The MoN one throwing defensive grenades is definitely funny then.
It is a matter of RAI vs RAW.
The rules for a Chaos Knight says that a Daemon Knight of <God> counts as a Daemon aligned with <God>. Now that is somewhat ambiguous because by RAW, there is no such thing as a Daemon aligned with <God> (there is only a Daemon of <God> ). Most people believe that the RAI is that a Daemon aligned with <God> should be the same as a Daemon of <God>. They demonstrated this by voting for the RAI interpretation in the latest ITC voting poll.
Personally, I believe the RAI is correct as the RAW is nonsense and GW sucks at writing. Lol.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I figured it just meant for random bonuses or getting hit by the Warpstorm and junk. Beats me.
I agree. Frankly I think RAI is that they don't also get Daemon of X either because if they had intended for it to do so they would have actually put in Daemon of X
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I figured it just meant for random bonuses or getting hit by the Warpstorm and junk. Beats me.
I agree. Frankly I think RAI is that they don't also get Daemon of X either because if they had intended for it to do so they would have actually put in Daemon of X
There'd be no point to even mentioning about them being a Daemon aligned with <God> then. They should have just left it as "a Knight of <God> counts as being a Daemon" instead of "a Knight of <God> counts as being a Daemon aligned with <God>."
In any case, I think we can all agree that GW/FW writing has been sloppy as of late (as in, the last 2 editions). So did the ITC public, which was why the majority of them voted for what they believed GW had intended.
The price of each upgrade make also a lot more sense if they include being a Demon of X.
A CK benefits greatly from the base rules included when being a demon of Tzeentch or Nurgle while benefiting a lot less of being Demon of Slaanesh or Khorne.
CK of Tzeentch pays 75pts to get reroll 1 to hit and Soul Blaze heavy stubbers ? Please... it is just crazy overpriced. Unless it also include being a Demon of Tzeentch with that sweet reroll on saves.
So what do you think if the FAQs stay this way? Buff for MCs or Nerf?
Rule for Psycic Powers made DPs a lot better in my opinion! What do you think?
It definitely keeps them as top tier psykers, the only thing that could hurt them is if FMCs blanket get no toe in cover. I hope it just applies to them while swooping, but we wont know for sure until an updated version is released.
NOW the multi-assaulting multiple units with a single MC is a HUGE boon to tetrad, as with their 12" move, it is fairly easy to position them in a way to charge multiple units. DO the ol' how to kill a 3++ riptide tactic, assault it and another unit, throw everything into the other unit, and sweep the riptide!
The loss of toe-in-terrain hurts a little, but we can still jink. Moreover, we can still jink and auto-hit with Shriek.
I don't think this is right. The FAQ clarifies Psychic Shriek does not need to roll to hit, but it is still a witchfire and therefore a shooting attack. Rules on snapshots say (to some effect, rulebook isn't in front of me) that you can't use shooting attacks that don't roll to hit as snapshots. So no Jink & Shriek, awesome as that would be.
Blast and templates CAN hit flyers if the firing model has skyfire though. So your Nurgle DP can take flight and fire off its primaris power at another FMC just for laughs.
I think Shriek still needs a bit of clarification. Right now I would play it as a shooting attack that auto hits, so it can't snap fire, which stinks because its just yelling with your brain. Though there are some arguments popping up for it to be used against invisibility, as it doesn't need to hit.
The grenades is a huge buff to tetrad. Nurgle prince got hit hard needing 25% cover, but with jink its all ok.
Fhionnuisce wrote: The FAQ clarifies Psychic Shriek does not need to roll to hit, but it is still a witchfire and therefore a shooting attack. Rules on snapshots say (to some effect, rulebook isn't in front of me) that you can't use shooting attacks that don't roll to hit as snapshots. So no Jink & Shriek, awesome as that would be.
Lets take a look at the rules.
p167 BRB "If a unit Jinks, all models in the unit with this special rule gain 4+ cover save until the start of their next Movement phase, but can only fire Snap Shots until the end of their next turn"
p33 BRB Some weapon types, such as Template and Ordnances, or those that have certain special rules, such as blast, cannot be fired as Snap Shots. In addition, any shooting attack that does not use Ballistic Skill cannot be 'fired' as a snap shot.
FAQ However, some witchfire powers do not have a weapon profile (Such as the Telepathy power Psychic Shriek); where this is the case no To Hit roll is required -- the attack automatically hits.
The Question The question is this -- since psychic shriek does not have a weapon profile, does it classify as a 'shooting attack that does not use Ballistic Skill'?
Personally I don't think so, given that it does not have a profile. The RAI is clearly intended to include things such a blast templates.
Of course, I have been wrong many times before
Fhionnuisce wrote: The FAQ clarifies Psychic Shriek does not need to roll to hit, but it is still a witchfire and therefore a shooting attack. Rules on snapshots say (to some effect, rulebook isn't in front of me) that you can't use shooting attacks that don't roll to hit as snapshots. So no Jink & Shriek, awesome as that would be.
Lets take a look at the rules.
p167 BRB "If a unit Jinks, all models in the unit with this special rule gain 4+ cover save until the start of their next Movement phase, but can only fire Snap Shots until the end of their next turn"
p33 BRB Some weapon types, such as Template and Ordnances, or those that have certain special rules, such as blast, cannot be fired as Snap Shots. In addition, any shooting attack that does not use Ballistic Skill cannot be 'fired' as a snap shot.
FAQ However, some witchfire powers do not have a weapon profile (Such as the Telepathy power Psychic Shriek); where this is the case no To Hit roll is required -- the attack automatically hits.
The Question The question is this -- since psychic shriek does not have a weapon profile, does it classify as a 'shooting attack that does not use Ballistic Skill'?
Personally I don't think so, given that it does not have a profile. The RAI is clearly intended to include things such a blast templates.
Of course, I have been wrong many times before
I personally would agree with you, but can see it both ways. Time will (hopefully) tell.
It will be argued in YMDC for 20+ pages as these things tend to be
However to me the fact that blast, ordnance, and template weapons are listed separately strongly implies they are not all that is meant by attacks that do not use BS. We'll see how everything plays out over time, but I would not recommend dropping a lot of money to build an army around Jink & Shriek just yet.
The loss of toe-in-terrain hurts a little, but we can still jink. Moreover, we can still jink and auto-hit with Shriek.
I don't think this is right. The FAQ clarifies Psychic Shriek does not need to roll to hit, but it is still a witchfire and therefore a shooting attack. Rules on snapshots say (to some effect, rulebook isn't in front of me) that you can't use shooting attacks that don't roll to hit as snapshots. So no Jink & Shriek, awesome as that would be.
Fhionnuisce wrote: The FAQ clarifies Psychic Shriek does not need to roll to hit, but it is still a witchfire and therefore a shooting attack. Rules on snapshots say (to some effect, rulebook isn't in front of me) that you can't use shooting attacks that don't roll to hit as snapshots. So no Jink & Shriek, awesome as that would be.
Lets take a look at the rules.
p167 BRB "If a unit Jinks, all models in the unit with this special rule gain 4+ cover save until the start of their next Movement phase, but can only fire Snap Shots until the end of their next turn"
p33 BRB Some weapon types, such as Template and Ordnances, or those that have certain special rules, such as blast, cannot be fired as Snap Shots. In addition, any shooting attack that does not use Ballistic Skill cannot be 'fired' as a snap shot.
FAQ However, some witchfire powers do not have a weapon profile (Such as the Telepathy power Psychic Shriek); where this is the case no To Hit roll is required -- the attack automatically hits.
The Question The question is this -- since psychic shriek does not have a weapon profile, does it classify as a 'shooting attack that does not use Ballistic Skill'?
Personally I don't think so, given that it does not have a profile. The RAI is clearly intended to include things such a blast templates.
Of course, I have been wrong many times before
It in fact exactly qualifies as a "shooting attack that does not use Ballistic Skill", as all witchfires are psychic shooting attacks, and as it auto hits, it does not use BS. I would say no jink and shriek
RAI, Daemon Knight/Titan of X is not supposed to be the same as Daemon of X. This is easily demonstrated by the fact that Daemon Knight/Titan of X lists several special rules that are already contained in Daemon of X, which would not be necessary or useful if Daemon Knight/Titan of X directly incorporated Daemon of X. Furthermore, I've heard that the guy who wrote the original rules (in IA:13) was asked about this verbally and expressed surprised that anyone thought you would get Daemon of X. Finally, I've emailed Forgeworld and they've also strongly suggested that you don't get Daemon of X.
RAW you can make arguments of language either way, and it's a stupid restriction anyway.
ITC's ruling seems "wrong" but if people really did vote for it (I was not aware of that, need to go look at the FAQ), then that's a huge buff to Daemon Knights and I might play them locally at ITC events. But I think this may get FAQ'd soon by GW or FW or both.
Until GW/FW officially announces how a Daemon Knight of X is played somewhere on its website, it is all speculation to me. I don't take much stock as to what just 1 employee says. They have been known to make mistakes as well. There is no point to bring up that it is a Daemon aligned with X if that plays no part in the rules at all.
In any case, the ruling for the ITC was voted on by the people so yeah, the Chaos Knight got buffed in the ITC format....or perhaps it just got what is rightfully its to begin with. Who knows and more importantly, who cares? No other major tournament format allows the Chaos Knight for their tournaments besides the ITC and those who follow the ITC rulesets. That's all that matters - what the ITC public thinks.
Tonight I played Tetrad vs Tetrad.
I brought a 'Pacific Rim' Tetrad with 2 knights. He brought 4 squads of daemonettes, 1 squad of seekers and 1 herald with his princes.
We were playing NOVA format, and both choose to score at the end. I took 'linebreaker', 'marked for death', and 'kill points'. He took 'Heart of the Matter', 'Marked for Death' and 'Linebreaker'.
I was really quite impressed with his ability to spawn out new heralds, and he completely dominated me on the psychic phase. His daemonettes were also a significant threat to my princes, and his princes were better equipped than mine.
The knights parted daemonettes like Moses and the red sea. Most of the damage came from stomps and entire squads were removed.
The knights also stomped out the Tzeentch prince, though that was after the Tzeentch prince did 5 hull points of damage to the knight. If he was able to get another prince into it, the knight would have died.
My opponent made a few mistakes, like falling into the temptation on keeping the slaanesh prince swooping the entire game to use iron arm and lash of submission. Sure, 2d6STR 10 attacks are nice, but at 300 points, its a big investment. He kept his nurgle prince in the air, which allowed me to focus 3 of my princes and 1 knight into his 2 princes, overwhelming him.
Even with those mistakes, the primary mission was close, with the only reason I got it was that he was unable to consolidate onto an objective.
It was also a very interesting and fun game to play tetrad vs tetrad.
It's very interesting to see what this FAQ will change.
@Labmouse42
Which Build of the Tetrad do you think is better? Tetrad + Knights or Tetrad + MSU?
I also want to ask is there a viable Build for a 1500 Point Tetrad List? In my area there a lots of 1500 or 1850 Games and at home we also play a lot of 1500 Point Games.
Darksider wrote: I also want to ask is there a viable Build for a 1500 Point Tetrad List? In my area there a lots of 1500 or 1850 Games and at home we also play a lot of 1500 Point Games.
jy2 wrote: BTW, were you guys playing the new GWFAQ (i.e. auto-hit Shrieks)?
We were practicing for a tourney this weekend and since that event is not using the new FAQ (since they are first draft) we did not. Given that the tetrad princes hit 35/36 of the time (rerolling 1s to hit) it did not make a difference.
I'm kinda concerned about the "auto-hit" Shriek. This will make Jinking a bit less appealing, since Jinking makes you snap fire and 'auto-hit" shooting attacks cannot fire snap shoots. Especially since you don't get 'toe-in-cover' while swooping anymore, you will be encouraged to either Jink more, or stay on the ground more.
Galef wrote: I'm kinda concerned about the "auto-hit" Shriek. This will make Jinking a bit less appealing, since Jinking makes you snap fire and 'auto-hit" shooting attacks cannot fire snap shoots. Especially since you don't get 'toe-in-cover' while swooping anymore, you will be encouraged to either Jink more, or stay on the ground more.
Would you really be casting shriek jinking anyway ? You'd hit on sixes and have to invest warp charge.
Darksider wrote: Which Build of the Tetrad do you think is better? Tetrad + Knights or Tetrad + MSU?
I also want to ask is there a viable Build for a 1500 Point Tetrad List? In my area there a lots of 1500 or 1850 Games and at home we also play a lot of 1500 Point Games.
It's going to take more testing to really find out.
There is a lot to be said for bringing 44 horrors to give psychic support and lots of Obsec. When you fuel the princes with 20+ warp dice they can cause a lot of havoc. On the other hand, knights can just roll through those units -- which is what they did.
In a format like NOVA where I can score at the end, I can go out of my way to smash all his units and grab objectives at the end. In a format like ITC I think the MSU is better where you are progressively scoring by default.
In a 1500 point game, you are ahead because the tetrad can take up a larger percentage of your army. I would grab a big tetrad in your case and a small CaD. If you have the models, I would try this.
Infernal Tetrad
···Daemon Prince of Khorne [Armour of Scorn, 2x Greater Reward, 1x Lesser Reward, Flight]
···Daemon Prince of Nurgle [2x Greater Reward, 1x Lesser Reward, Flight, ML 3]
···Daemon Prince of Slaanesh [2x Greater Reward, Flight, ML 3, Soulstealer]
···Daemon Prince of Tzeentch [The Impossible Robe, 2x Greater Reward, 1x Lesser Reward, Flight, ML 3]
CaD
···Hearld of Tzeentch
...11 Horrors
...10 Horrors
It gives you 4 psychic support dice to toss to your princes, and lets you also summon extra models if you don't need the dice on your princes.
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Galef wrote: I'm kinda concerned about the "auto-hit" Shriek. This will make Jinking a bit less appealing, since Jinking makes you snap fire and 'auto-hit" shooting attacks cannot fire snap shoots. Especially since you don't get 'toe-in-cover' while swooping anymore, you will be encouraged to either Jink more, or stay on the ground more.
It's been my experience that in 80% of the turns you have a Tetrad, they should be gliding and not swooping.
One of the reasons I won the game last night is that my opponent said to himself "My slaanesh prince has iron arm and lash of submission, I'll swoop him around and rain 2d6STR 10 shots down every turn". That is exactly what it did, and overall it managed to do 3 wounds with shriek, 1 wound with lash, and 2 hull points off my knights.
That STR 10 prince would have been much better suited on the ground smashing the face in on knights (especially since he also rolled warp speed!)
When I started playing the Tetrad I made the same mistake often. I tried 2 games with them and thought they were useless. "Man, I'm paying a 280 point tax just for the Khorne Prince"
Someone here on Dakka mentioned that keeping the entire quartet on the ground in the middle of Be'lakor was a good tactic. At first I thought "No way!", they would just get shot off the board. Then I tried it, and was amazed at the results.
It's counter-intuitive to keep them gliding most of the game as we all think FMCs should be swooping, but that's the best way I've seen to play them. All I can suggest is trying it.
Thanks for your fast answers. I really appreciate that^^.
I also think that testing will show us, which way is the right one.
But in my opinions there are already two viable Lists
1st with Tetrad + 2 Renegade Knights
2nd with Tetrad + Belakor with 2x11 Horrors
MSU Spam is kinda hard to make with the Tetrad, because they already eat a large portion of your Pointlimit.
Also do i think that swooping is better for the Tetrad, cause you don't waste the potential of the Demonprinces in CC and as Areacontrol Unit. Nobody wants to get charged by a few DPs with Str 7 or Str 8 with 6-7 Attacks and AP 2.
It's very interesting to see what this FAQ will change.
@Labmouse42
Which Build of the Tetrad do you think is better? Tetrad + Knights or Tetrad + MSU?
I also want to ask is there a viable Build for a 1500 Point Tetrad List? In my area there a lots of 1500 or 1850 Games and at home we also play a lot of 1500 Point Games.
At smaller games, Summoning gives you better results. Opposing armies just do not have as much resources to take on the extra units as they would in larger games.
At 1500 I'd go with a Tzeentch Herald and at least 1 unit of 11 Horrors.
Darksider wrote: Thanks for your fast answers. I really appreciate that^^.
I also think that testing will show us, which way is the right one.
But in my opinions there are already two viable Lists
1st with Tetrad + 2 Renegade Knights
2nd with Tetrad + Belakor with 2x11 Horrors
MSU Spam is kinda hard to make with the Tetrad, because they already eat a large portion of your Pointlimit.
Also do i think that swooping is better for the Tetrad, cause you don't waste the potential of the Demonprinces in CC and as Areacontrol Unit. Nobody wants to get charged by a few DPs with Str 7 or Str 8 with 6-7 Attacks and AP 2.
If you play NOVA format, take any option with troops choices, you don't want to give up 2 free pts to your opponent because you didnt bring a troop unit.
I wonder how the Tetrad will fair against SM deathstars. If the conclave roll everything on librarius and get the null zone power its gonna be bad news for any daemon unit. I mean you can throw all your 20 WC to deny it, math average out to 3 sixes, but the conclave just have to get 4-5 WC off on 2+ which should be easy. And also with the new GWFaq, daemons can't stack cursed earth anymore. The tetrad may just have to stay swooping and kill off their supporting units and avoid the death star all game.
Unless its Ravenwing+SW deathstar, the bell+a bunch of shrieks will hurt them. But against IH deathstar where there are many 3++ (re-roll with veil) and 3+++ FNP, its gonna be almost impossible to kill. Only thing I can think of is maybe the Lash prince shooting with Iron arm and that Tzeetnch D spell. You can charge them with a Nurgle prince with baleful sword, but most likely it'll get crushed in return.
EDIT: Nvm a Lvl3 DP can deny a Lvl2 Libby on a 4+, so Nullzone aside basically only the Tzeentch DP can reliably survive a SM deathstar onslaught
SonsofVulkan wrote: If you play NOVA format, take any option with troops choices, you don't want to give up 2 free pts to your opponent because you didnt bring a troop unit.
Yep. C'est la vie
SonsofVulkan wrote: I wonder how the Tetrad will fair against SM deathstars. If the conclave roll everything on librarius and get the null zone power its gonna be bad news for any daemon unit.
I just played a game of this with my buddy Pat. He brought a nasty list with space wolves and white scars. He had my tzeentch prince marked for death, cast null zone, then shot 12 grav into him on turn one -- killing the normally unkillable prince.
I then assaulted with the Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh princes and two knights and absolutely f***ing murdered him. The nurgle prince got warp speed off, and ID'ed his way through the squad chopping right through librarians ignoring his FNP. The princes killed so much one knight could not even swing and neither could stomp.He got a few swings off on some princes but lost all but 1 of his librarians, kahn, and 2 command squad bikes.
The fled Kahn into another one of his units, and then assaulted with his librarian and 2 command bikers into the Khorne prince, who ate them for breakfast. He blew up a knight with melta, and over the new few turns managed to kill 3 princes total. The slaanesh prince, with 1 wound left, cast possession and turned himself into a D-thirster who grabbed the relic.
Most of the game was cleanup. I failed a four 7" charges in a row, and so off of objectives, secondaries and tretaries, he won by 1 point. If I had made even one of those charges, I would have won the game.
Either way, it was a great game vs a highly skilled player. Pat was telling me, and I agree, that the knights bark is worse than their bite. They look scary, but unless you get some lucky stomp rolls they are not the real threat. The tetrad is just so damn deadly and did most of the heavy lifting that game.
As I mentioned earlier, I would not bring the 'Pacific Rim' list to a ITC event. Progressive scoring strongly favors different armies, and bringing a tzeentch knight that can get a 2++ is way to good to pass up.
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SonsofVulkan wrote: EDIT: Nvm a Lvl3 DP can deny a Lvl2 Libby on a 4+, so Nullzone aside basically only the Tzeentch DP can reliably survive a SM deathstar onslaught
Does NullZone target a unit or model? We played it as having no target requiring a 6 to deny.
There was an article on the mathhammer of denial on frontline gaming's page this week. If you read it, you can see that 20 dice has a 43% chance of denying 4 successes on a 6+
Edit : Well ... bloody 'ell. I just read that it's a malediction. Denying on a 4++ means that I would have stopped it cold with 10 dice, and then I would not have lost the Tzeentch prince. Oh well, live and learn
@Labmouse: From the current primer on the website: Strike the Rank and File – If you destroy every enemy Troop unit (not counting Dedicated Transports), you achieve this Secondary. Note: if the opponent has no Troop choices (or all of their Troop choices do not count for scoring purposes), you achieve it automatically.
So if you have no troops or only muclids like troops in a flyrant list, you will surrender these two points essentially every game.
If you play NOVA format, take any option with troops choices, you don't want to give up 2 free pts to your opponent because you didnt bring a troop unit.
I am new to the tournament scene and so I don't know if there is a tournament like NOVA in our country. But I also think that the troop choices aren't bad, because of Obsec.
@jy2
Thanks^^. But do you have the warpcharge to attempt more than one try to summon a unit, without gimping yourself to much? (DPs also need their buffs^^)
Thanks^^. But do you have the warpcharge to attempt more than one try to summon a unit, without gimping yourself to much? (DPs also need their buffs^^)
You don't have to spend all your WC on buffing your units. At 1500, your opponent won't have nearly the firepower that he would at 1850 to kill your DP's. Moreover, your Nurgle DP can jink for 2+ cover. You can spare the charge to do at least 1 Summoning a turn and that's all you really need. If you can summon 1 unit a turn, that will be almost a 500-pt advantage you will have over your opponent over the course of 5 turns.
Okay so i summon one unit a turn. What should i summon? Hounds to grab objectives faster or some Horrors to gain more Warpcharges?
Another question to me is, why do opponents lack the firepower on 1500 points? Do 350 Points really make that much difference? Its one Knight or so less but you can already fit 3 Knights into 1500 Points.
SonsofVulkan wrote: If you play NOVA format, take any option with troops choices, you don't want to give up 2 free pts to your opponent because you didnt bring a troop unit.
Yep. C'est la vie
SonsofVulkan wrote: I wonder how the Tetrad will fair against SM deathstars. If the conclave roll everything on librarius and get the null zone power its gonna be bad news for any daemon unit.
I just played a game of this with my buddy Pat. He brought a nasty list with space wolves and white scars. He had my tzeentch prince marked for death, cast null zone, then shot 12 grav into him on turn one -- killing the normally unkillable prince.
I then assaulted with the Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh princes and two knights and absolutely f***ing murdered him. The nurgle prince got warp speed off, and ID'ed his way through the squad chopping right through librarians ignoring his FNP. The princes killed so much one knight could not even swing and neither could stomp.He got a few swings off on some princes but lost all but 1 of his librarians, kahn, and 2 command squad bikes.
The fled Kahn into another one of his units, and then assaulted with his librarian and 2 command bikers into the Khorne prince, who ate them for breakfast. He blew up a knight with melta, and over the new few turns managed to kill 3 princes total. The slaanesh prince, with 1 wound left, cast possession and turned himself into a D-thirster who grabbed the relic.
Most of the game was cleanup. I failed a four 7" charges in a row, and so off of objectives, secondaries and tretaries, he won by 1 point. If I had made even one of those charges, I would have won the game.
Either way, it was a great game vs a highly skilled player. Pat was telling me, and I agree, that the knights bark is worse than their bite. They look scary, but unless you get some lucky stomp rolls they are not the real threat. The tetrad is just so damn deadly and did most of the heavy lifting that game.
As I mentioned earlier, I would not bring the 'Pacific Rim' list to a ITC event. Progressive scoring strongly favors different armies, and bringing a tzeentch knight that can get a 2++ is way to good to pass up.
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SonsofVulkan wrote: EDIT: Nvm a Lvl3 DP can deny a Lvl2 Libby on a 4+, so Nullzone aside basically only the Tzeentch DP can reliably survive a SM deathstar onslaught
Does NullZone target a unit or model? We played it as having no target requiring a 6 to deny.
There was an article on the mathhammer of denial on frontline gaming's page this week. If you read it, you can see that 20 dice has a 43% chance of denying 4 successes on a 6+
Edit : Well ... bloody 'ell. I just read that it's a malediction. Denying on a 4++ means that I would have stopped it cold with 10 dice, and then I would not have lost the Tzeentch prince. Oh well, live and learn
No if you have no troop choices you auto give up 2 pts secondary
In that situation it was imperative for the SM to cast veil of time than null zone. 3++ with reroll will make any deathstar way more survivable, and just hope no 6s are rolled on the D or stomp table. I run IH star with a CM (2+++ fnp) and lots of other 3++ with 3+++ FNP.
Also a Khorne DP is probably a better to mark for death. But regardless I'd target the prince with iron arm first since it's way more dangerous, and concussive from grav guns will make DP hit at init 1. And once one prince dies, the rest are back to T5.
Question- I am putting together a Tetrad list right now . Includes a double Gatling knight and a small daemon cad to fill the last 155 points.
Basically it comes to the Nurgle Prince- I was thinking of using the "corruption weapon"... I usually use the bales word but I kinda like the idea of corruption. Still has touch of rust to glance out vehicles, but loses instant death... Difference is I auto-wound with every hit. Gonna be titing on 3 or 4 most of time anyways.... Or do I keep balesword to ID those tough MC s ?
In the list I made I have a greater reward on the Nurgle Prince anyways, so I can have both weapons and just use the balesword for when I need the ID
Okay so i summon one unit a turn. What should i summon? Hounds to grab objectives faster or some Horrors to gain more Warpcharges?
Another question to me is, why do opponents lack the firepower on 1500 points? Do 350 Points really make that much difference? Its one Knight or so less but you can already fit 3 Knights into 1500 Points.
Flesh Hounds or Daemonettes are the best units to summon. Pink Horrors are secondary.
Tzeentch Heralds are also great if you get Sacrifice.
From 1850 (the tournament standard here in the US) to 1500 is an average decrease of about 19% in offense/firepower. That could mean a significant difference. For example, in an Eldar army, that could be 13 Scatterbikes. For a Marine army, that is more than 4 Grav Centurions. For a Tau army, that is 5 High-yield broadsides. For a Daemon army, that is less almost 22 Flesh Hounds.
KhorneontheCobb wrote: Question- I am putting together a Tetrad list right now . Includes a double Gatling knight and a small daemon cad to fill the last 155 points.
Basically it comes to the Nurgle Prince- I was thinking of using the "corruption weapon"... I usually use the bales word but I kinda like the idea of corruption. Still has touch of rust to glance out vehicles, but loses instant death... Difference is I auto-wound with every hit. Gonna be titing on 3 or 4 most of time anyways.... Or do I keep balesword to ID those tough MC s ?
In the list I made I have a greater reward on the Nurgle Prince anyways, so I can have both weapons and just use the balesword for when I need the ID
The Balesword is superior. Period. Don't waste your points. Instead, use those points to buy another Greater Reward, if not for the Nurgle DP then for another DP. The problem here is that defensive buffs are more important than offensive ones. What good is having both the Balesword and the corruption weapon if your DP cannot live long enough to use them? You need more defensive buffs in Greater Rewards or more Psyker Mastery Levels to try to get some defensive psychic powers.
jy2 wrote: The problem here is that defensive buffs are more important than offensive ones.
This is actually a point in favour of Corruption, since it means you can still have a good weapon without needing to sacrifice one of your 2 greater rewards and therefore, survivability.
I still think 2 greaters and using one for the balesword is better, but corruption does have its place, even if it it extremely niche.
about balesword-----corruption, most depend what you face most, if you face things like wraithknights corruption is better, about unit to summon i found very useful screamers, you summon them turbobost on objective and try to keep it, when you summon 3-4 units you can let them score obj points and tetrad slam damage into opponent face.
sorry for the spam, and if you need to see the lists i have go ahead and ask
I'll give you my rankings for these lists, on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being a top-tier GT-winning list.
1. knights+ tetrad - 7. Objectives is a problem with this list. You almost have to go for the table to win in many scenarios.
2. riptide wing + tetrad - 7.5. Riptide wing is a solid addition to almost any lists. Moreover, they provide the Tetrad with much needed firepower. However, besides the shooting, riptides don't buff up the Tetrad in any ways and without Markerlight support, they aren't nearly as effective as they could be.
3. infernal tetrad+ cyclopia cabal+ flesh hounds allies - 7. You need at least 2K to run this list effectively. You won't be able to do it at 1850 without taking away from the Tetrad. They make for a good force-multiplier but the unit is potentially fragile.
4. infernal tetrad+ stealth cadre - 6. Not as good as riptide wing + tetrad. Less firepower and less resiliency.
5. 5. infernal tetrad+ ork big mek stompa - 6. Scoring will be a problem. I'd rather run 2 Knights over 1 Stompa.
6. infernal tetrad+ destoryer cult - 8. Necron resiliency and decent/shooting + mobility makes the Destroyer Cult another welcome add-on formation to many armies. I actually like this build.
7. infernal tetrad+ screamer formation - 8.5. This is potentially a very good build if you can fit all of that in. 2K is doable but unfortunately, I don't think you can do it at 1850 (assuming the Burning Skyhost formation). This is my favorite of all the builds you have listed. Too bad it won't work at 1850.
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Slayer-Fan123 wrote: With Destroyer Cult? How the hell do you have points for that?
It's only about 550-600 pts, depending on upgrades and whether you take Heavy Destroyers as well. It is doable at 1850.
just realized unless its an itc thing that chaos daemons cant ally unless you are orks, csm, or deldar
Automatically Appended Next Post: so there goes my intense love of daemon princes. back to the drawing board for making my chaos space marines and princes comeptitve!
I can tell you from this past weekend that this does not work in a tourney. You lack enough models to really do damage.
jy2 wrote: 7. infernal tetrad+ screamer formation - 8.5. This is potentially a very good build if you can fit all of that in. 2K is doable but unfortunately, I don't think you can do it at 1850 (assuming the Burning Skyhost formation). This is my favorite of all the builds you have listed. Too bad it won't work at 1850.
You --could-- make it fit with a 1245 tetrad. That's what I ran over this weekend, and it was not the tetrad that was the weak point, it was the two knights I brought.
If you bring 27 screamers, a 45 point herald, and a 25 point disc, you have 1245 points left over for the tetrad. The burning host will run you 745.
Unlike the two knights, it gives you a lot more units to score with.
However, I cannot stress this enough. Running a warphost formation mitigates the warp storm table to an incredible degree. I lost one game because a 4 came up on the warp storm table, meaning that even through I was rerolling saves, going from a 3+ to a 4+ on the tzeentch prince killed him. In two games I rolled a 3, causing 2 wounds in one instance and killing another prince in another game. When you only have 6 models, losing a prince to bad luck can easily cost you the game.
The tetrad is a lot better at 2k and 2500 than 1850. There is a reason you don't see it winning at big events.
-v10mega wrote: just realized unless its an itc thing that chaos daemons cant ally unless you are orks, csm, or deldar
Automatically Appended Next Post: so there goes my intense love of daemon princes. back to the drawing board for making my chaos space marines and princes comeptitve!
NOVA format you can.
Stick with a Daemon screamer star CAD:
Herald on disk, grim, lvl2 or 3
2x10 Horrors
6xScreamers
^ im not a chaos daemon player, the tetrad sparked me but now im not really interested after realizing that infernal tetrad, no matter how i wrap my head around it, it does not work. Now i just have to find a good way to play my csm...
I can tell you from this past weekend that this does not work in a tourney. You lack enough models to really do damage.
jy2 wrote: 7. infernal tetrad+ screamer formation - 8.5. This is potentially a very good build if you can fit all of that in. 2K is doable but unfortunately, I don't think you can do it at 1850 (assuming the Burning Skyhost formation). This is my favorite of all the builds you have listed. Too bad it won't work at 1850.
You --could-- make it fit with a 1245 tetrad. That's what I ran over this weekend, and it was not the tetrad that was the weak point, it was the two knights I brought.
If you bring 27 screamers, a 45 point herald, and a 25 point disc, you have 1245 points left over for the tetrad. The burning host will run you 745.
Unlike the two knights, it gives you a lot more units to score with.
However, I cannot stress this enough. Running a warphost formation mitigates the warp storm table to an incredible degree. I lost one game because a 4 came up on the warp storm table, meaning that even through I was rerolling saves, going from a 3+ to a 4+ on the tzeentch prince killed him. In two games I rolled a 3, causing 2 wounds in one instance and killing another prince in another game. When you only have 6 models, losing a prince to bad luck can easily cost you the game.
The tetrad is a lot better at 2k and 2500 than 1850. There is a reason you don't see it winning at big events.
Hm sorry to hear that =(. Is it only the Units you need for scoring? What were the main problems you had? Which armies did you face?
What would you change for your next tourney?
And my last question is: Please can you write a battle report about your tourney?^^
tetrad suffer of same limits any other demonic flying circus suffer, too few pieces, i m using a 16WC list so i have two troops with obj secure and i can summon what i need (often screamers), burning skyhost cost too much for standard game, it did not fit at 1850pts, the best build i found for it is with murder horde+kairos, fast good melee power, some WC and decent endurance.
Darksider wrote: Hm sorry to hear that =(. Is it only the Units you need for scoring? What were the main problems you had? Which armies did you face?
What would you change for your next tourney?
And my last question is: Please can you write a battle report about your tourney?^^
Practice Game One : Tetrad vs Tetrad
In this practice game, my opponent brought the Cabal to my two knights. He was able to vastly out-psychic me during the game, but had no tools to take down the knights. Over the course of the game I was able to target the princes I needed and kill them with the knights.
Practice Game Two : White Scars Hunting Force
In the second practice game I went against a White Scars and Space Wolf death star and murdered it. This is where the tetrad really shines, as it's a great counter to a death star. Null zone and grav killed the Tzeentch prince on turn one, but the other 3 princes were able to wipe out the death star on the bottom of one.
Tourney Game One : Tau Riptide Wing
My opponent in this game had 7 riptides, one commander with maker lights and a lone suit. He was able to put out an incredible amount of firepower and completely wrecked the two knights. The tetrad assaulted him on turn 3 and by turn 4 he was tabled. Riptide squads fall to the tetrad, as they lose combat by 3-5 and just get swept off the board.
Tourney Game Two : Warp Spider Spam
My opponent this game had 41 warp spiders, a wraithknight, two D cannons and 3 squads of scat bikes. On turn one, I moved to the center of the table with the Tzeench prince and cast cursed earth on 3 dice. He had a perils with the power, failed his FNP, failed his LD and was removed from play. The rest of the game went downhill from there. His warp spiders could not hurt the princes, since the princes had such high inits. I was either wiping one warp spider squad per turn with each prince or bringing it down to 1-2 men left.
In this game, I also rolled a 3 on the warp storm table, and the Slaanesh prince did 3 wounds to himself.
He was able to slowly whittle the knights down, as well as the other princes. If I did not lose the Tzeentch prince on turn one, both my opponent and I expect I would have won this game. I had all the right powers/gifts to walk right over his army.
Tourney Game Three : Eldar Gunline
This army consisted of scat bikes, a warp hunter, two hornets and a few warp spiders. My opponent got very lucky with his D shots, and his rolling in general. I got rather unlucky with gifts and powers, getting little or no durability enhancements. He went first and it was not night fighting. He killed two princes and one knight on turn one. On the top of turn 2, he killed the other 2 princes and the last knight. Getting tabled on the top of two was not a good way to end the day.
Tourney Game Four : Gladius
In this game, I played a gladius style list with dark angels. He kept feeding my army squads of tanks and troops. By the end of the game, he ran out of squads to feed me, and I was able to get the objectives. In this game the nurgle prince died with a 3 rolled on the warp storm table. Both knights died to melta shots and melta bombs.
In this game my warlord trait was harnessing on a 3+ so I was able to cast summon and incursion a number of times on 4 dice each. This helped me to hold objectives that were otherwise lost to me.
Tourney Game Five: Renegades
In this game my opponent had 7 wyverns in a VSG, one bloodthirster, a squad of zombies, 10 TL lascannons, some screamers with a herald in them, and a squad of horrors. He assaulted and wrecked one knight with his bloodthirster, and then I showed him how good the balesword was against D-thirsters. He sacrificed his horrors to create another D-Thirster, which my nurgle prince had to stop before it killed other princes. To kill it, I had to go through terrain, which means we both swung at I1, and both the second thirster and the nurgle prince died.
That sacrifice was the key difference in the game. If I had one more prince to hit his lines, I would have been able to wipe his army, but instead there was just not quite enough to do the job. By turn five, he killed everything but the Tzeentch prince.
MVP
The nurgle prince, hands down was the MVP for all the games. The balesword and shrouded are complete money. When it came to killing Riptides, Librarians, D-Thirsters, and Wraithknights, the nurgle prince was my go-to guy.
Knights
The knights were extremely lackluster. In 6 out of 7 games, my opponents had exactly the right tools to take them down. Doing 6 HP to AV 12 is not that hard. While a D sword sounds good, 4 attacks is just lackluster when your hitting on 4s. The stomps are nice, but not guaranteed. WKs are so much better for the same cost as these assault knights.
Because the knights died so easily, it ment that every game was an uphill battle. If I had something like a burning skyhost instead, I could have applied pressure and had a lot more units to score with.
Warp Storm Table
The table really worked against me this tourney -- and is a big problem for daemon players without proper mitigation. In three games the warp storm table screwed me by either hurting or killing a prince, or lowering my save seriously weakening my army. An incursion would have helped to mitigate that issue greatly. My normal ITC list has fatey as well, so the warp storm table is the thing I look forward to each turn.
Darksider wrote: Hm sorry to hear that =(. Is it only the Units you need for scoring? What were the main problems you had? Which armies did you face?
What would you change for your next tourney?
And my last question is: Please can you write a battle report about your tourney?^^
Practice Game One : Tetrad vs Tetrad
In this practice game, my opponent brought the Cabal to my two knights. He was able to vastly out-psychic me during the game, but had no tools to take down the knights. Over the course of the game I was able to target the princes I needed and kill them with the knights.
Practice Game Two : White Scars Hunting Force
In the second practice game I went against a White Scars and Space Wolf death star and murdered it. This is where the tetrad really shines, as it's a great counter to a death star. Null zone and grav killed the Tzeentch prince on turn one, but the other 3 princes were able to wipe out the death star on the bottom of one.
Tourney Game One : Tau Riptide Wing
My opponent in this game had 7 riptides, one commander with maker lights and a lone suit. He was able to put out an incredible amount of firepower and completely wrecked the two knights. The tetrad assaulted him on turn 3 and by turn 4 he was tabled. Riptide squads fall to the tetrad, as they lose combat by 3-5 and just get swept off the board.
Tourney Game Two : Warp Spider Spam
My opponent this game had 41 warp spiders, a wraithknight, two D cannons and 3 squads of scat bikes. On turn one, I moved to the center of the table with the Tzeench prince and cast cursed earth on 3 dice. He had a perils with the power, failed his FNP, failed his LD and was removed from play. The rest of the game went downhill from there. His warp spiders could not hurt the princes, since the princes had such high inits. I was either wiping one warp spider squad per turn with each prince or bringing it down to 1-2 men left.
In this game, I also rolled a 3 on the warp storm table, and the Slaanesh prince did 3 wounds to himself.
He was able to slowly whittle the knights down, as well as the other princes. If I did not lose the Tzeentch prince on turn one, both my opponent and I expect I would have won this game. I had all the right powers/gifts to walk right over his army.
Tourney Game Three : Eldar Gunline
This army consisted of scat bikes, a warp hunter, two hornets and a few warp spiders. My opponent got very lucky with his D shots, and his rolling in general. I got rather unlucky with gifts and powers, getting little or no durability enhancements. He went first and it was not night fighting. He killed two princes and one knight on turn one. On the top of turn 2, he killed the other 2 princes and the last knight. Getting tabled on the top of two was not a good way to end the day.
Tourney Game Four : Gladius
In this game, I played a gladius style list with dark angels. He kept feeding my army squads of tanks and troops. By the end of the game, he ran out of squads to feed me, and I was able to get the objectives. In this game the nurgle prince died with a 3 rolled on the warp storm table. Both knights died to melta shots and melta bombs.
In this game my warlord trait was harnessing on a 3+ so I was able to cast summon and incursion a number of times on 4 dice each. This helped me to hold objectives that were otherwise lost to me.
Tourney Game Five: Renegades
In this game my opponent had 7 wyverns in a VSG, one bloodthirster, a squad of zombies, 10 TL lascannons, some screamers with a herald in them, and a squad of horrors. He assaulted and wrecked one knight with his bloodthirster, and then I showed him how good the balesword was against D-thirsters. He sacrificed his horrors to create another D-Thirster, which my nurgle prince had to stop before it killed other princes. To kill it, I had to go through terrain, which means we both swung at I1, and both the second thirster and the nurgle prince died.
That sacrifice was the key difference in the game. If I had one more prince to hit his lines, I would have been able to wipe his army, but instead there was just not quite enough to do the job. By turn five, he killed everything but the Tzeentch prince.
MVP
The nurgle prince, hands down was the MVP for all the games. The balesword and shrouded are complete money. When it came to killing Riptides, Librarians, D-Thirsters, and Wraithknights, the nurgle prince was my go-to guy.
Knights
The knights were extremely lackluster. In 6 out of 7 games, my opponents had exactly the right tools to take them down. Doing 6 HP to AV 12 is not that hard. While a D sword sounds good, 4 attacks is just lackluster when your hitting on 4s. The stomps are nice, but not guaranteed. WKs are so much better for the same cost as these assault knights.
Because the knights died so easily, it ment that every game was an uphill battle. If I had something like a burning skyhost instead, I could have applied pressure and had a lot more units to score with.
Warp Storm Table
The table really worked against me this tourney -- and is a big problem for daemon players without proper mitigation. In three games the warp storm table screwed me by either hurting or killing a prince, or lowering my save seriously weakening my army. An incursion would have helped to mitigate that issue greatly. My normal ITC list has fatey as well, so the warp storm table is the thing I look forward to each turn.
Against that elder that tabled you, since you didn't roll the desired gifts you should of just reserved most of your army if your opponent has first turn. Deploy only the Nurgle prince and hide him inside a ruin out of LOS.
Darksider wrote: You're right, but there are one Flying Circus list that isn't that bad.
Nurgle Circus with 3 Princes, GUO, Fatey and 2x11 Horrors.
How does your list look like?
I am with you that skyhost is to expensive with tetrad for standard games, but how do you fit Kairos with Murderhost and Tetrad into 1850 Points?
I don't get it, it also is to expensive with kairos or the tetrad for a 1850 Point Game or is it for a 2000 point Game?
my list play
D thirster with 1 greater rew 1 exalted
Kairos
3x11 horrors
DP tz, wings armor 2 greater 1 lesser 3°lev impossible robe
Be'lakor
10 cultisti
helldrake with baleflamer
i didn't say i play kairos+murderhost with tetrad, i meant play burning skyhost with murderhorde+kairos....
Darksider wrote: Hm sorry to hear that =(. Is it only the Units you need for scoring? What were the main problems you had? Which armies did you face?
What would you change for your next tourney?
And my last question is: Please can you write a battle report about your tourney?^^
Practice Game One : Tetrad vs Tetrad
In this practice game, my opponent brought the Cabal to my two knights. He was able to vastly out-psychic me during the game, but had no tools to take down the knights. Over the course of the game I was able to target the princes I needed and kill them with the knights.
Practice Game Two : White Scars Hunting Force
In the second practice game I went against a White Scars and Space Wolf death star and murdered it. This is where the tetrad really shines, as it's a great counter to a death star. Null zone and grav killed the Tzeentch prince on turn one, but the other 3 princes were able to wipe out the death star on the bottom of one.
Tourney Game One : Tau Riptide Wing
My opponent in this game had 7 riptides, one commander with maker lights and a lone suit. He was able to put out an incredible amount of firepower and completely wrecked the two knights. The tetrad assaulted him on turn 3 and by turn 4 he was tabled. Riptide squads fall to the tetrad, as they lose combat by 3-5 and just get swept off the board.
Tourney Game Two : Warp Spider Spam
My opponent this game had 41 warp spiders, a wraithknight, two D cannons and 3 squads of scat bikes. On turn one, I moved to the center of the table with the Tzeench prince and cast cursed earth on 3 dice. He had a perils with the power, failed his FNP, failed his LD and was removed from play. The rest of the game went downhill from there. His warp spiders could not hurt the princes, since the princes had such high inits. I was either wiping one warp spider squad per turn with each prince or bringing it down to 1-2 men left.
In this game, I also rolled a 3 on the warp storm table, and the Slaanesh prince did 3 wounds to himself.
He was able to slowly whittle the knights down, as well as the other princes. If I did not lose the Tzeentch prince on turn one, both my opponent and I expect I would have won this game. I had all the right powers/gifts to walk right over his army.
Tourney Game Three : Eldar Gunline
This army consisted of scat bikes, a warp hunter, two hornets and a few warp spiders. My opponent got very lucky with his D shots, and his rolling in general. I got rather unlucky with gifts and powers, getting little or no durability enhancements. He went first and it was not night fighting. He killed two princes and one knight on turn one. On the top of turn 2, he killed the other 2 princes and the last knight. Getting tabled on the top of two was not a good way to end the day.
Tourney Game Four : Gladius
In this game, I played a gladius style list with dark angels. He kept feeding my army squads of tanks and troops. By the end of the game, he ran out of squads to feed me, and I was able to get the objectives. In this game the nurgle prince died with a 3 rolled on the warp storm table. Both knights died to melta shots and melta bombs.
In this game my warlord trait was harnessing on a 3+ so I was able to cast summon and incursion a number of times on 4 dice each. This helped me to hold objectives that were otherwise lost to me.
Tourney Game Five: Renegades
In this game my opponent had 7 wyverns in a VSG, one bloodthirster, a squad of zombies, 10 TL lascannons, some screamers with a herald in them, and a squad of horrors. He assaulted and wrecked one knight with his bloodthirster, and then I showed him how good the balesword was against D-thirsters. He sacrificed his horrors to create another D-Thirster, which my nurgle prince had to stop before it killed other princes. To kill it, I had to go through terrain, which means we both swung at I1, and both the second thirster and the nurgle prince died.
That sacrifice was the key difference in the game. If I had one more prince to hit his lines, I would have been able to wipe his army, but instead there was just not quite enough to do the job. By turn five, he killed everything but the Tzeentch prince.
MVP
The nurgle prince, hands down was the MVP for all the games. The balesword and shrouded are complete money. When it came to killing Riptides, Librarians, D-Thirsters, and Wraithknights, the nurgle prince was my go-to guy.
Knights
The knights were extremely lackluster. In 6 out of 7 games, my opponents had exactly the right tools to take them down. Doing 6 HP to AV 12 is not that hard. While a D sword sounds good, 4 attacks is just lackluster when your hitting on 4s. The stomps are nice, but not guaranteed. WKs are so much better for the same cost as these assault knights.
Because the knights died so easily, it ment that every game was an uphill battle. If I had something like a burning skyhost instead, I could have applied pressure and had a lot more units to score with.
Warp Storm Table
The table really worked against me this tourney -- and is a big problem for daemon players without proper mitigation. In three games the warp storm table screwed me by either hurting or killing a prince, or lowering my save seriously weakening my army. An incursion would have helped to mitigate that issue greatly. My normal ITC list has fatey as well, so the warp storm table is the thing I look forward to each turn.
Against that elder that tabled you, since you didn't roll the desired gifts you should of just reserved most of your army if your opponent has first turn. Deploy only the Nurgle prince and hide him inside a ruin out of LOS.
your interesting battle report shows clearly why will be hard see a tetrad going well in major tourney, just a bad roll on warp storm and you f......ed, or just lucky opponent with D weapons, is just too dangerous play nothing against warp storm bad rolls....i know it myself
Btw nice list, but why the exalted on the D-Thirster?
I also think that a bad warpstorm really f***s up the Tetrad, but maybe we should try to fit it into an complete Daemonic Incursion, instead of playing only the Tetrad Formation?
SonsofVulkan wrote: Against that elder that tabled you, since you didn't roll the desired gifts you should of just reserved most of your army if your opponent has first turn. Deploy only the Nurgle prince and hide him inside a ruin out of LOS.
And get tabled piecemeal?
The result would have been the same. That just illustrated why the tetrad + knights is not a good list for tourneys.
By all means, feel free to prove me wrong. NOVA is coming up around the corner. I would love to see the tetrad list place in the top 10.
Darksider wrote: I also think that a bad warpstorm really f***s up the Tetrad, but maybe we should try to fit it into an complete Daemonic Incursion, instead of playing only the Tetrad Formation?
At 1850 your really limited here. You can bring a tallyband of mostly nurglings, but then your tetrad does not have great support. Nurglings also just are a bit lackluster in a meta where every second army you play with be either Tau or Eldar. Even with a 2+ save, scat bikes just double out nurglings. With perfect timing, the nurglings just evaporate.
At 2k, you can squeeze in a warpflame host, and now your cooking! The warpflame host can offer a lot of psychic support for the tetrad, giving more chances for cursed earth, etc. It also can act as a summoning base to create more units, or a firepower base to throw out lots of shots. The +2 STR on all the Tzeentch powers is actually pretty beefy. (Assuming you have the loci of conjuring).
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blackmage wrote: your interesting battle report shows clearly why will be hard see a tetrad going well in major tourney, just a bad roll on warp storm and you f......ed, or just lucky opponent with D weapons, is just too dangerous play nothing against warp storm bad rolls....i know it myself
Yep. For a 3 round tourney, a Tetrad list can win. It's quite possible to not have that 'bad game' over the course of 3 rounds. If you are playing 5 or 6 rounds, the chances of getting knocked out of the running drops dramatically.
For casual games, it does not matter. You can have a bad game 1/4 of the time. Winning in 3/4 of your games might seem like the list is kicking ass -- which it can, especially against the right matchup.
Btw nice list, but why the exalted on the D-Thirster?
I also think that a bad warpstorm really f***s up the Tetrad, but maybe we should try to fit it into an complete Daemonic Incursion, instead of playing only the Tetrad Formation?
i have exalted on D thirster cause TZ Dp already have the robe and you cant have two artifacts ( i use exalted for grimorie) on same model.If i will take out robe, i def put the exalted on Dp
SonsofVulkan wrote: Against that elder that tabled you, since you didn't roll the desired gifts you should of just reserved most of your army if your opponent has first turn. Deploy only the Nurgle prince and hide him inside a ruin out of LOS.
And get tabled piecemeal?
The result would have been the same. That just illustrated why the tetrad + knights is not a good list for tourneys.
By all means, feel free to prove me wrong. NOVA is coming up around the corner. I would love to see the tetrad list place in the top 10.
Darksider wrote: I also think that a bad warpstorm really f***s up the Tetrad, but maybe we should try to fit it into an complete Daemonic Incursion, instead of playing only the Tetrad Formation?
At 1850 your really limited here. You can bring a tallyband of mostly nurglings, but then your tetrad does not have great support. Nurglings also just are a bit lackluster in a meta where every second army you play with be either Tau or Eldar. Even with a 2+ save, scat bikes just double out nurglings. With perfect timing, the nurglings just evaporate.
At 2k, you can squeeze in a warpflame host, and now your cooking! The warpflame host can offer a lot of psychic support for the tetrad, giving more chances for cursed earth, etc. It also can act as a summoning base to create more units, or a firepower base to throw out lots of shots. The +2 STR on all the Tzeentch powers is actually pretty beefy. (Assuming you have the loci of conjuring).
Automatically Appended Next Post:
blackmage wrote: your interesting battle report shows clearly why will be hard see a tetrad going well in major tourney, just a bad roll on warp storm and you f......ed, or just lucky opponent with D weapons, is just too dangerous play nothing against warp storm bad rolls....i know it myself
Yep. For a 3 round tourney, a Tetrad list can win. It's quite possible to not have that 'bad game' over the course of 3 rounds. If you are playing 5 or 6 rounds, the chances of getting knocked out of the running drops dramatically.
For casual games, it does not matter. You can have a bad game 1/4 of the time. Winning in 3/4 of your games might seem like the list is kicking ass -- which it can, especially against the right matchup.
The guy that won a major GT with daemons last year had just as low model counts compared to the Tetra, basically 2 CADs, I think Fatey, D-thirster, Tz DP, heldrake, and some horrors. But most Importantly he brought a bastion with comms relay. The biggest problem with any low model count armies is getting alpha striked into oblivion. Tetra can do well at a major GT, they just need the right supporting assets.
And I think the Tz and Nurgle DPs can start on the board and survive most alpha strikes. Also ITC GTs tend to be very terrain heavy.
Spiky Norman wrote: What does your general experience from play say about Warp-forged Armour on the Slaanesh and Nurgle prince?
Is it a must? Somewhat useful? Better to spend the points elsewhere?
I am asking from a meta with plenty of Marines, Tau and Eldar, if that helps answering it.
I've been leaving it off the Slaanesh and Nurgle princes and I've not missed it.
The marines will shoot at your tzeentch or khorne prince anyway, so it's not like your 'denying the 3+ save' target.
late to the party on this one, but oh god why would you ever be so evil as to bring a tetrad and a destroyer cult? That is just evil!
@labmouse42
My main army has been slowly shifting from daemons to renegades. Those TW lascannon artillery are one of the bread and butter units of our army. for 80pt you get 3 of them. I just completed my 3rd unit. Do they down knights as fast in play as they do in theory? Also, by the sound of that list, I think I have chatted with your opponent in one of the R&H groups I am in. 7 wyverns.. damn, people give me the stink eye for owning 2 of them! Though I do have 8 earthshaker/meduesa artillery.
I can't bring myself to buy a VSG, I feel like that will be the final nail in my R&H going full cheese mode.
jy2 wrote: The problem here is that defensive buffs are more important than offensive ones.
This is actually a point in favour of Corruption, since it means you can still have a good weapon without needing to sacrifice one of your 2 greater rewards and therefore, survivability.
I still think 2 greaters and using one for the balesword is better, but corruption does have its place, even if it it extremely niche.
I'd rather use my points elsewhere. To me, Corruption is like the sprinkles on top of my strawberry Sunday. It makes it look pretty but is totally unnecessary. The Sunday still tastes just as good without.
jy2 wrote: 7. infernal tetrad+ screamer formation - 8.5. This is potentially a very good build if you can fit all of that in. 2K is doable but unfortunately, I don't think you can do it at 1850 (assuming the Burning Skyhost formation). This is my favorite of all the builds you have listed. Too bad it won't work at 1850.
You --could-- make it fit with a 1245 tetrad. That's what I ran over this weekend, and it was not the tetrad that was the weak point, it was the two knights I brought.
If you bring 27 screamers, a 45 point herald, and a 25 point disc, you have 1245 points left over for the tetrad. The burning host will run you 745.
Unlike the two knights, it gives you a lot more units to score with.
However, I cannot stress this enough. Running a warphost formation mitigates the warp storm table to an incredible degree. I lost one game because a 4 came up on the warp storm table, meaning that even through I was rerolling saves, going from a 3+ to a 4+ on the tzeentch prince killed him. In two games I rolled a 3, causing 2 wounds in one instance and killing another prince in another game. When you only have 6 models, losing a prince to bad luck can easily cost you the game.
The tetrad is a lot better at 2k and 2500 than 1850. There is a reason you don't see it winning at big events.
Any Daemon army without a way to mitigate the Warpstorm is not a top-tier Daemon army. Yes, it can still excel at times. However, over a period of 5-7 games (as in a GT), the Warp Storm is bound to screw you over and then you're out of the running to win the event.
To be a top Daemon army, you need either the Incursion or Fatey. The best ones will actually run both.
gwarsh41 wrote: late to the party on this one, but oh god why would you ever be so evil as to bring a tetrad and a destroyer cult? That is just evil!
@labmouse42
My main army has been slowly shifting from daemons to renegades. Those TW lascannon artillery are one of the bread and butter units of our army. for 80pt you get 3 of them. I just completed my 3rd unit. Do they down knights as fast in play as they do in theory? Also, by the sound of that list, I think I have chatted with your opponent in one of the R&H groups I am in. 7 wyverns.. damn, people give me the stink eye for owning 2 of them! Though I do have 8 earthshaker/meduesa artillery.
I can't bring myself to buy a VSG, I feel like that will be the final nail in my R&H going full cheese mode.
Don't worry. Soon enough the VSG will be going the way of the Dodo. You won't see them around for very much longer.
What I see a lot of artillery-heavy Renegade players bring, though, is the Skyshield.
honestly the best way i think this could work is by putting the tetrad in the tallband or the flayer troupe in the demonic incursion, it gives some kind of warpstorm control and a poor man's obsec
-v10mega wrote: I dont have the list right now, but going from memory:
1. fleshed out tetrad+ necrosis the undying+ 5x15 zombies and 1x10 zombies (spread out the zombies into one big line and push while grabbing objs.)
2. decent tet+ skyhost (i can still make this work)
3. decent tet+ calvacade for super fast and rending
decent tet= decently fleshed out
and a side note: any1 think that the d axe and the rampage item from the rewards is a good idea? i think i like it more than the armour of scorn
Can you run a zombie army without Typhus? Zombies are not great for objective-hunting because they are just too slow.
And what points do you play at? Some of these lists won't work in many US tournaments, which are usually at 1850 or less.
You only take the Blade of Blood if you get another junk Greater Reward (like Armourbane/Fleshbane or 3+ for your D-Thirster). With your D-Thirster, defensive > offensive powers (as you're already toting a D-weapon). Your goal should be to make him more durable, not to make him more killy.
Can you run a zombie army without Typhus? Zombies are not great for objective-hunting because they are just too slow.
And what points do you play at? Some of these lists won't work in many US tournaments, which are usually at 1850 or less.
You only take the Blade of Blood if you get another junk Greater Reward (like Armourbane/Fleshbane or 3+ for your D-Thirster). With your D-Thirster, defensive > offensive powers (as you're already toting a D-weapon). Your goal should be to make him more durable, not to make him more killy.
i play 1850 and looking towards finishing my exams that are this week and start going competitve. you can run zombies if you take necrosius which is a nurgle sorcerer that is half the points of typhus.
once i go on break from studying and start watching signals ill post my three lists.
gwarsh41 wrote: Do they down knights as fast in play as they do in theory? Also, by the sound of that list, I think I have chatted with your opponent in one of the R&H groups I am in. 7 wyverns.. damn, people give me the stink eye for owning 2 of them! Though I do have 8 earthshaker/meduesa artillery.
I can't bring myself to buy a VSG, I feel like that will be the final nail in my R&H going full cheese mode.
Yes they did.
With the FAQ changes to the VSG coming up, there is less of a need to take it IMHO.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
-v10mega wrote: any1 think that the d axe and the rampage item from the rewards is a good idea? i think i like it more than the armour of scorn
In most cases the Axe of Khorne will do the same job as the Daxe will.
On 6's with the Axe of Khorne you are ID'ing on 6s instead of D'ing on 6s. Lets compare the three cases.
* If you are hitting a target without EW and is not a GC, then one wound will kill the model outright. The Daxe will only be doing D3 wounds unless another 6 is rolled.
* If you are hitting a target that is a GC, then the ID weapon will be doing d3 wounds, just like the Daxe, unless another 6 is rolled.
* If you are hitting a target with EW, then the Daxe is better.
In most cases, the Axe of Khorne will do the job as well as the Daxe (since you have a 1/36 chance of getting 2 sixes in a row). In some cases the Axe of Khorne will do better, like against a BT.
The best thing about the Axe of Khorne is that it's 10 points, and you still can bring 2 greaters AND the armor of scorn. It's a win-win.
I usually wind up getting the Axe and Blade on the Khorne prince, since 25% of the time will I get two defensive rewards. This means in assault he has 5 base + 1 extra specialist weapon + d3 rampage attacks + 1 charging = 8-10 attacks on the charge. He completely wrecks units he runs into.
@labmouse: Great report. I agree with most of your conclusions. Tetrad needs more support than two knights can provide. One rules question though: Why did you roll LD on the Tzeentch Prince after a perils? By my reading, the Impossible Robes test only applies after failing a save and not after wounds that never allowed the save to occur.
I don't know how much this affects infernal tetrad but I've been running a LoC as my warlord with impossible robes and absolutely loving it. I did pretty well at this last tournament with it but I was lucky. I got the +1 invul warlord trait in 4/5 games. He's in a CAD so I have re-roll and I re-roll everything that's not a 3, its just sooo much better than any other trait.
I played against the tetrad a couple and what I saw was that it is really really scared of anything that can take away its invul. I had a unit of blood letters kill two princes that had their invul turned to a 6+ with grimoire.
I play with belakor and I just find that even with shrouding he just gets picked off by anything with a decent amount of attacks. I have a feeling thats the case with daemon princes as well.
It seems like you need more threats to assault someone turn 2. I think an invisible d -thirster would fit in nicely with that honestly. Either that or the burning skyhost like was mentioned earlier.
It really seems to struggle against other daemons, tau, and grav + hunters eye, and shooty eldar.
That's a whole lot of popular builds to struggle against. :(
PanzerLeader wrote: @labmouse: Great report. I agree with most of your conclusions. Tetrad needs more support than two knights can provide. One rules question though: Why did you roll LD on the Tzeentch Prince after a perils? By my reading, the Impossible Robes test only applies after failing a save and not after wounds that never allowed the save to occur.
Agreed. He shouldn't have had to take a LD after a failed Perils.
PanzerLeader wrote: @labmouse: Great report. I agree with most of your conclusions. Tetrad needs more support than two knights can provide. One rules question though: Why did you roll LD on the Tzeentch Prince after a perils? By my reading, the Impossible Robes test only applies after failing a save and not after wounds that never allowed the save to occur.
Agreed. He shouldn't have had to take a LD after a failed Perils.
I don't think so, it specifies "suffers an unsaved wound" I think the perils would qualify.
if i want play a flying circus anyway i will go for "traditional" list, as i posted above, i really dont like to go at tourney and be screwed by warp storm, had too much bad experiences with it in past, the only tetrad i played was the version with tz+N heralds and horror+plaguebearers as CAD, more WC. some ground support with obj sec troops.
one of best demon list i tried was murder horde+burning skyhost and kairos, it perform so good against three of mayor threats Gladius,eldar scatter bike and Tau, too fast too much targets and some summoning power if needed.
PanzerLeader wrote: @labmouse: Great report. I agree with most of your conclusions. Tetrad needs more support than two knights can provide. One rules question though: Why did you roll LD on the Tzeentch Prince after a perils? By my reading, the Impossible Robes test only applies after failing a save and not after wounds that never allowed the save to occur.
Agreed. He shouldn't have had to take a LD after a failed Perils.
I don't think so, it specifies "suffers an unsaved wound" I think the perils would qualify.
Unsaved meaning that you failed a save (or was denied a save due to the weapon's AP). With Perils, you don't even get a save.
It guess it could be a grey area depending on how one interprets it.
ok so i think my points are off cause according to some people this does not work, after all i did do this on battle scribe so i might be wrong, but i think the zombies/cavalcade is the better choice, but i like the skyhost
On 6's with the Axe of Khorne you are ID'ing on 6s instead of D'ing on 6s. Lets compare the three cases.
* If you are hitting a target without EW and is not a GC, then one wound will kill the model outright. The Daxe will only be doing D3 wounds unless another 6 is rolled.
* If you are hitting a target that is a GC, then the ID weapon will be doing d3 wounds, just like the Daxe, unless another 6 is rolled.
* If you are hitting a target with EW, then the Daxe is better.
In most cases, the Axe of Khorne will do the job as well as the Daxe (since you have a 1/36 chance of getting 2 sixes in a row). In some cases the Axe of Khorne will do better, like against a BT.
The best thing about the Axe of Khorne is that it's 10 points, and you still can bring 2 greaters AND the armor of scorn. It's a win-win.
I usually wind up getting the Axe and Blade on the Khorne prince, since 25% of the time will I get two defensive rewards. This means in assault he has 5 base + 1 extra specialist weapon + d3 rampage attacks + 1 charging = 8-10 attacks on the charge. He completely wrecks units he runs into.
You left off vehicle comparisons too though. Personally, I was usually using my khorne prince and belakor to tackle imperial knights and other tough vehicles because the instant death is useless there but getting the d3 hullpoints was usually sufficient to wipe out armor values.
PanzerLeader wrote: @labmouse: Great report. I agree with most of your conclusions. Tetrad needs more support than two knights can provide. One rules question though: Why did you roll LD on the Tzeentch Prince after a perils? By my reading, the Impossible Robes test only applies after failing a save and not after wounds that never allowed the save to occur.
My codex says "Anytime the wearer suffers an unsaved wound" If it just said "Anytime the wearer suffers an wound" people would say he had to make a LD test every time a wound was done before it was saved.
I guess it's a matter of interpretation. It's also possibly a codex difference, as there are at least two different versions out there.
PanzerLeader wrote: @labmouse: Great report. I agree with most of your conclusions. Tetrad needs more support than two knights can provide. One rules question though: Why did you roll LD on the Tzeentch Prince after a perils? By my reading, the Impossible Robes test only applies after failing a save and not after wounds that never allowed the save to occur.
My codex says "Anytime the wearer suffers an unsaved wound" If it just said "Anytime the wearer suffers an wound" people would say he had to make a LD test every time a wound was done before it was saved.
I guess it's a matter of interpretation. It's also possibly a codex difference, as there are at least two different versions out there.
Unfortunately it's still an unsaved wound even if you don't get a saving roll in the first place. If the robes said "Anytime the wearer fails a save" there would be a case, but as it stands you still have to do the Ld test after a wound from perils. I'd feel bad trying to argue otherwise to an opponent tbh.
Ive been putting off updating my daemons for a while, but thinking of doing it soon. I want to run an incursion style list either way, but I'm back and forth between a Tetrad based list, or a Murderhorde for my core. Which has more bite?
PanzerLeader wrote: @labmouse: Great report. I agree with most of your conclusions. Tetrad needs more support than two knights can provide. One rules question though: Why did you roll LD on the Tzeentch Prince after a perils? By my reading, the Impossible Robes test only applies after failing a save and not after wounds that never allowed the save to occur.
My codex says "Anytime the wearer suffers an unsaved wound" If it just said "Anytime the wearer suffers an wound" people would say he had to make a LD test every time a wound was done before it was saved.
I guess it's a matter of interpretation. It's also possibly a codex difference, as there are at least two different versions out there.
Unfortunately it's still an unsaved wound even if you don't get a saving roll in the first place. If the robes said "Anytime the wearer fails a save" there would be a case, but as it stands you still have to do the Ld test after a wound from perils. I'd feel bad trying to argue otherwise to an opponent tbh.
I was actually playing RG when this came up and gave the demon player the benefit of the more favorable reading. If it matters, I'd clarify before hand with the TO. The rule set is not so well defined that all wounds suffered are automatically "unsaved wounds" and there is room for multiple readings. I also submitted the question to the 40KFAQs.
I think you're wasting the time of the FAQ team tbh. It's not in the same league as "Does reroll 1s allow you to reroll scatter dice" but if you really think it's ambiguous then ok.
I'd say it's a question of "Did you save the wound?" If No, then by definition it's an Unsaved wound.
I can't see the "unsaved wound" issue any other way than this: Daemon with robes has wounds allocated to it --> Make saves if possible/take wounds if not --> Take FNP if possible ---> any wounds NOW counts as "unsaved wounds", take LD test for Robes.
Remember that even though FNP is NOT a save, it causes "unsaved wounds" to count as "saved wounds"
Tonberry7 wrote:I think you're wasting the time of the FAQ team tbh. It's not in the same league as "Does reroll 1s allow you to reroll scatter dice" but if you really think it's ambiguous then ok.
I'd say it's a question of "Did you save the wound?" If No, then by definition it's an Unsaved wound.
Galef wrote:I can't see the "unsaved wound" issue any other way than this:
Daemon with robes has wounds allocated to it --> Make saves if possible/take wounds if not --> Take FNP if possible ---> any wounds NOW counts as "unsaved wounds", take LD test for Robes.
Remember that even though FNP is NOT a save, it causes "unsaved wounds" to count as "saved wounds"
I see what you are both saying and I agree with it to an extent. I don't think the intent though was for the demon prince to incur the negatives of the wargear in situations where is not allowed to use its benefits (i.e. Perils). It falls in the same category to me as the Tetrad warlord traits: when you roll the +1 to save trait, does each prince get +1 to their invulnerable save or does the warlord receive a total of +4 to his invulnerable save? The intent certainly seems to be the former but by RAW it would be the latter.
I'll be ordering a skyshield tonight most likely for my R&H, should be very useful to have around. ++4 invul will be very handy. Might also be fun to have a tetrad+ R&H army.
As for Necrosius, his zombies are NON COMPULSORY. So you still need 2 cultist units, though his zombies are awesome, as they are vraks zombies! (agrument being that CSM zombies are cultists that become zombies, a special rule only typhus has, necrosius does not have this rule. He must take the unit, plague zombies, found in Siege of Vraks, where his rules are)
I have a list that is:
Tetrad - 1315pt
Vraks - PURGE::
Command squad 4x3 spawn
3x3 rapier laser destroyers
Comes out to 1817. I could drop 9pt from each eapier, or swap a spawn unit for another rapier, or earthshaker... Rapiers would give me the anti armor and anti knight oomph. Spawn would be some nice fast objective takers. 55pt for 3 is a steal. The Purge lets you take up to 6 elites.
For extra theme, you could do a purge with command squad. 6 units of spawn, and 2 giant spawn. Giant spawn act on their own, so its 2 more units running around. They wont post as big of a threat as the daemon princes, but left unchecked they are still dangerous. 6 units of spawn running around with the tetrad could be very awesome as well.
I, and other R&H players have had great luck with spawn spam, but its usually backed up by more guns than a tau army. So I am not sure how well it would do with the tetrad. Using them to snag objectives and take out smaller units would be nice though. Giant spawn could take out elite units too.
As for the robes and FnP, previous to FaQ, and post FaQ, all "on unsaved wound" things seem to be post FnP and RP rolls. Helfrost being a specific one of them. Previously it was at the same time, now it is after.
Ive been putting off updating my daemons for a while, but thinking of doing it soon. I want to run an incursion style list either way, but I'm back and forth between a Tetrad based list, or a Murderhorde for my core. Which has more bite?
I wasn't sure about the Tetrad at first, but now that I've tried it a couple of times I'd have to say it's a strong option, especially if you take it as part of a Daemonic Incursion detachment. If you beef up your princes with the appropriate relics, rewards and ML, you can end up with multiple FMC that are nigh unkillable and beasts in CC as well. In my last game my Tzeentch DP warlord ended up with a rerollable 2++ and then a 4+ FNP.
The formation bonuses are also a lot stronger than I first thought. +1T prevents ID from S10 weapons, the +1S is always useful, and the reroll 1s To Hit means that any witchfires will be hitting on a rerollable 2+ and also helps in CC.
Ideally you can therefore keep them on the ground in most cases and get them into CC asap. The +1/-1 to the Warpstorm from the Detachment benefits is also really useful as it means you don't necessarily have to try and fit Fateweaver into your list as well as 4 expensive DPs
I'm taking the Tetrad to a 1900pt event/practice game on Friday and a 2000pt 3-round event on Saturday: I'll give some feedback on how it goes. So far this year I've been placing in the top 3 positions in the local meta with Daemonkin, and I did pretty well last year with a Nurgle prince flying circus which should be similar style to this list.
So the 2k list is:
Spoiler:
Formation - Infernal Tetrad - Chaos Daemons
WARLORD
DAEMON PRINCE OF TZEENTCH
Mark of Tzeentch
Mastery Level 3
Wings
Hellforged Artefact - Impossible Robe
Lesser Reward
Greater Reward
Greater Reward
DAEMON PRINCE OF NURGLE
Mark of Nurgle
Mastery Level 3
Wings
Greater Reward
Greater Reward
Hellforged Artefact - The Doomsday Bell
DAEMON PRINCE OF SLAANESH
Mark of Slaanesh
Mastery Level 3
Wings
Armour
Exalted Reward
Greater Reward
DAEMON PRINCE OF KHORNE
Mark of Khorne
Wings
Hellforged Artefact - Armor of Scorn
Lesser Reward
Greater Reward
Greater Reward
HQ HERALD OF TZEENTCH
Mastery Level
Hellforged Artefact - Paradox
Disc of Tzeetnch
TROOPS
11 PINK HORROS OF TZEENTCH
Icon
Iridescent Horror
11 PINK HORRORS OF TZEENTCH
Iridescent Horror
FAST ATTACK
5 FLESH HOUNDS OF KHORNE
5 FLESH HOUNDS OF KHORNE
6 SCREAMERS OF TZEENTCH
Its pretty obvious, but the basic set up of rewards + powers is
Spoiler:
- Find a way to give the Warlord +1 Invulnerable - either through Warlord Trait or Cursed Earth. If he doesn't get +1 from trait he goes on Malefic until he does; once he has that 2++ reroll he goes for Shriek and some Biomancy if possible.
- The Khorne prince + Tzeentch prince are the front line combat dudes.
- The Nurgle prince probably goes combat as well, assuming he can get some half-decent powers on Biomancy. No shriek - he's Jinking for saves.
- The Slaanesh prince 99% will be flying. He either takes Portaglyph or Grimoire, and tries to get stuff from Telepathy and Malefic. Shrouding, Invis, Shriek, Cursed Earth, Incursion, Summoning are all viable.
The herald gets Prescience and then fishes for CE/Sac/Incursion
Hounds are there for the turn 2 charge to prevent enemy shooting. No matter how hopeless the combat, they just get in there as a delaying tactic.
Screamers are for ablative wounds on the herald and possible combat ability. Depending on what +Inv buffs I get they can also be used to deny shooting.
I'm not sure about the new powers on Tzeentch/Nurgle/Slaanesh, but my gut feel is that I'm better going for the powers like Shriek, Cursed Earth or Iron arm than fishing among so many witchfires on the other tables.
I've used a Nurgle flying circus to good effect before and this army can hopefully have even more flexibility and durability.
The bad points tend to be:
- Tau armies with Stormsurges, Riptide Wings or whatever tend to mess this up.
- Scatterbike swarms also are fast enough to get away and deadly enough to take down princes easily.
- MSU Mech armies are a pain in the ass to deal with because your only option is to throw a 400pt Daemon Prince into a 50pt transport. Stuff like Battle Company. On the other hand, against these armies I can generally get a few Summons passed to help deal with that problem.
- Any shooting I can get will be welcome. I'm generally loathe to use Witchfires but being able to pop a transport and charge the contents is a whole turn of tempo I gain.
Trasvi wrote: I'm taking the Tetrad to a 1900pt event/practice game on Friday and a 2000pt 3-round event on Saturday: I'll give some feedback on how it goes. So far this year I've been placing in the top 3 positions in the local meta with Daemonkin, and I did pretty well last year with a Nurgle prince flying circus which should be similar style to this list.
A few months ago I wrote up this article on The Care and Feeding of Your Tetrad. You might find some helpful stuff in there. I've played them a lot in the past few months, at a number of RTTs and a GT. Here are my suggestions
* Drop the exalted on your Slaaesh prince. It's tempting to have him swoop all game, but don't. He needs to be in there smashing face with the rest of your princes. Soulstealer is a great option for him.
* 2 greaters on each prince at 2k is pretty much manditory. Otherwise your slaanesh prince will either be plucked off or of very limited use all game.
* Your nurgle prince cannot bring the doomsday bell. It's for heralds only
* Why not take the exalted gift on your herald. Also, I don't think they can take Paradox.
* Why are you getting Iridescent Horrors?
* If your taking a CaD, have you considered a bastion + comms relay. If you don't get turn 1, and don't want to be shot off the board, you can reserve your princes and hide in the bastion.
* Your princes should usually be charging by turn 2, or 3 at the latest -- depending on the board setup.
* Your gut feeling about the new powers is correct.
* Stormsurges are a big problem. The balesword can help here. The balesword also kills D-thirsters dead.
* Scatbike armies might or might not be a problem, depending on your rewards and gifts. If all your princes are shrouded and jinking for a 2+, and the scat bikes are -1 BS, you don't have much. Just box them into the corner and they can't get away unless they are turbo'ing to the other side of the board.
* Have the slaanesh prince take the lash of submission against a MSU army.
* If you roll the 3+ harness trait, 4 dice has a good chance of getting summon off.
Trasvi wrote: I'm taking the Tetrad to a 1900pt event/practice game on Friday and a 2000pt 3-round event on Saturday: I'll give some feedback on how it goes. So far this year I've been placing in the top 3 positions in the local meta with Daemonkin, and I did pretty well last year with a Nurgle prince flying circus which should be similar style to this list.
A few months ago I wrote up this article on The Care and Feeding of Your Tetrad. You might find some helpful stuff in there. I've played them a lot in the past few months, at a number of RTTs and a GT. Here are my suggestions
* Drop the exalted on your Slaaesh prince. It's tempting to have him swoop all game, but don't. He needs to be in there smashing face with the rest of your princes. Soulstealer is a great option for him.
* 2 greaters on each prince at 2k is pretty much manditory. Otherwise your slaanesh prince will either be plucked off or of very limited use all game.
* Your nurgle prince cannot bring the doomsday bell. It's for heralds only
* Why not take the exalted gift on your herald. Also, I don't think they can take Paradox.
* Why are you getting Iridescent Horrors?
Thanks for the response. I liked your article and used it for help when building my list - I'd come to most of the same conclusions too.
I didn't notice that about the bell. THat makes me sad.
My games so far I've found Paradox to be amazing, even better than the Grimoire (without Fateweaver). Guaranteed casts on 5 dice summons is bonkers, and 3 dice Prescience only slightly less so. And so if I take that I can't take another Exalted on the Herald.
Iridescent Horrors are there to slightly offset the chance that I lose a Prince to Warp Storm, and I didn't have much else to do with 10 points.
I'll drop the Bell, that gives me 32points for... Souleater,
* If your taking a CaD, have you considered a bastion + comms relay. If you don't get turn 1, and don't want to be shot off the board, you can reserve your princes and hide in the bastion.
* Your princes should usually be charging by turn 2, or 3 at the latest -- depending on the board setup.
* Your gut feeling about the new powers is correct.
I did consider that but I don't have the model. My other thought is a Void Shield - it could work wonders to protect the princes when I don't get first turn.
Turn 2 charges with at least 1 dude are normal, if not turn 1 if I go second vs an aggressive opponent, but Hammer & Anvil is the bane of this army vs Tau or Eldar. The hounds present a way to be 36+D6" up the table to charge - I don't expect them to do anything except buy me a reprieve from shooting.
* Stormsurges are a big problem. The balesword can help here. The balesword also kills D-thirsters dead.
* Scatbike armies might or might not be a problem, depending on your rewards and gifts. If all your princes are shrouded and jinking for a 2+, and the scat bikes are -1 BS, you don't have much. Just box them into the corner and they can't get away unless they are turbo'ing to the other side of the board.
* Have the slaanesh prince take the lash of submission against a MSU army.
The biggest thing for me this time is the auto +1 toughness for 4 princes. THe times I came up against the Stormsurge with my Nurgle princes I tended to get hit with SD missiles that would insta-kill even if they didn't roll a 6 - but that +1T opens up a world of new opportunities. I'm more worried about the Riptide wing sitting back and shooting 48 Smart Missile shots and/or 72 Heavy Burst Cannon shots, but I'm not really sure there is anything anyone can do against that kind of firepower.
I figured the same thing with bikes and MSU. I think if I get the right survival powers I try to box them in, but if not I can spend a turn or two in the air Shrieking and summoning. Against Battle Company I'm more likely to go for some Witchfires anyway to open up transports as I'm generally not that scared of their shooting power.
Last weekned I played a Tau riptide wing list like you described with 7 riptides and a marker drone commander. Turn one I swooped 3/4 of the princes forward (The Khorne prince assaulted an assassin he infiltrated to close to my army). Since he was skyfiring at my princes, he was unable to hurt them and instead blew up a renegade knight.
On turn two when I went into gliding mode, he double shot at my princes. He managed to kill the slaanesh prince. On turn three I assaulted him, and he was tabled by turn 4.
Part it was the gifts and powers I got 2 instances of Iron Arm, but none of cursed earth. The Balesword tore riptides a new donkey-cave.
When I played a gladius list, I was just destroying 4-5 squads a turn. I got lucky with the 3+ harness power and was able to summon easily with just 4 dice. Over the course of 5 games, I was able to destroy most of his army with shrieks and assaulting every turn starting turn 2.
Here is my honest take on the Tetrad. It is good but it isn't a top-tier army. Why? Because it will have a hard time against some of the other top-tier armies. Here is how I think it will matchup against some of my own tournament armies:
Vs Daemons (Murderhorde, D-Thirster, Chaos Knight): I've got way too many fast scoring units that also corrupts objectives. I've got a D-Thirster but more importantly, I've got a Chaos Knight with potentially 2++ Invuln. My Daemons will have the board control advantage against the Tetrad.
Vs Centstar (Super-centstar): The super Centstar just doesn't give a f*ck. You can't kill them in assault. I've got 3-4 guys with 2++ (Storm shields + Sanctuary), not to mention potential powers such as Invisibility or Veil of Time. I've got multiple force weapons. I don't even care about Gating away, which I could do. My characters will just force weapon DP's to death in CC if they don't get Endurance.
Vs Tyranids (5 Flyrants): That many flyrants will down a DP per turn almost guaranteed (with the exception of the Nurgle DP).
Vs Wulfen Space Wolves: These guys are mean as f*ck in CC. They hit like a freight train and they will bring down anything that doesn't have at least a 3++ or re-rollable 4++. Honestly, these guys are meaner than Thunderwolf Cavalry because they potentially hit twice as hard. I think that they can out-assault anything that doesn't have Stomp attacks or 2++/3++ Invuln's.
I guess to add to that list, Jy2. More regular daemons list, the screamerstar is a really bad match up for the daemons as it can summon bloodletters (ap 3 is no fun) and grimoire the DP to -1, and (at least in NOVA format) can throw a bunch of flickering fires at them until strength 6 brings them down. Both games I've played against tetrad that's been my strategy.
jy2 wrote: Vs Tyranids (5 Flyrants): That many flyrants will down a DP per turn almost guaranteed (with the exception of the Nurgle DP).
But the DPs can also down one or two tyrant a turn easily.
So if you can (vector) strike first, then it's a one sided game for the demons.
If the tyrant can strike first, then you better pray to get FNP4+ everywhere ^^
Anyway I agree with you however, tetrad is good but not top-tier.
Independently of the ennemy, the randomness of the rewards/powers can screw you over sometimes
jy2 wrote: Here is my honest take on the Tetrad. It is good but it isn't a top-tier army. Why? Because it will have a hard time against some of the other top-tier armies. Here is how I think it will matchup against some of my own tournament armies:
Vs Daemons (Murderhorde, D-Thirster, Chaos Knight): I've got way too many fast scoring units that also corrupts objectives. I've got a D-Thirster but more importantly, I've got a Chaos Knight with potentially 2++ Invuln. My Daemons will have the board control advantage against the Tetrad.
Vs Centstar (Super-centstar): The super Centstar just doesn't give a f*ck. You can't kill them in assault. I've got 3-4 guys with 2++ (Storm shields + Sanctuary), not to mention potential powers such as Invisibility or Veil of Time. I've got multiple force weapons. I don't even care about Gating away, which I could do. My characters will just force weapon DP's to death in CC if they don't get Endurance.
Vs Tyranids (5 Flyrants): That many flyrants will down a DP per turn almost guaranteed (with the exception of the Nurgle DP).
Vs Wulfen Space Wolves: These guys are mean as f*ck in CC. They hit like a freight train and they will bring down anything that doesn't have at least a 3++ or re-rollable 4++. Honestly, these guys are meaner than Thunderwolf Cavalry because they potentially hit twice as hard. I think that they can out-assault anything that doesn't have Stomp attacks or 2++/3++ Invuln's.
Tetra can struggle against MSU on obj heavy missions but will do well on others. For example The Relic, Tetra don't have to chase down your Murderhorde units but just concentrate in the middle and purely focusing down the Knight and the D-thirster.
Against Centstar they just have to avoid it like dealing with any powerful deathstars, swoop the princes that has warp armor so they don't get blown away by grav. Tz and Nurgle DP can stay on the ground to contest other objectives away from the deathstar.
Against Nids, this may just be who get to alpha strike first.
Against wulfens again, its staying away from them and picking them apart with lash, shriek, and other psychic powers.
Against Nids, this may just be who get to alpha strike first.
yes but going at a major tourney and hope to alpha strke first is the fastest way to lose, this in my personal experience. I played a lot flying circus in both major and minor tourney and honestly in large high competitive tourney or you are very skilled and also bit lucky or you will go home quick. Right now i feel better formations, like murderhorde+burning skyhost you care nothing of alpha strikes and you can hold in place deathstars with your MSU list, control the board and score maelstrom easily.
Tetra can struggle against MSU on obj heavy missions but will do well on others
yes but in formats like ITC any mission have obj (maelstrom) so... i won last tourney against a gladius but cause my opponent made some mistakes, and regardless his mistakes i won only by 1 points, thanks to D thirster obliterated thunderfire cannons (his more costly units which gave me 1 extra point), almost impossible deny him scoring maelstrom points, if he was just bit more aggressive and instead waste time try to shoot down thirster focus his firepower on my troops i surely lost that match.
Against Nids, this may just be who get to alpha strike first.
yes but going at a major tourney and hope to alpha strke first is the fastest way to lose, this in my personal experience. I played a lot flying circus in both major and minor tourney and honestly in large high competitive tourney or you are very skilled and also bit lucky or you will go home quick. Right now i feel better formations, like murderhorde+burning skyhost you care nothing of alpha strikes and you can hold in place deathstars with your MSU list, control the board and score maelstrom easily.
Tetra can struggle against MSU on obj heavy missions but will do well on others
yes but in formats like ITC any mission have obj (maelstrom) so... i won last tourney against a gladius but cause my opponent made some mistakes, and regardless his mistakes i won only by 1 points, thanks to D thirster obliterated thunderfire cannons (his more costly units which gave me 1 extra point), almost impossible deny him scoring maelstrom points, if he was just bit more aggressive and instead waste time try to shoot down thirster focus his firepower on my troops i surely lost that match.
Like I said before thats why its important to have some kind of reserve mod like a Comm relay for Armies with small model counts. For example 2015 BAO winner was a daemon army with only 4 FMC(Fatey, Belakor, Tz DP and a D-thirster), rest of army were horros, cultists and a heldrake, but he brought a bastion with relay which is sooo important.
Nothing in ITC format is unbeatable, the meta right now is very rock paper scissors. Luck plays big roll in a ITC GT, match ups/missions, going 1st/2nd, rolling the right maelstrom per turn, and etc.
Take a tourney winning thunderdome list for example, it has very little shooting. If match against Tetras in ITC scenario 4, and he keep rolling "Destroy enemy unit" maelstrom, the DP just need to stay in the air and throwing shrieks at them at different angles to pick off libbys or black knights. Shrieks don't require roll to hit anymore so its auto hit even if the deathstar is invisible in ITC.
vercingatorix wrote: I guess to add to that list, Jy2. More regular daemons list, the screamerstar is a really bad match up for the daemons as it can summon bloodletters (ap 3 is no fun) and grimoire the DP to -1, and (at least in NOVA format) can throw a bunch of flickering fires at them until strength 6 brings them down. Both games I've played against tetrad that's been my strategy.
Yeah, my lists are just a few examples. I'm sure there are more out there that will potentially give the Tetrad some trouble.
jy2 wrote: Vs Tyranids (5 Flyrants): That many flyrants will down a DP per turn almost guaranteed (with the exception of the Nurgle DP).
But the DPs can also down one or two tyrant a turn easily.
So if you can (vector) strike first, then it's a one sided game for the demons.
If the tyrant can strike first, then you better pray to get FNP4+ everywhere ^^
Anyway I agree with you however, tetrad is good but not top-tier.
Independently of the ennemy, the randomness of the rewards/powers can screw you over sometimes
Not saying Tetrad builds cannot win against lists similar to mine, only that those types of lists are potential pitfall matchups against Tetrad builds. Those are the types of lists that will more often than not give the Tetrad problems. Of course the Tetrad can still win through clever play or good dice, but with 2 equally skilled generals and assuming average dice, I'd say the chances for a Tetrad victory is less than 50%. That is why it isn't a top-tier build. It can't win consistently against most of the better armies.
SonsofVulkan wrote: Tetra can struggle against MSU on obj heavy missions but will do well on others. For example The Relic, Tetra don't have to chase down your Murderhorde units but just concentrate in the middle and purely focusing down the Knight and the D-thirster.
Against Centstar they just have to avoid it like dealing with any powerful deathstars, swoop the princes that has warp armor so they don't get blown away by grav. Tz and Nurgle DP can stay on the ground to contest other objectives away from the deathstar.
Against Nids, this may just be who get to alpha strike first.
Against wulfens again, its staying away from them and picking them apart with lash, shriek, and other psychic powers.
With clever play, the Tetrad can still beat these types of armies. However, all of these lists have elements that make it hard for a Tetrad build to play against. The main offense of the Tetrad is the Daemon Princes. What my armies do is to neuter their main offenses. What happens when my main offense is better at killing your main offense than vice versa? Well, now you have to go to your Plan B or Plan C even. You would have to find secondary ways to win. Mainly, you win by trying to kill my support units. But by relying on mainly assault, you're going to have problems catching my scouts in Land Speeder Storms. You're going to have problems assaulting Flesh Hounds, only to be counter-charged by my Chaos Knight or D-thirster. You're going to have problems going after mawlocs, only to have them burrow back into the ground before you can get to them. You're going to have problems going after 5 man units with 3++ Invuln's, 2W each, FNP and S10 attacks (btw, they are highly resistant to shooting, even Shriek). Basically, your path to victory is severely limited. With most armies, you can win with your Primary offense or with a Secondary plan. Against certain armies (like mine), you've lost our Primary and only have your Secondary plan to try to win. Yes, you can still win but you will be playing at a handicap against these types of armies. You just don't have as many options in terms of strategies as you normally would against other armies.
Like I said before thats why its important to have some kind of reserve mod like a Comm relay for Armies with small model counts. For example 2015 BAO winner was a daemon army with only 4 FMC(Fatey, Belakor, Tz DP and a D-thirster), rest of army were horros, cultists and a heldrake, but he brought a bastion with relay which is sooo important.
Nothing in ITC format is unbeatable, the meta right now is very rock paper scissors. Luck plays big roll in a ITC GT, match ups/missions, going 1st/2nd, rolling the right maelstrom per turn, and etc.
Take a tourney winning thunderdome list for example, it has very little shooting. If match against Tetras in ITC scenario 4, and he keep rolling "Destroy enemy unit" maelstrom, the DP just need to stay in the air and throwing shrieks at them at different angles to pick off libbys or black knights. Shrieks don't require roll to hit anymore so its auto hit even if the deathstar is invisible in ITC.
That is a point of contention, with Shriek being able to hit Invisible units. Unlike Novas, which was FAQ'd to be able to hit Invisible units, Shriek is not. It's been FAQ'd to auto-hit, but anything that does not roll to hit (with the exception of Nova powers) cannot be fired as snapshots, meaning it cannot hit Invisible units unless house-ruled otherwise.
On second thought, since the ITC already ruled that certain attacks (blasts and templates) that don't roll to hit can still hit Invisible units, I can see them ruling in favor of Shriek hitting Invisibile units. But that would be an ITC house-ruled FAQ, not actual RAW.
But the DPs can also down one or two tyrant a turn easily.
So if you can (vector) strike first, then it's a one sided game for the demons.
If the tyrant can strike first, then you better pray to get FNP4+ everywhere ^^
Actually, the Tyranids can potentially rip multiple princes out of the sky at once. One thing to be very, very careful about in Daemon Prince versus Hive Tyrant dogfights is the tyranid psychic power Psychic Scream. With every hive tyrant being a level 2 psyker, the psychic phase isn't as easily dominated as it might be with a lot of games, and with Shadow In The Warp, a Ld-attacking nova power which ignores armour and jink saves can seriously inconvenience you if you let the bugs manifest it - plus it makes any perils results requiring leadership checks that much scarier.
jy2 wrote: Vs Daemons (Murderhorde, D-Thirster, Chaos Knight): I've got way too many fast scoring units that also corrupts objectives. I've got a D-Thirster but more importantly, I've got a Chaos Knight with potentially 2++ Invuln. My Daemons will have the board control advantage against the Tetrad.
A 2++ knight is a big problem, but honestly I've found D-Thirsters get beat like a red-headed stepchild by the nurgle prince's balesword. In one game my nurgle prince killed 2 d-thirsters in a row. Fearless dogs from KDK are a big problem.
jy2 wrote: Vs Centstar (Super-centstar): The super Centstar just doesn't give a f*ck. You can't kill them in assault. I've got 3-4 guys with 2++ (Storm shields + Sanctuary), not to mention potential powers such as Invisibility or Veil of Time. I've got multiple force weapons. I don't even care about Gating away, which I could do. My characters will just force weapon DP's to death in CC if they don't get Endurance.
Can you guarantee Sanctuary here? Is there a character that is guaranteed to get all the Santic powers (like Be'lakor gets all the Telepathy) I'd be curious to see how this would play out. Yet to find a deathstar that can take all 4 princes at once, including a wolfstar.
jy2 wrote: Vs Tyranids (5 Flyrants): That many flyrants will down a DP per turn almost guaranteed (with the exception of the Nurgle DP).
I've not faced 5 Flyrants yet. Would they take a prince down a turn in assault or shooting? Why does the nurgle prince survive?
jy2 wrote: Vs Wulfen Space Wolves: These guys are mean as f*ck in CC. They hit like a freight train and they will bring down anything that doesn't have at least a 3++ or re-rollable 4++. Honestly, these guys are meaner than Thunderwolf Cavalry because they potentially hit twice as hard. I think that they can out-assault anything that doesn't have Stomp attacks or 2++/3++ Invuln's.
I guess I need to see this in action. Looking at the statlines they don't look that gross, with their best feature getting one swing after they are killed. A smart player will be using one of the 2 princes that can double them out to prevent FNP. I would do my best to assault them with the Khorne prince. What makes these guys so gross?
I agree with you that they are not a tier 1 army. As they say, the proof is in the pudding. We are not seeing Tetrad armies win GTs for the reasons described earlier. Starting with a bastion is a good idea, and I like it. I think it would help handle a lot of alpha striking problems. I don't think it solves the problems of the tetrad overall for GT winning armies, but it does offer some tricks. I'll probably bring one at my next event with the tetrad.
@ Labmouse: GK Capt Stern auto has Sanctuary. So the Centstar they are referring to has Stern, Draigo, Tigirius & the Cents. Draigo has storm shield (2++ with Sanctuary) and is THE anti-Daemon Character. Draigo can easily go through 1 Prince per turn. The Tzeencth Prince (only with 2++) is the only chance to slow him down. And even then, Draigo can just leave combat and take the unit with him (Gate)
Another potential with Stern is to add him to a group of TWC with storm shields. He may slow them down, but that's not an issue against the Tetrad
@labmouse: what's your current take on the Tetrad? And what list are you running? Looking to run one soon enough and gathering intel to cover my many shortcomings
labmouse42 wrote: Have you used the formation "Infernal Tetrad"?
Slaanesh Prince[/color]
One of my favorite tricks with the Slaanesh prince is to use the lash of despair, for 2d6STR 7 attacks. It's a nice 20 point upgrade, that gets better if you rolled ironarm.
I've also used soulstealer and Silvershard on the Slaanesh Prince before. I've acutally gotten more use out of Silvershard as my princes rarely are taking just a wound. Most of the time when they die it's due to D, concentrated fire, or a stomp.
Lash of Despair is my always-to-go weapon even without Iron Arm. 2D6 S6-7 shooting with BS5 (or effectively BS10 in Tetrad) to the rear armor of vehicle is hilarious by itself. Of course it is undoubtedly AWESOME if I succeed in getting Iron Arm.
Though, IMHO, Soulstealer is a relic weapon for KOS rather than a winged DP in my meta. My Slaanesh DP focuses on the lashing and casting psychics in the sky and try not to glide until Turn 3 or later.
Galef wrote: @ Labmouse: GK Capt Stern auto has Sanctuary. So the Centstar they are referring to has Stern, Draigo, Tigirius & the Cents. Draigo has storm shield (2++ with Sanctuary) and is THE anti-Daemon Character. Draigo can easily go through 1 Prince per turn. The Tzeencth Prince (only with 2++) is the only chance to slow him down. And even then, Draigo can just leave combat and take the unit with him (Gate)
Thanks. That's pretty cool.
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Slaaneshian wrote: Lash of Despair is my always-to-go weapon even without Iron Arm. 2D6 S6-7 shooting with BS5 (or effectively BS10 in Tetrad) to the rear armor of vehicle is hilarious by itself. Of course it is undoubtedly AWESOME if I succeed in getting Iron Arm.
Though, IMHO, Soulstealer is a relic weapon for KOS rather than a winged DP in my meta. My Slaanesh DP focuses on the lashing and casting psychics in the sky and try not to glide until Turn 3 or later.
I wrote that a while ago before I really started playing the tetrad. The latest, updated version can be found here. It's a little over 5000 words long and goes into a lot of detail.
Others have contributed to it as well, through input here, or just writing parts of it. Jy2, for example, has written a number of sections.
Vomikron Noxis wrote: @labmouse: what's your current take on the Tetrad? And what list are you running? Looking to run one soon enough and gathering intel to cover my many shortcomings
See the document mentioned above.
My last run was Tetrad + 2 knights. That was not a good list.
My next try with the Tetrad will be with a bastion and a supporting CAD. The bastion is there to prevent me from auto-losing on turn 1 if I decide to deep strike the princes to avoid an alpha strike. I also own a bastion, and I don't own a VSG.
Honestly though, I'm going putting the Tetrad on hold for a while. I'm going to play with the warphost and tallyband for a month or two to really start to understand them.
last time i played tetrad i added a CAD with both N and Tz heralds and 11 horrors+10 plague bearers, it is not bad, you have some presence on the ground and with 16WC if needed you can summon more units, to grab obj or slow down enemy units.
jy2 wrote: Vs Daemons (Murderhorde, D-Thirster, Chaos Knight): I've got way too many fast scoring units that also corrupts objectives. I've got a D-Thirster but more importantly, I've got a Chaos Knight with potentially 2++ Invuln. My Daemons will have the board control advantage against the Tetrad.
A 2++ knight is a big problem, but honestly I've found D-Thirsters get beat like a red-headed stepchild by the nurgle prince's balesword. In one game my nurgle prince killed 2 d-thirsters in a row. Fearless dogs from KDK are a big problem.
It can go both ways. If the Thirster stays in terrain, they will most likely cancel each other out. I've actually played a game against a Nurgle flying Circus with Balesword GUO and 3 Balesword DP's. This was with my triple-Thirster army (no Chaos Knight). I charged 2 of his Princes (because he didn't want to charge my Thirster in terrain) and both times, my Thirster killed both of those Princes despite swinging last. Why? Because of 3++ from the Grimoire. It could have been worse if he gets the Re-roll Inv gift as well. Had I the Chaos Knight, you'd be looking at a 2++ Thirster (due to a Legacy Relic on the Knight).
jy2 wrote: Vs Centstar (Super-centstar): The super Centstar just doesn't give a f*ck. You can't kill them in assault. I've got 3-4 guys with 2++ (Storm shields + Sanctuary), not to mention potential powers such as Invisibility or Veil of Time. I've got multiple force weapons. I don't even care about Gating away, which I could do. My characters will just force weapon DP's to death in CC if they don't get Endurance.
Can you guarantee Sanctuary here? Is there a character that is guaranteed to get all the Santic powers (like Be'lakor gets all the Telepathy) I'd be curious to see how this would play out. Yet to find a deathstar that can take all 4 princes at once, including a wolfstar.
As already mentioned, Brother-Captain Stern comes with Sanctuary.
jy2 wrote: Vs Tyranids (5 Flyrants): That many flyrants will down a DP per turn almost guaranteed (with the exception of the Nurgle DP).
I've not faced 5 Flyrants yet. Would they take a prince down a turn in assault or shooting? Why does the nurgle prince survive?
Assuming the Prince is T6 and is wearing 3+ armor, 5 flyrants = 60 shots x 8/9 hit x 1/2 wound x 1/3 failed saves = 9W. With 4+FNP, it goes down to 4.5W. This doesn't factor in psychic shooting yet (Psychic Scream within Shadow range is extremely dangerous). Nurgle Prince survives due to 2+ shrouded cover. Against him, they only do 4.5W or 2.25W with 4+ FNP.
jy2 wrote: Vs Wulfen Space Wolves: These guys are mean as f*ck in CC. They hit like a freight train and they will bring down anything that doesn't have at least a 3++ or re-rollable 4++. Honestly, these guys are meaner than Thunderwolf Cavalry because they potentially hit twice as hard. I think that they can out-assault anything that doesn't have Stomp attacks or 2++/3++ Invuln's.
I guess I need to see this in action. Looking at the statlines they don't look that gross, with their best feature getting one swing after they are killed. A smart player will be using one of the 2 princes that can double them out to prevent FNP. I would do my best to assault them with the Khorne prince. What makes these guys so gross?
Those guys hit like a truck. I normally run 1 w/Frost Claws and 4 TH/SS. That means on the charge, you are looking at 7 S6 AP2 I5 attacks and 20 S10 AP I1 attacks. Moreover, every 6 rolled to hit generates another attack (Murderpack formation). Moreover, you kill them and they still get to attack again. So say they charge a D-Thirster. They attack with 7 S6 + 20 S10 attacks. Then the Thirster swings at I1 and for some reason, rolls 5 6's on the D-table, thus killing them all. Then they get another 7 S6 + 20 S10 attacks again (and with "exploding" 6's)! Best-case scenario for the Wulfen player, you are looking at over 14 S6 attacks and 40 S10 attacks (due to the "exploding" 6's) and that is from just 1 unit!!! As soon as they kill 1 Prince (and they will), all of the other Princes are going to be insta-killed by their S10 attacks. In my Wulfen list, I run 5x5 of these units! Assaulting them by a DP is almost a deathwish.
I agree with you that they are not a tier 1 army. As they say, the proof is in the pudding. We are not seeing Tetrad armies win GTs for the reasons described earlier. Starting with a bastion is a good idea, and I like it. I think it would help handle a lot of alpha striking problems. I don't think it solves the problems of the tetrad overall for GT winning armies, but it does offer some tricks. I'll probably bring one at my next event with the tetrad.
Honestly, to me, the yardstick for a top-tier army isn't whether it has won any GT or not. How I define a top-tier army is an army that can go toe-to-toe with other top-tier armies and have about an equal chance to win. It doesn't always have to be able to triumph over other top armies. Even a 50% win ratio against other top armies is good enough. The most important thing about a top-tier army in my books is whether it has a consistent chance to beat any other top army no matter the build. Unfortunately, against a lot of other top armies, the Tetrad just does not have that consistency.
But the DPs can also down one or two tyrant a turn easily.
So if you can (vector) strike first, then it's a one sided game for the demons.
If the tyrant can strike first, then you better pray to get FNP4+ everywhere ^^
Actually, the Tyranids can potentially rip multiple princes out of the sky at once. One thing to be very, very careful about in Daemon Prince versus Hive Tyrant dogfights is the tyranid psychic power Psychic Scream. With every hive tyrant being a level 2 psyker, the psychic phase isn't as easily dominated as it might be with a lot of games, and with Shadow In The Warp, a Ld-attacking nova power which ignores armour and jink saves can seriously inconvenience you if you let the bugs manifest it - plus it makes any perils results requiring leadership checks that much scarier.
Both armies can shred each other to pieces VERY fast. That's what make the match-up not an ideal one. Were I disagree with Jy2, its on the fact that I don't think the tetrad chances of victory is under 50% at equal skill/luck level. Flyrant are more consistent, but the tetrad has a higher potential.
[edit] Didnt saw the previous message but :
J2y wrote:Unfortunately, against a lot of other top armies, the Tetrad just does not have that consistency.
Consistency is the word !
Regarding the shriek-nova, with the DP being higher mastery level, i never found it to be an issue. It's scary, but easy to deny.
The impossible robe on the other hand... that's a true weakness. With 5 flyrant its very easy to inflict 1 wound and force a Ld6 check to not die. You better pray the DP has a 2++ and FNP4+.
Galef wrote: @ Labmouse: GK Capt Stern auto has Sanctuary. So the Centstar they are referring to has Stern, Draigo, Tigirius & the Cents. Draigo has storm shield (2++ with Sanctuary) and is THE anti-Daemon Character. Draigo can easily go through 1 Prince per turn. The Tzeencth Prince (only with 2++) is the only chance to slow him down. And even then, Draigo can just leave combat and take the unit with him (Gate)
Another potential with Stern is to add him to a group of TWC with storm shields. He may slow them down, but that's not an issue against the Tetrad
Don't forget that I have several Banishments in the army. Stern's Banishment affects all Daemon units within 12". Draigo can cast his Banishment on a 2+ if he is the Warlord and has Hatred (Daemons). Then I've got Banishment from my strikers and sometimes, a dreadknight (if I take him). I have ways to reduce the Tzeentch DP's Invuln's. Moreover, the Grey Knight characters give the Centstar Prefered Enemy against Daemons.
I use Draigo to tank the Nurgle DP's attacks and put one of my 2++ libbies in the challenge if any other DP's issue a challenge. The only assaults this unit fears is multiple Super-heavies and their Stomps. Charging them with multiple Knights is the best way to kill them, not with multiple DP's.
Regarding the shriek-nova, with the DP being higher mastery level, i never found it to be an issue. It's scary, but easy to deny.
The impossible robe on the other hand... that's a true weakness. With 5 flyrant its very easy to inflict 1 wound and force a Ld6 check to not die. You better pray the DP has a 2++ and FNP4+.
I consider Psychic Scream if it goes off to be a bonus. You can't really bank on it as reliable offense so I never factor it into the army's chances of winning. In other words, when I look at the matchups, I don't consider Scream at all into the offense. If it successfully goes off, woohoo! But I am assuming that it doesn't go off when I look at the matchups. So in my analysis, the norm is that Tyranids don't get Scream off.
As for the 2++ Tzeentch DP, well, he'd be the last to die. Or he might live. It won't really matter because by then, it would be 1 Prince versus 3-4 flyrants. The only way I see the Tetrad beating a flyrant-spam list is to summon like crazy to try to take the Maelstrom objectives. Win via the "Secondary" strategy because they aren't going to win by going head-to-head against flyrants that they can't assault.
They don't have to assault the flyrants. They have more than enough firepower through vector-striking and shooting (lash + psychic power to down some flyrants.
RabbitMaster wrote: They don't have to assault the flyrants. They have more than enough firepower through vector-striking and shooting (lash + psychic power to down some flyrants.
Yes, but who's got the better shooting? 2d6 S-X shots + couple of vector strikes or 60 TL-S6 shots? Your chances of winning by trying to shoot down the flyrants is about as good as the flyrant's chances of winning by not shooting and trying to assault your DP's instead.
RabbitMaster wrote: They don't have to assault the flyrants. They have more than enough firepower through vector-striking and shooting (lash + psychic power to down some flyrants.
Tretrad gets one lash, Flyrants are a bunch of psykers also so should be denying some of your psychic shooting as well, and you shouldn't able to get off any vector strikes with out eating all of the twin devourer shots first.
I'm not saying that the tetrad shoot harder than the flyrant guys. Of course 60 twin-linked S6 shots is, in almost all cases, a lot better than the tetrad's non-assault combined firepower. But we're talking in a very particular case here: flyrants vs tetrad. And while it takes all the flyrants to shoot down one averagely buffed DP. The reverse is simply not true. 4 vector striking DP kills a flyrant on average, and they have yet to cast powers / shoot their weapons.
Basically the flyrant shoot hard, but the tetrad is though as nails.
On the other hand the tetrad don't have the same insane firepower, but the flyrant are a lot weaker.
Regarding who get the alpha strike... both have equal chances as they have about the same range. Sure the tetrad wont vector strike before the brainleech worms starts raining, but with all their psychic offense and the few shooting weapons they have (seriously, even the S8 ap1 reward is good against a flyrant), they still have good chances to shoot down one flyrant.
P.S.: One thing we dont think a lot of, but that is somewhat powerful in a tetrad vs flyrant setting, are grounding tests. The tetrad can occasion a lot more grounding tests than the flyrants, and they're alos a lot more resilient to it.
sometimes a single psychic scream kills a tyrant easily so when you have 4 you can shoot down 1-2 in one turn, can happen, not often but happen, vector strike+shrieks kills a tyrant easily, and the range is the same 18" so...problems for a 4-5 flyrant list is on the ground you are very weak and tetrad can eventually summon or have a CAD with obj sec troops, if you dont kill quick the princes you are doomed sometimes to lose to maelstrom , is an hard match for tetrad but most is about single player skill and who start first, if tetrad shoot off their defenesive powers is not easy kill a DP then.
I made some data cards to keep rewards straight for each prince, they're below if anyone finds them useful. Any feedback on additional things to put on the cards would be great too, I just got all my princes together yesterday so I haven't gotten a chance to use them yet and see exactly what I need.
This would be a decent ITC list that I would take, given how powerful shriek is now at least in the ITC. Belakor would cast shroud, giving every prince 2+ jink and invis on another for added protection.
5 shrieks with bell could potentially down one or two flyrants in one psychic phase. Picking apart deathstars that lack decent invuln easily. 5x5 wulfens even with SS will get whittle down fast.
This would be a decent ITC list that I would take, given how powerful shriek is now at least in the ITC. Belakor would cast shroud, giving every prince 2+ jink and invis on another for added protection.
5 shrieks with bell could potentially down one or two flyrants in one psychic phase. Picking apart deathstars that lack decent invuln easily. 5x5 wulfens even with SS will get whittle down fast.
You mean 4 Shrieks, right?
Give the Khorne DP the Armor of Scorn.
Just FYI, but I'm not sure how ITC is ruling Shriek yet. Eventually, they will most likely adopt the GWFAQ's....when they become official. But for now, I don't believe they auto-hit yet unless the TO of the tournament says they will be running the un-official GWFAQ's. Then again, re-rolling 1's makes Shriek pretty much auto-hit anyways.
Personally, I have not had much success getting Shriek off in my Daemon armies. Needing at least 2 dice to cast with a 25% chance of failure and then with bugs denying on 5+ with 10+D6 dice (for a Pentyrant build) makes Shriek somewhat unreliable. Then again, I suppose it's the best that Daemons can do against flyrant-spam.
This would be a decent ITC list that I would take, given how powerful shriek is now at least in the ITC. Belakor would cast shroud, giving every prince 2+ jink and invis on another for added protection.
5 shrieks with bell could potentially down one or two flyrants in one psychic phase. Picking apart deathstars that lack decent invuln easily. 5x5 wulfens even with SS will get whittle down fast.
You mean 4 Shrieks, right?
Give the Khorne DP the Armor of Scorn.
Just FYI, but I'm not sure how ITC is ruling Shriek yet. Eventually, they will most likely adopt the GWFAQ's....when they become official. But for now, I don't believe they auto-hit yet unless the TO of the tournament says they will be running the un-official GWFAQ's. Then again, re-rolling 1's makes Shriek pretty much auto-hit anyways.
Personally, I have not had much success getting Shriek off in my Daemon armies. Needing at least 2 dice to cast with a 25% chance of failure and then with bugs denying on 5+ with 10+D6 dice (for a Pentyrant build) makes Shriek somewhat unreliable. Then again, I suppose it's the best that Daemons can do against flyrant-spam.
Yeah 4 shrieks, typo. Why wouldnt ITC adopt GWFaq if it became official, its not like auto hitting shriek is broken. Honestly turn 1 Tetra don't even need to throw out too many offense, main thing is to get all the buffs up(hopefully also endurance) and maybe summon a unit of plague bearers to sit on a obj. Goal is to out score Nids in maelstrom which Tetra should have a better advantage. Survive turn 1 shooting by also staying out of LOS and/or range. Turn 2 is when Tetra actually go on offense with vector strikes, lash, shrieks and etc. I'm pretty sure Tetra can beat Pentyrant list given equal player skills just by winning Maelstrom and can easily at least tie primary. Pentyrant is no longer a tough list to beat anymore in ITC.
And you mentioned many times about a Top list is a list that can do well on average against most other top lists in a GT. The armies that you posted are not part of the current top meta and neither are they popular, so even if some of them can out right beat Tetra should not be used to judge whether or not Tetra is a tier 1 or 2 army.
So lets look at the current top meta... base on previous GT numbers over 50% of top 16 are Eldars. Tetra will beat down scatter bike spam easily as long they don't get alpha striked, Tetra with Belakor owns a WK quite easily, Warp spider spam(one of the most dominant in ITC) can't do crap to DPs., The lack of anti-cover really put Eldar on a disadvantage.
What else? Riptide wing and Storm surges? No problem!
Triple IK: Good thing I got belakor and hopefully roll Iron arm for the lash prince. Goal is to out score them on maelstrom and objectives.
Gladius: May struggle on obj heavy ITC missions and getting unlucky on maelstrom rolls... basically don't let them run away on the maelstrom.
SM Bike deathstars: DA+SW, shrieks hurt them and hopefully getting S10 lashes to ID Thunderwolves. All about positioning and the right angles to pick off models from the death star. Azrael+Veil for re-rollerable 4++ isn't that bad.
Tetra is a tier 1 army if a player knows how to win with it.... like Alan Bajra
Symbiode wrote: I made some data cards to keep rewards straight for each prince, they're below if anyone finds them useful. Any feedback on additional things to put on the cards would be great too, I just got all my princes together yesterday so I haven't gotten a chance to use them yet and see exactly what I need.
I think you are onto something here. I'm not 100% sold on Be'lakor. In my games, he is always the first targeted and the first killed. While he does have the 2+ jink, he lacks greater rewards, which can greatly increase the durability of the other princes. If something ignores cover, hes only a 4++.
4 wounds at T5 is just not all that hard for most armies. I know, its anecdotal evidence, but my experience with Be'lakor has been underwhelming. Replacing him with a LoC or BT you could throw 2 greaters on would go a long way IMHO.
And, like jy2 mentioned, give the khorne prince armor of scorn.
I think you are onto something here. I'm not 100% sold on Be'lakor. In my games, he is always the first targeted and the first killed. While he does have the 2+ jink, he lacks greater rewards, which can greatly increase the durability of the other princes. If something ignores cover, hes only a 4++.
4 wounds at T5 is just not all that hard for most armies. I know, its anecdotal evidence, but my experience with Be'lakor has been underwhelming. Replacing him with a LoC or BT you could throw 2 greaters on would go a long way IMHO.
And, like jy2 mentioned, give the khorne prince armor of scorn.
Yeah def armor of scorn, I made this list quite quickly. The bastion can be downgraded to save points, I'm sure it's quite easy to hide a unit of nurglings out of LOS, might be risky against sky hammer tho.
Belakor is a better force multiplier to make the tetra more survivable. He should be swooping most of the time. Depending on the match up, if the opponent has stuff that can skyfire+ignore cover(not many), then it's important for Bela to cast invis on himself and and keeping him out of LOS until Tetra can focus down the threats.
SonsofVulkan wrote: Belakor is a better force multiplier to make the tetra more survivable. He should be swooping most of the time. Depending on the match up, if the opponent has stuff that can skyfire+ignore cover(not many), then it's important for Bela to cast invis on himself and and keeping him out of LOS until Tetra can focus down the threats.
For the points I would rather take a LoC or BT. Heck, since you will be moving your tetrad forward on turn one, even deep striking a KoS or GuO is an option. Let me explain why. 2/3 of the armies I've faced are gunlines of one sort or another. In these cases my opponent sets up as far back as possible from my princes. At best I'm in hammer and anvil only 33" away, but in hammerhead or vanguard it can be further.
This means often on turn 1 I am swooping all 4 princes forward to close the gap as much as possible. Since I won't be assaulting until turn 3 anyway, I might as well make it harder to hurt me on that turn. This also lets me get in a few shrieks or maybe a lash. On turn two I go into glide and use buffs to set myself up as strongly as possible.
This is where Be'Lakor is really useful, as he can guarantee that your army is well protected from that barrage by giving them shrouded. If your opponent cannot ignore cover, then it's a great trick. Even against most Tau armies, they will only be removing cover from 1-2 models as they tend to clump all their markerlights. However, this is almost always the turn where Be'Lakor has died or been seriously hurt. That Tau player puts markerlights on him, or the Eldar player casts 'Reveal', the Marine player uses Hunters Eye...etc... If Be'Lakor manages to survive he's now really hurt and dies quickly in combat.
The problem is Be'Lakor is extremely fragile. Without a 3+ save and/or greater and T5, he just falls. Honestly, I might try a KoS or GUO deep striking in on turn 2. With fleet and +3" run, the KoS has a better chance of gettinging into assault over a GUO. The GUO is very tough, and with the right rewards and powers becomes very hard to dislodge (minus stomp)
I agree. I used to play Be'Lakor all the time because he's really good, but in the last couple years his sustainability decreased a lot. Armies got more ignore cover, more shooting, etc... but he stayed 2+ cover, and with only 4W he's not that tough.
Personnally, I would vote for a LoC. Give him lvl3 and Paradox and he's now a big force multiplier in the psychic phase. Garanteed summon or 4D6 flicker fire on 5 dice is huge, or even prescience on 3 dice. Plus with the freed points you can bump the nurgle prince lvl3.
SonsofVulkan wrote: Belakor is a better force multiplier to make the tetra more survivable. He should be swooping most of the time. Depending on the match up, if the opponent has stuff that can skyfire+ignore cover(not many), then it's important for Bela to cast invis on himself and and keeping him out of LOS until Tetra can focus down the threats.
For the points I would rather take a LoC or BT. Heck, since you will be moving your tetrad forward on turn one, even deep striking a KoS or GuO is an option. Let me explain why. 2/3 of the armies I've faced are gunlines of one sort or another. In these cases my opponent sets up as far back as possible from my princes. At best I'm in hammer and anvil only 33" away, but in hammerhead or vanguard it can be further.
This means often on turn 1 I am swooping all 4 princes forward to close the gap as much as possible. Since I won't be assaulting until turn 3 anyway, I might as well make it harder to hurt me on that turn. This also lets me get in a few shrieks or maybe a lash. On turn two I go into glide and use buffs to set myself up as strongly as possible.
This is where Be'Lakor is really useful, as he can guarantee that your army is well protected from that barrage by giving them shrouded. If your opponent cannot ignore cover, then it's a great trick. Even against most Tau armies, they will only be removing cover from 1-2 models as they tend to clump all their markerlights. However, this is almost always the turn where Be'Lakor has died or been seriously hurt. That Tau player puts markerlights on him, or the Eldar player casts 'Reveal', the Marine player uses Hunters Eye...etc... If Be'Lakor manages to survive he's now really hurt and dies quickly in combat.
The problem is Be'Lakor is extremely fragile. Without a 3+ save and/or greater and T5, he just falls. Honestly, I might try a KoS or GUO deep striking in on turn 2. With fleet and +3" run, the KoS has a better chance of gettinging into assault over a GUO. The GUO is very tough, and with the right rewards and powers becomes very hard to dislodge (minus stomp)
Turn 2 Belakor should still be swooping while the rest of tetras go glide mode. So they gonna snapshot a bunch of market lights at Bela? Ok no problem, one of the other DP should have cursed earth casted. Tau will still have to focus a lot of snapshots and not many riptide wings take the skyfire upgrade and even if they do they still hit at BS1 if bela has invis.
You guys are not thinking top GTTAC list building which is what Jy is talking about. So because couple armies can ignore cover, you wouldn't take Bela and end up making your princes susceptible to mass scatter lasers and etc? Without consistent shrouding and/or invis, DoS and DoK will get blown out easily before they even get a chance to assault against many top GT armies. You can't stack cursed earths any more!
Plus the fact Belakor has built-in EW is worth a lot. You can easily send him against a Wraithknight thanks to having a Fleshbane weapon, and they'd have to kill him reliably by rolling a 6 on Stomp. That's not bad with the Invisibility and Psychic Shriek stuff going on as well.
SonsofVulkan wrote: Turn 2 Belakor should still be swooping while the rest of tetras go glide mode. So they gonna snapshot a bunch of market lights at Bela? Ok no problem, one of the other DP should have cursed earth casted. Tau will still have to focus a lot of snapshots and not many riptide wings take the skyfire upgrade and even if they do they still hit at BS1 if bela has invis.
So your paying 350 points for a model to stay in swooping mode and just use shrieks or invis? That's not an effective use of points.
SonsofVulkan wrote: You guys are not thinking top GTTAC list building which is what Jy is talking about. So because couple armies can ignore cover, you wouldn't take Bela and end up making your princes susceptible to mass scatter lasers and etc? Without consistent shrouding and/or invis, DoS and DoK will get blown out easily before they even get a chance to assault against many top GT armies. You can't stack cursed earths any more!
Try some games with a Tetrad before making such blanket statements. It's highly dependent on many factors.
Last weekend I played against 7 riptide list, and he managed to kill 1 DP before he was tabled. I've shoved the Tetrad down many eldar players throats wiped them, which works especially well since the tetrad is nearly immune to spiders. I've also been tabled on turn 2 by Eldar with bad psychic defenses and bad rewards.
If you find Be'Lakor works for you, use him. I tried him a number of times and found it lacking. A really good idea that you have is the bastion and deep striking if you don't get turn one. I think there is a lot of potential there.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Plus the fact Belakor has built-in EW is worth a lot. You can easily send him against a Wraithknight thanks to having a Fleshbane weapon, and they'd have to kill him reliably by rolling a 6 on Stomp. That's not bad with the Invisibility and Psychic Shriek stuff going on as well.
There is a ~30% every combat round of a that stomp roll of 6 being rolled. A sword and board knight will probably kill Be'Lakor before he can kill the knight.
The nurgle and khorne prince have been my go-to for taking down the knight. The nurgle prince with the balesword, which does D3 wounds a hit and ignores FNP is really strong. The khorne prince is also ID'ing on 6s with an Axe of Khorne. If the WK is not in cover, it will likely die before it can swing -- especially if the nurgle prince got Iron Arm or Warp Speed.
Edit : To re-iterate, the Tetrad list is not a tier 1. Your biggest problem are just bad games, which happen. Over the course of 5-6 games your really likely to have that one game where things fall apart. In one day event's I've won small RTTs with the tetrad. All it takes is 3 good games in a row.
The tetrad also had a harder time in ITC games where it's usually progessive scoring. Keeping control on Objective 1 or 2 can be hard when your opponent is on objective 3, and can cost you maelstrom points.
Nobody takes the Sword Wraithknight most of the time. That 30% chance is something I'd definitely take, especially with Invisibility negating that sword essentially and having Shriek standard.
agree with labmouse, any demon list so tetrad also is dependent by dice when you roll rewards and psy powers, but when you get average dice you can seriously kick some asses, i got a nice feedback from tetrad, i m just more warp charge oriented so usually i play old flyng circus with about 14 WC, or tetrad with CAD and couple of heralds/horrors for more charges and some obj sec troops, that could help in maelstrom missions.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Nobody takes the Sword Wraithknight most of the time. That 30% chance is something I'd definitely take, especially with Invisibility negating that sword essentially and having Shriek standard.
Last time I checked the sword wraithknight is the superior WK (of the codex variants at least) because you get 4 D attacks each player turn and a 5++ instead of just 2 D attacks on your shooting phase
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Nobody takes the Sword Wraithknight most of the time. That 30% chance is something I'd definitely take, especially with Invisibility negating that sword essentially and having Shriek standard.
What region of the country are you playing in? I'm playing in the New England area, and I see quite a few of them. I also played with one when I was playing Eldar b/c it's the best in the ITC format.
CrownAxe wrote: Last time I checked the sword wraithknight is the superior WK (of the codex variants at least) because you get 4 D attacks each player turn and a 5++ instead of just 2 D attacks on your shooting phase
That 5++ is huge. Most of the time when weapons are wounding the knight, it's not getting a save anyway. That 5++ increases it's 'time to live' by 50%.
SonsofVulkan wrote: Turn 2 Belakor should still be swooping while the rest of tetras go glide mode. So they gonna snapshot a bunch of market lights at Bela? Ok no problem, one of the other DP should have cursed earth casted. Tau will still have to focus a lot of snapshots and not many riptide wings take the skyfire upgrade and even if they do they still hit at BS1 if bela has invis.
So your paying 350 points for a model to stay in swooping mode and just use shrieks or invis? That's not an effective use of points.
SonsofVulkan wrote: You guys are not thinking top GTTAC list building which is what Jy is talking about. So because couple armies can ignore cover, you wouldn't take Bela and end up making your princes susceptible to mass scatter lasers and etc? Without consistent shrouding and/or invis, DoS and DoK will get blown out easily before they even get a chance to assault against many top GT armies. You can't stack cursed earths any more!
Try some games with a Tetrad before making such blanket statements. It's highly dependent on many factors.
Last weekend I played against 7 riptide list, and he managed to kill 1 DP before he was tabled. I've shoved the Tetrad down many eldar players throats wiped them, which works especially well since the tetrad is nearly immune to spiders. I've also been tabled on turn 2 by Eldar with bad psychic defenses and bad rewards.
If you find Be'Lakor works for you, use him. I tried him a number of times and found it lacking. A really good idea that you have is the bastion and deep striking if you don't get turn one. I think there is a lot of potential there.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Plus the fact Belakor has built-in EW is worth a lot. You can easily send him against a Wraithknight thanks to having a Fleshbane weapon, and they'd have to kill him reliably by rolling a 6 on Stomp. That's not bad with the Invisibility and Psychic Shriek stuff going on as well.
There is a ~30% every combat round of a that stomp roll of 6 being rolled. A sword and board knight will probably kill Be'Lakor before he can kill the knight.
The nurgle and khorne prince have been my go-to for taking down the knight. The nurgle prince with the balesword, which does D3 wounds a hit and ignores FNP is really strong. The khorne prince is also ID'ing on 6s with an Axe of Khorne. If the WK is not in cover, it will likely die before it can swing -- especially if the nurgle prince got Iron Arm or Warp Speed.
Edit : To re-iterate, the Tetrad list is not a tier 1. Your biggest problem are just bad games, which happen. Over the course of 5-6 games your really likely to have that one game where things fall apart. In one day event's I've won small RTTs with the tetrad. All it takes is 3 good games in a row.
The tetrad also had a harder time in ITC games where it's usually progessive scoring. Keeping control on Objective 1 or 2 can be hard when your opponent is on objective 3, and can cost you maelstrom points.
No I wouldnt pay 350 to keep Belakor in the air, its there because its good in combat and for the guarantee invis/shrouding powers. But against certain few armies that can ignore cover, why wouldnt I keep it in the air and/or cast invis on it.
I have plenty of experience with the classic flying circus variants, those DPs are no where as resilient as Tetra and Belakor was one of the factors that help keep Fatey and other DPs alive. And with Belakor, Tetra DPs are even more resilient and can fully dedicate their psychic powers to biomancy or malefic(if shriek is not needed).
All I can say is I never got tabled by anybody in a tourney
Yeah 4 shrieks, typo. Why wouldnt ITC adopt GWFaq if it became official, its not like auto hitting shriek is broken. Honestly turn 1 Tetra don't even need to throw out too many offense, main thing is to get all the buffs up(hopefully also endurance) and maybe summon a unit of plague bearers to sit on a obj. Goal is to out score Nids in maelstrom which Tetra should have a better advantage. Survive turn 1 shooting by also staying out of LOS and/or range. Turn 2 is when Tetra actually go on offense with vector strikes, lash, shrieks and etc. I'm pretty sure Tetra can beat Pentyrant list given equal player skills just by winning Maelstrom and can easily at least tie primary. Pentyrant is no longer a tough list to beat anymore in ITC.
And you mentioned many times about a Top list is a list that can do well on average against most other top lists in a GT. The armies that you posted are not part of the current top meta and neither are they popular, so even if some of them can out right beat Tetra should not be used to judge whether or not Tetra is a tier 1 or 2 army.
So lets look at the current top meta... base on previous GT numbers over 50% of top 16 are Eldars. Tetra will beat down scatter bike spam easily as long they don't get alpha striked, Tetra with Belakor owns a WK quite easily, Warp spider spam(one of the most dominant in ITC) can't do crap to DPs., The lack of anti-cover really put Eldar on a disadvantage.
What else? Riptide wing and Storm surges? No problem!
Triple IK: Good thing I got belakor and hopefully roll Iron arm for the lash prince. Goal is to out score them on maelstrom and objectives.
Gladius: May struggle on obj heavy ITC missions and getting unlucky on maelstrom rolls... basically don't let them run away on the maelstrom.
SM Bike deathstars: DA+SW, shrieks hurt them and hopefully getting S10 lashes to ID Thunderwolves. All about positioning and the right angles to pick off models from the death star. Azrael+Veil for re-rollerable 4++ isn't that bad.
Tetra is a tier 1 army if a player knows how to win with it.... like Alan Bajra
BTW, just FYI, but it is Tetrad, not Tetra. Everytime you say that, I think of the Tau.
My lists are just some examples of lists that will potentially give the Tetrad some problems. They might not be proven lists but they do have the tools to deal with many of the other top lists. The Tetrad can still beat top lists, especially if the general is savvy enough. However, they are playing with with several disadvantages inherent to such a Daemon build:
1. They lack any mitigation for the Warpstorm. Unless you run Fateweaver or the Tallyband, this type of list is more susceptible to the Warpstorm than other Daemon lists.
2. Scoring on Maelstrom. A flyer-heavy list will always be at an inherent disadvantage in Progressive or Maelstrom objectives. The stronger the ground presence, the better the list is in terms of Maelstrom objectives. To play the Maelstroms, the Tetrad will have to rely on Summoning but then that runs counter to them stacking buffs on themselves. Yes, the DP's can stay in Gliding mode but oftentimes, they can't be relied on to sit on objectives because they need to be pushed aggressively towards the opponent's forces.
3. Board control. While the Tetrad is a good board control army, it still really can't stand up to the board-control ability of a true Deathstar build or tarpit armies. That is one of the problems against armies such as my Daemons or Wulfen army. They lack the board control ability against these types of armies, but they also do not have decent shooting to fall back upon either.
4. Unfavorable Gifts and/or Psychic Powers. To be fair, this is a problem of ALL Daemon builds, not just the Tetrad. Get the right gift/power, any Daemon army can be top-tier. Don't get the right powers? Well, we've all gone through that before.....
5. They are more susceptible to counter-matchups than a lot of other armies. The main offense of the army is Assault. However, what happens when it goes up against an army that is better in Assault or that has the resiliency to survive their Assault? The Tetrad cannot rely on shooting as a fallback strategy. Thus, they lose a lot of their options and now have to find another way of winning. Normally, the Tetrad would have a Plan A and a Plan B to win. Now, it's only got a Plan B. Inherently, the Tetrad will have to be playing with a handicap against such armies and it does this more frequently than many of the other top tournament lists.
With some luck, you can still do well with the Tetrad. More power to Alan if that is what he is currently running (though in my opinion, I don't see him running it at the larger GT's). However, just like Pentyrant Tyranids, such an army is more matchup dependent than normal and I just don't see it as being reliable enough to win a large event or even to win consistently against other top lists.
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Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Nobody takes the Sword Wraithknight most of the time. That 30% chance is something I'd definitely take, especially with Invisibility negating that sword essentially and having Shriek standard.
I actually like the Sword-&-Board version better than the double-wraithcannon variety, especially in the ITC format. Eldar has plenty of D shooting already. I value the WK for his board control ability more.
As for the FW variety, well, I really don't have very much experience with them so I can't say for sure.
Might not win a GT, but most likely at least top 8 pending match ups. Eldar, SM death stars, and Gladius will probably continue to dominate the top 5 at any GT
Hmm so my feedback after a tournament is:
I needed more practice with this list against tough opponents before bringing it to a tournament!
I ended up with 3 wins and 2 losses over 5 games, but one of them doesn't really count because the opponent's list was very easy, and the two other wins could easily have swung the other way if I'd made one or two less Feel No Pain rolls.
Practice Game 1: Vs a Guard Tank Company.
I got first turn, got all the buffs I needed, and proceeded to wreck face. I tabled him on top of 3 and lost only 3 hounds to the one turn of shooting I allowed him before getting in to combat. It was fun to see the Slaanesh Prince put out 12 S10 shots with his whip and destroy Pask + Friends in one go, but it wasn't a good learning experience.
Game 1: VS Eldar. Maxed Seer Council, Wraithknight, 3x 6 Scatterbikes, 6x 5 Warp Spiders
This was a game against a very good general that I've had close games with before, but that wasn't the case today. He took first turn, and used his superior range + mobility to stay at absolute max range where I couldn't catch him. A 6 on the destroyer chart took out the Warlord with his 2++ rerollable, and he had enough psychic dice to deny the critical powers when I needed to cast them.
If I had the game again I think I would have taken to the air in T1 with all my princes and shrieked the scatter bikes off the board before landing and trying to do combat with the remainder.
Game 2 vs Eldar + Marines. 4 Grav Devestators + Libby in a pod, 3x 4 Scatterbikes, Wraithflamers in a Waveserpent, 6 x Warp Spiders.
He got first turn and lands the pod next to my Slaanesh Prince. It soaks up nearly his whole army's worth of shooting before dying.
I buff up and counterattack, but my nurgle prince is in a bad spot for the Wraithguard to get him next turn. Without whip from the Slaanesh Prince I have only a tiny bit of shooting and can't manage to take out the Waveserpent.
The nurgle prince gets flamered to death next turn.
For the rest of the game I chase him around the table, generally *just* missing out on killing a unit per turn on the charge and thus not taking much return fire. The Khorne prince goes down in T4, but by that time he has only 2 squads of spiders left alive.
Game 3 vs Dark Eldar with lots of venoms, raiders and flyers
Still no first turn, but a host of good powers this game. All the objectives were up his end of the board, which was good for me.
I made good use of Cursed Earth this game, with the Tzeentch prince failing all his attempted charges in to combat and just being a buff-bot all game.
I had a few turns where I soaked a truly ridiculous amount of firepower; a squad of horrors took 0 wounds from 2 venoms and a bomber shooting at them, and the Slaanesh Prince especially got caught in the open but made his 4+ FNP saves count and managed to survive on a single wound; he then charged some Kabalites and regained them all! This was a regular opponent of mine so I knew how to take him on. I surrendered my back field early (all the objectives were up his end) and tactically summoned flamers in to roast the transport contents.
Game 4 vs Iron Hands bikes + centurions / Knight / Admech
Well this was a massacre.
Turn 1 he pods in 2 centurion squads which wipe out the Khorne and Slaanesh princes.
Nurgle prince charges one squad of cents and wipes them out (this was probably a mistake!) I put Iron Arm + Cursed Earth on the Tzeentch Prince, prescience on the Screamers, and charge his knight - and do a total of 3 hullpoints, before getting 6'd on a stomp. Ouch.
He takes out the Nurgle prince even through 2+ jink & 4+ FNP, and we call it there before my turn 2.
Wow. When I was running the Nurgle Prince list last year I purposefully didn't take armor - and twice today I've been undone by my decision to take armour on the princes. OTOH I also got saved by that decision in the other games.
I probably should have reserved one or both of the armored princes, but without reserve manipulation I wasn't really game for that strategy. I probably could have held on a bit longer by:
- not charging the knight. I figured with 7 S10 attacks and 7 Armourbane attacks I could take it down, but it didn't happen. The screamers could have charged and held him up for a turn while the warlord took out a bike squad or 3.
- Multicharging with the hounds + Nurgle prince against the cents + pod so I could purposefully not wipe them out and stay in combat for an extra turn before moving on to the bikes.
Hmm so my feedback after a tournament is:
I needed more practice with this list against tough opponents before bringing it to a tournament!
I ended up with 3 wins and 2 losses over 5 games, but one of them doesn't really count because the opponent's list was very easy, and the two other wins could easily have swung the other way if I'd made one or two less Feel No Pain rolls.
Practice Game 1: Vs a Guard Tank Company.
I got first turn, got all the buffs I needed, and proceeded to wreck face. I tabled him on top of 3 and lost only 3 hounds to the one turn of shooting I allowed him before getting in to combat. It was fun to see the Slaanesh Prince put out 12 S10 shots with his whip and destroy Pask + Friends in one go, but it wasn't a good learning experience.
Game 1: VS Eldar. Maxed Seer Council, Wraithknight, 3x 6 Scatterbikes, 6x 5 Warp Spiders
This was a game against a very good general that I've had close games with before, but that wasn't the case today. He took first turn, and used his superior range + mobility to stay at absolute max range where I couldn't catch him. A 6 on the destroyer chart took out the Warlord with his 2++ rerollable, and he had enough psychic dice to deny the critical powers when I needed to cast them.
If I had the game again I think I would have taken to the air in T1 with all my princes and shrieked the scatter bikes off the board before landing and trying to do combat with the remainder.
Game 2 vs Eldar + Marines. 4 Grav Devestators + Libby in a pod, 3x 4 Scatterbikes, Wraithflamers in a Waveserpent, 6 x Warp Spiders.
He got first turn and lands the pod next to my Slaanesh Prince. It soaks up nearly his whole army's worth of shooting before dying.
I buff up and counterattack, but my nurgle prince is in a bad spot for the Wraithguard to get him next turn. Without whip from the Slaanesh Prince I have only a tiny bit of shooting and can't manage to take out the Waveserpent.
The nurgle prince gets flamered to death next turn.
For the rest of the game I chase him around the table, generally *just* missing out on killing a unit per turn on the charge and thus not taking much return fire. The Khorne prince goes down in T4, but by that time he has only 2 squads of spiders left alive.
Game 3 vs Dark Eldar with lots of venoms, raiders and flyers
Still no first turn, but a host of good powers this game. All the objectives were up his end of the board, which was good for me.
I made good use of Cursed Earth this game, with the Tzeentch prince failing all his attempted charges in to combat and just being a buff-bot all game.
I had a few turns where I soaked a truly ridiculous amount of firepower; a squad of horrors took 0 wounds from 2 venoms and a bomber shooting at them, and the Slaanesh Prince especially got caught in the open but made his 4+ FNP saves count and managed to survive on a single wound; he then charged some Kabalites and regained them all! This was a regular opponent of mine so I knew how to take him on. I surrendered my back field early (all the objectives were up his end) and tactically summoned flamers in to roast the transport contents.
Game 4 vs Iron Hands bikes + centurions / Knight / Admech
Well this was a massacre.
Turn 1 he pods in 2 centurion squads which wipe out the Khorne and Slaanesh princes.
Nurgle prince charges one squad of cents and wipes them out (this was probably a mistake!) I put Iron Arm + Cursed Earth on the Tzeentch Prince, prescience on the Screamers, and charge his knight - and do a total of 3 hullpoints, before getting 6'd on a stomp. Ouch.
He takes out the Nurgle prince even through 2+ jink & 4+ FNP, and we call it there before my turn 2.
Wow. When I was running the Nurgle Prince list last year I purposefully didn't take armor - and twice today I've been undone by my decision to take armour on the princes. OTOH I also got saved by that decision in the other games.
I probably should have reserved one or both of the armored princes, but without reserve manipulation I wasn't really game for that strategy. I probably could have held on a bit longer by:
- not charging the knight. I figured with 7 S10 attacks and 7 Armourbane attacks I could take it down, but it didn't happen. The screamers could have charged and held him up for a turn while the warlord took out a bike squad or 3.
- Multicharging with the hounds + Nurgle prince against the cents + pod so I could purposefully not wipe them out and stay in combat for an extra turn before moving on to the bikes.
Thanks for sharing.
The Tetrad does take some practice, especially against some of the tournament-styles of lists. That is because they are a less forgiving army than, say, Eldar or Battle Company.
Did the tournament use the new GWFAQ's? If so, did you feel that they made any difference in any of your games? Thanks.
The Tetrad does take some practice, especially against some of the tournament-styles of lists. That is because they are a less forgiving army than, say, Eldar or Battle Company.
Did the tournament use the new GWFAQ's? If so, did you feel that they made any difference in any of your games? Thanks.
No, the new FAQs weren't used. We used the AUS/NZ 40kFAQ which hasn't been updated.
That being said I don't think it made any difference. The only thing that really would have affected me was the Shriek change, and with effectively TL BS5 I managed to hit with all of them anyway.
I guess I just struggled with the 'delete 1 unit' abilities, which I guess is to be expected when you've essentially got only 4 units. Stomps are rough, D-Weapons are rough, suicide grav is rough. Even with all the buffs and gifts, tournament-level offensive armies won't struggle at all to take down at least one T6 3+ SvMC per turn, and you're losing about a 20% of your army potential every time that happens. If you don't get first turn and need to weather 2 turns of fire before you get to combat...you'd better hope the remaining 2 can stay in combat for the rest of the game.
The Tetrad does take some practice, especially against some of the tournament-styles of lists. That is because they are a less forgiving army than, say, Eldar or Battle Company.
Did the tournament use the new GWFAQ's? If so, did you feel that they made any difference in any of your games? Thanks.
No, the new FAQs weren't used. We used the AUS/NZ 40kFAQ which hasn't been updated.
That being said I don't think it made any difference. The only thing that really would have affected me was the Shriek change, and with effectively TL BS5 I managed to hit with all of them anyway.
I guess I just struggled with the 'delete 1 unit' abilities, which I guess is to be expected when you've essentially got only 4 units. Stomps are rough, D-Weapons are rough, suicide grav is rough. Even with all the buffs and gifts, tournament-level offensive armies won't struggle at all to take down at least one T6 3+ SvMC per turn, and you're losing about a 20% of your army potential every time that happens. If you don't get first turn and need to weather 2 turns of fire before you get to combat...you'd better hope the remaining 2 can stay in combat for the rest of the game.
The Khorne and Slaanesh DPs are the easiest to kill without any buffs to make them better than 3++ or getting invis. Basically against flyrants, mass grav, and scatter bikes one of them will die if they are gliding. The only reason Id take Belakor is so that he can guarantee shroud and invis to keep the most vulnerable princes alive, even if you roll crappy gifts.... So the only thing you have to worry are the few armies that can ignore cover.
Trasvi wrote: Hmm so my feedback after a tournament is:
I needed more practice with this list against tough opponents before bringing it to a tournament!
I ended up with 3 wins and 2 losses over 5 games, but one of them doesn't really count because the opponent's list was very easy, and the two other wins could easily have swung the other way if I'd made one or two less Feel No Pain rolls.
Practice Game 1: Vs a Guard Tank Company.
I got first turn, got all the buffs I needed, and proceeded to wreck face. I tabled him on top of 3 and lost only 3 hounds to the one turn of shooting I allowed him before getting in to combat. It was fun to see the Slaanesh Prince put out 12 S10 shots with his whip and destroy Pask + Friends in one go, but it wasn't a good learning experience.
Game 1: VS Eldar. Maxed Seer Council, Wraithknight, 3x 6 Scatterbikes, 6x 5 Warp Spiders
This was a game against a very good general that I've had close games with before, but that wasn't the case today. He took first turn, and used his superior range + mobility to stay at absolute max range where I couldn't catch him. A 6 on the destroyer chart took out the Warlord with his 2++ rerollable, and he had enough psychic dice to deny the critical powers when I needed to cast them.
If I had the game again I think I would have taken to the air in T1 with all my princes and shrieked the scatter bikes off the board before landing and trying to do combat with the remainder.
Game 2 vs Eldar + Marines. 4 Grav Devestators + Libby in a pod, 3x 4 Scatterbikes, Wraithflamers in a Waveserpent, 6 x Warp Spiders.
He got first turn and lands the pod next to my Slaanesh Prince. It soaks up nearly his whole army's worth of shooting before dying.
I buff up and counterattack, but my nurgle prince is in a bad spot for the Wraithguard to get him next turn. Without whip from the Slaanesh Prince I have only a tiny bit of shooting and can't manage to take out the Waveserpent.
The nurgle prince gets flamered to death next turn.
For the rest of the game I chase him around the table, generally *just* missing out on killing a unit per turn on the charge and thus not taking much return fire. The Khorne prince goes down in T4, but by that time he has only 2 squads of spiders left alive.
Game 3 vs Dark Eldar with lots of venoms, raiders and flyers
Still no first turn, but a host of good powers this game. All the objectives were up his end of the board, which was good for me.
I made good use of Cursed Earth this game, with the Tzeentch prince failing all his attempted charges in to combat and just being a buff-bot all game.
I had a few turns where I soaked a truly ridiculous amount of firepower; a squad of horrors took 0 wounds from 2 venoms and a bomber shooting at them, and the Slaanesh Prince especially got caught in the open but made his 4+ FNP saves count and managed to survive on a single wound; he then charged some Kabalites and regained them all! This was a regular opponent of mine so I knew how to take him on. I surrendered my back field early (all the objectives were up his end) and tactically summoned flamers in to roast the transport contents.
Game 4 vs Iron Hands bikes + centurions / Knight / Admech
Well this was a massacre.
Turn 1 he pods in 2 centurion squads which wipe out the Khorne and Slaanesh princes.
Nurgle prince charges one squad of cents and wipes them out (this was probably a mistake!) I put Iron Arm + Cursed Earth on the Tzeentch Prince, prescience on the Screamers, and charge his knight - and do a total of 3 hullpoints, before getting 6'd on a stomp. Ouch.
He takes out the Nurgle prince even through 2+ jink & 4+ FNP, and we call it there before my turn 2.
Wow. When I was running the Nurgle Prince list last year I purposefully didn't take armor - and twice today I've been undone by my decision to take armour on the princes. OTOH I also got saved by that decision in the other games.
I probably should have reserved one or both of the armored princes, but without reserve manipulation I wasn't really game for that strategy. I probably could have held on a bit longer by:
- not charging the knight. I figured with 7 S10 attacks and 7 Armourbane attacks I could take it down, but it didn't happen. The screamers could have charged and held him up for a turn while the warlord took out a bike squad or 3.
- Multicharging with the hounds + Nurgle prince against the cents + pod so I could purposefully not wipe them out and stay in combat for an extra turn before moving on to the bikes.
Nice report. Im curious as to how useful you found the Herald with paradox to be. Being able to functionally guarantee certain WC intensive powers (summoning, prescience) with relatively few dice strikes me as having a lot of utility. On the other hand in a WC starved list such as the Tetrad it might not be such a good fit. I can definitely see it being useful in lists that generate 20+ WC but I have yet to play with any of the new Daemons fornations and toys so this is all theoryhammer for me.
i play a tetrad list which generate 16 CW and paradox herald is a strong option, i can save some extra dice and grant one power any turn will work, usually i use for summon.If someone is interested i could post a battle report from latest tournament i did about 1 month ago with tetrad.
blackmage wrote: i play a tetrad list which generate 16 CW and paradox herald is a strong option, i can save some extra dice and grant one power any turn will work, usually i use for summon.If someone is interested i could post a battle report from latest tournament i did about 1 month ago with tetrad.
astro_nomicon wrote: Nice report. Im curious as to how useful you found the Herald with paradox to be. Being able to functionally guarantee certain WC intensive powers (summoning, prescience) with relatively few dice strikes me as having a lot of utility. On the other hand in a WC starved list such as the Tetrad it might not be such a good fit. I can definitely see it being useful in lists that generate 20+ WC but I have yet to play with any of the new Daemons fornations and toys so this is all theoryhammer for me.
The Paradox is fantastic. A++. Definitely would take it over the Grimoire unless you have Fateweaver.
The two games that were actually a bit of a contest the Paradox did work. He always rolls once on Divination for Prescience, and twice on Malefic (hoping for Incursion / CE/ Sac and Summoning). 3 dice on guaranteed prescience or 5 on summoning is amazing. Prescience isn't as important for the princes while 2 are left alive for rerolls of 1s, but you really want to make as many of their attacks hit as possible.
I did rememeber one case where the new FAQ would have changed things: in the first game, my opponent was using a Seer Council that was casting Guide twice per turn. He was using 5 dice for each cast so I would have needed to roll all my dice to dispel, so I didn't bother. Under the new FAQ this wouldn't have been allowed and I could have actually reduced some of his damage output rather than being resigned to "If I blow all my dice to dispel it this time then he's just going to cast it again straight after".
1st game relic+maelstrom ITC mission2
my list
demon CAD tz herald lev2°, paradox
N herald lev2° greater reward locus of fecundity doomsday bell
11 horrors
10 plaguebearers
Tetrad
K DP armor of scorn 2 greater 1 lesser wings
N DP wings armor 2 greater lev3°
SLDP wings armor 2 greater lev.3°
Tz DP wings imp,robe 2 greater 1 lesser lev3° warlord
KDK list
chaos lord juggernaut,, power fist sigil corruption
3x 8 bloodletter 2 with instrument and 1 with icon
2x10 hounds
2 grinders with flame
renegade IK with double gatling cannon
I won initiative and decided to start, just to avoid his hounds can sit over the relic, all princes beside Sl went gliding slDP move on relic, pb in deepstrike and horrors+herald on my obj, he keep out both grinders and the squads of letters
SLDP shoot 2d6str 10 (iron arm) to his knight strip down only 2 HP, all 3 princes charge the hounds+lord, lord challenged and killed by N prince, Tz and K DP kill about 7 hounds (both DP swing at str8), Tz herald summon 10 demonettes waiting for hound onslaught
his knight take an heavy tool on horrors kill 5 of them regardless going to gound and save at 3+, hiunds charged SL prince try to steal the relic but FNP and good armor save make them almost bounce on him,2 hounds was killed by SLDP. the other 3 princes dispatch the remaining 3 dogs,
In my turn i drop the PB+herald over the top of his obj but i scattered bit away, K and Tz princes point on knight and N prince get into postiion to charge hounds demonettes move near my obj, and i summon 3 screamers with herald, killed about 5 hounds but still 3 remain, Knight is engaged and destroyed by tz+k dp, tz dp rolled armorbane from reward so was not very difficult remove him,
his reserves coming, 2x letter and 1 grinder all close to my obj in my dep.zone. with grinder flame he removed other 3 horrors, hounds make nothing to DP's and was killed same turn now i have all the DP free and close to his grinder and letters
a charge on grinder make it explode and letters was engaged so they cant reach my obj and treathen horrors, pb move on his obj and sit,waiting screamers moved on relic
all his reserve came in another grinder drake and 8 letters he tried to burn pb on his obj but FNP made them survive enough to hold the obj and score maelstrom, he have not a lot do i have still 4 unwounded princes and i have both relic and the two obj under my control he have only drake grinder and 8 letters, i let the drake go around i charged the grinder with pb+herald with warp speed but i cant kill it and do just 2 HP he managed to kill 2 pb, at that point he figured cant reach any of my obj i keep summoning so no way to get into my obj the best he could do is try to kill all my pb but between save and FNP he cant i got relic lot of maelstrom first strike and slay the warlord he got nothing so was 11-0 for me.
Automatically Appended Next Post: 2nd game ITC scenario 3 purge the alien
opponent was an eldar with some D weapons
4x4 scatter bikes
3x2 D batteries
WK with double D weapon
5+5+5 spiders
2 farseers with bike
this game was weird we both deployed and i got a phone call i needed to leave in hurry the tourney i was away for 1 hour when i came back we started play anyway but of course he already won cause i left the game, we played 2 turrns with me in swooping mode killing bikes with psy scream and vector strike and him killing my troops and score some maelstrom point after 2 turn we was drawing so he, a real gentleman agree to have a draw with me so i got my 6 tourney points, probably if we still play couple of turns maybe i could talke victory he cant touch easily my DP when i m swooping, spiders cant wound them neither the D weapons cant touch my flying superheroes, the problem with that kind of list is if were not a kp mission woudl be very hard for me score points i cant easily go in glide mode, too much D shots and scatter shots, my troops cant survive enough to score points so would be a very hard match, but at KP you can manage with scream vector strikes and some psy shoots. anyway was intersting also if short
I've found that if you have the ability to reroll saves, or have a 2+ cover, the D-lite is not that scary. (D-lite being the D from Eldar that
Sure, you don't want to be hit by it constantly, as you can lose d3 wounds if you fail -- but risking one round is not to bad.
Nothing earth shattering but I think it should perform decently. Obviously suffers from the same bad match ups as most Tetrads. I know Be'la is a great force multiplier, but I have a similar experience/gut feeling as labmouse about him. Lord of Change is a little tougher natively and ideally he flies around summoning a unit a turn until its safe enough to land. Might switch out one unit of horrors for two units of nurglings to help with null deploy options should the need arise.
they did not have D lite, they had D battery so normal D and wraithknight D wraithcannons, the unit which have D lite are wraitguard with scyhtes....
Automatically Appended Next Post: 3rd game ITC mission 1
against a marine war convocation
demi cimpany
assault squad 4 space marines+sergeant
devastator squad 2x lascannon
3x tactical squad with melta razorback with heavy bolter
marine CAD chaplain with auspex
captain storm shield relic blade thunder hammer
2x tactical squad grav cannon+amplifier razorbak
3x centurion with grav cannon
3x thuderfire
i won the die roll to start but he seize init, 1st turn was night
i know i can have some troubles score enough maelstrom points, he put his obj into a ruin and put there also thunderfires and fortified it, he moved on the 18" away obj and try to start score maelstrom points, he started (and made an error in my opinion) to shoot at my Nurgle tz prince but between jinking with +1 and FNP he made nothing , i glide with all my prince beside Sl as usual, sl prince shoot 2d6 hits on razorback sitting on obj and destroy it, tactical squad disemark and was charged by K prince, but i was very unlucky and killed only 2 marines....so he scored the maelstrom point, but i made first blood, in my turn i summoned plague drones on an obj hope to get some maelstrom points too, princes shoots shrieks to thunderfire and with a nice 16 i managed to remove 2 techmarine 1 thunderfire and wound another, not bad, but thanks to chaplain he did not fallen back, korne DP finished off the remaining 3 tactical marines and consolidate toward thunderfire (who kill the most costly unit get 1 victory point in this scenatrio and thudnerfire was his most costly unit), anyway with the remaining thunderfire he got lot of hits on my plague drones and manage to kill ALL of them.... uhmmmm.....so no maelstom point for me this turn, he keep trying to wound my DP with low success some wounds here and there, nothing critical, i start make maelstrom point with my plague bearers sitting on a obj in a ruin i think he made another mistake keep shooting at DP instead focus on my troops and strip me away maelstrom points i did during the game last turn he tried run toward my base with a razorback but during my turn SL prince killed his rarorback and then 5 tactical marines was anillathed, so i saved my base, he had 3 razor with tactical at 3" from his base,so for me impossible dislodge him so emperor will obj was a draw, i scored 1 more maelstrom point first blood big game hunter we draw quadrants and linebreaker, so won by 3 points, i guess if he tried since 1st turn to take down my troops probably he could have a chance to win or would be very close, cause i scored 2 maelstrom points with my plaguebearer,probably he losted game when he seized init going last made me play easily and got points enough to win.
Final considerations: tetrad is funny and a good list, but you suffer a lot some lists like gladius marines, you must think any game what powers and rewards take and many other things to plan each turn, pb+herald if in cover are great, the N herald with a greater reward (aetherblade most of time) is a good melee character in one game i rolled warp speed and iron arm ,for eight str 9 hits in charge, in 3 games i lost only couple of horror units and 1DP after a failed warp perils which grounded me... i like the list but i dont think it can really shine in hyper competitive tiurney. Thanks for reading and sorry if i missed something but 1 month passed since that tourney. I made a 3 place so i m happy with my tetrad
FWIW, I posted my first run and batrep with a Tetrad here. The game itself was a bit of a wash on my end, but was fun nonetheless. I opted to run Typhus/sorcerer/zombies with my tetrad.
Symbiode wrote: I made some data cards to keep rewards straight for each prince, they're below if anyone finds them useful. Any feedback on additional things to put on the cards would be great too, I just got all my princes together yesterday so I haven't gotten a chance to use them yet and see exactly what I need.
I figure that I can stick with the usual strategy of Slaanesh in the sky, shriek/lash combo, but no chance of iron arm. Nurgle will probably jink, so no point in having the ML on him. Tzeentch with robes will never jink, so I can fish for cursed earth, or just get summoning and if I roll high, try to get some pinkies or flesh hounds.
and what do you think to do with 2+d6WC? think is very low also for cursed heart if you roll 1 you could fail also a simple cursed heart, probably at this point i will cut both ML and add some greter/exalted/lesser rewards, help more than just +2 WC.
Good point, that is 2 more greater and another lesser reward! Could give the khorne one a lesser, Tzeentch a greater, and either slaanesh or nurgle another greater.
survaivalbility increase dramatically with 2x greater rewards, i m sure you will not miss 2 WC. things like 4+FNP or repeat inv or also +1w and IWND are big, in particular at lower points where opponent could be unable to deal with such though models.
Have a 2k game scheduled against an eldar army next week. Doing the Tetrad, Tallyband, and Fateweaver...and then realized I'm going to be up against, most likely, scatriders, warpspiders, and dark reapers...so all those Nurglings are going to get doubled out quick.
TheSnowmanInHell wrote: Have a 2k game scheduled against an eldar army next week. Doing the Tetrad, Tallyband, and Fateweaver...and then realized I'm going to be up against, most likely, scatriders, warpspiders, and dark reapers...so all those Nurglings are going to get doubled out quick.
Anyone have any advice?
You might be better off just adding a CAD with Fatey and a bunch of pink horrors/ML3 tzeentch heralds (one with paradox) and just continuously summon stuff all game while the Tetrad does its thing. You could probably get up toward 25-30 dice to fuel Fatey, summoning, and your Tetrad buffs at 2K pretty easily. Unfortunately you lose the objective corruption and warp storm manipulation, but it would probably be tough to cram a (useful) warp flame host in along with the Tetrad AND Fatey.
Hmmm...was really hoping to run an Incursion, but I think you might be right that a CAD would be better. The player is deathly afraid of Flickering Fire after I took out a squad of swooping hawks...so lots of horrors it is.
TheSnowmanInHell wrote: Hmmm...was really hoping to run an Incursion, but I think you might be right that a CAD would be better. The player is deathly afraid of Flickering Fire after I took out a squad of swooping hawks...so lots of horrors it is.
Stick with the Tallyband and run the -1LD relic. Then park those nurglings and objectives in ruins and then laugh as he wastes his firepower into 2+ cover.
whembly wrote: Has anyone tried using Tallyband+Infernal Tetrad?
Pretty sure the Tallyband is one of the more popular options to supplement the Tetrad.
I played a Tallyband +CSM... in the CSM detachment, I brought csm deamon prince, fireraptor and Brass Scorpion.
Tallyband (nurglings) ended up being just distraction and gobbled up objectives... the prince+Scorpion did the heavy lifting.
I did "okay", but having 2 models to engage the enemy (a 3rd being the fire raptor) seems too lightweight.
Thinking of going all out with Tallyband+Tetrad:
-Nurgle hearld (ml2, exalted, bell)
-7 x 3man nurglings
-Kranak
-Loaded Tetrad.
Now I just have to assemble my 3 NiB Deamon princes...
From what I have seen the tallyband is just used as cheap objective holders, nurglings don't exactly have a punch.
If you have the points the Tzeentch formation (can't remember its name right now) is much more powerful for punching holes in things. The exalted flamers are particularly good: 9xd3 Str10 ap2 warpflame/soulblaze OR 9xStr5 ap3 flamers. Very nasty.
whembly wrote: Has anyone tried using Tallyband+Infernal Tetrad?
Yes, a full Daemonic Incursion detachment with Tallyband, Tetrad and Daemon Flock of Furies. It worked very well. I strongly recommend trying it out.
I took 6x Nurgling units and a unit of plaguebearers for my Tallyband, gave the herald ML2 and the bell, and camp him in backfield ruins with the plaguebearers. With 6 Nurgling units infiltrating or deep striking all over the place and 4 DPs rushing up the table my opponent had more pressing conceres than my herald.
whembly wrote: Has anyone tried using Tallyband+Infernal Tetrad?
Yes, a full Daemonic Incursion detachment with Tallyband, Tetrad and Daemon Flock of Furies. It worked very well. I strongly recommend trying it out.
I took 6x Nurgling units and a unit of plaguebearers for my Tallyband, gave the herald ML2 and the bell, and camp him in backfield ruins with the plaguebearers. With 6 Nurgling units infiltrating or deep striking all over the place and 4 DPs rushing up the table my opponent had more pressing conceres than my herald.
Sounds intriguing.
Has anyone tried Kranak (instead of Furies)? Seems counter-intuitive with a Tetrad (psyker heavy), but considering conclaves/eldar psyker are still a "thing"... he could serve as a "speed bump" against psyker units?
Regarding a small points-value army, such as the one gwarsh was thinking of above- rolling on the tzeentch table seems like a no-brainer for warlord traits, but if you're not taking any mastery levels, which trait list do you guys like best? I personally like the look of Nurgle and Slaanesh, and am thinking about pulling out a 1000 point list tonight for some funzo games with my friends just to finally bust my princes out onto the table. Kinda limited to 1000 because of their armies being small still, unless I can convince them to 2v1 for a larger amount of points.
Well there is only 1 trait on Tzeentch that is caster related, but you might end up with 4 Tzeentch casters, which would kind of stink, so I guess you would then have aonly a 50% chance of a decent warlord trait. (I think that is how the +1ML would work, they all would have to generate on Tzeentch because they were not psykers, right?)
I'll have to take a look at the other WTs, I hadn't considered that!
Err, I phrased that very poorly, I meant it's a no-brainer outside of low points, but in a list without psyker levels it's a very dangerous trait list to roll on, I feel. I think it's not worth the risk of getting something like the "manifesting on 3+" trait when you have no psykers to begin with. My bad.
I didn't get a chance to try the tetrad out that night :(
whembly wrote: Has anyone tried using Tallyband+Infernal Tetrad?
At WillowWars this past Sunday I ran the Tetrad with Tallyband, and it has renewed my intrest in 40k! So much fun.
List at a glance:
Tetrad: Khorne DP Armour of Scorn, x2 greater, x1 lesser, Nurgle DP, x2 greater ML 3, Tzeentch DP x2 greater, x1 lesser, Impossible robes, ML 3, WL, Slaanesh DP, Armour, ML3, x2 greater, soulstealer
Talleyband: Nurgle Herald ML 2, doombell, FnP locus, x6 nuglings, x1 plaguebearers, x1 Nurgle Furies
Game 1: This was a massacre, I tabled him by turn two. Very new player and I got super lucky with powers. Rolled +1 ML for each DP and I just screamed everything to death.
Game 2: This was an interesting game. It was ITC scenario 4. and I was playing against another Daemonic Incursion list with the Tzeentch core, D-thirster, LoC, and Fatey. I got first turn and I had crap powers and crap gifts. I got first turn and infiltrated all my nurglings on objectives. By end of first turn I had control of 4 out of 6 objectives and still had 4 squads of Nurglings in reserve. I flew my Slaanesh and Nurgle DP's up the right flank, and glided my Tzeentch and Khorne DP up the left flank. His D-thirster LoC came fast and hard at my left flank. Fatey flew over the central LOS blocking terrain and was ready to psychic my nurglings. His horrors cast a bunch of flickering fire at my Slaanesh DP, causing 1 wound. I failed my toughness test and took 3 more wounds, dying. His Exalted flamers cause 1 Str 10 wound on my Nurgle Prince and he fails his 2+ save, dying. His D-thirster charges my Tzeentch DP, Ding him out. But his LoC charges a squad of nurglings. My nurglings did 1 wound to his LoC and he fails his Ld check dying. What a bloody turn!
Turn two all my nurglings come in and I get them in position to keep my objectives. I charge my plaguebearers, herald, and Khorne DP at his D-thirster. His Thirster challenges, and I accept with my herald. My herald explodes, and nothing else happens. His turn Fatey takes a wound from a perils and grounds himself. My Khorne DP then instant kills his D-thirster.
On my turn 3 I fly over my khorne DP to Fatey and charge 3 squads of nurglings into a central squad of horrors. Khorne DP kills Fatey and the nurglings barely win combat. At this point he waslike, Oh dang, so he summoned another D-thirster with a unit of horrors.
my turn 4 I move my Khorne Dp into a position to charge his unit of furies to stop them from taking the 3 point objective in my deployment zone. Nurglings still hold in combat, but he had a grimoire herald in the combat, so I didn't do much. His turn 4 he moves the D-thirster into in striking range of my Khorne Dp and summons a unit of screamers to try and take objectives from my nurglings. Nurgling horror slap fight continues with me losing by 1 and taking another wound or two from DI.
My turn 5 I move my Khorne DP into position right next to his D-thirster but in range of a charge to an exalted flamer on a central objective, and everything else is in combat except for 1 fury left keeping an objective for me. I fail the 9 inch charge to the exalted flamer and the nurglings suffer another few wounds without doing anything. He flies his D-thirster over and kills my fury taking the objective from me. He rolls for game to end, but it goes on.
My turn 6 I'm losing objectives and nurglings fast now, so I charge my Khorne DP into the Exalted flamer to get the objective back and get closer to the nurgling horror slap fight. I easily kill the exalted horror and my last nurgling base in the horror fight dies. His D-thirster flies over to charge my Khorne DP and he moves some horrors and flamers around to cap some objectives that I took from him with my deep striking nurglings. He charges my Khorne DP and I instant kill him through a 2++ save! I love the Axe of Khorne! I roll to see if the game ends, but it goes on.
My turn 7 I charge my khorne DP into the horror unit by the objective and kill the grimoire herald, my last nurgling squad dies to the screamers, losing me that objective. He then moves his screamers to the last objective in my back field and I kill off the horror unit and try to make it to line breaker, but fail by half an inch. He ends up winning 11 to 1. Really fun game, really fun opponent.
Game 3 Played against a 14 dropod space wolves army. I get decent powers and great gifts. He seizes the initiative and drops everything to try and kill my DP of Tzeentch. His eye of the storm power gets 27 hits and does 1 wound after 3++ and 4+ FNP. After that I kill 3-4 units a turn with my DP's taking a total of 4 wounds between my 4 DP's and winning 11-1. The soulstealer sword really gets super powered when you roll +1 W, it will not die, and warp speed.
So there you have it, I realy like this army and will say that the +/- to the warpstorm table is amazing. The worst thing that happened to me was my Khorne DP got hit once by the Dark prince thirsts. And playing another daemon army with more characters is interesting for re-thinking which warpstorm results are useful =P causing his characters to take DI by my warpstorm was a really weird experience.
whembly wrote: Has anyone tried using Tallyband+Infernal Tetrad?
At WillowWars this past Sunday I ran the Tetrad with Tallyband, and it has renewed my intrest in 40k! So much fun.
List at a glance:
Tetrad: Khorne DP Armour of Scorn, x2 greater, x1 lesser, Nurgle DP, x2 greater ML 3, Tzeentch DP x2 greater, x1 lesser, Impossible robes, ML 3, WL, Slaanesh DP, Armour, ML3, x2 greater, soulstealer
Talleyband: Nurgle Herald ML 2, doombell, FnP locus, x6 nuglings, x1 plaguebearers, x1 Nurgle Furies
Game 1: This was a massacre, I tabled him by turn two. Very new player and I got super lucky with powers. Rolled +1 ML for each DP and I just screamed everything to death.
Game 2: This was an interesting game. It was ITC scenario 4. and I was playing against another Daemonic Incursion list with the Tzeentch core, D-thirster, LoC, and Fatey. I got first turn and I had crap powers and crap gifts. I got first turn and infiltrated all my nurglings on objectives. By end of first turn I had control of 4 out of 6 objectives and still had 4 squads of Nurglings in reserve. I flew my Slaanesh and Nurgle DP's up the right flank, and glided my Tzeentch and Khorne DP up the left flank. His D-thirster LoC came fast and hard at my left flank. Fatey flew over the central LOS blocking terrain and was ready to psychic my nurglings. His horrors cast a bunch of flickering fire at my Slaanesh DP, causing 1 wound. I failed my toughness test and took 3 more wounds, dying. His Exalted flamers cause 1 Str 10 wound on my Nurgle Prince and he fails his 2+ save, dying. His D-thirster charges my Tzeentch DP, Ding him out. But his LoC charges a squad of nurglings. My nurglings did 1 wound to his LoC and he fails his Ld check dying. What a bloody turn!
Turn two all my nurglings come in and I get them in position to keep my objectives. I charge my plaguebearers, herald, and Khorne DP at his D-thirster. His Thirster challenges, and I accept with my herald. My herald explodes, and nothing else happens. His turn Fatey takes a wound from a perils and grounds himself. My Khorne DP then instant kills his D-thirster.
On my turn 3 I fly over my khorne DP to Fatey and charge 3 squads of nurglings into a central squad of horrors. Khorne DP kills Fatey and the nurglings barely win combat. At this point he waslike, Oh dang, so he summoned another D-thirster with a unit of horrors.
my turn 4 I move my Khorne Dp into a position to charge his unit of furies to stop them from taking the 3 point objective in my deployment zone. Nurglings still hold in combat, but he had a grimoire herald in the combat, so I didn't do much. His turn 4 he moves the D-thirster into in striking range of my Khorne Dp and summons a unit of screamers to try and take objectives from my nurglings. Nurgling horror slap fight continues with me losing by 1 and taking another wound or two from DI.
My turn 5 I move my Khorne DP into position right next to his D-thirster but in range of a charge to an exalted flamer on a central objective, and everything else is in combat except for 1 fury left keeping an objective for me. I fail the 9 inch charge to the exalted flamer and the nurglings suffer another few wounds without doing anything. He flies his D-thirster over and kills my fury taking the objective from me. He rolls for game to end, but it goes on.
My turn 6 I'm losing objectives and nurglings fast now, so I charge my Khorne DP into the Exalted flamer to get the objective back and get closer to the nurgling horror slap fight. I easily kill the exalted horror and my last nurgling base in the horror fight dies. His D-thirster flies over to charge my Khorne DP and he moves some horrors and flamers around to cap some objectives that I took from him with my deep striking nurglings. He charges my Khorne DP and I instant kill him through a 2++ save! I love the Axe of Khorne! I roll to see if the game ends, but it goes on.
My turn 7 I charge my khorne DP into the horror unit by the objective and kill the grimoire herald, my last nurgling squad dies to the screamers, losing me that objective. He then moves his screamers to the last objective in my back field and I kill off the horror unit and try to make it to line breaker, but fail by half an inch. He ends up winning 11 to 1. Really fun game, really fun opponent.
Game 3 Played against a 14 dropod space wolves army. I get decent powers and great gifts. He seizes the initiative and drops everything to try and kill my DP of Tzeentch. His eye of the storm power gets 27 hits and does 1 wound after 3++ and 4+ FNP. After that I kill 3-4 units a turn with my DP's taking a total of 4 wounds between my 4 DP's and winning 11-1. The soulstealer sword really gets super powered when you roll +1 W, it will not die, and warp speed.
So there you have it, I realy like this army and will say that the +/- to the warpstorm table is amazing. The worst thing that happened to me was my Khorne DP got hit once by the Dark prince thirsts. And playing another daemon army with more characters is interesting for re-thinking which warpstorm results are useful =P causing his characters to take DI by my warpstorm was a really weird experience.
Hi!
I was at the same tournament. I was the Space Wolves Wulfen player and a friend of your round #2 opponent. As a matter of fact, part of his army was actually my models, including the D-Thirster and the LoC. It looked like a very interesting battle between the 2 of you. It's no shame to lose to Jeremy (aka the French Overlord aka MikhailLenin here on dakka). He is a really good player and a multiple-GT winner. That was actually his first time playing Daemons since 5E, but he's definitely has enough experience playing against mine (and other's) Daemons.
I would have loved to play against your Tetrad but I guess it would have to be sometime in the future instead. Cheers!
I'm really happy to see the tallyband and tetrad combo is good, I started building pretty much the same list up, and then it seemed like people were more for tzeentch/slaanesh stuff so I was left wondering if I was making a subpar army. But my god of choice is Nurgle, so I stuck with it and I'm working on my last DP then I can field it. Slaanesh - DP kitbashed with wraithlord.
whembly wrote: Has anyone tried using Tallyband+Infernal Tetrad?
Spoiler:
At WillowWars this past Sunday I ran the Tetrad with Tallyband, and it has renewed my intrest in 40k! So much fun.
List at a glance:
Tetrad: Khorne DP Armour of Scorn, x2 greater, x1 lesser, Nurgle DP, x2 greater ML 3, Tzeentch DP x2 greater, x1 lesser, Impossible robes, ML 3, WL, Slaanesh DP, Armour, ML3, x2 greater, soulstealer
Talleyband: Nurgle Herald ML 2, doombell, FnP locus, x6 nuglings, x1 plaguebearers, x1 Nurgle Furies
Game 1: This was a massacre, I tabled him by turn two. Very new player and I got super lucky with powers. Rolled +1 ML for each DP and I just screamed everything to death.
Game 2: This was an interesting game. It was ITC scenario 4. and I was playing against another Daemonic Incursion list with the Tzeentch core, D-thirster, LoC, and Fatey. I got first turn and I had crap powers and crap gifts. I got first turn and infiltrated all my nurglings on objectives. By end of first turn I had control of 4 out of 6 objectives and still had 4 squads of Nurglings in reserve. I flew my Slaanesh and Nurgle DP's up the right flank, and glided my Tzeentch and Khorne DP up the left flank. His D-thirster LoC came fast and hard at my left flank. Fatey flew over the central LOS blocking terrain and was ready to psychic my nurglings. His horrors cast a bunch of flickering fire at my Slaanesh DP, causing 1 wound. I failed my toughness test and took 3 more wounds, dying. His Exalted flamers cause 1 Str 10 wound on my Nurgle Prince and he fails his 2+ save, dying. His D-thirster charges my Tzeentch DP, Ding him out. But his LoC charges a squad of nurglings. My nurglings did 1 wound to his LoC and he fails his Ld check dying. What a bloody turn!
Turn two all my nurglings come in and I get them in position to keep my objectives. I charge my plaguebearers, herald, and Khorne DP at his D-thirster. His Thirster challenges, and I accept with my herald. My herald explodes, and nothing else happens. His turn Fatey takes a wound from a perils and grounds himself. My Khorne DP then instant kills his D-thirster.
On my turn 3 I fly over my khorne DP to Fatey and charge 3 squads of nurglings into a central squad of horrors. Khorne DP kills Fatey and the nurglings barely win combat. At this point he waslike, Oh dang, so he summoned another D-thirster with a unit of horrors.
my turn 4 I move my Khorne Dp into a position to charge his unit of furies to stop them from taking the 3 point objective in my deployment zone. Nurglings still hold in combat, but he had a grimoire herald in the combat, so I didn't do much. His turn 4 he moves the D-thirster into in striking range of my Khorne Dp and summons a unit of screamers to try and take objectives from my nurglings. Nurgling horror slap fight continues with me losing by 1 and taking another wound or two from DI.
My turn 5 I move my Khorne DP into position right next to his D-thirster but in range of a charge to an exalted flamer on a central objective, and everything else is in combat except for 1 fury left keeping an objective for me. I fail the 9 inch charge to the exalted flamer and the nurglings suffer another few wounds without doing anything. He flies his D-thirster over and kills my fury taking the objective from me. He rolls for game to end, but it goes on.
My turn 6 I'm losing objectives and nurglings fast now, so I charge my Khorne DP into the Exalted flamer to get the objective back and get closer to the nurgling horror slap fight. I easily kill the exalted horror and my last nurgling base in the horror fight dies. His D-thirster flies over to charge my Khorne DP and he moves some horrors and flamers around to cap some objectives that I took from him with my deep striking nurglings. He charges my Khorne DP and I instant kill him through a 2++ save! I love the Axe of Khorne! I roll to see if the game ends, but it goes on.
My turn 7 I charge my khorne DP into the horror unit by the objective and kill the grimoire herald, my last nurgling squad dies to the screamers, losing me that objective. He then moves his screamers to the last objective in my back field and I kill off the horror unit and try to make it to line breaker, but fail by half an inch. He ends up winning 11 to 1. Really fun game, really fun opponent.
Game 3 Played against a 14 dropod space wolves army. I get decent powers and great gifts. He seizes the initiative and drops everything to try and kill my DP of Tzeentch. His eye of the storm power gets 27 hits and does 1 wound after 3++ and 4+ FNP. After that I kill 3-4 units a turn with my DP's taking a total of 4 wounds between my 4 DP's and winning 11-1. The soulstealer sword really gets super powered when you roll +1 W, it will not die, and warp speed.
So there you have it, I realy like this army and will say that the +/- to the warpstorm table is amazing. The worst thing that happened to me was my Khorne DP got hit once by the Dark prince thirsts. And playing another daemon army with more characters is interesting for re-thinking which warpstorm results are useful =P causing his characters to take DI by my warpstorm was a really weird experience.
Hi!
I was at the same tournament. I was the Space Wolves Wulfen player and a friend of your round #2 opponent. As a matter of fact, part of his army was actually my models, including the D-Thirster and the LoC. It looked like a very interesting battle between the 2 of you. It's no shame to lose to Jeremy (aka the French Overlord aka MikhailLenin here on dakka). He is a really good player and a multiple-GT winner. That was actually his first time playing Daemons since 5E, but he's definitely has enough experience playing against mine (and other's) Daemons.
I would have loved to play against your Tetrad but I guess it would have to be sometime in the future instead. Cheers!
That was the best game I had all tournament and it could have gone either way. At the end he just had more units alive and was able to secure all of the objectives. I feel no shame at all!
@jy2, I look forward to when we can thrown down dice together, it should prove to be an interesting bout.
@BossJakadakk The nurglings are the secret sauce for my army. They claim all the objectives and sit in cover not being threatening at all, while the DP's go around stomping things. People focus on the DP's which can be really difficult to kill, and then they either run out of time to remove the nurglings from objectives or they kill all the nurglings, securing the win.
Hi guys,
I am trying out my first Tetrad list tomorrow against an imperial guard player, here is the list:
Tz DP- wings, ML3, greater reward, impossible robes, armour, lesser reward.
Nu DP- wings, ML3, 2xgreater reward, armour, lesser reward.
SlDP- wings, ML3, 2xgreater reward, soulstealer, armour, lesser reward.
Kh DP- wings, 2xgreater reward, armour of scorn, lesser reward.
Tz Herald- 3ML, Paradox.
9xExalt Flamers.
Furies.
2xD-Thirster.
The plan is to start the game with all of the greater daemons on the board and buff them with: cursed earth, iron arm, rewards, etc. And to have the Flamers DS down and hopefully pop several of the IG players tanks/burn any troops.
Is this a sound list/tactic? I have taken many pointers from this and other threads.
mrhappyface wrote: And to have the Flamers DS down and hopefully pop several of the IG players tanks/burn any troops.
Is this a sound list/tactic? I have taken many pointers from this and other threads.
Unless I'm mistaken, won't you be limited to snap shots with the Blue Fire from the flamers after you DS? If you're deep striking the lot you'll still probably get some hits but nowhere near as effective as if they were shooting normally.
mrhappyface wrote: And to have the Flamers DS down and hopefully pop several of the IG players tanks/burn any troops.
Is this a sound list/tactic? I have taken many pointers from this and other threads.
Unless I'm mistaken, won't you be limited to snap shots with the Blue Fire from the flamers after you DS? If you're deep striking the lot you'll still probably get some hits but nowhere near as effective as if they were shooting normally.
Oh yes, I forgot about that. {Is there a psychic power I can give them to make them relentless?} Nevermind, I have found endurance. Hopefully one of the princes will get this and I can make my blob unstoppable! (But not really)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Darksider wrote: Sure!^^ Make a battle report as soon as you can =)
Btw how much points are this? 2500?
2500pts
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Darksider wrote: Sure!^^ Make a battle report as soon as you can =)
Hey guys, I just brought my Tetrad list to BAO and got 10th place. I got really lucky with my match ups.
Game one was against a 4 knight list, but lucky for me, he didn't have any Strength D weapons. He got unlucky with his stomps and I was rolling really well for my saves. He conceded turn 4 for a 11-2 win.
Game two was against a white scars battle company with some warp spiders. I infiltrated my nurglings right next to the relic, and bubble wrapped it with my other nurgling and furies, preventing his ob sec units from getting within 3 inches of it. I ended up winning 7-2.
Game three I went up against a white scars army with a culexus assassin. I made the mistake of getting my Dp's too close to his assassin and I was tabled by the end of turn 4. It was enough of a slaughter that he was using his grav cannons on my nurglings. 11-2 loss for me.
Game four I played against a 6 flyrant list. I got the perfect storm of abilities. All 4 of my Dp's had a 3++ save and a 3+ FNP for the first two turns. I just slowly ate his flyrants and only lost my Khorne DP. It was a 10-1 win for me.
Game five I played against an 80 necron warrior list. My god, the number of bullets coming out of those dudes is impressive. I lost 3 DP's, but the soulstealer Slaanesh DP had 6 wounds, and my opponent would bring her down to 2 and I would kill a squad and she would full heal. I just barley pulled off primary, and had one run away turn on secondary giving me a 10-1 win.
Game six I played against the top dark eldar player and that was an intense game. I killed way too many bikes with warp storm and blind grenades. My saves were also on point. I made 7 saves on last turn to keep line breaker, giving me a 7-6 win.
At the end of the weekend I got 5-1 and placed 10th out of 172 people. This is by far the best I have ever done at a GT. I'm very happy with the way I played, and most of my games came down to the last turn to see who would win, the best kind of game anyone can ask for. I would be happy to write up more detailed reports if people are interested.
What I think would be nice, either in place of or along side a more detailed battle report, would be your tactical learnings from the tournament - A sort of "What did you do, what would you have done differently in hinsight against each enemy" thing :-)
Alright, I will go through my games and my thought process and do a post-match analysis. Unfortunately I didn't take any pictures of my matches because I didn't think I would do so well, but I think I will try to for games going forward. I got a little bit carried away and it may be a bit of a long read, so each game will be under a spoiler tag.
Game One
Spoiler:
Game one was against a really nice guy named Stephen who brought a 4 knight list. From memory he had 4 knights with Gatling guns and battle cannons and 2 inquisitorial warband squads with a bunch of acolytes and an order xenos inquisitor with servo skulls. It was ITC scenario 1, Emperor’s Will. This would be a bad match up for me if his knights had D-slappers, but as they didn’t I was feeling pretty confident that I could do well. My Tzeentch Dp got Staff of change, Hellfire Gaze, Dark blessing, Summoning, incursion, and sacrifice. Nurgle Dp got Balesword, Touch of uncreation, Shriek, Endurance, and warp speed. Khorne Dp got Axe of Khorne, Blade of blood, Dark blessing. Slaanesh Dp got Corpulescence, daemonic resilience, Shrouding, Smite, and Hemorrhage. I got Impenetrable Hide WL trait. For this game I was going to try an experiment and outflank half my nurglings and see if I liked that strategy. So I placed objective 1 on the right flank out in the open so he would be less inclined to take it, and he put objective 2 in the dead center of the board between two mountain, LOS blocking, impassible terrain pieces. I put my Emperor’s Will objective behind a LOS blocking building and he put his between two buildings near a crater. I won to go first and set up my Tzeentch DP on my left flank, my Nurgle DP on my right flank because I thought they could take a knight each, and my other two DP’s in the center to hopefully tag team a knight. I put my plaguebearers and herald on my Emperor’s will objective. I kept my Furies and 3 units of nurglings in deep strike reserve. Stephen set up his knights in a line across his deployment zone with his warlord knight in the middle. He put one warband squad on a hill on my right flank and his inquisitor with the other warband on his Emperor’s Will objective. He set up his servo skulls in a line across the middle of the board. With that we began the game and he failed to seize.
Turn one I rolled hold objective 1 and objective 2. I moved my Nurgle DP out to the flank to grab objective 1, corrupting it, and moved my Slaanesh and Khorne Dp’s up the middle towards Objective 2 to try and corrupt it. I moved my Tzeentch Dp into a crater on my left flank to try and draw out one of his knights. I sat my plaguebearers on my objective this turn to corrupt it. In the psychic phase I shrieked one of his acolyte squads to half strength and got shrouding off on my Slaanesh DP and failed to shriek for my last power. In the shooting phase I rolled a dark prince thirsts and failed to do anything. I ran my Khorne and Slaanesh DP’s into position to corrupt the central objective and were placed so that only one of his knights would be able to fit in the space. I also moved into range of the objective 2, corrupting it. Turn one Stephen rolled hold objective 1 and kill a unit. He moved his warlord knight and one other to the center closing in on my Slaanesh and Khorne Dp’s. He moved one knight behind them with LOS to all of my Dp’s and moved a knight to get into position to charge my Tzeentch Dp. His shooting did 0 wounds to my Dp’s, so he charged my Tzeentch and Slaanesh Dp’s. I smashed with my Slaanesh Dp and did nothing, and my Tzeentch Dp took out 5 hull points. Stephen did 0 wounds with his melee and stomp attacks.
Turn two I scored both of my objectives and rolled kill a unit and hold objective 1. Two outflanking squads came in on my left flank, basically securing line breaker for me, and two units of deep striking nurglings come in and scatter into the center of his 3 knights. I moved my Khorne Dp over the two knights in the center of the board and got into charge range of his inquisitor and that unit of acolytes. I moved my Nurgle Dp towards the center from the right flank and I began moving my plaguebearers and herald up the field to try and touch of rust a knight. For my psychic phase I finished off the acolytes and got a few buffs on my Tzeentch prince. I failed to summon. Nothing of note in my shooting phase. In my assault phase I charged my Khorne Dp into his Inquisitor and acolytes, killed the unit and my Tzeentch Dp finished off the knight he was fighting without taking a wound. The Slaanesh Dp took a hull point off of the knight she was fighting without taking any wounds in return. Stephen claimed neither of his objectives and rolled kill two units. He moved two knights to charge the Khorne Dp and shot at him doing 0 wounds. The two knights charged and the Khorne Dp did 1 hull point to one and took 1 wound for his trouble. The Slaanesh Dp did nothing and took 1 wound.
Turn three I scored both of my objectives and rolled Have a scoring unit within 12’ of enemy deployment and hold objective 1. The third outflanking squad came in on the right flank, basically securing that objective for me, and my furies came in near the center on my side of the LOS blocking terrain. I moved my Tzeentch Dp over to help out my Slaanesh Dp and I moved my Nurgle Dp to help out my Khorne Dp. Nothing of note happened in my physic phase and I ran my furies in the shooting phase to get within 3in of the central objective. My Nurgle Dp failed his charge and the Khorne Dp took 3 more hull point off of the injured knight. He took 1 more wound. My Tzeentch and Slaanesh Dp’s killed off the Warlord knight and the Tzeentch Dp died from the Explosion. Stephen got 1 maelstrom point and rolled hold both objectives. My Khorne Dp didn’t cause any damage this turn. Stephen skipped swinging and went straight for stomps. He didn’t do any wounds with his stomps. At this point Stephen decided to coincide.
I think the only things I could have done differently were to not go for my maelstrom objective on the first turn with my Nurgle Dp, as that brought him way out of position and cost me two turns of not fighting Knights with my Str 7 Armourbane attacks. I also should have deployed my plaguebearers and herald closer to the line and used a squad of nurglings or furies to hold my Emperor’s Will objective. This game went my way pretty much the entire time. I also got lucky and he failed to 6 out any of my Dp’s with his stomps.
Game Two
Spoiler:
Game two I went up against a cool dude, Cameron, who brought a white scars battle company with khan, 4 rhinos, 1 razorback, 4 Drop pods, and 3 squads of warp spiders. Assault squads had flamers, tacticals had a mix of melta combi-melta and grav, and his devastators were double grav. This mission was ITC scenario 2, the relic. I knew that this was going to be a hard mission for me to pull off because of all the scouting obsec, but I wasn’t going to let that get me down. I just had to get to the relic and bubble wrap it with units and kill a squad a turn with each Dp. That was the plan. I won the roll to go first and set up objective 1 in my deployment zone way in the back behind a building. Cameron set his up deep in his deployment zone. I got My Tzeentch Dp got Staff of change, Mutating Warp blade, Daemonic resilience, Shriek, Shrouding, and cursed earth. Nurgle Dp got Balesword, Dark blessing, Shriek, Shrouding, leech life. Khorne Dp got Axe of Khorne, Blade of blood, dark blessing. Slaanesh Dp got Lash, daemonic resilience, Shriek, Leech life, Iron Arm. I got Impenetrable Hide WL trait. I set up my Khorne and Nurgle Dp’s on my right flank, and my Slaanesh and Tzeentch Dp’s on my left flank. I deployed my plaguebearers as spread out as I could around the objective in my deployment zone, and outflanked 3 units of nurglings and infiltrated 3 units. I kept the furies in DS reserve. Cameron set up his 4 rhinos in a block on my right flank right behind one of the big mountain things in the middle of the board. He set up 2 squads of scouts near his objective 2 and the other squad in the ruins on the other side of the table. His khan razorback was held in normal reserve and had his assault squads in Drop pods, 1 tac squad in a Drop pod, and his melta command squad in a Drop pod. I infiltrated my three squads of nurglings in the center 6 inches away from the relic. He scout moved his rhinos in the block formation around the mountain thing and towards the relic. He failed to seize and the game began.
Turn one I rolled hold objective 2 (his) and kill a unit. I moved my nurglings up to the relic, picking it up. All of Dp’s glide up 12ines and get into position to attack. Got cursed earth, iron arm, and shrouding off and I summon a unit of Daemonettes in my back field from the herald. I run the daemonettes to take up as much Drop pod space as possible and I blow up a rhino with the Lash. Nurgle Dp makes the charge into the now disembarked squad, Tzeentch Dp charges a Rhino and Khorne Dp fails his charge. I kill the rhino, and drop the squad to 2 guys. They break and run from the Nurgle prince. Cameron rolled kill a unit and hold objective 1. His 2 pods of flamer assault squads came in and got on target drops to kill my nurglings. He moved a tac squad up to claim the objective. His flamers lit my nurglings up, but he spread out some of the flamer love. With 4 flamers, and with cursed earth he managed to kill 1 base from 1 squad, and 2 bases from another squad, and 2 wounds to the squad holding the relic. The rest of his shooting managed to get that 1 nurgling base to 1 wound.
Turn two I scored 1 of my objectives and rolled have at least 3 units in your DZ and 0 opponents and kill a unit. Two of my nurgling units came in and I got them near his two scout squads holding his objective 2. My furies came in and landed on my side of no-mans, right around where I wanted to move my relic nurglings to. I run away with the relic using the other big mountain thing as a shield from the back. My other two injured nurglings come in and bubble wrapped around the relic. My Dp’s got ready to kill a bunch of tactical and assault marines that were all within 6 inches of all my Dp’s. My daemonettes moved in to try and kill a Drop pod. In my psychic phase I shrieked a squad away, stream of corrupted a few marines away, and got cursed earth off. In the shooting phase I ran my furies around my relic nurglings completing the Drop pod defense bubble wrap, and killed some marines with Lash. The Nurgle Dp charged the 2 man squad that ran away from last turn, my Khorne and Tzeentch Dp’s charged two tac squads, and the daemonettes charged the Drop pod. I killed all units I charged. Cameron’s turn two he scored neither of his objectives and his command squad and khan fail to come in. His tac squad Drop pod scatters off the table and I place it in the far corner away from everything. Two of his warp spider units come in and deep strike near my bubble wrapped relic bearing nurgling. He starts to move one of his rhinos around the big mountain to try and go for the other flank, and keeps his one devastator squad in its rhino with a hunter’s eye chaplain. He shoots at the nurglings kill the squad with 1 wound left, and manages to get another 2 wounds on the relic bearing squad. He also shoots some ignores cover grav at my Slaanesh Dp and she takes 3 wounds. He assault moves his spiders away and charges a squad of nurglings with his scouts by his objective doing 0 wounds to each other.
Turn three I scored both my objectives and I rolled kill a unit twice, and decide not to gamble. The Tzeentch prince goes chasing the runaway rhino, and the Slaanesh Dp moves up to go after the chaplain squad in the rhino. The Khorne Dp moves in to kill a marine squad in the wreckage, and the Nurgle prince goes after a squad of spiders. The daemonettes abandon their hopeless attempt to destroy the Drop pod and move to assault the second squad of spiders. In the psychic phase I summon a unit of bloodletters and cast leech life from the Slaanesh Dp to regain 2 wounds from Khorne’s targeted squad. I shoot the rhino and destroy it with Lash and run the bloodletters so they take up as much space as possible in my deployment zone to keep the battle away from the relic. The Tzeentch Dp charges the runaway rhino, destroying it. The Slaanesh Dp charges the Chaplain squad killing most of the squad and regaining all her wounds. The Khorne Dp charges his now 3 man unit of marines killing them easily. The Nurgle Dp and the daemonettes easily finish off both squads of spiders. Cameron gets his last squad of spiders and his command squad in. They deep strike in to try and take out the bubble wrap and the relic bearer. He manages to kill all the furies and takes another 2 wounds from the relic squad, but not the bearer. Slaanesh Dp finishes off the Chaplain in CC.
Turn four I scored both of my objectives and we decide to call this last turn because we have 18 minutes to dice down. I move all my Dp’s back to the center of the board and put everything into killing the command squad and the spiders. The Dp’s kill the command squad in the psychic phase with shriek and the daemonettes and letters charge the spiders, killing them all. Cameron kills a unit of nurglings on his turn four getting him a maelstrom point. We tied maelstrom and I got first strike, and we tied table quarters, giving me a 7-2 win.
I think I played well this game. My biggest mistake was trying to take out the scout squads with 2 squads of nurglings. They don’t do any damage even on turns when they cause the -1 Str and T. I should have used them to hide and keep a table quarter instead of trying to take his objective from him.
Game Three
Spoiler:
Game three was against a tournament friend of mine Mike. He ran grav heavy white scars Battle Company in rhinos with a culexus assassin, order xenos inquisitor and 3 servo skulls. I was feeling pretty confident after just beating a battle company and going up against another one on a kill point mission. However I made two big mistakes that cost me this game. I moved all my daemon princes to within 12 inches of the assassin and rolled a 3 and kept it on the warp storm table on my first turn. My Tzeentch Dp exploded and I lost my Slaanesh Dp to his shooting right off the bat. We played out three more turns of him mopping up my nurglings and killing my Khorne Dp with so much grav. When my Nurgle Prince finally died I called it. He was up 3 to 1 kill points by the end of the second turn.
What I should have done is moved all my Dp’s away from the culexus assassin and charge her with the Khorne Dp. But I was tired and have never played against a culexus assassin. I will never make that mistake again. I will also always remember that 2 is better than 3 on the warp storm table.
Well those are my Day 1 battle reports. I will do Day 2 soon.
LordRogalDorn wrote: Alright, I will go through my games and my thought process and do a post-match analysis. Unfortunately I didn't take any pictures of my matches because I didn't think I would do so well, but I think I will try to for games going forward. I got a little bit carried away and it may be a bit of a long read, so each game will be under a spoiler tag.
Well those are my Day 1 battle reports. I will do Day 2 soon.
Thanks for the reports, well done at the tourney.
Game 1 sounds very lucky with the stomps. I've faced a similar list with similar tactics and lost 3 Daemon Princes in one round due to tactical 6's coming up.
It seems like you're using the Nurgle prince as warlord. 'Conventional Wisdom' is that the Tzeentch warlord traits are a bit more widely beneficial. What's the reasoning behind Nurgle?
Also... I'm considering taking the list to a 2000pt tourney in a few weeks. How would you build up an extra 150-175pts to the list? (BOnus points: It's Australian Community Comp http://communitycomp.org/, wherein the Tetrad takes up my entire 'budget' of points, and I can't add anything you might consider 'good' to the rest of the army!)
LordRogalDorn wrote: Alright, I will go through my games and my thought process and do a post-match analysis. Unfortunately I didn't take any pictures of my matches because I didn't think I would do so well, but I think I will try to for games going forward. I got a little bit carried away and it may be a bit of a long read, so each game will be under a spoiler tag.
Well those are my Day 1 battle reports. I will do Day 2 soon.
It seems like you're using the Nurgle prince as warlord. 'Conventional Wisdom' is that the Tzeentch warlord traits are a bit more widely beneficial. What's the reasoning behind Nurgle?
Awesome job! I was curious about the warlord stuff as well. Then I checked it out.
Respectively Day 1, your Tzeentch traits would have been:
Ignoring the first perils each turn for all princes (although FNP is definitely nothing to scoff at!)
Same thing game 2
Game 3 I don't see a WL trait.
So actually, rolling a 5 for WL trait, I think I would rather have the Nurgle trait 5 as well haha. Unless I was only trying to blast a few powers a turn and throwing handfuls of dice to make sure they weren't denied by an opposing psychic army with a bunch of deny dice.
Generally though, I'm curious why you decided on that table, I feel like I would have rolled Tzeentch all the way, it's just that with how you played and what you played against, it seems like you got the right WL trait. Plus, Khorne DP rolling a psychic power on the Tzeentch table makes such a funny story.
Again, looks like you had a good time, and played well, and that's just awesome, man! I've only played a few games with my tetrad now, but it's seriously the most fun I've had.
LordRogalDorn wrote: Alright, I will go through my games and my thought process and do a post-match analysis. Unfortunately I didn't take any pictures of my matches because I didn't think I would do so well, but I think I will try to for games going forward. I got a little bit carried away and it may be a bit of a long read, so each game will be under a spoiler tag.
Well those are my Day 1 battle reports. I will do Day 2 soon.
It seems like you're using the Nurgle prince as warlord. 'Conventional Wisdom' is that the Tzeentch warlord traits are a bit more widely beneficial. What's the reasoning behind Nurgle?
Awesome job! I was curious about the warlord stuff as well. Then I checked it out.
Respectively Day 1, your Tzeentch traits would have been:
Ignoring the first perils each turn for all princes (although FNP is definitely nothing to scoff at!)
Same thing game 2
Game 3 I don't see a WL trait.
So actually, rolling a 5 for WL trait, I think I would rather have the Nurgle trait 5 as well haha. Unless I was only trying to blast a few powers a turn and throwing handfuls of dice to make sure they weren't denied by an opposing psychic army with a bunch of deny dice.
Generally though, I'm curious why you decided on that table, I feel like I would have rolled Tzeentch all the way, it's just that with how you played and what you played against, it seems like you got the right WL trait. Plus, Khorne DP rolling a psychic power on the Tzeentch table makes such a funny story.
Again, looks like you had a good time, and played well, and that's just awesome, man! I've only played a few games with my tetrad now, but it's seriously the most fun I've had.
In my game 3 I rolled a 2, which wouldn't have helped me too much in game 3. As Tzeentch it would have made a little bit of a difference, but I made those two tactical errors and it wouldn't have mattered too much any ways.
I know Tzeentch is the more common "better" warlord table to roll on for all the princes, but I thought I would try something a little different because I have not been happy with the Tzeentch prince as my WL. I have found that most people like to try and force me to take Ld checks on my Tzeentch prince to try for an impossible robes away (and admittedly I fail those Ld checks a lot), and they typically ignore my Nurgle prince because of 2+ cover most of the time. So I give up WL a lot less with the Nurgle prince as WL. Also, it fits a little more thematically because the majority of the army is a daemon of Nurgle and it kinda makes sense that the Nurgle prince is in charge. I have also found that I tend to roll the not great powers on the Tzeentch table, like soul blaze and ignore first perils. Those are not all that great considering I typically throw 3 dice per power, unless my opponent has a decent number of deny dice, then I use 4. The Nurgle table is pretty good too. I like +1 Wound (saved my bacon in game 5), FNP or +1 to FNP (just awesome), enemies have to snap fire if targeting WL and within 7in (mitigates rapid fire and other 12 in guns a bit), and the 6 result causing more wounds has helped me finish off a unit. So those are my reasons for going Nurgle.
I did get very lucky with the stomps, and that is probably the only reason I beat him. He got something like 16 stomp attempts and 0 magic 6's. I'm working on Day 2 battle reports now. They should be up in the next day or two.
If I were to take this up to 2000 points, there isn't much more I would add. I would try and add a palanquin of Nurgle to the Herald and give him either a greater or lesser ether blade, add more bodies and command to the PB squad to try and make them a credible threat, and see if I could fit in Grotti the Nurgling on the Nurgle DP. I might consider taking the Tzeentch core instead of the tallyband, but I really like infiltrating/outflanking nurglings. The Nurgle Herald on a palanquin with a greater ether blade is hitting almost as hard as a DP, which is impressive.
That's pretty good reasoning. I'm gonna keep an eye on my games as I continue to play the tetrad and see if I get similar trends, then I may also try out Nurgle traits. Thanks!
Game four I went up against a nice guy Jaminh, who was bringing a 6 flyrant list with some lictors and a venomthrope and a VSG on ITC mission 4, the Scouring. He got 1 instance of Catalyst and 2 Screams and 5 paroxysms. I was feeling confident on this one because the terrain was set up perfectly for me. There were 6 large pieces of LOS blocking terrain all along the outside of the board where my Nurglings could easily hide from all the flying tyrants. Each objective was placed within one of these daemonic buildings. My Tzeentch Prince got Staff of change, Touch of uncreation, Daemonic resilience, Shriek, Shrouding, and cursed earth. Nurgle Prince got Balesword, Dark blessing, Shriek, Enfeeble and Endurance. Khorne Prince got Axe of Khorne, Blade of blood, Daemonic Resilience. Slaanesh Prince got Lash, daemonic resilience, Shriek, Smite, and Iron Arm. I got Impenetrable Hide WL trait. I rolled to go first and set up all my Princes as far forward as I could, my plaguebearers and herald on my 1 point objective in position to go for my 2 point objective on the left flank, and 1 squad of nurglings on my 1 point and 3 point objectives. I held 4 squads of nurglings in outflank reserve and my furies in deep strike reserve. He set up his 6 flyrants in the corner by his 3 point objective with the VSG and venomthrope. He put 3 of his spores on the edge of his deployment zone and kept the other 3 in deep strike reserve. He kept 1 lictor on his 1 point objective and infiltrated 1 on his 2 point objective on the right flank, and kept the third in deep strike reserve. He chose not to seize.
Turn One I roll hold objective 3 and kill a unit. I glide my Slaanesh prince to go after his lictor in the middle of the field, and fly my Nurgle and Tzeentch Princes straight towards his flier wing of tyrants. I glide my Khorne Prince over hoping for grounding checks to be failed. For the psychic phase I get iron arm off on my Slaanesh Prince, Cursed earth off, endurance on Nurgle Prince, and 1 shriek at his lictor, doing 1 wound. In the shooting phase I roll a 10. I lash his lictor away. Jaminh rolls hold objective 1 and kill a unit. He moves his attack wing towards my Princes and gets paroxysms off on each of them. I deny catalyst and he fails warp blast. His shooting doesn’t cause a single wound. He was up against a 3++ with a reroll and a 3+ FNP on the Nurgle PRINCE, a 3++ and 3+ FNP on the Khorne PRINCE with -1 Str to attacks, a 2++/4++ with a 3++ FNP on the Tzeentch PRINCE, and a T9 Slaanesh PRINCE with a 3+ and 3+ FNP.
Turn Two I scored both of mine and rolled hold Objective 1 and kill a unit. 3 squads of nurglings come in and move towards his venomthrope and the other middle Objective 2. I decide to vector strike one of his Tyrants with the Nurgle and Tzeentch Princes, dealing 3 wounds. The Khorne one waits for failed grounding checks which never happened, and the Slaanesh Prince Flies over in position to shoot with the Lash. I get cursed earth off, Endurance on Nurgle, and fail to get iron arm off. I try shrieking twice doing 0 wounds each time. I roll a 10 again on warp storm, which is dumb, and the Slaanesh Prince shoots but gets 3 shots and causes no wounds. Jaminh scored 1 of his objectives, and rolled kill 2 units. Gets a lictor to deep strike near my objective 3. He flies his flier wing up a bit and shoots at the Khorne and Nurgle Prince. I deny all of his powers. He gets 2 wounds through on the Khorne Prince, and none on the Nurgle Prince. He charges his venomthrope at my nurglings and they kill it before it swings because of charging through cover, which also gave me my second maelstrom point.
Turn three I scored both of mine and rolled hold objective 2 and 3. I land my Nurgle and Tzeentch Princes and glide them back towards the flyer wing. The Slaanesh prince stays in the air and gets into position to shoot another Flyrant. The Khorne Prince vector strikes the injured flyrant, killing it. I get Iron Arm, cursed earth, endurance, and 2 shrieks off. I kill 1 tyrant with shrieks and shooting from the Slaanesh Prince. Warp storm killed his lictor by my objective 3 with Rot, glorious rot. Jaminh moves his flier wing towards my objective 3 and kills the Khorne Prince with shooting, giving him big game hunter.
The next 3 turns is a game of chase the flyrants as they try to kill things, but don’t. I end up winning 10 to 1. I think the only thing I should have done differently is vector strike with my Khorne Prince earlier, and remember in the second half of the game that he had armour of scorn. There was not much he could do with the powers and gifts that I rolled.
Game Five
Spoiler:
Game five I played against Evan with his 8 squads of 10 necron warriors, 3 squads of destroyers, one 5 man unit of immortals, and 1 unit of flayed ones. This was big guns never tire, and I don’t think either of us had any Heavy support. Going into this game I was feeling confident that I could kill a warrior squad a PRINCE each turn and that I had this, I was so wrong. Funnily enough I was playing on the same table I was on when I lost to Mike, so I was at least familiar with the terrain. My Tzeentch Prince got Staff of change, mutating warp blade, and Daemonic resilience, Shriek, Shrouding, and summoning. Nurgle Prince got Balesword, touch of uncreation, Shriek, Enfeeble and Iron arm. Khorne Prince got Axe of Khorne, Blade of blood, and hellfire gaze. Slaanesh Prince got Lash, Corpulescence, Shriek, warp speed, and Iron Arm. Rolled +1 wound for WL trait. I placed my back field objective behind a shipping crate and my mid field objective in some industrial terrain near the center of the map. Evan set up his two objectives very similarly to mine. I rolled to go first and set up my Nurgle Prince on my right flank, and the other three in the center. He makes a wall of warriors along his deployment edge and has 2 units of destroyers sitting behind them. Evan holds his warriors in Deep strike reserve and infiltrates his flayed ones on my right flank. He chooses not to seize.
Turn one I glide my 3 central Princes up the center and my Nurgle Prince towards his flayed ones, who are 19 inches away. I cast shrouding, both Iron arms and 2 shrieks, which kill 1 warrior. I roll a 3 on warp storm and change it to a 2 taking 0 wounds on anything. I charge his flayed ones with the Nurgle PRINCE and make it. Kill 3 and they can’t hurt me with Iron Arm on. Evan lights up my Khorne Prince with all of his warriors, dealing 3 wounds to him, leaving him at 2. The Nurgle Prince finishes off the Flayed ones in CC.
Turn two I move all my Princes into position to charge 4 squads of warriors. I get shrouding, stream of corruption, 2 shrieks, and iron arm off on my Nurgle prince, he Denied warp speed on the Slaanesh Prince. I charge in, and he causes 1 wound to the Tzeentch Prince, and I fail my Ld check, dead Tzeentch Prince. The Khorne Prince takes a wound from over watch fire, and slaughters the squad in return. Slaanesh prince kills her squad with a sweeping advance. The squad engaged with the Nurgle Prince fell back to the board edge, but not off. Evan’s warrior squad rallies and his immortals mishap and into the far corner they go. His bikes also came in from reserve. He kills the Khorne Prince, and takes 2 wounds off of the Nurgle and Slaanesh prince.
Turn three I move my Nurgle Prince into position to charge one squad, flame another, and shriek the bikes. My Slaanesh prince moves into position to charge some of the destroyers. My nurglings come onto the board on his back field objective side and move as far forward as possible. I get Iron arm on the Nurgle Prince, and stream of corruption kills 3 of the 5. The bikes die to shriek. The Slaanesh prince makes the charge into the 3 destroyers and the Nurgle Prince finishes off a unit. On Evan’s turn he moves his warriors into position to shoot and kill the Nurgle Prince, which he does. He also takes the Slaanesh prince down to 2 wounds.
Turn four I’m down to the nurglings and the Slaanesh Prince who can influence this battle. I move my Nurglings to charge the squad of warriors by his objective and my Slaanesh Prince to engage the destroyers nearby. I get warp speed off, fail to shriek, and fail to summon off of my herald. The Slaanesh Prince charges and kills the three destroyers coming back up to 5 wounds, and the nurglings do nothing. Evan shoots everything at the Slaanesh Prince again and brings her down to 1 wound.
Turn five I cast warp speed and charge the squad with the nurglings by his back field objective. She kills the squad and regains 5 wounds, bringing her back to full. At this point Evan decides that he no longer has the models to deal 6 wounds to the Slaanesh Prince in 1 turn and decides to call it there. We also only had about 15 minutes left in the game. I ended up winning 10 to 1. He got Warlord and I didn’t.
What I should have done differently to prevent a bunch of damage was decide to smash with all my Princes on the turn they charge, because that would have prevented a lot of his ability to return fire, then hopefully kill the squad like I did, just on his turn.
Game Six
Spoiler:
Game six I was up against a good friend of mine and teammate, Willow, who also got best dark elder at BAO. I knew this would be a hard match because of her Leadership bomb, and all the poison. Her list can be found here My Tzeentch Prince got Staff of change, mutating warp blade, and hellfire gaze, Shriek, dark flame, and summoning. Nurgle Prince got Balesword, corpulescence, Shriek, endurance and Iron arm. Khorne Prince got Axe of Khorne, Blade of blood, and daemonic resilience. Slaanesh Prince got Lash, hellfire gaze, Shriek, warp speed, and smite. Rolled Miasma of pestilence WL trait. This table had a few buildings around, but not too much for me to hide my Princes in from all the fast shooting Willow had. I placed objective 2 on my left flank near a building in Willow’s deployment zone and my objective 1 behind a building in my deployment zone. Willow put her objective 1 behind a building in her deployment zone, and her objective 2 in the middle of the table. I deploy my Princes as far forward as possible and infiltrate 2 squads of nurglings and outflank 4 squads. Willow placed her VSG in in the center of her deployment zone with everything except for her leadership bomb hidden around her VSG. Willow fails to seize and the game begins.
Turn one I roll objective 2 and destroy a unit. I fly my Slaanesh and Tzeentch Princes straight towards her line and glide the Nurgle and Khorne towards the center. In the psychic phase I cast endurance on the Tzeentch prince, fail summoning, fail lash of submission, and fail sacrifice. I Lash a venom and destroy it, and fail to do anything else. Willow rolls to hold both objectives and gets a sky fire nexus on her back field objective right next to her dark reapers. She blasts my Slaanesh prince away and does a wound to the Khorne prince.
Turn two I scored one of my objectives and roll the same thing. My nurglings come in on my objective 2 and I land my Tzeentch Prince in the middle of Willows deployment zone and moved my Khorne Prince into position to charge her VSG or bikes that are sitting on it. I get endurance on the Tzeentch prince and fail summoning. Warp storm gets rot glorious rot, and kills 2 members of a bike squad. I throw 2 blind grenades at a bike squad from the nurglings, wound with one and kill one biker. The squad fails their Ld check and fall back off the board. I charge the bike squad on the VSG with the Khorne prince and killed them. Because the bike squad that suffered from Rot glorious rot was within 7in of my Tzeentch Prince, they also suffered another d6str 1 poison 5+ wounds that ignore armour and cover due to my WL trait, and that killed the last bike. Willow scored both of her points and rolled the same as turn 1. Her Ld bomb came on and she got them into the perfect position of hit all 3 of my Daemon princes. The Ld bomb killed the Khorne Prince and did 1 wound to the Tzeentch Prince, and I failed my Ld check so he vanished, and the Nurgle prince took 0 wounds. The rest of Willows shooting did 1 wound to the Nurgle prince.
Turn three I scored both of my objectives and rolled hold objective 1 and have a unit in Willows deployment zone. The rest of my reserves come in, and the furies scatter 11 inches from the central objective. I move my now 3 squads of nurglings towards Willow’s table edge, but still near enough to the objective to keep her units away. Shriek does nothing and I cast endurance on some nearby nurglings I summon a unit of Daemonettes from the herald near the center of the board. I charge her Ld bomb with the nurglings, denying Willow over watch, then charge with the Nurgle Prince. I kill her Prince with HoW and then proceed to not do any wounds. Willow scored one of her objectives and rolled kill two units. She move her venoms into position to last turn objective grab and stay in range of all my units. She brings the squad of daemonettes to 2 models, and takes out a squad of nurglings on the flank. She also kills 1 model from the furies. In the she kills a base of nurglings in the assault phase. And I don’t get through the shadow field.
Turn four I scored both of my objectives and roll hold both objectives. I move the daemonettes into some cover and fly the furies to try and contest her back field objective. I get endurance on the nurglings again. Willow again kills a base of nurglings in the assault phase and I still fail to get through the shadow field. Willow scored one of her objectives and rolled kill two units. She didn’t move anything and finished off the daemonettes and a squad of flanking nurglings, and kills another 2 models from the furies. In combat she kills off the nurglings and I still don’t get through her shadow field. The Nurgle prince takes 4 wounds from daemonic instability killing it.
Turn five I score both my objectives and move my furies and nurglings to go for line breaker, while still trying to bubble wrap the objectives. I fail to summon. I roll another 2 on warp storm, which kills the furies. Willow scored both of her objectives and moved everything to capture 3 of the 4 objectives. Her Ld bomb of fire dragons move to try and finish off the 2 bases of nurglings that are giving me line breaker. She kills one of the bases with the dragons and the game ends. 7 to 6 my win, because I make way too many saves and first blood.
What I wish I had done differently this game was smash on the turns I charge and then use all my attacks on Willows turn. My Khorne Prince probably would have survived another turn if I had done that. I also am very wasteful with my plaguebearers and herald. I need to be much more aggressive with that unit. I also should have just soaked the over watch fire on my Nurgle Prince, so that the nurglings couldn’t hurt the Nurgle Prince with daemonic instability.
I hope you enjoyed these. The Tetrad list is so much fun to play. It has renewed my interests in the game and the hobby. It is a list that can do well if you work with what you got, and also has most of the tools to deal with almost any opponent, as long as you roll it.
Thanks for taking the time to write up some Bat-reps.
It's always interesting to hear what is possible with the Tetrad, as I'm (slowly) working on my own.
Thanks for the battle reports. I have been running mine with Fateweaver, Tzeentch Herald, Horrors and Nurglings have been loving it I guess I have to give the tally band a try.
I really like what the Daemonic Incursion gets you. +/- 1 to warp storm table is pretty amazing. I'm almost always able to do something useful with it because of that. Re-rolling daemonic instability is incredibly useful in keeping models on the table if you lose to CC and for the 2 on the warp storm table. Daemonic corruption is useful for tagging objectives as you pass with the daemon princes (I almost never fly them) and you can treat it like poor man's objective secured if you keep models in controlling range. You also get 6-7 infiltrating squads which have pretty good staying power against shooting. After BAO I have lost faith in my nurglings actually killing anything, so I use them to get objectives, tie up shooting units until a prince can come and save them, or use them as speed bumps to stall death stars.
I want to try the Tzeentch core with 8 or 9 exalted flamers, my one worry with that is I will have 5 mini death stars and no ground control. I would be curious to hear if people have tried that one or the Slaanesh one successfully with a tetrad.
I'm also thinking about switching out the plaguebearer squad for another nurgling squad and super powering the herald of nurgle, because he can become a non-flying DP with all his upgrades.
LordRogalDorn wrote: I'm also thinking about switching out the plaguebearer squad for another nurgling squad and super powering the herald of nurgle, because he can become a non-flying DP with all his upgrades.
'
That might seem tempting... but when do you ever see anyone using a non-flying Daemon Prince Especially of Nurgle, where he can't run or sweep. If I was doing a DP on foot it would be Slaanesh.
OK so its been a while since I have played with my tetrad. I actually have a batrep from when the formation first came out. It was against tau and well... ya you probably know what happened. I do have some questions if you can answer them.
1. what is the tetrad's worst matchup
2. what is its main weakness
3. Does it have potential to win the top 10 or 15
Automatically Appended Next Post: I was also thinking about maybe trying to fix the problem that I see with the tetrad which is obsec. Any1 want to tell their thoughts on a ork bike army with the tetrad for some fast obsec?
-v10mega wrote: OK so its been a while since I have played with my tetrad. I actually have a batrep from when the formation first came out. It was against tau and well... ya you probably know what happened. I do have some questions if you can answer them.
1. what is the tetrad's worst matchup
2. what is its main weakness
3. Does it have potential to win the top 10 or 15
Automatically Appended Next Post: I was also thinking about maybe trying to fix the problem that I see with the tetrad which is obsec. Any1 want to tell their thoughts on a ork bike army with the tetrad for some fast obsec?
1. I have found that the worst match ups for me are against other daemons, and melee D-weapons.
2. I find its main weakness is your own dice. If you roll all the good defensive upgrades they will work wonders, but you have 4 mini death stars with 4 to 6 wounds. If you start rolling below average or worse they go down pretty quick. I will say I have not gone up against a super friends list yet, so I don't know how that will go personally.
3. I placed 10th out of 172 at BAO, so it has the potential to do well.
Obsec is a problem, but by prioritizing your assaults with the Dps you can handle killing obsec units near critical objectives. Also bubble wrapping objectives so that your opponents units can't get within 3 inches sometimes works.
-v10mega wrote: OK so its been a while since I have played with my tetrad. I actually have a batrep from when the formation first came out. It was against tau and well... ya you probably know what happened. I do have some questions if you can answer them.
1. what is the tetrad's worst matchup
2. what is its main weakness
3. Does it have potential to win the top 10 or 15
Automatically Appended Next Post: I was also thinking about maybe trying to fix the problem that I see with the tetrad which is obsec. Any1 want to tell their thoughts on a ork bike army with the tetrad for some fast obsec?
1. For me I would say Orks. A Daemon prince can take any big model or elite unit in cc anyday but an Ork horde charging a Daemon prince can do a lot of damage through weight of attacks and the prince won't have enough attacks to take them all down.
2. As I said ^ hordes with hundreds of attacks can be damaging. And as you have said the problem with obsec is there; if the enemy can keep throwing units on an objective (Orks, Guard, Nids) then it doesn't matter how many you kill.
3. The problem here is that in order for the tetrad to be consistently good your rolls on: psychic, warlord, rewards, warpstorm, etc. All need to be on point. The reason why Daemons aren't seen as top teer is because of this uncertainty.
The biker tetrad list is an interesting idea, I know that the bikes can take care of themselves (is it a 2+ cover save) which lets the princes do their own thing. I would say go for it and let us know how it works out.
Hello all, new guy here. Been thinking a lot about making infernal tedrat army for upcoming tournament , but the problem is that tournament runs on 1750 pts. so incursion is not really viable option if you want to use tedrat to full potential. I've been thinking that mby kdk allied detachment of juggernaut herald+hounds+min. cultists would be good support for it? They could capture objectives and give some tablepresence for the army, but it doesn't give any help against warpstorm. What do you think, could they be viable support for tedrat?
hordelover wrote: Hello all, new guy here. Been thinking a lot about making infernal tedrat army for upcoming tournament , but the problem is that tournament runs on 1750 pts. so incursion is not really viable option if you want to use tedrat to full potential. I've been thinking that mby kdk allied detachment of juggernaut herald+hounds+min. cultists would be good support for it? They could capture objectives and give some tablepresence for the army, but it doesn't give any help against warpstorm. What do you think, could they be viable support for tedrat?
Welcome!
You could still do the Incursion with Tetrad + Tallyband, if you have the Nurgle models. I wrote up a quick list that basically only gives you 25 points worth of upgrades on the herald of nurgle. That's with 6 units of nurglings and 1 unit of plaguebearers. It might be worth it to drop the pb unit for another nurgling unit at that point to free up more options, idk.
Otherwise, KDK gorepack has been used to good effect with the tetrad, I believe, so your idea would probably be good too! Quick, scary units combined with the tetrad is probably apt to give your opponents fits.
I've tried out the Tetrad without using the Tallyband, and I gotta say that the Incursion bonuses can be critical. I was using Belakor w/ 1 Horror unit and 2x 3 Nurlgings. With so many big characters, a bad Warp Storm roll can be awful. Plus, there really aren't enough bodies for objectives.
As fun and fluffy as it was to use Belakor + 4 DPs, or using a Gorepack, having all the Infiltrating, Shrouded Nurglings + Incursion bonuses really does swing the balance for objective missions. It's also nice that 2 Nurgling box sets can make up to 18 Nurgling bases (6 units). Just put each "slab" on its' own base and cluster the extra ones on their own bases. Each of mine has at least 6 Nurglings per base (7-8 per "slab" base) Adding the Bell onto the Nurgle Herald is also really good for Shrieks and other tests.
As for making a Tetrad + Tallyband at 1750, just take the minimum 7 units of Nurglings, Herlad w/ Bell and Furies. That should leave more that 1300pts for the Tetrad.
The tetrad is really good but i found most of my heavy lifting was done by the tzeentch dude. Dont forget to add fighter ace to the dude to give him a 33% chance of getting his 2 plus invulnerable naturally!
I'm going to play Tetrad against my grey knights friend this weekend. 1500 points, and per a suggestion on an army list thread, I'm allying the Tetrad with a CSM sorc and some cultists. I took this list to the lgs one weekend and it worked out pretty well, but I haven't played GK yet with it, I feel like they might have a decent chance of taking out my T6, so curious what strategy I might go with. I have been keeping my Slaanesh prince in reserve, deep striking it and laying about with the lash, and considering my friend allies in Inquisition or IG with a flyer, I think I'm gonna keep that pattern. I don't know exactly what his list will be, but mine is probably going to be something like:
HQ: Sorcerer - Bike, MoN, 2x Additional Mastery Level, Spell Familiar, Force Sword
Troops: Cultists - with Flamer
The mark of Nurgle on the sorcerer is so that I have 5 T6 models, and was put there initially because I had extra points. Force sword on him and the Flamer with the cultists are there because that's how they were modeled, though my friends and I allow each other to bend WYSIWYG.
Any general GK tactical advice? I don't really want to tailor the list, so I'm more looking for things I can do strategically with what I'm bringing to the table.
EDIT:
Played the game yesterday. Maelstrom, Cloak and Shadows. I like the secret objectives part of this one. It went very well, was incredibly fun! If the game had ended turn 5, it would have been a tie 9-9. The game went to turn 6, however, and I ended up tabling the GK.
He brought GK with Inquisition allies, he had a flyer but we didn't play DftS, as neither of us own the book. I don't have any experience writing battle reports, and didn't take any pictures, but I can type something up later. The game felt very close (even though really I guess it wasn't as I reflect on it, because I only lost one DP, the Sorcerer, and the throwaway cultists, while I killed off his LR, Rhino, Purgation Squad (the shunting power armor guys are called that, right?), strike squad, dreadknight, whichever flyer (Valkyrie?), inquisitor, terminators + librarian WL, and two squads of the inquisition troopers). But what matters is at the end of the game we both *felt* like it was a close and good game.
So... question that's sorta related to this topic.
If you roll Sacrifice for one of your powers, what are the situational "Herald" do you guys like to use? Especially in the context of using this formation....
Haven't used a tetrad but a Tzeentch Herald on a disc is usually my go to . A Nurgle Herald with a bell could also be useful if yoy didn't bring one already
whembly wrote: So... question that's sorta related to this topic.
If you roll Sacrifice for one of your powers, what are the situational "Herald" do you guys like to use? Especially in the context of using this formation....
Herald of Nurgle with Bell if you didn't already bring one. Psychic Shriek should be doing a lot of work with this army.
After that, Herald of Tzeentch Lv1 on Disc is 99% of the time the right choice. Maybe first turn a Lv2 on foot in your backline would be ok, but after that you don't have anything good for him to join and your casters are being too aggressive, he'll just give up a killpoint. Putting him on disc lets him get away from the action and on to objectives. It can occasionally be useful to bring him down and get Prescience up on the unit that summoned him, but most of the time he'll roll Malefic.
The other heralds are much more situational. Very occasionally, a Herald of Khorne has been the right choice for me - eg, when I'm trying up a unit in combat with 2++ save screamers but can't kill it. Summon a Herald in with a greater and lesser reward and he can potentially take it out if there aren't any combat threats nearby.
I've used a Lv1 Herald of Nurgle a few times as a ghetto torrent flamer or Blind Grenadier. This requires Cursed Earth to work though so its a 4+ Warp Charge investment for uncertain payoff. But its hilarious when you do manage to blind a Stormsurge.
I think I've only once summoned in a Herald of Slaanesh, who came in and instantly cast Shriek on a problem unit.
whembly wrote: I'll be mostly bringing the tallyband in the incursion detachment, so I'll already have nurgle herald w/ bell.
So... priority is generally this: -Tzentch on disk - Khorne on jugger or w/ K. Axe ... that's it?
EDIT: "blind a Stormsurge"... wut? o.O
Jugger is too expensive to be summoned. And yes, StormSurges do not have blacksun filters, so any Daemon of Nurgle can throw a Defensive grenade to blind it.
100% of the Herlards I have even summoned are Tz Disc Herlads. They are especially needed for the Tetrad as they give extra WC and give an extra unit that can turbo-boost to an objective. There really isn't another choice for Sacrifice, since all other can get picked off. A Tz Disc Herald is the only "self-sufficient" Herald option.
whembly wrote: I'll be mostly bringing the tallyband in the incursion detachment, so I'll already have nurgle herald w/ bell.
So... priority is generally this:
-Tzentch on disk
- Khorne on jugger or w/ K. Axe
... that's it?
EDIT: "blind a Stormsurge"... wut? o.O
Jugger is too expensive to be summoned. And yes, StormSurges do not have blacksun filters, so any Daemon of Nurgle can throw a Defensive grenade to blind it.
100% of the Herlards I have even summoned are Tz Disc Herlads. They are especially needed for the Tetrad as they give extra WC and give an extra unit that can turbo-boost to an objective.
There really isn't another choice for Sacrifice, since all other can get picked off. A Tz Disc Herald is the only "self-sufficient" Herald option.
-
Cool beans...
I'll have to kitbash a few Tz disc Heralds (I'm cheap).
I'd be wary about too many sacrifices with the Tetrad. Do it if there's a decent non-Prince target in range (if he cast it with the Herald or even just tag along your furies as Sacrifice targets), or maybe on the Slaanesh Prince if he can go to town with Souleater; but you only have 16 wounds making up 75% of your points, be vary careful about taking any of those away unnecessarily!!
Trasvi wrote: I'd be wary about too many sacrifices with the Tetrad. Do it if there's a decent non-Prince target in range (if he cast it with the Herald or even just tag along your furies as Sacrifice targets), or maybe on the Slaanesh Prince if he can go to town with Souleater; but you only have 16 wounds making up 75% of your points, be vary careful about taking any of those away unnecessarily!!
Since I run Tetrad with Tallyband, I find there is never a shortage of Nurglings to Sacrifce, but I like your idea about the Furies. Gives them more of a "reason to exist" other than to fill the Auxiliary.
Ecdain wrote: So what is generally more versatile/better, tzeetch or nurgle core to run with tetrad?
That depends on how many points you have and what you need the core to do.
If you are low on points and need a way to cap lots of objectives I would take the taliband. However if you want something that can reliably take down SH, GMC, etc. I would take the warpflame host.
Personally I play 2500pts, so I have the points to spare, and I prefer to use the tactic of blowing things off of objectives, so I take the warpflame host.
Ecdain wrote: So what is generally more versatile/better, tzeetch or nurgle core to run with tetrad?
That depends on how many points you have and what you need the core to do.
If you are low on points and need a way to cap lots of objectives I would take the taliband. However if you want something that can reliably take down SH, GMC, etc. I would take the warpflame host.
Personally I play 2500pts, so I have the points to spare, and I prefer to use the tactic of blowing things off of objectives, so I take the warpflame host.
I see I see, I think I'd prefer to run the warpflame as I eventually will be switching over to summoning factory anyway. Think it will work at 2k as that is the most common game size around here?
Ecdain wrote: So what is generally more versatile/better, tzeetch or nurgle core to run with tetrad?
That depends on how many points you have and what you need the core to do.
If you are low on points and need a way to cap lots of objectives I would take the taliband. However if you want something that can reliably take down SH, GMC, etc. I would take the warpflame host.
Personally I play 2500pts, so I have the points to spare, and I prefer to use the tactic of blowing things off of objectives, so I take the warpflame host.
I see I see, I think I'd prefer to run the warpflame as I eventually will be switching over to summoning factory anyway. Think it will work at 2k as that is the most common game size around here?
It should do, a tetrad with the warpflame host and furies comes to just under 2000pts.
Here is some advice: have your slaanesh prince role all his powers on biomancy, this way you can get iron arm for a Str10 lash of despair and you can get endurance so your exalted flamers can fire their Str10 blue fire on the turn they deep strike as well.
Excellent, I'll try for that then, now to comb back through the thread and find the best way to load out the tetrad, do you recommend all exalted flamers or a mix?
Ecdain wrote: Excellent, I'll try for that then, now to comb back through the thread and find the best way to load out the tetrad, do you recommend all exalted flamers or a mix?
I use all exalted flamers, they are cheaper than than horrors and have more firepower.
Let me give you a hand with the best loadouts:
Give all princes 2xgreater and a lesser.
If grav is a problem in your area only give armour to the slaanesh, if grav isn't then go crazy with the armour.
Give the Tzeentch the robes.
Give the Khorne armour of scorn.
Give the slaanesh soulstealer (this isn't necessary if you keep him flying using the lash of despair).
Give the Slaanesh the lash of despair.
You can give the Nurgle grotti, but make sure to keep him away from the other princes.
Of course all want mastery levels.
The powers I find most helpful are:
Cursed earth
Endurance
Iron arm
Psychic shriek
Don't feel like you need to copy this exactly; for one, this is my set up against armoured brigade guard so the tetrad may require different loadouts for different mettas; and two, the tetrad is still being figured out so experiment with different set ups, tactics, powers, etc. It would help us if you find a knew super tactic for the tetrad.
Ecdain wrote: So what is generally more versatile/better, tzeetch or nurgle core to run with tetrad?
As said before, it depends on the point level. In my area we play most of the time at 1850. Then tzeentch is not an option. I think at 2000 it is better because of more damage output compared to the tallyband.
However I do believe that the tetrad combines very good with the tallyband when you give the nurgle herald the doomsday bell for -1 ld. All my princes always have psychic shriek
Tetrad:
All princes have psyker lvl 3(barring khorne ofc) and wings
Khorne prince - armour of scorn, 2 x greater, 1 x lesser reward - 280
Slaanesh prince - warp-forged armour, 2 x greater, 1 x lesser reward - 360
Nurgle prince - 2x greater - 315
Tzeetch prince(warlord) - robes, 2 x greater, 1 x lesser reward - 360
Flock of harpies - 35
Total: 1955
I get I have 45 points leftover, I'm just unsure what to put in for the filler. I'm hoping it all works out and looking forward to a different kind if army. Getting a bit tired of scat bikes xD
If you have no deep seeded hatred of death from the skies you could give your khorne prince flyer ace for 35pts, it would give you a 1/3 chance of getting +1 invul which would make him far more survivorable.
Besides that, have fun and let us know how it goes.
If you have no deep seeded hatred of death from the skies you could give your khorne prince flyer ace for 35pts, it would give you a 1/3 chance of getting +1 invul which would make him far more survivorable.
Besides that, have fun and let us know how it goes.
Lgs doesn't play with death from the skies cause local players are stubborn and don't like change. If it sounds like I'm bitter it's only cause I am xD. I'm switching armies from my 6k of eldar strictly cause Noone within a 45 minute drive will play any army they view as competitive( which is a lot of the appeal of daemons, people around here don't realize how good they can be and thus are actually willing to play).
Anyways, I'm thinking of either giving nurgle prince grotti and running him away from other princes or maybe a loci on Tzherald and put a lesser reward on nurgle?
If you have no deep seeded hatred of death from the skies you could give your khorne prince flyer ace for 35pts, it would give you a 1/3 chance of getting +1 invul which would make him far more survivorable.
Besides that, have fun and let us know how it goes.
Lgs doesn't play with death from the skies cause local players are stubborn and don't like change. If it sounds like I'm bitter it's only cause I am xD. I'm switching armies from my 6k of eldar strictly cause Noone within a 45 minute drive will play any army they view as competitive( which is a lot of the appeal of daemons, people around here don't realize how good they can be and thus are actually willing to play).
Anyways, I'm thinking of either giving nurgle prince grotti and running him away from other princes or maybe a loci on Tzherald and put a lesser reward on nurgle?
Your locals don't sound too fun, no offence
I'd go with grotti, I don't think a loci and a lesser will add much to your army.
They aren't, they get super pissy when they lose but refuse to bring armies that can win. For instance, I very specifically asked if anyone was willing to test up against my tourney list, so a guy agrees and when we get there he gets all butt hurt cause I brought a wraithknight (as already stated I asked for a competitive tourney test game) and he brought sisters of battle...
Anyway yeah I was thinking grotti as well, the loci wouldn't hardly do anything in this list and the lesser on nurgle is kinda lackluster. I'll be picking up the princes on Friday with games next week. Should be fun
I would go for the paradox on your herald instead of the grimoire. I think the grimoire is too unreliable without fatewaver and i dont think it brings a lot in this list. With the paradox you get a reliable psyker.
Khornegod wrote: I would go for the paradox on your herald instead of the grimoire. I think the grimoire is too unreliable without fatewaver and i dont think it brings a lot in this list. With the paradox you get a reliable psyker.
Only problem there is that paradox only works on powers used by the Herald and really the Herald is never going to use any powers with your princes soaking up all the warp charge. Unfortunetly :(
Khornegod wrote: I would go for the paradox on your herald instead of the grimoire. I think the grimoire is too unreliable without fatewaver and i dont think it brings a lot in this list. With the paradox you get a reliable psyker.
Only problem there is that paradox only works on powers used by the Herald and really the Herald is never going to use any powers with your princes soaking up all the warp charge. Unfortunetly :(
The grimoire was pretty much cause paradox was slightly less useful and I'm kinda stuck on where to spend the points. Being new to daemons I'm not too sure what would really help this list with the points I had leftover so I'm kinda winging it with what seems useful for now until I get a more stable(stable daemons, hehe).
whembly wrote: So, that incursion 'corrupt objective' ability.
If my nurglings corrupts one of them and stays within 3"... opponent moves a non-ObjSec unit within 3'... I still have that objective?
O.o
That doesn't seem... right. (disclosure, I play incursion army).
How do I convince my opponent that this is correct?
You could show them the rules. (Or the FAQ)
Rules state that the objective is yours until they fully take it back, if you are both within 3" it is contested so he hasn't fully taken it and therefore it is still yours.
And as many players have found out, if you Corrupt an objective and then place your own ObSec unit (from a CAD) within 3" of that objective, the only way for your opponent to claim & cleanse it is to remove you ObSec unit first. Having their ObSec unit within 3" will not claim it and it will still belong to the Daemon player.
...so, I'm about reading to start fielding a Tetrad and I'm trying to wrap my head around the potential psyker powers.
Particularly the Change Discipline summoning a Burning Chariot...
Are they worth a damn?
I've go two NIB Burning Chariots... and I can't decide if I should convert them into herald on Chariots, or the Burning Chariots (to be used in game/or summoned via Change Discipline).
whembly wrote: ...so, I'm about reading to start fielding a Tetrad and I'm trying to wrap my head around the potential psyker powers.
Particularly the Change Discipline summoning a Burning Chariot...
Are they worth a damn?
I've go two NIB Burning Chariots... and I can't decide if I should convert them into herald on Chariots, or the Burning Chariots (to be used in game/or summoned via Change Discipline).
Thoughts?
Okay I run tetrad + Screamerstar and it's awesome, honestly you aren't going to summon chariots often though they are awesome in their niche. What you should though do is add some bases and one Burning chariot box gives you 3 Pink horrors, an exalted flamer, Tzherald on disc, and 2 Screamers. It's the best bang for your buck in the whole fing game. I bought 4 to start my Tzeentch army.
As for powers, with tetrad your going to basically be going on telepathy, Daemonology, and biomancy. Summoning will be done by heralds or horrors(at least that's what I do). Tetrad buffs itself and stomps, or doesn't and dies. If you go to the first post and read the tactics link it goes in depth in psyker powers and order to roll them, it's quite helpful when first starting the tetrad. The general theme is invis, shrouding, CE, iron arm, endurance are the priorities though warp speed is awesome. I know it's hard to get all that with only ml3 per prince(barring khorne of course), that's why I suggest reading the link in first post. Just keep in mind the order you make your Rolls at the start pretty much determines the game.
Automatically Appended Next Post: As for change discipline, pretty much only horrors or heralds will take it, and that depends what I'm fighting.
I have read most of this post now and I'm really interested in playing a tetrad. I have 4 Princes, but no Daemons models, only CSM. I know it isn't optimal, but I don't play tournaments often, usually just casual. I do play KDK sometimes though and so I have a D-thirster. So I'm wondering how best to run a tetrad with CSM. A Cabal would provide 3-5 sorecers for more WC, but can get very expensive. You could probably fit 3 or maybe even 4 decently equipped sorcerers in with a fully buffed tetrad in 1850.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Another idea I just had, what about the 3 helbrute formation that gives them iwnd and deep strike. Its only around 300 or 350 total points.
TasadarTheMadBear wrote: I have read most of this post now and I'm really interested in playing a tetrad. I have 4 Princes, but no Daemons models, only CSM. I know it isn't optimal, but I don't play tournaments often, usually just casual. I do play KDK sometimes though and so I have a D-thirster. So I'm wondering how best to run a tetrad with CSM. A Cabal would provide 3-5 sorecers for more WC, but can get very expensive. You could probably fit 3 or maybe even 4 decently equipped sorcerers in with a fully buffed tetrad in 1850.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Another idea I just had, what about the 3 helbrute formation that gives them iwnd and deep strike. Its only around 300 or 350 total points.
You should look into the Traitor's Hate book. There is a formation that gives you 1 Dark Apostle and 4-9 units of Cultists. All Cultists share the Apostle's Zealot rule within range of him (not sure the range, maybe 12"). Since Cultists are so cheap, you can use them as spare wounds for your Cabal Sorcerers. I would run 3-4 of them all rolling on Malefic for Summoning spam. That way you can also use that D-Thirster if you roll possession (which I believe the FAQ allows you to conjure ANY Bloodthirster, even the Fearless KDK ones)
So you could have a Tetrad with 1 Dark Apostle, 3-4 Sorcerers in 4 units of Fearless (Zealot) Cultitsts. Make sure to take Spell Familiars for re-roll goodness.
FAQ lets you summon any of the three names of bloodthirster, but the conjuration power specifies from codex chaos daemons. I don't recall the FAQ changing that part so no KDK thirster.
Fhionnuisce wrote: FAQ lets you summon any of the three names of bloodthirster, but the conjuration power specifies from codex chaos daemons. I don't recall the FAQ changing that part so no KDK thirster.
Didn't they reprint that one in the Wulfen book? Or am I thinking of something else?
BRB draft FAQ, Psychic Phase section:
"Q: If you play Daemons and you successfully summon a Bloodthirster using the Daemonology psychic powers, what profile will the Bloodthirster have: the one in Codex: Chaos Daemons, or one of the ones in Codex: Khorne Daemonkin?
A:You can choose to use any of the army list entries from Codex: Chaos Daemons, Codex: Khorne Daemonkin or War Zone Fenris: Curse of the Wulfen – but not Skarbrand!"
The only advantage to fielding a Codex: Daemon D-Thirster is the greater rewards, but since a conjured Greater Daemon does not have access to greater rewards, why not conjure the Fearless one for KDK?
So Take the Tetrad, Cabal & Cultist formation, max out on Warp Charges, summon more FMCs. Or if you really want ObSec, just take a CSMCAD with 1 Sorcerer and 2-3 Cultist units, then join the Cabal to those units
Oh, and BTW, the cultist formation is called "The Lost and the Damned" and each time a unit is destroyed, roll a 4+ to place them into Ongoing reserves and Outflank them. So that could be a good way to keep bodies on the table for the Tetrad.
Honestly, going to have to research that one.
If it matters, I'd clarify before hand with the 
