The Metal Tide wrote:It didn't have +2 strength but the units that came with warscythes were strength 5 pariahs and strength 5 lords so they did have strength 5 to go with.

So you used to have:
S5 +2D6 = 7-17

And now have
S7 +1D6 = 8-13

As the highest armor in the game is 14 and the lowest is 10, I'll trade the 4 off the top to gain one on the bottom, honestly...

Oh, good. The way the Royal Court rules read, a unit can have a courtier from each court you have. So if you really want a Resurrection Orb and Lightning Field in the same unit, you can! (as long as you have two Overlords)

Except you do still get 2D6 AP. You really do.

Confirmed in the German codex

So you now have S7 + 2D6 = 9 - 19. Better than my daemon prince!

Farquestor: it keeps its 2d6; it only lost the ability to ignore invuln saves.

lazarian wrote:

darkslife wrote:I would say making praetorians usable.

As it stands, I will not be using them.

Elite hand to hand unit with 1 attack is sad.

They have 2 attacks on the GW profile, I dont have the book till tomorrow so if they were going to be 1 A then my apologies. I will also admit though praetorians seem less useful being multipurpose than other more streamlined units although the entropic strike rules as presented in the book do mean they will mulch vehicles more effectively than most assault forces.

Praetorians are have one attach each. They are bad. Real bad.

Farquestor wrote:

The Metal Tide wrote:It didn't have +2 strength but the units that came with warscythes were strength 5 pariahs and strength 5 lords so they did have strength 5 to go with.

So you used to have:
S5 +2D6 = 7-17

And now have
S7 +1D6 = 8-13

As the highest armor in the game is 14 and the lowest is 10, I'll trade the 4 off the top to gain one on the bottom, honestly...

the 2d6 is confirmed via people with the English codex as well. They will tear through armor with pretty relative ease.

Yeah, I'll take 9-19 better...

Time to go screw up my local SM players... They like my their vehicles too much...

Edit: NVM was too late toe the party.

The warscythe sounds awesome. Too bad the Lychguard will be built, in most cases, with a shield instead.

The Metal Tide wrote:The warscythe sounds awesome. Too bad the Lychguard will be built, in most cases, with a shield instead.

This is what magnets are for.

C'tan can take their CC strikes as entropic. What is the point when they are strength 7 with 2D6 against armour penetration.

The Metal Tide wrote:C'tan can take their CC strikes as entropic. What is the point when they are strength 7 with 2D6 against armour penetration.

Hit a multi wound model/MC before the rest of the Necrons swarm over it?

The Metal Tide wrote:The warscythe sounds awesome. Too bad the Lychguard will be built, in most cases, with a shield instead.

I will be using overlords with warscythes on command barges.But yes, Lychguard will rip apart any vehicle. But I think pretorians will serve my army list better.

The Metal Tide wrote:C'tan can take their CC strikes as entropic. What is the point when they are strength 7 with 2D6 against armour penetration.

If the vehicle isn't dead by the end of the assault phase, it will certainly be dead in the shooting phase.

King Pariah wrote:

The Metal Tide wrote:The warscythe sounds awesome. Too bad the Lychguard will be built, in most cases, with a shield instead.

This is what magnets are for.

Ive never done it. Is there anything on dakka to show newbies to magnets how to magnet and pin.

If that even makes sense.

Hm, looking at the Ward codices, could it be that he doesn't like swords? Blood Angels got glaives encarmine, which are just sad, instead of relic blades. For PA Grey Knights swords are crappy standard equipment that does nothing special (compared to other Nemesis Force Weapons). For TA Grey Knights it's a bit better but I believe most people who have the points will invest into halberds. Now for the Necrons the one sword they have is just a power weapon with a fancy name. Their warscythes are the crown of melee weapons.

I guess I will try to convert a hyperphase blade with a power source to use it as a warscythe....

God Aeonstaves are dirty good.

Griever wrote:

lazarian wrote:

darkslife wrote:I would say making praetorians usable.

As it stands, I will not be using them.

Elite hand to hand unit with 1 attack is sad.

They have 2 attacks on the GW profile, I dont have the book till tomorrow so if they were going to be 1 A then my apologies. I will also admit though praetorians seem less useful being multipurpose than other more streamlined units although the entropic strike rules as presented in the book do mean they will mulch vehicles more effectively than most assault forces.

Praetorians are have one attach each. They are bad. Real bad.

We they can have a Pistol and a CCW, bringing them up to two attacks/model (with a rending and entropic weapon, basically and assault squad that can do what no other assault squad in the game can do.)

Or they can have 6" 5/2 Power weapons. Elite infantry decimaters. (.2875 wounds/shot against TEQ and .44 wounds/shot against MEQ).

I really think either weapon load out has potential. At 40pts/Model they are right in line with most elite jump infantry (DC comes to mind, 35pts/model if I'm not mistaken). Comparing them to a DC they have -1WS +1Str +1T -1A -2I no furious charge but no electronic football rules either, RP instead of FNP and come with an upgraded weapon for 5 pts more. I dunno that sounds about right to me.

Now they will certainly be a finesse unit, especially with the 6" weapon, but a AP 2 weapons are never ever "bad." Like Ever. A shooty weapon that always ignores armor saves=good IMHO, regardless off the limited range.

To each his own I guess, but I definitely see giving a unit of these a try. Cronies need a pre-emptive assault unit, and these are the only real mobile option in the Dex.

Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:Farquestor: it keeps its 2d6; it only lost the ability to ignore invuln saves.

The pariahs warscythe also had a built in 24" range S5 AP4 assault 2 range attack as well

ShadarLogoth wrote:
People said silly crap like that when the DE book was coming and then Dash proceeded to become one of the top generals in the world with that same book.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL.

Another question to be moved to YMDC tomorrow, But here seems to be the proper place for now.

Codex Page 59 wrote:If Trazyn is removed from play as a casualty, roll a D6...

So, clearly since this is done in response to getting killed, and takes place before the end of phase, as such, would preempt RP.

Two questions then arise:

Codex Page 59 wrote:On a score of 1, remove Trazyn from play as normal

The idea was posted by Yak, but I was just looking for peoples opinions now that the codex is available. This means that he can then take his Ever-Living RP roll at the end of Phase?

Additionally,

Codex Page 59 wrote:If the score is 2 or more, randomly choose another model from... ...Remove the nominated model from play as a casualty and return Trazyn to play in it's place...

Taken with the rules for reanimation protocols,

Codex Page 29 wrote:If a model with Reanimation Protocols is removed as a casualty...

It would follow that the model he replaces gets to make his own RP roll at the end of phase?

Thoughts?

It sounds legit but how is he going to reanimate? Becoming a living boil named susan?

It would follow that the model he replaces gets to make his own RP roll at the end of phase?

Thoughts?

No. It says he takes control of the body, morphing it to his shape. The existing model is now him. there is no damaged necron body to be reanimated

Edit: He can even live hidden inside another necrons (including overlords), taking control when he needs to and pushing the consciousness of the other necron to the side.

Hox wrote:

It would follow that the model he replaces gets to make his own RP roll at the end of phase?

Thoughts?

No. It says he takes control of the body, morphing it to his shape. The existing model is now him. there is no damaged necron body to be reanimated

While I agree from a fluff perspective, the fluff=/=rules in this game. Otherwise flyers would be immune to melee attacks, and the monolith would crush any units it lands on.

Hox wrote:

No. It says he takes control of the body, morphing it to his shape. The existing model is now him. there is no damaged necron body to be reanimated

Edit: He can even live hidden inside another necrons (including overlords), taking control when he needs to and pushing the consciousness of the other necron to the side.

Fluff vs. rules. According to the rule quotes I would say it's legal. That it doesn't make the slightest bit of sense.... Hey, they are still Necrons whose warscythes proudly slowed down Wyches and Ragnar Blackmane to the point where they couldn't evade attacks anymore.

discountbarber wrote:

ShadarLogoth wrote:
People said silly crap like that when the DE book was coming and then Dash proceeded to become one of the top generals in the world with that same book.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL.

I'm sorry is that statement inaccurate in someway?

I think the ideal solution would just be to let him make his own RP roll, and then if it fails, he then does the body swap shenanigans, and the guy he replaces is boned. However, how the rules are interpreted are never ideal.

It says remove the other model from play guys. Common sense please. I really dont know who you people are playing where that you need to be rule nazis. It makes sense to get rid of the other model so thats probably what you should do.

Hox wrote:It says remove the other model from play guys. Common sense please. I really dont know who you people are playing where that you need to be rule nazis. It makes sense to get rid of the other model so thats probably what you should do.

Well, it *appears* that RAW the model would get a RP roll, but I think RAI and common sense says he does not.

Lt. Coldfire wrote:

Hox wrote:It says remove the other model from play guys. Common sense please. I really dont know who you people are playing where that you need to be rule nazis. It makes sense to get rid of the other model so thats probably what you should do.

Well, it *appears* that RAW the model would get a RP roll, but I think RAI and common sense says he does not.

Fair, I just couldnt see any time where I would be willing to argue the reasoning behind rules with an opponent. Maybe thats just me and the people I play with.

lazarian wrote:

darkslife wrote:I would say making praetorians usable.

As it stands, I will not be using them.

Elite hand to hand unit with 1 attack is sad.

They have 2 attacks on the GW profile, I dont have the book till tomorrow so if they were going to be 1 A then my apologies. I will also admit though praetorians seem less useful being multipurpose than other more streamlined units although the entropic strike rules as presented in the book do mean they will mulch vehicles more effectively than most assault forces.

Your right, that's really weird! In the codex is 1A unfortunately

MotherTucker wrote:

lazarian wrote:

darkslife wrote:I would say making praetorians usable.

As it stands, I will not be using them.

Elite hand to hand unit with 1 attack is sad.

They have 2 attacks on the GW profile, I dont have the book till tomorrow so if they were going to be 1 A then my apologies. I will also admit though praetorians seem less useful being multipurpose than other more streamlined units although the entropic strike rules as presented in the book do mean they will mulch vehicles more effectively than most assault forces.

Your right, that's really weird! In the codex is 1A unfortunately

That's because of the default equipment being a single item ( rod of covenant).

The Metal Tide wrote:C'tan can take their CC strikes as entropic. What is the point when they are strength 7 with 2D6 against armour penetration.

Yakface pointed that out a while ago. C'Tan need to take 2 powers... entropic is the cheapest thing to pair with the power you really want.

The Metal Tide wrote:C'tan can take their CC strikes as entropic. What is the point when they are strength 7 with 2D6 against armour penetration.

for normal games not much of a point since he'll likely kill everything he needs to, but for say, an apoc game, against something with Structure points it'll be very useful.
Also, it's a nice insurance policy, incase you somehow fail to kill what ever you're aiming at, the rest of your warrior/praetorians/ whatevers can come in for an easy kill.

Sunoccard wrote:

The Metal Tide wrote:C'tan can take their CC strikes as entropic. What is the point when they are strength 7 with 2D6 against armour penetration.

for normal games not much of a point since he'll likely kill everything he needs to, but for say, an apoc game, against something with Structure points it'll be very useful.
Also, it's a nice insurance policy, incase you somehow fail to kill what ever you're aiming at, the rest of your warrior/praetorians/ whatevers can come in for an easy kill.

since I'm unlucky and my codex hasn't arrived today and there is no post on sunday, so it will arrive on monday. Will you be able to make both your CC attacks and the 4+ entropic strike, and if so in which order.

Sunoccard wrote:

The Metal Tide wrote:C'tan can take their CC strikes as entropic. What is the point when they are strength 7 with 2D6 against armour penetration.

for normal games not much of a point since he'll likely kill everything he needs to, but for say, an apoc game, against something with Structure points it'll be very useful.
Also, it's a nice insurance policy, incase you somehow fail to kill what ever you're aiming at, the rest of your warrior/praetorians/ whatevers can come in for an easy kill.

I can just see it now...

Reaver Titan: AV on all faces reduced to 1.

Space Marine Player:

Necron Warrior: *poke

Titan: APOCALYPTIC EXPLOSION!!!!

The Metal Tide wrote:

Sunoccard wrote:

The Metal Tide wrote:C'tan can take their CC strikes as entropic. What is the point when they are strength 7 with 2D6 against armour penetration.

for normal games not much of a point since he'll likely kill everything he needs to, but for say, an apoc game, against something with Structure points it'll be very useful.
Also, it's a nice insurance policy, incase you somehow fail to kill what ever you're aiming at, the rest of your warrior/praetorians/ whatevers can come in for an easy kill.

since I'm unlucky and my codex hasn't arrived today and there is no post on sunday, so it will arrive on monday. Will you be able to make both your CC attacks and the 4+ entropic strike, and if so in which order.

My read of it is this, you take your two CC attacks as normal. On a hit, the target looses a point of armor on a 4+. It's not an additional attack, but a bonus on your CC attacks.

Anpu-adom wrote:

The Metal Tide wrote:

Sunoccard wrote:

The Metal Tide wrote:C'tan can take their CC strikes as entropic. What is the point when they are strength 7 with 2D6 against armour penetration.

for normal games not much of a point since he'll likely kill everything he needs to, but for say, an apoc game, against something with Structure points it'll be very useful.
Also, it's a nice insurance policy, incase you somehow fail to kill what ever you're aiming at, the rest of your warrior/praetorians/ whatevers can come in for an easy kill.

since I'm unlucky and my codex hasn't arrived today and there is no post on sunday, so it will arrive on monday. Will you be able to make both your CC attacks and the 4+ entropic strike, and if so in which order.

My read of it is this, you take your two CC attacks as normal. On a hit, the target looses a point of armor on a 4+. It's not an additional attack, but a bonus on your CC attacks.

This is how i've understood in as well. It will happen AFTER hits, but before penetration rolls.

Oh yeah , What its a landraider and strength 3 can't hurt it? Well lets see here, looks like you need to take better care of it its only armour 8.

aboytervigon wrote:Oh yeah , What its a landraider and strength 3 can't hurt it? Well lets see here, looks like you need to take better care of it its only armour 8.

My first game will be against a dual LR list , I have 10 swarms waiting to go OMNOMNOM all over it's armour.

Page 8 "Dolmen Gates"

Necrons these days travel via webway. No more second alternate dimension, which granted our beloved necrons the benefits of phase shifter, warscythe, long distance teleportation...

My dear Lord... why...

aboytervigon wrote:Oh yeah , What its a landraider and strength 3 can't hurt it? Well lets see here, looks like you need to take better care of it its only armour 8.

I want to tag-team with Orks using my scarabs
Grot Blasters maybe used for once.

... or Imperial guard infantry

Shitlot of Diddly awesome.

Fan67 wrote:Page 8 "Dolmen Gates"

Necrons these days travel via webway. No more second alternate dimension, which granted our beloved necrons the benefits of phase shifter, warscythe, long distance teleportation...

My dear Lord... why...

Personally I just ignore this piece of fluff and am sticking with the FTL travel via inertia less drive and phasing in and out of this dimension like Iori Delta Tove. In fact, I think I'm going to go and white out this part of the fluff in my codex and write in INTERGALATIC TRAVEL VIA INERTIA-LESS DRIVE AND DIMENSION HOPPING. I mean do we really have to be traveling like everyone else?

Fan67 wrote:Necrons these days travel via webway. No more second alternate dimension, which granted our beloved necrons the benefits of phase shifter, warscythe, long distance teleportation...

Yeah it certainly isn't as cool, I found the old fluff very good if you have a hyper-active imagination because that way you can fill in all the empty space with cool stuff

Going to run a necron/tau force when tau is updated. Sooo much shooty goodness. Fluff could make it work too.

The Metal Tide wrote:

King Pariah wrote:

The Metal Tide wrote:The warscythe sounds awesome. Too bad the Lychguard will be built, in most cases, with a shield instead.

This is what magnets are for.

Ive never done it. Is there anything on dakka to show newbies to magnets how to magnet and pin.

If that even makes sense.

I explain pinning here (step 3) and provide an overview of magnets here (step 4).

They're generally different techniques. A pin gives a joint more surface area and something to help resist shearing stress. A magnet makes things rotate and easier to dismantle or swap out pieces. Pinning is the easier technique to do and there's almost always something around in a house you can use as a pin (a short piece of stiff wire, a paperclip, etc.) but magnets may require special ordering.

Balance wrote:

The Metal Tide wrote:

King Pariah wrote:

The Metal Tide wrote:The warscythe sounds awesome. Too bad the Lychguard will be built, in most cases, with a shield instead.

This is what magnets are for.

Ive never done it. Is there anything on dakka to show newbies to magnets how to magnet and pin.

If that even makes sense.

I explain pinning here (step 3) and provide an overview of magnets here (step 4).

They're generally different techniques. A pin gives a joint more surface area and something to help resist shearing stress. A magnet makes things rotate and easier to dismantle or swap out pieces. Pinning is the easier technique to do and there's almost always something around in a house you can use as a pin (a short piece of stiff wire, a paperclip, etc.) but magnets may require special ordering.

Thanks.

discountbarber:

So I skimmed your blog, apparently you've won a game are two and certainly think of yourself as God's gift to Warhammer.

What's funny is you dug up a post from several pages ago, which can only mean one of your lackies got word to you that someone was possibly giving props to another general, God forbid, and you had to run over here and defend your honour.

That's cute.

Repost:

Fluff: Is there any indication that our "shot-dead" Necrons who failed their RP save are "dematerializing" and the parts are teleported to a secret facility? Same with shot down vehicles...

It was one of the great fluff parts I liked: After the mindless horde of robots has been destroyed, there is nothing left of them.

I don't think we're going to make it to 200 :(

Fan67 wrote:Page 8 "Dolmen Gates"

Necrons these days travel via webway. No more second alternate dimension, which granted our beloved necrons the benefits of phase shifter, warscythe, long distance teleportation...

My dear Lord... why...

WAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!

The webway is getting really crowded, isn't it? Craftworld Eldar, Dark Eldar and now Necrons. Why still have classic battlefields? Just glue a bunch of shoeboxes together and spray the inside with weird, misty, psychedelic colours. Bam you have a battlefield where webway users can randomly meet.

Just as a general wondering - does anyone know if the Tomb Stalker is in the codex or not?

No its not

Well first impression is that Scarab Swarms are going to be the best unit in the codex.

There is a powerful synergy between the new scarabs and the humble yet plentiful gauss rifle. A simple glancing hit from a gauss rifle can now read as follows:

1-3= Shaken not stirred
4= Stunned Vehicle doomed to take 5 auto hits per scarab swarm in the next assault phase
5= Weapon Destroyed
6= Immobilized vehicle doomed to take 5 auto hits per scarab swarm in every assault phase.

Gauss weapons now have a 1/3 chance of dooming a vehicle to death by scarabs.

To illustrate my point let's look at what 6 scarab swarms can do to a land raider.

Land Raider moving 6" or less
6 scarabs=30 attacks on the charge=15 hits=7.5 entropy hits rounded down to 7=AV 7/7/7 land raider

Now the obvious solution to counter the threat of scarab swarms eating a land raider down to 7/7/7 in 1 turn is to keep moving 7+"

Land raider moving more than 6"
6 scarabs=30 attacks on the charge=5 hits=2.5 entropy hits rounded down to 2=AV12/12/12 land raider. That's bad news, but it's not the end of the world as AV12 is still respectable. That is unless the necron player has gauss weapons in his army...

9 Necron warriors and 1 ghost ark broadside moves into rapid fire range=14 gauss rifle shots
14 gauss rifle shots=28 shots=18.6 hits=3.1 glances=1 stunned or shaken=scarabs now auto hit the land raider that moved 12"

Stunned or immobilized land raider
6 scarabs=30 attacks=30 hits=15 entropy hits=AV<1=100% destroyed land raider

IMO between the new entropy attacks on scarab swarms, the ease of glancing a vehicle with gauss, and the multitude of dirty tricks necrons have to make vehicles take dangerous/difficult terrain tests scarabs can be called the best unit in the new necron codex.

The question being, how many times will you be able to pull this off after your opponent has played one game against necrons and seen how dangerous scarabs are. If they had half a brain they would target scarabs if they are a tank heavy list or rely on the tanks that they have.

EDIT: spelling

schadenfreude wrote:Well first impression is that Scarab Swarms are going to be the best unit in the codex.

There is a powerful synergy between the new scarabs and the humble yet plentiful gauss rifle. A simple glancing hit from a gauss rifle can now read as follows:

1-3= Shaken not stirred
4= Stunned Vehicle doomed to take 5 auto hits per scarab swarm in the next assault phase
5= Weapon Destroyed
6= Immobilized vehicle doomed to take 5 auto hits per scarab swarm in every assault phase.

Gauss weapons now have a 1/3 chance of dooming a vehicle to death by scarabs.

To illustrate my point let's look at what 6 scarab swarms can do to a land raider.

Land Raider moving 6" or less
6 scarabs=30 attacks on the charge=15 hits=7.5 entropy hits rounded down to 7=AV 7/7/7 land raider

Now the obvious solution to counter the threat of scarab swarms eating a land raider down to 7/7/7 in 1 turn is to keep moving 7+"

Land raider moving more than 6"
6 scarabs=30 attacks on the charge=5 hits=2.5 entropy hits rounded down to 2=AV12/12/12 land raider. That's bad news, but it's not the end of the world as AV12 is still respectable. That is unless the necron player has gauss weapons in his army...

9 Necron warriors and 1 ghost arc broadside moves into rapid fire range=14 gauss rifle shots
14 gauss rifle shots=28 shots=18.6 hits=3.1 glances=1 stunned or shaken=scarabs now auto hit the land raider that moved 12"

Stunned or immobilized land raider
6 scarabs=30 attacks=30 hits=15 entropy hits=AV<1=100% destroyed land raider

IMO between the new entropy attacks on scarab swarms, the ease of glancing a vehicle with gauss, and the multitude of dirty tricks necrons have to make vehicles take dangerous/difficult terrain tests scarabs can be called the best unit in the new necron codex.

New to the game, so I have a question. Being Swarms means that Scarabs are vulnerable to blasts. How does that affect them when the vehicle they attack gets destroyed?

The Metal Tide wrote:The question being, how many times will you be able to pull this off after your opponent has played one game against necrons and seen how dangerous scarabs are. If they had half a brain they would target scarabs if they are a tank heavy list or rely on the tanks that they have.

EDIT: spelling

I agree scarabs should be a high target priority, but multi wound swarms with the stealth universal special rule are difficult to kill.

@anpu-adom
well if a scarab unit makes a tanks armour down to one because of entropic on any facing, the vehicle counts as wrecked

Anpu-adom wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:Well first impression is that Scarab Swarms are going to be the best unit in the codex.

There is a powerful synergy between the new scarabs and the humble yet plentiful gauss rifle. A simple glancing hit from a gauss rifle can now read as follows:

1-3= Shaken not stirred
4= Stunned Vehicle doomed to take 5 auto hits per scarab swarm in the next assault phase
5= Weapon Destroyed
6= Immobilized vehicle doomed to take 5 auto hits per scarab swarm in every assault phase.

Gauss weapons now have a 1/3 chance of dooming a vehicle to death by scarabs.

To illustrate my point let's look at what 6 scarab swarms can do to a land raider.

Land Raider moving 6" or less
6 scarabs=30 attacks on the charge=15 hits=7.5 entropy hits rounded down to 7=AV 7/7/7 land raider

Now the obvious solution to counter the threat of scarab swarms eating a land raider down to 7/7/7 in 1 turn is to keep moving 7+"

Land raider moving more than 6"
6 scarabs=30 attacks on the charge=5 hits=2.5 entropy hits rounded down to 2=AV12/12/12 land raider. That's bad news, but it's not the end of the world as AV12 is still respectable. That is unless the necron player has gauss weapons in his army...

9 Necron warriors and 1 ghost arc broadside moves into rapid fire range=14 gauss rifle shots
14 gauss rifle shots=28 shots=18.6 hits=3.1 glances=1 stunned or shaken=scarabs now auto hit the land raider that moved 12"

Stunned or immobilized land raider
6 scarabs=30 attacks=30 hits=15 entropy hits=AV<1=100% destroyed land raider

IMO between the new entropy attacks on scarab swarms, the ease of glancing a vehicle with gauss, and the multitude of dirty tricks necrons have to make vehicles take dangerous/difficult terrain tests scarabs can be called the best unit in the new necron codex.

New to the game, so I have a question. Being Swarms means that Scarabs are vulnerable to blasts. How does that affect them when the vehicle they attack gets destroyed?

It doesn't have any effect on the swarms. Blast and flame templates only.

Scarabs are T3 I believe, so S6 shooting will tear them to shreds. No RP for them and they are beasts now so no turbo boost if I remember correctly.

Might test them out to see how they perform, but not expecting anything spectacular.

The Metal Tide wrote:@anpu-adom
well if a scarab unit makes a tanks armour down to one because of entropic on any facing, the vehicle counts as wrecked

Wrecked means that the units inside (if any) are disembarked, and no flaming death happens in the area? Ok.

What if it gets destroyed by gauss shooting (after the armor has been taken down below 10, for example)? Then there is the possibility of explosions, right?

Sorry for being a Noob.

schadenfreude wrote:

The Metal Tide wrote:The question being, how many times will you be able to pull this off after your opponent has played one game against necrons and seen how dangerous scarabs are. If they had half a brain they would target scarabs if they are a tank heavy list or rely on the tanks that they have.

EDIT: spelling

I agree scarabs should be a high target priority, but multi wound swarms with the stealth universal special rule are difficult to kill.

Yeah. If they had the scout universal special rule it would make this unit very deadly. If they had it they could outflank and that would mean that to be safe a tank would have to be 19-24 inches away from the edge of the board or risk being assaulted with no chance of retaliation until the next turn. Does anyone know if scarabs have scout?

My question is, how is the C'tan entropic stike upgrade worded. Does it only effect their close combat attacks, as I imagine it would, or can it effect their ranged attacks as well. If that were the case it would make the high shot low strength ranged upgrade well worth it. IIRC 8 s4 shots that were entropic would knock about 3 armor off. That would make any other shooting much more effective, plus if your shooting at rhinos AV8 is relatively easy to pen even with s4 (well the same as missiles at av12 anyways).

Anpu-adom wrote:

The Metal Tide wrote:@anpu-adom
well if a scarab unit makes a tanks armour down to one because of entropic on any facing, the vehicle counts as wrecked

Wrecked means that the units inside (if any) are disembarked, and no flaming death happens in the area? Ok.

What if it gets destroyed by gauss shooting (after the armor has been taken down below 10, for example)? Then there is the possibility of explosions, right?

Sorry for being a Noob.

Oh I see what you mean. Something else destroyed the tank and the scarabs were next to it and caught in the explosion. well since the explosion is NOT from a blast template the vulnerable to blast rule does not apply.

The Metal Tide wrote:

Anpu-adom wrote:

The Metal Tide wrote:@anpu-adom
well if a scarab unit makes a tanks armour down to one because of entropic on any facing, the vehicle counts as wrecked

Wrecked means that the units inside (if any) are disembarked, and no flaming death happens in the area? Ok.

What if it gets destroyed by gauss shooting (after the armor has been taken down below 10, for example)? Then there is the possibility of explosions, right?

Sorry for being a Noob.

Oh I see what you mean. Something else destroyed the tank and the scarabs were next to it and caught in the explosion. well since the explosion is NOT from a blast template the vulnerable to blast rule does not apply.

RAW the scarabs would be safe. thing is if the scarabs ate the armor, AND you were able to shoot it, it means you opponent didn't move his tank, or destroy the scarabs in his turn.... probably not going to happen too often.

Has anyone considered making a CC-heavy C'tan? Imagine a C'tan with:

Time's Arrow (initiative check on 1 model before assault takes place, failure results in model being removed)
and
Gaze of Death (large blast over C'tan after combat, all models touched suffer str3 hit with no armor saves allowed and restores 1 wound to the C'tan if a model is killed, up to 1 wound, doesn't affect combat resolution)

Taken with the fact that it's WS5 S7 T7 W4 I4 A4 and has a 4+ invuln save, this thing could really hurt some SS/TH termies or a lot of the other elite close combat units out there. Plus it has the option to kill characters who fail initiative checks and even if it dies, explodes D6 inches out at str 4 ap1, further wrecking whatever defeated it.

This guy is 275 points and easily rivals Abaddon the Despoiler in damage output, and he's tougher.

liam0404 wrote:Just as a general wondering - does anyone know if the Tomb Stalker is in the codex or not?

They do get Triarch Stalkers though

LunaHound wrote:

liam0404 wrote:Just as a general wondering - does anyone know if the Tomb Stalker is in the codex or not?

They do get Triarch Stalkers though

And it makes a solid C'tan counts-as.

Mustakha the Undying wrote:Has anyone considered making a CC-heavy C'tan? Imagine a C'tan with:

Time's Arrow (initiative check on 1 model before assault takes place, failure results in model being removed)
and
Gaze of Death (large blast over C'tan after combat, all models touched suffer str3 hit with no armor saves allowed and restores 1 wound to the C'tan if a model is killed, up to 1 wound, doesn't affect combat resolution)

Taken with the fact that it's WS5 S7 T7 W4 I4 A4 and has a 4+ invuln save, this thing could really hurt some SS/TH termies or a lot of the other elite close combat units out there. Plus it has the option to kill characters who fail initiative checks and even if it dies, explodes D6 inches out at str 4 ap1, further wrecking whatever defeated it.

This guy is 275 points and easily rivals Abaddon the Despoiler in damage output, and he's tougher.

Old gaze was Str 4 with no armor saves. Loved that ability. Don't know if I like having to roll 5+ to wound meq's with it now.

tiekwando wrote:My question is, how is the C'tan entropic stike upgrade worded. Does it only effect their close combat attacks, as I imagine it would, or can it effect their ranged attacks as well. If that were the case it would make the high shot low strength ranged upgrade well worth it. IIRC 8 s4 shots that were entropic would knock about 3 armor off. That would make any other shooting much more effective, plus if your shooting at rhinos AV8 is relatively easy to pen even with s4 (well the same as missiles at av12 anyways).

Close combat attacks only.

The Metal Tide wrote:The question being, how many times will you be able to pull this off after your opponent has played one game against necrons and seen how dangerous scarabs are. If they had half a brain they would target scarabs if they are a tank heavy list or rely on the tanks that they have.

EDIT: spelling

Less shooting at your other good units then. Also, this is what night-fight is for, mitigate the shooting at the little guys.

Kevin949 wrote:

Mustakha the Undying wrote:Has anyone considered making a CC-heavy C'tan? Imagine a C'tan with:

Time's Arrow (initiative check on 1 model before assault takes place, failure results in model being removed)
and
Gaze of Death (large blast over C'tan after combat, all models touched suffer str3 hit with no armor saves allowed and restores 1 wound to the C'tan if a model is killed, up to 1 wound, doesn't affect combat resolution)

Taken with the fact that it's WS5 S7 T7 W4 I4 A4 and has a 4+ invuln save, this thing could really hurt some SS/TH termies or a lot of the other elite close combat units out there. Plus it has the option to kill characters who fail initiative checks and even if it dies, explodes D6 inches out at str 4 ap1, further wrecking whatever defeated it.

This guy is 275 points and easily rivals Abaddon the Despoiler in damage output, and he's tougher.

Old gaze was Str 4 with no armor saves. Loved that ability. Don't know if I like having to roll 5+ to wound meq's with it now.

Even a Str3 is pretty damn good for an auto-hit that ignores armour when it's going to restore a wound IMHO.

Kevin949 wrote:

Mustakha the Undying wrote:Has anyone considered making a CC-heavy C'tan? Imagine a C'tan with:

Time's Arrow (initiative check on 1 model before assault takes place, failure results in model being removed)
and
Gaze of Death (large blast over C'tan after combat, all models touched suffer str3 hit with no armor saves allowed and restores 1 wound to the C'tan if a model is killed, up to 1 wound, doesn't affect combat resolution)

Taken with the fact that it's WS5 S7 T7 W4 I4 A4 and has a 4+ invuln save, this thing could really hurt some SS/TH termies or a lot of the other elite close combat units out there. Plus it has the option to kill characters who fail initiative checks and even if it dies, explodes D6 inches out at str 4 ap1, further wrecking whatever defeated it.

This guy is 275 points and easily rivals Abaddon the Despoiler in damage output, and he's tougher.

Old gaze was Str 4 with no armor saves. Loved that ability. Don't know if I like having to roll 5+ to wound meq's with it now.

Old gaze also only worked on a 4+ against the models that weren't fully covered, which was basically all of them. It stated that specifically in the rules of the ability, therefore the updated blast markers rule in 5th ed didn't override it. This new form will ultimately net more hits and probably wounds, costs less to obtain (85 points less in fact) and restores a wound.

schadenfreude wrote:

The Metal Tide wrote:The question being, how many times will you be able to pull this off after your opponent has played one game against necrons and seen how dangerous scarabs are. If they had half a brain they would target scarabs if they are a tank heavy list or rely on the tanks that they have.

EDIT: spelling

I agree scarabs should be a high target priority, but multi wound swarms with the stealth universal special rule are difficult to kill.

People laughed at me for seeing the value of the Leman Russ Eradicator. But with S6 AP4 Large Blast that ignores Terrain, I think One or 3 may be added to my IG in the future

Mind the look and feel of the Crons is very temptings too.

Kevin949 wrote:

Mustakha the Undying wrote:Has anyone considered making a CC-heavy C'tan? Imagine a C'tan with:

Time's Arrow (initiative check on 1 model before assault takes place, failure results in model being removed)
and
Gaze of Death (large blast over C'tan after combat, all models touched suffer str3 hit with no armor saves allowed and restores 1 wound to the C'tan if a model is killed, up to 1 wound, doesn't affect combat resolution)

Taken with the fact that it's WS5 S7 T7 W4 I4 A4 and has a 4+ invuln save, this thing could really hurt some SS/TH termies or a lot of the other elite close combat units out there. Plus it has the option to kill characters who fail initiative checks and even if it dies, explodes D6 inches out at str 4 ap1, further wrecking whatever defeated it.

This guy is 275 points and easily rivals Abaddon the Despoiler in damage output, and he's tougher.

Old gaze was Str 4 with no armor saves. Loved that ability. Don't know if I like having to roll 5+ to wound meq's with it now.

Yes, but now you get wounds back, making the C'tan even harder to kill.

Mustakha the Undying wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:

Mustakha the Undying wrote:Has anyone considered making a CC-heavy C'tan? Imagine a C'tan with:

Time's Arrow (initiative check on 1 model before assault takes place, failure results in model being removed)
and
Gaze of Death (large blast over C'tan after combat, all models touched suffer str3 hit with no armor saves allowed and restores 1 wound to the C'tan if a model is killed, up to 1 wound, doesn't affect combat resolution)

Taken with the fact that it's WS5 S7 T7 W4 I4 A4 and has a 4+ invuln save, this thing could really hurt some SS/TH termies or a lot of the other elite close combat units out there. Plus it has the option to kill characters who fail initiative checks and even if it dies, explodes D6 inches out at str 4 ap1, further wrecking whatever defeated it.

This guy is 275 points and easily rivals Abaddon the Despoiler in damage output, and he's tougher.

Old gaze was Str 4 with no armor saves. Loved that ability. Don't know if I like having to roll 5+ to wound meq's with it now.

Old gaze also only worked on a 4+ against the models that weren't fully covered, which was basically all of them. It stated that specifically in the rules of the ability, therefore the updated blast markers rule in 5th ed didn't override it. This new form will ultimately net more hits and probably wounds, costs less to obtain (85 points less in fact) and restores a wound.

What are you talking about "basically all of them"? I don't know who you fought against but if you had a squad in B2B with you you easily had 5+ guys getting autohit and typically 2+ only getting hit on the 4+ roll. It won't net more wounds because it's exactly the same ability minus the 4+ hit for partials but one less strength meaning more failures to wound.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Just Dave wrote:
Even a Str3 is pretty damn good for an auto-hit that ignores armour when it's going to restore a wound IMHO.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yes, but now you get wounds back, making the C'tan even harder to kill.

Oh I agree, but now that those str4 marines can wound your c'tan that's going to be 10-20 potential wounds that you would never have suffered previously.



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alphaomega wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:

The Metal Tide wrote:The question being, how many times will you be able to pull this off after your opponent has played one game against necrons and seen how dangerous scarabs are. If they had half a brain they would target scarabs if they are a tank heavy list or rely on the tanks that they have.

EDIT: spelling

I agree scarabs should be a high target priority, but multi wound swarms with the stealth universal special rule are difficult to kill.

People laughed at me for seeing the value of the Leman Russ Eradicator. But with S6 AP4 Large Blast that ignores Terrain, I think One or 3 may be added to my IG in the future

Mind the look and feel of the Crons is very temptings too.

I don't think it ignores terrain, it just means you don't benefit from intervening terrain between the firer and the target, if it doesn't scatter. But if you're in "area terrain" you still benefit from that regardless of the blast location. I thought only flamer templates straight ignored covered saves.

Hox wrote:

It would follow that the model he replaces gets to make his own RP roll at the end of phase?

Thoughts?

No. It says he takes control of the body, morphing it to his shape. The existing model is now him. there is no damaged necron body to be reanimated

Edit: He can even live hidden inside another necrons (including overlords), taking control when he needs to and pushing the consciousness of the other necron to the side.

Wow, that sounds really familASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL!!

Just so you know scarabs have the following rules

Vunerable to blast
Scouts
Stealth

thats for being a swarm.

aboytervigon wrote:Just so you know scarabs have the following rules

Vunerable to blast
Scouts
Stealth

thats for being a swarm.

swarm doesn't give scout. It gives stealth and Vuln. to blast/template.

aboytervigon wrote:Just so you know scarabs have the following rules

Vunerable to blast
Scouts
Stealth

thats for being a swarm.

Swarms don't have Scounts just by being swarms, at least not according to the 5th edition rulebook.

The scarabs also don't have the scouts rule.

EDIT: Sunoccard beat me to it.

I died a little inside when i read that monoliths have a crew

mcmuffin wrote:I died a little inside when i read that monoliths have a crew

What? In the fluff, or rules wise?

Stunned vehicles are not hit automatically in assault, so it won't be hit automatically from not moving for an entire other turn.

Mustakha the Undying wrote:

aboytervigon wrote:Just so you know scarabs have the following rules

Vunerable to blast
Scouts
Stealth

thats for being a swarm.

Swarms don't have Scounts just by being swarms, at least not according to the 5th edition rulebook.

The scarabs also don't have the scouts rule.

EDIT: Sunoccard beat me to it.

I died a little inside when i read that scarabs didn't have scout. I would love to have scarabs outflank but oh well

Do scarabs get fleet at least?

Mjoellnir wrote:The webway is getting really crowded, isn't it? Craftworld Eldar, Dark Eldar and now Necrons. Why still have classic battlefields? Just glue a bunch of shoeboxes together and spray the inside with weird, misty, psychedelic colours. Bam you have a battlefield where webway users can randomly meet.

That would actually be a neat idea, especially if you had some rules that represented the webway occasioanlly twisting and rearranging, like every turn you roll to identify two boxes which are swapped.

Balance wrote:

Mjoellnir wrote:The webway is getting really crowded, isn't it? Craftworld Eldar, Dark Eldar and now Necrons. Why still have classic battlefields? Just glue a bunch of shoeboxes together and spray the inside with weird, misty, psychedelic colours. Bam you have a battlefield where webway users can randomly meet.

That would actually be a neat idea, especially if you had some rules that represented the webway occasioanlly twisting and rearranging, like every turn you roll to identify two boxes which are swapped.

Yeah, that sounds like one hell of a scenario for a kill team game or campaign mission.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Do scarabs get fleet at least?

They are beasts, so yes.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Do scarabs get fleet at least?

Because they are now beasts they come with fleet

EDIT: wigwam got there first

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Do scarabs get fleet at least?

Doesn't being a beast grant fleet by default?

*edit*
answered above me.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Balance wrote:

Mjoellnir wrote:The webway is getting really crowded, isn't it? Craftworld Eldar, Dark Eldar and now Necrons. Why still have classic battlefields? Just glue a bunch of shoeboxes together and spray the inside with weird, misty, psychedelic colours. Bam you have a battlefield where webway users can randomly meet.

That would actually be a neat idea, especially if you had some rules that represented the webway occasioanlly twisting and rearranging, like every turn you roll to identify two boxes which are swapped.

Yeah, that sounds like one hell of a scenario for a kill team game or campaign mission.

They did this in Eye of Terror, Thousand Sons trying to find the Black Library. So you could add that as another army of people in the Webway

whigwam wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Do scarabs get fleet at least?

They are beasts, so yes.

Sweet. That gives them a potential 24" kill zone. This I like.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

whigwam wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Do scarabs get fleet at least?

They are beasts, so yes.

Sweet. That gives them a potential 24" kill zone. This I like.

This I like, with a 12" charge range I can drop large templates without worrying about them scattering onto the little buggers, then have then clean house after, i think some people are forgetting how effective they will be against a regular MEQ squad.

So 10 scarabs charge 10 man tac squad with pf sarge

9 MEQ attacks, cause 2.6667 wounds, kill 1 swarm.

45 attacks back (9*5) cause 2.5 wounds.

Sarge strikes back with 2 attacks, 1.1111 KILLS, so 3.333 wounds.

So on average its 6 wounds to 2.5 wounds. Meaning that there are another 2.33 wounds for fearless. So total is 8.333 wounds on the scarabs for 2.5 wounds on the marines.

Means that both scarabs and marines lost 2-3 models. Not that bad actually.
Obviously goes better if the Sargent has something other than S6 so his wounds are not doubled. For instance with a PW he only does 1.333 wounds for a total of 4 wounds. So only 5 wounds total after fearless.

tiekwando wrote:So 10 scarabs charge 10 man tac squad with pf sarge

9 MEQ attacks, cause 2.6667 wounds, kill 1 swarm.

45 attacks back (9*5) cause 2.5 wounds.

Sarge strikes back with 2 attacks, 1.1111 KILLS, so 3.333 wounds.

So on average its 6 wounds to 2.5 wounds. Meaning that there are another 2.33 wounds for fearless. So total is 8.333 wounds on the scarabs for 2.5 wounds on the marines.

Means that both scarabs and marines lost 2-3 models. Not that bad actually.
Obviously goes better if the Sargent has something other than S6 so his wounds are not doubled. For instance with a PW he only does 1.333 wounds for a total of 4 wounds. So only 5 wounds total after fearless.

Yeah, this is about how I saw it, however, I doubt I'd have not fired into the group first, but either way the math goes in the scarabs favor. ( sounds like and objective contesting move to me )

Isn't each base about the same price as a marine though?

Scarabs as beasts have a 19-24" charge range with regular move, fleet, and charge.

Scarabs cost as much as a CSM, or 1 point less than a tac marine/grey hunter. They have a 3+ when in cover which makes them as vulnerable as a grey hunter, tac marine, or CSM. Math hammer of S6, S7, and S8 hits against scarabs will show on a point for point basis they are no more vulnerable multi laser, auto cannon, or psyfleman fire than MEQ targets. It takes 3 wounds to drop 1 model that is a point cheaper than a grey hunter or tac marine, that isn't exactly cutting a unit down through instant kills.

On one hand they lost turbo boost, on the other hand they can hang back with tomb spiders and/or use tomb spiders for cover until they jump out and eat something. Tomb spiders can also poop out a lot of new scarabs while giving the swarms cover saves. Necrons have enough firepower in their army that they can move into max range and wait for an opponent to come to them. Beasts actually make them a better counter attack unit than getbikes because their threat radius has increased from 18" to 18"+D6"

The low price of scarabs for what they do, synergy with other units, and low cost of tomb spiders make scarabs a fantastic unit now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Math hammer, how hard is it to kill 90 points of scarabs with multilasers.

Need 6 unsaved wounds to kill 90 points of scarbs in cover.

6 unsaved wounds=18 wounds before cover=21 hits=42 shots=14 chimera multilasers=770 points of chimeras to drop 90 points of scarabs.

schadenfreude wrote:Scarabs as beasts have a 19-24" charge range with regular move, fleet, and charge.

Scarabs cost as much as a CSM, or 1 point less than a tac marine/grey hunter. They have a 3+ when in cover which makes them as vulnerable as a grey hunter, tac marine, or CSM. Math hammer of S6, S7, and S8 hits against scarabs will show on a point for point basis they are no more vulnerable multi laser, auto cannon, or psyfleman fire than MEQ targets. It takes 3 wounds to drop 1 model that is a point cheaper than a grey hunter or tac marine, that isn't exactly cutting a unit down through instant kills.

On one hand they lost turbo boost, on the other hand they can hang back with tomb spiders and/or use tomb spiders for cover until they jump out and eat something. Tomb spiders can also poop out a lot of new scarabs while giving the swarms cover saves. Necrons have enough firepower in their army that they can move into max range and wait for an opponent to come to them. Beasts actually make them a better counter attack unit than getbikes because their threat radius has increased from 18" to 18"+D6"

The low price of scarabs for what they do, synergy with other units, and low cost of tomb spiders make scarabs a fantastic unit now.

good write-up, and you made a point I hadn't thought about either, and thats the universal 24" shooting range for necrons, it makes them mesh incredibly well with the firepower that the warriors and immortals with lay down.

Another thing about scarabs is that if you play them right, and manage to wreck a tank through entropic strike then you should end up with a wrecked tank acting as a wall infront of you and getting in the way of enemy shooting. the next turn you make a 19" move-run-assault (at least) to the next tank and there we go again.

The Metal Tide wrote:Another thing about scarabs is that if you play them right, and manage to wreck a tank through entropic strike then you should end up with a wrecked tank acting as a wall infront of you and getting in the way of enemy shooting. the next turn you make a 19" move-run-assault (at least) to the next tank and there we go again.

It'll be a little less fun when one of those tanks happens to explode all over those BTB Scarabs ... Or does "Vulnerable to Blasts/Templates" not apply to exploding vehicles..?

vulnerable to blasts only effects those weapons with blast or template based weapons. (Flamers, frag missles, etc). The exploding vehicle is not a blast. Still hurts a bit though

My fast attack slots are getting very cramped.... a squad of scarabs plus 2 squads of destroyers..... no room for wriaths or more scarabs.

7 and a half hours till official release (UK time) - can we get to 200 pages.......

UltraPrime wrote:7 and a half hours till official release (UK time) - can we get to 200 pages.......

Wow. I never think about that ae. Here in New Zealand it is the middle of the day and the Necrons have been released.

Tomorrow morning is SO far away... seriously I'm 28 years old and this is like Christmas to me when I was 12... lol

Cryage wrote:Tomorrow morning is SO far away... seriously I'm 28 years old and this is like Christmas to me when I was 12... lol

Well I'm actually in the same boat given the fact that my codex doesnt arrive till monday

tiekwando wrote:vulnerable to blasts only effects those weapons with blast or template based weapons. (Flamers, frag missles, etc). The exploding vehicle is not a blast. Still hurts a bit though

Whew! Good to know, thanks.

Swara wrote:

ShadarLogoth wrote:
Question, I've seen this hinted at a few times...but what, if anything nullifies RP?

Only completely destroying a unit or making them run nullifies RP.

Or making it impossible to stand back up. For instance, if you consolidate on top of a unit or a lord, he's not getting back up.

On another note:

My Guided Scatter-Laser Warwalker Squadrons are going to love all these Scarab Swarms. Who would've thought that the best way to deal with Scarabs is ruins? Stairs confound them.

The Metal Tide wrote:

Cryage wrote:Tomorrow morning is SO far away... seriously I'm 28 years old and this is like Christmas to me when I was 12... lol

Well I'm actually in the same boat given the fact that my codex doesnt arrive till monday

to be noest i have no clue when mine will get here..... GW got around to sending me the the tracking num at about 2:30 pm friday, and fedex for some reason doesn't seem to have processed it yet. if this were any other package I wouldn't care as much. :/

I'm not so bright, maybe someone can hold my hand on this one...
Why are baseline crypteks so expensive? Are you paying through the nose for the ap 3 shots or is there something I'm missing about these upgradable necron warriors?

I get the commissar or warlock comparisons but they seem like a really clunky way to shore up an army's weaknesses or give a squad utility.

Lucre wrote:

I get the commissar or warlock comparisons but they seem like a really clunky way to shore up an army's weaknesses or give a squad utility.

Honestly, to me, the whole codex seems a little clunky. It is very busy. There's a lot going on.

Dudes in the army lists forum saying they have their codex in US. Whats up?
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/408517.page

Byte wrote:Dudes in the army lists forum saying they have their codex in US. Whats up?
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/408517.page

a lot of people have already gotten thiers by various ways. so it's highly possible.

Byte wrote:Dudes in the army lists forum saying they have their codex in US. Whats up?
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/408517.page

I'm reading mine right now.

Sunoccard wrote:

The Metal Tide wrote:

Cryage wrote:Tomorrow morning is SO far away... seriously I'm 28 years old and this is like Christmas to me when I was 12... lol

Well I'm actually in the same boat given the fact that my codex doesnt arrive till monday

to be noest i have no clue when mine will get here..... GW got around to sending me the the tracking num at about 2:30 pm friday, and fedex for some reason doesn't seem to have processed it yet. if this were any other package I wouldn't care as much. :/

I went to my local shop today and they were unpacking the GW box.. grabbed a codex and a command barge.. muhahaha. And I live in Wisconsin...

Hm... Praetorians only have 1 A. However, for free they can switch to voidblades/particle casters.

That's 3 attacks on assault, with Rending/Entropic Strike, plus the short range shots from the pistols (particle casters). (1 A, +1 from assaulting, +1 from two weapons rule)

And Jump Infantry... Still though... eh. Leaning towards making mine Lychguards.

Also. Yay Codex.

What are the Particle Casters stats anyway?

puma713 wrote:

Byte wrote:Dudes in the army lists forum saying they have their codex in US. Whats up?
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/408517.page

I'm reading mine right now.

Damn...

Ruan wrote:Hm... Praetorians only have 1 A. However, for free they can switch to voidblades/particle casters.

That's 3 attacks on assault, with Rending/Entropic Strike, plus the short range shots from the pistols (particle casters). (1 A, +1 from assaulting, +1 from two weapons rule)

And Jump Infantry... Still though... eh. Leaning towards making mine Lychguards.

Also. Yay Codex.

Lychguard with shields seems to be a good choice, the 4++ will do wonders for keeping them alive in CC.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

asimo77 wrote:What are the Particle Casters stats anyway?

STR6 AP5 pistol

puma713 wrote:

Lucre wrote:

I get the commissar or warlock comparisons but they seem like a really clunky way to shore up an army's weaknesses or give a squad utility.

Honestly, to me, the whole codex seems a little clunky. It is very busy. There's a lot going on.

Do you know how lame it feels considering auto taking 2 lords just to get more of the (sorta) good stuff?
The flying barges do seem like a fun way to get around the cc oriented vs abominable initiative problem...

Heard that the wording for Entropic Strike means that any hits take away armour, not any wounds. That true? Because it would really change up the mathammer, if only because that tac squad is now naked.

The particle casters profile is 12" Str6 Ap5 pistol.

succesful hits do indeed cause the tests.

It reads "for each hit a vehicle suffers from a weapon or model with this special rule, roll a d6. For each result of a 4+, it immediately loses 1 point of armor value from all facings.

Anvildude wrote:Heard that the wording for Entropic Strike means that any hits take away armour, not any wounds. That true? Because it would really change up the mathammer, if only because that tac squad is now naked.

I believe, but do not quote me on this, that it is "hits" against vehicles, and "unsaved wounds" against non-vehicles.

Xca|iber wrote:

Anvildude wrote:Heard that the wording for Entropic Strike means that any hits take away armour, not any wounds. That true? Because it would really change up the mathammer, if only because that tac squad is now naked.

I believe, but do not quote me on this, that it is "hits" against vehicles, and "unsaved wounds" against non-vehicles.

You are correct.

Clunky is exactly my feeling on the whole codex.

I am underwhelmed in the extreme.

2 overlords, relentless with rez orbs, 2x 10 necron immortals with blasters costs more points and is not as good as 3rd ed codex.

I am considering have 2 courts of 3 crypteks of destruction (str 8, AP2, ass 1) 36" range for 125 each squad, also including a solar orb in each.

As to where this army stands in tourny play, its better than it used to be, but not by heaps. Lower end of middle pack I'd say.

Are they keeping these for 2nd wave release?
Anyone how long before Dark Eldars got theirs? and battalion?

Triarch Stalkers
Tomb Blade
Doom/Night Scyth
Illuminor Szeras

LunaHound wrote:Are they keeping these for 2nd wave release?
Anyone how long before Dark Eldars got theirs? and battalion?

Triarch Stalkers
Tomb Blade
Doom/Night Scyth
Illuminor Szeras

I bet they don't make an Illuminor Szeras. I have no info to back this up, just my personal opinion. If you take a Cryptek and a Triarch Stalker kit, then you'll have Illuminor.

Sorry if it's already been answered, but what is the point cost of the Nightscythe?

Now that I have my codex in-hand, some things I've noticed:

-At 45 pts per, Sword/Shield Lychguard are pretty nice, especially if accompanied by Obyron and a Res Orb Lord for a big nasty deathstar unit.

- 267 points for a 9 warrior/1 lance cryptek ark seems excessive but could prove to be great if the rapidfire rules turn out as rumored in 6E. 3 units of that screened by scarabs could prove to be difficult to deal with.

- A destroyer lord accompanying a full wraith unit will prove to be a nasty force to be reckoned with, especially in armies that abuse night-fight shenanigans. For only about 300 points you get a lot of melee force and maneuverability.

- Why you would ever go for a non-gauss cannon on the CCB is beyond me.

- A CCB Overlord with a scythe seems to be the no-brainer HQ choice for this army. His abilities can't be ignored, and he will not likely go down easily. He might not make his points back directly (although it's certainly possible!) but he will draw an absurd amount of fire.

- Overall this army seems incredibly balanced, and is absolutely unique.

- Tesla weapons plus stalkers might be fun, considering how cheap Immortals are.

Amanax wrote:Sorry if it's already been answered, but what is the point cost of the Nightscythe?

10 pts. more than a Tac Squad

Amanax wrote:Sorry if it's already been answered, but what is the point cost of the Nightscythe?

Only 100! Pleasant surprise, but as mentioned if it blows up its contents get placed back in reserve. It's going to draw a LOT of fire, but AV11 with a 4+ save gives it a shot at surviving the turn. At the very least, your opponents won't be shooting at anything else.

Ostrakon wrote:

Amanax wrote:Sorry if it's already been answered, but what is the point cost of the Nightscythe?

Only 100! Pleasant surprise, but as mentioned if it blows up its contents get placed back in reserve. It's going to draw a LOT of fire, but AV11 with a 4+ save gives it a shot at surviving the turn. At the very least, your opponents won't be shooting at anything else.

My thoughts exactly. And I even though I don't enjoy the fact that they go into reserve, taking Orikan as I was planning might work to help with that drawback if he did end up with his once per game reserve re-roll

Amanax wrote:Sorry if it's already been answered, but what is the point cost of the Nightscythe?

Not sure if we are allowed to post directly but its 1/3 rd of Spartaaaaaaaaa

Ostrakon wrote:
*snip*

I think armies that can put a lot of models on the table (Orks, in particular) are going to give Necrons trouble. I also think IG is sitting pretty just the way they were. I think Necrons will probably shine against MSU armies, but I think that they were going to be slower than some people realize. If you want to use all that weaponry, you'll have to move slowly to do so. But, they have some nasty things that move quickly. This can be a double-edged sword: it can present your opponent with a lot to deal with while the rest of your forces arrive (ideal) or it can split your forces and allow your enemy to deal with what he wants at his leisure (worst case). Of course, there will be a median found, but I'm interested to see how steep the learning curve is.

That's where Death Rays come in. The Doomscythe (or whatever it's called) and it's Death Ray can basically wipe entire hordes out.

Anvildude wrote:That's where Death Rays come in. The Doomscythe (or whatever it's called) and it's Death Ray can basically wipe entire hordes out.

The Death Ray works just like Jaws of the World Wolf. It hits models that touch the line. Here is the wording:

"Every unit (friendly or enemy) underneath the line suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit underneath the line."

If your line moves through a mob of Ork Boyz, but only goes over 6 of them, only 6 take hits.

Not only that, but you have to be within 12" of the mob to use the Death Ray. So, it's probably the last thing the Doomscythe will do.

Edit: Technically, you wouldn't have to be within 12" of the unit you want to hit, but the line starts 12" from the Doomscythe and then ends 3D6" away, so if you want an accurate line (or if you want to get the most effect), you'll probably want to be as close to 12" away as you can.

You know, I think you're the first person to read it that way? At least that I've heard. Everyone I've spoken to read it as

"Every unit ... underneath the line suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit underneath the line"

In other words, if even a single model in a unit of 10 is under the line, the unit takes 10 hits.

Well a big help for the nightscythe is that you can walk any non-vehicle out of the monoliths portal anywhere on the table or in reserves. It seems like how it reads it doesn't say they need to have passed reserve roles to walk out the portal. At least that is how the paragraph reads to me.

So nothing in the book says that a solar pulse stops the lightning storm from imotekh.

puma713 wrote:

Anvildude wrote:That's where Death Rays come in. The Doomscythe (or whatever it's called) and it's Death Ray can basically wipe entire hordes out.

The Death Ray works just like Jaws of the World Wolf. It hits models that touch the line. Here is the wording:

"Every unit (friendly or enemy) underneath the line suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit underneath the line."

If your line moves through a mob of Ork Boyz, but only goes over 6 of them, only 6 take hits.

Not only that, but you have to be within 12" of the mob to use the Death Ray. So, it's probably the last thing the Doomscythe will do.

I agree that that's most likely how its supposed to work. I think the problem that people are having is with the "in the unit" wording.

If they had just said "Every unit (friendly or enemy) underneath the line suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models underneath the line" then it would have been fine. The way its worded is awkward... does it mean hits the number of models under the line or that if the line passes over models in the unit, it hits equal to the number of models in the unit.

I think its the former, as the latter would be insanely good. Whole mobs of boyz, guard blob squads, etc could be virtually wiped out in a single shot otherwise.

Anvildude wrote:You know, I think you're the first person to read it that way? At least that I've heard. Everyone I've spoken to read it as

"Every unit ... underneath the line suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit underneath the line"

In other words, if even a single model in a unit of 10 is under the line, the unit takes 10 hits.

That would mean that they repeated the "underneath the line" at the beginning of the clause and the at the end of the clause for no reason. That is redundant. If that were correct, it would read like:

"Anything underneath the line suffers hits underneath the line."

That is improper grammar.

Forgive me if someone has already pointed this out...to excited to read pages 180-185, and I'm not done reading the entire codex yet (you understand I assume).

Potential good news. I'm reading the wording of the Solar Pulse and it looks like Imotek + solar pulse might actually work.

Solar pulse (pg. 84) specifically says "if the Night Fighting rules are in effect, they cease to apply until the end of the turn"

The solar pulse doesn't end night fighting. It just lets you ignore them for your turn when used in this fashion.

On the other side of this, Imotek's Lord of the Storm rule (pg. 55) specifically uses the term "game turn" to describe how he interacts with the end and continuation of Night Fighting rules in play.

So, the Game Turn begins.
Necron turn begins and you use the solar pulse to dis-apply NFing until the end of the turn.
Necron movement phase.
Necron shooting phase begins.
You blow stuff up gud.
Necron assault phase.
Necron turn ends.
Solar pulse effect ends and Night Fighting once again applies as normal.
Other player's turn.
End of Game Turn.
Imotekh's player can now choose to attempt to extend night fighting or not.

If you reversed the player's turns, it won't make a difference as the BGB clearly states that one game turn is made up of two or more player turns that occur over the course of a single game turn.

Subsequently, Lord of the Storm says that lightning strikes occur "if the Night Fighting rule is in play".
A Solar Pulse simply makes them not "apply" to your turn. It in no way states that the solar pulse removes the night fighting rules from play.

So...in-play. Just not applicable for the turn.

Kevin949 wrote:So nothing in the book says that a solar pulse stops the lightning storm from imotekh.

?

It only lightning's when it is Night Fighting and Solar Pulse stops the Night Fighting.

Kevin949 wrote:So nothing in the book says that a solar pulse stops the lightning storm from imotekh.

Under Imotekh's entry, its says the lightning storm occurs while night fighting rules are in place. If you light up your turn, the night fighting rules (temporarily) are gone.

You can't lightning strike if you solar pulse, but you can keep the night fighting rules going after solar pulsing (there was a rumour a while back saying that once you used a pulse, Imotekh's night-fighting was gone for good).

Tyr wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:So nothing in the book says that a solar pulse stops the lightning storm from imotekh.

Under Imotekh's entry, its says the lightning storm occurs while night fighting rules are in place. If you light up your turn, the night fighting rules (temporarily) are gone.

You can't lightning strike if you solar pulse, but you can keep the night fighting rules going after solar pulsing (there was a rumour a while back saying that once you used a pulse, Imotekh's night-fighting was gone for good).

I disagree. This is tricky because Imotekh's rules say that you may "keep the Night Fighting rules in play". Well, if you've stopped the Night Fighting rules with a Solar Pulse, the Night Fighting rules are no longer "in play" and so may not be "kept in play".

Edit: Just saw Arandmoor's post. I still disagree, however. The Solar Pulse says "Night Fighting rules cease to apply." That means you're not using the Night Fighting "rules". . .you're not applying them. If they FAQ it, I have a feeling they'll go with the less advantageous point-of-view.

Mustakha the Undying wrote:

tiekwando wrote:My question is, how is the C'tan entropic stike upgrade worded. Does it only effect their close combat attacks, as I imagine it would, or can it effect their ranged attacks as well. If that were the case it would make the high shot low strength ranged upgrade well worth it. IIRC 8 s4 shots that were entropic would knock about 3 armor off. That would make any other shooting much more effective, plus if your shooting at rhinos AV8 is relatively easy to pen even with s4 (well the same as missiles at av12 anyways).

Close combat attacks only.

Actually that's not true at all.

The wording for Entropic strike actually specifies that it affects any hit from a MODEL with this ability.

So I DO think that a C'Tan who takes Entropic Strike would also gain that ability with whatever way he is able to hit enemy models, including ranged attacks!


Good thought, tiekwando!

The wraith are a good counter for that with the whips. Kind of nice to strike first with I2. And the lords and cryptics are pretty good if ya kit them out right.

puma713 wrote:

Tyr wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:So nothing in the book says that a solar pulse stops the lightning storm from imotekh.

Under Imotekh's entry, its says the lightning storm occurs while night fighting rules are in place. If you light up your turn, the night fighting rules (temporarily) are gone.

You can't lightning strike if you solar pulse, but you can keep the night fighting rules going after solar pulsing (there was a rumour a while back saying that once you used a pulse, Imotekh's night-fighting was gone for good).

I disagree. This is tricky because Imotekh's rules say that you may "keep the Night Fighting rules in play". Well, if you've stopped the Night Fighting rules with a Solar Pulse, the Night Fighting rules are no longer "in play" and so may not be "kept in play".

Edit: Just saw Arandmoor's post. Good points.

Except the Solar Pulse doesn't remove Night Fighting from play. It just says they cease to apply for a turn.

So, not applying, but still in play.

Now, if you induced night fighting by using a solar pulse that wouldn't activate his lightning strikes even if you used the pulse in your turn and suffered through all the sighting difficulties because while it would cause them to apply, Night Fighting would not be "in play".

IMO, it's a nit-pick so all is not well, but we've got a very strong case to have our cake and eat it too.

Will require FAQing IMO.

puma713 wrote:

Tyr wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:So nothing in the book says that a solar pulse stops the lightning storm from imotekh.

Under Imotekh's entry, its says the lightning storm occurs while night fighting rules are in place. If you light up your turn, the night fighting rules (temporarily) are gone.

You can't lightning strike if you solar pulse, but you can keep the night fighting rules going after solar pulsing (there was a rumour a while back saying that once you used a pulse, Imotekh's night-fighting was gone for good).

I disagree. This is tricky because Imotekh's rules say that you may "keep the Night Fighting rules in play". Well, if you've stopped the Night Fighting rules with a Solar Pulse, the Night Fighting rules are no longer "in play" and so may not be "kept in play".

Edit: Just saw Arandmoor's post. Good points.

I do believe the solar flare rules say nothing about ending nightfighting, so much as they suspend the application of its rules for a player turn. It does specifically say until the end of the turn.

In any case, you may be absolutely right that horde armies are going to give us trouble. I suspect IG will roll right over us. On the other hand, I'm liking our odds against Ork hordes and tyranids, only because there is precious little they can do to stop our vehicles. AV13 means none of their shooting can reasonably scratch it, and we appear to be mobile enough to dance around CC or at least mire them in scarab land.

yakface wrote:

Mustakha the Undying wrote:

tiekwando wrote:My question is, how is the C'tan entropic stike upgrade worded. Does it only effect their close combat attacks, as I imagine it would, or can it effect their ranged attacks as well. If that were the case it would make the high shot low strength ranged upgrade well worth it. IIRC 8 s4 shots that were entropic would knock about 3 armor off. That would make any other shooting much more effective, plus if your shooting at rhinos AV8 is relatively easy to pen even with s4 (well the same as missiles at av12 anyways).

Close combat attacks only.

Actually that's not true at all.

The wording for Entropic strike actually specifies that it affects any hit from a MODEL with this ability.

So I DO think that a C'Tan who takes Entropic Strike would also gain that ability with whatever way he is able to hit enemy models, including ranged attacks!


Good thought, tiekwando!

Codex very clearly says close combat attacks only.

Would've been great otherwise though!

It says the c'tan shard specifically gains entropic strike only to it's close combat attacks

yakface wrote:

Mustakha the Undying wrote:

tiekwando wrote:My question is, how is the C'tan entropic stike upgrade worded. Does it only effect their close combat attacks, as I imagine it would, or can it effect their ranged attacks as well. If that were the case it would make the high shot low strength ranged upgrade well worth it. IIRC 8 s4 shots that were entropic would knock about 3 armor off. That would make any other shooting much more effective, plus if your shooting at rhinos AV8 is relatively easy to pen even with s4 (well the same as missiles at av12 anyways).

Close combat attacks only.

Actually that's not true at all.

The wording for Entropic strike actually specifies that it affects any hit from a MODEL with this ability.

So I DO think that a C'Tan who takes Entropic Strike would also gain that ability with whatever way he is able to hit enemy models, including ranged attacks!


Good thought, tiekwando!

How does a model "hit" from range? A weapon that a model carries can "hit" from range, but how does a model itself "hit"?

The reason I bring this up is because the Entropic Strike rule actually points out that any wounds/hits from a weapon or model with this rule. . .

This seems to distinguish the two - there are weapons that cause wounds/hits and there are models that cause wounds/hits. When you're shot with a missile launcher from a Long Fang, did you take a wound from the model, or from the weapon he was carrying?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

hollowmirror wrote:It says the c'tan shard specifically gains entropic strike only to it's close combat attacks

And that ^^.

I think the FAQ could go either way.

...and regardless, even without the chance of lightning it's still a really powerful ability if you take enough Annihilation barges to make up for the loss of possible S8 hits.

It will matter completely on your army comp and how long you can keep night fighting in play. With good die rolls, it will be going strong into turn 6, and I doubt that you'll need better than average rolls to target the barges' big template past the end of turn two or so.

Tyr wrote:
Codex very clearly says close combat attacks only.

Would've been great otherwise though!

Ah yes, I was looking in the rules for Entropic Strike and didn't double check the C'Tan power wording.

My bad!

puma713 wrote:

yakface wrote:

Mustakha the Undying wrote:

tiekwando wrote:My question is, how is the C'tan entropic stike upgrade worded. Does it only effect their close combat attacks, as I imagine it would, or can it effect their ranged attacks as well. If that were the case it would make the high shot low strength ranged upgrade well worth it. IIRC 8 s4 shots that were entropic would knock about 3 armor off. That would make any other shooting much more effective, plus if your shooting at rhinos AV8 is relatively easy to pen even with s4 (well the same as missiles at av12 anyways).

Close combat attacks only.

Actually that's not true at all.

The wording for Entropic strike actually specifies that it affects any hit from a MODEL with this ability.

So I DO think that a C'Tan who takes Entropic Strike would also gain that ability with whatever way he is able to hit enemy models, including ranged attacks!


Good thought, tiekwando!

How does a model "hit" from range? A weapon that a model carries can "hit" from range, but how does a model itself "hit"?

The reason I bring this up is because the Entropic Strike rule actually points out that any wounds/hits from a weapon or model with this rule. . .

This seems to distinguish the two - there are weapons that cause wounds/hits and there are models that cause wounds/hits. When you're shot with a missile launcher from a Long Fang, did you take a wound from the model, or from the weapon he was carrying?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

hollowmirror wrote:It says the c'tan shard specifically gains entropic strike only to it's close combat attacks

And that ^^.

actually he meant that the c'tans entropic touch upgrade that gives him the special rule only grants it to the c'tans close combat attacks specifically.

puma713 wrote:

LunaHound wrote:Are they keeping these for 2nd wave release?
Anyone how long before Dark Eldars got theirs? and battalion?

Triarch Stalkers
Tomb Blade
Doom/Night Scyth
Illuminor Szeras

I bet they don't make an Illuminor Szeras. I have no info to back this up, just my personal opinion. If you take a Cryptek and a Triarch Stalker kit, then you'll have Illuminor.

Agreed.

I think second wave will be the Stalker, the Doom/Night Scythe, a Wraith/Spyder kit, and tomb blades in plastic.

In Finecast we'll see:
Two specific Cryptek Harbingers
Obyron
Zandrek
Anakyr

Ostrakon wrote:

puma713 wrote:

Tyr wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:So nothing in the book says that a solar pulse stops the lightning storm from imotekh.

Under Imotekh's entry, its says the lightning storm occurs while night fighting rules are in place. If you light up your turn, the night fighting rules (temporarily) are gone.

You can't lightning strike if you solar pulse, but you can keep the night fighting rules going after solar pulsing (there was a rumour a while back saying that once you used a pulse, Imotekh's night-fighting was gone for good).

I disagree. This is tricky because Imotekh's rules say that you may "keep the Night Fighting rules in play". Well, if you've stopped the Night Fighting rules with a Solar Pulse, the Night Fighting rules are no longer "in play" and so may not be "kept in play".

Edit: Just saw Arandmoor's post. Good points.

I do believe the solar flare rules say nothing about ending nightfighting, so much as they suspend the application of its rules for a player turn. It does specifically say until the end of the turn.

In any case, you may be absolutely right that horde armies are going to give us trouble. I suspect IG will roll right over us. On the other hand, I'm liking our odds against Ork hordes and tyranids, only because there is precious little they can do to stop our vehicles. AV13 means none of their shooting can reasonably scratch it, and we appear to be mobile enough to dance around CC or at least mire them in scarab land.

That was mostly my point. If we can use the lightning in the same turn as a solar pulse it's just icing on the cake. From the wording of the Solar Pulse, Night Fighting specifically comes back into effect at the end of the player's turn, and can therefore be extended by Imotekh's Lord of the Storm rule at the end of the Game Turn, even if the necron player went last in play order.

...also, I think horde armies are going to give us trouble. However, 6th editiion could very well solve a lot of those difficulties if they introduce some safety to deep striking vehicles and/or skimmers. Deep striking the monolith is something we're kinda shoe-horned into. I would not be surprised to find them making the old deep-strike protection rules baseline for all deep striking vehicles in 6th (via some sort of tank-shock or something...having a tank land on you? Death is a definite possibility. However...if you blew it up...oh god the glory!).

Arandmoor wrote:I think the FAQ could go either way.

...and regardless, even without the chance of lightning it's still a really powerful ability if you take enough Annihilation barges to make up for the loss of possible S8 hits.

It will matter completely on your army comp and how long you can keep night fighting in play. With good die rolls, it will be going strong into turn 6, and I doubt that you'll need better than average rolls to target the barges' big template past the end of turn two or so.

I personally don't think there is any contention at all (although it probably will be argued until it is FAQ'd, so I suppose it will need to be).

But whomever said that the use of the Solar Pulse would permanently cancel out night fighting was clearly incorrect...a Solar Pulse only makes Night Fighting cease to apply the turn it is used.

Equally, I don't really see how anyone could argue that the lightning bolts can hit enemy units in the same turn a solar pulse has been used...as the Night Fighting rules are temporarily suspended for the turn the Solar Pulse is used.

Oh yeah...

C'tan shard with Time's Arrow + a squad of Wraiths with Whip Coils...

Just think on that combo for a minute...

...heeeeeer Dantedantedante...
...HEEEEEER Draigodraigodraigo!
...gooooooood Dread Knight/Wraithlord/Dreadnought/Defiler.
Whowasagoodboy? Whowasagoodboy?

Tyr wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:So nothing in the book says that a solar pulse stops the lightning storm from imotekh.

Under Imotekh's entry, its says the lightning storm occurs while night fighting rules are in place. If you light up your turn, the night fighting rules (temporarily) are gone.

You can't lightning strike if you solar pulse, but you can keep the night fighting rules going after solar pulsing (there was a rumour a while back saying that once you used a pulse, Imotekh's night-fighting was gone for good).

no I get that, people were saying if you used a pulse then he couldn't bring night fight back, which is not true. Night fight only permanently stops if he fails his roll.

yakface wrote:

Arandmoor wrote:I think the FAQ could go either way.

...and regardless, even without the chance of lightning it's still a really powerful ability if you take enough Annihilation barges to make up for the loss of possible S8 hits.

It will matter completely on your army comp and how long you can keep night fighting in play. With good die rolls, it will be going strong into turn 6, and I doubt that you'll need better than average rolls to target the barges' big template past the end of turn two or so.

I personally don't think there is any contention at all (although it probably will be argued until it is FAQ'd, so I suppose it will need to be).

But whomever said that the use of the Solar Pulse would permanently cancel out night fighting was clearly incorrect...a Solar Pulse only makes Night Fighting cease to apply the turn it is used.

Equally, I don't really see how anyone could argue that the lightning bolts can hit enemy units in the same turn a solar pulse has been used...as the Night Fighting rules are temporarily suspended for the turn the Solar Pulse is used.

I think the codex uses "apply" and "in effect" interchangably. To say something "applies", means that the rules are "in effect". To say that the no longer apply means they are no longer in effect.

So here's where the contention comes through, I think:

Turn 1, Night Fighting rules "apply" - verbatim from codex.
Turn 1 - my shooting - I am subject to Night Fighting rules.
Turn 1.5 - Necrons use Solar Pule and Night Fighting rules "cease to apply" until the end of the turn.

Turn ends.

Turn 2 - Imotekh may "keep Night Fighting rules in effect". But there are no Night Fighting rules, they have "ceased to apply".

I'm not as confident as you that there is no room for debate.

This was covered.

But no, you can't use the pulse and lightning in the same round.

Ostrakon wrote:
and we appear to be mobile enough to dance around CC or at least mire them in scarab land.

Scarabs, yes. Mobile? I'm not so sure. Night Scythes and CCB are fairly mobile - they're fast and can scoot around the board.

Annihilation Barges, Ghost Arks, etc. are no faster than Rhinos.

Other than that, you have a few fast units, but none are really built to handle 30 Slugga Boyz. And if the Orks close down half the board (like they are prone to do), then that doesn't leave far to run.

I think people were expecting the Necron codex to change the meta, but I don't really see it. Course, the Codex has been out a day (if even that?) and I've yet to play a game against them. I could be eating my words before too long, but that is my first-glance opinion of the codex.

Oh and if no one mentioned it, gauntlet of fire is reroll to hit and to wound.

Arandmoor wrote:

Ostrakon wrote:

puma713 wrote:

Tyr wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:So nothing in the book says that a solar pulse stops the lightning storm from imotekh.

Under Imotekh's entry, its says the lightning storm occurs while night fighting rules are in place. If you light up your turn, the night fighting rules (temporarily) are gone.

You can't lightning strike if you solar pulse, but you can keep the night fighting rules going after solar pulsing (there was a rumour a while back saying that once you used a pulse, Imotekh's night-fighting was gone for good).

I disagree. This is tricky because Imotekh's rules say that you may "keep the Night Fighting rules in play". Well, if you've stopped the Night Fighting rules with a Solar Pulse, the Night Fighting rules are no longer "in play" and so may not be "kept in play".

Edit: Just saw Arandmoor's post. Good points.

I do believe the solar flare rules say nothing about ending nightfighting, so much as they suspend the application of its rules for a player turn. It does specifically say until the end of the turn.

In any case, you may be absolutely right that horde armies are going to give us trouble. I suspect IG will roll right over us. On the other hand, I'm liking our odds against Ork hordes and tyranids, only because there is precious little they can do to stop our vehicles. AV13 means none of their shooting can reasonably scratch it, and we appear to be mobile enough to dance around CC or at least mire them in scarab land.

That was mostly my point. If we can use the lightning in the same turn as a solar pulse it's just icing on the cake. From the wording of the Solar Pulse, Night Fighting specifically comes back into effect at the end of the player's turn, and can therefore be extended by Imotekh's Lord of the Storm rule at the end of the Game Turn, even if the necron player went last in play order.

...also, I think horde armies are going to give us trouble. However, 6th editiion could very well solve a lot of those difficulties if they introduce some safety to deep striking vehicles and/or skimmers. Deep striking the monolith is something we're kinda shoe-horned into. I would not be surprised to find them making the old deep-strike protection rules baseline for all deep striking vehicles in 6th (via some sort of tank-shock or something...having a tank land on you? Death is a definite possibility. However...if you blew it up...oh god the glory!).

We'll also see if we get 2 max range shots with rapid-fire weapons in 6E, which would make it very difficult for hordes to approach us. The shots from a single ark will wipe out half an ork unit a turn, and even once they close the gap there isn't a huge amount they can do about it. besides hope the Nob can pop the ark. Lootas can only glance most of our vehicles thankfully. And 'nids have it even worse, since a unit of gants can't even scratch the ark, and 'stealers are going to take extremely heavy casualties on the way in (if not obliterated entirely due to packing Immortal fire!)

I think IG will be by far our worst matchup, but a turn or two of night-fighting might be enough to get in close and pray we can cause some pain.

Time to drum up some Imotekh night fight speculation to get us to 200!

For those who were claiming that a Solar Pulse stops Imotekh from continuing Night Fighting in further turns, well, it's just not true. Looking at the rules for both Solar Pulse and Lord of the Storm right now... Lord of the Storm states after rolling a D6 at the start of the turn, if the result is greater than the current turn then Night Fight continues, but if the roll is less than or equal to the current turn then Night Fight RULES stop and cannot be used the rest of the battle. Solar Pulse is basically a toggle switch for Night Fight rules as we all know, which either applies Night Fight if it's not in effect and vice versa if it is until the end of the turn.

My interpretation of this is that Solar Pulse doesn't stop Imotekh from rolling on future turns. However, I am worried that if the Lord of the Storm rule ever applied in the game to begin with that the Solar Pulse could never be used to induce Night Fight once Lord of the Storm stops inducing Night Fight. Anybody else looking at it this way? I was a bit taken aback when I read that.

peebzguy wrote:Time to drum up some Imotekh night fight speculation to get us to 200!

For those who were claiming that a Solar Pulse stops Imotekh from continuing Night Fighting in further turns, well, it's just not true. Looking at the rules for both Solar Pulse and Lord of the Storm right now... Lord of the Storm states after rolling a D6 at the start of the turn, if the result is greater than the current turn then Night Fight continues

The actual wording is. . ."the Night Fighting rules remain in play." If the Night Fighting rules have ceased to apply (no longer are in play), then what is there to "keep in play"?

The only weak point in this is if "apply" = "in play". I think it does, because under Imotekh's rules, it states that during the first turn, the Night Fighting rules "apply". Then it goes on to say that they may be kept "in play". I'm not really trying to convince anyone though - I just think there is room for discussion. If you're taking a 225 pt. Lord for Night Fighting and a 45 pts. Cryptek for Solar Pulse, that's fine by me.

Turn 1, Night Fighting rules "apply" - verbatim from codex.
Turn 1 - my shooting - I am subject to Night Fighting rules.
Turn 1.5 - Necrons use Solar Pule and Night Fighting rules "cease to apply" until the end of the turn.

Turn ends.

Turn 2 - Imotekh may "keep Night Fighting rules in effect". But there are no Night Fighting rules, they have "ceased to apply".

Ah, but there you go:

Turn 1.5 - Necrons use Solar Pulse and Night Fighting Rules "cease to apply" until the end of the turn.
Turn Ends, Night Fighting comes back into play as per the Solar Pulse ruling.

Turn 2 - Imotekh keeps Night Fighting in effect since it continued to apply at the end of Turn 1.

Oh...vs. hordes...

Take a squad of 20 warriors.
Throw in a Pheron.

20 Warriors + relentless = the stuff ork nightmares are made of

puma713 wrote:

Ostrakon wrote:
and we appear to be mobile enough to dance around CC or at least mire them in scarab land.

Scarabs, yes. Mobile? I'm not so sure. Night Scythes and CCB are fairly mobile - they're fast and can scoot around the board.

Annihilation Barges, Ghost Arks, etc. are no faster than Rhinos.

Other than that, you have a few fast units, but none are really built to handle 30 Slugga Boyz. And if the Orks close down half the board (like they are prone to do), then that doesn't leave far to run.

I think people were expecting the Necron codex to change the meta, but I don't really see it. Course, the Codex has been out a day (if even that?) and I've yet to play a game against them. I could be eating my words before too long, but that is my first-glance opinion of the codex.

Well, I don't think the entire army is mobile enough to dance around CC, but I think a lot of our guys are perfectly happy parking, especially against 30 slugga boys. There is literally one model in that mob who can do anything about an ark, and he's hopefully going to spend two turns of shooting to make those attacks. Even if he pops it (odds are overwhelmingly that he will not), his unit is utterly decimated and will not be assaulting the warriors within that turn. What's going to be the deciding factor here is whether or not we get 2 shots at long range in 6E, and whether or not our other units can screw up their advantages, such as beast-charging to deny FC, picking off the Nob with CCB hits (unlikely though because of 2W), etc.

I don't think this codex is anything close to competitive either. It's not going to change the metagame, but it seems like it's balance enough that it will be able to deal with whatever the metagame spits out, even if its not optimal. We've got a lot of tools but there isn't anything here that's really good enough to spam like most of the other codices have. We don't have anything like 15xML lists, or cheap meltas all around, but I think that there isn't a whole lot out there that we can't conceivably deal with, even though it might have a clear advantage over us.

Dr. Delorean wrote:

Turn 1, Night Fighting rules "apply" - verbatim from codex.
Turn 1 - my shooting - I am subject to Night Fighting rules.
Turn 1.5 - Necrons use Solar Pule and Night Fighting rules "cease to apply" until the end of the turn.

Turn ends.

Turn 2 - Imotekh may "keep Night Fighting rules in effect". But there are no Night Fighting rules, they have "ceased to apply".

Ah, but there you go:

Turn 1.5 - Necrons use Solar Pulse and Night Fighting Rules "cease to apply" until the end of the turn.
Turn Ends, Night Fighting comes back into play as per the Solar Pulse ruling.

Turn 2 - Imotekh keeps Night Fighting in effect since it continued to apply at the end of Turn 1.

You're including a timing step that is not there. The end of turn 1 is simultaneously the beginning of turn 2. There is no "substep" between the two where Night Fighting starts again. That is not supported by the rules.

Edit: Like I said, I'm not trying to convince anyone. Everyone is simply saying "Well that is incorrect.", when there is obviously room for other points-of-view. If there wasn't, this wouldn't have come up in the first place.

Whuh? I've never heard of that. Admittedly it's never really come up as potentially interfering with anything before. Why isn't there a substep between turn 1 and turn 2? Where isn't it supported in the rules?

Arandmoor wrote:Oh...vs. hordes...

Take a squad of 20 warriors.
Throw in a Pheron.

20 Warriors + relentless = the stuff ork nightmares are made of

I just think 180 boyz with cover is going to be trouble. Guess we'll see.

puma713 wrote:

Dr. Delorean wrote:

Turn 1, Night Fighting rules "apply" - verbatim from codex.
Turn 1 - my shooting - I am subject to Night Fighting rules.
Turn 1.5 - Necrons use Solar Pule and Night Fighting rules "cease to apply" until the end of the turn.

Turn ends.

Turn 2 - Imotekh may "keep Night Fighting rules in effect". But there are no Night Fighting rules, they have "ceased to apply".

Ah, but there you go:

Turn 1.5 - Necrons use Solar Pulse and Night Fighting Rules "cease to apply" until the end of the turn.
Turn Ends, Night Fighting comes back into play as per the Solar Pulse ruling.

Turn 2 - Imotekh keeps Night Fighting in effect since it continued to apply at the end of Turn 1.

You're including a timing step that is not there. The end of turn 1 is simultaneously the beginning of turn 2. There is no "substep" between the two where Night Fighting starts again. That is not supported by the rules.

But there is: The end of the current "Game Turn". The BGB makes a clear distinction between "Turns" and "Game Turns" (BGB, pg. 9). The solar pulse clearly uses the term "Turn" while Lord of the Storm clearly uses the term "Game Turn". Of course...I'm not sure we're actually arguing about anything unless someone still thinks a Solar Pulse stops Imotekh from extending night fighting.

Dr. Delorean wrote:

Turn 1, Night Fighting rules "apply" - verbatim from codex.
Turn 1 - my shooting - I am subject to Night Fighting rules.
Turn 1.5 - Necrons use Solar Pule and Night Fighting rules "cease to apply" until the end of the turn.

Turn ends.

Turn 2 - Imotekh may "keep Night Fighting rules in effect". But there are no Night Fighting rules, they have "ceased to apply".

Ah, but there you go:

Turn 1.5 - Necrons use Solar Pulse and Night Fighting Rules "cease to apply" until the end of the turn.
Turn Ends, Night Fighting comes back into play as per the Solar Pulse ruling.

Turn 2 - Imotekh keeps Night Fighting in effect since it continued to apply at the end of Turn 1.

That's exactly right and how I'm looking at it. The part that gets me though is the rule states that on a failed D6 roll to continue Night Fight that the rules cease and are not used for the rest of the battle. That conflicts with Solar Pulse in my opinion, in that since Night Fight rules "are not used for the rest of the battle" then Solar Pulse is effectively useless. I think it needs an FAQ as I'm guessing this isn't what Ward was intending. Would help if I read to the end of the rule, where it talks about Solar Pulse... it implies that Solar Pulse can be used even after Night Fighting ends.

Anyway... Solar Pulse alters the state of Night Fight until the end of the player (Necron) turn, at which point it simultaneously reverts back to the state of Night Fight as it was prior to activating the Solar Pulse. If the result of this is that Night Fight is put back in play, then I don't see why you wouldn't be able to roll to keep Night Fight going at the start of your next turn?

Dr. Delorean wrote:Whuh? I've never heard of that. Admittedly it's never really come up as potentially interfering with anything before. Why isn't there a substep between turn 1 and turn 2? Where isn't it supported in the rules?

Because it is a permissive ruleset. You must be told that you can do something, not that you cannot do something. It would be like me saying, "My Eldar Guardians are Str. 10!" And you would say, "No they're not!" Then I would say, "But the rules don't say they're not!"

You have to have permission to include steps or substeps. The fact you do not have permission to add timing between the end of a turn and the beginning of a turn means that there is no timing between the two.

In fact, there is no "end of turn" in the rules. The end of turn 1 is simply signified by the opponent beginning his next turn.

puma713 wrote:

Arandmoor wrote:Oh...vs. hordes...

Take a squad of 20 warriors.
Throw in a Pheron.

20 Warriors + relentless = the stuff ork nightmares are made of

I just think 180 boyz with cover is going to be trouble. Guess we'll see.

You know, it never even occurred to me that they'd have cover.

Yeah, that's going to be interesting.

One of the rumours for 6th edition is that the cover bonus will be reduced to a 5+ instead, if this is true that'd make those Ork units a lot less durable.

Arandmoor wrote:

But there is: The end of the current "Game Turn". The BGB makes a clear distinction between "Turns" and "Game Turns" (BGB, pg. 9). The solar pulse clearly uses the term "Turn" while Lord of the Storm clearly uses the term "Game Turn". Of course...I'm not sure we're actually arguing about anything unless someone still thinks a Solar Pulse stops Imotekh from extending night fighting.

No, that is something that we, as gamers, have added to the sequence. There is no "end of turn" part of the sequence. Look on page 9 - there are 3 parts of the turn. Movement Phase, Shooting Phase and Assault Phase.

The turn ends when your opponent begins his phases and hence, his turn. We simply give it defintion by letting our opponent know our turn is done.

peebzguy wrote:

Dr. Delorean wrote:

Turn 1, Night Fighting rules "apply" - verbatim from codex.
Turn 1 - my shooting - I am subject to Night Fighting rules.
Turn 1.5 - Necrons use Solar Pule and Night Fighting rules "cease to apply" until the end of the turn.

Turn ends.

Turn 2 - Imotekh may "keep Night Fighting rules in effect". But there are no Night Fighting rules, they have "ceased to apply".

Ah, but there you go:

Turn 1.5 - Necrons use Solar Pulse and Night Fighting Rules "cease to apply" until the end of the turn.
Turn Ends, Night Fighting comes back into play as per the Solar Pulse ruling.

Turn 2 - Imotekh keeps Night Fighting in effect since it continued to apply at the end of Turn 1.

That's exactly right and how I'm looking at it. The part that gets me though is the rule states that on a failed D6 roll to continue Night Fight that the rules cease and are not used for the rest of the battle. That conflicts with Solar Pulse in my opinion, in that since Night Fight rules "are not used for the rest of the battle" then Solar Pulse is effectively useless. I think it needs an FAQ as I'm guessing this isn't what Ward was intending.

Okay...you are trying to discuss something completely different.

And there's no way in hell Imotekh negating a solar pulse used in the opponent's turn is the intention. That would be stupid. Negating lightning? I can see that. The wording is vague.

If you're in a game and someone tries to avoid your solar pulse in their turn because you have Imotekh on the board...you could probably get away with punching them. The wording at the end of Lord of the Storm is there to prevent some derper from trying to get away with re-starting night fighting with Imotek's Lord of the Storm after rolling a 1 at the beginning of turn 2.

I'm not opposed to my opponent spending nearly 300 points on 1 definite turn of Night Fighting and Solar Pulse. It would be just like Dawn of War, just reserve everything.

puma713 wrote:

Arandmoor wrote:

But there is: The end of the current "Game Turn". The BGB makes a clear distinction between "Turns" and "Game Turns" (BGB, pg. 9). The solar pulse clearly uses the term "Turn" while Lord of the Storm clearly uses the term "Game Turn". Of course...I'm not sure we're actually arguing about anything unless someone still thinks a Solar Pulse stops Imotekh from extending night fighting.

No, that is something that we, as gamers, have added to the sequence. There is no "end of turn" part of the sequence. Look on page 9 - there are 3 parts of the turn. Movement Phase, Shooting Phase and Assault Phase.

The turn ends when your opponent begins his phases and hence, his turn. We simply give it defintion by letting our opponent know our turn is done.

Question: Does the existence of a "sub-step" between turns actually matter to anything?

Night fighting comes back into play at the end of the turn, and Imotekh checks for Lord of the Storm at the beginning of the turn. Seems cut-and-dry to me.

But what your are saying is that the End of Turn 1 and the Start of Turn 2 are indistinguishable and therefore the same. But this isn't true, they are two entirely separate sequences. As such, something that explicitly and solely happens in Turn 1, no matter when in turn 1 it occurs, does not happen in Turn 2 as well.

Arandmoor wrote:

Question: Does the existence of a "sub-step" between turns actually matter to anything?

Night fighting comes back into play at the end of the turn, and Imotekh checks for Lord of the Storm at the beginning of the turn. Seems cut-and-dry to me.

That's the real question, if that timing matters. It probably doesn't. But I didn't think it was so cut-and-dry.

There are scarier choices in the Necron codex in my eyes. Especially when Space Wolves, Dark Eldar, IG/Space Marines with Searchlights and Tau with Markerlights may not really care much about Night Fighting.

Dr. Delorean wrote:But what your are saying is that the End of Turn 1 and the Start of Turn 2 are indistinguishable and therefore the same. But this isn't true, they are two entirely separate sequences. As such, something that explicitly and solely happens in Turn 1, no matter when in turn 1 it occurs, does not happen in Turn 2 as well.

This.

Having read through the Codex, I have to say that the Necrons can bring some very scary toys to the table, but they are extremely vulnerable to psychic powers (I'm going to have a field day with JOTWW...) and the army-wide I2 is going to hurt them in combat.

Dr. Delorean wrote:But what your are saying is that the End of Turn 1 and the Start of Turn 2 are indistinguishable and therefore the same. But this isn't true, they are two entirely separate sequences.

Can you give me a page number, please?

Edit: It's not there. The rulebook even says that the phases are in place to help you distinguish where one person's turn ends and the other begins. There is no "end turn sequence". The end of turn 1 is the beginning of turn 2. They are one in the same. We like to give it sequence because we, as humans, think laterally, but it is not supported in the rules.

If you want to continue, we can take this to YMDC, but I don't really care enough to argue about it. I can tell you you're right, if it'll make you feel better.

I don't think there's a page number to point out puma, at least I wouldn't know where to look. It's a state change. The state of the game is that we are currently in the Necron player's Turn 1, at the end of that turn we change state to Necron Opponent player's Turn 1, then we state change again to Necron player's Turn 2... etc.. That's not really something you make a rule for, it's been a notion in gaming since forever.

Ok. since my codex wont arrive for another day and a half, can someone tell me what a phaeron is and what it gives a unit it attaches to or upgrades with. Ive heard it mentioned along with relentless. Pretty much, what is it and what does it do.

The Metal Tide wrote:Ok. since my codex wont arrive for another day and a half, can someone tell me what a phaeron is and what it gives a unit it attaches to or upgrades with. Ive heard it mentioned along with relentless. Pretty much, what is it and what does it do.

It gives them and the squad they're attached to the relentless special rule.

peebzguy wrote:

The Metal Tide wrote:Ok. since my codex wont arrive for another day and a half, can someone tell me what a phaeron is and what it gives a unit it attaches to or upgrades with. Ive heard it mentioned along with relentless. Pretty much, what is it and what does it do.

It gives them and the squad they're attached to the relentless special rule.

So.... are they part of a royal court?

The Metal Tide wrote:

peebzguy wrote:

The Metal Tide wrote:Ok. since my codex wont arrive for another day and a half, can someone tell me what a phaeron is and what it gives a unit it attaches to or upgrades with. Ive heard it mentioned along with relentless. Pretty much, what is it and what does it do.

It gives them and the squad they're attached to the relentless special rule.

So.... are they part of a royal court?

It's an upgrade for Overlords.

The Metal Tide wrote:

peebzguy wrote:

The Metal Tide wrote:Ok. since my codex wont arrive for another day and a half, can someone tell me what a phaeron is and what it gives a unit it attaches to or upgrades with. Ive heard it mentioned along with relentless. Pretty much, what is it and what does it do.

It gives them and the squad they're attached to the relentless special rule.

So.... are they part of a royal court?

It is a special rule some Overlords have.

The fact that one is called Turn 1 and one is called Turn 2?

I don't think there's a page in the rulebook saying "These two turns are different 'cos of the numbers" since that is self evident.
Otherwise all turns are indistinguishable from one another and the whole structure becomes a mess.

I am not trying to be condescending here, please don't read this in a tone of condescension, I just don't really know how to better explain a concept that pervades the entire game so completely.

Thanks

Haven't noticed anyone exclaiming how fantastic it is that power weapons and double strength doesn't over ride WBB rolls now.

Okay...whoever was saying that the Triarch Stalker is garbage needs to take another look at it.

I'd put it almost on par with a Chaos Defiler if you spend the 5 points for a Particle Shredder. Yes you lose some important stuff, but the stalker has better armor before a penetrating hit is scored (that doesn't kill it outright), and twin-links all necron shooting attacks against the targeted unit if it scores at least one hit (not hard with a big pie-plate and a BS of 4).

With all the shooting we do, that targeting relay is going to bring some pain...

Besides which, it's an elite. So you don't have to give up any monoliths, doomsday arks, annilihation barges, or spyders to take them.

But seriously, I've seen people utterly dismiss the targeting relay. That ability will push your shooting over the top when used correctly.

As I've now got my hands on the retail codex (as many people have), I thought it would be a little fun to post a summary of the differences between the 'rumors' I posted before of what the codex would contain and what is in the actual book, as a way to perhaps see how the army design changed from an earlier concept to the final one.


ARMY-WIDE SPECIAL RULES

• The Wording for Entropic Strike definitely changed, as the original version did say 'at the end of the phase' when it came to degrading vehicle armor, so clearly they decided they wanted Scarabs and other models with Entropic Strike to be even MORE deadly against enemy vehicles (and without raising the points cost of anything with the ability).


WARGEAR

• Gauss Cannons did drop from 36" to 24". I guess that they really did want reinforce the super-short range shootiness of the Necrons and once they upped the max squad size for regular destroyers they were probably didn't like that people would build whole armies around Destroyers to get a bunch of longer ranged shots.

• I did get how Quantum Shielding worked wrong, but that's only because the older version had a very bad typo in it that made it unclear whether or not glancing hits also removed the shielding. So I don't think this was so much a change, but rather just cleaning up the wording of the rule.

• The 'Exile Beamer' changed into the 'Transdimensional Beamer', but yet somehow it remained a Heavy Weapon (so the Wraiths cannot move and shoot it)? Craziness, IMHO!

• The Warscythe did indeed gain the extra D6 for armor penetration against vehicles, which is huge. But the Warscythe did go from being a free swap for an Overlord's Staff of Light to a 10 point upgrade, so obviously this was a change made (and not just an oversight in the original version). Interestingly, the points cost for Lychguard remained the same despite the buff to their standard weapon, which makes me think that perhaps the return of the bonus penetration was done primarily to help boost the desirability of fielding Lychguard carrying Warscythes.


HQ

• Overlords and some named characters gained the 'Phaeron' rule (or the ability to take the rule in the case of a basic overlord).

• Imotekh went up 5 points from his original cost, but gained 'Phaeron' (which is a 20 pt upgrade for a basic overlord). Also, Imotekh's abilty to generate a bonus Kill Point when killing an IC or Monstrous Creature morphed into just an extra D3 casualties towards combat resolution...I've got to say, I'm really sad to see this rule change. I know it would have been pretty rare for him to get this bonus as he's not that great in combat, but I think the extra Kill Point would have been a really good reason to gamble with putting him into CC. As it stands now, the extra combat resolution bonus is hardly a good reason to ever risk putting him into CC against an enemy character. So overall, it does seem like they felt Imotekh was a bit too powerful (or else that Kill Point rule was too situational since it wouldn't affect 2/3 of games)?

• Nemesor Zahndrekh went down 5 points, but lost his Void Blade for a Staff of Light (bummer). I guess they were really trying to differentiate him from his bodyguard Obyron.

• Oirkan went up 15 points, but got a Transdimensional Beamer (which normally gots 15 points, so it makes sense).

• Anrakyr went down 5 points despite the fact that his Warscythe improved its armor pen abilities.

• Trazyn went up 15 points but gained 'Phaeron'.

• Regular Overlords went down by 5 points but gained the ability to take 'Phaeron'. Hyperphase sword went from 10 points to a free swap. Warscythe went from a free swap to 10 points.

• Destroyer Lords did have the option to take a Staff of Light, so I'm not sure how I misread that before!


TROOPS

• Necron Warriors did go up from 12 to 13 points each.


FAST ATTACK

• Wraiths went down by 5 points, but lost Reanimation Protocols. The particle caster option also dropped by 5 points.

• Scarabs stayed the same cost, but lost Reanimation Protocols although gained a ton of power (against enemy vehicles) through the Entropic Strike boost to compensate.

• Tomb Blade particle beamer upgrade went down 10 points.

• Destroyers went up 5 points, and increased their max squad size from 3 to 5 (although still only 3 are able to upgrade to Heavy Destroyers). Of course, their main weapon also dropped its range by 12" as well! Oh, and the cost for upgrading to a Heavy dropped by 5 as well, meaning Heavy Destroyers were effectively 60 points previously just as they are in the final version.


HEAVY SUPPORT

• Tomb Spyders probably went through the biggest change...their name changed to 'Canoptek Spyder' for starters (instead of 'Tomb Spyder Phalanx'). Their base cost remained the same, but they lost Reanimation Protocols. They previously came equipped base with two 'Dissection Claws' which were basically just two CC weapons (which meant that Spyders would have the bonus attack in CC if they didn't upgrade at all). You could exchange either (or both) Dissection Claws for Fabricator Claws at 10 pts each, and if you had 2 Dissection Claws you then had a +1 on your roll to fix vehicles (so basically a 4+). Now it just costs 10 points to get Fabricator Claws and the best the roll can be is a 4+.

You could also exchange one Dissection Claw for a Whip Coil for 10 points (an option that is sadly not in the final release). And you could exchange one or both Dissection Claws for Particle Beamers (20 pts each), which mean you could have had two separate Particle Beam shots for an extra 40 pts if you wanted. Now you just have one upgrade option to a twin-linked Particle Beamer for 25 points.



So there you have it. A (hopefully) complete breakdown of exactly where my rumors differed from the final release version and some insight on how GW did some final tweaks on some units.

Dr. Delorean wrote:The fact that one is called Turn 1 and one is called Turn 2?

I don't think there's a page in the rulebook saying "These two turns are different 'cos of the numbers" since that is self evident.
Otherwise all turns are indistinguishable from one another and the whole structure becomes a mess.

I am not trying to be condescending here, please don't read this in a tone of condescension, I just don't really know how to better explain a concept that pervades the entire game so completely.

As I said, we can take it to YMDC if you like. The reason there are rules is so that you know how to play. You cannot "assume" in a permissive ruleset - bad things happen. So, what do we do when we can't assume? We follow the rulebook completely. The rulebook doesn't tell you to end your turn. The rulebook tells your opponent to simply begin his turn.

While I know this isn't something you're ready to accept - it is how games in general work. You think that the idea "pervades the entire game so completely" because you're used to playing and you know how the game flows. You know that when assaults are over, it is your opponent's turn. In fact, you probably wouldn't even have to say "Your turn.", but we do it to be polite.

You might think I'm being obtuse or argumentative, but neither is the case. The way a turn ends is not the same in Warhammer 40K, to Warmachine, to Monopoly, to Connect 4. You have to be told, in the rules, how a turn ends. You might think it is common sense, but if you put yourself in the shoes of someone who has never read the rulebook, you'll understand where us "rules" types are coming from. If you've never read the rulebook, you might wonder where the turn ends, since it never says. It simply refers to the phases of the turn and how they dictate where one turn ends and the other begins.

Imotekh and Trazyn are also phaeron's and so therefore grant the unit they've joined relentless.

Arandmoor wrote:Okay...whoever was saying that the Triarch Stalker is garbage needs to take another look at it.

I'd put it almost on par with a Chaos Defiler if you spend the 5 points for a Particle Shredder. Yes you lose some important stuff, but the stalker has better armor before a penetrating hit is scored (that doesn't kill it outright), and twin-links all necron shooting attacks against the targeted unit if it scores at least one hit (not hard with a big pie-plate and a BS of 4).

With all the shooting we do, that targeting relay is going to bring some pain...

Besides which, it's an elite. So you don't have to give up any monoliths, doomsday arks, annilihation barges, or spyders to take them.

But seriously, I've seen people utterly dismiss the targeting relay. That ability will push your shooting over the top when used correctly.

Also, you can take a 36" twin-linked heavy gauss cannon on them if you're really, really scared about having them get shot up if they're up front with everything else.

...could you imagine the devastation wrought by a squad or two of tesla-equpied shooting augmented by the targeting array?

Arandmoor wrote:Also, you can take a 36" twin-linked heavy gauss cannon on them if you're really, really scared about having them get shot up if they're up front with everything else.

...could you imagine the devastation wrought by a squad or two of tesla-equpied shooting augmented by the targeting array?

Who is "them" that you're speaking of?

yakface wrote:
*snip*

Didn't notice the 'Heavy' with Transdimensional Beamer. So, Orikan can't move and shoot either, but he can if he's with a Phaeron.

peebzguy wrote:

Arandmoor wrote:Also, you can take a 36" twin-linked heavy gauss cannon on them if you're really, really scared about having them get shot up if they're up front with everything else.

...could you imagine the devastation wrought by a squad or two of tesla-equpied shooting augmented by the targeting array?

Who is "them" that you're speaking of?

See my post above that. I'll edit so it makes more sense.

Edit: Triarch Stalkers. I'm in love with their targeting array rule.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wow...even our lords have I2 now...

So I'm curious to where people are leaning on this with? Does the order of a model with entropic strike go roll to hit, then entropic check on a 4+, then roll to penetrate? or roll to hit then roll to penetrate then entropic check?

If it's the first that actually helped out scarabs significantly. with 5 attacks on the charge and the fact spyders can increase scarab squads beyond their starting size you could very likely get 12 scarabs to assault a vehicle if played well. 60 attacks on the charge will certainly mess some tanks up.

puma713 wrote:

yakface wrote:
*snip*

Didn't notice the 'Heavy' with Transdimensional Beamer. So, Orikan can't move and shoot either, but he can if he's with a Phaeron.

That's too funny. So if you're crazy enough to take Wraiths with Transdimensional Beamers then you'd definitely want to also take a character with 'Phaeron' and then have them join together the turn they want to fire their beamers! Hell, you can still have the Wraiths move 12" and join the character and then he uses his big booming 'Phaeron' voice to tell them to shoot their guns real quick-like.

I wonder if anyone would be crazy enough to build a Wraith unit with a bunch of Beamers escorted around by a Phaeron Overlord to allow them to shoot...just waiting for the turn to pop through the Monolith Portal and zap somebody. Sounds like a terrible plan, but someone will try it, right?






Automatically Appended Next Post:

hollowmirror wrote:So I'm curious to where people are leaning on this with? Does the order of a model with entropic strike go roll to hit, then entropic check on a 4+, then roll to penetrate? or roll to hit then roll to penetrate then entropic check?

If it's the first that actually helped out scarabs significantly. with 5 attacks on the charge and the fact spyders can increase scarab squads beyond their starting size you could very likely get 12 scarabs to assault a vehicle if played well. 60 attacks on the charge will certainly mess some tanks up.

There's no question. Upon hitting you immediately check to see if you erode the vehicle's armor.

Scarabs will most definitely wreck vehicles like there is no tomorrow.

hollowmirror wrote:So I'm curious to where people are leaning on this with? Does the order of a model with entropic strike go roll to hit, then entropic check on a 4+, then roll to penetrate? or roll to hit then roll to penetrate then entropic check?

If it's the first that actually helped out scarabs significantly. with 5 attacks on the charge and the fact spyders can increase scarab squads beyond their starting size you could very likely get 12 scarabs to assault a vehicle if played well. 60 attacks on the charge will certainly mess some tanks up.

The roll to remove character armor (SV -) happens after their armor roll is failed.

When attacking a vehicle you roll to hit as normal, then check to see if anything penetrated the armor.
Entropic strike affects vehicles after the roll to hit so yes, scarab swarms eat vehicles like little else. Expect to see scarab swarms in every single necron list from now until they remove entropic strike in our next codex (because of Marines QQing about their "precious landraiders").

Step 1: Buy a unit of Heavy Destroyers
Step 2: Buy an Overlord with the Phaeron upgrade
Step 3: ????
Step 4: Have a very expensive unit which has Relentless lascannons.

yakface wrote:
I wonder if anyone would be crazy enough to build a Wraith unit with a bunch of Beamers escorted around by a Phaeron Overlord to allow them to shoot...just waiting for the turn to pop through the Monolith Portal and zap somebody. Sounds like a terrible plan, but someone will try it, right?

Not me. I've got my eyes set on Whip Coils + Time's Arrow


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dr. Delorean wrote:Step 1: Buy a unit of Heavy Destroyers
Step 2: Buy an Overlord with the Phaeron upgrade
Step 3: ????
Step 4: Have a very expensive unit which has Relentless lascasnnons.

Heavy Gauss Cannons are already assault. No need for relentless.

Dr. Delorean wrote:Step 1: Buy a unit of Heavy Destroyers
Step 2: Buy an Overlord with the Phaeron upgrade
Step 3: ????
Step 4: Have a very expensive unit which has Relentless lascasnnons.

Suck it, Longfangs

Edit: ninja'd :(

hollowmirror wrote:So I'm curious to where people are leaning on this with? Does the order of a model with entropic strike go roll to hit, then entropic check on a 4+, then roll to penetrate? or roll to hit then roll to penetrate then entropic check?

If it's the first that actually helped out scarabs significantly. with 5 attacks on the charge and the fact spyders can increase scarab squads beyond their starting size you could very likely get 12 scarabs to assault a vehicle if played well. 60 attacks on the charge will certainly mess some tanks up.

I think the Entropic ability goes off as soon as the hit does. So, let's say you get 10 "hits", you immediately roll 10D6. Then you apply their penetration rolls.


So, for instance, a Land Raider moves 12". A full unit of Scarabs attacks it. That's 50 attacks at 16.667% chance to hit. That would average 8 hits. Average of 4 Entropic Strikes would mean it would be an AV 10 Land Raider. The Scarabs wouldn't be able to punch through, but they'd have severly weakened it.

Now, take this into account:

Take Nemesor and give Scarabs Furious Charge. Now, they'll be eating the armour away at a faster Initiative than anything else in combat with it. So, then, they'd lower the AV of a vehicle before Wraiths or other units swing. Not only that, but if they had Furious Charge, they'd be Str. 4 and could glance an AV 10 Land Raider.

Whoops, they are indeed Assault! Holy crap, Assault lascannons...

If I knew I'd be going into an objectives based game, I would almost certainly take Imotekh at this point along with a C'tan with Writhing Worldscape... the use of Night Fight would be primo-awesome when establishing control of objectives... hmmm... I love this codex, there are so many different things you can do!

D:

Dr. Delorean wrote:Whoops, they are indeed Assault! Holy crap, Assault lascannons...

On a model with preferred enemy (everything!).

They're not invincible units of destruction (TM...we're not marines QQ) but it's going to be more than enough to finish off some units.

I can see a pretty nasty combo in the pipe...

5 destroyers + a warscyth-packing destroyer lord.

Shooting phase you zap a marine tac squad with your particle shredder equipped triarch stalker, then follow up with your destroyer squad (twinlinked if you hit just once with the stalker...not hard).
Assault phase you assault the survivers to clean up.

So...assume the stalker scatters hard, hits one model and then fails to kill (armor save say...lets just say)
That leaves 10 healthy marines in cover for the destroyers.

The destroyers move 12" to negate the marines' cover (because they're jump infantry, and they do stuff like that) and open fire.
That's 5 models shooting twice at BS4, so 6 hit and 4 miss. But wait! They're twinlinked! From the 4 rerolls we get two more hits (rounding both partials up because I murphy'd the stalker) for a total of 8.
S5 wounds marines on 3's so 8 hits equates to 5-6 wounds (we'll round down because they're marines. They probably have some special rule or something).
AP3 means no armor. Poor marines (not really)

Then we assault...actually I don't like those odds. Going to take some casualties in my destroyer squad at this rate...meh. Lets keep going just for kicks.
So we assault. Do marines have defensive grenades? They're marines. We'll just assume they do because they're douchebags.
So they go first and get all stabby-like. Two attacks each for the pistol + ccw (despite having bolters too) except for the sergeant who's packing a power fist.

Oh wait...except I'm not totally derp-tastic and packed my destroyer lord with Mindcontrol Scarabs. We'll randomly roll the sergeant because that sounds like fun (I know the odds are against...but this is purely hypothetical...and you KNOW that when you're the one playing the marines you'll randomly roll the sergeant every time).
So 3d6 vs. ld 9. Avg roll on 3d6 is 3.5x3 or 10.5 which is no good. On average he loses at life so...

4 marines attacking twice. They hit on 4's so that's 4 hits even. S4 vs. T5 so they wound on 5's for 1 wound that then probably gets saved.
Necrons go now...
5 attacks from the destroyers (cheating grenades on the marines because I'm too lazy to look it up) all at WS4 vs WS4 so 2 hits, 1 wound, and 1 save from the necron destroyers.
Oh wait...preferred enemy. 3 rerolls = 2 more hits (again...rounding multiple partials up), 1 more wound, but this time he probably fails the armor save. And then there were 4.

Now 3 attacks from the destroyer lord.
3 attacks, 1 hit, 2 rerolls, 1 more hit.
S7 warscythe vs T4 = they get beat. 2 more dead. And then there were 2.

The mind controlled sergeant then opens up a can of whoop-ass on his buddy and pounds him into paste.

And then there was 1.

Marine turn!
Oh...no shooty-shooty at the destroyers for you. They're in CC.
Assuming no new assaults on the CC because I'm not out of position like some people.
Enemy assault phase...the necrons mop up the (once again) mind controlled sergeant ("We randomly picked you out of a group. Of...you. I'm as surprised as you are.")

New necron turn. Oh look...no enemies in CC. The destroyers can move and shoot again.

Not bad...

puma713 wrote:

hollowmirror wrote:So I'm curious to where people are leaning on this with? Does the order of a model with entropic strike go roll to hit, then entropic check on a 4+, then roll to penetrate? or roll to hit then roll to penetrate then entropic check?

If it's the first that actually helped out scarabs significantly. with 5 attacks on the charge and the fact spyders can increase scarab squads beyond their starting size you could very likely get 12 scarabs to assault a vehicle if played well. 60 attacks on the charge will certainly mess some tanks up.

I think the Entropic ability goes off as soon as the hit does. So, let's say you get 10 "hits", you immediately roll 10D6. Then you apply their penetration rolls.


So, for instance, a Land Raider moves 12". A full unit of Scarabs attacks it. That's 50 attacks at 16.667% chance to hit. That would average 8 hits. Average of 4 Entropic Strikes would mean it would be an AV 10 Land Raider. The Scarabs wouldn't be able to punch through, but they'd have severly weakened it.

Now, take this into account:

Take Nemesor and give Scarabs Furious Charge. Now, they'll be eating the armour away at a faster Initiative than anything else in combat with it. So, then, they'd lower the AV of a vehicle before Wraiths or other units swing. Not only that, but if they had Furious Charge, they'd be Str. 4 and could glance an AV 10 Land Raider.

And if you're hitting anything other than an LR, all of a sudden your freakin' gauss flayers are penetrating armor.

I swear. Nercons have a markerlight that twin-links all weapons shooting the target it hit.

So much for ANY codex having ANYTHING unique. The next tau codex will have psychers, mark my words.

Ostrakon wrote:
And if you're hitting anything other than an LR, all of a sudden your freakin' gauss flayers are penetrating armor.

As nasty a target as a LR is...there are other vehicles out there.

Rhinos don't have the AV to survive. Doesn't matter how far they moved.
Dreadnoughts will get to crush some of your swarm bases, but will go down quite quickly.
Lemon Russes are just toast if they shot.

Anything immoble is a foregone conclusion. So, glance them with warriors unit you hit an immobilized result and then have the scarabs mop up.
Tremorstaves can help this too. it says nothing about being ignored by vehicles, and the threat of dangerous terrain could either cause your opponent to not move the vehicle on his turn, or immobilize it if he feels he has no choice and moves it anyway.


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juraigamer wrote:I swear. Nercons have a markerlight that twin-links all weapons shooting the target it hit.

So much for ANY codex having ANYTHING unique. The next tau codex will have psychers, mark my words.

We also got access to the webway. All your rulez/fluff are belong to us.

well if anyone is going to want the closest thing we have to a very funny deathstar we can take obyron and nemesor both attached to a unit of necron lords with sempiternal weave, phase shifter, mindshackle scarabs, and warscythes.

The unit would cost 895 points and you'd have 6 warscythes in the unit, 6 2+/3+, the ability to deepstrike if you want even out of combat, a USR of your choice each turn, a res. orb, and the biggest thing of all 5 mindshackle scarabs.

5 random 3d6 leadership tests on the enemy and every failure will make a enemy model hit his own unit d3 hits with the weapon of your choice.

I love how everyone tries to build things around beating space marines, but the real enemy is imperial guard.

Oh...something else I noticed...

If you roll a 6 on the to-hit during a command barge fly-by...

...you get to decide which model takes that wound.

...squee!

I think Necrons have the tools to beat parking lot IG armies with no problem.

DODcrazy wrote:I love how everyone tries to build things around beating space marines, but the real enemy is imperial guard.

With like nine codexes featuring *just marines* clogging the shelves/release schedule, you bet your ass marines are the enemy. Until they get less books compared to everyone else, they are the enemy.

Of course...that's all beyond the scope of this thread...

Arandmoor wrote:

DODcrazy wrote:I love how everyone tries to build things around beating space marines, but the real enemy is imperial guard.

With like nine codexes featuring *just marines* clogging the shelves/release schedule, you bet your ass marines are the enemy. Until they get less books compared to everyone else, they are the enemy.

Of course...that's all beyond the scope of this thread...

Everything is in scope until we get to 200

peebzguy wrote:
Everything is in scope until we get to 200

As much as I agree...

Seriously...what do you think about a C'tan shard with Time's Arrow and like 3 wraiths with Whip Coils? For a low/mid point game.

I don't quite know why, but it bothers me more than it should that you get saves against a Triarch Stalker's CC attacks. Hell, no saves against Spyders, but your Catachan t-shirt will stop THAT?!


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Arandmoor wrote:

peebzguy wrote:
Everything is in scope until we get to 200

As much as I agree...

Seriously...what do you think about a C'tan shard with Time's Arrow and like 3 wraiths with Whip Coils? For a low/mid point game.

Suggested it like 700 pages ago, but I think I was being too subtle.
I quite like it, personally.

...oh

If I give a wraith a particle caster...he gets a pistol. Will that effectively raise his A to 4 in CC? (not worth it over a whip coil IMO...well...not for the whole squad at least)


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Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:I don't quite know why, but it bothers me more than it should that you get saves against a Triarch Stalker's CC attacks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Arandmoor wrote:

peebzguy wrote:
Everything is in scope until we get to 200

As much as I agree...

Seriously...what do you think about a C'tan shard with Time's Arrow and like 3 wraiths with Whip Coils? For a low/mid point game.

Suggested it like 700 pages ago, but I think I was being too subtle.
I quite like it, personally.

I skipped like 5 pages of posts.

I just like how *you* get to pick the targeted enemy model.

Wraiths don't have any CCWs, so adding a single pistol won't give them +1A.

Arandmoor wrote:Oh...something else I noticed...

If you roll a 6 on the to-hit during a command barge fly-by...

...you get to decide which model takes that wound.

...squee!

Picking out the sarge/sanguinary priest/Nob/cryptek/Lord/meltagun/etc will be pretty nice.

Arandmoor wrote:If I give a wraith a particle caster...he gets a pistol. Will that effectively raise his A to 4 in CC? (not worth it over a whip coil IMO...well...not for the whole squad at least)

Yep! And a S6 AP5 shot on the way in, too.
Edit: Huh, MasterSlowPoke makes an interesting point...

Arandmoor wrote:I skipped like 5 pages of posts.

Oh, didn't mean you specifically, just that no one said anything about it then either.

Might be a little tough organizing the C'Tan and Wraiths to all get in combat at the same time, though, since they're faster than it. We'll see how it goes.


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I feel like the timing on Trazyn's Surrogate Hosts ability is unfortunate. It completely negates him having Reanimation Protocols, I believe, except in the event that he rolls a '1' on his "take someone over" roll. Ideally I'd think it should wait until he fails a RP roll; he's too damaged to get back up, so he just reincarnates elsewhere instead.

DODcrazy wrote:

Arandmoor wrote:

DODcrazy wrote:I love how everyone tries to build things around beating space marines, but the real enemy is imperial guard.

With like nine codexes featuring *just marines* clogging the shelves/release schedule, you bet your ass marines are the enemy. Until they get less books compared to everyone else, they are the enemy.

Of course...that's all beyond the scope of this thread...

Boo freakin hoo. The only reason I play 40k is because of space marines, and so do a lot of people. Not everyone enjoys silly space skeleton guys from the movie terminator. The marine hate seems to be everywhere and quite honestly it's obnoxious. I can't go into a store and unpack my army without some stupid moron commenting about how the space marines have this and that and how it's all GW cares about and how I should somehow regret buying those models and playing them, meanwhile he has some silly 12 year old necron or ork army.

I really just wanted to flip through this thread checking out the pictures and stuff but it just seems to be "herp derp I hate space marines herp derp butt hurt derp"

Not so much hate as jealousy.

Marines have over 50% of the codexs, they are updated very quickly every edition, they have the best toys (th/ss termies etc), if anyone else gets something unique (aka monoliths immune to melta) they lose it, but marines get it.

Seriously, if you can not understand why the player base gets sick of marines then you sir have tunnel vision.

Back on topic - I just put together the generic overlord and the stormlord.

Overlord was missing part of a foot due to bubbling, and stormlords power cable leading to his claw was subsumed in resin plastic, and had to be removed.

First overlord I opened in store to hundreds of pin bubbles, the store manager was quick with "have you heard about liquid greenstuff" - yeah that definitely wasn't going to fly.

GW staff also tried to sell me praetorians in a way that was jaw dropping, saying they are the greatest thing etc - and when I pointed out the myriad of issues they have, they tried to claim they were talking about the pistols, and killing tanks. I shook my head at them and just said "scarabs".

I do have 2 boxes coming from a much cheaper than GW Australia source, however they will turn into lychguard with shields, and the 2nd box will turn into crypteks. All my old school lords will get the nice new warscyths as well.

I had my partner with me when I went to purchase the codex and finecast and she thought, and I quote "they were creepy, and stared at me". I must admit that at 0900 on a Saturday I do expect better personal hygiene.

Okay, here's the plan:
Court of 5 Necron Lords, each with a 2+/3++ and Warscythe, for a mere 105 points/model!
Lead them with an Overlord with a Resurrection Orb and probably some other gear, and there you have your deathstar, for only about 700 points! Can't lose!

Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:Okay, here's the plan:
Court of 5 Necron Lords, each with a 2+/3++ and Warscythe, for a mere 105 points/model!
Lead them with an Overlord with a Resurrection Orb and probably some other gear, and there you have your deathstar, for only about 700 points! Can't lose!

I don't see what could possibly go wrong.

Okay, so between Tyranids and Necrons it's been a few forevers since I played an army with transports.
Let me know if I'm doing this right.

I can take my Night Scythe, Supersonic it up to the enemy flank to get in position and give it a cover save.
If it doesn't get blown up, on my next turn I can keep it stationary, disembark the Lychguard inside, fly it off, and then assault with the 'guard?

Ostrakon wrote:

Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:Okay, here's the plan:
Court of 5 Necron Lords, each with a 2+/3++ and Warscythe, for a mere 105 points/model!
Lead them with an Overlord with a Resurrection Orb and probably some other gear, and there you have your deathstar, for only about 700 points! Can't lose!

I don't see what could possibly go wrong.

*Demolisher round inbound!*

Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:Okay, so between Tyranids and Necrons it's been a few forevers since I played an army with transports.
Let me know if I'm doing this right.

I can take my Night Scythe, Supersonic it up to the enemy flank to get in position and give it a cover save.
If it doesn't get blown up, on my next turn I can keep it stationary, disembark the Lychguard inside, fly it off, and then assault with the 'guard?

Aye, but you should also be aware that an Immobilized result will wreck it as well, since it's a fast skimmer that moved flat-out.


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Happygrunt wrote:

Ostrakon wrote:

Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:Okay, here's the plan:
Court of 5 Necron Lords, each with a 2+/3++ and Warscythe, for a mere 105 points/model!
Lead them with an Overlord with a Resurrection Orb and probably some other gear, and there you have your deathstar, for only about 700 points! Can't lose!

I don't see what could possibly go wrong.

*Demolisher round inbound!*

Well, the funny part is that actually wouldn't accomplish a whole lot. 3++/4+++ means you only lose like one of the lords.

Man, that would be such a freaky 1000 point list. You'd never even come close to winning but you'd probably still last 5 turns with a 6 model force.

Ostrakon wrote:Aye, but you should also be aware that an Immobilized result will wreck it as well, since it's a fast skimmer that moved flat-out.

I think that's only if it moved flat-out that turn. As in, the same turn it got Immobilized. As in player turn. So pretty much only if you land it in Dangerous Terrain.
Common misconception.
Or I'm completely wrong and thinking of something else.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Further correction, Yakface:
Orikan's staff now only rerolls 'to-hit's, not 'to-wound's. =(

It's wrecked if it is imobilized after moving flat out in your turn, and shot down in the enemy's. If you manage to go flat out and fail dangerous terrain or get hit by a stray blast weapon in your turn a normal transport is destroyed along with any passengers (not guys in a night scythe though).

well personally i lik the new necrons and look forward to making and using them in games enemys??? tyranids!

61 minutes until Warhammer World opens. It's funny, I'm sitting right at the source at the moment, but everybody gets their stuff earlier. At least I only need it for the bits.

Powered through as much as possible of the new codex today, I have to say in general I am liking what I'm reading.

I don't think I can see any place in my army lists for Flayers or Deathmarks, but I really wish I could fit just about everything else! there just aren't enough points to fit everything I want, not by a long shot in 1850 games :S

I'm conflicted with the Triarch stalker currently, he really looks like he would almost be better with a twin linked heavy Gauss canon taking shots from 36" away and staying nearer the back providing AT fire support or twin linking not mech units in range of rapid fire / tesla weapons, without having a power weapon, he is ripe for being stuck in a tarpit, I think they should have costed him at 165 and given it power weapon attacks so it can handle itself in close combat.

Btw an (obvious) little trick to expand your number of Scarab bases: put 3 Scarabs on a base instead of 4, and you have 4 Scarab bases from one Warriors box. A base has 3 wounds on it's profile, so it is actually fitting too

TBD wrote:Btw an (obvious) little trick to expand your number of Scarab bases: put 3 Scarabs on a base instead of 4, and you have 4 Scarab bases from one Warriors box. A base has 3 wounds on it's profile, so it is actually fitting too

Pretty much what I'm doing. A) I get more bang for my buck and B) as you noted, it makes sense - 3 scarabs on a base, 3 wounds. That way all I need is 3 warriors boxes to get a full unit of scarabs. Hopefully a bunch of people will buy warriors and not need the scarabs, put them up on eBay for cheap.

Hah. Hah. Yeah, well, a man can dream, right?

Anyways. I'm going to -try- using pretty much everything. By which I mean, I'm getting enough to field a min unit of whatever. So I buy 2 boxes of Immortals/Deathmarks, try a min-max unit of Immortals, min-max Deathmarks, min of both... WITHOUT putting everything together and painting. Then, once I've tested things out to form an actual opinion, I'll decide how I want them set up and painted.

Speaking of which, anyone else trying something fancy with Necrons? For the heck of it, I want my Necrons to be a little something more than just black and metal... invested in a bit of color-shifting paint to denote 'living metal', and probably going with a snow Tomb World theme.

Okay, I've got my box of Triarch Praetorians/Lychguard. On a first glance the hands look exactly like those of Space Marines, if you look closer you see that the palms are different and the fingers are a bit more pointier and bone-like. I should have taken some green stuff with me.

Hey Guys. I just reread the rules on the Stormlord, and the Rules on the Solar Pulse, in the codex.

The Solar pulse says that it ceases to apply the nightfighting rules until the end of the turn, when it's used. This means that if Night fighting is in effect, it will still apply on the enemies turn.

I didn't read anything about the Solar pulse permanently cancelling the Stormlords ability, only that if he fails his roll to continue it, then it ceases to apply.

Someone else with a codex, can feel free to let me know if I Missed something in it, or if I"m correct about this.

Stormlord's night fighting is NOT permanently cancelled by the orb.

The current debate lies in does the stormlord get lightning strikes if you orb your shooting phase.

Its extremely grey, with the general consensus being no, but that MIGHT just be because it would make stormlord + overlord for 2 courts and 2 orbs mandatory in any tournies.

Therefore, I think we can all agree that it's likely going to need a FAQ for clarification how Solar Pulse interacts with the Stormlord's rules, both with Lightning Strikes and whether or not it may, or may not, cancel his abilities. The fact that there's been arguing here in this thread about it already, rather stubbornly, from both sides, indicates that it probably needs it.

For that matter, what else might need a possible FAQing?

There was the question whether C'tan's difficult->dangerous terrain worked with 'unit counts as moving through difficult terrain' style things like Orikan's first turn ability, or the Tremorstaves. Possibly also a clarification on the Death Ray, since there seemed to be some dispute on that one.

Personnally i think praetorians will be great if taken in bulk with rods since they have low shots and low range numbers will be key i know it would be the same wcost as 10 termies for the same.number but str 5 ap 2 means that unless they are ss th termies they are in trouble and then when they assult they sttike 1st a I 2
another example is against tactical marines their weapons grant them no saves at all and after even striking after the marines their durability really shows of 3+ 5++ and the power weapons would mince any marines left

their strength is postioning they will 9/10 get the charge making up for the lack of attacks and they are very durable jump infantry even more so with a destroyer lord with rez orb since they are JI too now

btw i apologize for any spelling or mistakes as im on a phone.

Praetorians with 1 attack really strike me as being worthless.

They would have been awesome if one of the following were true

1. Invun save
2. 2 attacks
3. Higher Init (4 would have been good) even have fluff justification for this - they never went to sleep
4. You could attach a lord/cryptek to them without slowing them to foot speed.
5. 12 inch range with rods.
6. Half the cost they are now.

As it is now, they will get their heads pounded in by a marine jump squad. Shame, the models are awesome.

If there was ever an army that you'd think of when you heard the words "slow and purposeful" or "relentless", it would be necrons. It feels really odd to me that it's missing.

I always thought of immortals and destroyers epitomizing that aspect of their tactics. Powerful mobile shooting lines shifting like a tide in and out of a solid but flexible core. combined with iconic units like scarabs, monoliths and lords, your fragile but flexible core benefited from a lot of blanket utility.

Now it seems like the idea is to shore up the problems with expensive little tricks that offer very little usefulness besides the unit they were bought for, and beyond the obvious usage.

This army could be super bad ass and I'm just looking at it the wrong way. I have to say the new scarabs, tomb spiders and Crypt walkers really have peaked my interest.

I guess I'm just creeped out by how conditional things are, and how much they cost. troop costs went down, but everything else feels a little sketchy. It's like we bought a lot of hamburger on sale and realized how expensive buns are comparatively...

darkslife wrote:Praetorians with 1 attack really strike me as being worthless.

They would have been awesome if one of the following were true

1. Invun save
2. 2 attacks
3. Higher Init (4 would have been good) even have fluff justification for this - they never went to sleep
4. You could attach a lord/cryptek to them without slowing them to foot speed.
5. 12 inch range with rods.
6. Half the cost they are now.

As it is now, they will get their heads pounded in by a marine jump squad. Shame, the models are awesome.

you can take destroyer lords with them they are IC if i recall and i think the rods are thr better weapon asthey seem to be a balanced anti infantry in assault and shooting plus the lord adds the 4+ RP and more woundd +attacks

Got my stuff from GW today. Just finished the fluff part of the codex and I'm really loving the new directions. I have to say I fell for the GW sales strategy as I bought a Cryptek on impulse whilst picking my order up, shame on my weakness!

darkslife wrote:Stormlord's night fighting is NOT permanently cancelled by the orb.

The current debate lies in does the stormlord get lightning strikes if you orb your shooting phase.

Its extremely grey, with the general consensus being no, but that MIGHT just be because it would make stormlord + overlord for 2 courts and 2 orbs mandatory in any tournies.

There's nothing grey about it, Imotekh's rules say that night fighting brought on by a solar pulse does not induce his lightning strikes. It literally can't be more clear-cut in the book.

Kevin949 wrote:

darkslife wrote:Stormlord's night fighting is NOT permanently cancelled by the orb.

The current debate lies in does the stormlord get lightning strikes if you orb your shooting phase.

Its extremely grey, with the general consensus being no, but that MIGHT just be because it would make stormlord + overlord for 2 courts and 2 orbs mandatory in any tournies.

There's nothing grey about it, Imotekh's rules say that night fighting brought on by a solar pulse does not induce his lightning strikes. It literally can't be more clear-cut in the book.

Ok, that's not what we are talking about Here Kevin.

We're talking about the using solar Pulses in OUR turn Cancelling out his Night fighting Rules, which there is nothing to indicate that it does. The Solar Pulse says it only suspends night fighting for the current turn, resuming it at the end. The Stormlords Night fighting rules, say nothing about this canceling them. The only thing it says is if he fails to make the roll, then his rules are suspended.