Mad4Minis wrote: Id like to see a new version of Stahler and his carcass armor mode.
+1
I just love all the characters from the Mutant Chronicles comic book.
Not just the comic, they had a miniature of him for the game, came with both modes. I just ordered one from a place in Ireland, might be a recast, but seems they have a good bunch of the old Warzone miniatures.
Prince August is probably who you mean. I think they just had a bunch of stock left over (some of my blisters from 'em were still in Target Games branded boxes). When Excelsior died, they became the go-to shop for all of us old Warzone fanatics.
I grabbed all of my Vulcan Kapitan (or Viktor) suits from them. They seem to get new stock in from time to time, but in reality it just means they have gone through their pile of loose metal minis and found some more stuff.
But the fall of Target left a bunch of Warzone stuff dead on the shelves. I can still grab some from the bargain bins in two LGSs in town (but they are all of the ones I wouldn't touch with someone else's 10' pole, like the old Great Grey). The only oddity about them (and usually what causes people to wonder) is that they are a casting supply place.
I'm in the same spot than you Ronin, too much stuff to get. I'm so glad that I got an extra box at cartel level because after two meh releases Prodos has managed to nail it (for me) with Golgotha, the Scorpion and the necro figure.
I really like Golgotha and after one night of sleep to make up my mind I say the scorpion is amazing! Would like to see more pics of different angles from the necroguy. But it seems to be pormising.
This will be an expensive project...
They are almost too skully. A quick look would have people confused with Cybertronic. I want to see some Capital renders before I make up my mind on which starter boxes. Right now its a close tie between Capital and Bahaus. Already planning on Cyber. It would be really nice if maybe a hint at Imperial trenchers or Blood Berets made an appearance. They are who I am really interested in.
I'm realy close to upping my pledge from The Five to Cartel. I'm just waiting on the Captiol Renders and the Pretorians to decide if I'm going to do Captiol or Dark Legion as my 2nd army after Bauhaus.
Kanluwen wrote: I'm not big on "The Mutant Chronicles" lore.
Can someone explain why Venusian Rangers have skull masks?
The skull masks are worn because it makes them look bad ass. No real reason beyond that (and the skull mask is actually a fairly standard motif that they popularized enough that other special forces units tend to default to it). Bauhaus also has noble house specific Guard Orders that where "crest helms" with animal iconography on them (units are also named accordingly: Order of the Wolf, Order of the Bear, Order of the Spider, Order of the Dragon, etc.). So the skull makes a good default for units with no specific noble leaning (and even some of the poorer noble houses will use it if they can't afford custom crest helms).
So yeah, the skull masks are to inspire terror due to overdose of badassitude.
Extras Add-On Packs and Dice for Capitol Update #47 · Apr 1, 2013 · 15 comments
These special Extra add-on packs are only available on Kickstarter. Some parts will be available on the plastic sprues (These will be resin), such as legion shoulder pads, other things may be offered seperately as upgrade packs in the future (walker arm variants). Whereas other parts of the set may not be released again (e.g. head variants)
As with the other special dice, the capitol ones will be included in the first run of the appropriate starter sets and for a limited time as an add-on. Each design will be limited to 2000 dice. Once they have gone they've gone!
Definitely in for one each of the Cyber and Bauhaus packs. ARG-17's were on so few units during the last few iterations of Warzone that it will be nice to have them to spice my units up a bit (and they look great to boot; love that drum mag on them!). And two Vulcan arms was a surprise but that should make the kit very flexible for magnetizing-freaks out there. And since I'm grabbing three Cuirassiers it will be nice to have some bits to spice them up.
Pretty good packs overall. 2-3 heavy weapon swaps, a couple of unique heads, a weapon swap or two for big units and a little extra depending on the faction (like sword and board options for BHood, the extra Vulcan arm on Bauhaus, etc.).
Should help alleviate some of the sameness of the units out of the gate.
Nah, the Nazgaroth is really just that blocky and odd.
It always made the transition to 3D kind of poorly because it had so little detail along the front edges not shown in the first art pieces. The side-on version is hard to judge since it has no sense of scale and gives you no idea what it looks like outside of the side profile. But if you look at Bonner's rendition then the render is largely spot on. But a lot of people were baying for the classic Nazgaroth. I personally prefer the weapon Prodos made up for it, looks a lot nastier and more like a piece of necro-tech. But hey, people got their classic Nazgaroth and those who want something else can use the weapon it comes with.
Being the Warzone traditionalist that I am, I tend to like the old Nazgaroth, but it makes sense to me that Necrotech would be far from standardized. Same basic operational parameters and functions, but it is grown in vats and/or frankensteined together from spare bits of organic material, so there is the possibility that a kratach or nazgaroth made in Alakhai's citadel could be very different from one made in Golgatha's or Saladin's.
Just my two cents (or pence, depending on the audience)...
Actually, I think the non-standardized look of DL weapons is written in to the fluff (can't remember if it is in the Nazgaroth or Kratach description though, somewhere in the Algaroth sourcebook though). Each one is supposed to be a bit different. It's what always gives me a chuckle whenever someone talks about the "classic" this or that in Dark Legion weaponry. Having a motley assortment of weapons would actually be closer to written fluff than the factory-default we tended to see. But the written fluff and the art rarely agreed on anything (and seldom even with themselves!).
Legion plastic = undead Legionnaires: 3-5 shoulder pads (as we can fit on) and 1Valcheck
I also copy-paste a dialogue from their KS page (between me and Prodos' representative) that might be of interest to the people here:
@Prodos: Without wanting to sound greedy (since I have received lots of flakk for expressing this opinion before and among other things I have been even accused to be a freebie-hunter and other absurd things) I was under the impression (based on what you had posted here before), that after the turn to plastic we would have gotten some more extra bits in the boxes.
Prodos:you asked me what was repeated in the weapons add ons and the plastic sprue. I answered that question. Can you give me some suggestion as to what else you feel should be included in the the plastic sprues. Remember for the 5 sprues in question we are going to be spending well over £50k, BTW. You are getting 5 multipart models with 6 guns including a heavy, shoulder pads for legion, and many head variants (or at least more heads than each need). Weve offered different variants for the oldschool and spend £1000s redesigning models. Some units as appropriate (Hussars) come also with backpacks. And all this on KS for less than £2.28/model
I repeat that my IMPRESSION (based solely on the fact that the answer we were given when we were asking "what the change from resin to plastic will bring?", was "extra bits (plural)") was that there would be more bits for each box. E.g. 2 Heavy Weapons for the boxes that get one and probably an extra "officer's" head.
I am not questioning the fact that the price per model is great or the size of your expenses, etc. I just said that I was under the IMPRESSION that this change of materials would have brought more than 1 extra bit per plastic box (again this was an assumption I made based on your answers). If my impression was wrong, then well...
Prodos:We will get onto the sprues what we can as extra bits.
Point taken Ronin. Thanks for posting the pics. Looking at the highlights and shadows on the original illustration however, I would submit that the cross sectional profile is not rectangular, but rather round or oval. The way the highlights end halfway down the side of the weapon and the shadows begin at the same place is indicative of a rounded, not a slab sided profile. Something like this perhaps: (_), or this: 0. The profile of the detail around the muzzles would look like this: (). Note that the area above the trigger and grip, which would be flatter, does have the same highlights as the other parts of the weapon. An oval profile would make the blades at the front of the weapon into actual blades, not the 3D detail that Bonner turned them into.
Ronin_eX wrote: Nah, the Nazgaroth is really just that blocky and odd.
It always made the transition to 3D kind of poorly because it had so little detail along the front edges not shown in the first art pieces. The side-on version is hard to judge since it has no sense of scale and gives you no idea what it looks like outside of the side profile. But if you look at Bonner's rendition then the render is largely spot on. But a lot of people were baying for the classic Nazgaroth. I personally prefer the weapon Prodos made up for it, looks a lot nastier and more like a piece of necro-tech. But hey, people got their classic Nazgaroth and those who want something else can use the weapon it comes with.
plastictrees wrote: Is there a sweet spot here? Some of this stuff is starting to gt hard to ignore.
That should help you make your choice. =)
And remeber, you can trade in item's worth, to get other add ones. So for example dropping a T-shirt gives you 11 pounds, well dropping a starter box is 30 pounds.
You can use this towords other add ones.
Dark Legion for International backers (Doom trooper and free hero), and The Cartel for everyone (Same as Dark legion, plus 3 heros and +1 starter box). IMHO thows two stand out as some of the best choices/bang for your buck.
plastictrees wrote: Is there a sweet spot here? Some of this stuff is starting to gt hard to ignore.
The new sweat spot is however much you are considering spending between Razide and The Five Heroes level (which, to be fair, is like a £100 gap ). If I had to nail it down then I would probably say Dark Legion level (a step above Razide). But most of the upper tier levels are now sitting at a 30%+ off RRP level (and international backers are paying very little shipping starting at Dark Legion level due to the free hero).
I think they have a chart up on the main page.
Razide is still a good value, but things really kick off at Dark Legion now. Personally, my sweet spot was found in the Five Heroes level. The right mix of stuff to trade in and being a sizable enough chunk of change on its own to make that 10% extra really worth it.
I am currently looking at getting two fairly large armies for the game (not counting what I already had for 'em).
But if I find I can run up to the next level... well, I just might do it.
plastictrees wrote: Is there a sweet spot here? Some of this stuff is starting to gt hard to ignore.
The new sweat spot is however much you are considering spending between Razide and The Five Heroes level (which, to be fair, is like a £100 gap ). If I had to nail it down then I would probably say Dark Legion level (a step above Razide). But most of the upper tier levels are now sitting at a 30%+ off RRP level (and international backers are paying very little shipping starting at Dark Legion level due to the free hero).
I think they have a chart up on the main page.
Razide is still a good value, but things really kick off at Dark Legion now. Personally, my sweet spot was found in the Five Heroes level. The right mix of stuff to trade in and being a sizable enough chunk of change on its own to make that 10% extra really worth it.
I am currently looking at getting two fairly large armies for the game (not counting what I already had for 'em).
But if I find I can run up to the next level... well, I just might do it.
For me "The 5" is were I'm sitting ATM, since I'm not sure if I could trade in the heros. lol
If I could swing it I would love to go Cartel, but might be stretching my funds way to much ATM to do that. lol
plastictrees wrote: Is there a sweet spot here? Some of this stuff is starting to gt hard to ignore.
Razide is still a good value, but things really kick off at Dark Legion now. Personally, my sweet spot was found in the Five Heroes level. The right mix of stuff to trade in and being a sizable enough chunk of change on its own to make that 10% extra really worth it.
After doing some math, I find Razide to be quite lacking, unless you are from the UK (or you really really want that Mishima doomtrooper). Same goes for the other low levels, the shipping costs are just too high.
plastictrees wrote: Is there a sweet spot here? Some of this stuff is starting to gt hard to ignore.
Razide is still a good value, but things really kick off at Dark Legion now. Personally, my sweet spot was found in the Five Heroes level. The right mix of stuff to trade in and being a sizable enough chunk of change on its own to make that 10% extra really worth it.
After doing some math, I find Razide to be quite lacking, unless you are from the UK (or you really really want that Mishima doomtrooper). Same goes for the other low levels, the shipping costs are just too high.
Razide works out to a 20% savings according to the KS page. So not as good as the 31% of going up one level. But if you simply can't afford to go over then it is a good value and shipping at Razide is pretty cheap since that character eats up about 50% of it. The lower levels are 14-20% savings as well, but at those levels it tends to be people looking to contribute a little to the project (thought the £1 pledge level is one of the better ones I've seen because it gives you something for your trouble), those are more for budget concious people looking not to spend a swack on it.
But I think Dark Legion is where things really start to shine and you can get stuff for a good amount under even what most online retailers would sell for (with cheaper shipping for most of us to boot). You also save a great deal if you grab any of the larger vehicles as well since they ship in August and you don't pay additional for the second shipment (that and their KS price is quite low compared to the expected RRP).
But if budget is no issue then upping to The Five Heroes and higher is where it's at (you save a whopping 39% at The Brotherhood level).
Update #30 I believe. Basically you gain 10% of your pledge total (not counting shipping) back in credits. Spend £200 and get £20 back in credits. This can lead to some pretty nice extras and most people in at higher levels are basically getting a few extra squads for no additional cost.
We have had a few people ask about the organisation of forces and how many minis they should buy to get an effective force.
We envisage that 'the Standard' game will be the mainstay of Warzone Resurrection. An average Warlord will be approx 70 points and the most basic troop choice will be approx 10. A standard game will be approximately 500 points (but could be extended to 750).
We have included game variants for those that firstly want to include heavies and secondly want even bigger games. So in total there are four options for game play, lead by the Standard game.
Add to this 3 levels of missions, ranging from 'get the XXXX', to 'kill points' as main missions, to secret ones that enable real variability. No two games need ever be the same (even if your forces are)!
Also Prodos at this point you probably should revamp the front page of the kickstarter, so that new backers can see the new & revamped cartel (& higher?) tiers when they join up for the last days
More great stuff, both the Orca and the Shark. Maybe it's a good thing I don't have any money right now, since that means I'll be giving gakloads of it to my FLGS once this all is released.
I'm liking the Shark, a solid resculpt there, and the Orca is amazing. I like how the armor plating sort of follows the lines of the glazing on the old one, and how they've made it much, much bigger.
Agamemnon2 wrote: I'm liking the Shark, a solid resculpt there, and the Orca is amazing. I like how the armor plating sort of follows the lines of the glazing on the old one, and how they've made it much, much bigger.
I love this stuff too, and really wish I could get in on the kick.. but am going to have to wait for retail and a player base.
However, Aggy.. I had to reread this many times.. I normally expect Sour Sentiments from you.. not praise....
I love this stuff too, and really wish I could get in on the kick.. but am going to have to wait for retail and a player base.
However, Aggy.. I had to reread this many times.. I normally expect Sour Sentiments from you.. not praise....
Prodos.. you made Aggy happy!
Porkuslime- I'm sure there will be a player AND retail base for Warzone where we are. There is a group of us for whom it was our favorite game ever, and we're looking forward to it coming out. A couple of these happen to be decision makers at my FLGS.
Plus, I'm going to do my darnedest to make sure that my Nerd Cave (my gaming group) members play.
The 4th of our vehicles designed by our friends at M3CH games. Namely the Brotherhood's Icarus flyer pioleted by an Archangel pilot.
This is a WIP and will be finished after the KS. As with the other heavy vehicles it will be dispatched in August (but at no additional P&P). Post KS RRP £39.99
These Capitol and Brotherhood models are making my choice very difficult now, originally I thought I would definitely go for Bauhaus and one of either Brotherhood or Dark Legion but now I could easily drop Bauhaus altogether and go with Brotherhood and Capitol.
Well done Prodos you guys are definitely doing things right if I'm this torn.
I cannot understand were a fighter jet fits in a skirmish game, well the same could in theory be said for the new sharks since they seem incapable of hovering.
PsychoticStorm wrote: I cannot understand were a fighter jet fits in a skirmish game, well the same could in theory be said for the new sharks since they seem incapable of hovering.
I have to side with you on this one. It felt more realistic to have them be off-board and launch missile strikes or such without having an actual presence.
Maybe it's like an A-10 that sort of loiters over the battlefield and then shoots stuff with its offensively large gatling gun. But, this is sci-fi/gothic/fantasy so I'm not as concerned with realism as I am fun and that it looks FREAKIN' AWESOME! (Plus, it has two gatling guns, which is one more than an A-10, if anyone is counting... )
Well i committed finally. Hopefully the contribution will help the next goal succeed. I do have a question, when the checklist comes out, will we be able to add to it in order to get roughly even values or do we just lose the spare change?
PsychoticStorm wrote: I cannot understand were a fighter jet fits in a skirmish game, well the same could in theory be said for the new sharks since they seem incapable of hovering.
They can be used in the scenario "Helpless Victim Gets PWNED", like in another popular tabletop game
PsychoticStorm wrote: I cannot understand were a fighter jet fits in a skirmish game, well the same could in theory be said for the new sharks since they seem incapable of hovering.
Agree totally on the 'fighter jet' statement!
Regarding the hovering, add 600 years to technology of today and that may not be the case. I suspect if you went bak to the 1500s and told people the world was round and people would fly in jumbo jets, your chance of staying Out the asylum would be limited
PsychoticStorm wrote: I cannot understand were a fighter jet fits in a skirmish game, well the same could in theory be said for the new sharks since they seem incapable of hovering.
Agree totally on the 'fighter jet' statement!
Regarding the hovering, add 600 years to technology of today and that may not be the case. I suspect if you went bak to the 1500s and told people the world was round and people would fly in jumbo jets, your chance of staying Out the asylum would be limited
Yes, but this is supposedly diesel punk, right? then again brotherhood could be more high tech than cibertronic.
It is dieselpunk, but just as VSF/Steampunk can have stuff that outpaces modern science, so can dieselpunk. Hell, they have space ships with magical jump capability, anti-gravity tech, power armour, high-level genetic engineering and a bunch of other bits of fantasy-tech. Most of the tech is pretty retro but it has some pretty high-tech bits.
And incidentally the Icarus is supposed to be completely top of the line and unmatched in terms of tech crammed in to it. The Brotherhood are actually quite an advanced faction, their monopoly on The Art gives them some avenues closed off to Cybertronic and their "artifacts" are usually powerful, high-tech devices.
PsychoticStorm wrote: I cannot understand were a fighter jet fits in a skirmish game, well the same could in theory be said for the new sharks since they seem incapable of hovering.
Agree totally on the 'fighter jet' statement!
Regarding the hovering, add 600 years to technology of today and that may not be the case. I suspect if you went bak to the 1500s and told people the world was round and people would fly in jumbo jets, your chance of staying Out the asylum would be limited
Prodos... I would like to lodge a complaint. Your render of Max Steiner has melted my face due to sheer rock-star levels of bad-assery. Please, cease and desist with such awesome renders forthwith. You have been warned!
Huh, so it's the design they'd used in the board game, eh? I was kind of hoping for the trench coat version that was in the SNES game. Either way, I just upped my pledge for him.
Again I have to start rethinking what I want from my pledge. Now I'm looking at Capitol and The Brotherhood despite for so long thinking I would definitely get Bauhaus. Ok it means I won't get a Grizzly (at least not initially ) but I will be able to get my grubby mits on the Orca and Icarus which are simply brilliant plus of course an extra unit for each army.
One quick question for Prodos, will Captiol be getting a weapon pack similar to the ones available for the other factions?
One quick question for Prodos, will Captiol be getting a weapon pack similar to the ones available for the other factions?
Prodos said in the kickstarter comments that Capitol will not have the pack just yet, because there are not so many units available and they would like to make this pack usefull for more future units. They said they would release it in near future though.
So it is with a big thank you to our Cardinal level pledger, Unknown Ghost, Prodos can bring you the Free Marines of the Capitol Corporation.
These badasses are the elite of the Capitol forces, but not only that, they are all doing penance for previous significant misdemeanors. If you come across them on the battlefield run, and run fast, in the opposite direction.
These will not be 3D rendered until after the Kickstarter and are likely to be shipped in August (but we will try our best for June).
Later we will announce their special character, which is the most badass of them all and will allow FM only forces.
Umm ok, Free Marines are my favorite force in the game but... WTF is with that concept art? To put this as politically correct as possible, instead of a badass the pose on that guy makes it look like he is trying to pick up sailors at the bar. He is also skinny as hell and not very bulky muscle-wise. These are a bunch of steroid abusing, ass kicking, "Screw that, we run Bartertown", hardened criminals who are fighting for the chance of a pardon, not some wimpy little milk toast, fairies.
Damn you prodo you are taking my money stop it before wife kills me.Free marines and light infantry were my favorites now you release one of them. But, show us a render of banshees!
Completely agree. These are by far the worst renders so far. I've liked, nay loved, over 90% of the stuff shown but these look oversexed trashy 80's. they should be at least fully clothed. I mean lightly armoured, sure, but not half naked..
Also the two with the blades have terrible poses and really ugly hair. The far left is probably the best looking followed by the far right.
Ah, I see they've gone the Bisley route with them. Still grabbing it for the female heads (want to make my V-Ranger squad leader a woman). At the very least, as an update to the unit that sticks to the style, it is a major improvement. But if they were going to go with the body-glove look then evening out the unit and putting a few guys in (since Mutant Chronicles used to have them as a co-ed unit) would have gone a ways toward making it seem a bit less fan-servicey.
But at the very least they lack cutesy poses that would take them from femme fatale and put them straight in to cheesecake. So for that I am thankful.
And that horrifically scarred head is definitely a breath of fresh air compared to the usual pristine look. She will be my V-Ranger squad leader head, I think.
So they aren't my usual preference, but they are an update in a style that is at least in keeping with the way the unit has been depicted in the past (the one with the crossed night-sticks is even an homage to a specific piece of art). And Prodos at least didn't make them overly cheese-cakey in terms of posing (the ones with the Gehenna Pukers do kind of look bad ass). If they grew a bit more armour on the chest, I wouldn't complain. But I'm not going to stomp off in a huff. I still play Infinity after-all.
PS - And oddly, despite my objections, I think my wife will dig 'em. Different strokes as they say. :p
You started so well with Angelica Drachen probably the best female model in a wargame I've ever seen and then first 'blessed' vestal laurel and now this? I don't suppose they come with an option for I don't know... armour? or at least a shirt?
I must agree, they completely oversexed them. I don't get how they decide that some models are almost perfect copy of the art from previous edition (those recieve thumbs up from the fans) and some are completely changed (most often for worse). Specially women characters, it happened with Laura then Golgotha and now Etoiles. I remember when Prodos commented that they do not want to oversexed characters in WZ:R. Well, aparently the etoiles can sneak in Venuasian jungles wearing skimpy panties and get no scratch
Shoulders are vulnerable, who needs body armour? Or pants? Guess some foreigners have strange opinions on French women and their fashion style ... or widows and mothers
The Mortants are widows and mothers that have dedicated their life to the end of the Legion or Megacorporation that has caused their loss. These are not women you want to cross.
Ronin_eX wrote: Ah, I see they've gone the Bisley route with them. Still grabbing it for the female heads (want to make my V-Ranger squad leader a woman). At the very least, as an update to the unit that sticks to the style, it is a major improvement. But if they were going to go with the body-glove look then evening out the unit and putting a few guys in (since Mutant Chronicles used to have them as a co-ed unit) would have gone a ways toward making it seem a bit less fan-servicey.
But at the very least they lack cutesy poses that would take them from femme fatale and put them straight in to cheesecake. So for that I am thankful.
And that horrifically scarred head is definitely a breath of fresh air compared to the usual pristine look. She will be my V-Ranger squad leader head, I think.
So they aren't my usual preference, but they are an update in a style that is at least in keeping with the way the unit has been depicted in the past (the one with the crossed night-sticks is even an homage to a specific piece of art). And Prodos at least didn't make them overly cheese-cakey in terms of posing (the ones with the Gehenna Pukers do kind of look bad ass). If they grew a bit more armour on the chest, I wouldn't complain. But I'm not going to stomp off in a huff. I still play Infinity after-all.
PS - And oddly, despite my objections, I think my wife will dig 'em. Different strokes as they say. :p
How do you figure the poses isn't fan service the second one on the left is holding her boobs.
sevsterino wrote: I must agree, they completely oversexed them. I don't get how they decide that some models are almost perfect copy of the art from previous edition (those recieve thumbs up from the fans) and some are completely changed (most often for worse). Specially women characters, it happened with Laura then Golgotha and now Etoiles. I remember when Prodos commented that they do not want to oversexed characters in WZ:R. Well, aparently the etoiles can sneak in Venuasian jungles wearing skimpy panties and get no scratch
I wouldn't go with the "these suck because they changed the art" angle, myself. If anything the catsuit versions are more prolific than Bonner's.
Studio Parente
Bisley
Can't Remember Right Now
Honestly, they stayed really true to most of the Etoile Mortant art. So you can't fault them on not using the past just because it isn't your personal favourite version. I would have actually preferred a ground-up redesign in this case, because most of the old art for Etoiles Mortant was ladies in skin-tight catsuits with little to no armour and sharp implements. I would have preferred something closer to Angelika's armour with some of the old-school EM stylings (certainly not the metal tube-top!). But for people who wanted faithful Etoiles Mortant, Prodos kind of delivered.
Ronin_eX wrote: Ah, I see they've gone the Bisley route with them. Still grabbing it for the female heads (want to make my V-Ranger squad leader a woman). At the very least, as an update to the unit that sticks to the style, it is a major improvement. But if they were going to go with the body-glove look then evening out the unit and putting a few guys in (since Mutant Chronicles used to have them as a co-ed unit) would have gone a ways toward making it seem a bit less fan-servicey.
But at the very least they lack cutesy poses that would take them from femme fatale and put them straight in to cheesecake. So for that I am thankful.
And that horrifically scarred head is definitely a breath of fresh air compared to the usual pristine look. She will be my V-Ranger squad leader head, I think.
So they aren't my usual preference, but they are an update in a style that is at least in keeping with the way the unit has been depicted in the past (the one with the crossed night-sticks is even an homage to a specific piece of art). And Prodos at least didn't make them overly cheese-cakey in terms of posing (the ones with the Gehenna Pukers do kind of look bad ass). If they grew a bit more armour on the chest, I wouldn't complain. But I'm not going to stomp off in a huff. I still play Infinity after-all.
PS - And oddly, despite my objections, I think my wife will dig 'em. Different strokes as they say. :p
How do you figure the poses isn't fan service the second one on the left is holding her boobs.
Yeah, she's is the major exception, the others are largely fine (pose-wise). The hilarious part is that she is the most faithfully recreated one of the bunch (see Studio Parente cover above). As I said, I'd have loved them to do a ground-up redesign on these, because a faithful remake was going to be exactly what we got. Because Bonner only had the one piece, and it was meant to be Valerie Duval herself (at least according to Siege of the Citadel, and since they are using Siege-Max as their Max Steiner, Siege-Val is probably their go-to for Valerie).
I am just kind of weirded out by the intimation that Prodos did any re-designs here. My whole problem with the original Etoiles Mortant was that they were women in skin-tight body-suits. That this has taken people by surprise, is itself, surprising to me.
I thought the Mortants were trained by The Brotherhood to fight the Dark Legion (and then Cybertronic). The widow and mother thing is Imperial Mourning Wolves.
As for the renders, I'm not a fan. Although I did like the women in cat suits thing (I sort of got a Kate Beckensale in Underworld vibe from the fluff about Valerie Duval). And THREE Pukers in a squad. Wow...
I never read the comics so I cant comment on how they looked there but in the warzone book there was one EM and she didn't have a catsuit. They also said they'd be bringing warzone to the 21st century now chainmail bikini isn't the 21 century if you ask me.
These minis look terrible. The cat suit with only armor being the shoulder pads looks like the worst of trashy 90's comic books. I was excited by concept showen with the bonner art and other women in the bauhaus range. very disapointed.
TheDungen wrote: I never read the comics so I cant comment on how they looked there but in the warzone book there was one EM and she didn't have a catsuit. They also said they'd be bringing warzone to the 21st century now chainmail bikini isn't the 21 century if you ask me.
Only one of those images is from the comic mate. The first one is actually a Mutant Chronicles source book (so concurrent with 1st Edition Warzone) and I believe it even appears in a 1st Edition book as well. The last picture is 2nd Edition.
The only minis ever produced for the Etoile Mortant matched the art I posted more closely than Bonner's work. And Bonner's work was actually art that was originally meant to represent Valerie Duval (as she appeared in Siege of the Citadel, which is also where they got the version of Max Steiner we now have a render for).
1st Edition Warzone was pretty bad for reusing the same few art pices over and over again and doing so out of general context. For another fun example Coral Beach, a Cybertronic character, was also the art piece used to represent Chassuers and later, Enhanced Chasseurs (exact same picture used each time). And of course, we all know that 1st Edition Chasseurs (and current edition ones) look nothing like the art piece we were given. Max Steiner is another good example of someone who has been alternately used as archetypal art for a unit as well as using art that represented other characters as his own.
Bonner only ever drew Valerie Duval, but because Target loved re-using art whenever they could it ended up being re-purposed to being a general EM picture in 1st Edition just as Coral Beach was the archetypal Chasseur. It doesn't help that later on Valerie Duval was swapped to the raven-haired woman with the bladed night-sticks just to confuse everyone even more. In actual truth, the only art of an Etoile Mortant that you can find that hasn't been, at one time, a picture of Valerie Duval, is the blonde one in the blue catsuit with the metal crop-top.
Did I ever mention how confusing and byzantine the history of Mutant Chronicles/Warzone art is? DID I?!?!?!? *ahem*
I can get people's disappointment, certainly, but Prodos faithfully re-produced the most well-developed (hrm, poor choice of words...) version of the Etoiles Mortant (likely so they could save Bonner's piece to do Val with). If you weren't looking for catsuits, then it was the wrong tree to go barking up, unless you wanted Prodos to do a complete re-design of the unit (which would be my preference). But honestly, I don't actually want Prodos to get caught up re-designing these things.
In a few years when we look back on old releases and start doing the inevitable "what needs to be resculpted" threads, these will be on my list (not due to quality though, just style-preference). But for now, they are pretty damn faithful to the art that has come before and it seems enough (non-vocal) people are largely happy with them (the pledges certainly have shot up a bit). So let those people have their fun. I am happy to use them for head swaps and remember exactly why I have never bought a single unit of Etoiles Mortant for ANY edition of the game.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Well I'm certainly not complaining about this:
Jarek Ever wrote: Based on your feedbacks , It looks likes they might need some more love
I just hope this doesn't set 'em back too much. And I hope they don't change the scarred head too much. Hopefully they can just port over Angelika's armour bits to give them a bit of cover up. Their patience and willingness to alter things never ceases to amaze me.
And that piece is not on the cover of my mutant chronicles rpg first ed that has the freelancer version of mcbride on it. On page 54 there is a EM however in armour and camo clothing. (oh and this isnt a paul bonner piece)
and no its not in the first edition warzone either, that has 114 pictures of EM Valerie Duval (a redhead alongside the other doomtrooper heroes) on page 38 a brunette one at pg 79 (who looks nothing like duval from page 38), another behind the nefarite magus at 114 (looks nothing like the other two). And you are sugesting that all these three EM are in fact Valerie duval despite that they're clearly not the same person and all drawn by Paul Bonner? They are all EM and all of them wear armour instead of catsuits... your move.
Edit: Hey I found one of you pictures, really small on the back of the second edition rpg.
For me an angelica top armour without the jacket (and paldrons?) and the top of the middle etoile would be great, heads are nice, nightsticks replaced with punisher combos.
Mortant 2 (I know doom trooper labelled this one as Hussar, but since she's using a punisher rather than Hussar equipment I'm going to assume that was a mistake):
But according to Siege of the Citadel (back when Watts was white!)
Also Valerie (the face painting is all the same, easy way to tell!)
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|
v
Moratant 1:
Mortant 2 (I know doom trooper labelled this one as Hussar, but since she's using a punisher rather than Hussar equipment I'm going to assume that was a mistake):
Mortant 3:
Congrats on independently verifying exactly what my post was getting at. Valerie has at least 2-3 different incarnations. The one we see in Siege of the Citadel (which is where Prodos are pulling their version of Max Steiner from), the one featured in that Bonner pic where she is changed a little (face paint is changed, armour is in a new colour), and the version seen in Golgotha where she has black hair and is wearing a body stocking.
At some point in time, all of these pictures have been Valerie Duval. The only one that does not have this honour is the one from 2nd Edition.
And that piece is not on the cover of my mutant chronicles rpg first ed that has the freelancer version of mcbride on it. On page 54 there is a EM however in armour and camo clothing. (oh and this isnt a paul bonner piece)
You realize I said contemporary with 1st Edition right? The cover was from the Golgotha Sourcebook (1996) though it appears again as Valerie Duval's picture in the 1st Edition supplement Dawn of War (page 20 if you're curious).
So yeah, congrats, you have managed to underline exactly what I said in my own post:
Did I ever mention how confusing and byzantine the history of Mutant Chronicles/Warzone art is? DID I?!?!?!? *ahem*
But I honestly don't feel like playing "ferret out the minutae of a long-lived property's odd and storied art direction" today. So sorry, not making a move in this particular game of nerd-minutae chess.
Mortant 1 is the art used to depict Valerie on her stat card in Siege of the Citadel, Mortant 2 is from the box cover of the same game and is also Valerie, the final picture is another one of Max and Valerie captured by Valpurgius. You can generally tell because a) the first two are explicitly Val in SotC and b) the facial tattoo/scarring/warpaint is exactly the same in each case. That they look slightly different each time has more to do with the randomness of the art direction and them being in different circumstances.
Target re-used art a lot (see Max Steiner, Valerie Duval, Bob Watts both black and white, Coral Beach, etc.). I was just pointing out mostly that there is very little actual art that was originally intended as Etoiles Mortant, rather than being commissioned as Valerie Duval and later repurposed. I was also just pointing out that Prodos can't be mind readers and know which of the umpteen-billion iterations of the old art people would like to see and that the catsuit EM is more prolific than the earlier version (which were mostly just Valerie). The only mini for them was a skin-suit with a metal tube-top.
But in the end, Prodos seem to be open to altering the design and that is good enough for me. I am just weirded out by people who were expecting a faithful reproduction to something other than what we got. As I've said before, there is a reason I have never really liked the EM as a unit and there is a reason I voted for the Crucifier instead of Val even when I don't play Brotherhood.
But yeah, Prodos are tweaking it, we should all hopefully be pleased by the result.
For me an angelica top armour without the jacket (and paldrons?) and the top of the middle etoile would be great, heads are nice, nightsticks replaced with punisher combos.
Personly i was expecting something like the armor top angelica has minus jacket, with combat fatigues like the hussars plus pauldrons like the hussars. i do like the pants on the middle one, i feel that has more the right idea.
I also agree on the punisher combos. That would look boss. If they keep with the bladed tonfas they need work. They are to oversized and the pose is to fan service.
I also we hope we get alt heads that don't have huge 80's hair. Lol i don't mind one or here their. Just not the whole squad.
(sorry for any spelling and grammer on last 2 posts. Posted them from a phone.)
jacobus wrote: I thought the Mortants were trained by The Brotherhood to fight the Dark Legion (and then Cybertronic). The widow and mother thing is Imperial Mourning Wolves.
I think you are right, but I quoted the official kickstarter text on the Etoiles Mortants.
After the Capitol offerings these ladies came way behind. The return of the Gehenna Puker (and three in the same unit :O) is great but the heads need more work, Etoile #4 is saying "shoot me here" and if the sculptor wants to leave the navel showing at least take the chest armor under the rib cage please.
I don't know or care about which art is or isn't the "true original" version of the unit. All I know is that I would love to field a miniature that looks like this:
And I would be embarrassed to be seen in public fielding a miniature that looks like this:
If they're open to redesigns as some have said, I think the first image in this post would be a vastly better look than what they have at present.
The design of the heads leaves me cold... but I'm sure with a good coat of paint, they'd clean up fine.
The weaponry, however, is a bit hard to swallow. I always saw the Gehenna Puker as a circumstancially good weapon but not as polyvalent as the punisher combo.
I have some of the original catsuit mortants and I think they are nice minis and not too overly sexy for a solar system in which virtually every man apparently travels with an ab roller and eats steroids with every meal.
That said, I'm not a huge fan of the renders. They seem a bit off somehow.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Though the one on the left looks good.
normally I don't like miniatures of women that are what you call the chainmail bikini like but I actually like the cat suits a lot. They are supposed to be stealth troops, so wearing cat suits like ninjas or splinter cell ect..fits for me. I am not sure I care for the hair do's on these but I do like the cat suits.
At any one time only one of these have been Valerie though wich means that at all times three of those pictures have been EM the same number as your comic book pictures and sourcebook based on a comic. Also the form fitting armour in your pictures is still way better than the no no shirt lowcut pants that they have now.
EM in actual gear is not unpresedented and I really don't see why they are bashing them into mourning wolves. The EM as they where represented that Bauhaus was the corp closest to the brotherhood.
They went into this saying that they wanted to bring warzone into the 21st century. I assumed that meant realism. Guess I was wrong i guess the 21st century is just fan service and bulging muscles too. Hey maybe the next batman suit will have nipples too( cause that's obviously how the 21st century is.
kestral wrote: I have some of the original catsuit mortants and I think they are nice minis and not too overly sexy for a solar system in which virtually every man apparently travels with an ab roller and eats steroids with every meal.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Though the one on the left looks good.
These original catsuits mortants are from the 2nd ed.
The first edition looked like that. The models are not pretty, but Target Games for a good reason stayed with Bonner's concept rather than Bisleys. I also found in Chronicles from Warzone and all 1st edition compendiums many more pictures of EM wearing light armor and pants than cat suits
sevsterino wrote: I remember when Prodos commented that they do not want to oversexed characters in WZ:R.
So do I. But so far it seems like Angelika will be the only one with a "realistic" take. And for all we know she may be in line to get her bust size increased and her outfit sexed-up since so many people complained about her before.
What they complained about Angelika? about what? She was the probably most awesome female miniature ever sculpted.
madzerker wrote: normally I don't like miniatures of women that are what you call the chainmail bikini like but I actually like the cat suits a lot. They are supposed to be stealth troops, so wearing cat suits like ninjas or splinter cell ect..fits for me. I am not sure I care for the hair do's on these but I do like the cat suits.
Also for the whole catsuit thing being realistic since they are supposed to be stealth, have you seen a a real special forces team? they don't dresss in cat suits they dress in bulletproof vests and helms, they don't pack knives they pack p90s. just look at the delta force for an example. the cat suits is a hollywood thing and a dated one at that.
You wan to know how a female soldier look like? watch the beginning of Iron man again. "Oh my god you're a woman, I honestly couldn't tell before"
I think its really is étoiles mourantes, the -t suffix may come from the fact that the game was originally made by swedes and they've bent (i have no idea what its called in english) it like it was swedish. feel free to call them étoiles mourantes if it pleases you. myself I'll never learn to pronounce that anyway so i'll go etolies morant and etoiles morants.
Edit: oh they're called Etoies mortant... i have no idea,maybe they didn tthink people would recognise the french word for death unless it had Mort in it. I doubt you can get them to change it at this point, pitty though Etolies Morantes sounds way better than etoiles mortants.
Col. Dash wrote: Umm ok, Free Marines are my favorite force in the game but... WTF is with that concept art? To put this as politically correct as possible, instead of a badass the pose on that guy makes it look like he is trying to pick up sailors at the bar. He is also skinny as hell and not very bulky muscle-wise. These are a bunch of steroid abusing, ass kicking, "Screw that, we run Bartertown", hardened criminals who are fighting for the chance of a pardon, not some wimpy little milk toast, fairies.
Really? Uggg...you could have stated your opinion on the concept art in a more constructive manner. You could have commented that you felt that the Free Marines should have more muscle mass, look more rugged, etc. The implication based upon your statement is that the Free Marines concept art makes them appear weak and gay. By prefacing your statement with "as being as politically correct as possible", it really does not make comments like "wimpy little milk toast, fairies" acceptable.
Col. Dash wrote: Umm ok, Free Marines are my favorite force in the game but... WTF is with that concept art? To put this as politically correct as possible, instead of a badass the pose on that guy makes it look like he is trying to pick up sailors at the bar. He is also skinny as hell and not very bulky muscle-wise. These are a bunch of steroid abusing, ass kicking, "Screw that, we run Bartertown", hardened criminals who are fighting for the chance of a pardon, not some wimpy little milk toast, fairies.
Really? Uggg...you could have stated your opinion on the concept art in a more constructive manner. You could have commented that you felt that the Free Marines should have more muscle mass, look more rugged, etc. The implication based upon your statement is that the Free Marines concept art makes them appear weak and gay. By prefacing your statement with "as being as politically correct as possible", it really does not make comments like "wimpy little milk toast, fairies" acceptable.
Personally I like the look of he free marines. The concept makes them look more lean and athletic, instead of body builders
As for Dash's comments, their is a reason I refused to vindicate them with a reply.
Btw the free marines, will come with various body sizes, to note, the heavy gunner will be bulkier than the standard and to be honest not sure if a pencil drawing or the resin model that is designed from it can have a sexual orientation. It a concept art btw to give the 3d renderers an idea of armour type position etc.
I actually think the Free Marine concept is great and overall looks a lot better than previous incarnations of the unit. The old Free Marines looked like bodybuilders, which, while imposing in one sense, look pretty different from people who actually see a lot of combat. The new Free Marine picture looks lean, mean, and dangerous. It's a subtler kind of imposing but one that IMO is much better if pulled off properly.
Also we've only really seen one, so there is one EDITED freemarine so what? you don't think gay soldiers can break the rules? and for all you know that guy could be a total nutter who just happens to be born looking like that. From what i remember anyone can trade their penalty for ten years as a freemarine, that means from shoplifting to hannibal lecter himself.
Sorry if I offended some thin skinned people but the old models of Free Marines were some of the best produced for Warzone. The iconic stereotypical view of them is over-muscled steroid junkies with nothing better to do in between ops than workout, train and get prison tattoos. Little wimpy people wont survive and I have seen really big SF guys in real life. Prodos should use Arnold from the movie Commando or Predator as reference models. If any models in the entire game look like Hollywood heroes, it should be these guys. The armor was fine. Dolph Lungren(sp?), the Rock, Jesse Ventura, Stallone(when he was in shape), toss on some sci-fi armor and guns, and you get Free Marine visuals.
LOL more realistic muscles and less cloning. Cats are very much out of proportion even to hard core body builders. But definately big and beefy with the Capital armor styles. White collar criminals for the most part wouldnt survive in the hell holes they send the Free Marines. Oh and mohawks, flat tops, and crew cut hair styles.
As for the Sea Lions, they would be more lean solid muscle, Olympic swimmer types. The pic for the Free Marine would be more appropriate for the Sea Lions.
Col. Dash wrote: LOL more realistic muscles and less cloning. Cats are very much out of proportion even to hard core body builders. But definately big and beefy with the Capital armor styles. White collar criminals for the most part wouldnt survive in the hell holes they send the Free Marines. Oh and mohawks, flat tops, and crew cut hair styles.
As for the Sea Lions, they would be more lean solid muscle, Olympic swimmer types. The pic for the Free Marine would be more appropriate for the Sea Lions.
At first I could not agree on your first commment, but now I think there is a lot of truth in what you are saying. See Lions are golden boys while Free Marines are the closest to wild animals that can get a human being, of course without Catachan exaggeration. Thinking about the special rules for characters, I hope Prodos remembers that Big Bob is a free marine too.
Btw. Prodos, I very much like the style of your sketch artist, I hope he/she will do some color art for the rulebook.
I still disagree its the mentality that keeps you alive in the free marines. And the nut jobs got that down but they are rarely muscular. I like the idea of hannibal or jack the ripper as free marines. they aren't white colar but Ty hey aren't gangstas either... They'll make the small time criminals cry for mommy.
These new things are nice I guess just hope they remember the reactions to the vestal and EM when they make the valkyries and Valerie. So the dino riders? New concept can't remember seeing them in first edition. I guess those are necro mutants on their backs?
"Remember the reactions"? Supposedly the pledges jumped up quite a bit after the EM renders were shown off, so if they do remember then we probably won't be getting tasteful models.
TheDungen wrote: I still disagree its the mentality that keeps you alive in the free marines. And the nut jobs got that down but they are rarely muscular. I like the idea of hannibal or jack the ripper as free marines. they aren't white colar but Ty hey aren't gangstas either... They'll make the small time criminals cry for mommy.
Considering the back story, I wouldn't be surprised if these guys were kept on fairly "lean" diets to keep them in check. They wouldn't be emaciated, but it would keep them from bulking up to much. Easier for the guards to keep them on a short leash.
Col. Dash wrote: Sorry if I offended some thin skinned people...[sic]
Believe it or not saying that doesn't magically excuse your pig headed comments from before.
Sidstyler wrote: "Remember the reactions"? Supposedly the pledges jumped up quite a bit after the EM renders were shown off, so if they do remember then we probably won't be getting tasteful models.
true but enough people complained to make them put them back on the drawing board again. I'd say the reaction was sufficient. Not that it matters a lot, if they decide to go the chainmail bikini route that's just one troop type I don't have to spend money on. the em was more a kick to the groin as I intended to houserule my bauhaus and brotherhood as one force against my dl (which i have a lot from earlier ed to) and EM would be the natural troops in such a force. well I'm glad those are back at the drawing board.
Lockark wrote: Believe it or not saying that doesn't magically excuse your pig headed comments from before.
Especially when you're implying they're just thin-skinned in the same breath, lol. "Sorry, but not really."
But yeah I'm sure it's just "thin skin". No one could, or should, be offended by the implication that being gay is not only a bad thing but that old bs stereotypes are actually true and gay people can't be manly and tough like a Marine. They're all limp-wristed and talk with lisps too, I guess.
Even if that Free Marine was gay he would still be a stone cold bad ass. But either way he's probably reaching for that -huge machete the art is picturing. I'm personally pretty fond of the Free Marine concepts, they look very Space 'Nam. It looks like it is going to be an awesomely diverse unit.
Well I'm glad that the original Vulcan designs are coming back for something. A unit of power-armoured troops is just perfect, so I'm down for some of them. And getting decent looking Mirrormen will be a plus so they got added on as well. With all of the freebies that managed to bump me up to exactly £6.65 in credits... Wonder who I should get (part of me is thinking Val, the other is thinking a second Max. Choices, choices).
And I'm kind of glad Prodos decided to change the EM's despite the upswing in pledges that occured around the same time. I have to admit that I have been spending less money on Corvus Belli stuff ever since their response to people complaining about their cheesecake models was that they sold well so we can just go stuff it. But we'll have to wait and see on that front in regards to what Prodos does. No matter what they have been handed a unit that is a laundry list of females-in-fantasy/scifi stereotypes. That's mostly Target's fault, not Prodos's. This is kind of why I was hoping the unit would go back to being co-ed like it was in the RPG (for a very short time, but still in there), but them being a pure female unit is really ingrained in to a lot of people's minds now.
I'm still in it mostly for the heads since I've never cared for any version of them. Bonner's was bland and the others were... well, yeah. Prodos got a bad deal on getting to recreate them. No matter what they do people will bitch. Use the sexy-EM's and people will hammer them for the cheesecake, use Bonner's version and people will complain about uninspired design and over-teased 80's hair, do a complete redesign and the purists will hammer them for diverging too much. So I'm not holding out hope that Prodos will re-design the wheel and give me Etoiles that I'll like because Target failed on that front from almost the beginning (at least as long as Warzone has been around). But at least Prodos is trying, and that's worth a lot in my book.
The ideal would be if they could make both option available in the set. Make everyone happy. Though since it's such a big change they might have to go the juggernaut way with it, release them as something else later. Maybe just Etoiles Morant infiltration team and etoiles morant strike force (whit the light armoured one being the infiltration team).
As for the jugger itself I wont make a decision on that until I see the render. the picture has a certain art style that make me think of old scifi movies but it'll be interesting to see how it turns out. I have gotten so many units I want by now that I'm largely satisfied. if something awesome drops i might add it but, right now i mostly want my minis. =)
oh and those necrobeast riders cna either be really really bad or really really awesome depending on how well they show them as necrobeasts.
Hello female not-Tanith Ghosts, some of you will make a lovely addition to an INQ28 retinue I'm planning
Seriously, Warzone Dudes, that is some nice work, even the boots look somewhat practical. I prefer the flak-vest on the heavy weapon-toting girls myself, but even the slightly-boob armour-ish ones are decent.
Prodos is really impressing me with their responses to customers. Those new em are spot on. Please show some renders of the banshees need to see them one of few units without a render now.
Well me... I actually kind of like those! Like, a lot. Looks like they're wearing flak vests and the baggy pants and boot combo is kind of bad-ass looking. The initial stances are also pretty damn good.
I'm a lot more impressed by these. The vest-style on the two with the pukers are probably my faves, though the others aren't too bad either. Still form fitting but not quite hugging. I could see it being some kind of ballistic fabric, it looks stiff enough to stop a few bullets.
You never cease to amaze me Prodos.
Oh and I am totally down for those templates as well. My pledge just keeps on increasing!
Well, while I really didn't dislike the first renders for the Etoiles, as I don't care about the "cheesecake" whines; I must say the redesign looks really good. To the point that I'm considering buying a box for my Capitol because with some shoulder pad and weapon swaps they will make outstanding female Free Marines, ala Vasquez from Aliens. And with the upcoming free marine character I don't think a single box of Free Marines is enough.
what can I say, you did it again Prodos. Amazing response and the result is amazing, still sexy and screaming I am a female, but with good taste this time. Great job!!
I also think it is not a bad idea to keep just one of them with the previous style lower body outfit, but just one and not 5.
Bloody brilliant! I love that sword/pistol combo, it looks awesome! Now THAT is a unit that it would love to feild and paint! I might actully up my pledge just to get more of them.
Just get some more verity in sutiably badass heads and your set.
Even if that Free Marine was gay he would still be a stone cold bad ass. But either way he's probably reaching for that -huge machete the art is picturing. I'm personally pretty fond of the Free Marine concepts, they look very Space 'Nam. It looks like it is going to be an awesomely diverse unit.
Personally I love that biker head with the huge beard and dew rag. So much charater in that head. Give us a bunch of radical different heads and accessory bits and the free marines are going to be a treat to modle and paint! I like the idea of a unit were each individual has alot of personal character.
Well I'm glad that the original Vulcan designs are coming back for something. A unit of power-armoured troops is just perfect, so I'm down for some of them. And getting decent looking Mirrormen will be a plus so they got added on as well. With all of the freebies that managed to bump me up to exactly £6.65 in credits... Wonder who I should get (part of me is thinking Val, the other is thinking a second Max. Choices, choices).
Well I adore of Vulcan we have now and prefer it over the exo suits, The Exo-suits are still realy cool. I'm happy to see they are going to be a unit in their own right!
Oh yes, the current Vulcans are great Vulcans (my favourite iteration of 'em to date). But I'm glad they found a use for the exo-suit version because I actually quite liked it. Now we get to use both at the same time! Wonder how it is going to be armed.
Kroothawk wrote: I also think the Etoiles have improved greatly by the redesign.
Maybe check if you mixed up the background for Etoiles and Mourning Wolves.
It may just be new background to justify the EM being all female (since it is never explained, even when it was made explicit in 2nd Edition that they were all female). Mourning wolves are exclusively wives and lovers of Imperial soldiers who have fallen. So while very similar it seems Etoiles are also mothers of the fallen as well. Either way, if Prodos were going with an all-female suicide squad then it makes sense to come up with some justification, and the Mourning Wolves had some pretty good justification going already.
If the unit were still co-ed then it would need no explanation, but they have been implicitly and explicitly all female for a while now, so short of reverting back to Mutant Chronicles 1st Edition fluff (which had men and women in the unit) it would have been a hard sell since everyone tends to think of EM as an all-female special forces unit. But unfortunately none of the editions of Warzone ever actually go in to why they needed to be all-female (2nd Edition says it is an ancient and long-forgotten tradition).
Edit - Oh, Ultimate Warzone was where the fluff about them being composed of barren women came from... Yeah, colour me glad that Prodos didn't go with that one. It is more than a little squicky that the unit exists so that women who cannot be birth machines can go off and die on the battlefield. God, I can't believe I didn't notice that the first time. *shudder*
Yeah, I'm a fan of them being a unit of pissed-off wives and mothers out to take the fight to the Dark Legion/Megacorps that robbed them of a loved one. Sure, it cuts in to the Mourning Wolves background a little, but I can see both Imperial and Bauhaus (being the two extremely honour and duty driven cultures) having similar units. They tend to care about revenge the most, so I think there is room for Etoiles and Mourning Wolves to have similar backgrounds.
Ouch, looks like the Cardinal had to pull out due to financial troubles. At least he left and note and was kind enough to wait until dropping his pledge wouldn't send us under £100k. It's a good thing that it's climbing at the rate it is otherwise I might be more worried.
As much as people are hoping for Sea Lions, I hope Prodos replaces them with the Free Marines since many are already pledged for them.
Sad news either way, especially with all of the movement upward recently.
Well, pledges have been climbing pretty steadily at this point. Normally today is a pretty slow one and it made enough that the £5k drop is only registering a net loss of a little less than £1k. So unless it hits a snag over the next little bit it should climb back to £105k in another couple of days. It has made it to around five days where it hasn't netted any less than £1000 a day with recent days being £3000 and above (which is an oddity for a Monday).
I think the end surge on this will be pretty good and I am not worried that we wont be passing £105k and leaving it in the dust again.
Ronin_eX wrote: Well, pledges have been climbing pretty steadily at this point. Normally today is a pretty slow one and it made enough that the £5k drop is only registering a net loss of a little less than £1k. So unless it hits a snag over the next little bit it should climb back to £105k in another couple of days. It has made it to around five days where it hasn't netted any less than £1000 a day with recent days being £3000 and above (which is an oddity for a Monday).
I think the end surge on this will be pretty good and I am not worried that we wont be passing £105k and leaving it in the dust again.
I agree :^)
I do not think it will set us back too much and I am happy that Prodos has created a bunch of mini stretch goals. This Kickstarter will probably see 130k in the end! Keep up the good work Prodos!!!
He works in real estate and had a big sale fall through, so instead of getting a huge commission he gets nothing
So instead of spending 5K on toy soldiers he needs to keep it to spend on his and his families living expenses.
People in that sort of business are often in a 'feast or famine' situation, unfortunately this time it's famine
You mean "feast or feast with one less course" surely, his family are hardly likely to be scouring the local bins for rats to cook because one sale fell through
Kroothawk wrote: I also think the Etoiles have improved greatly by the redesign.
Maybe check if you mixed up the background for Etoiles and Mourning Wolves.
It may just be new background to justify the EM being all female (since it is never explained, even when it was made explicit in 2nd Edition that they were all female). Mourning wolves are exclusively wives and lovers of Imperial soldiers who have fallen. So while very similar it seems Etoiles are also mothers of the fallen as well. Either way, if Prodos were going with an all-female suicide squad then it makes sense to come up with some justification, and the Mourning Wolves had some pretty good justification going already.
1.) I am not happy if a Bauhaus unit steals the unique background of an Imperial unit (the faction I am interested in).
2.) "Female soldiers? Must be widows or mothers of fallen, can't think of any other reason for women to fight." This reasoning might work in a tribal setting (like the Imperial wolves), but sounds ridiculous in a modern army. And don't make them female trollslayers: No modern army would invest in years of training an expensive elite cc unit and then send it to a suicidal mission, when an untrained person with a bombing belt would do.
Kroothawk wrote: "Female soldiers? Must be widows or mothers of fallen, can't think of any other reason for women to fight." This reasoning might work in a tribal setting (like the Imperial wolves), but sounds ridiculous in a modern army.
The idea that any modern army would run an all female front-line combat unit is already stretching suspension of disbelief pretty thin. Does it matter what motivation we're dealing with here?
Kroothawk wrote: "Female soldiers? Must be widows or mothers of fallen, can't think of any other reason for women to fight." This reasoning might work in a tribal setting (like the Imperial wolves), but sounds ridiculous in a modern army.
The idea that any modern army would run an all female front-line combat unit is already stretching suspension of disbelief pretty thin. Does it matter what motivation we're dealing with here?
Kroothawk wrote: "Female soldiers? Must be widows or mothers of fallen, can't think of any other reason for women to fight." This reasoning might work in a tribal setting (like the Imperial wolves), but sounds ridiculous in a modern army.
The idea that any modern army would run an all female front-line combat unit is already stretching suspension of disbelief pretty thin. Does it matter what motivation we're dealing with here?
I second.
I'll vote to pass this motion, but will add this(begin thread derailment):
The reason chivalry is dead is because it is considered pig-headed to be chivalrous. So the ladies who want men to treat them like a lady, please don't blame men. We are only trying to survive in the modern world and its damned if you do scenario we're put in.(end thread derailment)
Indeed, I'm not really sure what to think right now. But at the very least I should stop draining my faith in humanity by reading the reactions on the Facebook forum. Apparently DakkaDakka hates women because we didn't want head-sized tits prominently displayed on the models (because the only reason a woman is worth a damn is because of those amiright?). feth me I need a fething drink and a shower after reading some of that gak.
I think this heralds me taking a break from the internet for a bit.
Edit - Keep up the hard work profanity filter, your work is god's work!
Prodos Games is very proud to announce, Alessio Cavatore, owner of RiverHorse joins the rules team for Warzone Resurrection. Alessio is a true stalwart and veteran of the tabletop and board game writing world (and a rider of Rohan). We believe his skills and knowledge will be invaluable as we fine tune and put the finishing touches to the rule set over the next few weeks, ready for print and June dispatch. Welcome aboard Alessio!
All the arguments ageist the current look is thinly veiled arguments and half backed justifications in favor of sex appeal and cheese cake.
I love the point Gavin Mutter made on Update #58 on the kickstarter. Quoted for truth.
Yeah, it is a fantasy game. But all too often the default seems to be Male Fantasy. The guys are all bad ass brutes that guys want to be and the women are all curvaceous vixens to be conquered and bedded (after getting through their tough-girl exterior and making them feel like a woman!). Remember that a woman's power fantasy doesn't equal a male sexual fantasy.
I for one think it is time that the industry stops catering to one fantasy. Prodos have given us a unit that is a damn good try at a female power fantasy. They're hardly dull either. I mean, unless dull equates to something that means not oozing sex appeal. But what kind of standard is that where female models are dull unless they ooze sexuality?
Besides which, it isn't like the industry is inundated with a lack of sexy female models. You can't throw a stone without finding a sexy this or a sexy that. If the representation wasn't so bloody lopsided then people might have a point. But the industry is so engulfed in catering to the male demographic that it often seems up its own arse when it comes to gender equality.
So what is the harm in having some female minis that aren't played up for sexiness but are awesome because they are stone cold bad ass in their own right? Who is harmed by having a more fair and balanced representation of things that might appeal to women or even men who are just sick to hell of over-sexed stereotypes that are the norm in the industry?
I'm all for fantasy in gaming, I just don't think the definition of fantasy requires every woman needs to look like a porn star. *shrug*
well one if the things about them being corporations instead of countries is that they all sell weapons and armour to each other. Like the punisher Pistol (and knife), the nimrod and the deathlockdrum (?) the gehenna puker (the flamethrower you spotted) is a weapon available to all corporations as well as being used a lot by doomtroopers and cartel aligned forces.
all these weapons with the exception of the punisher combo (which is brotherhood produced) is produced by the cartel.
The old flamethrower you showed was the light flamethrower they gave them in 2nd edition, the Blitzers flamethrower you spotted is the Gehena Puker, the iconic WZ heavy flamethrower they gave them, so its no surprise it looks similar they are similar.
Yeah, the Cartel often licenses out designs to other corporations to build for the Doomtroopers. Bauforce, for instance makes the Atlas Megacannon and the Deathlockdrum (which is why both are native weapons to Bauhaus as well as being found on Doomtroopers). I think Imperial has licenses for the Nimrod and Gehenna Puker (and the Deathlockdrum also shows up in the weapon section of their sourcebook, though they may get supplied by Bauhaus or even the Cartel).
I always liked how the corps were definitely still real corporations instead of just being de facto nations. You will find rich Capitolians wearing top of the line Bauhaus suits because they are the best in the system. You will find street gangs on Luna toting cheap Mishiman weaponry. Everyone who has the money and needs prosthetics goes to Cybertronic. They all still fight tooth and nail, but they will also use each other's equipment as well (though they tend to save their best stuff for themselves, which is why the wargame tends to portray them with their own guns). But the corporations are still corporations and they are all trying to sell their product to the widest range of people. It always made the corporate espionage angle so fun in the RPG. Like playing a game of Shadowrun with larger shoulderpads (and the troll is a genetically modified Bauhaus super-soldier).
The generic weapons like the puker, Nimrod, punisher combo and Deathlockdrum were always a fun way of representing that in the wargame. I hope we see some more expansion on the generic weaponry as well as the Cartel itself.
But I'd really like to see a gameplay video before jumping in.
Has Prodos uploaded one anywhere yet?
I looked around on the KS update page but couldn't locate any.
Anyone know if one exists?
EDIT!
Here's a rather long one:
Anything a bit more concise and/or not an hour + long?
And don't forget, the beta is 100% free right now (and a £1 pledge gives you access to the final rules PDF). So if you want a look at it then grab a handful of minis and give it a go. 11 small-based and 1 medium is all you need. The forces are generic for testing purposes right now, but it is loads of fun.
Well, those looks great. But there's always something, right?
The magazine on the Scythe looks a tad small.
The patterns on the armour already look more like random noise than actual etching. And that's before you print it. Either make them stand out/sink in more or make the surface smooth.
TheDungen wrote: Great minis but i preferred the armoured feet. They aren't reptiles they're machines.the only organic part is the brain.
Does every piece of old fluff have to be kept in tact? Making organic/machine constructs is very much on the table with how our technology has advanced, and thus our sci-fi concepts have shifted. I feel the feet look fantastic!!!
Cybertronic would make good opponents for both Dark Legion and Brotherhood (they all hate each other quite a bit). Though if the game ends up having some kind of ally rules then Bauhaus and the Brotherhood are usually pretty tight (not at all times, especially with Bauhaus backing Cybertronic now, but traditionally they've been cool with each other).
The patterns on the armour already look more like random noise than actual etching. And that's before you print it. Either make them stand out/sink in more or make the surface smooth.
Don't mind a little random noise on DL stuff, but in this case it is replacing some very distinctive patterning. At least make an attempt to replicate the patterns.
I no longer know what I'm going to get with so many options. I'm at Cartel lvl and was going to go Brotherhood with some DL at the begining but somehow Capitol has infiltrated my wish list, and the Deathegg, and the Vulcan and the...
Nice Prets. Are they going to come in a 3 pack? I wonder if they will maintain that whole twin special ability they had in the past?
A shame they arent troops like in 1st ed. Was cool to play a small game with 2 with a razide for support.
Is there going to be a pledge manager later where you can increase your pledge and add on additional stuff? Also, with the Cartel/Brotherhood pledge can you drop one faction out and add another (ie Capitol) in?
It is for anyone paying for international shipping at the Dark Legion level or above. You get to select one £6.65 costed hero to cover a bit of the shipping.
Not to worry, still picking up steam on the KS front (the highest bump in new pledgers in weeks actually) and it still ended the day over £2000 in. Sucks that you have to drop down, but the game will come out and we are almost certain to hit £110k by the end, so when you have the cash you can reap the benefits of all the units that got unlocked.
Having funded by nearly 300% so far, I don't think we are in danger of losing Warzone this time around. Better to be conservative with your pledge now so you still have a roof over your head to stuff with more minis.
Azazelx wrote: Is there going to be a pledge manager later where you can increase your pledge and add on additional stuff? Also, with the Cartel/Brotherhood pledge can you drop one faction out and add another (ie Capitol) in?
I know I hope they will have a pledge manager after the kickstarter so I can add some more stuff. I had to drop my pledge down becauses of bills, but would love to be able to add more a week or so latter to get it back up.
While I was initially very impressed with the Bauhaus line's new look, the Capitol stuff shown so far has crossed back over the line towards the old goofy minis look. The bauhaus mech (both versions) was moderninzed but still had a taste of the flair of the old models (gas masks, spiked helm) but the rivets on WW2 looking designs aesthetics for Capitol is a bit too retro for me. On a side note, the purple sharks at least make for great 40k Ork Jetbikes if you replace the guns with bigger ones!
I agree - the new Capitol miniatures are making it easy to NOT pick Capitol, and I needed all the help I could get in paring down the list of factions I want to pick up!
I don't agree with those points being that I own all the old capitol stuff the new stuff is a thousand times better the only thing that capitol had back in the day was light infantry and the rangers that looked okay. I'm glad to see capitol get an overhaul i will be going capitol heavy along with the brotherhood.
inqscott wrote: I don't agree with those points being that I own all the old capitol stuff the new stuff is a thousand times better the only thing that capitol had back in the day was light infantry and the rangers that looked okay. I'm glad to see capitol get an overhaul i will be going capitol heavy along with the brotherhood.
And if I were in your shoes, I'd probably agree but I got rid of almost all my warzone stuff a few years ago (except for the books... couldn't find a buyer for them) as this capitol stuff looks like a good match next to the older stuff on the tabletop. From my new perspective of a player without a model collection (except for some lovely classic free marines whose models I kept for RPG characters), I was hoping for a more modernized look that matched the level of updating that the bauhaus models got. The capitol stuff they're showing are great resculpts of and true to the originals but they switched the percentage of modern versus classic that the bauhaus and cybertronic (to a slightly lesser extent) led me to believe would be the game wide aesthetic. It seems like every successive army they're coming out with gets less and less of an update in aesthetics (bauhuas, cybertronic, capitol). In 40k terms, the capitol guys are basically the equivalent of 2nd edition/3rd edition space marines reiteration (better scaled and symmetrical but faithful to the original design aesthetic of rogue trader) whereas I was hoping for the Dornian Heresy MkXVI armor reboot that bauhaus seemed to have gotten. I'm in the same boat as Alpharius in that the most radically redone guys are the ones I'm liking the most despite initially being most interested in the idea of a Capitol reboot.
It's due to lightning in the photobox, we had the same problem with this pic:
Might be worth giving the minis a hefty black wash next time then, because they really do seem to be lacking some of the detail of the digital sculpts.
I'm not sure I agree, I hated what they did to bauhaus at first, now its a little better but it became to much plastic and steel and to little cloth and mud. they ended up looking like imperial stormtropers (the star wars kind) rahter than dieselpunk, I still think they need bigger gasmasks and less breastplate but at least now they have backpaks.
Capitol I dont care much for, for background reasons. nah I'll go legion and the minis from bauhaus and brotherhood that i like.
also does anyone remember the backstory for the praetoarian behemoth? was it two stalkers and one razide or two razides and one stalker that they turned into a behemoth?
And which stalkers was it that got turned in this way?
Oddly, I think the Stormtrooper looks actually works quite well for them. I mean it isn't like Imperial Stormtroopers weren't aping WW1 Prussian and WW2 Nazi aesthetics already. So that the a faction that borrows heavily from continental European military aesthetics (not the least of which is Prussia), yeah I can see Bauhaus having a lot of similarities to the Galactic Empire in Starwars.
I kind of like that they are going back toward the 1st Edition aesthetics. Much more noble and shiny looking. Even a little ostentatious on some of them.
Mud and blood and the whole "Black Adder Goes Forth" look is more of an Imperial thing after all.
Bauhaus are ranks of orderly troops marching forward and dying valiantly for the corporation. Imperials are guys in muddy holes, surviving off of the rats they catch (taste better than rations!) and dying in a pool of their own blood and urine as they face down horrors man was not meant to face. It was what set the two WW1-inspired factions apart.
Bauhaus was clean and orderly, Imperial were rough and dirty. It's what made them such interesting rivals, because beneath the exterior they were so similar but presented in totally different ways. Again, this is one thing I didn't tend to like about the 2nd Edition remake of them. Other than removing the European Union and making them straight up Space Prussia, it added on a lot of trench warfare units (new-style Dragoons, Ducal Militia, etc.) that seemed to run counter to the more dashing nature of 1st Edition.
I also kind of like the aesthetic they are starting to get on units. The differentiation between units with those blocky, angled shoulders (mostly Hussars, though V-Rangers may have some) and the more rounded ones you find on elites who have likely had their armour custom-built. It gives a nice division between the commoners with mass-produced (but still good quality) gear and the movers and shakers with moulded armour pieces made just for them. This is probably my favourite iteration of Bauhaus to date.
Oh and they posted a render of Valerie Duval as well:
Looks to include bits from every version of her (and was probably easy to make because of all of the Etoiles pieces they have floating around right now). Unfortunately that means part of it is based on the Parente/Bisley line, but the upper body is largely Bonner inspired. The hair and breast-plate design are Bonner inspired and the weapons certainly look better than the tonfa-axes of the first version of the Etoiles. Still a little on the sci-fi female cliche side, but the more noticeable upper body armour helps (even if it is boob-plate). I still like the basic Etoiles more, but this is acceptable. And of course, should be easy to convert using an EM body and the rest of the Val bits. That is the upside to having a great basic kit for the unit type, much easier to convert.
And in purely positive news, the Kickstarter is really starting to take off now in the last few days. We're already at £117k and almost ready to pop over to £118. And the number of backers added daily has sky-rocketed from the handful per day of only a few weeks ago. It's up to 780 backers and today saw 22 new souls kick in. Projections are £124 on the low end and £140+ on the high end. If we see a big kick up on the last couple days then Mishima may not be out of reach after all.
My personal prediction is that the end rush probably wont see the same levels as the beginning but the last day may well be quite busy (maybe we'll even see another day that reaches close to £10k, like day 2). I think we may end up capping out just short of Mishima unless someone goes in for a really late-game high level pledge (which I am doubting). I think we may be able to get close to £130k before the end though. And I know I have another few upgrades to kick in before the end. It will be interesting to see where it goes.
I hope those armored Chaussers come with alternate heads. Those guys are just advertising for snipers. Doesnt make much sense for them to be all armored up and have their heads as obvious weak points, plus the heads pictured are kinda ugly. Rest of the model looks great.
Just think, if Mishima doesn't drop, then that just means that when they do after the KS, it will be a grand event with a lot of attention paid to it. It will probably also have a higher release density. If we make it to £140k, then it is just the starter. But a specific Mishima release will see a starter plus all the stuff needed to support it in one shot.
[under his breath]
It will also allow me to recover so that I can grab it as well since they were my third faction when I played originally.
Ronin_eX wrote: Just think, if Mishima doesn't drop, then that just means that when they do after the KS, it will be a grand event with a lot of attention paid to it.
Don't forget that the most popular faction isn't released either: Imperials.
About Mishima and Imperial. I think it would be better to be released as a couple with full options rather than just barely reaching the minimum for the Mishima release and only get a basic starter a a couple units extra.
I think it'd be nice if we could at least see a sneak peak of mishima before the kickstarter ended.
Ronin_eX wrote: Oddly, I think the Stormtrooper looks actually works quite well for them. I mean it isn't like Imperial Stormtroopers weren't aping WW1 Prussian and WW2 Nazi aesthetics already. So that the a faction that borrows heavily from continental European military aesthetics (not the least of which is Prussia), yeah I can see Bauhaus having a lot of similarities to the Galactic Empire in Starwars.
I kind of like that they are going back toward the 1st Edition aesthetics. Much more noble and shiny looking. Even a little ostentatious on some of them.
Mud and blood and the whole "Black Adder Goes Forth" look is more of an Imperial thing after all.
Bauhaus are ranks of orderly troops marching forward and dying valiantly for the corporation. Imperials are guys in muddy holes, surviving off of the rats they catch (taste better than rations!) and dying in a pool of their own blood and urine as they face down horrors man was not meant to face. It was what set the two WW1-inspired factions apart.
Bauhaus was clean and orderly, Imperial were rough and dirty. It's what made them such interesting rivals, because beneath the exterior they were so similar but presented in totally different ways. Again, this is one thing I didn't tend to like about the 2nd Edition remake of them. Other than removing the European Union and making them straight up Space Prussia, it added on a lot of trench warfare units (new-style Dragoons, Ducal Militia, etc.) that seemed to run counter to the more dashing nature of 1st Edition.
I also kind of like the aesthetic they are starting to get on units. The differentiation between units with those blocky, angled shoulders (mostly Hussars, though V-Rangers may have some) and the more rounded ones you find on elites who have likely had their armour custom-built. It gives a nice division between the commoners with mass-produced (but still good quality) gear and the movers and shakers with moulded armour pieces made just for them. This is probably my favourite iteration of Bauhaus to date.
Except the citizens of Imperial are free which the people of Bauhaus cannot claim to be they're the faction with the broadest gaps in society and no social advancement. it makes sense they'd treat their foot soldiers as an expandable commodity where imperial have far to few citizens to do that.
That's why I liked the ducal militia they represented that life was basically crap if you wasn't born in a good place in bauhaus. I mean they are the only corporation that does serfdom which is basically slavery.
And I don't mind shiny uniforms but then I want it to be sashes ,medals and epaulettes. the Napoleon III look or the bismark look. But I want there to be an an obvious difference between the shiny soldier in his strict clean uniform they show on tv and the gritty reality.
Then again once I start painting mud and rust on them they'll look far more down to earth I guess.
Oh and I'm still wondering if anyone remember the backstory of how the behemoth is created. its on the back of the box that the behemoth came in, unfortunately i must have thrown mine away ages ago.
Yeah they are feudal so they're as bad I guess. In fact slightly worse, Bauahus always rolled 2 d3 +2 for their social level while I believe mishima just rolled a d10.
And Ronin would it be so strange that Imperial and Bauhaus as more similar to each other than any other two factions didn't Imperial form from a splinter group of Bauhaus, i remember Bauhaus commenting on that what happened with cybertronic had happened once before with imperial. and that they remembered the time when there was only 3 mega corps.
Wait, does than mean the others were Light Infantry and the characteristic WW1 Doughboy hats are gone?
That would be like Imperials losing berets and tommy helmets to become just generic SciFi fighters.
Kroothawk wrote: Wait, does than mean the others were Light Infantry and the characteristic WW1 Doughboy hats are gone?
That would be like Imperials losing berets and tommy helmets to become just generic SciFi fighters.
While I did like the light infantry doughboy hats, I think adding headgear to capitol is opening up a very dangerous can of worms. The other two of the historic capitol head flair choices are the abyssmal football helmets and baseball caps.
As for the heavy infantry, I'm happy to see them suitably updated and without WW2 rivet-laden armor like the shark and orca.
Maybe but these power armours (both the capitol and bauhaus versions) are weird they couldn't possibly function without electronics and only cybertronic has those.
It is actually perfectly fine for armies to utilize some simple electronics. Remember, the corporations trade a lot and Capitol and Bauhaus are both on good terms with Cybertronic. So getting a hold of the advanced components needed to make power armour isn't terribly difficult. That's how it was usually explained in old background material.
I think Mishima may also be able to develop some higher-tech stuff as well since they seem to have access to a lot of simple robots (Warheads) as well as advanced Meka and the like. Though they may have also been supplied by Cybertronic.
Remember, none of the corporations are an island. Bauhaus makes high-percision pieces for other companies, Capitol probably has the industrial capacity for large manufacturing jobs, Cybertronic has secrets that allow them to produce complex electronics, etc. They will all make use of each other's strengths even as they have their hands wrapped around the other's throat.
£125k - KS Limited Mishima Doomtrooper Tatsumoto becomes a playable hero, with the addition of four cards including a stat card.
£130k - Imperial Doomtrooper Blood Beret, (name to be confirmed). This model can be bought in multiple copies and will come with two weapon options (close and ranged). He will be fully playable in the game and can join any human faction as a hero. He can even pair up with Tatsumto or as a pair of Imperial Doomtroopers. He will come with rule cards, including stat lines.
We will make at least 1000 copies of this model, but if demand outstrips this we will meet the demand. He will cost £6.65 per copy, you can buy as many copies as you want.
What is it with the samurai or samurai homage figures in everything these days (kensei kickstarter, the image above, puppets war's new bits, and andrea miniatures). Not complaining, it's just a very interesting trend!
Well Tatsumoto there at least has a bit of history. He's based of a piece of art by Paul Bonner from the older editions of the game (2nd Edition specifically). That faction he is part of just happens to be the archetypal East Asian hodge-podge faction from the 90's. Back then it was basically Target's Warzone/Mutant Chronicles and FASA's Draconis Combine (BattleTech) that created the prototype that all later East Asian hodge-podge factions in wargames would either borrow heavily from or try to stay away from at all costs (kind of like the Tolkiens of whole aesthetic really).
Funny that the trend is coming back in force around the same time that one of the games that set it in the first place is coming back to market.
Two questions to Prodos:
1.) Is the WW1 style, that defined most of Capitol and Imperial troops and made Warzone so popular, dead?
2.) Is it correct that if the kickstarter reaches 130k, the most famous Imperial hero is locked to Imperial players, but unlocked to everyone else?
I can't understand the reasoning behind those two decisions. The first one robbs the Warzone miniature range of its specific flavour and makes it rather generic. The second one skrews Imperial fans for no reason.
1. Yeah they've gone slightly more towards sci-fi and away from dieslpunk. I'd say that bauhaus and imperial was the most diselpunk in the old versions, capitol was always more vietnam/space cowboy.*
2. Imperial player may chip in 6.65£ for the limited edition blood beret just like anyone else from what i understand provided we actually hit 130k .
They couldn't start with all factions and since imperial has been in all starter boxes thus far they decided to wait with them this time.
1) Huh? Imperial was all WW1 aesthetics, but Capitol was embedded in the 50's and 60's with full on jingoism, corporate greed and Vietnam war aesthetics. I'm not seeing how their look is dead. Bulky, straight lines are a pretty big part of Capitolian aesthetics. The Heavy Infantry seem to really be running with that.
2) Huh*2?? First, that isn't McBride they will be selling, but if you want to show a picture of a Blood Beret without a bunch of noise around him, that picture is pretty good for such a purpose. It may even be modelled specifically on that piece of art, but in the end it will still just be another named Doomtrooper instead of one of the iconic characters of Warzone. Lastly, what is to stop an Imperial player from kicking in for a small pledge total. Go in for £19 and trade in for a Doomtrooper or two and a t-shirt. Seriously, the model will even come with ranged and CC variant arms, so buying multiples of him is fine. Just because other people are grabbing hundred of pounds in stuff doesn't mean you can't go in for a bit and grab a few random bits and bobs if missing out on an exclusive is that important to you.
Warzone has had power armour and mechs in it since day one, and Capitol has always been about the 50's and 60's instead of the early 20th Century like Imperial and Bauhaus. Giving capitol some big, chunky power armoured troops hardly robs them of their aesthetics and one unit is hardly reason to get up in arms about Warzone losing its specific flavour. That is a bit hyperbolic. As for the the exclusive mini, there are options for people only interested in that mini and since it is still useful in multiples grabbing 1-3 of them in a single small pledge is perfectly acceptable. No one is locked out, but pure Imperial players only need to kick in for the lowest level that allows add-ons to grab one, specific model.
Again, I'm not sure what people expect from Prodos. They give old designs and people complain that they aren't modernizing. They give new designs and people complain that they are killing Warzone's aesthetics (which is a massive hodge-podge as it is). The leave Imperial of the table and people complain. They throw them a bone with a low entry cost and people complain that Imperial players are left out in the cold. People complain about lack of incentives for the Kickstarter and Prodos give out a ton of freebies and exclusives. People complain that there are exclusives and how unfair that is!
It is a bit crazy if you ask me.
Bottom line is Imperial players aren't locked out of the exclusive because low pledge-levels give them access to it. And the Heavy Infantry aren't all that far outside of Warzone's comfort zone in terms of technology and aesthetics.
I'm not sure there ever was a WW1 feel to Capitol. The original infantry were football players in football armor (sometimes with baseball caps if they were light infantry) and the special forces built off of that to better effect.
The only troops that had a WW1 vibe were from second edition: The redesigned light infantry and the rangers.
Now to be honest I was kind of hoping that the current Capitol infantry were the heavy infantry and that we would see proper light infantry (remove some of the arm armor, remove the upper leg pads, give them proper combat boots rather than the stompy blocks they currently have).
Still Imperial better keep the WW1 vibe- that is their schtick... at least for the Imperial forces that wear pants
TheDungen wrote: Mark has said it well in his interviews " You cant make everyone happy" and its as simple as that.
Also anyone want to support me for convincing them to make this guy? I have no idea who he is but he's a named Blood beret and a doomtrooper so...
I'm all for that, would be nice to see some minor personalities get some love. Lord knows there were enough head-shots of random characters in the 1st Edition book to keep them going for ages.
You could always keep in at £1, I think they will be doing post KS pledge increases. So on the off chance you get a bit of spare cash before the second cut-off then you could increase from there. And if not, you get the shiny PDF anyways.
The foot rest is alittle odd, since it looks like he has to rest his foot on what looks like a hot exhaust pipe. Also one of the guns is off center. lol
Odds are good that Mishima could be in before the end, but maybe not until the 'last minute rush' - I hope they're ready and prepared with renders and so forth...
What Ronin said. Other than the funny cap Capitol was never heavy on WW1, yeah they had the huge trains running around Mars but in the fluff where always pictured mobile and with lots of air cav.
Again I will wish that we don't reach Mishima, I'm well served with my old stuff for now and personally I prefer a more complete army later on than a few rushed units now. But my number one worry based in a comment from Mark on the Spanish FB page is that apparently Mishima and Imperial won't be in the rulebook WTF? I can live without miniatures but not including those seems heresy, I hope that taking into account that Mark was using google translate the lack of Mishima and Imperial comment was only limited to miniatures.
Jacobus, I know what you mean, with the hydra feel, though I'm not so sure I approve. they also remind me somewhat of the goons from The league of extraordinary gentlemen.
And that's kind of my problem with the whole hussar design that just because they're german/european they have to be designed after mooks and henchmen? I'd prefer the influences be taken from "All quit on the western front" instead
Or if an elite regiment either their namesakes hussars or the Black Brunwickers (they cant make a full unit based on these anyway because people will mistake them for SS with their black uniforms and totenkopf).
Oh sorry, I suck at spelling (you'll note the high number of edits on my posts that's usually spelling errors). I Know what the book is called, well I know what the books original tile is and means, the english tile I actually had to look up.
So I fancy pledging enough to get a everasseur and a box of Bauhaus troopers. I was thinking of pledging the t-shirt and box level and pay the difference but couldn't find out how much the t-shirt traded in for. So if one of you helpful chaps could let know that or if there is a better way to pledge for what I want then that would be great. Cheers.
-huge machete the art is picturing. I'm personally pretty fond of the Free Marine concepts, they look very Space 'Nam. It looks like it is going to be an awesomely diverse unit.
