Coincidentally this post was made on my birthday, and the Necrons have been tempting me with their awesomeness and easy of assembly/painting. But onto the story:
Word is reaching us that the Necron range (or at least parts of) is being run down now (i.e. not available to the independant stockists) which can mean only one thing… expect Necrons in about 6 months!!!
So, we could be looking at a July/August release for your favourite army of unstoppable death machines?
A couple of tidbits that we received:
The Obvious
* We’ll be back is definitely gone (Feel no Pain has took over)
* We’re hearing that Gauss weapons are rending (which makes sense and will please Darrell no end)
* There will be a ton of Psychic powers listed as ‘Tech Upgrades’
The more ‘out there’ stuff that we have trouble believing
* There will be a more ornate vehicle (maybe monolith?) with moulded glyphs
* The feel of the range has been re-skinned to make it less ‘Terminator’
* Spyders have been redone
* We hear they are getting a reboot on the scale to rival the Dark Eldar!
We’re not hearing that its gonna take the same ‘feel’ as Forgeworld’s Tomb Stalker, apparently it was created and released completely independantly of the core design team. This seems a little bit like disinformation – but knowing GW I would not be entirely surprised.
(This whole post has its original formatting as much as the forum settings allow)
The rest of the post is opinion but it makes me want to start Necrons sooner so I can have the older models, I already have the codex. Comment away!
H.B.M.C. wrote:I wonder if the C'Tan will vanish... 'cause I've got to get those models!
I doubt it, they'd basically have to do some mighty strong hand waving to delete the gods of the Necron from the fluff. We'd probably get newer models of them. Thought the current ones are good.
FNP is nice. I'm still hoping they get rid of phase out or at least limit it to the unit.
C'tan are "nice" in every sense except for game mechanics. The Deceiver is a little more useful than The Nightbringer but both are still a waste of points unless you're playing Apocalypse.
I sure hope so! I cannot wait! I hope they make the Tomb Stalker a regular choice, it's such a cool model!
If they are getting Reskinned, I wonder if this means That we're getting a full new range of plastics, similar to how the Dark Eldar were released. Would be nice.
Kurgash wrote:I'd prefer the old FnP where it wasn't negated by ap 1 and 2, then I'll accept it. Otherwise hurray, melta, plasma fodder my Immortals become.
I imagne, that a Res Orb will negate that, and allow a roll of FnP Regardless. Plus, I mean if the entire army has it, that's not really such a huge deal.
H.B.M.C. wrote:I wonder if the C'Tan will vanish... 'cause I've got to get those models!
I heard rumblings from a pretty reliable source (although this was such a long time ago now that GW could have totally changed their mind) that the C'Tan were going to be dropped from the codex and made Apocalypse only...but that doesn't necessarily mean the models would be dropped from the range, most likely just moved to direct sales only kind of deal would be my guess.
Again, assuming that rumor actually holds true when the codex is released.
Tony the guardsman wrote:FNP is awesome...just awesome...
No more of those stupid WBB rules!
Y'know, I used to be onboard with that concept, but then they went and gave Feel No Pain to Deathguard, Orks (Nobs w/Dok), Space Marines (Apothecary), Tyranids (through Catalyst), Blood Angels (Blood Chalice) and then the whole Dark Eldar army (Power From Pain) and now it almost seems like every army has Feel No Pain so I'm kind of dreading having another whole army walking around with Feel No Pain.
I almost wish they'd just do something like have every Necron unit that is still in play (but not at full strength) roll a D6 at the start of their turn and add that many models back to the unit...obviously it would need to be tweaked, but at this point I really hope they don't go with Feel No Pain for Necrons, although the current rule definitely needs to be scrapped for sure.
Army-wide FNP really isn't a good substitute for WBB in my opinion. Sure it speeds the game up and is way better for Necron players (and you guys deserve some goodies) but it really makes no sense fluff-wise. Necrons are supposed to go down, repair, and then get back up and beat you down. Having FNP and no WBB means that they are tough to kill but once they are down, they are down for good. Methinks there needs to be a better alternative created by GW.
SonicPara wrote:Army-wide FNP really isn't a good substitute for WBB in my opinion. Sure it speeds the game up and is way better for Necron players (and you guys deserve some goodies) but it really makes no sense fluff-wise. Necrons are supposed to go down, repair, and then get back up and beat you down. Having FNP and no WBB means that they are tough to kill but once they are down, they are down for good. Methinks there needs to be a better alternative created by GW.
lol, but remember who is supposedly writing the codex and all you're misgivings can then be forcused
Kurgash wrote:Not exactly thrilled with having to keep babysitting my army with a 6" bubble.
That seems to be a silly way of thinking about it, to me at least. Depending on the New codex, I imagine there will be a host of options, and what not to compensate for not having a FNP roll. If you really think about it, there are really not that many armies that can field a large volume of AP 1 and 2 weaponry (Besides IG). And if they get into close combat, that's a tactical error on oneself. I used to run plenty of lists without a Res orb. it's a nice bonus, but it's far from absolutely necessary in all circumstances.
SonicPara wrote:Army-wide FNP really isn't a good substitute for WBB in my opinion. Sure it speeds the game up and is way better for Necron players (and you guys deserve some goodies) but it really makes no sense fluff-wise. Necrons are supposed to go down, repair, and then get back up and beat you down. Having FNP and no WBB means that they are tough to kill but once they are down, they are down for good. Methinks there needs to be a better alternative created by GW.
lol, but remember who is supposedly writing the codex and all you're misgivings can then be forcused
Their reasoning is flawed (if going Direct Only is evidence that a range is getting redone, we should have had plastic Dark Eldar and Sisters years ago) and their wishlisting is stupid. Necrons should never get Psykers, or Psyker-like powers.
AlexHolker wrote:Their reasoning is flawed (if going Direct Only is evidence that a range is getting redone, we should have had plastic Dark Eldar and Sisters years ago) and their wishlisting is stupid. Necrons should never get Psykers, or Psyker-like powers.
Well, if it's done like it is in the current codex, with upgrades like The Chronometron, and what not, I don't see a problem with it.
The key part of this. Every army should be balanced. I think that like everything else, there will be a period of adjustment while people learn how to fight the "new look" necrons, then they will fade into the background again. I don't think that they will be making Necrons massively powerful (intentionally or not) compared to other armies. I feel that they will be brought up the table in terms of power rating, but will not reach the top levels.
They will probably more or less as they are now (in terms of power), except the really expensive kits will become no-brainers and you will need lots of them to make up a unit.
yakface wrote: but then they went and gave Feel No Pain to Deathguard, Orks (Nobs w/Dok), Space Marines (Apothecary), Tyranids (through Catalyst), Blood Angels (Blood Chalice) and then the whole Dark Eldar army (Power From Pain) and now it almost seems like every army has Feel No Pain
Well said. I also am no fan of Necrons gaining FNP - I don't wish for them to become cookie-cutter plague marines. On the whole, though, I am really excited about a new book!
April Grey Knights and July Necrons? Seems a bit soon to me. I would peg them for Septemberish, but that's just my gut guessing instinct. Are GW still trying for a 4 month codex release schedule?
May = Tomb Kings (Fantasy)
June = ?2nd wave Dark Eldar? (40k)
July = Necrons??? (again 40k)
There hasn't been a major army release in July for a loong time (last one I remember was Necrons July 2002 ironically) and only once in August (Dark Elves 2008), and back to back with another rumoured 40k release sounds weird as well. And the reasoning sounds far fetched as well. It sounds more in line with all the "OMG the Sororitas box is gone, Codex within 3 months apparently!" threads
While several rumours put a Necron release not that far away, I personally doubt it being so soon and in the summer holiday season.
Kroothawk wrote:May = Tomb Kings (Fantasy)
June = ?2nd wave Dark Eldar? (40k)
July = Necrons??? (again 40k)
There hasn't been a major army release in July for a loong time (last one I remember was Necrons July 2002 ironically) and only once in August (Dark Elves 2008), and back to back with another rumoured 40k release sounds weird as well. And the reasoning sounds far fetched as well. It sounds more in line with all the "OMG the Sororitas box is gone, Codex within 3 months apparently!" threads
While several rumours put a Necron release not that far away, I personally doubt it being so soon and in the summer holiday season.
Even though I don't play necrons, I do enjoy them as an army and the idea they are getting a new book makes me happy (and adds several lines to the old 'what I would do if I won the lottery on saturday' list). Hopefully they can do something similar to the DE and give them the attention they deserve.
As for c'tan, I say ditch them out of the codex, but keep the models and release new rules for using them apocalopalypse, give the supposed star-gods decent rules in a setting that makes more sense (I don't really see the nightbringer turning up in a minor skirmish on a patrol route, whole planet sized conflict? maybe).
Kurgash wrote:I'd prefer the old FnP where it wasn't negated by ap 1 and 2, then I'll accept it. Otherwise hurray, melta, plasma fodder my Immortals become.
I'm sorry, but I do agree with FnP, I don't care what metal you are made of, if you are hit by a small sun, you're fubared!
AlexHolker wrote:Necrons should never get Psykers, or Psyker-like powers.
From a rules point of view, it would be better to re-use an existing engine (representing tech upgrades via psychic powers) than to have to come up with a new system and add even more confusion to a ruleset by a company not known for precise definitions...
AlexHolker wrote:Necrons should never get Psykers, or Psyker-like powers.
From a rules point of view, it would be better to re-use an existing engine (representing tech upgrades via psychic powers) than to have to come up with a new system and add even more confusion to a ruleset by a company not known for precise definitions...
You're begging the question. What makes you think they need this added complexity in the first place?
SonicPara wrote:Army-wide FNP really isn't a good substitute for WBB in my opinion. Sure it speeds the game up and is way better for Necron players (and you guys deserve some goodies) but it really makes no sense fluff-wise. Necrons are supposed to go down, repair, and then get back up and beat you down. Having FNP and no WBB means that they are tough to kill but once they are down, they are down for good. Methinks there needs to be a better alternative created by GW.
lol, but remember who is supposedly writing the codex and all you're misgivings can then be forcused
Phil Kelly right?
I heard that It was going to be Matt Ward writin the codex, however he had such a hard time writing the fluff that two backup writers were called into finish it up.
SonicPara wrote:Army-wide FNP really isn't a good substitute for WBB in my opinion. Sure it speeds the game up and is way better for Necron players (and you guys deserve some goodies) but it really makes no sense fluff-wise. Necrons are supposed to go down, repair, and then get back up and beat you down. Having FNP and no WBB means that they are tough to kill but once they are down, they are down for good. Methinks there needs to be a better alternative created by GW.
lol, but remember who is supposedly writing the codex and all you're misgivings can then be forcused
Phil Kelly right?
I heard that It was going to be Matt Ward writin the codex, however he had such a hard time writing the fluff that two backup writers were called into finish it up.
Yeah. Apparently some people got a look at where he was taking it and FINALLY the warning klaxons sounded and was thusly intervened on. Thank god.
Oh wow so it is true I guess, I remember the topic comming up at the FLGS last week, what was Ward doing to the crons? Last I heard they were fighting alongside the blood angels or some crap like that.
The Night Stalker wrote:Oh wow so it is true I guess, I remember the topic comming up at the FLGS last week, what was Ward doing to the crons? Last I heard they were fighting alongside the blood angels or some crap like that.
I'd take anything stated by Kurgash with a pinch of salt. Nothing has pointed towards Matt Ward writing the Necrons book, and considering the level of butchery they've seemingly allowed him on the Grey Knights book--there's no 'warning klaxons going off' anywhere in GW at his style of fluff writing(which seems to be "Can I outdo C.S. Goto in terms of ridiculousness?").
And no. They were never 'fighting alongside the Blood Angels'. That's a popular misconception that people like to flout so that it makes their outrage at the Blood Angels Codex seem even more justified.
In reality, the way it's described: the Necrons and the Blood Angels are on the same planet, fighting Tyranids. They never have contact with each other, they just ignore each other and go about the business of slaughtering the Tyranids.
So, if they're getting the deldar treatment, does that mean all new looking warriors? I kinda hope not :( I like em as is, unless they wanna give em new/better poses or something
Whiel i am all for new plastic kits, i hope they dont look TOO diferent from the current models (i'm think of old obliterators now whcih cannto stand next to the current ones).
I'd like to be able to add to and update my existing Necron army, not start from complete scratch again.
Obviously the new models will look different, maybe more ornate, whatever.
My point in referring to the Oblits is that, in that case, you cannot use the 2 together as they are SO different in size, design, everything. I'm hopign that the new Necron models will be able to stand next to the old ones and not look completely out of place.
I thought ogre kingdoms was going to be in August.
Seriously, GW is way behind on the fantasy releases since it's been about 8 months since the new edition was released and they're just releasing the 1st 8th edition army book this month....
Kroothawk wrote:May = Tomb Kings (Fantasy)
June = ?2nd wave Dark Eldar? (40k)
July = Necrons??? (again 40k)
There hasn't been a major army release in July for a loong time (last one I remember was Necrons July 2002 ironically) and only once in August (Dark Elves 2008), and back to back with another rumoured 40k release sounds weird as well. And the reasoning sounds far fetched as well. It sounds more in line with all the "OMG the Sororitas box is gone, Codex within 3 months apparently!" threads
While several rumours put a Necron release not that far away, I personally doubt it being so soon and in the summer holiday season.
I'm a little wary about the "2nd wave of Dark Eldar" The latest white dwarf has the new models dropping March 19th, unless we can expect a bigger wave. I honestly wouldn't mind a summer release for necrons. New codex means my buddy will be more apt to gaming over the summer.
The Night Stalker wrote:I heard that It was going to be Matt Ward writin the codex, however he had such a hard time writing the fluff that two backup writers were called into finish it up.
Kurgash wrote:Yeah. Apparently some people got a look at where he was taking it and FINALLY the warning klaxons sounded and was thusly intervened on. Thank god.
Maybe the managers read the printed GK Codex, got suspicious and read the Necron Codex draft If a playable human GK character kickassed a Primarch twice, guess what Mat Ward had planned for the God-like C'Tan?
Hyenajoe wrote:Weren't the Daemons released during summer?
No, in May.
Alfndrate wrote:I'm a little wary about the "2nd wave of Dark Eldar" The latest white dwarf has the new models dropping March 19th, unless we can expect a bigger wave. I honestly wouldn't mind a summer release for necrons. New codex means my buddy will be more apt to gaming over the summer.
The march release was the long expected minor wave 1.5, not the big second wave bringing the rest of the promised 90% unit models.
We have it on good authority(namely: Jes Goodwin) that June will be the 2nd wave of Dark Eldar, focused mainly on the Haemonculi Covens and whatever else is left over to be released.
Pleeeeease no FNP, it will kill the concept of the army! In every single piece of Necron fluff, they die and get back up. If GW are essentially going to completely rewrite the entire Necron Race... I've lost what little faith in them I had.
On the other hand, my birthday is at the end of August, so I'd thoroughly enjoy Necrons coming out in time for that, no matter what
I dont see why people are annoyed at the concept of replacing WBB with FnP (although I am a bit irked that Necrons are no longer the only army with this rule army-wide anymore). It's the same with Tyranids suffering Perils of the Warp. They dont get attacked by daemons, but the Hive Mind just suffers a brain aneurysm (or something along those lines) which has a similar effect. Making it Streamlined means less cross-checking the book to see when the Necrons get it.
Plus, with a Res-Orb, they can still potentially be more durable than any other army. Rending combined with this might also mean the end of Melta Spam and the start of plasma spam.
KOS wrote:why I do have the bad feeling that the Necrons will return as an almost invincible army ?
Don't worry, they're not Space Marines so will be pretty "meh".
well no, that's wrong. Every army should be balanced, but I fear that Necrons could become overpowered once again :(
I have had a feeling for a while now that slowly but surely they are "over powering" all the armies, and in time all armies will be "balanced". Mostly all the new codices are said to be overpowered: Blood Angels, Wolves, Guard, etc. I have a feeling that we'll see codex upgrades for all armies before 6th edition, and then between "over powered" codices and some rules changes in 6th we'll have a decently balanced game. Or, at least I can hope.
I'm eating my salt now...
This ain't happening in Jul or Aug.
Just because parts of the army are not available to ind. retailers does not mean = new codex imminent...
If this was the case the Gray knights SOB and DE would have all had 3+ versions of their respected codexs since 4th.
Parts of other Armies are withdrawn for new box art all the time. The kits you can't order one month then pop back up in 2-3months, or go Direct only for a bit then go back to regular sales.
It's not like they are selling like free hotcakes right now, so a move to D.O. might be a good thing to drive down the inventories and back stock for a release some time next year or late this year (very late Dec-early jan).
July Aug usually are only Rule book releases, or 2nd/3rd wave for 4k, Dec/Jan Mar/Apr and Sept/Oct seem to be the money months for 40k and have been for some time.
Also due to the fact that Ogre kingdoms or what ever looks to hit about the same time... would be another reason for salt. Maybe they will be announced in Aug for a Sept/Oct launch.
The Night Stalker wrote:Oh wow so it is true I guess, I remember the topic comming up at the FLGS last week, what was Ward doing to the crons? Last I heard they were fighting alongside the blood angels or some crap like that.
I'd take anything stated by Kurgash with a pinch of salt. Nothing has pointed towards Matt Ward writing the Necrons book, and considering the level of butchery they've seemingly allowed him on the Grey Knights book--there's no 'warning klaxons going off' anywhere in GW at his style of fluff writing(which seems to be "Can I outdo C.S. Goto in terms of ridiculousness?").
And no. They were never 'fighting alongside the Blood Angels'. That's a popular misconception that people like to flout so that it makes their outrage at the Blood Angels Codex seem even more justified.
In reality, the way it's described: the Necrons and the Blood Angels are on the same planet, fighting Tyranids. They never have contact with each other, they just ignore each other and go about the business of slaughtering the Tyranids.
From the Blood Angels Codex, page 16, under the heading "955.M41 The Gehenna Campaign"
Commander Dante and the 3rd Company battle against the Necron Legions of the Silent King amidst the dusty wastes of Gehenna. For three weeks, neither side can seize the upper hand, with Dante's tactical brilliance stretched to its limits in countering the time-space manipulations of the Silent King. The stalemate is broken only when a Tyranid splinter fleet enters orbit, forcing the two armies to break off hostilities and fight the common foe. The impromptu alliance proves to be the Tyranids' undoing. Following the final battle at Devil's Crag, Dante and the Silent King go their separate ways, both forces now too battleworn to guarantee victory over the other, and, at least for the Blood Angels, the idea of turning on those they had so recently fought alongside, a rather distasteful one.
While you could make an argument that the Blood Angels and Necrons didn't co-ordinate strategy (although that's far from certain, given the wording that "Dante and the Silent King go their separate ways", implying that they were not separate for a time). You cannot, however, claim (as Kan does) that the Necrons "were never 'fighting alongside the Blood Angels'"; since the one thing the text is explicit about is that the Necrons and Blood Angels "fought alongside".
More importantly then pointing out Kan's misstatement is the point that this is another example of the Necrons moving away from a monolithic entity where the personality resides only in the C'tan, to a (slightly) more personal army where the individual lords possess some degree of autonomy and personality.
Necrons were my first 40k army, and I really look forward to seeing what they do with them: I'm not sure that the current trend of special characters that give army-wide special rules would necessarily work all that well, but at the same time, the development of the Necron background in the Apocalypse rulebooks points to different ways for this mechanic to allow for flavor to be added.
Im sorry, but i could not see the diference beetween will be back and feel no pain. I mean, except for the time when you roll the dice, the rules are exact the same: you failed an armor save, roll a dice, on 4+ you dont take the dmg, forget that if the attack was ap 1 or 2, power weapon, or causes instant death because of the Str. It can be even better if you are talking about models with more than 1 wound, they have one "wbb" roll for each wound. I liked it.
About the visuals: i like the Terminator look of them, but i would like it a lot more if all the robots got "insectish" features, like the tomb stalker...
The Night Stalker wrote:Oh wow so it is true I guess, I remember the topic comming up at the FLGS last week, what was Ward doing to the crons? Last I heard they were fighting alongside the blood angels or some crap like that.
I'd take anything stated by Kurgash with a pinch of salt. Nothing has pointed towards Matt Ward writing the Necrons book, and considering the level of butchery they've seemingly allowed him on the Grey Knights book--there's no 'warning klaxons going off' anywhere in GW at his style of fluff writing(which seems to be "Can I outdo C.S. Goto in terms of ridiculousness?").
And no. They were never 'fighting alongside the Blood Angels'. That's a popular misconception that people like to flout so that it makes their outrage at the Blood Angels Codex seem even more justified.
In reality, the way it's described: the Necrons and the Blood Angels are on the same planet, fighting Tyranids. They never have contact with each other, they just ignore each other and go about the business of slaughtering the Tyranids.
From the Blood Angels Codex, page 16, under the heading "955.M41 The Gehenna Campaign"
Commander Dante and the 3rd Company battle against the Necron Legions of the Silent King amidst the dusty wastes of Gehenna. For three weeks, neither side can seize the upper hand, with Dante's tactical brilliance stretched to its limits in countering the time-space manipulations of the Silent King. The stalemate is broken only when a Tyranid splinter fleet enters orbit, forcing the two armies to break off hostilities and fight the common foe. The impromptu alliance proves to be the Tyranids' undoing. Following the final battle at Devil's Crag, Dante and the Silent King go their separate ways, both forces now too battleworn to guarantee victory over the other, and, at least for the Blood Angels, the idea of turning on those they had so recently fought alongside, a rather distasteful one.
While you could make an argument that the Blood Angels and Necrons didn't co-ordinate strategy (although that's far from certain, given the wording that "Dante and the Silent King go their separate ways", implying that they were not separate for a time). You cannot, however, claim (as Kan does) that the Necrons "were never 'fighting alongside the Blood Angels'"; since the one thing the text is explicit about is that the Necrons and Blood Angels "fought alongside".
More importantly then pointing out Kan's misstatement is the point that this is another example of the Necrons moving away from a monolithic entity where the personality resides only in the C'tan, to a (slightly) more personal army where the individual lords possess some degree of autonomy and personality.
Necrons were my first 40k army, and I really look forward to seeing what they do with them: I'm not sure that the current trend of special characters that give army-wide special rules would necessarily work all that well, but at the same time, the development of the Necron background in the Apocalypse rulebooks points to different ways for this mechanic to allow for flavor to be added.
Hey, maybe they just exchanged deathmask fashion tips and went their sepperate ways.
The Night Stalker wrote:Oh wow so it is true I guess, I remember the topic comming up at the FLGS last week, what was Ward doing to the crons? Last I heard they were fighting alongside the blood angels or some crap like that.
I'd take anything stated by Kurgash with a pinch of salt. Nothing has pointed towards Matt Ward writing the Necrons book, and considering the level of butchery they've seemingly allowed him on the Grey Knights book--there's no 'warning klaxons going off' anywhere in GW at his style of fluff writing(which seems to be "Can I outdo C.S. Goto in terms of ridiculousness?").
And no. They were never 'fighting alongside the Blood Angels'. That's a popular misconception that people like to flout so that it makes their outrage at the Blood Angels Codex seem even more justified.
In reality, the way it's described: the Necrons and the Blood Angels are on the same planet, fighting Tyranids. They never have contact with each other, they just ignore each other and go about the business of slaughtering the Tyranids.
From the Blood Angels Codex, page 16, under the heading "955.M41 The Gehenna Campaign"
Commander Dante and the 3rd Company battle against the Necron Legions of the Silent King amidst the dusty wastes of Gehenna. For three weeks, neither side can seize the upper hand, with Dante's tactical brilliance stretched to its limits in countering the time-space manipulations of the Silent King. The stalemate is broken only when a Tyranid splinter fleet enters orbit, forcing the two armies to break off hostilities and fight the common foe. The impromptu alliance proves to be the Tyranids' undoing. Following the final battle at Devil's Crag, Dante and the Silent King go their separate ways, both forces now too battleworn to guarantee victory over the other, and, at least for the Blood Angels, the idea of turning on those they had so recently fought alongside, a rather distasteful one.
While you could make an argument that the Blood Angels and Necrons didn't co-ordinate strategy (although that's far from certain, given the wording that "Dante and the Silent King go their separate ways", implying that they were not separate for a time). You cannot, however, claim (as Kan does) that the Necrons "were never 'fighting alongside the Blood Angels'"; since the one thing the text is explicit about is that the Necrons and Blood Angels "fought alongside".
The Gauls and the Mongols both fought the Romans. They however never fought alongside each other, never organized themselves, etc.
With the Blood Angels/Necrons bit it's an example of an author trying to use a word that they think means one thing when it really means something else.
Basically: the "impromptu alliance" part is just crummy wording. It's meant to show that it was 'unforeseen', when in reality impromptu just means 'improvised' or 'done without preparation'.
More importantly then pointing out Kan's misstatement is the point that this is another example of the Necrons moving away from a monolithic entity where the personality resides only in the C'tan, to a (slightly) more personal army where the individual lords possess some degree of autonomy and personality.
I do agree that the example of individualism was a good step forward. I do disagree, however, with your interpretation of the fluff.
Necrons were my first 40k army, and I really look forward to seeing what they do with them: I'm not sure that the current trend of special characters that give army-wide special rules would necessarily work all that well, but at the same time, the development of the Necron background in the Apocalypse rulebooks points to different ways for this mechanic to allow for flavor to be added.
Pleeeeease no FNP, it will kill the concept of the army! In every single piece of Necron fluff, they die and get back up.
Two saving throws is two saving throws, it will hardly kill the concept of the army for game play purposes to change the name of the second saving throw and you can imagine anything you want regarding why they get two saving throws. WBB is one of the most outdated, poorly understood and abused rules ever. It finally missed its own saving throw, I wouldn't expect it to be back.
I think you're confusing the Mongols with the Huns under Attila (420s)...there wasn't a roman empire to speak of in the 1200s when the Mongols invaded Europe....and didn't make it that far west.
The Gauls wouldn't have helped the Huns anyway because by the time of Attila they were already an integrated people in the roman empire...in fact they fought the huns when Attila crossed the Rhine.
You could be thinking of how the Visigoths invaded and sacked rome (410) but they weren't Gauls, they were Goths that were settled, by the romans, on land owned by Gauls.
Your point that GW writers lack any fundamental understanding of the English language is taken but the example was incorrect.
I know its been mentioned that babysitting the warriors with a six inch bubble, but as it stands there is nothing that gives a unit their feel no pain roll no matter what. At least with a lord attached to a unit (or near by), the warriors would still get a saving throw. With one of my friends playing Plague Marines, and the other playing Necrons, seeing WBB rolls happen makes it more annoying for the Plague Marine player who has seen five warriors drop to power weapons etc, and watching four of them get right back up.
But I think if the Rez Orb does something similar to what it currently does, I would be happy.
With regards to WBB there is no reason that an equal rule can't be just as fluffy to the codex and spirit of the army. If WBB is removed and replaced by a universal rule then the Necrons may get a new army wide special rule that can go with the new expanded upon fluff. In fact I would rather see something new as an armywide rule rather than re-done WBB.
The Six inch bubble - I think the main problem here is the fact thats its a bubble only an HQ slot can provide. Personally, I would rather see Tomb Spiders take upon the baby-sitting job of repairing Necrons than the Necron Lord as in the current codex. It would be more fluffy, more interesting game play, and just all around better for the army. The Bubble defense needs to stay, but should be moved to a different unit and not an HQ
C'tan - I think there should be a full powered C'tan version for Apoc, however, they should not be removed wholly from the codex as this would both hurt the fluff and what little the army has right now that is interesting.
Firstly, Necron Lords need to be expanded upon so that no one should ever feel compelled to use the C'tan for their armies, they should have distinct personalities as in the fluff they actually are not as tarnished from the years of being Necron as other types of Necrons.
The C'tan themselves should either be changed to a herald type scenario like Dawn of War with keeping their current power level with a rules update, or should remain as C'tan that are restricted to a smaller power level (compared to Apoc) because of the type of necrodermis that they are in for smaller confrontations.
Given what happened to the other "faceless" army (the Nids) I wouldnt be surprised if a whole host of new special characters appear to fill the gap of loosing the C'tan. The C'tan themselves never really fit in with the other special characters, it's like the Ultramarine Primarch showing up and replacing Calgar in the Vanilla Marine codex or Khorne leading his Daemons.
As for the Res Orb, I agree with Noir in that someone else should do the babysitting. With a name like the Res Orb, I'd be expecting something along the lines of the VC and TK ability of summoning basic troopers mid-battle, Nids and (to an extent) IG can do it, and it would give at least some flavour to the Necrons when their WBB gets generalized into FnP.
MechaEmperor7000 wrote:Given what happened to the other "faceless" army (the Nids) I wouldnt be surprised if a whole host of new special characters appear to fill the gap of loosing the C'tan. The C'tan themselves never really fit in with the other special characters, it's like the Ultramarine Primarch showing up and replacing Calgar in the Vanilla Marine codex or Khorne leading his Daemons.
As for the Res Orb, I agree with Noir in that someone else should do the babysitting. With a name like the Res Orb, I'd be expecting something along the lines of the VC and TK ability of summoning basic troopers mid-battle, Nids and (to an extent) IG can do it, and it would give at least some flavour to the Necrons when their WBB gets generalized into FnP.
It always surprised me that Tomb Spyders didn't count as having a Res Orb. That should be included, methinks.
agnosto wrote:I think you're confusing the Mongols with the Huns under Attila (420s)...there wasn't a roman empire to speak of in the 1200s when the Mongols invaded Europe....and didn't make it that far west.
The Gauls wouldn't have helped the Huns anyway because by the time of Attila they were already an integrated people in the roman empire...in fact they fought the huns when Attila crossed the Rhine.
You could be thinking of how the Visigoths invaded and sacked rome (410) but they weren't Gauls, they were Goths that were settled, by the romans, on land owned by Gauls.
That was the point, clearly! That without Attila's research into a time traveling chariot and teleporting yurts, the Gauls and Mongols couldn't ever be allies!
Your point that GW writers lack any fundamental understanding of the English language is taken but the example was incorrect.
I know, it made me feel bad after I reread it. But I was on a time constraint having to argue on the phone with someone.
MechaEmperor7000 wrote:Given what happened to the other "faceless" army (the Nids) I wouldnt be surprised if a whole host of new special characters appear to fill the gap of loosing the C'tan. The C'tan themselves never really fit in with the other special characters, it's like the Ultramarine Primarch showing up and replacing Calgar in the Vanilla Marine codex or Khorne leading his Daemons.
Which is what I was leaning towards. I don't mind the removal of the C'tan themselves so much as their complete removal. I would rather see a herald that acted much like in DoW where you could summon the powers of the C'tan to aid you in battle. Something like this could use the current model range, have the same power level with updated rules, and be still just as fluffy if not more to what is currently in place.
If the C'tan where to stay than there should be more fluff as to when they choose to engage in battle and as to why. The C'tan regularly engaged in battle with the Necrons during the war against the old ones so it isn't completely unrealistic to see them in a battle now while they are awakened. Its fluffy that they fight now because they are awakened, hungry, and feeding on whatever they can. Khorne isn't exactly entering the universe on a normal basis. All I want is the fluff to be there
About special characters in general, again this is why I said to make Necron Lords 10x more expanded upon. Just because the C'tan exist doesn't mean that the Necron army should take a back seat. I want to see more with the Necron Lords, see the story of the Necrontyr from their side as they have not completely forgotten times before being Necron.
New units could also allow special characters so that special characters are not just completely focused on Lords and Pariahs. With the trend of around 8 special characters per codex there is plenty of room to fit everything the codex needs.
Buzzsaw wrote: From the Blood Angels Codex, page 16, under the heading "955.M41 The Gehenna Campaign"
Commander Dante and the 3rd Company battle against the Necron Legions of the Silent King amidst the dusty wastes of Gehenna. For three weeks, neither side can seize the upper hand, with Dante's tactical brilliance stretched to its limits in countering the time-space manipulations of the Silent King. The stalemate is broken only when a Tyranid splinter fleet enters orbit, forcing the two armies to break off hostilities and fight the common foe. The impromptu alliance proves to be the Tyranids' undoing. Following the final battle at Devil's Crag, Dante and the Silent King go their separate ways, both forces now too battleworn to guarantee victory over the other, and, at least for the Blood Angels, the idea of turning on those they had so recently fought alongside, a rather distasteful one.
While you could make an argument that the Blood Angels and Necrons didn't co-ordinate strategy (although that's far from certain, given the wording that "Dante and the Silent King go their separate ways", implying that they were not separate for a time). You cannot, however, claim (as Kan does) that the Necrons "were never 'fighting alongside the Blood Angels'"; since the one thing the text is explicit about is that the Necrons and Blood Angels "fought alongside".
November release
Phase out will be gone
WBB remains with tweaks.
Ctan leave the dex
Crons will either be fearless or stubborn
Wraith claws will ignore armor and invul saves in CC expect general price decreases throughout the codex
I, like many others, am against the WBB to FNP change because it's completely against the fluff. The Necrons die, then they get back up, not just ignore the wound. As for Guass being rending, I feel like a better alternative to this, so it doesn't mess with shooting at non-armoured units, just have it count all vehicles as open-topped. This allows it to destroy vehicles with a glancing it, but won't make their shooting the deadliest thing in existence. Also firmly against the individualized Lords. Necrons don't have personal identity, they have conformity and a universal theme. Having special Lords would totally break this feel and make me rather upset I think.
H.B.M.C. wrote:I wonder if the C'Tan will vanish... 'cause I've got to get those models!
I doubt it, they'd basically have to do some mighty strong hand waving to delete the gods of the Necron from the fluff. We'd probably get newer models of them. Thought the current ones are good.
Just because it's in the fluff doesn't mean it has to be in game.
KOS wrote:why I do have the bad feeling that the Necrons will return as an almost invincible army ?
Of course they will. its GW. The best way to sell a new army is to have it own everything else. The latest codex is always the best...well, it will be just under the last or next SM release. So take a look at GK when they come out next month, Necrons will be just a bit less powerful than them. After all we cant have a xeno completely running over the bread and butter SM.
Although I dont play 40k, and am unlikely to, Im looking forward to this. I really like the necrons and some new fluff will be fun to read. maybe even buy a few minis if they make some good ones.
KOS wrote:why I do have the bad feeling that the Necrons will return as an almost invincible army ?
Of course they will. its GW. The best way to sell a new army is to have it own everything else. The latest codex is always the best...well, it will be just under the last or next SM release. So take a look at GK when they come out next month, Necrons will be just a bit less powerful than them. After all we cant have a xeno completely running over the bread and butter SM.
Although I dont play 40k, and am unlikely to, Im looking forward to this. I really like the necrons and some new fluff will be fun to read. maybe even buy a few minis if they make some good ones.
Nah. If they were Space Marines: Necrons then yes, they would be overpowered to the max.
The last couple non-SM codexes have been relatively balanced but fun to play. Hopefully Necrons keep that going.
Portaljacker wrote:I'm wondering if I should start Necron now, or will the old models be useless? Or would they still be useful but be of the older style so unique?
If it's plastic now, it'll probably be unchanged. They usually have three plastic kits per release, and all the rumors for the last two years or whatever have been plastic immortals. In other words, load up on warriors, destroyers, and Monoliths and you should be gravy. Those are pretty much the only usable units in the codex anyway.
You know even if they kept WBB in name only but had it operate just like FNP I'd be happy. But oh well. My biggest concern is this redesigning of the models bit. I think aesthetically necrons have the most coherent and well done look of any army. I really hope we don't see any design changes, just change the metal models to plastic please.
Also tech upgrades acting like psychic powers is kinda bizzare. Why would we need a Ld test? What's the Perils of the Warp equivalent? The old system of wargear works just fine: pick 100 points of the following.
Of course it works, but it's the old style. Now all Necron characters will get 8 billion different options, of which only 3 will be useful and all will be weapons, meaning you can only actually take one.
I'm just looking forward to a plastic Heavy Destroyer. GW is eliminating all hybrid kits from the range, so bye-bye hybrid HD and hello re-cut Destroyer/Heavy Destroyer.
Azure - necron guns SHOULD rip apart non-vehicles - they take your armour apart molecule by molecule. They should have already had rending....
I'm looking forward to it, because I'ev always love the concept just been put off by the limited army choices. ALso, loading up on monliths may be a bad idea, as EVERYONE has one it may get the 'fex treatment...
Azure wrote:Also firmly against the individualized Lords. Necrons don't have personal identity, they have conformity and a universal theme. Having special Lords would totally break this feel and make me rather upset I think.
Actually, there are two pieces of fluff that would support individual named Lords:
p25 Codex: Necrons:
"Only a few of the very strongest [Necrontyr] retained their intellect and even they were shadows of their former selves."
...and the Necron section of the 5th Ed 40k Rulebook (don't have it on me, no direct quote) expressly states that Necrons retain their memory and personality (to an extent) but by being kept in stasis for so long, damaged and repaired repeatedly, their memories are fading. This applies to Warriors more than the Lords, who were likely built with improved hard drives or whatever. But after 60 million years of being stuck inside a robot, I would imagine whatever personality you once had has devolved into a hateful, seething anger. Even so, it specifically mentions that the more powerful Lords retain some measure of personality and memory.
if you are thinking of startign a 'Cron army then your best bet is probably to pick up the Battleforce as it has a squad of destroyers, a good starting point of scarabs and (i think) 24 warriors.
I plan to as Maelstrom sells it and most battleforces for $75CDN as opposed to $108CDN. Does Maelstrom charge VAT for international orders? If so what percent of the cost is VAT equivalent to?
I plan to as Maelstrom sells it and most battleforces for $75CDN as opposed to $108CDN. Does Maelstrom charge VAT for international orders? If so what percent of the cost is VAT equivalent to?
Wouldn't it make more sense to check with Maelstrom at their website and get an immediate answer than checking here, having to wait, and maybe getting no information or bad information? Does anyone on Warhammer forums ever go anywhere else on the Internet?
28 warriors, i think? As to why 28? beats me
It's because at the time the Tau Battleforce came out a few years ago GW went to the "all Battleforces and Battalions have the same price" which was $90 US then. For most Battleforces that was a price decrease, but for the Necrons it was a slight increase and in order to make the Necron Battleforce a worthwhile deal they stuck in a few more Warriors than had originally been in it. Of course, they abandoned the strict $90 pricing on Battleforces a couple years ago, but at the time it was the rule of the GW land it was why they modified the Necron Battleforce as they did.
If you can find the Apocalypse Necron Phalanx bundle deal sitting on a shelf somewhere it's a great way to get tons of core plastics at a significant discount. I got mine at 20% off at the time, making it like buying the equivalent individual box sets at wholesale. I've just been hanging onto it since then waiting patiently for the next Necron Codex revision and more plastics to go with it.
28 warriors in the battleforce is a good idea, add 1 box of warriors and you have 40, throw in a lord and there's a great starter army. I'm gonna be doing 3 units of 13 though, instead of 4 units of 10
I think as far as what you get the necron battleforce seems to be one of the best deals.
I just want a little more variety in what Necrons are. I mean you basically have the same looking guys; one with a green peg, another with two green pegs in parallel, another with two green pegs end-to-end, and yet another with FOUR green pegs. The only real variety in the current army is whether or not a unit has a Destoyer body.
I like what im hearing from these rumors...except the part about the Gauss weapons all being rending! I relaly hope that they improve the look of the Necrons tremendously....but not to the point where I convince myself that I need yet another army to collect!
Take this as salt or what you will but I have heard a few interesting things from a friend of mine who works for GW in the UK... He has been pretty accurate with the stuff he has told me about DE, BA, and Orcs and Goblins, and usually I refrain from posting but this seemed a little too awesome not to put out there.
Take it as you will, I for one believe nothing until I see it in White Dwarf.
Several new plastic kit, including a Plastic type giant ( New Ctan, New HS or Similar?)
Plastic Immortals
Re Cut Warriors with possible addition to turn them into another troops choice (Flayed ones or similar?)
Multiple Rod Colors (I.E. We wont be stuck with just green anymore)
Monolith has some major changes the likes we haven't seen in any kit GW has ever produced. Multiple weapon options, and apparently there were talks of putting an LED kit to go into the center...We shall see if this comes to fruition as this seemed very doubtful to me, but again maybe this is a new direction for them.
Again take this as salt, but he was very right about the DE release, BA release (including the Storm Raven well before the pics were leaked), and several other things this year....I tend to believe it but will hold my breath until we see some actual confirmation.
sworth9411 wrote:Take this as salt or what you will but I have heard a few interesting things from a friend of mine who works for GW in the UK... He has been pretty accurate with the stuff he has told me about DE, BA, and Orcs and Goblins, and usually I refrain from posting but this seemed a little too awesome not to put out there.
This is a mix of the rumors from last year that we heard re: Necrons (Giant = Necromancer, Immortals/Warriors in plastic, etc and wishlisting (LED kit??), I think.
Those rumors are not wishlisting... I don't remember seeing that thread....but still take it as salt I hope to see some of it if not I'm sure they will still be awesome.
What I find to be most interesting about this announcement (besides the fact that they seem to be doing 2 MEQ armies side-by-side) is that based on the current 'leaked' GK dex, the current codex that best counters the GKs would be the CURRENT Necron dex... I'm guessing they realised this during playtesting, and GW felt there was no reason that a non-SM dex should be stronger then a SM dex, so they decided to "update" the dex to something that will probably get steamrolled by GKs.
All things considered: Dear Necron Players,
How pissed would you be if they removed Living Metal from the Monolith (or turned it into something stupid like a 5+ invul)?
Daemon-Archon Ren wrote:What I find to be most interesting about this announcement (besides the fact that they seem to be doing 2 MEQ armies side-by-side) is that based on the current 'leaked' GK dex, the current codex that best counters the GKs would be the CURRENT Necron dex... I'm guessing they realised this during playtesting, and GW felt there was no reason that a non-SM dex should be stronger then a SM dex, so they decided to "update" the dex to something that will probably get steamrolled by GKs.
All things considered: Dear Necron Players,
How pissed would you be if they removed Living Metal from the Monolith (or turned it into something stupid like a 5+ invul)?
Daemon-Archon Ren wrote:What I find to be most interesting about this announcement (besides the fact that they seem to be doing 2 MEQ armies side-by-side) is that based on the current 'leaked' GK dex, the current codex that best counters the GKs would be the CURRENT Necron dex... I'm guessing they realised this during playtesting, and GW felt there was no reason that a non-SM dex should be stronger then a SM dex, so they decided to "update" the dex to something that will probably get steamrolled by GKs.
All things considered: Dear Necron Players,
How pissed would you be if they removed Living Metal from the Monolith (or turned it into something stupid like a 5+ invul)?
Thoughts?
~DAR
Pretty. Ruttin'. Pissed.
What if it was 120 points and came with a free frogurt?
Daemon-Archon Ren wrote:What I find to be most interesting about this announcement (besides the fact that they seem to be doing 2 MEQ armies side-by-side) is that based on the current 'leaked' GK dex, the current codex that best counters the GKs would be the CURRENT Necron dex... I'm guessing they realised this during playtesting, and GW felt there was no reason that a non-SM dex should be stronger then a SM dex, so they decided to "update" the dex to something that will probably get steamrolled by GKs.
All things considered: Dear Necron Players,
How pissed would you be if they removed Living Metal from the Monolith (or turned it into something stupid like a 5+ invul)?
Thoughts?
~DAR
Pretty. Ruttin'. Pissed.
What if it was 120 points and came with a free frogurt?
Well if you put it THAT way...
On a more serious note, if living metal was removed and it was reduced by 115 points, I'd still be pissed. 'Cos Necron ships, vehicles and the C'Tan are all meant to be made of that near indestructible stuff. I don't like retconning out cool goodies
What if it was 120 points and came with a free frogurt?
Well if you put it THAT way...
On a more serious note, if living metal was removed and it was reduced by 115 points, I'd still be pissed. 'Cos Necron ships, vehicles and the C'Tan are all meant to be made of that near indestructible stuff. I don't like retconning out cool goodies
I'd prep your pissed face now then. I imagine things will little resemble the current rules when they are done. Necrons need too much for a bandaid fix.
I'd prep your pissed face now then. I imagine things will little resemble the current rules when they are done. Necrons need too much for a bandaid fix.
*sigh* I know, I can see my beloved 'Crons being ruined (for me at least), but I dare to hope...
I really dont think the monolith needs to lose living metal. Personally, I dont see it as something so over powered it needs to go bye bye. Yea its tough, and you have to actually think a bit on how your going to go at it, but its not HOMG powerful.
The led kit - sounds like total BS to me
multiple color rods - again, sounds like BS, they wouldnt go through the trouble of making players THAT happy. They will stay green Id bet
multi troop choice kits - making a warrior box either flayed ones or warriors would be a neat idea. I can see this working out well, specially if they make the flayed ones worth taking. Ive always liked them as an idea, but on the table they are certainly laughable right now.
Yeah I saw this, I really hope it is true. I don't collect necrons but think with a little love they could go a very long way.
I'm going to take a flying leap into the dark and say seen as Necrons came form films (aka terminator other robots of death) I think games workshop will be keen to keep the art style and models on the same lines. And talking of films and giant killy robots of death/AI world apocalypse films of recent years there is only one that bests terminator and it is the Matrix
Next tomb spyder?
I don't have a screen shot but the little robots at the end of Matrix revolutions could be the next scarabs?
I'm assuming the Necorns tomb spyder was originally inspired alot by GW own interpratation of Egyptian mythology.
Edit just looked up the dates 1999 Matrix ... 2002 dex oops my bad.
not sure which came first, the current dex or tomb kings, but they have a lot of similarity.
I'm hoping against Matrix-crons TBH. I like my metal undead pretty much the way they are (though plastic immortals,flayed ones etc would be nice..) and the smoother, insectile look they went for with the Tomb Stalker looks a bit too Nid for my tastes. Very cool, but not 'Necron' enough for me.
I imagine that the Liths won't change too much, but the new kit (if there is one) will have all the options that do not suck, so that you need the new ones.
I'll be frickin cranky if they make liths vulnerable to melta and cfists etc given that it's the only tank we have, it's slow as hell and it has no troop carrying capability (teleporting yes, carrying no). I'd not be shocked if they do nerf it hard though, as imperial players have been bee-hotching about the meltablocking etc for years, and now they have meltablocking stuff of their own...
Also, why is a Sraven melta-blocking due to protection from re-entry, but drop-pods aren't
true, but they're not melta resistant on the outside...
I've been in plenty of situations where the other player has blocked a gap between buildings with a pod, and left the hatches up on that side (placing it so they can't unfold)
yakface wrote: but then they went and gave Feel No Pain to Deathguard, Orks (Nobs w/Dok), Space Marines (Apothecary), Tyranids (through Catalyst), Blood Angels (Blood Chalice) and then the whole Dark Eldar army (Power From Pain) and now it almost seems like every army has Feel No Pain
Well said. I also am no fan of Necrons gaining FNP - I don't wish for them to become cookie-cutter plague marines. On the whole, though, I am really excited about a new book!
I'm late to the party, but a better rule could be at the start of the Necron players turn, roll a die for every Necron unit that has suffered casualties. If the roll is equal to or higher than the units majority toughness the owning player can add d3 more models to that unit up to, but not exceeding the original starting count for that unit.
This way it's not easy to rebuild a unit of Destroyers, but a unit of warriors or even scarabs can come back quicker. It's not FnP and doesn't suffer from the disadvantages of FnP (pw and ap 1-2 weapons ignoring it). It also won't be a benifit to IC's
Bindi Baji at HO has this to say about the Necrons and the Beasts of War rumors:
Bindi Baji wrote:WBB is still in the mix, it was being tested, retested and tinkered with only two months ago,
there is a big effort being made to keep it, just a bit simpler
Bindi Baji wrote:The warriors are one of the few kits with nothing being changed
Bindi Baji;896128 wrote:I was going to go through the re- opening points that MCC brought us from beasts of war, but got bored halfway through
We hear they are getting a reboot on the scale to rival the Dark Eldar!
that sounds like an exaggeration, probably because it is
Spyders have been redone
This is a "surprise" in the same way that white paint being.............white is, especially so seeing as I mentioned a plastic tomb spyder well over a year ago
The feel of the range has been re-skinned to make it less ‘Terminator’
yes, instead the army will be loosely based upon robotic liverpudlians with curly hair and 'taches
How sure are you about that? [speaking about the warrior kit not changing]
^^^^^-calm down, he wasn't talking about liverpudlian necrons
as sure as I can be,
apparently another rumour-monger on 'seer has corroborated this since I originally stated it a few months back but I couldn't tell you who
Bindi Baji wrote:destroyers are being redone,
everything else should be safe though [speaking about the battleforce content]
Bindi Baji wrote:immortals are being done, I would imagine they will be plastic but don't know for definate, same with flayed ones
Bindi Baji wrote:the fluffy stuffy is not an issue,
they are past the point where fluffyness would be an issue,
unless we're talking fluffy pillows after a hard days work designing necrony things
Ascalam wrote:true, but they're not melta resistant on the outside...
I've been in plenty of situations where the other player has blocked a gap between buildings with a pod, and left the hatches up on that side (placing it so they can't unfold)
I don't meant to derail the thread but I saw this and just wanted to clarify, those opponents have been abusing the Drop Pod model against you. Once a Drop Pod lands the hatches are blown open and cannot be resealed. In the context of the game, the "petals" actually don't even count as part of the model, they are purely decoration.
Apologies for the small bit of off topic discussion, just wanted to clarify a rule
My only complaint so far is that whole might get psychic abilities thing. it makes no sense fluff wise, psychic power emanates from the warp, the necrons have no warp presence whatsoever and are a antithesis to it. other than that it will probably be WBB as feel no pain, with modifications with rez orb. While i am not a big fan of new models i will give them a shot, though that may be because i have 2750 points worth of warriors, immortals, scarabs, and destroyers. maybe if the new vehicle concept is cool i might get it but then i would be predictable.
I hope we don't get streamlined too much. No necron Rhinos transporting necron sarges with gauss-fists please. If we do get to upgrade units it should be for every model, like grenades, or IG vet doctrines. I really don't want to see an Immortal leading warriors or one warrior carrying a gauss special weapon.
sworth9411 wrote:Multiple Rod Colors (I.E. We wont be stuck with just green anymore)
Multiple rod colours? I doubt it. And what colours can they do besides green anyway; red and its tertairy colours (yellow, purple, etc.) just looks too daemonic to suit an undead host, bright blue just looks too 'good' or benign, but dark blue or an inky, textured black... With a suitable change in the modelling structure and a different paintjob (maybe with a brooding night lords like blue blended into a dark iron), it could look good with the theme of a horde of dark, mindless entities crawling out of depths of the abyss... (necron abyss, anyone? )
But overall the general aesthetic of the Necrons is of 'dark energy' much like the new mandrakes. Unless their aesthetic is changed for different factions or phalanxs, (like chaos space marines - word bearers compared to emperor's children, death guard, night lords, etc.) according to the C'tan they serve, I can't see gauss weapons being anything besides green.
sworth9411 wrote:Monolith has some major changes the likes we haven't seen in any kit GW has ever produced. Multiple weapon options, and apparently there were talks of putting an LED kit to go into the center...We shall see if this comes to fruition as this seemed very doubtful to me, but again maybe this is a new direction for them.
Firstly an LED light would be expensive to mass produce (at least at first), secondly GW specialises in materials for modelling (plastic, metal, plastic glue). The paints and tools themselves are made by Citadel (at least I'm pretty shure; it doesn't mention GW on the packaging and descriptions) and also the super glue. Also, an LED light would be easily damaged or ruined with the paints and glue (anyone can visualise it, a kid gets a Monolith and puts paint on the light, not putting it on after he paints the rest of the model or the paint or glue clogs up the light switch or short circuits the wires). I think GW would leave lights for vehicles as something for hobbyists to do themselves instead of supplying them...
Portaljacker wrote:Wait, how is that an answer to my post?
Erhm, Because the Battleforce has 3 destroyers in it. You could wait, and see if the Destroyers get their own kit, and just purchase the warriors instead.
Clang wrote:Multiple rod colours available at extra cost from Mail Order? - maybe. For free in every necron box? - I doubt it.
I don't know, I can imagine it. A box with 12 necron warriors, and included within- 4 green rods, 4 red rods, and 4 yellow rods. Players who want their whole army to have the same color can buy multi-color rod kits consisting of a pack of 4 green, 4 red, 4 yellow, and 4 purple purple from GW direct for an extra $20.
The more I think about it, the more I'm shocked management didn't hit upon this idea earlier.
Kinda like the LED kit. They buy the components wholesale and pay some high school kids to assemble them (naturally the battery case will have an Imperial Eagle stamped on it somewhere) and then put it in every monolith kit and up the cost by $20.
Ascalam wrote:Also, why is a Sraven melta-blocking due to protection from re-entry, but drop-pods aren't
That's a pretty minor fluff-quibble to me. The Stormraven is designed as a reusable vehicle, drop pods are presumable single use, or at elast need refurbishing between uses. Different specs for thickness and composition of armor, etc.
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nsdocholiday wrote:My only complaint so far is that whole might get psychic abilities thing. it makes no sense fluff wise, psychic power emanates from the warp, the necrons have no warp presence whatsoever and are a antithesis to it. other than that it will probably be WBB as feel no pain, with modifications with rez orb. While i am not a big fan of new models i will give them a shot, though that may be because i have 2750 points worth of warriors, immortals, scarabs, and destroyers. maybe if the new vehicle concept is cool i might get it but then i would be predictable.
From the sound of it, it may be more "They're getting special abilities which sue a variant of the psychic power rules" but the question is how they'll hook in. If they're truly psychic (I.E. blockable by psychic hoods, etc.) or in a grey area (oh so common for GW), that's bad. If they are explicitly different even if using similar mechanics, that's good.
The main issue is probably concern over making them so 'different' that they are overpowered. I.E. if they add 'machine spirit' powers (I'm just guessing here...) then logically the TechMarines, Enginseers, etc. should be able to oppose those abilities, but there's no mechanics in the game for that, really. It would be kind of like if one faction got true 'flyers' (as per the older rules) with all the associated rules and no one had AA weapons, etc.
Balance wrote: It would be kind of like if one faction got true 'flyers' (as per the older rules) with all the associated rules and no one had AA weapons, etc.
Sooo.... Kinda like most 5th edition codexes vs non 5th edition codexes?
~EDIT~
Also...
Deathly Angel wrote:
Firstly an LED light would be expensive to mass produce (at least at first), secondly GW specialises in materials for modelling (plastic, metal, plastic glue). The paints and tools themselves are made by Citadel (at least I'm pretty shure; it doesn't mention GW on the packaging and descriptions) and also the super glue.
You do know that GW is the Parent Company for Citadel Miniatures right? (If not, then now you do!)
I'm hoping for a unit kit for Destroyers where you get 3 in a box rather than just the one. maybe each box contains the parts to upgrade 1 to a H.Destroyer.
The big problem with the rods isn't the color, it's the way they're attached to the sprue. Common sense would have them attached at the ends where filing or clipping wouldn't blemish the visible part. But GW obviously felt differently.
i can't see GW offering different colour rods. Certainly not with enough in each box to fully make the unit yuo have bought, surely not even they are that cruel?
I reckon they'll stick to green in the packs, all the fluff always referes to "sickly green energy"....ut i suppose they coudl just re-write the fluff. Maybe they could inrtoduce packs of other colours on a Direct order basis? But saying that, i'm sure there are plenty of places onlien where you can get other colours if you want.
Clang wrote:Multiple rod colours available at extra cost from Mail Order? - maybe. For free in every necron box? - I doubt it.
Plastruct makes several different colors of fluorescent rod. You'll have to cut to length yourself, but it's not very expensive. Use the search function and search for the word "fluorescent" at this link.
Clang wrote:Multiple rod colours available at extra cost from Mail Order? - maybe. For free in every necron box? - I doubt it.
Plastruct makes several different colors of fluorescent rod. You'll have to cut to length yourself, but it's not very expensive. Use the search function and search for the word "fluorescent" at this link.
hey, thank you! but what size are the necron gauss rods? and where might i get purple ones?
Clang wrote:Multiple rod colours available at extra cost from Mail Order? - maybe. For free in every necron box? - I doubt it.
Plastruct makes several different colors of fluorescent rod. You'll have to cut to length yourself, but it's not very expensive. Use the search function and search for the word "fluorescent" at this link.
hey, thank you! but what size are the necron gauss rods? and where might i get purple ones?
I'd think your best bet would be taking one you already own (or get one from a Cron friend, I THINK they are 1" but don't take my word for it!) and cutting the rod from their link respectively, if they don't offer purple, might I suggest the Lego Starwars Mace Windu Light Saber bit (you can probably pick it up by itself online ((Ebay/Lego Part Vendor)) or from a Lego Store if you are lucky!)
Balance wrote: It would be kind of like if one faction got true 'flyers' (as per the older rules) with all the associated rules and no one had AA weapons, etc.
Sooo.... Kinda like most 5th edition codexes vs non 5th edition codexes?
Not really. I'm thinking more like if the old FW flyer rules. The current Stormraven, Valkyrie, etc. are a bit weird, but they can be shot normally. The FW rules (this was under 3rd edition, i think) were such that if Player A ahd a flyer and got Player B to agree to allow it's use, Player A's flyer could rampage pretty much without fear as normal units had trouble targeting it.
Be careful if you want to order blue rods from Plastruct. I did that for my necrons first time around and they weren't very blue at all. Very pale and almost transparent. I ended up having to coat em with blue ink to get a real blue look to em.
I think the green rods are fine, other color options might be nice, but I don't see GW doing that..
Well, if Necrons come in July, I may just have to make them a Birthday present to myself. I already want to make my own plastic Pariahs using Catachan jungle fighters mixed with basic 'Cron warriors. I actually like the terminator look of them, and if the warriors are getting new plastic, I'll have to buy up the old stuff
I just did my first squad with RED.. I LOVE red. I have a VERy dark necrom paint scheme. Black with Tin bits then Boltgun dry brushing, heavy black wash. With the Red that squad looks great for me.. ( my painting sucks)
At Black Library live yesterday in the Space Marine seminar, with James Swallow and Nick Kyme, some one asked about doing more Space Marine vs Necron books.
James reply was that it was unlikely at the moment because Matt Ward was currently working on them, and writing there background.
He also added that we would also likely see there behaviour change in a big way and wanted to say more but Nick said that they were unable to talk about it at all.
Mat Ward massively rewriting the Necron background? Necrons are so doomed!
So can we expect extensive fluff wherein Necrons join forces with Space Marines against the terrible threat of teddy bears and remain partners for life/unlife?
Kroothawk wrote:Small tidbit by ac4155 over at Warseer:
At Black Library live yesterday in the Space Marine seminar, with James Swallow and Nick Kyme, some one asked about doing more Space Marine vs Necron books.
James reply was that it was unlikely at the moment because Matt Ward was currently working on them, and writing there background.
He also added that we would also likely see there behaviour change in a big way and wanted to say more but Nick said that they were unable to talk about it at all.
Mat Ward massively rewriting the Necron background? Necrons are so doomed!
Well if Matt Ward likes Necrons as much as marines then Necrons might get a promotion from target practice. Hmm I wonder who the Necron spiritual liege is...
i like the idea that necrons are growing more individualised; instead of fighting "nameless Lord and random necrons" you are fighting the "Everliving Phalanxes of Ebony Lord Shar'kaer'daro"
doesn't the latter seem cooler? with Shar'kaer'daro and whoever he is fighting developing a rivalry etc.
Reecius wrote:If Matt Ward is writing the book then I am happy. I think the SM codex is the best, most balanced, fun and customizable codex GW gas ever produced.
I can't wait to see what they do with the line!
you obviously were NOT around in third and forth edition then.... those marine codex had much much more options compared to the crap that's in the book now. let's not also forget how ward basically ruined the nids, seeing as they went from an army that could do something to a target practice dummy now
Reecius wrote:If Matt Ward is writing the book then I am happy. I think the SM codex is the best, most balanced, fun and customizable codex GW gas ever produced.
I can't wait to see what they do with the line!
So, now we know what Matt Ward posts as on these boards.
I think we'll learn that the Necrons are all mini-dreadnoughts crewed by ancient space marines, led by the Emperor himself! Because no single living metal body could contain his MightyAwesomeness (tm) he split himself into 4 equal parts that were greater than the whole. He called them Star Gods, because they were the superstars of the gods, and were too good for the warp. In a terrible twist, the very planet the emperor split on blew into 4 chunks from the process, and the parts of the emp had to galaxy surf on them until they slowed down long enough for them to jump off. Now, the 4 parts are working their way back towards each other.
yes i'm talking about the fluff. 4th ED nids were awesomeness both in rules and fluff, 5th ED kinda killed it for me though as the fluff went bad and the rules went worse
Gitzbitah wrote:I think we'll learn that the Necrons are all mini-dreadnoughts crewed by ancient space marines, led by the Emperor himself! Because no single living metal body could contain his MightyAwesomeness (tm) he split himself into 4 equal parts that were greater than the whole. He called them Star Gods, because they were the superstars of the gods, and were too good for the warp. In a terrible twist, the very planet the emperor split on blew into 4 chunks from the process, and the parts of the emp had to galaxy surf on them until they slowed down long enough for them to jump off. Now, the 4 parts are working their way back towards each other.
And somehow, each of those four parts have managed to carve "Emprah wuz here!" on the hearts of all the Chaos Primarchs!!! They're like Draigo multiplied by *mentally counts all the Traitor Primarchs* uhh... a lot!
TyraelVladinhurst wrote:yes i'm talking about the fluff. 4th ED nids were awesomeness both in rules and fluff, 5th ED kinda killed it for me though as the fluff went bad and the rules went worse
Well, Mat Ward has nothing to do with the Tyranid Codex.
And the 4th edition Codex had only one viable build for tournaments, the unfluffy Carnifex spam. And they autolost against fully mechanised armies, so practically everyone.
BTW I love the 5th edition Tyranid Codex for its variety and modelling options, but then again I am not a competitive player.
I have to admit that looking at the current crons list they are stat wise essentialy marines-even their basic weapons at a glance have the stats of bolters. as for the "we'll be back" i think its a shamble-dead cant move even if they are crons-sigh-please please change these things and many more i dont have time to mention here.
It actually surprises me how few people like the lack of individuality amoungst Necrons. Honestly that was a SELLING point for me! An unstoppable metal tide, whose very visage means death in any language? Yes, thank you. Their warriors do not utter battle cries to unspeakable gods. Only silence preceeds them, only silence their wake.
Only immortals and above having any semblance of personality, and that so alien, so far removed from any humanoid being, that they are utterly incomprehensable.
Their motivations are their own. Their language: their own. Yours is not to understand them. Yours is only to die to fuel their inhumane thirst.
Resistance is futile.
~~~~~
Why in the bloody blue blazes do you need ANYTHING besides THAT? My lords had personality, but my OPPONANT never got to see it. It was given to my enemies only to die. To weep and keen over the bodies of the slain.
Matt Ward. I spit on his grave. Ever since the Demons book for WHFB I have hated the man. He has yet to redeem himself.
Reecius wrote:If Matt Ward is writing the book then I am happy.
notsureifserious.jpg
N0, I am being dead serious. Matt Ward writes good rules. Very good rules, IMO. (At least for 40K, some of his Fantasy work is appalling).
If he writes a book for Crons as good as BA or SM were for 40K, then it will be a great book with lots of options and a powerful army that isn't overpowered.
As for the fluff? As long as they don't change what they have too much then they will be fine. Crons have a great background as is. Some more details would be nice, but we'll wait and see. I am more concerned with how they will play on the table at this point. All the cool fluff in the world doesn't make the Crons not a horrible army that no one wants to play, now.
Reecius wrote:If Matt Ward is writing the book then I am happy. I think the SM codex is the best, most balanced, fun and customizable codex GW gas ever produced.
I can't wait to see what they do with the line!
The problem people have with Ward isn't so much the Marine codex - most of us will agree that it's a solid book with one or two snafus in it. People who complain about Ward are either using the Blood Angels codex as reference, or jumping mindlessly on the bandwagon.
Ward has occasional moments or lucidity, in which he writes moderately balanced rules (with a certain bias) .
At other times he writes torrid SM fanfiction and OP/Unbalanced rubbish.
Sometimes this happens in the same codex/armybook.
We can only hope he took his meds this time (not that i'd object to using an OP as hell necron codex for maybe a game or two, to wipe the condescending smiles off the players I set up opposite, but i'd much rather a balanced-with-the-current-power-level codex with fluff that doesn't take a left turn directly into lala land...
I think the silliness of the BA codex is kind of endearing, I don't hate Ward, but there's a few things he could work on. The SM codex is very well done too, quite balanced IMO.
It's just that his fluff writing is kinda...well...bad.
Brother SRM wrote:The problem people have with Ward isn't so much the Marine codex - most of us will agree that it's a solid book with one or two snafus in it. People who complain about Ward are either using the Blood Angels codex as reference, or jumping mindlessly on the bandwagon.
Well, let's not forget: Mat Ward single handedly shot down game balance of 7th edition Warhammer Fantasy (OTT Daemons of Chaos army book countering lower tier O&G army book), which was slightly corrected by the 8th edition rules also credited to him.
And his background texts are not very subtle, more fitting a He-Man ad.
Considering that 8th ed is an unmitigable slaughterfest that negates the use of the movement phase for strategic purposes and rewards only armies with masses of s5 attacks, then yes. All of my Matt Ward hate is due solely to his WHFB contributions, which are truly, utterly, horrifying.
I can only hope your wrong about Ward because not only has all this talk made me nervous about the codex, but I would be extremely upset if the fluff gets destroyed and the army rules made mediocre. As long as Necrons players had to wait for this codex, if it gets made poorly most of us will have to change armies for good.
Noir Eternal wrote:I can only hope your wrong about Ward because not only has all this talk made me nervous about the codex, but I would be extremely upset if the fluff gets destroyed and the army rules made mediocre. As long as Necrons players had to wait for this codex, if it gets made poorly most of us will have to change armies for good.
That's the one thing that terrifies me more than anything. If the book is absolutely terribad , then I will have to abandon Necrons for probably 6-9 years :(
I play with them now and they are considered horrible. I'll play with them updated and still reap a tally fitting my metal children of death incarnate. Either way, it's an excuse to want to buy new models as I've basically maxed the force org charts to the brim with everything barring the Deceiver.
Kurgash wrote:I play with them now and they are considered horrible. I'll play with them updated and still reap a tally fitting my metal children of death incarnate. Either way, it's an excuse to want to buy new models as I've basically maxed the force org charts to the brim with everything barring the Deceiver.
How can you own everything but the Deciever He's so cool.
But, I'm with you here. No amount of rule mangling or fluff strangling will make me abandon my machinophilia for the necrons.
If the new Necron codex is horrible, Necron players will deal. They've been playing with a subpar book for years, and it would at least change things up a bit.
Not that I'm wishing for Necrons to get a bad codex, but whichever way the Ward swings on this one can't hurt them too bad.
Noir Eternal wrote:I can only hope your wrong about Ward because not only has all this talk made me nervous about the codex, but I would be extremely upset if the fluff gets destroyed and the army rules made mediocre. As long as Necrons players had to wait for this codex, if it gets made poorly most of us will have to change armies for good.
That's the one thing that terrifies me more than anything. If the book is absolutely terribad , then I will have to abandon Necrons for probably 6-9 years :(
I've dealt with an under-powered out of date codex for many years now. At least a new one will be a change of pace.
Oh yeah, like I said, Matt Ward's Fantasy work is garbage. Daemons single handedly made me not like to play Fantasy anymore.
But like I said, his 40K work has been great. BA and SM are good, balanced, well rounded books with solid rules and lots of options and builds. I don't care much about the fluff in a Codex to be honest. I get my fluff fix from BL novels and fluff specific books. A codex for me is simply a resource to play the game.
Cool! I'm looking forward to them. FNP is pretty.... Tough; but it should be manageable if the army is more 'elite' (like gk).
I'm hoping against vehicles other than the monolith. If they get transports, they'll be impossible to kill, I think (living metal+FNP guys inside would be murder)
Samus_aran115 wrote:Cool! I'm looking forward to them. FNP is pretty.... Tough; but it should be manageable if the army is more 'elite' (like gk).
I'm hoping against vehicles other than the monolith. If they get transports, they'll be impossible to kill, I think (living metal+FNP guys inside would be murder)
But cool!
They would be Plague Marines, no longer Necrons. This is why WBB shouldn't be replaced by FNP but rather adjusted or streamlined. WBB isn't the problem with the codex, I dunno why its been the popular thing to talk about.
asimo77 wrote:yeah I never found WBB to be particularly confusing. Hell most of the Necron rules are straightforward, just kinda bad
And for those that just can't stand keeping track of everything for WBB, they could just streamline it a bit.
Under the current rules, if a unit doesn't have a living member or a living unit of the same type close enough then the Necrons don't have a chance to get back up. If there is a Res Orb close enough, then they do still get their rolls. The basic gist of everything is Necrons can resurrect if they aren't isolated or if they have a Res Orb within range. This strays a little bit from the fluff of the Necrons as resurrection can be disallowed. To correct this, enhance the strength of the codex, and maintain the fluff I suggest the following:
Necrons ALWAYS get WBB rolls regardless of circumstances. In response to this, make WBB a 5+ to start and have modifiers that will enhance or hurt the roll based on what is going on on the table. Same type of unit in range? Give it a +1. Res Orb in range? Give them another +1. Unit is above 50% could be another +1. If the unit is wiped out then it could be a -1. AP1, AP2, and Instant Death could be another -1 with a roll of 6 always being a successful resurrection. Basically, turn WBB into a vehicle damage chart type roll with modifiers. It would take more time to learn then FNP or the current WBB but once the player knows the modifiers, it would be very quick to resolve just like vehicle damage. It would reward Res Orbs and the "wave of metal" type playstyle that suits Necrons so well while also allowing for Necrons to always pop back up (as they should). To balance this, the base roll is worse then the current and FNP and negative modifiers reward the opponent for a decisive victory or devastating weapons.
I know that can be construed as Wishlisting and I don't intend to do so. I just want to illustrate that WBB can be tweaked to the preservation of fluffy gameplay while also adding a risk/reward factor to the Necron playstyle in the general spirit of 40K as a whole (gutsy decisions and random dice rolling).
prime12357 wrote:It's phase out that needs to go away.
As an opponent of Necrons (I don't play them, but I have taken over a friend's Necrons many times in friendly doubles games when said friend needed to take off) I think Phase Out is one of the best parts of the codex. Necrons are supposed to be frightening, unstoppable even. To reflect this, I would like to see them amped up in power beyond their point costs but keep the Phase Out rule. This would mean that victories against Necrons are rarely a traditional game of objective grabbing and more often a desperate rush to force Phase Out. I also like that they don't count all models towards Phase Out as it prevents a player from loading up on super-powerful units. The reason why this isn't fair with the current codex is how weak the "Necron" rule models are in general. To keep the current structure for Phase Out, they would have to enhance the "Necron" units to make them attractive in ways other then preventing Phase Out.
Like with WBB, I don't think the Phase Out or "Necron" rules are the problems but just the overall stats and points costs of all the models. Most of the special rules for Necrons are great but they aren't coupled with extremely powerful units that would balance the special rules. Fix that and I think WBB and Phase Out would be great parts of the game.
I don't think Necrons should get transports, per se, since that makes them too much like Marines. However, more teleporting options would keep things interesting and distinctive. Figure something like teleportation relays, and Necrons warping from beacon to vehicle-mounted beacon every turn.
Kurgash wrote:I play with them now and they are considered horrible. I'll play with them updated and still reap a tally fitting my metal children of death incarnate. Either way, it's an excuse to want to buy new models as I've basically maxed the force org charts to the brim with everything barring the Deceiver.
How can you own everything but the Deciever He's so cool.
But, I'm with you here. No amount of rule mangling or fluff strangling will make me abandon my machinophilia for the necrons.
Personally, regarding Matt's other work, I'm trying to figure out why in the world the Necrons and Blood Angels would ever have worked together to stomp on the Tyranids.
It just doesn't seem to jive with the Tyranid 'dex talking about how they have avoided tomb worlds... I figured that the Necrons being just robots pretty much precluded the Tyranids from having any sort of reason to attack them. After all, the Tyranids are after biomatter, which the 'Crons obviously haven't got. Heck, if I was the 'cron commander in that situation I would have just sent my troops back to the tomb and waited for the Tyranids to eat the blood angels and leave. Seems like a much easier way to get your planet back.
One of my armies is necrons; and it's my favorite. It was the first I collected and is probably the largest by way of points value.
If I had one wish it would be for GW to continue the story line and have the void dragon awake. That would be pure awesomeness. Not holding my breath for it; although I have to admit continual expansion of the story line was one thing that I really liked about BattleTech.
I don't need named 'cron lords. Just a few minor changes with Pariahs, an update to WBB, and a complete overhaul of phase out; losing 75% shouldn't mean game over. Maybe losing 75% of a unit means it has to try and do a WBB roll in order to come back through an available monolith would be cool... Or even if they fail a morale check (again 75% shooting casualties or from a lost close combat) they have to try a WBB in order to not be completely run off the table.
Besides that the last thing would be to make the metal models MUCH cheaper by selling them in plastic boxed sets. $15 to $20 or so a guy is a bit expensive.
Either way, here's hoping that a new necron codex somehow manages to make the army good enough to kick the crap out of the blood angels. I want to see those marines cry like the little babies they really are.
clively wrote:Personally, regarding Matt's other work, I'm trying to figure out why in the world the Necrons and Blood Angels would ever have worked together to stomp on the Tyranids.
It just doesn't seem to jive with the Tyranid 'dex talking about how they have avoided tomb worlds... I figured that the Necrons being just robots pretty much precluded the Tyranids from having any sort of reason to attack them. After all, the Tyranids are after biomatter, which the 'Crons obviously haven't got. Heck, if I was the 'cron commander in that situation I would have just sent my troops back to the tomb and waited for the Tyranids to eat the blood angels and leave. Seems like a much easier way to get your planet back.
As I understand it, the Necrons and Blood Angels were aware of the other's presence but the two forces were fighting the Tyranids on complete opposite sides of the planet.
As for why they didn't engage after the Tyranids, well both forces had to be weakened by the conflict though the Blood Angels would be hurt worse since they can't resurrect like Necrons. Since it was a Tomb World, the Necrons would have probably advanced on the Blood Angels had they stuck around after.
The Necrons would have just waited for the two groups to get done killing each other, and then mopped up...
They also would have fought the Bangles until they won or phased out. What happens when they phase out? The re-appear at the nearest tomb world- right where they were... One quick repair job and off they go again, fully restored
Matt is a clueless wonder for fluff.
I don't see anything about being on opposite sides of the planet in the Blood Angels codex.
Also, what happened to purge the xeno, burn the heretic etc et al. I seem to rememember this being the modus operandi for the Astartes? Feeling distaste for wiping out a xeno race they fought alongside is a new one, and borders on (if not swan-dives into) heresy.
Ascalam wrote:The Necrons would have just waited for the two groups to get done killing each other, and then mopped up...
They also would have fought the Bangles until they won or phased out. What happens when they phase out? The re-appear at the nearest tomb world- right where they were... One quick repair job and off they go again, fully restored
Matt is a clueless wonder for fluff.
I don't see anything about being on opposite sides of the planet in the Blood Angels codex.
Also, what happened to purge the xeno, burn the heretic etc et al. I seem to rememember this being the modus operandi for the Astartes? Feeling distaste for wiping out a xeno race they fought alongside is a new one, and borders on (if not swan-dives into) heresy.
*edited for clarity*
The opposite sides of the planet part is just what I've seen be the dominant interpretation through my FLGS and on various message boards, hence "my understanding of it" rather then "this is exactly what happened."
As for why the Necrons wouldn't kill the Blood Angels, I think you are completely right in your assumptions. They would absolutely move against them after the Tyranids are gone, they are practically immortal and like you said wouldn't phase out at all. Reminds me of characters being killed in Hell in South Park, "yeah well where was he gonna go, Detroit?"
The thing that would make the most sense that would stop a Necrons vs Blood Angels showdown would be the losses taken by the Blood Angels during the campaign against the Tyranids. Blood Angels (and all Astartes for that matter) are xenophobic crusaders but they aren't stupid. If they aren't fit to immediately engage another foe after finishing a campaign they are going to withdraw, regroup, and THEN consider attacking. I don't know if this is what Mr. Ward intended with his narrative but I think it is a logical explanation to the whole thing, at least more so then considering the Blood Angels and Necrons actual allies.
PS: Ascalam, I love your sig. Can't stand overzealous advocates of RAW, ruining the thematic qualities of the game by trying to cheese some loophole to victory.
Reecius wrote:But like I said, his 40K work has been great.
An extreme matter of debate.
Reecius wrote:BA and SM are good, balanced, well rounded books with solid rules and lots of options and builds [and] I don't care much about the fluff in a Codex to be honest.
I'm the opposite. I don't care much about the rules. I care more about the fluff. The Marine Codex is only the start of Ward's bat-gak insane fascination with all things Marine. We get the very early beginnings of his obsession with Roboute Guilliman, his love of the Ultramarines, the 'everyone wants to be an ultramarine/spiritual liege' stuff. It's fairly low key though.
Blood Angels hit and suddenly every weapon has the word Blood in it and we've got Jesus The Space Marine Mary-Sue-ing it across the galaxy taking names. It's a mess.
And then the Grey Knights take that just one step beyond... beyond sanity, beyond reason... Draigo. Good Lord, the Draigo entry. *sigh*
That and the GK Codex is a complete mess as well. The damn thing's just hard to read, let alone use. Jervis' 'let's have a Wargear section' has been twisted beyond all belief by this point.
So the idea of Matt Ward writing a Necron Codex is horrific for me. The rules might turn out balanced (like the Marine Codex), slightly kooky (like the BA Codex), or pants-on-head-slowed (GK Codex)... but the fluff will be third rate 15-year-old fanfictiony nonsense, and that's awful.
The necron dex has the best collection of unconfirmed fluff and fluff-seeds in any codex i've read. You could go in an almost infinite number of awesome directions with the stuff implied heavily in there...
Want to bet that instead we get a rip off of the Terminator movies plotline, with sarah connor as a ticked off Sororitas and Kyle Rees as a Space Marine captain?
Ah well. If it turns out to be the heaping pile of Grox dung i expect i can always sell my 6000 + Pt army to the powergamers who want in on the next uber-powerful release by Mr Ward....
mortal hero, fairly potent from what i've heard rumored...
versus a PRIMARCH?
Um, no!
If this is what the fluff-writers are getting through post proofreading (if there is any- a matter of debate) i'm going to seriously have to consider switching games before Ward makes the Deceiver Dante's boytoy or something....
But it's not the carving of the name upon Mortarion's heart that's the bad part about Draigo's entry. A Grey Knight Chapter Master taking on a Daemon Primarch I don't have that much of an issue with. It happened with Angron (though there were 100+/- GK's in that fight). The issue is the childish narrative structure he weaves into the story that makes you sit back and go "Does he re-read what he writes, or does he just move onto the next absurd feat?"
I mean look at this:
Draigo beat down a Daemon Prince. And then he carved his fallen master's name into Mortarion's heart! And then he got sucked into the Warp but he had lost his blade! And then he killed a Bloodthirster with his bare hands. And made a new blade out of the Bloodthirsters axe. And then he burnt down Nurgle's entire garden! And then he defeated M'kachen! And then he destroyed Tzeentch's big city! And then he buried M'kachen under the rubble. And then he fought the Daemon Prince he fought before and beat him again.
H.B.M.C. wrote:But it's not the carving of the name upon Mortarion's heart that's the bad part about Draigo's entry. A Grey Knight Chapter Master taking on a Daemon Primarch I don't have that much of an issue with. It happened with Angron (though there were 100+/- GK's in that fight). The issue is the childish narrative structure he weaves into the story that makes you sit back and go "Does he re-read what he writes, or does he just move onto the next absurd feat?"
I mean look at this:
Draigo beat down a Daemon Prince.
And then he carved his fallen master's name into Mortarion's heart!
And then he got sucked into the Warp but he had lost his blade!
And then he killed a Bloodthirster with his bare hands.
And made a new blade out of the Bloodthirsters axe.
And then he burnt down Nurgle's entire garden!
And then he defeated M'kachen!
And then he destroyed Tzeentch's big city!
And then he buried M'kachen under the rubble.
And then he fought the Daemon Prince he fought before and beat him again.
Does anyone else remember a Necron Codex rumour that said that the rules were finalised, its just that Matt Ward is having trouble with the fluff. If this means that they'll draft in other writers to help...
I haven't copied the text verbatim, but yes, that is the story of Grand Master Draigo of the Grey Knights, a new special character in the GK Codex.
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Ascalam wrote:Unless they draft in Arbitrary Cruddace, Inventor and Destroyer of (craft)worlds...
Arby got his name after what he did to the Guard, but the story of the Doom of Malantai really solidified his claim to the grand title of 'Arbitrary'. If you ever have doubts that 40K's fluff is completely arbitrary and can be chopped and changed at the whim of a writer, look no further than anything Cruddance has done.
Reecius wrote:But like I said, his 40K work has been great.
An extreme matter of debate.
Reecius wrote:BA and SM are good, balanced, well rounded books with solid rules and lots of options and builds [and] I don't care much about the fluff in a Codex to be honest.
I'm the opposite. I don't care much about the rules. I care more about the fluff. The Marine Codex is only the start of Ward's bat-gak insane fascination with all things Marine. We get the very early beginnings of his obsession with Roboute Guilliman, his love of the Ultramarines, the 'everyone wants to be an ultramarine/spiritual liege' stuff. It's fairly low key though.
Blood Angels hit and suddenly every weapon has the word Blood in it and we've got Jesus The Space Marine Mary-Sue-ing it across the galaxy taking names. It's a mess.
And then the Grey Knights take that just one step beyond... beyond sanity, beyond reason... Draigo. Good Lord, the Draigo entry. *sigh*
That and the GK Codex is a complete mess as well. The damn thing's just hard to read, let alone use. Jervis' 'let's have a Wargear section' has been twisted beyond all belief by this point.
So the idea of Matt Ward writing a Necron Codex is horrific for me. The rules might turn out balanced (like the Marine Codex), slightly kooky (like the BA Codex), or pants-on-head-slowed (GK Codex)... but the fluff will be third rate 15-year-old fanfictiony nonsense, and that's awful.
Yeah, I understand. Different strokes for different folks.
I suppose the best of both worlds would be to have Phil Kelly write them all!
But seriously, the gakky fluff in the dexes is why I stopped reading it. I would rather read it on librarium online or wikipedia where at least it is just facts and not third rate fan-fiction level bad, crap. Most of the fluff for the game, while fascinating, is so poorly delivered that I can't read it. That is why novels like Soul Hunter or Storm of Iron are so nice, they are actually readable and enjoyable.
That is why the codex for me is just rules these days. I read the fluff more out of a sense of duty, but don't put much mind to it.
Nah if Phil writes it every second unit will be utter death to Tyranids as Phil continues his passive-aggressive war against Arby for doing the 'Nid Codex instead of him.
Does anyone else remember a Necron Codex rumour that said that the rules were finalised, its just that Matt Ward is having trouble with the fluff. If this means that they'll draft in other writers to help...
We might not be doomed!
That rumour wasn't quite right however.
At Black Library live yesterday in the Space Marine seminar, with James Swallow and Nick Kyme, some one asked about doing more Space Marine vs Necron books.
James reply was that it was unlikely at the moment because Matt Ward was currently working on them, and writing there background.
He also added that we would also likely see there behaviour change in a big way and wanted to say more but Nick said that they were unable to talk about it at all.
..hmm... I feel obliged to point out that "Fall of Damnos" features Necrons.
That's written by Mr. Kyme, who you might remember also featured the Dark Eldar -- including new background odds and sods -- in a previous novel too.
H.B.M.C. wrote:Nah if Phil writes it every second unit will be utter death to Tyranids as Phil continues his passive-aggressive war against Arby for doing the 'Nid Codex instead of him.
asimo77 wrote:So is there anyone who writes good codexes then?
Phil Kelly largely writes good codices. I think Cruddace and Ward each have a good codex each, with one subpar/wacky codex that came out afterward (IG to Tyranids, Marines to Blood Bloods)
Samus_aran115 wrote: If they get transports, they'll be impossible to kill, I think (living metal+FNP guys inside would be murder)
And the problem with that will be...?
Scarey Nerd wrote:Does anyone else remember a Necron Codex rumour that said that the rules were finalised, its just that Matt Ward is having trouble with the fluff. If this means that they'll draft in other writers to help...
How many multilasers do you think Monoliths will have in the new book? I suspect 4 at a minimum.
asimo77 wrote:So is there anyone who writes good codexes then?
Phil Kelly largely writes good codices. I think Cruddace and Ward each have a good codex each, with one subpar/wacky codex that came out afterward (IG to Tyranids, Marines to Blood Bloods)
IG is considered a well-done codex? Really? It is no mystery why every codex release sees the discovery of a new combo in IG that keeps it as God Tier. The thing is just so outrageously versatile and undercosted to the point of being broken. For 20 points less IG gets twice as many BS4 models as Tactical Squads in their Veterans who also have better access to special weapons and some of the best transports in the game via the Chimera and Valkyrie/Vendetta. Sure they are inferior to Tactical Marines in combat but if your ChiMeltaVets are in close combat then you are doing something horribly wrong. The IG codex identifies that IG are supposed to win through massed shooting but they have literally no sacrifices in their unit choices to balance the awesome that you get. And 9 heavy support choices is okay? Vendettas are fast and have three TL Lascannons for 150 points while Tri-Las Predators have to sit still and only have TL on one for 15 more points?
Sorry, I'm way off topic, I'll stop my little rant.
As far as the rumors go it worries me that the rules are said to be finished and everyone indicates at the removal of WBB. I've been seriously considering starting Necrons as I love the way they look with a splash of gold but dumping WBB for FNP will certainly kill some of the cool factor in my opinion. I'm sure they will be plenty competitive though so you loyal Necron players will finally get whats due to you.
half the peopel on here cvan write a half decent codex! At least the majority of the fandexes i've seen are pretty good.
Although that may be due to the fact that most of the writers here actually heed comments and make accordign changes to improve their work.
Praxiss wrote:Although that may be due to the fact that most of the writers here actually heed comments and make accordign changes to improve their work.
This is a great idea, why doesn't GW consult their fanbase about directions to take with the fluff? They wouldn't have to divulge any massive spoilers and compromise the work put into the newest book but they could ask general questions and hold community polls on their site. Perhaps have a special fluff-centric membership program where they share more intimate details about the story in progress to receive feedback from those who are diehards about GW fluff.
H.B.M.C. wrote:But it's not the carving of the name upon Mortarion's heart that's the bad part about Draigo's entry. A Grey Knight Chapter Master taking on a Daemon Primarch I don't have that much of an issue with. It happened with Angron (though there were 100+/- GK's in that fight). The issue is the childish narrative structure he weaves into the story that makes you sit back and go "Does he re-read what he writes, or does he just move onto the next absurd feat?"
I mean look at this:
snip
I agree that it is a bit over the top, but I like OTT. H.B.M.C. is an OTT poster and I still like him.
The thing you have to keep in mind is that a lot of these entries are legend about the character. Was Paul Bunyan 20 foot tall and drank rivers for breakfast? Probably not. Did Draigo literally carve his name into Mortarion's heart? Unlikely. The whole Draigo section does start with 'The tale of Draigo starts...' That being said, fact checking:
- He struck the killing blow on the Daemon Prince, it wasn't one on one.
- I think the heart thing is kinda silly. Was Mortarion waving the heart around? Or is this more like, he carved his name on his heart (breastplate). The literal text is that 'to carve his forbear's name on Mortarion's rotting heart'
- Before being sucked into the warp, he held a pass against the chaos hordes for a couple days and didn't miss once. (No mention of how big it was. This is the kind of thing Space Marines just do though. I think Calgar did it as well and I'm sure if we look back through fluff there are others.)
- He fought the DP again (with 200+ years more experience) and barely won, getting sucked into the warp. (as above) His sword was shattered, but he still had the hilt and stump of the blade.
- He travelled for an 'uncounted age'. I'm guessing he got a little XP at some point during the 'uncounted age'. It is unclear how long 'uncounted age' is, but the other stuff happens during this time. I personally think this guy is more like a Dark Wanderer type character, forced to walk forever and cursed to live kind of thing.
- He kills a BT with his stump sword and uses the BT's axe to reforge his sword.
- He didn't burn down Nurgle's entire garden. He 'unleashed cleansing flame in the jungles of Nurgle's domain'.
- He defeated some temptress Daemonettes. Woo big deal there. lol - He did take out a Lord of Change and buried him in a city. That was pretty impressive and a bit OTT. Killing a LoC, okay. Burying him in a city, umm, maybe big psychic discharge?
- He has killed thousands of daemons and they pretty much leave him alone now unless they have to deal with him. (Except for Khorne's crazies). I can buy this. Even Daemon's aren't stupid. This guy is a walking death machine, do we really need to go mess with him?
- Oh and all of his works in the Realm of Chaos? They are fleeting. His entry also lists the jungles as regrowing, the city as rebuilt and all the slain demons as having been reborn in new bodies. This guy has one bum deal.
- He isn't listed as fighting that DP again though. He kills a prophet of that DP.
- He now walks forever and occasionally gets pulled into realspace.
Personally, these kinds of characters are what make 40k fun and crazy.
Solar Macharius bringing more worlds under Imperial rule than any other general since the crusade and personally leading a great many of them? Awesome!
Ragnar going into a death hive and coming out a couple months later none the worse for wear? Cool!
Primarchs who can fight legions of other marines and laugh in their face? Sweet.
Draigo being cursed to walk forever but never achieve lasting victory or defeat? I like it.
Lysander being lost in the warp for 1000 years and escaping from iron warriors naked and with his bare hands? I can dig it.
40k is OTT. That's just how it goes.
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SonicPara wrote:
Praxiss wrote:Although that may be due to the fact that most of the writers here actually heed comments and make accordign changes to improve their work.
This is a great idea, why doesn't GW consult their fanbase about directions to take with the fluff? They wouldn't have to divulge any massive spoilers and compromise the work put into the newest book but they could ask general questions and hold community polls on their site. Perhaps have a special fluff-centric membership program where they share more intimate details about the story in progress to receive feedback from those who are diehards about GW fluff.
Do Graham McNeill and Andy Hoare not write codexes any more? I'm not up to speed on GW writers, but those two are by far my favourite Codex writers, as both worked on the Necron Codex, Andy Hoare wrote the Tau codex, and I think the two of them together wrote Witchhunters. If they could partner up for the new Necron Codex, I would be very happy.
Angry Marines would be ruined if GW took over. The reason they are so popular is because they are hilarious, GW would screw that up horribly.
Also if they "listened to the fanbase" then the codices would all start to suck horribly as well. Everyone that plays said codex would want this super rule and that badass special ability. As much as it pains me to say it, it would be better if we just let them do their jobs. Every new edition of 40k comes with some armies being better and others not so much. Lets just keep it like that, other wise we will all be paying 50% higher prices to play warhammer 4+k
I didn't say game balance The rules are an entirely other story from the fluff...
I was hoping against hope that someone likes the fluff in the current codex, and doesn't want it butchered
All I ask (and i know i'll be disappointed) is a codex that isn't free advertising for the Astartes, but instead makes my chosen army look good, in their own book. The novels and main fluff will always be Marines Uber Alles, but a race's codex really should brag up that race.
A good example of that would be the Ork codex. There are a few defeats in there, but they aren't marine fanwank with a single marine holding off a whole waagh or headbutting Ghazgkull to death in one blow...
Most of the timeline/fluff section deals with either ork wins, or very orky losses like the warboss who travels accidentally back in time to before he left, hunts himself down and kills himself to get a spare copy of his best shoota, causing the waagh to just grind to a halt in the confusion with his death..
H.B.M.C. wrote:Nah if Phil writes it every second unit will be utter death to Tyranids as Phil continues his passive-aggressive war against Arby for doing the 'Nid Codex instead of him.
Hello guys... I will keep saying WBB os feel no pain, the only diference is the time you do the second test...
I really dont understand why this around WBB/FnP, the rules are almost the same, you just give a diferent excuse for FnP...
When i was young i quit Magic: the Gathering (TCG) because of this "each edition increase power, and the new edition is the most powerfull" thing. As i am in the hobby for the last 6 months, all i have seem is are the releases of Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Dark Eldar and now Gray Knights. Someone that is around for more time, can tell me if this "new codex is the more powerfull" thing is new?
If it is, i just knew where it will end, and so, i will wait for Mantic Sci Fi set...
The Dwarf Wolf wrote:Hello guys... I will keep saying WBB os feel no pain, the only diference is the time you do the second test...
I really dont understand why this around WBB/FnP, the rules are almost the same, you just give a diferent excuse for FnP...
When i was young i quit Magic: the Gathering (TCG) because of this "each edition increase power, and the new edition is the most powerfull" thing. As i am in the hobby for the last 6 months, all i have seem is are the releases of Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Dark Eldar and now Gray Knights. Someone that is around for more time, can tell me if this "new codex is the more powerfull" thing is new?
If it is, i just knew where it will end, and so, i will wait for Mantic Sci Fi set...
Because with FnP you can't blob together squads and make a giant squadron of Destroyers who just look at infantry/tanks and kill them.
That's why the most recent codecii, which have been rather unbalanced or not-so-wonderful (except for DE, which is more or less balanced IMO) have managed to get through unchallenged
I think they're probably leaving the game balance checking (or not...) in the hands of the codex writer. Gods help us.
Well alessio is still mentioned in the games development part of the de codex, so i guess he did balance it. also they had been working on it for a long time.
The Dwarf Wolf wrote:Someone that is around for more time, can tell me if this "new codex is the more powerfull" thing is new?
Allegations toward such a concept have been around for a long time. We call it 'codex creep'. And GW has been insisting that it doesn't happen. And that all codices are created in a vacuum, where previous codices do not influence their development... But evidence to the contrary has me convinced otherwise. Tyranids were okay when they were released. But much of what has been released since appears engineered to counter Nids. And I'm betting Necrons and GK will beat the snot out of DE, despite DE appearing hearty and balanced currently.
The Dwarf Wolf wrote:Hello guys... I will keep saying WBB os feel no pain, the only diference is the time you do the second test...
I really dont understand why this around WBB/FnP, the rules are almost the same, you just give a diferent excuse for FnP...
The difference should be clear, lets go with a hyperbole example as to why FnP is worse then WBB for the most part.
20 warriors get bladestormed for 40 wounds. Lets say 32 get thru ( bad rollin ;_; ) that is either 32 4+s (so, 16 dead) or 20 Wbbs (assuming res orb/suitable nearby unit obviously) which would only yeild 10 dead, and if you use a monolith to "reroll" then you are looking at 5 lost necrons.
5 lost necrons >>>>>>>>>>> 16 lost necrons. At least, in my opinion anyway.
The Dwarf Wolf wrote:
When i was young i quit Magic: the Gathering (TCG) because of this "each edition increase power, and the new edition is the most powerfull" thing. As i am in the hobby for the last 6 months, all i have seem is are the releases of Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Dark Eldar and now Gray Knights. Someone that is around for more time, can tell me if this "new codex is the more powerfull" thing is new?
Umm... MTG works the opposite way (at least, as far as it was when I was playing). It seems each edition gets WEAKER in time... hell, the Power 9 are all Type 1 IIRC ((or Legacy, whatever they call it these days) where as in Type 2 cards typically have similar effects to their old versions, with a few catches added in (more mana, requires a sacrifice of life/a land/ a creature, requires discarding a card, only effects specific targets etc) perfect example would be Shock vs Lightning Bolt, shock is newer, both cost 1 red, shock deals 2, LB deals 3, both instant casts, both have same limitations (one just literally deals 1 more damage because it is older). The only real execption is that newer game mechanics are harder to counter in the meta (because they are new, so have not seen alot of play-time /counter-strating) but even those can be gimmicky at best, and at the end of the day I'll take Flashback, Madness or Dark Ritual over Entwine or "Splice into the arcane"(lame).
I think Warhammer sees alot of the same things (with the some small instances of simple "stat buffs" on things like Stormshields and base cost/stats of troops), sure the necrons might get a new mechanic (or 4) that makes them unknown and intimidating (as well as makes them far more interesting then their current incarnation) but thats part of the fun, I honestly hope the new dex is slowed OP, how hilarious would it be to see all the creep players drop another grand into an army that will last them till next codex launch (around 6 months) as it is almost a punishment in itself to those that play this way (as it is EXTREMELY expensive). I wouldn't mind having to finally legitimately worry about an army without an Aquila on it (kinda like Tyranids were before their FAQ came out). If the poetic justice of fate makes that army Necrons, I'll have myself a laugh, and start rollin dice!
SonicPara wrote:
The thing that would make the most sense that would stop a Necrons vs Blood Angels showdown would be the losses taken by the Blood Angels during the campaign against the Tyranids. Blood Angels (and all Astartes for that matter) are xenophobic crusaders but they aren't stupid. If they aren't fit to immediately engage another foe after finishing a campaign they are going to withdraw, regroup, and THEN consider attacking. I don't know if this is what Mr. Ward intended with his narrative but I think it is a logical explanation to the whole thing, at least more so then considering the Blood Angels and Necrons actual allies.
I agree. IIRC there was a situation where some marines (can't remember which ones right now) and Tau were fighting. Only to be interrupted by a tyranid splinter fleet. Once the 'nids were dealt with the tau and marines went right back at it. Burn the xenos and heretic... unless you're going to lose really really badly.
SonicPara wrote:
The thing that would make the most sense that would stop a Necrons vs Blood Angels showdown would be the losses taken by the Blood Angels during the campaign against the Tyranids. Blood Angels (and all Astartes for that matter) are xenophobic crusaders but they aren't stupid. If they aren't fit to immediately engage another foe after finishing a campaign they are going to withdraw, regroup, and THEN consider attacking. I don't know if this is what Mr. Ward intended with his narrative but I think it is a logical explanation to the whole thing, at least more so then considering the Blood Angels and Necrons actual allies.
I agree. IIRC there was a situation where some marines (can't remember which ones right now) and Tau were fighting. Only to be interrupted by a tyranid splinter fleet. Once the 'nids were dealt with the tau and marines went right back at it. Burn the xenos and heretic... unless you're going to lose really really badly.
IIRC, in the particular piece of fluff about BA and Necrons, it specifically says that the two forces went their seperate ways, because NEITHER side could stomach fighting recent allies. I agree taht it would make more sense that they would stop fighting because they've both taken such substantial losses, but what Mr Ward forgets is that Necrons most likely wouldn't fight the Tyranids, as they know that Tyranids avoid them. They'd just destroy the BA when they're diverted, then take on the Tyranids, in my opinion at least. Especially since if Necrons all die and phase out, they all teleport to the nearest convenient Tomb World, so their only losses are Scarab Swarms, Tomb Spyders and Tomb Stalker, all of which are easily built.
Scarey Nerd wrote:IIRC, in the particular piece of fluff about BA and Necrons, it specifically says that the two forces went their seperate ways, because NEITHER side could stomach fighting recent allies.
Thanks for informing us all that you're just parroting things you hear online without making the effort to check if they're true.
The text is actually quite specific in saying that the Necrons decided to cut their losses short and retreated, while the Blood Angels did the same on top of not wanting to bash heads with the xenos that just helped them survive. But visibly you know exactly how that battle panned out
It's just an odd piece of fluff all round. It never says that the Necrons felt any remorse over fighting their 'allies' but i find it bizarre that the Blood Angles would? Maybe it's an 'all undead together' thing...
Marines could care less about fighting against folk that they were fighting alongside. They've been known to gun down Imperial Guard that are between them and the enemy just to get there quicker, so i doubt they'd care less about evil soul-less robots.. (must try to find that bit of fluff. Maybe from the Epic rulebook? )
Necrons want everything in the universe dead or enslaved, but would likely deliberately phase out (they don't lose anything, as it all vanishes with them, including scarabs, liths, c'tan etc) and let one side batter at the other until one was left, then wipe them if they felt the need. Since Nids would be using biomass to to good purpose fighting Necrons even if they won (no biomass to rebuild from) the Nids might well withdraw had they won, and if the marines had won they'd have been pretty easy prey.
I get the feeling that Mtr Ward doesn't really 'get' ANY of the 40k army fluff, even the marines. They are xenocidal fascist monks in armour that consider their basic weapon to be a holy tool for killing everyhing non-human, and a fair bit of human as well..
Kroothawk wrote:And the 4th edition Codex had only one viable build for tournaments, the unfluffy Carnifex spam. And they autolost against fully mechanised armies, so practically everyone.
Mechanized lists were the norm in 4th
Tyranids lost to to mechanized lists in 4th
4th Edition
I think you are talking about 5th edition. Yes, that was hard for Tyranids who were stuck with the 4th edition codex. Prior to 5th edition, I didn't have a competive disadvatage against mechanized lists.
"...And, at least for the Blood Angels, the idea of turning on those they had so recently fought alongside, a rather distasteful one [victory]".
This quote seemed to suggest to me that it was implied that the Necrons didn't want to fight either. I've read the BA codex before, I merely misremembered. In either case, the fact remains that it's a distinctly odd move on the Necrons part at least, unless the new Codex is going to completely shift them into being much more sentient beings.
BA P16 wrote:Dante and the Silent King go their separate ways, both forces now too battleworn to guarantee victory over the other, and, at least for the Blood Angels, the idea of turning on those they had so recently fought alongside, a rather distasteful one.
I think that it shows depth in their character. Not every marine is a raving lunatic. I also think that it shows us that the Necrons will have more depth as well.
Necrons as they are portrayed in the 3rd ed codex don't really seem to 'think' that much and just are mindless killing machines, literally.
This makes it more like they have personality. I like the idea that the Necrons will be more three dimensional.
Also, from Dante's entry:
BA Codex wrote:Yet for all his success, or perhaps because of it, Dante has grown weary of his burdens. He has lived far longer than he should, and the burden of centuries grows ever weightier...
Dante is shown to be tired of the fighting and the burden of his rank and only continuing because he knows he has to be there to defend the Emperor.
Is it so out of character that he would tell his men to stand down to prevent needless bloodshed?
Not to mention he's listed as a 'Strategic Genius'. He knows when a battle is tactically unsound. Is it so out of character that he would withdraw to win another day when he had the upper hand?
Is it so out of character that one of the oldest living space marines would be honorable?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Ninja'd by Scarey Nerd.
BA P16 wrote:Dante and the Silent King go their separate ways, both forces now too battleworn to guarantee victory over the other, and, at least for the Blood Angels, the idea of turning on those they had so recently fought alongside, a rather distasteful one.
I think that it shows depth in their character. Not every marine is a raving lunatic. I also think that it shows us that the Necrons will have more depth as well.
Necrons as they are portrayed in the 3rd ed codex don't really seem to 'think' that much and just are mindless killing machines, literally.
This makes it more like they have personality. I like the idea that the Necrons will be more three dimensional.
Let me try to point out why, personal feelings aside (I detest the idea of individualized Necrons or Necron Lords), this wouldn't make sense from a current lore perspective. Of course, nothing is sacred when it comes to retcon, but from a current standpoint Necrons shouldn't have any identifiable traits to any of them.
Necrons were, as everyone knows, originally the Necrontyr race of semi-human like beings. Stuff happened and many many years later they found themselves transferred into the bodies that we all know and wish would get updated today, the Necrons. The first among the Necrontyr to become the Necrons were made into the Immortals, as can be found in the side entry for the same unit in the Necron codex. On page 25 near the bottom right, however, we make an interesting discovery concerning the intelligence of the first, and latter Necrons. It reads "Only a few of the very strongest retained their intellect and even then they were shadows of their former selves."
From the above passage we can gather that only a minimal percentage of the Necrons have any sort of intelligence left, and that those few were made into the Necron Lords. However, is a fit of self contradiction, it is hinted, in a location I cannot currently find, that the Flayed Ones originally had some semblance of intelligence and have since been driven insane, whilst the Wraiths among the Necron army were the murderers and thieves of the Necrontyr race.
Read these how you will, but I think it would be a large stretch to try and say that any current Necrons have any personality left, with the whole losing what remained every time they phased out.
I've also just re-read what you've said, and all I'm doing is affirming just that. This post is redundant but I'll leave it in case it's new info to anyone who doesn't know all that.
I am completely making this up, but what if... Instead of a ret-con, they actually progress Necrons.
Maybe one of the C'Tan is able to wake more of them up (by them I mean of their mind). Able to restore some of the Lords to more of their original faculties. Or any number of other outlandish things. Afterall, not long ago, the necrons were completely sleeping. Isn't such a leap to have them shake off their slumber, have a cup of robo-coffee and be a bit more alert.
pretre wrote:I am completely making this up, but what if... Instead of a ret-con, they actually progress Necrons.
Maybe one of the C'Tan is able to wake more of them up (by them I mean of their mind). Able to restore some of the Lords to more of their original faculties. Or any number of other outlandish things. Afterall, not long ago, the necrons were completely sleeping. Isn't such a leap to have them shake off their slumber, have a cup of robo-coffee and be a bit more alert.
Crazy talk, and unlikely, but still...
Honestly that would rock. What could never happen, but what I'd love to see, is the re-emergence of the Void Dragon. He leaves Mars and takes whatever current Guardian is watching him at the time and vacates to a distant world. Given his level of technological knowledge they could say he phased to a Tomb World in the outer belts of the galaxy and from there continues to wake up new Necron worlds. It'd be progression, but not so much that it completely rocks the story-line boat. And they could say he's made modifications to several Necrons there as justification for new units.
pretre wrote:I am completely making this up, but what if... Instead of a ret-con, they actually progress Necrons.
Maybe one of the C'Tan is able to wake more of them up (by them I mean of their mind). Able to restore some of the Lords to more of their original faculties. Or any number of other outlandish things. Afterall, not long ago, the necrons were completely sleeping. Isn't such a leap to have them shake off their slumber, have a cup of robo-coffee and be a bit more alert.
Crazy talk, and unlikely, but still...
Honestly that would rock. What could never happen, but what I'd love to see, is the re-emergence of the Void Dragon. He leaves Mars and takes whatever current Guardian is watching him at the time and vacates to a distant world. Given his level of technological knowledge they could say he phased to a Tomb World in the outer belts of the galaxy and from there continues to wake up new Necron worlds. It'd be progression, but not so much that it completely rocks the story-line boat. And they could say he's made modifications to several Necrons there as justification for new units.
That would be an awesome progression and an excellent way to start off a huge Necron based campaign, the only army that I have seen do a real progression was the Tau going from Codex: Tau to Codex: Tau Empire. I think they need to do this more often with Zeno forces, show some actual change in what is happening rather than the usual "Yeah were the same, we just decided to build a few extra tanks and change how we field some classic units"
Nagashek wrote:It actually surprises me how few people like the lack of individuality amoungst Necrons. Honestly that was a SELLING point for me! An unstoppable metal tide, whose very visage means death in any language? Yes, thank you. Their warriors do not utter battle cries to unspeakable gods. Only silence preceeds them, only silence their wake.
Only immortals and above having any semblance of personality, and that so alien, so far removed from any humanoid being, that they are utterly incomprehensable.
Their motivations are their own. Their language: their own. Yours is not to understand them. Yours is only to die to fuel their inhumane thirst.
Resistance is futile.
~~~~~
Why in the bloody blue blazes do you need ANYTHING besides THAT? My lords had personality, but my OPPONANT never got to see it. It was given to my enemies only to die. To weep and keen over the bodies of the slain.
Matt Ward. I spit on his grave. Ever since the Demons book for WHFB I have hated the man. He has yet to redeem himself.
Thats why I got into Necrons in 2004. LOVED that silent thing they had going. One minute the Marines are just looking around, next minute a silvery metal tide washes over them, they didn't even hear em coming.
Not every army need battle cries and personality. Keep the Necrons the way they are, just give us more to field and make guass threating again.
I feel like that could mess with infantry if it made the 6's AP 1, my solution was to just always count vehicles as open topped. Let's you do abit more damage then you could normally expect from a glancing hit, and can even destroy stuff, but won't do a whole lot of extra junk against infantry units. In short; keep the same rule just make it count glancing as minus 1 only.
Given that a unit of 20 necrons would get a max of 6-7 in rapid fire range, i don't think it's be too severe. As it is now gauss vs infantry only applies if the target is T 7 or more, which is practically nothing in the game.
Azure wrote:I feel like that could mess with infantry if it made the 6's AP 1, my solution was to just always count vehicles as open topped. Let's you do abit more damage then you could normally expect from a glancing hit, and can even destroy stuff, but won't do a whole lot of extra junk against infantry units. In short; keep the same rule just make it count glancing as minus 1 only.
I have to agree. Giving Guass a -1 glancing, would almost make em as dangerous as 4th ed. That -2 is what turns Guass into super soakers. Right now I have to rapid fire a 12 man warrior squad and fire 5 man Destroyer squad on 1 tank just to strip it of weapons to get the kill. Thats just plain not fair. What else do I use to kill armor? Monilith? This misses more times than not, or field Heavy destoryers? That also fails more times than not.
Would that be: "Gauss Weapons auto-glance on a 6 and count vehicles as open-topped"? Would they get anything against infantry or leave it at that, so that only Marine vehicles die, not the mahreens themselves?
Never mind the shooting, main issue was CC. Let's give flayed ones rending claws in CC and wraiths count as power weapons ... at the very least! Also, grenade equivalents are needed.
Tomb spyder was cool - but WS2/BS2?
Also, to fit in with certain HQ choices then certain elite/FA choices should be taken as troops? This fits with all other recent codexes and makes Necrons interesting. Imagine if by giving a lord a skimmer body you could take destroyers as troops!
That is the case in a fandex doign the rounds in the Proposed Rules forum.
A Lord can become a Wraith, Flayer, Destroyer or Immortal Lord. By doing this the associated units then become scoring. PLus the Wraith Lord gets all the Wraith saves (3++) and can still take a warscythe. SWEET!!!
Mantle wrote:
That would be an awesome progression and an excellent way to start off a huge Necron based campaign, the only army that I have seen do a real progression was the Tau going from Codex: Tau to Codex: Tau Empire. I think they need to do this more often with Zeno forces, show some actual change in what is happening rather than the usual "Yeah were the same, we just decided to build a few extra tanks and change how we field some classic units"
I love the idea of static or stagnant fluff for the IoM and progressive fluff for Xenos.
Gamer ADD took care of that for me, but my current crons are almost codex-complete I need a few odds and sods, plus whatever new shiny toys they put out
I'm going to say October. Stick Monkey had a post along the lines of "The dead will rise when souls come out to play". Strongly seems to say end of October around Halloween.
Honestly, after having a look over the GK codex in detail, I could care less if our fluff goes out the window as hot damn Matt Ward really makes up crazy good rules.
Kurgash wrote:Honestly, after having a look over the GK codex in detail, I could care less if our fluff goes out the window as hot damn Matt Ward really makes up crazy good rules.
I would wait a few months to see how the army preforms, before making that judgment. Things that look good on paper, do not always apply well in the game.
Still, I'd be kind of surprised if he really is writing it, that would be two codexs in a row now, which seems a bit usual.
Even so, when he writes something, there are options out the window. As Necrons go, that is just unknown to us aside playing other armies so that is already something to get excited over. I just want my little metal loves to get the proper treatment they deserve, they've endured 5th Ed long enough with 2 hands behind their back it's time to sucker punch some people.
To be honest i dont want TOO many options for necrons. it would ruin the uniform look of the army which is on eof the main points of it.
or if there are options, i would prefer they be for the entire squad to maintain uniformity (ex: entire quad may replace Gauss flayer with ..... for X points).
The only exception to this i can think of is that i woudl prefer H.Destroyers to be an upgrade to a Destroyer squad.
I think that it's almost guaranteed that the Tomb Stalker will be Joining us in our New Codex. Not to mention those rules for it are pretty awesome, and would really give some punch to the Necron Army.
I wonder if we are going to end up seeing a lot more MC, in the New Codex? I think we can Guarantee Tomb Spyders/Stalkers, But I wounder if there are going to be any others.
No, can't find anythgin no either. I think i read somethgin about a giant necron titan-esque thing........I think it was actualyl called a Tomb Stalker.
Anyone aware of anything like that in Necron fluff? All the mentions i have seen seem to relate to a big spider like thing.
If this is so then maybe the FW Tomb Stalker is the fist wave of fluff retcon?
***EDIT
Foudn something. THIS sketch with a little bit of text underneath:
"For all we know, there are no Necron Titans in the Warhammer 40K world. A little bit ago, a really observant person noticed in a book there was a mention of a great Necron Titan, the Tomb Stalker. There is only ONE concept drawing on the internet, so I had to go off that. So, my fellow Necrons, I want to tell you how to make such a wonderful model, complete with stats."
heres a link to the page if anybody wants to read the instructions to make one, bear in mind the rules listed at this link are ridiculous!!
From the Blood Angels Codex, page 16, under the heading "955.M41 The Gehenna Campaign"
He's so cool.
ck.
