I know on the breaking off but the SC Crypteks can probably take a court too. The only defined rule I think so far was that only OLs can ride in the catacomb command barge.
Wow, I stay out of the forum for 36 hours and it grows by 20+ pages... I should have known...
Anyway don't be so fast to assume Necrons are getting the love... no one knows yet if the codex will be a powerhouse or the new nerfed army... Remains to be seen... 12 days to release!
By the way Inquisitor... "Nuns with Guns"!?! Lol, good one.
Inquisitor Cyotle wrote:This upsets me. The Necrons get so much love and support.... Where was this for the SoB huh??
Necrons don't get a lot of support, this is the first update since 2003.
I'm sure the SOB real update isn't going to be to far away either, Once they get a New codex, I'm sure they'll get all kinds of Shiny new models as well.
So it's 0-5 AND 0-5 for the royal court? That's pretty neat; one Overlord can pretty much deck out your entire army and you can take a Cryptek SC for your second HQ.
Anyway, Yakface; the Flayed Ones, did Terrifying Visage, or any rendition of it survive the codex transition, or does it look like they were toned down to basic fighters?
Blink wrote:And where do you see a problem with their financies?
Their sales are down in UK, USA, and Australia (a staggering 11.8%, which is why they probably locked out third party retailers). Their profits and revenues are down despite slashing their operating costs to the bone. But still, overall they aren't doing too bad. "Moderately successful" is probably an apt description. Level of community involvement and consumer good will, however? The former is in shambles, and while there is no definitive marker I can point to for the latter one, it's probably not too far behind. My hope is that the success currently being enjoyed by a few upstart competitors will eventually wake them up.
Blink wrote:And where do you see a problem with their financies?
Their sales are down in UK, USA, and Australia (a staggering 11.8%, which is why they probably locked out third party retailers). Their profits and revenues are down despite slashing their operating costs to the bone. But still, overall they aren't doing too bad. "Moderately successful" is probably an apt description. Level of community involvement and consumer good will, however? The former is in shambles, and while there is no definitive marker I can point to for the latter one, it's probably not too far behind. My hope is that the success currently being enjoyed by a few upstart competitors will eventually wake them up.
Yeah just remember that a 2.7% overall sales decline is FAR from bad. They were able to make up money in other investments which will pay off in the long run. It'd be wise to get stocks in the company around now if it were possible. Also The 11.8% isn't too staggering since Australia ranks far below the US, UK and the rest of Europe in terms of number of sales anyway, so the percentage points fluctuate far easier and mean less.
For the sake of models and focus on customer satisfaction, I HOPE one of their competitors can scrap their way on top... It's a long shot and HIGHLY doubtful, but it would do wonders for the market.
Blink wrote:And where do you see a problem with their financies?
Their sales are down in UK, USA, and Australia (a staggering 11.8%, which is why they probably locked out third party retailers). Their profits and revenues are down despite slashing their operating costs to the bone. But still, overall they aren't doing too bad. "Moderately successful" is probably an apt description. Level of community involvement and consumer good will, however? The former is in shambles, and while there is no definitive marker I can point to for the latter one, it's probably not too far behind. My hope is that the success currently being enjoyed by a few upstart competitors will eventually wake them up.
Yeah just remember that a 2.7% overall sales decline is FAR from bad. They were able to make up money in other investments which will pay off in the long run. It'd be wise to get stocks in the company around now if it were possible. Also The 11.8% isn't too staggering since Australia ranks far below the US, UK and the rest of Europe in terms of number of sales anyway, so the percentage points fluctuate far easier and mean less.
For the sake of models and focus on customer satisfaction, I HOPE one of their competitors can scrap their way on top... It's a long shot and HIGHLY doubtful, but it would do wonders for the market.
There are plenty of Threads about this. Please either go make another one, or take it to PMs, instead of polluting our Necron Rumor thread.
Anyway, Flashman I'm sure that he Augment is only Szeras ability. I think we've seen everything Crypteks can do in the OP.
Adam - so DE arent competitive? Wrong. Eldar and Tau Empire werent hideously competitive in 4th ed, when they were released? Wrong.
Trying to claim that Xenos codexes are never able to beat SM belies reality. You cant even claim "in 5th ed", due to DE, which absolutely walk all over the most competitive vanilla marine builds, generally destroy BA and have a damn good chance against GK (more rock paper scissors there, depending on the GK build)
Essentially the only bad xenos codex in a looong time is Nids
nosferatu1001 wrote:Essentially the only bad xenos codex in a looong time is Nids
Seriously, the 'Nids codex isn't all that bad... At least in my mind, it's miles better than the Astartes Marine book...
Its a fun book, its just seen as lackluster competitively in an open environment since it cannot reasonably beat GK, thus in a tournament they are a poor choice.
'Nids lose to IG, GK, and DE every time. There are some skilled 'nid players that have used Genestealer shock to some success vs those types of armies, but as a general rule those three plus every flavor of marines has the gear to wipe their nose with our monstrous creatures and eat our gribblies for breakfast.
tetrisphreak wrote:'Nids lose to IG, GK, and DE every time. There are some skilled 'nid players that have used Genestealer shock to some success vs those types of armies, but as a general rule those three plus every flavor of marines has the gear to wipe their nose with our monstrous creatures and eat our gribblies for breakfast.
I don't like this absolute; "every time". It implies that, without fail, Tyranids will lose to IG, GK and DE. In reality, this is simply not true. Tyranids may lose the majority of games to the aforementioned armies, heck, they may lose pretty much all the time to these armies in an optimal competitive setting. However, to say they will lose "every time" is simply not true; it may be as rare as anything, but Tyranids can win. Also, don't overgeneralize; the Astartes dex is a piece of garbage, a very easy matchup for any competent gribbly player. I agree that there are some ridiculous matchups (venomspam w/ razorwing, 4x JotWW) but the Nid dex isn't all that horrible.
nosferatu1001 wrote:Essentially the only bad xenos codex in a looong time is Nids
Seriously, the 'Nids codex isn't all that bad... At least in my mind, it's miles better than the Astartes Marine book...
Its a fun book, its just seen as lackluster competitively in an open environment since it cannot reasonably beat GK, thus in a tournament they are a poor choice.
Having played Magic for years I remember reading from the developers that they are always surprised what the players make of a new set. They do thousands of hours of in-house testing to catch as many broken things as possible, but they still have to errata the set. I'm new to 40k, but it seems that GW is in the same boat. They can't tell where a codex will sit (in terms of competitive power) until we do.
tetrisphreak wrote:'Nids lose to IG, GK, and DE every time. There are some skilled 'nid players that have used Genestealer shock to some success vs those types of armies, but as a general rule those three plus every flavor of marines has the gear to wipe their nose with our monstrous creatures and eat our gribblies for breakfast.
I don't like this absolute; "every time". It implies that, without fail, Tyranids will lose to IG, GK and DE. In reality, this is simply not true. Tyranids may lose the majority of games to the aforementioned armies, heck, they may lose pretty much all the time to these armies in an optimal competitive setting. However, to say they will lose "every time" is simply not true; it may be as rare as anything, but Tyranids can win. Also, don't overgeneralize; the Astartes dex is a piece of garbage, a very easy matchup for any competent gribbly player. I agree that there are some ridiculous matchups (venomspam w/ razorwing, 4x JotWW) but the Nid dex isn't all that horrible.
What Sasori said about polluting the Necron Rumor thread.
Didn't you read? Don't quote him. Just blind reply like I do.
Hopefully this necron release will diversify my local meta-game. Currently it's mostly different flavours of Marines + couple of Dark Eldar and IG-players. Personally I bet on wrong horse and got Some used Tau for cheap last summer, instead of necrons. Well they might be next years xenos.
As I sit here perusing the thread, eagerly anticipating Yakface to drip-feed more tidbits from the new book, I'm biding my time by painting my existing horde of Necrons.
By the time the codex releases I should have 40 warriors, 10 Immortals, 2 Monoliths, both C'tan, 6 Wraiths, 13 scarab bases, and a couple Lords all painted....Not a bad start.
Also, what's up with Quantum Shielding? If my ghost ark gets pelted with long fang missle launcher fire and the hits from unit have total armor penetration of, say, 14, 12, 12, and 11, what does that mean? Do I get one penetrate and that's it? Or 3 penetrates and glance?
Ostrakon wrote:Do Warscythes retain their 2d6 armor penetration?
Also, what's up with Quantum Shielding? If my ghost ark gets pelted with long fang missle launcher fire and the hits from unit have total armor penetration of, say, 14, 12, 12, and 11, what does that mean? Do I get one penetrate and that's it? Or 3 penetrates and glance?
The 14 gets through but the other shots were stopped by the shield, but the next group that fires gets you at av 11
Ostrakon wrote:Do Warscythes retain their 2d6 armor penetration?
Also, what's up with Quantum Shielding? If my ghost ark gets pelted with long fang missle launcher fire and the hits from unit have total armor penetration of, say, 14, 12, 12, and 11, what does that mean? Do I get one penetrate and that's it? Or 3 penetrates and glance?
As far as I know:
Warscythes are "just" +2 strength power weapons and if all the shots came from the same squad, then they all hit at the same time, meaning you would have 1 pen but after that shooting your vehicle would loose the +2 AV
nosferatu1001 wrote:Adam - so DE arent competitive? Wrong. Eldar and Tau Empire werent hideously competitive in 4th ed, when they were released? Wrong.
Trying to claim that Xenos codexes are never able to beat SM belies reality. You cant even claim "in 5th ed", due to DE, which absolutely walk all over the most competitive vanilla marine builds, generally destroy BA and have a damn good chance against GK (more rock paper scissors there, depending on the GK build)
Essentially the only bad xenos codex in a looong time is Nids
Who won Adepticon? Who won the Nova Open. Nuff said on that aspect and will not comment further in order not to derail the topic. On November 5th we will see the codex and do the math hammer and I'll wait and see next year to see if the Nercons do get the top three in those tournaments.
nosferatu1001 wrote:Adam - so DE arent competitive? Wrong. Eldar and Tau Empire werent hideously competitive in 4th ed, when they were released? Wrong.
Trying to claim that Xenos codexes are never able to beat SM belies reality. You cant even claim "in 5th ed", due to DE, which absolutely walk all over the most competitive vanilla marine builds, generally destroy BA and have a damn good chance against GK (more rock paper scissors there, depending on the GK build)
Essentially the only bad xenos codex in a looong time is Nids
Who won Adpeticon? Who won the Nova Open. Nuff said.
Captain Obvious: "That wouldn't have anything to do with the slightly leaning ratio of SM to Xenos armies in tournaments, would it?"
nosferatu1001 wrote:Adam - so DE arent competitive? Wrong. Eldar and Tau Empire werent hideously competitive in 4th ed, when they were released? Wrong.
Trying to claim that Xenos codexes are never able to beat SM belies reality. You cant even claim "in 5th ed", due to DE, which absolutely walk all over the most competitive vanilla marine builds, generally destroy BA and have a damn good chance against GK (more rock paper scissors there, depending on the GK build)
Essentially the only bad xenos codex in a looong time is Nids
Who won Adpeticon? Who won the Nova Open. Nuff said.
Captain Obvious: "That wouldn't have anything to do with the slightly leaning ratio of SM to Xenos armies in tournaments, would it?"
Yes corporal cahoon however a pro is a pro and he uses the best tool to win the prize.
Yeah I think having a 24" gun that has dual use as anti-tank, flamer, as well as twinlinking the rest of the army at the target if it doesn't die (a ork horde or beastpack for example) will be a must-have in TAC lists after the model is released. I just hope it's not going to become a Tervigon situation where one of the best units in the codex is never made by GW...
That is a prerry damn nice necron army you have yourself there! Never seen anything remotely close to it originality is underestimated these days (guilty of that myself)
I'll say that at this point in time, I'm buying Necrons and a lot of the deals are insane...I suppose some people don't like the new direction of the Necrons? Whatever the case, I'm finding some great deals!!
I've bought 3x Tomb Spyders - NiB - but I may end up getting rid of one; a good deal off of ebay. I'm personally pumped for the Lychguard...just wished that the Triarch Walker was available. :(
chaos0xomega wrote:Negative. Warriors are staying warriors, but they maybe repackaged....
I think he wants to know if they have any new attachments. Like weapons and accessories.
This would be good to know.
Another question: Is there a broader hierarchy in a Necron army? In the current codes, there are no squad leaders. Eg.g, the new codex has Lieutenants for the Overlord.
chaos0xomega wrote:Negative. Warriors are staying warriors, but they maybe repackaged....
I think he wants to know if they have any new attachments. Like weapons and accessories.
This would be good to know.
Another question: Is there a broader hierarchy in a Necron army? In the current codes, there are no squad leaders. Eg.g, the new codex has Lieutenants for the Overlord.
By the looks of it...no.
However, I guess you could say that the lords and Crypteks could be like Squad Leaders. They should have 1 or 2 wounds each, and they don't count as IC when they're in the squad.
Swara wrote:Very nice crons man! Gorgeous monolith : D
On a side note... if anyone has any tomb spyder or wraiths they find extra of.. or want to get rid of them.. I'm having a hard time finding them. : (
...I might have to hit you up on that when I take a look at the Codex. On a impulse I bought 3x Tomb Spyder and have a feeling I may not need that many...but I also like the models anyway.
Loving the armies, Morathi I love you color scheme. Swara, it is sort of hard to see but did you paint "lightning" in the gauss rifles? It looks great
And Fan67 those might be the best painted necrons I have ever seen. The free hand bullet holes and the C'tan on the monolith my god. Simply Gorgeous.
I took the easy route and spray painted mine gold then added the sickly green color. This worked great when we only had a few different unit types. But with the upcoming lychguard and such I am struggling to think of another color to add to help distinguish various "elite" units. I am thinking going white "life jacket" style on their rib cages.
So i can take 5 Crypteks per HQ overlord...that means 10 Crypteks in total-if I make them all to fire that S8 weapon what would be the point cost...that is very important
Also- you should put them into units so you can shoot at more targets
usa_supersonic wrote:So i can take 5 Crypteks per HQ overlord...that means 10 Crypteks in total-if I make them all to fire that S8 weapon what would be the point cost...that is very important
Also- you should put them into units so you can shoot at more targets
I think you can only take one type of discipline per cryptek in a court. So you can't have 5 guys in the same court with the S8 weapon. You can have 1 guy (2 if you take 2 overlords), but not 10.
IcedAnimals wrote:Loving the armies, Morathi I love you color scheme. Swara, it is sort of hard to see but did you paint "lightning" in the gauss rifles? It looks great
And Fan67 those might be the best painted necrons I have ever seen. The free hand bullet holes and the C'tan on the monolith my god. Simply Gorgeous.
I took the easy route and spray painted mine gold then added the sickly green color. This worked great when we only had a few different unit types. But with the upcoming lychguard and such I am struggling to think of another color to add to help distinguish various "elite" units. I am thinking going white "life jacket" style on their rib cages.
Yeah I started a "Night/Lightning style a while ago. And yeah, Fan's crons are sick.
CthuluIsSpy wrote:I think you can only take one type of discipline per cryptek in a court. So you can't have 5 guys in the same court with the S8 weapon. You can have 1 guy (2 if you take 2 overlords), but not 10.
It's wargear that can't be shared within the same court for Crypteks, not the disciplines. Yakface pointed that out specifically.
CthuluIsSpy wrote:I think you can only take one type of discipline per cryptek in a court. So you can't have 5 guys in the same court with the S8 weapon. You can have 1 guy (2 if you take 2 overlords), but not 10.
It's wargear that can't be shared within the same court for Crypteks, not the disciplines. Yakface pointed that out specifically.
Isn't there only 2 pieces of gear available in each discipline though?
CthuluIsSpy wrote:Isn't there only 2 pieces of gear available in each discipline though?
You're not forced to take any of the wargear. You can take nothing, spread it between two crypteks or give it all to one. Which means you're free to get however many of the same disciplines you want, though you lose out on the wargear.
Great artworks on this page! Congrats to all! I am still thinking about my color scheme, I am waiting for the codex in order to maybe get a few new ideas to complement my own, before I start painting though...
I was going for a rusted out kind of look, going to be doing the worn & chipped paint look for the backs of my destroyers like Fan67 did, when I finally get around to em.
I wanna do a monolith that looks like it's made out of stone like an axtec pyramid.. dunno how though, haven't even thought about starting it yet...
chaos0xomega wrote:Roughcoat your monolith mini before you paint it to give it a stone like texture, then paint in earthy/rocky tones of your choosing. Done.
usa_supersonic wrote:So i can take 5 Crypteks per HQ overlord...that means 10 Crypteks in total-if I make them all to fire that S8 weapon what would be the point cost...that is very important Also- you should put them into units so you can shoot at more targets
Yak said a unit of 5 Eldritch Lance Cryptic's with 1 solar pulse would be just under 200 points. So, for 2 said units, Just under 400 points. I imagine the pulses would be around 15-20, like in the current codex, so, maybe 350 for just the 10 Plasmamancers
Then, considering how expensive 2 overlords (especially if you take SC's) could be, not sure how many armies will have enough units to drop these guys each into their own.
One idea I've been toying with was having the 10 guys, split 2 off from each court to head units of warriors/immortals, and be left with 2 courts of 3 lance cryptics, to work as a sort of pseudo devastators.
GW hasn't made it in years though. So finding it is a pain. A lot of old hobbyists still have a few cans laying around that you could get your hands on if you asked people from your local shop. I have to say I never would have thought of using it on necrons. But I used quite a bit back when I played fantasy on my lizardmen stuff.
So, as far as the Cryptics go, we know some things, but there is some stuff missing.
YakFace wrote:The 5 Disciplines are: Harbinger of Destruction (described as 'plasmancers', weapon is Eldritch Lance, wargear choices are Gaze of Flame & Solar Pulse), Harbinger of Eternity (able to read the future, weapon is Aeonstave, weargear choices are Chronometron & Timesplinter Cloak), Harbinger of Transmogrification (described as 'geomancers', weapon is Tremorstave, options are Seismic Crucicble & Harp of Dissonance), Harbringer of the Storm (described as 'ethermancers', weapon is Voltaic Staff, options are Ether Crystal & Lightning Field) & Harbringer of Despair (described as 'psychomancers', weapon is Abyssal Staff, options are Nightmare Shroud & Veil of Darkness).
Harbinger of Destruction: Eldritch Lance: Str8 Ap2 36" assault 1 (not a lance) Gaze of Flame: Assault/Defensive grenades Solar Pulse: Night fighting madness
Harbinger of Eternity: Aeonstave: Chronometron: Timesplitter Cloak:
Harbinger of Transmogrification: Tremorstave: Units hit treat all terrain as difficult next turn Seismic Crucible: Reduces assault move by D3" of one unit attacking cryptic Harp of Dissonance: 1 shot entropic attack with unlimited range
Harbinger of the Storm: Voltaic Staff: 12" Assault 4 Haywire Ether Crystal: Damages nearby deepstrikers Lightning Field: Damages attackers
Harbringer of Despair: Abyssal Staff: high strength, but attacks leadership as if it were Toughness? Nightmare Shroud: Current codex has it forcing leadership tests, failure resulting in falling back Veil of Darkness: Like current codex, but no leaving CC any more
So, really, the one we know next to nothing about is the Harbinger of Eternity
Anything I've gotten wrong? Any speculation on what we're missing?
yakface wrote:Today let's look a bit more at Illuminor Szeras.
His fluff says that while the C'Tan provided the knowledge for the bio-transference of the Necrontyr race into Necrons, it was Szeras that actually made it a reality. He saw it as just one step towards the ultimate evolution into gods of pure energy (I guess what he saw the C'Tan as and wanted to be that).
So even today he continues his tireless studies into understanding all facets of life, presumably seeking the elusive secret that would allow him to become a 'god' in his eyes.
To do this, apparently he feels he needs to test on living beings, so he's constantly needing fresh subjects culled from invasions. Through his research he has come up with some the greatest advancements in technology for the Necrons, so his services are much sought after.
He is a Cryptek special character, so has a much more less powerful statline then the other special characters that are essentially super-Necron Orverlords.
For Wargear, he has an Eldrtich Lance and Gaze of Flame (Assault and Defensive Grenades for him and his unit).
His one unique special rule is that he upgrades a single Warrior or Immmortal unit with a random upgrade (you roll a D3 to see which ability gets picked...I mistakenly reported earlier that he upgraded D3 units, but that actually isn't the case. He only upgrades one unit)
The upgrades are: T5, BS5 or S5.
Definitely one of the more ho-hum named characters from a gameplay perspective, but he's also the cheapest by far.
So reviewing these rumors, do you guys still feel that the Necrons have what are primarily support HQ's, designed to BUFF the rest of the army rather than to LEAD and be the big badass in town?
While it certainly looks that way, with the royal court option plus the special character abilities and the removal of C'tan to the Elites section, I feel like the rest of the army has largely received the buffs necessary that they don't need their HQ choices to be effective anymore. Kind of disappointing, as I've always enjoyed that aspect of the Necron playstyle
Or follow this kind of procedure.
Prime or basecoat your model.
Mix fine sand with an acrylic paint (the cheap stuff). It may require some trial and error, but I'd start with a mix of about 1:1.
Let dry overnight. Remember, you can always add more texture, but you can't take it off!
Yeah, Kroothawk is out of town this weekend. I went ahead and added it in to the first post (along with a little bit more clarity on how he is taken in the army and whether or not a Royal Court can be taken with him).
And for people asking for more about the Triarch Stalker, I'm not sure what else I can tell you really! All the really important info has been provided.
Uh, well I suppose I can say that it is BS/WS4, S7, I2 & A3, but really none of that is too important to its function. I would imagine that if people take it they would tend to abandon the heat ray because of its short-ish 24" range and pay for the twin-linked Heavy Gauss Cannon upgrade instead to allow it to sit back a bit and fire at 36"...not the least of which because even if you don't kill the vehicle with that shot the 'marker' ability will still kick in allowing other Necron units waiting to shoot to re-roll their hits against it.
Yeah, Kroothawk is out of town this weekend. I went ahead and added it in to the first post (along with a little bit more clarity on how he is taken in the army and whether or not a Royal Court can be taken with him).
And for people asking for more about the Triarch Stalker, I'm not sure what else I can tell you really! All the really important info has been provided.
Uh, well I suppose I can say that it is BS/WS4, S7, I2 & A3, but really none of that is too important to its function. I would imagine that if people take it they would tend to abandon the heat ray because of its short-ish 24" range and pay for the twin-linked Heavy Gauss Cannon upgrade instead to allow it to sit back a bit and fire at 36"...not the least of which because even if you don't kill the vehicle with that shot the 'marker' ability will still kick in allowing other Necron units waiting to shoot to re-roll their hits against it.
Really? That's odd. I would imagine the Heat Ray to be preferable because of the melta rule. It's S8 AP1 right?
Today let's look more at the 2nd of the 'Cryptek' (in the fluff only -- still just a HQ choice in the army list) named character: Orikan the Diviner.
His fluff is that he is the master 'astromancer' in the Necron race and is roughly equivalent to what Eldrad is to the Eldar (although I think Eldrad is superior to him in terms of future predictions).
Since Orikan knows so much about the future, he tends to treat other Necrons with scorn and disdain and this has made him less than popular and many would like to see him destroyed. Unfortunately, his skills are fare too useful for anyone to actually go through with that.
Unlike a Farseer, it seems as though his ability to predict the future is largely based on sheer calculations of even the smallest minutiae. However, unforeseen events, especially those based around the truly unpredictable nature of the warp can and do confound him. In order to maintain his reputation, he has access to some rare chronomantic abilities, which he uses to actually go backwards in time to change past events slightly to make sure his predictions actually come true.
Of course, every time he does this, naturally all sorts of other terrible unforeseen events also tend to occur based on what he changed in the past, but as long as his prediction came true, he cares little for any other destruction he causes.
Just as with Illuminor Szeras (the other 'Cryptek' named character) he has lesser stats than the Overlord style named characters. He does have a phase shifter though (3++ save).
His weapon is the 'staff of tomorrow' and its basically a staff that hits his opponents an instant before he actually swings it! That means he gets to re-roll 'to hit' and 'to wound' rolls, and it is a power weapon.
He has a special rule called 'Lord of Time' that allows him on one turn (and only one turn) to re-roll all unsuccessful reserve rolls that turn (unsuccessful rolls MUST be rerolled that turn, he doesn't get to choose).
He has another special rule that means all enemy units count as moving through difficult terrain on the first turn and if they are actually moving through difficult terrain then they have to choose the lowest die from the two they roll for difficult terrain. This obviously seems like a good ability to combine with the C'Tan manifestation that makes all difficult terrain count as dangerous!
The last ability he has is called 'The Stars are Right' and basically represents the fact that Orikan has predicted that at some time during the battle the stars will align and he will reclaim a portion of his ancient power (presumably from before when he was a Necontyr). He rolls a D6 at the start of each of his turns and if the die roll is less than or equal to the turn number then he has ascended to his 'empowered' state and gets a totally new statline that has S/T7, A/W4, etc...suspiciously similar to a C'Tan profile some would say.
Of course, you have to keep rolling at the start of each turn and if you ever roll less than or equal to the turn number again, his power recedes and he drops back down to his old statline (which could mean he instantly dies if he had already suffered more wounds than his 'lesser' profile has on it).
Points-wise, this guy is nowhere near as cheap as Illuminor Szeras, but compared to the rest of the named characters, he is still the cheapest.
yakface wrote:
Today let's look more at the 2nd of the 'Cryptek' (in the fluff only -- still just a HQ choice in the army list) named character: Orikan the Diviner.
His fluff is that he is the master 'astromancer' in the Necron race and is roughly equivalent to what Eldrad is to the Eldar (although I think Eldrad is superior to him in terms of future predictions).
Since Orikan knows so much about the future, he tends to treat other Necrons with scorn and disdain and this has made him less than popular and many would like to see him destroyed. Unfortunately, his skills are fare too useful for anyone to actually go through with that.
Unlike a Farseer, it seems as though his ability to predict the future is largely based on sheer calculations of even the smallest minutiae. However, unforeseen events, especially those based around the truly unpredictable nature of the warp can and do confound him. In order to maintain his reputation, he has access to some rare chronomantic abilities, which he uses to actually go backwards in time to change past events slightly to make sure his predictions actually come true.
Of course, every time he does this, naturally all sorts of other terrible unforeseen events also tend to occur based on what he changed in the past, but as long as his prediction came true, he cares little for any other destruction he causes.
Just as with Illuminor Szeras (the other 'Cryptek' named character) he has lesser stats than the Overlord style named characters. He does have a phase shifter though (3++ save).
His weapon is the 'staff of tomorrow' and its basically a staff that hits his opponents an instant before he actually swings it! That means he gets to re-roll 'to hit' and 'to wound' rolls, and it is a power weapon.
He has a special rule called 'Lord of Time' that allows him on one turn (and only one turn) to re-roll all unsuccessful reserve rolls that turn (unsuccessful rolls MUST be rerolled that turn, he doesn't get to choose).
He has another special rule that means all enemy units count as moving through difficult terrain on the first turn and if they are actually moving through difficult terrain then they have to choose the lowest die from the two they roll for difficult terrain. This obviously seems like a good ability to combine with the C'Tan manifestation that makes all difficult terrain count as dangerous!
The last ability he has is called 'The Stars are Right' and basically represents the fact that Orikan has predicted that at some time during the battle the stars will align and he will reclaim a portion of his ancient power (presumably from before when he was a Necontyr). He rolls a D6 at the start of each of his turns and if the die roll is less than or equal to the turn number then he has ascended to his 'empowered' state and gets a totally new statline that has S/T7, A/W4, etc...suspiciously similar to a C'Tan profile some would say.
Of course, you have to keep rolling at the start of each turn and if you ever roll less than or equal to the turn number again, his power recedes and he drops back down to his old statline (which could mean he could instantly die if he had suffered too many wounds at that point).
Points-wise, this guy is nowhere near as cheap as Illuminor Szeras, but compared to the rest of the named characters, he is still the cheapest.
So...he's Doctor Who with an Ego then. Sounds awesome.
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Really? That's odd. I would imagine the Heat Ray to be preferable because of the melta rule. It's S8 AP1 right?
Yes, but your walker is:
A) Slow.
B) Is open-topped.
C) Only has AV13 until the first damage roll against it.
D) You have a 'marker' ability that only works when the Stalker hits its target, which means if it is out of range of its target, then you're not getting the most of its abilities.
E) To utilize the 'Melta' portion of the Heat Ray means you have to be within 12" of your target which likely puts you within melta range of your opponent's guns as well.
So wrap that all together and I would think that even though the Heat Ray's two shots look awesome (not to mention its ability to fire a template when you need it), I would still think you'd typically get more general use out of this walker by taking the longer-ranged weapon.
Could you please tell me if the Army has any other psychic defense besides the Tomb Spiders, i play alot of GK and Eldar armies and i would like to know if things will change or likely stay the same.
Could you please tell me if the Army has any other psychic defense besides the Tomb Spiders, i play alot of GK and Eldar armies and i would like to know if things will change or likely stay the same.
Thank you for your time
Sorry, all I can recommend is that you take a bunch of Tomb Spyders if you're afraid of psychic abilities, but even those are only going to stop psychic attacks against you. You won't be able to do anything against stuff like Fortune that buffs their own units.
The Warp does seem to be something they hate, but I guess that doesn't necessarily mean they have the answer to canceling it out. I suppose if they did, they probably wouldn't hate/fear it so much, would they?
Do you know what the art is like in the codex? That's the 2nd thing I care about the most next to the models LOL!. I hope is has some great art because the old one had some smexy art.
I was just hoping, in Fall of Damnos it seemed like they messed with The Psyker so i was hoping for something like that.
But ok,
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jspyd3rx wrote:Seems there is a lot of potential "what the!" synergy among these units. Can't wait to see what people have come up with in a few months.
Ok well its night fighting so you cant see me to shoot, but now your moving in dangerous terrain, but oh now i can see! and your Land Raider is now Armor 3/3/3, also here comes the lighting!!!!
The last ability he has is called 'The Stars are Right' and basically represents the fact that Orikan has predicted that at some time during the battle the stars will align and he will reclaim a portion of his ancient power (presumably from before when he was a Necontyr). He rolls a D6 at the start of each of his turns and if the die roll is less than or equal to the turn number then he has ascended to his 'empowered' state and gets a totally new statline that has S/T7, A/W4, etc...suspiciously similar to a C'Tan profile some would say.
Of course, you have to keep rolling at the start of each turn and if you ever roll less than or equal to the turn number again, his power recedes and he drops back down to his old statline (which could mean he instantly dies if he had already suffered more wounds than his 'lesser' profile has on it).
Question for clarification:
Is this player turn or game turn?
In other words:
My turn 1...I have to roll less than or equal to 1.
My opponent's turn (no rolling on my part)
My turn 2...I have to roll less than or equal to 3 (3 player turns have gone by).
Or does it ignore the opponent's turn and just go 1, 2, 3, 4? (as opposed to a 1,3,5 or 2,4,6 progression?)
Darligulv wrote:
Question for clarification:
Is this player turn or game turn?
In other words:
My turn 1...I have to roll less than or equal to 1.
My opponent's turn (no rolling on my part)
My turn 2...I have to roll less than or equal to 3 (3 player turns have gone by).
Or does it ignore the opponent's turn and just go 1, 2, 3, 4? (as opposed to a 1,3,5 or 2,4,6 progression?)
Its the turn number. So the first turn of the game, the second turn of the game, etc (i.e. game turns not player turns).
That's a little dissapointing that the named cryptics don't unlock royal courts. Without that ability I doubt people will choose them except in maybe seriously small games like 500. Even then people will probably want a generic overlord first.
Valek wrote:Yakface, anything about the ctan abilities and their statlines?
General rules they have, will they be worth taking?
There's a bit on the front page summary about their abilities already, and the old Blood of Kittens preview from May about the C'Tan abilities is pretty accurate as well.
As for their stats, we discussed it a bit back starting on page 69 (I suppose I should add it to the summary):
Also go check out blood of kittens, badtaste's future tact articles. One regards the c'tan and goes over what their abilities do...the one where difficult terrain counts as dangerous for all units is amazing paired with some of the other things Yakface has told us.
Nothing about the points of the Stalker? Similar to the other vehicles, less, more?
I know it's not the most exciting thing to answer, but it'd be nice to have a ballpark figure.
yakface wrote:
Okay, I've updated the front page with the Orikan info I posted tonight as well as more about the C'Tan statline (well, pretty much all of it).
Thank you very much yakface, that actually answered some really burning questions(t7 ) you really do listen to your followers, your one of a kind! LONG LIVE YAKFACE!!!
Yak, thank you for all the info you have provided. Do you think you could provide some information on the general Overlord? I know a lot of people are might be more interested in special characters, but the generic HQ I am really curious about.
How is his statline differenr(if at all) from the current codex's Necron Lord? Can you provide some info on some wargear that we haven't heard about for him if there is anything new?
Marshal_Hadrial wrote:Yak, thank you for all the info you have provided. Do you think you could provide some information on the general Overlord? I know a lot of people are might be more interested in special characters, but the generic HQ I am really curious about.
How is his statline differenr(if at all) from the current codex's Necron Lord? Can you provide some info on some wargear that we haven't heard about for him if there is anything new?
If its the same as the current codex i think ill be happy but then what about the lords of the court what stat line will they follow im guessing at least a T 5
Yakface wrote that the royal courts model cost was around that of a commissar, but the upgrades cost between 5-45. So what is the regular cost for a commissar? I don't know off the top of my head.
Ixion wrote:I've only skimmed the thread for fluff and photos, but here's my perspective.
To be honest, these new fluff changes do solve some of the problems the Necrons had-- now, they have characters with personality and goals, far more diversity in their various Tomb-world empires, and their books can have quotes from these new characters like all the other books do.
Tragically, a good writer could have achieved ALL of these goals, while maintaining the old fluff and not changing the flavor of the necrons.
Ixion wrote:
However, it also makes them more or less just like every other race: a squabbling, struggling and disparate empire trying to expand and destroy its specific enemies while greedily looking out for its own selfish interests, and we already have those.
^ this.
This also is what I do not like, the personification of the Necrons...yes, now they are just another "race" - just humans in robot suits in space...they lost a lot of their "ancient menace" nature to them. Again, I get some of the need for differentiation, and for plot opportunities - but this all could have been accomplished with better writing (or hiring some with better justification skills) - let the game designers design rules, let (good) writers write fluff.
Oh well, I will be writing my own fluff for my Tomb world....and if the new ctan are not totally gimped, they will be following the Deceiver....on of the coolest characters in 40k...
I am sorry for putting the cat amongst the pigeons but the old Necrons were never appealing to me. there was no pleasure in the hordes of identical models and the fluff was a bit thin, well no it was almost non existant. they were a mahoosive robot army created by godlike aliens sent to destroy everything. no goals other than total annialation, thats boring.
the new models seem to be a bit more individual and have a bit more personality to them. And I like the vehicles. these new necrons are tempting me.
mullet_steve wrote:I am sorry for putting the cat amongst the pigeons but the old Necrons were never appealing to me. there was no pleasure in the hordes of identical models and the fluff was a bit thin, well no it was almost non existant. they were a mahoosive robot army created by godlike aliens sent to destroy everything. no goals other than total annialation, thats boring.
the new models seem to be a bit more individual and have a bit more personality to them. And I like the vehicles. these new necrons are tempting me.
I hope this is the case. As a Tyranid player I am sick and tired of Gaunts. At least I can personalize them a little bit so they all do not look the same. After this and looking at Necrons, they ALL LOOKED THE SAME, wich turned me off them. Now my son wants to start them, and now they look less monotonous I think it's a great time to start them up now.
Since I will be doing most of the painting and modelling I really hope we can make some good dynamic poses for them.
So I just played my (probably final) game with Necrons 3rd edition style vs my friend's DE army. I phased out by the bottom of turn 6 (which isn't bad considering he decided to field 3 venoms, 2 disintegrator ravagers, 2 raiders with disintegrators, haywire scourges, etc). I am so looking forward to being able to compete with an army I find thematically interesting - a shambling horde of robots that are hard to put down and keep down.
So what boxes should i get initially?
I'm thinking 4 or 5 boxes of deathmarks/immortals (i'll assemble appropriately when i read the codex in person) a single command barge (that i will magnetize), 2 or 3 ghost ark kits, the codex, and all the resin figures in singles (but NOT flayed ones). I just sold a bunch of forgeworld stuff and will have about $450 to get new necron stuff, I'm debating on how many lycheguard and praetorian boxes (a dual kit?) to get. I'm thinking enough to field 10 models for each squad to have a full one represented.
What are all of you planning on getting? How hard will it be to proxy some of these funky named lords until we get models for them?
For me, it'll probably be just a codex and the Stormlord and the failcast Overlord (as they are fairly cheap and just cool minis to paint) until I see a FAQ. I'm not doing this "buy a bunch of models and then get the rug pulled out from under me" bit again like I did with Tyranids. That will also give me some time to sell off my Nids. IG and Tau are already sold.
Maelstrom808 wrote:For me, it'll probably be just a codex and the Stormlord and the failcast Overlord (as they are fairly cheap and just cool minis to paint) until I see a FAQ. I'm not doing this "buy a bunch of models and then get the rug pulled out from under me" bit again like I did with Tyranids. That will also give me some time to sell off my Nids. IG and Tau are already sold.
How Ironic...I play 'nids and had the same thing happen. Only for me, i'm stupid enough to do it again, and I'll tell you why - I'm seeing in these rumors many many mucho many more ways to deal with vehicles, tanks, AV, whatever you prefer calling it than 'Nids will ever get. In today's meta game you have to have ranged anti-tank in an army list or you are doomed. Okay maybe not doomed but having anti-tank specialists is quite important. With crypteks, you have the option of making a 5 man court and putting a s8 assault (1 or 2?) weapon in every troop unit you field, not to mention the gauss weaponry all over the place. That fact has me eager to go ahead and put in early for an army that I think will be fun to play, and have competitive tricks and choices (and hopefully remain that way). Not to mention my store offers a 10% discount for pre-paid preorders. With the money I have from selling 3 resin models I will be able to get 3-5 vehicles and over 50 infantry models. I consider that to be a great conversion.
Thanks for the info on Orikan. He sounds pretty neat.
Yak has a pretty good point about the Heavy Gauss Cannon. Looks like the Twin-Linked for the army, is what's important. EDIT: For the Triach Stalker, of course.
At least he's no Slouch in melee! I would hate for him to get tied up in Combat.
Hey guys, not sure if this is news or not, but I just got an email from my favorite online retailer of wargaming products, saying that the price list will be available on Monday (today)!!
Could you please say What the range will be on the tremorstave, good sir yakface? I'm really curious to know how exactly the staff will effect the enemy.
tetrisphreak wrote:So I just played my (probably final) game with Necrons 3rd edition style vs my friend's DE army. I phased out by the bottom of turn 6 (which isn't bad considering he decided to field 3 venoms, 2 disintegrator ravagers, 2 raiders with disintegrators, haywire scourges, etc). I am so looking forward to being able to compete with an army I find thematically interesting - a shambling horde of robots that are hard to put down and keep down.
So what boxes should i get initially?
I'm thinking 4 or 5 boxes of deathmarks/immortals (i'll assemble appropriately when i read the codex in person) a single command barge (that i will magnetize), 2 or 3 ghost ark kits, the codex, and all the resin figures in singles (but NOT flayed ones). I just sold a bunch of forgeworld stuff and will have about $450 to get new necron stuff, I'm debating on how many lycheguard and praetorian boxes (a dual kit?) to get. I'm thinking enough to field 10 models for each squad to have a full one represented.
What are all of you planning on getting? How hard will it be to proxy some of these funky named lords until we get models for them?
Did he Tailor his list for you, with all those Disintegraters? Not to sound like a Jerk, but it seems like it.
Just from what I've read so far, it seems like Stormlord Armies are going to be very good against DE armies. They rely so much on Alpha Strike, and with the Stormlords 4+ to Seize, and his Night fighting rules, it's going to be quite the combo IMO.
I just had a thought. Space Marines get a psychic power that inflicts 1 automatic glancing hit with 24" range.
Obviously this isn't used much at the moment, but the ability to strip Quantum Shielding from a Necron vehicle at 24" with just a Psychic Test and a BS test could be quite valuable.
Chrysis wrote:I just had a thought. Space Marines get a psychic power that inflicts 1 automatic glancing hit with 24" range.
Obviously this isn't used much at the moment, but the ability to strip Quantum Shielding from a Necron vehicle at 24" with just a Psychic Test and a BS test could be quite valuable.
Not something I think we'll see in All Comers lists though.
tetrisphreak wrote:So I just played my (probably final) game with Necrons 3rd edition style vs my friend's DE army. I phased out by the bottom of turn 6 (which isn't bad considering he decided to field 3 venoms, 2 disintegrator ravagers, 2 raiders with disintegrators, haywire scourges, etc). I am so looking forward to being able to compete with an army I find thematically interesting - a shambling horde of robots that are hard to put down and keep down.
So what boxes should i get initially?
I'm thinking 4 or 5 boxes of deathmarks/immortals (i'll assemble appropriately when i read the codex in person) a single command barge (that i will magnetize), 2 or 3 ghost ark kits, the codex, and all the resin figures in singles (but NOT flayed ones). I just sold a bunch of forgeworld stuff and will have about $450 to get new necron stuff, I'm debating on how many lycheguard and praetorian boxes (a dual kit?) to get. I'm thinking enough to field 10 models for each squad to have a full one represented.
What are all of you planning on getting? How hard will it be to proxy some of these funky named lords until we get models for them?
Did he Tailor his list for you, with all those Disintegraters? Not to sound like a Jerk, but it seems like it.
Just from what I've read so far, it seems like Stormlord Armies are going to be very good against DE armies. They rely so much on Alpha Strike, and with the Stormlords 4+ to Seize, and his Night fighting rules, it's going to be quite the combo IMO.
Well, somewhat mitigated by pretty much all DE having night vision. Still a big obstacle, but bumps the average sighting distance up a bit. Not as bad as if it were an IG army, for instance.
Funny that you used to be able to buy Scarab bitz at $5 for 8 Scarabs, now there are none... I only need enough for 9 more so that I can field my full 30 bases.
I have 3,000 points of current crons waiting in hibernation and now about half will be usable. Too many new models to buy, but at least they look good.
Ixion wrote:
I've only skimmed the thread for fluff and photos, but here's my perspective.
To be honest, these new fluff changes do solve some of the problems the Necrons had-- now, they have characters with personality and goals, far more diversity in their various Tomb-world empires, and their books can have quotes from these new characters like all the other books do.
davethepak wrote
Tragically, a good writer could have achieved ALL of these goals, while maintaining the old fluff and not changing the flavor of the necrons.
Actually a bad writer could easily have done it!
Just leave it all the same but have some newly awakend tomb worlds regain their independance and voila old fluff and feel intact and all who want have full freedom of new dex, was abolsutely no need to spoil old feel for new (
that is 1 of the 3 things that broke this codex for me instead of making it, the other 2 being :
1) our troops should have been fearless (if immortal mindless automatons can run away, no one should have justifible fearlessness!) Slow and purposefull would be a good fit as well.
2) we cant teleport out of combat anymore with vod/monolith. How can some units hit and RUN from combat, yet teleport is so slow it cant? again doesnt make sense in any way and breaks the feel/utility of necrons a lot.
If wasnt for this i would love the new dex instead of probably giving up on the game (since necrons were my only interest and they have killed the feel of them for me - will wait to see but if what has been revealed is true, they killed necrons and added tomb kings in space).
There is too much nerfing and altering armies instead of just adding to them lately (players will still buy new shinies, no need to kill it for others and lose players!). Players should look forward to a new dex, not dread it!
Valek wrote:huh, destroyers not viable anymore, they get cheaper and the guns get ap3, me thinks this will fill most of the fa slot you will see
They also dropped from 5 model squads to 3, and went from a possible 15 shots down to 6. Compared to what the wraiths and scarabs are bringing, this isn't totally bad, but still lackluster.
It would also have been nice for that "ever-living" rule to have been extended to Destroyer cult units. It would make sense to reduce them to smaller squads if those units always had the chance to get back up. Have Destroyers been confirmed to maintain the single wound or did they gain a wound along with Wraiths?
Wraiths can indeed be very good but they will need an army tailored to it.
Altough i can see a full wraith fa doing some horrific things when combined with ctan and destroyer lords.
Valek wrote:Wraiths can indeed be very good but they will need an army tailored to it.
Altough i can see a full wraith fa doing some horrific things when combined with ctan and destroyer lords.
Why do you think you need to Tailor an Army for Wraiths? they can fill a number of roles in any matchup.
Wratih/destroyer lord builds are vicious even in the current codex
Even with the nerfs to the C'tan (new abilities should help offset this) and the loss of the Wraith's current jetbike turboboosting speed the wraith upgrades and new max unit size should make them a very rough combat unit.
Ascalam wrote:Wratih/destroyer lord builds are vicious even in the current codex
Even with the nerfs to the C'tan (new abilities should help offset this) and the loss of the Wraith's current jetbike turboboosting speed the wraith upgrades and new max unit size should make them a very rough combat unit.
*edit for clarity*
The C'tan also had a massive point decrease.
I think we'll predominantly see Scarabs/Wraiths taking the FA slot. It seems like Wraiths are just good at everything!
Anyone know how to paint the cool sort of green/obsidian thing they've got going on the Lychguard shields and swords? I really want to practice getting the technique down.
I was reading the wording for the storm lord and I would like someone to clarify something for me. It says "start of the Necron Shooting phase you roll a D6 for each unengaged enemy unit and on a roll of '6' suffer D6 S8 AP5 hits (as they are hit by lightning strikes)."
Do I take that to mean when I roll a new d6 for hits that that number counts as how many hits I role for wounds or do I roll that many die to see how many are hits?
I know that probably reads weird so if anyone needs me to explain it better just say so.
hollowmirror wrote:I was reading the wording for the storm lord and I would like someone to clarify something for me. It says "start of the Necron Shooting phase you roll a D6 for each unengaged enemy unit and on a roll of '6' suffer D6 S8 AP5 hits (as they are hit by lightning strikes)."
Do I take that to mean when I roll a new d6 for hits that that number counts as how many hits I role for wounds or do I roll that many die to see how many are hits?
I know that probably reads weird so if anyone needs me to explain it better just say so.
I am interpreting it to mean you roll to wound D6 times at Str 8. I believe this is how the Monolith worked with its Gauss Flux Arc. Everything in its range was an auto-hit, but you rolled D6 to determine how many times.
hollowmirror wrote:I was reading the wording for the storm lord and I would like someone to clarify something for me. It says "start of the Necron Shooting phase you roll a D6 for each unengaged enemy unit and on a roll of '6' suffer D6 S8 AP5 hits (as they are hit by lightning strikes)."
Do I take that to mean when I roll a new d6 for hits that that number counts as how many hits I role for wounds or do I roll that many die to see how many are hits?
I know that probably reads weird so if anyone needs me to explain it better just say so.
I am interpreting it to mean you roll to wound D6 times at Str 8. I believe this is how the Monolith worked with its Gauss Flux Arc. Everything in its range was an auto-hit, but you rolled D6 to determine how many times.
Don't think it did tbh? It said it fires d6 shots at an enemy, you still need to roll to hit and wound
For as far as the lightning lord is concerned I expect it to mean that you at least have to roll to wound. 'Suffer' is an odd choice of words
hollowmirror wrote:I was reading the wording for the storm lord and I would like someone to clarify something for me. It says "start of the Necron Shooting phase you roll a D6 for each unengaged enemy unit and on a roll of '6' suffer D6 S8 AP5 hits (as they are hit by lightning strikes)."
Do I take that to mean when I roll a new d6 for hits that that number counts as how many hits I role for wounds or do I roll that many die to see how many are hits?
I know that probably reads weird so if anyone needs me to explain it better just say so.
I am interpreting it to mean you roll to wound D6 times at Str 8. I believe this is how the Monolith worked with its Gauss Flux Arc. Everything in its range was an auto-hit, but you rolled D6 to determine how many times.
Don't think it did tbh? It said it fires d6 shots at an enemy, you still need to roll to hit and wound
For as far as the lightning lord is concerned I expect it to mean that you at least have to roll to wound. 'Suffer' is an odd choice of words
Yeah, you definately roll for wounds. I just haven't been sure since it says suffers d6 hits. It makes it sounds to me like they d6 tells me they've been hit 5 times so roll 5 d6 for wounding.
Wraiths in fa are good, but so far the rumours, pretorians can be armed with rendingswords and get a 3++ also, Jumptroops and T5 unit. Think that will be a big contender, depending however on how much points the wraiths will come in with the lash whips...
Huh. I might be wrong, but the way I read it is you roll a d6 first, to see if lightning strikes that unit. If you get a '6', you roll again to see how many S8 lightning bolts hit it.
So it doesn't just hit every unit with a whole unit of Longfangs every turn. That might be a little overpowered.
yakface wrote:This war agains the C'Tan weakened the Necrons overall so much they decided to go into stasis to avoid the vengeance of the Eldar (the C'Tan had killed the Old Ones, but not all their children).
yakface wrote:Oh, and the biggest rival of the Necrons is now actually the Altaoic (sp?) Craftworld. Apparently they are the only Eldar who stayed true on the original path to seek out and destroy Necron Tomb Worlds while the rest of the Eldar got all caught up and destroyed in their decadence and then the Fall. Altaoic rangers have traveled the galaxy far and wide over the millennia (ever since the Necrons went to sleep) to track down and destroy or hamper Tomb Worlds from reawakening.
yakface wrote:The Warp does seem to be something they hate, but I guess that doesn't necessarily mean they have the answer to canceling it out. I suppose if they did, they probably wouldn't hate/fear it so much, would they?
So Yakface, do you get an impression from the codex fluff that the Necrons now fear the Eldar? I always liked how it was the other way around (that the Necrons were an ancient enemy of Eldar myths that they were determined to keep asleep)
I don't think they really fear the Eldar, they just didn't have the resources to engage them at the time. They did just fight gods and win, they were weakened and couldn't handle another war right after that, so they decided to sleep.
I must say, LessThanHappyJester, I much preferred when no one knew what the hell the Necrons were, and those that did know were terrified of the thought of them reawakening. Whenever the Imperium came across something Necron and made terrible choices because they didn't realize what they were unleashing, that was the Necrons I liked. The Deceiver playing games, the dead worlds with mysterious structures, the relics and artifacts, all of the mystery about them.
Now I feel like the average Imperial would look at something and say "Oh, that's obviously Necron in origin."
Valek wrote:Wraiths in fa are good, but so far the rumours, pretorians can be armed with rendingswords and get a 3++ also, Jumptroops and T5 unit. Think that will be a big contender, depending however on how much points the wraiths will come in with the lash whips...
The updated summary Yak posted doesn't have anything about the Praetorians having a 3++, so I don't think they will. It sounded like from the first rumor summary, that was the Dispersion shields for the Lycheguard.
The Deceiver playing games, the dead worlds with mysterious structures, the relics and artifacts, all of the mystery about them.
Yeah, I do have to admit that's the most disappointing thing about the update, but Necrons had already lost most of their mystery with the last codex anyway.
Maelstrom808 wrote:For me, it'll probably be just a codex and the Stormlord and the failcast Overlord (as they are fairly cheap and just cool minis to paint) until I see a FAQ. I'm not doing this "buy a bunch of models and then get the rug pulled out from under me" bit again like I did with Tyranids. That will also give me some time to sell off my Nids. IG and Tau are already sold.
How Ironic...I play 'nids and had the same thing happen. Only for me, i'm stupid enough to do it again, and I'll tell you why - I'm seeing in these rumors many many mucho many more ways to deal with vehicles, tanks, AV, whatever you prefer calling it than 'Nids will ever get. In today's meta game you have to have ranged anti-tank in an army list or you are doomed. Okay maybe not doomed but having anti-tank specialists is quite important. With crypteks, you have the option of making a 5 man court and putting a s8 assault (1 or 2?) weapon in every troop unit you field, not to mention the gauss weaponry all over the place. That fact has me eager to go ahead and put in early for an army that I think will be fun to play, and have competitive tricks and choices (and hopefully remain that way). Not to mention my store offers a 10% discount for pre-paid preorders. With the money I have from selling 3 resin models I will be able to get 3-5 vehicles and over 50 infantry models. I consider that to be a great conversion.
I think it will end up being a perfectly competative codex. It's just that I have seriously curbed the money I'm spending on 40k. I've decided to keep one army rather than 4-5. This means that when I buy models for a particular build, I'd like to make sure that they operate as I believed they would, for as long as possible. In the meantime, I'm having a blast with Dust Tactics.
It's less than 2 weeks to 5th and there is still no confirmation from GW - growing afraid again :(
How long 'til usual WD release date? Should be this week if not now...
Herr Dexter wrote:It's less than 2 weeks to 5th and there is still no confirmation from GW - growing afraid again :(
How long 'til usual WD release date? Should be this week if not now...
This should probably be posted on the front page, since a lot of people are asking.
GW's new release policy is to Put up Preorder the Last Saturday of the Month (When WD hits the shelves) then the actual release date is the First Saturday of the following month.
So, Preorders will go up on the 29th, and the Release will be the 5th of November.
Herr Dexter wrote:It's less than 2 weeks to 5th and there is still no confirmation from GW - growing afraid again :(
How long 'til usual WD release date? Should be this week if not now...
I actually went into the local GW and they confirmed new necron models to be in stock by the 5th.
Aye, the shop usually has the White Dwarf on the Friday, so far anyways, Dreadfleet wasn't late last month, think John Menzies distrubution is just sending it out as normal.
I always liked the look of the Necrons. The models look really fantastic and I sure almost everybody thinks about starting a Necron army. But I guess we'll soon realize that the new Necrons will be beatable, too.
tetrisphreak wrote:So I just played my (probably final) game with Necrons 3rd edition style vs my friend's DE army. I phased out by the bottom of turn 6 (which isn't bad considering he decided to field 3 venoms, 2 disintegrator ravagers, 2 raiders with disintegrators, haywire scourges, etc). I am so looking forward to being able to compete with an army I find thematically interesting - a shambling horde of robots that are hard to put down and keep down.
Did he Tailor his list for you, with all those Disintegraters? Not to sound like a Jerk, but it seems like it.
Just from what I've read so far, it seems like Stormlord Armies are going to be very good against DE armies. They rely so much on Alpha Strike, and with the Stormlords 4+ to Seize, and his Night fighting rules, it's going to be quite the combo IMO.
Oh yes he most definitely did tailor his list - It's his playstyle though. He thinks he is a better player than me because lately he wins with his DE more than not...but I think it's just because he takes hard counters to whatever army I happen to be playing at the time.
My space wolves used to wipe the grin from his face fairly regularly, even if it was a longfang/razorspam list. I don't have that army anymore, but I do have my lovely 'Crons and I'm hoping that with this update i can wipe that dumb grin from his face yet again.
Otherwise you have no "firing model" to determine if you get cover from it, so can never be in cover - so vehicles would only get cover from SoS, SC, KFF and similar.
Will probably pop into my local GW store on Saturday to work on the paint jobs of my current Necron warriors and my Monolith, but will probably pre-order either a Doomsday Ark/Barge for some conversion the following week, or a unit of Deathmarks and a SC - possibly Orikan if available as my silver-leaf coated nightbringer could work to make his abilities much more useful (As Yak mentioned in his post about Orikan), either that or the Stormlord as many have also said.
On the whole I am stoked about the new releses as up to now I have been more a modeller than a gamer, but have started thinking about actually playing rather than buying whatever model screams "Shiny, Shiny!" at me the loudest from the shelf. And as luck would have it, the collection of models from the same army that I decided to look at learning the game with was .............. Necrons.
So learning has taken a bit of a back seat to re-painting all that I had to my current standard, ready to take my 30 warriors, 3 destroyers, 1 heavy destroyer, 1 destroyer lord, 2 wraiths, 2 tomb spyders, 9 bases of scarabs, monolith, and Nightbringer to battle under the new codex.
I shall do without the new codex for a while, using the store copy, until I am sure I will continue gaming with the army. Then I shall look at getting the new codex and more of the models. I am especially looking forward to getting a look at the flyers, although I am also concerned that I will not be able to resist the DE bomber when it comes out (roumored to be February, I believe)
angelshade00 wrote:Getting cover from a lightning bolt in the face? That doesn't sound right... Unless you're in a building maybe...
Standing in area terrain provides a 4+ cover save regardless of where the attack is originating from. It might not sound right from a real life perspective but that's how the rules system is right now.
Hopefully 6th edition will see an end to 4+ cover saves everywhere and go to a 5+ cover system.
angelshade00 wrote:Getting cover from a lightning bolt in the face? That doesn't sound right... Unless you're in a building maybe...
Standing in area terrain provides a 4+ cover save regardless of where the attack is originating from. It might not sound right from a real life perspective but that's how the rules system is right now.
Hopefully 6th edition will see an end to 4+ cover saves everywhere and go to a 5+ cover system.
I admit looking at this from a real life perspective... Let's hope the Stormlord's rules clarify that part.
Herr Dexter wrote:It's less than 2 weeks to 5th and there is still no confirmation from GW - growing afraid again :(
How long 'til usual WD release date? Should be this week if not now...
White Dwarf is last saturday of the month in UK- that will be the 29th. Then Necrons will be in shops on the 5th.
Oh, oh, oh! Cool vid!
Anyways, I've got a question regarding the Lycheguard with Dispersion Shields.
They grant a 4++ yeah? So, in order to be able to redirect shot with the shield, you'd have to take the 4++ instead of the 3+, resulting in a worse save, but with the chance of redirecting..?
Isn't that a bit cruel, choosing between a 3+ and a 4++ with redirection?
I really couldn't care less to be honest. We already knew the Necrons were coming, that GW has just said so in a really mysterious video doesn't really change anything IMHO.
Just Dave wrote:I really couldn't care less to be honest. We already knew the Necrons were coming, that GW has just said so in a really mysterious video doesn't really change anything IMHO.
We know. But now, Games Workshop employees at their storefronts can direct customers expressing an interest in Necrons to the site's "What's New?" and start building up hype.
Just Dave wrote:I really couldn't care less to be honest. We already knew the Necrons were coming, that GW has just said so in a really mysterious video doesn't really change anything IMHO.
A bunch of people on internet forums know. The majority of the player base is now receiving hints.
That aside, that video has me absolutely STOKED for getting the codex, the new fluff seems to make sense with that one line.
Just Dave wrote:I really couldn't care less to be honest. We already knew the Necrons were coming, that GW has just said so in a really mysterious video doesn't really change anything IMHO.
A bunch of people on internet forums know. The majority of the player base is now receiving hints.
That aside, that video has me absolutely STOKED for getting the codex, the new fluff seems to make sense with that one line.
Order. Unity. Obedience.
I know! That's what makes me excited!
There was some talk earlier about the Necrons not being ordered, since they are bunch of independent kingdoms now, and that got me very worried.
I was reading through the equivalent thread on Warseer, and Bramgaunt was making a lot of references to some rules that will make more sense in 6th, like The Deathmarks, and Preferred Enemy on the Destroyers.
army310 wrote:Ya I think it will the eldar on 29th not the the Necrons. Like they will be hahaha trick you guys.
Well, the teaser certainly did sound like it could be either. . and if you look at that symbol closely as it flashes:
It does look a lot like:
And now I am very very worried.
Thank you for that
I wouldn't be too worried, as it mostly looks like the pseudo-ankh that the necrons have everywhere. It only really looks like the craftworld emblem if you've recently suffered a severe head injury.
The Cornerfag~ wrote:Oh, oh, oh! Cool vid!
Anyways, I've got a question regarding the Lycheguard with Dispersion Shields.
They grant a 4++ yeah? So, in order to be able to redirect shot with the shield, you'd have to take the 4++ instead of the 3+, resulting in a worse save, but with the chance of redirecting..?
Isn't that a bit cruel, choosing between a 3+ and a 4++ with redirection?
How about weapons which ignore armour?
Then you use your invun, and get the redirect as a bonus.
The Cornerfag~ wrote:Oh, oh, oh! Cool vid!
Anyways, I've got a question regarding the Lycheguard with Dispersion Shields.
They grant a 4++ yeah? So, in order to be able to redirect shot with the shield, you'd have to take the 4++ instead of the 3+, resulting in a worse save, but with the chance of redirecting..?
Isn't that a bit cruel, choosing between a 3+ and a 4++ with redirection?
How about weapons which ignore armour?
Then you use your invun, and get the redirect as a bonus.
No, I think he wants to know that if you get hit by a weapon that DOESN'T ignore armor (like bolters), will he have to take the 4++ save to redirect.
I think you are still allowed to use the 3+ and redirect, since it says "saved wounds" and doesn't specify.
The Cornerfag~ wrote:Oh, oh, oh! Cool vid!
Anyways, I've got a question regarding the Lycheguard with Dispersion Shields.
They grant a 4++ yeah? So, in order to be able to redirect shot with the shield, you'd have to take the 4++ instead of the 3+, resulting in a worse save, but with the chance of redirecting..?
Isn't that a bit cruel, choosing between a 3+ and a 4++ with redirection?
How about weapons which ignore armour?
Then you use your invun, and get the redirect as a bonus.
No, I think he wants to know that if you get hit by a weapon that DOESN'T ignore armor (like bolters), will he have to take the 4++ save to redirect.
I think you are still allowed to use the 3+ and redirect, since it says "saved wounds" and doesn't specify.
Yes, that's exactly what I wondered! And I hope you're right on the question too! ^^
Brother SRM wrote:Better late than never, I suppose? If they dropped this at the beginning of October or in September, it would have been more effective.
If all this information hadn't been leaked, it would have been more effective.
As I said though. It's not "for us". It's for the folks who don't spend time on these forums, who don't actively seek out rumors, and generally are content with not knowing every single detail.
Kesher's Link wrote:Well I just got all the information on the new Necrons from Games Workshop (such as pricing and units available), and it's pretty sweet.
We can't say much about the information on here, because of my trade sales agreement that I respect for the sake of all retailers around the world.
We can however say that there are some units making a return from the old book, some that didn't make the new release, and some coming back in FINECAST!
We can also take pre-orders over the phone, for anything you may be wanting to pick up for the new release.
Everything is set to come out on November 5th like we have been hearing about, and the official GW public announcement looks like it will be October 29th according to the video below.
So check out the Games Workshop's site then for all the official news, pictures, and more.
For now you can stop by the store or call 804-464-1873 to Pre-Order anything you may be interested in.
GW also released this teaser video today. Enjoy -MBG
The above are the Necron items we should have in stock by Nov 5. Any other items are either releasing later in the month or are finecast. We are working to get Necron finecast items in stock, but I am not sure that we will have access to them. The above is all the Necrons we can take orders for right now.
If you would like to place an order please give us a phone call or email us a list of what you would like to get and we can email you a quote. We will set up preorders to bill in early November.
Praxiss wrote:in fairness, if you coudl field ACTUAL C'Tan, their stats (not to mention their points cost) would be horrific. i mean, they're gods! You'd have to look at Apoc Gargantuan creture kind of states!
At least with the shards you can gve them non-game brakign stats and explain by saying they are just a small piece of the god in question.
This is not necessarily the case. As I have stated before, creative quality writing could have easily met all the goals for the new codex.
Here are my perceived goals;
1 - Give the ctan tabletop stats that are not godlike, but make sense fluff wise.
2 - give lords more personality and focus
This EASILY could have been done.
For example;
The star gods are all powerful...on their scale of time and space.
Sure, the Deceiver could halt fusion in the heart of a sun...it takes him two thousand years to do it....a mere blink of an eye in the galactic scale (the scale they live in, and have lived in for BILLIONS of years). If the deceiver wanted to kill everyone on earth, he would travel to the core, and dissolve the magnetic field over the course of two thousand years.
Thats the power of star gods. Or he would bathe them with radiation that would kill them in a generation...this is how beings of that magnitude work.
However, when they have their essence condensed and forced into a micro form (the living metal body) they have a hard time focusing their attention and power at such a small scale. They are not used to focusing energies to the size of a tank or a man, or even a city...they are used to manipulating solar flares and black holes over thousands of years.
Certainly, then can affect the world at that level...and their statlines represent that. Just as an olympic weight lifter would have a hard time using a mirco screwdriver that is only the size of his fingernail...it is not easy to focus on that scale.
They are never killed in battle, their containment bodies are breached....letting them out, and it may take them years to change forms....beings that live for billions of years do not operate with logic or methods that we can relate to.
Also, the ctan, being virtually ageless....would they care about any one planet? The deceiver likes to build plans that may take thousands of years to unfold.
Maybe he wanted the necrons to ally with the blood angels....as part of a plan that will make sense in warhammer 45k. He is millions of years old....we have less of a chance to comprehend any single event in their scale than an ant would understand the words on a computer screen inside the house his anthill sits near.
Also, on the lords;
With more tomb worlds opening, and without the logistical and communications network the old empire had, the ctan have to give more autonomy to the necron lords.
They can't be everywhere at once, so need a more decentralized command structure. Heck, it might even suit the whims of some of the ctan to let them compete against one another or go off on their own directions (or think they are) at times...after all, how well can anyone comprehend the tactical plan of a being older than the human race itself. Maybe one lord is getting off the master plan....he can be delt with in another 10,000 years....
Sure, this is just an example, something I whipped up in about 90 seconds....it has minor issues and holes in it, but the point is with creative writing the old fluff could have been maintained, new mechanical goals met, and this is just a rough draft.
Again, GW has some great rule writers, and some guys who are great writers for the black library....what they need are codex writers who are good a continuity and justification.
On sunday I played with my necrons using the new rules. I used my old list with the points reduced and updated, making some assumptions and using old rules.
I used:
Necron Lord (using the old cost and rules)
10 Necron warriorsx2
10 immortals
3 Destroyers with heavy gaussx2
10 scarabs
2 Tomb Spyders
The Monolith
We played seized ground and dawn of war deployment. The necrons did a really good job...did I mention it was against IG?
Kanluwen wrote:If all this information hadn't been leaked, it would have been more effective.
As I said though. It's not "for us". It's for the folks who don't spend time on these forums, who don't actively seek out rumors, and generally are content with not knowing every single detail.
You really will defend anything they do, won't you?
The truth is GW could have revealed all this stuff ages ago, started using their website and their magazine to build hype, show off the models, show battle reports, do bits of fiction, have the designers talk about the new direction, and so on. They didn't. Instead they got angry that someone leaked it, sent C&D's, and put up a crappy video.
Kanluwen wrote:If all this information hadn't been leaked, it would have been more effective.
As I said though. It's not "for us". It's for the folks who don't spend time on these forums, who don't actively seek out rumors, and generally are content with not knowing every single detail.
You really will defend anything they do, won't you?
You really will decry anything, won't you?
The truth is GW could have revealed all this stuff ages ago, started using their website and their magazine to build hype, show off the models, show battle reports, do bits of fiction, have the designers talk about the new direction, and so on. They didn't. Instead they got angry that someone leaked it, sent C&D's, and put up a crappy video.
Gee. A company getting angry that someone(likely under a NDA) leaked something.
It's almost as if there's a contract in place that was breached!
I said in the other thread on this topic that it's not necessarily a good tactic. It's their tactic however.
H.B.M.C. wrote:The truth is GW could have revealed all this stuff ages ago, started using their website and their magazine to build hype, show off the models, show battle reports, do bits of fiction, have the designers talk about the new direction, and so on. They didn't. Instead they got angry that someone leaked it, sent C&D's, and put up a crappy video.
This is the heart of the issue for me. GW put a staggering amount of effort into anti-marketing that you wonder what they could achieve if they redirected their energies into proper promotional activity.
Welp, just pre-ordered the codex, 20 Immortals and 10 Lychguard at my LGS to suppliment what I already have....early x-mas present from my Brother in Law.
davethepak wrote:
Also, on the lords;
With more tomb worlds opening, and without the logistical and communications network the old empire had, the ctan have to give more autonomy to the necron lords.
They can't be everywhere at once, so need a more decentralized command structure. Heck, it might even suit the whims of some of the ctan to let them compete against one another or go off on their own directions (or think they are) at times...after all, how well can anyone comprehend the tactical plan of a being older than the human race itself. Maybe one lord is getting off the master plan....he can be delt with in another 10,000 years....
This. I never really liked the C'Tan being thrown out of the picture, and created exactly this image you just described in my mind, that, in my opinion might have suited the Necron fluff more.
No unhappy old Necron players whining about their fluff destroyed, and still more personality and individualism in order for players to theme their armies around.
I still prefer the old fluff (in general) but I keep an open mind. After all, everything changes.
tetrisphreak wrote:Who won? What was the kill point tally?
I won, One of the objectives was mine and I contested the second one with scarabs.
I killed...at least 30 IG's plus 2 leman russes and a valkyria.
He killed all but one of my destroyers, 6 Immortals, My first necron warrior squad and my Monolith
Really? Holy crap, that's pretty impressive.
...you remembered that Immortals are only T4 now, right?
Yes, and the Gauss Blaster is Rapid Fire. The Destroyers killed the 2 leman russes, the scarabs ate up the valkyria leaving it at -5 AV(!!!) and the monolith was the one responsible for the 30 IG's
Also a Quimera was Immobilized and shaken on turn 1 by the Warrior Squad that had taken one of the points.
He then proceeded to template my ass off but I still won 1 Objective to none
tetrisphreak wrote:Who won? What was the kill point tally?
I won, One of the objectives was mine and I contested the second one with scarabs.
I killed...at least 30 IG's plus 2 leman russes and a valkyria.
He killed all but one of my destroyers, 6 Immortals, My first necron warrior squad and my Monolith
Really? Holy crap, that's pretty impressive.
...you remembered that Immortals are only T4 now, right?
Yes, and the Gauss Blaster is Rapid Fire. The Destroyers killed the 2 leman russes, the scarabs ate up the valkyria leaving it at -5 AV(!!!) and the monolith was the one responsible for the 30 IG's
Also a Quimera was Immobilized and shaken on turn 1 by the Warrior Squad that had taken one of the points.
He then proceeded to template my ass off but I still won 1 Objective to none
Oh wow...That's pretty damn good.
I think it's safe to say now that the crons are playable again.
Oh wow...That's pretty damn good.
I think it's safe to say now that the crons are playable again.
Probably, yes, maybe I was just lucky. After the destroyers died, though, I didn't really have any anti-tank units and he still had 2 Chimeras and 2 Leman Russ. I misplaced the monolith and he was victim to melta and exploded on the only die that penetrated(lucky...)
Also I didn't field more scarabs...because I only have 10. Lets hope that with krypteks and more scarabs we can have a final decision. Though after I fielded all that I still had 150 pts left
The above are the Necron items we should have in stock by Nov 5. Any other items are either releasing later in the month or are finecast. We are working to get Necron finecast items in stock, but I am not sure that we will have access to them. The above is all the Necrons we can take orders for right now.
If you would like to place an order please give us a phone call or email us a list of what you would like to get and we can email you a quote. We will set up preorders to bill in early November.
Any one been in contact with them to find out if the immortal and lychguard kits are dual kits?
Brother SRM wrote:Better late than never, I suppose? If they dropped this at the beginning of October or in September, it would have been more effective.
If all this information hadn't been leaked, it would have been more effective.
As I said though. It's not "for us". It's for the folks who don't spend time on these forums, who don't actively seek out rumors, and generally are content with not knowing every single detail.
Do you really think that there are such people? People who don't visit discussion forums like this one, but still poke around in every corner of the official GW site?
Sounds like a stretch to me. Surely there are people who don't pursue online news, but their embargo probably covers forums and the games-workshop.com equally, and they stick to brick-and-mortar shop talk to acquire fresh info.
).
Seriously, the 'Nids codex isn't all that bad... At least in my mind, it's miles better than the Astartes Marine book...
around these damn machines
I've just seen a teaser video on the