casvalremdeikun wrote: Anyone spy anything new in the model image? Not really spotting anything. That DA Chaplain is making me jealous, though. Might have to get one and turn those swords into blood drops or file the icons off and use him for my Crimson Fists. Very cool looking model.
Nothing new, sadly. Well, one good thing is that they're keeping the old robed Company Veterans instead of using generic SM Sternguard with the DA upgrade sprue as I thought they would.
It's the first time i've seen a dark angels hooded figure icon with the tubing coming from the facial area. It seems that 'Grimdark' is the way forward for the DA.
I want Skyhammer rules with Deathwing and Ravenwing, dammit.
The tubing is cool and everything but what makes DA grimdark is the fact that they pretend to be paragon knights of Humanity while killing and torturing everyone who
gets in the way or has the slightest inkling to further their vague and nebulous agenda.
I would rather have subtle, yet significant, changes to points, war gear, and USR's that make the army solid from turn 1 to end of the game. A fun Alpha/Beta strike would be a cool addition, but in the end it's no different than smite mode on the Deathwing Knights...once you pop the cherry you having nothing else significant in terms of staying power.
I have high hopes for a balanced dex that makes every unit in the book usable and I have no delusions we will see anything on the order of Canoptek Harvest or Dirty-D Eldar.
I don't even really care if it's under powered, just as long as you are able to run a DW or RW fluff type list. If the benefits are fluff compatible then I'll be dusting off my bikes for a game
Brillow80 wrote: Then lets hope GW makes some rules that makes the DA kits fly off the shelves!
The aged cynic in me suggests that due to DA being a big part of the 40K starter box, they will get a good codex to really get people buying all of the extra models that there are available.
Now I'm not sure if I needed to painstakingly file off all my Ravenwing bikes.... I've kept Plasma on them tho, so I'm just waiting for news if they are going to be DA successors or IH.
Ignatius wrote: So what do we think the chances of us getting talkers/hunters are?
BA and SW didn't get them, so precedent says no.
That said, GW will spin the wheel and you will get what you get, maybe W2 terminators, maybe hunters/stalkers, maybe less than you have know. RANDOM!
Oh excellent!
Random = fun!
...oh wait
They keep you guessing, you have to give them that much.
Hunter/Stalker sound as improbable as centurions or TFCs.
Grav weaponry on the other hand, and especially grav devestators will be interesting to se how they deal with. BA got some grav guns and pistols at least...
Leth wrote: If it's in a kit they have the bits for then they will probably get it.
Since they use the tactical and dev squads now they will probably get the same items
Putting BA firmly in the red-headed Step-Codex position for this edition due to the probable lack of options contained within the Assault and Devastator kits unless we see some sort of FAQ for them.
They did get a f-ton of formations though of varying degrees of effectiveness.
It will be formations that make or break the book, although points drops and buffs across the board will be nice.
I hope they change Stasis weaponry as well.
Already we have some lulzy combinations with codex AA.
I've been running a deathstar of Ravenwing Command Squad + Libarius Conclave of 5 Epistolaries on bikes, like a Space Marine Seer council, it's been pretty hilarious!
I won't be online unil later today, but like in the last months, it COULD be that Gamestrust.de will be the first to show photos of the upcoming WD, maybe even today. They already have a gallery tab, which is currently empty. When they post pics, they should turn up there or in the article list beneath:
Warhams-77 wrote: I won't be online unil later today, but like in the last months, it COULD be that Gamestrust.de will be the first to show photos of the upcoming WD, maybe even today. They already have a gallery tab, which is currently empty. When they post pics, they should turn up there or in the article list beneath:
in some of the tidbits is mentioned the following:
"Dark angels are known for their discipline (even guilliman respects says that) need proof? look at the overwatch fire of a battle demi-company!"
and "dark angels are known to attack hard and fast. expect the deathwing to assault on turn 2"
the upcomming WD has(sorry if it isnt 100% translated):
- at the dusk of a new age...
-...we are celebrating warhammer
- new mission: hunt The Fallen
no real leaks yet dear friends. expect them on the following tuesday/wednesday. when i got the book in my hands.
Hmm... if the Dark Angels Codex turns out to be good that'll be too many "overpowered" Codices in a row. They'll need to do a weak one as a "cool down".
H.B.M.C. wrote: Hmm... if the Dark Angels Codex turns out to be good that'll be too many "overpowered" Codices in a row. They'll need to do a weak one as a "cool down".
So, time for a new Chaos 'Dex then, ay?
I think the Harlequin book was crappy enough to constitute 5 OP books tbh.
Always exciting to see new DA stuff. Hope we get more than the chaplain though.
I wouldn't say the Harlequin book was crappy, but it could have been so much more. The fact that I can effectively play a Harlequin army is a win in itself.
But seriously, I hope the new codex is an improvement over the previous one for the sake of DA players everywhere.
Though the Chaos player within me would be sad to see you leave...
"Dark angels are known for their discipline (even guilliman respects says that) need proof? look at the overwatch fire of a battle demi-company!"
So Dark Angels are getting improved overwatch (possibly a formation bonus?).
Wonder whether it'll get as much hate as Supporting Fire for the Tau.
my guess is Overwatch at BS 2 for the formation.
That was my thinking but then I remembered the whole "free transports and/or upgrades" stuff that they've also been coming out with and wondered whether it may be overwatch at full BS.
This was posted by TemperMaximus on Warseer an hour ago:
"[...] Also he had the following comments:
-Dark angels get their own discipline.
-the first power is a curse that affects all enemy units within 9" of the psyker. affected units have to roll 3d6 on morale, fear and pinning tests.
I expect the improved overwatch will be the specific demi-company formation, to which I say: who cares? Tac marines will suddenly become better against hormagaunts, ork boyz, and harlequins.
Improved overwatch is awesome on tau because they have withering firepower and are terrible at assault. Improved overwatch on marines really isn't that great, at least from where I'm standing.
Warhams-77 wrote: This was posted by TemperMaximus on Warseer an hour ago:
"[...] Also he had the following comments:
-Dark angels get their own discipline.
-the first power is a curse that affects all enemy units within 9" of the psyker. affected units have to roll 3d6 on morale, fear and pinning tests.
"Dark angels are known for their discipline (even guilliman respects says that) need proof? look at the overwatch fire of a battle demi-company!"
So Dark Angels are getting improved overwatch (possibly a formation bonus?).
Wonder whether it'll get as much hate as Supporting Fire for the Tau.
my guess is Overwatch at BS 2 for the formation.
That was my thinking but then I remembered the whole "free transports and/or upgrades" stuff that they've also been coming out with and wondered whether it may be overwatch at full BS.
Overwatch at BS10!
Warhams-77 wrote:This was posted by TemperMaximus on Warseer an hour ago:
"[...] Also he had the following comments:
-Dark angels get their own discipline.
-the first power is a curse that affects all enemy units within 9" of the psyker. affected units have to roll 3d6 on morale, fear and pinning tests.
The suspense is killing me! Will i finally be able to play Dark ANgels? I have bought a couple of miniatures incl dark vengeance over the past year but never comitted due to crappy codex! But this soon after the release of SM there might just be hope! If only the costs would be the same as normal marines it would be a win already!
via Steve the Warboss
-Dark Angels vs. CSM in July
-Space Marines vs. Tau in October
Details on Eldar, Tzeentch & Dark Angels
“Next 3 releases are still Eldar, DA, Tzeentch.
I’ve now heard the DATac. Squad isn’t coming with this release. (Which in no way means the release list has changed, the release dates do NOT change. If isn’t coming it simply isn’t coming.)
The Chaplain I heard about is also apparently going to be released separately rather than in a box set as I thought originally.
It was specifically titled a “Interrogator Chaplain” rather than just DA Chaplain ala the Blood Angel Libarian.
So as far as I know the release will just be a new Chaplain and Codex.
Release date May.”
and this:
“I heard it was a full new dex with a spotlight on the 5 major Craftworlds and some formations to represent some of their battle tactics. Whether the Craftworlds themselves will get anymore rules than that I don’t know.I heard new DA dex originally, but since this new tidbit I’m not 100%. I’m going to keep digging for new info.”
I am kinda hoping that the Interrogator Chaplain will have a head without the hood. I can get over that though, I want to get one regardless. With a little work (namely filing off some of the DA stuff), and possibly changing out that Power Fist (not sure on that), he will make a fine Crimson Fist. Though my distinct lack of Fists in my Crimson Fists (Pedro is the only one in my entire army, in fact), I might actually keep the fist. I need a chaplain for a Demi-Company if I am to eventually make a Battle Company.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I am kinda hoping that the Interrogator Chaplain will have a head without the hood. I can get over that though, I want to get one regardless. With a little work (namely filing off some of the DA stuff), and possibly changing out that Power Fist (not sure on that), he will make a fine Crimson Fist. Though my distinct lack of Fists in my Crimson Fists (Pedro is the only one in my entire army, in fact), I might actually keep the fist. I need a chaplain for a Demi-Company if I am to eventually make a Battle Company.
Quite possibly the coolest thing to come out of the C:SM is that players are talking about putting together Companies and Demi-Companies. I think the last time I thought of fielding anything remotely resembling a Demi-company was in Rogue Trader, when mostly all I could get was infantry... LOL. Back then, they did not even have companies laid out, but I'm pretty sure I had at least 3 tactical 1 assault 1 devastator and some kind of character every game
casvalremdeikun wrote: I am kinda hoping that the Interrogator Chaplain will have a head without the hood. I can get over that though, I want to get one regardless. With a little work (namely filing off some of the DA stuff), and possibly changing out that Power Fist (not sure on that), he will make a fine Crimson Fist. Though my distinct lack of Fists in my Crimson Fists (Pedro is the only one in my entire army, in fact), I might actually keep the fist. I need a chaplain for a Demi-Company if I am to eventually make a Battle Company.
Quite possibly the coolest thing to come out of the C:SM is that players are talking about putting together Companies and Demi-Companies. I think the last time I thought of fielding anything remotely resembling a Demi-company was in Rogue Trader, when mostly all I could get was infantry... LOL. Back then, they did not even have companies laid out, but I'm pretty sure I had at least 3 tactical 1 assault 1 devastator and some kind of character every game
I can't really justify a Battle Company, as it would require me to get lots more marines and transports. But you are right, the fact we might be seeing Tactical Squads on the field again as more than just a tax (well, they are a tax, but they come with free Razorbacks, so it pays off) is pretty cool. I have a Chaplain, but this one is a ton cooler. A little work, a nice Bolt Pistol arm, and a Sternguard Shoulder pad will make for a very nice Crimson Fist Chaplain. The hooded robes might grow on me too.
Pretty much everything looks like you would expect. The Deathwing Redemption Force has the makings of an army in and of itself. Hopefully a Ravenwing variation exists.
Hopefully there are some Deathwing Formations akin to the Ravenwing Formations and a Ravenwing Formation akin to the Deathwing Formation. I was kinda hoping the Deathwing and Ravenwing would get Strike Forces all to themselves, though. Still. with the Deathwing Formation you can basically create an all Deathwing army by using 1-2 of that Formation, using a Int-Chap or Librarian for the other one. Too bad that would be expensive as hell.
No BK's in the Decurion seems strange... ruleswise.
Fluffwise, according to the novels, it fits perfectly -
Sammael and his Knights with the Ravenwing find the target, then retreat. Afterwards you send in the rest of the chapter with some Ravenwing only to function as Teleport Homers to bring in the Hammer.
The 3rd-10th company provide support and fight the "chaff", while the Deathwing secure the primary objective.
So I expect this Lion's Blade to represent the force sent after the *cough* target *cough* has been located.
This doesn't seem to be the worst around, but not QUITE flexible enough for my likes, particularly I COULD possibly work with that Deathwing setup, but not enough Venerable Dreadnought slots.
MongooseMatt posted this a few pages ago - so the lack of Ravenwing Black Knights and other units is evidence that there are indeed more 'Detachments/Decurions' in the book than in the WD piccie
I am not really a rumour source, but this has just come through from the GW sales team;
A 160-page full colour hardback codex. The most comprehensive Dark Angels codex ever, which includes three new Dark Angels Detachments, 6 formations of and Tactical Objectives, plus Warlord Traits and Chapter Relics. This new codex gives the player the opportunity to build their own Deathwing and Ravenwing formations, from the extensive range of available miniatures.
It is a £35 Codex. Looks like Dark Angels are getting the royal treatment (at last)!
Well I still think there will be more in the actual Codex. This is basically a repeat of the Space Marine Codex and symbolizes the Greenwing pretty well. I kinda miss Centurions and the vanilla flyers. Seems the vanilla units do not get added to the Codex. I still hope though that they add the Land Speeder Storm as a choice. Really like the new Scouts in that speeder.
Lack of RW Knights and Command on the other hand kinda hints at a separate Formation or Strike Force. Maybe we are lucky and get 2 or 3 Strike Forces in the Codex. And another important question ... Will there be a full Company with the free Transports rule ? In this case though I don't see the necessaty for a separate Codex. Could just have gone in with Space Marines really.
Not Long now and we will see what goodness awaits us .
Not a Dark Angels player. Don't expect to know the random names of your personal vehicles. It was never sold or labelled as Sableclaw either.
Love when Dark Angels players get uppity like that. Almost like Sisters players.?
If you're not a Dark Angels player and self-aware of not knowing all names from the Codex, why did you assume it must be a new Special Character?
Because it's listed as a seperate entry - previously Sammy's Land Speeder was an upgrade option for him. So stating that X can be taken in place of Y seems to imply that X (in this case Sableclaw) is oddly listed as its own entry otherwise that's a very redundant footnote to stick on the formation.
You'll note that the SM formation doesn't state that Moondrakkan can be taken in place of Kor'sarro Khan, so it's a very odd thing to see indeed.
1 ravenwing squad could be knights, the current unit as is.
The attack bike sqaud is what it says on the tin, I'm hoping like hh we get to have up to 5 in a unit, as that would be boss
not inspired with some of the options so far (such as the hammer of Caliban) but it is only a snippet and e haven't seen the rules yet. The Deathwing one is as expected (with bonus of not having to take Belial) and will get some use for sure. The only thing we need to see is the little formation bonuses, that could change everything.
Yes, *Edit: It says, Codex: DA allows you to use your collection to build up a Lion's Blade Strike Force: based on a DA Demi-Company and one or more Aux choices (I guess Aux is the correct translation). *
Hmh. I would have liked another Core formation, personally, as that just looks too similar to the Necron book...just with the ability to field a single Command per Core(compared to the other books like this, that's rough.)
However...I can totally field a decent force from what I've got sitting around!
Lion's Blade strikeforce is obviously the DA equivalent of the Gladius strike force. However, as hinted before, it may not be the only "Decurion" type detachment we get. This codex is close to the size of the SM codex (which is dealing with many different chapters) and so looks to be really getting the Royal Treatment. There could be a pure Ravenwing or Deathwing decurion since these are almost armies themselves.
Warhams-77 wrote: MongooseMatt posted this a few pages ago - so the lack of Ravenwing Black Knights and other units is evidence that there are indeed more 'Detachments/Decurions' in the book than in the WD piccie
You ninja'd me
This all seems logical - the Greenwing detachment with RW and DW support, and then two more detachments to focus on DW and RW themselves.
Gentlemen, I think we Dark Angels, after many, many years, are officially sorted
Warhams-77 wrote: WD pics - by www.gamestrust.de (in german, sorry guys)
Spoiler:
Not much new here, the Psychic power was leaked already last night
Seeds of Fear
Warp Charges 1
The Librarian creeps into the minds of his enemies . Subtly distorted and he reinforces their fears. First he causes discomfort , then it is paranoia , and finally pure horror.
The translation of the actual gameplay text is wonky; but it's the 9 inch curse for leadership based tests on 3D6.
Interromancy most likely. The Dark Angels Libarius Conclave formation from last year has the special rule of "Focused Interromancy" for Ezekiel casting Mind Worm.
Sad. I love the Limited Edition and DA are my Loyalist Marines and my first real 40k army almost 20 years ago now but I can't drop $165 based on book life cycles right now. 2 years is acceptable. Less than that really isn't
Still super excited for the book in general though. DA finally aren't the Redheaded step children! (The actual red marines are )
We really only have two books that "justify" the whole less than two years book cycle discussion.
Other than that, we just can't be sure if it was something where they wanted to radically shift a flagship book(Space Marines) or revamp something that was a surprise hit(Knights).
All the parts for Sableclaw are in the old Ravenwing upgrade sprue(s) which are still available (e.g. in the old Biker Box and the new Dark Angels Battle Force)
Warhams-77 wrote: MongooseMatt posted this a few pages ago - so the lack of Ravenwing Black Knights and other units is evidence that there are indeed more 'Detachments/Decurions' in the book than in the WD piccie
You ninja'd me
This all seems logical - the Greenwing detachment with RW and DW support, and then two more detachments to focus on DW and RW themselves.
Gentlemen, I think we Dark Angels, after many, many years, are officially sorted
That's been pretty standard now with these style of formations/detachments. The vanilla version requires 3 flyers, the Necron version does as well if I recall. Not sure about the Eldar version.
From my bad translating skills, the main Tactical Objective card says that if it is a Dark Angels specific card you get to keep it secret, otherwise reveal it as normal.
I'm not sure on the actual Tactical Objective. Looks like if you get it you can keep it up to three turns, netting you 1, 2, or D3+3 victory points. Not sure what you have to do to get the points, maybe pass a leadership test?
That's been pretty standard now with these style of formations/detachments. The vanilla version requires 3 flyers, the Necron version does as well if I recall. Not sure about the Eldar version.
Necron is 2-4 Doom Scythes, but I don't know how the points price matches up.
I'm interested in DA. They were the first Imperial army I ever considered buying, though I didn't end up going with them. The LE looks pretty solid, I like the style much more than the standard Codex.
I hope to see the Librarius Conclave show up and boosted to the level of the SM one. If Tigirius can harness on a 2+, surely Ezekiel can as well.
Whumbachumba wrote: From my bad translating skills, the main Tactical Objective card says that if it is a Dark Angels specific card you get to keep it secret, otherwise reveal it as normal.
I'm not sure on the actual Tactical Objective. Looks like if you get it you can keep it up to three turns, netting you 1, 2, or D3+3 victory points. Not sure what you have to do to get the points, maybe pass a leadership test?
Yes, a LD test. You secretly decide how many player turns you want to stay at that objective. And you will fail that goal (and drop the mission card) if ANY friendly unit fails a Morale check before this time has passed. I guess you should write down how many turns on a piece of paper but the card is vague on that.
Whumbachumba wrote: From my bad translating skills, the main Tactical Objective card says that if it is a Dark Angels specific card you get to keep it secret, otherwise reveal it as normal.
I'm not sure on the actual Tactical Objective. Looks like if you get it you can keep it up to three turns, netting you 1, 2, or D3+3 victory points. Not sure what you have to do to get the points, maybe pass a leadership test?
Yes, a LD test. You secretly decide how many player turns you want to stay at that objective. And you will fail that goal (and drop the mission card) if ANY friendly unit fails a Morale check before this time has passed. I guess you should write down how many turns on a piece of paper but the card is vague on that.
Thanks Warhams! I really should have paid more attention in German class. Google translate only gets you so far.
DakkaDakka is a good training for my (lack of) english skills. I would like to translate more of the leaks but I'm only at the PC from time to time.
@MongooseMatt
Beastrouille - Bolter & Chainsword
There is a leak from the french WD saying so.
The detachements are called Deathwing Strike Force and Ravenwing Strike Force.
Here is the image for those who read french:
For those who do not read french here is a quick translation:
second paragraph:
"Of course this is not the only way (i.e. the Lion's blade) to assemble a DA army. Instead of a DA semi-company why not use other detachements. A DW Strike Force would make a visually impressive army with all these bone-white armours [...]. Thanks to this detachment, itis possible to field a force constutited only of DA 1st company and lead by Belial or why not the new Terminator Librarian."
Third paragraph:
"The other detachement of the codex is the RW Strike Force including units from the second company only [...]"
EDIT: I forgot to credit the one who posted that in the first place. So thanks Master Avoghai (who I am sure you know already) to have posted that on the french DA forum
Anyone wondering why one of those DW terminators in the DW Redemption force has a green helmet? I don't think it's anything to do with being a sergeant. Veteran status maybe?? For reference- DV squad with the Mace and SS guy out of coherency.
angelofvengeance wrote: Anyone wondering why one of those DW terminators in the DW Redemption force has a green helmet? I don't think it's anything to do with being a sergeant. Veteran status maybe?? For reference- DV squad with the Mace and SS guy out of coherency.
Uh...it's a studio member's personal army. Adam Troke iirc.
So he's got some tweaks in terms of colour scheme. Don't take it as much. Those aren't the 'official' studio Dark Angels. Those are a staffer's personal army.
The detachements are called Deathwing Strike Force and Ravenwing Strike Force.
Here is the image for those who read french:
For those who do not read french here is a quick translation:
second paragraph:
"Of course this is not the only way (i.e. the Lion's blade) to assemble a DA army. Instead of a DA semi-company why not use other detachements. A DW Strike Force would make a visually impressive army with all these bone-white armours [...]. Thanks to this detachment, itis possible to field a force constutited only of DA 1st company and lead by Belial or why not the new Terminator Librarian."
Third paragraph:
"The other detachement of the codex is the RW Strike Force including units from the second company only [...]"
EDIT: I forgot to credit the one who posted that in the first place. So thanks Master Avoghai (who I am sure you know already) to have posted that on the french DA forum
I have to be honest: I play Dark Angels, but green marines are my least favorite part. All I care about is if a pure Deathwing or Ravenwing army is viable. Not having to auto-take Belial and Sammael is a good start, but seeing the formation bonuses will be the deciding factor for me.
angelofvengeance wrote: Anyone wondering why one of those DW terminators in the DW Redemption force has a green helmet? I don't think it's anything to do with being a sergeant. Veteran status maybe?? For reference- DV squad with the Mace and SS guy out of coherency.
Uh...it's a studio member's personal army. Adam Troke iirc.
So he's got some tweaks in terms of colour scheme. Don't take it as much. Those aren't the 'official' studio Dark Angels. Those are a staffer's personal army.
Which explains the OOP and very nostalgic scout models...
The detachements are called Deathwing Strike Force and Ravenwing Strike Force.
Here is the image for those who read french:
For those who do not read french here is a quick translation:
second paragraph:
"Of course this is not the only way (i.e. the Lion's blade) to assemble a DA army. Instead of a DA semi-company why not use other detachements. A DW Strike Force would make a visually impressive army with all these bone-white armours [...]. Thanks to this detachment, itis possible to field a force constutited only of DA 1st company and lead by Belial or why not the new Terminator Librarian."
Third paragraph:
"The other detachement of the codex is the RW Strike Force including units from the second company only [...]"
EDIT: I forgot to credit the one who posted that in the first place. So thanks Master Avoghai (who I am sure you know already) to have posted that on the french DA forum
I have to be honest: I play Dark Angels, but green marines are my least favorite part. All I care about is if a pure Deathwing or Ravenwing army is viable. Not having to auto-take Belial and Sammael is a good start, but seeing the formation bonuses will be the deciding factor for me.
Oh heck yes. I don't care how sub optimal it would be, I'd love to make a pure (or at least mostly) Deathwing army. If it's any good, that alone would get me to start collecting.
130 terminators, 30 oldnators and 100 new, 40 ravenwing, 20 black knights, make it work gw and I'll get the other 40 bikes I need!
I'm really chuffed were getting our psychic powers back, dark angels and dark eldar are the 2 armies that should mess with people leadership the most, break their wills, that's what these armies should be like, sadly deldar have been screwed up, dark angels look like they are getting back on track.
Thairne wrote:You're aware thats a UNIT of dreads, so 1-3 ?
I was kinda thinking that might be the case, but wasn't sure.
In any case, not sure that would help much since I have two radically different setups planned for my Dreads.
Do people expect the Tac requirement for the DA Demi-Company to be 5 man combat squads?
As my Angels of Absolution force currently stands this is somewhat more achievable.
I think as it stands a Greenwing and a Ravenwing are my best "detachment" options for an easy to field army, and that's my over-all aim for AoS. Small force, take out of the box and play.
I'll take other questions about it over to other parts of Dakka.
But are the Plastic Company veterans seen in the German GW conversions or a new box set?
The release schedule doesn't point to there being one, so it looks like you need to buy Company Veterans and new Dev Squad to achieve the new Grav wielding guys.
I know robbed metal DA still roam Ebay at affordable enough prices, but plastic options seem more desirable for Tacs and Devs.
They're conversions utilizing this boxed set and parts from the basic Tactical and Devastator Squads, which if you aren't planning on arming them with Grav weaponry would leave you with extras.
Formosa wrote: 3 with twin lascannon and missile might be fun too, 3 with assault cannon, 3 plasma cannons too, all for fairly cheap.
Magnetize?
Nah veberable dreads, they have slot in and out weapons, it's like buying the rhino over the razorback, just get the veberable dread kit, looks better and is a much better kit.
Formosa wrote: 3 with twin lascannon and missile might be fun too, 3 with assault cannon, 3 plasma cannons too, all for fairly cheap.
Magnetize?
Nah veberable dreads, they have slot in and out weapons, it's like buying the rhino over the razorback, just get the veberable dread kit, looks better and is a much better kit.
Formosa wrote:3 with twin lascannon and missile might be fun too, 3 with assault cannon, 3 plasma cannons too, all for fairly cheap.
Would be, though that would be AT LEAST 4 more kits for me... I've got two bodies with a Lascannon, Plasma Cannon, Assault Cannon and two Flamer-Fists. The Furioso kit I converted has a Frag Launcher I might be able to use as a Multi-Melta and I'm desperately looking for a Missile Launcher.
Jambles wrote:Magnetize?
No need, you can slide arms on and off Dreads and weapons in and out of weapon-arms with no problems.
If Dark Angels are getting this kind of treatment, maybe there's the barest glimmer that Chaos Marines not also get something half-way decent this time around? (and then comes the whole hope being the first step to you-know-where obviously...)
^Maybe the Chaos Space Marines won't, but if the X Daemonkin books are good, that might help!
...At least if you don't want to play Chaos Undivided armies.
CrashGordon94 wrote: ^Maybe the Chaos Space Marines won't, but if the X Daemonkin books are good, that might help!
...At least if you don't want to play Chaos Undivided armies.
...so much for the Black Legion, I guess they're really not that important story wise anyways!
CrashGordon94 wrote: ^Maybe the Chaos Space Marines won't, but if the X Daemonkin books are good, that might help!
...At least if you don't want to play Chaos Undivided armies.
As long as the other daemonkin books are done better than the Khorne one maybe. Basically just took the Khorne units out of Daemons and Chaos Marines and smashed them together into one book. Take out Daemonic instability and throw in the Blood Tithe table and done. There. Just wrote the entire codex in thirty seconds.
Kanluwen wrote: They're conversions utilizing this boxed set and parts from the basic Tactical and Devastator Squads, which if you aren't planning on arming them with Grav weaponry would leave you with extras.
That's what I figured. Considering the Demi-company requires 0-1 company veterans, it'd be a good buy with a Dev squad when I already require the new dev for weapon upgrade and swaps across my Dark Angel army and Vanilla home-brew chapter.
Still not enough robes, wings and shoulder-pads to go around with the current model range. The DVTac squad are very limited. The only model with customisability of any note is the Heavy plasma guy. I used mine for a champion unit, and subbed in a Missile Marine I had spare.
So many vanilla units now part of the codex and useful for building the formations are now in the webstore listing, including both command squad boxes, but no Tac's.
So this is either an oversight, or they're holding back on a kit that's on ice, but not in the release pipeline just yet.
Devastators aren't listed yet in there either; so it's just something that won't "go loud" until the actual release comes up this weekend most likely.
Don't be surprised at a big bundle army including Tacticals and Devastators...and it being immediately out of stock in some places, like Devastators are.
I'm going to go ahead an be that guy for everybody.
So going off what we know so far when it comes to formations will RW be an army anymore with regards to tournament play? Typically from what I've heard, most tournaments allow the formation of formations but do not let you duplicate the auxiliary formation elements. Which means at most (as of right now) it only allows you a single squad of RW bikers, some landspeeders and some flyers. We have no knowledge, that I'm aware of, if Sammael allows RW as troops still with regards to CADs. So with RWBKs suspiciously absent along with a large RW oriented formation like the DW are currently shown to have, RW seem to be getting the short end of the stick.
Now I feel like there are many more formations yet to be revealed. Yet as an RW player and a lonnnnnng time DA player in general (meaning used to disappointment) I think we may have to prepare for the worst and hope for the best. I've got my fingers crossed the GW with give me a reason to comeback to their unholy light lol.
Kanluwen wrote: Devastators aren't listed yet in there either; so it's just something that won't "go loud" until the actual release comes up this weekend most likely.
Don't be surprised at a big bundle army including Tacticals and Devastators...and it being immediately out of stock in some places, like Devastators are.
I suppose you're right, a web bundle of limit supply seem's like it could happen.
Certainly for the Irish store the new Librarian is out of stock already. Very popular.
A discount hobby store only a few hundred meters from the only GW left in the Republic also had the DA box for €75 on Tuesday. A fiver off is not to be sniffed at, especially now that I know the Ravenwing upgrade sprue is also in the box.
Experiment 626 wrote:...so much for the Black Legion, I guess they're really not that important story wise anyways!
Hey, hardly the most fluff-screwing thing GW's ever done!
Ignatius wrote:As long as the other daemonkin books are done better than the Khorne one maybe. Basically just took the Khorne units out of Daemons and Chaos Marines and smashed them together into one book. Take out Daemonic instability and throw in the Blood Tithe table and done. There. Just wrote the entire codex in thirty seconds.
Hence IF the X Daemonkin books are good. If they're bad you're probably screwed because I'm guessing that between the X Daemonkin books taking up the "update space" for Chaos and having "Higher-priority" (In GW's mind) Codexes to update (such as Space Wolves and Blood Angels), it's likely gonna be a while before they update Codex: Chaos Space Marines again. Maybe even after they release 8th edition 40k.
I am still very doubtful of any more Daemonkin books....
who would bother with a Chaos Daemons army anymore?
As much a s I would love for them to release a Chaos Khorne Daemonkin, Slaanesh Daemonkin, Nurgle Daemonkin, Tzeentch daemonkin, Chaos Space Marines, Renegade Marines, Renegade and and Heretics, Chaos Legions, and Chaos Daemon books.... we all know GW doesent care about selling Chaos.
Those who want an Undivided Daemon army, and they'll be miserable about GW deciding to faction it off like this because a new Daemons Codex is gonna be even further away for most of the same reasons with a "Daemons don't sell as well as CSM" cherry on top.
At the very least you could probably build one with all the books and 4 CADs, but I would hardly blame someone if buying 4 Codexes to make a stupidly huge army isn't an appealing prospect to them. At the very least they'd all be Battle Brother and they could throw in loads of CSM and Cultists as they pleased, but that's cold comforts for them I could imagine.
If all else fails there's Unbound, but I don't blame them if that's not appealing either. I know I personally would feel bad about making an Unbound army because of its reputation for being the cheaters' way to build armies, even if I'd never judge someone that way myself (possibly even if they were doing it).
this isn't a daemonkin thread, so let's not get derailed. Unless you want to talk about The Fallen....then please keep typing, and ignore the cars pulling up outside your home.
Going back OT, I'm really curious as to what the general DW/RW decurions will allow as far as add on units.
bullyboy wrote: this isn't a daemonkin thread, so let's not get derailed. Unless you want to talk about The Fallen....then please keep typing, and ignore the cars pulling up outside your home.
Going back OT, I'm really curious as to what the general DW/RW decurions will allow as far as add on units.
Surely you mean the bikes
I've always imagined Ravenwing (and its' successor analogues) as a Sons of Anarchy style outlaw biker gang within the Unforgiven themselves, where the rest of the chapter sees them as showoffs and grandstanders.
Just like the Sons there's an inner circle of the President (Sam..raven?) and his VP (The RW Chaplain/Librarian) and his men at arms/ men of mayhem (Black Knights) who keep secrets from the rest of the club and pursue their own agenda and get up to all sorts of heinous, shady stuff. Lower down on the rungs you have the normal membership (Ravenwing Bikers) and the prospects (scouts).
ADrunknPirate wrote: "Interromancy". Really GW? Couldn't come up with a better name?
Darkomancy?
Unforgivomancy?
Ambigumancy?
Reminds me of a larp I played years ago. Everything was a -mancy.
Don't be ridiculous. Larps are much more organized and balanced than 7th edition 40k yet still forge better narratives. You should feel bad for comparing them.
ADrunknPirate wrote: "Interromancy". Really GW? Couldn't come up with a better name?
Darkomancy?
Unforgivomancy?
Ambigumancy?
Reminds me of a larp I played years ago. Everything was a -mancy.
Don't be ridiculous. Larps are much more organized and balanced than 7th edition 40k yet still forge better narratives. You should feel bad for comparing them.
You know, there's a lot of similarities between the one I'm thinking of and GW now that you mention it.
At least with the way things are shaping up, the owner of my college town's FLGS for 40k will actually start playing now that he no longer has "the worst army in the game".
Inb4 Dark Angels are better than vanilla marines. Though it would be funny to see Unforgiven Tacs in blue, or White Scars proxied as Ravenwing.
Also, the new formations seem to be a great start to the codex. But it is a bit worrying to see no mention of Black Knights. Maybe they're now an upgrade to the standard Ravenwing/Ravenwing Command?
I think we just saw what the basic "green wing" detachment consisted of.
I think maybe the more specialized troopers like the terminator knights or the black knights might be limited to their specific detachment styles.
If I had to guess anyway.
Also outside of Eldar(and really that is two or three things) I have been very happy with all of the books they have been putting out recently. Even the formations people freak out about once you actually look at the points and what they can do its not auto take and really lends to a diversity of lists that we can expect to see on the table. I think that says a lot, and looks good for the game in general.
I mean if Dark Angels are getting three, imagine what Chaos will look like if they dont feth it up.....
pwntallica wrote: I also highly doubt they dropped the black knights as they are in the new battle force box
Not to mention they are fleshed-out tremendously in the latest Dark Angels trilogy from Black Library... And they are in the bottom of that picture at the top of page 17.
There is a page in the white dwarf mentioning two other detachments called the Deathwing Strike Force and Ravenwing Strike Force. So expect three different core detachments for the Dark Angels probably similar to what the Eldar got in their warhost.
There is an image, I think it's on page 34 of the rumor section on bolter and chainsword that mentions it. It is from a french copy of the white dwarf but someone was kind enough to translate.
TheNewBlood wrote:Inb4 Dark Angels are better than vanilla marines. Though it would be funny to see Unforgiven Tacs in blue, or White Scars proxied as Ravenwing.
Handily enough, there's a successor with the right color scheme for that!
Jambles wrote: Aww yeah, I'ma be "unsheathing the lion's blade" tonight if you know what I'm sayin, amirite guys? Yeah, you know what I'm sayin.
.
Exalted.
Before you exalt that, think about the implications of the Rock being the local gay pub near GWHQ when 2nd ed was being written and Lionel Johnson being a repressed homosexual poet...
Jambles wrote: Aww yeah, I'ma be "unsheathing the lion's blade" tonight if you know what I'm sayin, amirite guys? Yeah, you know what I'm sayin.
.
Exalted.
Before you exalt that, think about the implications of the Rock being the local gay pub near GWHQ when 2nd ed was being written and Lionel Johnson being a repressed homosexual poet...
Jambles wrote: Aww yeah, I'ma be "unsheathing the lion's blade" tonight if you know what I'm sayin, amirite guys? Yeah, you know what I'm sayin.
.
Exalted.
Before you exalt that, think about the implications of the Rock being the local gay pub near GWHQ when 2nd ed was being written and Lionel Johnson being a repressed homosexual poet...
OMG you just single-handedly ruined the DA and their primarch in my eyes! I don't think I can take them seriously from this point onwards. Why!? Sweet Ignorance... Why?!
Jambles wrote: Aww yeah, I'ma be "unsheathing the lion's blade" tonight if you know what I'm sayin, amirite guys? Yeah, you know what I'm sayin.
.
Exalted.
Before you exalt that, think about the implications of the Rock being the local gay pub near GWHQ when 2nd ed was being written and Lionel Johnson being a repressed homosexual poet...
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Lionel Johnson also wrote a poem called The Dark Angel.
BTW, the comment I made earlier wasn't meant to be homophobic, the fact the word rhymes with -mancy (autocorrect tried to change mancy to that word too) was kinda funny to me, especially considering the origins of the Dark Angels naming.
Nothing wrong with it, I'm just asking him to reconsider the implications because the Lion's blade may not be going where he thinks it is.
My personal theory is that Luther wasn't jealous of the lion. The Lion was in love with Luther, and left Luther behind so he wouldn't be endangered in the Heresy campaign. His love was unrequited, however, and the rumour spread amongst the terran Dark Angels still stationed on Caliban. When he returned and found this out in his rage he ordered Caliban and the Terran Dark Angels destroyed in a jealous rage and to keep his secret.
This explains all the homoerotic tension in the uh, torture dungeons manned by Space Marine Priests. Okay, I'll stop now.
So anyway (sorry about that), I wonder if Greenwing will be worth taking. I am more excited about this book than either of my own armies'. DA have been low tier for too long.
casvalremdeikun wrote:So anyway (sorry about that), I wonder if Greenwing will be worth taking. I am more excited about this book than either of my own armies'. DA have been low tier for too long.
ABSOLUTELY!
The theme of this book seems to be making Greenwing viable and we've already seen them getting their version of the Battle Company whatchamajig, so one could only imagine what sort of new tricks Greenwing will be able to pull...
I still don't want it though, I want a DeathRaven combo!
I honestly would rather see a straight dedication to only RW/DW with a blurb about a chapter tactics and access to DA artifacts for the green boyz and a use CSM.
Maybe its because since 4th edition I've used CSM for my green DA. I see no reason to reprint CSM and change the names and omit a bunch of stuff that DA would have as much access to as every other chapter. Then just plob some stuff about over costed bikes and terminators (because its a safe bet that will likely happen).
I wonder if DW/RW will actually be made interesting. I wonder if WS will eventually get a formation that will erode away any reason to play RW. I wonder if the only reason the DA codex will be playable is because we will end up buying a color changed CSM.
Hopefully they won't repeat the mistake of making DA the anti-C:SMs.
BrotherGecko wrote: I honestly would rather see a straight dedication to only RW/DW with a blurb about a chapter tactics and access to DA artifacts for the green boyz and a use CSM.
Maybe its because since 4th edition I've used CSM for my green DA. I see no reason to reprint CSM and change the names and omit a bunch of stuff that DA would have as much access to as every other chapter. Then just plob some stuff about over costed bikes and terminators (because its a safe bet that will likely happen).
I wonder if DW/RW will actually be made interesting. I wonder if WS will eventually get a formation that will erode away any reason to play RW. I wonder if the only reason the DA codex will be playable is because we will end up buying a color changed CSM.
Hopefully they won't repeat the mistake of making DA the anti-C:SMs.
Wait, so you're the guy we've been hunting all this while?
I'm happy dark angels being anti chaos marine, I'd infact rake it a step further and make them anti chaos deamons too, walking the line between damnation and salvation, if the leadership thing works on deamons for instability tests then I'd be happy with just that, with the pandorax books and audio book we can see they know plenty on how to fight and beat chaos as a whole, not just the marine element.
CrashGordon94 wrote: ^I had one with an Assault Cannon and Flamer-Fist, and another with a Lascannon and Missile Launcher, don't really think they'd like to share a squad.
That was exactly my setup too before C:SM came out, but now that we can take units I bought another TLLC and ML so I can have 2x TLLC and ML Dreads sitting in the back taking out heavy targets.
Formosa wrote: I'm happy dark angels being anti chaos marine, I'd infact rake it a step further and make them anti chaos deamons too, walking the line between damnation and salvation, if the leadership thing works on deamons for instability tests then I'd be happy with just that, with the pandorax books and audio book we can see they know plenty on how to fight and beat chaos as a whole, not just the marine element.
Sure, the same way any Marine chapter can take on Chaos Daemons.
The schtick, if you read the codex, for Dark Angels is that they are hunting CSM. In particular, fallen DA. That's literally their entire thing and pretty much the backstory for all their lore. It's why Interrogator-Chaplains are even a thing.
TheNewBlood wrote:Inb4 Dark Angels are better than vanilla marines. Though it would be funny to see Unforgiven Tacs in blue, or White Scars proxied as Ravenwing.
Handily enough, there's a successor with the right color scheme for that!
Thats bone, not white. Wouldn't work for white scars :p
I've actually ran my terminators as Deathwing since the last codex (which I really like other than them being over costed) came out with surprisingly good results. With the points drop to vanilla terms and buff to scouts I am really curious how DW turn out because it will determine which codex I use.
35pt deathwing terminators would be awsome, but gw will price them at 38 because of the plethora of situational rules they have, fearless is meh, deathwing assault is excellent and probably worth the 35pts mark anyway, prefered enemy chaos space marines is also somewhat meh due to being very situational, add 10pts for th/ss and we're back to the overcosted nonsense of the last book, now dw knights are 46/7 points, drop them to 40 and we're golden as the one shot smite is meh, also I'm hoping the maces don't just get the smite usr, while it will make the maces ap2, 1 attack at str10 doesn't seem worth it... Maybe.
Bob liel needs to drop to 150pts of get eternal warrior, I'd happily lose that on Sammy as bob should be the beastick, we also should have access to an eternal warrior upgrade like all the codexs seem to have gotten so far, bar eldar I think?
What I'd find most interesting is if we keep the dakka banner, they allow it for storm bolters, as that coupled with the 35pt terminator would pretty much be spot on for dark angels theme of dakka over cc.
I just popped open my White Dwarf, and saw the Lion's Blade (DA Core-Cmd-Aux). Been too busy to check web rumors
They sure are stingy on librarians. Unless I'm missing something, there's only 2 ways you can get librarians:
- Command, which you can have 1/demi Company, and you may choose ONE of - Azrael, Belial, Sammael, Sableclaw, Company Master, Interrogator Chaplain, Asmodai, or Librarian or Ezekiel.
- Deathwing Redemption force, wher eyou have to take a minimum of 2-4 DW Terminator squads to get 1 Librarian (or Belial, Company Master, or Interrogator Chaplain).
So if you're not playing DWT, you are likely to have 0-1 librarian (max 2, if you want no other HQs). if you are, you're likely to have 1-2 (max 3)? O.o
Is that kinda crazy or what?
Also... where is the Ravenwing Command on the Lion's blade diagram? I must be getting blind in my old age or something. Not sure where RW Black Knights go either. And, which kit does the dreadnought from the Battle-Demi-Company (Zephon's Host) come from?
Other than DV and some odd models here and there, neither I nor any of my buddies play DA, so pardon my ignorance
Guys, if nothing else, the fact that DW Command Squads, RW Command Squads and Black Knights are not present on the Lions blade diagram indicates that there will either be additional formations or you'll still be able to take CAD.
Nothing that I've seen precludes the use of CAD.
So unless the benefits for demi company are strong (e.g. the same level of SM full battle company strength), and we don't even know what the benefits are of this formation, only the FOC drawbacks, you may not even be inclined to take them anyway.
There's also no confirmation that you can't still do FOC shifts a la Belial and Sammael/Azrael.
@TedNugent - Yeah, for sure. But the exciting thing about the new edition codex releases now are the core-auxiliary-command formations, right? Also, the substitutions are in the superscripted numbers (note that you can substitute in the command, but not in the auxiliary). I'll take a quick pic of the English copy, since all I see on previous pages are German and French.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Here's what I'm talking about --
Ok so from that pic I'm guessing a few things here.
1: ravenwing bike sqauds are now just bikes, no option to take a land speeder or attack bike.
2: attack bikes are a sqaud of their own.
3: ditto with the land speeder, that hasnt changed.
So I'm thinking with this formation you basically get what our old attack sqaud used to be, this makes sense as the black knights only hang around with the inner circle, so not being in a demi company makes sense to me.
it's limited, but I kind of like the fluffiness of it. The presence of a member of the inner circle indicates that there is a possibility of a fallen member in the enemy force.
But overall, I'm not overthrilled with the auxiliary choices for this formation, the Hammer of caliban is odd and the Deathwing redemption Force is very pricey (much like the wraith host for Eldar). But I will be holding any real judgement until I see the whole thing.
@ Formosa, if you look at the army shown in the example, it still looks like the ravenwing sqd can still take a land speeder and attack bike
Hmmm, after I mention that Dreadnought issue, just noticed that there's a unit in the Battle Demi-Company as well...
Though that had me wondering, the Deathwing bit has a Venerable Dread unit, and the main one just says "Dreadnoughts", does that mean the latter can't be made Venerable?
Just a thought guys......are we sure that all of the auxiliary choices in the WD is all that are available for the Lion's Blade force? The reason I say this is that the army example on the following pages shows a Ravenwing attack Squadron (named that too) with 6 bikes, attack bike and landspeeder.
What is missing compared to C:SM's Gladius is that it doesn't say, for example:
"1 Assault Squad, Bike Squad, Attack Bike Squad, unit of Land Speeder or Centurion Assault Squad".
Also, in the Battle Demi-Company, the Captain/Chaplain has no substitutions (for example, Vulkan or Grimaldus); instead, you can only take those in the Command slot. And I think their command options look weak (because you can only take 1 model per demi-company). And of course, there is no mention of Centurions anywhere, so I guess that's out
Of course, this might be different in the actual codex. But I mean, this isn't some random leak; it's the actual WD before the codex drop.
The Deathwing Redemption Force is nothing that couldn't be taken before in a 6th edition DWCAD, was points heavy, and not very effective.
What do you think, based on the formation USR's GW has been handing out, would make a force like this usable?
Concerning RW I just had a scary thought...could it be possible that GW would remove Black Knights as a thing, making those bikes Command Squad options only!?
Brillow80 wrote: The Deathwing Redemption Force is nothing that couldn't be taken before in a 6th edition DWCAD, was points heavy, and not very effective.
What do you think, based on the formation USR's GW has been handing out, would make a force like this usable?
Concerning RW I just had a scary thought...could it be possible that GW would remove Black Knights as a thing, making those bikes Command Squad options only!?
Brillow80 wrote: The Deathwing Redemption Force is nothing that couldn't be taken before in a 6th edition DWCAD, was points heavy, and not very effective.
What do you think, based on the formation USR's GW has been handing out, would make a force like this usable?
Concerning RW I just had a scary thought...could it be possible that GW would remove Black Knights as a thing, making those bikes Command Squad options only!?
Concerning RW I just had a scary thought...could it be possible that GW would remove Black Knights as a thing, making those bikes Command Squad options only!?
Both the Ravenwing Command Squad and the Black Knights are missing from the Lion's Blade, and the model is in the new battleforce, so no.
bullyboy wrote: it's limited, but I kind of like the fluffiness of it. The presence of a member of the inner circle indicates that there is a possibility of a fallen member in the enemy force.
It is not really that fluffy.
When you read the Vetock 6th ed DA codex, there's a part where Belial and Asmodai are talking about their pursuit of the fallen. And Belial says basically, you don't need to remind me of our mission. Because obviously Belial is a member of the Inner Circle as the First Company Master. In fact, the entire first Company is composed entirely of members of the Inner Circle.
Basically the bolter 'rines just open up with drop pods, the bikes show up and target their teleport homers for the Deathwing to take point, and not really a word is spoken of it.
Considering that all of the Ravenwing Black Knights and the entire 1st Company are members of the Inner Circle and routinely work together on operations against the Fallen, and the remainder of the Chapter is just battle chaff that isn't trusted with even knowledge of the mission, I think most of the real excursions against the Fallen would be conducted by the Deathwing with everyone else (particularly the Ravenwing) in a support role. Which is why the Deathwing-Belial FOC troop shift actually made the most sense.
It would really be a shame if they got rid of that. This lion's blade thing just looks like this was made up by some game designers as a tack-on modeled exactly on the basic C:SM demi company with some extra crap tacked on for the heck of it.
they're not going to send the entire Ravenwing/Deathwing out over every possible rumour. And besides, Black Knights are something added into the game by designers, they are not part of the original fluff and inner circle.
bullyboy wrote: they're not going to send the entire Ravenwing/Deathwing out over every possible rumour.
"Greetings, Grand Master Belial. I bring word from the clerestory dome; swift action may be required. The astropathic choir has picked up a distress call - a colony on Verdis Prime is under xenos attack and requests immediate aid. I also sense that our quarry may have landed there,' said Brother Valefor. 'Perhaps he hopes to escape us in the confusion of battle, or even make truck with the xenos."
[.]
"We can ill-afford to deviate from our mission, Brother Belial,' hissed Asmodai from behind his skull-mask. 'We must find the one once known as Brother Orias. The colonists will only serve to distract us.'"
Deathwing deployed, Fallen captured
"673.M36 Siege of Dominus Prime
The Dark Angels and Angels of Vengeance both deploy their entire 1st companies to end the five year deadlock against a rebel tyrant. Nigh on two hundred Terminators crack open the 'unassailable' fortress and massacre the traitors, save for those few who are taken to the Rock for questioning."
"104.M35 The Enemy Unmasked
The Dark Angels, following Cypher's trail, are led to believe that at least one member of the newly declared Ur-Council of Nova Terra is a Fallen Dark Angel. In a daring raid, a Ravenwing strike force lands upon Nova Terra but fails to secure any prisoners."
"After picking up the trail of Brother Solas, the entire Ravenwing deploys en masse [...]"
"The Ravenwing follow a trail that leads all the way to the Imperial Governor of Zambeque [...]"
"There is no underestimating the hard-hitting shock value the Deathwing and Ravenwing Companies bring to battle. While each is trained to perform a specific role - to seek out and destroy the Fallen - the formations have proven integral to all the chapter's missions, regardless of foe. Whether deploying for a surgical, rapid strike or delivering a hammerblow assault, most Dark Angels forces include elements from both the Ravenwing and Deathwing." Here's some support for the demi company as it exists in the Lion's Blade.
"Although it is only known by the company's highest ranked officers - the Company Master and his Black Knight veteran squads - the Ravenwing's primary role is to hunt down and capture the Fallen. They are the relentless black-clad huntsmen that ride ahead of the rest of the Dark Angels, cutting out those who are targeted for capture."
"In the Veiled Region, the Dark Angels finally corner Hrakon, who takes refuge on a piratical port world. Seeking to ensure that none escape, the Dark Angels blockade the planet and unleash the entire Deathwing. Deploying in sequential teleportations, the Terminators prosecute an epic slaughter until only a single foe is left alive - Obidiah Hrakon - once a standard bearer for the Dark Angels Legion. Refusing to give up, Obidiah is subdued after a duel with the Master of the Deathwing and is transported back to the Rock."
bullyboy wrote: they're not going to send the entire Ravenwing/Deathwing out over every possible rumour.
"Greetings, Grand Master Belial. I bring word from the clerestory dome; swift action may be required. The astropathic choir has picked up a distress call - a colony on Verdis Prime is under xenos attack and requests immediate aid. I also sense that our quarry may have landed there,' said Brother Valefor. 'Perhaps he hopes to escape us in the confusion of battle, or even make truck with the xenos."
[.]
"We can ill-afford to deviate from our mission, Brother Belial,' hissed Asmodai from behind his skull-mask. 'We must find the one once known as Brother Orias. The colonists will only serve to distract us.'"
Deathwing deployed, Fallen captured
??? not sure what you're trying to say.
anyway, I still feel it's a very fluffy inclusion. Greenwing will typically have very few members of the Inner Circle (Chapter masters etc) so appointing a single member of the Inner Circle for missions makes sense, and additional members may be added in extreme circumstances (Deathwing formation etc).
The "fluff" like most in 40K has changed over many years, but most of what i remember spans back to 3rd edition and before. still love the Deathwing story with the genestealer infestation.
Talys, why are you repeating all we had already found out and also spread so much confusion There has been an english translation of another article in WD that told us about the Deathwing Strike Force and Ravenwing Strike Force. Maybe you could verify that, but it is clear (as much as GW gives away - so that is relative at the moment) there are 3 core detachments in the codex. The Lion's Blade is only one of them
Warhams-77 wrote: Talys, why are you repeating all we had already found out and also spread so much confusion There has been an english translation of another article in WD that told us about the Deathwing Strike Force and Ravenwing Strike Force. Maybe you could verify that, but it is clear (as much as GW gives away - so that is relative at the moment) there are 3 core detachments in the codex. The Lion's Blade is only one of them
I'm not totally sure that the translation means you can choose from 3 cores to a Decurion type army (I have read the damned text 4 times now). Here is the English page that you refer to that makes it easier to understand.
When I first read this, I thought "why not build a force based around one of the other detachments in the codex" meant that you could use other Detachments other than a Battle Company (but not get the Decurion type bonus... whatever that may be). Then after I looked back at what you said, I thought, maybe it meant, you could pick from 3 cores, and it could mean that, I guess. I reread it a few times, and I'm still not positive.
Why: in a Gladius, for instance, you could "build a force based around the 1st company task force". Just take a 1st company task force, armored task force, and 10th company task force -- totally legit, just 3 detachments, no Decurion type bonus.
In other words:
Possibility #1 - there are 3 types of cores you can pick from (part of Decurion, yay) Possibility #2 - there are 2 more strike forces that are just detachments/formations based on ravenwing and deathwing auxiliaries already shown, possibly with some leader unit thrown in (ie not Decurion).
In support of possibility #2 - there is 1/2 page each (really just 2 paragraphs of text) on Deathwing Company and Ravenwing Company. But they just talk about DW and RW a little. Whereas in Lion's Blade is a few pages long and has many photos, plus talks about "the ultimate expression of adaptability" and "incredible flexibility" and all that. You know, the same kind of stuff they say about Gladius and War Host.
Sorry I caused confusion :(
PS - I don't like using "Decurion" but typing "Core-Command-Auxiliary Detachment" is too long at midnight
Warhams-77 wrote: Talys, why are you repeating all we had already found out and also spread so much confusion There has been an english translation of another article in WD that told us about the Deathwing Strike Force and Ravenwing Strike Force. Maybe you could verify that, but it is clear (as much as GW gives away - so that is relative at the moment) there are 3 core detachments in the codex. The Lion's Blade is only one of them
I'm not totally sure that the translation means you can choose from 3 cores to a Decurion type army (I have read the damned text 4 times now). Here is the English page that you refer to that makes it easier to understand.
When I first read this, I thought "why not build a force based around one of the other detachments in the codex" meant that you could use other Detachments other than a Battle Company (but not get the Decurion type bonus... whatever that may be). Then after I looked back at what you said, I thought, maybe it meant, you could pick from 3 cores, and it could mean that, I guess. I reread it a few times, and I'm still not positive.
Why: in a Gladius, for instance, you could "build a force based around the 1st company task force". Just take a 1st company task force, armored task force, and 10th company task force -- totally legit, just 3 detachments, no Decurion type bonus.
In other words:
Possibility #1 - there are 3 types of cores you can pick from (part of Decurion, yay)
Possibility #2 - there are 2 more strike forces that are just detachments/formations based on ravenwing and deathwing auxiliaries already shown, possibly with some leader unit thrown in (ie not Decurion).
In support of possibility #2 - there is 1/2 page each (really just 2 paragraphs of text) on Deathwing Company and Ravenwing Company. But they just talk about DW and RW a little. Whereas in Lion's Blade is a few pages long and has many photos, plus talks about "the ultimate expression of adaptability" and "incredible flexibility" and all that. You know, the same kind of stuff they say about Gladius and War Host.
Sorry I caused confusion :(
PS - I don't like using "Decurion" but typing "Core-Command-Auxiliary Detachment" is too long at midnight
Almost 100% sure that's from the 6th Ed. Apocalypse book. Same page style and has the Apoc-style faction and formation type indicators at the top, instead of the 7th Ed. Formation markings (the 3 skulls forming a triangle)
I'm definately gonna grab some Devastators and a box of Assault Marines.
The big issue for me is... I wanna continue building the Battlescribe data file, but I need leaks for that!!!
the fact that both detachments are capitalized (Deathwing Strike Force) indicates that it is indeed a separate formation and will probably be similar to a decurion. Why have a repeat of the already shown Deathwing Redemption Force? That wouldn't make a lot of sense. I'm guessing a lot more tactical options to each one.
I'm just hoping that the current detachments have decent enough rules to make them worthwhile and not make us jealous of what regular SM can do.
Kanluwen wrote: The fact that they are labeled "Detachments" suggests more that they will be akin to the Combined Arms Detachment.
not really as the WD indicates that you can build a demi-company or one of the other detachments, so it certainly refers to the demi company as a detachment (which it is in game terms anyway)
Kanluwen wrote: The fact that they are labeled "Detachments" suggests more that they will be akin to the Combined Arms Detachment.
not really as the WD indicates that you can build a demi-company or one of the other detachments, so it certainly refers to the demi company as a detachment (which it is in game terms anyway)
I disagree -- any battle-forged, independently playable group of units is a detachment, and GW calls any tightly restricted detachment a formation. For example, the popular Flesh Tearer's Strike Force, with 1-6FA used for BA taxi service, is referred to as a detachment. Or, Baal Strike Force from Codex: Blood Angels, or Realspace Raiders Detachment from codex DE. I think this is what DA will get for DW/RW as opposed to 2 more core options.
In contrast with Angel's Fury or Kabalite Raiding Party or Skyhammwer Annihilation Force, your have much more limited unit choice options.
Kanluwen wrote: The fact that they are labeled "Detachments" suggests more that they will be akin to the Combined Arms Detachment.
not really as the WD indicates that you can build a demi-company or one of the other detachments, so it certainly refers to the demi company as a detachment (which it is in game terms anyway)
I disagree -- any battle-forged, independently playable group of units is a detachment, and GW calls any tightly restricted detachment a formation. For example, the popular Flesh Tearer's Strike Force, with 1-6FA used for BA taxi service, is referred to as a detachment. Or, Baal Strike Force from Codex: Blood Angels, or Realspace Raiders Detachment from codex DE. I think this is what DA will get for DW/RW as opposed to 2 more core options.
In contrast with Angel's Fury or Kabalite Raiding Party or Skyhammwer Annihilation Force, your have much more limited unit choice options.
The Necron Decurion, Eldar War Host, and Gladius are all called Detachments, and they haven't done a Force Org difference since Blood Angels, in lieu of doing the new Multiple Formation Detachments (MFD, it's catching on)
Requizen wrote: The Necron Decurion, Eldar War Host, and Gladius are all called Detachments, and they haven't done a Force Org difference since Blood Angels, in lieu of doing the new Multiple Formation Detachments (MFD, it's catching on)
@Requizen - that's untrue. I can think of a few: Skitarii Maniple, Cult Mechanicus Battle Congregation, the Khorne Daemonkin book has one where you get Battle Frenzy (I think it's called a Cult of Blood Detachment or some such), and IK have their Household & Oathsworn Detachments
Requizen wrote: The Necron Decurion, Eldar War Host, and Gladius are all called Detachments, and they haven't done a Force Org difference since Blood Angels, in lieu of doing the new Multiple Formation Detachments (MFD, it's catching on)
@Requizen - that's untrue. I can think of a few: Skitarii Maniple, Cult Mechanicus Battle Congregation, the Khorne Daemonkin book has one where you get Battle Frenzy (I think it's called a Cult of Blood Detachment or some such), and IK have their Household & Oathsworn Detachments
Eh... Supplements are different in my mind. The Skitarii need one since they don't have an HQ. CM could run a CAD, but they don't have Fast Attack, so they got one without FA but with other changes. IK should be pretty obvious why they didn't go that route (nothing but LoWs). And none of those armies really had enough variety/units to do a MDF, though I assume AdMech will have one when (if) it gets a combined book.
I'm like 90% certain Daemonkin only has a MDF. I know they can run a CAD, but I don't think there's another FOC Detachment type in there. Someone with the book feel free to correct me, though.
Well, not really. Skitarii and Mechanicus could have had Core-Command-Auxiliary formations if GW wanted. Nothing in the Decurion/Warhost/Gladius say that you have to have an HQ. And you have Dominus.
Also, the Harlequin Masque is an alternate force org, that doesn't strictly conform to the same model.
But yeah, you're right about Khorne -- it is like a Gladius (dunno what I was thinking). One core, up to 1 command, and 1+ auxiliary (there's a max).
Talys wrote: Well, not really. Skitarii and Mechanicus could have had Core-Command-Auxiliary formations if GW wanted. Nothing in the Decurion/Warhost/Gladius say that you have to have an HQ.
Also, the Harlequin Masque is an alternate force org, that doesn't strictly conform to the same model.
They don't have Troops though. Again, armies that can't fit into a CAD are going to need a Force Org Detachment. But a full codex with multiple units in each slot? I don't see it happening given the precedent that has been set with Necrons, Daemonkin, Eldar, and Space Marines.
Talys wrote: Well, not really. Skitarii and Mechanicus could have had Core-Command-Auxiliary formations if GW wanted. Nothing in the Decurion/Warhost/Gladius say that you have to have an HQ.
Also, the Harlequin Masque is an alternate force org, that doesn't strictly conform to the same model.
They don't have Troops though. Again, armies that can't fit into a CAD are going to need a Force Org Detachment. But a full codex with multiple units in each slot? I don't see it happening given the precedent that has been set with Necrons, Daemonkin, Eldar, and Space Marines.
Cult Mechanicus has both troops and HQ by the way. I also do not think we're going to see a force org diagram for a detachment inside Codex Dark Angels for the Deathwing Strike Force.
However, I don't think it's a Core choice. Instead, I think it will just be a formation with a lot of flexibility, like the Flesh Tearer's Strike Force.
I do not think that going forward, anything with flexibility in force organization must be a core, command, or auxiliary choice. They'll just be "more flexible formations" aka detachments (or whatever, the terminology is inconsistent and sucks). In fairness, 1st Company Task Force gives a lot of flexibility. I was thinking the DW strike force would look like that -- but be neither an auxiliary or command. It would be more like Skyhammer -- you bolt it on to whatever else you want to play.
Talys wrote: Well, not really. Skitarii and Mechanicus could have had Core-Command-Auxiliary formations if GW wanted. Nothing in the Decurion/Warhost/Gladius say that you have to have an HQ.
Also, the Harlequin Masque is an alternate force org, that doesn't strictly conform to the same model.
They don't have Troops though. Again, armies that can't fit into a CAD are going to need a Force Org Detachment. But a full codex with multiple units in each slot? I don't see it happening given the precedent that has been set with Necrons, Daemonkin, Eldar, and Space Marines.
Cult Mechanicus has both troops and HQ by the way. I also do not think we're going to see a force org diagram for a detachment inside Codex Dark Angels for the Deathwing Strike Force.
However, I don't think it's a Core choice. Instead, I think it will just be a formation with a lot of flexibility, like the Flesh Tearer's Strike Force.
I do not think that going forward, anything with flexibility in force organization must be a core, command, or auxiliary choice. They'll just be "more flexible formations" aka detachments.
Yeah, I'm not sure how it'll work. I guess we'll find out relatively soon!
Well I know that here in China they get a solid month of releases with each shipment instead of every week. So while they don't tell us anything it is possible for a staffer to have access. I am sure they do the same for other countries where it is not efficienct to have a weekly distribution
Relapse wrote: I think the time has come to get the 60+ terminators I have painted and on the table.
Dang I only got 51 DW , 72 total over all the SM chapters. if Belial allows terms to be troops again and the price drop to 35 pionts per models like C:SM comes out to 47 Deathwing terms Just Basic Gear Ofc. Still 47 terms turn 1 sounds pretty good .
Relapse wrote: I think the time has come to get the 60+ terminators I have painted and on the table.
Dang I only got 51 DW , 72 total over all the SM chapters.
Sounds like a fair number of lads to plunk down on a table.
we could always pay the 10 for TH/SS go down to 36.8 terms with that nastyness and go 1st turn. 10 no scatter with the other 26 slightly scattering and go yep next turn smashing your face. good luck with those 5 squads of terms. 6th one being 10 strong.
Relapse wrote: I think the time has come to get the 60+ terminators I have painted and on the table.
Dang I only got 51 DW , 72 total over all the SM chapters. if Belial allows terms to be troops again and the price drop to 35 pionts per models like C:SM comes out to 47 Deathwing terms Just Basic Gear Ofc. Still 47 terms turn 1 sounds pretty good .
If they keep their special rules, I can't see them dropping to 35pts. It would make them more attractive but I don't see it.
Relapse wrote: I think the time has come to get the 60+ terminators I have painted and on the table.
Dang I only got 51 DW , 72 total over all the SM chapters. if Belial allows terms to be troops again and the price drop to 35 pionts per models like C:SM comes out to 47 Deathwing terms Just Basic Gear Ofc. Still 47 terms turn 1 sounds pretty good .
If they keep their special rules, I can't see them dropping to 35pts. It would make them more attractive but I don't see it.
A Man can dream Anything less then 40 PPM and Belial keeping tactical precision for 1st turn death wing then assault squads/ drop pods arriving turn 2 no scatter will be worth it. If the Libby would just get DW assault when he up grades to term armor that would be solid gold.
Relapse wrote: I think the time has come to get the 60+ terminators I have painted and on the table.
Dang I only got 51 DW , 72 total over all the SM chapters. if Belial allows terms to be troops again and the price drop to 35 pionts per models like C:SM comes out to 47 Deathwing terms Just Basic Gear Ofc. Still 47 terms turn 1 sounds pretty good .
If they keep their special rules, I can't see them dropping to 35pts. It would make them more attractive but I don't see it.
A Man can dream Anything less then 40 PPM and Belial keeping tactical precision for 1st turn death wing then assault squads/ drop pods arriving turn 2 no scatter will be worth it. If the Libby would just get DW assault when he up grades to term armor that would be solid gold.
I went through this earlier, if they keep it in line with space marines, 35ppm, free chapter tactics basically, if not were looking at 37/8 ppm more than likely, dw at 35ppm would be excellent though, that's 350 for a naked 10 man sqaud, 1480 for 40 termies with dual plasma cannons, that leaves plenty of room for other stuff, like hammers, fliers, a company master etc. Whatever, it's looking good
I find it HI...FFING...LARIOUS, that not even 15 min after the pre order of the codex went up it was sold out... REALY GW? no on will pre order this CODEX (DA nerds EXCL) untill they know it aint as gakky as the last one...
full BS during overwatch would be ridiculous. I love my Dark Angels, but I also play Harelquins and my buddy has DAs too. Harelquins would be as good as useless vs them unless I get multiple allied CADs with Autarchs with banshee masks.
bullyboy wrote: full BS during overwatch would be ridiculous. I love my Dark Angels, but I also play Harelquins and my buddy has DAs too. Harelquins would be as good as useless vs them unless I get multiple allied CADs with Autarchs with banshee masks.
That's a bit of a different story though, as it's a pair of Battle Demi-Companies, one mandating you take a Chaplain and one mandating a Company Master.
Kanluwen wrote: That's a bit of a different story though, as it's a pair of Battle Demi-Companies, one mandating you take a Chaplain and one mandating a Company Master.
That does make me happy though.
Only the one with free transports needs two, as it specifies in the description.
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I guess you all did..
