tetrisphreak wrote:Depending on points costs and how I'd run my list, I think including a chronometron cryptek in the lord's court when he has a tachyon arrow is mandatory. It's a one-shot, expensive weapon, if one of the 3 critical rolls to get it to work properly (to-hit, to-penetrate, damage table) goes badly I'd like knowing I can step back in time for a few seconds and re-roll that particular dice. It's just a shame the cryptek isn't an IC and can't join a squad of heavy destroyers after the arrow goes off.
Yes, though I guess that points-wise, it will be quite an expensive combo to have despite its effectiveness.
So I've been thinking about something rather scary. You take the special character that makes the board difficult terrain and a C'tan with the ability to make all difficult dangerous and you roll dawn of war.
Your opponent is playing (insert mechspam here).
He tries to move on with his army. On a 1 or 2, unless they are skimmers, the stop before they can move completely on the table. RaW (and as I understand the rules tossed out by yak) they are then destroyed.
So on DoW I get to play 1500 pts against their 1000, because an entire third of their army eats it before doing anything, transport and all? Broken much?
Also...storm lord + solar pulse in Apoc. S'all I'm saying on that.
tetrisphreak wrote:Depending on points costs and how I'd run my list, I think including a chronometron cryptek in the lord's court when he has a tachyon arrow is mandatory. It's a one-shot, expensive weapon, if one of the 3 critical rolls to get it to work properly (to-hit, to-penetrate, damage table) goes badly I'd like knowing I can step back in time for a few seconds and re-roll that particular dice. It's just a shame the cryptek isn't an IC and can't join a squad of heavy destroyers after the arrow goes off.
Yes, though I guess that points-wise, it will be quite an expensive combo to have despite its effectiveness.
I think taking it on it's own should be ok. It's really not something that's going to be super relied on, but it's a nice little "Extra" if you catch my drift. For the Pen, on A Rhino it's going to Glance on a 1, and Pen on a 2+, with AP 1, this gives a pretty good chance to wreck it outright. With the unlimited range, having one of these in the army is quite handy.
Plus, I'd like to run A lord on a barge, so I couldn't stick a Royal court with him anyway.
Kitzz wrote:So I've been thinking about something rather scary. You take the special character that makes the board difficult terrain and a C'tan with the ability to make all difficult dangerous and you roll dawn of war.
Your opponent is playing (insert mechspam here).
He tries to move on with his army. On a 1 or 2, unless they are skimmers, the stop before they can move completely on the table. RaW (and as I understand the rules tossed out by yak) they are then destroyed.
So on DoW I get to play 1500 pts against their 1000, because an entire third of their army eats it before doing anything, transport and all? Broken much?
Also...storm lord + solar pulse in Apoc. S'all I'm saying on that.
Not quite. The c'tan ability makes dangerous terrain more dangerous (fail on a 1, 2) and difficult terrain regular dangerous (fail on a 1). So there would only be a 1/6 chance your opponent's non skimmer vehicles would be destroyed (along with their cargo) in a DoW mission. In a regular game, immobilizing 1/6 of the enemy's vehicles equates to usually 1 or 2 tanks...but that's 1 or 2 threats you no longer have to deal with until turn 3+, if you so desire, because they're stuck in deployment zone land.
Like all great crazy combos however this one is points limited, you'd be investing (probably) 400+ points between 2 models just for that benefit.
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Sasori wrote:
Sigvatr wrote:
tetrisphreak wrote:Depending on points costs and how I'd run my list, I think including a chronometron cryptek in the lord's court when he has a tachyon arrow is mandatory. It's a one-shot, expensive weapon, if one of the 3 critical rolls to get it to work properly (to-hit, to-penetrate, damage table) goes badly I'd like knowing I can step back in time for a few seconds and re-roll that particular dice. It's just a shame the cryptek isn't an IC and can't join a squad of heavy destroyers after the arrow goes off.
Yes, though I guess that points-wise, it will be quite an expensive combo to have despite its effectiveness.
I think taking it on it's own should be ok. It's really not something that's going to be super relied on, but it's a nice little "Extra" if you catch my drift. For the Pen, on A Rhino it's going to Glance on a 1, and Pen on a 2+, with AP 1, this gives a pretty good chance to wreck it outright. With the unlimited range, having one of these in the army is quite handy.
Plus, I'd like to run A lord on a barge, so I couldn't stick a Royal court with him anyway.
I suppose.
The court i'm running in my head has a couple eldritch lances, the arrow, and the lord with an orb in a backfield support role. Let the peons do the grunt work, I'll manage fine staying back here behind my minions. Boogity Boogity Boogity.
GamzaTheChaos wrote:I really hope the Stormlord to the necrons doesn't become the next Ghaz'gull for what he is to the orks.
I don't want to see 70% of every necron army with him in it =|
I think he adds a lot to the army, but he also requires a combo to reach the full potential of his abilities. So, while I'm sure he will be a very popular choice, I don't think we'll see him in every list.
I think taking it on it's own should be ok. It's really not something that's going to be super relied on, but it's a nice little "Extra" if you catch my drift. For the Pen, on A Rhino it's going to Glance on a 1, and Pen on a 2+, with AP 1, this gives a pretty good chance to wreck it outright. With the unlimited range, having one of these in the army is quite handy.
With my luck on the rolls, I expect my first arrow to score a Crew Stunned result.
Plus, I'd like to run A lord on a barge, so I couldn't stick a Royal court with him anyway.
Yes, a Command Barge is just too good to miss imo. It certainly looks great and nicely blends in with the fluff of a Necron Overlord watching down on his minions...plus: free Overlord model included
Kroothawk wrote: Phil Kelly said at the OZ games day that they are trying to follow the Tyranid release schedule for all future releases.
So, release a few miniatures, repackage others so you get less for more money, and completely ignore other minis? And when other companies decide to release kits to help make those miniatures, take them to court and then seemingly fall apart when it turns out that you don't actually have a case?
1) The fluff rewrite is top notch. Brings Crons up and gives them more of a purpose in the 40K universe.
2) The build options. One of the reasons I like Mat Ward codices is they give a variety of play styles to army inside a codex. You don't have to be one thing or conform. Sure, a particular build may be a better tournament play but I love bringing out a variety of stuff in games and just having fun.
3) The figures. I really like the new figs with multiple weapon options. Sure, they have more TK feel but not in a bad way...IMO.
4) My existing collection doesn't feel useless. Warriors, Monoliths, Destroyers, C'tan and Wraiths should be a win and mix well with the new items. I might actually field my Heavy Destroyers now as they won't be the first thing targeted by my opponents as the "Only" anti-tank unit on the field. I really think Destroyers are better too with AP3 and less shots and a lower cost. I never had much luck trying to pop a lot of armor with them and when faced with RazorSpam/Chimeras they were neutured.
My brother pointed out something strange to me today. The boxes for warriors, immortals/deathmarks and lychguard/praetorians all cost £20,50. Yet the immortals and lychguard sets cost €26 and the warriors box €30..
Robbietobbie wrote:My brother pointed out something strange to me today. The boxes for warriors, immortals/deathmarks and lychguard/praetorians all cost £20,50. Yet the immortals and lychguard sets cost €26 and the warriors box €30..
Any valid explanations for this I am missing?
For the US, it's 33$ and 35$ respectively. No idea why the prices are like that.
Robbietobbie wrote:My brother pointed out something strange to me today. The boxes for warriors, immortals/deathmarks and lychguard/praetorians all cost £20,50. Yet the immortals and lychguard sets cost €26 and the warriors box €30..
Any valid explanations for this I am missing?
Pricing error? It does seem odd.
Could be they are trying to attract more British customers.
Thanks a million for your dedication and patience Yakface.
So I've been going things over and something's been eating me.
The Stormlord.
While a huge pile of Special Rules... it seems like he might not be as good as all that and a bag of chips.
--Nightfighting is 2d6 x3 IIRC. On avg that's vision of 21" which is...about 1/2 the field. I suppose that makes Devastators and the like useless, but when I think about Objective games where you'll be getting closer to the enemy...I start having my doubts.
And the lightning strikes...sound fine but unreliable.
Lack of a Res Orb or Warscythe bothers me as well...but with Str5 his re-rolls in CC are fine I suppose.
I'm just doubting his usefulness after the first turn or two. Most of what you're paying for seems to be "start of game" or "early game" abilities that are randomized.
What he actually brings to the table after the game has begun is limited/randomized protection for some of your units, and a 1 shot mini death ray.
Not saying he's bad just...strikes me that he might lose steam quick. Maybe I'm underestimating the Nightfighting/Lightning bolts?
I'd love counter points.
C'tan.
The lack of the Deceiver's CC tricks makes me sad. (leaving combat)...but they seem alright.
I'm curious though--is there ever a practical reason to take the manifestation that makes your strikes Entropic? You're an MC after all. If you're in CC with vehicles you should be putting them down easily enough. And as for getting rid of models Armor Save...how many models are likely to survive CC with a C'tan?
Darligulv wrote:Thanks a million for your dedication and patience Yakface.
So I've been going things over and something's been eating me.
The Stormlord.
While a huge pile of Special Rules... it seems like he might not be as good as all that and a bag of chips.
--Nightfighting is 2d6 x3 IIRC. On avg that's vision of 21" which is...about 1/2 the field. I suppose that makes Devastators and the like useless, but when I think about Objective games where you'll be getting closer to the enemy...I start having my doubts.
And the lightning strikes...sound fine but unreliable.
Lack of a Res Orb or Warscythe bothers me as well...but with Str5 his re-rolls in CC are fine I suppose.
I'm just doubting his usefulness after the first turn or two. Most of what you're paying for seems to be "start of game" or "early game" abilities that are randomized.
What he actually brings to the table after the game has begun is limited/randomized protection for some of your units, and a 1 shot mini death ray.
Not saying he's bad just...strikes me that he might lose steam quick. Maybe I'm underestimating the Nightfighting/Lightning bolts?
I'd love counter points.
C'tan.
The lack of the Deceiver's CC tricks makes me sad. (leaving combat)...but they seem alright.
I'm curious though--is there ever a practical reason to take the manifestation that makes your strikes Entropic? You're an MC after all. If you're in CC with vehicles you should be putting them down easily enough. And as for getting rid of models Armor Save...how many models are likely to survive CC with a C'tan?
If the vehicle somehow manages to survive CC against the C'tan, it won't in the shooting phase. It's an insurance thing really.
Darligulv wrote:Thanks a million for your dedication and patience Yakface.
So I've been going things over and something's been eating me.
The Stormlord.
While a huge pile of Special Rules... it seems like he might not be as good as all that and a bag of chips.
--Nightfighting is 2d6 x3 IIRC. On avg that's vision of 21" which is...about 1/2 the field. I suppose that makes Devastators and the like useless, but when I think about Objective games where you'll be getting closer to the enemy...I start having my doubts.
And the lightning strikes...sound fine but unreliable.
Lack of a Res Orb or Warscythe bothers me as well...but with Str5 his re-rolls in CC are fine I suppose.
I'm just doubting his usefulness after the first turn or two. Most of what you're paying for seems to be "start of game" or "early game" abilities that are randomized.
What he actually brings to the table after the game has begun is limited/randomized protection for some of your units, and a 1 shot mini death ray.
Not saying he's bad just...strikes me that he might lose steam quick. Maybe I'm underestimating the Nightfighting/Lightning bolts?
I'd love counter points.
C'tan.
The lack of the Deceiver's CC tricks makes me sad. (leaving combat)...but they seem alright.
I'm curious though--is there ever a practical reason to take the manifestation that makes your strikes Entropic? You're an MC after all. If you're in CC with vehicles you should be putting them down easily enough. And as for getting rid of models Armor Save...how many models are likely to survive CC with a C'tan?
If the vehicle somehow manages to survive CC against the C'tan, it won't in the shooting phase. It's an insurance thing really.
Plus it's likely to be one of the cheaper options. As you're forced to take 2 powers, taking a bargain cheap one may be useful sometimes.
On the subject of the command barge, am I the only one, who really likes the idea of having Trazyn on it? We now have a fast skimmer that is also scoring. It's a shame though, because I don't think you'll be able to use his special wound everyone abilities, because it happens at the end of a round of combat, unless I'm reading it wrong.
BSent wrote:On the subject of the command barge, am I the only one, who really likes the idea of having Trazyn on it? We now have a fast skimmer that is also scoring. It's a shame though, because I don't think you'll be able to use his special wound everyone abilities, because it happens at the end of a round of combat, unless I'm reading it wrong.
It's a shame he can't take a Royal Court! I'm sure I'll give Trazyn a good shot, but he seems to be hit or miss as to usefulness with the Armies he goes up against. An impossible to kill Scoring IC doesn't hurt though!
As to the Stormlord, I agree that past the first few turns, he loses steam. Necrons however are an important Alpha Strike like first. They need to decimate the Enemy as fast as possible, while taking minimum losses themselves. The First two turns are going to be crucial to the Necron player, and the Stormlord provides a pretty good insurance that he will be able to accomplish those turns, without the enemy being able to do to much damage. After that, he makes an excellent roadblock, and should be able to tie up enemy units for a turn or two, while you deal with other threats on the board.
BSent wrote:On the subject of the command barge, am I the only one, who really likes the idea of having Trazyn on it? We now have a fast skimmer that is also scoring. It's a shame though, because I don't think you'll be able to use his special wound everyone abilities, because it happens at the end of a round of combat, unless I'm reading it wrong.
According to the info provided by Yakface, in order to use his special ability, you need to be locked in CC and since you are not locked in CC when you sweep over an enemy unit / AV, you are not allowed to use his special ability...unfortunately. Furthermore, his sweeping attacks will only be S5 thus will hardly be a threat to vehicles. The only thing you actually gain by giving him a transport is the high mobility that might allow you to draw or even win a game by capturing an objective in the very last round.
Then again, he is 175 points and his special ability is not very good against most armies (read: MEQ) out there...he does not even have a power weapon!
I mean, he is not a bad choice, he can still shine, but his one CC special ability is rather hum-hum.
Darligulv wrote:The Stormlord.
While a huge pile of Special Rules... it seems like he might not be as good as all that and a bag of chips.
--Nightfighting is 2d6 x3 IIRC. On avg that's vision of 21" which is...about 1/2 the field. I suppose that makes Devastators and the like useless, but when I think about Objective games where you'll be getting closer to the enemy...I start having my doubts.
And the lightning strikes...sound fine but unreliable.
As any Tau player how useful night fighting really is? When the average range of sight is greater than the range on your guns, or the enemy has no issues at all about getting close to you, it really is useless. There is a reason you don't see many stealth suits on the table anymore.
I don't think people will be winning games because of the stormlord and his night fighting. You can protect yourself from long range shooting, but once things move closer I really don't see this particular special ability being all that game breaking. Necrons still look like they will die pretty handily in HTH. No reason to not get close.
Ask any space wolf player how useful night fighting is when the missiles are out of range, whereas you can turn OFF night fghting to shoot down their long range fire.
This gives necrons 1 - 2 turns of shooting to punish armies that heavily rely on long range, sit back shooting (so, all current sub 2k GK builds, then) while AV13 minimum knocks out al the S6 shooting from doing anything.
The fact everything is AV13 should seriously worry razorback spack GK players, coupled with psyriflemen who cant sit back and do anything for 2 turns any longer. This will MASSIVELY change the sub2k meta, and only for the better
So can we assume that there will be wraiths and tomb spiders in the second wave since there is no model at all available on the site now? Finecast re-do or new sculpt, either way.
nosferatu1001 wrote:This will MASSIVELY change the sub2k meta, and only for the better
Get real. For that to happen the Necrons themselves would have to be scary shooty -- An army that only sits back and shoots with insane firepower and you can't shoot back at them because you can't see them. Then their only vulnerability would be assaults. Too bad that the Necrons aren't shooty at all in comparison to the metagame powerhouses you mentioned. Secondly there's these things called searchlights that are available to all imperial players (free for IG) and now people actually get to use them. Now there's not even a drawback for the spotter because the Necrons see every unit anyway because of the pulse.
Before any of the Space Tomb King fanboys jumps on me and tells me not to call Necrons a mid/low tier army before we actually see them in action, I'm just responding to a guy who claims the Necrons will somehow massively influence the metagame. It's a Tyranid release. A weakish but playable book between some awesome books. Good for whoever that is next I guess
Triarch Stalker seem cool but they seem like a fire support and utility item from everything I have read. Do we have any information if it has dreadnought close combat weapon or what the base STR of walker will be?
Nightfighting is pretty awesome when you can control the way necrons seem to be able to, you are Immune to shooting from further than 36" away and the chances of spotted from 24"-36" are very low. Your opponent has to make a lot of consistently above average rolls to damage Necron Vehicles early game.
I am bummed that Destroyer lords can't take a court as my initial idea for a list was something like this.
2x Destroyer lord, warsythe Res Orb
2x Cryptek with Solar Pulse
Warriors in arks
2x6 Wraiths
but now that we know that list isn't possible I'm going back to the drawing board.
Balor wrote: Triarch Stalker seem cool but they seem like a fire support and utility item from everything I have read. Do we have any information if it has dreadnought close combat weapon or what the base STR of walker will be?
It's hilarious how bad the Stalker and C'tan seem to be. As a continuation joke and a comparison, if the baby carriage Dreadknight with the personal teleporter was in the Necron codex it would be one of the best units available. For Marine players though stuff like that never even gets to see the table since they have more versatile options.
P.S. I'll go away now, don't let me spoil your party.
BladeWalker wrote:So can we assume that there will be wraiths and tomb spiders in the second wave since there is no model at all available on the site now? Finecast re-do or new sculpt, either way.
I'm assuming Wraiths will just be a Finecast re-do. The models were fine, maybe the best-looking in the 2002 line. But from the changes that seem to be coming to Tomb Spyders, I have to assume they'll be updating the sculpt. I hope so anyway. The current model is very stiff...it's hard to imagine one moving 12". (Also, as yak stated earlier: "The artwork makes them look much more flying and nimble, like giant Scarabs.")
I asked this earlier, but no one seemed very sure...: any idea how long we'll have to wait for wave 2? Or as a comparison, how long of a gap was there between wave 1 and 2 of Dark Eldar models? (I was not playing at that time.) I'm hoping we don't have to wait too long...I'm thinking my ideal list will have at least 6 Wraiths, 2 Tomb Spyders, and maybe a couple Stalkers.
Therion wrote:
It's hilarious how bad the Stalker and C'tan seem to be. As a continuation joke and a comparison, if the baby carriage Dreadknight with the personal teleporter was in the Necron codex it would be one of the best units available. For Marine players though stuff like that never even gets to see the table since they have more versatile options.
They do seem pretty bad tbh.
I mean if something of equal points in the codex can do the same job as another thing but better--Then that's that.
(200-300 points of Wraiths, could probably outdo any C'tan Manifestation combo in just about anything for example).
Idk about the Stalker yet. TL your One shots could be helpful...AV13 on a walker isn't bad...but we'll see for it's BS,WS, S, and point cost.
Kroothawk wrote:
Phil Kelly said at the OZ games day that they are trying to follow the TyranidDark Eldar release schedule for all future releases.
So, release a few miniatures, repackage others so you get less for more money, and completely ignore other minis? And when other companies decide to release kits to help make those miniatures, take them to court and then seemingly fall apart when it turns out that you don't actually have a case?
Yeah, that sounds like GW.
That's the actual quote. The person above you (infinite array) was joking when he said Tyranids. Quite a smart joke I admit...
nosferatu1001 wrote:Ask any space wolf player how useful night fighting is when the missiles are out of range, whereas you can turn OFF night fghting to shoot down their long range fire.
This gives necrons 1 - 2 turns of shooting to punish armies that heavily rely on long range, sit back shooting (so, all current sub 2k GK builds, then) while AV13 minimum knocks out al the S6 shooting from doing anything.
The fact everything is AV13 should seriously worry razorback spack GK players, coupled with psyriflemen who cant sit back and do anything for 2 turns any longer. This will MASSIVELY change the sub2k meta, and only for the better
Searchlights on Razorbacks are 1 pt each. Spot the transports with your razorbacks, then bust them open with the autocannon dreads. GK will be moving too as their optimal range is 24'' for shooting. I don't think it will change the meta as much as you think.
My issue with the C'tan is the 4++ and the amount of poison shoots in the game. Every marine player I know that can take Sternguard uses at least one unit as they are just so good. Nids now have poison but you will most likely get stealer shocked before you really need to worry about poison. DE just laugh at anyone that has models that have higher then T4 on the table as the cost of the extra toughness is out the window.
I know this codex will suffer form the fact that it is Xenos and not imperial but I'm still very happy to get a newer codex.
Searchlights on Razorbacks are 1 pt each. Spot the transports with your razorbacks, then bust them open with the autocannon dreads. GK will be moving too as their optimal range is 24'' for shooting. I don't think it will change the meta as much as you think.
And the most distressing bit of this--to me is that if players do what they gotta do against Necrons (searchlight a few key targets, then blow it to bits) we've almost completely negated the Stormlord's main advantage.
I'll of course try him out... but at this point I might be leaning towards two generic lords in Catacomb Command Barges with more sustainable wargear. Hopefully for around the same cost as 1 Stormlord. (Don't know how much those Barges cost). Take Crypteks for 2 rounds of defensive nightfighting at the start instead. (As your chances of going first will be lower without Stormlord, nightfighting on their first turn sounds good to me).
Searchlights on Razorbacks are 1 pt each. Spot the transports with your razorbacks, then bust them open with the autocannon dreads. GK will be moving too as their optimal range is 24'' for shooting. I don't think it will change the meta as much as you think.
And the most distressing bit of this--to me is that if players do what they gotta do against Necrons (searchlight a few key targets, then blow it to bits) we've almost completely negated the Stormlord's main advantage.
I'll of course try him out... but at this point I might be leaning towards two generic lords in Catacomb Command Barges with more sustainable wargear. Hopefully for around the same cost as 1 Stormlord. (Don't know how much those Barges cost). Take Crypteks for 2 rounds of defensive nightfighting at the start instead. (As your chances of going first will be lower without Stormlord, nightfighting on their first turn sounds good to me).
And while all new MEQ Codices state you have to pay for that searchlight in the 'nilla Marine 'dex we get 'em for free, guess there is a bonus to playing Smurfs
People seem to be putting a lot of stock in searchlights but you still have to roll to spot the enemy, you can pretty easily get two turns of safety from enemy shooting
If your roll fails to spot the enemy any subsequent units firing at the enemy can target it freely. the roll is for the unit with searchlights to also be able to fire its weapons at the target.
Scout-boosting vendettas are probably the scariest searchlight available, or baal predators, in terms of being able to get close and easily spot key targets.
Still, s8 weaponry will only strip our quantum shielding on a to-pen roll of 6. I'd say that's about as good a chance to survive as any xenos is going to have vs missilespam.
Also, to Kitzz, I was incorrect in my earlier post. I gave it some additional thought and i realized that since vehicles treat difficult terrain as dangerous, making the entire board difficult with Special HQ man, then using the c'tan power, will make enemy vehicles Immobilized on a 1,2. That's pretty freaking strong for a passive ability.
Xenos usually get the short end of the stick with codices (tyranids, anyone?) but if this release is anywhere as good as the DE codex that came out last year, we necron players should not have trouble adapting and competing to the current tournament scene.
Just been thinking, Nemesor Zandreks ability says any friendly unit can be given one of the rules (according to Yaks summary). With that in mind, giving a C'tan shard furious charge would give you a S8 I5 model on the turn it charges I can see some michief occuring in upcoming games.
Also, big thanks to Yakface for compiling the summary and keeping it up to date!
The_Stormrider wrote:If your roll fails to spot the enemy any subsequent units firing at the enemy can target it freely. the roll is for the unit with searchlights to also be able to fire its weapons at the target.
This is from the Blood Angels Codex but I assume its the same for all.
"If a vehicle has a searchlight it must still use the night fighting rules to pick a target but, having acquired a target, will illuminate it with the searchlight. For the rest of the shooting phase any other unit that fires at the Illuminated unit does not use night fighting rules."
Maybe people think the necron rules look so horrible because they don't actually know the rules very well
I'm not sure how we can pass any judgement on the Triarch Stalker without knowing its point cost. Its abilities seem good on paper unless I'm missing something.
I personally believe that at best we'll just make it to mid tier, maybe better than Tyranids but I worse than DE for sure. But at this point even barely scraping the surface of mid tier would be great. I mean we Necron players are already used to sucking anyway!
I feel like a lot of the potential Necron tricks will rely on Crypteks and HQ gear because only a few of the units standout as being blatantly good to me. However I think for all the cool combos we can come up they are going to be severely limited by absurd point costs.
Oh well here's to another decade of being kinda meh! Cheers!
Zachilles wrote:People seem to be putting a lot of stock in searchlights but you still have to roll to spot the enemy, you can pretty easily get two turns of safety from enemy shooting
You haven't played against Imperial Parking lot...errr... Gaurd much, have you?
The_Stormrider wrote:If your roll fails to spot the enemy any subsequent units firing at the enemy can target it freely. the roll is for the unit with searchlights to also be able to fire its weapons at the target.
No, if the searchlight doesn't roll high enough to spot the enemy they are 'scanning the darkness' and thus the target is not automatically lit up. You need to succeed in your 2d6 x 3 check for a spotlight to work.
I really don't feel like going through 142 some odd pages to see if this has been asked so please forgive me. According to the rumors that I've seen Necrons have no psychic defense what so ever. Did I just miss it or what?
The Unforgiven Saint wrote:I really don't feel like going through 142 some odd pages to see if this has been asked so please forgive me. According to the rumors that I've seen Necrons have no psychic defense what so ever. Did I just miss it or what?
Yes you did. Spyders can nullify psi powers on a 4+.
The Unforgiven Saint wrote:I really don't feel like going through 142 some odd pages to see if this has been asked so please forgive me. According to the rumors that I've seen Necrons have no psychic defense what so ever. Did I just miss it or what?
Yes you did. Spyders can nullify psi powers on a 4+.
Glad to see people have mentioned the RIGHT rules for searchlights....
either way, if you're over 36" away you arent being shot, even with searchlights. So your barges can sit back and happily shoot out the S8 psyriflemen for 2 turns, leaving the S6 shooting from the psybacks
You dont need to be "scary" shooty when you can shut down an opponents shooting for 2 turns, and have AV13 vehicles across the board to stop their mass S6 shooting from having any effect (and dramatically reducing mass psycannon fire as well) while your wraiths and scarabs get their and wreck face.
Yeah I was clearly wrong on that one. Even still, with 12'' first turn movement, and smoke launchers available on most vehicles I don't see how it buys you more than one turn extra. I think you'll just see forces deploy farther forward against necrons and move forward since dreads can move and shoot.
Zachilles wrote:People seem to be putting a lot of stock in searchlights but you still have to roll to spot the enemy, you can pretty easily get two turns of safety from enemy shooting
You haven't played against Imperial Parking lot...errr... Gaurd much, have you?
I could see a couple of doom scythes doing nasty things to that parking lot if you get them in range.
Zachilles wrote:People seem to be putting a lot of stock in searchlights but you still have to roll to spot the enemy, you can pretty easily get two turns of safety from enemy shooting
You haven't played against Imperial Parking lot...errr... Gaurd much, have you?
I could see a couple of doom scythes doing nasty things to that parking lot if you get them in range.
Unless they have a rule that makes them immune to ord, I'm skeptical. The last parkinglot I faced off against was autocannon chimeras (FW was allowed) surrounding two demolishers and a vanquisher with pask and a mixed bag of regular IG and meltavets. I hate to say it but in grand old IG tradition, nothing saves you from the guy that has to spend fifteen min rolling BS.
Zachilles wrote:People seem to be putting a lot of stock in searchlights but you still have to roll to spot the enemy, you can pretty easily get two turns of safety from enemy shooting
You haven't played against Imperial Parking lot...errr... Gaurd much, have you?
I could see a couple of doom scythes doing nasty things to that parking lot if you get them in range.
Unless they have a rule that makes them immune to ord, I'm skeptical. The last parkinglot I faced off against was autocannon chimeras (FW was allowed) surrounding two demolishers and a vanquisher with pask and a mixed bag of regular IG and meltavets. I hate to say it but in grand old IG tradition, nothing saves you from the guy that has to spend fifteen min rolling BS.
Stormrider - and if they move towards you your wraiths and scarabs hit them, and suddenly AV11 is AV4 and AV12 walkers are AV5
The current MSU min maxed GK 1500 - 1850 lists rely on shooting you to death - they have no real CC punch (5 purifiers with 2 psycannon is not "punch") and cannot cope with that much reaching them.
A fast, flying, S10 AP1 line-of-death seems like a good counter to the Parking Lot of Doom. You can't see it (night fight) and when you CAN see it, it has the lolI'mavendetta cover save.
Even if it doesn't get to lay down the proverbial smack, it's going to take a lot of shooting to actually get through to it. A lot of shooting which is then not going elsewhere.
I dunno about the Doom Scythe. Getting it in range is going to be the real trick, and at AV 11, even with supersonic and nightfighting, I'd say it's still got a pretty good chance to get blown up. At nearly 200 points each, that could cripple us. It's a High Risk, High Reward unit though, that's for sure.
Well, taking down a high-speed vendetta is a complete arse even outside of nightfighting. I know this much because I've made good use of it with my guard. 200points is steep, but the Scythe is one of those threats that you absolutely /have/ to deal with, or suffer painful, painful losses. Which, hopefully, will be enough to distract people while your grunts close in for the gauss flaying.
Drachii wrote:Well, taking down a high-speed vendetta is a complete arse even outside of nightfighting. I know this much because I've made good use of it with my guard. 200points is steep, but the Scythe is one of those threats that you absolutely /have/ to deal with, or suffer painful, painful losses. Which, hopefully, will be enough to distract people while your grunts close in for the gauss flaying.
Vendettas are also AV 12 on the front and Sides. The flyer is faster, but suffers from AV 11. it is a major threat, but any real sort of Anti-Tank fire is going to down it quite quickly.
Drachii wrote:Well, taking down a high-speed vendetta is a complete arse even outside of nightfighting. I know this much because I've made good use of it with my guard. 200points is steep, but the Scythe is one of those threats that you absolutely /have/ to deal with, or suffer painful, painful losses. Which, hopefully, will be enough to distract people while your grunts close in for the gauss flaying.
Vendettas are also AV 12 on the front and Sides. The flyer is faster, but suffers from AV 11. it is a major threat, but any real sort of Anti-Tank fire is going to down it quite quickly.
Maybe, just maybe, and I am aware of the fact that it's more like very wishful thinking right now, it gets QS on release / in the FAQ. Necron players all over the world would rejoice.
You have to figure: 12" move + 12" range + 3" minimum line = 27" minimum range for a given target, average of 10-11" on the roll gives you 34-35" range. There certainly is risk involved, as a lot of it will come down to their NF roll (avg 21") vs your distance roll. However, you are almost guaranteed to get to at least one target of your choosing, and in most cases, are likely to cripple or destroy it. Make smart choices on what's worth the sacrifice.
I'm still liking the idea of Trazyn on a CCBarge. I'd feel pretty comfortable exchanging mid-game shaken and stunned results for wounds on Trazyn given that even if he doesn't get back up there's a 5/6 chance that he'll pop up somewhere else.
It is a real shame that you can't use his special attack from the CCBarge, however. It's also too bad that he can't take a court! Play him with a full court and at least 1 unit of Lychguard so that he has plenty of target bodies to pop into!
Drachii wrote:Well, taking down a high-speed vendetta is a complete arse even outside of nightfighting. I know this much because I've made good use of it with my guard. 200points is steep, but the Scythe is one of those threats that you absolutely /have/ to deal with, or suffer painful, painful losses. Which, hopefully, will be enough to distract people while your grunts close in for the gauss flaying.
Vendettas are also AV 12 on the front and Sides. The flyer is faster, but suffers from AV 11. it is a major threat, but any real sort of Anti-Tank fire is going to down it quite quickly.
provided you know what AT to look for, you could try and snipe it out with a Tachyon Arrow; not necessarily reliable, but if we're already spending the points on a Doom Scythe, why not?
you can also Deep Strike a squad of Heavy Destroyers right behind them -- or near them, i guess, if they try to hug their edge of the table -- and go "ha HA! that was just a 200 point RUSE!"
Drachii wrote:Well, taking down a high-speed vendetta is a complete arse even outside of nightfighting. I know this much because I've made good use of it with my guard. 200points is steep, but the Scythe is one of those threats that you absolutely /have/ to deal with, or suffer painful, painful losses. Which, hopefully, will be enough to distract people while your grunts close in for the gauss flaying.
Vendettas are also AV 12 on the front and Sides. The flyer is faster, but suffers from AV 11. it is a major threat, but any real sort of Anti-Tank fire is going to down it quite quickly.
Maybe, just maybe, and I am aware of the fact that it's more like very wishful thinking right now, it gets QS on release / in the FAQ. Necron players all over the world would rejoice.
I doubt that. I think it's far more likely that there will be new rules for flyers in 6th Ed. Quantum shielding on this vehicle, and non open topped, would be too good.
You have to figure: 12" move + 12" range + 3" minimum line = 27" minimum range for a given target, average of 10-11" on the roll gives you 34-35" range. There certainly is risk involved, as a lot of it will come down to their NF roll (avg 21") vs your distance roll. However, you are almost guaranteed to get to at least one target of your choosing, and in most cases, are likely to cripple or destroy it. Make smart choices on what's worth the sacrifice.
If they can survive the first turn of shooting, then they are going to do a lot of damage. but having it survive that is going to be crucial. Even with a cover save, I think it's quite likely to get destroyed that first turn. I'm sure I'm going to give a shot in a few games, but I just see it getting blown up first turn, every turn.
rovided you know what AT to look for, you could try and snipe it out with a Tachyon Arrow; not necessarily reliable, but if we're already spending the points on a Doom Scythe, why not?
you can also Deep Strike a squad of Heavy Destroyers right behind them -- or near them, i guess, if they try to hug their edge of the table -- and go "ha HA! that was just a 200 point RUSE!"
Well, I already plan to take at least one Tachyon arrow in my list for hitting an enemy tank early on. This doesn't help with everything though (I.E. Longfangs) I'd say wasting a Doom Scythe for a group of heavy destroyers would be pretty silly. The Doom Scythe can hit a lot more targets with it's STR 10 AP1 "Line" While the heavy destroyers can still only hit one target with their weapons.
Sasori wrote:I doubt that. I think it's far more likely that there will be new rules for flyers in 6th Ed. Quantum shielding on this vehicle, and non open topped, would be too good.
Yeah, I wouldn't be holding my breath on the flyers getting QS. As much as I'd giggle like a school girl, that would just be evil and wrong.
Sasori wrote:I doubt that. I think it's far more likely that there will be new rules for flyers in 6th Ed. Quantum shielding on this vehicle, and non open topped, would be too good.
Yeah, I wouldn't be holding my breath on the flyers getting QS. As much as I'd giggle like a school girl, that would just be evil and wrong.
btw, love the rank Sasori
Yeah, we just need to keep in mind this book was written with 6th in mind, so a few things are not going to make sense right away.
And thanks, It's a special rank just for my favorite 'Crons!
Sasori wrote:I doubt that. I think it's far more likely that there will be new rules for flyers in 6th Ed. Quantum shielding on this vehicle, and non open topped, would be too good.
The rumored rules make flyers harder to hit, at least outside of 12" that is.
Well, regardless of what GW does for flyers in 6th, I don't think you'll see QS on them. That being said, seeing as they are the new expensive toys they are trying to fit into every army, I'm sure GW will try to make them the bee's knees in 6th.
Maelstrom808 wrote: As much as I'd giggle like a school girl, that would just be evil and wrong.
Someone said GK?
Yes, just as I said, it's very unlikely that they get QS, yet...something is necessary to keep them alive else we'll just see them acting as giant fireworks, exploding in the very first turn.
@Nosferatu- I'm looking forward to the challenge that Necrons may pose to any msu transport based army. I do feel that depending on how Necron Stormlord lists shake out the weight of fire from razorbacks/purifiers/ac dreads might instead get expended on scarabs/wraiths/destroyers or other units not in transports. I don't deny that target priority and movement tactics will change due to the necron lists, but I think that the metagame will be very similar until 6th edition.
Maelstrom808 wrote:You have to figure: 12" move + 12" range + 3" minimum line = 27" minimum range for a given target, average of 10-11" on the roll gives you 34-35" range. There certainly is risk involved, as a lot of it will come down to their NF roll (avg 21") vs your distance roll. However, you are almost guaranteed to get to at least one target of your choosing, and in most cases, are likely to cripple or destroy it. Make smart choices on what's worth the sacrifice.
It'll be interesting to say the least trying to get this off.
I'd vote for having it hang out in the back till at least one enemy unit is at least 27" away.
So after looking through the White Dwarf, I'm pretty scared of the new Doomsday Ark. Is anyone else? 72" Range large blast template, str 9, ap 1. Those are some crazy stats. Sure, it can only get those stats when stationary, and you could always move out of LoS, but god forbid you get in that things LoS, and with 72" range, it has a good potential to hit anything on a board.
Take 2 or 3, and its expensive, but its also scary stuff. Anyone agree?
SoulGazer wrote:Hide the Doom Scythe behind a Monolith or two until you're certain it'll do some damage. Make them work for the kill.
With the old Living Metal rule buried in the past (manly robot tears were shed ), our Monoliths no longer are the massive bulwarks they used to be thus I'd handle them a bit more careful now.
SoulGazer wrote:Hide the Doom Scythe behind a Monolith or two until you're certain it'll do some damage. Make them work for the kill.
With the old Living Metal rule buried in the past (manly robot tears were shed ), our Monoliths no longer are the massive bulwarks they used to be thus I'd handle them a bit more careful now.
Yeah, makes me very sad, but they're still AV14. I mean, you don't see anyone treating Land Raiders like they're made of paper. Smoke, I know, but still... I refuse to use my 'Liths as anything but troop-spawning walls of death, as they should be!
Cryage wrote:So with Lychguard, you guys going warscythes or blade + shield? I'm thinking sword + shield combo is best
Tech Guard wrote:Is it just me or is mat ward really hard to understand?
I think the music was just too loud, way too loud to understand his mumbling
I am hoping for mixed weapon units, but it seems unlikely for some reason. I want to be fielding warscythes but I know that the shield/sword is probably better. Visually, I like the warscythes just a bit more, but I want to have some of each.
I can't fathom taking 3 c'tan, mostly because i have the 2 sculpts and I don't feel like buying a duplicate sculpt. However, 2 c'tan and a medium/large squad of lycheguard marching up behind a monolith can be formidable.
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Cryage wrote:Does anybody happen to know yet if you could have a squad of 5x lychguard with warscythes and in the same unit have 5x lychguards with shields/swords?
No, it's been stated by Yakface multiple times that lychguard must all be equipped identically.
tetrisphreak wrote:I can't fathom taking 3 c'tan, mostly because i have the 2 sculpts and I don't feel like buying a duplicate sculpt. However, 2 c'tan and a medium/large squad of lycheguard marching up behind a monolith can be formidable.
Build one yourself. The C'tan shards have no model, make anything. I'm waiting for the first one using the phantom zone glass window thingy from Superman.
tetrisphreak wrote:
No, it's been stated by Yakface multiple times that lychguard must all be equipped identically.
I know, and that really sucks too. If it could be a combination of the 2, it would be really great. I don't want them to die at the first plasma cannon that looks at them, but I don't want them to be stuck at strength 5 either.
Strength 5 is pretty good vs most infantry. Our tank-hunting should be done by shooty units anyhow, really. I'll take the extra survivability afforded by the shields at the loss of wounding on a 2+ (because we'll wound meq's on 3+ instead...not terrible at all)
tetrisphreak wrote:I can't fathom taking 3 c'tan, mostly because i have the 2 sculpts and I don't feel like buying a duplicate sculpt. However, 2 c'tan and a medium/large squad of lycheguard marching up behind a monolith can be formidable.
That would certainly be really cheesy though...I mean, yes, some codices are definitely cheesy by default and Necrons are unlikely to be top tier even with the new codex, but the image of a monolith with a bunch of followers in his trail certainly isn't the first image that comes to my mind when I think of a Necron army
No offense, it might certainly be a viable and effective tactic, but when I want to play cheesy, I could have just started playing GK instead of Necrons.
tetrisphreak wrote:Our tank-hunting should be done by shooty units anyhow, really.
tetrisphreak wrote:
No, it's been stated by Yakface multiple times that lychguard must all be equipped identically.
I know, and that really sucks too. If it could be a combination of the 2, it would be really great. I don't want them to die at the first plasma cannon that looks at them, but I don't want them to be stuck at strength 5 either.
Just have Nemesor Zandrekh give them furious charge.
tetrisphreak wrote:Strength 5 is pretty good vs most infantry. Our tank-hunting should be done by shooty units anyhow, really. I'll take the extra survivability afforded by the shields at the loss of wounding on a 2+ (because we'll wound meq's on 3+ instead...not terrible at all)
Out of the 2, the shields are definitely the best, especially with them being able to "reflect" shots. That being said, if you could have 1-2 warscythes in there, it would turn a good unit into a great one.
tetrisphreak wrote:
No, it's been stated by Yakface multiple times that lychguard must all be equipped identically.
I know, and that really sucks too. If it could be a combination of the 2, it would be really great. I don't want them to die at the first plasma cannon that looks at them, but I don't want them to be stuck at strength 5 either.
Just have Nemesor Zandrekh give them furious charge.
And put the bodyguard and a lord in there for some str 8 power weapons on a charge
tetrisphreak wrote:
No, it's been stated by Yakface multiple times that lychguard must all be equipped identically.
I know, and that really sucks too. If it could be a combination of the 2, it would be really great. I don't want them to die at the first plasma cannon that looks at them, but I don't want them to be stuck at strength 5 either.
Just have Nemesor Zandrekh give them furious charge.
And put the bodyguard and a lord in there for some str 8 power weapons on a charge
tetrisphreak wrote:Strength 5 is pretty good vs most infantry. Our tank-hunting should be done by shooty units anyhow, really. I'll take the extra survivability afforded by the shields at the loss of wounding on a 2+ (because we'll wound meq's on 3+ instead...not terrible at all)
Very true, and against terminators with hammers / power fists, we're still striking first.
Edit: can a unit of lychguard or flayed ones assault after teleporting through the 'lith?
I cannot see a good reason to run Warscythe Lychguard, the survivability that the Void sheild adds is easily the optimal choice. Further support Void sheild Lychguard with a res orb and they are actually a VERY resilient combat unit, top this off that with the shield they still have S5 power weapon attacks that will strike before double strength power weapons, so they are still hitting very hard.
I'll be running Nemesor, so including a warscythe lord and adding furious charge would indeed give you some S8 power weapon hits in there, the key part that isn't being discussed is we have no assault vehicles so these guys getting the charge is going to be the part you have to plan well, or you want to be supporting them with popped vehicles in your shooting turn so AV weaponry is really important.
This is why one of the first things I will look up is the Triarch Stalker stat line and point costs.
tetrisphreak wrote:I can't fathom taking 3 c'tan, mostly because i have the 2 sculpts and I don't feel like buying a duplicate sculpt. However, 2 c'tan and a medium/large squad of lycheguard marching up behind a monolith can be formidable.
Best of luck getting somewhere at 6" movement each turn ^^
I cannot see a good reason to run Warscythe Lychguard, the survivability that the Void sheild adds is easily the optimal choice. Further support Void sheild Lychguard with a res orb and they are actually a VERY resilient combat unit, top this off that with the shield they still have S5 power weapon attacks that will strike before double strength power weapons, so they are still hitting very hard.
Yeah thats my thoughts as well - I mean with the shields, they are basically Grey Knight terminators that have "hammerhand" cast all the time, WITH a higher toughness, ALSO having reanimation protocols... I cant wait to see the points cost on these guys
I cannot see a good reason to run Warscythe Lychguard, the survivability that the Void sheild adds is easily the optimal choice. Further support Void sheild Lychguard with a res orb and they are actually a VERY resilient combat unit, top this off that with the shield they still have S5 power weapon attacks that will strike before double strength power weapons, so they are still hitting very hard.
Yeah thats my thoughts as well - I mean with the shields, they are basically Grey Knight terminators that have "hammerhand" cast all the time, WITH a higher toughness, ALSO having reanimation protocols... I cant wait to see the points cost on these guys
Its a bit more punchy than Matt Ward's Necron Vid on the GW site I wouldn't get too hung up on Lychguard, 18 Wraiths with whips is where the smart moeny will be going.
Sir Harry Flashman, VC wrote:Its a bit more punchy than Matt Ward's Necron Vid on the GW site I wouldn't get too hung up on Lychguard, 18 Wraiths with whips is where the smart moeny will be going.
True enough, just good luck finding wraiths now... ebay's are all either broken, have bad paint jobs, or are going for $40+ each.
Sir Harry Flashman, VC wrote:Its a bit more punchy than Matt Ward's Necron Vid on the GW site I wouldn't get too hung up on Lychguard, 18 Wraiths with whips is where the smart moeny will be going.
True enough, just good luck finding wraiths now... ebay's are all either broken, have bad paint jobs, or are going for $40+ each.
King Pariah suggested a really cool conversion:
If you buy an Ark (and you will!), you get 10 Necron Warrior models. Each of them has a sort of long spinal cord right at their back that might be used for a Wraith's tail. Simply use the bodies in the box, add the heads and the spine cord along with a good base, a bit re-sculpting, a bit Green Stuff (shoulder pads, cloths, etc.) and you got about 10 Wraiths ready to tear someone to shreds.
The only big problem is that the arms in the Ark box are stuck to the torso thus you either have to re-sculpt the part (remove the arms, use them as new ones and maybe put some "cloth" on the ruined parts on the chest) or simply use normal warrior bodies instead...yet that's another problem as you will have to use almost an entire Warrior box for said conversion and end up having 22 legs you can't use.
Then again, you could also keep the normal Ark bodies and live with the fact that your Wraiths have such a pose...fluff-wise, they are supposed to be guardians anyway
aboytervigon wrote:So what do you think on my situation.
I'd go for the Lychguard, they are much more reliable and might even survive some shooting due to their 4++...yet...I'd rather take Wraiths.
^^ That's not a bad idea, I'll try it out with my first doomsday ark when I have those left over - if we get any done quickly I'd like to see some peoples pics
I prefer the latter as it looks a lot more dynamic and both ways are really cheap - you buy a box of Warriors (should be about 18€) and get the stuff to convert them to 12 Wraiths plus get 3 more scarab bases that could also be used to make a nice base. Should be about 20-25€ for 12 Wraiths...about 1,90€ per Wraith? Sounds awesome to me!
DarknessEternal wrote:I'm worried this is going to become just another transport-spam army.
I plan to run a pair of Monoliths up the middle as a Roomba-charge, with Destroyer wings sweeping at the flanks. Maybe even a couple of 5-man Warrior squads in front of the Monoliths. if the Warriors get charged, they'll die, and whatever killed them will get sucked up by the portals.
Also, with an Overlord or IC on the Command Barge, does anyone else envision a Green Goblin sorta thing? If I pick one up, I might modify it to resemble a Goblin Glider.
Aldaris wrote:Ha! Good one. Yeah, from what is known so far it should work.
Remember, though, that this will force the Cryptek to stay with Imotekh, he can't join another unit then. But...that certainly is a good combo that might really piss some people off. Not that I'd care, we Necron players suffered long enough and if it should make a IG parking lot player angry...even better.
This is from 1d4Chan on Trazyn the infinite.
Creed just met his match ^^
The best Necron Lord. Basically what you'll get if you combined Doctor Doom, a Tomb King, a Bloody Magpie and the Terminator.
"A war-torn city in the Ultramar system. The Ultramarines, aided by an Imperial Guard regiment led by Lord Castellan Ursarkar Creed, prepares to face an Ork incursion in a final battle. The Orks are numerous, but the Imperium has the upper hand, just barely, as Lord Creed's tactical genious has proven invaluable. As the Orks begin their final assault on the city, the Ultramarines ready their defenses. Creed, ever oddly silent, gazes intently at a large flagpole in the center of town, watching through binocs as the Orks' charge is funneled towards the center of the city. Suddenly, as the Orks near the square, the tip of a Baneblade's main gun can be seen coming around the flagpole. The great tank begins to emerge from behind the thin metal object, perfectly and impossibly concealed. It begins to move into its firing arc, and a great shout is heard from the Warboss down below, just barely carrying over the rest of the din. "CREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE-" Suddenly, the cry cuts off in confusing, as Creed spits out his cigar. Where the Baneblade once stood, there is air, thin air. Not a trace remains of the enormous tank. It has vanished completely. Then, gradually, a green, crackling, electrical rune appears hanging in the air where the Baneblade was. It extends gracefully, for its platonic geometric form. If Creed was given to poetry, he might even say it resembled a rose. But he knew better. A rage he had felt only once before began to boil deep within, and his cry shook the world as the Orkish tide began to slaughter his guardsmen and be slaughtered by marines in turn. "TRAAAAAAAAAAAAZYYYYYYYYN!"
Kitzz wrote:So if I took the Stormlord with the cryptek that allows re-rolls, could I re-roll the die to try and get night fight for a further turn?
aboytervigon wrote:True, but it's gonna be like 60pts to keep night fight workin'.
But you can't just think of it as 60 points to keep Night Fighting up for another turn. You have to think of it as 60 points to keep Night Fighting up, and 1 in 6 enemy units are being bombarded by Str 8 attacks for another turn. And that, to me, is worth 60 points each and every time. I'd pay that price all day long.
Personally, I don't normally like the idea of an attack that will only work 17% of the time, but considering how many MSU armies I face, I'm willing to make an exception in Imotekh's case. I love the idea of 2-3 of my opponent's Troops units being pelted with lightning every turn. And given that one of my friends plays BA with 10 tanks at 1750, I am all about changing my tactics in favour of the lightning bug.
Kitzz wrote:So if I took the Stormlord with the cryptek that allows re-rolls, could I re-roll the die to try and get night fight for a further turn?
aboytervigon wrote:True, but it's gonna be like 60pts to keep night fight workin'.
But you can't just think of it as 60 points to keep Night Fighting up for another turn. You have to think of it as 60 points to keep Night Fighting up, and 1 in 6 enemy units are being bombarded by Str 8 attacks for another turn. And that, to me, is worth 60 points each and every time. I'd pay that price all day long.
Personally, I don't normally like the idea of an attack that will only work 17% of the time, but considering how many MSU armies I face, I'm willing to make an exception in Imotekh's case. I love the idea of 2-3 of my opponent's Troops units being pelted with lightning every turn. And given that one of my friends plays BA with 10 tanks at 1750, I am all about changing my tactics in favour of the lightning bug.
It was noted that only the night fight from the Stormlord will shoot lightning strikes, thus solar pulsed night fight wont shoot the bolts. With that said it would be silly to not include at least one solar pulse, probably both. It is too tactically valuable to be able to shut down an opposing shooting phase.
He has a special rule that makes the first turn of the game be night fighting no matter what the mission and he can try to extend the rule into further turns by rolling higher than the current turn number on a D6...in addition, while the Night Fighting rules are in effect at the start of the Necron Shooting phase you roll a D6 for each unengaged enemy unit and on a roll of '6' suffer D6 S8 AP5 hits (as they are hit by lightning strikes). Vehicles get hit on their side armor.
And as a nice combo to this there is a Cryptek ability called 'solar pulse' which allows (once per game) at the start of any turn (friend or foe) for the Night Fighting rules to be cancelled for that turn (or apply if the Night Fighting rules weren't in effect when the pulse was launched...although Night Fighting created by a Solar Pulse does not generate Lightning Strikes against enemy units).
To me, this sounds like you'd really lose the lightning part if you used Solar Pulse during your turn...it would be awesome if Yakface could clear this up!
Kitzz wrote:So if I took the Stormlord with the cryptek that allows re-rolls, could I re-roll the die to try and get night fight for a further turn?
aboytervigon wrote:True, but it's gonna be like 60pts to keep night fight workin'.
But you can't just think of it as 60 points to keep Night Fighting up for another turn. You have to think of it as 60 points to keep Night Fighting up, and 1 in 6 enemy units are being bombarded by Str 8 attacks for another turn. And that, to me, is worth 60 points each and every time. I'd pay that price all day long.
Personally, I don't normally like the idea of an attack that will only work 17% of the time, but considering how many MSU armies I face, I'm willing to make an exception in Imotekh's case. I love the idea of 2-3 of my opponent's Troops units being pelted with lightning every turn. And given that one of my friends plays BA with 10 tanks at 1750, I am all about changing my tactics in favour of the lightning bug.
It was noted that only the night fight from the Stormlord will shoot lightning strikes, thus solar pulsed night fight wont shoot the bolts. With that said it would be silly to not include at least one solar pulse, probably both. It is too tactically valuable to be able to shut down an opposing shooting phase.
This has nothing to do with Solar Pulse. I believe the idea is to use the Cryptek's wargear that allows 1 re-roll each phase on Imotekh's skill. So if it's turn 3, and I roll a 2, normally Imotekh's thunderstorm would end. But that would make us all sad pandas, so we instead use the Cryptek's re-roll ability, and re-roll Imotekh's skill to see if the thunderstorm persists. If it works, it really is a beautiful tactic, and well worth the 60-ish points that it'll cost.
He has a special rule that makes the first turn of the game be night fighting no matter what the mission and he can try to extend the rule into further turns by rolling higher than the current turn number on a D6...in addition, while the Night Fighting rules are in effect at the start of the Necron Shooting phase you roll a D6 for each unengaged enemy unit and on a roll of '6' suffer D6 S8 AP5 hits (as they are hit by lightning strikes). Vehicles get hit on their side armor.
And as a nice combo to this there is a Cryptek ability called 'solar pulse' which allows (once per game) at the start of any turn (friend or foe) for the Night Fighting rules to be cancelled for that turn (or apply if the Night Fighting rules weren't in effect when the pulse was launched...although Night Fighting created by a Solar Pulse does not generate Lightning Strikes against enemy units).
To me, this sounds like you'd really lose the lightning part if you used Solar Pulse during your turn...it would be awesome if Yakface could clear this up!
The codex isn't out yet, so there isn't anyone that can say with the kind of certainty you're looking for.
He has a special rule that makes the first turn of the game be night fighting no matter what the mission and he can try to extend the rule into further turns by rolling higher than the current turn number on a D6...in addition, while the Night Fighting rules are in effect at the start of the Necron Shooting phase you roll a D6 for each unengaged enemy unit and on a roll of '6' suffer D6 S8 AP5 hits (as they are hit by lightning strikes). Vehicles get hit on their side armor.
And as a nice combo to this there is a Cryptek ability called 'solar pulse' which allows (once per game) at the start of any turn (friend or foe) for the Night Fighting rules to be cancelled for that turn (or apply if the Night Fighting rules weren't in effect when the pulse was launched...although Night Fighting created by a Solar Pulse does not generate Lightning Strikes against enemy units).
To me, this sounds like you'd really lose the lightning part if you used Solar Pulse during your turn...it would be awesome if Yakface could clear this up!
Why would you lose the lightning?
Grey Knight Turn 1: Night Fighting in effect. Necron Turn 1: Night Fighting in effect. Lightning strikes at the start of the Shooting Phase. Solar Pulse is used during shooting phase, after the lightning. Night Fighting is cancelled until the end of the player turn. Grey Knight Turn 2: Roll D6 to determine if the Night Fighting is in effect once again. Necron Turn 2: If Night Fighting is in effect once again, then lightning strikes at the start of the Shooting Phase. Rinse, repeat.
Solar Pulse must be used at the beginning of a turn, not phase.
puma713 wrote:
The codex isn't out yet, so there isn't anyone that can say with the kind of certainty you're looking for.
I am well aware of this fact, yet Yakface's information is the closest thing we have right now. Furthermore, let's not forget about the usual FAQ that tends to screw armies over from time to time.
Without the codex in hand to cross reference rules we won't be sure until the end of this week. However from a fluff standpoint it doesn't make sense that a super-advanced flare gun would nullify the clouds/lightning caused by the IC. We will see.
It is possible that this release actually forces me to start playing the game for the first time since I was given an introduction game 5 odd years ago...
The Solar Pulse only cancels out night fighting on the TURN it is used (which means player turn).
So unless you're using the Solar Pulse to cancel night fight on your opponent's turn (and why would you do that) then it will be night fight in your opponent's turn and they will get hit by Imotekh's lighting storm.
If you use Solar Pulse during your OWN turn, then you would cancel night fighting during your turn only, leaving Night Fighting in effect in your opponent's turn to be hit by Imotekh's lightning.
yakface wrote:
The Solar Pulse only cancels out night fighting on the TURN it is used (which means player turn).
So unless you're using the Solar Pulse to cancel night fight on your opponent's turn (and why would you do that) then it will be night fight in your opponent's turn and they will get hit by Imotekh's lighting storm.
If you use Solar Pulse during your OWN turn, then you would cancel night fighting during your turn only, leaving Night Fighting in effect in your opponent's turn to be hit by Imotekh's lightning.
In the summary, it says that the Lightning Strikes happen during the Necron Shooting phase.
Had been assuming that would limit the effectiveness of Solar Pulse + Stormlord, since if you wanted to cancel Night Fighting to get your own long-range shooting out, you'd forfeit the lightning strikes.
corpsesarefun wrote:It is possible that this release actually forces me to start playing the game for the first time since I was given an introduction game 5 odd years ago...
Wait, what?
You're telling me that you have over 5700 posts on a message board dedicated to warhammer, and you played one game 5 years ago?
Yakface, I think the issue is the Lightning Strikes seem to take place during the Necron player's shooting phase, not their opponent's. If i'm wrong, I'm wrong, but that's how it appears to work in the White Dwarf Battle report (which is all the concrete evidence I have to work from at the moment).
corpsesarefun wrote:It is possible that this release actually forces me to start playing the game for the first time since I was given an introduction game 5 odd years ago...
Wait, what?
You're telling me that you have over 5700 posts on a message board dedicated to warhammer, and you played one game 5 years ago?
Yep pretty much.
I have done some modelling since then I'm just not a massive gamer.
corpsesarefun wrote:It is possible that this release actually forces me to start playing the game for the first time since I was given an introduction game 5 odd years ago...
Wait, what?
You're telling me that you have over 5700 posts on a message board dedicated to warhammer, and you played one game 5 years ago?
It was alright, nothing too interesting really. It was 500 points, I played necrons, my relatively experienced opponent was playing ultramarines and he won pretty quickly.
corpsesarefun wrote:It was alright, nothing too interesting really. It was 500 points, I played necrons, my relatively experienced opponent was playing ultramarines and he won pretty quickly.
Ohh. So thats he reason you didn't pick up the hobby properly.
Nope, I really don't care about winning and have little in the way of competitive spirit I just never really got into it, probably because there isn't much in the way of FLGS's here (the intro game was in a GW shop) and none of my mates play I suppose.
That said I have found a friendly local gaming group, I just need to get a playable army.
I know we won't get our invulnerable-ignoring c'tan. I get that. But even tyranids get a CC monster that forces invulnerable saves to be re-rolled. Is it too much to wishlist, then, that c'tan lose the ability to ignore invulnerables but gain a clause that says 'successful inv. saves must be re-rolled" akin to swarmlord?
I keep telling myself "No, you just got tau, you cant do 4 40k armys". But then someone mentions the Matrix and necrons in the same sentence, and the urge comes back again.
tetrisphreak wrote:So I just had a wish-list thought:
I know we won't get our invulnerable-ignoring c'tan. I get that. But even tyranids get a CC monster that forces invulnerable saves to be re-rolled. Is it too much to wishlist, then, that c'tan lose the ability to ignore invulnerables but gain a clause that says 'successful inv. saves must be re-rolled" akin to swarmlord?
Just wondering if anybody else had that thought.
Precisely my thought.
Swarmlord and Null Zone get to do it. And something else, I think, though I don't remember what.
Plus Shieldbreaker Round.
I do like that nothing completely negates Invuln Saves, as much fun as I had with it, but I do wish we got just that, the reroll.
The guy hacking a tank or Zandrack
with a royal court, sporting
cryptek with assault defensive grenades, staff of light
cryptek with the rerroll a d6 a turn and 3++
2lords, warscythe, phaseshifter, mindschackle
1lord, Warscythe, phaseshifter, orb
One or Two Tachyon Arrows
Ctan, stealth&Grenades, Lascannon
3*10 Warriors
3*3 Destroyers
2 Monoliths
advancing this to when new wraiths come , to get a unit destroyers out for wraiths led by a destroyer lord.
Question:
A court can have a member break off and join each unit.
If you have two courts, can each have a member join a single unit?
So I have a unit of 10 Immortals, can I have a Cryptek from Court A join it and a Lord from Court B also join it? Or two 'teks, one from each?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Another question: are stat tests always made on the model's base stat? If I have Wraiths with Whip Coils in combat with the same unit as a C'Tan, can I make the I1 model make an Initiative test or die at I1, or does he use his normal Initiative?
Drachii wrote:A fast, flying, S10 AP1 line-of-death seems like a good counter to the Parking Lot of Doom. You can't see it (night fight) and when you CAN see it, it has the lolI'mavendetta cover save.
Even if it doesn't get to lay down the proverbial smack, it's going to take a lot of shooting to actually get through to it. A lot of shooting which is then not going elsewhere.
... not really. IG has too many ways to deny cover save.
It's been a while since I looked at night fighting, so I may be wrong, but I don't recall it having any effect on indirect shooting or barrage rules. Since it is still a cover save, IG arty can still deny it.
"Barrage and Ordnance barrage weapons can still fire at targets in the dark, but if they do and fail to roll a hit, they add an extra d6" to the distance scattered."
So yeah, an effect, but not much of one, at least 1/3 of the time.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Another question: are stat tests always made on the model's base stat? If I have Wraiths with Whip Coils in combat with the same unit as a C'Tan, can I make the I1 model make an Initiative test or die at I1, or does he use his normal Initiative?
That depends on how the rule is worded. If the rule says that the enemies in base to base strike at I1, then no, they test at normal initiative. If the rule says that enemies in base to base have their Initiative reduced to 1, then yes, they test at I1. That answer requires a codex in hand to give properly.
"Barrage and Ordnance barrage weapons can still fire at targets in the dark, but if they do and fail to roll a hit, they add an extra d6" to the distance scattered."
So yeah, an effect, but not much of one, at least 1/3 of the time.
So if im getting you right you dont have to take a distance check in night fight with Barrage and Ordnance barrage weapons?
Can those contemplating C'Tan spam please explain?
C'Tan just seem much worse that the last Codex (loss of special abilities like Misdirect, loss of attacks ignoring invulnerable saves, loss of T, etc.). Also, the special abilities they gain are not that exciting, even if they were free.
Basically, I'd much prefer the older versions for the same costs.
Zachilles wrote:People seem to be putting a lot of stock in searchlights but you still have to roll to spot the enemy, you can pretty easily get two turns of safety from enemy shooting
You haven't played against Imperial Parking lot...errr... Gaurd much, have you?
I could see a couple of doom scythes doing nasty things to that parking lot if you get them in range.
I know that this is a few pages old (pg. 142) but...
I just have to mention that the previously mentioned range of the doom scythe is, more than likely, understating the danger they represent. 12" move + 12" range + 3" line is the minimum distance they can kill you from. The average distance they'll be able to affect you from is actually 12" + 12" + ( 3.5" x 3 = [ 10.5" ] ) = 34-35". Combine that with The Stormlord's ability to seize the initiative on a 4+ and trying to gut the parking lot isn't looking like too bad an option.
Also, I know it's a habit from Phase Out, but am I the only one that absolutely hate's minimum size squads? Necrons are still I2 so, assuming your enemy can get *something* into CC following your shooting, taking minimum size immortal/warrior squads is just begging to get savaged by assault squad survivors. Also, you don't get to take RP rolls if the squad gets wiped out. It's a LOT easier to mop up a 5-model squad than it is a 10 or 20 model one.
The only downside I ever encounter is sweeping advance. God I *hate* sweeping advance...
Hmm...I hope the new lack of PO doesn't turn necrons into a manditory MSU army. I find them irritating to play. Both as, and against.
bluebomber wrote:
So if im getting you right you dont have to take a distance check in night fight with Barrage and Ordnance barrage weapons?
I did not know that
No they don't. But, they do tend to miss completely quite a bit more when they can't see you. Running a fast skimmer into spotting distance on purpose can be fun too if they didn't spring for spotlights. that extra D6" scatter makes drifting shots back onto their own infantry much more likely.
tetrisphreak wrote:Yakface, I think the issue is the Lightning Strikes seem to take place during the Necron player's shooting phase, not their opponent's. If i'm wrong, I'm wrong, but that's how it appears to work in the White Dwarf Battle report (which is all the concrete evidence I have to work from at the moment).
Whoops! My bad, I got that totally mixed up.
Yeah, the Solar Pulse cancels Night Fighting for the player turn its used, so if you use it on your own turn you will be losing Imotekh's lightning strikes for that turn.
I know that this is a few pages old (pg. 142) but...
I just have to mention that the previously mentioned range of the doom scythe is, more than likely, understating the danger they represent. 12" move + 12" range + 3" line is the minimum distance they can kill you from. The average distance they'll be able to affect you from is actually 12" + 12" + ( 3.5" x 3 = [ 10.5" ] ) = 34-35". Combine that with The Stormlord's ability to seize the initiative on a 4+ and trying to gut the parking lot isn't looking like too bad an option.
i did actually point out the minimum and average ranges if you read a few posts further on.
I was just wondering. Being in New Zealand will I get my codex delivered to me before others, because Saturday starts a little earlier for me than others. Or is the release set at england being the first to have models released and therefore I will get a little delay before receiving the goods?
I know that this is a few pages old (pg. 142) but...
I just have to mention that the previously mentioned range of the doom scythe is, more than likely, understating the danger they represent. 12" move + 12" range + 3" line is the minimum distance they can kill you from. The average distance they'll be able to affect you from is actually 12" + 12" + ( 3.5" x 3 = [ 10.5" ] ) = 34-35". Combine that with The Stormlord's ability to seize the initiative on a 4+ and trying to gut the parking lot isn't looking like too bad an option.
i did actually point out the minimum and average ranges if you read a few posts further on.
In my defense, there's a lot to read. Oh well.
I want to combine a monolith with the transport version of the Doom Scythe.
"Go ahead and blow up the transport. I've got a 'lith in reserve..."
Should be fun with the named Cryptek that allows you to reroll your reserve rolls.
Mezmaron wrote:Can those contemplating C'Tan spam please explain?
The C'Tan are the reason I picked up the Necrons in the first place.
I just like the concept.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
yakface wrote:
tetrisphreak wrote:Yakface, I think the issue is the Lightning Strikes seem to take place during the Necron player's shooting phase, not their opponent's. If i'm wrong, I'm wrong, but that's how it appears to work in the White Dwarf Battle report (which is all the concrete evidence I have to work from at the moment).
Whoops! My bad, I got that totally mixed up.
Yeah, the Solar Pulse cancels Night Fighting for the player turn its used, so if you use it on your own turn you will be losing Imotekh's lightning strikes for that turn.
Hmm. Are the Solar Pulses used explicitly at the beginning of the turn? Or beginning of the shooting phase? Or can you let the lightning fire off, and -then- light up the night?
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:
Hmm. Are the Solar Pulses used explicitly at the beginning of the turn? Or beginning of the shooting phase? Or can you let the lightning fire off, and -then- light up the night?
I'm starting to notice something that I'm really not a fan of: the new Necron codex seems to have an answer for every type of unit, every possible threat that I can think of. But I'm not seeing a single Necron unit type that can solve more than one problematic situation. What this is leading me to conclude is that the Necrons feel like they've been designed as a counter-army to other armies; somewhat incapable of being effective on their own. That is, I don't think it will be possible to have a take-all-comers Necron army anymore. This bothers me for two reasons: first, because it requires the Necron player to tailor his army with prior knowledge of the opposing army he will be facing. And second, it requires Necron players to own most unit types, despite many of them only fielding them once in a while. (Honestly, it doesn't sound like the C'Tan will ever see much action) And I truly dislike the idea of being required to own 4000 points of Necrons just to have the required selection in order to ever play 1500-point games competitively.
Maybe it's just my paranoia, but thinking about it like this, my first thought is about what a predatory marketing ploy it would be, to virtually require players to purchase pieces in great excess of what is necessary to play, just to be able to play competitively.
Oh well. Maybe I'm completely wrong and the new codex will have some wonderful surprise for me.
Depending on the royal court situation 2nd might be a destroyer lord to send with wraiths. If he can't take a court, then more lychguard for monolithing I guess
darkslife wrote:Thats the plan - 1 with the lychguard.
Depending on the royal court situation 2nd might be a destroyer lord to send with wraiths. If he can't take a court, then more lychguard for monolithing I guess
I was thinking the same thing D Lord with wraiths and a res orb as long as he can join thier squad i see that as a power combo even tho you may want to keep them seperate so the Lord doesnt lose his T 6 up to you
But he'll be an independent character yes? so he will keep his T6 where it matters. And so long as you take your wraiths with different things would allocation can deliver him into CC without damage.
I keep hearing that the weakness of the upcoming Necron codex and the strength of the last Grey Knight codex is all balanced in 6th edition. Let's hope that's next summer, I feel like I'm part of some involuntary beta test
tetrisphreak wrote:Yakface, I think the issue is the Lightning Strikes seem to take place during the Necron player's shooting phase, not their opponent's. If i'm wrong, I'm wrong, but that's how it appears to work in the White Dwarf Battle report (which is all the concrete evidence I have to work from at the moment).
Whoops! My bad, I got that totally mixed up.
Yeah, the Solar Pulse cancels Night Fighting for the player turn its used, so if you use it on your own turn you will be losing Imotekh's lightning strikes for that turn.
It's a bit unfornunte. I was thinking I could use the Solar pulse after the strikes hit. He is looking a lot less appealing now. I don't know if the rest of his gear is worth it, with that in mind.
I may just end up taking two overlords now, With Tachyon arrows.
Sasori wrote:It's a bit unfornunte. I was thinking I could use the Solar pulse after the strikes hit. He is looking a lot less appealing now. I don't know if the rest of his gear is worth it, with that in mind.
I may just end up taking two overlords now, With Tachyon arrows.
Yes, my thoughts exactly. Tachyon arrow is just too good to miss and with the points you save by not using Imotekh, you could easily afford those two lords. My main problem with Imotekh is that he costs almost as much as a C'Tan shard...and his special ability now seems to be hum-hum. It's easily countered by extremely cheap searchlights, lucky rolls and forces you to either choose between the lightnings or shooting yourself. Hmmm.
I'm thinking of buying 3 Destroyers but would love to have at least 1 of them with replaceable Heavy Destroyer weapon/torso.
Can any1 confirm / correct following speculation (not sure what's exactly inside the boxes as I only ever bought 1 Destroyer Lord):
Necron Destroyer:
- all plastic
- all parts needed to make normal Destroyer = whole sprue
Necron Heavy Destroyer
- all parts needed to make normal Destroyer = whole sprue
- metal torso with metal Heavy Gauss Cannon
- only one "destroyer left hand" = cannot make both torsos (one would be missing hand)
Necron Destroyer Lord
- all parts needed to make normal Destroyer = whole sprue
- metal lord torso with 2 different sets of arms (orb/scarab bracelet) and 2 weapons - Staff of Light / Warscythe
In the white dwarf it shows a pic of the Necron heirarchy in the Sautekh Dynasty. Next to the name Nemesor Zahndrekh there was a portrait of what appeared to be a Necron lord with a scythe. Is this what he is gong to look like or is it totally unrelated to anything???
Sasori wrote:It's a bit unfornunte. I was thinking I could use the Solar pulse after the strikes hit. He is looking a lot less appealing now. I don't know if the rest of his gear is worth it, with that in mind.
I may just end up taking two overlords now, With Tachyon arrows.
Yes, my thoughts exactly. Tachyon arrow is just too good to miss and with the points you save by not using Imotekh, you could easily afford those two lords. My main problem with Imotekh is that he costs almost as much as a C'Tan shard...and his special ability now seems to be hum-hum. It's easily countered by extremely cheap searchlights, lucky rolls and forces you to either choose between the lightnings or shooting yourself. Hmmm.
We'll have to see. Imotekh is by no means bad, he still has some great wargear, and the Seize on a 4+. It's just his lightning strikes are good, but not good enough to deny our entire army a turn of shooting.
I suspect I'm going to end up running two combat lords on Barges, with Tachyon Arrows. And of course have two Solar Pulses in the court. I'll probably throw in 2 harps as well. Knocking that Landraider down to AV 12 first turn will have a pretty major impact.
In the white dwarf it shows a pic of the Necron heirarchy in the Sautekh Dynasty. Next to the name Nemesor Zahndrekh there was a portrait of what appeared to be a Necron lord with a scythe. Is this what he is gong to look like or is it totally unrelated to anything???
I don't think it will be. When they show that hierarchy they use an old, OOLLLDDDDDDDD necron image from 3rd edition or earlier, it made me assume they just recycled sketches from random robot things in the past and just put them in that article.
In the white dwarf it shows a pic of the Necron heirarchy in the Sautekh Dynasty. Next to the name Nemesor Zahndrekh there was a portrait of what appeared to be a Necron lord with a scythe. Is this what he is gong to look like or is it totally unrelated to anything???
I don't think it will be. When they show that hierarchy they use an old, OOLLLDDDDDDDD necron image from 3rd edition or earlier, it made me assume they just recycled sketches from random robot things in the past and just put them in that article.
I am not unhappy to see him named Zanndrekh in the localized WD. Got rid of that 'h' for now.
One thing I read in WD and spotted in the pics is the new plastic 'heavy infantry' ie 3+ save models are bulkier than the warriors and look as they added in size also vertically.
Yeah, one thing the models don't show (since they aren't put next to anything 'cept the same models) is how freakin' huge some of the new infantry is. There's a picture in the WD of the Stormlord and some Praetorians standing next to a unit of space marines, and ol' Stormy is about a 1/3 taller again than the sergeant, same with the Praetorians.
GrumpyJester wrote:I keep hearing that the weakness of the upcoming Necron codex and the strength of the last Grey Knight codex is all balanced in 6th edition. Let's hope that's next summer, I feel like I'm part of some involuntary beta test
Hey GrumpyJester
What you need to do is play games vs. GK at low, med and high points to get a better feel about them. They are easier to deal with at more points as you will have more tools to take them on.
If you really want to breakdown the poor game development of GK get their codex and vanilla Codex: Marines as this is a very good base line to compare with. Codex Marines is already getting free stuff with special rules and war gear being marines. So now you need a calculator and some paper.
Lets compare GK Strike Squad cost vs if you built them form the codex marine book as that one is still on the cheap side of things as they are marines.
Marine + power weapon + stormbolter is “do the math” pts if based off of codex marine codex tactical costs…(look up the points for yourself as I can’t post points but they are just under a termis cost). Now we add in the force weapon + special grenades + psychic power + psychic protection + daemon bane + PE (daemons) is hard to quantify the assigned value of these items but it can be anything from the cost of a ork boy to the cost of a Possessed CSM elite choose. Sorry for the rant but that is just one area of the extreme miss pointed and wrongly developed area of that codex.
I have nothing against GK players! GK player really needed a new codex and I love seeing the old codexs replaced to have the old vets of those army playing and relearning the game but poor game development really hurts the game I love.
Three other friends and myself are really waiting for 6th in hopes it will change things after the Superman GK and the horrible thing they did to Sisters of Battle in the WD.
Here's to 6th ed and the new Necron codex in hopes WG will start turning things around.
The thing about Imotekh to me is that you don't want to turn off Night Fighting, you want it to last as long as possible and then you want to use your Solar Pulses after its done to give the opponent 2 more turns of Night Fighting (while you don't have it). The only way I'd use the Solar Pulse in my own turn would be if its like turn 4 and the Night Fighting is still going...that way you still have 1 Solar Pulse left for turn 5 in case night fighting ends and you want to make sure your opponent has one more turn in the night.
The reason I say this is because the Necrons are mid to short ranged shooting army, besides the 72" Doomsday Ark, of course.
That means, for the most part I think you'd WANT to be fighting in the night...but the key here is you don't go flying forward into the enemy, thereby allowing them to use searchlights, etc to decimate you.
Instead, you basically give up the first few turns of the game essentially sitting in the dark and letting your lightning do a little bit of damage to the enemy. If your opponent loses patience and drives some stuff up to use searchlights, etc, then you basically get a situation where his whole army is firing at whatever unit you decide to put at the front of your army (say a Warrior unit backed up a Ghost Ark to keep building more guys) and then your whole army is firing back and destroying that one thing that moved forward.
The point being, any turn that you deny your opponent's long range weapons from shooting at their desired (premium) target is a turn you're basically winning the battle as you whittle them down.
Hell, its pretty likely that Imotekh's night fighting will last 3 turns naturally and then you can use two solar pulses to have 5 turns of night fighting for your opponent (the last two of which you can see just fine)...even 6 or 7 turns is bound to happen in some games.
So you're playing to sit back and then make your move in the last few turns counting on the fact that you'll hopefully have whittled them down enough and the fact that they only have a few turns left that you can move onto the objectives and claim them. I guess you're probably just playing for a tie in capture and control then, but in Kill Points or multi-objective missions I think this could totally work.
And of course another option to combo in would be to take the C'Tan with the power that makes all difficult into dangerous. I think this is a terrific combo for Imotekh because in night fight, the games become much more based around maneuver than shooting, and making it so your opponent is afraid to move through or into terrain is HUGE.
Throw in a couple units of regular Destroyers and all of a sudden you start to make your opponent worry with any AP3 guys who are exposed...stay out of cover and risk the Destroyers getting a shot (especially late in the game when your shooting is not at 'night' but your opponent still is due to solar pulses) or go into cover and take dangerous terrain damage. Not to mention the 'night' makes protecting your C'Tan from long-ranged firepower quite easy.
And in either case, keeping at least one max-size unit of Scarabs in the midst of your army sitting in the darkness gives you that credible threat against a lone vehicle sent out to use its spotlights on you...they then have to worry about the Scarabs swarming out and wrecking whatever vehicles they use.
Obviously only playing with the combo could tell me for sure how useful it would be in a variety of situations, but it seems like it definitely could have some clever applications. I just think you have to build your army around the concept...you don't go taking Doomsday Arks, for example because then you're tempted to stop the night to get some shots in and that's not the way you should play. You should always try to keep the night going and make your army so it fights best at night (make most of your shooting have a max range of 24" anyway and have some nice counter-assault units in case people rush you).
Wow just checked GW after the all flayed ones jokes for the battle force. 55.00 canadian for 5. Thats over ten bucks each for maybe 30 cents in resin. Way to make the choice to not take these hideous models for me I accept your 3300% markup and raise you a go screw yourself.
tetrisphreak wrote:Battleforce: $110 US
16x Warriors (+5 scarab swarms (3 per base))
10x Immortals
Ghost Ark
^Called it first, 10/31/2011
Reference the Battleforce I was reading this post, on re-reading perhaps it is a guess as to the contents rather then news ? I can't really tell either way ?
tetrisphreak wrote:Battleforce: $110 US
16x Warriors (+5 scarab swarms (3 per base))
10x Immortals
Ghost Ark
^Called it first, 10/31/2011
Reference the Battleforce I was reading this post, on re-reading perhaps it is a guess as to the contents rather then news ? I can't really tell either way ?
Nephilim
To clear up any speculation that above is just a GUESS as to what the battleforce will include.
I don't anticipate to see any destroyers in it, because currently their # per unit has been lowered. I figured they'd include one of their new kits, why not a troop unit? And the box prices out at what i have above in the $140-$150 range, for $110 is about the discount of a battleforce.
So again, a GUESS as to what will be included. Sorry for any confusion.
Kroothawk wrote:• We'll Be Back from the previous codex has been replaced by Reanimation Protocols (sorry I keep accidentally calling it Resurrection Protocols in some of these teasers). It now works at the end of each phase, but only on a 5+. You now remove models and place a token or marker next to the unit to remind you how many rolls to make (although you could just use the downed models as markers, but the important thing is you know that these markers don't affect gameplay at all), and any rolls you do make at the end of the phase allow to put one model back into the unit. The rules are very clear about when/how models that return to play via RP are placed and if the entire unit is wiped out then the unit is gone and no RP rolls can be taken. Similarly, if the only model left in the unit is a character (such as a joined IC or a Cryptek/Lord) then these models alone are not sufficient to allow the other models to attempt their RP rolls. Nearly every non-vehicle unit in the game benefits from RP (as opposed to the old WBB, which only worked for 'Necrons'), except for the C'Tan shards.
My IG friend keeps decimating me with Psyker Squad's LD lowering ability. Seriously lowering LD to 2 makes it nigh impossible to win LD roll :( So sadly my Necrons keep retreating and the fallen Cron's are usually left out of 6" range to closest unit. With these new rule - does this change anyhow? Perhaps we roll RP before falling back etc? Anything that helps to deal with this annoying IG spam tactic?
Herr Dexter wrote:
My IG friend keeps decimating me with Psyker Squad's LD lowering ability. Seriously lowering LD to 2 makes it nigh impossible to win LD roll :( So sadly my Necrons keep retreating and the fallen Cron's are usually left out of 6" range to closest unit. With these new rule - does this change anyhow? Perhaps we roll RP before falling back etc? Anything that helps to deal with this annoying IG spam tactic?
Nope, Reanimation Protocols aren't rolled until after morale checks are made (the rule specifies as much).
But you can take Tomb Spyders and pay for an upgrade that allows you nullify psychic powers cast on your Spyder unit, or friendly units within 3" of it, on a roll of 4+.
Herr Dexter wrote:
My IG friend keeps decimating me with Psyker Squad's LD lowering ability. Seriously lowering LD to 2 makes it nigh impossible to win LD roll :( So sadly my Necrons keep retreating and the fallen Cron's are usually left out of 6" range to closest unit. With these new rule - does this change anyhow? Perhaps we roll RP before falling back etc? Anything that helps to deal with this annoying IG spam tactic?
Nope, Reanimation Protocols aren't rolled until after morale checks are made (the rule specifies as much).
But you can take Tomb Spyders and pay for an upgrade that allows you nullify psychic powers cast on your Spyder unit, or friendly units within 3" of it, on a roll of 4+.
Will definitely use Spyders to "shield" more important units against psychic attacks
Going back to RP tho, in WD they said:
Whenever unit is removed as casualty, the unit accrues a counter.
Do those counters stay with unit or lay on the ground? Meaning can a unit that falls back still roll for RP?
Herr Dexter wrote:
Going back to RP tho, in WD they said:
Whenever unit is removed as casualty, the unit accrues a counter.
Do those counters stay with unit or lay on the ground? Meaning can a unit that falls back still roll for RP?
Yep, the counters are just a reminder for how many rolls the unit gets to make.
The only 'counter' whose placement matters on the table is an IC who goes down when not joined to a unit (as then he must get back up within 3" of the counter).
- Overlords can get a cool upgrade to make the unit they join Relentless.
- Destroyer lords are HQ choice (preferred enemy, T6, 3 wounds)
- Praetorians are fearless.
- The lychguards shields work against templates. The hits are reflected, but the template stays were it is.
- Warscythes DO roll 2D6 against Armour.
- Destroyers are 1 - 5 (Gauss Cannon is S5, AP 3, As2.)
- Heavy Destroyers are only 3 per squad.
- There is Artwork for All units.
- Wraiths and Spyders really look alike, so they could be in dual kit.
- Spyders 1 - 3 MC (S6 T6, A2, 3W, can get S6 AP5 twinlinked blastweapon)
- The ghost ark has to roll a D6 for repairs. You get to repair anyway, bot on a roll of 1 you suffer a glancing hit. One unit of warriors can be repaired by several arks.
Kelvan wrote:FROM WARSEER (from person who probably saw codex)
- Overlords can get a cool upgrade to make the unit they join Relentless.
- Destroyer lords are HQ choice (preferred enemy, T6, 3 wounds)
- Praetorians are fearless.
- The lychguards shields work against templates. The hits are reflected, but the template stays were it is.
- Warscythes DO roll 2D6 against Armour.
- Destroyers are 1 - 5 (Gauss Cannon is S5, AP 3, As2.)
- Heavy Destroyers are only 3 per squad.
- There is Artwork for All units.
- Wraiths and Spyders really look alike, so they could be in dual kit.
- Spyders 1 - 3 MC (S6 T6, A2, 3W, can get S6 AP5 twinlinked blastweapon)
- The ghost ark has to roll a D6 for repairs. You get to repair anyway, bot on a roll of 1 you suffer a glancing hit. One unit of warriors can be repaired by several arks.
That made my day.
Ummm, okay?
Perhaps more like from someone who hasn't seen the codex?
Kelvan wrote:FROM WARSEER (from person who probably saw codex)
- Overlords can get a cool upgrade to make the unit they join Relentless.
- Destroyer lords are HQ choice (preferred enemy, T6, 3 wounds)
- Praetorians are fearless.
- The lychguards shields work against templates. The hits are reflected, but the template stays were it is.
- Warscythes DO roll 2D6 against Armour.
- Destroyers are 1 - 5 (Gauss Cannon is S5, AP 3, As2.)
- Heavy Destroyers are only 3 per squad.
- There is Artwork for All units.
- Wraiths and Spyders really look alike, so they could be in dual kit.
- Spyders 1 - 3 MC (S6 T6, A2, 3W, can get S6 AP5 twinlinked blastweapon)
- The ghost ark has to roll a D6 for repairs. You get to repair anyway, bot on a roll of 1 you suffer a glancing hit. One unit of warriors can be repaired by several arks.
That made my day.
Kelvan, I regret to inform you have a case of gullibility perception and way appropriately high hopes. I guarantee you none almost all of that is true.
I don't see the necron codex getting a lot of people starting the army as a normal marine codex does. I would guess from my local gaming area experience that a good number of 40k players own a necron army of a various point level.
I personally will be getting:
Codex
Overlord
Cryptechs x2
(I personally own a good size necron army and am a huge advocate of play testing/proxying before you buy.)
Kelvan wrote:FROM WARSEER (from person who probably saw codex)
- Overlords can get a cool upgrade to make the unit they join Relentless.
- Destroyer lords are HQ choice (preferred enemy, T6, 3 wounds)
- Praetorians are fearless.
- The lychguards shields work against templates. The hits are reflected, but the template stays were it is.
- Warscythes DO roll 2D6 against Armour.
- Destroyers are 1 - 5 (Gauss Cannon is S5, AP 3, As2.)
- Heavy Destroyers are only 3 per squad.
- There is Artwork for All units.
- Wraiths and Spyders really look alike, so they could be in dual kit.
- Spyders 1 - 3 MC (S6 T6, A2, 3W, can get S6 AP5 twinlinked blastweapon)
- The ghost ark has to roll a D6 for repairs. You get to repair anyway, bot on a roll of 1 you suffer a glancing hit. One unit of warriors can be repaired by several arks.
That made my day.
Ummm, okay?
Perhaps more like from someone who hasn't seen the codex?
well thankfully a store near me has 20% off, which is nice for these new items.
I've ordered:
1x Codex
1x Annilhilation Barge (free overlord)
1x Doom Ark
1 box of Deathwatch
1 box of Lychguard with shields
I might get finecasts of Cryptek and Trazyn the Infinite on the day I collect these, depending if there are any left.
Next batch later will include a ghost ark, command barge, stormlord, Preds, Immortals and Necron Warriors. I will use the spare bits from the lych/immortal boxes and necron warrior bodies to form 4x Crypteks (alongside my finecast one), 3x Lords (I have two metal lords already) and the remaining 5 can be additional Immortals.
Balor wrote:So what are you planning on buying at release? ….
I don't see the necron codex getting a lot of people starting the army as a normal marine codex does. I would guess from my local gaming area experience that a good number of 40k players own a necron army of a various point level.
I personally will be getting:
Codex
Overlord
Cryptechs x2
(I personally own a good size necron army and am a huge advocate of play testing/proxying before you buy.)
What I'd love to buy if I can scrap together the money...
1 CCBarge (Love a free Overlord)
1 Box of Warriors
2 Box of Immortals
1 Box of Praetorians/Lychguard
Green Stuff
Should be able to make some nice Cryptek from some extra warrior bodies and the extra bits from the Immortals and Praetorians boxes with some Green Stuff cloaks and loincloths... yep, seems that even robots have their modesty.
Army list based on what I have above and what I have already
Overlord on CCBarge 210
Royal Court (2 Lords, 3 Cryptek) 245
Kelvan wrote:FROM WARSEER (from person who probably saw codex)
- Overlords can get a cool upgrade to make the unit they join Relentless.
- Destroyer lords are HQ choice (preferred enemy, T6, 3 wounds)
- Praetorians are fearless.
- The lychguards shields work against templates. The hits are reflected, but the template stays were it is.
- Warscythes DO roll 2D6 against Armour.
- Destroyers are 1 - 5 (Gauss Cannon is S5, AP 3, As2.)
- Heavy Destroyers are only 3 per squad.
- There is Artwork for All units.
- Wraiths and Spyders really look alike, so they could be in dual kit.
- Spyders 1 - 3 MC (S6 T6, A2, 3W, can get S6 AP5 twinlinked blastweapon)
- The ghost ark has to roll a D6 for repairs. You get to repair anyway, bot on a roll of 1 you suffer a glancing hit. One unit of warriors can be repaired by several arks.
That made my day.
Alright, reasons these rumors are probably bull: Most of em.
Reasons this might be true: How useful is relentless for this army?
No heavy weapon toting infantry. Got 1 heavy weapon on a JI, that a footslogging overlord would just slow down.
Have 3 rapid firing units, and I suppose being able to move and then single shot is sorta nice, but it's certainly not so they can assault.
Could I see it used in a unit of warriors on a ghost ark? Maybe. Still not as game changing as the other things on the wishlist. Just food for thought.
copper.talos wrote:I quote from warseer "What I tell you is as accurate as Mr. Ward wrote it. " so I guess he got the final codex early!
This is the internet, people tend to lie.
The person posting the information--BramGaunt--was also the first person with access to the WD, and is where all that information originally came from.
The Full codex comes out in a few days, my advice for everyone is, an old saying I learned back when I was in the Army.
"Hope for the best, plan for the Worst"
So, while these changes would be nice, don't get your hopes up. Just go by what we have now, and then if things are better at the end result, then that just makes me a happier Necron Player.
I went and read the stuff on Warseer, and Bramgaunt tends to be a lot more reliable than most other posters, so perhaps I was a bit hasty in saying he lied. I still am not holding my breath until my codex is in my hands.
The person posting the information--BramGaunt--was also the first person with access to the WD, and is where all that information originally came from.
He's not the sort to just make it up.
And remember as well that he got several things wrong from the WD, such as Arks giving Ever-living to a unit, and Warscythes having 2D6 pen from it as well. Which were both proven later to be inaccurate.
I admit, I may have been a bit hasty in my accusations, but time will tell.
Kurgash wrote:I want to believe that part about the destroyers :(
Believe me, me too cause I have 25 Normal and 6 Heavy.
Sasori wrote:
And remember as well that he got several things wrong from the WD, such as Arks giving Ever-living to a unit, and Warscythes having 2D6 pen from it as well. Which were both proven later to be inaccurate.
It was due the German translation IIRC.
If it would not be told particularly by THIS guy I didnt paste it here. Until 05.11.11 I'm telling myself that everything can happens. Besides from my observations I know that there are some minor differences between playtesting beta codexes and the final versions.
For example Grey Knights:
Ghostknight - from 32 pts to 40 pts + additional weapons
Dreadknight - from S7 T7 to S6 T6
Techmarine - from 80 pts to 90 pts
Assasins - name change from uncanny reflexes to lighting reflexes 4+ inv
And Dreadknight change made this unit from "overpowered" WOW to "I can think about it"
Sasori wrote:And remember as well that he got several things wrong from the WD, such as Arks giving Ever-living to a unit, and Warscythes having 2D6 pen from it as well. Which were both proven later to be inaccurate.
I admit, I may have been a bit hasty in my accusations, but time will tell.
Yeah, but he immediately added that the Everliving bit was speculation on his part based on a line of fluff/battle report.
If you look at the thread, you'll actually see me personally pointing out that it was insane of him to post that, and that everyone would immediately forget the "but that's just speculation" post and instead run with "OH MY GOD GHOST ARKS GIVE EVERLIVING!"
While it may certainly look like wish-listing, I just hope that the one single part about Warscythes granting 2d6 on AP rolls was true. As far as I can guess, Yakface, the most reliable source, has access to some sort of playtest codex and maybe, just maybe, we see some changes in the final one...
Overlord on Command Barge with such a weapon...boys, I'd run around with a huge smile on my face, killing Dreadnoughts left and right!
And remember as well that he got several things wrong from the WD, such as Arks giving Ever-living to a unit, and Warscythes having 2D6 pen from it as well. Which were both proven later to be inaccurate.
I admit, I may have been a bit hasty in my accusations, but time will tell.
Since I've been hunting for a definite answer to the warscythe issue for days could you tell me how exactly it was proven inaccurate? I know of it not being in the English White Dwarf and of Mat Ward's Lychguard comment (can't make short work of a Land Raider). But that's not really definite proof.
And remember as well that he got several things wrong from the WD, such as Arks giving Ever-living to a unit, and Warscythes having 2D6 pen from it as well. Which were both proven later to be inaccurate.
I admit, I may have been a bit hasty in my accusations, but time will tell.
Since I've been hunting for a definite answer to the warscythe issue for days could you tell me how exactly it was proven inaccurate? I know of it not being in the English White Dwarf and of Mat Ward's Lychguard comment (can't make short work of a Land Raider). But that's not really definite proof.
It was inaccurate because it was said that the 2D6 was shown in the White Dwarf, but it wasn't. This isn't definite proof that it isn't in the codex (I would love for it to be, don't get me wrong) I was just saying that Bramgaunt has been mistaken before.
DJ3 made an Excellent point about possible translation errors (On Warseer). I've never kept up on this issue in the past, so I don't know if that's happened before or not.
Sasori wrote:DJ3 made an Excellent point about possible translation errors (On Warseer). I've never kept up on this issue in the past, so I don't know if that's happened before or not.
This would basically be the worst-case scenario, because then we have months and months of drama until the FAQ.
I've personally been thinking the most likely answer is one that nobody seems to have mentioned yet: Overlords get 2d6 Warscythe pen, nobody else does.
The same piece of wargear acting differently when possessed by two different models is hardly unheard of (see Nemesis Daemonhammers when wielded by a Dreadknight, or old Nemesis Force Weapons in general) and could absolutely be true without invalidating the little Ward Paragraph about Lychguard being unable to deal with Land Raiders.
tetrisphreak wrote:Is cybot German for 'dreadnought'?
Yes, my bad. I don't get it, why have a "translation" for "Dreadnought" when the "translation" is just another English term? Just leave it to "Dreadnought" then.
Concerning the translation errors...well, if it should really turn out to be such a mistake, thus in the German codex, we'd get the 2d6AP...lucky us then! I'd be fine with only Overlords having AP Warscythes, it's just about sweeping over things and blowing them up in an instant.
How about the possibility that the english WD was written earlier, and some rule changes werent final at that point? They couldve left those particular rules out for the time being. The translators, however, have to wait for the english articles to be written before they can actually start translating... Perhaps they got the finalized rules?
Its just an idea.
It was inaccurate because it was said that the 2D6 was shown in the White Dwarf, but it wasn't. This isn't definite proof that it isn't in the codex (I would love for it to be, don't get me wrong) I was just saying that Bramgaunt has been mistaken before.
DJ3 made an Excellent point about possible translation errors (On Warseer). I've never kept up on this issue in the past, so I don't know if that's happened before or not.
Well he said that it was in the German WD, something I can't check because I'm currently in Nottingham. And yes, GW translations are generally bad. I don't know how often it affects the rules, but units and wargear often get completely different names in different languages, and with that I mean that you can't translate them even if you know both languages. My favourite example: Witch Blade is Hagun Zar (an artificial Eldar word) in the German Codex Eldar.
The last time there was a discrepancy in language versions that I remember the English one actually turned out to be incorrect: Stormbanner. In the German version it was one use only from the start, in the English one it had to be errata'd in.
Blackgaze wrote:well thankfully a store near me has 20% off, which is nice for these new items.
I've ordered:
1x Codex
1x Annilhilation Barge (free overlord)
1x Doom Ark
1 box of Deathwatch
1 box of Lychguard with shields
I might get finecasts of Cryptek and Trazyn the Infinite on the day I collect these, depending if there are any left.
Next batch later will include a ghost ark, command barge, stormlord, Preds, Immortals and Necron Warriors. I will use the spare bits from the lych/immortal boxes and necron warrior bodies to form 4x Crypteks (alongside my finecast one), 3x Lords (I have two metal lords already) and the remaining 5 can be additional Immortals.
I picked up a box of warriors last week and preordered some stuff
Codex
Ghost ark
Lychguard
Overlord
If I can convince my wife to let me borrow a little bit from savings I'll pick up the annihilation barge and some more troops. (maybe immortals, have to see the codex before I decide) but I do want some crypteks also.... Gonna have to make some decisions still.
I have a friend who had destroyers/heavy destroyers maxxed out for the last codex and I'm gonna try to get his extras.
I'm just wondering how many users in DakkaDakka is an old necron players.
And how the feth necrons ain't necrons anymore?!
I mean they're tomb kings in space??? Seriously Mat Ward SERIOUSLY!
Necrons ain't nomore
Transports=Not necronish
Easily destroyed=Not necronish
And new models=Not necronish
Old writer= C'Tan is pleased
New writer=C'Tan is pissed
Mono1337 wrote:I'm just wondering how many users in DakkaDakka is an old necron player.
And how the feth necrons ain't necrons anymore?!
I mean they're tomb kings in space??? Seriously Mat Ward SERIOUSLY!
Necrons ain't nomore
Transports=Not necronish
Easily destroyed=Not necronish
And new models=Not necronish
Old writer= C'Tan is pleased
New writer=C'Tan is pissed
I think some aspects are a stretch (We all know the details). But other than that its not too terrible. They've been rebuilt from the ground up. You're better off throwing away the old codex.
I do like the idea of a Flayed One Army on a Bone World (however, I'm not shelling out 45$ for FIVE Flayed Ones). I'd model my 'Fallen' Necron Lord as a blinged Servo-Skull.
Uhm, what are you talking about? Our transports have 13/13/11 until the first penetrating hit, that's pretty good, especially the 11 in the back aka melee defense. We still have WBB aka RP that might seem worse (4+++ => 5+++) but is no longer nullified by energy weapons etc.. and while our Warriors now only have a 4+, it's not that bad seeing that the next critical armor save would be 5+ (negated by bolters, etc.) and they now cost 5 points less per model. So why are we "easily destroyed" now?
Mono1337 wrote:I'm just wondering how many users in DakkaDakka is an old necron players.
And how the feth necrons ain't necrons anymore?!
I mean they're tomb kings in space??? Seriously Mat Ward SERIOUSLY!
Necrons ain't nomore
Transports=Not necronish
Easily destroyed=Not necronish
And new models=Not necronish
Old writer= C'Tan is pleased
New writer=C'Tan is pissed
Dark ledar transports=Not necronish
Its kinda their IP and they decide what they want in it. The old fluff had a Tomb Kings feel to it. The idea the army was the 'undead' counterpart in 40k was clearly listed and used on many levels.
As far as your specifcs, transports are Necron, they are in the new book.
The Necron army is still far and away the most resilient 40k army, current rumors included. They lose out on one unit possibly getting back up with two rolls a turn, but make up for it by losing phase out and having a wider range of models able to self repair.
The new models are very much in line with the Necron feel, as there was virtually nothing to speak of before. They were space skeletons, nothing more.
The C'Tan was holding back their fluff more than anything else
I've only had my zombie robots since April 2011, but the changes don't upset me at all. If I absolutely need to play as a race with one purpose and no personality, I have my tyranids. giving necrons motivation and a hierarchy is fine by me. Especially when our fluff even mentions necrons are notorious double-crossers and just because we fight together now, doesn't mean we won't turn our gauss flayers on you afterwards. wow, that would make for an awesome 3 player scenario game!
Sasori wrote:And remember as well that he got several things wrong from the WD, such as Arks giving Ever-living to a unit, and Warscythes having 2D6 pen from it as well. Which were both proven later to be inaccurate.
The Ever-Living rule was a mistake on his part (trying to interpret fluff as rules), but the 2d6 was written in the German WD so he certainly didn't get anything wrong. The only 'confirmation' is the unit blurb on the store. Which is not much of a confirmation.
Plus Yakface is basing his information on a playtest codex; like someone else just said, remember how much things changed between the GK playtest and final codex? I'm not holding my breath for any of these things, but I wouldn't find it surprising if he was right. Especially because he's claiming that these are from the codex itself, not the playtest version.
Perhaps more like from someone who hasn't seen the codex?
Bramgaunt wrote:
I don't have a Codex in the meaning of owning one. But I had about 2 hours access to one. I took a few notes for myself, but I am not going to post any big reveals here - there aren't many left anyway. Yakface did a marvelous job.
I checked mostly the stuff that interested me the most.
The story how Inquisitor Valeria got her Necron wargear is most exquisit.
I'm old player too and firstly I hated Yakface rumours and preferred Ghost21 ones cause in 40k I'm quite conservative. However, from start of this thread I really changed my mind and now I'm really like these changes.
Vhalyar wrote:[ but the 2d6 was written in the German WD so he certainly didn't get anything wrong.
Is this confirmed yet? I just called my brother to double-check the WD for me and scan the page the info should be on or, in case that it's not actually in, inform me about the lack of such information.
I don't have a Codex in the meaning of owning one. But I had about 2 hours access to one. I took a few notes for myself, but I am not going to post any big reveals here - there aren't many left anyway. Yakface did a marvelous job.
I checked mostly the stuff that interested me the most.
The story how Inquisitor Valeria got her Necron wargear is most exquisit.
Well, sounds like there weren't many major changes from the stuff Yakface posted, apart from the stuff he revealed earlier today.
Mono1337 wrote:I'm just wondering how many users in DakkaDakka is an old necron players.
I'm an old Necron player (since 2002) and I don't understand what you're having a fit about.
Old Cron player here...they were my 3rd army, though... but my 2nd/3rd favorite army (keep flipping between them and daemons)... as my favorite army is Sisters of Battle, I still have a respect for Necrons...
Even if I think the Sanctuary 101 incident is bullhockey
I'm an old Cron player, and while I like all the new stuff, the army still sounds suspiciously dependent on rolling 6's. At least Mat Ward kept with the theme this time, eh?
Sasori wrote:It's a bit unfornunte. I was thinking I could use the Solar pulse after the strikes hit. He is looking a lot less appealing now. I don't know if the rest of his gear is worth it, with that in mind.
I may just end up taking two overlords now, With Tachyon arrows.
Yes, my thoughts exactly. Tachyon arrow is just too good to miss and with the points you save by not using Imotekh, you could easily afford those two lords. My main problem with Imotekh is that he costs almost as much as a C'Tan shard...and his special ability now seems to be hum-hum. It's easily countered by extremely cheap searchlights, lucky rolls and forces you to either choose between the lightnings or shooting yourself. Hmmm.
You realize though that many people were already taking standard lords fully kitted with a scythe for 210 points previously, right? And that lord had a scant few special abilities compared to what imhotek can do.
It talks how the sisters were flayed, and the only thing that the cameras caught were flickering images. Sounds like freaky flayed ones. I haven't read any of the books, however.
SoulGazer wrote:I'm an old Cron player, and while I like all the new stuff, the army still sounds suspiciously dependent on rolling 6's. At least Mat Ward kept with the theme this time, eh?
I disagree. Imo, the opposite is the case, we got less dependent on those 6s. Scarabs and a few equipment options now allow you to reduce an enemy target's armor thus it's easier to glance or even destroy them, even without the magical 6. We also have the Command Barge, that greatly helps destroying AV, not to mention the new "big" stuff like the Doomsday Cannon or the upcoming "Line of Death"-scythe.
So basically, I'd say that the magic 6 remains a Necron gimmick of importance yet it's easier to destroy AV than before...which is awesome.
/e: Hmm, just realized that "AV" isn't "Armored Vehicle". Hmpf.
75hastings69 wrote:Couldn't see this on the thread (although I didn't go through every page!) early next year youll be getting a second wave of necrons - entries in the codex not covered by this release, 4 vehicles, a walker and 2 aircraft, also new tomb spiders IIRC.
Can't recall of the top of my head about the vehicles, the walker Artwork shows a large spider with a necRon driver and scorpion tail over the head blaster type thing.
And here the full quotes from BramGaunt:
Looks like Yakface was wrong about a few details.
Warscythes DO roll 2D6 against Armour.
Destroyrs are 1 - 5
There is Artwork for All units.
Wraiths and Spyders really look alike, so I guess they are in for a dual Kit.
Crypteks Can be the same Heralds even in one court, but each upgrade is unique
The lychguards shields do work against templates. The hits are reflected, but the template stays were it is.
(...)
Heavy destroyers aadly are only 3 per squad. You can still have 2 regular destroyers to eat up fire.
Destroyer lords are their own HQ choice and do have preferred enemy, T6, 3 wounds.
(...)
Btw, Overlords can get a cool upgrade to make the unit they join Relentless.
Praetorians are fearless.
(...)
What I tell you is as accurate as Mr. Ward wrote it.
Destroyer Weapons are assault weapons.
Gauss Cannon is S5, AP 3, ass 2.
Spyders are 3 per unit, have 3 wounds ans S/T 6 and can get a S6 ap5 rwinlinked Blastweapon. They are of course still MCs. A2 only, though. (...)
The deciever is (currently) able to make fearless units flee, or to pin them down.
The ghost ark has to roll a D6 for repairs. You get to repair anyway, bot on a roll of 1 you suffer a glancing hit. One unit of warriors can be repaired by several arks.
(...)
Someone iver at dakka please tell yakface that I take my info out of the actual book. He is not the only one that is well connected.
Reanimation takes place after morale. A unit that was forced to retreat may not reanimate.
(...)
I don't have a Codex in the meaning of owning one. But I had about 2 hours access to one. I took a few notes for myself, but I am not going to post any big reveals here - there aren't many left anyway. Yakface did a marvelous job.
I checked mostly the stuff that interested me the most.
The story how Inquisitor Valeria got her Necron wargear is most exquisit.
SoulGazer wrote:I'm an old Cron player, and while I like all the new stuff, the army still sounds suspiciously dependent on rolling 6's. At least Mat Ward kept with the theme this time, eh?
I disagree. Imo, the opposite is the case, we got less dependent on those 6s. Scarabs and a few equipment options now allow you to reduce an enemy target's armor thus it's easier to glance or even destroy them, even without the magical 6. We also have the Command Barge, that greatly helps destroying AV, not to mention the new "big" stuff like the Doomsday Cannon or the upcoming "Line of Death"-scythe.
So basically, I'd say that the magic 6 remains a Necron gimmick of importance yet it's easier to destroy AV than before...which is awesome.
/e: Hmm, just realized that "AV" isn't "Armored Vehicle". Hmpf.
I agree, things did get much easier. But the stuff everyone is gonna use (Imotekh, Warriors, Immortals, gauss weapons, tesla weapons) are all still needing 6's to do their best. I'm certainly using the D-Ark, but I agree with others in this thread that say the D-Scythe is gonna get maybe one shot off before it blows. Two if you're lucky. Wraiths and Praetorians get rending on 6's, the CCBarge allocates wounds on 6's. It was perhaps a bit much to say the army is entirely dependent on rolling 6's, but I also know that a lot of the "good" stuff in the army is based on luck and hoping your enemy doesn't know what to shoot at first. What I mean to point out is that without rolling 6's, the army will work just fine, but with them, things are going to just melt and make people cry OP.
Concerning the Warscythe I found nothing in the german WD - the weapon itself was mentioned but no special rules. I just flew over the WD shortly, so I could be mistaken, but I don't remember them mentioned rules for them the first time I read it either.
Kevin949 wrote:You realize though that many people were already taking standard lords fully kitted with a scythe for 210 points previously, right? And that lord had a scant few special abilities compared to what imhotek can do.
Not sure if you're implying this or not, but Imotekh doesn't come with a Warscythe, does he? I'm not even clear if he has any kind of power weapon...
75hastings69 wrote:Couldn't see this on the thread (although I didn't go through every page!) early next year youll be getting a second wave of necrons - entries in the codex not covered by this release, 4 vehicles, a walker and 2 aircraft, also new tomb spiders IIRC.
Can't recall of the top of my head about the vehicles, the walker Artwork shows a large spider with a necRon driver and scorpion tail over the head blaster type thing.
And here the full quotes from BramGaunt:
Looks like Yakface was wrong about a few details.
Warscythes DO roll 2D6 against Armour.
Destroyrs are 1 - 5
There is Artwork for All units.
Wraiths and Spyders really look alike, so I guess they are in for a dual Kit.
Crypteks Can be the same Heralds even in one court, but each upgrade is unique
The lychguards shields do work against templates. The hits are reflected, but the template stays were it is.
(...)
Heavy destroyers aadly are only 3 per squad. You can still have 2 regular destroyers to eat up fire.
Destroyer lords are their own HQ choice and do have preferred enemy, T6, 3 wounds.
(...)
Btw, Overlords can get a cool upgrade to make the unit they join Relentless.
Praetorians are fearless.
(...)
What I tell you is as accurate as Mr. Ward wrote it.
Destroyer Weapons are assault weapons.
Gauss Cannon is S5, AP 3, ass 2.
Spyders are 3 per unit, have 3 wounds ans S/T 6 and can get a S6 ap5 rwinlinked Blastweapon. They are of course still MCs. A2 only, though. (...)
The deciever is (currently) able to make fearless units flee, or to pin them down.
The ghost ark has to roll a D6 for repairs. You get to repair anyway, bot on a roll of 1 you suffer a glancing hit. One unit of warriors can be repaired by several arks.
(...)
Someone iver at dakka please tell yakface that I take my info out of the actual book. He is not the only one that is well connected.
Reanimation takes place after morale. A unit that was forced to retreat may not reanimate.
(...)
I don't have a Codex in the meaning of owning one. But I had about 2 hours access to one. I took a few notes for myself, but I am not going to post any big reveals here - there aren't many left anyway. Yakface did a marvelous job.
I checked mostly the stuff that interested me the most.
The story how Inquisitor Valeria got her Necron wargear is most exquisit.
only a few more days to see who has the right rules
The things that were revealed first i hated, but as we have learned more i have to admit its about equal with me things i like and things i dont.
The biggest thing i dont like is the retconning, changing what was. If they had the necrontyr rebelling and splintering the ctan after they woke up id like it a whole lot more.
Damn, now I'm conflicted about the fast attack section. With destroyers only being 3 per squad it was a no brainer, we have scarabs and wraiths that both sound really good. With 5 per squad its a tossup...
I'm also really hating myself for having traded away my necron army all those years ago :(
Kevin949 wrote:You realize though that many people were already taking standard lords fully kitted with a scythe for 210 points previously, right? And that lord had a scant few special abilities compared to what imhotek can do.
Not sure if you're implying this or not, but Imotekh doesn't come with a Warscythe, does he? I'm not even clear if he has any kind of power weapon...
No, I wasn't implying he gets that. What I was saying is that people are already paying close to the same points for 1 lord right now with nowhere near the same capabilities as Imotehk but now people are complaining he costs too much. I'm sure he can take a power weapon of some type. I just don't get why people are complaining about his cost when he clearly outshines the previous lords in just about every aspect and costs just a little more than a kitted out standard lord currently costs. Just because you can't abuse the night-fight rules means he sucks now? *Shrug*
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Khornatedemon wrote:destroyers being 1-5 makes them so much more usefull. Sucks the gauss cannon went to str 5 though.
Uh, ya but it's AP3 and assault 2 instead of AP4 and heavy 3 now.
*Edit* Can't find the reference now, thought I read in here somewhere that they were AP3 assault 2. Could be wrong. Need codex.
If the Destroyer Lord can take the rumored item to make his unit relentless we might see more use for the other rumored heavy weapon for wraiths that forced a strength( or initiative?) test or be removed
Kevin949 wrote:*Edit* Can't find the reference now, thought I read in here somewhere that they were AP3 assault 2. Could be wrong. Need codex.
Such as the first page for example?
Uh, I looked there, ya. Der. Couldn't find it under the destroyer entry on the first post. I did a "Find" for AP3 (the text search built into Firefox) and it came up with two entries, one for the lith and one for the overlord.
*Edit*
Ah, found it, under the gauss weaponary army wide thing...Gauss cannon, AP3 Assault 2. I'm cool with strength 5 instead of 6.
Khornatedemon wrote:destroyers being 1-5 makes them so much more usefull. Sucks the gauss cannon went to str 5 though.
We don't even know if that is true yet.
I have difficulty believing this. Don't get me wrong; I desperately want this to be true. Here's why:
5 Destroyers = 10 shots 10 shots @ BS 4 = 6.7 hits 6.7 hits @ Str 5 vs. Toughness 4 = 4.49 wounds AP 3 = 4.49 dead marines
So in theory, if I were to play the Destroyer Wing that I love so dearly, every turn I could wipe out 3x 5-man tactical squads.
I would love for this to be true, but I just have a hard time believing it as a 5-unit squad size of Destroyers with AP3, Assault 2, 36" guns that move as JI for 40 points would make them just about the best anti-infantry unit in the game.
hmmm... I just thought of something: if Destroyers move as JI now, will they still get to be mounted on their existing flier bases? I ask because the extra height was really nice for when it came to determining true LOS.
No, I wasn't implying he gets that. What I was saying is that people are already paying close to the same points for 1 lord right now with nowhere near the same capabilities as Imotehk but now people are complaining he costs too much. I'm sure he can take a power weapon of some type. I just don't get why people are complaining about his cost when he clearly outshines the previous lords in just about every aspect and costs just a little more than a kitted out standard lord currently costs. Just because you can't abuse the night-fight rules means he sucks now? *Shrug*
No one has said he sucks, but some of his potential has been damaged by this latest development. Comparing him to previous Lords is pointless. What He needs to be compared to is current Lords. Wargear wise, everything but his Staff of the Destroyer and Bloodswarm nanoscarabs can be purchased on a regular Overlord, with most of those options being available for Court Lords as well. His special Abilities, such as the Night fighting and Seize on the 4+ is what you are really paying for. If people deem that those abilities aren't worth paying for over their own Homebrew Overlord, then it's perfectly understandable.
Personally, I plan to try out everything in the codex at least once. As of right now though, I'm leaning toward two Overlords on Command barges with the build I posted recently. If the 2D6 on Warscythes turns out to be true, then I will really have trouble replacing one of them for any of the Special Characters.
SoulGazer wrote: What I mean to point out is that without rolling 6's, the army will work just fine, but with them, things are going to just melt and make people cry OP.
Yes, though I don't know if I'd take people seriously who claim that a faction is suddenly OP just because they need a lot of 6's...it's not like Necrons are going to be the 40k equivalent to WHF Skaven.
Sasori wrote: Personally, I plan to try out everything in the codex at least once. As of right now though, I'm leaning toward two Overlords on Command barges with the build I posted recently. If the 2D6 on Warscythes turns out to be true, then I will really have trouble replacing one of them for any of the Special Characters.
If the rumor turns out to be true, people will soon tremble in fear when a Command Barge comes their way...S7 and 2d6AP could even wreck a Land Raider. Granted, the combo would almost cost as much as one, yet it's more than worth it. Anyone else just imagining a Necron Overlord hovering over a Land Raider, quickly striking its hull, then landing behind it and very slowly, the Land Raider simply falls apart and then explodes while the Overlord makes a cool pose on his Barge?
Kevin949 wrote:You realize though that many people were already taking standard lords fully kitted with a scythe for 210 points previously, right? And that lord had a scant few special abilities compared to what imhotek can do.
Not sure if you're implying this or not, but Imotekh doesn't come with a Warscythe, does he? I'm not even clear if he has any kind of power weapon...
No, I wasn't implying he gets that. What I was saying is that people are already paying close to the same points for 1 lord right now with nowhere near the same capabilities as Imotehk but now people are complaining he costs too much. I'm sure he can take a power weapon of some type. I just don't get why people are complaining about his cost when he clearly outshines the previous lords in just about every aspect and costs just a little more than a kitted out standard lord currently costs. Just because you can't abuse the night-fight rules means he sucks now? *Shrug*
Ah, gotcha. I agree with you there. Old Lords were always a point-sink. I'm just glad the new named Lords look like they'll have some fun powers for their cost. And I hope you're right about the power weapon. yak's earlier description of his staff as "a CC weapon that allows 'to hit' & 'to wound' rolls in combat to be re-rolled and can be used in the shooting phase as a very standard template weapon)" makes me feel pretty uncertain about it. Not that I'd be rushing to fling Stormlord into CC in the first place...
ying...to...find out the cost of Triarch Stalkers.
less then 10 immortals, but more then 10 warriors.
And the giant necron with c'tan shard wasn't from me. There is no Necromancer. The only walker in there is the awesome Triarch Stalker, an he doesn't look like a Necron.
Also: Wraiths, Scarabs and Tomb Spyders have NO reanimation Protocols. Because they are no Necrons.
Wow, No reanimation protocols on the scarabs and wraiths hurts, if true.
75hastings69 wrote:Couldn't see this on the thread (although I didn't go through every page!) early next year youll be getting a second wave of necrons - entries in the codex not covered by this release, 4 vehicles, a walker and 2 aircraft, also new tomb spiders IIRC.
Can't recall of the top of my head about the vehicles, the walker Artwork shows a large spider with a necRon driver and scorpion tail over the head blaster type thing.
Hastings further expounded on this bit of rumors as quoted below
75hastings69 wrote:
Voss wrote:Out of curiosity... what would be the fourth vehicle? AFAIK only the walker and two aircraft are missing. Unless you are including the new jet bike things (or wraiths), which are the other things missing beyond the spiders.
Good news though.
Also, any indication if this would be before or after Vampires?
After.
Can't recall of the top of my head about the vehicles, the walker Artwork shows a large spider with a necRon driver and scorpion tail over the head blaster type thing.
Sigvatr wrote:So basically, the Triarch Stalker will be about 160 points?
If so he's not worth it.
Hell my CSM dreds with unpredicability in actions, heavy flamer, missle launcher or extra CCW and extra armor is 120 pts. Sure it doesn't help other units at all with shooting but its a CC beast at least.
ying...to...find out the cost of Triarch Stalkers.
less then 10 immortals, but more then 10 warriors.
And the giant necron with c'tan shard wasn't from me. There is no Necromancer. The only walker in there is the awesome Triarch Stalker, an he doesn't look like a Necron.
Also: Wraiths, Scarabs and Tomb Spyders have NO reanimation Protocols. Because they are no Necrons.
Wow, No reanimation protocols on the scarabs and wraiths hurts, if true.
I most likley will not get the stalker, and the pretorians don't intrest me as I've got wraiths for the jump infantry.
But C'tan, i really want to see how many pts these abilities are as well as their base cost too. I'd love to toss one of two of these on the table, if not for thier abilities then for target saturation as well.
Lychguard confuse me... IDK if i want those sexy 2d6 S7 warsythes or our response to TH/SS. I have 10 warsythe pariahs i may convert to shield and voidblade or just leave as my sythe lychguard. thing is I understand the 3+,/4++/5+++ they would have with shields but if the nightsythe is open topped you could run one out and assault out of it where those warsythes could cut through a land raider like butter.
and Deathmarks! i always forget about you guys! i don't understand the rules 100% do they DS in right when an enemy does? they could then be shot up badly. lets hope they get special weapon options!
Kelvan wrote:FROM WARSEER (from person who probably saw codex)
- Overlords can get a cool upgrade to make the unit they join Relentless.
- Destroyer lords are HQ choice (preferred enemy, T6, 3 wounds)
- Praetorians are fearless.
- The lychguards shields work against templates. The hits are reflected, but the template stays were it is.
- Warscythes DO roll 2D6 against Armour.
- Destroyers are 1 - 5 (Gauss Cannon is S5, AP 3, As2.)
- Heavy Destroyers are only 3 per squad.
- There is Artwork for All units.
- Wraiths and Spyders really look alike, so they could be in dual kit.
- Spyders 1 - 3 MC (S6 T6, A2, 3W, can get S6 AP5 twinlinked blastweapon)
- The ghost ark has to roll a D6 for repairs. You get to repair anyway, bot on a roll of 1 you suffer a glancing hit. One unit of warriors can be repaired by several arks.
That made my day.
Kelvan, I regret to inform you have a case of gullibility and way high hopes. I guarantee you none of that is true.
The person on Warseer whom Kelvan quoted is BramGaunt, who is a well respected rumor monger up there with Hastings and Harry. If BramGaunt said it, than odds are it is true (especially since he later said that he previewed the soon to be released codex). If Kelvan had stated that BramGaunt was the originator of the rumor, then I am sure Yakface's (who has the Play Test Codex) response would have been different.
Not to harp on anyone in particular, but if you quote someone on another forum (or this one), please include the person's user name in your post
I see what your saying about preatorians and the fact that i dont think you can take a rez orb with them unless im guessing a Destroyer Lord tags along with them
Not sure if they can or not but it would help give a extra punch to that squad
Well, I still have doubts on some of those new points...someone already mentioned the Destroyer / MEQ issue. A squad of 5 Destroyers would just annihilate any normal marine squad out there...
Hulksmash wrote:Only a 5 man squad out of cover. If a 200pt shooting unit can't do that to a 75-80pt unit then there are some major issues.
Pretty much, for a second I was a bit worried for our Tervies, as due to thier size, I tend to have a hard time getting cover (when GW finally does release the model, I am sure it will be about the size of that O&G Arachnid). But then at Str 5, your only talking 2 wounds a turn...not that big a threat.
Ladies, it's settled: I will field two Command Barges with an Overlord and a Nightscythe (or only 1 in 1000 pts games)...here's the page in the German WD saying that Warscythes get the 2d6AP. It is, of course, in Germany, yet it's self-explanatory. Translation below the picture.
"These units [Lychguard] are rather defined by their statline and their equipment than their special rules", Mat explains. "WS 4, S5 and T5 means that they can take care of themselves in CC, especially with their Warscythes (Energy weapons that grant +2S and 2W6 AP) or Entropy Blades (armor piercing and reduce the enemy's armor if he should survive losing a wound).
Sigvatr wrote:Ladies, it's settled: I will field two Command Barges with an Overlord and a Nightscythe (or only 1 in 1000 pts games)...here's the page in the German WD saying that Warscythes get the 2d6AP. It is, of course, in Germany, yet it's self-explanatory. Translation below the picture.
/e: Wait a second, reducing size...
"These units [Lychguard] are rather defined by their statline and their equipment than their special rules", Mat explains. "WS 4, S5 and T5 means that they can take care of themselves in CC, especially with their Warscythes (Energy weapons that grant +2S and 2W6 AP) or Entropy Blades (armor piercing and reduce the enemy's armor if he should survive losing a wound).
Just two words: feth. Yeah.
It'll be amazing if that IS true, but I'm gonna keep myself from getting naked and dancing in the streets until I see the codex. : P
Saturday isnt long off im ganna have to go get the codex befor i go to work then ill have something to read while im stuck there not putting glue on new models
), our Monoliths no longer are the massive bulwarks they used to be thus I'd handle them a bit more careful now.
