Then we get to listen to the presenters gush about how great the 20+ year old models are and how nostalgic they are for WHFB for 10 minutes while offering us little additional information of value.
I'm not even sure we would be that lucky. Last time I watched a stream it was for AoS and one guy was hyping it all up and asked the other one had he been working on anything recently. Without anything even resembling emotion was like "No". Never seen a presentation go so stale so fast.
If they can't get anyone to be excited about "The current best selling fantasy game" (Specifically people hired to BE EXCITED about said game) I'd be highly surprised if they can even get any of them to gush about a re-released game that was last available before most of the current staff were even born.
This parade of awesome articles will culminate on Saturday with an extra-special live reveal show on the Warhammer Twitch Channel. Things kick off at 2pm BST, and there’s a real welter of stuff to unveil: new books and miniatures for Warhammer 40,000 and Warhammer Age of Sigmar, a new box and a new faction for Kill Team, and big news for Warhammer: The Old World.
This parade of awesome articles will culminate on Saturday with an extra-special live reveal show on the Warhammer Twitch Channel. Things kick off at 2pm BST, and there’s a real welter of stuff to unveil: new books and miniatures for Warhammer 40,000 and Warhammer Age of Sigmar, a new box and a new faction for Kill Team, and big news for Warhammer: The Old World.
with GW liking to play with words, "big news" can mean anything
from a release date, to showing of the rumoured boxes, the game itself but also just the old Albion Giants as resin model.
I get exited the day after if there really was something of interest
„Dear Warhammer fans,
Today, I have good news and not so good news.
But first, let me apologize for the long wait and the mixed communication since the annoucement of TOW years ago.
At that time, we knew that there were still many fans passionate about WFB who were looking forward to a return to the Old World, just like us. That’s why we started this project: to bring you Warhammer in the Old World back, including the fantastic lore and art, a great ruleset and of course awesome miniatures to collect and play with.
However, since we revealed more of TOW at Warhammer Fest in May and the following weeks, the tremendous amount of interest in the game really surpassed our wildest dreams and we are truly humbled by your passion for the setting.
But it also made it abundantly clear that the scope of the project would fall flat in the face of the expectations of one of our most valued fan base.
So we made the difficult decision, just like with Adeptus Titanicus in the past, to delay the game a bit further in order to return to the Old World in a way that is befitting its 40 year old legacy and shows that we truely care about the setting.
Today, I am happy to announce that when Warhammer the Old Wolrd will return, it will eventually support all 17 factions of previous editions which, over time, will receive all new miniatures in plastic in order to refresh the miniature range and to make the game accessible for old fans of the setting as well as for players starting their adventure in the Old World for the first time.
To make the wait more enjoyable, we will make all WFB miniatures released since January 1st, 2000 available through our Made to Order programm, one army each month starting with Bretonnia in November. You will also be able to download any WFB rulebook and army book released since January 1st, 2000 for free from WarCom, so you can study the setting and play some games until Warhammer: The Old World arrives in 2025.
Thank you for your passion and continued support!„
That would be „big news“.
And after thinking about it, that would be my preferred way of a return to the Old World.
I'd be surprised if it weren't the launch announcement, unless the game is scheduled for 2025.
Its the 40th anniversary of WHFB and fewer games are being previewed than usual. AoS 4th edition is most likely going to occupy next year's schedule and hype. Both AoS and 40K offerings are probably going to be just the next codex and battletome releases, and Scorpions and Scouts for Kill Team. With a mere single model for The Old World thats not really worth a preview event, and especially bearing the name "Warhammer Day".
„Dear Warhammer fans,
Today, I have good news and not so good news.
But first, let me apologize for the long wait and the mixed communication since the annoucement of TOW years ago.
At that time, we knew that there were still many fans passionate about WFB who were looking forward to a return to the Old World, just like us. That’s why we started this project: to bring you Warhammer in the Old World back, including the fantastic lore and art, a great ruleset and of course awesome miniatures to collect and play with.
However, since we revealed more of TOW at Warhammer Fest in May and the following weeks, the tremendous amount of interest in the game really surpassed our wildest dreams and we are truly humbled by your passion for the setting.
But it also made it abundantly clear that the scope of the project would fall flat in the face of the expectations of one of our most valued fan base.
So we made the difficult decision, just like with Adeptus Titanicus in the past, to delay the game a bit further in order to return to the Old World in a way that is befitting its 40 year old legacy and shows that we truely care about the setting.
Today, I am happy to announce that when Warhammer the Old Wolrd will return, it will eventually support all 17 factions of previous editions which, over time, will receive all new miniatures in plastic in order to refresh the miniature range and to make the game accessible for old fans of the setting as well as for players starting their adventure in the Old World for the first time.
To make the wait more enjoyable, we will make all WFB miniatures released since January 1st, 2000 available through our Made to Order programm, one army each month starting with Bretonnia in November. You will also be able to download any WFB rulebook and army book released since January 1st, 2000 for free from WarCom, so you can study the setting and play some games until Warhammer: The Old World arrives in 2025.
Thank you for your passion and continued support!„
That would be „big news“.
And after thinking about it, that would be my preferred way of a return to the Old World.
Wishlisting.
But I agree. Any pdf release would be preferable by now.
scarletsquig wrote: I think the rumour is probably legit, since the official warhammer community article does reference models from the 1990's returning, which doesn't include anything released post-6th edition (October 2000).
The skeletons are 1990's sculpts, which the WarCom article did say we are getting.
The base size change has come about because some of those ‘90s and ‘00s models became difficult to rank up
Mantic is going to be making bank on their 2022 not-tomb-king hard plastics at this rate, the 6th edition Bretonnians are great, the 4th edition skeletons not so much.
On a side note, the images in the article hint at a return to the classic lance formation.
I'm just happy that some classic minis will be available again so I can buy some new stuff for 6th edition games, highly likely that I'll go for a couple of brettonian boxes, it sounds like a good ratio of units in the box. For the inevitability overpriced resin, I'll look to 3d prints rather than £60 Forge World minis.
I think those Mantic sculpts could cost pennies and I'd struggle to summon any interest.
To be fair, I'd say that about a lot of the 6th Ed Bretonnian range as well.
They obviously do not have the production capacity to support anything like 1 army made to order a month.
They have a certain capacity that they are able to dedicate to ToW and that's what will be dictating how many factions they are able to support over this first planned period of the game.
Mood music definitely seems to be pointing to starter set being announced on the 14th.
Vorian wrote: They obviously do not have the production capacity to support anything like 1 army made to order a month.
They have a certain capacity that they are able to dedicate to ToW and that's what will be dictating how many factions they are able to support over this first planned period of the game.
Mood music definitely seems to be pointing to starter set being announced on the 14th.
Rumour is that there won't be a starter set so much as some faction boxes.
Vorian wrote: They obviously do not have the production capacity to support anything like 1 army made to order a month.
They have a certain capacity that they are able to dedicate to ToW and that's what will be dictating how many factions they are able to support over this first planned period of the game.
Mood music definitely seems to be pointing to starter set being announced on the 14th.
The 2025 prediction makes sense given the ongoing rollout of 40k. GW could basically have the games leapfrog each other to make the churn even more continuous.
kodos wrote: 1 army per month as MtO is not equal 1 army produced & delivered each month
an MtO can take a year to get done and they can still add a new army every month for orders
They would still need to be made at some point, they are struggling to keep pace with their current release schedule and keep other things in stock as it is.
There is no realistic prospect of them introducing an army a month into their production bottleneck any time soon.
Rumour is that there won't be a starter set so much as some faction boxes.
I seem to remember the issue being confusion around what a starter set is. I think what we'll get is what 99% of us would consider to be a starter set (Brets vs TK).
I seem to remember the issue being confusion around what a starter set is. I think what we'll get is what 99% of us would consider to be a starter set (Brets vs TK).
Only 11 days to go to see I guess.
The most accurate rumor mongers are saying a box for each army, no starter.
Yeah, rumor is separate boxes,1for TK and 1 for Brets for the initial launch, BUT there have been some rumors that a more proper 2 player starter set will follow at some point in the not too distant future, though that box won't necessarily be TK vs Brets. That ties in to the whole "soft launch" rumor thats been going around, the Bret and TK boxes are there to have something to show, basically, but the "real" Old World release (ie all the new stuff they've been working on) will be later.
Didn’t someone at GW say there was a box with two army’s coming?
Or was that more just an idea they had.
Seperate I think here GW has killed a lot of enthusiasm for it, I do think there was some players willing to start.
And just hoping for good rules, but it fizzled out with this weird GW strategy.
Like I feel the rules can’t be taking all this time, and a couple of new minis should have been easy for GW to work out.
Limited return over time to bring it back when the hype was hot.
Given the links with CA/Total War - they developed entire Army books for them - it probably does not help that CA has tried to destroy itself with "Hyenas" and Sega are slicing them to pieces as a tax write off.
I seem to remember the issue being confusion around what a starter set is. I think what we'll get is what 99% of us would consider to be a starter set (Brets vs TK).
Only 11 days to go to see I guess.
The most accurate rumor mongers are saying a box for each army, no starter.
Are these rumours from outside this thread or have I manged to miss something?
the only rumour about a 2 armies box comes from the social media post that "no 2 player starter box" does not mean "no starter box" but that GW understands something different under that term
I seem to remember the issue being confusion around what a starter set is. I think what we'll get is what 99% of us would consider to be a starter set (Brets vs TK).
Only 11 days to go to see I guess.
The most accurate rumor mongers are saying a box for each army, no starter.
Are these rumours from outside this thread or have I manged to miss something?
It's been mentioned in here in a few places, but news and rumours rarely come to dakka first hand these days.
I expect the big news to be to Celebrate Warhammer turning 50 the Old World will be held back until then. Obviously I'm kidding but with GW you never know..
Apple fox wrote: Didn’t someone at GW say there was a box with two army’s coming?
Or was that more just an idea they had.
Seperate I think here GW has killed a lot of enthusiasm for it, I do think there was some players willing to start.
And just hoping for good rules, but it fizzled out with this weird GW strategy.
Like I feel the rules can’t be taking all this time, and a couple of new minis should have been easy for GW to work out.
Limited return over time to bring it back when the hype was hot.
Just a classics series with the old army boxes for bretonnians and tomb kings, or their battallion box sets would probably have sold out easily due to nostalgia and fomo. Old artwork and all.
Mr Morden wrote: Given the links with CA/Total War - they developed entire Army books for them - it probably does not help that CA has tried to destroy itself with "Hyenas" and Sega are slicing them to pieces as a tax write off.
CA brought that on themselves though with questionable leadership and even worse developpers not wanting to state the higher ups the facts.
Mr Morden wrote: Given the links with CA/Total War - they developed entire Army books for them - it probably does not help that CA has tried to destroy itself with "Hyenas" and Sega are slicing them to pieces as a tax write off.
CA brought that on themselves though with questionable leadership and even worse developpers not wanting to state the higher ups the facts.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: I don't know if it's just the build/angle, but those wings look absurdly big. And the mane looks weird. But other than that looks alright.
the guy building it mentions on reddit that the wings are lot bigger than from other Warhammer models, so not just the angle
Inquisitor Gideon wrote:I don't know if it's just the build/angle, but those wings look absurdly big. And the mane looks weird. But other than that looks alright.
kodos wrote:
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: I don't know if it's just the build/angle, but those wings look absurdly big. And the mane looks weird. But other than that looks alright.
the guy building it mentions on reddit that the wings are lot bigger than from other Warhammer models, so not just the angle
In order for something the size and weight of a horse to fly, it will need very large wings.
If anything pretty much every winged miniature in wfb history has comically tiny wings for their size.
Since it won't be on a 40mm square base anymore, it should be fine. Besides, previous pegasus was nice and all, but no way its small wings could have supported its body in flight. Just joking, it's fantasy, horses that can fly are already silly.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote:I don't know if it's just the build/angle, but those wings look absurdly big. And the mane looks weird. But other than that looks alright.
kodos wrote:
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: I don't know if it's just the build/angle, but those wings look absurdly big. And the mane looks weird. But other than that looks alright.
the guy building it mentions on reddit that the wings are lot bigger than from other Warhammer models, so not just the angle
In order for something the size and weight of a horse to fly, it will need very large wings.
If anything pretty much every winged miniature in wfb history has comically tiny wings for their size.
While true, various scientists have done the math on pegasi over the years. It just doesn't work. Winged humans are (barely) within the tolerances of physics (with some liberties taken for the muscle arrangements that would be necessary), but horses are right out.
The trend toward larger wings on warhammer models is definitely a good one, though. It helps the grim reality of the setting if they aren't as common as dirt, and something everyone sees in large numbers in every army muster.
Lets face it for a long time horses and dragons were just smaller to save on materials and the cost of producing moulds. If you look at a lot of more modern GW mounted models the mounts themselves are much better sized for their riders. There was a period where every horse or mythical mount was basically ponysized.
Wings too were often much smaller and even now you won't get fully realistically sized wings unfolded because they take up a huge amount of space.
That said with GW able to make bigger stuff viably now I do like to see some decently sized wings
Hellebore wrote: In order for something the size and weight of a horse to fly, it will need very large wings.
If anything pretty much every winged miniature in wfb history has comically tiny wings for their size.
yeah, either actually wings with which the model would be able to fly, which are still way too small on that model
or just skip the "realistic" for magical creatures completely
either make it realistic or not comical wings at least should be fitting the model and be a disadvantage for gaming
Yeah, the old wings didn't seem so small when they were made out of metal and you were trying to get them to stick to the torso with super glue. Sometimes I imagine all these fantasy worlds just have atmospheres filled with high amounts of a really heavy gas. So dragons can fly and people can do high backflips and such with ease.
Apparently this is the assembled Pegasus seen on the leaked sprue. If Valrak is accurate, this will be for the hero in the new box set.
Good looking model. Right mix of fantastic and mundane elements. I am positive towards the aestethics of ToW.
I think all the new models look great, which makes the decision to bring back old ugly ones even more stupid. Excited to see what plastic kit tomb kings get
The new Peg looks great, I wish the wings were smaller though, for gaming and storage purposes.
I remember hating the old Pegasus knight wings because they are so tiny, but after gaming with and transporting around other models with bigger wings I grew to appreciate them.
Until now I thought since pegasus sprue didn't have any gates to other sprues it would be a standalone sprue that could be sold with multiple rider sprues to make different kits. (like how HH does it with many kits in that most of the sprues are the same but a few are swapped out to make different vehicles)
But I just thought of another solution. What if the rider is in resin? Since everything else they showed until now was resin it wouldn't surprise me and the rider would have more details then the pegasus so would make sense.
Matrindur wrote: Until now I thought since pegasus sprue didn't have any gates to other sprues it would be a standalone sprue that could be sold with multiple rider sprues to make different kits. (like how HH does it with many kits in that most of the sprues are the same but a few are swapped out to make different vehicles)
But I just thought of another solution. What if the rider is in resin? Since everything else they showed until now was resin it wouldn't surprise me and the rider would have more details then the pegasus so would make sense.
That's not how GW/FW does hybrid kits. Hybrid kits are done as upgrades to plastic retail kits, which means the Pegasus is either designed to be riderless(doubtful) or there's a sprue we haven't seen with at least one rider.
HH has had kits split up specifically to allow for modularity. Mount as one sprue and then rider as a seperate sprue. Then mix and match as needed- say a Pegasus kit with a lord rider, then a later horse mount reusing the same lord sprue to make ground cav version.
Matrindur wrote: Until now I thought since pegasus sprue didn't have any gates to other sprues it would be a standalone sprue that could be sold with multiple rider sprues to make different kits. (like how HH does it with many kits in that most of the sprues are the same but a few are swapped out to make different vehicles)
But I just thought of another solution. What if the rider is in resin? Since everything else they showed until now was resin it wouldn't surprise me and the rider would have more details then the pegasus so would make sense.
That's not how GW/FW does hybrid kits. Hybrid kits are done as upgrades to plastic retail kits, which means the Pegasus is either designed to be riderless(doubtful) or there's a sprue we haven't seen with at least one rider.
Not how they have done in the past but doesn't mean it couldn't happen in the future. Of course its likelier its just to be used with different plastic riders but I just wanted to share the thought
So, I'm not familiar with the old kits. Looking at the shiny new horsey, is it just me or do the feathers close to the torso extend very far to the back? Do we think the shadowy area behind them offers enough room for the rider's legs? It looks kind of strange to me, like it's not meant to take a normal rider. Or maybe that's just the angle.
Geifer wrote: So, I'm not familiar with the old kits. Looking at the shiny new horsey, is it just me or do the feathers close to the torso extend very far to the back? Do we think the shadowy area behind them offers enough room for the rider's legs? It looks kind of strange to me, like it's not meant to take a normal rider. Or maybe that's just the angle.
Looks like a nice sculpt, though.
From this angle it looks like the rider is supposed to sit on an elevated saddle of some sort.
Matrindur wrote: Until now I thought since pegasus sprue didn't have any gates to other sprues it would be a standalone sprue that could be sold with multiple rider sprues to make different kits. (like how HH does it with many kits in that most of the sprues are the same but a few are swapped out to make different vehicles)
But I just thought of another solution. What if the rider is in resin? Since everything else they showed until now was resin it wouldn't surprise me and the rider would have more details then the pegasus so would make sense.
That's not how GW/FW does hybrid kits. Hybrid kits are done as upgrades to plastic retail kits, which means the Pegasus is either designed to be riderless(doubtful) or there's a sprue we haven't seen with at least one rider.
Not how they have done in the past but doesn't mean it couldn't happen in the future. Of course its likelier its just to be used with different plastic riders but I just wanted to share the thought
Having both materials as main kit(as opposed to resin upgrade pieces) gets rather inefficient. Basically lose the point of plastic sprue as you can't take full advantage of mass sales.
Guess gw could have started to hate profits but somehow i doubt that.
I don't think I've ever seen GW sell a plastic mount without a plastic rider.
I think it's much more likely that Sir Generique will come with the plastic kit and then GW dazzles you with a fancy, resin upgrade for a special character rider (probably with an alternate head for the mount).
plastic mounts with metal rider were the standard for a long time in Warhammer
and if they are bringing the old models back, it might be again (although metal is much more expensive now so we might see resin instead)
kodos wrote: plastic mounts with metal rider were the standard for a long time in Warhammer
and if they are bringing the old models back, it might be again (although metal is much more expensive now so we might see resin instead)
Accepting that things were once one way, I'd be surprised to see mixed medium kits. When is the last time GW released one? Not counting 'upgrades' which require purchase of two different items. I mean one kit with plastic and resin / metal in it.
kodos wrote: plastic mounts with metal rider were the standard for a long time in Warhammer
and if they are bringing the old models back, it might be again (although metal is much more expensive now so we might see resin instead)
Accepting that things were once one way, I'd be surprised to see mixed medium kits. When is the last time GW released one? Not counting 'upgrades' which require purchase of two different items. I mean one kit with plastic and resin / metal in it.
The mixed metal plastic mounted kits relied on the horses (or boar or wolves) being fairly generic and replicatable across multiple kits (or a very common kit).
Looking at it, this pegasus isn't really that. Its going to be a rare enough choice that they might as well go and do the rider on the same set of sprues.
I really like the fact that the rider is not part of the mount sculpt. Gives me high hopes for the new stuff they make.
Suppose you have an old favourite hero, you could probably mount it on the new grand pegasus.
One of my favourite sculpts for Fantasy battle is the high elf prince on griffon from island of blood. But I have two, and its almost impossible to make alterations to the noble Prince.
Let me rephrase that; I've never seen a post 2000's hero-choice mount in plastic that didn't come with a plastic rider. I wasn't talking about cavalry, which has had generic plastic mounts for metal riders since time immemorial.
KidCthulhu wrote: Let me rephrase that; I've never seen a hero-choice mount in plastic that didn't come with a plastic rider. I wasn't talking about cavalry, which has had generic plastic mounts for metal riders since time immemorial.
The plastic Talisman dragon did duty as both a Dogs of War and Dark Elf mount for a while. Its wing pieces went into otherwise fully metal monsters as well.
KidCthulhu wrote: Let me rephrase that; I've never seen a hero-choice mount in plastic that didn't come with a plastic rider. I wasn't talking about cavalry, which has had generic plastic mounts for metal riders since time immemorial.
The plastic Talisman dragon did duty as both a Dogs of War and Dark Elf mount for a while. Its wing pieces went into otherwise fully metal monsters as well.
I literally added "post 2000's" to my comment just as this came in. I do remember briefly when you could buy the plastic dragon by itself. That serpentine spade-tailed bugger was the basis of almost everybody's dragons in the 90's
KidCthulhu wrote: Let me rephrase that; I've never seen a hero-choice mount in plastic that didn't come with a plastic rider. I wasn't talking about cavalry, which has had generic plastic mounts for metal riders since time immemorial.
The plastic Talisman dragon did duty as both a Dogs of War and Dark Elf mount for a while. Its wing pieces went into otherwise fully metal monsters as well.
I literally added "post 2000's" to my comment just as this came in. I do remember briefly when you could buy the plastic dragon by itself. That serpentine spade-tailed bugger was the basis of almost everybody's dragons in the 90's
Why they never bothered to do the same with a feather-winged monster as well is a mystery to me. Plastic wings for Pegasuses, Griffons and Hippogriffs would've been neat.
kodos wrote: plastic mounts with metal rider were the standard for a long time in Warhammer
and if they are bringing the old models back, it might be again (although metal is much more expensive now so we might see resin instead)
Accepting that things were once one way, I'd be surprised to see mixed medium kits. When is the last time GW released one? Not counting 'upgrades' which require purchase of two different items. I mean one kit with plastic and resin / metal in it.
They did recently redesign a bunch of Horus Heresy vehicles recently to use the new plastic sponson weapon sprues instead of the original resin ones.
kodos wrote: plastic mounts with metal rider were the standard for a long time in Warhammer
and if they are bringing the old models back, it might be again (although metal is much more expensive now so we might see resin instead)
Accepting that things were once one way, I'd be surprised to see mixed medium kits. When is the last time GW released one? Not counting 'upgrades' which require purchase of two different items. I mean one kit with plastic and resin / metal in it.
They did recently redesign a bunch of Horus Heresy vehicles recently to use the new plastic sponson weapon sprues instead of the original resin ones.
Those plastic sponsons exist because full plastic vehicle kits that use those sponsons exist.
If we take that as a recent precedent for GW's willingness to do hybrid kits again, we should also assume that GW committed to at least one plastic hero for the pegasus, even if the others are resin characters packed with the plastic horsey.
"He is the first of many reveals coming this week for Warhammer: The Old World and a host of other games, but you’ll need to tune into the live stream to catch them"
KidCthulhu wrote: Hopefully this means they're really pushing plastic foot knights when the army releases.
They confirmed on twitter that tue standard bearer is resin. I think the Pegasus and a Tomb king centrepiece are the only plastics were going to get in the first wave.
"He is the first of many reveals coming this week for Warhammer: The Old World and a host of other games, but you’ll need to tune into the live stream to catch them"
No game in 2023 or 2024.
We'll probably see some infantry and a pegasus. Thats it.
KidCthulhu wrote: Hopefully this means they're really pushing plastic foot knights when the army releases.
We will get a single plastic hero for each army (upon that armies release), twenty year old plastic, resin and metal kits that didn't look great when they were new and the rest will be resin.
KidCthulhu wrote: Hopefully this means they're really pushing plastic foot knights when the army releases.
It's resin.
Yes, thisBSB model is resin, but we saw renders of Foot Knight parts long ago. It makes more sense to but a Foot Knight BSB in a Foot Knight unit than a Men-At-Arms unit. That's what I was getting at.
KidCthulhu wrote: Hopefully this means they're really pushing plastic foot knights when the army releases.
It's resin.
Yes, thisBSB model is resin, but we saw renders of Foot Knight parts long ago. It makes more sense to but a Foot Knight BSB in a Foot Knight unit than a Men-At-Arms unit. That's what I was getting at.
Do renders automatically mean plastics? The resin masters would also have been designed digitally right? (Unless of course they confirmed those parts to be plastic back then)
Okay, that's fair. I was going to say I've never seen fully modular resin FW Fantasy infantry, but that doesn't mean they haven't done that before. I just remembered FW Chaos Dwarves were a thing.
Also, to further show my age & ignorance, I assumed FW infantry-sized models were still sculpted by hand.
KidCthulhu wrote: Hopefully this means they're really pushing plastic foot knights when the army releases.
It's resin.
Yes, thisBSB model is resin, but we saw renders of Foot Knight parts long ago. It makes more sense to but a Foot Knight BSB in a Foot Knight unit than a Men-At-Arms unit. That's what I was getting at.
Should note that amidst those renders shown, the 3 helmets that were all believed to be for the plastic foot knights have subsequently been confirmed to be for the 3 resin characters now revealed so nothing is definite.
That said; I'd be surprised if those sword arms weren't for a Foot Knight unit and if they're not plastic then that's just disappointing all round.
Hmm, it just occurred to me that with the model reveals so heavily slanted towards Bretonnia, the whole thing feels more like they're showing off a new army book instead of an entire game. Of course the army got neglected before GW exploded the setting and they deserve every new model they get. It does feel kind of weird, though, and maybe another candidate for the long list of issues with GW's marketing campaign for The Old World.
KidCthulhu wrote: Let me rephrase that; I've never seen a post 2000's hero-choice mount in plastic that didn't come with a plastic rider. I wasn't talking about cavalry, which has had generic plastic mounts for metal riders since time immemorial.
Never been a superfan of the enormously thick banner style. Like seriously that’s five inches of felt or quilted linen or something. Dude doesn’t need armour; he can just hide behind the flag. Which probably weighs more than him, now I think about it.
That's essentially the mounted standard bearer, except dismounted. Strangely, he looks significantly better on foot as far as proportions are concerned, so maybe the mounted version is simply let down by the photos.
The fact they are showing off a new model today should mean they have a slightly meatier reveal this time round, but the more they finally reveal the weirder this release is becoming.
It all feels very cobbled together out of 8th ed scraps, and not really what I'd expect from a company leading the fantasy wargames industry. Still, I welcome the chance to buy cheap(ish) tomb kings again and the resin models should be easily picked up 2nd hand a few months later once all the FOMO calms down.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Fayric wrote: What is he carrying on his back? I thought it was a shield first, but he carries the shield at the hip.
I thought it was a book at first, but that pointed top is a little bit like the old grail/relic backpacks some of the questing knights had.
Lets not forget 8th-edition "scraps" is what would have created 9th edition Old World anyway before GW Blew everything up.
A good few armies at the end of Old World had some pretty modern models in their roster. Models that more than stand up today and heck a good number of them are right in Age of Sigmar right now.
So GW can certainly bring back al ot of models. Plus I bet you a good many of the good ones would be models people who are fans of Old World, will want. Tomb Kings might have some dodgy old Skeletons that need an update, but things like the skeletons riding snake constructs and such were pretty new and are more than capable of standing up to modern standards of sculpting.
As this is a big nostalgia release too it makes even more sense to include.
The only real issue is that its been a very drawn out release and we, as customers, are not used to that from GW. We are used to seeing X and getting it within 3 or 6 months and that's it. Waiting years whilst getting official news isn't normal GW operation for us nor GW.
Sure we get a few things - eg Necromunda has abunch of specialist models in rulebooks nad such that aren't yet released as models - we are used to that "unknown" stuff side of things; but a known release years in the making is new. So the news does feel odd.
I don't think its as well managed as the Sisters of Battle rework which also had a long lead in.
I was hoping and expecting them to go Kislev and Cathay much earlier as they had gone to the trouble of creating an 8th ed Cathay army book for Total War and its something none of us older gamers had.
Cathay and the Tomb Kings (well Nehekhara specfically Lahmia) have trading history so maybe they can work them in that way
Mr_Rose wrote: Never been a superfan of the enormously thick banner style. Like seriously that’s five inches of felt or quilted linen or something. Dude doesn’t need armour; he can just hide behind the flag. Which probably weighs more than him, now I think about it.
I dunno if that even the intention. Forgeworld has a habit of making cloaks and tabbards super thick
It would be really.... ironic? incredible? I don't know what the word is... if the renders and resulting minis they previewed were leftovers from before they cut WHFB and replaced it with AoS. Just half-finished sculpts sitting in a folder somewhere for the past 10 years that they trotted out as something to show and then finished up as a low budget release. Would explain why the scaling is off/they've reverted back to old school heroic scaling even whileall their other mini ranges are nu-scale.
chaos0xomega wrote: It would be really.... ironic? incredible? I don't know what the word is... if the renders and resulting minis they previewed were leftovers from before they cut WHFB and replaced it with AoS. Just half-finished sculpts sitting in a folder somewhere for the past 10 years that they trotted out as something to show and then finished up as a low budget release. Would explain why the scaling is off/they've reverted back to old school heroic scaling even whileall their other mini ranges are nu-scale.
Considering how many designs Spartan Games came up with that never saw the light of day and they were the work of one to a handful of designers - I'm pretty sure GW has box after box of hard-drives and papers of concept art that never sees the light of day. I'm very sure many of the bits of material could well have been from before Old World was destroyed. They had 30+years working in that setting as a big firm that keeps a lot of material in-house. They will have had masses to draw from.
What is likely is some got reworked - eg take how GW does mounts today compared to back 10 or 20 years ago. The same concept art might have been reworked to have a smaller mount in the old say; but today they can do a bigger mount. So there might well be ideas that started for one style and have been evolved for another.
I wouldn't consider that low-investment; just the result of a big mature firm with a lot of assets.
As for the SoB release being better, it had multiple advantages
1) It was just an army update. Big but its within the scope of what GW has done many times before. The outstanding part was that SoB had gone for so long without an update, but otherwise it was pretty much a normal thing for GW doubled up to cover the whole army.
2) It didn't have a pandemic and artificial market boost and global shipping issues and a war. All those things have likely taken their toll on Old World's development in various ways. It might well be that GW was going to resculpt everything and then a few things change and suddenly they will resculpt half of it and keep the more modern designs. etc...
3) GW isn't yet in the home-run to marketing it for release and its clear that there's various things messing up their release windows anyway. So it could well be that the spotty marketing we are getting is because we've had a new edition; hicckups in their warehouse system; delays on the Epic relaunch etc.... All things that might well have pushed a release take outside of elements internal to that project in itself.
chaos0xomega wrote: It would be really.... ironic? incredible? I don't know what the word is... if the renders and resulting minis they previewed were leftovers from before they cut WHFB and replaced it with AoS. Just half-finished sculpts sitting in a folder somewhere for the past 10 years that they trotted out as something to show and then finished up as a low budget release. Would explain why the scaling is off/they've reverted back to old school heroic scaling even whileall their other mini ranges are nu-scale.
as far as I recall the last rumours from Hastings for 9th Edition (before he rage quit because of AoS which he knew nothing about), he claimed to have seen new Bretonnian models ready for release
might as well just be those he have seen and perfectly fits on the minimum work we have seen by now GW put into it
as there is no good reason why Bretonnia is there when the hole story arc that was presented is without them
There was a rumor about, that some of those new Resin Breton Miniatures had to been designed for a 10th Edition Bretonia Armybook which never happened. DId someone heared more?
RazorEdge wrote: There was a rumor about, that some of those new Resin Breton Miniatures had to been designed for a 10th Edition Bretonia Armybook which never happened. DId someone heared more?
If I recall there was plastic 10 men vampire kit aswell, along with a Questing knight on foot clampack aswell. Can anyone confirm this aswell.
Geifer wrote: Hmm, it just occurred to me that with the model reveals so heavily slanted towards Bretonnia, the whole thing feels more like they're showing off a new army book instead of an entire game. Of course the army got neglected before GW exploded the setting and they deserve every new model they get. It does feel kind of weird, though, and maybe another candidate for the long list of issues with GW's marketing campaign for The Old World.
I agree and I say this as someone who loves Bretonnia and collects them as a main army.
It is really weird to lean so hard into them for the reboot. I absolutely love Bretonnia, but unless the new edition changes a lot, Bretonnia is not a flexable army. To grow new players and retain current ones GW should be leaning into High Elves, Empire, and Greenskins - armies that were always popular and can be played in several different ways.
but the only one next to Khemri that did made it to AoS, so whatever ever happens to TOW, GW can always port them over to AoS without replacing something there
something that hardly works with Empires, Elves or Dwarfs
chaos0xomega wrote: It would be really.... ironic? incredible? I don't know what the word is... if the renders and resulting minis they previewed were leftovers from before they cut WHFB and replaced it with AoS. Just half-finished sculpts sitting in a folder somewhere for the past 10 years that they trotted out as something to show and then finished up as a low budget release. Would explain why the scaling is off/they've reverted back to old school heroic scaling even whileall their other mini ranges are nu-scale.
I don't see the scale thing as indicative of much. When part of the point of this is to bring back some of those beloved miniatures in a way where they aren't just temporary leftovers like they are in AoS, having them all in the same scale seems best.
Geifer wrote: Hmm, it just occurred to me that with the model reveals so heavily slanted towards Bretonnia, the whole thing feels more like they're showing off a new army book instead of an entire game. Of course the army got neglected before GW exploded the setting and they deserve every new model they get. It does feel kind of weird, though, and maybe another candidate for the long list of issues with GW's marketing campaign for The Old World.
I agree and I say this as someone who loves Bretonnia and collects them as a main army.
It is really weird to lean so hard into them for the reboot. I absolutely love Bretonnia, but unless the new edition changes a lot, Bretonnia is not a flexable army. To grow new players and retain current ones GW should be leaning into High Elves, Empire, and Greenskins - armies that were always popular and can be played in several different ways.
How is it so weird? It's one of the two armies that didn't really make any sort of transition to AoS directly, fully unique to the WHFB setting. Emphasizing those two makes sense as it shows what the game has going for it.
Mr Morden wrote: Its also likely the most generic army and hardest to copyright so very un-GW
Not how copyright works. Bretonnia is no more or less copyrightable than any of their other stuff.
Mentlegen324 wrote: How is it so weird? It's one of the two armies that didn't really make any sort of transition to AoS directly, fully unique to the WHFB setting. Emphasizing those two makes sense as it shows what the game has going for it.
It is a bit unexpected that the re-boot is headlined by two armies that was concidered among the lesser played and collected. Not saying it's a terrible opening for the new game but most of us was probably expecting Empire, Orcs & Goblins, Skaven or High Elves before Tomb Kings and Bretonnia.
Hoping the reveals this weekend will give us better idea of the plans for the release!
Mentlegen324 wrote: How is it so weird? It's one of the two armies that didn't really make any sort of transition to AoS directly, fully unique to the WHFB setting. Emphasizing those two makes sense as it shows what the game has going for it.
It is a bit unexpected that the re-boot is headlined by two armies that was concidered among the lesser played and collected. Not saying it's a terrible opening for the new game but most of us was probably expecting Empire, Orcs & Goblins, Skaven or High Elves before Tomb Kings and Bretonnia.
Hoping the reveals this weekend will give us better idea of the plans for the release!
It's catering to a group of players who were left abandoned by AoS, Empire, Orcs, Skaven etc all had their armies or significant portions of their armies retained for Sigmar, people who were interested in those can still have them in AoS. That's not quite the case for Bretonnia and Tomb Kings where their whole range was dropped.
It's appealing to the nostalgia for those armies and showing a return to WHFB more so than if they had gone for Empire models instead or whatever, because you can just go and buy many of the models for those already.
Which is great for nostalgia or for people like me that were collecting Bretonnia dead or not.
Its not a great strategy if you want a sustained playerbase when a large chunk of the people who buy into the game drop off because they don't like the army they have.
Bretonnia and Tomb Kings are not one size fits all armies Even before Bretonnia got left behind there is a reason it was one of GW's smallest faction bases.
This is like if 40k died for a couple of decades and upon its return they only talked about Squats and Dark Eldar and never mentioned Space Marines.
Grail Seeker wrote: Which is great for nostalgia or for people like me that were collecting Bretonnia dead or not.
Its not a great strategy if you want a sustained playerbase when a large chunk of the people who buy into the game drop off because they don't like the army they have.
Bretonnia and Tomb Kings are not one size fits all armies Even before Bretonnia got left behind there is a reason it was one of GW's smallest faction bases.
This is like if 40k died for a couple of decades and upon its return they only talked about Squats and Dark Eldar and never mentioned Space Marines.
No, it isn't like that. Bretonnia and Tomb Kings are the ones that are being shown off and focused on because they currently have nothing. They didn't get transferred over to AoS, they just got abandoned entirely. The Empire, Elves etc models are already available for the most part, and they are just going to be ported back over to this. That's not the case with something like Bretonnia where they need a bit more attention because they don't have anything available at all.
Basically going "Bretonnia is back, remember them? You've not seen them in 8 years because they were entirely gone, but now they're back!" compared to "Look, it's the classic Empire minis that have mostly been available in AoS for the past 8 years again! So Exciting!".
I understand that there will be empire models available for purchase at launch. But there is also no logical reason why they couldn't have done an empire versus greenskin starter box - complete with a few new heroes to generate hype but also produced Bretonnia and tomb king models like they are doing with the others, no? The choice wasn't starter box or nothing.
All I am saying is its a wierd way to start the game, and might not have been the most successful strategy.
"Hey guys we are relaunching all Warhammer Fantasy centered on the Age of the Three Emperors!
Enjoy this starter box with two factions that has nothing to do with that. One of which isn't even on the same landmass of the setting we want to create!"
Grail Seeker wrote: I understand that there will be empire models available for purchase at launch. But there is also no logical reason why they couldn't have done an empire versus greenskin starter box - complete with a few new heroes to generate hype but also produced Bretonnia and tomb king models like they are doing with the others, no? The choice wasn't starter box or nothing.
All I am saying is its a wierd way to start the game, and might not have been the most successful strategy.
"Hey guys we are relaunching all Warhammer Fantasy centered on the Age of the Three Emperors!
Enjoy this starter box with two factions that has nothing to do with that. One of which isn't even on the same landmass of the setting we want to create!"
Where has it been confirmed that this is how they're "starting" the game? Showing this Bretonnia stuff doesn't necessarily mean that's what there's going to be. We might well get a start box with some stuff like you're suggesting, nothing's been actually announced yet.
Where has it been confirmed that this is how they're "starting" the game? Showing this Bretonnia stuff doesn't necessarily mean that's what there's going to be. We might well get a start box with some stuff like you're suggesting, nothing's been actually announced yet.
this was confirmed on the last "big" announcement stream, changing that from the half a year ago or the people taking there having no clue what really is going on would just make it worse
In my book there are two reasons for picking two of the least popular factions for the release of TOW:
1)
Whoever is in charge wants TOW to fail, so they can say: „We tried, but there is simply not enough demand for a classic rank and file game set in the Old World!“.
2)
They picked Brets and Kings for the initial releases because these miniature ranges will get less support/ fewer updates than the more popular armies released later on.
Basically, release the armies with limited support first so that the support for later armies constitutes a step up and not a step down if the schedule was the other way around.
Also, if they want to launch TOW with more than Brets and Kings, they can bring back more kits for the other armies at launch in this way, since the pipeline to produce and distribute products is limited.
I'd imagine they picked on the 2 factions that at the end of old world needed the most love subjectively. I'd wager initially they wanted a full army reboot but don't have capacity for it.
Grail Seeker wrote: I understand that there will be empire models available for purchase at launch. But there is also no logical reason why they couldn't have done an empire versus greenskin starter box - complete with a few new heroes to generate hype but also produced Bretonnia and tomb king models like they are doing with the others, no? The choice wasn't starter box or nothing.
All I am saying is its a wierd way to start the game, and might not have been the most successful strategy.
"Hey guys we are relaunching all Warhammer Fantasy centered on the Age of the Three Emperors!
Enjoy this starter box with two factions that has nothing to do with that. One of which isn't even on the same landmass of the setting we want to create!"
I forgot the part in the lore where Bretonnia and Khemri simply didn't exist until AFTER the Age of the Three Emperors. Man, am I behind on my lore reading...
Grail Seeker wrote: I understand that there will be empire models available for purchase at launch. But there is also no logical reason why they couldn't have done an empire versus greenskin starter box - complete with a few new heroes to generate hype but also produced Bretonnia and tomb king models like they are doing with the others, no? The choice wasn't starter box or nothing.
All I am saying is its a wierd way to start the game, and might not have been the most successful strategy.
"Hey guys we are relaunching all Warhammer Fantasy centered on the Age of the Three Emperors!
Enjoy this starter box with two factions that has nothing to do with that. One of which isn't even on the same landmass of the setting we want to create!"
I forgot the part in the lore where Bretonnia and Khemri simply didn't exist until AFTER the Age of the Three Emperors. Man, am I behind on my lore reading...
I dont think the issue is with players have access to these as forces at the start. or even a lore reason. I think the strangeness of it all comes from GW having said before one of the downsides of WFB (And thus why they went the route they did with AoS) was that they had issue with why certain factions would be fighting or even anywhere close to be near enough to get into a fight at all. Then they choice the two most opposite armies available to pick from!
I always thought it was a load of baloney, as players never seem to run out of ideas of why there would a be a lore reason for armies to fight.
Now GW bring back WFB with the two armies that have nothing to do at all with the 'new' narrative they have been spinning for this new edition. There is no (logical) reason they couldn't go with TK & Brets, its just an odd choice that goes against what they have been talking about in the few previews we have gotten so far.
Personally, I have no problem with the choice. But its still a very strange way to usher in an era of 'Empire vs Empire Vs Empire Vs Chaos', other than going for the most obvious nostalgia sales for the two factions removed from AoS completely.
My original comment was prompted by the realization that 80% of the previewed models are Bretonnian, revealed in an uncharacteristic order. GW revealed a knight and a liche priest during Warhammer Fest. Then over the next five months they added a mounted banner bearer, sorceress and banner bearer on foot for Bretonnia. For a company with a decades long tradition of two player starter sets* for anything and everything**, revealing two factions at their main event and then following up with further models for only a single army feels completely backwards. It doesn't feel like they're actually showing off Bretonnia and Tomb Kings to cater to the two factions that got murdered half a year into AoS. Even allowing for the snail's pace that characterizes Old World updates and going so long exclusively with Bretonnian models, sticking with just one faction instead of alternating between the two feels like they're not showing off both starter factions. Just one. Hence my comment that it feels more like an army book reveal than a game/edition reveal.
* I know GW's communication during Warhammer Fest was that there won't be a starter set as per whatever weird definition GW uses. We don't really know what they're planning, other than I believe in the following Q&A they said there would be starter products of some description.
** Even potential mono-faction starter sets like Gorkamorka and Horus Heresy that share the same models for different factions are presented as two sides on the box and in promo material.
Are we really discounting the possibility, that GW just has some monkeys flinging darts at a wall with random ideas and whatever gets hit, gets released?
For such a huge company, they had some baffling approaches to business and releases so far, so I'd wager anything is on the table.
My suspicion still is this will be a limited release with limited support like with the 40k Armageddon ruleset. If it generates some nostalgia bucks, good. If it runs for 2-3 years, good. If it surpasses AOS and becomes the new staple again, also good. I think GW has low expectations, everything with a net win is OK.
Grail Seeker wrote: I understand that there will be empire models available for purchase at launch. But there is also no logical reason why they couldn't have done an empire versus greenskin starter box - complete with a few new heroes to generate hype but also produced Bretonnia and tomb king models like they are doing with the others, no? The choice wasn't starter box or nothing.
All I am saying is its a wierd way to start the game, and might not have been the most successful strategy.
"Hey guys we are relaunching all Warhammer Fantasy centered on the Age of the Three Emperors!
Enjoy this starter box with two factions that has nothing to do with that. One of which isn't even on the same landmass of the setting we want to create!"
I forgot the part in the lore where Bretonnia and Khemri simply didn't exist until AFTER the Age of the Three Emperors. Man, am I behind on my lore reading...
I dont think the issue is with players have access to these as forces at the start. or even a lore reason. I think the strangeness of it all comes from GW having said before one of the downsides of WFB (And thus why they went the route they did with AoS) was that they had issue with why certain factions would be fighting or even anywhere close to be near enough to get into a fight at all. Then they choice the two most opposite armies available to pick from!
I always thought it was a load of baloney, as players never seem to run out of ideas of why there would a be a lore reason for armies to fight.
Now GW bring back WFB with the two armies that have nothing to do at all with the 'new' narrative they have been spinning for this new edition. There is no (logical) reason they couldn't go with TK & Brets, its just an odd choice that goes against what they have been talking about in the few previews we have gotten so far.
Personally, I have no problem with the choice. But its still a very strange way to usher in an era of 'Empire vs Empire Vs Empire Vs Chaos', other than going for the most obvious nostalgia sales for the two factions removed from AoS completely.
Boats.
I'm not sure everyone will catch that, so I'll say it again...
BOATS.
I get how players may miss this little fact but it's disheartening that GW can't put that together despite having at least TWO MARITIME GAMES SET IN THE OLD WORLD.
Grail Seeker wrote: I understand that there will be empire models available for purchase at launch. But there is also no logical reason why they couldn't have done an empire versus greenskin starter box - complete with a few new heroes to generate hype but also produced Bretonnia and tomb king models like they are doing with the others, no? The choice wasn't starter box or nothing.
All I am saying is its a wierd way to start the game, and might not have been the most successful strategy.
"Hey guys we are relaunching all Warhammer Fantasy centered on the Age of the Three Emperors!
Enjoy this starter box with two factions that has nothing to do with that. One of which isn't even on the same landmass of the setting we want to create!"
I forgot the part in the lore where Bretonnia and Khemri simply didn't exist until AFTER the Age of the Three Emperors. Man, am I behind on my lore reading...
I dont think the issue is with players have access to these as forces at the start. or even a lore reason. I think the strangeness of it all comes from GW having said before one of the downsides of WFB (And thus why they went the route they did with AoS) was that they had issue with why certain factions would be fighting or even anywhere close to be near enough to get into a fight at all. Then they choice the two most opposite armies available to pick from!
I always thought it was a load of baloney, as players never seem to run out of ideas of why there would a be a lore reason for armies to fight.
Now GW bring back WFB with the two armies that have nothing to do at all with the 'new' narrative they have been spinning for this new edition. There is no (logical) reason they couldn't go with TK & Brets, its just an odd choice that goes against what they have been talking about in the few previews we have gotten so far.
Personally, I have no problem with the choice. But its still a very strange way to usher in an era of 'Empire vs Empire Vs Empire Vs Chaos', other than going for the most obvious nostalgia sales for the two factions removed from AoS completely.
Boats.
I'm not sure everyone will catch that, so I'll say it again...
BOATS.
I get how players may miss this little fact but it's disheartening that GW can't put that together despite having at least TWO MARITIME GAMES SET IN THE OLD WORLD.
If only WFB had been invented in a country that once ruled most of the world by having an incredibly powerful navy, then they might have realised this themselves!
I'm with you on this, I think the mental gymnastics GW had to go through to have that as the excuse not be able to put together a simple reason for forces to meet in battle is mind boggling.
"We made AoS because our team forgot boats were a thing".
Though this might explain the reason for the concept of the Idoneth Deepkin
Where has it been confirmed that this is how they're "starting" the game? Showing this Bretonnia stuff doesn't necessarily mean that's what there's going to be. We might well get a start box with some stuff like you're suggesting, nothing's been actually announced yet.
this was confirmed on the last "big" announcement stream, changing that from the half a year ago or the people taking there having no clue what really is going on would just make it worse
Do you mean the Q&A thing from back in April? Maybe I just missed something because it's hard to find the info from it, but I don't remember seeing anything saying it's Bretonnia and Tomb Kings as the initial/starter focus.
The comments about them having trouble justifying all the factions fighting over stuff had nothing at all to do with AoS. That statement was made with regards to global campaigns and major narrative events and how they had difficulty creating compelling WHFB narrative that engaged the entire community without turning those narratives into World War Fantasy with wide-spanning consequences (ala Storm of Chaos and The End Times) because they couldn't narratively justify having all these factions turn up to fight over a relatively small area. For this reason they trimmed a number of popular factions off for TOW so that they could remain more narratively focused with the setting and storytelling. The presence of boats doesn't change that, you still have the same fundamental problem that its oddly and awfully convenient that a dozen or so different factions that are generally scattered and isolated with very different agendas all happen to show up in the same 100 square mile backwater to partake in a limited narrative conflict that isn't that important to the broader setting. The alternative is an event that sees widespread battles across the whole setting (yes, using boats) in a manner that engages everyone into he narrative, but usually requires the narrative stakes to be high for everyone in order to justifiably make sense.
40k does not have that problem, because most of the factions are relatively fluid and mobile and not confined to any one area or region of the setting (excepting Tau, which GW more recently managed to fix with the 5th sphere expansion scattering them across a wider area). You can create necessarily high stakes and have the 20 or so different factions duking it out in a sufficiently sized theater of conflict and have it make all the sense in the world, you can even destroy entire planets/sectors, and it doesn't really impact the wider setting at all because the scale of the setting is much grander. AoS is similar to some extent in that regards, but because of the disjointed and somewhat nebulous/ambiguous nature of the setting has a hard time connecting with the audience in a meaningful way.
Anyway.
As for the Bretonnia/Tomb Kings thing, I think its been speculated pretty heavily that whatever GWs original plans were for TOW have been de-railed, or they never really had a solid vision/plan to begin with and were making it up as they went. The initial teases and hints about the setting revolved heavily around the idea of the Age of Three Emperors - that Empire Civil War would have obviously and easily allowed for a 2-player mono-faction empire themed launch box ala the Age of Darkness Box for Horus Heresy, etc. Then they seemed to veer into Kislev and Cathay being involved, which never made much sense to me but some I think assumed that we would possibly be seeing them as part of a 2-player 2-faction launch box ala 40k/AoS. The Bretonnian and Tomb King angle has come about more recently, and the rumor is not that they will be in a 2-player set, but rather they will be available as part of separate stand-alone sets. We have also more recently learned that the narrative of the initial wave of releases will be focused on the Border Princes, rather than the more obvious place to start in the Empire with the Age of Three Emperors. I would guess that development on the Empire stuff (which presumably would feature all new sculpts with some aesthetic difference from what we may be used to given that this is a few hundred years prior to the setting of previous editions of the game) was probably slowed by the pandemic as well as the production bottleneck issues that GW has been experiencing for the last 3-4 years, and likewise the same with Kislev/Cathay. Likewise, the community has not been shy in making its demands clear and sharing expectations (to the extent that most TOW related social media channels and forum threads can get pretty acrimonious and toxic very fast).
I think they developed or reworked whatever plans they may have originally had to focus on the Border Princes as a means to launch the game with legacy minis for a number of the legacy factions, as they had the tooling for those models available and ready to go and they required significantly less development than the creation of new armies and miniatures from whole cloth. They picked Bretonnia and Tomb Kings as the main focus for the first wave because they were the only two factions that did not have even a portion of their range available for sale, so that they could throw a bone to players of those factions and spiff them up a bit so they don't feel quite as bad about having some of the oldest models in the range, etc. as well as in acknowledgement of the fact that those two factions have surged in popularity as a result of their unavailability and the nostalgia surrounding them. Frankly, I do not think that they had originally intended to include Tomb Kings at all, and only planned to include Bretonnia in a later stage of development, but I'm sure some middle manager at the firm saw how much Bret/Tomb King kits are going for on eBay and decided they should cash in on it and forced a rework of the plans/their inclusion.
My guess (and based on some of the more big picture rumors we have heard) we will possibly see a proper 2-player starter/launch set released at some point next year containing all new minis and focused on promoting the actual narrative direction of the game rather than pushing nostalgia.
Grail Seeker wrote: I understand that there will be empire models available for purchase at launch. But there is also no logical reason why they couldn't have done an empire versus greenskin starter box - complete with a few new heroes to generate hype but also produced Bretonnia and tomb king models like they are doing with the others, no? The choice wasn't starter box or nothing.
All I am saying is its a wierd way to start the game, and might not have been the most successful strategy.
"Hey guys we are relaunching all Warhammer Fantasy centered on the Age of the Three Emperors!
Enjoy this starter box with two factions that has nothing to do with that. One of which isn't even on the same landmass of the setting we want to create!"
I forgot the part in the lore where Bretonnia and Khemri simply didn't exist until AFTER the Age of the Three Emperors. Man, am I behind on my lore reading...
Is there a point to being this willfully ignorant?
Bretonnia during this time is neck deeps in Greekskins incursions and, as least before retcons, aren't a big player involved in the Age of three Emperors. As for Khemri, well look at the map and decide for yourself how big of a role they play. No lore reading required!
Grail Seeker wrote: I understand that there will be empire models available for purchase at launch. But there is also no logical reason why they couldn't have done an empire versus greenskin starter box - complete with a few new heroes to generate hype but also produced Bretonnia and tomb king models like they are doing with the others, no? The choice wasn't starter box or nothing.
All I am saying is its a wierd way to start the game, and might not have been the most successful strategy.
"Hey guys we are relaunching all Warhammer Fantasy centered on the Age of the Three Emperors!
Enjoy this starter box with two factions that has nothing to do with that. One of which isn't even on the same landmass of the setting we want to create!"
I forgot the part in the lore where Bretonnia and Khemri simply didn't exist until AFTER the Age of the Three Emperors. Man, am I behind on my lore reading...
Is there a point to being this willfully ignorant?
Bretonnia during this time is neck deeps in Greekskins incursions and, as least before retcons, aren't a big player involved in the Age of three Emperors. As for Khemri, well look at the map and decide for yourself how big of a role they play. No lore reading required!
Is there a point to being this willfully ignorant?
Being around during the time is NOT the same as being at the event. NOR was it expressly stated that this game revoled AROUND this event.
While we're at it with the "look at the map" crack: Where is England compared to the Middle East? Do you remember anything about The Crusades?
The game will be set firmly within the Old World itself – the lands between the coast of Bretonnia to the west and the Worlds Edge Mountains to the east – during the decades immediately before the Great War Against Chaos and the Siege of Praag. Much of the action in the first wave of books and supplements takes place in and around the Border Princes – the barrier lands between the Empire and Orc territory.
I still think its odd that the two factions that are not at all mentioned as playable as either core or with basic rules are
Well, Cathay was hinted at in one of the articles or interviews (might have been a TWW3 related interview rather than a TOW related one, but the statement stuck out to me) on the basis that they sent large trading caravans escorted by thousands of soldiers to the Old World.
Kislev fits solidly between the borders defined in your quote, and if you look carefully at one of the maps that they shared on WarCom, Kislev also has a presence in the Border Princes: https://images.app.goo.gl/N8znn8o5ayQPZxKKA
Note - Uvetovsk on the right.
My understanding is that the "core" factions (Empire, Bretonnians, etc.) will be continuously updated and regularly supported, etc. and that a number of other factions will basically be "one and done" - i.e. "season 3" might be narratively about kislev vs cathay - the core factions will get some updates, kislev and cathay will get small flavorful army lists, but then season 4 comes along and is about Tilea invading Bretonnia, so Tilea gets an army list, and the core factions get some more updates, and Kislev and Cathay don't get touched again, etc.
The game will be set firmly within the Old World itself – the lands between the coast of Bretonnia to the west and the Worlds Edge Mountains to the east – during the decades immediately before the Great War Against Chaos and the Siege of Praag. Much of the action in the first wave of books and supplements takes place in and around the Border Princes – the barrier lands between the Empire and Orc territory.
I still think its odd that the two factions that are not at all mentioned as playable as either core or with basic rules are
Kislev and Cathay
It's very odd that one of the first proper things they showed for the whole project was multiple pieces of concept art and articles over several weeks showing us Kislev, only to have that not be directly relevant to the actual game, won't be for several years at best and might not happen.
The game will be set firmly within the Old World itself – the lands between the coast of Bretonnia to the west and the Worlds Edge Mountains to the east – during the decades immediately before the Great War Against Chaos and the Siege of Praag. Much of the action in the first wave of books and supplements takes place in and around the Border Princes – the barrier lands between the Empire and Orc territory.
I still think its odd that the two factions that are not at all mentioned as playable as either core or with basic rules are
Kislev and Cathay
It's very odd that one of the first proper things they showed for the whole project was multiple pieces of concept art and articles over several weeks showing us Kislev, only to have that not be directly relevant to the actual game, won't be for several years at best and might not happen.
I think that it might be that, because Kislev isn't considered a main faction in old Warhammer, they want to wait on revealing a completely new faction until after the Old World releases.
Speculation and perhaps a little bit of fools' hope, but also a definite possibility.
It is my understanding that GW was just bull gakking with Kislev and Cathay concept art they did for a video game because they had done zero work for TOW at the time but had to post something so that people wouldn't talk about Kings of War instead
lord_blackfang wrote: It is my understanding that GW was just bull gakking with Kislev and Cathay concept art they did for a video game because they had done zero work for TOW at the time but had to post something so that people wouldn't talk about Kings of War instead
Negative. They were showcasing the concept art to give an idea as to how the design process was working.
I find the... lack of imagination, literal overinterpretation of events, I don't know what you want to to call it... in those responses kinda frightening.
Kislev is coming, they said explicitly it would. The fact that it's not a core faction and not the present focus does not mean it's not.
Kislev is coming, at the end of the story arc when they reached Praag
if this will ever happen is something different, as first they need to start said story arc, which is not even clear that they would do it
for now we having nothing except that Bretonnia get new resin models
might just well be a anniversary release without rules at all
and yes, teasing Kislev and Cathay was simply just to show something to go along with TWW and they had nothing else to show.
if Total War would have started with Chaos Dwarfs instead of Kislev we would have seen those instead
and if TWW 3 would not have been released that time we would have seen nothing
chaos0xomega wrote: I find the... lack of imagination, literal overinterpretation of events, I don't know what you want to to call it... in those responses kinda frightening.
Kislev is coming, they said explicitly it would. The fact that it's not a core faction and not the present focus does not mean it's not.
I don't think it's that hard to understand why people wouldn't be happy for them to hype up this project by showing off something that the have no plans to include as part of the game for several years after launch, at best.
chaos0xomega wrote: I find the... lack of imagination, literal overinterpretation of events, I don't know what you want to to call it... in those responses kinda frightening.
Kislev is coming, they said explicitly it would. The fact that it's not a core faction and not the present focus does not mean it's not.
I don't think it's that hard to understand why people wouldn't be happy for them to hype up this project by showing off something that the have no plans to include as part of the game for several years after launch, at best.
Based on what, exactly? They said the first wave of the game will be focused on the Border Princes region, which includes a Kislev presence. I don't know how long the first wave is going to last, but I would be surprised if it lasts "years". It seems pretty likely Kiselv will see inclusion pretty early on.
Why does the Border Princess includes Kislev and where does they say that it is now added at the beginning an not the end of the story arc when reaching Praag?
and given how long HH needs to reach Terra, why do you think they will reach Praag within months and not years?
chaos0xomega wrote: I find the... lack of imagination, literal overinterpretation of events, I don't know what you want to to call it... in those responses kinda frightening.
Kislev is coming, they said explicitly it would. The fact that it's not a core faction and not the present focus does not mean it's not.
I don't think it's that hard to understand why people wouldn't be happy for them to hype up this project by showing off something that the have no plans to include as part of the game for several years after launch, at best.
Based on what, exactly? They said the first wave of the game will be focused on the Border Princes region, which includes a Kislev presence. I don't know how long the first wave is going to last, but I would be surprised if it lasts "years". It seems pretty likely Kiselv will see inclusion pretty early on.
Do you honestly think based on what they've shown and said that within the first 1-2 years of the games release, we'll be getting what's effectively an entire new army of Kislev? Especially when they've ruled out 7 existing WHFB armies as being part of this in a capacity beyond lip service so "you can bring them to battle for old times sake"?
Uvetovsk = Kislev (if nothing else, a Kislev themed border prince that would most likely utilize a Kislev army list).
The story is never reaching Praag. They were very explicit in stating that the narrative of the game (i.e. its future development for the next 10-20+ years at least) was set in the decades *before* the Siege of Praag. "before" is an exclusionary term, ie its usage indicates that the Siege of Praag is not included within the proscribed timeframe of the setting, in the same way that saying something is set "before World War 2" means that the events of world war 2 are not included in its story.
The first wave of the narrative (which probably means the next year or two, based on how development waves for Necromunda, Kill Team, and AoS have gone) is set in the Border Princes. As the Border Princes maps for the Old World include a Kislevite faction (which as far as I have been able to ascertain has never existed in the lore previously), it is reasonable to assume that Kislev will be included at some point within the next 1-2 years while the focus is still on the Border Princes.
chaos0xomega wrote: I find the... lack of imagination, literal overinterpretation of events, I don't know what you want to to call it... in those responses kinda frightening.
Kislev is coming, they said explicitly it would. The fact that it's not a core faction and not the present focus does not mean it's not.
I don't think it's that hard to understand why people wouldn't be happy for them to hype up this project by showing off something that the have no plans to include as part of the game for several years after launch, at best.
Based on what, exactly? They said the first wave of the game will be focused on the Border Princes region, which includes a Kislev presence. I don't know how long the first wave is going to last, but I would be surprised if it lasts "years". It seems pretty likely Kiselv will see inclusion pretty early on.
Do you honestly think based on what they've shown and said that within the first 1-2 years of the games release, we'll be getting what's effectively an entire new army of Kislev? Especially when they've ruled out 7 existing WHFB armies as being part of this in a capacity beyond lip service so "you can bring them to battle for old times sake"?
100%.
This is weird, because usually you're the optimist and im the pessimist as far as TOW discussions go, but yes.
GW isn't bothering to resuscitate a dead game to just reissue old minis. Those old minis will sell well to the newbies coming in via TWW, but as is already well known from GWs financial reports and insider knowledge, the main money-maker for the company is new releases rather than the back catalogue. Once the community has had their fill of the old minis they will be moving on to new sculpts and new content. That is, after all, how they make their money. The cut factions all more or less live on in AoS anyway, so its not like they've fully abandoned them (and the presence of a Harkon banner on the Border Princes map implies that even though "Vampire Counts" won't be present, theres still the possibility of a necromantic wet-undead faction headed off by a secret vampire - I would assume theres a possibility we will see similar "not-Faction" armies come about, for example we might not get "Dark Elves" but we may get "Fellhearts Coastal Raiders" or "Mengil Manhides Manflayers" or whatever which bend the rules of the traditional take on these factions, etc.), they're still making money on that IP, just in a different context. In fact, cutting those 7 factions basically opens the door for them to add in new factions like Kislev - think about that as 7 extra mouths that don't need to get fed. Instead of needing to listen to Dark Elf and Lizardmen players bitch about how they aren't getting any support, GW can focus on providing support for a much smaller pool of legacy factions, which frees up the resources to add other factions.
I don't think Kislev will be a full army comparable to the core factions though. I'm expecting it to be a much more limited list (at least at first) - basically a couple heroes, winged lancers and a couple infantry choices, bears, and a cannon or something. What I expect is that the core factions will be launched in a single book with a very complete set of army lists included, and will see small updates and add-ons via supplements ala HH. The non-core factions (like Kislev) will see a more gradual and long term evolution over many more supplements rather than getting comprehensive detailed lists out of the gate.
My guess is they make a pretty basic game to start with. Classic models with the occasional new additions, index styled army rules, and a more or less balanced game because there is not much that stands out and generic magic.
And after a year or so, they release brand new army Kislev as the start of overpowered armybooks with crazy special rules and uniqe magics. Needless to say, Kislev sell really well.
Fayric wrote: My guess is they make a pretty basic game to start with. Classic models with the occasional new additions, index styled army rules, and a more or less balanced game because there is not much that stands out and generic magic.
And after a year or so, they release brand new army Kislev as the start of overpowered armybooks with crazy special rules and uniqe magics. Needless to say, Kislev sell really well.
They have sixteen articles in the category but are missing the last three Bretonnian miniature reveals. That's shoddy. I wonder if anything else is missing. Probably not. Sounds about right for four years of previews (or lack thereof).
Geifer wrote: They have sixteen articles in the category but are missing the last three Bretonnian miniature reveals. That's shoddy. I wonder if anything else is missing. Probably not. Sounds about right for four years of previews (or lack thereof).
I am surprised it is that much. Looking forward tl seeing a few more models tomorrow and maybe a game mid 2025 sometimes?
It being listed on the same level as The Horus Heresy suggests it will be getting more attention than Necromunda does, which is nice if that's the case as that gets a decent amount of stuff.
It being listed on the same level as The Horus Heresy suggests it will be getting more attention than Necromunda does, which is nice if that's the case as that gets a decent amount of stuff.
Yeah Necroumunda has some lovely new art, lore and models - so fine with that
Geifer wrote: They have sixteen articles in the category but are missing the last three Bretonnian miniature reveals. That's shoddy. I wonder if anything else is missing. Probably not. Sounds about right for four years of previews (or lack thereof).
I am surprised it is that much. Looking forward tl seeing a few more models tomorrow and maybe a game mid 2025 sometimes?
Its doubtful something they aren't planning to release for 2 years would get its own section on the website.
kodos wrote: and given how long HH needs to reach Terra
"Modern" HH is at the Siege of Terra. The Siege of Cthonia Campaign Book runs concurrent with the Siege of Terra. We just don't have that campaign as a book yet, but we're at the time period(and technically after).
Im not convinced they will be doing the Siege of Terra campaign directly, at least not for a while yet. Theres technically still a few rumored black books that never got released that they would presumably want to revisit, and I think technically speaking even the black books weren't set in a chronological order.
McDougall Designs wrote: I'm looking forward to any tomb kings reveals. They've done multiple brets but not much of my crispy undead friends.
I suspect that the Bretonnian reveals are largely stuff that had been worked on way back, but never got released since the Brets never got a new army book. Tomb Kings aren't currently suffering from that issue since they had a release during 8th Edition.
Unless they decide it's finally time to release the Hierotitan model, of course. After all, they had rules for it in the 8th Edition army book, so there's a good chance that they had at least some work done on a model for it before End Times shut everything down.
Actually, all the chatter about the possibility of a "zombie dragon with a liche rider" has me in a bit of a paranoid mood lately. I like the Tomb Kings. They're one of the armies that I ran (the other was Druuchii). And an odd thought keeps surfacing that notes that while the Tomb Kings have never had a dragon in Warhammer Fantasy (or even a hint of a Khemrian dragon in the lore), the 5th Edition undead army from back when mummies were still part of the unified "undead" army had one. That same thought also notes the rumors that there will be an army box with a liche... but without a Tomb King. And my mind notes that while such an army would be illegal under both the 6th and 8th Edition Tomb Kings lists, (which require a Tomb King or Tomb Prince alongside the liche priest), such an army would be quite legal for the 5th Edition unified undead.
Yes, I'm probably overthinking things. And we don't know whether the "zombie dragon for Tomb Kings" rumor is accurate (I hope not; dragons quite bluntly have no place in a Khemrian army for thematic reasons). And yet...
Grail Seeker wrote: Eh. The dragon might be more of a construct than a zombie dragon. I suppose we will know for sure soon enough.
Personally, I hope it's not even a construct dragon. The existing constructs, like the Necrosphinx, do the job just fine. And as I said above, dragons don't really fit thematically with the Tomb Kings, imo.
The rate of informative articles picking up this year and now TOW getting its own section shows that there is some meaningful progress and that we are finally close to release. Whatever „close“ means for GW.
As others have noted, a dragon mount was part of the Tomb King range for Warmaster, so would not be completly new.
Also, as the info is just based on a rumor, the model spotted by the source could be something simliar but not quite like a dragon.
The counterpart, in size at least, of the bretonnian pegasus would be the undead Dread Abyssal.
Thus, the rumored undead dragon could look similar to this mount:
https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120207031_DeathLordsMortarchsArkhantheBlack01.jpg Which by the way also is a construct and so would fit the design of the Tomb King army.
kodos wrote: and given how long HH needs to reach Terra
"Modern" HH is at the Siege of Terra. The Siege of Cthonia Campaign Book runs concurrent with the Siege of Terra. We just don't have that campaign as a book yet, but we're at the time period(and technically after).
So you mean we won't see Kislev with this version of TOW but with the 2nd Edition in 10-15 years?
We've had such a good run with not getting any more Tomb King models, why stop now? I predict the big preview will be limited to the squire that polishes the baron's shiny metal butt.
To be fair I can well see that GW originally planned for that. They are saying early 2024 and if you take out the pandemic and a few other messy things then they could quite easily have hit the 40th anniversary with the release
The new Bretonnia stuff looks great, and it's good to have a rough idea of when the release is.
But I still think that was just an odd preview that doesn't tell us that much, even after all this time with it being so close to release. We know what only 1 out of 9 armies planned for this game are getting. We have no idea about the other 7 armies lots at all and if they're even actually getting things at launch, if there's any sort of starter/initial box, if this is just going to be Bretonnia and someone else with us waiting to have other the armies slowly added or if they'll just all be there right away, and they didn't even show any more Tomb Kings.
It feels like they're still not revealing it properly and not committing to it enough.
Overread wrote: To be fair I can well see that GW originally planned for that. They are saying early 2024 and if you take out the pandemic and a few other messy things then they could quite easily have hit the 40th anniversary with the release
More like without whatever screwup triggered the recall of the LI books and the subsequent delay there. I mean people had their prerelease review copies in hand which means that preorders were due a month ago.
kodos wrote: as wrong as the people claiming it must be 2023 and GW will never miss the opportunity to release TOW with 40th anniversary
There is quite a difference between "expecting late 2023, it comes out in early 2024" and "guys, guys, guuyyyysss! 2025 or 2026, for sure!". One was based on reasonable assumptions, the other was delusional trolling.
Overread wrote: To be fair I can well see that GW originally planned for that. They are saying early 2024 and if you take out the pandemic and a few other messy things then they could quite easily have hit the 40th anniversary with the release
More like without whatever screwup triggered the recall of the LI books and the subsequent delay there. I mean people had their prerelease review copies in hand which means that preorders were due a month ago.
given that GW does not even delay the supplement for LI, pushing a bigger release back, meaning all the stuff ready for release sitting in the warehouse costing them money (space is expansive), taking up space that is needed for other future releases, is not really realistic
whatever was the reason for the LI dealy, it did not push TOW back 4+ months
The only old minis in the Bretonnian release I'm ok with picking up are going to be the peasant bowmen and men at arms. I'm sure I will regret it in 5 years when they both get resculpted, but thats future chaos0xomega's problem. The unfortunate reality for me in this moment though is that its looking a lot like I would have to build a Bretonnian army without horses (pegasi not withstanding), as I am absolutely not buying the old mounted knights kit.
Overread wrote: To be fair I can well see that GW originally planned for that. They are saying early 2024 and if you take out the pandemic and a few other messy things then they could quite easily have hit the 40th anniversary with the release
More like without whatever screwup triggered the recall of the LI books and the subsequent delay there. I mean people had their prerelease review copies in hand which means that preorders were due a month ago.
There's a lot of things that clearly have been going on "behind the scenes". Note that the Dawnbringers Book III teaser had "Nova Open" badging for the reveal.
looking at the different pictures to figure out the options of the boxes I think it should be possible to get away with a single box of Foot Knights and 1 Pegapony heroe to build all the classic units and heroes in plastic
like questing Knights go with the 2 handed weapons from the Foot Knights, Grail Knight by taking the new helmets etc.
infinite_array wrote: "With the Peasant Bowmen box, you’ll be able to build a unit of 32 archers, complete with a command group and Defensive Stakes."
Oh, these are going to be BIG boxes. Expensive, but I guess you'll feel better getting at least one unit to a box now?
Going for the Horus Heresy price point by having lots of dudes per box.
not sure if 32 models with a single command for 60€ is something to be excited about
If the the bowmen and infantry kits are returning in 'huge boxes' of 32 models....
But the bowmen are being shown as units of 18 (not counting the stakes), but you get 32 in a box. I suspect this is going to cause a bit of outcry when people realise these new big boxes being advertised as being able to build full units, are likely to have too many or two few to actually play the units as they intend the game to play!
Classic GW!
Thankfully I fully support the use of unit fillers (Including 'blank' bases if needed), so I'll be able to get two units out of each of those sets!
If I was GW, I would be totally fine with throwing out very speculative release dates knowing that a portion of the fanbase will 1) buy it and 2) defend any sort of delay to the death when it happens.
caladancid wrote: If I was GW, I would be totally fine with throwing out very speculative release dates knowing that a portion of the fanbase will 1) buy it and 2) defend any sort of delay to the death when it happens.
I don't think anyone is defending, they are just looking for logical reasons why there's a delay. Ergo understanding why a delay might have or has happened for something.
Understanding can help temper expectations for the future. Eg if you know that product X was delayed because of a general shipping issue then you can expect more delays on other products. But if it was delayed because of a purely internal thing - eg a mixup on some components - then you know it might have a reduced knock on effect on other unrelated products etc....
"The official Warhammer: The Old World website will also be going live on Monday, so keep an eye out there for more information on the lore and landscapes of the Old World as we get closer to release."
caladancid wrote: If I was GW, I would be totally fine with throwing out very speculative release dates knowing that a portion of the fanbase will 1) buy it and 2) defend any sort of delay to the death when it happens.
I don't think anyone is defending, they are just looking for logical reasons why there's a delay. Ergo understanding why a delay might have or has happened for something.
Understanding can help temper expectations for the future. Eg if you know that product X was delayed because of a general shipping issue then you can expect more delays on other products. But if it was delayed because of a purely internal thing - eg a mixup on some components - then you know it might have a reduced knock on effect on other unrelated products etc....
if there is a delay, we just assume GW won't be that stupid to skip the 40th anniversary, but that was already at Warhammer Fest and the chance already missed with that event
for now all we have is that it was always planned for 2024, and GW just never thought that the people associate Warhammer (the generic brand) with TOW, the same way people don't expect TOW when visiting a Warhammer store
H.B.M.C. wrote: Surely - surely - today is the day when The Old World will be properly revealed, right?
Not just another "And here's a new Bretonnian minis that will come out sometime in the future!" nonsense we've gotten up to now, right?
I hope so just to put a stop to the ludicrous ‘2025’ claims every other post.
Edit: lol, hadn’t gone on to the next page. Kinda have to admire the commitment to something so in danger of being disproven within hours.
Come again?
I take no pleasure in being so right about them revealing a few bretonnians and blueballing us for a release. I am however a little ashamed at believing they MIGHT have shown a tomb king model, that was obviously too optimistic. My apologies for not being realistic enough.
2025 release is the most likely looking at what they have now.
caladancid wrote: If I was GW, I would be totally fine with throwing out very speculative release dates knowing that a portion of the fanbase will 1) buy it and 2) defend any sort of delay to the death when it happens.
I don't think anyone is defending, they are just looking for logical reasons why there's a delay. Ergo understanding why a delay might have or has happened for something.
Understanding can help temper expectations for the future. Eg if you know that product X was delayed because of a general shipping issue then you can expect more delays on other products. But if it was delayed because of a purely internal thing - eg a mixup on some components - then you know it might have a reduced knock on effect on other unrelated products etc....
if there is a delay, we just assume GW won't be that stupid to skip the 40th anniversary, but that was already at Warhammer Fest and the chance already missed with that event
for now all we have is that it was always planned for 2024, and GW just never thought that the people associate Warhammer (the generic brand) with TOW, the same way people don't expect TOW when visiting a Warhammer store
Well that's your assumption. We know neither though
I take no pleasure in being so right about them revealing a few bretonnians and blueballing us for a release. I am however a little ashamed at believing they MIGHT have shown a tomb king model, that was obviously too optimistic. My apologies for not being realistic enough.
2025 release is the most likely looking at what they have now.
Uuh...seeing they just confirmed early 2024 release...you MIGHT want to reconsider that last phrase.
Or you seriously claim to know tow release date better than gw itself?
It's 2024. 2024. 2024. 2024.
How many more repeats you want?-)
Rather funny you keep going on about 2025 literally barely after hour gw flat out proved you wrong.
caladancid wrote: If I was GW, I would be totally fine with throwing out very speculative release dates knowing that a portion of the fanbase will 1) buy it and 2) defend any sort of delay to the death when it happens.
I don't think anyone is defending, they are just looking for logical reasons why there's a delay. Ergo understanding why a delay might have or has happened for something.
Understanding can help temper expectations for the future. Eg if you know that product X was delayed because of a general shipping issue then you can expect more delays on other products. But if it was delayed because of a purely internal thing - eg a mixup on some components - then you know it might have a reduced knock on effect on other unrelated products etc....
if there is a delay, we just assume GW won't be that stupid to skip the 40th anniversary, but that was already at Warhammer Fest and the chance already missed with that event
for now all we have is that it was always planned for 2024, and GW just never thought that the people associate Warhammer (the generic brand) with TOW, the same way people don't expect TOW when visiting a Warhammer store
Well that's your assumption. We know neither though
I take no pleasure in being so right about them revealing a few bretonnians and blueballing us for a release. I am however a little ashamed at believing they MIGHT have shown a tomb king model, that was obviously too optimistic. My apologies for not being realistic enough.
2025 release is the most likely looking at what they have now.
Uuh...seeing they just confirmed early 2024 release...you MIGHT want to reconsider that last phrase.
Or you seriously claim to know tow release date better than gw itself?
It's 2024. 2024. 2024. 2024.
How many more repeats you want?-)
I believe that when I see it. Untill then, no way this game is 6 months from release, as they try to bs the congregation into believing, and I doubt it'll be a christmas 2024 release too.
tneva82 wrote: Well that's your assumption. We know neither though
and the other assumption is simply based on wishful thinking and now searching for an excuse so that they were still right
if GW does not even delay the supplement release for LI, which is just stupid to get that stuff previewed before the actual game is released, no chance that TOW was always planned for that slot
because that slot was planned for LI add-ons
I believe that when I see it. Untill then, no way this game is 6 months from release, as they try to bs the congregation into believing, and I doubt it'll be a christmas 2024 release too.
Ah. So ego prevents admitting being wrong and you'll keep repeating 2025 even when it's in stores front of you january 2024.
Off to ignore list. Not worth my time to read your posts more.
caladancid wrote: If I was GW, I would be totally fine with throwing out very speculative release dates knowing that a portion of the fanbase will 1) buy it and 2) defend any sort of delay to the death when it happens.
I don't think anyone is defending, they are just looking for logical reasons why there's a delay. Ergo understanding why a delay might have or has happened for something.
Understanding can help temper expectations for the future. Eg if you know that product X was delayed because of a general shipping issue then you can expect more delays on other products. But if it was delayed because of a purely internal thing - eg a mixup on some components - then you know it might have a reduced knock on effect on other unrelated products etc....
if there is a delay, we just assume GW won't be that stupid to skip the 40th anniversary, but that was already at Warhammer Fest and the chance already missed with that event
for now all we have is that it was always planned for 2024, and GW just never thought that the people associate Warhammer (the generic brand) with TOW, the same way people don't expect TOW when visiting a Warhammer store
Well that's your assumption. We know neither though
I take no pleasure in being so right about them revealing a few bretonnians and blueballing us for a release. I am however a little ashamed at believing they MIGHT have shown a tomb king model, that was obviously too optimistic. My apologies for not being realistic enough.
2025 release is the most likely looking at what they have now.
Uuh...seeing they just confirmed early 2024 release...you MIGHT want to reconsider that last phrase.
Or you seriously claim to know tow release date better than gw itself?
It's 2024. 2024. 2024. 2024.
How many more repeats you want?-)
I believe that when I see it. Untill then, no way this game is 6 months from release, as they try to bs the congregation into believing, and I doubt it'll be a christmas 2024 release too.
Congregation is a great way of describing it haha.
GaroRobe wrote: We’ve seen the plastic sprue for the Pegasus. The rest are either 1 new plastic unit, returning models, or resin
Why is it unlikely to be ready next year??
releasing Bretonnia early next year is out of question
For the sane portion of the readership, here's the announcement in writing.
Now the phrase “at launch” has been used a lot, and we are delighted to be able to confirm that Warhammer: The Old World will be released in early 2024. As we get closer to release we’ll be revealing more details of this game of fantasy battles in the World of Legend, and revealing plenty exciting things including miniatures and books.
So to confirm, one of the flagship releases for TOW consists of a single plastic unit, a plastic hero set, and 4 resin characters?
That's less content than I would expect for an 8E army book update.
Mozzamanx wrote: So to confirm, one of the flagship releases for TOW consists of a single plastic unit, a plastic hero set, and 4 resin characters?
That's less content than I would expect for an 8E army book update.
Seems consistent with what we've been shown especially this year. GW wants all the nostalgia monies but none of the risk of investing in a potential dud. It's conservative to the point of torpedoing the game's success. In a way it doesn't get more GW than that.
Does the 2024 launch include Kislev? Cathay? Tomb Kings? Those were the releases they teased to excite gamers like me.
If 2024 just sees a book, Bretonnia, Emoire and a handful of rereleased old models for some of the old ranges, then I would say they did not reall deliver on the tease. It would be a great big Made to Order, and great for people who think the rules are the important part of a release, but a total dud as far as I’m concerned.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Does the 2024 launch include Kislev? Cathay? Tomb Kings? Those were the releases they teased to excite gamers like me.
If 2024 just sees a book, Bretonnia, Emoire and a handful of rereleased old models for some of the old ranges, then I would say they did not reall deliver on the tease. It would be a great big Made to Order, and great for people who think the rules are the important part of a release, but a total dud as far as I’m concerned.
Kislev and Cathay aren’t coming, anytime soon at least. We had a list of factions that are being focused on to start with and they aren’t among them.
It occurred to me that while they are hyping "big box" regiment kits containing a full size unit in a single box, the previewed foot knights appear to come in a box of 10. On the one hand they are a "small elite unit" which make sense in a 10 man box, on the flip side, thats not really a "regiment", is it?
I believe that when I see it. Untill then, no way this game is 6 months from release, as they try to bs the congregation into believing, and I doubt it'll be a christmas 2024 release too.
Ah. So ego prevents admitting being wrong and you'll keep repeating 2025 even when it's in stores front of you january 2024.
Off to ignore list. Not worth my time to read your posts more.
Yeah, totally bizarre temper tantrum or whatever for this guy to be taking. They literally said it will be one of the first releases out of the door in early 2024. If GW is willing to confirm that then its as good as a done deal, only way it gets pushed back is if they have to last minute destroy all the rulebooks and reprint them like they did with LI.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Does the 2024 launch include Kislev? Cathay? Tomb Kings? Those were the releases they teased to excite gamers like me.
If 2024 just sees a book, Bretonnia, Emoire and a handful of rereleased old models for some of the old ranges, then I would say they did not reall deliver on the tease. It would be a great big Made to Order, and great for people who think the rules are the important part of a release, but a total dud as far as I’m concerned.
All signs point to "no". As has been discussed ad nauseum, this seems to be a "soft launch" focused on getting the rules out and getting people playing rather than a full on hard launch with all new models and content like we've come to expect from Horus Heresy, AoS, 40k, etc. New core rulebook plus rules for the 9 or whatever core factions plus pdfs legends army lists for the 7 factions that are cut from the game. Return of the legacy model kits for those core factions plus a literal handful of new plastic kits for Tomb Kings and Bretonnia and a bunch of new resin heroes and whatnot, followed by a slow dribble of new plastics/resins for some of the other factions. Theres no timeline on Kislev or Cathay or anything really substantial beyond that, I suspect we may see a substantial release of new models for Kislev or another faction late next year or possibly in the 2025 timeframe. TBH I don't think Cathay is coming for quite some time, possibly several years.
chaos0xomega wrote: It occurred to me that while they are hyping "big box" regiment kits containing a full size unit in a single box, the previewed foot knights appear to come in a box of 10. On the one hand they are a "small elite unit" which make sense in a 10 man box, on the flip side, thats not really a "regiment", is it?
guess even GW figured out that let people pay current prices for old models in a 10-16 model box is a little too much
so putting more models in the box so it looks less bad
on the other hand, if 32 models is the new standard size aka a "full regiment" at 8x4, this will be 24cm wide and you won't fit a lot of those "full regiments" on a 6x4 table
new characters look nice, guessing resin so a "no" here. Hoping the foot knights are plastic, of all the new stuff thats the one I *really* want to be plastic, and the one unit the old 6th edition book was sorely missing
chaos0xomega wrote: The foot knights were confirmed plastic, thats not even a subject of debate.
Excellent, hadn't heard that, this is excellent news and they seem to aesthetically be a good fit with the rest, a box, perhaps even pushed to two will be added. have a few other games human knights on foot will work for as well so happy with that
chaos0xomega wrote: It occurred to me that while they are hyping "big box" regiment kits containing a full size unit in a single box, the previewed foot knights appear to come in a box of 10. On the one hand they are a "small elite unit" which make sense in a 10 man box, on the flip side, thats not really a "regiment", is it?
I believe that when I see it. Untill then, no way this game is 6 months from release, as they try to bs the congregation into believing, and I doubt it'll be a christmas 2024 release too.
Ah. So ego prevents admitting being wrong and you'll keep repeating 2025 even when it's in stores front of you january 2024.
Off to ignore list. Not worth my time to read your posts more.
Yeah, totally bizarre temper tantrum or whatever for this guy to be taking. They literally said it will be one of the first releases out of the door in early 2024. If GW is willing to confirm that then its as good as a done deal, only way it gets pushed back is if they have to last minute destroy all the rulebooks and reprint them like they did with LI.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Does the 2024 launch include Kislev? Cathay? Tomb Kings? Those were the releases they teased to excite gamers like me.
If 2024 just sees a book, Bretonnia, Emoire and a handful of rereleased old models for some of the old ranges, then I would say they did not reall deliver on the tease. It would be a great big Made to Order, and great for people who think the rules are the important part of a release, but a total dud as far as I’m concerned.
All signs point to "no". As has been discussed ad nauseum, this seems to be a "soft launch" focused on getting the rules out and getting people playing rather than a full on hard launch with all new models and content like we've come to expect from Horus Heresy, AoS, 40k, etc. New core rulebook plus rules for the 9 or whatever core factions plus pdfs legends army lists for the 7 factions that are cut from the game. Return of the legacy model kits for those core factions plus a literal handful of new plastic kits for Tomb Kings and Bretonnia and a bunch of new resin heroes and whatnot, followed by a slow dribble of new plastics/resins for some of the other factions. Theres no timeline on Kislev or Cathay or anything really substantial beyond that, I suspect we may see a substantial release of new models for Kislev or another faction late next year or possibly in the 2025 timeframe. TBH I don't think Cathay is coming for quite some time, possibly several years.
Three years later, even you admit that appears to be as good as gone. And yet, you and others still take and defend GW's word as good and react so strongly to those who rightfully question them. Baffling.
chaos0xomega wrote: It occurred to me that while they are hyping "big box" regiment kits containing a full size unit in a single box, the previewed foot knights appear to come in a box of 10. On the one hand they are a "small elite unit" which make sense in a 10 man box, on the flip side, thats not really a "regiment", is it?
Depends. All the pictured regiments so far have been on the small side - 10 foot knights, 18 peasant infantry, 6 mounted knights etc. That might just be down to unspecified practical reasons (e.g. that is all they have painted at the moment), or it could be an indicator that they are basing the game scale off of earlier editions of warhammer where those kind of regiment sizes were actually fairly typical. That would make sense for pandering to a sense of 1990s nostalgia and it would also help to keep the cost of entry in check. Harping back to an era where swordmasters typically came in units of 6-12 rather than 40-50 would certainly tempt a lot more people into buying in.
rybackstun wrote: Pegasus Paladin and Paladin with Banner are dope. Foot Knights are also dope.
Im happy with what I've seen
I dont mind resin, so I'm happy with all I've seen. Models looks good. Cant wait to give them a brighter look and paint job. And the unicorn with roses and barefeet rider is my favorite looking all time bretonnia model I think, after green knight.
I got the resin Eisenhorn from the US site last year and it wasn't FW resin. However, it wasn't quite Finecast either. It's doable but I've had better resin elsewhere.
frankelee wrote: I guess it probably shouldn't be surprising the Kislev ice guard might be scrapped. It was very not-Warhammer-Fantasy-Battles.
It was lore friendly given the Ice Witches importance in Kislev and they were very similar to the Sisters of Avelorn.
They were approved by GW for Total War Warhammer and so are extremely unlikely not to appear in the Kislev army book if and when it appears.
Warhammer is not all nameless nobodies hunting skaven in the sewers - esp Fantasy Batlle with Greater Daemons, Dragons, Screaming Bells, Coven Thrones, etc etc
chaos0xomega wrote: It occurred to me that while they are hyping "big box" regiment kits containing a full size unit in a single box, the previewed foot knights appear to come in a box of 10. On the one hand they are a "small elite unit" which make sense in a 10 man box, on the flip side, thats not really a "regiment", is it?
I believe that when I see it. Untill then, no way this game is 6 months from release, as they try to bs the congregation into believing, and I doubt it'll be a christmas 2024 release too.
Ah. So ego prevents admitting being wrong and you'll keep repeating 2025 even when it's in stores front of you january 2024.
Off to ignore list. Not worth my time to read your posts more.
Yeah, totally bizarre temper tantrum or whatever for this guy to be taking. They literally said it will be one of the first releases out of the door in early 2024. If GW is willing to confirm that then its as good as a done deal, only way it gets pushed back is if they have to last minute destroy all the rulebooks and reprint them like they did with LI.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Does the 2024 launch include Kislev? Cathay? Tomb Kings? Those were the releases they teased to excite gamers like me.
If 2024 just sees a book, Bretonnia, Emoire and a handful of rereleased old models for some of the old ranges, then I would say they did not reall deliver on the tease. It would be a great big Made to Order, and great for people who think the rules are the important part of a release, but a total dud as far as I’m concerned.
All signs point to "no". As has been discussed ad nauseum, this seems to be a "soft launch" focused on getting the rules out and getting people playing rather than a full on hard launch with all new models and content like we've come to expect from Horus Heresy, AoS, 40k, etc. New core rulebook plus rules for the 9 or whatever core factions plus pdfs legends army lists for the 7 factions that are cut from the game. Return of the legacy model kits for those core factions plus a literal handful of new plastic kits for Tomb Kings and Bretonnia and a bunch of new resin heroes and whatnot, followed by a slow dribble of new plastics/resins for some of the other factions. Theres no timeline on Kislev or Cathay or anything really substantial beyond that, I suspect we may see a substantial release of new models for Kislev or another faction late next year or possibly in the 2025 timeframe. TBH I don't think Cathay is coming for quite some time, possibly several years.
Three years later, even you admit that appears to be as good as gone. And yet, you and others still take and defend GW's word as good and react so strongly to those who rightfully question them. Baffling.
Bizarrely insisting the game isn’t coming out until 2025 when we’ve been told it’s like 3 months away isn’t ‘questioning’, it’s being obstinate.
The hero on Pegasus is beautiful, and we can finally see the complete figurine. My only complaint is that I would have liked to see three different Pegasus heads and an alternative wing position to differentiate the three heroes.
The foot knights are fine, maybe a bit too detailed for my taste.
There's nothing special to say about the resin figurine.
But let's be honest, the pose and details of the old models are not up to par, and clearly, that will prevent me from making an impulsive purchase. It would have been good not to relaunch something that is 15 years old with a more limited but high-quality range (like the Cities of Sigmar) and not end up with mediocre basic troops.
chaos0xomega wrote: It occurred to me that while they are hyping "big box" regiment kits containing a full size unit in a single box, the previewed foot knights appear to come in a box of 10. On the one hand they are a "small elite unit" which make sense in a 10 man box, on the flip side, thats not really a "regiment", is it?
I believe that when I see it. Untill then, no way this game is 6 months from release, as they try to bs the congregation into believing, and I doubt it'll be a christmas 2024 release too.
Ah. So ego prevents admitting being wrong and you'll keep repeating 2025 even when it's in stores front of you january 2024.
Off to ignore list. Not worth my time to read your posts more.
Yeah, totally bizarre temper tantrum or whatever for this guy to be taking. They literally said it will be one of the first releases out of the door in early 2024. If GW is willing to confirm that then its as good as a done deal, only way it gets pushed back is if they have to last minute destroy all the rulebooks and reprint them like they did with LI.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Does the 2024 launch include Kislev? Cathay? Tomb Kings? Those were the releases they teased to excite gamers like me.
If 2024 just sees a book, Bretonnia, Emoire and a handful of rereleased old models for some of the old ranges, then I would say they did not reall deliver on the tease. It would be a great big Made to Order, and great for people who think the rules are the important part of a release, but a total dud as far as I’m concerned.
All signs point to "no". As has been discussed ad nauseum, this seems to be a "soft launch" focused on getting the rules out and getting people playing rather than a full on hard launch with all new models and content like we've come to expect from Horus Heresy, AoS, 40k, etc. New core rulebook plus rules for the 9 or whatever core factions plus pdfs legends army lists for the 7 factions that are cut from the game. Return of the legacy model kits for those core factions plus a literal handful of new plastic kits for Tomb Kings and Bretonnia and a bunch of new resin heroes and whatnot, followed by a slow dribble of new plastics/resins for some of the other factions. Theres no timeline on Kislev or Cathay or anything really substantial beyond that, I suspect we may see a substantial release of new models for Kislev or another faction late next year or possibly in the 2025 timeframe. TBH I don't think Cathay is coming for quite some time, possibly several years.
Why would I deny it? I just stated I expect Kislev to be a follow-on launch. If you scroll past the last few pages I've been pointing out that Kislev is narratively present in what we know to be the setting of the first wave of releases in. Hell, thats not even the only article confirming that Kislev would be coming to The Old World, theres 5 or 6 total discussing it.
Three years later, even you admit that appears to be as good as gone. And yet, you and others still take and defend GW's word as good and react so strongly to those who rightfully question them. Baffling.
Here's the problem, and I'll make it as simple as I can for you - I'm not dense and I'm not impatient, and I know how to exercise common sense. It probably also helps that I work in manufacturing and have had enough interaction with GW insiders to know how ridiculously long it takes them to produce pretty much anything, and understand full well that even without the pandemic, ERP, and supply chain issues that GW has been faced with it would have been unlikely for Kislev to have been released within a 3 year timeframe. Nor did GW promise you that Kislev or the game would be released in 2023 - in fact, it was pretty unlikely to begin with as they announced the game at the end of 2019 and said to expect "three or more" years before release, and that was just before we were hit by a global pandemic (just 3 months later) that generally disrupted business timelines globally by about 12-18 months on average.
Point is, I can read a warcom article about what are variously labeled as "main factions", "core factions", and "returning factions", etc. and understand that this doesn't preclude the existence of factions which are "minor factions", "secondary factions", or "new factions", etc. such as Kislev. I can look at a newly drawn map of the Border Princes region created for the game and notice that they created some entirely new principalities, one of which is Kislev influenced, and infer from that that it wasn't a coincidence nor an accident and that this is the narrative opening needed for the inclusion of Kislev in an area not traditionally associated with Kislev. I can read an article that explicitly says that Kislev will be coming to the tabletop, and understand that this doesn't mean that they are first in line. I can read an article that says that Kislev bear minis are still a long way off, and understand that means that it will take time for them to come.
That you are "questioning" (thats certainly a polite word to describe the behavior) GW is a "you" problem, not a "me" problem, nor a "GW" problem. GW never promised you that Kislev would be first out of the gate, nor that they would be a big player or an important faction or a core faction nor be available on launch, nor be featured in a starter box, etc. If thats what you thought was going to happen or expected, thats a "you" problem. GW has told us that Kislev will be featured in the game, and thats enough for me to know that they will, in fact, be featured in the game when they are done and ready to do so, in whatever form they take. GW is now telling us that the game will launch within a few months in early 2024, and thats pretty much word of god and theres not much need to question it. GW knows what its production timetables look like and generally has a solid picture of its product pipeline looking at least 6 months out. If they are telling us early 2024 its because it actually is coming in early 2024. At this stage their development on launch product is coming to a close, molds have been or are being cut, books are going through final layout and revision, etc. This isn't a situation in which they say "early 2024" and then a year from now they say "just kidding, we actually had nothing done at the time and we were just overly ambitious and thought we could start it up and get it done in a few days like when we were cramming for our exams at school".
In general, I would say the biggest problem that a large segment of this community has had is a failure to manage expectations from the very beginning. GW was pretty upfront that this would not be a continuation of WHFB but instead a whole new game in a semi-familiar setting, and it was pretty clear early on this was being headed up by forgeworld/specialist studio rather than the "main studio" which meant that there would be resource limitations with regards to what they could realistically accomplish, etc. Likewise they were very clear it would take *years* to get it out the door. There were obviously going to be changes and limitations and things would not go the way that the majority seemed to want/expect. If you go back far enough into dakka history you will see that I was involved in some pretty heated and acrimonious debates about what to expect from the very start, and while there were some things I was certainly wrong about (did not expect to see High Elves, I figured Vampire Counts and Skaven would be included, I was also lobbying hard for this to possibly be a return of Warmaster instead of WHFB, etc. and expected the launch to be Empire-focused with two factions made up of new Empire kits fighting the civil war/three emperors conflict), there were many more things I was right on the money about (no lizardmen, no dark elves, set in a different era that limits the presence of certain units and technologies, size/scale differences vs old WHFB - particularly with regards to base sizes, etc.). There were quite a few of us who urged caution and recommended that people not run out and buy an army of legacy kits and start building/painting stuff up so far in advance of release until it became clearer what was going on, but there were many more who ignored us, told us we were obtuse or whatever, and went out and did it anyway - those are the people who are now the most pissed off and angry about TOW, and its overwhelmingly their own fault for jumping to conclusions (as such I have zero sympathy nor pity for them).
Then there are those people who were sensible enough not to go out and buy a new army for the game without knowing anything at all about it, but still jumped to conclusion and had expectations that reality does not meet. Many of these people inferred information into statements and articles that they didn't actually say and created understandings of the situation for themselves that go completely against established precedent for how GW usually conducts business, etc. Sucks that these people were let down by the fantasy they created for themsleves in their own head, but again thats a "you" problem, not a "me" or a "GW" problem. The only thing you can really blame GW for is not being more explicitly clear in its communication about what to expect, but I don't think even GW had a solid picture of that until relatively recently - and even then what are they supposed to do when a large segment of the community and fanbase has basically just been making gak up whole clothe out of thin air for the past 3 years about what this game would and wouldn't be, evne when GW has been explicit and direct in trying to communicate something different?
So, back to your original statement - no, I'm not going to admit that Kislev is "as good as gone", because I never expected them to show up so soon to begin with in the first place, nor do I understand the recent lack of mention of them to mean that they have been shelved or abandoned. Likewise I am not "defending GW" so much as I am attacking the ridiculous, unreasonable, and illogical mental gymnastics that some are using to distort reality.
GW is now telling us that the game will launch within a few months in early 2024, and thats pretty much word of god and theres not much need to question it.
???.
I dont know where reality ends and satire begins anymore.
I believe, from my 3 decades of consumer experience, that such a launch, if it happens, will be very limited compared to even just a pdf Ravening horde/6th MRB reprint and old sets for the 9 factions they have promised. From what they've shown, it seems doubtfull there can by a full release in a few months. Sorry, but thats just from what we've been shown and told.
I don't see why you're so cynical about it. GW usually gives us even less of a window to work with when they are launching a new edition of 40k or AoS, and those usually come with a lot more product than they have promised us for TOW. Now they're giving us a 3-6 month window with the promise of not having to release very much of anything and you're acting like its some impossible task.
I imagine the release will be something like this in theory:
March (just as an example): The Old World Starter Set (I'm guessing Tomb Kings vs. Brets), Old World Rulebook as well as 4-5 Plastic Boxes per faction of mostly old miniatures. This will be accompanied by made to order heroes/finecast stuff from GW and some new resins from FW.
April: Two other faction battalion boxes, plus 4-5 kits per faction and associated made to order, etc......
I don't really see that being that incredible to be honest. I mean the the launch weekend release will likely be smaller than the Space Marine wave they just launched and will require much less production/distribution. That Space Marine wave probably sold more kits than the entire Old World Range will in its entire first year.
Considering GW has had years to make stock of the old kits they are rereleasing, are not releasing that many new ones, and that TOW will likely be a pretty niche game and not require a massive volume of kits to be produced like 40k - I just don't see why there is any reason they won't be able to get it done.
My bar for ToW is set so low, the theory you propose would make me happy.
I just want to play my old armies in a rule set that's not 8th and I want to get some old Empire & Bret plastics, plus a completely new model here and there. If they throw me a bone and rerelease Forsaken, I will be over the moon.
Good to finally have an idea of what sort of launch the game will have. I hope they bring back grail pilgrims too, and the empire archer kit. The Pegasus is really nice too, lots of options
GW is now telling us that the game will launch within a few months in early 2024, and thats pretty much word of god and theres not much need to question it.
???.
I dont know where reality ends and satire begins anymore.
I believe, from my 3 decades of consumer experience, that such a launch, if it happens, will be very limited compared to even just a pdf Ravening horde/6th MRB reprint and old sets for the 9 factions they have promised. From what they've shown, it seems doubtfull there can by a full release in a few months. Sorry, but thats just from what we've been shown and told.
Time will show.
Earlier when you said congregation, I thought it was funny. I did not think it would be unironically proven true in the same few hours.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Games Workshop and Forgeworld are both notorious for the shoddy quality of their resin.
Maybe in large kits where there's potential for warping. I've got more Forgeworld resin than a sensible person should have and I don't think I've ever had a problem with any of them.
Finecast always had bubbles in various places which needed fixing, but thankfully that's not what we're getting.
The things like the Treb and Unicorn do have the potential to be priced insanely, but the single normal characters should hopefully be ok.
Why are people dubious over an early 2024 release? All GW has to do is publish the main rulebook, pump out a few limited release army boxes and offer a lot of old stuff over direct only/made to order. The game may not be complete, with every model / army playable out of the gate, but there'll be a game out there.
Warhammer Community wrote:These regiments and other future regiments are returning in boxes that contain enough plastic miniatures... to build a unit of 32 archers, complete with a command group and Defensive Stakes. So dreams of creating massive armies of ranked-up troops will be well within your grasp.
I wonder if this points the way to a game scaled to very large units like 8th? It almost certainly points to paying a premium GW tag for old kits, justification being that there are quite a few more than the 10 in a kit you'd get in other ranges.
Chuffed with the Brettonian kits they have shown off though, the new plastics look superb and the footknights are up there with the pick of the bunch in today's reveals as far as I'm concerned (The Dragon and Kurnoth were amazing as well).
Looking forward to see what they've done with Tomb Kings next, I've been pleasantly surprised so far. (bar was set quite low to be fair hehe)
Shakalooloo wrote: Why are people dubious over an early 2024 release? All GW has to do is publish the main rulebook, pump out a few limited release army boxes and offer a lot of old stuff over direct only/made to order. The game may not be complete, with every model / army playable out of the gate, but there'll be a game out there.
I think its because there's this optimistic idea GW are going to release this with all the factions. Which as you suggest, won't happen.
But then GW have been loathe to put out rules without models for ages - so it feels like a strange sort of stuation.
My expectation for the release would be something like:
Early 2024: Rules and "Not-A-Starter Box".
A month, probably 2 later: Brets.
A month or two after that: TKs.
Two or three months later, next faction.
I think it could take 18 months to 2 years for all the "core factions" or whatever to be sort of available to buy. Maybe that's too slow. But I can't see them pushing 40-50 kits out (old or new) in a say six months. It would use up too much bandwidth unless they have nothing else across their other games.
chaos0xomega wrote: GW is now telling us that the game will launch within a few months in early 2024, and thats pretty much word of god and theres not much need to question it.
Far be it from us to question the word of our God, Games Workshop Group PLC (Subhanahu wa ta’ala), but they do push back release dates. That is a thing that happens.
I'm looking forward to a certain section of people lose their over there being women foot knights.
There's very little visual difference between a man and a woman of the same height in most armors. The padding underneath goes a long way toward hiding feminine curves. Unless it's specifically configured to highlight her (ahem) feminine assets or she takes off her helmet, even a pretty busty woman in a breastplate won't be all that obvious.
Consider Eowyn in the LOTR movies. Yes, we know it's her, we recognize her face. But is she not OBVIOUSLY a woman until she takes off her helmet.
So my army features several female knights, even if you can't tell which ones they are, and you can't prove otherwise.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Games Workshop and Forgeworld are both notorious for the shoddy quality of their resin.
Forgeworld will send you replacements if the quality is bad though. You just need to send pics and proof that you bought it from them, and they'll likely send you the full model again (or at least the part) and let you keep the defect sculpt. It's not like you're stuck with a shoddy model and can't do anything about it.
I'm more concerned about the foot knight kit. It could be that the boxset will have multiple identical kits, but I can't help but notice that two of the knights have the same helmets (the bull heads). And the knight with the standard has the same body as the knight on the back right. I hope the kit has ten unique bodies, not five.
I'm looking forward to a certain section of people lose their over there being women foot knights.
There's very little visual difference between a man and a woman of the same height in most armors. The padding underneath goes a long way toward hiding feminine curves. Unless it's specifically configured to highlight her (ahem) feminine assets or she takes off her helmet, even a pretty busty woman in a breastplate won't be all that obvious.
Consider Eowyn in the LOTR movies. Yes, we know it's her, we recognize her face. But is she not OBVIOUSLY a woman until she takes off her helmet.
So my army features several female knights, even if you can't tell which ones they are, and you can't prove otherwise.
Most of the Riders in the movie were women! It was the only way to get enough skilled horse riders.
frankelee wrote: I guess it probably shouldn't be surprising the Kislev ice guard might be scrapped. It was very not-Warhammer-Fantasy-Battles.
They weren't something pulled out of nowhere that was a sudden change for how Kislev was depicted.
Ice witches wielding magical frost weapons and having an import place in Kislev society is perfectly fitting with their lore.
Sorry guise, but I don't know much about the retcon lore post 6th edition. It very well can be that it fit WFB in 2015, or WFB in 2024, either way it's a very late and significant tonal change from what the game was. And I remember a lot of people on the internet saying it came across as kind of weird and not very Warhammer. And of course those types of Kislev troops weren't models at any point right up through the End Times. But if GeeDubs is hoping to sell the game to middle aged guys with too much disposable income then it still wouldn't surprise me if they at least didn't prioritize stuff that those of us who played in the 90s and 2000s don't recognize as being legitimately within the tone and feel of the setting.
GaroRobe wrote: Forgeworld will send you replacements if the quality is bad though. You just need to send pics and proof that you bought it from them, and they'll likely send you the full model again (or at least the part) and let you keep the defect sculpt. It's not like you're stuck with a shoddy model and can't do anything about it.
For the most part that's true, I did have one model that was crap and emailed FW about it and they said they had run out of stock, so my only option was to return the one I had for a refund or just deal with the miscast.
Vorian wrote: What's the issue with some characters being resin?
They aren't a million miles off the price of the plastic ones
There's quite a few reasons. Not liking resin is one. Modern FW models are made from 3D printed masters and after getting a couple of models with 3D printer lines on them, my desire to buy more FW has significantly diminished. For people who don't like in the UK and US, Forge World can take fecking ages to deliver. I think my last FW order was something like 4 weeks delivery time. While bubbles and miscasts aren't as common as they were with Finecast, they're still a thing. Also some people like to buy from independent stores, and FW is direct only.
Convincing someone to get into a game when a portion of the range is FW only is far more difficult than if it's not.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Games Workshop and Forgeworld are both notorious for the shoddy quality of their resin.
Forgeworld will send you replacements if the quality is bad though. You just need to send pics and proof that you bought it from them, and they'll likely send you the full model again (or at least the part) and let you keep the defect sculpt. It's not like you're stuck with a shoddy model and can't do anything about it.
I'm more concerned about the foot knight kit. It could be that the boxset will have multiple identical kits, but I can't help but notice that two of the knights have the same helmets (the bull heads). And the knight with the standard has the same body as the knight on the back right. I hope the kit has ten unique bodies, not five.
Spoiler:
The same body is doubled up in the sword armed unit too, and trying to peer through the nest of helmet decorations and weapons, I think I can see repeated details further back in the unit as well. Looks like 5 bodies.
Is that supposed to be a woman? The only thing suggesting that to my eyes is the lack of a handlebar moustache. I assumed that it was just a younger male.
Lord Damocles wrote: Is that supposed to be a woman? The only thing suggesting that to my eyes is the lack of a handlebar moustache. I assumed that it was just a younger male.
Yes, it's a female head. I'll grant you it can be a little hard to tell because she's not wearing an obvious fake mustache.
In better days she would have just worn a chain bikini. All of the armor protection with none of the ambiguity. Good times, but sadly long gone.
lord_blackfang wrote: Well those new plastics are actually fantastic. Now I'm actually excited to see what they do for my beloved Tomb Kings.
You get 2 kits, one will be a character. Choose wisely.
Used to have whole units of mummies, back in the day. Given that we're getting foot knights for Bretonnia, maybe it's time for a plastic regiment of elite mummy infantry?
lord_blackfang wrote: Well those new plastics are actually fantastic. Now I'm actually excited to see what they do for my beloved Tomb Kings.
You get 2 kits, one will be a character. Choose wisely.
Used to have whole units of mummies, back in the day. Given that we're getting foot knights for Bretonnia, maybe it's time for a plastic regiment of elite mummy infantry?
I for one can't wait to have a new plastic elite regiment for that nostalgic feeling of having to buy sucky old Core models to play the modern models. It will be good to see for GW to be respectful of the army's defining feature!
Anyway, mummies are a bit of tough one. They're from a time when undead were the classic horror show lineup, minus the wolfman. Functionally Tomb Guard has taken over the mummified elite troops slot, even if the bandages have been very conservatively applied on the metal models and a bit less so on the plastic replacements. They're still pretty bare in that regard and don't live up to the artwork in the 6th ed army book. But considering that Tomb Guard is a new plastic kit, I don't think the same unit with more bandages is likely if we get an equivalent number of new kits to Bretonnians.
I see they paint the eyes inside the helmets. Thats classy!
So, the article said the stuff they show there is the full lineup for Bretonnia.
That leave out units like mounted yeoman, grail knighs and my favourite -the questing knights, as well as the grail reliqua.
I suppose old metal/finecast stuff might get a "made to order" slot.
Alongside these new and returning kits which form the bulk (or entirety) of your force, there will also be a selection of returning metal heroes and specialist units that will be available to order direct from games-workshop.com.
Presumably these will include Grail/Errant/questing knights at least
The Treb is being resin-ed because it's a nightmare to assemble in metal.
frankelee wrote: I guess it probably shouldn't be surprising the Kislev ice guard might be scrapped. It was very not-Warhammer-Fantasy-Battles.
They weren't something pulled out of nowhere that was a sudden change for how Kislev was depicted.
Ice witches wielding magical frost weapons and having an import place in Kislev society is perfectly fitting with their lore.
Sorry guise, but I don't know much about the retcon lore post 6th edition. It very well can be that it fit WFB in 2015, or WFB in 2024, either way it's a very late and significant tonal change from what the game was. And I remember a lot of people on the internet saying it came across as kind of weird and not very Warhammer. And of course those types of Kislev troops weren't models at any point right up through the End Times. But if GeeDubs is hoping to sell the game to middle aged guys with too much disposable income then it still wouldn't surprise me if they at least didn't prioritize stuff that those of us who played in the 90s and 2000s don't recognize as being legitimately within the tone and feel of the setting.
No - this is fitting with lore from the very beginning - mostly initially established by 1st Edition and 2nd WFRP back in the period you are talking about or earlier.
So yes it is perfectly within the setting - always has been.
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Souleater wrote: The jawline of the other models is much squarer, while her features are smaller/finer than those of her compatriots.
I am not aware they said that figure was female - was it on the stream? I would think you can use it as either a woman or a male with somwhat femine features - after all it will make no difference on the tabletop.
Geifer wrote: Anyway, mummies are a bit of tough one. They're from a time when undead were the classic horror show lineup, minus the wolfman. Functionally Tomb Guard has taken over the mummified elite troops slot,
They could slide them in as a not-quite-heroes unit above Tomb Guard, similar to where Putrid Blightkings sit in the WoC stat hierarchy,
If I had to choose anything to be upgraded it would be the skeleton horses, they are probably my least favourite thing to clean and assemble.
Geifer wrote: Anyway, mummies are a bit of tough one. They're from a time when undead were the classic horror show lineup, minus the wolfman. Functionally Tomb Guard has taken over the mummified elite troops slot,
They could slide them in as a not-quite-heroes unit above Tomb Guard, similar to where Putrid Blightkings sit in the WoC stat hierarchy,
I guess. Seems like we already have Ushabti that provide something similar in game terms and snake surfers for more elite or higher status Tomb Guard in the fluff.
Now, all of this with the caveat that I'm the last one to complain about new Tomb Kings models whatever shape they take, and as quite a fan of mummies, too, but I'm not sure there is much sense in this particular addition and hope GW sees it the same way and prioritizes something more useful if we have to put up with such a limited number of new plastic models.
lord_blackfang wrote: If they don't replace the ancient skellies (cavalry included) it's gonna be dead on arrival
Maybe I'm alone in this, but I'm disappointed they didn't replace the Men at Arms, Bowmen and Knights of the Realm kit. They're almost 20 years old and come from the period when GW models had horrible proportions. I say that as someone who bought a whole bunch of them back when they first released.
That said, I'm also not a huge fan of the new foot knights, they're just way too over detailed for Knights of the Realm for my liking. The level of detail is more along the lines of Questing if not Grail Knights.
I guess in the end I would have preferred a return to the 5th edition style of Bretonnians, back when the Perry twins made some really awesome looking metals.
I actually think that the peasants and knights of the realm don't really need a revamp. I will touch first the grail knights. They don't feel at all special (I had to go to other brands to find something cool enough to make them feel elite).
For the foot knights, I just think they need a different paint job, because looking at them more in detail, they don't really have anything fancy going on except for the helmet and the champion.
Horse sprue including rider legs - can be boxed with infantry to make cavalry, can be boxed with chariots to keep new horses consistent
That would be more than brets got already, the only chance is if they don't treat them equally.
The rational move would be to allocate resources based on need rather than equality. The peasant archers are a fine kit, the Bret’s men-at-arms kit is still great.
Ignispacium wrote: I'm curious as to what the Wood Elves are going to get in terms of new plastic. Most of their line got an update shortly before WFB was ended.
Wardancers are an obvious choice, but the metal ones have already been shown in an article so I'm not sure about that.
My dream option would be a lord on a forest dragon, but that seems much more like a Forgeworld project.
Aren't the Glade Guard absolutely ancient? With those horrible cloaks that feel tacked on rather than part of the model.
I seem to recall painting up some Glade Guard and posting the pics on the official GW forum, so they must be pretty old
@Mr Morden I don’t know if they mentioned it. I’m just going off the look of the models.
I think Inquisitor Gideon’s was putting forward the idea that there will be some folks complaining about the historical inaccuracy of female knights (mounted or otherwise) in an army so closely inspired by the notably patriarchal medieval French.
Apart from the flying horses, of course. Which they totally had. ?
Hence the discussion about that model and whether or not it is meant to give off female warrior vibes without it looking like something out of mobile game Ad from Facebook.
On the other hand, he could just trying to be start an argument about the IRL existence of medieval female knights. Does being knighted because you borrowed some mail and were dropping rocks off the city wall really count? Does Joan of Arc count if she was on the battle but didn’t kill anyone, or at least have a go? That sort of thing.
In which case, Inquisitior Gideon is a bit of a cad and possibly bounder. I don’t know them, so will presume innocence. ?
Ignispacium wrote: I'm curious as to what the Wood Elves are going to get in terms of new plastic. Most of their line got an update shortly before WFB was ended.
Wardancers are an obvious choice, but the metal ones have already been shown in an article so I'm not sure about that.
My dream option would be a lord on a forest dragon, but that seems much more like a Forgeworld project.
Aren't the Glade Guard absolutely ancient? With those horrible cloaks that feel tacked on rather than part of the model.
I seem to recall painting up some Glade Guard and posting the pics on the official GW forum, so they must be pretty old
Glade Guard need! an update!
The Forrest dragon with the sisters is cool. If they update it they need to do it in the same spirit.
Also, it was probably one of the only monsters that payed for itself at end of fantasy so well.
Was a pain for basically anything if it made a flank charge.
Wood elves are ok with glade guard update and some heroes honestly, Alter/Beast kindred would be cool.
Also bows on all the elves other than the Alter Kindred, Don’t forget GW. The last book changed that for the first time in like 10+ years. It’s part of the faction. They ok Minis tho, so I forgive them.
Dryads look old now, would be nice getting an update but being trees keeps them fine when painted up.
The other stuff may just be out of the realm for this update, but glade guard updated is needed.
There horrible miniatures, and I won’t buy them again.
Ignispacium wrote: I'm curious as to what the Wood Elves are going to get in terms of new plastic. Most of their line got an update shortly before WFB was ended.
Wardancers are an obvious choice, but the metal ones have already been shown in an article so I'm not sure about that.
My dream option would be a lord on a forest dragon, but that seems much more like a Forgeworld project.
Aren't the Glade Guard absolutely ancient? With those horrible cloaks that feel tacked on rather than part of the model.
I seem to recall painting up some Glade Guard and posting the pics on the official GW forum, so they must be pretty old
Yeap, they are pretty ancient by todays standards.
I know what you mean about the WE cloaks. I'm currently building a few knights of the white wolf and they are the same, the cloaks just kind of tack on to the model. The plastic kits was obviously once the cheapest way to build huge armies, but the old metals are lovely sculpts in comparison. In fact, I'm having to almost carve detail back into the knights when cleaning up the horrendous mould lines.
Thats going to be the hardest sell for GW in this case. Its going to be very, very noticeable between the quality of the kits. Those old brett knights are very plain and will have thick mould lines, where as the new foot knights have a lot of detail and if the newer AoS kits are anything to go by, almost mould line free.
Sure, its a nice compromise by having the new parts fit the old models to allow us to convert the older models into something more modern looking. But they are going to be charging 2024 prices, for 20+ year old minis that also need a 2nd set of minis to bring inline with the new style of models.
You think that GW would have spent more money in bringing the entire game up to modern standards before release.
I'm still just going to treat this as the biggest MTO run on fantasy models they have done and use it as an excuse to stock up on things I haven't yet paid a fortune for. I really don't see how they can sell this as wargame made for more experienced gamers in the modern market.
I mean the good news is that we will get big boxes of infantry. Presumably about the same as HH prices.
"These regiments and other future regiments are returning in boxes that contain enough plastic miniatures to make a full regiment, not just a rank or two. With the Peasant Bowmen box, you’ll be able to build a unit of 32 archers, complete with a command group and Defensive Stakes. So dreams of creating massive armies of ranked-up troops will be well within your grasp."
Olthannon wrote: I mean the good news is that we will get big boxes of infantry. Presumably about the same as HH prices.
"These regiments and other future regiments are returning in boxes that contain enough plastic miniatures to make a full regiment, not just a rank or two. With the Peasant Bowmen box, you’ll be able to build a unit of 32 archers, complete with a command group and Defensive Stakes. So dreams of creating massive armies of ranked-up troops will be well within your grasp."
Its a strange choice, seeing as they have shown units of 18 but selling in 32s. I can see the return of unit fillers being a popular money saving tactic again this edition.
If they are the same cost of the HH sets (or less) then that wouldn't be so bad.
frankelee wrote: I guess it probably shouldn't be surprising the Kislev ice guard might be scrapped. It was very not-Warhammer-Fantasy-Battles.
They weren't something pulled out of nowhere that was a sudden change for how Kislev was depicted.
Ice witches wielding magical frost weapons and having an import place in Kislev society is perfectly fitting with their lore.
Sorry guise, but I don't know much about the retcon lore post 6th edition. It very well can be that it fit WFB in 2015, or WFB in 2024, either way it's a very late and significant tonal change from what the game was. And I remember a lot of people on the internet saying it came across as kind of weird and not very Warhammer. And of course those types of Kislev troops weren't models at any point right up through the End Times. But if GeeDubs is hoping to sell the game to middle aged guys with too much disposable income then it still wouldn't surprise me if they at least didn't prioritize stuff that those of us who played in the 90s and 2000s don't recognize as being legitimately within the tone and feel of the setting.
No, it absolutely is not.
4th edition Warhammer Armies: The empire, released in 1993 (...or 1996? Found both dates), has Kislev included but is very brief. They are depicted as more of a grounded human faction at this stage, but it's very, very brief; it basically amounts to a small amount of lore of pretty much "There's a place called Kislev" and 3-4 units. Winged Lancers, Katarin etc. Mentions Kislev is ruled by warrior-sorcerers with their magic based on the land itself and Frost/ice focused. Magic Ice Hawks, Ice Bridge that can carry units, Fearfrost as a magic frost sword etc. Art of Boris Usra riding a bear is shown, albeit it seems he isn't actually talked about at all so appears to not be a character...just a guy riding a bear. Also unclear if this is meant to be the same as Boris Ursus a few years later.
The 1996 Citadel Journal list had fantastical elements, including Bear mounts for heroes, Bear Cavalry, packs of bears and Baba Yaga. Common later lore things like their bear god, bears being sacred etc are mentioned here as similar to later lore but i'm unsure what was and wasn't already established in more "official" sources before this article, so while it's debatable as to how canonical the stuff here is (Citadel Journal is an official publication, but people could submit stuff), some of the things included here did also appear in definitely more official sources - I'm just unsure when specifically some of that first appeared and what is and isn't already established for them by the time this article was written.
Their Warmaster army list in 2002, had packs of tamed bears and bear mounts and a spell to transform into a giant bear (and mentions they build temples in which they keep pits full of bears to send out to war). That old art of Boris Ursa on a bear appears again.
The Ambassador series, Written by Graham Mcneill in 2003/2004, supposedly had those mystical fantasy elements included - Katarina apparently summons spirits of Kislev warriors in bodies of ice, for example. Bokha palace also has parts entire sections made of ice.
Their 6th edition army in 2003 did not have much in the way of that side of things, mostly just Boris Ursus as the most out-there in terms of units, albeit the book did depict conversions of both a hero on giant bear and bear cavalry. Their connection to various spirits are mentioned but its unclear as to if they book considers them as real or not. It mentions the religion involving bears with a God of Bears who takes the form of a bear - so despite the lack of bear units, bears are still said to be a very important thing to Kislev overall. Magical lore for different Gods are mentioned. The palace having sections made of ice are mentioned by the book too.
The Warhammer RPG "Realm of the Ice Queen" expansion released in 2007 once again follows the fantasy Kislev side and is the most comprehensive depiction of Kislev out of the lot - because its an RPG there's a lot of stuff. The various spirits mentioned previously are defined more specifically, there's magical creatures like Frostfiends and Firebirds, Hag Witches (like Baba Yaga was) are there, the map of the city of Kislev shows Bokha palace with the ice structure parts, Katarina has the enchanted Ice Palace, it details the importance of the Ice Witches, all the ice magic like ice weapons, the other cults/gods appear again with magic for them etc.
A unit of Ice Witches wielding magical weapons is perfectly in line with how Kislev lore already was. Those specific elements (Magical Frost Witches with Magical Ice weapons) were definitely already a thing in 2007 at the very least and potentially before (as I didn't do a huge indepth look into it), as the foundations were definitely there before then.
You being unaware of Kislev lore does not make it a retcon.
lord_blackfang wrote: Now I'm actually excited to see what they do for my beloved Tomb Kings.
I'm guessing the mysterious character that we've been hearing rumors about, and maybe the missing Hierotitan model.
Unlike Bretonia, the Tomb Kings got an 8th Edition update. And I'm guessing that the new Bret models are stuff that was more or less "just waiting for a new Army Book release" to go out on sale.
I imagine that the core skeletons will be replaced eventually (and finally get some proper khopeshes), but I'm guessing that they're still a ways off.
over there being women foot knights.
