Harriticus wrote:I like how it comes out tomorrow and there's still no word on GW's website. This secrecy policy of theirs is really rather bizarre and probably costs money.
Well...it's not there today because it comes out tomorrow....It's no different than a game company having a count down site to the announcement of a new game coming at a later date. GW's "later date" just happens to now be sooner rather than later.
looks like Destroyer Lords are a court option, rather than a regular HQ choice. which is nice, since that means I can run some SC's or DIY Overlords while still plopping a D Lord in with my Wraiths.
Back to the discussion of Nemesor Zahndrekh & his loyal bodyguard Vargard Obryon these two statements in the post about them (shown below), to me, seems as though you can take one in an army without the other. As in they do not have to accompany each other in an army. Like i said earlier if you take them you probably want both but in smaller games, it will be possible to take one just for his rules and/or stats.
Vargard Obyron does not take up a HQ slot if in the same army as Zahndrekh. (so Obryon can be taken in an army without Zahndrekh)
These guys are not cheap (although at least individually still not as expensive as the Stormlord)
(the only reason you would put this last bit in, 'although at least . . . ' would be if it is possible to take them separately)
This may have already been said but i thought i would post it to confirm if people had looked at them but were uncertain of potential in smaller games.
I'm giving Trazyn a second look. Trazyn on a CCB will be awesome. On a 6 you'd be able to assign wounds and increase your chance of gutting your opponent's units. (Barge sweep attack uses the IC's CC attacks and CC special rules).
Looks like he won't be able to used Mindshackle Scarabs though (requires base contact BEFORE combat begins).
Automatically Appended Next Post: On another note, what do people think about magnetizing the Ark? Seems like it would only be 3 large magnets or so (maybe some pinning to keep things orientated correctly, too.)
Automatically Appended Next Post: Warrior page confirms that there are 3 scarab swarms in the box...
Weirdly, they have a part count (120 parts). By my quick count (base +8 parts per scarab swarm, base +8 parts per warrior), they don't seem to have changed anything in that box.
Anpu-adom wrote:
On another note, what do people think about magnetizing the Ark? Seems like it would only be 3 large magnets or so (maybe some pinning to keep things orientated correctly, too.)
Personally, I think I'll leave it pointy side up with maybe the front one going down and then just magnetizing the Doomsday Cannon
Warrior page confirms that there are 3 scarab swarms in the box...
Weirdly, they have a part count (120 parts). By my quick count (base +8 parts per scarab swarm, base +8 parts per warrior), they don't seem to have changed anything in that box.
But that assumes 4 scarabs per base, which looks crowded IMO. Reduce them to 3, which makes with the number of wounds in the current dex, and then you get an extra base's worth.
If you are smart, you could also magentise one base of scarabs and use that base to show an base which has taken wounds. Since all new wounds have to go on the damaged stand, you only need magnetise one base, and just swap it into play for whichever base takes damage.
Anpu-adom wrote:On another note, what do people think about magnetizing the Ark? Seems like it would only be 3 large magnets or so (maybe some pinning to keep things orientated correctly, too.)
Also looking at the Ghost/Doomsday Ark, anyone else notice the spinal hook up on the Warriors? Is it just me or did anyone else think Wraith conversions?
Warrior page confirms that there are 3 scarab swarms in the box...
Weirdly, they have a part count (120 parts). By my quick count (base +8 parts per scarab swarm, base +8 parts per warrior), they don't seem to have changed anything in that box.
But that assumes 4 scarabs per base, which looks crowded IMO. Reduce them to 3, which makes with the number of wounds in the current dex, and then you get an extra base's worth.
If you are smart, you could also magentise one base of scarabs and use that base to show an base which has taken wounds. Since all new wounds have to go on the damaged stand, you only need magnetise one base, and just swap it into play for whichever base takes damage.
pyre wrote:it does look like they've replaced the green rods with solid plastic ones. The sprue images show weapons with rod portion integrated on the guns.
I see that on the group picture. The 360 warrior still has a green rod (notice the bubble). Also, the Finecast Lords mention the green rods too.
I'm disappointed that they haven't combined the destroyers into one box!
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King Pariah wrote:Also looking at the Ghost/Doomsday Ark, anyone else notice the spinal hook up on the Warriors? Is it just me or did anyone else think Wraith conversions?
Anpu-adom wrote:I'm giving Trazyn a second look. Trazyn on a CCB will be awesome. On a 6 you'd be able to assign wounds and increase your chance of gutting your opponent's units. (Barge sweep attack uses the IC's CC attacks and CC special rules).
Looks like he won't be able to used Mindshackle Scarabs though (requires base contact BEFORE combat begins).
Automatically Appended Next Post: On another note, what do people think about magnetizing the Ark? Seems like it would only be 3 large magnets or so (maybe some pinning to keep things orientated correctly, too.)
Automatically Appended Next Post: Warrior page confirms that there are 3 scarab swarms in the box...
Weirdly, they have a part count (120 parts). By my quick count (base +8 parts per scarab swarm, base +8 parts per warrior), they don't seem to have changed anything in that box.
You can't use Trazyn's CC ability on the command barge, he has to be in B2B with the enemy he kills and, as yak put it, locked in CC.
Zachilles wrote:Overlords are only WS/BS 4, thats disappointing
I was disappointed with I2 on the overlords as well as Wraiths, I think it will take a little adjusting for myself since after playing marines for so long I'm used to attacking at the same time or before everyone else.
I still think a large unit of Voidshield Lychguard teamed up with Zahndreck giving them furious charge will be something to fear. Ideally I would want them in a Nightscythe though, lets hope wave 2 isn't far away.
pyre wrote:it does look like they've replaced the green rods with solid plastic ones. The sprue images show weapons with rod portion integrated on the guns.
I see that on the group picture. The 360 warrior still has a green rod (notice the bubble). Also, the Finecast Lords mention the green rods too.
I'm disappointed that they haven't combined the destroyers into one box!
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King Pariah wrote:Also looking at the Ghost/Doomsday Ark, anyone else notice the spinal hook up on the Warriors? Is it just me or did anyone else think Wraith conversions?
Right there with you, buddy!
Destroyers and heavy destroyers are in the same box if you buy/bought the heavy D box instead of the normal destroyer.
Lots of places are already offering preorders...if I was going to preorder something I'd rather do it through a store I'm familiar with like thewarstore, something about making a preorder through ebay doesnt feel right
King Pariah wrote:Also looking at the Ghost/Doomsday Ark, anyone else notice the spinal hook up on the Warriors? Is it just me or did anyone else think Wraith conversions?
Right there with you, buddy!
I had to take a second glance at the model, as i saw it from the back and i thought it was wraiths on the ghost ark. i was thinking convert them into models but then i realized that it was just warriors.
With the $5.99 shipping that's $44.98. It would be cheaper to order it from a 20% off discounter like www.thewarstore.com and pay the FLAT $5.95 shipping on your entire order if you're going to buy more than one item, though the eBay seller does hint at lower pricing for large orders.
Okay, with good photos, I'm officially impressed with the models...even the flayed ones don't look all that bad. One or two of them look rediculous, but the others are actually pretty decent, still too expensive though. The only asthetic complaint I can come up with is the little green balls on the preatorian jump packs look silly. That is easily remedied and the rest of the pack design is awesome.
Stat lines on the overlords and ICs are disapointing, but I think at least in characters like Imotekh and Trazyn, you end up trading statlines for some pretty strong special rules.
Maelstrom808 wrote:Okay, with good photos, I'm officially impressed with the models...even the flayed ones don't look all that bad. One or two of them look rediculous, but the others are actually pretty decent, still too expensive though. The only asthetic complaint I can come up with is the little green balls on the preatorian jump packs look silly. That is easily remedied and the rest of the pack design is awesome.
Stat lines on the overlords and ICs are disapointing, but I think at least in characters like Imotekh and Trazyn, you end up trading statlines for some pretty strong special rules.
That's true. They [necrons] seem very focused on not letting you get to them easily.
Okay, so we can officially say that whomever came up with the idea that Warscythes have 2D6 armor penetration was incorrect.
The Lycheguard preview text on GW's site says that when armed with Warscythes they can deal with anything short of a Land Raider, which pretty much seals the deal.
H.B.M.C. wrote:Gotto say, now that I see some better pics I really like the Stormlord model. Great pose, good detail, has a regal feel to him. Very impressed.
I was just wondering. Warriors over Immortals. Are Immortals any better than Warriors considering the point difference. If so, would one take a gauss blasters or tesla carbines. I mean if I'm right in presuming the stats
Gauss Blaster: 24" S5 Ap4 Rapid fire with auto glance on a 6 rule
Tesla Carbine: 24" S5 Ap- Assault 1 with the every 6 is 3 hits rule
Which gun is better, or is it gauss for anti tank-ish and tesla for anti infintry/horde. tesla you can move and shoot at full range but it has no Ap so i just dont know which is better.
What do you think?
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H.B.M.C. wrote:Gotto say, now that I see some better pics I really like the Stormlord model. Great pose, good detail, has a regal feel to him. Very impressed.
I think they look great. I love the size and look of the Ghost Ark. I see Necron warriors with a tek being a beast unit. Not ultra dangerous, but impossibly irritating. I can't wait.
I am with those that say the Overlord states are somewhat disappointing. Very few HQs in the game have base stats equal to that of none HQ units(Guard I think is the only real one with Senior commanders having equivalent stats to veterans/stormtroopers, and even then they have generic HQs with better stats like commisars).. The least they could have done was traded the lowered Initiative for an extra one.. I would figure if any generic HQ should have 4 wounds and not be a MC it would be Necrons more than anything. WS5 and BS5 would have really been something to show that the Overlords were a cut above the rest. Now they are just an elite choice with 1 more attack and 2 more wounds. Hopefully they will have more than enough cooky(and not so cooky) options to make generic Overlords a fun and viable option compared to the power of the Stormlord and other Special Characters.
I'm considering converting imhotek into Zahndrek - the pose is awesome and the weapons would't be hard top replace. Do you think he's going to get his own model or will we have to convert him?
The Metal Tide wrote:I was just wondering. Warriors over Immortals. Are Immortals any better than Warriors considering the point difference. If so, would one take a gauss blasters or tesla carbines. I mean if I'm right in presuming the stats
Gauss Blaster: 24" S5 Ap4 Rapid fire with auto glance on a 6 rule
Tesla Carbine: 24" S5 Ap- Assault 1 with the every 6 is 3 hits rule
Which gun is better, or is it gauss for anti tank-ish and tesla for anti infintry/horde. tesla you can move and shoot at full range but it has no Ap so i just dont know which is better.
What do you think?
I would say it depend on what the rest of your army is. But I would almost always go with the blaster. The glance on a 6 is more reliable than extra hits, mainly because of rapid fire. AP4 has the benefit of going through everything that's not a marine or terminator. Although pilling on wounds might be the only way to kill those models and the Tesla has that opportunity, but you also have the issue with AP~. A low AP weapon is fine, but now you have no chance to do any reliable damage to a vehicle, needing yet another 6 just to destroy a weapon. A -3 penalty on the vehicle damage chart isn't bueno.
MightisRight wrote:I'm considering converting imhotek into Zahndrek - the pose is awesome and the weapons would't be hard top replace. Do you think he's going to get his own model or will we have to convert him?
I hope we do. And to have him come with obryon would be even better
Automatically Appended Next Post: I must say, I don't like the little crown on top of the lychguard head. I don't think i will be using that head option when i build them. I'll just use the ptaetorian heads
Generic Overlords start with a Staff of Light (regular CC weapon that also has a 12" S5, AP3, Assault 3 shooting attack). They can exchange (and in some cases pay more points for):
• Warscythe
• Gauntlet of Fire
• Hyperhase Sword
• Voidblade
I think I've discussed all those weapon options before in other unit descriptions, so I won't bother going over them.
They also have the option to take any of the following Wargear:
• Phylactery
• Mindshackle Scarabs
• Sempiternal Weave
• Tesseract Labyrinth (one use only. choose a character or monstrous creature in base contact and instead of making CC attacks the victim must roll under its remaining wounds on a D6 or be removed as a casualty with no saves allowed).
• Tachyon Arrow
• Resurrection Orb
• Phase Shifter
Destroyer Lords come stock with the Warscythe and have the same weapon options as the Overlord (except they can't get the Staff of Light).
The only wargear choices Destroyer Lords have are:
ChaosxVoid wrote:I rather like the destroyer models they have now.
The Destroyer models haven't changed.
Yak the Mighty wrote:Destroyer Lords ... can't get the Staff of Light
Because of arbitrary!!!
Oh well. Sucks if you modelled your Destroyer Lord with a Staff of Light, y'know, the weapon that was kinda useful to have when he was working with Destroyers because it was a shooty HTH weapon.
Also I think GW is sly in the way that they make you buy a transport tank, which they put in the same box as the big battle tank, and then charge you the price of the battle tank. No other army is in a situation such as this. The MEQ would be paying for a predator just to make a rhino. This is sly IMHO, but a good business strategy.
I was thinking if it isnt possible to pin the ghost ark or for those who dont know how or dont want to, the doomsday cannon would make a great turret mount or objective.
Anpu-adom wrote:I'm giving Trazyn a second look. Trazyn on a CCB will be awesome. On a 6 you'd be able to assign wounds and increase your chance of gutting your opponent's units. (Barge sweep attack uses the IC's CC attacks and CC special rules).
Looks like he won't be able to used Mindshackle Scarabs though (requires base contact BEFORE combat begins).
Automatically Appended Next Post: On another note, what do people think about magnetizing the Ark? Seems like it would only be 3 large magnets or so (maybe some pinning to keep things orientated correctly, too.)
Automatically Appended Next Post: Warrior page confirms that there are 3 scarab swarms in the box...
Weirdly, they have a part count (120 parts). By my quick count (base +8 parts per scarab swarm, base +8 parts per warrior), they don't seem to have changed anything in that box.
You can't use Trazyn's CC ability on the command barge, he has to be in B2B with the enemy he kills and, as yak put it, locked in CC.
We may have to wait for the Codex (or a FAQ) to settle that. I read somewhere official that Named Lords and Overlords could use their CC specials from the CCB. I'll keep looking for it and get back to everyone if I can find it again.
Your Lychguard and Immortals may be transported in a Night Scythe. Oh, by the way, Night Scythe isnt being released until wave 2. Anyone else a bit disappointed?
The Metal Tide wrote:Also I think GW is sly in the way that they make you buy a transport tank, which they put in the same box as the big battle tank, and then charge you the price of the battle tank. No other army is in a situation such as this. The MEQ would be paying for a predator just to make a rhino. This is sly IMHO, but a good business strategy.
It could be worse. They could have reduced Necron Warriors to 8 per box and put the price up 20%.
The Metal Tide wrote:I was thinking if it isnt possible to pin the ghost ark or for those who dont know how or dont want to, the doomsday cannon would make a great turret mount or objective.
I'm hoping that you can build the Doomday Arc the other way up, so basically just like the Ghost Arc, but with the cannon running down the middle rather than the fold-up Battle Droids.
Anpu-adom wrote:
We may have to wait for the Codex (or a FAQ) to settle that. I read somewhere official that Named Lords and Overlords could use their CC specials from the CCB. I'll keep looking for it and get back to everyone if I can find it again.
You CAN use the special abilities of CC weapons when making a sweep attack on a barge, just not this one because it specifically says:
"If Trazyn kills one or more enemies in close combat, the Empathic Obliterator unleashes a psionic shockwave. This occurs after all blows have been struck, but before the Assault Results are determined."
and:
"To resolve the psionic shockwave, roll a D6 for every model in the combat...
As you can see, with Sweep Attacks there are no 'assault results' and there is no 'combat' for other models to be a part of. The Command Barge simply passes over the enemy unit and does 3 Attacks.
The Metal Tide wrote:Also I think GW is sly in the way that they make you buy a transport tank, which they put in the same box as the big battle tank, and then charge you the price of the battle tank. No other army is in a situation such as this. The MEQ would be paying for a predator just to make a rhino. This is sly IMHO, but a good business strategy.
It could be worse. They could have reduced Necron Warriors to 8 per box and put the price up 20%.
The Metal Tide wrote:I was thinking if it isnt possible to pin the ghost ark or for those who dont know how or dont want to, the doomsday cannon would make a great turret mount or objective.
I'm hoping that you can build the Doomday Arc the other way up, so basically just like the Ghost Arc, but with the cannon running down the middle rather than the fold-up Battle Droids.
From what I've seen of it (the pictures and 360 view) I would say yes. Build it ROUGHLY like it would be put on upside down (except the attachment parts as they must go on two different way for ghost and annihilation barge) then stick it on the other way . . . maybe. Also if the cannon is pinned you could have it as a transport by taking the cannon off and leaving it with out the warriors in it. It wouldn't look as good as if it had the warriors in it but it would allow it to be used as a transport or battle tank when needed.
Anpu-adom wrote:
We may have to wait for the Codex (or a FAQ) to settle that. I read somewhere official that Named Lords and Overlords could use their CC specials from the CCB. I'll keep looking for it and get back to everyone if I can find it again.
You CAN use the special abilities of CC weapons when making a sweep attack on a barge, just not this one because it specifically says:
"If Trazyn kills one or more enemies in close combat, the Empathic Obliterator unleashes a psionic shockwave. This occurs after all blows have been struck, but before the Assault Results are determined."
and:
"To resolve the psionic shockwave, roll a D6 for every model in the combat...
As you can see, with Sweep Attacks there are no 'assault results' and there is no 'combat' for other models to be a part of. The Command Barge simply passes over the enemy unit and does 3 Attacks.
No FAQ even remotely needed.
Thanks for the wording, Yakface. Even though it crushes my soul a bit.
Heavy Destroyers provide long range firepower for a Necron army. Their speed and weapon range makes them perfect for sniping enemy vehicles and elite units. At strength 9 and AP2 the Heavy Gauss Cannon will penetrate even the thickest armour. Your Heavy Destroyers can also be used to give you an advantage in the deployment phase. By deploying a Heavy Destroyer first you can wait and see where your opponent puts his own choice before committing a more expensive unit like a Monolith. Again, using a single Heavy Destroyer, you can push your opponent right back into his deployment zone. By deploying your Heavy Destroyer as far forward as possible you will force your opponent to deploy his units 24" back into his own table half, your Heavy destroyer can then turbo boost to a more sensible position on the first turn.
Defeatmyarmy wrote:Oh, by the way, Night Scythe isnt being released until wave 2.
Do we know that for a fact?
I'm hoping they release it soon but if not, Im using the ghost ark as the Night Scythe
That's what should have happened anyway. Why would the necrons build a transport that only certain units can use. I would have thought that it could take any unit as long as that unit was allowed to use a transport.
Wow, the new plastic kits that are available are awesome and I will definitely be buying a squad of deathmarks and then some immortals, but the finecast models are absurdly overpriced. 45 bucks for 5 flayed ones? Am I missing something here? Also, definitely gonna go buy the metal ctan at the local shop for 20 bucks before I buy a cruddy finecast version for 35.
MasterSlowPoke wrote:Found this on the Heavy Destroyer page:
Heavy Destroyers provide long range firepower for a Necron army. Their speed and weapon range makes them perfect for sniping enemy vehicles and elite units. At strength 9 and AP2 the Heavy Gauss Cannon will penetrate even the thickest armour. Your Heavy Destroyers can also be used to give you an advantage in the deployment phase. By deploying a Heavy Destroyer first you can wait and see where your opponent puts his own choice before committing a more expensive unit like a Monolith. Again, using a single Heavy Destroyer, you can push your opponent right back into his deployment zone. By deploying your Heavy Destroyer as far forward as possible you will force your opponent to deploy his units 24" back into his own table half, your Heavy destroyer can then turbo boost to a more sensible position on the first turn.
Doesn't really make a whole lot of sense.
Possibly incoming 6th edition rule?
Afterall, this is a 6th edition codex and not all of it will make sense... Maybe in 6th you deploy squads at a time and take turns *shrugs*
With the $5.99 shipping that's $44.98. It would be cheaper to order it from a 20% off discounter like www.thewarstore.com and pay the FLAT $5.95 shipping on your entire order if you're going to buy more than one item, though the eBay seller does hint at lower pricing for large orders.
I went ahead and contacted the seller and he was able to knock a few more % off since I got 4 boxes (didn't get a ghost ark though). Everything smooth so far.
Nice looking models all round but I am worry about balance issues with the barge model. It looks front heavy to me to the point of tipping over when you bump the table just a small bit.
I picked up the new WD at my local store today. I have to say after reading a couple of the articles and looking at all the pictures, I am even more excited about this release than i was before.
I think that i will make both of my ghost arks into transports, the doomsday cannon (while impressively strong) is too immobile for my tastes. For heavy support it will be a mix of monoliths, tomb spyders (maybe), and definitely 1+ annihilation barges. Seriously, has anybody test-rolled these things yet? Twin-linked s7 heavy 4 tesla, plus a 3 shot s6 tesla weapon on the bottom puts out 7-12 wounds on a MeQ squad over and over again...yes the range is only 24" but i think that will be less of an issue when we see these on the tabletop. I have 2 command barge kits and I will probably get 2 more a few weeks after release day.
What units have you fallen in love with pre-release?
Am I right in thinking that the night scythe can hold 15 men but will usually be used for Lychguard, Ptaetorians, and Immortals which only have a maximum squad size of 10. why give the space for the other 5 except to fit 7 Ptaetorians instead of 5 unless in 6 Ed there might be able to have more than one squad in a transport. Any thought on that?
The US price of $45 for 5 Flayed Ones is outrageous and worse down under. Especially since Finecast models cost less to produce than their multi-part plastic kits. My advice, convert some from regular Warriors, it's not a tough job or lengthy. Some thin plastic card or bits for blade fingers, Green Stuff or very thin plastic card for irregular "skin" coverings.
tetrisphreak wrote:I picked up the new WD at my local store today. I have to say after reading a couple of the articles and looking at all the pictures, I am even more excited about this release than i was before.
I think that i will make both of my ghost arks into transports, the doomsday cannon (while impressively strong) is too immobile for my tastes. For heavy support it will be a mix of monoliths, tomb spyders (maybe), and definitely 1+ annihilation barges. Seriously, has anybody test-rolled these things yet? Twin-linked s7 heavy 4 tesla, plus a 3 shot s6 tesla weapon on the bottom puts out 7-12 wounds on a MeQ squad over and over again...yes the range is only 24" but i think that will be less of an issue when we see these on the tabletop. I have 2 command barge kits and I will probably get 2 more a few weeks after release day.
What units have you fallen in love with pre-release?
dont forget it has a tw tesla destructor and a tesla cannon
BrassScorpion wrote:The US price of $45 for 5 Flayed Ones is outrageous and worse down under. Especially since Finecast models cost less to produce than their multi-part plastic kits. My advice, convert some from regular Warriors, it's not a tough job or lengthy. Some thin plastic card or bits for blade fingers, Green Stuff or very thin plastic card for irregular "skin" coverings.
I think I heard the metal Flayed ones on eBay just skyrocket.
LOL Balance issues have new meaning for me now, Zathras. Confusingly enough, the site says that it comes with, and this is cut and paste, "This kit comes with one two small flying stems, one large flying base and two Necron transfer sheets." So I think that means that it has 3 supports in the box. The wording is horrendous, but I really do hope that it has three stands to help hold that crazy looking thing up. One large flying base and two smaller support posts is what I can make out of that. Also, I can totally buy the old metal flayed ones for about 12 bucks a blister of 2 at the local. Maybe I should? I know I'll only be getting one more model, and the new models do look good, but they're metal.
Munga wrote:LOL Balance issues have new meaning for me now, Zathras. Confusingly enough, the site says that it comes with, and this is cut and paste, "This kit comes with one two small flying stems, one large flying base and two Necron transfer sheets." So I think that means that it has 3 supports in the box. The wording is horrendous, but I really do hope that it has three stands to help hold that crazy looking thing up. One large flying base and two smaller support posts is what I can make out of that. Also, I can totally buy the old metal flayed ones for about 12 bucks a blister of 2 at the local. Maybe I should? I know I'll only be getting one more model, and the new models do look good, but they're metal.
No. It means two stems and one round base. The stems in the Destroyer box always come in twos. Yet, there is only one base.
Flayed ones look horrible. I won't be using them out of protest for the horrible model. Also, if I am playing against someone who has them, I will attack them first in order to get them off the table. The old metal ones are going to be priceless soon.
Munga wrote:LOL Balance issues have new meaning for me now, Zathras. Confusingly enough, the site says that it comes with, and this is cut and paste, "This kit comes with one two small flying stems, one large flying base and two Necron transfer sheets." So I think that means that it has 3 supports in the box. The wording is horrendous, but I really do hope that it has three stands to help hold that crazy looking thing up. One large flying base and two smaller support posts is what I can make out of that. Also, I can totally buy the old metal flayed ones for about 12 bucks a blister of 2 at the local. Maybe I should? I know I'll only be getting one more model, and the new models do look good, but they're metal.
The Barge model might be a good candidate for a CorSec Engineering flight stand. I just don't trust a GW flight stand to stand up to normal game usage with that model.
Has anyone seen any of their abilities yet to justify them? I have 10 of the old metal ones, half missing a hand or two due to the how the claws were supposed to glue on.
wtf have they done to the flayed ones. Its a metal mummy. I dont like it.
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Warboss Gubbinz wrote:So flayed ones = pyrovores of the codex?
Has anyone seen any of their abilities yet to justify them? I have 10 of the old metal ones, half missing a hand or two due to the how the claws were supposed to glue on.
Yak says
3 Attacks base (and no additional CC weapons). Can infiltrate or Deep Strike. No transport options. 5-20 in a unit.
Phase shifter grants a 3+ invulnerable save, similar to the "old" Necron codex right? (will be old in a week)
So the destroyer lord can get a Sempiternal Weave for a 2+ armour save, but has no invulnerable save option at all? I would have liked to have run a destroyer lord with jump infantry, but now it only makes sense if he is joining Wraiths not Praetorians in terms of survivability. Well at least when my two boxes of Guard/ Praetorians turn up I'm fairly safe in knowing which I'll be assembling them as. I guess in fairness he will be true Toughness 6, 3 wounds, with a 2+ save which is still fairly survivable. Do Lords and Crypteks still have a chance to stand back up with a single wound like the Lords of old? This raises the question of if they fall while holding an Orb does the bonus still count? I'm walking into GW on release day to grab a codex!
Even with their lame initiative, I think a large squad of Lych Guard (voidsheild) and Wraiths supported by Res Orbs and the special characters of Zandrek and Obyron are going to be some very reliable and effective units. There is potential for trying to simply out last your enemy with this army now I honestly believe, its a great change from being tabled by turn 4 if your opponent is aggressive and close combat oriented, going for a phase out
These sound like fun and the model is cool. However, once again they create a model that gamers would want to buy in numbers of easily 3 to 5, yet instead of a somewhat affordable box set they are $15.25 US each. If they are more expensive than Terminators people are unlikely to buy 5 of them. Even a box set of 5 for $33 would have seemed good by comparison. :(
The Metal Tide wrote:Am I right in thinking that the night scythe can hold 15 men but will usually be used for Lychguard, Ptaetorians, and Immortals which only have a maximum squad size of 10. why give the space for the other 5 except to fit 7 Ptaetorians instead of 5 unless in 6 Ed there might be able to have more than one squad in a transport. Any thought on that?
It can hold jump infantry (2 models per) and jet bikes (3 models per).
These sound like fun and the model is cool. However, once again they create a model that gamers would want to buy in numbers of easily 3 to 5, yet instead of a somewhat affordable box set they are $15.25 US each. If they are more expensive than Terminators people are unlikely to buy 5 of them. Even a box set of 5 for $33 would have seemed good by comparison. :(
Y'know...
I don't see why anyone would buy the Cryptek model. He looks goofy as heck, in terms of the sculpt.
If I were to start a Necron army and use Crypteks, I'd use the Deathmark heads and staves from the Lychguard.
Heck, I'd probably use a whole body from the Lychguard for the Crypteks with the Deathmark heads and the addition of some fancypants crests from the Lychguard.
Would it be cheap to do? Probably not, but if you're going to field a ton of Immortals--you'll likely have some Deathmark bits to spare right?
Another thing to be noted....the dispersion shields do they reflect blast template weapons?
If so anyone with a Plasma tank.....shooting the large blast...and using the shields to deflect does that mean if I get 5 4+ Invuls and deflect it....I get 5 large blasts?
Evegoden wrote:Another thing to be noted....the dispersion shields do they reflect blast template weapons?
If so anyone with a Plasma tank.....shooting the large blast...and using the shields to deflect does that mean if I get 5 4+ Invuls and deflect it....I get 5 large blasts?
No, the rules are very clear about this...a save from the shield equals a single hit. Templates are not repositioned.
GW's Facebook wrote:For those who have waited patiently (some more patient than others) here they are - The Necrons Return!
Oh shut the feth up...
Anyway, it all looks good, except the flayed ones. As if the models weren't enough of a joke, there's a $45 USD price tag to go with them? They obviously don't want anyone to buy flayed ones, and I recommend we all oblige them, lol. I know I sure as hell will be.
1. Finecast.
2. Ridiculous price.
3. Goofy fething sculpts that shouldn't have made it into production.
I would have bought a box of the Flayed Ones if they were at $33 like the rest of the 5 man units. I kind of like the sculpts but not $45 like the sculpts.
The Metal Tide wrote:Am I right in thinking that the night scythe can hold 15 men but will usually be used for Lychguard, Ptaetorians, and Immortals which only have a maximum squad size of 10. why give the space for the other 5 except to fit 7 Ptaetorians instead of 5 unless in 6 Ed there might be able to have more than one squad in a transport. Any thought on that?
It can hold jump infantry (2 models per) and jet bikes (3 models per).
Oh I didnt know that it could hold jetbikes. that makes more sense now. Wow is it the first transport to be able to hold jetbikes
I'm really curious to see what's coming in the next batch of models. I assume we'll get Wraiths, Tomb Spyders, the Triarch Stalker, and the Doom Scythe, but I'm more interested in seeing if we get any more options for Lords or Crypteks. I don't think it bodes well that they're re-releasing the old Lord (and the old, OLD Lord...) in Finecast. Doesn't seem like they'd do that if there were new models in the works. The option to take up to 10 Lords becomes a lot less appealing knowing a lot of them will be identical twins.
I'm still going to hope for more Crypteks. The current model is great (although I want to do something about that chin), but the pose is so distinctive it's hard to imagine using 5-10 of that same model. What I would love to see is a "command box" with 5 distinct Lords or Crypteks. As is, I have no idea what I'll model them from (let alone all of their fancy new wargear)...
Is there any standard length of time between the first and second wave of models? I haven't been around for any of the recent new releases so I'm fuzzy on how the schedule usually works (last I remember was Necrons 2002...)
Evegoden wrote:So that means I get whatever str and ap of the weapon as a single shot back to a unit within 6inch?
That still sounds deadly.
It is only useful (in most cases anyway) if it is the unit about to assault you doing the shooting. Imagine 20 ork boys shooting at you before assaulting (therefor within 6") having their shots deflected back at them.
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whigwam wrote:I'm really curious to see what's coming in the next batch of models. I assume we'll get Wraiths, Tomb Spyders, the Triarch Stalker, and the Doom Scythe, but I'm more interested in seeing if we get any more options for Lords or Crypteks. I don't think it bodes well that they're re-releasing the old Lord (and the old, OLD Lord...) in Finecast. Doesn't seem like they'd do that if there were new models in the works. The option to take up to 10 Lords becomes a lot less appealing knowing a lot of them will be identical twins.
I'm still going to hope for more Crypteks. The current model is great (although I want to do something about that chin), but the pose is so distinctive it's hard to imagine using 5-10 of that same model. What I would love to see is a "command box" with 5 distinct Lords or Crypteks. As is, I have no idea what I'll model them from (let alone all of their fancy new wargear)...
Is there any standard length of time between the first and second wave of models? I haven't been around for any of the recent new releases so I'm fuzzy on how the schedule usually works (last I remember was Necrons 2002...)
About the chin: It would be quite easy to re shape the chin back to a normal necrons. Or you could instead use the head off a deathmark. It is roughly the same but without the chin. You would also lose the headpiece/crown thingy but imo it looks funny to. In my case i think i will just replace the head if i get a cryptek.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh and Im not an expert and take this with a lot of salt but i think the second wave comes in the first 2 months following. So look for them December OR January. If someone knows better than me, please correct me if I'm wrong.
"These are where your C'tan Shards really come to life - you can grant them ranged attacks (the tank-busting Transdimensional Thunderbolt comes to mind) close combat abilities (like Entropic Touch, which rots the armour of your opponent's troops) and weird game-changing mad science abilities (like Lord of Fire, which makes flamer and melta weapons explode!)."
Models that come in using the Zahndrekh rule:
"When he is on the battlefield, any number of Necron units in reserve waiting to Deep Strike may choose to enter play immediately after any enemy unit arrives from Reserves. In other words, basically the same ability the Deathmarks have."
Can they then move, shoot, and assault as normal in the following necron turn?
The Metal Tide wrote:It is only useful (in most cases anyway) if it is the unit about to assault you doing the shooting. Imagine 20 ork boys shooting at you before assaulting (therefor within 6") having their shots deflected back at them.
It would not work in that situation as you would be using your 3+ save (the rules say you always have to use your best save) which would not deflect anything back. The whole thing is very situational and not very good imo.
The Metal Tide wrote:Models that come in using the Zahndrekh rule:
"When he is on the battlefield, any number of Necron units in reserve waiting to Deep Strike may choose to enter play immediately after any enemy unit arrives from Reserves. In other words, basically the same ability the Deathmarks have."
Can they then move, shoot, and assault as normal in the following necron turn?
I'm going to say yes they can because they are on the table at the start of the Necron players turn.
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Kanluwen wrote:Sweet monkey Jesus, exploding flamer and melta weapons=Vulkan list suddenly becomes a liability.
As well as a lot of other lists that rely heavily on Melta weapons for anti-armor.
haroon wrote:It would not work in that situation as you would be using your 3+ save (the rules say you always have to use your best save) which would not deflect anything back. The whole thing is very situational and not very good imo.
Yep I'm sure 99% of players would happily drop that rule and just take a 3+ invulnerable save from the shield instead. I know I would.
The Metal Tide wrote:Models that come in using the Zahndrekh rule:
"When he is on the battlefield, any number of Necron units in reserve waiting to Deep Strike may choose to enter play immediately after any enemy unit arrives from Reserves. In other words, basically the same ability the Deathmarks have."
Can they then move, shoot, and assault as normal in the following necron turn?
I'm going to say yes they can because they are on the table at the start of the Necron players turn.
If so this is good for me. My mate who I play frequently always nerfs my necrons with a squad of 10 terminators. Now if he drops them near me I can drop a unit of 10 Lychguard with warscythes in, so that in my turn I get the upper hand with charging bonus. My 30 attacks striking first should kill roughly 7-9 depending on how good I'm rolling that day.
I want to see how much the terrible initiative on the whole codex effects them in CC. I can see almost anything wiping us up. and I see a lot of sweeping advances against an assault based army.
I hope the shooting is able to make up for it. the stats for the necrons are somewhat terrible. but if the shots are good along with the points it should be ok.
Didn't notice it from the pictures we had (even the WD pics) But I gotta say I'm positively giddy that the Immortal weapons attach into their spines. It is the only model so far that makes me believe that the robot IS the weapon, not just a skeleton carrying a cool piece of tech. Also, like a perverse version of a Dev marine. This may have sold me on a squad of 10 immortals.
GiantSlingshot wrote:Didn't notice it from the pictures we had (even the WD pics) But I gotta say I'm positively giddy that the Immortal weapons attach into their spines. It is the only model so far that makes me believe that the robot IS the weapon, not just a skeleton carrying a cool piece of tech. Also, like a perverse version of a Dev marine. This may have sold me on a squad of 10 immortals.
On the GW website there is a 360 view of an Immortal that confirms this. Its the first single model pic that isnt a deathmark
GiantSlingshot wrote:Didn't notice it from the pictures we had (even the WD pics) But I gotta say I'm positively giddy that the Immortal weapons attach into their spines. It is the only model so far that makes me believe that the robot IS the weapon, not just a skeleton carrying a cool piece of tech. Also, like a perverse version of a Dev marine. This may have sold me on a squad of 10 immortals.
On the GW website there is a 360 view of an Immortal that confirms this. Its the first single model pic that isnt a deathmark
They are now JI? Whats their stat line if you know?
Is it 2 much to ask for a 5+ Toughness? 2 woulds is Woot but sucks vs Instant Death.
Nasty idea is DSing Wraiths, put them where ever you want they ignore terrain. (Not Including Enemy Troops but still is nice.)
Wondering how it could turn out getting 6 dropping them in my friends Mech Guard line (Or near it).
Well they now have a gun of some sort, so I would say you could guess that they will have a BS of 4 like the rest of the army. From what Yakface wrote you can gather this much
WS? BS Im guessing 4 S? T? W2 I2 A3 Ld10(like the rest of the army) Sv3++(Im guessing a 3+ armor save too)
I don't know if anyone has brought it up but the GW page says that the necron lord can take tachyon arrows. Taking 5 royal court lords each with an arrow sounds like it could be great anti-tank potential for an early turn assault of their strongest or most key tanks.
That plus adding a couple stalkers to the list help guarantee those one time use arrows get the most for their points, makes it seem like a pretty fun idea.
The problem with Flayed ones is that GW shouldn't have tried to make the skin look like the bandages of a mummy. And they should have left off the corpses.
asimo77 wrote:Anyone notice the funny jack-o-latern style mouth on one of the Flayed Ones? What's up with that?
I actually like that one. The one that drives me up the wall is the left-most one. Looks like he's auditioning for Broadway. *Jazz-Hands*
The far right one would be my least favorite... but then I remembered I own a hobby knife.
I like the one in the upper right. It looks like its about to chuck the remains back to where it got them from, saying "Here's your friend back. Prepare to die."
A court full of Tachyons could be pretty mean indeed. But, another thing that I saw reading through product descriptions was in the Overlord write up, it describes "It's up to you whether your Overlord is a stately, lead 'em from the back type (resurrection orb)..." This statement is a puzzle to me.
For our current understanding of the orb, it's only effective for units that the orb is attached to. If an overlord were to "Lead 'em from the back," one would imagine he's not attached to a unit. Is Ward just implying he'd take an orb for his own sake, or is there some advantage we aren't privy to?
GiantSlingshot wrote:A court full of Tachyons could be pretty mean indeed. But, another thing that I saw reading through product descriptions was in the Overlord write up, it describes "It's up to you whether your Overlord is a stately, lead 'em from the back type (resurrection orb)..." This statement is a puzzle to me.
For our current understanding of the orb, it's only effective for units that the orb is attached to. If an overlord were to "Lead 'em from the back," one would imagine he's not attached to a unit. Is Ward just implying he'd take an orb for his own sake, or is there some advantage we aren't privy to?
I saw that as well
It gives me hope that mabye if in the hands of a overlord that the the res orb 6inch rule still works aand you would only take res orbs with normal lords if you know they will not be in range of the phalanx
Ok I have to ask... what's up with everything having initiative 2? Please we get something that allows us to knock opponents down to initiative 1 so taking our cc troops won’t be a huge waste of time and points.
For those of us who dont have the funds to buy all the new units. Does anyone think me using my old Pariah modes as Crypteks would be a problem? From what I understand they have staff/stave weapons anyway so the warscythe could easily be a counts-as tremor-stave etc.
scythewing wrote:Ok I have to ask... what's up with everything having initiative 2? Please we get something that allows us to knock opponents down to initiative 1 so taking our cc troops won’t be a huge waste of time and points.
Wraiths have some sort of coil whip that works like a tyranid lash whip. But other than that i have not heard of any other device that does so.
scythewing wrote:Ok I have to ask... what's up with everything having initiative 2? Please we get something that allows us to knock opponents down to initiative 1 so taking our cc troops won’t be a huge waste of time and points.
Wraiths have some sort of coil whip that works like a tyranid lash whip. But other than that i have not heard of any other device that does so.
Don't forget Tomb Spyders! They can take Whip Coils as well.
GiantSlingshot wrote:A court full of Tachyons could be pretty mean indeed. But, another thing that I saw reading through product descriptions was in the Overlord write up, it describes "It's up to you whether your Overlord is a stately, lead 'em from the back type (resurrection orb)..." This statement is a puzzle to me.
For our current understanding of the orb, it's only effective for units that the orb is attached to. If an overlord were to "Lead 'em from the back," one would imagine he's not attached to a unit. Is Ward just implying he'd take an orb for his own sake, or is there some advantage we aren't privy to?
I wouldn't get your hopes up too high about either.
Tachyon Arrows are not selectable by standard Lords in the codex I have. Now, obviously things could have changed in the final version, but even if they have the cost of a Tachyon Arrow is so high (points-wise) there's very little way you could justify taking a whole bunch in your army without cannibalizing your ability to field anything decent. The other possibility is of course that it is just a simple slip-up on the part of the marketing write up, and given that its not in the section written by the actual Codex authors, that seems fairly likely.
And onto the Rez Orbs, I simply think they mean 'stand in the back' more in terms of supporting other units by being in them, as opposed to taking a bunch of CC wargear and sending your Overlord out to go kill things.
See, havign looked at the rules (as they have been stated here mind you) for the Doomsday Ark and the Annihilation Barge.....i am torn which one to get.
The Ark looks awesome with S9 AP1 72", but it can only do that if it stay still....BUT it is a nice bit of ranged AT for the 'crons whihc they have always lacked.
But the Barge is a really nice looking gun boat with what seems like loads of nastiness. TL S7 Tesla? As well as another big Tesla as well? Will have to check the rules and codex when it comes out but that Barge looks like it could be a nice rhino-popper as well as a nasty bit of anti-infantry
Hey Dakka I like the new look! So it is official! The true scourge of the galaxy is back again to reap you all!
I noticed in the advanced orders pics (the new 360 degree view is cool) that warriors still have their glowing rods. So I have a question: Do the other models (Immortals for example) have glowrods as well and there is just a different paintjob applied on top of them? Or are they all gone for the new models?
Thanks all and apologies if this has been addressed to earlier.
Nice piece of fluff above me. But... Imotech "snorted"? no offense, just sounded a bit funny.
I just want to mention that one of the new features of Dakka is the ability to filter a thread to only a single member's posts in that thread (you do that by clicking on the 'filter thread' link by the user's name anywhere in the thread).
So this is a great tool, for example, if you just wanted to look through all the (mainly) rumor posts I've made in this thread:
yakface wrote:
I just want to mention that one of the new features of Dakka is the ability to filter a thread to only a single member's posts in that thread (you do that by clicking on the 'filter thread' link by the user's name anywhere in the thread).
So this is a great tool, for example, if you just wanted to look through all the (mainly) rumor posts I've made in this thread:
yakface wrote:
I just want to mention that one of the new features of Dakka is the ability to filter a thread to only a single member's posts in that thread (you do that by clicking on the 'filter thread' link by the user's name anywhere in the thread).
So this is a great tool, for example, if you just wanted to look through all the (mainly) rumor posts I've made in this thread:
yakface wrote:
I just want to mention that one of the new features of Dakka is the ability to filter a thread to only a single member's posts in that thread (you do that by clicking on the 'filter thread' link by the user's name anywhere in the thread).
So this is a great tool, for example, if you just wanted to look through all the (mainly) rumor posts I've made in this thread:
scythewing wrote:Ya I’m hoping our cc troops are more than just a high priced speed bump that can’t hit back.
This is why I think res orbs and invulnerable saves are going to be crucial to effective Necron CC units. From what I've seen, Necrons will still have some units that can stand their ground in combat, but you will need to support them so that the combats take place on your terms as much as possible.
Whip Coil equipped Scarabs sound like fun actually, and could certainly deter and screen your troop gun lines.
Hey Yak, Can the Immortals ride a Ghost Arc the same way a royal court can? ie, not take one, but get inside it during the game and use it as a means of mobility?
Or are they limited to the Night Scythe?
And also, if you put minimum warriors in a Ghost Arc, say starting strength of 5, can its regeneration ability bring the squad size up to ten, or is it limited to up to the starting strength.?
So others have mentioned that in the new Monolith notes on GW's site that the Deep Strike special rule has an asterisk by it.
Combine that with the fact that the author recommends that you 'Deep Strike it onto an enemy-held objective' certainly makes it sound like they've added some sort of additional rules back to the Monolith regarding Deep Strike beyond what was in the version of the codex I had.
Anyone with a White Dwarf was there any mention of the Monolith's Deep Strike capabilities in the new codex?
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shadzinator wrote:Hey Yak, Can the Immortals ride a Ghost Arc the same way a royal court can? ie, not take one, but get inside it during the game and use it as a means of mobility?
Or are they limited to the Night Scythe?
No it specifically lists which models can ride in a Ghost Ark (the ones I list in the first page summary of this thread) and Immortals are not one of the listed models.
So others have mentioned that in the new Monolith notes on GW's site that the Deep Strike special rule has an asterisk by it.
Combine that with the fact that the author recommends that you 'Deep Strike it onto an enemy-held objective' certainly makes it sound like they've added some sort of additional rules back to the Monolith regarding Deep Strike beyond what was in the version of the codex I had.
Anyone with a White Dwarf was there any mention of the Monolith's Deep Strike capabilities in the new codex?
Nope I bought the WD today and both monoliths in the battle report started on the field. Didn't mention anything about deep-strike immunity.
The points cost has remained the same however. So if they have then its a free bonus.
Whats everyones issue with I2? Higher doesn't fit with the fluff. Necrons are described all over the gw site as an elite shooty/gunline army. Robot automatons arent going to be faster than super soldiers, pure CC armies and eldar. Maybe I play a little too much Lizardmen but there are always ways to get around it like baiting CC units into a clump and then spam templates. If you want high I and strong shooting play the eldar armies. Almost every model we have has a save no other army does and we have all these new guns to destroy troops. If you want to be pissed about something CC related, be pissed that the only thing that can carry your CC stuff isnt in the first wave.
The beauty about Necrons (and what i am looking forward to using the most) is teleporting to setup horrible cross fires to catch those elite CC units in (im looking at you, BAs and SWs!!).
They think they are moving in to charge a poor lonly uit of necons then, BAMF, 2 monolith slide up and drop of 20 more warriros and they fire off 60 gauss shots between them.
I think most (if not all) of our new CC units will be either solid counter punch units or have some sort of funky wargear to lower their opponent iniative or raise their own.
Personally i prefer shooty armies so i will most likely be firleding masses of warriors/immortals along with a coupel of Monolith. my FA slots will most likely be filled with Scarabs as that entropic strike sounds too good not to have (and i also have 20 swarms already and ant afford to buy loads fo new models). For CC i am tempted to get a unit of Lychguard with shields.
Whats everyones issue with I2? Higher doesn't fit with the fluff
except that lords, pariahs (now crypteks, lychguard or praetorians i guess) flayed ones, wraiths and c'tan have had higher than I2 for close to a decade! wraiths used to be I6!
For those of us who dont have the funds to buy all the new units. Does anyone think me using my old Pariah modes as Crypteks would be a problem? From what I understand they have staff/stave weapons anyway so the warscythe could easily be a counts-as tremor-stave etc.
That seems to be one of the directions people are going.
I'm thinking of converting a bunch from a mash-up of the warriors kit and the bits left over from when I make my Immortals and Lytchguard. May need to GS some beards and loincloths.
Hox wrote:Whats everyones issue with I2? Higher doesn't fit with the fluff. Necrons are described all over the gw site as an elite shooty/gunline army. Robot automatons arent going to be faster than super soldiers, pure CC armies and eldar. Maybe I play a little too much Lizardmen but there are always ways to get around it like baiting CC units into a clump and then spam templates. If you want high I and strong shooting play the eldar armies. Almost every model we have has a save no other army does and we have all these new guns to destroy troops. If you want to be pissed about something CC related, be pissed that the only thing that can carry your CC stuff isnt in the first wave.
Hox wrote:Whats everyones issue with I2? Higher doesn't fit with the fluff. Necrons are described all over the gw site as an elite shooty/gunline army. Robot automatons arent going to be faster than super soldiers, pure CC armies and eldar. Maybe I play a little too much Lizardmen but there are always ways to get around it like baiting CC units into a clump and then spam templates. If you want high I and strong shooting play the eldar armies. Almost every model we have has a save no other army does and we have all these new guns to destroy troops. If you want to be pissed about something CC related, be pissed that the only thing that can carry your CC stuff isnt in the first wave.
JoTWW spam.
Not sure if you are saying what I presented was similar to JoTWW or if your saying it will beat necrons... Its one army that has jaws so I dont think you can knock an entire strat because one thing in one army counters it.
A question about Crypteks. Is there a limit to how many abilities they can use in a turn?
Imagine you have a Royal Court with one of each Harbinger. Can you use an ability from each (not attacks) in the same turn?
Does using the ability from a Cryptek attached to a unit effect what that unit can do in their turn?
Sidenote: Anyone notice that Ward said, "Harbingers of Eternity grant re-rolls to their unit and sap the fighting ability of enemies (Chronometron and Aeonstave)". Depending on how the reroll works, HoE may be the strongest choice for a Tesla equipped unit. (I'm looking at you, Immortals!)
Very impressed with the models. Who sculpted these? The only thing I really don't like are the flayed ones and some of the lords look a little too blinged out...
To the JotWW spam, it appears from the WD description of Ressurection Protocols that we'll still get an additional 5+ (4+ with orb) throw after failing the initiative test.
It's not as scary vs necrons as it is vs Tyranids, for sure.
One thing that caught my eye while looking at the C'Tan Shard rules posted with the preorder was the Lord of Fire power, "which makes flamer and melta weapons explode." Any word on how this works? As someone with two monoliths who just lost immunity to melta weapons this power might become an obligatory selection against certain armies (marines, guard, sisters, and eldar to a lesser extent). If it helps preserve quantum shielding I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of Ghost/Doomsday Ark spam tournament builds with the Stormlord for nightfight to negate longer ranged firing in the first few turns and a C'tan with Lord of Fire to negate melta.
Also the WD says that the shield Lychguard are 5 points more expensive, which is 45 points. So our TH/SS terminator is actually more expensive than the marine one, with worse saves.
Unix wrote:One thing that caught my eye while looking at the C'Tan Shard rules posted with the preorder was the Lord of Fire power, "which makes flamer and melta weapons explode." Any word on how this works? As someone with two monoliths who just lost immunity to melta weapons this power might become an obligatory selection against certain armies (marines, guard, sisters, and eldar to a lesser extent). If it helps preserve quantum shielding I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of Ghost/Doomsday Ark spam tournament builds with the Stormlord for nightfight to negate longer ranged firing in the first few turns and a C'tan with Lord of Fire to negate melta.
I'm pretty sure it gives flamers and meltas the 'gets hot!' rule (flamers would have to roll a separate dice before firing like plasma cannons). Not reliable in any sense but nice to know that if mr. meltagun misses critically it might kill itself. Don't forget the catacomb command barge allows you to allocate wounds on to hit rolls of 6 with sweeping attacks...so you can potentially kill the meltagunner in a squad with your overlord as well.
To the c'tan rumors, this guy (badtaste) seemed to have perhaps the same copy (or one similar) to Yak's, his future tact articles (once you deciphered them) are pretty close to what we're seeing in this thread and also in the WD battle report.
Hox wrote:Whats everyones issue with I2? Higher doesn't fit with the fluff. Necrons are described all over the gw site as an elite shooty/gunline army. Robot automatons arent going to be faster than super soldiers, pure CC armies and eldar. Maybe I play a little too much Lizardmen but there are always ways to get around it like baiting CC units into a clump and then spam templates. If you want high I and strong shooting play the eldar armies. Almost every model we have has a save no other army does and we have all these new guns to destroy troops. If you want to be pissed about something CC related, be pissed that the only thing that can carry your CC stuff isnt in the first wave.
JoTWW spam.
Not sure if you are saying what I presented was similar to JoTWW or if your saying it will beat necrons... Its one army that has jaws so I dont think you can knock an entire strat because one thing in one army counters it.
I had to box up my 'nid army due to the amount of SW players in my area, so my opinion may be isolated.
shadzinator wrote:Also the WD says that the shield Lychguard are 5 points more expensive, which is 45 points. So our TH/SS terminator is actually more expensive than the marine one, with worse saves.
tetrisphreak wrote:To the JotWW spam, it appears from the WD description of Ressurection Protocols that we'll still get an additional 5+ (4+ with orb) throw after failing the initiative test.
It's not as scary vs necrons as it is vs Tyranids, for sure.
Hox wrote:Whats everyones issue with I2? Higher doesn't fit with the fluff. Necrons are described all over the gw site as an elite shooty/gunline army. Robot automatons arent going to be faster than super soldiers, pure CC armies and eldar. Maybe I play a little too much Lizardmen but there are always ways to get around it like baiting CC units into a clump and then spam templates. If you want high I and strong shooting play the eldar armies. Almost every model we have has a save no other army does and we have all these new guns to destroy troops. If you want to be pissed about something CC related, be pissed that the only thing that can carry your CC stuff isnt in the first wave.
JoTWW spam.
Not sure if you are saying what I presented was similar to JoTWW or if your saying it will beat necrons... Its one army that has jaws so I dont think you can knock an entire strat because one thing in one army counters it.
I had to box up my 'nid army due to the amount of SW players in my area, so my opinion may be isolated.
Ahh so it would be quite important to you. My missus is my usual opponent and she hates human races
Unix wrote:One thing that caught my eye while looking at the C'Tan Shard rules posted with the preorder was the Lord of Fire power, "which makes flamer and melta weapons explode." Any word on how this works? As someone with two monoliths who just lost immunity to melta weapons this power might become an obligatory selection against certain armies (marines, guard, sisters, and eldar to a lesser extent). If it helps preserve quantum shielding I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of Ghost/Doomsday Ark spam tournament builds with the Stormlord for nightfight to negate longer ranged firing in the first few turns and a C'tan with Lord of Fire to negate melta.
It's basically just that those types of weapons fired within 12" of the C'Tan (not even just units, the actual models with the weapons have to be within range) basically roll an extra D6 like Gets Hot and on a roll of 1 they explode killing the model or counting as a weapon destroyed on a vehicle.
So it's pretty tame, but at least it's one of the cheapest powers you can take.
White Dwarf #382 wrote: Whenever a necron is removed as a casualty, the unit accrues a counter. At the end of a phase, you roll a D6 for every counter accrued that phase. On a 5+ you can return a model back to the squad as the android's sophisticated self-repair systems take effect.
So going by that wording (which is not straight from the codex but WD is pretty close) it seems like we can RP from jaws, and even death or glory attempts. We'll see the final wording in about a week.
Unix wrote:One thing that caught my eye while looking at the C'Tan Shard rules posted with the preorder was the Lord of Fire power, "which makes flamer and melta weapons explode." Any word on how this works? As someone with two monoliths who just lost immunity to melta weapons this power might become an obligatory selection against certain armies (marines, guard, sisters, and eldar to a lesser extent). If it helps preserve quantum shielding I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of Ghost/Doomsday Ark spam tournament builds with the Stormlord for nightfight to negate longer ranged firing in the first few turns and a C'tan with Lord of Fire to negate melta.
It's basically just that those types of weapons fired within 12" of the C'Tan (not even just units, the actual models with the weapons have to be within range) basically roll an extra D6 like Gets Hot and on a roll of 1 they explode killing the model or counting as a weapon destroyed on a vehicle.
So it's pretty tame, but at least it's one of the cheapest powers you can take.
It kills the model outright? No saves of any sort?
Unix wrote:One thing that caught my eye while looking at the C'Tan Shard rules posted with the preorder was the Lord of Fire power, "which makes flamer and melta weapons explode." Any word on how this works? As someone with two monoliths who just lost immunity to melta weapons this power might become an obligatory selection against certain armies (marines, guard, sisters, and eldar to a lesser extent). If it helps preserve quantum shielding I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of Ghost/Doomsday Ark spam tournament builds with the Stormlord for nightfight to negate longer ranged firing in the first few turns and a C'tan with Lord of Fire to negate melta.
It's basically just that those types of weapons fired within 12" of the C'Tan (not even just units, the actual models with the weapons have to be within range) basically roll an extra D6 like Gets Hot and on a roll of 1 they explode killing the model or counting as a weapon destroyed on a vehicle.
So it's pretty tame, but at least it's one of the cheapest powers you can take.
I'm not surprised the power is that tame - in the slightest - it did have potential to substantially increase the toughness of monoliths again if it were a longer range and/or more reliable explode.
I think it would've been much better if it were 24"; melta weapons would then be much less likely to scratch the new cheaper monolith then IMHO.
MasterSlowPoke wrote:Found this on the Heavy Destroyer page:
Heavy Destroyers provide long range firepower for a Necron army. Their speed and weapon range makes them perfect for sniping enemy vehicles and elite units. At strength 9 and AP2 the Heavy Gauss Cannon will penetrate even the thickest armour. Your Heavy Destroyers can also be used to give you an advantage in the deployment phase. By deploying a Heavy Destroyer first you can wait and see where your opponent puts his own choice before committing a more expensive unit like a Monolith. Again, using a single Heavy Destroyer, you can push your opponent right back into his deployment zone. By deploying your Heavy Destroyer as far forward as possible you will force your opponent to deploy his units 24" back into his own table half, your Heavy destroyer can then turbo boost to a more sensible position on the first turn.
Doesn't really make a whole lot of sense.
Possibly incoming 6th edition rule?
Afterall, this is a 6th edition codex and not all of it will make sense... Maybe in 6th you deploy squads at a time and take turns *shrugs*
Codex SHOULD clear a bit up if anything.
Not likely a 6th edition rule since the blurb goes on to talk about how a heavy destroyer can turbo boost when we know that is not the case now since it's JI. Plus, when necrons first came out it was 3rd edition and I believe the rules for army setup were vastly different then, in that you deployed based on FOC slot and took turns with your opponent deploying your forces.
Unix wrote:One thing that caught my eye while looking at the C'Tan Shard rules posted with the preorder was the Lord of Fire power, "which makes flamer and melta weapons explode." Any word on how this works? As someone with two monoliths who just lost immunity to melta weapons this power might become an obligatory selection against certain armies (marines, guard, sisters, and eldar to a lesser extent). If it helps preserve quantum shielding I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of Ghost/Doomsday Ark spam tournament builds with the Stormlord for nightfight to negate longer ranged firing in the first few turns and a C'tan with Lord of Fire to negate melta.
I'm pretty sure it gives flamers and meltas the 'gets hot!' rule (flamers would have to roll a separate dice before firing like plasma cannons). Not reliable in any sense but nice to know that if mr. meltagun misses critically it might kill itself. Don't forget the catacomb command barge allows you to allocate wounds on to hit rolls of 6 with sweeping attacks...so you can potentially kill the meltagunner in a squad with your overlord as well.
yakface wrote:It's basically just that those types of weapons fired within 12" of the C'Tan (not even just units, the actual models with the weapons have to be within range) basically roll an extra D6 like Gets Hot and on a roll of 1 they explode killing the model or counting as a weapon destroyed on a vehicle.
So it's pretty tame, but at least it's one of the cheapest powers you can take.
Less good than I was hoping for. A lot of armies I face have a couple of melta suicide squads with multiple meltas in a transport to take out hard points. A 1/6 chance of negating each melta individually isn't going to help too much against that tactic, especially if they have to be in 12" of the C'Tan, since I don't feel like having my C'Tan babysit my monoliths. If it's cheap it might be worth taking anyway though.
Unfortunately the command barge isn't that useful against this tactic either, at least until the transport is popped. I'm probably going to rely on my usually tactic against this. In this case scarabs and destroyers for transport hunting to slow down the unit to be picked off at ease in future turns.
yakface wrote:
So others have mentioned that in the new Monolith notes on GW's site that the Deep Strike special rule has an asterisk by it.
Combine that with the fact that the author recommends that you 'Deep Strike it onto an enemy-held objective' certainly makes it sound like they've added some sort of additional rules back to the Monolith regarding Deep Strike beyond what was in the version of the codex I had.
Anyone with a White Dwarf was there any mention of the Monolith's Deep Strike capabilities in the new codex?
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shadzinator wrote:Hey Yak, Can the Immortals ride a Ghost Arc the same way a royal court can? ie, not take one, but get inside it during the game and use it as a means of mobility?
Or are they limited to the Night Scythe?
No it specifically lists which models can ride in a Ghost Ark (the ones I list in the first page summary of this thread) and Immortals are not one of the listed models.
The "heavy" listing has an asterisk next to it as well, leading me to believe there is more to that rule than just the "can only move 6 inches" bit. Like, perhaps, more bonuses to ramming?
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Hox wrote:Whats everyones issue with I2? Higher doesn't fit with the fluff. Necrons are described all over the gw site as an elite shooty/gunline army. Robot automatons arent going to be faster than super soldiers, pure CC armies and eldar. Maybe I play a little too much Lizardmen but there are always ways to get around it like baiting CC units into a clump and then spam templates. If you want high I and strong shooting play the eldar armies. Almost every model we have has a save no other army does and we have all these new guns to destroy troops. If you want to be pissed about something CC related, be pissed that the only thing that can carry your CC stuff isnt in the first wave.
Uhm, they're not all automatons. It's also just disheartening to see even your CC oriented units with ork initiative.
And also, as the other person said, it's been higher than 2 for so many staple units for so long that it just "feels" like a drastic hit. But with all the other awesome sh** they got now, it's easily overlooked.
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Byte wrote:
Hox wrote:Whats everyones issue with I2? Higher doesn't fit with the fluff. Necrons are described all over the gw site as an elite shooty/gunline army. Robot automatons arent going to be faster than super soldiers, pure CC armies and eldar. Maybe I play a little too much Lizardmen but there are always ways to get around it like baiting CC units into a clump and then spam templates. If you want high I and strong shooting play the eldar armies. Almost every model we have has a save no other army does and we have all these new guns to destroy troops. If you want to be pissed about something CC related, be pissed that the only thing that can carry your CC stuff isnt in the first wave.
Could you give us a rundown of what some of the unmentioned cryptek wargear does? I have a feeling that the royal court will be what gives our army it's mutability, allowing units access to different types of weaponry.
More specifically, what does the Chronometron and the TimeSplinter cloak do in this book?
wuestenfux wrote:What's the thing with the Monolith. It has a special portal to suck in enemies? This is what the German website says.
Yep. Any enemy model within 6" has to take a S(?) test, or be removed from play.
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Sir Harry Flashman, VC wrote:Hopefullly the monolith has gained some deep strike protection, otherwise you would be pretty crazy to drop it onto a contested objective..
You know...I think there might be
Mat Ward from Games Development says:
The Monolith has long been a much-feared opponent, and now it's deadlier than ever. Whilst it's tempting to deploy the Monolith at the start of the game, it's almost always wiser to keep it in reserve - that way you can Deep Strike it onto an enemy-held objective. Once the Monolith has scoured the foe from the immediate area (try and eliminate melta weapons first - they can be a real problem) you can then use its eternity gate to teleport in a suitable scoring unit and take the objective for yourself. When the enemy counter attacks, simply switch the eternity gate into its portal of exile mode, and suck the primitives to their doom!
Well, for those concerned about the I2, someone quoted a list of units that used to be higher. Among them was the C'tan, which I just wanted to point out are still I4, and the fastest unit in the army. (And sometimes ties the named cryptic that powers up).
GiantSlingshot wrote:Well, for those concerned about the I2, someone quoted a list of units that used to be higher. Among them was the C'tan, which I just wanted to point out are still I4, and the fastest unit in the army. (And sometimes ties the named cryptic that powers up).
Well, the nightbringer was I4, the deceiver was I5.
scythewing wrote:Ok I have to ask... what's up with everything having initiative 2? Please we get something that allows us to knock opponents down to initiative 1 so taking our cc troops won’t be a huge waste of time and points.
Thats the way Necrons have always been. They are and continue to be an I2 army, if you don't like it don't play Necrons.
Kevin949 wrote:So, I just noticed that all the lords are now 1 wound along with the cryptek...well that's pretty crappy.
Also, I saw this little discrepancy....if this is the case, I'll never not take a destroyer lord.
You're comparing apples and oranges. Lords are no longer HQ choices, what you should be looking at are Destroyer Lords and Overlords.
GiantSlingshot wrote:Well, for those concerned about the I2, someone quoted a list of units that used to be higher. Among them was the C'tan, which I just wanted to point out are still I4, and the fastest unit in the army. (And sometimes ties the named cryptic that powers up).
The sweeping advance will be the dead of Necron units in cc. A C'tan should better be shot, with T7 and 4 wounds it will die horribly from shooting.
scythewing wrote:Ok I have to ask... what's up with everything having initiative 2? Please we get something that allows us to knock opponents down to initiative 1 so taking our cc troops won’t be a huge waste of time and points.
Thats the way Necrons have always been. They are and continue to be an I2 army, if you don't like it don't play Necrons.
Kevin949 wrote:So, I just noticed that all the lords are now 1 wound along with the cryptek...well that's pretty crappy.
Also, I saw this little discrepancy....if this is the case, I'll never not take a destroyer lord.
You're comparing apples and oranges. Lords are no longer HQ choices, what you should be looking at are Destroyer Lords and Overlords.
How is it apples to oranges dude? They're both lords...they're both not HQ choices as far as I know....the d.lord has three times the wounds, higher T (expected) AND an additional attack? Seems like a MASSIVE jump for something that should really just be a T upgrade and a movement upgrade to a standard lord (like it was before). Even the first sentence says it's still a LORD - "With its torso fused with a skimming flyer the Necron Lord becomes even more dangerous."
So, comparing him to overlords is apples to oranges.
Also, necrons were most certainly NOT an initiative 2 army if you took the proper CC choices. If you were fighting CC with your warriors and immortals, then you deserved the sweeping advance you got.
Its apples to oranges. Lords are only taken as part of a royal court (and don't count as an HQ choice). Destroyer Lords are an entirely separate HQ option outside of the court. Destroyer Lords are basically Overlords mounted on a destroyer chassis, despite the name.
chaos0xomega wrote:Its apples to oranges. Lords are only taken as part of a royal court (and don't count as an HQ choice). Destroyer Lords are an entirely separate HQ option outside of the court. Destroyer Lords are basically Overlords mounted on a destroyer chassis, despite the name.
In other words half the codex was higher than I2 since they were introduced, and in case of wraiths 3 times higher!
I'll concede the flayed ones and the lords are a disappointment.
But the wraiths now get 2 wounds, Rending, and get RP even from power weapons now, with no rez orb necessary.
They are Still going to go Before and fists/klaws/hammers, which are the only real instant death threats.
They are fearless, so, sweeps are no longer a threat.
It seems you can upgrade them individually, So, with 2 wounds and being able to fudge the wounds allocation, even a bunch of wounds can be mitigated.
And if that isn't enough, you can upgrade them to take whip coils.
Honestly, I will GLADLY take the new wraith over what they were. Even with them being JI now.
I think those who are clinging to the I6 are just being nostalgic at this point.
shadzinator wrote:Also the WD says that the shield Lychguard are 5 points more expensive, which is 45 points. So our TH/SS terminator is actually more expensive than the marine one, with worse saves.
Not really. Blood Angels pay +5 for theirs aswell. And Space Wolf TH/SS termies are over 60 points. Sure BT, DA, and generic marines get cheaper ones, but I think we will see them go the same way as the Blood Angels.
I also believe some people already did the math and said TH/SS Termies and Shield Lychguard are almost identical in survivability.
I have to admit I am more than a little bummed the Scythe isn't in this wave. I really wanted to run an Immortal Rush army at first but now I need to wait to at least see what it will look like.
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Marshal_Hadrial wrote:
shadzinator wrote:Also the WD says that the shield Lychguard are 5 points more expensive, which is 45 points. So our TH/SS terminator is actually more expensive than the marine one, with worse saves.
Not really. Blood Angels pay +5 for theirs aswell. And Space Wolf TH/SS termies are over 60 points. Sure BT, DA, and generic marines get cheaper ones, but I think we will see them go the same way as the Blood Angels.
I also believe some people already did the math and said TH/SS Termies and Shield Lychguard are almost identical in survivability.
I would agree with that except they didn't take getting wiped out to a man into account when doing the math. I still think they are plenty survivable though.
shadzinator wrote:Also the WD says that the shield Lychguard are 5 points more expensive, which is 45 points. So our TH/SS terminator is actually more expensive than the marine one, with worse saves.
Not really. Blood Angels pay +5 for theirs aswell. And Space Wolf TH/SS termies are over 60 points. Sure BT, DA, and generic marines get cheaper ones, but I think we will see them go the same way as the Blood Angels.
I also believe some people already did the math and said TH/SS Termies and Shield Lychguard are almost identical in survivability.
I'm pretty sure the BT terminators are 41 points base plus whatever TH/SS upgrade costs, which I think is about 15 points total maybe. At least, my friend always said his terminators were the same price as my wraiths before upgrades. Though usually we were comparing the pariahs and terminators.
*edit*
Looked at the FAQ and saw the point cost was for the assault squad. I don't know what it is for their termies then. *Shrug* regardless, low intiative or not, the necrons got a really really nice bump. I'm loving all the rending and power weapons abound.
I'll concede the flayed ones and the lords are a disappointment.
But the wraiths now get 2 wounds, Rending, and get RP even from power weapons now, with no rez orb necessary.
They are Still going to go Before and fists/klaws/hammers, which are the only real instant death threats.
They are fearless, so, sweeps are no longer a threat.
It seems you can upgrade them individually, So, with 2 wounds and being able to fudge the wounds allocation, even a bunch of wounds can be mitigated.
And if that isn't enough, you can upgrade them to take whip coils.
Honestly, I will GLADLY take the new wraith over what they were. Even with them being JI now.
I think those who are clinging to the I6 are just being nostalgic at this point.
wraiths i will give you have gained as much if not more than they have lost, i was just making a point for all those saying necrons have always been I2, since half of them have always been HIGHER than I2.
The flayed ones certainly have lost more than they have gained (lost horrifying visage and had their initiative halved, gained 1 attack)
HQ have particularly bad statlines now with their initiative halved and low ws/bs
Pariah substotutes (warscythe lychguards really) have been ridiculously nerfed - they have lost a point of initiative, lost ability to ignore inv saves and lost their inbuilt 24" S5 AP4 assault 2 ranged weapon, fearless, power to reduce enemy to LD7 and anti psyker powers in exchange for wbb, +2 strength and +1 attack at 4 points more!
I'll concede the flayed ones and the lords are a disappointment.
But the wraiths now get 2 wounds, Rending, and get RP even from power weapons now, with no rez orb necessary.
They are Still going to go Before and fists/klaws/hammers, which are the only real instant death threats.
They are fearless, so, sweeps are no longer a threat.
It seems you can upgrade them individually, So, with 2 wounds and being able to fudge the wounds allocation, even a bunch of wounds can be mitigated.
And if that isn't enough, you can upgrade them to take whip coils.
Honestly, I will GLADLY take the new wraith over what they were. Even with them being JI now.
I think those who are clinging to the I6 are just being nostalgic at this point.
wraiths i will give you have gained as much if not more than they have lost, i was just making a point for all those saying necrons have always been I2, since half of them have always been HIGHER than I2.
The flayed ones certainly have lost more than they have gained (lost horrifying visage and had their initiative halved, gained 1 attack)
HQ have particularly bad statlines now with their initiative halved and low ws/bs
Pariah substotutes (warscythe lychguards really) have lost a point of initiative, lost ability to ignore inv saves and lost their inbuilt 24" S5 AP4 assault 2 ranged weapon and anti psyker powers in exchange for wbb and +1 attack at 4 points more!
shadzinator wrote:Also the WD says that the shield Lychguard are 5 points more expensive, which is 45 points. So our TH/SS terminator is actually more expensive than the marine one, with worse saves.
Not really. Blood Angels pay +5 for theirs aswell. And Space Wolf TH/SS termies are over 60 points. Sure BT, DA, and generic marines get cheaper ones, but I think we will see them go the same way as the Blood Angels.
I also believe some people already did the math and said TH/SS Termies and Shield Lychguard are almost identical in survivability.
I'm pretty sure the BT terminators are 41 points base plus whatever TH/SS upgrade costs, which I think is about 15 points total maybe. At least, my friend always said his terminators were the same price as my wraiths before upgrades. Though usually we were comparing the pariahs and terminators.
*edit*
Looked at the FAQ and saw the point cost was for the assault squad. I don't know what it is for their termies then. *Shrug* regardless, low intiative or not, the necrons got a really really nice bump. I'm loving all the rending and power weapons abound.
BT Termies are the same as everyone elses except GK and SW. Shield and Hammer is a free trade like in the other marine codecies I previously mentioned in the last post. They do get more expensive though if you give them veteran abilities.. Which we can probably bet on disappearing in any new codex.
But anyways, my only gripe with the I2 among other things is that generic overlords look incredibily lackluster now with lowered I and low WS/BS with nothing in return. Compared to the special characters I can't see any reason to ever use a generic overlord except for a rez orb or to unlock a 2nd royal court... But the rez orb you can just get from your normal lords enless one feels like stocking up on crypteks. D. Lords on the other hand might have some better uses.
Yes, Necrons are a Low-I army. Eldar are a high-I army..Orks are low-I, Space Marines are mid-high I, tyranids have I across the board.....
what does it matter? Necrons are at their core a resilient, shooting army. yes they will swing next to last in CC...but guess what? with I4, they'd swing simul with marines, but last vs eldar variants. Vs orks it doesn't matter because a full squad of boyz will roll a bucketfull of dice whether they're hitting first, simul, or last. Sweeping advance is a crutch that the necrons have had to deal with since 5th started, but it's almost time for 6th to start and combat resolution might be handled completely differently.
Did i mention necrons have an additional saving throw after they lose models? And the base scoring troops have a DT that can add models lost back to a squad (reminds me of a mech tervigon). Like the fluff in the WD Batrep said, "Necrons need killing 2 or 3 times before they realize they've lost."
All in all the army has it's own inherent strengths and weaknesses, just like every other xenos book. The only all-rounder army you'll find are Space Marine variants, but if you play xenos directly to their inherent strengths you'll outplay vanilla marines every time. I2 will not be the end of necrons, i swear by it.
I'm trying to gather as much info as possible on a strategy to use for competitiveness and heres my prediction for my own army:
????? HQ 3+ Immortals tesla spam
1-2 Doomsday arcs
Necron Lords with rez orbs( Ive been relying on em since 3rd)
1 Squad of Praetorians
1 squad of lychguard
20 Flayed ones
1-2 night scythes
X Wraiths
14 scarabs
10 warriors
Monolith
This will be easily 1500-1850 (Hopefully)
Well, the new Necrons might be good at shooting but you'll hardly win by shooting alone. I'm skeptical if Necrons will be a really good army - top tier.
wuestenfux wrote:. I'm skeptical if Necrons will be a really good army - top tier.
I didn't mean to imply they would be. They will win games, but just like vanilla marines, DE, Blood angels, and Orks you won't see them in large numbers at GT's. Probably.\\
edit - The update will pole-vault them leagues ahead of where they stand in the current metagame, however, I think we can ALL agree on that (Initiative 2 or not)
tetrisphreak wrote:Yes, Necrons are a Low-I army. Eldar are a high-I army..Orks are low-I, Space Marines are mid-high I, tyranids have I across the board.....
what does it matter? Necrons are at their core a resilient, shooting army. yes they will swing next to last in CC...but guess what? with I4, they'd swing simul with marines, but last vs eldar variants. Vs orks it doesn't matter because a full squad of boyz will roll a bucketfull of dice whether they're hitting first, simul, or last. Sweeping advance is a crutch that the necrons have had to deal with since 5th started, but it's almost time for 6th to start and combat resolution might be handled completely differently.
Did i mention necrons have an additional saving throw after they lose models? And the base scoring troops have a DT that can add models lost back to a squad (reminds me of a mech tervigon). Like the fluff in the WD Batrep said, "Necrons need killing 2 or 3 times before they realize they've lost."
All in all the army has it's own inherent strengths and weaknesses, just like every other xenos book. The only all-rounder army you'll find are Space Marine variants, but if you play xenos directly to their inherent strengths you'll outplay vanilla marines every time. I2 will not be the end of necrons, i swear by it.
But again, that second save is useless if they lose combat and get swept. Which they're slightly more apt to do now BECAUSE they're going last or simultaneously so they'll have potentially fewer swings back at the enemy and less of a chance to tie or win combat. Do keep in mind though that most people are talking about going up against other armies/units that have a number of power weapons in them that won't allow an armor save to begin with and even though a few guys do get invul saves, the bulk of the army does not.
But as others have said, combat resolution very well may change drastically in 6th edition. personally, I hope it does. Out of everything in WH40K, combat resolution is my absolute least favorite rule(s) and completely one-sided. And yes, I felt that way when it was my wraiths sweeping my opponent. Mainly because I had it done to me SO many times before, I knew exactly how sh***y it felt to lose an entire squad to one stupid die roll.
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wuestenfux wrote:Well, the new Necrons might be good at shooting but you'll hardly win by shooting alone. I'm skeptical if Necrons will be a really good army - top tier.
I beg to differ, I've won quite a number of games with just shooting.
Defeatmyarmy wrote:I'm trying to gather as much info as possible on a strategy to use for competitiveness and heres my prediction for my own army:
????? HQ 3+ Immortals tesla spam
1-2 Doomsday arcs
Necron Lords with rez orbs( Ive been relying on em since 3rd)
1 Squad of Praetorians
1 squad of lychguard
20 Flayed ones
1-2 night scythes
X Wraiths
14 scarabs
10 warriors
Monolith
This will be easily 1500-1850 (Hopefully)
Mine will be looking something like this.
Stormlord
Overlord on destroyer body
Two 10 man squads of Triarch Praetorians
Two 10 man units of immortals, either with gauss blasters or tesla carbines.
Two 5 man units of warriors.
2 3 man units of destroyers.
big unit of scarabs.
2 Annihilation barges
monolith
tetrisphreak wrote:Yes, Necrons are a Low-I army. Eldar are a high-I army..Orks are low-I, Space Marines are mid-high I, tyranids have I across the board.....
what does it matter? Necrons are at their core a resilient, shooting army. yes they will swing next to last in CC...but guess what? with I4, they'd swing simul with marines, but last vs eldar variants. Vs orks it doesn't matter because a full squad of boyz will roll a bucketfull of dice whether they're hitting first, simul, or last. Sweeping advance is a crutch that the necrons have had to deal with since 5th started, but it's almost time for 6th to start and combat resolution might be handled completely differently.
Did i mention necrons have an additional saving throw after they lose models? And the base scoring troops have a DT that can add models lost back to a squad (reminds me of a mech tervigon). Like the fluff in the WD Batrep said, "Necrons need killing 2 or 3 times before they realize they've lost."
All in all the army has it's own inherent strengths and weaknesses, just like every other xenos book. The only all-rounder army you'll find are Space Marine variants, but if you play xenos directly to their inherent strengths you'll outplay vanilla marines every time. I2 will not be the end of necrons, i swear by it.
But again, that second save is useless if they lose combat and get swept. Which they're slightly more apt to do now BECAUSE they're going last or simultaneously so they'll have potentially fewer swings back at the enemy and less of a chance to tie or win combat. Do keep in mind though that most people are talking about going up against other armies/units that have a number of power weapons in them that won't allow an armor save to begin with and even though a few guys do get invul saves, the bulk of the army does not.
But as others have said, combat resolution very well may change drastically in 6th edition. personally, I hope it does. Out of everything in WH40K, combat resolution is my absolute least favorite rule(s) and completely one-sided. And yes, I felt that way when it was my wraiths sweeping my opponent. Mainly because I had it done to me SO many times before, I knew exactly how sh***y it felt to lose an entire squad to one stupid die roll.
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wuestenfux wrote:Well, the new Necrons might be good at shooting but you'll hardly win by shooting alone. I'm skeptical if Necrons will be a really good army - top tier.
I beg to differ, I've won quite a number of games with just shooting.
Yeah, the Sweeping advance rule is kinda stupid. I mean, explain to me how a single wytch could potentially wipe out a 10 man squad of orks?
tetrisphreak wrote:Yes, Necrons are a Low-I army. Eldar are a high-I army..Orks are low-I, Space Marines are mid-high I, tyranids have I across the board.....
what does it matter? Necrons are at their core a resilient, shooting army. yes they will swing next to last in CC...but guess what? with I4, they'd swing simul with marines, but last vs eldar variants. Vs orks it doesn't matter because a full squad of boyz will roll a bucketfull of dice whether they're hitting first, simul, or last. Sweeping advance is a crutch that the necrons have had to deal with since 5th started, but it's almost time for 6th to start and combat resolution might be handled completely differently.
Did i mention necrons have an additional saving throw after they lose models? And the base scoring troops have a DT that can add models lost back to a squad (reminds me of a mech tervigon). Like the fluff in the WD Batrep said, "Necrons need killing 2 or 3 times before they realize they've lost."
All in all the army has it's own inherent strengths and weaknesses, just like every other xenos book. The only all-rounder army you'll find are Space Marine variants, but if you play xenos directly to their inherent strengths you'll outplay vanilla marines every time. I2 will not be the end of necrons, i swear by it.
But again, that second save is useless if they lose combat and get swept. Which they're slightly more apt to do now BECAUSE they're going last or simultaneously so they'll have potentially fewer swings back at the enemy and less of a chance to tie or win combat. Do keep in mind though that most people are talking about going up against other armies/units that have a number of power weapons in them that won't allow an armor save to begin with and even though a few guys do get invul saves, the bulk of the army does not.
But as others have said, combat resolution very well may change drastically in 6th edition. personally, I hope it does. Out of everything in WH40K, combat resolution is my absolute least favorite rule(s) and completely one-sided. And yes, I felt that way when it was my wraiths sweeping my opponent. Mainly because I had it done to me SO many times before, I knew exactly how sh***y it felt to lose an entire squad to one stupid die roll.
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wuestenfux wrote:Well, the new Necrons might be good at shooting but you'll hardly win by shooting alone. I'm skeptical if Necrons will be a really good army - top tier.
I beg to differ, I've won quite a number of games with just shooting.
Yeah, the Sweeping advance rule is kinda stupid. I mean, explain to me how a single wytch could potentially wipe out a 5 man squad of marines?
Well marines have atsknf so they dont have to worry about that fact
Kevin949 wrote:But as others have said, combat resolution very well may change drastically in 6th edition. personally, I hope it does. Out of everything in WH40K, combat resolution is my absolute least favorite rule(s) and completely one-sided. And yes, I felt that way when it was my wraiths sweeping my opponent. Mainly because I had it done to me SO many times before, I knew exactly how sh***y it felt to lose an entire squad to one stupid die roll.
Sadly, there's about a 50/50 chance that GW will get it any better this time around, either. As opposed to just changing it in a random way and hoping for the best.
tetrisphreak wrote:Yes, Necrons are a Low-I army. Eldar are a high-I army..Orks are low-I, Space Marines are mid-high I, tyranids have I across the board.....
what does it matter? Necrons are at their core a resilient, shooting army. yes they will swing next to last in CC...but guess what? with I4, they'd swing simul with marines, but last vs eldar variants. Vs orks it doesn't matter because a full squad of boyz will roll a bucketfull of dice whether they're hitting first, simul, or last. Sweeping advance is a crutch that the necrons have had to deal with since 5th started, but it's almost time for 6th to start and combat resolution might be handled completely differently.
Did i mention necrons have an additional saving throw after they lose models? And the base scoring troops have a DT that can add models lost back to a squad (reminds me of a mech tervigon). Like the fluff in the WD Batrep said, "Necrons need killing 2 or 3 times before they realize they've lost."
All in all the army has it's own inherent strengths and weaknesses, just like every other xenos book. The only all-rounder army you'll find are Space Marine variants, but if you play xenos directly to their inherent strengths you'll outplay vanilla marines every time. I2 will not be the end of necrons, i swear by it.
But again, that second save is useless if they lose combat and get swept. Which they're slightly more apt to do now BECAUSE they're going last or simultaneously so they'll have potentially fewer swings back at the enemy and less of a chance to tie or win combat. Do keep in mind though that most people are talking about going up against other armies/units that have a number of power weapons in them that won't allow an armor save to begin with and even though a few guys do get invul saves, the bulk of the army does not.
But as others have said, combat resolution very well may change drastically in 6th edition. personally, I hope it does. Out of everything in WH40K, combat resolution is my absolute least favorite rule(s) and completely one-sided. And yes, I felt that way when it was my wraiths sweeping my opponent. Mainly because I had it done to me SO many times before, I knew exactly how sh***y it felt to lose an entire squad to one stupid die roll.
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wuestenfux wrote:Well, the new Necrons might be good at shooting but you'll hardly win by shooting alone. I'm skeptical if Necrons will be a really good army - top tier.
I beg to differ, I've won quite a number of games with just shooting.
Yeah, the Sweeping advance rule is kinda stupid. I mean, explain to me how a single wytch could potentially wipe out a 10 man squad of orks?
Well marines have atsknf so they dont have to worry about that fact
fix'd
Yeah I remember that fact.
Funny how marines are the only non-fearless army immune to that rule
I don't think the Sweeping Advance is so much of an issue. Compared to other shooty armies like Guard and Tau.. I think Necrons have it better in the "Withstanding melee" department compared to the other two races due to Necrons higher WS, T, LD, and better save. Sure it does suck to get swept, but isn't the point of a shooty unit to shoot and stay back as to not get in melee? Sure that happens inevitably, but if Guard and Tau can manage it with being even worse off and Necron players have been managing with it I think things will be fine. As for melee units like Wraiths and Lycheguard being I2 and being CC oriented units I think they will be fine due to their higher number of attacks and for Lycheguard higher toughness. Wraiths with fearless, and the coils. The only units I think to really worry about being swept are the basic troops(Deathmarks aswell I supose), but with not being able to put any number of lords/crypteks in those units you can increase the return attacks and I'm sure a lesser Lord could very well turn the tide in a melee now for Necrons.
I understand guard are a hordy army and so a loss of 1 squad might not hurt as much, but if you are playing against a Veteran based army it can make a difference.
I think Sweeping Advance as a rule should perhaps change to something like Overruning a unit in WHFB.. Where the fleeing unit runs away 1-2d6(or what have you) and the chasing unit can choose to stay put or go after them and must roll to see if they catch up.. If they do the fleeing unit is destroyed. I think this could be something more balanced or favourable to shooty armies trying to get away from a failed combat. A stand and shoot option for before engaging in close combat could also make all the difference.
wuestenfux wrote:Well, the new Necrons might be good at shooting but you'll hardly win by shooting alone. I'm skeptical if Necrons will be a really good army - top tier.
I think Necrons have all the Tools needed to win, it perhaps won't be as easy as something Like IG where you sit in a parking lot and let loose. I do think Necrons will have what it takes to compete up there though. Matt Ward's codexes have consistently been balanced rules-wise, and I don't see why this one should be any different.
As far as what my list is going to look like? I have general Ideas in my Head, I just need to see the points cost for things but Probably something like this
HQ- The Stormlord, Catacomb Command Barge
HQ- Necron Overlord, Warscythe, Semiperternal Weave, Phase Shifter, Tachyon Arrow. Catacomb Command Barge (Depending on the cost of the Wargear, of course.)
Elite- 5 Lycheguard, with Hyperphase swords and Dispersion shields. Necron Lord, Warscythe, Phase shifter, Rez orb (Depending if I can take that much Wargear)
Elite- Triarch Stalker with A Gauss Cannon, Maybe a Heavy Gauss cannon if that's an option
Elite- Triarch Stalker with A Gauss Cannon, Maybe a Heavy Gauss cannon if that's an option
Troops- 9 Necron Warriors, with a Cryptek, Eldritch Lance, Solar Pulse. Ghost Ark.
Troops- 9 Necron Warriors, with a Cryptek, Eldritch Lance, Solar Pulse. Ghost Ark.
Troops- 9 Necron Warriors, with a Cryptek, Eldritch Lance. Ghost Ark.
Fast- 10 Swarm of Scarabs
Fast- 10 Swarm of Scarabs
Fast- 10 Swarm of Scarabs
Now, I Know I won't be able to run all of that in 2K points (Not even close I'm sure) so of course it'll take some trimming. But that's the general Idea floating around in my head right now
Marshal_Hadrial wrote:I don't think the Sweeping Advance is so much of an issue. Compared to other shooty armies like Guard and Tau.. I think Necrons have it better in the "Withstanding melee" department compared to the other two races due to Necrons higher WS, T, LD, and better save. Sure it does suck to get swept, but isn't the point of a shooty unit to shoot and stay back as to not get in melee? Sure that happens inevitably, but if Guard and Tau can manage it with being even worse off and Necron players have been managing with it I think things will be fine. As for melee units like Wraiths and Lycheguard being I2 and being CC oriented units I think they will be fine due to their higher number of attacks and for Lycheguard higher toughness. Wraiths with fearless, and the coils. The only units I think to really worry about being swept are the basic troops(Deathmarks aswell I supose), but with not being able to put any number of lords/crypteks in those units you can increase the return attacks and I'm sure a lesser Lord could very well turn the tide in a melee now for Necrons.
I understand guard are a hordy army and so a loss of 1 squad might not hurt as much, but if you are playing against a Veteran based army it can make a difference.
True...but the problem is that the necrons are known to have mainly shortranged weapondry. It might be ok now, due to the inclusion of Arks and Tesla cannons, but before the longest ranged weapon were the Gauss Cannons at 36"...and you generally don't get alot of those.
Sure it does suck to get swept, but isn't the point of a shooty unit to shoot and stay back as to not get in melee? Sure that happens inevitably, but if Guard and Tau can manage it with being even worse off and Necron players have been managing with it I think things will be fine
Tau and guard both a lot more longer range units than necron who need to get closer for their shooting. Before if they got into combat they had options to pull them out of it (vods and monoliths) but both of those can no longer do this, so now if they get caught in combat they are stuck and will get wiped out.
Wow alot of people are putting down such small numbers of models. Here I'm thinking of taking hordes of warriors for that death march back from 3rd ed. The good times.
Loving the Lychguard models, and I'm willing to bet they'll have some niche uses, especially if transported by a VoD.
Praetorians on the other hand? What the hell? I2, no chance for invuln saves, no transport? At least with the shields I can assume a few lychguard will survive, but I don't see the praetorians living very long.
I guess their function might be fulfilled if we do something like rush the enemy with scarabs and deep strike them in when they're already occupied.
Kurgash wrote:Wow alot of people are putting down such small numbers of models. Here I'm thinking of taking hordes of warriors for that death march back from 3rd ed. The good times.
Oh hell yeah!
And its even better cause you can have Ghost Arks behind your phalanx of warriors, bringing but D3 models a turn.
Ostrakon wrote:Loving the Lychguard models, and I'm willing to bet they'll have some niche uses, especially if transported by a VoD.
Praetorians on the other hand? What the hell? I2, no chance for invuln saves, no transport? At least with the shields I can assume a few lychguard will survive, but I don't see the praetorians living very long.
I guess their function might be fulfilled if we do something like rush the enemy with scarabs and deep strike them in when they're already occupied.
I'm really having trouble seeing a Use for Praetorians as well. If they had a method that always allowed them to strike first? Then I could see them being taken, no problem. As of now, in either configuration, they seem lackluster.
Kurgash wrote:Wow alot of people are putting down such small numbers of models. Here I'm thinking of taking hordes of warriors for that death march back from 3rd ed. The good times.
At 17 points per I have to wonder if it will be feasilble to take Immortal Hordes and spend the first couple turns getting them into position via night fighting.
Immortals in cover will prove a pain to get rid of thanks to RP, and S5 AP4 shooting will be nasty. Take some anti-tank power from other units to deal with transports.
I mean, it's only 680 points for 40 Immortals! That strikes me as an extremely low point cost, especially if you screen them with a ghost ark or two.
And its even better cause you can have Ghost Arks behind your phalanx of warriors, bringing but D3 models a turn.
if only using the arks behind warriors for the d3 regen you're better off just taking more warriors. For the cost of 1 ark giving +d3 a turn (if a unit in range as taken casualties) you get 10 more warriors from the start, more than an ark is likely to give the whole game.
Ostrakon wrote:Loving the Lychguard models, and I'm willing to bet they'll have some niche uses, especially if transported by a VoD.
Praetorians on the other hand? What the hell? I2, no chance for invuln saves, no transport? At least with the shields I can assume a few lychguard will survive, but I don't see the praetorians living very long.
I guess their function might be fulfilled if we do something like rush the enemy with scarabs and deep strike them in when they're already occupied.
I'm really having trouble seeing a Use for Praetorians as well. If they had a method that always allowed them to strike first? Then I could see them being taken, no problem. As of now, in either configuration, they seem lackluster.
And its even better cause you can have Ghost Arks behind your phalanx of warriors, bringing but D3 models a turn.
if only using the arks behind warriors for the d3 regen you're better off just taking more warriors. For the cost of 1 ark giving +d3 a turn (if a unit in range as taken casualties) you get 10 more warriors from the start, more than an ark is likely to give the whole game.
So slow though.
Good looking horde for me would be 40 warriors in 4 Arks and command barge and doomsday ark support
Well, that's not really an issue for some of me. Now that I'm out of school the only thing my income really goes towards is my student loans, and that eats up $3K a month (minimum is much less than that, but I'm trying to pay them off within 5 years). If I only spend 2.5K on my loans in a given month and divert the rest to, say, a Necron army, I don't lose a lot of sleep over it.
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Kevin949 wrote:
Sasori wrote:
Ostrakon wrote:Loving the Lychguard models, and I'm willing to bet they'll have some niche uses, especially if transported by a VoD.
Praetorians on the other hand? What the hell? I2, no chance for invuln saves, no transport? At least with the shields I can assume a few lychguard will survive, but I don't see the praetorians living very long.
I guess their function might be fulfilled if we do something like rush the enemy with scarabs and deep strike them in when they're already occupied.
I'm really having trouble seeing a Use for Praetorians as well. If they had a method that always allowed them to strike first? Then I could see them being taken, no problem. As of now, in either configuration, they seem lackluster.
Ostrakon wrote:Loving the Lychguard models, and I'm willing to bet they'll have some niche uses, especially if transported by a VoD.
Praetorians on the other hand? What the hell? I2, no chance for invuln saves, no transport? At least with the shields I can assume a few lychguard will survive, but I don't see the praetorians living very long.
I guess their function might be fulfilled if we do something like rush the enemy with scarabs and deep strike them in when they're already occupied.
I'm really having trouble seeing a Use for Praetorians as well. If they had a method that always allowed them to strike first? Then I could see them being taken, no problem. As of now, in either configuration, they seem lackluster.
And its even better cause you can have Ghost Arks behind your phalanx of warriors, bringing but D3 models a turn.
if only using the arks behind warriors for the d3 regen you're better off just taking more warriors. For the cost of 1 ark giving +d3 a turn (if a unit in range as taken casualties) you get 10 more warriors from the start, more than an ark is likely to give the whole game.
So slow though.
Good looking horde for me would be 40 warriors in 4 Arks and command barge and doomsday ark support
I'm thinking there's probably a balance to be struck somewhere.
My "I-don't-have-the-codex-yet-why-am-I-even-bothering-to-do-this" lists include 2 full arks (with lance crypteks in them) and two 15-strong warrior squads. My thoughts with the Arks more or less revolve around parking warriors on objectives while my more mobile units terrorize the enemy (scarabs, destroyers, and command barge lords).
Ostrakon wrote:Loving the Lychguard models, and I'm willing to bet they'll have some niche uses, especially if transported by a VoD.
Praetorians on the other hand? What the hell? I2, no chance for invuln saves, no transport? At least with the shields I can assume a few lychguard will survive, but I don't see the praetorians living very long.
I guess their function might be fulfilled if we do something like rush the enemy with scarabs and deep strike them in when they're already occupied.
I'm really having trouble seeing a Use for Praetorians as well. If they had a method that always allowed them to strike first? Then I could see them being taken, no problem. As of now, in either configuration, they seem lackluster.
St5 AP2 ranged weapon...there's your use.
So I use it to try to shoot a Terminator Squad? I'll get maybe 1 kill with that. Then I assault them, and get killed. It may have a use for Non TH/SS Termies, but the only time I see that is with Draigowing, and even then I'll be lucky if I do anymore than Kill a single Paladin.
Praetorians are quick assault troops. Position them to assault the enemy's long ranged firepower (heavy weapon teams, long fangs) or give them warscythes and let them go tank hunting ahead of your regular force.
LycheGuard are slower, more resilient with power weapons and a 4++ invuln save. Use them to screen your scoring units from the TH/SS terminators when possible.
If the enemy uses his dedicated assault to chase down your praetorians, he's giving you additional shooting phases to gun them down since they're not headed straight into your lines/objectives. There are more tactics to be had here after the codex releases (6 days) but for now I think if you play both units to their strengths you'll have quite a good time of it.
PS -- Praetorians - Elite jump infantry, Wraiths - FA Jump Infantry, Anni. Barges - Heavy fast skimmers. Scarabs - FA beasts....Necrons may have low I in CC but we have plenty of fast-moving units if we so choose to take them. And that doesn't even include yet the SSS (super-sonic scythes)
tetrisphreak wrote:Praetorians are quick assault troops. Position them to assault the enemy's long ranged firepower (heavy weapon teams, long fangs) or give them warscythes and let them go tank hunting ahead of your regular force.
LycheGuard are slower, more resilient with power weapons and a 4++ invuln save. Use them to screen your scoring units from the TH/SS terminators when possible.
If the enemy uses his dedicated assault to chase down your praetorians, he's giving you additional shooting phases to gun them down since they're not headed straight into your lines/objectives. There are more tactics to be had here after the codex releases (6 days) but for now I think if you play both units to their strengths you'll have quite a good time of it.
PS -- Praetorians - Elite jump infantry, Wraiths - FA Jump Infantry, Anni. Barges - Heavy fast skimmers. Scarabs - FA beasts....Necrons may have low I in CC but we have plenty of fast-moving units if we so choose to take them. And that doesn't even include yet the SSS (super-sonic scythes)
Praetorians don't get warscythes. They get a pistol and a rending weapon.
tetrisphreak wrote:Praetorians are quick assault troops. Position them to assault the enemy's long ranged firepower (heavy weapon teams, long fangs) or give them warscythes and let them go tank hunting ahead of your regular force.
LycheGuard are slower, more resilient with power weapons and a 4++ invuln save. Use them to screen your scoring units from the TH/SS terminators when possible.
If the enemy uses his dedicated assault to chase down your praetorians, he's giving you additional shooting phases to gun them down since they're not headed straight into your lines/objectives. There are more tactics to be had here after the codex releases (6 days) but for now I think if you play both units to their strengths you'll have quite a good time of it.
PS -- Praetorians - Elite jump infantry, Wraiths - FA Jump Infantry, Anni. Barges - Heavy fast skimmers. Scarabs - FA beasts....Necrons may have low I in CC but we have plenty of fast-moving units if we so choose to take them. And that doesn't even include yet the SSS (super-sonic scythes)
If I want to hunt long fangs or heavy weap teams, for the same price I'll grab Destroyers with more range and killing power immediately after a DS. (especially since PE working on shooting in the next ed will be enough to wipe out entire unprotected Dev squads/Long Fangs all at once) .Praets also can't take warscythes from what we've seen.
Ostrakon wrote:Loving the Lychguard models, and I'm willing to bet they'll have some niche uses, especially if transported by a VoD.
Praetorians on the other hand? What the hell? I2, no chance for invuln saves, no transport? At least with the shields I can assume a few lychguard will survive, but I don't see the praetorians living very long.
I guess their function might be fulfilled if we do something like rush the enemy with scarabs and deep strike them in when they're already occupied.
I'm really having trouble seeing a Use for Praetorians as well. If they had a method that always allowed them to strike first? Then I could see them being taken, no problem. As of now, in either configuration, they seem lackluster.
St5 AP2 ranged weapon...there's your use.
So I use it to try to shoot a Terminator Squad? I'll get maybe 1 kill with that. Then I assault them, and get killed. It may have a use for Non TH/SS Termies, but the only time I see that is with Draigowing, and even then I'll be lucky if I do anymore than Kill a single Paladin.
Or just shoot anything with it. It still negates FNP on other squads that have that. Just saying, it's one of the few AP2 weapons we have available on fast moving ground forces that can deepstrike...
Still yet, using them to distract and hunt down long range support of the enemy I think could do well.
Tervigons and carnifexes, even, with the s5 ap2 and s5 melee, should be fearful of suicide-praetorians.
It's an expensive suicide unit. at 200 points for 5, you can get the Doomsday Ark for cheaper, and it can bombard enemies from turn 1.
You'd need at least a minimum of 2 turns (Closer to 3) to get into combat with an enemies long range support, and by that time they may have accomplished what they need to do.
EDIT
Or just shoot anything with it. It still negates FNP on other squads that have that. Just saying, it's one of the few AP2 weapons we have available on fast moving ground forces that can deepstrike...
We have a Supersonic transport, and several things with a ton of range. We also have a lot of AP1, as well. I just don't see any of the benefits of the Praetorians out weighting the negatives.
Ostrakon wrote:Loving the Lychguard models, and I'm willing to bet they'll have some niche uses, especially if transported by a VoD.
Praetorians on the other hand? What the hell? I2, no chance for invuln saves, no transport? At least with the shields I can assume a few lychguard will survive, but I don't see the praetorians living very long.
I guess their function might be fulfilled if we do something like rush the enemy with scarabs and deep strike them in when they're already occupied.
I'm really having trouble seeing a Use for Praetorians as well. If they had a method that always allowed them to strike first? Then I could see them being taken, no problem. As of now, in either configuration, they seem lackluster.
St5 AP2 ranged weapon...there's your use.
So I use it to try to shoot a Terminator Squad? I'll get maybe 1 kill with that. Then I assault them, and get killed. It may have a use for Non TH/SS Termies, but the only time I see that is with Draigowing, and even then I'll be lucky if I do anymore than Kill a single Paladin.
Or just shoot anything with it. It still negates FNP on other squads that have that. Just saying, it's one of the few AP2 weapons we have available on fast moving ground forces that can deepstrike...
Oh, good point on the AP2. I hadn't considered negating FNP.
In either case, 40 points per makes for a bad suicide unit. For the price of a termy squad, they'll likely be blown to bits the turn they DS in either way, and there are cheaper units in the codex that will survive a full turn's assault and still merit enemy target priority, like scarabs.
Still yet, using them to distract and hunt down long range support of the enemy I think could do well.
Tervigons and carnifexes, even, with the s5 ap2 and s5 melee, should be fearful of suicide-praetorians.
At forty points each, I'm not sure "suicide squad" would be the best role for them.
I respect your opinion to disagree, and 40 points each is not cheap for sure.
I am going to playtest them, I have a feeling that if the kit includes enough bits to build 10 torsos (5 lyche, 5 praet) I can magnetize my models at the waist before making a final gameplay decision as to what their best role is. Who knows, they might turn out to be the Necron equivalent of swooping hawks, and never see competitive play as such. I just want to give them the benefit of the doubt for now.
as a disclaimer however upon hearing rumors of the tyranid Pyrovore I had hope for that model too. After reading its rules, It's the only model in the range I haven't even bought a single figure for.
Still yet, using them to distract and hunt down long range support of the enemy I think could do well.
Tervigons and carnifexes, even, with the s5 ap2 and s5 melee, should be fearful of suicide-praetorians.
At forty points each, I'm not sure "suicide squad" would be the best role for them.
I respect your opinion to disagree, and 40 points each is not cheap for sure.
I am going to playtest them, I have a feeling that if the kit includes enough bits to build 10 torsos (5 lyche, 5 praet) I can magnetize my models at the waist before making a final gameplay decision as to what their best role is. Who knows, they might turn out to be the Necron equivalent of swooping hawks, and never see competitive play as such. I just want to give them the benefit of the doubt for now.
as a disclaimer however upon hearing rumors of the tyranid Pyrovore I had hope for that model too. After reading its rules, It's the only model in the range I haven't even bought a single figure for.
You can look at the Sprues on the GW website, there appears to be only 5 Torsos. The real difference (If you look on the 360 pics) is two little extra bits on the back, to form the cage like look.
Still yet, using them to distract and hunt down long range support of the enemy I think could do well.
Tervigons and carnifexes, even, with the s5 ap2 and s5 melee, should be fearful of suicide-praetorians.
At forty points each, I'm not sure "suicide squad" would be the best role for them.
I respect your opinion to disagree, and 40 points each is not cheap for sure.
I am going to playtest them, I have a feeling that if the kit includes enough bits to build 10 torsos (5 lyche, 5 praet) I can magnetize my models at the waist before making a final gameplay decision as to what their best role is. Who knows, they might turn out to be the Necron equivalent of swooping hawks, and never see competitive play as such. I just want to give them the benefit of the doubt for now.
as a disclaimer however upon hearing rumors of the tyranid Pyrovore I had hope for that model too. After reading its rules, It's the only model in the range I haven't even bought a single figure for.
You can look at the Sprues on the GW website, there appears to be only 5 Torsos. The real difference (If you look on the 360 pics) is two little extra bits on the back, to form the cage like look.
Which is the biggest shame of all, because I am absolutely IN LOVE with the praetorian models.
I could see them being more useful if the DS rules change to allow assaults immediately after.
Thanks for the info, i'm going to look now. edit - It looks like there are 15 torso bits - 5 front torsos and 10 back torsos, so depending on which loadout you choose they share the same front torso. I might build 5 (at only $33 usd it's worth it for 200 pts of models) to test out, and then just build the rest as lycheguard.
Drats as to not being able to mag the torsos, magnetizing the jump packs and weapon arms will probably have to do.
Yes, deep-striking straight into assault is a vanguard veterans only type deal. If they change it to a universal allowance in 6th, then vanguard vets will get a points decrease when they re-do the vanilla marine codex.
tetrisphreak wrote:Yes, deep-striking straight into assault is a vanguard veterans only type deal. If they change it to a universal allowance in 6th, then vanguard vets will get a points decrease when they re-do the vanilla marine codex.
Defeatmyarmy wrote:I'm trying to gather as much info as possible on a strategy to use for competitiveness and heres my prediction for my own army:
????? HQ 3+ Immortals tesla spam
1-2 Doomsday arcs
Necron Lords with rez orbs( Ive been relying on em since 3rd)
1 Squad of Praetorians
1 squad of lychguard
20 Flayed ones
1-2 night scythes
X Wraiths
14 scarabs
10 warriors
Monolith
This will be easily 1500-1850 (Hopefully)
Mine will be looking something like this.
Stormlord
Overlord on destroyer body
Two 10 man squads of Triarch Praetorians
Two 10 man units of immortals, either with gauss blasters or tesla carbines.
Two 5 man units of warriors.
2 3 man units of destroyers.
big unit of scarabs.
2 Annihilation barges
monolith
What I'm looking at is:
HQ Nemesor & Obryon
Regular Overlord or Anrykyr (if he counts as an Overlord)
Royal Court: 5x Lords w/ res orbs (for warrior units), Cryptek w/ Veil of Darkness
Royal Court: Lords w/ whatever, Cryptek w/ Veil of Darkness
Elites
1-2 C'tan
Troops
4x 20 Warriors
Fast
2x 10 scarabs
Heavy
2-3 Doomsday Arks
Arks provide long range fire support, scarabs and C'tan make life difficult for my opponent, and I have 3x VoD's so I can get my warrior units jumping around all over the place.
BTW, I couldn't find it but is veil an immediate effect thing, or is it one of those 'remove the unit from the table and place it in reserve, they arrive via deep strike the next turn' type deals?
Who else isn't in love with the idea of the doomsday cannons? the ark can't move to fire the worthwhile blast, and at even at bs4, a blast-weapon isn't reliably going to hit what it shoots at. s9 ap1 large blast is certainly impressive, but I don't foresee it being super-reliable unless they change how blast weapons work in 6th ed.
tetrisphreak wrote:Who else isn't in love with the idea of the doomsday cannons? the ark can't move to fire the worthwhile blast, and at even at bs4, a blast-weapon isn't reliably going to hit what it shoots at. s9 ap1 large blast is certainly impressive, but I don't foresee it being super-reliable unless they change how blast weapons work in 6th ed.
Yeah, I'm extremely dismayed by the fact that it isn't ordnance, which is why I hope it either changes in 6E or is extremely cheap points-wise. I can't fathom it being more than a vindicator at its current functionality.
tetrisphreak wrote:Who else isn't in love with the idea of the doomsday cannons? the ark can't move to fire the worthwhile blast, and at even at bs4, a blast-weapon isn't reliably going to hit what it shoots at. s9 ap1 large blast is certainly impressive, but I don't foresee it being super-reliable unless they change how blast weapons work in 6th ed.
The Triarch Walker causes the entire army to be Twin linked, at whatever it shoots at. The only thing about the Doomsday Cannons I don't like is the cost, but even if the Blast Scatters, it's still quite likely to be fairly close to it's Target. I don't know though, I've always had fairly good luck with blast weapons.
tetrisphreak wrote:Who else isn't in love with the idea of the doomsday cannons? the ark can't move to fire the worthwhile blast, and at even at bs4, a blast-weapon isn't reliably going to hit what it shoots at. s9 ap1 large blast is certainly impressive, but I don't foresee it being super-reliable unless they change how blast weapons work in 6th ed.
The Triarch Walker causes the entire army to be Twin linked, at whatever it shoots at. The only thing about the Doomsday Cannons I don't like is the cost, but even if the Blast Scatters, it's still quite likely to be fairly close to it's Target. I don't know though, I've always had fairly good luck with blast weapons.
The Walker seems so fething cool that it's absolutely criminal that the dude isn't in the first wave of models, along with the night scythe.
Why we got new flayed ones over some of the stuff they've come up with is beyond me.
tetrisphreak wrote:Who else isn't in love with the idea of the doomsday cannons? the ark can't move to fire the worthwhile blast, and at even at bs4, a blast-weapon isn't reliably going to hit what it shoots at. s9 ap1 large blast is certainly impressive, but I don't foresee it being super-reliable unless they change how blast weapons work in 6th ed.
The Triarch Walker causes the entire army to be Twin linked, at whatever it shoots at. The only thing about the Doomsday Cannons I don't like is the cost, but even if the Blast Scatters, it's still quite likely to be fairly close to it's Target. I don't know though, I've always had fairly good luck with blast weapons.
The Walker seems so fething cool that it's absolutely criminal that the dude isn't in the first wave of models, along with the night scythe.
Why we got new flayed ones over some of the stuff they've come up with is beyond me.
Yeah, I'm hoping the second wave isn't to far away, I'd really like to add some Night Scythes/Doom Scythes and Walkers to my Army. Not to mention New Wraiths and Tomb Spyders.
Also, I think it's worth a bit more than a Vindicator. The Doomsday Ark has Side 13, Living Metal, is a skimmer, Has Two Flayer Arrays it can fire (Though not likely since it's sitting in the back) and it's Large blast is Ap 1, but with a 72' Range. The No Ordinance I think is so it can fire it's flayer arrays as well. I Still don't think it's quite worth 175 points, but for the moment it's finding a place in my lists. I just think the value of being able to fire that thing freely for two turns (With the Storm Lord, and Solar Pulses) is just too valuable to pass up, even at hat points cost.
I agree the walker sounds great, I'm hoping it's a wave-2 release because I think the need to have 1 or 2 in every army as a force-multiplier is substantial.
Still no info on what the Chronometron or the Timesplinter Cloak does? I know it's less than a week til release day but i'm itching to know what the time manipulator cryptek does for his unit.
Ostrakon wrote:The Walker seems so fething cool that it's absolutely criminal that the dude isn't in the first wave of models, along with the night scythe.
I'm expecting it to get screwed out of usefulness by the point cost. Just a hunch.
Still yet, using them to distract and hunt down long range support of the enemy I think could do well.
Tervigons and carnifexes, even, with the s5 ap2 and s5 melee, should be fearful of suicide-praetorians.
It's an expensive suicide unit. at 200 points for 5, you can get the Doomsday Ark for cheaper, and it can bombard enemies from turn 1.
You'd need at least a minimum of 2 turns (Closer to 3) to get into combat with an enemies long range support, and by that time they may have accomplished what they need to do.
EDIT
Or just shoot anything with it. It still negates FNP on other squads that have that. Just saying, it's one of the few AP2 weapons we have available on fast moving ground forces that can deepstrike...
We have a Supersonic transport, and several things with a ton of range. We also have a lot of AP1, as well. I just don't see any of the benefits of the Praetorians out weighting the negatives.
Ya, but the transports are gone in one lucky shot from a las cannon. The praetorians aren't. It will take more focused fire to down them down then it potentially would one of the vehicles (excluding the lith) Let me just ask you, if you had S5/T5 power weapon wielding JI bearing down on you and you knew they had S5 AP2 assault weapons, wouldn't you be worried about that a bit? Because you KNOW if you don't deal with them, they're going to get you. And if you do deal with them, then one of the other many things you didn't shoot will take you out. So they do have a role, you just have to remember that sometimes a troopers role is to just draw fire.
*Edit*
For reference, I'm not saying they should be a suicide squad, but they're a threat on the board that your opponent can't really afford to ignore, at least for long. I don't know man, I see the uses. Just imagine if single lightning claw terminators had jump packs, wouldn't you be worried? And yes, there is plenty of AP2 and AP1 in the army, but is more really a bad thing?
3x Doomsday / ghost arks (going to make 2x ghost arks, 1x doomsday ark)
2x boxes of praetorians/lychguard - not sure how to equip these yet ) (Any suggestions?!)
2x crypteks
1x codex
Get paid thursday so i'll pre order more - any thoughts/suggestions? Was thinking maybe 2x boxes of immortals and equipping them with tesla cannons since I already have 10x old immortals.
Here's what I currently have before this release
56x warriors
2x monoliths
10x flayed ones (the GOOD metal ones lol)
10x immortals
3x wraiths
3x heavy destroyers
10x destroyers
14x scarabs
1x c'tan (nightbringer)
I Put my order in for the Codex, Command Barge and 2 boxes of Deathmarks. I'm thinking hard about ordering a couple boxes of the Lychguard, just cause I love the look of them with the shields or get some Immortals that my army is lacking.
Right now I have no Immortals in my army, as I never bought any because the metal models cost was too high and I figured I would get plastic ones whenever they came out. However, I think I will make the two new boxes I got into Deathmarks because, I'm really crazy about the look of these models. I'll have too get some more cash saved up for the Immortals.
I have to agree with everyone that the new Flayed Ones are pretty bad. I was really disapointed to see that the didnt have the flesh on their heads like the old models, I liked how the old models really looked like they were wearing suits carved out of flesh. I think that the new models could be improved with a much better paint job then the ones currently pictured and maybe a little green stuff, however I'm not too impressed with the poses either.
Here is a pic of my old Flayed Ones that I painted up.
Still yet, using them to distract and hunt down long range support of the enemy I think could do well.
Tervigons and carnifexes, even, with the s5 ap2 and s5 melee, should be fearful of suicide-praetorians.
It's an expensive suicide unit. at 200 points for 5, you can get the Doomsday Ark for cheaper, and it can bombard enemies from turn 1.
You'd need at least a minimum of 2 turns (Closer to 3) to get into combat with an enemies long range support, and by that time they may have accomplished what they need to do.
EDIT
Or just shoot anything with it. It still negates FNP on other squads that have that. Just saying, it's one of the few AP2 weapons we have available on fast moving ground forces that can deepstrike...
We have a Supersonic transport, and several things with a ton of range. We also have a lot of AP1, as well. I just don't see any of the benefits of the Praetorians out weighting the negatives.
Ya, but the transports are gone in one lucky shot from a las cannon. The praetorians aren't. It will take more focused fire to down them down then it potentially would one of the vehicles (excluding the lith) Let me just ask you, if you had S5/T5 power weapon wielding JI bearing down on you and you knew they had S5 AP2 assault weapons, wouldn't you be worried about that a bit? Because you KNOW if you don't deal with them, they're going to get you. And if you do deal with them, then one of the other many things you didn't shoot will take you out. So they do have a role, you just have to remember that sometimes a troopers role is to just draw fire.
*Edit*
For reference, I'm not saying they should be a suicide squad, but they're a threat on the board that your opponent can't really afford to ignore, at least for long. I don't know man, I see the uses. Just imagine if single lightning claw terminators had jump packs, wouldn't you be worried? And yes, there is plenty of AP2 and AP1 in the army, but is more really a bad thing?
They remind me a lot of Sanguinary Guard, (And are the same points cost it seems as well) I Just think the I2 Kills them, and they have a somewhat limited amount of Targets they can choose from to effectively kill.. They really need to wipe out whatever they hit, before any type of power weapons can swing, or they are done. They are going at the same time as powerfists and the like if they assault in cover, and most things with power weapons are swinging before them. It's just they have so many weaknesses to me, it seems hard to get over. They lack an Invul, have no Grenades, and have Very low I. The combination of all that is just crippling to me.
Still yet, using them to distract and hunt down long range support of the enemy I think could do well.
Tervigons and carnifexes, even, with the s5 ap2 and s5 melee, should be fearful of suicide-praetorians.
It's an expensive suicide unit. at 200 points for 5, you can get the Doomsday Ark for cheaper, and it can bombard enemies from turn 1.
You'd need at least a minimum of 2 turns (Closer to 3) to get into combat with an enemies long range support, and by that time they may have accomplished what they need to do.
EDIT
Or just shoot anything with it. It still negates FNP on other squads that have that. Just saying, it's one of the few AP2 weapons we have available on fast moving ground forces that can deepstrike...
We have a Supersonic transport, and several things with a ton of range. We also have a lot of AP1, as well. I just don't see any of the benefits of the Praetorians out weighting the negatives.
Ya, but the transports are gone in one lucky shot from a las cannon. The praetorians aren't. It will take more focused fire to down them down then it potentially would one of the vehicles (excluding the lith) Let me just ask you, if you had S5/T5 power weapon wielding JI bearing down on you and you knew they had S5 AP2 assault weapons, wouldn't you be worried about that a bit? Because you KNOW if you don't deal with them, they're going to get you. And if you do deal with them, then one of the other many things you didn't shoot will take you out. So they do have a role, you just have to remember that sometimes a troopers role is to just draw fire.
*Edit*
For reference, I'm not saying they should be a suicide squad, but they're a threat on the board that your opponent can't really afford to ignore, at least for long. I don't know man, I see the uses. Just imagine if single lightning claw terminators had jump packs, wouldn't you be worried? And yes, there is plenty of AP2 and AP1 in the army, but is more really a bad thing?
They remind me a lot of Sanguinary Guard, (And are the same points cost it seems as well) I Just think the I2 Kills them, and they have a somewhat limited amount of Targets they can choose from to effectively kill.. They really need to wipe out whatever they hit, before any type of power weapons can swing, or they are done. They are going at the same time as powerfists and the like if they assault in cover, and most things with power weapons are swinging before them. It's just they have so many weaknesses to me, it seems hard to get over. They lack an Invul, have no Grenades, and have Very low I. The combination of all that is just crippling to me.
Well supposedly, they get a 3++ with the voidblades. According to the early rumors anyway.
Well supposedly, they get a 3++ with the voidblades. According to the early rumors anyway.
I think we would have heard something by now, if that were still the case. It looks like that was just an early mixup, about the Dispersion Shields for the Lycheguard.
Platuan4th wrote:Preordered the Book, Stormlord, Overlord, box of Immortals, and box of Lychguard from a local store with discounts.
Not sure whether to make the Immortals box as Deathmarks or Immortals, may have to grab some more boxes next payday.
Take the deathmark heads and arm/weapon bits and turn some of your spare warriors into deathmark snipers. Should be an easy conversion, and allows you to use the bigger torsos for the immortals.
Platuan4th wrote:Preordered the Book, Stormlord, Overlord, box of Immortals, and box of Lychguard from a local store with discounts.
Not sure whether to make the Immortals box as Deathmarks or Immortals, may have to grab some more boxes next payday.
Take the deathmark heads and arm/weapon bits and turn some of your spare warriors into deathmark snipers. Should be an easy conversion, and allows you to use the bigger torsos for the immortals.
I plan to use the Deathmark Heads for Crypteks on warrior bodies as well.
Alright, I need to share an opinion that I think is getting ignored in this tearing apart of one or two stat changes.
When I look at the new necrons, they remind me of something, honestly, they have a dash of warmachine in their soup. How can I say this? Because of the HQ and IC changes. We of course do not have the full codex yet, but just based on what has been said they seem to have devastating, game altering powers. Just like a warcaster or warlock from warmachine.
In warmachine your units are brutal, but it is how you use your warcaster/warlock to alter the battle that drastically changes the game.
Some of you ripping apart wraiths and CC are not considering a couple rounds of night fight and lightning blasts giving way to an unstoppable barrage when YOU choose before any CC has happened. Don't think about how great the CC will be toe to toe against other factions CC. Think about how CC will be against whatever is left of other factions CC by the time they get into combat.
That's really just one example. Other than that, Necron is a shooty army, those wanting a deathstar CC unit that you can spam and win and faceroll need not apply. If you desire to have your list creation take 30 seconds and be made up of three different units the GK are right over there....
Platuan4th wrote:Preordered the Book, Stormlord, Overlord, box of Immortals, and box of Lychguard from a local store with discounts.
Not sure whether to make the Immortals box as Deathmarks or Immortals, may have to grab some more boxes next payday.
Take the deathmark heads and arm/weapon bits and turn some of your spare warriors into deathmark snipers. Should be an easy conversion, and allows you to use the bigger torsos for the immortals.
That would require me to have extra warriors. The army I ended up with a few year ago only has 30.
Nightsbane wrote:Alright, I need to share an opinion that I think is getting ignored in this tearing apart of one or two stat changes.
When I look at the new necrons, they remind me of something, honestly, they have a dash of warmachine in their soup. How can I say this? Because of the HQ and IC changes. We of course do not have the full codex yet, but just based on what has been said they seem to have devastating, game altering powers. Just like a warcaster or warlock from warmachine.
In warmachine your units are brutal, but it is how you use your warcaster/warlock to alter the battle that drastically changes the game.
Some of you ripping apart wraiths and CC are not considering a couple rounds of night fight and lightning blasts giving way to an unstoppable barrage when YOU choose before any CC has happened. Don't think about how great the CC will be toe to toe against other factions CC. Think about how CC will be against whatever is left of other factions CC by the time they get into combat.
That's really just one example. Other than that, Necron is a shooty army, those wanting a deathstar CC unit that you can spam and win and faceroll need not apply. If you desire to have your list creation take 30 seconds and be made up of three different units the GK are right over there....
This is nothing new, the Necrons have functioned this way since 3rd edition, if anything, Warmachine/Cryx copied the Necrons when it comes down to it.
In regards to using extra warriors to make more lychguard/praetorians/deathmarks/immortals, I am not 100% but I think those models are quite clearly larger than the warriors themselves, I think it would be a difficult conversion to say the least.
That's really just one example. Other than that, Necron is a shooty army, those wanting a deathstar CC unit that you can spam and win and faceroll need not apply. If you desire to have your list creation take 30 seconds and be made up of three different units the GK are right over there....
Id call it more a hybrid or jack of all trades army. It doesnt have enough long range firepower to call it a shooty army, but has good short-mid range firepower. It has some tricks and has some cc, but its lacking in its cc somewhat i think due to the nerfs on:
flayed ones lost horrifying visage and had their initiative halved, gained 1 attack
Pariah substotutes (warscythe lychguards really) have been ridiculously nerfed - they have lost a point of initiative, lost ability to ignore inv saves and lost their inbuilt 24" S5 AP4 assault 2 ranged weapon, fearless, power to reduce enemy to LD7 and anti psyker powers in exchange for wbb, +2 strength and +1 attack at 4 points more!
The shield and blade lychguard are a lot better but still expensive for what they have (compared esp again to what pariahs had for their points)
praetorians with no invuln save and I2 are fragile for their points as well
The only good ccimo are wraiths, but these are in FA slot, all the elite cc units leave something (or a lot) to be desired.
This coupled with the nerf on being able to teleport from combat incase your shorter range weapons with low I get caught and thus destroyed hurts the army a lot.
Necrons as they stand currently are a bottom-tier, non-competitive codex. 3 mono, wraithwing builds according to DashofPepper are the bee's knees, but for the 95% of necron players winning tournaments just isn't in the cards with this codex.
These negative changes you're referring to have to be factored in with the army as a whole, not as isolated stat-nerfs. I can't wait to play some games with the new rules and units.
tetrisphreak wrote:I wouldn't refer to any changes as 'nerfs' yet.
Necrons as they stand currently are a bottom-tier, non-competitive codex. 3 mono, wraithwing builds according to DashofPepper are the bee's knees, but for the 95% of necron players winning tournaments just isn't in the cards with this codex.
These negative changes you're referring to have to be factored in with the army as a whole, not as isolated stat-nerfs. I can't wait to play some games with the new rules and units.
That and playing Monospam/Wraith wing takes about half a braincell to play.
tetrisphreak wrote: I can't wait to play some games with the new rules and units.
I got to play a few games with new rules today, at my gw. I used 20 immortals, destroyers and stormlord. But that was all I could use since I don't know rules for any other units.
Some of you ripping apart wraiths and CC are not considering a couple rounds of night fight and lightning blasts giving way to an unstoppable barrage when YOU choose before any CC has happened. Don't think about how great the CC will be toe to toe against other factions CC. Think about how CC will be against whatever is left of other factions CC by the time they get into combat.
That's really just one example. Other than that, Necron is a shooty army, those wanting a deathstar CC unit that you can spam and win and faceroll need not apply. If you desire to have your list creation take 30 seconds and be made up of three different units the GK are right over there....
I'd agree with this. The Necrons are going to be (and should be) a very different type of army (gasp!). It really benefits 40k to have codices that bring something different to the table. I also think that they should have some big meta shakeups. Plopping down 8+ AV13 vehicles is a tough nut to crack. Even things like 3 Psyfleman and 3 units of Long Fangs are averaging around 3 total damage results per turn. Glances won't be that devastating because of living metal. Add in the ability to achieve at least one turn of night fight and the Crons will have the ability to get into position and shoot away relatively unmolested by the st 8 spam of the day.
tetrisphreak wrote: I can't wait to play some games with the new rules and units.
I got to play a few games with new rules today, at my gw. I used 20 immortals, destroyers and stormlord. But that was all I could use since I don't know rules for any other units.
tetrisphreak wrote:I wouldn't refer to any changes as 'nerfs' yet.
Necrons as they stand currently are a bottom-tier, non-competitive codex. 3 mono, wraithwing builds according to DashofPepper are the bee's knees, but for the 95% of necron players winning tournaments just isn't in the cards with this codex.
These negative changes you're referring to have to be factored in with the army as a whole, not as isolated stat-nerfs. I can't wait to play some games with the new rules and units.
That and playing Monospam/Wraith wing takes about half a braincell to play.
\
Let's face it, playing Necrons thus far has never really been a, how to put it? Cerebral experience. The goodness of the 3E codex was condensed into a couple units and most games revolved around avoiding Phaseout.
In any case, it seems like we have a lot of new strategies to play around with this time around. VoD shenanigans with competent CC units, Night Fighting manipulation, various Cryptek loadouts, scarab rushes, interesting HQ abilities, etc.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
JGrand wrote:
Some of you ripping apart wraiths and CC are not considering a couple rounds of night fight and lightning blasts giving way to an unstoppable barrage when YOU choose before any CC has happened. Don't think about how great the CC will be toe to toe against other factions CC. Think about how CC will be against whatever is left of other factions CC by the time they get into combat.
That's really just one example. Other than that, Necron is a shooty army, those wanting a deathstar CC unit that you can spam and win and faceroll need not apply. If you desire to have your list creation take 30 seconds and be made up of three different units the GK are right over there....
I'd agree with this. The Necrons are going to be (and should be) a very different type of army (gasp!). It really benefits 40k to have codices that bring something different to the table. I also think that they should have some big meta shakeups. Plopping down 8+ AV13 vehicles is a tough nut to crack. Even things like 3 Psyfleman and 3 units of Long Fangs are averaging around 3 total damage results per turn. Glances won't be that devastating because of living metal. Add in the ability to achieve at least one turn of night fight and the Crons will have the ability to get into position and shoot away relatively unmolested by the st 8 spam of the day.
I'm waiting happily for what 2 turns of NF setup to get hordes of Immortals and ghost arks in position will end up looking like. Especially when/if the Rapidfire rules change.
No matter what army you're playing, you don't like it when your opponent belts out 80 shots of S5 AP4 rapidfire nonsense.
tetrisphreak wrote: I can't wait to play some games with the new rules and units.
I got to play a few games with new rules today, at my gw. I used 20 immortals, destroyers and stormlord. But that was all I could use since I don't know rules for any other units.
In regards to using extra warriors to make more lychguard/praetorians/deathmarks/immortals, I am not 100% but I think those models are quite clearly larger than the warriors themselves, I think it would be a difficult conversion to say the least.
Of course the actual models will be better options for those who have the money and I agree that lychguard/praetorians would not work on smaller warrior models. But I do think that using Immortals as Immortals and using the body of a warrior with a deathmarks own arms and head may actually be plausible.
Kanluwen wrote:With the Deathmarks, if you look at the sprue shot:
The torso looks like you just might be able to pull it off, provided you're willing to put a little elbow grease into the project.
I don't know kan... Im assuming the intention of using Necron Warrior to use up the extra Praetorian bits was to save money + use up the extra bits.
If by using Immortal kit ( equal value ) it defeats that purpose.
Kanluwen wrote:With the Deathmarks, if you look at the sprue shot:
The torso looks like you just might be able to pull it off, provided you're willing to put a little elbow grease into the project.
I don't know kan... Im assuming the intention of using Necron Warrior to use up the extra Praetorian bits was to save money + use up the extra bits.
If by using Immortal kit ( equal value ) it defeats that purpose.
Not praetorian or lychguard. only using the spare parts of deathmarks with warriors to save money + use up the extra bits.
I welcome the new unit choices, but not so huge on the fluff. Having played necrons for a bit, they are terribly boring to assemble and paint, what with all the droves of troops being completely identical. There's only so much you can do with metal paints, and I hate how they look when people go for that ceramic style. They were also very very linear in their playstyle. At least now we can shake things up a bit and throw a couple of curve balls each game. At least my old army means I won't be painting any more freaking warriors (or assembling monoliths, god was that a chore) for a while
A box of 12 warrior models (smaller legs & torsos) is $35. 5 immortals/deathmarks is $33. I only have 39 warriors, so i can use the extra leftovers after the conversions. I'm getting 3 boxes of immortals/deathmarks anyhow, and I will be using them primarily to buff up my paltry 10 immortals i already own. (with blasters...So i will probably build 15 tesla immortals). Then i can convert up to 12 deathmarks for less than half the price per model if i buy a box of warriors (plus i'll get 4 scarab swarms that i need as well). The entire endeavor is a win-win.
Also the warriors are known in the previous codex for having strong enough metal for a 3+ save, so that's not unheard of...and also i see deathmarks as the necron versions of 'scouts' for their army, so a more lithe build (with the big ass gun and cyclopean head) should look just fine.
I think it was mentioned somewhere, and i dont know by who, I also dont want to read mega amounts of pages to find it. But can someone tell me if they know, what the base point cost of a ctan shard is.
Kanluwen wrote:With the Deathmarks, if you look at the sprue shot:
The torso looks like you just might be able to pull it off, provided you're willing to put a little elbow grease into the project.
I don't know kan... Im assuming the intention of using Necron Warrior to use up the extra Praetorian bits was to save money + use up the extra bits.
If by using Immortal kit ( equal value ) it defeats that purpose.
Not praetorian or lychguard. only using the spare parts of deathmarks with warriors to save money + use up the extra bits.
Ah ok, then the bottom half applies xD
I was thinking, maybe model them to be more slouched, to represent them encumbered
chaos0xomega wrote:200 points plus cost of two upgrades. Upgrades range from 10 points to 50 points.
I heard 190 but hey, that's ballpark.
After upgrades I estimate they'll be between 220 and 250 points, usually.
Oh yeah. so judging off stat line, in larger games, will they be of any use, or just become sniper target. actually now that they are T7 anything S4 can bring them down. Ive allways liked ctan but they are so expensive. So the question there is, at 220 - 250 points, in larger 2000pt games, are they worth the points. (Judging off what you know atm)
Well, if you're taking a Nightcron list, your C'tan won't have much trouble during the first part of the game dodging sniper bullets, so no worries there. They also have the option to take an ability that allows it to regenerate wounds by inflicting wounds on others, etc. Just play it conservatively, and like the current Necrons, a turn spent shooting your C'tan is a turn not spent shooting at the rest of your army.
This may have been mentioned earlier but the triarch stalkers gun can be fired as a template or as assault 2 heavy 2??
1 per FOC slot chosen. Has a variable heat ray (which can be upgraded to a couple of other weapons) that can either be fired as a template or as an Assault 2 S8 24" Heavy2 Melta weapon.
chaos0xomega wrote:Well, if you're taking a Nightcron list, your C'tan won't have much trouble during the first part of the game dodging sniper bullets, so no worries there. They also have the option to take an ability that allows it to regenerate wounds by inflicting wounds on others, etc. Just play it conservatively, and like the current Necrons, a turn spent shooting your C'tan is a turn not spent shooting at the rest of your army.
Are you sure you talking about Necrons? As a Tyranid player, this surely sounds awfully familiar.
chaos0xomega wrote:Well, if you're taking a Nightcron list, your C'tan won't have much trouble during the first part of the game dodging sniper bullets, so no worries there. They also have the option to take an ability that allows it to regenerate wounds by inflicting wounds on others, etc. Just play it conservatively, and like the current Necrons, a turn spent shooting your C'tan is a turn not spent shooting at the rest of your army.
Are you sure you talking about Necrons? As a Tyranid player, this surely sounds awfully familiar.
It does, except our super SC (Swarmlord) can't make the field night fighting for the first few turns of the game (Stormlord). Gosh I detect a naming scheme here...
Trygons and carnifexes pursuing the enemy under the cover of darkness would be a great ability indeed. Instead we get venomthropes for a 5+ cover save. Blech.
(I know this is From page 127, the argument about Necrons and the inevitable sweeping advance.)
Give warriors a Ghost Ark and they get the Ever Living Trait. Even if they get swept they get Repair Protocals, (RP).
Protect your Ghost Arks, use the warriors/combats for screens, or Night Fight (stormlord) w/ Solar Pulses.
Your warriors will put up a hell of a fight and if they lose to SA, rest assured your Ghost Ark will still allow them to rise again!
Imo Warrios + Ghost Ark + Rez Orb= Stupid Steadfast Army.
4+ armor with a 4++ Inv and if they die you still can regain 1d3 warriors backs through the Ark! I am wondering if a Scarab/Tomb Spyder combo can do similar.
Lokas wrote:Is there any word on whether or not the quantum shielding will ignore the lance rule?
God I wish it did.
The codex WD entries make no specific mention of lance weapons. They say:
WD #382 wrote: QUANTUM SHIELDING: Until a vehicle suffers a penetrating hit, it counts all Armour Values on its front and side facings as being 2 points higher. Once a penetrating hit has been scored it can no longer use the quantum shielding.
So depending on which rule takes precedence, or unless the codex adds a stipulation for lance weaponry towards QS, it looks like our boats will count as AV12 vs our Eldar and DE opponents. <--- that makes sense considering the ages-old feud between the races, though. Eldar and Necrons are sworn enemies ever since the Old Ones were around.
It would be a pretty hard counter to DE and Eldar if it did nullify Lance. Considering most of our AT is strength 8, only 6's would penetrate. With how Necrons will be able to field loads of vehicles now (although I suspect to a lesser extent than razor spam or skimmer spam) It would be real rough on a DE army to combat a mechanized Necron army. Eldar might have an easier time with Fire Dragons, but ah well.
Pure conjecture at this point. I was just curious.
Tyrs13 wrote:(I know this is From page 127, the argument about Necrons and the inevitable sweeping advance.)
Give warriors a Ghost Ark and they get the Ever Living Trait. Even if they get swept they get Repair Protocals, (RP).
Protect your Ghost Arks, use the warriors/combats for screens, or Night Fight (stormlord) w/ Solar Pulses. Your warriors will put up a hell of a fight and if they lose to SA, rest assured your Ghost Ark will still allow them to rise again!
Imo Warrios + Ghost Ark + Rez Orb= Stupid Steadfast Army. 4+ armor with a 4++ Inv and if they die you still can regain 1d3 warriors backs through the Ark! I am wondering if a Scarab/Tomb Spyder combo can do similar.
So hey, let's imagine for a moment you have a lord with a rez orb in a squad of warriors (ever-living or not). Let's still imagine that through wound saturation the lord is forced to be allocated a save, which he fails. The model is removed and the squad is given a 'ressurection token' so that it may make it's RP at the end of phase. Now let's further imagine that during said wound grouping, a couple rank-and-file warriors also failed their armor saves...two more res tokens added to the squad, as two more models were removed. Now it's the end of the phase, and only one RP roll succeeds. Which model are you allowed to return to the squad? The Lord, or just a grunt? Or must you specify which models you're rolling for (a la the old WBB) even though you're rolling for tokens instead of models?
Discuss.
Edit- I realize that without codex in hand this argument will be pointless. However I hope it IS addressed in the final publication.
Lokas wrote:Is there any word on whether or not the quantum shielding will ignore the lance rule?
God I wish it did.
The codex WD entries make no specific mention of lance weapons. They say:
WD #382 wrote: QUANTUM SHIELDING: Until a vehicle suffers a penetrating hit, it counts all Armour Values on its front and side facings as being 2 points higher. Once a penetrating hit has been scored it can no longer use the quantum shielding.
So depending on which rule takes precedence, or unless the codex adds a stipulation for lance weaponry towards QS, it looks like our boats will count as AV12 vs our Eldar and DE opponents. <--- that makes sense considering the ages-old feud between the races, though. Eldar and Necrons are sworn enemies ever since the Old Ones were around.
So a monolith with quantum shielding would be at AV16 or is 14 the highest AV possible
Kevin949 wrote:
The "heavy" listing has an asterisk next to it as well, leading me to believe there is more to that rule than just the "can only move 6 inches" bit. Like, perhaps, more bonuses to ramming?
Nah, that's exactly how its listed in the codex (Heavy with an asterisk) because 'Heavy' is not an existing type of vehicle so the asterisk tells you to go look at what Heavy means (which is in the Monolith's rules) and that's that 'Heavy' means the vehicle can't move faster than combat speed but counts as stationary when firing.
Kevin949 wrote:So, I just noticed that all the lords are now 1 wound along with the cryptek...well that's pretty crappy.
Also, I saw this little discrepancy....if this is the case, I'll never not take a destroyer lord.
I can almost guarantee that's a typo on the web team's part. Destroyer Lords have 3 Wounds just like Overlords.
Each roll is done separately, one being for the IC and the others being for the squad. If your Lord fails he fails and is dead.
Never will this situation arise, but lets imagine for a moment it did. Depending on how many enemies are left standing it could me the lord or the warriors.
With an Ark there you can get the most wounds back on the Warriors. They will lack any cool upgrades.
The lord can have a variety of cool upgrades but his stats arent any better then the warriors. If another unit was around you can up him and join that unit.
Overall, i am guessing you want to hear the Lord will be picked. He will be the better choice most often.
Cheaper than land raiders
Let's celebrate it with a new fluff.
