FalkorsRaiders wrote:List for Zhandrekh and Obryon at 2500 points:

-HQ-
Zhandrekh+Obryon (since i coundn't find how much they cost in points, gonna say they cost 300 points)

It was mentioned here either in revisions or a post after it a few days back that togeather they are still cheaper then The Storm Lord, but not by much. Since hes 250 id guess both of them as 230-240

http://www.ftwgames.net/

FTW Games

On sale today. Wonder whats in here....

TheDivineKira wrote:

Swara wrote:


I'm trying my best not to get too excited or disappointed till I have that codex in my hand (which I'm sure I'll be at my local shop hogging it for a few hours).

Actually you wont be hogging it in the store for a few hours unfourtunatly. I just talked with a manager at my FLGS and he said that GW has stopped sending out preview codexes to stores, and their will only be the released dexes, you know, the ones you can purchase strait up. But he gave me some good news too, he said theres no street date for the relese, that means when it arives in the store, he can sell it. and he said that it could arive as soon as next wensday. so heres hopeing it gets here as soon as possible!

Well, that's good and bad news I suppose, thanks for letting me know though!

Totalwar1402 wrote:

davethepak wrote:Tyranids and Necrons...

Before you cry "cite!" take some heart that many people who play necrons (or like me, who play necrons and tyranids) actually know the books a bit...

Plenty reasons. An Imperial world is under attack by necrons and nids show up. Necrons have to fight to escape...

Woah there. Necrons have to what? The masters of teleportation that can cross whole star systems and move monoliths, plylons and whole starships?
(necron codex: page 56 and 57).

These ain't your fathers marines who need low orbit...these are the masters of phasing technology these are....um...nerfed robots who now need transports?
(boot to the head).

Anyway, enough talk about necrons and nids; its really low quality writing that all. I prefer to think of it as some elaborate long term deceiver plot.

Lets talk about mobility. So, lots of the old units were really mobile (move as jet bike), and while they are still jump troops...thats fairly a big difference.

the army does not feel as mobile...with the doomsday ark not being able to move (its pretty gimped when moving) to the lack of jetbikes (tomblades? stats please?).

However, maybe the new flying skimmers will change this? or will they be too fragile?

Overall thoughts about mobility of this new army?

davethepak wrote:

Totalwar1402 wrote:

davethepak wrote:Tyranids and Necrons...

Before you cry "cite!" take some heart that many people who play necrons (or like me, who play necrons and tyranids) actually know the books a bit...

Plenty reasons. An Imperial world is under attack by necrons and nids show up. Necrons have to fight to escape...

Woah there. Necrons need what? The masters of teleportation that can cross whole star systems and move monoliths, plylons and whole starships need what?
(necron codex: page 56 and 57).

These ain't your fathers marines who need low orbit...these are the masters of phasing technology these are....um...nerfed robots who now need transports?
(boot to the head).

Anyway, enough talk about necrons and nids; its really low quality writing that all. I prefer to think of it as some elaborate long term deceiver plot.

Lets talk about mobility. So, lots of the old units were really mobile (move as jet bike), and while they are still jump troops...thats fairly a big difference.

the army does not feel as mobile...with the doomsday ark not being able to move (its pretty gimped when moving) to the lack of jetbikes (tomblades? stats please?).

However, maybe the new flying skimmers will change this? or will they be too fragile?

Overall thoughts about mobility of this new army?

Far more mobile than it used to be. At least in terms of the amount of units that can move quickly. I think the nightscythes (I think thats the name) will add a lot in terms of mobility. Now that we found out that the shielding lasts until pen (not glance) I think you can be expected to be a little more ballsy with the arks and barges. Its kind of moved away from the lumbering horde to a faster moving force. Lots of new jump infantry to play with. But seriously lets talk about the best kind of movement. The kind that goes through time. Anyone else picturing an enemy IC being born/created and a necron warping into the room, falcon punching them to death and then phasing out?

Bad post sorry.

Swara wrote:@ Dave
I understand your frustrations about the new codex as I am also current Necron player, I play them about twice a month at least.

Wraiths: Yes they lost their I6 but they gained the equipment to reduce others to I1 in CC. I think with their extra wound and rending they will become a very versatile unit.

WBB: Again, it went down to 5+, BUT is now not negated by power weapons which is something I've been killed a whole lot now because of all my GK friends. Put the warriors in a transport, add a lord with an orb and think you'll have a really tough troop choice there.

I'm trying my best not to get too excited or disappointed till I have that codex in my hand (which I'm sure I'll be at my local shop hogging it for a few hours). In the end though, I think most of it will just be growing pains and we'll come out being a fun army to play.

@Swara; thanks for responding!

Excellent point on the coils, I will have to use them (hmm...how to model them on my 9 existing wraiths...guitar string maybe?).
The only drawback here is that its ONLY units in base to base (if like lashwhips), and well, any wargear that is almost mandatory is really just a point increase.
So...wraiths are 50 points now? Well, to be honest, I would pay that for rending and a second wound....

Good point on GK power weapons, I usually a destroyer lord with a rezorb near my units so in my experience this has not been a huge deal.
(ok, I did get one warrior squad munched this way). The radius of the Orb was VERY nice...I will miss it.

I am not sure about putting a lord/cryptek in a transport. I think that if I get a rezorb, its going in a squad of preatorians or lychguard...warriors are just too weak in CC in my opinion. Sure, maybe as a tarpit, especially if the ark can regen d3 of them a turn.
I have to say, just like the old monolith teleportal tricks, this may bring new tactical opportunities, and for me, that part is exciting!

I really want to know more about the walker thing, the ctan powers (oh, deceiver how I miss thee), the jetbikes and the fighters.

I have to say...my first impression is that the ghost ark is way overcosted...but perhaps I am weighing too much that a single lucky shot will get past the quantum shielding.

I too am trying to keep a very positive outlook on my chrome legions (my guys are all chrome, terminator style...yeah, its cliche, but I like it).
I did sell large chunks of my army (about 1000 points worth, but still have about 3000) as I had a feeling I would not need as many destoryers or warriors (I had 60).

Hmmm... I think will make new post about army and model changes....

anyway, thanks for your perspective...

Philld77 wrote:Bad Photo shop WD382 is the October Issue so there is some jiggery pokery going on here!

Seriously? I guess White Dwarf should fire the guy who does their covers because apparently the real covers look like "bad Photoshop".

Assuming that comment was not a really bad intentional joke, this photo is of the cover of the November issue of White Dwarf. And issue numbers in the US and UK have been offset by one for years. In other words, the same issue in both countries has an issue number that differs by one.

Philld77 wrote:
Bad Photo shop WD382 is the October Issue so there is some jiggery pokery going on here!

You are aware that you're not right about this, right?

White Dwarf 381

Inside this month's issue:

Death on the Ocean Waves: Phil Kelly enthuses about the story behind Dreadfleet and talks to Andy about the game. We also take a closer look at all the great stuff that you get in the box.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ninja'd by BrassScorpion.

TheToastKing wrote:Has anyone got a rough idea when they will b up for pre-order? I mean I have been lurking and waiting but no sign yet... perhaps one of the more learned rumor people could enlighten me?
Cheers: TTK

I don't know how it is in England but here in the States I was able to pre-order my Necrons on Monday from my LGS and you can pre-order on TheWarStore.com right now. I'd give your LGS a call and see if you can pre-order.

BrassScorpion wrote:

philld77 wrote:Bad Photo shop WD382 is the October Issue so there is some jiggery pokery going on here!

Seriously? I guess White Dwarf should fire the guy who does their covers because apparently the real covers look like "bad photoshop".

Assuming that comment was not a really bad intentional joke, this photo is of the cover of the November issue of White Dwarf. And issue numbers in the US and UK have been offset by one for years. In other words, the same issue in both countries has an issue number that differs by one.

pretre wrote:

Philld77 wrote:
Bad Photo shop WD382 is the October Issue so there is some jiggery pokery going on here!

You are aware that you're not right about this, right?

White Dwarf 381

Inside this month's issue:

Death on the Ocean Waves: Phil Kelly enthuses about the story behind Dreadfleet and talks to Andy about the game. We also take a closer look at all the great stuff that you get in the box.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ninja'd by BrassScorpion.

Oops Sorry didn't know that about the 1 down thing my mistake , in that case I apologise, and will edit my post.

Has anyone got a rough idea when they will b up for pre-order?

I've lost count of how many times I've posted this info.

Pre-orders go up on the GW website just after midnight on Friday night GMT (i.e., early Saturday morning in the UK). That's around 7 PM Eastern Time in the US. Release is one week later on the following Saturday. This is how the system has worked since May of this year. Independent retailers may already be taking orders.

pretre wrote:

"They BELONG in a museum!"

"So do YOU!"

Automatically Appended Next Post:

str00dles1 wrote:

FalkorsRaiders wrote:List for Zhandrekh and Obryon at 2500 points:

-HQ-
Zhandrekh+Obryon (since i coundn't find how much they cost in points, gonna say they cost 300 points)

It was mentioned here either in revisions or a post after it a few days back that togeather they are still cheaper then The Storm Lord, but not by much. Since hes 250 id guess both of them as 230-240

According to Yakface, together, they are MORE than Stormlord. That doesn't mean that each of them is in the 230-240 point range. 300 for the pair seems reasonable given that a normal lord is in the 45-85 range and an Overlord on a Barge is running 210. Given that Obryon will be a BEAST in CC (can't wait to see him rip apart a unit of Terminators), I expect him to be more than a normal lord. I expect him to run about the same as the Overlord because he won't be able to take a Royal Court or fill the HQ slot.

Ouze wrote:

gorgon wrote:You guys need to start citing page numbers before you bring up fluff "rapeage".

There is to my knowledge nothing in the existing Necron codex that discusses Necron-Tyranid relationships. There's just the small bit of artwork on the back cover showing a hive fleet apparently avoiding Necrons. All the theories as to why this happened are strictly inventions of the customer base.

In addition to the back cover, this is also referenced in the Necron Codex on page 11, Tyranid Codex, page 11, Tyranid Codex, page 21. It's made explicit that they avoid necrons because there is no biomass for them to consume.

Don't have my codex with me, but it doesn't say "why," does it? And there's nothing about anti-psyker stuff repelling the Tyranids, right? Hence my reply to the earlier posts.

Hox wrote:
Much love for saving me from looking through my nid codex again Knew I had read it. They would just have no reason to ever fight.

The tomb world has large sub-surface water reserves, like in several moons in our own solar system. Done.

i don't have my codex on-hand, but does it ever specify if Tyranids avoid active/unactive Tomb Worlds, or just Tomb Worlds in general? the bit about 'nids destroying one of the Necron Empires didn't say they were awake (but it didn't say they weren't), but not all Tomb Worlds are also Dead Worlds, and an unactivated Tomb World may still have some resources on it -- Damnos was habitable, and it was a Tomb World (i'm going on 5ed rulebook information for this, since i've yet to read FoD) , and there's an entry somewhere about Tyranids attacking a Tau-controlled planet that had Necrons in its moon, so they may go after a Necron planet if they aren't totally awake yet, or if there are still some gains to be made.

still, though, we haven't seen the entire entry yet, so it's still up in the air until the codex drops!

Alright, am I reading this correctly that QS only functions on Front and Side armor? I was feeling all cool that even in CC, it'd take a str 8 attack to pop the shields. (Against my friend that runs Ork Kopta's, it was a welcomed relief)

Really, judging by the lack of backlash from indignant 'cron fans once again threatening to sell their armies, it makes me wonder if I was reading it wrong the whole time.

Just curious but is this one of the largest threads in dakka history or are all the soon to be released rumor threads this size?

No images of Tomb Spiders old or new style (if there is one) in the November White Dwarf. My suspicion is that they're currently in limbo awaiting a new kit in the next release wave. It will be interesting to see if the codex has photos of old or new TS models or whether they stick to artwork.

kellymatthew37 wrote:Just curious but is this one of the largest threads in dakka history or are all the soon to be released rumor threads this size?

No, and almost...

kellymatthew37 wrote:Just curious but is this one of the largest threads in dakka history or are all the soon to be released rumor threads this size?

Looks like the "rebuilding mantis warriors" thread is the largest. Over twice the size of this thread.

Kevin949 wrote:

kellymatthew37 wrote:Just curious but is this one of the largest threads in dakka history or are all the soon to be released rumor threads this size?

Looks like the "rebuilding mantis warriors" thread is the largest.

It's not...

So, now that we have seen pics, and read stats (pre-codex, but decent), lets talk about what model changes people who have armies are going to make.

For me, it started with me selling off some of my surplus necrons, or what I perceived to be surplus. Also, I have included some of my new wargear/conversion thoughts.

Ctan
I kept both, hoping I will use them. I doubt I will need a third, we shall see. They are on 40mm bases, so I am curious if the new ones are on 60mm.
If the new guys are on 60mm bases, I may get around to converting them...we will see. How many of you will change yours?

Lords
I have two on foot, and two destroyer lords. I may have to scounge up some arms, as I don't know if I will always run rez orbs anymore.
If I read it correctly, destroyer lords can get tachy arrows, if these don't suck, I may see what I can come up with for them from my bits box.
A lot of the other wargear, will have to see if they are modeled or not, may either scratch build them, or try to pick up some bits on ebay.
Your thoughts? You buying new ones? Converting old ones?

Warriors:
I sold about 24 of my 60+ warriors, as well, I had a lot. I also thought if they got a new weapon sprue I might want a new box just for the upgrade parts.
In looking at things, this may have been a mistake...as it sounds like there may not be any new weapons for them. Oh well, got 46 left...can always get more.
So, you keeping your warriors? Getting more? Selling some now that you can use immortals? Any plans?

Immortals:
I kept all 20 of my immortals, as I am planning on just taking some of the parts from the immortal/deathmark kit to upgrade.
We will see if I need more. I am saddened by the huge nerf of the immortal weapon, its like only Ward's GK get strom bolters...
If you have immortals, will you be buying more?

Scarabs:
Only have a dozen...will try to scounge up a few more....very excited about them.

Pariahs
Decided to not sell mine. Almost never ran them, but planning on trying to convert them to Crypteks. Similar to the lords, will have to see if any of the wargear is modeled.
If I end up continiously running a couple of versions, I may try to model them.
Anyone else keep theirs, or sell them off?

Flayed Ones
Sold them all. I thought they were crap before, and not too impressed now. Too many other good choices in that slot. If worse comes to worse, I have a feeling I can get more on ebay. So, flayed one thoughts? Anyone buying any? Anyone keep their old ones?

Destroyers
I had a lot...and most of my heavies were magnitized so they could be both. I sold off most of my destroyers, and I think I am down to about 12 (3 normal, 9 heavy/normal). Once I confirm the new unit size is 1-3, I am selling the other 3 normal destroyers. Will see if they come with any other wargear options, but I doubt it.
While I love destroyers, I found in the last six months or so, that I favor a wraith wing army more than massed destroyers.
Anyone else selling or magnitizing destroyers?

Wraiths
I have nine of these guys, and love them. I have always hoped for rending or a power weapon option...and it pains me if they lost initiative . it sounds like the new whip will be a "Must have" pieace of wargear, which basically means that their cost is base+whip and I have to get as many into base to base as possible in CC!
Will prolly model them with the whips, maybe using guitar string or some kind of wire, not sure. If the other weapons are good, may try to get as bits, and maybe magnitize to the shoulders perhaps? The hands might not be easy to mag to. Of course, I doubt I will ever run 9 again, so I might just do one or two models with the new weapons on them. Not sure. So, what are your plans for wraiths? New ones? Converting? What would make a whip out of?

Tomb Spyders
Have two, kept them both. Almost picked up a third recently, but wanted to wait on the new dex.
Depending on how the new model looks, I may get another of the old ones, or sell mine and get all new ones.
I magnitized the arms on one, so I can make new parts (or buy bits) if need be.
Anyone else planning anything with spiders? Converting? Selling, etc?

Monolith
I have two. Now sure if I will ever use them both again (I borrowed a third for bigger games). I am however, considering repainting them, and maybe adding some cool effects.
Heck, I don't know if I will use one. The new flyer transport might be my new favorite. Have no idea. Will have to see. It feels like everything got MORE expensive in the new codex (except warriors). I am REALLY glad I did not pick up a third now. Any monolith plans?

Tomb Stalker
I love this guy. I am very upset he is not in the codex, I mean, really gw? Really? How about supporting those who have been supporting you? Yeah, I know the bureaucratic crap of the units being separate, but know what, customers don't care about your internal bad business decisions, they just want to use the things they spent money on.
If the new walker thing comes on a big base like that, I will just use him for the new scorpion walker. If the thing is really tall however, I may have to adjust mine, so people don't way I am trying to get cover advantages. I don't know if I can bring myself to putting a cryptek on his back however. Not sure. I have not see his stats in the new IA book yet (just ordered it yesterday) so I don't know if he is any good as a tomb stalker anymore. SO, anyone else have a tombstalker, and if so, what are your plans for it?

Ok, so that's what I got, and what I am doing with it.
I have already ordered several of the new boxes, and will make more decisions as the dex comes out, and I get some games in.

So, what are you doing with your necron army?

EDIT: Missed a question.

I wouldn't stress too much about the Tomb Stalker not being in the codex. People seem to be getting quite irate these days that just because the odd FW kit (e.g. Pirahna, Valkyrie) has made the cross over into the 40K proper, that all FW stuff isn't doing the same.

davethepak wrote:

So, what are you doing with your necron army?

Sold most of mine in August, good idea too as it seems that Destroyer Wing (I'm going to miss my 15 destroyers and 9 heavy destroyers they were so much fun) is no longer a viable army list and I had WAY too many warriors (100-110) and now I think I'll be more focused on an Immortal Troop Core. Also kinda glad I got rid of my Monolith, just isn't the same anymore... Now I'm think of a Praetorian/Lycheguard and Scarab/Wraith wing army with maybe one or two Doomsday Arks. And then probably get full Royal courts for larger battles as I can see that being a potential death star unit of sorts... at the least be a massive pain in the butt (and since I do enjoy playing Apoc battles, probably played more Apoc battles than anything else).

Flashman wrote:I wouldn't stress too much about the Tomb Stalker not being in the codex. People seem to be getting quite irate these days that just because the odd FW kit (e.g. Pirahna, Valkyrie) has made the cross over into the 40K proper, that all FW stuff isn't doing the same.

Remember with Imperial Armour Apoc 2 they have units labeled (APOCALYPSE) and others labeled (WARHAMMER 40000)

IronfrontAlex wrote:

Flashman wrote:I wouldn't stress too much about the Tomb Stalker not being in the codex. People seem to be getting quite irate these days that just because the odd FW kit (e.g. Pirahna, Valkyrie) has made the cross over into the 40K proper, that all FW stuff isn't doing the same.

Remember with Imperial Armour Apoc 2 they have units labeled (APOCALYPSE) and others labeled (WARHAMMER 40000)

While yes, this does, however, some people may still have a problem with the unit, and if not in the codex it may still be overcosted, AND I doubt most tourneys will be allowing units from that book....

Still, my death bug will much marine hiney as much as possible!

davethepak wrote:
Flayed Ones
Sold them all. I thought they were crap before, and not too impressed now. Too many other good choices in that slot. If worse comes to worse, I have a feeling I can get more on ebay. So, flayed one thoughts? Anyone buying any? Anyone keep their old ones?

New Flayed ones are ugly, expensive and in failcast. Currently painting 10 classic, metal Flayed ones I bought just before nerby shops ran out of stock. Bought most of them as "last of metal blisters sell out" usually getting up to 50% discount. Turns out it was one of best deals ever made imho. Keep your olds. In a few years they will be somewhat relic and nice addition to showcase

GiantSlingshot wrote:Alright, am I reading this correctly that QS only functions on Front and Side armor? I was feeling all cool that even in CC, it'd take a str 8 attack to pop the shields. (Against my friend that runs Ork Kopta's, it was a welcomed relief)

Really, judging by the lack of backlash from indignant 'cron fans once again threatening to sell their armies, it makes me wonder if I was reading it wrong the whole time.

Where did you get that idea from (I'm curious)? Quantum Shielding works in all cases until the vehicle suffers a penetrating hit.


----



And as for the 'outrageous' idea of Tyranids decimating Tomb Worlds, the fluff explains that the Tyranids rampaged through the empire while the Tomb Worlds were still in hibernation, but obviously the Tyranid process of stripping a world of all its bio-mass would have some pretty devastating effects on the planet as a whole and obviously caused massive damage to the stasis-tombs themselves.

Besides, even in the old fluff Necrons never killed every living thing, they only harvested sentient life for the C'Tan, so there's no real reason that their Tomb Worlds would be completely bare of life. So once they go into hibernation for 60 million years, their Tomb Worlds should be teeming with life, not the least of which are other races which have settled or grown on the planet since the Tomb Kings went into hibernation.

So there is absolutely every normal reason that Tyranids would attack a Tomb World, especially one that was in hibernation and it is perfectly understandable how their crazy bio-mass removal would cripple or damage any Necron tombs hidden beneath the surface as the tectonic shifts created by the removal of a world's oceans alone would be devestating.


And as for the old fluff about Tyranids purposely avoiding Necron worlds...how dumb is that from game perspective to have a 'reason' that Tyranids would never invade Necron Tomb Worlds? I don't care what kind of explanation is/was given, that never should have been part of the canon and it absolutely should be removed.

I believe at one point the Necrons were supposed to be worse than the Nids, what with star gods leading them and all. They even had a plan in place to seal the warp off from the materium. I guess they were supposed to be scary to the point that even Chaos and the Nids were going to have trouble with them, sometimes going out of their way to not fight them in the case of the Nids. But of course, that has been retconned into oblivion and now the Crons are just another race for Spess Mahrens to use as punching bags. In a way it makes them even more boring than a mysterious evil that could stop Chaos and make the Nids think twice.

yakface wrote:Where did you get that idea from (I'm curious)? Quantum Shielding works in all cases until the vehicle suffers a penetrating hit.

The White Dwarf scans that are popping up say it's Front and Side only.

DJ3 wrote:

yakface wrote:Where did you get that idea from (I'm curious)? Quantum Shielding works in all cases until the vehicle suffers a penetrating hit.

The White Dwarf scans that are popping up say it's Front and Side only.

It looks like my money is going out the window again. I bought a laptop a few weeks ago, and now another £100 is going to Triarch Praetorians/Lychguard.

pretre wrote:

DJ3 wrote:

yakface wrote:Where did you get that idea from (I'm curious)? Quantum Shielding works in all cases until the vehicle suffers a penetrating hit.

The White Dwarf scans that are popping up say it's Front and Side only.

No, the entire vehicle is covered by the shield. It's just the Front and Side that get the bonus.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

pretre wrote:

DJ3 wrote:

yakface wrote:Where did you get that idea from (I'm curious)? Quantum Shielding works in all cases until the vehicle suffers a penetrating hit.

The White Dwarf scans that are popping up say it's Front and Side only.

No, the entire vehicle is covered by the shield. It's just the Front and Side that get the bonus.

Well yeah... But that doesn't help you in CC.

Codex isn't even out yet but we are already having rules arguments.

yakface wrote:And as for the old fluff about Tyranids purposely avoiding Necron worlds...how dumb is that from game perspective to have a 'reason' that Tyranids would never invade Necron Tomb Worlds? I don't care what kind of explanation is/was given, that never should have been part of the canon and it absolutely should be removed.

Be that as it may, I think they could have worked around while retaining the fluff. Several compelling scenarios have been explained in this very thread showing why Tyranids might choose to attack a tomb world even at great loss for little immediate benefit. I wish they had used a storytelling mechanic like that, rather then simply pretend the old fluff didn't happen - the worst kind of retcon.

The vast majority of the new book looks really good - I'm not, like, scrounging around for stuff to complain about and focusing on the negative. I'm really excited about the new Necrons. But, mostly good, some neutral, maybe a tiny bit bad, as I see it.

lol, I agree lets wait a little bit at least.

pretre wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

pretre wrote:

DJ3 wrote:

yakface wrote:Where did you get that idea from (I'm curious)? Quantum Shielding works in all cases until the vehicle suffers a penetrating hit.

The White Dwarf scans that are popping up say it's Front and Side only.

No, the entire vehicle is covered by the shield. It's just the Front and Side that get the bonus.

Well yeah... But that doesn't help you in CC.

True, but I think the whole point was that it was originally 11/11/11 right?

So even at 11 rear, it's still fine for most CC. It doesn't bother me that the front sides are the only ones affected by the shielding.

So in other words, it'll be 13/13/11 with shield, fine by me. Once popped, it'll be 11/11/11 right? Still fine by me

@Dave, regarding the Tomb Stalker i have 3 of the lovely little blighters and just adore the look of horror when they are placed down on the tabletop, i did pop in to Games Day UK and went straight to see the new entry in the IAA 2nd Edition, the stats and rules all remain the same as the previous experimental rules which i was content with (although i would of loved a 3++ or 4++ as i always have plenty of lascannons aimed their way) but one thing did change in that they had a +10 point increase.
I hope there are other reasons your buying the book and not just due to the Tomb Stalker entry.

yakface wrote:

GiantSlingshot wrote:Alright, am I reading this correctly that QS only functions on Front and Side armor? I was feeling all cool that even in CC, it'd take a str 8 attack to pop the shields. (Against my friend that runs Ork Kopta's, it was a welcomed relief)

Where did you get that idea from (I'm curious)? Quantum Shielding works in all cases until the vehicle suffers a penetrating hit.

He got it from the leaked codex page which specifies "counts all armour values on the front and s____ _____ings as being 2 higher".



Maybe, GW was actually concerened what the impact would be for nids if their transports were AV13 on the back.

Nah

Now here's a few rule gems I'm sure many will be polishing: weapon destroyed results on a Doomsday Ark, would one result take out the entire array or just one flayer gun?

Can a 1 wound Cryptek/Mini lord/ etc keep making resurrection protocols if Dante uses his mask power? You decide!

Kurgash wrote:Now here's a few rule gems I'm sure many will be polishing: weapon destroyed results on a Doomsday Ark, would one result take out the entire array or just one flayer gun?

Can a 1 wound Cryptek/Mini lord/ etc keep making resurrection protocols if Dante uses his mask power? You decide!

Gauss Flayer Arrays will almost certainly be defined as a single weapon in the Codex. There's virtually no chance of this actually being a problem.

Dante can't use his mask on Crypteks or Lords. They aren't ICs.

Edit: And even if they were, Dante's power specifies "to a minimum of 1." That's why you can't insta-gib enemy Sanguinary Priests.

I was under the impression they were, do they just pick a squad to join at the start of the game and go from there?

edit: Ah, so it makes it down to a limit.

Kurgash wrote:I was under the impression they were, do they just pick a squad to join at the start of the game and go from there?

edit: Ah, so it makes it down to a limit.

Yes, they pick and attach to a squad to act as Sergeants. Like Wolf Guard.

They'd be an unplayable KP-nightmare otherwise.

pretre wrote:

DJ3 wrote:

yakface wrote:Where did you get that idea from (I'm curious)? Quantum Shielding works in all cases until the vehicle suffers a penetrating hit.

The White Dwarf scans that are popping up say it's Front and Side only.

Thanks,

Good to know!

Everytime I read Str 9 Ap1 Large Blast I giggle.

4x10 Warriors in Ghost Arks looks to be about 1000 points and a good core for what I want to try and do, then comes the 30 Scarabs... should be a fun book!

Thanks for all the hard work rumormongers!

And as for the old fluff about Tyranids purposely avoiding Necron worlds...how dumb is that from game perspective to have a 'reason' that Tyranids would never invade Necron Tomb Worlds? I don't care what kind of explanation is/was given, that never should have been part of the canon and it absolutely should be removed.

Actually, it was just that the 'Nids were avoiding a Dyson sphere that may have contained the C' Tan known as the Outsider, likely his insanity was such that even they wanted nothing to do with it!

BladeWalker wrote:Everytime I read Str 9 Ap1 Large Blast I giggle.

4x10 Warriors in Ghost Arks looks to be about 1000 points and a good core for what I want to try and do, then comes the 30 Scarabs... should be a fun book!

Thanks for all the hard work rumormongers!

You know what else is roughly that many points? 4 x 20 warriors... since most people are going to end up taking a couple of veils anyway, you might as well...

Could Reconstruction be taken against a failed 'Death or Glory'?

General Legion wrote:Could Reconstruction be taken against a failed 'Death or Glory'?

Not with the current way Death or Glory is written. It prevents a model from recovering from that kind of death using absolutely any means.

Man, I'd kill my own grandma to let Immortals get in a ghost ark.

Everything looks like it's shaping up nicely.

Doomsday Ark had better not be 175 points as listed. A stationary S9 AP1 blast isn't worth anything close to that since it isn't ordnance.

EDIT:

So if PE does work out for shooting in the next edition, that'll be interesting for Destroyers. 60 points for a deepstriking TL lascannon is a bit much, but 120 points for a unit of deep striking TL gauss cannons would be wonderful now that they're AP3. 5 dead long fangs, and they're difficult to catch in an assault. They can even reasonably damage transports from the rear.

EDIT2: 19 pt deathmarks? Something tells me that if the rumored rapid fire rules are going to go into effect, these guys will be MVPs with their 2+ wound roll choices. I wonder if sniper rifles will remain rending.

chunky_baby wrote:
True, but I think the whole point was that it was originally 11/11/11 right?

So even at 11 rear, it's still fine for most CC. It doesn't bother me that the front sides are the only ones affected by the shielding.

So in other words, it'll be 13/13/11 with shield, fine by me. Once popped, it'll be 11/11/11 right? Still fine by me

Once its popped it will propably go down flaming. Its just harder for it to get hit. The penetrating hit that pops the QS will still destroy it on 5-6 or am i misreading QS?

Aandiin wrote:

chunky_baby wrote:
True, but I think the whole point was that it was originally 11/11/11 right?

So even at 11 rear, it's still fine for most CC. It doesn't bother me that the front sides are the only ones affected by the shielding.

So in other words, it'll be 13/13/11 with shield, fine by me. Once popped, it'll be 11/11/11 right? Still fine by me

Once its popped it will propably go down flaming. Its just harder for it to get hit. The penetrating hit that pops the QS will still destroy it on 5-6 or am i misreading QS?

Yep still will. If it penetrates it penetrates. And you get +1 since its opentopped...meaning that it's actually destroyed on a 4+

But on the brightside - an S7 weapon can't deactivate it if it hits the front or side
S8 needs a 6+
S9 needs a 5+
S10 needs a 4+

Wait a minute...Aren't Stalkers protected by QS as well?
So that means if a Stalker gets charged you have to deal with AV13

Farquestor wrote:

pretre wrote:"They BELONG in a museum!"

"So do YOU!"

Throw him over the side?

Ouze wrote:
Be that as it may, I think they could have worked around while retaining the fluff. Several compelling scenarios have been explained in this very thread showing why Tyranids might choose to attack a tomb world even at great loss for little immediate benefit. I wish they had used a storytelling mechanic like that, rather then simply pretend the old fluff didn't happen - the worst kind of retcon.

Y'know, I totally disagree. I think most properties that get saddled with sub-par legacy background material and then just try to add on a work-around to keep the old history in place while still fundamentally changing things end up being a terrible Frankenstein mish-mash of concepts that don't work together. I much prefer when creative people can identify when something just doesn't work and decide to cut-bait and start over again taking only the parts that worked and building up from there.

I think if you go back to Rogue Trader and look at the fluff that's there you'll see that over the years GW has on many occasions completely abandoned whole concepts that they felt didn't work. This is no different than movie franchise re-boots or comic book universe refreshes. Not to say that those concepts are always great or needed, but rather that gaming companies or GW specifically doing this isn't some sort of completely unheard of move.

From my own perspective, and I understand this is just me, while I LOVED the overall old Necron fluff from a galaxy-wide standpoint (in that it provided all sorts of cool insights on the overall history of the 40K galaxy), from an actual gameplay and army-collecting standpoint I think it was terrible.

The only personality in the old fluff was in the C'Tan. The only Necrons that had any personality were the Lords and even then it was supposed to be just a small glimmer of their past sentience. So while players did paint their Necrons up using different colors, etc, there was really no real fluff reason behind this kind of distinction. There was no real possible individuality to be had in your own force besides what units you chose to have (or not have) in your force.

In many ways, the old codex could have been called 'Codex C'Tan' much the same way the 'Vampire Counts' army book is called that instead of 'Undead'...the personality behind the Vampire Counts army is the Vampire Counts and so therefore that's really what the book is centered around.

The previous Necron book and fluff just didn't provide the kind of possible creativity that the rest of the armies in 40K do. Hell, even Tyranid Hive Minds have enough sentience and fluff to them to explain different patterns in behavior and looks. So that literally made Necrons the most boring (in terms of player personalization) of any army in the game. And while for many that actually collected Necrons that may have been a positive (something totally different), I think for most players it was a turn-off. I could be wrong, and maybe everyone did like having no fluff justification for putting their own personal slant on their Necron armies, but judging from the overall reaction of these new rumors, I don't think I'm wrong.


The new fluff puts the Necrons themselves at the center of their own codex (as it always should have been) with C'Tan taking the backseat where they deserve to be on the table. The door is still there to have the Deceiver running around manipulating things, but in terms of fluff the Necrons themselves are diverse enough to allow people to create any kind of Necron force and fluff they can think of...which was obviously GW's goal.

If you want to play Necrons as mindless automatons, you can. If you want to play them as mercenaries, you can. If you want to play them as worshipers of a C'Tan shard, you can. The point is, as with the rest of the codexes they've opened it up to allow people to play and create their armies as wide as their imaginations will take them instead of rigidly saying: No, the Necrons only behave like X, Y & Z.


So I say good riddance to the old fluff. The stuff I've read from fluff alone has made me for the first time ever think that making a Necron army could be a rewarding venture, which to me (at least) says that they made the right move by going with a radical change in the Necron fluff.

Aandiin wrote:

chunky_baby wrote:
True, but I think the whole point was that it was originally 11/11/11 right?

So even at 11 rear, it's still fine for most CC. It doesn't bother me that the front sides are the only ones affected by the shielding.

So in other words, it'll be 13/13/11 with shield, fine by me. Once popped, it'll be 11/11/11 right? Still fine by me

Once its popped it will propably go down flaming. Its just harder for it to get hit. The penetrating hit that pops the QS will still destroy it on 5-6 or am i misreading QS?

4-6 actually, thanks to open-topped. 3+ is more likely due to the fact it was probably a melta that got it.

The thing is, it'll be hard to penetrate without going out of your way to do so, I think. Even 15 ML @ BS4 only results in 2 penetrates, and that's a lot of shots that didn't get directed at command barges, wraiths, scarabs, etc. That's provided the enemy could even see them in the dark, too.

Even without Imotek I'm seriously considering the aggressive use of Solar Pulses to protect arks and scythes for a turn.

So yak, can we confirm QS isn't on the night scythe for sure? Considering the problems with the thing (AV11 all around, no assaulting out of it, popping it probably takes the unit out of the game effectively, etc), I don't see it costing reasonably more than the ghost ark.

Ostrakon wrote:
Even without Imotek I'm seriously considering the aggressive use of Solar Pulses to protect arks and scythes for a turn.

So yak, can we confirm QS isn't on the night scythe for sure? Considering the problems with the thing (AV11 all around, no assaulting out of it, popping it probably takes the unit out of the game effectively, etc), I don't see it costing reasonably more than the ghost ark.

Yeah, what I have says that both the Scythe vehicles (Doom & Night) do NOT have Quantum Shielding...perhaps Quantum Shielding doesn't work on fast moving vehicles (from a fluff perspective)?

yakface wrote:

Ostrakon wrote:
Even without Imotek I'm seriously considering the aggressive use of Solar Pulses to protect arks and scythes for a turn.

So yak, can we confirm QS isn't on the night scythe for sure? Considering the problems with the thing (AV11 all around, no assaulting out of it, popping it probably takes the unit out of the game effectively, etc), I don't see it costing reasonably more than the ghost ark.

Yeah, what I have says that both the Scythe vehicles (Doom & Night) do NOT have Quantum Shielding...perhaps Quantum Shielding doesn't work on fast moving vehicles (from a fluff perspective)?

So I guess you gotta just turbo-boost that guy in and pray it survives the turn. Something tells me a Veil is a better way to get my lychguard across the table.

yakface wrote:

Ostrakon wrote:
Even without Imotek I'm seriously considering the aggressive use of Solar Pulses to protect arks and scythes for a turn.

So yak, can we confirm QS isn't on the night scythe for sure? Considering the problems with the thing (AV11 all around, no assaulting out of it, popping it probably takes the unit out of the game effectively, etc), I don't see it costing reasonably more than the ghost ark.

Yeah, what I have says that both the Scythe vehicles (Doom & Night) do NOT have Quantum Shielding...perhaps Quantum Shielding doesn't work on fast moving vehicles (from a fluff perspective)?

But then why does the Command Barge have QS?

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
But then why does the Command Barge have QS?

Because it can't move 'supersonic' like the skimmer/flyers can?

I'm just throwing out a random fluff justification idea...but I think it will be relatively easy to remember since those two vehicles are not open-topped and are basically flyers and typically flyer style vehicles in the game tend to be poorly protected (as theoretically their fast movement is supposed to make them more durable, which of course doesn't translate quite well into standard 40K games, but is represented quite nicely in Apocalypse, perhaps even too much).

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

yakface wrote:

Ostrakon wrote:
Even without Imotek I'm seriously considering the aggressive use of Solar Pulses to protect arks and scythes for a turn.

So yak, can we confirm QS isn't on the night scythe for sure? Considering the problems with the thing (AV11 all around, no assaulting out of it, popping it probably takes the unit out of the game effectively, etc), I don't see it costing reasonably more than the ghost ark.

Yeah, what I have says that both the Scythe vehicles (Doom & Night) do NOT have Quantum Shielding...perhaps Quantum Shielding doesn't work on fast moving vehicles (from a fluff perspective)?

But then why does the Command Barge have QS?

Heh.

Yak, I mean no offense by this, since you've been a valuable source of information in a world skewed by balls-out slowed GW marketing policies, but I'm kind of hoping you're wrong about QS on the night scythes. I mean, you're working off a playtest codex, right? Warriors ended up being 13 points, so maybe we'll get lucky.

wyomingfox wrote:

yakface wrote:

GiantSlingshot wrote:Alright, am I reading this correctly that QS only functions on Front and Side armor? I was feeling all cool that even in CC, it'd take a str 8 attack to pop the shields. (Against my friend that runs Ork Kopta's, it was a welcomed relief)

Where did you get that idea from (I'm curious)? Quantum Shielding works in all cases until the vehicle suffers a penetrating hit.

He got it from the leaked codex page which specifies "counts all armour values on the front and s____ _____ings as being 2 higher".



Maybe, GW was actually concerened what the impact would be for nids if their transports were AV13 on the back.

Nah

The words you are are looking for are "side facings"

Why didn't they label vehicle type on the WD scans? I understand the doom/ghost arks are just skimmers but are the annihilation and command barges going to be fast skimmers or not?

IronfrontAlex wrote:Why didn't they label vehicle type on the WD scans? I understand the doom/ghost arks are just skimmers but are the annihilation and command barges going to be fast skimmers or not?

They did. Look closely.

yakface wrote:

Ouze wrote:
Be that as it may, I think they could have worked around while retaining the fluff. Several compelling scenarios have been explained in this very thread showing why Tyranids might choose to attack a tomb world even at great loss for little immediate benefit. I wish they had used a storytelling mechanic like that, rather then simply pretend the old fluff didn't happen - the worst kind of retcon.

Y'know, I totally disagree. I think most properties that get saddled with sub-par legacy background material and then just try to add on a work-around to keep the old history in place while still fundamentally changing things end up being a terrible Frankenstein mish-mash of concepts that don't work together. I much prefer when creative people can identify when something just doesn't work and decide to cut-bait and start over again taking only the parts that worked and building up from there.

I think if you go back to Rogue Trader and look at the fluff that's there you'll see that over the years GW has on many occasions completely abandoned whole concepts that they felt didn't work. This is no different than movie franchise re-boots or comic book universe refreshes. Not to say that those concepts are always great or needed, but rather that gaming companies or GW specifically doing this isn't some sort of completely unheard of move.

From my own perspective, and I understand this is just me, while I LOVED the overall old Necron fluff from a galaxy-wide standpoint (in that it provided all sorts of cool insights on the overall history of the 40K galaxy), from an actual gameplay and army-collecting standpoint I think it was terrible.

The only personality in the old fluff was in the C'Tan. The only Necrons that had any personality were the Lords and even then it was supposed to be just a small glimmer of their past sentience. So while players did paint their Necrons up using different colors, etc, there was really no real fluff reason behind this kind of distinction. There was no real possible individuality to be had in your own force besides what units you chose to have (or not have) in your force.

In many ways, the old codex could have been called 'Codex C'Tan' much the same way the 'Vampire Counts' army book is called that instead of 'Undead'...the personality behind the Vampire Counts army is the Vampire Counts and so therefore that's really what the book is centered around.

The previous Necron book and fluff just didn't provide the kind of possible creativity that the rest of the armies in 40K do. Hell, even Tyranid Hive Minds have enough sentience and fluff to them to explain different patterns in behavior and looks. So that literally made Necrons the most boring (in terms of player personalization) of any army in the game. And while for many that actually collected Necrons that may have been a positive (something totally different), I think for most players it was a turn-off. I could be wrong, and maybe everyone did like having no fluff justification for putting their own personal slant on their Necron armies, but judging from the overall reaction of these new rumors, I don't think I'm wrong.


The new fluff puts the Necrons themselves at the center of their own codex (as it always should have been) with C'Tan taking the backseat where they deserve to be on the table. The door is still there to have the Deceiver running around manipulating things, but in terms of fluff the Necrons themselves are diverse enough to allow people to create any kind of Necron force and fluff they can think of...which was obviously GW's goal.

If you want to play Necrons as mindless automatons, you can. If you want to play them as mercenaries, you can. If you want to play them as worshipers of a C'Tan shard, you can. The point is, as with the rest of the codexes they've opened it up to allow people to play and create their armies as wide as their imaginations will take them instead of rigidly saying: No, the Necrons only behave like X, Y & Z.


So I say good riddance to the old fluff. The stuff I've read from fluff alone has made me for the first time ever think that making a Necron army could be a rewarding venture, which to me (at least) says that they made the right move by going with a radical change in the Necron fluff.

Yak, I can respect your perspective of not liking the fact that only the ctan had personalities, but honestly, with quality writing they could have had the both.

It is simple for the necrons to have strong rules and strong generals. Heck, it even works to give those generals some autonomy - after it would have been easy to write that its a big galaxy, and the Ctan had to give the overlords a very long leash as the old command and control structure was gone.
The Deceiver is even the kind of ruler that might have his generals (lords, overlords, etc.) compete with one another so they do not unite against them.

You could easily have had unique tomb worlds, especially if there are a lot of them (the free ctan can only be in so many places at one time). It would have been easy to write...it was just a lack of creativity...its similar to the old tired plot device of "the transporter is broken...".

Regardless, I am happy to have new rules, I am just a bit concerned that some of the units may be overcosted...but what do I expect, more grey knights?

Ostrakon wrote:
Yak, I mean no offense by this, since you've been a valuable source of information in a world skewed by balls-out slowed GW marketing policies, but I'm kind of hoping you're wrong about QS on the night scythes. I mean, you're working off a playtest codex, right? Warriors ended up being 13 points, so maybe we'll get lucky.

No offense taken. I've always said what I was posting was rumors and obviously there are cases where it looks as though what I had access to doesn't quite match up with the final publication, so there is always hope.

With that said, unless they also modify the point value on the Night Scythe to compensate for giving it Quantum Shielding, I still think its unlikely.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

IronfrontAlex wrote:Why didn't they label vehicle type on the WD scans? I understand the doom/ghost arks are just skimmers but are the annihilation and command barges going to be fast skimmers or not?

They did. Look closely.

FETH!

Ostrakon wrote:Man, I'd kill my own grandma to let Immortals get in a ghost ark.

Everything looks like it's shaping up nicely.

Doomsday Ark had better not be 175 points as listed. A stationary S9 AP1 blast isn't worth anything close to that since it isn't ordnance.

EDIT:

So if PE does work out for shooting in the next edition, that'll be interesting for Destroyers. 60 points for a deepstriking TL lascannon is a bit much, but 120 points for a unit of deep striking TL gauss cannons would be wonderful now that they're AP3. 5 dead long fangs, and they're difficult to catch in an assault. They can even reasonably damage transports from the rear.

EDIT2: 19 pt deathmarks? Something tells me that if the rumored rapid fire rules are going to go into effect, these guys will be MVPs with their 2+ wound roll choices. I wonder if sniper rifles will remain rending.

Hey Ostrakon

Do you mind a fast recap of what the 6th ed rumor for rapid fire is?

Balor wrote:

Ostrakon wrote:Man, I'd kill my own grandma to let Immortals get in a ghost ark.

Everything looks like it's shaping up nicely.

Doomsday Ark had better not be 175 points as listed. A stationary S9 AP1 blast isn't worth anything close to that since it isn't ordnance.

EDIT:

So if PE does work out for shooting in the next edition, that'll be interesting for Destroyers. 60 points for a deepstriking TL lascannon is a bit much, but 120 points for a unit of deep striking TL gauss cannons would be wonderful now that they're AP3. 5 dead long fangs, and they're difficult to catch in an assault. They can even reasonably damage transports from the rear.

EDIT2: 19 pt deathmarks? Something tells me that if the rumored rapid fire rules are going to go into effect, these guys will be MVPs with their 2+ wound roll choices. I wonder if sniper rifles will remain rending.

Hey Ostrakon

Do you mind a fast recap of what the 6th ed rumor for rapid fire is?

2 Shots at max range if you didn't move.
1 shot at max range if you did, 2 within 12 either way.

There was also something floating around about the ability to shoot something deep striking in, which makes the Deathmark's abilities make much more sense.

Oh cool I was starting to get worried that the Necrons were going to get that bad mix of design theory. Part of the current edition and next edition but be left in the dust as something that fits outside of them both. Example 40k daemons and WHFB Beastmen

Balor wrote:Oh cool I was starting to get worried that the Necrons were going to get that bad mix of design theory. Part of the current edition and next edition but be left in the dust as something that fits outside of them both. Example 40k daemons and WHFB Beastmen

Weren't 40k Daemons well into 5th though? I just thought they were a victim of exceptionally poor design and lack of playtesting.

Ostrakon wrote:

Balor wrote:Oh cool I was starting to get worried that the Necrons were going to get that bad mix of design theory. Part of the current edition and next edition but be left in the dust as something that fits outside of them both. Example 40k daemons and WHFB Beastmen

Weren't 40k Daemons well into 5th though? I just thought they were a victim of exceptionally poor design and lack of playtesting.

They were released just before 5th IIRC. The last Codex to do so at least.

No they were 4th Ed unless I'm totally loopy tonight but yes "victim of exceptionally poor design and lack of playtesting" is very correct and that is why we also have the new GK codex. Plus they knew they would make bank on selling super adeptus astartes.

Just Dave wrote:

Ostrakon wrote:

Balor wrote:Oh cool I was starting to get worried that the Necrons were going to get that bad mix of design theory. Part of the current edition and next edition but be left in the dust as something that fits outside of them both. Example 40k daemons and WHFB Beastmen

Weren't 40k Daemons well into 5th though? I just thought they were a victim of exceptionally poor design and lack of playtesting.

They were released just before 5th IIRC. The last Codex to do so at least.

Oh, I thought that was Orks.

Maybe this time around they're trying to be forward-looking with their codices? I mean, a lot of what's been rumored makes little sense under 5E rules, like destroyers having PE.

Considering we will likely not get a new codex until 7th or 8th, I hope this is the case.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Balor wrote:No they were 4th Ed unless I'm totally loopy tonight but yes "victim of exceptionally poor design and lack of playtesting" is very correct and that is why we also have the new GK codex. Plus they knew they would make bank on selling super adeptus astartes.

Thankfully I haven't played against them, but reading the codex it does seem like they're rather absurd in terms of power.

If beer fogged mind is still working it went 40K daemon and then Orks then 5th ..... the same seat Necron might be sitting atm.

Sadly in my last escalation league I took my Daemons to protest Matt Ward's no oversight silly of a codex(GK). It was me(Daemons), 1Tau, 1DA, 1 Necron and 7GK players. Let me say it was just amazing to find out how powerful they are. VS Daemons the game is in the bad if they understand the game at all. Well I did end up teaching half the players how to kill me and how to play their armies but that is besides the point. (My own fault being a Teacher even when I'm off the clock and having enough knowledge and skill to make it to round two of Ard boyz the last few years.)

Keeping in mind that this Codex is rumoured to have been written with 6th Ed. in mind, there are a few confusing elements that I think hint at 6th Ed. changes, and I suspect will significantly increase the strength of the Necron codex whenever 6th Ed. is released, if the direction goes the way I think it might:

First, the absence of troops inside the Night Scythe. Right now the rumour is that troops don't actually ride inside the Night Scythe, but rather get teleported through it from some pocket dimension, and thus if the Night Scythe is destroyed, its occupants go into reserve. This is the first strange element that doesn't really seem to fit with any consistent gameplay mechanics. Well, someone, somewhere posted something (wow, look how specific I am!!!1) about transports being riskier options in the rumoured 6th Ed. (113 pages. No way am I going through all of that to cite someone. Sorry, too lazy.) While I no longer believe the change to be a penetrating roll of 6 annihilates the occupants, I still think something ugly befalls the troops, beyond the Str 4 hit they currently take. If this is correct, then the pocket-dimension transporting of the Night Scythe wouldn't be affected should the Night Scythe explode. Additionally, the Monolith's limitless-ranged teleportation becomes fantastic, and generally Necron troops get to reap the benefits of having the safest ways to travel in 40k.

Second, the Supersonic speed of some of the transports, even without the quantum shielding. Given that vehicles moving flat-out get a 4+ cover save and tubo-boosting jetbikes get a 3+ cover save, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to think that in 6th Ed., vehicles moving at Supersonic speed would get a 2+ cover save. It fits in with the gameplay mechanic, and makes logical sense. (At least, I assume it makes logical sense. I don't imagine it would be easy to hit a Mach 1+ jet with a rifle.) Even though I don't like Quantum Shielding, if it were combined with a decent cover save, anything Supersonic with quantum shielding would be extremely durable so long as it was moving.

Third, the Deathmarks that can Deep Strike in response to the enemy moving troops in from reserve, only to get shot immediately. If 6th Ed. brings the ability to rapid fire out of a Deep Strike, then the multiple Veils that the Necrons are capable of taking becomes a massive boon to the army, particularly against any glass cannons the enemy may attempt to field.

And fourth, the Destroyers with Preferred Enemy. That's damned strange. It cannot possibly be to give them any edge in CC, as in squads of 3 at Init 2 they are dead, dead dead in CC. But, if there is a chance that 6th Ed. changes Preferred Enemy to included shooting, then suddenly the Destroyers become absolutely lethal. 2 units of 3 Destroyers would get 12 shots. At BS 4 they hit 8 times, and hit 2 or 3 times on the re-roll for a total of 10-11 hits. With Str 6, they wound on a 2 against MEQs, meaning of their 10-11 hits, they wound 8-10 without armour saves. That's a full squad of tactical marines, or two 5-man squads that get wiped. Add in the potential for a third unit of Destroyers carrying the Heavy Gauss Cannon, getting 2-3 hits on a transport at Str 9, and this is a nightmare for MEQs. 1 squad pops the transport, the other 2 wipe the squads that were inside. While I admit that I am very biased in favour of Destroyer wings, come 6th Ed., they may be even more powerful troop-killers than they were before. Between Nov 5th and whenever 6th Ed. rolls around, it sounds like Scarabs may be the kings of the FA slot, but if Preferred Enemy does change, I think the flying circus will be back on top. Gods, I hope Preferred Enemy changes.

What do y'all think? Could I be on the right track? Or do y'all think I'm just deluding myself?

Edit: spelling.

I think that if you're looking for a fluff justification for no QS on the night/doom scythes, then the operative part is only Open Topped vehicles get quantum shields. Even the walker is open topped. The only vehicles without them are Monoliths, and Nightscythes, both hard-tops. So, either the shield projectors get disrupted by Faraday Cages (metal bawkses), or the 'Crons decided it was the vulnerable looking vehicles that needed the extra tech to protect them.

Switching gears. It was said some pages ago that the War Scythes retain their 2d6 pen rolls, justified by the poster having read the WD. I just picked up a copy, and read through the Necron stuff (Pretty awesome paint jobs, with differentiated dynasty schemes, I might add) but couldn't find any info on the warscythe penetrations. Did I miss the page, or is it a different source that this rumor cropped up from? I know that it certainly wasn't Yak's source.

GiantSlingshot wrote:Switching gears. It was said some pages ago that the War Scythes retain their 2d6 pen rolls, justified by the poster having read the WD. I just picked up a copy, and read through the Necron stuff (Pretty awesome paint jobs, with differentiated dynasty schemes, I might add) but couldn't find any info on the warscythe penetrations. Did I miss the page, or is it a different source that this rumor cropped up from? I know that it certainly wasn't Yak's source.

BramGaunt said that the 2d6 came from the German version of WD.

As much as I hate to disagree with Yak, as you are why I joined the site, the whole necron/nid fluff is kind of silly. In past books they avoid them, even putting parts of their enormous fleet into hibernation to avoid a single necron planet. Tyranids exist to consume every bit of biomass they can find. It is said that on planets where the necrons have woken up they kill everything from sentient life to the bacteria floating around in the air. The planet is useless to tyranids. The amount of physical energy to assault an entire planet (landing troops, attacking, reinforcing and then taking the troops back up into space) is a ridiculous amount. Im not saying it couldnt happen on a still inhabited world where the necrons are still sleeping or even on an existing, awake, necron world (though thats an enormous uphill battle with no reinforcements). I just think it was a very neat bit of fluff that stood out to me and a couple other people. A race that consumes biomass attacking a planet with zero mass is silly. Especially when they cant even assimilate the genetics of the necrons.

In past books, they avoided Tomb Worlds.

"Tomb Worlds", as classified by the Imperium, are dead worlds which have nothing but the Necrontyr tombs.

There almost certainly are Necrontyr tombs on worlds which are lush, verdant paradises. Simply having a Necrontyr tomb on the world does not automatically make it a dead world useless to the Tyranids.

Hox wrote:As much as I hate to disagree with Yak, as you are why I joined the site, the whole necron/nid fluff is kind of silly. In past books they avoid them, even putting parts of their enormous fleet into hibernation to avoid a single necron planet. Tyranids exist to consume every bit of biomass they can find. It is said that on planets where the necrons have woken up they kill everything from sentient life to the bacteria floating around in the air. The planet is useless to tyranids. The amount of physical energy to assault an entire planet (landing troops, attacking, reinforcing and then taking the troops back up into space) is a ridiculous amount. Im not saying it couldnt happen on a still inhabited world where the necrons are still sleeping or even on an existing, awake, necron world (though thats an enormous uphill battle with no reinforcements). I just think it was a very neat bit of fluff that stood out to me and a couple other people. A race that consumes biomass attacking a planet with zero mass is silly. Especially when they cant even assimilate the genetics of the necrons.

I think what most people are missing with this is that what if the Necrons Were Not awake. Then it seems plausible that after millions/billions of years life would teem on such a planet and the Nids came and ate that and such and such as has been mentioned between natural disasters the Nids cause that the Necrons could have been suitably devastated. I don't recall this piece of new fluff saying the Necrons were awake yet.

Hox wrote:A race that consumes biomass attacking a planet with zero mass is silly. Especially when they cant even assimilate the genetics of the necrons.

Except they do dissolve and absorb metal.

Vhalyar wrote:

Hox wrote:A race that consumes biomass attacking a planet with zero mass is silly. Especially when they cant even assimilate the genetics of the necrons.

Except they do dissolve and absorb metal.

Which is a very small part of the makeup of any living thing. There are many building blocks of life that are required.

Don't quote me on this, but i'm pretty sure I read somewhere that if a Tomb World is destroyed, the inhabitants are phased to another one. I think it was in Hammer and Anvil. Can anyone prove this theory. The final battle between the Sisters and the Necrons, with the Lord fighting up close and personal with the Sister Commander.

I don't mind the concept of the Tyranids avoiding dead worlds that hold nothing but the inorganic tombs of sleeping Necrons. How is that a silly concept? What do the Tyranids gain by invading a world with no biomass and having to fight a war against completely inorganic foes?

Hidden tombs on worlds that have since gone on to become other things (verdant jungle worlds, big hive worlds, worlds with massive oceans, Ork worlds, etc.) - that's fine. But the dead Tomb Worlds, no, Tyranids should be avoiding them.

So yakface do you know if the C'tan shards are still going to be daemons like the old c'tan? If so It's not gonna be pretty watching my shards get 1 hit killed by daemonbane (curse you grey knights!)

Yak a quick question, do you know how Nemesor Zahndrekh is equipped?
I'm looking for some ideas to convert him as soon as I can.
I know his personal guard has war scythe, but in the tiny art I can see of Nemesor in the WD it looks like he's holding a more traditional scythe.

hivefleetmonolith wrote:So yakface do you know if the C'tan shards are still going to be daemons like the old c'tan? If so It's not gonna be pretty watching my shards get 1 hit killed by daemonbane (curse you grey knights!)

The old C'Tan were daemons?? really? Where's that rule? (Hope that didn't come across as rude, can't really give a "tone" on the internet lol, im genuinely curious!)

Hehe, colored now, I'll just put this here..

Marshal_Hadrial wrote:

I think what most people are missing with this is that what if the Necrons Were Not awake. Then it seems plausible that after millions/billions of years life would teem on such a planet and the Nids came and ate that and such and such as has been mentioned between natural disasters the Nids cause that the Necrons could have been suitably devastated. I don't recall this piece of new fluff saying the Necrons were awake yet.

Actually in the codex it specifically says that their Empire was decimated while they were hibernating by a Tryanid Hive Fleet and other alien races too.

Hox wrote:As much as I hate to disagree with Yak, as you are why I joined the site, the whole necron/nid fluff is kind of silly. In past books they avoid them, even putting parts of their enormous fleet into hibernation to avoid a single necron planet. Tyranids exist to consume every bit of biomass they can find. It is said that on planets where the necrons have woken up they kill everything from sentient life to the bacteria floating around in the air. The planet is useless to tyranids. The amount of physical energy to assault an entire planet (landing troops, attacking, reinforcing and then taking the troops back up into space) is a ridiculous amount. Im not saying it couldnt happen on a still inhabited world where the necrons are still sleeping or even on an existing, awake, necron world (though thats an enormous uphill battle with no reinforcements). I just think it was a very neat bit of fluff that stood out to me and a couple other people. A race that consumes biomass attacking a planet with zero mass is silly. Especially when they cant even assimilate the genetics of the necrons.

I'm curious, where in the old fluff did it say that Necrons destroy every living thing on their Tomb Worlds including all bacteria? Because that would basically mean that all Tomb Worlds have no atmosphere at all (as living matter is needed to generate oxegyn) and at the very least I thought that most, if not all, Tomb Worlds in the old fluff still had air.

And why would they even do that in the old fluff? Their only point was to harvest sentient beings for the C'Tan to feed on, not animals, bacteria, etc...


Looking at the old codex it appears as though the Tyranids were avoiding the Necron worlds because of a psychic 'shadow' (likely caused by Pariahs, I assume) not because they didn't want to devour Tomb Worlds. And regardless of what the reasoning was, I still look at that and say its a BAD choice for fluff because it needlessly limits people's imaginations from re-creating Tyranid assaults on Necron Tomb Worlds. When the fluff is actively discouraging you from playing interesting scenarios, I think its poor fluff that needs to be changed IMHO.

Tombworlds in old fluff had air.

Hox is getting planets that the necrons have purged of life and tombworlds (where necrons are sleeping) confused.

H.B.M.C. wrote:I don't mind the concept of the Tyranids avoiding dead worlds that hold nothing but the inorganic tombs of sleeping Necrons. How is that a silly concept? What do the Tyranids gain by invading a world with no biomass and having to fight a war against completely inorganic foes?

Hidden tombs on worlds that have since gone on to become other things (verdant jungle worlds, big hive worlds, worlds with massive oceans, Ork worlds, etc.) - that's fine. But the dead Tomb Worlds, no, Tyranids should be avoiding them.

Maybe we're having a disconnect between the old and new fluff versus the term 'Tomb World'.

'Tomb Worlds' in the new fluff are simply worlds where Necrons went into hibernation on. However, after 60 million years if any of these worlds had ANY atmosphere and life on them before they went into hibernation then they would be literally teeming with life when the Tyranids arrive. So with the new fluff there is one Empire who had its worlds devastated by a Tyranid Hive Fleet (among other things) while it slept and now the remainder of its Necrons are spread out and not unified like other Necron Empires.

But getting back to the 'old' fluff, I never saw any indication that Necrons wiped out every single bit of life on their worlds anytime they were awake, but maybe someone can point me to a reference to clue me in.

Whats up with the fake codex page? http://www.giftsforgeeks.org.uk/p/product/771199020-Codex%2520Necrons%25202011/

Didn't you just answer your own question?

Anyway, I'm looking forward to the new Necron Codex for all of the interesting 'counts as' opportunities it (may) offer!

I have been looking through page after page because I thought it was figured out mathwise or something, but was it ever figured out what one is better , warriors or immortals? Just trying to see what I should focus on and buy

Immortals are better as MSU squads - their better armor save makes them more resilient.

Warriors are better as more horde-squads (units of 11+ models) - they will stand up to firepower longer and have more return fire since they're carrying more guns.

I think a good mix of both (utilizing night scythes and ghost arks) will be seen in lists, both casual and tournament style alike.

tetrisphreak wrote:Immortals are better as MSU squads - their better armor save makes them more resilient.

Warriors are better as more horde-squads (units of 11+ models) - they will stand up to firepower longer and have more return fire since they're carrying more guns.

I think a good mix of both (utilizing night scythes and ghost arks) will be seen in lists, both casual and tournament style alike.

Right, there's literally no reason to take squads of 10 immortals when you have empty slots. 5 and 5 for target splitting and cover works so much better.

I want to see how feasible it will be to set up ghost arks to be disembarked immediately on turn 1, and boarded by immortals.

Ostrakon wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote:Immortals are better as MSU squads - their better armor save makes them more resilient.

Warriors are better as more horde-squads (units of 11+ models) - they will stand up to firepower longer and have more return fire since they're carrying more guns.

I think a good mix of both (utilizing night scythes and ghost arks) will be seen in lists, both casual and tournament style alike.

Right, there's literally no reason to take squads of 10 immortals when you have empty slots. 5 and 5 for target splitting and cover works so much better.

I want to see how feasible it will be to set up ghost arks to be disembarked immediately on turn 1, and boarded by immortals.

Very feasable. Just do it. But why would you? The Ghost Ark doesn't reaminate Immortals, so you'd be better off keeping the Warriors nearby the Ghost Ark instead. And if you equip the Immortals with the Assault 1 Tesla weapons, you can just take the Cryptek with Veil of Darkness and teleport the Immortals to the same destination.

Ostrakon wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote:Immortals are better as MSU squads - their better armor save makes them more resilient.

Warriors are better as more horde-squads (units of 11+ models) - they will stand up to firepower longer and have more return fire since they're carrying more guns.

I think a good mix of both (utilizing night scythes and ghost arks) will be seen in lists, both casual and tournament style alike.

Right, there's literally no reason to take squads of 10 immortals when you have empty slots. 5 and 5 for target splitting and cover works so much better.

I want to see how feasible it will be to set up ghost arks to be disembarked immediately on turn 1, and boarded by immortals.

I thought ghost arks could only be embarked and disembarked by warriors. Maybe that was my interpretation of what yak said, and that ghosts can only be dedicated to warriors. Now that I typed this, the latter seems to be more likely...

If Ghost arks could regenerate immortals there would be absolutely no reason to take warriors at all, except the minimum necessary to get the Ghost ark.

I'm all for Tyranids fighting Necrons. I agree they should avoid completely lifeless worlds, and the new fluff seems to suggest they do. But with a little creativity it isn't too hard to come up for a reason why they would fight.

For example, perhaps an alien species that seems like a prime candidate for the bio-transfer is about to get om nommed. I think thats a neat scenario because no matter who wins that species still loses.

I just dont see a reason to needlessely limit fluffy player interactions bewteen Necrons and Tyranids.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm wondering, does phase out and other forms of mass teleportation still exist fluffwise? Do Necrons simply vanish after they've taken a beating?

And for something completley different: is it just me or does Imotekh look like he's leaning really far back at a weird angle? Might just be the pic.

Thanks for the info guys. Seems atleast warriors are a bit better now as there is no Night Scythe model out yet to even transport the immortals

corpsesarefun wrote:Tombworlds in old fluff had air.

Hox is getting planets that the necrons have purged of life and tombworlds (where necrons are sleeping) confused.

False. P33 Necron Codex

Several unexplained anomalies on the planet of Angelis.

1. The planets eco-sphere appears to be deteriorating for no apparent reason. Despite having a favorable oxygen/nitrogen rich atmosphere and low levels of background radiation, there are no signs of life. Not even on a micro-organic scale.

2. A group of formations of apparently unnatural origin.

3. An energy source issuing some sort of beacon from the area around the unnatural formations which remains indecipherable.

It goes on to talk about the ANCIENT PYRAMIDS EXISTING ON THE PLANET

P50

Greggor had travelled to the remote system of blah blah in search of an ancient civilization. They expected to find a fertile, wooded world populated by simple, pastoral people called the silvac.

When Greggors ship had arrived, he had found a completely dead world.

Yadda yadda

(Further down page) I request I be given time to study them. To determine why and how the evident ecological collapse occured and why an entire species died out in less than a thousand years.

It looks like the silvac lived on a tomb world and worshiped the necrons as gods. Then the necrons woke up and murdered everything on the planet.

There is more I'm sure and I shall continue to find/add/edit

Edit 1: Just reading almost any story had the word DEAD next to every single world. When the IoM data lists life forms on the tomb worlds it is always absolutely none of any kind.

Edit 2:

P4 of Necron Codex:

"Another example is the reports of hundreds of tombworlds discovered by the Explorators of the Adeptus Mechanicus over the millennia. Most lie at the far edges of the galaxy, dead worlds where ranks of ancient, cyclopean structures bear testimony to aeons-past glories of long dead races..... Some whisper that these worlds are far from dead, that their ageless inhabitants are sleeping away endless millennia in hidden stasis."

Says they may be alive because of necrons, meaning nothing else exists on the planets.

Edit 3: P6/7

"NAOGEDDEN IS A DEAD WORLD"
"0% PRECIPITATION"
"LIFEFORMS:
AUTOCHTHONIC: NONE
INTRODUCED: NONE"

Talks about giant triangles on the planet.

The example of the Silvac is a silly one to use, as they had apparently displeased their masters and were exterminated because of it.

azazel the cat wrote:

Ostrakon wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote:Immortals are better as MSU squads - their better armor save makes them more resilient.

Warriors are better as more horde-squads (units of 11+ models) - they will stand up to firepower longer and have more return fire since they're carrying more guns.

I think a good mix of both (utilizing night scythes and ghost arks) will be seen in lists, both casual and tournament style alike.

Right, there's literally no reason to take squads of 10 immortals when you have empty slots. 5 and 5 for target splitting and cover works so much better.

I want to see how feasible it will be to set up ghost arks to be disembarked immediately on turn 1, and boarded by immortals.

Very feasable. Just do it. But why would you? The Ghost Ark doesn't reaminate Immortals, so you'd be better off keeping the Warriors nearby the Ghost Ark instead. And if you equip the Immortals with the Assault 1 Tesla weapons, you can just take the Cryptek with Veil of Darkness and teleport the Immortals to the same destination.

Ah, but why would I need to regenerate embarked warriors? It's not like they'll be taking casualties.

Kanluwen wrote:The example of the Silvac is a silly one to use, as they had apparently displeased their masters and were exterminated because of it.

I would agree except that it says the necrons killed everything. From the silvac to the plant life on the planet, it was 100% lifeless. If I'm pissed at you I might shoot you. I'm not going to walk around your house shooting all your potted plants. Necrons are not pro life.

I'm just wondering what the new min/max units are going to be. Grey Knights have Psyfledreds, Dark Eldar have Venoms, SW's have ling fangs, etc.

I'm thinking Monoliths. Although they will lose a lot of survivability, armor 14 is still a tough nut to crack. And you can get this for much cheaper than other armies too, while the table board teleportation can really give you some powerful gameplay options, and can easily refuse flank on a unsuspecting opponent.


However as I look at the rumors, I don't see reliable anti-tank options. Maybe this is in mind for 6th edition, but glancing on a 6 is great, but tank suppression can only get you so far. Other armies excel by having cheap ways to fit lots of special weapons, such as Long Fangs or Veterans, but I don't see Necron troops of having anyway to do that, unless they get a Warscythe with a Necron Lord in there.

From what's been leaked, I feel like it's going to be a mono-build with the Stormlord. Not for his STR 8, but by forcing the enemy to get close to the necrons. This will shut down gun line armies and force them to get close, because they can tear units to shreds in a giant mass of rapid fire weapons. This will also allow the player to focus on repelling CC armies, through use of Lychguard and Wraiths. I see Preatorians being that one unit that could good, there are just better options that could be taken. Scarabs also seem really cool, but with the drop to Beasts, I think most players will have a difficult time getting them to that enemy vehicle. That 2+ cover save for turbo-boosting made scarabs what they are. But all I see are failed fleet rolls and disappointingly accurate blast templates.

Lastly tomb spyders could be a hidden gem, providing a multitude or army wide effects for the player. If it can join squads, they could help weaken psychic powers, spawning units, and repairing vehicles. They could even do a lot more too, depending on how powerful these particle weapons turn out, if it's still a MC. That lash whip like upgrade could also be a powerful boost allowing even basic warriors to swing 1st. This could all be overblown, but even then adding 3 wounds to a squad for less points than they are now sounds very nice. And if someone were to have a power squad, not only would those 3 wounds be great for wound allocation, but that psychic defense could mess some armies up.(What's that Doom/JOTWW/Weaken Resolve/Cleansing Flames?)



This is all speculation, and this could turn out to be completely wrong however....

tl:dr
Stormlord
MSU Immortals
Monoliths
(Tomb Spyders?)

I'm thinking that the Stormlord army will only be a favorable build until the new Tau are released and every model has a blacksun filter which allows them to ignore night fight entirely...

Hox wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:The example of the Silvac is a silly one to use, as they had apparently displeased their masters and were exterminated because of it.

I would agree except that it says the necrons killed everything. From the silvac to the plant life on the planet, it was 100% lifeless. If I'm pissed at you I might shoot you. I'm not going to walk around your house shooting all your potted plants. Necrons are not pro life.

And if I'm angered at you for not worshiping me as you should, I will not simply kill you. I will scour the land, completely, and salt the earth afterwards rendering it completely uninhabitable and forcing you and your kin to die in the most painful and slow manner possible to show you why you should not worship me out of love--but out of fear.

It's not really comparable to simply say that it was a case of the Necrontyr and the C'Tan they obeyed "being pissed". Think of some of the Old Testament stuff. The killing of the firstborn sons, the plagues, etc.

I have a question for those in the know: Can any Ghost Ark regenrate a unit of Warriors? I assume it's one unit that gets the D3, but is it only the unit of Warriors that bought the transport?

If any Ark could regenerate then having some Warriors sandwiched or surrounded by a few Arks could be quite interesting. And if an Ark regenerated ALL Warrior units near it, that would be boss.

Kanluwen wrote:

Hox wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:The example of the Silvac is a silly one to use, as they had apparently displeased their masters and were exterminated because of it.

I would agree except that it says the necrons killed everything. From the silvac to the plant life on the planet, it was 100% lifeless. If I'm pissed at you I might shoot you. I'm not going to walk around your house shooting all your potted plants. Necrons are not pro life.

And if I'm angered at you for not worshiping me as you should, I will not simply kill you. I will scour the land, completely, and salt the earth afterwards rendering it completely uninhabitable and forcing you and your kin to die in the most painful and slow manner possible to show you why you should not worship me out of love--but out of fear.

It's not really comparable to simply say that it was a case of the Necrontyr and the C'Tan they obeyed "being pissed". Think of some of the Old Testament stuff. The killing of the firstborn sons, the plagues, etc.

Well isnt someone here a sick puppy. If this was the only sign that the necrons wiped worlds clean than it wouldnt be for sure but it is clear in almost every story and every description, the tomb worlds have no existing life on them once the metal gods roll out of bed.

But again, you're focusing on the Imperial designation of a Tomb World.

Not every world with a tomb on it is a Tomb World.

Anyone have a plan for dealing with units that have Invulnerable saves?
I mean, a drive-by with a Monolith and making them take a strength test...
Running the numbers (which is always dangerous for me) even a full squad of Heavy Destroyers are only expected to take out 2 normal Termies a round of shooting... and that isn't the TH/SS variety.
Do we have and CC options that can stand toe-to-toe?

Kanluwen wrote:But again, you're focusing on the Imperial designation of a Tomb World.

Not every world with a tomb on it is a Tomb World.

Pretty sure you just said not every world with a tomb on it is a tomb world. I want you to sit for a second and think about what you just said.

Anpu-adom wrote:Anyone have a plan for dealing with units that have Invulnerable saves?
I mean, a drive-by with a Monolith and making them take a strength test...
Running the numbers (which is always dangerous for me) even a full squad of Heavy Destroyers are only expected to take out 2 normal Termies a round of shooting... and that isn't the TH/SS variety.
Do we have and CC options that can stand toe-to-toe?

Yeah, massed gauss fire. We now have the ability to actually dish out a ton of shots (or at least, a significant amount more). It's a pain that we can't cut through invuln saves any more, but the more wounds we dish out, the more they're going to fail.

Hox wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:But again, you're focusing on the Imperial designation of a Tomb World.

Not every world with a tomb on it is a Tomb World.

Pretty sure you just said not every world with a tomb on it is a tomb world. I want you to sit for a second and think about what you just said.

I want you to sit for a second and think about the fact that you missed the key part.

Imperial designations for Tomb Worlds are not necessarily what we as omniscient observers are going to classify as Tomb Worlds.

We know that Tomb Worlds are worlds which have a Necron tomb upon them, and have had them for millions of years slumbering beneath the feet of civilizations. The Imperium, however, does not realize that unless they find architecture or relics which point towards there having been a Necron presence beforehand.

It's important to realize the distinction between what 'we' know and what 'the Imperium' knows.

Kanluwen wrote:

Hox wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:But again, you're focusing on the Imperial designation of a Tomb World.

Not every world with a tomb on it is a Tomb World.

Pretty sure you just said not every world with a tomb on it is a tomb world. I want you to sit for a second and think about what you just said.

I want you to sit for a second and think about the fact that you missed the key part.

Imperial designations for Tomb Worlds are not necessarily what we as omniscient observers are going to classify as Tomb Worlds.

We know that Tomb Worlds are worlds which have a Necron tomb upon them, and have had them for millions of years slumbering beneath the feet of civilizations. The Imperium, however, does not realize that unless they find architecture or relics which point towards there having been a Necron presence beforehand.

It's important to realize the distinction between what 'we' know and what 'the Imperium' knows.

Heres how I do math. Tombworld is equal to Tomb+World.

Every single time in the codex one of these tomb worlds are encountered and the IoM gets inside the buildings, people die. I just read through the codex like 15 minutes ago. It honestly seems like you haven't read it. Can you show me an example of this thought process played out in the only book we have to extrapolate data from? I put a bunch of points up explaining my thought process, you do the same.

Tombworld
Tombhiveworld
Tombdeathworld
Tombagriworld
Tombforgeworld

TombCANDYworld, HAPPY HAllowe... Oh, to early for that.

Ostrakon wrote:

azazel the cat wrote:

Ostrakon wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote:Immortals are better as MSU squads - their better armor save makes them more resilient.

Warriors are better as more horde-squads (units of 11+ models) - they will stand up to firepower longer and have more return fire since they're carrying more guns.

I think a good mix of both (utilizing night scythes and ghost arks) will be seen in lists, both casual and tournament style alike.

Right, there's literally no reason to take squads of 10 immortals when you have empty slots. 5 and 5 for target splitting and cover works so much better.

I want to see how feasible it will be to set up ghost arks to be disembarked immediately on turn 1, and boarded by immortals.

Very feasable. Just do it. But why would you? The Ghost Ark doesn't reaminate Immortals, so you'd be better off keeping the Warriors nearby the Ghost Ark instead. And if you equip the Immortals with the Assault 1 Tesla weapons, you can just take the Cryptek with Veil of Darkness and teleport the Immortals to the same destination.

Ah, but why would I need to regenerate embarked warriors? It's not like they'll be taking casualties.

I just assumed that upon arriving at your destination, the troops would disembark. Otherwise, what good are they?

azazel the cat wrote:

Ostrakon wrote:

azazel the cat wrote:

Ostrakon wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote:Immortals are better as MSU squads - their better armor save makes them more resilient.

Warriors are better as more horde-squads (units of 11+ models) - they will stand up to firepower longer and have more return fire since they're carrying more guns.

I think a good mix of both (utilizing night scythes and ghost arks) will be seen in lists, both casual and tournament style alike.

Right, there's literally no reason to take squads of 10 immortals when you have empty slots. 5 and 5 for target splitting and cover works so much better.

I want to see how feasible it will be to set up ghost arks to be disembarked immediately on turn 1, and boarded by immortals.

Very feasable. Just do it. But why would you? The Ghost Ark doesn't reaminate Immortals, so you'd be better off keeping the Warriors nearby the Ghost Ark instead. And if you equip the Immortals with the Assault 1 Tesla weapons, you can just take the Cryptek with Veil of Darkness and teleport the Immortals to the same destination.

Ah, but why would I need to regenerate embarked warriors? It's not like they'll be taking casualties.

I just assumed that upon arriving at your destination, the troops would disembark. Otherwise, what good are they?

Open-topped vehicle, my friend. They can fire away from within the comparative safety of the ark.

azazel the cat wrote:
I just assumed that upon arriving at your destination, the troops would disembark. Otherwise, what good are they?

Ghost arks are open-topped. All Necron warriors inside can fire out without disembarking. That is why they would Normally stay within its confines.

From the new fluff standpoint, when it refers to the Flayed Ones being hunted down and destroyed after an engagement where they show up to add to the chaos of battle, wouldn't that be a moot point really as they would just phase out and be repaired on their home world?

Or has Necron self repair changed in the story to be where it repairs non catastrophic damage to the body but otherwise that Necron is fully DEAD should repairs not be effective? I'm not getting how a bunch of machines can be forever lost if they are able to be just repaired and sent back into the fray?

Anpu-adom wrote:Anyone have a plan for dealing with units that have Invulnerable saves?
I mean, a drive-by with a Monolith and making them take a strength test...
Running the numbers (which is always dangerous for me) even a full squad of Heavy Destroyers are only expected to take out 2 normal Termies a round of shooting... and that isn't the TH/SS variety.
Do we have and CC options that can stand toe-to-toe?

Wraiths: 40 pts, S6, Rending, Jump Infantry, Ignore Terrain, 3++ save, 3 Attacks base, 2 Wounds, equipment to allow Wound Allocation shenanigans. I2 sucks, but the 3++ save definitely helps here. Seems to me they could go toe-to-toe vs. most Assault Troops, including TH/SS Terminators (heck, they'd even get to go first against them!)

For the dude with his panties in a bunch about no life on tomb worlds... Consider this startling fact: It is a game.

Necrons aren't real.

Death By Monkeys wrote:

Anpu-adom wrote:Anyone have a plan for dealing with units that have Invulnerable saves?
I mean, a drive-by with a Monolith and making them take a strength test...
Running the numbers (which is always dangerous for me) even a full squad of Heavy Destroyers are only expected to take out 2 normal Termies a round of shooting... and that isn't the TH/SS variety.
Do we have and CC options that can stand toe-to-toe?

Wraiths: 40 pts, S6, Rending, Jump Infantry, Ignore Terrain, 3++ save, 3 Attacks base, 2 Wounds, equipment to allow Wound Allocation shenanigans. I2 sucks, but the 3++ save definitely helps here. Seems to me they could go toe-to-toe vs. most Assault Troops, including TH/SS Terminators (heck, they'd even get to go first against them!)

Any word on how expensive those Whips are?

Hox wrote:
Every single time in the codex one of these tomb worlds are encountered and the IoM gets inside the buildings, people die. I just read through the codex like 15 minutes ago. It honestly seems like you haven't read it. Can you show me an example of this thought process played out in the only book we have to extrapolate data from? I put a bunch of points up explaining my thought process, you do the same.

The codex is not the only book to work from, and has not been for quite some time. If you want to make examples, I'd suggest looking at the two recent novels "Dead Men Walking" and "The Fall of Damnos", both of which were written with this current fluff specifically in mind.

Nightsbane wrote:For the dude with his panties in a bunch about no life on tomb worlds... Consider this startling fact: It is a game.

Necrons aren't real.

Oh my god! You are so clever. Gosh I guess your right and because something doesnt really exist it is therefore worthless. Your little plastic soldiers arent real living soldiers so do me a favor and microwave them because they aren't real!

The codex is not the only book to work from, and has not been for quite some time. If you want to make examples, I'd suggest looking at the two recent novels "Dead Men Walking" and "The Fall of Damnos", both of which were written with this current fluff specifically in mind.

Still going to be a dick and ask for quotes it was done to me, now I have to share the pain.

I'm not quoting two entire novels.

What I can say, however, is that "Dead Men Walking" is a fantastic read and I highly suggest it.

Kanluwen wrote:I'm not quoting two entire novels.

What I can say, however, is that "Dead Men Walking" is a fantastic read and I highly suggest it.

I guess I'll pick it up at some point. Still, as of last codex, all the worlds with awake necrons were cleansed of life.

BSent wrote:I'm just wondering what the new min/max units are going to be. Grey Knights have Psyfledreds, Dark Eldar have Venoms, SW's have ling fangs, etc.

I'm thinking Monoliths. Although they will lose a lot of survivability, armor 14 is still a tough nut to crack. And you can get this for much cheaper than other armies too, while the table board teleportation can really give you some powerful gameplay options, and can easily refuse flank on a unsuspecting opponent.


However as I look at the rumors, I don't see reliable anti-tank options. Maybe this is in mind for 6th edition, but glancing on a 6 is great, but tank suppression can only get you so far. Other armies excel by having cheap ways to fit lots of special weapons, such as Long Fangs or Veterans, but I don't see Necron troops of having anyway to do that, unless they get a Warscythe with a Necron Lord in there.

From what's been leaked, I feel like it's going to be a mono-build with the Stormlord. Not for his STR 8, but by forcing the enemy to get close to the necrons. This will shut down gun line armies and force them to get close, because they can tear units to shreds in a giant mass of rapid fire weapons. This will also allow the player to focus on repelling CC armies, through use of Lychguard and Wraiths. I see Preatorians being that one unit that could good, there are just better options that could be taken. Scarabs also seem really cool, but with the drop to Beasts, I think most players will have a difficult time getting them to that enemy vehicle. That 2+ cover save for turbo-boosting made scarabs what they are. But all I see are failed fleet rolls and disappointingly accurate blast templates.

Lastly tomb spyders could be a hidden gem, providing a multitude or army wide effects for the player. If it can join squads, they could help weaken psychic powers, spawning units, and repairing vehicles. They could even do a lot more too, depending on how powerful these particle weapons turn out, if it's still a MC. That lash whip like upgrade could also be a powerful boost allowing even basic warriors to swing 1st. This could all be overblown, but even then adding 3 wounds to a squad for less points than they are now sounds very nice. And if someone were to have a power squad, not only would those 3 wounds be great for wound allocation, but that psychic defense could mess some armies up.(What's that Doom/JOTWW/Weaken Resolve/Cleansing Flames?)



This is all speculation, and this could turn out to be completely wrong however....

tl:dr
Stormlord
MSU Immortals
Monoliths
(Tomb Spyders?)

I do think Stormlord will be popular, but just taking two Royal Courts with two Solar Pulses basically shuts down the first 2 turns of your opponent's shooting while leaving you to fire freely, so right there that allows you to get in close to gunline armies and have your Scarabs all over them before they can draw a good bead.

Which is an important distinction, again.

The worlds with awakened Necrons were cleansed of life. Those worlds where they still slumbered(and they did slumber for millions of years, after all) had entire civilizations thrive and flourish over them.

Hey Yak, anything else about the regular Overlord in terms of doodads and toys to give him?

Kanluwen wrote:Which is an important distinction, again.

The worlds with awakened Necrons were cleansed of life. Those worlds where they still slumbered(and they did slumber for millions of years, after all) had entire civilizations thrive and flourish over them.

...Well yes, that was part of my original point. The necrons couldnt wipe the life out if they were asleep. All it takes though is 100ish to wake up to most likely wipe the average planet of life though.

Hox wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Which is an important distinction, again.

The worlds with awakened Necrons were cleansed of life. Those worlds where they still slumbered(and they did slumber for millions of years, after all) had entire civilizations thrive and flourish over them.

...Well yes, that was part of my original point. The necrons couldnt wipe the life out if they were asleep. All it takes though is 100ish to wake up to most likely wipe the average planet of life though.

Given rumors posted, the ability exists now to run 100+ warriors in a 1500 point game.

Silver tide, anyone?

Kanluwen wrote:The worlds with awakened Necrons were cleansed of life. Those worlds where they still slumbered(and they did slumber for millions of years, after all) had entire civilizations thrive and flourish over them.

It's a bit presumptuous to say that all the worlds where the Necrons slept were teeming with life by the time they awoke. It's perfectly reasonable to assume that some of them are as dead now as when the Necrons first hit the snooze button, and the idea of the 'Nids avoiding such worlds isn't far-fetched.

I do think Stormlord will be popular, but just taking two Royal Courts with two Solar Pulses basically shuts down the first 2 turns of your opponent's shooting while leaving you to fire freely, so right there that allows you to get in close to gunline armies and have your Scarabs all over them before they can draw a good bead.

can you confirm thats how the solar pulse works in the new codex? turning on night fighting for the enemy no matter what they shoot at? because in the old codex if used to turn on night fighting it is only effective if the enemy is shooting at the lord using it (or the unit hes in)

"If the night fighting rules are not in use then for the following enemy turn after the solar pulse is used, the night fighting rules will apply to any unit firing at the necron lord (and any unit he has joined)"

BlackMath wrote:
Given rumors posted, the ability exists now to run 100+ warriors in a 1500 point game.

Silver tide, anyone?

Freakishly, I can actually do this...

With the way hth works in a competitive force, probably no. By all means run it in friendlies though, I know ill try it a few times with the 100+ I have lying around.

zacharia wrote:

I do think Stormlord will be popular, but just taking two Royal Courts with two Solar Pulses basically shuts down the first 2 turns of your opponent's shooting while leaving you to fire freely, so right there that allows you to get in close to gunline armies and have your Scarabs all over them before they can draw a good bead.

can you confirm thats how the solar pulse works in the new codex? turning on night fighting for the enemy no matter what they shoot at? because in the old codex if used to turn on night fighting it is only effective if the enemy is shooting at the lord using it (or the unit hes in)

"If the night fighting rules are not in use then for the following enemy turn after the solar pulse is used, the night fighting rules will apply to any unit firing at the necron lord (and any unit he has joined)"

The storm lord makes it night time, but using the Solar pulse makes it day time during your player turn,

If night fighting (no storm lord) is not active it probably does the same thing is does now, which is gives the nightfighting rule to that one unit the cryptek is in.

zacharia wrote:

I do think Stormlord will be popular, but just taking two Royal Courts with two Solar Pulses basically shuts down the first 2 turns of your opponent's shooting while leaving you to fire freely, so right there that allows you to get in close to gunline armies and have your Scarabs all over them before they can draw a good bead.

can you confirm thats how the solar pulse works in the new codex? turning on night fighting for the enemy no matter what they shoot at? because in the old codex if used to turn on night fighting it is only effective if the enemy is shooting at the lord using it (or the unit hes in)

"If the night fighting rules are not in use then for the following enemy turn after the solar pulse is used, the night fighting rules will apply to any unit firing at the necron lord (and any unit he has joined)"

I think you missed the plan here. The stormlord creates nightfighting. The solar pulses allow you to ignore nightfighting for two of your turns. You are not using the pulses to blind the enemy.

Hox wrote:

zacharia wrote:

I do think Stormlord will be popular, but just taking two Royal Courts with two Solar Pulses basically shuts down the first 2 turns of your opponent's shooting while leaving you to fire freely, so right there that allows you to get in close to gunline armies and have your Scarabs all over them before they can draw a good bead.

can you confirm thats how the solar pulse works in the new codex? turning on night fighting for the enemy no matter what they shoot at? because in the old codex if used to turn on night fighting it is only effective if the enemy is shooting at the lord using it (or the unit hes in)

"If the night fighting rules are not in use then for the following enemy turn after the solar pulse is used, the night fighting rules will apply to any unit firing at the necron lord (and any unit he has joined)"

I think you missed the plan here. The stormlord creates nightfighting. The solar pulses allow you to ignore nightfighting for two of your turns. You are not using the pulses to blind the enemy.

The original quote was saying "The Stormlord is nice for that, but you don't need him, you can just Solar Pulse without all the lightning for the same night-fight effects.".

Kurgash wrote:From the new fluff standpoint, when it refers to the Flayed Ones being hunted down and destroyed after an engagement where they show up to add to the chaos of battle, wouldn't that be a moot point really as they would just phase out and be repaired on their home world?

Or has Necron self repair changed in the story to be where it repairs non catastrophic damage to the body but otherwise that Necron is fully DEAD should repairs not be effective? I'm not getting how a bunch of machines can be forever lost if they are able to be just repaired and sent back into the fray?

I would assume Necrons have express knowledge on how to permanently shut down other Necrons. Perhaps they teleport to the Flayed Ones' homeworld and destroy them there. I haven't read "Fall of Damnos" all the way but there was a Cryptek who permanently shut down a rival by keeping a part of him locked in an amulet. There's also a scene where a Necron cannot repair because magnets are repelling his bitz from connecting. So I guess there are some ways to shut down a Necron forever.

Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:

Hox wrote:

zacharia wrote:

I do think Stormlord will be popular, but just taking two Royal Courts with two Solar Pulses basically shuts down the first 2 turns of your opponent's shooting while leaving you to fire freely, so right there that allows you to get in close to gunline armies and have your Scarabs all over them before they can draw a good bead.

can you confirm thats how the solar pulse works in the new codex? turning on night fighting for the enemy no matter what they shoot at? because in the old codex if used to turn on night fighting it is only effective if the enemy is shooting at the lord using it (or the unit hes in)

"If the night fighting rules are not in use then for the following enemy turn after the solar pulse is used, the night fighting rules will apply to any unit firing at the necron lord (and any unit he has joined)"

I think you missed the plan here. The stormlord creates nightfighting. The solar pulses allow you to ignore nightfighting for two of your turns. You are not using the pulses to blind the enemy.

The original quote was saying "The Stormlord is nice for that, but you don't need him, you can just Solar Pulse without all the lightning for the same night-fight effects.".

i think it is a misunderstanding, solar pulse probably does not create nightfighting on the scale of the StormBringer, but may grant it to a unit equipped with a solar pulse if you choose to activate it while it is being shot

tetrisphreak wrote:Open-topped vehicle, my friend. They can fire away from within the comparative safety of the ark.

Having never used any open-topped vehicles, and having never played against anyone fielding an open-topped vehicle, my mind is officially blown.

So... from within a Ghost Ark, the Warriors can shoot at people... can the Warriors be assaulted while they are inside a Ghost Ark?

i think it is a misunderstanding, solar pulse probably does not create nightfighting on the scale of the StormBringer, but may grant it to a unit equipped with a solar pulse if you choose to activate it while it is being shot

That was exactly my point yes. Ive seen several people saying you dont need stormlord to turn on night fighting, just use a solar pulse. Currently that doesnt work except for the unit its with, but as yak said it and has access to a codex i wondered if it had indeed changed and does now work that way in the new one (turning on nightfighting for the enemy no matter what they fire at).

I had a conversation with one of my local games workshops employees which I'm befriend with.

He already has the White dwarf! which includes much Necron info.

To all those that once bought the expensive Pariahs, I've asked if they will ever be useable again. He nodded and said :'You will be able to still use them... I then asked: still as Pariahs? he nodded again

So yeah still pariahs! but maybe this already is old news :p haven't followed all latest rumors :p

He probably just saw the Lychguard and assumed they were Pariahs.

Um, hate to break it to you, but there are no pariahs anymore.

You can, however, use them as lychguard with warscyths.

Hey--those in the know...

What are Trazyn's saves?

2+/3++?

3+/5++?

I'm curious, where in the old fluff did it say that Necrons destroy every living thing on their Tomb Worlds including all bacteria? Because that would basically mean that all Tomb Worlds have no atmosphere at all (as living matter is needed to generate oxegyn) and at the very least I thought that most, if not all, Tomb Worlds in the old fluff still had air.

The Tomb Worlds described in the current codex are lifeless and barren.

In the book Nightbringer, it's mentioned that not even bacteria can be found on a Tomb World.

The Tyranid codex describes the Tyranid unable to find biomass on Tomb Worlds or even the surrounding planets, so they enter hibernation.

Those are the only examples I can find.

EDIT: Grammar fixes.

I'm thinking it's not ALL Tomb Worlds that are barren; just some. Hell, if I remember right, Armageddon has Necron sleeping on it, and that's a populated planet.

azazel the cat wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote:Open-topped vehicle, my friend. They can fire away from within the comparative safety of the ark.

Having never used any open-topped vehicles, and having never played against anyone fielding an open-topped vehicle, my mind is officially blown.

So... from within a Ghost Ark, the Warriors can shoot at people... can the Warriors be assaulted while they are inside a Ghost Ark?

Nah. It's basically like open-topped vehicles have infinite fire points. Those riding inside can shoot out, but those outside can't shoot or assault them.
So you get the shots from all the embarked Warriors, plus the guns on each side. And while inside they're protected, until the opponent blows up the Ark.

Don't look at the Ark!!! Ahhh my face melted!

Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:

azazel the cat wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote:Open-topped vehicle, my friend. They can fire away from within the comparative safety of the ark.

Having never used any open-topped vehicles, and having never played against anyone fielding an open-topped vehicle, my mind is officially blown.

So... from within a Ghost Ark, the Warriors can shoot at people... can the Warriors be assaulted while they are inside a Ghost Ark?

Nah. It's basically like open-topped vehicles have infinite fire points. Those riding inside can shoot out, but those outside can't shoot or assault them.
So you get the shots from all the embarked Warriors, plus the guns on each side. And while inside they're protected, until the opponent blows up the Ark.

The very important thing to note is that open topped vehicles are more fragile to make up for their multitude of advantages.

It is odd that Azazel had never seen open topped, there are very few armies that do not feature at least one of them.

http://www.mwctoys.com/REVIEW_031910a.htm
Get your Death Gli-, er, Night Scythes now!

Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:http://www.mwctoys.com/REVIEW_031910a.htm
Get your Death Gli-, er, Night Scythes now!

Ugly!

Blink wrote:

I'm curious, where in the old fluff did it say that Necrons destroy every living thing on their Tomb Worlds including all bacteria? Because that would basically mean that all Tomb Worlds have no atmosphere at all (as living matter is needed to generate oxegyn) and at the very least I thought that most, if not all, Tomb Worlds in the old fluff still had air.

....stuff...

The Tyranid codex describes the Tyranid unable to find biomass on Tomb Worlds or even the surrounding planets, so they enter hibernation.

...stuff...

Just to point this out...the nid codex actually doesn't say such a thing about being unable to find biomass on other nearby planets. The picture of the galaxy (i assume thats what you're refering to, as it indicates a tomb world) actually notes that the nids do make course corrections to avoid the necrons on the tomb world. Howver, it then states that the fleet goes into hibernation because it cannot find other nutrient rich prey worlds in the area. This implies that the world had life on it, or that nearby worlds have sufficient life on them...however the presence of the necrons detered the hive mind from sending in the fleet.

Thats how I interpret what I'm reading anyways.

lazarian wrote:

Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:

azazel the cat wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote:Open-topped vehicle, my friend. They can fire away from within the comparative safety of the ark.

Having never used any open-topped vehicles, and having never played against anyone fielding an open-topped vehicle, my mind is officially blown.

So... from within a Ghost Ark, the Warriors can shoot at people... can the Warriors be assaulted while they are inside a Ghost Ark?

Nah. It's basically like open-topped vehicles have infinite fire points. Those riding inside can shoot out, but those outside can't shoot or assault them.
So you get the shots from all the embarked Warriors, plus the guns on each side. And while inside they're protected, until the opponent blows up the Ark.

The very important thing to note is that open topped vehicles are more fragile to make up for their multitude of advantages.

It is odd that Azazel had never seen open topped, there are very few armies that do not feature at least one of them.

I've played against SW, they had no open tops. BA, again, no open tops. Vanilla marines, no open tops. Tau, no open tops. Tyranids, no open tops. Demons, again no open tops. GK, still no open tops. CSM, no open tops. And Orks, and I am aware that they do have open tops, but the only person I've ever had play Orks against me did not use anything with an open top against me.

Why is this odd? Half of the armies are some sort of MEQ, and they don't have any open tops.

Quick question does it count the warriors inside the ark as moving when the ark does?

bluebomber wrote:Quick question does it count the warriors inside the ark as moving when the ark does?

If it doesn't, then my opinion of the Ghost Ark is changing toward the positive, very quickly.

I envision sending two fully-stocked Ghost Arks to unleash broadsides attacks, and once the Ghost Arks are destroyed, using two Monoliths to teleport the crews back to a safe distance.

azazel the cat wrote:

bluebomber wrote:Quick question does it count the warriors inside the ark as moving when the ark does?

If it doesn't, then my opinion of the Ghost Ark is changing toward the positive, very quickly.

I envision sending two fully-stocked Ghost Arks to unleash broadsides attacks, and once the Ghost Arks are destroyed, using two Monoliths to teleport the crews back to a safe distance.

Im not sure if because its a skimmer that would help or not i was just asking about open tops in general

Teufelhunde wrote:

Blink wrote:

I'm curious, where in the old fluff did it say that Necrons destroy every living thing on their Tomb Worlds including all bacteria? Because that would basically mean that all Tomb Worlds have no atmosphere at all (as living matter is needed to generate oxegyn) and at the very least I thought that most, if not all, Tomb Worlds in the old fluff still had air.

....stuff...

The Tyranid codex describes the Tyranid unable to find biomass on Tomb Worlds or even the surrounding planets, so they enter hibernation.

...stuff...

Just to point this out...the nid codex actually doesn't say such a thing about being unable to find biomass on other nearby planets. The picture of the galaxy (i assume thats what you're refering to, as it indicates a tomb world) actually notes that the nids do make course corrections to avoid the necrons on the tomb world. Howver, it then states that the fleet goes into hibernation because it cannot find other nutrient rich prey worlds in the area. This implies that the world had life on it, or that nearby worlds have sufficient life on them...however the presence of the necrons detered the hive mind from sending in the fleet.

Thats how I interpret what I'm reading anyways.

That might be right. It's vaguely worded.

I think only SOME of the Tomb Worlds are devoid of life.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tomb_World#.Tqpij0Pqc4X

This seems to support that. Also it seems it was the Deus Ex Mechanicus book I was referring to earlier.

bluebomber wrote:

azazel the cat wrote:

bluebomber wrote:Quick question does it count the warriors inside the ark as moving when the ark does?

If it doesn't, then my opinion of the Ghost Ark is changing toward the positive, very quickly.

I envision sending two fully-stocked Ghost Arks to unleash broadsides attacks, and once the Ghost Arks are destroyed, using two Monoliths to teleport the crews back to a safe distance.

Im not sure if because its a skimmer that would help or not i was just asking about open tops in general

I just looked in the big red book. It's under transport vehicles. It say's that you treat the troops inside as moving if the vehicle has moved 6" or less. Your troops may not shoot at all if moving at cruising speed. However the ghost ark will be capable of moving 6" and firing as if it hadn't moved at all. In affect giving half your flayer guns in your army the relentless rule.

hollowmirror wrote:

bluebomber wrote:

azazel the cat wrote:

bluebomber wrote:Quick question does it count the warriors inside the ark as moving when the ark does?

If it doesn't, then my opinion of the Ghost Ark is changing toward the positive, very quickly.

I envision sending two fully-stocked Ghost Arks to unleash broadsides attacks, and once the Ghost Arks are destroyed, using two Monoliths to teleport the crews back to a safe distance.

Im not sure if because its a skimmer that would help or not i was just asking about open tops in general

I just looked in the big red book. It's under transport vehicles. It say's that you treat the troops inside as moving if the vehicle has moved 6" or less. Your troops may not shoot at all if moving at cruising speed. However the ghost ark will be capable of moving 6" and firing as if it hadn't moved at all. In affect giving half your flayer guns in your army the relentless rule.

ok thats very cool so 12 inchs first turn 6 second then blam

So im wondering then can the doomsday ark move 6 inchs and still fire the large blast?

If it moves the Doomsday Ark's weapon is reduced to 24" S7 AP4 Large Blast

asimo77 wrote:If it moves the Doomsday Ark's weapon is reduced to 24" S7 AP4 Large Blast

Small Blast, according to the WD. Which is a crippler.

Oh man small? The Doomsday Ark seems kinda pointless tbh. It's like a worse Hammerhead.

It's cheaper than a Hammerhead at least.

Blink wrote:It's cheaper than a Hammerhead at least.

Also it lacks the disadvantage of myopic Tau crews.

I am definitely taking 1 - its a very useful area denial tool, and with armour 13 its reasonably tough.

Anyway, I think most of the hate will go towards the monolith.

I am waiting to see what the 3rd will be based on how tomb spyders are now - might not even take it.

Fast attack is going to be wraiths with whips (escort to destroyer lord), heavy destroyers and 10 scarab bases.

I know a lot of people are iffy on H-Destroyers, but 3 lascannons hitting in the side armour of vehicles is going to be nasty, and it helps weaken such foes as thunder hammer termies.

zacharia wrote:

i think it is a misunderstanding, solar pulse probably does not create nightfighting on the scale of the StormBringer, but may grant it to a unit equipped with a solar pulse if you choose to activate it while it is being shot

That was exactly my point yes. Ive seen several people saying you dont need stormlord to turn on night fighting, just use a solar pulse. Currently that doesnt work except for the unit its with, but as yak said it and has access to a codex i wondered if it had indeed changed and does now work that way in the new one (turning on nightfighting for the enemy no matter what they fire at).

Yes, the Solar Pulse has changed. If used during Night Fighting, then it cancels Night Fighting for that turn (which means player turn per the rulebook FAQ). If used when Night Fighting is not in effect, then it creates Night Fighting for that turn (which again means player turn).

So a Solar Pulse (or a max of two that can be taken in the army) can be used to effectively force two of your opponent's shooting phases to use the Night Fighting rules even without the Stormlord being part of the army.

And if you use the Stormlord, you can utilize the Solar Pulses to either make two of your own shooting phases NOT use Night Fighting, or save the Solar Pulses for if/when his Night Fighting ends to punish the opponent with two more of their shooting phases suffer from Night Fighting.

Yes, the Solar Pulse has changed. If used during Night Fighting, then it cancels Night Fighting for that turn (which means player turn per the rulebook FAQ). If used when Night Fighting is not in effect, then it creates Night Fighting for that turn (which again means player turn).

So a Solar Pulse (or a max of two that can be taken in the army) can be used to effectively force two of your opponent's shooting phases to use the Night Fighting rules even without the Stormlord being part of the army.

And if you use the Stormlord, you can utilize the Solar Pulses to either make two of your own shooting phases NOT use Night Fighting, or save the Solar Pulses for if/when his Night Fighting ends to punish the opponent with two more of their shooting phases suffer from Night Fighting.

Thanks for the change confirmation

Wait, where was it said that the Warscythe still rolls 2D6 for armor penetration?

And is there anything to suggest the Flayed Ones have any kind of "Terrifying Visage" special rule still?

Does anyone know if they are selling boxes of scarabs by themselves with the new dex? or will they still come with the warrior box?

If you ebay now you can get cheap scarabs in quantity.

EDIT: Anyone know where I can get 3 wraiths at a reasonable price? Can't find them anywhere.

shadzinator wrote:Does anyone know if they are selling boxes of scarabs by themselves with the new dex? or will they still come with the warrior box?

They still come in the warrior box, which is still a box of 12.

They have the old metal ones on the GW site.

one week left! and then.... I watch every local kid at my store by necrons... then sell them a week later

Darligulv wrote:

Death By Monkeys wrote:

Anpu-adom wrote:Anyone have a plan for dealing with units that have Invulnerable saves?
I mean, a drive-by with a Monolith and making them take a strength test...
Running the numbers (which is always dangerous for me) even a full squad of Heavy Destroyers are only expected to take out 2 normal Termies a round of shooting... and that isn't the TH/SS variety.
Do we have and CC options that can stand toe-to-toe?

Wraiths: 40 pts, S6, Rending, Jump Infantry, Ignore Terrain, 3++ save, 3 Attacks base, 2 Wounds, equipment to allow Wound Allocation shenanigans. I2 sucks, but the 3++ save definitely helps here. Seems to me they could go toe-to-toe vs. most Assault Troops, including TH/SS Terminators (heck, they'd even get to go first against them!)

Any word on how expensive those Whips are?

Ran some numbers (dangerous as always). Wraiths would indeed destroy a squad of termies... it'd just take a full squad 4 rounds to kill 5 TH/SS, and 8 rounds to kill 10. Not ideal. 2 Rounds to kill 5 w/out TH/SS, and 6 rounds to kill 10 w/out TH/SS. Better, but still not a good use for your wraiths.

What are we loooking at for points on the Doom Scythes? Judging from the 175 point price tag on the Doomsday Arc, I'm guessing in the 200-225 range.

EDIT: ah, nm missed the bit in the originl post of being almost 200 points, so 190-195 most likely.

azazel the cat wrote:

lazarian wrote:

Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:

azazel the cat wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote:Open-topped vehicle, my friend. They can fire away from within the comparative safety of the ark.

Having never used any open-topped vehicles, and having never played against anyone fielding an open-topped vehicle, my mind is officially blown.

So... from within a Ghost Ark, the Warriors can shoot at people... can the Warriors be assaulted while they are inside a Ghost Ark?

Nah. It's basically like open-topped vehicles have infinite fire points. Those riding inside can shoot out, but those outside can't shoot or assault them.
So you get the shots from all the embarked Warriors, plus the guns on each side. And while inside they're protected, until the opponent blows up the Ark.

The very important thing to note is that open topped vehicles are more fragile to make up for their multitude of advantages.

It is odd that Azazel had never seen open topped, there are very few armies that do not feature at least one of them.

I've played against SW, they had no open tops. BA, again, no open tops. Vanilla marines, no open tops. Tau, no open tops. Tyranids, no open tops. Demons, again no open tops. GK, still no open tops. CSM, no open tops. And Orks, and I am aware that they do have open tops, but the only person I've ever had play Orks against me did not use anything with an open top against me.

Why is this odd? Half of the armies are some sort of MEQ, and they don't have any open tops.

Tau does actually have an open topped vehicle. The pirahna.

BarBoBot wrote:

azazel the cat wrote:

lazarian wrote:

Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:

azazel the cat wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote:Open-topped vehicle, my friend. They can fire away from within the comparative safety of the ark.

Having never used any open-topped vehicles, and having never played against anyone fielding an open-topped vehicle, my mind is officially blown.

So... from within a Ghost Ark, the Warriors can shoot at people... can the Warriors be assaulted while they are inside a Ghost Ark?

Nah. It's basically like open-topped vehicles have infinite fire points. Those riding inside can shoot out, but those outside can't shoot or assault them.
So you get the shots from all the embarked Warriors, plus the guns on each side. And while inside they're protected, until the opponent blows up the Ark.

The very important thing to note is that open topped vehicles are more fragile to make up for their multitude of advantages.

It is odd that Azazel had never seen open topped, there are very few armies that do not feature at least one of them.

I've played against SW, they had no open tops. BA, again, no open tops. Vanilla marines, no open tops. Tau, no open tops. Tyranids, no open tops. Demons, again no open tops. GK, still no open tops. CSM, no open tops. And Orks, and I am aware that they do have open tops, but the only person I've ever had play Orks against me did not use anything with an open top against me.

Why is this odd? Half of the armies are some sort of MEQ, and they don't have any open tops.

Tau does actually have an open topped vehicle. The pirahna.

And landspeeders. Those are also open topped.

frgsinwntr wrote:one week left! and then.... I watch every local kid at my store by necrons... then sell them a week later

I can see a lot of kids doing the same at my gw. But I'm buying some lynchguard, and that's it. I'm keeping my foot army. And I see having stormlord plus 2 solar pulses in an army is going to be helpful.

yakface wrote:

zacharia wrote:

i think it is a misunderstanding, solar pulse probably does not create nightfighting on the scale of the StormBringer, but may grant it to a unit equipped with a solar pulse if you choose to activate it while it is being shot

That was exactly my point yes. Ive seen several people saying you dont need stormlord to turn on night fighting, just use a solar pulse. Currently that doesnt work except for the unit its with, but as yak said it and has access to a codex i wondered if it had indeed changed and does now work that way in the new one (turning on nightfighting for the enemy no matter what they fire at).

Yes, the Solar Pulse has changed. If used during Night Fighting, then it cancels Night Fighting for that turn (which means player turn per the rulebook FAQ). If used when Night Fighting is not in effect, then it creates Night Fighting for that turn (which again means player turn).

So a Solar Pulse (or a max of two that can be taken in the army) can be used to effectively force two of your opponent's shooting phases to use the Night Fighting rules even without the Stormlord being part of the army.

And if you use the Stormlord, you can utilize the Solar Pulses to either make two of your own shooting phases NOT use Night Fighting, or save the Solar Pulses for if/when his Night Fighting ends to punish the opponent with two more of their shooting phases suffer from Night Fighting.

How would you use a solar pulse in the enemy turn though? Might be a noobish question

Robbietobbie wrote:
How would you use a solar pulse in the enemy turn though? Might be a noobish question

It's rules specify that it can be used at the start of any turn (which means player turn).

I think the stormlords ability to seize initiative on a 4+ will see little use. You would always choose to play second in order to have an extra turn of nightfighting imposed on the enemy.

copper.talos wrote:I think the stormlords ability to seize initiative on a 4+ will see little use. You would always choose to play second in order to have an extra turn of nightfighting imposed on the enemy.

I don't know - the chance to deploy second, seize the initiative, and then alpha strike (using a solar pulse) while what's left of the enemy sits in the dark trying to shoot back could be a solid tactic.

Hmm one thing I didn't think about. The stormlords ability starts at the start of the game OR at the start of the necron player's turn? Yakface any hints on this?

Too bad this Lord is not coming back in finecast recast...



He looks awsome, I would love to have him as Cryptec in my army. Any1 knows when and in what form exatly he was avilable?
Collector's guide says : "This Necron Lord was the special edition miniature in the 2002 Necron army set." meaning he was included in some box set?
Anyway, can't find him anywhere on ebay :(

Please tell me the Lychguard have a 2+ armour save or have a super high statline I need to know why they cost 40 points.

Herr Dexter wrote:Too bad this Lord is not coming back in finecast recast...



He looks awsome, I would love to have him as Cryptec in my army. Any1 knows when and in what form exatly he was avilable?
Collector's guide says : "This Necron Lord was the special edition miniature in the 2002 Necron army set." meaning he was included in some box set?
Anyway, can't find him anywhere on ebay :(

Everytime I see him on eBay, he is very pricey $$$$$, sorry

Because they have I2 and that's overpowered (hint: sarcasm)

I can handle I2 as long as they have a good armour save.

aboytervigon wrote:Please tell me the Lychguard have a 2+ armour save or have a super high statline I need to know why they cost 40 points.

If I recall correctly they are S5 T5 with A2 and a 3+.. I would guess at WS4 as well. So something like WS4 BS4 S5 T5 W1 I2 A2 LD10 3+ would be my best guess. But I could be completely wrong.

Herr Dexter wrote:Too bad this Lord is not coming back in finecast recast...



He looks awsome, I would love to have him as Cryptec in my army. Any1 knows when and in what form exatly he was avilable?
Collector's guide says : "This Necron Lord was the special edition miniature in the 2002 Necron army set." meaning he was included in some box set?
Anyway, can't find him anywhere on ebay :(

There's at least one on eBay, listed for £40. Those Lords are very rare now, but they do pop up every now and then going for ridiculous prices.

Is Entropic Strike on Scarab Swarms confirmed? One guy who got his WD yesterday claims 'no armour eroding on scarabs'.

Wow, same statline as Pariahs for less rules and more points.

Herr Dexter wrote:He looks awsome, I would love to have him as Cryptec in my army. Any1 knows when and in what form exatly he was avilable?
Collector's guide says : "This Necron Lord was the special edition miniature in the 2002 Necron army set." meaning he was included in some box set?
Anyway, can't find him anywhere on ebay :(

He would have been in the army starter box which cost £120 or something, I forget. You got a heap of stuff and the codex and an exclusive figure. All the exclusive figures from these bulk army sets are collectible.

aboytervigon wrote:Wow, same statline as Pariahs for less rules and more points.

Pariah were not S5/T5 were they? They also had 1 attack and no equipment options. Lychguard on the other hand have access to an invulnerable save or a +2S Warscythe. And no shooting. Oh, and they have RP now. No, they're not the same at all.

Herr Dexter wrote:Too bad this Lord is not coming back in finecast recast...



He looks awsome, I would love to have him as Cryptec in my army. Any1 knows when and in what form exatly he was avilable?
Collector's guide says : "This Necron Lord was the special edition miniature in the 2002 Necron army set." meaning he was included in some box set?
Anyway, can't find him anywhere on ebay :(

I got ahold of one just recently in a trade. He was a limited edition lord that was only ever available in the old equivalent to a battle/megaforce.

Best of luck finding one!

woodbok wrote:

frgsinwntr wrote:one week left! and then.... I watch every local kid at my store by necrons... then sell them a week later

I can see a lot of kids doing the same at my gw. But I'm buying some lynchguard, and that's it. I'm keeping my foot army. And I see having stormlord plus 2 solar pulses in an army is going to be helpful.

See I like 'flashes in the pan' because you then buy it off them assembled and discounted... win/win.

I say that because I was getting back into Necrons only about two months ago and picked up 4000 (now 2500-ish) from two pissed off 'flash' Necron players for $200 and a 35pt. Warmachine army...

whigwam wrote:

aboytervigon wrote:Wow, same statline as Pariahs for less rules and more points.

Pariah were not S5/T5 were they? They also had 1 attack and no equipment options. Lychguard on the other hand have access to an invulnerable save or a +2S Warscythe. And no shooting. Oh, and they have RP now. No, they're not the same at all.

Pariahs had wargear, the warscythe just wasn't "optional" but it ignoring invulns and gettign 2d6 pen was in most cases alot better than a +2 str power weapon.

Balor wrote:Oh cool I was starting to get worried that the Necrons were going to get that bad mix of design theory. Part of the current edition and next edition but be left in the dust as something that fits outside of them both. Example 40k daemons and WHFB Beastmen

Honestly, this may already be the case. We may be overcosted for the current addition, but not as optimized as the 6th edition books to follow.

For example, is the destroyer current cost including the power they will have in 6th?
Or the deathmarks? (who are incredibly underwhelming without any codex special rules).
Or the nightscythe?

We will be paying more points now, in 5th for a hybrid, and behind the curve.
Then when 6th comes out, we will be behind the curve for the books written explicitly (i.e marines) for 6th that were not hybrid.

While, yes, including certain types of units may be good (i.e. we have two flyers), setting hybrid specific costs or abilities is bad.
How hard would it be to just add in the 6th update FAQ "destroyers are not 40 points, and have preferred enemy".

Hopefully GW will be releasing rules updates for all armies when 6th drops...as they should be doing regularly now.

Bulkoth wrote:Pariahs had wargear, the warscythe just wasn't "optional" but it ignoring invulns and gettign 2d6 pen was in most cases alot better than a +2 str power weapon.

Ignoring invulns is a big loss, but it should have been expected. With A1, it's not like Pariah were taking Hammernators out left and right. Since Lychguard can take their own 3++, it looks like they have a shot. Others in this thread had run the numbers on that combat...I believe it was almost an even match between the two.

And I thought I'd read Warscythe still gives 2D6 pen. If that's true...2+1A each at S7+2D6 = Lychguard will do much better against vehicles.

Apparently Entropic Strike is an upgrade, can someone confirm this? Does that take them above 15 points each?

I haven't seen Yakface or anyone post that Entropic Strike is an option for Scarabs. I would assume that it is part of their normal cost.

So i rushed to the store today to pick-up the new white dwarf. And yes, it was the necron edition.

Just buy the magazine it has some great new info!

Here some pics: (will remove them if deemed needed)

N.I.B. wrote:Apparently Entropic Strike is an upgrade, can someone confirm this? Does that take them above 15 points each?

There are people on this forum so far, that have their WD. I Imagine they would have said something about this, if true.

Sasori wrote:

N.I.B. wrote:Apparently Entropic Strike is an upgrade, can someone confirm this? Does that take them above 15 points each?

There are people on this forum so far, that have their WD. I Imagine they would have said something about this, if true.

I just skimmed through it and there is no mention of entropic strike begin an upgrade. There's hardly any mention of the scarabs anyway

Robbietobbie wrote:

Sasori wrote:

N.I.B. wrote:Apparently Entropic Strike is an upgrade, can someone confirm this? Does that take them above 15 points each?

There are people on this forum so far, that have their WD. I Imagine they would have said something about this, if true.

I just skimmed through it and there is no mention of entropic strike begin an upgrade. There's hardly any mention of the scarabs anyway

Yeah, they didn't even use scarabs in the battle report.. really just used all the new stuff minus the warriors.

TheNightbringer wrote:So i rushed to the store today to pick-up the new white dwarf. And yes, it was the necron edition.

Just buy the magazine it has some great new info!

Here some pics: (will remove them if deemed needed)

That first Dynasty symbol on the left looks like the symbol from the teaser video.

Bulkoth wrote:

Herr Dexter wrote:Too bad this Lord is not coming back in finecast recast...



He looks awsome, I would love to have him as Cryptec in my army. Any1 knows when and in what form exatly he was avilable?
Collector's guide says : "This Necron Lord was the special edition miniature in the 2002 Necron army set." meaning he was included in some box set?
Anyway, can't find him anywhere on ebay :(

I got ahold of one just recently in a trade. He was a limited edition lord that was only ever available in the old equivalent to a battle/megaforce.

Best of luck finding one!

Yeah I found one on ebay in April for about $50. A large chunk of change but as a Necron player, I felt I had to have him for my collection. Channeled a bit of Trazyn right there...

The White Dwarf article discussed only the models that were released in the first wave. If you haven't seen a model for it, it didn't come up in conversation. Part of the very specific sales approach. While scarabs, Night Scythes, and Walkers might be the coolest thing since sliced bread, you won't know that from the magazine.
That said, there are some really neat paint jobs, and would sure like to know how to acheive the 'ceramic' style paint jobs that were used on some of the sample models.

Scarabs get a photo shot and are mentioned as being included in the Warriors box on P66-67.

I suspect they were not included in the battle rep just to make way for the newer models while warriors were included for their core role.

Edited for typo

I have to say, the Doomsday/Ghost Arks look like a lot of awesome. They make great aesthetic additions to any Necron force. They have a very unique model and are nearly as intimidating as the Monoliths with all those guns on each side. Can't wait to grab some!

Rear armor 11 vehicles are going to be interesting. Since now your MEQs can't touch them.

yakface wrote:

zacharia wrote:

i think it is a misunderstanding, solar pulse probably does not create nightfighting on the scale of the StormBringer, but may grant it to a unit equipped with a solar pulse if you choose to activate it while it is being shot

That was exactly my point yes. Ive seen several people saying you dont need stormlord to turn on night fighting, just use a solar pulse. Currently that doesnt work except for the unit its with, but as yak said it and has access to a codex i wondered if it had indeed changed and does now work that way in the new one (turning on nightfighting for the enemy no matter what they fire at).

Yes, the Solar Pulse has changed. If used during Night Fighting, then it cancels Night Fighting for that turn (which means player turn per the rulebook FAQ). If used when Night Fighting is not in effect, then it creates Night Fighting for that turn (which again means player turn).

So a Solar Pulse (or a max of two that can be taken in the army) can be used to effectively force two of your opponent's shooting phases to use the Night Fighting rules even without the Stormlord being part of the army.

And if you use the Stormlord, you can utilize the Solar Pulses to either make two of your own shooting phases NOT use Night Fighting, or save the Solar Pulses for if/when his Night Fighting ends to punish the opponent with two more of their shooting phases suffer from Night Fighting.

Are you afraid of the dark?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jitg-3xbmKU

Timmah wrote:Rear armor 11 vehicles are going to be interesting. Since now your MEQs can't touch them.

Well, my problem tends to be that those MEQ's more likely than not have either a PF (or equivalent) or Melta Grenades in the squad. (I know I was always nervous when one of my CSM squads didn't have a fist)

Then, for marines in particular, the Krak Grenades are one of the most overlooked piece of wargear, and EVERY marine has them.

GiantSlingshot wrote:

Timmah wrote:Rear armor 11 vehicles are going to be interesting. Since now your MEQs can't touch them.

Well, my problem tends to be that those MEQ's more likely than not have either a PF (or equivalent) or Melta Grenades in the squad. (I know I was always nervous when one of my CSM squads didn't have a fist)

Then, for marines in particular, the Krak Grenades are one of the most overlooked piece of wargear, and EVERY marine has them.

Excellent point. So in reality, this rear 11 really only shafts Tau and Nids...which is ok, as they were totally overpowered anyway.

MEQ without grenades won't be able to try for the immobilize on a glance against these vehicles though.

It's not a huge deal, but it will come into play. Especially against nids probably.

One of those pics looks like it has the scorpion stalker model in it but it's blurry!!!

What time do the preorders go up normally on the GW site? Midnight or later on?

masterofstuff1 wrote:One of those pics looks like it has the scorpion stalker model in it but it's blurry!!!

I've read through the WD a couple times.. and unfortunately no walker in site : (
Some pretty killer paint jobs though.

Okay, so for my own idle curiosity, how are people building Stormlord lists taking 2 solar pulses without taking a second overlord? you can only take 1 Royal Court per Overlord, I see a lot of you theoryhammering the game with the stormlord and 2 royal courts, which is flat out impossible without the investment in a second overlord given the current rumors...

Oh and pariahs did have S5/T5.

chaos0xomega wrote:Okay, so for my own idle curiosity, how are people building Stormlord lists taking 2 solar pulses without taking a second overlord? you can only take 1 Royal Court per Overlord, I see a lot of you theoryhammering the game with the stormlord and 2 royal courts, which is flat out impossible without the investment in a second overlord given the current rumors...

AFAIK, Special Characters that are overlords (e.g. Stormlord) can take a royal court too.

Just Dave wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:Okay, so for my own idle curiosity, how are people building Stormlord lists taking 2 solar pulses without taking a second overlord? you can only take 1 Royal Court per Overlord, I see a lot of you theoryhammering the game with the stormlord and 2 royal courts, which is flat out impossible without the investment in a second overlord given the current rumors...

AFAIK, Special Characters that are overlords (e.g. Stormlord) can take a royal court too.

Yes, but you can only take 1 royal court per overlord... You would need the second overlord to take the second court and get the second solar pulse.

Which is what people are planning isn't it?
If they're not, then I agree with you!

aboytervigon wrote:Oh and pariahs did have S5/T5.

Indeed, I was incorrect there. Clearly it's been awhile since I've pulled them out of the case!
Still, I think the main thing that puts Lychguard over Pariah is the 3++ and access to RP (extra attack isn't bad either). Pariah had their uses, but they were very fragile for their price. Launching an assault with them was too often a massive gamble (will they survive to make their I3 attacks?...and then, will their tiny number of attacks wiff?). I liked Pariah a lot, but there was a reason they were widely reviled as a waste of points.

The big question for me with Lychguard is whether they'll be as effective as Wraiths. From what I've seen so far, it seems like Wraiths will do the same job better. Also, IMO, better models. But eh, I suppose we'll have to wait and see the codex. Seems like more than a few things are uncertain at this time.

whigwam wrote:

aboytervigon wrote:Oh and pariahs did have S5/T5.

Indeed, I was incorrect there. Clearly it's been awhile since I've pulled them out of the case!
Still, I think the main thing that puts Lychguard over Pariah is the 3++ and access to RP (extra attack isn't bad either). Pariah had their uses, but they were very fragile for their price. Launching an assault with them was too often a massive gamble (will they survive to make their I3 attacks?...and then, will their tiny number of attacks wiff?). I liked Pariah a lot, but there was a reason they were widely reviled as a waste of points.

The big question for me with Lychguard is whether they'll be as effective as Wraiths. From what I've seen so far, it seems like Wraiths will do the same job better. Also, IMO, better models. But eh, I suppose we'll have to wait and see the codex. Seems like more than a few things are uncertain at this time.

rumors have lycheguard shields at 4++ not 3. But that with RP will give them a survivability edge for sure. But just like pariahs you have no reliable way to get them into combat

Khornatedemon wrote:

whigwam wrote:

aboytervigon wrote:Oh and pariahs did have S5/T5.

Indeed, I was incorrect there. Clearly it's been awhile since I've pulled them out of the case!
Still, I think the main thing that puts Lychguard over Pariah is the 3++ and access to RP (extra attack isn't bad either). Pariah had their uses, but they were very fragile for their price. Launching an assault with them was too often a massive gamble (will they survive to make their I3 attacks?...and then, will their tiny number of attacks wiff?). I liked Pariah a lot, but there was a reason they were widely reviled as a waste of points.

The big question for me with Lychguard is whether they'll be as effective as Wraiths. From what I've seen so far, it seems like Wraiths will do the same job better. Also, IMO, better models. But eh, I suppose we'll have to wait and see the codex. Seems like more than a few things are uncertain at this time.

rumors have lycheguard shields at 4++ not 3. But that with RP will give them a survivability edge for sure. But just like pariahs you have no reliable way to get them into combat

Lycheguard can take a Night Scythe, which can move Supersonic. That's fairly reliable, and certainly more so than anything Pariahs ever had.

The other thing people are forgetting is one of the big problems with Pariahs is you pretty much had to make the opposition come to them, as they were stuck footslogging. Lychguard on the other hand have a variety of methods of circumventing the 6"+run limitation.

Edit: ninja'd...also you have the ability to suck them forward through a monolith, or attach a lord with VoD to them.

And you could use veil of darkness with lychguard.

Khornatedemon wrote:rumors have lycheguard shields at 4++ not 3. But that with RP will give them a survivability edge for sure. But just like pariahs you have no reliable way to get them into combat

Er, yes, thank you. I played against a bunch of TH/SS the other night, so 3++ is on the brain.
They do seem to have that problem, yes. I suppose they could hide, then jump through a Monolith, but if that means forgoing shooting the Whip...eh... Like I said, I'm not really decided on either Lychguard or Wraiths. I may very well take neither.

*Edit: ninja'd by other people with better ideas.

Edit: already mentioned

But the fact remains there pariahs with a worse statline and no shooting for more points.

aboytervigon wrote:Edit: already mentioned

But the fact remains there pariahs with a worse statline and no shooting for more points.

No, it doesn't. They don't have a Worse Statline. The fact is, they can take a 4++ Shield that reflects shooting, have a 3+ save, and Reanimation protocols. Pariahs would easily be killed before they even had a chance to swing before, not to mention easily with shooting. The Warscythe has changed, but that affects more than just the Lycheguard.

aboytervigon wrote:Edit: already mentioned

But the fact remains there pariahs with a worse statline and no shooting for more points.

I'm going to be using them with "honor" hero to try to give them furious charge (or counter attack). Str 8 power weapons on charge at I3 that may or may not give 2D6 pen. Give them some shield men in the group to take some of the heavy hits... I'll have to see if they are worth it, but at this point I only care if they will be fun. : P

Do you think the rumoured statline of

WS4 BS4 S5 T5 I2 A2 LD10 3+SV

is worth 40 points?

There nice models but I don't know if there good enough...If they have WS5 and can take warsycthe guys and shield guys then I will use them.

aboytervigon wrote:Do you think the rumoured statline of

WS4 BS4 S5 T5 I2 A2 LD10 3+SV

is worth 40 points?

There nice models but I don't know if there good enough...If they have WS5 and can take warsycthe guys and shield guys then I will use them.

Looks fine to me.

A guard with the shield is about as hardy as a TH/SS termy. No really, I tested it.

I would think they could mix the two different kinds of troops..but since it really hasn't been confirmed I'll just have to wait and see. From the math earlier they are about on par with termies with hammers and shields. I'm more wanting them for some anti-pali attack.. but that's just because I fight them all the time.

I'll also hope for WS 5, that would give them an even better spot against some MEQ.

EDIT: The thing I'm trying to ponder now is how to get them into combat faster. There may be several ways, but what would be the best..

aboytervigon wrote:Do you think the rumoured statline of

WS4 BS4 S5 T5 I2 A2 LD10 3+SV

is worth 40 points?

There nice models but I don't know if there good enough...If they have WS5 and can take warsycthe guys and shield guys then I will use them.

If you take them with the Power weapon, and Dispersion shield, then yes, I think they are worth it.

Sasori wrote:

aboytervigon wrote:Do you think the rumoured statline of

WS4 BS4 S5 T5 I2 A2 LD10 3+SV

is worth 40 points?

There nice models but I don't know if there good enough...If they have WS5 and can take warsycthe guys and shield guys then I will use them.

If you take them with the Power weapon, and Dispersion shield, then yes, I think they are worth it.

Not to mention that even if you don't, they will have a S7 power weapon that apparently has 2d6 pen against vehicles.

It that confirmed, BTW?

here's something that may be interesting, in regards to Deathmarks: do they arrive via deep strike, or do they just appear on the board (when using their immediate deployment schtick)? DS rules don't seem to be specific on which turn it happens, saying "that turn," and units can shoot on the turn that they arrive, with normal movement penalties.

would this work? i'm still pretty green, so i don't know if there are any other units that arrive from reserves during the enemy turn, but maybe Deathmarks can take advantage of this? its certainly very iffy.

I think the ting that will make or break them is if the whole squad has to switch between warscythes and the 4++. The best method to me seems like a combination of the 2.

As much as I want a invulnerable save, I don't want to lose all that power I could get from the +2 STR. Now if they are STR 5 that won't be as a much of a problem, but if they're STR4 than it could be an issue.

BSent wrote:I think the ting that will make or break them is if the whole squad has to switch between warscythes and the 4++. The best method to me seems like a combination of the 2.

As much as I want a invulnerable save, I don't want to lose all that power I could get from the +2 STR. Now if they are STR 5 that won't be as a much of a problem, but if they're STR4 than it could be an issue.

It seems like they had been confirmed as S5/T5 for a while.

I agree that they will be worth the 40 pts if they end up with the S5 T5 stats. Plus I can use my 10 Pariah that I have nicely painted and sitting around.


What do you all think about Flayed Ones? So 13pts ish and can go up to 20 strong. Twenty of them out flanking might not be bad or using them as a speed bump.

Balor wrote:I agree that they will be worth the 40 pts if they end up with the S5 T5 stats. Plus I can use my 10 Pariah that I have nicely painted and sitting around.


What do you all think about Flayed Ones? So 13pts ish and can go up to 20 strong. Twenty of them out flanking might not be bad or using them as a speed bump.

They take up a valuable slot. I think if they were troops, they would be taken but not in the Elite slot.

I forgot they could outflank, Could be handy.

Anyone know if Scarabs can still DS?

It would have made a lot more sense to make flayed ones troops and keep immortals elite.

That way you get a cc troop and elite option and a ranged troop and elite option, to give more varied lists, rather than no cc troop and no ranged elite.

Balor wrote:I agree that they will be worth the 40 pts if they end up with the S5 T5 stats. Plus I can use my 10 Pariah that I have nicely painted and sitting around.


What do you all think about Flayed Ones? So 13pts ish and can go up to 20 strong. Twenty of them out flanking might not be bad or using them as a speed bump.

Personally, I've never been a fan. Maybe if they had Fleet to make them a little faster. But as they stand now, well, I've never sat around and thought, "boy, I sure to wish the Necrons had I2 termagaunts!".

hmmm interesting

Well where do you all place the elites at this point in priority?

Stalker seems a auto include for me.

Deathmarks just don't seem that great with the cost vs. the range and the weapon type.

Lychguard might be good depending on upgrades and stat line.

Ptaetorians don't seem all that great but they look cool.

Shard might rock or be stupid overpriced for what you get.

zacharia wrote:It would have made a lot more sense to make flayed ones troops and keep immortals elite.

Actually, I'd say it would make more sense for Flayed Ones to not occupy a FoC slot; fluff and game-wise.

Just Dave wrote:

zacharia wrote:It would have made a lot more sense to make flayed ones troops and keep immortals elite.

Actually, I'd say it would make more sense for Flayed Ones to not occupy a FoC slot; fluff and game-wise.

Why do you say that?

Silly concept?

whigwam wrote:

aboytervigon wrote:Oh and pariahs did have S5/T5.

Indeed, I was incorrect there. Clearly it's been awhile since I've pulled them out of the case!
Still, I think the main thing that puts Lychguard over Pariah is the 3++ and access to RP (extra attack isn't bad either). Pariah had their uses, but they were very fragile for their price. Launching an assault with them was too often a massive gamble (will they survive to make their I3 attacks?...and then, will their tiny number of attacks wiff?). I liked Pariah a lot, but there was a reason they were widely reviled as a waste of points.

tbh you only played pariahs for their lds 7 bubble and break the deceiver abilities... though i liked the fluff very very much...

Out of curiosity, anyone know if there is a fluff explanation for the disappearance of the Pariahs/if the warp is still 'anathema' to the Necrons/C'tan

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Just Dave wrote:

zacharia wrote:It would have made a lot more sense to make flayed ones troops and keep immortals elite.

Actually, I'd say it would make more sense for Flayed Ones to not occupy a FoC slot; fluff and game-wise.

Why do you say that?

Silly concept?

A 13pts close-combat, initiative 2 troop choice isn't worth it to compete with Warriors and they don't actually fulfill a 'troop' role in that they don't form the core of Necron armies, whilst they aren't really that elite either. In the fluff, they are described as appearing on the battlefield, rather than being brought along as part of the overlords force. They are even described as being hunted down after the battle. Therefore, they aren't really of any organisation are intended to fulfil a specific role.
I believe not occupying a FoC better displays their nature and better suits their in-game representation.

azazel the cat wrote:
Personally, I've never been a fan. Maybe if they had Fleet to make them a little faster. But as they stand now, well, I've never sat around and thought, "boy, I sure to wish the Necrons had I2 termagaunts!".

And the parallel to gaunts being... what exactly?

Balor wrote:Deathmarks just don't seem that great with the cost vs. the range and the weapon type.

I think there should be a rule that let's them see through the dark.

peebzguy wrote:

Balor wrote:Deathmarks just don't seem that great with the cost vs. the range and the weapon type.

I think there should be a rule that let's them see through the dark.

Who knows? There might be. The codex still isn't out yet.

Anyone knoticed but the GW website "Whats New Today" hasn't been updated that must mean .... actually no .. no already done this before.

Just Dave wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Just Dave wrote:

zacharia wrote:It would have made a lot more sense to make flayed ones troops and keep immortals elite.

Actually, I'd say it would make more sense for Flayed Ones to not occupy a FoC slot; fluff and game-wise.

Why do you say that?

Silly concept?

A 13pts close-combat, initiative 2 troop choice isn't worth it to compete with Warriors and they don't actually fulfill a 'troop' role in that they don't form the core of Necron armies, whilst they aren't really that elite either. In the fluff, they are described as appearing on the battlefield, rather than being brought along as part of the overlords force. They are even described as being hunted down after the battle. Therefore, they aren't really of any organisation are intended to fulfil a specific role.
I believe not occupying a FoC better displays their nature and better suits their in-game representation.

Well, the same things can be said for the Vanilla Marines Legion of the Damned. From the command perspective, they start the fight outgunned, expecting to lose. When suddenly, these ghostly marines just show up and tip the scales, and after the fight, they just leave, before saying a word. Even though there is no way to have expected their arrival, nor command them once they do, they still take up an elite slot.

tl;dr: FOC doesn't care about fluff.