I still think a big question is whether whole squads of lychguard half to switch weapons, or if it is some kind of mix. I really feel like that will be deciding factor in making a "decent unit" a pretty powerful one.
I don't won't a full squad of warscythes just to get obliterated at the first plasma cannon that comes my way.
I don't want a full squad of 4++ just to only penetrate vehicles on 6 in assault.
So since some of the people across the pond (Poland? i think) got their WD a few days early, perhaps we will see some people there getting their codices early as well and we'll hear from them in the coming mid-week.
The Metal Tide wrote:This may have been mentioned earlier but the triarch stalkers gun can be fired as a template or as assault 2 heavy 2??
1 per FOC slot chosen. Has a variable heat ray (which can be upgraded to a couple of other weapons) that can either be fired as a template or as an Assault 2 S8 24" Heavy2 Melta weapon.
What does that mean
What exactly is confusing you? The weapon can be fired two different ways exactly like a missile launcher can fire frag or krak missiles, for example.
tetrisphreak wrote:(I know this is From page 127, the argument about Necrons and the inevitable sweeping advance.)
Give warriors a Ghost Ark and they get the Ever Living Trait. Even if they get swept they get Repair Protocals, (RP).
Where did you get the information that a Ghost Ark provides 'ever-living' because that cannot be. Once you read the rules text for 'Ever-Living' you would realize that it would be pointless to give it to a squad...it is written specifically for character models!
tetrisphreak wrote:So hey, let's imagine for a moment you have a lord with a rez orb in a squad of warriors (ever-living or not). Let's still imagine that through wound saturation the lord is forced to be allocated a save, which he fails. The model is removed and the squad is given a 'ressurection token' so that it may make it's RP at the end of phase. Now let's further imagine that during said wound grouping, a couple rank-and-file warriors also failed their armor saves...two more res tokens added to the squad, as two more models were removed. Now it's the end of the phase, and only one RP roll succeeds. Which model are you allowed to return to the squad? The Lord, or just a grunt? Or must you specify which models you're rolling for (a la the old WBB) even though you're rolling for tokens instead of models?
Discuss.
Edit- I realize that without codex in hand this argument will be pointless. However I hope it IS addressed in the final publication.
The way its written, you get to pick the models you want to return to the unit...so for example if you had a Destroyer, Tomb Spyder or Wraith unit that contains differently armed models, you would definitely get to choose which type of model you want back. However, with the 'ever-living' rule (which even basic Lords & Crypteks have), it pretty much implies that you're making a Reanimation Protocol roll for them specifically.
So its certainly a bit unclear when it comes to 'Ever-living' models but my guess is that people likely people will end up playing that 'ever-living' models have to roll their RP roll separately from the rest of the unit.
Kevin949 wrote:So, I just noticed that all the lords are now 1 wound along with the cryptek...well that's pretty crappy.
Also, I saw this little discrepancy....if this is the case, I'll never not take a destroyer lord.
I can almost guarantee that's a typo on the web team's part. Destroyer Lords have 3 Wounds just like Overlords.
I thought a destroyer lord was an overlord with destroyer body though rather than a lord?
• Necron Overlord: Generic DIY Necron Overlord (guy who rules a Tomb World) with plenty of options. Can ride on a Catacomb Command Barge (which is a one man transport) as can all the named 'Lords' above, but not those that are Crypteks in their fluff (Illuminor Szeras & Orikan the Diviner).
• Destroyer Lord: Basically the same as an Overlord but with Preferred Eenemy against everything (Destroyers now hate everybody). Has a few less wargear options as well, but can still take a Rez Orb (for example).
Can you tell me if scarabs can go in a transport, and if so which one. Also what special rules do the have, Im mainly talking about Universal special rules, specifically scout. I would love to see my scarabs attack a tank using outflank.
I don't think beasts are allowed to embark in vehicles. I'd have to check the BRB on that one. (BTW scarabs are listed as type: beasts according to all rumors)
zacharia wrote:
I thought a destroyer lord was an overlord with destroyer body though rather than a lord?
• Necron Overlord: Generic DIY Necron Overlord (guy who rules a Tomb World) with plenty of options. Can ride on a Catacomb Command Barge (which is a one man transport) as can all the named 'Lords' above, but not those that are Crypteks in their fluff (Illuminor Szeras & Orikan the Diviner).
• Destroyer Lord: Basically the same as an Overlord but with Preferred Eenemy against everything (Destroyers now hate everybody). Has a few less wargear options as well, but can still take a Rez Orb (for example).
It is. That was my point. The Destroyer Lord statline on GW's site were(?) apparently saying 1 Wound, but Destroyer Lords have 3 Wounds. And looking on GW's site now, Destroyer Lords do say that they are 3W.
And FYI, there is no option for lesser Lords to take Destroyer bodies (Destroyer body is not an upgrade anywhere).
The Metal Tide wrote:Hey Yak, or anyone who knows.
Can you tell me if scarabs can go in a transport, and if so which one. Also what special rules do the have, Im mainly talking about Universal special rules, specifically scout. I would love to see my scarabs attack a tank using outflank.
Basic rules for transports only allow infantry.
The Night Scythe has special rules allowing Jump Infantry & Jetbike models to be transported, but a Scarab swarm is neither (its a beast).
So no, Scarabs can't embark on vehicles, although they could be teleported by a Monolith's portal.
zacharia wrote:
I thought a destroyer lord was an overlord with destroyer body though rather than a lord?
• Necron Overlord: Generic DIY Necron Overlord (guy who rules a Tomb World) with plenty of options. Can ride on a Catacomb Command Barge (which is a one man transport) as can all the named 'Lords' above, but not those that are Crypteks in their fluff (Illuminor Szeras & Orikan the Diviner).
• Destroyer Lord: Basically the same as an Overlord but with Preferred Eenemy against everything (Destroyers now hate everybody). Has a few less wargear options as well, but can still take a Rez Orb (for example).
It is. That was my point. The Destroyer Lord statline on GW's site were(?) apparently saying 1 Wound, but Destroyer Lords have 3 Wounds. And looking on GW's site now, Destroyer Lords do say that they are 3W.
Since you posted about destroyer lords having 3 wounds as evidence normal lords with 1 wound were a misprint it made it sound like you were saying that was the case since they were both the same (lords and destroyer lords)
Kevin949 wrote:
So, I just noticed that all the lords are now 1 wound along with the cryptek...well that's pretty crappy.
yakface wrote:
I can almost guarantee that's a typo on the web team's part. Destroyer Lords have 3 Wounds just like Overlords.
Considering I already have a C'tan, two lords (one is being bumped up to Overlord), and 3 Pariahs. I bought the Codex, 2 squads of Immortals, and The Ghost/Doomsday Ark with which I plan to also convert 10 Wraiths out of. Think I'll get Lyche Guard later, does 2 squads sound good?
wuestenfux wrote:Well, the new Necrons might be good at shooting but you'll hardly win by shooting alone. I'm skeptical if Necrons will be a really good army - top tier.
You are not the only one that is skeptical. It comes down to the entire game mechanics of the codex and I do not see any reason to take my old skool necrons out from the display case for competitive play.
Anyone else thinking 2 Doomsday Arcs and a squad of spyders sounds like a sure thing as far as heavies...? The buffs the spyders give (especially against psykers) seems to be a sure thing with a meta flooded with GK. Plus with Scarabs being sooooo sick... I think 2 full scarab squads supported by a wraith squad sounds sweet.
Not quite sure about Immortals tho... you can get sooooo many more warriors for the cost!
Zid wrote:Anyone else thinking 2 Doomsday Arcs and a squad of spyders sounds like a sure thing as far as heavies...?
No arguement about spyders, they are sounding like a must have unit. For the Arks however, I wouldn't be happy to bet soo many points on a pair of pie plates, I think a single ark could be useful, but 2 would struggle to find really useful targets each turn, namely infantry that have been forced out of their transports by your other weapons.
The Monoliths are actually sounding like a very valuable utility to me at this stage, I don't think they belong on the scrap pile to be replaced by Arks just yet. Monoliths should sit slightly lower on the threat scale with all these new Necron units on the board, and it sounds like they are able to use the template attack as well as the portal each turn, anyone able to confirm this at all?
I should really just go dark and wait for the codex itself, but I've been waiting a while for this after being beaten soo badly with my Necrons every few months I try them, just to return them to the cupboard in shame where I cannot see them
shadzinator wrote:Also the WD says that the shield Lychguard are 5 points more expensive, which is 45 points. So our TH/SS terminator is actually more expensive than the marine one, with worse saves.
Well to be fair they are S5 and T5 and striking at initiative so before the Thunder Hammers get to smack em back. If you take Nemesor Zahndrekh and give them furious charge for that turn they are hitting at the same time as Ork Nobs and wounding most things on 2 or 3, pretty damned useful in my eyes, not to mention slipping whip coil Wraiths or Tomb Spyders into the combat as well so you go first against some of the models, though I admit getting them in there also won't be so easy.
So ... are necrons going to be effective in CC? I saw that wraiths and flayed ones are I2 and I fear for their ability to krump things. Also the Ctan being I2 is just kind of weird. It's supposed to be like a greater demon ... of glue I guess.
C'tan are I4. Not overly phenomenal but with an invulnerable save and high toughness should make short work of most units in CC (aside from dedicated CC units). I am interested in the gaze of death, as it relies on a blast template being placed around the c'tan's base. If it can be used even while in CC it should make for a nice buff vs hordes when using the shards of power.
Being immune to T4 and ignoring invulnerable saves really made the C'tan for me, now I think they are going to have to be played too conservatively to reliably make back their cost, there are other options which could be doing more damage more often now I think. I own the deceiver model, so I'm sure he will find his way into apocalypse sized games, but I can't see a spot for one in my 1850 lists.
aboytervigon wrote:Do you have to have a full squad of warsythes for Lychguard or can you add some shields in?
I've said multiple times already now, you can only upgrade the weapons/wargear for full units except for Royal Courts, Wraiths, Tomb Spyders & Destroyers.
----
A few more insights on the royal Court:
Basic (lesser) Lords come standard with Staff of Light but can upgrade it to (for a number points):
• Warscythe • Gauntlet of Fire • Hyperphase Sword • Voidblade
And they can take any of the following gear (for a number of points):
Harbinger of Destruction • Weapon: Eldritch Lance (well covered by now) • Potential Wargear: Gaze of Flame (Assault/Defensive Grenades for the unit) & Solar Pulse (well covered by now).
Harbinger of Eternity • Weapon: Aeonstave (a regular CC weapon except: Any model that suffers an unsaved wound from it loses 'fleet' if it has it and reduces its WS, BS, I, & A to '1' for the rest of the game). • Potential Wargear: Chronometron (The bearer, or his unit, can re-roll a single D6 each phase) & Timesplinter Cloak (3++ save).
Harbinger of Transmogrification • Weapon: Termorstave (36", S4, AP-, Assault 1, Blast weapon that causes an enemy unit hit by it to count as moving in difficult terrain in their next movement phase). • Potential Wargear: Seismic Crumble (A single enemy unit picked at the start of the enemy's assault phase has its assault move reduced by D3" if attempting to assault the Cryptek's unit) & Harp of Dissonance (Unlimited Range, S6, AP-, Assault 1, Entropic).
Harbinger of the Storm • Weapon: Voltaic Staff (12", S5, AP-, Assault 4 weapon that hits vehicles like Haywire Grenades). • Potential Wargear: Lightning Field (Enemy units assaulting the Cryptek's unit immediately suffer D6, S8, AP5 hits) & Ether Crystal (Any units arriving by Deep Strike within 6" of the Cryptek D6, S8, AP5 hits. If there is more than one Ether Crystal within range then you just increase the number by 1...so a total of D6+1 hits).
Harbinger of Despair • Weapon: Abyssal Staff (Template, S8, AP1, Assault 1, roll against target's Ld instead of Toughness, does not affect vehicles). • Potential Wargear: Nightmare Shroud (Each Necron shooting phase, pick an enemy unit within 18" and force them to take a morale test) & Veil of Darkness (Same as before but cannot be used to pull the unit out of combat).
Very excellent info, Yakface. Thanks, I've been dying to know about the customizable royal court and their options.
I really like the idea of the chronometron in a squad, twin-linking a single weapon isn't much, but getting a re-rolled armor save or RP during the enemy's turn could really be good. Stick him with a squad of heavy destroyers and that will really increase their damage output, don't you agree?
How do you suggest representing the different wargear amongst crypteks? All the finecast blister comes with is a little orb with tentacles coming out of it....
tetrisphreak wrote:
How do you suggest representing the different wargear amongst crypteks? All the finecast blister comes with is a little orb with tentacles coming out of it....
GW calls that single Cryptek model as a Cryptek with a Staff of Light, so I think that is the basic Cryptek model essentially.
I'm sure they'd love to come out with a variety of upgrade packs for each different Cryptek sub-sect, but that's obviously a while off (if ever).
With that said, you could probably get away with just painting them radically different...for example, the Harbinger of Transmogrification could be painted in 'browns' to represent his mastery of the earth, 'Despair' could be in blacks, 'Storm' could have lightning bolts painted on it, 'Eternity'...I dunno, purple? 'Destruction' could be reds or oranges, etc.
Of course, you'd still probably need/want to put SOMETHING on the models that have the actual wargear upgrades too...but some of them like a 'Lightning Field' or 'Veil of Darkness' aren't described as being anything really besides an actual effect, so I think you'd basically just do anything you could think of to separate them from another Cryptek model.
Personally I think I'd try to use Warrior models and modify them to hold converted Lychguard or Praetorian weapons and probably try to green stuff a cloak onto them to make totally custom Cryptek models.
But really, your guess is as good as mine for what to do about Crypteks.
haroon wrote:Does anything in the codex, a SC, or tomb spyders or something allow you to repair Quantum Shielding?
Nope.
Literally at this point 95% of the special rules for the codex have now been posted. So you don't need to ask 'is there X' in the codex, as if it were, I definitely would have posted it by now.
Someone else had asked how the Tomb Spyders anti-psychic abilities work, but I wanted to remind you that I posted exactly how they work in the first page summary.
I keep reading about people referring to Pariahs as being Nerf'd, and I think most people are overlooking a major point here: Pariahs were an expensive unit that only existed in an army that suffered from the Phase Out rule, of which the Pariahs did not contribute towards. That was the true cost of the Pariahs: the lack of the "Necron" special ability. Additionally, that means they were as slow as glaciers, because they couldn't be teleported through the Monolith or with Veil of Darkness. The lack of speed was the most common complaint I ever heard about them. Now, compare them to the Praetorians, that move as JI and can be teleported. Yes, they're still expensive, and lack most of the punch of Pariahs, but if you can to compare the two units properly, you have to adjust for inflation, so to speak. That is, you would have to adjust what a Pariah would cost without Phase Out to decrease the actual points cost. And if that were the case, then each Pariah would likely be so much more expensive that there would be no complaints of them having been Nerf'd.
Also: if a Monolith doesn't suffer from Deep Strike Mishap as the Matt Ward description on the GW site appears to suggest, then you can now DS the Monolith onto an enemy objective, and have Praetorians pour out of the Monolith door. And personally, I think that sounds hilarious.
yakface wrote:Someone else had asked how the Tomb Spyders anti-psychic abilities work, but I wanted to remind you that I posted exactly how they work in the first page summary.
Speaking of this, does anyone else think 3" is a little bit shy of being useful? Maybe if you were running a single Spyder as a troop specific shield ( they are too slow to keep up with Wraiths or Veil/Monolith supported elites) otherwise this proximity doesn't really let them go off and do their own thing, as they must operate as a squad and follow coherency rules now, so it would be very limiting for them.
I still certainly think Tomb Spyder squads will have their place in many Necron armies, but not as a reliable form of psyker defence, I just don't see it working out without hindering your positioning and movement options too much to be worth it.
IRT azazel the cat;
If the Monolith doesn't suffer DS mishaps, then my previous post about it still being a great tool for your army has been cemented in place and my lists will have to include one.
Mods - is this really a rumours thread any more? It looks more like a lot of discussion about the army list and rules (which, in true internet fashion, haven't been released yet).
On a side note in response to the Tomb Spyder: They pretty much are Arks for Scarab swarms imo.
Attach a Spyder to them or near them watch as he heals them and makes them better.
Your scarabs get assaulted, great here is a MC here to rip you a new one.
We lowered this Land Raiders armor only to 12 ... No Problem we have a Monstrous creature there to crack it open.
Tailgunner wrote:Mods - is this really a rumours thread any more? It looks more like a lot of discussion about the army list and rules (which, in true internet fashion, haven't been released yet).
Until the Codex is out on the 5th of Nov, half the stuff we are talking about is still rumour, the WD only confirmed a decent percentage but not all of what we have heard, also it showed that the rumours are slightly outdated and have been tweaked a little since.
I've decided since it's soo close, I'm going to bow out and just bite my tongue for the next 6 days until I have my hands on the Codex
The Necrons have been blessed with the ability of multiple choices, I'm happy with that at the end of the day!
I saw something about that tactician Overlord allowing a unit to enter play in the same way as Deathmarks.
Could that be the way to use Praetorians?
Keep them in reserve. The opponent brings in some reserves. The Praetorians teleport in in response. On your turn, they fly, shoot, and assault. It's not quite Vanguard Vets, as they'll get a little shooting on you, but they shouldn't be prepared for it so it won't be quite ideal for them, but it seems like it could be decent for getting your DSing CC unit into combat pretty close to the turn they show up.
.... is it just me or are the necrons an inversion of the usual attempts by GW to make 40k look LESS like their WHF equivalents? Because these new Necrons look MORE like Tomb Kings than before...
Dave-c wrote:The one thing that drives me insane is the complete lack of factual information on the units in the codex and allowing preorders based on this.
I WILL NOT ORDER $HAT WITHOUT READING THE CODEX, EVER!!!!
There is absolutley no reason to keep stores from having copies so people can plan their armies and determine what they want to preorder!!!!!!!!!!!!
NONSENSE I SAY!!!
GW does not approve of your skepticism of units' propitiousness. ALL units will be game changing. Your lack of faith on this matter is disturbing.
Tailgunner wrote:Mods - is this really a rumours thread any more? It looks more like a lot of discussion about the army list and rules (which, in true internet fashion, haven't been released yet).
Discussion about army list and rules prior to having confirmation of army list and rules = rumours thread.
Dave-c wrote:The one thing that drives me insane is the complete lack of factual information on the units in the codex and allowing preorders based on this.
I WILL NOT ORDER $HAT WITHOUT READING THE CODEX, EVER!!!!
There is absolutley no reason to keep stores from having copies so people can plan their armies and determine what they want to preorder!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tailgunner wrote:Mods - is this really a rumours thread any more? It looks more like a lot of discussion about the army list and rules (which, in true internet fashion, haven't been released yet).
Discussion about army list and rules prior to having confirmation of army list and rules = rumours thread.
Dave-c wrote:The one thing that drives me insane is the complete lack of factual information on the units in the codex and allowing preorders based on this.
I WILL NOT ORDER $HAT WITHOUT READING THE CODEX, EVER!!!!
There is absolutley no reason to keep stores from having copies so people can plan their armies and determine what they want to preorder!!!!!!!!!!!!
NONSENSE I SAY!!!
I agree with you. Here is my preorder list:
1x Necron Codex
That is all.
THIS
This is exactly what i mean, i see the preorders flopping like a fish out of water. THERE NEEDS TO BE A PREORDER CODEX COPY IN THE STORES!!! I cannot order something without knowing how my army will all fit together. It is nonsensical for me to order blindly!
Just as above, my preorder will consist of 1x Necron Codex, nothing more, nothing less. Way to go get those sales GW.
Tailgunner wrote:Mods - is this really a rumours thread any more? It looks more like a lot of discussion about the army list and rules (which, in true internet fashion, haven't been released yet).
Discussion about army list and rules prior to having confirmation of army list and rules = rumours thread.
Dave-c wrote:The one thing that drives me insane is the complete lack of factual information on the units in the codex and allowing preorders based on this.
I WILL NOT ORDER $HAT WITHOUT READING THE CODEX, EVER!!!!
There is absolutley no reason to keep stores from having copies so people can plan their armies and determine what they want to preorder!!!!!!!!!!!!
NONSENSE I SAY!!!
I agree with you. Here is my preorder list:
1x Necron Codex
That is all.
THIS
This is exactly what i mean, i see the preorders flopping like a fish out of water. THERE NEEDS TO BE A PREORDER CODEX COPY IN THE STORES!!! I cannot order something without knowing how my army will all fit together. It is nonsensical for me to order blindly!
Just as above, my preorder will consist of 1x Necron Codex, nothing more, nothing less. Way to go get those sales GW.
I too plan to preorder only the codex. Then i shall work out an army list to fit my style of play. Only then will i buy units.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sasori wrote:While I disagreed with Azazel for most of the thread, I agree that the only thing I will buy outright is the codex.
However, I do feel there are some safe bets, such as the Stormlord, and at least one box of Lycheguard, and one box of immortals.
I agree with you there. It is probably a safe bet to buy a box of lychguard and a box of immortals, but i wont. I disagree with you on the aspect of the stormlord. I would not preorder him until i know exactly what his rules are and have read them word for word. But thats just me, I also plan to use Nemesor Zahndrekh & his loyal bodyguard Vargard Obryon for my HQ choice.
tetrisphreak wrote:Trygons and carnifexes pursuing the enemy under the cover of darkness would be a great ability indeed. Instead we get venomthropes for a 5+ cover save. Blech.
It wouldn't be so bad if venomthropes were able to break away and be added to other broods like Cryteks and Wolf Guard...but as they stand now, they are easy kill points.
Personally I love how everything is having the 2 different squad/vehicle options. Regardless of what I want to build, Is should have a lot of leftover bitz, perfect for conversions and fun.
yakface wrote:Of course, you'd still probably need/want to put SOMETHING on the models that have the actual wargear upgrades too...but some of them like a 'Lightning Field' or 'Veil of Darkness' aren't described as being anything really besides an actual effect, so I think you'd basically just do anything you could think of to separate them from another Cryptek model.
For veil of darkness, the long cloaks (like th eone turning into bats) from the Vampire Counts comes to mind.
I disagree with having to pay $88 for a vehicle that can be used as either a HS or a transport.
I really wish they had split the sprues, and charged a little less.
Also, full squad of immortals costs $110. That is quite a bit of money, might explain why when I went past Chermside GW on games night, there were like 3 people in there.
I feel sorry for anyone who didn't own stuff already, I would hate to have to build an army from scratch, it would be close to $900 for a half decent 1500pt army.
Sasori wrote:While I disagreed with Azazel for most of the thread, I agree that the only thing I will buy outright is the codex.
However, I do feel there are some safe bets, such as the Stormlord, and at least one box of Lycheguard, and one box of immortals.
I disagree. A lot of the models look beautiful and I can't wait to paint them and have fun playing with them in games with my friends. BUt mean if you're a super-competitive gamer and only care about what models will be the best on the on the battlefield, than in my opinion, you're just a band wagoner, wholly supporting the theory of codex creep.
Needless to say, my preorder list is quite large. Fortunately, my FLGS already had my preorders up.
Personally I love how everything is having the 2 different squad/vehicle options. Regardless of what I want to build, Is should have a lot of leftover bitz, perfect for conversions and fun.
Excuse me, but I've been playing Necrons since 2006, so I'm hardly a band wagoner. Also, if you didn't notice I play Tyranids, and Eldar which are hardly the top of the heap right now in terms of Codex Creep.
I don't know what your problem is, with people wanting to plan out what they buy instead of being stuck with some units that may be completely useless on the table. If you want to buy some models just to paint up, and play fluffy, then that's fine. I'm not going to criticize your method of enjoying the game. On the flip side, you have no right to criticize how anyone else chooses to enjoy the game either.
Ah they got outdated and broken, and revamped to just be flashy and extremely broken. I hate saying this though the models do look awesome. But having to wipe a whole squad just to stop the RP rolls? (At least that's my understanding, is instead of +4 and gone (WBB)...it's +5 every turn until the whole unit is dead?) And they shoulda kept Phase Out keeps them honest and even on the table.
Sasori wrote:While I disagreed with Azazel for most of the thread, I agree that the only thing I will buy outright is the codex.
However, I do feel there are some safe bets, such as the Stormlord, and at least one box of Lycheguard, and one box of immortals.
I disagree. A lot of the models look beautiful and I can't wait to paint them and have fun playing with them in games with my friends. BUt mean if you're a super-competitive gamer and only care about what models will be the best on the on the battlefield, than in my opinion, you're just a band wagoner, wholly supporting the theory of codex creep.
Needless to say, my preorder list is quite large. Fortunately, my FLGS already had my preorders up.
Personally I love how everything is having the 2 different squad/vehicle options. Regardless of what I want to build, Is should have a lot of leftover bitz, perfect for conversions and fun.
Excuse me, but I've been playing Necrons since 2006, so I'm hardly a band wagoner. Also, if you didn't notice I play Tyranids, and Eldar which are hardly the top of the heap right now in terms of Codex Creep.
I don't know what your problem is, with people wanting to plan out what they buy instead of being stuck with some units that may be completely useless on the table. If you want to buy some models just to paint up, and play fluffy, then that's fine. I'm not going to criticize your method of enjoying the game. On the flip side, you have no right to criticize how anyone else chooses to enjoy the game either.
Indeed, I am not a band wagon member either - I still have my 2nd ed necrons, the immortals of which will make excellent wielders of telsa weapons. I played in a world of tzeentch sorcerers in terminator armour on discs with vortex grenades, and scarabs which ate tanks big time. I still have my 1st edition 3rd ed codex, and the limited edition guy which is worth over $50 on ebay.
I am NOT spending my (very) hard earned cash on GW's opinion of what a "decent" unit is. For example, lychguard with just a warscyth sound worthless - no invun means they will die. Lychguard with only a 4+ invun makes me annoyed that terminators get a 3++ and wonder just how deeply the marine bias goes.
Its called being a intelligent consumer. If you play in tournaments, then it makes sense that your purchases are guided by this, and how dare anyone question another playstyle?
Still pondering my pre order i think you guys have it right with just the codex
but ill probably get the codex some lychgaurd and mabye a ghost ark as well which will most likely be a doomsday ark and proxy it for ghost when i need too i really only play my friends or thier friends or kids at the local nerd shop so who cares im not much of a tourny player
EDIT: Ill have lots of extra warriors to proxy as morts now and yes im glad ive got old models so i dont have totaly invest in a new army thats why ive been waiting for this codex
darkslife wrote:I am NOT spending my (very) hard earned cash on GW's opinion of what a "decent" unit is. For example, lychguard with just a warscyth sound worthless - no invun means they will die. Lychguard with only a 4+ invun makes me annoyed that terminators get a 3++ and wonder just how deeply the marine bias goes.
At the very least, in regards to that, a 4++ with a 5+ WBB is exactly equivalent to a 3++ - there's a 1/3 chance to lose your model in both cases. There is the chance that you won't get to make the WBB rolls if the squad is dead, though I guess the reflection kind of evens that out?
It would be nice if the Lychguard got 2+'s , though.
So everyones plan to just run 5 lychgaurd in a squad with shields thats what i was thinking probably more for preatorians what is everyone else thinking?
bluebomber wrote:Still pondering my pre order i think you guys have it right with just the codex
but ill probably get the codex some lychgaurd and mabye a ghost ark as well which will most likely be a doomsday ark and proxy it for ghost when i need too i really only play my friends or thier friends or kids at the local nerd shop so who cares im not much of a tourny player
EDIT: Ill have lots of extra warriors to proxy as morts now and yes im glad ive got old models so i dont have totaly invest in a new army thats why ive been waiting for this codex
I think the Lycheguard, and the Immortals are a good box set, because you have a ton of bits to work with, after you build your initial models.
I'm thinking of Using the Deathmark Heads for Crypteks, the Death mark weapons for converted Heavy Destroyers (a long with the extra bits from the Jumpacks on Praetorains) and other left over weapons from the Lycheguard, since I plan to use Dispersion Shields, and Hyperphase swords. So, I think no matter how the Codex turns out, those two boxes are a safe bet, for a wide variety of reasons.
Sasori wrote: On the flip side, you have no right to criticize how anyone else chooses to enjoy the game either.
The Internet is new to you, isn't it?
KingmanHighborn wrote:Ah they got outdated and broken, and revamped to just be flashy and extremely broken. I hate saying this though the models do look awesome. But having to wipe a whole squad just to stop the RP rolls? (At least that's my understanding, is instead of +4 and gone (WBB)...it's +5 every turn until the whole unit is dead?) And they shoulda kept Phase Out keeps them honest and even on the table.
Either you're trolling, or else you've never actually played a game with Necrons somewhere on the table.
bluebomber wrote:Still pondering my pre order i think you guys have it right with just the codex
but ill probably get the codex some lychgaurd and mabye a ghost ark as well which will most likely be a doomsday ark and proxy it for ghost when i need too i really only play my friends or thier friends or kids at the local nerd shop so who cares im not much of a tourny player
EDIT: Ill have lots of extra warriors to proxy as morts now and yes im glad ive got old models so i dont have totaly invest in a new army thats why ive been waiting for this codex
I think the Lycheguard, and the Immortals are a good box set, because you have a ton of bits to work with, after you build your initial models.
I'm thinking of Using the Deathmark Heads for Crypteks, the Death mark weapons for converted Heavy Destroyers (a long with the extra bits from the Jumpacks on Praetorains) and other left over weapons from the Lycheguard, since I plan to use Dispersion Shields, and Hyperphase swords. So, I think no matter how the Codex turns out, those two boxes are a safe bet, for a wide variety of reasons.
See i was thinking the head of a deathmark and the staff of a lychgaurd on a normal warrior and you have yourself a cryptek
I saw someone saying they didnt like to model the necrons and maybe i have fanboy goggles on because they are my first and only but i have lots of different models some really cool some pretty funny i just had fun with it
I don't like the sound of bandwagon accusations. I’ve found from personal experience that getting beaten again and again by people while playing list that I just threw together that one tends to begin to construct their list so they have a better chance of winning. There is nothing wrong with that. I'm sure that necron players get more than their fair slice of losses.
Looking at the lords again it seems like the stormlord and Tarzyn would hinder an army rather than help it. The stormlord would prevent you from shooting properly in exchange for some random lightning strikes, and tarzyn costs you a 40 point model every time he dies, returning with one wound and vulnerable to focussed fire.
I'm most interested in orikan the diviner, bringing him with a solar pulse and C'tan with manifestation would deal with all kinds of armies on turn 1, the ranged can't see and all the close combat can't move properly. I spose the only problem is he's not an overlord and can't take a cryptec of his own.
There's 132 pages now so this may have been answered. But if the C'tan are not in the codex why are their models being re-done in finecast?
The C'tan as special characters for hq have been removed, and instead there are C'tan shards as an elite choice (for which using the models of C'tan makes sense and is obviously intended).
The shards have slightly reduced stats and a choice of 2 powers from a short list (at various points values added to a base cost) instead of the rules they had before.
Howard A Treesong wrote:There's 132 pages now so this may have been answered. But if the C'tan are not in the codex why are their models being re-done in finecast?
Oh, and they are now £21.50, they were £12 when they first came out. There's inflation for you.
In the upcoming codex, you now have C'Tan "shards" represented by the very same models yet having completely different rules. You basically pay about 200 points for the shard itself and then have to choose two special abilities the shard gets, each taking between another 10-50 points, thus you might end up paying 250 points on average for a C'Tan shard. Those special abilities include stuff like a ranged AT weapon or an ability that makes all difficult terrain for your enemy dangerous terrain. Yakface mentioned it in the very first post.
I have been a frequent Dakka reader for a long time now, but decided to jump in, especially now that my favorite army, the Necrons, get a new codex. First of all, thanks a LOT to you, Yakface, for all the information. I can hardly wait to get my hands on the new codex although it surely means paying a lot of money for the new models...I recently started collecting Necrons and thus barely own any models, just about 40 warriors, a monolith, 3 destroyers, 2 heavy destroyers, a lord, a destroyer lord, a C'Tan and 10 scarab bases. No immortals (that seem to become mandatory with the new codex) and no wraiths (again, might be mandatory) and while it might certainly be extremely expensive, I still like the idea of having 4 arks packed with warriors.
thenoobbomb wrote:Am I the only one noticing this?
The name Imotekh the Stormlord was used in thev WD of december last year, as a Necron Lord.
Check it out.
Oh dear god....
They actually named something Imotekh (assumed pronunciation 'emo tech')?
Apologies for not having the human will to read 132 pages of....well, what-ever it was, but can someone confirm if this is a Matt Ward written codex?
I must say the miniatures look nice, but the price will continue to keep me from starting anything new from GW. I also noticed that the SV role has been reduced from 3+ to 4+ which, in addition to their low initiative means these guys are gonna get hammered in sweeping advance against Marines.....nasty.
thenoobbomb wrote:Am I the only one noticing this?
The name Imotekh the Stormlord was used in thev WD of december last year, as a Necron Lord.
Check it out.
Oh dear god....
They actually named something Imotekh (assumed pronunciation 'emo tech')?
Wow... just... wow....
I am assuming this is based off of the egyptian architect "Imotep".
Delephont wrote:Apologies for not having the human will to read 132 pages of....well, what-ever it was, but can someone confirm if this is a Matt Ward written codex?
I must say the miniatures look nice, but the price will continue to keep me from starting anything new from GW. I also noticed that the SV role has been reduced from 3+ to 4+ which, in addition to their low initiative means these guys are gonna get hammered in sweeping advance against Marines.....nasty.
There's 132 pages now so this may have been answered. But if the C'tan are not in the codex why are their models being re-done in finecast?
The C'tan as special characters for hq have been removed, and instead there are C'tan shards as an elite choice (for which using the models of C'tan makes sense and is obviously intended).
The shards have slightly reduced stats and a choice of 2 powers from a short list (at various points values added to a base cost) instead of the rules they had before.
Thanks to you and other responses. I had heard about the 'shards' but thought they had been relegated to fluff and weren't in the game using the old models.
Looks like we won't be getting a c'tan from forgeworld then.
ColdSadHungry wrote:Heh, Vulkan lists will cry when they see a Nightbringer across from them - that Lord of Flame ability can make flame and melta weapons explode!
In fact, some of the weapons these Necrons have look really powerful but I think my GK will be ok in CC against them, yay!
Only on a roll of a one. Apparently all it does is give meltas and flamers within 12" the Gets Hot rule. However, there are no saves if it blows (supposedly).
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Howard A Treesong wrote:
zacharia wrote:
There's 132 pages now so this may have been answered. But if the C'tan are not in the codex why are their models being re-done in finecast?
The C'tan as special characters for hq have been removed, and instead there are C'tan shards as an elite choice (for which using the models of C'tan makes sense and is obviously intended).
The shards have slightly reduced stats and a choice of 2 powers from a short list (at various points values added to a base cost) instead of the rules they had before.
Thanks to you and other responses. I had heard about the 'shards' but thought they had been relegated to fluff and weren't in the game using the old models.
Looks like we won't be getting a c'tan from forgeworld then.
Only on a roll of a one. Apparently all it does is give meltas and flamers within 12" the Gets Hot rule. However, there are no saves if it blows (supposedly).
According to Yak, the model is "removed as a casualty" thus no saves would be allowed. Then again, I wonder how useful this ability turns out to be...the chance of the enemy model blowing up is pretty low and you'd have to always keep the C'Tan near your vehicles, most likely the monolith. A babysitting C'Tan (shard)? That's about 250 points sitting next to 200 points...hmmm.
Only on a roll of a one. Apparently all it does is give meltas and flamers within 12" the Gets Hot rule. However, there are no saves if it blows (supposedly).
According to Yak, the model is "removed as a casualty" thus no saves would be allowed. Then again, I wonder how useful this ability turns out to be...the chance of the enemy model blowing up is pretty low and you'd have to always keep the C'Tan near your vehicles, most likely the monolith. A babysitting C'Tan (shard)? That's about 250 points sitting next to 200 points...hmmm.
Well, it is said to be one of the cheapest abilities out there.
You also have to remember that you could DS the mono. What I would do is keep the Mono in reserve, and send the C'tan forward to attact melta fire.
I can still see Forgworld doing C'tan models.
Even if there aren't any complete C'tan, I'll bet you that there are some greater shard... And I can't see Forgeworld letting this fine opportunity slip by.
shadzinator wrote:Looking at the lords again it seems like the stormlord and Tarzyn would hinder an army rather than help it. The stormlord would prevent you from shooting properly in exchange for some random lightning strikes, and tarzyn costs you a 40 point model every time he dies, returning with one wound and vulnerable to focussed fire.
I'm most interested in orikan the diviner, bringing him with a solar pulse and C'tan with manifestation would deal with all kinds of armies on turn 1, the ranged can't see and all the close combat can't move properly. I spose the only problem is he's not an overlord and can't take a cryptec of his own.
You can use Solar Pulses to cancel the night fighting on your turn, and shoot. The Stormlord also has a 4+ to Seize and some other pretty nifty wargear, he is by no means a hindrance. You just need to plan accordingly.
Trayzn is also a Scoring IC, that is nearly impossible to kill, and does not net VP unless he is put down for good. He also has some other nifty wargear, such as his Empathic Obliterater, which is pretty powerful against hordes of low save models. He takes the place of the 40 point model, but his scoring an objective can win a game.
Hmmm I wonder what to start with given that the point limit of our first games will be 1000. I will (sigh) face MEQ left and right, including GK, and while Imotekh definitely looks like an awesome IC, its point cost might be too high for 1000 points. I already considered taking Tarzyn, but then again, his CC ability seems to be rather pointless against MEQ, it will be hard enough to even inflicht a single wound on them.
Units-wise, I'd like to go for mainly warriors, but again, against MEQ, immortals simply seem to be the far superior choice. Gauss weaponry won't penetrate their 3+ anyway, same as tesla, but at least with tesla weapons, I get a few more potential wounds...against AV, of course, Gauss is the better choice (and cybots...) thus I thought about bringing 1-2 arks with 10 warriors (to get in RF range) along with a squad of destroyers since they nullify the MEQ 3+ now. Not to forget about the scarabs of course. But then...I'd like to throw a monolith in, but I'd still need a HQ and am already close to 1000.
Sigvatr wrote:Hmmm I wonder what to start with given that the point limit of our first games will be 1000. I will (sigh) face MEQ left and right, including GK, and while Imotekh definitely looks like an awesome IC, its point cost might be too high for 1000 points. I already considered taking Tarzyn, but then again, his CC ability seems to be rather pointless against MEQ, it will be hard enough to even inflicht a single wound on them.
Units-wise, I'd like to go for mainly warriors, but again, against MEQ, immortals simply seem to be the far superior choice. Gauss weaponry won't penetrate their 3+ anyway, same as tesla, but at least with tesla weapons, I get a few more potential wounds...against AV, of course, Gauss is the better choice (and cybots...) thus I thought about bringing 1-2 arks with 10 warriors (to get in RF range) along with a squad of destroyers since they nullify the MEQ 3+ now. Not to forget about the scarabs of course. But then...I'd like to throw a monolith in, but I'd still need a HQ and am already close to 1000.
And then, there still are terminators. Hmpf.
1000 points is going to be pretty rough. I'd say try go get up to the 1500-2000 as soon as you can. While a lot of costs have gone down in the codex, things like the Ghost Ark being 115, you'll really feel the pinch at 1000 points. With transports eating that much, meching up at 1000 will probably not be very feasable. The bright side is you can field walking horde pretty well, with the Royal court and some dedicated close combat units.
1000 points is going to be pretty rough. I'd say try go get up to the 1500-2000 as soon as you can. While a lot of costs have gone down in the codex, things like the Ghost Ark being 115, you'll really feel the pinch at 1000 points. With transports eating that much, meching up at 1000 will probably not be very feasable. The bright side is you can field walking horde pretty well, with the Royal court and some dedicated close combat units.
Many thanks for the reply.
Yes, and that's what I'd like to field the most since I always thought of necrons being more of a horde of robots than a small, elite army...but the new vehicles look way too awesome to miss! Anyway, going for mass immortals might seem to be the most effective choice yet it would also be the priciest option as I own 40 warriors yet no immortals - and with 30€ (or rather 18€) per 5, it's quite expensive. But in order to be effective, normal warriors need to be in RF range...and the last thing I want to see is MEQ assaulting necron warriors
I think Forgeworld could very well do C'tan for apocalypse, either "Greater" shards or specific god shards. It would be cool to see a shard of the Void Dragon(he is recorded as the strongest C'tan after all, pre new codex anyways) with upgraded stats and powerful vechicle manipulating abilities.
Marshal_Hadrial wrote:I think Forgeworld could very well do C'tan for apocalypse, either "Greater" shards or specific god shards. It would be cool to see a shard of the Void Dragon(he is recorded as the strongest C'tan after all, pre new codex anyways) with upgraded stats and powerful vechicle manipulating abilities.
Marshal_Hadrial wrote:I think Forgeworld could very well do C'tan for apocalypse, either "Greater" shards or specific god shards. It would be cool to see a shard of the Void Dragon(he is recorded as the strongest C'tan after all, pre new codex anyways) with upgraded stats and powerful vechicle manipulating abilities.
Actually, you could just convert an Elf dragon...
Oh.. my.. god. Just figured out how to add the zombie dragon to an existing army!
Marshal_Hadrial wrote:I think Forgeworld could very well do C'tan for apocalypse, either "Greater" shards or specific god shards. It would be cool to see a shard of the Void Dragon(he is recorded as the strongest C'tan after all, pre new codex anyways) with upgraded stats and powerful vechicle manipulating abilities.
I'm pretty sure the Outsider was the strongest C'tan.
Marshal_Hadrial wrote:I think Forgeworld could very well do C'tan for apocalypse, either "Greater" shards or specific god shards. It would be cool to see a shard of the Void Dragon(he is recorded as the strongest C'tan after all, pre new codex anyways) with upgraded stats and powerful vechicle manipulating abilities.
I'm pretty sure the Outsider was the strongest C'tan.
Nope. Dragon is described has the C'tan who has the strongest hold over the material plane.
Marshal_Hadrial wrote:I think Forgeworld could very well do C'tan for apocalypse, either "Greater" shards or specific god shards. It would be cool to see a shard of the Void Dragon(he is recorded as the strongest C'tan after all, pre new codex anyways) with upgraded stats and powerful vechicle manipulating abilities.
I'm pretty sure the Outsider was the strongest C'tan.
Nope. Dragon is described has the C'tan who has the strongest hold over the material plane.
"While the Outsider cannot match the Nightbringer for pure force, or the Deciever for guile and cunning, it is rumoured to be the most deadly and dangerous of the four remaining C'tan."
Marshal_Hadrial wrote:I think Forgeworld could very well do C'tan for apocalypse, either "Greater" shards or specific god shards. It would be cool to see a shard of the Void Dragon(he is recorded as the strongest C'tan after all, pre new codex anyways) with upgraded stats and powerful vechicle manipulating abilities.
I'm pretty sure the Outsider was the strongest C'tan.
Nope. Dragon is described has the C'tan who has the strongest hold over the material plane.
"While the Outsider cannot match the Nightbringer for pure force, or the Deciever for guile and cunning, it is rumoured to be the most deadly and dangerous of the four remaining C'tan."
The Void Dragon, if it actually exists, is arguably the most powerful C'tan, particularly after the banishment of the Nightbringer's phase scythe to the Warp by the Old Ones and their Eldar servants during the War of Heaven millions of years ago, although the Nightbringer seems to have had a much more sinister effect on the galaxy as a whole.
Marshal_Hadrial wrote:I think Forgeworld could very well do C'tan for apocalypse, either "Greater" shards or specific god shards. It would be cool to see a shard of the Void Dragon(he is recorded as the strongest C'tan after all, pre new codex anyways) with upgraded stats and powerful vechicle manipulating abilities.
I'm pretty sure the Outsider was the strongest C'tan.
Nope. Dragon is described has the C'tan who has the strongest hold over the material plane.
"While the Outsider cannot match the Nightbringer for pure force, or the Deciever for guile and cunning, it is rumoured to be the most deadly and dangerous of the four remaining C'tan."
In the "Dawn of the C'tan" Story GW wrote and had on their website it is said that the Void Dragon was the strongest.
In a transcript of a Vox-communication between one Inquisitor Horst and a Tech-priest Alagos, the Void Dragon is mentioned as the most powerful of all the Star Gods and that it had the ability to create almost invincible warriors.
The Void Dragon is the most powerful C'tan and still resides in stasis, theorized to be located beneath Mars and is rumoured to be the Machine God venerated by the Machine Cult of the Adeptus Mechanicus.
One of my favorite things about the old necrons was that they were a monkey-wrench army. They ignored or made difficult the things people were used to. I believe that has continued because in this army you could have all of the following:
Dangerous/difficult terrain tests for EVERYTHING
Night Fight for half the game (2 turns of which you can ignore)
Permanently reducing saves and armor
Blowing up meltas
Twin-linking the whole dang army
Coming in from reserve in response to your opponent, getting to pick and choose your next turn's moves without them responding they way they wanted.
and to Yakface, I have a few questions:
The deathmarks might be expensive, but if I take three units of them, can I choose three squads to wound on a 2+? Seems to me I could just pick three units and basically end one each turn.
Are wraiths str 6? Are we allowed to know their statline? Are their lash whips only useful against models in b2b or do they work against everyone in combat.
When you return models to the field with RP rolls, how do they return, specifically? Is it one at a time or is it all at once? Do they enter in coherency?
So going crazy for c'tan shard ideas. Necrosphynx with the barge cannon on its back as a gun beast? khemrian warsphynx with the necron skullish face and gauss blasers on the arms? Going to be soo fun to make shards.
Kroothawk wrote:As some people have noticed: The new Necron photo background features some flyers. These could be a first glimpse at the Night Scythe/Doom Scythe:
Lol. I was right. They will look like Death Gliders.
Kroothawk wrote:As some people have noticed: The new Necron photo background features some flyers. These could be a first glimpse at the Night Scythe/Doom Scythe:
Lol. I was right. They will look like Death Gliders.
Considering that 3/5 of their BFG ships look like Death Gliders, it was kind of a given.
That's pretty rediculous. The old destroyer lord with wraiths trick was pretty good, but now...to be able to have 18 wraiths, all with lashes, an extra wound, and rending, and maybe even wound shenanigains. Scarabs might be good, but that unit sounds absolutely terrifying for its points cost if they're even close to their old points cost.
Screw praetorians. I'm buying more wraiths.
As a side note, is the annihilation barge really only 90 points? I mean that thing basically gurantees a torched chimera/rhino every turn, sometimes even two, and if it has quantum sheilding, that's pretty darn terrifying. At that low points value, heck, even at mid to high points, that's absolutely worth it. Why didn't they spoil that instead of the overlord version? The thing can even turbo-boost into position.
Kitzz wrote:That's pretty rediculous. The old destroyer lord with wraiths trick was pretty good, but now...to be able to have 18 wraiths, all with lashes, an extra wound, and rending, and maybe even wound shenanigains. Scarabs might be good, but that unit sounds absolutely terrifying for its points cost if they're even close to their old points cost.
Screw praetorians. I'm buying more wraiths.
As a side note, is the annihilation barge really only 90 points? I mean that thing basically gurantees a torched chimera/rhino every turn, sometimes even two, and if it has quantum sheilding, that's pretty darn terrifying. At that low points value, heck, even at mid to high points, that's absolutely worth it. Why didn't they spoil that instead of the overlord version? The thing can even turbo-boost into position.
How does it guarantee a dead Av12 vehicle? Tesla Destruction is S7. Meaning 5s glances (at -3), and 6 pens (at -1)
Kitzz wrote:That's pretty rediculous. The old destroyer lord with wraiths trick was pretty good, but now...to be able to have 18 wraiths, all with lashes, an extra wound, and rending, and maybe even wound shenanigains. Scarabs might be good, but that unit sounds absolutely terrifying for its points cost if they're even close to their old points cost.
Screw praetorians. I'm buying more wraiths.
As a side note, is the annihilation barge really only 90 points? I mean that thing basically gurantees a torched chimera/rhino every turn, sometimes even two, and if it has quantum sheilding, that's pretty darn terrifying. At that low points value, heck, even at mid to high points, that's absolutely worth it. Why didn't they spoil that instead of the overlord version? The thing can even turbo-boost into position.
I've been saying the same thing regarding Annie B. People will decry its 24" range, but when you get a fast moving vehicle halfway across the table, 24" will usually get you in range to whatever you need destroyed...and if not you can always turbo boost to reposition.
Kitzz wrote:That's pretty rediculous. The old destroyer lord with wraiths trick was pretty good, but now...to be able to have 18 wraiths, all with lashes, an extra wound, and rending, and maybe even wound shenanigains. Scarabs might be good, but that unit sounds absolutely terrifying for its points cost if they're even close to their old points cost.
Screw praetorians. I'm buying more wraiths.
As a side note, is the annihilation barge really only 90 points? I mean that thing basically gurantees a torched chimera/rhino every turn, sometimes even two, and if it has quantum sheilding, that's pretty darn terrifying. At that low points value, heck, even at mid to high points, that's absolutely worth it. Why didn't they spoil that instead of the overlord version? The thing can even turbo-boost into position.
How does it guarantee a dead Av12 vehicle? Tesla Destruction is S7. Meaning 5s glances (at -3), and 6 pens (at -1)
Thats not a guarantee.
it also has that underslung tesla cannon (which can be switched to a gauss cannon) but it still seems like on average you'd be disabling enemy vehicles with annihilation barges, rather than destroying them outright.
I apologize for my earlier words. I did not mean for them to be taken like that.
Kitzz wrote:That's pretty rediculous. The old destroyer lord with wraiths trick was pretty good, but now...to be able to have 18 wraiths, all with lashes, an extra wound, and rending, and maybe even wound shenanigains. Scarabs might be good, but that unit sounds absolutely terrifying for its points cost if they're even close to their old points cost.
Screw praetorians. I'm buying more wraiths.
As a side note, is the annihilation barge really only 90 points? I mean that thing basically gurantees a torched chimera/rhino every turn, sometimes even two, and if it has quantum sheilding, that's pretty darn terrifying. At that low points value, heck, even at mid to high points, that's absolutely worth it. Why didn't they spoil that instead of the overlord version? The thing can even turbo-boost into position.
Wraiths sound like they are going to be very strong now. I expect them to be the target of a lot of STR 8 shooting, and I2 seems to be a problem. Whip coils will probably be an almost mandatory upgrade for them. I just wish there was more ways to get the royal court in there. I'm not sure if I missed anything, but I don't think there was anyway to increase the movement of Crypteks?
Another fun idea. I wonder if regular lords can have destroyer bodies? If that's the case, you could probably make a fun fast moving unit with preferred enemy. And seeing how destroyers are jump infantry now, they could also fit in the night scythe.
BSent wrote:I apologize for my earlier words. I did not mean for them to be taken like that.
Kitzz wrote:That's pretty rediculous. The old destroyer lord with wraiths trick was pretty good, but now...to be able to have 18 wraiths, all with lashes, an extra wound, and rending, and maybe even wound shenanigains. Scarabs might be good, but that unit sounds absolutely terrifying for its points cost if they're even close to their old points cost.
Screw praetorians. I'm buying more wraiths.
As a side note, is the annihilation barge really only 90 points? I mean that thing basically gurantees a torched chimera/rhino every turn, sometimes even two, and if it has quantum sheilding, that's pretty darn terrifying. At that low points value, heck, even at mid to high points, that's absolutely worth it. Why didn't they spoil that instead of the overlord version? The thing can even turbo-boost into position.
Wraiths sound like they are going to be very strong now. I expect them to be the target of a lot of STR 8 shooting, and I2 seems to be a problem. Whip coils will probably be an almost mandatory upgrade for them. I just wish there was more ways to get the royal court in there. I'm not sure if I missed anything, but I don't think there was anyway to increase the movement of Crypteks?
Another fun idea. I wonder if regular lords can have destroyer bodies? If that's the case, you could probably make a fun fast moving unit with preferred enemy. And seeing how destroyers are jump infantry now, they could also fit in the night scythe.
I believe Yak mentioned that Destroyer Bodies are not an actual upgrade option for anyone, and the Destroyer Lord is actually a seperate HQ option to the Overlord if I recall right.
Kitzz wrote:That's pretty rediculous. The old destroyer lord with wraiths trick was pretty good, but now...to be able to have 18 wraiths, all with lashes, an extra wound, and rending, and maybe even wound shenanigains. Scarabs might be good, but that unit sounds absolutely terrifying for its points cost if they're even close to their old points cost.
Screw praetorians. I'm buying more wraiths.
As a side note, is the annihilation barge really only 90 points? I mean that thing basically gurantees a torched chimera/rhino every turn, sometimes even two, and if it has quantum sheilding, that's pretty darn terrifying. At that low points value, heck, even at mid to high points, that's absolutely worth it. Why didn't they spoil that instead of the overlord version? The thing can even turbo-boost into position.
How does it guarantee a dead Av12 vehicle? Tesla Destruction is S7. Meaning 5s glances (at -3), and 6 pens (at -1)
Thats not a guarantee.
Keep in mind the Night Scythe Transport also has a Twin linked Tesla Destructor. That's the main reason I don't see much Value in the Annihilation barge. 90 points is fairly cheap though, that's for sure.
BSent wrote:I apologize for my earlier words. I did not mean for them to be taken like that.
Kitzz wrote:That's pretty rediculous. The old destroyer lord with wraiths trick was pretty good, but now...to be able to have 18 wraiths, all with lashes, an extra wound, and rending, and maybe even wound shenanigains. Scarabs might be good, but that unit sounds absolutely terrifying for its points cost if they're even close to their old points cost.
Screw praetorians. I'm buying more wraiths.
As a side note, is the annihilation barge really only 90 points? I mean that thing basically gurantees a torched chimera/rhino every turn, sometimes even two, and if it has quantum sheilding, that's pretty darn terrifying. At that low points value, heck, even at mid to high points, that's absolutely worth it. Why didn't they spoil that instead of the overlord version? The thing can even turbo-boost into position.
Wraiths sound like they are going to be very strong now. I expect them to be the target of a lot of STR 8 shooting, and I2 seems to be a problem. Whip coils will probably be an almost mandatory upgrade for them. I just wish there was more ways to get the royal court in there. I'm not sure if I missed anything, but I don't think there was anyway to increase the movement of Crypteks?
Another fun idea. I wonder if regular lords can have destroyer bodies? If that's the case, you could probably make a fun fast moving unit with preferred enemy. And seeing how destroyers are jump infantry now, they could also fit in the night scythe.
since Wraiths are on 40mm bases, i don't think you'll need to give all of them whip coils -- two or three of them will probably touch enough enemy bases to slow down the dangerous stuff, and they're pretty survivable besides. you can also put a Destroyer Lord in with them to give them a nice, reliable source of power weapon swings.
one real killer with the Destroyer Lord is that he can't take a phase shifter any more, which i don't really get...
they don't benefit too much from members of a Royal Court, aside from a Res Orb, but you can put that on the D. Lord leading them.
as far as movement modifiers for Crypteks, i think the only option is the VOD, which is useless for wraiths since they won't be able to assault. timesplinter cloak might do something for movement, but since its paired with the Chronometron i'm thinking that it forces the enemy to reroll attacks against that unit or something.
As a side note, is the annihilation barge really only 90 points? I mean that thing basically gurantees a torched chimera/rhino every turn, sometimes even two, and if it has quantum sheilding, that's pretty darn terrifying. At that low points value, heck, even at mid to high points, that's absolutely worth it. Why didn't they spoil that instead of the overlord version? The thing can even turbo-boost into position.
I've been saying the same thing regarding Annie B. People will decry its 24" range, but when you get a fast moving vehicle halfway across the table, 24" will usually get you in range to whatever you need destroyed...and if not you can always turbo boost to reposition.
According to the website, the Annihilation Barge is simply (Skimmer, Open-Topped). No fast moving, no moving flat out.
I believe Yak mentioned that Destroyer Bodies are not an actual upgrade option for anyone, and the Destroyer Lord is actually a seperate HQ option to the Overlord if I recall right.
Oh. Guess I overlooked that. It's fairly easy what with 134 pages of text!
Well we'll probably see one of those in a wraith list. Although 2 could be powerful, I don't see people missing out on the opportunity to take a royal court. One solar pulse could be all an army needs to get it to the other side.
Boy, can't wait for the codex! Crypteks sound semi-mandatory to help warriors to survive combat (with tremor staves and stuff). Definitley gonna kitbash some deathmarks/praetorians/warriors, to get some, hopefully, good looking crypteks
What does the new Necron codex mean for Tau? I mean, these Necrons look like they have some unbelievable firepower. They're all I2 but some of their CC wepaons are great but they certainly look like a very strong, if mad-range shooty army.
What are they gonna give Tau to make them stand out as the shooty army of WH40K? Extra range, OK, but they're gonna have to practically spam S6+ and AP1 all over the show to make the Tau the best shooty army of 6th ed, surely?
ColdSadHungry wrote:What does the new Necron codex mean for Tau? I mean, these Necrons look like they have some unbelievable firepower. They're all I2 but some of their CC wepaons are great but they certainly look like a very strong, if mad-range shooty army.
What are they gonna give Tau to make them stand out as the shooty army of WH40K? Extra range, OK, but they're gonna have to practically spam S6+ and AP1 all over the show to make the Tau the best shooty army of 6th ed, surely?
I think they will add strong long range firepower. I am more inclined to believe though that they will add new races and units in like kroot combat troops.
ColdSadHungry wrote:What does the new Necron codex mean for Tau? I mean, these Necrons look like they have some unbelievable firepower. They're all I2 but some of their CC wepaons are great but they certainly look like a very strong, if mad-range shooty army.
What are they gonna give Tau to make them stand out as the shooty army of WH40K? Extra range, OK, but they're gonna have to practically spam S6+ and AP1 all over the show to make the Tau the best shooty army of 6th ed, surely?
Lets not hihack this thread to tau...This is the necrons day of glory!
As a side note, is the annihilation barge really only 90 points? I mean that thing basically gurantees a torched chimera/rhino every turn, sometimes even two, and if it has quantum sheilding, that's pretty darn terrifying. At that low points value, heck, even at mid to high points, that's absolutely worth it. Why didn't they spoil that instead of the overlord version? The thing can even turbo-boost into position.
I've been saying the same thing regarding Annie B. People will decry its 24" range, but when you get a fast moving vehicle halfway across the table, 24" will usually get you in range to whatever you need destroyed...and if not you can always turbo boost to reposition.
According to the website, the Annihilation Barge is simply (Skimmer, Open-Topped). No fast moving, no moving flat out.
The website also doesn't say the CCB is fast, but it clearly says that it is in the WD article. I wouldn't worry about it too much.
I played two games this weekend using the rules that were posted by Yak. Both were 500 point matches, and I played against the tau. I believe his list was:
Battle suit commander
tl missle
flamer
2x Battle suits
tl missle
flamer
2x Battle suits
tl missle
flamer
7x fire warriors
12x kroot
12x kroot
Game 1:
My list:
Overlord with no upgrades, staff of light
10x Warriors
10x Warriors
x2 Destroyers, x1 Heavy Destroyer
We played pitched battle and annihilation. I went first.
Turn 1, I positioned my destroyers and tried to shoot his battle suits, and rolled all 1's to hit. His turn 1 took out a destroyer.
Turn 2, I put the destroyers in cover, and shot again, rolled all 1's or 2's, and tried a warrior squad at his warriors, who immediately went to ground and saved everything. He then destroyed another destroyer and half a squad of warriors.
Turn 3, I shot with the heavy destroyer again, got a 6 to hit, a 1 to wound, then ran the hell into cover. He then wiped out half of the other squad of warriors as well as the heavy destroyer.
I gave up at that point with no way to take out his battle suits.
Game 1:
My list:
Overlord with no upgrades, staff of light
x5 immortals w/ tesla
x5 immortals w/ tesla
x5 scarabs
x5 scarabs
x2 wraiths
We played with 5 points and dawn of war.
Turn 1, my scarabs and wraiths came out, and sat for next turn, the immortals took 2 points and hid. He set up a a line of kroot, hid everything behind it, and had a kroot squad sit on a point. 2:1 me
Turn 2, moved scarabs up and wraiths. Shot with immortals, killed half of fire warrior squad. rolled double 1's to run up scarabs, 6 to move up wraith into cover. Lost a squad of scarabs against all of his firepower and moved his fire warriors onto a point 2:2
Turn 3, moved up scarabs and wraiths, went to run scarab squad, got a 2. Assaulted a squad of battlesuits, he saved all wounds, i lost a wraith and it stood up (first successful rp roll of the day.) Shot up a squad of immortals to 3, then assaulted and wipe out the wraiths with kroot. 2:2
Turn 4, assaulted his kroot with scarabs, inflicted 0 wounds and lost all 5 scarabs (used ws 2, str 3, i 2, 3 attacks each, 3 wounds each, 5+ save). He then got rid of the immortals he shot up earlier. His win 1:2.
Two lessons learned: When you fail at rolling, you will lose. Necrons are very limited in games with little points still.
They can now one shot marines. I call that an improvement.
Exactly. I love the new destroyers and I can happily live with one shot less when the two remaining shots ignore the MEQ 3+. Yes, people are correct when they say that it's worse against targets with a different armor, but then again, it always feels like 80% of W40k players play MEQ.
omerakk wrote:As long as those marines are running around out in the open, it's an improvement. If they are getting any kind of cover, the guns are worse.
omerakk wrote:As long as those marines are running around out in the open, it's an improvement. If they are getting any kind of cover, the guns are worse.
Sasori wrote:Your really not going to get any decent indication of how the army can run until you get to 1500 points and up.
500 points is grossly in favor of a few armies, and knocks down the others.
For instance, battlesuits are some of the best things in the Tau codex, and he is using 5 at 500 points.
Start playing at above 1500, and watch your Doomsday cannon kill 3 battlesuits at once.
Sadly, he only owns an army of about 1150 points and he was busy painting his other 650 points worth. I wanted to play against my ork friend but he was an idiot and lost his codex and didn't want to look online for it. Next weekend I'm gonna play again in a 1500 point match. I'm forcing my tau friend to upgrade everything, even if he doesn't want to. never playing 500 points as necrons again.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
omerakk wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
omerakk wrote:As long as those marines are running around out in the open, it's an improvement. If they are getting any kind of cover, the guns are worse.
A 4+ cover save is still worse than a 3+ save.
And 15 shots going into a squad is better than 6.
With 1 less shot per destroyer, and the squad only being 1-3 instead of 3-5, It really seems like a nerf, even though its now AP 3. I think they could have at least kept the 3 shots if you make the max squad size 2 less than before. Also, I'd like to point out that the loss of turbo-boosting really makes these guys less mobile then before. Only by nerfing the destroyers does GW find a way to profit off the Fast Attack slot for necron players.
omerakk wrote:As long as those marines are running around out in the open, it's an improvement. If they are getting any kind of cover, the guns are worse.
A 4+ cover save is still worse than a 3+ save.
And 15 shots going into a squad is better than 6.
9 shots.
3 old destroyers = 9
3 new destroyers = 6
And even then:
2/3 chance of hitting
9 : 6 hits
6 : 4
5/6 chance of wounding
:nearly 5 wounds
:most likely all 4 wounds
Against AP4 = 2/3 chance of saving
about 3 or 4 saved, meaning 1 or 2 wounds
Against AP 3 = N0 chance, 4 wounds
In cover : 1/2 chance of saving
2 saved, 2 wounds.
I would say its about even.
Well, ok the squad size is a bit smaller, but you can now have preferred enemy, marines still die easily, you can now deepstrike, take a nightscythe (maybe)
omerakk wrote:As long as those marines are running around out in the open, it's an improvement. If they are getting any kind of cover, the guns are worse.
A 4+ cover save is still worse than a 3+ save.
And 15 shots going into a squad is better than 6.
Squads are only 3 now, so you would be saying that 9 Shots is better than six, if you are just comparing the qualities of the new weapon.
Someone can do the mathhammer, but I think the 6 shots at AP3 is much better than the 9 Shots for killing marines.
omerakk wrote:As long as those marines are running around out in the open, it's an improvement. If they are getting any kind of cover, the guns are worse.
A 4+ cover save is still worse than a 3+ save.
And 15 shots going into a squad is better than 6.
Couldn't agree more, the more saves your opponent has to make the more painful it becomes for them*.
omerakk wrote:As long as those marines are running around out in the open, it's an improvement. If they are getting any kind of cover, the guns are worse.
A 4+ cover save is still worse than a 3+ save.
And 15 shots going into a squad is better than 6.
Squads are only 3 now, so you would be saying that 9 Shots is better than six, if you are just comparing the qualities of the new weapon.
Someone can do the mathhammer, but I think the 6 shots at AP3 is much better than the 9 Shots for killing marines.
omerakk wrote:As long as those marines are running around out in the open, it's an improvement. If they are getting any kind of cover, the guns are worse.
A 4+ cover save is still worse than a 3+ save.
And 15 shots going into a squad is better than 6.
Squads are only 3 now, so you would be saying that 9 Shots is better than six, if you are just comparing the qualities of the new weapon.
Someone can do the mathhammer, but I think the 6 shots at AP3 is much better than the 9 Shots for killing marines.
Already done. See above.
Well, its not Mathhammer but anyway.
Yeah, didn't see it till to late. I just think it's silly when someone trys to skew the numbers in their favor like that.
Thanks for the small math hammer part, CthulhuIsSpy.
Furthermore, on top of the fact that MEQ now lose their 3+ against destroyers, their overall movement becomes more predictable as they must either get in cover or risk having no save at all.
I do hope, however, that PE also applies to ranged attacks in 6th as right now, it is a completely worthless rule for destroyers.
omerakk wrote:As long as those marines are running around out in the open, it's an improvement. If they are getting any kind of cover, the guns are worse.
A 4+ cover save is still worse than a 3+ save.
And 15 shots going into a squad is better than 6.
Squads are only 3 now, so you would be saying that 9 Shots is better than six, if you are just comparing the qualities of the new weapon.
Someone can do the mathhammer, but I think the 6 shots at AP3 is much better than the 9 Shots for killing marines.
Already done. See above.
Well, its not Mathhammer but anyway.
Yeah, didn't see it till to late. I just think it's silly when someone trys to skew the numbers in their favor like that.
It's not skewing the numbers in game terms at all.
What's the most effective number of destroyers in the new codex? 3, that is your max. What's the most effective number of destroyers in the old codex? 5, that is your max.
Comparing 3 v 3 is just dandy, but ignoring that the squads used to be 5 is ignoring a huge factor when comparing the new destroyers to the old ones.
New advantages:
ap3 for better kills in the open
reduced cost
can deepstrike
Old advantages:
greater squad size (more survivability, greater amount of shots, better kills vs cover, greater chance for pens/glances on vehicles due to shots)
could turbo boost
Really, they didn't upgrade or downgrade, they just went sideways. The only thing that really changed was now you can max out at 9 destroyers, so anyone that had more than that is going to be shelving or selling models
aboytervigon wrote:Meh, we don't need destroyers now and also there cheap enough to be run in small 3 man suicide squads.
I think that pretty much sums it up and makes the destroyer debate a moot point. They used to be our only option for strong fire support. This is no longer the case. Plus, seeing as how they compete for the fast slot against scarabs and wraiths; which both seem to be extremely useful now... is there really any purpose for a regular destroyer group instead of a heavy group?
omerakk wrote:As long as those marines are running around out in the open, it's an improvement. If they are getting any kind of cover, the guns are worse.
A 4+ cover save is still worse than a 3+ save.
And 15 shots going into a squad is better than 6.
Squads are only 3 now, so you would be saying that 9 Shots is better than six, if you are just comparing the qualities of the new weapon.
Someone can do the mathhammer, but I think the 6 shots at AP3 is much better than the 9 Shots for killing marines.
Already done. See above.
Well, its not Mathhammer but anyway.
Yeah, didn't see it till to late. I just think it's silly when someone trys to skew the numbers in their favor like that.
It's not skewing the numbers in game terms at all.
What's the most effective number of destroyers in the new codex? 3, that is your max. What's the most effective number of destroyers in the old codex? 5, that is your max.
Comparing 3 v 3 is just dandy, but ignoring that the squads used to be 5 is ignoring a huge factor when comparing the new destroyers to the old ones.
New advantages:
ap3 for better kills in the open
reduced cost
can deepstrike
Old advantages:
greater squad size (more survivability, greater amount of shots, better kills vs cover, greater chance for pens/glances on vehicles due to shots)
could turbo boost
Really, they didn't upgrade or downgrade, they just went sideways. The only thing that really changed was now you can max out at 9 destroyers, so anyone that had more than that is going to be shelving or selling models
Your posts were not comparing the Old vs New Destroyers. People were specifically comparing the old vs new guns. So Yes, comparing the squad size in that instance is not relevant. If you want to compare Old Destroyers vs New destroyers then the squad size is relevant. The posts I were reading, were just about if the Guns are better or not.
Well the way I see it, is that although the old ones put out more shots, the new is still better.
This example uses 9 rounds of shooting with a sqaud of 5. Now I know you can't get that many in a squad, and of course they are variables and a game would never last this long, but this works out just to show whole numbers. Now then...
Old Cannon
9 rounds of shooting= 135 Shots fired at BS4= Meaning 90 hits. Only a 1 won't wound= Meaning 75 wounds. 3+ Armor saves means= 25 dead marines. If that squad is in cover, they suffer the same amount because there armor save is better.
New Cannon
9 rounds of shooting= 90 Shots fired at BS4= Meaning 60 hits. Only a 1 won't wound= Meaning 50 wounds. At AP3, that is 50 dead marines. That is double the amount of dead marines compared to the old cannon. If they are in cover, only half will survive, meaning 25 dead marines, which is the same.
If the marine is in the open the new cannon will kill a lot more. If the marine is in cover, both cannons will kill the same equally.
BSent wrote:Well the way I see it, is that although the old ones put out more shots, the new is still better.
This example uses 9 rounds of shooting with a sqaud of 5. Now I know you can't get that many in a squad, and of course they are variables and a game would never last this long, but this works out just to show whole numbers. Now then...
Old Cannon
9 rounds of shooting= 135 Shots fired at BS4= Meaning 90 hits. Only a 1 won't wound= Meaning 75 wounds. 3+ Armor saves means= 25 dead marines. If that squad is in cover, they suffer the same amount because there armor save is better.
New Cannon
9 rounds of shooting= 90 Shots fired at BS4= Meaning 60 hits. Only a 1 won't wound= Meaning 50 wounds. At AP3, that is 50 dead marines. That is double the amount of dead marines compared to the old cannon. If they are in cover, only half will survive, meaning 25 dead marines, which is the same.
If the marine is in the open the new cannon will kill a lot more. If the marine is in cover, both cannons will kill the same equally.
Remember, now that you can deep strike them, when the enemy is in cover, you can teleport behind them and kill them. you could even have a cryptek attach on with a veil (don't see any reason to ever use destroyers for this) and do the same thing. the AP 3 will be very useful, but i still wish the destroyers squad could have remained at 5 max instead of 3.
aboytervigon wrote:Meh, we don't need destroyers now and also there cheap enough to be run in small 3 man suicide squads.
I think that pretty much sums it up and makes the destroyer debate a moot point. They used to be our only option for strong fire support. This is no longer the case. Plus, seeing as how they compete for the fast slot against scarabs and wraiths; which both seem to be extremely useful now... is there really any purpose for a regular destroyer group instead of a heavy group?
Unless they get Relentless SR or are Jetpack JI then they will have problems moving and shooting Heavy Weapons, at least when they were classed as Jetbikes they had the Relentless SR.
aboytervigon wrote:Meh, we don't need destroyers now and also there cheap enough to be run in small 3 man suicide squads.
I think that pretty much sums it up and makes the destroyer debate a moot point. They used to be our only option for strong fire support. This is no longer the case. Plus, seeing as how they compete for the fast slot against scarabs and wraiths; which both seem to be extremely useful now... is there really any purpose for a regular destroyer group instead of a heavy group?
Unless they get Relentless SR or are Jetpack JI then they will have problems moving and shooting Heavy Weapons, at least when they were classed as Jetbikes they had the Relentless SR.
aboytervigon wrote:Meh, we don't need destroyers now and also there cheap enough to be run in small 3 man suicide squads.
I think that pretty much sums it up and makes the destroyer debate a moot point. They used to be our only option for strong fire support. This is no longer the case. Plus, seeing as how they compete for the fast slot against scarabs and wraiths; which both seem to be extremely useful now... is there really any purpose for a regular destroyer group instead of a heavy group?
Unless they get Relentless SR or are Jetpack JI then they will have problems moving and shooting Heavy Weapons, at least when they were classed as Jetbikes they had the Relentless SR.
Sasori wrote:Your posts were not comparing the Old vs New Destroyers. People were specifically comparing the old vs new guns. So Yes, comparing the squad size in that instance is not relevant. If you want to compare Old Destroyers vs New destroyers then the squad size is relevant. The posts I were reading, were just about if the Guns are better or not.
My posts were intended to compare the units, not the weapons. I apologize for not making that more clear; I just didn't like someone accusing me of skewing numbers etc when that wasn't the case. Simple misunderstanding and I'm glad it's been cleared up.
aboytervigon wrote:Meh, we don't need destroyers now and also there cheap enough to be run in small 3 man suicide squads.
I think that pretty much sums it up and makes the destroyer debate a moot point. They used to be our only option for strong fire support. This is no longer the case. Plus, seeing as how they compete for the fast slot against scarabs and wraiths; which both seem to be extremely useful now... is there really any purpose for a regular destroyer group instead of a heavy group?
Unless they get Relentless SR or are Jetpack JI then they will have problems moving and shooting Heavy Weapons, at least when they were classed as Jetbikes they had the Relentless SR.
They are both assault weapons now.
Ooopss guess I should read up before posting
Thanks for the heads up Sasori
So now you can shoot your weapon and assault to reap the benefit of having preferred enemy. Brilliant.
Sasori wrote:Your posts were not comparing the Old vs New Destroyers. People were specifically comparing the old vs new guns. So Yes, comparing the squad size in that instance is not relevant. If you want to compare Old Destroyers vs New destroyers then the squad size is relevant. The posts I were reading, were just about if the Guns are better or not.
My posts were intended to compare the units, not the weapons. I apologize for not making that more clear; I just didn't like someone accusing me of skewing numbers etc when that wasn't the case. Simple misunderstanding and I'm glad it's been cleared up.
Not a problem, it's easy to misinterpret that stuff over the internet. My fault is well. I see a lot of people try to do shenanigans with comparisons, and I just assumed it was being done again. Well, you know what they say about assuming.
I think the main point is though, Between Wraiths and Scarabs, how often are Destroyers even going to be taken? Perhaps if Preferred enemy applies to ranged weapons in Sixth, but even then it seems like our other two FA choices are just too good to pass up.
The biggest problem with this codex is the fact that IT CANNOT SURVIVE CLOSE COMBAT UNITS!
THERES NO WAY AROUND I2....Dark Eldar Incubi will have a field day with you, sanguinary guard and the lot of everything else space marine, hell even IG will stomp on your metal skulls before you can even raise a finger.
For those who argue this is a fluffy change for the army, bs...because only the lower level necrons are supposed to be automatons, Lords/lych/praetorian/wraiths are all supposed to have more semblence of who they are, and the lords are supposed to be masters of combat, not slow ass half witted morons!
For those who argue their bodies are slow...take a minute to think about that, they have the best technology in the whole universe for many centuries and have no way to make light metals that are alive?
Theres no way around this I 2 which makes taking any close combat units we may have useless....They will be down before blows are stuck back.
This is another of Wards piss poor rule writing strategies "I cant have anything be as strong as a muhreen, I suck **** for ultramarines"
Sasori wrote:Your posts were not comparing the Old vs New Destroyers. People were specifically comparing the old vs new guns. So Yes, comparing the squad size in that instance is not relevant. If you want to compare Old Destroyers vs New destroyers then the squad size is relevant. The posts I were reading, were just about if the Guns are better or not.
My posts were intended to compare the units, not the weapons. I apologize for not making that more clear; I just didn't like someone accusing me of skewing numbers etc when that wasn't the case. Simple misunderstanding and I'm glad it's been cleared up.
Not a problem, it's easy to misinterpret that stuff over the internet. My fault is well. I see a lot of people try to do shenanigans with comparisons, and I just assumed it was being done again. Well, you know what they say about assuming.
I think the main point is though, Between Wraiths and Scarabs, how often are Destroyers even going to be taken? Perhaps if Preferred enemy applies to ranged weapons in Sixth, but even then it seems like our other two FA choices are just too good to pass up.
Having played a game using scarabs with the new rules, even using cover, it is harder to get them up the battlefield, since you can't turbo boost for the 3+ cover save anymore, and, to my knowledge, have to use their 5+/5+RP. Also, if they stay at WS 2 and STR 3, they will only be useful against vehicles and will quickly disappear in cc with anything, even kroot.
3rd Ed. Heavy destroyers @65 points apiece carry a s9 ap2 heavy 1 gun.
5th Ed. Heavy D's are @60 points apiece, and carry a s9 ap2 assault 1 gun.
Max squad size for both is/was 3 models. So that hasn't changed. They both move 12" max and fire in the same turn. the new ones can't turbo-boost. However with potential changes to Preferred Enemy in 6th edition, the new ones are basically coming with twin-linked lascannons.
The biggest problem with this codex is the fact that IT CANNOT SURVIVE CLOSE COMBAT UNITS!
THERES NO WAY AROUND I2....Dark Eldar Incubi will have a field day with you, sanguinary guard and the lot of everything else space marine, hell even IG will stomp on your metal skulls before you can even raise a finger.
For those who argue this is a fluffy change for the army, bs...because only the lower level necrons are supposed to be automatons, Lords/lych/praetorian/wraiths are all supposed to have more semblence of who they are, and the lords are supposed to be masters of combat, not slow ass half witted morons!
For those who argue their bodies are slow...take a minute to think about that, they have the best technology in the whole universe for many centuries and have no way to make light metals that are alive?
Theres no way around this I 2 which makes taking any close combat units we may have useless....They will be down before blows are stuck back.
This is another of Wards piss poor rule writing strategies "I cant have anything be as strong as a muhreen, I suck **** for ultramarines"
Have you already read the codex?
Since what we know atm are just the first wave and since we don't even have the codex yet we don't know what stats/items and all the units will have.
But i do agree I 2 sucks for CC units and why would you use them? (instead use immortals/death marks or blast them from a distance whit the stormlord or doomsday)
The biggest problem with this codex is the fact that IT CANNOT SURVIVE CLOSE COMBAT UNITS!
THERES NO WAY AROUND I2....Dark Eldar Incubi will have a field day with you, sanguinary guard and the lot of everything else space marine, hell even IG will stomp on your metal skulls before you can even raise a finger.
For those who argue this is a fluffy change for the army, bs...because only the lower level necrons are supposed to be automatons, Lords/lych/praetorian/wraiths are all supposed to have more semblence of who they are, and the lords are supposed to be masters of combat, not slow ass half witted morons!
For those who argue their bodies are slow...take a minute to think about that, they have the best technology in the whole universe for many centuries and have no way to make light metals that are alive?
Theres no way around this I 2 which makes taking any close combat units we may have useless....They will be down before blows are stuck back.
This is another of Wards piss poor rule writing strategies "I cant have anything be as strong as a muhreen, I suck **** for ultramarines"
Oh hai random non-sequitur hater. I was wondering when your ilk will show up.
And the lords do have a semblance of who they were. Learn to read
The biggest problem with this codex is the fact that IT CANNOT SURVIVE CLOSE COMBAT UNITS!
Yes, CC will still be a weakness of the necrons, but I am fine with that. If I wanted to have an allround army, I would just play MEQ like most players do...the same boring faction most people already play. Most likely even GK...when you start being cheesy, why not going for the maximum cheese?
I like the fact that the necrons still remain a very shooty army with a lot of special tricks up their sleeves, especially now with HQ units such as the storm lord. Furthermore, CC is a lot better than it used to be with new units and even old ones such as the wraiths getting a significant buff (yes, I2 now, but take their coils and...here you go!). FO have always been bad and will remain being bad but on top of that, the new ones look terrible and are the most overpriced unit in the entire codex. But then again, why take FO when you have so many new, better elite choices, especially for CC?
Concerning destroyers...I might still take a squad in our friendlies as most of them play MEQ and I just want those annoying 3+ to be gone...especially since I lack immortals and normal warriors just do not cut it against normal marines.
The biggest problem with this codex is the fact that IT CANNOT SURVIVE CLOSE COMBAT UNITS!
THERES NO WAY AROUND I2....Dark Eldar Incubi will have a field day with you, sanguinary guard and the lot of everything else space marine, hell even IG will stomp on your metal skulls before you can even raise a finger.
For those who argue this is a fluffy change for the army, bs...because only the lower level necrons are supposed to be automatons, Lords/lych/praetorian/wraiths are all supposed to have more semblence of who they are, and the lords are supposed to be masters of combat, not slow ass half witted morons!
For those who argue their bodies are slow...take a minute to think about that, they have the best technology in the whole universe for many centuries and have no way to make light metals that are alive?
Theres no way around this I 2 which makes taking any close combat units we may have useless....They will be down before blows are stuck back.
This is another of Wards piss poor rule writing strategies "I cant have anything be as strong as a muhreen, I suck **** for ultramarines"
Oh, how original. When you are old enough to shave, then you may understand that you don't have to follow the sheep.
No you are right I have not seen the new codex yet, also I have been posting in this thread for a while.
So no, I am not random.
I just rage when I see 45 point models with no justification for their cost and what they are intended to do.
I just hope there is something that CC units can take that makes them higher than I 2 or at least strike simultaneously.
Also I play non MEQ armies mostly Xenos, Dark Eldar is my second army, and I have been shaving for years lol.
I just love close combat, and I can see the faults or kinks in our armor and having played Incubi and knowing how fast they tear through Termies means that they will surely tear through us.
Evegoden wrote:No you are right I have not seen the new codex yet, also I have been posting in this thread for a while.
So no, I am not random.
I just rage when I see 45 point models with no justification for their cost and what they are intended to do.
I just hope there is something that CC units can take that makes them higher than I 2 or at least strike simultaneously.
The Low I doesn't really matter... they have T5 or invul saves with Resurrection Protocols. Hitting before them isn't the challenge; it's actually wounding them.
Evegoden wrote:No you are right I have not seen the new codex yet, also I have been posting in this thread for a while.
So no, I am not random.
I just rage when I see 45 point models with no justification for their cost and what they are intended to do.
I just hope there is something that CC units can take that makes them higher than I 2 or at least strike simultaneously.
You should try looking at the statline of the new wraiths; as well as the wargear they can take. There's your cc answer.
Or, bury people with scarabs. Even against assault units that can rip through them, a group of 10 supported by tomb spyders adding models to the unit will keep enemies tied up for a long time
I think the main point is though, Between Wraiths and Scarabs, how often are Destroyers even going to be taken? Perhaps if Preferred enemy applies to ranged weapons in Sixth, but even then it seems like our other two FA choices are just too good to pass up.
Not to mention tomb blades that are 1-5, jetbikes and twin linked, this alone makes destroyers worthless (heavies still have a use in some lists but even then the other options are better imo)
Sasori wrote:Your posts were not comparing the Old vs New Destroyers. People were specifically comparing the old vs new guns. So Yes, comparing the squad size in that instance is not relevant. If you want to compare Old Destroyers vs New destroyers then the squad size is relevant. The posts I were reading, were just about if the Guns are better or not.
My posts were intended to compare the units, not the weapons. I apologize for not making that more clear; I just didn't like someone accusing me of skewing numbers etc when that wasn't the case. Simple misunderstanding and I'm glad it's been cleared up.
Not a problem, it's easy to misinterpret that stuff over the internet. My fault is well. I see a lot of people try to do shenanigans with comparisons, and I just assumed it was being done again. Well, you know what they say about assuming.
I think the main point is though, Between Wraiths and Scarabs, how often are Destroyers even going to be taken? Perhaps if Preferred enemy applies to ranged weapons in Sixth, but even then it seems like our other two FA choices are just too good to pass up.
Having played a game using scarabs with the new rules, even using cover, it is harder to get them up the battlefield, since you can't turbo boost for the 3+ cover save anymore, and, to my knowledge, have to use their 5+/5+RP. Also, if they stay at WS 2 and STR 3, they will only be useful against vehicles and will quickly disappear in cc with anything, even kroot.
I'm surprised you had such an issue, even with kroot. A Scarab is hitting anything with WS 4 and below on a 4 still, and has 4 attacks on the charge per base. Even with Strength 3, they should still cause enough attacks/wounds from a swarm of them to inflict a mass amount of casualties. If you had ten bases, that's 40 attacks on the charge, and should cause a lot of damage.
You remembered they are beasts now right? They have Fleet and a 12' assault. In addition, they still have the stealth rule, so should be able to get a 3+ cover save early on, depending on the board.
Either way, to me it seems like their priority targets are still vehicles. Sending them against infantry seems like a waste of their usefulness.
omerakk wrote:As long as those marines are running around out in the open, it's an improvement. If they are getting any kind of cover, the guns are worse.
A 4+ cover save is still worse than a 3+ save.
And 15 shots going into a squad is better than 6.
Squads are only 3 now, so you would be saying that 9 Shots is better than six, if you are just comparing the qualities of the new weapon.
Someone can do the mathhammer, but I think the 6 shots at AP3 is much better than the 9 Shots for killing marines.
EDIT: Totally Ninja'd
MATH HAMMER!
This is based on shooting against MEQs, as they comprise half of the existing armies, and most competitive armies.
Old Destroyers (full squad)
5x Destroyers = 15 shots
15 shots @ BS 4 = 10 hits
10 hits @ Str 6 vs. Str 4 = 8.33 wounds
8.33 wounds vs. 3+ armour save = 5.58 unsaved wounds
if FNP aplies...
5.58 wounds vs. 4+ FNP = 2.79 dead marines
Old Destroyers (comparative squad)
3x Destroyers = 9 shots
9 shots @ BS 4 = 6 hits
6 hits @ Str 6 vs. Str 4 = 4 wounds
4 wounds vs. 3+ armour save = 2.67 unsaved wounds
if FNP applies...
2.67 unsaved wounds vs. 4+ FNP = 1.34 dead marines
New Destroyers
3x Destroyers = 6 shots
6 shots @ BS 4 = 4 hits
4 hits @ Str 6 vs Str 4 = 3.33 dead marines
Verdict: the new Destroyer guns are significantly better per unit (0.67 unsaved sounds per squad size, 0.54 dead marines wihtout FNP, per shooting phase) against troops. However, as the AP has no effect here on AV, it is reasonable to say that the new Destroyer guns are significantly reduced against tanks simply because of the 33% reduction in shots per model.
So, if you used your Destroyer wings as AT, then you should be very angry. However, if you're like me and used them almost exclusively as anti-troop units, then this is awesome. (I play against BA, SW and Vanilla Marines a lot)
Let's look at this against 15 Longfangs:
9 Necron Destroyers shoot into 15 Longfangs, killing 10.
5 Longfangs shoot into 9 Destroyers, killing 3.
6 Destroyers shoot into 5 Longfangs, killing 5.
6 Destroyers fist-bump, turn their attention to the next unit of squishy marines.
Now, I'm very, very angry about the squad size reduction (still hoping it's incorrect) but I'm elated about the increase to AP3, which is exactly what I always wanted the Necrons to have outside of the one-shot per turn deals like the Monolith's Particle Whip.
The biggest problem with this codex is the fact that IT CANNOT SURVIVE CLOSE COMBAT UNITS!
THERES NO WAY AROUND I2....Dark Eldar Incubi will have a field day with you, sanguinary guard and the lot of everything else space marine, hell even IG will stomp on your metal skulls before you can even raise a finger.
For those who argue this is a fluffy change for the army, bs...because only the lower level necrons are supposed to be automatons, Lords/lych/praetorian/wraiths are all supposed to have more semblence of who they are, and the lords are supposed to be masters of combat, not slow ass half witted morons!
For those who argue their bodies are slow...take a minute to think about that, they have the best technology in the whole universe for many centuries and have no way to make light metals that are alive?
Theres no way around this I 2 which makes taking any close combat units we may have useless....They will be down before blows are stuck back.
This is another of Wards piss poor rule writing strategies "I cant have anything be as strong as a muhreen, I suck **** for ultramarines"
CC has always been a problem for Necrons, this isn't a new thing. having units above I2 hasn't really been stopping us from getting swept and denied WBB rolls. most of the new CC options are for counter-assault, and you can take some whip coils on Wraiths to go before everyone else in the combat that you touch.
and if, when the new codex drops, you're incapable of stopping CC units from getting to you with the massive amount of long ranged unfriendliness therein then that's not the fault of the Codex... it's not like all of our units just sit there with "come hither" expressions, doing nothing while the enemy drives up to them.
Evegoden wrote:You see this info wouldve been nice before.
I was under the impression that lych were also 45points...per model heck even 40 points a model is bad.
Why exactly would that be bad? 3+/4++/5(4)+++ (RP), power weapon, potential bullet reflection, good stat line...not the best, I agree, but bad? No.
Evegoden wrote:You see this info wouldve been nice before.
I was under the impression that lych were also 45points...per model heck even 40 points a model is bad.
I didn't know the whips did that either....things are looking less meh.
I mostly got pissed cause I already spent 400$ on new models cause necrons are my home team ever since I started 8 years ago.
I highly recommend reading up first before coming into a thread, blindly raging on stuff just to withdraw your statement a few posts later...saves trouble both for you and us
I think the main point is though, Between Wraiths and Scarabs, how often are Destroyers even going to be taken? Perhaps if Preferred enemy applies to ranged weapons in Sixth, but even then it seems like our other two FA choices are just too good to pass up.
tbh i will be fielding 9 destroyers, if i want cc, i will put some courts in to bash, toghether with a ctan
Sasori wrote:Your posts were not comparing the Old vs New Destroyers. People were specifically comparing the old vs new guns. So Yes, comparing the squad size in that instance is not relevant. If you want to compare Old Destroyers vs New destroyers then the squad size is relevant. The posts I were reading, were just about if the Guns are better or not.
My posts were intended to compare the units, not the weapons. I apologize for not making that more clear; I just didn't like someone accusing me of skewing numbers etc when that wasn't the case. Simple misunderstanding and I'm glad it's been cleared up.
Not a problem, it's easy to misinterpret that stuff over the internet. My fault is well. I see a lot of people try to do shenanigans with comparisons, and I just assumed it was being done again. Well, you know what they say about assuming.
I think the main point is though, Between Wraiths and Scarabs, how often are Destroyers even going to be taken? Perhaps if Preferred enemy applies to ranged weapons in Sixth, but even then it seems like our other two FA choices are just too good to pass up.
Having played a game using scarabs with the new rules, even using cover, it is harder to get them up the battlefield, since you can't turbo boost for the 3+ cover save anymore, and, to my knowledge, have to use their 5+/5+RP. Also, if they stay at WS 2 and STR 3, they will only be useful against vehicles and will quickly disappear in cc with anything, even kroot.
I'm surprised you had such an issue, even with kroot. A Scarab is hitting anything with WS 4 and below on a 4 still, and has 4 attacks on the charge per base. Even with Strength 3, they should still cause enough attacks/wounds from a swarm of them to inflict a mass amount of casualties. If you had ten bases, that's 40 attacks on the charge, and should cause a lot of damage.
You remembered they are beasts now right? They have Fleet and a 12' assault. In addition, they still have the stealth rule, so should be able to get a 3+ cover save early on, depending on the board.
Either way, to me it seems like their priority targets are still vehicles. Sending them against infantry seems like a waste of their usefulness.
I was also rolling nothing but 1's and 2's, except when my immortals shot with the teslas where out of 5 dice I got 4 6's, and my opponent made all of his armor saves. I was also using 5 in a squad, making my chance to do something decrease by 50%, as well as was rolling 1's and 2's while running with fleet, having to trek 3 feet across the table... Not to mention the board had randomly placed terrain that left the middle a no terrain wasteland. Luck just wasn't on my side. By my point still stands, the wraiths will be our anti-infantry while the scarabs will be anti-vehicle. Sure you could use one for the other purpose, it will just be better at the other task.
Evegoden wrote:You see this info wouldve been nice before.
I was under the impression that lych were also 45points...per model heck even 40 points a model is bad.
I didn't know the whips did that either....things are looking less meh.
I mostly got pissed cause I already spent 400$ on new models cause necrons are my home team ever since I started 8 years ago.
Alright, you really need to take a deep breath, because your posts are out of control, and are making you look silly and uninformed.
Let's look at the Lycheguard with Dispersion shields. for 45 points, these things have been mathhammered to show that they can beat, and are pretty much equal to TH/SS Termies. Do you consider TH/SS Termies to be worth 45 points? This isn't even counting if you throw a Rez orb in the squad, boosting their RP to a 4+, which puts them ahead in fight between the two.
Yes, I2 hurts. But with Additions like the Royal court being able to break off like Wolf Guard, and Vehicles like the Ghost Ark, you can really improve the CC potential of the Army. Crypteks are also able to take some nifty wargear to further augment various aspects of the army. Close Combat is a Weakness of the army, but now we have a ton of ways to deal with it, unlike before.
Do yourself a favor though, and relax and read the codex before you give yourself a stroke.
The problem with all the math hammering on old v new destroyers is you are comparing them only vs a unit the new ones are better at.
As a whole the old ones are better, since the new ones are only better v something with a 3+ save since have 1 more ap. Against vehicles and anything ap2 or ap4+ the old ones are better since they had 1 more shot each.
zacharia wrote:The problem with all the math hammering on old v new destroyers is you are comparing them only vs a unit the new ones are better at.
As a whole the old ones are better, since the new ones are only better v something with a 3+ save since have 1 more ap. Against vehicles and anything ap2 or ap4+ the old ones are better since they had 1 more shot each.
Yes, but with the new codex, we got a lot of new tools against vehicles, mainly the awesome scarabs thus destroyers aren't fully necessary anymore in order to bring vehicles down yet on the other hand, they are now better against the annoying, ever-present MEQ 3+ saves.
I'm thinking of fielding this list to try out some stuff. 1850 points.
Stormlord, Overlord w/ rez orb, 2 Harbingers of Destruction, 2 Harbingers of Despair, 3 x5 immortals with Gauss, x10 scarabs, x6 wraiths with coil, x5 lychguard with shields, x5 deathmarks, monolith, and annihilation barge
zacharia wrote:The problem with all the math hammering on old v new destroyers is you are comparing them only vs a unit the new ones are better at.
As a whole the old ones are better, since the new ones are only better v something with a 3+ save since have 1 more ap. Against vehicles and anything ap2 or ap4+ the old ones are better since they had 1 more shot each.
Yes, but with the new codex, we got a lot of new tools against vehicles, mainly the awesome scarabs thus destroyers aren't fully necessary anymore in order to bring vehicles down yet on the other hand, they are now better against the annoying, ever-present MEQ 3+ saves.
Thats irrelevant. You cant compare old v new on something that new are better at (the only thing they are at that) and conclude that new are better. All it is showing is new are better at 3+ saves, which is obvious. Overall old are better, which is also obvious.
zacharia wrote:The problem with all the math hammering on old v new destroyers is you are comparing them only vs a unit the new ones are better at.
As a whole the old ones are better, since the new ones are only better v something with a 3+ save since have 1 more ap. Against vehicles and anything ap2 or ap4+ the old ones are better since they had 1 more shot each.
Yes, but with the new codex, we got a lot of new tools against vehicles, mainly the awesome scarabs thus destroyers aren't fully necessary anymore in order to bring vehicles down yet on the other hand, they are now better against the annoying, ever-present MEQ 3+ saves.
Thats irrelevant. You cant compare old v new on something that new are better at (the only thing they are at that) and conclude that new are better. All it is showing is new are better at 3+ saves, which is obvious. Overall old are better, which is also obvious.
The old are also made obsolete due to the plethora of better anti-tank that is now available.
Forgot to add the "/sarcasm" at the end. gonna go put that up there now.
Edit:
And Done. Basically, they gave the Destroyer a new role, so people will go out and buy other units. "Everyone already has a million destroyers, lets make wraiths better so people will buy a million of those." I honestly think they are better, but I'd still rather 5 in a max squad then 3.
I really want to make a Army Based around The Imotehk guy! His ability seems so freaking cool.
So if I get stuck in a really bad spot. Like lets say a weird ass deployment and night fighting turn one for the mission rules and end up with my opponent really super close to me on turn one.
Good by Night Fighting. Pow.Pow POW! And back to normal with me blasting you with freaking lightning all game long lol.
Models look amazing and much better than the old ones. Except the "Original" metal necron warriors will always be the coolest!
They got a little bit of an Egyptian feel to them "Tomb Kings"
But its better than the freaking Sci Fi B movie Terminator look.
Seriously. Spot one difference between Terminator and Necrons. There isn't. They look exactly the same. At least now they are for the most part. Far more Unique, Flavorful and will provide a lot more challenge and entertainment painting than slathering on silver paint and some gold over black undercoat!
Now we actually get to "paint" something rather than give it a base coat with a highlight and be done with it.
I think squad size of 3 is GW's way of limiting them, I mean 30 Strength 6 Ap 3 shots could destroy A lot of MEQ first turn, add a few AT in there and it could potentialy kill a whole Army turn 1.
Thats irrelevant. You cant compare old v new on something that new are better at (the only thing they are at that) and conclude that new are better. All it is showing is new are better at 3+ saves, which is obvious. Overall old are better, which is also obvious.
I disagree. Whenever I have a look at an army, I need to have a look at the army as a whole. Each unit in an army is supposed to fulfill a certain role and if one unit does the same job better than another unit while being comparable cost-wise, there is no reason to take another one. With the new codex, why would I want to take the old destroyers, now that I have better units to do the very same job? The new scarabs are awesome anti AV units and work well with my other units, so why would I spend points on taking destroyers now that I have a lot more choices in other slots?
MEQ is the standard army in 40k and the more we have to counter these guys, the better it gets. 3+ saves are extremely annoying. Sure, it's hard to see an old unit getting a new role as it requires thinking different or using them in a different way, but I don't consider the new destroyers weaker in any way, they have simply changed their respective roles. Not worse, just different.
aboytervigon wrote:I think squad size of 3 is GW's way of limiting them, I mean 30 Strength 6 Ap 3 shots could destroy A lot of MEQ first turn, add a few AT in there and it could potentialy kill a whole Army turn 1.
If they had that, I'd love to have W1 T1 and I1 in the whole army. Sure I'd die if so much as a snotling coughed at me, but if I let a snotling cough then I wasn't playing right. Honestly, I wouldn't want that, and now that you point that out I understand the limit to 3, but I'm going to stick to my standpoint of wanting 5 in a squad, not because of my stubborness, which is playing a huge roll by the way, but becuase i own 15 destroyers.
aboytervigon wrote:I think squad size of 3 is GW's way of limiting them, I mean 30 Strength 6 Ap 3 shots could destroy A lot of MEQ first turn, add a few AT in there and it could potentialy kill a whole Army turn 1.
Over exagerating like that doesnt help make it more convincing, 30 shots (shots, not even hits or wounds) and a 'few' AT to kill an entire army in 1 turn? id love to see some mathhammer show that...
kk I was refering to GK when I said potentially also Potentially a single paladin with Daemonhammer could kill an entire army, unlikely yes, impossible no.
zacharia wrote:The problem with all the math hammering on old v new destroyers is you are comparing them only vs a unit the new ones are better at.
The problem with mathhammering anything at all is that you find out that your army will most likely win against any army possible and then you go to a tournament and roll lots of ones.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:Does a Destroyer Lord allow you to take a Court, or just 'true' Overlords?
Are you sure about that? In the OP and on a few other occasions, Yak stated that Destroyer Lords are Overlords, not regular lords, thus a Destroyer lord would allow you to field a Royal Court. In the new codex, regular lords no longer have the option to take a destroyer body.
Quoted from the OP:
• Destroyer Lord: Basically the same as an Overlord but with Preferred Eenemy against everything (Destroyers now hate everybody). Has a few less wargear options as well, but can still take a Rez Orb (for example).
The Royal Court does not take up a HQ slot but may only be taken one per each Overlord (including the named ones) you take in the army.
I'm happy about some things, but Im not seeing lots of dakka. Im seeing potential dakka, but you need a 6 for it to result in extra auto hits. When the dex arrives we'll see how much dakka there really is. Are you referring to the point reduction of the old units? This army definitely has a shambling horde field like it should have had from the old fluff
I'm happy about some things, but Im not seeing lots of dakka. Im seeing potential dakka, but you need a 6 for it to result in extra auto hits. When the dex arrives we'll see how much dakka there really is. Are you referring to the point reduction of the old units? This army definitely has a shambling horde field like it should have had from the old fluff
Well, you could have 4 arks equipped with 10 warriors each, thus they move in RF range and you get 80 shots plus 4x5 shots by the ark itself. Potentially. Spread among different units.
I used to play Necrons so long ago that I even have models from 2nd ed kicking around. Unfortunately I sold most of them a while back. Now these lovely new models come out and they cost £20 for five? GW price hikes are nothing new but this is too far for me I think. Looks like my attachment to Necrons is at an end :(
Lokas wrote:Is there any word on whether or not the quantum shielding will ignore the lance rule?
God I wish it did.
The codex WD entries make no specific mention of lance weapons. They say:
WD #382 wrote: QUANTUM SHIELDING: Until a vehicle suffers a penetrating hit, it counts all Armour Values on its front and side facings as being 2 points higher. Once a penetrating hit has been scored it can no longer use the quantum shielding.
So depending on which rule takes precedence, or unless the codex adds a stipulation for lance weaponry towards QS, it looks like our boats will count as AV12 vs our Eldar and DE opponents. <--- that makes sense considering the ages-old feud between the races, though. Eldar and Necrons are sworn enemies ever since the Old Ones were around.
Its a complicated situation I think (and I'm an Eldar player). Lance kicks in as a response to the QS which brings it down to 12, but at the same time while it exists, you still count the AV as being 2 points higher... does that mean that you magically end up with an AV14? Obviously, from an RAI standpoint its a no, but from a RAW standpoint its a mess.
It would be a pretty hard counter to DE and Eldar if it did nullify Lance. Considering most of our AT is strength 8, only 6's would penetrate. With how Necrons will be able to field loads of vehicles now (although I suspect to a lesser extent than razor spam or skimmer spam) It would be real rough on a DE army to combat a mechanized Necron army. Eldar might have an easier time with Fire Dragons, but ah well.
Pure conjecture at this point. I was just curious.
I wouldn't worry too much about it, Necron vehicles are like what 100 points base at the cheapest? You're not going to be seeing very many of them on the table.
So a monolith with quantum shielding would be at AV16 or is 14 the highest AV possible
Monoliths dont have QS.
yakface wrote:
Personally I think I'd try to use Warrior models and modify them to hold converted Lychguard or Praetorian weapons and probably try to green stuff a cloak onto them to make totally custom Cryptek models.
I was thinking of just using converted Lychguard for my Lords and Crypteks. They look like they are mini-overlords anyway, so why not?
BaronIveagh wrote:.... is it just me or are the necrons an inversion of the usual attempts by GW to make 40k look LESS like their WHF equivalents? Because these new Necrons look MORE like Tomb Kings than before...
Been thinking this the entire time myself.
According to Yak, the model is "removed as a casualty" thus no saves would be allowed. Then again, I wonder how useful this ability turns out to be...the chance of the enemy model blowing up is pretty low and you'd have to always keep the C'Tan near your vehicles, most likely the monolith. A babysitting C'Tan (shard)? That's about 250 points sitting next to 200 points...hmmm.
Yes, but consider how common those weapons are on the battlefield now. I think almost every tournament list has a minimum of 20 weapons that will be effected by this rule, 20 weapons over 6 turns is a lot of opportunity for death.
Its a complicated situation I think (and I'm an Eldar player). Lance kicks in as a response to the QS which brings it down to 12, but at the same time while it exists, you still count the AV as being 2 points higher... does that mean that you magically end up with an AV14? Obviously, from an RAI standpoint its a no, but from a RAW standpoint its a mess.
Not really. The rule just increases the base AV by 2, bringing it up to 13. The lance doesn't change the base AV, it just lowers it down to 12 for the purposes of penetration.
zacharia wrote:The problem with all the math hammering on old v new destroyers is you are comparing them only vs a unit the new ones are better at.
As a whole the old ones are better, since the new ones are only better v something with a 3+ save since have 1 more ap. Against vehicles and anything ap2 or ap4+ the old ones are better since they had 1 more shot each.
Your argument only really applies in a practical setting if you are completely wasting your Destroyers as a resource. Immortals are Troops now, and they have regular guns with AP4. If you need your Destroyers to kill Firewarriors or Kroot or Hormagaunts, you are doing something very wasteful. However, for all those pesky Marines with a 3+ Armour Save, well, the new Destroyers mow them down by the squad. Like I mathhammer'd a page or so back, a 3-man squad of Destroyers will take out 3-4 Marines every round of shooting, while having guns that have better range than the Marines, and the Destroyers have movement that is either greater than or equals the Marines. And This should be the most relevent example, because half of all the armies are MEQs. And Competitively, most of the armies are MEQs.
FalkorsRaiders wrote:
aboytervigon wrote:I think squad size of 3 is GW's way of limiting them, I mean 30 Strength 6 Ap 3 shots could destroy A lot of MEQ first turn, add a few AT in there and it could potentialy kill a whole Army turn 1.
If they had that, I'd love to have W1 T1 and I1 in the whole army. Sure I'd die if so much as a snotling coughed at me, but if I let a snotling cough then I wasn't playing right. Honestly, I wouldn't want that, and now that you point that out I understand the limit to 3, but I'm going to stick to my standpoint of wanting 5 in a squad, not because of my stubborness, which is playing a huge roll by the way, but becuase i own 15 destroyers.
I'm with you 100%. I used to field 15 Destroyers and 3 Heavy Destroyers. With regards to the new squad size, I am not a happy man. However, I begrudgingly acknowledge why the new squad size had to change, considering 15 Destroyers would wipe out 17 Marines per shooting phase. Imagine that.
Turn 1: pop transports.
Turn 2: wipe out 60% of opposing troops.
Turn 3: dance
zacharia wrote:The problem with all the math hammering on old v new destroyers is you are comparing them only vs a unit the new ones are better at.
As a whole the old ones are better, since the new ones are only better v something with a 3+ save since have 1 more ap. Against vehicles and anything ap2 or ap4+ the old ones are better since they had 1 more shot each.
Your argument only really applies in a practical setting if you are completely wasting your Destroyers as a resource. Immortals are Troops now, and they have regular guns with AP4. If you need your Destroyers to kill Firewarriors or Kroot or Hormagaunts, you are doing something very wasteful. However, for all those pesky Marines with a 3+ Armour Save, well, the new Destroyers mow them down by the squad. Like I mathhammer'd a page or so back, a 3-man squad of Destroyers will take out 3-4 Marines every round of shooting, while having guns that have better range than the Marines, and the Destroyers have movement that is either greater than or equals the Marines. And This should be the most relevent example, because half of all the armies are MEQs. And Competitively, most of the armies are MEQs.
FalkorsRaiders wrote:
aboytervigon wrote:I think squad size of 3 is GW's way of limiting them, I mean 30 Strength 6 Ap 3 shots could destroy A lot of MEQ first turn, add a few AT in there and it could potentialy kill a whole Army turn 1.
If they had that, I'd love to have W1 T1 and I1 in the whole army. Sure I'd die if so much as a snotling coughed at me, but if I let a snotling cough then I wasn't playing right. Honestly, I wouldn't want that, and now that you point that out I understand the limit to 3, but I'm going to stick to my standpoint of wanting 5 in a squad, not because of my stubborness, which is playing a huge roll by the way, but becuase i own 15 destroyers.
I'm with you 100%. I used to field 15 Destroyers and 3 Heavy Destroyers. With regards to the new squad size, I am not a happy man. However, I begrudgingly acknowledge why the new squad size had to change, considering 15 Destroyers would wipe out 17 Marines per shooting phase. Imagine that.
Turn 1: pop transports.
Turn 2: wipe out 60% of opposing troops.
Turn 3: dance
These are the same single-wound, 50 pt. models that were easily annihilated by ML fire on the first turn, right?
aboytervigon wrote:I think squad size of 3 is GW's way of limiting them, I mean 30 Strength 6 Ap 3 shots could destroy A lot of MEQ first turn, add a few AT in there and it could potentialy kill a whole Army turn 1.
If they had that, I'd love to have W1 T1 and I1 in the whole army. Sure I'd die if so much as a snotling coughed at me, but if I let a snotling cough then I wasn't playing right. Honestly, I wouldn't want that, and now that you point that out I understand the limit to 3, but I'm going to stick to my standpoint of wanting 5 in a squad, not because of my stubborness, which is playing a huge roll by the way, but becuase i own 15 destroyers.
I'm with you 100%. I used to field 15 Destroyers and 3 Heavy Destroyers. With regards to the new squad size, I am not a happy man. However, I begrudgingly acknowledge why the new squad size had to change, considering 15 Destroyers would wipe out 17 Marines per shooting phase. Imagine that.
Turn 1: pop transports.
Turn 2: wipe out 60% of opposing troops.
Turn 3: dance
In return from the MEQ Turn 1: cry about losing transport
Turn 2: cry about losing troops
Turn 3: ask why you are dancing when they have you in assault with what little they have left.
Turn 4: What do you mean they don't have Phase Out anymore?
Turn 5: Crying to Matt Ward about needing better stuff
Turn 6: They win.
aboytervigon wrote:I think squad size of 3 is GW's way of limiting them, I mean 30 Strength 6 Ap 3 shots could destroy A lot of MEQ first turn, add a few AT in there and it could potentialy kill a whole Army turn 1.
If they had that, I'd love to have W1 T1 and I1 in the whole army. Sure I'd die if so much as a snotling coughed at me, but if I let a snotling cough then I wasn't playing right. Honestly, I wouldn't want that, and now that you point that out I understand the limit to 3, but I'm going to stick to my standpoint of wanting 5 in a squad, not because of my stubborness, which is playing a huge roll by the way, but becuase i own 15 destroyers.
I'm with you 100%. I used to field 15 Destroyers and 3 Heavy Destroyers. With regards to the new squad size, I am not a happy man. However, I begrudgingly acknowledge why the new squad size had to change, considering 15 Destroyers would wipe out 17 Marines per shooting phase. Imagine that.
Turn 1: pop transports.
Turn 2: wipe out 60% of opposing troops.
Turn 3: dance
In return from the MEQ Turn 1: cry about losing transport
Turn 2: cry about losing troops
Turn 3: ask why you are dancing when they have you in assault with what little they have left.
Turn 4: stuff gets back up
Turn 5: new CC stuff that you will always take one of assaults.
Turn 6: you win.
aboytervigon wrote:We have anti-hoard and anti-mech now, thus the destroyer is irrelevant in both those jobs.
Edit: ninja'd plus he used plethora so he is obviously superior.
Negative. Marines are not horde, and their troops are not mech. Destroyers are relevant at some of the most important job titles of all:
Killing Death Company
Killing Longfangs
Killing Marine Scoring Units
Killing Marine Bikes
Killing Priests
Killing Tau Battlesuits <-- this can also be interpreted as the heading: Making Tau Completely Harmless
Killing Trygons
Killing Carnifexes <-- Nidzilla really doesn't have much punch against Necrons now
Killing Incubi
aboytervigon wrote:I think squad size of 3 is GW's way of limiting them, I mean 30 Strength 6 Ap 3 shots could destroy A lot of MEQ first turn, add a few AT in there and it could potentialy kill a whole Army turn 1.
If they had that, I'd love to have W1 T1 and I1 in the whole army. Sure I'd die if so much as a snotling coughed at me, but if I let a snotling cough then I wasn't playing right. Honestly, I wouldn't want that, and now that you point that out I understand the limit to 3, but I'm going to stick to my standpoint of wanting 5 in a squad, not because of my stubborness, which is playing a huge roll by the way, but becuase i own 15 destroyers.
I'm with you 100%. I used to field 15 Destroyers and 3 Heavy Destroyers. With regards to the new squad size, I am not a happy man. However, I begrudgingly acknowledge why the new squad size had to change, considering 15 Destroyers would wipe out 17 Marines per shooting phase. Imagine that.
Turn 1: pop transports.
Turn 2: wipe out 60% of opposing troops.
Turn 3: dance
In return from the MEQ Turn 1: cry about losing transport
Turn 2: cry about losing troops
Turn 3: ask why you are dancing when they have you in assault with what little they have left.
Turn 4: stuff gets back up
Turn 5: new CC stuff that you will always take one of assaults.
Turn 6: you win.
Fixed that for you
They win meant that you the necron player won, as in "they won and i lost", so other then turns 4-5, we are playing the same game. My problem was I fielded too many flayed ones and I almost lost because of it. Got any pointers so I don't have to worry about so many pyrovores killing my flayed ones?
They should have made three different types of destroyers. Light destroyers with the old gun, regular destroyers with new gun, and heavy destroyers. Then they could have made them different unit sizes and had the same old school destroyers work in the same numbers.
FalkorsRaiders wrote:In return from the MEQ Turn 1: cry about losing transport
Turn 2: cry about losing troops
Turn 3: ask why you are dancing when they have you in assault with what little they have left.
Turn 4: What do you mean they don't have Phase Out anymore?
Turn 5: Crying to Matt Ward about needing better stuff
Turn 6: They win.
The MEQs won't have anything to respond with until at least the Spring. JUST LET ME HAVE THIS, DAMMIT!
In all seriousness, I think having the option for smaller squad sizes will make all the difference in the world against Sweeping Advance. I mean, yeah, a 5-man squad may get swept by a marine or two, but then the 5-man squad right beside the dead crons get to open up with Rapid Fire and avenge their chrome buddies. Much better than having 50% of your troops get swept in one turn under the old Codex. And ya know what? Even if all of the troops get swept, I still don't have to figure out if the game just ended because of Phase Out or not!
Dave-c wrote:They should have made three different types of destroyers. Light destroyers with the old gun, regular destroyers with new gun, and heavy destroyers. Then they could have made them different unit sizes and had the same old school destroyers work in the same numbers.
You have to remember, that is a good idea. There is no room for good ideas except when talking about Marines in GW, only okay ideas are allowed for xenos, not good ideas.
FalkorsRaiders wrote:They win meant that you the necron player won, as in "they won and i lost", so other then turns 4-5, we are playing the same game. My problem was I fielded too many flayed ones and I almost lost because of it. Got any pointers so I don't have to worry about so many pyrovores killing my flayed ones?
My tried and true answer was always "take more Destroyers". However, I don't know if that'l work now. Hmmm... ah, yes! "Take more Immortals". 4+ saves don't stand much chance.
Also: why in the Warp are you taking Flayed Ones against Tyranids?
FalkorsRaiders wrote:They win meant that you the necron player won, as in "they won and i lost", so other then turns 4-5, we are playing the same game. My problem was I fielded too many flayed ones and I almost lost because of it. Got any pointers so I don't have to worry about so many pyrovores killing my flayed ones?
My tried and true answer was always "take more Destroyers". However, I don't know if that'l work now. Hmmm... ah, yes! "Take more Immortals". 4+ saves don't stand much chance.
Also: why in the Warp are you taking Flayed Ones against Tyranids?
In my opinion, and many other seem to share it, is that the Flayed ones are the most useless unit as of now, without looking at the codex. From what I've read, the pyrovore is also a very bad unit, so I was trying to make a joke. I'm beginning to find out my humor doesn't translate well. Better keep that in mind the next time I post /sarcasm.
Flayed Ones are a melee unit without power weapons, a 4+ / 5+++ (RP...not coming into play anyway since Sweeping Advance will most likely take care of them anyway) and I2...those guys are terrible CC units! Add in the fact that 5 of them cost 35€ and you got the most useless unit in the new codex, not to mention that they look terrible.
I'd rather take another warrior for the same price any time.
Sigvatr wrote:Flayed Ones are a melee unit without power weapons, a 4+ / 5+++ (RP...not coming into play anyway since Sweeping Advance will most likely take care of them anyway) and I2...those guys are terrible CC units! Add in the fact that 5 of them cost 35€ and you got the most useless unit in the new codex, not to mention that they look terrible.
I'd rather take another warrior for the same price any time.
Not to mention that they are an elite choice, meaning that they are effectively in the same category as Lychguards, C'tan, Praetorians and Stalkers.
Imo, they are worse than mandrakes. At least mandrakes get FNP and a nice ranged attack...after you kill something.
Sigvatr wrote:Flayed Ones are a melee unit without power weapons, a 4+ / 5+++ (RP...not coming into play anyway since Sweeping Advance will most likely take care of them anyway) and I2...those guys are terrible CC units! Add in the fact that 5 of them cost 35€ and you got the most useless unit in the new codex, not to mention that they look terrible.
I'd rather take another warrior for the same price any time.
Not to mention that they are an elite choice, meaning that they are effectively in the same category as Lychguards, C'tan, Praetorians and Stalkers.
Imo, they are worse than mandrakes. At least mandrakes get FNP and a nice ranged attack...after you kill something.
Indeed. and with the new models - which are just pants - there's no real reason to get them. I bought some Mandrakes, because I liked the sculpts/designs, and used them as the basis for my converted Wracks. The new Flayed Ones though...
Anyone got any ideas for converting models to Wraiths now that you can no longer order them directly from GW (at least in Germany, that is)? Neither ebay nor Wayland provide any useful results either...and I do not want to wait until wave 2 before I can get my hands on the (seemingly) new CC stars in the Necron army.
Sigvatr wrote:Anyone got any ideas for converting models to Wraiths now that you can no longer order them directly from GW (at least in Germany, that is)? Neither ebay nor Wayland provide any useful results either...and I do not want to wait until wave 2 before I can get my hands on the (seemingly) new CC stars in the Necron army.
I'm planning on using the Warriors from the Ghost/Doomsday Ark set. If you look, you'll see they have an extended spine thing going on, and a little green stuff, a little resculpting, voila! Wraiths, 10 of them.
Just went onto the GW website and looked at Necrons under the armies tab. there was a tab for dedicated transports. Oh, how things are changing. *sniff*
I'm planning on using the Warriors from the Ghost/Doomsday Ark set. If you look, you'll see they have an extended spine thing going on, and a little green stuff, a little resculpting, voila! Wraiths, 10 of them.
Good sir, that sounds like a brilliant idea to me...and an extremely cheap one too compared to the price you usually pay for a single Wraith. And the now missing Warriors on the Ark could simply be replaced by the Warrior models actually riding the transport. Genius, idea is much appreciated.
I'm planning on using the Warriors from the Ghost/Doomsday Ark set. If you look, you'll see they have an extended spine thing going on, and a little green stuff, a little resculpting, voila! Wraiths, 10 of them.
Good sir, that sounds like a brilliant idea to me...and an extremely cheap one too compared to the price you usually pay for a single Wraith. And the now missing Warriors on the Ark could simply be replaced by the Warrior models actually riding the transport. Genius, idea is much appreciated.
I like the idea. I will be able to fill out two squads that way since i currently own 2 wraiths.
I'm planning on using the Warriors from the Ghost/Doomsday Ark set. If you look, you'll see they have an extended spine thing going on, and a little green stuff, a little resculpting, voila! Wraiths, 10 of them.
Good sir, that sounds like a brilliant idea to me...and an extremely cheap one too compared to the price you usually pay for a single Wraith. And the now missing Warriors on the Ark could simply be replaced by the Warrior models actually riding the transport. Genius, idea is much appreciated.
I like the idea. I will be able to fill out two squads that way since i currently own 2 wraiths.
Sigvatr wrote:Anyone got any ideas for converting models to Wraiths now that you can no longer order them directly from GW (at least in Germany, that is)? Neither ebay nor Wayland provide any useful results either...and I do not want to wait until wave 2 before I can get my hands on the (seemingly) new CC stars in the Necron army.
I'm planning on using the Warriors from the Ghost/Doomsday Ark set. If you look, you'll see they have an extended spine thing going on, and a little green stuff, a little resculpting, voila! Wraiths, 10 of them.
Out of sheer curiosity, will you sculpt new shoulder blades on the Ghost Ark Warrior models with green stuff or will you try and kit-bash something together?
Amaya wrote:Has anyone converted any Tomb Blades or Night Scythes? Or done a concept art/mock up?
I'm hoping they follow a look sort of like the BFG ships, this guy in particular:
I hope they don't cop out and just do a simple crescent, that would make it so dull, particularly at the $60 it will probably cost.
I'm still in disbelief that the transport got paired with the tank and they decided that instead of averaging the two costs they'd charge you the higher one for both!
That's a kit I'll be avoiding if at all possible and hoping the sales suck so hard they bring it down.
Amaya wrote:Has anyone converted any Tomb Blades or Night Scythes? Or done a concept art/mock up?
I have seen some people taking their left over Destroyers and turning the body around so it is facing the rear of the hull. Tiny bit of greenstuff and they make convincing jet bike models for tomb blades. Since destroyers were suppose to be jet bikes when the model was made there really isnt much difference. As for night scythes most people don't seem to be talking about them at all. Model/fluff/rules/ anything. I bet most people forget it is even in the codex until someone posts about it.
Amaya wrote:Has anyone converted any Tomb Blades or Night Scythes? Or done a concept art/mock up?
I have seen some people taking their left over Destroyers and turning the body around so it is facing the rear of the hull. Tiny bit of greenstuff and they make convincing jet bike models for tomb blades. Since destroyers were suppose to be jet bikes when the model was made there really isnt much difference. As for night scythes most people don't seem to be talking about them at all. Model/fluff/rules/ anything. I bet most people forget it is even in the codex until someone posts about it.
Sorry, but that sounds like it would look like crap. i am picturing it in my mind as i have destroyers, and it just seems really off to me. I would rather swap some arms and weapons and then call them tomb blades.
GiantSlingshot wrote:I was looking through the WHFB stuff for C'tan shard conversions, and found this little tike.
He's like a baby Nightbringer. Especially when you give him the Necronny looking mask/skull on the left.
Maybe on a larger base with some rocks piled up on it, could be a cheap conversion.
edit: spelling
He's a bit small though, isn't he? Aren't shards meant to be massive?
Yeah, I'd have a bit of a hard time buying a slightly taller than mansized model as a MC.
What about combining him with the "tornado" bit from the WHFB kit that came out recently so he is sort of a djinn from the waist down? would give him some height/size...
Speaking of Ctan (and not being able to read back through this whole thread to find the info), has anyone looked at the C'tan page on GW and wounder WTF dose Lord of Fire mean? Making meltas and flamers EXPLODE sounds over powered, even by Ward standards...
Okay, updated master summary. PLEASE READ THIS ALL BEFORE ASKING QUESTIONS IN THIS THREAD! There is a LOT of information here that will probably answer your question.
NOTES ON NEW NECRON FLUFF
There is a dramatic change in the fluff in this codex from the previous incarnation of the Necrons. Read more about it here:
Spoiler:
The Necrontyr's empire was massive at one point, but the different Lords in the empire started to turn against each other in civil war. To prevent this from happening the overall ruler of the Necrons (the Silent King) started the war against the Old Ones specifically to give them a common enemy to fight against to prevent his empire from destroying itself. Of course, the Old Ones ended up kicking their butts and in desperation, the Silent King found the C'Tan and agreed to the Deceiver's pact without realizing what he was doing. However, after the Necrons helped the C'Tan to kill off the last Old Ones, the Silent King then ordered the Necrons to turn on the C'Tan in vengeance and utterly destroyed the C'Tan into tiny shards. This war agains the C'Tan weakened the Necrons overall so much they decided to go into stasis to avoid the vengeance of the Eldar (the C'Tan had killed the Old Ones, but not all their children).
Now that the Necrons have reawakened in the 41st millennium, their goal is no longer to 'harvest' souls for the C'Tan (the C'Tan shards are now their slaves) as it was in the old book, but rather to reestablish the great Necron empire that spanned the galaxy before the war with the Old Ones began. However, the overall hierarchy of the Necron people is gone for the most part, leaving each individual Empire to once again rule for itself. This means each Tomb World (or cluster of Necron worlds) is essentially a separate little empire to itself, with a full backstory and idiosyncrasies. While Necron warriors are pretty much just automatons and Immortals not too much better, every other higher Necron being is now much more like an actual person, as their essence is simply trapped inside a metal body.
So there is lots of crazy nuance to Necron culture that was never present before. The codex now has plenty of 'quote' boxes featuring memorable quotes from Necron Lords like other races have in their books. There are some Necron Lords who honor valor in battle, there are a few Necron Lords who trade with other races, and although an uneasy alliance apparently, yes Necrons and Blood Angels did end up fighting against a Tyranid Hive Fleet together. Oh, and there is definitely plenty of reason to have Necron vs. Necron action now (as the old feuds between competing Necron Lords flare back up again).
All in all, it is a major tonal shift. While part of me recoils from it, the other part of me thinks that Necrons as they were had no distinct 'character' that each player could choose to get behind. Yes, the race as a whole had 'character' in how it was organized and functioned, but there was never any really good reason that a player should have his Necron force painted and modeled 'X' way as opposed to another player with his Necron army looking 'Y' way. People certainly painted their Necrons in different (neat) ways, but there was never really any good fluff giving players inspiration to do so.
The only real 'personality' in the old book was the Deceiver, and that frankly wasn't the Necrons, it was their god. The mindless mission that all Necrons were on was basically really similar to Tyranids...the Necrons were coming to harvest every living thing in the galaxy (yawn).
This new incarnation, love it or hate it, gives the Necrons a whole wide array of personality and every single empire has different goals and motives (not to mention paint schemes, markings, etc). Some Necron Lords are obsessed with finding the perfect flesh bodies to transfer their sentience back into. One Necron Tomb World was damaged during the great sleep and erased all the Necron sentience and has started basically commanding its Necrons like true robots (and is actively attacking other Necron worlds to take them over and keep growing), and there are of course dozens more little stories. The Silent King, who put himself into exile (for his unforgivable crime against his people) by leaving the galaxy after defeating the C'Tan encountered the Tyranids in the void between galaxies and has returned to spur the Necrons into action against the Tyranids (realizing that if the Tyranids wipe the galaxy clean of biological matter, then the Necrons will never find a form to transfer their minds back into).
Oh, and the biggest rival of the Necrons is now actually the Altaoic (sp?) Craftworld. Apparently they are the only Eldar who stayed true on the original path to seek out and destroy Necron Tomb Worlds while the rest of the Eldar got all caught up and destroyed in their decadence and then the Fall. Altaoic rangers have traveled the galaxy far and wide over the millennia (ever since the Necrons went to sleep) to track down and destroy or hamper Tomb Worlds from reawakening.
So with this new direction there is now tons of different possibilities for players to make Necrons forces different from each other and there are neat new takes on 'nemesis' races like Eldar & Tyranids to drive gaming plots as well as good reason for Necron on Necron battles.
And as for totally destroying the background of the C'Tan, the codex does allude to the fact that there are lots of unaccounted for C'Tan shards still allegedly cast around the galaxy. The Necron are always trying to hunt them down and imprison them (in pocket dimension prisons), but this does still leave the door totally wide open for a shard of 'The Dragon' to be on Mars and for shards of 'The Deceiver' to have done all the crazy things that's been written about him in novels. Essentially, the full power C'Tan were massively, massively powerful, and the 'shard' versions of them are closer to the idea of what we had in the last codex anyway (something that can be killed/banished on a battlefield).
So while it is a little shocking to have such a massive fluff change hit, I do think it is probably the right way forward to create a more fully realized faction. But I do think it is probably going to be a massive turn-off to those players who absolutely adored the old fluff for the army.
Regarding the previous fluff saying that Necrons went into hibernation due to a massive 'Enslavers' invasion, in the new fluff they only really briefly mention that the wars unleashed some nasty things from the Warp, but they literally do not mention the Enslavers anymore. Read more about it here:
Spoiler:
It is very clear that the Eldar empire is the main reason they go into hibernation, having some sort of premonition that the Eldar can and will eventually crumble as all living beings and empires do.
It was a fairly solid plan, except a lot can go wrong when you're sleeping for 60 million years, and apparently billions of Necrons have been killed by simple, normal shifts in the galaxy in that time (stars going supernova, tectonics crushing tombs, etc)...but what they didn't predict was how poorly they'd all awake from the sleep. All Necrons were supposed to wake up at once, but that didn't happen. Some Necrons woke up during all periods of history (including the Horus Heresy) and many still haven't woken up. And in some cases those that wake up have suffered terrible afflictions (like the Flayer disease).
Since there are any number of strange and undocumented Tomb Worlds now, there is totally space for you to come up with whatever backstory and motivations you want for your personal Tomb World, much like every other codex allows players. Of course, there are also dozens of tiny little story snippets (as there are in every new codex) that give you plenty of inspiration to create and play armies as well. For example, say you really like the whole 'automaton' feeling the army had in the old codex. Well, in the codex they have a story telling of one Tomb World that during hibernation accidentally erased all the sentience from the sleeping Necrons and decided to 'take them over' and has since decided this is the way forward for the Necron race and is actively attacking other Necron Tomb Worlds to collect more bodies for the cause. Basically the only sentient brain in that whole army is the Tomb World itself (it even has given itself a name). So you could definitely use this backstory as 'your' Necron force and stick with more of a simple, robotic feel to your army.
Bits of the fluff talk about other races & systems paying 'tribute' to the Necrons...here's my speculation based on what I read:
Spoiler:
Necrons have always felt like they got the short end of the stick. When they were Necrontyr, they had a crappy planet and that drove them to invent technology and get the hell off their planet...but they still wanted to prove they were the best so they set about trying to creat the greatest galactic empire. And they did...but then as always happens, their empire started to creak and moan, so the war against the Old Ones started with naturally the belief that the Necrontyr would destroy the Old Ones and emerge even greater than before, the true heirs to the galaxy. And in fact they hated the Old Ones if for no other reason than because they had the secret for immortality (what the Necrontyr wanted more than anything) but wouldn't share it. And once the war started, naturally the Necrontyr couldn't beat the Old Ones despite their superior technology, as the Old Ones had access to the Webway which meant they could escape anytime they needed.
So eventually the Old Ones (and the races they created) were kicking the crap out of the Necrontyr. And so in the frustration of again getting the short end of the stick, they made the pact wit the Deceiver and sold their souls for immortality and power. But again, they felt shafted because they had essentially been tricked into doing this. So after the C'Tan had killed the Old Ones, they again wanted to take their rightful place as rules of the galaxy but they knew that would never happen as long as they were slaves to the C'Tan, so they turned on them as this is the only way they'd ever be free.
But of course that battle against the C'Tan did tremendous damage to them and thus they decided to use their immortality to 'outlast' the Eldar empire (which they did).
So now that they're back awake (mostly), although they've lost their main command structure as a people that sort of drove them forward towards any single goal, I think their goal is still to do what they always wanted...to rule the galaxy, to be the supreme beings. And this isn't exactly the same as humans, who basically want to eradicate all Xenos and populate all the planets themselves. Necrons more than anything (I think) want to be in control. They want to be worshipped by others. They finally want to get their due as being the rulers. So while they most certainly plan to destroy any force that gets in their way, I also get the distinct feeling from the new fluff that (with at least some of the Lords) they are perfectly okay with leaving existing planets/systems under alien control, as long as those people pay them tribute. Even though I have a hard time imagining what tribute the Necrons would really need (being robots and all), I don't think that's the point. The point is that the other races are paying them fealty and recognizing the mastery of the Necrons, which is precisely what they've always wanted.
NECRON ARMY-WIDE SPECIAL RULES
Spoiler:
• We'll Be Back from the previous codex has been replaced by Reanimation Protocols (sorry I keep accidentally calling it Resurrection Protocols in some of these teasers). It now works at the end of each phase, but only on a 5+. You now remove models and place a token or marker next to the unit to remind you how many rolls to make (although you could just use the downed models as markers, but the important thing is you know that these markers don't affect gameplay at all), and any rolls you do make at the end of the phase allow to put one model back into the unit. The rules are very clear about when/how models that return to play via RP are placed and if the entire unit is wiped out then the unit is gone and no RP rolls can be taken. Similarly, if the only model left in the unit is a character (such as a joined IC or a Cryptek/Lord) then these models alone are not sufficient to allow the other models to attempt their RP rolls. Nearly every non-vehicle unit in the game benefits from RP (as opposed to the old WBB, which only worked for 'Necrons'), except for the C'Tan shards.
Reanimation Protocols returns the model to play with a single wound unless they have a Phylactery in which case they come back (the first time they get back up) with D3 wounds.
• Ever-Living. This is basically just an additional Reanimation Protocol rule that characters have to describe how they're placed back on the table. Only characters (including basic Lords & Crypteks) have this rule, no squads do. The only real thing to note about it is that if the model wasn't joined to a unit when it went down, then if it returns to play it must be placed within 3" of the spot it fell. So characters are the only models it really matters where their 'marker' is placed when they are removed. So in some situations, such as an enemy unit killing a character with Ever-Living in CC and then consolidating on top of his marker, it would be entirely possible to prevent him from returning to play (as they can't if you are unable to place them within 3" of the spot they went down).
• Entropic Strike. This is mainly a Scarab rule, but it also applies to a few other weapons in the army as well. Basically if a model suffers an unsaved wound from an Entropic weapon then it has it armor save immediately changed to '-'. Obviously this would only apply to multi-wound models as any other type of model would be dead if it suffered an unsaved wound (ignoring the argument about whether a wound stopped by 'Feel No Pain' still counts as an unsaved Wound or not). Against vehicles, for each hit by this weapon type means at the end of the phase you roll a D6 and on a 4+ the vehicle's armor value is reduced by '1' on all facings. If a vehicle is reduced to '0' on any facing then it becomes wrecked immediately.
• Living-Metal. Not just for the Monolith anymore! Many vehicles in the codex have this and it basically allows the vehicle to ignore a Shaken result on a 2+ and a Stunned result on a 4+. These rolls are made immediately when the vehicle is damaged so this is nowhere near as good as the Grey Knights ability to remove Shaken/Stunned results.
• Quantum Shielding. This adds two to the front/side armor values of the vehicle until the vehicle suffers its first penetrating hit, then this bonus is lost for the rest of the game. The way it is written, I would say that when hit by Lance weapons, an area protected by Quantum Shielding would still not count as being higher than AV12.
• Phase out is gone (good riddance, I say ).
• There isn't any Force Org shifting around in this codex at all unlike most other recent codexes (so taking any special character doesn't allow you to take a unit in a different section of the Force Org chart at all).
NECRON ARMY-WIDE WEAPON NOTES
Spoiler:
• Gauss Weaponry does NOT have rending. It retains the 'auto-glance' on a penetration roll of a '6' rule, but has otherwise has lost the 'auto-wound' on a roll of a '6' regardless of Toughness that it used to have. The Gauss Cannon is now apparently Assault 2 & AP3 (I'm assuming the Strength is still 6).
• Telsa Weapons. With these weapons for every '6' rolled to hit the 'target suffers 2 additional automatic hits'. Whether or not that means the target suffers 2 or 3 hits in this case is a bit ambiguous, but I think the word 'additional' means that its actually 3 (one for the original hit for rolling the '6' to hit and then another additional two for a grand total of 3). The big daddy version of this weapon found on a lot of the heavier vehicles is the Tesla Destructor (and is almost always twin-linked to really maximize the chance to get those extra '6's to hit). All Tesla weapons are 24" and AP '-', but the Destructor is S7, Assault 4 and 'Arc' (which means you roll a D6 each unit, friendly and enemy, within 6" of your target and on a '6' they are struck with D6 S5 AP- hits as well). While the AP '-' keeps this weapon from being a premiere light vehicle killer, I think with all the potential S7 shots this can theoretically kick out, it still going to be pretty good at zapping vehicles.
The weapons go in order from lightest to heaviest as: Tesla Carbine -> Cannon -> Destructor.
• Particle Weapons. These are basically the blast weapons of the Necron army (with the exception of the pistol variant) with no special rules. They all have a pretty high Strength and a mid-range AP.
The weapons go in order from lightest to heaviest as: Particle Caster (pistol) -> Beamer -> Shredder -> Whip.
• There aren't any weapons that ignore invulnerable saves in the codex either...however there are quite a few little special abilities scattered about that simply remove models from play if they fail a certain kind of test, which does effectively ignore invulnerable saves (and any other kind of save too).
The most powerful Necron Overlord currently. Imotekh's Tomb World awoke with many of its rulers still in hibernation. The lesser Lords that awoke decided not to manually wake up their superiors as they each tried to vie for control of the world. After a decade of civil war, one lesser Lord got the idea that he could awaken a great general and use him to rally everyone else to his cause, and so he woke up Imotekh, who was instantly appalled at the state of the Tomb World. He raised his own army and quickly decimated all of his competitors to the throne and took over never to look back.
The only true rival in his kingdom is now Nemesor Zahndrekh, but he is still wildly loyal to Imotekh (likely believing him to be some great Royarch of old).
Imotekh is perhaps the galaxy's greatest strategist and his attacks are often made across whole systems simultaneously, not just on isolated planets. Although his attacks may seem almost magical to some, in truth it is cold hard logic and probabilities in play, something that Imotekh is a master of, along with a great understanding of his foes' minds. His logic is so flawless, that the only way an enemy can get an advantage on him is to be truly random...something Orks actually do innately, which is why Imotekh hates them above all else. Imotekh has one and only one goal: to wash clean the galaxy of all its lesser races, leaving the Necrons to remain supreme.
Imotekh knows that logic and precision can only accomplish so much. Therefore, he uses weapons of terror and confusion against the enemy including having his forces advance under a storm-darkened sky (not explained how he does that, but I'm guessing some sort of Necron tech is in play) as well as implanting some foes with 'bloodswarm nanoscarabs' whose presence in their bodies draws Flayed Ones to them like flies to crap.
His empire is growing at an extremely fast rate, faster than any other Necron Overlord. Of course, this expansion has also means that his Empire has begun to be noticed in a serious way by the Ultramarines, Iyanden Craftworld & even the Tau Empire (as all 3 are apparently fairly close to the borders of his expanding domain).
If there is one flaw with Imotekh, it his need to utterly humiliate his foes in order to truly display his superiority, and leave them alive to know their shame at being defeated (although typically with a limb removed as a grim reminder of their loss). However, this hubris has led to allowing vanquished foes to survive now with further knowledge about how to fight him and Necrons in general. The fluff hints that perhaps damage during hibernation is to blame, but which trait is due to this damage? Is the need for personal glory the glitch or is it the grand strategic vision?
Imotekh is armed with a few pieces of 'standard' wargear (that generic Overlords can also be equipped with): Phase Shifter & Sempiternal Weave (which together give him a 2+/3++ save), Phylactery & Gauntlet of Fire (which is a CC weapon that allows 'to hit' & 'to wound' rolls in combat to be re-rolled and can be used in the shooting phase as a very standard template weapon).
For non-standard wargear, he has 'Bloodswarm Nanoscarabs' which make you randomly pick one enemy non-vehicle unit in the army (going to need that random number generator again!) and any Flayed One packs aiming to Deep Strike within 6" of this enemy unit don't scatter.
He also carries the 'Staff of the Destroyer' which cannot be used in CC (so no +1 for having two weapons in CC) but allows a once per game shooting attack that is S6, AP1, Assault1 and fires a 2D6" straight 'line' out from Imotekh's base and hits enemy units underneath like the Doom Scythe's Death Ray (each unit under the line suffers as many hits as models in that unit that are actually under the line).
For special rules, if his close combat attacks bring down an enemy Independent Character or Monstrous Creature then you get 2 Kill Points instead of 1...but if you're playing a campaign then any models 'killed' this way gain 'preferred enemy' against Imotekh in subsequent games in the campaign (as he lets them go after defeating them).
He is also is able to steal the Initiative in games on a roll of 4+, unless playing against Orks (in which case you can't even attempt to seize the Initiative).
He has a special rule that makes the first turn of the game be night fighting no matter what the mission and he can try to extend the rule into further turns by rolling higher than the current turn number on a D6...in addition, while the Night Fighting rules are in effect at the start of the Necron Shooting phase you roll a D6 for each unengaged enemy unit and on a roll of '6' suffer D6 S8 AP5 hits (as they are hit by lightning strikes). Vehicles get hit on their side armor.
And as a nice combo to this there is a Cryptek ability called 'solar pulse' which allows (once per game) at the start of any turn (friend or foe) for the Night Fighting rules to be cancelled for that turn (or apply if the Night Fighting rules weren't in effect when the pulse was launched...although Night Fighting created by a Solar Pulse does not generate Lightning Strikes against enemy units).
So I could see an army based around this using Night Fight (with Lighting Strikes, of course), and then any turn they REALLY need to shoot, you can use the Solar Pulse to cancel out the Night Fighting effects on your own turn, which still leaves them affecting enemy shooting on their turn! Seems like it could be quite nasty indeed! Oh, and he can try to seize the Initiative on a 4+ except against Orks (who confound his logic). But of course, he is also over 200 points naturally...basically the big uber-Ghazghkull style guy in the codex.
Can take a Catacomb Command Barge and/or a Royal Court.
Confirmed in WD 382, his cost is 225 points.
• Nemesor Zahndrekh & his loyal bodyguard Vargard Obryon:
Their Fluff:
Spoiler:
This is a Lord whose mind was damaged during hibernation and he still thinks he's fighting the wars of secession against his fellow Necrontyr (not even realizing he is a Necron now).
Therefore, he still practices honor and valor towards his enemies and tries to capture opposing generals instead of kill them. He would also never use Deathmarks, Wraiths, etc, as these are not honorable (assassins). Of course, they also say his subordinates have no such compunctions, so it explains how you can still have these units in an army with him.
Even though most of his subordinates would like to see him removed because he's obviously crazy, he is still a military genius and he still has a bunch of loyal followers as well, including his long-standing bodyguard Obyron, who takes care to clean up whatever messes Zahndrekh's delusions get them into (like he always arranges for enemy prisoners to be executed while 'trying to escape' for example).
Zahndrekh has the gear to give himself a 2+/3+ save (which generic Overlords can do as well if they take the same gear). He also has a Rez Orb, Particle Caster (pistol) and Void Blade (Rending & Entropic).
His special rules are all based around his tactical acumen and they allow him at the start of each Necron turn to pick a friendly unit and give them a special rule: Counter-Attack, Furious Charge, Hit and Run, Acute Senses, Stealth or Tank Hunters (which they get until the start of their next turn).
He ALSO gets to pick one enemy unit on the table within his line of sight to lose ALL of those special rules listed above until the start of the next Necron turn.
When he is on the battlefield, any number of Necron units in reserve waiting to Deep Strike may choose to enter play immediately after any enemy unit arrives from Reserves. In other words, basically the same ability the Deathmarks have.
Vargard Obyron does not take up a HQ slot if in the same army as Zahndrekh. He has an uncharacteristic WS6 (as well as a 2+ save) along with a Warscythe.
He also has the Ghostwalk Mantle, which is a Veild of Darkness that can be used to pull his unit out of close combat (leaving the enemy to consolidate immediately), and if he choose to arrive within 6" of Zahndrekh, he does not scatter. Furthermore, if Zahndrekh's unit is ever assaulted and Obyron is not part of that combat, then he immediately teleports into the combat, leaving whatever unit he is in, even if he is already fighting combat or embarked in a vehicle.
Finally, he has a special rule that means he keeps track of any misses enemies roll against him in CC (not counting those that are successfully re-rolled). Each 'miss' that occurs before he swings in combat gives him a bonus extra attack that round of combat, up to a maximum of 6.
These guys are not cheap (although at least individually still not as expensive as the Stormlord), but they've certainly got some interesting potential.
Nemesor can take a Catacomb Command Barge and/or a Royal Court.
• Illuminor Szeras:
His fluff:
Spoiler:
It says that while the C'Tan provided the knowledge for the bio-transference of the Necrontyr race into Necrons, it was Szeras that actually made it a reality. He saw it as just one step towards the ultimate evolution into gods of pure energy (I guess what he saw the C'Tan as and wanted to be that).
So even today he continues his tireless studies into understanding all facets of life, presumably seeking the elusive secret that would allow him to become a 'god' in his eyes.
To do this, apparently he feels he needs to test on living beings, so he's constantly needing fresh subjects culled from invasions. Through his research he has come up with some the greatest advancements in technology for the Necrons, so his services are much sought after.
He is a Cryptek special character, so has a much more less powerful statline then the other special characters that are essentially super-Necron Orverlords. Despite being a 'Cryptek' in the fluff, he's still just a regular HQ choice (and you can't take a Royal Court for him because he isn't an Overlord).
For Wargear, he has an Eldrtich Lance and Gaze of Flame (Assault and Defensive Grenades for him and his unit).
His one unique special rule is that he upgrades a single Warrior or Immmortal unit with a random upgrade (you roll a D3 to see which ability gets picked...I mistakenly reported earlier that he upgraded D3 units, but that actually isn't the case. He only upgrades one unit)
The upgrades are: T5, BS5 or S5.
Definitely one of the more ho-hum named characters from a gameplay perspective, but he's also the cheapest by far, although the fact that you can't take a Royal Court for him does seem to make his uses even as a cheap HQ choice likely questionable.
Cannot take a Catacomb Command Barge or a Royal Court (as he isn't an Overlord).
• Orikan the Diviner:
His fluff:
Spoiler:
Orikan is the master 'astromancer' in the Necron race and is roughly equivalent to what Eldrad is to the Eldar (although I think Eldrad is superior to him in terms of future predictions).
Since Orikan knows so much about the future, he tends to treat other Necrons with scorn and disdain and this has made him less than popular and many would like to see him destroyed. Unfortunately, his skills are fare too useful for anyone to actually go through with that.
Unlike a Farseer, it seems as though his ability to predict the future is largely based on sheer calculations of even the smallest minutiae. However, unforeseen events, especially those based around the truly unpredictable nature of the warp can and do confound him. In order to maintain his reputation, he has access to some rare chronomantic abilities, which he uses to actually go backwards in time to change past events slightly to make sure his predictions actually come true.
Of course, every time he does this, naturally all sorts of other terrible unforeseen events also tend to occur based on what he changed in the past, but as long as his prediction came true, he cares little for any other destruction he causes.
Just as with Illuminor Szeras (the other 'Cryptek' named character) he has lesser stats than the Overlord style named characters. He does have a phase shifter though (3++ save).
His weapon is the 'staff of tomorrow' and its basically a staff that hits his opponents an instant before he actually swings it! That means he gets to re-roll 'to hit' and 'to wound' rolls, and it is a power weapon.
He has a special rule called 'Lord of Time' that allows him on one turn (and only one turn) to re-roll all unsuccessful reserve rolls that turn (unsuccessful rolls MUST be rerolled that turn, he doesn't get to choose).
He has another special rule that means all enemy units count as moving through difficult terrain on the first turn and if they are actually moving through difficult terrain then they have to choose the lowest die from the two they roll for difficult terrain. This obviously seems like a good ability to combine with the C'Tan manifestation that makes all difficult terrain count as dangerous!
The last ability he has is called 'The Stars are Right' and basically represents the fact that Orikan has predicted that at some time during the battle the stars will align and he will reclaim a portion of his ancient power (presumably from before when he was a Necontyr). He rolls a D6 at the start of each of his turns and if the die roll is less than or equal to the turn number then he has ascended to his 'empowered' state and gets a totally new statline that has S/T7, A/W4, etc...suspiciously similar to a C'Tan profile some would say.
Of course, you have to keep rolling at the start of each turn and if you ever roll less than or equal to the turn number again, his power recedes and he drops back down to his old statline (which could mean he instantly dies if he had already suffered more wounds than his 'lesser' profile has on it).
Points-wise, this guy is nowhere near as cheap as Illuminor Szeras, but compared to the rest of the named characters, he is still the cheapest.
Cannot take a Catacomb Command Barge or a Royal Court (as he isn't an Overlord).
• Anrakyr the Traveller:
His fluff:
Spoiler:
A Necron Lord whose goal is to unite the Necron Empires again. He travels to Tomb Worlds still sleeping and kills the 'lesser' inhabitants that may live there unaware they are on a Tomb World, the 'price' for this service is to claim a tithe from the newly awakened legions. Some Necrons see him as a golden crusader others don't want reunification and would rather see him dead.
He has a special rule that allows the Necron player to pick an enemy vehicle each shooting phase within 18" and on a D6 roll of 3+, the Necron player is able to fire with that vehicle as if it were his (counting as not moving for the shooting attack and ignoring any shaken/stunned results on it)...in other words he 'hacks' into the vehicle and momentarily takes control!
He also has a Tachyon Arrow, which is like a super hunter-killer missile. A one-time use S10 AP1 single shot that has unlimited range (Overlords & Destroyer Lords have the option to take this as well).
I can't imagine too many people ever taking this guy over the Stormlord (although he is 50 pts cheaper), but that ability could just do some crazy things, especially in Apocalypse games where you could shoot with an enemy titan or other super-heavy vehicle!
Can take a Catacomb Command Barge and/or a Royal Court.
• Trazyn the Infinite:
His fluff:
Spoiler:
He is a Necron who woke very early and is fascinated with studying and collecting history. His tomb world is filled with secret trinkets including (I quote) 'a giant of a man clad in baroque power armor' (start your wild theories here!). He even will attack other Necron tomb worlds to capture artifacts from them that he doesn't think they deserve.
He has a special weapon whose affect happens after a round of combat in which he has killed an enemy and after all blows have been struck on both sides. Given that this is not a power weapon (and he just has 3 Attacks), it is not a sure thing that he will kill anybody in combat!
But if he does, roll a D6 for every model (friend or enemy) that has the same name on their characteristic profile as one of the models that he killed that turn. On a 4+ those models take a wound (armor/inv saves can be taken as normal).
Example: If the he kills an Ork Boy in close combat, roll for all other Boyz in the same combat, and on a 4+ those models suffer a wound, but NOT the nob (as he has a different name on his profile). It would seem that if he was fighting against another Necron player, then this rule has the potential to hurt his own forces if the same type of units were facing off; if he was attached to a unit of warriors that was fighting against an enemy unit of warriors, for example.
He is also a scoring unit (because in reality when he's 'claiming' an objective he's really seeking to claim a hidden Necron artifact nearby, it says).
Also, anytime he is removed as a casualty, roll a D6. On a 1, he is removed as normal (but would still get a chance to use Reanimation Protocols as usual I presume as he has that special rule too), but on a 2+ you randomly choose another model from all the friendly Lychguards, Crypteks, Necron Lords and Overlords on the table (not counting named versions of those) and remove that model and replace it with Trazyn, who counts as returning to play with the same amount of wounds the model he replaces had. And it even specifies that he only gives out Kill Points when he doesn't return this way.
He also has Mindshackle Scarabs (which is a piece of wargear that other character-type models in the army have access to). These allow the bearer to randomly pick one enemy model in base contact before any attacks are made in CC that turn. That model must pass a Ld test on 3D6. If it fails the test, it instead does D3 attacks on its own unit using the weapons/special rules of the Necron player's choice (if the model has different weapons or kinds of attacks).
So while not a powerhouse or a character that boosts the ability of your army, he is a HQ that is a scoring unit which can give you a few different tactical options.
Can take a Catacomb Command Barge but CANNOT take a Royal Court.
Confirmed in WD 382, his cost is 175 points.
• Necron Overlord: Generic DIY Necron Overlord (guy who rules a Tomb World) with plenty of options. Can ride on a Catacomb Command Barge and/or take a Royal Court.
Generic Overlords start with a Staff of Light (regular CC weapon that also has a 12" S5, AP3, Assault 3 shooting attack). They can exchange (and in some cases pay more points for):
• Warscythe • Gauntlet of Fire • Hyperhase Sword • Voidblade
I think I've discussed all those weapon options before in other unit descriptions, so I won't bother going over them.
They also have the option to take any of the following Wargear:
• Phylactery • Mindshackle Scarabs • Sempiternal Weave • Tesseract Labyrinth (one use only. choose a character or monstrous creature in base contact and instead of making CC attacks the victim must roll under its remaining wounds on a D6 or be removed as a casualty with no saves allowed). • Tachyon Arrow • Resurrection Orb • Phase Shifter
• Destroyer Lord: Basically the same as an Overlord but with Preferred Enemy against everything (Destroyers now hate everybody). CANNOT take a Royal Court.
Destroyer Lords come stock with the Warscythe and have the same weapon options as the Overlord (except they can't get the Staff of Light).
The only wargear choices Destroyer Lords have are:
• Royal Court: 0-5 regular Necron Lords (lieutenants to the Overlords) as well as 0-5 Crypteks (can take 0-5 of either or both, for a minimum of 1 model or a maximum of 10). Crypteks are masters of Necron technology, whose abilities sometimes appear like sorcery to other races, but they do not have any psychic powers...all their abilities do not require a psychic test or anything like that (nor are they ever referred to as psychic powers in any way). Any member of the Court (Lord or Cryptek) can be split off at the start of the game to lead a unit of Warriors, Immortals, Lychguard or Deathmarks (but only one per unit).
The Royal Court does not take up a HQ slot but may only be taken one per each Overlord (including the named ones) you take in the army.
Crypteks vs. (basic) Lords in the 'Royal Court': both have more like squad leader stats then character stats (1 wound each for example) with both of their base points are in the exact same range as an IG Commissar, for example. However, all of the upgrades for these guys clock in the 5 to 45 point range (each option) with probably a 15 point median for their gear, so you can imagine that these guys will very quickly eat up your points if you give them many (or any) upgrades.
These (lesser) Lords come standard with Staff of Light but can upgrade it to (for a number points):
• Warscythe • Gauntlet of Fire • Hyperphase Sword • Voidblade
And they can take any of the following gear (for a number of points):
Of all those weapons and upgrades only the Rez Orb benefits the unit. The rest of the upgrades just give the Lord extra benefits in combat or armor save.
So really, if you're looking to make the Lord improve a unit by leading it, besides adding some CC punch to the unit your only real choice is the Rez Orb and the Rez Orb is on the high end of the points scale for their wargear so it isn't exactly a steal to get a Rez Orb into a unit (which for those who aren't keeping up boosts that unit's, and only that unit's, Reanimation Protocols to a 4+).
Crypteks can be taken plain jane if you wanted (with only a Staff of Light), but if you want to upgrade them at all, then you have to select a 'discipline' that they follow. There are five disciplines to pick from and each one costs some amount of points to take, with the only benefit being that you get an upgraded weapon instead of the staff of light that fits into that discipline's role (all but one of these upgraded weapons are improved shooting attacks).
The 5 Disciplines are: Harbinger of Destruction (described as 'plasmancers', weapon is Eldritch Lance, wargear choices are Gaze of Flame & Solar Pulse), Harbinger of Eternity (able to read the future, weapon is Aeonstave, weargear choices are Chronometron & Timesplinter Cloak), Harbinger of Transmogrification (described as 'geomancers', weapon is Tremorstave, options are Seismic Crucicble & Harp of Dissonance), Harbringer of the Storm (described as 'ethermancers', weapon is Voltaic Staff, options are Ether Crystal & Lightning Field) & Harbringer of Despair (described as 'psychomancers', weapon is Abyssal Staff, options are Nightmare Shroud & Veil of Darkness).
Now, once you've chosen a discipline to upgrade to, you're allowed to give the Cryptek one (or both) of the listed wargear options. HOWEVER, the rules state that 'each of the wargear options can only be chosen once in each Royal Court'. So the only way you're going to get more than one Veil of Darkness (for example) is to take a second Royal Court and even then you're only getting a second one. So you will be able to spam these items.
Harbinger of Destruction • Weapon: Eldritch Lance (36", S8, AP2, Assault 1) • Potential Wargear: Gaze of Flame (Assault/Defensive Grenades for the unit) & Solar Pulse (covered in Imotekh's rules above).
Harbinger of Eternity • Weapon: Aeonstave (a regular CC weapon except: Any model that suffers an unsaved wound from it loses 'fleet' if it has it and reduces its WS, BS, I, & A to '1' for the rest of the game). • Potential Wargear: Chronometron (The bearer, or his unit, can re-roll a single D6 each phase) & Timesplinter Cloak (3++ save).
Harbinger of Transmogrification • Weapon: Termorstave (36", S4, AP-, Assault 1, Blast weapon that causes an enemy unit hit by it to count as moving in difficult terrain in their next movement phase). • Potential Wargear: Seismic Crumble (A single enemy unit picked at the start of the enemy's assault phase has its assault move reduced by D3" if attempting to assault the Cryptek's unit) & Harp of Dissonance (Unlimited Range, S6, AP-, Assault 1, Entropic).
Harbinger of the Storm • Weapon: Voltaic Staff (12", S5, AP-, Assault 4 weapon that hits vehicles like Haywire Grenades: roll a D6 and 2-5 = glancing hit, 6 = ). • Potential Wargear: Lightning Field (Enemy units assaulting the Cryptek's unit immediately suffer D6, S8, AP5 hits) & Ether Crystal (Any units arriving by Deep Strike within 6" of the Cryptek D6, S8, AP5 hits. If there is more than one Ether Crystal within range then you just increase the number by 1...so a total of D6+1 hits).
Harbinger of Despair • Weapon: Abyssal Staff (Template, S8, AP1, Assault 1, roll against target's Ld instead of Toughness, does not affect vehicles). • Potential Wargear: Nightmare Shroud (Each Necron shooting phase, pick an enemy unit within 18" and force them to take a morale test) & Veil of Darkness (Same as before but cannot be used to pull the unit out of combat).
So in general I think the basic Lord is what you take if you're trying to give the Royal Court some CC punch (or give a unit some CC punch)...besides the obvious Rez Orb choice, of course! Instead, if you're wanting to upgrade your unit to have some unique abilities and a specialty shooting weapon in it, then the Cryptek is the way to go.
Neither Lords nor Crypteks are ICs…they are assigned to a unit at the start of the game or are kept together as a Royal Court unit. The lesser Lords & Crypteks cannot take Catacomb Command Barges and they have no option to take Destroyer bodies.
DEDICATED TRANSPORTS
• Night Scythe: Fast, skimmer (not open-topped). A variant of the Doom Scythe fighter that is a 15 model flyer transport with the 'supersonic' 36" flat-out move that the new flyers (that are really skimmers) have. Can carry jump infantry models (taking up 2 spots each), Jetbike models (taking up 3 spots each) and fire all its weapons even when moving at cruising speed. Has living metal, but not quantum shielding. AV 11/11/11 like most Necron vehicles. Has a Twin-linked Tesla Destructor as its weapon.
The transport is done by a wormhole gateway on the underside, the only access point. If the Night Scythe is destroyed, the embarked unit is not deployed, but instead goes back into reserves to arrive normally (i.e. it can't deep strike even if the unit has that rule). This can suck pretty bad for an expensive unit to suddenly get sucked back into Reserves, but remember as long as you have at least one Monolith in your force, you can use its Portal to pull that unit out of Reserves at the start of your next movement phase, so it isn't all that bad!
The artwork basically just shows the craft as a crescent shaped vehicle, with barrels sticking out from underneath for the weapons. This artwork for the Night/Doom Scythe looks very similar to what you see flying in the background of some of the first wave release covers.
• Ghost Ark: Open-topped, non-fast skimmer. 10 model transport (It can only carry Necron Warriors, Lords, Overlords, Crypteks and Special Characters), AV11 with quantum shielding and living metal. Also is able to regenerate D3 Warrior models to one unit within 6" each Necron movement phase (but cannot take the unit above its starting size). Has a Gauss Flayer array (5 Flayers) on each side is allowed to fire at different enemy targets. Not entirely clear whether a weapon destroyed takes out a whole array or not, but I'm leaning towards yes. 115 points, confirmed in WD 382.
• Catacomb Command Barge: Open-topped fast skimmer that is a one-man vehicle for most ICs. AV11 with quantum shielding & living metal. Also the character can lose wounds to negate immobilized or weapon destroyed results. Also has a Tesla Cannon (which can be upgraded to a Gauss Cannon). Can make 3 sweep attacks over a single enemy unit it passes over when it moves (vehicles are hit on their back armor). These attacks hit on a 3+ at combat speed, 4+ otherwise. On a to hit roll of '6' you choose which model in the unit his hit by the attack.
When you combine this Sweep Attack with the S7 attacks most ICs have with a Warscythe (for example), this could potentially be a bit nasty…note that Trazyn's special ability to nuke all the same type of model in a unit will not work as a sweep attack because of the way it is written (he needs to be locked in combat to use it).
ELITES
• Deathmarks: 24" range rapid-fire AP 5 sniper unit that can choose to Deep Strike in immediately after any enemy unit arrives from Reserves (which just allows the enemy to fire at them first?)...teleporting in from a pocket dimension to target their prey. They can also mark a single unit as their 'target' which allows them to roll to wound on a 2+. Beautiful models from the pics leaked, but at 19 pts per model (confirmed in WD 382) I can't see them ever being used except to see those great models on the table. 5-10 in a unit and can be transported on a Night Scythe.
• Lychguard: Traditionally these have been the bodyguards for the Overlords. 5-10 in a unit. Come standard with Warscythes (+2 Strength Power weapon...there is no built-in shooting weapon on the Warscythe anymore) but the entire unit can replace their Warsythes (for 5 points more) with Hyperphase swords (power weapon) and Dispersion Shields (gives them a 4+ invuln that when passed, reflects wounds caused by shooting onto any enemy unit within 6"…does not redirect blast/templates though). They can be transported on a Night Scythe. 40 pts per model (confirmed in WD 382_.
• Triarch Ptaetorians: These used to be effectively the 'police' (my term) of the main Necron ruler (the last of which was the Silent King) to help enforce his will onto the Lords of the Empire. They are known to respect great warriors and honor valor and have sometimes ordered Necron Overlords to stop attacking a foe they deemed worthy of respect (much to the Lord's chagrin). 5-10 in a unit. They are Jump Infantry (wearing gravity displacement packs) with a 6" AP2 S5 weapon that is also a power weapon. The entire unit can swap that out for Void Blades (a weapon with Rending and the same Entriopic ability that Scarabs have) and Particle Casters (a S6 AP5 pistol weapon). No transport option. 40 pts per model (confirmed in WD 382).
• C'Tan Shard: Fluff-wise, these are shards effectively controlled by the Necron (even though they have most shards locked away in pocket dimensions). Each shard represents only a portion of the power and consciousness of the C'Tan and therefore in battle the C'Tan may not even think to utilize some of its power because the portion of it that knows it has 'X' power simply isn't there. This is essentially what explains why they only have access to 2 special abilities in battle.
Basically, the Necrons know they cannot fully destroy the C'Tan (only shatter them into shards) and are deathly afraid one of them will get their full power back together and take their revenge back on the Necrons for betraying them. So the Necrons are generally hunting down the shards and locking them in inter-dimensional prisons. However they somehow have the ability to force these shards to fight for them (presumably through the Necodermis the shards reside in), although in gameplay terms there are no additional rules to represent that the shard is essentially a prisoner.
1 per FOC slot taken. WS/BS5, S/T7, W/I/A4, Ld10, 4+ Invuln save. Each shard must take 2 of the 11 listed ability choices that basically shape what kind of C'Tan shard you're fielding. No ability can be taken more than once in the army (even if you take 3 C'Tan shards in the army). Also has Eternal Warrior and ignores all terrain penalties. Still explodes D6" when they die.
These abilities each cost a different point value (between 10 & 50 points), they are:
• Can make their CC attacks Entropic.
• Can place a large blast over themselves at the I1 step of combat and all models touched by it suffer a S3 hit with no armor saves allowed. If one or more unsaved wound is caused by this attack, the C'Tan gains a single wound back (but cannot go above its starting wound values). Kills caused by this attack do NOT count towards combat resolution.
• Can redeploy D3 units after deployment and scout moves are done, including moving units into/out of reserves.
• Make all Melta/Flamer fired within 12" basically suffer from 'gets hot' except that if a '1' is rolled then the firing model is removed automatically with no save possible. On vehicles, an exploded weapon counts as 'destroyed'.
• Make all enemy vehicles moving within 6" of the C'Tan count as moving through difficult terrain. Deep Striking units landing within 6" auto-mishap if their scatter roll is a double (regardless of whether they 'hit' or not).
• Counts as having both Assault/Defensive Grenades & Stealth.
• During the C'Tan's Initiative step pick one enemy model in base contact. That model must pass an I test or be removed with no save possible.
• Makes all difficult terrain count as dangerous for the enemy army and makes existing dangerous terrain cause wounds on '1' or '2' instead of the normal '1'.
• Shooting Attack: 24", S4, AP-, Assault 1, Large Blast
• Shooting Attack: 18", S4, AP-, Assault 8
• Shooting Attack: 24", S9, AP2, Assault 1
As awesome as some of this sounds, you have to temper that with the fact that shards are nearly 200 points with no options, and once you factor in the two manifestation upgrades, you're talking about a unit that is somewhere between 200-300 points (depending on which two manifestations you take).
Every indication I get from the codex is that you'll just use the existing models to represent C'Tan shards, because if you think about how they're described now, a 'shard' is really much closer to what the old codex's power-level was for a C'Tan.
• Flayed Ones:
Flayed Ones were an entire Tomb World 'cursed' by the C'Tan they killed with a degenerative disease that makes them go crazy and crave flesh (despite not being able to actually eat it, they try anyway). Flayed Ones are sickening to regular Necrons who are afraid they may end up like that eventually, and Flayed Ones presence on the Battlefield is not asked for (they just warp in on their own) and after the battle is over Necrons often try to hunt down and destroy any Flayed Ones they can.
3 Attacks base (and no additional CC weapons). Can infiltrate or Deep Strike. No transport options. 5-20 in a unit. They do not have any other special rules (like the 'terrifying visage' they used to have). 13 points each (confirmed in WD 382).
• Triarch Stalker: Concept Sketch shows a Triarch Praetorian sitting in an open-topped cockpit that is riding on a Necron-style giant almost scorpion walker set of legs. Very cool looking IMHO.
1 per FOC slot chosen. Has a variable heat ray (which can be upgraded to a couple of other weapons) that can either be fired as a template or as an Assault 2 S8 24" Heavy2 Melta weapon. Has a Targeting relay which means that any enemy unit hit by the Stalker gets a counter placed by it that allows all other Necron units shooting at the same unit that phase to count as being twin-linked. AV11 & open-topped, but does have Quantum shielding, Living Metal & Move Through Cover. Can upgrade its Heat Ray for a Particle Shredder or twin-linked Heavy Gauss Cannon (both of which cost more points).
TROOPS
• Warriors: You know them, you love them. Described as being basically automatons, with very little (if any) sentience.
5-20 per squad and can be transported on a Ghost Ark or Night Scythe (as long as the squad is small enough to fit into those respective transports.
They have the same basic statline they had before except they now have a 4+ save. Now before you go crazy, also note that their points cost is 13 points (confirmed in WD 382), which is almost a 1/3 price drop (down from 18 points). That means you get nearly 1/3 more Warrior models in the army for the same amount of points...it also makes losing an entire unit due to sweeping advance, not nearly as painful.
I know a lot of cynical people will hate this and accuse GW from simply making the change to sell more Warrior models, and you could be right. But personally I was always hoping they were going to make Necron Warriors not quite as tough and dump the points cost on them, so you could really take a ton of them...given in my mind they are supposed to be more like a shambling horde of undead robots than some sort of small elite force of super-warriors (but that could just be me).
So this change alone totally changes the army from out of the 'MEQ' umbrella and makes their base statline unique in the game (which is good, IMHO).
• Immortals: Immortals are said to have the ability to at least speak, but still aren't too much brighter than Warriors. These were Elite warriors of the Necrontyr before the conversion (not sure who the rank and file troops were if the Warriors were the non-combatants and the Immortals were the Elite soldiers?).
5-10 per unit. Immortals have lost their T5 (down to T4), but keep their 3+ save. However, their points cost has dropped to 17 pts a model (confirmed in WD 382), which is an 11 point drop (more than 1/3 a drop from the previous cost of 28 pts)! Can exchange their Gauss Blasters (which are now a rapid fire weapon) for Tesla Carbines (24" S5 Assault1, 'Tesla') Can be transported on a Night Scythe.
FAST ATTACK
• Canoptek Wraiths: Protectors of the Tombs while the hosts slumber.
1-6 in a unit. Jump Infantry who ignore terrain (don't take tests). Still have a 3+ invulnerable save and 3A base with Rending. 2 Wounds, but only I2. Any model can take one of a few different upgrades including a Whip Coil (nearly identical to a Tyranid Lash Whip), particle caster (S6 pistol) or a Exile Beamer (12" ranged HEAVY weapon that kills a randomly chosen model in the target unit unless it passes a Strength test). Roughly the same amount of points they used to be.
• Canoptek Scarabs: Scarabs are 15 points (confirmed in WD 382). 3-10 in a unit. They are now Fearless Swarms, have Entropic Strike as well as getting Reanimation Protocols. They are also beasts now. I can see this unit being spammed in a lot of armies because it can literally tear apart any vehicle if enough of them get into combat with it. Basically any vehicle that didn't move the previous turn that finds itself within charge range of a full Scarab squad is absolutely dead (since they have 3 Attaks, 4 on the charge and each hit reduces the vehicle's armor by 1 on a 4+)!
And even if they don't manage to wipe out a vehicle with their attacks (say they get unlucky or the swarm has been whittled down), then you're still looking at a vehicle with severely weakened armor that can then likely be taken out by any shooting unit in your army in a following shooting phase.
• Tomb Blades: Jet Bikes. From the artwork, these look like Necron warriors fused into a flying crescent throne carrying a weapon harness in their arms that is base twin-linked Tesla Carbines. The fluff says that they are pre-programmed with a bunch of different flight patterns and vectors that the onboard Warrior chooses from on the fly. this mitigates the fact that a Warrior has poor coordination, but since the programs are so advanced, in reality they act basically like any other similar unit in an enemy army despite the fact that their 'pilots' are much slower to react.
1-5 in a unit. The entire unit can upgrade their weapons (Twin-linked Tesla Carbine) to a couple different choices (twin-linked Gauss Blaster or Particle Beamer). The entire unit can take any of the 3 options: Nebuloscope (increases BS to 5), Shield Vanes (increased armor save to 3+) & Shadowloom (Stealth). No dedicated transport option (although they can embark on a Night Scythe or get teleported through a Monolith's portal).
• Destroyers: New fluff that says Destroyers are infected with some kind of degenerative virus that causes their sole purpose in life to be to kill their enemies. As such they hate everyone and have the Preferred Enemy special rule against everyone (as do Destroyer Lords).
First the good news: Destroyers have gone down to 40 points (confirmed in WD 382). The bad news is that you can only have 1-3 in a unit (yes you read that right). They are Jump Infantry now. Any model in the unit can upgrade to a Heavy Destroyer (bumping them up to 60 point each, confirmed in WD 382)…so there is no longer a separate unit for Heavy Destroyers you just choose to upgrade some or all of them within the existing Destroyer unit. The Gauss Cannon and Heavy Gauss Cannon are now Assault weapons (to correspond with Destroyers now being JI). The Gauss Cannon has had its AP improved to 3, but lost one shot (down to 2). The Heavy Gauss Cannon is effectively the same (except for being an Assault weapon).
And let's not forget, before Destroyers tended to be the only mid to long-ranged threat in the army. That doesn't have to be the case anymore so I'm guessing that it won't be quite as big a problem to have the smaller units as it would have been fielding them at that size with the old codex.
HEAVY SUPPORT
• Doomsday Ark: Variant of the Ghost Ark transport. One per FOC slot taken. Open-topped, non-fast skimmer, AV11, Quantum Shielding, Living Metal. The Doomsday cannon has two profiles, one for if the vehicle did or didn't move that turn (with the non-moving one being 72" range S9 AP1 Large Blast). The moving profile only has a 24" range and a S7 blast. Basically described as gunboat whose strategy is to hit first and destroy the enemy before they can fire back. Also has the same two Gauss Flux Arrays that the Ghost Ark does, which can be fired at different targets than each other and the Doomsday Cannon. 175 points, confirmed in WD 382.
• Annihilation Barge: Described as anti-infantry support platforms. Variant of the Catacomb Command Barge. One per FOC slot taken. Open-topped, non-fast skimmer, AV11, Quantum Shielding, Living Metal. Has a twin-linked Tesla Destructor & a Tesla Cannon, but can upgrade the cannon to a Gauss Cannon. Not exactly sure why you'd want to do that except for the extra range (36" for the Gauss Cannon as opposed to all Tesla weapons which are 24" range). 90 points, confirmed in WD 382.
• Monolith: One Monolith per FOC slot. It is a skimmer, but also a new vehicle type called 'Heavy' which means the vehicle cannot move faster than combat speed but always counts as stationary when firing.The Gaus Flux Arc on the Monolith no longer automatically hits every unit within range, instead each one fires separately and can hit four different targets (which can be different targets from the rest of its shooting). Has 4 Gauss Flux Arcs and each Arc is now just a straight up 3 shot weapon (instead of a random number of hits). Particle whip is now just a straight up S8, AP3, 24", Ordnance, large blast. Oh, and if the Monolith is put into Reserves, it must arrive via Deep Strike.
200 points now (confirmed in WD 382), which comes along with corresponding nerf in invulnerability (were you not expecting that?). Still AV 14 and still has Living Metal (although again that only helps remove Crew Stunned/Shaken now). Can still Deep Strike but apparently no longer has invulnerability from Mishaps (although in the final version of the codex this may have changed based on some of the author's comments on the GW website). The portal can be used to either transport any non-vehicle friendly Necron unit on the table (that isn't engaged in combat) through it or to suck enemy models within 6" to instant death who fail a Strength Test (one or the other can be done each shooting phase). No bonus to reanimation protocols is present when a unit goes through the Portal. The Portal can also be used to pull a unit out of reserves as well (instead of teleporting a unit on the table). A unit that is teleported through the Monolith's portal counts as disembarking from a moving vehicle (despite the fact that the portal teleportation happens before the Monolith moves).
At the end of the day, this is still an AV14 vehicle all around, which is pretty imposing in the current game. Unfortunately all of its weapons are really close range, which means it will also now tend to be in Melta range...
• Doom Scythe: Pure fighter variant of the Night Scythe. One per FOC slot taken. Non-open topped fast skimmer. AV11 with Living Metal (but no Quantum Shielding). Is supersonic (36" flat-out) and can fire all its weapons when moving at cruising speed. Has a twin-linked Tesla Destructor & a Death Ray, which allows a 3D6"; line to be drawn (with one end of the line being within 12" of the vehicle) and causes a number of hits on every unit crossed by the line equal to the number of MODELS in the unit that are under the line (so if the unit has 5 models crossed by the line, it would suffer 5 hits). Oh and did I mention that these hits are S10 AP1? Nasty indeed! And the Tesla Destructor is no slouch either! But at nearly 200 pts for an AV11 vehicle, to get within 12" to unleash this beast will probably be a bit rough.
• Tomb Spyders: The artwork makes them look much more flying and nimble, like giant Scarabs.
1-3 can be taken per FOC slot (but only together as a unit, they aren't individuals like they were in the last codex). They can now repair vehicles like a Techmarine, Big Mek, etc. Can take an anti-psychic defense against any power targeting a friendly unit within 3" (which nullifies the power on a 4+). Can still create Scarab Swarms, but only into existing swarms on the table within 6" of the Spyder creating them (the created Scarabs no longer form a unit with the Spyder) and they still take damage if they roll a '1' while doing so. Can take Whip Coils (by giving up a close combat weapon and a +1 to repair vehicles) which is like a Tyranid Lash Whip. Can take 1 or 2 Particle Beamers (by removing its CC/fixer arms) to do so. They have a WS, BS & Wounds of 3 and are slightly reduced in points, but have lost an Attack (although they do start with two CC weapons unless you upgrade the arms to other stuff).
I have been reading this rumour discussion pretty tight, but I have just come to a matter that I am a bit unclear of.
the catacomb command barge's sweeping attacks. For each sweeping attack does he then gain 3 attacks, to a total of 9 attacks, or do we simply get 3 attacks, where the first can be rolled with 3+ to hit if we have moved combat speed at that time?
raknosha wrote:I have been reading this rumour discussion pretty tight, but I have just come to a matter that I am a bit unclear of.
the catacomb command barge's sweeping attacks. For each sweeping attack does he then gain 3 attacks, to a total of 9 attacks, or do we simply get 3 attacks, where the first can be rolled with 3+ to hit if we have moved combat speed at that time?
Just 3 sweep attacks total.
puma713 wrote:Yak, where is all this info from (besides a White Dwarf and rumors)?
Besides the stuff 'confirmed' by White Dwarf, these are all rumors posted by me.
I'll be converting uo some Wraiths. For those that are wondering about converting them I'll probably have a conversion guide up for what I'm going to be doing on my Blog by the end of next week. My bitz and new models should have arrived by then
My blog is in my signature. If your interested visit. If not no worries
Hulksmash wrote:I'll be converting uo some Wraiths. For those that are wondering about converting them I'll probably have a conversion guide up for what I'm going to be doing on my Blog by the end of next week. My bitz and new models should have arrived by then
My blog is in my signature. If your interested visit. If not no worries
When you get that up, if this thread is still going can you please mention here?
I'm curious how you're doing it, and I'll totally forget if not reminded.
I wonder how DashofPepper feels about these necron models/rumors?
He's always mentioned in previous posts that playing with necrons was a great thrill for him because he loved winning with an underdog army. Will that be the case, or are these new necrons looking to usurp Dark Eldar as the kings of the Xenos codices?
Anpu-adom wrote:On another note, what do people think about magnetizing the Ark? Seems like it would only be 3 large magnets or so (maybe some pinning to keep things orientated correctly, too.)
Interesting idea...
As a guy who magnetizes tons of his other armies (I already play necrons..and all my destroyers are magnetized to their bases, as are my tomb spiders), I have really been looking at this as an option.
I have to say conceptually it might be easy, but difficult to execute.
Basically there are two round connection points on the rear portion of the ark (where the pilot sits), one directly above the other.
In the Ghost ark configuration, the "spine" of the ark is connected to the bottom connection point.
The upper connection point (round disc) has nothing on it in the ghost ark configuration.
In the annihilation configuration, the "spine" of the rib cage is attached to the top connection point.
The gun, is attached to the bottom one.
So, basically you would have four parts.
1 - The pilot area, with two large connection points.
2 - The "ribcage" which is up for ghost ark, and points down for annihilation barge.
3 - The annihilation gun.
4 - the front prow, which attached to the ribcage.
It would take a combination of strong magnets and some large pins perhaps to pull this off, and this does not include having warriors in the "rib cage" section of the ghost ark config... Once I get my hand on a kit, I will see what I can come up with, and if it works, will post a video.
Looks like a fun army to play, both against and with. The "Lord of Fire" melta/flamer thing is a lot less scary then I thought, just have to blow the crap out of the C'tan before I get within 12" then.
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tetrisphreak wrote:I wonder how DashofPepper feels about these necron models/rumors?
He's always mentioned in previous posts that playing with necrons was a great thrill for him because he loved winning with an underdog army. Will that be the case, or are these new necrons looking to usurp Dark Eldar as the kings of the Xenos codices?
It will be interesting to see who is considered "better", either Necrons or DE.
Although, mark my words, the next major tournament will be nothing but silver armies.
First off, I have to say THANK YOU to Yakface for all the info. It's made the idiocy of GW's version of marketing at least tolerable.
But I have two questions for you, Yakface:
1. Can the Lords/Cryptecs be taken singly AKA not in a court? Doesn't sound like it, but it would be useful, especially for an upcoming tournament at my FLGS.
2. The Deathmarks gun is Strength X. What defines the X?
Oh, and I have to ask for my brother. What the chance that you'll have access to this level of info on the alleged Tau codex in a few months
1. Yes. You can take a royal court as a single lord or cryptek. Likewise, you can take multiple models in a single court, and assign all but one to other squads, leaving one lord/cryptek running solo.
2. The Deathmarks Strength X is defined by the fact that its a Sniper weapon. See your BRB for details.
I'm disappointed (but not surprised) that the Deceiver's "Misdirect" ability is not a choice for the C'Tan powers. I thought that was one of its most useful abilities and will be very sad to see it go. I would have gladly paid the cost each time for the ability to avoid combat.
Will be interesting to see what people think is the best combo for the C'Tan now - I have my thoughts but much depends on the point costs of course.
Mez
Also - love the new site colors. Much easier to read.
chaos0xomega wrote:I'm not yakface, but I can try to answer:
1. Yes. You can take a royal court as a single lord or cryptek. Likewise, you can take multiple models in a single court, and assign all but one to other squads, leaving one lord/cryptek running solo.
I think he's asking if you can just take a Lord as an HQ choice, which would be no. You need to take an Overlord (or a model of comparable position) to be able to take a Royal Court. Think Warlocks and Farseers in the Eldar book.
Do you have any idea of the stat lines and points for Nemesor Zahndrekh & his loyal bodyguard Vargard Obryon. These are what I intend as getting for my HQ choice.
Do you have any idea of the stat lines and points for Nemesor Zahndrekh & his loyal bodyguard Vargard Obryon. These are what I intend as getting for my HQ choice.
I'd put money on Nemesor having standard Overlord stats, he comes with the Wargear that provides 2+/3++ as well as a res orb, also considering his unique ability, I'd price him around 190 points.
Vargard sounds like a HQ equivalent Cryptek, so that still leaves him with Cryptek styled S4 and T4, but I'd imagine he would have 2W 2A base. Vargard also has an "uncharacteristic" (For a cryptek) 2+ armour save and a WS of 6, which is actually the highest in the army, he also gains attacks based on how many misses he takes, supported by a unique Veil of Darkness. I'd price him 170 area.
Like mentioned it's an expensive pair of characters when combined, especially since you will have trouble splitting them apart if Nemesor is assaulted, so you want him starting the fights or whoever Obyron was supporting is left all alone, could run them as a pair but it presents a fair few eggs in a single basket per se.
I'm dead keen to use these guys myself, Nemesor sounds like he belongs with a Lychguard shield squad providing them furious charge, I'm curious if you can take just Nemesor and leave Obyron out? Obyron could certainly have good uses with the Ghostwalker Mantle, but he maybe too expensive in smaller armies, and smart opponents will be able to get the assault on you and have Obyron away from whatever unit he was jumping around with.
What is getting me is the Harbinger of Transmogrification with the Harp of Dissonance. So you upgrade the Cryptek to replace his shooting weapon, and then upgrade him again to give him a choice of 2? I really hope you don't have to chose which shooting profile you use, and it is an extra independent shot.
If it can't be clarified, no worries. I'll have the codex in less than a week.
Do you have any idea of the stat lines and points for Nemesor Zahndrekh & his loyal bodyguard Vargard Obryon. These are what I intend as getting for my HQ choice.
I'd put money on Nemesor having standard Overlord stats, he comes with the Wargear that provides 2+/3++ as well as a res orb, also considering his unique ability, I'd price him around 190 points.
Vargard sounds like a HQ equivalent Cryptek, so that still leaves him with Cryptek styled S4 and T4, but I'd imagine he would have 2W 2A base. Vargard also has an "uncharacteristic" (For a cryptek) 2+ armour save and a WS of 6, which is actually the highest in the army, he also gains attacks based on how many misses he takes, supported by a unique Veil of Darkness. I'd price him 170 area.
Like mentioned it's an expensive pair of characters when combined, especially since you will have trouble splitting them apart if Nemesor is assaulted, so you want him starting the fights or whoever Obyron was supporting is left all alone, could run them as a pair but it presents a fair few eggs in a single basket per se.
I'm dead keen to use these guys myself, Nemesor sounds like he belongs with a Lychguard shield squad providing them furious charge, I'm curious if you can take just Nemesor and leave Obyron out? Obyron could certainly have good uses with the Ghostwalker Mantle, but he maybe too expensive in smaller armies, and smart opponents will be able to get the assault on you and have Obyron away from whatever unit he was jumping around with.
Vargard Obyron does not take up a HQ slot if in the same army as Zahndrekh.
Judging by the above statement, sounds to me as though 'IF in the same army' would mean that he doesnt have to be in the same army as Zahndrekh. It also sounds to me that Obryon can be taken on his own also, but I may be looking into it too deep. So if I had to put my money on if Zahndrekh can be taken on his own I would be leaning towards YES.
Yeah I think the wording does support that, I hope that is the case as I would prefer a Triarch stalker over Obyron to be fair, I think they will be a very useful unit to really make Necron shooting as effective and reliable, it's like a Necronized Vulkan He'stan of sorts
Forgeworld Tomb Stalker would be a fair substitute model in my eyes, or maybe I'm just looking for an excuse to buy one
Trozen wrote:What is getting me is the Harbinger of Transmogrification with the Harp of Dissonance. So you upgrade the Cryptek to replace his shooting weapon, and then upgrade him again to give him a choice of 2? I really hope you don't have to chose which shooting profile you use, and it is an extra independent shot.
If it can't be clarified, no worries. I'll have the codex in less than a week.
Pretty sure harp is a one shot. If it isnt than you lose the regular weapon for him. Since you can only buy upgrades once per court I doubt you will even see the harp much.
I'm dead keen to use these guys myself, Nemesor sounds like he belongs with a Lychguard shield squad providing them furious charge.
This would mean that he would be foot slogging or in a transport right? And I guessing that his rule to deep strike a unit from reserve would only really work for Praetorians, since the unit has to have the deepstrike rule.
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Sectiplave wrote:Reply to Metal Tide;
Yeah I think the wording does support that, I hope that is the case as I would prefer a Triarch stalker over Obyron to be fair, I think they will be a very useful unit to really make Necron shooting as effective and reliable, it's like a Necronized Vulkan He'stan of sorts
Forgeworld Tomb Stalker would be a fair substitute model in my eyes, or maybe I'm just looking for an excuse to buy one
I would love to buy a tomb stalker. That model is just magnificent. Too bad they didn't put it in the codex ae. As for using it as a Triarch stalker I don't think it will work judging that it is rumored to look like a Praetorian sitting on a giant scorpion which sounds like the best looking model I could ever think of.
Trozen wrote:What is getting me is the Harbinger of Transmogrification with the Harp of Dissonance. So you upgrade the Cryptek to replace his shooting weapon, and then upgrade him again to give him a choice of 2? I really hope you don't have to chose which shooting profile you use, and it is an extra independent shot.
If it can't be clarified, no worries. I'll have the codex in less than a week.
Pretty sure harp is a one shot. If it isnt than you lose the regular weapon for him. Since you can only buy upgrades once per court I doubt you will even see the harp much.
You probably are right in that it is a one shot. If you can fire it each turn though, I could find several uses for it even if I only have one in my army.
Wreckoning wrote:First off, I have to say THANK YOU to Yakface for all the info. It's made the idiocy of GW's version of marketing at least tolerable.
But I have two questions for you, Yakface:
1. Can the Lords/Cryptecs be taken singly AKA not in a court? Doesn't sound like it, but it would be useful, especially for an upcoming tournament at my FLGS.
2. The Deathmarks gun is Strength X. What defines the X?
Oh, and I have to ask for my brother. What the chance that you'll have access to this level of info on the alleged Tau codex in a few months
1) You can only take a Royal Court if you take an Overlord (or comparable named character), but then once you do you can freely split the models off from the Court to lead other units at the start of the game.
2) Yeah, 'X' is because it is a sniper weapon.
BaronIveagh wrote:So, as stated earlier, Necrons are now, more then ever, Tomb Kings in Spaaaaaace.
Thank You, Matt Ward, for taking a Decade of WHF and 40k slowly drifting in their own directions and treating it as though it all never happened.
To blame Mat Ward for the direction the Necrons have taken is like blaming a quarterback for a football loss. Just because he's the most visible person on the team, doesn't mean he made any of the decisions. The entire team, from artists, to sculptors, to writers, to rules developers all decided what direction to take the Necrons.
And yes, they actually decided to make a race that is nuanced and interesting with cultural backstory that affects their behavior, etc.
Trozen wrote:What is getting me is the Harbinger of Transmogrification with the Harp of Dissonance. So you upgrade the Cryptek to replace his shooting weapon, and then upgrade him again to give him a choice of 2? I really hope you don't have to chose which shooting profile you use, and it is an extra independent shot.
If it can't be clarified, no worries. I'll have the codex in less than a week.
It seems as though you get to keep the weapon AND get the harp of dissonance and would just pick which one you wanted to fire each turn (and no, its not a one shot weapon).
Sectiplave wrote:
The Metal Tide wrote:Yak.
Do you have any idea of the stat lines and points for Nemesor Zahndrekh & his loyal bodyguard Vargard Obryon. These are what I intend as getting for my HQ choice.
I'd put money on Nemesor having standard Overlord stats, he comes with the Wargear that provides 2+/3++ as well as a res orb, also considering his unique ability, I'd price him around 190 points.
Vargard sounds like a HQ equivalent Cryptek, so that still leaves him with Cryptek styled S4 and T4, but I'd imagine he would have 2W 2A base. Vargard also has an "uncharacteristic" (For a cryptek) 2+ armour save and a WS of 6, which is actually the highest in the army, he also gains attacks based on how many misses he takes, supported by a unique Veil of Darkness. I'd price him 170 area.
Like mentioned it's an expensive pair of characters when combined, especially since you will have trouble splitting them apart if Nemesor is assaulted, so you want him starting the fights or whoever Obyron was supporting is left all alone, could run them as a pair but it presents a fair few eggs in a single basket per se.
I'm dead keen to use these guys myself, Nemesor sounds like he belongs with a Lychguard shield squad providing them furious charge, I'm curious if you can take just Nemesor and leave Obyron out? Obyron could certainly have good uses with the Ghostwalker Mantle, but he maybe too expensive in smaller armies, and smart opponents will be able to get the assault on you and have Obyron away from whatever unit he was jumping around with.
Both Obyron & Zahndrekh are HQ choices, but Obyron does not take up a slot if included in the same army as Zahndrekh.
They both have Overlord-level stats, although Obyron just has an abnormally high (for a Necron) WS.
yakface wrote:
To blame Mat Ward for the direction the Necrons have taken is like blaming a quarterback for a football loss. Just because he's the most visible person on the team, doesn't mean he made any of the decisions. The entire team, from artists, to sculptors, to writers, to rules developers all decided what direction to take the Necrons.
Yes, but in this case the QB has the nickname 'Butterfingers' and a track record that makes the Cleveland Browns look like the Pittsburgh Steelers. What they needed was John Madden. What they got was Moe Howard.
yakface wrote:
And yes, they actually decided to make a race that is nuanced and interesting with cultural backstory that affects their behavior, etc.
Yakface, I'd have a easier time believing that if they hadn't given them all names that were awful puns (a decision that could have only come from the writer or the marketing department). It's sort of like baking a masterpiece cake for a high society soiree and putting a Sesame street character on the top. Even if it was a cake so fantastic that the clouds would part and Jesus descend streaming trails of glory to have a bite, it would still be hard to take it seriously.
Where are the terrible puns? Imotekh, as has been stated before, is simply a more "futuristic" take on the Egyptian "Imhotep". Trazyn isn't really referring to anything, Nemesor Zahndrekh is the same (even though someone said "zahn drekh" is German for teeth gunk, I think this is more of a coincidence than anything intentional. Illuminor Szeras, nothing really there either. Orikan the Diviner is an obvious "futurising" of the word "oracle", but it still isn't a pun. So yeah, where are they?
I mean, even if there are puns there, they're subtle enough that I didn't notice them, not nearly on the same scale as "Tene Huini" or "Tiqtaq'to". I think you're wanting to see problems and finding ones that don't exist.
tetrisphreak wrote:I wonder how DashofPepper feels about these necron models/rumors?
He's always mentioned in previous posts that playing with necrons was a great thrill for him because he loved winning with an underdog army. Will that be the case, or are these new necrons looking to usurp Dark Eldar as the kings of the Xenos codices?
From the looks of his mini-rant on his/Hulk's blog he isn't at all happy with the changes but hey, we all can't hide behind our Monoliths forever.
Dr. Delorean wrote:Where are the terrible puns? Imotekh, as has been stated before, is simply a more "futuristic" take on the Egyptian "Imhotep".
Try saying it instead of typing it. Now picture herds of nerds saying it. And ponder at how idiotic we'll all look at the table talking about Emo-tech.
Dr. Delorean wrote:Nemesor Zahndrekh is the same (even though someone said "zahn drekh" is German for teeth gunk, I think this is more of a coincidence than anything intentional.
Assuming that the German is right, and I'm correctly remembering that class in Egyptian for long ago: 'Teeth Gunk of the Gold Head Dress'
Dr. Delorean wrote:Illuminor Szeras, nothing really there either.
Assuming that in this case illuminor is illuminator (which fits his back story as far as is known) 'Ceres the Light Bearer' Ceres sought with torches all across the world for Prosperina, who had been taken by Pluto. Someone is a fan of Virgil.
Dr. Delorean wrote: Orikan the Diviner is an obvious "futurising" of the word "oracle"
Dr. Delorean wrote:Where are the terrible puns? Imotekh, as has been stated before, is simply a more "futuristic" take on the Egyptian "Imhotep".
Try saying it instead of typing it. Now picture herds of nerds saying it. And ponder at how idiotic we'll all look at the table talking about Emo-tech.
Dr. Delorean wrote:Nemesor Zahndrekh is the same (even though someone said "zahn drekh" is German for teeth gunk, I think this is more of a coincidence than anything intentional.
Assuming that the German is right, and I'm correctly remembering that class in Egyptian for long ago: 'Teeth Gunk of the Gold Head Dress'
Dr. Delorean wrote:Illuminor Szeras, nothing really there either.
Assuming that in this case illuminor is illuminator (which fits his back story as far as is known) 'Ceres the Light Bearer' Ceres sought with torches all across the world for Prosperina, who had been taken by Pluto. Someone is a fan of Virgil.
Dr. Delorean wrote: Orikan the Diviner is an obvious "futurising" of the word "oracle"
Wrong. You've never seen Farscape, have you?
If all that's true, you shouldn't be bemoaning GW for puns. You should be applauding their in depth research & references. There's a world of difference.
Try saying it instead of typing it. Now picture herds of nerds saying it. And ponder at how idiotic we'll all look at the table talking about Emo-tech.
Really? I've been pronouncing it "I-moe-tech" with a short I sound, like in...well the word "in!" I very much doubt they'd write a name to be pronounced "Emotech", dial down the cynicism dude.
Assuming that the German is right, and I'm correctly remembering that class in Egyptian for long ago: 'Teeth Gunk of the Gold Head Dress'
As I said before, it's a coincidence, not on purpose.
Assuming that in this case illuminor is illuminator (which fits his back story as far as is known) 'Ceres the Light Bearer' Ceres sought with torches all across the world for Prosperina, who had been taken by Pluto. Someone is a fan of Virgil.
Yep, an immediately obvious and unsubtle play on words there, those GW fiends should be tortured for their knowledge of Classic texts. /sarcasm
Wrong. You've never seen Farscape, have you?
And you've never heard of "a difference of opinion". Unless Mat Ward came out of your closet and told you that he named it that way to reference Farscape, my guess is as good as yours, good sir.
• Destroyers: New fluff that says Destroyers are infected with some kind of degenerative virus that causes their sole purpose in life to be to kill their enemies. As such they hate everyone and have the Preferred Enemy special rule against everyone (as do Destroyer Lords).
First the good news: Destroyers have gone down to 40 points (confirmed in WD 382). The bad news is that you can only have 1-3 in a unit (yes you read that right). They are Jump Infantry now. Any model in the unit can upgrade to a Heavy Destroyer (bumping them up to 50 point each, confirmed in WD 382)…so there is no longer a separate unit for Heavy Destroyers you just choose to upgrade some or all of them within the existing Destroyer unit. The Gauss Cannon and Heavy Gauss Cannon are now Assault weapons (to correspond with Destroyers now being JI). The Gauss Cannon has had its AP improved to 3, but lost one shot (down to 2). The Heavy Gauss Cannon is effectively the same (except for being an Assault weapon).
And let's not forget, before Destroyers tended to be the only mid to long-ranged threat in the army. That doesn't have to be the case anymore so I'm guessing that it won't be quite as big a problem to have the smaller units as it would have been fielding them at that size with the old codex.
No hard feelings but 180/3 = 60 ; Heavy Gauss Cannon is +20 pts per model
How do people think the Command Barges are going to do?
I would really like them to do well, and I think delivering a Combat Lord, and Imotekh into the fray would be handy.
I think after Imotekh has used up his first two turns of Night Fighting, and fired his weapons, he'll be a great roadblock for an enemy. With a 2+/3++ 3W, and a Phylactery. Despite not being a power weapon, his Gauntlet isn't a bad weapon at all with the Rerolls to hit and to wound.
All that together points to a very tough roadblock, that can deal well with several threats, while the rest of your army gets into position.
I'm hoping I can put together my Desired lord build within the points cost, but I bet it's going to be close, or not possible, but here is my Idea for a combat lord.
I think loading him up in a command barge, he should hopefully be able to jump into combat by turn 2. He can fire the Tachyon Arrow off early, hopefully destroying an enemy tank early on. At that point he can just zoom around and jump into combat.
I think (although it'd be unreliable) the ability to fly over a unit, decapitate the Sergeant, then get out and mess up the rest of the unit (sans Power Fist) isn't to be underestimated, though you do only get to pick on a 6.
I sure hope that the Tachyon Arrow isn't too heavy on the point cost... it sounds like such a cool option!
And I won't to let my conversion idea of having a Destroyer Lord aiming a high-tech bow at the enemy pass by!
Whit the rules of Imotekh the Stormlord, Flayed ones could be usefull if you can just deepstrike them whitout the scatter stuff. Still they take up an elite slot and that is kinda the problem, if they where troops that would be great.
Dr. Delorean wrote:I think (although it'd be unreliable) the ability to fly over a unit, decapitate the Sergeant, then get out and mess up the rest of the unit (sans Power Fist) isn't to be underestimated, though you do only get to pick on a 6.
I think I'd normally like to hit Vehicles with the Sweep Attack, since the str 7 hitting rear armor gives a pretty good chance to pop it outright. The Taychon Arrow is also a pretty fantastic item as well. Pretty good chance to destroy a Transport Vehicle outright.
The Cornerfag~ wrote:I sure hope that the Tachyon Arrow isn't too heavy on the point cost... it sounds like such a cool option!
And I won't to let my conversion idea of having a Destroyer Lord aiming a high-tech bow at the enemy pass by!
Well, I wouldn't get your hopes up to high.
A Hunter-Killer Missile is 10 points, and a Tachyon Arrow is vastly superior being S10 & AP1.
Similarly, the Phase Shifter is basically a Storm Shield without the negative of impacting the ability to fight with more than one CC weapon, so you'd expect to pay more than a Storm Shield.
So these aren't cheap at all.
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copper.talos wrote:Does Obyron give access to Royal Court? And further more is there a way to have a ResOrb with wraiths other that a destroyer lord?
Good lord people! I have listed every single thing that can take a Royal Court. Obyron is a bodyguard, why would he have a Royal Court?
I've also listed every single place you can get a Rez Orb, so if you don't see it, you can't get it.
Dark Primus wrote:Hopefully if enough Necrons are sold then maybe GW may consider to put in a second wave just months afterwards, just like they did with Dark Eldar.
I can dream, can I?
Phil Kelly said at the OZ games day that they are trying to follow the Dark Eldar release schedule for all future releases.
Dark Primus wrote:Hopefully if enough Necrons are sold then maybe GW may consider to put in a second wave just months afterwards, just like they did with Dark Eldar.
I can dream, can I?
Phil Kelly said at the OZ games day that they are trying to follow the Dark Eldar release schedule for all future releases.
How do people think the Command Barges are going to do?
I am also interested in different opinions concerning the Command Barge. It certainly has its uses, but as of now, do we still get the 2d6 against AV when the lord is equipped with a Warscythe? Normal Warscythes appear to only give +2S and not +1d6 for AP, but if the lord's choice should still provide the 2d6 bonus, it's a no-brainer as it allows you to outright destroy a transport.
How do people think the Command Barges are going to do?
I am also interested in different opinions concerning the Command Barge. It certainly has its uses, but as of now, do we still get the 2W6 against AV when the lord is equipped with a Warscythe? Normal Warscythes appear to only give +2S and not +1W6 for AP, but if the lord's choice should still provide the 2W6 bonus, it's a no-brainer as it allows you to outright destroy a transport.
I don't know what your references to 2W6 or +1W6 mean, but I'm guessing you're talking about the alleged 2D6 penetration bonus that Warscythes have?
If that's the case, the report was false. GW's own website says that Warscythes cannot deal with Land Raiders which tells you that they do not have any bonus penetration abilities beyond the +2 Strength bonus already granted to the user.
And yes, Command Barges do allow the +2 Strength and the ability to ignore armor saves to apply to the sweep attacks made by the Command Barge.
I don't know what your references to 2W6 or +1W6 mean, but I'm guessing you're talking about the alleged 2D6 penetration bonus that Warscythes have?
If that's the case, the report was false. GW's own website says that Warscythes cannot deal with Land Raiders which tells you that they do not have any bonus penetration abilities beyond the +2 Strength bonus already granted to the user.
And yes, Command Barges do allow the +2 Strength and the ability to ignore armor saves to apply to the sweep attacks made by the Command Barge.
Thanks for the clarification yakface, yes, that was my point. It's a pity that we do not get the 2W6 on AP rolls, yet with S7, it still gives us a good chance to pop or seriously damage a vehicle.
Sorry for the "2W6" part, I referred to "2d6", just as you assumed, "2W6" is the German term
Even without the 2D6, STR 7 still has a pretty good chance to pop the Vehicle, since it's hitting on the rear.
Other than that, I still think the Command Barges are pretty nifty. It's still an AV 13 Fast skimmer, So it can zoom, and get to where it needs to be quite quickly.
Seems like a pretty good choice to me, in any lineup.
Depending on points costs and how I'd run my list, I think including a chronometron cryptek in the lord's court when he has a tachyon arrow is mandatory. It's a one-shot, expensive weapon, if one of the 3 critical rolls to get it to work properly (to-hit, to-penetrate, damage table) goes badly I'd like knowing I can step back in time for a few seconds and re-roll that particular dice. It's just a shame the cryptek isn't an IC and can't join a squad of heavy destroyers after the arrow goes off.
