I remember back when Specialist Games was allowed to actually support their products with living rulebooks and the like, they made an experimental Necron force. Epic Necrons never got any minis, but they did get paper templates you could use to simulate them.

I can't remember exactly what they had, but I don't recall too many monstrous creatures in the list. I recall something that was like a monolith light (same weapons, no teleportation ability) of course the pylon, and a superweapon that was basically a small star contained in a necrodermis sheath that they don't so much fire as they do open the door and let the energies within spray out.

I believe you are refering to the Crypt Stalker.

Concerning info on it? That's all, I cannot recollect there ever being more.

Wow

JOHIRA wrote:I remember back when Specialist Games was allowed to actually support their products with living rulebooks and the like, they made an experimental Necron force. Epic Necrons never got any minis, but they did get paper templates you could use to simulate them.

I can't remember exactly what they had, but I don't recall too many monstrous creatures in the list. I recall something that was like a monolith light (same weapons, no teleportation ability) of course the pylon, and a superweapon that was basically a small star contained in a necrodermis sheath that they don't so much fire as they do open the door and let the energies within spray out.

The light Monolith you're refering to is called the Obolesk I think. The small star was either the Sepulchar or the ...Star Cannon I think it may have been called. Either or, both were incredibly powerful versions of the Particle Whip.

Edit: Large Particle Whip was the Lightning Arc. And the Star Pulse Generator was the other name.

Just wondering what would be better necrons or KCSM

ZhufortheImpaler wrote:Just wondering what would be better necrons or KCSM

KCSM? like only Khorne?

I don't think it matters really what codex you're talking about though, all are better then Necrons in game currently.

Azure wrote:

ZhufortheImpaler wrote:Just wondering what would be better necrons or KCSM

KCSM? like only Khorne?

I don't think it matters really what codex you're talking about though, all are better then Necrons in game currently.

Yep, I meant khorne. Well I was kinda talking about when the new books come out for each... Just guessing the future I mean

ZhufortheImpaler wrote:

Azure wrote:

ZhufortheImpaler wrote:Just wondering what would be better necrons or KCSM

KCSM? like only Khorne?

I don't think it matters really what codex you're talking about though, all are better then Necrons in game currently.

Yep, I meant khorne. Well I was kinda talking about when the new books come out for each... Just guessing the future I mean

Ah, for the future then it seems like Necrons will be on top again, since each new codex has gotten better and better. That and Necrons will be 5th, CSM will be 4th. Edition.

Azure wrote:

JOHIRA wrote:I remember back when Specialist Games was allowed to actually support their products with living rulebooks and the like, they made an experimental Necron force. Epic Necrons never got any minis, but they did get paper templates you could use to simulate them.

I can't remember exactly what they had, but I don't recall too many monstrous creatures in the list. I recall something that was like a monolith light (same weapons, no teleportation ability) of course the pylon, and a superweapon that was basically a small star contained in a necrodermis sheath that they don't so much fire as they do open the door and let the energies within spray out.

The light Monolith you're refering to is called the Obolesk I think. The small star was either the Sepulchar or the ...Star Cannon I think it may have been called. Either or, both were incredibly powerful versions of the Particle Whip.

Edit: Large Particle Whip was the Lightning Arc. And the Star Pulse Generator was the other name.

no it's called the Aeonic Orb but you are right about the small tith's name.... crons actually have alot of titan based thing if you can find the old epic rules

Sounds like we have a lot of potential for new Toys in the codex.

I can't wait, the sooner we get, we hopefully get some more rumors to fuel the fire.

I just hope and pray that the new additions are given due time and care, unlike many of the new Tyranid choices, which felt rushed and fairly half done (the 'pyrovore' and 'venomthrope' for example and the still missing models for Tyrannofex and Tervigon).

The Necrons could be very well executed if good creative fluff and nice sculpts are done, if not, then they will suffer a relaunch like the half hearted Tyranid one instead of the success of the Dark Eldar.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:I just hope and pray that the new additions are given due time and care, unlike many of the new Tyranid choices, which felt rushed and fairly half done (the 'pyrovore' and 'venomthrope' for example and the still missing models for Tyrannofex and Tervigon).

The Necrons could be very well executed if good creative fluff and nice sculpts are done, if not, then they will suffer a relaunch like the half hearted Tyranid one instead of the success of the Dark Eldar.

Matt Ward wrote it, nuff said

Kroothawk wrote:

MeanGreenStompa wrote:I just hope and pray that the new additions are given due time and care, unlike many of the new Tyranid choices, which felt rushed and fairly half done (the 'pyrovore' and 'venomthrope' for example and the still missing models for Tyrannofex and Tervigon).

The Necrons could be very well executed if good creative fluff and nice sculpts are done, if not, then they will suffer a relaunch like the half hearted Tyranid one instead of the success of the Dark Eldar.

Matt Ward wrote it, nuff said

Please just quit playing then if you hate Matt Ward so much. This is an open invitation to all, if you people hate 40k because Matt Ward is a main developer then just quit. He's here he's had an effect on the game (positive and negative). That cannot be undone, get over it.

I like Star Wars.

I dislike the addition of Gungans from Phantom Menace.

Therefore, I should discontinue liking Star Wars?


If people don't like something it's our damn right to complain about it..

..just as its your right to make dumb statements inviting everyone disliking Tyranids or the new GK's to start quitting a game that isn't 100% controlled by Matt Ward.

And honestly, what sort of ego must you have to think you've got the clout to "invite" anyone who doesn't like something to quit a game?

And to make a blanket statement like that over the internet serves what purpose?

You either truly expect someone to quit because you told them to or you expect them to stop disliking something or at the very least you expect them to quit voicing their opinions because you dislike hearing their concerns..

Either way it's pretty lame.

I would like people to just stay on topic and quit hijacking every other thread to bitch about Matt Ward, there are dedicated threads for that.

I think what riling everyone up is that we're specifically here for news on the new Necron Codex, and with the release of the new stuff for the GK's people fear that a similar fate awaits our own beloved silver armies. Regardless though, I admit to hijacking the thread abit, I've heard no new rumors or stories concerning Necrons.

Fingers crossed that we get an awesome model like the Dreadknight.

Will disagree on the look of the Dreadknight but totally agree on some cool new models. Though, I'm hoping we get some almost building stuff, similar to the Monolith. Not so much large vehicles or walkers but rather small castles or fortresses that can move, albiet slowly.

Personally I love the Dreadknight model. But more impressive is it's size. And this Necromancer giant necron walker rumor sounds just like a Dreadknight's size.

yakface wrote:

Tony the guardsman wrote:FNP is awesome...just awesome...
No more of those stupid WBB rules!

Y'know, I used to be onboard with that concept, but then they went and gave Feel No Pain to Deathguard, Orks (Nobs w/Dok), Space Marines (Apothecary), Tyranids (through Catalyst), Blood Angels (Blood Chalice) and then the whole Dark Eldar army (Power From Pain) and now it almost seems like every army has Feel No Pain so I'm kind of dreading having another whole army walking around with Feel No Pain.

...excerpted...

This is why I actually stopped playing 40k altogether.
The rules were already 10x simpler than WHFB, now they're just running around like a kid with a marker giving out FNP to everything and their granny.

The game has come down to who's got a better armor save and who can bring more guns with low AP... very sad too because the game has such potential to be a game with real depth.... yeah right.

Right because the game wasn't like that in 3rd or 4th edition.

I know it's off topic, but whatever edition of 40k brought about the idea of Overwatch can go to hell.

NecronLord3 wrote:I would like people to just stay on topic and quit hijacking every other thread to bitch about Matt Ward, there are dedicated threads for that.

The author Mat Ward of the Necron Codex IS part of the topic. And if someone says that the handling of Necron background needs subtlety, it is fair to say that Mat Ward has proven not to be subtle when writing background, see GK and SM Codex which have rather juvenile super-glorification of the featured armies.

NecronLord3 wrote:Fingers crossed that we get an awesome model like the Dreadknight.

Not sure if serious...

So far as Mat Ward goes, I will enjoy having the stupidly powerful rules that the BA got. Maybe not the lore so much, though, it was very... simplified. That seems to the a recurring theme over the last year, really.

I love how barely anyone plays Necrons right now, and the ones that do will complain having to play new armies. And when then new Codex drops everyone will jump on them like they always do. Just seems funny to me.

NecronLord3 wrote:I would like people to just stay on topic and quit hijacking every other thread to bitch about Matt Ward, there are dedicated threads for that.

If M. Night Ward is writing the Necron codex, then discussing M Night Ward's codex writing ability (or lack thereof) is on topic as it pertains to the quality (or lack thereof) of the forthcoming codex.

And if his Necron Codex is as "good" as his Grey Knight codex, then I think we will start seeing Gav Thorpe "Miss Me Yet?" posters.

Mat Ward has shown a consistent ability to make fun and balanced Codices. His fluff can be a little goofy at times, but this is the game where space monks in power armor use chainsaw swords to fight psychic chavs made out of sentient fungus.

[Mod Edit - Rule #1, it is a rather important rule here.]

A few points.

1) 40K is better than it's ever been in terms of balance. To complain about codex creep, etc., NOW just shows you weren't trying back THEN.

2) Necron players better come to grips with the idea that their armies will need significant overhauls. They're going to aim the new codex at people who don't play Necrons, because a) that's where the money is, and b) they figure existing Necron players will go along with whatever and upgrade anyway. I've been painting Tyranids for about a year after the new codex hit...and I even had an extensive pre-Nidzilla collection.

3) Regarding #2, it's essentially a subscription-based hobby, and you need to come to grips with that if you're planning to stay in it.

4) Mat Ward isn't my fave designer, but his 40K efforts really aren't bad. I mean seriously, could it be worse than the last Necron codex? The one with fluff that prattled on and on about the C'tan and how they're responsible for all the horrors of the universe up to and including skunky beer, yet barely addressed the Necrons themselves? The one that back THEN was extremely limited in terms of options and builds? The one that borrowed themes from about 10 sources but never fully integrated them into a strong concept in fluff OR on the tabletop?

I'm sure some aren't going to give Mat a fair shake with this one, but they should.

ChiliPowderKeg wrote:No WBB?

I no longer have to deal with stupid, stupid, re-rollable AP3 Insta-Death avoiding nonsence!

Sorry but if necrons stay with similar builds, expect fnp against everything ( res orb nulls all instant death and probably will in the next codex)

Fetterkey wrote:Mat Ward has shown a consistent ability to make fun and balanced Codices. His fluff can be a little goofy at times, but this is the game where space monks in power armor use chainsaw swords to fight psychic chavs made out of sentient fungus.

My Necrons could turn into undead ballet dancers but if the codex is indeed a powerhouse, I'll have them perform swan lake all the way to top tables at tournaments.

Ouze wrote:

NecronLord3 wrote:Fingers crossed that we get an awesome model like the Dreadknight.

Not sure if serious...

So far as Mat Ward goes, I will enjoy having the stupidly powerful rules that the BA got. Maybe not the lore so much, though, it was very... simplified. That seems to the a recurring theme over the last year, really.

I've always wanted to start a Necron army, but that fact that I can get twice the number of models for any other army for the price of building a Necron army is ridiculous. I hate how almost all of their models are metal, and sold in blisters.

I'd love to see some big models for the Necrons. Something on the scale of the Dreadknight would be awesome.

I also like how they look like an 80's Arnold movie (blocks the rotting fruit being thrown).

If the new models stayed traditional, yet gave you the same feel of the FW Tomb Stalker, that'd be cool.

Is there any update on when we could expect to see the release?

Remember the old Iron Warriors list in the 3.5 chaos codex? People bitched because they had 4 heavy support choices. Now IG effectively get 9 with their fleets of leman russes.


Fluffwise we have Draigo, who is soooo scary demons won't fight him. Why is it the chaos gods don't just turn him into a hot dog or something? When did the chaos gods turn into giant wimps? Ugh. And that's why I hate Matt Ward. And Gav Thorpe. Damn him.

I'm interested in the new Necron codex. But if Ward is writing it, Jesus, who knows what we'll get. Maybe the Nightbringer will hump the Emperor's corpse?

I don't want to see a Dreadknight sized "Necron" in the book. No giant skeletons things. It's too cliche. What I Do want to see is Tomb Spyders completely redone into a plastic kit the size of a Carnifex or even Trygon with different back/tail/arm options and the like. Keep the same general scarab-esque look to it though, just bigger and beefier.

I hate that every army is getting so much FNP anymore, but I still want to see that rule replace WBB. It's just a far simpler and more stream lined rule that in the end accomplishes the same thing. Yes, one is stronger than the other in certain areas, but I think the strengths of FNP outweigh the strengths of WBB.

Noisy_Marine wrote:Remember the old Iron Warriors list in the 3.5 chaos codex? People bitched because they had 4 heavy support choices. Now IG effectively get 9 with their fleets of leman russes.

And those Leman Russes pay the penalty for being in squadrons. If IG could swap Elites slots for HS and Basilisks only came in 1/slot, you'd see the same complaints leveled against them.

And your "people bitched because they had 4 heavy support choices" anecdote is only telling half the story. Iron Warriors were absurdly pampered due to Pete Haines, a well-known Iron Warriors player, having wrote the Chaos book and spending extra time on the IW list.
-Siege Specialists veteran skill(Unit gets +1 on armor penetration rolls against enemy bunkers+tank traps. Minefields only triggered on a roll of 6. When occupying fortifications as the defenders, they were treated as Fearless) at no points cost, nor did it count towards their maximum number of skills.
-Obliterators lost the 0-1 restriction
- Could take Basilisks and Vindicators; Basilisk could take Indirect Fire. This in itself wasn't bad, but coupled with the other 3 Heavy Support slots being Defilers with indirect fire--it was absurd.
-Every Champion could take a Servo-Arm. Which wasn't in itself bad, but repairing immobilized results every turn was kinda silly.

So do you guys think necrons will still be infantry based?

Thats one of my favorite things about them.

1st page rumors only mention one new vehicle.

I woudl think so. if they start introducing transports etc then you might as well have a marine army.

The Harvester from Hellforged could be a very cool unit...

Praxiss wrote:I woudl think so. if they start introducing transports etc then you might as well have a marine army.

I agree, while it may seem too similar to undead/terminator etc, I've always liked the idea of the Implacable march of the metal men.

Shaman wrote:So do you guys think necrons will still be infantry based?

Thats one of my favorite things about them.

1st page rumors only mention one new vehicle.

I agree they should stay infantry based but I think that the transport rules for Monoliths needs to be adjusted to make them more predictable or allow for units to use the portal without having to roll for reserve. It would also be nice to see a cheaper portal maybe something along the lines of what the DE got with their Webway Portal. And/or more Veil of Darkness like wargear for a squad leader type of model. I really hope to see the Necrons get a leader type unit for squads perhaps allowing for Pariahs to command full necron units or simply very low level lords could do the job.

A leader/sarge equivalent would be terrible. It's completely antithetical to the conformist metal horde that is the Necrons. Might as well throw on gauss-fists while you're at it.

As far as transports go, I always envisioned an obelisk like structure that deepstrikes (rises up from the ground) and teleports units to it, rather than having a transport capacity. It would essentially be a mini-monolith , just immobile. Perhaps you could pay extra points to give it weaponry and re-roll WBB/FNP.

So which is it, Necron or Tau? Seems like so many conflicting rumours regarding this subject. I know its a proverbial dead horse, but I f*%#ing hate GWs marketing strategy

mjl7atlas wrote:So which is it, Necron or Tau? Seems like so many conflicting rumours regarding this subject. I know its a proverbial dead horse, but I f*%#ing hate GWs marketing strategy

There are three armies we have rumours about: Sisters, Necrons and Tau.

For Sisters, people have seen the work being done on their plastics, and they were apparently started just after the Grey Knights.
For Necrons, we've heard that the Immortals are getting bigger, but we know that the codex is a long way off because they haven't even got the background to the point where the Black Library can start writing novels about it.
For Tau, we've heard some rumours about new units, but it's not a 3rd edition codex, so it will probably wait until after the other two.

AlexHolker wrote:

mjl7atlas wrote:So which is it, Necron or Tau? Seems like so many conflicting rumours regarding this subject. I know its a proverbial dead horse, but I f*%#ing hate GWs marketing strategy

There are three armies we have rumours about: Sisters, Necrons and Tau.

For Sisters, people have seen the work being done on their plastics, and they were apparently started just after the Grey Knights.
For Necrons, we've heard that the Immortals are getting bigger, but we know that the codex is a long way off because they haven't even got the background to the point where the Black Library can start writing novels about it.
For Tau, we've heard some rumours about new units, but it's not a 3rd edition codex, so it will probably wait until after the other two.

'

We heard rumors about the Necron Models being worked on long before GK or Sisters, in fact I don't think there really were any rumors about GK models being worked on much in advance of the official announcement.

A leader/sarge equivalent would be terrible. It's completely antithetical to the conformist metal horde that is the Necrons. Might as well throw on gauss-fists while you're at it.

As far as transports go, I always envisioned an obelisk like structure that deepstrikes (rises up from the ground) and teleports units to it, rather than having a transport capacity. It would essentially be a mini-monolith , just immobile. Perhaps you could pay extra points to give it weaponry and re-roll WBB/FNP.

I disagree, as low level Lords is very much in the concept demonstrated from the Apocalypse book explaining the nodal command structure on the Necron, starting with Bronze lords and working up to the Platinum.

Having the obelisks would be nice, but the entire randomization of when and where our warriors pop up has to change and we have to be able to teleport other units like Flayed Ones(with fleet), Immortals, and Destoryers. The other issue with us not having a cheaper teleport option is the teleportation uses up our only real useful gun. If the Monolith could fire its Particle Whip and use the portal it would be so much better. Or the Gauss Flux Arcs have to be improved.

GW has to give us something to compete with Mech lists or I'll be inclined to believe that 6th is going to do it for us.

I think deep striking teleport pylons would be a good gimmick. Necron units could freely warp from each to each, and Monoliths would have the same teleport ability. Kind of a unique spin on the drop pod that would give them a decent gimmick, and help Necrons with their limited mobility problems.

I just wish the new Necrons would have some fairly powerful all-around list available to them that would be a serious foil to AV11/AV12 spam. It could have a huge impact on the metagame and in my opinion would be a breath of fresh air to the tournament scene.

Just wait for August to come...you'll have your answer.

Posted this in the Tau thread:
An interesting set of rumours by Captain Ventris over at Warseer, also dealing with Sororitas, Necrons and the summer flyer expansion, revealing the current working name "Wartorn Skies":

Tau will be a 2012 release as far as I know, Necrons are still slated for November, (talked to my source today) so the hubbub about them being pushed back is nonsense (AFAIK)

We are supposed recieve the Incoming Advanced orders email for Necrons on Oct. 31 with the release to be scheduled for late November (right in time for Black Friday )

Tau are slated for mid 2012 around may/june timeslot but I have no concrete info on this, its pure speculation on my part as I have been told what the supposed release schedule is to be

GK-April, 40K Expansion: Wartorn Skies-July, Necrons-November, Sisters-March, Tau-June

in terms as what is to be seen with any of these forthcoming releases I've no clue as (at least for necrons) I've been told a myriad of info, most of all came from the playtesting of the codex... Take with as much salt as you like
(...)
Yes, 40K Expansion: Wartorn Skies will be an expansion supposedly done as a White Dwarf Expansion similar to Spearhead however will have actual models released with it.

Wartorn Skies is the working name for the expansion and will likely be kept, but as its a White Dwarf expansion, they can easily change it out before going to the printer...

Kroothawk wrote:Posted this in the Tau thread:
An interesting set of rumours by Captain Ventris over at Warseer, also dealing with Sororitas, Necrons and the summer flyer expansion, revealing the current working name "Wartorn Skies":

Tau will be a 2012 release as far as I know, Necrons are still slated for November, (talked to my source today) so the hubbub about them being pushed back is nonsense (AFAIK)

We are supposed recieve the Incoming Advanced orders email for Necrons on Oct. 31 with the release to be scheduled for late November (right in time for Black Friday )

Tau are slated for mid 2012 around may/june timeslot but I have no concrete info on this, its pure speculation on my part as I have been told what the supposed release schedule is to be

GK-April, 40K Expansion: Wartorn Skies-July, Necrons-November, Sisters-March, Tau-June

in terms as what is to be seen with any of these forthcoming releases I've no clue as (at least for necrons) I've been told a myriad of info, most of all came from the playtesting of the codex... Take with as much salt as you like
(...)
Yes, 40K Expansion: Wartorn Skies will be an expansion supposedly done as a White Dwarf Expansion similar to Spearhead however will have actual models released with it.

Wartorn Skies is the working name for the expansion and will likely be kept, but as its a White Dwarf expansion, they can easily change it out before going to the printer...

That's a breath of fresh air, but I guess we are just going to have to wait and see how this turns out.

Therion wrote:I just wish the new Necrons would have some fairly powerful all-around list available to them that would be a serious foil to AV11/AV12 spam. It could have a huge impact on the metagame and in my opinion would be a breath of fresh air to the tournament scene.

I hope this happens.

Changing WBB by FNP is an error. Imagine you have FNP necrons. You shoot at one, wound it, and it survives thank to FNP. It's still your turn, so you shoot it again, and kill it.
Now imagine the same situation with WBB. You wound it. You can't shoot it again becuase it's "dead". Your turn ends. Now is necon player's turn. It autorepairs. Now it will move again and attack you again. You can't try to kill it again until your next turn.
You could say WBB is too complicated, but it isn't. Just put apart the wounded necrons, roll the dices and put them again in their places; is that that complicated?
If they loose WBB, they're loosing a very important advantage over other armies, one which makes them unique in terms of background and games. Maybe the part where you have to move the revived ones to the closest unit is too complicated, but only that.

About the other things, I just hope gauss weapons are going to still be destructive. That's another thing that makes necrons unique and pretty.

EDIT: ah yes. I liked the Harvester from "Hellforged" too. Could be a nice Codex unit, or Apocalypse unit...
Really... do what you want, but don't remake the necron race as another user said... don't kill them, conserve their spirit, the way they are... I gift you two pictures from DeviantArt, from the same author.
Links: http://perturabo93.deviantart.com/favourites/#/d31fmqs http://perturabo93.deviantart.com/favourites/#/d356k6j

Therion wrote:I just wish the new Necrons would have some fairly powerful all-around list available to them that would be a serious foil to AV11/AV12 spam.

And preferably doesn't have a clutch card against Tyranids (ie massive ammounts of low AP weapons - Guard/SM/SW, poisoned weapons - DE/Nids, instant death weapons - DH, or JOWW like abilities - DH/SW)

Give Heavy G Cannons 2d6 AP and all gauss weapons rending. Given that Rending works differently now than it did in 3e when the book was written, I don't think making all gauss rending is as broken as it was before. This puts them back where they should be in terms of anti vehicle and fills in their lack of AP3 weaponry.

I'd also give Flayed Ones rending (at least) and the Stealth USR. MAYBE move them to troops.

heres a idea that will make everyone happy

necrons are T4 sv 4+, have FNP AND WBB

SweetLou wrote:heres a idea that will make everyone happy

necrons are T4 sv 4+, have FNP AND WBB

Or they keep their statline, keep WBB because it is better then FNP and fits their fluff, and they aren't forced to be in 20-Warrior blobs. Throw in weapon options on warriors to bring them in line with other 5th edition troop choices and things are headed in the right direction.

IronChaos wrote:Changing WBB by FNP is an error. Imagine you have FNP necrons. You shoot at one, wound it, and it survives thank to FNP. It's still your turn, so you shoot it again, and kill it.
Now imagine the same situation with WBB. You wound it. You can't shoot it again becuase it's "dead". Your turn ends. Now is necon player's turn. It autorepairs. Now it will move again and attack you again. You can't try to kill it again until your next turn.
You could say WBB is too complicated, but it isn't. Just put apart the wounded necrons, roll the dices and put them again in their places; is that that complicated?
If they loose WBB, they're loosing a very important advantage over other armies, one which makes them unique in terms of background and games. Maybe the part where you have to move the revived ones to the closest unit is too complicated, but only that.

On the other hand, 10 man necron unit takes 40 wounds and fails 10 saves. No necrons within range for WBB. That unit is gone. With FNP, there would still be 5 left.

IronChaos wrote:

EDIT: ah yes. I liked the Harvester from "Hellforged" too. Could be a nice Codex unit, or Apocalypse unit...
Really... do what you want, but don't remake the necron race as another user said... don't kill them, conserve their spirit, the way they are... I gift you two pictures from DeviantArt, from the same author.
Links: http://perturabo93.deviantart.com/favourites/#/d31fmqs http://perturabo93.deviantart.com/favourites/#/d356k6j

Wow, that Pariah is WORLDS better than GW's version. I think only Jes Goodwin or Juan Diaz on his better days could really do that justice, but we can all hope. What I've heard so far seems to indicate that they aren't getting new models, but we'll see once GW starts talking and releasing pics...

pretre wrote:

IronChaos wrote:Changing WBB by FNP is an error. Imagine you have FNP necrons. You shoot at one, wound it, and it survives thank to FNP. It's still your turn, so you shoot it again, and kill it.
Now imagine the same situation with WBB. You wound it. You can't shoot it again becuase it's "dead". Your turn ends. Now is necon player's turn. It autorepairs. Now it will move again and attack you again. You can't try to kill it again until your next turn.
You could say WBB is too complicated, but it isn't. Just put apart the wounded necrons, roll the dices and put them again in their places; is that that complicated?
If they loose WBB, they're loosing a very important advantage over other armies, one which makes them unique in terms of background and games. Maybe the part where you have to move the revived ones to the closest unit is too complicated, but only that.

On the other hand, 10 man necron unit takes 40 wounds and fails 10 saves. No necrons within range for WBB. That unit is gone. With FNP, there would still be 5 left.

You're right. That's the only thing I would change in WBB: must be another unit in range to autorepair? I find it a little stupid (no offense), as the phase out rule.

Agreed, the "need another necron in range" thing doesn't make any sense, unless Necrons self-repair with airborne nano-scarabs that need to transmit to recieve data and instructions for what they should be repairing. However, my understanding was always that the living metal is like a liquid, and it simply flows back together to repair smoothly and flawlessly.

pretre wrote:On the other hand, 10 man necron unit takes 40 wounds and fails 10 saves. No necrons within range for WBB. That unit is gone. With FNP, there would still be 5 left.

On average a 3+ save will fail 13.33 out of 40 wounds, 3+ is a 2/3rd chance of saving. They would then get 6-7 of those guys back with FNP meaning 6-7 are gone with no chance of WBB.

Make WBB a 5+ with the current required conditions (similar unit in range, res orb, etc...) conferring stackable "+1 to roll" bonuses but have WBB always taken even against AP1/AP2/Instant Death wounds. If this is overpowered then have said devastating wounds negate any bonuses and force the WBB roll to be its base 5+. This would reward Necron players for keeping with the "wall of death" playstyle that was intended for the army but give them the risk/reward option of spreading their force out. Most importantly however is that it would give every Necron model a chance for WBB all the time, something that really should have been part of the initial rules if only for fluff reasons.

Keep the second chance WBB via Monoliths and keep Phase Out as well.

I agree with that. Other than that WBB is pretty simple. Go with that and make the Tomb Spider count as a res orb.

Lol didn't really read any comments except a skim over of "keep phase out". That is the #1 reason cron players aren't competitve lol

BlueDagger wrote:Lol didn't really read any comments except a skim over of "keep phase out". That is the #1 reason cron players aren't competitve lol

Actually it isn't. Necrons aren't really competitive because they are short on options, overcosted, and have odd restrictions like giant expensive Warrior blobs. Phase Out is only an issue because Necrons are too overcosted to fit the amount of "Necron" models into an army list that they need to survive against broken 5th edition codices like IG. Phase Out is totally fine and one of the coolest rules in 40K along with WBB, it is the codex being so outdated that the Phase Out rule is no longer balanced. All it would take is an update in points costs and amounts of "Necron" units to make Phase Out the cool rule it used to be.

My 2p:


1) Lose Phase Out - stupid rule anyway

2) Keep WBB (lose the bit abotu a similar model havign to be with x inches - just complictaes things)

3) Make Tomb Spider count as havign a res orb.

4) Make Gauss Rending

5) Make the Heavy D Cannon an optional upgrade to Destroyer squads.

6) Some sort of Transport/Teleport option other than the Monolith

SonicPara wrote:

BlueDagger wrote:Lol didn't really read any comments except a skim over of "keep phase out". That is the #1 reason cron players aren't competitve lol

Actually it isn't. Necrons aren't really competitive because they are short on options, overcosted, and have odd restrictions like giant expensive Warrior blobs. Phase Out is only an issue because Necrons are too overcosted to fit the amount of "Necron" models into an army list that they need to survive against broken 5th edition codices like IG. Phase Out is totally fine and one of the coolest rules in 40K along with WBB, it is the codex being so outdated that the Phase Out rule is no longer balanced. All it would take is an update in points costs and amounts of "Necron" units to make Phase Out the cool rule it used to be.

That's not true. Lack of options is a strength not a weakness. The only reason Necrons are uncompetitive is due to the weakened rules for gauss when the vehicle damage was changed in 5th, no protection from sweeping advance due our poor initiative, and other armies have beefed up transports again due to the overbalanced vehicle rules of 5th. Could we use so more option, some new units, and some rules to put us on par with other codexes? Absolutely, but those perks aren't what makes us uncompetitive.

The three main changes I would make in a new Necron codex;

1.) Change We'll Be Back into Feel No Pain. WBB is just an overly complicated rule that in the end has the same general effect as the MUCH simpler FNP. Yes, I'm sure "You" understand exactly how WBB works in all possible circumstances, but So Many people get the rule and all of it's interactions wrong So Often. Yes, FNP is a nerf to a couple unit's (mostly destroyers) durability from enemy shooting, but it's a buff to every unit's melee, as they'll get to make their attacks back after passing their saves, and melee is where we need the help.

2.) To further help Necrons in melee, without simply making them better at it, give all Necrons LD10, and an uber stubborn rule where they are Always and Forever LD10 and NOTHING can override or lower their LD to Anything other than LD10 for Any reason or purpose. OMG so Broken, right?! Keep reading...

3.) Phase Out. It's fluffy, but it really kills the army and the variety of units you can take as you constantly need to watch that Phase Out count. Instead put Phase Out on the Unit level, where if they fail a Moral Check, they Phase Out and the Unit is removed from the table, with no chance of coming back or saving, just gone. With the #2 change it'd be really hard to break `em, but when you do they suffer for it, and who wants to see robots running away in fear anyway?

I actuallly ike the sound of numbers 2 and 3 TBH.

yeah i could get behind 2 and 3.

are we sure august, as i have been told september, i know this isnt much diference and my source could have been refering to the white dwarf announce (back page) hmm i shall ask them to clarify

I heard something about a possible announcement in August, with the codex due out November-ish

Formosa wrote:yeah i could get behind 2 and 3.

are we sure august, as i have been told september, i know this isnt much diference and my source could have been refering to the white dwarf announce (back page) hmm i shall ask them to clarify

The latest rumor is an announcement in October, and Release in November.

This still ties in well with Stickmonkeys cryptic post on Warseer at the start of the year regarding 'All Souls Day' i.e. 2nd November and AKA the 'Day of the Dead' in some cultures

The incoming for GK's was around the three months out point IIRC.

Without dragging the thread into wishlisting, the Apocalypse and A.Reloaded books have some sweet and fluffy rules that could be adapted to normal size games. 'Subvert Machine' and 'Reconstruction Scarabs' are great.

that seems fair enough, like i said i think they may have been talking about the announce page/e-mail

So maybe the Incoming! around August with actualy release in Oct/Nov. Sounds about right, plenty of time to save up.

Praxiss wrote:So maybe the Incoming! around August with actualy release in Oct/Nov. Sounds about right, plenty of time to save up.

I've got the army, just need the super codex they deserve now

I have a basic army. i got the battleforce and then got 1 unit of everything else to see what worked.

Turns out Pariahs and H>Destroyers suck. Who knew?!

i stoppe dbuying after that as everythgin i wanted was in metal and i assumed there woudl be plastic releases at some point.

i'm also holding out hope for a box set of Destroyers (box of 3 ideally)

someone else can confirm this im sure.

Destroyers will be a plastic box of 3, with parts to upgrade to heavy and something else (special weapon i assume, not unit champ)

my source has always been spot on, so i cant see why this would be incorrect, however as always, pinch of salt

That would be awesome and exactly what i wanted to hear.

Really? "Top men" told me the black box would be in August since I told them I was taking my crons to Nova and he said it was a shame since the box would be by then but I wouldn't be able to use it.

Top. Men.

I hope necrons get robot monkies...

Or maybe robotic monkies riding wolves...

Or maybe woves riding robotic monkies...

or robotic monkey wolves?

i hate when i hear people say that necrons arnt competitive my buddys nercons have yet to loose a game in the last 4 tournaments we've played in.

if you play the army right its almost unbeatable

that being said they really do need a new codex but only because its so old. i agree with gauss being rending and trading wbb for fnp

I am dead against gettgin rid of WBB, it's a crucial part of the fluff, it just needs tidyign up a little.

Gauss = Rending just makes sense.

personally i would like to keep a steamlined WBB, everyone get FNP now

Dark Eldar-Army wide FNP (its doable)
Blood Angels-Army wide FNP (very easy)
the Rest get acess to FNP fairly easily (except tau, but that will happen no doubt)

so just giving Necrons FNP is plain lazy, even if it is a better or faster mechanic, put the extra effort in to make it work.

As for gauss=rending, if the guns are 24" Heavy 1 (only if necrons are relentless) or just 1 shot, im fine with that, but if its rapid fire, then i totally disagree

20 man necrons units with FNP, Rapid fire, rending, ld 10 and as some people have proposed Stubborn, that is ott

someone do the math hammer for 20 necrons rapid fireing with bs 4, im pretty sure this would kill... well pretty much everything

Formosa wrote:someone do the math hammer for 20 necrons rapid fireing with bs 4, im pretty sure this would kill... well pretty much everything

40 Shots
26-27 Hits
About 13 Wounds on MEQ, at least 2 being rending.
MEQ fail one rending on 4+ cover save, and about 4 on 3+ armour save.
About 5 MEQ dead on average from 20 Rapid Firing S4 Rending Necron Warriors.

SonicPara wrote:

Formosa wrote:someone do the math hammer for 20 necrons rapid fireing with bs 4, im pretty sure this would kill... well pretty much everything

40 Shots
26-27 Hits
About 13 Wounds on MEQ, at least 2 being rending.
MEQ fail one rending on 4+ cover save, and about 4 on 3+ armour save.
About 5 MEQ dead on average from 20 Rapid Firing S4 Rending Necron Warriors.

That's... not that broken The only problem with rending is that Necron Weaponry won't be nearly as effective against vehicles as they should be.

Scarey Nerd wrote:
That's... not that broken The only problem with rending is that Necron Weaponry won't be nearly as effective against vehicles as they should be.

They'd be more effective than they are currently, though. Rending S4 can pen up to Armor 12 and Glance up to 13. Gauss weapons currently can pen nothing.

It doesn't seem too broken against MEQ but that is raw averages and will quickly swing the way of "WTF really?" with some good rolling. Most infantry struggle to inflict 3 or 4 wounds against MEQ and rapid firing rending Warriors should do 5 even without their wheaties that morning. Like IG, the potential to dominate more then the unit should is there but it would only surface depending on rolling and battlefield conditions.

Against non-MEQ it is much worse. Since I'm a Tau player, I'll use Fire Warriors, and they are considered to be "heavy infantry" compared to some of the other guys out there like your basic Guardsman and an Ork Boy.

40 Shots
26-27 Hits
17-18 Wounds, at least 3 of which should be rending.
1-2 fail rending saves on 4+ cover, about 7 fail armor saves on 4+.
8-9 dead Fire Warriors

Against XV8s the results would be the same as MEQ except with a total of six wounds in the unit (assuming there are no drones) those Warriors have almost entirely destroyed the unit in one round of shooting. Of course no Tau player worth a damn would allow 20 Warriors to simply walk into rapid fire range of their XV8s, such a thing could happen if Necrons get all sorts of teleporting drop pod beacons that everyone has been coming up with in this thread. I think straight rending may be a little much for all gauss weapons. I think that they would make much more sense as pinning weapons and then expand the codex to create more AT options for the army.


It may not scare MEQ all that much but anything weaker would get blown away by them. Couple that with them being Ld10, Stubborn, and FNP as many seem to desire and there is just no good way to deal with waves of 20 strong Warrior blobs short of being Marines or IG and hitting them with Demolisher/Battle Cannon/Basilisk rounds.

But as each Codex is sillier than the next, it should fit the trend

SonicPara wrote:

Formosa wrote:someone do the math hammer for 20 necrons rapid fireing with bs 4, im pretty sure this would kill... well pretty much everything

40 Shots
26-27 Hits
About 13 Wounds on MEQ, at least 2 being rending.
MEQ fail one rending on 4+ cover save, and about 4 on 3+ armour save.
About 5 MEQ dead on average from 20 Rapid Firing S4 Rending Necron Warriors.

out of 27 dice you are telling me only 2 6's... experience tell me thats not true, but if thats the maths thats the maths

I'm going to test it out, and see for myself, be back in a couple of days

Formosa wrote:out of 27 dice you are telling me only 2 6's... experience tell me thats not true, but if thats the maths thats the maths

I'm going to test it out, and see for myself, be back in a couple of days

You are right, I apologize. I was taking 1 out of every 6 wounds instead of 1 out of every 6 hits. Here is the revised breakdown:

MEQ/Crisis Suits

40 Shots
26-27 Hits
About 13 Wounds on MEQ, at least 4 (5 would be rare) being rending.
MEQ fail 2 rending on 4+ cover save, and about 3 on 3+ armour save.
About 5 MEQ dead on average from 20 Rapid Firing S4 Rending Necron Warriors. Unit of three XV8s is killed down to one suit with one wound left.

Non-MEQ (Fire Warriors)

40 Shots
26-27 Hits
17-18 Wounds, at least 4 (5 would be rare) of which should be rending.
2 fail rending saves on 4+ cover, about 7 fail armor saves on 4+.
About 9 dead Fire Warriors

The end results are the same but they are significantly better when shooting at a unit without a cover save. Poses more of a threat to vehicles and 2+ save models too.

ah right, that seems to make sense.

do the maths for AP1 aswell please, but not rending

im curious how that idea would pan out

How about this for Gauss, they decrease the save of the enemy. Maybe you can get no better armour save than a 4+ unless the Gauss gun would already inflict more damage. Does that sound more balanced than universal rending?

the problem with 4+ save thing is the same as the old chopper rule, it penalised termies but not guardman, didnt make alot of sense

Formosa wrote:the problem with 4+ save thing is the same as the old chopper rule, it penalised termies but not guardman, didnt make alot of sense

Not sure what the old chopper rule is, but still think I get what you're saying.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually instead of reducing armour to a flat 4+ it decreases it by one. So termies become 3+, does that sound better or is it still wonky?

The gun itself could have AP- or keep it AP 5

How about we have it treat everyone as having 6+ armour, but being ap -

Ork armour for all

unfortunatly i think for the Gauss gun it will have to be Rending or ap 1/2, i cannot see GW doing modifiers ever again (much to my anoyance)

Just a flat -1 save modifier would be a lot more sensible than what you folks are saying. 2+ becomes 3+, 5+ becomes 6+, 6+ becomes nothing. The only units who aren't affected are grots and daemons, pretty much.

true Brother SRM, i totally agree 10000000000000%

GW on the other hand... how many ASM do you see in 40k these days?

To me it always sounded like in the fluff from the current dex that back in the day the necrons were one of three powerhouses and that 2 of them were harvesting and drained things dry. So to come out of stasis to find a great many battle hardened races (the three created to destroy them still floating around no less) it would make sense for the C'tan to gives the lords and such a little of their free will back so they could more readily adapt to the new still unknown threats they might face.

As for rules I always felt that w/ all the 12 inch moves/mobile firepower the crons had a very blitzkrieg feel. I hope Whatever may be the new codex goes for that kind of feel once more.

Ok. I play Necrons (someone said no one plays them) and I had not played since 1st edition. Talk about a simpler game!!!! You are complaining about how hard WBB is to understand... LOL. Should try the 1st edition Ork rules. (The army I used to play.) I am excited to see what become of Necrons. I have over 100 warriors, and am looking forward to some other plastic minis. I hope they keep with the limited choices, but not quite as limited.

jonnyb

JonnyB wrote:Ok. I play Necrons (someone said no one plays them) and I had not played since 1st edition. Talk about a simpler game!!!! You are complaining about how hard WBB is to understand... LOL. Should try the 1st edition Ork rules. (The army I used to play.) I am excited to see what become of Necrons. I have over 100 warriors, and am looking forward to some other plastic minis. I hope they keep with the limited choices, but not quite as limited.

jonnyb

1st Edition? *insert Inigo Montoya picture here* It doesn't mean what you think it means.

there were not any necrons in first

they went by another name... cookie to who knows it

Formosa wrote:there were not any necrons in first

they went by another name... cookie to who knows it

He didnae say there were, just that Necrons were the army he picked when coming back to the game...

The only thing I can remember is the Chaos Android?

Slinky wrote:

Formosa wrote:there were not any necrons in first

they went by another name... cookie to who knows it

He didnae say there were, just that Necrons were the army he picked when coming back to the game...

The only thing I can remember is the Chaos Android?

yes. Chaos Androids.

Built by chaos squats..

Ah..ancient Epic... i miss you

Delays in the new Necron Codex? Cryx-Cron is not amused!
[/img]

There are no "delays" in the Necron Codex, it was finished ages ago. When they decide to release it, they'll release it. Unless they already announced a release date and postponed that, which they haven't, then there's no delay there either.

BrassScorpion wrote:There are no "delays" in the Necron Codex, it was finished ages ago. When they decide to release it, they'll release it. Unless they already announced a release date and postponed that, which they haven't, then there's no delay there either.

Then I may stay on my schedule for waking the tomb up.

BrassScorpion wrote:There are no "delays" in the Necron Codex, it was finished ages ago.

We were told just two weeks ago that it isn't finished, and that the fluff side still isn't set in stone.

Depending on the Models and the Dex, i migth make a try with Crons and model them as some kind of Necromancers in 40k...

Would be interresting...

BrassScorpion wrote:There are no "delays" in the Necron Codex, it was finished ages ago. When they decide to release it, they'll release it. Unless they already announced a release date and postponed that, which they haven't, then there's no delay there either.

When/Where did you hear this? it seems contrary to the recent rumors, but if you know something different, please share!

My point was simply that something can't be "delayed" unless it fails to meet a schedule. Since as customers we are not privy to what schedule GW would like to release it on, then from where we're sitting there's been no delay because there's been no failure to meet an (announced) schedule. GW will decide to release it when they want and they are free to change their mind as many times as they like.

As for whether or not it comes out this year, again GW can shuffle their release schedule as they see fit, but I would think at this point that Necrons are at least as likely as anything else that has not yet been announced and probably more likely than many things as yet unannounced. By the time we see something in stores it's been done months, sometimes years already, boxed and ready for distribution. Then GW finds what they believe is an opportune date to market and release it. If people thought Necrons would be released this year for good reasons, then there's still a good chance for that because the bulk of manufacturing and packaging would have already been completed to meet such a schedule.

That does sound quite reasonable Brassscorpion, I myself am looking forwards to seeing how they make the Necrons fit the present edition of the game.

Pretty much every legitimate rumor monger out there has said the rumor about any delay in the release of the Necron book, is untrue. I'd bet all 6500pts of Necrons I own that it will be out by the end of this year.

Exactly, I only have at present 4 lords, deceiver, 2 warrior squads and some scarabs at present.

Scarey Nerd wrote:But as each Codex is sillier than the next, it should fit the trend

This also applies to the fluff.

Over the smoke of the battlefield, the broken remnants of the Tyranid forces lay in disarray. Dying hormagaunts bleated out their death throes, their bodies riddled with high caliber shoota shells and partially discorporated by exotic gauss weaponry. The two remaining foes eyed each other warily as they approached each other over this scene of carnage: The barbaric Ork warlord Grimgutz, power klaw still dripping with alien viscera, stared down the approaching Necron Lord M'katz in his hoverboard mode. M'katz transformed into a skeletal robotic humanoid - his cruel evil features were the epitome of evil cruelness - and stood before him, his purple cape glittering in the wind, his gold tooth gleaming. "Yo, homes!" he exclaimed. "Those Tyranids were wack, you know what I'm sayin'? My crew is mad low on Dilithium power cores right now, and we's about to go into status lock, for reals."

Warlord Grimgutz thought this over, the effort clear on his thick brow. "Me boyz took a right wicked pounding. Orkses is never beat, but maybe we need more boyz."

M'Katz gestured towards his skeletal robotic destroyers, riding on on their skeletal robotic spiders. "I feel you. Lets roll like this: I go my way, you go yours, and we catch each other on the flipside, right?" Grimgutz nodded in agreement. The two fist-bumped in agreement. M'katz winked at Grimgutz, before transforming into his alien robotic spyplane mode and flying off into the twinkling night stars, his theme music fading into the distance .

Ouze wrote:
This also applies to the fluff.

Over the smoke of the battlefield, the broken remnants of the Tyranid forces lay in disarray. Dying hormagaunts bleated out their death throes, their bodies riddled with high caliber shoota shells and partially discorporated by exotic gauss weaponry. The two remaining foes eyed each other warily as they approached each other over this scene of carnage: The barbaric Ork warlord Grimgutz, power klaw still dripping with alien viscera, stared down the approaching Necron Lord M'katz in his hoverboard mode. M'katz transformed into a skeletal robotic humanoid - his cruel evil features were the epitome of evil cruelness - and stood before him, his purple cape glittering in the wind, his gold tooth gleaming. "Yo, homes!" he exclaimed. "Those Tyranids were wack, you know what I'm sayin'? My crew is mad low on Dilithium power cores right now, and we's about to go into status lock, for reals."

Warlord Grimgutz thought this over, the effort clear on his thick brow. "Me boyz took a right wicked pounding. Orkses is never beat, but maybe we need more boyz."

M'Katz gestured towards his skeletal robotic destroyers, riding on on their skeletal robotic spiders. "I feel you. Lets roll like this: I go my way, you go yours, and we catch each other on the flipside, right?" Grimgutz nodded in agreement. The two fist-bumped in agreement. M'katz winked at Grimgutz, before transforming into his alien robotic spyplane mode and flying off into the twinkling night stars, his theme music fading into the distance .

:-D

Not far off from some of the more recent stuff, and a whole lot more entertaining to read

Truly a story of legend Ouze, lmao.
NecronLord3 i'd also bet my 10'000+ army on them releasing this year aswell, they just have too.

If they, in fact DONT release this year....could i have both your armies?

The guy at my local GW yesterday wouldn't confirm or deny anything but went quiet when i mentioned necron release in November.

Also stated he didn't know who was writing the codex.....has this been established yet or not?

Praxiss wrote:Also stated he didn't know who was writing the codex.....has this been established yet or not?

Yes. A number of people have stated that it's being written by Mat Ward, including a Black Library author in an official Q&A session.

Thought so, couldn't remember if it had been "officially" confirmed or not.

'we're doomed , doooooomed' - in fake scottish accent

I'll not bet my army, but i will start blowing dust off of some of the models in the hope they'll cease to suck and actually see some play

Ascalam wrote:'we're doomed , doooooomed' - in fake scottish accent

I'll not bet my army, but i will start blowing dust off of some of the models in the hope they'll cease to suck and actually see some play

More than likely you'll just have to go out and buy a new Necron Monstrous Creature that has a "Gauss Silencer" and a "Phase Hammer" that just happens to have an Immortal on a papoose and a special character Necron Lord that makes them scouting, scoring troops units (with an optional orbital bombardment for 10 points) if you take them in units of 3 that don't phase out.

What's sad is i'd probably buy it anyway, just to have new Necron model.

You know, novelty value

They'll probably bring a new C'tan on the table, apparently they have around 6 total C'tan gods left

SoulBellow wrote:They'll probably bring a new C'tan on the table, apparently they have around 6 total C'tan gods left

There have been 4 mentioned, 2 of which are at large and 2 are imprisoned. To use the outsider would be alright, but void dragon would require GW advancing plot, and I think we can agree that ain't gonna happen in a month of blue moons.

SoulBellow wrote:They'll probably bring a new C'tan on the table, apparently they have around 6 total C'tan gods left

Actually the rumour has been that C'tan will be removed from the codex as an option altogether, and become Apocalypse only.

Like with every rumour nobody knows for sure though.

'but void dragon would require GW advancing plot'

Or just retconning it like usual They're very very fond of that, which is annoying when you're fond of the older fluff :(

Ascalam wrote:'but void dragon would require GW advancing plot'

Or just retconning it like usual They're very very fond of that, which is annoying when you're fond of the older fluff :(

I highly doubt they will, Matt Ward will cry in a corner and sob for his beloved Marines if the Void Dragon is now on Mars, awake, and hungry. Unless they say "OH BTW HE WAS NEVER THERE HAHAHA LOL", at which point GW will lose a customer.

Like they care about losing customers that aren't Power-Armoured. I'm not fond of GW bashing, but you have to admit, they have some coming at times.

Ask any long time Nid player about how thrilled they were by the new codex and FAQ. A lot of the guys on Warpshadow quit Nids for other armies.

How much love have Necrons had in a decade? It's only us diehards who don't mind being repeatedly beaten and new folk who have the same stubborn streak left :

It's not as if they couldn't say that the Void Dragon (tabletop version) is some sort of ghost or manifestation of the dreaming Void Dragon. Fits the overall Lovecraftian vibe they've said is an influence on Necron lore, and would even deal with the whole "Wahhh! Why do they get gods on the table when we only get Avatars, Greater Daemons, or Something Else That's Cool?!?" complaints: It's not a 'God' just a tiny portion of the C'Tan.

Balance wrote:It's not as if they couldn't say that the Void Dragon (tabletop version) is some sort of ghost or manifestation of the dreaming Void Dragon. Fits the overall Lovecraftian vibe they've said is an influence on Necron lore, and would even deal with the whole "Wahhh! Why do they get gods on the table when we only get Avatars, Greater Daemons, or Something Else That's Cool?!?" complaints: It's not a 'God' just a tiny portion of the C'Tan.

I was under the impression that what's on the table is the actual god. I can't speak for the Deceiver, but the Nightbringer did escape from its prisonment on Pavonis. He fought Uriel Ventris of the Smurfs, and they wouldn't lie about it.

new folk who have the same stubborn streak left

Speaking as a new person with that stubborn streak. Represent!

Scarey Nerd wrote:

Ascalam wrote:'but void dragon would require GW advancing plot'

Or just retconning it like usual They're very very fond of that, which is annoying when you're fond of the older fluff :(

I highly doubt they will, Matt Ward will cry in a corner and sob for his beloved Marines if the Void Dragon is now on Mars, awake, and hungry. Unless they say "OH BTW HE WAS NEVER THERE HAHAHA LOL", at which point GW will lose a customer.

Or Ward gives them Gauss weapons in their next codex.

referece: The Ward Angels and Necron bro-mance.

Balance wrote:It's not as if they couldn't say that the Void Dragon (tabletop version) is some sort of ghost or manifestation of the dreaming Void Dragon. Fits the overall Lovecraftian vibe they've said is an influence on Necron lore, and would even deal with the whole "Wahhh! Why do they get gods on the table when we only get Avatars, Greater Daemons, or Something Else That's Cool?!?" complaints: It's not a 'God' just a tiny portion of the C'Tan.

They could go everquest style and have a model for "Avatar of the Void Dragon", which can possess vehicles. Pimp.

Like Subvert Machine?

I don't know what that is?

Ouze wrote:I don't know what that is?

Lets Lords take control of enemy vehicles in Apocalypse. You get to shoot one of its weapons, and then it takes a random number of auto hits

Never used it but it sounds funky, especially if you can sneak close enough to a titan. Lol.

Dr. Temujin wrote:

Balance wrote:It's not as if they couldn't say that the Void Dragon (tabletop version) is some sort of ghost or manifestation of the dreaming Void Dragon. Fits the overall Lovecraftian vibe they've said is an influence on Necron lore, and would even deal with the whole "Wahhh! Why do they get gods on the table when we only get Avatars, Greater Daemons, or Something Else That's Cool?!?" complaints: It's not a 'God' just a tiny portion of the C'Tan.

I was under the impression that what's on the table is the actual god. I can't speak for the Deceiver, but the Nightbringer did escape from its prisonment on Pavonis. He fought Uriel Ventris of the Smurfs, and they wouldn't lie about it.

It's subjective. I think the Codex uses a lot of verbage about the C'Tans life-force in a necrodermis shell or soemthign, so it could be tweaked and be extremely minor re-imagining.

'God' in the 40k setting is pretty much a title you earn, anyway. The gods of the setting seem to be mostly paragons of various concepts and such... They're not the 'creators' of most real-world religions. In 40k, if you can get a large number of people to worship you, you're a god.

Sir Harry Flashman, VC wrote:

Ouze wrote:I don't know what that is?

Lets Lords take control of enemy vehicles in Apocalypse. You get to shoot one of its weapons, and then it takes a random number of auto hits

Ah so that's where Relic got their idea for destroyer lords possessing vehicles in DoW: Dark Crusade. Always wondered about that.

not sure if it might have been the other way around......when did apoc and DoW come out?

Praxiss wrote:not sure if it might have been the other way around......when did apoc and DoW come out?

Apocalypse was released in October 2007, 5th Edition rules were released the following July 2008. Dawn Of War Dark Crusade was released October 2006.

Really? Didn't realise it was that long ago.

It seems like just yesterday that Dawn of War: Dark Crusade was released\the series peaked.

I LOVED Dark Crusade. It was one of those game you coudl play over and over again and still enjoy.

My fave tactic was to just build up a MASSIVE force of warriors and immortals and roll up the entire map, fortifying each objective with Obilisks as i went round.

Is this a new codex teaser? Blood of kittens drops future necron hints: http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2011/03/23/future-tact-adepticon-2012-report/

as to advancing the storyline, i was told that the 6th ed rules book would be advancing it, and that the emp will die, to this i responded "Thats what they said about EoT, and i will believe it when i see it" but he seemed pretty convinced

take THAT rumour with an everest of salt
the guy who told me wasnt my normal source so i dont believe anything he says yet, and considering the validity of this rumour, i dont think i will.

thought id share though

Game Three – Necrons

My opponent was a returning vet from the U.N. sanctioning actions in Canada, so he had been out of the game a while. He came back to discover his Necron army was viable again. He hadn’t bought anything new, but his Apocalypse size selection of old models made for a force that was pretty darn strong. He was my favorite opponent of the day and it turned out he only lived about an hour away from me. So we exchanged emails. We ended up becoming gaming buddies; we play about twice a month now. The words you’re looking for are “awe, shucks that’s cute”.

So his army today included a 1 Skimmer Lord, Lords for the Squads, 1 C’Tan, 9 destroyers and an obscene number of warriors in 5 squads (I think he had about 50 on the table). I was surprised that he didn’t bring any Scarabs, but also relieved, they would have eaten my transports alive.

Our mission was a five objective job, but every turn you held an objective you got a Mission Point. Whoever had the most at the end of the game would win. One was automatically in the center, and the other four we took turns deploying, but only one per table quarter. We had a spearhead deployment. I put one in my deployment as near the center as I could, and the other in the other corner along my edge, as close to the center as I could. He placed his two in terrain in the quarters.

I deployed first, placing the Raven in reserve and the rest of my army as close to the center as I could. The Vindicares made the flanks rough, especially for the lord and C’Tan, holding back to far for the destroyers to get too, but making sure to be a threat if anything came to far forward.

He failed to seize, and I held my ground, pumping as many shots as I could into the C’Tan. I managed two get three wounds onto it between my Vindicares and Str 6 heavy bolters. I got two points (having moved onto the second objective in the center).

My opponent moved to his second objective, splitting his warriors a bit. I took a lot of Str 6 shooting but managed to survive the combined fire. All of his necrons not holding an objective marched forward, took a few shots but didn’t do anything else.

My turn two the raven came in. I pushed hard for the objective I put near the middle but out of my quarter. I got to it (moving flat out) and managed to take the C’Tan down with the Assault Cannon. I then took shots at with the vindicares, and using my ability to pick models hurt the lords buried in two of the squads.

I held my ground, weathering a lot of fire for a few rounds, knocking his lord out of the air and hitting him where I could from range. Holding my three objectives till round 4 won me the game.

In the coming months he picked up some of the new kits and rounded is force out a lot more, and is quite a challenge to play against. He routinely makes Mech Guard players who haven’t adapted to the new metagame cry foul with his Scarabs and multiple C’Tan.

That's the quote from bloodofkittens blog. Seems very interesting....

You do realize that he's just making things up for a story about a tournament that takes place next year, right?

agnosto wrote:You do realize that he's just making things up for a story about a tournament that takes place next year, right?

I read through it, but I was aware that he has posted rumors before. Could be nothing, could be something. Take it how you will.

I take it as a hint of what our HQs are going to look like at how existing units are going to effectively be deployed with the new dex. Could be a big pile of BS but Tastytaste usually hides a nugget of truth in every pile of dog pooh.

If there is anything to it at all, and it is not just a bunch of made-up rubbish, the main hint I get is that Scarabs will be very effective against mech (is this what they are now, or not?), and there might be more than two C'tan (although "multiple" could be two as well of course) available (for Apocalypse games).

Since everything these days is mech mech mech it would be cool if lowly Scarab swarms are going to be a solution for Necrons to force other strategies on opponents. I'm not a big fan of mech spam, so this would be very welcome.

TBD wrote:...Scarabs will be very effective against mech (is this what they are now, or not?)...

That was their original purpose back in 2nd edition - they were obscenely tough and could latch onto a tank to make its armour easier to penetrate.

yep, remember the scarabs used to do a str8/10? suicide attack? vs vehicles, its a bit fuzzy i cant quite remember.

this was the chapter arpoved article before the necron codex came out, when scarabs were not a swarm but a single model.

Str8 scarabs?!?! /drool

Praxiss wrote:Str8 scarabs?!?! /drool

yeah it was something like that, i cant quite remember, but it was a single models and a single attack, and i think it killed the scarab afterwards, and only in CC with a tank

Necron Bomb squigs ftw

I'm getting conversion ideas now

Scarabs used to sit on enemy tanks and eat their armour and disrupt weapons. I started buying White Dwarf with he issue that first featured Necrons in a battle report (Massacre at Sanctuary 101?)

cheers da boss, now i know which white dwarf it was, i will post the rule when i find through it (i have stacks and stacks lol)

I know it's a bit out of context with the narrative of this rumor thread, but I just wanted to say here in a thread where lots of Necron players are talking, I went ahead and bought myself the Necron Battleforce today. I had a GW gift card from a bunch of friends, and I'm incredibly excited about starting a Cron army.

I'm not buying more stuff until the update, but I figure warriors and destroyers are probably here to stay. I've been playing Space Marines since the beginning of Fifth, and painting my first scarab swarm today, I can already tell that these robotic zombie legions are a breath of fresh air.

Thanks for picking apart these rumors in depth, it's really exciting to read what you all have to say.

Good for you

Expect the mandatory 'Necrons are sooo OP Cheese' from people It hasn't been true in years, but once an idea gets lodged

Hopefully our new codex, when we eventually get it, will support this opinion

Congrats on your first 'Cron purchase. make sure to post a pic when you have painted some up. not enough necron pictures in the gallery.

If this July rumour is true we should be seeing an 'incoming' email sometime next month. I'm betting on a Oct/Nov Release though as this matches previous release patterns by GW. July would be awesome though.

I think it's been prettty much agreed that we MIGHT see an Incoming in July/August with the actual release October/November

Ok.

Take this with Salt, and don’t believe me if you don’t want to but here goes:

So first things first. There is a lot that can and will change, but this is what I know for now:

New kits done in plastic:
Destroyers/Heavy Destroyers. This will be released as one kit with lots of options. They look like the old hybrid kits, but in plastic with fancier torso’s. The skimmer body things don’t look much changed, actually. But I don’t think that’s a bad thing. With the hefty price drop from their current points cost, expect to be buying a lot of these to deal with your enemy termies and the like, since with the exception of one of the Special Character Lords they are your best option for dealing with 2+ saves, though there is an option for a lawn mower (lown mower as in a gun that has alot of shots, to mow throw hordes) type weapon too if you want to deal with hordes, though considering the other weapon options you have with these guys and the number of other units in the new codex with slaughter hordes better, its sort of a waste. You get 1 per box.

Immortals – These look coolish…kinda. I think I liked the simpler look of the old ones, but if you are a fan of all the “bling” that GW has started throwing on with remakes like the BA and GK, then you will like the new Immortals. I don’t really find that they fit with the Necron look, but time will tell, and maybe they will look better painted. They are also bigger. One of the Special Character ‘Cron lords makes them troops. Will come in boxes of 5, can be in units of up to 10.

Tomb spider is getting a nice remake, haven’t seen the model yet but I hear it looks cool. Like the Destroyers, the rumor is that this will have several options and be able to fulfill a Varity of roles in the army. 1 per box.

New MC/Vehicle type thing that can throw down some long range hurt but is still underwhelming compared to things like the Manticore, and will likely be unpopular. 48” range I believe. It looks really stupid and out of place in the Necron force. 1 per box

New giant MC guy with either ranged or melee options. Has a very Wraith Lord feel all around. One of the guns looks similar (maybe the same?) to the new gun the destroyer guys are getting which works well against hordes. He has a lot of weapon options and looks….ok. I am not a big fan of giants though so maybe it’s me. Defiantly a MC like a wraith lord and not a vehicle like a dreadnaught/sentinel however. I think people will either build lists around 3 of these guys (you can’t take them in squadrons, so they really eat up your HS slots, which honestly surprised me since GW seems to be letting people take walkers in groups of 3 so they can sell more) or won’t take them at all. Still in the age where half the guardsman and space marines in the galaxy seem to run around packing plasma or melta guns, I don’t expect these guys will be that competitive even with their high toughness just because to kit them out with the best weapon options makes them a bit more expensive then they are worth, and giant models tend to attract a lot of fire power. I think I saw something about a way to make them available in elite slots as well as HS slots. Maybe through a special character? 1 per box.

New fast attack unit that finally gives Necron’s some non MC melee options. Look kinda like flayed ones. They have an 18” charge with their special ability. Think jump infantry with special rules. 5 per box


Warriors will come 10 to a box; have some new options and also other colors of rod (orange and red I think? Orange is not bright orange, but sort of dark, kinda like a beer color almost) Otherwise look the same.

Didn’t see a plastic lord, but didn’t hear that there wasn’t one. Still, I can’t really say either way, though it would be nice if they put one out I don’t really have any evidence that this is the case.

I didn’t see or hear anything about an LED kit for the Monolith. I am not saying that something like that isn’t going to happen, but I haven’t heard even the slightest hint of something like that happening, or seen any evidence to suggest it other then what people post on forums like this.




New Blisters:
There is a new metal lord on foot, has a staff. Looks really cool, but I don’t like painting metal, so I don’t know if I will be picking him up.



Rules:
WBB is basically FNP for most guys. Not saying its FNP exactly, but well…it pretty much comes out to being FNP. The way Res orbs work has, obviously, been reworked as well.

Phase out is…well phased out. Not saying the rule is completely gone, but you won’t have to buy a ton of unit X to keep your enemy from just destroying your “Necrons” units and causing your army to get removed.

C’tan are gone, and are replaced with powerful named Necron lords and special characters.

One of the Lords makes Immortals troops, though I am not sure if they are scoring.

Another Special Character has some really nice anti psyker abilities. I don’t think he is a lord, some other sort of Necron maybe? I don’t play Necrons myself, but I didn’t get the impression that he was a boss ‘Cron.

Unlike what people have been saying, not all gauss weapons are rending.

Living metal is changing, but if anything its getting better. Kinda.

A lot of the weird complicated rules from the codex are getting simplified and a lot of the war gear options are vanishing, though many of them will be back in slightly altered form as special abilities or items owned by some of the new special characters.

Necrons will have their magic power guy, but no he isn’t a psyker. I mean he is LIKE a psyker, but is not actually, you know, a psyker. Even if he plays and feels…well you know, just like a psyker.

While the Ctan are themselves out of the codex ( a good thing, since they were way underpowered for gods) look to see their influence still in place.

Over all Necrons are a lot cheaper across the board point wise, though that’s to be expected (GW wants you to buy more little plastic men, and the best way to do this is make it so it takes more of them to fill up an army). Monoliths remain expensive though, and one of the lords was something crazy, like 240 points or somewhere around there. He looks like he has potential to be beastly in CC though.

I didn’t see any rules for a transport for the warriors, though I was really hoping they would get something to bring them into the age of 5th edition mech. I wish I could tell you they had a necrhino or nechimera but I just didn’t see anything like that, and I didn’t hear about anything like that either. They have been giving some interesting new fast attack and CC options, but it looks like, at least to me, that they still won’t be at the power level of BA/SW/GK. Still, they will get a much needed boost from their current state, and should be a lot less confusing to play.

I don’t have a release date, but I am expecting an October release. That’s a guess though.

Again I fully expect at least some of this to change, so take this with all the salt you want, but I thought maybe some folks might want some more rumors, and since no one else seemed to want to put this stuff out, I figured I would. Likewise I am only human and it’s possible I remembered something wrong. Anyway, Enjoy.

Well, Tabitha, Welcome to Dakka!

Some interesting rumors you have there, they seem nice.

Just curious where you heard them from though.

I would love to have some of those changes, esp in the kits you mentioned.

Almost done reading the Fall of Damnos and it mentions some of what was just mentioned there.

There is a, what can only be described as, Tomb Stalker like construction that spits Guass beams from its mouth with the ability to split into 3-Tomb Spyder things

A Flayed Lord, and other special Lords to

Edit:*

And some sort of reworked Pariah guys that have a leader for their squad.

It also mentions a second gun that Destroyers were able to mod themselves with and that some of the BFG guns are being given to heavier ground units.

*The Chronomancer is Not a Lord, it seems to be a promoted Necron of a sort who is now, what's called, a Cryptek. He is directly linked with the Tomb and is responsible for construction of Spyders and Scarabs, though it is also mentioned that there are more then one. The sentience of all is debated but confirmed that one can have a personality.

Just things I have seen or in some cases talked about with my friends who have seen them.

I am a long time lurker, first time poster, and don’t really expect people to do much more then take this with a bit of salt, believe it if you want, don’t if you don’t. Just trying to get some info out there for anyone who might want to know.

Your post reads like a parody of the Tyranid and Grey Knight releases. Did you get it from 4chan or something?

lord_blackfang wrote:Your post reads like a parody of the Tyranid and Grey Knight releases. Did you get it from 4chan or something?

"Parody" or "Following a noticable trend"?

I'd really like to know if the Tomb Stalker is going to be available as Heavy support. I would think so, and I feel sure of it. There is still that little bit of nagging doubt though.

lord_blackfang wrote:Your post reads like a parody of the Tyranid and Grey Knight releases. Did you get it from 4chan or something?

I don't know this 'Tabitha' rumor looks to be on par with allot of the 'leaks' coming from GW. This looks to be the new format they are using for promoting future product. Just not sure why GW doesn't just write an article in White Dwarf and sell it to the masses. I know I'd be willing to drop $10 on a that crappy magazine if it actually included information like this, and wasn't just a glorified catalog.

IF that stuff is true it all sounds a bit underwhelming to be honest. There have to be more nifty things to make people want to start the army.

I'm still hoping there will be Scarab Swarms that completely disrupt mech, forcing disembarked ground combat all over the place.

I believe its been said before that GW's idea for the Necrons is to keep them a good 'beginners' army. That is an army that is cheaper to put together, easy to build and easy to play.

Some of the more 'nifty' hooks in other armies also tend to require some experience to play or take advantage of.

I really think it fits the flavor of the Necrons to keep them kinda dull lumbering hard to kill robots and these rumors seem to support that.

Azure wrote:Almost done reading the Fall of Damnos and it mentions some of what was just mentioned there.

There is a, what can only be described as, Tomb Stalker like construction that spits Guass beams from its mouth with the ability to split into 3-Tomb Spyder things

A Flayed Lord, and other special Lords to

A Chronomancer Lord, abilities include moving many, many kilometers in a few nanoseconds and projecting an aura of despair and suicide planet wide at times

And some sort of reworked Pariah guys that have a leader for their squad.

It also mentions a second gun that Destroyers were able to mod themselves with and that some of the BFG guns are being given to heavier ground units.

D: how did you get it? I thought it doesn't release till mid April

Also, VERY NICE! Loving these rumors, hearing WBB is not exactly FnP but still a sort of form of it is confusing me BUT hearing it's not just a copy/paste is satisfying.

Can't wait for this release, very eager to buy all the new shinies and reap a great tally for the Nightbringer once more. But this time 5th ed competitive.

Hmmm, more ornate immortals........i'll reserve judgement till i see them. I am one of those people who actually liked that lack of ornamentaion on the models.

Part of the reason i started necrosn was that i liked the thought of an implacable force of ientical warriors. more gun options are defintaly a plus, although i was hoping for a box set of 3 Destroyers TBH, although if they lower the cost per model that coudl work as well.

Might have to save up my pennies and buy another Battleforce before they re-launch, at least that way all my basic warriors will look the same.

Wow, tabitha. Sounds good. Although I agree it does sound like a parody of the GK leaks

I liked the original Immortals. The new ones just got a different gun and longer face.

Maybe we'll get mechanical steeds with exceptionally long faces...

I would think we'll follow a path of Eldar where our "gods" can be invoked - like the Avatar or even greater daemons.

Lower point costs would help dramatically, and the end of phase out sounds great.

With the ability of most armies to have some sort of "medic", I never understood why each unit couldn't just updgrade a model to a "cryptek" - thereby giving the unit the FnP/WBB ability.

Gauss we'll see soon . . .

Uriels_Flame wrote:...Gauss we'll see soon . . .

Love. The. Pun.

I don't know though, upgrading a model to a "Cryptek" as you said kinda smacks of making something a seargent, and then we're just Marines in Metal.

Don't worry about upgrading to a Cyptek. the books directly mentions that outside of the Tomb itself they are powerless.

I'll have to reserve judgment for when the codex drops but if those leaks are true I'm not really all that interested.

Different weapons on Destroyers sound good.

Troop Immortals sounds okay. Although I hope much more there is something in the book that makes Flayed ones very viable and troops (even if it's a special character).

New MC and the MC/Vehicle thing sound...well I'm not too big on the idea of those from the description.

New fast attack unit sounds slick. Hope they look just about the same as Flayed Ones currently but easier to decipher the detail. Although sounds like what Wraiths should be - did we need something new?

Warriors getting new options sounds great.

Phase out being tweaked is not really a huge deal to me. I don't mind it's current incarnation.

A pysker-esque character sounds great. In fact, I'd love to see a dedicated unit type with advanced technology that functions like psychic abilities.

Living Metal changes!1!!!1!! Oh noez.

Cheaper across the board for the army sounds great.

C'tan gone kills it for me. Sure they're underpowered for what they could be but I love fielding them and love the Nightbringer model far too much to shelve him forever.

I don't think they'll get rid of C'tan. Just sounds like they'll be used for Apoc games and sounds like they'll have "mini-c'tan" types.

I'd like them to get rid of rapid fire weapons for all warriors as well. Move it to assault 1. I'd like to be able to move and shoot with the phalanx.

I think they should do something like in DoW. where a Lord can channel the "Essence" of a C'tan. That way you can still use the models and it's not really a C'tan but you still get some benefit.

Samus_aran115 wrote:Although I agree it does sound like a parody of the GK leaks

It is a Mat Ward Codex (Necrons failed the Ward save). So if it sounds like a GK parody, it could still be true

[quote=Buzzsaw

Commander Dante and the 3rd Company battle against the Necron Legions of the Silent King amidst the dusty wastes of Gehenna. For three weeks, neither side can seize the upper hand, with Dante's tactical brilliance stretched to its limits in countering the time-space manipulations of the Silent King. The stalemate is broken only when a Tyranid splinter fleet enters orbit, forcing the two armies to break off hostilities and fight the common foe. The impromptu alliance proves to be the Tyranids' undoing. Following the final battle at Devil's Crag, Dante and the Silent King go their separate ways, both forces now too battleworn to guarantee victory over the other, and, at least for the Blood Angels, the idea of turning on those they had so recently fought alongside, a rather distasteful one.

dbsamurai wrote:[quote=Buzzsaw

Commander Dante and the 3rd Company battle against the Necron Legions of the Silent King amidst the dusty wastes of Gehenna. For three weeks, neither side can seize the upper hand, with Dante's tactical brilliance stretched to its limits in countering the time-space manipulations of the Silent King. The stalemate is broken only when a Tyranid splinter fleet enters orbit, forcing the two armies to break off hostilities and fight the common foe. The impromptu alliance proves to be the Tyranids' undoing. Following the final battle at Devil's Crag, Dante and the Silent King go their separate ways, both forces now too battleworn to guarantee victory over the other, and, at least for the Blood Angels, the idea of turning on those they had so recently fought alongside, a rather distasteful one.

Yea I own a blood angels codex too. But to be fair it could be said more that the blood angels, being such honorable stooges, felt that turning on the very army that had been fighting their same enemy (thus "fighting beside them" so to speak) would make them EVULLLLL like the necrons. There are a lot of ways to interpret the passage (gee, ambiguity for GW? NEVER!) but basically it seems more that it was an apoc alliance, same place same time.

Also to the FNP USR, in a way it does fit with the necron fluff:
"Units with this USR are so battle frenzied that they can shrug off wounds which would kill a veteran space marine! Be it superhuman durability, ALIEN PHYSILOLOGY, or some other device, models with this USR...etc etc" Perhaps the all mighty c'tan said "hey...our warrior take so long to repair that they tend to phase out before units can rejoin the fight...perhaps if we made that more efficient they'd be more effective..."
So now they repair like the T1000 and can keep fighting rather than having to fall over and self repair...

Kevin949 wrote:

dbsamurai wrote:[quote=Buzzsaw

Commander Dante and the 3rd Company battle against the Necron Legions of the Silent King amidst the dusty wastes of Gehenna. For three weeks, neither side can seize the upper hand, with Dante's tactical brilliance stretched to its limits in countering the time-space manipulations of the Silent King. The stalemate is broken only when a Tyranid splinter fleet enters orbit, forcing the two armies to break off hostilities and fight the common foe. The impromptu alliance proves to be the Tyranids' undoing. Following the final battle at Devil's Crag, Dante and the Silent King go their separate ways, both forces now too battleworn to guarantee victory over the other, and, at least for the Blood Angels, the idea of turning on those they had so recently fought alongside, a rather distasteful one.

Yea I own a blood angels codex too. But to be fair it could be said more that the blood angels, being such honorable stooges, felt that turning on the very army that had been fighting their same enemy (thus "fighting beside them" so to speak) would make them EVULLLLL like the necrons. There are a lot of ways to interpret the passage (gee, ambiguity for GW? NEVER!) but basically it seems more that it was an apoc alliance, same place same time.

Also to the FNP USR, in a way it does fit with the necron fluff:
"Units with this USR are so battle frenzied that they can shrug off wounds which would kill a veteran space marine! Be it superhuman durability, ALIEN PHYSILOLOGY, or some other device, models with this USR...etc etc" Perhaps the all mighty c'tan said "hey...our warrior take so long to repair that they tend to phase out before units can rejoin the fight...perhaps if we made that more efficient they'd be more effective..."
So now they repair like the T1000 and can keep fighting rather than having to fall over and self repair...

You forgot to add "...more efficient and weaker..."

Give me WBB roll immediately instead of at the beginning of my turn and I'll be a happy camper. Anything less than that is a downgrade.

You're forgetting that they get WBB from dangerous terrain tests and rending as well (without an orb present). Among other things I'm sure I'm forgetting.

The problem still exists that the CC limitations of FNP and WBB are the same and CC against power weapons is really where crons get murdered. So having FNP just makes them weaker in absorbing gun fire (seriously, you know it's hard for MANY armies to field a lot of stuff that is AP 2/1 or rending) and just as crappy at CC (barring the overhaul of the dex, obviously, and this is all speculation).

Kevin949 wrote:You're forgetting that they get WBB from dangerous terrain tests and rending as well (without an orb present). Among other things I'm sure I'm forgetting.

The problem still exists that the CC limitations of FNP and WBB are the same and CC against power weapons is really where crons get murdered. So having FNP just makes them weaker in absorbing gun fire (seriously, you know it's hard for MANY armies to field a lot of stuff that is AP 2/1 or rending) and just as crappy at CC (barring the overhaul of the dex, obviously, and this is all speculation).

I still think it's a tough call depending on how they would get FNP. If they only get FNP if another Necron is within 6" then I'm leaning towards WBB. If they just get Feel No Pain included in their profile it's too close for me to tell.

Since they seem to be rehashing RT/2nd Ed stuff, how about Necrons gain overwatch?

I've already posted this on Warseer but I'll post it here to

The giant in my mind seems to form a image of the King Kriptor from Supreme Commander 2 if anyone has played that and I can't shake the feeling that it will be stupid

I'm hoping that the C'tan aren't entirely gone and more like they are in DOW, in that Necron lords can take on the essence of certain ones like the NightBringer
It would make for fun games and allow the use of C'tan who couldn't possibly be in the game before, finally have a presence somewhat

Have we heard anything at all on the fluff he is writing for it?
Please let this be the one codex that he doesn't screw up, hes already destroyed my daemonhunters background, don't let him ruin this as well.

I might not play Necrons or want them, but they were a personal favourite of mine of DoW and its left me with a soft spot for them, so i can only hope he will finally get his act together just this one time.

Uriels_Flame wrote:Since they seem to be rehashing RT/2nd Ed stuff, how about Necrons gain overwatch?

What's overwatch?

Scarey Nerd wrote:What's overwatch?

Not shooting in your turn so you can shoot in the enemy's turn.

AlexHolker wrote:

Scarey Nerd wrote:What's overwatch?

Not shooting in your turn so you can shoot in the enemy's turn.

OOOOO That sounds awesome. 24" Str4 AP5 Assault 1 Overwatch? Yes please.

I am hoping against blinged immortals. I like the models the way they are, but wouldn't mind seeing them in plastic (obviously) and maybe just slightly scaled up, so they are noticeably larger then warriors. That's it, though.

Samus_aran115 wrote:Wow, tabitha. Sounds good. Although I agree it does sound like a parody of the GK leaks

Time Frame is also way off. There is already an army scheduled for 4th quarter and it's not Necrons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kroothawk wrote:

Samus_aran115 wrote:Although I agree it does sound like a parody of the GK leaks

It is a Mat Ward Codex (Necrons failed the Ward save). So if it sounds like a GK parody, it could still be true

Don't make fun of M. Night "The Butcher of Bagdad", "Ding Dong" Ward. It will upset him.

Worglock wrote:Time Frame is also way off. There is already an army scheduled for 4th quarter and it's not Necrons.

What army? And what's your reasoning?

I did say that I wasn’t sure that it was an October release, rather that I was guessing at an October release. Most of the ‘Cron stuff has been pretty done for a while now and ready to go.

I will say the stuff I know I learned a while ago, so there is a possibility some of it has already changed. Personally I actually hope the artillery tank thing goes the way of the GK jet bikes and they include long range pie plate chucking as part of a special characters ability, ala Master of Ordnance. I don’t see that happening though, since a plastic tank costs more then a little metal guy. But one can hope.

Anyway when I said the Ctan were gone, I didn’t mean out of the fluff (though I haven’t seen any of the fluff for the new codex, so I honestly don’t know, but don’t expect it). I meant that you won’t be fielding a star god, at least not in a normal game. But like I said, they still do influence your forces, if you so chose. Kinda like Chaos, though no marks or anything like that.

Anyway, Salt.

Worglock wrote:

Samus_aran115 wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kroothawk wrote:

Samus_aran115 wrote:Although I agree it does sound like a parody of the GK leaks

It is a Mat Ward Codex (Necrons failed the Ward save). So if it sounds like a GK parody, it could still be true

Don't make fun of M. Night "The Butcher of Bagdad", "Ding Dong" Ward. It will upset him.

Hi Matt, everyone wants you to stop destroying our beloved hobby. Can you have someone proofread your writing from now on? Thanks.

AlexHolker wrote:

Worglock wrote:Time Frame is also way off. There is already an army scheduled for 4th quarter and it's not Necrons.

What army? And what's your reasoning?

He's got no reasoning or solid confirmation. There's been rumors, however, that Necrons have been pushed back and Tau moved up to fill that slot.

So let me get this straight, are the rumours that Necrons (The army most in need of an update) are being pushed back because M. Night Ward can't get the fluff right?

...Yay.

Scarey Nerd wrote:So let me get this straight, are the rumours that Necrons (The army most in need of an update) are being pushed back because M. Night Ward can't get the fluff right?

...Yay.

Fluff and/or rules mechanics both, yes. Supposedly also so that they can do a big multi-wave in a short period launch ala the Dark Eldar.


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And for that matter: Tau are just as much in need of an update as Necrons. The "Empire" book didn't fix any of the big issues, just added some bandaids that broke come 5th.

Hmm... I only really like two armies, which are coincidentally the two oldest armies: Necrons and Sisters. GW are killing my soul, here...

I've read the Tau Codex, it needs updating and so do the models, but really? Do they need it THAT much? 5th edition mech rules are killing my robot hordes (Who are meant to have the best technology in the galaxy), and now that sweeping advance is so very prevalent, my army's biggest selling point - We'll Be Back - just isn't that effective, seeing as I play primarily against CC armies. Yes, I'm whining a bit, yes, these problems are personal to me, but I know other people have the same issues and GW have ignored it for years. Give my undead Terminators some love, please!

[/rant]

Kanluwen wrote:

AlexHolker wrote:

Worglock wrote:Time Frame is also way off. There is already an army scheduled for 4th quarter and it's not Necrons.

What army? And what's your reasoning?

He's got no reasoning or solid confirmation. There's been rumors, however, that Necrons have been pushed back and Tau moved up to fill that slot.

Didn't those rumors get debunked by several other, rumor people? I believe I read it in the Tau and This thread that several of those people had not heard anything about Necrons getting pushed back at all. We have several conflicting rumors.

I believe that Necrons need a Codex more than Tau as well. Weather Tau Empire was a "Band-aid" or not, Necrons have been out of an update far longer, and direly need it.

Scarey Nerd wrote:Hmm... I only really like two armies, which are coincidentally the two oldest armies: Necrons and Sisters. GW are killing my soul, here...

Do you want it rushed simply because "they're the oldest", or do you want it done right?

Sisters are in the process of being done. Phil Kelly is supposedly writing the book, and Jes Goodwin has flatout stated he's working on the models.

I've read the Tau Codex, it needs updating and so do the models, but really? Do they need it THAT much? 5th edition mech rules are killing my robot hordes (Who are meant to have the best technology in the galaxy), and now that sweeping advance is so very prevalent, my army's biggest selling point - We'll Be Back - just isn't that effective, seeing as I play primarily against CC armies. Yes, I'm whining a bit, yes, these problems are personal to me, but I know other people have the same issues and GW have ignored it for years. Give my undead Terminators some love, please!
[/rant]

It's not a question of "do they need it". It's a question of "what can be released in this release slot if Necrons cannot". Tau fit that slot, because very little actually has to be done for their range and book.

The models Tau are supposed to be getting are some of the ones in most dire need of an update.
Things like:
-New Crisis Suits, with all options in plastic. Supposedly, this includes options for Commander Farsight.
-New Broadsides, all plastic.
-New Pathfinders, done in plastic with all options.
-Kroot recut sprues to include Kroothounds/Krootoxes in the Kroot box.
-Demiurg(the 'new allied race' for the Tau)



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sasori wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

AlexHolker wrote:

Worglock wrote:Time Frame is also way off. There is already an army scheduled for 4th quarter and it's not Necrons.

What army? And what's your reasoning?

He's got no reasoning or solid confirmation. There's been rumors, however, that Necrons have been pushed back and Tau moved up to fill that slot.

Didn't those rumors get debunked by several other, rumor people? I believe I read it in the Tau and This thread that several of those people had not heard anything about Necrons getting pushed back at all. We have several conflicting rumors.

Several conflicting rumors? No way!

Like I said. He's got no reasoning or solid confirmation: just rumors that Necrons have been pushed back, and Tau moved up to fill the slot. That's got no real confirmation either. It's just one of those "I've heard it from a friend of a friend"--and if Ward really has been called to task because of the outcry about things like the Dreadknight, ala how Goto was dropped from the Black Library, then it's quite likely they'd push the Necrons back a bit to make sure things are up to snuff.

I believe that Necrons need a Codex more than Tau as well. Whether Tau Empire was a "Band-aid" or not, Necrons have been out of an update far longer, and direly need it.

And again: it's not a question of "need". It's a question of "what can fill this release slot". Necrons were, no matter how long they took doing it, going to need a lengthier design process than most codices would have. They were also going to require a bit more work on the modeling front as well. If GW thinks that Tau would fill the slot better, then GW would release the Tau.

I mean look at the rumors we're seeing of models coming out for the Necrons book. We're looking at at least four new plastic kits based off the old line(Destroyers being redone, Tomb Spyders, Immortals, and Wraiths), several entirely new units done in plastic or metal, etc.

I mean look at the rumors we're seeing of models coming out for the Necrons book. We're looking at at least four new plastic kits based off the old line(Destroyers being redone, Tomb Spyders, Immortals, and Wraiths), several entirely new units done in plastic or metal, etc.

I can't see a problem here. I remember a number of active Dakka posters claiming that the Dark Eldar would get some kind of an unforeseen megawave -- All their codex units in one big splash. It's pretty much a year from now exactly when these people promised us pictures of the new stuff within a month and all the models by fall. I can use the search and find myself arguing that a wave like that isn't possible for GW and people tried to shoot me down and told me to just wait and see.

The pictures came 4 months later than promised and the army release wasn't anything spectacular. It took a long while to get any beasts released and we're still all the flyers, Venom, Haemonculi, Wracks, Talos/engine and Scourges short on having models to play the army with. Basically the army is in an equally terrible shape still as Tyranids (lacking Tervigons, T-Fexes) model wise except that the quality on the models that do exist is good (almost) all-around.

So now you're saying what exactly? That Necrons can't be released before Tau because they will need a lot of new kits? Why would GW care about that when they never have in the past? Necrons will come with four new plastic boxes like almost every other army and then left to hang with three/four or even five absolutely integral units not having models (or old models) for a year or more. That's the standard, not the exception. I expect nothing else.

Therion wrote:

I mean look at the rumors we're seeing of models coming out for the Necrons book. We're looking at at least four new plastic kits based off the old line(Destroyers being redone, Tomb Spyders, Immortals, and Wraiths), several entirely new units done in plastic or metal, etc.

I can't see a problem here. I remember a number of active Dakka posters claiming that the Dark Eldar would get some kind of an unforeseen megawave -- All their codex units in one big splash. It's pretty much a year from now exactly when these people promised us pictures of the new stuff within a month and all the models by fall. I can use the search and find myself arguing that a wave like that isn't possible for GW and people tried to shoot me down and told me to just wait and see.

I didn't say it was a problem. I was using it as an example of how much work has been going into the Necrons versus what we'd be seeing from the Tau.

The pictures came 4 months later than promised and the army release wasn't anything spectacular. It took a long while to get any beasts released and we're still all the flyers, Venom, Haemonculi, Wracks, Talos/engine and Scourges short on having models to play the army with. Basically the army is in an equally terrible shape still as Tyranids (lacking Tervigons, T-Fexes) model wise except that the quality on the models that do exist is good (almost) all-around.

Well that and the fact that we've got confirmation of the Haemonculi, Wracks, Talos/Engine and Scourges coming out in May.

So now you're saying what exactly? That Necrons can't be released before Tau because they will need a lot of new kits? Why would GW care about that when they never have in the past? Necrons will come with four new plastic boxes like almost every other army and then left to hang with three/four or even five absolutely integral units not having models (or old models) for a year or more. That's the standard, not the exception. I expect nothing else.

Please, actually read. I'm not saying that "Necrons can't be released before Tau because they will need a lot of new kits". I'm saying that if Necrons are being delayed, then they'll fit what they can into that slot based on the design schedule. Right now, Tau are the easiest fit for this short of notice. They've had the Pathfinders done for a long time, the can scan in FW's suits and the Kroothounds/Krootoxes, and the Demiurg shouldn't be too hard for them to do on short notice.

Supposedly the real reason we're seeing Necrons delayed is because of the book's fluff contents as a reactionary measure based upon how many fans are reacting to the Grey Knights' fluff. But people are acting as though it's a bad thing that Matt Ward might be forced to actually redo the background and make it far less stupidly over the top. It's really not a bad thing if he gets called to answer for his feth-ups now before he completely screws up the background irreparably.

Please, actually read. I'm not saying that "Necrons can't be released before Tau because they will need a lot of new kits". I'm saying that if Necrons are being delayed, then they'll fit what they can into that slot based on the design schedule. Right now, Tau are the easiest fit for this short of notice. They've had the Pathfinders done for a long time, the can scan in FW's suits and the Kroothounds/Krootoxes, and the Demiurg shouldn't be too hard for them to do on short notice.

Supposedly the real reason we're seeing Necrons delayed is because of the book's fluff contents as a reactionary measure based upon how many fans are reacting to the Grey Knights' fluff. But people are acting as though it's a bad thing that Matt Ward might be forced to actually redo the background and make it far less stupidly over the top. It's really not a bad thing if he gets called to answer for his feth-ups now before he completely screws up the background irreparably.

That's a lot of hypothesis. We don't know if Necrons are being delayed or not so I find it unnecessary to endlessly speculate on the possible motives behind something that may or may not happen at all. Additionally, I disagree on a number of things you like to imagine as facts. I think Tau need atleast an equal amount of work as the Necrons. If anything the old Necron models are vastly superior to the Tau models. Secondly, as an avid GW hobbyist and gamer for 20 years now I see absolutely no problems whatsoever in Matt Ward's work. I can't see how he has even affected the background by any significant measure not to mention somehow 'screwing it up' irreparably. In game terms even his worst army book to date, the Daemons of Chaos, isn't the most imbalanced GW army publication to date.

Well that and the fact that we've got confirmation of the Haemonculi, Wracks, Talos/Engine and Scourges coming out in May.

Whether they come in May or not (while the most important transport in the book and both the flyers still wouldn't have models) is irrelevant because the people in the know said all Dark Eldar models would be released as a single release together with the Codex: DE. That turned out to be a blatant lie.

Therion wrote:

Please, actually read. I'm not saying that "Necrons can't be released before Tau because they will need a lot of new kits". I'm saying that if Necrons are being delayed, then they'll fit what they can into that slot based on the design schedule. Right now, Tau are the easiest fit for this short of notice. They've had the Pathfinders done for a long time, the can scan in FW's suits and the Kroothounds/Krootoxes, and the Demiurg shouldn't be too hard for them to do on short notice.

Supposedly the real reason we're seeing Necrons delayed is because of the book's fluff contents as a reactionary measure based upon how many fans are reacting to the Grey Knights' fluff. But people are acting as though it's a bad thing that Matt Ward might be forced to actually redo the background and make it far less stupidly over the top. It's really not a bad thing if he gets called to answer for his feth-ups now before he completely screws up the background irreparably.

That's a lot of hypothesis.

Of course it's hypothesis. That's all we really ever have to go on with GW until we get the Incoming! email/articles.

We don't know if Necrons are being delayed or not so I find it unnecessary to endlessly speculate on the possible motives behind something that may or may not happen at all. Additionally, I disagree on a number of things you like to imagine as facts.

I haven't said anything was "fact". I'm going off a logical chain of conclusions. However, if you want some 'facts': Goodwin has flatout said that he wants to give Eldar the same treatment he gave Dark Eldar. But he won't be doing that for awhile, as he wants to do the Sisters of Battle first. And Goodwin gets to throw quite a bit of weight around when it comes to what he wants to do and how it fits into the schedule.

Tau, however, have no such backing from anyone with any real weight within the studio.

I think Tau need atleast an equal amount of work as the Necrons. If anything the old Necron models are vastly superior to the Tau models.

In terms of what? The Fire Warriors are fine, as are the Devilfish chassis vehicles and the Stealth Suits. The only things that really needed to be done are easy for them to do. They've already shown that they can scan in vehicles (Piranha and Skyray), and Forge World's XV-8 suits are getting to be old at this point--but they've been, by all accounts, damned good sellers. It doesn't hurt GW any to pull the mold layouts from FW and tool up a plastic mold for them.

Secondly, as an avid GW hobbyist and gamer for 20 years now I see absolutely no problems whatsoever in Matt Ward's work. I can't see how he has even affected the background by any significant measure not to mention somehow 'screwing it up' irreparably.

Grey Knights becoming just another Space Marine Chapter. Jokaero in the Grey Knights book. Dreadknight. Stormraven.
Should I go on?

In game terms even his worst army book to date, the Daemons of Chaos, isn't the most imbalanced GW army publication to date.

Because it's old. The Blood Angels book and seemingly the Grey Knights book are far worse than the Daemons book was.

I haven't said anything was "fact". I'm going off a logical chain of conclusions. However, if you want some 'facts': Goodwin has flatout said that he wants to give Eldar the same treatment he gave Dark Eldar. But he won't be doing that for awhile, as he wants to do the Sisters of Battle first. And Goodwin gets to throw quite a bit of weight around when it comes to what he wants to do and how it fits into the schedule.

The one good thing about the 'Dark Eldar treatment' is Goodwin doing the models instead of one of the untalented never-beens at the studio who should've retired years ago from the business. Gaming wise the Dark Eldar could be a lot better, and release wise they should've got more models already.

In terms of what? The Fire Warriors are fine, as are the Devilfish chassis vehicles and the Stealth Suits. The only things that really needed to be done are easy for them to do. They've already shown that they can scan in vehicles (Piranha and Skyray), and Forge World's XV-8 suits are getting to be old at this point--but they've been, by all accounts, damned good sellers. It doesn't hurt GW any to pull the mold layouts from FW and tool up a plastic mold for them.

Fire Warriors are decent and the Piranha is good aswell. Fire Warriors could do with a new sprue though with more bitz and some heavy/special weapons. All types of battlesuits from the special characters on down to Crisis Suits, Stealth Suits and Broadsides are absolutely awful. The Devilfish chassis tanks leave a lot to be desired, especially the Skyray and the Hammerhead, but they probably won't be redone unfortunately. Vespid are awful and the Kroot extras like the Ox are awful. Tau also need a large amount of new units to make up for the lack of diversity in the codex, and all of the new units need new models.

Like I said, Necrons are in a better situation. The Monolith in quality is the equal of the Tau tanks, but the Warriors, Immortals, lords, C'tan and Flayed Ones are all excellent sculpts. The Destroyers could be better but they're still better then Tau Battlesuits which I find utterly laughable both in concept and execution. Scarabs work. Pariahs are bad. What the Necrons need are new units to make up for the lack of diversity and lack of units in the codex, and all of the new units need new models.

Grey Knights becoming just another Space Marine Chapter. Jokaero in the Grey Knights book. Dreadknight. Stormraven.

Grey Knights get a lot of Inquisition troops into their armies with the henchman units. The henchman unit can be customised to dozens of different configurations and allows for nearly infinite conversion opportunities for many Imperial sub-groups. As far as the Dreadknight is concerned I see no problems with it, but even if one would dislike the concept behind it I can't really imagine that Matt Ward would be solely responsible for it. He isn't an artist or a sculptor. He writes rules and backgrounds and even if he came up with the idea that there should be a Grey Knight specific walker in the army there's an entire team responsible for what it turned out to be. Personally I think it's fine and fits with the new style of 40K codex design. Every book is getting something completely new and unforeseen instead of the boring same old books with rehashed fluff, statlines and points costs. Some of this new stuff gets models right away and some of it doesn't.

I'm sure you've noticed 40K has been different all edition. We get 'new' units and creatures with every army book release now. People complained that all Space Marine army books were the same and now all of them are quite different with some unique units and playstyles while IG now has legal access to most of the Forgeworld tank arsenal. Even the Xenos books get units that we couldn't have expected before (multiple new Tyranid monsters, new DE transports and flyers). In my opinion 40K has never been better and the longer it stays like this the better.

Should I go on?

No, please don't.

Therion wrote:

Please, actually read. I'm not saying that "Necrons can't be released before Tau because they will need a lot of new kits". I'm saying that if Necrons are being delayed, then they'll fit what they can into that slot based on the design schedule. Right now, Tau are the easiest fit for this short of notice. They've had the Pathfinders done for a long time, the can scan in FW's suits and the Kroothounds/Krootoxes, and the Demiurg shouldn't be too hard for them to do on short notice.

Supposedly the real reason we're seeing Necrons delayed is because of the book's fluff contents as a reactionary measure based upon how many fans are reacting to the Grey Knights' fluff. But people are acting as though it's a bad thing that Matt Ward might be forced to actually redo the background and make it far less stupidly over the top. It's really not a bad thing if he gets called to answer for his feth-ups now before he completely screws up the background irreparably.

That's a lot of hypothesis. We don't know if Necrons are being delayed or not so I find it unnecessary to endlessly speculate on the possible motives behind something that may or may not happen at all. Additionally, I disagree on a number of things you like to imagine as facts. I think Tau need atleast an equal amount of work as the Necrons. If anything the old Necron models are vastly superior to the Tau models. Secondly, as an avid GW hobbyist and gamer for 20 years now I see absolutely no problems whatsoever in Matt Ward's work. I can't see how he has even affected the background by any significant measure not to mention somehow 'screwing it up' irreparably. In game terms even his worst army book to date, the Daemons of Chaos, isn't the most imbalanced GW army publication to date.

Well that and the fact that we've got confirmation of the Haemonculi, Wracks, Talos/Engine and Scourges coming out in May.

Whether they come in May or not (while the most important transport in the book and both the flyers still wouldn't have models) is irrelevant because the people in the know said all Dark Eldar models would be released as a single release together with the Codex: DE. That turned out to be a blatant lie.

What confuses me is that, if you are the same Therion I remember, the one who years ago used VC to win in 6th ed when people were sure that VC were noncompetitive in 6th ed, then I am utterly dumbfounded how you can even say that. Unless you are referring to the 40k Demons book, but I was not aware Ward did that one. I know only that he is responsible for the festering pile of unmitigable brokenness that is the WHFB Chaos Demons army. Nearly every piece in the list is under costed and over powered, regardless of 7th or 8th edition. 8th lowered the power of it's nearest competitors (VC) by nerfing them to near oblivion, and evening out DE (their next closest competitors) yet left Demons nearly unchanged in strength.

On the topic of waiting for models: regardless of release, Tau or Necrons, we can be assured that the models will not all be ready at the time of release. For a company that supposedly makes their money one models, they sure seem to not like making them.

What confuses me is that, if you are the same Therion I remember, the one who years ago used VC to win in 6th ed when people were sure that VC were noncompetitive in 6th ed, then I am utterly dumbfounded how you can even say that. Unless you are referring to the 40k Demons book, but I was not aware Ward did that one. I know only that he is responsible for the festering pile of unmitigable brokenness that is the WHFB Chaos Demons army. Nearly every piece in the list is under costed and over powered, regardless of 7th or 8th edition. 8th lowered the power of it's nearest competitors (VC) by nerfing them to near oblivion, and evening out DE (their next closest competitors) yet left Demons nearly unchanged in strength.

On the topic of waiting for models: regardless of release, Tau or Necrons, we can be assured that the models will not all be ready at the time of release. For a company that supposedly makes their money one models, they sure seem to not like making them.

I'm pretty sure I'm the same Therion you're thinking about. I made no claims about the Daemons of Chaos not being imbalanced. I said it wasn't the most imbalanced GW book to date. That spot undoubtedly belongs to Pete Haines' Chaos Space Marines; A Codex that was so flexible, all-encompassing and powerful that the knee-jerk reaction to the opposite direction inevitably lead to such awesome creations of imagination and excellence as Codex Dark Angels and the current Chaos Space Marines.

About the models you're absolutely spot on.

Therion wrote:

I haven't said anything was "fact". I'm going off a logical chain of conclusions. However, if you want some 'facts': Goodwin has flatout said that he wants to give Eldar the same treatment he gave Dark Eldar. But he won't be doing that for awhile, as he wants to do the Sisters of Battle first. And Goodwin gets to throw quite a bit of weight around when it comes to what he wants to do and how it fits into the schedule.

The one good thing about the 'Dark Eldar treatment' is Goodwin doing the models instead of one of the untalented never-beens at the studio who should've retired years ago from the business. Gaming wise the Dark Eldar could be a lot better, and release wise they should've got more models already.

Gaming wise they could have been done far, far better. But that's what you get with Phil Kelly writing your book instead of Matt Ward
Release wise I think they're doing okay. I mean the army launched on what, 5th of October 2010? We're seeing the final release wave coming in the next few months, and the line's finished out with that.

That entire release timeframe is less than what we saw between the initial release and then the second wave of Blood Angels. Some of the releases could be better, no doubt. But for an entirely redesigned range, there's a surprisingly low amount of 'duds'.

In terms of what? The Fire Warriors are fine, as are the Devilfish chassis vehicles and the Stealth Suits. The only things that really needed to be done are easy for them to do. They've already shown that they can scan in vehicles (Piranha and Skyray), and Forge World's XV-8 suits are getting to be old at this point--but they've been, by all accounts, damned good sellers. It doesn't hurt GW any to pull the mold layouts from FW and tool up a plastic mold for them.

Fire Warriors are decent and the Piranha is good aswell. Fire Warriors could do with a new sprue though with more bitz and some heavy/special weapons. All types of battlesuits from the special characters on down to Crisis Suits, Stealth Suits and Broadsides are absolutely awful.

Disagree on Stealth Suits. They don't look as good as the original metals, but they're definitely not "absolutely awful". Vehemently disagree on "Fire Warriors could use some heavy/special weapons". Part of what makes the Tau unique is that they don't put special weapons in their squads like the other races(aside from Necrons) do. They rely on specialist units operating in tandem with the rest. Maybe special weapons drones could work though.

The Devilfish chassis tanks leave a lot to be desired, especially the Skyray and the Hammerhead, but they probably won't be redone unfortunately. Vespid are awful and the Kroot extras like the Ox are awful. Tau also need a large amount of new units to make up for the lack of diversity in the codex, and all of the new units need new models.

Vespid definitely are awful, no doubt. The tanks I don't see many issues with.

Like I said, Necrons are in a better situation. The Monolith in quality is the equal of the Tau tanks, but the Warriors, Immortals, lords, C'tan and Flayed Ones are all excellent sculpts. The Destroyers could be better but they're still better then Tau Battlesuits which I find utterly laughable both in concept and execution. Scarabs work. Pariahs are bad. What the Necrons need are new units to make up for the lack of diversity and lack of units in the codex, and all of the new units need new models.

Agreed. But they're supposedly redoing a large amount of the Necron range, not simply because "new is better!" but more to go along with the idea of "New is better, but so is a theme change".

Grey Knights becoming just another Space Marine Chapter. Jokaero in the Grey Knights book. Dreadknight. Stormraven.

Grey Knights get a lot of Inquisition troops into their armies with the henchman units. The henchman unit can be customised to dozens of different configurations and allows for nearly infinite conversion opportunities for many Imperial sub-groups. As far as the Dreadknight is concerned I see no problems with it, but even if one would dislike the concept behind it I can't really imagine that Matt Ward would be solely responsible for it. He isn't an artist or a sculptor.

Supposedly he is an artist, actually. More on the Dreadknight in a minute though...

He writes rules and backgrounds and even if he came up with the idea that there should be a Grey Knight specific walker in the army there's an entire team responsible for what it turned out to be.

The "head writer" on a book has, by all accounts, final veto power on designs.

Personally I think it's fine and fits with the new style of 40K codex design. Every book is getting something completely new and unforeseen instead of the boring same old books with rehashed fluff, statlines and points costs. Some of this new stuff gets models right away and some of it doesn't.

The background of it isn't what irks myself or many others about the Dreadknight. It's the model execution. Nothing about it links it to the Imperium. When you look at it, if there wasn't a Grey Knight sitting in it--there's no way in hell you'd immediately link it to the Imperium.

I'm sure you've noticed 40K has been different all edition. We get 'new' units and creatures with every army book release now. People complained that all Space Marine army books were the same and now all of them are quite different with some unique units and playstyles while IG now has legal access to most of the Forgeworld tank arsenal.

Several of those tanks, however, had been in before the 3rd edition IG book.

Even the Xenos books get units that we couldn't have expected before (multiple new Tyranid monsters, new DE transports and flyers). In my opinion 40K has never been better and the longer it stays like this the better.

What "new DE transports" were there? The Venom has been in 40k's background for a long time. The only place, however, it was existing was within the IA Harlequin list. The flyers look like they're just a rename and 'reimagination' of the FW flyers that the Dark Eldar had.

Should I go on?

No, please don't.

But I had so many more...

Can I make a motion to change the thread's name to "Matt Ward hate - 2011"?

Therion wrote:

What confuses me is that, if you are the same Therion I remember, the one who years ago used VC to win in 6th ed when people were sure that VC were noncompetitive in 6th ed, then I am utterly dumbfounded how you can even say that. Unless you are referring to the 40k Demons book, but I was not aware Ward did that one. I know only that he is responsible for the festering pile of unmitigable brokenness that is the WHFB Chaos Demons army. Nearly every piece in the list is under costed and over powered, regardless of 7th or 8th edition. 8th lowered the power of it's nearest competitors (VC) by nerfing them to near oblivion, and evening out DE (their next closest competitors) yet left Demons nearly unchanged in strength.

On the topic of waiting for models: regardless of release, Tau or Necrons, we can be assured that the models will not all be ready at the time of release. For a company that supposedly makes their money one models, they sure seem to not like making them.

I'm pretty sure I'm the same Therion you're thinking about. I made no claims about the Daemons of Chaos not being imbalanced. I said it wasn't the most imbalanced GW book to date. That spot undoubtedly belongs to Pete Haines' Chaos Space Marines; A Codex that was so flexible, all-encompassing and powerful that the knee-jerk reaction to the opposite direction inevitably lead to such awesome creations of imagination and excellence as Codex Dark Angels and the current Chaos Space Marines.

About the models you're absolutely spot on.

Going to have to disagree about the status of C: CSM for 3rd ed. Naturally one can't disagree about the Iron Warriors, given the GT year that saw the top ten armies as:

IW
IW
Seer Council Eldar
IW
IW
IW
IW
Seer Council Eldar
Marines
IW

But other than that army, I saw no other amazing uber combos that could not be stopped. Everything else was good, solid, and playable. Except 1K Sons, of course, but still.

WHFB Demons have broken builds regardless of the god or combination. Every build of Demons is powerful, and you would be hard pressed to make a list that wasn't. Demons upset the powerbalance of the game in an intense and radical way. It seems more forgiveable to me to make a mistake for one list combo that's broken and excuse it as an oversight than to allow an entire army book whose every attempt at list construction is unrealisticly founded, and truly call into question if GW even playtests before release!

But other than that army, I saw no other amazing uber combos that could not be stopped. Everything else was good, solid, and playable. Except 1K Sons, of course, but still.

Siren Daemon Prince with 7 minor powers couldn't be killed at all. No model like this has never before and never since existed in 40K or FB. I went undefeated for ages with CSM. Battlecannons were overpowered for what they could do and daemonic possession combined with the hull down rules was ridiculous. The Glaive Khorne DP with speed or the the infiltrating speed Lieutenants with S6 power weapons weren't much friendlier. Additionally the veteran skills could be abused to make entirely tank hunting 6 havoc squad armies or entirely infiltrating armies. Bloodletters were even better than what Grey Knights are now and daemonbombs involving Daemonettes worked as well. It wasn't just the IW that were imbalanced. I guess the codex was loved and hated in equal measure as I've never seen any army be as popular as CSM was back then.

Some remarks:

1.) Releases rarely get pushed back, it is the rumours about them that change.
2.) Releases never get pushed back because GW suddenly finds out that Mat Ward is not that good in writing background
3.) Mat Ward's Daemons of Chaos army book still has a special position, as it single handedly and ultimately broke competitive play in 7th edition. Slightly remedied in 8th edition, because lucky dice rolls in magic make competitive play generally difficult to impossible.
4.) There are rumours about 3 armies being close to a release: Necrons, Tau and Sororitas. There have been rumours about all of them, but not much confirmation or backup, so treat all of them with caution. BTW Warseer moderator Darnok is certain that Sororitas will see a release this year.
5.) I am not aware of rumour posters having suggested a Dark Eldar mega release, at least not since January 2010. Actually, Harry and others were quite certain of a big wave with the release, a minor wave 1.5 (which is the March release) and a major second wave, which now is confirmed for June (not May), consistent with what Jes Goodwin said about 90% of units getting a model until June.

4.) I am not aware of rumour posters having suggested a Dark Eldar mega release, at least not since January 2010. Actually, Harry and others were quite certain of a big wave with the release, a minor wave 1.5 (which is the March release) and a major second wave, which now is confirmed for June (not May), consistent with what Jes Goodwin said about 90% of units getting a model until June.

Quite certain eh? Please do me a favour and link me to a post that is dated to summer/spring 2010, meaning prior to the actual DE release, where you or anyone else on Dakka says what you just described.

I've also heard of Tyranid 2nd wave releases happening sometime this year as well, if that is so, then 40k is really getting some love from GW, because they have been already releasing alot of new 40k models this year, and the fact we still have many more to come is kinda suprising.

Therion wrote:

4.) I am not aware of rumour posters having suggested a Dark Eldar mega release, at least not since January 2010. Actually, Harry and others were quite certain of a big wave with the release, a minor wave 1.5 (which is the March release) and a major second wave, which now is confirmed for June (not May), consistent with what Jes Goodwin said about 90% of units getting a model until June.

Quite certain eh? Please do me a favour and link me to a post that is dated to summer/spring 2010, meaning prior to the actual DE release, where you or anyone else on Dakka says what you just described.

Sure:
Quick search finds this rumour summary on 31st August by me including that:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/314450.page
But at that time I knew it for quite some time. I will do some search and post it here.
Edit: Bell of Lost Souls speaks of the correct 1st wave on July 31st:
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2010/07/40k-rumors-dark-eldar-1st-wave-tidbits.html

Therion wrote:The pictures came 4 months later than promised and the army release wasn't anything spectacular..

1.) The army release WAS spectacular, read the threads when the first pics were shown.
2.) Who exactly promised pics 4 months early? GW doesn't do such things for quite some time.

Quick search finds this rumour summary on 31st August by me including that

August is late. That's practically autumn. I was promised pictures from the Studio 'within a month' during April of 2010 by Waaagh Gonads for example.

The army release WAS spectacular, read the threads when the first pics were shown.

Read the threads? What the heck do you mean? You mean it was spectacular because people thought the models are good? To me it didn't live up to the hype since about half of the units didn't get models.

Who exactly promised pics 4 months early? GW doesn't do such things for quite some time.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/291960.page

I see guys like BrassScorpion, Erasoketa right there and on the next page and onwards many others including Mannahnin trying to ridicule my assumption that we'll get the Dark Eldar but in multiple waves instead of in one huge release. I was labeled 'a denier' and my opinions 'unwarranted pessimism'. Hilarious, really.

Difficult to find thread that old, but in the thread you linked to, I already mentioned the second wave (29th April):
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/120/291960.page

Kroothawk wrote:Just because some people are uncertain about this:

1.) It is confirmed that the whole range of DE miniatures will get new models.
2.) Jes was sculpting for the last 3 years or so to achieve this. He got all the time he needed, so this is not comparable to the BA release.
3.) Most models are ready, the Codex at the printers.
4.) Some people have seen them and say that they are awesome.
5.) Not all are ready, some will be released in a second wave, which usually is more than 6 months later.
6.) If you do lists of units, leave room for new units, as all new Codices feature new stuff.

And I hope, April is spring enough for you

That's a good find and validates your credibility as a rumour guy a great deal. The 15 other guys in the thread arguing against me though, not so much.

Therion wrote:That's a good find and validates your credibility as a rumour guy a great deal. The 15 other guys in the thread arguing against me though, not so much.

He's not a rumour guy.

Kroothawk is...The Compiler.

*cue dramatic music*

"When there's information to be found...he finds it..."

Kanluwen wrote:He's not a rumour guy.
Kroothawk is...The Compiler.
*cue dramatic music*
"When there's information to be found...he finds it..."

Actually, I am also a rumour guy (e.g. first pics of Vostroyans, Shadowsun, Wood Elf Eagle, Manor House, Oval base for Dreadknight), and not only for non-GW products.
But most of the time, you see me compiling. You are the guy who misreads them (Dark Eldar second wave in May )

Kroothawk wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:He's not a rumour guy.
Kroothawk is...The Compiler.
*cue dramatic music*
"When there's information to be found...he finds it..."

Actually, I am also a rumour guy (e.g. first pics of Vostroyans, Shadowsun, Wood Elf Eagle, Manor House, Oval base for Dreadknight), and not only for non-GW products.
But most of the time, you see me compiling. You are the guy who misreads them (Dark Eldar second wave in May )

Pft. I said May because I wanted May.

And everyone knows that Games Workshop listens to me. It's why the Australians have to pay so much. Because HBMC is mean to me here

And don't deny The Compiler. You could be like The Terminator, but with hotlinked images and quotes!

QUOTES, KROOTHAWK!

Kanluwen wrote:

Therion wrote:That's a good find and validates your credibility as a rumour guy a great deal. The 15 other guys in the thread arguing against me though, not so much.

He's not a rumour guy.

Kroothawk is...The Compiler.

*cue dramatic music*

"When there's information to be found...he finds it..."

"How did you know the Necron Lord release would be a combination of a hip-hop theme combined with transformers?"

"It's not a gift... it's a curse."

Kroothawk is... The Compiler! Season 1 starts June 1st! Set your Tivos!

I have to wonder if we'll ever see anything coming of this Tau piece:


Also:
Ouze, I have bookmarked that quote. I am quoting you on that Necron Lord combination of hip-hop and Transformers if it happens.

Kanluwen wrote:You could be like The Terminator, but with hotlinked images and quotes!

If I were the Terminator, I would have been send from the future to kill Mat Ward and save the future of Games Workshop
But I am more #5 (movie "Short Circuit")

There won’t be any armies released in early/mid summer because with DE wave 2.0 followed by the summer expansion, and with several armies getting new units then, Games Workshop wants customers buying those new boxes, not buying a new army. So that means that the next release will be in the fall (September/October. Maybe August, but I doubt it.)

Despite how much I personally want witch hunters, the sisters are not the next army. I wouldn’t expect them before 2012 personally, no matter how awesome it would be.

Necrons are very likely next just because they are pretty much done. I can’t see why they would hold off on their release past October, and wouldn’t be surprised at an incoming e-mail some time mid summer, after the expansion. As far as Tau, they will be released at the beginning of summer 2012, just before 6th edition. Sort of like Eldar, where they were a 4th edition army built for 5th edition.

Kroothawk wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:You could be like The Terminator, but with hotlinked images and quotes!

If I were the Terminator, I would have been send from the future to kill Mat Ward and save the future of Games Workshop
But I am more #5

I didn't say you'd be a good Terminator, Kroothawk.

Tabitha wrote:There won’t be any armies released in early/mid summer because that’s when the expansion is dropping, and with several armies getting new units then, Games Workshop wants customers buying those new boxes, not buying a new army. So that means that the next release will be in the fall (September/October. Maybe August, but I doubt it.)

Despite how much I personally want witch hunters, the sisters are not the next army. I wouldn’t expect them before 2012 personally, no matter how awesome it would be.

Necrons are very likely next just because they are pretty much done. I can’t see why they would hold off on their release past October, and wouldn’t be surprised at an incoming e-mail some time mid summer, after the expansion. As far as Tau, they will be released at the beginning of summer 2012, just before 6th edition. Sort of like Eldar, where they were a 4th edition army built for 5th edition.

Fits quite well with existing rumours.

Sorry, what expansion is this that you speak of?

A flyer expansion. With aircraft. Pewpewpew!

Scarey Nerd wrote:Sorry, what expansion is this that you speak of?

"Wartorn Skies", WD flyer expansion with new models.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/342197.page
But there is something cooking for Fantasy as well:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/335097.page

Kanluwen wrote:I have to wonder if we'll ever see anything coming of this Tau piece:


Also:
Ouze, I have bookmarked that quote. I am quoting you on that Necron Lord combination of hip-hop and Transformers if it happens.

I would love to see those models released, but IIRC they were said to be a new sculptors work who was showing GW what he could do or something like that.

Mantle wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:I have to wonder if we'll ever see anything coming of this Tau piece:


Also:
Ouze, I have bookmarked that quote. I am quoting you on that Necron Lord combination of hip-hop and Transformers if it happens.

I would love to see those models released, but IIRC they were said to be a new sculptors work who was showing GW what he could do or something like that.

Thats just what they want you to believe. trust in the insanity brothers....now wheres that tinfoil hat Orkmoticon Ive been asking for!?

Tabitha wrote:There won’t be any armies released in early/mid summer because with DE wave 2.0 followed by the summer expansion, and with several armies getting new units then, Games Workshop wants customers buying those new boxes, not buying a new army. So that means that the next release will be in the fall (September/October. Maybe August, but I doubt it.)

Despite how much I personally want witch hunters, the sisters are not the next army. I wouldn’t expect them before 2012 personally, no matter how awesome it would be.

Necrons are very likely next just because they are pretty much done. I can’t see why they would hold off on their release past October, and wouldn’t be surprised at an incoming e-mail some time mid summer, after the expansion. As far as Tau, they will be released at the beginning of summer 2012, just before 6th edition. Sort of like Eldar, where they were a 4th edition army built for 5th edition.

Only if there are two more armies released this year for 40k.

Worglock wrote:

Tabitha wrote:There won’t be any armies released in early/mid summer because with DE wave 2.0 followed by the summer expansion, and with several armies getting new units then, Games Workshop wants customers buying those new boxes, not buying a new army. So that means that the next release will be in the fall (September/October. Maybe August, but I doubt it.)

Despite how much I personally want witch hunters, the sisters are not the next army. I wouldn’t expect them before 2012 personally, no matter how awesome it would be.

Necrons are very likely next just because they are pretty much done. I can’t see why they would hold off on their release past October, and wouldn’t be surprised at an incoming e-mail some time mid summer, after the expansion. As far as Tau, they will be released at the beginning of summer 2012, just before 6th edition. Sort of like Eldar, where they were a 4th edition army built for 5th edition.

Only if there are two more armies released this year for 40k.

Do you have other information then, Worglock? The rumours about Necrons being pushed back seem to be nonsense, IMHO, as I said earlier in the thread, I don't see why there would be a problem so bad that they'd need to fill the slot with Tau etc. So are you saying the release will be Tau - Necrons - Other?

If this is true I hope so!!!

At this point, I'll be happy if my beloved undead robots just get a fun, balanced codex and some nice looking models before I become a grandfather. (hopefully sooner)

Summer of Undead goodness - Tomb Kings and Necrons . . .

Would GW dare?

Uriels_Flame wrote:Summer of Undead goodness - Tomb Kings and Necrons . . .

Would GW dare?

no they wouldn't the only time they dare is when multiple marines are available for release

Uriels_Flame wrote:Summer of Undead goodness - Tomb Kings and Necrons . . .

Would GW dare?

Less than a month ago, the fluff was still "being worked on", and fluid enough that the Black Library staff considered it an obstacle to writing new Necron novels. If the fluff was the last thing to be finalised (say, because they were cleaning up after Ward) and if they could get it finished in that month, we could get an Incoming email in a few days, for a release in July, two months after the Tomb Kings.

Whether that is likely is another question entirely.

AlexHolker wrote:

Uriels_Flame wrote:Summer of Undead goodness - Tomb Kings and Necrons . . .

Would GW dare?

Less than a month ago, the fluff was still "being worked on", and fluid enough that the Black Library staff considered it an obstacle to writing new Necron novels. If the fluff was the last thing to be finalised (say, because they were cleaning up after Ward) and if they could get it finished in that month, we could get an Incoming email in a few days, for a release in July, two months after the Tomb Kings.

Whether that is likely is another question entirely.

BrassScorpion believes that the codex has been finished for a while, while a regular rumor poster at HO says it's been done for at least three weeks.

I expect we would get an Incoming email around July/August to be honest, and a release in October seems really likely. With the summer of flyers, and Wave 2 kits that are coming out, I don't see a release in the summer being likely at all.

That's what's floating around. Not sure why anyone would think that a July release is likely, of all things.

proballly not necrons at all. im thinking its a chaos 'dex and all the "necron" stuff is just the new heretic/daemon models.


.....


though necrons would be intersting. i remember when they first arrived everyone in the local area had a 1000 point identical necron army within 2 weeks. was kinda freaky.

Scarey Nerd wrote:

Worglock wrote:

Tabitha wrote:There won’t be any armies released in early/mid summer because with DE wave 2.0 followed by the summer expansion, and with several armies getting new units then, Games Workshop wants customers buying those new boxes, not buying a new army. So that means that the next release will be in the fall (September/October. Maybe August, but I doubt it.)

Despite how much I personally want witch hunters, the sisters are not the next army. I wouldn’t expect them before 2012 personally, no matter how awesome it would be.

Necrons are very likely next just because they are pretty much done. I can’t see why they would hold off on their release past October, and wouldn’t be surprised at an incoming e-mail some time mid summer, after the expansion. As far as Tau, they will be released at the beginning of summer 2012, just before 6th edition. Sort of like Eldar, where they were a 4th edition army built for 5th edition.

Only if there are two more armies released this year for 40k.

Do you have other information then, Worglock? The rumours about Necrons being pushed back seem to be nonsense, IMHO, as I said earlier in the thread, I don't see why there would be a problem so bad that they'd need to fill the slot with Tau etc. So are you saying the release will be Tau - Necrons - Other?

Yes. Imperial. Not Marines.

Worglock wrote:Yes. Imperial. Not Marines.

Please, please, please tell me that we're talking about Sisters, here. *Hopeful face*

So.......haver Necrons been pushed back or not? I'm confused.

Yeah?

Praxiss wrote:So.......haver Necrons been pushed back or not? I'm confused.

Nobody knows for sure, there are conflicting rumors. Worgock seems sure, but hasn't posted anything besides his statements to confirm it.

Well, Necrons are done and unreleased, but there is scant reliable information on the idea that Witch Hunters/SoB or Tau are actually finished and equally potentially ready for release. In fact, quite the opposite at least in the case of Tau. So therein lies the credibility problem on a potential SoB or Tau release substituting for Necrons in 2011. If SoB are done and ready to go then it may be the best guarded secret GW has ever kept this close to a release.

Fair enough. i'll just have to keep hoping for an October Release (although it does, annoyingly, clash with the release of Battlefield 3. Doh!)

IMO, most reliable sources are saying Necrons are the next codex(not next release). The way it breaks down to me is the Necrons were pushed back and Grey Knights was released. This would jive with the rumor leaks, just maybe not the timeline some are going by.

Fingers crossed for Necrons this year.

How badass would it be if they added the other two C'tan:

The Void Dragon: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Void_Dragon

The Outsider: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Outsider

I have been praying that they would imploy these awesome characters, can you Imagine feilding a living metal dragon, or god of madness that has gathered so much power from eating its fellow gods? thats just so cool to me, but of course you wouldn't be able to field the Outsider with any other C'tan.

Fingers crossed.....

Actually, I don't like the idea of the ctans being part of the army. Never really did. I'd rather see em do ginormous undead robomonsters instead, if they want super tough greater-demonish kind of things. The tomb stalker was a great start.

C'Tan should be Apoc only. I always thought they were too much of a point sink to take anyway.

I think the cataan should be APOC only too, and much much stronger, theyre fething gods after all.

Yeah, C'Tan should be about 600 points MINIMUM, and have ridiculous abilities. I'm talking stuff like making them walkers with 14 all round and the living metal rule, but still having the skimmer rule. Craziness and shenanigans.

If they can't, AT LEAST benchpress an Imperator Titan, one handed, they're underpowered

Kidding.

I've always seen the codex ones as being a splinter of the whole, kindof like the Eldar Avatar isn't Khaine, but a fragment of Khaine. Glom all the Avatars together into Avatar Voltron to get a better idea of Khaine.

Remember the Epic scale avatar that was about 40 ft high, compared to the troops?

Screw that.
An actuall C'taan model should be bigger than it's owner.

A C'tan should be exactly whatever size it chooses to be.

Dr Manhattan from Watchmen would be a humanesque C'tan.

SImilar level of power, and size is pretty much just a preference.

I'd be happy if FW made the Ctan models, as big as their greater than greater demon models. Even though I'd never be able to afford them...

BrassScorpion wrote:Well, Necrons are done and unreleased, but there is scant reliable information on the idea that Witch Hunters/SoB or Tau are actually finished and equally potentially ready for release. In fact, quite the opposite at least in the case of Tau. So therein lies the credibility problem on a potential SoB or Tau release substituting for Necrons in 2011. If SoB are done and ready to go then it may be the best guarded secret GW has ever kept this close to a release.

Necrons, Tau and Sororitas are all due for a release within the next 14 months according to several rumour posters. Warseer moderator Darnok (and it seems Worglock) is very convinced that we will only see a Sororitas Codex second half of 2011. So no big secret, just no official information which is normal several months before the release date.

Kroothawk wrote:

BrassScorpion wrote:Well, Necrons are done and unreleased, but there is scant reliable information on the idea that Witch Hunters/SoB or Tau are actually finished and equally potentially ready for release. In fact, quite the opposite at least in the case of Tau. So therein lies the credibility problem on a potential SoB or Tau release substituting for Necrons in 2011. If SoB are done and ready to go then it may be the best guarded secret GW has ever kept this close to a release.

Necrons, Tau and Sororitas are all due for a release within the next 14 months according to several rumour posters. Warseer moderator Darnok (and it seems Worglock) is very convinced that we will only see a Sororitas Codex second half of 2011. So no big secret, just no official information which is normal several months before the release date.

So what's the lineup of these three codeces, as it stands, according to these rumours? Sisters-Necrons-Tau?

Again, product has to be boxed and ready to ship months ahead of release. Soooo, if you're looking for what's coming within the next 6 months, forget 14 months, let's talk about the next 6 months, then I'd go with the army that's already been manufactured and is ready to ship.

BrassScorpion wrote:Again, product has to be boxed and ready to ship months ahead of release. Soooo, if you're looking for what's coming within the next 6 months, forget 14 months, let's talk about the next 6 months, then I'd go with the army that's already been manufactured and is ready to ship.

Out of the three, the only models I've really heard as being ready to ship are Sisters and possibly Necrons.

I believe it's the other way around, unless both are done.

BrassScorpion wrote:I believe it's the other way around, unless both are done.

Stickmonkey (Salt, but I'm hopeful) said he'd seen the Sisters models, with veils and new bolters and looking all awesome. Haven't heard much about Necrons models other than wishlisting, really, though I may be misinformed/unobservant

with grey knights being the newest thing, id hope necrons would be next, not sisters. id rather see a new xenos army then 2 imperiums in a row.

kenzosan wrote:with grey knights being the newest thing, id hope necrons would be next, not sisters. id rather see a new xenos army then 2 imperiums in a row.

I think I could give Sisters a pass on that because their line infantry models were sculpted before half the posters here were born and they still don't have plastic troops.

Brother SRM wrote:I think I could give Sisters a pass on that because their line infantry models were sculpted before half the posters here were born and they still don't have plastic troops.

sisters models look hilarious man

idk, i think necrons need work way more then sisters. everyone i know switched to their secondary army and put necrons onto the shelf.

sisters models look hilarious man

In the 41st Millennium there is only war... and sexy corsets and lingerie.

BrassScorpion wrote:

sisters models look hilarious man

In the 41st Millennium there is only war... and sexy corsets and lingerie.

i ment more the giant mohawks

kenzosan wrote:

BrassScorpion wrote:

sisters models look hilarious man

In the 41st Millennium there is only war... and sexy corsets and lingerie.

i ment more the giant mohawks

Sounds like you're thinking of Escher from Necromunda -- I don't remember a sisterhawk.

kenzosan wrote:i ment more the giant mohawks

What the hell are you talking about?

Brother SRM wrote:

kenzosan wrote:i ment more the giant mohawks

What the hell are you talking about?

sorry, just a joke on this http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440304a&prodId=prod1080147 i always refer to her as having a mohawk, never got corrected till i got older so it kinda stuck with me...

That's more a beehive hairdo or a pompador and it long predates the punk movement and is nothing like a "mohawk".