Kroothawk wrote:The army shot is from the back page of the upcoming WD (featuring the army that Robin is playing in the battle report).
The WD includes the full rules of the command barge and the annihilator barge as a teaser, to comply with the new "rules in every WD" policy.
Also some nice pics.
BTW the battle report has Mat Ward and Robin Cruddace as Necrons and "designer team" fight against Andrew Kendrick (as Space Marines led by Sicarius -> Fall of Damnos) and Simon Grant as Eldar (both as "WD team" ). Nice small fluff around the match. The end result:
Spoiler:
Necrons lose because of one dice roll at the end.
Awesome, awesome. Was Cruddace one of the contributors to the codex, or did he just happen to be teamed up with Ward because they're writers in general?
Also, the tesla destructor and tesla cannon come with the annihilation barge, correct? What is the Strength of tesla cannon (i'm assuming 6, since the destructor is 7 and the carbine is 5) and are they both twin-linked?
I will be picking up the WD as soon as my store has it in stock.
I have been talking with some local guys and depending on cost, two solar pulses will be auto include. Have to wait till the book comes out to be sure, but 2 turns of night fight for your opponent may be up there with psy-dreads for the level of awesome.
Is anyone else worried that due to the night fighting forced on your opponent and you free from it being so powerfull we are going to see almost every necron list with storm lord and 2x solar pulse using crypteks now?
I wasnt even talking about using stormlord. I would just take 2 solarpulses to shut down the enemy's long range shooting. The music my ears await is the crys of "cheese" from psydread using GKs
Hell, tremorstaves alone will be useful in slowing down fast approaching foot units, much like DE beast packs. Using the c'tan to force dangerous terrain tests, causing wounds for free all while slowing the assault. Brilliant!
I wasnt even talking about using stormlord. I would just take 2 solarpulses to shut down the enemy's long range shooting. The music my ears await is the crys of "cheese" from psydread using GKs
does it work that way though? in the current (old?) codex if used to turn night fighting on for the enemy it only does it if they are shooting at the lord who used it. If it works army wide now then yes thats a cheaper way of getting roughly the same effect.
I wasnt even talking about using stormlord. I would just take 2 solarpulses to shut down the enemy's long range shooting. The music my ears await is the crys of "cheese" from psydread using GKs
does it work that way though? in the current (old?) codex if used to turn night fighting on for the enemy it only does it if they are shooting at the lord who used it. If it works army wide now then yes thats a cheaper way of getting roughly the same effect.
Of course IG players(a big threat IMO) can just use Searchlights and be done with it
I wasnt even talking about using stormlord. I would just take 2 solarpulses to shut down the enemy's long range shooting. The music my ears await is the crys of "cheese" from psydread using GKs
does it work that way though? in the current (old?) codex if used to turn night fighting on for the enemy it only does it if they are shooting at the lord who used it. If it works army wide now then yes thats a cheaper way of getting roughly the same effect.
Of course IG players(a big threat IMO) can just use Searchlights and be done with it
I wasnt even talking about using stormlord. I would just take 2 solarpulses to shut down the enemy's long range shooting. The music my ears await is the crys of "cheese" from psydread using GKs
does it work that way though? in the current (old?) codex if used to turn night fighting on for the enemy it only does it if they are shooting at the lord who used it. If it works army wide now then yes thats a cheaper way of getting roughly the same effect.
Of course IG players(a big threat IMO) can just use Searchlights and be done with it
Thats what fast attack is for.
Yeah...Valks/Vendettas with searchlights can be a big thorn in the nightfight strategy.
Well for anyone who is seeking a new destroyer look....this can be done easily by using the destroyer chassis and the lych guard torsos....and maybe the extra heads you get from the immortal box for the death marks.
The only thing I don't like when this codex drops, is all the band-wagoners/power gamers... I don't mind if they intend to stick with the army, but when they pick it up to play it and drop it cause the newest codex is coming out...thats what I dislike.....
That's the difference between being a necron player for 8 years and waiting forever for the new codex to drop, and being a vet vs saying you're a vet and pretending to be one...with the use of eBay bought metal models....
I can bet I'll see 20 new necron players in each store when this thing drops....vs the 2 or 3 (including me) who have been playing for years, and deeply appreciate them no matter what.
I got to say that the fine cast Nightbringer is definitely on my list as a want! Who is with me?
The only thing I don't like when this codex drops, is all the band-wagoners/power gamers... I don't mind if they intend to stick with the army, but when they pick it up to play it and drop it cause the newest codex is coming out...thats what I dislike.....
That's with every new release. The IG release brought scores of power gamers fielding IG net lists to all my local tournaments and it irritated me to no end.
However, I think the Necrons are going to be an 'advanced' army like the Dark Eldar, and the ravening rush of fruit-of-the-month players won't be too severe.
The Necron Codex looks fun from both rules and updates for 6th edition. Their background, however, leaves alot to be desired.
And while I'm on the subject of the 6th edition rumor popping up in this thread about Deep striking units being able to assault the turn they land:
Evegoden wrote:
That's the difference between being a necron player for 8 years and waiting forever for the new codex to drop, and being a vet vs saying you're a vet and pretending to be one...with the use of eBay bought metal models....
I can bet I'll see 20 new necron players in each store when this thing drops....vs the 2 or 3 (including me) who have been playing for years, and deeply appreciate them no matter what.
I bet I will be in similar shoes (Though you are likely more of a vet than I am)
StormForged wrote:And while I'm on the subject of the 6th edition rumor popping up in this thread about Deep striking units being able to assault the turn they land:
Are they trying to make gunlines non-existant?
One of the rumours in 6th is the possibility that Preferred Enemy will affect shooting as well. Tau have an HQ (Ethereals?) that gives the entire army Preferred Enemy when said HQ dies. I can imagine suicide-running a Tau HQ in order to give that ability to a very shooty army-sized Tau gunline in 6th. Just as one potential example. And I really believe that transporting units will carry an element of danger in the next codex. Maybe not on the level of the 3rd Ed. ordnance tables as has been pointed out to me, but I suspect something will give pause to players fielding Razorback spam.
StormForged wrote:And while I'm on the subject of the 6th edition rumor popping up in this thread about Deep striking units being able to assault the turn they land:
Are they trying to make gunlines non-existant?
One of the rumours in 6th is the possibility that Preferred Enemy will affect shooting as well. Tau have an HQ (Ethereals?) that gives the entire army Preferred Enemy when said HQ dies. I can imagine suicide-running a Tau HQ in order to give that ability to a very shooty army-sized Tau gunline in 6th. Just as one potential example. And I really believe that transporting units will carry an element of danger in the next codex. Maybe not on the level of the 3rd Ed. ordnance tables as has been pointed out to me, but I suspect something will give pause to players fielding Razorback spam.
Last I checked it gave furious charge, not preferred enemy, though I could be wrong (I've never fielded an ethereal and its been 2 years since my Tau appeared on the table...). In any case, you first have to pass a leadership test with all your units, not exactly a viable tactic/strategy.
I am quite glad to hear about the Quantum Shielding rule (only being lost on a penetrating hit). The version of the rule I have gave serious indication that there might be a massive typo with it (or that they had changed their mind back and forth about how the rule would work), but I just decided to post the more conservative version of the rule so as not to get anyone's hopes up if it turned out not to be a typo. But having Quantum Shielding last until the vehicle is penetrated makes the point costs of these vehicles, much, much more reasonable IMHO.
But the Warscythe having 2D6 armor penetration against vehicles? That is definitely a complete change from what I have!
Now that there has been some information about Necrons, what are people's opinions about their potential ability to be competitive? I don't care about being national tournament champ, but I don't want to put a lot more money in them if I am going to be feeling underpowered.
Here is what I have, and am thinking about ordering to round things out. I took a hiatus from 40k for a couple years waiting on new necron book and had picked up a small force off of a friend. Let me know what you think:
Have:
Necron Lord with Rez. Orb.
38 Necron Warriors
3 Necron Destroyers
7 Scarab Swarms
5 Immortals
Nightbringer C'tan
I am quite glad to hear about the Quantum Shielding rule (only being lost on a penetrating hit). The version of the rule I have gave serious indication that there might be a massive typo with it (or that they had changed their mind back and forth about how the rule would work), but I just decided to post the more conservative version of the rule so as not to get anyone's hopes up if it turned out not to be a typo. But having Quantum Shielding last until the vehicle is penetrated makes the point costs of these vehicles, much, much more reasonable IMHO.
But the Warscythe having 2D6 armor penetration against vehicles? That is definitely a complete change from what I have!
Yeah the Quantum Shielding rule turns the arks from overpriced (possibility of having to buy plus glance pop) to reasonable. Given the fact your warrior squads will slough off wounds with it and its going to be a worthy investment. Really looking forward to the various combinations and other tidbits that make it to the final codex from what is rumored.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nightsbane wrote:Now that there has been some information about Necrons, what are people's opinions about their potential ability to be competitive? I don't care about being national tournament champ, but I don't want to put a lot more money in them if I am going to be feeling underpowered.
Here is what I have, and am thinking about ordering to round things out. I took a hiatus from 40k for a couple years waiting on new necron book and had picked up a small force off of a friend. Let me know what you think:
Have:
Necron Lord with Rez. Orb.
38 Necron Warriors
3 Necron Destroyers
7 Scarab Swarms
5 Immortals
Nightbringer C'tan
The army has to drag character behind it with a team of wheel-barrels, that has been enough for me for the Necron armies ive fielded since their 2nd edition blurb. If you just want to omg win with them then sincerely look to another army, the amount you listed to spend can outfit a nice powerful Grey Knight army that will break the will of others to win. The rules and feel point to an army that wont be point and click and can be hurt by poor planning. With that said it is the current GW release, of course its going to be competitive against people.
All this new info is pretty sweet, but there's been a lot of talk about vehicles; I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts on how to use Lychguard and Praetorians? I really want to get a box soley for looks but it seems like everyone is going for Wraiths when it comes to CC. I was thinking the Sword and Shield combo could be used to screen Immortals, since they have no transport other than the Nightscythe. Praetorians seem like rather straightforward CC units.
My shopping list is probabaly something like this:
Command Barge-This is going to be my army's centerpiece, looks way too cool not to use
Lychguard/Praetorian-The most Tomb Kings looking guys aside from lords, which is something I kinda always wanted from crons.
Ghost and Doomsday Arks-Simply seem fun to play with and I plan on using a large core of warriors
Judging from photos of the ghost ark/doomsday ark, I wonder if it would be possible to simply magnetize the doomsday cannon to come on and off of the bottom of the barge, but leave the Ultramarine symbols in the upright fashion. When using as a transport, pop off the big gun. When using as a gunship, put the big gun on. Without seeing the kit in person I doubt there's any way to know if it's possible, but I always liked having the option of running my razorbacks as rhinos and vice-versa, I hope i can have the same opportunity with this vehicle (especially at $50 USD each!)
tetrisphreak wrote:Judging from photos of the ghost ark/doomsday ark, I wonder if it would be possible to simply magnetize the doomsday cannon to come on and off of the bottom of the barge, but leave the Ultramarine symbols in the upright fashion. When using as a transport, pop off the big gun. When using as a gunship, put the big gun on. Without seeing the kit in person I doubt there's any way to know if it's possible, but I always liked having the option of running my razorbacks as rhinos and vice-versa, I hope i can have the same opportunity with this vehicle (especially at $50 USD each!)
I agree, I'm going to try for it, for the main reason not just being able to switch out but also because the model looks much cooler with the forks up.
Nightsbane wrote:Like I said, I'm not looking for "I win/faceroll" I just want to be able to be competitive. The models, fluff, and new vehicles are quite awesome.
Based on what has come out in this thread, imho, Necrons will be another 'Advanced' Army to field in that they are competitive if played well and cannot revolve around a 'Death-Star Unit' like alot of Space Marine and Chapter Afilliated lists can have. They're going to require alot of foresight and planning to work well, especially since most of their vehicles act as transports to a degree (except for the Command Barge I think).
That's why I'm half-itching to read the actual Codex to see what combinations compliment each other, especially with their slew of new vehicles.
Well, I will definitely be fielding Immortals, I <3 their carbines. However, I will not by buying any, as I have x20 of the following
I collected Necrons wayyyy back in the day, like in 2001... I also have 30 of the old metal warriors. Leaves room for me to spend my money on more awesome models
Nightsbane wrote:Like I said, I'm not looking for "I win/faceroll" I just want to be able to be competitive. The models, fluff, and new vehicles are quite awesome.
Based on what has come out in this thread, imho, Necrons will be another 'Advanced' Army to field in that they are competitive if played well and cannot revolve around a 'Death-Star Unit' like alot of Space Marine and Chapter Afilliated lists can have. They're going to require alot of foresight and planning to work well, especially since most of their vehicles act as transports to a degree (except for the Command Barge I think).
That's why I'm half-itching to read the actual Codex to see what combinations compliment each other, especially with their slew of new vehicles.
Uh i can see quite a few deathstar units in a necron army, giving some examples, lychguard with shields, joined by a lord with warscythe phaseshifter, orb, gaze of flame...., 6 wraiths joined by a destroyer lord with warscythe, orb, whatever he can take.
tetrisphreak wrote:Judging from photos of the ghost ark/doomsday ark, I wonder if it would be possible to simply magnetize the doomsday cannon to come on and off of the bottom of the barge, but leave the Ultramarine symbols in the upright fashion. When using as a transport, pop off the big gun. When using as a gunship, put the big gun on. Without seeing the kit in person I doubt there's any way to know if it's possible, but I always liked having the option of running my razorbacks as rhinos and vice-versa, I hope i can have the same opportunity with this vehicle (especially at $50 USD each!)
It isnt doable without some converting. You would have to cut the spikes off along the bottom. Also, idn if you saw, but the warriors stand on angled panels. Not such a big deal though unless the cannon mounts to that shape.
Uh i can see quite a few deathstar units in a necron army, giving some examples, lychguard with shields, joined by a lord with warscythe phaseshifter, orb, gaze of flame...., 6 wraiths joined by a destroyer lord with warscythe, orb, whatever he can take.
Can Wraith's and Destroyers still turbo-boost? I can't remember if they could in the current Codex or not, or if they can in the New Codex.
Nightsbane wrote:Like I said, I'm not looking for "I win/faceroll" I just want to be able to be competitive. The models, fluff, and new vehicles are quite awesome.
Nightsbane wrote:Like I said, I'm not looking for "I win/faceroll" I just want to be able to be competitive. The models, fluff, and new vehicles are quite awesome.
Matt Ward.
Had help on the codex, and so far it sounds like it's turning out quite well. Matt wards codexes aren't "Faceroll" books. They've generally had Good (If poorly worded) rules, and been balanced. It even sounds like the fluff is being well written in this book, which would be a first for his.
Perhaps you should write out your point next time though, instead of just "Matt Ward"
Codices written by Matt Ward:
Grey Knights
Blood Angels
Armies currently used most frequently during competitive play:
Grey Knights
Blood Angels
Imperial Guard
Space Wolves
My point was that Matt Ward codices tend to be somewhat powerful, in response to a concern about the power of the Necrons with the new codice, written by Matt Ward. I assumed that the correlation between Matt Ward and high-powered codices was not much of a secret and thus did not require more of an explanation. Thank you for correcting me.
azazel the cat wrote:Codices written by Matt Ward:
Grey Knights
Blood Angels
Armies currently used most frequently during competitive play:
Grey Knights
Blood Angels
Imperial Guard
Space Wolves
My point was that Matt Ward codices tend to be somewhat powerful, in response to a concern about the power of the Necrons with the new codice, written by Matt Ward. I assumed that the correlation between Matt Ward and high-powered codices was not much of a secret and thus did not require more of an explanation. Thank you for correcting me.
He also wrote The Vanilla Space Marine Book as well. Dark Eldar have won their fair share of Tournaments too. I think it's more along the lines of books that are newer tend to edge out a lot of books that are older, with new point values, and taking into account the current state of the main rules edition.
azazel the cat wrote:Codices written by Matt Ward:
Grey Knights
Blood Angels
Armies currently used most frequently during competitive play:
Grey Knights
Blood Angels
Imperial Guard
Space Wolves
My point was that Matt Ward codices tend to be somewhat powerful, in response to a concern about the power of the Necrons with the new codice, written by Matt Ward. I assumed that the correlation between Matt Ward and high-powered codices was not much of a secret and thus did not require more of an explanation. Thank you for correcting me.
You realize there are only three people who have written a 5th edition 40k codex (Ward, Cruddace, and Kelly)? Any list of 4 codexes has to double up on one of them.
peebzguy wrote:Well, I will definitely be fielding Immortals, I <3 their carbines. However, I will not by buying any, as I have x20 of the following
I collected Necrons wayyyy back in the day, like in 2001... I also have 30 of the old metal warriors. Leaves room for me to spend my money on more awesome models
Nice to see someone else using the old figs....I have 10 of the Immortals and 60 of the old Warriors so I have a head start with the new dex. I've preordered 20 of the new Immortals to go with the old ones however to give me more options.
yakface wrote:Trazyn the Infinite: He is a Necron who woke very early and is fascinated with studying and collecting history. His tomb world is filled with secret trinkets including (I quote) 'a giant of a man clad in baroque power armor' (start your wild theories here!). He even will attack other Necron tomb worlds to capture artifacts from them that he doesn't think they deserve.
Well, if you have a primarch as a paperweight, I think you'd have some barges in your garage.
As hilarious as that would be, I really am more interested in Amraykn (sp?) the Traveller. His vehicle hacking ability fills my head with thoughts of turning the flamers from a Redeemer Landraider on the nearby squads of BA.
The Traveller is probably going to be my number one choice for an HQ only because my friend plays Tau. Granted I have to get real close to do so, but hacking his Hammerhead would be the best trolling ever.
It's already in Apoc Reloaded as a strategum for a Necron Lord. I hacked a Warhound once and shot some BA spec character in the back with a turbo laser, he made his inv save though
Wow, been hearing a lot of people talking bout the new WD. Is it available in stores, or has it just been leaked, (like everything else to do with this update )?
MasterSlowPoke wrote:You realize there are only three people who have written a 5th edition 40k codex (Ward, Cruddace, and Kelly)? Any list of 4 codexes has to double up on one of them.
But... did you know that 40% of all sick days are taken on a Monday or a Friday? My boss dropped this little tidbit of knowledge on me a while back.
So...stupid question perhaps, given that I am thinking of staring necrons should I buy the current battleforce or wait for new destroyers? warriors? swarms?
Sasori wrote:I think what I may do for Destroyers, is Equip Spare Warriors with The Praetorian Jumppack, and Use the Spare Deathmark gun from the Immortals box.
I don't see any reason to keep using the massive versions, if they have changed from Jetbikes to Jump Infantry.
I plan on doing the same thing, or if the 'battle damaged' necron warriors that come with the ghost ark have arm slots i plan on using those to make deathmarks, if possible. I have a feeling from the photo that their arms are molded crossed over their chests, though, and will make them usable only for stand-ins in a regular necron warrior squad.
Sasori wrote:I think what I may do for Destroyers, is Equip Spare Warriors with The Praetorian Jumppack, and Use the Spare Deathmark gun from the Immortals box.
I don't see any reason to keep using the massive versions, if they have changed from Jetbikes to Jump Infantry.
Different base size might offend some people.
Also, I just realized something big regarding Praetorians and the new Destroyers.
If they're jump infantry, they can deep strike in by virtue of that alone. Heavy destroyers dropping into enemy rear armor? Yes please.
I have one question; how will this "Traveller" guy interact with one-shot or single-use weapons? I can imagine some BA players might have fits if you fire off all their bloodstrike missiles at a single hapless marine/Memphiston...
Sasori wrote:I think what I may do for Destroyers, is Equip Spare Warriors with The Praetorian Jumppack, and Use the Spare Deathmark gun from the Immortals box.
I don't see any reason to keep using the massive versions, if they have changed from Jetbikes to Jump Infantry.
Different base size might offend some people.
Also, I just realized something big regarding Praetorians and the new Destroyers.
If they're jump infantry, they can deep strike in by virtue of that alone. Heavy destroyers dropping into enemy rear armor? Yes please.
It Might, but I've never heard of any Jump Infantry who use the flying base.
Sasori wrote:I think what I may do for Destroyers, is Equip Spare Warriors with The Praetorian Jumppack, and Use the Spare Deathmark gun from the Immortals box.
I don't see any reason to keep using the massive versions, if they have changed from Jetbikes to Jump Infantry.
That's actually a pretty good idea, maybe you could even use the battle damaged warriors from the ghost ark set for it?
You are allowed to fire all weapons, that would include single use weapons. Morale of the story for the BA player - use the Blood strikes before then, or dont get it within 24" of the character...
I might go with a version of my "Immortal Destroyer" that I made a few years ago with spare bits.
Swap the second gun arm for a normal one, slap some sort of jetpack on him, stick him up on a flight stand...maybe swap out the legs for something more stout like the lyche guard.
Robbietobbie wrote:My girlfriend picked it up for me yesterday so it's available alright
I picked it up yesterday as well. Guess it depends on the country, I'm from the Netherlands just like Robbietobbie.
Speaking of the White Dwarf: I never found anything on the Warscythe rolling 2D6 against armour. It most definitely states that Warriors are 13 points however, separately when discussing the Warrior and in the army lists for the battle report. Some other point values that can be learned from the battle report are:
- Necron Lord @ 45 points
- Necron Cryptek @ 35 points and 55 points (depending on wargear no doubt)
- Lychguard @ 40 points...however, one squad of 5 was +25 points more expensive...could be that the shield option is +5 points.
- Deathmarks @ 19 points...not that bad, actually.
- Flayed Ones @ 13 points (and no mention at all of the "Fearsome Visage" rule or something they used to have)
- Warriors @ 13 points
- Ghost Ark @ 115 points
- Immortals @ 17 points regardless of weapon
- Scarabs @ 15 points per base
- Destroyers @ 40 points
- Heavy Destroyers @ 60 points
nosferatu1001 wrote:Sasori - Chaos Raptors use the flight stands.
You are allowed to fire all weapons, that would include single use weapons. Morale of the story for the BA player - use the Blood strikes before then, or dont get it within 24" of the character...
just think what you could do with the Gray knight missiles --- oh happy days !!!!!!
Robbietobbie wrote:My girlfriend picked it up for me yesterday so it's available alright
I picked it up yesterday as well. Guess it depends on the country, I'm from the Netherlands just like Robbietobbie.
Speaking of the White Dwarf: I never found anything on the Warscythe rolling 2D6 against armour. It most definitely states that Warriors are 13 points however, separately when discussing the Warrior and in the army lists for the battle report. Some other point values that can be learned from the battle report are:
- Necron Lord @ 45 points
- Necron Cryptek @ 35 points and 55 points (depending on wargear no doubt)
- Lychguard @ 40 points...however, one squad of 5 was +25 points more expensive...could be that the shield option is +5 points.
- Deathmarks @ 19 points...not that bad, actually.
- Flayed Ones @ 13 points (and no mention at all of the "Fearsome Visage" rule or something they used to have)
- Warriors @ 13 points
- Ghost Ark @ 115 points
- Immortals @ 17 points regardless of weapon
- Scarabs @ 15 points per base
- Destroyers @ 40 points
- Heavy Destroyers @ 60 points
So, there was no Mention of the Doomsday Ark Being 175, like posted earlier in the thread? I have hope then, if that's the case. And thanks for this. Nice to know it's free to swap Immortal weapons.
Sasori wrote:I think what I may do for Destroyers, is Equip Spare Warriors with The Praetorian Jumppack, and Use the Spare Deathmark gun from the Immortals box.
I don't see any reason to keep using the massive versions, if they have changed from Jetbikes to Jump Infantry.
Different base size might offend some people.
Also, I just realized something big regarding Praetorians and the new Destroyers.
If they're jump infantry, they can deep strike in by virtue of that alone. Heavy destroyers dropping into enemy rear armor? Yes please.
It Might, but I've never heard of any Jump Infantry who use the flying base.
Might be expensive for a Suicide unit though.
Would be interesting if you could attach the Destroyer Lord to that Unit. With an Orb, they would be quite the pain, and should be able to take out at least their points cost.
But the same thing goes for Wraiths too. They'll be hard on armor.
Robbietobbie wrote:My girlfriend picked it up for me yesterday so it's available alright
I picked it up yesterday as well. Guess it depends on the country, I'm from the Netherlands just like Robbietobbie.
Speaking of the White Dwarf: I never found anything on the Warscythe rolling 2D6 against armour. It most definitely states that Warriors are 13 points however, separately when discussing the Warrior and in the army lists for the battle report. Some other point values that can be learned from the battle report are:
- Necron Lord @ 45 points
- Necron Cryptek @ 35 points and 55 points (depending on wargear no doubt)
- Lychguard @ 40 points...however, one squad of 5 was +25 points more expensive...could be that the shield option is +5 points.
- Deathmarks @ 19 points...not that bad, actually.
- Flayed Ones @ 13 points (and no mention at all of the "Fearsome Visage" rule or something they used to have)
- Warriors @ 13 points
- Ghost Ark @ 115 points
- Immortals @ 17 points regardless of weapon
- Scarabs @ 15 points per base
- Destroyers @ 40 points
- Heavy Destroyers @ 60 points
So, there was no Mention of the Doomsday Ark Being 175, like posted earlier in the thread? I have hope then, if that's the case. And thanks for this. Nice to know it's free to swap Immortal weapons.
I didn't mention those because I thought their point costs were already clear...Doom Ark @ 175 points and Annihilation Barge @ 90 points. Necron Overlord in Command Barge @ 210 points.
Mat Wards describes the army as "more numerous than other elite armies". It will inflict the majority of its damage in the Shooting Phase. When he's planning his army for the battle report he opts for an army that's "all about firepower" with a lot of big vehicle-mounted guns. "I don't really want to get into protracted assault with Space Marines or Eldar, because I'm sure to lose if I do." And that's they guy who wrote the codex, so I guess I should reevaluate my own dreams of a Necron army with a close combat focus :(
Slothy wrote:So...stupid question perhaps, given that I am thinking of staring necrons should I buy the current battleforce or wait for new destroyers? warriors? swarms?
Scarabs, Warriors, Destroyers... Pretty much staple units to have. I'd say do it.
Sasori wrote:
So, there was no Mention of the Doomsday Ark Being 175, like posted earlier in the thread? I have hope then, if that's the case. And thanks for this. Nice to know it's free to swap Immortal weapons.
I wouldn't get your hopes up to high.
Besides the Warriors being 13 instead of 12 and the regular Destroyers being a teeny bit more all the rest of the point values match precisely with what I've seen.
That tells me that either the 175 mark for the Doomsday Ark is dead-on or else it is only off by a very small margin.
Sasori wrote:
So, there was no Mention of the Doomsday Ark Being 175, like posted earlier in the thread? I have hope then, if that's the case. And thanks for this. Nice to know it's free to swap Immortal weapons.
I wouldn't get your hopes up to high.
Besides the Warriors being 13 instead of 12 and the regular Destroyers being a teeny bit more all the rest of the point values match precisely with what I've seen.
That tells me that either the 175 mark for the Doomsday Ark is dead-on or else it is only off by a very small margin.
Yeah, I was really hoping to field two of these, but 175 seems so expensive. At least with the improvement to QS it makes it a tad better. The other points costs seems fine, and about what I'd expect with the new ruling.
jspyd3rx wrote:Assaulting after deep strike is a planet strike special rule. Doubt it will make it into standard rules. Try it and you will see what I mean. Whole armies could be destroyed by turn three.
Although note that the rumored DS rules make you scatter 3d6" and use the arrow on the HIT side any time you try to DS within 6" (which would also be your charge range, since you may only make an advance move after DS). So maybe that comes down to 2d6" with DoA, but clearly there's still a good chance of scattering to a bad spot. Hence my comment about needing a homer for this maneuver to make much sense.
And yeah, it could be just a Planetstrike thing, given that the rumors also say that the book will include supplemental material. The leaker might have gotten his wired crossed on that. But there also seem to be some controls in place with the DS rule, although clearly it has a lot of implications. Daemons would be scarier than BA with this rule, IMO. Then again, if even 50% of the rumors are true, there's a lot of implications and 6th ed will be a very different game.
This was posted on Warseer forums. Take it as you will:
Spoiler:
The White Dwarf gives us quite a bit of info:
Dynasties seem to be our 'cabals', 'chapters' or what have you. They have a color scheme and a short background. They "rule" parts of the galaxy and consist of multiple Tomb Worlds. An Overlord can apparently rule multiple worlds (as seen in the breakdown of the Sautekh Dynasty, which has Overlords with titles such as "Regent of the Sautekh homeworlds", "Regent of the Sautekh Fringeworlds", but also "Regent of Gheisten".
Some Dynasties are ruled by others...once again, two Dynasties are given (Sekemtar and Arrynmarok) that are ruled by Imotekh from the Sautekh Dynasty.
The Sautekh Dynasty, while currently the most powerful Dynasty, was only the third most powerful Dynasty before the biotransference. Currently ruled by Imotekh, who indeed seems to be 40k's version of Settra.
The Charnovokh Dynasty is mentioned as eaten mostly by Tyranids. This has pushed them into restoring ancient dolmen gates that connect their realms to the wider galaxy. This does put an end to the old speculation about Tyranids avoiding Necrons/Tomb Worlds in general.
The Nihilakh Dynasty gives us a Dynasty that just keeps to themselves and has no intention of conquering the galaxy. They are very defensive of their territory though. Kinda like Wood Elves
The Nekthyst Dynasty are noted as traitors, turncoats and oathbreakers. The "taint of dishonour" still hangs heavy over them, and they mostly operate as mercenaries. Mercenary contracts are the only promise they never seem to break. What this also tells us (along with the teaser-trailer) is that Necrons apparently value treaties, pacts and honor quite a bit, to make such a big deal out of the Nekthyst Dynasty breaking them. In D&D terms, Necrons in general are definitely on the Lawful side of the alignment scale.
The common cause for all Necrons is given as "rebuilding the Necron dynasties and the return of the Necrons to their rightful supremacy." They feel they should be in charge. Once again, pretty Lawful (Evil?) guys.
The Bone Kingdom of Drazak is the Flayed One kingdom located in the north-eastern Ghoul Stars, led by a Flayed One King. They're the "fresh meat" zombies/ghouls, that go on random killing sprees. Needless to say, Flayed Ones aren't very respected by the other Necrons. It's said that it's a C'tan curse, not a normal madness or disease, that plagues them.
The Stasis Docks of Seidon were once in the center of the Necrontyr empire. The "master program" of these Docks broke down, so it sends fleets to random locations every thirty-three weeks. The local Overlord is apparently unaware of this.
Thanatos and the Celestial Orrery. The Celestial Orrery is said to be one of the galaxy's greatest treasures. It has a small light for every star in the galaxy. Snuff out the light, and the star will soon follow.
with all the pts getting posted i want fron 1800 in troops and fast attack to 1233 as of right now i just droped the hq for now beecouse i dont know how it will relate to the new pts. I like the way thing are starting to look and have room to add more to the army with out removeing anything.
Harriticus wrote:This was posted on Warseer forums. Take it as you will:
Spoiler:
The White Dwarf gives us quite a bit of info:
Dynasties seem to be our 'cabals', 'chapters' or what have you. They have a color scheme and a short background. They "rule" parts of the galaxy and consist of multiple Tomb Worlds. An Overlord can apparently rule multiple worlds (as seen in the breakdown of the Sautekh Dynasty, which has Overlords with titles such as "Regent of the Sautekh homeworlds", "Regent of the Sautekh Fringeworlds", but also "Regent of Gheisten".
Some Dynasties are ruled by others...once again, two Dynasties are given (Sekemtar and Arrynmarok) that are ruled by Imotekh from the Sautekh Dynasty.
The Sautekh Dynasty, while currently the most powerful Dynasty, was only the third most powerful Dynasty before the biotransference. Currently ruled by Imotekh, who indeed seems to be 40k's version of Settra.
The Charnovokh Dynasty is mentioned as eaten mostly by Tyranids. This has pushed them into restoring ancient dolmen gates that connect their realms to the wider galaxy. This does put an end to the old speculation about Tyranids avoiding Necrons/Tomb Worlds in general.
The Nihilakh Dynasty gives us a Dynasty that just keeps to themselves and has no intention of conquering the galaxy. They are very defensive of their territory though. Kinda like Wood Elves
The Nekthyst Dynasty are noted as traitors, turncoats and oathbreakers. The "taint of dishonour" still hangs heavy over them, and they mostly operate as mercenaries. Mercenary contracts are the only promise they never seem to break. What this also tells us (along with the teaser-trailer) is that Necrons apparently value treaties, pacts and honor quite a bit, to make such a big deal out of the Nekthyst Dynasty breaking them. In D&D terms, Necrons in general are definitely on the Lawful side of the alignment scale.
The common cause for all Necrons is given as "rebuilding the Necron dynasties and the return of the Necrons to their rightful supremacy." They feel they should be in charge. Once again, pretty Lawful (Evil?) guys.
The Bone Kingdom of Drazak is the Flayed One kingdom located in the north-eastern Ghoul Stars, led by a Flayed One King. They're the "fresh meat" zombies/ghouls, that go on random killing sprees. Needless to say, Flayed Ones aren't very respected by the other Necrons. It's said that it's a C'tan curse, not a normal madness or disease, that plagues them.
The Stasis Docks of Seidon were once in the center of the Necrontyr empire. The "master program" of these Docks broke down, so it sends fleets to random locations every thirty-three weeks. The local Overlord is apparently unaware of this.
Thanatos and the Celestial Orrery. The Celestial Orrery is said to be one of the galaxy's greatest treasures. It has a small light for every star in the galaxy. Snuff out the light, and the star will soon follow.
The Celestial Orrery is said to be one of the galaxy's greatest treasures. It has a small light for every star in the galaxy. Snuff out the light, and the star will soon follow.
So almost all life is at the discretion of the Necrons? They can just snuff out Terras Sun? Talk about Insanity.
Anyone can give some news on what destroyer lords will not be able to take as wargear that lords can.
Not seen a conclusive list yet might be intresting to find out.
Swara wrote:Remember remember the fifth of November
Tesla, doomsday and Gauss.
All will cower, why, overpower?
Can't be worse than Jaws..
Gauss doesn't rhyme with jaws
It does around here, lol.
Yes I am well aware that the "proper" pronunciation is gous, but that doesn't keep everyone in south from calling it Gaws.
It's supposed to be funny! Sorry : (
Harriticus wrote:This was posted on Warseer forums. Take it as you will:
Spoiler:
The White Dwarf gives us quite a bit of info:
The Charnovokh Dynasty is mentioned as eaten mostly by Tyranids. This has pushed them into restoring ancient dolmen gates that connect their realms to the wider galaxy. This does put an end to the old speculation about Tyranids avoiding Necrons/Tomb Worlds in general.
Hmmm... I'm wondering what they ate? Not a whole lot of nutrition there I'm thinking.
The Nekthyst Dynasty are noted as traitors, turncoats and oathbreakers. The "taint of dishonour" still hangs heavy over them, and they mostly operate as mercenaries. Mercenary contracts are the only promise they never seem to break.
I'll just have to pretend this little bit doesn't exist...Necrons reduced to fighting for other races for profit is just a stomach-churning bit of fluff for me.
Harriticus wrote:This was posted on Warseer forums. Take it as you will:
The Charnovokh Dynasty is mentioned as eaten mostly by Tyranids. This has pushed them into restoring ancient dolmen gates that connect their realms to the wider galaxy. This does put an end to the old speculation about Tyranids avoiding Necrons/Tomb Worlds in general.
Sasori wrote:The Celestial Orrery is said to be one of the galaxy's greatest treasures. It has a small light for every star in the galaxy. Snuff out the light, and the star will soon follow.
So almost all life is at the discretion of the Necrons? They can just snuff out Terras Sun? Talk about Insanity.
They can snuff out stars at will, but doing so creates horrific chain reactions. The Necron faction that controls the Orrey (the royal courts of Thanatos) instead sees themselves as the gardners of creation, only pruning when absolutely necessary.
Of course, this attitude doesn't sit well with many Necrons, which means Thanatos is constantly under attack from both aliens and other Necrons.
People always seem to forget that Necrons were Mortal beings once, just because you are in a metal shell now doesn't necessarily mean you lose want and desire for money and power.
Robbietobbie wrote:My girlfriend picked it up for me yesterday so it's available alright
I picked it up yesterday as well. Guess it depends on the country, I'm from the Netherlands just like Robbietobbie.
Speaking of the White Dwarf: I never found anything on the Warscythe rolling 2D6 against armour. It most definitely states that Warriors are 13 points however, separately when discussing the Warrior and in the army lists for the battle report. Some other point values that can be learned from the battle report are:
- Necron Lord @ 45 points
- Necron Cryptek @ 35 points and 55 points (depending on wargear no doubt)
- Lychguard @ 40 points...however, one squad of 5 was +25 points more expensive...could be that the shield option is +5 points.
- Deathmarks @ 19 points...not that bad, actually.
- Flayed Ones @ 13 points (and no mention at all of the "Fearsome Visage" rule or something they used to have)
- Warriors @ 13 points
- Ghost Ark @ 115 points
- Immortals @ 17 points regardless of weapon
- Scarabs @ 15 points per base
- Destroyers @ 40 points
- Heavy Destroyers @ 60 points
Not overpriced as far as Warriors, Flayed Ones, and Immortals are concerned. Scarabs are a bit costly since they can be instantly killed with their T3. No opinion about the rest.
Sasori wrote:The Celestial Orrery is said to be one of the galaxy's greatest treasures. It has a small light for every star in the galaxy. Snuff out the light, and the star will soon follow.
So almost all life is at the discretion of the Necrons? They can just snuff out Terras Sun? Talk about Insanity.
They can snuff out stars at will, but doing so creates horrific chain reactions. The Necron faction that controls the Orrey (the royal courts of Thanatos) instead sees themselves as the gardners of creation, only pruning when absolutely necessary.
Of course, this attitude doesn't sit well with many Necrons, which means Thanatos is constantly under attack from both aliens and other Necrons.
I see, I know it wouldn't sit well with me, if the ultimate weapon in the galaxy was in the hands of a bunch of hippies.
I hope Tombspiders are around 60pts and allow you to increase the number of an existing Scarab swarm....something in me is horribly entertained by the idea of a 10 Scarab unit becoming a 19 scarab unit on the first turn
Robbietobbie wrote:My girlfriend picked it up for me yesterday so it's available alright
I picked it up yesterday as well. Guess it depends on the country, I'm from the Netherlands just like Robbietobbie.
Speaking of the White Dwarf: I never found anything on the Warscythe rolling 2D6 against armour. It most definitely states that Warriors are 13 points however, separately when discussing the Warrior and in the army lists for the battle report. Some other point values that can be learned from the battle report are:
- Necron Lord @ 45 points
- Necron Cryptek @ 35 points and 55 points (depending on wargear no doubt)
- Lychguard @ 40 points...however, one squad of 5 was +25 points more expensive...could be that the shield option is +5 points.
- Deathmarks @ 19 points...not that bad, actually.
- Flayed Ones @ 13 points (and no mention at all of the "Fearsome Visage" rule or something they used to have)
- Warriors @ 13 points
- Ghost Ark @ 115 points
- Immortals @ 17 points regardless of weapon
- Scarabs @ 15 points per base
- Destroyers @ 40 points
- Heavy Destroyers @ 60 points
Not overpriced as far as Warriors, Flayed Ones, and Immortals are concerned. Scarabs are a bit costly since they can be instantly killed with their T3. No opinion about the rest.
Not really. The scarabs can get WWB, and they have entropic strike.
Kanluwen wrote:Or it could simply be that they're considered "mercenaries" as they'll fight for the other various Necron Dynasties.
That angle I can work with.
Zachilles wrote:People always seem to forget that Necrons were Mortal beings once, just because you are in a metal shell now doesn't necessarily mean you lose want and desire for money and power.
I can get that to some degree, but I see them seeing themselves as being above relating with other races at that level. They simply take what they want, or if it proves too difficult, they bide their time time and increase their power untill they can. Obviously, that's not the direction the fluff is taking now, but that's how I've always envisioned them.
The Nekthyst Dynasty are noted as traitors, turncoats and oathbreakers. The "taint of dishonour" still hangs heavy over them, and they mostly operate as mercenaries. Mercenary contracts are the only promise they never seem to break.
I'll just have to pretend this little bit doesn't exist...Necrons reduced to fighting for other races for profit is just a stomach-churning bit of fluff for me.
WARD!!!!
Yeah that would be a ward moment there and then for necrons...
Hulksmash wrote:I hope Tombspiders are around 60pts and allow you to increase the number of an existing Scarab swarm....something in me is horribly entertained by the idea of a 10 Scarab unit becoming a 19 scarab unit on the first turn
It specifically says you can add more scarabs than the unit starts with and 60 points is too high for their base cost, although taking any upgrade will get you there.
Zachilles wrote:People always seem to forget that Necrons were Mortal beings once, just because you are in a metal shell now doesn't necessarily mean you lose want and desire for money and power.
I can get that to some degree, but I see them seeing themselves as being above relating with other races at that level. They simply take what they want, or if it proves too difficult, they bide their time time and increase their power untill they can. Obviously, that's not the direction the fluff is taking now, but that's how I've always envisioned them.
Alternatively, it could be a situation like Orkish mercenaries.
"Sure we'll fight for you!" and when the fighting's done..."But we never said we wouldn't fight you when the fightin's done!".
Harriticus wrote:This was posted on Warseer forums. Take it as you will:
The Charnovokh Dynasty is mentioned as eaten mostly by Tyranids. This has pushed them into restoring ancient dolmen gates that connect their realms to the wider galaxy. This does put an end to the old speculation about Tyranids avoiding Necrons/Tomb Worlds in general.
How the hell is that possible?
When a Hive Fleet pays a visit to the neighborhood, a lot more than biomass gets consumed. The atmosphere is sucked away, any water is consumed, the soil is leeched for nutrients and valuable compounds and elements. Tectonic and volcanic activity increases dramatically due to the gravitic distortions inherent in their travel, plus whatever they do to the planet itself. From artwork, it looks like many planets are on the verge of breaking up by the time the 'nids are done with them.
Hell, a Hive Fleet's presence would probably kill numbers of Necrons in their sleep merely due to tectonic activity!
I wa reading over rumored chanegs to 6th edition, and the changees to deep strike seem to me to more or less overcome the loss of immunity to deep strike errors. Any deep strike that occurs greater than 18" from the nearest enemy model does not deviate and all, 6" for over 12", and so on. Without immunity to melta, I can't imagine wanting to get a lot closer. Just a thought.
Zachilles wrote:People always seem to forget that Necrons were Mortal beings once, just because you are in a metal shell now doesn't necessarily mean you lose want and desire for money and power.
I can get that to some degree, but I see them seeing themselves as being above relating with other races at that level. They simply take what they want, or if it proves too difficult, they bide their time time and increase their power untill they can. Obviously, that's not the direction the fluff is taking now, but that's how I've always envisioned them.
Alternatively, it could be a situation like Orkish mercenaries.
"Sure we'll fight for you!" and when the fighting's done..."But we never said we wouldn't fight you when the fightin's done!".
Meh, that again lends itself to the thought that other races are worth of such trickery. I think the Fall of Damnos quote in my sig quite nicely sums up how I like my crons.
yakface wrote:They can snuff out stars at will, but doing so creates horrific chain reactions. The Necron faction that controls the Orrey (the royal courts of Thanatos) instead sees themselves as the gardners of creation, only pruning when absolutely necessary.
Of course, this attitude doesn't sit well with many Necrons, which means Thanatos is constantly under attack from both aliens and other Necrons.
This more than makes up for the lack of star-eating gods running around. I am happy with this development! I was afraid the Necrons were going to become just another race with no real hope of stopping either the Tyranid or Chaos, but it looks as though they have the galactic equivalent of the ace in the hole. Still on top, baby!
Hulksmash wrote:I hope Tombspiders are around 60pts and allow you to increase the number of an existing Scarab swarm....something in me is horribly entertained by the idea of a 10 Scarab unit becoming a 19 scarab unit on the first turn
It specifically says you can add more scarabs than the unit starts with and 60 points is too high for their base cost, although taking any upgrade will get you there.
Genius!!!! I think that would just be fun sometime. Take Imotehk to ensure nightfight every game and shove 28 swarms down somebodies throat
Harriticus wrote:This was posted on Warseer forums. Take it as you will:
The Charnovokh Dynasty is mentioned as eaten mostly by Tyranids. This has pushed them into restoring ancient dolmen gates that connect their realms to the wider galaxy. This does put an end to the old speculation about Tyranids avoiding Necrons/Tomb Worlds in general.
How the hell is that possible?
When a Hive Fleet pays a visit to the neighborhood, a lot more than biomass gets consumed. The atmosphere is sucked away, any water is consumed, the soil is leeched for nutrients and valuable compounds and elements. Tectonic and volcanic activity increases dramatically due to the gravitic distortions inherent in their travel, plus whatever they do to the planet itself. From artwork, it looks like many planets are on the verge of breaking up by the time the 'nids are done with them.
Hell, a Hive Fleet's presence would probably kill numbers of Necrons in their sleep merely due to tectonic activity!
Harriticus wrote:This was posted on Warseer forums. Take it as you will:
The Charnovokh Dynasty is mentioned as eaten mostly by Tyranids. This has pushed them into restoring ancient dolmen gates that connect their realms to the wider galaxy. This does put an end to the old speculation about Tyranids avoiding Necrons/Tomb Worlds in general.
How the hell is that possible?
When a Hive Fleet pays a visit to the neighborhood, a lot more than biomass gets consumed. The atmosphere is sucked away, any water is consumed, the soil is leeched for nutrients and valuable compounds and elements. Tectonic and volcanic activity increases dramatically due to the gravitic distortions inherent in their travel, plus whatever they do to the planet itself. From artwork, it looks like many planets are on the verge of breaking up by the time the 'nids are done with them.
Hell, a Hive Fleet's presence would probably kill numbers of Necrons in their sleep merely due to tectonic activity!
Yeah, but it says eaten and I still wonder wtf?
Even tyranids need a steady supply of iron in their diet, mate.
Zachilles wrote:People always seem to forget that Necrons were Mortal beings once, just because you are in a metal shell now doesn't necessarily mean you lose want and desire for money and power.
I can get that to some degree, but I see them seeing themselves as being above relating with other races at that level. They simply take what they want, or if it proves too difficult, they bide their time time and increase their power untill they can. Obviously, that's not the direction the fluff is taking now, but that's how I've always envisioned them.
Alternatively, it could be a situation like Orkish mercenaries.
"Sure we'll fight for you!" and when the fighting's done..."But we never said we wouldn't fight you when the fightin's done!".
Meh, that again lends itself to the thought that other races are worth of such trickery. I think the Fall of Damnos quote in my sig quite nicely sums up how I like my crons.
I definitely see where you are coming from but to be fair these mercenaries seem to be despised by all other necrons for the exact same reason you despise them, so I guess that kinda fits right?
The Nekthyst Dynasty are noted as traitors, turncoats and oathbreakers. The "taint of dishonour" still hangs heavy over them, and they mostly operate as mercenaries. Mercenary contracts are the only promise they never seem to break. What this also tells us (along with the teaser-trailer) is that Necrons apparently value treaties, pacts and honor quite a bit, to make such a big deal out of the Nekthyst Dynasty breaking them. In D&D terms, Necrons in general are definitely on the Lawful side of the alignment scale.
Come on now... The Kroot/Tau of the Necrons? Really? I thought fist-bumping Dante was bad enough. I really think someone is going to write 'Necron Character X has picnic with High Marshal Helbrecht.'
I'm not trying to sound ultra negative, but there's just got to be a line somewhere that the some writers will not tred.
I have a question for Yak or anyone with the newest WD: Is there any information on the Pariahs and what happened to them? Or are they simply never mentioned in the hopes that people just forget they existed? I always thought the idea of the Deceiver creating them from humans to combat the Warp was an awesome piece of fluff. Thanks!
Yak - is there a range limit to how far away a swarm needs to be from Tomb Spyders in order to add more Scarabs to it? I.E. is it adding more to ANY swarm on the table, or is it like 6" away?
MVBrandt wrote:Yak - is there a range limit to how far away a swarm needs to be from Tomb Spyders in order to add more Scarabs to it? I.E. is it adding more to ANY swarm on the table, or is it like 6" away?
I feel the same way, the Pariahs were awesome and really encapsulated the relentless feeling and almost horror of becoming a Necron.
They appear to have been changed almost to make them more human, and that sucks for me.
I always saw them as like the Borg from Star Trek, and now they are more like hippies and traders.
Personally my fluff or idea of them won't change, I'll probably play the special characters but will just make them more soulless in nature or won't "call" them by name/background.
Bad idea from GW in my opinion, but... when has that stopped them? They have been doing this for years...
Hulk I am loving the Scarabs ... I already had a ton of swarms b/c I always played with a ton in the old dex (which was my first army) ... I played last night with a demo game using what we knew, using:
Imothek, 20 scarabs (and I paid too much for them by far), 3 spyders to protect Imothek, 6 wraiths, and 6x7 carbine immortals ... was very, very, very good stuff ... and if you can spawn scarabs all the way across the table to buff up a combat or whatever ... man, color me sold.
I also found ... due to the high cost of some of their "ranged" anti-tank (i.e. arks, deathrayscythes, etc), you're going to see a TON of anti-tank lifting by Wraiths and scarabs, buoyed by tesla carbine fire against weakened tank chassis after the scarabs hit. Scarabs were amazing vs. Walkers, less so alone vs. transports (b/c they could just back away after the initial round, since the initial attacks don't do any damage, just reduce the armor).
Too much unknown still ... that's my big Q at the moment - can spyders regen across table. We played they could NOT increase size over 10 also, so that's kind of already badass.
I'm pretty much already sold on the book as it doesn't look like the points are going to keep me from playing stuff I enjoy. We'll just have to see how it shakes out but I'm super pumped for November 5th! Got my codex and some boxes of immortals on order already!!!
MVBrandt wrote:Yak - is there a range limit to how far away a swarm needs to be from Tomb Spyders in order to add more Scarabs to it? I.E. is it adding more to ANY swarm on the table, or is it like 6" away?
Don't rain on my parade!!!!!!
Sorry, its only swarms within 6", but you should be able to pull that off on the first turn for sure, especially as its done at the start of the Necron movement phase now.
Zachilles wrote:I definitely see where you are coming from but to be fair these mercenaries seem to be despised by all other necrons for the exact same reason you despise them, so I guess that kinda fits right?
Necron Overlord 1) Heed my words for I am the Herald and we are the footsteps of doom. Interlopers, do we name-
Necron Overlord 2) Hey, you interested in some Teleport packs? Maybe some used Gauss Flayers?
Necron Overlord 1) -you. Defilers of our sacred earth. We have awoken to your primative species-
Necron Overlord 2) How about a few Destroyers to fill your ranks? Now with the ability to Deep Strike!
Necron Overlord 1) -and will not tolerate your presence. Ours...is...the...
Necron Overlord 2) Look I'll get you a great deal on a Particle Whip.
Necron Overlord 1) Hey, do ya mind? I'm tryin' to sow the seeds of terror and fill their hearts with woe here!
Necron Overlord 2) I'm jus' tryin' to get my hustle on, yo! *jumps on his gold trimed monolith with 22's and spinners and drives away*
Necron Overlord 1) Sellout punk-a** b****...I'm the real OG, yo!
MVBrandt wrote:Yak - is there a range limit to how far away a swarm needs to be from Tomb Spyders in order to add more Scarabs to it? I.E. is it adding more to ANY swarm on the table, or is it like 6" away?
Don't rain on my parade!!!!!!
Sorry, its only swarms within 6", but you should be able to pull that off on the first turn for sure, especially as its done at the start of the Necron movement phase now.
I could see having small squads of swarms next to a group of spyders and each turn send out a group of them after they receive more.. Might not work, but might be fun.
I'm pretty much already sold on the book as it doesn't look like the points are going to keep me from playing stuff I enjoy. We'll just have to see how it shakes out but I'm super pumped for November 5th! Got my codex and some boxes of immortals on order already!!!
While Necrons have never really piqued my interest gameplay wise, I will be buried in my LGWS's store copy reading it from cover to cover. Those scarabs are going to be ridiuclous against Mech lists, and all those transports/heavy vehicles will add some interesting flavor.
MVBrandt wrote:Yak - is there a range limit to how far away a swarm needs to be from Tomb Spyders in order to add more Scarabs to it? I.E. is it adding more to ANY swarm on the table, or is it like 6" away?
Don't rain on my parade!!!!!!
Sorry, its only swarms within 6", but you should be able to pull that off on the first turn for sure, especially as its done at the start of the Necron movement phase now.
Still not so bad. I'm a master at keeping my Genestealers within Catalyst range. This won't be that much different. Figure I can still get 2 turns out of them before they move to far. First turn start around 4" behind them and add 9. Move both up 6" and run both. Then turn 2 should have the swarm still close enough so 9 more and then it's off to assualt some tanks
Does bring up some interesting questions though. Do the additional swarms have to be placed within 6" or can we put them anywhere in the unit within coherency? Nothing like adding 4-5 more inches of movement on turn 2
I personally want to be that Necron Overlord who's just content with sitting in his Empire eating his Bon-Bons and watching reruns of Sex in the City On Demand...
The Nihilakh Dynasty gives us a Dynasty that just keeps to themselves and has no intention of conquering the galaxy. They are very defensive of their territory though. Kinda like Wood Elves.
Necron Overlord: 'Yea... I was thinking about invading the little Imperial planet next door, but after looking at the drapes and this gaudy rug, I think its better to stay here and do some home Decor from Martha Stewards Frozen in Time Collection...'
The more I'm seeing the more I can't help but like them and there hasn't been a single reveal that I'm like "OMGWTF-BROKEN" over. I can see the death of the Pariahs, though, as now Spyders take the Anti-Psyker role and Lychguard take the Elite CC slot, that and with the Overlords waking the idea of a mixed-breed spawned by a shard of the Deceiver would be snuffed out PDQ...
I personally want to be that Necron Overlord who's just content with sitting in his Empire eating his Bon-Bons and watching reruns of Sex in the City On Demand...
The Nihilakh Dynasty gives us a Dynasty that just keeps to themselves and has no intention of conquering the galaxy. They are very defensive of their territory though. Kinda like Wood Elves.
Necron Overlord: 'Yea... I was thinking about invading the little Imperial planet next door, but after looking at the drapes and this gaudy rug, I think its better to stay here and do some home Decor from Martha Stewards Frozen in Time Collection...'
I rather see a bunch of necrons with their stasis chambers remodeled into cubicles all playing WoW with mountains of empty Mountain Dew: Code Red cans lying around. At least now we know why they've been dormant for so long.
Farquestor wrote:The more I'm seeing the more I can't help but like them and there hasn't been a single reveal that I'm like "OMGWTF-BROKEN" over. I can see the death of the Pariahs, though, as now Spyders take the Anti-Psyker role and Lychguard take the Elite CC slot, that and with the Overlords waking the idea of a mixed-breed spawned by a shard of the Deceiver would be snuffed out PDQ...
Yeah, while I still hate a lot of the fluff changes, the more details of the actual army that come out, the more they are starting to grow on me. It's shaping up to be a fairly balanced force, with a lot of tactical options. Now we'll see if that survives the first FAQ or 6th ed...but as it stands right now, I'm pretty hopefull.
MVBrandt wrote:Scarabs were amazing vs. Walkers, less so alone vs. transports (b/c they could just back away after the initial round, since the initial attacks don't do any damage, just reduce the armor).
MVB, it just means you're not using enough Scarabs.
Seriously, though, let's say you're running 10 Scarab units. And since they're beasts, on average, you've got a threat range of 21.5 inches. As long as you can move them forward into cover round 1, you should get a charge off on round 2. On the charge, you should be getting 40 attacks, right? And even if the vehicle moved, you're talking about a 4+ to hit, so that's roughly 20 hits. 4+ to degrade armor should typically net you -10 to their AV. And since you're attacking rear armor in CC, that should finish off most vehicles. If you roll poorly, you'll get shot up the next turn, but will still be able to get another charge off on your next turn. (Unless your opponent has the sense to lock those bad boys up in CC with an infantry unit.)
Maelstrom808 wrote:I rather see a bunch of necrons with their stasis chambers remodeled into cubicles all playing WoW with mountains of empty Mountain Dew: Code Red cans lying around. At least now we know why they've been dormant for so long.
So they are waking up now that they know how lame the next expansion is?
Maelstrom808 wrote:I rather see a bunch of necrons with their stasis chambers remodeled into cubicles all playing WoW with mountains of empty Mountain Dew: Code Red cans lying around. At least now we know why they've been dormant for so long.
So they are waking up now that they know how lame the next expansion is?
Fitting.
Precisely...and where the arrogance comes from.
"Insolant humans! You think you can stand before the might of the necrontyr? Don't you realize we have 12 server first clears?!?
Hulksmash wrote:
Still not so bad. I'm a master at keeping my Genestealers within Catalyst range. This won't be that much different. Figure I can still get 2 turns out of them before they move to far. First turn start around 4" behind them and add 9. Move both up 6" and run both. Then turn 2 should have the swarm still close enough so 9 more and then it's off to assualt some tanks
Does bring up some interesting questions though. Do the additional swarms have to be placed within 6" or can we put them anywhere in the unit within coherency? Nothing like adding 4-5 more inches of movement on turn 2
The way it's written here is just that you add a base to the swarm, with no restrictions given where it can be placed.
Sasori wrote:Looks like a Squad of Tomb Spyders may be compulsory now, with Scarabs. Especially if you can get 3 for cheaper than a Doomsday Ark.
Since they come up to three per slot, can all three enhance diff rent swarms, or must the single squad enhance squad?
The rule is written per Spyder, so there's no reason they couldn't all enhance different swarms that we're within 6".
Maelstrom808 wrote:I rather see a bunch of necrons with their stasis chambers remodeled into cubicles all playing WoW with mountains of empty Mountain Dew: Code Red cans lying around. At least now we know why they've been dormant for so long.
So they are waking up now that they know how lame the next expansion is?
Fitting.
Precisely...and where the arrogance comes from.
"Insolant humans! You think you can stand before the might of the necrontyr? Don't you realize we have 12 server first clears?!?
This is reminding me of AT-43 for some reason now.
Hulk I am loving the Scarabs ... I already had a ton of swarms b/c I always played with a ton in the old dex (which was my first army) ... I played last night with a demo game using what we knew, using:
Imothek, 20 scarabs (and I paid too much for them by far), 3 spyders to protect Imothek, 6 wraiths, and 6x7 carbine immortals ... was very, very, very good stuff ... and if you can spawn scarabs all the way across the table to buff up a combat or whatever ... man, color me sold.
I also found ... due to the high cost of some of their "ranged" anti-tank (i.e. arks, deathrayscythes, etc), you're going to see a TON of anti-tank lifting by Wraiths and scarabs, buoyed by tesla carbine fire against weakened tank chassis after the scarabs hit. Scarabs were amazing vs. Walkers, less so alone vs. transports (b/c they could just back away after the initial round, since the initial attacks don't do any damage, just reduce the armor).
Too much unknown still ... that's my big Q at the moment - can spyders regen across table. We played they could NOT increase size over 10 also, so that's kind of already badass.
I'm considering a pretty similar build of:
Imoteck
4 Lance Crypteks- go with troop units
2 10 man Warriors
2 10 man Immortals
30 Scarabs
10 Pratorians
4 Spiders
I feel like it will be effective and fun based on the rumors.
So besides that one Tomb World that enslaved its Necrons minds or whatever. Are there any Necrons who exist just to exterminate like they used to? It seems before the IoM regarded Necrons like they did the Tyranids: a life cleansing threat. Now it seems like they have to approach them as if they were Eldar, just grumpier.
The fact that they can be reasoned with changes the whole "we're coming to wipe out all life and nothing short of lotsa dakka will stop us". Now some diplomacy will work? And by diplomacy I mean become their slaves for life.
asimo77 wrote:So besides that one Tomb World that enslaved its Necrons minds or whatever. Are there any Necrons who exist just to exterminate like they used to? It seems before the IoM regarded Necrons like they did the Tyranids: a life cleansing threat. Now it seems like they have to approach them as if they were Eldar, just grumpier.
The fact that they can be reasoned with changes the whole "we're coming to wipe out all life and nothing short of lotsa dakka will stop us". Now some diplomacy will work? And by diplomacy I mean become their slaves for life.
Any necrons who have the Destroyer plague thing are like the old Necrons. If you read Fall of Damnos, it gives you a good idea of the different types of 'new' necrons.
asimo77 wrote:Now some diplomacy will work? And by diplomacy I mean become their slaves for life.
Which - per usual - the IoM will not tolerate, which of course as the Overlords have established will result in their cleansing.
The Necron 'cleansing of all life' is very close to the Tau's Manifest Destiny they call the Greater Good, only, well... The Necrons could build a house with all the craps they don't give about what's Good for everyone...
Balor wrote:Well if the shield is only gone on a pen that really does change stuff besides silly lance weapons. Monos with AV 16 is crazy that means only weapons that can roll more then one D6 to pen or lance weapons can kill it! .... Besides ED/El grenades. Meltas must roll a 2D6 of 9 or more. Cheater Knights hammers can't pen a monolith srt10 + D6. It also makes the Doomsday Barge worth 175, you may even get three rounds of shooting from it.
I don't think monoliths get Sheilds...but if they did hilarity will ensue.
Bah! I say that Monoliths do get quantum shielding. So there.
Of course, the maximum allowed AV is 14 anyway........
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jspyd3rx wrote:Assaulting after deep strike is a planet strike special rule. Doubt it will make it into standard rules. Try it and you will see what I mean. Whole armies could be destroyed by turn three.
Heh, would I rewrite my Black Templar Deep Strike list. Please, please, please let me slam into people the same turn I drop.
I wiped out a tau player who jumped his warriors out of his transports on the opposite side and made a wall gunline with my deepstriking templars. Dropped behind his line rapid fired into him consolidated into melee as he returned fire on his turn.
Oh how my templars miss consolidating into combat. Now I just play with 5 units of tank hunting termies.
IcedAnimals wrote:I wiped out a tau player who jumped his warriors out of his transports on the opposite side and made a wall gunline with my deepstriking templars. Dropped behind his line rapid fired into him consolidated into melee as he returned fire on his turn.
Oh how my templars miss consolidating into combat. Now I just play with 5 units of tank hunting termies.
Heh, that is my solution for the Templars as deep strike assault specialists, simply give us back Righteous Zeal instead of the current Righteous Mild Enthusiasm. Take a casualty, make your morale, you are moving d6", even if it is out of cover. Oh, if you get into B2B with an enemy model, then you count as having charged in their assault phase. So, a potentially real nasty trick balanced by a potentially real nasty negative. Oh this could also help out setting up a charge on a Templar unit if we assume the Enemy CC unit is closest: 1) Enemy CC unit cannot get within 6", 2) Enemy unit shoots Templar unit to cause casualty, 3) Templar unit makes RZ roll and is forced to move d6" towards Enemy CC unit, 4) Templars may now be in range of Enemy CC unit so Enemy CC can charge them.
First thing people will say: WAAAHHH, that is OP, RZ move into combat! They don't have the brains to look at the exploitation possibilities.
asimo77 wrote:So besides that one Tomb World that enslaved its Necrons minds or whatever. Are there any Necrons who exist just to exterminate like they used to? It seems before the IoM regarded Necrons like they did the Tyranids: a life cleansing threat. Now it seems like they have to approach them as if they were Eldar, just grumpier.
The fact that they can be reasoned with changes the whole "we're coming to wipe out all life and nothing short of lotsa dakka will stop us". Now some diplomacy will work? And by diplomacy I mean become their slaves for life.
Necrons are just as arrogant as Eldar, but don't really have reason to compromise because they aren't dying...they're just waking up. So I don't think the IoM will end up approaching them the same as the Eldar, as open conflict between the IoM and the Necrons will be a lot more common.
That having said, the Necrons definitely aren't a big monolithic evil anymore.
Am I the only one who is highly disappointed that the C'tan are just being redistributed via Failcast? I think GW missed a perfectly good opportunity to develop a unique MC multi-part plastic kit for the Necrons. :/
radarbabyeater wrote:Am I the only one who is highly disappointed that the C'tan are just being redistributed via Failcast? I think GW missed a perfectly good opportunity to develop a unique MC multi-part plastic kit for the Necrons. :/
Are they going to Finecast? A multi-part kit WOULD be amazing.
radarbabyeater wrote:Am I the only one who is highly disappointed that the C'tan are just being redistributed via Failcast? I think GW missed a perfectly good opportunity to develop a unique MC multi-part plastic kit for the Necrons. :/
Can someone help maybe explain what Tomb Blades are, and why they exist? It seems Destroyers already fill this anti infanty, light armor, roll nicely..
edit, re-read updated summary and found them... but they still seem a moot choice.
mousespook wrote:Can someone help maybe explain what Tomb Blades are, and why they exist? It seems Destroyers already fill this anti infanty, light armor, roll nicely...
To update my post, and gain some more insight later in the discussion, what would you guys advise as far as tweaking my necron order? I keep hearing a lot about using wraiths...
Have:
Necron Lord with Rez. Orb.
38 Necron Warriors
3 Necron Destroyers
7 Scarab Swarms
5 Immortals
Nightbringer C'tan
Can someone help maybe explain what Tomb Blades are, and why they exist? It seems Destroyers already fill this anti infanty, light armor, roll nicely..
I kind of wonder that myself. I suppose they came up with a cool concept/sculpt of a speedier, lighter necron unit and decided to retconn the destroyers into slower/tougher/killier unit that moves as jump infantry. Opening up a role for this new jetbike unit. Also 6ed could shed more light onto why they went in this direction.
Tomb blades appear to not be shooty.
Guns standard and gun upgrade, no cc option mentioned and BS upgrade -- sounds shooty to me. Also stealth upgrade -- on a jetbike. 2+ cover save when turboboosting? Interesting.
mondo80 wrote:What does the night scythe look like?
A Nightscythe looks like a small Necron Tomb Ship from BFG, with two cannons under it's wings. So basically like a Goa'ould Deathglider with a stronger curving.
Hello Dakka =) since this is the most frequently visited thread right now, and I have a 14 hrs workshift behind me and I am not in the mood to be effed with right now...
Someone over at WarSeer claimed there were any leaked Demiurg Sprue pictures here with you guys? And we are all searching our shiny metal behinds off, but noone came up with anything. IF someone happens to find it - DON'T PANIC! First: Save the picture to your Personal Computer, and then link it to is.
The Command Barge enables the Lord to attack a unit it flew over, even if it moved flat-out. The lord may deal 3 strikes, which hit on 4+ (3+ if the vehicle moed less 12" or less). Each Wound roll of 6 may be allocated by the Necron Player. All aditional effects of the Lords weapon DO apply. Vehicles are always hit in the rear.
Trazyn the Infinite (or so I gather from a quick look through a couple rumor pages) is the one with the ability to hit all like models in a unit that he killed in CC. I seem to remember this being a function of some weapon he was carrying, but that was from a rumor I read a few days ago.
So, if Trazyn gets in a command barge, and flies over a unit of 30 Boyz, does he get to potentially kill all the boys in the unit?
Overall I'm very impressed, i like most of the stuff i see here.
But again we come to the flayed ones... hmmmm.... well i think i have a way to make them work! I'll just have to paint them to be more gruesome! With blood dripping and flowing all over them, then have it pooling on the base.
Swara wrote:Remember remember the fifth of November
Tesla, doomsday and Gauss.
All will cower, why, overpower?
Can't be worse than Jaws..
Gauss doesn't rhyme with jaws
It does around here, lol.
Yes I am well aware that the "proper" pronunciation is gous, but that doesn't keep everyone in south from calling it Gaws.
It's supposed to be funny! Sorry : (
Oh, I laughed. I just wished it rhymed properly is all.
One quick note to the attempt at "Gaws" smarminess. It has a regional pronunciation. Just like apricot is pronounced two ways in the U.S. as well as countless words.
You aren't wrong you say "Gaws". Thank you Linguistics 500 level course
It is, but it can still be bastardized and pronounced any number of ways. Simply due to the way that we generally put emphasis on certain syllables or leave silent others
dancingcricket wrote:The Command Barge enables the Lord to attack a unit it flew over, even if it moved flat-out. The lord may deal 3 strikes, which hit on 4+ (3+ if the vehicle moed less 12" or less). Each Wound roll of 6 may be allocated by the Necron Player. All aditional effects of the Lords weapon DO apply. Vehicles are always hit in the rear.
Trazyn the Infinite (or so I gather from a quick look through a couple rumor pages) is the one with the ability to hit all like models in a unit that he killed in CC. I seem to remember this being a function of some weapon he was carrying, but that was from a rumor I read a few days ago.
So, if Trazyn gets in a command barge, and flies over a unit of 30 Boyz, does he get to potentially kill all the boys in the unit?
No,
Because sweep attacks are not close combat attacks, they are just special sweep attacks and plus he's not locked in combat with the enemy unit which is required for the power to work.
Azure wrote:It is, but it can still be bastardized and pronounced any number of ways. Simply due to the way that we generally put emphasis on certain syllables or leave silent others
No, you can't correctly pronounce it any other way because it is a proper noun. "Tom" is never "tome", and the US President is not "Obayma".
But the poem still works, because it utilizes an eye rhyme. Like William Blake trying to rhyme "eye" with "symmetry", for example.
Now, back to rumours! Is there confirmation about named characters riding the Command Barge like it's a Goblin Glider? I can't find anything saying either way, but I thought I saw something about this a while back.
Edit: oh, I see Yakface just crushed my dreams of a Trazyn Drive-By.
azazel the cat wrote:This is was off topic and I apologize in advance.
Azure wrote:It is, but it can still be bastardized and pronounced any number of ways. Simply due to the way that we generally put emphasis on certain syllables or leave silent others
No, you can't correctly pronounce it any other way because it is a proper noun. "Tom" is never "tome", and the US President is not "Obayma".
But the poem still works, because it utilizes an eye rhyme. Like William Blake trying to rhyme "eye" with "symmetry", for example.
Now, back to rumours! Is there confirmation about named characters riding the Command Barge like it's a Goblin Glider? I can't find anything saying either way, but I thought I saw something about this a while back.
Edit: oh, I see Yakface just crushed my dreams of a Trazyn Drive-By.
Sorry to have to disagree with you, but you are 100% false. There is no such thing as "that's a proper noun" if I word changes into other forms of speech it is no longer a proper noun and no longer has one way of being said. Here is a funny video to play on this concept: http://www.npr.org/blogs/krulwich/2011/09/28/140467781/wanna-live-forever-become-a-noun
azazel the cat wrote:This is was off topic and I apologize in advance.
Azure wrote:It is, but it can still be bastardized and pronounced any number of ways. Simply due to the way that we generally put emphasis on certain syllables or leave silent others
No, you can't correctly pronounce it any other way because it is a proper noun. "Tom" is never "tome", and the US President is not "Obayma".
But the poem still works, because it utilizes an eye rhyme. Like William Blake trying to rhyme "eye" with "symmetry", for example.
Now, back to rumours! Is there confirmation about named characters riding the Command Barge like it's a Goblin Glider? I can't find anything saying either way, but I thought I saw something about this a while back.
Edit: oh, I see Yakface just crushed my dreams of a Trazyn Drive-By.
Sorry to have to disagree with you, but you are 100% false. There is no such thing as "that's a proper noun" if I word changes into other forms of speech it is no longer a proper noun and no longer has one way of being said. Here is a funny video to play on this concept: http://www.npr.org/blogs/krulwich/2011/09/28/140467781/wanna-live-forever-become-a-noun
Again, Linguistics 500 FTW
That video has absolutely nothing to do with it. Besides that, there is only ever one proper pronunciation for any given word, regardless of what popular linguistics bastardizes it as. I don't know where you get the idea that if multiple things are referred to as 'Gauss' it goes from a proper noun to a common noun, but you are incorrect on that subject. Gauss is, has been, and continues to be a proper noun, with only one proper method of pronunciation.
That being said, given that its the 41st millenium and, to my knowledge, Gauss weapons have absolutely nothing to do with any real world definition of that word, I think its safe to say that in this case we can pronounce it pretty much however the hell we want to pronounce it, as its quite clearly not a reference to Carl Friedrich Gauss.
azazel the cat wrote:This is was off topic and I apologize in advance.
Azure wrote:It is, but it can still be bastardized and pronounced any number of ways. Simply due to the way that we generally put emphasis on certain syllables or leave silent others
No, you can't correctly pronounce it any other way because it is a proper noun. "Tom" is never "tome", and the US President is not "Obayma".
But the poem still works, because it utilizes an eye rhyme. Like William Blake trying to rhyme "eye" with "symmetry", for example.
Now, back to rumours! Is there confirmation about named characters riding the Command Barge like it's a Goblin Glider? I can't find anything saying either way, but I thought I saw something about this a while back.
Edit: oh, I see Yakface just crushed my dreams of a Trazyn Drive-By.
Sorry to have to disagree with you, but you are 100% false. There is no such thing as "that's a proper noun" if I word changes into other forms of speech it is no longer a proper noun and no longer has one way of being said. Here is a funny video to play on this concept: http://www.npr.org/blogs/krulwich/2011/09/28/140467781/wanna-live-forever-become-a-noun
Again, Linguistics 500 FTW
That video has absolutely nothing to do with it. Besides that, there is only ever one proper pronunciation for any given word, regardless of what popular linguistics bastardizes it as. I don't know where you get the idea that if multiple things are referred to as 'Gauss' it goes from a proper noun to a common noun, but you are incorrect on that subject. Gauss is, has been, and continues to be a proper noun, with only one proper method of pronunciation.
That being said, given that its the 41st millenium and, to my knowledge, Gauss weapons have absolutely nothing to do with any real world definition of that word, I think its safe to say that in this case we can pronounce it pretty much however the hell we want to pronounce it, as its quite clearly not a reference to Carl Friedrich Gauss.
It is. Gauss weapons use a strong magnetic field to strip away molecules. Carl Friedrich Gauss did research into magnetic fields, hence the unit of magnetic flux density "Gauss".
Anyway, can we get back to the rumours? Any more information, like on the Stalker?
Robbietobbie wrote:My girlfriend picked it up for me yesterday so it's available alright
I picked it up yesterday as well. Guess it depends on the country, I'm from the Netherlands just like Robbietobbie.
Speaking of the White Dwarf: I never found anything on the Warscythe rolling 2D6 against armour. It most definitely states that Warriors are 13 points however, separately when discussing the Warrior and in the army lists for the battle report. Some other point values that can be learned from the battle report are:
- Necron Lord @ 45 points
- Necron Cryptek @ 35 points and 55 points (depending on wargear no doubt)
- Lychguard @ 40 points...however, one squad of 5 was +25 points more expensive...could be that the shield option is +5 points.
- Deathmarks @ 19 points...not that bad, actually.
- Flayed Ones @ 13 points (and no mention at all of the "Fearsome Visage" rule or something they used to have)
- Warriors @ 13 points
- Ghost Ark @ 115 points
- Immortals @ 17 points regardless of weapon
- Scarabs @ 15 points per base
- Destroyers @ 40 points
- Heavy Destroyers @ 60 points
I am debating whether to go with lots of warriors/two monoliths or less warriors/ghost arks.
Ghost Arks at 115 pts each is a tough call though.
I just realized the Entropic rules (that Scarabs have) are totally lacking when it comes to vehicle squadrons. Because hits on squadrons aren't distributed to individual vehicles until after armor penetration is rolled.
So do all vehicles in the squadron count as being hit by all the attacks or do you just count as evenly spreading the hits across each vehicle? And if so, what about an odd number of hits compared to vehicles in the squadron, who would get to pick where the extra hit would go?
I hope it's covered in the final codex, but I'm doubting it.
I'd just assume that the -1 armor effect is spread the same way wounds are amongst an infantry squad.
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Nightsbane wrote:Sorry to have to disagree with you, but you are 100% false. There is no such thing as "that's a proper noun" if I word changes into other forms of speech it is no longer a proper noun and no longer has one way of being said. Here is a funny video to play on this concept: http://www.npr.org/blogs/krulwich/2011/09/28/140467781/wanna-live-forever-become-a-noun
Again, Linguistics 500 FTW
Aw, how cute. The linguistics version of an oh-so-rebellious poli-sci student wearing a Che Guevera T-shirt.
Anyways, for anyone who has the new White Dwarf: does it look like the Command Barge will be able to be magnetized so that it is interchangeable with the Destroyer Barge? I'd love to have the option to field either one, without having to commit.
azazel the cat wrote:I'd just assume that the -1 armor effect is spread the same way wounds are amongst an infantry squad.
But only (unsaved) wounds trigger the Entropic ability against non-vehicles, at which point they have been allocated to specific models.
Against vehicles (including squadrons), HITS are what cause the Entropic effect and these aren't allocated to specific models in the squadron until after rolling to penetrate armor.
azazel the cat wrote:I'd just assume that the -1 armor effect is spread the same way wounds are amongst an infantry squad.
But only (unsaved) wounds trigger the Entropic ability against non-vehicles, at which point they have been allocated to specific models.
Against vehicles (including squadrons), HITS are what cause the Entropic effect and these aren't allocated to specific models in the squadron until after rolling to penetrate armor.
Sorry. I meant in the same vein as when wounds, prior to saving rolls, are allocated in a complex unit. With vehicles, wouldn't the defending player spread the entropic hits evenly amongst the squad, and then have the ability to decide where to allocate the remainders?
yakface wrote:
I just realized the Entropic rules (that Scarabs have) are totally lacking when it comes to vehicle squadrons. Because hits on squadrons aren't distributed to individual vehicles until after armor penetration is rolled.
So do all vehicles in the squadron count as being hit by all the attacks or do you just count as evenly spreading the hits across each vehicle? And if so, what about an odd number of hits compared to vehicles in the squadron, who would get to pick where the extra hit would go?
I hope it's covered in the final codex, but I'm doubting it.
And you know the errata is going to make Necron players sad on this one...
azazel the cat wrote:I'd just assume that the -1 armor effect is spread the same way wounds are amongst an infantry squad.
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Nightsbane wrote:Sorry to have to disagree with you, but you are 100% false. There is no such thing as "that's a proper noun" if I word changes into other forms of speech it is no longer a proper noun and no longer has one way of being said. Here is a funny video to play on this concept: http://www.npr.org/blogs/krulwich/2011/09/28/140467781/wanna-live-forever-become-a-noun
Again, Linguistics 500 FTW
Aw, how cute. The linguistics version of an oh-so-rebellious poli-sci student wearing a Che Guevera T-shirt.
Anyways, for anyone who has the new White Dwarf: does it look like the Command Barge will be able to be magnetized so that it is interchangeable with the Destroyer Barge? I'd love to have the option to field either one, without having to commit.
Hmmm, whose opinion should I trust, the guy who's clearly a student of linguistics, or Random Patronizing Internet Guy?
As a guy with a CS degree, I've certainly had enough of the latter telling me I didn't know what I was talking about when it came to the limits of what a computer can or can't simulate, so I think I'm going to go with the former.
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King Pariah wrote:
yakface wrote:
I just realized the Entropic rules (that Scarabs have) are totally lacking when it comes to vehicle squadrons. Because hits on squadrons aren't distributed to individual vehicles until after armor penetration is rolled.
So do all vehicles in the squadron count as being hit by all the attacks or do you just count as evenly spreading the hits across each vehicle? And if so, what about an odd number of hits compared to vehicles in the squadron, who would get to pick where the extra hit would go?
I hope it's covered in the final codex, but I'm doubting it.
And you know the errata is going to make Necron players sad on this one...
I doubt it. Even with the old codex, I loved it when my opponents squadroned up! Immobilized results wreck squadron vehicles, and I certainly had no shortage of glances with which to inflict them
If it turns out that scarabs have to distribute -1 AVs, whatever survives will probably get pen'd by flayers the following round anyway.
yakface wrote:
I just realized the Entropic rules (that Scarabs have) are totally lacking when it comes to vehicle squadrons. Because hits on squadrons aren't distributed to individual vehicles until after armor penetration is rolled.
So do all vehicles in the squadron count as being hit by all the attacks or do you just count as evenly spreading the hits across each vehicle? And if so, what about an odd number of hits compared to vehicles in the squadron, who would get to pick where the extra hit would go?
I hope it's covered in the final codex, but I'm doubting it.
I would allow them to spread the attacks across all of the vehicles as you would with wounds. But this is exactly the kind of weird rule holes that make Ward so disliked.
I can't believe I'm sucked into this, but I wince when I see self-professed linguists attempting to pervert language to the point where everyone can communicate on a level plane at the expense of the language itself.
@Ostrakon: As someone with a CS degree, I would hope you would make a decision based on the rules of the English language. To do otherwise would be the English equivalent of saying "yeah, this string of unreadable code isn't how to actually program a Perl script, but maybe if enough people type in the code this way, those erroneous codes will become correct!"
Far too often Linguistics students confuse actual languages with colloquialisms, and believe they are interchangeable. When texting on your phone, most people type "ur" instead of "you're" or "your". But just because a quarter of a billion people do so, does not actually change the spelling of "your" or "you're" to "ur".
And please do not confuse someone who has taken a Linguistics class with a Linguistics major. Find the answer for yourself, rather than just following the lead of some random guy on the Internet. This includes myself.
I won't say any more on this subject in this thread, and feel bad for going this far off-topic already. I apologize.
The list i will try out first is:
Stormlord
1 cryptek with solar pulse (hoping he isn't the 55 point guy)
10x warriors
10x warriors
10x warriors
10x scarabs
2x destroyers, 1x heavy destroyer
Monolith
Monolith
Doomsday Ark
This comes out to 1550 points if the cryptek is 55 points
That list brings up a question I don't recall seeing any answers about yet: can we mix up the weapons within a squad, or do we have to swap out the entire squad's weapons when we make changes? With Destroyers & Heavy Destroyers, I don't know if I'd see much benefit of mixing up the selections, but with Immortals I think one or two Tesla weapons amongst the rest of the squad as Gauss would be a great tactic.
Language is fluid and only guided by those who speak it, I we want to change it... we do. Spelling, pronunciation, everything. It's why there are children not childs and foxes not foxen.
Wheee, back to topic.
Destroyer Lords we know are in, are Flayed Lords also there? In Fall of Damnos they definitely existed and with the dynasties report it seems that there is a whole tribe of them, would make sense for them to be there. Also, will the Crypteks get any 'fun diseases' like the Destroyer Curse/Flayer Disease, or are they totally immune to everything?
I seem to remember it being mentioned somewhere on an earlier page in this thread that with the exception of characters and lords/crypteks, the squads must all be equipped the same (a-la tyranids).
I am gonna go out on a limb and say this will be the build for the internet's "competetive build" for necrons at 2500points
HQ-
Stormlord: 225 points
An overlord that has max cost of 165 points
Royal Court 1: Single cryptek with solar pulse
Royal Court 2: Single cryptek with solar pulse
Troops-
10x Warriors in Ghost Ark: 235 points
10x Warriors in Ghost Ark: 235 points
10x Warriors in Ghost Ark: 235 points
10x Warriors in Ghost Ark: 235 points
10x Warriors in Ghost Ark: 235 points
Fast Attack-
10x Scarabs: 150 points
10x Scarabs: 150 points
I have done no math or play tests or anything, but I have a feeling it will be like this or at least with 4 warriors in ghosts and a filled out cryptek/lord royal court.
I disagree with the above list, the doomsday arks need to remain stationary to fire at full capacity and thus are easy to hide from by the enemy. I think tomb spyders, monoliths, c'tan, immortals, and wraiths will all be in good lists in the months to come.
I did just notice something very very interesting regarding our vehicles - Rear AV 11! I don't know why I overlooked it for so long in the rumors but even without QS on the rear, anything less than S5 can't touch our boats in close combat. Another spit in the face of tyranids - Hormagaunts and termagants are effectively neutered vs our transports.
Either that, or swap the Doomsdays (1, 2 or all) out for maxed Spyder squads, overboosting the scarabs to nom on everything.
Remember, Entropic stike also works on armour- A scarab swarm going after TH-SS termies or even worse, Tac marines (or pretty much any non-SS marine) would be terrifying, since that gets rid of their armour saves.
azazel the cat wrote:That list brings up a question I don't recall seeing any answers about yet: can we mix up the weapons within a squad, or do we have to swap out the entire squad's weapons when we make changes? With Destroyers & Heavy Destroyers, I don't know if I'd see much benefit of mixing up the selections, but with Immortals I think one or two Tesla weapons amongst the rest of the squad as Gauss would be a great tactic.
Yak, have you seen any word about this?
Most of the units have to upgrade all of their weaponry together. There are a few exceptions though, namely Destroyers (upgrading to Heavy Destroyers), Wraiths & Tomb Spyders.
Azure wrote:
Destroyer Lords we know are in, are Flayed Lords also there? In Fall of Damnos they definitely existed and with the dynasties report it seems that there is a whole tribe of them, would make sense for them to be there. Also, will the Crypteks get any 'fun diseases' like the Destroyer Curse/Flayer Disease, or are they totally immune to everything?
Check out the summary on page 1. I haven't secretly left out any choices in the army in the summary, so if you don't see a unit type there, then it isn't in the codex.
Flayed Ones were an entire Tomb World 'cursed' by the C'Tan they killed with a degenerative disease that makes them go crazy and crave flesh (despite not being able to actually eat it they try anyway). Flayed Ones are sickening to regular Necrons who are afraid they may end up like that eventually, and Flayed Ones presence on the Battlefield is not asked for (they just warp in on their own) and after the battle is over Necrons often try to hunt down and destroy any Flayed Ones they can.
In short, while there may theoretically be a Flayed One Lord, no non-Flayed One Necron would follow him into battle and there is definitely no such option in the codex.
And no, you don't give 'diseases' to anyone in the codex, including Crypteks. You just have the option to take a Destroyer Lord it isn't an upgrade.
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Anvildude wrote:Either that, or swap the Doomsdays (1, 2 or all) out for maxed Spyder squads, overboosting the scarabs to nom on everything.
Remember, Entropic stike also works on armour- A scarab swarm going after TH-SS termies or even worse, Tac marines (or pretty much any non-SS marine) would be terrifying, since that gets rid of their armour saves.
Entropic Strike has no real effect on models with only a single wound, as once they suffer an unsaved wound they are dead.
So this ability only really affects multi-wound models.
@ TetrisPhreak: Given the sheer number of MCs any -remotely- competitive Tyranid list fields, I don't know if this is really a huge benefit. Still can't complain about it, though.
I'm just not sold yet on the Doomsday Ark. It's range is great, but it's value feels too situational for my liking. The board I typically play on happens to be quite terrain-heavy (mostly Cities of Death) so the Ark's inability to move and shoot in the same turn really makes it difficult for me to justify its cost, when I can take a squad of Heavy Destroyers for the same price. (not to mention the fact that I already have 3x Heavy Destroyers, and don't want to pay for a Doomsday Ark unless it can be magnetized as an alternative of the Ghost Ark.)
Hey guys, sorry my silly poem caused so much commotion.
My wife has been hearing me squeal like a little girl all week with necrons coming out.. so being the awesome woman that she is she drew me a little picture!
She says she'll color it if she has the time. Hehe.. it's supposed to be my friend under me (who likes killing me a lot with is Blood Angels)
azazel the cat wrote:I'd just assume that the -1 armor effect is spread the same way wounds are amongst an infantry squad.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nightsbane wrote:Sorry to have to disagree with you, but you are 100% false. There is no such thing as "that's a proper noun" if I word changes into other forms of speech it is no longer a proper noun and no longer has one way of being said. Here is a funny video to play on this concept: http://www.npr.org/blogs/krulwich/2011/09/28/140467781/wanna-live-forever-become-a-noun
Again, Linguistics 500 FTW
Aw, how cute. The linguistics version of an oh-so-rebellious poli-sci student wearing a Che Guevera T-shirt.
Anyways, for anyone who has the new White Dwarf: does it look like the Command Barge will be able to be magnetized so that it is interchangeable with the Destroyer Barge? I'd love to have the option to field either one, without having to commit.
Nope, English Literature, Theatre major with emphasis in Romantic American Literature. As a last note to add, if you truly believe that A. Pronouns cannot become nouns, and B. That there is only one way to pronounce a word then you are simply a sad individual. Not for being wrong, but for arguing with someone with professional experience on the matter.
Case in point, for something relevant to those here, I'm pretty sure you all pronounce "war" wrong. In traditional anglo-saxon it is pronounced "Wahr" with a long, flat a and a harsh r. So, by your logic you say war wrong, because there is only one way to say it. Geez, don't even get me started on accents, lol.
azazel the cat wrote:Given the sheer number of MCs any -remotely- competitive Tyranid list fields, I don't know if this is really a huge benefit. Still can't complain about it, though.
I'm just not sold yet on the Doomsday Ark. It's range is great, but it's value feels too situational for my liking. The board I typically play on happens to be quite terrain-heavy (mostly Cities of Death) so the Ark's inability to move and shoot in the same turn really makes it difficult for me to justify its cost, when I can take a squad of Heavy Destroyers for the same price. (not to mention the fact that I already have 3x Heavy Destroyers, and don't want to pay for a Doomsday Ark unless it can be magnetized as an alternative of the Ghost Ark.)
Agreed on all points. I just wanted to bring attention to the fact that aside from a couple Leman Russ variants, or Drop Pods/Storm Ravens, Having rear AV higher than 10 is a pretty rare thing. All our vehicles are higher than average rear AV from what I can tell so far.
Anvildude wrote:Either that, or swap the Doomsdays (1, 2 or all) out for maxed Spyder squads, overboosting the scarabs to nom on everything.
Remember, Entropic stike also works on armour- A scarab swarm going after TH-SS termies or even worse, Tac marines (or pretty much any non-SS marine) would be terrifying, since that gets rid of their armour saves.
The rule that scarabs have to reduce vehicle armor does work on non vehicle models, but only removes the armor save if the model takes an unsaved wound. Therefore it only effects multiple wound models.
Am I the only one who is intrigued by Zahndrekh & Obryon? I think these guys would help make a shooting and CC balanced Necron army viable. (1850 points is the standard tournament size here)
I'm interested if his ability to grant universal special rules to friendly units is range limited or line of sight limited, or it simply happens at the start of your turn. He also makes holding things in reserve much easier to pull onto the table if you are playing a list with reserves.
I like the idea of Zahndrekh accompanying a squad of Sword/Shield Lychguard and then bestowing them with furious charge, should make for a fairly reliable CC unit, the bodyguard can hide somewhere and just warp into the close combat, then use the Ghostwalker mantle can get them out of close combat if things start to look bad. Could also have a similar styled Praetorian unit too, but furious charge wouldn't make much difference. You could instead give Praetorians hit and run if you want to pick away at something and return to somewhere safer. Also the option of having a huge scarab swarm and giving them stealth. Or even Tank hunter Wraiths!
Maybe I'm just imagining the possibilities being greater than the reality, but he would give you some interesting options to choose from on the fly.
After reading peoples comments on the army list, as well as realizing 10 warriors in a ghost ark would be 245 points, I came to the conclusion the only part people disagree with is the heavy support options. This means people think that the 1 solar pulse crypteks + stormlord, 2-3 10x warriors in ghost arks, and a squad or two of 10x scarabs will be standard.
@sectiplate
I think he would be awesome to, especially the way you thought to use him, but i think the draw of stormlord+solar pulse seems more like a dick move, ergo causing more of a gravitaion towards it.
The Metal Tide wrote:I think that he would be an ideal choice, especially paired with a squad of lychguard (warscythe or PW-SS equivalent weapon choice)
Yeah I'm wondering if you can mix and match Lych guard, having a S8 power weapon striking at a relatively high initiative is going to put the fear into most monstrous creatures. Also allows you to allocate wounds to some degree.
I'm thinking to build my Necron list around him, as I really want to have some reliable close combat units teamed up with solid shooting. Also being able to Ghostwalker mantle or bestow hit and run on certain units it allows you to leave the opponents dedicated close combat units sitting around sucking on their thumbs while you open up with the shooty side of your army.
I don't think I can go past the tactical choices you would be provided with him, the only downside is they look to be somewhere around 300 for the pair of them.
Sectiplave wrote:Also the option of having a huge scarab swarm and giving them stealth.
I'm pretty sure scarabs have the Swarm USR which also grants the Stealth USR already. However I will agree that being able to grant Tank Hunter to Heavy Destroyers and Wraiths will be awesome though.
Honestly, I think the Ghostwalker Mantle can have absolutely devastating effects. Pair up Obyron with a squad of Praetorians, and then if they are locked in CC, just use the Mantle to warp the unit a few inches out of CC during the movement phase, fire off those brutal 6" guns that the Praetorians carry, then assault back into CC. That is, so long as Zandrekh is nearby, there's no scatter to the Ghostwalker Mantle, right?
mondo80 wrote:What does the night scythe look like?
Something like this probably
Am I missing the joke here? What is that?
That's a Death Glider from Stargate SG-1. The joke is that the Goa'uld (evil space aliens) were egyptian themed, as are the current Necrons. It's another avenue of the "Tomb Kings in Space" argument.
Sectiplave wrote:Am I the only one who is intrigued by Zahndrekh & Obryon? I think these guys would help make a shooting and CC balanced Necron army viable. .
I instantly gravitated to them as well. Main problem that I have with them is that they won't be available wave 1, and their cost.
I still dream of Deep Striking a squad of Heavy Destroyers into someone's backline and proceeding to wipe out his long range support.
azazel the cat wrote:Honestly, I think the Ghostwalker Mantle can have absolutely devastating effects. Pair up Obyron with a squad of Praetorians, and then if they are locked in CC, just use the Mantle to warp the unit a few inches out of CC during the movement phase, fire off those brutal 6" guns that the Praetorians carry, then assault back into CC. That is, so long as Zandrekh is nearby, there's no scatter to the Ghostwalker Mantle, right?
FalkorsRaiders wrote:I am gonna go out on a limb and say this will be the build for the internet's "competetive build" for necrons at 2500points
HQ-
Stormlord: 225 points
An overlord that has max cost of 165 points
Royal Court 1: Single cryptek with solar pulse
Royal Court 2: Single cryptek with solar pulse
Troops-
10x Warriors in Ghost Ark: 235 points
10x Warriors in Ghost Ark: 235 points
10x Warriors in Ghost Ark: 235 points
10x Warriors in Ghost Ark: 235 points
10x Warriors in Ghost Ark: 235 points
Fast Attack-
10x Scarabs: 150 points
10x Scarabs: 150 points
I have done no math or play tests or anything, but I have a feeling it will be like this or at least with 4 warriors in ghosts and a filled out cryptek/lord royal court.
FalkorsRaiders wrote:I am gonna go out on a limb and say this will be the build for the internet's "competetive build" for necrons at 2500points
HQ- Stormlord: 225 points An overlord that has max cost of 165 points Royal Court 1: Single cryptek with solar pulse Royal Court 2: Single cryptek with solar pulse
Troops- 10x Warriors in Ghost Ark: 235 points 10x Warriors in Ghost Ark: 235 points 10x Warriors in Ghost Ark: 235 points 10x Warriors in Ghost Ark: 235 points 10x Warriors in Ghost Ark: 235 points
Fast Attack- 10x Scarabs: 150 points 10x Scarabs: 150 points
I have done no math or play tests or anything, but I have a feeling it will be like this or at least with 4 warriors in ghosts and a filled out cryptek/lord royal court.
If you're setting up your army around Imotekh's lightning attack, I would swap out some Warriors and insert some Destroyers or Heavy Destroyers for your third FA slot. If you plan to make sure night fighting is only harming your opponent's army, you may as well take full advantage of your shooting window. Additionally, if your opponent is wise to your tactic, you can expect to see transports, jet bikes and any troops with Fleet rushing down your throat right away, so the extra 36" range of the Destroyers will help make sure your opponent's transports just become a wrecked parking lot in the middle of the table, and any units on foot get mowed down quickly. The points difference will also allow you to squeeze in another Cryptek or Lord, maybe to give your Warrior squads some much-needed CC ability.
azazel the cat wrote:Honestly, I think the Ghostwalker Mantle can have absolutely devastating effects. Pair up Obyron with a squad of Praetorians, and then if they are locked in CC, just use the Mantle to warp the unit a few inches out of CC during the movement phase, fire off those brutal 6" guns that the Praetorians carry, then assault back into CC. That is, so long as Zandrekh is nearby, there's no scatter to the Ghostwalker Mantle, right?
Sounds like it'd be an awesome tactic, but, alas, no assaulting after Deepstriking. Yet.
azazel the cat wrote:That is, so long as Zandrekh is nearby, there's no scatter to the Ghostwalker Mantle, right?
Yes if they choose to come down within 6" of Zandrekh they will not scatter, but they still count as coming from Deep Strike I believe, so currently re-assaulting is not possible. It will be a very powerful tool in 6th Edition if the new Deep Strike rules are accurate.
And yes swarms are already stealth actually, gives you more room to Hit and Run / Furious Charge / Tank Hunter other units depending on what they are upto.
I think Wraiths will be more versatile also with a few of those bonus USR to help them out depending on what you want to throw them at.
I sadly regret only buying the one tomb spyder when my FLGS had 2 in stock. The other got relocated to another store and someone else bought it. The same can be said for 3 wraiths, but i got the other 6 and i'm glad I did, I'll have a full squad to test out their capabilities on release day.
The Metal Tide wrote:I think that he would be an ideal choice, especially paired with a squad of lychguard (warscythe or PW-SS equivalent weapon choice)
Yeah I'm wondering if you can mix and match Lych guard, having a S8 power weapon striking at a relatively high initiative is going to put the fear into most monstrous creatures. Also allows you to allocate wounds to some degree.
I'm thinking to build my Necron list around him, as I really want to have some reliable close combat units teamed up with solid shooting. Also being able to Ghostwalker mantle or bestow hit and run on certain units it allows you to leave the opponents dedicated close combat units sitting around sucking on their thumbs while you open up with the shooty side of your army.
I don't think I can go past the tactical choices you would be provided with him, the only downside is they look to be somewhere around 300 for the pair of them.
i was wondering if obryon was optional like honor guard or whether you had to take him. that way you could field him in smaller games without the 300pt cost.
Just a thought. Although I would imagine that you would want to take him.
Advance Orders for Necrons go up this coming Saturday morning, just after midnight on Friday GMT has been the SOP since the end of May. That's just after 7 PM Eastern Time in the US if they stick to what they've been doing for months now. Release date is November 5.
The Metal Tide wrote:i was wondering if obryon was optional like honor guard or whether you had to take him. that way you could field him in smaller games without the 300pt cost.
Just a thought. Although I would imagine that you would want to take him.
That's a good thought actually, they would be leaning on the too expensive side of things under 1500pts or so. 1850 is my usual game size for friendly matches and tournaments, so they will feature in my standard 1850 list.
That and I really want the Ghostwalker Mantle, it sounds like a pimped version of the Veil of Darkness, and that was an amazing Necron lord upgrade! It left your enemy open to return fire on your terms, or could get you out of tar pit close combats. I remember it annoyed quite a few people, as it would throw their game plan off. It was worth it's 60 point cost, so I'll factor that into the cost of of the Z&O combo
H.B.M.C. wrote:Seriously though, if the flyer did look like a Necron'd out Death Glider, that would be pretty awesome.
Yeah I'm sure it will be looking like that, after seeing the command barge style, I can see it being a more flyer looking version without standing area etc. at 15 transport capacity, it makes me think it will be a fairly large model too.
Still kinda surprised they didn't drop it at release, as I'm sure it will clock in at land raider prices or higher.
From what I recall, for fluff purposes, the model need not actually be terribly large. As it's been described, it's a fast aircraft that has a portal on the underside. The 15 guys aren't actually inside the thing.
Hey, ive been reading this thread, and the Warseer necron rumor thread...
This just came up
Originally Posted by Sabe from Warseer
Heads up guys, think i might have uncovered the reason why Bram thought the Ghost Ark gives warriors Everliving. It doesn't, but it does operate as the second vacuum cleaner in the necron army(the first being the monoliths suck-you-into-a-pocket-dimension attack).
When a necron warrior dies within a few inches(unsure as to how close) of a Ghost Ark(as in they fail their reanimation) they are sucked up into it. After it fills its compliment of warriors(I believe 10) it spits out the whole lot of them as a brand new warrior unit(10 strong). Hence why warriors are impossible to get rid of while its around.
Nifty mechanic I might add. Won't disclose my source at the moment but he's apparently seen the WD and the dex so if this turns out correct you'll all get a laugh about who it was."
GiantSlingshot wrote:From what I recall, for fluff purposes, the model need not actually be terribly large. As it's been described, it's a fast aircraft that has a portal on the underside. The 15 guys aren't actually inside the thing.
Ahhh yes you are right! This doesn't seem to have had much attention actually, isn't that literally exactly what all the Necron "fans/purists" were asking for in transport craft?
It could also gain popularity depending on it's cost, and if 6th edition makes transports more dangerous for those who are inside it. You'd want a Monolith to help get them back out of reserves quickly though so not exactly cheap my any stretch of the imagination.
gdsora wrote:Hey, ive been reading this thread, and the Warseer necron rumor thread...
This just came up
Originally Posted by Sabe from Warseer
Heads up guys, think i might have uncovered the reason why Bram thought the Ghost Ark gives warriors Everliving. It doesn't, but it does operate as the second vacuum cleaner in the necron army(the first being the monoliths suck-you-into-a-pocket-dimension attack).
When a necron warrior dies within a few inches(unsure as to how close) of a Ghost Ark(as in they fail their reanimation) they are sucked up into it. After it fills its compliment of warriors(I believe 10) it spits out the whole lot of them as a brand new warrior unit(10 strong). Hence why warriors are impossible to get rid of while its around.
Nifty mechanic I might add. Won't disclose my source at the moment but he's apparently seen the WD and the dex so if this turns out correct you'll all get a laugh about who it was."
Any validity to this statement?
If this is true then all of the Sudden the ghost barge is looking pretty cheap for what it does
I think the reanimate D3 Warriors is a little more believable and less complicated. Though as a Necron player I wouldn't mind having both or either abilities on the Ark.
asimo77 wrote:I think the reanimate D3 Warriors is a little more believable and less complicated. Though as a Necron player I wouldn't mind having both or either abilities on the Ark.
On Warseer they're saying you get both. I'd love to hear Yak chime in on this one...
gdsora wrote:Hey, ive been reading this thread, and the Warseer necron rumor thread...
This just came up
Originally Posted by Sabe from Warseer
Heads up guys, think i might have uncovered the reason why Bram thought the Ghost Ark gives warriors Everliving. It doesn't, but it does operate as the second vacuum cleaner in the necron army(the first being the monoliths suck-you-into-a-pocket-dimension attack).
When a necron warrior dies within a few inches(unsure as to how close) of a Ghost Ark(as in they fail their reanimation) they are sucked up into it. After it fills its compliment of warriors(I believe 10) it spits out the whole lot of them as a brand new warrior unit(10 strong). Hence why warriors are impossible to get rid of while its around.
Nifty mechanic I might add. Won't disclose my source at the moment but he's apparently seen the WD and the dex so if this turns out correct you'll all get a laugh about who it was."
Question on the Stormlord & 2 solar pulse crypteks. Is it worth the points?
You're mostly taking stormlord for the nightfight rules, then using the pulse to negate it on your turn. However the pulse can also cause nightfight rules in their shooting phase.
Because of Imoteks strategy rule, you'll start first 2/3 of the time. That means nightfight starts to be mutually disadvantagous on your turn 3. The enemy only "misses" 2 shooting phases before you "miss" them too. This could be done considerably cheaper by not taking stormlord at all, and only using the crypteks.
So the question is, will the Stormlords other abilities be worth the difference in points between him and a generic lord?
Leggy wrote:Question on the Stormlord & 2 solar pulse crypteks. Is it worth the points?
You're mostly taking stormlord for the nightfight rules, then using the pulse to negate it on your turn. However the pulse can also cause nightfight rules in their shooting phase.
Because of Imoteks strategy rule, you'll start first 2/3 of the time. That means nightfight starts to be mutually disadvantagous on your turn 3. The enemy only "misses" 2 shooting phases before you "miss" them too. This could be done considerably cheaper by not taking stormlord at all, and only using the crypteks.
So the question is, will the Stormlords other abilities be worth the difference in points between him and a generic lord?
By turn 3, the opponent will probably be close enough to make Night Fighting not too much an issue.
Leggy wrote:Question on the Stormlord & 2 solar pulse crypteks. Is it worth the points?
You're mostly taking stormlord for the nightfight rules, then using the pulse to negate it on your turn. However the pulse can also cause nightfight rules in their shooting phase.
Because of Imoteks strategy rule, you'll start first 2/3 of the time. That means nightfight starts to be mutually disadvantagous on your turn 3. The enemy only "misses" 2 shooting phases before you "miss" them too. This could be done considerably cheaper by not taking stormlord at all, and only using the crypteks.
So the question is, will the Stormlords other abilities be worth the difference in points between him and a generic lord?
By turn 3, the opponent will probably be close enough to make Night Fighting not too much an issue.
Well, exactly. Will you need the whole games worth of night fight when two solar pulses worth will do the trick?
I would say you only need the stormlord, and some long range shooting, in esscence you take him for the start and the possible lightning hits on the opponent.
Not really convinced by him, think some other chars definetly have more impact on the game and the army, but we know not much of their equipment and saves yet.
Leggy wrote:Question on the Stormlord & 2 solar pulse crypteks. Is it worth the points?
You're mostly taking stormlord for the nightfight rules, then using the pulse to negate it on your turn. However the pulse can also cause nightfight rules in their shooting phase.
Because of Imoteks strategy rule, you'll start first 2/3 of the time. That means nightfight starts to be mutually disadvantagous on your turn 3. The enemy only "misses" 2 shooting phases before you "miss" them too. This could be done considerably cheaper by not taking stormlord at all, and only using the crypteks.
So the question is, will the Stormlords other abilities be worth the difference in points between him and a generic lord?
By turn 3, the opponent will probably be close enough to make Night Fighting not too much an issue.
Well, exactly. Will you need the whole games worth of night fight when two solar pulses worth will do the trick?
You don't take the Stormlord because he causes Night Fighting. You take him because he causes 1/6th of the enemy units to suffer D6 S8 hits every turn, regardless of where the enemy units are (other than in reserves). The Solar Pulses are to allow you to have some long range shooting as well.
Leggy wrote:Question on the Stormlord & 2 solar pulse crypteks. Is it worth the points?
You're mostly taking stormlord for the nightfight rules, then using the pulse to negate it on your turn. However the pulse can also cause nightfight rules in their shooting phase.
Because of Imoteks strategy rule, you'll start first 2/3 of the time. That means nightfight starts to be mutually disadvantagous on your turn 3. The enemy only "misses" 2 shooting phases before you "miss" them too. This could be done considerably cheaper by not taking stormlord at all, and only using the crypteks.
So the question is, will the Stormlords other abilities be worth the difference in points between him and a generic lord?
By turn 3, the opponent will probably be close enough to make Night Fighting not too much an issue.
Well, exactly. Will you need the whole games worth of night fight when two solar pulses worth will do the trick?
You don't take the Stormlord because he causes Night Fighting. You take him because he causes 1/6th of the enemy units to suffer D6 S8 hits every turn, regardless of where the enemy units are (other than in reserves). The Solar Pulses are to allow you to have some long range shooting as well.
I think this, in combination with the increased chance he grants to Alpha Strike, is pretty big. It seems like you really want to cause as much Havoc at range as you can, so you are just on clean up duty the last few turns.
Yeah, as you guys have stated rounds up my same interest in the Storm Lord. I have an old Eldar Rival I am hoping to make soil is pants by taking heavy casualties and not being able to fire back very well for a turn or two.
"Ok, looks like I go first"
"..."
"and...it's dark now"
"..."
"and lightning bolts are now hitting your troops"
"..."
MasterSlowPoke wrote:You realize that out of all the Necron releases, only the Flayed Ones have any skulls on the model, right? And those are actually appropriate.
I'm not counting Necron heads as those don't really count.
Are you saying I have a weaker grasp of 40kifying a model then does the design team? Cause frankly, I'm just following their cues from the Skullcastle of Skullamancy Tower they released recently.
MasterSlowPoke wrote:You realize that out of all the Necron releases, only the Flayed Ones have any skulls on the model, right? And those are actually appropriate.
I'm not counting Necron heads as those don't really count.
Are you saying I have a weaker grasp of 40kifying a model then does the design team? Cause frankly, I'm just following their cues from the Skullcastle of Skullamancy Tower they released recently.
He's just saying you made it too imperial and not necrony enough. You need to add glowy rods and glowy balls and ankhs and a sphinx AS WELL AS SKULLZ
gdsora wrote:Hey, ive been reading this thread, and the Warseer necron rumor thread...
This just came up
Originally Posted by Sabe from Warseer
Heads up guys, think i might have uncovered the reason why Bram thought the Ghost Ark gives warriors Everliving. It doesn't, but it does operate as the second vacuum cleaner in the necron army(the first being the monoliths suck-you-into-a-pocket-dimension attack).
When a necron warrior dies within a few inches(unsure as to how close) of a Ghost Ark(as in they fail their reanimation) they are sucked up into it. After it fills its compliment of warriors(I believe 10) it spits out the whole lot of them as a brand new warrior unit(10 strong). Hence why warriors are impossible to get rid of while its around.
Nifty mechanic I might add. Won't disclose my source at the moment but he's apparently seen the WD and the dex so if this turns out correct you'll all get a laugh about who it was."
Any validity to this statement?
I highly doubt it. When the Ghost Ark's ability to support Necron Warrior units is explained rules-wise in the WD, it only talks about the D3 models.
Edit: Also, it's not a little tweak to the rules we're talking about here...if they were planning to add something like this to the Ghost Ark, I'm pretty sure it would have popped up in Yak's version as well (as his codex is apparently extremely accurate except for some minor point tweaks).
Yeah my money is on the rule being D3 regeneration, but perhaps what gdsora described is the fluff behind it or something.
Imagine a vacuum cleaner that sucks up broken Warriors, reassembles them inside itself that spits em out. Rolling a D3 of course is the abstraction of all that.
It does look like warriors really will be a stronger choice overall from where they once werel. I felt like doing some mathhammer after looking at one of these lists people have been posting and thought I'd post my results on the damage results of a 5 troops of 10 warriors each with ghost ark.
I spoiler'ed the math so this post wouldn't stretch to long.
It's very nice to see the increase in potentiol threat the basic warriors can make to the game now instead of just being something I'd usually keep in reserves as long as possible. I can also say the warriors can be a much stronger threat by being capable to move 6 in their ark and still shoot the 50 gauss flayers on the 5 vehicles the full 24".
hollowmirror wrote:It does look like warriors really will be a stronger choice overall from where they once werel. I felt like doing some mathhammer after looking at one of these lists people have been posting and thought I'd post my results on the damage results of a 5 troops of 10 warriors each with ghost ark.
I spoiler'ed the math so this post wouldn't stretch to long.
It's very nice to see the increase in potentiol threat the basic warriors can make to the game now instead of just being something I'd usually keep in reserves as long as possible. I can also say the warriors can be a much stronger threat by being capable to move 6 in their ark and still shoot the 50 gauss flayers on the 5 vehicles the full 24".
asimo77 wrote:Yeah my money is on the rule being D3 regeneration, but perhaps what gdsora described is the fluff behind it or something.
Imagine a vacuum cleaner that sucks up broken Warriors, reassembles them inside itself that spits em out. Rolling a D3 of course is the abstraction of all that.
Quite correct.
WD claims that once per turn d3 models can be reanimated in a Necron warrior squad within 6".
Anyway, re: crypteks, is anyone gonna buy the model or convert your own? I'm planning on buying one, but I don't want all of them to look the same, so does anyone have any advice regarding converting some?
The 2 existing Lords, the barge Overlord, the 2 Special Characters, remaining Finecast Overlord, and lastly the Cryptek leave quite a few options for HQ's and Royal Courts. I also bet you can make some good stuff out of the Lycheguard/Praetorian kit, since they seem to have the most ornate parts.
Robbietobbie wrote:My girlfriend picked it up for me yesterday so it's available alright
I picked it up yesterday as well. Guess it depends on the country, I'm from the Netherlands just like Robbietobbie.
Speaking of the White Dwarf: I never found anything on the Warscythe rolling 2D6 against armour. It most definitely states that Warriors are 13 points however, separately when discussing the Warrior and in the army lists for the battle report. Some other point values that can be learned from the battle report are:
- Necron Lord @ 45 points
- Necron Cryptek @ 35 points and 55 points (depending on wargear no doubt)
- Lychguard @ 40 points...however, one squad of 5 was +25 points more expensive...could be that the shield option is +5 points.
- Deathmarks @ 19 points...not that bad, actually.
- Flayed Ones @ 13 points (and no mention at all of the "Fearsome Visage" rule or something they used to have)
- Warriors @ 13 points
- Ghost Ark @ 115 points
- Immortals @ 17 points regardless of weapon
- Scarabs @ 15 points per base
- Destroyers @ 40 points
- Heavy Destroyers @ 60 points
Not overpriced as far as Warriors, Flayed Ones, and Immortals are concerned. Scarabs are a bit costly since they can be instantly killed with their T3. No opinion about the rest.
Not really. The scarabs can get WWB, and they have entropic strike.
In fact, Scarabs seem to be quite powerful for what they can achieve. The enemy will be hard pressed to take them down before they reach his tanks.
Just math-hammered the new immortals/warriors (without Cover).
For the same amount of points 221, (13 immortals, 17warriors):
MEQ's carbine - 2.89, blaster - 1.93, 3.85 rf, flayer - 1.89 3.98 rf.
For any troops unit with 4+ save the blaster significantly beats either, 7 (14 rf) models as opposed to 5 for the carbine and 4 (8 rf) for the flayer.
Troops with 5+ save will lose about 7models (15 rf) with the blaster/flayer and carbine only 7.
Terminators are basically marines with half the death rate.
Basically the only difference is how you would play them and the model count and their survivability. I'd probably use the carbines as foot sluggers and put immortals/warriors in the ghost arcs to get into rapid fire range.
How could flayers possibly be better than blasters? They have 1 less strength and no other bonuses that I can see.
I was really considering taking Imhotek until I saw that he didn't have a p-wep - at the moment I think Zandrekh and Obyron are the go. The overlord giveth and the overlord taketh away. How soon do you think the flier models will be released - the both look awesome in rules, and hopefully in model as well.
Wow so not only did they screw with the necron fluff, they screwed with the tyranid fluff as well. It was explicitly stated that tyranid avoid the necrons because they have no organic material to consume and now that the necrons want to make all the other races subservient, they could for all intents and purposes avoid the tyranids. I could understand necrons attacking tyranids because they cant be enslaved but for a tyranid fleet to attack a necron tombworld is ridiculous. They tend to be sterile planets, wiped clean of life by the necrons. That means the tyranids would need to assault a rapidly regenerating race of fearless calculating machines on a planet with no biomass to use for hatching troops. After the initial assault there would be no way to reinforce except through manually landing biomass on the planet which seems like an awful lot of work. I doubt the "hivemind" or whatever would accept the catastrophic losses that would be brought on by such an assault.
Hox wrote:Wow so not only did they screw with the necron fluff, they screwed with the tyranid fluff as well. It was explicitly stated that tyranid avoid the necrons because they have no organic material to consume and now that the necrons want to make all the other races subservient, they could for all intents and purposes avoid the tyranids. I could understand necrons attacking tyranids because they cant be enslaved but for a tyranid fleet to attack a necron tombworld is ridiculous. They tend to be sterile planets, wiped clean of life by the necrons. That means the tyranids would need to assault a rapidly regenerating race of fearless calculating machines on a planet with no biomass to use for hatching troops. After the initial assault there would be no way to reinforce except through manually landing biomass on the planet which seems like an awful lot of work. I doubt the "hivemind" or whatever would accept the catastrophic losses that would be brought on by such an assault.
I think that the Nids attacked while everyone is asleep (before the Necrons have taken a blow torch to the 'local' population). The Nid attack tends to make bad things happen, and that will certainly kill off sleeping necrons.
Seems like one of the named Lords has taken an aggressive "No Nid" policy, and is taking the fight to the bugs.
Hox wrote:Wow so not only did they screw with the necron fluff, they screwed with the tyranid fluff as well. It was explicitly stated that tyranid avoid the necrons because they have no organic material to consume and now that the necrons want to make all the other races subservient, they could for all intents and purposes avoid the tyranids. I could understand necrons attacking tyranids because they cant be enslaved but for a tyranid fleet to attack a necron tombworld is ridiculous. They tend to be sterile planets, wiped clean of life by the necrons. That means the tyranids would need to assault a rapidly regenerating race of fearless calculating machines on a planet with no biomass to use for hatching troops. After the initial assault there would be no way to reinforce except through manually landing biomass on the planet which seems like an awful lot of work. I doubt the "hivemind" or whatever would accept the catastrophic losses that would be brought on by such an assault.
If you're gonna employ a phrase like "explicitly stated" you better be prepared to produce a quotation and/or page reference when somebody (like me) requests it.
I think we can all agree that's it been said that Tyranids avoid Necron strongholds, but I don't remember their motives for doing so ever being made explicit. It's mostly been speculation, iirc. Furthermore, even if it was stated I suspect there's a strong likelihood that it was in an Imperial PoV, and therefore sourced from an unreliable narrator.
Anyway, all that aside, there are still reasons for Tyranids to attack a tomb world. Hive Fleets operate on a galactic strategic level. If there's a system the nids want that happens to contain one planet with a hidden Necron tomb the Hive Mind might consider dispatching it to be tactically prudent; a cost/benefit gamble.
Altruizine wrote:Anyway, all that aside, there are still reasons for Tyranids to attack a tomb world. Hive Fleets operate on a galactic strategic level. If there's a system the nids want that happens to contain one planet with a hidden Necron tomb the Hive Mind might consider dispatching it to be tactically prudent; a cost/benefit gamble.
This is the only rationalization that makes sense, but even still, this tidbit of fluff is easily my least favorite with this book, currently. I get they're moving away from them being the 40K borg essentially, and individualizing them. I even sort of like it despite the fact that it does humanize (and thus demystify) them quite a bit. The part with the Necron trading with other races is a rough one as well, but they haven't queered the deal yet; I could certainly see the Tau being open to this if the Necrons were reasonable. The part with Necrons serving as mercenaries is appalling, but I'm holding my tongue on that since if it's just for intra-Necron wars it's not too bad.
But the Tyranids attacking Necrons kind of rapes a lot of fluff for no real gain. My understanding was that the anti-pskyer emanations from some Necron units (perhaps obsolete, now) were such that it interfered with the Hive Mind, and so they avoided them. Additionally, since active tomb worlds are "cleansed of all life, even bacteria in the atmosphere" formerly, I don't even see what's in it for the Tyranids.
The only working spin would be that, as you say, the hive mind is intentionally expending resources for no real game as part of a larger conquest. I hope that, or something similar, is how this explained.
I'm not sure about you guys but the 115 pt transport that is AV11 open topped seems to be eating points and giving away a free kill point. Some people have been comparing them to Eldar or Tau transports but both of those are way more survivable then ours, we are much closer to the a ED raider made out of paper. If you go up vs someone that knows how the game works he will see that is an easy fast kill point. Then is even before he finds out that it can help rez D3 models form a unit.
From what I understand the transport is not fast so you can't over boost to get a cover save. So holding one or two in reserve seems to be my only option if I really wanted to use them.
Altruizine wrote:Anyway, all that aside, there are still reasons for Tyranids to attack a tomb world. Hive Fleets operate on a galactic strategic level. If there's a system the nids want that happens to contain one planet with a hidden Necron tomb the Hive Mind might consider dispatching it to be tactically prudent; a cost/benefit gamble.
This is the only rationalization that makes sense, but even still, this tidbit of fluff is easily my least favorite with this book, currently. I get they're moving away from them being the 40K borg essentially, and individualizing them. I even sort of like it despite the fact that it does humanize (and thus demystify) them quite a bit. The part with the Necron trading with other races is a rough one as well, but they haven't queered the deal yet; I could certainly see the Tau being open to this if the Necrons were reasonable. The part with Necrons serving as mercenaries is appalling, but I'm holding my tongue on that since if it's just for intra-Necron wars it's not too bad.
But the Tyranids attacking Necrons kind of rapes a lot of fluff for no real gain. My understanding was that the anti-pskyer emanations from some Necron units (perhaps obsolete, now) were such that it interfered with the Hive Mind, and so they avoided them. Additionally, since active tomb worlds are "cleansed of all life, even bacteria in the atmosphere" formerly, I don't even see what's in it for the Tyranids.
The only working spin would be that, as you say, the hive mind is intentionally expending resources for no real game as part of a larger conquest. I hope that, or something similar, is how this explained.
Wait for the codex to read what it really uses to explain it. If it's just "Necron BFE Dynasty destroyed by Tyranids - m41" then I think everyone will be like "lolwut?" Otherwise no biggie.
Balor wrote:I'm not sure about you guys but the 115 pt transport that is AV11 open topped seems to be eating points and giving away a free kill point. Some people have been comparing them to Eldar or Tau transports but both of those are way more survivable then ours, we are much closer to the a ED raider made out of paper. If you go up vs someone that knows how the game works he will see that is an easy fast kill point. Then is even before he finds out that it can help rez D3 models form a unit.
From what I understand the transport is not fast so you can't over boost to get a cover save. So holding one or two in reserve seems to be my only option if I really wanted to use them.
Read about Quantum Shielding on the first page. Also, WD says it takes a penetrating hit break it.
So i have preordered my new 'crons and i'm following this thread closely, but i can't believe we havn't seen any speculations about this bolded bit yet:
Trazyn the Infinite: He is a Necron who woke very early and is fascinated with studying and collecting history. His tomb world is filled with secret trinkets including (I quote) 'a giant of a man clad in baroque power armor'. He even will attack other Necron tomb worlds to capture artifacts from them that he doesn't think they deserve.
A necron lord with his very own Primarch? And if so...who is it? Jaghatai Khan, Leman Russ, Vulkan and Corax all currently missing/unknown status, not counting the traitors here 'cause most of them are now demon princes and accounted for...except maybe Alpharius/Omegon whoever is still alive of them IF one got killed by Roboute Guilliman. legions 2 and 11 are deleted from the imperial records so could be something from either of those....
Aandiin wrote:So i have preordered my new 'crons and i'm following this thread closely, but i can't believe we havn't seen any speculations about this bolded bit yet:
Trazyn the Infinite: He is a Necron who woke very early and is fascinated with studying and collecting history. His tomb world is filled with secret trinkets including (I quote) 'a giant of a man clad in baroque power armor'. He even will attack other Necron tomb worlds to capture artifacts from them that he doesn't think they deserve.
A necron lord with his very own Primarch? And if so...who is it? Jaghatai Khan, Leman Russ, Vulkan and Corax all currently missing/unknown status, not counting the traitors here 'cause most of them are now demon princes and accounted for...except maybe Alpharius/Omegon whoever is still alive of them IF one got killed by Roboute Guilliman. legions 2 and 11 are deleted from the imperial records so could be something from either of those....
Anyone have any wild speculations while we wait?
There was some talk about it early on. Anyway, nothing about that statement lends me to jump to the Primarch conclusion. ALL space marines are giants among men, and baroque power armor basicly just means that it's elaborate, which being a subjective term, really could belong to any important or well-decorated marine.
Hox wrote:Wow so not only did they screw with the necron fluff, they screwed with the tyranid fluff as well. It was explicitly stated that tyranid avoid the necrons because they have no organic material to consume and now that the necrons want to make all the other races subservient, they could for all intents and purposes avoid the tyranids. I could understand necrons attacking tyranids because they cant be enslaved but for a tyranid fleet to attack a necron tombworld is ridiculous. They tend to be sterile planets, wiped clean of life by the necrons. That means the tyranids would need to assault a rapidly regenerating race of fearless calculating machines on a planet with no biomass to use for hatching troops. After the initial assault there would be no way to reinforce except through manually landing biomass on the planet which seems like an awful lot of work. I doubt the "hivemind" or whatever would accept the catastrophic losses that would be brought on by such an assault.
Ouze wrote:But the Tyranids attacking Necrons kind of rapes a lot of fluff for no real gain. My understanding was that the anti-pskyer emanations from some Necron units (perhaps obsolete, now) were such that it interfered with the Hive Mind, and so they avoided them. Additionally, since active tomb worlds are "cleansed of all life, even bacteria in the atmosphere" formerly, I don't even see what's in it for the Tyranids.
The only working spin would be that, as you say, the hive mind is intentionally expending resources for no real game as part of a larger conquest. I hope that, or something similar, is how this explained.
You guys need to start citing page numbers before you bring up fluff "rapeage".
There is to my knowledge nothing in the existing Necron codex that discusses Necron-Tyranid relationships. There's just the small bit of artwork on the back cover showing a hive fleet apparently avoiding Necrons. All the theories as to why this happened are strictly inventions of the customer base.
Besides, part of the point of the fluff is to justify the army matchups that occur when we play games against one another. That's all this is doing.
Aandiin wrote:So i have preordered my new 'crons and i'm following this thread closely, but i can't believe we havn't seen any speculations about this bolded bit yet:
Trazyn the Infinite: He is a Necron who woke very early and is fascinated with studying and collecting history. His tomb world is filled with secret trinkets including (I quote) 'a giant of a man clad in baroque power armor'. He even will attack other Necron tomb worlds to capture artifacts from them that he doesn't think they deserve.
A necron lord with his very own Primarch? And if so...who is it? Jaghatai Khan, Leman Russ, Vulkan and Corax all currently missing/unknown status, not counting the traitors here 'cause most of them are now demon princes and accounted for...except maybe Alpharius/Omegon whoever is still alive of them IF one got killed by Roboute Guilliman. legions 2 and 11 are deleted from the imperial records so could be something from either of those....
Anyone have any wild speculations while we wait?
Actually me and a SW buddy theorize its Leman Russ. He cut a deal to suspend himself until the Wolftime... lol
Ouze wrote:Was the armor normal space marine size (10 feet tall) or primarch size (15 feet?)
I'm sure it has to Be Primarch size. Necrons are nearly space marine Height at like 9 Feet, so who would care if it was a 10 foot space marine? Of course only a Primarch would be a "giant of a man" to them. and Plus, who would care if he had a regular space marine captive? It wouldn't even be worth he text in the codex.
MasterSlowPoke wrote:You realize that out of all the Necron releases, only the Flayed Ones have any skulls on the model, right? And those are actually appropriate.
I'm not counting Necron heads as those don't really count.
Well, Necrons are an army of metal skeletons, so not considering all Necrons is a bit much to ask. Beside that, the vehicles are full of coffin shapes, including the thrusters, the Monolith and Ghost Ark (the latter two inverted).
Ouze wrote:So, are Necrons actually IN November's WD? Or just on the back page, and they'll be in Decembers?
Hint: Have you ever seen a full battle report on the backpage of the WD?
Has anyone got a rough idea when they will b up for pre-order? I mean I have been lurking and waiting but no sign yet... perhaps one of the more learned rumor people could enlighten me?
Cheers: TTK
At the end of the battle report in the new WD, there is box of text which finishes of the Narrative battle just played. In it, Trazyn appears before Sicarius and tells him that Guilliman is an old friend, and that he plans to visit Mcragge very soon to take the frozen Primarch away as, and I quote "You don't deserve him."
Make of that what you will
Or maybe WD writers totally screwing with fluff by writing random crap about whatever they want.
Aandiin wrote:So i have preordered my new 'crons and i'm following this thread closely, but i can't believe we havn't seen any speculations about this bolded bit yet:
Trazyn the Infinite: He is a Necron who woke very early and is fascinated with studying and collecting history. His tomb world is filled with secret trinkets including (I quote) 'a giant of a man clad in baroque power armor'. He even will attack other Necron tomb worlds to capture artifacts from them that he doesn't think they deserve.
A necron lord with his very own Primarch? And if so...who is it? Jaghatai Khan, Leman Russ, Vulkan and Corax all currently missing/unknown status, not counting the traitors here 'cause most of them are now demon princes and accounted for...except maybe Alpharius/Omegon whoever is still alive of them IF one got killed by Roboute Guilliman. legions 2 and 11 are deleted from the imperial records so could be something from either of those....
Anyone have any wild speculations while we wait?
There was some talk about it early on. Anyway, nothing about that statement lends me to jump to the Primarch conclusion. ALL space marines are giants among men, and baroque power armor basicly just means that it's elaborate, which being a subjective term, really could belong to any important or well-decorated marine.
This guy is spot on.
I think Games Workshop clearly wrote it to imply that it's a Primarch - and therefore create hype/speculation like this - but to also leave it ambiguous so it can still be debated over. IIRC a similar thing occurs in the new DE 'dex.
I wouldn't think about it too much; I highly doubt an answer will ever be revealed.
Ouze wrote:Was the armor normal space marine size (10 feet tall) or primarch size (15 feet?)
I'm sure it has to Be Primarch size. Necrons are nearly space marine Height at like 9 Feet, so who would care if it was a 10 foot space marine? Of course only a Primarch would be a "giant of a man" to them. and Plus, who would care if he had a regular space marine captive? It wouldn't even be worth he text in the codex.
Well the specific mention of 'baroque power armor' says the figure is old - VERY OLD in Imperial terms. Modern Artificer Armors are often listed as 'Ornate' or some other term, but the Legionary Armors (MkI-MkIV?) are often described as 'Baroque.'
Actually me and a SW buddy theorize its Leman Russ. He cut a deal to suspend himself until the Wolftime... lol
My initial bet was on Vulcan. Think i remember some fluff about him hiding some artifacts away for his chapter to find and when they got them all he would return. (don't quote me on this, my memory isn't the strongest on this)
Could be related, could be totally unrelated....who knows.
But that part of the description of a necron lord is the best troll text in ages
FalkorsRaiders wrote:I am gonna go out on a limb and say this will be the build for the internet's "competetive build" for necrons at 2500points
snip arkspam list. I have done no math or play tests or anything, but I have a feeling it will be like this or at least with 4 warriors in ghosts and a filled out cryptek/lord royal court.
gorgon wrote:You guys need to start citing page numbers before you bring up fluff "rapeage".
There is to my knowledge nothing in the existing Necron codex that discusses Necron-Tyranid relationships. There's just the small bit of artwork on the back cover showing a hive fleet apparently avoiding Necrons. All the theories as to why this happened are strictly inventions of the customer base.
In addition to the back cover, this is also referenced in the Necron Codex on page 11, Tyranid Codex, page 11, Tyranid Codex, page 21. It's made explicit that they avoid necrons because there is no biomass for them to consume.
The Decapitator wrote:At the end of the battle report in the new WD, there is box of text which finishes of the Narrative battle just played. In it, Trazyn appears before Sicarius and tells him that Guilliman is an old friend, and that he plans to visit Mcragge very soon to take the frozen Primarch away as, and I quote "You don't deserve him."
Make of that what you will
Or maybe WD writers totally screwing with fluff by writing random crap about whatever they want.
Maybe it's like those trading card games the kids play at school with those football (soccer) cards.
1st 'Cron lord "I'll swap you a mint condition Roboute Guilliman for your Leman Russ."
2nd 'Cron Lord "Nah he's worth at least your Guilliman and a Rogal Dorn for his Attacks!"
Before you cry "cite!" take some heart that many people who play necrons (or like me, who play necrons and tyranids) actually know the books a bit...
Tyranid Codex: Page 11: Read Solemnce - Necron Tomb World.
"..tendrils of hive fleet Behemoth make major course corrections in order to avoid conflict with the necrons..."
Necron codex: back cover - Hive fleet avoiding necron tomb (the outsider tomb?)
It the tyranid codex is explicitly states (see page 6) that they consume "flesh and vegetation" (i.e. biomass).
Tyranids would have no concern for necrons, and actually, in a frightning turn, they would make the most amazing allies (well, before this new crap fluff); Ctan get all the souls, nids get all the bodies.
TheToastKing wrote:Has anyone got a rough idea when they will b up for pre-order? I mean I have been lurking and waiting but no sign yet... perhaps one of the more learned rumor people could enlighten me?
Cheers: TTK
TheToastKing wrote:Has anyone got a rough idea when they will b up for pre-order? I mean I have been lurking and waiting but no sign yet... perhaps one of the more learned rumor people could enlighten me?
Cheers: TTK
This saturday i was told.
That's the vibe I'm getting, might be worth a trip to Warhammer World this Saturday and see what the score is.
Before you cry "cite!" take some heart that many people who play necrons (or like me, who play necrons and tyranids) actually know the books a bit...
Tyranid Codex: Page 11: Read Solemnce - Necron Tomb World.
"..tendrils of hive fleet Behemoth make major course corrections in order to avoid conflict with the necrons..."
Necron codex: back cover - Hive fleet avoiding necron tomb (the outsider tomb?)
It the tyranid codex is explicitly states (see page 6) that they consume "flesh and vegetation" (i.e. biomass).
Tyranids would have no concern for necrons, and actually, in a frightning turn, they would make the most amazing allies (well, before this new crap fluff); Ctan get all the souls, nids get all the bodies.
Much love for saving me from looking through my nid codex again Knew I had read it. They would just have no reason to ever fight. In all honesty the nids wipe planets clean of life and move on. Sounds like there will be lots of empty real estate for an expanding necron empire. The necrons can probably calculate the path and plan of the hivemind as it is, if nothing else, far from random. They could easily keep some distance and swing in for some pimp new planets.
Edit: Its not that I am upset by the change I just thought it was a really neat piece of unique fluff. In a universe where previously evil machines decide to not kill red space marines because they helped them and crazy robots try to eat skin without having mouths and decide to wear it instead, it was a very logical piece of fluff that I really liked. I sort of imagined them sort of working together in a very distant way, avoiding eachother while purging planets of life. Oh well. You've got me again world.
Before you cry "cite!" take some heart that many people who play necrons (or like me, who play necrons and tyranids) actually know the books a bit...
Tyranid Codex: Page 11: Read Solemnce - Necron Tomb World.
"..tendrils of hive fleet Behemoth make major course corrections in order to avoid conflict with the necrons..."
Necron codex: back cover - Hive fleet avoiding necron tomb (the outsider tomb?)
It the tyranid codex is explicitly states (see page 6) that they consume "flesh and vegetation" (i.e. biomass).
Tyranids would have no concern for necrons, and actually, in a frightning turn, they would make the most amazing allies (well, before this new crap fluff); Ctan get all the souls, nids get all the bodies.
Stormlord night fight stuff sounds good. Yet I gotta ask. Just what ARE the Necron's own night fighting rules? Because it seems to me, that if they are not exactly like the DE latest codex rules, then night fighting your Necrons is a complete and total waist.
makubaka wrote:Stormlord night fight stuff sounds good. Yet I gotta ask. Just what ARE the Necron's own night fighting rules? Because it seems to me, that if they are not exactly like the DE latest codex rules, then night fighting your Necrons is a complete and total waist.
Are you talking about the ignoring nightfighting dealio? I believe the plan is to bring solar pulses to cancel out the nightfighting during your shooting and closing on gunlines in the dark.
Could it not be possible the Necron Dynasty attacked by Tyranids HAD living worlds in its empire? I mean as long as there's water, the right conditions, and enough time life is bound to turn up on its own. This happens much quicker if life is already present. Add to this meteors, terraforming aliens, and reality warping chaos gods, and it becomes likely that dead worlds in the 40k universe don't have to stay dead forever.
Leggy wrote:Could it not be possible the Necron Dynasty attacked by Tyranids HAD living worlds in its empire? I mean as long as there's water, the right conditions, and enough time life is bound to turn up on its own. This happens much quicker if life is already present. Add to this meteors, terraforming aliens, and reality warping chaos gods, and it becomes likely that dead worlds in the 40k universe don't have to stay dead forever.
They destroy everything down to bacteria. Their weapons literally strip the atoms apart in living things. Life is an obscenely complex thing requiring absolutely perfect conditions to begin. Once the planet is cleansed once, I doubt the necrons would leave an atmosphere meaning life can not exist there. If they did leave one I would assume its exceptionally inhospitable. I think if they have the ability and tech to destroy every molecule of life on a planet, they probably keep a running tab to see if more shows up. The whole destroying every fraction of life to its smallest possible form and then splitting the atoms of even them is probably not something that they wouldn't actively enforce.
Before you cry "cite!" take some heart that many people who play necrons (or like me, who play necrons and tyranids) actually know the books a bit...
Tyranid Codex: Page 11: Read Solemnce - Necron Tomb World.
"..tendrils of hive fleet Behemoth make major course corrections in order to avoid conflict with the necrons..."
Necron codex: back cover - Hive fleet avoiding necron tomb (the outsider tomb?)
It the tyranid codex is explicitly states (see page 6) that they consume "flesh and vegetation" (i.e. biomass).
Tyranids would have no concern for necrons, and actually, in a frightning turn, they would make the most amazing allies (well, before this new crap fluff); Ctan get all the souls, nids get all the bodies.
Much love for saving me from looking through my nid codex again Knew I had read it. They would just have no reason to ever fight. In all honesty the nids wipe planets clean of life and move on. Sounds like there will be lots of empty real estate for an expanding necron empire. The necrons can probably calculate the path and plan of the hivemind as it is, if nothing else, far from random. They could easily keep some distance and swing in for some pimp new planets.
Edit: Its not that I am upset by the change I just thought it was a really neat piece of unique fluff. In a universe where previously evil machines decide to not kill red space marines because they helped them and crazy robots try to eat skin without having mouths and decide to wear it instead, it was a very logical piece of fluff that I really liked. I sort of imagined them sort of working together in a very distant way, avoiding eachother while purging planets of life. Oh well. You've got me again world.
I can see the Necrons a the Tyranids fighting with this fulff. some oh the Necrons are looking for the perfiect bodys to put there soul in to. if the Hive runs around killing everything they destory one are more of the bodys the Necrons are looking for. With these Necrons in mind i can see a lot oh fighting between tham whan other overlords will use them as you say to grow the empires. with the way the the fluff is looking if can go both ways this could make them grate allies are worst enemies. I will need to read more of the fluff to see what is going to happen with that.
Before you cry "cite!" take some heart that many people who play necrons (or like me, who play necrons and tyranids) actually know the books a bit...
Tyranid Codex: Page 11: Read Solemnce - Necron Tomb World.
"..tendrils of hive fleet Behemoth make major course corrections in order to avoid conflict with the necrons..."
Necron codex: back cover - Hive fleet avoiding necron tomb (the outsider tomb?)
It the tyranid codex is explicitly states (see page 6) that they consume "flesh and vegetation" (i.e. biomass).
Tyranids would have no concern for necrons, and actually, in a frightning turn, they would make the most amazing allies (well, before this new crap fluff); Ctan get all the souls, nids get all the bodies.
Much love for saving me from looking through my nid codex again Knew I had read it. They would just have no reason to ever fight. In all honesty the nids wipe planets clean of life and move on. Sounds like there will be lots of empty real estate for an expanding necron empire. The necrons can probably calculate the path and plan of the hivemind as it is, if nothing else, far from random. They could easily keep some distance and swing in for some pimp new planets.
Edit: Its not that I am upset by the change I just thought it was a really neat piece of unique fluff. In a universe where previously evil machines decide to not kill red space marines because they helped them and crazy robots try to eat skin without having mouths and decide to wear it instead, it was a very logical piece of fluff that I really liked. I sort of imagined them sort of working together in a very distant way, avoiding eachother while purging planets of life. Oh well. You've got me again world.
I can see the Necrons a the Tyranids fighting with this fulff. some oh the Necrons are looking for the perfiect bodys to put there soul in to. if the Hive runs around killing everything they destory one are more of the bodys the Necrons are looking for. With these Necrons in mind i can see a lot oh fighting between tham whan other overlords will use them as you say to grow the empires. with the way the the fluff is looking if can go both ways this could make them grate allies are worst enemies. I will need to read more of the fluff to see what is going to happen with that.
I really want to respond to this but I really have no clue what you are saying. I think you are referring to the need the necrons have in terms of bodies. I would say a couple hundred bodies in tubes or however the necrons keep their livestock is not nearly enough reason to bring on an orbital assault of billions of nids.
The Decapitator wrote:At the end of the battle report in the new WD, there is box of text which finishes of the Narrative battle just played. In it, Trazyn appears before Sicarius and tells him that Guilliman is an old friend, and that he plans to visit Mcragge very soon to take the frozen Primarch away as, and I quote "You don't deserve him."
Make of that what you will
Trazyn is the one collecting giant people in baroque armour, so ... (and in German it is not old friend, but someone he knows from old times)
The Decapitator wrote:Or maybe WD writers totally screwing with fluff by writing random crap about whatever they want.
Well, Mat Ward participated in the battle report, so I guess you are right about writing random crap
The Decapitator wrote:At the end of the battle report in the new WD, there is box of text which finishes of the Narrative battle just played. In it, Trazyn appears before Sicarius and tells him that Guilliman is an old friend, and that he plans to visit Mcragge very soon to take the frozen Primarch away as, and I quote "You don't deserve him." Make of that what you will
Trazyn is the one collecting giant people in baroque armour, so ... (and in German it is not old friend, but someone he knows from old times)
The Decapitator wrote:Or maybe WD writers totally screwing with fluff by writing random crap about whatever they want.
Well, Mat Ward participated in the battle report, so I guess you are right about writing random crap
I bet that there is gonna be hyperbole very soon, something that goes allong the lines of "OMG! Matt Ward made Guilleman the Necrons spiritual liege/best friends!" or something stupid like that.
In the the fluff that's been released so far on the new Necron codex, it's been said that the Silent King is vehemently anti-Tyranid due to the fact that he wants awesome new bodies to transfer back into once the Necron empire is re-established. So there is a reason right there for the Necrons to ally anyone(Looking at you, Blood Angels!) against he Nids and even go out of their way to attack them if only to stop them from eating more Space Marine bodies. Those look like mighty fine vessels for any Necron Lord, no?
Now, there is no evidence to look at that says the Nid fleets are dying of old age or anything, however, the scout fleets may not be big enough as they are to take on everything in the galaxy without taking on new resources. Perhaps the Tyranids have now gained enough ground in the galaxy to go ahead and kill off a few Tomb Worlds even if it means expending resources they can't get back to do so.
The Hive Mind surely knows that the Necrons are not going to just let them eat everything, and so it's going to have to deal with them eventually. Maybe that time is now? Plus I'm sure if the Hive Mind ever learned of the Celestial Orrery, it'd really go nuts trying to kill every single Tomb World it could find.
Before you cry "cite!" take some heart that many people who play necrons (or like me, who play necrons and tyranids) actually know the books a bit...
Tyranid Codex: Page 11: Read Solemnce - Necron Tomb World.
"..tendrils of hive fleet Behemoth make major course corrections in order to avoid conflict with the necrons..."
Necron codex: back cover - Hive fleet avoiding necron tomb (the outsider tomb?)
It the tyranid codex is explicitly states (see page 6) that they consume "flesh and vegetation" (i.e. biomass).
Tyranids would have no concern for necrons, and actually, in a frightning turn, they would make the most amazing allies (well, before this new crap fluff); Ctan get all the souls, nids get all the bodies.
Plenty reasons. An Imperial world is under attack by necrons and nids show up. Necrons have to fight to escape, nids want the biomass, hilarity insues. Nids know that the Necrons also strip all worlds of life therefore they are a threat to the hive fleets ability to feed and wage a campaign ie Hive Fleet Leviathan was slowed to a crawl because Kryptmann exterminatus every world in the fleets path, it would be a strategic liability to be fighting the Imperium and also have necrons culling their 'food'. Therefore they probably would attack a tomb world to nip it in the bud if it threatened the harvest. Given that the nids aren't just a swarm of locusts and are capable of strategic thinking then the necrons are an obvious threat. Also the necrons could just hate the nids like they hate all life and just consider them weeds worthy of extermination; if you can't die then acting out of hate isn't that far fetched.
SoulGazer wrote:In the the fluff that's been released so far on the new Necron codex, it's been said that the Silent King is vehemently anti-Tyranid due to the fact that he wants awesome new bodies to transfer back into once the Necron empire is re-established. So there is a reason right there for the Necrons to ally anyone(Looking at you, Blood Angels!) against he Nids and even go out of their way to attack them if only to stop them from eating more Space Marine bodies. Those look like mighty fine vessels for any Necron Lord, no?
Now, there is no evidence to look at that says the Nid fleets are dying of old age or anything, however, the scout fleets may not be big enough as they are to take on everything in the galaxy without taking on new resources. Perhaps the Tyranids have now gained enough ground in the galaxy to go ahead and kill off a few Tomb Worlds even if it means expending resources they can't get back to do so.
The Hive Mind surely knows that the Necrons are not going to just let them eat everything, and so it's going to have to deal with them eventually. Maybe that time is now? Plus I'm sure if the Hive Mind ever learned of the Celestial Orrery, it'd really go nuts trying to kill every single Tomb World it could find.
It seems like (at least from what I've been able to piece together in my infinite wisdom) that the biotransfer is centralized around that one IC. I doubt that many of the tombworlds have scientists or crypteks on the scale of him. Why go through the difficulty of capturing your livestock when you can breed it in captivity. For all we know, the necrons could possess purer SM genetic lines than they do! Keeping a couple superhumans around wouldnt be too hard and it would not be enough to bring on a nid attack.
Plenty reasons. An Imperial world is under attack by necrons and nids show up. Necrons have to fight to escape, nids want the biomass, hilarity insues. Nids know that the Necrons also strip all worlds of life therefore they are a threat to the hive fleets ability to feed and wage a campaign ie Hive Fleet Leviathan was slowed to a crawl because Kryptmann exterminatus every world in the fleets path, it would be a strategic liability to be fighting the Imperium and also have necrons culling their 'food'. Therefore they probably would attack a tomb world to nip it in the bud if it threatened the harvest. Given that the nids aren't just a swarm of locusts and are capable of strategic thinking then the necrons are an obvious threat. Also the necrons could just hate the nids like they hate all life and just consider them weeds worthy of extermination; if you can't die then acting out of hate isn't that far fetched.
Yeah but you are missing the fact that the codex specifically states that it doesnt happen. Tyranids essentially couldn't attack a tombworld. There is no biomass to reinforce troops and they wont even be able to use the dead nids as the gauss weapons destroy things at an atomic level. they would literally have one shot, the initial assault against a world full of tunnels and tombs and troops who phase out and repair. Fluff wise, it just wouldnt happen.
Hox wrote:It seems like (at least from what I've been able to piece together in my infinite wisdom) that the biotransfer is centralized around that one IC. I doubt that many of the tombworlds have scientists or crypteks on the scale of him. Why go through the difficulty of capturing your livestock when you can breed it in captivity. For all we know, the necrons could possess purer SM genetic lines than they do! Keeping a couple superhumans around wouldnt be too hard and it would not be enough to bring on a nid attack.
Well, the Primarchs were created partly through sorcery, and their genetic materiel was passed down to the Space Marines. Knowing that, it's entirely possible that the Necrons will never be able to fully understand how to create pure-strain Astartes due to them being at least partially warp-based. It would be very interesting to see them at least attempt to create Space Marine bodies from the gene-seed of the (possible)captured Primarch they have. Would make for an interesting novel or two, at least.
I have a question on the Command Barge, if it is engaged in combat, can the Lord strike back at the attackers? And can you immediately disengage in the following movement phase like other vehicles?
So, as a person who actually plays my necrons...(as opposed to putting them on the shelf for the last several years) this codex brings mixed feelings.
(I do not play them as often as I play my tau (yes, I am a glutton for punishment), I do try to play my crons about once a month at least).
As a lot of this is quite subjective, but I would love for any other necron players to chime in (especially if you have been facing 5th edition armies).
Phase out: While I am happy its gone, it was a kind of unique necron thing. I have also noticed that it is actually fairly rare. Most players lack the discipline needed to accomplish it; what I mean is they easily get distracted by monoliths, wraiths or ctan...instead of just ignoring them an pummeling the warriors. While I am sure top competitive players may know to focus on it, in most FLGS and local games, I have actually one been phased out very very few times (<3 over a year).
WBB:
I felt this was one of the "signature" traits of the Necrons. With it being only 5+ now (yes, I know you might be able to fit a resorb in a list), I see it as almost a side effect rather than a "theme" so to speak. Kind of like acid blood or regeneration on nids...sure it nice when it happens, but its nothing prevalent.
CC:
While I was always ok with my warriors being as bad as tau in close combat, it felt made up for by the better save (3+) and WBB...this at least gave them longevity...kind of like its hard to put down a group of zombies..... Also, one or our few CC stars were wraiths...part of that being their initiative...if indeed this has been reduced to a 2 (I shudder) this dramatically reduces their effectiveness...yes, rending and an extra wound (did I read that right?) will be nice, but 3++ saves can still fail, especially with the volume of attacks other good CC units can put out.
The monolith;
While I think that living metal was a bit powerful (especially against nids...that was just mean) it overall felt offset by the fact that they did not have any long range attacks and were very slow. Now, while still av14, with the weapons being relatively short, I fear they will be melta bait. Also, while the vacuum gate is nice, the majority of time you will want to suck up those pesky marines (thunderhammers, powerfists) before they hit your monolith...and marines pass a STR test 66% of the time.
Finally, the ability to pull squads out of CC felt like another necron unique ability, and helped make some of their lack of CC more useful and presented many tactical options.
Warscythes
Remember when invulnerable saves were rare? (well, they still are for non marine armies). The warscythe was a great equalizer against those really nasty storm shield termies.
Alas, it has be replaced by a powersword with a 2x hammer hand. I would have taken the +2 int personally (apparently only GK know how to use polearms - thanks matt).
CTAN
I loved the ctan...while not easy to use in this edition with its pleathora of las cannons, missile launchers, melta's and autocannons, they were just a presence on the battlefield.
I have already commented on how pathetically bad and completely unnecessary the fluff changes were, but lets get other points.
Save: a 4++ save is still only 50%. I really hope they have a 2+ or 3+ as well, but fear they don't (130 point dread knight anyone?).
They will be missile/las/melta fodder, and with the toughness reduction, autocannons as well.
People said they were not equal to gods, but one ability they had did put the fear of them in marines everywhere: ignoring invuls. this was a truly terrifying ability.
I mourn this loss. Hopefully some of the new abilities will return them to their former "feeling". Only time will tell.
Teleporting:
While I get the need for a vehicle on the table (both for "normalness" of play and the need for gw to sell models), I would have preferred the ghost arks to be mobile teleportal pads or something. But fluff aside, I will try to embrace the ghost ark. I am hoping this does not turn us into another "mech" army.
I love some of the new abilities, and think there will be a lot of options out there, but do have a few concerns over mono builds (i.e. stormlords).
The new army, even with the doomsday ark (drifting sucks, ask vindicator players) it does not feel very "shooty". but on the same token it does not feel very "CC" either.
Perhaps it is a perfect balance? Only time will tell, while it is impossible to truly tell until we get some games in, experienced players can make some reasonable deductions.
So, is this a rant? Not exactly. Its more of "hey, some of the defining elements seem to be gone..." from one of my favorite armies.
Will they still feel like necrons? I am not sure.
makubaka wrote:Stormlord night fight stuff sounds good. Yet I gotta ask. Just what ARE the Necron's own night fighting rules? Because it seems to me, that if they are not exactly like the DE latest codex rules, then night fighting your Necrons is a complete and total waist.
Are you talking about the ignoring nightfighting dealio? I believe the plan is to bring solar pulses to cancel out the nightfighting during your shooting and closing on gunlines in the dark.
DE don't ignore NF. Yet everything worth a damn that shoots, including vehicles have night vision. Other codexs have the same or something close as well. So unless the Necrons can shoot in the dark somehow someway then the Stormlord being able to keep nightfight up is just another expensive gamble that makes an HQ sound cool.
Plenty reasons. An Imperial world is under attack by necrons and nids show up. Necrons have to fight to escape, nids want the biomass, hilarity insues. Nids know that the Necrons also strip all worlds of life therefore they are a threat to the hive fleets ability to feed and wage a campaign ie Hive Fleet Leviathan was slowed to a crawl because Kryptmann exterminatus every world in the fleets path, it would be a strategic liability to be fighting the Imperium and also have necrons culling their 'food'. Therefore they probably would attack a tomb world to nip it in the bud if it threatened the harvest. Given that the nids aren't just a swarm of locusts and are capable of strategic thinking then the necrons are an obvious threat. Also the necrons could just hate the nids like they hate all life and just consider them weeds worthy of extermination; if you can't die then acting out of hate isn't that far fetched.
Yeah but you are missing the fact that the codex specifically states that it doesnt happen. Tyranids essentially couldn't attack a tombworld. There is no biomass to reinforce troops and they wont even be able to use the dead nids as the gauss weapons destroy things at an atomic level. they would literally have one shot, the initial assault against a world full of tunnels and tombs and troops who phase out and repair. Fluff wise, it just wouldnt happen.
Of course it could, the hive fleet is near limitless and biomass can also be lost from flamers, explosive weapons etc. They're a big threat and the codex references to this is supposed to emphasise how much of a threat the necrons are percieved to be; not that they do not fight. Also the nids don't, for the most part, reinforce troops untill a conflict has ended when the world is harvested. The self repair machines could be disabled by infiltrator units or they could even flood the tunnels with bio-acid; the nid codex points out that they can fight in unorthadox ways to adapt to a new challenge.
Hox wrote:It seems like (at least from what I've been able to piece together in my infinite wisdom) that the biotransfer is centralized around that one IC. I doubt that many of the tombworlds have scientists or crypteks on the scale of him. Why go through the difficulty of capturing your livestock when you can breed it in captivity. For all we know, the necrons could possess purer SM genetic lines than they do! Keeping a couple superhumans around wouldnt be too hard and it would not be enough to bring on a nid attack.
Well, the Primarchs were created partly through sorcery, and their genetic materiel was passed down to the Space Marines. Knowing that, it's entirely possible that the Necrons will never be able to fully understand how to create pure-strain Astartes due to them being at least partially warp-based. It would be very interesting to see them at least attempt to create Space Marine bodies from the gene-seed of the (possible)captured Primarch they have. Would make for an interesting novel or two, at least.
Somebody needs to write this story. Is there someone we can tell this to? Or beat repeatedly until they agree?
Of course it could, the hive fleet is near limitless and biomass can also be lost from flamers, explosive weapons etc. They're a big threat and the codex references to this is supposed to emphasise how much of a threat the necrons are percieved to be; not that they do not fight. Also the nids don't, for the most part, reinforce troops untill a conflict has ended when the world is harvested. The self repair machines could be disabled by infiltrator units or they could even flood the tunnels with bio-acid; the nid codex points out that they can fight in unorthadox ways to adapt to a new challenge.
Yes they do. They constantly hatch billions of units on the planets surface using spawning pools they create from the planets biomass. No biomass, no reinforcements. The tyranid advantage is the endless swarm. Take the swarm away and you have something far less frightening. Im not saying it could never happen. Im just saying the chances of nids winning is slim to none and if they did, it would be the exact opposite of effective. The necrons dont get scared like a regular race. Scary genestealers, meet even scarier giant half terminator half robot snakes with enormous claws. "Oh hey, no biomass to harvest, no foreseeable reinforcements of any kind, even scarier monsters than us and robots powered by the fragments of GODS that this race has managed to kill because they are that badass? Lets get up in that planet for sure".
Edit: Oh and they can go back in time. Pretty sure going back in time is the hard counter to any attack ever. "Oh goodness they flooded our tunnels" "Oh crap, brb. To the time machine!". And after a journey to the land of 10 minutes ago, 5 million warriors are waiting in the right place. Nbd.
@ Dave
I understand your frustrations about the new codex as I am also current Necron player, I play them about twice a month at least.
Wraiths: Yes they lost their I6 but they gained the equipment to reduce others to I1 in CC. I think with their extra wound and rending they will become a very versatile unit.
WBB: Again, it went down to 5+, BUT is now not negated by power weapons which is something I've been killed a whole lot now because of all my GK friends. Put the warriors in a transport, add a lord with an orb and think you'll have a really tough troop choice there.
I'm trying my best not to get too excited or disappointed till I have that codex in my hand (which I'm sure I'll be at my local shop hogging it for a few hours). In the end though, I think most of it will just be growing pains and we'll come out being a fun army to play.
makubaka wrote:Stormlord night fight stuff sounds good. Yet I gotta ask. Just what ARE the Necron's own night fighting rules? Because it seems to me, that if they are not exactly like the DE latest codex rules, then night fighting your Necrons is a complete and total waist.
Are you talking about the ignoring nightfighting dealio? I believe the plan is to bring solar pulses to cancel out the nightfighting during your shooting and closing on gunlines in the dark.
DE don't ignore NF. Yet everything worth a damn that shoots, including vehicles have night vision. Other codexs have the same or something close as well. So unless the Necrons can shoot in the dark somehow someway then the Stormlord being able to keep nightfight up is just another expensive gamble that makes an HQ sound cool.
The Solar Pulse that Crypteks can take, Removes the Night fighting on the Necrons turn or places it on the enemy turn depending on when you use it. So yes, Necrons can shoot in the Dark. Night Vision doesn't guarantee they'll get a good roll, just increases the chance a bit.
Chances are, even with a reroll, it's still going to cripple a lot of an enemies shooting. This isn't counting his 4+ to Seize, and his other abilities.
I'm trying my best not to get too excited or disappointed till I have that codex in my hand (which I'm sure I'll be at my local shop hogging it for a few hours).
Actually you wont be hogging it in the store for a few hours unfourtunatly. I just talked with a manager at my FLGS and he said that GW has stopped sending out preview codexes to stores, and their will only be the released dexes, you know, the ones you can purchase strait up. But he gave me some good news too, he said theres no street date for the relese, that means when it arives in the store, he can sell it. and he said that it could arive as soon as next wensday. so heres hopeing it gets here as soon as possible!
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against people.
