Brother SRM wrote:Better late than never, I suppose? If they dropped this at the beginning of October or in September, it would have been more effective.
If all this information hadn't been leaked, it would have been more effective.
As I said though. It's not "for us". It's for the folks who don't spend time on these forums, who don't actively seek out rumors, and generally are content with not knowing every single detail.
Do you really think that there are such people? People who don't visit discussion forums like this one, but still poke around in every corner of the official GW site?
Sounds like a stretch to me. Surely there are people who don't pursue online news, but their embargo probably covers forums and the games-workshop.com equally, and they stick to brick-and-mortar shop talk to acquire fresh info.
Yes, lots. I know a lot of people who check the daily news, in fact everyone does it in my store unless they're really young or new, I used to look at the daily news every day and that was long before I joined this forum. The guys in the store put it up on the in-store computer as well, pretty much everyone coming in and out will be able to see this new video when they walk in. I would guess that most people will get the newsletter due to using the online store too. This is circulate now, believe me.
The Stormlord's lightning strikes don't specify that they ignore cover, but as has been pointed out, there really isn't a 'firing' model with these attacks, so its probably a case of only units actually in cover getting a cover save.
The Lychguard's shield rule does specify that the shooting redirect only happens when they actually pass the 4++ save (as opposed to their regular 3+ save).
Anpu-adom wrote:@Yakface
Can you share more information on the Lord's Wargear?
We haven't heard anything on the Sempirternal Weave or the Tesserect Labyrinth.
(And Can someone PLEASE add these words to the Dakka Dictionary tool?!?)
I am pretty sure Sempirtenal Weave is an upgrade to a 2+ save, and my guess is Tesserect Labyrinth is a re-roll to hit or wound.
yakface wrote:
The Stormlord's lightning strikes don't specify that they ignore cover, but as has been pointed out, there really isn't a 'firing' model with these attacks, so its probably a case of only units actually in cover getting a cover save.
The Lychguard's shield rule does specify that the shooting redirect only happens when they actually pass the 4++ save (as opposed to their regular 3+ save).
Can I choose to always just take the 4++ then? :p Well, when it benefits the rule anyway.
Back in town. Was on the biggest European games fair. Battlefoam Romeo, Alessio Calvatore, and Larry Elmore present.
On the trip I had some time to read the novel "Fall of Damnos" by Nick Kyme. Hating all the Space Marine pathetic talk. But the novel definitely gives you a first glimpse on the new Necron background. The Lords have personality, the flayers and destructors have the desease, crypteks and Lychguard are introduced, one Necron Lord wields storms and lightning. Any Necron fan should read it.
Some tidbits by Bramgaunt over at Warseer:
Afaik, no. Nothing is supposed to happen this weekend. Preorders should start with the WD next saturday.
However, due to the leak, GW retail stores have started to accept preorders already and are showing pictures and infos on a handout. Therefor they might be showing them 'early'.
(...)
Both C'tan models will be redone in finecast, 5th of November. Both C'tan sculpts and both the current Lord Models will be redone in Finecast aswell. Destroyerlord and Heavy Destroyer remain a Plastic/Metal Hybrid Kit for the time being.
(..)
We also keep forgetting it's a 6th Edition Codex. Destroyers with Preferred Enemy show that pretty good. Some things will appear strange or won't make any sense at all.
(...)
I also forsee, as I said befor, that the full potential of the new Codex will show with the 6th Edition rules. Otherwise I cannot explain several things. Like the Destroyers. Or the rapid fire sniperrifles. If what I heard is true, Deathmarks will be a real pain in the ass starting July.
(...)
Units may shoot once immediately after a deep strike movement.
Rapid fire weapons may be fired twice at max range if shooting unit didn't move that turn, or once at maxrange/twice at 12" if they moved.
Preferred enemy will work on shooting.
Take it with a lot of salt, though.
ghost21 wrote:only with overwatch
T7 or T8 won't make that much of a difference come July. Same goes for the Gauss ability to wound everything, no matter what the toughness.
And:
Bramgaunt wrote:We go through the same 5 stages as with any new Codex.
First: Denial
Ah, they got postponed again... I don't believe it...
Second: Anger.
Oh no! Mat Ward again. It's going to be a total desaster!!
Third: Bargaining.
Couldn't we get some Space Marine treatment? Why don't I have a 3+ Armoursave anymore? there is a 2,47835% chance, that's 1,7263% less than befor!
Fourth: Depression
Ah well, we're stuck with a crappy book for another 8 years... guess at least we got new artworks... The characters are not the same as Dark Eldar...
Fifth: Acceptance.
Hey, that's pretty neat. Cool, that works awesome! I love these miniatures!
Brother SRM wrote:Better late than never, I suppose? If they dropped this at the beginning of October or in September, it would have been more effective.
If all this information hadn't been leaked, it would have been more effective.
As I said though. It's not "for us". It's for the folks who don't spend time on these forums, who don't actively seek out rumors, and generally are content with not knowing every single detail.
Do you really think that there are such people? People who don't visit discussion forums like this one, but still poke around in every corner of the official GW site?
Sounds like a stretch to me. Surely there are people who don't pursue online news, but their embargo probably covers forums and the games-workshop.com equally, and they stick to brick-and-mortar shop talk to acquire fresh info.
As intriguing as it is to debate this issue back and forth...we'll know the answers simply enough when they announce their earnings next quarter. Either this new tactic affects sales & costs - or it doesn't. If it's the latter, then I'd say it's still a net failure, if only because of the ill will felt by the community (including me).
My own hunch is that internally it saved them some effort from coordinating the release and doing sneak peaks, while at the same time doing little to nothing to overall sales. In which case, some would say it's a net gain. But that's just a hunch based on my experience on such things.
Kroothawk wrote:Back in town. Was on the biggest European games fair. Battlefoam Romeo, Alessio Calvatore, and Larry Elmore present.
On the trip I had some time to read the novel "Fall of Damnos" by Nick Kyme. Hating all the Space Marine pathetic talk. But the novel definitely gives you a first glimpse on the new Necron background. The Lords have personality, the flayers and destructors have the desease, crypteks and Lychguard are introduced, one Necron Lord wields storms and lightning. Any Necron fan should read it.
Some tidbits by Bramgaunt over at Warseer:
Afaik, no. Nothing is supposed to happen this weekend. Preorders should start with the WD next saturday.
However, due to the leak, GW retail stores have started to accept preorders already and are showing pictures and infos on a handout. Therefor they might be showing them 'early'.
(..)
We also keep forgetting it's a 6th Edition Codex. Destroyers with Preferred Enemy show that pretty good. Some things will appear strange or won't make any sense at all.
(...)
I also forsee, as I said befor, that the full potential of the new Codex will show with the 6th Edition rules. Otherwise I cannot explain several things. Like the Destroyers. Or the rapid fire sniperrifles. If what I heard is true, Deathmarks will be a real pain in the ass starting July.
(...)
Units may shoot once immediately after a deep strike movement.
Rapid fire weapons may be fired twice at max range if shooting unit didn't move that turn, or once at maxrange/twice at 12" if they moved.
Preferred enemy will work on shooting.
Take it with a lot of salt, though.
ghost21 wrote:only with overwatch
As someone who fell out of the game due to having a crappy outdated codex, I can't fething believe that I'm actually going to have a codex that's ahead of the curve.
EDIT: I sincerely hope those rumors are true for 6E. Deathmarks coming in and wounding on a 2+ in response to someone coming in and DSing would be crazy!
Say I was to pre-order the codex on the 29th. Would I get the actual product in the mail on the 5th or would it be sent on the 5th, does anyone know? Im going overseas on the 10th and I would love to have something to read on the way over as its quite a long flight and no doubt this would keep me occupied. Last time I ordered from GW it took 5 days so im not entirely sure that I would get it in time if it was sent on the 5th. Cheers.
Brother SRM wrote:Better late than never, I suppose? If they dropped this at the beginning of October or in September, it would have been more effective.
If all this information hadn't been leaked, it would have been more effective.
As I said though. It's not "for us". It's for the folks who don't spend time on these forums, who don't actively seek out rumors, and generally are content with not knowing every single detail.
Do you really think that there are such people? People who don't visit discussion forums like this one, but still poke around in every corner of the official GW site?
Sounds like a stretch to me. Surely there are people who don't pursue online news, but their embargo probably covers forums and the games-workshop.com equally, and they stick to brick-and-mortar shop talk to acquire fresh info.
As intriguing as it is to debate this issue back and forth...we'll know the answers simply enough when they announce their earnings next quarter. Either this new tactic affects sales & costs - or it doesn't. If it's the latter, then I'd say it's still a net failure, if only because of the ill will felt by the community (including me).
My own hunch is that internally it saved them some effort from coordinating the release and doing sneak peaks, while at the same time doing little to nothing to overall sales. In which case, some would say it's a net gain. But that's just a hunch based on my experience on such things.
I don't know if that will be helpful. Correlation, as it turns out, doesn't imply causation. Revenue could be up because maybe people really liked Dreadfleet for all we know.
GW management is extremely weird, because they are an extremely traditional British company. Capitalism always revolved around tight control of product and information about it, there, and it's pretty obvious that they haven't gotten with the times. It would be nice if they (the model company) took more steps to make the game more accessible to new players and more appealing to veterans, but I think they're really operating under a strict "do everything the same as before as long as we're still profiting, and raise prices if we barely make target this quarter" mentality.
It sucks because the game, flaws and all, is awesome, but the company in control of it is utterly incompetent at giving customers what they want. We just conveniently forget about it when our army's time is up.
Brother SRM wrote:Better late than never, I suppose? If they dropped this at the beginning of October or in September, it would have been more effective.
If all this information hadn't been leaked, it would have been more effective.
As I said though. It's not "for us". It's for the folks who don't spend time on these forums, who don't actively seek out rumors, and generally are content with not knowing every single detail.
Do you really think that there are such people? People who don't visit discussion forums like this one, but still poke around in every corner of the official GW site?
Sounds like a stretch to me. Surely there are people who don't pursue online news, but their embargo probably covers forums and the games-workshop.com equally, and they stick to brick-and-mortar shop talk to acquire fresh info.
As intriguing as it is to debate this issue back and forth...we'll know the answers simply enough when they announce their earnings next quarter. Either this new tactic affects sales & costs - or it doesn't. If it's the latter, then I'd say it's still a net failure, if only because of the ill will felt by the community (including me).
My own hunch is that internally it saved them some effort from coordinating the release and doing sneak peaks, while at the same time doing little to nothing to overall sales. In which case, some would say it's a net gain. But that's just a hunch based on my experience on such things.
So in your opinion your thinking no matter what they have lost? Then why even bring up the point. Of all the rumor mills that I have followed this one due to the blackout has been the most tense, and possibly the most anticipated. Were all sitting here waiting till the last moment hoping in 5 days a preorder to possibly buy in the future happens. I say it worked..
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thatguy91 wrote:Say I was to pre-order the codex on the 29th. Would I get the actual product in the mail on the 5th or would it be sent on the 5th, does anyone know? Im going overseas on the 10th and I would love to have something to read on the way over as its quite a long flight and no doubt this would keep me occupied. Last time I ordered from GW it took 5 days so im not entirely sure that I would get it in time if it was sent on the 5th. Cheers.
Typically it would be shipped in time for you to receive on the 5th.
Thatguy91 wrote:Say I was to pre-order the codex on the 29th. Would I get the actual product in the mail on the 5th or would it be sent on the 5th, does anyone know? Im going overseas on the 10th and I would love to have something to read on the way over as its quite a long flight and no doubt this would keep me occupied. Last time I ordered from GW it took 5 days so im not entirely sure that I would get it in time if it was sent on the 5th. Cheers.
If you were to Pre-order it on the 29th and have it sent to your local GW store to collect from there, then yes you would be able to get it from the 5th.
However, if you Pre-order on the 29th and have it sent to anywhere else that is not your local GW store, then it would not be shipped out until the Monday after (7th November) at the very earliest, possibly even a few days after that.
If you want it on the 5th you need to either get it sent to the store or just buy a copy at the store.
This is the new releases policy for GW from now on, and has been for the last 4-5 months.
lazarian wrote:Typically it would be shipped in time for you to receive on the 5th.
I think this has changed with the new policy. AFAIK it is shipped 7th November.
You have to preorder it at the store to get it 5th November there.
Not necessarily.
If you preorder before the release date and have it shipped to your address, you should get it the Monday/Tuesday of the next week.
If you preorder by the Sunday of the release week, it will be there on release day.
To use the Mega Paint set example:
If you preorder it with store pick-up option, you have to preorder it by Sunday October 23rd to ensure it will be there on release day.
If you preorder it by Wednesday October 26th and have it shipped to an address of your choice, it will be shipped out on Friday.
Any orders after the 26th will ship out on Monday.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Was beaten to it. Oh well.
It has been more than a week since you last posted in our forums. Come back and join in again, it will make this nagging message vanish! If you dont know where, then say hello to a user in introductions, or comment on some work in modeling and painting!
Am I the only one who thinks its dumb that, not even a week left before release, and they haven't so much as mentioned the new Necrons with the exception of the trailer?
Every other army is mentioned atleast a month in advance on the back inside-cover of White Dwarf, or something..
Still, I have to admit, I am pretty excited..
I read Fall of Damnos and then Hammer & Anvil, both contained allot of new information on the Necrons.
Hammer & Anvil had some interesting stuff and I believe it is the first book to have Deathmarks, Ghost Arks, Doomsday Ark, the Triarch Stalker and a few other things.
It also mentions allot of the Necron Lord weapons, like :
Flayer
Etherium Projector
Gauntlet mounted Voidblade
Null Spear
Tachyon Arrow Launcher
Hyperphasic Sword
Fire Gauntlet
I believe all of these have been mentioned except for the Null Spear. To me it sounds like a spear version of a Null Rod but from what we have been told the only anti psyker things the Necrons have are on the Spyders.
In Hammer & Anvil the Tachyon Arrow Launcher is a wrist mounted weapon, it seems to pack quite a punch as a sister hit by it is sent flying.
As for the Sisters? Only 3 things, Arvus Lighters are mentioned again as they were in Red & Black (Sisters received the Arvus Lighter in IA Apocalypse Second Edition), a sister Venator type transport. Same one Forgeworld sells but without the lascannon, instead it had a 5 person troop capacity. Last were the Sister pattern gun servitors, with heavy bolters another with 1 auto cannon on each arm.
Pretty much everything is mentioned by name and allot of the time certain things are in italics pointing out rules that the described unit may have. All Necron units are mentioned by name as are all the weapons they use. There are even mindshackles that I believe one of the Named Lord have in the codex. It's pretty obvious that James Swallow received a copy of the codex be it an early draft or final product.
So a question for Yakface, is there anything like a Null Spear in the codex? Perhaps he has received an early draft of the Sisters codex as well as he mentions some sisters stuff by name quite a few times. Maybe he remembered there being a Null Spear but it was in the Sisters codex and not the Necron one?
I might be reading too much into it but all the weapons were mentioned in the same paragraphs and with the correct codex names for everything... except the Null Spear which there has been no rumours on.
All my store has is a battleforce now. And im sorely tempted to buy it. though won't because of yet another price increase on it ($175 now). That and the fact i already have 120 warriors, 30 scarabs and 10 destroyers. I think 2 heavys as well
Sabet wrote:All my store has is a battleforce now. And im sorely tempted to buy it. though won't because of yet another price increase on it ($175 now). That and the fact i already have 120 warriors, 30 scarabs and 10 destroyers. I think 2 heavys as well
While I have no intention of buying the Necrons, its nice to see they're finally getting a much needed update both in rules and in model variety.
I don't mind them being Tomb-Kings-in-space-ish, but whoever painted them could've toned down the brightness a little. I am, however, thanking the Star God--er, the... the Necrontyr Lord that likes rowing boats for their funny looking vehicles.
Fluff wise... I can't really get super excited about. It's funny how the teaser speaks of Unity. Order. Obedience. when, based on the fluff given, is contrary to the notion. The Necrontyr as a whole is subdivided into several Empires (thousands maybe) and (in hindsight) end up fighting one another because of ancient grudges or beliefs. Some Overlords trade with other races (though nothing springs to mind on what they could possibly want, besides a diplomatic overthrow of a planet, which the Tau already do), others run around trying to grab C'tan shards to stuff them in pocket dimensions, and there are even some that fist bump with Space Marines. SO there's no real sense of actual Unity or Obedience as a whole.
Then there's the shattering of the Ctan; Necrontyr Empire starts falling apart -> Picks fight with Old Ones -> Bargain with Ctan -> Defeat Old Ones -> Necrons shatter Ctan for helping them -> Necrons then hide from the Eldar who didn't get the memo that their Old Ones were dying left and right -> Necrons hibernate to avoid Eldar confrontations and somehow the majority of the Eldar don't wipe them out in their sleep -> Necrons wake up several milleniums later.
I loved the Ctan. The Deciever made the Imperium its plaything. It sought out Imperial Assassins for their phase blades. The Adeptus Mechanicus worshipped one--or a shard of one that was so weak and hungry that the 'big bad Emperor' could barely subdue it on Mars.
They seem so... tame now...
Yea, I get it that people now have more variety to make their army fluff, but it could have been done better...
I'm just waiting for the Silent King to give Marneaus Calgar a hand-shake and Grand-Marshal Helbrect (of the Black Templars) a slap-on-the-back for teaming up and defeating the Orks...
StormForged wrote:The Deciever sought out Imperial Assassins for their phase blades.
I think he was more there posing as the local ruler to mess up the empire, and when the assassin brought him a 'gift' it was just frosting on the cake.
Sabet wrote:All my store has is a battleforce now. And im sorely tempted to buy it. though won't because of yet another price increase on it ($175 now). That and the fact i already have 120 warriors, 30 scarabs and 10 destroyers. I think 2 heavys as well
I was reading this, saw that you said the battleforce was $175, thought to myself "this dude must be from Australia", looked at your location, and bam, nations capital. Sorry dude, that sucks.
StormForged wrote:I'm just waiting for the Silent King to give Marneaus Calgar a hand-shake and Grand-Marshal Helbrect (of the Black Templars) a slap-on-the-back for teaming up and defeating the Orks...
StormForged wrote:I'm just waiting for the Silent King to give Marneaus Calgar a hand-shake and Grand-Marshal Helbrect (of the Black Templars) a slap-on-the-back for teaming up and defeating the Orks...
Oh, it's not that bad.
It's pretty bad though.
I dunno, the geniuseS behind the Necron Codex are writing the Black Templars as well.
Codex
3 boxes of Immortals/Deathmarks
2 boxes of Lychguard/Praetorians
2 Ghost Arks
2 Command Barges
Imotekh The Stormlord
Trazyn the Infinite
2x Crypteks
With my store's policy of 10% discount on preorders, I get all that for $392 USD. Thank God i sold my Hierophant and Hierodules on ebay this weekend, LOL. I should have a very respectable 3000+ points worth of necrons, depending on how the points costs in the codex flesh out.
DerangdFlamingo wrote:Definatly getting a star gate vibe from this stuff. right down to the flying crescent stuff
I love Stargate, so, I'm cool with that. In fact, when I build my table I'm going to build multiple tomb worlds connected by a Stargate network It would make for some fun campaign missions.
I'm more concerned about how we are going to differentiate all these different weapons/rods on these crypteks. Oh that harp of dissonance looks just like my eldritch lance here, but it's blue and the other is red...but that green rod there, that's just a plain old warscythe....
The Immortals with Tesla Carbines in Ghost Arks sounds nice at fast. Throw in a couple scarab swarms, some wraiths, and maybe the Storm Lord or Royal Court in Ghost Ark, finishing off with a Ctan shard (bleh, the whole role-reversal doesn't feel right) with a random ability.
(..)
We also keep forgetting it's a 6th Edition Codex. Destroyers with Preferred Enemy show that pretty good. Some things will appear strange or won't make any sense at all.
(...)
So we go from an outdated codex, to one that could not see its full potential because it is ahead of the curve!
I do feel like the overall feel of Necrons is good. They appear to finally have a codex that can HOPEFULLY rival some of the more modern codexes and make Necrons a contender again. I for one have little to almost no experience playing with/against Necrons, but do rejoice their upcoming 'Dex.
StormForged wrote:The Immortals with Tesla Carbines in Ghost Arks sounds nice at fast.
Immortals can't start the game in Ghost Arks.
Fixed your quote. They can ride around in them all they want after they embark on them first turn. They just can't start the game in them. And they can't be regenerated by them. But I haven't seen anything to say that Ghost Arks will only carry Warriors. Dedicated Transports for Warriors, yes. Warrior-only Transports, not that I've seen.
Death By Monkeys wrote:But I haven't seen anything to say that Ghost Arks will only carry Warriors. Dedicated Transports for Warriors, yes. Warrior-only Transports, not that I've seen.
The first post actually, though it's maybe a little ambiguous.
10 model transport (It can only carry Necron Warriors, Lords, Overlords, Crypteks and Special Characters)
The Night Scythe is our only no-restriction transport. I'm very interested to know how much it costs though, both points and eventually money wise. It will be the hinge for viability of a fully mechanized Necron list, as wrong as that seems
bluebomber wrote:I wanted to get this post out befor i went to get battlefield
Do you think that wraiths will still have S 6? or will that go down?
WS 4 BS 4 S 6 T 4 I 2 W 2 A 3 Sv 3++
Rumored, that is....
I2? Seriously? Cripes, they're...still not worth it then. Insta-gibbed by p-fist or equivalent, horrible sweeping advance protection, and now with 2w and higher squad size, that means there's MORE negative you get to your LD when you lose combat. *Ugh*
Sectiplave wrote:The Night Scythe is our only no-restriction transport. I'm very interested to know how much it costs though both points and eventually money wise. It will be the hinge for viability of a mechanized Necron list, as wrong as that seems at first
150 points, says BOLS. They got the stats spot-on, so it'd make sense for the points to also be accurate (for the playtest version).
Sectiplave wrote:EDIT; has already been covered by previous posts.
The Night Scythe is our only no-restriction transport. I'm very interested to know how much it costs though, both points and eventually money wise. It will be the hinge for viability of a fully mechanized Necron list, as wrong as that seems
I'm hoping it's cheaper than the Ghost Ark, that's for sure. Maybe somewhere around 70 points would be nice.
150 points, says BOLS. They got the stats spot-on, so it'd make sense for the points to also be accurate (for the playtest version).
This seems WAY to expensive for an Av 11 Transport, even if it's fast. That's just insane, if true. There is no way it should be more than double the cost of a Raider.
Sasori wrote:This seems WAY to expensive for an Av 11 Transport, even if it's fast. That's just insane, if true. There is no way it should be more than double the cost of a Raider.
It's a crazy price, but I guess it's one way of encouraging Necrons not to mech up We'll find out soon enough, though I'd preparing for the worst.
This seems WAY to expensive for an Av 11 Transport, even if it's fast. That's just insane, if true. There is no way it should be more than double the cost of a Raider.
Considering the Stalker is an AV11 open-topped Furioso Dreadnought I'm not in the slightest surprised that Necron transports that are essentially weaker than Chimeras cost 3 times as much in points. The Necron vehicles are awful, so I guess we'll be looking at some kind of footslogging army that resembles piles of Ork Shoota Boyz. Take that crutch Stormlord, some other night fight crap, maxed out Scarabs and piles of troops and hope that your enemy doesn't have assault units that go through your army like wrecking balls.
This seems WAY to expensive for an Av 11 Transport, even if it's fast. That's just insane, if true. There is no way it should be more than double the cost of a Raider.
Considering the Stalker is an AV11 open-topped Furioso Dreadnought I'm not in the slightest surprised that Necron transports that are essentially weaker than Chimeras cost 3 times as much in points. The Necron vehicles are awful, so I guess we'll be looking at some kind of footslogging army that resembles piles of Ork Shoota Boyz. Take that crutch Stormlord, some other night fight crap, maxed out Scarabs and piles of troops and hope that your enemy doesn't have assault units that go through your army like wrecking balls.
The Stalker at least has it's Laser-Targerting ability, and can take some other Anti-Tank things.
I just don't get the 150 points though. Unless something changes in 6th Edidtion, because of it's "Supersonic" status, it is way way overcosted.
Perhaps the expensive transports is something we will see more of in 6th? To discourage completely mechanizing every single unit, and Necrons are just the start of that? I believe some rumours and people have said a lot of things in this codex that seem ridiculous or don't make sense will make much more in the context of 6th when it is released. So perhaps that is why? Just my thoughts.
bluebomber wrote:I wanted to get this post out befor i went to get battlefield
Do you think that wraiths will still have S 6? or will that go down?
WS 4 BS 4 S 6 T 4 I 2 W 2 A 3 Sv 3++
Rumored, that is....
I2? Seriously? Cripes, they're...still not worth it then. Insta-gibbed by p-fist or equivalent, horrible sweeping advance protection, and now with 2w and higher squad size, that means there's MORE negative you get to your LD when you lose combat. *Ugh*
Keep on mind , they can take an upgrade that is equal to lash whips , putting their opponents initiative to 1
I think I'm going to be looking at a foot slogging army. I'm going to pre-order tomorrow, and here's what I''m probably going to go with:
1x Necron Codex (obviously)
4x boxes of Immortals\Deathmarks, to be turned into 10 Deathmarks and 10 Tesla Immortals. I don't care if Deathmarks suck, they look awesome.
4 boxes of Lychguard\Praetorians, to be turned into 10 Praetorians with 2h Rods and 10 sword & shield Lychguard
1 Ghost Ark\Doomsday Ark to be turned into... I'm not sure yet. You tell me.
1 Command Barge, again not sure how I'll build it.
This will be augmenting my existing Necron force, which already has, among other things, 43 Necron Warriors, 11 Immortals with Gauss Blasters, a Tomb Stalker, 13 scarabs, and so on. Yeah, I know I have weird numbers of almost everything.
Okay, I've saved the arguably best named character for last...Imotekh the Stormlord. I've already discussed a bit about what he can do, but I thought I'd go a bit deeper as he's likely to be many peoples' favorite...because let's face it, most people like the most powerful guy and he is, both in gameplay and in the fluff.
Imotekh's Tomb World awoke with many of its rulers still in hibernation. The lesser Lords that awoke decided not to manually wake up their superiors as they each tried to vie for control of the world. After a decade of civil war, one lesser Lord got the idea that he could awaken a great general and use him to rally everyone else to his cause, and so he woke up Imotekh, who was instantly appalled at the state of the Tomb World. He raised his own army and quickly decimated all of his competitors to the throne and took over never to look back.
The only true rival in his kingdom is now Nemesor Zahndrekh, but he is still wildly loyal to Imotekh (likely believing him to be some great Royarch of old).
Imotekh is perhaps the galaxy's greatest strategist and his attacks are often made across whole systems simultaneously, not just on isolated planets. Although his attacks may seem almost magical to some, in truth it is cold hard logic and probabilities in play, something that Imotekh is a master of, along with a great understanding of his foes' minds. His logic is so flawless, that the only way an enemy can get an advantage on him is to be truly random...something Orks actually do innately, which is why Imotekh hates them above all else. Imotekh has one and only one goal: to wash clean the galaxy of all its lesser races, leaving the Necrons to remain supreme.
Imotekh knows that logic and precision can only accomplish so much. Therefore, he uses weapons of terror and confusion against the enemy including having his forces advance under a storm-darkened sky (not explained how he does that, but I'm guessing some sort of Necron tech is in play) as well as implanting some foes with 'bloodswarm nanoscarabs' whose presence in their bodies draws Flayed Ones to them like flies to crap.
His empire is growing at an extremely fast rate, faster than any other Necron Overlord. Of course, this expansion has also means that his Empire has begun to be noticed in a serious way by the Ultramarines, Iyanden Craftworld & even the Tau Empire (as all 3 are apparently fairly close to the borders of his expanding domain).
If there is one flaw with Imotekh, it his need to utterly humiliate his foes in order to truly display his superiority, and leave them alive to know their shame at being defeated (although typically with a limb removed as a grim reminder of their loss). However, this hubris has led to allowing vanquished foes to survive now with further knowledge about how to fight him and Necrons in general. The fluff hints that perhaps damage during hibernation is to blame, but which trait is due to this damage? Is the need for personal glory the glitch or is it the grand strategic vision?
Imotekh is armed with a few pieces of 'standard' wargear (that generic Overlords can also be equipped with): Phase Shifter & Sempiternal Weave (which together give him a 2+/3++ save), Phylactery & Gauntlet of Fire (which is a CC weapon that allows 'to hit' & 'to wound' rolls in combat to be re-rolled and can be used in the shooting phase as a very standard template weapon).
For non-standard wargear, he has 'Bloodswarm Nanoscarabs' which make you randomly pick one enemy non-vehicle unit in the army (going to need that random number generator again!) and any Flayed One packs aiming to Deep Strike within 6" of this enemy unit don't scatter.
He also carries the 'Staff of the Destroyer' which cannot be used in CC (so no +1 for having two weapons in CC) but allows a once per game shooting attack that is S6, AP1, Assault1 and fires a 2D6" straight 'line' out from Imotekh's base and hits enemy units underneath like the Doom Scythe's Death Ray (each unit under the line suffers as many hits as models in that unit that are actually under the line).
For special rules, if his close combat attacks bring down an enemy Independent Character or Monstrous Creature then you get 2 Kill Points instead of 1...but if you're playing a campaign then any models 'killed' this way gain 'preferred enemy' against Imotekh in subsequent games in the campaign (as he lets them go after defeating them).
As I mentioned before, he also is able to steal the Initiative in games on a roll of 4+, unless playing against Orks (in which case you can't even attempt to seize the Initiative).
And finally, he has the 'Lord of the Storm' rule that I reported before which causes turn 1 of every game to have Night Fighting in effect and if you wish, you can extend it into further game turns by rolling higher than the turn number on a D6 at the start of each game turn (as well as potentially causing lightning strikes on every enemy unit on the table in each Necron Shooting phase while Night Fighting is in effect).
So as you can see, this guy has a whole host of awesomeness going on, not the least of which is the ability to bring Night Fighting into games which can be a huge advantage if your army is set up to take advantage of it (especially as you're potentially doing bonus damage to the enemy army with your lightning strikes while its going on), but he is by far the most expensive named character in the book, although not so expensive that he probably isn't a real go-to choice for lots of Necron generals.
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Those BOLS point values are incorrect, not the least of which is the fact that Quantum Shielding is not an upgrade for any vehicle...they either have it or they don't.
The Night Scythe and Ghost Ark are much more expensive points-wise than I think any Necron player would hope for, but they're not 150 points. They are much more in the range of an Eldar Wave Serpent (after its taken its weapon upgrades).
The Stormlord sounds quite cool, in Fluff terms, and Gameplay. I'm a bit suprised at the lack of a powerweapon though!
Either way, I Know I plan to take him, his Night fighting rule is just awesome.
EDIT
Those BOLS point values are incorrect, not the least of which is the fact that Quantum Shielding is not an upgrade for any vehicle...they either have it or they don't.
The Night Scythe and Ghost Ark are much more expensive points-wise than I think any Necron player would hope for, but they're not 150 points. They are much more in the range of an Eldar Wave Serpent (after its taken its weapon upgrades).
Thank you Yak. That makes a lot more sense. I couldn't see 150 points, it was just too insane.
Flayed ones with stormlord aren't that bad. If there is no scatter, place them perfectly so that they can run into cover for better saves. If FOs are cheap, they would make an awesome distraction.
Also, does anyone know if the necrosphinx kit could be a stand-in or proxy for either the walker or a c'tan?
tbh, i dont think he is that good, for that point total he should definetly have a powerweapon.
the only way i see him being good is with a royal court of lords with warscyhes support him. that could do the trick.
It will all depends his point cost, he is definetly powerfull with all the rules, but he is not worth over the 200 pts, as he lacks the combat prowess of the monsters at that lvl.
Valek wrote:tbh, i dont think he is that good, for that point total he should definetly have a powerweapon.
the only way i see him being good is with a royal court of lords with warscyhes support him. that could do the trick.
It will all depends his point cost, he is definetly powerfull with all the rules, but he is not worth over the 200 pts, as he lacks the combat prowess of the monsters at that lvl.
You are paying for his special rules, which are very very good, not his combat prowess. While he doesn't have quite the Power, he does still have the 2+/3++. You have to think of everything he brings to the table.
If you want just a combat Monster, just make an Overlord, with 2+/3++ and a Warscythe.
I have to admit, I laughed when I saw that a Necron player who takes Imotekh is unable to sieze, let alone use his 4+ sieze, when facing Orks.
Casual FLGS play will probably just often result in players either refusing to play Ork players, or just quickly changing their list to accommodate.
But I look forward to seeing how people react to this in the competitive tournament setting. Have a big nasty with an interesting weakness. I really do like how the rule allows the fluff to be transplanted into the Necron player's experience - who would by extension dislike playing against orks more so than others due to the penalty (in potentia, at least)
All in all, I'm quite interested in this codex. There's a good chance I'll order it, so I can own it and experiment with builds as I drip-feed purchase models, if I decide to.
It does mean I'll be playing three armies instead of just two - never thought I'd go up to three.
hollowmirror wrote:actually Imotech can steal the initiative against orks. It's just that they confound him so he doesn't get a bonus, it's only on the 6+ like normal.
No, Yak's post seemed rather clear about not getting a chance at all, when playing against Orks.
unless playing against Orks (in which case you can't even attempt to seize the Initiative).
If you can't even attempt, it means you don't roll for it at all.
Although these are British companies, there must be equivalents where you live.
I am currently turning my Necrons from green rods to blue, and will post a few pics when they are done - I'm still waiting for the rods to arrive, only just having ordered them.
Hope you can find a way to complete your army's rods, PM me if you are having trouble.
So it's not explained how he summons storms? There must be a reason, logically speaking I like the fact that he has the 'cron form of brain damage - for me it's the need for glory and his ultimate goal, which is pointless and illogical. I like the idea of the Nanoscarabs (how does he implant them?) but I can see them being relatively pointless unless you can position yourself so the Flayed Ones won't be cut down by gunfire in the following turn. Looking forward to getting my mitts on the Codex, I'm just undecided on the background.
It's not even limited to "well, Flayed Ones are bad" but moreso the needlessly random nature of the ability--which seems to be a recurring theme, some of these Necron abilities look better at first glance than they do in the end. Lots of them seem to have fine print attached that limit them pretty extremely.
You're basically placing a Locator Beacon on a random enemy unit. And the enemy knows about it. And the Flayed Ones will come in at random, but not until at least Turn 2. So even if it was in a useful spot and Flayed Ones are a useful choice, the enemy can just put that unit into a less-useful spot. Say surrounded by guns and nowhere near cover. Or, you might kill that unit before the Flayed Ones come in. Etc etc etc. Limitations placed on top of limitations of something that wasn't that powerful to begin with--Flayed Ones arriving without scatter.
Obviously Stormlord is useful even without it, so it's probably best just not taking that particular ability into account.
hollowmirror wrote:actually Imotech can steal the initiative against orks. It's just that they confound him so he doesn't get a bonus, it's only on the 6+ like normal.
No, Yak's post seemed rather clear about not getting a chance at all, when playing against Orks.
unless playing against Orks (in which case you can't even attempt to seize the Initiative).
If you can't even attempt, it means you don't roll for it at all.
Ah, You are correct. I was going off what I'd read on page one. Didn't realize the new explanation elaborated a bit more on that.
DJ3 wrote:It's not even limited to "well, Flayed Ones are bad" but moreso the needlessly random nature of the ability--which seems to be a recurring theme, some of these Necron abilities look better at first glance than they do in the end. Lots of them seem to have fine print attached that limit them pretty extremely.
You're basically placing a Locator Beacon on a random enemy unit. And the enemy knows about it. And the Flayed Ones will come in at random, but not until at least Turn 2. So even if it was in a useful spot and Flayed Ones are a useful choice, the enemy can just put that unit into a less-useful spot. Say surrounded by guns and nowhere near cover. Or, you might kill that unit before the Flayed Ones come in. Etc etc etc. Limitations placed on top of limitations of something that wasn't that powerful to begin with--Flayed Ones arriving without scatter.
Obviously Stormlord is useful even without it, so it's probably best just not taking that particular ability into account.
Youre not thinking this through, re the no scatter flayed ones
If the opponent is altering their battle plans because they know this unit is vulnerable to flayed ones, then you already have an advantage over them. The random nature of reserves meaning your opponent has to keep protecting their unit, every time you dont come down.
Stormlord seems well worth 200+ points, even without a power weapon. Ditto wraiths.
yakface wrote:The Night Scythe and Ghost Ark are much more expensive points-wise than I think any Necron player would hope for, but they're not 150 points. They are much more in the range of an Eldar Wave Serpent (after its taken its weapon upgrades).
Not 150 points, but still around 100-130 points. While being inferior to the Wave Serpent in pretty much every way.
Indeed more expensive than I would hope for. On one hand I'm glad that Necrons won't be turning into a transport army, but nobody likes an overcosted unit in his codex either
We gotta look at the transport thing as being ahead of the curve in terms of any paradigm shifts 6th ed will bring. I think it's a pretty safe bet that transports, and vehicles in general, will be slightly reduced in their durability, maybe not back to what 4th ed had, but maybe a halfway point between the two.
yakface wrote:The Night Scythe and Ghost Ark are much more expensive points-wise than I think any Necron player would hope for, but they're not 150 points. They are much more in the range of an Eldar Wave Serpent (after its taken its weapon upgrades).
Not 150 points, but still around 100-130 points. While being inferior to the Wave Serpent in pretty much every way.
Indeed more expensive than I would hope for. On one hand I'm glad that Necrons won't be turning into a transport army, but nobody likes an overcosted unit in his codex either
I guess it's a 6th edition thing?
Some of the Warseer rumors seem to indicate this. Since the Night Scythe is a "Flier" they may get their own set of rules, next edition. I'm not going to hold out for that, of course.
I added the stormlord's new information to the summary in a separate quote, as otherwise it would compromise the army list.
I also added the few new US-prices, the known Finecast rereleases and the info on the two novels featuring the new Necron background.
Dr. Delorean wrote:I've got exams directly after release, so I'm gonna buy up a tonne of these and put them away, so I can build and paint them once my exams are over
Yakface, is there anything like a Null Spear available for the Necron Lords? In the book Hammer & Anvil it is mentioned as a weapon the Necron Lord could take. There was also a wrist mounted Tachyon Arrow Launcher, anything like that?
From what has been posted it's something like a hunter killer missile but the one in the book was a personal ranged weapon for the lord.
Nice to see the KP rule I advocate for Lictors appearing in the game, albeit for Immy! Fingers crossed this idea gets exported to Feeder Tendrils for the next Tyranid dex...
Automatically Appended Next Post: immortals and deathmarks from 1 set, 15 guns in there
lychguard and preatorians from 1 set
4 cfhq's
flayed ones are a finecast box
So how are we going to kill tanks? Gauss is the same as the old book and to me that is not so hot as the only one model in the game is T8 as of the 5th and we all know how well glancing a target down works.
The Doomsday ark is cool but seems super fragile so I'm guessing one or two shots before it is killed. Any info on how the shields work vs the lance rule or will that need to be a FAQ answer?
Immortals seem to be a anti troop weapon with the tesla carbine and use warriors if you want gauss as it will be cheaper.
I know the scaribs look great but T3 swarms and only 10 in a unit means you will need two units just to get across the table. My local meta has huge amount of high rate of fire STR6,7,8 shooting atm and I'm sure they will be something people will focus on.
I'm currently building my FW tomb stalker to stand in for the scorp walker in hopes it will be useful.
Can we get a full run down of weapons at some point? This is what I have gotten from everything I have read so far. (focus is on range support and I know I'm leaving out a few but most of those are short range.)
Warriors-
Gauss rifle 24" STR4 AP5 Rapid
Monolith - Not including in my thoughts currently as the rumors make me want to put the three I own into storage. Still super close range and really depends on how the shield works vs. lance. (Monolith vs. Doomsdat Ark the extra range wins atm)
Fighter - I see how bad they are currently in DE armies so this might be great in 6th ... maybe(die to fast for the cost)
Scorpion -
Heat ray melta blast thing (marking a target for twin linked is cool)
Can we get the rest of the weapons filled in and who they go with? Who else can use a heat rays? Heavy destroyer says? pew? pew pew? or Big PEW!
I'm just getting a little worried as this is a totally different animal then what Necron players have been playing. Also I'm really hoping to break the trend of "You need to play Imperium(all 5th Ed but SoB) because 5th ed xenos have gotten the short bus or smacked down in FAQs. IMO
(Yes I know I left out units and a few weapons but I will looking at a ranged way to kill tanks overall and still stuck in the mind set of the current codex.)
EDIT: I now know where my calculations are off, and I have been corrected in following posts.
At the risk of being blasted for Mathhammer when the book isn't out, I've been running numbers on the weapons for the Immortals. I haven't found a situation where the Gauss Blaster is better than the Tesla Carbine. In fact, most of the time the Tesla Carbine will be twice as effective as the Gauss Blaster (even in the rapid fire area!)
While I'm not to worried about taking out tanks, I can see that we'll struggle against a Tau or IG gun line.
The other place that I thing we'll struggle is against models with an invulnerable save.
Anpu-adom wrote:At the risk of being blasted for Mathhammer when the book isn't out, I've been running numbers on the weapons for the Immortals. I haven't found a situation where the Gauss Blaster is better than the Tesla Carbine. In fact, most of the time the Tesla Carbine will be twice as effective as the Gauss Blaster (even in the rapid fire area!)
While I'm not to worried about taking out tanks, I can see that we'll struggle against a Tau or IG gun line.
The other place that I thing we'll struggle is against models with an invulnerable save.
1) We're still not 100% on the Tesla rule, so yeah, this is pointless.
2) This is bad mathhammering. They're all S5 shots, and in rapidfire the Blaster has twice the amount of shots. Bonus hits on a six do not account for this, and to say that the Tesla Carbine is "twice as effective" as the blaster is an egregious corruption of basic discrete probability.
3) Are you accounting for enemy armor? Blasters will take out literally twice as many FWs/NWs/etc than the carbines.
I mean, let's assume that you do get 3 hits per "6" rolled.
10 shots:
Carbine:
10 * 1/2 = 5 normal hits (3,4, or 5)
10 * (3 * 1/6) = 5 Tesla hits.
Average of 10 hits, ~7 wounds on T4 ~8 wounds on T3, but it's AP- and doesnt change for range. Can't glance vehicles.
Blaster:
Long range (stationary under current rules)
10 *2/3 = ~7 hits
~4 wounds against T4, ~6 wounds against T3. AP4 counts for a lot, as does autoglance.
Double that in rapidfire range.
So it does seems like the carbine will be pretty good, and if your enemy has a lot of cover it will be the superior weapon in most cases. Especially considering you can fire at full range while moving. But it's nowhere close to "twice as effective".
EDIT: Unless you're always assuming that you'll have one extra round of shooting with the carbines due to range, but I probably wouldn't assume that. If I were embarking these guys in a Night Scythe I would probably rather dump them off in RF range.
Marshal_Hadrial wrote:Perhaps the expensive transports is something we will see more of in 6th? To discourage completely mechanizing every single unit, and Necrons are just the start of that? I believe some rumours and people have said a lot of things in this codex that seem ridiculous or don't make sense will make much more in the context of 6th when it is released. So perhaps that is why? Just my thoughts.
If those 6th edition rumors are accurate, people won't use their transports in the same way anymore. You'll need your units disembarked and holding objectives ASAP. Personally I'd be very wary of building an MSU, flying circus Necron army between now and next summer.
Anpu-adom wrote:At the risk of being blasted for Mathhammer when the book isn't out, I've been running numbers on the weapons for the Immortals. I haven't found a situation where the Gauss Blaster is better than the Tesla Carbine. In fact, most of the time the Tesla Carbine will be twice as effective as the Gauss Blaster (even in the rapid fire area!)
While I'm not to worried about taking out tanks, I can see that we'll struggle against a Tau or IG gun line.
The other place that I thing we'll struggle is against models with an invulnerable save.
1) We're still not 100% on the Tesla rule, so yeah, this is pointless.
2) This is bad mathhammering. They're all S5 shots, and in rapidfire the Blaster has twice the amount of shots. Bonus hits on a six do not account for this, and to say that the Tesla Carbine is "twice as effective" as the blaster is an egregious corruption of basic discrete probability.
3) Are you accounting for enemy armor? Blasters will take out literally twice as many FWs/NWs/etc than the carbines.
I mean, let's assume that you do get 3 hits per "6" rolled.
10 shots:
Carbine:
10 * 1/2 = 5 normal hits (3,4, or 5)
10 * (3 * 1/6) = 5 Tesla hits.
Average of 10 hits, ~7 wounds on T4 ~8 wounds on T3, but it's AP- and doesnt change for range. Can't glance vehicles.
Blaster:
Long range (stationary under current rules)
10 *2/3 = ~7 hits
~4 wounds against T4, ~6 wounds against T3. AP4 counts for a lot, as does autoglance.
Double that in rapidfire range.
So it does seems like the carbine will be pretty good, and if your enemy has a lot of cover it will be the superior weapon in most cases. Especially considering you can fire at full range while moving. But it's nowhere close to "twice as effective".
EDIT: Unless you're always assuming that you'll have one extra round of shooting with the carbines due to range, but I probably wouldn't assume that. If I were embarking these guys in a Night Scythe I would probably rather dump them off in RF range.
Ok, so I exaggerated a bit.
I did take into account target armor, and ran the simulation on Tac Marines, Standard Terminators, Ork Boyz, and IG. According to Yakface, the Tesla carbine is Assault 2, rather than just Assault. Getting two shots every time you fire is better than rapid fire. (I am counting 3 hits when you get a 6 to hit).
I didn't look into attacking vehicles.
I don't have my spreadsheet in front of me (it's at home), but I looked at expected kills on Marines, Ork Boyz, and IG (the results on Terminators was laughable!), on each the Tesla Carbine resulted in more expected kills in a single round of firing than the Blaster (in either single fire or rapid fire range). Granted, the size of the effect is reduced the more armor your target has.
I agree that cost will be a deciding factor. Will it be a free swap? Will it be 5 extra points per model? Will it be 10?
I'm guessing that it would probably be worth it at 5 points/model, and definitely worth a free swap.
quick note, according to the White Dwarf the ghost ark comes with 10 'battle damaged' necron warriors. Might be cool if we could use them to make deathmarks with the stuff left over from the deathmarks/immortals box
I did take into account target armor, and ran the simulation on Tac Marines, Standard Terminators, Ork Boyz, and IG. According to Yakface, the Tesla carbine is Assault 2, rather than just Assault. Getting two shots every time you fire is better than rapid fire. (I am counting 3 hits when you get a 6 to hit).
I didn't look into attacking vehicles.
I don't have my spreadsheet in front of me (it's at home), but I looked at expected kills on Marines, Ork Boyz, and IG (the results on Terminators was laughable!), on each the Tesla Carbine resulted in more expected kills in a single round of firing than the Blaster (in either single fire or rapid fire range). Granted, the size of the effect is reduced the more armor your target has.
I agree that cost will be a deciding factor. Will it be a free swap? Will it be 5 extra points per model? Will it be 10?
I'm guessing that it would probably be worth it at 5 points/model, and definitely worth a free swap.
Where did he say it was assault 2? the last I heard was from his quote on the first page
I did take into account target armor, and ran the simulation on Tac Marines, Standard Terminators, Ork Boyz, and IG. According to Yakface, the Tesla carbine is Assault 2, rather than just Assault. Getting two shots every time you fire is better than rapid fire. (I am counting 3 hits when you get a 6 to hit).
I didn't look into attacking vehicles.
I don't have my spreadsheet in front of me (it's at home), but I looked at expected kills on Marines, Ork Boyz, and IG (the results on Terminators was laughable!), on each the Tesla Carbine resulted in more expected kills in a single round of firing than the Blaster (in either single fire or rapid fire range). Granted, the size of the effect is reduced the more armor your target has.
I agree that cost will be a deciding factor. Will it be a free swap? Will it be 5 extra points per model? Will it be 10?
I'm guessing that it would probably be worth it at 5 points/model, and definitely worth a free swap.
Where did he say it was assault 2? the last I heard was from his quote on the first page
Tesla Carbines (24" S5 Assault1, 'Tesla'
Yeah, if it was actually assault 2 it would hands-down be the better weapon.
I'm a little disappointed about the cost of the ghost ark, considering how fragile I expect it to be and the fact that it's only a DT for warriors. 240 points is a lot to pay for a unit of just bolters, even if they can autoglance.
I did take into account target armor, and ran the simulation on Tac Marines, Standard Terminators, Ork Boyz, and IG. According to Yakface, the Tesla carbine is Assault 2, rather than just Assault. Getting two shots every time you fire is better than rapid fire. (I am counting 3 hits when you get a 6 to hit).
I didn't look into attacking vehicles.
I don't have my spreadsheet in front of me (it's at home), but I looked at expected kills on Marines, Ork Boyz, and IG (the results on Terminators was laughable!), on each the Tesla Carbine resulted in more expected kills in a single round of firing than the Blaster (in either single fire or rapid fire range). Granted, the size of the effect is reduced the more armor your target has.
I agree that cost will be a deciding factor. Will it be a free swap? Will it be 5 extra points per model? Will it be 10?
I'm guessing that it would probably be worth it at 5 points/model, and definitely worth a free swap.
Where did he say it was assault 2? the last I heard was from his quote on the first page
Tesla Carbines (24" S5 Assault1, 'Tesla'
Yeah, if it was actually assault 2 it would hands-down be the better weapon.
I'm a little disappointed about the cost of the ghost ark, considering how fragile I expect it to be and the fact that it's only a DT for warriors. 240 points is a lot to pay for a unit of just bolters, even if they can autoglance.
Again some stuff i got from the WD: Imhotek is 225 points, Trazyn is 175. 10 warriors in a ghost ark are 245 (do the math on that one). A Doomsday ark is 175 points. An annihilation barge is 90 points.
Same here. The Arks main gun is stronger, but the monolith is superior in almost every other respect as I see it right now. And with 2 of them you can propably just skip the transports for your troops as well since you can teleport them around.
hollowmirror wrote:You know I really wanted the doomsday ark at first, but I don't know if it's worth 175 points. I'd probably just field the monoliths for another 25.
If the Doomsday large blast is ordnance it could be worth it, especially if you've got some Imhotek night fighting shenanigans going on.
125 points for an ark strikes me as rather absurd from a balance perspective. It's only going to stay AV13 for a single round of shooting, and all it has for armaments are auto-glancing bolters. It's not even fast.
Depends where you want your AT to come from. Personally I'm looking at scarabs to do the damage, but I'm thinking wraiths could make a right mess of most parking lots...
On the other hand, it might be worth it just to disembark the warriors and throw some immortals in there, especially if the new rapidfire rules prove to be true in 6E.
Aldaris wrote:Same here. The Arks main gun is stronger, but the monolith is superior in almost every other respect as I see it right now. And with 2 of them you can propably just skip the transports for your troops as well since you can teleport them around.
The major advantage the Ark has is range--sitting in your backfield, it can reach out and touch just about any threat on the table.
True, but without Monoliths you need some way to get your dudes around the board. And since transports seem pretty expensive for what they can actually do I'd rather have 2 Monos and invest the points saved on transports elsewhere.
Just speculating on what's known so far of course.
Aldaris wrote:Same here. The Arks main gun is stronger, but the monolith is superior in almost every other respect as I see it right now. And with 2 of them you can propably just skip the transports for your troops as well since you can teleport them around.
The major advantage the Ark has is range--sitting in your backfield, it can reach out and touch just about any threat on the table.
Let's not forget about AP1.
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Aldaris wrote:True, but without Monoliths you need some way to get your dudes around the board. And since transports seem pretty expensive for what they can actually do I'd rather have 2 Monos and invest the points saved on transports elsewhere.
Just speculating on what's known so far of course.
Keep in mind the monolith can only move 6 inches, and we don't know if it can teleport dudes immediately after deep striking. AV14 is still tough to crack but it's not nearly as crazy as it used to be since it's not immune to meltas and lances.
Aldaris wrote:Same here. The Arks main gun is stronger, but the monolith is superior in almost every other respect as I see it right now. And with 2 of them you can propably just skip the transports for your troops as well since you can teleport them around.
The major advantage the Ark has is range--sitting in your backfield, it can reach out and touch just about any threat on the table.
The problem to me on that is that most people will be using Imotech it sounds like. So It'll be likely that the first 2-3 turns are night fighting. Which means even if it can shoot it's str9 ap1 it can only reach an average 21". That's also assuming that it doesn't move, which it likely will need to move at least once or twice through the game which will reduce it's profile down to str7 24" for the following shooting phase.
being armor 13 until the first penetrate or glance is nice, but since it's open topped it has a 50% chance of crashing and burning after that first penetrate.
So all but one of the Necron vehicles are AV11 (AV13 with QS) and the Monolith only has 24" weapons. Oh, and they're not exactly cheap. I can only think that either vehicles are getting a lot tougher to kill in 6th Edition, or perhaps the Necron army was balanced with the idea that 90% of all Necron players are going to take Imotekh(and a Solar Pulse Cryptek) every game. I'm not sure which idea is worse.
Aldaris wrote:Same here. The Arks main gun is stronger, but the monolith is superior in almost every other respect as I see it right now. And with 2 of them you can propably just skip the transports for your troops as well since you can teleport them around.
The major advantage the Ark has is range--sitting in your backfield, it can reach out and touch just about any threat on the table.
The problem to me on that is that most people will be using Imotech it sounds like. So It'll be likely that the first 2-3 turns are night fighting. Which means even if it can shoot it's str9 ap1 it can only reach an average 21". That's also assuming that it doesn't move, which it likely will need to move at least once or twice through the game which will reduce it's profile down to str7 24" for the following shooting phase.
being armor 13 until the first penetrate or glance is nice, but since it's open topped it has a 50% chance of crashing and burning after that first penetrate.
Use that to your advantage, though. Take Imhotek with a cryptek that has Solar Flare, and pop something on turn one with utter impunity. Plus, you can decide to stop rolling for it whenever.
Okay, I'll concede that the Ark doesn't sound bad with Mr. Imhotek and a correspondingly equipped Cryptek in play. I don't know if I want to build my whole force on that combo though, which is basically what it would mean.
I would be curious to see a list that used a strong core of doomsday arks and triarch stalkers with gauss cannons. Using the stalkers to mark something you want crunched and then getting a twin-linked str9 ap1 large blast could be very helpful to making them viable.
I'd agree the solar pulse could help immensely if done at the right time.
Yeah, my headcount had it at 150 max...oh well, makes my decisions easier. And for some reason I thought it was St10 so it's even easier now to forget about it
Right now it's going to have to wait but my heavy support slots are looking to be slightly empty honestly. Though tomb spyders might be a direction I head. So far nothing jumps out but point values are important for me to make those decisions
I do see that the necron codex has a pretty big theme of all the gears working together to get the desired result, such as the c'tan - tremorstave combination, the Imotech - solarpulse or the tomb spyders helping to restock your scarabs.
Hulksmash wrote:Right now it's going to have to wait but my heavy support slots are looking to be slightly empty honestly. Though tomb spyders might be a direction I head. So far nothing jumps out but point values are important for me to make those decisions
I have to Agree here. The points costs are driving me away from the Heavy support slot as well. I really wanted to use the Doomsday Arks, but I expected them around 130-150 points. Not 175, that's for sure.
We'll have to see. I really need to get the codex in my hands now.
You know, maybe I'm discounting the arks' "regenerate 3 models" ability too easily. I wonder what a force that looks something like this could accomplish:
Imotek on Barge ???
As many scarabs as possible ???
10 warriors 245
-Ark
10 warriros 245
-Ark
15 warriors 180
15 warriors 180
15 warriors 180
With this you have literal boatloads of scoring units that are not incredibly easy to eliminate, with lots of cover saves due to being screened by scarabs. If the scarabs aren't dealt with, they can mire CC units or debilitate vehicles altogether. All that mass gauss fire could do a lot of damage (especially if 6E rapidfire rules prove to be true), and even though they'd get picked off, the two arks regenerating an average of 36 points worth of necrons a turn is a non-trival boon. Take a couple eldritch lances/tachyon arrows for helping with high priority vehicle targets and you're golden.
The scarabs help intercept CC units who will almost certainly sweep your warrior units, but if you lose one altogether it isn't the end of the world.
There's probably a better balance of warriors to other units but I could see something like this working.
I just want to come up with a way to make Lychguard work for me.
nosferatu1001 wrote:Youre not thinking this through, re the no scatter flayed ones
If the opponent is altering their battle plans because they know this unit is vulnerable to flayed ones, then you already have an advantage over them. The random nature of reserves meaning your opponent has to keep protecting their unit, every time you dont come down.
Stormlord seems well worth 200+ points, even without a power weapon. Ditto wraiths.
Possibly an important point -- in the rumored 6th edition rules, units may charge the turn they deep strike. Most units only get a 6" advance move after the DS, so you have to land close. And under those rules it's normally a very risky thing to even attempt to DS within 6" of another unit. But with a homer...
Also note that in those rules, reserves are much more reliable. You can more or less decide which turn they're going to arrive. This seems be a prime example of something that may look different after 6th edition arrives.
Dr. Delorean wrote:We gotta look at the transport thing as being ahead of the curve in terms of any paradigm shifts 6th ed will bring. I think it's a pretty safe bet that transports, and vehicles in general, will be slightly reduced in their durability, maybe not back to what 4th ed had, but maybe a halfway point between the two.
The rumored rules had all vehicles getting more durable, actually. The catch is that you won't want to be bunkering inside them anymore.
I for one think thats a good cost for it. All vehicles of any sort should be more expensive. Look at the game now, 1000 vehicles per side for almost every army. So the game becomes lets see whos transport gets blown up first so then the troops are screwed and die in droves. I hope that this is a hint in 6th that it will be more on how 40k should really be, about the troops shooting the hell out of eachother and cutting eachother up in combat, not running around in tons of tanks.
str00dles1 wrote:I for one think thats a good cost for it. All vehicles of any sort should be more expensive. Look at the game now, 1000 vehicles per side for almost every army. So the game becomes lets see whos transport gets blown up first so then the troops are screwed and die in droves. I hope that this is a hint in 6th that it will be more on how 40k should really be, about the troops shooting the hell out of eachother and cutting eachother up in combat, not running around in tons of tanks.
The problem is that this isn't reflected in other codices, though.
I seriously doubt we're going to see 80 point razorbacks in the 6E marine codex, too.
The problem with proposing that all vehicles/transports in 6th will/should be more expensive is that the Rulebook itself doesn't affect it, but the individual codices. Therefore, if some units are made more expensive (say rhinos are 45pts in the next Codex), then they will be even further under-costed in Codices that have not been updated, therefore creating some notable imbalance...
str00dles1 wrote:I for one think thats a good cost for it. All vehicles of any sort should be more expensive. Look at the game now, 1000 vehicles per side for almost every army. So the game becomes lets see whos transport gets blown up first so then the troops are screwed and die in droves. I hope that this is a hint in 6th that it will be more on how 40k should really be, about the troops shooting the hell out of eachother and cutting eachother up in combat, not running around in tons of tanks.
From my perspective, people use transports because their more durable than the previous edition and, on the current edition, gun-lines are practically futile with how Infitrators can Out Flank, units are horrendously fast (Baal Predators and BA Vindicators spring to mind), and how Morale is calculated in CC.
While units cannot consolidate into combat anymore (thank god), the weight of options to circumvent a gunline are still there.
In this edition, the more mobile the army, the better off you'll be.
But I digress.
I think the Necrons are going to be priced (point-wise) like the Tau is now; cheap infantry and expensive vehicles to balance one another. While I'm hoping Immortals can swap their standard for the Tesla Carbine (much like FW can trade for Pulse Carbines) for free, the vehicle's are going to be expensive because;
1) They're skimmers.
2) One can 'Turbo Boost' (or 'Super Sonic')
3) Their AV 11
4) Weapon Loadouts
5) The Vehicle Armory
But the 'Open-topped' bit makes me frown. Alot. Blowing up Raiders with Fire Warriors is bad enough.
str00dles1 wrote:I for one think thats a good cost for it. All vehicles of any sort should be more expensive. Look at the game now, 1000 vehicles per side for almost every army. So the game becomes lets see whos transport gets blown up first so then the troops are screwed and die in droves. I hope that this is a hint in 6th that it will be more on how 40k should really be, about the troops shooting the hell out of eachother and cutting eachother up in combat, not running around in tons of tanks.
The problem is that this isn't reflected in other codices, though.
I seriously doubt we're going to see 80 point razorbacks in the 6E marine codex, too.
Not 80, and I know its per codex. But as they have done before for books not remade a simple errat until they are fixes it how they want it.
The problem with proposing that all vehicles/transports in 6th will/should be more expensive is that the Rulebook itself doesn't affect it, but the individual codices. Therefore, if some units are made more expensive (say rhinos are 45pts in the next Codex), then they will be even further under-costed in Codices that have not been updated, therefore creating some notable imbalance...
And lucky necrons we get to be updated first to be at a disadvantage longest, after being without an update since 3e so we got to be at a disadvantage the longest...
Also if its correct vehicles will get tougher in 6e, how come they nerfed the monolith!
Depending on where Doom Scythes end up points-wise, I think one of the cores I'll try out will be Stormlord, a couple of Doom Scythes, a couple of scarabs, and a bunch of warriors.
bluebomber wrote:I wanted to get this post out befor i went to get battlefield
Do you think that wraiths will still have S 6? or will that go down?
WS 4 BS 4 S 6 T 4 I 2 W 2 A 3 Sv 3++
Rumored, that is....
I2? Seriously? Cripes, they're...still not worth it then. Insta-gibbed by p-fist or equivalent, horrible sweeping advance protection, and now with 2w and higher squad size, that means there's MORE negative you get to your LD when you lose combat. *Ugh*
Keep on mind , they can take an upgrade that is equal to lash whips , putting their opponents initiative to 1
It doesn't change the sweeping advance bit though as the opponent will still get to roll their normal initiative.
The problem with proposing that all vehicles/transports in 6th will/should be more expensive is that the Rulebook itself doesn't affect it, but the individual codices. Therefore, if some units are made more expensive (say rhinos are 45pts in the next Codex), then they will be even further under-costed in Codices that have not been updated, therefore creating some notable imbalance...
And lucky necrons we get to be updated first to be at a disadvantage longest, after being without an update since 3e so we got to be at a disadvantage the longest...
Also if its correct vehicles will get tougher in 6e, how come they nerfed the monolith!
They did not nerf the Monolith. In exchange for the loss of immunity from Melta's and Lances, Monolith's get another, unique attack that allows them to suck models through their portal and instant kill them on a Toughness check (within 6 inches).
I think that is alot better than immunity.
10$ says you'd kill more Grey Knight Paladins that way than anything else in the army.
Yes but that is kinda useless since getting to 6" to use your new monolith weapon means it gets in range of the meltas the monolith is now vulnerable in
I have two "spyders" which i might want due to anti psi powers and if they get some sort of boost.
But I REALLY like the idea of a long range artillery unit for the crons and want the doom ark
BUT what about those ahnihilation barges? does ANYONE have information on them? I mean are they fast skimmers? the weapons, are they like a heavy guass cannon or something? point costs? They might be a superior choice in HS slots.
[Ghost Ark]... makes the Warrior Unit it is joined to Ever-living.
I got my hands on a WD too. To clear a few things...
Quantum Shielding - Quantum Shielding provides a +2 bonus to AV in Front and Flank of the Vehicle until it suffers a PENETRATING Hit. Glancing will not do the trick.
The weapons on the flanks of the Ghostbark/Doomsday Ark are basically 5 Gauss Flayers that may fire on different targets.
Tesla - Tesla Weapons deal 2 additional hits for each 6 to hit that was rolled.
Staves of the Covenant ARE Power weapons.
Warscythes still add 2D6 to armourpenetration, which is pretty neat with S7.
The Command Barge enables the Lord to attack a unit it flew over, even if it moved flat-out. The lord may deal 3 strikes, which hit on 4+ (3+ if the vehicle moed less 12" or less). Each Wound roll of 6 may be allocated by the Necron Player. All aditional effects of the Lords weapon DO apply. Vehicles are always hit in the rear.
They did not nerf the Monolith. In exchange for the loss of immunity from Melta's and Lances, Monolith's get another, unique attack that allows them to suck models through their portal and instant kill them on a Toughness check (within 6 inches).
I think that is alot better than immunity.
10$ says you'd kill more Grey Knight Paladins that way than anything else in the army.
I didnt say it didnt get buffs as well as nerfs, i was just remarking on the rumour that vehicles will be tougher in 6e, yet ours got weaker.
As you mention the buff i still think it lost more than it gained
pros
The portal attack
better weapons
35 points cheaper
cons
loss of melta etc immunity
loss of wbb rerolls
loss of pulling units from combat
loss of deepstrike mishap safety
If they left porting from combat id be happy with it.
The problem with proposing that all vehicles/transports in 6th will/should be more expensive is that the Rulebook itself doesn't affect it, but the individual codices. Therefore, if some units are made more expensive (say rhinos are 45pts in the next Codex), then they will be even further under-costed in Codices that have not been updated, therefore creating some notable imbalance...
And lucky necrons we get to be updated first to be at a disadvantage longest, after being without an update since 3e so we got to be at a disadvantage the longest...
Also if its correct vehicles will get tougher in 6e, how come they nerfed the monolith!
They did not nerf the Monolith. In exchange for the loss of immunity from Melta's and Lances, Monolith's get another, unique attack that allows them to suck models through their portal and instant kill them on a Toughness check (within 6 inches).
I think that is alot better than immunity.
10$ says you'd kill more Grey Knight Paladins that way than anything else in the army.
I will take that bet, a 6 inch str test isnt going to kill nearly as many paladins as a str 9 ap 2 large blast lol
Sasori wrote:Gorgon, would you mind refreshing my memory on why we don't want to bunker them anymore? I don't remember at all.
Do they normally list the new points cost for things in WD? I don't get it very often.
You can't capture objectives from inside closed-topped transports. You have to disembark, and objectives are scored throughout the game.
Per the rumors, you score 2 VPs every turn (starting at the end of turn 2) you *hold* an objective (nonscoring unit) and 3 VPS every turn you *capture* it (scoring unit). In comparison, you score 1 VP for a unit kill of any kind. It partially depends on how the objectives are placed, but generally you can't just stay in your vehicles in gunline formation and concede the middle of the table for a few turns or else you're going to be in a big VP hole. Edit: And per the rumors, vehicles are *ignored*. So they can't even contest.
After I posted, I remembered that units can hold/capture from inside open-topped transports. So as rumored, it's going to affect certain armies more than others, and Necrons might be the latter category. Still, that should create more disembarked infantry in general.
The problem with proposing that all vehicles/transports in 6th will/should be more expensive is that the Rulebook itself doesn't affect it, but the individual codices. Therefore, if some units are made more expensive (say rhinos are 45pts in the next Codex), then they will be even further under-costed in Codices that have not been updated, therefore creating some notable imbalance...
And lucky necrons we get to be updated first to be at a disadvantage longest, after being without an update since 3e so we got to be at a disadvantage the longest...
Also if its correct vehicles will get tougher in 6e, how come they nerfed the monolith!
They did not nerf the Monolith. In exchange for the loss of immunity from Melta's and Lances, Monolith's get another, unique attack that allows them to suck models through their portal and instant kill them on a Toughness check (within 6 inches).
I think that is alot better than immunity.
10$ says you'd kill more Grey Knight Paladins that way than anything else in the army.
I will take that bet, a 6 inch str test isnt going to kill nearly as many paladins as a str 9 ap 2 large blast lol
You're on. A large blast template isn't cost effective on a small unit (even though they're on large Terminator Bases) and they still have their invulnerable saves to boot. At most you'll net three Paladins (on a direct hit) and kill two; where as I can hit all five (which are common among Terminators, especially highly priced paladins) and kill two-three out right.
Yeah, I found it a bit odd that advanced necron tech could be disabled by lightly scratching it. The fact that penetrating hits only can be able of disabling it makes a lot more sense.
The problem with proposing that all vehicles/transports in 6th will/should be more expensive is that the Rulebook itself doesn't affect it, but the individual codices. Therefore, if some units are made more expensive (say rhinos are 45pts in the next Codex), then they will be even further under-costed in Codices that have not been updated, therefore creating some notable imbalance...
And lucky necrons we get to be updated first to be at a disadvantage longest, after being without an update since 3e so we got to be at a disadvantage the longest...
Also if its correct vehicles will get tougher in 6e, how come they nerfed the monolith!
They did not nerf the Monolith. In exchange for the loss of immunity from Melta's and Lances, Monolith's get another, unique attack that allows them to suck models through their portal and instant kill them on a Toughness check (within 6 inches).
I think that is alot better than immunity.
10$ says you'd kill more Grey Knight Paladins that way than anything else in the army.
I will take that bet, a 6 inch str test isnt going to kill nearly as many paladins as a str 9 ap 2 large blast lol
You're on. A large blast template isn't cost effective on a small unit (even though they're on large Terminator Bases) and they still have their invulnerable saves to boot. At most you'll net three Paladins (on a direct hit) and kill two; where as I can hit all five (which are common among Terminators, especially highly priced paladins) and kill two-three out right.
True enough but I would not risk the incoming hammer for a possible one more kill
I still want to know how the shield works vs. the lance rule. If lance ignores it we are really going to be hurting with all the lance weapons in game and Eldar out next year.
gorgon wrote:
You can't capture objectives from inside closed-topped transports. You have to disembark, and objectives are scored throughout the game.
Per the rumors, you score 2 VPs every turn (starting at the end of turn 2) you *hold* an objective (nonscoring unit) and 3 VPS every turn you *capture* it (scoring unit). In comparison, you score 1 VP for a unit kill of any kind. It partially depends on how the objectives are placed, but generally you can't just stay in your vehicles in gunline formation and concede the middle of the table for a few turns or else you're going to be in a big VP hole. Edit: And per the rumors, vehicles are *ignored*. So they can't even contest.
After I posted, I remembered that units can hold/capture from inside open-topped transports. So as rumored, it's going to affect certain armies more than others, and Necrons might be the latter category. Still, that should create more disembarked infantry in general.
Without the RB in front of me, can you not also launch an assault without penalty from an open topped vehicle, or is that me just wishfully thinking?
I'm starting to see why Necrons decided to go to ground when they knocked over the ant hill by killing the Old Ones. A bunch of angry eldar with brightlances would be pretty good against their vehicles. In fact due to the larger amount of av 13 in the game, it's going to make the darklance/brightlance a fundamentally better gun in general.
Balor wrote:I still want to know how the shield works vs. the lance rule. If lance ignores it we are really going to be hurting with all the lance weapons in game and Eldar out next year.
There are only Two armies that can bring a lot of lances to the fray, so I would not be that concerned. The other armies that can, are much shorter ranged than their DE/El versions.
Balor wrote:I still want to know how the shield works vs. the lance rule. If lance ignores it we are really going to be hurting with all the lance weapons in game and Eldar out next year.
There are only Two armies that can bring a lot of lances to the fray, so I would not be that concerned. The other armies that can, are much shorter ranged than their DE/El versions.
Very true Sasori about it mainly being DE/EL but we will see a huge band wagon on Eldar as they have always had a following either for lore or the cheese that they bring to tournament play. I'm myself always struggle vs. Stealer shock and spore poding zoenthropes with the triple str 10 lance.
bluebomber wrote:I wanted to get this post out befor i went to get battlefield
Do you think that wraiths will still have S 6? or will that go down?
WS 4 BS 4 S 6 T 4 I 2 W 2 A 3 Sv 3++
Rumored, that is....
I2? Seriously? Cripes, they're...still not worth it then. Insta-gibbed by p-fist or equivalent, horrible sweeping advance protection, and now with 2w and higher squad size, that means there's MORE negative you get to your LD when you lose combat. *Ugh*
Keep on mind , they can take an upgrade that is equal to lash whips , putting their opponents initiative to 1
It doesn't change the sweeping advance bit though as the opponent will still get to roll their normal initiative.
Wraiths being fearless makes it pretty hard to get swept regardless of initiative
bluebomber wrote:I wanted to get this post out befor i went to get battlefield
Do you think that wraiths will still have S 6? or will that go down?
WS 4 BS 4 S 6 T 4 I 2 W 2 A 3 Sv 3++
Rumored, that is....
I2? Seriously? Cripes, they're...still not worth it then. Insta-gibbed by p-fist or equivalent, horrible sweeping advance protection, and now with 2w and higher squad size, that means there's MORE negative you get to your LD when you lose combat. *Ugh*
Keep on mind , they can take an upgrade that is equal to lash whips , putting their opponents initiative to 1
It doesn't change the sweeping advance bit though as the opponent will still get to roll their normal initiative.
Wraiths being fearless makes it pretty hard to get swept regardless of initiative
so the sheld makes the a 13 av intill a it is hit? that just seems bad. the Necron lived to 10's of thounds years and that is all it takes. It should work like a weapon destoryed.
Kenmure wrote:so the sheld makes the a 13 av intill a it is hit? that just seems bad. the Necron lived to 10's of thounds years and that is all it takes. It should work like a weapon destoryed.
No, until it is penetrated. There's a difference between "hit" and "penetrating hit"
bluebomber wrote:I wanted to get this post out befor i went to get battlefield
Do you think that wraiths will still have S 6? or will that go down?
WS 4 BS 4 S 6 T 4 I 2 W 2 A 3 Sv 3++
Rumored, that is....
I2? Seriously? Cripes, they're...still not worth it then. Insta-gibbed by p-fist or equivalent, horrible sweeping advance protection, and now with 2w and higher squad size, that means there's MORE negative you get to your LD when you lose combat. *Ugh*
Keep on mind , they can take an upgrade that is equal to lash whips , putting their opponents initiative to 1
It doesn't change the sweeping advance bit though as the opponent will still get to roll their normal initiative.
Wraiths being fearless makes it pretty hard to get swept regardless of initiative
Wraiths get fearless? Where did you see that?
Ill try and dig up the quote but Yak said they were fearless when he confirmed 2 wounds
The problem with proposing that all vehicles/transports in 6th will/should be more expensive is that the Rulebook itself doesn't affect it, but the individual codices. Therefore, if some units are made more expensive (say rhinos are 45pts in the next Codex), then they will be even further under-costed in Codices that have not been updated, therefore creating some notable imbalance...
And lucky necrons we get to be updated first to be at a disadvantage longest, after being without an update since 3e so we got to be at a disadvantage the longest...
Also if its correct vehicles will get tougher in 6e, how come they nerfed the monolith!
They did not nerf the Monolith. In exchange for the loss of immunity from Melta's and Lances, Monolith's get another, unique attack that allows them to suck models through their portal and instant kill them on a Toughness check (within 6 inches).
I think that is alot better than immunity.
10$ says you'd kill more Grey Knight Paladins that way than anything else in the army.
I will take that bet, a 6 inch str test isnt going to kill nearly as many paladins as a str 9 ap 2 large blast lol
You're on. A large blast template isn't cost effective on a small unit (even though they're on large Terminator Bases) and they still have their invulnerable saves to boot. At most you'll net three Paladins (on a direct hit) and kill two; where as I can hit all five (which are common among Terminators, especially highly priced paladins) and kill two-three out right.
This is just wrong, a paladin has 4 str so if it rolls a 1-4 its fine. You could fit 10 paladins under a large blast and if any of them fail there 5+ save they are instantly killed. I dont even see how you can argue this its fairly obvious. Its also much more cost effective point wise, and it literally has 12 times the range. You could fire it 4 times before a monlith is even with in range of its gate attack.
Kenmure wrote:so the sheld makes the a 13 av intill a it is hit? that just seems bad. the Necron lived to 10's of thounds years and that is all it takes. It should work like a weapon destoryed.
No, until it is penetrated. There's a difference between "hit" and "penetrating hit"
ok thats better then when i frist read it i seen hit lol
I think the shields are rather interesting on paper. +2 AV from a vehicle upgrade is certainly nothing to sneeze at. It will boil down to the Shields cost compared to the survivability of the vehicle. AV11 (and in some cases Open-Topped) is something you wouldn't take lightly, especially for the projected points cost, so Vehicle survivability overrides its weapons load-out.
Have you ever seen a Dark Eldar player take Raiders and Ravagers without Flicker Fields (and/or) Night Shrouds?
If the points cost for the upgrade is relatively low (5-15 Points) than it definately makes it a worthwhile upgrade.
StormForged wrote:I think the shields are rather interesting on paper. +2 AV from a vehicle upgrade is certainly nothing to sneeze at. It will boil down to the Shields cost compared to the survivability of the vehicle. AV11 (and in some cases Open-Topped) is something you wouldn't take lightly, especially for the projected points cost, so Vehicle survivability overrides its weapons load-out.
Have you ever seen a Dark Eldar player take Raiders and Ravagers without Flicker Fields (and/or) Night Shrouds?
If the points cost for the upgrade is relatively low (5-15 Points) than it definately makes it a worthwhile upgrade.
Yak already said its not an upgrade. It either has it or it dosent.
Do you roll during the Necron turn or the other player's turn?
Is it only one 5+ roll, or do you roll at the end of each phase for a downed model?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
StormForged wrote:I think the shields are rather interesting on paper. +2 AV from a vehicle upgrade is certainly nothing to sneeze at. It will boil down to the Shields cost compared to the survivability of the vehicle. AV11 (and in some cases Open-Topped) is something you wouldn't take lightly, especially for the projected points cost, so Vehicle survivability overrides its weapons load-out.
Have you ever seen a Dark Eldar player take Raiders and Ravagers without Flicker Fields (and/or) Night Shrouds?
If the points cost for the upgrade is relatively low (5-15 Points) than it definately makes it a worthwhile upgrade.
I think quantum shield is actually automatically taken by the vehicle. So you don't have to pay for it.
Kenmure wrote:so the sheld makes the a 13 av intill a it is hit? that just seems bad. the Necron lived to 10's of thounds years and that is all it takes. It should work like a weapon destoryed.
Um... Might I point out that 60,000 years ago in storyline was 20,000 BCE... AV 13 is amazing against tree branches and slingshots...
Well if the shield is only gone on a pen that really does change stuff besides silly lance weapons. Monos with AV 16 is crazy that means only weapons that can roll more then one D6 to pen or lance weapons can kill it! .... Besides ED/El grenades. Meltas must roll a 2D6 of 9 or more. Cheater Knights hammers can't pen a monolith srt10 + D6. It also makes the Doomsday Barge worth 175, you may even get three rounds of shooting from it.
Balor wrote:Well if the shield is only gone on a pen that really does change stuff besides silly lance weapons. Monos with AV 16 is crazy that means only weapons that can roll more then one D6 to pen or lance weapons can kill it! .... Besides ED/El grenades. Meltas must roll a 2D6 of 9 or more. Cheater Knights hammers can't pen a monolith srt10 + D6. It also makes the Doomsday Barge worth 175, you may even get three rounds of shooting from it.
Rest assured the monolith does not have quantum shielding.
Balor wrote:Well if the shield is only gone on a pen that really does change stuff besides silly lance weapons. Monos with AV 16 is crazy that means only weapons that can roll more then one D6 to pen or lance weapons can kill it! .... Besides ED/El grenades. Meltas must roll a 2D6 of 9 or more. Cheater Knights hammers can't pen a monolith srt10 + D6. It also makes the Doomsday Barge worth 175, you may even get three rounds of shooting from it.
I don't think monoliths get Sheilds...but if they did hilarity will ensue.
Balor wrote:Well if the shield is only gone on a pen that really does change stuff besides silly lance weapons. Monos with AV 16 is crazy that means only weapons that can roll more then one D6 to pen or lance weapons can kill it! .... Besides ED/El grenades. Meltas must roll a 2D6 of 9 or more. Cheater Knights hammers can't pen a monolith srt10 + D6. It also makes the Doomsday Barge worth 175, you may even get three rounds of shooting from it.
I am pretty sure monos do not have quantum shielding
Well if the shield is only gone on a pen that really does change stuff besides silly lance weapons. Monos with AV 16 is crazy that means only weapons that can roll more then one D6 to pen or lance weapons can kill it! .... Besides ED/El grenades. Meltas must roll a 2D6 of 9 or more. Cheater Knights hammers can't pen a monolith srt10 + D6. It also makes the Doomsday Barge worth 175, you may even get three rounds of shooting from it.
monos dont get quantum shielding so just staright av14 with normal vulnerabilities to meltas etc
gorgon wrote:
You can't capture objectives from inside closed-topped transports. You have to disembark, and objectives are scored throughout the game.
Per the rumors, you score 2 VPs every turn (starting at the end of turn 2) you *hold* an objective (nonscoring unit) and 3 VPS every turn you *capture* it (scoring unit). In comparison, you score 1 VP for a unit kill of any kind. It partially depends on how the objectives are placed, but generally you can't just stay in your vehicles in gunline formation and concede the middle of the table for a few turns or else you're going to be in a big VP hole. Edit: And per the rumors, vehicles are *ignored*. So they can't even contest.
After I posted, I remembered that units can hold/capture from inside open-topped transports. So as rumored, it's going to affect certain armies more than others, and Necrons might be the latter category. Still, that should create more disembarked infantry in general.
Without the RB in front of me, can you not also launch an assault without penalty from an open topped vehicle, or is that me just wishfully thinking?
Well, now you can, depending on your speed. We were discussing rumored 6th ed rules. Interestingly, in those it appears that units can't charge from any moving vehicle -- open or closed -- unless they're Fleet. Another point on open-topped in the rumors...there's no modifier on the damage charts anymore.
Farquestor wrote:
Um... Might I point out that 60,000 years ago in storyline was 20,000 BCE... AV 13 is amazing against tree branches and slingshots...
Why did I get an image of Basil Fawlty smacking his red Austin Maxi just then
The problem with proposing that all vehicles/transports in 6th will/should be more expensive is that the Rulebook itself doesn't affect it, but the individual codices. Therefore, if some units are made more expensive (say rhinos are 45pts in the next Codex), then they will be even further under-costed in Codices that have not been updated, therefore creating some notable imbalance...
And lucky necrons we get to be updated first to be at a disadvantage longest, after being without an update since 3e so we got to be at a disadvantage the longest...
Also if its correct vehicles will get tougher in 6e, how come they nerfed the monolith!
They did not nerf the Monolith. In exchange for the loss of immunity from Melta's and Lances, Monolith's get another, unique attack that allows them to suck models through their portal and instant kill them on a Toughness check (within 6 inches).
I think that is alot better than immunity.
10$ says you'd kill more Grey Knight Paladins that way than anything else in the army.
I will take that bet, a 6 inch str test isnt going to kill nearly as many paladins as a str 9 ap 2 large blast lol
You're on. A large blast template isn't cost effective on a small unit (even though they're on large Terminator Bases) and they still have their invulnerable saves to boot. At most you'll net three Paladins (on a direct hit) and kill two; where as I can hit all five (which are common among Terminators, especially highly priced paladins) and kill two-three out right.
This is just wrong, a paladin has 4 str so if it rolls a 1-4 its fine. You could fit 10 paladins under a large blast and if any of them fail there 5+ save they are instantly killed. I dont even see how you can argue this its fairly obvious. Its also much more cost effective point wise, and it literally has 12 times the range. You could fire it 4 times before a monlith is even with in range of its gate attack.
No experienced Grey Knight player would ever field 10 Paladins in a squad. That's just asking for trouble (unless its a 'character' led army, which still wouldn't warrant such an expensive group). Secondly, if you're hitting 10 paladins with one blast, then the other player is doing something wrong.
Thirdly, the Doomsday Ark has to remain immobile in order to fire its S9 Template, so the likely hood of the paladins using terrain to block line of sight is high, so in reality you would get 2-3 shots and a +4 Cover on top of that, which actually increases their survivability rate.
Fourthly, while the monolith has to get really close to use its portal, I can still hit all 10 Paladins and they get no saves what-so-ever plus, depending on how the portal attack works (whether if its done in the shooting phase or not) still have a Flux Arc to shoot at them.
A 150 point open-topped vehicle (as some people have mentioned) with/without upgrades and weapons (which again is in the New Codex and left open for scrutiny) that must be immobile to fire its strength 9 template that isn't ordonance barrage is (in my view) the worst thing you could ever consider buying as a long range heavy support choice. Not only do you need line of sight, but more likely you're exposing yourself, which undoubtedly means it'll get one shot then explode!
Until I see the actual Codex, I'd prefer the Monolith over the Doomsday Farce hands down in that situation.
Without the RB in front of me, can you not also launch an assault without penalty from an open topped vehicle, or is that me just wishfully thinking?
Well, now you can, depending on your speed. We were discussing rumored 6th ed rules. Interestingly, in those it appears that units can't charge from any moving vehicle -- open or closed -- unless they're Fleet. Another point on open-topped in the rumors...there's no modifier on the damage charts anymore.
Well that'll certainly change things if it does come with 6th ed, guess I'll have to rethink my Necron list then, thanks for the heads up
bluebomber wrote:I wanted to get this post out befor i went to get battlefield
Do you think that wraiths will still have S 6? or will that go down?
WS 4 BS 4 S 6 T 4 I 2 W 2 A 3 Sv 3++
Rumored, that is....
I2? Seriously? Cripes, they're...still not worth it then. Insta-gibbed by p-fist or equivalent, horrible sweeping advance protection, and now with 2w and higher squad size, that means there's MORE negative you get to your LD when you lose combat. *Ugh*
Keep on mind , they can take an upgrade that is equal to lash whips , putting their opponents initiative to 1
It doesn't change the sweeping advance bit though as the opponent will still get to roll their normal initiative.
Wraiths being fearless makes it pretty hard to get swept regardless of initiative
Wraiths get fearless? Where did you see that?
Ill try and dig up the quote but Yak said they were fearless when he confirmed 2 wounds
This is all I see on the first page, and they've been pretty diligent about keeping it all there:
• Canoptek Wraiths: Protectors of the Tombs while the hosts slumber.
1-6 in a unit. Jump Infantry who ignore terrain (don't take tests). Still have a 3+ invulnerable save and 3A base with Rending. 2 Wounds, but only I2. All models can take one of a few different upgrades including a Whip Coil (nearly identical to a Tyranid Lash Whip), particle caster (pistol) or a Exile Beamer (12" ranged heavy weapon that kills a randomly chosen model in the target unit unless it passes a Strength test). Roughly the same amount of points they used to be.
I'm an interested party in the new Necron release...and interestingly, all of this analysis has led me to decide not buy certain units (at least right away). If I hadn't seen discussed the various strengths and weaknesses of the units, perhaps I would have just succumbed to desire to buy a whole bunch of new toys.
That's not to say I won't buy some stuff...it's just that I'm going to be a lot more...cautious....with the first release. Interestingly, this might be what GW is afraid of the most - that the internet chooses the winners and losers of a codex before it's released and thus decrease sales of units dubbed "losers." Personally, I'd say the fix should be on the rules side, because it is impossible to control information like this in the internet.
im going to buy a little of all any ways but i have a terment at the end of next mouth and i want to use my necrons and know i have a lot of information so i know what is good to use and what is ok and can start thinking about what i want to do and how to make my list. thank the overlord i save money for this reless.
Yakface wrote,
19) Besides a few units that are Fearless (Wraiths, Tomb Spyders and Scarabs), the army doesn't have any sort of blanket immunity to morale. They are still Ld10, but obviously we know that still leaves them very vulnerable to being run down in combat, and it looks like that will remain a big Achilles heel.
is where i believe people are getting the idea that wraiths are fearless.
Am I the only person who thinks a unit of 6 wraiths could potentially be absolutely stupid, especially since yak says they cost pretty close to what they do now? They can pop vehicles decently and at 6S and WS5 they will give pretty much any PF/TH-equipped unit a fair amount of pain. The trouble will be keeping them alive, but at least they have the invuln save so MMs and MLs won't outright wipe them. Plus, hey, RP.
void stalker wrote:
from the original necron thread
Yakface wrote,
19) Besides a few units that are Fearless (Wraiths, Tomb Spyders and Scarabs), the army doesn't have any sort of blanket immunity to morale. They are still Ld10, but obviously we know that still leaves them very vulnerable to being run down in combat, and it looks like that will remain a big Achilles heel.
is where i believe people are getting the idea that wraiths are fearless.
Ostrakon wrote:Am I the only person who thinks a unit of 6 wraiths could potentially be absolutely stupid, especially since yak says they cost pretty close to what they do now? They can pop vehicles decently and at 6S and WS5 they will give pretty much any PF/TH-equipped unit a fair amount of pain. The trouble will be keeping them alive, but at least they have the invuln save so MMs and MLs won't outright wipe them. Plus, hey, RP.
6 wraiths is 12 wounds worth of models. That tends to last a bit longer than 6 wounds worth of models.
The problem with proposing that all vehicles/transports in 6th will/should be more expensive is that the Rulebook itself doesn't affect it, but the individual codices. Therefore, if some units are made more expensive (say rhinos are 45pts in the next Codex), then they will be even further under-costed in Codices that have not been updated, therefore creating some notable imbalance...
And lucky necrons we get to be updated first to be at a disadvantage longest, after being without an update since 3e so we got to be at a disadvantage the longest...
Also if its correct vehicles will get tougher in 6e, how come they nerfed the monolith!
They did not nerf the Monolith. In exchange for the loss of immunity from Melta's and Lances, Monolith's get another, unique attack that allows them to suck models through their portal and instant kill them on a Toughness check (within 6 inches).
I think that is alot better than immunity.
10$ says you'd kill more Grey Knight Paladins that way than anything else in the army.
I will take that bet, a 6 inch str test isnt going to kill nearly as many paladins as a str 9 ap 2 large blast lol
You're on. A large blast template isn't cost effective on a small unit (even though they're on large Terminator Bases) and they still have their invulnerable saves to boot. At most you'll net three Paladins (on a direct hit) and kill two; where as I can hit all five (which are common among Terminators, especially highly priced paladins) and kill two-three out right.
This is just wrong, a paladin has 4 str so if it rolls a 1-4 its fine. You could fit 10 paladins under a large blast and if any of them fail there 5+ save they are instantly killed. I dont even see how you can argue this its fairly obvious. Its also much more cost effective point wise, and it literally has 12 times the range. You could fire it 4 times before a monlith is even with in range of its gate attack.
No experienced Grey Knight player would ever field 10 Paladins in a squad. That's just asking for trouble (unless its a 'character' led army, which still wouldn't warrant such an expensive group). Secondly, if you're hitting 10 paladins with one blast, then the other player is doing something wrong.
Thirdly, the Doomsday Ark has to remain immobile in order to fire its S9 Template, so the likely hood of the paladins using terrain to block line of sight is high, so in reality you would get 2-3 shots and a +4 Cover on top of that, which actually increases their survivability rate.
Fourthly, while the monolith has to get really close to use its portal, I can still hit all 10 Paladins and they get no saves what-so-ever plus, depending on how the portal attack works (whether if its done in the shooting phase or not) still have a Flux Arc to shoot at them.
A 150 point open-topped vehicle (as some people have mentioned) with/without upgrades and weapons (which again is in the New Codex and left open for scrutiny) that must be immobile to fire its strength 9 template that isn't ordonance barrage is (in my view) the worst thing you could ever consider buying as a long range heavy support choice. Not only do you need line of sight, but more likely you're exposing yourself, which undoubtedly means it'll get one shot then explode!
Until I see the actual Codex, I'd prefer the Monolith over the Doomsday Farce hands down in that situation.
Just think about what your saying, Grey knight paladin AT has a range of 24in. You cant even get close enough to use a 6in weapon. Even if you do, you will kill only 1/3 of the paladins. If even one paladin lives hes gona wreck it with a hammer. While at 72 inches away you are causing instant death with no vulnerability to your weapon. As a grey knight paladin player I am much more worried about the large blast lol. Even guard doesn't have that good of an AP weapon at that range. I am sure if you think this is over you would agree.
Ostrakon wrote:Am I the only person who thinks a unit of 6 wraiths could potentially be absolutely stupid, especially since yak says they cost pretty close to what they do now? They can pop vehicles decently and at 6S and WS5 they will give pretty much any PF/TH-equipped unit a fair amount of pain. The trouble will be keeping them alive, but at least they have the invuln save so MMs and MLs won't outright wipe them. Plus, hey, RP.
6 wraiths is 12 wounds worth of models. That tends to last a bit longer than 6 wounds worth of models.
Right, that's my point! Plus, 3++/5+++ should go a long way. If they clock in at 50 points per I'd probably rather take them than Lychguard at this point since I can't fathom how I'd get them to the enemy in the first place.
Ostrakon wrote:Am I the only person who thinks a unit of 6 wraiths could potentially be absolutely stupid, especially since yak says they cost pretty close to what they do now? They can pop vehicles decently and at 6S and WS5 they will give pretty much any PF/TH-equipped unit a fair amount of pain. The trouble will be keeping them alive, but at least they have the invuln save so MMs and MLs won't outright wipe them. Plus, hey, RP.
I have three built and painted and another two in blisters. I consider this unit a 1+ for my army. I also want to run a unit of 6 as a counter assault unit.
void stalker wrote:
from the original necron thread
Yakface wrote,
19) Besides a few units that are Fearless (Wraiths, Tomb Spyders and Scarabs), the army doesn't have any sort of blanket immunity to morale. They are still Ld10, but obviously we know that still leaves them very vulnerable to being run down in combat, and it looks like that will remain a big Achilles heel.
is where i believe people are getting the idea that wraiths are fearless.
If that's the case, then great. But the fact it hasn't been mentioned in here worries me. need codex NOW!
Ostrakon wrote:Am I the only person who thinks a unit of 6 wraiths could potentially be absolutely stupid, especially since yak says they cost pretty close to what they do now? They can pop vehicles decently and at 6S and WS5 they will give pretty much any PF/TH-equipped unit a fair amount of pain. The trouble will be keeping them alive, but at least they have the invuln save so MMs and MLs won't outright wipe them. Plus, hey, RP.
Well, what I want to know is if wraiths are still T4, cuz if they are then if they get hit by a S8 wep, then it doesnt matter if they have 2W. If they fail their 3++ then they're down like a fly, and then they have to pass their RP to keep their one wound. Wouldnt be the worse thing in the world, but it would still be so annoying.
Ostrakon wrote:Am I the only person who thinks a unit of 6 wraiths could potentially be absolutely stupid, especially since yak says they cost pretty close to what they do now? They can pop vehicles decently and at 6S and WS5 they will give pretty much any PF/TH-equipped unit a fair amount of pain. The trouble will be keeping them alive, but at least they have the invuln save so MMs and MLs won't outright wipe them. Plus, hey, RP.
6 wraiths is 12 wounds worth of models. That tends to last a bit longer than 6 wounds worth of models.
Right, that's my point! Plus, 3++/5+++ should go a long way. If they clock in at 50 points per I'd probably rather take them than Lychguard at this point since I can't fathom how I'd get them to the enemy in the first place.
Then why did you call them stupid? That implies its a bad thing.
But yeah, new wraiths are pretty nasty. I tried them out in a kill team match. 3 wraiths against a GK Venerable Dread.
I lost...but I immobilized it and ripped away both its weapons. And I would have wrecked it if it weren't for that damn re-roll damage Special Rule.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
cyberscape7 wrote:
Ostrakon wrote:Am I the only person who thinks a unit of 6 wraiths could potentially be absolutely stupid, especially since yak says they cost pretty close to what they do now? They can pop vehicles decently and at 6S and WS5 they will give pretty much any PF/TH-equipped unit a fair amount of pain. The trouble will be keeping them alive, but at least they have the invuln save so MMs and MLs won't outright wipe them. Plus, hey, RP.
Well, what I want to know is if wraiths are still T4, cuz if they are then if they get hit by a S8 wep, then it doesnt matter if they have 2W. If they fail their 3++ then they're down like a fly, and then they have to pass their RP to keep their one wound. Wouldnt be the worse thing in the world, but it would still be so annoying.
Ostrakon wrote:Am I the only person who thinks a unit of 6 wraiths could potentially be absolutely stupid...
Then why did you call them stupid? That implies its a bad thing. ...
Stupid can go either way. It all depends on emphasis ("I dropped a stupid amount of templates on him", "On the charge, they have a stupid amount of attacks"). Much like sarcasm, the true meaning is more easily understood in spoken language.
Just think about what your saying, Grey knight paladin AT has a range of 24in. You cant even get close enough to use a 6in weapon. Even if you do, you will kill only 1/3 of the paladins. If even one paladin lives hes gona wreck it with a hammer. While at 72 inches away you are causing instant death with no vulnerability to your weapon. As a grey knight paladin player I am much more worried about the large blast lol. Even guard doesn't have that good of an AP weapon at that range. I am sure if you think this is over you would agree.
*I shortened the quote so the others wouldn't get peeved with a page of backlogged quotes*
The Monolith can Deepstrike. Now, I did not see the little tidbit about it not being immune to the Deepstrike mishap, so it has changed my opinion on it a little, and depending on how the wording is in the Codex, teleport Reserves through the portal and use the attack in the shooting phase.
Now while this assumption is worthless until the Codex comes out, but as a Tau player and Mech/Artillery Guard player, the Doomsday Ark is not worth its points in my opinion.
It's the stationary part that makes me frown.
You either can use it three ways:
1) Deploy it out of line-of-sight, move it out first turn, then fire it second turn.
2) Deploy in line of sight and pray that nothing blows it apart, so you can fire it turn one.
3) You get first turn. (Which, in retro-spect, is a downside, because your opponent can deploy to circumvent the Ark's LoS. Trust me, people do it to Battle Suits and Hammerhands on a constant basis).
The Earth Shaker Cannon on the Basilisk is AP3 and shoots far longer distances, and it doesn't require line of sight, and its ordonance barrage (meaning -1 to Leadership and 2D6 armor Pen and pick the highest and no cover saves if it the center lands in area terrain). The Medusa, however, range aside, is Strength 10 and AP2 but only at 36 Inches.
Both are cheaper (By the rumor's points cost, the Basilisk is 15 Points less, while the Medusa is 10) and can still fire without line of sight, which is more preferrable than sticking an Armor 13 (Quantum Shields), open-topped, stationary Doomsday Ark in the open.
If the Doomsday Ark could move and shoot, then I would whole-heartedly agree with you, however, as the current rumors stand, its not a worthwhile vehicle.
Just think about what your saying, Grey knight paladin AT has a range of 24in. You cant even get close enough to use a 6in weapon. Even if you do, you will kill only 1/3 of the paladins. If even one paladin lives hes gona wreck it with a hammer. While at 72 inches away you are causing instant death with no vulnerability to your weapon. As a grey knight paladin player I am much more worried about the large blast lol. Even guard doesn't have that good of an AP weapon at that range. I am sure if you think this is over you would agree.
*I shortened the quote so the others wouldn't get peeved with a page of backlogged quotes*
The Monolith can Deepstrike. Now, I did not see the little tidbit about it not being immune to the Deepstrike mishap, so it has changed my opinion on it a little, and depending on how the wording is in the Codex, teleport Reserves through the portal and use the attack in the shooting phase.
Now while this assumption is worthless until the Codex comes out, but as a Tau player and Mech/Artillery Guard player, the Doomsday Ark is not worth its points in my opinion.
It's the stationary part that makes me frown.
You either can use it three ways:
1) Deploy it out of line-of-sight, move it out first turn, then fire it second turn.
2) Deploy in line of sight and pray that nothing blows it apart, so you can fire it turn one.
3) You get first turn. (Which, in retro-spect, is a downside, because your opponent can deploy to circumvent the Ark's LoS. Trust me, people do it to Battle Suits and Hammerhands on a constant basis).
The Earth Shaker Cannon on the Basilisk is AP3 and shoots far longer distances, and it doesn't require line of sight, and its ordonance barrage (meaning -1 to Leadership and 2D6 armor Pen and pick the highest and no cover saves if it the center lands in area terrain). The Medusa, however, range aside, is Strength 10 and AP2 but only at 36 Inches.
Both are cheaper (By the rumor's points cost, the Basilisk is 15 Points less, while the Medusa is 10) and can still fire without line of sight, which is more preferrable than sticking an Armor 13 (Quantum Shields), open-topped, stationary Doomsday Ark in the open.
If the Doomsday Ark could move and shoot, then I would whole-heartedly agree with you, however, as the current rumors stand, its not a worthwhile vehicle.
The monolith is a worthwhile vehicle for sure. I love its utility, I might even agree its better then the Doomsday ark in general. However, as far as killing paladins it just doesn't compare in my opinion. You have to get so close to do so little damage. As for deployment and LOS I don't know about your play location, but in mine pretty much nothing blocks line of sight from vehicles. No terrain is large enough to hide behind completely, you can get a cover save easy enough, but you can always see some tiny part of the vehicle/squad and shoot at it. This is a problem from the rules changing regarding line of sight from another addition but the terrain reaming the same size.
You guys do realize it's a Strength Test, right? Meaning you need to roll 2d6, and hope you get lower than your strength. 4 or less on 2d6 isn't a certainty at all.
Ostrakon wrote:Am I the only person who thinks a unit of 6 wraiths could potentially be absolutely stupid, especially since yak says they cost pretty close to what they do now? They can pop vehicles decently and at 6S and WS5 they will give pretty much any PF/TH-equipped unit a fair amount of pain. The trouble will be keeping them alive, but at least they have the invuln save so MMs and MLs won't outright wipe them. Plus, hey, RP.
I have three built and painted and another two in blisters. I consider this unit a 1+ for my army. I also want to run a unit of 6 as a counter assault unit.
Lots of Wraiths would be good for me as I have 9 (I was planning to play the 3 monolith, 9 wraith list under the old dex).
Anvildude wrote:You guys do realize it's a Strength Test, right? Meaning you need to roll 2d6, and hope you get lower than your strength. 4 or less on 2d6 isn't a certainty at all.
Attribute tests are done on a single D6, with the exception of Leadership.
You guys do realize it's a Strength Test, right? Meaning you need to roll 2d6, and hope you get lower than your strength. 4 or less on 2d6 isn't a certainty at all.
Stat test are made with ONE D6...not 2...and a 6 is always a failure.
Possibly an important point -- in the rumored 6th edition rules, units may charge the turn they deep strike. Most units only get a 6" advance move after the DS, so you have to land close. And under those rules it's normally a very risky thing to even attempt to DS within 6" of another unit. But with a homer...
You guys do realize it's a Strength Test, right? Meaning you need to roll 2d6, and hope you get lower than your strength. 4 or less on 2d6 isn't a certainty at all.
Stat test are made with ONE D6...not 2...and a 6 is always a failure.
Just Dave wrote:Can people stop quoting huge amounts of text for mundane debates? Please.
I think Wraiths will prove to be pretty damn good against vehicles; Str 6 rending jump infantry; yes please! Negates their weak initiative too.
Yep. As I said in a earlier post, I tried out 3 of them in a killteam match against a venerable GK dreadnaught with 2 TL S8 autocannons. They lost in the end, but only because the GK player made me reroll the wrecked result. And I still took away its Autocannons and its legs.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Abaddon wrote:
Slayer le boucher wrote:
Anvildude wrote:
You guys do realize it's a Strength Test, right? Meaning you need to roll 2d6, and hope you get lower than your strength. 4 or less on 2d6 isn't a certainty at all.
Stat test are made with ONE D6...not 2...and a 6 is always a failure.
1 is always a failure I thought..?
No. 1 is always a failure for shooting, CC and saves. For characteristic tests its the other way around.
Ah. Whoopsy. Wonder if that's gonna change, though? 'cause that'd be a much more awesome and fear-inducing weapon if that were the case. As it is, it means nothing over strength 5 has much to fear.
Anvildude wrote:Ah. Whoopsy. Wonder if that's gonna change, though? 'cause that'd be a much more awesome and fear-inducing weapon if that were the case. As it is, it means nothing over strength 5 has much to fear.
Not really. They can still die on a roll of a 6.
And if it does become 2d6 then these weapons will becoming ridiculously OP.
Anvildude wrote:Ah. Whoopsy. Wonder if that's gonna change, though? 'cause that'd be a much more awesome and fear-inducing weapon if that were the case. As it is, it means nothing over strength 5 has much to fear.
Well, there's already similar (but much scarier IMHO) weapon, which takes an I test: Jaws of the World Wolf.
This just occured to me but, their line of thinking on getting rid of deepstriking mishap immunity for the monolith makes sense. Primarily because it says it's always treated as stationary in the shooting phase. Which would mean that the monolith can come in from deepstrike and still fire all weapons, where as opponents will only be able to hit it the following melee on a 6.
Also the whip doesn't sound like it's ordnance anymore so it can be fired with the flux arcs in the same phase (and probably the portal attack if your close enough).
Ostrakon wrote:I really hope all these models still come with green rods, but these just have them painted over. I swear I'm the only guy who actually likes them.
You probably aren't, but GW may have grown weary of dealing with customer complaints because they got paint on them or got frosted by using the wrong glue.
Here's my take on the Nerfs to the Monolith: I suspect that in 6th Ed., any penetrating damage roll of a 6 will insta-kill whatever is inside a transport. The monolith, however will never have units inside it. It can just use its unlimited-range teleporter to bring units to their destination. That will give it a huge advantage over something like a Rhino, and start to justify the Monolith's high comparative points cost.
As for the Doorway to Nowhere (or whatever it's called) of the Monolith, I'd say that models with a strength value of 5 or greater are justifiably safe from the Roomba attack. You only use a vaccuum cleaner to pick up dirt and debris, not huge chunks of trash. As for its use, well, that's just it: it sucks up hordes like an existentialist shop-vac. It's not meant to work on MCs and their ilk.
Fan67 wrote:I am really starting to think about least painful method of converting current Immortals to wield tesla...
And this picture from WD... There is something wrong with it... May be the mixture of units with and without the green rods...
I really hope all these models still come with green rods, but these just have them painted over. I swear I'm the only guy who actually likes them.
The green rods are one of the top reasons I chose to play as the Necrons.
pretre wrote:
azazel the cat wrote: I suspect that in 6th Ed., any penetrating damage roll of a 6 will insta-kill whatever is inside a transport.
Hi there 3rd Edition Ordnance Table. I find this unlikely.
Forgive me for not getting the reference, but 3rd Ed. was a little before my time. I think it would make sense: if you and your friends pile into a minivan, and the minivan explodes, you do not get to disembark.
azazel the cat wrote: Hi there 3rd Edition Ordnance Table. I find this unlikely.
Forgive me for not getting the reference, but 3rd Ed. was a little before my time. I think it would make sense: if you and your friends pile into a minivan, and the minivan explodes, you do not get to disembark.
You're forgiven, but, having lived through that nastiness, they will probably not go there again. Otherwise you will see very few transports in 6th edition. I missed 4th, but heard that the vehicle rules made transports entangling death traps rather than annihilating ones. I doubt they'll go backward to annihilating again.
In 3rd edition, you would have "no survivors" if your transport was "annihilated" (roll a 6 on damage roll when hit with an ordinance weapon). All other instances are a simply wound on a 4+. That's it.
In 4th edition, if your vehicle moved more than 6" and you suffered ANY penetrating hit (regardless of result), the passengers would be wounded on a 4+. If your vehicle becomes wrecked/explodes and you were moving more than 6", then you do the same except you reroll the auto-wound on a 4+ if you didn't get wounded.
Death trap.
Don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but the White Dwarf claims the standard Necron Warrior is 13 points rather than 12. Immortals stay at 17 (and are looking better and better in comparison).
Assaulting after deep strike is a planet strike special rule. Doubt it will make it into standard rules. Try it and you will see what I mean. Whole armies could be destroyed by turn three.
GrumpyJester wrote:Don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but the White Dwarf claims the standard Necron Warrior is 13 points rather than 12. Immortals stay at 17 (and are looking better and better in comparison).
4 extra points gets you a +1 to your save, a +1 to your weapon strength and a choice of weapon loadout? I may completely ignore Warriors and use only Immortals as my troops.
jspyd3rx wrote:Assaulting after deep strike is a planet strike special rule. Doubt it will make it into standard rules. Try it and you will see what I mean. Whole armies could be destroyed by turn three.
I know that's what I'm saying. Sorry if my sarcasm didn't get across, but my Dante-lead army most of my squads have power weapons that would wipe the floor instantaneously. I <3 Sanguinary Guard.
GrumpyJester wrote:Don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but the White Dwarf claims the standard Necron Warrior is 13 points rather than 12. Immortals stay at 17 (and are looking better and better in comparison).
4 extra points gets you a +1 to your save, a +1 to your weapon strength and a choice of weapon loadout? I may completely ignore Warriors and use only Immortals as my troops.
...We've gotta be missing something there.
You can get twice as many guns in the Warrior unit since Immortals are 5-10 vs 5-20.
GrumpyJester wrote:Don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but the White Dwarf claims the standard Necron Warrior is 13 points rather than 12. Immortals stay at 17 (and are looking better and better in comparison).
4 extra points gets you a +1 to your save, a +1 to your weapon strength and a choice of weapon loadout? I may completely ignore Warriors and use only Immortals as my troops.
...We've gotta be missing something there.
You can get twice as many guns in the Warrior unit since Immortals are 5-10 vs 5-20.
That can't possibly be the reasoning. 2x10 Immortals side-by side is a stronger choice than 1x20 Warriors any day.
jspyd3rx wrote:Assaulting after deep strike is a planet strike special rule. Doubt it will make it into standard rules. Try it and you will see what I mean. Whole armies could be destroyed by turn three.
As opposed to normal games where entire armies can be destroyed by the end of turn 2 due to shooting
bluebomber wrote:I wanted to get this post out befor i went to get battlefield
Do you think that wraiths will still have S 6? or will that go down?
WS 4 BS 4 S 6 T 4 I 2 W 2 A 3 Sv 3++
Rumored, that is....
I2? Seriously? Cripes, they're...still not worth it then. Insta-gibbed by p-fist or equivalent, horrible sweeping advance protection, and now with 2w and higher squad size, that means there's MORE negative you get to your LD when you lose combat. *Ugh*
Keep on mind , they can take an upgrade that is equal to lash whips , putting their opponents initiative to 1
IMHO if its that essential to almost be mandatory, then its not really an upgrade...its just a more expensive unit.
Interesting. The transport appears to be quite long. And they haven't abandoned the green rods completely, although they did edge the Monolith's crystal with silver.
Unfortunately the picture makes it very difficult to identify anything. Complex silver/gold models against a detailed background.
GrumpyJester wrote:Don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but the White Dwarf claims the standard Necron Warrior is 13 points rather than 12. Immortals stay at 17 (and are looking better and better in comparison).
4 extra points gets you a +1 to your save, a +1 to your weapon strength and a choice of weapon loadout? I may completely ignore Warriors and use only Immortals as my troops.
...We've gotta be missing something there.
You can get twice as many guns in the Warrior unit since Immortals are 5-10 vs 5-20.
That can't possibly be the reasoning. 2x10 Immortals side-by side is a stronger choice than 1x20 Warriors any day.
Which is why they cost so much more. But remember, you can't regen the immortals through that one vehicle either, so that's another thing to consider. Factor in the cost of immortals + upgraded guns then see how many warriors you can get in with the same amount of points, that's where the biggest difference will be noticed.
Azazel:
Warriors can take a Ghost Ark. Which doesn't look like it'll be a bad idea.
Personally I'll be using mostly Immortals, but I think Warriors are far from a bad choice.
H.B.M.C. wrote:Interesting. The transport appears to be quite long. And they haven't abandoned the green rods completely, although they did edge the Monolith's crystal with silver.
Unfortunately the picture makes it very difficult to identify anything. Complex silver/gold models against a detailed background.
You can click the pic and zoom in on it in the gallery. It helped.
GrumpyJester wrote:Don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but the White Dwarf claims the standard Necron Warrior is 13 points rather than 12. Immortals stay at 17 (and are looking better and better in comparison).
4 extra points gets you a +1 to your save, a +1 to your weapon strength and a choice of weapon loadout? I may completely ignore Warriors and use only Immortals as my troops.
...We've gotta be missing something there.
Well, it's a relative increase of 30%, but still. Immortals are worth that in every scenario I can come up with. The Ghost Ark might make a difference, but with its 115 point value it's not exactly a "free buff" either for the Warriors.
Only downside to Immortals that I can see is that they're twice as expensive to purchase, and that most people will already have plenty of Warriors lying around.
[Ghost Ark]... makes the Warrior Unit it is joined to Ever-living.
I got my hands on a WD too. To clear a few things...
Quantum Shielding - Quantum Shielding provides a +2 bonus to AV in Front and Flank of the Vehicle until it suffers a PENETRATING Hit. Glancing will not do the trick.
The weapons on the flanks of the Ghostbark/Doomsday Ark are basically 5 Gauss Flayers that may fire on different targets.
Tesla - Tesla Weapons deal 2 additional hits for each 6 to hit that was rolled.
Staves of the Covenant ARE Power weapons.
Warscythes still add 2D6 to armourpenetration, which is pretty neat with S7.
The Command Barge enables the Lord to attack a unit it flew over, even if it moved flat-out. The lord may deal 3 strikes, which hit on 4+ (3+ if the vehicle moed less 12" or less). Each Wound roll of 6 may be allocated by the Necron Player. All aditional effects of the Lords weapon DO apply. Vehicles are always hit in the rear.
That changes quite a lot if true.
Just like to point out that Yak said that Ever-Living is an IC special rule, and doesn't work for units.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Woot! 1st 100 page!!!!
Warriors vs immortals will likely be the same scenario as blood claws vs grey hunters. One choice is obviously better. The points cost difference will be somewhat of a deciding factor, but I'll bet Tesla carbines add points per model rather than being a free swap.
[Ghost Ark]... makes the Warrior Unit it is joined to Ever-living.
I got my hands on a WD too. To clear a few things...
Quantum Shielding - Quantum Shielding provides a +2 bonus to AV in Front and Flank of the Vehicle until it suffers a PENETRATING Hit. Glancing will not do the trick.
The weapons on the flanks of the Ghostbark/Doomsday Ark are basically 5 Gauss Flayers that may fire on different targets.
Tesla - Tesla Weapons deal 2 additional hits for each 6 to hit that was rolled.
Staves of the Covenant ARE Power weapons.
Warscythes still add 2D6 to armourpenetration, which is pretty neat with S7.
The Command Barge enables the Lord to attack a unit it flew over, even if it moved flat-out. The lord may deal 3 strikes, which hit on 4+ (3+ if the vehicle moed less 12" or less). Each Wound roll of 6 may be allocated by the Necron Player. All aditional effects of the Lords weapon DO apply. Vehicles are always hit in the rear.
I wonder, will this count as shooty weapon, or CC weapon? CC weapons as delivered from a command barge would create some interesting options.
So who else thinks that 2 squads of 3-5 court with solar pulse and lance things will be the norm. Solar pulses allow you to go second, and therefore position your doomsday arcs with no chance of retaliatory fire. You then have turn 1 and 2 of virtually no damage, as nightfighting messes up things that can kill your vehicles (Missles, dakka dreds, all devs/fangs, most 36" range guns, etc.) You also have 6 sources of anti tank. Thoughts?
123birds wrote:So who else thinks that 2 squads of 3-5 court with solar pulse and lance things will be the norm. Solar pulses allow you to go second, and therefore position your doomsday arcs with no chance of retaliatory fire. You then have turn 1 and 2 of virtually no damage, as nightfighting messes up things that can kill your vehicles (Missles, dakka dreds, all devs/fangs, most 36" range guns, etc.) You also have 6 sources of anti tank. Thoughts?
I have been talking with some local guys and depending on cost, two solar pulses will be auto include. Have to wait till the book comes out to be sure, but 2 turns of night fight for your opponent may be up there with psy-dreads for the level of awesome.
As of now, without calculating points, my list will look like this:
HQ:
Stormlord
Cheapest possible lord
Two squads of cryptek with lance things and solar pulse
Troops:
3x 10 warrior squads all in/with ghosts
Fast Attack:
1x 10 scarabs
2x 6 wraiths
Heavy Support:
1x monolith
1x doomsday
1x 3 spyders
Quick question, do spyders creating scarabs allow the squad to go over max size? if so, you could take 9 and in one turn, you get 10 scarabs to 19, the next turn means 28. If you go first, that means by the time the enemy can shoot them (guessing that night fight lifted by turn 3), ideally, you will be able to have a 37 scarab squad, multi-assaulting half the board.
LunaHound wrote:Wow people love Necrons THIS MUCH!
Necrons got me into 40k. After playing Dark Crusade, I wound up getting a single immortal, and then got AOBR so I could figure out how to use it, then more necrons.
The army shot is from the back page of the upcoming WD (featuring the army that Robin is playing in the battle report).
The WD includes the full rules of the command barge and the annihilator barge as a teaser, to comply with the new "rules in every WD" policy.
Also some nice pics.
BTW the battle report has Mat Ward and Robin Cruddace as Necrons and "designer team" fight against Andrew Kendrick (as Space Marines led by Sicarius -> Fall of Damnos) and Simon Grant as Eldar (both as "WD team" ). Nice small fluff around the match. The end result:
LunaHound wrote:Wow people love Necrons THIS MUCH!
Necrons got me into 40k. After playing Dark Crusade, I wound up getting a single immortal, and then got AOBR so I could figure out how to use it, then more necrons.
I was shocked when Dark Eldar's update generated tons of interest. ( well THAT much i mean )
But had no idea Necrons are so popular too
[Ghost Ark]... makes the Warrior Unit it is joined to Ever-living.
I got my hands on a WD too. To clear a few things...
Quantum Shielding - Quantum Shielding provides a +2 bonus to AV in Front and Flank of the Vehicle until it suffers a PENETRATING Hit. Glancing will not do the trick. The weapons on the flanks of the Ghostbark/Doomsday Ark are basically 5 Gauss Flayers that may fire on different targets.
Tesla - Tesla Weapons deal 2 additional hits for each 6 to hit that was rolled.
Staves of the Covenant ARE Power weapons.
Warscythes still add 2D6 to armourpenetration, which is pretty neat with S7.
The Command Barge enables the Lord to attack a unit it flew over, even if it moved flat-out. The lord may deal 3 strikes, which hit on 4+ (3+ if the vehicle moed less 12" or less). Each Wound roll of 6 may be allocated by the Necron Player. All aditional effects of the Lords weapon DO apply. Vehicles are always hit in the rear.
That changes quite a lot if true.
If the bolded turns out to be true then I will seriously have to revise my opinion regarding the point cost of the ark.
Command barge with a scythe lord could turn out to be a hilarious way to take out vehicles.
LunaHound wrote:Wow people love Necrons THIS MUCH!
Necrons got me into 40k. After playing Dark Crusade, I wound up getting a single immortal, and then got AOBR so I could figure out how to use it, then more necrons.
Necrons also got me into 40k years ago and now I'm ready for a new book.
Kroothawk wrote:The army shot is from the back page of the upcoming WD (featuring the army that Robin is playing in the battle report).
The WD includes the full rules of the command barge and the annihilator barge as a teaser, to comply with the new "rules in every WD" policy.
Also some nice pics.
BTW the battle report has Mat Ward and Robin Cruddace as Necrons and "designer team" fight against Andrew Kendrick (as Space Marines led by Sicarius -> Fall of Damnos) and Simon Grant as Eldar (both as "WD team" ). Nice small fluff around the match. The end result:
Spoiler:
Necrons lose because of one dice roll at the end.
Ha! That's way better than my games with current 'crons usually end!
LunaHound wrote:Wow people love Necrons THIS MUCH!
Necrons got me into 40k. After playing Dark Crusade, I wound up getting a single immortal, and then got AOBR so I could figure out how to use it, then more necrons.
Necrons also got me into 40k years ago and now I'm ready for a new book.
1 generation passed by, now you are ready for some grand children Necrons
[Ghost Ark]... makes the Warrior Unit it is joined to Ever-living.
I got my hands on a WD too. To clear a few things...
Quantum Shielding - Quantum Shielding provides a +2 bonus to AV in Front and Flank of the Vehicle until it suffers a PENETRATING Hit. Glancing will not do the trick. The weapons on the flanks of the Ghostbark/Doomsday Ark are basically 5 Gauss Flayers that may fire on different targets.
Tesla - Tesla Weapons deal 2 additional hits for each 6 to hit that was rolled.
Staves of the Covenant ARE Power weapons.
Warscythes still add 2D6 to armourpenetration, which is pretty neat with S7.
The Command Barge enables the Lord to attack a unit it flew over, even if it moved flat-out. The lord may deal 3 strikes, which hit on 4+ (3+ if the vehicle moed less 12" or less). Each Wound roll of 6 may be allocated by the Necron Player. All aditional effects of the Lords weapon DO apply. Vehicles are always hit in the rear.
That changes quite a lot if true.
If the bolded turns out to be true then I will seriously have to revise my opinion regarding the point cost of the ark.
Command barge with a scythe lord could turn out to be a hilarious way to take out vehicles.
The scythe is no doubt good, but you could also use the weapon with entropy and rending (cheaper?) to drop a vehicle's armor in the movement phase before you shoot.
Ostrakon wrote:If the bolded turns out to be true then I will seriously have to revise my opinion regarding the point cost of the ark.
The WD indeed confirms the bold parts of the quote.
BTW the Necron Warriors of the Ghost Ark feature battle damage (and a scarab repairing them), so these can be used for mixing with normal warriors.
I went from "not sure if I'm going to run these" to "I'm going to pre-order three of them".
GG, GW.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Trozen wrote:
Ostrakon wrote:
Anpu-adom wrote:
Aldaris wrote:Some more news!
Bram Gaunt on Warseer strikes again:
[Ghost Ark]... makes the Warrior Unit it is joined to Ever-living.
I got my hands on a WD too. To clear a few things...
Quantum Shielding - Quantum Shielding provides a +2 bonus to AV in Front and Flank of the Vehicle until it suffers a PENETRATING Hit. Glancing will not do the trick. The weapons on the flanks of the Ghostbark/Doomsday Ark are basically 5 Gauss Flayers that may fire on different targets.
Tesla - Tesla Weapons deal 2 additional hits for each 6 to hit that was rolled.
Staves of the Covenant ARE Power weapons.
Warscythes still add 2D6 to armourpenetration, which is pretty neat with S7.
The Command Barge enables the Lord to attack a unit it flew over, even if it moved flat-out. The lord may deal 3 strikes, which hit on 4+ (3+ if the vehicle moed less 12" or less). Each Wound roll of 6 may be allocated by the Necron Player. All aditional effects of the Lords weapon DO apply. Vehicles are always hit in the rear.
That changes quite a lot if true.
If the bolded turns out to be true then I will seriously have to revise my opinion regarding the point cost of the ark.
Command barge with a scythe lord could turn out to be a hilarious way to take out vehicles.
The scythe is no doubt good, but you could also use the weapon with entropy and rending (cheaper?) to drop a vehicle's armor in the movement phase before you shoot.
Nice. You'd only expect to lower it a point or 2, but for a lot of vehicles that turns flayer glances into penetrates.
EDIT: but then again, with the warscythe you'd expect 2ish penetrates straight up on most vehicles, which would probably be preferable.
I have been talking with some local guys and depending on cost, two solar pulses will be auto include. Have to wait till the book comes out to be sure, but 2 turns of night fight for your opponent may be up there with psy-dreads for the level of awesome.
Is anyone else worried that due to the night fighting forced on your opponent and you free from it being so powerfull we are going to see almost every necron list with storm lord and 2x solar pulse using crypteks now?
I have been talking with some local guys and depending on cost, two solar pulses will be auto include. Have to wait till the book comes out to be sure, but 2 turns of night fight for your opponent may be up there with psy-dreads for the level of awesome.
Is anyone else worried that due to the night fighting forced on your opponent and you free from it being so powerfull we are going to see almost every necron list with storm lord and 2x solar pulse using crypteks now?
Doubtful. You'd need to buy Imotek, another lord, and two of those crypteks with solar pulse. That probably amounts to a solid 500 points before you even add the muscle necessary to make that work.
I have been talking with some local guys and depending on cost, two solar pulses will be auto include. Have to wait till the book comes out to be sure, but 2 turns of night fight for your opponent may be up there with psy-dreads for the level of awesome.
Is anyone else worried that due to the night fighting forced on your opponent and you free from it being so powerfull we are going to see almost every necron list with storm lord and 2x solar pulse using crypteks now?
Doubtful. You'd need to buy Imotek, another lord, and two of those crypteks with solar pulse. That probably amounts to a solid 500 points before you even add the muscle necessary to make that work.
Also if your playing against a CC army like nids, I am sure they would love for you to make it night fight. The reason they gave it to necrons is because they are a shooting army, you often don't want to make it night fight.
Also if your playing against a CC army like nids, I am sure they would love for you to make it night fight. The reason they gave it to necrons is because they are a shooting army, you often don't want to make it night fight.
Your solar pulses would still allow you to shoot on your turn, while pounding nid units with lightning each turn its night fight and messing with hive guard range. Even against cc armies, it's not useless
Also if your playing against a CC army like nids, I am sure they would love for you to make it night fight. The reason they gave it to necrons is because they are a shooting army, you often don't want to make it night fight.
Against a cc army no not a lot of use, but as for you not wanting it to be night fight, thats the point of the solar pulses. You turn it on for your opponent using the storm lord, and then in your turn you use the solar pulse to negate it. 1+ turns of night fightng for your opponent and no night fighting for you (since you use solar pulse on your first 2 turns to turn it off)
Just it does seem so powerful against shooty armies that are more numerous than cc ones, and most people here (not all but its by far the most common listed army build) are listing that combo as something they will use
I hope I can find a good substitute, that will work with the new models as well.
Still, shouldn't be too bad; they're still S6 I guess 