ImAGeek wrote:
I think Chaos Dwarfs are almost definitely coming, and now at least they’re more likely to be their own thing rather than a handful of units in the Slaves to Darkness book.

I also think that CD will get their own book rather than be a one/few unit/s in other book.

 Shadow Walker wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
I think Chaos Dwarfs are almost definitely coming, and now at least they’re more likely to be their own thing rather than a handful of units in the Slaves to Darkness book.

I also think that CD will get their own book rather than be a one/few unit/s in other book.

Also agree, and with this Horns of Hashut warband seeming to be human and not duardin (at least in keywords) that perhaps humans have replaced the Chorfs traditional WHFB fodder role of Hobgoblins and O&G slaves. Would make for more willing fodder, being that they are believers in Hashut rather then pressed into service.

The Entire Nighthaunt Tome has leaked and made it into the wilds.


Not sure what happened ag GW last Friday, this is a crazy amount of leaks.

I think Hashut will be an equal opportunity enslaver of souls, valuing chorf and human souls alike.

Or they're just repurposing Hashut into a human warband, calling it a day, and not doing chaos dwarfs at all.

 Sasori wrote:
The Entire Nighthaunt Tome has leaked and made it into the wilds.


Not sure what happened ag GW last Friday, this is a crazy amount of leaks.

Maybe somebody rage quit and just unleashed the vault of rules before they left, basically went "NDA DEEZ NUTS" and mic dropped.

Voss wrote:
Or they're just repurposing Hashut into a human warband, calling it a day, and not doing chaos dwarfs at all.

They have just announced that Space Dwarfs are back, and fans are singing from joy aka money will flow a river. I bet that they have already thought to repeat the same move for AoS.

So the prince has 10 bravery, 5 attacks, d2, rend2, reach 2. Only 3 less than the Kraken Eater...logic behind this? AoS logic, I guess...

Otherwordly power on a small creature is nearly a match for a big huge stompy man?

 nels1031 wrote:

 Shadow Walker wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
I think Chaos Dwarfs are almost definitely coming, and now at least they’re more likely to be their own thing rather than a handful of units in the Slaves to Darkness book.

I also think that CD will get their own book rather than be a one/few unit/s in other book.

Also agree, and with this Horns of Hashut warband seeming to be human and not duardin (at least in keywords) that perhaps humans have replaced the Chorfs traditional WHFB fodder role of Hobgoblins and O&G slaves. Would make for more willing fodder, being that they are believers in Hashut rather then pressed into service.

Hobgoblins still have ties to Chaos Dwarves in the background in the Orruk book so I could see them turning up in a Chaos Dwarf book still if we do get one.

I might see it as a way to differentiate the AoS Chorfs to the Fantasy Chorfs. I’m actually expecting the Furnace Kings to look different from the Dawi Zharr.

Yeah, the amount of leaks recently is patently absurd. Either they've had a rebellion amongst their playtesters and content creators getting preview materials or something has gone wrong internally.

This is just how they're rolling out the "free digital rules" paradigm. Got to ease in to it, don't want to shock the playerbase.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Yeah, the amount of leaks recently is patently absurd. Either they've had a rebellion amongst their playtesters and content creators getting preview materials or something has gone wrong internally.

Maybe someone is sick of their gak and is frustrated by the fact they have everything ready for relase but are holding it up for 6+ months.

They always have stuff ready for release waiting turn. This been decades so. Why people keeg thinking gw does something fiom zero to release# in weeks...

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Yeah, the amount of leaks recently is patently absurd. Either they've had a rebellion amongst their playtesters and content creators getting preview materials or something has gone wrong internally.

Maybe someone is sick of their gak and is frustrated by the fact they have everything ready for relase but are holding it up for 6+ months.

GW are still releasing at solid rate, its not like they aren't releasing anything.

I figure its lower level staff causing problems. Lets not forget that a month or so ago it seems that someone in the warehouse stole all (or a big order of) the Eldar Collectable coins and foregeworld models and more and, far as I can tell, their Ebay store is still going and hasn't been shut down or anything and we've not heard any backlash from that.



Thing is it only takes a tiny number of people to cause problems

chaos0xomega wrote:
Yeah, the amount of leaks recently is patently absurd. Either they've had a rebellion amongst their playtesters and content creators getting preview materials or something has gone wrong internally.

Not all that familiar with the inner workings of playtest or content creators, but it seems awfully early for them to have a finished product in hand. I'd wager this is someone in the production line.

 Overread wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Yeah, the amount of leaks recently is patently absurd. Either they've had a rebellion amongst their playtesters and content creators getting preview materials or something has gone wrong internally.

Maybe someone is sick of their gak and is frustrated by the fact they have everything ready for relase but are holding it up for 6+ months.

GW are still releasing at solid rate, its not like they aren't releasing anything.

I figure its lower level staff causing problems. Lets not forget that a month or so ago it seems that someone in the warehouse stole all (or a big order of) the Eldar Collectable coins and foregeworld models and more and, far as I can tell, their Ebay store is still going and hasn't been shut down or anything and we've not heard any backlash from that.


Thing is it only takes a tiny number of people to cause problems

How would lower level staff get their hands on the finished production version of something that's not supposed to be anywhere close to relase for half a year?

 nels1031 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Yeah, the amount of leaks recently is patently absurd. Either they've had a rebellion amongst their playtesters and content creators getting preview materials or something has gone wrong internally.

Not all that familiar with the inner workings of playtest or content creators, but it seems awfully early for them to have a finished product in hand. I'd wager this is someone in the production line.

You'd be surprised. Playtesters don't seem to generally get things all that far in advance, but content creators sometimes get things months ahead of schedule, and in some cases years in advance (as was the case with a contract painter who revealed they had painted one of the recently previewed minis over 2 years prior).

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Yeah, the amount of leaks recently is patently absurd. Either they've had a rebellion amongst their playtesters and content creators getting preview materials or something has gone wrong internally.

Maybe someone is sick of their gak and is frustrated by the fact they have everything ready for relase but are holding it up for 6+ months.

GW are still releasing at solid rate, its not like they aren't releasing anything.

I figure its lower level staff causing problems. Lets not forget that a month or so ago it seems that someone in the warehouse stole all (or a big order of) the Eldar Collectable coins and foregeworld models and more and, far as I can tell, their Ebay store is still going and hasn't been shut down or anything and we've not heard any backlash from that.


Thing is it only takes a tiny number of people to cause problems

How would lower level staff get their hands on the finished production version of something that's not supposed to be anywhere close to relase for half a year?

Product prototypes are marketing samples are done months ahead of release... but you're talking maybe a few dozen copies of something at most.

A bit bummed that the Horns of Hashut aren't Chaos Dwarves, but......I love their aesthetic and really like them regardless. Hopefully the Tarantulos Brood will get an individual release soon, because I'd love to add them along with the Horns to my Warcry collection.

Playtest stuff wouldn't be a fully finished product... because you wouldn't be able to change it.

Cover looks like it's from one of those pre-release boxes with the exclusive covers. Might be the actual box is an Autumn release, but the standalones are Winter.

That's still a good ways ahead of time mind you, but less weird than 5-6 months.

 Sabotage! wrote:
A bit bummed that the Horns of Hashut aren't Chaos Dwarves, but......I love their aesthetic and really like them regardless. Hopefully the Tarantulos Brood will get an individual release soon, because I'd love to add them along with the Horns to my Warcry collection.

We don’t know what the warband has fully. Like iron golem have a dwarf, splinter fangs have an aelf, etc

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Playtest stuff wouldn't be a fully finished product... because you wouldn't be able to change it.

I thought the playtesters received pre-release finished copies as part of their "compensation"?

 GaroRobe wrote:

 Sabotage! wrote:
A bit bummed that the Horns of Hashut aren't Chaos Dwarves, but......I love their aesthetic and really like them regardless. Hopefully the Tarantulos Brood will get an individual release soon, because I'd love to add them along with the Horns to my Warcry collection.

We don’t know what the warband has fully. Like iron golem have a dwarf, splinter fangs have an aelf, etc

Great point, I do love the diversity in the Warcry bands.

Looks like DoK becomes the first army to change reinforcement rules there's a clipped image from the book (assuming it's real) that shows Draichi Ganeth can have 1 reinforced or double reinforced unit of Witch Aelves in addition to the other reinforced units it can include.

Very happy to see that unit of Ogroids just as well the book is over 6 months away it's going to be an expensive release!

I've long felt that the reinforcement rules are a very harsh system.

I like the idea of making infantry blocks less attractive as the best solution to every problem. But GW went overboard, taking away the point saving for full infantry blocks (good thing) but then doubling down by harshly limiting you. Considering you can only have 2 full infantry blocks at 2K points and EVERY other unit must be minimum strength thereafter is a REALLY big change in how the game works.

It does make medium strength units and elites work better, I have to say that. Because now they have a slot in the army that isn't directly and always competing with infantry blocks.

But I still feel that it was harsh.



I'd fully expect some armies to have new methods - heck I'd wager Skaven could even ignore it for units like Clan rats which are at their very core designed to be worthless swarmers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Yeah, the amount of leaks recently is patently absurd. Either they've had a rebellion amongst their playtesters and content creators getting preview materials or something has gone wrong internally.

Maybe someone is sick of their gak and is frustrated by the fact they have everything ready for relase but are holding it up for 6+ months.

GW are still releasing at solid rate, its not like they aren't releasing anything.

I figure its lower level staff causing problems. Lets not forget that a month or so ago it seems that someone in the warehouse stole all (or a big order of) the Eldar Collectable coins and foregeworld models and more and, far as I can tell, their Ebay store is still going and hasn't been shut down or anything and we've not heard any backlash from that.


Thing is it only takes a tiny number of people to cause problems

How would lower level staff get their hands on the finished production version of something that's not supposed to be anywhere close to relase for half a year?

Well its GW not the military. Sure they have a very compartmentalised system, but I'm sure there are weak points within it.

Also because I'd expect higher level staff to not want to risk their jobs as much being as this is a super niche industry and at the higher levels I'm fairly sure GW is probably going to pay you the best for your skill set. Or at least have a position for your skill set in a market where many other firms are tiny handfuls of staff in key roles.

Lower level staff might well feel less committed or might not even really be in the miniature skill tree. Eg pickers/packers/cleaning/basic office staff might well be doing your basic jobs that you get at any number of firms and their skills are not tied to miniature wargaming.



It's just a gut feeling, esp as there has been a LOT spoilt super early. If a higher level staffer did it I'd kind of expect there to be far less volume of leak if there were a leak at all.

Funnily enough only army i run into issues is with cos. 4 reinforced units been plenty. I run out of points. You still need plenty of units(

 Overread wrote:
I've long felt that the reinforcement rules are a very harsh system.

I like the idea of making infantry blocks less attractive as the best solution to every problem. But GW went overboard, taking away the point saving for full infantry blocks (good thing) but then doubling down by harshly limiting you. Considering you can only have 2 full infantry blocks at 2K points and EVERY other unit must be minimum strength thereafter is a REALLY big change in how the game works.

It does make medium strength units and elites work better, I have to say that. Because now they have a slot in the army that isn't directly and always competing with infantry blocks.

But I still feel that it was harsh.



I'd fully expect some armies to have new methods - heck I'd wager Skaven could even ignore it for units like Clan rats which are at their very core designed to be worthless swarmers.

Honestly the reinforcement system is the worst part of AoS3, it basically just makes MSU the default way to play, which is something I've always found to be bland and boring. I preferred the old system which encouraged fielding larger units.

Same, my group basically dropped AoS because of that.

I appreciate GW trying to diversify the game and get rid of big infantry being the only viable option - but yeah like most things GW tries to fix they went just a bit too extreme.

Not only that but because GW only uses 4 divisions it hits everything. I could have seen it working well if it were limited to say just one or two types of unit. But yeah its really strange to have a wargame where you can only have a limited number of full units and everything else must be minimum strength.



That and the double turn are two things I wish GW would address. Reinforcements should be changed or scrapped for something else; double turn retired to casual play only and removed from matched.

I'd also welcome them breaking up "Troops" into more divisions. Cavalry should certainly be its own block with its own rules (and cavalry-like models for those armies that might use snakes or beasts in the same role etc...).

And freaking heck releasing some artillery for most factions. For a game with only 4 divisions its crazy that most armies only have models for 3

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 GaroRobe wrote:
But but how could you possibly know that he was blessed with immortality otherwise????

Eternus, the Eternal Blade of the First Prince, armed with the Glaive of Unending, the Everlasting Flail, and riding his horrific Daemonic Steed, Immortia!

I swear to god, I scrolled back up just to make sure those weren't the actual weapon or steed names.

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Overread wrote:
I've long felt that the reinforcement rules are a very harsh system.

I like the idea of making infantry blocks less attractive as the best solution to every problem. But GW went overboard, taking away the point saving for full infantry blocks (good thing) but then doubling down by harshly limiting you. Considering you can only have 2 full infantry blocks at 2K points and EVERY other unit must be minimum strength thereafter is a REALLY big change in how the game works.

It does make medium strength units and elites work better, I have to say that. Because now they have a slot in the army that isn't directly and always competing with infantry blocks.

But I still feel that it was harsh.



I'd fully expect some armies to have new methods - heck I'd wager Skaven could even ignore it for units like Clan rats which are at their very core designed to be worthless swarmers.

Honestly the reinforcement system is the worst part of AoS3, it basically just makes MSU the default way to play, which is something I've always found to be bland and boring. I preferred the old system which encouraged fielding larger units.

The weird thing is the coherency rules basically killed blocks of infantry by itself. Reinforcement just seemed mean.

It’s worth noting as well that the other mixed race warband warscrolls have identical keywords to the HoHs. I’m not expecting hobgrots, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there are duardin or even a slave ogor

ERJAK wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Overread wrote:
I've long felt that the reinforcement rules are a very harsh system.

I like the idea of making infantry blocks less attractive as the best solution to every problem. But GW went overboard, taking away the point saving for full infantry blocks (good thing) but then doubling down by harshly limiting you. Considering you can only have 2 full infantry blocks at 2K points and EVERY other unit must be minimum strength thereafter is a REALLY big change in how the game works.

It does make medium strength units and elites work better, I have to say that. Because now they have a slot in the army that isn't directly and always competing with infantry blocks.

But I still feel that it was harsh.



I'd fully expect some armies to have new methods - heck I'd wager Skaven could even ignore it for units like Clan rats which are at their very core designed to be worthless swarmers.

Honestly the reinforcement system is the worst part of AoS3, it basically just makes MSU the default way to play, which is something I've always found to be bland and boring. I preferred the old system which encouraged fielding larger units.

The weird thing is the coherency rules basically killed blocks of infantry by itself. Reinforcement just seemed mean.

It's classic GW to identify a problem and then go so extreme in the resolution that it becomes a new problem of its own.
But they do this all the time in general. It's the same as how they latched onto the idea of units doing mortal wounds, started small and then suddenly every other unit is doing mortal wound damage from some armies.

It's the wide pendulum swing of GW balance and rules writing that can cause frustration.

I literally haven't closed Eternus' warscroll since it leaked. It really is just everything I like in a named character. Simple, easy to use, with a fun gimmick.

I bet he ends up costing 400 points, and belakor 700. Just to spit in my mouth.

 His Master's Voice wrote:
Those are some damn tall Chaos Dwarves.

They just live in the Vampire Lands, so it's all relative.

 GaroRobe wrote:
It’s worth noting as well that the other mixed race warband warscrolls have identical keywords to the HoHs. I’m not expecting hobgrots, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there are duardin or even a slave ogor

Also the lore text for HoH talks about how they are the vanguard that marches ahead of the greater armies of Hashut. Which sounds like an extranarrative nudge that we might be getting a proper Chaos Dwarf army in the near-ish future (similar to Squats appearing in Necromunda before the main LoV).

ERJAK wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Overread wrote:
I've long felt that the reinforcement rules are a very harsh system.

I like the idea of making infantry blocks less attractive as the best solution to every problem. But GW went overboard, taking away the point saving for full infantry blocks (good thing) but then doubling down by harshly limiting you. Considering you can only have 2 full infantry blocks at 2K points and EVERY other unit must be minimum strength thereafter is a REALLY big change in how the game works.

It does make medium strength units and elites work better, I have to say that. Because now they have a slot in the army that isn't directly and always competing with infantry blocks.

But I still feel that it was harsh.



I'd fully expect some armies to have new methods - heck I'd wager Skaven could even ignore it for units like Clan rats which are at their very core designed to be worthless swarmers.

Honestly the reinforcement system is the worst part of AoS3, it basically just makes MSU the default way to play, which is something I've always found to be bland and boring. I preferred the old system which encouraged fielding larger units.

The weird thing is the coherency rules basically killed blocks of infantry by itself. Reinforcement just seemed mean.

Yep, there were a number of changes that made big units less desirable without specifically or explicitly targeting them, but they coupled those "soft nerfs" with an unnecessary and explicitly targeted rule for good measure. GW has always taken a "belt and suspenders" approach, i.e. they use a stick AND a carrot instead of one or the other, with just about everything.

 Jack Flask wrote:

 GaroRobe wrote:
It’s worth noting as well that the other mixed race warband warscrolls have identical keywords to the HoHs. I’m not expecting hobgrots, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there are duardin or even a slave ogor

Also the lore text for HoH talks about how they are the vanguard that marches ahead of the greater armies of Hashut. Which sounds like an extranarrative nudge that we might be getting a proper Chaos Dwarf army in the near-ish future (similar to Squats appearing in Necromunda before the main LoV).

It's been confirmed in all but name since the 3rd edition launch.

I’d laugh if when we see that model in full it is still just dwarf sized.
And maybe his feet are just cut off and the size works out.

I’m fine with a mix but to be honest would have preferred just chaos dwarfs..

Honestly, Chaos Dwarfs seem to be more fleshed out than ever compared to AOS. Even with the Leigon of Azgorh(?) models from FW, we really only got two infantry units, some monsters, and vehicles.

So far in AOS, we have:
*Hobgrots
*Human worshippers

And not a single Hashut Dwarf. The army sounds like it could be very diverse

 GaroRobe wrote:
Honestly, Chaos Dwarfs seem to be more fleshed out than ever compared to AOS. Even with the Leigon of Azgorh(?) models from FW, we really only got two infantry units, some monsters, and vehicles.

So far in AOS, we have:
*Hobgrots
*Human worshippers

And not a single Hashut Dwarf. The army sounds like it could be very diverse

Not going to lie a "Legions of Hashut" army with Humans looking like the Horns of Hashut minis, Hobgrots, and Chaos Dwarves would probably get me to start playing AoS.

I'm beginning to get VERY worried about the complete lack of leaks about the skaven...

Considering the massive Slaves ot Darkness leak chances are GW has likely sent out a staff memo reminding staff that leaks can result in jobloss and punishments and stuff.

 Overread wrote:
I appreciate GW trying to diversify the game and get rid of big infantry being the only viable option - but yeah like most things GW tries to fix they went just a bit too extreme.

Not only that but because GW only uses 4 divisions it hits everything. I could have seen it working well if it were limited to say just one or two types of unit. But yeah its really strange to have a wargame where you can only have a limited number of full units and everything else must be minimum strength.



That and the double turn are two things I wish GW would address. Reinforcements should be changed or scrapped for something else; double turn retired to casual play only and removed from matched.

I'd also welcome them breaking up "Troops" into more divisions. Cavalry should certainly be its own block with its own rules (and cavalry-like models for those armies that might use snakes or beasts in the same role etc...).

And freaking heck releasing some artillery for most factions. For a game with only 4 divisions its crazy that most armies only have models for 3

I would spend so much money on StD if they changed up the base rules enough. The new chosen are just so awesome looking. Then again I may just wait for the return of the old world.

 Overread wrote:
Considering the massive Slaves ot Darkness leak chances are GW has likely sent out a staff memo reminding staff that leaks can result in jobloss and punishments and stuff.

I can tell you that I was at my local Warhammer Store this weekend, and for the first time since I began going there, when I mentioned the leaks, the Manager got really....well *mean* with me about it. He was quite miffed. I don't know that it means much of anything, but it was very surprising.

It's probably because every time something like that happens, everyone gets tarred with a brush by management.

Plus if he really likes GW and the game chances are he's just seen another nail in managers learning of any pre-release info or anything. You know those small perks of working for a firm you're keen on and such.



But yeah whilst GW in public doesn't attack leaks, they are certainly taking steps in the background to deal with them. Fair's fair to them too its not like the Kirby days where we got nothing - we typically have 3 months or so of a release window that we know.

 Overread wrote:
It's probably because every time something like that happens, everyone gets tarred with a brush by management.

Plus if he really likes GW and the game chances are he's just seen another nail in managers learning of any pre-release info or anything. You know those small perks of working for a firm you're keen on and such.



But yeah whilst GW in public doesn't attack leaks, they are certainly taking steps in the background to deal with them. Fair's fair to them too its not like the Kirby days where we got nothing - we typically have 3 months or so of a release window that we know.

For sure. I feel bad for the folks who are responsible for showing off all our toys. When this stuff happens, especially within a week of a big event, it must really be demoralizing.

True! Esp when he's likely getting a LOT of chat at the store about the Chaos stuff and not only is he likely not allowed, he likely didn't even know anything about it. Plus he's now got to try and get people excited in stuff for Warhammerfest when the Chaos Battletome wasn't going to be on the radar for months.

It's kind of a shame since the leaks have me excited about AOS despite... really not liking 3.0 at all.

 Overread wrote:
True! Esp when he's likely getting a LOT of chat at the store about the Chaos stuff and not only is he likely not allowed, he likely didn't even know anything about it. Plus he's now got to try and get people excited in stuff for Warhammerfest when the Chaos Battletome wasn't going to be on the radar for months.

Well, I would say fingers crossed the re-arrange the release order then - the sooner that chaos release happens the better IMO.

I really like the Chosen.

And 5 in plastic solves a lot of problems for me, as I wanted some for Warhammer Quest, but the current metal ones aren't great for that.

I can build three for Quest, a Champion as a mini-boss, and then something special for the fifth one; even convert him to 40k.

Carlovonsexron wrote:

 Overread wrote:
True! Esp when he's likely getting a LOT of chat at the store about the Chaos stuff and not only is he likely not allowed, he likely didn't even know anything about it. Plus he's now got to try and get people excited in stuff for Warhammerfest when the Chaos Battletome wasn't going to be on the radar for months.

Well, I would say fingers crossed the re-arrange the release order then - the sooner that chaos release happens the better IMO.

You think gw loves wasting money? Since doing such reorder would cost money if even possible.

Carlovonsexron wrote:

 Overread wrote:
True! Esp when he's likely getting a LOT of chat at the store about the Chaos stuff and not only is he likely not allowed, he likely didn't even know anything about it. Plus he's now got to try and get people excited in stuff for Warhammerfest when the Chaos Battletome wasn't going to be on the radar for months.

Well, I would say fingers crossed the re-arrange the release order then - the sooner that chaos release happens the better IMO.

Given the roadmap skeleton in the Daemon Prince reveal on WHC confirmed the book will be coming out this winter, I doubt it, somehow.

GW can't just take a book slated for winter and release it earlier. Sure the book might be done, but the boxes, the mass production of plastic and components, the production and packing and shipping etc.... You are talking several months just for them to take currently designed assets and order the boxes and print material from China/overseas. And that's if they decided to do it right now.


Plus all that material has to be paid for and takes up shipping space, so that means whatever is coming in a few months time originally would have to be moved. So suddenly a bunch of orders and paid and signed off material has to be dropped, changed, moved around and adjusted.


All that takes time, money, has the risk of confusion where some components perhaps get printed when they aren't meant too and vis versa. It also means all the marketing material GW has prepped has to be changed.




Basically is a massive undertaking. Yes the book is done, but GW don't just order stuff and then sit on it; they don't have the vast warehousing space. At best perhaps they've got the paper stock from overseas (which at least would take up less space when in packing shipments and squashed down rahter than inflated up when full of models). Even if they've got it you're talking a huge length of time to pack everything and then distribute.

 Overread wrote:
GW can't just take a book slated for winter and release it earlier.

If they have the stock they can, but we don't know that.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Overread wrote:
GW can't just take a book slated for winter and release it earlier.

If they have the stock they can, but we don't know that.

I'd be honestly shocked if GW had all the stock for a winter release right now.
Like I said they could potentially have the book and cardstock printed and in warehouse; but taking up far less room because its got nothing inside the cardstock - ergo its flat boxes.

It might be more likely that its a master or limited print run of the books done for quality control purposes or the like. We don't even know the source of the leak itself and it could have come from the factory itself or any part of the whole chain of distribution and information .

Stock and logistics aren't the half of it. Bookkeeping, for starters, is a foremost concern. You don't just dump Q3 releases into the market during Q2 for whatever reasons you guys are rambling about (leaks, I assume).

Yes, all logic says you are right. However, GW is well known for seeing the writing on the wall, and then turning to face a different wall.

So while you're probably right, if there was any company that would cut it's nose to spite it's face GW would be it.

Gw has track record of not changing releases due to leaks

It's already been a year? since the heresy box pics leaked, and GW is in no rush to get it to market are they?

And gw didn't even change preview schedule for that.

Leaks come. Gw doesn't go haywire over it. Certainly not enough to rework production schedules over it. That just costs money.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Speaking of gw not caring about leaks nh tome got fully leaked yet gw continues own previews showing no surprlses

On the one hand I definitely view leaks because I am interested in the topic and need to stay up to date in regards to managing my local community, on the other I wish they weren't happening. The reveals have more impact when GW is able to do them with high quality images, trailers and such.

Apparently GW's new Tennessee printing house is a leaky ship. I feel like pics of finished pages/whole books have really ramped up since they changed where the books were printed.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
It's already been a year? since the heresy box pics leaked, and GW is in no rush to get it to market are they?

There may have been supply chain issues in getting all the contents together with most printing done in China for GW.
Then transport to other countries to allow simultaneous release.
Random releases are not appearing in Australia and NZ as a couple of shipping containers have been delayed 'somewhere'.
So the warhammer underworlds releases didn't appear Saturday, but the Necromunda releases is all in stock and being shipped.

Tyranids still aren't in Australia (for everyone except me! ).

I mean yeah maybe they rearrange releases.

As in, this StD release was meant to second or third release for Winter, and they bring it forward to the first.

They can move things around when they are that far out sure, but with other stuff that far out, not just say like oh shall we drop them in June?

If any movement happened, it happened before they posted that schedule and was even further away before that (as we know painted minis were completed up to two years prior for some releases, so could have been a release for next April or anything etc)

Assuming that tomorrow's AoS preview is as beefy as the 40K one was today, what are we expecting to see unveiled? What are you all hoping for?

In sticking with the Chaos theme, I'm hoping for Chaos Dwarves. Otherwise anything that get's shown off will be welcome news!

 Togusa wrote:
Assuming that tomorrow's AoS preview is as beefy as the 40K one was today, what are we expecting to see unveiled? What are you all hoping for?

In sticking with the Chaos theme, I'm hoping for Chaos Dwarves. Otherwise anything that get's shown off will be welcome news!

Skaven and Sylvaneth. The closest we might get to Chaos Dwarves is the Horns of Hashut Warcry warband on Friday.

My biggest hope is that at least one existing army in AoS gets either

1) A big range update. Eg skaven getting old metals and plastics upgraded to modern plastics

2) A big range addition for a smaller army. Eg Flesheaters, Ossiarchs, Fyreslayers etc... getting a meaty wave of models added to their line.



Right now the Ogres might be in luck as a good number of their Maneater models are listed as sold out and gone. So that could mean a new kit in plastic.

It would also be good to get more details on the new Daughters of Khaine book - I'm not expecting any new models (after the duel army pack added a leader already); but an idea on if they are going to formally do anything with the Dark Elf block of models or not would be good.


I do not expect to see a brand new army reveal for any Grand Alliance.

Obviously at least one new Sylvaneth model as we can tell from the rightmost silhouette in the preview title image. Hoping for some Slaven updates to older kits & resins though.

 Togusa wrote:
Assuming that tomorrow's AoS preview is as beefy as the 40K one was today, what are we expecting to see unveiled? What are you all hoping for?

In sticking with the Chaos theme, I'm hoping for Chaos Dwarves. Otherwise anything that get's shown off will be welcome news!

We have seen a silhouette for a Sylvaneth model. And I saw rumors elsewhere. - totally unconfirmed - of a new Deathmaster and Nightrunners for Skaven. That would all be welcome in my book.

For Skaven specifically, I would love new plastic kits for the Warlocks, Arch Warlocks, and the various weapon attachment units.

All the Warhammer Fest Reveals





















Dawnbringer Crusade

Despite the usual bitching, good reveal i'd say. Rats still need a severe redo however.

I needs those Orgroids,

dr tree octopus is pretty funky (tho i could do without the oversized head banner thing)

and those bugs are what the 40K Vespids should look like (but with lasers & stuff)

Am I really going to start a third (or fourth?) Mordheim Skaven warband because of one Skaven miniature?

I think I am.

Also, while those Ogroids are excellent, how close they are to what Minos should look like is a bit worrying. I don't want my angry cows redesigned, or possibly phased out in a future Beasts release.

I certainly love the new assassin, particularly how it looks less 'ninja' and more 'skaven' if that makes sense. No other minis makes me think there are more reveals to come, but I am prepared for the Skaven book to just get that however disappointing it would be.

Speaking of, I was excited when I saw the headline for black library heroes but those two are certainly near the bottom of what I expected or wanted. I feel like when GW (or anyone, for that matter) tries to hype up a new character as a big deal before they are a big deal it almost always falls flat.

The rest of those reveals though, awesome. Loving that the Lady of Vines is getting a mini, loving that there is a whole unit of flybug-backpack bois, and cavalry too! They look great and round off the Sylvaneth roster well. More importantly the release is mostly UNITS and not single characters! And the ogroids are sweet, good to see a return of monstrous infantry for warriors of chaos. AND the announced project to fill out regular people of the mortal realms has me more excited than anything, I am so glad GW has recognized that need and is revving up for a suitably large release to fill it.

You can play those flying units today!

 CMLR wrote:
You can play those flying units today!

Ah yes, the ripperdactyls! Hey at least GW could keep names to one word back then

Just hoping cos revamp doesn't invalidate old models completely. At least logical count as units i can live with. Ideally new units and updated versions.

Would also suck for cos to go from one of the most varied force to small selection of units.

Huh. The Ogroid banner gives very strong "krule boyz" vibes, with the angry face and little trinkets.

Maybe they stole it?

They did use to be a destruction faction. Hmm

tneva82 wrote:
Just hoping cos revamp doesn't invalidate old models completely. At least logical count as units i can live with. Ideally new units and updated versions.

Would also suck for cos to go from one of the most varied force to small selection of units.

That's assuming that this is, in reality, a "Cities of Sigmar" revamp and not "Human models" revamp.

"It’s time for that to change, as we reimagine the forces of common humanity and the Cities of Sigmar."

"Organising the fractious Free Cities is no easy task"

Sure sounds like cos.

But they could be just add some new units and update some units. If there's sword and shield humans with new look that doesn't invalidate my existing models from being still used.

What he means is if it will be actual mixed-race/faction CoS like we have now or if it will be 'Humans of Sigmar' in actuality.

Well even then as long as there's logical count as options i can live. Humans with 2 handed weapons? Phoenix guard. Super well armoured humans? Ironbeakers.

Would be pity if gw burned existing fluff for marketing reasons though

tneva82 wrote:
And gw didn't even change preview schedule for that.

Leaks come. Gw doesn't go haywire over it. Certainly not enough to rework production schedules over it. That just costs money.

Speaking of gw not caring about leaks nh tome got fully leaked yet gw continues own previews showing no surprlses

That is kinda new behavior, tho. They used to ruin their carefully planned campaigns over leaks in last few years, even revealing stuff from big events early because someone dumped a terrible blurry photo a few hours earlier instead of just waiting half a day and releasing it when it was originally planned (especially given the fact usual clowns then would whine 'nothing' was revealed at event ignoring what happened just before it)...

Revealing a preview a few days early isn't really going to mess with the release schedule at all. Heck the Slaanesh Fiend got previewed early because one sprue wound up in a consignment sent to a 3rd party for ebay selling and it went wild around the net. GW did a preview, but the kit and the duel army pack wasn't rushed forward or anything.

GW isn't going to change releases because of leaks; they will be annoyed at the loss of control over their marketing, but its not a vast disaster.
Now its true over the last 2 years or so GW has moved things around a lot, but that had nothing to do with previews or leaks and everything to do with locksdowns, corona, massive shipping disruption and more.

Given the appearance on the distant horizon of The Old World, I would expect there is a move to distance AoS from the old warhammer factions that did not entirely port over, such as Empire, to avoid too much blurring of these slowly distancing IPs' aesthetics.

 Kanluwen wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Just hoping cos revamp doesn't invalidate old models completely. At least logical count as units i can live with. Ideally new units and updated versions.

Would also suck for cos to go from one of the most varied force to small selection of units.

That's assuming that this is, in reality, a "Cities of Sigmar" revamp and not "Human models" revamp.

The barely awake presenters seemed to think it was just humans and not "other factions"

Correct. That is why I phrased my statement the way I did.

There was a bit of confusion it seemed because Adam read a question from the chat that dealt with someone asking "will there be other races" or something to that extent.

I don't have much hope for Cities of Sigmar as a concept. It was a cool thing initially but it became abundantly clear that it was just a temporary thing early on. It wasn't until Broken Realms: Morathi and Teclis with their unique cities that I feel we really got something matching the concepts by locking out certain things and letting you bring in a tertiary faction.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Given the appearance on the distant horizon of The Old World, I would expect there is a move to distance AoS from the old warhammer factions that did not entirely port over, such as Empire, to avoid too much blurring of these slowly distancing IPs' aesthetics.

Except the concept sketches of the bits and bobs looked 100% Empire. At least to me, and a couple other people have said the same.
So if this is their attempt at distancing, they're doing it wrong.

Voss wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Given the appearance on the distant horizon of The Old World, I would expect there is a move to distance AoS from the old warhammer factions that did not entirely port over, such as Empire, to avoid too much blurring of these slowly distancing IPs' aesthetics.

Except the concept sketches of the bits and bobs looked 100% Empire. At least to me, and a couple other people have said the same.
So if this is their attempt at distancing, they're doing it wrong.

Yeah, the little scene with Snikch was also distinctly old world in style. If there is any intent of altering the relation between the two IPs, it does look more like a merger at this point.

The Cantauron Marshall (or however its spelled) was previewed today - Glorious.

Horns of Hashut not Chaos Dwarves (at all, not even one), but evidently are associated with them, more hints that they are coming soon.

Image of the pitched battle points for the Sylvaneth vs Skaven box doing the rounds.

Echoes of Doom seems to be the box sets name.

Sylvaneth get
Lady of the Vines
Spirit of Durthu
3 Kurnoth Hunters
5 Gossamid Archers

Skaven get
Deathmaster
20 Clan rats
10 Stormvermin
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell

Skaven are at a near 500 point disadvantage!

 DaveC wrote:
Image of the pitched battle points for the Sylvaneth vs Skaven box doing the rounds

Sylvaneth get
Lady of the Vines
Spirit of Durthu
3 Kurnoth Hunters
5 Gossamid Archers

Skaven get
Death master
20 Clan rats
10 Stormvermin
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell

Ooooh yes please! Nice find. Shame about the clan rats but it wouldn't GW if there wasn't a dud kit in there somewhere...

 DaveC wrote:
Image of the pitched battle points for the Sylvaneth vs Skaven box doing the rounds

Sylvaneth get
Lady of the Vines
Spirit of Durthu
3 Kurnoth Hunters
5 Gossamid Archers

Skaven get
Deathmaster
20 Clan rats
10 Stormvermin
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell

Skaven are at a near 500 point disadvantage!

Such a solid box for Sylvaneth. Only one new sculpt for skaven will hurt a lot of fans

A solid few days of reviews, imo

As someone who loves Chaos, the 40K cultists, mutants and big mutant spawn cultists will find a place in my armies. Only a few have excess 40K paraphernalia to remove or just sell off if its too much.

Great to see Sylvaneth get some love. Never had an interest in them before, but their new stuff is pretty wild. Cool to see Lady of Vines back in action. A pivotal character in the Realmgate Wars. Gotta admit to being jealous though, I wish FS and IDK got that level of love for their new book release. But thats the way the cookie crumbles.

The Black Library characters are both pretty cool. I think the Vampire is going to get a lot of love from painters.

New Hashut warband looks neat, but thematically seems to butt heads with 2 previous warbands. The Iron Golems + Scions of the Flame. A new season/edition of Warcry in a forested area might bring some wild possibilities for terrain.

Surprised more Chaos stuff wasn’t shown, weird to just reveal the Ogroids but not the rest of the leaked stuff. Daemon Prince will be an auto purchase for me, probably more then 1. Looks like a wild kit.

The possibility of new human mini’s for Order is intriguing, but won’t excite me until I see finished product.

I don’t know why they didn’t just show the box in the reveal.

Are there more leaks about CSM? Maybe about the bikers? I'm starting to think first wave will come next week (I'm no leaker, it just makes sense if HH starts on july)

 ImAGeek wrote:
I don’t know why they didn’t just show the box in the reveal.

Because GW previews are regular previews in slow motion.

How many times must I say this?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
I don’t know why they didn’t just show the box in the reveal.

Because GW previews are regular previews in slow motion.

How many times must I say this?

Okay let me rephrase. I know why they didn’t just show the box in the preview, and it’s incredibly irritating.

Ugh the flying sylvaneth unit another "better have shooty unit or you won't easily deal with these" ala foxes. Not quite as bad as foxes as cost cp to move to safety and can fail on 1 but not fan of units so impervious to melee units.

Well at least spamming them isn't as irritating as foxes due to 1 ca/phase rule

Garrac wrote:
Are there more leaks about CSM? Maybe about the bikers? I'm starting to think first wave will come next week (I'm no leaker, it just makes sense if HH starts on july)

Methinks you're in the wrong thread, chief.

Yep. Sorry, Im writing from a mobile and I literally couldn't see the title

BTW, as a skaven player, Im deeeeeeply disapointed at GW. This is dirty

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/08/sunday-preview-witch-aelves-spectral-hordes-and-the-defence-of-the-north/

Daughters of Khaine and Nighthaunts up for preorder on saturday.

Noice. New vanguards too, are they exactly the same as the fury of the deep box?

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
Noice. New vanguards too, are they exactly the same as the fury of the deep box?

Nope. They don't have the two new characters.

Frankly, the Idoneth Vanguard is trash.

I don’t like Fyreslayers anyway, but god their vanguard just looks so boring.

Both don't seem great since the Idoneth one only added an Allopex and changed the hero which doesn't seem worth the price increase and the Fyreslayers one lost the Magmadroth which won't be cheap by itself. At least there is a non-Magmadroth character inside now since none of their heroes was available from FLGs



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
Noice. New vanguards too, are they exactly the same as the fury of the deep box?

Nope. They don't have the two new characters.

Frankly, the Idoneth Vanguard is trash.

Also Eels instead of the Namarti Reavers for Idoneth and switched 5 Hearthguard for another 10 Vulkites so basically completely different

 ImAGeek wrote:
I don’t like Fyreslayers anyway, but god their vanguard just looks so boring.

It's a problem with their army in general. They need a big wave of new models. Sadly its the case that many armies in AoS need this same update; either to add variety and/or to replace older sculpts that no longer stand up to the modern quality GW can achieve (or are still in metal/finecast)

Heard rumour that morathi ca is still in book. If true that's bit surprising seeing how warscroll specific warscrolls are almost extinct in aos3 books. Also annoying as double shoot/fight shouldn't be easy CA. And annoying as increases odds book is still morathi+bow snakes.

Hopefully bogus rumour

 DaveC wrote:
Image of the pitched battle points for the Sylvaneth vs Skaven box doing the rounds.

Echoes of Doom seems to be the box sets name.

Sylvaneth get
Lady of the Vines
Spirit of Durthu
3 Kurnoth Hunters
5 Gossamid Archers

Skaven get
Deathmaster
20 Clan rats
10 Stormvermin
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell

Skaven are at a near 500 point disadvantage!

Holy gak I hope this box is real.

Which part of the box are you more interested in, Chaos?

Both halves. Already have plenty of Sylvaneth but i could use some more treelords and hunters + the new minis are nice.

I wish there was more on the skaven side if the point disparity is really that big, but I've been wanting to get into ratmen for a while and picking up 2 boxes seems like a good starting point for the army once you factor in the various odds and ends I've accumulated for them over the years (mainly stormfiends, warp lightning cannons and doom wheels).

Seen very legit looking pitched battle profile and box content pics.

Clanrats get d3 models back in battleshock, stormvermin got 4+ bodyguard(+2 with verminus), gained +1 for to hit but lost point of reach and both got save characteristic increase instead of shield rule.

The only thing I really would not want is another Treeman from that box... but shoot, why not get a 4th one.

I'm sure their next battletome is going to include a build where you can take them as battleline, so why not have 4 or 5 lol

Honestly, I was surprised to not see Kurnoth Hunters as Battleline if General is a Free Spirit or something like that.

Photos of the Hedonites of Slaanesh White Dwarf update are floating around on social media. Nothing that seems to be a breakthough and puts them on a different level, as a good portion of their issues seemed tied to points cost.

Also, bought the Thondian Strongpoint today. Putting together the Ghur Noodle is a PITA. Got it in 3 subassemblies currently for painting, not looking forward to it.

Megadroth Remains is gonna be a breeze to paint though.

I dunno, army wide 5+ ward that kicks in in what, turn 2, 3 if you aren't trying very hard? Is gonna be pretty good.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Honestly, I was surprised to not see Kurnoth Hunters as Battleline if General is a Free Spirit or something like that.

New style tied more to subfaction. Odds are such subfaction exists in book and they didn't bother with old style for short time between box and book

Prices

Battletomes Nighthaunt and DoK £32.50 €42.50 $55
Awlrach the Drowner £30 €40 $50
Craventhrone Guard £27.50 €35 $45
IDK Vanguard £80 €105 $130
Fyreslayer Vanguard £80 €105 $130
NH Dice £24 €31.50 $38
NH Cards £19 €24 $33

New Sylvaneth vs Skaven battlebox "Echoes Of Doom" due soon, first place to be able to get the Lady Of Vines, Gossamid Archers and new Skaven character.



https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/09/avenging-sylvaneth-chase-the-skaven-across-the-realms-in-echoes-of-doom/

Treelord! Love that guy! And omg he's bought his girlfriend to the party too!

I know that the skaven side is supposed to be very very underwhelming compared to the treefolk.

But is it any better if you build the plague furnace instead? Plus, with the bell of doom, don't you get a plague priest as an extra HQ?

Also, I'm trying to think about how useful a skaven assassin would be against trees.

I should've known from the base size in the reveal pictures, but Lady of Vines is larger than I thought she'd be.

 GaroRobe wrote:
I know that the skaven side is supposed to be very very underwhelming compared to the treefolk.

But is it any better if you build the plague furnace instead? Plus, with the bell of doom, don't you get a plague priest as an extra HQ?

Also, I'm trying to think about how useful a skaven assassin would be against trees.

Warp goo on weapons + tree spirits = bad day.

 GaroRobe wrote:
I know that the skaven side is supposed to be very very underwhelming compared to the treefolk.

But is it any better if you build the plague furnace instead? Plus, with the bell of doom, don't you get a plague priest as an extra HQ?

I think it worth noting that Clanrats return D3 slain models at the end of the battleshock phase, per the warscroll leaks. So if you don't gank the whole unit in one go...they'll keep coming back.

Also, I'm trying to think about how useful a skaven assassin would be against trees.

The assassin is apparently there to screw up the Grey Seer's plans...but they just coat their blades with weedkiller otherwise

The lore definitely makes the one-sidedness more justified. I wonder if the lore came first, or that's how they justified it?

 GaroRobe wrote:
The lore definitely makes the one-sidedness more justified. I wonder if the lore came first, or that's how they justified it?

It is the plague of Skaven in battle boxes--for an even fight they'd need to outnumber the other side by a huge margin which has practical issues when trying to balance two halves of the product.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 GaroRobe wrote:
I know that the skaven side is supposed to be very very underwhelming compared to the treefolk.

But is it any better if you build the plague furnace instead? Plus, with the bell of doom, don't you get a plague priest as an extra HQ?

Also, I'm trying to think about how useful a skaven assassin would be against trees.

Bell is the better go for this setup, and you would have the plague priest. Strange they don't show him.

Hnh, the only other Skaven battlebox (Island of Blood notwithstanding) that I can think of was Carrion Empire, and in that box the FEC outnumbered the Skaven (Skaven contents were 3 stormfiends, Warplock Bombardier, doomwheel, and warp lightning cannon, vs 20 crypt whatevers, 6 big chungus crypt whatevers, and abhorrent archregent).

When 1 box costs x money and gives y points and other for samn money more points it's always hard since gw tends to make sides about equal money wise(which does make splitting easier)

AoS' own janky Avatar gets some new rules!




I'm sure I'm not the first person to say that I really think they sculpted this and left it in the default T-Pose:

That's because it is meant to be a statue on top of a shrine, not a living model, but people kept using it as one so they gave it rules.

I really wish they just brought the Avatar from 40k over to AoS instead of trying to use the old statue as its own unit. I’m curious how the rules for both look (to see the disparity in their overall power)

It exists anyways and is left over if the bloodrack shrine is built, so it is essentially a free unit. It is part of another kit, so the alternative isn't a different sculpt--it's nothing at all.

Doesn't make it look any less silly...

No argument there, I'd just prefer having something to having nothing. There is no downside to it having a warscroll.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Doesn't make it look any less silly...

Why? Are you not entertained?

I mean, that's the pose. He's walking, his arms are actually pulled back, and he's vocally addressing someone. Yeah, he's been sculpted as a statue, but he's got motion and emotion going on. He's just not leaping and bouncing around like the rest of the army, but that shouldn't be an issue considering he's not a witch elf like the rest of the army.

Sure, if the model had actually been sculpted to detach from the shrine in the first place GW might have gone with a different pose, or included optional arm and torso bits to make the foot version different, but it's hardly sporting a problematic pose as it is.

 Geifer wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Doesn't make it look any less silly...

Why? Are you not entertained?

I mean, that's the pose. He's walking, his arms are actually pulled back, and he's vocally addressing someone. Yeah, he's been sculpted as a statue, but he's got motion and emotion going on. He's just not leaping and bouncing around like the rest of the army, but that shouldn't be an issue considering he's not a witch elf like the rest of the army.

Sure, if the model had actually been sculpted to detach from the shrine in the first place GW might have gone with a different pose, or included optional arm and torso bits to make the foot version different, but it's hardly sporting a problematic pose as it is.

I agree. I actually prefer him over the eldar one. Which is a shame as I was looking forward to proxying in the eldar one as an alternative.

 Geifer wrote:
Why? Are you not entertained?

Because it's a giant dude in a default T-pose, and looks silly. I don't know how much more of an explanation I can provide.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
I actually prefer him over the eldar one.

Ok well now you're being contrarian just for the sake of it.

No, not really. It actually fits in thematically too. As there's no way in hell Morathi's ego would allow her to have a statue being more impressive than herself. So no, just because people aren't jumping to agree with you, doesn't immediately make it contrarianism.

How big is the AOS Khaine? A lot smaller than the new 40K one, I presume, so it would be weird to use the latter as the former?

If Avatars of Khaine walking around are a thing in AOS, I don't see why they couldn't share the model with 40K like the daemons do, and have beefy rules to match. The model isn't super 40K-specific.

The AoS Khaine is not that tall because its designed to go on top of an already tall mobile alter.

 Crimson wrote:
How big is the AOS Khaine? A lot smaller than the new 40K one, I presume, so it would be weird to use the latter as the former?

If Avatars of Khaine walking around are a thing in AOS, I don't see why they couldn't share the model with 40K like the daemons do, and have beefy rules to match. The model isn't super 40K-specific.

Then we would need rules for 2 avatars. One on foot and one on cauldron.

Make it 3. Small and big on foot. Do we really need that many warscrolls?

Or new cauldron kit with room for big avatar and pricetag of 150 euros or so. Cauldron would be ridiculously big.

40k's Avatar has both IRL and narrative issues with AoS compatibility. In real terms there is a significant difference in the detail work--the aesthetic is very Craftworlds and distinct from DoK.

Fluff wise, it gets into what Daughters of 'Khaine' really are. Though they worship Khaine and believe they are worshipping Khaine it is Morathi who channels all the power of that worship (the iron heart her model is holding is literally Khaine's heart) and more recently has ascended to full godhood as Morathi-Khaine. In AoS Khaine's actual power as a deity has always been a lie, and it is now debatable if he even exists at all or what little was left has been subsumed into Morathi.

 Geifer wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Doesn't make it look any less silly...

Why? Are you not entertained?

I mean, that's the pose. He's walking, his arms are actually pulled back, and he's vocally addressing someone. Yeah, he's been sculpted as a statue, but he's got motion and emotion going on. He's just not leaping and bouncing around like the rest of the army, but that shouldn't be an issue considering he's not a witch elf like the rest of the army.

Sure, if the model had actually been sculpted to detach from the shrine in the first place GW might have gone with a different pose, or included optional arm and torso bits to make the foot version different, but it's hardly sporting a problematic pose as it is.

Except for the fact that its holding the stupid modern Valentine's day heart (also used on several dark elf banners), that no one who actually cuts hearts out of people would actually use on a statue to their god of murder.

Fun fact: that heart is probably (if it isn't the seed pod of an extinct plant used to prevent conception) a symbolic rendering of testicles, just upside down. Because Romans, and the temple of Aphrodite, and the need for 20th century folks to sanitize everything before its smeared all over holidays.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
40k's Avatar has both IRL and narrative issues with AoS compatibility. In real terms there is a significant difference in the detail work--the aesthetic is very Craftworlds and distinct from DoK.

Fluff wise, it gets into what Daughters of 'Khaine' really are. Though they worship Khaine and believe they are worshipping Khaine it is Morathi who channels all the power of that worship (the iron heart her model is holding is literally Khaine's heart) and more recently has ascended to full godhood as Morathi-Khaine. In AoS Khaine's actual power as a deity has always been a lie, and it is now debatable if he even exists at all or what little was left has been subsumed into Morathi.

If they were going to release a new 'Avatar of Khaine' model for DoK based on the current lore, it would be a big statue of Morathi ala the Celestine statue from the Battle Sanctum kit. Not anything like the Eldar thing.

The t-posing is future proof of sculptor incase they need to make a big expensive Avatar in the future, and substitute it with the t-pose statue would look ridiculous, little did they know in the future the t-pose avatar was used and no one cares enough to make the big expensive AoS avatar.

I'll take T-Pose over Arms Forward McShrugShoulders anyday.

Peeps taking offense over fictional elves using the same symbol to indicate a heart as we do, that's a new one.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Peeps taking offense over fictional elves using the same symbol to indicate a heart as we do, that's a new one.

And all this started 'cause I thought a T-pose model was silly.

Dok got oddly wide ally list in new book including lumineth. Guess gw ignores their own fluff

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Peeps taking offense over fictional elves using the same symbol to indicate a heart as we do, that's a new one.

And all this started 'cause I thought a T-pose model was silly.

It's alright. We learned that Daughters of Khaine like upside down testicles so much that they put them on the statue of their god. That's worth something, right?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Peeps taking offense over fictional elves using the same symbol to indicate a heart as we do, that's a new one.

And all this started 'cause I thought a T-pose model was silly.

And really it is, but that's just a result of something originally sculpted as a static monument being re-fluffed as an animate construct.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Geifer wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Peeps taking offense over fictional elves using the same symbol to indicate a heart as we do, that's a new one.

And all this started 'cause I thought a T-pose model was silly.

It's alright. We learned that Daughters of Khaine like upside down testicles so much that they put them on the statue of their god. That's worth something, right?

I for one trust some random guy on a forum to accurately know and relay historical symbology

There's picture of lumineth battletome cover with 3rd ed style top. Supposedly honest wargamer showed that.

Dunno if real and dunno where honest wargamer is supposedly have got that but if true indicates fall order book would be the last order faction without any update for 3rd ed so far.

I saw an image of it (not sure if it’s the same one) but it looks photoshopped the AoS 3 heading doesn’t line up in the top right corner but it might just be the angle.

Also the Nethermaze Shadeborn aren’t in the DoK book (no points lists on the pitched battle profiles)

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Peeps taking offense over fictional elves using the same symbol to indicate a heart as we do, that's a new one.

Deliberately mischaracterising an opinion you don’t agree with as “offence” in order to try to discredit it … sadly, that’s not a new one.

Fifteen elf battletomes and we haven't even seen a proper dark elf yet.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Peeps taking offense over fictional elves using the same symbol to indicate a heart as we do, that's a new one.

Deliberately mischaracterising an opinion you don’t agree with as “offence” in order to try to discredit it … sadly, that’s not a new one.

How would you characterise it? I just can't think of an angle in which that criticism makes sense, but I am willing to be convinced.


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JSG wrote:
Fifteen elf battletomes and we haven't even seen a proper dark elf yet.

What is your definition of 'proper dark elf'? Honest question, and I do see your point regardless.

NinthMusketeer wrote:What is your definition of 'proper dark elf'? Honest question, and I do see your point regardless.

I will restrain myself, because i don't want to cause any actual trouble or animosity, but the temptation to post ridiculous images "answering" this question (that wasn't to me at all) is terribly, terribly strong.

I dunno, some well intended humor helps to lighten the general mood around here

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Peeps taking offense over fictional elves using the same symbol to indicate a heart as we do, that's a new one.

And all this started 'cause I thought a T-pose model was silly.

And really it is, but that's just a result of something originally sculpted as a static monument being re-fluffed as an animate construct.


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 Geifer wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Peeps taking offense over fictional elves using the same symbol to indicate a heart as we do, that's a new one.

And all this started 'cause I thought a T-pose model was silly.

It's alright. We learned that Daughters of Khaine like upside down testicles so much that they put them on the statue of their god. That's worth something, right?

I for one trust some random guy on a forum to accurately know and relay historical symbology

Its not hard to do research, but by all means make an effort not to learn things today.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I dunno, some well intended humor helps to lighten the general mood around here

I would, but my google searches for "elf batman" did not return anything good

Sunday preview - Sylvaneth and Skaven clash in next weeks pre-orders

Echoes of Doom is available for pre-order next week. I don't technically collect either army, but I have Skaven and Sylvaneth leftovers from Spire of Dawn, Looncurse and Carrion Empire boxed sets and this would expand nicely on those...

jullevi wrote:
Sunday preview - Sylvaneth and Skaven clash in next weeks pre-orders

Echoes of Doom is available for pre-order next week. I don't technically collect either army, but I have Skaven and Sylvaneth leftovers from Spire of Dawn, Looncurse and Carrion Empire boxed sets and this would expand nicely on those...

Good stuff! Anyone speculate as to what the price tag on that one might be? If it's the same as the last battlebox at £115 then it's tempting enough to pick up through a third party... That said, some large and very new and shiny kits in there which leads me to believe it'll be closer to the £130 mark.

Ebay is going to be interesting no matter the outcome!

Those Clanrats look really weird to me.
Super flat.

Arena of Shades was priced at 115 GBP/150 EUR/195 USD, so I expect this to be the same.

 dan2026 wrote:
Those Clanrats look really weird to me.
Super flat.

They're the same Clanrats as the past decade+.

Voss wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Peeps taking offense over fictional elves using the same symbol to indicate a heart as we do, that's a new one.

And all this started 'cause I thought a T-pose model was silly.

And really it is, but that's just a result of something originally sculpted as a static monument being re-fluffed as an animate construct.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Geifer wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Peeps taking offense over fictional elves using the same symbol to indicate a heart as we do, that's a new one.

And all this started 'cause I thought a T-pose model was silly.

It's alright. We learned that Daughters of Khaine like upside down testicles so much that they put them on the statue of their god. That's worth something, right?

I for one trust some random guy on a forum to accurately know and relay historical symbology

Its not hard to do research, but by all means make an effort not to learn things today.

I did, actually. I just didn't feel it was relevant to come back and post that you were wrong.

I mean, Daughters of Khaine are a matriarchal society and Morathi made all male aelves weak and made to serve as a slave caste. So does them worshipping a god holding a bloody pair of gonads seem off brand to you? No?

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

JSG wrote:
Fifteen elf battletomes and we haven't even seen a proper dark elf yet.

What is your definition of 'proper dark elf'? Honest question, and I do see your point regardless.

Ones that work for Malerion not his mum.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Peeps taking offense over fictional elves using the same symbol to indicate a heart as we do, that's a new one.

Deliberately mischaracterising an opinion you don’t agree with as “offence” in order to try to discredit it … sadly, that’s not a new one.

How would you characterise it? I just can't think of an angle in which that criticism makes sense, but I am willing to be convinced.

Maybe characterise it as somebody not liking it, or not thinking it makes sense to them or thinking something else would be preferable? You know, something less histrionic that doesn’t implicitly accuse the that person’s opinion of being somehow hysterical or irrational just because you don’t agree with it.

Hm, I see 'offended' and 'hysterical' as very far apart. The former being relatively mild, the latter severe. At any rate in my view the phrases "stupid Valentine's day heart" and "the need for 20th century folks to sanitize everything before its smeared all over holidays" don't seem to come from a particularly rational angle.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

JSG wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

JSG wrote:
Fifteen elf battletomes and we haven't even seen a proper dark elf yet.

What is your definition of 'proper dark elf'? Honest question, and I do see your point regardless.

Ones that work for Malerion not his mum.

Ah, I see. I'm expecting them this edition, but not this year.

Echoes of Doom £115 €150 $190
Warcry Darkoath Savagers £35 €45 $60
Warcry Tarantulos Brood £35 €45 $60
Ravaged Lands Pit Dredgers Camp £67.50 €87.50 $112
Ravaged Lands Varanite Syphon Camp £67.50 €87.50 $112

US prices based on current GW online store pricing.

 DaveC wrote:

Darkoath Savagers £35 €45 $60
Tarantulos Brood £35 €45 $60

Nice ! Any reason they are 10€ cheaper then all the other cultists ?

Getting only 1 set instead of 2. Ie big price hike

Yep these are Warcry Warbands (10/13 minis) including cards not the AoS S2D double boxes (20/26 minis). They are the same price as the most recent Warcry specific warbands.

AoS warscrolls if anyone missed them.
Darkoath Savagers Warscroll
Tarantulos Brood Warscroll

 DreadfullyHopeful wrote:

 DaveC wrote:

Darkoath Savagers £35 €45 $60
Tarantulos Brood £35 €45 $60

Nice ! Any reason they are 10€ cheaper then all the other cultists ?

These are the Warcry versions, with the cards. Single set of sprues, not the double box without cards for AoS. Same price as the Shadowstalkers and Scions of the Flame

Ouch. Less nice then

Sweet, glad I waited to move my spare sets of warcry cultists, Ill do 40USD ea instead of the 30 I was planning

Happy for all the Nighhaunt players who stuck it out for the past 3ish(?) years, after reading Goonhammers reviews of their new battletome. Going to be some wild builds coming soon.

 nels1031 wrote:
Happy for all the Nighhaunt players who stuck it out for the past 3ish(?) years, after reading Goonhammers reviews of their new battletome. Going to be some wild builds coming soon.

It's a great book. Been loving running them since the book was leaked.

Two things i'm worried. Army wide no inspiring which can screw some armies hard(gloomspite in particular) and subfaction providing flee&charge and mw's on charge. More mw's not fan of.

Looking at the Lady of Vines warscroll, I am reminded of how much I dislike once per game abilities that activate on a 2+. It just creates a feels-bad moment when a 1 is rolled, it fails, and the cost of the ability (be it points, tactical, etc) goes to waste. It is one thing for an ability that activates on a 3+ or worse because then a certain amount of planning for failure is involved, but 2+ generally means a unit paying points for an ability to always go off and that just sucking once in a while for no gameplay benefit. It isn't like it's super fun for the opponent to see that happen (if anything, in my experience it is frustrating because I don't want to win a game simply because my opponent rolled a 1 on a once/game ability roll).

Part of this is the issue with how GW wants the game to have those kind of dice moments.

Personally I think that's ok. The problem I have is that GW tends to over-reach with a lot of abilities. So the dice failing or succeeding isn't an inconvenience its a "oh crap I'm just lost the turn/game".


It's like the double turn system, which is about the most extreme GW has ever gone with the power of dice. Again it generates this "epic moment" in the game. Which might sound cinematic and epic and such but actually isn't.

The player who wins because they got a double turn (which is almost every time if they get a double) can oft feel its a hollow victory.
Meanwhile the player who sat there doing not all that much save roll for saves and take their models off the table, is left feeling like they didn't really get a chance to play.
3.0 is a little better as there is some more to do, but its still representative of a cinematic style to game design that I really wish GW would abandon.

I don't mind abilities that work on a 2+, or 1/game ones that have a realistic chance of failure, I dislike when it is a 2+ 1/game ability; either it is a bunch of points spent, because the unit needs to be priced assuming it goes off, or it is an annoying extra roll for a small effect that doesn't warrant it. If the game didn't have tons of random factors everywhere else my opinion would be different. The practical time spent certainly adds up too, when there are dozens of such rolls over the course of the game.

Kind of the inverse but I've been trying to avoid 6+ wards in my lists for that reason; the time is adds to gameplay isn't worth the benefit.

There's two teams, I think, working on AoS rules.

1 team likes once per game 2+ abilities. They made Nighthaunt and Sylvaneth.

The other team loves to just let you have your once per game ability. They made Daughters of Khaine. Haven't seen enough of Skaven yet to know which team worked on them.

 nels1031 wrote:
Happy for all the Nighhaunt players who stuck it out for the past 3ish(?) years, after reading Goonhammers reviews of their new battletome. Going to be some wild builds coming soon.

I'm a little sad I sold mine about 8 months back, but at the same time I won't miss the spindlyness and constant breaks.

Maybe I'll come back to them again at some point, I do love me some death!

That being said, I am crossing my fingers they do wyldwoods and Sylvaneth right for once. It's one of my favorite armies, and I really want to play and enjoy it!

I hope whichever team decided that -thank goodness- frightful touch should auto wound on a 6 to hit instead of dealing mortals gets to call the shots. Seriously, mortal wounds on hit rolls are the second bane of AoS.

JSG wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

JSG wrote:
Fifteen elf battletomes and we haven't even seen a proper dark elf yet.

What is your definition of 'proper dark elf'? Honest question, and I do see your point regardless.

Ones that work for Malerion not his mum.

I'm getting this odd feeling that GW would prefer they quietly get forgotten.

But it's probably just me.

Sylvaneth article.

These verdant nexuses change their effects with the Seasons of War, providing varying benefits for armies that chose to wage war under the Aspects of Spring, Summer, Autumn, or Winter. But you’ll need to grab a copy of Battletome: Sylvaneth when it hits pre-order to find out more about that…

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I hope whichever team decided that -thank goodness- frightful touch should auto wound on a 6 to hit instead of dealing mortals gets to call the shots. Seriously, mortal wounds on hit rolls are the second bane of AoS.

So I wrote this before I read the new NH tome. I take it back. That thing seems like it was patched together by underpaid interns, and a few well written rules do not make up for the army having its soul sucked out.

Nice change on sylvaneth to make them less reliant on summoning wyldwoods(especially if they go 2nd)

So strike and fade is another mechanic that removes interaction from one player and allows the other to safely do their stuff without a real way of counteracting. Awful game design choice in my opinion. While this is very interesting in competitive environment, I really see no benefit for such rules in casual play. It is especially ridiculous when you consider 3rd Core Rules did several things to improve interactions and now we see one of the more controversial rule from 2.5 LRL come back…or do you guys see it differently?

It being once per turn and only doable after the unit fights does a lot to keep it semi-interactable.

On your turn, don't charge multiple Sylvaneth units and you get to fight them before they fight + teleport.
On their turn, try to keep them only able to hit expendable chaff (what you'd normally do anyways).

Also, if you're on objectives, they're not likely to *want* to run away, depending on the mission and how many points they need to score.

On related note had been worrying about the new winged archer unleash hell&retreat but noticed it's fairly trivial to make useless if you suffer 1-2 casualties from unleash　hell so not as strong as it appeared at first

(and so far haven't seen melee hit&run been issue with other armies so not worried yet)

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I hope whichever team decided that -thank goodness- frightful touch should auto wound on a 6 to hit instead of dealing mortals gets to call the shots. Seriously, mortal wounds on hit rolls are the second bane of AoS.

So I wrote this before I read the new NH tome. I take it back. That thing seems like it was patched together by underpaid interns, and a few well written rules do not make up for the army having its soul sucked out.

All the new battletomes have been really boring, structurally. You have a couple of good warscrolls keeping things interesting while your army special rule is 'plus 1 to hit after jumping through some hoops that are slightly different than everybody else's hoops.'

ERJAK wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I hope whichever team decided that -thank goodness- frightful touch should auto wound on a 6 to hit instead of dealing mortals gets to call the shots. Seriously, mortal wounds on hit rolls are the second bane of AoS.

So I wrote this before I read the new NH tome. I take it back. That thing seems like it was patched together by underpaid interns, and a few well written rules do not make up for the army having its soul sucked out.

All the new battletomes have been really boring, structurally. You have a couple of good warscrolls keeping things interesting while your army special rule is 'plus 1 to hit after jumping through some hoops that are slightly different than everybody else's hoops.'

The army mechanics for NH are the good part actually. As for the rest, that's just completely untrue. I cannot fathom how you came to that position.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

charles_the_dead_lizzard wrote:
So strike and fade is another mechanic that removes interaction from one player and allows the other to safely do their stuff without a real way of counteracting. Awful game design choice in my opinion. While this is very interesting in competitive environment, I really see no benefit for such rules in casual play. It is especially ridiculous when you consider 3rd Core Rules did several things to improve interactions and now we see one of the more controversial rule from 2.5 LRL come back…or do you guys see it differently?

There IS interactivity; the devil is in the details. The terrain piece they jump to needs to be more than 3" from all enemy units. The opposing player can shut it down with positioning, and considering it is only certain kinds of terrain and not any piece that is very doable.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:
Nice change on sylvaneth to make them less reliant on summoning wyldwoods(especially if they go 2nd)

Yes, I am very encouraged to see that.

Personally, I think the "wholly within" part will be a big determining factor. Sylvaneth are not small based models for the most part.

Its nice not to be reliant on having to place wyldwoods on a crowded board but the abilities feel geared a little too hard toward giving up ground.

Have there been any rumors as to what the season effects are going to be?

First time i heard seasons at least. Not much rumours about sylvaneth rules been floating around

tneva82 wrote:
First time i heard seasons at least. Not much rumours about sylvaneth rules been floating around

By seasons I mean the 'Seasons of War' mentioned in the article those earlier snippets were from.

 Captain Joystick wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
First time i heard seasons at least. Not much rumours about sylvaneth rules been floating around

By seasons I mean the 'Seasons of War' mentioned in the article those earlier snippets were from.

Yes i know. That was first time i have heard gw mentioned them and so far haven't heard rule leaks for sylvaneth

 Captain Joystick wrote:
Its nice not to be reliant on having to place wyldwoods on a crowded board but the abilities feel geared a little too hard toward giving up ground.

They may be moving towards more of a 'lure' playstyle as opposed to just blocking off sections of the board with 'do not step on grass' signs.

 Rihgu wrote:
It being once per turn and only doable after the unit fights does a lot to keep it semi-interactable.

On your turn, don't charge multiple Sylvaneth units and you get to fight them before they fight + teleport.
On their turn, try to keep them only able to hit expendable chaff (what you'd normally do anyways).

Also, if you're on objectives, they're not likely to *want* to run away, depending on the mission and how many points they need to score.

Also noticed on rereading need to be wholly within 9" of suitable terrain piece which isn't quaranteed and will at least allow positioning so that sylvaneth won't be able to get all to attack. More so if you set up terrain.

Skaven battletome preview

Unlike the subfactions employed by less cunning (and mercenary) cultures, there’s nothing stopping Skaven generals from mix-and-matching units from each Great Clan to create the army of their ambitious dreams. The new battletome does offer a devious twist for those showing uncharacteristic loyalty, however…

On top of a unique selection of command traits and artefacts, each of the Great Clans now has a two-tiered allegiance ability – include one or two HEROES with the same Great Clan keyword, and they’ll unlock a nifty battle trait. If you take three or more HEROES from that Great Clan, however, that trait will get much stronger – strength in numbers, yes-yes!

This pick-and-mix approach gives you a tremendous amount of wiggle room when building your Skaven army. A matched play army of 1,000 points can squeeze in the full three HEROES from a single Great Clan, or trade power for versatility by spreading its choices around. At 2,000 points, you can maximise two Great Clans at once, focus on one Great Clan to fully indulge in its boosted battle trait, or sprinkle in leaders from every Great Clan and enjoy a buffet of weaker abilities.

On top of that, every Skaven also benefits from three updated universal battle traits – keep a watchful eye out for those when Battletome: Skaven scurries into pre-order shortly.

That's super nifty, in my opinion.

I like it, fixes some big issues with Skaven army building in the past, glad to see skaven armies can be skaven armies again instead of the bizarre subfactioning approach they were trying to push in the past.

One thing of worry is that unless it's intentional you can pile in again when you attack(don't see nothing in rule saying no) the pile in all at once can cost you attacks when opponent removes models in range of unit that hasnn't attacked yet(but piled with this rule).

And can't do at the double for army wide 6" run

I like it. Excited to see what else there is.

These are going to eat virtually every battleline alive:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/06/08/quicker-than-a-flash-the-spiterider-lancers-strike-at-foes-before-they-can-react/

I'm loving those models.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
These are going to eat virtually every battleline alive:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/06/08/quicker-than-a-flash-the-spiterider-lancers-strike-at-foes-before-they-can-react/

I dunno, average 2 damage from each model against a 4+ save with that attack profile. From what we have they seem more tanky, but we really need to see the whole warscroll.

The flying archers are the fun killers atm, doubling down on what the community already dislikes about MWs.

Generals Handbook, Sylvaneth, Skaven and a load of catch up stuff next week. The must have an over stock of Doomfire Warlocks to shift!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/06/12/sunday-preview-dig-for-victory-with-roots-rats-and-rock-drillers/

I think that just leaves the Krondspine Incarnate, Thondia terrain, Deathmaster and Lady of Vines for separate releases (then the 2 Black Library minis)

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
These are going to eat virtually every battleline alive:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/06/08/quicker-than-a-flash-the-spiterider-lancers-strike-at-foes-before-they-can-react/

I dunno, average 2 damage from each model against a 4+ save with that attack profile. From what we have they seem more tanky, but we really need to see the whole warscroll.

The flying archers are the fun killers atm, doubling down on what the community already dislikes about MWs.

Well 12" range so one shot wonder. They shoot, another round at unleash hell if not shot to death and then die.

Nice to get the books and a full catchup of nearly everything. The Daughters vanguard was so close to perfection. Just needed to dump the dark riders and get khinari in there instead.

So, from the outside looking in... what's wrong with the Warlocks?

They aren't op broken and aren't unit you want to spam so makes spamming vanquard box not good idea.

Issue i have with that box is i already have 10 of those so warcry box plus character is still cheaper. Not sure do i need 3rd warlock squad

Out of interest, do we know what "Season 1" on the General's Handbook means? Is it a new labeling system with the whole span of 2022-2023 as the first season and the next one following a year later, or does GW plan to follow the 40k model and have several seasons a year in AoS, too?

No one knows for sure(gw hasn't said) but odds are multiple ghb in a year coming.

Thanks. Let's see what happens, then.

tneva82 wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
These are going to eat virtually every battleline alive:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/06/08/quicker-than-a-flash-the-spiterider-lancers-strike-at-foes-before-they-can-react/

I dunno, average 2 damage from each model against a 4+ save with that attack profile. From what we have they seem more tanky, but we really need to see the whole warscroll.

The flying archers are the fun killers atm, doubling down on what the community already dislikes about MWs.

Well 12" range so one shot wonder. They shoot, another round at unleash hell if not shot to death and then die.

Or they have other units in front of them, the default tactic for squishy ranged units...?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:
No one knows for sure(gw hasn't said) but odds are multiple ghb in a year coming.

Ugh, I really hope not. The GHBs have been great, but not twice-a-year great.

I wonder if GHB Seasons are GW perhaps merging the GHB with campaign seasons rather than having them as separate things?

Would make sense, since they proclaimed Thondia as a "Season of War" bit.

Prices

 DaveC wrote:
Prices

30 GBP for the GHB. What was the last one? 25?

Are Skaven ever going to get a range refresh?
Their models are old as gak and look terrible.

 dan2026 wrote:
Are Skaven ever going to get a range refresh?
Their models are old as gak and look terrible.

Not all of them are terrible.

A good many are pretty solid.

That said yes they do need a range update; but AoS is rife with armies that need range updates or extensions. Don't forget it wasn't that long ago that people were predicting that GW as going to remove Slaanesh from the game since they'd not had any new models in ages; not even a new Keeper whilst all the other Chaos gods got a new greater demon model. Meanwhile you've got armies like Flesheaters where almost the entire army is in one boxed set plus one or two leader models outside of it.

Or armies like Ossiarchs or Fyreslayers which are fairly new (newish for fyreslayers now) and clearly need a second wave of models to flesh out their range with more diversity, choice and units filling different roles for the table.


Then you hit the huge mess that is Cities of Sigmar which has some fragments of some forces; whole armies of others and no real clear indication of what GW will do with any of it. Will they keep all or some; will they drop all or some; will they fragment it into subforces; will they parcel out forces to others - eg remerge the dark elves into a single force under the DoK etc...



Skaven are one of many and in many ways whilst they've old models they have a big advantage in having a very diverse and large range of models. It's very clear Skaven are here to stay and they don't lack for diversity or choice.

One thing skaven could do with is skyre acolytes. 14.5e for single model you need 5 for minimum unit? Which is supposed to be battleline option? Oh dear. Wonder how many even have unit...

Of course the character I'm interested in is more expensive than the others. Go figure.

tneva82 wrote:
One thing skaven could do with is skyre acolytes. 14.5e for single model you need 5 for minimum unit? Which is supposed to be battleline option? Oh dear. Wonder how many even have unit...

Me and a bud went and calculated the most financially expensive army that could fit into 500 points for AoS. It was a warlock-engineer with acolytes and totaled approximately $410

Yea pretty sure it's most expensive(cash wise) battleline.

Not even expensive in points...main thing would be bl tax for more stormfiends in skyre army.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/06/13/gang-up-on-your-enemies-in-a-furry-tide-with-battletome-skaven/


3" combat range seems pretty nasty, if you can have enough big dangerous units to exploit it.

Interesting to see if spears gets any buff. With 20 guys sword or spear irrelevant range wise. 10 swords will have little trouble with 25mm bases anyway.

Screaming bell gets -1 to hit in melee, thanquol and screaming bell can'w retreat out of combat in combat phase.

tneva82 wrote:
Interesting to see if spears gets any buff. With 20 guys sword or spear irrelevant range wise. 10 swords will have little trouble with 25mm bases anyway.

Screaming bell gets -1 to hit in melee, thanquol and screaming bell can'w retreat out of combat in combat phase.

We might see clanrats getting the deathrattle skeletons treatment, with both spears and blades being folded into one weapon.

Also would need to apply to plague monks but yes that's certainly option though would have expected box set warscroll be like that. We'll see.

Hope not. I like a lot of the consolidation that has happened but that is a bit too much for me. Could make spears a defensive weapon with a bonus against chargers.

It would be a good thing to have the skeleton rattle treatment for skaven clanrats / plague monks weapons. Let it be simply visual, without any optimization to ruin your way to build models.

Given the rule showed in the preview, I assume it will be what we'll get.

If not spears needs something or choice ls so lopsided not funny. 15-19 models too small niche for spears. Less and swords reach all anyway, 20 swords have max reach as well

The Nighthaunt box having the unmounted Knight of Shrouds is probably the reason why its been out of stock on the website for ages.

Couple ghb rumours i saw. Can't comment on reliability but if true looking good.

I forsee salt from sce players. They got salty enough when their teleport became same as others beside being lot more reliable :lol:

Hi everyone,

I was browsing on FB and the latest AOS article mistakenly mentionned a new edition for the game.

It has been quickly modified (and the comments related have been deleted) but you can still find it mentionned in the versionning system


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here it is >



(sorry for the double post, I couldn't post images in my first reply as it was my first message !)

AoS 3.0 is like 1 year old. I'm sure they're referring to a new "season". I wouldn't read too much into community post typos.

Assuming legit. We know no death this year for sure. Gw can suffer delays but having announced roadmap for this year with no death they won't hasten it.

A battalion that gives +1 damage vs units in one other specific battalion seems like peak ineptitude in game design.

Anyway, only weapon profile consolidation I really want to see is for Stormfiends. Units where every single model has unique weapons is kinda just gross.

chaos0xomega wrote:
A battalion that gives +1 damage vs units in one other specific battalion seems like peak ineptitude in game design.

Anyway, only weapon profile consolidation I really want to see is for Stormfiends. Units where every single model has unique weapons is kinda just gross.

The phrasing on several of those is weird; 'fight in 2 ranks' has no mechanical meaning, and can be interpreted as quite a lot of different things. One drop still being there is entirely redundant since that battalion is in the core rules; there would be no reason for it not to be there unless a battlepack specifically removed it. Suffice it to say those rumors are not entirely precise (assuming they are accurate to begin with).

Removing the hero phase move on Stormdrakes would be great; it is an ability they completely do not need and pushes them well into broken territory.

In the past I've seen AoS players shorthand "fight in 2 ranks" to refer to engagement ranges. Units with weapons that have 1" melee range can fight "in 2 ranks" if it is in base contact with a friendly model that is itself in base contact with an enemy model, as the GW bases are about 25mm across but 1" is roughly 25.4mm across, etc. Units with weapons that have 2" melee range can likewise do the same, but the base to base criteria is no longer needed, and if in base to base can "fight in 3 ranks" so long as they are in a unit mounted on 25mm bases, etc.

Personally I hate the usage of that terminology and think its gross/kinda try-hard, but it is what it is.

In this case I am not exactly sure what they are saying, but I imagine its probably a rule that says that a model is considered to be in range with its melee weapons if it is within base contact with a friendly model in the same unit that is itself within engagement range of an enemy model.

2 Ranks makes no sense in a game that hasn't got any ranking system in place. Either the person providing the summary is really shorthanding it a bit like Chaos says; or its just fake and people repeating it didn't think it through when they repeated it.

"All battleline infantry under 4 wounds can fight in 2 ranks"

So I guess that doesn't help gluttons/bulls......

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/06/15/veteran-infantry-take-centre-stage-in-the-next-generals-handbook/

A bunch of the rumours are confirmed.

Big change here. Gs that can fail besides lose more. Lot less auto t1 bt's.

Glad to see more difficult strategies and tactics, assuming the rumor pans out. Combined with the preview article looks like a lot of creative changes that will mix things up and keep gameplay fresh. I am definitely sold on the concept; we players get novel gameplay experiences, GW gets the inevitable sales boost from people picking up new units. As long as the rules have sufficient checks and balances to keep gameplay from getting too skewed I think it will work well.

That is in regards to the overall theory. On ground level I do have some concerns. Will wait till I can go through everything before passing judgement though.

 Overread wrote:
2 Ranks makes no sense in a game that hasn't got any ranking system in place. Either the person providing the summary is really shorthanding it a bit like Chaos says; or its just fake and people repeating it didn't think it through when they repeated it.

Its the silly shorthand as I said, WarCom pretty much confirmed those rumors, odd wording and all.

What the rumors got wrong though is that the one battalion doesn't give +1D vs units in the other battalion, as best as I can tell. Reconciling the rumors with the Warcom article, the "Bounty Hunters" battalion is the one that would be getting the damage bonus vs the "Expert Conquerors" battalion, except Bounty Hunters battalion does +1D vs Galletian Veterans rather than against Expert Conquerors (who are otherwise all Galletian Vets) specifically. That makes a lot more sense and is much more mechanically sound.

 GrosseSax wrote:

"All battleline infantry under 4 wounds can fight in 2 ranks"

So I guess that doesn't help gluttons/bulls......

It's 4 or less, the WarCom article even calls that unit out specifically.

Out of my armies barring point changes dok love these. Archievable gs, 3 good bt's, loads of atttacks benefitting from extra damage battalion...wow.

(extra damage better be just melee)

WarCom did say it was melee attacks, yes.

So they're trying to buff infantry armies, huh? Theoretically that'll be nice for how I like to play slaves to darkness, lots of sword+board warriors. I also really want whatever chaos legionnaires end up being so they'll also be nice.

 cole1114 wrote:
So they're trying to buff infantry armies, huh? Theoretically that'll be nice for how I like to play slaves to darkness, lots of sword+board warriors. I also really want whatever chaos legionnaires end up being so they'll also be nice.

Next season will be characters or artillery, and who wants the fun of massed artillery.

I do like that there is such a shake up to keep things fresh(ish).

I always consider it strange how GW broke up armies into leaders, troops, monsters and artillery.

Because so many armies have zero artillery and many that do often only have one model in that slot. I can't see GW focusing on artillery for a season at all because its just not there unless they do a MASSIVE release of models for a lot of factions or a set of highly adaptive neutral artillery models (or one for each GA)



What would be cool is if in 4.0 they create a Cavalry slot then they can mess with cavalry in a bigger way as right now cavalry is just larger fast infantry in how it functions

Still waiting on the season for boats. Will only like 3 factions be able to engage with it? Yes.
Do I care? Not really after having 2 seasons my faction just cannot engage with at all.

Chaos Warrior command and Chaos Legionnaires images posted on Reddit

 DaveC wrote:
Chaos Warrior command and Chaos Legionnaires images posted on Reddit

Nice.

In the initial leaks you could almost see them in the pics, blurred out in the foreground or background. Good to get confirmation.

Even though they are monopose, the Chaos Warrior kit in the SC box are amazing mini's. To get another kit to supplement them with options will be awesome.

And Chaos Legionnaire in the bottom left of the second pic is pretty intriguing.

Whoops! Already posted. Sorry.

 DaveC wrote:
Chaos Warrior command and Chaos Legionnaires images posted on Reddit

I must be crazy, but aren't those Chaos Warriors just the single-pose ones from the Start Collecting! box?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 DaveC wrote:
Chaos Warrior command and Chaos Legionnaires images posted on Reddit

I must be crazy, but aren't those Chaos Warriors just the single-pose ones from the Start Collecting! box?

No, the top row is all new sculpts

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 DaveC wrote:
Chaos Warrior command and Chaos Legionnaires images posted on Reddit

I must be crazy, but aren't those Chaos Warriors just the single-pose ones from the Start Collecting! box?

Someone speculated that they would just have a new sprue for the halberds and command bits, but even the bodies of the standard, musician, and halberdier are new. Or at least don't match any of the ones in the current Start Collecting box.

The top half are new, the bottom half are the current new ones

Seraphon point changes reportedly. If true quite modest. Wonder if line continues.

Stegadon +5
Saurus Astrolith Bearer -10
Skink Priest +10
Razordons +10

Whee. Rules giving low wound battleline infantry bonuses...but if 2vp per dead such　unit is common feature that's...lots of vp's being bleeding.

I wouldn't consider anything we've seen giving "low wound infantry battleline bonuses"

More like, giving trolls/ogors/3-4 wound big base guys bonuses.

Honestly, take absolutely minimum Veterans. If all or even some battleplans give up that much VP for them, they aren't worth it. Bounty Hunter fulminators/Spiterider Lancers will just rip them to pieces.

More leaks coming up. Curious one is lumineth that has entire new hero. Makes one think lumineth book was supposed to be out but delayed for fall and unless they release new hero randomly for them does suggest them being order book.

Didn't catch any new unit from tzeentch though not don't recall their units at heart so possible i missed(blur didn't help). Still could be fall chaos but no equal hint there.

Did notice flamers and (lol) kairic acolytes going up. Lol. But overall point changes super light. No changes on stuff like sentinels, fulminators, dragons, raptors, nurgle beasts, nurgle flying blight lords, gutrippas, boltboys. Ogors just thundertusk frostlord and beastriders going down.

Skaven mostly going down buckling aos3 battletome trends. Sylvaneth going up following it.

Scinari Enlightener...interesting!

I guess that's their single character relase to go with the Battletome

tneva82 wrote:
Whee. Rules giving low wound battleline infantry bonuses...but if 2vp per dead such　unit is common feature that's...lots of vp's being bleeding.

Hm. 1vp per unit I'd be down with, but 2vp seems too much to me even without the (admittedly avoidable) +1 for every model being in objective range when it dies.

Sylvaneth Vanguard box

Looks pretty decent. All but the branchwych have multiple build options so multiple purchase aren’t an issue

Interesting. Surprised by the lack of dryads.

Are the Revenant dudes Battleline? If I'm going to make a Sylvaneth army one day, I'd prefer to not include any 15 year old models. Dryad were ok when they were released but are starting to show their age.

jullevi wrote:
Are the Revenant dudes Battleline? If I'm going to make a Sylvaneth army one day, I'd prefer to not include any 15 year old models. Dryad were ok when they were released but are starting to show their age.

Tree-Revenants are Battleline.
Kurnoth Hunters are Battleline in the Heartwood subfaction.
Spite-Revenants(the alt build for Tree Revenants) are Battleline in Dreadwood(Drycha's subfaction).
Treelords are Battleline in Oakenbrow subfaction.

Dryads are native Battleline, but also summonable by the Lady of Vines.

So you get a Battleline(Tree-Revenants) and two conditional battlelines plus a hero(Branchwych)!

That's a pretty good vanguard box. Similar to the Nurgle one, you could easily double up on that without an issue.

 GaroRobe wrote:
Looks pretty decent. All but the branchwych have multiple build options so multiple purchase aren’t an issue

Buy ten of this and run the wyches as Dryads.

Best Vanguard ever.

Hm, free points update. Neat

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/06/21/free-points-updates-for-warhammer-age-of-sigmar-as-we-march-into-a-new-season/

Having just started a Hedonites army to challenge myself on the table and with the brush, I'm fairly happy at a glance!

Kinda on the fence with the Hedonite update in points. If just because I'm seeing quite a lot of rises. Then again 3.0 has been a really strange edition in my view after 2.0.

Slaanesh I think feels it more keenly because of the summoning leading to units being a touch over-costed because you're expected to summon more into the game; but 3.0 has felt like GW trying to push AoS away from wargame and closer to skirmish by slashing unit blocks through the reinforcement system and by upping point costs everywhere.










Free point update is fantastic. Makes full sense for them to release the document as the Warscroll Build has always had that info and is also free. AoS always kinda feels like they've got a few more open access elements to its benefit, even if 3.0 did see us lose warscrolls on profiles on the unit page on the GW website.

Yay for GW giving us the free points directly!

AOS app updated to GHB and new battletomes...and balance updates have been slipped in as well. As they are in units hard to say what has changed all in all but 2 big things:

a) scaly skin requires some keywords(skink isn't one so scaly skin doesn't help salamanders etc)
b) stormdrake guard no more hero phase movement. Instead charge phase reroll charge once per game.

No idea what other stuff might have changed but guess the data slate is coming out Very Soon.

edit: Gloomspite gets rally on 4+ under moon for moonclans and +1 to save for trolls instead of previous effects.

Living city nerfed, sce shoot hero phase holy command not reinforced units(yey. Been suggesting this for a while). Be'lakor bodyguard gone.

Grinning blade "not visible out of 12" permanent. Not just 1st round.