Right now, Azrakyr seems like an awesome HQ choice. Tachyon Arrow, Warscythe, his hacking ability, a few good special rules and his rather gimmick-ish Immortal-buff ability all for 60 points less than the Stormlord?
Get in that Command Barge!
Also...25% of my points going into HQ? Hell yeah.
I know some space wolf army builds that use more than 50% of their points in uber-hq awesomeness. Why can't we do the same with our new bells and whistles? Go wild!
Considering I imagine the people above have the codex in their hands already, things just keep sounding better and better! I'm actually really excited just to have a codex filled with options.
The command barge will be easily worth it's cost. I can imagine that they will quickly become priority number 1 targets, so we will see how they deal with this in the long run.
Necrons sound like they could take the top spot for mid tier armies, what do others think?
Monolith is still sounding like an excellent option which makes me happy as I have 3 of them, I was actively collecting old necrons from jaded players over the past few years though
Right now, Azrakyr seems like an awesome HQ choice. Tachyon Arrow, Warscythe, his hacking ability, a few good special rules and his rather gimmick-ish Immortal-buff ability all for 60 points less than the Stormlord?
Get in that Command Barge!
Also...25% of my points going into HQ? Hell yeah.
I think you will find that the necrons biggest weakness is the hq slot. Not because they are weak, but because all the best stuff is in it and you will just end up pouring points into it without regard. Every time I try to make a list in the past week based solely off rumors and some of my own estimates, the minimum HQ points, including royal court, was 350 points. The most maxed out at 600+ with a large royal court. Keep in mind the monolith costs 200 points and the doomsday ark goes for 175 as well as a squad of 6 un-kitted out wraiths go at 240 points, or 5 lychguards with shields at 225.
A kitted out royal court has multiple uses, though - you can leave it all together as an uber deathstar unit, or split up the crypteks/lords into your troops and elites and give a bit of punch/survival power to each of your squads on the table.
Hmmm totally forgot about the Court...but then again, I don't plan to spend that many point on my Court in <1500 points games.
The thing is that e.g. Azrakyr is a superb vehicle hunter that works better than a lot of regular troops could and the Command Barge is a real bargain for its value.
tetrisphreak wrote:Whoa, whoa, whoa, Bramgaunt on warseer just dropped a bomb (probably a quick typo):
Tachyon Arrow - s10 ap1 large blast
wtf? totally worth 30 points if that is true.
That's been known for a while. it is also a one time use item. If you looked at Anrakyr's bit on the opening post it has the info on the tachyon arrow
Edit: It's under his rules because that's how big of a boss he is and it has nothing to do with there being so few rules that kroothawk felt bad for him, not it being a random reason. (i hope)
tetrisphreak wrote:Whoa, whoa, whoa, Bramgaunt on warseer just dropped a bomb (probably a quick typo):
Tachyon Arrow - s10 ap1 large blast
wtf? totally worth 30 points if that is true.
That's been known for a while. it is also a one time use item. If you looked at Anrakyr's bit on the opening post it has the info on the tachyon arrow
Edit: It's under his rules because that's how big of a boss he is and it has nothing to do with there being so few rules that kroothawk felt bad for him, not it being a random reason. (i hope)
From my read through today I don't remember it being blast. Just a single fire, just like the hunter killer missile.
I was just oblivious to the fact that it was a large blast - everybody has been talking about it like it's a direct shot. in addition to tank fragging it can take out a squad of thunderwolves or nob bikerz instead....
Automatically Appended Next Post: Alright bram just corrected himself. Not a blast weapon. Still an awesome one by my measure however.
That just can't be, S10 Ap1 large blast?!? Necrons are going to finally be feared again. I always did better than average with my wraith wing, though a lot of players always necron opponents as easy. Can't wait to start dropping templates and death rays into all those space wolf and grey knight players.
Holy mother of the robot gods. If you roll unlucky, it might scatter, yet...geeez, people, Large Blast? Unlimited range? S10 AP1? Wow, I can already hear my fellow MEQ players crying over their smoking wrecks =)
/e: Just saw tetris' post. Well, that would have been TOO awesome. Still a very good item to have around.
Not large blast, S10, assault 1 (one shot) but has an infinite range.
The Triarch Stalker is S7 which is nice, 3 attacks base. The heat ray has 2 modes of fire, Focussed: 24" S8 AP1 Heavy 2, Melta or Dispersed: Template S5 AP4 Heavy 1.
Plus the targeting relay thingy, 150 base in Elites slot.
Hey, Decapitator, how is the triarch stalker targeting relay worded? If it fires it's particle weapon (the large blast one) and hits multiple units, do they all get painted with the targeting relay as well?
The Decapitator wrote:An overlord as basic with default wargear Staff of Light is the same as a standard 5 man SMTac Squad.
So 120 for the Overlord with the scythe and arrow. If i believe the ccb is 90 pts, thats 210 for the set, less than the stormlord and maybe even more effective?
You arrived at the right number, but the wrong way. The Barge is 10 points cheaper, the Lord is 10 points heavier.
It does seem to be very easy to spend a giant amount of points on your HQ slot, but if you've got a Royal Court and split them up to lead other units, it's more realistic to add their cost to the cost of the unit, not your HQ. That might deflate the HQ chunk a bit.
Cryage wrote:So my fedex delivery says:
"Nov 3, 2011 by 12:00 PM"
and I'm having it shipped to the store, they likely won't give it to me till saturday, will they? :(
Multiple sources have said there's no street date for the nov. 5th release, so there's a good chance that your store will sell it as soon as it's in stock.
I'm crossing my fingers that i'll get my hands on all my new toys tomorrow evening.
The Decapitator wrote:Monolith doesn't get any protection from DS mishap. Plus if it's held in reserve it HAS to be deployed by DS.
Well, Monoliths are almost unplayable until 6th Ed. gets here. And even then...
Due to its size, DS mishap is just way too likely to ever attempt a Deep Strike with a Monolith now. And even with the rumoured 6th Ed. DS rules, given that the meta-game is filled with MSU armies, when will you ever be able to safely Deep Strike the Monolith 18" away from any enemy unit without actually putting the Monolith so far away that you may as well have not even bothered at all?
The only way the Monolith will be useful as anything but an anchor will be if the Heavy rule changes to protect it from DS Mishaps, at least as far as enemy units are concerned.
Okay, saw the part with the large blast, was about to comment an apology, then saw that bram changed and decided to still give an apology. Sorry man, I was being a dick. On to something fun. Did some mathhammering during some not-supposed-to-be-free-time free-time and came up with some stats for the warscythe roll for armor pen. I was bored and feel like I'd rather post the work that isn't needed then leave it be. With the warscythe being 2d6 armor pen and +2str:
Against AV 10:
Fail: Double ones (1/36 or .028)
Glance: A combination of a one and a two (2/36 or .056)
Pen: Any other combination (33/36 or .917)
Against AV 11:
Fail: [1,1] [1,2] [2,1] (3/36 or .083)
Glance: [1,3] [3,1] [2,2] (3/36 or .083)
Pen: Any other combination (30/36 or .833)
Against AV 12:
Fail: [1,1] [1,2] [1,3] [2,1] [3,1] [2,2] (6/36 or .167)
Glance: [1,4] [2,3] [3,2] [4,1] (4/36 or .111)
Pen: Any other combination (26/36 or .722)
Against AV 13:
Fail: [1,1] [1,2] [1,3] [1,4] [2,1] [2,2] [2,3] [3,1] [3,2] [4,1] (10/36 or .278)
Glance: [1,5] [2,4] [3,3] [4,2] [5,1] (5/36 or .139)
Pen: Any other combination (21/36 or .583)
Against AV 14:
Fail: [1,1] [1,2] [1,3] [1,4] [1,5] [2,1] [2,2] [2,3] [2,4] [3,1] [3,2] [3,3] [4,1] [4,2] [5,1] (15/36 or .417)
Glance: [1,6] [2,5] [3,4] [4,3] [5,2] [6,1] (6/36 or .167)
Pen: Any other combination (15/36 or .417)
except against av 14, basically against monoliths or land raiders (i may have missed like 1 vehicle), the lord has over 50% chance of penetrating a vehicle with the scythe, since a lot of vehicles have rear armor 10, the drive by ccb sweep will penetrate over 9 times out of 10, and you get three attacks to do this.
Targeting Relay: If a Triarch Stalker shoots at an enemy unit and manages at least 1 hit, place a counter or coin next to the target. All other friendly units that shoot at the same target later in the same shooting phase count their weapons as twin-linked.
The Decapitator wrote:An overlord as basic with default wargear Staff of Light is the same as a standard 5 man SMTac Squad.
So 120 for the Overlord with the scythe and arrow. If i believe the ccb is 90 pts, thats 210 for the set, less than the stormlord and maybe even more effective?
You arrived at the right number, but the wrong way. The Barge is 10 points cheaper, the Lord is 10 points heavier.
Of course I'd mess up, but now I know, and knowing is half the battle. G.I. Joe!
Cryage wrote:So my fedex delivery says:
"Nov 3, 2011 by 12:00 PM"
and I'm having it shipped to the store, they likely won't give it to me till saturday, will they? :(
Multiple sources have said there's no street date for the nov. 5th release, so there's a good chance that your store will sell it as soon as it's in stock.
I'm crossing my fingers that i'll get my hands on all my new toys tomorrow evening.
I have not found any source, fully trustworthy enough to say it. Otherwise I might have had my stuff already
Cryage wrote:So my fedex delivery says:
"Nov 3, 2011 by 12:00 PM"
and I'm having it shipped to the store, they likely won't give it to me till saturday, will they? :(
Multiple sources have said there's no street date for the nov. 5th release, so there's a good chance that your store will sell it as soon as it's in stock.
I'm crossing my fingers that i'll get my hands on all my new toys tomorrow evening.
I have not found any source, fully trustworthy enough to say it. Otherwise I might have had my stuff already
There is a street date of Nov 5. It is on the web site. Look at Armies -> Necrons -> Army Essentials -> Codex -> "available for pre-order" -> "pre-order details" -> Nov 5th
The Decapitator wrote:Targeting Relay: If a Triarch Stalker shoots at an enemy unit and manages at least 1 hit, place a counter or coin next to the target. All other friendly units that shoot at the same target later in the same shooting phase count their weapons as twin-linked.
I wonder if anrakyr's ability to control an enemy vehicle for shooting allows it to be considered a "friendly unit" for the short time you control it? I doubt it is, but I would laugh so hard when I take stuff over and have it twin-linked. "I rolled a 1 to shoot? let's try that again."
The Decapitator wrote:Targeting Relay: If a Triarch Stalker shoots at an enemy unit and manages at least 1 hit, place a counter or coin next to the target. All other friendly units that shoot at the same target later in the same shooting phase count their weapons as twin-linked.
Sounds like if the stalker fires the particle weapon upgrade and hits more than one unit with the blast, you can get possible twin linkage on multiple units.
The Decapitator wrote:Targeting Relay: If a Triarch Stalker shoots at an enemy unit and manages at least 1 hit, place a counter or coin next to the target. All other friendly units that shoot at the same target later in the same shooting phase count their weapons as twin-linked.
I wonder if anrakyr's ability to control an enemy vehicle for shooting allows it to be considered a "friendly unit" for the short time you control it? I doubt it is, but I would laugh so hard when I take stuff over and have it twin-linked. "I rolled a 1 to shoot? let's try that again."
If the rule is written as "Anrakyr can fire the enemy tank's weapon", then it should work, as Anrakyr is doing the shooting. Didn't the fluff even say that he takes over the targeting and guidance systems?
The Decapitator wrote:Targeting Relay: If a Triarch Stalker shoots at an enemy unit and manages at least 1 hit, place a counter or coin next to the target. All other friendly units that shoot at the same target later in the same shooting phase count their weapons as twin-linked.
I wonder if anrakyr's ability to control an enemy vehicle for shooting allows it to be considered a "friendly unit" for the short time you control it? I doubt it is, but I would laugh so hard when I take stuff over and have it twin-linked. "I rolled a 1 to shoot? let's try that again."
Sorry to be a downer, but Anrakyr's ability is at the start of the shooting phase, so, before the stalker can even shoot.
The Decapitator wrote:Targeting Relay: If a Triarch Stalker shoots at an enemy unit and manages at least 1 hit, place a counter or coin next to the target. All other friendly units that shoot at the same target later in the same shooting phase count their weapons as twin-linked.
I wonder if anrakyr's ability to control an enemy vehicle for shooting allows it to be considered a "friendly unit" for the short time you control it? I doubt it is, but I would laugh so hard when I take stuff over and have it twin-linked. "I rolled a 1 to shoot? let's try that again."
Sorry to be a downer, but Anrakyr's ability is at the start of the shooting phase, so, before the stalker can even shoot.
No worries. It just means I won't be laughing about shooting with my enemies vehicle and being twin-linked, just when shooting with my enemies vehicle.
The Decapitator wrote:Targeting Relay: If a Triarch Stalker shoots at an enemy unit and manages at least 1 hit, place a counter or coin next to the target. All other friendly units that shoot at the same target later in the same shooting phase count their weapons as twin-linked.
I wonder if anrakyr's ability to control an enemy vehicle for shooting allows it to be considered a "friendly unit" for the short time you control it? I doubt it is, but I would laugh so hard when I take stuff over and have it twin-linked. "I rolled a 1 to shoot? let's try that again."
Sorry to be a downer, but Anrakyr's ability is at the start of the shooting phase, so, before the stalker can even shoot.
No worries. It just means I won't be laughing about shooting with my enemies vehicle and being twin-linked, just when shooting with my enemies vehicle.
Especially if the enemy's vehicle has twin-linked weapons anyway (storm raven, land raider, etc)
Now it makes me wonder would a weapon under certain effects of his army (Vulkan and his twin linking for example) share that same benefit when you use it AND imagine the hilarity if you force a vehicle to shoot a flame based weapon when a C'tan with Lord of Fire is within range.
"Yes, I'm going to make you blow yourself up. Deal with it!"
So, My local 40k buddies are all sorta satisfied with 1000 points for our armies for the time being. This is right now seeming PAINFULLY scarce on points given all the wonderful options that will be available to us.
I know I should try to bump them to 1500, if I want to play this army to anywhere towards full effect, and I will try. However, they won't get 500 more points of stuff overnight.
So, open question. Given our shaky picture of points costs and rules, what units do you think most deserve a place in a low point game?
I am gonna make a whole list based on Imotekh, Immortals and Flayed ones. Basically the best CC guys I can get and Warriors in the Ghost Arks lists.
Than Annihilation Arks to blow appart any possible ork or Tyranid army that comes near me. No Nid or Ork army could possibly survive a good round or two of shots against them AND getting too close to necron shooting phase + thunderstorms from the Imotekh.
At least so goes my theory based on the good things I read.
So a night shroud that I can disperse when I really super need too that shuts down I.G, Tau, Shooting Marines, and enough powerful cc to take down my enemies Troops and stall their hard hitters while mine takes em out on a Solar Pulse turn?!
Kurgash wrote:Now it makes me wonder would a weapon under certain effects of his army (Vulkan and his twin linking for example) share that same benefit when you use it AND imagine the hilarity if you force a vehicle to shoot a flame based weapon when a C'tan with Lord of Fire is within range.
"Yes, I'm going to make you blow yourself up. Deal with it!"
Anrakyr just gets better and better. Now he just needs a decent model and I will refuse to play any other named lord.
Khornatedemon wrote:azrakyr can potentially drop 3 tanks a turn. Thats makes me smile
Possibly 4... Drive by scythe one, disembark by a land raider, hack said land raider, use one tl lascannon to take out tank 3, machine spirit fire other tl lascannon into another tank.
Assuming people still use the standard raider that is
FalkorsRaiders wrote:With the warscythe being 2d6 armor pen and +2str:
I'm not sure Warscythes really do +2D6 armor pen:
Games Workshop wrote:Mat Ward from Games Development says:
NECRON LYCHGUARD
Lychguard are close combat heavies, and excel as bodyguards for your Overlord, or shock troops fit to sweep the foe aside. If you're expecting heavy firepower, make sure your Lychguard are upgraded with dispersion shields - not only do these provide a 4+ invulnerable save, they can also rebound hits onto nearby enemies. Otherwise, stick with the mighty warscythe - Strength 7 attacks with no armour saves makes quick work of anything short of a Land Raider.
Why would Mat Ward have said that if they could pen a Land Raider?
Take a royal court full of tachyon arrows. Split them into different units. Take multiple triarch stalkers. In turn one use the triarch to twin link multiple targets. If the targets are not destroyed by the Stalkers, use the Tachyon Arrows on the targets that are now twin linked.
By seperating the court you can shoot one at a time and as targets blow up you can move on to the next twin linked item to shoot.
Would be a very effective first turn maneuver., but pricey, but yet again, effective. Like having several hammerheads that are twin linked...
Sorry, Decap dropped a bit of a bombshell saying that Anrakyr could only fire 1 of the hacked vehicles weapons, or at least that's what I think he said.
Automatically Appended Next Post: looking back, it's a bit ambiguous that that was what Decap was referring to.
Either way, I would be most appreciative if someone with the codex could give the wording used in to power.
GiantSlingshot wrote:Sorry, Decap dropped a bit of a bombshell saying that Anrakyr could only fire 1 of the hacked vehicles weapons, or at least that's what I think he said.
Automatically Appended Next Post: looking back, it's a bit ambiguous that that was what Decap was referring to.
Doesn't say anything about only 1. Says you can fire as if you haven't moved and ignore shaken and stunned. Looks like you can unload everything.
GiantSlingshot wrote:Sorry, Decap dropped a bit of a bombshell saying that Anrakyr could only fire 1 of the hacked vehicles weapons, or at least that's what I think he said.
Automatically Appended Next Post: looking back, it's a bit ambiguous that that was what Decap was referring to.
Doesn't say anything about only 1. Says you can fire as if you haven't moved and ignore shaken and stunned. Looks like you can unload everything.
GiantSlingshot wrote:Sorry, Decap dropped a bit of a bombshell saying that Anrakyr could only fire 1 of the hacked vehicles weapons, or at least that's what I think he said.
Automatically Appended Next Post: looking back, it's a bit ambiguous that that was what Decap was referring to.
Doesn't say anything about only 1. Says you can fire as if you haven't moved and ignore shaken and stunned. Looks like you can unload everything.
Thanks. And it requires Line of Sight, I presume?
Otherwise there are some truly awful things that can be done to a parking lot with a supersonic nightscythe.
FalkorsRaiders wrote:With the warscythe being 2d6 armor pen and +2str:
I'm not sure Warscythes really do +2D6 armor pen:
Games Workshop wrote:Mat Ward from Games Development says:
NECRON LYCHGUARD
Lychguard are close combat heavies, and excel as bodyguards for your Overlord, or shock troops fit to sweep the foe aside. If you're expecting heavy firepower, make sure your Lychguard are upgraded with dispersion shields - not only do these provide a 4+ invulnerable save, they can also rebound hits onto nearby enemies. Otherwise, stick with the mighty warscythe - Strength 7 attacks with no armour saves makes quick work of anything short of a Land Raider.
Why would Mat Ward have said that if they could pen a Land Raider?
My theory is that Matt Ward doesn't understand some of the 40k rules. Consider what he said about the Monolith:
"The Monolith has long been a much-feared opponent, and now it's deadlier than ever. Whilst it's tempting to deploy the Monolith at the start of the game, it's almost always wiser to keep it in reserve - that way you can Deep Strike it onto an enemy-held objective. Once the Monolith has scoured the foe from the immediate area (try and eliminate melta weapons first - they can be a real problem) you can then use its eternity gate to teleport in a suitable scoring unit and take the objective for yourself. When the enemy counter attacks, simply switch the eternity gate into its portal of exile mode, and suck the primitives to their doom!"
He is advocating Deep Striking a 6" x 6" mech with no protection from mishaps onto an enemy-held objective, knowing that the enemy will have units within 3" of said objective.
GiantSlingshot wrote:Sorry, Decap dropped a bit of a bombshell saying that Anrakyr could only fire 1 of the hacked vehicles weapons, or at least that's what I think he said.
Automatically Appended Next Post: looking back, it's a bit ambiguous that that was what Decap was referring to.
Doesn't say anything about only 1. Says you can fire as if you haven't moved and ignore shaken and stunned. Looks like you can unload everything.
Thanks. And it requires Line of Sight, I presume?
Otherwise there are some truly awful things that can be done to a parking lot with a supersonic nightscythe.
GiantSlingshot wrote:Sorry, Decap dropped a bit of a bombshell saying that Anrakyr could only fire 1 of the hacked vehicles weapons, or at least that's what I think he said.
Automatically Appended Next Post: looking back, it's a bit ambiguous that that was what Decap was referring to.
Doesn't say anything about only 1. Says you can fire as if you haven't moved and ignore shaken and stunned. Looks like you can unload everything.
Thanks. And it requires Line of Sight, I presume?
Otherwise there are some truly awful things that can be done to a parking lot with a supersonic nightscythe.
18" LOS.
All mech weapons, eh? That's all I was waiting to hear. I liked the sound of Anrakyr back around page 8-ish, and I think I've settled on the idea that Anrakyr is my HQ choice. Now, to being the process of converting something into an Anrakyr until the mythical Second Wave arrives.
I kinda like the idea of adding a Doctor Who bow-tie to whatever model I use.
Is entropic strike an upgrade for Scarabs, or do they come with it?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
chaos0xomega wrote:funny how that has changed from the Stormlord build to the Arnaykr build virtually overnight.
Right, and might change again still when someone gets him out 18" away from a Land Raider, fails to take it over, then gets mauled by TH/SS Termies. Guess we'll be seeing some playful facing in the movement phases of opponents. Also, wonder if his build will move the meta away from Razorbacks and Heavy support/Fast attack tanks into simple transports like Rhinos, making him just another Overlord.
I see Trazyn (how ever it is spelled), having his own build, where you load every non-scoring squad with either a lord (For him to jump on), or himself. Great late game objective grab.
chaos0xomega wrote:funny how that has changed from the Stormlord build to the Arnaykr build virtually overnight.
It will change. It will end up being that 1 cryptek lord no one has talked about making a build for yet, Szeras. His optimal build will be 3 maxed squads of flayed ones. /sarcasm
I think Arnakyr is here to stay. The reason it switched was:
-Everyone can get the flashlights rather cheaply
-Solar pulses negate lightning strikes
-Stormlord doesn't have a warscythe that was rumored 2d6 armor pen
-Is he really worth 225 points just for nightfight?
-if nightfight is ever negated, stormlord power doesn't work
-looks at other lords for more viable/cost effective option
-tachyon arrows seem awesome
-warscythe confirmed at 2d6 armor pen
-Arkaryn has both arrow and scythe, plus a nifty ability.
-Arkaryn costs 165 point?
-Command Barge costs 80 points?
I may have left out 1 or 2 key moments, but that's basically what happened.
thenecronctanofdice wrote:I like the sound of the astrology cryptech but was wondering does he have a power weapon
Page 1:
Yakface wrote:Orikan the Diviner:
Orikan is the master 'astromancer' in the Necron race and is roughly equivalent to what Eldrad is to the Eldar (although I think Eldrad is superior to him in terms of future predictions).
Since Orikan knows so much about the future, he tends to treat other Necrons with scorn and disdain and this has made him less than popular and many would like to see him destroyed. Unfortunately, his skills are fare too useful for anyone to actually go through with that.
Unlike a Farseer, it seems as though his ability to predict the future is largely based on sheer calculations of even the smallest minutiae. However, unforeseen events, especially those based around the truly unpredictable nature of the warp can and do confound him. In order to maintain his reputation, he has access to some rare chronomantic abilities, which he uses to actually go backwards in time to change past events slightly to make sure his predictions actually come true.
Of course, every time he does this, naturally all sorts of other terrible unforeseen events also tend to occur based on what he changed in the past, but as long as his prediction came true, he cares little for any other destruction he causes.
Just as with Illuminor Szeras (the other 'Cryptek' named character) he has lesser stats than the Overlord style named characters. He does have a phase shifter though (3++ save).
His weapon is the 'staff of tomorrow' and its basically a staff that hits his opponents an instant before he actually swings it! That means he gets to re-roll 'to hit' and 'to wound' rolls, and it is a power weapon.
He has a special rule called 'Lord of Time' that allows him on one turn (and only one turn) to re-roll all unsuccessful reserve rolls that turn (unsuccessful rolls MUST be rerolled that turn, he doesn't get to choose).
He has another special rule that means all enemy units count as moving through difficult terrain on the first turn and if they are actually moving through difficult terrain then they have to choose the lowest die from the two they roll for difficult terrain. This obviously seems like a good ability to combine with the C'Tan manifestation that makes all difficult terrain count as dangerous!
The last ability he has is called 'The Stars are Right' and basically represents the fact that Orikan has predicted that at some time during the battle the stars will align and he will reclaim a portion of his ancient power (presumably from before when he was a Necontyr). He rolls a D6 at the start of each of his turns and if the die roll is less than or equal to the turn number then he has ascended to his 'empowered' state and gets a totally new statline that has S/T7, A/W4, etc...suspiciously similar to a C'Tan profile some would say.
Of course, you have to keep rolling at the start of each turn and if you ever roll less than or equal to the turn number again, his power recedes and he drops back down to his old statline (which could mean he instantly dies if he had already suffered more wounds than his 'lesser' profile has on it).
Points-wise, this guy is nowhere near as cheap as Illuminor Szeras, but compared to the rest of the named characters, he is still the cheapest.
Cannot take a Catacomb Command Barge or a Royal Court (as he isn't an Overlord).
thenecronctanofdice wrote:I like the sound of the astrology cryptech but was wondering does he have a power weapon
Page 1:
Yakface wrote:Orikan the Diviner:
Orikan is the master 'astromancer' in the Necron race and is roughly equivalent to what Eldrad is to the Eldar (although I think Eldrad is superior to him in terms of future predictions).
Since Orikan knows so much about the future, he tends to treat other Necrons with scorn and disdain and this has made him less than popular and many would like to see him destroyed. Unfortunately, his skills are fare too useful for anyone to actually go through with that.
Unlike a Farseer, it seems as though his ability to predict the future is largely based on sheer calculations of even the smallest minutiae. However, unforeseen events, especially those based around the truly unpredictable nature of the warp can and do confound him. In order to maintain his reputation, he has access to some rare chronomantic abilities, which he uses to actually go backwards in time to change past events slightly to make sure his predictions actually come true.
Of course, every time he does this, naturally all sorts of other terrible unforeseen events also tend to occur based on what he changed in the past, but as long as his prediction came true, he cares little for any other destruction he causes.
Just as with Illuminor Szeras (the other 'Cryptek' named character) he has lesser stats than the Overlord style named characters. He does have a phase shifter though (3++ save).
His weapon is the 'staff of tomorrow' and its basically a staff that hits his opponents an instant before he actually swings it! That means he gets to re-roll 'to hit' and 'to wound' rolls, and it is a power weapon.
He has a special rule called 'Lord of Time' that allows him on one turn (and only one turn) to re-roll all unsuccessful reserve rolls that turn (unsuccessful rolls MUST be rerolled that turn, he doesn't get to choose).
He has another special rule that means all enemy units count as moving through difficult terrain on the first turn and if they are actually moving through difficult terrain then they have to choose the lowest die from the two they roll for difficult terrain. This obviously seems like a good ability to combine with the C'Tan manifestation that makes all difficult terrain count as dangerous!
The last ability he has is called 'The Stars are Right' and basically represents the fact that Orikan has predicted that at some time during the battle the stars will align and he will reclaim a portion of his ancient power (presumably from before when he was a Necontyr). He rolls a D6 at the start of each of his turns and if the die roll is less than or equal to the turn number then he has ascended to his 'empowered' state and gets a totally new statline that has S/T7, A/W4, etc...suspiciously similar to a C'Tan profile some would say.
Of course, you have to keep rolling at the start of each turn and if you ever roll less than or equal to the turn number again, his power recedes and he drops back down to his old statline (which could mean he instantly dies if he had already suffered more wounds than his 'lesser' profile has on it).
Points-wise, this guy is nowhere near as cheap as Illuminor Szeras, but compared to the rest of the named characters, he is still the cheapest.
Cannot take a Catacomb Command Barge or a Royal Court (as he isn't an Overlord).
chaos0xomega wrote:funny how that has changed from the Stormlord build to the Arnaykr build virtually overnight.
It will change. It will end up being that 1 cryptek lord no one has talked about making a build for yet, Szeras. His optimal build will be 3 maxed squads of flayed ones. /sarcasm
I think Arnakyr is here to stay. The reason it switched was:
-Everyone can get the flashlights rather cheaply -Solar pulses negate lightning strikes -Stormlord doesn't have a warscythe that was rumored 2d6 armor pen -Is he really worth 225 points just for nightfight? -if nightfight is ever negated, stormlord power doesn't work -looks at other lords for more viable/cost effective option -tachyon arrows seem awesome -warscythe confirmed at 2d6 armor pen -Arkaryn has both arrow and scythe, plus a nifty ability. -Arkaryn costs 165 point? -Command Barge costs 80 points?
I may have left out 1 or 2 key moments, but that's basically what happened.
This.
I figured I'd find a lot of use for Anrakyr from the beginning, but the 2d6 Warscythe boost that Anrakyr carries closes this deal to me. I've already picked out a Warmachine Cryx Iron Lich Asphyxious model to convert into an Anrakyr.
And he won't get assaulted on a Command Barge. An 80 point Command Barge. For less than 250 points total, I get a Quantum-Shielded fast-moving unit that will crush 2-5 tanks per turn, and seriously make my friends debate fielding mech-heavy armies. With that kind of mayhem this guy can cause, I don't even care if he lives more than half the game or not. I figure he'll make his points back to me within a single turn, so far as wars of attrition go.
Baal Predators? Might as well not even field 'em. Land Raider Redeemer? Take it over, turn its flamers on nearby troops. Failed to take over the Land Raider? Disembark and assault it. 4 attacks on the charge against a Land Raider mean 2 will hit, and I only need 8 points across 2d6 to pen it.
Edit: Also, now I have an answer to Mephiston. I hate Mephiston. But now, I can just sweep across Meph, swing 3 times with that pretty little Warscythe. There's no invulnerable saves there, and even if (when) Meph destroys the Command Barge, Anrakyr is there to finish the job. So, losing a Command Barge to kill Meph? Hell yeah, I'll make that trade all day long.
I'm not sure I agree. There's a reason certain characters cost what they do. For instance, what I see in your post here:
azazel the cat wrote:
For less than 250 points total, I get a Quantum-Shielded fast-moving unit that will crush 2-5 tanks per turn
How do you know? It sounds like you've already got this planned out in your head. First of all, if you take a Command Barge, you'll need to move at least 12" the first turn to be a real Turn 2 threat. But, let's say you play an inexperienced player and they give you a vehicle you can take over at the front of their deployment. So, you move up 12", then you disembark so you can use his arrow/hacking power. First of all, those have to hit/go off. Second of all, you'd be taking over something with a forward facing. All you probably get is a turret that can swing around and do a little bit of damage. Then what? You -might- take out a tank with that. You -might- take out a tank with his arrow. So, if you hit those 2, then there's 2 possible tanks.
Then, he's stranded. He's sitting in the middle of the field staring an entire army down. So, let's not do that. Let's say he moves Flat Out turn 1 so that he can get some attacks from his CCB. Well, then he's not disembarking and he's not shooting. So he might pass over 1 tank from 24" away. Maybe. Then, he's in the enemy's frontfield with an entire army starting him down. Let's not do that either.
If possible (I don't know if he's an IC or not, I imagine he is), I would stick with him a unit of Lychguard. The alpha-strike is tempting, but I think you'd be throwing him away, especially if you miss any of the powers you're counting on.
But therein lies the rub - you want to alpha strike with him because anyone that knows he's on the board will try to take out his transport first and foremost. So, I don't think the situation is as easy as you're hoping. I could be wrong - I don't even have the codex yet and obviously haven't played against him. But when someone who seems awesome is only 165 pts., there's usually a reason why.
azazel the cat wrote:and seriously make my friends debate fielding mech-heavy armies.
I would love to play against him with Eldar. Str. 10 Tachyon Arrow? Mm, Str. 8 against Wave Serpents. Take over a vehicle? Sure, you can have a Wave Serpent with Scatter Lasers that need 6's to glance me. It also means you're within 18". I don't think he's the Parking Lot Destructor that everyone is imagining him to be.
azazel the cat wrote:Baal Predators? Might as well not even field 'em.
I'm not sure if you're just being hyperbolic for fun, so I won't really go into this much, but okay? You can take over one twin-linked Assault Cannon or one 8-inch template.
azazel the cat wrote:Land Raider Redeemer? Take it over, turn its flamers on nearby troops.
If there are any nearby troops. I don't usually huddle my troops around the Land Raiders because the Land Raider is moving faster. Remember, you can't change facing, so I have to be beside or directly in front for it to really matter.
azazel the cat wrote:Failed to take over the Land Raider? Disembark and assault it. 4 attacks on the charge against a Land Raider mean 2 will hit, and I only need 8 points across 2d6 to pen it.
So, 4 attacks needing a 4, then rolling an 8 on 2D6, when 7 is average. So, maybe 1 pen on average?
I know you're excited about him, but throw some realism and careful planning in there with him as well.
puma713 wrote:I'm not sure I agree. There's a reason certain characters cost what they do. For instance, what I see in your post here:
azazel the cat wrote:
For less than 250 points total, I get a Quantum-Shielded fast-moving unit that will crush 2-5 tanks per turn
How do you know? It sounds like you've already got this planned out in your head. First of all, if you take a Command Barge, you'll need to move at least 12" the first turn to be a real Turn 2 threat. But, let's say you play an inexperienced player and they give you a vehicle you can take over at the front of their deployment. So, you move up 12", then you disembark so you can use his arrow/hacking power. First of all, those have to hit/go off. Second of all, you'd be taking over something with a forward facing. All you probably get is a turret that can swing around and do a little bit of damage. Then what? You -might- take out a tank with that. You -might- take out a tank with his arrow. So, if you hit those 2, then there's 2 possible tanks.
Then, he's stranded. He's sitting in the middle of the field staring an entire army down. So, let's not do that. Let's say he moves Flat Out turn 1 so that he can get some attacks from his CCB. Well, then he's not disembarking and he's not shooting. So he might pass over 1 tank from 24" away. Maybe. Then, he's in the enemy's frontfield with an entire army starting him down. Let's not do that either.
Ost: It's fast and open-topped, correct? He doesn't need to disembark to fire the arrow, and gets to open up with a solid 24" move. Of course, he's likely going to get shot to pieces, but with QS and and a cover save, the odds aren't completely terrible, depending on the circumstances.
If possible (I don't know if he's an IC or not, I imagine he is), I would stick with him a unit of Lychguard. The alpha-strike is tempting, but I think you'd be throwing him away, especially if you miss any of the powers you're counting on.
But therein lies the rub - you want to alpha strike with him because anyone that knows he's on the board will try to take out his transport first and foremost. So, I don't think the situation is as easy as you're hoping. I could be wrong - I don't even have the codex yet and obviously haven't played against him. But when someone who seems awesome is only 165 pts., there's usually a reason why.
azazel the cat wrote:and seriously make my friends debate fielding mech-heavy armies.
I would love to play against him with Eldar. Str. 10 Tachyon Arrow? Mm, Str. 8 against Wave Serpents. Take over a vehicle? Sure, you can have a Wave Serpent with Scatter Lasers that need 6's to glance me. It also means you're within 18". I don't think he's the Parking Lot Destructor that everyone is imagining him to be.
azazel the cat wrote:Baal Predators? Might as well not even field 'em.
I'm not sure if you're just being hyperbolic for fun, so I won't really go into this much, but okay? You can take over one twin-linked Assault Cannon or one 8-inch template.
azazel the cat wrote:Land Raider Redeemer? Take it over, turn its flamers on nearby troops.
If there are any nearby troops. I don't usually huddle my troops around the Land Raiders because the Land Raider is moving faster. Remember, you can't change facing, so I have to be beside or directly in front for it to really matter.
Ost: Yeah, this whole "fire that vehicles weapons" will be interesting but nothing game-changing. The best use I can see for it involves popping some bloodstrike missles or other oneshots, but the only way I see that working is being extremely disingenuous to opponents re: your HQ's abilities.
azazel the cat wrote:Failed to take over the Land Raider? Disembark and assault it. 4 attacks on the charge against a Land Raider mean 2 will hit, and I only need 8 points across 2d6 to pen it.
If I run a Land Raider, I want to get it into the thick of things to disgorge its payload, then use PotMS to shoot whatever is in my way. So, 4 attacks needing a 4, then rolling an 8 on 2D6, when 7 is average. So, maybe 1 pen?
Ost: Yeah, using a command barge to intercept an LR is going to prove to be a futile effort. Where I believe it's going to shine is taking out walkers, parked transports, and eating away at Infantry.
I know you're excited about him, but throw some realism and careful planning in there with him as well.
Then, he's stranded. He's sitting in the middle of the field staring an entire army down. So, let's not do that. Let's say he moves Flat Out turn 1 so that he can get some attacks from his CCB. Well, then he's not disembarking and he's not shooting. So he might pass over 1 tank from 24" away. Maybe. Then, he's in the enemy's frontfield with an entire army starting him down. Let's not do that either.
Ost: It's fast and open-topped, correct? He doesn't need to disembark to fire the arrow, and gets to open up with a solid 24" move. Of course, he's likely going to get shot to pieces, but with QS and and a cover save, the odds aren't completely terrible, depending on the circumstances.
He will need to disembark if it moves 7"+. Being fast has nothing to do with the embarked troops firing at different speeds. And if he moves Flat Out, he's not shooting or disembarking. So, either way, he's opening himself up to a lot of fire, I think.
Also, does the CCB have that rule that if it is destroyed, the embarked unit goes into reserve? Or is that just the Ghost Ark? If that is the CCB as well, moving Flat Out is even more dangerous.
So could he take control of a vehicle and fire it's single use weaponry? Mindstrike missiles against GK (assuming the stormraven is faced correctly) but also... can he fire the Deathstrike missile?
IDK i still am planning on using the Stormlord w/ the Solar Pulse backup. Night fight for a few rounds dosnt hurt us with a short to mid range on most of our weapons.
We only have maybe 2 units with ranges long enough to matter.
Destroyers and that 1 Barge with the Big Cannon.
Everything else should be able to take the few shots that get through. And when they get in range open up using Solar Pulse for cover at least from their long range fire support.
I may even try to squeeze the Tremor staffs and Ct'an in there to slow them down more.
Besides Arnaykr needs to be visible and in danger to Pop AV, the Stormlord dosnt even have to be in LOS.
Yea he is a little random ... but he isnt running in front of an army praying he dosnt get blown up or assaulted.
puma713 wrote:Then, he's stranded. He's sitting in the middle of the field staring an entire army down. So, let's not do that. Let's say he moves Flat Out turn 1 so that he can get some attacks from his CCB. Well, then he's not disembarking and he's not shooting. So he might pass over 1 tank from 24" away. Maybe. Then, he's in the enemy's frontfield with an entire army starting him down.
I don't mean to criticize the way you play, but do you commonly move a single unit forward on Turn 1? Because that does appear to be the tactic you're talking about here. I was thinking more about advancing my army forward for a turn in a non-ridiculous fashion, then turning him loose once there are multiple targets in his range. When I said "he'll make his points back in one turn", did you interpret that as "turn one"?
puma713 wrote:I would love to play against him with Eldar. Str. 10 Tachyon Arrow? Mm, Str. 8 against Wave Serpents. Take over a vehicle? Sure, you can have a Wave Serpent with Scatter Lasers that need 6's to glance me. It also means you're within 18". I don't think he's the Parking Lot Destructor that everyone is imagining him to be.
Good thing I don't know anyone that plays Eldar, huh?
puma713 wrote:
azazel the cat wrote:Baal Predators? Might as well not even field 'em.
I'm not sure if you're just being hyperbolic for fun, so I won't really go into this much, but okay? You can take over one twin-linked Assault Cannon or one 8-inch template.
I do enjoy hyperbole, yes. However, I was referring to the Scout ability of the Baal Predators, and the fact that moving them ahead of the rest of the army just makes it easier to use the Command Barge to sweep over one with a Warscythe. I realize that I wasn't specific, but I'm starting to get the impression you're just being obstinate for fun.
puma713 wrote:
azazel the cat wrote:Land Raider Redeemer? Take it over, turn its flamers on nearby troops.
If there are any nearby troops. I don't usually huddle my troops around the Land Raiders because the Land Raider is moving faster. Remember, you can't change facing, so I have to be beside or directly in front for it to really matter.
This was just an example, but I would expect to see some units disembarked nearby if any other transports have been wrecked. Feel free to substitute "Land Raider" for anything else that suits your fancy.
puma713 wrote:
azazel the cat wrote:Failed to take over the Land Raider? Disembark and assault it. 4 attacks on the charge against a Land Raider mean 2 will hit, and I only need 8 points across 2d6 to pen it.
So, 4 attacks needing a 4, then rolling an 8 on 2D6, when 7 is average. So, maybe 1 pen on average?
1 pen and 1 glance. I'm good with that roll against AV 14. Why aren't you? What consistently does better?
puma713 wrote:I know you're excited about him, but throw some realism and careful planning in there with him as well.
...So your carefully-planned suggestion of moving him the maximum range forward all on his lonesome on the first turn would be a realistic? Thanks, but I think I'll stick with marching the rest of my army into position, and then unleashing Anrakyr once units start to engage. 165 points isn't cheap. I believe that's about what Typhus of Nurgle costs, and not too far below Coteaz.
Imperial Monkey wrote:I'm sorry, but no matter how cool the rules are, or how good the models. £20.50 is ****ing extortionate for 5 normal size models (ie. Not termies/larger models)!!! It is getting ridiculous...
Seriously, STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT THE PRICE!!! I live in AUSTRALIA for christ's sake - the immortals set is $55 over here - the equivalent of about 35 pounds over in England. Even America is about half our price.
Imperial Monkey wrote:I'm sorry, but no matter how cool the rules are, or how good the models. £20.50 is ****ing extortionate for 5 normal size models (ie. Not termies/larger models)!!! It is getting ridiculous...
Seriously, STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT THE PRICE!!! I live in AUSTRALIA for christ's sake - the immortals set is $55 over here - the equivalent of about 35 pounds over in England. Even America is about half our price.
Does anyone in Australia ever actually buy directly from GW? Seems like it'd be cheaper to just buy from 3rd party sellers and pay the shipping...
Imperial Monkey wrote:I'm sorry, but no matter how cool the rules are, or how good the models. £20.50 is ****ing extortionate for 5 normal size models (ie. Not termies/larger models)!!! It is getting ridiculous...
Seriously, STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT THE PRICE!!! I live in AUSTRALIA for christ's sake - the immortals set is $55 over here - the equivalent of about 35 pounds over in England. Even America is about half our price.
Does anyone in Australia ever actually buy directly from GW? Seems like it'd be cheaper to just buy from 3rd party sellers and pay the shipping...
well im not quite in australia, (new zealand) but it is cheaper for me to buy from a 3rd party and pay the shipping so i guess they would be in the same boat. i dont often buy direct from GW for this exact reason since i could buy 2 battleforces and a codex + shipping for the same price as i would pay for 1 battle force and a codex here
puma713 wrote:Then, he's stranded. He's sitting in the middle of the field staring an entire army down. So, let's not do that. Let's say he moves Flat Out turn 1 so that he can get some attacks from his CCB. Well, then he's not disembarking and he's not shooting. So he might pass over 1 tank from 24" away. Maybe. Then, he's in the enemy's frontfield with an entire army starting him down.
I don't mean to criticize the way you play, but do you commonly move a single unit forward on Turn 1? Because that does appear to be the tactic you're talking about here. I was thinking more about advancing my army forward for a turn in a non-ridiculous fashion, then turning him loose once there are multiple targets in his range. When I said "he'll make his points back in one turn", did you interpret that as "turn one"?
Actually, if you read my post, I suggested exactly that. To join him to the rest of the army. However, don't think for a second that your army isn't going to be whittled down. If you footslog him, you remove a lot of his threat. If you put him in a CCB, and you leave him with the rest of your army, then you've presented a great target and the CCB won't be around for long. If you're planning on him destroying 2-5 tanks, how are you going to do that marching into an IG parking lot?
For the record, you said "crush 2-5 tanks per turn", not me. "Per turn" counts turn 1.
My post must have offended you - but that wasn't my intent. I just think people are high on this character and are looking at him through rose-tinted glasses without having seen what the disadvantages of his range are.
Veiling with him could be interesting, though.
azazel the cat wrote:
puma713 wrote:
azazel the cat wrote:Baal Predators? Might as well not even field 'em.
I'm not sure if you're just being hyperbolic for fun, so I won't really go into this much, but okay? You can take over one twin-linked Assault Cannon or one 8-inch template.
I do enjoy hyperbole, yes. However, I was referring to the Scout ability of the Baal Predators, and the fact that moving them ahead of the rest of the army just makes it easier to use the Command Barge to sweep over one with a Warscythe. I realize that I wasn't specific, but I'm starting to get the impression you're just being obstinate for fun.
Did my evaluation of your favorite character in the book make you ? Why would someone Scout a vehicle into the threat range of the CCB? Unless you play people that do things like this.
azazel the cat wrote:
puma713 wrote:
azazel the cat wrote:Failed to take over the Land Raider? Disembark and assault it. 4 attacks on the charge against a Land Raider mean 2 will hit, and I only need 8 points across 2d6 to pen it.
So, 4 attacks needing a 4, then rolling an 8 on 2D6, when 7 is average. So, maybe 1 pen on average?
1 pen and 1 glance. I'm good with that roll against AV 14. Why aren't you? What consistently does better?
Str. 10 weaponry. Lances. Str. 9 Lances.
azazel the cat wrote:
puma713 wrote:I know you're excited about him, but throw some realism and careful planning in there with him as well.
...So your carefully-planned suggestion of moving him the maximum range forward all on his lonesome on the first turn would be a realistic?
So, you focused on the disadvantages of the CCB and not where I clearly posted that I would put him with a unit of Lychguard? Selective reading much?
azazel the cat wrote:165 points isn't cheap. I believe that's about what Typhus of Nurgle costs, and not too far below Coteaz.
Eldrad is 210. Mephiston is 250, Dante 225, Lysander 225?, Vect 185, Swarmlord 280?, Yarrick 185, Logan 200+, Ragnar 185?,
You could build a 165 pt Librarian in a marine codex, easily. I'm sorry my post got you butt-hurt. Good luck with him.
For those who have the codex and are reading the fluff, does anything jump out as another moment of total rage ala Grey Knights sacrificing Sisters of Battle for protection wards or the Blood Angel/Necron team up?
Kurgash wrote:For those who have the codex and are reading the fluff, does anything jump out as another moment of total rage ala Grey Knights sacrificing Sisters of Battle for protection wards or the Blood Angel/Necron team up?
Hell, I can answer that!
Well, first off let me preface things by saying that I didn't mind the Blood Angel/Necron team-up before the change in Necron fluff, and now that it has happened that 'moment' isn't even remotely ridiculous anymore.
And I also never had an issue with the Grey Knights slaughtering Sisters to banish some Daemons. I think the 'rage' from that really comes more from people's own ideas of what they think the Grey Knights should be rather than the actual fluff that describes them as willing to go to literally ANY MEANS to kill Daemons.
But back to the new Necron codex. I think the thing that will illicit the biggest negative reaction will probably just be how the Necrons talk amongst themselves and deal with alien species. The book is filled with stories and quotes from Necron Lords and they are very similar to the stories written for the new battle report in WD 382...the Necron Lords all now have personalities, etc, and actually reading those stories will (for some people) be really hard to swallow if they can't get the old fluff out of their heads.
Besides that, something that struck me as odd was the story about the Dolmien Gates. Basically, the way the C'Tan ended the war agaisnt the old ones is because one of the C'Tan was able to breach the webway, and once that happened they were able to chase down and destroy the Old Ones. Well, whatever strange mechanical force was used to pry open the webway is called the 'Dolmien Gates' and the Necrons apparently still have quite a few of these in use that allow them to access small portions of the webway.
They describe this as being a huge boon for the Necrons, allowing them to get around the galaxy quickly, something they wouldn't be able to do otherwise as they don't have the ability to travel through the warp.
Now, this kind confuses me because the fluff is still in there about Necron Warriors instantly teleporting away when they get damaged, and Deathmarks and Flayed Ones are described as teleporting in from pocket dimensions, so I don't really understand why Necrons need to use the Webway to travel around the galaxy, and I don't think the Codex does a good job of explaining this dichotomy either.
I mean, I could come up with some plausible theories, like their ability to teleport has some sort of range limitation or does not allow them to teleport whole spacecraft or something else like that, but as far as I could tell, there is no actual explanation given, which I do think is going to rankle the same people who feel like Necrons using Transports on the battlefield when they can teleport is the stupidest thing they've ever seen.
Oh, and of course the Blood Angels Necron bro-mance is of course re-iterated in this codex which will further infuriate those who it infuriated the first time, I'd wager!
Kurgash wrote:For those who have the codex and are reading the fluff, does anything jump out as another moment of total rage ala Grey Knights sacrificing Sisters of Battle for protection wards or the Blood Angel/Necron team up?
I've been sitting in bed reading the fluff and it's been actually pretty good so far. >.>
Kurgash wrote:For those who have the codex and are reading the fluff, does anything jump out as another moment of total rage ala Grey Knights sacrificing Sisters of Battle for protection wards or the Blood Angel/Necron team up?
Hell, I can answer that!
Well, first off let me preface things by saying that I didn't mind the Blood Angel/Necron team-up before the change in Necron fluff, and now that it has happened that 'moment' isn't even remotely ridiculous anymore.
And I also never had an issue with the Grey Knights slaughtering Sisters to banish some Daemons. I think the 'rage' from that really comes more from people's own ideas of what they think the Grey Knights should be rather than the actual fluff that describes them as willing to go to literally ANY MEANS to kill Daemons.
But back to the new Necron codex. I think the thing that will illicit the biggest negative reaction will probably just be how the Necrons talk amongst themselves and deal with alien species. The book is filled with stories and quotes from Necron Lords and they are very similar to the stories written for the new battle report in WD 382...the Necron Lords all now have personalities, etc, and actually reading those stories will (for some people) be really hard to swallow if they can't get the old fluff out of their heads.
Besides that, something that struck me as odd was the story about the Dolmien Gates. Basically, the way the C'Tan ended the war agaisnt the old ones is because one of the C'Tan was able to breach the webway, and once that happened they were able to chase down and destroy the Old Ones. Well, whatever strange mechanical force was used to pry open the webway is called the 'Dolmien Gates' and the Necrons apparently still have quite a few of these in use that allow them to access small portions of the webway.
The full then describes this as being a boon, allowing them to get around the galaxy quickly, something they wouldn't be able to do otherwise as they don't have the ability to travel through the warp.
Now, this kind confuses me because the fluff is still in there about Necron Warriors instantly teleporting away when they get damaged, and Deathmarks and Flayed Ones are described as teleporting in from pocket dimensions, so I don't really understand why Necrons need to use the Webway to travel around the galaxy, and I don't think the Codex does a good job of explaining this dichotomy either.
I mean, I could come up with some plausible theories, like their ability to teleport has some sort of range limitation or does not allow them to teleport whole spacecraft or something else like that, but as far as I could tell, there is no actual explanation given, which I do think is going to rankle the same people who feel like Necrons using Transports on the battlefield when they can teleport is the stupidest thing they've ever seen.
Oh, and of course the Blood Angels Necron bro-mance is of course re-iterated in this codex which will further infuriate those who it infuriated the first time, I'd wager!
Sweet. Haters can get pissed at the new fluff all they want. My necron lord has been speaking and allying with marines when it was advantageous since 2002 give or take. Of course, we always explained it away as "farmers allying with the sheep to kill the coyotes" because I was always fighting against tyranids.
As for the teleport stuff, I would assume it's a range thing. If it says "galaxy" specifically, then I would imagine that they just don't want to deal with teleporting entire tomb ships if they can help it. Inertial-less drives or not, moving through real-space is going to be slow-going compared to the warp or the web way. It also give more excuses to fight eldar. So I'm all for it by default (die hippy space-elves! die!)
Oh...and before I forget...Imotek
IMO he's going to be worth his cost compared to the lord with the universal remote because of his 4+ seize the initiative. The night fighting is good and all. So's the lightning. However, it's the simple ability to go first when you otherwise shouldn't that's worth all those points. Especially with the absurd popularity of parking-lot lists lately. I mean...the lightning rule itself gives you a one-in-thirty-six chance to kill IG ordinance squadrons AND gimps the crap out of their ability to pie-plate you. I mean...he went from first-pick to last-pick because "I can no longer shoot long-range guns on my turn and completely negate my opponent's ability to retaliate...for THE FIRST THREE TO FOUR TURNS of a five to six turn game."
Imotek is in the codex to allow a necron short-to-mid ranged gun list to not get tabled first turn by IG. That about it. You still get a half-decent lord out of the deal while you're at it.
On the bright side, if the solar pulse did what we were originally hoping it did, the cookie-cutter necron army would have been a parking lot list. Imotek, 3 Death scythes, 3 annihilation barges, 3-4 solar pulses, and no variety. Can anyone with a codex rough-add the cost to get just that? Not just points, but FoC costs as well? I'm curious what we dodged there.
puma713 wrote:For the record, you said "crush 2-5 tanks per turn", not me. "Per turn" counts turn 1.
And my car is capable of accelerating from 0 to 60 in about 8 seconds. That doesn't mean every time I accelerate to 60, I do it in 8 seconds. You exist in a very analogue world, don't you? "Per turn" counts those turns in which I choose to send him flying across enemy tanks. I may do that once a game. I may try it three times a game. I may not do it at all. It's gonna be quite situational.
puma713 wrote:My post must have offended you - but that wasn't my intent. I just think people are high on this character and are looking at him through rose-tinted glasses without having seen what the disadvantages of his range are.
Veiling with him could be interesting, though.
You're probably correct on both counts. But I don't want to be gloomy and negative all the time.
puma713 wrote:Did my evaluation of your favorite character in the book make you ? Why would someone Scout a vehicle into the threat range of the CCB? Unless you play people that do things like this.
YES IT DID! IT MADE ME SAD! IT DID! IT REALLY DID!!!1
puma713 wrote:Str. 10 weaponry. Lances. Str. 9 Lances.
Str 10 + 1d6 = 33% chance of pen. Str 7 + 2d6 = 42% chance of pen. Necrons don't have Lances.
puma713 wrote:You could build a 165 pt Librarian in a marine codex, easily. I'm sorry my post got you butt-hurt. Good luck with him.
I don't know what that term means. Hurt in the butt? Or hurt by a butt? Hurt akin to a butt?
Kurgash wrote:For those who have the codex and are reading the fluff, does anything jump out as another moment of total rage ala Grey Knights sacrificing Sisters of Battle for protection wards or the Blood Angel/Necron team up?
Hell, I can answer that!
Well, first off let me preface things by saying that I didn't mind the Blood Angel/Necron team-up before the change in Necron fluff, and now that it has happened that 'moment' isn't even remotely ridiculous anymore.
And I also never had an issue with the Grey Knights slaughtering Sisters to banish some Daemons. I think the 'rage' from that really comes more from people's own ideas of what they think the Grey Knights should be rather than the actual fluff that describes them as willing to go to literally ANY MEANS to kill Daemons.
But back to the new Necron codex. I think the thing that will illicit the biggest negative reaction will probably just be how the Necrons talk amongst themselves and deal with alien species. The book is filled with stories and quotes from Necron Lords and they are very similar to the stories written for the new battle report in WD 382...the Necron Lords all now have personalities, etc, and actually reading those stories will (for some people) be really hard to swallow if they can't get the old fluff out of their heads.
Besides that, something that struck me as odd was the story about the Dolmien Gates. Basically, the way the C'Tan ended the war agaisnt the old ones is because one of the C'Tan was able to breach the webway, and once that happened they were able to chase down and destroy the Old Ones. Well, whatever strange mechanical force was used to pry open the webway is called the 'Dolmien Gates' and the Necrons apparently still have quite a few of these in use that allow them to access small portions of the webway.
They describe this as being a huge boon for the Necrons, allowing them to get around the galaxy quickly, something they wouldn't be able to do otherwise as they don't have the ability to travel through the warp.
Now, this kind confuses me because the fluff is still in there about Necron Warriors instantly teleporting away when they get damaged, and Deathmarks and Flayed Ones are described as teleporting in from pocket dimensions, so I don't really understand why Necrons need to use the Webway to travel around the galaxy, and I don't think the Codex does a good job of explaining this dichotomy either.
I mean, I could come up with some plausible theories, like their ability to teleport has some sort of range limitation or does not allow them to teleport whole spacecraft or something else like that, but as far as I could tell, there is no actual explanation given, which I do think is going to rankle the same people who feel like Necrons using Transports on the battlefield when they can teleport is the stupidest thing they've ever seen.
Oh, and of course the Blood Angels Necron bro-mance is of course re-iterated in this codex which will further infuriate those who it infuriated the first time, I'd wager!
With Regards to using the webway... I'm going to ignore that because FTL travel is soooo much cooler, and unique in the 40k Universe.
On the subject of Anrakyr V Landraider, the situation came up whereas he disembarked and charged the thing. Furious charge means str 8, means the 2d6 average roll of a 7 is a pen. Not shabby.
As far as Webway Shenanigans go, I would think that in this edition of fluff, the Teleporting was done at light-speed. Really fast over short distances, and sure fast enough to make surprise attacks/swift retreats. For FTL travel, though, without use of the warp, prying open a passage into the webway makes some sense.
Heck i got so into drawing my next converted lord for this army....
BTW, Anyone considering taking the cryptech lord?
S/T7 looks great with re-rolls of hits and reserves.
GiantSlingshot wrote:On the subject of Anrakyr V Landraider, the situation came up whereas he disembarked and charged the thing. Furious charge means str 8, means the 2d6 average roll of a 7 is a pen. Not shabby.
As far as Webway Shenanigans go, I would think that in this edition of fluff, the Teleporting was done at light-speed. Really fast over short distances, and sure fast enough to make surprise attacks/swift retreats. For FTL travel, though, without use of the warp, prying open a passage into the webway makes some sense.
Dunno, gotta read the fluff for my self to see.
For FTL travel they had/have inertia-less drives, which would have also given the impression of teleportation.
Been thinking of buying into Necrons for quite awhile, which will make this my first foray into 40K. I told myself if the rules looked interesting enough, I'd pick them up, and thus far it seems this way. At the very least, I'll be picking up the Codex so I can make some informed choices before I buy.
Anyways. Keep in mind that I'm completely new to the game, have not played whatsoever, just read through the 5th ed. rulebook last night.
So, knowing that I have little to no practical knowledge of the game aside from a reading through the rules...
From page 1:
Orikan the Diviner - makes all enemy units count as moving through difficult terrain first turn.
Cryptek - Harbinger of Transmogrification - Weapon: Tremorstave (36", S 4, AP -, Assault 1, Blast weapon that causes an enemy unit hit by it to count as moving in difficult terrain in their next movement phase).
C'tan:
Make all enemy vehicles moving within 6" of the C'Tan count as moving through difficult terrain. Deep Striking units landing within 6" auto-mishap if their scatter roll is a double (regardless of whether they 'hit' or not).
Makes all difficult terrain count as dangerous for the enemy army and makes existing dangerous terrain cause wounds on '1' or '2' instead of the normal '1'.
Obviously, in order for this to work you have to take another HQ capable of bringing a Royal Court, as Orikan cannot.
--
Does the C'tan ability of 'make difficult terrain count as dangerous' apply only to difficult terrain on the board, or does it apply to any time a unit would be considered as moving through difficult terrain? Also, is it only existing dangerous terrain that gets the wound on 1-2?
Just throwing some random thoughts out here...
1st turn, all enemy units are forced to move through dangerous terrain (Orikan, C'Tan).
At any point after this, any time a unit has to move through difficult terrain already on the board, they have to move through dangerous terrain (assuming that the C'tan stays alive, obviously).
A full unit of 5 Crypteks - if I am reading it right, when you select the Harbinger school, all of the Crypteks get the weapon? So spread 5 Crypteks throughout to lead your squads, each with a Tremorstave.
Any time an enemy infantry unit is within range, try to hit them with a Tremorstave blast. They are considered to be moving through difficulty, with C'tan, dangerous terrain, thus may be stuck taking yet more wounds.
If they decide to hold still and avoid taking more wounds, you light them up with Tesla shots from multiple sources at long range.
Make sure to set your objectives in difficult terrain, to force your enemy to move through dangerous terrain. If I'm reading the rules correctly, if they have to assault into difficult/dangerous terrain, the enemy's initiative is reduced to 1? So that makes your enemy have to a) assault through dangerous terrain, possibly taking wounds, and b) gives your models that aren't as good in CC a fighting chance by reducing their I so you hit first.
Send a unit of Lychguards with Hyperphase Swords and Dispersion Shields after a forward objective, along with a Cryptek with a Seismic Crumble wargear to make it harder for enemies to assault them and give their Dispersion Shields time to earn their point cost.
Does any of this sound like a good idea? Unfortunately, I don't have my own copy of the Codex yet, so there are a few rules I'm not sure precisely how they read (C'tan's dangerous terrain, rule, for instance). Plus, being new means I'm probably misreading things, but eh. What better way to find out then to ask, right?
Also...
Anything not noted in the 1st page that might make Deathmarks a bit more viable? I really do like the look of the unit, but rules-wise... the weapons do count as Sniper, yes? So Rending and Pinning on the weapon, with an additional special rule that allows them to 'deathmark' an opposing unit. So they roll to wound on a 2+, if they roll a 6 it wounds irregardless of toughness and counts as AP2, and if the wounded target fails the save the unit's pinned and forced to go to ground.
While on one hand, I like the idea of it... yet is there any way to keep them safe when they Deep Strike in, in counter to another unit coming in from Reserves?
GiantSlingshot wrote:On the subject of Anrakyr V Landraider, the situation came up whereas he disembarked and charged the thing. Furious charge means str 8, means the 2d6 average roll of a 7 is a pen. Not shabby.
As far as Webway Shenanigans go, I would think that in this edition of fluff, the Teleporting was done at light-speed. Really fast over short distances, and sure fast enough to make surprise attacks/swift retreats. For FTL travel, though, without use of the warp, prying open a passage into the webway makes some sense.
Dunno, gotta read the fluff for my self to see.
For FTL travel they had/have inertia-less drives, which would have also given the impression of teleportation.
Wasn't sure if it got retcon'd or not, and haven't read the novels yet. I really would like to get my copy of this 'dex.
So, just as the necron fluff has evolved, so has this thread...(yes, read it all, from the beginning when it started).
While I am thrilled about a new dex, I will miss my old crons...as unlike some of the new codex jumpers, or even those who had abandoned the star gods (you will pay, the Ctan say...) and put your armies on the shelf, I still regularly play necrons (not competitively, for that I play my tau...yeah, I am hard headed like that). Believe it or not, I win most of my games with my necrons. It takes a very focused player to have the discipline to phase them out when in the hands of an decent Cron general (I don't play them in tourneys, as top tier players, while not only better than me, do have that discipline to effect a phase out...but most players don't...its not as easy as it seems).
First of all, huge thanks to Yak and others who have posted some of our most accurate rumors, and to those lucky enough to actually get their hands on the dex already (I get mine hopefully on Friday).
Anyway, some thoughts.
So the Stormlord Giveth, the Stormlord taketh away... Wow, this guy went from OMG to "derp" in a few pages flat. Even before when we thought the night fighting/solar pulse trick would work, I had some reservations about it...especially as the lightning strikes sounded very iffy indeed....(that is very luck based).
Destroyers Ahh..yes...so, we may actually get five of them. Not that I will have the points, but at least I have the models.
Wraiths Not necrons? WTF? Well, there goes a lot of ideas. :( we will have to see, but I can tell you from experience that they will and do fail saves, and that with their craptastic initiative and no WBB/RP....yeah, my flying chrome spines may just stay in the box...sorry boys, you were fun (I like to run a wraith wing often).
OMG The Command Barge!!! Well, while I too am excited about the warscythe, lets take a real look at this (or as best we can until we build a few).
So, to use this fun event, I need to fly over a unit, and only hit on a 4+ if I move more than 6" I believe.
So, how long is this model? It looks about 6" long at least to me. That means, if I am going to "fly over" a tank, I am almost always going to have to more more then 6". Also, most tanks, if you are lucky, are about 3-5" wide...if you are coming at the exact correct angle. So, which means, this barge needs to start its turn about 3" away? You think the other player is going to pull up that close?
Ok, IF this thing is fast, then maybe you can move all out...which means, no shooting any tachyon arrows or other fun toys, or getting out to assault. Even then, thats not very far either....I have a feeling that while the concept of flying over parking lots full of tanks is an awesome one...the execution of it will be much more challenging.
Immortal Weapons WTF? Only space marines get storm bolters? Oh well. The tesla sounds neat, but will take a lot of manuvering room to have an advantage over the gauss...only games and time will tell...I look forward to battle reports from players with strong tactical acumen.
Arks are amazing! Well, the warrior regen is good, and the AV13 aint bad...the price is very steep however.
That an AV11 in the back is prime for krak grenades and of course the ever present power fist.
Also, while the side guns are neat....it seems like it will be few circumstances where you fire both, and almost never at the same target.
I do like them however, the points are just a bit steep.
Necrons will Blast them off the table! This was a common theme during the pages (was it just a few days ago?) where the storm lord was all the rage.
I hate to say it, but I am not seeing much to tell me that the New necrons are a "shooty" army.
Yeah, the doomsday is nice...if I don't have to move it, if I have fire lanes, and if the target is not in cover. And thats 175 points for a single shot...ask tau players why they favor broadsides over hammerheads (broadsides are twin linked).
Yes, gauss is neato...but unles you are shooting against vehicles...they are just bolters really, and not even storm bolters.
Yeah, the tesla destructor is nifty...but at 24" its going to catch a LOT of counter fire.
to me a shooty army has a combination of excellent range and volume of fire.
I see a few things with some range (destroyers, doomsday) and a few things with a bit of volume (open topped arks, with 5 guns on the side)...but ...tau or venoms they are not. Again, lets see how the battles go.
The Fighters I am very intrigued about these flyer units...AV11 is rough...lets hope the points are cheap. I am looking forward to the challenge of scratch building a few.
Death Marks So, unless I get to shoot in my opponents phase, these guys are disruption units at best, and dead as worst.
19 points? Yeah, sniper is nice...when fighting CTan and nids...otherwise, most weapons already wound marines on a 4+
Fortunately, I will just convert some of my spare warriors with the heads and guns....
I look forward to players better than I giving cluse as how to best use these units.
And finally....
But come sixth edition we will be cool! This is staggeringly bad design. Does that mean I get a points reduction NOW for my death marks or destroyers?
Or I just play for about the next year (or so...who knows) with over costed models in a dex that wont fully be strong in 5th, and almost immediatly ecliplsed by the first marine dex in 6th? Shame on you GW...write the dex for the players to play NOW, and give EVERY DEX an online update for 6th. Too bad there is no way to use technology to almost freely and easily update customers around the world with new material...oh wait....there is.
So, while I think some of the fluff could have been better, and I dont care for some of the nerfs, I will retire my old dex (which I actively use) and enjoy the new models and rules.
GiantSlingshot wrote:Another issue to rules-lawyer.
C'tan with Difficult = Dangerous Power is on the field
Enemy with slow and purposeful.
Are they just up a creek?
If so, then Nurgle Marines are going to have a bad day against Necron armies.
But I don't think it will work that way. I believe Slow and Purposeful reads as "units move as if they were moving through difficult terrain". It doesn't actually say that they are in the terrain.
Again, I hope it works that way, but given the previous devious combos that have been debunked upon scrutiny, I wouldn't be surprised if this one doesn't passively murder everything with Slow and Purposeful.
Nurgle Marines are NOT slow and purposeful. Slow and purposeful does say that you "count as moving through difficult terrain" So... MANZ.. Oblits... anything else S&P... could be in trouble lol.
To anyone saying the codex is lackluster, I think that the near hourly sway from one strategy to the next is enough to speak to the versatility of this codex lol
Destroyers - evidently now we can have 1-5, instead of max 3..
what is the deal with the Heavy Destroyers? I have this understanding that you can upgrade 3 destroyers to HDestroyers.. is that 3 across 3 FOC slots, or can you have a unit of 5 .. 3 HD and 2 regular D? So.. if you spend points like mad you can have 9 HDestroyers across 3 squads?
Scarabs - We are now certain that they don't have Reanimation Protocols? Do they also still get stuck with the I2?
Tomb Spiders - any indication of point cost compared to last codex? And.. how many Scarab bases can one poop out in a turn? 1 still?
(sorry if some of this has been mentioned, I did just reread the 1st page.. )
To someone with the Codex, can we get confirmation on Destroyers being 1-5.
Also confirmation on the new Wraiths being about 40 points base, what is the cost of the whip coil and particle gun? and do either of these options affect their base number of attacks? I love the old Wraith models far too much to not include a squad of 5, I certainly think they will have their uses.
I've been reading this since sub 100 posts, don't think I've seen confirmation on the Destroyers yet, or any mention of Wraith upgrade costs, everyone is too happy about their tank hunting barge.
Codex confirmation wishlist:
Destroyers: 1-5?
Reanimation Protocols: On everything non-C'Tan? Not on Scarabs/Spyders/Wraiths?
Warscythes: Has 2d6 penetration been confirmed?
Imotekh(sp?)/Solar Pulse: wording issues/comparing? Does a Pulse make the rain stop permanently?
Any chance of a scan/picture of the art for Wraiths, Spyders, and Scythes of various shapes and flavors, so we know what to expect for the new models?
yakface wrote:But back to the new Necron codex. I think the thing that will illicit the biggest negative reaction will probably just be how the Necrons talk amongst themselves and deal with alien species. The book is filled with stories and quotes from Necron Lords and they are very similar to the stories written for the new battle report in WD 382...the Necron Lords all now have personalities, etc, and actually reading those stories will (for some people) be really hard to swallow if they can't get the old fluff out of their heads.
I don't really have a problem with this. The way I see it, they haven't really "retconned" the backstory in this method. It's plausible that all necrons seen previous to this codex were simply from the one tomb world that exists only to terminate all life anywhere, and that the other necrons - the new models, the personalities, everything; are simpy from tomb worlds which had not yet awoken or which chose to avoid the Imperium for whatever reason.
I can't lie, though, the troop transports bug me. I'm going to convert mine to be a floating portal of some kind.
yakface wrote:Oh, and of course the Blood Angels Necron bro-mance is of course re-iterated in this codex which will further infuriate those who it infuriated the first time, I'd wager!
Well, this bugged me before, but it makes sense now.
God, I can't wait for my book to ship so I can read it. The waiting is killing me.
Destroyers are 1 for 40 points, can add up to 4 more at 40 points a model. Can upgrade 3 of those to Heavy Destroyers at 20 model. So yeah, 5 per FOC.
Canoptek Wraiths are 35 per model (Rending, Wraithflight, 3+,3++), may include up to 5 additional Wraiths at 35. Can upgrade to have Particle Caster for 5, Whip Coils for 10, Transdimensional Beamer for 15.
Reanimation Protocols on everything Necron, so not C'tan, Wraiths, Scarabs or Vehicles (although Tomb Blades do have it.)
Warscythe IS 2d6, it has been confirmed. Although I did see someone mention it ignoring inv saves, which it definitely does not.
Yes, once the NF rules which have been in play from the first turn because of Imotekh special power stop, he cannot bring them into play again. If you do decide to use a Solar Pulse to do so his lightning attacks won't work.
Hmmm I see, I wonder how effective you could be by taking a 5 strong Wraith squad (doesn't need to be max they don't get RP anyway) and maybe only giving 3 of the 5 whip coils, should get most of what they assault down to I2, the new model looks like it will still be 40mm base?
I lol'd at this, I wonder if it's going to upset even more people
799.M41 The End of Waaagh! 'Eadcrumpa
Bik Mek 'Eadcrumpa leads his Waaagh! to the newly awakened Tomb Eorld of Suranus. After initial skirmishes proved his still lethargic Necrons to be no match for the Orks. Lord Nepthk strikes a pact with 'Eadcrumpa. In exchange for several dozen functioning Doomsday cannons, 'Eadcrumpa agrees to leave Suranus and seek plunder elsewhere (whilst secretly resolving to return to Suranus at a later date). Three months later, when the Waaagh! descends on the agri world of Eden Prime, 'Eadcrumpa is unable to resist his urge to investigate the Doomsday cannons' systems. One breached containment core later and 'Eadcrumpa, his Waaagh! and the planet Eden Prime are erased from existence.
So my questions are this:
Does this count as flaming?
And how long until the first Necron/Ork bro-mance picture gets posted.
Did you hear the one where a techpriest got hold of a gauss flayer? He plugged it into a planetary electricity grid and it overloaded the whole thing. I lol'ed at that.
According to the new codex, the Flayed Ones came about due to them being cursed by a C'tan before he was utterly obliterated, not just split into shards. His name was Llandu'gor, The Flayer.
my eyes are burning from the fluff of necrons teaming up with orks an blood angels...
Pretend you didnt see that fluff and use the old 3rd edition fluff which actually makes sense.
You mean the old fluff that was incredibly one-dimensional and left absolutely no room for anything except 'KILL EVERYTHING'?
No thanks.
Once you read the new fluff you'll see its an entirely different paradigm shift. Necrons were once Necrontyr and when they transferred over, they still kept much of their personalities...so their civilization still exists, changed because of what they've been through and the unique nature of the bodies they're stuck in now, but they now have all the interesting dynamics that any galactic civilization would have.
Yes, they're no longer simply mindless automatons, but that doesn't make them necessarily 'human' any more than the Eldar or Tau or Orks are 'human' because they have goals, desires, fears, etc.
Their essence was transferred over into mechanical bodies, so while they do share some proclivity towards acting 'robotic' (especially the lesser constructs like warriors that are literally still automatons), for the most part they still have all the quirks that existed in them as a people when they were flesh and blood (minus some obvious stuff like eating, sleeping, worrying about dying from old age, etc).
So yes, once you embrace the new fluff (assuming you can abandon the grognard in you and accept some change for the better) it makes complete and total sense for (some) Necrons to team up with any and every race (with perhaps the exception of the Tyranids).
The fluff describes a waking Tomb World as being very vulnerable until its systems get up to speed, so there's no reason why a crafty Necron Lord wouldn't barter a deal with rampaging Orks to buy themselves enough time to fully wake. No doubt once his world is awake the plan would be to go wipe the Orks out and reclaim their tech, but yeah, buying Orks off is certainly not out of character for the Necrons anymore.
The Decapitator wrote:Destroyers are 1 for 40 points, can add up to 4 more at 40 points a model. Can upgrade 3 of those to Heavy Destroyers at 20 model. So yeah, 5 per FOC.
Canoptek Wraiths are 35 per model (Rending, Wraithflight, 3+,3++), may include up to 5 additional Wraiths at 35. Can upgrade to have Particle Caster for 5, Whip Coils for 10, Transdimensional Beamer for 15.
Reanimation Protocols on everything Necron, so not C'tan, Wraiths, Scarabs or Vehicles (although Tomb Blades do have it.)
Edit: Spelling.
Please tell me Wraiths being under non RP units is a typo? They are necrons.
yakface wrote:
You mean the old fluff that was incredibly one-dimensional and left absolutely no room for anything except 'KILL EVERYTHING'?
No thanks.
The old fluff was maybe one-dimensional, but it made sense and I'm sure that a competent writer could make it work without basically turning the Necrons into metal DE minus the torture part (I'm not that writer)!
The new fluff spits in the face of 15+ years of story development and not just Necron background but a whole lot besides it:
- the Tyrannids invaded the Galaxy because they where fleeing from one of the C'Tan, not anymore since he was destroyed 65 million years ago!
- the Machine God in Mars is suppose to be a C'Tan, not anymore since he was destroyed 65 million years ago!
- a C'Tan was responsible for the whole Gothic campaign thingy, guess it wasn't since he was destroyed 65 million years ago!
You saying that it was a change for the better is your opinion, and a really bad one at that because it states that continuity in the 40K universe means nothing to you and dismissing the people that think that that continuity maters and derive their pleasure of the game from that continuity as "grognards" is incredibly shallow and narrowminded of you.
Sir Harry Flashman, VC wrote:
Please tell me Wraiths being under non RP units is a typo? They are necrons.
No, now they're called 'Canoptek Wraiths' just like Scarabs are called 'Canoptek Scarabs' and basically Wraiths, Tomb Spyders & Scarabs make up the Tomb World's defenses when the rest of the Necrons were sleeping. So therefore the Wraiths are not Necrontyr that got transferred over into metal bodies, but rather they are true automatons working for the Tomb World's master program.
So it does kind of make sense that those three units don't have Reanimation Protocols, as they're the ones that exist to service the actual Necrons (former Necrontyr). Plus they've all got multiple wounds as well...so again it kind of makes sense.
Its definitely different from what I saw, but it does make sense...it also explains why Wraiths are cheaper in points cost then they were in the version I have too!
I believe the prefix 'canoptek' is a necron designation for a construct, not a soul-carrying metal automaton. So canoptek scarabs, canoptek wraiths, and canoptek spyders are all seemingly robots built by robots.
Cue the X-zibit picture "Yo Dawg, I heard you liked robots..."
Edit - yes i'm aware necrons are soulless. The above slip is obviously a misnomer.
my eyes are burning from the fluff of necrons teaming up with orks an blood angels...
Pretend you didnt see that fluff and use the old 3rd edition fluff which actually makes sense.
You mean the old fluff that was incredibly one-dimensional and left absolutely no room for anything except 'KILL EVERYTHING'?
No thanks.
Once you read the new fluff you'll see its an entirely different paradigm shift. Necrons were once Necrontyr and when they transferred over, they still kept much of their personalities...so their civilization still exists, changed because of what they've been through and the unique nature of the bodies they're stuck in now, but they now have all the interesting dynamics that any galactic civilization would have.
Yes, they're no longer simply mindless automatons, but that doesn't make them necessarily 'human' any more than the Eldar or Tau or Orks are 'human' because they have goals, desires, fears, etc.
Their essence was transferred over into mechanical bodies, so while they do share some proclivity towards acting 'robotic' (especially the lesser constructs like warriors that are literally still automatons), for the most part they still have all the quirks that existed in them as a people when they were flesh and blood (minus some obvious stuff like eating, sleeping, worrying about dying from old age, etc).
So yes, once you embrace the new fluff (assuming you can abandon the grognard in you and accept some change for the better) it makes complete and total sense for (some) Necrons to team up with any and every race (with perhaps the exception of the Tyranids).
The fluff describes a waking Tomb World as being very vulnerable until its systems get up to speed, so there's no reason why a crafty Necron Lord wouldn't barter a deal with rampaging Orks to buy themselves enough time to fully wake. No doubt once his world is awake the plan would be to go wipe the Orks out and reclaim their tech, but yeah, buying Orks off is certainly not out of character for the Necrons anymore.
I agree. The new fluff is MUCH more adaptable/workable on an army based scale. Necron v. Necron now makes sense. Necrons allying with anyone other than Necrons now makes sense. Necron armies participating in campaigns now makes sense.
Forgive me if this question has come up or if I'm pointing out a non-issue but...
I've been following this thread since about page 100 or so and obviously keeping updated on the first page so I don't believe this has been asked yet.
Destroyer squad. Are they able to split their fire? Simple enough question but consider the following:
5 Destroyer squad.
2 Normal destroyers 4 x str 5/6, ap 2 shots - anti-infantry
3 Heavy destroyers = 3 x str 9, ap 1 shots - anti-tank
If they are unable to split their fire you would essentially be "wasting" some of the squad fire power as the heavies firing at infantry would be overkill and better spent hitting vehicles and likewise the normal destroyers firing at vehicles would be a waste of anti-infantry.
Sorry but according to this, the Canoptek Wraiths are "primarily probe mechanoids, programmed to report back to their Canoptek Spyder controllers via interstitial interface, rather than act under their own cognisance."
PhantomViper wrote:
- the Tyrannids invaded the Galaxy because they where fleeing from one of the C'Tan, not anymore since he was destroyed 65 million years ago!
- the Machine God in Mars is suppose to be a C'Tan, not anymore since he was destroyed 65 million years ago!
- a C'Tan was responsible for the whole Gothic campaign thingy, guess it wasn't since he was destroyed 65 million years ago!
You saying that it was a change for the better is your opinion, and a really bad one at that because it states that continuity in the 40K universe means nothing to you and dismissing the people that think that that continuity maters and derive their pleasure of the game from that continuity as "grognards" is incredibly shallow and narrowminded of you.
1) If it was ever implied that the Tyranids were fleeing from a Necron, I guarantee it was just that...an implication. There has never been any definitive reason as to why the Tyranids are invading our galaxy.
2) The Machine God is still a C'Tan and the fluff still holds true to that. There are unaccounted for C'Tan shards ever since they were shattered.
3) Again, Anything the C'Tan did in the previous fluff (in terms of manipulating people, etc) is still fine, because there are still C'Tan shards running around in the wild. The Deceiver is still out there...hell there's probably a bunch of different aspects of the Deceiver running around out there causing havoc. In fact, the new fluff makes the Deceiver's antics even *more* believable because there is now a reason for him to be in several places at once!
And when you say that the new fluff 'spits in the face' of 15+ years of story development, that may be the amount of time since the Necron were introduced, but they've had platry little actual 'development' because the last codex basically painted them into a corner where there could be no expansion...The C'Tan were the ones in charge and they had only one goal...to feed. So there was never going to be any reason for the Necrons to do anything of interest.
And besides, the whole idea that the C'Tan were somehow responsible for practically everything in the 40K universe was, to put it bluntly, a bit of a lame crutch that they've been leaning on for years...so if that angle has been devalued, then IMHO we're all the better for it.
Not to mention that 40K, from the very beginning has always been about changing and rearranging the fluff. Go back and have a read in Rogue Trader and see how many things have been completely altered since then.
If you can't move the sotryline forward (as GW is not interested in doing) then the only thing you can do is to expand and diversify the backstory when needed. And the Necrons were clearly a case where the initial fluff written for the 3rd edition codex put way to narrow a hold onto the Necrontyr and didn't allow them to breathe as a growing army type and give reason for players to individualize their own force.
So yeah, if there was ever a case where fluff should be thrown out and changed for the better, I think this was it.
And to say that Necrons are now just Dark Eldar but with metal bodies...well are Orks just humans with Green skin? Are Eldar just Tau but with pointy ears?
The Necrons are a unique race because they have a strange history that has turned them into what they are today. But the fact that they have their own motivations now doesn't mean they're just the same as 'X' other race.
Dark Eldar are driven by their need to torture to keep themselves essentially alive. Necrons have absolutely no desire to torture, they want to rule. Dark Eldar have absolutely no desire to rule anything, they just want to inflict pain for their own amusement.
Scoffer wrote:Forgive me if this question has come up or if I'm pointing out a non-issue but...
I've been following this thread since about page 100 or so and obviously keeping updated on the first page so I don't believe this has been asked yet.
Destroyer squad. Are they able to split their fire? Simple enough question but consider the following:
5 Destroyer squad.
2 Normal destroyers 4 x str 5/6, ap 2 shots - anti-infantry
3 Heavy destroyers = 3 x str 9, ap 1 shots - anti-tank
If they are unable to split their fire you would essentially be "wasting" some of the squad fire power as the heavies firing at infantry would be overkill and better spent hitting vehicles and likewise the normal destroyers firing at vehicles would be a waste of anti-infantry.
Curious as to other peoples thoughts on this.
To answer your question, no they cannot split fire.
However, think about this. Gauss Cannons are S5 which means they will affect anything up to Armour 11 (DE Raiders and the like), but with it being Gauss it will auto glance on a 6 anyway. So from a squad of 3 Destroyers and 2 Heavy Destroyers on a LR you can get a *potential* 2 x Penetrating and 3 Glancing hits.
They don't need to split fire, any Gauss weapon has the potential to hurt anything with an armour value.
Bring Scarabs into play and you make that even better.
Scoffer wrote:Forgive me if this question has come up or if I'm pointing out a non-issue but...
I've been following this thread since about page 100 or so and obviously keeping updated on the first page so I don't believe this has been asked yet.
Destroyer squad. Are they able to split their fire? Simple enough question but consider the following:
5 Destroyer squad.
2 Normal destroyers 4 x str 5/6, ap 2 shots - anti-infantry
3 Heavy destroyers = 3 x str 9, ap 1 shots - anti-tank
If they are unable to split their fire you would essentially be "wasting" some of the squad fire power as the heavies firing at infantry would be overkill and better spent hitting vehicles and likewise the normal destroyers firing at vehicles would be a waste of anti-infantry.
Curious as to other peoples thoughts on this.
Which is the same problem that nearly any unit with heavy weapons in it has.
No, they can't split fire.
At least with Destroyers/Heavy Destroyers every model always has a chance to damage a vehicle (due to the Gauss rule).
Im mind boggled anyone has a problem with the new fluff. Unless you liked your fluff like a black spray painted wall; monocrome and no real writing, then your all set here.
In all seriousness, this race is waking up, very vulnerable and willing to wheel and deal to get their kingdoms back.... So unless your now going to say Orks are unable to be fooled or manipulated (half the eldar fluff?) then there is nothing here to be upset over.
To answer your question, no they cannot split fire.
However, think about this. Gauss Cannons are S5 which means they will affect anything up to Armour 11 (DE Raiders and the like), but with it being Gauss it will auto glance on a 6 anyway. So from a squad of 3 Destroyers and 2 Heavy Destroyers on a LR you can get a *potential* 2 x Penetrating and 3 Glancing hits.
They don't need to split fire, any Gauss weapon has the potential to hurt anything with an armour value.
Bring Scarabs into play and you make that even better.
I may not have expressed myself clearly in the original post. What I was trying to get as was, yes the gauss can potentially hurt armour so its not really a major issue with the AP 2 and medium strength on the normal destroyers these are essentially anti-infantry. The way I'm looking at it now is if you put some Heavy Destroyers in the same unit you making the unit anti-armour and most of the ap 2 stuff could be seen as "wasted" since even the basic squad of necrons can glance a LR to death (something I have done quite often). I suppose it comes down to personal choice but for me I think I would rather run 5 normal destroyers and have more of an anti-infantry unit and rely on the bigger stuff to take out armour (e.g. all the other anti-armour mentioned through out this thread) while still retaining the possibility of glancing on the normal destroyers for the crew stunned/shaken results from most of my glancing hits.
I'm just gonna drop a last thing about destroyers their gauss cannons are only 24" it took me a few to get past that yesterday. Th H. Gauss cannon is still 36"
Scoffer wrote:
I may not have expressed myself clearly in the original post. What I was trying to get as was, yes the gauss can potentially hurt armour so its not really a major issue with the AP 2 and medium strength on the normal destroyers these are essentially anti-infantry. The way I'm looking at it now is if you put some Heavy Destroyers in the same unit you making the unit anti-armour and most of the ap 2 stuff could be seen as "wasted" since even the basic squad of necrons can glance a LR to death (something I have done quite often). I suppose it comes down to personal choice but for me I think I would rather run 5 normal destroyers and have more of an anti-infantry unit and rely on the bigger stuff to take out armour (e.g. all the other anti-armour mentioned through out this thread)
Yes, but your Destroyers are now shooting one less shot per model, which makes a big difference if you're trying to glance something to death.
However, I'm sure there will be some people sticking with pure Heavy squads vs. regular squads and I'm sure we'll see some people trying mixing a few Heavies in with some regulars...I guess the one good thing for people who have max Destroyers and max Heavy Destroyers for the 3rd edition codex is they have all the models they need to try out every single variation before they figure out what works best for them!
So i've got a rules question (that should probably go to YMDC as of Nov 5 2011, but for now i'll post it here):
Vehicles treat difficult terrain as if it were dangerous, yes? So immediately, the c'tan power that effects all area terrain becomes a 33% chance to immobilize enemy vehicles, just for them trying to move into it. Factor in Orikan the diviner's power, and the enemy has to make a choice on turn 1 - risk immobilizing their vehicles on a roll of 1, or 2, or stay in their deployment zone and wait for the pain.
Do you remember that time that you were inches away from victory in a capture and control game, and at the last minute a venom or raider or land speeder turbo-boosted to just within 3", contesting the objective and costing you a victory? Now with the c'tan in play you can target those skimmers with a tremorstave, and leave them a 1/3 chance to immobilize and become destroyed if they try any shenanigans like this...or you can plan ahead and place your objectives in area terrain to start with.
So the main issue is does the c'tan power affect vehicles, if so, does their dangerous terrain become double-dangerous as per the wording of the rule?
Also in dawn of war you'll kill 33 percent of the enemy's transports before they can even roll on the table. rock.
tetrisphreak wrote:So i've got a rules question (that should probably go to YMDC as of Nov 5 2011, but for now i'll post it here):
Vehicles treat difficult terrain as if it were dangerous, yes? So immediately, the c'tan power that effects all area terrain becomes a 33% chance to immobilize enemy vehicles, just for them trying to move into it. Factor in Orikan the diviner's power, and the enemy has to make a choice on turn 1 - risk immobilizing their vehicles on a roll of 1, or 2, or stay in their deployment zone and wait for the pain.
Do you remember that time that you were inches away from victory in a capture and control game, and at the last minute a venom or raider or land speeder turbo-boosted to just within 3", contesting the objective and costing you a victory? Now with the c'tan in play you can target those skimmers with a tremorstave, and leave them a 1/3 chance to immobilize and become destroyed if they try any shenanigans like this...or you can plan ahead and place your objectives in area terrain to start with.
So the main issue is does the c'tan power affect vehicles, if so, does their dangerous terrain become double-dangerous as per the wording of the rule?
Also in dawn of war you'll kill 33 percent of the enemy's transports before they can even roll on the table. rock.
I think they will have to FAQ the answer when it comes to Orkian's first turn ability and whether it couples with the C'Tan power. The C'Tan power actually says (in my version):
'Whilst the C'tan is on the battlefield, all difficult terrain is also dangerous for the enemy. If the terrain is already dangerous, the Dangerous Terrain test is failed on a 1 or 2.'
Whereas Orkian's rule says:
'During the first turn of the game, all enemy units are treated as moving through difficult terrain...'
So I could see the argument that the C'Tan's power is only affecting actual terrain, but then again I see the opposite argument as well (which is why it needs to be FAQ'd most likely).
Of course the C'Tan power is called 'Writhing Worldscape' and clearly is meant to display the actual world rising up to attack the enemy, which doesn't really make sense for units that simply have to move as though they're in difficult terrain, so I could see GW ruling based on that alone for their FAQ.
And of course, if someone is running that combo and they do rule that it works, you'll just probably see people hold their vehicles in true reserves for Dawn of War missions (so they can't come on in the first turn).
So this new fluff is actually making me laugh instead of nerd rage, finally I think Mr. Ward has earned a pass from me. I'll still reserve final judgment for when I get my own book.
Well, at least they are cheaper and have two wounds, it's only a 5+++ at the end of the day.
Automatically Appended Next Post: People hating the new fluff should grab a copy of Rogue Trader of eBay, that's some truely crazy fluff.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Just one more thing. What's the wording on the monolith portal rules, is it that any non-vehicle unit may use it i.e. C'tan shards, or is there a big list of who can and can't use it like the old dex?
Sir Harry Flashman, VC wrote:Just one more thing. What's the wording on the monolith portal rules, is it that any non-vehicle unit may use it i.e. C'tan shards, or is there a big list of who can and can't use it like the old dex?
I think it was stated earlier that only Necrons can use the portal. So no Wraiths, Scarabs, Spyders, C'tan. That makes sense to me...most of those seem a little too nasty given teleport capabilities.
Sir Harry Flashman, VC wrote:Just one more thing. What's the wording on the monolith portal rules, is it that any non-vehicle unit may use it i.e. C'tan shards, or is there a big list of who can and can't use it like the old dex?
I think it was stated earlier that only Necrons can use the portal. So no Wraiths, Scarabs, Spyders, C'tan. That makes sense to me...most of those seem a little too nasty given teleport capabilities.
There is no mention of any special rule "necron" in the dex, they only have the rule: reanimation protocols. however I can't remember much about that portal thingy, sorry.
On the saves part, the 2+ as is pretty cheap, and the phaseshifter is inthe top of the upgrade range, but it is a 3++ so I guess that is fair
The portal allows any non-vehicle unit to be teleported, but given that they count as disembarking from a moving vehicle automatically when they do so, I fail to see how it is too powerful to allow Scarabs, Spyders or even C'Tan to do so.
yakface wrote:
The portal allows any non-vehicle unit to be teleported, but given that they count as disembarking from a moving vehicle automatically when they do so, I fail to see how it is too powerful to allow Scarabs, Spyders or even C'Tan to do so.
Well, I am glad to be wrong. It'll be awesome having mobile cover to support Scarabs and Wraiths.
I think by combining Orikan+C'tan and Anrakyr+ccb, you have a scary combination.
Anrakyr-165 pts
CCB-80 pts
C'tan w/ terrain afftect-maybe 240 pts? (i don't know the cost)
Orikan- maybe 120pts? (i don't know the cost)
A royal court x5 cryptek with tremor staffs-200 pts? (i don't know the cost)
Right there that is 805 points, but in a 2500 point game it might be worth it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
H.B.M.C. wrote:So what's the plan here guys - 200-page thread by launch day?
Makes sense, since the cost for 5 praetorians, 5 lychguard with no shields, 5 regular destroyers, 2 regular destroyers+2heavy destroyers, and a monolith all cost 200 points, so why not?
Dimensional Corridor: At the start of the movement phase, choose one friendly non engaged non-vehicle Necron unit on the battlefield or in reserve. That unit immediately phased out from it's current position and 'disembarks' from the monoliths portal. Any model that cannot be placed are removed ad casualties, but the move is otherwise treated as disembarking from a vehicle that has moved at combat speed.
The Sempiternal Weave is 15 points for a lord or Overlord.
The Phase Shifter is 45 points for a lord or Overlord.
Yak is right about the C'tan diff/dangerous terrain rule.
Orikan has the Staff of Tomorrow, doesn't state that it's a PW but does say that it re-rolls Hits and ignored armour saves.
So as the release approaches I've been trying to figure the best way to deal with a Termi-deathstar with the new rules, I know i could just drop template upon template, but i'm making the assumption that they outflank/ DS.
I'm thinking Lychguard with shields and a spyder would be an effective way of at least tying them up.
Judging from the wargear descriptions and the artwork in the book, do you feel it's going to be easy to use a generic lord/cryptek to represent these special characters until their specific models come out?
tetrisphreak wrote:Judging from the wargear descriptions and the artwork in the book, do you feel it's going to be easy to use a generic lord/cryptek to represent these special characters until their specific models come out?
Shouldn't be terribly hard, but I think it'll be a 'counts as' type deal for a lot of people.
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:Codex confirmation wishlist:
Destroyers: 1-5?
Reanimation Protocols: On everything non-C'Tan? Not on Scarabs/Spyders/Wraiths?
Warscythes: Has 2d6 penetration been confirmed?
Imotekh(sp?)/Solar Pulse: wording issues/comparing? Does a Pulse make the rain stop permanently?
Any chance of a scan/picture of the art for Wraiths, Spyders, and Scythes of various shapes and flavors, so we know what to expect for the new models?
I'm not sure if all this has been answered, but I've had my coffee now and I'll take a crack at anything anyone wants to know. I don't have the codex here at work, but I can always look at it at lunch if I don't remember.
Destroyers ARE 1-5.
No RP for everything you listed.
Warscythes ARE 2D6 : )
Solar Pulse gets rid of lightning.
whigwam wrote:@Swara - Does Imotekh get a power weapon of any kind? (Thanks in advance!)
Oh man.. I think he's one I didn't look at very much last night. (I'm much more about the hero and bodyguard duo). If no one else knows I'll take a peak at lunch.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sasori wrote:
whigwam wrote:@Swara - Does Imotekh get a power weapon of any kind? (Thanks in advance!)
It looks like Imotekh's weapon is the Gauntlet of flame, which isn't one. Unless they changed that.
If it's a gauntlet than he "just" gets rerolls to hit and to wound in CC and a standard flamer template.
Sasori wrote:It looks like Imotekh's weapon is the Gauntlet of flame, which isn't one. Unless they changed that.
If it's a gauntlet than he "just" gets rerolls to hit and to wound in CC and a standard flamer template.
That was what it looked like to me as well. Just was having a hard time believing a 225 pt character with excellent armor and no power weapon.
Seems like to me that Imotekh isn't the Necron version of ghazgull, Logan, or Draigo in a CC sense - He's more of a utility HQ that offers effects that help the entire army (Night fighting guaranteed to advance under the cover of darkness, 4+ seize to counter-deploy and go first, lightning bolts to thin the ranks of the enemy where possible). As such he's expensive but not 280 points expensive like swarmlord or calgar.
Sasori wrote:It looks like Imotekh's weapon is the Gauntlet of flame, which isn't one. Unless they changed that.
If it's a gauntlet than he "just" gets rerolls to hit and to wound in CC and a standard flamer template.
That was what it looked like to me as well. Just was having a hard time believing a 225 pt character with excellent armor and no power weapon.
Seems like to me that Imotekh isn't the Necron version of ghazgull, Logan, or Draigo in a CC sense - He's more of a utility HQ that offers effects that help the entire army (Night fighting guaranteed to advance under the cover of darkness, 4+ seize to counter-deploy and go first, lightning bolts to thin the ranks of the enemy where possible). As such he's expensive but not 280 points expensive like swarmlord or calgar.
Yeah, if you want a CC monster, take the bodyguard.
tetrisphreak wrote:Seems like to me that Imotekh isn't the Necron version of ghazgull, Logan, or Draigo in a CC sense - He's more of a utility HQ that offers effects that help the entire army (Night fighting guaranteed to advance under the cover of darkness, 4+ seize to counter-deploy and go first, lightning bolts to thin the ranks of the enemy where possible). As such he's expensive but not 280 points expensive like swarmlord or calgar.
Yeah, that sounds about right. I wasn't expecting him to lead a deathstar anytime soon, just wondering what I might do with him once his storm peters out. The bonus KP for ICs and MCs would be a lot more tempting if he had a Warscythe..but ah well.
Rumors for 6th edition currently state that there will be no more random first turn - there is a bidding war (akin to apoc) where whoever bids the most points goes first, but their opponent has the opportunity to spend said points on army buffs and stratagems. So imagine this - seize the initiative is no longer a universal rule, but only army specific HQ's (like vect and imotekh) that allow a seize on a particular dice roll (4+ in both cases). Now imagine your opponent has bid 5 points, and you bid zero. You get 5 stratagem points worth of army buffs, he gets none and has to set up first. Then you counter deploy and roll a 4+..guess what? I get all those benefits and still get to shoot first. Based all on speculation, conjecture, and rumors but seems pretty strong overall to me (and lends credence to his "support HQ" role even more so).
The second - Orikan the diviner is a cryptek, yes? Can't take a royal court but he has all these time-travel abilities. Does he come with a chronometron as stock wargear? Re-rolling his 'stars are right' special rule can very much come in handy when necessary.
The Decapitator wrote:Dimensional Corridor: At the start of the movement phase, choose one friendly non engaged non-vehicle Necron unit on the battlefield or in reserve. That unit immediately phased out from it's current position and 'disembarks' from the monoliths portal. Any model that cannot be placed are removed ad casualties, but the move is otherwise treated as disembarking from a vehicle that has moved at combat speed.
The Sempiternal Weave is 15 points for a lord or Overlord.
The Phase Shifter is 45 points for a lord or Overlord.
Yak is right about the C'tan diff/dangerous terrain rule.
Orikan has the Staff of Tomorrow, doesn't state that it's a PW but does say that it re-rolls Hits and ignored armour saves.
Vargard Obyrob has a Warscythe.
Anrakyr has a Warscythe.
C'tan and Tomb Stalkers now have a good degree of mobility then. Backwards facing monolith, teleport, and bring the pain next turn.
tetrisphreak wrote:Rumors for 6th edition currently state that there will be no more random first turn - there is a bidding war (akin to apoc) where whoever bids the most points goes first, but their opponent has the opportunity to spend said points on army buffs and stratagems. So imagine this - seize the initiative is no longer a universal rule, but only army specific HQ's (like vect and imotekh) that allow a seize on a particular dice roll (4+ in both cases). Now imagine your opponent has bid 5 points, and you bid zero. You get 5 stratagem points worth of army buffs, he gets none and has to set up first. Then you counter deploy and roll a 4+..guess what? I get all those benefits and still get to shoot first. Based all on speculation, conjecture, and rumors but seems pretty strong overall to me (and lends credence to his "support HQ" role even more so).
IF that rumor is true, that is pretty similar to now, just with more incentive not to take first turn against that kind of army. You see this right now. I'm playing against a Vect list. Roll for first turn. Oh I won? You can take it. Even more true if me 'bidding' for first turn gives you an advantage. What sane player would do that against Vect/Imotekh?
I find the 6th rumor unlikely. After all, what happens if neither player wants first turn and they both bid 0? Probably a roll off.
Sir Harry Flashman, VC wrote:C'tan and Tomb Stalkers now have a good degree of mobility then. Backwards facing monolith, teleport, and bring the pain next turn.
My thoughts exactly. Should be good for getting those vulnerable Scarabs nice and close too.
Sir Harry Flashman, VC wrote:C'tan and Tomb Stalkers now have a good degree of mobility then. Backwards facing monolith, teleport, and bring the pain next turn.
Did you mean tomb spyders, or is there something I've missed about tomb stalkers being added to codex?
Sir Harry Flashman, VC wrote:C'tan and Tomb Stalkers now have a good degree of mobility then. Backwards facing monolith, teleport, and bring the pain next turn.
Did you mean tomb spyders, or is there something I've missed about tomb stalkers being added to codex?
Pretty sure he meant spyders. They are still monstrous creatures with 3 wounds now for cheaper than they were before.. If you can get them over to a tank line they could have some fun.
Sir Harry Flashman, VC wrote:C'tan and Tomb Stalkers now have a good degree of mobility then. Backwards facing monolith, teleport, and bring the pain next turn.
Did you mean tomb spyders, or is there something I've missed about tomb stalkers being added to codex?
Pretty sure he meant spyders. They are still monstrous creatures with 3 wounds now for cheaper than they were before.. If you can get them over to a tank line they could have some fun.
I wish i had bought more than 1 when my FLGS had some in stock! *facepalm*
On the upside, I'll have a reason to buy the shiney new plastic kits when (if?) they release!
Sir Harry Flashman, VC wrote:C'tan and Tomb Stalkers now have a good degree of mobility then. Backwards facing monolith, teleport, and bring the pain next turn.
Did you mean tomb spyders, or is there something I've missed about tomb stalkers being added to codex?
Pretty sure he meant spyders. They are still monstrous creatures with 3 wounds now for cheaper than they were before.. If you can get them over to a tank line they could have some fun.
I'm sure they will, Just got curious as to whether i should be looking for a stalker sometime soon, as they are very nice units when I've faced them.
I've never been happier to own 9 tomb spyders in my life. I loved the model's look, and I liked having cheap MC's. This codex is vindication for going though absolute hell to assemble the dang things. The mold lines... the mold lines...
*shudder*
Anyway, could one of you blessed few codex owners/viewers cover a few unanswered questions I have? Namely, what upgrades can the spyders take? Whips? What is the effect of the repair arm; is it a CCW also?
Necrons have lots of cool toys, but the heart of a 5th ed army is it's troops and transports. Which leads me to an important question: Does anybody know the stats for the gauss flayer array on the ghost arc and doomsday arc?
schadenfreude wrote:Necrons have lots of cool toys, but the heart of a 5th ed army is it's troops and transports. Which leads me to an important question: Does anybody know the stats for the gauss flayer array on the ghost arc and doomsday arc?
I did mean Forgeworld Tomb Stalkers, but thinking about it they would use up valuable HS slots and are very expensive in points. Probably use mine as proxy Triarch stalkers, until they get a model.
Public service announcement for the Ghost Ark/Doomsday Ark: On section iia of the assembly booklet, the numbers 46 and 48 are switched for their appropriate items.
tetrisphreak wrote:
Rumors for 6th edition currently state that there will be no more random first turn - there is a bidding war .
So far, every "6th edition rumor" has been completely ridiculous, just outright asinine. This one is no different.
Ridiculous, yes. But given GW's track record I would say entirely possible. I wouldn't bet a paycheck on any of those rumors, but they should at least be considered.
Zachilles wrote:Anyone else considering a Necron Kong list? 3 Ctan, 9 tomb spiders, Orikan and whatever else fits
I wasn't before.. but if I can get 5 more spyders I'll be set for it and it sounds like a fun list. Deepstrike a couple monoliths and tele the spyders over and have 30 scarabs as well and keep making more! SPYDERS EVERYWHERE!
Completely off topic.. I'm currently converting one of the lords I got in the barge into the one in my banner.. My BA friend will rage and all will be right with the world. (count as destroyer lord)
tetrisphreak wrote:So i've got a rules question (that should probably go to YMDC as of Nov 5 2011, but for now i'll post it here):
Vehicles treat difficult terrain as if it were dangerous, yes? So immediately, the c'tan power that effects all area terrain becomes a 33% chance to immobilize enemy vehicles, just for them trying to move into it. Factor in Orikan the diviner's power, and the enemy has to make a choice on turn 1 - risk immobilizing their vehicles on a roll of 1, or 2, or stay in their deployment zone and wait for the pain.
Do you remember that time that you were inches away from victory in a capture and control game, and at the last minute a venom or raider or land speeder turbo-boosted to just within 3", contesting the objective and costing you a victory? Now with the c'tan in play you can target those skimmers with a tremorstave, and leave them a 1/3 chance to immobilize and become destroyed if they try any shenanigans like this...or you can plan ahead and place your objectives in area terrain to start with.
So the main issue is does the c'tan power affect vehicles, if so, does their dangerous terrain become double-dangerous as per the wording of the rule?
Also in dawn of war you'll kill 33 percent of the enemy's transports before they can even roll on the table. rock.
I think they will have to FAQ the answer when it comes to Orkian's first turn ability and whether it couples with the C'Tan power. The C'Tan power actually says (in my version):
'Whilst the C'tan is on the battlefield, all difficult terrain is also dangerous for the enemy. If the terrain is already dangerous, the Dangerous Terrain test is failed on a 1 or 2.'
Whereas Orkian's rule says:
'During the first turn of the game, all enemy units are treated as moving through difficult terrain...'
So I could see the argument that the C'Tan's power is only affecting actual terrain, but then again I see the opposite argument as well (which is why it needs to be FAQ'd most likely).
Of course the C'Tan power is called 'Writhing Worldscape' and clearly is meant to display the actual world rising up to attack the enemy, which doesn't really make sense for units that simply have to move as though they're in difficult terrain, so I could see GW ruling based on that alone for their FAQ.
And of course, if someone is running that combo and they do rule that it works, you'll just probably see people hold their vehicles in true reserves for Dawn of War missions (so they can't come on in the first turn).
Hasn't there been many many conversations in the past that state "counting as" and "actually being" as two different things? Kinda like how with counter-charge (attack? Assault?) you "count as" charging when assaulted but you don't get a furious charge bonus because you didn't actually charge. Wouldn't the same hold true here where counting difficult terrain as dangerous is not the same as terrain actually BEING dangerous terrain? And in that sense, how would you say the whole board counts as difficult but then counts as dangerous at the same time because of these doubled up abilities? Just seems to me that the qualifier for making the modification is dependent on something BEING and not COUNTING AS.
For instance, I have a 2 dollar bill. This bill counts as two 1 dollar bills. I enter a contest that requires me to have a 1 dollar bill on my person. Can I enter?
Deepstrike a couple monoliths and tele the spyders over and have 30 scarabs as well and keep making more! SPYDERS EVERYWHERE!
Sorry, But didn't I read that Wraiths, Spyders and Scarabs ARE NOT NECRONS and therefore CAN'T be teleported by a Mono?
Still, I can still see a point in taking the Stormlord.
You use his nightfight and Lightning for the first couple of turns to get into range and get everything else set up correctly. Less of a problem moving your Doomsday Arks if you can't see to shoot them anyway, and some of your opponent's squads get hit by lightning.
Once you are ready to strike, turn off the nightfight and hit your opponent hard with Doomsday Arks and the character who can take a Warscythe and take over opponent's vehicles. When your opponent starts grabbing handfulls of dice for his shooting phase, shut it down with a Solar Burst again.
May have a better chance of getting your scarabs into nom-nom range of his remaining vehicles without being told mid battle "But you can't doooo that!" and have to slog them over hte rest of the table.
The Decapitator wrote:I lol'd at this, I wonder if it's going to upset even more people
799.M41 The End of Waaagh! 'Eadcrumpa
Bik Mek 'Eadcrumpa leads his Waaagh! to the newly awakened Tomb Eorld of Suranus. After initial skirmishes proved his still lethargic Necrons to be no match for the Orks. Lord Nepthk strikes a pact with 'Eadcrumpa. In exchange for several dozen functioning Doomsday cannons, 'Eadcrumpa agrees to leave Suranus and seek plunder elsewhere (whilst secretly resolving to return to Suranus at a later date). Three months later, when the Waaagh! descends on the agri world of Eden Prime, 'Eadcrumpa is unable to resist his urge to investigate the Doomsday cannons' systems. One breached containment core later and 'Eadcrumpa, his Waaagh! and the planet Eden Prime are erased from existence.
So my questions are this:
Does this count as flaming?
And how long until the first Necron/Ork bro-mance picture gets posted.
1-2-3......Go!
*Ducks*
Glad to see Mr. Ward has seen The 5th Element too.
Deepstrike a couple monoliths and tele the spyders over and have 30 scarabs as well and keep making more! SPYDERS EVERYWHERE!
Sorry, But didn't I read that Wraiths, Spyders and Scarabs ARE NOT NECRONS and therefore CAN'T be teleported by a Mono?
Still, I can still see a point in taking the Stormlord.
You use his nightfight and Lightning for the first couple of turns to get into range and get everything else set up correctly. Less of a problem moving your Doomsday Arks if you can't see to shoot them anyway, and some of your opponent's squads get hit by lightning.
Once you are ready to strike, turn off the nightfight and hit your opponent hard with Doomsday Arks and the character who can take a Warscythe and take over opponent's vehicles. When your opponent starts grabbing handfulls of dice for his shooting phase, shut it down with a Solar Burst again.
May have a better chance of getting your scarabs into nom-nom range of his remaining vehicles without being told mid battle "But you can't doooo that!" and have to slog them over hte rest of the table.
Conrad, it was pointed out earlier in this thread, that they don't Get Reanimation protocols. Other than that, there is no rule saying what is, and is not a "Necron" So, those units can come through the Portal now.
The Decapitator wrote:'Eadcrumpa is unable to resist his urge to investigate the Doomsday cannons' systems. One breached containment core later and 'Eadcrumpa, his Waaagh! and the planet Eden Prime are erased from existence.
Glad to see Mr. Ward has seen The 5th Element too.
Oh yeah, forgot that no one had ever had the idea of curiousity killing the cat before 5th Element.
Deepstrike a couple monoliths and tele the spyders over and have 30 scarabs as well and keep making more! SPYDERS EVERYWHERE!
Sorry, But didn't I read that Wraiths, Spyders and Scarabs ARE NOT NECRONS and therefore CAN'T be teleported by a Mono?
Still, I can still see a point in taking the Stormlord.
You use his nightfight and Lightning for the first couple of turns to get into range and get everything else set up correctly. Less of a problem moving your Doomsday Arks if you can't see to shoot them anyway, and some of your opponent's squads get hit by lightning.
Once you are ready to strike, turn off the nightfight and hit your opponent hard with Doomsday Arks and the character who can take a Warscythe and take over opponent's vehicles. When your opponent starts grabbing handfulls of dice for his shooting phase, shut it down with a Solar Burst again.
May have a better chance of getting your scarabs into nom-nom range of his remaining vehicles without being told mid battle "But you can't doooo that!" and have to slog them over hte rest of the table.
I think the wording was it can transport non-vehicle friendlies. I'm going to lunch in a minute, I'll check then.
Sasori wrote:Conrad, it was pointed out earlier in this thread, that they don't Get Reanimation protocols. Other than that, there is no rule saying what is, and is not a "Necron" So, those units can come through the Portal now.
My mistake then. And I am glad to be wrong, although I am sure I also read that you can't use the portal to both deliver, and remove units in the same turn, so I think my priorities would be to DS, Str test or die the unit within range that had the most melta, shoot at the same unit if it passes or the next most dangerous unit if it is gone. I would only bring in scarab hoards/spyders if there was no unit in range to remove.
But then again, I have not played since 3rd edition, and certainly can't mathhammer, so this may not be the best way to do things.
That reminds me of another point...are we allowed to chain-teleport now? Our 3rd edition codex explicitly said that we could not, what about now?
starship trooper wrote:
anyone know if Tombe spyders are still in the dex?
With all due respect, but if you just jump in here and do not even bother with looking on the first page of this thread, I do not feel like helping you out either.
Sigvatr wrote:
With all due respect, but if you just jump in here and do not even bother with looking on the first page of this thread, I do not feel like helping you out either.
Its all good. No one said you had to help me out. Thats what LT. Coldfire is for!
GiantSlingshot wrote:Life's a bitch, then your entire planet gets sucked into a singularity. Pretty sure that's how the saying goes.
By the by, it's a mighty good thing for the Galaxy that the Necrons would prefer to Rule nowadays than destroy all life.
1 Doomsday Ark + 1 Warrior with a Bolt Cutter = -1 Planets.
SO much more efficient than Exterminatus.
There is some fluff, about the "Celestial Orrey" that has a light for every star in the Galaxy. If they snuff the light out, the star follows shortly after.
So, they pretty much have the Ultimate weapon in the Galaxy. To bad it's in control of some Hippie Necrons.
I heard a rumour that Imotek could take can upgrade called blood scarabs, and if he put them on a unit Flayed ones could deepstrike and not scatter within 6" is it true?
aboytervigon wrote:I heard a rumour that Imotek could take can upgrade called blood scarabs, and if he put them on a unit Flayed ones could deepstrike and not scatter within 6" is it true?
raknosha wrote:I'm just gonna drop a last thing about destroyers their gauss cannons are only 24" it took me a few to get past that yesterday. Th H. Gauss cannon is still 36"
Wait... what?
When did the Destroyer's guns drop to 24" range? Can anyone with a codex confirm this?
Maybe it's just me but I'm seriously happy about the spyders getting that blast weapon. It's sounding really great to be able to throw those 3 blast's at the enemy from our monstrous creatures. Plus they got some help with a slightly higher ballistic's skill now.
raknosha wrote:I'm just gonna drop a last thing about destroyers their gauss cannons are only 24" it took me a few to get past that yesterday. Th H. Gauss cannon is still 36"
Wait... what?
When did the Destroyer's guns drop to 24" range? Can anyone with a codex confirm this?
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Oh this cant be true. I don't want to accept that it is true. Please tell me that this was someones idea of a cruel trick and that they are still 36"
aboytervigon wrote:I heard a rumour that Imotek could take can upgrade called blood scarabs, and if he put them on a unit Flayed ones could deepstrike and not scatter within 6" is it true?
Well you could read the Bat Rep in WD but I'll just say that's correct.
I really hope the lack of armor denying weapons amog special characters caused by 6ed rules. May be the armor save will be reduced by the strenght of the attacker, like in FB?
Because I cannot come up with any other reasonable explanation...
Fluff: Is there any indication that our "shot-dead" Necrons who failed their RP save are "dematerializing" and the parts are teleported to a secret facility? Same with shot down vehicles...
It was one of the great fluff parts I liked: After the mindless horde of robots has been destroyed, there is nothing left of them.
Lt. Coldfire wrote:
I thought all Tesla weapons were 24"?
They can be equipped with Gauss Weapons that have a range of 36''.
Confusion then. Raknosha says that a Gauss Cannon only has a range of 24", and page 1 says that the barge can be equipped with a Gauss Cannon and says that it has a range of 36".
Someone is trying to play the role of the deceiver here.
GiantSlingshot wrote:So, destroyers are now T5 JI, have 24" assault 2 Str 5 Ap 3 guns, and still cost 40 points.
I'm a bit disappointed. I wasn't planning on fielding them at this point anyway, but it they do seem pretty neutered.
Heavy's still seem pretty solid.
Still cost 40 points? As opposed to the move as jetbike (still can't move over 12" and shoot), T5 36" Str6 AP4 Heavy 3 at 50 points. Uh, I'll take the marine hole punchers over the "that's your heavy hitter?" squad any day. especially at 10 points cheaper.
Lt. Coldfire wrote:
I thought all Tesla weapons were 24"?
They can be equipped with Gauss Weapons that have a range of 36''.
Well, No... they can have Gauss Cannons. Which we just have learned are 24". If they could have Heavy Gauss Cannons, it'd be true. I suppose this also hurts my plans for the A Barges too.
Anyone else think the Nightscythe has a lot more use than the A Barge? 10 points more, But Slotless (granted, you have a unit who can take it as dedicated transport), Fast, one less gun, but is also a transport.
Sasori wrote:
Conrad, it was pointed out earlier in this thread, that they don't Get Reanimation protocols. Other than that, there is no rule saying what is, and is not a "Necron" So, those units can come through the Portal now.
Woah, when was it pointed out that wraiths don't get RP?
How is this supposed to be an elite shooty army with only 2 guns over 36", only 1 at 36"? The imperial guard are literally spitting coffee out of their noses laughing at our "elite shooty lists".
The Decapitator wrote:I'm afraid it's true, the Gauss Cannon has a 24" range.
Man, they really went hard and heavy with that Destroyer nerfing didn't they? The changes in stats I could get over, it's the restricting the number you can field to less than half of what it used to be that still leaves me bitter.
Sasori wrote:
Conrad, it was pointed out earlier in this thread, that they don't Get Reanimation protocols. Other than that, there is no rule saying what is, and is not a "Necron" So, those units can come through the Portal now.
Woah, when was it pointed out that wraiths don't get RP?
A while ago. It seems the C'tan, and anything that's "Canoptek" do not get Reanimation protocols. This Includes Wraiths, Scarabs, and Spyders.
I'm a bit surprised on the Range reduction for the Gauss Cannon, it's still a pretty decent weapon though.
An Elite shooting army that's 24' is pretty unique.
How's the codex feeling overall, to those that are lucky to have one?
EDIT
Man, they really went hard and heavy with that Destroyer nerfing didn't they? The changes in stats I could get over, it's the restricting the number you can field to less than half of what it used to be that still leaves me bitter.
Destroyers are 1-5 now, in the codex, and you can swap up to 3 out for Heavy Destroyers. So no worries there Aduro!
Arandmoor wrote:Just pointing out that "elite shooty" =/= "long range"
Tau are *the* long range army.
Necrons shoot better.
Always been this way.
Tau? Seriously? Tau aren't in the top5 of shooty armies. They're outdated and uncompetitive. Necrons on the other hand aren't outdated anymore but still don't seem to be too competitive.
Arandmoor wrote:Just pointing out that "elite shooty" =/= "long range"
Tau are *the* long range army.
Necrons shoot better.
Always been this way.
I'd like to counter-point that you're wrong on both counts. Tau pale in comparison to most IG lists, and Necrons shoot no better than tau in their current form.
"elite shooty" means either they are small expensive units that are very shooty, or they are the premier shooty army. I see neither out of this codex. All shooting besides the barge/ark seems to be nerfed in at least range, and type of shot (so much rapid fire).
Sasori wrote:
Conrad, it was pointed out earlier in this thread, that they don't Get Reanimation protocols. Other than that, there is no rule saying what is, and is not a "Necron" So, those units can come through the Portal now.
Woah, when was it pointed out that wraiths don't get RP?
About 4-5 pages ago, if you use the nifty little thread filter below my name you will bring up all my posts in this thread. I posted the info (along with other users) about 10 or so of my posts ago.
Wraiths, Scarabs and Spyders all now have the prefix 'Canotep' to their name marking out that they are not actually Necrons (which had previously been Necrontyr) but are in fact machines built by the Necrons to protect the Tomb Workda. Because of this they obviously deemed them not important enough to give them RP, probably thinking they can just build more if needed.
The Monolith can transport ANY friendly non-vehicle unit. So everything in the Codex which has a Toughness/Wounds value.
Sasori wrote:
Conrad, it was pointed out earlier in this thread, that they don't Get Reanimation protocols. Other than that, there is no rule saying what is, and is not a "Necron" So, those units can come through the Portal now.
Woah, when was it pointed out that wraiths don't get RP?
A while ago. It seems the C'tan, and anything that's "Canoptek" do not get Reanimation protocols. This Includes Wraiths, Scarabs, and Spyders.
Unless "a while ago" is in the last 24 hours, I have NOT seen that to be true. It's listed no where on the first page either.
Every army's different. I don't really see to much issue with a limited range of 24" I've never had a hard time getting to shoot what I wanted. Not to mention that we still have access to veils, monoliths, transports, jump troops. Also considering we have tons of ways to make the enemy have a terrible time returning fire or assaulting units with things like c'tan and crypteks.
Oh and a lot of people seem to be forgetting about the eldritch lance, harp and the tremorstave.
chipstar1 wrote:
Unless "a while ago" is in the last 24 hours, I have NOT seen that to be true. It's listed no where on the first page either.
Decap, thanks for pointing me. It was 9:30 this morning, which I guess is "a while ago" to some people. Either way, that is a pretty significant hit to wraiths.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I thought it was originally confirmed that scarabs got RP/WBB, as well...
Sasori wrote:
Conrad, it was pointed out earlier in this thread, that they don't Get Reanimation protocols. Other than that, there is no rule saying what is, and is not a "Necron" So, those units can come through the Portal now.
Woah, when was it pointed out that wraiths don't get RP?
A while ago. It seems the C'tan, and anything that's "Canoptek" do not get Reanimation protocols. This Includes Wraiths, Scarabs, and Spyders.
Unless "a while ago" is in the last 24 hours, I have NOT seen that to be true. It's listed no where on the first page either.
It was first posted on Warseer a Day or two ago. Several other people (Such as the Decapitaor) that have their codex have confirmed this.
That seems to be the size of it... I'm baffled myself because one of the big advantages before was fast shooty flankers (destroyers) and an implacable moving horde that had vg saves and WBB.
Now... flankers that can't shoot for gak at range AND have one less shot, and warriors that have a worse save and possibly a worse WBB.
I don't understand what we are supposed to do - close to 24", which for one round will get shots off - then assaulted and wrecked?
The Decapitator wrote:I'm afraid it's true, the Gauss Cannon has a 24" range.
Other than the Doomsday Cannon which is 72", the Heavy Gauss Cannon which is 36" and the Tachyon Arrow which has an 'Infinite' range, the longest ranged weapon is indeed 24".
I hadn't noticed that before, but pretty strange for an army described as 'an Elite Shooty Army' by the guy who wrote the Codex.
Heavy Gauss Cannons are 36" though, eh?
Edit: My mistake, forgot about the Heavy Gauss Cannon. Thanks for the correction!
chunky_baby wrote:That seems to be the size of it... I'm baffled myself because one of the big advantages before was fast shooty flankers (destroyers) and an implacable moving horde that had vg saves and WBB.
Now... flankers that can't shoot for gak at range AND have one less shot, and warriors that have a worse save and possibly a worse WBB.
I don't understand what we are supposed to do - close to 24", which for one round will get shots off - then assaulted and wrecked?
Most infantry don't have a charge range of 24"...it's usually 18" (well for fleet and jump infantry, who are traditionally the necron's greatest threats), and even then you should be able to stay out of the way for a few turns.
aboytervigon wrote:To be fair they needed the nerf a unit of 5 destroyers with 36" guns is pretty insane for 40 points.
Agreed, 36" would be too much.
To those complaining about new Destroyers: in comparison to the previous codex, I don't think Destroyers have been nerfed at all. AP3 is a magic number. You can't expect to start treating power armor like a burlap sack without making a few concessions first.
The "elite shooty army" has a true effective range of 24", similar to Grey Knights. The difference is, GK can fight back in close combat. We move up to 24" to shoot more than our pop-shot lascannon and expensive barge, we then get assaulted and GG.
Or we try to sit back and weaken a shooty army with our 3 possible 36"+ guns, get picked apart by Manticores during nightfight, and GG.
I'm really trying not to be overdramatic, but I see Necron's having the same insta-lose vs rock (of rock paper scissors) matches that dark eldar do.
Did the Tomb Stalker get no love? As far as I saw in my brief flip-through of the White Dwarf, it was not mentioned, and I don't think anyone in this thread has mentioned it being listed in the Codex...
Seems like it would be a shame, since the model is pretty awesome-looking, and actually not a terrible price (in a money cost-to-points cost ratio sense). I had thought about converting one just for fun also, but if it's kinda being left out in the cold, should I bother?
And as an afterthought, what about the Pylon? It's so old, I'm not sure if it would need entirely new rules or what. At least the Tomb Stalker was made recently enough that surely FW and whoever makes the rules for those models would have known the Newcrons were in the pipeline.
This 24" Gauss Cannon range detail is ... unsettling
On the other hand, being able to teleport Destroyers through a Monolith (which likely just deep striked somewhere close to the enemy) is quite handy
Ah but as it's now an Assault weapon it now means move, shoot and then let your enemy move it's 18" toward you fail to make the assault then you shoot again and then assault them.
Win, win in my book, or I may just misunderstand the bonus here?
catharsix wrote:Did the Tomb Stalker get no love? As far as I saw in my brief flip-through of the White Dwarf, it was not mentioned, and I don't think anyone in this thread has mentioned it being listed in the Codex...
Seems like it would be a shame, since the model is pretty awesome-looking, and actually not a terrible price (in a money cost-to-points cost ratio sense). I had thought about converting one just for fun also, but if it's kinda being left out in the cold, should I bother?
And as an afterthought, what about the Pylon? It's so old, I'm not sure if it would need entirely new rules or what. At least the Tomb Stalker was made recently enough that surely FW and whoever makes the rules for those models would have known the Newcrons were in the pipeline.
Sadly, the Tomb Stalker is not in the Codex. I was hoping it would be, but it's not. On the Brightside, we got some new shiny toys in the Heavy Support slot.
If the sales go well, Perhaps the New crons will get some more FW love.
To be fair they needed the nerf a unit of 5 destroyers with 36" guns is pretty insane for 40 points.
Well, they're mobile but everything in this game is meched up so there's not much benefit from that AP3. When I see walking Marines they're stuff like BA Devastators in an FNP bubble with cover saves, and Destroyers can't do s**t against them (200 points of Destroyers kill 1,38 Marines per turn). In return though I've no doubt most lists are very happy to blast at those Destroyer units and drop entire units in a phase so they don't even get to reanimate. Stuff like PBS squads are a nightmare as well since the IG just need to kill a guy and then autobreak them.
We'll need to see some complete tournament lists made out of the Necron book before passing judgment but it doesn't look too good. So much stuff in the Necron book has rock hard counters to them and unfortunately many of these counters are wildly popular.
I don't understand what we are supposed to do - close to 24", which for one round will get shots off - then assaulted and wrecked?
That seems to be it. All the imperial lists mech up to avoid getting tabled in two turns by DE poison weapon spam (and SW Long Fangs are often in trouble and require all kinds of Razorback screens to survive) but for the Necrons that doesn't seem to be a viable option. Dark Eldar look like a tough matchup for any type of Necron list. IG lists on the other hand outshoot and outrange the Necrons so bad (+ PBS squad shenanigans) that I really doubt there's any way to cram in enough guns or tricks to the Necron army to deal with ~15 AV12 chassis in 1750 points. Grey Knights, Space Wolves and Blood Angels on the other hand all have so tough tournament builds that Necrons wont compete. They can make lists that outshoot the Necrons and counter-charge anything that comes to 24" and blows right through them. For example a standard SW shooty list with Razorback squads and 3 Long Fang squads lead by a TWC lord/squad or two who are just hanging back waiting for enemy survivors to straggle through. They both outshoot and outfight their robot opponents. Likewise, I played my Grey Knights with 6 Chimera henchmen squads, 3 Razorbacked Purifier units and 3 Psyflemen Dreads and just shot stuff to bits and finished the stragglers with the Purifiers and HQ units in close combat. Of course I played the same style with BA, doing a meched up shooty list with FNP Devastators, and kept Mephiston hanging back and hiding between transports for counter charge. He can be supported with FNP and a some furious charging meched up AM against chaff units like poisoning Gaunts. Necrons will just lose combat and with their poor initiative and no fearless/atsknf get the whole unit wiped out after every combat. Again the reanimation protocol does nothing.
Needless to say, I can't see Necrons competing since they aren't particularly good in anything and are outright horrible in other things. Of course being competitive has different meanings to different players. To me a competitive army can win a no composition scoring GT with no more luck than your opponents and not requiring your opponents to be complete donks every game.
Please, I've (we've) been dealing with the 24" range cap on 90% of our guns previously, I think I can deal with it now with much better guns at our disposal.
Stop making a big deal out of this 24" range thing. It's really not as bad as you think it is.
Heavy gauss cannons, the Eldrich lance, and tachyon arrows can cover long range, but with the night fight shenanigans that necrons can dish out, we should be able to get into that 24 inch range and do some serious damage.
Stormlord aside, 2 solar pulses can really set your opponents shooting back, while assault armies have to come to you.
There seems to be conflicting information about the Causs Cannon range. Thisis from the first page summary:
Annihilation Barge: Described as anti-infantry support platforms. Variant of the Catacomb Command Barge. One per FOC slot taken. Open-topped, non-fast skimmer, AV11, Quantum Shielding, Living Metal. Has a twin-linked Tesla Destructor & a Tesla Cannon, but can upgrade the cannon to a Gauss Cannon. Not exactly sure why you'd want to do that except for the extra range (36" for the Gauss Cannon as opposed to all Tesla weapons which are 24" range). 90 points, confirmed in WD 382.
The tomb stalker is a nice model, and awesome combat monster, it is not a part of the codex as such but is kept in imperial armour which can still be used in most friendly games. As it is designed to be used in normal games as well as in apocalypse, about the pylon, they might give it a minor change eventually but I think that any player can just take the old wordings into the new codex, and be glad that it still has an awesome str d anti aircraft
Edit: I can say for sure that I double checked it as I saw it yesterday... About the gauss cannon range, what is on the front page is outdated
ojve wrote:There seems to be conflicting information about the Causs Cannon range. Thisis from the first page summary:
Annihilation Barge: Described as anti-infantry support platforms. Variant of the Catacomb Command Barge. One per FOC slot taken. Open-topped, non-fast skimmer, AV11, Quantum Shielding, Living Metal. Has a twin-linked Tesla Destructor & a Tesla Cannon, but can upgrade the cannon to a Gauss Cannon. Not exactly sure why you'd want to do that except for the extra range (36" for the Gauss Cannon as opposed to all Tesla weapons which are 24" range). 90 points, confirmed in WD 382.
The new information is coming from people that have the Codex. The first page summary is from a playtest version. There have been some significant changes since then, but most of the first pages information is still accurate.
Dark Eldar have a 26.99" assault threat radius. 12" Raider, 2.99" deployment, 6" Fleet, 6" assault. Roll a 1 for combat drugs and its going to be worse.
Thunderwolf Calvary have a 24" assault threat radius. 6" move, 6" Fleet, 12" assault.
Winged Demon Princes/Bugs have a 24" assault threat radius. 12" Move, 6" Fleet, 6" Assault.
Grey Knights have a 24" shooting range threat radius. They are designed to kill things that come into their threat bubble.
This doesn't go into how even the slow marines will roll up 12", get out, and then rapid-fire you to death at 24".
24" is a magical number that is an enormous game changer. It's like psiflemen becoming S8. The difference between S8 and S7 is enormous. So is the difference between 24" and 36".
chipstar1 wrote:Dark Eldar have a 26.99" assault threat radius. 12" Raider, 2.99" deployment, 6" Fleet, 6" assault. Roll a 1 for combat drugs and its going to be worse.
Thunderwolf Calvary have a 24" assault threat radius. 6" move, 6" Fleet, 12" assault.
Winged Demon Princes/Bugs have a 24" assault threat radius. 12" Move, 6" Fleet, 6" Assault.
Grey Knights have a 24" shooting range threat radius. They are designed to kill things that come into their threat bubble.
This doesn't go into how even the slow marines will roll up 12", get out, and then rapid-fire you to death at 24".
24" is a magical number that is an enormous game changer. It's like psiflemen becoming S8. The difference between S8 and S7 is enormous. So is the difference between 24" and 36".
I hate to say this but Demon Princes don't have fleet nor do Tyranids have a 24" charge threat, aside a Tervigon poopin out gaunts. But then again...it's gaunts.
chipstar1 wrote:Dark Eldar have a 26.99" assault threat radius. 12" Raider, 2.99" deployment, 6" Fleet, 6" assault. Roll a 1 for combat drugs and its going to be worse.
Thunderwolf Calvary have a 24" assault threat radius. 6" move, 6" Fleet, 12" assault.
Winged Demon Princes/Bugs have a 24" assault threat radius. 12" Move, 6" Fleet, 6" Assault.
Grey Knights have a 24" shooting range threat radius. They are designed to kill things that come into their threat bubble.
This doesn't go into how even the slow marines will roll up 12", get out, and then rapid-fire you to death at 24".
24" is a magical number that is an enormous game changer. It's like psiflemen becoming S8. The difference between S8 and S7 is enormous. So is the difference between 24" and 36".
I hate to say this but Demon Princes don't have fleet nor do Tyranids have a 24" charge threat, unless gargoyles have it but still, it's gargoyles....
TWC have fleet? Really?
And it should be 2" deployment for the DE, not 3".
chipstar1 wrote:Dark Eldar have a 26.99" assault threat radius. 12" Raider, 2.99" deployment, 6" Fleet, 6" assault. Roll a 1 for combat drugs and its going to be worse.
Thunderwolf Calvary have a 24" assault threat radius. 6" move, 6" Fleet, 12" assault.
Winged Demon Princes/Bugs have a 24" assault threat radius. 12" Move, 6" Fleet, 6" Assault.
Grey Knights have a 24" shooting range threat radius. They are designed to kill things that come into their threat bubble.
This doesn't go into how even the slow marines will roll up 12", get out, and then rapid-fire you to death at 24".
24" is a magical number that is an enormous game changer. It's like psiflemen becoming S8. The difference between S8 and S7 is enormous. So is the difference between 24" and 36".
I agree with this... it's not so much the fact that 1 turn will even get you assaulted as I agree that few units will be able to do it - it's more that in order to "shoot" effectively you have to be able to do so for more than 1 turn.
Even moving into range and then somehow backpedaling (which I used to do ALL the time before with Necrons) you are still going to be assaulted by most of the army in the next turn.
I don't think MW meant "Elite shooty army for ONE turn".
Or maybe he did... who knows lol.
Either way - I'll work on tactics around it, but it's disappointing. He seems to have meddled with units that were ok before, and made them worse while throwing in "bells and whistles" that are mainly gimmicks.
Dark Eldar have a 26.99" assault threat radius. 12" Raider, 2.99" deployment, 6" Fleet, 6" assault. Roll a 1 for combat drugs and its going to be worse.
Not All Dark Eldar units have fleet, and of those that do, the only concern would be Wyches. And if they don't roll well enough on their fleet roll (which is far more likely) Then they are going to be shot to death.
Thunderwolf Calvary have a 24" assault threat radius. 6" move, 6" Fleet, 12" assault.
While the total threat range is 24' you are really counting on rolling a 6 on these fleet rolls a lot. In addition, this is only one unit in the codex.
Winged Demon Princes/Bugs have a 24" assault threat radius. 12" Move, 6" Fleet, 6" Assault.
None of the Jump Infantry in the Tyranid Codex have fleet. I imagine it's the same with Winged Daemon princes.
Grey Knights have a 24" shooting range threat radius. They are designed to kill things that come into their threat bubble.
You can say the same thing about the Necrons.
This doesn't go into how even the slow marines will roll up 12", get out, and then rapid-fire you to death at 24".
Easier said than done.
24" is a magical number that is an enormous game changer. It's like psiflemen becoming S8. The difference between S8 and S7 is enormous. So is the difference between 24" and 36".
It is a Tough Number, but we'll have to see how it plays out on the Tabletop. Sometimes things that look Bad/Good on Paper, preform a lot better together as an Army.
And it should be 2" deployment for the DE, not 3".
New to the game right? You add the size of the base to the 2" since only the edge of the base has to be within 2".
It's an open topped vehicle, I thought you measured 2' from the Hull with those.
I've no idea what you're talking about. When the edge of a model's base is within 2" of a vehicle, the model is within 2" and legally placed. Now when the infantry guy starts moving you measure from the other side of the base and since the base is 1" wide you gain that 1". That's why chip said they disembark 2.99".
You're right about the demon prince. Give it lash though, which has a .... range.
All beasts have fleet, per the rulebook. That includes TWC.
When deploying from a transport, only the edge of your base needs to be in the 2" deployment zone. Since a base is 1", deployment zone is 2", your effective deployment range is ideally 2.999".
What is "easier said than done" when it comes to a unit moving 12" in a rhino/razorback/chimera/land raider, pivoting, deploying models 2.999", and rapidfiring S4 weapons? There is no random d6 roll, no guessing range. Transports 101 IMHO.
Sasori, I agree that we need to see things on the table. I'm obviously being a sensationalist here, but my gut tells me that I'm correct, and xenos will continue to be second tier behind SW, IG, BA, GK. The Emperor protects.
And it should be 2" deployment for the DE, not 3".
New to the game right? You add the size of the base to the 2" since only the edge of the base has to be within 2".
It's an open topped vehicle, I thought you measured 2' from the Hull with those.
I've no idea what you're talking about. When the edge of a model's base is within 2" of a vehicle, the model is within 2" and legally placed. Now when the infantry guy starts moving you measure from the other side of the base and since the base is 1" wide you gain that 1". That's why chip said they disembark 2.99".
Ok, I get what you are saying now. I was thinking "Vehicle Base" When you said Base.
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Therion:
The mental proficiency deficient like yourself posting ridiculous unsubstantiated nonsense like this are why many people are sacred away from playing the game.
People said silly crap like that when the DE book was coming and then Dash proceeded to become one of the top generals in the world with that same book.
I love how some moron whose never played a single game with the codex thinks they know more then the team of play testers who have been working on the thing for years.
I actually just created a handle on a site that I've been trolling for awhile now just to point out the silliness in your though processes. You have awakened me from my tomb world and I'm displeased yet amused.
So your amazingly awesome pwnzer gwnzer GK's and live and dia at 24" but the poor Necrons are going to get Beech Pwned because they have no CC abilities? Yeah that silly little Lord with his retinue of power weapon wielding 4+ reflection shield bearing guys, no worries. And that giant shard of a God with 7 strength and toughness...easy sauce.
You've won a few games with cookie cuter lists you copied off the Internet created by people much smarter then you? Grats buddy, are they still making medals for such accomplishments?
I'm seeing a lot of generalizations the page couple pages about how things were nerfed and the world is on fire....
Let me just say that you should wait till you have the codex in your hands. There are so many little tricks to mess up the enemy movement and shooting.
Necrons aren't going to be the easiest army to play, but should be very fun and some what competitive. Worried about people charging you? Take some tremor staves! 36" S4 small blast that if it hits at all makes them move through cover next turn and that cryptek will only run you 40 points. So many little things like that that will mess up the awesome 24" charge bubble.. I mean heck we have a character that can move 12" in the movement phase over a vehicle and do 3 S7 2D6 pen attacks on the rear, during the shooting phase take over another vehicle and fire all it's weapons then in the assault phase charge another vehicle for 4 S8 2D6 pen attacks.
I don't think it will be that bad with the range. In regards to taking out things like Long Fangs/Devastors or other small heavy weapon squads you can easily do that with Wraiths or the new Destroyers.. Same goes for using the Destroyers to pop transports with the Heavy Cannons, or even using the normal ones to glance the crap out of any other vechicle. If someone does manage to get close enough you can use Wraiths/Lychguard/Praetorians for a count assault unit or put them in the way. When it comes to Eldar, they may be faster, but they have lower strength. Wyches would hit a necron unit on a 4+ and need to roll a 5+ to wound, they may have 20+ attacks.
For example. 10 Wyches(going with no upgrades right now) on the charge would be 30 attacks.
Against 10 Immortals they would get 15 hits and 5 wounds on average and end up killing 1.667 models before Reanimation rolls. With a Lord with rez orb they would not even manage to kill 1 Immortal.
The 10 Immortals would then hit back at WS4 S4 and would hit 5 out of 10 times, with 3.3 wounds caused and the Wyches lose 1.667 models. Without a chance to get back up. Obviously this could go different ways depending on Wych loadout and drug rolls. With a lesser lord in there chances are the Wyches might actually be the ones to lose the combat, especially with wound allocating to a Lord with a 2+/3++/4+++.
I think the biggest unit to worry about in melee from Dark Eldar are Incubi seeing as they have S4 Power weapons and a higher WS than Wyches/Bloodbrides, but beyond that I think Necrons would be fine in resisting the CC department.
Marines would be a different story, especially with Grey Knights though and I could definitly see Necrons having far more trouble against them than any other CC based army. And that is mostly due to them all having power weapons and +S psychic powers which Necrons do not have much defense against enless you are Spyder Spamming.
Him and a few select games designers After you've finished designing a codex and have completed playtesting it, you run it through one of two templates. Imperial (buffed across the board) or Xenos (nerfed in random ways that make no sense) and then it's shipped to the public.
Pete Haines made a monster of a non-imperium book (the old Chaos with Siren Princes, daemonbombs and IW). I think he was either fired or ran out of town later
You've won a few games with cookie cuter lists you copied off the Internet created by people much smarter then you? Grats buddy, are they still making medals for such accomplishments?
I've won much more than that and stayed undefeated for years while being active on the tournament circuit. Good thing you created a new handle just to flame me anonymously without even knowing who you're talking to. Naturally you don't care. You're a random Necron player who beats his little brother and some fat kid from his 'local shop' with his junk lists and seemingly got incredibly offended when someone who actually knows what kinds of lists win major tournaments said he doesn't approve of the Necrons? I said previously that the Necrons might be competitive and fun enough for people who play against normal lists and don't need to play against cut-throat armies and players. If you like the new Necrons, I'm happy for you, but if you think you have what it takes to beat the best with them I suggest you go out there and prove it instead of making new handles to rage with.
It's funny that it's allowed for people to circle jerk to rumours and post about their wild plans to take over the tournament world, but it's not allowed to try to bring people down to earth. The usual angry reply is 'how can you make such statements when the codex is not even out' with a few insults added on top. Seriously, the skill cap and depth in this game is so low that it's not exactly hard to see if an army will be highly competitive or not if you've won a GT or three.
This 24" Gauss Cannon range detail is ... unsettling
On the other hand, being able to teleport Destroyers through a Monolith (which likely just deep striked somewhere close to the enemy) is quite handy
The Monolith doesn't have any protection from DS Mishaps, so good luck to you and your attempts to DS is anywhere near your opponents.
For weeks now I've been following this thread, looking for even just one or two things in the new codex that I would be impressed with. And honestly, with everything even remotely interesting I've read about, there seem to be far too many caveats. Every single time a common threat is discussed, it seems to take 2 or more Necron units to deal with it. So unless Necrons are allowed to field double the points that their opponents are able to, I'm seeing almost no competitiveness in this codex. Any given singular threat requires an entire army build to counter it, and any given clever combination or idea with Necrons seems to have a "...but it won't work it that way " attached to it.
Basically, this codex is starting to feel like it's all based around the meta-analysis of the Nightbringer: it's appealing on the surface to people that don't play much, but underneath that veneer is something that nobody will ever use competitively.
Or maybe I just need coffee to shake of this pessimism.
The mental proficiency deficient like yourself posting ridiculous unsubstantiated nonsense like this are why many people are sacred away from playing the game.
People said silly crap like that when the DE book was coming and then Dash proceeded to become one of the top generals in the world with that same book.
I love how some moron whose never played a single game with the codex thinks they know more then the team of play testers who have been working on the thing for years.
I actually just created a handle on a site that I've been trolling for awhile now just to point out the silliness in your though processes. You have awakened me from my tomb world and I'm displeased yet amused.
So your amazingly awesome pwnzer gwnzer GK's and live and dia at 24" but the poor Necrons are going to get Beech Pwned because they have no CC abilities? Yeah that silly little Lord with his retinue of power weapon wielding 4+ reflection shield bearing guys, no worries. And that giant shard of a God with 7 strength and toughness...easy sauce.
You've won a few games with cookie cuter lists you copied off the Internet created by people much smarter then you? Grats buddy, are they still making medals for such accomplishments?
same here but i have to wait for saturday 
and yup jelous 
" attached to it.