Anyone interested in mishima should pledge the kickastarter at £30 because even if they don't get unlocked exchange your box for 5 limited edition minis that you can later sell for profit, and buy mishima for that money once they get released.
Or just chip in for the mishima doomtrooper and increase with £30 later.
TheDungen wrote: Anyone interested in mishima should pledge the kickastarter at £30 because even if they don't get unlocked exchange your box for 5 limited edition minis that you can later sell for profit, and buy mishima for that money once they get released.
Or just chip in for the mishima doomtrooper and increase with £30 later.
Get the single starter box for £30, plus the doom trooper for £3.8 I'd say. If we don't get the misima starter, get another one to sell on Ebay, and keep your doom trooper plus his cards for your self in worst case scenario.
At the time of this post we are £8,767 from mishima. If we can get a good push in the last 27 hours we will be set.
I did it! or rather you did it... that's so awesome. I'll get one extra and sign the cartoon as the guy who suggested the name! who knows it may become a collectors item some day. =)
They are looking pretty damn good so far. Basically look like open-top one-man IFVs.
Pretty cool concept. With dual independent treads it can steer like a tank. Reminds me a bit of a fully tracked snowmobile.
Was not planning on getting these, but with a bit more work ...
They do still need a lot of work.
Guns
Guns and mount are quite boring and the guns are tiny for WarZone guns. Doubling (at least) the size of the muzzles, making the water jackets 50% larger and fluting the water jackets would be a good way to start.
As someone else mentioned, feet on the exhaust pipes are a problem.
Sides need a lot more detail; panel lines, road wheel mounting point access and perhaps more mechanical detail.
Does not need to he heavy detail like the Capitol stuff but there needs to be something. The Vorreiter is a pretty complex piece of machinery and access to the guts will certainly be needed.
actually turning in that manner doesn't work very well with the tracks close together. You get more torque the further the track units are from the axis of rotation, the old version of the bike was actually more plausible.
TheDungen wrote: actually turning in that manner doesn't work very well with the tracks close together. You get more torque the further the track units are from the axis of rotation, the old version of the bike was actually more plausible.
I'm thinking of track brakes. If the rider hits one track brake hard and leans the bike to the braked track side, I'm thinking it will be possible to make a very tight turn at low to medium speeds and a fairly tight skid turns at higher speeds.
Reversing one track should make the bike spin in place just like a tank.
TheDungen wrote: actually turning in that manner doesn't work very well with the tracks close together. You get more torque the further the track units are from the axis of rotation, the old version of the bike was actually more plausible.
I'm thinking of track brakes. If the rider hits one track brake hard and leans the bike to the braked track side, I'm thinking it will be possible to make a very tight turn at low to medium speeds and a fairly tight skid turns at higher speeds.
Reversing one track should make the bike spin in place just like a tank.
Exactly, leaning was always part of the concept. Each grip controls 1 track
TheDungen wrote: actually turning in that manner doesn't work very well with the tracks close together. You get more torque the further the track units are from the axis of rotation, the old version of the bike was actually more plausible.
I'm thinking of track brakes. If the rider hits one track brake hard and leans the bike to the braked track side, I'm thinking it will be possible to make a very tight turn at low to medium speeds and a fairly tight skid turns at higher speeds.
Reversing one track should make the bike spin in place just like a tank.
Exactly, leaning was always part of the concept. Each grip controls 1 track
I think its going to need foot controls too. There are two brakes, two clutches, a throttle and a gear shift...
TheDungen wrote: actually turning in that manner doesn't work very well with the tracks close together. You get more torque the further the track units are from the axis of rotation, the old version of the bike was actually more plausible.
I'm thinking of track brakes. If the rider hits one track brake hard and leans the bike to the braked track side, I'm thinking it will be possible to make a very tight turn at low to medium speeds and a fairly tight skid turns at higher speeds.
Reversing one track should make the bike spin in place just like a tank.
Exactly, leaning was always part of the concept. Each grip controls 1 track
I think its going to need foot controls too. There are two brakes, two clutches, a throttle and a gear shift...
It looks a little to heavy to lean, though yeah if it could be it would remove the problem.
reversing a track when going at any mentionable speed would be a bad idea(but great for turning when standing still). Not even tanks (which sits a lot more comfortably on the ground) do that when moving fast they just run one track slower than the other and allow torque and their considerable weight to do the rest.
The torque here is as i said considerably lower but if it can be tilted yeah then it works, it gets less friction and less torque that way but since most of its rotation will come from the leaning, its possible.
It all comes down to what its made of and how powerful its engines are. you may be able to pull of a torque turn on that providing you can get enough speed difference between the tracks without crashing. You may be able to do a lean turn providing it slight enough.
the move with reversing an engine is called a crash turn (the half version of crash stop), and military boats with water jets are very fond of doing it, but even then if you screw up people might end up getting hurt.
Considering the quality of bauhaus gear and tech levels it could havev a simple gyroscope to help it keep balence when leaning into turns in addtion to track adjustments as mentioned.
reversing a track when going at any mentionable speed would be a bad idea(but great for turning when standing still).
Agreed, reversing track would only work when stopped. Has nothing to do with turning while moving.
Just mentioned it because it probably would work while stopped.
This bike would be a fun, real life engineering project. I think a team of skilled engineers could design and build one now. Fitting it all inside the Vorreiter form factor might be tough, but I think it could be built with current motorcycle/snowmobile technology.
The torque here is as i said considerably lower but if it can be tilted yeah then it works, it gets less friction and less torque that way but since most of its rotation will come from the leaning, its possible.
You don't think stopping or significantly slowing one track would make it pivot quickly around the stopped/slowed track?
Seems like it would go like this: Lean, apply track brake, which will compress that tracks suspension, leaving the unloaded outside track at full extension but still in contact with the ground pushing the bike quickly around the stopped/slowed track.
Suspension on the vehicle would need to be relatively soft and have plenty of travel.
I've been thinking on making the one with just one track since I first saw the artwork. Cant really spare time right now but I've saved the picture and maybe I'll get there some day.
As i said earlier the distance from the outer edge of one track to the outer edge of the other track is what roughly 1 meter. so the torque you'll get will be equal to the difference of the forced applied to the two tracks by the ground. (in the plane)
there is one force breaking the speed at the leaning side its F=-mu*N
where N=m*g, lets say we're on earth (or venus which has similar gravity) so
g=9.82
so
N=4910
mu=0.25 (rubber on wet asphalt)
Ffriktion= 1227n
And one at the moving side which is
half the force that it uses to accelerate, lets say it accelerates 2.3 meters per second per second (the same as the fastest accelerating motorcycle in the world)
F=ma gives us that the force thus is 1150n. but this is for both tracks to the force will be half that. 575m
then we're half meter from the axis of rotation so divide them both by two and add them our torque is 901 for reference it would have been twice as large if the tracks was a meter apart.
Lets approximate the bike to cuboid roughly say 2.5meters long 1 meter high and 1.2 meters wide.
the moment of intertia for a cuboid is
(1/12)m*((w^2)+(L^2))=I
say it weighs in at 1/2 meteric tonnes.
I=320kg/m^2
a=t/I
a=2.8 radians per second which is just slightly under Pi, so a little less than 180degrees in a second. I guess i have disproven myself with these tech specs it'd actually work. =P
This will be odd 24 hours for Mishima players. They might get access to a starter (and Hero) this day ... or not.
No preview of the models in sight, just an old art of a unit not in the starter.
If there will be a last minute preview, there is no time to give feedback on the models like with all other models, so it is hit or miss for this faction.
This is not completely fair to Mishima players in my opinion.
Of course there is no preview, they haven't funded yet. Prodos don't know if they have the capital to fund a sixth faction right out of the gate. Digging in to their pockets to create art assets for a faction that was never even originally planned to appear during the Kickstarter would be a bad idea. Prodos already dodged a bullet with the Free Marines, I don't think they'll be as keen to count their chickens before they hatch again.
Let's just let it happen. Either Mishima unlocks or it doesn't. Bauhaus players were in the same boat for the first £35k, Capitol players were in the same boat until we hit £80k. Why would Prodos change the policy when it is not entirely certain that they will get the money they need to produce the concepts?
Prodos are not wizards, they cannot redesign a whole faction in a few hours. There will be Mishima players willing to be early adopters before they see concepts (just like there were with Bauhaus and Cap players). If a player does not feel comfortable pledging sight-unseen, then they get to wait for release. That's the way it goes.
If Prodos stick their neck out, spend money and things don't work out, then that was a bad idea. Sure, going to the trouble of getting concepts and the like may push things to £140k, but it may not. And until that money counter ticks over, I agree with Prodos. The money we have put in is for designing and producing everything that has come before. Mishima can wait until £140k if it comes just like the other KS funded factions did.
Leaning on a Vorreiter looks impossible, speaking as someone who rides. The bottom is FLAT. Hell, the wider regular tires are the more you have to fight it into turns and changes your geometry in turns. Not good. There is a reason track bikes dont have super wides.
Theyd be good for straight lines and wide sweeping turns only.
Kroothawk. There will not be renders of Mishima on the KS. We have said many times before, we are not using KS as a a preorder, instead as it was initially intended. So once something is unlocked it will be worked on. For those that prefer a preorder approach, that will be doable on our website (warzonegame.com).
Unless they can render something in less than 12 hours I wouldn't get my hopes up for seeing the mishima soldiers, but if this kickatarter has taught us one thing is that what one person hates another loves so I say get the mishima starter just in case, if it turns out you end up not liking the look of it for whatever reasons then just sell it to someone who does. Also I think that everyone agrees that regardless of our opinions of specific units that we've liked the vast majority of what prodos has shown us, thus the odds are Mishima is going to be great. I've just added a mishima starter to my list of things i want. I trust i prodos' ability to deliver greatness once again.
145k stretch goal almost hit! @Prodos you really should make sure Tabletopgamingnews announces this is your last day, they have about the most readership of all the places I think.
madzerker wrote: 145k stretch goal almost hit! @Prodos you really should make sure Tabletopgamingnews announces this is your last day, they have about the most readership of all the places I think.
We would but they will not allow us to place ads, I guess being that we are not of their CMON stable!
not even an add but just one of their news announcements like they have a couple of times for you guys this KS.They announced a few other kickstarter updates even today and none of them are their own games. Frustrating when a news site is bought out and becomes biased :(
@Prodos: Can you confirm that there will be no Light Infantry with the WW1 hat?
And as the kickstarter actually sells Mishima miniatures (two boxes and 2 characters, even locking a hero to general release, being exclusive to kickstarter), it kind of IS a pre-order for a complete Warzone army, just without any hint what they might look like. That's what I was pointing at. I would have voted to not include them rather than include them just as an abstract idea.
WW1 hats? Man, you'll make our mounties feel old! Those are plain old campaign hats the old Light Infantry wore.
And considering how iconic it was made by R. Lee Emery in Full Metal Jacket, I'd probably be more inclined to nickname it the drill sergeant hat. And due to that, it is if anything, tied more to 'Nam as much as anywhere else (though, again, it is still used to this day by military personnel and law enforcement).
That said, it would make for a good character hat. Cap had a character named Sgt. Carter who was depicted with one. But an entire unit at least makes me think more on the Canadian side of things than a gung ho USA! style unit. Maybe Prodos can make a unit of Mountie Marines to compensate.
Damn, Prodos has broken my will. I just can't resist a Mishima starter, and since I'm getting a load of 2-of and 3-of squads, I think I can sacrifice one of those to a box of Hatamoto.
Ronin_eX wrote: That said, it would make for a good character hat. Cap had a character named Sgt. Carter who was depicted with one. But an entire unit at least makes me think more on the Canadian side of things than a gung ho USA! style unit. Maybe Prodos can make a unit of Mountie Marines to compensate.
Couldn't agree more. IMHO the drill sgt. hat doesn't look good on the whole unit, but damn right it is reserved for Sgt. Carter (Carter is on my profile picture btw). Hope to see Carter in WZ:R anytime soon.
Kroothawk wrote: @Prodos: Can you confirm that there will be no Light Infantry with the WW1 hat?
And as the kickstarter actually sells Mishima miniatures (two boxes and 2 characters, even locking a hero to general release, being exclusive to kickstarter), it kind of IS a pre-order for a complete Warzone army, just without any hint what they might look like. That's what I was pointing at. I would have voted to not include them rather than include them just as an abstract idea.
And considering how iconic it was made by R. Lee Emery in Full Metal Jacket, I'd probably be more inclined to nickname it the drill sergeant hat. And due to that, it is if anything, tied more to 'Nam as much as anywhere else (though, again, it is still used to this day by military personnel and law enforcement).
We just called them Smokey Bear hats, which in turn got the 2nd Ed. Capitol troops the nickname "Smokies", locally.
@Jacobus - Obviously you don't specify what you are getting with your extra pledge money (which is why you made the comment) so it's more of a comment for all those fence sitters. If you don't pledge, the exclusives are gone and youll have to be at E-Bays mercy (and as a side effect others might increase their pledges).
Inevitably, trades don't work out quite as some expected, and a few extra bucks show up for many. I've yet to participate in a KS where they didn't take C-Card or Paypal additions afterwards.
They have verified that they will take paypal in both the comments and on their pledge calculator.
"You can add more funds to your pledge at any point until May 31st at the Kicksarter price. Just drop us an email at payment@warzonegame.com and we will send you a paypal invoice."
Also are those latest posted Banshees the 3D Printed product?
primalexile wrote: They have verified that they will take paypal in both the comments and on their pledge calculator.
"You can add more funds to your pledge at any point until May 31st at the Kicksarter price. Just drop us an email at payment@warzonegame.com and we will send you a paypal invoice."
Also are those latest posted Banshees the 3D Printed product?
I wonder if they would take brand new pledges that way? Easier for me to spend my hobby money through paypal.
Woohoo, my personal pledge calculations were on the money (mostly). I apparently still have room for one more unexpected character though. I already have one of each of the ones I want... so who to double up on?
Oh, and for those who missed the Kickstarter. Prodos have started taking pre-orders. For a limited time they are having a 20% off pre-order sale. So not quite as deep a discount as the KS (and no exclusives of course), but about what one can expect from an online retailer. If you were just looking to pick up a couple of things then this is the time to do it! And just remember that is 20% off of the RRP. Not sure what shipping will be though.
But for all the people holding off for the post-KS pre-order. Well, it has begun!
Thank God I went The Cartel because Capitols has gone from being a joke to the I totally wanna army.
Now the big question is do I take a leap of faith and order the Hatamoto before seeing the results or continue with my 1ed end ones and add them later.
however the hatamoto turn out there is no way they could be 1 tenth as bad as the old ones by Tim (I sculpt with a trowel) Prow so I would grab the new ones haha
I'm going in for at least a bit of Mishima. A starter, an extra Meka and a unit of Hatamoto. Prodos have done really well on re-imagining the factions. I can't wait for their take on Mishima.
Man, I just realized how much stuff I got. I need to get a lot of painting done to make room for all this. *kind of hopes for delays so he has time*
Either the spreadsheet is broken or I do not understand anything. How the hell I'm going to pick my choices if the sheet is locked with stuff already selected?
And I can only add: AGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! I cannot fit my wishlist and I don't understand if the extra 10% is included in the central colunm or not.
hmmm strange, I have absolutely no problem with it. Everything is clear and easy. On the right side on the top you have cells that show you your total cost before and after 10% discount.
My problem is that I went from planning to get starter boxes to trade almost everything for more toys so my selection is confusing. Damn you Prodos for all the shiny toys!!!
TheDungen wrote: Ah now i figured it out, took a while =) in the end I end up wasting £3 I think I can live with that.
Got mine to £0.33 over...
Ended up get more stuff than I thought I was going to get because I somehow missed that the three heroes were included in Cartel and the 10% discount was counted on pledge, shipping and add ons.
For those with issues in the tool calculator the drop down menus do not work outside of office 2010. Selections must be typed in manually. So here is a list of those addons as they are typed so you can manually enter them.
1 Faction Heavy Action Photo
4 Factions Heavy Action Photos
5 Factions Heavy Action Photos
Addon - Any 4 Dice
Addon - Imperial Doomtrooper
Addon - Kickstarter Card set 30
Addon - KR multicase
Addon - KS only Razide Diorama
Addon - Objective Markers
Addon - Templates
Addon - Warzone T-Shirt
Alakhai
Angelika
Armored Chasseurs
Bauhaus - Starter
Big Bob Watts
Black Widow
Brotherhood - Starter
Brotherhood Troops
Capitol - Starter
Capitol Heavy Infantry
Capitol Infantry
Chasseurs
Crucifier
Cuirassier x2
Cybertronic - Starter
Dark Legion - Starter
Dominic
Dr Diana - Commander
Dr Diana - Neoclone
Erradicator
Etoiles Mortant
Everassur
Free Marines
Game Rules & Background Book
Golgotha
Grizzly
Hatamoto Troopers
Hiroko
Hussars
Icarus
Immortal
Inquisitors
Judicator
Juggernaut Arm. Hussars
Laura
Lord Nozaki
Machinators
Martian Banshees
Max Steiner
Meka
Mirrormen
Mishima - Starter
Mitch & Pride
Mortificators
Necrobeast Riders
Necromutants
Necromutants x2
None
Orca
Praetorian Behemoth
Praetorian Stalkers
Purple Sharks
Razide
Ronin Samurai
Sacred Warriors
Scorpions
Sea Lions
Tatsumoto
Undead Legionnaires
Valerie Duval
Valkyries
Venusian Rangers
Vorreiters
Vulcan
Weapon add on - Bauhaus
Weapon add on - Brotherhood
Weapon add on - Cybertronic
Weapon add on - Dark Legion
Yep that just blew up my current pledge list. Now depending if they release the Capitol heavy quickly I will just airmail them my left kidney because the wallet jumped into oncoming traffic.
TheDungen wrote: Nice model but Lord Inquisitor isn't a MC title. Make him a Inquisitor Majoris instead.
It is implied that there are more specialized ranks of Inquisitor than merely Inquisitor and Inquisitor Majore. Nikodemus, for instance, is Archinquisitor. Lord Inquisitor may be in charge of a larger chunk of the 2nd Directorate and be representative of a "warlord" level character in WZR while an Inquisitor Majoris may be hero level. With Inquisitors now being an elite squad and there being room in the force-org for 2-3 levels of unit, makes sense to have a third tier for them, potentially.
Most professions in Mutant Chronicles had several ranks, this was never really fleshed out for the Brotherhood whose Inquisitor/Majoris split was more like the split between grunts and officers (i.e. it had two tables for which level you were in the profession at). Expanding the rank structure would certainly be helpful since outside of Mortificators, the 2nd Directorate would have a lot of Inquisitors and having a rough idea at the chain of command could be handy.
TheDungen wrote: Nice model but Lord Inquisitor isn't a MC title. Make him a Inquisitor Majoris instead.
If they're revamping the game, minis, and overall theme in this new incarnation of the game, I suspect they also have the latitude to expand the fluff a bit as well.
true but the name is not in line with how brotherhood ranks are usually named. Most brotherhood ranks are lifted from the church or from scholastic origins like universities. Lord is a term of nobility and doesn't fit a faction that requires a member to give up all worldly titles to join. Also note this is not only a wargame its also an rpg and everything Prodos does now must click with what Modiphius will do in the rpg. So if they introduce the title lord inquisitor then we're stuck with the title.
So inquisitor majoris, supreme inquisitor, inquisitor emeritus and arch inquisitor are all good, lord inquisitor, inquisitor general, and similar titles of nobility or military rank isn't.
Also the fact that its used by 40k (where the inquisitors have nothing to do with the church) is a good reason to chose something else. I also believe that 40k are the only people (or the first) who have combined the titles lord and inquisitor before. While many real life inquisitors were drawn from the nobility none of them officially retained their titles as inquisitors (though a fair few continued to rule their holdings)
When I commented on the Lord Inquisitor title being very 40kish, Mark responded with the following:
" He is a Majoris, but happens to be a Lord too. Bit like a professor who is also a Sir (KBE, GBE etc.)", so that would seem to imply that perhaps he came from a Bauhaus family or some other noble house and kept his title. Seems a bit weird to me since it stands to reason, once you join the Brotherhood, you cut ties to your old life.
he's a pledger's character they name him and its their face. so they didn't make the title I suppose the pledger did. We cant really blame prodos for the people pledging not knowing the backstory... as long at its a one time deal I don't mind.
perhaps he managed to get his patents of nobility after becoming an inquisitor somehow.
I like the necrobeast but the centurion looks to human, I love the skalak but the head look like a washed up rock star than a captain of the dark legion. Maybe some heads with hair? And the piercing really doesn't help. oh and i hope he's larger than a regular human? cause while those arms look a little thin on him it may just be because he's tall.
oh and that front plate is that detachable? it looks like a separate part and I'd like to to be.
But with the exception of the head its a brilliant model, I'm glad I factored in a unit of them in my pledge amount. now "give more give give". =)
edit: after seeing all head options, I'll revise my judgement, the rider is great and all the riders heads are great, the necrobeast shown there is great but the alternative head for the beast needs a redesign. making a creature with big jaws make great sense in a dark legion kind of way but then stitching its mouth shut doesn't.
Yeah, the given head on the full mockup seems to be mimicing the fairly human looking Centurion of the original art. But the alternate heads definitely go in a more monstrous direction. They're all looking pretty good. I prefer the land-shark head over the alternate beast head, but they both look fairly good (ymmv and all that). They should create an imposing silhouette on the field, either way.
I dont midn the face that much I think I'll go for that head once I've scrapped of the piercing and greenstuffed on some hair. I like them being some weird mockery of a knight.
Just because I can't bear to see this thing languish on page two (and because we have concept art for Mishima). My gift to Dakka:
Ronin Samurai
Hatamoto!
Loving the updated look. Especially on the Hatamoto. Their description of light-weight armour in the fluff never jived with the art and stats depicting them in heavier armour. I love that the Hatamoto suit is a proper powersuit of the variety worn by elite Samurai (according to Mutant Chronicles fluff). They also managed to get the Meka-esque look it was supposed to have (powersuits being designed as "small" versions of the Meka battlesuit).
They managed to maintain the angular lines of Mishima while giving them that high-tech look they were always missing (they buy a lot of components from Cybertronic and had loads of power armour in the background).
Now, I just wonder if we'll see a unit sporting Shoa Ace custom armour. That would be great as a mid-range unit between the size of those Hatamoto and the full-on Meka.
I wasn't expecting them to go back to the Mutant Chronicles stuff so much, but I'm glad they did. It is shaping up to look really great.
Oh, and as a final note, the pledge manager should be going up at the end of the week.
I'm really liking the look of Mishima. We'll see how good the models turn out. I was originally kinda interested in Dark Legion but a lot of their stuff is looking more and more goofy to me. Not a big fan of those stalkers.
Is it a skirmish game or full blown wargame? I popped in during the kickstarter to peek at the renders of the future minis but didn't follow up enough to see the scale of the game. The last plastic boxed set came with 80 or so minis so definitely wasn't skirmish scale.
warboss wrote: Is it a skirmish game or full blown wargame? I popped in during the kickstarter to peek at the renders of the future minis but didn't follow up enough to see the scale of the game. The last plastic boxed set came with 80 or so minis so definitely wasn't skirmish scale.
From what I understand It's that wired modle count that sits between modren 40k and true Skirmish games. It's a Platoon Level game as opposed to the company level game 40k is today.
I'm really liking how the Mishima gear is shaping up. Looks WAY better than the old stuff. The only thing I'm not keen on is exposed heads. Please tell me these will have helmet options? If they do, then I might actually consider dropping Cybertronic and getting Mishima instead.
I'm so stoked for Mishima now, I always loved their depiction in Mutant Chronicles, but it translated poorly in to Warzone 1st Edition and never got much better. In MC they had all sorts of funky tech from proper power armour (which was quite unique to them at the time), large battlesuits and even full on mecha (the Gigamek! Which incidentally, I pray is their super-heavy down the road). They still had some cheap horde infantry given guns made by the lowest bidder (Ashigaru), but their high-end stuff was all exquisitely hand-made and rivaled Bauhaus in quality. So they had this wonderful divide in their ranks from lowly peasants with crappy plastic guns up to lords in armour created by artisans (and copious amounts of Cybertronic-sourced parts of course) wielding weapons passed down from father to son for centuries.
My biggest hope is that when they get to doing Bushido Samurai (or whatever they call 'em) that they don't make them pure assault units. Samurai without guns are weird.
warboss wrote: Is it a skirmish game or full blown wargame? I popped in during the kickstarter to peek at the renders of the future minis but didn't follow up enough to see the scale of the game. The last plastic boxed set came with 80 or so minis so definitely wasn't skirmish scale.
Good old "platoon-level" skirmish, but with room to go up or down quite a way. A game with 40 guys per side and some vehicles and walkers would be considered a very large game in most edition of Warzone. The beta itself was played with a dozen minis per side and lead to a very satisfying game.
As for the 2nd Edition boxed set? It was a really, really badly designed in general terms. It gave you 40 of the most basic troops, which is more than you will ever need and made for some pretty bland starter games. There was no real variety, just a bunch of low-level troops that were little more than cannon fodder. It was awesome mainly for the value and for being one of the first non-GW plastic attempts in the wider wargaming hobby. But the quality of the plastic was bad (wasn't polystyrene and seemed to actively resist attempts to glue it with even superglue), the contents didn't make for a great starting experience (it would be like learning 40k by facing two 40 grot armies against each other).
But the scale of the game itself usually started down around 6-12 minis and capped out around 40-ish minis for very large games. So it is still well within what most consider the skirmish scale. But instead of being strictly squad-based like Infinity it is usually called platoon-based because it focuses on several squads acting in conjunction. So it is more in the range of Rogue Trader/2nd Edition 40k, Stargrunt II, Tomorrow's War, Warpath and other games of that scale. It is sadly a gaming scale that hasn't gotten a lot of exposure outside of scenario-based "hard" sci-fi wargames and modern games. Now with Warpath and Warzone on the market I am starting to feel spoiled for one of my favourite gaming scales.
I liked the old mishima, the Ronin look good now but the Hatamoto is kind of telling me that i will never be more into new mishima than paint up a unit of ronin for fun. Bulky power-armour always one of those things that make me bask my head against a wall (dont get me started on sm terminators), the idea is so stupid, hey we've spend the last 100+ years making all weapons and armour smaller and more mobile so of course the future is going to be really bulky and large stuff.
The old mishima looked like soldiers, sure stylised armours but still something that might be plausible 50 years into the future (except the bright colours).
TheDungen wrote: I liked the old mishima, the Ronin look good now but the Hatamoto is kind of telling me that i will never be more into new mishima than paint up a unit of ronin for fun. Bulky power-armour always one of those things that make me bask my head against a wall (dont get me started on sm terminators), the idea is so stupid, hey we've spend the last 100+ years making all weapons and armour smaller and more mobile so of course the future is going to be really bulky and large stuff.
You're looking at the game through a wrong set of assumptions. Mutant Chronicles / Warzone is a post-apocalyptic setting, the Dark Symmetry has severely crippled mankind's technological progress.
You're looking at the game through a wrong set of assumptions. Mutant Chronicles / Warzone is a post-apocalyptic setting, the Dark Symmetry has severely crippled mankind's technological progress.
Yep, calculating machines are more like the babbage machines of mechanical/microsteam vent nature, and that Hatamoto is likely powered by a steam making engine to presrurize the gears and such for the suit. It is a ll low end electronics/diesel-steam punk except for Cybertronics who are looked at with suspicion as to how they can haz AI and NOT be meesed with by Dark Symmetry of the Dark Soul who is making the Mutants and bringing in aliens to attack the Solar System Corporations
Well it looks like the suit itself is diesel-powered (the exhausts along the side). But the background in the Mishima Sourcebook says that they source most of the techy bits from Cybertronic (this is what I love about the Megacorps in Warzone, they aren't just nations called corporations, they actually sell each other stuff!). Powersuits were kind of the next wave in Mishima battlefield technology. It was almost strictly limited to the rich though. The other poor sods had to deal with non-powered stuff.
But Warzone, like most dieselpunk (and like its cousin steampunk) are all about anachronistic levels of technology despite being trapped in a retro era. If anything dieselpunk is more about the aesthetic than it is about the underlying tech. It basically allows us to have power armour, robots and plasma cannons while still letting everything look like it came from the 1940's.
And it is explained away by a combination of Cybertronic-sourced super-tech, jury rigs of older advanced tech to make it more resistant to Dark Symmetry corruption and refining a certain level of limitations to an apex that is not normally achieved when one is allowed to advance to the next stage. For the latter especially we can kind of compare it to a lot of other "lost arts" throughout history. They are mostly lost because we found a better/cheaper/faster way of doing it by applying more technology. But back in the day when they could make use of high-technology, they achieved things with their limited tech that is quite amazing when it comes to various building techniques and use of materials. Either way, it is all just a "wizard did it" explanation to allow for retro-aesthetics and high tech junk in the same game and nothing more.
Thanks for the answers about the platoon skirmish size (although I'd personally consider it a full wargame at that point). Nice mishima renders though.
TheDungen wrote: I liked the old mishima, the Ronin look good now but the Hatamoto is kind of telling me that i will never be more into new mishima than paint up a unit of ronin for fun. Bulky power-armour always one of those things that make me bask my head against a wall (dont get me started on sm terminators), the idea is so stupid, hey we've spend the last 100+ years making all weapons and armour smaller and more mobile so of course the future is going to be really bulky and large stuff.
You're looking at the game through a wrong set of assumptions. Mutant Chronicles / Warzone is a post-apocalyptic setting, the Dark Symmetry has severely crippled mankind's technological progress.
I know i have been playing it since the 90s. Of course without electronics power armour is actually impossible. Without a computer keeping tabs of you movement its going to end snapping you bones of.
And we started making things smaller way before electronics. look at the early cannons for an example.
I dont mind hatamoto having power armour, i dont mind there being a unit of powered armoured sumo wrestlers. I mind hatamoto which i liked the way they were becoming a unit of power armoured sumo wrestlers. These are supposed the be the bes tof the best, the guys that mishima send to the venusian crusades and they look like they're squatting to take a dump.
@Roninex You keep referring to the mishima sourcebook but there were no hatamoto in the rpg.
And quite frankly there's already a company out there making asianinpired minis in battlesuits. they're called gamesworkshop and I really really hate tau. I like Mishima as martial arts and cool swords. you can keep the gundam. I prefer more jidai geki.
Well i guess I'll spend most of my time filling them with kratach rounds anyway.
How wide are the Hatamoto's shoulders? Did he get arm extensions? I like the idea and look(and would prefer helmets) but the physiology is way wrong. No human could pilot that suit, his hands would be where the elbow is and almost the elbow at the shoulder joint. Hoping the artistic drawing is a prototype of what is to come and not the final product. Otherwise neat idea, but it has a ways to go.
You're looking at the game through a wrong set of assumptions. Mutant Chronicles / Warzone is a post-apocalyptic setting, the Dark Symmetry has severely crippled mankind's technological progress.
Yep, calculating machines are more like the babbage machines of mechanical/microsteam vent nature, and that Hatamoto is likely powered by a steam making engine to presrurize the gears and such for the suit. It is a ll low end electronics/diesel-steam punk except for Cybertronics who are looked at with suspicion as to how they can haz AI and NOT be meesed with by Dark Symmetry of the Dark Soul who is making the Mutants and bringing in aliens to attack the Solar System Corporations
The cybers think they can have advance tech without the Dark Symetry corrupting it. Illian smiles and bids her time
Those Juggernauts, I like them. I won't be adding them unfortunately due to Deadzone taking a big chunk of money, but eventually I'll have them. I'm just not too keen on that odd stance the guy in front has. I also kind of wonder if there will be a cover for the operator's head like the other suit has.
Much better Juggers than the original renders. I thought those were far too blocky. These actually look like someone can wear them, even if slow. Hopefully the Hatamoto will follow suit and be a bit more ergonomically designed as well and not rip off the user's arms just above the elbow if under power.
Pledge calculator is out of beta and starting to trickle in to the in-boxes of the general population. Already placed my order and it all went quite smoothly. Man, when it is all listed out like that, it really feels like a lot of stuff. What have I done?
Miguelsan wrote: Did you guys got a confirmation email? I placed my order but got nothing and I'm wondering if something went wrong.
M.
If you didn't get your confirmation e-mail, then your order probably didn't really get placed. Especially if you didn't get a nice screen at the end of the process saying "This is your order" or something similar.
I fell asleep half way through doing my order the first time, and the login session can timeout.
per update #77
"Until May 31 2013, you will still be able to add to your pledge at the KS prices. Just email us at payment@prodos.co.uk, to let us know what you want. And if your friends want in our preorder prices on the KS will be 20% off RRP (warzonegame.com)"
I wonder when we will see anything next, it has only been a week but feels like an eternity since they last updated. Majority of my pledge is Sea Lions and Free Marines so I am going into this pretty blind.
Just a little update. We have approximately 200 people that have not completed the Pledge Manager and are concious that we had given a deadline of end of May. We have decided to remove this, so no panic! But please be aware that the later we get it the harder it will be for us to meet the deadlines. As such we will work to a first filled pledge, first served approach.
Here is a list of people we are waiting on (if you are doing yours manually or have completed it in the last 36 hours don't worry)!
Mark Melero "Muad""ib" Mattias Juhlin Regan O'Malley xyas William W. Refsland William P Redifer William Lamming William Jones wedge83pl Walecki Blazej Voodooman Vonkurgan Viktor Carlson Victoria Tyrone McElvenny Tyler Potkonicky Travis Russell Tomtom Tomasz Magosa Timothy Link Timo Neumann Tibernius Thomas Becket Escoto Thomas Andersson Theodore Alff TheAetsch TabletTop Interactive™ Synapze777 Sven Krautwald Steve Noia Steambeard Spud Tate SPM_Deke Siwook Oh simone Simon Varley Si Stratton Shyvax Sebastian Wójcicki Sean Ventura Sean McKittrick Scott Debuck S. McCole Ryan Shaw Ryan Hart Ryan Arndt Ron Boggs Robin Mellberg Robin Johnson Robert Street Robert McChesney Robert Carpenter robert RJ Rick Christian Richard-Dap Richard Bowker Remy van Vliet Raskal raffaello.b Rafael Paricio Ingles R Fuentes PsymonTheWizard Praetor pjklan Piotr Rybacki Piotr Adamiak Petri Toropainen Petr Palicka Petr Caslava Peek Pedro jose lopez gomez Pazdera Jiri Paul Stacey Paul Shipman Paul Scott Paul Pietsch Paul L Paul D. Patrick McGuire Panos Nils Svednell neekoh namemein WarzoneManiac Mykel Farnham Murray Booth Mr Ben Greenman morton weisman Mike Richardson Mike Murtha Michele Clark Michał Robert Rudzki Michal Ciemniewski Michael Zabkar Michael Wheeler Michael Nunez Michael King Michael Jacobs Michael A. Rivera maxxon Mauro Capobianco Matthias Tellschaft-Stachowski Matthew Grecar Mathias Frank Martin Ellermeier Martin Mark Taormino Mark J. Muir Mark Grehan Mark Faraker Mark Baker Mark Marius Thomassen mario Marek Jirsa Marcus Anderson marcus Marc Winrow Maledrakh maggoli Madwizz M. Kress Lukas Bedajanek Luigi Fontana Luděk Straka Luca Ruggeri Lolly Obern LJM Linus Gediminas liam potter liam cahill Lewis Wundowa Leon Sadler Lee Scott larlden Kraig Koranda Kevin Mosby Kevin Buchanan Kent Jansson Kelly Gay Justin Julian Chan Józef Łoś Joseph Burke Jonathan Steer Jonathan Matricardi Jonas Håkansson John Roberts John Leahy John Christopher Smith joel blewer Joe Beet Jerry Grace Jens Wollmertshäuser Jean-Marie Dehlinger Jay Mason-Grant Javier Alvarez de la Fuente Jarosław Motylewski Jaroslaw Godlewski Janzerker James Taylor James Lane James Keast James Hockley James Colvin Jacek Sadaj Inge Solvåg Imperator Hugh H Browne Jr Hudson D. Holger Schubert Henrik Grevstad grosjean Graham Platt Giorgio Colombo Gasparis Thodoris Gaspar Braña Lavandeira Funkychef Fredrik Vilborg Francesco Stocco Federico Mancini fabrizio capriata Eva Nordberg Eric Smith Eric Liu Eric French Eric Clinton Eric Barden Emmanuel LEFORT Elfenwahn edouard negre Duckman Dougal Cochrane Donald Tseng Dick Butkus Denis Rougé DavidMason Davide Desana David Saggers David McLachlan David Lallemand David Croft david Bockermann David B Clegg Daryl Elms Daniel Piotrowicz Daniel Conde Daniel Cassidy CrazyBaldHead Crazy Goblin Craig Morrison Connetable CmdrKiley Claudio Christopher Penman Christopher Monestero Christoph Schrage Christian Trebbien Chris Reynolds "Chris Birch Modiphius" charles whetstine Cerealkiller195 CEDRIC BOUCAUX Carl Tchoryk Carl Nygren bydalbaxter Bryce Bonzo Brian S. Roe Brett Stoner Bill Stilson Bert Kleyn Benjamin Curley Ben Weston Azazel Axel Stende Axel Klingberg Ash Are Riksaasen Andrew Taylor Andrew Murrell Andrew Dickinson Andrew Cox Andrew Andre_Hodges Andreas Brännström Anders Carlsson Amin Ibrahim Alexander Lindström Alessio Cisbani Alessio Cavatore Alan Pool Alan Frize Akira Tanaka Akesh Adrián Doyle Adam Wells accaries loris A. Wichmann A Jonson Steve B. Graylin Beaudry
And here is the process:
1. You have received an email from us sometime between now and the 15th May (Check your spam box)
2. Click on the link in the email from Warzonegame.com. It will ask you to Create an 'Account webpage' at Warzonegame.com
3. Once you have activated your account you will receive a 2nd email
4. Logon to the website, through the link in the 2nd email or just go to warzonegame.com
5. Click on the Pledge Calc. button in the Shop menu.
6. Work through your rewards, once your pledge manager is completed the Summary button on top of the pledge will become active (sum of your reward must be at least £15 below your total donation in order for the Summary buttons to appear), click on it when you are happy with your pledge to lock the cells.
7. Click on Close Pledge Order.
8. If you have increased your pledge from its initial amount on the pledge manager Thank you. You will be directed to a pay now button to pay the extra via paypal
9. You will receive a 3rd email with your order number, double check it. In case of any issues, please send an email to service@prodos.co.uk, referring your order number
I've just been informed of this issue and since you've kicked the person in question, Rob Scott from the group before any resolution could be reached.
When it became obvious after A MONTH OF ZERO CONTACT from Prodos Games Ltd., there was no interest in assisting Rob Scott to amend his issues with the pledge calculator, confirmation of pledge and he sent a request to Prodos and received an email of unfiltered bile.
If you won't explain it to him directly through emails Facebook and you have 'kicked and banned' him from this group as a means to minimise the presumed 'bad press' the least you can do is explain why you are charging from his 'Brotherhood Pledge' of £348
8.5% + VAT to KS = £35.50
Handling charge 5% + VAT= £20.88
10% Tax on the booked sale = £34.8
Leaving the amount £256.82
Mr. Scott does not reside in a VAT participating countries (Australia) Kickstarter. You are not required to fulfill the reward (obviously) carving £91.18 off the top by either making up or pushing forward VAT is rather excessive and only adds insult to injury.
In case you didn't know, the lesser amount you advised would be refunded has NOT been returned and further messages have been ignored.
I don't expect a reply - It' would be lovely if you would. Not here obviously but I hear Rob is rather anxious to hear from you.
'Decidedly unapologetic Email' provided below:-
Dear Mr. Scott
We are disappointed that you have chosen to let our KS down by pulling your
pledge at this late date. For future reference please be informed KS is not
a forward order service, instead it is a way for new and young companies to
get the support of those that want to see the project succeed. As a thank
you for that the small and young company gifts a thank you.
Regarding your 'Refund' or more precisely Support/Pledge Cancellation:
Total 'Pledge': £348
The following costs have occured:
8.5% + VAT to KS = £35.50
Handling charge 5% + VAT= £20.88
10% Tax on the booked sale = £34.8
Leaving you with: £256.82
An international bank transfer will cost another £30
Or please send your paypal email.
After pledging is over Prodos has to hand Amazon and Kickstarter their cut on top of other taxes they need to pay. This is why it is important to cancel before this happens. Cancelling after the fact leaves Prodos footing the bill for a lot of charges. This is why KS terms tend to only suggest refunds are forthcoming only if the project cannot be delivered. Refunding any money at all, after pledges are done and over with is kind of rare. That Prodos are even considering doing a partial refund is good on their part, as they have no legal compunction to do so under the KS terms.
I had troubles with the pledge manager and Prodos were quick to reply and fix my issues. I can only think that there is either more to this story than is being let on or there was some other technical hiccup that prevented communication from reaching through. But if this was an issue of someone throwing a hissy post-KS, then there isn't much that can be done. Prodos has already had to pay Amazon, Kickstarter and probably even Paradox a cut of the money (as was their legal obligation). Unless circumstances arise and Warzone can't be delivered (which seems less than likely as books/pdfs will be heading out this month) then a backer looking for a refund doesn't have much to stand on.
Either way, I contacted service@prodos.co.uk and was all set and ready to go after a bit of back and forth with Mark. So I don't see why there would be an issue unless something else is going on.
Without more information, I find it hard to believe they'd boot anyone without contact.
I got all those emails about making sure my pledge was in. If you choose to ignore them (or fail to check your spam filter), then you have no one to blame but yourself.
I've just been informed of this issue and since you've kicked the person in question, Rob Scott from the group before any resolution could be reached.
*SNIP*
I'm having trouble following your post... I'm not sure if it's just a copy/paste from somewhere else like KS comments or if you're Rob Scott and you're talking about yourself in the third person.
1 we are in the Uk 2 it was not Zero contact
3 last email from me to him was a question. Surely an answer must be waited for be fore the process continues
3. Rob is using a non existent reason to say he is changing his mind. Blaming a hiccup on our side, while we handle 987 people's pledge
5 it's not always clear what he wants or is saying. You've all had the pleasure of his posts
6 it's been the WE.
He will get his response when I have got out of bed (it's 0650 on Mon morning here). Assuming he has answered my questions.
Interestingly he chooses to share an aspect of our 30 to 40 emails over the last month!
and
Niamh, just for your information, Im sure Rob didn't intend to give you incorrect information. We were first aware of a problem on the 18 May, we responded and had comments back from him on the 28th and 5th June (in 3 emails). Previous to this Rob has received a total of 8-10 emails from either me via FB messaging (in conversation form) or on KS and innumerable responses from us on this forum. I agree 10 days from first 'issue' to our email is not great, but as said 950+ pledges to manage may do that. All 5 of the emails up to the one kindly shared here to Mr. Scott from us included apologies from us about the delay. It was clear that they were no longer wanted, so from that point we have been official and handled his request in the way we understood he wished. Please don't hold it against him that he has given you incorrect information to share here.
And the rather immature reply of the lady AmylNitrate:
The language thing - He speaks english as a first language I only assume english is yours given you live in england. I understand him perfectly but it seems since your on the internet you could do a quick google search for the hard words dictionaries, thesaurii evens horologicons as required make use of them.
The Contact thing - You have to admit the pledge calculator was messed up and trying to get into contact with you lot is mission impossible, seriously. Show me a person that says delays don't cause concern and I'll show you a liar.
Being left out in the cold with £300+ floating in limbo with no info does that and if you were so right why don't we see 486 likes on your posts instead of 5 and 481 Abstentions.
I'll show myself out thanks, do what you want with little game - I for one will wait for actual Warzone or even the miniature rules for the 3rd Ed. RPG not this pretender to the throne/card game. LOL
Why is it that when people that try to insult other people and their grasp of language they often end up making boneheaded mistakes themselves when doing so?
Alpharius wrote: Why is it that when people that try to insult other people and their grasp of language they often end up making boneheaded mistakes themselves when doing so?
For the information of the people here. We have refunded Mr Scott via paypal, once he confirmed this was his preferred route to payment. We have also directed him to the right routes to see whether KS will refund. But as we are talking over 55 days since the pledges were collected I am not sure they will.
We are sorry that Mr Scott and his girlfriend have acted in this manner and mis-understood the concept of KS so much. Equally we are disappointed that they have tried to mislead here and elsewhere with mis-, half- and non-truths. We will continue to produce the game we always intended, with the quality and integrity we have always intended.
They used alternating activation in the beta rules and I don't think that has gone away.
As it stands, the stats seem to be in the ranges seen in 1st Edition (some increased to keep pace with the lower action economy in this version). The action system and card mechanics are the biggest change. Models have two actions base now (like 2nd Edition Chronopia) and you can't double up on actions anymore (though there are actions that allow you to do basically the same thing but with a finer degree of balance compared to being able to double or triple-up on your actions (so aim is actually worth a damn this time!). The card mechanics add a bit of a fog of war to things and allow for there to be double-blind bluffs in play (which I think is great for creating unique play-states every game). The card mechanics as well as unit abilities run on a resource system (kind of like command points in other games). Your army's commander gives a number of resources depending on their rules and each squad leader adds one to the pool. From there you can spend resources to activate unit abilities, equipment or to play out cards (which can be tactics, strategies or special equipment). These resources refresh every round and the economy of them can be pretty important if used wisely.
Beyond that, close combat has seen an overhaul in terms of options and it feels kind of Warmachine-like in terms of special actions (as well as the way combat timing is handled). Out of all the editions, I like the CC mechanics in this one the best since they manage to be both fast and quite evocative (having a Razide plow through a squad, flinging them aside like ragdolls, for example).
Characters are back to being a bit more pulpy and heroic (ala 1st Edition) but with most of the worst excesses curbed (at least from what we have seen so far). There is also talk of a character customization system, so people that like personalizing their heroes (1st Edition WZ players and any edition of 40k player) will probably enjoy this.
As for the latest spoilers on game mechanics, things are looking pretty interesting. Units appear to have active and passive abilities (the former cost resources to activate) and this ranges from things like the lightly armoured Chasseurs having a stealth-field generator they can plonk down to things like the Razide being able to bound over terrain when it charges. Some really awesome stuff in there (the Everasseur even has a proper 2-mode plasma cannon just like the Mutant Chronicles version of the Gehenna Puker!).
There are some play reviews posted by the lucky gits that got to play demo games at the Grumpy Old Wargamer con (along with photos of painted armies). Can't wait till the end of the month when we get the PDFs (and some will be getting their books shipped out, I presume, if that is all they ordered).
nice to see a new figure. I really can't wait to get my hands on those lovely Cybertronic, Capital, and Bauhaus figures I ordered. I hope they start shipping by the end of the month.
It'd be kind of nice to see some renders of the Mishima stuff though. I'm really curious to see what kind of head and weapon options the Hatamato suits get.
Oh yeah, I've been meaning to ask, why I was going through the pledge calculator, I saw an item listed I don't remember seeing or hearing about before. It was a Capital Airborne unit upgrade. Anyone know what that set actually is? I'm quite certain it was different from the infantry upgrade set that had the alternate weapons for the starting factions.
Next to the Eradicator and Banshees, those are hands down the best renders you did. Whoever made those, keep him even if you have to sacrifice the blood of virgins to do so.
Capitol infantry are very nice. I got really excited when I saw the Bauhaus updates that paid homage to the originals' style but modernized it but was subsequently disappointed with how retro the capitol stuff show (purple sharks, infantry, etc) was in comparison. These new versions are a hell of an improvement and (like the Bauhaus stuff) do both modern styling and classic warzone inspiration in one set of models.
Loved the original renders, but these ones just look fantastic. They actually take a lot of inspiration from the 1st Edition art (the helmet especially) while not looking too dated. They look fantastic. Another one of those minis that makes me wish I had bought in for a fourth faction. May have to pick some Cap stuff up down the line just for the hell of it.
Has there been any word on a release date yet? I didn't back the KS because I was waiting for retail and apparently one of the updates, which I can't see, has info regarding that and I've not seen it posted anywhere.
From what I gathered, the rulebook will be ready to ship by the end of the month (as will the PDF). Those orders that did not contain minis will be sent out at this time (and backers will get the PDF). From there it is basically going to be a rolling release as they finish things up. They are already in to resin production (a few shots of multiple troop sprues going around; so no longer prototypes). We know they are doing plastics through Renedra, so no clue on how all that is going (Renedra used to have timeline issues, but with the industry getting a lot broader in terms of plastics, their backlog may not be as intense).
I'm still expecting a few months past the end of June, myself, but shots of the production minis show that they are definitely getting things done. The first wave of stuff will mostly depend on how fast Renedra will be with the plastics since Prodos seem to have a handle on the resin production. From there wave 2 shouldn't be as bad (though it contains all the large kits which may present their own issues when going to production).
Either way by the end of this month or early next month, backers should be able to play some proxy games to keep us busy while we wait.
Wait. These new renders aren't supose to replace the standard infantry renders we all ready got? I thought this wad a new unit but some of the comments sound otherwise. Abit disaponted if this is the look they are going for instead. I liked the orginals.
I am with you Lockark, I put the other Light infantry guys in my lists because I loved the look and knew they would be in every game. While I like the upgrade pack, the new standard heads arent near as nice and make me want to ask how to switch my selection for the kickstarter. The new heads look like roman helms. Blah.
Lockark wrote: Wait. These new renders aren't supose to replace the standard infantry renders we all ready got? I thought this wad a new unit but some of the comments sound otherwise. Abit disaponted if this is the look they are going for instead. I liked the orginals.
Unfortunately yes. Due to some technical issue the first renders had to be dropped and the current ones drafted. Such a pity because I totally jumped into Capitol thanks to those figures :( Let's hope the other renders have a smoother translation to plastic
M.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Forgot to say that I'm in love with the Crucifier and Golgotha.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Did I hear correctly, that they are going with Renedra? Does this mean the models will be plastic (the good kind of plastic)?
Not everything, just the basic troops of each faction (it was either the £60k or £70k stretch goal, can't recall now). So Hussars, Chasseurs (not the armoured ones), Undead Legionnaires, Capitol Light Infantry, and Samurai. If it is the basic trooper in the starter set, then it is in hard plastic (the rest of the contents will be resin).
Everything else is resin. Which is why, in all of those production shots, you will not see any of the basic troops. I can't remember the update it came in but they did announce after shopping around that the hard plastic would be done in styrene and that they had gone with Renedra for it.
And those Venusian Rangers continue looking fantastic. They will be a joy to paint.
This one's kinda funny, because it could serve as a good "before/after" pic of their "progress" during the Kickstarter.
Left: "We're going to make 'realistic' female heroes, no triple D's and boob armor for our girls. Sorry guys."
Right: "Eh, feth it, here's some chick with huge tits and tight-fighting armor so you can paint her naked if you really wanted to. We need the money. Also, big goofy pauldrons because we just can't let that die."
Still plan on buying into this game, just being an donkey-cave. I suppose there's always room for both types, I'll just buy what I like and bitch endlessly about ignore what I don't.
Yeah, she seems to have become a little more... erm, well-endowed since we saw the renders.
The original render certainly wasn't without curves but it seems she has had some work done.
Oh well, can't win 'em all. Maybe I can work a conversion using the EM bodies. Or get a second Angelika (who looks fan-freaking-tastic) and do a kitbash.
At least she isn't as bad as the original EM concepts. Boobplate is a step up from catsuit (a small step...), and unlike a lot of female minis she is wearing actual boots. So, like a more modest Red Sonja than a Deja Thoris.
*still hoping it is the angle of the shot*
Ah well, the resculpted EM and Angelika won them a lot of points in my eyes. Hopefully Val ends up becoming the odd sculpt out as time goes on.
Can't wait to get my factions. I am hoping to start running demos for the lfg I am temporarily near. The pricing of the models are comparable to other popular game lines, are highly detailed compared to the old renditions, and the rules feel like they flow better than before.
My first experience with this universe was with the board game: Siege of the Citadel (I still own that box) and the skirmish spinoff(s). Years later, while I was in college, a buddy of mine told me about the mmo that was being developed and I got excited, then found out about the miniatures game!
Sadly, the game was on the downswing at the time, and all the geeks at my college were big into 40k.
I found out about the kickstarter after I had plunked down $300+ on another kickstarter and began kicking myself mentally. Oh well. Cash flow is good in my new k of the woods, so I now havea small two faction mmodist coming to my house soon.
I am glad this game is making another appearance. It had a huge impact in my life, causing me to become a hybrid of awesome nerd and socialite-like teen. It even got a few others in each of my circles to cross over and have fun!
This guys is quite possibly better than the Capitol light infantry. The only thing I could nitpick about would be the trigger finger. Other than that, a brilliant render that's almost exactly in line with what I wanted to see for Mishima.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Did I hear correctly, that they are going with Renedra? Does this mean the models will be plastic (the good kind of plastic)?
Not everything, just the basic troops of each faction (it was either the £60k or £70k stretch goal, can't recall now). So Hussars, Chasseurs (not the armoured ones), Undead Legionnaires, Capitol Light Infantry, and Samurai.
Oh, is that all?
*twitch*
*twitch*
*squeeeeeeeee*
Excuse me.
And when is this meager selection of undesirable products available for retail purchase? I ask purely out of intellectual curiosity, of course.
Well the roadmap and PDF are out now. Overall, I have to say they are making good progress (most minis seem to be slated for the end of July) despite things like one of their sculptors running off and the 3D printer the bed (and holy crap, a flood at their printers!). But it is nice to see they are forging ahead and making fairly good time despite the troubles.
Now, of to devour the basic rules PDF (which looks damn good so far).
I wonder if their sculptor problems was getting 'animator style' 3D files which are a core shape with textures over the top and not something suitable for 3D printing
It would explain why they were able to show stuff that they now can't use
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: I wonder if their sculptor problems was getting 'animator style' 3D files which are a core shape with textures over the top and not something suitable for 3D printing
It would explain why they were able to show stuff that they now can't use
Dunno about that. Every Prodos render preview I saw so far was a solid mesh, all of them either from Zbrush or Mudbox. I'm guessing someone simply didn't deliver the final meshes or something.
Also, planning a summer in the Czech Republic? Better bring a pontoon. I live just north of the Czech/Polish border and when we get the leftovers of the clouds that crawl over the mountains, it's like a goddamn tropical rain season. Hard to imagine what's it like on the south side if you haven't seen it with your own eyes.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: I wonder if their sculptor problems was getting 'animator style' 3D files which are a core shape with textures over the top and not something suitable for 3D printing
It would explain why they were able to show stuff that they now can't use
Dunno about that. Every Prodos render preview I saw so far was a solid mesh, all of them either from Zbrush or Mudbox. I'm guessing someone simply didn't deliver the final meshes or something.
Also, planning a summer in the Czech Republic? Better bring a pontoon. I live just north of the Czech/Polish border and when we get the leftovers of the clouds that crawl over the mountains, it's like a goddamn tropical rain season. Hard to imagine what's it like on the south side if you haven't seen it with your own eyes.
... the sculpts/renders where not printable... mesh all over the places.. sculpts where not watertight... "empty" shells ... and the creator was claiming that we've commissioned 3D model not 3D model to 3D print ... on top of that, the "artist" was not interested in correcting it, but, thanks to our skilled sculptors we've managed fix it, but that was/is time consuming exercise
Examples of sculpts we have been given as "finish" product.
That is possibly the shittiest decimation I've ever seen. And on a relatively simple element too.
I'm not sure how one could feth up a sculpt so bad. I mean, it would probably take 15 minutes to get a good, clean low poly to sculpt on. Instead it looks like he went with an extraction? Bizarre.
With every new bit of Mishima art, I'm wishing I'd grabbed some of their stuff. Still hoping that the Hatamoto's have helmets. Once these hit retail and if they get a US distributor, I'll probably grab some Mishima.
warboss wrote: The models do look quite nice but the thrash metal German counting is a bit odd. Are Venusian Rangers known for their arithmetic skills?
Well, assuming it wasn't coincidental, I'm assuming it's Bahaus=Germans so German industrial metal is somewhat fitting.
Expect an update to the rules PDF at somepoint. A kindly gentleman at my FLGS went through the rules and found all kinds of interesting errors/fixes. He's been on the Warzone bandwagon since the original iteration.
Those words, they fit together and make a sentence... but I cannot parse them.
I have plenty of the old ones. But they make me shudder each time I look at them. They look like Nagash had an illegitimate child with a 90's shoulder pad factory on top of a bearskin rug (that they now don in memory of the deed).
The new ones look smooth, stylish and I am actually surprised at how natural the poses look (love the firing one, too few minis actually get modelled firing their guns). I love how versatile they are looking as well, can't wait to see the alternate pieces for the kit (though I am loving the basic ones here; they will also make an excellent generic special forces squad for any of the lesser Guard Orders).
I think the helmets are too necronish for me and that could be my issue with them, too different from the original masks. To be honest I started my pledge thinking about getting Bauhaus but as the KS went on I felt that Bauhaus basic unit miniatures were worse than Capitol and Brotherhood equivalents so at ordering time I dropped all Bauhaus units in exchange for Capitol ones leaving just the heroes.
Just remember, they also come with alternate heads that are the "classic" design as well. They just haven't been shown in the flesh (so to speak). But old-school jawless masks were shown in renders and Prodos did confirm there would be alternate heads in there. So everyone should be happy.
I'm personally glad that multiple styles of skull-mask/death's head are available since the skull is used as the generic cresthelm on most Bauhaus special forces (it is the standard mask that comes with Guardsman armour). So having one that is a more customized version and one that is "stock" is a nice touch.
But unless Prodos have changed their toon, the below renders are still a go to my knowledge:
I know, I know, it's just when I saw those renders and compared them against the Capitol and Brotherhood ones I felt they were lacking. I'm sad that the uber cool Capitol grunts had to be changed but the Banshees and Mortificators look promising.
Miguelsan wrote: I know, I know, it's just when I saw those renders and compared them against the Capitol and Brotherhood ones I felt they were lacking.
Possibly because they were sort of designed by committee. That never helps.
Eh, definitely an "eye of the beholder" deal here. I love the design. Reminds me a lot of my favourite Void minis back in the day. Nice and clean, not a ton of busy details. They should paint up really nicely and be able to accept anything from a nice, clean block-colour paint job to a more intricate camo design without losing out on all the details a busier model may have.
I think they mesh well with Bauhaus's cleaner lines and smoother look. But I can see why some might like the other stuff more, so to each their own.
But speaking of Bauhaus, the rules for them have dropped and they definitely spoil some interesting new bits about force design. Hopefully the Cyber and DL lists are getting a similar system added on, because tying sets of unit upgrades to the style of the commander is a nice touch.
I'll definitely be fielding a lot of Steiner-based V-Ranger forces.
And I continue to be impressed by the way they are translating a unit's flavour in to game mechanics. These V-Rangers are the first ones that have felt like a crack commando team. Their stats are in the right range that they feel elite and their rules make them feel like a force designed to strike at the enemy's heart through the toughest terrain imaginable.
Oh, and Juggernauts kool-aid man through walls when assaulting. That manages to check off all the boxes of cool flavour, interesting design and freaking hilarious in play. I may have to pick more of those up.
I suppose now is as good a time as any to ask, but what exactly is the "official" color scheme for the Bauhaus troops? All I can remember was that they had white armor plates and that's pretty much it.
They have shown up in blue, blue-grey or straight grey in the past. Though this changes up a lot in art (depends on the unit as well, Rangers have been shown in white as well as camo schemes). So go crazy.
Likely the colors will be dependent on terrain in almost all cases with most armies(exception being Dark Legion who doesnt care(either by lack of intelligence or ego)). Typically you see the white or light grey armored troopers in the snow and green or mottled in the jungle. There is likely a set scheme for non hostile garrisson troops, kind of like how our own militaries use a generic most common terrain camo in the real world(aside from the US navy who wore blue and black camo, which never made sense to me)
Ronin_eX wrote: They look like Nagash had an illegitimate child with a 90's shoulder pad factory on top of a bearskin rug (that they now don in memory of the deed).
Even the Japanese samurai families in WW2 wore khaki uniforms to blend into the terrain better and not stick out as much regardless of their dress uniforms sitting in a closet at home.
Wow, Capitol and Mishima are really looking great. You guys have done leaps and bounds better with them than with Bauhaus, Dark Legion of the Brotherhood, in my opinion.
@Prodos, a few things:
Please, please, please get still of these figures up. Preferably with a grey primer coat, and somewhat larger than the other stills that have been out.
The rotating video doesn't show a terrible lot of detail, but it could with a little re-thinking. Shoot one model at a time (with a grey primer coat) against a neutral background (but not too close to the primer color). Use a tripod. You can get mini-tripods for very little money on eBay if needs be. Put your lights behind the camera and diffuse them (lots of tutorials online).
The music, while good, is a distraction to the videos (not to mention bloating the file size).
That's it for the criticism.
Cpt. Henry Thomas might be my new favorite Warzone figure, replacing the Mishima samurai shown recently. He has a very Gears of War vibe, and I like it.
Who is the other guy with Mitch and the dog on the spinning dais? Is that a Free Marine? He's got the whole space vietnam trooper ala Aliens vibe going and I like it.
edit: Nevermind, it's Henry Thomas and he's apparently airborne. The title is cut off both in the mini video window above and at the main youtube title but it's in the descripion there.
warboss wrote: Who is the other guy with Mitch and the dog on the spinning dais? Is that a Free Marine? He's got the whole space vietnam trooper ala Aliens vibe going and I like it.
The video title mentions Cpt. Henry Thomas, and I assumed that was him. He looks Gears of War-ish to me, and I like him a lot too.
Henry was one of the backer created figures. I'm rather glad I got him. I just dread having to paint his eyes because I'll probably ruin a great looking figure.
The Sea Lions look really cool. I wish that render had been available when I was doing the survey. They look like sci-fi Navy Seals, which I'm sure is the point.
Alpharius wrote: Timing was wrong for me on this Kickstarter - and how I wish it wasn't!
I'm looking forward to picking up a lot of stuff once it hits retail...
Same here but I'd add that the price wasn't right personally either. Either way, the stuff is looking quite nice since the campaign ended. Is the warzone stuff coming out in waves or all at once to retail?
Wow, great Sea Lions. After the disappointment of the light infantry, these have me happy I got Capital. Hopefully they will translate well into models and not change the artwork again(I understand why they did it before but it doesnt make me happy since I ordered based on the older ones and the new ones do not look near as good(light infantry)). They do have some massive feet though. Those boot are ginormous.
To me the first thing that pops into my mind when looking at the "new" Orca is ToysRus. It looks like something i could find there. I dont get why the long arm for the missile pod.
It looks a bit silly like the old one did.
To bad they didnt stick with the concept art of it they showed that was excellent! I dont really see the point of showing concept art of something and then having it looking nothing like it. Only thing that that is similar with the concept is that it has two legs, three guns and a missile pod.
But its not like the first time they have done it so i really dont put much faith in their concepts more than its a pretty picture.
Is this design for the Orca that different from the concept art? It looked pretty much the same to me. I really like it though. My only complaint about it would be the exposed rivets on the front section. I understand this is diesel punk and all and that calls for rivets, but I just don't like them here and they don't really mesh all that well with the high tech aesthetic the rest of it has. If I got one, I'd sand them off. Otherwise, that thing is pretty damn cool.
Here is the concept art for it.
There really isnt much that looks the same, legs are angled different, feet are different, armor on the legs are different, torso changed shape, the hardpoints for the "arm" weapons changed. Instead of it being the main body that curves out it just looks like they did the main body and stuck some weapons to it. The lower gun mount got Leman russed, huge barrel in a tiny turret that would impossibly fit the gun. Heck even the missile pod changed from four missiles to three...
I only see minor differences, the final one is a little higher, the body a little more rounded, as you pointed out the middle launcher is a bit further from the body and the weapons a bit coarser. About what you'd expect as differences between an artwork and mini.
No offence not even I can't complain about that and I'm really good at complaining, but my only though when i saw the orc was "why does the capitol stuff look so much more awesomely diselpunk?"
I didnt notice there was a difference until the two are side by side. I like the newer one. For once the render is better than the concept art. I do think if its possible when assembling I will mount the missile pod up and down and not sideways. Now that someone brought it to my attention it does look wonky.
Alpharius wrote: Are the rules not going to be available via a free PDF then?
Oh sorry,
I thought you'd backed at a low level like me to get access to the PDFs (I'm only getting a the purple sharks & vorrieter models, so the rules pdf were a mjorr reason for me backing)
there's certainly no free pdf around yet, but I'm not sure what their plans are for the future
TheDungen wrote: I only see minor differences, the final one is a little higher, the body a little more rounded, as you pointed out the middle launcher is a bit further from the body and the weapons a bit coarser. About what you'd expect as differences between an artwork and mini.
Interesting transition from concept to 3D render. Legs in the concept are folded into an almost completely closed position, while the render legs are opened up up so it sits considerably higher. Biggest difference I see is the angle of the body: render body is horizontal while the concept body is angled down to the front and looks much better to me. Hopefully it will be possible to angle the body down like the concept.
Other noticeable difference is the size. The render is much larger in proportion to the gunner than the concept. This thing is BIG. Looks like the model will be around 5" tall.
I agree that it looks a lot better then the old one. But to be honest, the old one looked like a dog turd, and that's me being nice about it.
TheDungen wrote: I
About what you'd expect as differences between an artwork and mini.
Not if they put it up as a pick of the product in their online shop and sell it as that, that is more like false/misleading advertising and i for one would be pissed if i bought something and when i got it it didn't look like the thing i ordered.
Aesthetically there is a big difference between the pic and the render.
I guess im spoiled by Curvus belli Infinity where showed concept = actual miniature, as it should be (even in 3D).
Well for a start as the big stuff is going to be resin the original thin gun barrels were never going to work
(and probably wouldn't have worked even in metal)
I'd imagine the 'arms' have been introduced to make multipart casting easier, if they do a socket in the body and 'pin' in the arms any variation/issues with the end of the arms will not matter much
If they used the original image they could either go with a single piece body (needs a big mould), or try and make a joint across a complex curved shape, which is a lot more sensitive to minor casting issues (and resin warping a bit in transit as often happens)
Not sure why the leg change though.. maybe they just thought it looked cooler, maybe it's to give an illusion of bulk to something a bit smaller (maybe?) bodywise, and less volume does make it cheaper to cast ?
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:Well for a start as the big stuff is going to be resin the original thin gun barrels were never going to work
The original thin gun barrels like the gunner's, er, gun still has? Those gun barrels?
I'd imagine the 'arms' have been introduced to make multipart casting easier, if they do a socket in the body and 'pin' in the arms any variation/issues with the end of the arms will not matter much...If they used the original image they could either go with a single piece body (needs a big mould), or try and make a joint across a complex curved shape, which is a lot more sensitive to minor casting issues (and resin warping a bit in transit as often happens)
If the entire arms/shoulders were to fit into recesses on the body rather than against it as I believe you're suggesting then fit issues would be easy to fix, so technical issues don't explain that change either.
Bubbalicious wrote: Aesthetically there is a big difference between the pic and the render.
Interestingly, it's the same difference that plagues the Purple Shark: both are high-tech and sleek in the concept art, with nods to WWII aircraft – the B-17 for the Orca and the P-40 for the Shark – but the models are for the most part blocky and crude, almost steampunk, with simpler profiles and great thick ill-fitting metal planks fastening with huge chunky rivets. The aesthetic of the front of the Orca doesn't match that of the rear*, let alone the faction.
* What can I say, that V8 badonkadonk is a thing of beauty.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Did they contract the Deadzone Plague? Their torsos look a little long.
Other than that, great!
Think it depends on how you visulise the body inside. These were made up from a human sized body, but the armour continues up to well above the shoulder, which may be why youve got a sense of torso extension
They look good, again, better than the concept art. Hopefully with various heads so we can give them all helms. Why do they have key boards under their shoulder pauldrons?
the bed (and holy crap, a flood at their printers!). But it is nice to see they are forging ahead and making fairly good time despite the troubles.
