Sad Panda wrote: MKIII isn't wrong. But no mention of Sisters or Custodes? Odd.
Hnnnnng
This is HEUG, not just because Sisters of Silence are inherently awesome and in plastic even moreso(Custodes are OK too I guess the weapons & heads will be good for truescaling with Sigmarines, and if the plastic MK3 resembles the Iron Hand from Overkill they will be slick), but because it means GW will finally, I think for the first time ever, be putting out an all-female human unit, in plastic, wearing armour. Forget the "PC" angle if the idea of people liking that offends you, just think of the conversions - the INQ28 community is going to explosively ventilate their trousers over this
Yeah, sure, we'll get some nice female Inquisitors and agents out of it, but I can see the more ambitious converters & sculptors turning these into Sisters of Battle, female Techpriests & Skitarii, female Navy Armsmen. The sheer number of possibilities this opens up is fantastic.
If this really is happening(sorry SP, but I'm a cynical man ) and these are even close to the quality of the Skitarii infantry kits; well played GW, well played. Now, where's that mortgage application gone...
As mentioned before Aly Morrison of the GW Miniature Design department has said there will be no Sisters of Battle in plastic, at a GW event circa two years ago - reported by the Chaptermasters blog. He was very straightforward on that. Maybe they see a chance for plastic SOB models now after Harlequins, AdMech and Genestealer Cult sold well and they will do them in the not so far future. But they clearly werent believing in plastic Sisters of Battle in 2014...
The Model Team
I spoke with Ali Morision about the future of Finecast/Metal traditional sculpting. He was very clear he could see no possibility of metal returning, although there might be a few more Finecast releases. I talked to him about the human art like quality of the old methods. His reply was that was what Forgeworld had taken on and that the Games Workshop Studio is now very much about plastic. I asked him how it was possible for them to make any money on the Limited Edition Plastic models. He said they made plenty of money off them, by the fist day of the release.
I also spoke to him about the possibility of new sisters of battle models. He said it wasn’t likely as there were not enough players collecting them. I pointed out this used to be true of Dark Eldar until they redid the range.
Warhams-77 wrote: As mentioned before Aly Morrison of the GW Miniature Design department has said there will be no Sisters of Battle in plastic, at a GW event circa two years ago - reported by the Chaptermasters blog. He was very straightforward on that. Maybe they see a chance for plastic SOB models now after Harlequins, AdMech and Genestealer Cult sold well and they will do them in the not so far future. But they clearly werent believing in plastic Sisters of Battle in 2014...
Well they might still not believe in them. Just 'cause they are releasing another female unit in popular 30k setting doesn't mean they will redo another female unit in 40k setting.
I'm not too much of a 30k fan, I liked that era more when it was shrouded in darkness and mystery, not BL novelized with swearing Primarchs. So plastic Sisters of Silence would be very nice and I'd get them to convert some characters and maybe create the sisters fghting alongside the Death Guard from Flight of the Eisenstein (the one book of the HH series I really liked so far).
But
Plastic Sisters of Battle as 1:1 to the classic heavy bolter sis and her gals as they can manage...I wouldn't know where to start.
Warhams-77 wrote: As mentioned before Aly Morrison of the GW Miniature Design department has said there will be no Sisters of Battle in plastic, at a GW event circa two years ago - reported by the Chaptermasters blog. He was very straightforward on that. Maybe they see a chance for plastic SOB models now after Harlequins, AdMech and Genestealer Cult sold well and they will do them in the not so far future. But they clearly werent believing in plastic Sisters of Battle in 2014...
Well they might still not believe in them. Just 'cause they are releasing another female unit in popular 30k setting doesn't mean they will redo another female unit in 40k setting.
As sad as it is, and until someone like SP chimes in with info, I don't believe plastic SoB are a thing, either. It would be great but why getting hopes up when none of the reliable rumormongers are saying so...
I think even kits like plastic 'Citizens of the Imperium' or a 'Xenology' box set would sell quite well, so would SoB and Inquisitor models. Never say never
My guess is Exodites will be amongst the next 'more niche' projects, based on Atia mentioning that a while ago. And based on the extensive design work the studio did for them during Epic 2nd Edition and 40k 2nd Ed (with an army list in Citadel Journal in addition to the single Codex: Eldar entry). There is a lot of potential for more Eldar Knight variants and units of Exodite Dragon Riders. Background-wise they form a large part of the Eldar population.
I surely hope the next box Gane doesn't contain SoS or Custodes. Because I want B@C with MKIII. I want yo be able to get 30 suits of MKIII at a good price.
I am not buying a $150 game just for 10 suits of MKIII.
Warhams-77 wrote: My guess is Exodites will be amongst the next 'more niche' projects, based on Atia mentioning that a while ago. And based on the extensive design work the studio did for them during Epic 2nd Edition and 40k 2nd Ed (with an army list in Citadel Journal in addition to the single Codex: Eldar entry). There is a lot of potential for more Eldar Knight variants and units of Exodite Dragon Riders. Background-wise they form a large part of the Eldar population.
Exodites would be cool Been thinking of scourging ebay for some FB high elf bits to do those but official models have potential to be better than whatever I can do(technically they WOULD be better. But would style suit me is another thing. I might prefer sacrifice in technical quality to get style to suit me) so it would be win-win for me. Either I get better models or I'm in no worse than I'm now.
But anyway back to topic mk3 marines+sisters of silence+custodes sounds cool release. Bit surprising it's so specific rather than generic but guess 1 generic release(calth) isn't reason to assume it continues. And does give 2 units hinted in background but not seen much in tabletop(there were custodes models before I think) which is nice. Frankly I'm more interested on the custodes things though albeit not sure why. We already have genetic super humans so sisters should be bit more interesting but there ya go.
Hoping also 3rd time is the charm and next HH boxed set(hey one can hope?) has the MKII armours I'm drooling for MKIV left me cold(too similar to normal), MKIII is better but MKII is one that I just want to have. I might get this new set unlike calth but MKII set would be almost certainly autobuy(good thing also that by the time any possible 3rd box would be released my hobby budget should be bigger. That's june next year. One would assume there would be hints of new one if it would be coming sooner than that?)
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SickSix wrote: I surely hope the next box Gane doesn't contain SoS or Custodes. Because I want B@C with MKIII. I want yo be able to get 30 suits of MKIII at a good price.
I am not buying a $150 game just for 10 suits of MKIII.
Original rumour says that Kharn and the deathwatch are in the new white dwarf magazine....
Magazine is in september....
So are they the august releases?
SickSix wrote: I surely hope the next box Gane doesn't contain SoS or Custodes. Because I want B@C with MKIII. I want yo be able to get 30 suits of MKIII at a good price.
I am not buying a $150 game just for 10 suits of MKIII.
If we are actually getting Sisters rather than just another box of marines - don't worry I will be selling off the Marines from the box/s I will be buying just for the Sisters of Silence / Custodians.
the Sisters of Silence aren't the same as the Sisters of Battle
As far as I am aware no-one knows what happened to the Sisters of Silence in or out of universe - the Sisters of Battle are quite a bit later.
I'm really hoping this will sell well enough that GW will see that there is a market for female models (hell, look how damn fast the Sylvaneth models sold out) and look into a SoB re-release. I'm already struggling to resist the urge to start a DW army when that codex drops, but resistance would be futile against the draw of the Sororitas.
Eh, too bad...I was hoping for Mk.4 despoilers/assault marines.
It's very interesting that they're putting new armies/units like Custodes and SoS in this box set. I assume these may crossover with 40K, then? I didn't think SoS are around in the 41st millenium, but I suppose it only takes a little new fluff to rectify that.
It'll be interesting to see how SoS operate. I'm not sure how useful pariahs in 30K are *except* if facing TS or maybe WB. 30K isn't a psychic-heavy game, to say the least. In 40K they could make a big impact.
You have got to admire how Sad panda pops in here once a month, blows everybodies minds, then disappears back into the ether.
I feel like shouting; "Wait! I have so many questions. Is deathwatch coming in August? What about 40k sisters and Tzeentch stuff. What about AOS? Are steampunk dwarves actually a thing?"
Chikout wrote: You have got to admire how Sad panda pops in here once a month, blows everybodies minds, then disappears back into the ether.
I feel like shouting; "Wait! I have so many questions. Is deathwatch coming in August? What about 40k sisters and Tzeentch stuff. What about AOS? Are steampunk dwarves actually a thing?"
Lol it's always the way with ITK people. It's the same on all the football sites I go on, if someone has a tidbit of information about a potential transfer they are usually swamped by people asking them questions about things. Generally though they usually get information about something and don't have all the answers, so a q&a session isn't something that's going to yield any more morsels of info for us.
That's why I presume Panda drops his little info bombs and legs it. Presumably he's passed on what he knows/what he can, and sticking around for the scrum of "does this mean plastic SoB?" "Is Deathwatch coming in August?" Etc would just be futile for him because he either hasn't got that info or simply can't tell us anyway.
We just have to be thankful that he can pass on what he does right now
EnTyme wrote: I'm really hoping this will sell well enough that GW will see that there is a market for female models (hell, look how damn fast the Sylvaneth models sold out) and look into a SoB re-release. I'm already struggling to resist the urge to start a DW army when that codex drops, but resistance would be futile against the draw of the Sororitas.
The sylvanneth models were sick as hell tree people of death and look really unique. The SOB are kinda just space marine light ripoffs. I hate to say that, but from a visual design perspective I found them very lacking. They need to make them look more unique. When I think SOB I think their crazy cool impractical walkers and the repentia and stuff like that. Not the generic power armor troops and ripped off transports from other armies. They should have sinners hanging from unique vehicles.
All vehicles should have the ability to upgrade (visually) racks of sinners who were caught to shield their vehicles in battle or inspire their own crazed zeal and terrify their foes. Have them on holy crusader style steeds that are blessed and can somehow survive as well as a bike or something. Would really make them stand out if they used animal mounts for some of their core. Show us how powerful their faith is that they can get away with stuff even other factions couldn't because it would get them killed.
Have psykers and mutants chained up into vehicles and pressed into service forcefully burning themselves out. Or suicide psykers (low power ones) who go in and just blow up chanting the canticles they were forced to.
Just something! Visually SOB are sooo boring for the most part. I'm not saying they can't have power armor and vehicles like other IoM factions, but other IoM factions have a lot to visually distinguish them. They just need to diversify their design is all.
Promethius wrote: Weren't the sisters of battle models sculpted in the 1990s? Could easily be re-envisaged as the heresy sisters anyway. They have enough parallels.
What parallels would those be? Both are women and have the word Sister in their names? Since that's basically where the similarities end.
It wouldn't be for thousands of years before you get the SoB as you have the rise of the Imperial Cult.
Warhams-77 wrote: As mentioned before Aly Morrison of the GW Miniature Design department has said there will be no Sisters of Battle in plastic, at a GW event circa two years ago - reported by the Chaptermasters blog. He was very straightforward on that. Maybe they see a chance for plastic SOB models now after Harlequins, AdMech and Genestealer Cult sold well and they will do them in the not so far future. But they clearly werent believing in plastic Sisters of Battle in 2014.... http://chaptermasters.com/warhammer-fest-epic-news-from-the-studio/
Edit: Found it
In fairness Warhams, that was 2 years ago. The Lord of Change, Ro'unt'ree might have other ideas...
SickSix wrote: I surely hope the next box Gane doesn't contain SoS or Custodes. Because I want B@C with MKIII. I want yo be able to get 30 suits of MKIII at a good price.
I am not buying a $150 game just for 10 suits of MKIII.
If we are actually getting Sisters rather than just another box of marines - don't worry I will be selling off the Marines from the box/s I will be buying just for the Sisters of Silence / Custodians.
the Sisters of Silence aren't the same as the Sisters of Battle
As far as I am aware no-one knows what happened to the Sisters of Silence in or out of universe - the Sisters of Battle are quite a bit later.
I'd always thought the Sisters became the guards for the black ships, but a quick google search doesn't come up with anything.
With the rumours of a possible plastic Ahriman and now Custodes and SoS it looks like this box is going to be much less generic than BaC. So kinda a good news/bad news situation for most I'd imagine.
Yeah, sure, we'll get some nice female Inquisitors and agents out of it, but I can see the more ambitious converters & sculptors turning these into Sisters of Battle, female Techpriests & Skitarii, female Navy Armsmen. The sheer number of possibilities this opens up is fantastic.
Yeah, sure, we'll get some nice female Inquisitors and agents out of it, but I can see the more ambitious converters & sculptors turning these into Sisters of Battle, female Techpriests & Skitarii, female Navy Armsmen. The sheer number of possibilities this opens up is fantastic.
Oooooh yes.
Now now, its dangerous to feed me hype. Bring the Sisters the on, my Templars stand ready. The unfaithful shall seek no refuge in any corner of the Galaxy.
I hope GW sees fit to kit these SoS out with better armour than that seen in your avatar!
Honestly I'm expecting them to be quite tame. I'm not fond of the bald with ponytail look they have. So if they are slightly cheesecake it might make me buy them but honestly I think they will look eh!
I never understood the love for the ad mec & skitarii when they came out, but once I saw the models in person I thought they were great.
I don't understand the love for the custodes or the sisters of silence either, but I guess I'll wait and see.
While I don't doubt Sad Panda, I'm having trouble seeing the sense in a SW/SOS/AC vs TS release. 30k is, despite how much others want to claim, marines vs marines 99% of the time. Releasing a starter box with not 1 but 2 hyper specialised non-marines in there just seems odd. Granted, TSons players have been left out in the cold for years and as such will probably scoop these up in large numbers and SW seem to have sufficient numbers of dedicated players that they'll find a home, but I don't think that this'll be the out of control success that calth is/was, simply due to the fact that you're going to have to split the box unless you want MkIII marines, MkIV marines, Custodes andSoS. While that is probably a few players dreams come to life, I doubt that it's going to be the case for the vast majority of players.
Drasius wrote: I never understood the love for the ad mec & skitarii when they came out, but once I saw the models in person I thought they were great.
I don't understand the love for the custodes or the sisters of silence either, but I guess I'll wait and see.
While I don't doubt Sad Panda, I'm having trouble seeing the sense in a SW/SOS/AC vs TS release. 30k is, despite how much others want to claim, marines vs marines 99% of the time. Releasing a starter box with not 1 but 2 hyper specialised non-marines in there just seems odd. Granted, TSons players have been left out in the cold for years and as such will probably scoop these up in large numbers and SW seem to have sufficient numbers of dedicated players that they'll find a home, but I don't think that this'll be the out of control success that calth is/was, simply due to the fact that you're going to have to split the box unless you want MkIII marines, MkIV marines, Custodes andSoS. While that is probably a few players dreams come to life, I doubt that it's going to be the case for the vast majority of players.
I understand what you are saying but as long as you only or mainly produce SM models, than SM models will be the thing that most people buy. The BL fluff has some great ideas for unique Imperial Army Regiments, the Mechanicus and other elements of the Imperium.
Sisters of Silence survivie at least into the Time of the Beast and hence can have stats that could be used for non 30k games.
Good point, looking back at all of SP's posts they've only ever mentioned TSons, the rest of us have just assumed that means SWs will be in it too.
If is is just Custodes and SS vs TSons I must admit I'll be a little bit disappointed as it'll likely mean that there's very little power armour in the box (compared to Calth). Still cool, though, just not as much of a must-buy for me ( though I'll probably still end up getting it asap in any case ).
Matt.Kingsley wrote: Good point, looking back at all of SP's posts they've only ever mentioned TSons, the rest of us have just assumed that means SWs will be in it too.
If is is just Custodes and SS vs TSons I must admit I'll be a little bit disappointed as it'll likely mean that there's very little power armour in the box (compared to Calth). Still cool, though, just not as much of a must-buy for me ( though I'll probably still end up getting it asap in any case ).
Thats what concerns me. The more non-PA figures there are, the fewer suits of MKIII in the set. I am only hyped for this because of plastic MKIII armor.
But so many times it turned out to be false, SOB have become the half life 3 of games workshop.
So i am not getting excited until i see them in the flesh.. i mean plastic.
but, just a people used the Calth box for 40k (before the rules for the 30k-only models came out,) The chances of people NOT using the SoS as SoB is smaller than the chance of Kirby becoming a congressman.
Well, if nothing else, I am hoping that because people will be after this for Custodes and Sisters, that there will be a huge amount of Mk III armor on eBay. Would be a great way to get HH Imperial Fists going.
I am more interested in the Mk III in order to chop it up to create some Raven Guard Istvaan survivors. Plastic is easier to work with and I have been waiting to buy more marines until I could convert up some various armor types.
I very much doubt that the 40k Tzeentch stuff will be released before Deathwatch. I can pull up the quote later but I think SP said check back after Summer minimum.
Jehan-reznor wrote: So i am not getting excited until i see them in the flesh.. i mean plastic.
Well they still aren't releasing SOB so they are still half life 3 for GW.
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Swampmist wrote: but, just a people used the Calth box for 40k (before the rules for the 30k-only models came out,) The chances of people NOT using the SoS as SoB is smaller than the chance of Kirby becoming a congressman.
Well yeah and that's going to require lots of convering if it comes to that. Makes one wonder wouldn't it simply be more efficient to get SOB's from alternative company...
tneva82 wrote: Well yeah and that's going to require lots of convering if it comes to that. Makes one wonder wouldn't it simply be more efficient to get SOB's from alternative company...
You mean a company like Raging Heroes? They'll be releasing their space nuns shortly.
Binabik15 wrote: Stop posting Artemis, I'm already kicking myself for not getting him* back in the day without seeing him every so often.
*Or two of him. Or ten.
Don't worry, you will be getting an opportunity to get him in plastic form pretty soon. I know I definitely will be getting him and the Deathwatch flyer. I hope they have a basic Deathwatch Kill Team kit too. I will buy that too if they do make it.
Crazyterran wrote: I don't know how you are confused with Artemis' gender, unless you are just being a troll...
No, just very, very unfunny, like that annoying uncle at family parties, who tries to make a joke about everything, but always falls flat, but nobody quite has the heart to tell him that he's both very annoying and very, very bad at being funny. I guess it's part of Dakka Dakka I suppose.
As much as I am thrilled about some Mk III goodness coming, I am really more interested in any information about the Deathwatch codex and releases coming.
casvalremdeikun wrote: As much as I am thrilled about some Mk III goodness coming, I am really more interested in any information about the Deathwatch codex and releases coming.
I'm getting a little over hyped... What are the time frames on all of these releases? There just seems to be too many good things coming out some time in the near or distant future which may or may not be 40k.
Deathwatch marines and codex is a long time coming, they are actually very popular and don't just sustain a small demographic of weird gamers like SOB fans, and Tau fans.
Spoiler:
satire, to a certain extent incase you can't get a read on the blatancy of it
I'm relieved. Thanks, Sad Panda. This game (like Overkill and Silver Tower) is bringing quite a variety of interesting and much awaited miniatures.
Good to see GW continues expanding 40k and 30k by using boardgames for the initial run of new miniatures and factions. Do you happen to know if these will be multipart miniatures like Betrayal at Calth or monopose like Overkill?
Both would be okay - being plastic it isnt hard to add variety to monopose models - but multipart would mean they can easily be expanded (and advertised accordingly) with Forgeworld Custodes and SoS bits. It would also mean we could see them getting sold in GW stores half a year later I guess.
It occurs to me that Mk.3 SW, Custodes and SoS is potentially a lot of models on the loyalist side. And then the TS models -- whatever they are -- still have to fit in the box. So are we looking at relatively small numbers of each unit type, then?
I suppose if the TS (say, 20 or so?) are also in Mk.3 (which isn't how they're classically rendered, but whatever), then we could still be looking at 30 Mk.3s, 5 Custodes, 5 Sisters, SWHQ, TS Sorceror...? I think that'd be in the same ballpark as Calth in terms of the amount of plastic in the box.
I don't have any interest in the minis that have been discussed so far, so it looks like my wallet will get a break when I pass on this one.
migooo wrote: So we get 2 new forces instead of updating you know SoB again. I really hope that the SOS are just testing the waters for SoB.
Though the 'good' guys might need 3 characters...
The board games definitely seem to be GW's way of gauging demand for new factions/models. DW:O sold well, now we're getting Codex: Deathwatch and Codex: Genestealer Cults. I'm hoping the same will be true for this game and SoB/Custodes.
gorgon wrote: It occurs to me that Mk.3 SW, Custodes and SoS is potentially a lot of models on the loyalist side. And then the TS models -- whatever they are -- still have to fit in the box. So are we looking at relatively small numbers of each unit type, then?
I suppose if the TS (say, 20 or so?) are also in Mk.3 (which isn't how they're classically rendered, but whatever), then we could still be looking at 30 Mk.3s, 5 Custodes, 5 Sisters, SWHQ, TS Sorceror...? I think that'd be in the same ballpark as Calth in terms of the amount of plastic in the box.
I don't have any interest in the minis that have been discussed so far, so it looks like my wallet will get a break when I pass on this one.
That would be my guess; as long as there are thirty mark 2 marines in the box I will be buying several boxes, I think the danger is if the box is mostly sisters and custodes and then it will depend largely on how good a job GW do with both.
To the earlier poster re. the similarities between sisters of battle and sisters of silence; the former have sculpts I think almost twenty years old and the latter have only been seen in artwork; nerd rage aside I can see the two aesthetics being merged into something very similar to each other, they are both at core armoured women carrying boltguns.
migooo wrote: So we get 2 new forces instead of updating you know SoB again. I really hope that the SOS are just testing the waters for SoB.
Though the 'good' guys might need 3 characters...
The board games definitely seem to be GW's way of gauging demand for new factions/models. DW:O sold well, now we're getting Codex: Deathwatch and Codex: Genestealer Cults. I'm hoping the same will be true for this game and SoB/Custodes.
Which is a good way, who wouldn't want a sanctuary 101 game ?, Or any other historic battle
for example
How about a game where you find Vandrie, in the Cathedral and put an end to him ala Silver tower?
I've been aware of GSC/ deathwatch minis since late last year. but sisters. nothing.
The thousand sons are a small legion, so it wouldn't be surprising fluff wise at least if they have minimal models, they will surely compensate them via rules to make up for this, then again, this GW we are talking about. Elite psychic marines that work in a different way to grey knights would be cool.
1x Terminator sorceror with staff and 20 tacs on the TS side, 1x Rune Armoured SW Lord with paragon blade, 5x Custodes and 5x Sisters would be very close to calth, with the custodes instead of terminators and the SOS instead of the contemptor. And TSons would immediately lose hard due to the SOS and the sorc with staff can't punch through armour and will get destroyed by the wolf lord, so that also keeps in line with previous GW releases.
Drasius wrote: 1x Terminator sorceror with staff and 20 tacs on the TS side, 1x Rune Armoured SW Lord with paragon blade, 5x Custodes and 5x Sisters would be very close to calth, with the custodes instead of terminators and the SOS instead of the contemptor. And TSons would immediately lose hard due to the SOS and the sorc with staff can't punch through armour and will get destroyed by the wolf lord, so that also keeps in line with previous GW releases.
Culuxes are Alpha+ level blanks, it's probably safe to assume that SoS aren't that calibre so won't get the same rules, so their blank range will be shorter or may work in a mechanic that reduces rather than flat out rebuffs their psychic capabilities, maybe reducing warp dice, higher saves against psychic powers but their regular armour isn't so hot to balance...
While I love the idea of costodes there is only around 300 of them according to fluff and rarely leave terra. What would you make in their codex? Jet bikes and flying rhinos? sweet yes but fluffy no. Didn't the sos get superseded by the culuxes temple? I know the psy gear they have is what makes them so powerful.
A psy Null zone with obsec and super shooty. Lose invisible and reality-shifting gimmick
I can see a super elite PA 5 woman squad in that role. Kinda anti grey knight.
ThirstySpaceMan wrote: While I love the idea of costodes there is only around 300 of them according to fluff and rarely leave terra. What would you make in their codex? Jet bikes and flying rhinos? sweet yes but fluffy no. Didn't the sos get superseded by the culuxes temple?
But I can see a super elite PA 5 woman squad in that role. Kinda anti grey knight.
SoS and Custodes may be part of the same codex, with other niche factions possibly, heresy era assassins, the knights errant, and very small, more like the Inquisitor codex, more of an ally force than a complete army.
ThirstySpaceMan wrote: While I love the idea of costodes there is only around 300 of them according to fluff and rarely leave terra. What would you make in their codex? Jet bikes and flying rhinos? sweet yes but fluffy no. Didn't the sos get superseded by the culuxes temple?
But I can see a super elite PA 5 woman squad in that role. Kinda anti grey knight.
SoS and Custodes may be part of the same codex, with other niche factions possibly, heresy era assassins, the knights errant, and very small, more like the Inquisitor codex, more of an ally force than a complete army.
ThirstySpaceMan wrote: While I love the idea of costodes there is only around 300 of them according to fluff and rarely leave terra. What would you make in their codex? Jet bikes and flying rhinos?
You know the role of Custodes during the Great Crusade and Heresy, right?
Lone warriors or small groups of them accompanying the expeditionary fleets that were considered "troubled". Lorgar and his Word Bearers merited a small band of Custodes after the whole "venerating the Emperor" thing got bananas.
If the wolves are actually that plain, for lack of a better term, than I'm interested. Can't stand all their shaggy barbarian looking nature boy style.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: If the wolves are actually that plain, for lack of a better term, than I'm interested. Can't stand all their shaggy barbarian looking nature boy style.
I imagine that like Betrayal at Calth, the marines will be a generic set so both sides use the same plastic mold.
Well, this seems to indicate that more Harlequin content may be coming.
And that is nothing if not amazingly incredible. Please, please let "black watchmen" be connected to the black library! I want Harlequin wraithbone constructs, or even mimes!
I replied to that post with "we've already seen the Eldrad sprue" to which the warhammer 40,000 facebook page replied "Are you a farseer?". The reply and my post was then deleted 12 minutes later.
I would prefer to see some Aspect Warriors make the transition to plastic. I would love to have some dynamic, plastic Striking Scorpions or Dark Reapers or, dare I dream, Warp Spiders
the_scotsman wrote: Well, this seems to indicate that more Harlequin content may be coming.
And that is nothing if not amazingly incredible. Please, please let "black watchmen" be connected to the black library! I want Harlequin wraithbone constructs, or even mimes!
the_scotsman wrote: Well, this seems to indicate that more Harlequin content may be coming.
And that is nothing if not amazingly incredible. Please, please let "black watchmen" be connected to the black library! I want Harlequin wraithbone constructs, or even mimes!
migooo wrote: So we get 2 new forces instead of updating you know SoB again. I really hope that the SOS are just testing the waters for SoB.
Though the 'good' guys might need 3 characters...
The board games definitely seem to be GW's way of gauging demand for new factions/models. DW:O sold well, now we're getting Codex: Deathwatch and Codex: Genestealer Cults. I'm hoping the same will be true for this game and SoB/Custodes.
Except codex and accompanying releases were decided and done when boardgame was released if they come this year so boardgame sales didn't affect decicion.
Harlequins are the followers of Cegoarach, who created the Black Library...why would they raid it?
but Demesnus is mentioned as a park on Ithraca in Honour to the Dead so (according to google) so not sure how that relates
I very much doubt that they're raiding a park on Ultramar.
Remember that humans and Eldar have different names for planets. Valedor to the Imperium was a Maiden World known as Duriel to the Eldar. I would be very surprised if Demesnus is not the name of a planet.
Ulthwé is raiding the library, and the Harlequins try to stop them? Some intra-Eldar fighting would be nice for a change, especially since craftworld and dark have been such BFF lately.
Ulthwe are doing something to implement a plan of, or to help, Cegorach. The Deathwatch are a potential obstacle.
Given the rumoured upcoming Deathwatch codex, the Deathwatch will likely come off rather well from the encounter even if the Eldar manage to succeed to some degree.
Given the size of the rumored Deathwatch release, and addition of Eldar stuff, will this be a set of mini-codices, or a single campaign book with rules for both?
Eldrad is getting a model, but will other Eldar stuff? And Cegorach, does that mean some more Harlequins?
Ah- I missed the "Black watchmen" bit- I misread it as something to do with the black library. [edit- I also missed a few posts!] I hope the eldar get some new plastic infantry models.. or an avatar.
Thought I could manage everything I ordered from Pizza Hut but now im too full, Cegorach's had the last laugh there the filthy Xenos deity.
Man with all these upcoming releases I dont know what to do. Beastclaw's tomorrow, Deathwatch, Chaos updates, new Heresy set with Sisters and Custodes which I have no idea of the time frame of all the other stuff. My wallet is going to suffer greatly.
Ah- I missed the "Black watchmen" bit- I misread it as something to do with the black library. [edit- I also missed a few posts!] I hope the eldar get some new plastic infantry models.. or an avatar.
could it be a reference to Ulthwes black guardians?
Ah- I missed the "Black watchmen" bit- I misread it as something to do with the black library. [edit- I also missed a few posts!] I hope the eldar get some new plastic infantry models.. or an avatar.
could it be a reference to Ulthwes black guardians?
Why would Ulthwe's Black Guardians attempt to stop Eldrad from doing anything?
This is sounding like it might be good. I couldn't care less about Deathwatch (where's my Genestealer Cult Codex damnit!) as I feel we have too many Marines as it is, but if Eldar are involved then I'm up for it.
Why am I sensing a Deathwatch vs Eldar campaign or boxed set that includes the plastic Eldrad and Captain Artemis? Almost like the Warzone Damocles boxes, but one Eldar and Deathwatch.
He is very clearly referring to the Deathwatch (the Black Watchmen is definitely an indication of DW more than anyone else). I look forward to seeing what they have in store for us.
Cant wait for the Chaos intro though, I hope Khorne and Tzeentch just wade in and start fething up for the Eldar and Deathwatch, enter the Black Crusade, Cegorach chokes on his brekky, The Golden Throne flickers, Tomb worlds awaken, Hive Fleets emerge, Ghazkull lets out a roar, the Tau their pants.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Given the size of the rumored Deathwatch release, and addition of Eldar stuff, will this be a set of mini-codices, or a single campaign book with rules for both?
Eldrad is getting a model, but will other Eldar stuff? And Cegorach, does that mean some more Harlequins?
Deathwatch is going to be a full codex. My understanding is it will be similar to Grey Knights in that it will be a low model count army with small, elite squads, assuming my source is to be believed.
the_scotsman wrote: Well, this seems to indicate that more Harlequin content may be coming.
And that is nothing if not amazingly incredible. Please, please let "black watchmen" be connected to the black library! I want Harlequin wraithbone constructs, or even mimes!
I really hope Eldrad has a few mates accompanying his release as the plastic model looks exactly like the existing model - a great bit of plastic engineering, be nice to see something new too.
silverstu wrote: I really hope Eldrad has a few mates accompanying his release as the plastic model looks exactly like the existing model - a great bit of plastic engineering, be nice to see something new too.
it is high time they released another group of aspect warriors in plastic. I would love to see Swooping Hawks or Striking Scorpions to be honest.
silverstu wrote: I really hope Eldrad has a few mates accompanying his release as the plastic model looks exactly like the existing model - a great bit of plastic engineering, be nice to see something new too.
it is high time they released another group of aspect warriors in plastic. I would love to see Swooping Hawks or Striking Scorpions to be honest.
Personally I will give members of my family away for plastic Shining Spears.
Can anyone explain to me what this Deathwatch vs Eldar going to be? I read Lady Atia mention something of this, but know how Deathwatch relate to Eldar.
She said something about wait till next week and it will be awesome. Thing is I can't get excited since I have no idea how the two release to each other.
Davor wrote: Can anyone explain to me what this Deathwatch vs Eldar going to be? I read Lady Atia mention something of this, but know how Deathwatch relate to Eldar.
She said something about wait till next week and it will be awesome. Thing is I can't get excited since I have no idea how the two release to each other.
*edit* stupid auto correct.
You know as much as we do, it seems. Eldrad is a part of it though, and harlies may also be.
RedemptionNL, on 29 Jul 2016 - 7:44 PM, said:
Deathwatch versus Eldar I suppose?
That would seem to be the most logical conclusion.
We have a winner. Start of August should be Deathwatch and Ulthwé. End of August should be the Chaos stuff.
Slipstreams, on 29 Jul 2016 - 7:58 PM, said:
So, basically next week is the start?
Yep.
September WD wraps up August, and they start to tease today for monday already. GG new GW.
[Natfka's 'Seven campaign army sets' rumor is meant]
does this give credence to that huge rumor dump from 2 weeks ago?
Nope, because that "rumor dump" was based on the september WD info, Magnus info aswell as the Eldrad Sprue that was already seen before it got posted ...
Some nice ideas, but you are free to ignore the most of it, afaik.
unmercifulconker wrote: Cant wait for the Chaos intro though, I hope Khorne and Tzeentch just wade in and start fething up for the Eldar and Deathwatch, enter the Black Crusade, Cegorach chokes on his brekky, The Golden Throne flickers, Tomb worlds awaken, Hive Fleets emerge, Ghazkull lets out a roar, the Tau their pants.
End times hype.
Ah well we can always build more Riptides. Then the Riptide AX-2-0 enters the fray. It has two ion accelerator guns default and can replace them with two pulse blast cannon d shots. Can move and fire all its weapons. Has two smaller weapons on each shoulder. Novalitch reactor gives it a 2+ shield and can overcharge for a 2+ shield reroll. 12 wounds per model. Oh it can only jump jet 3d6 instead of 4d6 since it's slightly heavier.
Riptide AX-2-0 Wings where they can shoot all their weapons twice once per game. Only.... 200 points a model.
unmercifulconker wrote: Cant wait for the Chaos intro though, I hope Khorne and Tzeentch just wade in and start fething up for the Eldar and Deathwatch, enter the Black Crusade, Cegorach chokes on his brekky, The Golden Throne flickers, Tomb worlds awaken, Hive Fleets emerge, Ghazkull lets out a roar, the Tau their pants.
End times hype.
Ah well we can always build more Riptides. Then the Riptide AX-2-0 enters the fray. It has two ion accelerator guns default and can replace them with two pulse blast cannon d shots. Can move and fire all its weapons. Has two smaller weapons on each shoulder. Novalitch reactor gives it a 2+ shield and can overcharge for a 2+ shield reroll. 12 wounds per model. Oh it can only jump jet 3d6 instead of 4d6 since it's slightly heavier.
Riptide AX-2-0 Wings where they can shoot all their weapons twice once per game. Only.... 200 points a model.
Would be nice to see some ulthwei themed formations, maybe one with the guardian squads that must take warlocks and allowing the warlocks to roll once to cast a power but cast both parts or something.
Mantle wrote: Would be nice to see some ulthwei themed formations, maybe one with the guardian squads that must take warlocks and allowing the warlocks to roll once to cast a power but cast both parts or something.
More formations could potentially be very cool. Wraith constructs and angry elven battle wizards in space are two themes I can't get enough.
Recently I posted some interesting rumours for the foreseeable future. I have an update with some very exciting releases for this year.
GW's flagship game has been rather quiet in recent months and AOS has been stealing the headlines in the meantime. I'm here to tell you that 40k is coming back in a big way.
-This year we're going to see the start of something called "The time of Ending!" Games Workshop is going to advance the storyline.
-You've all heard the rumors of plastic Deamon Primarchs. I'm here to tell you they aren't the only ones. Before Christmas this year we're going to see the release of some loyalists as well.
-ROGAL DORN is going to be the first loyalist release. This is going to be a plastic kit specifically designed for 40k. He'll be missing one of his hands, in it's place will be a ranged weapon of some kind (this detail was quite sketchy however)
-Other Loyalists will also be returning eventually. Guilliman will be fully healed alongside some other surprises.
Here's a big development: Some of the Primarchs will return to lead forces OTHER than their original Legions/Chapters, and will have different allegiances.
-Alpharius (or Omegon?) will be fighting against the forces of Chaos, whilst the Khan might return to battle the Imperium! (These details were sketchy and I believe these might just be examples)
-The plastic Primarchs will be specifically for 40k with different sets of rules, looks and wargear ALTHOUGH there might be overlap with some of the existing FW models.
-Horus Heresy second boardgame will be released around November this year.
-Plastic Warhound will not be released this year.
-Warhammer 40k 8th edition will have 2 tiers of game. A streamlined version and more advanced play. Also free downloads for rules in the same way as AoS will start this year following the next campaign book. This will not be for all of the rules however.
-The time of Ending will lead into 8th edition which is out next year.
Recently I posted some interesting rumours for the foreseeable future. I have an update with some very exciting releases for this year.
GW's flagship game has been rather quiet in recent months and AOS has been stealing the headlines in the meantime. I'm here to tell you that 40k is coming back in a big way.
-This year we're going to see the start of something called "The time of Ending!" Games Workshop is going to advance the storyline.
-You've all heard the rumors of plastic Deamon Primarchs. I'm here to tell you they aren't the only ones. Before Christmas this year we're going to see the release of some loyalists as well.
-ROGAL DORN is going to be the first loyalist release. This is going to be a plastic kit specifically designed for 40k. He'll be missing one of his hands, in it's place will be a ranged weapon of some kind (this detail was quite sketchy however)
-Other Loyalists will also be returning eventually. Guilliman will be fully healed alongside some other surprises.
Here's a big development: Some of the Primarchs will return to lead forces OTHER than their original Legions/Chapters, and will have different allegiances.
-Alpharius (or Omegon?) will be fighting against the forces of Chaos, whilst the Khan might return to battle the Imperium! (These details were sketchy and I believe these might just be examples)
-The plastic Primarchs will be specifically for 40k with different sets of rules, looks and wargear ALTHOUGH there might be overlap with some of the existing FW models.
-Horus Heresy second boardgame will be released around November this year.
-Plastic Warhound will not be released this year.
-Warhammer 40k 8th edition will have 2 tiers of game. A streamlined version and more advanced play. Also free downloads for rules in the same way as AoS will start this year following the next campaign book. This will not be for all of the rules however.
-The time of Ending will lead into 8th edition which is out next year.
The Primarchs in 40k......I just don't see it when 30k exists.
GW has never mixed and matched units/rules with anything from Forgeworld so I don't see them making 40k rules for their existing primarch models. And why would they make a 40k version of Rogal Dorn before a 30k version?
Moving the timeline to the end times basically when chaos haven't had a new codex since 2012? Fat chance.
Plastic Warhound? Warhounds are over 400 dollars. I don't see GW fixing the warhound so its the equivalent of the Stompa kit tbh.
edit:
DarkStarSabre wrote: Meanwhile the plastic sisters wait to be released in their plastic thunderhawk.
the new Sisters start collecting box will include:
-The Emperor of Mankind (can also be built as Horus)
-10 Sisters of Battle
-3 Primarchs
-Thunderhawk Gunship
Recently I posted some interesting rumours for the foreseeable future. I have an update with some very exciting releases for this year.
GW's flagship game has been rather quiet in recent months and AOS has been stealing the headlines in the meantime. I'm here to tell you that 40k is coming back in a big way.
-This year we're going to see the start of something called "The time of Ending!" Games Workshop is going to advance the storyline.
-You've all heard the rumors of plastic Deamon Primarchs. I'm here to tell you they aren't the only ones. Before Christmas this year we're going to see the release of some loyalists as well.
-ROGAL DORN is going to be the first loyalist release. This is going to be a plastic kit specifically designed for 40k. He'll be missing one of his hands, in it's place will be a ranged weapon of some kind (this detail was quite sketchy however)
-Other Loyalists will also be returning eventually. Guilliman will be fully healed alongside some other surprises.
Here's a big development: Some of the Primarchs will return to lead forces OTHER than their original Legions/Chapters, and will have different allegiances.
-Alpharius (or Omegon?) will be fighting against the forces of Chaos, whilst the Khan might return to battle the Imperium! (These details were sketchy and I believe these might just be examples)
-The plastic Primarchs will be specifically for 40k with different sets of rules, looks and wargear ALTHOUGH there might be overlap with some of the existing FW models.
-Horus Heresy second boardgame will be released around November this year.
-Plastic Warhound will not be released this year.
-Warhammer 40k 8th edition will have 2 tiers of game. A streamlined version and more advanced play. Also free downloads for rules in the same way as AoS will start this year following the next campaign book. This will not be for all of the rules however.
-The time of Ending will lead into 8th edition which is out next year.
Atia indirectly confirmed this rumor (she added it to the rumors summary).
With current rumours and the way GW is heading and the popularity of 30k. I completely see much of her above coming true.
Alpharius has a twin primarch brother omegon and it makes a lot of sense to see the two primarchs split one on the imperium and one on chaos side.
Dorn missing a hand with a weapon attached makes a lot of sense as well.
Even khan returning and fighting the imperium because he is not happy with the way things gate going makes a lot of sense except it will be odd to create a space marine codex with a non-loyalist, non-chaos chapter.
I fully expect primarchs to start returning in 40k. With all the solid rumour mongers starting to say this I'm surprised people are still in denial about it.
The Primarchs in 40k......I just don't see it when 30k exists.
Except the very best rumour mongers have confirmed Daemon Magnus is on the way for 40K as a plastic kit..
Add leman Russ
the fact 30k is doing so well only further supports GW to bring primarchs back in some form. As much as GW is happy fw is profitable they still want 40k to be the flagship product. If they believe primarchs will boost 40k sales you will be darn sure they will release them.
The fact a stronger codex isn't released for chaos also has never had any bearing on GW releases. They will continue to push fluff and campaigns that show that chaos space marines are the single biggest threat in the galaxy even if chaos is lagging behind on a weak 7th Ed codex. But they will likely jump onto those campaigns and books with at least some form of chaos releases (which I'm fairly sure will be one of the first 8th Ed releases along with another space marine book, lol)
There is no drastic change we have been moving toward lord of war type figures in 40k the last 3 years. It also gives GW a chance to make a generals handbook type brb for 40k. It also is no where near a setting change as AoS. They pretty much deleted entire armies, stripped out complete lines of models, and completely changed the story line. No rumours in 40k suggest anything near this, just the fact primarchs and other larger figures are returning in preparation for the end. Which is pretty much where we have been at the last 20years with 40k except now with some lord of war types leading us.
The manager of a GW store I frequent was talking to me while I speculated what was going to be inside of the Ulthwe vs Deathwatch box. He is a very successful manager with a store near GWHQ so it wouldn't surprise me if he did have knowledge of this. He gave me a propper wink wink nudge nudge about what he 'thinks' will be in it. He said he ''thinks'' It will be Harlequins vs Death watch set for £95 containing £200 worth of miniatures, with all unique/new Marine models and that I should save up because he thinks it'll be the kinda deal lots of people will want to go half and half on.
The Primarchs in 40k......I just don't see it when 30k exists.
Except the very best rumour mongers have confirmed Daemon Magnus is on the way for 40K as a plastic kit..
Add leman Russ
the fact 30k is doing so well only further supports GW to bring primarchs back in some form. As much as GW is happy fw is profitable they still want 40k to be the flagship product. If they believe primarchs will boost 40k sales you will be darn sure they will release them.
The fact a stronger codex isn't released for chaos also has never had any bearing on GW releases. They will continue to push fluff and campaigns that show that chaos space marines are the single biggest threat in the galaxy even if chaos is lagging behind on a weak 7th Ed codex. But they will likely jump onto those campaigns and books with at least some form of chaos releases (which I'm fairly sure will be one of the first 8th Ed releases along with another space marine book, lol)
There is no drastic change we have been moving toward lord of war type figures in 40k the last 3 years. It also gives GW a chance to make a generals handbook type brb for 40k.
You don't consider moving from minute to midnight to midnight a change. I think people are being wildly optimistic over this despite an incredible lack of evidence.
It's not a minute to midnight to midnight. It's a minute to midnight to 1 second to midnight.
It's basically the exact same place we are at right now but with a few lord of war figures leading some factions. Nothing changes except some politics on what was the emporer intent, who should lead, how they should lead and some infighting on the imperium side and a bunch of chaos surges as they try to retrieve some knowledge by the old ones from the black library about the warp. This is the lore that's been building up for 20 years and we will basically still be waiting another 20 years for the next move.
Nothing like AoS wiping out entire factions, entire lines of models, and making alternate dimensional worlds that completely throw the old lore out.
Midnight is basically the emporer dying/ascending, chaos and the material world colliding into one dimension, elder being absorbed into slannesh or slannesh getting killed off, things like that where entire factions are erased But none of this is happening. 40k still has a long way to go before GW goes this route. Heck even the poorest selling army in 40k still sells well.
pm713 wrote: It would be a dramatic change in the setting and last time that was a disaster. Why would people believe it?
Well, according to the financial report, AoS is already outselling fantasy so not a disaster, plus the rumour says advance the timeline, not go all the way.
pm713 wrote: It would be a dramatic change in the setting and last time that was a disaster. Why would people believe it?
Well, according to the financial report, AoS is already outselling fantasy so not a disaster, plus the rumour says advance the timeline, not go all the way.
You're right AoS was so well recieved. I'm sure the constant stream of new stuff is nothing to do with selling. It isn't doing well. They took a year to finish it and the reason it profits is GW drowning people in new stuff. Things could have been handled much better by anyone with a brain.
pm713 wrote: It would be a dramatic change in the setting and last time that was a disaster. Why would people believe it?
Well, according to the financial report, AoS is already outselling fantasy so not a disaster, plus the rumour says advance the timeline, not go all the way.
Space Marine Tactical squads were bringing in more money than the entire line of Fantasy was, at one point, so outselling Fantasy is a pretty low bench mark.
To be honest, I don't see why 30K just doesn't get taken over by GW proper. It can exist side by side with 40K. It already does, it's just harder to get the books and models for.
When do these list type rumours ever come to fruition? when someone gets specific info, like Panda or Atia, they generally give a small snippet of info.
pm713 wrote: It would be a dramatic change in the setting and last time that was a disaster. Why would people believe it?
Well, according to the financial report, AoS is already outselling fantasy so not a disaster, plus the rumour says advance the timeline, not go all the way.
Space Marine Tactical squads were bringing in more money than the entire line of Fantasy was, at one point, so outselling Fantasy is a pretty low bench mark.
To be honest, I don't see why 30K just doesn't get taken over by GW proper. It can exist side by side with 40K. It already does, it's just harder to get the books and models for.
If GW take over that seems like the beginning of the end. I can see how GW treats the armies they have. Not having that is one of the best things about 30k.
It wouldn't be as big a conceptual wrench though. Fantasy went from a 'traditional' big-army rank-and-file game to a looser, raiding band/skirmish-style one, with some dramatic aesthetic style changes.
If - IF - it does pan out, it's safe to say that for power armour players at least, the base looks won't change much, unless 30k becomes the new 40k (if you get me). The Space Marine sells. No matter how much we may complain about their ubiquity, I really can't see them going anywhere. Further, I doubt some with popular releases lately (Quins, especially if the box set rumour pans out? AdMech? Tau?) are going anywhere, and especially not things that are more 'protectable'.
That said, I'd never have expected AoS. However, sci-fantasy art styles don't seem to have moved away from 40k (apart from cyberpunk-y and anime-ish imagery) so much as it seems to have inspired a lot more. What I'm trying to say here is that I saw a lot more flashy, high-fantasy (WoW-esque?) art in recent years than I did gritty 'Warhammer world' level. I can imagine artists and sculptors feeling a bit hemmed in at adhering to a ... less currently fashionable aesthetic. 40k doesn't seem to have a similar snag. (Caveat - my experience only, of course).
If GW really wants to bring Primarchs back, it's a bad move. Part of the beauty of 40K is all the mystery around primarchs / the emperor, and the myths that surround them. A world where gods walks amongst men is not really a dark world. Also, good luck balancing that when they can't balance knight and eldars already.
WhiteDog wrote: If GW really wants to bring Primarchs back, it's a bad move. Part of the beauty of 40K is all the mystery around primarchs / the emperor, and the myths that surround them. A world where gods walks amongst men is not really a dark world. Also, good luck balancing that when they can't balance knight and eldars already.
A few years I would have totally agreed with you, but I'm afraid that particular Pandora's box has been wide open ever since FW and BL started on the Heresy.
WhiteDog wrote: If GW really wants to bring Primarchs back, it's a bad move. Part of the beauty of 40K is all the mystery around primarchs / the emperor, and the myths that surround them. A world where gods walks amongst men is not really a dark world. Also, good luck balancing that when they can't balance knight and eldars already.
A few years I would have totally agreed with you, but I'm afraid that particular Pandora's box has been wide open ever since FW and BL started on the Heresy.
That doesn't address the balance concerns nor does it change the fact they'll **** up the story.
^this. So much of the new fluff GW has put out is on part with really bad fanwank. I would love to see them move things on, but have no faith in their ability to do so.
WhiteDog wrote: If GW really wants to bring Primarchs back, it's a bad move. Part of the beauty of 40K is all the mystery around primarchs / the emperor, and the myths that surround them. A world where gods walks amongst men is not really a dark world. Also, good luck balancing that when they can't balance knight and eldars already.
A few years I would have totally agreed with you, but I'm afraid that particular Pandora's box has been wide open ever since FW and BL started on the Heresy.
That doesn't address the balance concerns nor does it change the fact they'll **** up the story.
Most people will see a shiny plastic primarch's to paint, build and play with not his story and that's what GW are hoping for.
WhiteDog wrote: If GW really wants to bring Primarchs back, it's a bad move. Part of the beauty of 40K is all the mystery around primarchs / the emperor, and the myths that surround them. A world where gods walks amongst men is not really a dark world. Also, good luck balancing that when they can't balance knight and eldars already.
A few years I would have totally agreed with you, but I'm afraid that particular Pandora's box has been wide open ever since FW and BL started on the Heresy.
That doesn't address the balance concerns nor does it change the fact they'll **** up the story.
Most people will see a shiny plastic primarch's to paint, build and play with not his story and that's what GW are hoping for.
They could get that already.
So basically an unbalanced, badly written, expensive thing is alright because it's new.
WhiteDog wrote: If GW really wants to bring Primarchs back, it's a bad move. Part of the beauty of 40K is all the mystery around primarchs / the emperor, and the myths that surround them. A world where gods walks amongst men is not really a dark world. Also, good luck balancing that when they can't balance knight and eldars already.
A few years I would have totally agreed with you, but I'm afraid that particular Pandora's box has been wide open ever since FW and BL started on the Heresy.
That doesn't address the balance concerns nor does it change the fact they'll **** up the story.
Most people will see a shiny plastic primarch's to paint, build and play with not his story and that's what GW are hoping for.
They could get that already.
So basically an unbalanced, badly written, expensive thing is alright because it's new.
Well yeah people will buy it if it's new and it looks pretty and it's their 40k version. That's why people will buy it. Is it right? Well I can't say since I stopped playing 40k since GW can never seem to get chaos right. All I can say is vote with your wallet it's the only language business's understand.
WhiteDog wrote: If GW really wants to bring Primarchs back, it's a bad move. Part of the beauty of 40K is all the mystery around primarchs / the emperor, and the myths that surround them. A world where gods walks amongst men is not really a dark world. Also, good luck balancing that when they can't balance knight and eldars already.
A few years I would have totally agreed with you, but I'm afraid that particular Pandora's box has been wide open ever since FW and BL started on the Heresy.
That doesn't address the balance concerns nor does it change the fact they'll **** up the story.
Most people will see a shiny plastic primarch's to paint, build and play with not his story and that's what GW are hoping for.
They could get that already.
So basically an unbalanced, badly written, expensive thing is alright because it's new.
Well yeah people will buy it if it's new and it looks pretty and it's their 40k version. That's why people will buy it. Is it right? Well I can't say since I stopped playing 40k since GW can never seem to get chaos right. All I can say is vote with your wallet it's the only language business's understand.
People also won't buy it for those reasons.
The vote with your wallet stuff is rubbish. It won't make a difference to GW because it means nothing. You didn't buy the new thing but why? Not your army, don't like it, can't afford, won't use it, no room, have another companies model and the list goes on.
This is anecdotal almost everyone I talked to that bought Alarielle the everqueen when it was put out of stock for a few weeks. Bought her simply for the fact that she looks "pretty".
People walk into my local GW pick her up and buy her. Manager ask's why? She looks nice....
From what I have seen they did not buy her because of how she played or her story.
Now 40k might be different in terms of gaming but I doubt many people will buy him for "lore reasons"
Well in my experience voting with your wallet is normally the only way to get a company's attention. I said the same thing to all those people who bought total war warhammer and telling me they want GW to burn for axing fantasy look how that turned out?
pm713 wrote: From the perspective of GW what is the difference between person A and Person B.
Person A does not buy Alarielle because they play Death.
Person B does not buy Alarielle because they are protesting.
What is the difference?
What will happen is that GW will look and wonder why it's not selling if numbers are extremely low. Normally what then happens they look and see overall what the customers concern is with the product and act accordingly. Now will everyone be satisfied with the change or improvement? No AOS is a pretty good example of that.
It's like total war and the beastmen DLC people on the forums complained about the price yet it's third in the global steam sales. Of course sega's pockets are lined with the people who feel the price is okay if no one bought the thing then they will look at the consumers concerns on the product and change the price.
pm713 wrote: From the perspective of GW what is the difference between person A and Person B.
Person A does not buy Alarielle because they play Death.
Person B does not buy Alarielle because they are protesting.
What is the difference?
What will happen is that GW will look and wonder why it's not selling if numbers are extremely low. Normally what then happens they look and see overall what the customers concern is with the product and act accordingly. Now will everyone be satisfied with the change or improvement? No AOS is a pretty good example of that.
It's like total war and the beastmen DLC people on the forums complained about the price yet it's third in the global steam sales. Of course sega's pockets are lined with the people who feel the price is okay if no one bought the thing then they will look at the consumers concerns on the product and change the price.
Triszin wrote: If Rogal Dorn is the first Primarch to return then.
I expect Rogal to return in an upcoming campaign involving necron.
The necron lord collector dude, was stated to have something along the lines of this.
"A massive figure clad in baroque power armor Locked in stasis"
I assume that Dorn, so he gets out somehow and goes, I gotta do stuff and things!@
Why does everyone think that's Dorn?!
They don't. The most touted explanation is that it's Vulkan - but that's just as much speculation as Dorn. Apparently a WD issue hinted it was Vulkan, but a hint is all. Note that, Trazyn the Infinite also has Brother Cassiel of the Blood Angels, who was said to be a 'giant', clad in his baroque Deathwatch armour and that Trazyn has twice goaded the Salamanders into attacking him, seeking to obtain the Spear of Vulkan. So he either has Vulkan and wants to complete the collection with the Spear and also has Cassiel, or simply has Cassiel and the Vulkan thing has been retconned by Cassiels appearance - you choose.
EDIT: The WD in question is Feb 22nd 2014 and says:
White Dwarf wrote:In Trazyn’s background it describes a lengthy selection of his trophies, including a “giant
of a man clad in baroque power armour”. The team has furiously debated exactly who this
could be. Adam argues that it could well be the Primarch Vulkan, while Jes insists that
there simply isn’t enough evidence to make such a spurious claim.
So, it stems from highly ambiguous debating of the WD team.
Triszin wrote: If Rogal Dorn is the first Primarch to return then.
I expect Rogal to return in an upcoming campaign involving necron.
The necron lord collector dude, was stated to have something along the lines of this.
"A massive figure clad in baroque power armor Locked in stasis"
I assume that Dorn, so he gets out somehow and goes, I gotta do stuff and things!@
Why does everyone think that's Dorn?!
They don't. The most touted explanation is that it's Vulkan - but that's just as much speculation as Dorn. Apparently a WD issue hinted it was Vulkan, but a hint is all. Note that, Trazyn the Infinite also has Brother Cassiel of the Blood Angels, who was said to be a 'giant', clad in his baroque Deathwatch armour and that Trazyn has twice goaded the Salamanders into attacking him, seeking to obtain the Spear of Vulkan. So he either has Vulkan and wants to complete the collection with the Spear and also has Cassiel, or simply has Cassiel and the Vulkan thing has been retconned by Cassiels appearance - you choose.
I only ever see people saying Dorn hence my impression of things.
I just don't understand how so many rumors are suddenly appearing out of the woodwork after the Eldrad sprue got leaked. Its just too convenient regardless of how many people's 'inside sources' (your store manager just wants you to buy more models guys) say otherwise.
Are people seriously trying to spread the rumor that they would make a 40k version of Rogal Dorn (with a gun hand apparently) before they make a 30k version when they are ALREADY MAKING THE 30k PRIMARCHS. I just don't see it. Magnus I can buy because the demon primarchs are for all intents and purposes, greater demons at this point. Heck, Aggron is literally a bloodthirster. I don't see GW making warhammer into Age of 30k Primarchs.
Months ago they said they will be letting more employees see what they are working on and share it. As well as telling people more in advance what it upcoming.
pm713 wrote: From the perspective of GW what is the difference between person A and Person B.
Person A does not buy Alarielle because they play Death.
Person B does not buy Alarielle because they are protesting.
What is the difference?
To GW there isn't one, but really what does that matter?
GW isn't beholden to your whims anymore than they are to mine. The only difference between us is that I'm person A and you are person B, and GW will make whatever products they think are interesting or will reach their target audience regardless of what either of us want. It just so happens taht I'm enjoying a lot of their changes while you aren't.
Maybe, rather than asking how you can bully GW into doing what you want, you should instead start asking if you are still part of GW's target audience?
It could be a total disaster or it could be really good, either way I'm keeping a sneaky eye on a few "how to paint yellow space marines" tutorials In a slightly related note https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/970 Atia's posting of the Luna wolves badge in the coments has me thinking that we might be seeing some 30k specific colours in the future.
Don Savik wrote: I don't see GW making warhammer into Age of 30k Primarchs.
18 months ago people didn't see them dumping fb. Where that got us?
Gw needs to up the sales big time if they don't want to end up ip renter only. They either try something or end up with dead miniature section. What they will try is another thing but they do what they want and existing fluff is irrelevant. What matters is what they think will boost sales. Which isn't same as what forum actives might want.
Okay so if this is a campaign like weve been seeing with Call of the wulfen and eldar get their own rules and such, wouldn't this be the 3rd time in 3 years eldar have been updated? SW and CD got more or less updated when War Zone Fenris came out.
pepsuber wrote: Okay so if this is a campaign like weve been seeing with Call of the wulfen and eldar get their own rules and such, wouldn't this be the 3rd time in 3 years eldar have been updated? SW and CD got more or less updated when War Zone Fenris came out.
Eldar are in overly good shape, rules wise, but their model range could use some updating. Putting them up against Deathwatch makes sense thematically (Xenos-hunters) and lets them do a model-centric release for Eldar, while Deathwatch are rules focused with a couple kits but not a huge range. Later, they can do Genestealer cult and have them face off against the established Deathwatch, with the focus on a new codex and models for Cult, as opposed to splitting interest between them and Deathwatch by putting out two full codices with both rules and models at the same time.
18 months before AoS the reliable rumormongers said that WFB is dead and will be replaced with a new game, bad selling miniatures ranges removed and the setting rebooted Hastings and Harry made this very clear. Half a year earlier there were the leaks from Spain who had reported this for the first time.
Now the reliable rumormongers, Atia and SP, are reporting there will not be a reboot of the setting but they will continue the timeline in small steps There is also Aaron Dembski-Bowden with a more conservative approach pointing out this is most likely more about fleshing out current events. The reliable rumormongers made it clear they are not Aos-ificating the rules and the setting - even responding directly to hysteria posts.
And to get the facts right, Daemon Primarchs were nothing spectacular in Epic, we used them during the 2nd Edition in every Chaos army. GW is just taking use of their plastic technology to bring Epic units into 40k - like they did with the Lord of Skulls, Baneblade, Stompa etc.
And people are still not getting that 40k has been in the End Times, Ragnarok, Goetterdaemmerung (add all the other terms) since 1987? It means nothing. It is just the 5-minutes to midnight setting.
The Time of Ending (since 5th Edition?) has been a thing for at least 8 years. How is that a surprise now? They are already with this for a while.
Those people who cant get over GW rebooting WFB are now driving the fearmongering train because they still havent understood that their 'golden game' was just a turd. (Sorry to say, I like WFB too, but it was in a bad situation)
40k is the best selling and most played wargame on the planet. Why do people cant see the difference? If GW are pragmatical they wont even think about changing any rules or advancing the setting much - because their is no need, no pressure to.
Are people still basing thoughts on reliable information, logic and rationality? Or is fearmongering the new ccol kid in town all follow now?
This is not at all an identical situation to the bad selling WFB. Yes, things will change, maybe even the Emperor dies and gets ressurrected. What would be the issue with that actually? We would then have three settings, 30k, 40k, 42k. How is that a problem or much different to now where we have two already?
Warhams-77 wrote: 18 months before AoS the reliable rumormongers said that WFB is dead and will be replaced with a new game, bad selling miniatures ranges removed and the setting rebooted Hastings and Harry made this very clear. Half a year earlier there were the leaks from Spain who had reported this for the first time.
Now the reliable rumormongers, Atia and SP, are reporting there will not be a reboot of the setting but they will continue the timeline in small steps There is also Aaron Dembski-Bowden with a more conservative approach pointing out this is most likely more about fleshing out current events. The reliable rumormongers made it clear they are not Aos-ificating both the rules and the setting - even respondind directly to hysteria.
And to get the facts right, Daemon Primarchs were nothing spectacular in Epic, we used them during the 2nd Edition in every Chaos army. GW is just taking use of their plastic technology to bring them into 40k - like they did with the Lord of Skull, Baneblades, Stompa etc.
And people are still not getting that 40k has been in the End Times, Ragnarok, Goetterdaemmerung (add all the other terms) since 1987? It means nothing. It just a 5-minutes for midnight setting the game has always been set in. Check the rule books. The term End Times has always been there.
The Times of Ending (since 5th Edition?) have been a thing for at least 8 years. How is that a surprise?
Those people who cant get over GW rebooting WFB are now driving the fearmongering train because they still havent understand that their 'golden game' was just a turd.
40k is the best selling and most played wargame on the planet. Why do people cant see the differences? If they are pragmatical they wont even think about changing any rules or advancing the setting much - because their is no need to.
Are people still basing thoughts on reliable information, logic and rationality? Or is fearmongering the new ccol kid in town all follow now?
This is not at all an identical situation to the low selling WFB.
Except people are still ignoring the reliable sources and believe the made up bullocks...
Gamgee wrote: Months ago they said they will be letting more employees see what they are working on and share it. As well as telling people more in advance what it upcoming.
Can I get the source on this? Because Rountree or not, this sounds pretty bogus to me. Yes, GW have been more 'user-friendly' with their rules and to some extent pricing, but the advance notice on stuff is ONLY from Forge World and the Specialist Games studio, both of which are separate entities to GW
Gamgee wrote: Months ago they said they will be letting more employees see what they are working on and share it. As well as telling people more in advance what it upcoming.
Can I get the source on this? Because Rountree or not, this sounds pretty bogus to me. Yes, GW have been more 'user-friendly' with their rules and to some extent pricing, but the advance notice on stuff is ONLY from Forge World and the Specialist Games studio, both of which are separate entities to GW
Well, there's been things with a longer preorder date than before. General's handbook was 3 weeks, and Lost Patrol and the Gorechosen games were 2/3 months. Might be them experimenting with longer preorders and advance notice on products.
I cant believe they meant anything but showing employees things like the Generals handbook in advance. Which they also showed to selected players and tournament organizers.
Regarding Ishagu's rumors and credibility, these are old, first time posted in May, then again around the 17th of July. His rumors about HH2 contents are contradicting SP's and dont mention SoS and Custodes at all. I dont believe him until he has proven to be reliable.
I think many of these less reliable rumors are just posted to provoke a reaction from those who are in the know.
I am not even going to dignify that wish list with a response. It is typical BoLS level garbage.
So are people thinking that the Ulthwe v. Deathwatch stuff will be a game, boxed set, or some releases with a campaign book tying them together? We know a Chaos campaign is coming, so I can't imagine they would put another one out so close to it.
One thing I am kinda thinking is a boxed set with Eldrad, some Guardians, and a Wave Serpent v. Captain Artemis, a Deathwatch Kill Team (possibly made from a Sternguard Squad), and the Deathwatch Flyer that Sad Panda mentioned. Lady Atia said it is Deathwatch v. Eldar coming, so that is what is leading me to that conclusion. I hope it is more of a general release of different stuff. I am looking forward to supplementing my DW:OK stuff to make a more legitimate army.
pm713 wrote: From the perspective of GW what is the difference between person A and Person B. Person A does not buy Alarielle because they play Death.
Person B does not buy Alarielle because they are protesting.
What is the difference?
To GW there isn't one, but really what does that matter?
GW isn't beholden to your whims anymore than they are to mine. The only difference between us is that I'm person A and you are person B, and GW will make whatever products they think are interesting or will reach their target audience regardless of what either of us want. It just so happens taht I'm enjoying a lot of their changes while you aren't.
Maybe, rather than asking how you can bully GW into doing what you want, you should instead start asking if you are still part of GW's target audience?
GW should be beholden to our whims. I am person C who is buying Warmahordes, X-Wing, and MtG for my kids now instead of my money going to GW. So yeah they should be going on our whims. GW is not giving me a reason to buy or I should be saying NOT TO BUY other companies product.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Warhams-77 wrote: 1(Sorry to say, I like WFB too, but it was in a bad situation)
Very well said except for this part.
Only put in a bad situation because of GW, not because people were protesting or voting with their wallets. So instead of fixing what GW screwed up they threw out the baby with the bath water. Just seem like the fans are being blamed here because something needed to be fixed. We are always told to vote with our wallet and we did. So voting with our wallet is our fault for scrapping Fantasy? I never played Fantasy but I can understand where they are coming from. Not their fault Fantasy became a bad game. All the blame goes on GW on how they handled Fantasy and 40K during those times.
At least we can agree Mr Roundtree will not be as stupid as Kirby was. Yes Kirby expanded the GW brand, but he also shrunk the sales of those brands they made. Now the AGE OF ROUNDTREE has begun.
Still haven't got round to de spruing never mind painting Overkill yet. This release may give me the kick up the backside I need Speaking of Overkill I wonder if the 40k rules for Cassius and co will be in the dex?
pm713 wrote: From the perspective of GW what is the difference between person A and Person B.
Person A does not buy Alarielle because they play Death.
Person B does not buy Alarielle because they are protesting.
What is the difference?
To GW there isn't one, but really what does that matter?
GW isn't beholden to your whims anymore than they are to mine. The only difference between us is that I'm person A and you are person B, and GW will make whatever products they think are interesting or will reach their target audience regardless of what either of us want. It just so happens taht I'm enjoying a lot of their changes while you aren't.
Maybe, rather than asking how you can bully GW into doing what you want, you should instead start asking if you are still part of GW's target audience?
GW should be beholden to our whims. I am person C who is buying Warmahordes, X-Wing, and MtG for my kids now instead of my money going to GW. So yeah they should be going on our whims. GW is not giving me a reason to buy or I should be saying NOT TO BUY other companies product.
Either you don't understand my point or you dont understand how businesses operate. GW is no beholden to your whims, my whims, Dakkas whims, etc. Period. Full stop.
As long as GW meets or exceeds their targets for sales and growth then thats what matters to them. The entirety of Dakka and Warseer could never buy a GW product again and it wouldnt matter so long as they still hit their targets.
There's a ridiculous frame of mind which seems apparent in a large number of "critics" in GW threads where because they can't find reason to buy GW products it is somehow a problem.
The reality is that stagnant businesses are doomed to fail because even if you want to stay consistent with what made you successful in the past, the world around you wont stop changing for your benefit. And for every change you make trying to grow your customer base it is inevitable that you will lose some of you old customers along the way. What matters though is that the customers to you are gaining are either greater in number or sales than who you leave behind.
So you said, "GW is not giving me a reason to buy or I should be saying NOT TO BUY other companies product." The truth is that they probably don't care, because their business is to sell their product, not to steal sales from their competitors. If you buy from the competition and them, great. If you buy only from them, better! But if losing you as a customer means gaining 5 new ones, then don't start holding your breath.
THAT is my point. And even if the sales of AoS dwindle down to equal or less then WHFB it doesn't serve to validate your demands, it only proves that AoS was not a sustainable product.
Maybe I'm misremembering but didnt SadPanda say something to the effect that its an entirely new kit and the rumors about a Sternguard upgrade sprue were bogus?
Is there any news whatsoever of the IG getting an update? The Cadians are starting to look a little dated now and (personal peeve) the plastic Leman Russ is still as awful as ever. Now a plastic Mars-Alpha Leman Russ or Macharius I could die for - oh well...
Warpig1815 wrote: Is there any news whatsoever of the IG getting an update? The Cadians are starting to look a little dated now and (personal peeve) the plastic Leman Russ is still as awful as ever. Now a plastic Mars-Alpha Leman Russ or Macharius I could die for - oh well...
Warpig1815 wrote: Is there any news whatsoever of the IG getting an update? The Cadians are starting to look a little dated now and (personal peeve) the plastic Leman Russ is still as awful as ever. Now a plastic Mars-Alpha Leman Russ or Macharius I could die for - oh well...
IG needs a gladius type decurion that gives them free dedicated transport.... then they will be tier 1 tournament codex again
pm713 wrote: From the perspective of GW what is the difference between person A and Person B.
Person A does not buy Alarielle because they play Death.
Person B does not buy Alarielle because they are protesting.
What is the difference?
To GW there isn't one, but really what does that matter?
GW isn't beholden to your whims anymore than they are to mine. The only difference between us is that I'm person A and you are person B, and GW will make whatever products they think are interesting or will reach their target audience regardless of what either of us want. It just so happens taht I'm enjoying a lot of their changes while you aren't.
Maybe, rather than asking how you can bully GW into doing what you want, you should instead start asking if you are still part of GW's target audience?
GW should be beholden to our whims. I am person C who is buying Warmahordes, X-Wing, and MtG for my kids now instead of my money going to GW. So yeah they should be going on our whims. GW is not giving me a reason to buy or I should be saying NOT TO BUY other companies product.
Either you don't understand my point or you dont understand how businesses operate. GW is no beholden to your whims, my whims, Dakkas whims, etc. Period. Full stop.
As long as GW meets or exceeds their targets for sales and growth then thats what matters to them. The entirety of Dakka and Warseer could never buy a GW product again and it wouldnt matter so long as they still hit their targets.
There's a ridiculous frame of mind which seems apparent in a large number of "critics" in GW threads where because they can't find reason to buy GW products it is somehow a problem.
The reality is that stagnant businesses are doomed to fail because even if you want to stay consistent with what made you successful in the past, the world around you wont stop changing for your benefit. And for every change you make trying to grow your customer base it is inevitable that you will lose some of you old customers along the way. What matters though is that the customers to you are gaining are either greater in number or sales than who you leave behind.
So you said, "GW is not giving me a reason to buy or I should be saying NOT TO BUY other companies product." The truth is that they probably don't care, because their business is to sell their product, not to steal sales from their competitors. If you buy from the competition and them, great. If you buy only from them, better! But if losing you as a customer means gaining 5 new ones, then don't start holding your breath.
THAT is my point. And even if the sales of AoS dwindle down to equal or less then WHFB it doesn't serve to validate your demands, it only proves that AoS was not a sustainable product.
Maybe I'm misremembering but didnt SadPanda say something to the effect that its an entirely new kit and the rumors about a Sternguard upgrade sprue were bogus?
This is probably the wrong place for this argument but I will bite. What Jack Flask has said is 100% right, GW had a decision, spend $50 and retain 1 customer or gamble and spend $100 and potentially gain 5 new customers, they also took the time to remove the issues with their IP such as the lack of expand-ability (I can't think of any new races that they could have released in WHFB), IP defensibility in court and accessibility (skirmish vs large battles, WHFB was prohibitive to all newcomers).
I am not saying that they made the correct decision or that they couldn't have done things differently but like people, businesses make mistakes and now they have a choice of giving up or working with what they have. It was a gamble but I think it will pay off in the end.
I think they learnt a large number of lessons with WHFB and story advancement in 40k will shake things up but I don't think they will go as far as WHFB which is good because while 40k needs a shake up it is not as dire as WHFB was. Plus, telling the same story over and over again is boring, characters never dying is boring (Game of Thrones showed us that) so move the story, kill the emperor and bring in new heroes (or old heroes returned) as well as new (or old) big bad guys. They need to maintain a good mix of nostalgia vs new blood, while its good to return all those old heroes/villians (aka primarches) from 30k they need to add new stuff that is unique to 40k.
JohnnyHell wrote: So many posts about business models, fluff and AoS that being off topic in this thread seems on topic... oh for some actual news when I click in...
The news and rumours section these days is a lavish production of "Waiting for Sad Panda"
Fezza213 wrote: Plus, telling the same story over and over again is boring, characters never dying is boring (Game of Thrones showed us that) so move the story, kill the emperor and bring in new heroes (or old heroes returned) as well as new (or old) big bad guys.
That sounds just awful. There's nothing wrong with the setting as it currently exists. Except Kaldor Draigo. feth that guy.
JohnnyHell wrote: So many posts about business models, fluff and AoS that being off topic in this thread seems on topic... oh for some actual news when I click in...
You do realize that GW posted a preview video for Codex: Adeptus Astartes Deathwatch, right?
pm713 wrote: From the perspective of GW what is the difference between person A and Person B.
Person A does not buy Alarielle because they play Death.
Person B does not buy Alarielle because they are protesting.
What is the difference?
To GW there isn't one, but really what does that matter?
GW isn't beholden to your whims anymore than they are to mine. The only difference between us is that I'm person A and you are person B, and GW will make whatever products they think are interesting or will reach their target audience regardless of what either of us want. It just so happens taht I'm enjoying a lot of their changes while you aren't.
Maybe, rather than asking how you can bully GW into doing what you want, you should instead start asking if you are still part of GW's target audience?
GW should be beholden to our whims. I am person C who is buying Warmahordes, X-Wing, and MtG for my kids now instead of my money going to GW. So yeah they should be going on our whims. GW is not giving me a reason to buy or I should be saying NOT TO BUY other companies product.
Either you don't understand my point or you dont understand how businesses operate. GW is no beholden to your whims, my whims, Dakkas whims, etc. Period. Full stop.
As long as GW meets or exceeds their targets for sales and growth then thats what matters to them. The entirety of Dakka and Warseer could never buy a GW product again and it wouldnt matter so long as they still hit their targets.
There's a ridiculous frame of mind which seems apparent in a large number of "critics" in GW threads where because they can't find reason to buy GW products it is somehow a problem.
The reality is that stagnant businesses are doomed to fail because even if you want to stay consistent with what made you successful in the past, the world around you wont stop changing for your benefit. And for every change you make trying to grow your customer base it is inevitable that you will lose some of you old customers along the way. What matters though is that the customers to you are gaining are either greater in number or sales than who you leave behind.
So you said, "GW is not giving me a reason to buy or I should be saying NOT TO BUY other companies product." The truth is that they probably don't care, because their business is to sell their product, not to steal sales from their competitors. If you buy from the competition and them, great. If you buy only from them, better! But if losing you as a customer means gaining 5 new ones, then don't start holding your breath.
THAT is my point. And even if the sales of AoS dwindle down to equal or less then WHFB it doesn't serve to validate your demands, it only proves that AoS was not a sustainable product.
Maybe I did misinterpret you point. But my point is, what is business 101? Make a product that your customers want. If I am going by what you say, then GW doesn't care about their customers or what they want. Is that really how a business should work? Thing is, if you don't give what your customer want how are you going to sell your product? How is GW going to meet or exceed their target and grow? Thing is, GW is not growing at all now are they? Are they still meeting or exceeding their targets? We don't know that. So maybe that part is true but they are not growing at all are they? While I know GW doesn't care about me personally, I wasn't saying they should care about me personally.
My point was my money was going to GW. Now because of GW practices, basically not giving me what I want, my GW money has gone else where where companies are giving me what I want. While a lot of what you said is true, some of it is false. While you are correct GW is not worried about stealing sales from other companies, that was not my points. My point is other companies are taking my money that was going to GW and is not now. There is a difference there. Nobody is stealing anything. Other companies are not stealing GW money at all. If anything at all, it is GW who is pushing us away. Not everyone but it does seem GW has pushed a lot of us away.
So my point is, GW needs to start giving us what we want so our money goes back to them instead of other companies. This way GW can meet or exceed their target and start growing.
TL;DR
Remember as I said, business 101, give the customer what they want. If you don't, people will not buy. If people are not buying you are not meeting or exceeding your targets and are not growing.
And what they told you is an individual customer doesn't matter, only if they meet sales goals.
So they are giving customers what they want, it just so happens you aren't a customer anymore.
Now, I wonder what they will do with ulthwe, maybe a new "core" option for their multiple formation detachment... Or perhaps a new detachment (mfd or otherwise) specific for the craftworld.
pm713 wrote: From the perspective of GW what is the difference between person A and Person B.
Person A does not buy Alarielle because they play Death.
Person B does not buy Alarielle because they are protesting.
What is the difference?
To GW there isn't one, but really what does that matter?
GW isn't beholden to your whims anymore than they are to mine. The only difference between us is that I'm person A and you are person B, and GW will make whatever products they think are interesting or will reach their target audience regardless of what either of us want. It just so happens taht I'm enjoying a lot of their changes while you aren't.
Maybe, rather than asking how you can bully GW into doing what you want, you should instead start asking if you are still part of GW's target audience?
GW should be beholden to our whims. I am person C who is buying Warmahordes, X-Wing, and MtG for my kids now instead of my money going to GW. So yeah they should be going on our whims. GW is not giving me a reason to buy or I should be saying NOT TO BUY other companies product.
Either you don't understand my point or you dont understand how businesses operate. GW is no beholden to your whims, my whims, Dakkas whims, etc. Period. Full stop.
As long as GW meets or exceeds their targets for sales and growth then thats what matters to them. The entirety of Dakka and Warseer could never buy a GW product again and it wouldnt matter so long as they still hit their targets.
There's a ridiculous frame of mind which seems apparent in a large number of "critics" in GW threads where because they can't find reason to buy GW products it is somehow a problem.
The reality is that stagnant businesses are doomed to fail because even if you want to stay consistent with what made you successful in the past, the world around you wont stop changing for your benefit. And for every change you make trying to grow your customer base it is inevitable that you will lose some of you old customers along the way. What matters though is that the customers to you are gaining are either greater in number or sales than who you leave behind.
So you said, "GW is not giving me a reason to buy or I should be saying NOT TO BUY other companies product." The truth is that they probably don't care, because their business is to sell their product, not to steal sales from their competitors. If you buy from the competition and them, great. If you buy only from them, better! But if losing you as a customer means gaining 5 new ones, then don't start holding your breath.
THAT is my point. And even if the sales of AoS dwindle down to equal or less then WHFB it doesn't serve to validate your demands, it only proves that AoS was not a sustainable product.
Maybe I did misinterpret you point. But my point is, what is business 101? Make a product that your customers want. If I am going by what you say, then GW doesn't care about their customers or what they want. Is that really how a business should work? Thing is, if you don't give what your customer want how are you going to sell your product? How is GW going to meet or exceed their target and grow? Thing is, GW is not growing at all now are they? Are they still meeting or exceeding their targets? We don't know that. So maybe that part is true but they are not growing at all are they? While I know GW doesn't care about me personally, I wasn't saying they should care about me personally.
No, business 101 is grow your business. If you can't grow your business then at least sustain your business while you start enacting ways that you can grow your business.
What you described is called consumer entitlement, and the crux of your issue is that GW is not providing you with what you want. Again, losing old customers because of changes they make is only bad if those changes dont end up bringing in more sales in the near future (or not-so-near future if they are working on a long term strategy, but for GW I dont see it).
My point was my money was going to GW. Now because of GW practices, basically not giving me what I want, my GW money has gone else where where companies are giving me what I want. While a lot of what you said is true, some of it is false.
Congrats? You do realize you are a single drop in the bucket of a multinational organization right?
While you are correct GW is not worried about stealing sales from other companies, that was not my points. My point is other companies are taking my money that was going to GW and is not now. There is a difference there. Nobody is stealing anything. Other companies are not stealing GW money at all. If anything at all, it is GW who is pushing us away. Not everyone but it does seem GW has pushed a lot of us away.
And why should GW care where you spend your money if they can have more customers spending more or the same than you did?
Every existing and potential customer has a cost. If the cost of keeping you business exceeded the benefit of doing so, why would you expect them to side with you?
It's the basic concept of weighing costs against benefits. If the products that made you patronize GW werent selling as what they predict these new products can, then congratulations you are no longer part of their target consumer group.
So my point is, GW needs to start giving us what we want so our money goes back to them instead of other companies. This way GW can meet or exceed their target and start growing.
TL;DR
Remember as I said, business 101, give the customer what they want. If you don't, people will not buy. If people are not buying you are not meeting or exceeding your targets and are not growing.
All you're demonstrating is a lack of understanding regarding actual business management concepts combined with the skewed perspective afforded by spending time in the echo chamber that is an internet forum.
Your entire argument is tantamount to a lactose intolerant person complaining to the owner of a grocery store that they replaced their soy milk with chocolate cow milk because 90% of the soy milk would sit until expiration while plain cow milk was continuously moving product.
Edit:
Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote: And what they told you is an individual customer doesn't matter, only if they meet sales goals.
So they are giving customers what they want, it just so happens you aren't a customer anymore.
Now, I wonder what they will do with ulthwe, maybe a new "core" option for their multiple formation detachment... Or perhaps a new detachment (mfd or otherwise) specific for the craftworld.
So exciting!
Exactly, much more concise than me.
As for the new Eldar stuff, I'm really hoping there will be some more redone kits other than just Eldrad, but given the lack of anything from Sad Panda and Atia, I'm prepared to be disappointed.
Did either say though that there would be new Ulthwe rules or a supplement or something? Because I was imagining this to just be a boxed set without actual new rules attached?
If only there was a thread, perhaps in General, that was specifically for discussing GW's financial performance and the merits of their various practices. Perhaps even one that had very recently been furnished with the yearly report for the last financial year!
Then we wouldn't have to pollute this Rumours thread with this pointless tosh.
Azreal13 wrote:If only there was a thread, perhaps in General, that was specifically for discussing GW's financial performance and the merits of their various practices. Perhaps even one that had very recently been furnished with the yearly report for the last financial year!
Then we wouldn't have to pollute this Rumours thread with this pointless tosh.
Fair point. I forgot what thread I was reading.
Nostromodamus wrote:Agreed. Despite multiple mod warnings this bollocks continues. I'm excited to see Deathwatch rumors, not pointless nerd bickering.
Oh heaven forbid you never go off topic. Also I thought Mods also said not to act like mods and do their job at one point as well. So you are just as bad as us. As a mod will remind you not to do this and hit the yellow triangle yourself.
I hope the Kill Team kit comes with some bits for BA/DA/SW to make them stand out a little. Some blood drops and Angels and Wolf tails would be nice. I really doubt they will include a lot of different shoulder pauldrons, probably just a big sheet of decals with a varied number of chapter emblems on it. I am looking forward to it. Probably will buy at least two.
With my track record, none of my models will be usable :(
I have more than 1,500 points of Deathwatch. I am overjoyed. They are my lucky army. Played more then 30 games with them, and they are undefeated. I just get really lucky with them. So far, I only bring them out "upon request". None of my friends like them, and are constantly trying to figure out how to beat them. Crazy, as they are nothing but Vanguard and Sternguard Veterans with 15 different Terminators and a few HQ choices. I just get VERY lucky with them. Never fail a 5+ invulnerable save. Never fail a morale test. I cannot claim this with any other army. It's crazy.
With my track record, none of my models will be usable :(
I have more than 1,500 points of Deathwatch. I am overjoyed. They are my lucky army. Played more then 30 games with them, and they are undefeated. I just get really lucky with them. So far, I only bring them out "upon request". None of my friends like them, and are constantly trying to figure out how to beat them. Crazy, as they are nothing but Vanguard and Sternguard Veterans with 15 different Terminators and a few HQ choices. I just get VERY lucky with them. Never fail a 5+ invulnerable save. Never fail a morale test. I cannot claim this with any other army. It's crazy.
I'm really pumped for the upcoming Deathwatch stuff, but it may be a little while before I can build up enough cash to get any of it beyond the board game marines (which I already have).
casvalremdeikun wrote: I hope the Kill Team kit comes with some bits for BA/DA/SW to make them stand out a little. Some blood drops and Angels and Wolf tails would be nice. I really doubt they will include a lot of different shoulder pauldrons, probably just a big sheet of decals with a varied number of chapter emblems on it. I am looking forward to it. Probably will buy at least two.
I hope they don't, personally. I don't want to see a bunch of BA/SW/DA/UM stuff in the Deathwatch kit, since those 4 already have separate upgrade sprues. Give more space to the chapters without easy access to plastic bits already, and some successors as well.
Fezza213 wrote: I think they learnt a large number of lessons with WHFB and story advancement in 40k will shake things up but I don't think they will go as far as WHFB which is good because while 40k needs a shake up it is not as dire as WHFB was. Plus, telling the same story over and over again is boring, characters never dying is boring (Game of Thrones showed us that) so move the story, kill the emperor and bring in new heroes (or old heroes returned) as well as new (or old) big bad guys. They need to maintain a good mix of nostalgia vs new blood, while its good to return all those old heroes/villians (aka primarches) from 30k they need to add new stuff that is unique to 40k.
That assumes 40k is meant to be story rather than setting from which to create your own stories...
Story driven from company isn't automatically godsend. Setting meanwhile gives players freedom to push the story where they want. Something which doesn't work with company driven story.
Fezza213 wrote: I think they learnt a large number of lessons with WHFB and story advancement in 40k will shake things up but I don't think they will go as far as WHFB which is good because while 40k needs a shake up it is not as dire as WHFB was. Plus, telling the same story over and over again is boring, characters never dying is boring (Game of Thrones showed us that) so move the story, kill the emperor and bring in new heroes (or old heroes returned) as well as new (or old) big bad guys. They need to maintain a good mix of nostalgia vs new blood, while its good to return all those old heroes/villians (aka primarches) from 30k they need to add new stuff that is unique to 40k.
That assumes 40k is meant to be story rather than setting from which to create your own stories...
Story driven from company isn't automatically godsend. Setting meanwhile gives players freedom to push the story where they want. Something which doesn't work with company driven story.
Yeah exactly, 40k was never a "story". It's a backdrop where players or GW craft their own stories within the current setting.
Fezza213 wrote: I think they learnt a large number of lessons with WHFB and story advancement in 40k will shake things up but I don't think they will go as far as WHFB which is good because while 40k needs a shake up it is not as dire as WHFB was. Plus, telling the same story over and over again is boring, characters never dying is boring (Game of Thrones showed us that) so move the story, kill the emperor and bring in new heroes (or old heroes returned) as well as new (or old) big bad guys. They need to maintain a good mix of nostalgia vs new blood, while its good to return all those old heroes/villians (aka primarches) from 30k they need to add new stuff that is unique to 40k.
That assumes 40k is meant to be story rather than setting from which to create your own stories...
Story driven from company isn't automatically godsend. Setting meanwhile gives players freedom to push the story where they want. Something which doesn't work with company driven story.
Yeah exactly, 40k was never a "story". It's a backdrop where players or GW craft their own stories within the current setting.
And that's what this is surely, GW advancing a story within the setting.
With my track record, none of my models will be usable :(
I have a Deathwatch army. I'm concerned with how they will butcher the existing DW fluff.
Actually, I'm at the point where I'm running out of armies that I have that don't have rules. Once they do Genestealer Cult and Lost & The Damned, GW will have caught up with me!
With my track record, none of my models will be usable :(
I have a Deathwatch army. I'm concerned with how they will butcher the existing DW fluff.
Actually, I'm at the point where I'm running out of armies that I have that don't have rules. Once they do Genestealer Cult and Lost & The Damned, GW will have caught up with me!
I do have a Deathwatch army, but am more optimistic. If they "butcher the existing fluff" well that is what Head-Canon is for.
The story going on in my head doesn't have to match up to the official fluff 100%.
Hell, half the time it doesn't match up with what is happening on the board, otherwise my BAMF Chapter Master equivalent has some kind of illicit cloning facility for the amount of times he has died horribly on the board.
My hope is for some sweet gubbins, a nice Artemis model, a rack of Shoulder Pads in every box and a fancy flyer thingy to run.
Vain wrote: ... a rack of Shoulder Pads in every box and a fancy flyer thingy to run.
I'd deem this a tremendous missed opportunity if such a thing did not exist. Maybe not a sprue of shoulder pads, but just GW using their excellent plastics technology to fill every single square millimetre of spare space with new pads for all sorts of Chapters (maybe put a sneaky Rainbow Warrior pad in there for nostalgia's sake).
Just don't be a 5-man Squad Box that somehow costs more than a 10-man Tactical Squad box.
With my track record, none of my models will be usable :(
I have a Deathwatch army. I'm concerned with how they will butcher the existing DW fluff.
Actually, I'm at the point where I'm running out of armies that I have that don't have rules. Once they do Genestealer Cult and Lost & The Damned, GW will have caught up with me!
Start some squats, you're safe till the end of days.
JohnnyHell wrote: So many posts about business models, fluff and AoS that being off topic in this thread seems on topic... oh for some actual news when I click in...
You do realize that GW posted a preview video for Codex: Adeptus Astartes Deathwatch, right?
Initially, no actually, due to the aforementioned walls of off-topic ranting. And when I did find the link amidst the noise it didn't change that the thread is mostly OTTOT ranting at the mo. I've hit the report button a few times, but people *really* need to self-police too. If mod warnings and multiple posters asking others to stop the OT chatter don't get through and they continue, it makes Dakka a sucky place to be and that makes me sad.
I'd deem this a tremendous missed opportunity if such a thing did not exist. Maybe not a sprue of shoulder pads, but just GW using their excellent plastics technology to fill every single square millimetre of spare space with new pads for all sorts of Chapters (maybe put a sneaky Rainbow Warrior pad in there for nostalgia's sake).
Just don't be a 5-man Squad Box that somehow costs more than a 10-man Tactical Squad box.
Probably didn't explain myself well. I just want more DW shoulder pads than there are marines in the box.
It is relatively easy to source and create Chapter pads (though I wouldnt say no to more of them) but consistent DW pads and awesome gubbins/weapons are my main desire for this box.
I could actually live with 5 blinged out marines Marines / 10+ DW pads / 10+ random Chapter pads / A bajillion cool weapons and gubbins.
The same amount of frames as a Tac Box, but instead of those extra legs, torsos and arms it is filled to brimming with =][= symbols to stick on vehicles and pods, xeno skulls and parts, extra helmets with auspex parts, extra elbow half sun doodads like on the art, bionic arms and bionic feet, well worn helmets and armour pieces with gouging and scoring on them to imply current battle, =][= purity seals, old school marks of helmets...I seem to have gotten myself all hot and bothered about the potential of this box and what it could mean for me.
Going to wait for the eBay deals on this one methinks. Definitely going to snap up that Deathwatch Captain and the upgrade frame! I hope they do some Deathwatch Overkill rules/scenarios too. That'd be nice!
Chikout wrote: So this turned up on tg. A new 40k boxed set called death Masque. Price is RM590 which is the Malaysian currency. No idea what that converts to.
Chikout wrote: So this turned up on tg. A new 40k boxed set called death Masque. Price is RM590 which is the Malaysian currency. No idea what that converts to.
Chikout wrote: So this turned up on tg. A new 40k boxed set called death Masque. Price is RM590 which is the Malaysian currency. No idea what that converts to.
590 Malaysian Ringgit is US$148
So about £112?
Given how GW like to hike and spike prices depending on their mood...
£100 box? That's kinda steep considering the last few 'Campaign' boxes....
It's closer to BaC scale. Another board game type game?
So that box if bought individually comes to over $350 £240. A $150 price tag would mean buying the harlequins and getting the rule book, the Deathwatch and Eldrad for free.
I think if there is ano upgrade sprue, rather than get a box of Veterans I will just get a Tactical Squad or two and some.upgrade sprues. When Captain Artemis hits eBay I will get him as well. I have several Sternguard and Vanguard kits I can poach bits from.
I was not looking forward to a combined box set. I had hoped they would have learned their lesson with the Shadow Force Solaq box that they can do the same thing and make it more marketable.
Would it be more reasonable to suspect it's 2 boxes instead?, one for Harlequins and one for Deathwatch. Given the impressive list of contents from the previous page having it as a single army £100 box would seem to make more sense, either that or the list was full of it.
Imateria wrote: Would it be more reasonable to suspect it's 2 boxes instead?, one for Harlequins and one for Deathwatch. Given the impressive list of contents from the previous page having it as a single army £100 box would seem to make more sense, either that or the list was full of it.
I would probably get on board if it was two separate boxes. I don't need Harlequins.
JohnnyHell wrote: "...with an exclusive formation for both forces" does suggest both in one box.
Yay... At any rate, I will just wait for Artemis to hut eBay and use more effective means than Sternguard to build my Deathwatch force. An Upgrade Sprue or two and a Tactical Squad will get the job done for a lot cheaper and look just as nice.
I am especially disinclined to get the boxed set given the fact that every boxed set character has been released separately now.
Actually, from the looks of it, Artemis might not even be exclusive to the boxed set, the copy of the Rules with Artemis on the cover is the exclusive part.
Lady Atia has all of this stuff on her website, so it is pretty well confirmed now.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Actually, from the looks of it, Artemis might not even be exclusive to the boxed set, the copy of the Rules with Artemis on the cover is the exclusive part.
Lady Atia has all of this stuff on her website, so it is pretty well confirmed now.
They've been really cagey about saying "Exclusive" when it comes to the characters in boxed sets. They tend towards making it clear that the models are "only available currently" in a boxed set, rather than "exclusive" to it. Seems silly but it lets their staff be able to point out to people that it's likely to be available later.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Actually, from the looks of it, Artemis might not even be exclusive to the boxed set, the copy of the Rules with Artemis on the cover is the exclusive part.
Lady Atia has all of this stuff on her website, so it is pretty well confirmed now.
They've been really cagey about saying "Exclusive" when it comes to the characters in boxed sets. They tend towards making it clear that the models are "only available currently" in a boxed set, rather than "exclusive" to it. Seems silly but it lets their staff be able to point out to people that it's likely to be available later.
True, but what I am saying is that Eldrad and Artemis might just be available separate right from the get go. And I am fine with that.
That list on contents sounds more like Deathstorm. 2 sets forces of models that don't sell well with new HQ models and a minirulebook with a new cover.
Eldrad and Artemis will probably be £16 each if bought individually.
Seriously even if the boxed set is £120 like the Knights, the value is insane. If you are interested in either faction and are at all familiar with eBay, there is no reason not to get it. You could sell the Eldar for half retail price and buy a start collecting box and a rhino with the proceeds.
Chikout wrote: Eldrad and Artemis will probably be £16 each if bought individually.
Seriously even if the boxed set is £120 like the Knights, the value is insane. If you are interested in either faction and are at all familiar with eBay, there is no reason not to get it. You could sell the Eldar for half retail price and buy a start collecting box and a rhino with the proceeds.
Imateria wrote: Would it be more reasonable to suspect it's 2 boxes instead?, one for Harlequins and one for Deathwatch. Given the impressive list of contents from the previous page having it as a single army £100 box would seem to make more sense, either that or the list was full of it.
You mean like the Raven Guard vs Tau sets, right? That makes sense actually. I wonder what Eldrad is doing with the Harlies, though...
Kirasu wrote: I won't be surprised if the Deathwatch are 50$ for 5 just like Sternguard.
I would be a bit surprised about that. I'm thinking more likely $40(same price as the Vanguard Veterans); Sternguard are supposedly their "best worst selling kit"--if a box with discounts includes them, it tends to do well but otherwise they tend to sit around on the shelves.
Tentative pricing, excluding the Deathwatch Veteran kit, is $129.75 for the Deathwatch portion alone. I lowballed Artemis at the $30 price bracket rather than $33. I did the same with the Deathwatch upgrade kit, there's similar kits available right now at $13.50 and I used their price point as the basis since it seems to be tied to the Vanguard Veterans. I would not be surprised to maybe see the upgrade kit as a box rather than a blister like the current ones and be $20 instead.
Tentative pricing for the Eldar portion is $217--I used the $30 price bracket for Eldrad as well.
No matter how the pricing for the Deathwatch portion turns out, unless the Deathwatch Veterans are an $87.25 kit, the Eldar have a biiig cost break for this set if they're wanting to add Harlequin.
That box deal sounds a bit too good to be true, but then, I would say that about quite a few of the boxes they've done in the last year or two so who knows? The stormcloud boxes have been the only damp squib for me in very recent memory.
Video wasn't one of their best - you normally see a bit more art for those teasers, that all looked like fairly thrown-together stuff. Doesn't give me a ton of hope for the codex, as that's where the art is usually cribbed from for the trailers, right?
angelofvengeance wrote: I'm going to go out on a limb here and say Eldrad on his own would be at least 18GBP
a 2 sprue charecter is probably same price as the dominus so 23
Eldrad is 1 sprue. From that photo earlier, you can see where bits have been snipped off the frame.
Negative. 2 sprues. If parts had been snipped off the frame, then you would have seen corresponding numbered spots that were empty.
Spoiler:
1 is the torso, 2 is the front of the legs, 3 is the part in the upper right corner, 4 is the back of the legs, 5 is the staff, 6 is the back of the torso/robes.
There's no head, there's no left arm/hand, there's no attachment point(seemingly) for the rest of the right arm holding the staff(it's just a hand attached to the staff).
In any regards, I don't think he'd be anywhere near the $36 USD price tag of the Techpriest Dominus. That is a huge infantry model, set on a 50mm base.
A normal Farseer is $20 USD and is one frame. A two frame model in the form of Eldrad? I could see $30 tops.
Video wasn't one of their best - you normally see a bit more art for those teasers, that all looked like fairly thrown-together stuff. Doesn't give me a ton of hope for the codex, as that's where the art is usually cribbed from for the trailers, right?
You normally see a bit more art for those teasers...but you also don't normally see teasers that are fully voiced with an attempt at animation like this one.
) and these are even close to the quality of the Skitarii infantry kits; well played 
Bring the Sisters the 
on, my Templars stand ready. The unfaithful shall seek no refuge in any corner of the Galaxy.
