22761
Post by: Kurgash
ShadarLogoth wrote:Therion:
The mental proficiency deficient like yourself posting ridiculous unsubstantiated nonsense like this are why many people are sacred away from playing the game.
People said silly crap like that when the DE book was coming and then Dash proceeded to become one of the top generals in the world with that same book.
I love how some moron whose never played a single game with the codex thinks they know more then the team of play testers who have been working on the thing for years.
I actually just created a handle on a site that I've been trolling for awhile now just to point out the silliness in your though processes. You have awakened me from my tomb world and I'm displeased yet amused.
So your amazingly awesome pwnzer gwnzer GK's and live and dia at 24" but the poor Necrons are going to get Beech Pwned because they have no CC abilities? Yeah that silly little Lord with his retinue of power weapon wielding 4+ reflection shield bearing guys, no worries. And that giant shard of a God with 7 strength and toughness...easy sauce.
You've won a few games with cookie cuter lists you copied off the Internet created by people much smarter then you? Grats buddy, are they still making medals for such accomplishments?
43273
Post by: chipstar1
Marshal_Hadrial wrote:I don't think it will be that bad with the range. In regards to taking out things like Long Fangs/Devastors or other small heavy weapon squads you can easily do that with Wraiths or the new Destroyers.. Same goes for using the Destroyers to pop transports with the Heavy Cannons, or even using the normal ones to glance the crap out of any other vechicle. If someone does manage to get close enough you can use Wraiths/Lychguard/Praetorians for a count assault unit or put them in the way. When it comes to Eldar, they may be faster, but they have lower strength. Wyches would hit a necron unit on a 4+ and need to roll a 5+ to wound, they may have 20+ attacks.
For example. 10 Wyches(going with no upgrades right now) on the charge would be 30 attacks.
Against 10 Immortals they would get 15 hits and 5 wounds on average and end up killing 1.667 models before Reanimation rolls. With a Lord with rez orb they would not even manage to kill 1 Immortal.
The 10 Immortals would then hit back at WS4 S4 and would hit 5 out of 10 times, with 3.3 wounds caused and the Wyches lose 1.667 models. Without a chance to get back up. Obviously this could go different ways depending on Wych loadout and drug rolls. With a lesser lord in there chances are the Wyches might actually be the ones to lose the combat, especially with wound allocating to a Lord with a 2+/3++/4+++.
I think the biggest unit to worry about in melee from Dark Eldar are Incubi seeing as they have S4 Power weapons and a higher WS than Wyches/Bloodbrides, but beyond that I think Necrons would be fine in resisting the CC department.
Marines would be a different story, especially with Grey Knights though and I could definitly see Necrons having far more trouble against them than any other CC based army. And that is mostly due to them all having power weapons and +S psychic powers which Necrons do not have much defense against enless you are Spyder Spamming.
You will have trouble taking out LF/ Dev's with Destroyers, because they will be in cover. They will still get a 4++ save. Furthermore, getting within 24" of the almost-always rear line of a space marine army means every other thing in his list is rapid-firing at you. GG destroyers.
How are your lychguard/praetorians keeping up with jump infantry? They'll be left scambling behind while your destroyers jump up to get within effective range.
People continue to value wyches as an elite CC unit. As everyones favorite blogger Dash says, they are ***not*** an elite cc unit. They are a tarpit unit. They have no power weapons, and need 5's to wound almost anything.
Against anything in power armor, you're toast. Stats are either equal or worse, and that makes for a losing battle. You'll strike second, you'll be missing a hidden PF, you'll have a worse save. How do you win a CC against any marine army with immortals? Oh, and they pistol drilled you before assaulting. How are your assault 2 guns? Oh, they're rapid fire now. Whoops.
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Post by: Sigvatr
About the "poor CC" argument: keep in mind that we can also assign lords to our normal squads thus potentially improving their CC power. A Warscythe lord with a Regenerator in an Immortal unit certainly is better than before when we just had the normal unit.
And about people discussing the competitive value...first of all, there weren't any games with the new codex yet, give it some time. Secondly, what were you guys expecting? Necrons are xenos, they aren't SM. Don't expect too much. If I was hoping for a ridiculously overpowered and cheesy codex, I'd have sold my Necrons and started playing Grey Knights.
47547
Post by: CthuluIsSpy
chipstar1 wrote:Marshal_Hadrial wrote:I don't think it will be that bad with the range. In regards to taking out things like Long Fangs/Devastors or other small heavy weapon squads you can easily do that with Wraiths or the new Destroyers.. Same goes for using the Destroyers to pop transports with the Heavy Cannons, or even using the normal ones to glance the crap out of any other vechicle. If someone does manage to get close enough you can use Wraiths/Lychguard/Praetorians for a count assault unit or put them in the way. When it comes to Eldar, they may be faster, but they have lower strength. Wyches would hit a necron unit on a 4+ and need to roll a 5+ to wound, they may have 20+ attacks.
For example. 10 Wyches(going with no upgrades right now) on the charge would be 30 attacks.
Against 10 Immortals they would get 15 hits and 5 wounds on average and end up killing 1.667 models before Reanimation rolls. With a Lord with rez orb they would not even manage to kill 1 Immortal.
The 10 Immortals would then hit back at WS4 S4 and would hit 5 out of 10 times, with 3.3 wounds caused and the Wyches lose 1.667 models. Without a chance to get back up. Obviously this could go different ways depending on Wych loadout and drug rolls. With a lesser lord in there chances are the Wyches might actually be the ones to lose the combat, especially with wound allocating to a Lord with a 2+/3++/4+++.
I think the biggest unit to worry about in melee from Dark Eldar are Incubi seeing as they have S4 Power weapons and a higher WS than Wyches/Bloodbrides, but beyond that I think Necrons would be fine in resisting the CC department.
Marines would be a different story, especially with Grey Knights though and I could definitly see Necrons having far more trouble against them than any other CC based army. And that is mostly due to them all having power weapons and +S psychic powers which Necrons do not have much defense against enless you are Spyder Spamming.
You will have trouble taking out LF/ Dev's with Destroyers, because they will be in cover. They will still get a 4++ save. Furthermore, getting within 24" of the almost-always rear line of a space marine army means every other thing in his list is rapid-firing at you. GG destroyers.
How are your lychguard/praetorians keeping up with jump infantry? They'll be left scambling behind while your destroyers jump up to get within effective range.
People continue to value wyches as an elite CC unit. As everyones favorite blogger Dash says, they are ***not*** an elite cc unit. They are a tarpit unit. They have no power weapons, and need 5's to wound almost anything.
Against anything in power armor, you're toast. Stats are either equal or worse, and that makes for a losing battle. You'll strike second, you'll be missing a hidden PF, you'll have a worse save. How do you win a CC against any marine army with immortals? Oh, and they pistol drilled you before assaulting. How are your assault 2 guns? Oh, they're rapid fire now. Whoops.
Yes they do. The hekatrix can take a power weapon or an agonizer.
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Post by: tautemplar
It seems to me that expensive as he is, the stormlord will be quite mandatory for any army I want to use; but then again, I'm a little crazy.
But I dunno the ability to do random str 8 hits to the side armor of transports seems likes its pretty win to me, especially because statistically you can keep it up for 3 turns. But if you take a standard imperial guard parking lot army that has 20+ vehicles, then statistically you're going to hit 3 each turn and considering most of them have 10 side armor this could be really fun for you.
I was also planning to use a destroyer lord with a res orb and 6 wraiths but seeing as how wraiths have no RP this seems less practical; I'll probably just end up swarming them with 30 scarab bases and hoping for the best.
But I'm thinking I may end up with a stormlord in a barge, 3 monoliths with a master of flame c'tan floating smack in the middle of em, surrounded by scarabs and 2-3 warrior groups hanging back waiting it out while the lord shoot tachyon arrows at whatever vehicles are left after I bring down the thunder. Sure I'll get slaughtered in close combat but atleast the large blast templates from the monoliths will be very helpful against paladins, thunderwolves, and any other elite assaulters that might happen by.
Think this might be a decent strategy?
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Post by: BarBoBot
@ chipstar: Praetorians are jump infantry right?
26697
Post by: Lt. Coldfire
ShadarLogoth wrote:Therion:
The mental proficiency deficient like yourself posting ridiculous unsubstantiated nonsense like this are why many people are sacred away from playing the game.
People said silly crap like that when the DE book was coming and then Dash proceeded to become one of the top generals in the world with that same book.
I love how some moron whose never played a single game with the codex thinks they know more then the team of play testers who have been working on the thing for years.
I actually just created a handle on a site that I've been trolling for awhile now just to point out the silliness in your though processes. You have awakened me from my tomb world and I'm displeased yet amused.
So your amazingly awesome pwnzer gwnzer GK's and live and dia at 24" but the poor Necrons are going to get Beech Pwned because they have no CC abilities? Yeah that silly little Lord with his retinue of power weapon wielding 4+ reflection shield bearing guys, no worries. And that giant shard of a God with 7 strength and toughness...easy sauce.
You've won a few games with cookie cuter lists you copied off the Internet created by people much smarter then you? Grats buddy, are they still making medals for such accomplishments?
I don't think what Therion has said has been THAT bad.
Sure, he was taking shots at the codex 28 days before release date, but we all have an accidental boner from time to time.
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Post by: chipstar1
CthuluIsSpy wrote:chipstar1 wrote:Marshal_Hadrial wrote:I don't think it will be that bad with the range. In regards to taking out things like Long Fangs/Devastors or other small heavy weapon squads you can easily do that with Wraiths or the new Destroyers.. Same goes for using the Destroyers to pop transports with the Heavy Cannons, or even using the normal ones to glance the crap out of any other vechicle. If someone does manage to get close enough you can use Wraiths/Lychguard/Praetorians for a count assault unit or put them in the way. When it comes to Eldar, they may be faster, but they have lower strength. Wyches would hit a necron unit on a 4+ and need to roll a 5+ to wound, they may have 20+ attacks.
For example. 10 Wyches(going with no upgrades right now) on the charge would be 30 attacks.
Against 10 Immortals they would get 15 hits and 5 wounds on average and end up killing 1.667 models before Reanimation rolls. With a Lord with rez orb they would not even manage to kill 1 Immortal.
The 10 Immortals would then hit back at WS4 S4 and would hit 5 out of 10 times, with 3.3 wounds caused and the Wyches lose 1.667 models. Without a chance to get back up. Obviously this could go different ways depending on Wych loadout and drug rolls. With a lesser lord in there chances are the Wyches might actually be the ones to lose the combat, especially with wound allocating to a Lord with a 2+/3++/4+++.
I think the biggest unit to worry about in melee from Dark Eldar are Incubi seeing as they have S4 Power weapons and a higher WS than Wyches/Bloodbrides, but beyond that I think Necrons would be fine in resisting the CC department.
Marines would be a different story, especially with Grey Knights though and I could definitly see Necrons having far more trouble against them than any other CC based army. And that is mostly due to them all having power weapons and +S psychic powers which Necrons do not have much defense against enless you are Spyder Spamming.
You will have trouble taking out LF/ Dev's with Destroyers, because they will be in cover. They will still get a 4++ save. Furthermore, getting within 24" of the almost-always rear line of a space marine army means every other thing in his list is rapid-firing at you. GG destroyers.
How are your lychguard/praetorians keeping up with jump infantry? They'll be left scambling behind while your destroyers jump up to get within effective range.
People continue to value wyches as an elite CC unit. As everyones favorite blogger Dash says, they are ***not*** an elite cc unit. They are a tarpit unit. They have no power weapons, and need 5's to wound almost anything.
Against anything in power armor, you're toast. Stats are either equal or worse, and that makes for a losing battle. You'll strike second, you'll be missing a hidden PF, you'll have a worse save. How do you win a CC against any marine army with immortals? Oh, and they pistol drilled you before assaulting. How are your assault 2 guns? Oh, they're rapid fire now. Whoops.
Yes they do. The hekatrix can take a power weapon or an agonizer.
He explicitly said 10 wyches, no upgrades.
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Post by: GiantSlingshot
So, I hear this Phaeron upgrade lords can take makes units they're with Relentless. Are any Named characters Phaerons? I hear Stormlord referred to in fluff as a Phaeron... But fluff and rules don't have to dovetail in this game.
Anyone know?
Just thinking that Gauss Immortals with a relentless IC leading them and the buff from Anrakyr... they might not actually be a god-awful unit to assault with after shooting.
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Post by: woodbok
James100 wrote:Destroyers are £12.50 and Heavy Destroyers are £15 - Check again woodbok!
Check again James!
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Post by: Lt. Coldfire
I see this:  I hope all is settled.
50365
Post by: Flint
The Monolith doesn't have any protection from DS Mishaps, so good luck to you and your attempts to DS is anywhere near your opponents.
I REALLY would like this to be confirmed by one of you, who actually HAS a new codex. With this information my new gameplan will rise... or fall.
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Post by: Swara
GiantSlingshot wrote:So, I hear this Phaeron upgrade lords can take makes units they're with Relentless. Are any Named characters Phaerons? I hear Stormlord referred to in fluff as a Phaeron... But fluff and rules don't have to dovetail in this game.
Anyone know?
Just thinking that Gauss Immortals with a relentless IC leading them and the buff from Anrakyr... they might not actually be a god-awful unit to assault with after shooting.
Stormlord is a Phaeron. That's it other than the basic overlord being upgraded to one. Automatically Appended Next Post: Flint wrote:The Monolith doesn't have any protection from DS Mishaps, so good luck to you and your attempts to DS is anywhere near your opponents.
I REALLY would like this to be confirmed by one of you, who actually HAS a new codex. With this information my new gameplan will rise... or fall.
No protection that I saw : (
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Post by: Sasori
You will have trouble taking out LF/Dev's with Destroyers, because they will be in cover. They will still get a 4++ save. Furthermore, getting within 24" of the almost-always rear line of a space marine army means every other thing in his list is rapid-firing at you. GG destroyers.
Someone can Math hammer this, but even with the 4+ Cover save a unit of Destroyers is quite likely to Wipe out, if not cripple the Unit. Also, if your Space Marine unit decides to disembark from their Rhino, to Rapid fire into the Destroyers, then I don't see the problem. That leaves them pretty vulnerable to my shooting next turn. In Addition, you Need to wipe out every Destroyer with your Rapid fire, or 33% of them are getting back up.
How are your lychguard/praetorians keeping up with jump infantry? They'll be left scambling behind while your destroyers jump up to get within effective range.
Praetorians are Jump infantry. Granted, I still think the unit still sucks. Also, Lycheguard can take a 36' Transport.
People continue to value wyches as an elite CC unit. As everyones favorite blogger Dash says, they are ***not*** an elite cc unit. They are a tarpit unit. They have no power weapons, and need 5's to wound almost anything.
Technically, Hekatrixes can take an Agoniser. And nobody has said they are an elite CC unit. It is the most likely unit with fleet to be assaulting from a raider though, isn't it? Which is where the comparison came from.
Against anything in power armor, you're toast. Stats are either equal or worse, and that makes for a losing battle. You'll strike second, you'll be missing a hidden PF, you'll have a worse save. How do you win a CC against any marine army with immortals? Oh, and they pistol drilled you before assaulting. How are your assault 2 guns? Oh, they're rapid fire now. Whoops.
Well, let's mention a few things here. For one, you can have Court Lords in with these immortals. They can take War Scythes, Rez orbs, Phase shifters, and Sempiternal weaves. While it's not cost efficient to take everything, you really only need the Warscythe and a Phase shifter to win combat. The Warscythe hits on 4's, and wounds on 2's, killing your marines. It's got a 3++ to absorb the powerfist hits as well.
Not to mention that Immortals can Take Tesla Carbines for free, which are a lot more effective against MEQ's than Gauss blasters are.
You are trying to play things in a vacuum with all this speculation completely in your favor, With no supporting math I might add, and are not considering a multitude of factors. You act like you are just going to roll up across the boar will all your transports and marines intact, get into close combat, and wipe everything out without blinking. Games never go like that, you should know better.
20650
Post by: Pyriel-
Looking at the necron lord...damn but that's a nice codex creep, compared to the super lame SM captain and other HQ choices he is a beast.
I suspect a pretty nice future cheese increase in a remade SM codex to keep it in line.
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Post by: Sasori
They do. They look like a mix between a Trygon, and a Tomb Spyder.
50341
Post by: Hox
Sasori wrote:
They do. They look like a mix between a Trygon, and a Tomb Spyder.
I just jumped in. This hasn't already linked before has it? It fits the idea that the canopteks are all working together.
50990
Post by: ShadarLogoth
You are trying to play things in a vacuum with all this speculation completely in your favor, With no supporting math I might add, and are not considering a multitude of factors. You act like you are just going to roll up across the boar will all your transports and marines intact, get into close combat, and wipe everything out without blinking. Games never go like that, you should know better.
Exactly, Post of the thread.
Sasori, I'm curios about your dislike for the Praetorians, their costs seem high but their weapons are at least intriguing, although of limited range. I could see having a squad hang around behind the front lines to provide a quick strike assault on anyone that gets close. Throw in the Preatorians and step every one back 6" for another volley of fire once combat is resolved.
Similarly, I'm intrigued by the new Flayed Ones (my 20 primed and painted old models may be affecting my judgement). Their reduced cost seems to make them an ideal tar-pit now. 4T 4+/5+ should keep them going long enough to give the rest of the army some back-stepping room.
17048
Post by: usa_supersonic
wait a minute...Gauss cannon on the destroyers is now S5 with 24" range and a ap3 ?
I sure hope not...
47494
Post by: GiantSlingshot
Now I just imagine every Wraith in my army voiced by Wesley from Portal 2.
Edit: Quite So. Wheatley.
50341
Post by: Hox
GiantSlingshot wrote:Now I just imagine every Wraith in my army voiced by Wesley from Portal 2.
Wheatley*
Walker looks HUGE by the way.
47494
Post by: GiantSlingshot
Hox wrote:GiantSlingshot wrote:Now I just imagine every Wraith in my army voiced by Wesley from Portal 2.
Wheatley*
Walker looks HUGE by the way.
Yeah... I was thinking it'd be overkill to use my defiler as a stand in for it... Now I'm thinking it's about right.
14863
Post by: MasterSlowPoke
7637
Post by: Sasori
I just jumped in. This hasn't already linked before has it? It fits the idea that the canopteks are all working together.
Nope, that's new, and is surely appreciated by those of us (I.E. Me) That haven't gotten our Codex yet.
Exactly, Post of the thread.
Sasori, I'm curios about your dislike for the Praetorians, their costs seem high but their weapons are at least intriguing, although of limited range. I could see having a squad hang around behind the front lines to provide a quick strike assault on anyone that gets close. Throw in the Preatorians and step every one back 6" for another volley of fire once combat is resolved.
Similarly, I'm intrigued by the new Flayed Ones (my 20 primed and painted old models may be affecting my judgement). Their reduced cost seems to make them an ideal tar-pit now. 4T 4+/5+ should keep them going long enough to give the rest of the army some back-stepping room.
My main issue with the Praetorians is, that even with their weapon, they are not going to hold up well in combat. You really need to wipe out your enemy in the shooting phase, or at least totally cripple it, before you assault. Chances are, that you are going to hit second. If the Enemy is wielding power weapons, you may not even get a chance to strike.
Couple this, with the fact that Praetorains now only have 1A base (Which was confirmed on Warseer,the GW website is wrong) it can get really messy. In addition, for every praetorian you lose, you are loosing a lot of firepower. The biggest issue with them, is the I2. Without any sort of invul save, the chances are they are going to get wiped out to uselessness in their first combat. If you only want to keep them for their shooting, then I think they are a waste of points in that regard.
Now, don't get me wrong, I do intend to try them a few times. They may look bad on paper, and turn out to be a lot better in the game. It's always possible. I just don't feel the potential is there.
For their points cost, Flayed ones are not a bad unit at all. The main issue to me, is they take up an Elite slot. If they were troops, I would no issue taking some at all.
EDIT:
Judging by the cut off "Illu" Ont he right hand side, I would say Illuminor Szeras.
50341
Post by: Hox
If I had to guess I would say they are releasing a general use shard model.
OH I read somewhere about an unmentioned HQ so far, something about endless swarm or such and such.
32700
Post by: woodbok
Lt. Coldfire wrote:I see this:
I hope all is settled.
I see this.
50185
Post by: SoulGazer
It's Illuminor Szeras, I think. Look at the text. Edit: That is all.
30179
Post by: SiegeCommander
Wow the triarch stalker looks badass, PLEASE GW GIVE US A MODEL FOR THIS THING!
14863
Post by: MasterSlowPoke
Hox wrote:
If I had to guess I would say they are releasing a general use shard model.
OH I read somewhere about an unmentioned HQ so far, something about endless swarm or such and such.
Looking at that D3 chart, I'm thinking he's Illuminor Szeras, one of the worst character choices.
50341
Post by: Hox
MasterSlowPoke wrote:Hox wrote:
If I had to guess I would say they are releasing a general use shard model.
OH I read somewhere about an unmentioned HQ so far, something about endless swarm or such and such.
Looking at that D3 chart, I'm thinking he's Illuminor Szeras, one of the worst character choices.
Shot through the heart, and you're to blame. That's too bad. why waste something awesome on a bad character. Automatically Appended Next Post: If you are interested, supposedly there will soon be visual replicas documented on the computer which can found on the 4th channel, where traditional games are occasionally played.
God that hox has a way with words. Hes handsome too I hear.
50990
Post by: ShadarLogoth
Couple this, with the fact that Praetorains now only have 1A base (Which was confirmed on Warseer,the GW website is wrong) it can get really messy. In addition, for every praetorian you lose, you are loosing a lot of firepower. The biggest issue with them, is the I2. Without any sort of invul save, the chances are they are going to get wiped out to uselessness in their first combat. If you only want to keep them for their shooting, then I think they are a waste of points in that regard.
Now, don't get me wrong, I do intend to try them a few times. They may look bad on paper, and turn out to be a lot better in the game. It's always possible. I just don't feel the potential is there.
For their points cost, Flayed ones are not a bad unit at all. The main issue to me, is they take up an Elite slot. If they were troops, I would no issue taking some at all.
Fair points. I think that 5 2 weapon should soften up most assault units, basically giving them a high initiative swing before taking on the brunt of the assault units force. Even if used sacrificially, as long as they don't die the turn they assault, tying up that nasty group of [insert nasty assault unit here) long enough to give your gimps some time to make a tactical retreat should more then pay for themselves. At least that's the idea.
Totally agree with the Elites point with the flayed ones. Although, with some of the pizzazz from other FOS, I don't see the elites section of this codex competing for attention as much as it does in say the DE or Nid dex.
Has anyone confirmed the squad size of Flayed ones is max 20? Could be quite the frustration unit if so, especially combined with the Stormlord ability. And speaking of that ability, has anyone confirmed its random? Doesn't seem nearly as good if so.
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Post by: Corpsesarefun
I see no wraiths?
Also in the comments
Alex 38 minutes ago
I smell lawsuit very soon, I don't know how many of you guys here fallowing Blizzard's StarCraft 2's Heart of the Swarm. The 4th picture (UFO ship) is so similar to the protoss's new tempest ship.
Too funny 
50341
Post by: Hox
corpsesarefun wrote:
I see no wraiths?
Also in the comments
Alex 38 minutes ago
I smell lawsuit very soon, I don't know how many of you guys here fallowing Blizzard's StarCraft 2's Heart of the Swarm. The 4th picture (UFO ship) is so similar to the protoss's new tempest ship.
Too funny
They are the trygon thing behind the guardsmen.
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Post by: Griever
As much as I hate GW, god damn they make such beautiful models.
The Necrons I've seen so far are a home run, flayed ones excluded.
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Post by: DJ3
tetrisphreak wrote:So i've got a rules question (that should probably go to YMDC as of Nov 5 2011, but for now i'll post it here):
Vehicles treat difficult terrain as if it were dangerous, yes? So immediately, the c'tan power that effects all area terrain becomes a 33% chance to immobilize enemy vehicles, just for them trying to move into it. Factor in Orikan the diviner's power, and the enemy has to make a choice on turn 1 - risk immobilizing their vehicles on a roll of 1, or 2, or stay in their deployment zone and wait for the pain.
Do you remember that time that you were inches away from victory in a capture and control game, and at the last minute a venom or raider or land speeder turbo-boosted to just within 3", contesting the objective and costing you a victory? Now with the c'tan in play you can target those skimmers with a tremorstave, and leave them a 1/3 chance to immobilize and become destroyed if they try any shenanigans like this...or you can plan ahead and place your objectives in area terrain to start with.
So the main issue is does the c'tan power affect vehicles, if so, does their dangerous terrain become double-dangerous as per the wording of the rule?
Also in dawn of war you'll kill 33 percent of the enemy's transports before they can even roll on the table. rock.
While I personally think Orikan and the C'tan power will combine correctly, you're dramatically overstepping the "fail on 1 or 2" clause.
Vehicles count Difficult Terrain as Dangerous Terrain. At no point, however, is that terrain actually Dangerous.
Orikan says: Everything is Difficult Terrain.
C'tan says: Count Difficult Terrain as Dangerous Terrain.
Vehicle rules say: Count Difficult Terrain as Dangerous Terrain.
At no point is there actually any Dangerous Terrain--there are just two identical rules causing a vehicle to count Difficult as Dangerous. Trying to suggest they'd stack (which is nonsensical at best) to trigger the fail on 1/2 clause is outrageous.
Same goes for Jump Infantry, Bikes, Jetbikes, etc. The only thing that will trigger the 1-2 failure clause is true Dangerous Terrain, which for most people's purposes, is just Wrecked Vehicles.
That said, Orikan is still a nightmare in Dawn of War, and is my best friend in the whole world.
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Post by: scythewing
Love the pics but a little confused by the wraith pic. So all of our old wraith models are useless now? Those of us with 3 full squads are SOL. unless there are going to be two diffrent types as in necron and canopic style.
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Post by: Corpsesarefun
Really? I thought the trygon thing was a tomb spyder...
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Post by: azazel the cat
Flint wrote:The Monolith doesn't have any protection from DS Mishaps, so good luck to you and your attempts to DS is anywhere near your opponents.
I REALLY would like this to be confirmed by one of you, who actually HAS a new codex. With this information my new gameplan will rise... or fall.
Much to my chagrin, it has been confirmed by one or two different people with codices.
Sasori wrote:You will have trouble taking out LF/Dev's with Destroyers, because they will be in cover. They will still get a 4++ save. Furthermore, getting within 24" of the almost-always rear line of a space marine army means every other thing in his list is rapid-firing at you. GG destroyers.
Someone can Math hammer this, but even with the 4+ Cover save a unit of Destroyers is quite likely to Wipe out, if not cripple the Unit. Also, if your Space Marine unit decides to disembark from their Rhino, to Rapid fire into the Destroyers, then I don't see the problem. That leaves them pretty vulnerable to my shooting next turn. In Addition, you Need to wipe out every Destroyer with your Rapid fire, or 33% of them are getting back up.
Yeah, 33% of 4 models rounds off to 1 model.
sasori wrote:Against anything in power armor, you're toast. Stats are either equal or worse, and that makes for a losing battle. You'll strike second, you'll be missing a hidden PF, you'll have a worse save. How do you win a CC against any marine army with immortals? Oh, and they pistol drilled you before assaulting. How are your assault 2 guns? Oh, they're rapid fire now. Whoops.
Well, let's mention a few things here. For one, you can have Court Lords in with these immortals. They can take War Scythes, Rez orbs, Phase shifters, and Sempiternal weaves. While it's not cost efficient to take everything, you really only need the Warscythe and a Phase shifter to win combat. The Warscythe hits on 4's, and wounds on 2's, killing your marines. It's got a 3++ to absorb the powerfist hits as well.
Not to mention that Immortals can Take Tesla Carbines for free, which are a lot more effective against MEQ's than Gauss blasters are.
This is what I mentioned previously. The Necrons need several upgrades in order to counter a basic unit. I haven't seen a single Necron unit that is a real threat to any MEQ army on its own yet. If the Necrons constantly need to take 2 different units just to be a viable counter to a SM Tac Squad, then this will not be a competitive codex.
ShadarLogoth wrote:Similarly, I'm intrigued by the new Flayed Ones (my 20 primed and painted old models may be affecting my judgement). Their reduced cost seems to make them an ideal tar-pit now. 4T 4+/5+ should keep them going long enough to give the rest of the army some back-stepping room.
They're not likely much of a tar pit as they have I2 and are not Fearless, so I would be expecting them to get swept quite often. Even at 3 attacks each, 5 Flayed Ones will suffer 3 casualties to 5 Tac Marines before the Necrons ever get to attack. The Flayed Ones will respond with 6 attacks, 3 hits and 1 wound. They're not tar pits; they're puddles.
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Post by: Sasori
scythewing wrote:Love the pics but a little confused by the wraith pic. So all of our old wraith models are useless now? Those of us with 3 full squads are SOL. unless there are going to be two diffrent types as in necron and canopic style.
There is no reason why you can't use your current models.
I'm wondering if the Tomb Spyders/Wraiths are going to end up in a 3 piece Duel it. From the Artwork, it sure looks possible.
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Post by: zacharia
woodbok wrote:Lt. Coldfire wrote:I see this:
(pic showing US prices)
I hope all is settled.
I see this.
(pic showing UK prices at £12.50 destroyers and £12.30 heavy destroyers)
You need to clear cache maybe, it used to show that but they changed it a few hours ago. Heavy destroyers on the UK site now show £15 cost
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Post by: Zachilles
Wraiths looks like Robo-Raveners to me. I'm in a bit of a pickle now, I've been scouring Bartertown and Ebay trying to snag 18 Wraiths but if we use Dark Eldar as an example, things with art will get models, and I am willing to bet the wraiths will be sweet, I just hope they aren't Finecast
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Post by: CadianCommander
One more sleep....
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Post by: Sigvatr
zacharia wrote:woodbok wrote:Lt. Coldfire wrote:I see this:
(pic showing US prices)
I hope all is settled.
I see this.
(pic showing UK prices at £12.50 destroyers and £12.30 heavy destroyers)
You need to clear cache maybe, it used to show that but they changed it a few hours ago. Heavy destroyers on the UK site now show £15 cost
Confirmed, prices are up to date on the German website as well:
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Post by: Kroothawk
Here the art for three new units (that we will see in the second wave quite soon):
The Doom Scythe:
The Tomb Blade:
The Triarch Stalker:
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Post by: Sigvatr
Looking forward to the Triarch Stalker model, not looking forward to GW most likely charging 39€ for it. Zachilles wrote:Wraiths looks like Robo-Raveners to me. I'm in a bit of a pickle now, I've been scouring Bartertown and Ebay trying to snag 18 Wraiths but if we use Dark Eldar as an example, things with art will get models, and I am willing to bet the wraiths will be sweet, I just hope they aren't Finecast
They will be Finecast, most certainly. Milk the cow etc.
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Post by: Hox
I beat the tracker! I feel special.
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Post by: Sasori
Hox wrote:I beat the tracker! I feel special.
You didn't have the Doom Scythe 
I'm wondering if the Triarch Stalker is going to be a Plastic kit, or Finecast.
I'd like Plastic, but I imagine Plastic wise we are looking at
Doomscythe/NightScythe
Wraiths/Spyders
Tomb Blades
Characters in Finecast.
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Post by: Bezerker Saberhagen
Sasori wrote:I'm wondering if the Tomb Spyders/Wraiths are going to end up in a 3 piece Duel it. From the Artwork, it sure looks possible.
Judging by the relative size of the marines/scarabs in the two pictures the scales look completely different. I think the wraiths will follow the TK Sepulchral Stalkers 3-per-box model but the Tomb Spyders look like they will be MC size and I expect will be one per box.
Don't have the codex yet to check point costs or whether there are the usual configuration options that are used to justify the multipart single box models
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Post by: Arandmoor
Therion wrote:Arandmoor wrote:Just pointing out that "elite shooty" =/= "long range"
Tau are *the* long range army.
Necrons shoot better.
Always been this way.
Tau? Seriously? Tau aren't in the top5 of shooty armies. They're outdated and uncompetitive. Necrons on the other hand aren't outdated anymore but still don't seem to be too competitive.
Yes tau. Please note...no don't note. Go back, re-read what I wrote, and do so carefully. Make sure you don't miss anything this time.
Tau are an edition behind. Of course they're not a "top shooting army" at the moment. What they are, is *long range*. Guard have artillery, but they also got a new codex more recently than the tau did. And yes, before you say something else to defend yourself, I consider the tau to be "longer range" than necrons because the basic gun on their bread and butter unit (firewarriors) is freaking 30" (and S5 which is still pretty amazing).
Also, I want to know exactly how you've managed to play enough games with the new 'dex (that isn't even officially out yet) to authoratively state that the new necron 'dex "still don't seem to be too competitive".
chipstar1 wrote:
I'd like to counter-point that you're wrong on both counts. Tau pale in comparison to most IG lists, and Necrons shoot no better than tau in their current form.
"elite shooty" means either they are small expensive units that are very shooty, or they are the premier shooty army. I see neither out of this codex. All shooting besides the barge/ark seems to be nerfed in at least range, and type of shot (so much rapid fire).
And I'd like to point out that you failed to read what I wrote. And did so twice, apparently.
Again: "Elite Shooty" does NOT equal "long range". Also, tau still have 30" basic guns compared to 24" tops for everyone else. Add that to the simple fact that Tau are still an edition out of date and I'll defend their position as the "kings of long range". They're just lacking a 5th/6th edition codex (i'm not looking forward to the BS they'll be able to field with hammerheads being 1-3 squadrons and like twice the vehicle-killing options. You know it's comming...).
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Post by: Kevin949
DJ3 wrote:tetrisphreak wrote:So i've got a rules question (that should probably go to YMDC as of Nov 5 2011, but for now i'll post it here):
Vehicles treat difficult terrain as if it were dangerous, yes? So immediately, the c'tan power that effects all area terrain becomes a 33% chance to immobilize enemy vehicles, just for them trying to move into it. Factor in Orikan the diviner's power, and the enemy has to make a choice on turn 1 - risk immobilizing their vehicles on a roll of 1, or 2, or stay in their deployment zone and wait for the pain.
Do you remember that time that you were inches away from victory in a capture and control game, and at the last minute a venom or raider or land speeder turbo-boosted to just within 3", contesting the objective and costing you a victory? Now with the c'tan in play you can target those skimmers with a tremorstave, and leave them a 1/3 chance to immobilize and become destroyed if they try any shenanigans like this...or you can plan ahead and place your objectives in area terrain to start with.
So the main issue is does the c'tan power affect vehicles, if so, does their dangerous terrain become double-dangerous as per the wording of the rule?
Also in dawn of war you'll kill 33 percent of the enemy's transports before they can even roll on the table. rock.
While I personally think Orikan and the C'tan power will combine correctly, you're dramatically overstepping the "fail on 1 or 2" clause.
Vehicles count Difficult Terrain as Dangerous Terrain. At no point, however, is that terrain actually Dangerous.
Orikan says: Everything is Difficult Terrain.
C'tan says: Count Difficult Terrain as Dangerous Terrain.
Vehicle rules say: Count Difficult Terrain as Dangerous Terrain.
At no point is there actually any Dangerous Terrain--there are just two identical rules causing a vehicle to count Difficult as Dangerous. Trying to suggest they'd stack (which is nonsensical at best) to trigger the fail on 1/2 clause is outrageous.
Same goes for Jump Infantry, Bikes, Jetbikes, etc. The only thing that will trigger the 1-2 failure clause is true Dangerous Terrain, which for most people's purposes, is just Wrecked Vehicles.
That said, Orikan is still a nightmare in Dawn of War, and is my best friend in the whole world.
I pretty much said the same thing...like three pages back. LoL This thread is moving too fast. It might have been more than 3 pages now... Automatically Appended Next Post: usa_supersonic wrote:wait a minute...Gauss cannon on the destroyers is now S5 with 24" range and a ap3 ?
I sure hope not...
Really? You hope not? So you want all the marines to get their 3+ armor saves instead of...none? Even with a shorter range and lower strength it's still a far superior gun in the meta.
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Post by: DJ3
Sigvatr wrote:Looking forward to the Triarch Stalker model, not looking forward to GW most likely charging 39€ for it.
Zachilles wrote:Wraiths looks like Robo-Raveners to me. I'm in a bit of a pickle now, I've been scouring Bartertown and Ebay trying to snag 18 Wraiths but if we use Dark Eldar as an example, things with art will get models, and I am willing to bet the wraiths will be sweet, I just hope they aren't Finecast
They will be Finecast, most certainly. Milk the cow etc.
With the rumored art changes making it clear that Spyders/Wraiths will likely be a shared kit, I can't imagine them being Finecast.
Maybe something closer to Bloodcrushers. 3 huge plastic models with options for ~$55.
Kevin949 wrote:I pretty much said the same thing...like three pages back. LoL This thread is moving too fast. It might have been more than 3 pages now...
Yeah, I skipped some pages, but wanted to make sure it had been said.
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Post by: Swara
So Lychguard seems like a good group to put together first.
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Post by: Hox
Sasori wrote:Hox wrote:I beat the tracker! I feel special.
You didn't have the Doom Scythe
I'm wondering if the Triarch Stalker is going to be a Plastic kit, or Finecast.
I'd like Plastic, but I imagine Plastic wise we are looking at
Doomscythe/NightScythe
Wraiths/Spyders
Tomb Blades
Characters in Finecast.
hey like 6/7 isnt too bad.
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Post by: Sasori
You got some work to do Swara!
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Post by: Swara
Sasori wrote:You got some work to do Swara!
Wow, the Lychguard are bigger than I thought they would be and so many extra parts..
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Post by: Kroothawk
Hox wrote:I beat the tracker! I feel special.
Thought your link was a Hoax
Actually I didn't see any recent pics in the thread, you only posted a link. And maybe people appreciate the better quality of the pics.
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Post by: Hox
If you google do a barrel roll on google your screen does a barrel roll. How intense is that.
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Post by: IronfrontAlex
Anyone else thinking you could make doomscythes out of the barge kits? Look at the cron pilot compared to its vehicle.
Cheap alternative?
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Post by: CthuluIsSpy
I love the new triarch stalker. Very War of the Worlds. The tomb blades look kinda silly though.
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Post by: Hox
IronfrontAlex wrote:Anyone else thinking you could make doomscythes out of the barge kits? Look at the cron pilot compared to its vehicle.
Cheap alternative?
Size will probably be way smaller than the real model coming.
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Post by: CthuluIsSpy
I don't know...looks like a cryptek. Could be some special variant.
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Post by: Happygrunt
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I don't know...looks like a cryptek. Could be some special variant.
Already came up, but that is the Iluminator special character dude.
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Post by: Sasori
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I don't know...looks like a cryptek. Could be some special variant.
Conclusion seems to be Illuminor Szeras. In the text it mentions his name, and in the unit box on the right it starts out as "Illum"
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Post by: Griever
I just hope an all foot army with monolith support is viable. I've never been a fan of the vroom vroom metal bawkses play style. I actually like seeing all my toy soldiers on the field for more than 2 minutes. I'm assuming my dex will arrive tomorrow morning.
Unfortunately, Matt Ward seems to be really really good at overpricing assault units that aren't death cultists.
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Post by: aboytervigon
The chrono says 1d6 per phase, does that mean one in movement and one in shooting ect...
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Post by: King Pariah
Hey guys, if anyone said it in the last 3 pages, sorry, just had to put this out there for everyone who were sad that there were only what? 3 36" + weapons? Well, the Harp of Dissonance is also an infinite range weapon with S 6 AP - Assault 1 and Entropic Strike. The Tremor Stave is 36" S 4 AP - Assault 1, Blast, Quake. So there are two more 36"+ weapons.
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Post by: zacharia
King Pariah wrote:Hey guys, if anyone said it in the last 3 pages, sorry, just had to put this out there for everyone who were sad that there were only what? 3 36" + weapons? Well, the Harp of Dissonance is also an infinite range weapon with S 6 AP - Assault 1 and Entropic Strike. The Tremor Stave is 36" S 4 AP - Assault 1, Blast, Quake. So there are two more 36"+ weapons.
Only 3 that arent upgrades for hq options
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Post by: Sasori
King Pariah wrote:Hey guys, if anyone said it in the last 3 pages, sorry, just had to put this out there for everyone who were sad that there were only what? 3 36" + weapons? Well, the Harp of Dissonance is also an infinite range weapon with S 6 AP - Assault 1 and Entropic Strike. The Tremor Stave is 36" S 4 AP - Assault 1, Blast, Quake. So there are two more 36"+ weapons.
The Harp is one shot only though, right?
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Post by: King Pariah
Sasori wrote:King Pariah wrote:Hey guys, if anyone said it in the last 3 pages, sorry, just had to put this out there for everyone who were sad that there were only what? 3 36" + weapons? Well, the Harp of Dissonance is also an infinite range weapon with S 6 AP - Assault 1 and Entropic Strike. The Tremor Stave is 36" S 4 AP - Assault 1, Blast, Quake. So there are two more 36"+ weapons.
The Harp is one shot only though, right?
Nope  The Codex says nothing about it being one shot only. BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!
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Post by: Drakmord
Sasori wrote:King Pariah wrote:Hey guys, if anyone said it in the last 3 pages, sorry, just had to put this out there for everyone who were sad that there were only what? 3 36" + weapons? Well, the Harp of Dissonance is also an infinite range weapon with S 6 AP - Assault 1 and Entropic Strike. The Tremor Stave is 36" S 4 AP - Assault 1, Blast, Quake. So there are two more 36"+ weapons.
The Harp is one shot only though, right?
i don't remember where in the thread this is, but Yakface said that it wasn't a one-off weapon, but rather that it was a "single shot;" i dont think it has a profile like a regular weapon, like heavy 3/assault 2, and so on.
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Post by: Sectiplave
Yeah I really like the look of the stalker model! This is good as I also think they will be a useful unit to ensure our short ranged weapons hit their target when needed.
This has turned fairly negative towards the Necrons competency in the past few pages it seems, I think they will be a mid tier codex, maybe the top of the mid tier at best. The biggest struggle for Necrons will be fielding a really balanced list, as it looks easy to blow points on things that will not pay for themselves without the right support.
The imperial armies in competitive pole position will be overall unaffected by this codex and will continue to dominate the competitive tournament scene.
Tournaments aside, Necrons just became about 40 thousand times more fun to play in casual games, heaps of cool stuff in there, plenty of options to field stuff that is interesting but not exactly optimal. Hasn't really been covered yet, and hard to know, but I wonder how the codex will scale when played at 3K - 5K Apoc sized games.
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Post by: King Pariah
Drakmord wrote:Sasori wrote:King Pariah wrote:Hey guys, if anyone said it in the last 3 pages, sorry, just had to put this out there for everyone who were sad that there were only what? 3 36" + weapons? Well, the Harp of Dissonance is also an infinite range weapon with S 6 AP - Assault 1 and Entropic Strike. The Tremor Stave is 36" S 4 AP - Assault 1, Blast, Quake. So there are two more 36"+ weapons.
The Harp is one shot only though, right?
i don't remember where in the thread this is, but Yakface said that it wasn't a one-off weapon, but rather that it was a "single shot;" i dont think it has a profile like a regular weapon, like heavy 3/assault 2, and so on.
I'm looking at it right now, Range Infinite, Strength 6, AP -, Assault 1, Entropic Strike
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Post by: Happygrunt
Sectiplave wrote:Yeah I really like the look of the stalker model! This is good as I also think they will be a useful unit to ensure our short ranged weapons hit their target when needed.
This has turned fairly negative towards the Necrons competency in the past few pages it seems, I think they will be a mid tier codex, maybe the top of the mid tier at best. The biggest struggle for Necrons will be fielding a really balanced list, as it looks easy to blow points on things that will not pay for themselves without the right support.
The imperial armies in competitive pole position will be overall unaffected by this codex and will continue to dominate the competitive tournament scene.
Tournaments aside, Necrons just became about 40 thousand times more fun to play in casual games, heaps of cool stuff in there, plenty of options to field stuff that is interesting but not exactly optimal. Hasn't really been covered yet, and hard to know, but I wonder how the codex will scale when played at 3K - 5K Apoc sized games.
I see them being on par with guard: both have crazy options that are not very good, but can be built to wreck face.
Although, Necrons I see as being more special character heavy.
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Post by: Lt. Coldfire
I think the Tachyon Arrow is the one time use weapon you guys are thinking about.
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Post by: Sunoccard
Sectiplave wrote:
This has turned fairly negative towards the Necrons competency in the past few pages it seems, I think they will be a mid tier codex, maybe the top of the mid tier at best. The biggest struggle for Necrons will be fielding a really balanced list, as it looks easy to blow points on things that will not pay for themselves without the right support.
The imperial armies in competitive pole position will be overall unaffected by this codex and will continue to dominate the competitive tournament scene.
Tournaments aside, Necrons just became about 40 thousand times more fun to play in casual games, heaps of cool stuff in there, plenty of options to field stuff that is interesting but not exactly optimal. Hasn't really been covered yet, and hard to know, but I wonder how the codex will scale when played at 3K - 5K Apoc sized games.
I could see this being a decently competitive Army, not OP, and not under powered, They have a lot of options and units; many are horrible and some are amazing. So there will be some very competitive type builds that will decimate enemies. I can see this codex being heavily reliant on SC for tournament play, however.
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Post by: Drakmord
King Pariah wrote:Drakmord wrote:Sasori wrote:King Pariah wrote:Hey guys, if anyone said it in the last 3 pages, sorry, just had to put this out there for everyone who were sad that there were only what? 3 36" + weapons? Well, the Harp of Dissonance is also an infinite range weapon with S 6 AP - Assault 1 and Entropic Strike. The Tremor Stave is 36" S 4 AP - Assault 1, Blast, Quake. So there are two more 36"+ weapons.
The Harp is one shot only though, right?
i don't remember where in the thread this is, but Yakface said that it wasn't a one-off weapon, but rather that it was a "single shot;" i dont think it has a profile like a regular weapon, like heavy 3/assault 2, and so on.
I'm looking at it right now, Range Infinite, Strength 6, AP -, Assault 1, Entropic Strike
well there you go!
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Post by: StringBassKnight
Really like the look of the dooms scythe... can't wait for 2nd wave
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Post by: Ostrakon
It looks like Necrons are shaping up to be a very unique army, and I don't know what to make of it. 24" ranged shots, but I 2 melee, lots of shenanigans... I don't think any army in the game is going to play like them. This is good game design.
From the looks of things, Necrons are going to be a "wave" army. We've got a lot of fast but fragile threats capable of dishing out some serious pain before going out. At first I was skeptical about some of our stuff (AV11 Night Scythes with crappy drawbacks, Ghost Arks for warriors only, praetorians in general) but I'm starting to feel like there's a lot going on here. Sure, individually 15 missle launchers can handle any one or two of those threats. But I'm seeing something like "You spent a full turn trying to take down that night scythe, enjoy these scarabs that will tie you up for a turn or two. The arks will be happy to clean up whatever is left. Oh, by the way the lychguard that were in the scythe you blew up are coming out of the monolith portal and half of my warriors are getting back up."
I think that we have an army that encourages opponents to focus fire but also punishes them for doing so. It's not like Orks or DE or IG or a lot of armies where you've pretty much put all of your focus into one strategy. The Necron army that your opponent is facing turn 1 will be an entirely different problem on turn 3.
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Post by: Just Dave
I think the Necrons have always been like that really; powerful close range firepower and highly durable. That's them at their core anyways IMHO.
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Post by: zacharia
Just Dave wrote:I think the Necrons have always been like that really; powerful close range firepower and highly durable. That's them at their core anyways IMHO.
The problem is their firepower was reduced when 5th edition came round (gauss v vehicles) and it hasnt been brought back up, instead durability has been reduced
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Post by: Cryage
SWARA! STOP TEASING US! Seriously, I'm starting to dislike you..... oh who am I kidding, I love you for confirming so many things haha! I'm living vicariously through you right now!!!
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Post by: Ostrakon
Just Dave wrote:I think the Necrons have always been like that really; powerful close range firepower and highly durable. That's them at their core anyways IMHO.
That's pretty much the exact opposite of 3E 'crons. You had to go out of your way for absurdly overcosted models to even stand a chance in melee, as the rest of your force would pretty much roll over due to sweeping advances. 18 points per boltgun was too much, because WBB didn't count for crap if you got swept. The other shooty things were nice (Destroyers and Immortals) but were ultimately vulnerable and overcosted. Anything CC-based bowled right over us and our guns costed more that MEQ equivalents.
This time around, we have units to encourage proactively dealing with assaulters at reasonable (if not optimal) costs. I think we're limited to 24" range because we're not really a shooty army anymore. We want to make you chew through scarabs and wraiths, only to give you a hearty round 2 of massed gauss fire from the relative safety of our Arks. The balance is going to be sending in enough of an initial wave to not simply be overwhelmed by their initial heavy fire. I'm worried about powerful anti-vehicle spam, but the 15x krak missles we often see averages out to only a couple of penetrates on a Night scythe, and probably isn't even going to scratch a cmd barge.
I think this army is going to be a lot of fun. Automatically Appended Next Post: zacharia wrote:Just Dave wrote:I think the Necrons have always been like that really; powerful close range firepower and highly durable. That's them at their core anyways IMHO.
The problem is their firepower was reduced when 5th edition came round (gauss v vehicles) and it hasnt been brought back up, instead durability has been reduced
Along with points costs. Herp.
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Post by: Gavin Thorne
zacharia wrote:Just Dave wrote:I think the Necrons have always been like that really; powerful close range firepower and highly durable. That's them at their core anyways IMHO.
The problem is their firepower was reduced when 5th edition came round (gauss v vehicles) and it hasnt been brought back up, instead durability has been reduced
This is my view as well, although I'm reserving judgement until I get some games in. My biggest worry is that new Necrons won't play too differently than old Necrons in that they get a solid round or two of shooting, then get smashed in assault.
I played Destroyer-wing in the last incarnation of the codex and have see-sawed back and forth over the possibility of continuing to do so, albiet with some new unit selections. Now with both limited mobility and reduced range on the cannons, I'm skeptical that it's an effective build. Of course, this goes hand-in-hand with GW's invalidation of existing builds policy when it comes to new codeci in order to sell new models, so I guess it shouldn't be a surprise.
Hopefully I'll be able to salvage the models I do have into a reasonable enough build to keep up with the GK/ BA/ SW spam in the local scene.
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Post by: Swara
Cryage wrote:SWARA! STOP TEASING US! Seriously, I'm starting to dislike you..... oh who am I kidding, I love you for confirming so many things haha! I'm living vicariously through you right now!!!
Lol, Sowwy! Just finished 2 lychguard and an overlord though. : P
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Post by: Drakmord
does Phaeron do anything aside from give Relentless to a joined squad? i imagine that it would have to, since the Phaeron fluff talks about how crazy great lords that reach that rank are supposed to be.
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Post by: azazel the cat
Gavin Thorne wrote:zacharia wrote:Just Dave wrote:I think the Necrons have always been like that really; powerful close range firepower and highly durable. That's them at their core anyways IMHO.
The problem is their firepower was reduced when 5th edition came round (gauss v vehicles) and it hasnt been brought back up, instead durability has been reduced
This is my view as well, although I'm reserving judgement until I get some games in. My biggest worry is that new Necrons won't play too differently than old Necrons in that they get a solid round or two of shooting, then get smashed in assault.
I played Destroyer-wing in the last incarnation of the codex and have see-sawed back and forth over the possibility of continuing to do so, albiet with some new unit selections. Now with both limited mobility and reduced range on the cannons, I'm skeptical that it's an effective build. Of course, this goes hand-in-hand with GW's invalidation of existing builds policy when it comes to new codeci in order to sell new models, so I guess it shouldn't be a surprise.
Hopefully I'll be able to salvage the models I do have into a reasonable enough build to keep up with the GK/ BA/ SW spam in the local scene.
This.
I was really looking forward to having my Destroyer wings move 12", then fire 36" with AP3 guns into the 15 Longfangs I commonly face. Oh well.
In general, I think it's going to be very expensive points-wise to use enough Lords and Crypteks to actually make a difference to our troops in close combat, and will just take that much more away from any long-range options, few though they may be. This entire codex, on paper, feels like it's nothing but half-measures.
Of course, if 6th Ed. changes the Rapid Fire rules, I'll change my tone and immediately field a metal tide of 60x Warriors and 20x Immortals, though. Hell, even if the Monolith gains some DS protection, I'd gladly put together an army of party-crashers, with Lychguard pouring out of a DS'd Monolith. But as it stands, I'm underwhelmed.
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Post by: CthuluIsSpy
Sasori wrote:CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I don't know...looks like a cryptek. Could be some special variant.
Conclusion seems to be Illuminor Szeras. In the text it mentions his name, and in the unit box on the right it starts out as "Illum"
HE'S the special cryptek?!
Whoa, not what I was expecting at all. He actually looks pretty badass.
I was expecting just some guy in a fancy cape.
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Post by: scythewing
I must say I got to play a test game with a friend and wow what a difference. It was like a totaly new way of playing them not to mention fun to play too. I'm sure I fluffed on a few rules but I for one can't wait to get the new codex in my hands.
27952
Post by: Swara
Vargard Obyron
Lord with warscythe and res orb
7x Lychguard w/ Shield & Blade
Cryptek of the Storm Lightning field
-610 points.. hmm Lol. I'm gonna have fun with this codex just writing up ridiculous units : P
26767
Post by: Kevin949
Hopefully playing a game this weekend against my BT buddy...providing I get the codex tomorrow like fedex says I will.
Here is to butt-kicking for goodness!
11038
Post by: G. Whitenbeard
Swara - Any chance of a picture comparing the size of a Lychguard to a normal warrior? (Out of sheer curiosity)
44335
Post by: FalkorsRaiders
I don't believe this has been asked/answered, and I have read every post in this thread, but can someone report the point costs for a base cryptek and the point costs for all their upgrades to different harbingers/war gear?
50341
Post by: Hox
FalkorsRaiders wrote:I don't believe this has been asked/answered, and I have read every post in this thread, but can someone report the point costs for a base cryptek and the point costs for all their upgrades to different harbingers/war gear?
All good?
45362
Post by: hollowmirror
I just found out something really interesting based on the new necron codex. Evidently 6th edition may allow monstrous creatures to go to ground.
I was looking at the new codex today (I don't have it personally yet, but I got to look through one today from my local hobby shop. It says in one of the paragraphs for the tomb spyder in the spot for the vehicle repair arm upgrade that it cannot be used if the spyder has gone to ground. It's the very last sentence of the paragraph.
Also some specific things I got to read about the monolith were
The monolith seems to allow one unit to come in from reserves during the movement step regardless of whether they passed the reserves roll or not. As I read the paragraph explaining it, it says to select one unit either on the table or in reserves. It doesn't say a requirement for them to have passed any sort of reserve rolls to elect the unit.
The gate on the monolith isn't 6" but actually D6" everything else that's been said on the monolith has seemed correct so far.
If I remember right the command barge is locked in at 80 points.
Also in case anyone isn't sure the stalker takes the heavy gauss cannon as a possible upgrade not the gauss cannon. So it's range is still 36" taking the upgrade. The cannon is also twin-linked.
32190
Post by: asimo77
Is it just me or has anyone noticed this rather alarming trend concerning rumours?:
A unit gets mentioned and seems great. Math-hammering, list theorizing, and hype builds up. A little later some small caveat appears that makes said unit look far worse than anticipated.
I think Anrakyr is pretty much the only thing that people looked at and realized he was good, and so far no little clause has tarnished his potential. But Imotekh got messed with, Wraiths lost RP, Destroyers got a range nerf, and so on.
While I'm in the "this codex won't be that great" camp when you're at the bottom you can only go up. I've gotten so fatalistic with Necrons and 40k in general that I don't care if I can win or not anymore, so long as I have options and cool models to paint.
28270
Post by: Gus Indo
asimo77 wrote:Is it just me or has anyone noticed this rather alarming trend concerning rumours?:
A unit gets mentioned and seems great. Math-hammering, list theorizing, and hype builds up. A little later some small caveat appears that makes said unit look far worse than anticipated.
I think Anrakyr is pretty much the only thing that people looked at and realized he was good, and so far no little clause has tarnished his potential. But Imotekh got messed with, Wraiths lost RP, Destroyers got a range nerf, and so on.
While I'm in the "this codex won't be that great" camp when you're at the bottom you can only go up. I've gotten so fatalistic with Necrons and 40k in general that I don't care if I can win or not anymore, so long as I have options and cool models to paint.
Nobody talk about the doomsday ark. Then it will be awesome
48228
Post by: lazarian
asimo77 wrote:Is it just me or has anyone noticed this rather alarming trend concerning rumours?:
A unit gets mentioned and seems great. Math-hammering, list theorizing, and hype builds up. A little later some small caveat appears that makes said unit look far worse than anticipated.
I think Anrakyr is pretty much the only thing that people looked at and realized he was good, and so far no little clause has tarnished his potential. But Imotekh got messed with, Wraiths lost RP, Destroyers got a range nerf, and so on.
While I'm in the "this codex won't be that great" camp when you're at the bottom you can only go up. I've gotten so fatalistic with Necrons and 40k in general that I don't care if I can win or not anymore, so long as I have options and cool models to paint.
Its not that the codex will be awful, its just that people are so dismissive without actual experience they will rip apart every combo they can half work out or have spelled out for them.
32190
Post by: asimo77
I think the Doomsday Ark has a few nails in its coffin. Not enough to keep its robotic zombified corpse from rising from its grave but a few to keep it from being a must take.
I think the problem is there are no units so far that stand out as being really great. While I like the idea of hard desicions and varying tactical options in an army list the problem is everyone else gets there no-brainer choices. Long Fangs, Fire Dragons, Railguns. Certain units stand out as good immediatley, so far I haven't seen much of that with Necrons, and the few things that are really good usually are very expensive or need so much support that you end up using a ton of points to kill very few in return
Automatically Appended Next Post:
lazarian wrote:asimo77 wrote:Is it just me or has anyone noticed this rather alarming trend concerning rumours?:
A unit gets mentioned and seems great. Math-hammering, list theorizing, and hype builds up. A little later some small caveat appears that makes said unit look far worse than anticipated.
I think Anrakyr is pretty much the only thing that people looked at and realized he was good, and so far no little clause has tarnished his potential. But Imotekh got messed with, Wraiths lost RP, Destroyers got a range nerf, and so on.
While I'm in the "this codex won't be that great" camp when you're at the bottom you can only go up. I've gotten so fatalistic with Necrons and 40k in general that I don't care if I can win or not anymore, so long as I have options and cool models to paint.
Its not that the codex will be awful, its just that people are so dismissive without actual experience they will rip apart every combo they can half work out or have spelled out for them.
I see it as people being too optimistic without any experience which I guess balances it out. I suppose we have to "wait and see" but quite a bit of the codex has been talked over already, enough for us to make some sort of judgements.
40494
Post by: tautemplar
lazarian wrote:asimo77 wrote:Is it just me or has anyone noticed this rather alarming trend concerning rumours?:
A unit gets mentioned and seems great. Math-hammering, list theorizing, and hype builds up. A little later some small caveat appears that makes said unit look far worse than anticipated.
I think Anrakyr is pretty much the only thing that people looked at and realized he was good, and so far no little clause has tarnished his potential. But Imotekh got messed with, Wraiths lost RP, Destroyers got a range nerf, and so on.
While I'm in the "this codex won't be that great" camp when you're at the bottom you can only go up. I've gotten so fatalistic with Necrons and 40k in general that I don't care if I can win or not anymore, so long as I have options and cool models to paint.
Its not that the codex will be awful, its just that people are so dismissive without actual experience they will rip apart every combo they can half work out or have spelled out for them.
No its true I think people are looking at this codex thinking how weak things appear to be, but when I look at it I see a lot of weak individual units (with a couple of exceptions of course) and a lot of great combinations. Needless to say I think that the necron codex will play a lot like a chess game where if you look at the individual pieces you might think them not that great, but used in unison you can easily defeat your opponent.
But yea I've already seen a bunch of posts here with crazy combo ideas.
@asimo77 For me one of the biggest problems with the doomsday ark is that you have this extremely long ranged unit, and a bunch of 24"-36" support units. So if you happen to hold something back to defend the ghost ark its not very useful, whereas if you move your whole army forward and leave the ghost ark behind you risk losing it to many a 40k unit that's good at that kind of thing. It's not like leaving a kroot wall around a broadside that's for sure.
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Post by: tetrisphreak
Swara, anyone else with a codex in hand --
A poster by Da Black Gobbo on warseer just mentioned that the entropic strikes resolve before damage rolls. could any of you verify that statement? It means that a mob of little beetles, even at s3, can take down tanks on their own in one assault phase.
thanks in advance.
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Post by: Defeatmyarmy
I have the new codex and man its a doozy. Its gonna be a fun Foot Ron list. Night Scythe really does send ur units into reserve when it dies.
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Post by: tautemplar
Defeatmyarmy wrote:I have the new codex and man its a doozy. Its gonna be a fun Foot Ron list. Night Scythe really does send ur units into reserve when it dies.
better than letting them die outright lol
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Post by: azazel the cat
hollowmirror wrote:The gate on the monolith isn't 6" but actually D6" everything else that's been said on the monolith has seemed correct so far.
Great. Because the Monolith's weapons already had too much range on them.
tautemplar wrote:No its true I think people are looking at this codex thinking how weak things appear to be, but when I look at it I see a lot of weak individual units (with a couple of exceptions of course) and a lot of great combinations. Needless to say I think that the necron codex will play a lot like a chess game where if you look at the individual pieces you might think them not that great, but used in unison you can easily defeat your opponent.
But yea I've already seen a bunch of posts here with crazy combo ideas.
In Chess, Queens, Rooks and Bishops are all self-evidently powerful. The Necrons seem like an army full of pawns, with a couple of knights.
And to whoever was hoping the pessimists wouldn't find flaws with the Doomsday Ark: That was one of the first disappointments. If you move it, its range drops to 24", S7 small blast. And I believe turning it counts as moving, if I'm not mistaken.
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Post by: tetrisphreak
azazel the cat wrote:
And to whoever was hoping the pessimists wouldn't find flaws with the Doomsday Ark: That was one of the first disappointments. If you move it, its range drops to 24", S7 small blast. And I believe turning it counts as moving, if I'm not mistaken.
I'll double-check my BRB when I get time but i'm 99 percent sure that pivoting a vehicle on the spot without moving it, the vehicle still counts as stationary.
24093
Post by: BSent
azazel the cat wrote:
And to whoever was hoping the pessimists wouldn't find flaws with the Doomsday Ark: That was one of the first disappointments. If you move it, its range drops to 24", S7 small blast. And I believe turning it counts as moving, if I'm not mistaken.
Hopefully I''m not mistaken, but I think a vehicle pivoting only counts as moving for the purpose of vehicles having troops disembark that can move and assault. However pivoting on the spot does not count toward the vehicles shooting.
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Post by: FalkorsRaiders
azazel the cat wrote:
In Chess, Queens, Rooks and Bishops are all self-evidently powerful. The Necrons seem like an army full of pawns, with a couple of knights.
Actually, I love knights and pawns in chess. usually win with them more-so then the queen or rooks. I also play against really bad chess players. At any rate, I think the necron codex is very much an army of pawns and knights, with our king being similar to queens able to move like knights. Sadly, we will die if within sight of a bishop's psycic power, an army full of queens with lots of checkers for transports, or a rook's green tide. Good thing that leaves us being good against an army of pawns, but what army isn't?
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Post by: mondo80
The new dex does add a great amount of tactical variety, based on some of the rumors i can see a few death stars. I mainly played with a a take on all comers list and had a good amount of victories. To me it didn't matter if I won or not, what really liked doing was ticking off my opponent. I ran with a destroyer lord with either wraiths or scarabs, 30 warriors in either 3 10man or 2 15man squads, 2 fleets of 5 destroyers and a monolith, then i either put a group of immortals or tomb spyders.
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Post by: SiegeCommander
Yep simply pivoting on the spot still counts as being stationary BRB pg.57
24153
Post by: tetrisphreak
SiegeCommander wrote:Yep simply pivoting on the spot still counts as being stationary BRB pg.57
Thank you for the page reference, Siege.
37325
Post by: Adam LongWalker
lazarian wrote:asimo77 wrote:Is it just me or has anyone noticed this rather alarming trend concerning rumours?:
A unit gets mentioned and seems great. Math-hammering, list theorizing, and hype builds up. A little later some small caveat appears that makes said unit look far worse than anticipated.
I think Anrakyr is pretty much the only thing that people looked at and realized he was good, and so far no little clause has tarnished his potential. But Imotekh got messed with, Wraiths lost RP, Destroyers got a range nerf, and so on.
While I'm in the "this codex won't be that great" camp when you're at the bottom you can only go up. I've gotten so fatalistic with Necrons and 40k in general that I don't care if I can win or not anymore, so long as I have options and cool models to paint.
Its not that the codex will be awful, its just that people are so dismissive without actual experience they will rip apart every combo they can half work out or have spelled out for them.
People went into a feeding frenzy they were not given the complete and entire information of the codex.
It comes down to Game mechanics of the entire codex, and this includes the deciphering the mathematics within each of the units in question and how they fit in the whole of the army. This is not simply the math hammer of people normally do.
My feelings about the codex still stands. It is a Xeno codex. It will not get all of the love the Imperial one's have received and I'm going by GW's past practices with Xeno codexes.
Will it be fun to play? Depends on the person in question as to what kind of fun he is looking for. I'm not taking this codex into competitive play, but I sure like some of those models.
I may even start a small fluff Army (1000 points for starters) just to have the "beer and pretzels" type of game with them.
49382
Post by: StringBassKnight
Who cares if necrons won't be top tier? They certainly look fun to play with at least and there's a lot of variety...
4566
Post by: catharsix
Codex art of 2nd(?) Wave! Looks awesome overall. My 2 cents:
-Flyers: Both awesome looking. Fit nicely with the design scheme so far (both older and newer). A hybrid kit? The general profile of the two look awfully similar... (though one pic is a view from above, the other a view from below)
-Triarch Walker: I don't know what I was expecting, but I'm not absolutely in love with this one. I guess I wasn't expecting a guy piloting a walker, but rather more like a giant Necron robot walker or something. Still, looks pretty cool. And if plastic, then I can just convert mine to have an enclosed top, make it look like a giant mechanical scorpion or something... (*gears in brain begin creaking, whirring*)
-Tomb Blades: Art is nice, and concept seems sound, but it's tough to say from the pic alone. Have to wait and see with these guys.
-Canoptek Wraith: I kinda wish they'd kept the Necron skull-head style from the old metal Wraiths. Don't think I like the new idea (insect/Tmb Spyder-style head) as much. Also: does that thing look like a smaller, mechanical version of the Trygon, or am I crazy?
-Canoptek Spyder: Pic doesn't look too hot - I'm hoping the execution of the plastic set is better.
-Illuminor Szeras:
Neat concept, but like the Cryptek, the false beard is a little too large (good idea, but the Cryptek at least it seriously unbalances the design of the head). Have to wait and see on actual model.
That last comment I guess goes for them all: we'll have to wait to see how well they execute these ideas. Hopefully it will be in a Dark Eldar time frame (regular waves, even little ones with the Court of the Archon guys), rather than a Tyranid time frame (Tervigon? Harpy? Hello? Hello...?)
47494
Post by: GiantSlingshot
FalkorsRaiders wrote:I don't believe this has been asked/answered, and I have read every post in this thread, but can someone report the point costs for a base cryptek and the point costs for all their upgrades to different harbingers/war gear?
This was posted on the 4th channel yesterday, as I was bleeding a codex holder dry of info.
> Cryptic
25
> Cryptic Harbinger upgrades
Depends.
> Harp of Dissonance
25, plus 5 for Transmog.
> Solar Pulse
20, plus 10 for Destruction
> Veil of Darkness
30, plus 5 for Despair
> Lightning Field
10, Storm is free
Given the source, many salt grains should also be taken.
27952
Post by: Swara
G. Whitenbeard wrote:Swara - Any chance of a picture comparing the size of a Lychguard to a normal warrior? (Out of sheer curiosity)
Sorry about the fuzzyness. Warrior on the right, chaos marine on the left.
24153
Post by: tetrisphreak
Still no info from codex-owners about entropic strike?
Does the -1 to the AV happen before, or after penetration rolls occur?
41831
Post by: omerakk
hmm judging by the pictures of wraiths and spyders, and how wraiths got bumped up to 2 wounds... anyone else think these 2 models might be sharing a box like the deathmarks/immortals etc?
32190
Post by: asimo77
People went into a feeding frenzy they were not given the complete and entire information of the codex.
It comes down to Game mechanics of the entire codex, and this includes the deciphering the mathematics within each of the units in question and how they fit in the whole of the army. This is not simply the math hammer of people normally do.
My feelings about the codex still stands. It is a Xeno codex. It will not get all of the love the Imperial one's have received and I'm going by GW's past practices with Xeno codexes.
Will it be fun to play? Depends on the person in question as to what kind of fun he is looking for. I'm not taking this codex into competitive play, but I sure like some of those models.
I may even start a small fluff Army (1000 points for starters) just to have the "beer and pretzels" type of game with them.
I have no doubts it will be fun to play and that's what I'm looking for mostly as casual player. I do hope we get to be the troll army again. It was great back in the day when all your Warriors got up, Monoliths were indestructible, invulnerable saves could be ignored, and so on.
Even if I couldn't win screwing with the opponent was fun enough. So far things like the Tachyon Arrows, Entropic Strike, Orikan/C'tan terrain shenangins, etc. lead me to believe some gimmicky/trollish stuff might still be around, and I'm happy about that.
But am I going to keep losing? Well probably. Just maybe slightly less so than before.
37325
Post by: Adam LongWalker
@asimo77
Slightly less? Naaa, nobody really loses in a beer and pretzels game.
After several six packs and some buffalo wings, all of those little models looks the same and the winners are those that do not fall flat on their faces while playing.
28692
Post by: The Metal Tide
tetrisphreak wrote:azazel the cat wrote:
And to whoever was hoping the pessimists wouldn't find flaws with the Doomsday Ark: That was one of the first disappointments. If you move it, its range drops to 24", S7 small blast. And I believe turning it counts as moving, if I'm not mistaken.
I'll double-check my BRB when I get time but i'm 99 percent sure that pivoting a vehicle on the spot without moving it, the vehicle still counts as stationary.
Page 57 BRB in the paragraph to the left of roads. Pivoting on the spot does not count as moving
50962
Post by: Ruan
From BoLS forum...
Krittoris wrote:Entropic strike: any model that suffers one or more unsaved wounds from a weapon or model with this special rule means it loses its armour save for the duration of the game (effectively altering the models armour save to '-')
In addition to this effect for each hit a vehicle suffers from a weapon or model with this rule, roll a d6, for each result of 4+ it immidiately loses 1 point of armour value from all facing. Once the armour is reduced to 0 on even 1 facing or side the vehicle is immediately wrecked.
and Overlord loadout options...
Krittoris wrote:free, hyperphase sword - power weapon.
10 points voidblade - cc weapon with rending and entropic strike.
5 points, gauntlet of fire - cc weapon w/ reroll to hit and wound, also shoots (template, s4, ap5)
10 points, warscythe - 2handed power weapon, +2 strength, 2d6 armour pen.
15 points, phylactery - on the first reanimation protocol roll the model has to take, returns with d3 wounds if he passes.
15 points, sempiternal weave - 2+ armour save.
20 points, tesseract labrynth - one use only, choose a character or monstorus creature in base contact, that player must roll a d6 and have a roll under the model's remaining wounds or it is removed as a casualty with no saves of any kind allowed.
15 points, phase shifter - 3+ invulnerable save.
30 points, tacyon arrow - one use, (unlimited, s10, ap1, assault 1)
15 points, mindshackle scarabs - opponents model in combat takes a 3d6 leadership test, if he fails he strikes his own unit with d3 attacks when its his turn in combat, gaining all bonuses he would normally have.
30 points, resurrection orb - the unit the overlord is with get there 'reanimation protocol' rolls on a 4+ instead of 5+.
47494
Post by: GiantSlingshot
Ruan wrote:From BoLS forum... Krittoris wrote:Entropic strike: any model that suffers one or more unsaved wounds from a weapon or model with this special rule means it loses its armour save for the duration of the game (effectively altering the models armour save to '-')
In addition to this effect for each hit a vehicle suffers from a weapon or model with this rule, roll a d6, for each result of 4+ it immidiately loses 1 point of armour value from all facing. Once the armour is reduced to 0 on even 1 facing or side the vehicle is immediately wrecked.
Welp, there you have it. You must roll a d6 after the hit, and then it immediately loses the armor. Sweetness.
2969
Post by: neiltj1
tetrisphreak wrote:Still no info from codex-owners about entropic strike?
Does the -1 to the AV happen before, or after penetration rolls occur?
"...For each hit a vehicle suffers from a weapon or models with this rule, roll a d6. For each result of 4+, it immediately loses 1 point of armor value from all facings"
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Post by: tetrisphreak
Amazing. Scarabs were good vs vehicles in my mind before, now taking them is a no-brainer.
Send them up turn 1 under the cover of night-fight. turn 2 let the waves crash against the metal boxes and put the enemy's boots on the ground. Fan-tastic!
50358
Post by: Ruler of Chaos
does that mean they roll to hit. then check to see how many of those hits causes the Armour to go down. Then they use there strength on the new lowered armour?
41743
Post by: JoeyHeadwounds
I'm not sure why, but I think this looks almost like some kind of robotic Tyranid.... Will be waiting for pics of the actual model as I think it might have some conversion potential.
32190
Post by: asimo77
Wow, just after I posted that every unit we've seen eventually gets marred by small rules clauses, and other caveats, the Scarabs get a boost.
The universe works in mysterious ways I guess. Automatically Appended Next Post: Adam LongWalker wrote:@asimo77
Slightly less? Naaa, nobody really loses in a beer and pretzels game.
After several six packs and some buffalo wings, all of those little models looks the same and the winners are those that do not fall flat on their faces while playing.
Man your games sound way more fun than mine! I should head over to your place next time
47494
Post by: GiantSlingshot
Looking at a cell phone camera shot of the page with the special rules, it's even more cut and dry than the summary the BoLS poster gave.
Also new info compared to the front page, the Scarabs are A4, in case anyone missed it.
5 attacks on the charge. No longer miff'd about RP.
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Post by: Zachilles
@Joey
I've already coined the term Robo-Raveners for the new wraiths
50962
Post by: Ruan
Ruler of Chaos wrote:does that mean they roll to hit. then check to see how many of those hits causes the Armour to go down. Then they use there strength on the new lowered armour?
That's how it seems to be worded. I'll definitely be getting my own copy of the codex tomorrow, so I'll be able to confirm then.
Heck. If I'm reading this right, you don't need to worry about strength on the lowered armor - you might end up scrapping it purely from eating it to a wreck.
24153
Post by: tetrisphreak
Ruler of Chaos wrote:does that mean they roll to hit. then check to see how many of those hits causes the Armour to go down. Then they use there strength on the new lowered armour?
That is how it reads to me (and others who have actually *seen* the book). I'm hoping to pick mine up tomorrow when it ships to my FLGS. Anybody else think they made scarabs full of awesome because you need to buy a box of 12 warriors for every 3 (or 4) swarms of them?
50358
Post by: Ruler of Chaos
Also why would a overlord want
10 points voidblade - cc weapon with rending and entropic strike.
over
10 points, warscythe - 2handed power weapon, +2 strength, 2d6 armour pen.
am I missing something?
32190
Post by: asimo77
Well judging from the Praetorians the Voidblade is one handed, so if you can get a pistol (Particle Caster?) on the Overlord that's an extra attack.
But honestly Warscythes seem like the best choice.
47494
Post by: GiantSlingshot
It's really made no clearer by reading the book, neiltj1 quoted any mention of vehicles word for word from the book.
Related... It goes out of it's way to mention that Armor save reduction lasts 'til the end of the game... but it doesn't say that about the reduced AV values.
Man. 1 day before launch, and I already need an FAQ.
Edit: In relation to entropic strike*
50883
Post by: Arandmoor
Ruan wrote:
15 points, mindshackle scarabs - opponents model in combat takes a 3d6 leadership test, if he fails he strikes his own unit with d3 attacks when its his turn in combat, gaining all bonuses he would normally have.
30 points, resurrection orb - the unit the overlord is with get there 'reanimation protocol' rolls on a 4+ instead of 5+.
Question: Can mindshackle scarabs be used every turn of close combat? Or is it a one-use item or something? 'cause that's going to be tons of fun in CCs vs. a hidden power fist.
Also, are you saying they DROPPED the price of the rez orb by 10 points? I don't even care that it doesn't have a range or anything considering the minor lords are basically sergeants now (and I tend to field large units for WBB abuse anyway).
Also, a question for anyone with a codex...
What's the exact wording for the wraith upgrade that reduces an opponent's initiative? I want to know if they would be a good match for a unit of lychgard with warscythes...
9922
Post by: The Grundel
Anyone else relieved that there ISN'T a crazy nuts uber unit? I mean seriously, I'd much rather have an army that synergized then one or 2 units that carried that rest of the army.
Any idea when Wave 2 is going to drop?
47494
Post by: GiantSlingshot
Another question... Say you have a unit reserved to deepstrike in with their nightscythe. Nightscythe mishaps, rolls a 1, gets destroyed. Unit inside also fried?
50962
Post by: Ruan
If I remember the rules spoiled here right (don't have a codex yet), when the Nightscythe is destroyed, the troops it is 'carrying' get sent to Reserves, and have to come in as a Reserve (can't Deep Strike in, even if unit would normally be able to).
45362
Post by: hollowmirror
The Grundel wrote:Anyone else relieved that there ISN'T a crazy nuts uber unit? I mean seriously, I'd much rather have an army that synergized then one or 2 units that carried that rest of the army.
Any idea when Wave 2 is going to drop?
actually If you wanted a uber unit I could see Nemesor Zahndrekh, his body guard, a full 5 man unit of warscythe wielding 2+/3++ lords all attached to a unit of lychgaurd with the 4+ shields and power swords.
based on a general idea of what things are costing point wise the whole unit would be a 12 man unit that ringed in at around 1100 - 1200 points (lychgaurd at 45*5, lords I put around 95 points a piece and I rounded both lords combined at around 350 for the pair.
but for all of that the unit is entirely base str5, toughness 5, half have 2+/3+ with +2 strength power weapons and the other half have 3+/4+ with a power weapon and the ability to reflect successful invul saves.
you also get the ghost mantle veil and the ability to choose a special rule each turn (probably furious charge)
actually if you wanted to go all out you could add a res orb and some labrynths to the lords and to give the whole unit 4+ return rolls. And finally more then half the models in the unit have the everliving rule.
50962
Post by: Ruan
hollowmirror wrote:The Grundel wrote:Anyone else relieved that there ISN'T a crazy nuts uber unit? I mean seriously, I'd much rather have an army that synergized then one or 2 units that carried that rest of the army.
Any idea when Wave 2 is going to drop?
actually If you wanted a uber unit I could see Nemesor Zahndrekh, his body guard, a full 5 man unit of warscythe wielding 2+/3++ lords all attached to a unit of lychgaurd with the 4+ shields and power swords.
based on a general idea of what things are costing point wise the whole unit would be a 12 man unit that ringed in at around 1000 points (lychgaurd at 45*5, lords I put around 85 points a piece and I rounded both lords combined at around 350 for the pair.
but for all of that the unit is entirely base str5, toughness 5, half have 2+/3+ with +2 strength power weapons and the other half have 3+/4+ with a power weapon and the ability to reflect successful invul saves.
you also get the ghost mantle veil and the ability to choose a special rule each turn (probably furious charge)
Heh, I was thinking of that myself. For that matter, take just one of those necron lords with a Rez Orb so even if they do manage to kill one of them, they get a RP 4+.
45362
Post by: hollowmirror
Oh yeah. add some monoliths and you can start zipping around the field left and right.
oh or you could go all out and add one more Overlord with a cryptek following the storm taking the wargear lightning field that gives (Enemy units assaulting the Cryptek's unit immediately suffer D6, S8, AP5 hits) and add as many more lords all with scythes or add interesting buffs with crypteks maybe some eldritch lances and some tremorstaves.
21610
Post by: Sectiplave
hollowmirror wrote:Oh yeah. add some monoliths and you can start zipping around the field left and right.
\
And a unit of coil Wraiths so you strike first
That'd be about as elite as you could make an army I'd say.
I'd love to run that in a few fun games just to see how it turns out
45362
Post by: hollowmirror
wow the more I think about it the better that unit could get you could take a cryptek that gives defensive grenades (gaze of flame) that way no unit gets bonus attacks for assaulting you. and you could take the unit in a nightscythe since it allows even jump infantry and jetbikes It should be able to fit at least the 12 I said at first if not a full 15 model max.
34618
Post by: Cryage
come saturday, anybody else going to miss the awesome necron community this thread has spawned ? :(
Think we'll need to have an official "2011 Necron strategy" thread in the 40k general section
50302
Post by: shadzinator
come saturday, anybody else going to miss the awesome necron community this thread has spawned ? :(
Think we'll need to have an official "2011 Necron strategy" thread in the 40k general section
we have to make it 200 pages first. I think 1 strategy thread would be inefficient. You'd need to have one for each build probably, like destroyer wing, scarab swam ect.
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Post by: Lord_Mortis
Arandmoor wrote:Also, a question for anyone with a codex...
What's the exact wording for the wraith upgrade that reduces an opponent's initiative? I want to know if they would be a good match for a unit of lychgard with warscythes...
Minus the fluff part, the rule is: "Whilst any enemy model is in base contact with a model with whip coils they count their initiative value as 1, regardless of their actual initiative value."
Picked my Codex up today!
30294
Post by: Nightbringer's Chosen
Lord_Mortis wrote:Minus the fluff part, the rule is: "Whilst any enemy model is in base contact with a model with whip coils they count their initiative value as 1, regardless of their actual initiative value."
:O
Hooray for wording allowing abuse of C'Tan manifestation abilities!
19975
Post by: Sigmatron
What's the base cost of an Overlord and Tomb Spyder?
43032
Post by: King Pariah
Overlord 90
Tomb Spyder 50
21610
Post by: Sectiplave
Lord_Mortis wrote:Minus the fluff part, the rule is: "Whilst any enemy model is in base contact with a model with whip coils they count their initiative value as 1, regardless of their actual initiative value."
Cool, that sounds like it should over ride any initiative boosting wargear or skills also
22761
Post by: Kurgash
JoeyHeadwounds wrote:
I'm not sure why, but I think this looks almost like some kind of robotic Tyranid.... Will be waiting for pics of the actual model as I think it might have some conversion potential.
Hey look at that! Same speculation when the Tomb Stalker came out last year. Funny how if something robotic has an insectoid appearance it immediately is labeled a Tyranid look alike...
43032
Post by: King Pariah
Lord_Mortis wrote:Arandmoor wrote:Also, a question for anyone with a codex...
What's the exact wording for the wraith upgrade that reduces an opponent's initiative? I want to know if they would be a good match for a unit of lychgard with warscythes...
Minus the fluff part, the rule is: "Whilst any enemy model is in base contact with a model with whip coils they count their initiative value as 1, regardless of their actual initiative value."
Picked my Codex up today!
Can you say Furious Charge, DENIED!!! (partially)
36277
Post by: The Decapitator
Infantry counts as 1 model, Jump Infantry as 2 and Jetbikes as 5 for transport in a Nightscythe.
Just getting that out there for everyone
23433
Post by: schadenfreude
Ruler of Chaos wrote:does that mean they roll to hit. then check to see how many of those hits causes the Armour to go down. Then they use there strength on the new lowered armour?
Unless the codex is very specific about the AV going down before or after the hit is resolved it's going to be an ugly debate.
If it does any vehicle that is hit on a 4+ or better is as good as wrecked as a mere 12 attacks=6 hits=3 points off rear armor= 6 str3 hits versus AV7 on the rear=the same as 6 str6 hits versus an av10 rear. That's only 12 attacks from scarabs, and they have what 3 or 4 attacks on the charge?
If the AV is lowered after the S3 hits are resolved the vehicle has 1 turn to live. A rhino with an AV8 in the front and side arc won't last long against the massive amount of S4 firepower in a necron army.
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Post by: Cryage
Was just thinking, tie up some enemies with wraiths and knock them down to initiative 1 with whip coils... then charge with 20 flayed ones = 80 attacks....
50883
Post by: Arandmoor
Lord_Mortis wrote:Arandmoor wrote:Also, a question for anyone with a codex...
What's the exact wording for the wraith upgrade that reduces an opponent's initiative? I want to know if they would be a good match for a unit of lychgard with warscythes...
Minus the fluff part, the rule is: "Whilst any enemy model is in base contact with a model with whip coils they count their initiative value as 1, regardless of their actual initiative value." Picked my Codex up today!
So...this means that if I assault an enemy unit of...say...Paladins with a unit of wraiths and a unit of Lychguard packing warscythes, any paladin in b2b contact with a wraith goes after the lychguard have attacked? It's not something like "only if they attack the wraiths"? THIS IS IMPORTANT!!! Automatically Appended Next Post: schadenfreude wrote:
If it does any vehicle that is hit on a 4+ or better is as good as wrecked as a mere 12 attacks=6 hits=3 points off rear armor= 6 str3 hits versus AV7 on the rear=the same as 6 str6 hits versus an av10 rear. That's only 12 attacks from scarabs, and they have what 3 or 4 attacks on the charge?
...actually...they have 5 on the assault... Automatically Appended Next Post: Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:
:O
Hooray for wording allowing abuse of C'Tan manifestation abilities!
What C'Tan? This is a wraith upgrade
34618
Post by: Cryage
Any word on frag grenades of any sort? I mean I2 it won't matter MUCH , but every little bit helps
32190
Post by: asimo77
The Cryptek's Gaze of Flame gives the unit assault and defense grenades. It's under Harbinger of Destruction.
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Post by: Arandmoor
asimo77 wrote:The Cryptek's Gaze of Flame gives the unit assault and defense grenades. It's under Harbinger of Destruction.
Is it also a lord upgrade?
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Post by: Nightbringer's Chosen
Arandmoor wrote:What C'Tan? This is a wraith upgrade
Any C'Tan. Any one that takes the "roll under your Initiative or be sucked into oblivion" ability, anyway.
Wouldn'tve worked if the Whip Coils said "attacks as if its initiative was 1", but since it counts its initiative as 1, you can coil them up and then exile them to a cold abyssal void.
43032
Post by: King Pariah
Arandmoor wrote:asimo77 wrote:The Cryptek's Gaze of Flame gives the unit assault and defense grenades. It's under Harbinger of Destruction.
Is it also a lord upgrade?
No
21610
Post by: Sectiplave
Wraiths will certainly be useful, but remember that anything above 5 unit squad is going to be hard to get them all into being base to base with a Wraith itself. So you will still have people hiding in the second row striking at normal I. The fast attack slot is too contested to be able to take two small units of Wraiths to try max out on this I think.
Going to be at my FLGS first thing tomorrow morning, to buy the codex and run away to hide somewhere and read it
27644
Post by: Nightsbane
Three things, and I really hope some of you pay attention to this:
1. You cannot simply look at numbers and make judgments. Buy all the Grey Knights you want, if you are an idiot you will most often lose to the worst codex. Back when I was a WM/H nut there was a Cryx player in our group that lost every single game he ever played.
2. 6th edition is coming. NONE of us know what it will contain, damn the rumors. I bet that once it drops the same trolls will cry "OVERPOWERED NECRONS PLEASE NERF!!!shift111!"
3. The next one of you that posts about Wraiths being I2 and ignores the whip coils mentioned 2000 times a week, and I am going to devote the rest of my life to becoming an ancient space god to trick and enslave a race, and turn them into soulless T-100s to rid the entire universe of life. At that point it will have been worth it.
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Post by: darkslife
Nightsbane wrote:
3. The next one of you that posts about Wraiths being I2 and ignores the whip coils mentioned 2000 times a week, and I am going to devote the rest of my life to becoming an ancient space god to trick and enslave a race, and turn them into soulless T-100s to rid the entire universe of life. At that point it will have been worth it.
This I have to see.
So, um, yeah, wraiths are only init 2, they really suck now...
Also, I do like the idea of wraith/c'tan massive abuse, but paladins are doomsday ark fodder.
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Post by: haroon
Nightsbane wrote:3. The next one of you that posts about Wraiths being I2 and ignores the whip coils mentioned 2000 times a week, and I am going to devote the rest of my life to becoming an ancient space god to trick and enslave a race, and turn them into soulless T-100s to rid the entire universe of life. At that point it will have been worth it.
Its only the models in base contact, any tyranid player can tell you it makes little difference. The model not in base contact will crush the wraths at their normal initiative. I think the codex is great, but wraiths just are not good imo, especially if they dont get RP.
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Post by: Deathly Angel
Doom Scythe: Night Scythe: 
 These are awesome. I don't like the visible crew though; the flyer should be piloting itself. It can hopefully be fixed with a minor conversion though. Reminds me too much of this: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440291a&prodId=prod1090208 Triarch Stalker:
This looks interesting, but again, why is the pilot necessary? Tomb Blade:
These look like cooler destroyers. Canoptek Wraith: Canoptek Spyder: 
These two are my favourite units I've seen in this thread, could the second one be a replacement for the Tomb Spyder? and the special Character Illuminor Szeras: 
I take that back, THIS is my favourite ond. I would buy this character just to paint when it gets a model. A very original concept, though I hope he won't look too Egyptian... I really hope he would have the aesthetic of the old Necron Lord. Automatically Appended Next Post: I'd also hope that GW releases models for all of these units, i like the concepts much more than the first wave.
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Post by: Sectiplave
haroon wrote:but wraiths just are not good imo, especially if they dont get RP.
Wraiths are constructs, they do NOT get RP. The new Wraiths stat-line is very reasonable for 35 points. You don't throw these guys at high strength close combat units, they have better options. With rending they are even better at opening up transports than the old Wraiths were (they were effective), and with double the squad size and extra wound which makes up for not having RP, they can easily take on regular infantry and even tar pit other assault units that are not deathstars. Used in the right situations these new Wraiths are pretty good as I see it.
IRT Deathly Angel;
You could probably slip a deathmark head on that Cryptek Stalker, I agree it has the potential to be an damned awesome model that could be 'counts as' destroyer lord in friendly matches
I guess the vehicles need a pilot or they are then needing to be controlled by a local Tomb Spyder or the Tomb world mind itself? I do also think the Necron pilots on the command barge look out of place also, and will be modelling them so they are fused into the vehicle itself from the waist down. Could do the same for the stalker and flier, whats stopping them from winning the battle and putting their legs back on?
27644
Post by: Nightsbane
I guess I just don't see why the concept is so difficult... You don't throw wraiths at thick units you can't Btb, they are not assault termies, they are a pinpoint, defensive unit as I see them. Like the rest of the necron dex it is meant to be multiple threat rather than death star delivery. The whole point is making the enemy's butthole pucker over what they should kill.
Stick, move, and special ability.
That amount of forethought should be enough to completely befuddle 75% of MEQ players.
50379
Post by: zacharia
I guess the vehicles need a pilot or they are then needing to be controlled by a local Tomb Spyder or the Tomb world mind itself?
The point is why build a machine that needs a pilot/driver when you can build machines that dont (such as spiders, wraiths, scarabs and forgeworld tomb stalkers and pylons)
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Post by: Nightsbane
darkslife wrote:Nightsbane wrote:
3. The next one of you that posts about Wraiths being I2 and ignores the whip coils mentioned 2000 times a week, and I am going to devote the rest of my life to becoming an ancient space god to trick and enslave a race, and turn them into soulless T-100s to rid the entire universe of life. At that point it will have been worth it.
This I have to see.
So, um, yeah, wraiths are only init 2, they really suck now...
Also, I do like the idea of wraith/c'tan massive abuse, but paladins are doomsday ark fodder.
It's on now. When the universe ends you will have no one to blame but yourself. You will have plenty of time to think on it in your warrior shell for all eternity.
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Post by: haroon
Sectiplave wrote:haroon wrote:but wraiths just are not good imo, especially if they dont get RP.
Wraiths are constructs, they do NOT get RP. The new Wraiths stat-line is very reasonable for 35 points. You don't throw these guys at high strength close combat units, they have better options. With rending they are even better at opening up transports than the old Wraiths were (they were effective), and with double the squad size and extra wound which makes up for not having RP, they can easily take on regular infantry and even tar pit other assault units that are not deathstars. Used in the right situations these new Wraiths are pretty good as I see it.
Thats exactly the problem, another situational unit. You could make plenty of arguments on how mandrakes are good and dont "throw these guys at high strength close combat units" and how mandrakes are good in certain situations because of X, Y, Z but in the end they are just both bad units for the points imo.
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Post by: Nightsbane
Those necron flyers don't look like stargate, it's this all the way:
http://squaremodels.com/images/raider1.jpg
I've thought that since the first rumored sketch. Fits the theme much more than stargate too.
19754
Post by: puma713
Sectiplave wrote:
Cool, that sounds like it should over ride any initiative boosting wargear or skills also
How so?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lord_Mortis wrote:
Minus the fluff part, the rule is: "Whilst any enemy model is in base contact with a model with whip coils they count their initiative value as 1, regardless of their actual initiative value."
That sounds like things that affect Initiative still work. For instance, Carnifexes - they would still receive their bonuses when they charge, because they are simply counting their "initiative value" as 1 (which it already is).\
It is reducing their "iniative value", not their actual initiative. A normal marine assaulting a Wraith would reduce his Iniative value to 1. Meaning he would have I1. Then, if he also had Furious Charge, he would take his Initiative Value and add 1.
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Post by: Nightbringer's Chosen
Nightsbane wrote:3. The next one of you that posts about Wraiths being I2 and ignores the whip coils mentioned 2000 times a week, and I am going to devote the rest of my life to becoming an ancient space god to trick and enslave a race, and turn them into soulless T-100s to rid the entire universe of life. At that point it will have been worth it.
Why is this not in your sig yet?
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Post by: Nightsbane
Fixed
19754
Post by: puma713
And Illuminor Szeras looks like Osmosis Jones.
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Post by: Kreedos
Are vehicles 0-1? I heard at some point they were.
45362
Post by: hollowmirror
preatorians are fearless.
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Post by: Sectiplave
Ahhh damn you are right Puma, I read it wrong, +I stuff will indeed work :(
IRT Haroon;
I think there will be enough situations available for the new Wraiths that they will earn their keep. The only time I found the old Wraiths sitting around twiddling their 'thumbs' when I wasn't playing smart and thinking a turn ahead.
Looking at these units by themselves isn't really ideal for an army that needs to use synergy, like I said before the hardest part for this codex will be finding that right balance of units that work well together, I don't think Wraiths will be one of those units left out in the cold, but it really depends what else is going into the list.
661
Post by: Leggy
Kurgash wrote:JoeyHeadwounds wrote:
I'm not sure why, but I think this looks almost like some kind of robotic Tyranid.... Will be waiting for pics of the actual model as I think it might have some conversion potential.
Hey look at that! Same speculation when the Tomb Stalker came out last year. Funny how if something robotic has an insectoid appearance it immediately is labeled a Tyranid look alike...
Possibly because the picture is so similar to the artwork for The Red Terror. There's just slightly fewer teeth
36397
Post by: Defeatmyarmy
One of the most broken things in the army:
The Doom Scythe
Death Ray roll 3D6 for range "Every unit friend or foe suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit underneath the line." Its max strength, lowest ap. Great for ID T5 multi wounds creatures if lined up correctly. Now it just needs to be released.
30294
Post by: Nightbringer's Chosen
Defeatmyarmy wrote:One of the most broken things in the army:
The Doom Scythe
Death Ray roll 3D6 for range "Every unit friend or foe suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit underneath the line." Its max strength, lowest ap. Great for ID T5 multi wounds creatures if lined up correctly. Now it just needs to be released.
Personally quite looking forward to both Scythes.
Though be careful; no Quantum Shielding means they're going to have to zip in (and that gun is close range), fire, and zip out fast.
Speaking of other units, I'm even less excited about the Tomb Blades now that I've seen the art. Immortals that move a bit faster and have their guns twin-linked, and have to pay more to get Immortal-level armor? Meh. The BS5 upgrade isn't too important, since their guns are twin-linked. Stealth is odd, since Jetbikes can crash in difficult terrain and they're not going to be hiding behind our other troops moving 6". Maybe if the models looked awesome I'd get a squad, but....eh, just not eager for them.
38418
Post by: darkslife
On a AV 11/11/11 vehicle with no quantum shielding.
Fragile as hell.
30294
Post by: Nightbringer's Chosen
I'll likely have the Codex in my hands tomorrow, but I'm still eager:
Can anyone with the Codex clarify whether a unit can have only one Court-ly character period, or whether you can assign a character from each Court you have taken to each unit?
661
Post by: Leggy
Speaking of other units, I'm even less excited about the Tomb Blades now that I've seen the art. Immortals that move a bit faster and have their guns twin-linked, and have to pay more to get Immortal-level armor? Meh. The BS5 upgrade isn't too important, since their guns are twin-linked. Stealth is odd, since Jetbikes can crash in difficult terrain and they're not going to be hiding behind our other troops moving 6". Maybe if the models looked awesome I'd get a squad, but....eh, just not eager for them.
Turboboosting gives a cover save. That makes stealth VERY powerful on jetbikes.
9345
Post by: Lukus83
darkslife wrote:On a AV 11/11/11 vehicle with no quantum shielding.
Fragile as hell.
I'm foreseeing some nasty tricks with this combined with night-fighting. It certainly seems like the Necrons are an army with lots of utility which allows for some masterful 1 - 2 punches/combos. Consider this. Enemy turn 1 night fight. They are eager to not get the butt end of the stick in a shooting match where they cannot see for 2 turns (thanks to Crypteks with Solar Pulse). Therefore the obvious move is to rush. But this then puts them in range of everything you have at your disposal (nicely putting Scarabs and the Doom Scythe in effective range) AND they have another turn of night fight to contend with after this. If they don't rush you then you get to go at them with your heavy hitters for 2 turns while dominating objective missions with manoeuvring or taking an early lead in KP games.
Looking forward to seeing the codex up close and personal like..
30294
Post by: Nightbringer's Chosen
Ahh, right. Forgot about that. (edit- 'that' being the turbo-boost note)
Hmm. I suppose it'll depend on how many points they are and how terrible the models are, then.
Also, is there a picture for Orikan the Diviner?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just noticed something: Staff of Light isn't a Power Weapon anymore?
14863
Post by: MasterSlowPoke
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:Ahh, right. Forgot about that. (edit- 'that' being the turbo-boost note)
Hmm. I suppose it'll depend on how many points they are and how terrible the models are, then.
Also, is there a picture for Orikan the Diviner?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just noticed something: Staff of Light isn't a Power Weapon anymore?
Tomb Blades don't seem all that great, you can buy a Destroyer for the price of two of them.
Orikan doesn't have a photo.
Staff of Light is just a ranged weapon now.
50379
Post by: zacharia
Defeatmyarmy wrote:One of the most broken things in the army:
The Doom Scythe
Death Ray roll 3D6 for range "Every unit friend or foe suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit underneath the line." Its max strength, lowest ap. Great for ID T5 multi wounds creatures if lined up correctly. Now it just needs to be released.
Its every unit under the line not every model. In other words each model under the line is hit, it has no extra effect on multi wound models they each take a single s10 ap1 hit.
E.g line hits 6 models in unit a and 3 in unit b. Unit a has 6 models under the line and takes 6 hits, unit b 3. Automatically Appended Next Post: Lukus83 wrote:darkslife wrote:On a AV 11/11/11 vehicle with no quantum shielding.
Fragile as hell.
I'm foreseeing some nasty tricks with this combined with night-fighting. It certainly seems like the Necrons are an army with lots of utility which allows for some masterful 1 - 2 punches/combos. Consider this. Enemy turn 1 night fight. They are eager to not get the butt end of the stick in a shooting match where they cannot see for 2 turns (thanks to Crypteks with Solar Pulse). Therefore the obvious move is to rush. But this then puts them in range of everything you have at your disposal (nicely putting Scarabs and the Doom Scythe in effective range) AND they have another turn of night fight to contend with after this. If they don't rush you then you get to go at them with your heavy hitters for 2 turns while dominating objective missions with manoeuvring or taking an early lead in KP games.
Looking forward to seeing the codex up close and personal like..
Unfortunately the trik with immotech and solar pulses to shoot in your turn and deny it for your opponent has been shown not to work. On immotechs description if night fighting is ended by any means including solar pulse it doesnt reactivate. So if you use solar pulse your first turn night fighting is off for the game, negating this bonus of immotech.
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Post by: Lukus83
No Imhotek, just Solar Pulses. They are pretty handy without him.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Because (if I read it correctly) Solar Pulses can also induce night fight.
30294
Post by: Nightbringer's Chosen
MasterSlowPoke wrote:Orikan doesn't have a photo.
Dammit. I hope he gets a model, rather than just having to dress up a Cryptek a bit differently. I'm quite interested in using him.
Are there any units in the Grey Knights or Dark Eldar books that don't have a photo but for which they have put out a model?
Edit: Oh, right, the Court of the Archon aliens. Well, that makes me hopeful...
50379
Post by: zacharia
Lukus83 wrote:No Imhotek, just Solar Pulses. They are pretty handy without him.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Because (if I read it correctly) Solar Pulses can also induce night fight.
true, but that way if they get first turn they can flatten you with their long range before you have chance to turn night fighting on. Immotech gives good chance to go first and night fighting is on even if you dont
2808
Post by: Task and Purpose
Defeatmyarmy wrote:One of the most broken things in the army:
The Doom Scythe
Death Ray roll 3D6 for range "Every unit friend or foe suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit underneath the line." Its max strength, lowest ap. Great for ID T5 multi wounds creatures if lined up correctly. Now it just needs to be released.
It's 1 shot IIRC.
30294
Post by: Nightbringer's Chosen
zacharia wrote:true, but that way if they get first turn they can flatten you with their long range before you have chance to turn night fighting on
You can use a Solar Pulse at the beginning of your turn to turn Night Fight off, or at the beginning of his to turn it on. Only reason you wouldn't be able to fire one off is if your Cryptek wasn't on the board yet, for like Dawn of War reployment or something. And then it would be Night Fight anyway.
So just don't keep your Pulse 'teks in reserve and you should be fine.
36277
Post by: The Decapitator
I'm not sure about this, I think it can be read in 2 ways:
Death Ray roll 3D6 for range "Every unit friend or foe suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the WHOLE unit WHICH IS underneath the line.
Or:
Death Ray roll 3D6 for range "Every unit friend or foe suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit DIRECTLY underneath the line."
If it is the latter, why not just say that for every model the line passes over you take 1 hit. Surely less ambiguous?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
And no it's not 1 shot, it's a standard weapon option for that vehicle.
21148
Post by: KOS
The rule is that if you TOUCH a unit, every model in the unit (friend or foe) will be rolled to hit.
Simple.
9345
Post by: Lukus83
Nope. It's only a hit per model underneath the line. That's how I'm reading it anyway.
44335
Post by: FalkorsRaiders
Anyone who has a codex, is there any named lord who hasn't been spoken about?
50341
Post by: Hox
Indeed
21148
Post by: KOS
truly is more simple guys come on.
They clearly say that if you cross a unit (friend or foe) even with only one miniature under the line, all models inside the unit gets one hit. Otherwise why would they insist on UNIT and MODEL ? If they wanted to say that only the units under the line are hit, then they really... REALLY messed up the entire thing and complicated it for no reason.
At least this is what I understand in the Italian translation.
Wich is the same where (in this awful codex) it states that the Imperial Guard uses the Hydras as vehicles that cross the skies (!!!).
"Armoured Anti-Aircraft Hydras and Defence Lasers crossed the skies" and I'm not kidding. I wish I would... it would not be painful.
36277
Post by: The Decapitator
When you use the BA psychic power Blood Lance, it's every model in the unit that the line goes over isn't it?
So I don't see why this would be any different.
I think that is they only mean models that are directly under the line then they have seriously over complicated it.
I'm pretty sure it's every model in the unit, that's how I'm going to play it anyway unless FAQ'd otherwise.
7637
Post by: Sasori
Can someone post the Exact wording?
3073
Post by: puree
The Decapitator wrote:
If it is the latter, why not just say that for every model the line passes over you take 1 hit. Surely less ambiguous?
I agree its very ambigous. but if it said what you say ...
"Every unit friend or foe suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models underneath the line"
You can hit multiple units, you have to differentiate which units take what number of hits, otheriwse you'd have all units taking hits equal to all the models under the line, not just the models under the line in that unit.
I think the reference to models in the unit is probably trying to say exatly that, it is meant to be hits equal to models under the line - in that unit.
But like I said, very unclear as to what is actually meant.
50341
Post by: Hox
"The unit takes wounds equal to the amount of models under the line"
48239
Post by: Xeriapt
The tomb blade art does look a little odd, wonder if the actual models will be decent.
The scythe flyers look pretty much how I expected (I like how they look), cant wait for those to come out.
7637
Post by: Sasori
Hox wrote:"The unit takes wounds equal to the amount of models under the line"
If that's the wording, then it seems pretty clear that it does not hit every model in a unit.
50341
Post by: Hox
Sasori wrote:Hox wrote:"The unit takes wounds equal to the amount of models under the line"
If that's the wording, then it seems pretty clear that it does not hit every model in a unit.
Yeah it definately does not. Honestly if you read the sentence and dont clearly get that, you may need to think about purchasing a helmet for everyday wear guys.
Something I find hilarious is it says the tomb blades aren't effected by gravity and such forces and can move in any direction without warning and they are more likely to fly around the battle doing corkscrews than in a straight line. This just sounds so ridiculous me. "You're army is assailed by spinning bikes that move like the old pipes screensaver for windows"
60
Post by: yakface
The Decapitator wrote:I'm not sure about this, I think it can be read in 2 ways:
Death Ray roll 3D6 for range "Every unit friend or foe suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the WHOLE unit WHICH IS underneath the line.
Or:
Death Ray roll 3D6 for range "Every unit friend or foe suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit DIRECTLY underneath the line."
If it is the latter, why not just say that for every model the line passes over you take 1 hit. Surely less ambiguous?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
And no it's not 1 shot, it's a standard weapon option for that vehicle.
It will ultimately have to be FAQ'd before everyone is happy, but really if you look at the wording there's a pretty strong indication of what they were trying to get across:
"Every unit friend or foe suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit underneath the line."
If they were trying to say that any unit touched by the line takes as many hits as it has models in the unit, then rule probably would have been written similar to this:
'Every unit touched by the line suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit.'
The fact that they bothered to write out 'number of models in the unit underneath the line' gives like a 90% chance ( IMHO) that they're only talking about hitting the actual number of models under the line.
You asked:
'If it is the latter, why not just say that for every model the line passes over you take 1 hit. Surely less ambiguous?'
How exactly would you write that to deal with multiple units? When you do, you end up writing basically exactly what they did.
43514
Post by: Blackgaze
Question about Tesla "Arks"
"... roll a D6 for each other unit (friendly, and enemy, engaged and ungaged) within 6" of the target..."
I understand for vehicles (hull) or stand alone targets (bases). But what about lots of models? Like a squad of Imperial Guardsmen? Do you have to aim 6" from the whole squad or one model?
If so, what model? Other than blasts, you don't choose the target, right?
48239
Post by: Xeriapt
I would imagine 6" from the unit as that is what you are targeting.
50584
Post by: raknosha
6" from the two closest models in the two units. And the if a third unit is there, also take the model of the original unit closest to that.
41998
Post by: angelshade00
What do you think about the new look on the Wraiths? It's not too bad, although I think I prefer the old look to the new one. Less robotic and faceless the old ones. Not that I'll not pick up a few when they come out...
50341
Post by: Hox
angelshade00 wrote:What do you think about the new look on the Wraiths? It's not too bad, although I think I prefer the old look to the new one. Less robotic and faceless the old ones. Not that I'll not pick up a few when they come out...
I think they look really cool! And with the fluff change they couldn't have stayed looking like necrons.
41998
Post by: angelshade00
Hox wrote:angelshade00 wrote:What do you think about the new look on the Wraiths? It's not too bad, although I think I prefer the old look to the new one. Less robotic and faceless the old ones. Not that I'll not pick up a few when they come out...
I think they look really cool! And with the fluff change they couldn't have stayed looking like necrons.
You have a point there. I can't wait for the 2nd wave!
Come to think of it, I can barely wait for tomorrow!
661
Post by: Leggy
If any model from the Target unit is within 6" of any model from another unit, that second unit can be hit.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Ok. Looks like Destroyer Lords can have Staffs of Light after all, not just Warscythes.
50341
Post by: Hox
Jesus... Obyron can get up to 9 warscythe attacks per turn. Thats pretty scary.
44335
Post by: FalkorsRaiders
Hox wrote:Something I find hilarious is it says the tomb blades aren't effected by gravity and such forces and can move in any direction without warning and they are more likely to fly around the battle doing corkscrews than in a straight line. This just sounds so ridiculous me. "You're army is assailed by spinning bikes that move like the old pipes screensaver for windows"
So basically, they do a barrel roll?
50341
Post by: Hox
FalkorsRaiders wrote:Hox wrote:Something I find hilarious is it says the tomb blades aren't effected by gravity and such forces and can move in any direction without warning and they are more likely to fly around the battle doing corkscrews than in a straight line. This just sounds so ridiculous me. "You're army is assailed by spinning bikes that move like the old pipes screensaver for windows"
So basically, they do a barrel roll?
Yes but all the time, no matter where they fly. Go type do a barrel roll into google.
44335
Post by: FalkorsRaiders
Hox wrote:FalkorsRaiders wrote:Hox wrote:Something I find hilarious is it says the tomb blades aren't effected by gravity and such forces and can move in any direction without warning and they are more likely to fly around the battle doing corkscrews than in a straight line. This just sounds so ridiculous me. "You're army is assailed by spinning bikes that move like the old pipes screensaver for windows"
So basically, they do a barrel roll?
Yes but all the time, no matter where they fly. Go type do a barrel roll into google.
Someone needs a good photo of the tomblades with the caption "do a barrel roll"
50315
Post by: Dr. Delorean
You're welcome.
1
44335
Post by: FalkorsRaiders
Dr. Delorean wrote:You're welcome.
thank you.
50315
Post by: Dr. Delorean
The joys of amateur picture modification using Paint.
50341
Post by: Hox
Now we just need annoying background chatter.
"HEY TOMB BLADE, I'M ON YOUR SIDE"
"TOMB BLADE, HELP ME"
"YOU'RE NOT GETTING AWAY THAT EASY"
"GO FOR THE 4 HATCHES ON ITS UNDERSIDE"
"DADDY SQUEALED REEEEEEEAL GOOD BEFORE HE DIED"
44335
Post by: FalkorsRaiders
Dr. Delorean wrote:The joys of amateur picture modification using Paint.
I know. hopefully there are better pictures in the codex. no insult to you, but i'd rather a better picture, maybe even in color.
50315
Post by: Dr. Delorean
"Alright, you know the drill lads, fly in a haphazard, random fashion, and give 'em hell!"
*silence"
"Er..umm...carry on."
50341
Post by: Hox
Anyone else wish slippy died in a fire?
The paint jobs in the codex are ridiculously awesome.
44335
Post by: FalkorsRaiders
Hox wrote:Anyone else wish slippy died in a fire?
The paint jobs in the codex are ridiculously awesome.
cant wait to get it. gonna finally paint my units cause i have a reason to.
181
Post by: gorgon
darkslife wrote:On a AV 11/11/11 vehicle with no quantum shielding.
Fragile as hell.
That (*IF* the 6th edition rumors are accurate) you'll need a 6 to hit with BS4 as long as it's outside of 12". So I'm not gonna judge it too much until next July. 
Like the art for the new stuff. Tomb Blades aren't quite what I expected, but they seem to have some nice design synergies with the Barges.
49728
Post by: Farquestor
Did anybody else read the batrep and just get floored by Trazyn's just flat-out arrogance? I'm gonna run him SOLELY for that reason.
41743
Post by: JoeyHeadwounds
Leggy wrote:Kurgash wrote:JoeyHeadwounds wrote:
I'm not sure why, but I think this looks almost like some kind of robotic Tyranid.... Will be waiting for pics of the actual model as I think it might have some conversion potential.
Hey look at that! Same speculation when the Tomb Stalker came out last year. Funny how if something robotic has an insectoid appearance it immediately is labeled a Tyranid look alike...
Possibly because the picture is so similar to the artwork for The Red Terror. There's just slightly fewer teeth
I wasn't saying Tyranid lookalike, just noticed some similarities. As a matter of fact, there is a creature in the Tyranid codex on page 24 called the Catachan Devil that looks like a cross between a Tyranid and a centipede.
It's fluff piece sure, but it would still be an interesting conversion.
39742
Post by: Blood Angel 17
We do not condone theft of intellectual property. Do not ask again. - Lorek
50832
Post by: Sigvatr
Blood Angel 17 wrote:Does anyone have a link to a website where I can get a pdf of the codex?
I don't know if you are serious about asking people to give you illegal links... Concerning the Tomb Blades, I'm kind of confused. If they ignore forces such a gravity, why would they ever want to end their movement hovering just above the ground? Why don't they just stay high up in the air and only come down to strike at their foes and immediately get up again?
50341
Post by: Hox
Sigvatr wrote:Blood Angel 17 wrote:Does anyone have a link to a website where I can get a pdf of the codex?
I don't know if you are serious about asking people to give you illegal links...
Concerning the Tomb Blades, I'm kind of confused. If they ignore forces such a gravity, why would they ever want to end their movement hovering just above the ground? Why don't they just stay high up in the air and only come down to strike at their foes and immediately get up again?
They do. They are actually spacefighting craft. Designed to be used in 10-100s, the pilots are immune to the effects of vacuum of space. Using them on land battles is an afterthought.
50763
Post by: copper.talos
They have fear of heights...
39742
Post by: Blood Angel 17
Hox wrote:Sigvatr wrote:Blood Angel 17 wrote:Does anyone have a link to a website where I can get a pdf of the codex?
I don't know if you are serious about asking people to give you illegal links...
Concerning the Tomb Blades, I'm kind of confused. If they ignore forces such a gravity, why would they ever want to end their movement hovering just above the ground? Why don't they just stay high up in the air and only come down to strike at their foes and immediately get up again?
I wasnt asking for illegal links, there are some websites that show books on the internet such as scribd.
50341
Post by: Hox
Blood Angel 17 wrote:Hox wrote:Sigvatr wrote:Blood Angel 17 wrote:Does anyone have a link to a website where I can get a pdf of the codex?
I don't know if you are serious about asking people to give you illegal links...
Concerning the Tomb Blades, I'm kind of confused. If they ignore forces such a gravity, why would they ever want to end their movement hovering just above the ground? Why don't they just stay high up in the air and only come down to strike at their foes and immediately get up again?
I wasnt asking for illegal links, there are some websites that show books on the internet such as scribd.
Yes you were its illegal to even put up on scribd. Someone as intelligent as yourself probably knows the advanced search tab in google allows you to search for pages only made in the last 24 hrs. If say you needed to find something recent like a news story, this could be helpful.
5841
Post by: Bylak
Looking for an e-book version of the codex (like buying something for a kindle or kobo) is VERY different than asking for a pdf in this context. "Looking for a pdf" implies that you're looking for a stolen copy of the codex.
50832
Post by: Sigvatr
Guys, even scribd is illegal and violating copyright terms.
Hox wrote:They do. They are actually spacefighting craft. Designed to be used in 10-100s, the pilots are immune to the effects of vacuum of space. Using them on land battles is an afterthought.
I just wish the rules would represent this in any way, but meh, would be kind of imbalanced.
50341
Post by: Hox
After looking through the codex and seeing the flayed one pics, I realized it has reverse hinged legs. Thinking myself to be crazy, I went to look at the finecasts and the back one does infact have the extra leg parts. Has this come up yet?
Also the new flyers are going to be enormous judging by the pics. You can see the pilot on the doom scythe and he is quite small.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Doom Talon Blade things - whatever they're called - look so dopey.
50341
Post by: Hox
H.B.M.C. wrote:Doom Talon Blade things - whatever they're called - look so dopey.
Clearly the pilots are so bored they fell asleep.
50990
Post by: ShadarLogoth
Not sure in the the futility of responding to a post form 5 pages ago but here goes: (man this thread is moving fast)
They're not likely much of a tar pit as they have I2 and are not Fearless, so I would be expecting them to get swept quite often. Even at 3 attacks each, 5 Flayed Ones will suffer 3 casualties to 5 Tac Marines before the Necrons ever get to attack. The Flayed Ones will respond with 6 attacks, 3 hits and 1 wound. They're not tar pits; they're puddles.
Um...huh?
First, 5 Tac marines is closer to 6 Flayed ones in points cost. And you seem to be assuming (for some reason, probably because it supports your argument" that the Tac marines get the charge.
10(1/2)=5(1/2)=2.5(1/2)=1.25
So if 5 Flayed ones survive...
15(1/2)=7.5(1/2)=3.75(1/3)=1.2375
Pretty close to a draw on that one, and the Flayed ones haven't gotten their RP yet.
If 4 flayed ones survive...
12(1/2)=6(1/2)=3(1/3)=1 still pretty close to a draw.
Let me assume you meant Assault marines...
15(1/2)=7.5(1/2)=3.75(1/2)=1.875
So we'll assume 2 die, the aforementioned strike back with 4 flayed ones kills 1. rolling under a leadership 10-1 shouldn't be terribly difficult, then RP kicks in.
So um.... argument rendered immaterial, asinine, and trollish? And keep in mind that grant the Marines the charge in both cases.
My point stands, Flayed Ones will make an excellent tar-pit for anyone with the extra elite slots. A unit of 20 costs a paltry 260 points, and should be able to bog down a similarly valued CC squad for a few turns.
Question, I've seen this hinted at a few times...but what, if anything nullifies RP?
Edit: Grammars and typos>ShadarLogoth 
3073
Post by: puree
Couldn't see this on page 1, Do 'arc' weapons strike vehicles from the position of the firer or the position of the unit they arc'd from (can you shoot a unit beyond a tank and have it arc into its rear)?
27952
Post by: Swara
ShadarLogoth wrote:
Question, I've seen this hinted at a few times...but what, if anything nullifies RP?
Only completely destroying a unit or making them run nullifies RP.
50341
Post by: Hox
Aeonstaves... I think I'm in love. Tremorstaves... god I cant pick. All I know is... "Come here tyranids"
50990
Post by: ShadarLogoth
Swara wrote:ShadarLogoth wrote:
Question, I've seen this hinted at a few times...but what, if anything nullifies RP?
Only completely destroying a unit or making them run nullifies RP.
Wow. I mean wow. Awesome. Cronies are definitely going to be the MSU anti-thesis now.
44067
Post by: DarkStarSabre
Hox wrote:Aeonstaves... I think I'm in love. Tremorstaves... god I cant pick. All I know is... "Come here tyranids"
Tyranids: Sure. We'll come there. After we've finished mopping up the rest of your I2 army with our I5 core, I5 monsters and just in case we do come across something that can mess with our initiative we'll make it I1 too and make it take dangerous terrain checks to get close to us.
Have a nice day.
P.S. Large clusters of Necrons? Meet Spore Mines. Their AP4 and fuuuuuun.
50832
Post by: Sigvatr
@ShadarLogoth: I don't think that we can compare units in such a way. A tac squad has ranged weapons that can easily decimate a FO squad before they get into melee, that's why they are just about as expensive as the FO who are a CC-only unit.
Then again, I don't know what GW was smoking when they released the new FO. They are "meh" to "bad" units in the game itself and seriously, they are far, far, FAR away from being worth 35€ for 5 (!) miniatures. I don't even know what to say here. 35€ for 65 points? Well excuuuuuse me, princess.
26697
Post by: Lt. Coldfire
I'm not seeing any Necron P&M blogs or a bunch of Necron lists popping up in the 40k list section...  I am disappoint.
41864
Post by: Sunoccard
Lt. Coldfire wrote:I'm not seeing any Necron P&M blogs are a bunch of Necron lists popping up in the 40k list section...
I am dissapoint.
that's because release is technically tomorrow and most of don't have our stuff yet. ( gives me time to finish painting the necrons I do have)
50341
Post by: Hox
DarkStarSabre wrote:Hox wrote:Aeonstaves... I think I'm in love. Tremorstaves... god I cant pick. All I know is... "Come here tyranids"
Tyranids: Sure. We'll come there. After we've finished mopping up the rest of your I2 army with our I5 core, I5 monsters and just in case we do come across something that can mess with our initiative we'll make it I1 too and make it take dangerous terrain checks to get close to us.
Have a nice day.
P.S. Large clusters of Necrons? Meet Spore Mines. Their AP4 and fuuuuuun.
Good luck when every single one of your units is moving through dangerous terrain every single turn. GG
Edit: On the topic of flayed ones, pricing is stupid. In canada it would cost 1269.00 (Before 13% tax so 1434.00 with) to buy 1500 points worth of flayed ones. They run almost a dollar a point.
50990
Post by: ShadarLogoth
Sigvatr wrote:@ShadarLogoth: I don't think that we can compare units in such a way. A tac squad has ranged weapons that can easily decimate a FO squad before they get into melee, that's why they are just about as expensive as the FO who are a CC-only unit.
Then again, I don't know what GW was smoking when they released the new FO. They are "meh" to "bad" units in the game itself and seriously, they are far, far, FAR away from being worth 35€ for 5 (!) miniatures. I don't even know what to say here. 35€ for 65 points? Well excuuuuuse me, princess.
I was responding to somebody who used that squad specifically in a CC situation, but to your point bolters will be just tingeing of 4T 4+/5+, and any speciality weapons will increase the corresponding amount of flayed ones, and NOT take away RP no matter what the weapon is (WOOOHOO!). Of course either way we are looking at them in a restricted unrealistic box, the tac marines will probably have bigger fish to fry and the FOs, if used correctly, will be counter assaulting or bubble wrapping shooty units.
Point taken on the cost of the new models, I already have 20 metal models who I've always love aesthetically so I'm blessedly saved from such considerations (although I will probably buy one box just for funsies).
Math hammer 10 to 20 FOs against any respected assault unit of similar points and you'll see the FO's will hang around for a considerable amount of time to at least frustrate their target, and definitely should keep the assault units away from your more precious shooty units.
27952
Post by: Swara
Lt. Coldfire wrote:I'm not seeing any Necron P&M blogs or a bunch of Necron lists popping up in the 40k list section...
I am disappoint.
I'll write a list tonight, just for you.
1464
Post by: Breotan
Lt. Coldfire wrote:I'm not seeing any Necron P&M blogs are a bunch of Necron lists popping up in the 40k list section...
I am dissapoint.
26697
Post by: Lt. Coldfire
Yeah I edited, like... 13 minutes before you posted.
44067
Post by: DarkStarSabre
Hox wrote:
Good luck when every single one of your units is moving through dangerous terrain every single turn. GG
Gaunts are expendable, a large chunk have move through cover (hello rerolls!), same with the Monstrous Creatures!
48139
Post by: BarBoBot
Why not wait till you have played against the new dex to bash it eh?
50341
Post by: Hox
DarkStarSabre wrote:Hox wrote:
Good luck when every single one of your units is moving through dangerous terrain every single turn. GG
Gaunts are expendable, a large chunk have move through cover (hello rerolls!), same with the Monstrous Creatures!
I played nids for quite some time. This new necron codex looks like it will stomp 90% of the possible army compositions
49728
Post by: Farquestor
BarBoBot wrote:Why not wait till you have played against the new dex to bash it eh?
Its called smack talk... Its what our lessers do... lol
27952
Post by: Swara
Farquestor wrote:BarBoBot wrote:Why not wait till you have played against the new dex to bash it eh?
Its called smack talk... Its what our lessers do... lol
Isn't that when you try to talk when you're eating peanut butter?
6806
Post by: Gavin Thorne
Sunoccard wrote:Lt. Coldfire wrote:I'm not seeing any Necron P&M blogs are a bunch of Necron lists popping up in the 40k list section...
I am dissapoint.
that's because release is technically tomorrow and most of don't have our stuff yet. ( gives me time to finish painting the necrons I do have)
There may not be any new Necron tutes, but I've got two up there for now. Once I get my box of Immortals/Deathmarks, Warriors, and Ghost Ark, I'll be posting some new Necrons on the Cheap tutorials. If you really want Flayed Ones, buy Warriors and make the claws yourself, using the leftover blasters to make Gauss Immortals. I've already got an idea for making Tesla Immortals, just have to work it out.
50990
Post by: ShadarLogoth
About Lords and Crypteks, any restrictions on what units they can be attached to? And it would appear by all indications as they are not ICs they will be considered "upgrade" characters in said unit yes? Vary Secsie indeed.
48228
Post by: lazarian
DarkStarSabre wrote:Hox wrote:
Good luck when every single one of your units is moving through dangerous terrain every single turn. GG
Gaunts are expendable, a large chunk have move through cover (hello rerolls!), same with the Monstrous Creatures!
So your going to troll the rumor section of a book not even out yet and be extremely confident in light of virtually every unit selection in the Necron book being not just good, but a great counter to something in the Tyranid list... got it. In light of the Grey Knight and IG books both being reasonably auto win against bugs I'm glad you think they will have a solid matchup but... seriously.... wait till a few days after release to troll that your undefeatable against an unreleased army.
48139
Post by: BarBoBot
Lord and cryptek unit restrictions are in the summary on page 1 with all the other collected info.
Lords/crypteks limited to 1 per unit of warriors, Immortals, lychguard and deathmarks.
And of course they can form the royal court with the overlord also.
50341
Post by: Hox
lazarian wrote:DarkStarSabre wrote:Hox wrote:
Good luck when every single one of your units is moving through dangerous terrain every single turn. GG
Gaunts are expendable, a large chunk have move through cover (hello rerolls!), same with the Monstrous Creatures!
So your going to troll the rumor section of a book not even out yet and be extremely confident in light of virtually every unit selection in the Necron book being not just good, but a great counter to something in the Tyranid list... got it. In light of the Grey Knight and IG books both being reasonably auto win against bugs I'm glad you think they will have a solid matchup but... seriously.... wait till a few days after release to troll that your undefeatable against an unreleased army.
I'm sitting here with both full codexes in my hands. Thanks for coming out though, maybe think first or read back to see that I've been talking about things I've been reading in my codex. Derp.
This message is quite confusing and you may have been telling him off. Not sure. If that was the case my previous comment is void. Go about your business, these aren't the droids you're looking for.
24024
Post by: Marshal_Hadrial
Does the Phylactery work every time you roll for your IC to get back up? Or is it a 1 time only thing as well? Seems like there are a bit to many One Use things as far as gear for the Lords go.
50990
Post by: ShadarLogoth
BarBoBot wrote:Lord and cryptek unit restrictions are in the summary on page 1 with all the other collected info.
Lords/crypteks limited to 1 per unit of warriors, Immortals, lychguard and deathmarks.
And of course they can form the royal court with the overlord also.
Ah so it is, my bad, somehow after reading that a dozen times I still managed to miss that .
48139
Post by: BarBoBot
No worries, it's alot to take in. I have made the same mistake.
50341
Post by: Hox
Anyone as curious as I am why the deathmarks are said to be also CC assassins yet the statline and models dont reflect it at all?
48228
Post by: lazarian
Hox wrote:Anyone as curious as I am why the deathmarks are said to be also CC assassins yet the statline and models dont reflect it at all?
I think they are meant to counter deep striking assailants. They wont beat them in CC but they will counter CC units via rapid fire spam snipping.
50341
Post by: Hox
lazarian wrote:Hox wrote:Anyone as curious as I am why the deathmarks are said to be also CC assassins yet the statline and models dont reflect it at all?
I think they are meant to counter deep striking assailants. They wont beat them in CC but they will counter CC units via rapid fire spam snipping.
Fluff story has them teleport into a guard base and start slicing people up. Specifically says they used blades.
45994
Post by: $pider
From everything I am reading they look like they will be a fun army to play. As far as being competitive I am sure we will see the "uber internet lists" soon enough but my opinion is that they will be a strong army.
48228
Post by: lazarian
Hox wrote:lazarian wrote:Hox wrote:Anyone as curious as I am why the deathmarks are said to be also CC assassins yet the statline and models dont reflect it at all?
I think they are meant to counter deep striking assailants. They wont beat them in CC but they will counter CC units via rapid fire spam snipping.
Fluff story has them teleport into a guard base and start slicing people up. Specifically says they used blades.
hrmm well they will be in prime locations to counter people, especially if they can drag along a cc specialist from the court with them maybe.
38176
Post by: Griever
Hox wrote:lazarian wrote:Hox wrote:Anyone as curious as I am why the deathmarks are said to be also CC assassins yet the statline and models dont reflect it at all?
I think they are meant to counter deep striking assailants. They wont beat them in CC but they will counter CC units via rapid fire spam snipping.
Fluff story has them teleport into a guard base and start slicing people up. Specifically says they used blades.
They're essentially slow, reviving Tactical Marines in assault. More than enough to kill guardsmen.
50832
Post by: Sigvatr
Hmmm, I still wonder what the snipers will be worth. Unfortunately, they come in the same box as Immortals and thus make Immortals a lot more expensive than they should be despite Deathmarks being a lot weaker...then again, when I already have those spare parts, I wonder if I should assemble them in order to use Deathmarks one day or just try to sell them / trade them with others for Immortal parts (unlikely though).
The problem I currently see is that they are rather expensive, have a small range and Deepstriking might just get them close enough to be shot at in return...and 19 pts / model is really expensive...
Most of my enemies are MEQ and while the 2+ to wound is ok, their weapons only have AP5 and against a 3+ sv, they aren't really worth it imo.
50972
Post by: Scoffer
Anyone else considered fielding 120 warriors and a Lord in a 1,750 game?
or is it just me....
38176
Post by: Griever
Now I know why I spent that money on army builder. Trying to type out a list with an actual book is impossible. It takes at least one hand to hold the damn things open.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Sigvatr wrote:Hmmm, I still wonder what the snipers will be worth. Unfortunately, they come in the same box as Immortals and thus make Immortals a lot more expensive than they should be despite Deathmarks being a lot weaker...then again, when I already have those spare parts, I wonder if I should assemble them in order to use Deathmarks one day or just try to sell them / trade them with others for Immortal parts (unlikely though).
The problem I currently see is that they are rather expensive, have a small range and Deepstriking might just get them close enough to be shot at in return...and 19 pts / model is really expensive...
Most of my enemies are MEQ and while the 2+ to wound is ok, their weapons only have AP5 and against a 3+ sv, they aren't really worth it imo.
I don't really see myself using them at all. I do however, see myself using the heads that come in the box. They are really cool.
50832
Post by: Sigvatr
Yeah, but I'd have much preferred getting 10 Immortals over getting 5 Immortals and a lot of bitz to play around with.
24153
Post by: tetrisphreak
I plan on making lithe snipers using warrior bodies/ legs with deathmark heads/ guns
41864
Post by: Sunoccard
tetrisphreak wrote:I plan on making lithe snipers using warrior bodies/ legs with deathmark heads/ guns
i'll second this idea; very cheap, and really easy. Automatically Appended Next Post: Scoffer wrote:
Anyone else considered fielding 120 warriors and a Lord in a 1,750 game?
or is it just me....
That's the old codex win strategy, it could work, but you'll be lacking some much needed higher strength weapons and durable units. the warriors 4+/5+++ isn't going to be enough.
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Post by: Sigvatr
tetrisphreak wrote:I plan on making lithe snipers using warrior bodies/ legs with deathmark heads/ guns
Well yes, that's what I'd do too, but when I am not going to field them, I could just try to get rid of them in order to buy more (important) stuff. I'll get my codex tomorrow and will start buying more troops in December, until then, maybe people found a use for them or the FAQ suddenly makes them useful...
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Post by: Scoffer
Sunoccard wrote:
Scoffer wrote:
Anyone else considered fielding 120 warriors and a Lord in a 1,750 game?
or is it just me....
That's the old codex win strategy, it could work, but you'll be lacking some much needed higher strength weapons and durable units. the warriors 4+/5+++ isn't going to be enough.
Not really. Old codex would have got you maybe 80-90 warriors that were more durable than the new codex.
I just think it would look very intimidating to have that many warriors lined up in a silent wall of death while the lord sits behind them on his command barge looking impressive.....
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Post by: Anpu-adom
Sigvatr wrote:tetrisphreak wrote:I plan on making lithe snipers using warrior bodies/ legs with deathmark heads/ guns
Well yes, that's what I'd do too, but when I am not going to field them, I could just try to get rid of them in order to buy more (important) stuff. I'll get my codex tomorrow and will start buying more troops in December, until then, maybe people found a use for them or the FAQ suddenly makes them useful...
That's a great idea! Combine that with some homemade Cryptek from similar parts, and you have a great use for those leftover bits.
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Post by: Griever
I was looking forward to taking some C'tan Shards, but my god are they overcosted.
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Post by: MasterSlowPoke
Hox wrote:Anyone as curious as I am why the deathmarks are said to be also CC assassins yet the statline and models dont reflect it at all?
The "Hunters from Hyperspace" rule also applies in close combat - they can wound one particular unit on a 2+. Not that it really matters with 1A and rapid fire weapons, but they do have it.
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Post by: nosferatu1001
Just to point out - move through cover doesnt give you rerolls on terrain, thats Skilled Rider. So no, your gaunts / trygons / etc would NOT get rerolls on dangerous terrain checks.
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Post by: Hox
MasterSlowPoke wrote:Hox wrote:Anyone as curious as I am why the deathmarks are said to be also CC assassins yet the statline and models dont reflect it at all?
The "Hunters from Hyperspace" rule also applies in close combat - they can wound one particular unit on a 2+. Not that it really matters with 1A and rapid fire weapons, but they do have it.
Yeah thats exactly what I mean. They have that rule, its in the fluff but get one attack and no good CC weapon.
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Post by: DarknessEternal
Hox wrote:
Yeah thats exactly what I mean. They have that rule, its in the fluff but get one attack and no good CC weapon.
They don't need anything else to roll guardsman, Tau, guardians, or gaunts. Tactical marines have been doing it for decades.
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Post by: Just Dave
zacharia wrote:Just Dave wrote:I think the Necrons have always been like that really; powerful close range firepower and highly durable. That's them at their core anyways IMHO.
The problem is their firepower was reduced when 5th edition came round (gauss v vehicles) and it hasnt been brought back up, instead durability has been reduced
Ostrakon wrote:Just Dave wrote:I think the Necrons have always been like that really; powerful close range firepower and highly durable. That's them at their core anyways IMHO.
That's pretty much the exact opposite of 3E 'crons. You had to go out of your way for absurdly overcosted models to even stand a chance in melee, as the rest of your force would pretty much roll over due to sweeping advances. 18 points per boltgun was too much, because WBB didn't count for crap if you got swept. The other shooty things were nice (Destroyers and Immortals) but were ultimately vulnerable and overcosted. Anything CC-based bowled right over us and our guns costed more that MEQ equivalents.
Sorry, I'll clarify, when I said 'at their core' I meant this was the heart of the intention/game play for Necrons IMHO. They don't really have any ranged weapons (2 over 24" in the previous 'dex) and obviously they were not going to excel in close combat.
IMHO the INTENTIONS (and the core of their gameplay) from the designers was that they would be a close ranged, naturally tough, shooty army. WBB, MeQ statlines, Gauss weaponry all indicates this IMHO.
However, this didn't exactly 'age' well with different editions as glancing became unable to destroy a tank (therefore damaging Gauss compensating for their lack of anti-tank) and that they were priced for their individual rules, rather than context within the entire army, really hindered them as a whole. The need for troops was just another nail in the coffin IMHO.
Again, this is just my opinion and I wasn't trying to state that they genuinely are a "powerful close range firepower and highly durable" army, but this was how they were intended to be at least...
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Post by: Hox
DarknessEternal wrote:Hox wrote:
Yeah thats exactly what I mean. They have that rule, its in the fluff but get one attack and no good CC weapon.
They don't need anything else to roll guardsman, Tau, guardians, or gaunts. Tactical marines have been doing it for decades.
Yeah but they are the ultra assassins who live in another dimension waiting for the exact second to appear out of nowhere and destroy people. They are so sinister and good at killing that its considered wrong to use them against honorable opponents because you should honor them with a fair fight. So what does this mean? Mega assassin appears out of nowhere and goes DERP and punches you in the face. The epitome of badassedness.
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Post by: Just Dave
On another note, I think the loss of Warscythes old rules may be over-played.
Str6/7 against all enemies, still ignoring armour saves and with a higher strength to go with that additional D6 armour penetration means that they are now better against a greater number of enemies IMHO.
Obviously ignoring invulnerables was a big ability, but it was limited in its application and was never really that likely to stay, whereas the new warscythe could actually be better against a greater number of enemies and even better at popping tanks.
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Post by: ShadarLogoth
Just Dave wrote:On another note, I think the loss of Warscythes old rules may be over-played.
Str6/7 against all enemies, still ignoring armour saves and with a higher strength to go with that additional D6 armour penetration means that they are now better against a greater number of enemies IMHO.
Obviously ignoring invulnerables was a big ability, but it was limited in its application and was never really that likely to stay, whereas the new warscythe could actually be better against a greater number of enemies and even better at popping tanks.
Old Warscyth had the 2D6 Armor Penetration as well but I tend to agree with your point. The higher strength will have a more universal benefit then the old ignoring invulnerable saves.
More importantly they can be wielded by more models that will actually be given an opportunity to use them. The old Pariahs with no invulnerable save over there own tended to die before having a chance to swing at I2. Lords can hide in units now (and be given Invuln's) and of course Overlords can have 2+/3++ which should keep it around against most opponents long enough to swing. Lychguard is the one unit I would most likely bring shield instead on. 5T and 3+ Armor won't be sufficient against most strong CC opponents, however Lychguard in conjunction with Wraiths has potential.
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Post by: The Metal Tide
I think it is sad that we did not see a gravity displacement pack upgrade for lords and crypteks in royal courts. If their had been they could have attached to praetorians, making the unit even better.
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Post by: darkslife
I would say making praetorians usable.
As it stands, I will not be using them.
Elite hand to hand unit with 1 attack is sad.
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Post by: G. Whitenbeard
New Codex and Overlord model in hand!!!
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Post by: Just Dave
ShadarLogoth wrote:Just Dave wrote:On another note, I think the loss of Warscythes old rules may be over-played.
Str6/7 against all enemies, still ignoring armour saves and with a higher strength to go with that additional D6 armour penetration means that they are now better against a greater number of enemies IMHO.
Obviously ignoring invulnerables was a big ability, but it was limited in its application and was never really that likely to stay, whereas the new warscythe could actually be better against a greater number of enemies and even better at popping tanks.
Old Warscyth had the 2D6 Armor Penetration as well but I tend to agree with your point. The higher strength will have a more universal benefit then the old ignoring invulnerable saves.
True, but they didn't have the +2 strength (or base strength 5) to go with it, no?
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Post by: The Metal Tide
Just Dave wrote:ShadarLogoth wrote:Just Dave wrote:On another note, I think the loss of Warscythes old rules may be over-played.
Str6/7 against all enemies, still ignoring armour saves and with a higher strength to go with that additional D6 armour penetration means that they are now better against a greater number of enemies IMHO.
Obviously ignoring invulnerables was a big ability, but it was limited in its application and was never really that likely to stay, whereas the new warscythe could actually be better against a greater number of enemies and even better at popping tanks.
Old Warscyth had the 2D6 Armor Penetration as well but I tend to agree with your point. The higher strength will have a more universal benefit then the old ignoring invulnerable saves.
True, but they didn't have the +2 strength (or base strength 5) to go with it, no?
It didn't have +2 strength but the units that came with warscythes were strength 5 pariahs and strength 5 lords so they did have strength 5 to go with.
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Post by: Farquestor
G. Whitenbeard wrote:New Codex and Overlord model in hand!!!
'Gratz! I'm about an hour from my codex, ghost ark, Immortals, Lychguard, Imotech and Trazyn!
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Post by: lazarian
darkslife wrote:I would say making praetorians usable.
As it stands, I will not be using them.
Elite hand to hand unit with 1 attack is sad.
They have 2 attacks on the GW profile, I dont have the book till tomorrow so if they were going to be 1 A then my apologies. I will also admit though praetorians seem less useful being multipurpose than other more streamlined units although the entropic strike rules as presented in the book do mean they will mulch vehicles more effectively than most assault forces.
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