Swara wrote:It'll be amazing if that IS true, but I'm gonna keep myself from getting naked and dancing in the streets until I see the codex. : P
All the TWC with rending Thunderhammers agree with you.
i.e. Wait until the codex, since this wouldn't be the first WD where earlier versions of rules made it in and were changed before the issue hit shelves.
Originally Posted by Zothos View Post
Sounds as though wraiths are constructs like scarabs and Spyders now. Makes me wonder how similar in look the new ones will be to the existing models when they arrive.
If they follow the artworks, not that much. Scarabs are the same, but the other two are really different.
Wraiths look like small metal Trygon, basically, and Spyders... well, they still have the same back, but more smaller legs in front.
Sasori wrote:A bit of info from BramGaunt on the Artwork
Originally Posted by Zothos View Post
Sounds as though wraiths are constructs like scarabs and Spyders now. Makes me wonder how similar in look the new ones will be to the existing models when they arrive.
If they follow the artworks, not that much. Scarabs are the same, but the other two are really different.
Wraiths look like small metal Trygon, basically, and Spyders... well, they still have the same back, but more smaller legs in front.
Sounds aswm, really loved the first wraiths but if they are like a small metal trygon whit a necron head that is also great.
And if they are constructs like scarabs and spyders that would explain why they have not a RP.
(still waiting for my codex to be shipped -_-, GW doesn't respond to my mails)
bluebomber wrote:And FNP rolls werent put in that destroyer math either and lately thats all i find are FNPs
FNP doesn't work against weapons that ignore Armour Saves, so the Mathhammer should still stand.
azazel the cat wrote:5 Destroyers = 10 shots
10 shots @ BS 4 = 6.7 hits
6.7 hits @ Str 5 vs. Toughness 4 = 4.49 wounds
AP 3 = 4.49 dead marines
So in theory, if I were to play the Destroyer Wing that I love so dearly, every turn I could wipe out 3x 5-man tactical squads.
I would love for this to be true, but I just have a hard time believing it as a 5-unit squad size of Destroyers with AP3, Assault 2, 36" guns that move as JI for 40 points would make them just about the best anti-infantry unit in the game.
Also: every time the Destroyer wings wipe a squad, I plan to cheer "Panzerungsdurchschlag!". Because that is awesome.
bluebomber wrote:And FNP rolls werent put in that destroyer math either and lately thats all i find are FNPs
FNP doesn't work against weapons that ignore Armour Saves, so the Mathhammer should still stand.
azazel the cat wrote:5 Destroyers = 10 shots
10 shots @ BS 4 = 6.7 hits
6.7 hits @ Str 5 vs. Toughness 4 = 4.49 wounds
AP 3 = 4.49 dead marines
So in theory, if I were to play the Destroyer Wing that I love so dearly, every turn I could wipe out 3x 5-man tactical squads.
I would love for this to be true, but I just have a hard time believing it as a 5-unit squad size of Destroyers with AP3, Assault 2, 36" guns that move as JI for 40 points would make them just about the best anti-infantry unit in the game.
Also: every time the Destroyer wings wipe a squad, I plan to cheer "Panzerungsdurchschlag!". Because that is awesome.
FNP works against AP 3. It doesn't work against things that always deny Armor Saves, such as Rending, and Ap 1 and 2.
bluebomber wrote:And FNP rolls werent put in that destroyer math either and lately thats all i find are FNPs
FNP doesn't work against weapons that ignore Armour Saves, so the Mathhammer should still stand.
azazel the cat wrote:5 Destroyers = 10 shots
10 shots @ BS 4 = 6.7 hits
6.7 hits @ Str 5 vs. Toughness 4 = 4.49 wounds
AP 3 = 4.49 dead marines
So in theory, if I were to play the Destroyer Wing that I love so dearly, every turn I could wipe out 3x 5-man tactical squads.
I would love for this to be true, but I just have a hard time believing it as a 5-unit squad size of Destroyers with AP3, Assault 2, 36" guns that move as JI for 40 points would make them just about the best anti-infantry unit in the game.
Also: every time the Destroyer wings wipe a squad, I plan to cheer "Panzerungsdurchschlag!". Because that is awesome.
I think it should be called out anyway... for anything. Especially when your CC drives by a Land Raider and takes it out LOL
Sasori wrote:FNP works against AP 3. It doesn't work against things that always deny Armor Saves, such as Rending, and Ap 1 and 2.
Indeed. FNP will function against Gauss Cannons. One of the big losses of going from S6 to S5 (if true) will be losing FNP-denial against T3 (say, Dark Eldar).
Sasori wrote:FNP works against AP 3. It doesn't work against things that always deny Armor Saves, such as Rending, and Ap 1 and 2.
Dammit, you're right. You have no idea how much I did not want you to be right. I'd always misread the rule as if the Armour Save was ignored, then so was FNP, and thought it was confirmed because there were no FNP rolls when my Heavy Destroyers or Particle Whips shot Marines. *sigh* correct outcomes for the wrong reasons.
Okay then, here's my revised Mathhammer:
5 Destroyers @ 2 shots = 10 shots
10 shots @ BS 4 = 6.7 hits
6.7 hits @ Str 5 vs. T 4 = 4.49 wounds
No armour saves = 4.49 unsaved wounds
4.49 unsaved wounds vs. FNP = 2.25 dead Marines.
it's still better than 3 Destroyers with Str 6 weapons, which would only get 1.66 dead Marines
However, if it's possible to have up to 3 of your 5 Destroyers as Heavy upgrades, then 2 or 3 Heavy options becomes even better. However, I really have trouble believing this is a possibility. I'd be less skeptical if it was an option to have either 3 Heavy Destoryers, or 5 regular Destroyers.
So the 'hit bouncing shields' of the Praetorians are 4++ right?
Does it clarify that if I tag a group of them with flamers, they can't just pick up the 1 and 2s as dead, and 3s as armor saves and 4+'s as rebounded hits... right?
As in, you must clarify which save you're taking? (or what wargear you're using, if you want to take a WHfantasy stance)... I just hate to say it, but there is no precedence for this in the main rulebook, and I just know someone is going to try to cheeseball this sort of thing: "You take these hits, because I rolled a 4+, but these 3s are armor saves"...
*sigh* I don't want to have to argue against this >.<
No, I wasn't implying he gets that. What I was saying is that people are already paying close to the same points for 1 lord right now with nowhere near the same capabilities as Imotehk but now people are complaining he costs too much. I'm sure he can take a power weapon of some type. I just don't get why people are complaining about his cost when he clearly outshines the previous lords in just about every aspect and costs just a little more than a kitted out standard lord currently costs. Just because you can't abuse the night-fight rules means he sucks now? *Shrug*
No one has said he sucks, but some of his potential has been damaged by this latest development. Comparing him to previous Lords is pointless. What He needs to be compared to is current Lords. Wargear wise, everything but his Staff of the Destroyer and Bloodswarm nanoscarabs can be purchased on a regular Overlord, with most of those options being available for Court Lords as well. His special Abilities, such as the Night fighting and Seize on the 4+ is what you are really paying for. If people deem that those abilities aren't worth paying for over their own Homebrew Overlord, then it's perfectly understandable.
Personally, I plan to try out everything in the codex at least once. As of right now though, I'm leaning toward two Overlords on Command barges with the build I posted recently. If the 2D6 on Warscythes turns out to be true, then I will really have trouble replacing one of them for any of the Special Characters.
Don't forget the 2+ armor save. Overlords don't get that as standard from what I can see on the site.
Revarien wrote:So the 'hit bouncing shields' of the Praetorians are 4++ right?
Does it clarify that if I tag a group of them with flamers, they can't just pick up the 1 and 2s as dead, and 3s as armor saves and 4+'s as rebounded hits... right?
As in, you must clarify which save you're taking? (or what wargear you're using, if you want to take a WHfantasy stance)... I just hate to say it, but there is no precedence for this in the main rulebook, and I just know someone is going to try to cheeseball this sort of thing: "You take these hits, because I rolled a 4+, but these 3s are armor saves"...
*sigh* I don't want to have to argue against this >.<
No, you have to choose between the 3+ standard and the 4++ reflection.
No, I wasn't implying he gets that. What I was saying is that people are already paying close to the same points for 1 lord right now with nowhere near the same capabilities as Imotehk but now people are complaining he costs too much. I'm sure he can take a power weapon of some type. I just don't get why people are complaining about his cost when he clearly outshines the previous lords in just about every aspect and costs just a little more than a kitted out standard lord currently costs. Just because you can't abuse the night-fight rules means he sucks now? *Shrug*
No one has said he sucks, but some of his potential has been damaged by this latest development. Comparing him to previous Lords is pointless. What He needs to be compared to is current Lords. Wargear wise, everything but his Staff of the Destroyer and Bloodswarm nanoscarabs can be purchased on a regular Overlord, with most of those options being available for Court Lords as well. His special Abilities, such as the Night fighting and Seize on the 4+ is what you are really paying for. If people deem that those abilities aren't worth paying for over their own Homebrew Overlord, then it's perfectly understandable.
Personally, I plan to try out everything in the codex at least once. As of right now though, I'm leaning toward two Overlords on Command barges with the build I posted recently. If the 2D6 on Warscythes turns out to be true, then I will really have trouble replacing one of them for any of the Special Characters.
Don't forget the 2+ armor save. Overlords don't get that as standard from what I can see on the site.
Both Overlords and Lords appear to be able to take the Sempiternal Weave, which grants the 2+ armor save.
Revarien wrote:So the 'hit bouncing shields' of the Praetorians are 4++ right?
Does it clarify that if I tag a group of them with flamers, they can't just pick up the 1 and 2s as dead, and 3s as armor saves and 4+'s as rebounded hits... right?
As in, you must clarify which save you're taking? (or what wargear you're using, if you want to take a WHfantasy stance)... I just hate to say it, but there is no precedence for this in the main rulebook, and I just know someone is going to try to cheeseball this sort of thing: "You take these hits, because I rolled a 4+, but these 3s are armor saves"...
*sigh* I don't want to have to argue against this >.<
No, you have to choose between the 3+ standard and the 4++ reflection.
No, you ALWAYS have to take the best save available to you. So if it's an AP4 weapon, you get your 3+ armor save and NOT the 4++ from the shield. If you're in 3+ cover, you get that save against AP3/2/1 and NOT your shield.
Revarien wrote:So the 'hit bouncing shields' of the Praetorians are 4++ right?
Does it clarify that if I tag a group of them with flamers, they can't just pick up the 1 and 2s as dead, and 3s as armor saves and 4+'s as rebounded hits... right?
As in, you must clarify which save you're taking? (or what wargear you're using, if you want to take a WHfantasy stance)... I just hate to say it, but there is no precedence for this in the main rulebook, and I just know someone is going to try to cheeseball this sort of thing: "You take these hits, because I rolled a 4+, but these 3s are armor saves"...
*sigh* I don't want to have to argue against this >.<
No, you have to choose between the 3+ standard and the 4++ reflection.
Currently, nobody has even suggested the choice is allowed. You're compelled by the rules to take the best save available, so unless the Lychguard have specific wording allowing them to do otherwise, they'll only get the chance to reflect weapons that bypass their 3+.
No, I wasn't implying he gets that. What I was saying is that people are already paying close to the same points for 1 lord right now with nowhere near the same capabilities as Imotehk but now people are complaining he costs too much. I'm sure he can take a power weapon of some type. I just don't get why people are complaining about his cost when he clearly outshines the previous lords in just about every aspect and costs just a little more than a kitted out standard lord currently costs. Just because you can't abuse the night-fight rules means he sucks now? *Shrug*
No one has said he sucks, but some of his potential has been damaged by this latest development. Comparing him to previous Lords is pointless. What He needs to be compared to is current Lords. Wargear wise, everything but his Staff of the Destroyer and Bloodswarm nanoscarabs can be purchased on a regular Overlord, with most of those options being available for Court Lords as well. His special Abilities, such as the Night fighting and Seize on the 4+ is what you are really paying for. If people deem that those abilities aren't worth paying for over their own Homebrew Overlord, then it's perfectly understandable.
Personally, I plan to try out everything in the codex at least once. As of right now though, I'm leaning toward two Overlords on Command barges with the build I posted recently. If the 2D6 on Warscythes turns out to be true, then I will really have trouble replacing one of them for any of the Special Characters.
Don't forget the 2+ armor save. Overlords don't get that as standard from what I can see on the site.
Both Overlords and Lords appear to be able to take the Sempiternal Weave, which grants the 2+ armor save.
Yes, but imotekh just "gets" it from what I can tell. That's what I was getting at, he doesn't have to choose it as the lords/overlords do (and thus be more expensive).
Revarien wrote:So the 'hit bouncing shields' of the Praetorians are 4++ right?
Does it clarify that if I tag a group of them with flamers, they can't just pick up the 1 and 2s as dead, and 3s as armor saves and 4+'s as rebounded hits... right?
As in, you must clarify which save you're taking? (or what wargear you're using, if you want to take a WHfantasy stance)... I just hate to say it, but there is no precedence for this in the main rulebook, and I just know someone is going to try to cheeseball this sort of thing: "You take these hits, because I rolled a 4+, but these 3s are armor saves"...
*sigh* I don't want to have to argue against this >.<
No, you have to choose between the 3+ standard and the 4++ reflection.
No, you ALWAYS have to take the best save available to you. So if it's an AP4 weapon, you get your 3+ armor save and NOT the 4++ from the shield. If you're in 3+ cover, you get that save against AP3/2/1 and NOT your shield.
Really? That makes the shield a bit more unimpressive.
Revarien wrote:So the 'hit bouncing shields' of the Praetorians are 4++ right?
Does it clarify that if I tag a group of them with flamers, they can't just pick up the 1 and 2s as dead, and 3s as armor saves and 4+'s as rebounded hits... right?
As in, you must clarify which save you're taking? (or what wargear you're using, if you want to take a WHfantasy stance)... I just hate to say it, but there is no precedence for this in the main rulebook, and I just know someone is going to try to cheeseball this sort of thing: "You take these hits, because I rolled a 4+, but these 3s are armor saves"...
*sigh* I don't want to have to argue against this >.<
No, you have to choose between the 3+ standard and the 4++ reflection.
Choose? I thought you had to use whichever was better.
I hope I'm wrong, though; otherwise Lychguard will only be reflecting melta and plasma.
Edit: wow, beaten to it by like half a dozen people.
No, I wasn't implying he gets that. What I was saying is that people are already paying close to the same points for 1 lord right now with nowhere near the same capabilities as Imotehk but now people are complaining he costs too much. I'm sure he can take a power weapon of some type. I just don't get why people are complaining about his cost when he clearly outshines the previous lords in just about every aspect and costs just a little more than a kitted out standard lord currently costs. Just because you can't abuse the night-fight rules means he sucks now? *Shrug*
No one has said he sucks, but some of his potential has been damaged by this latest development. Comparing him to previous Lords is pointless. What He needs to be compared to is current Lords. Wargear wise, everything but his Staff of the Destroyer and Bloodswarm nanoscarabs can be purchased on a regular Overlord, with most of those options being available for Court Lords as well. His special Abilities, such as the Night fighting and Seize on the 4+ is what you are really paying for. If people deem that those abilities aren't worth paying for over their own Homebrew Overlord, then it's perfectly understandable.
Personally, I plan to try out everything in the codex at least once. As of right now though, I'm leaning toward two Overlords on Command barges with the build I posted recently. If the 2D6 on Warscythes turns out to be true, then I will really have trouble replacing one of them for any of the Special Characters.
Don't forget the 2+ armor save. Overlords don't get that as standard from what I can see on the site.
Both Overlords and Lords appear to be able to take the Sempiternal Weave, which grants the 2+ armor save.
Yes, but imotekh just "gets" it from what I can tell. That's what I was getting at, he doesn't have to choose it as the lords/overlords do (and thus be more expensive).
He's a special character, I doubt he chooses anything. I'm sure that it is factored into his points cost, regardless.
No, I wasn't implying he gets that. What I was saying is that people are already paying close to the same points for 1 lord right now with nowhere near the same capabilities as Imotehk but now people are complaining he costs too much. I'm sure he can take a power weapon of some type. I just don't get why people are complaining about his cost when he clearly outshines the previous lords in just about every aspect and costs just a little more than a kitted out standard lord currently costs. Just because you can't abuse the night-fight rules means he sucks now? *Shrug*
No one has said he sucks, but some of his potential has been damaged by this latest development. Comparing him to previous Lords is pointless. What He needs to be compared to is current Lords. Wargear wise, everything but his Staff of the Destroyer and Bloodswarm nanoscarabs can be purchased on a regular Overlord, with most of those options being available for Court Lords as well. His special Abilities, such as the Night fighting and Seize on the 4+ is what you are really paying for. If people deem that those abilities aren't worth paying for over their own Homebrew Overlord, then it's perfectly understandable.
Personally, I plan to try out everything in the codex at least once. As of right now though, I'm leaning toward two Overlords on Command barges with the build I posted recently. If the 2D6 on Warscythes turns out to be true, then I will really have trouble replacing one of them for any of the Special Characters.
Don't forget the 2+ armor save. Overlords don't get that as standard from what I can see on the site.
Both Overlords and Lords appear to be able to take the Sempiternal Weave, which grants the 2+ armor save.
Yes, but imotekh just "gets" it from what I can tell. That's what I was getting at, he doesn't have to choose it as the lords/overlords do (and thus be more expensive).
He's a special character, I doubt he chooses anything. I'm sure that it is factored into his points cost, regardless.
Yes, that is the point I am making, as you stated earlier that you're paying for this and that, I wanted to add in the 2+ armor save that you did not mention that you are paying for by taking him. Regardless to the other lords being able to take it.
I find the shields very underwhelming, in all honesty. It's nice that it give them a 3+/4++, but the reflection element seems like more of a novelty than anything actually useful. I rarely find my Necrons less than 6" away from enemies and not being in CC with them. Most troops that are going to lock into CC with the Necrons will move at least 6", then assault. The only time the relection would ever be useful is to prevent enemy squads from shooting into the Necrons to soften them up immediately prior to assaulting.
And the Necrons really did not need to be softened up before an assault.
So aside from the 4++ the shield adds, I just think the reflection element is almost meaningless once you look at it closely. Maybe if it would reflect 12", it would be useful. But as it stands, 6" is too small a range for a 50% chance of working and only after your enemy shooting at you in those exact circumstances.
Yes, that is the point I am making, as you stated earlier that you're paying for this and that, I wanted to add in the 2+ armor save that you did not mention that you are paying for by taking him. Regardless to the other lords being able to take it.
You are paying for it, with the total cost of the character. I don't understand what point you are trying to make, at all.
find the shields very underwhelming, in all honesty. It's nice that it give them a 3+/4++, but the reflection element seems like more of a novelty than anything actually useful. I rarely find my Necrons less than 6" away from enemies and not being in CC with them. Most troops that are going to lock into CC with the Necrons will move at least 6", then assault. The only time the relection would ever be useful is to prevent enemy squads from shooting into the Necrons to soften them up immediately prior to assaulting.
And the Necrons really did not need to be softened up before an assault.
So aside from the 4++ the shield adds, I just think the reflection element is almost meaningless once you look at it closely. Maybe if it would reflect 12", it would be useful. But as it stands, 6" is too small a range for a 50% chance of working and only after your enemy shooting at you in those exact circumstances.
The reason I'm buying the shields is for the 4++. Anything more than that is just icing on the cake for me.
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Really? That makes the shield a bit more unimpressive.
Why? Would you really chose to use a worse save on your 45 points model for the chance to bounce a shot back if you could?
If the shots were such that they pose far more of a threat to the enemy models (say, Orks firing Sluggas/Shootas, Gaunts firing whatever, etc) than they are to you then yes, I think a lot of people would choose to take the worse save under certain circumstances.
You're only losing the models that actually roll a "3", while reflecting the 4's 5's and 6's back at the attacker. And even the 3's will get a chance to make RP, potentially boosed by a Res Orb (which will likely be a common sight in Lychguard squads).
It's not something you'd want to do against some Blood Angels firing their Bolt Pistols at you, but there are definitely circumstances where the Void Shield would be preferable to the 3+ armor save.
azazel the cat wrote:I find the shields very underwhelming, in all honesty. It's nice that it give them a 3+/4++, but the reflection element seems like more of a novelty than anything actually useful. I rarely find my Necrons less than 6" away from enemies and not being in CC with them. Most troops that are going to lock into CC with the Necrons will move at least 6", then assault. The only time the relection would ever be useful is to prevent enemy squads from shooting into the Necrons to soften them up immediately prior to assaulting.
And the Necrons really did not need to be softened up before an assault.
So aside from the 4++ the shield adds, I just think the reflection element is almost meaningless once you look at it closely. Maybe if it would reflect 12", it would be useful. But as it stands, 6" is too small a range for a 50% chance of working and only after your enemy shooting at you in those exact circumstances.
It's basically there to annoy Assault-capable units with Meltaguns or Plasma Pistols. You might even scare the enemy into just not firing them, and that's still a good thing. That means one more Lychguard is potentially alive when the Assault comes.
And don't forget, with T5 3+/4++ 4+++ or 5+++, it's really only the heavy weapons that they'll fear in the first place. It really limits the opponents' ability to soften them up prior to an Assault.
Look at it from the perspective of an opposing player, say a BA Assault Squad.
If you fire your Meltagun and cause a wound, you have a 50% chance of killing a Lychguard. The Lychguard then has a 33%-50% chance to stand up before the Assault occurs, essentially rendering the shot meaningless if it happens. That means there's only really a 33%-25% chance of your Meltagun wound being useful.
However, the wound will reflect 50% of the time, killing one of your models. That makes it a losing proposition to even fire the weapon--you have a higher chance of doing damage to yourself than the enemy.
Revarien wrote:So the 'hit bouncing shields' of the Praetorians are 4++ right?
Does it clarify that if I tag a group of them with flamers, they can't just pick up the 1 and 2s as dead, and 3s as armor saves and 4+'s as rebounded hits... right?
As in, you must clarify which save you're taking? (or what wargear you're using, if you want to take a WHfantasy stance)... I just hate to say it, but there is no precedence for this in the main rulebook, and I just know someone is going to try to cheeseball this sort of thing: "You take these hits, because I rolled a 4+, but these 3s are armor saves"...
*sigh* I don't want to have to argue against this >.<
No, you have to choose between the 3+ standard and the 4++ reflection.
Currently, nobody has even suggested the choice is allowed. You're compelled by the rules to take the best save available, so unless the Lychguard have specific wording allowing them to do otherwise, they'll only get the chance to reflect weapons that bypass their 3+.
Hmm. It would be strange if their shields can only reflect ap 3 shooting. I'm curious to see how the shield rules are worded in the codex
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Really? That makes the shield a bit more unimpressive.
Why? Would you really chose to use a worse save on your 45 points model for the chance to bounce a shot back if you could?
If the shots were such that they pose far more of a threat to the enemy models (say, Orks firing Sluggas/Shootas, Gaunts firing whatever, etc) than they are to you then yes, I think a lot of people would choose to take the worse save under certain circumstances.
You're only losing the models that actually roll a "3", while reflecting the 4's 5's and 6's back at the attacker. And even the 3's will get a chance to make RP, potentially boosed by a Res Orb (which will likely be a common sight in Lychguard squads).
It's not something you'd want to do against some Blood Angels firing their Bolt Pistols at you, but there are definitely circumstances where the Void Shield would be preferable to the 3+ armor save.
if the Orks are in assault range of you, being able to reflect their shots is completely meaningless. Your squad is dead. They don't need to shoot you first, and therefore simply wouldn't. The shield then becomes a gurney, nothing more.
"Barrage and Ordnance barrage weapons can still fire at targets in the dark, but if they do and fail to roll a hit, they add an extra d6" to the distance scattered."
So yeah, an effect, but not much of one, at least 1/3 of the time.
Just use a mixed group with a griffon. Have the griffon make the initial shot and form up the barrage on it. If it's in with basilisks or medusa's you've got about a 50/50 shot at blowing it away if it's moving flat out trying to get the cover save. The only down side is the griffon's shorter range increases the risk of them getting off a shot before you vaporize it.
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Really? That makes the shield a bit more unimpressive.
Why? Would you really chose to use a worse save on your 45 points model for the chance to bounce a shot back if you could?
If the shots were such that they pose far more of a threat to the enemy models (say, Orks firing Sluggas/Shootas, Gaunts firing whatever, etc) than they are to you then yes, I think a lot of people would choose to take the worse save under certain circumstances.
You're only losing the models that actually roll a "3", while reflecting the 4's 5's and 6's back at the attacker. And even the 3's will get a chance to make RP, potentially boosed by a Res Orb (which will likely be a common sight in Lychguard squads).
It's not something you'd want to do against some Blood Angels firing their Bolt Pistols at you, but there are definitely circumstances where the Void Shield would be preferable to the 3+ armor save.
if the Orks are in assault range of you, being able to reflect their shots is completely meaningless. Your squad is dead. They don't need to shoot you first, and therefore simply wouldn't. The shield then becomes a gurney, nothing more.
That's a bit dramatic. Your average Trukk Boyz squad would only kill 3 Lychguard and take two casualties in return.
That's a relief. I hope the end up at 90 points or less.
If that is the case these transports will be all over the table. 15 models, plus multiple Tesla destuctors, (s7 ap- as4, tesla, arc) on a fast vehicle will be a serious counter to dark eldar venom spam and razor back spam (but they will crumble to rifleman dreads and hydra tanks).
did I read in bram's post that all cryptek wargear aside from the staves is unique? If that is the case there can only be one solar pulse, one chronometron, one VoD, etc. I hope it is as yak stated and we can get 2 instead...
That's a relief. I hope the end up at 90 points or less.
If that is the case these transports will be all over the table. 15 models, plus multiple Tesla destuctors, (s7 ap- as4, tesla, arc) on a fast vehicle will be a serious counter to dark eldar venom spam and razor back spam (but they will crumble to rifleman dreads and hydra tanks).
did I read in bram's post that all cryptek wargear aside from the staves is unique? If that is the case there can only be one solar pulse, one chronometron, one VoD, etc. I hope it is as yak stated and we can get 2 instead...
The person on Warseer whom Kelvan quoted is BramGaunt, who is a well respected rumor monger up there with Hastings and Harry. If BramGaunt said it, than odds are it is true (especially since he later said that he previewed the soon to be released codex). If Kelvan had stated that BramGaunt was the originator of the rumor, then I am sure Yakface's (who has the Play Test Codex) response would have been different.
Not to harp on anyone in particular, but if you quote someone on another forum (or this one), please include the person's user name in your post
Some sources don't want to be revealed by nicknames or at all. So it is better to not include user name. For example I'm guy from nowhere. However, from a month I have access to several pages of new codex. All of what I have seen is with agreement with current rumours.
The person on Warseer whom Kelvan quoted is BramGaunt, who is a well respected rumor monger up there with Hastings and Harry. If BramGaunt said it, than odds are it is true (especially since he later said that he previewed the soon to be released codex). If Kelvan had stated that BramGaunt was the originator of the rumor, then I am sure Yakface's (who has the Play Test Codex) response would have been different.
Not to harp on anyone in particular, but if you quote someone on another forum (or this one), please include the person's user name in your post
Some sources don't want to be revealed by nicknames or at all. So it is better to not include user name. For example I'm guy from nowhere. However, from a month I have access to several pages of new codex. All of what I have seen is with agreement with current rumours.
If he is posting on a forum, then clearly he doesn't care about being "revealed".
Kiss your asses goodbye, tanks. See that huge overlord in his Command Barge over there? It will be the very last thing you will ever see in your life *sweeps over, hits rear armor with S7 and 2d6AP, blows vehicle up*.
Ladies, gentlemen...we got a clear winner.
Also...5 destroyers per squad? MEQ hunters, I choose you.
/e: Okay, wait..this means...if I sweep over a Dreadnought, I get three attacks on his AV 10, attacks that hit on 3+ or 4+ (which basically means about 2 attacks hit) and these attacks cause a Penetrating Hit with a chance of 90%? Sweet, our SM player fields two DREANDNOUGHTS. Not Cybots. Dreadnoughts.
Sigvatr wrote:
Kiss your asses goodbye, tanks. See that huge overlord in his Command Barge over there? It will be the very last thing you will ever see in your life *sweeps over, hits rear armor with S7 and 2d6AP, blows vehicle up*.
Ladies, gentlemen...we got a clear winner.
Hehe. Now imagine two Overlords doing this, they'd propably try to one-up each other all the time in who can blow more stuff up.
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Really? That makes the shield a bit more unimpressive.
Why? Would you really chose to use a worse save on your 45 points model for the chance to bounce a shot back if you could?
If the shots were such that they pose far more of a threat to the enemy models (say, Orks firing Sluggas/Shootas, Gaunts firing whatever, etc) than they are to you then yes, I think a lot of people would choose to take the worse save under certain circumstances.
You're only losing the models that actually roll a "3", while reflecting the 4's 5's and 6's back at the attacker. And even the 3's will get a chance to make RP, potentially boosed by a Res Orb (which will likely be a common sight in Lychguard squads).
It's not something you'd want to do against some Blood Angels firing their Bolt Pistols at you, but there are definitely circumstances where the Void Shield would be preferable to the 3+ armor save.
if the Orks are in assault range of you, being able to reflect their shots is completely meaningless. Your squad is dead. They don't need to shoot you first, and therefore simply wouldn't. The shield then becomes a gurney, nothing more.
That's a bit dramatic. Your average Trukk Boyz squad would only kill 3 Lychguard and take two casualties in return.
Great. So that's 20-40% of the Necron squad gone, and 7-10% of the Ork squad. or, 90 points of Necrons versus 18 points of Orks. Per round of combat.
And now...
Complex Destroyer Wing Mathhammer!
Heavy Destroyers
1 shot @ BS 4 = 0.67 hits
0.67 hits @ Str 9 vs. T 4 = 0.56 wounds
No armour save or FNP = 0.56 dead marines
Destroyers
2 shots @ BS 4 = 1.33 hits
1.33 hits @ Str 5 vs. T 4 = 0.89 wounds
No armour save
0.89 unsaved wounds vs. FNP = 0.45 dead Marines
Squad of 3 Heavy Destroyers & 2 Destroyers = 2.58 dead Marines per round of shooting
tetrisphreak wrote:As long as you move 12 or less, you can disembark and assault the other one after killing the first in your movement phase.
Gonna make my GK player and his duel gunner dreads mad.
As well you should. Turn 1 should be spent turbo boosting, with av13 and 4+ cover you'll be relatively safe, turn 2 chop them up. Just make sure to pay points for a Sempiternal weave and phase shifter.
tetrisphreak wrote:As long as you move 12 or less, you can disembark and assault the other one after killing the first in your movement phase.
Gonna make my GK player and his duel gunner dreads mad.
I can't wait to field two Tachyon Arrows and the Harp of Dissonance against some psyriflemen.
If you can knock out Two Psyriflemen on the first turn, before they can even get a chance to shoot, you've really crippled the GKs Anti Tank. That would just be fantastic.
tetrisphreak wrote:As long as you move 12 or less, you can disembark and assault the other one after killing the first in your movement phase.
Gonna make my GK player and his duel gunner dreads mad.
I can't wait to field two Tachyon Arrows and the Harp of Dissonance against some psyriflemen.
If you can knock out Two Psyriflemen on the first turn, before they can even get a chance to shoot, you've really crippled the GKs Anti Tank. That would just be fantastic.
Plus you can easily out range them with unlimited range. To pour salt in their wounds, pop a solar pulse and make them squint on their first shooting phase.
CthuluIsSpy wrote:Why would you send a AT heavy squad marine hunting?
Because there aren't any tanks left after the Overlords on Command Barges have had their way with the enemy army.
And because, while it would make more sense to have one squad of 3 Heavy Destroyers and 2 squads of 5 Destroyers, the 3-Heavy-Destroyer squad can still have 2 regular Destroyers tossed in there anyway, so I figured I'd do the math for that one, too.
Or maybe because I like the idea of having 3 squads that are general purpose for firing at whatever, to approximately the same effect. (okay, not really)
tetrisphreak wrote:As long as you move 12 or less, you can disembark and assault the other one after killing the first in your movement phase.
Gonna make my GK player and his duel gunner dreads mad.
I can't wait to field two Tachyon Arrows and the Harp of Dissonance against some psyriflemen.
If you can knock out Two Psyriflemen on the first turn, before they can even get a chance to shoot, you've really crippled the GKs Anti Tank. That would just be fantastic.
Plus you can easily out range them with unlimited range. To pour salt in their wounds, pop a solar pulse and make them squint on their first shooting phase.
That's the plan. I want to hit the Major Anti-Tank hard and fast with my unlimited range weapons, while they are still under Night Fighting rules. If I can Cripple (Or outright destroy all of it) In the first two turns while I have Solar Pulses, it's just going to be clean up duty after that.
Sasori wrote:I can't wait to field two Tachyon Arrows and the Harp of Dissonance against some psyriflemen.
I'm thinking 3. I like the sound of Anraykr (sp?) the Traveller, and I think he gets a Tachyon Arrow as well. (mind you, with 3 shots, the temptation to wipe out a super-powered Matt Ward HQ choice right outta the gate is really tempting)
Sasori wrote:I can't wait to field two Tachyon Arrows and the Harp of Dissonance against some psyriflemen.
I'm thinking 3. I like the sound of Anraykr (sp?) the Traveller, and I think he gets a Tachyon Arrow as well. (mind you, with 3 shots, the temptation to wipe out a super-powered Matt Ward HQ choice right outta the gate is really tempting)
I didn't see any other way to field more than 2, since I think only our HQ's can take them.
Sasori wrote:I can't wait to field two Tachyon Arrows and the Harp of Dissonance against some psyriflemen.
I'm thinking 3. I like the sound of Anraykr (sp?) the Traveller, and I think he gets a Tachyon Arrow as well. (mind you, with 3 shots, the temptation to wipe out a super-powered Matt Ward HQ choice right outta the gate is really tempting)
I didn't see any other way to field more than 2, since I think only our HQ's can take them.
Can't normal lords take them as well? I'm sure I saw that in their possible load out.
Some sources don't want to be revealed by nicknames or at all. So it is better to not include user name. For example I'm guy from nowhere. However, from a month I have access to several pages of new codex. All of what I have seen is with agreement with current rumours.
If he is posting on a forum, then clearly he doesn't care about being "revealed".
Sasori is correct. If you are quoting something posted on a public forum then identify who you are quoting. Conversely, if the person sends you a personal message, email, or calls you up, then keep it anonymous (unless he tells you to reveal his identity).
the lychguard shields are a bit weird, gives the unit a 4++ which if they pass they reflect the shot at another unit within 6" at the same str + AP, works on templates and blasts but it only reflects the hits themselves and states you dont re-position the template/blast
So in planning my upcoming army, where most of my Troops will be Immortals, I wonder if it will be better to take squads of five or ten.
If a squad of five takes five casualties. It is gone forever. A squad of ten will let a good portion of them get back up.
But if a squad of five gets swept in combat, you only lose those five, whereas a squad of ten getting swept loses you that many more.
Melcavuk wrote:Take 10 with Tesla, get within range and spend the rest of the battle trying to walk backwards out of assault range while firing.
But seriously I'm looking at more 9 with Cryptek with the ability to take various pieces of wargear to slow down/make an enemy assault more risky.
(Only 9 because the last torso will be used in making the Cryptek)
Make a cryptek using a warrior torso instead of an immortal one, with immortal bits on it and probably a spare praetorian rod of the covenant (to represent the staff of eldritch lightning or tremorstave or what-have-you). Deathmark head, voila, beardless cryptek!
Melcavuk wrote:Take 10 with Tesla, get within range and spend the rest of the battle trying to walk backwards out of assault range while firing.
But seriously I'm looking at more 9 with Cryptek with the ability to take various pieces of wargear to slow down/make an enemy assault more risky.
(Only 9 because the last torso will be used in making the Cryptek)
Make a cryptek using a warrior torso instead of an immortal one, with immortal bits on it and probably a spare praetorian rod of the covenant (to represent the staff of eldritch lightning or tremorstave or what-have-you). Deathmark head, voila, beardless cryptek!
I would use a lychguard torso myself. I need some anyway to reinforce my pariah squad.
@Chizel : Hey, are the pariahs really gone from the codex? What does your friend say?
Sasori wrote:I can't wait to field two Tachyon Arrows and the Harp of Dissonance against some psyriflemen.
I'm thinking 3. I like the sound of Anraykr (sp?) the Traveller, and I think he gets a Tachyon Arrow as well. (mind you, with 3 shots, the temptation to wipe out a super-powered Matt Ward HQ choice right outta the gate is really tempting)
I didn't see any other way to field more than 2, since I think only our HQ's can take them.
My bad. I thought that the regular Lords could take Tachyon Arrows.
I'll have to go back to the drawing board on the list I was forming in my head, kinda bummed about Wraiths changing to constructs, but that would actually fit in better with their apparent stat line to be honest, 2 wounds + RP that could be boosted with an orb would be a little too strong, you'd be tying up close combat units all day long, I'm totally still going to run the old models, and convert them to have whip arms, or extra arms with whips
Glad the only thing I am getting is the Codex at this stage, I'll be playing many proxy games before getting models as there appears to be quite a few decent options.
Triarch Stalker is sounding good! I was worried it would cost more than a dreadnought, but looks like it will be in that area, and will certainly have his role to play in any heavy shooting situations. Any idea on death mark cost? The combination of the two would suddenly make rapid fire weapons super effective!
chizal wrote:Pariahs are gone, the new fluff says they are after the perfect flesh form to transfer to and not a mixture of machine/flesh, so they got the boot
..... All hail Necron Overlord Barbossa of the Cairn Ship Black Pearl. Seeking to undo the curse of undeath on his crew. (A shame that there's no Jack Sparrow who can make it happen in mid-battle.)
Sasori wrote:I can't wait to field two Tachyon Arrows and the Harp of Dissonance against some psyriflemen.
I'm thinking 3. I like the sound of Anraykr (sp?) the Traveller, and I think he gets a Tachyon Arrow as well. (mind you, with 3 shots, the temptation to wipe out a super-powered Matt Ward HQ choice right outta the gate is really tempting)
I didn't see any other way to field more than 2, since I think only our HQ's can take them.
My bad. I thought that the regular Lords could take Tachyon Arrows.
That's twice in one day you've proved me wrong.
I Wish, I would load up on as many of those suckers as I could. Destroying every Vehicle in an enemies army, turn one, from unlimited range? Yes please!
The countdown is unbearable at this point! Sucks that I may not even get to have my Codex on Saturday :(
Going back to the Lycheguard shield debate: I was under the impression that ANY unit firing at the squad could get its shots deflected at another enemy unit within 6".
for example, unit A shoots the shield guards from 24" away and enemy unit B is within 6". Those shots saved are deflected into unit B.
While it is still a bit of a novelty, this makes the deflection a lot more useful.
Collection of the next BramGaunt quotes, added to first post:
BramGaunt wrote:
Dying...to...find out the cost of Triarch Stalkers.
less then 10 immortals, but more then 10 warriors.
And the giant necron with c'tan shard wasn't from me. There is no Necromancer. The only walker in there is the awesome Triarch Stalker, an he doesn't look like a Necron.
Also: Wraiths, Scarabs and Tomb Spyders have NO reanimation Protocols. Because they are no Necrons.
How many DCCWs does it have?
Sadly none. It's CC abilities are average at best. It's main Function is to mark targets for twinlinked fire.
(...)
It's a heavy flamer.
It can be upgraded to a S7 ap4 5" Blast for very few points, or it can have a twinlinked Heavy Gauss Canon.
On the C'tans Flaming Death ability that makes Melta and Flamer 'get hot':
1st: It applys to your own units aswell, so stay away from your Triarch Stalkers with it...
2nd: You roll a D6 each time any Melta or flamebased (speak: using the flame template) is fired within 12". On a roll of 1, the Model is removed from play (weapon destroyed if it's a vehicle). Shots are not fired if a 1 is rolled. Twinlinked does not help. So basically, 1/6 of all Melta/Flamer near the C'tan will die.
The powers are all reasonably priced. The Fragment itself is less then 200 pts aswell.
I guessed Small blast but thats even better.
No, it's the 5 Inch blast for the Triarch Stalker. It's called a Particlesomething. Not the Big particle something that the monolith has, but bigger then the smaller particlesomething that the jetbikes can have.
The jetbikes can be taken in units of 5. They can be upgraded to BS5, can have a 3+ AS (4+ base) and can have the Stealth USR. Yak already covered this. They can switch the twinlinked teslaweaponthingy-the-immortals-have to a twinlinked Gauss Blaster or to a particleboomstick (I cant read my own handwriting what the exact name is...) S6 AP 5 Blast weapon.
Sounds as though wraiths are constructs like scarabs and Spyders now. Makes me wonder how similar in look the new ones will be to the existing models when they arrive.
If they follow the artworks, not that much. Scarabs are the same, but the other two are really different.
Wraiths look like small metal Trygon, basically, and Spyders... well, they still have the same back, but more smaller legs in front.
(...)
If my memory doesn't play any tricks to me it's the wraiths that have the coils, not the spyders. But great idea... oo
As long as I didn't skip anything, its Wraiths only. Any model in b2b strikes at I1.
Twin linked Tesla is a big difference to what the immortals carry - more chances for extra hits, plus greater mobility to get the shots to where they need to go. Squad size will be the limiting factor here, however.
Up to 5. They are only a little priceyer than immortals at base, but really add up on points if you buy the fancy toys.
that is eating me up. I'm telling myself that it doens't mean there are some hidden tricks or twists we don't know about.
But my unconcsious mind keeps telling me otherwise.
Look, man. I am only human. I make mistakes. But I passed on only things for the past... what, 6 hours? that I -read- in the actual -book-. It was not my book, but a genuine book still. I don't have it with me here or I'd gladly share anythign with you. My brain is usually pretty occupied after work, so I took some notes, but since I have a fair share of paperwork I was not that enthusiastic. I've been a little selfish there and read mostly fluff (which I enjoyed). Maybe next time I get around I can have a better look at rules, though most things are out there now.
Night Scythe is fewer points then the Ghost bark
Odd question: wargear has to be modeled on the figure, or mentioned if not accyrately modeled. Do manifestation powers? Do I have to mention ahead of time that that forest you plan to walk through is actually home to a ravenous Grue, or that your army bought bargain basement meltas? Or is it acceptable to spring that on people?
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:Odd question: wargear has to be modeled on the figure, or mentioned if not accyrately modeled. Do manifestation powers? Do I have to mention ahead of time that that forest you plan to walk through is actually home to a ravenous Grue, or that your army bought bargain basement meltas? Or is it acceptable to spring that on peo
I don't see how the C'tan Abilities would be any different than Psychic powers in that respect. You don't model those on, after all.
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:Odd question: wargear has to be modeled on the figure, or mentioned if not accyrately modeled. Do manifestation powers? Do I have to mention ahead of time that that forest you plan to walk through is actually home to a ravenous Grue, or that your army bought bargain basement meltas? Or is it acceptable to spring that on people?
Is it in the army list? If so, you may laugh at the look of terror on your opponents face when all meltas explode spectacularly.
I'll just buy the codex, read through it over lunch, and then just buy what I think I'll need. I seriously doubt my FLGS will be sold out of Necron models, as Necron players are a rare breed in my area.
azazel the cat wrote:I'll just buy the codex, read through it over lunch, and then just buy what I think I'll need. I seriously doubt my FLGS will be sold out of Necron models, as Necron players are a rare breed in my area.
Give yourself some time to save up for the Second wave as well
azazel the cat wrote:I'll just buy the codex, read through it over lunch, and then just buy what I think I'll need. I seriously doubt my FLGS will be sold out of Necron models, as Necron players are a rare breed in my area.
Give yourself some time to save up for the Second wave as well
Second wave is said to be sometime in January/February 2012. Plenty of kids will have holiday money. Plenty of adults will be broke from the holidays. LOL
azazel the cat wrote:Until I -know- otherwise, I'm gonna go ahead and assume the second wave will be a week or two behind all of those MIA Tyranid models.
If Destroyers are still 1-5, I'm going to be a rather happy gentleman (aside from the fact that I'm going to have to find a way to strip the paint off of my existing destroyers...). 40 points per, for deep striking assault 2 S5 AP3 guns sounds pretty cool, especially with their decent range and rumored ranged future PE.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
tetrisphreak wrote:
Sasori wrote:
azazel the cat wrote:I'll just buy the codex, read through it over lunch, and then just buy what I think I'll need. I seriously doubt my FLGS will be sold out of Necron models, as Necron players are a rare breed in my area.
Give yourself some time to save up for the Second wave as well
Second wave is said to be sometime in January/February 2012. Plenty of kids will have holiday money. Plenty of adults will be broke from the holidays. LOL
I'd be ecstatic if this is actually the case. It'll take me forever to finish painting my army from scratch, but hopefully I'll have all my Arks, Warriors, and 'Liths done by then.
Spent the last 3 days attempting to catch up with this topic with only 1 hour access to the internet a day, if i chose not to eat lunch and only get a half-hour, and I find out that my 15 Destroyers will all be usable? I said time and time again I'd rather have up to 5 in a squad, and my wish came true! In every army I field, I will be playing a minimum of 2 full destroyer squads. I don't care how uncompetitive it is, I will play them. Oh, I am definitely happier than a necrotyr who didn't want to become a necron.
On a side note: I am going to be playing a blood angel player who has never played the army before, and his entire army is made to drop. My plan is to take 3 squads of deathmarks and the guy who allows reserve units to drop just like the deathmark unit. when he drops, I'll drop. then rapid fire him to death. or die. thoughts?
FalkorsRaiders wrote:Spent the last 3 days attempting to catch up with this topic with only 1 hour access to the internet a day, if i chose not to eat lunch and only get a half-hour, and I find out that my 15 Destroyers will all be usable? I said time and time again I'd rather have up to 5 in a squad, and my wish came true! In every army I field, I will be playing a minimum of 2 full destroyer squads. I don't care how uncompetitive it is, I will play them. Oh, I am definitely happier than a necrotyr who didn't want to become a necron.
On a side note: I am going to be playing a blood angel player who has never played the army before, and his entire army is made to drop. My plan is to take 3 squads of deathmarks and the guy who allows reserve units to drop just like the deathmark unit. when he drops, I'll drop. then rapid fire him to death. or die. thoughts?
Sniper weapons will help, but they'll be no more effective on blood angels than gauss flayers (except for the marked squad, and the occasional rend). I would use your elite slots to harbor a squad of lychguard and then spend points on destroyers. He'll drop in the open and get no saves vs the ap3 gauss cannons. Mop up with immortals & gauss blasters (you're admitting you'll start the game in rapid fire range, that means that gauss blasters are a superb weapon choice to tesla in this case).
Also a destroyer lord, or a foot lord with a warscythe. Assault with the lychguard after they drop. Win.
My friend hasn't read all of his codex, and hasn't played a game yet. Against a person who looked at the internet before buying models/making a list I might fear and use a list that may end up a closer game, but against a guy who thinks taking 8 drop pods for the sake of dropping empty drop pods is a good idea and has yet to play a game of 40k, I want to have fun and do all sorts of dickery. "I drop this drop pod here, and then you get to drop 4 squads? that's op"
Automatically Appended Next Post:
tetrisphreak wrote:
FalkorsRaiders wrote:Spent the last 3 days attempting to catch up with this topic with only 1 hour access to the internet a day, if i chose not to eat lunch and only get a half-hour, and I find out that my 15 Destroyers will all be usable? I said time and time again I'd rather have up to 5 in a squad, and my wish came true! In every army I field, I will be playing a minimum of 2 full destroyer squads. I don't care how uncompetitive it is, I will play them. Oh, I am definitely happier than a necrotyr who didn't want to become a necron.
On a side note: I am going to be playing a blood angel player who has never played the army before, and his entire army is made to drop. My plan is to take 3 squads of deathmarks and the guy who allows reserve units to drop just like the deathmark unit. when he drops, I'll drop. then rapid fire him to death. or die. thoughts?
Sniper weapons will help, but they'll be no more effective on blood angels than gauss flayers (except for the marked squad, and the occasional rend). I would use your elite slots to harbor a squad of lychguard and then spend points on destroyers. He'll drop in the open and get no saves vs the ap3 gauss cannons. Mop up with immortals & gauss blasters (you're admitting you'll start the game in rapid fire range, that means that gauss blasters are a superb weapon choice to tesla in this case).
Also a destroyer lord, or a foot lord with a warscythe. Assault with the lychguard after they drop. Win.
That reminds me, the lord will have a +2s, 2d6 warscythe. gonna take a ccb with him and laugh as I pull shenanigans. I will definitely keep your points in mind for the next list that will be this concept, just not as dumb.
FalkorsRaiders wrote:Spent the last 3 days attempting to catch up with this topic with only 1 hour access to the internet a day, if i chose not to eat lunch and only get a half-hour, and I find out that my 15 Destroyers will all be usable? I said time and time again I'd rather have up to 5 in a squad, and my wish came true! In every army I field, I will be playing a minimum of 2 full destroyer squads. I don't care how uncompetitive it is, I will play them. Oh, I am definitely happier than a necrotyr who didn't want to become a necron.
On a side note: I am going to be playing a blood angel player who has never played the army before, and his entire army is made to drop. My plan is to take 3 squads of deathmarks and the guy who allows reserve units to drop just like the deathmark unit. when he drops, I'll drop. then rapid fire him to death. or die. thoughts?
If you really want to do something like that, you could try taking Nemesor Zahndrekh and instead of Deep Striking Deathmarks, just DS some wraithsor praetorians to counter him. Zahndrekh allows ALL DSing units to do what the Deathmarks do.
Alternatively, sit back with destroyers next to counter-charge units (C'tan?) in order to keep him in the open under the scopes of your Gauss Cannons.
If you really want to do something like that, you could try taking Nemesor Zahndrekh and instead of Deep Striking Deathmarks, just DS some wraithsor praetorians to counter him. Zahndrekh allows ALL DSing units to do what the Deathmarks do.
Alternatively, sit back with destroyers next to counter-charge units (C'tan?) in order to keep him in the open under the scopes of your Gauss Cannons.
Already was fielding 3 units of 3 destroyers, which now will be 5 in a squad, to counter. And i was taking that guy. I forgot his name, but Zahndrekh was the lord i would take. The reason i wasn't gonna take wraiths or praetorians is the points. 10 deathmarks, at 19 pts a piece, is 190. 5 praetorians cost 200, and i only own 2 wraiths, so i cant use those since i wont get them in time. With 580 points of destroyers (2 squads of 5, 1 squad of 4), 570 points of deathmarks (3 squads of 10), guessing zahndrekh is 160 pts and the ccb at 110 points (don't ask why those points, just guessing based off of my own thoughts of potential points/usefulness value), a monolith at 200 pts, and the minimum 130pts for 2 squads of 5 warriors, i get a 1750 point list for a 1750 point game. I have no idea what he is taking, and i'll admit that i have no defense for cc, but i'm hoping by dropping 6 squads and a monolith in 1 turn will make me win the game then and there. who knows, maybe it won't.
Anpu-adom wrote:Guessing that it doesn't mean much, but the unit of destroyers in the Mat Ward video was 5 models.
None of the other units were above their strength. Take that as you will.
I noticed that as well and found it kinda strange, it makes more sense at the moment however
The Nightscythe transport certainly has it place if it is indeed 90points, very FAST transport option there, keep them on the move and obtain a very handy cover save. But if this 2D6 thing pans out to be true, it's the one thing I'm going to be skeptical about until I read it from an official codex myself, then it really does look like 90% of lords will be riding the barge laughing as they go on a tank killing spree, makes me wonder if Nemesor can give himself tank hunter
Anpu-adom wrote:Guessing that it doesn't mean much, but the unit of destroyers in the Mat Ward video was 5 models.
None of the other units were above their strength. Take that as you will.
I noticed that as well and found it kinda strange, it makes more sense at the moment however
The Nightscythe transport certainly has it place if it is indeed 90points, very FAST transport option there, keep them on the move and obtain a very handy cover save. But if this 2D6 thing pans out to be true, it's the one thing I'm going to be skeptical about until I read it from an official codex myself, then it really does look like 90% of lords will be riding the barge laughing as they go on a tank killing spree, makes me wonder if Nemesor can give himself tank hunter
I don't think Zahndrekh has a Warscythe. Pretty sure it's a Void Blade (Entropic and Rending). Otherwise he'd be, without question, the best character to take.
I look and see that this topic has 154 pages. Then i remember the other 4 or 5 topics that had at least 11+ pages to about 100+ pages for "necron rumors". then I laugh once i realize i only have to wait a few more days.
Over 9000! wrote:I can't wait to start crushing space marine scum. One question, I read in the first post that wraiths are I 2, that's a typo right?
It makes me sad, but I get the impression that you should forget most of the old Wraith fluff, they aren't Necron's anymore, they are constructs like Tomb Spyders and Scarabs, and will be getting a whole new model to suit this. So the idea of quick, lithe and ethereal Wraiths is a thing of the past :(
IRT; Mustakha
Damn, I totally didn't think about what weapon he came with, you are right! It's one of the weapons which I think is the least useful for a special character too :(
This really changes my plans for supporting Wraiths with a Destroyer lord, the new Wraiths don't need a res orb anymore, so it's not that critical that they have lord support. May have to run Nemesor on foot and a CCB overlord with the scythe going all out anti-tank.
Waiting until Saturday is just painful right now! I've only been waiting 3 years for an update myself, but suddenly 3 days seems even longer.
I would actually take that as more 'evidence' leading me to believe that Warscythes do indeed get 2d6 vehicle penetration, like mentioned above some of the special characters being able to ride barges AND decimate anything with rear AV11 on top of all their special abilities, would be IG points cost broken (no offense IG players)
It would be a huge booster for the uptake of a generic Overlords!
I've been putting a lot of thought into what kinds of Overlords I'm going to use, and I've come to the following conclusions:
a) Assuming the Warscythe is 2d6 Armor Penetration, I will be taking an Command Barge every game without question. That ability is one of the most reliable ways to destroy vehicles (of any kind) in the game, while giving your Overlord strong protection and mobility.
b) Depending on their points cost, and the size of the game, I plan to take Nemesor Zahndrekh and Vargard Obyron quite often. Zahndrekh's ability to give friendlies USR's, remove enemy's, AND improve DS function is more than enough to say he's worth it, and that's before you consider has a 2+/3++ and Rez orb. Stick him in a squad of Immortals or Warriors as some CC protection but mainly shooting protection, and and he can command the army from the back lines while Vargard Obyron joins a few Lychguard to help destroy T4 models on the charge. Having a Lord and Obyron in a Lychguard unit with shields provides the toughness and offensive capabilities to potentially defeat a unit of Nobs on the charge, and they can teleport around the battlefield as needed.
3) Another type of overlord I would like to try is one whose role is counter-charge protection against characters, especially ones like Ghazkhull. From what I've read, the Tesseract Labyrinth could be decent way to defeat super-powered characters, and using that with Mindshackle Scarabs could be the way to take on units like that. Keeping an Overlord in back to hold a Rez Orb and these other pieces of gear could be a good way to keep your back lines protected, and he could also toss in a Tachyon Arrow to boot.
Any other ideas people have come up with for their Lords? It seems like sticking a lord in a unit of Praetorians might be effective if they have a Night Scythe to bring them closer. They could look for units like Assault Marines (or even PF terminators) to kill, though anything with high strength power weapons is going to be a gamble.
Mustakha the Undying wrote:I've been putting a lot of thought into what kinds of Overlords I'm going to use, and I've come to the following conclusions:
a) Assuming the Warscythe is 2d6 Armor Penetration, I will be taking an Command Barge every game without question. That ability is one of the most reliable ways to destroy vehicles (of any kind) in the game, while giving your Overlord strong protection and mobility.
b) Depending on their points cost, and the size of the game, I plan to take Nemesor Zahndrekh and Vargard Obyron quite often. Zahndrekh's ability to give friendlies USR's, remove enemy's, AND improve DS function is more than enough to say he's worth it, and that's before you consider has a 2+/3++ and Rez orb. Stick him in a squad of Immortals or Warriors as some CC protection but mainly shooting protection, and and he can command the army from the back lines while Vargard Obyron joins a few Lychguard to help destroy T4 models on the charge. Having a Lord and Obyron in a Lychguard unit with shields provides the toughness and offensive capabilities to potentially defeat a unit of Nobs on the charge, and they can teleport around the battlefield as needed.
3) Another type of overlord I would like to try is one whose role is counter-charge protection against characters, especially ones like Ghazkhull. From what I've read, the Tesseract Labyrinth could be decent way to defeat super-powered characters, and using that with Mindshackle Scarabs could be the way to take on units like that. Keeping an Overlord in back to hold a Rez Orb and these other pieces of gear could be a good way to keep your back lines protected, and he could also toss in a Tachyon Arrow to boot.
Any other ideas people have come up with for their Lords? It seems like sticking a lord in a unit of Praetorians might be effective if they have a Night Scythe to bring them closer. They could look for units like Assault Marines (or even PF terminators) to kill, though anything with high strength power weapons is going to be a gamble.
Praetorians can't take a transport. You can probably Hijack a Night Scythe from one of your other units though.
Mustakha the Undying wrote:I've been putting a lot of thought into what kinds of Overlords I'm going to use, and I've come to the following conclusions:
Any other ideas people have come up with for their Lords? It seems like sticking a lord in a unit of Praetorians might be effective if they have a Night Scythe to bring them closer. They could look for units like Assault Marines (or even PF terminators) to kill, though anything with high strength power weapons is going to be a gamble.
Units like Terminators are basically the perfect thing to fight with Ghost Arks - 10 Gauss Flayers inside, in rapid fire range, and 10 vehicle-mounted Flayers is 40 S4 shots. That's a lot of saves even at 2+. Keep the CCB Overlords popping transports and taking pot shots at heavy weapon wielders in cover.
Praetorians can't take a transport. You can probably Hijack a Night Scythe from one of your other units though.
Just as well. I actually find that to be very strange, and I'm going to make the assumption that in the final codex they will be able to take a transport. It's silly that they wouldn't, especially because it's designed to hold jump infantry
At the very least, we can do as you suggested by buying it for someone else and sticking them inside, lol
ok, i just want to throw this out there for all the people who are saying "OMG i cant wait till SATURDAY for this codex to be out!", the codex does NOT have a STREET DATE. That means it could arrive as soon as tomorrow or may already be out. My local game store CONFIRMED this, also i have also noticed that this is what happens. I got the grey knight codex before the official release date. so if your REALLY serious about knowing whats in the codex, then call ALL of your FLGS and ask if they have received there shipment yet, and if they have, ask if the necron codex was in the shipment. Also it would be greatly appreciated if you share any newly found knowledge with the rest of us. Thank you and have a great week!
TheDivineKira wrote:ok, i just want to throw this out there for all the people who are saying "OMG i cant wait till SATURDAY for this codex to be out!", the codex does NOT have a STREET DATE. That means it could arrive as soon as tomorrow or may already be out. My local game store CONFIRMED this, also i have also noticed that this is what happens. I got the grey knight codex before the official release date. so if your REALLY serious about knowing whats in the codex, then call ALL of your FLGS and ask if they have received there shipment yet, and if they have, ask if the necron codex was in the shipment. Also it would be greatly appreciated if you share any newly found knowledge with the rest of us. Thank you and have a great week!
My local store said the same. So they're expecting I'll have it Friday.
Though he mentioned that GW stores won't sell it until Saturday.
Mustakha the Undying wrote:I've been putting a lot of thought into what kinds of Overlords I'm going to use, and I've come to the following conclusions: Any other ideas people have come up with for their Lords? It seems like sticking a lord in a unit of Praetorians might be effective if they have a Night Scythe to bring them closer. They could look for units like Assault Marines (or even PF terminators) to kill, though anything with high strength power weapons is going to be a gamble.
Units like Terminators are basically the perfect thing to fight with Ghost Arks - 10 Gauss Flayers inside, in rapid fire range, and 10 vehicle-mounted Flayers is 40 S4 shots. That's a lot of saves even at 2+. Keep the CCB Overlords popping transports and taking pot shots at heavy weapon wielders in cover.
It's not a terrible tactic for killing terminators if you can get the distances down to get a few rounds of shots in, but there are a couple things that make the plan less than desirable.
1. There are very few circumstances where you'll be able to aim both flayer arrays on the same unit with the Ark.
2. Given that, It'd actually take 3 full Arks of fire to take out a group of 5 terminators on average. 30 shots per Ark, 90 shots, 60 hit, 30 wound, 5 aren't saved.
A better tactic may be some Sword and Board lychgard, with a lord/orb for some resilience/punch.
Or, even, if you can count on running up against termies regularly, the Doomsday Ark could be effective.
It's not a terrible tactic for killing terminators if you can get the distances down to get a few rounds of shots in, but there are a couple things that make the plan less than desirable.
1. There are very few circumstances where you'll be able to aim both flayer arrays on the same unit with the Ark.
2. Given that, It'd actually take 3 full Arks of fire to take out a group of 5 terminators on average. 30 shots per Ark, 90 shots, 60 hit, 30 wound, 5 aren't saved.
A better tactic may be some Sword and Board lychgard, with a lord/orb for some resilience/punch.
Or, even, if you can count on running up against termies regularly, the Doomsday Ark could be effective.
Edit: Clarity.
This.
I was suggesting that against things like Chaos Terminators or regular PF terminators (Deathwing?) the Praetorians might be pretty effective considering they have str5 ap2 guns they can fire before charging, then they can cleave the unit down before it attacks with their str 5 power weapons and 3 attacks (on the charge). Unfortunately this probably wouldn't work too well against SS/TH termies, which are much more common, but it looks like with the numbers people have been running Lychguard are a good counter to them.
Another thought, has anyone considered trying a unit of 5 Lords with warscythes and phase shifters instead of Lychguard? They're essentially the same, except they have 3++ saves and str 7. They cost some more but from what I've seen so far it doesn't appear to be much (55-60 each?)
It's not a terrible tactic for killing terminators if you can get the distances down to get a few rounds of shots in, but there are a couple things that make the plan less than desirable.
1. There are very few circumstances where you'll be able to aim both flayer arrays on the same unit with the Ark.
2. Given that, It'd actually take 3 full Arks of fire to take out a group of 5 terminators on average. 30 shots per Ark, 90 shots, 60 hit, 30 wound, 5 aren't saved.
A better tactic may be some Sword and Board lychgard, with a lord/orb for some resilience/punch.
Or, even, if you can count on running up against termies regularly, the Doomsday Ark could be effective.
Edit: Clarity.
This.
I was suggesting that against things like Chaos Terminators or regular PF terminators (Deathwing?) the Praetorians might be pretty effective considering they have str5 ap2 guns they can fire before charging, then they can cleave the unit down before it attacks with their str 5 power weapons and 3 attacks (on the charge). Unfortunately this probably wouldn't work too well against SS/TH termies, which are much more common, but it looks like with the numbers people have been running Lychguard are a good counter to them.
Another thought, has anyone considered trying a unit of 5 Lords with warscythes and phase shifters instead of Lychguard? They're essentially the same, except they have 3++ saves and str 7. They cost some more but from what I've seen so far it doesn't appear to be much (55-60 each?)
While I think thr Overlord with 5 normal Lords would be an overall stronger unit then an Overlord with Lychguard, using up that Royal Court slot is taking a lot of potential support out of the rest of your army if you don't take another Overlord or opt for a Destroyer Lord as your 2nd HQ.
So, the Praetorians have a 6" gun that's really good.
Think it'd be worth it to sit them in shooting range and keep pounding a unit, while Nemesor Zahndrekh gives them Counter-Attack, and not assaulting, just harassing some unit until it is forced to charge you?
Perhaps even having Zahndrekh in the unit himself, so that when the opponent does charge you, his bodyguard warps in to help out? Or would his lack of jump pack just slow the unit down too much to be useful?
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:So, the Praetorians have a 6" gun that's really good.
Think it'd be worth it to sit them in shooting range and keep pounding a unit, while Nemesor Zahndrekh gives them Counter-Attack, and not assaulting, just harassing some unit until it is forced to charge you?
Perhaps even having Zahndrekh in the unit himself, so that when the opponent does charge you, his bodyguard warps in to help out? Or would his lack of jump pack just slow the unit down too much to be useful?
Or is it better to just shoot and then charge?
I have no idea what you just said, it sounds like half of it is sarcastic and half isn't...
Praetorians are obviously not meant to sit back, unless you're trying to use them as only a counter-assault unit. Even then, Zahndrekh wouldn't really benefit them at all, and they'd be easy for enemies to stay away from. They're much better sitting inside of a transport (if they're able to go into Night Scythes) and using that to get across the battlefield quickly before hopping out to tear stuff apart.
One thing I just thought of that would be quite powerful with these guys is that if they manage to get across the table and charge out of the transport, they could easily be pulled back by a monolith if they're in trouble or need to rescue some warriors. They're not the toughest or the strongest unit, but considering their str and toughness of 5 with lots of power weapons they're nothing to sneeze at either. It really comes down to whether or not they can be put in Night Scythes.
I plan to use Zhandrekh as my Lord. I have a mate who I usually play who loves to deepstrike palidans in with Draigo. My question is does anyone have any ideas atm, of what could be done to counter this unit of 6 (5 palidans and draigo) other than hoping that your large blast from the doomsday cannon doesnt scatter.
Mustakha the Undying wrote:I have no idea what you just said, it sounds like half of it is sarcastic and half isn't...
None of it was.
I frequently play a Space Wolf player, and due to all the Counterattack in his army, he'll often shoot with them while within assault range and not assault, letting the opponent come to him. Saw the short-range guns and availability of Counterattack and considered it, asking for the opinions of others. Though I suppose it matters more when you have Rapid Fire weapons.
I have feeling that there will be cookie cutter lists with 3 annihilation barges and 3 doomsday canons and then lots of MSU warriors on Archs for objectives since moving them means you need 6's to hit them in CC and they can fire off of them and they will be 13,13,10 until penetrated, that makes it the best troop transport to date IMHO.... Consider the fact that the Archs can target multiple enemy transports and damage them due to gauss and this gets out of hand fast...
Lets hope they don't get tank shocking wargear... I think CC Crons seems cool but will never be competitive, you need to poor precious points into expensive and limited numbered elites which is not a good plan... Just shoot them, I think the DD canon seriously was Mat Wards attempt to fix the Paladin spam lists he created... I mean 72" range st9 ap1 Large blast in a book that has a character that brings with him night fight that he can switch off like a lamp!!! Oh your going first? Night Fight.... Ok lets turn the lights on and nuke your terminators!
The Metal Tide wrote:I plan to use Zhandrekh as my Lord. I have a mate who I usually play who loves to deepstrike palidans in with Draigo. My question is does anyone have any ideas atm, of what could be done to counter this unit of 6 (5 palidans and draigo) other than hoping that your large blast from the doomsday cannon doesnt scatter.
One thing I just thought of that would be quite powerful with these guys is that if they manage to get across the table and charge out of the transport, they could easily be pulled back by a monolith if they're in trouble or need to rescue some warriors. They're not the toughest or the strongest unit, but considering their str and toughness of 5 with lots of power weapons they're nothing to sneeze at either. It really comes down to whether or not they can be put in Night Scythes.
I'm pretty sure they can take a nightscythe as a transport and count as 2 models when doing so. So that means you can fit 7 into the nightscythes 15 model capacity.
Hammerhand, rad grenades and halberds will beat you every time... I think it is stupid that rad nades would do anything to the crons, but I feel like they lose this battle 9 times outta 10 AND cost more!
Red Corsair wrote:I have feeling that there will be cookie cutter lists with 3 annihilation barges and 3 doomsday canons and then lots of MSU warriors on Archs for objectives since moving them means you need 6's to hit them in CC and they can fire off of them and they will be 13,13,10 until penetrated, that makes it the best troop transport to date IMHO.... Consider the fact that the Archs can target multiple enemy transports and damage them due to gauss and this gets out of hand fast...
So who was it that first pondered the idea that there might be a chance for Necron mech lists?
Mustakha the Undying wrote:I have no idea what you just said, it sounds like half of it is sarcastic and half isn't...
None of it was.
I frequently play a Space Wolf player, and due to all the Counterattack in his army, he'll often shoot with them while within assault range and not assault, letting the opponent come to him. Saw the short-range guns and availability of Counterattack and considered it, asking for the opinions of others. Though I suppose it matters more when you have Rapid Fire weapons.
Rapid firing into something and letting it come to you as a marine is usually not the best idea though even with counter attack. Even though the number of attacks is 1 greater per model. (1 BP 2 Base 1 Charge compared to 2 rapid fire, 2 base, 1 counter attack)
The reason why has to be obvious to anyone with a grasp on tactics. You are now sitting in front of an army that can shoot you. And you are not denying the opponent their +1 attack for charging. Losing half your unit to enemy shooting because you wanted 1 extra attack is a horrible idea.
That being said! Letting people assault your necrons can work out in your favor as long as the opponent does not have grenades and you are in cover. Take a unit of preatorians, fire into a squad of genestealers. Let them charge you and you get to go first. Had you charged them you are likely to get killed before you even swing. But since the most common opponent will be marines you will want to just charge anyways. You will be going last either way and standing in front of them to let them get another round of shooting AND the charge is a horrible horrible idea.
Red Corsair wrote:I have feeling that there will be cookie cutter lists with 3 annihilation barges and 3 doomsday canons and then lots of MSU warriors on Archs for objectives since moving them means you need 6's to hit them in CC and they can fire off of them and they will be 13,13,10 until penetrated, that makes it the best troop transport to date IMHO.... Consider the fact that the Archs can target multiple enemy transports and damage them due to gauss and this gets out of hand fast...
The only way this will ever work is if you have 6 HS choices since each tank is one per FOC slot
I would agree, but I think the crons will take the shooting fairly easy with a high toughness/cover saves/ self repair protocal and if I am playing the necrons I am not going to bother wasting points on combat tricks when I am already paying points for superior shooting... I think the idea of not assaulting is to gain the additional shot from rapid firing which is a valid arguement because you are now hitting with the additional shot on a 3 rather then going last in combat and hiting on a 4, sure you run the risk of letting them assault but the idea is to eliminate or at least cripple them with your fire power... If you assault them, they go first and are essentially gaining hits on you in your own turn which makes up for their own shooting phase...
How about three units of destroyers with three heavies each and three doomsday cannons. Fill rest with troops and speed bumps. Hmm.. just realized I made a tau list.
Red Corsair wrote:I have feeling that there will be cookie cutter lists with 3 annihilation barges and 3 doomsday canons and then lots of MSU warriors on Archs for objectives since moving them means you need 6's to hit them in CC and they can fire off of them and they will be 13,13,10 until penetrated, that makes it the best troop transport to date IMHO.... Consider the fact that the Archs can target multiple enemy transports and damage them due to gauss and this gets out of hand fast...
The only way this will ever work is if you have 6 HS choices since each tank is one per FOC slot
I missed that, but that only affects the HS slot, the concept still works... Its the troops/archs that are the key anyway, a monolith, nightsith and dd canon works fine but good call!
Also I am not sure that this part of the rumor is true, at least concerning the annihilation barge considering Mat Ward says in the white dwarf bat rep he will be fielding at least 2 of them in his next battle.....
The Metal Tide wrote:I plan to use Zhandrekh as my Lord. I have a mate who I usually play who loves to deepstrike palidans in with Draigo. My question is does anyone have any ideas atm, of what could be done to counter this unit of 6 (5 palidans and draigo) other than hoping that your large blast from the doomsday cannon doesnt scatter.
Same way as any other army. Stay the feth away from CC, and pelt them with weapons > str 7 and < AP 3. Good choices are Doomsday Cannon, Eldritch Lance, Doomscythe's Death Ray, Heavy Gauss Cannons, Tachyon Arrows, and the C'tan Faux-Lascannon.
Good tactic would be to tag them with the Stalker's TL Heavy Cannon, and then go to town with whatever else you can bring to bear.
@The Metal Tide
Otherwise, if you MUST be in close combat with that deathstar, you would need a deathstar (or 2) of your own to counter.
Consider:
A 5 lord strong Royal Court-All with Phase Shifters and Warscythes
Another Overlord-With Orb, Scythe, and Phase Shifter.
(I would recommend Obyron, but he has no mention of an Invuln save, and as an IC he'd be torn to bits in CC with Paladins)
Use Zandrekh to get Furious Charge for the unit.
To ad injury to insult, you could also have a unit of wraiths /w whip coils attack at the same time.
With the furious charge, and the whip coils, you'd swing on the same initiative as the Halberd 'dins, and before any of the others GK's.
19 Str 8 power weapons is pretty dang scary. Even Vs paladins, ~9 hit, 8ish wound, and then depending on if they took the swords or halberds, between 4 and 6ish wounds get through, and because it's double the toughness, 4-5 dead paladins.
Draigo is gonna survive, but the other paladins would be smote mightily. The remaining fight vs draigo and possibly another paladin afterwords is going to be a meat grinder, but sheer number of attacks ought to do it.
It's not a cheap or elegant solution, but it would be effin' epic.
tetrisphreak wrote:Yakface, I think the issue is the Lightning Strikes seem to take place during the Necron player's shooting phase, not their opponent's. If i'm wrong, I'm wrong, but that's how it appears to work in the White Dwarf Battle report (which is all the concrete evidence I have to work from at the moment).
Whoops! My bad, I got that totally mixed up.
Yeah, the Solar Pulse cancels Night Fighting for the player turn its used, so if you use it on your own turn you will be losing Imotekh's lightning strikes for that turn.
Sometimes, you just hope you were wrong :(
Imotekh just got a lot less interesting.
Wording is going to be extremely important here.
If his rule is worded "while nightfighting is in play...lightning" then solar pulse will negate the lightning.
However, if it's more like "nightfighting. By the way...there's also lightning" then the solar pulse should just negate the nightfighting. In that case the lightning would still go off.
I doubt they're going to make a whole new rule just for this guy that includes all the verbage from nightfighting along with specific mention of things like spotlights and the solar pulse. They're more likely to say his ability uses nightfighting rules and randomly shoots lightning at stuff. In which case, no negation. Solar pulses don't specifically negate random lightning. Just nightfighting. The way I see it: a solar pulse is just the galaxy's largest spotlight. It doesn't make the clouds go away. Just lights everything up long enough for your gunners to pull their triggers.
tetrisphreak wrote:Yakface, I think the issue is the Lightning Strikes seem to take place during the Necron player's shooting phase, not their opponent's. If i'm wrong, I'm wrong, but that's how it appears to work in the White Dwarf Battle report (which is all the concrete evidence I have to work from at the moment).
Whoops! My bad, I got that totally mixed up.
Yeah, the Solar Pulse cancels Night Fighting for the player turn its used, so if you use it on your own turn you will be losing Imotekh's lightning strikes for that turn.
Sometimes, you just hope you were wrong :(
Imotekh just got a lot less interesting.
Wording is going to be extremely important here.
If his rule is worded "while nightfighting is in play...lightning" then solar pulse will negate the lightning. However, if it's more like "nightfighting. By the way...there's also lightning" then the solar pulse should just negate the nightfighting. In that case the lightning would still go off.
I doubt they're going to make a whole new rule just for this guy that includes all the verbage from nightfighting along with specific mention of things like spotlights and the solar pulse. They're more likely to say his ability uses nightfighting rules and randomly shoots lightning at stuff. In which case, no negation. Solar pulses don't specifically negate random lightning. Just nightfighting. The way I see it: a solar pulse is just the galaxy's largest spotlight. It doesn't make the clouds go away. Just lights everything up long enough for your gunners to pull their triggers.
So...game on.
The wording on the pulse itself is also going to be real important. It could say, like in the current codex, that "Nightfighting rules Cease to Apply," which could mean no lighting. It could be reworded to say something like the necron units may ignore nightfighting restrictions, and then it'd be pretty kosher for the lightning bolts.
GiantSlingshot wrote:@The Metal Tide
Otherwise, if you MUST be in close combat with that deathstar, you would need a deathstar (or 2) of your own to counter.
Consider:
A 5 lord strong Royal Court-All with Phase Shifters and Warscythes
Another Overlord-With Orb, Scythe, and Phase Shifter.
(I would recommend Obyron, but he has no mention of an Invuln save, and as an IC he'd be torn to bits in CC with Paladins)
Use Zandrekh to get Furious Charge for the unit.
To ad injury to insult, you could also have a unit of wraiths /w whip coils attack at the same time.
With the furious charge, and the whip coils, you'd swing on the same initiative as the Halberd 'dins, and before any of the others GK's.
19 Str 8 power weapons is pretty dang scary. Even Vs paladins, ~9 hit, 8ish wound, and then depending on if they took the swords or halberds, between 4 and 6ish wounds get through, and because it's double the toughness, 4-5 dead paladins.
Draigo is gonna survive, but the other paladins would be smote mightily. The remaining fight vs draigo and possibly another paladin afterwords is going to be a meat grinder, but sheer number of attacks ought to do it.
It's not a cheap or elegant solution, but it would be effin' epic.
Actually they cast sanctuary, you lose a guy and possibly fail the charge, they also use a warding staff and draigos shield for wound allocation and since you have an IC in that unit his attacks can be re-allocated, so when it's all said in down you might kill a few then they wipe your unit...fail.... there is no way you "grind" them down as you stated but good luck trying.
Sasori wrote:I love the new Direction Necrons are going in. And I'm an old Necron player.
Me too. I'm especially in love with the open-endedness we get for our personal fluff now. I used to get dirty looks when I started talking about my army and how they were "special" because..."you play necrons. They're supposed to be all the same!" or "deceiver or nightbringer. Pick one".
Now I get to have my phaeron be a loyal servant of the Deceiver who is secretly using the forces of his small-ish dynasty to reassemble the sundered C'tan so that he may consume everything. ...and nobody can say anything about it.
Only thing that changed for me is the exact status of the deceiver.
...and the number of models I now need to paint...
Sectiplave wrote:
It makes me sad, but I get the impression that you should forget most of the old Wraith fluff, they aren't Necron's anymore, they are constructs like Tomb Spyders and Scarabs, and will be getting a whole new model to suit this. So the idea of quick, lithe and ethereal Wraiths is a thing of the past :(
Keep in mind, though, that Wraiths can now get Whip Coils, an equipment option that forces their enemies in CC to strike at I1 thus you still strike first
GiantSlingshot wrote:Tachyon Arrow is Str 10 AP 1 unlimited range. Pretty much everything is on page 1, just have to ctrl+f and text search.
ctrl+f, nice. didnt know that. must remember it. thanks.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Yak.
So I was wondering. Can two royal courts be taken if Zhandrekh and obryon are taken in the same army under the same HQ slot.
Kroothawk wrote:
Phil Kelly said at the OZ games day that they are trying to follow the TyranidDark Eldar release schedule for all future releases.
So, release a few miniatures, repackage others so you get less for more money, and completely ignore other minis? And when other companies decide to release kits to help make those miniatures, take them to court and then seemingly fall apart when it turns out that you don't actually have a case?
Yeah, that sounds like GW.
That's the actual quote. The person above you (infinite array) was joking when he said Tyranids. Quite a smart joke I admit...
I just realized Anrakyr the Traveller is a boss. He comes with a tachyon arrow and has the ability to come with a court, so he is just as useful as a basic lord in those regards. He also has the ability to hack into another vehicle 18" away. Put him in a ccb, rush him up at a vehicle on an enemies side, and use it to blast away a transport turn 1. then decimate the vehicle you just shot with. Against a GK player, rush at his psirifleman dread, take it over and shoot another psirifleman dread with his, hopefully killing it, then either use his tachyon arrow, or another unit to kill the hacked the dread you just shot with. Also, activate a solar pulse on their turn. If this guy has a warscythe, he could easily be the best lord imo.
Well, I get my Doomsday Ark on Saturday, can't wait to get into building it. Several people here have talked about taking the damaged warriors from the kit and transforming them into Wraiths. Looking at the sprues, that seems quite a lot of work to me so I propose a different use for those excess bodies - Corpse Markers.
Every time a Necron unit takes a casualty, you put down a marker to show you need to make a RP roll, well I have extra bases, and having a visually dammaged model on the field is better, from my point of view, than a shiny glass bead or a red dice. So I will take away my whole warrior and put a corpse marker in it's place, then if I make my RP roll, reverse the process.
I decided on getting the Ark before the codex as I don't get paid until the 15th, and by then I may have been using it in an Apocalypse game - where I plan on targetting the weakest unit on the opposition, wiping them out on turn 1, then saying "Oh dear, that unit has just phased out!" just to see how others like it after having seen many games against necrons turn from proper games where you had to capture objectives, to Annhiliation games where the other player just went to phase out the Necrons and win that way. (Man, I am so glad that rule went out the window!)
However, I can see a strategy where you place a monolith in the centre of your deployment area with a Doomsday Ark on each side, half way between the Mono and the table edge. Turn the Arks in toward the centre and you create a triangle and cut your opponent's lines into 2 or 3 pieces and make him scared of reinforceing the small force on the inside of the triangle. You can then push the Mono towards him knowing that any Melta squads have to cross the Triangle of Death to get to your Mono, which can then start vomiting squads close enough to his positions that he will have to take care of them or take major casualties, and you split his attention between your Arks, the Mono itself, and the squads it is bringing up much faster than they could otherwise get there.
Obviously there is still terrain to worry about, and you need some protection to stop him just flanking the Arks, but once the Mono is closer to himn than you, that becomes his main threat, and that relieves the pressure on the Arks. With one or two Tachyon Arrows taking out (Hopefully) his strongest AT, you stand a reasonable chance of pulling this off, and it is something that can be done under the Stormlords Nightfight rules. Once in position, remove the nightfight rules and use Solar Pulses to keep the range restriction on the enemy but not you, and you have still had the benefit of the Lightning softening him up for a couple of turns too.
Does turning on the spot to get a better line of fire count as moving though? That could make it essential to set up properly so you don't have to turn and loose the 72" range Large blast weapon.
My only worry with the arrow is that you can't really put it on anything with a BS higher than 4, so 1/3 of the time that 30pts is flying out the window. Still, having a Cryptek with a Chronometron in the unit fixes that.
Unless, there's some stats floating out there we don't know, but as far as I know only Overlords can take the Arrow, and according to the website the Overlord has a BS of 4.
So if you fire it after the entire army is twin-linked, you get to roll again for free.
Shame that using the Chronometron in that instance does not give you both rolls again, but hey ho, even then you can arrange to have 3 rolls not just 1, so you should be able to hit most of the time.
whether I could still hit would be debatable, my rolls are , except for leadership tests which always seem to come back . Still, with 3 attempts, I should be able to make 1 of them work I suppose!
It is unfortunate that they have tried to steer things more in the way of the Tomb Kings with the new 'Crons.
I reckon that a large part of their Tomb Kings-y appearance comes from the lurid, 'Egyptian' pallette they have on the boxcover models.
Imagine them with the plain silver, black and green combo' of olde and they'll look much less Tomb Kings-y.
Very glad they came to their senses with making sure you can have "legions" of these things with cheaper models points-wise.
I will be Fielding Annie instead of dd Ark because of its mobility and strength vs light transports and infantry alike. For anti tank duty tachyon arrows seem pretty good - a one shot railgun for 1/3 the cost of a broadside xv88. Just a little longer until release...
The Tachyon is probably not a good call at 30 points. I was hoping for less, to distro tachyon lords to basic troop units for a shot at tank-killin' spread out early on.
2/3 to hit x 2/3 to pen (AV12) x 1/2 to kill, and possibly x 1/2 cover against any opponent with half a brain. Not a great set of odds ... lookin' at 1/9 for the covered target, for 30 points, against the very common AV12.
Anybody planning to use Immortals as part of your troop selection? Seems to me they aren't as useful as they can't be reparied by the ark like the warriors. Having their assault 2 weapon changed to a rapid fire weapon also doesn't particularly impress me.
Warriors are pretty awful; durable enough with an ark and enough models but with almost no offensive power (S4 rapid fire gun, hyper expensive transport that costs nearly as much as the 10 warriors, and I2 A1 4+ sv).
Tesla Carbine immortals buffed by multi-charging scarabs to render even the AP- useful against bunches of AV5-7 transports = the way to go for me right now. If you want warriors are scorers, just take 5 of them and reserve walk 'em on for backfield objective duty ... hell of a lot cheaper; and it's not as if 10 in a barge are going to survive midfield or further in a still-melta-rich meta.
Tesla Carbines are pretty bad compared to the normal gun Immortals can use, considering they cost 3 points per model and are on average only very slightly better at 24" and far worse at 12". Even with a maxed squad, assuming they take no casualties, you're only going to be getting 10 extra telsa hits per three turns. whereas if the enemy steps into 18" range, you instantly get that with the rapid fire version and you get to make them take saves against the whole squad rather than just the ablative mooks.
As for the expense of the transport for the warriors, at 115 points it's amazing for a dedicated transport. The only vehicle that really compares is perhaps the falcon/wave serpent, and they also happen to be at a similar points cost. And if you're not liking the fact that it costs almost the same as 9 warriors (not 10) note that it has the equivalent of 10 warriors' firepower alone. Add into that the fact that it's a high-armor transport and can regenerate wounds and it's really not that bad (having returned 10 total warriors to play on average over the course of a 5-turn game, even by your math, it pays for itself). Warriors also have effectively a 6/9 chance of saving a given wound, while immortals have 7/9. The only difference is ap4 weapons, which means that Guard will still kick the crap out of warrior-based armies, but most other forces still hvae their average guns clocking in at ap5 or worse.
I think both types of armies have their benefits and drawbacks. Personally, I like the relative comfort of the Immortals' strength 5, but I will probably still use one or two transports full of warriors to hold objectives.
On a side note, I feel that with the rediculous dimensions of said transports, yak might want to change the INAT ruling about turning after entering the board edge, because the necrons are going to get over 6" of free movement if that's still going to work the same moving forward.
Kitzz wrote:Tesla Carbines are pretty bad compared to the normal gun Immortals can use, considering they cost 3 points per model and are on average only very slightly better at 24" and far worse at 12". Even with a maxed squad, assuming they take no casualties, you're only going to be getting 10 extra telsa hits per three turns. whereas if the enemy steps into 18" range, you instantly get that with the rapid fire version and you get to make them take saves against the whole squad rather than just the ablative mooks.
where are you gettinng the 3 points for the carbines from? Everything so far has hinted at a free swap out
Oh, it was a rumor I heard from somewhere else. As I've heard, GW sends out several versions of their new codicies to different places for different playtesters. This way they can determine which minor tweaks are favorable, and also which playtesters are leaking...wait...hold on a second...
*WHAMWHAMWHAM*
...and thakfully, no leaks have been found!
In all seriousness, the rumor I'm speaking of (from faeit 212 iirc) was in all likelihood from another playtest group. Whether that version was more successful or not, I can't know. What I do know is that mathematically, the immortal tesla gun is far weaker than their older version, and imho worse than the normal rapid fire gun.
Btw, does anyone know how much deathmarks cost? I heard they were prohibitively expensive, but I think they would be cool in a themed army.
Actually, I would think that the tesla guns would be better at fighting MEQ. It has longer range, so you can keep harassing them with out getting charged, and there is a chance that you may inflict a bunch of hits.
The -AP doesn't really matter because they would get their save anyway against the Blasters.
TheNightbringer wrote:Still why should you choice Tesla over Guass in the first place then? Since the extra hits only come when you roll six and you have no AP.
Tesla is an assault weapon. It's nice being able to move and shoot 24".
All the first page says is any friendly non-vehicle necron unit may be teleported through the monolith. Since some units are not, possibly, designated as necrons per the current rumours (wraiths, spyders and scarabs), would this statement mean any friendly necron units as in "in the Necron codex" or as in "who count as Necrons"?.
If that makes any sense.
Personally I'd love to drop a monolith down and immediately port a unit of 3 tomb spyders or 10 scarabs right by an IG parking lot and watch all hell break loose.
Don't know if this has been brought up already, but flicking through the codex and on Imotekh's page, his rule for Lord of the Storm clearly states at the end that "Night Fighting rules brought into play by a Solar Pulse does not generate lightning". Coupled with the part which states that after the first 'round' of night fighting ends, whether that be by choice, Solar Pulse or not rolling higher than the game turn, Imotekh cannot attempt to make Night Fighting apply.
So it makes Night Fight/Solar Pulse shenanigans not so appealing as you're not really getting much use out of the Lightning and 200+ points is a lot if you just want him for this.
So, I have the habit of getting bored with a paint scheme pretty quick. It has been my plan to paint each unit of 'crons in a different way, so as to get some varied paint experience.
To this effect, I've been thinking of basing my army on Anrakyr, as he collects tributes of soldiers from tomb worlds he wakes up, so, it'd make sense to have all sorts of color schemes.
Like a few other people in this thread, I realize I have no idea what wargear he's got, other than a Tachyon Arrow.
Anyone with something like a codex able to enlighten us about his loadout?
GiantSlingshot wrote:So, I have the habit of getting bored with a paint scheme pretty quick. It has been my plan to paint each unit of 'crons in a different way, so as to get some varied paint experience.
To this effect, I've been thinking of basing my army on Anrakyr, as he collects tributes of soldiers from tomb worlds he wakes up, so, it'd make sense to have all sorts of color schemes.
Like a few other people in this thread, I realize I have no idea what wargear he's got, other than a Tachyon Arrow.
Anyone with something like a codex able to enlighten us about his loadout?
Anrakyr has a Tachyon Arrow (which is fantastic btw, Infinite range!) and a Warscythe.
His special rules are: Counter Attack, Ever Living, Furious Charge, IC, Reanimation Protocols.
Also Mind in the Machine (control an enemy vehicle within 18" on a 3+) and Pyrrhian Eternals ( Can take a unit of Immortals with Counter Attack and Furious Charge.
The Decapitator wrote:Don't know if this has been brought up already, but flicking through the codex and on Imotekh's page, his rule for Lord of the Storm clearly states at the end that "Night Fighting rules brought into play by a Solar Pulse does not generate lightning". Coupled with the part which states that after the first 'round' of night fighting ends, whether that be by choice, Solar Pulse or not rolling higher than the game turn, Imotekh cannot attempt to make Night Fighting apply.
So it makes Night Fight/Solar Pulse shenanigans not so appealing as you're not really getting much use out of the Lightning and 200+ points is a lot if you just want him for this.
I don't quite understand what you are getting at. The point of bringing the Solar Pulses, is so that you can clear up the night fighting on your turn to blast a the enemy, while it is still active on the enemies, thanks to The Stormlords rules.
Yak also detailed his Ideas for using Imotekh a few pages back as well, about just letting the enemy come to you while keeping up the nightfighting going.
However, I don't know if paying 225 points for him is worth it or not considering if the 2D6 pen for Warscythes pans out, I'll probably just be taking two vanilla lords anyway.
GiantSlingshot wrote:So, I have the habit of getting bored with a paint scheme pretty quick. It has been my plan to paint each unit of 'crons in a different way, so as to get some varied paint experience.
To this effect, I've been thinking of basing my army on Anrakyr, as he collects tributes of soldiers from tomb worlds he wakes up, so, it'd make sense to have all sorts of color schemes.
Like a few other people in this thread, I realize I have no idea what wargear he's got, other than a Tachyon Arrow.
Anyone with something like a codex able to enlighten us about his loadout?
Anrakyr has a Tachyon Arrow (which is fantastic btw, Infinite range!) and a Warscythe.
His special rules are: Counter Attack, Ever Living, Furious Charge, IC, Reanimation Protocols.
Also Mind in the Machine (control an enemy vehicle within 18" on a 3+) and Pyrrhian Eternals ( Can take a unit of Immortals with Counter Attack and Furious Charge.
GiantSlingshot wrote:So, I have the habit of getting bored with a paint scheme pretty quick. It has been my plan to paint each unit of 'crons in a different way, so as to get some varied paint experience.
To this effect, I've been thinking of basing my army on Anrakyr, as he collects tributes of soldiers from tomb worlds he wakes up, so, it'd make sense to have all sorts of color schemes.
Like a few other people in this thread, I realize I have no idea what wargear he's got, other than a Tachyon Arrow.
Anyone with something like a codex able to enlighten us about his loadout?
Anrakyr has a Tachyon Arrow (which is fantastic btw, Infinite range!) and a Warscythe.
His special rules are: Counter Attack, Ever Living, Furious Charge, IC, Reanimation Protocols.
Also Mind in the Machine (control an enemy vehicle within 18" on a 3+) and Pyrrhian Eternals ( Can take a unit of Immortals with Counter Attack and Furious Charge.
Wow, he sounds quite awesome, what's his point cost?
In addition, how much are we looking at for Command Barges? Rhino Range?
Sasori wrote:I don't quite understand what you are getting at. The point of bringing the Solar Pulses, is so that you can clear up the night fighting on your turn to blast a the enemy, while it is still active on the enemies, thanks to The Stormlords rules.
Yak cleared up that using a Solar Pulse on your player turn means that the lightning strikes do not happen. Considering you're paying a premium for that ability, it's pretty bad.
Sasori wrote:I don't quite understand what you are getting at. The point of bringing the Solar Pulses, is so that you can clear up the night fighting on your turn to blast a the enemy, while it is still active on the enemies, thanks to The Stormlords rules.
Yak cleared up that using a Solar Pulse on your player turn means that the lightning strikes do not happen. Considering you're paying a premium for that ability, it's pretty bad.
I'm well aware. Uou're also paying for his Unique Wargear, and his 4+ to seize as well. Personally, I don't put to much stock in the Lightning Strikes. They are pretty random, regardless. I put more importance on his Night fighting, and getting at least two turns of near unmolested shooting in, as my priority.
I've already discussed my feelings on my Generic lords VS the Stormlord a few pages back, regardless both will take some testing to find the happy medium that I'd like.
Anrakyr has a Tachyon Arrow (which is fantastic btw, Infinite range!) and a Warscythe.
His special rules are: Counter Attack, Ever Living, Furious Charge, IC, Reanimation Protocols.
Also Mind in the Machine (control an enemy vehicle within 18" on a 3+) and Pyrrhian Eternals ( Can take a unit of Immortals with Counter Attack and Furious Charge.
Sounds good so far, he has the mandatory Overlord equipment (aka Warscythe) and a Tacyhon Arrow though Pyrrhian Eternals is strange...giving CC abilities to a unit that would rather avoid CC by all cost? I'd prefer Hit and Run...though..with I2...hmmm. Mind in the Machine also sounds awesome but I'd say that it only allows you to shoot with a vehicle's weapons, fully controlling it would be quite unfair. A turn with Anrakyr would look funny though: sweep over an enemy vehicle, disembark and charge another vehicle, let a remaining one shoot at its own allies. Sounds fun
The Solar Pulse is one use only and either stops Night Fighting or starts it. The Stormlord enables Night Fighting at the start of the game, but once the NF rule is stopped for whatever reason then he cannot enable it again at any point for the rest of the game, it says that here clearly. Along with the fact that Lightning attacks are not available to use with NF from a Solar Pulse. He is Lysander + a power fist points wise.
Warscythe is 2 handed CC weapon, attacks at +2 strength and have 2d6 Armour Penetration, armour saves not allowed against wounds caused.
Command Barge is DT and points cost is 2 x SM Razorback (no upgrades) + the Lord.
GiantSlingshot wrote:So, I have the habit of getting bored with a paint scheme pretty quick. It has been my plan to paint each unit of 'crons in a different way, so as to get some varied paint experience.
To this effect, I've been thinking of basing my army on Anrakyr, as he collects tributes of soldiers from tomb worlds he wakes up, so, it'd make sense to have all sorts of color schemes.
Like a few other people in this thread, I realize I have no idea what wargear he's got, other than a Tachyon Arrow.
Anyone with something like a codex able to enlighten us about his loadout?
Anrakyr has a Tachyon Arrow (which is fantastic btw, Infinite range!) and a Warscythe.
His special rules are: Counter Attack, Ever Living, Furious Charge, IC, Reanimation Protocols.
Also Mind in the Machine (control an enemy vehicle within 18" on a 3+) and Pyrrhian Eternals ( Can take a unit of Immortals with Counter Attack and Furious Charge.
furious charge on... Immortals...
i dunno if i'd ever take those, as cool as "Pyrrhian Eternal" sounds.
The Decapitator wrote:Anrakyr has a Tachyon Arrow (which is fantastic btw, Infinite range!) and a Warscythe.
His special rules are: Counter Attack, Ever Living, Furious Charge, IC, Reanimation Protocols.
Also Mind in the Machine (control an enemy vehicle within 18" on a 3+) and Pyrrhian Eternals ( Can take a unit of Immortals with Counter Attack and Furious Charge.
If this is true, that guy is a must with a Command Barge. He could just fly around your enemy's lines ruining vehicles left and right
The Decapitator wrote:The Solar Pulse is one use only and either stops Night Fighting or starts it. The Stormlord enables Night Fighting at the start of the game, but once the NF rule is stopped for whatever reason then he cannot enable it again at any point for the rest of the game, it says that here clearly. Along with the fact that Lightning attacks are not available to use with NF from a Solar Pulse. He is Lysander + a power fist points wise.
Warscythe is 2 handed CC weapon, attacks at +2 strength and have 2d6 Armour Penetration, armour saves not allowed against wounds caused.
Command Barge is DT and points cost is 2 x SM Razorback (no upgrades) + the Lord.
The Command barge is the same cost as an Annilation Barge? that seems nuts.
and wow, the bolded part is new information. That, I did not know.
The Mind in the Machine rule states "Anrakyr overrides the targeting systems in that vehicle - you can immediately shoot with it as of it was you unit. It cannot alter it's facing and fires as if it hadn't moved. You can ignore crew shaken and stunned on that vehicle for the attack but not weapon destroyed. Once you have fired, it goes back to your opponents control.
The Decapitator wrote:The Solar Pulse is one use only and either stops Night Fighting or starts it. The Stormlord enables Night Fighting at the start of the game, but once the NF rule is stopped for whatever reason then he cannot enable it again at any point for the rest of the game, it says that here clearly. Along with the fact that Lightning attacks are not available to use with NF from a Solar Pulse. He is Lysander + a power fist points wise.
So basically, if I use Solar Pulse during my turn in order to shoot, Night Fighting will not re-apply?
The Decapitator wrote:The Mind in the Machine rule states "Anrakyr overrides the targeting systems in that vehicle - you can immediately shoot with it as of it was you unit. It cannot alter it's facing and fires as if it hadn't moved. You can ignore crew shaken and stunned on that vehicle for the attack but not weapon destroyed. Once you have fired, it goes back to your opponents control.
Kitzz wrote:Tesla Carbines are pretty bad compared to the normal gun Immortals can use, considering they cost 3 points per model and are on average only very slightly better at 24" and far worse at 12". Even with a maxed squad, assuming they take no casualties, you're only going to be getting 10 extra telsa hits per three turns. whereas if the enemy steps into 18" range, you instantly get that with the rapid fire version and you get to make them take saves against the whole squad rather than just the ablative mooks.
As for the expense of the transport for the warriors, at 115 points it's amazing for a dedicated transport. The only vehicle that really compares is perhaps the falcon/wave serpent, and they also happen to be at a similar points cost. And if you're not liking the fact that it costs almost the same as 9 warriors (not 10) note that it has the equivalent of 10 warriors' firepower alone. Add into that the fact that it's a high-armor transport and can regenerate wounds and it's really not that bad (having returned 10 total warriors to play on average over the course of a 5-turn game, even by your math, it pays for itself). Warriors also have effectively a 6/9 chance of saving a given wound, while immortals have 7/9. The only difference is ap4 weapons, which means that Guard will still kick the crap out of warrior-based armies, but most other forces still hvae their average guns clocking in at ap5 or worse.
I think both types of armies have their benefits and drawbacks. Personally, I like the relative comfort of the Immortals' strength 5, but I will probably still use one or two transports full of warriors to hold objectives.
On a side note, I feel that with the rediculous dimensions of said transports, yak might want to change the INAT ruling about turning after entering the board edge, because the necrons are going to get over 6" of free movement if that's still going to work the same moving forward.
The switch between Guass Blasters and Tesla carbines are free
And in my opinion they are better than blasters unless in one spesific situation: blasters rapid firing on enemies with a save of 4+
blasters are rapid fire, carbines are assault one. With carbines having a chance of making 3 hits out of one that's pretty awesome, even if they get a save from it. Plus if a cryptec is in the unit or something they can at least have the ability to assault if need be.
Meh, great, sitting on a lot of Necron Warriors but no Immortals...kind of sucks and getting as many Immortals with Teslas as normally necessary will be pretty expensive. 18€ / 5 Immortals is bad. A lot better than before yet still bad. Yay, you also get spare parts for a sniper unit you're not going to field anyway.
I mean...old warriors were 30€ (18€) a box. One warrior was 18 points, 12 warriors in a box. Now, Immortals are Troops, 18 points each, 5 in a box. Really? That's rip-off.
I'm sorry, but no matter how cool the rules are, or how good the models. £20.50 is ****ing extortionate for 5 normal size models (ie. Not termies/larger models)!!! It is getting ridiculous...
The Decapitator wrote:The Solar Pulse is one use only and either stops Night Fighting or starts it. The Stormlord enables Night Fighting at the start of the game, but once the NF rule is stopped for whatever reason then he cannot enable it again at any point for the rest of the game, it says that here clearly. Along with the fact that Lightning attacks are not available to use with NF from a Solar Pulse. He is Lysander + a power fist points wise.
So basically, if I use Solar Pulse during my turn in order to shoot, Night Fighting will not re-apply?
The Decapitator wrote:The Mind in the Machine rule states "Anrakyr overrides the targeting systems in that vehicle - you can immediately shoot with it as of it was you unit. It cannot alter it's facing and fires as if it hadn't moved. You can ignore crew shaken and stunned on that vehicle for the attack but not weapon destroyed. Once you have fired, it goes back to your opponents control.
The Decapitator wrote:The Mind in the Machine rule states "Anrakyr overrides the targeting systems in that vehicle - you can immediately shoot with it as of it was you unit. It cannot alter it's facing and fires as if it hadn't moved. You can ignore crew shaken and stunned on that vehicle for the attack but not weapon destroyed. Once you have fired, it goes back to your opponents control.
Command is 10 less that Annialation Barge.
Thanks again, What's Anrakyrs Points cost? We know the Stormlord is 225 from the WD, and every character is supposed to be cheaper than him.
You could use another Solar Pulse but as I said they are one use only, and you can only take 2.
Thanks a lot for the information! It's interesting how in the last few days, I went from "Wow, I will really buy Imotekh!" over "Hmmm, let's see how it works out." to "Imo-what?".
Anyone already got any ideas for converting Warriors to Tesla Immortals? ;D
You could use another Solar Pulse but as I said they are one use only, and you can only take 2.
Thanks a lot for the information! It's interesting how in the last few days, I went from "Wow, I will really buy Imotekh!" over "Hmmm, let's see how it works out." to "Imo-what?".
Anyone got any ideas for converting Warriors to Tesla Immortals already? ;D
Yeah, He's still got such a Badass model though, that I'll have him stand in for one of my Generic Overlords.
Sigvatr wrote:Meh, great, sitting on a lot of Necron Warriors but no Immortals...kind of sucks and getting as many Immortals with Teslas as normally necessary will be pretty expensive. 18€ / 5 Immortals is bad. A lot better than before yet still bad. Yay, you also get spare parts for a sniper unit you're not going to field anyway.
I mean...old warriors were 30€ (18€) a box. One warrior was 18 points, 12 warriors in a box. Now, Immortals are Troops, 18 points each, 5 in a box. Really? That's rip-off.
I don't get the "warriors suck" thing.
Marine stats with a 4+ and a 5+ RP and I2 for 13 pts
can glance land raiders, hell can glance anything.
With a ghost ark nearby they can generate D3 more warriors if the RP didn't work so hot plus they get fire support. And if you run barges, monoliths, C'tan and lychguard the enemy has some real target saturation issues to deal with.
If anyone is concerned about objective holding just run two arks with warriors, two MSU immortal units, and hell if you wanted to seriously piss off your opponent, drop down a monolith with Tzan the infinite and some lychguard with shields: "oh hey i'm a scoring IC and have a mini deathstar unit with me, oh and this big thing i came out of? yeah you have to deal with that now too"
Kitzz wrote:Hey...has what the monolith can port changed at all? I am very interested in this.
You really need to read the first page, all of the questions you've asked so far, could have been answered if you read it.
Really? I happen to have read all 150 or so pages of this thread, and I have not seen a satisfactory answer to the following, all of which I have asked:
Has what the monolith can port changed at all?
I asked this because no other vehicle (outside APOC) can transport monstrous creatures (C'tan), Cavalry (Scarabs), and Vehicles (Barges/Arks/Scyhtes). The way it is currently worded, all are possible, as it is only a disembark and no models are ever actually transported "inside" from what I can tell.
Can I use the Cryptek's re-roll ability to re-roll Imotekh's night fight roll?
Does each unit of deathmarks get to pick a different unit to wound on a 2+?
What is the points cost for deathmarks?
I apologize, this one was answered at 19 points since the last time I took a look at the first post. Unfortunately, I tend not to re-read the first post every time I look at a thread. It's certainly interesting, and something I'll have to think on.
I don't get the "warriors suck" thing. Marine stats with a 4+ and a 5+ RP and I2 for 13 pts can glance land raiders, hell can glance anything. With a ghost ark nearby they can generate D3 more warriors if the RP didn't work so hot plus they get fire support. And if you run barges, monoliths, C'tan and lychguard the enemy has some real target saturation issues to deal with.
They do not suck, I never said that and would never say so. I just stated that Immortals are the far superior choice right now (at least in my area) as most people play MEQ and a simple Gauss Blaster has S4 and AP5...basically a bolter thus it will hardly damage a normal marine. The Tesla Weapons, however, have the chance to deal 3 hits with 1 shot and while neither can they penetrate the 3+, the simply lay down more potential wounds and thus might cause more losses...not to mention that they are Assault 2 instead of Rapid Fire. I want my guys to stay out of CC for as long as I possibly can.
And seriously, the new prices are a pure rip-off. Nothing else. The Necron box got 33% more expensive and while the Immortals "box" got a LOT cheaper, they are also worth 11 points less. As stated above: we used to pay 30€ for 12 units that cost 18 points + 3 swarms and now, we are to pay 26€ for FIVE models at 17 points? Ridiculous. I buy at Wayland, of course, yet it still is extremely expensive. Why not just charge 30€ for 10 Immortals and sell Deathmarks in a seperate box? Anyone here who actually wants those guys?
Gavin Thorne wrote:
I'm working on it.
When I figure it out, I'll put a tutorial in the P&M Tutes forum.
If you succeed...I want your babies. Little robot babies. With Gauss rifles
Imortals and warriors can't crack a 3+ yes but were you really expecting them to? these are the basic run of the mill troopers, they are PvP not so much anti tank, spec op, support, or artilery
IronfrontAlex wrote:Imortals and warriors can't crack a 3+ yes but were you really expecting them to? these are the basic run of the mill troopers, they are PvP not so much anti tank, spec op, support, or artilery
Of course not. But Tesla Immortals can potentially inflict more wounds on MEQ while Gauss Shots will be reflected most of the time.
The Tesla Weapons, however, have the chance to deal 3 hits with 1 shot and while neither can they penetrate the 3+, the simply lay down more potential wounds and thus might cause more losses...not to mention that they are Assault 2 instead of Rapid Fire.
Tesla carbines are Assault 1, this is in the white dwarf.
While the potential for more damage is there, math works out that on average they kill as many MEq per shot as 2 gauss flayers shots. Which is still good for assault 24", but means warriors can dish out a little more damage for the points (if only at 12" range, which has its issues of course) and have gauss and are not -1 on the damage chart. Still much prefer immortals with tesla, but I think this illustrates they did a good job with the internal balance of these weapons (unlike the horrible issues with Tyranid weapons, for example).
I have read serveral people saying there is no street date for this release, however I cannot find a reason for this anywhere. I need to convince my flgs that they should take my money tonight! Halp
I'm having a hard time weighing Warriors vs. Immortals myself. Compared side by side, Immortals have the edge with much better weapons and a 3+ sv for only a few more points, but the Ghost Ark could make a big difference. Added mobility, added survivability...but the Ark also means a lot of added points. I'm personally inclined toward taking an even mix of Tesla/Gauss Immortals and no Warriors. Mostly because it seems Warriors need the Ark, and I really dislike that model.
a single squad of Warriors, along with a Ghost Ark, seems plenty sturdy to me. i could make it 9 warriors and a Lord to give them a Res Orb, but that will probably be unnecessary with the Ark putting guys back every so often.
the rest of my troops are definitely going to be Tesla Immortals, possibly with VoDs from the Crypteks to replicate how i currently play. though that forces me to take that Abyssal Stave, which i think is right awful. if we still had the Ld reduction somewhere it'd be cooler, but we don't, so it's blah.
eh... the Abyssal Staff works out to be a S4 AP1 flamer most of the time. Against some pretty common stuff (anything with Ld 7) it's roughly equal to a S5 AP1 flamer.
I personally will continue to do what I've always done anyway, and field warriors AND Immortals.
However, will just now have the Tesla, and use warriors to shield them on the way in. I plan on getting a Cryptek in there for the re rolls most likely if allowed, which should up the rate of fire.
Ghost Arks behind the warriors to augment and keep them as an advancing line, with Destroyers on the flanks, Monolith behind and/or in reserve as deep strike. I always loved teleporting troops out of combat and letting them fire which I know is a no-no nowadays, but I can still see the benefit in keeping a Monolith behind for a sneaky teleport as CC gets into range
I hope that you can take a unit of 5 with upgrading individuals to heavy destroyer now, it'll be a good all round unit with potential kick on anything - nice for those units with IC's too if you have a couple of heavy shots.
I think I'm going to go light on CC myself, I have a unit of 10 Pariahs with Warscythes that i'll most likely keep around with an Overlord as protection, but I Really think shooting is going to be key here.
I might take Deathmarks, have to read up on them - but will most likely buy a box of Warriors to build them and the Immortals through conversion - and get the benefit of the Scarab bases (3 per base for efficiency).
Cryage wrote:Can the gauss arrays on the ark's fire at the same targets?
I mean lets say this is what it looks like (A = enemy group 1, B = enemy group 2, OOO = ark)
A
OOO
B
I know the arrays can shoot at 'A' & 'B' using 1 array each.
What about in this situation:
OOO A
Can both of the arrays fire at enemy A ?
And lastly, this situation
A
OOO
Can both arrays fire at A , or only the one side?
you'd only be able to shoot with whichever flayer array was facing them, so both arrays wouldn't be able to shoot the same unit (unless they formed a U around you, or something strange) .
Drakmord wrote:a single squad of Warriors, along with a Ghost Ark, seems plenty sturdy to me. i could make it 9 warriors and a Lord to give them a Res Orb, but that will probably be unnecessary with the Ark putting guys back every so often.
the rest of my troops are definitely going to be Tesla Immortals, possibly with VoDs from the Crypteks to replicate how i currently play. though that forces me to take that Abyssal Stave, which i think is right awful. if we still had the Ld reduction somewhere it'd be cooler, but we don't, so it's blah.
I'd say a lord with a Rez orb would be pretty unnescary.
I think the Abyssal staff isn't too bad. Could be useful for clearing out units in cover.
Apologies for the mistake and thanks for the clarification - this certainly clears up the issue of taking Immortals with Gauss or Tesla, yet there still is (my) issue with Warriors vs Immortals.
I just ran a quick mathhammer and given that I did not fail, it seems that Necron Warriors are about on par with Tesla Immortals (on average) when they are in 12'' to their target...which seems to be extremely risky to me and their point difference isn't that big.
Then again, they could take an ark...
Sigh, I'm simply torn right now. I don't want to spend hundreds on Immortals yet Warriors seem to be somehow lacking...hmpf.
you'd only be able to shoot with whichever flayer array was facing them, so both arrays wouldn't be able to shoot the same unit (unless they formed a U around you, or something strange) .
Ah, so it does suffer the same issue as land raiders.
So I was thinking of immortal weapons while we're on the topic of this...
10 shots with the tesla , assault 1 weapon you MAY roll 2 6's which result in 14 potential wounds.
With their gauss weapons, if you are in 12" and rapid fire, thats 20 shots and 20 potential wounds... Why choose the tesla? (unless I'm missing something).
you'd only be able to shoot with whichever flayer array was facing them, so both arrays wouldn't be able to shoot the same unit (unless they formed a U around you, or something strange) .
Ah, so it does suffer the same issue as land raiders.
Its hard to say without the model in hand but it looks like they are even worse off then land raiders. At least their sponsons can fire directly forward and even a little toward the center. The ghost arks arrays appear to have spines in the way, keeping them from firing forward
IronfrontAlex wrote:Because your chances of more hits from double that distance is much higher with tesla
True enough I guess you can try and kite a swarm as much as possible, unless you're fighting hormagants which can run 3d6... lol
That being said though, put a monolith as a nice retreat safe spot to put some serious firepower on the swarm... OR keep a monolith across the board and port the immortals when the swarm closes in
IronfrontAlex wrote:Because your chances of more hits from double that distance is much higher with tesla
True enough I guess you can try and kite a swarm as much as possible, unless you're fighting hormagants which can run 3d6... lol
That being said though, put a monolith as a nice retreat safe spot to put some serious firepower on the swarm... OR keep a monolith across the board and port the immortals when the swarm closes in
And that is where the Blasters will come in handy.
IronfrontAlex wrote:Because your chances of more hits from double that distance is much higher with tesla
True enough I guess you can try and kite a swarm as much as possible, unless you're fighting hormagants which can run 3d6... lol
That being said though, put a monolith as a nice retreat safe spot to put some serious firepower on the swarm... OR keep a monolith across the board and port the immortals when the swarm closes in
And that is where the Blasters will come in handy.
As I said earlier :
Tesla: Anti-MEQ
Gauss: Anti-Everything weaker than a MEQ
I just want to fight tyranids, roll up with 2 ghost arks full, unload 10 troops each and rapid fire for 40 shots, then 10 more shots from the arks rapid firing each, so 60 shots total.... can weather down a horde army nicely with that
Cryage wrote:So I was thinking of immortal weapons while we're on the topic of this...
10 shots with the tesla , assault 1 weapon you MAY roll 2 6's which result in 14 potential wounds.
With their gauss weapons, if you are in 12" and rapid fire, thats 20 shots and 20 potential wounds... Why choose the tesla? (unless I'm missing something).
Some things to know. Either by design or coincidence, a Tesla weapon has an expected number of hits equal to the number of shots it fires. (Unless it's TL, or higher BS) (Consider 6 tesla shots, on average, 4 hit, and one of them is a 6, so 6 total hits)
With rapid fire Gauss guns, (and pretty much everything else) The expected hits are 2/3 the number of shots.
Now consider a unit of 10 immortals
Situation: Immortals are 30 inches away from target. Tesla Immortals move 6 inches, fire their guns, and get 10 hits Gauss sit on their metal hands.
Situation: Immortals 20 inches away from target. Teslas back up 4 inches, fire, get 10 hits. Gauss stay still, fire single shots, get 6.66 hits
Situation: Immortals 15 inches away from target Teslas back up 6 inches, fire, get 10 hits Gauss choose between moving up 3 inches, Firing 20 shots, 13.33 hits, get assaulted by whats left next turn, or, Stay still, get 6.66 hits, and likely safe from assaults for another turn.
Situation: Immortals 10 inches away from target Teslas back up 6 inches, fire, get 10 hits Gauss choose between backing up 6 inches, not firing, but not getting assaulted, or, Rapid firing for 13.33 hits, and getting assaulted by whats left.
If you are simply going by average number of hits, Blasters can get the highest average amount, while within 12 inches. (Though, could be dangerously close) If you want the most consistent average number of hits, then the Carbines beat out. If you want the highest potential number of hits, then the Carbines could get up to 30 hits.
It really comes down to the AP value for me. If I was going to be facing MEQ's all day every day, then I'd take the carbines hands down. Goes the same for playing on tables with a ton of cover. If I was going to be fighting xeno's all day every day, then I'd probably take the blasters.
Given that I fight a mix, but mostly opponents that want to punch my dudes in the face in cc, I think I'll be fielding the carbines, for the mobility.
Cryage wrote:I just want to fight tyranids, roll up with 2 ghost arks full, unload 10 troops each and rapid fire for 40 shots, then 10 more shots from the arks rapid firing each, so 60 shots total.... can weather down a horde army nicely with that
The Ark is open-topped, so parking a full Ark on an objective and taking single shots at anyone trying to close in is quite handy, the AV13 should last if you are keeping them distracted with barges and what not also
The Decapitator wrote:There's apparently another C'tan, Nyadra'zatha 'The Burning One' who led the Necrons through Dolmen Gates to attack the Old Ones on their home turf
Im about to start a 6 week wargaming league and my first opponent wants to face me on saturday.
my local black shirt better give me my preorders on friday. I know its not the "date" but they only get shipments friday, and you in no way can convince me that they will have two shipments. Hell, the tracking even says friday.
BarBoBot wrote:If the 6th edition rapid fire rumors are true then rapid for will get 2 shots at max range if stationary and 1 shot at max if moving. 2 at 12 anytime.
What would that mathhammer out to compared to the tesla?
Higher wounds with lack of mobility, or mobility with slightly fewer wounds.
Bylak wrote:I'm hoping that my plan of three ghost arcs w/warriors and one monolith to port in Immortals remains a viable one . . . can't wait to see the dex! >.<
^ arks
This is gonna bug me for the 6 months Necrons are popular.
I got a look of the codex today at my flgs, sadly I could not convince them to sell me anything before the 5th.
I don't know if this has been posted about the triach stalker thingy, but from the picture of it, I highly considered buying some tyranid fexxes or Trygons for their claw thingys and then scrap build on with a bit of maybe a command barge.
Also the nightsytche, was clarified by my friend that I had to paint it like a nightgoblin moon, yellow and stuff. What I however was wondering was why it isn't opentopped, as there from the artwork is a driver out in the open, I'm gonna get dem greenstuff flight goggles on him for sure.
Man, I still can't get that crazy Warrior horde idea out of my head, a huge mass of silver robots, marching forwards, without mercy, without a single word...I just fear that it's not viable at all since Immortals simply appear to be better overall for only about +50% of a warrior's cost. Sure, the warriors will get a ride and I will at least get one squad of 10 immortals in just for the looks, but since I play against MEQ (almost exclusively) I just fear simply being overrun as my Gauss can't hurt them. One MEQ players field two Dreadnoughts, thus Gauss would be nice again...but for the rest...especially against Terminators...seeing that we start at 1000 points...sigh. Guess I'll just get my codex on Saturday and then wait until Christmas when the first seemingly competitive lists come in and people have played enough games for a first verdict.
Anrakyr at a rumoured 165 pts is a steal, if he comes with a Warscythe and Tachyon Arrow built into his cost. Place him on a Command Barge, strike at a Tank A 3 times with the 2d6 Warscythe, then take over firing control from Tank B with his hacking skills and get it to shoot at Tank C. And if possible, then get him to shoot his Tachyon Arrow at Tank C if it's still working, then dismount from the Command Barge and assault Tank B with the Warscythe, striking 3 or 4 times at 2d6. This guy on a Command Barge has the potential to be a monster.
I am sad that he only takes over the firing control of a vehicle, but I do understand why it's restricted. Imagine:
"Anrakyr is now taking over control of your Land Raider Redeemer, uh, the one with the squad of TH/SS Termies inside. ...And now Anrakyr has just driven your Land Raider off the side of the table."
azazel the cat wrote:Anrakyr at a rumoured 165 pts is a steal, if he comes with a Warscythe and Tachyon Arrow built into his cost. Place him on a Command Barge, strike at a Tank A 3 times with the 2d6 Warscythe, then take over firing control from Tank B with his hacking skills and get it to shoot at Tank C. And if possible, then get him to shoot his Tachyon Arrow at Tank C if it's still working, then dismount from the Command Barge and assault Tank B with the Warscythe, striking 3 or 4 times at 2d6. This guy on a Command Barge has the potential to be a monster.
I am sad that he only takes over the firing control of a vehicle, but I do understand why it's restricted. Imagine:
"Anrakyr is now taking over control of your Land Raider Redeemer, uh, the one with the squad of TH/SS Termies inside. ...And now Anrakyr has just driven your Land Raider off the side of the table."
Yeah, I'm really considering taking him now. All I need to figure out now, is how much my Combat lord is going to cost me. Looks like I may end up spending nearly a 1/4th of my points in the HQ slot alone, at this rate. Granted our HQ's can do just about anything.
Cryage wrote:
True enough I guess you can try and kite a swarm as much as possible, unless you're fighting hormagants which can run 3d6... lol
No they can't.
"No" who can't what?
Immortal's can't kite Hormagants? Agree
Hormagants can't roll 3d6 to determine run distance? Read "bounding leap" on page 38. "When a unit runs, they roll THREE dice and use the highest to determine how far they move." (I meant 3d6 pick highest, I can see that I wasn't that clear before ).
BramGaunt just confirmed that monoliths have no deep strike protection, however one of the rumored 6th edition changed is that a deepstriking vehicle touching a unit counts as tank shocking them
Zachilles wrote:BramGaunt just confirmed that monoliths have no deep strike protection, however one of the rumored 6th edition changed is that a deepstriking vehicle touching a unit counts as tank shocking them
He also updated saying they're able to fire their ordnance the turn they deep strike - "Heavy" meaning it always counts as stationary for shooting purpose.
azazel the cat wrote:Anrakyr at a rumoured 165 pts is a steal, if he comes with a Warscythe and Tachyon Arrow built into his cost. Place him on a Command Barge, strike at a Tank A 3 times with the 2d6 Warscythe, then take over firing control from Tank B with his hacking skills and get it to shoot at Tank C. And if possible, then get him to shoot his Tachyon Arrow at Tank C if it's still working, then dismount from the Command Barge and assault Tank B with the Warscythe, striking 3 or 4 times at 2d6. This guy on a Command Barge has the potential to be a monster.
I am sad that he only takes over the firing control of a vehicle, but I do understand why it's restricted. Imagine:
"Anrakyr is now taking over control of your Land Raider Redeemer, uh, the one with the squad of TH/SS Termies inside. ...And now Anrakyr has just driven your Land Raider off the side of the table."
Yeah, I'm really considering taking him now. All I need to figure out now, is how much my Combat lord is going to cost me. Looks like I may end up spending nearly a 1/4th of my points in the HQ slot alone, at this rate. Granted our HQ's can do just about anything.
Depending on what your shopping list for overlords was again, Anrakyr could still be a steal. If you want a fairly barebones overlord (with the tachyon arrows you wanted) 1 lord with scythe/arrow would cost as much as a squad of 10 warriors. So, for the cost of a Trukk, you get Furious Charge, Counter-Attack, Vehicle Hacking, and a unit of immortals also gets Furious Charge and Counter Attack.
I'll have what the gentleman cackling maniacally is having.
Zachilles wrote:BramGaunt just confirmed that monoliths have no deep strike protection, however one of the rumored 6th edition changed is that a deepstriking vehicle touching a unit counts as tank shocking them
He also updated saying they're able to fire their ordnance the turn they deep strike - "Heavy" meaning it always counts as stationary for shooting purpose.
That. Is. Sick!
So wait...I can deepstrike anywhere I want and then immediately fire off my ordinance? Holy bananas.
Zachilles wrote:BramGaunt just confirmed that monoliths have no deep strike protection, however one of the rumored 6th edition changed is that a deepstriking vehicle touching a unit counts as tank shocking them
He also updated saying they're able to fire their ordnance the turn they deep strike - "Heavy" meaning it always counts as stationary for shooting purpose.
That. Is. Sick!
So wait...I can deepstrike anywhere I want and then immediately fire off my ordinance? Holy bananas.
If you don't mishap, yeah.
And if the 6th ed rumors pan out, you have the choice of Deepstriking outside of 18 inches from enemy models with no scatter, Or, Right on top of em and hope you don't scatter onto vehicles or terrain.
Oh, misread the part. Monoliths not having any Deepstrike protection is bad...and pretty stupid seeing that a single little infantry model can actually lead to a destroyed Monolith. I mean...really? A landing pod is heavier than a huge, floating pyramid? That's ridiculous.
Monolith doesn't get any protection from DS mishap. Plus if it's held in reserve it HAS to be deployed by DS.
Also as I stated earlier, Anrakyr cannot move opponents tanks, only shot their weapons in the direction the model is already facing. As it doesn't state otherwise I would assume that turret mounted weapons can still turn towards a target.
What I want to know is the basic cost of an Overlord with nothing on him in the way of upgrades? is he 100 points like the basic lord of 3rd edition? Is he more? Is he less? Based solely on the result will either make Anrykyr the clear #1 choice for myself, or make him a very close call for #1. If a warscythe upgrade is 10 pts and the tachyon arrow is 30 pts, the basic overlord needs to be less than 125 pts un-kitted out to even worth looking at. Obviously the overlord will be less, right?
GiantSlingshot wrote:And if the 6th ed rumors pan out, you have the choice of Deepstriking outside of 18 inches from enemy models with no scatter, Or, Right on top of em and hope you don't scatter onto vehicles or terrain.
IG Blob squad, here I come! It would be very interesting if you're able to Ram on a deep strike with tanks in 6e if this rumor pans out. Assume you've moved max Cruising Speed (12") and resolve normally. Ouch!
I don't know personally but other people have said that an unupgraded overlord costs the same points as a space marine captain....which is the same points cost a lord in the 3rd ed codex costs.....which is 100 points.
FalkorsRaiders wrote:What I want to know is the basic cost of an Overlord with nothing on him in the way of upgrades? is he 100 points like the basic lord of 3rd edition? Is he more? Is he less? Based solely on the result will either make Anrykyr the clear #1 choice for myself, or make him a very close call for #1. If a warscythe upgrade is 10 pts and the tachyon arrow is 30 pts, the basic overlord needs to be less than 125 pts un-kitted out to even worth looking at. Obviously the overlord will be less, right?
Think Annie B. And, since there is really no reason to kit one out without a scythe, looking at nightscythe land. And if you must have that sweet 2+ armor, looking at ghost ark land.
FalkorsRaiders wrote:What I want to know is the basic cost of an Overlord with nothing on him in the way of upgrades? is he 100 points like the basic lord of 3rd edition? Is he more? Is he less? Based solely on the result will either make Anrykyr the clear #1 choice for myself, or make him a very close call for #1. If a warscythe upgrade is 10 pts and the tachyon arrow is 30 pts, the basic overlord needs to be less than 125 pts un-kitted out to even worth looking at. Obviously the overlord will be less, right?
Think Annie B. And, since there is really no reason to kit one out without a scythe, looking at nightscythe land. And if you must have that sweet 2+ armor, looking at ghost ark land.
I really, REALLLLY wish i had my codex by now...these last couple days are killing me!
Right now, Azrakyr seems like an awesome HQ choice. Tachyon Arrow, Warscythe, his hacking ability, a few good special rules and his rather gimmick-ish Immortal-buff ability all for 60 points less than the Stormlord?
The Decapitator wrote:An overlord as basic with default wargear Staff of Light is the same as a standard 5 man SMTac Squad.
So 120 for the Overlord with the scythe and arrow. If i believe the ccb is 90 pts, thats 210 for the set, less than the stormlord and maybe even more effective?
Gonna make my 
k .
, except for leadership tests which always seem to come back 
. Still, with 3 attempts, I should be able to make 1 of them work I suppose!