I see a fair number of threads and posts about 40k vs Fantasy and often enough it gets brought up that 40k has giant, really awesome models for Apocalypse battles and the best Fantasy has to offer are outdated dragons and a steam tank. These big models sometimes have rules to go with them, sometimes don't, but nobody can deny that they are cool. I know there are older rules like the Emperor Dragon of Amazingness that the High Elves had for Legendary Battles, but nobody plays them any more.

With that premise, what kinds of legendary constructs or creatures would you want in Fantasy, and would you/your group be willing to make rules to support it until GW releases their own rule set?

Maybe a massive steam powered, land crushing tank for the Empire that can let forth volleys of cannon blasts? Maybe an over-sized drill bit-style machine for Dwarfs that could burrow and pop like the Tyranid Mawloc, burying and dicing the unit it popped under? Maybe you want the mother of all Hydras crushing enemies of the Druchii underfoot while bellowing five fire templates of S6 destruction, whose ancient flames cause successful ward saves to be rerolled!

These are creations that you would actually consider purchasing if a company (Forgeworld, for instance) made them. We don't need to flood the thread and potentially Proposed Rules forum with random things we wouldn't actually want on our table.

Obviously as you start expanding on your creations you will spill over into the Proposed Rules forum, but that's fine! More threads with more proposed legendary creatures for us to review, comment on and build as a community! Hurray for more WHFB Forum traffic!

We have a great list growing! I don't know if any of these could be considered in their finalized form, but if their authors prefer to indicate one as finished I will notate it here!

Dark Elves - Elder Hydra
Vampire Counts - Throne of The Damned & Corpse Golem
Dark Elves - Hydra of Ancient Times
Beastmen - Tergor, The Beast God
Unaffiliated - Dragon of Ancient Times
Orcs & Goblins - Goblin Launcha
Wood Elves - Ceolmund, Wisdom of the World, Father of the Forest
Dwarfs - Titan Battlesuit

Great idea, Kirbinator!

For Beastmen, I'd like something like just a huge Beast-God of sorts. Just a model almost twice the size of a giant, thats literally a gigantic Beast-Monster.

Thats not very creative...how about a Flying Beast-Prince. Like a daemon prince, but a beastman, with wings and all that jazz.

Hm, it much easier to come up with ideas for races than can actually build things...:/

Good stuff!

FW's already underway with bigger versions of the greater Daemons as well as the Marauder Shaggoth. I guess the Orcs could get their own shaggy as well. I like the Empire "Land Ironclad" take...could be a hoot. Woodies could get a redwood-sized Ent. Rackham made an amazing huge dragon for Confrontation back in the day...FW could make one for the High Elves. I'm at a loss for the Bretonians and Beastmen...

Related to this- the GW Bunker near me is hosting a "Legendary" event for Fantasy in 3 weeks' time... I asked the manager what he meant by that, and he said they'll be doing things similar to Apocalypse for 40k- i.e., you can field all of your Giants as one rare choice, but deploy them separately. Sounds sort of like what you're going for here!

I'd love to see some really gargantuan models... I've longed for a humongous dragon for some time, even placing a pre-order with Heresy for theirs (but abandoning it after it's still WIP after over a year). That would definitely be a model I'd be interested in... that, and a gigantic tree

RiTides wrote:Related to this- the GW Bunker near me is hosting a "Legendary" event for Fantasy in 3 weeks' time... I asked the manager what he meant by that, and he said they'll be doing things similar to Apocalypse for 40k- i.e., you can field all of your Giants as one rare choice, but deploy them separately. Sounds sort of like what you're going for here!

Sounds like a fun monster brawl! I'm kind of shooting for your next part, though!

RiTides wrote:I'd love to see some really gargantuan models... I've longed for a humongous dragon for some time, even placing a pre-order with Heresy for theirs (but abandoning it after it's still WIP after over a year). That would definitely be a model I'd be interested in... that, and a gigantic tree

A gargantuan ancient dragon, dwarfing the spindly High Elf Prince's favored pet! Any particular style you'd be shooting for? Just a generic dragon? I know you have those Wood Elves so a monstrous tree-thing forest entity would fit right in!

Responding to the others, I'd love for Orcs to get a Shaggoth. I'm not sure it would be awilling participant, but I'm not really up to par on my Shaggoth fluff knowledge.

Exactly... a dragon far beyond the normal size... and definitely Unridden, untameable...

I have moved on to wood elves, and so of course I'm partial to a monstrous tree . The redwood comment from Xyz is right on. Give it a gigantic, thick trunk... with a large mound for a base, with roots lashing out, to go along with a spread of branches. I would definitely buy this . For inspiration, there's the really low, but wide, trees in Africa, too... or the "tree of life" from Dragonball Z, if anyone knows what I'm talking about!

I think a massive Shaggoth would be awesome, too- but again, if it's that big I think it'd have to be like the dragon, and be unridden (an unwilling participant, as you say) but perhaps lead by hordes of goblins dragging a giant chain leading to a ring in its nose... I think we have plenty of mounted monsters, and it'd be neat to see some true "legendary level" beasts- untameable, gigantic, seemingly invincible to anything but another beast of the same scale.

RiTides wrote:Exactly... a dragon far beyond the normal size... and definitely Unridden, untameable...

I have moved on to wood elves, and so of course I'm partial to a monstrous tree . The redwood comment from Xyz is right on. Give it a gigantic, thick trunk... with a large mound for a base, with roots lashing out, to go along with a spread of branches. I would definitely buy this . For inspiration, there's the really low, but wide, trees in Africa, too... or the "tree of life" from Dragonball Z, if anyone knows what I'm talking about!

I think a massive Shaggoth would be awesome, too- but again, if it's that big I think it'd have to be like the dragon, and be unridden (an unwilling participant, as you say) but perhaps lead by hordes of goblins dragging a giant chain leading to a ring in its nose... I think we have plenty of mounted monsters, and it'd be neat to see some true "legendary level" beasts- untameable, gigantic, seemingly invincible to anything but another beast of the same scale.

The tree is called a baobab.

Also, I don't really like the idea of legendary super-creatures. They would not likely mesh well with the rest of the units, and be overpowered just like in 40k (for example, an army with an apoc unit would likely have a huge advantage over one without it). I think it should be more based around formations, and bonuses for those types of thing. Maybe even to a degree where fluffy lists are encouraged, getting bonuses that make the less-than-enticing units worthwhile.

An example might be hordes of skaven, or goblins, or something along those lines. Take x amount of units y strong and basically follow the idea of apoc formations (bonuses, special rules, etc).

RiTides wrote:

I have moved on to wood elves, and so of course I'm partial to a monstrous tree . The redwood comment from Xyz is right on. Give it a gigantic, thick trunk... with a large mound for a base, with roots lashing out, to go along with a spread of branches. I would definitely buy this . For inspiration, there's the really low, but wide, trees in Africa, too... or the "tree of life" from Dragonball Z, if anyone knows what I'm talking about!

Heh...load the thing up with a load of archers like some Swiss Family Robinson porcupine hybrid. It doesn't neccessarily need to fight, per se...just strut about and make a cloud of arrows a turn...

ssREV wrote:I don't really like the idea of legendary super-creatures. They would not likely mesh well with the rest of the units, and be overpowered just like in 40k (for example, an army with an apoc unit would likely have a huge advantage over one without it). I think it should be more based around formations, and bonuses for those types of thing. Maybe even to a degree where fluffy lists are encouraged, getting bonuses that make the less-than-enticing units worthwhile.

An example might be hordes of skaven, or goblins, or something along those lines. Take x amount of units y strong and basically follow the idea of apoc formations (bonuses, special rules, etc).

Current Apoc models are far from overpowered in many cases. A Reaver Titan goes down easy when a 10-man unit or two of Eldar Fire Dragons show up and unload melta-death. It really isn't all that difficult to do since a Wave Serpent can move flat out 36" with the Star Engine upgrade and that unit is far, far cheaper than a Reaver or a Stompa. I understand your position though, so anyone making rules for these things would definitely require balance to be considered.

Formations would be pretty darn cool, but I'm not sure if your examples of units are particularly considered "less-than-enticing". People playing Skaven and Goblins already do bring more blocked infantry than most armies, but formation or movement bonuses for RnF reaching a certain massive size would be nice. Could even have extra distance on overrun due to the weight of numbers barreling them forward.

RiTides wrote:I think we have plenty of mounted monsters, and it'd be neat to see some true "legendary level" beasts- untameable, gigantic, seemingly invincible to anything but another beast of the same scale.

That would be supremely awesome, but only for certain armies I think. High Elves have too much of a bond with dragonkin to have an untamed beast ravaging about in a battle for the capital. Dark Elves, on the other hand, specialize in finding a huge, barely controlled beast and pointing it in the right direction (Hydra, Manticore).

Having a gigantic mutant creature just as likely to rip its own masters a new one fits right up the ally of Skaven. Imagine some Moulder masters on the HPA projects decided to take it a few steps further, even sacrificing some of their own to the project in order to give it a semblance of intelligence! I don't think I'd personally purchase a massive mutant rat creation and someone would probably be better served by making a suitably-sized HPA for the current Skaven players!

So far on the list of cool things we want on the table: Dragon of Doom, Tree-thing of Hugeness, Mega Beastlord creature, massive Shaggoth, and my own Ancient Hydra (complete with battle scars long since regenerated, maybe a burned off head stump).

I think ssREV has an excellent idea. I believe some of the attraction for me to a legendary battle is the sheer amount of troops that would be involved. I still think legendary constructs and creatures can have a role, but also believe they should not take over the entire battle. Maybe it could be a group of monsters like RiTides mentioned, like a flight of dragons, a coven of witches, or another group of mighty monsters making mayhem for the weak. I just don't want it to a fight between one giant monster against one giant tank or other monster. Don't get me wrong I like monsters as much as the next guy, I just don't want the rest of the army to be there just for fodder. Ahhh who am I kidding. The other part of the attraction to "legendary" battles is the epic battle between the nastiest monster and most heroic character.

My ideas for legendary creatures would be Godzilla (the cool one, not the giant dinosaur) or Tiamat. How about a giant, regenerating bloodthirster with 4 arms and 2 heads. I like the idea of a giant drill for the dwarfs or a giant rock golem. The mother of all tanks for the empire is good too. Maybe a giant beholder or lichdragon.

Beats the hell out of me, I am just rambling now.

Some kind of huge construction for dwarves would be very cool... I'm thinking of the gigantic drill that appears at the end of "The Incredibles". Something the dwarves use to mine out passages in the bowels of mountains... and then turn on their enemies when they make a last stand in the mines.

Having a burned-off head stump on a massive hydra is a great idea! It would help show the age of the creature... and you're right about the high elves not permitting a savage dragon, that would be something more fitting for their darker brethren.

I would not be interested in a giant HPA. I can't imagine the look on my wife's face if I were to buy one of those . Disgusting! But very in-character for skaven, of course!

There's a thread in News & Rumor talking about the possibility of forgeworld doing something like this here. Is that what inspired this, Kirbinator? Anything we could do to nudge them (or another company) into action about actually making some things for fantasy would be awesome...

RiTides wrote:There's a thread in News & Rumor talking about the possibility of forgeworld doing something like this here. Is that what inspired this, Kirbinator? Anything we could do to nudge them (or another company) into action about actually making some things for fantasy would be awesome...

Actually, I completely overlooked that thread! It's a good read, though, and glad Forgeworld is getting into the action! I'm all for nudging any company to start making Fantasy goodies, even if they aren't super-huge, just having something new and different is always nice to me! I think many companies could do such things, but they are unsure of the market for it since we're pretty niche already.

A good idea for a company thinking of doing this, would be to start with a model that could be used for multiple armies, depending on what head/limb/etc were used.

The "Mega Beastlord creature" idea above would be good for this, since you could use it for Beastmen, WoC, and even convert for other uses (perhaps O&G... basically, any army that can currently take a giant).

The tree is a little more mono-army in scope, but I'd love them forever for it

How about a huge sentient forest for the woodies?

6-12inches by 3-6inches? m2? counts as a forest and 20 dryads?

(Just throwing ideas around)

That's kind of cool. I think there's some scope for massive engines of war- like in the latest siege of Middenheim, the defenders had a massive, massive cannon that needed a giant to load it.

Frankly, I think most of the special characters should only be showing up in legendary battles. Malekith? The Dwarf High King? The Emperor? Are they really going to take the field for an engagement supported by 4 or 5 blocks of their own troops?

RZ

Nah

would prefer none. It just keeps upping the ante
Was even a tad disappointed to see the rat exercise wheel for the skaven.

Steam tanks and the like don't fit in a fantasy world imho. Leave it for steampunk

Apart from which I couldn't afford them, break out the rebecs and violas

Having said that what about Humbaba, Lord of the Beasts based on the giant in the Gilgamesh story. Who also pops up in the Athurian Owein story. Might do for a mightly beast lord/god. He bangs the earth with his mighty club and all the beasts appear and bow before him iirc

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:would prefer none. It just keeps upping the ante
Was even a tad disappointed to see the rat exercise wheel for the skaven.

Steam tanks and the like don't fit in a fantasy world imho. Leave it for steampunk

While I can certainly respect that it is your opinion, I'm not quite sure I follow it. The Warhammer Fantasy world is not set in Arthurian Early Medieval lore, though similar in many regards. It is a world of ingenuity and technology from its respective armies and armies such as Skaven, Dwarfs and the Empire have been long known for having "advanced" technologies such as war machines and vehicles. Dwarves have personal helicopters for instance!

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Having said that what about Humbaba, Lord of the Beasts based on the giant in the Gilgamesh story. Who also pops up in the Athurian Owein story. Might do for a mightly beast lord/god. He bangs the earth with his mighty club and all the beasts appear and bow before him iirc

Seems to be quite a calling for a beast lord according to this thread!

So with these creatures we've devised, would we be open to actually making rules for them until GW makes their own? I think I'll get started on my Ancient Hydra today and post something over in the Proposed Rules areas. Who knows, maybe GW will take notice and ste-... be inspired by our ideas.

Dwarves should get some kind of giant walking robot. About dreadnought sized, maybe a bit larger. I believe CD already have something similar so it isn't much of a stretch.
Warriors of chaos should get a giant chaos alter pulled by slaves.

Oh and I almost forgot Rhinox cavalry and a mamoth are musts for ogres.

While I can certainly respect that it is your opinion, I'm not quite sure I follow it. The Warhammer Fantasy world is not set in Arthurian Early Medieval lore, though similar in many regards. It is a world of ingenuity and technology from its respective armies and armies such as Skaven, Dwarfs and the Empire have been long known for having "advanced" technologies such as war machines and vehicles. Dwarves have personal helicopters for instance!

I acknowledge that the problem is wholly due to my preconceptions of what fantasy entails largely having been formed by reading by Mallory, Tolkein and Beowulf
The world of Empire is more of a Renaissance design, and therefore Da Vinciesque contraptions are appropriate . But Dwarves with gyrocopters is in my non post modern mind wholly idyosyncratic Even Dwarves with guns came as a bit of a surprise!

But given the Dwarvish mind in WHFB I guess it is understandable

ps
one thing I would like to see with such contraptions is a test roll - which may already be part of the rules?
So that it could fall apart/blows up due to too much steam pressure on a 1
miss a turn due to the operator needing to hit it with a hammer to get it started again on a 2

this sort of thing adds a lot of fun imho

RiTides wrote:Related to this- the GW Bunker near me is hosting a "Legendary" event for Fantasy in 3 weeks' time... I asked the manager what he meant by that, and he said they'll be doing things similar to Apocalypse for 40k- i.e., you can field all of your Giants as one rare choice, but deploy them separately. Sounds sort of like what you're going for here!

What he means is that they're probably using the Legendary Battles Rules published in WD(and on their website) that was meant to be "Fantasy Apocalypse". It allows you to bring a grouping of similar monsters or warmachines as a single entry in the Org chart. IE. 6 Cannons or Giants as a single Special/Rare slot respectively. It also has rules for allied contingents within an army as well as an allies matrix telling you which you could bring.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=cat210002&categoryId=500004§ion=&aId=6500003

Might wanna read up on the rules.

Posted an idea for "The Beast God"

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/287191.page#1455356

I got a Idea for a beastial dragon and ginormus treeman.

Thanks for the link, Platuan4th! I've saved it and will read through it more later... that was definitely what he was talking about.

I'm going to head over to the proposed rules section to see the "Beast God" and hopefully Anicent Hydra... and I might put up some rules for some kind of gigantic tree (with a catchy name). Feel free to post up first or add to it, sevend3f and nieto666- the more ideas the better

a Orc Seige Engine that is carried by Goblins. Take the Seige towerr that is used as scenery. make it 3 times the size, carried by goblins and covered in Orc Arrer Boyz, and Goblin Spear Chukkas.


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or how about a giant cannon that shoots Goblin Skirmishers. on a 4-5 they land on their feet on that turn on a 1 they get over shot on a 2-3 you roll scatter dice. if it rolls a hit they count as a single s6 hit on a single model. on a 6 they can charge on the same turn as they land and gain +1 to their strength due to the ridiculous amount of WAAAGH! they just experienced.

If I could field a massive leviathan in WFB, I would do so!

How about a Coatl, from the Lizardmen artwork?

How would you field a Leviathan please John?

I thought it was a very big sea monster.
A Behemoth perhaps?

Yes, a Leviathan has roots in sea monsters. For a Leviathan, I'd start with a Trygon, add a few sets of Gargoyle / Dragon wings, and extra claws. Probably extend the body / tail as well.

A Behemoth beast would also be fun, though there aren't as many good plastic whatnots of appropriate size to build from. At that rate, I'd probably be GSing a He-Man figure of some sort.

Rules-wise, I think I'd probably look at the FW Greater Daemons as a starting point, count-as Bloodthirster.

I just love the word "Leviathan". It's worth it just for that...

Hey, tree people! Post your ideas over in the proposed rules thread I've started for "Father of the Forest" (needs a name to go with the title).

Link

It's also a poll showing three models I'm considering... please give me your input and post any rules you've come up with for a gigantic tree!

Okay please bear with me for naming the Giant Tree
A while ago I worked with someone who created a sculpture in Chelmsley Wood. Mike Dames has written several books about the old Gods and places.
According to Michael, the name Chelmsley was derived from a local Saxon Forest God, a giant called Ceolmund. Nearby runs the River Cole and Coleshill. He may be a source of the Old King Cole of nursery rhyme.

Coll is a Celtic word for hazel- or wisdom
Mund latin meaning world
so you have the Wisdom of the World! Not bad for an huge venerable tree god

Apologies in advance if the idea is pants and my word play unbearable

I like it. One vote for Ceolmund "the Wisdom of the World"

Wow, that's great, Chibi! So you're saying that's actually what the name means (according to Mike Dames)? I really like that . I couldn't corroborate it (my search-fu might just be weak, since it's late) but it sounds perfect!

I'm going to edit the title of the proposed rule thread to match it

Sadly no :( hope that is not too disappointing

It was word play as I said but it seems to fit very nicely.
have no idea what the Saxon name Ceolmund actually means as the internet came up empty.

Cannot find anything to back up Michael Dames's theory of a Saxon Deity either, which is strange, as he was an absolute mine of information about local mythologies. He was very interested in the connenctions between place and mythological entities.

Hope that the poetic licence will suffice to prove satisfactory.

Lizardmen get the best source for Legendary creatures: DINOSAURS!!!

Imagine Skinks riding an Allosaurus/Tyranosaurus with Giant Blowpipes all over it.

Even better is the idea of using Amphicoelias as siege tower/monstrous creature/bolt thrower-giant blowpipe-Engine of the Gods hauler/Character mount; AT THE SAME TIME!

Also a viable one would be Relic Priests, basically Lord Kroak-lite, but fielded in units with Temple Guards. They get some mention in the army book but the only one available is Kroak.

Stegadons in herds, Snakemen, Kroxigor hauled bolt-throwers; able to move and shoot with the crew being tough if somewhat stupid. Heck an intelligent Kroxigor as a Lord Choice character. Hell Kroxigor Carnosaur Cavalry!!!

Maybe a hovering/walking temple of doom thingy... Or a giant statue of one of the Old Ones powered by magic, forced to drain powerdice every turn from the player of from an enemy wizard its captured/killed or else it takes wounds on a D6 roll of 4+. Kinda like that lion-head thingy from the Coatl in Rise of Legends.

JohnHwangDD wrote:If I could field a massive leviathan in WFB, I would do so!

Aren't the Black Arks built on Leviathan Sea Dragons or am I thinking of a different Man-o-War unit?

@Plat, they are, however, MoW isn't 28mm...

Dragon of Ancient times now posted in Proposed rules section:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/287521.page

Chibi, that's what I thought, and it's great

Going to check out the Ancient Dragon now!

Who's going to do the Anceint Hydra?? Plus the Tomb Kings could use something. Maybe a Sphinx?

hmmm a sphinx would be cool.

what could be done for Skaven and VC?

VC I was thinking of the Harbringer of Death. Some vamps are so powerful they can turn themselves into the incarnate of death, maybe ive been playing too much of Dante's Inferno but it would work out hard. As for Skaven how about the Horned God.

for VC you could convert the C'tan with the Scythe.

Ogre Kingdoms... not sure what to do. can't get any wheels turning with them.

Empire: Flying Castle

The Horned God is more Lord of the Beasts? Pan and all that
maybe I am thinking too strictly mythologically

If Skaven were mice would their boss be the Big Cheese?




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C34r
Laputa Castle in the Sky

or a Walking Castle?

Whats the minmum amount of points for say legendary battles?? I think 4000 pts would be good for minimum points. At least that way you could have other things besides your big nasty.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:The Horned God is more Lord of the Beasts? Pan and all that
maybe I am thinking too strictly mythologically

If Skaven were mice would their boss be the Big Cheese?




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C34r
Laputa Castle in the Sky

or a Walking Castle?

either would be cool. would have to come up with stats though. would stil be cool

@nieto666 I think the 5k mark that Apoc follows wouldn't be too bad.

beg pardon- displaying gross ignorance

The Skaven indeed worship the Horned Rat

Hydra of Ancient times posted, yes I have nothing better to do tonight.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/287581.page

No, not the Horned Rat God, he is the equivalent of a Chaos God.

The Beast God is more of a Demi-God, like Archaeon.

@nieto: Interesting stuff, though it'd help if you ran spell check...

There's that picture in the BRB (I forgot the page number) with the giant shrine on wheels being pulled by hundreds of flagellants and they're committing mass hangings by jumping off it.

That thing.

Spell check didnt know that was a option. Funny thing is I'm a minor in english, scary huh.

Neat thread, a friend of mine pointed it out to me since I play Ogres he thought I could add my $.02.

I've always wanted to know more about the Sky Giants talked about in the OK book. Without my book right in front of me I seem to remember they were so massive that even giants seemed small to them. I can see maybe a single Slave Sky Giant or even a Sky Giant that joined in with the OK's in overthrowing his brothers.

That sounds like an excellent idea, BigJon! Ogres are perfect for a legendary model... they're big anyway, so something that would scare and dwarf even them. I'll have to browse through the store copy of the Ogre book next time I'm in there and see if I can find the passage you're talking about

Would the model just be an even bigger (much bigger) giant? Or does it look different in some way (does "sky" just refer to how tall they are, or something else?)

for the Sky Giant you put two shoes on the table to represent the model. or you get a small child to stand on the table ;P

New creature for the ranks; welcome the Elder Hydra!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/287606.page

For the Vampire Counts:

The Throne of the Damned, mounted upon a Corpse Golem.

The Throne of the Damned is a terrible artefact supposedly created by Nagash himself. An accursed bastard of Unholy obsidian and warpstone comprises the material of this Black Throne, adorned with Rubies that bleed dark blood; this powerful talisman allows an Ancient Vampire lord to raise the most obscene creations of the Undead: The Corpse Golem.

A Giant man-like figure, a twisted rotting parody of a man, with the majority of its skull open to allow the owner of the throne a view of the battlefield. The debased bodies of some hundreds of innocents form an unholy gestalt that is able hurl chunks of these corpses at enemies, crush many of them, before these ejected bodies arise and attack the living as zombies.

Basically its a giant with that missing head thing demons seem to have in the Constantine movie. It boosts all attempts to raise dead especially zombies, and gives the Vampire lord a nice safe place to sit and ride out the battle. It sacrifices wounds for a stone thrower attack that after being resolved raises a unit of zombies in the target's flank zone which counts as having charged the unit.

Link here http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/287648.page#1461718


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How about we get a list of these going on the OP just to make searching for them faster+Easier.

Ooh, "corpse golem"... excellent

These are great! I will update the original post with our proposed rules links later today. These smart phone things are cool, but multi-search, copy and paste mass links just isn't an easy thing without a proper computer!

Off-topic- you're on Dakka from a smart phone! And lego hasn't even optimized it yet!

<----- Envious

RiTides wrote:Off-topic- you're on Dakka from a smart phone! And lego hasn't even optimized it yet!

Yep, Moto Droid. Not to sound like a plug for them, but I really am enjoying this phone. I'm not sure how much optimization Lego has done but it's workable and fast enough to check a few posts. I wouldn't really scour the entire forum on it, though.

On topic, I have updated the original post with our current list!

OT again, I like my iPhone in a pinch, but a real computer is always better.

OT I agree with Boogeyman.

On topic: The ****saurus!! (Still looking for a good latin name that implies blood, screaming, dying.. etc) Basically its the Tyranosaurus equivalent in fantasy, so naturally it's poisonous and requires constant mind-control from a Slann to keep it from slaughtering the lizardmen forces trailing behind it.

The ****saurus, for Lizardmen

Also I think it would be a great idea if we agreed on a Universal Special Rule or two like whats' being discussed in the Dwarf Mecha thread. Just to help draw a line in the sand between what one could see in a regular WHFB and what actually deserves the descriptor "Legendary-". Immunity to Killing Blow seems like a good start, and being easier to shoot at, due to the massive size is another good part for the "Titan" rule.

EDIT: In case you can't tell I have a lot of free time on my hands LOL :p

Alright now for something a little more definitive:
Special Rules:

-Legendary: All units with the Legendary special rule are only available in the Legendary unit slots. The Legendary slot is allocated as 1 Legendary unit at 5,000 points and +1 Legendary at every 2,000 (+ or -, your input on this would be greatly appreciated) after that.

-Very Large Target: All ranged attacks gain a +2 to hit the model. LOS to the model is blocked only by Large Targets, or other Very Large Targets. Additionally the model is Immune to the effects of the Killing Blow special Rule, the creature/warmachine/etc is simply too big to be taken down in one shot. If a single attack were to remove multiple wounds and would result in removing its last wound. The attack instead reduces it to 1 wound. This rule does not apply if the attack was made when the model has only 1 wound left on the profile.

Titan - Tergor is immune to the Killing Blow USR. Wounds that would deal d6 are reduced to d3, wounds that would deal d3 are reduced to a single wound. Tergor is an extra large target, conferring a +2 bonus to ballistic skill modifiers and cannot be hidden behind a large target, but is offered hard cover.

We still need stuff for tomb kings, ogres, mortals of choas, Daemons of choas, Empire, High Elves, Bretonia, and Skaven. Hopefully I didnt leave anything out.

Thanks for updating the first post, Kirbinator . Makes it easy to keep track of them, now!

The "Unaffiliated" dragon gave me a chuckle. Sounds like a band still trying to get a record deal . And some good name suggestions are in order for the ****saurus. I keep thinking Eyclonus has typed out a swear word and had it filtered out

How about Nexplasmator

Nex = violent death, slaughter
plasmator = maker

for the saurus

Hmm Nexplasmatorsaurus seems suitably dinosaur like, albeit a bit of a mouthful. All start a poll once more submissions appear. Until then its the saurus

I was thinking about formations; special unit combos. I have an idea for a Lizardmen one, a few for Skaven, a couple for Empire and Beastmen.

So far all I could think of was:
Special Formation: A special group of units, maybe a collection of survivors of an older war, a brigade of volunteers for a special mission, the original members of a warband that has expanded and have grown tighter with each other as the influx of new blood has displaced their status with the warlord commanding the horde, or domestic mercenaries that may only operate alongside state-troops of the governing Ruler as part of an amnesty or an exclusive comission.

A Special Formation comprises of a single Formation Command unit (units) or Commanding Officer (Characters), this special command unit is accompanied by Formation Members, which can be of any unit type, excluding Lord choices (Lords are too big as leaders to be so directly sub-ordinate to other Lord Chars). Units within a formation may benefit from special rules, changes to their stat blocks or unique upgrades that are not available to the unit normally or require specific conditions to be available. During the Deployment phase all formation members must deploy close to either the Formation Command unit/officer or another unit that is a member of the formation and is close to the Command unit/officer.

Formations may for all intents and purposes choose to treat the Formation Command Officer, or the Champion of the formation Command unit, as the army general instead of the actual army general.

Additionally if the Formation Command unit/officer breaks, the units that are also part of this formation must take a break test immediately and will be required to take a break test until the formation command rallies or dies. If the Formation command is killed then the members must immediately take a break test after seeing their leader fall. Members of a formation whose Command has died or fled the table may test using the Army General's Ld to avoid fleeing the battle, if successful they may continue to fight on as normal whilst retaining any bonuses for being formation members.

Formations must have a designated Standard to rally around, if the Formation Command is a unit that may take a Standard, then this standard will be the Standard of the Formation. If the Formation command is a Character then the formation Standard is either the Standard of the unit they accompany, or it is carried by a separate Character that is part of the formation. To the Formation, this standard acts the same as a BSB. Formations may benefit from both the BSB and the Formation Standard bearer, however the re-roll bonus for break tests does not increase. Opponents may capture the Formation Standard as if it were a BSB.

Alright that's about it, other than that Special Formations should be lead by a unique unit or character like a normal special character but essentially lower-powered as they bring a bonus to multiple units, they should not be able to solo regiments like the official special characters but they should be about equal to generic hero slot characters.

Hehe was not really thinking about the saurus on the end. You'd be dead before you could say it!

Actually, to borrow from the old joke, wouldn't people say "Fekk! He saw us!!!"

Hence it became the Fekkisaurus!

Dwarfs I think I'd rather see an uber cannon or stone thrower than a giant monster.

Apocalypse uses a massive template doesn't it? Maybe just design a grudge thrower with a crew of 10 and use that?

Something that would be cool for skaven is something like this:

I'll just describe it for now and leave you guys to figure it out.

Basically a mobile workshop that launches mini versions of the doomwheel down a ramp. So unless you destroyed it quick you'd have loads of these things about.

Being more hastily built than usual, they'd be more erratic and more unreliable... But then you'd have a lot more of them and they could possibly move faster.

Any thoughts on the formation idea?

I've ripped a few things from the 40k Apoc idea but part of it feels like an army within an army, but on the other hand this kind of concept is about having a unique army within an army.

I'll post my first 2 in the Proposed rules forum: Saurus Exile Nomads and the Empire's Convict Penance Brigade.

I haven't had time to read this link through and compare it to what you posted, but is there anything similar to here? (thanks to Platuan4th for posting it on the first page)

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=cat210002&categoryId=500004§ion=&aId=6500003

If this works, and it's already put out by Games Workshop, it might be an easier way to go about it, since it's already accepted as "standard". If not, we could go in a totally different direction, or modify it.

Yeah I've read those... Jervis makes the Lizardmen and Orges into alliance whores... Its ok, but it lacks the detail that Apoc got... It also doesn't really add anything other than that its ok to break list restrictions at this points level.

The distinction between allied units and these is that allies are generic units from outside of your race, whereas these are sort of mundane units that have adapted, or taken a prestige class in their roles; things that you'd see in larger battles and such.

The Apoc rules for 40k explains them better essentially, albeit it produces some which are just bizarre like 2 Whirlwinds and a Land Speeder?

Another random idea for the orcs and goblins (that I would buy); a repeater doom diver launcher. D6 per shooting phase.

Massed Battery rule in the Legendary Battles PDF has that, though it is a Jervis Johnson Job so consider washing your hands and then cutting them off and cauterising the wounds.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tomb Kings anyone?

Alright Giant Mummified Sandworm that swallows units whole and converts them into skeletons under the Liche's control by grinding the bone with compacted sand to make Skeleton Warrios/Archers. The thing can do that tyranid mawloc thing and keep burrowing, surfacing and slaughtering and then diving back into the sand.

This is just an idea, I'm too tired to write anything now but I'm sure one of you guys can do it well.

A Thunderlizard for Lizardmen would be awesome. I also think that Eyclonus' idea is pretty sick too.

WoC could have so kind of super Shaggoth the size of a mountain or something.

plusARGON wrote:WoC could have so kind of super Shaggoth the size of a mountain or something.

My only concern with this would be Kholek already being hailed as the biggest and baddest of the Shaggoths as far as the fluff is concerned.

Eyclonus- on the chart, it also allows wood elves to ally with tomb kings, but forbids tomb kings to ally with wood elves . Not the most air-tight of rules, certainly!

What do expect from Jervis? He can't write a strategic wargame ruleset these days. Sure he did the DE codex amazingly well and has kept Bloodbowl, Mordheim and Necromunda alive when the rest of GW has ignored them but everything he's written in fantasy or 40k in the last 5-6 years is horrible. Take the BA filler codex, thats' horrible, its worse than the DA codex made at the end of the previous edition, it has 1 good unit, the Death Company, and everything else was overpriced and underpowered.

This is just another example... Re-reading I'm seeing the Lizardmen ally with CHAOS of all things. You know, the one faction that the Slann consider to be the prime threat to the Old One's plans.

Eyclonus wrote:What do expect from Jervis? He can't write a strategic wargame ruleset these days.

You mean, like Epic 40k and BFG? Games which still hold strong strategic play value today?

Or you mean something laden with the Speshul Roolz that gamers crave?

From what I know, most of the Epic players I met prefer the 2nd edition rules.

Not sure about BFG, don't know any players.

That's too bad. BFG is a very good game. Very smooth, very clean.

I have craved playing BFG for so long... but I never found enough of a player base to get into it.

The Legendary rules could be very good, I just thought the mistake on the chart was funny, since the first thing I looked for was who wood elves could ally with... and then realized that tomb kings couldn't ally back

Kirbinator wrote:

plusARGON wrote:WoC could have so kind of super Shaggoth the size of a mountain or something.

My only concern with this would be Kholek already being hailed as the biggest and baddest of the Shaggoths as far as the fluff is concerned.

That's very true... I didn't think about that. The WoC do have the FG Mammoth, though!
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer/Warhammer_Monsters/CHAOS-WAR-MAMMOTH.html
There use to be some temp rules for it, too. I didn't look very hard for them.

RiTides wrote:I have craved playing BFG for so long... but I never found enough of a player base to get into it.

BFG is (was) cheap enough that you can have a main fleet and "starter" fleets for all of the remaining main book forces, and not spend too much money. If you supply everything to kick things off, often times, others will jump in.

Speaking of which; JohnHwangDD do you still have the old rules for the DoW Regiments of Renown?

Are you talking about the 5E Army Book, or the 6E WD/Warhammer Chronicles?

I think you can get the WD files if you just Google them...

The WD ones are the most detailed and compatible I'm guessing. Just thinking of adding them into this great project. They've all got some odd peculiarities that made them fun and unique.

Hey if we get enough entries how about we collate them into a pdf or something?

That's a good idea, Eyclonus... although ideally, we'd get some playtesting in of each first.

Speaking of which, I've got a model on the way for Ceolmund now... but I've got to find a non-GW store (and opponent) to try him out on!! Also need to get those bases...

Oh definitely, these things are so big though its going to take a while.

Interesting idea Kirbinator-I've got some rules for a Lizardmen Thunder lizard here.


Oh yeah, and i agree-need more fantasy traffic!

After playtesting you guys should really send this to the FW guys (or hand it to them). Unlike the GW studio post box, which is conviniently located right above the recycling bin... The FW guys would definitey appreciate this. They more or less asked indirectly for what people wanted last year, and I suspect we will see a fair bit of it in the not too distant future.

For the sake of actually getting things completed, I think it would be better to say no more than 3 entries per army for the first pdf.

I'm not saying we need to try and do all of these, but imo it would be better to have some variety than just do a lot for a few armies.

My count so far of developed rules:

High Elves/ unaffiliated: Dragon of Ancient times
High Elves (special formation): ?

Dark Elves: Elder Hydra
Dark Elves: Hydra of the Ancient Times
Dark Elves (special formation): ?

Orcs and Goblins: Goblin Launcha
Orcs and Goblins (special formation): ?

Beastmen: Tergor the Beast Lord
Beastmen (special formation): ?

Empire: ?
Empire (special formation): Convict Penance Brigade

Ogre Kingdoms: Grankrul/ Grungrul
Ogre Kingdoms (special formation): ?

Chaos Dwarfs: Baragronti the Unstoppable
Chaos Dwarfs (special formation): ?

Lizardmen: Ecyclonasaurus
Lizardmen (special Formation): Saurus Nomads
Lizardmen: Thunder Lizard

Dwarfs: Titan Battlesuit
Dwarfs (special formation): ?

Vampire Counts: Throne of the Damned/ Corpse Golem
Vampire Counts (special formation): ?

Wood Elves: Ceolmund, Wisdom of the World, Father of the Forest
Wood Elves (special formation): ?

Tomb Kings: ?
Tomb Kings (special formation):

Daemons of Chaos: ?
Daemons of Chaos (special formation): ?

Warriors of Chaos: ?
Warriors of Chaos (special formation): ?

Bretonnians: ?
Bretonnians (special formation): ?

Skaven: ?
Skaven (special formation): ?

Dogs of War:
- Clockwork Giant de Leonardo

A WFB Titan, armed with a variety of scientific wonders!

Brettonians:

Grail High Altar. Pavilion of the Grail
could be a procession carrying the altar

Induces paralysis in the enemy/Smiting of the Blood Lance
Healing of the slain warrior
Calling of the White Stag/unicorn - magic charge by the mythical beastie

erm over to you guys wot knows about stats an' stuff (ie HELP!)

The candle hol... er, Ceolmund, arrives Tuesday . Already got the bases! I'm pumped

Updating original post with all creations in the proposed rules area! If I miss someone's, let me know!

Kirbinator wrote:Updating original post with all creations in the proposed rules area! If I miss someone's, let me know!

I'm offended(not really)! You forgot Klawmunkast's Rat Tank!

Platuan4th wrote:I'm offended(not really)! You forgot Klawmunkast's Rat Tank!

I didn't forget! I just finally got around to writing my own rules for Syl-Iriah, Spirit of the Woods - Legendary Version and neglected updating the original post like I intended to!

Kirbinator wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:I'm offended(not really)! You forgot Klawmunkast's Rat Tank!

I didn't forget! I just finally got around to writing my own rules for Syl-Iriah, Spirit of the Woods - Legendary Version and neglected updating the original post like I intended to!

I've got an idea for Skaven but I dont know how it works

Its basically Clan Skryre/Moulder making a giant Rat made out of flesh and warpstone.
Its got Two giant warp-fire throwers on its shoulders and a two blades made entirely from warpstone.
The name for this monstrous being is the Warpstone Golem
I cant think of anything else at the moment, if you want me to I'll work on the stats for it