So pleased to hear VAT won't be an issue. Between that and the recent increases in international shipping costs it's made getting stuff from outside the EU a right bloody pain.
RiTides wrote: Yeah even we're confused by it . Sorry guys... maybe you can catch a nap jonolikespie, since I know it's late there... just don't fall deep asleep and miss the button mashing!
Try living in one of the few North American jurisdictions that doesn't use daylight savings time.
Why was the plague creature dropped? Was it due to time restrictions, or because a certain company decided to assert its invention of plagues, diseases and grenade launchers again?
Looking forward to getting a pincer daemon to represent zarakynel daemon lord of slaanesh. Much nicer looking and hopefully cheaper than the forgeworld model.
But of course. And from what I'm reading it sounds like the early birds might not even be the best course of action with getting a bundle that has all the models? Or is there bundle early birds O.O ?
Apparently that page is slow to load after all, I just searched "creature" to find the link above! Link's in this thread now though so give your F5 a break
Theophony wrote: In for silver earlybird , pincer daemon will be mine.
Yeah, I actually pledged for a silver early bird too, likely for the Warrior Demon. Will have to look at my finances closer to the end but that's actually less than I expected it to be (granted, I know I'll have to add on for shipping later) so I'll likely stay in for it
Muahahaha, Vulture Demon will be mine. Also; jeebus-motorboating-christ, the prices - £45 + shipping for the "silver" models, that's less than a third the cost of similar models from "well known competitors" with at least equivalent quality(and in the case of the Vulture Demon, IMO, also with superior aesthetics).
Now I just have to hope you don't come out with more stuff I can't do without, hah.
Hell yeah, got the bronze level early bird special and the awesome Spider Deamon! I was actually really surprised by the price too. 65 CAD is nothing for such an awesome model.
Also were we supposed to be given a survey to ask us which model we would like after we pledged or will that be sent to us later?
Oh man, the more I look at that page, the worse it gets. Free Bronze level model with $700.00 pledge. Tempting me with all sorts of nonsense... Must... resist.
Yodhrin- I agree, I was kind of shocked at the price! Very reasonable, although again, shipping not included (but it never is on a website order, either). I was actually just going to pledge $1 to watch it, but I'm glad I checked at launch because at this price I am so in
Ctan_Overlord wrote: Hell yeah, got the bronze level early bird special and the awesome Spider Deamon! I was actually really surprised by the price too. 65 CAD is nothing for such an awesome model.
Also were we supposed to be given a survey to ask us which model we would like after we pledged or will that be sent to us later?
That's usually sent after the kickstarter time ends.
Also note that if you want more than one model but not the bundle, the add-on prices are halfway in-between the early bird price and the normal price, which is nice.
RiTides wrote: Yodhrin- I agree, I was kind of shocked at the price! Very reasonable, although again, shipping not included (but it never is on a website order, either). I was actually just going to pledge $1 to watch it, but I'm glad I checked at launch because at this price I am so in
And already funded in ~16 minutes, well done!!
Aye congrats Jeremy
After what we've been told I'm actually pretty unconcerned about the shipping price. Assuming as the page indicates they'll ship from inside the UK, it shouldn't be more than £5-10 extra depending on weight and service used, the final cost will still be fantastic value.
MadCowCrazy wrote: Whatever happened to the plague demon? Is that one of the unlockable models?
Pledged Bronze for the Spider Demon, was hoping to get the plague demon as well but it's not listed :(
I also can't find Postage costs anywhere :(
The Plague Demon needed reworking, it may well show up as a stretch goal I think. Postage costs will be calculated after we use the pledge manager, but from your flag, you can get a rough idea by figuring out how much a model like this would cost to ship from the UK, as that's where EU folk will be getting theirs from.
MadCowCrazy wrote: Whatever happened to the plague demon? Is that one of the unlockable models?
Pledged Bronze for the Spider Demon, was hoping to get the plague demon as well but it's not listed :(
I also can't find Postage costs anywhere :(
The Plague Demon needed reworking, it may well show up as a stretch goal I think. Postage costs will be calculated after we use the pledge manager, but from your flag, you can get a rough idea by figuring out how much a model like this would cost to ship from the UK, as that's where EU folk will be getting theirs from.
If you pause the video at 2:22 you can see 3 stretchgoal models. 2 or 3 headed dragon, tree woman and undead dragon (sure looks pretty bony to me).
Was hoping to get early bird specials on everything but I hope they have some good deals on the additional models added like they do now (extra spider demon was 70 compared to 65 early bird or 75 normal).
Do we know at what pledge levels extra models will be unlocked?
Thanks for the ambassador'ing Yodhrin. You are correct.
All of the models coming up that will be unlocked are secret, but you will not have to wait long. First wave of unlocks is parts, then the first model will be unveiled. 22 day campaign will go by fast, so the updates will be fairly furious.
Any specific pledge amount you're looking to hit before you release those? Or are you going to stagger them out so that they don't all come at once because we like throwing money at you (which I'm sure we'd be more than happy to oblige if you want to do it that way)?
I am going to be here and on the Facebook and on the campaign page all morning (morning for me) so ask me anything you need.
Thank you for making this an amazing launch!
Practiced button mashing
Thanks for checking in here, it is much appreciated!
MadCow, you're right about the profiles shown in the video. But the Plague Demon (not one I'm interested in, but it has been mentioned by others a number of times) was definitely mentioned as a possibility by CreatureCaster earlier in this thread. If enough folks ask about it maybe it will get moved up in the queue
Here's a video which someone just posted in the comments showing it and some of the others (from earlier and WIP still, of course):
Well, I WAS planning on trickling out the stretch goals. Well, really there are a lot of UNLOCKS first, then stretch goal model. I am going to publish my first wave of unlocks much sooner than I had anticipated, probably tomorrow evening.
Well, I WAS planning on trickling out the stretch goals. Well, really there are a lot of UNLOCKS first, then stretch goal model. I am going to publish my first wave of unlocks much sooner than I had anticipated, probably tomorrow evening.
Will there be an update laying out where some of those unlocks might occur? Obviously it's only 1 hour into the campaign but a few folks did ask in the comments about that (so just passing it along).
One thing I would love for alternate parts with the warrior demon is something to swap for the horns. This pic without horns is probably my favorite of it anywhere:
He just looks awesome! If I can fit this model into my army it'd be as a K'daii Destroyer, so with smaller / alternate / no horns, it avoids having too much of a generic demon look and just looks like a freaking bad@$$ monster!
I may also do something about the wings, but obviously that'd be my own conversion and not an unlocked part for the Kickstarter... but something to swap in for the horns would be small and easy, and totally awesome! It'd make the model much more versatile, too . And heck, a small part to cover up the wing joints to make a giant on-foot demon could be useful, too.
Note: I only suggest the above because I know you're planning to include extra / exclusive parts. Rather than a different weapon, I think those parts would be really cool and useful. So just my suggestion
Well, I WAS planning on trickling out the stretch goals. Well, really there are a lot of UNLOCKS first, then stretch goal model. I am going to publish my first wave of unlocks much sooner than I had anticipated, probably tomorrow evening.
RiTides wrote: Also guys it's down to less than 5 bronze (spider demon) and 15 gold (dragon) early birds, so if you want one snag it!
I'm in at the bronze level. I wish I knew what level the tree people and plague demon were going to be at. I'd jump in at Gold if I knew that's what level they'd be at.
Snagged one of the last bronzes. All gone now. Wanted the spider demon and at $59 US a lot of manufacturers can't beat that. Look forward to this campaign
@Thatguy- Good question, but I doubt either the plague demon or tree creature would be bronze (probably gold or silver, and since gold is the only one with early birds left, I might put in a placeholder there and just drop down to normal silver later if needed).
@CreatureCaster- The natives are getting a Little restless in the comments lol (they're making us look like a nice and patient bunch!). So putting in a comment over there or an update sometime shortly might be a good idea
I noticed that you don't have any comments on Kickstarter to date, but in other campaigns I've seen that a one-liner "Working on an update now!" posted in the comments by the creator can miraculously calm the storm for a bit (see what I did there?)
Missed the launch and the silver EB I wanted, but picked up a bronze EB instead. Now I'll be getting the spider demon and the pincer demon rather than just the pincer demon. Depending on what the unlocked figures are this could get pretty expensive pretty quickly..
I also used the live in North Van, around the corner from the college and in the building behind the game store that the videos are filmed at. The store opened up after I moved unfortunately, I wish it had been there when I lived there.
willb2064 wrote: Missed the launch and the silver EB I wanted, but picked up a bronze EB instead.
On the last couple of days, there's a mini-game available on Kickstarter. It goes like this:
1. Set your bid high enough to cover all your options then monitor the site for people dropping their early bird pledges (it happens).
2. Jump in on that pledge level.
3. ??
4. Profit.
Update is posted! From the Kickstarter comments section, he mentioned the first unlocks will be coming as a wave in an attempt to catch up (these will be alternate parts for the current sculpts, included free, and later stretches will be for additional models) which will all be revealed tomorrow.
Also that link above is to a live stream where he is answering questions, which is pretty cool
---
Notes from the live stream:
-Original plague demon was too large and so was getting reworked, a smaller one will be revealed in 10 or 11 days, and then original is being worked on and may make it back into the campaign. He also asked folks to post in the comments if that's what you're looking for regarding the plague demon.
-Video diary on the main page of the Kickstarter campaign will likely be updated on a daily basis
-Spider demon will have alternate sword and alternate head (for the currently greyed out kickstarter exclusive parts on the main page)
First wave of bits will be unlocked within 48 hours after CreatureCaster crashes from the launch craziness
I am going to be unlocking exclusive parts until we get 6 of them out, and then perhaps start up with the 2nd round of unlocks. Add a lot of value to the models you already got right at the start.
After about a week we will be into stretch goal models, with their own upgrades as well.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I am going to be afk for a short while. Post any questions here, and if they arent ambassador ninja'd then I will get to them when I get back
While I like the alt spider head a lot I keep seeing an elongated smiley ehad on account of the 2 front eyes.
I think 6 eyes are sexier and more menacing like the quick photoshop to the right:
If the consensus agrees, that is a pretty easy sculpt to apply. I like it as well. We will get into some hardcore design stuff both during and after the campaign, and this would be a perfect thing to discuss in our first backers-only google hangout.
I don't play Daemons, but that Pincer Demon is calling me. OTOH hand I missed the Early Bird by minutes so I am a bit annoyed and not in the mood to share my rupees. I killed a lot of octoroks for those things, and they are precious to me.
I am sworn off buying new miniatures until I've painted what I already have, but this is so very tempting. I have a mighty want for a few of those demons.
lennymaybe wrote: I am sworn off buying new miniatures until I've painted what I already have, but this is so very tempting. I have a mighty want for a few of those demons.
I went in for the spider daemon, but I really want the Pincer demon too. A male Keeper of Secrets running around would be a lot of fun. Plus his sword looks awesome.
And then there's the dragons. My chaos army doesn't yet have a dragon for my chaos lord - though this isn't two-headed, so it's still not quiiiiite right...
H.B.M.C. wrote: Don't get carried away with the KickTraq stuff. The projections assume the same pledge level every day.
Quite, also, with the cancelled first attempt, the continuous comms and well publicised launch date, while an outstanding success by any yardstick already, the odds are this project is going to have a very weird shape.
So it looks like I missed the EBs by selfishly sleeping overnight. No pressure to pledge now then, though I'm looking most likely to go for the Creature Bundle, I'd like to see a bit more info on shipping first - like some actual ballpark numbers.
basement.dweller wrote: While I like the alt spider head a lot I keep seeing an elongated smiley ehad on account of the 2 front eyes.
I think 6 eyes are sexier and more menacing like the quick photoshop to the right:
I know I'm a few pages late, but I prefer the layout of the 6-eyes. Perhaps keeping 8 eyes but having the last two grouped with the clusters of three, to avoid the long smileyface that I now can't unsee...
Also:
spend 700+ total, get 1 free bronze model
spend 850+ total, get another free model (silver)
spend 1000+ total, get yet another free model (gold)
I admit though - this makes me concerned. Both in terms of how many models I'll want to get from this campaign, and also in hoping that the campaign doesn't over-extend itself with too many models to produce and then blow up the fulfilment date. I'd rather see the campaign with only 6 models and ship on time than add another 6 or 10 or 12 and ship in Jan, or Feb, or June.... and we so well know the way it goes by now... even "well prepared" campaigns get overwhelmed. Wasn't the Mierce Wave 0 supposed to ship in Dec/Jan? And now it's shipped in April instead?
Well you wanted an idea for how to make the ancient dragon look venerable. How about instead of a big rock for the base like the other models, have the ancient dragon mounted on a dead rival? Or a stash of valuables, gold, jewels, swords, shields but no skulls as those are trademarked. Unless it's another dragons skull crushed and beaten in battle, a grand souvenir of a former rival or top dog( er.....dragon)
I admit though - this makes me concerned. Both in terms of how many models I'll want to get from this campaign, and also in hoping that the campaign doesn't over-extend itself with too many models to produce and then blow up the fulfilment date. I'd rather see the campaign with only 6 models and ship on time than add another 6 or 10 or 12 and ship in Jan, or Feb, or June.... and we so well know the way it goes by now... even "well prepared" campaigns get overwhelmed. Wasn't the Mierce Wave 0 supposed to ship in Dec/Jan? And now it's shipped in April instead?
Did you just pull off that rarest of rare Azazelx moves - the pre-emptive pledge pull?!?
And then there's the dragons. My chaos army doesn't yet have a dragon for my chaos lord - though this isn't two-headed, so it's still not quiiiiite right...
There is a multi headed dragon silhouette in the video
Azazel- That last quote is referring to how much an individual backer spends, not the number of sculpts in the campaign. There are only 6 right now, and I'd be shocked if there were more than a dozen by the end. There have only been hints of a tree creature, a few more dragons, and a few plague demons... despite how much I want to see a golem, they seem to be sticking to what they've already finished (or close to it) which is very good for fulfillment timelines.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also Creature Caster, you may want to edit the campaign link into the OP of this thread, particularly for folks who log back on Monday to check things and won't have seen the previous few pages where it was posted:
This is humming right along, I'm quite sure I'll wake up to the first unlocked extra part for the sixth model in the morning... maybe even before I go to bed, depending on how late I'm up
Azazel- That last quote is referring to how much an individual backer spends, not the number of sculpts in the campaign. There are only 6 right now, and I'd be shocked if there were more than a dozen by the end. There have only been hints of a tree creature, a few more dragons, and a few plague demons... despite how much I want to see a golem, they seem to be sticking to what they've already finished (or close to it) which is very good for fulfillment timelines.
You're misunderstanding my point. The "all-in" pledge right now is just under CA$500. If Jeremy is planning for pledges of $700-1k from individuals, then I'm concerned that there are a LOT more models planned for stretch goals - and as such - a real danger of the campaign blowing out by another 3-6 months. Something that makes this campaign more attractive to me right now is the limited scope and fast turnaround. While you might call me a fethwit for expecting the fulfilment on a KS to be something near what it says on the tin, the more limited a campaign is, the more chance it has of actually meeting those goals...
Did you just pull off that rarest of rare Azazelx moves - the pre-emptive pledge pull?!?
Hah, you're behind. I did that already with that recent Weird-WW2 game that all but admitted on day 2 or whatever that their fulfilment date was optimistic at best. They're getting Panda who is part of the recently-delayed-by-8-12-months Incursion campaign to do their models, so expect at least an extra year for that one.
This campaign, I'm very interested in going all-out in. With the EBs gone, I'm just going to play it cautiously - or as other posters in other threads would call it - "selfishly" by waiting to see how the shipping pans out and what happens with stretch goals and additional models before "going in as early and as big as possible" pledging $500+ in a KS-hyped frenzy of excitement.
Well, as I stated above, I'd be shocked if more than 12 models were offered, based on everything CreatureCaster has previewed and hinted at (with everything else being shunted to "perhaps in a later campaign"). That could easily put a pledge into that price range, though, for folks who want one of everything (whether to paint, collect, re-sell some, etc). From what I've seen they're being pretty conservative in what they're offering- it's about to break 90K, and no new models have been added to produce- only additional free parts for the existing models, which is a really smart idea for stretch goals, imo.
Totally justified fears when it comes to campaigns that overstretch.
Under promise and over deliver is my mantra in this campaign. The models that will be offer as stretch goals are already in development, and will have 100 percent focus upon the campaign's end.
Plus, there simply will not be THAT many models added as additional models that we must complete in the same time it takes to ship everything. There will probably only be three, maybe four models added, and that is all.
First week is lots of unlocked exclusive parts to add value to the models you already got.
Second week is adding the stretch goal models PLUS their own parts.
Third week is new bundles which include the new models, and maybe even some bundles with some extra special gifts included.
Ambassadors, you are amazing, and thank you. So glad to be here on Dakka with you all as this thing goes down. The initial burst has not phased me from my original goal of making a campaign that surpasses expectations by being realistic, honest and passionate.
Jeremy, thank you for all you cool designs and the great communications you've had with the kickstarter. I hav bought your models when you owned ultraforge and was sad to hear it when you sold he company . But looks like all is good now with the kickstarter.
Only one thing concerns me.......GET SOME SLEEP we want you to live through this and there's more excitement to be had tomorrow. Just think how much fun it will be to wake up and see the numbers then instead o just sitting and hitting F5. Get some rest, refresh, and one up with more great ideas for KS2.
Good to hear, Jeremy. I probably won't back until the final days, since the campaign is using Canadian dollars and Kickstarter's lack of competent security has already caused me to need to have one card reissued. I'd definitely be interested in seeing how the updated all-in bundles look - though I'm not so keen on the concept of a tree(wo)man - so perhaps allowing some trade-ins worked out by model category could work?
(Anyone got a pic of the early treewoman concept they can link? I missed it first time around).
I was on board for this (Creature Bundle) but when we were approaching $100k and still no stretch goals announced and only some 'rewards' of spare alternate parts I reckoned this is more a pre-order sale than a kickstarter (unfortunately following many others in the figure gaming genre). I should say that in principle there is nothing wrong with this IMO, but nothing worth following as everything is already planned out.
The delay in stretch goals does amaze me, especially as only another 3 or 4 more additional figures will be released as stretch goals no matter what the funding levels achieved are. My guess is that next week when Jeremy announces the 'stretch goals' they will be add-ons and spaced at about every $250k. Makes me wonder though what were the plans if instead of being at $100k within the first day they were only at $50k after the first week, would then the stretch goals have been at every $50k or $100k? Of course we will never know. But it just left me bewildered as to why I should back the kickstarter, although of course many hundreds have, so therefore I am the unusual one here! (Seem to have heard that many times before! )
Good luck to Jeremy, absolutely nothing wrong with the demons at all, in fact I love the look of 5 out of the 6 (which is a pretty good strike rate) and will undoubtedly buy those ones post-kickstarter at retail some time in the future.
Only real question is will this kickstarter approach, reach, or breach the $1million barrier?
I figured it out though - It's not the eyes, It's the mouth! It makes it look like a starfish demon and way too cute In order not to spoil it for anyone else - I've hidden the image with a rough rendition of mandibles in place.
I am sure Jeremy could make some jawsome mandibles.
Spoiler:
@Jeremy - I am thoroughly enjoying all the updates and videos - I think you are doing a great job with KS. It feels very personal and up close.
I was on board for this (Creature Bundle) but when we were approaching $100k and still no stretch goals announced and only some 'rewards' of spare alternate parts I reckoned this is more a pre-order sale than a kickstarter (unfortunately following many others in the figure gaming genre). I should say that in principle there is nothing wrong with this IMO, but nothing worth following as everything is already planned out.
The delay in stretch goals does amaze me, especially as only another 3 or 4 more additional figures will be released as stretch goals no matter what the funding levels achieved are. My guess is that next week when Jeremy announces the 'stretch goals' they will be add-ons and spaced at about every $250k. Makes me wonder though what were the plans if instead of being at $100k within the first day they were only at $50k after the first week, would then the stretch goals have been at every $50k or $100k? Of course we will never know. But it just left me bewildered as to why I should back the kickstarter, although of course many hundreds have, so therefore I am the unusual one here! (Seem to have heard that many times before! )
Good luck to Jeremy, absolutely nothing wrong with the demons at all, in fact I love the look of 5 out of the 6 (which is a pretty good strike rate) and will undoubtedly buy those ones post-kickstarter at retail some time in the future.
Only real question is will this kickstarter approach, reach, or breach the $1million barrier?
I am glad this was brought up.
Look, between us here and the rest of the world..... all of my parts and models are going to be released during this campaign.... and I am going to run out. I could assign a target number and a silhouette on a pledge map that has been painted like a dungeons or a castle.... but that does not change the fact that all the parts are going in. I could get greedy and overstretch, but everyone knows I am not doing this. Putting an arbitrary number or silhouette on a map does not change anything. It is pure sales, it is a dangling carrot, and it is not in my character to use these strategies.
... and I am the one of the first to do this, so I totally understand if one were to be confuse by this.
In Kingdom Death, Adam silhouetted the next unlock, and this was pretty cool and in my opinion is an intelligent and honest way to approach it. I went a step further,a nd went purley for the suprise. EXACT same thing, only no silhouette.
If I were to have numbers and silhouettes going FAR into the millions.... that would be me overstretching. The items on this campaign are finite, and are based on their level of done'ness, not greed.
Not drawing the silhouette and number for the next goal was a concious choice on my part, because it is my way of saying that this is no more or less a pre-order because of a single silhouette. Adam Poots was the first to implement this style of honesty, and I am basically the next step.
CBRFigs wrote: But it just left me bewildered as to why I should back the kickstarter, although of course many hundreds have, so therefore I am the unusual one here!
Why should you back it? Because it offers a product you want, at the price you want, nothing more. Stretch goals, unlocks, bonuses, etc., are completely irrelevant as there is never a guarantee they will all be met. If you do not want the product, as is, then do not back the project. That is what Kickstarter is all about.
CBRFigs wrote: I was on board for this (Creature Bundle) but when we were approaching $100k and still no stretch goals announced and only some 'rewards' of spare alternate parts I reckoned this is more a pre-order sale than a kickstarter (unfortunately following many others in the figure gaming genre). I should say that in principle there is nothing wrong with this IMO, but nothing worth following as everything is already planned out.
The delay in stretch goals does amaze me, especially as only another 3 or 4 more additional figures will be released as stretch goals no matter what the funding levels achieved are. My guess is that next week when Jeremy announces the 'stretch goals' they will be add-ons and spaced at about every $250k. Makes me wonder though what were the plans if instead of being at $100k within the first day they were only at $50k after the first week, would then the stretch goals have been at every $50k or $100k? Of course we will never know. But it just left me bewildered as to why I should back the kickstarter, although of course many hundreds have, so therefore I am the unusual one here! (Seem to have heard that many times before! )
Good luck to Jeremy, absolutely nothing wrong with the demons at all, in fact I love the look of 5 out of the 6 (which is a pretty good strike rate) and will undoubtedly buy those ones post-kickstarter at retail some time in the future.
Only real question is will this kickstarter approach, reach, or breach the $1million barrier?
It's not a "stretch goal freebie" type campaign. That's ok. It appears that it's to get the models into production and the business off the ground, while giving a discount. I'm hoping that we don't have to play the "stretch goal" game and drop the pretense once enough money to cover the production of the additional figures, etc is reached. With 3x the funding for the initial 6 models sorted, I'd hope it's soon.
Just missed out on the Early Bird bronze yesterday (had to fill in my card details which cost me time) but am stoked to finally be able to pledge money for an awesome sculpt (I must have a Spider Demon!).
I do have one question though, is it possible to see larger images of the unlockables? In particular I'm curious about the Tongue Sword unlocked for the Spider Demon, I'd love to see the details but the unlock image is too small.
Thank you for making such wonderful sculpts available ^^
As I stated Jeremy is doing nothing wrong here, indeed in many ways it could be argued that he is being more 'up front' with this kickstarter than many creators are (here I was going to use the word 'honest' but thought better on reflection because it would imply others were 'dis-honest' and the term could be misunderstood and taken out of context).
I have just edited this post as I think it is not an appropriate place for the discussion that was talked about. My apologies to those who read the post before I edited it.
CBRFigs, your posts look fine to me. But while many campaigns "unlock" later waves of minis when they go beyond expectations, this one is just going to launch a later campaign for those.
Personally, I like this strategy and hope it catches on a bit, resulting in more "on time" campaigns that stay within their original scope... and thus, within their delivery schedule!
I think this is a fascinating topic by the way. It really represents where the world is at in terms of their understanding of crowd sourcing.
3) With no forward announcement of production cost targets or for associated stretch goals (in this case the new figures) the promised stretch goal announcements become nothing than a retail advertising campaign
I have to respectfully disagree, my campaign is very very essence of a crowd sourcing campaign. The reason why I do not announce how much money I need is because: I have enough money. I already hit my target. All remaining stretch goal models and part upgrades WILL be released to the campaign, and time is now the deciding factor, not money. At this point, putting a map graphic, a silhouette, and an arbitrary number associated with things I feel is insulting to the collective intelligence of my backers.
The reason why my campaign looks like a pre order is due to my over-cautious stance. My models are overly-developed. My company is overly-thought out, because I am over-careful that everything is going to fulfil quickly and in a satisfying way. I understand that this campaign then takes on the look of a pre-order, but it only looks that way because I dont sleep. I is pure crowd sourcing and community building.
All profit past this point actually cuts into my MSRP sales for down the road. I have a personal interest in deliberately modest campaigns. I dunno, this really makes me a freak compared to the Reapers of the world
Having said that, this dialogue is extremely fascinating to me CBRFigs and I really do respect your need for authenticity and intention in a campaign. I do as well, I think I just went about it in a slightly counter-intuitive manner with the high levels of development I had before launching.
With all that said, if you did decide to release a golem in this one, I wouldn't say no . But if the cautious approach means I really will receive my demon in 2014 as predicted, I will be very happy!
For something like hand cast resin, fulfilling in volume can actually be harder, and not really cheaper, than fulfilling a small amount (unlike plastic). Will you be having to add extra casting capacity / help given the numbers you're seeing here? Is there a point where the volume would make the delivery date slip despite not adding too many new designs? I wish Kickstarter would let creators make a reward level limited after launching for just this reason. It looks silly to limit November delivery of a reward to 500 backers if only 100 join the campaign. But once you've blown up, that sometimes helps with fulfillment by staggering for a few months.
With how planned this was I'm betting you have a means to get it all cast in time, but just thinking about this out loud (and a bit in general) here . If this started a trend of campaigns sticking to what they can truly deliver on time, that would be a welcome check to the trend of "minimum 6 months to a year delay" Kickstarters we see so often now!
This is my exact point. The 10k to fund a head is a purely arbitrary number. It is in every Kickstarter. If you got your goal, you should be able to make everything you offer.
In every campaign the goals should be reactive. No one can tell the future. I would not change a thing with my campaign, and I am taken aback every time I see a campaign promise stretch goals at the 100K level when they are struggling to get 2K.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I would love o do a Google hangout purely dedicated to crowd sourcing philosophy. Would be a great hangout after the project is done.
I was still editing above but I think I got it all in in time . I posted a few questions too, but you might not have the answers to them just yet.
Back to Easter stuff!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, I think the traditional "stretch goal" path makes a lot more sense in campaigns that get quantity discounts, like something being made in hard plastic, or a board game printing run, etc. But this has me thinking as I think for more "boutique" items, this could be a better (and more honest / realistic) route, particularly to stay on-time.
Also also, a single bronze AND silver early bird are currently open!!
Jeremy, you just HAD TO mention a company (naughty - but understandable - and agreed).
I think this discussion could go on indefinitely, and it is not something that should be prolonged from your point of view as your time is extremely valuable at this moment in time concentrating on the kickstarter. (Hence one of the reasons I edited out my last post.)
I do not want people to get the wrong idea here and think I am decrying the Creature Casting kickstarter - I will definitely be buying 5 of the 6 models at retail post November. It is a personal decision as to what 'kickstarters' I back. (I have backed one whereby from the start the creator, a small one man company, said there would be basically no freebies from the start.)
This discussion possibly could (and possibly 'should') be in a thread of its own, unfortunately any such thread at the moment is likely to detract from existing kickstarters.
In closing I will say that I think the prices for the models are indeed very reasonable AND Jeremy has gone about this in some ways that I wish other kickstarter creators would, and this especially applies to having regional distribution centres around the world - a massive '10 out of 10' for that.
Let's leave it there folks. If you are into the genres of Demons and Dragons then this is a good kickstarter with brilliant sculpts, it is just not one I will back but will jump on the figures later at retail for sure.
Jeremy - I would love to take part in a discussion afterward the campaign as well.
RiTides (or Tides as I call you on all the video stuff) you should definitely be there in the next Google hangout to demand your golem. We could develop some conversation and silhouette surrounding it. Will happen in few days I am thinking.
CBR, if you do decide to make such a thread, Dakka Discussions would be perfect for it! I know many Dakkanauts would love to discuss it, so post a link here if you do and people can direct it over there. But I agree there's no need to pursue it too far here, as Jeremy has posted pretty clearly what kind of campaign he's going to run, and is being really honest about his plans.
RiTides wrote: CBRFigs, your posts look fine to me. But while many campaigns "unlock" later waves of minis when they go beyond expectations, this one is just going to launch a later campaign for those.
Personally, I like this strategy and hope it catches on a bit, resulting in more "on time" campaigns that stay within their original scope... and thus, within their delivery schedule!
Very much this. The "pledge for stretches" model can be run well and fulfill promptly, Mierce seems to be doing a sterling job in that regard, but it can also go seriously wrong. Anyone with questions in their mind about Jeremy's approach should have a look into what's happened to Raging Heroes(I'm aware some campaigns have gone far far worse, but from what I've read most of them seem to be due to either deliberate dishonesty, or the type of incompetence which would show up regardless of what funding model was used); they over-promised, over-reached, reacted to genuine feedback with disdain, and as a result we're now sitting a month after the date they originally claimed would signal completion of fulfillment, but haven't even seen a pledge manager. They managed to turn a wave of massive enthusiasm into a backer pool that's mostly a mixture of dislike, ambivalence, and jokes at their expense, because they didn't handle the "pledge for stretches" model well and weren't willing to engage fully with the community that was starting to form around their product.
I'd far rather more KS followed Jeremy's example of modest, reachable, achievable goals combined with genuine engagement, than go the other way and end up being a gamble whether it turns out well, or devolves into a bitter morass of disappointed backers and frustrated creators.
RiTides (or Tides as I call you on all the video stuff) you should definitely be there in the next Google hangout to demand your golem. We could develop some conversation and silhouette surrounding it. Will happen in few days I am thinking.
As far as kickstarters go I detest the model of starting with half the box contents and adding them back in as "free" stretch goals as has been common with some companies. I've always thought that an upfront model with "this is what we want to do and this is how much we need to achieve that" is preferable. So you basically know what you are getting and can decide if it's something you want to back from the getgo. Anything added in or unlocked if you will should be just that - addons that are not really necessary for the product to function as intended.
As such I love how this KS is set up. No confusion.
I backed for early bird silver, but I really want the plague demon. I hope I don't have to go to gold when I could have gotten early bird gold just to get him.
Don't you have enough Golems by now? Don't get me wrong - I like Golems as much as the next guy, but I have this creeping suspiscion that you might be amassing an army to unleash on the world. Do you have a lifesize one yet?
I do have golems, but actually not too many types. It's an underserved area of the market! But usable for so many things
Igloo- there May be a large and small plague demon, so they might be available at different tiers depending on if both are ready in time for this campaign.
Troll or golem works but I think the second gives more opportunity for awesomeness at this size of model (like a K'daii Destroyer, which has no model currently).
This is all for the future / next campaign of course, but doesn't hurt to mention as they seem to be taking note of backer requests
This never got posted in here, but we're into the second set of unlocked exclusive parts for the models now, with an alternate sword for the spider demon (third row, first pic in the below graphic):
Better views of it can be seen at 2:07 into this video:
Also, in the video diary on the main Kickstarter page, Jeremy mentioned doing google hangouts on Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday, and Sunday this week instead of his making videos, which saves time on editing and lets him answer backer questions live, while still putting most of his time into working on the 3d modelling for the remaining unlocks.
Ugh. Figures that I would lose my debit card the weekend that this kickstarter comes out. Hopefully they can get a new one to me before the campaign is over.
Darth Bob wrote: Ugh. Figures that I would lose my debit card the weekend that this kickstarter comes out. Hopefully they can get a new one to me before the campaign is over.
Most banks can make a card for you at any branch and activate it right there. My wife has lost hers twice(stolen once), and I lost mine once, we had cards by the next morning all three time(just because it was after bank hours).
I vote for a beard golem. Just look at cousin It from Addams family for inspiration. It can be the culmination of all those daemonic Beardy players out there joined together to ruin a game.
Darth Bob wrote: Ugh. Figures that I would lose my debit card the weekend that this kickstarter comes out. Hopefully they can get a new one to me before the campaign is over.
Most banks can make a card for you at any branch and activate it right there. My wife has lost hers twice(stolen once), and I lost mine once, we had cards by the next morning all three time(just because it was after bank hours).
Thanks for the advice. I'll give my local branch a call tomorrow when they open.
Darth Bob wrote: Ugh. Figures that I would lose my debit card the weekend that this kickstarter comes out. Hopefully they can get a new one to me before the campaign is over.
Most banks can make a card for you at any branch and activate it right there. My wife has lost hers twice(stolen once), and I lost mine once, we had cards by the next morning all three time(just because it was after bank hours).
Thanks for the advice. I'll give my local branch a call tomorrow when they open.
Your welcome and Alpharius thanks you for the loan of the card , no legion member should think they "lost" one.
CreatureCaster wrote: This is my exact point. The 10k to fund a head is a purely arbitrary number. It is in every Kickstarter. If you got your goal, you should be able to make everything you offer.
In every campaign the goals should be reactive. No one can tell the future. I would not change a thing with my campaign, and I am taken aback every time I see a campaign promise stretch goals at the 100K level when they are struggling to get 2K.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I would love o do a Google hangout purely dedicated to crowd sourcing philosophy. Would be a great hangout after the project is done.
Jeremy - I'd love it if you could see your way to scheduling some of the Google Hangout chats on the weekend, instead of, say, Tuesdays. Since I'm international and need to work, weekday ones have me right out of the ability to participate and feed back in real time. (and others around the world will be in the same situation). At least on the weekend I have a bit more control over when I need to sleep!
Very much this. The "pledge for stretches" model can be run well and fulfill promptly, Mierce seems to be doing a sterling job in that regard, but it can also go seriously wrong. Anyone with questions in their mind about Jeremy's approach should have a look into what's happened to Raging Heroes(I'm aware some campaigns have gone far far worse, but from what I've read most of them seem to be due to either deliberate dishonesty, or the type of incompetence which would show up regardless of what funding model was used); they over-promised, over-reached, reacted to genuine feedback with disdain, and as a result we're now sitting a month after the date they originally claimed would signal completion of fulfillment, but haven't even seen a pledge manager. They managed to turn a wave of massive enthusiasm into a backer pool that's mostly a mixture of dislike, ambivalence, and jokes at their expense, because they didn't handle the "pledge for stretches" model well and weren't willing to engage fully with the community that was starting to form around their product.
I've been quietly following the Mierce campaign thread, and it seems to me that it's a bit dishonest. It's not exactly what was said on the tin initially - a "2.5" campaign for "adding a few units" and seems instead to have gone into full-blown "push for cash" mode with a huge number of new sculpts. Since they were apparently 4-5 months late sending out their Wave 0 stuff, I can only imagine that the rest of their stuff will also be delayed, and so on and on in a chain reaction effecting their subsequent waves. While they seem to be doing well on the communication aspect, and the models appear to be of great quality, they slid on fulfilment of their first campaign and are now doing the same with their second - while having already launched a third and pushing for more cash. Hopefully it doesn't end the same way that Maelstrom did... Better than RH by a mile, obviously - but I much prefer the honesty of Jeremy's campaign here, and I'd love to see more campaigns take on this kind of mentality over the stretch-goal-freebie madness (and also a 6-12-18-month delay - oops!)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
RiTides wrote: Oh my gosh, I totally missed that post with the page rollover . I'll do my best to contain my enthusiasm, Alpharius (But if any other "pro chaos golem" folks want to join in the Google Hangout to help make the case for it, it would be appreciated )
I'd love to see one myself, but if it's not already in development, I'd rather see it in KS2 than risk delay in fulfilment times. I won't be able to make it into the hangout due to international times, but Jeremy - you can take this post as my contribution. I do support the idea of optional parts to make the BalrogThirster into a big-arse golem, though.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
basement.dweller wrote: As far as kickstarters go I detest the model of starting with half the box contents and adding them back in as "free" stretch goals as has been common with some companies. I've always thought that an upfront model with "this is what we want to do and this is how much we need to achieve that" is preferable. So you basically know what you are getting and can decide if it's something you want to back from the getgo. Anything added in or unlocked if you will should be just that - addons that are not really necessary for the product to function as intended.
As such I love how this KS is set up. No confusion.
Well, there is so much awesome that has transpired here in the last 4 hours, I barley know where to start
I am going to be doing something VERY cool for my Australian brothers and sisters over the next few days. I will announce it when it gets a bit closer.
I have got to show some love for the golem. That is a concept that edged out over a lot of others, and would be a dream sculpt for me since I love them.
Google hangouts are the place to send orders directly to my face I will have one tuesday, one thursday, and two on the weekend. The weekend ones, at least one with be aussie-friendly.
The Plaguedemon that may or may not but probably will enter the campaign will most probably be in the sliver level. The Treewoman that may or may not but probably will enter the campaign will most probably be in the sliver level. The dragons that may or may not but probably will enter the campaign will most probably be in the gold level. This may or may not be entirely likely to happen
My campaign seems weird to some people, I totally get that. There is a sense of distrust that forms when I do not dangle carrots, or keep adding stuff to upsell like crazy. In a weird way, we have come to trust the emotion of greed, in its predictability and frequency. However, most people understand my wanting to actually STOP adding models at the point at which I find the edge of my comfort zone. I will not step over this edge. It unfortunate we almost expect every Kickstarter to run late, and I am hoping to change the game a bit with my own campaign.
Having said all that, I am adding incentives and I do want a nice financial lump sum to start this company with some great momentum.. but not at the expense of leaving my comfort zone. Plus, the biggest aspect of a crowd funding campaign is NOT the money. It is the people. That is the most valuable resource, and if gathered correctly, is renewable and sustainable.
I've been quietly following the Mierce campaign thread, and it seems to me that it's a bit dishonest. It's not exactly what was said on the tin initially - a "2.5" campaign for "adding a few units" and seems instead to have gone into full-blown "push for cash" mode with a huge number of new sculpts. Since they were apparently 4-5 months late sending out their Wave 0 stuff, I can only imagine that the rest of their stuff will also be delayed, and so on and on in a chain reaction effecting their subsequent waves. While they seem to be doing well on the communication aspect, and the models appear to be of great quality, they slid on fulfilment of their first campaign and are now doing the same with their second - while having already launched a third and pushing for more cash. Hopefully it doesn't end the same way that Maelstrom did.
I am not to sure what you are going on about here, I received my wave 0 items back in January exactly on time, in fact I have received every item on time sometimes months earlier than originally planned. The only items that are late so far are the Waewulfas and that was out of their hands.
I am not to sure where the dishonest part is coming from either, they said from the start this KS was to finish off their expansion of the original 7 factions started in KS2, the next planned KS is to start producing models for the last two factions (a completely new project).
Automatically Appended Next Post: I should really not post things from my phone, I can never get the quote thing right!
Good new for the Aussies and Kiwis! 150 Early bird specials to be released at a time that doesn't completely suck for you!
... and if anyone else is bummed that they get a good time to snag up some early birds, be nice because you already got your great time slot. Give them a chance and share the love
CreatureCaster wrote: ... the biggest aspect of a crowd funding campaign is NOT the money. It is the people. That is the most valuable resource, and if gathered correctly, is renewable and sustainable.
CreatureCaster wrote: ... the biggest aspect of a crowd funding campaign is NOT the money. It is the people. That is the most valuable resource, and if gathered correctly, is renewable and sustainable.
Heh, I missed that comment before. I find it equally amusing as I find it disturbing.
CreatureCaster wrote: I have got to show some love for the golem. That is a concept that edged out over a lot of others, and would be a dream sculpt for me since I love them.
Don't tease me now! I would be so psyched for this (for your next campaign / later release, of course). Whatever spin you want to put on it would be amazing, I'm sure... so far all of your "artistic licenses" have paid off in the current sculpts, I think. I hope this is for real
CreatureCaster wrote: The Plaguedemon that may or may not but probably will enter the campaign will most probably be in the sliver level. The Treewoman that may or may not but probably will enter the campaign will most probably be in the sliver level. The dragons that may or may not but probably will enter the campaign will most probably be in the gold level. This may or may not be entirely likely to happen
Ah, that's exactly what I thought! But does this indicate, then, that the original LARGER plague demon may not make it in? I'm not sure if that would be gold-level or not. I know a lot of folks are interested in the smaller one, too, but if the larger one could make it in you might see more gold-level pledges. I don't know if it was just a technical challenge (size/mass) keeping it out, but if there's a chance of it making it back in, I think many would be thrilled.
CreatureCaster wrote: Good new for the Aussies and Kiwis! 150 Early bird specials to be released at a time that doesn't completely suck for you!
Very cool of you . Not totally sure what 7pm Sydney time is (on Tuesday) but I have a feeling there will be a lot of googling of that conversion in the next few days
Will the treewoman, treant w/e miniature be added to the bronze level? Right now the only bronze level miniature is the spider demon, though the kickstarter is all about 'receive one model listed at the bronze level' which implies there will be more than 1 model at bronze, and I can't imagine those two new dragons to be at bronze level, so it would have to be the treant
edited: just saw your note on these stretch goals stating the treewoman will probably be silver level... So there will only be a single bronze?
Requiem, if you read the second quote in my post above, it looks like the treewoman would be silver level (so there would only be one bronze model).
Also, CreatureCaster, it would be really good to edit in this link into the first post of this thread, so people don't have to dig for the link to the Kickstarter campaign now that it is live!
CreatureCaster wrote: I have got to show some love for the golem. That is a concept that edged out over a lot of others, and would be a dream sculpt for me since I love them.
Don't tease me now! I would be so psyched for this (for your next campaign / later release, of course). Whatever spin you want to put on it would be amazing, I'm sure... so far all of your "artistic licenses" have paid off in the current sculpts, I think. I hope this is for real
CreatureCaster wrote: The Plaguedemon that may or may not but probably will enter the campaign will most probably be in the sliver level. The Treewoman that may or may not but probably will enter the campaign will most probably be in the sliver level. The dragons that may or may not but probably will enter the campaign will most probably be in the gold level. This may or may not be entirely likely to happen
Ah, that's exactly what I thought! But does this indicate, then, that the original LARGER plague demon may not make it in? I'm not sure if that would be gold-level or not. I know a lot of folks are interested in the smaller one, too, but if the larger one could make it in you might see more gold-level pledges. I don't know if it was just a technical challenge (size/mass) keeping it out, but if there's a chance of it making it back in, I think many would be thrilled.
CreatureCaster wrote: Good new for the Aussies and Kiwis! 150 Early bird specials to be released at a time that doesn't completely suck for you!
Very cool of you . Not totally sure what 7pm Sydney time is (on Tuesday) but I have a feeling there will be a lot of googling of that conversion in the next few days
RiTides wrote: Requiem, if you the second quote in my post above, it looks like the treewoman would be silver level (so there would only be one bronze model).
Also, CreatureCaster, it would be really good to edit in this link to the first post of this thread, so people don't have to dig for the link to the Kickstarter campaign now that it is live!
CreatureCaster wrote: I am going to be doing something VERY cool for my Australian brothers and sisters over the next few days. I will announce it when it gets a bit closer.
I've been quietly following the Mierce campaign thread, and it seems to me that it's a bit dishonest. It's not exactly what was said on the tin initially - a "2.5" campaign for "adding a few units" and seems instead to have gone into full-blown "push for cash" mode with a huge number of new sculpts. Since they were apparently 4-5 months late sending out their Wave 0 stuff, I can only imagine that the rest of their stuff will also be delayed, and so on and on in a chain reaction effecting their subsequent waves. While they seem to be doing well on the communication aspect, and the models appear to be of great quality, they slid on fulfilment of their first campaign and are now doing the same with their second - while having already launched a third and pushing for more cash. Hopefully it doesn't end the same way that Maelstrom did... Better than RH by a mile, obviously - but I much prefer the honesty of Jeremy's campaign here, and I'd love to see more campaigns take on this kind of mentality over the stretch-goal-freebie madness (and also a 6-12-18-month delay - oops!)
Well, not to drag things off topic or talk too much about what is (currently) a rival campaign, but I'm backing both, so I figure I'm allowed!
Perhaps you should have followed the MM campaign a bit more noisily, so we could have helped you out with some stuff.
Firstly, I got my Wave 0 stuff some time ago. Wave 0 wasn't exactly a specific date, it was "send when ready" as opposed to "send on fulfilment date" and backers paid extra. Therefore, anyone up until the original fulfilment date of the project (which was June IIRC, but I'm really not sure) nothing is late, just varying degrees of early.
Secondly, there is, to my understanding, a massive list of ideas and concepts waiting on funding for Darklands, up to and including new factions. Therefore, unlike Jeremy and CC, who has a very specific list of items he is seeking funding for, the Darklands campaign is very much open ended, in fact, some of the stretch goals have featured only partially completed artwork because the campaign has run ahead of what they were expecting!
That you should characterise a KS project by anyone as anything other than a "push for cash" is a bit odd, IMO, as what else are they? To characterise it as "dishonest" shows you've really not been following it closely enough to have an informed opinion at all.
Question:
After all the pre-KS talk about the importance of a simple KS and a fast/good process, why a (not so ASAP) shipping date of September?
As for "alt weapon ... Pincer Demon"...
I would love a "no weapon" (i.e. a second empty hand).
IMHO a deamon with pincers does not really need a weapon - plus it would make it easier for me to convert it into this:
kendoka wrote: Question:
After all the pre-KS talk about the importance of a simple KS and a fast/good process, why a (not so ASAP) shipping date of September?
Not taking into account possible tweaks to the sculpts, printing and molding - the casting is going to take a lot of time.
I roughly estimate the current number of models to 1500. I am sure that number will rise significantly before the KS is over. If you chalk May up to administration and logistics of new prints etc, you got 3 full months before it needs to be shipped. I am being generous here, but even if there were no more than 1500 models in 90 days that comes out to roughly 17 models a day (every day). That is a lot. Take into account that every kit has multiple parts and thus multiple silicone molds and as far as I know this is handcast. There is a set minimum amount of time it would take to mix resin, cast it, wait for it to cure and demold it. Given the size of the model you can't use the quickest curing resin so you can have time to get the airbubbles out and that also means you need to make a new batch for every pour. Then there is QC, miscasts, and packing. I guess it depends on how many people are doing the casting. It all takes time so September sounds like a really quick turnaround to me.
My review (based on pre-production images)
——————————————————————
Miniature: Spider Demon
Description: Really nice blend between a Giger illustration and a GW Daemonette.
Pose: Well balanced and threatening.
Best looking part: The back (spine and bony extra limbs).
Worst looking part: Face (both the ”Love Doll” and the ”Expressionless” ones). Where is the sadistic lust (sneering and showing fangs and tongue)?
Extras: 8-Eyed Head and Tongue Sword (rather uninspiring). No creepy spider feeling - just a mask and both swords are just as good.
Price:$75 CAD Competition: FW Keeper of Secrets (equally good but with its legs in a rather strange pose).
Overall verdict: Love the Giger parts - but Pincer Demon is an overall better Slaaneshi demon.
Rating: 3/5
Miniature: Warrior Demon
Description: An impressive looking Bloodthirster on steroids.
Pose: A bit too much. Looking as trying to split Mount Doom with one stroke.
Best looking part(s): The muscles with integrated skull armour and the face.
Worst looking part: Generic demon wings.
Extras: Forward Horns and Bone Cleaver (rather uninspiring). Same face and the weapon is hidden behind the body anyway.
Price:$95 CAD Competition: FW Bloodthirster (not as good).
Overall verdict: A really massive and well executed greater demon of Khorne.
Rating: 4/5
Miniature: Pincer Demon
Description: A dynamic greater demon of Slaneesh.
Pose: Really nince - but I would have prefeered it without the sword and with two open hands and two pincers.
Best looking part(s): Crab scales and the way it is posed - as if challanging a smaller foe.
Worst looking part: The face and especially the mouth (needs lots of pointy teeth like in the GW original drawing).
Extras: 4-Horn Head and another sword to be unlocked (rather uninspiring). Same face and the weapon is hidden behind the body anyway.
Price:$95 CAD Competition: None that I know about.
Overall verdict: A must-have for Slaneeshi players - but let down by the rather bland face.
Rating: 4/5
(being a big fan of the GW art I will buy one even though I don't play Chaos - but will probably wait until it is available in online stores)
Miniature: Vulture Demon
Description: A very nice greater demon of Tzeentch.
Pose: Really good.
Best looking part(s): The changing skin and the way it is posed - as if challanging a smaller foe.
Worst looking part: The spear head (no big deal though).
Extras: Elder Head (very nice).
Price:$95 CAD Competition: FW Lord of Change (inferior).
Overall verdict: A must-have for Tzeentch players.
Rating: 5/5
(really tempted to buy one just to paint it)
Miniature: Emperor Dragon
Description: The old Ultraforge dragon - but bigger and without armour.
Pose: Really good.
Best looking part(s): The changing skin and the way it is posed - as if challanging a smaller foe.
Worst looking part: The spear head.
Extras: Ancient Head (very nice). Would be nice to have armour plates as extras.
Price:$160 CAD Competition: FW Carmine Dragon and the Ultraforge Dragon (both better but smaller) and the Heresy Dragon (not as good but bigger - and unavailable).
Overall verdict: A *really* nice and BIG dragon.
Rating: 4/5
(might buy one - but then it will make my belowed Ultraforge dragon look smallish)
Miniature: Mountain Dragon
Description: A large dragon with folded wings perched on top of a cliff.
Pose: Rather good - but the ”humping the cliff” sadly makes it look like a one piece cast dragon statue from a Dollar store.
Best looking part(s): The scales/skin.
Worst looking part: The integrated cliff (really needs some air between the dragon and the stone).
Extras: Varped Head (nice but very similar to the normal head).
Price:$160 CAD Competition: FW Carmine Dragon and the Ultraforge Dragon (both better).
Overall verdict: A rather good dragon in a ”game setup” friendly pose.
Rating: 3/5
I have to agree here, I am planning to leave off the wings... I love everything else about it, though.
kendoka wrote: Extras: Forward Horns and Bone Cleaver (rather uninspiring). Same face and the weapon is hidden behind the body anyway.
I disagree here! The horns might not be that dramatically changing to the model's appearance, but they do add a lot (to me) rather than being stuck with the standard horns. I would have loved to have one of the extra bits be a way to build it without wings, though. I like the Bone Cleaver
kendoka wrote: Overall verdict: A really massive and well executed greater demon of Khorne.
Rating: 4/5
You are a hard crowd, but the feedback is helpful, I'm sure! I'd have given it a 4.5, with the half point for the generic look of the wings.
Miniature: Spider Demon Description: Really nice blend between a Giger illustration and a GW Daemonette. Pose: Well balanced and threatening. Best looking part: The back (spine and bony extra limbs). Worst looking part: Face (both the ”Love Doll” and the ”Expressionless” ones). Where is the sadistic lust (sneering and showing fangs and tongue)? Extras: 8-Eyed Head and Tongue Sword (rather uninspiring). No creepy spider feeling - just a mask and both swords are just as good. Price:$75 CAD Competition: FW Keeper of Secrets (equally good but with its legs in a rather strange pose). Overall verdict: Love the Giger parts - but Pincer Demon is an overall better Slaaneshi demon. Rating: 3/5
Ouch you're hard to please with 3/5 Though I agree that the facial expression isn't spot on, I'm not sure whether or not this has been adressed. I've seen the video where her facial expression was adjusted, and really preferred the newer version. What I'm not sure of is what her facial expression will be on the final miniature. Would very much like to know as I've currently pledged at bronze level but am still doubting whether I should upgrade to silver for the warrior demon, which is also very cool but I do have to agree that the wings seem somewhat generic.
The Spider Demon is evolving into a beautiful beast. Her mouth in the video above has been re-sculpted into a more sly expression. This was prompted by fan interaction, and was documented in this Youtube vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBkonmC3q8E
Well, the bank says they should have a card to me by the 23rd, so I should be good to pledge this week. Now I have to decide whether I want the Vulture Demon and War Demon or the Vulture Demon and Pincer Demon. Hmmmm...decisions, decisions.
Darth Bob wrote: Well, the bank says they should have a card to me by the 23rd, so I should be good to pledge this week. Now I have to decide whether I want the Vulture Demon and War Demon or the Vulture Demon and Pincer Demon. Hmmmm...decisions, decisions.
Better get the pincer demon, it knows all your secrets.
Darth Bob wrote: Well, the bank says they should have a card to me by the 23rd, so I should be good to pledge this week. Now I have to decide whether I want the Vulture Demon and War Demon or the Vulture Demon and Pincer Demon. Hmmmm...decisions, decisions.
Better get the pincer demon, it knows all your secrets.
Darth Bob wrote: Well, the bank says they should have a card to me by the 23rd, so I should be good to pledge this week. Now I have to decide whether I want the Vulture Demon and War Demon or the Vulture Demon and Pincer Demon. Hmmmm...decisions, decisions.
Better get the pincer demon, it knows all your secrets.
N-n-no! No-one can know my secrets!
*Goes to hide collection of Nickelback albums.*
Yet you leave the Hanson albums in plain sight showing your a true slaanesh worshiper. Alpharius would be displeased.
Darth Bob wrote: Well, the bank says they should have a card to me by the 23rd, so I should be good to pledge this week. Now I have to decide whether I want the Vulture Demon and War Demon or the Vulture Demon and Pincer Demon. Hmmmm...decisions, decisions.
Better get the pincer demon, it knows all your secrets.
N-n-no! No-one can know my secrets!
*Goes to hide collection of Nickelback albums.*
Yet you leave the Hanson albums in plain sight showing your a true slaanesh worshiper. Alpharius would be displeased.
Or would he be more pleased?
But back on topic, I'm really interested to see what the second exclusive for the Pincer Demon is. Have we gotten it confirmed that it's just a different variant of sword or could we looking a the potential to get a different weapon? A multi-tongued-whip or flail would be pretty awesome. That may be the deciding factor for me between Pincer or Warrior.
There's currently a greyed out image on the main page, so it looks like a sword-type weapon to me. I think a whip would be awesome but maybe susceptible to breakage in resin.
I wish that somebody other than forgeworld would produce a dragon that I like that doesn't have the freaking Howda on it...or at least a dragon where the back isn't recessed to accommodate the thing. I just want a damn dragon, not a dragon being used as a chariot!
RiTides wrote: The upcoming free alternate parts have been hinted to replace that part, BrotherVord, so stay tuned and maybe you'll like the variant better!
That's good news. I don't tend to back kickstarters because I hate the idea of waiting months and months for something just to be shipped but these models have me as tempted as I have ever been. The idea of that warrior daemon squaring off with my forgeworld blood thirster just....yeah.
There will potentially be some unlocks for a riderless dragon in the campaign. There will be no completely naked dragons however. There has been a lot of demand for one however. I will strongly consider the option of a naked resculpt, or perhaps send out a survey.
I like the practicality of the dragon riding system that the dragons have now. I would be interested to know what rider models fit on the saddle now. What did you use as your template for the saddle?
I am fortunate to have a bunch of 28mm cavalry and riders here at home, so I used the space between their legs to form the basic shape of the saddle. Should fit most 28mm riders. If the saddle is too big, shave it down. If it is too small, easy green stuffing.
The flexibility and playability and convenience with the howdah make it my favourite option. Having said that, the aesthetic of the saddle is very nice, and if you have a rider on foot then it is the ultimate. With the howdah, I just really like the convenience of having a champion on it one day, a sorcerer on it the next, and an entirely different race's rider on it the next, and I do not need to paint a single 'on-foot' model becuase that same model is used for both.
I am going to be doing something VERY cool for my Australian brothers and sisters over the next few days. I will announce it when it gets a bit closer.
Google hangouts are the place to send orders directly to my face I will have one tuesday, one thursday, and two on the weekend. The weekend ones, at least one with be aussie-friendly.
Good to hear on both - and appreciated!
The Plaguedemon that may or may not but probably will enter the campaign will most probably be in the sliver level. The Treewoman that may or may not but probably will enter the campaign will most probably be in the sliver level. The dragons that may or may not but probably will enter the campaign will most probably be in the gold level. This may or may not be entirely likely to happen
My campaign seems weird to some people, I totally get that. There is a sense of distrust that forms when I do not dangle carrots, or keep adding stuff to upsell like crazy. In a weird way, we have come to trust the emotion of greed, in its predictability and frequency. However, most people understand my wanting to actually STOP adding models at the point at which I find the edge of my comfort zone. I will not step over this edge. It unfortunate we almost expect every Kickstarter to run late, and I am hoping to change the game a bit with my own campaign.
This is exactly what I want to hear, and with respect to a great many other campaigns, most of them don't seem to have thought it out as well as you have. Mantic is he only company that manages to deliver on time, but to be frank, their quality often suffers from over-promising and the huge size of their campaigns.
Having said all that, I am adding incentives and I do want a nice financial lump sum to start this company with some great momentum.. but not at the expense of leaving my comfort zone. Plus, the biggest aspect of a crowd funding campaign is NOT the money. It is the people. That is the most valuable resource, and if gathered correctly, is renewable and sustainable.
Hopefully you'll be able to take Raging Heroes to school on that one.
I like your stuff. I really like your stuff. I don't own any of the UF stuff, but the renders and test prints you've shown so far for these have really impressed me to a degree that only some of Mierce's and Forge World's models have come close to, and comes without the ...baggage of the former and the overly-inflated price tags of the latter. With this in mind, and the prices of your models, I'm really mindful of how I spend my money, and so the fact that I'm considering trusting you and your words with enough cash to pay for an "everything" pledge is really a compliment to your honest and no-bs manner. I'd much rather see someone who triple-checks their figures and works out everything in advance than someone who has great talent but a bit too much ends up in the "hopefully" basket.
I am not to sure what you are going on about here, I received my wave 0 items back in January exactly on time, in fact I have received every item on time sometimes months earlier than originally planned. The only items that are late so far are the Waewulfas and that was out of their hands.
I am not to sure where the dishonest part is coming from either, they said from the start this KS was to finish off their expansion of the original 7 factions started in KS2, the next planned KS is to start producing models for the last two factions (a completely new project).
No worries - fixed the quotes for you here.
I'm not going to get into a Mierce argument here, and it's fabulous that you got yours in Jan, but they only just posted that they've only just finished the shipping of the Wave 0 items. The "dishonest" comes from the fact that it's gone from something a bit more modest (if you can call a 400-quid pledge level "modest") and to "finish off" the last few things that they didn't get to - to a full-blown campaign with as many stretch goals, etc as they can possibly fit in - to the point where they were asking for pledges based on scrawled napkin concept art the other day (I'm not 100% up to date on the thread). With the size this third campaign has gotten to, I feel it might have been a bit more classy to finish the second campaign before launching something this big.
I've been quietly following the Mierce campaign thread, and it seems to me that it's a bit dishonest. It's not exactly what was said on the tin initially - a "2.5" campaign for "adding a few units" and seems instead to have gone into full-blown "push for cash" mode with a huge number of new sculpts. Since they were apparently 4-5 months late sending out their Wave 0 stuff, I can only imagine that the rest of their stuff will also be delayed, and so on and on in a chain reaction effecting their subsequent waves. While they seem to be doing well on the communication aspect, and the models appear to be of great quality, they slid on fulfilment of their first campaign and are now doing the same with their second - while having already launched a third and pushing for more cash. Hopefully it doesn't end the same way that Maelstrom did... Better than RH by a mile, obviously - but I much prefer the honesty of Jeremy's campaign here, and I'd love to see more campaigns take on this kind of mentality over the stretch-goal-freebie madness (and also a 6-12-18-month delay - oops!)
Well, not to drag things off topic or talk too much about what is (currently) a rival campaign, but I'm backing both, so I figure I'm allowed!
Perhaps you should have followed the MM campaign a bit more noisily, so we could have helped you out with some stuff.
Firstly, I got my Wave 0 stuff some time ago. Wave 0 wasn't exactly a specific date, it was "send when ready" as opposed to "send on fulfilment date" and backers paid extra. Therefore, anyone up until the original fulfilment date of the project (which was June IIRC, but I'm really not sure) nothing is late, just varying degrees of early.
Shipment Wave 0: before 2014/early 2014, depending on how many orders there are. This shipment wave will only happen if you pay extra to ship miniatures that are already available from our back catalogue when you manage your pledge. Malacant would also be included with this shipment if you pay extra to have him shipped in December 2014.
I know that backers were also told "December, maybe January". Mid-April is a pretty solid three-month delay from that. It wasn't "Late Q1" or anything like that. It's not exactly "early" either, if you've paid for it to be sent in Dec/Jan, surely? Moreso if you're basing it on the second shipping payment for June/July.
That you should characterise a KS project by anyone as anything other than a "push for cash" is a bit odd, IMO, as what else are they? To characterise it as "dishonest" shows you've really not been following it closely enough to have an informed opinion at all.
Thus sentence shows that you're either a massive one-eyed fanboi of Lane's or simply unable to comprehend what Jeremy and others have been talking about over the last couple of pages with very specific reference to the way this campaign is being run. I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain it. To attempt to discredit my opinion based on your differing opinion/strong like of Mierce pretty much renders my bothering to reply any further to this line of discussion to be pointless. Which is just one reason why I'm going to end my part of here, since this is the CC thread.
Any chance you can give any info on what facial expression the final version of the Spider Demon will have (the standard head)? May have missed out on the info, sorry if I did
I'm in for a silver early bird, getting the pincer demon, just posted on the kickstarter that I'm thinking of converting the weapon arm to be holding a giant anchor and chain. The crab look of this guy is just screaming for me to make a maritime army.
Would there be the possibility for some armor or something on the spider demons chest, making it a bit more safe for play in shops and clubs.
I don't realy want to be getting a realy nice model an having to potently destroy it to use it.
Also posibly a tail since I wanted to get 2/3 for my demons army's and it would be nice to have more varied features other than a face if posible.
Would there be the possibility for some armor or something on the spider demons chest, making it a bit more safe for play in shops and clubs.
I don't realy want to be getting a realy nice model an having to potently destroy it to use it.
Also posibly a tail since I wanted to get 2/3 for my demons army's and it would be nice to have more varied features other than a face if posible.
Couldn't you just file the nipples down as they're essentially the only part of the breast that people see as NSFW?
I personally like the aesthetic of the naked body as it enhances the H.R Giger influence (Sil from Species comes immediately to mind when looking at the Spider Demon not to mention Giger's work is pretty NSFW and very sexualized). If Jeremy was to provide some armour or chitin like plating as an extra then I'd have no complaint but to alter the model now after taking pledges would be a bad idea as any who pledged based on the current aesthetic may no longer have an interest (and yes even something as minor as changing the chest can be enough to ruin a whole aesthetic).
Would there be the possibility for some armor or something on the spider demons chest, making it a bit more safe for play in shops and clubs.
I don't realy want to be getting a realy nice model an having to potently destroy it to use it.
Also posibly a tail since I wanted to get 2/3 for my demons army's and it would be nice to have more varied features other than a face if posible.
Couldn't you just file the nipples down as they're essentially the only part of the breast that people see as NSFW?
I personally like the aesthetic of the naked body as it enhances the H.R Giger influence (Sil from Species comes immediately to mind when looking at the Spider Demon not to mention Giger's work is pretty NSFW and very sexualized). If Jeremy was to provide some armour or chitin like plating as an extra then I'd have no complaint but to alter the model now after taking pledges would be a bad idea as any who pledged based on the current aesthetic may no longer have an interest (and yes even something as minor as changing the chest can be enough to ruin a whole aesthetic).
That's what I will have to do, but would rather something to cover it over also, I don't need the model changed, I think it's fairly good mostly if not for that part. Finding sexulized female demons not hard at all, would like one without a bit also :0
Being that the male ones seem to not need them it kinda just looks a bit out of place.
But something to cover up would be good for what I need As you say the form can make it look good, but I don't think that adds much at all.
Would there be the possibility for some armor or something on the spider demons chest, making it a bit more safe for play in shops and clubs.
I don't realy want to be getting a realy nice model an having to potently destroy it to use it.
Also posibly a tail since I wanted to get 2/3 for my demons army's and it would be nice to have more varied features other than a face if posible.
Couldn't you just file the nipples down as they're essentially the only part of the breast that people see as NSFW?
I personally like the aesthetic of the naked body as it enhances the H.R Giger influence (Sil from Species comes immediately to mind when looking at the Spider Demon not to mention Giger's work is pretty NSFW and very sexualized). If Jeremy was to provide some armour or chitin like plating as an extra then I'd have no complaint but to alter the model now after taking pledges would be a bad idea as any who pledged based on the current aesthetic may no longer have an interest (and yes even something as minor as changing the chest can be enough to ruin a whole aesthetic).
That's what I will have to do, but would rather something to cover it over also, I don't need the model changed, I think it's fairly good mostly if not for that part. Finding sexulized female demons not hard at all, would like one without a bit also :0
Being that the male ones seem to not need them it kinda just looks a bit out of place.
But something to cover up would be good for what I need As you say the form can make it look good, but I don't think that adds much at all.
Couldn't the same complaint be made over the Forgeworld Keeper of Secrets? She has a bare breast with exposed nipple.
It's not simply the sexualization I'm after it's the Giger inspiration (the bio-mechanical corruption) which intrinsically involves a little eroticism. Hell, using Giger as a standard the Spider Demon is insanely tame but comparing the works you can see the inspiration and the reason her nudity is a part of the style.
Would there be the possibility for some armor or something on the spider demons chest, making it a bit more safe for play in shops and clubs.
I don't realy want to be getting a realy nice model an having to potently destroy it to use it.
Also posibly a tail since I wanted to get 2/3 for my demons army's and it would be nice to have more varied features other than a face if posible.
Couldn't you just file the nipples down as they're essentially the only part of the breast that people see as NSFW?
I personally like the aesthetic of the naked body as it enhances the H.R Giger influence (Sil from Species comes immediately to mind when looking at the Spider Demon not to mention Giger's work is pretty NSFW and very sexualized). If Jeremy was to provide some armour or chitin like plating as an extra then I'd have no complaint but to alter the model now after taking pledges would be a bad idea as any who pledged based on the current aesthetic may no longer have an interest (and yes even something as minor as changing the chest can be enough to ruin a whole aesthetic).
That's what I will have to do, but would rather something to cover it over also, I don't need the model changed, I think it's fairly good mostly if not for that part. Finding sexulized female demons not hard at all, would like one without a bit also :0
Being that the male ones seem to not need them it kinda just looks a bit out of place.
But something to cover up would be good for what I need As you say the form can make it look good, but I don't think that adds much at all.
Couldn't the same complaint be made over the Forgeworld Keeper of Secrets? She has a bare breast with exposed nipple.
It's not simply the sexualization I'm after it's the Giger inspiration (the bio-mechanical corruption) which intrinsically involves a little eroticism. Hell, using Giger as a standard the Spider Demon is insanely tame but comparing the works you can see the inspiration and the reason her nudity is a part of the style.
I don't dislike the spider demon, I have also seen gigers work.
And I honestly don't see that as much from the style.
I would like something to cover up that part so I can take it to clubs and stores to play with.
I also don't own the forgeworld keeper of secrets for the same reason right now.
I don't dislike the spider demon, I have also seen gigers work. And I honestly don't see that as much from the style. I would like something to cover up that part so I can take it to clubs and stores to play with. I also don't own the forgeworld keeper of secrets for the same reason right now.
I'm sorry, but if you can't see the Giger influence in this model, you haven't looked at enough Giger artwork. Slaanesh is the god of debauchery and hedonism; things are going to have exposed breasts and be sexualized. Seeing as how this is intended to be a pleasure demon and have heavy Giger influence (a man who's art deals very heavily in human anatomy and sexuality), leaving off the nipples would defeat the purpose. It's supposed to look sexy and visually arousing because that's its thing. Besides, the human body is a natural, beautiful part of nature and shouldn't be shamed by having to be covered up all the time. It's also worth mentioning that in ten years of playing 40k and other RPGs, I have never been in a FLGS that had an issue with models like this or would disallow its use. For decades, companies have been making bare-breasted and naked scale models and for decades they have been sold by FLGS's. Heck, even Games Workshop has put out bare-breasted Daemonettes, bare-breasted Dark Elf Gorgon, and the six-breasted Slaaneshi steed model. They're just boobs. If your hobby store is really that upset about a tiny pair of tastefully presented boobs, then you should probably find a new store to play at. If it's that big of an issue for you, then either file the nipples off or get a different model. The artist should not have to alter his vision because a pair of tits upsets you or your hobby store.
Generally speaking though, if boobs are a problem for you, stick to non-Slaaneshi Daemons.
I'm hoping the second extra for the Vulture Daemon is a new variation on the staff. Something along the lines of a mutated staff that looks like it's alive would be pretty cool. Maybe the staff tip could have tentacles wrapped around it or something like that. Some kind of seeing eye glass or fireball for his other hand would be awesome as well.
I'm sorry, but if you can't see the Giger influence in this model, you haven't looked at enough Giger artwork. Slaanesh is the god of debauchery and hedonism; things are going to have exposed breasts and be sexualized. Seeing as how this is intended to be a pleasure demon and have heavy Giger influence (a man who's art deals very heavily in human anatomy and sexuality), leaving off the nipples would defeat the purpose.
Giger's most distinctive stylistic innovation is that of a representation of human bodies and machines in a cold, interconnected relationship, he described as "biomechanical". His paintings often display fetishistic sexual imagery.
There is nothing "Gigeresque" biomechanical about that Lady-Daemon, none of that "Alien-Ship-Aesthetic-Fusion" that defined his most famous creation on screen, none of the fetishistic sexual imagery that defines his explicit works.
azreal13 wrote: Or a two headed variant for a Fateweaver counts as?
That'd be cool as well, though I'd imagine that would have to require a pretty big extra piece and/or resculpt to be a reality. But, Jeremy, you should definitely look into this. I'd pay for an entire second model to get a giant two-headed Vulture demon.
Giger's most distinctive stylistic innovation is that of a representation of human bodies and machines in a cold, interconnected relationship, he described as "biomechanical". His paintings often display fetishistic sexual imagery.
There is nothing "Gigeresque" biomechanical about that Lady-Daemon, none of that "Alien-Ship-Aesthetic-Fusion" that defined his most famous creation on screen, none of the fetishistic sexual imagery that defines his explicit works.
A bipedal insect with tits doesn't make a Giger.
I'm going to have to strongly disagree. There's a lot of biomechanical influences in the design of the model; specifically around the design of the head and torso. That being said, as RiTides said, this is probably a topic that should be kept to PM.
RiTides wrote: Point's made, maybe you two can continue arguing via PM
Creature Caster posted the next piece is special (replacement for the dragon saddle / howdah?) and will be revealed shortly!
Quoted because obviously they didn't see a MOD telling them to knock it off
He might be able to get rid of the Howdah/saddle, but what about all the straps and stuff. Also I'd want my emperor dragon to have five claws on the hands like a true Chinese emperor dragon
Clearly Giger was an influence (see "Sil"). So is the sculpture of Michelangelo, and it clearly doesn't look like one of his sculpts either.
With my female shapes, I go to lengths to make sure they are not overly sexualized. That might sound weird to a person with more puritanical values, because anything nude is sexualized to them. I however enjoy classical art where almost everyone is nude. Many of us have come to realize that the anatomical components that make something feminine are often the small things like the collarbones, the diameter of the neck, the height of the hips, etc. These things all resonate on a more intangible level.
The Treewoman is very feminine, and is nude. She certainly is not overly sexuality and feels very classical and honest. She does have nipples, tho very subdued. The prominence of the nipples will have more to do with the attention they receive during painting, as opposed to the sculpt.
We can totally talk design, I just meant the back and forth on whether they should be "nekkid" or not was played out enough already, as its clearly going to stay as is.
Very interesting reading the design influences posted by creature caster above, including Giger!
Next unlock says "Community Event" with a video apparently coming soon to explain that. Community input for the design of the extra piece, maybe...
Next unlock says "Community Event" with a video apparently coming soon to explain that. Community input for the design of the extra piece, maybe...
Considering how involved Jeremy's been with the community, this really wouldn't surprise me. That's really one of the things I've loved to much about this campaign is the involvement it's had with community opinions and consumer ideas.
I bring up above since I do like he spider demon, why I was considering getting more than one.
And something to cover her a bit, would be very helpfull as my ability to change it is limited and would detract from the model.
YES!!!!!!! He mentioned my moose antler idea in the new video HAHA!!!!! Well there goes my three seconds of fame in life . It's always great to see your feedback is listened too, even when it's crazy ideas, and I had no idea he had already planned antlers for another model .
Theophony, you tricked me! I just watched that whole video and there's not one mention of a golem . Did it get mentioned somewhere else that I missed?? (For later release, not in the Kickstarter, of course)
And lol about the antlers, that was pretty great. I also know your Kickstarter name, now
Now that's intriguing. I'm really interested in seeing what Jeremy does with that. I would love if it was a kind of amorphous Chaos Spawn-ish creature.
RiTides wrote: Theophony, you tricked me! I just watched that whole video and there's not one mention of a golem . Did it get mentioned somewhere else that I missed?? (For later release, not in the Kickstarter, of course)
And lol about the antlers, that was pretty great. I also know your Kickstarter name, now
You knew my name from me sending goodies your way a while back . He mentions that one of the ideas that has been brought up in the comments section was going to be coming, he was really excited about it, I thought for sure it was the golem, but he said it would be announced later.
I know this may sound weird but I think that adding masculine characteristic such as a a flat chest and phallus, while at the same time keeping the overall feminine shape and figure would have been best for exhibiting Giger based influences. It also would have helped for making it a Slaaneshi model due to Slaanesh being both masculine and feminine. I completely understand not changing the model now that it's actually finished, but in the future a hermaphroditic demon would be a nifty addition.
While I respect and appreciate your willingness to make suggestions,I just wanted to make a Spider Demon, that looked like a demonic Sil only with a more biomechanical spine, who was originally made by HR Giger.
If we could please read all of our suggestions once over and if they contain sentences along the lines of "please more closely copy GW in order to make it more like something they would make" then please do not share it with me.
I like, GW, and they like me when I am not playing hockey directly on their pond. They want me at least one pond away. (Canadian thing )
... nor would I tap their trees for syrup nor slaughter their pigs for delicious Canadian back bacon.
My new card came in today and I rushed to my laptop to finally pledge for this campaign. Pledged for the Vulture and Pincer Demons. I may or may not decide to go with the Plague Demon if he ever shows up, depending on how he ends up looking.
CreatureCaster wrote: While I respect and appreciate your willingness to make suggestions,I just wanted to make a Spider Demon, that looked like a demonic Sil only with a more biomechanical spine, who was originally made by HR Giger.
If we could please read all of our suggestions once over and if they contain sentences along the lines of "please more closely copy GW in order to make it more like something they would make" then please do not share it with me.
I like, GW, and they like me when I am not playing hockey directly on their pond. They want me at least one pond away. (Canadian thing )
... nor would I tap their trees for syrup nor slaughter their pigs for delicious Canadian back bacon.
Sorry if I offended at all. Though my reasoning for wanting a between genders demon wasn't just to be more like GW. I've just always thought of demons as being beyond mortal reproduction. Thus any sexual characteristics they have are the result of their actions or desires, thus a demon that finds sexual diamorphism absurd or who represents a unity of complimentary sides would have characteristics of both genders.
tormund wrote: I know this may sound weird but I think that adding masculine characteristic such as a a flat chest and phallus, while at the same time keeping the overall feminine shape and figure would have been best for exhibiting Giger based influences. It also would have helped for making it a Slaaneshi model due to Slaanesh being both masculine and feminine. I completely understand not changing the model now that it's actually finished, but in the future a hermaphroditic demon would be a nifty addition.
Haven't you heard? Bewbs are the mortal's Achilles heel :-P. If you want your spider daemon to have a wiener, sculpt one on. But please don't force everyone else to have to paint a wiener. I'm not sure they'd be able to concentrate with some messed up daemon junk staring them in the face lol
There's nothing wrong with the Spider daemon model. Please. Don't change it!!
Haven't you heard? Bewbs are the mortal's Achilles heel :-P. If you want your spider daemon to have a wiener, sculpt one on. But please don't force everyone else to have to paint a wiener. I'm not sure they'd be able to concentrate with some messed up daemon junk staring them in the face lol
There's nothing wrong with the Spider daemon model. Please. Don't change it!!
Why are boobs okay but a dick isn't? Giger aliens are currently being made into a miniatures game and their heads are literally penises. Kingdom Death has plenty of dick monsters. Also I already said that it'd be for a later model.
IMHO:
Although you may claim to be ponds away - and hope GW agrees - your Demons are already very obviously from their universe (and removing the Nurgle one was smart). As is Avatars of War and others, you are intentionally and not so subtle drawing buyers from the GW crowd (i.e. us). Making smallish alterations (be it multiple or hidden boobs, expressions, tounges or horns) does not make your sculpts any more GW. And, as nothing in new under the sun, you can probably claim to have found inspiration from the same sources as GW has ripped from.
The early sketches of the new Plague Demon do however show a completely new take on a Nurgle Demon (i.e. not an immobile fat one). Bravo.
In order to not face legal trouble, making a few non-GW substitutes (golems, elementals, monsters, other demons, etc.) might be a good idea.
Haven't you heard? Bewbs are the mortal's Achilles heel :-P. If you want your spider daemon to have a wiener, sculpt one on. But please don't force everyone else to have to paint a wiener. I'm not sure they'd be able to concentrate with some messed up daemon junk staring them in the face lol
There's nothing wrong with the Spider daemon model. Please. Don't change it!!
Why are boobs okay but a dick isn't? Giger aliens are currently being made into a miniatures game and their heads are literally penises. Kingdom Death has plenty of dick monsters. Also I already said that it'd be for a later model.
I'm not sure how much of Giger's work you've seen but it's kinda messed up. Like A LOT messed up. And I think a number of folks on here would agree with me that Kingdom Death has some pretty messed up stuff too. Plus, Creature Caster already has the giant 4 armed bull headed pincer daemon to cover the male gender.
On topic: Loving the dragon bits that are getting unlocked at the moment.
RiTides wrote: If you were all getting the awesome warrior demon like me, you wouldn't have these conundrums
So happens I am getting the Warrior daemon too . No junk staring me in the face thanks verry much lol. Giant angry Daemon of Khorne/Daemon Prince of Khorne paintjob for him mefinks.
Ah miniature wargaming, the one artistic pursuit in which the standard analytical and aesthetic appreciation of the human form is replaced with "EWWWWW, A WIENER! "
[Off Topic] I have been banned from a forum for posting a pic of my Inq28 male daemon host wearing nothing but chains and sigils. Apparently even 28 mm scale genitals can corrupt the younger (?) audience. Worse than meddling with Chaos.[\]
Any pictures of the vulture minion and dragon extras?
RiTides wrote: If you were all getting the awesome warrior demon like me, you wouldn't have these conundrums
So happens I am getting the Warrior daemon too . No junk staring me in the face thanks verry much lol. Giant angry Daemon of Khorne/Daemon Prince of Khorne paintjob for him mefinks.
I guess neither of you looked very closely at the sword/axe combo thing
IMHO:
...your Demons are already very obviously from their universe.
Interesting...because, IMHO, doing a google search for "AD&D Demon" turns up some very old monsters such as the Baalor, Glabrezu, succubus, etc who might just disagree with you!!!
(And by very old I mean "predates GW by a long shot, and GW drew on them for their Chaos pantheon...")
I suggest that what Jeremy is doing is provably drawing on very old archetypes, not on GW's playground.
And, FFS, leave the Spider Daemon alone - it's brilliant as is.
IMHO:
...your Demons are already very obviously from their universe.
Interesting...because, IMHO, doing a google search for "AD&D Demon" turns up some very old monsters such as the Baalor, Glabrezu, succubus, etc who might just disagree with you!!!
(And by very old I mean "predates GW by a long shot, and GW drew on them for their Chaos pantheon...")
I suggest that what Jeremy is doing is provably drawing on very old archetypes, not on GW's playground.
Were all those old pre-GW D&D daemons specifically designed to rank up nicely in GW-style fantasy-regiments with 28mm Miniatures too? Funny how I forgot how the old D&D stuff managed that.
Every astute gamer (or elderly one, in my case) knows that I am drawing upon pre-GW references. If a person has never heard of a Balor, Glabrezu or Vrock then I would not expect them to think otherwise.
but... this is how we grow. Veterans in this hobby know what's up, and I am always impressed with their level of knowledge and acceptance.
News about the Vulture Demon minion public events coming later on tonight.
Well, just change up the bases and/or the poses so that they are clearly incompatible with ranked 28mm Warhammer Fantasy wargaming, and you'd free of that suspicion.
A pity. You're probably one of the most talented sculpters I've seen. And with 10 years of industry-experience, it be inspiring to see what you could do if you'd choose to do something original, rather than free-riding on other people's labour.
Jeremy, allow me to introduce you to Zwei, a fellow who tirelessly courts controversy, apparently to try and generate clicks for his blog.
He is best handled by ignoring, or highlighting the massive holes of logic in his arguments, although the latter may result in your having to witness an inordinate amount of wriggling, contortion and goal post moving, so if you don't have the stomach, just let him shout at a wall til he gets bored.
Yes, indeed he would... and Tolkien. I would admit that. Well said.
Plus, I think a post Chapterhouse GW is a lot more understanding about their own place in the Pantheon of shared fantasy. They also now realize more than ever that this is largely an open source effort, and I have taken lengths to keep my sculpts neutral and harken to the finer points of my fave pre-GW innovators. It is a tapestry.
... and thanks for the heads up azreal13. We are just having a friendly nerdfight. It is what we do
Speaking of Tolkein, what would be the chances of a dragon like Glaurung reaching Creature Caster be? A sort of bulky but still serpentine wingless dragon.
I think you ought to stick to some of the oldie beasties, CreatureCaster. The Balor, Glabrazu, and Vrock are great starters, but perhaps you might think about a Chasme or a Marilith, too?
Or, should you be so inclined, perhaps even a Pit Fiend, or a Demogorgon - I would love to see your take on some of these old favourites.
Minions, Dragons and Trees? OH MY! 1 comment Like 4 likes
Wow, a very big update. Later tonight I will be announcing what is involved with the Minion unlock.
We hit 140K and I unlocked the first dragons rider'less kit upgrade. To avoid people asking if the next dragon would have one... I unlocked it as well! I can do that. I work here
I love these kits, and now these dragons can really do anything other than be completely naked, which is something we will consider for future dragons down the road.
Plus, we see that the next unlock is actually a stretch goal model?! We must be ahead of schedule. Here is an even sneakier sneak peak just for you.....
I think that was meant literally- they can have a rider, or no rider and be slightly armored, but not be fully naked. So, they work for anything but that, and he'll consider that for future designs.
How about an asian dragon? I kind if referenced it earlier with the differences between the power levels could be different head styles AND different number if toes. The emperor dragon was the oh one to have five toes/claws, any peasent with a symbol with five was executed. Four toes is a powerful dragon and three is your run of the mill garden variety eat your of dragon.
I suspect there will be some further iterations that the Treewoman will go thru, and that is cool to. We are only done sculpting the model up until it is sent to the printers.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Theophony, I am impressed with your lore. You rolled a natural 20. Actually, I am going to be avoiding dragons of the asian persuasion since my friends at Arcane Factories have one planned, which I am very much looking forward to seeing.
I just looked them up , they have some neat concepts, but nothing that grabs me. Of course they have a kickstarter coming up , there will probably be cool stuff there as well.
Okay, no Asian dragons, how about some Egyptian colossal god avatar like things . I'd love to see your take on Anubis, Ra, Set or other members of the pantheon, you could model them on fallen plinths or obelisks. Or if that's not your "thing", how about You Get all medieval us and draw some inspiration from Catholic Church artwork and history. I haven't seen a good take on the four horsemen of the apocalypse.
CreatureCaster wrote: Yes, indeed he would... and Tolkien. I would admit that. Well said.
Plus, I think a post Chapterhouse GW is a lot more understanding about their own place in the Pantheon of shared fantasy. They also now realize more than ever that this is largely an open source effort, and I have taken lengths to keep my sculpts neutral and harken to the finer points of my fave pre-GW innovators. It is a tapestry.
... and thanks for the heads up azreal13. We are just having a friendly nerdfight. It is what we do
Fair enough. I can certainly respect that mentality.
Jeremy, allow me to introduce you to Zwei, a fellow who tirelessly courts controversy, apparently to try and generate clicks for his blog.
He is best handled by ignoring, or highlighting the massive holes of logic in his arguments, although the latter may result in your having to witness an inordinate amount of wriggling, contortion and goal post moving, so if you don't have the stomach, just let him shout at a wall til he gets bored.
The pose does look familiair, but we can't really say much until we see the actual model I suppose. Clearly the head area is different, and who knows what else might be. I think the treewoman looks very promising! Might have to consider changing the spider demon for a treewoman. Will the treewoman have unlocked (kickstarter only) parts as well?
Currently, the pose is similar to the Ultraforge Treewoman, in regards to the fact that she is kneeling. She also has a claw option, which makes her similar as well. That is where the similarities end. This new tree creature has a different approach to the "skin" where her bark becomes the segmented 'lame' of her segmented 'armor'. She is much more grizzled and battle scarred, while seeming even more elegant and feminine.
Many will say she is the same because of the pose, even tho the pose is different, it might not be different enough for some. This is completely fair and justified, and I understand. The pose is a work in progress and it is planned to evolve the pose away from the Ultraforge Treewoman.
Hey, join me with the Chillers and we can talk about everything that has popped up in the conversation and more. Showtimes are on the graphic below, and links will be on the Facebook once the show airs.
Poses like this are an example of what I am talking about, but we will go thru about a dozen silhouettes before settling on the right one. The concept art is really a start and not an end.
I am really liking that pose for the treewoman, makes her loom over her targets and gives it a more dangerous feel over the kneeling down protective pose of your previous treewoman.
xera32 wrote: I am really liking that pose for the treewoman, makes her loom over her targets and gives it a more dangerous feel over the kneeling down protective pose of your previous treewoman.
I agree, I would definitely prefer the looming pose! At least, just based on silhouettes, can't wait to see the actual model . The "segmented armor" and "grizzled and battle scarred" while still seeming elegant all sound great
I am glad the looming pose has support. I will show you a bunch of silhouettes once I unveil the model. To be honest, I usually start my designs from safe places and then branch out from there.
I didn't, but then again I never can see the forest because of all the trees .
Now we just need a stone golem so there can be a "sticks and stones will break your bones" pledge
Back on topic as were getting into the weeds again , I wasn't able to do the hangout because of my final exam today, eagerly waiting on the pics and news .
I really hope you do release that pose... I actually have a use for a giant, looming tree woman now, and it looks like I will have some cash to throw at it! Please take my monies!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, and I can't help but point out that yes, AD&D did have a line of miniatures that were designed to rank up on bases. Ral Partha made them for the Battlesystem and Battlesystem: Skirmishes rules.
So, you know, there is nothing new under the sun I know, I was there for it.
IMHO:
Although you may claim to be ponds away - and hope GW agrees - your Demons are already very obviously from their universe (and removing the Nurgle one was smart). As is Avatars of War and others, you are intentionally and not so subtle drawing buyers from the GW crowd (i.e. us). Making smallish alterations (be it multiple or hidden boobs, expressions, tounges or horns) does not make your sculpts any more GW. And, as nothing in new under the sun, you can probably claim to have found inspiration from the same sources as GW has ripped from.
The early sketches of the new Plague Demon do however show a completely new take on a Nurgle Demon (i.e. not an immobile fat one). Bravo.
In order to not face legal trouble, making a few non-GW substitutes (golems, elementals, monsters, other demons, etc.) might be a good idea.
There's a good point here. The addition of a Whip to the Rage Demon would make it more Balrog (traditional, pre-WETA) than Bloodthirster (based on... the Balrog!) in my eyes. Honestly, though, I'd be scared of breakage from a long, lashing resin whip, but I'd be mighty fine with a coiled one. Then again, I've got a spare Hot Toys 1:6 Predator coiled whip sitting around somewhere, so maybe it will find a home.
I know warhammer is still probably the biggest game out there but god I wish people would stop asking for stuff to be more warhammer-y. There are already tons of that stuff on the market and frankly anyone that thinks a model from here can't be a bloodthirster because it doesn't have a whip has no imagination.
Jeremy, allow me to introduce you to Zwei, a fellow who tirelessly courts controversy, apparently to try and generate clicks for his blog.
He is best handled by ignoring, or highlighting the massive holes of logic in his arguments, although the latter may result in your having to witness an inordinate amount of wriggling, contortion and goal post moving, so if you don't have the stomach, just let him shout at a wall til he gets bored.
Something that we can agree on, at least! Though he tends to follow the internet argument rules of "never apologise, never admit when you're wrong, never compromise". I've got him on ignore, myself, so I only see his posts now when he stirs up enough trouble to have people I'm happy to read the posts of start quoting him.
For me? I don't play WHFB any more, and haven't for years now. I'm planning to use these models for Kings of War as well as 40k for some. This makes me happy that they use pretty industry-standard-sized bases (though I could go bigger as well). I'll happily use them alongside my figures and models from Citadel, Mantic, Rackham, Heartbreaker, Forge World, Reaper, Kromlech, Maxmini, Wizards of the Coast, Minifigs, McFarlane Toys, Avatars of War, Raging Heroes, Shield Wolf, Wargames Foundry, Hasslefree, Red Box, Heresy, Warlord, Anvil, Fantasy Flight, DUST, CMON, McVey, Mierce, Perry, Wargames Factory, Dreamforge Games, Victoria Miniatures, Ral Partha, Grenadier, Copplestone Castings, Artizan, Renegade.... and on and on.
All of whom most likely rip off GW at every opportunity while having never influenced anyone who has ever worked at GW. I wonder what happens in Zwei's head when someone like Kev Adams makes orcs and gobboes for GW in his own signature style, leaves, and then continues making Orcs and Gobboes in his own signature style, but for different companies.
Vrock on, Jeremy!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
CreatureCaster wrote: Poses like this are an example of what I am talking about, but we will go thru about a dozen silhouettes before settling on the right one. The concept art is really a start and not an end.
Standing rather than kneeling is my strong vote. I had no interest in a treewoman, but now you have it piqued. Though it won't be if she's kneeling.
Right on brother. You just dropped some serious science right there.
edit: and yes, no kneeling pose. She is crouched in the concept art, but that is only to fit her body into a frame that is not to tall for the Kickstarter page, 8x10, etc. She will be standing and we are doing extensive silhouettes in order to get her just right. Work in progress, shaped by you guys.
How about smaller versions of these guys for use in other games. I don't do warhammer fantasy, haven't since fourth or fifth edition, though I play KoW now with my brother in law time to time using mantic and old GW models that I had. I'd love to be able to use my pincer demon as a giant, and then have others similar to him as trolls and if you made 28mm guys I could see doing rank and file to replace my orcs.
Mantic (the home of all the good old GW boyz), doesn't care who's figures you use, even state it in their rulebook, as long as the model conveys who it represents. I think you could talk to them and possibly work something out with them to do some big guys for their game system.
Also at what point will you think about switching to plastic? I don't want to start a brewhaha, but if you get enough business from the resins how about talking to WGF to see about going plastic? They can get the super details for your models, and as he continue to grow your line might be "big" enough to be a great seller.
Also do you have any interest in doing any sci fi oriented work? Or will everything be more organic?
Jeremy, your willingness to listen to the community in your design process never ceases to amaze me. I may have missed it in the video, but any idea when the next hangout for the minion's design is going to take place?
For those not following the comments on the kickstarter for these models, there are some great ideas that have popped up. A giant angel of death seems to be in the lead, but there are some other great ideas that have been thrown into the ring as well including my all time favorite suggestion by someone else....a Canadian Chimera. What's that you say. It has the heads of polar bears, moose, and beaver along with a beaver tail. Never underestimate how dangerous canada can be, the Australians think they have it bad with all their wildlife, but obviously people have survived those beasts and been able to show pictures. In canada when the wildlife gets you there's no escape or photographic evidence of what took you.
Cyporiean we still need to twist Jeremy's arm some more, and bribe him with loads if Canadian bacon topped with maple syrup and mayo. I love the treevolution he's trying to push but I want a Canadian chimera.
Mantic (the home of all the good old GW boyz), doesn't care who's figures you use, even state it in their rulebook, as long as the model conveys who it represents. I think you could talk to them and possibly work something out with them to do some big guys for their game system.
Okay. You just blew my fething mind.
The stuff that Jeremy's putting out will be so far out of Mantic's current ability and production zone that it could just be a perfect fit. Mantic have shown a willingness to work with other companies for mantic-themed items quite a few times - Secret Weapon Battle Boards, Antenoceti's Workshop resin scenery, that other company who made suction-moulded (I've forgotten the correct term) DeadZone arenas. Big centrepiece models like Dragons, Demons, Angels, Treants, Giants of the quality shown in Jeremy's renders would only do great things for Kings of War and Warpath.
The only thing I take issue with is the comment about Mantic being the home of all the good old GW boys. It's more a diaspora, with Mantic being just part of it with Perry Miniatures, Foundry, Warlord, Copplestone, McVey (though still not forgiven for SW) and all of the others that mostly freelance now like Priestly, Chambers, Kev Adams and even those we associate with Mantic like Calvatore and Thornton.
Still, regardless of my pedantry, that's one brilliant, idea, Theo.
It seems like zombie dragon is up next and it looks great from the glimpse I caught.
And maybe a jackalope pet for the treewalker, which is awesome.
So now we need a stonewalker as stand in for a greater obsidian golem for abyssal dwarfs which of cause would be stepping on someone else IP, but they don't have one and as someone said mantic is really large about using models from other companies.
You know you want to... 
. Sorry guys... maybe you can catch a nap jonolikespie, since I know it's late there... just don't fall deep asleep and miss the button mashing!
, pincer daemon will be mine.
skulls as those are trademarked. Unless it's another dragons skull crushed and beaten in battle, a grand souvenir of a former rival or top dog( er.....dragon)
. But looks like all is good now with the kickstarter.
we want you to live through this and there's more excitement to be had tomorrow. Just think how much fun it will be to wake up and see the numbers then instead o just sitting and hitting F5. Get some rest, refresh, and one up with more great ideas for KS2.
. Did it get mentioned somewhere else that I missed?? (For later release, not in the Kickstarter, of course)
yanks guys, guess when I opened it I didn't give it enough time to refresh.
