I was going to say Plaguebearers, but then I thought about it. While Plaguebearers have a 5++, DR and the ability to -1 from enemy hit-rolls against the opponent if they have 20+ models, they can't replenish their numbers like Poxwalkers can. So they seem like a bit of a much of a muchness, especially as Plaguebearers are 2pts more. They seem to fill a similar roll, which is to be a distraction your opponent can't ignore, though perhaps the Poxwalkers could, in theory, be better at it, as once they reach the enemy lines, and there's enough of them, they could keep replenishing their numbers and be a really tough unit to get rid of and could tie up several shooty units your opponent would need fighting other things. On the flip side, Plaguebearers would most likely be much better at soaking damage at range, holding objectives and the like. So perhaps taking a mix of them for different jobs is better than taking one over the other.
I'm also interested to see the mathhammer smiths crack this question too, but that's my initial opinion.

There is one big question about plague bearer viability: are they paying for the plague swords? Chaos demon's price sheet does not list the price for plague swords. It is possible they should cost the same as for CSM, but other duplicate options (everything for demon princes) was reprinted. I'm assuming that the price is a total 8 for plague bearers, but if they must pay for the sword (and it costs three, same as for plague marines) they aren't as good.

As far as the math goes, at 8 plagues bearers are always tougher and more dangerous, even excluding plaguebearers 20+ buff and including poxwalkers 10+ buff. On the other hand, at 11 the reverse is true. Plaguebearers are barely as tough per point if they have over 20 models, slightly tougher if 20+ models and toughness 4 is helping, otherwise weaker. They are also always weaker in melee combat at 11 points, even if poxwalkers aren't getting the buff for 10+ and strength 4 is helping. Given my opinion that poxwalkers are overpriced, I'm assuming the 8 points is correct for plague bearers.

Also, we all are aware that returning poxwalkers to the field costs points, correct? In matched play at least. So it's not that useful imo.

SilverAlien wrote:
Also, we all are aware that returning poxwalkers to the field costs points, correct? In matched play at least. So it's not that useful imo.

Sorry, what? The poxwalkers acquired through killing other models in CC? That can't be right. How can you alot points for an indeterminate number of possible casualties?

nfe wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:
Also, we all are aware that returning poxwalkers to the field costs points, correct? In matched play at least. So it's not that useful imo.

Sorry, what? The poxwalkers acquired through killing other models in CC? That can't be right. How can you alot points for an indeterminate number of possible casualties?

you don't. they're the ONLY source of free units in 8th edition (although I suppose you could argue the effect is basicly a varient of ressurection protocals) which is proably why they're priced as high as they are

BrianDavion wrote:

nfe wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:
Also, we all are aware that returning poxwalkers to the field costs points, correct? In matched play at least. So it's not that useful imo.

Sorry, what? The poxwalkers acquired through killing other models in CC? That can't be right. How can you alot points for an indeterminate number of possible casualties?

you don't. they're the ONLY source of free units in 8th edition (although I suppose you could argue the effect is basicly a varient of ressurection protocals) which is proably why they're priced as high as they are

Wouldn't it work like AoS, where replenishing a unit's numbers doesn't cost points, it's only when you add to the unit's original number or summoning new units into the match when it costs points?

BrianDavion wrote:

nfe wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:
Also, we all are aware that returning poxwalkers to the field costs points, correct? In matched play at least. So it's not that useful imo.

Sorry, what? The poxwalkers acquired through killing other models in CC? That can't be right. How can you alot points for an indeterminate number of possible casualties?

you don't. they're the ONLY source of free units in 8th edition (although I suppose you could argue the effect is basicly a varient of ressurection protocals) which is proably why they're priced as high as they are

Not the only one as replenishing or adding to a unit does so as well.

Yeah. Adding models to a unit is free. The d6 models daemons can gain with their iccons if they roll a 1 in battleshock are free.

Creating a new unit from 0 cost points.

Oh, I thought it said models not units, well that ability is far more useful. Also answers my question about the demonic icons.

New DG image!

Looks like this guy from the upcoming MPP kit:


I love that there's a mutated bare-headed guy too!

Yeah, pumped for these multiparty kits

 Hive City Dweller wrote:


New DG image!

Looks like this guy from the upcoming MPP kit:


I love that there's a mutated bare-headed guy too!

So is this a weapon we don't have an option yet in the indexes? Looks like some kind of plague flail.

There is nothing equivalent to it for PM that I see. It'll likely be a variation on the plague weapons we have seen (knife, sword, and bell so far).

There is a good chance that the PMs will be very different in the DG codex, remember that we are a new faction, so we have no idea what is in store for PMs that are specific to the DG codex.

The current PMs are takeable for all chaos armies at the moment, our specific ones might be a lot better!

Good way for GW to sell more codices as well, if the PMs in a codex are better than the index...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Hive City Dweller's picture, is that another new termie up the top right?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also like the more hunched over poses that they are giving to some of the new multi part PMs, as if the bigger they get from the gifts, the harder it is to keep themselves upright

That looks like a Plague Marine without a helmet too to the right (our right) of the front guy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Rippy wrote:
There is a good chance that the PMs will be very different in the DG codex, remember that we are a new faction, so we have no idea what is in store for PMs that are specific to the DG codex.

The current PMs are takeable for all chaos armies at the moment, our specific ones might be a lot better!

Good way for GW to sell more codices as well, if the PMs in a codex are better than the index...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Hive City Dweller's picture, is that another new termie up the top right?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also like the more hunched over poses that they are giving to some of the new multi part PMs, as if the bigger they get from the gifts, the harder it is to keep themselves upright

Oh yeah, could be another termie. Could the top left (our left) guy be wielding our new Blight Launcher as well?

Remember, the current indexes only have rules for models that are available. You think the primaries captains and lieutenants will have zero options? I doubt it. We will see a lot more stuff once the faction specific books drop as well as the model lines.

Fingers crossed for a DG Havoc style unit. 4x plasma or blight launchers sounds like a ton of fun.

 Leth wrote:
Remember, the current indexes only have rules for models that are available. You think the primaries captains and lieutenants will have zero options? I doubt it. We will see a lot more stuff once the faction specific books drop as well as the model lines.

I get that, but I was also confused as we had options that didn't exist yet (the plague launcher). Which is weird they would give us that option in the index but not the rest of them.

 Swara wrote:

 Leth wrote:
Remember, the current indexes only have rules for models that are available. You think the primaries captains and lieutenants will have zero options? I doubt it. We will see a lot more stuff once the faction specific books drop as well as the model lines.

I get that, but I was also confused as we had options that didn't exist yet (the plague launcher). Which is weird they would give us that option in the index but not the rest of them.

Perhaps it's a sort of teaser to show there's more new coming for us

 Tiberius501 wrote:

 Swara wrote:

 Leth wrote:
Remember, the current indexes only have rules for models that are available. You think the primaries captains and lieutenants will have zero options? I doubt it. We will see a lot more stuff once the faction specific books drop as well as the model lines.

I get that, but I was also confused as we had options that didn't exist yet (the plague launcher). Which is weird they would give us that option in the index but not the rest of them.

Perhaps it's a sort of teaser to show there's more new coming for us

]]

I certainly hope so. I'd love to have even more DG specific weapons.
The plague launcher would also be a fun havoc weapon.

I'm hoping our terminators get/can take blight launchers as a basic weapon option, like tson terminators get upgrade combi bolters. That'd be a really shooty terminator squad. Havocs running with four would be neat as well. It's a solid versatile weapon, and assault really helps foot slogging units squeeze in a little more mobility

Point of interest: Have those Lascannon Heavy Weapons Teams taken into account that the PMs get an armour save against their Lascannon shots? 5+ armour save even, if they're in cover. And the PMs only get wounded on 3+. And that's if the Heavy Weapons Teams manage to roll their 4+ to hit. Somehow that doesn't sound so nerfed to me at all. Perhaps someone would like to mathhammer it out in full...?

Snugiraffe wrote:
Point of interest: Have those Lascannon Heavy Weapons Teams taken into account that the PMs get an armour save against their Lascannon shots? 5+ armour save even, if they're in cover. And the PMs only get wounded on 3+. And that's if the Heavy Weapons Teams manage to roll their 4+ to hit. Somehow that doesn't sound so nerfed to me at all. Perhaps someone would like to mathhammer it out in full...?

They inflict 1.4 wounds per turn, and with d6 damage the 5+ fnp barely touches the total (comes out to a bit over 1.32). So the heavy weapons team will take 3-4 rounds to kill them on average. An autocannon team (which is cheaper than a bare bones PM by two points) will be averaging around 1.6ish wounds, including fnp, putting them at roughly 3 turns to take a squad out (I'm unsure if using an autocannon on infantry qualifies as a bad idea though). Which doesn't even touch on small arms fire.

Honestly, the easiest way to describe why PM don't work is to compare them to noise marines. A noise marine with sonic blaster costs 20 points compared to 13 for a CSM. They are at least 1.5-3 times as effective offensively (as in, as good or better offensively for their points as taking more csm), without taking into account improved melee and the special ability. DG are barely 1.5 times tougher than normal csm, assuming toughness 5 is actually helping them, despite costing 21 points with an extremely marginal CC boost as the only other defining feature. Oh, and they slower than CSM, meaning they have an additional; trade off in addition to the point hike.

Most of the PM's real advantages have gone this edition, and they didn't get the point decrease that warranted. Plague knives aren't anywhere near as good, they lost their bolt pistols, they lost fearless (and morale is less of an issue in general for elite armies), and the buffs to heavy weapons they aren't even offering that much extra firepower over a kitted out 5 man CSM squad, or 10 if you want 2 heavy/special weapons.

Honestly, don't run DG or use PM till the codex drops. Havocs or normal CSM simply work better, giving you more value for your points in virtually every situation. Other cult troops (at least zerkers and noise marines, still need to look a tsons closer, hunch is they do best taken in full 20 man squads) do give you more value per point in areas, but less in others, making it more balanced. PM really don't have any advantages to speak of over the same number of points spent on CSM.

SilverAlien wrote:

Snugiraffe wrote:
Point of interest: Have those Lascannon Heavy Weapons Teams taken into account that the PMs get an armour save against their Lascannon shots? 5+ armour save even, if they're in cover. And the PMs only get wounded on 3+. And that's if the Heavy Weapons Teams manage to roll their 4+ to hit. Somehow that doesn't sound so nerfed to me at all. Perhaps someone would like to mathhammer it out in full...?

They inflict 1.4 wounds per turn, and with d6 damage the 5+ fnp barely touches the total (comes out to a bit over 1.32). So the heavy weapons team will take 3-4 rounds to kill them on average. An autocannon team (which is cheaper than a bare bones PM by two points) will be averaging around 1.6ish wounds, including fnp, putting them at roughly 3 turns to take a squad out (I'm unsure if using an autocannon on infantry qualifies as a bad idea though). Which doesn't even touch on small arms fire.

Honestly, the easiest way to describe why PM don't work is to compare them to noise marines. A noise marine with sonic blaster costs 20 points compared to 13 for a CSM. They are at least 1.5-3 times as effective offensively (as in, as good or better offensively for their points as taking more csm), without taking into account improved melee and the special ability. DG are barely 1.5 times tougher than normal csm, assuming toughness 5 is actually helping them, despite costing 21 points with an extremely marginal CC boost as the only other defining feature. Oh, and they slower than CSM, meaning they have an additional; trade off in addition to the point hike.

Most of the PM's real advantages have gone this edition, and they didn't get the point decrease that warranted. Plague knives aren't anywhere near as good, they lost their bolt pistols, they lost fearless (and morale is less of an issue in general for elite armies), and the buffs to heavy weapons they aren't even offering that much extra firepower over a kitted out 5 man CSM squad, or 10 if you want 2 heavy/special weapons.

Honestly, don't run DG or use PM till the codex drops. Havocs or normal CSM simply work better, giving you more value for your points in virtually every situation. Other cult troops (at least zerkers and noise marines, still need to look a tsons closer, hunch is they do best taken in full 20 man squads) do give you more value per point in areas, but less in others, making it more balanced. PM really don't have any advantages to speak of over the same number of points spent on CSM.

How many teams are you having fire and do 1.4 wounds?

 Leth wrote:
Yeah, pumped for these multiparty kits

A lot depends on the sprues for me.

Still, my plan with them is to do a squad of Possessed or two from them, mixing and matching with a Possessed box.

'Know No Fear' as the July hint in WD, so looks like we have to wait until at least August for the release, best case scenario.

Sigh.

 Marshal Loss wrote:
'Know No Fear' as the July hint in WD, so looks like we have to wait until at least August for the release, best case scenario.

Sigh.

I dunno, I find it odd GW would do a campaign where one of the featured factions is in a weird state of incomplete for much of it. a twin release would be ambitious for GW but if ANY armies would get it it'd be chaos and space marines

In regards to the Death Guard picture, I think the guy in the upper right is in Power Armor, look at the backpack.

Nonetheless, perhaps another Character?

I am thinking of putting Typhus, 5 x Terminators (after DG release), and 13 Pox Walkers in a spartan assault tank. Only problem is how much of an "eggs in one basket" list that is. Then have 2 or 3 squads of PMs in rhinos and the Plague Hulk of Nurgle, fleshing out the rest of the list with more pox walkers. This is the great thing about having multiple units in the same transport, as normally pox walkers would be a waste in a spartan, but may as well fill up the 25 seats! Plus this would really help them get in to melee, with how slow they are.

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
In regards to the Death Guard picture, I think the guy in the upper right is in Power Armor, look at the backpack.

Nonetheless, perhaps another Character?

Good spot, I think you are right. It might be the sergeant from the multi part kit, as he looks pretty pimped out in horns.

Another new one at the top back, and small details of even stranger looking ones behind him. I don't think these are characters, maybe plague marine chosen or something. Or standard plague marines will get a different datasheet in the codex to go with the mp kit. Most characters/hq tend to be either larger, or more flamboyant with flashy detail. Though I can just about make out a powerfist on the one to the left and the one on the right has a melee weapon in his left hand. The bare headed one has a plague sword.

With the new rumour of point changes coming in an update on release, do we think they'll be changing the cost of Plague Marines?

 Tiberius501 wrote:
With the new rumour of point changes coming in an update on release, do we think they'll be changing the cost of Plague Marines?

Highly possible, as Reecius has even stated that DG are one of the weakest off the bat.

There are a rumor about point changes already? That sounds cool.


But knowing GW I can see how they keep PM as they are but increasing the price because reasons haha

 Tiberius501 wrote:
With the new rumour of point changes coming in an update on release, do we think they'll be changing the cost of Plague Marines?

Heck, the FAQ may even turn around and give us a bunch of options that they took away for those of us who are Death Guard purists. I'd be might happy to see an FAQ adding Chaos Terminators, Havocs and Chosen back in to Death Guard - especially if it's looking at August now before we get a book or anything...

Where are you getting August from, DarkStarSabre? Or do you just mean it would be nice if they FAQ'd it if our codex is coming after July?

 Rippy wrote:
Where are you getting August from, DarkStarSabre? Or do you just mean it would be nice if they FAQ'd it if our codex is coming after July?

I think thats a consensus after the hint in WD '' they shall now not fear" that aims of a Primaris release for July.

Rippy, where do you get this balance at launch points information?

 Thargrim wrote:

Spoiler:

Another new one at the top back, and small details of even stranger looking ones behind him. I don't think these are characters, maybe plague marine chosen or something. Or standard plague marines will get a different datasheet in the codex to go with the mp kit. Most characters/hq tend to be either larger, or more flamboyant with flashy detail. Though I can just about make out a powerfist on the one to the left and the one on the right has a melee weapon in his left hand. The bare headed one has a plague sword.

The ones at the back left look like chosen to me, the one back center next to the blight bringer looks like another HQ/elite choice, or possibly an alternative blight bringer less crazy with the bells. Wouldn't mind getting something like an apothecary equivalent to boost our DR.

Kangaxx wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
Where are you getting August from, DarkStarSabre? Or do you just mean it would be nice if they FAQ'd it if our codex is coming after July?

I think thats a consensus after the hint in WD '' they shall now not fear" that aims of a Primaris release for July.

Rippy, where do you get this balance at launch points information?

^ PRetty much this.

The WD hint plus the fact they've willingly shown us a Primaris equivalent Dreadnought and Tank suggests we'll be seeing them first and DG late July-August at earliest.

Also, has anyone mentioned the bit in the back might be a new fortification? It looks like it has some detail to it, I get the impression of a plague cauldron sort of vibe. I'm on my phone though, so more detail might make it obviously not that.

The more I see the DG models the more they bother me.

They are modeled well, but the clean paint jobs and over the top details just remind me of a villain and his henchmen out of a comic book and not really a grim dark army. So over exaggerated to the point of silliness.

The Pox Walkers are looking like a comic relief unit more than diseased zombies.

I know a more dark and gritty paint job will help....but it just does not look like Nurgle to me... I am going to hold out with my FW upgrades as long as a I can lol.

This is my opinion of course, if you like them thats great.

Pox Walkers aren't zombies. I think the idea behind them is for being proto-plague bearers.

Just look at them. Many appear to be crysalids, and to being torn appart from the inside for a Plaguebearer that is coming from inside them. Thats why they have all those horns and spikes.

Plus, Nurgle has always been the comical Chaos God. Thats what so good about him. He is "funny" and "sympathetic" but in reality is a mass of putrid zombies and cultists. Like the Mordheim Nurgle Circus.

Also one cool thing to remember is that with Miasma of Pestilence anyone who is trying to overcharge plasma at us will overheat on a 1 or a 2.

 Leth wrote:
Also one cool thing to remember is that with Miasma of Pestilence anyone who is trying to overcharge plasma at us will overheat on a 1 or a 2.

pretty sure it says it overheats on a roll of a 1, not a result of 1. Which means only a naturally rolled 1 on a dice is an overheat, regardless of a modifier turning a 2 into a result of one. That's my understanding.

 Tiberius501 wrote:

 Leth wrote:
Also one cool thing to remember is that with Miasma of Pestilence anyone who is trying to overcharge plasma at us will overheat on a 1 or a 2.

pretty sure it says it overheats on a roll of a 1, not a result of 1. Which means only a naturally rolled 1 on a dice is an overheat, regardless of a modifier turning a 2 into a result of one. That's my understanding.

Hits/Wounds, Re-Rolls, and Modifiers

Hits/Wounds, Re-Rolls, and Modifiers

Because we have moved to a strict to hit or too wound system the new system of modifiers will take awhile for people to get used to. One of the biggest changes is that all modifiers are TO THE ROLLS. It used to be that a model might get -1 BS or set to a fixed BS. Now it says "Hit on a 4+, and X ability subtracts one from your roll".

In many situations it probably wont matter, where it does matter is when abilities trigger off of specific rolls or above a specific roll. If an enemy has an ability that triggers off of 6+ to hit and they get -1, they can never trigger that ability. Conversely if they get +1 to hit the ability triggers on a 5+. If an enemy ability triggers on exactly 6 and they get +1 to hit, it will now only trigger on a 5. It is very important now to know if an ability triggers on a specific roll or above/below a certain roll.

What is important to remember is that all re-rolls occur BEFORE modifiers. Where this gets really important is the interaction with many of the standard Aura Abilities and things, like overcharged plasma, that trigger on a specific roll.

Example - Plasmagun has -1 to hit against a flier. However he is within an aura that allows him to re-roll 1s. In this case he would ONLY be allowed to re-roll natural 1s as a result of the ability. However if he decided to overcharge any model that rolled a two would now die because after modifications it became a 1 and this is post re-rolls. Following the re-rolls any natural rolls of one become 0 and thus no longer cause an overheat.

Finally if those plasmaguns get a +1, they can never overheat while still getting to take advantage of their re-rolls.

All of this is important to keep in mind when thinking about how unit abilities stack and apply.

 Leth wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:

 Leth wrote:
Also one cool thing to remember is that with Miasma of Pestilence anyone who is trying to overcharge plasma at us will overheat on a 1 or a 2.

pretty sure it says it overheats on a roll of a 1, not a result of 1. Which means only a naturally rolled 1 on a dice is an overheat, regardless of a modifier turning a 2 into a result of one. That's my understanding.

Hits/Wounds, Re-Rolls, and Modifiers

Because we have moved to a strict to hit or too wound system the new system of modifiers will take awhile for people to get used to. One of the biggest changes is that all modifiers are TO THE ROLLS, not actually the stats themselves. So before it would make a model BS2 instead of BS3. Now it says "Hit on a 4+, subtract one from your roll".

In many situations it probably wont matter, however many abilities trigger off of specific rolls or above a specific roll. So for example if an enemy has an ability that triggers off of 6+ to hit if they get -1 they can never trigger that ability. Conversely if they get +1 to hit the ability triggers on a 5+.

What is important to remember is that all re-rolls occur BEFORE modifiers. Where this gets really important is that many Aura Abilities and overcharged plasma trigger on a roll of 1. Where this overlaps is when someone has both a negative to hit as well as a re-roll or ability triggered on a specific roll

Example - Plasmagun has -1 to hit against a flier. However he is within an aura that allows him to re-roll 1s. In this case he would ONLY be allowed to re-roll natural 1s as a result of the ability. However if he decided to overcharge any model that rolled a two would now die because after modifications it became a 1 and this is post re-rolls. However following the re-rolls any natural rolls of one become 0 and thus no longer cause an overheat.

Something to keep in mind when thinking about overcharging plasma and selecting targets as well as using things like smoke launchers.

Actually it says "on a hit roll of 1" So when there is a -1 modifier it would only trigger on a roll of a two. However, because of the way that re-rolls occur BEFORE modifiers it means that even if they are in a re-roll 1s aura any model that rolls a two will not be able to avoid death.

I have been schooled, and I am happy for it. Plaguecasters are going to be amazingly handy

Kangaxx wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
Where are you getting August from, DarkStarSabre? Or do you just mean it would be nice if they FAQ'd it if our codex is coming after July?

I think thats a consensus after the hint in WD '' they shall now not fear" that aims of a Primaris release for July.

Rippy, where do you get this balance at launch points information?

Okay thanks for that.

The balance at launch comes from another thread here. The rumor doesn't have much basis though.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/728560.page

Sorry if this has been answered but if you get the starter for the DG will the DG booklet it contains give you points for the included force? Or do you still have to get the Chaos Index for the points if you stay completely with starter box stuff?

Thanks for clarification.

 privateer4hire wrote:
Sorry if this has been answered but if you get the starter for the DG will the DG booklet it contains give you points for the included force? Or do you still have to get the Chaos Index for the points if you stay completely with starter box stuff?

Thanks for clarification.

I'm pretty sure you get the rules for all the models included in the box, don't think anything else is included.

Sorry to be dense but does that mean you don't get the points values for the minis and wargear?

We already have seen that you get the points for all of the potential equipment and wargear for the starter models in the dark imperium set.

 privateer4hire wrote:
Sorry to be dense but does that mean you don't get the points values for the minis and wargear?

You get both points and power levels for all the units in the box, primaris and death guard. Can confirm.

Thanks to you both. I've mainly been watching batreps of the non-starter forces.

 privateer4hire wrote:
Thanks to you both. I've mainly been watching batreps of the non-starter forces.

Without going into too much detail - the points values in the boxed set and the ones in the indexes appear to be different, so I guess be wary of that little gotcha?

 Jambles wrote:

 privateer4hire wrote:
Thanks to you both. I've mainly been watching batreps of the non-starter forces.

Without going into too much detail - the points values in the boxed set and the ones in the indexes appear to be different, so I guess be wary of that little gotcha?

Would you be able to mention if the points values are generally lower or higher in the boxed set?

 Tiberius501 wrote:

 Jambles wrote:

 privateer4hire wrote:
Thanks to you both. I've mainly been watching batreps of the non-starter forces.

Without going into too much detail - the points values in the boxed set and the ones in the indexes appear to be different, so I guess be wary of that little gotcha?

Would you be able to mention if the points values are generally lower or higher in the boxed set?

Boxset points are higher for the Death Guard for some stupid reason

 plagueknight wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:

 Jambles wrote:

 privateer4hire wrote:
Thanks to you both. I've mainly been watching batreps of the non-starter forces.

Without going into too much detail - the points values in the boxed set and the ones in the indexes appear to be different, so I guess be wary of that little gotcha?

Would you be able to mention if the points values are generally lower or higher in the boxed set?

Boxset points are higher for the Death Guard for some stupid reason

Bloat drone is 99pts without wargear in the chaos index whilst in the boxset point sheet it is 143pts so by the time you add up all the wargear it has it will be 206pts compared to the 158pts it would be be using the chaos index

 plagueknight wrote:
Bloat drone is 99pts without wargear in the chaos index whilst in the boxset point sheet it is 143pts so by the time you add up all the wargear it has it will be 206pts compared to the 158pts it would be be using the chaos index

Is that definately without Wargear already added in the box set book?

Primaris Marines points in the boxset are cheaper than in the index, but Deathguard is at the inverse... so in the end, the difference in points between the starter set and the indexs actually benefits Deathguard!

I sure hope they smooth out the points stuff quickly, it's a bad sign to have so many inconsistencies the day 8th edition drops. Having to print out faqs and stuff is already bloating things with book keeping cause now i'm gonna have to run around with printed sheets, the books, etc and then later on the codex too. However in a game where things change constantly things will never be balanced. That's why I like Blood Bowl, it embraces the imbalances and maybe some factions should be harder to play than others.

Hopefully they had enough time to edit the points costs and balancing into the actual DG codex. If the DG codex was already at the printers and is sitting waiting then I guess we'll be getting a faq for that too.

Actually when they release the Codex you aren't gonna need the Index or anything more. Everything that you need will be on the codex. (Unless you are using a army with mixed allies of diferent factions)

And hopefully they'll do something similar to what they did with Blades of Khorne and fix things in the codex itself (including adjusting points, re-writing Abilities to be more clear, giving weaker units smaller buffs, etc).

So thinking about death guard, my tentative plan is grab the dark imperium box, sell off the primaris marines to basically get the death guard for free (since I was planning on getting the main book anyway). Just have a few questions:

How good are the deathguard, I have a soft spot for grotesque, but if they blow I'll end never playing them.

What start collecting box would go best with them, I was thinking daemons of nurgle to go along with a chaos models I have from 7th ed (a few hell brutes, a chaos land raider, Typhus, a gaggle of cultist, chaos terminators, and a defiler in need of some love).

 Grimgold wrote:
So thinking about death guard, my tentative plan is grab the dark imperium box, sell off the primaris marines to basically get the death guard for free (since I was planning on getting the main book anyway). Just have a few questions:

How good are the deathguard, I have a soft spot for grotesque, but if they blow I'll end never playing them.

What start collecting box would go best with them, I was thinking daemons of nurgle to go along with a chaos models I have from 7th ed (a few hell brutes, a chaos land raider, Typhus, a gaggle of cultist, chaos terminators, and a defiler in need of some love).

We don't currently know yet if Death Guard are good, as our whole roster hasn't been anounced and we've been allowed only a small selection from the Chaos Index. Currently we're the weakest army on the table, according to one of the play testers, but we're supposedly going to be made competitive with the coming codex and units after the Dark Imperium launch set

My basic plan is to get two Death Guard halves of the starter, a Rhino and Predator and call it a day until the new stuff hits. Not even gonna bother with an Index as I have no plans for any other Chaos army, and the DG codex will probably change what was in the index anyways.

Here's hoping we get those new units and codex soon. I'm crossing my fingers for a late July release, as not releasing them on the 7th month of the year would be a wasted opportunity, thematically.

CaptainSomas wrote:
My basic plan is to get two Death Guard halves of the starter, a Rhino and Predator and call it a day until the new stuff hits. Not even gonna bother with an Index as I have no plans for any other Chaos army, and the DG codex will probably change what was in the index anyways.

Here's hoping we get those new units and codex soon. I'm crossing my fingers for a late July release, as not releasing them on the 7th month of the year would be a wasted opportunity, thematically.

I would love for them to at least announce some units we'll be getting, like they did for Primaris players. I want to know! *flails arms*

A July release would be perfect, as it's both the 7th month and the month of my bday Also end of financial year so a big sum of money to chuck at them will come in around the same time

Less than 5 hours until I have the new DG from starter set in my hands SQUEEE!

 Rippy wrote:
Less than 5 hours until I have the new DG from starter set in my hands SQUEEE!

Lucky enough to be getting a midnight launch? I still gotta wait until 11am *weeps*

 Tiberius501 wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
Less than 5 hours until I have the new DG from starter set in my hands SQUEEE!

Lucky enough to be getting a midnight launch? I still gotta wait until 11am *weeps*

Yes, super lucky
The dude I am buying the DG half off invited me to come and collect tonight as he purchases it.

 Rippy wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
Less than 5 hours until I have the new DG from starter set in my hands SQUEEE!

Lucky enough to be getting a midnight launch? I still gotta wait until 11am *weeps*

Yes, super lucky
The dude I am buying the DG half off invited me to come and collect tonight as he purchases it.

I'm super jelly haha

Welp, 24 hours and I have my initial purchase lot - Index Chaos, the rulebook and DG half of DI and some undercoat.

No need for the FW Index just yet as I realised I actually don't field any of the units listed in it (haha!).

My boxset is already here.

Read through the DG "book". It mentions 3 other kinds of Nurgle sorcerers, as well as a whole load of different DG warbands - but those have been leaked before. Interestingly, the apostles of contagion are the only ones that have been mentioned in the fluff before (if I recall correctly). Wonder what happened to Lords of Decay, the the purge, the cleaved and so on.
I could imagine those three other sorcerer types as an upgrade in the future - simply because they didn't translate their names, just like with other actual unit names. Death shroud has been translated though, so probably no models for those then :(.

I've got it lads and ladies!
They are beautiful.

 Rippy wrote:
I've got it lads and ladies!
They are beautiful.

SHARE SHARE!!! I have to wait two more days before I can get mine.....

I'm waiting until Saturday morning, cause that is when I'm meeting the guy who I'm getting his DG half. Bleh. At least I have FF14 and f13 the game to keep me busy. XD

 Leth wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
I've got it lads and ladies!
They are beautiful.

SHARE SHARE!!! I have to wait two more days before I can get mine.....

Less scrupulous store owners have had had the sprues up for sale on ebay for a while, if you want to see them you could just search for deathguard.

Can anyone put the new DG next to the FW DG to see how they look next to each other?

 Leth wrote:
Can anyone put the new DG next to the FW DG to see how they look next to each other?

There was a picture of this somewhere in that 500+ page rumor thread i think. Or maybe in this one already. I'm not positive tbh.

 Leth wrote:
Can anyone put the new DG next to the FW DG to see how they look next to each other?

I will be building some later on once my daughter is in bed for her bap

If there isn't already one up, I will post some side by sides with PMs and Typhus with Lord.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Leth wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
I've got it lads and ladies!
They are beautiful.

SHARE SHARE!!! I have to wait two more days before I can get mine.....

Sorry, I fell asleep :(


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Plague Hulk of Nurgle has no <Legion> key word :(
Looks like he will be a -1 CP formation take once the DG codex is out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also Chaos Spartan is looking solid.

Necrosius the Undying has THE TAINTED keyword, which is odd since he actually belongs to the Apostles of Contagion.

Also, he can't buff pure DEATH GUARD units, but instead only Poxwalkers and THE TAINTED units.

Hmmmmmm....

 Mister Feral wrote:
Necrosius the Undying has THE TAINTED keyword, which is odd since he actually belongs to the Apostles of Contagion.

Also, he can't buff pure DEATH GUARD units, but instead only Poxwalkers and THE TAINTED units.

Hmmmmmm....

Interesting, seeing as the flagship Death Guard dudes are called the Tainted Sons

Made all the more bizarre by the fact that Necrosius was not the leader of the Tainted, he was the leader of the Apostles of Contagion. I think whoever did the rules forgot to read the books in which Necrosius actually appeared. Strange times, FW.

Hopefully an FAQ appears at some point letting us take some of the units from this book in the actual DG list, once our codex hits. I'd like to take Greater Blight Drones.

It'd be interesting to see a Typhus/Necrosius tagteam army where there are massive unstoppable poxwalker hordes buffed by both

 Tiberius501 wrote:

 Mister Feral wrote:
Necrosius the Undying has THE TAINTED keyword, which is odd since he actually belongs to the Apostles of Contagion.

Also, he can't buff pure DEATH GUARD units, but instead only Poxwalkers and THE TAINTED units.

Hmmmmmm....

Interesting, seeing as the flagship Death Guard dudes are called the Tainted Sons

Do you have a source for that by any chance?

Judging by me squinting at the Dark Imperium pictures on the GW store, I can see the Apostles of Contagion have their colour scheme shown, so it doesn't make sense!

Charax wrote:
It'd be interesting to see a Typhus/Necrosius tagteam army where there are massive unstoppable poxwalker hordes buffed by both

Which is super funny, because in the fluff, they hate each other

"If it makes these Poxwalkers even better, than dammit we'll have to work together!"

But.. necrosius still uses contagion powers , which effect Death Guard. Sigh..


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And the alpha legion guy gets to be both his legion and warband, but the khorne and Nurgle ones dont. Pfah

Necrosius buffs Poxwalker and THE TAINTED within 6", but can only buff DEATH GUARD through one of the Contagion powers?

Hmmmmmmmmm.

FW has made some strange choices with how they've done these characters for war bands that have split off from their original Legion.

Necrosius has THE TAINTED and DEATH GUARD, yet Arkos the Faithless is forced to choose between THE FAITHLESS and ALPHA LEGION. Slightly off-topic, but whyyy?

edit - Zhufor has SKULLTAKERS but doesn't have WORLD EATERS.

 Mister Feral wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:

 Mister Feral wrote:
Necrosius the Undying has THE TAINTED keyword, which is odd since he actually belongs to the Apostles of Contagion.

Also, he can't buff pure DEATH GUARD units, but instead only Poxwalkers and THE TAINTED units.

Hmmmmmm....

Interesting, seeing as the flagship Death Guard dudes are called the Tainted Sons

Do you have a source for that by any chance?

Judging by me squinting at the Dark Imperium pictures on the GW store, I can see the Apostles of Contagion have their colour scheme shown, so it doesn't make sense!

They're in the Death Guard mini-codex, and are the olive coloured ones who're in all their art with a named Lord of Contagion, Lord Gulgoth the Aflictor

 Rippy wrote:

 Leth wrote:
Can anyone put the new DG next to the FW DG to see how they look next to each other?

I will be building some later on once my daughter is in bed for her bap

If there isn't already one up, I will post some side by sides with PMs and Typhus with Lord.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Leth wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
I've got it lads and ladies!
They are beautiful.

SHARE SHARE!!! I have to wait two more days before I can get mine.....

Sorry, I fell asleep :(


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Plague Hulk of Nurgle has no <Legion> key word :(
Looks like he will be a -1 CP formation take once the DG codex is out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also Chaos Spartan is looking solid.

Can you not just have them all "connect" via the Nurgle keyword?


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Does anyone have t he rules for the greater Bloat drone? I have 5 and I 'm getting antsy to see how they will fair.

 Rippy wrote:
Plague Hulk of Nurgle has no <Legion> key word :(
Looks like he will be a -1 CP formation take once the DG codex is out..

Is it not a LoW choice? You don't take a cp penalty for those.

It's all here somewhere
http://boards.4chan.org/tg/thread/53845360

SilverAlien wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
Plague Hulk of Nurgle has no <Legion> key word :(
Looks like he will be a -1 CP formation take once the DG codex is out..

Is it not a LoW choice? You don't take a cp penalty for those.

Nope, Heavy Support! You can take it alongside DEATH GUARD units in the same detachment, as long as you declare the faction to be either CHAOS or NURGLE.

Same thing for Greater Blight Drones, although they are obviously Fast Attack.

The Greater Blight Drone and many of the Hellforged vehicles have the <LEGION> keyword, but you could argue either way if you can choose DEATH GUARD for that or not - The Death Guard list specifies that you can only pick from the "Heretic Astartes units" referenced in that (overly restrictive) list. One could interpret the wording of "Heretic Astartes units" as just the data slates printed in the Chaos Marine list in Index Chaos and not necessarily all HERETIC ASTARTES units?

New high-res image of Mortarion/DG battle scene from WD.

Look at all the Nurgley bis!

I can't wait for Mortarion's model, looking at that high res image! I am LOVING the figures from the DI box set, just built them all today and got my paints ready for tomorrow. I. Need. Mortarion. Now. Plez. GW... plez.... now... like today... last second announcement that he's out... GW.... plez

Pleasantly surprised with the DI figures. Pleased that some of the heads are seperate, bloody amazed at how many random fine details there are overall - the poxwalkers have SO MANY FINE DETAILS. Like, some hobbit level tiny detail on them.

Chosen Conversions are feasible. Just have to figure out what I want in my SWA killteam as well

Looks like Scabby and the Greater bloat drones will be fairly usable. I'm glad - but still trying to see what the rules will be with the plague toads.

The toads can fly.
In not sure why

Captyn_Bob wrote:
The toads can fly.
In not sure why

BOING! They're super hoppy.

 Swara wrote:

Does anyone have t he rules for the greater Bloat drone? I have 5 and I 'm getting antsy to see how they will fair.

They're pretty damn good
Fast Attack

BS3+ T7 W12

5++ from Daemon Engine
Regenerates a wound each turn

3 weapons:
Bile Maw - Pistol D3, S8 AP -2 D3 Damage reroll 1s to wound
Blightreaper Cannon - Heavy 4 S7 AP -1 2 damage, AP increased to -3 on a to-hit roll of 6
Plague Probe CCW

11 Power
200pts after weapons (Daamn!)

Cant be taken in swarms anymore so you'll have to get a big detachment to fit your 5 (I have 3 + 3 Bloat Drones, I'm gonna need a detachment just for Drones!)

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
The toads can fly.
In not sure why

BOING! They're super hoppy.

A Plague Toad jumping so high he just crash agains't an Airplane like a deer and both explode in the air. Beautifull.

 Swara wrote:


Can you not just have them all "connect" via the Nurgle keyword?

You can, I am hoping to take a full "Death Guard" army once the codex drops though, and mitigate the loss of benefits.
Can't do that with the Plague Hulk

If I had to guess The Tainted is something you can choose for your legion Keyword. So right now he has The tainted legion keyword and the Death Guard legion key word.

So you can choose to make a tainted legion and have him buff them. However it basically prevents you from stacking DG buffs from him on units.

I am 100 percent making a Tally man demon engine army once Im totally sure that they do indeed count.

Looks like death guard plague marines can be taken as trooops in detachments with any other Chaos units. Detachments only require one of the same faction key words and since there are all Chaos, seems like all Chaos models can be fielded together in one detachment. You all agree?

How is everyone finding their armies are performing on the table?

I played a 50 power level game, Lord of Contagion, Blight bringer, x3 squads of 7 plague marines and a bloat drone vs. the Primaris starter set.

Plaguemarines are definitely easier to kill IMO, but still can withstand decent amount of small arms fire. Hell blasters put a hurt on me though. Losing assault/defensive grenades benefits also hurts. Regular plague marines just don't do much against primaris in close combat without some lucky rolls. Power fists seem like a necessity on Champs IMO. Supercharging plasma screwed me every time

I won the mission, but only by killing the Primaris captain. I was on the losing side in terms of casualties, although it was fairly close.

Had a lot of fun with the new rules, but really looking forward to a codex, because we need it. Havocs are sorely missed for me. Bloat drones are way cooler than I expected though!

 sennacherib wrote:
Looks like death guard plague marines can be taken as trooops in detachments with any other Chaos units. Detachments only require one of the same faction key words and since there are all Chaos, seems like all Chaos models can be fielded together in one detachment. You all agree?

This is true. For the time being there is no real impact - the impact will hit when we see the first Codexes where the equivalent armywide rules/benefits apply to detachments with more restricted keywords - we have no idea how powerful these may be.

Thanks. That's what I thought.

 Mister Feral wrote:
Necrosius the Undying has THE TAINTED keyword, which is odd since he actually belongs to the Apostles of Contagion.

Also, he can't buff pure DEATH GUARD units, but instead only Poxwalkers and THE TAINTED units.

Hmmmmmm....

Maybe Tainted is a warband keyword within the Death Guard force after all for all purposes Death Guard are their own faction now so it could be a chapter / warband like how in the blood angels forces you can make them one of the successors like flesh tearers etc

Though Manon has the Tainted keyword as well but not Death Guard so it's pretty odd

Don't know if anyone else mentioned it, but in the main rulebook there is a mention of Pestigors on page 161.

The "Final Assault Upon Cadia":

Plague Armies
Slogoth Poxbelly Exalted Greater Daemon
Drub'sla Plaguehost 7 Legions
Three-Eyed Tolltakers 7 Legions
Blightwalkers 7 Legions
Nurgling Tide Uncountable
The Tainted 7 Companies
The Horned Pestigor Legion
The Risen Plague Zombies
Ogryn Brutepox 3 Companies
The Stigmatus Convent Entire Cult
The Viscous Entire Cult

There's also a cool mention for "The Decadent Horde" of Slaanesh of something called the "Tentacled Behemoth", a Warp Monster.

 plagueknight wrote:

 Mister Feral wrote:
Necrosius the Undying has THE TAINTED keyword, which is odd since he actually belongs to the Apostles of Contagion.

Also, he can't buff pure DEATH GUARD units, but instead only Poxwalkers and THE TAINTED units.

Hmmmmmm....

Maybe Tainted is a warband keyword within the Death Guard force after all for all purposes Death Guard are their own faction now so it could be a chapter / warband like how in the blood angels forces you can make them one of the successors like flesh tearers etc

Though Manon has the Tainted keyword as well but not Death Guard so it's pretty odd

Iirc 'The Tainted' were the combined Nurgle Renegade forces during the Siege of Vraks. We really have to see what the FW AM Index does for Renegades to figure out properly...

 Leth wrote:
If I had to guess The Tainted is something you can choose for your legion Keyword. So right now he has The tainted legion keyword and the Death Guard legion key word.

So you can choose to make a tainted legion and have him buff them. However it basically prevents you from stacking DG buffs from him on units.

I don't think they'd let him have both "The Tainted" and "Death Guard" as Legion-equivalent keywords...

I can however see "The Tainted" potentially being a keyword tied to Traitor Guard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 plagueknight wrote:

 Mister Feral wrote:
Necrosius the Undying has THE TAINTED keyword, which is odd since he actually belongs to the Apostles of Contagion.

Also, he can't buff pure DEATH GUARD units, but instead only Poxwalkers and THE TAINTED units.

Hmmmmmm....

Maybe Tainted is a warband keyword within the Death Guard force after all for all purposes Death Guard are their own faction now so it could be a chapter / warband like how in the blood angels forces you can make them one of the successors like flesh tearers etc

Though Manon has the Tainted keyword as well but not Death Guard so it's pretty odd

Iirc 'The Tainted' were the combined Nurgle Renegade forces during the Siege of Vraks. We really have to see what the FW AM Index does for Renegades to figure out properly...

So, I looked it up in Vraks book 3.

The Tainted are a "large Death Guard sub-faction. Now connected with the daemon-prince Mamon".
Necrosius himself is part of the "Apostles of Contagion", a group that "bend knee to no master save Father Nurgle" and they have a rivalry with Typhus.

There isn't a whole lot of stuff in there from a brief onceover.

I have a feeling that is all about to be retconned Kanluwen, and having all Death Guard listening to the call of Mortarion (if the index is anything to go by)

 Rippy wrote:
I have a feeling that is all about to be retconned Kanluwen, and having all Death Guard listening to the call of Mortarion (if the index is anything to go by)

In dark imperium Typhus basically tells Mortarion to go F-#$ himself so I doubt that.

 Leth wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
I have a feeling that is all about to be retconned Kanluwen, and having all Death Guard listening to the call of Mortarion (if the index is anything to go by)

In dark imperium Typhus basically tells Mortarion to go F-#$ himself so I doubt that.

Indeed.

 Leth wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
I have a feeling that is all about to be retconned Kanluwen, and having all Death Guard listening to the call of Mortarion (if the index is anything to go by)

In dark imperium Typhus basically tells Mortarion to go F-#$ himself so I doubt that.

But they are still pretty much working together, yes? (I haven't read it yet)
If so, that is already super retconned from before.

 Rippy wrote:

 Leth wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
I have a feeling that is all about to be retconned Kanluwen, and having all Death Guard listening to the call of Mortarion (if the index is anything to go by)

In dark imperium Typhus basically tells Mortarion to go F-#$ himself so I doubt that.

But they are still pretty much working together, yes? (I haven't read it yet)
If so, that is already super retconned from before.

Not really?

The Tainted were more just doing their own thing.

Typhus split from Morty a while ago (millenia?). This s why he is called Typhus the Traveler. While Morty took some time off after the Heresy, Typhus started his Plague Crusade.

Most if not all of the Traitor Legion First Captains have fallen out with their respective Primarchs. The big 4 most definitely.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Rippy wrote:

 Leth wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
I have a feeling that is all about to be retconned Kanluwen, and having all Death Guard listening to the call of Mortarion (if the index is anything to go by)

In dark imperium Typhus basically tells Mortarion to go F-#$ himself so I doubt that.

But they are still pretty much working together, yes? (I haven't read it yet)
If so, that is already super retconned from before.

Not really?

The Tainted were more just doing their own thing.

Sorry I fail to see what the tainted has to do with Typhus and Mortarion's feud? Or is this another retcon?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Typhus split from Morty a while ago (millenia?). This s why he is called Typhus the Traveler. While Morty took some time off after the Heresy, Typhus started his Plague Crusade.

Most if not all of the Traitor Legion First Captains have fallen out with their respective Primarchs. The big 4 most definitely.

I get that, but the chaos index implies they are working together again, even if begrudgingly.
I am interested to know which fluff is correct:
1) the index was wrong, Typhus and Mortarion still oppose each other
2) the index was right and Typhus and Mortarion will work alongside each other (liking each other isn't a requirement for this)

They probably Allied together through Keyword <Nurgle>!

I definitely want to check out Dark Imperium now, I love all fluff regarding Morty, Typhus and the Legion.

I know that Typhus doesn't respect Mortarion, but I'm curious if Mortarion resents Typhus for being a psyker and betraying them to Nurgle in the first place.

Mortarian told Typhus to follow his plan, Typhus told him to go F himself and he was going to do his own thing.

So yeah, not quite working together.

 Leth wrote:
Mortarian told Typhus to follow his plan, Typhus told him to go F himself and he was going to do his own thing.

So yeah, not quite working together.

Typhus and Morty are in Ultramar together because NURGLE wants to conquer Ultramar

 Leth wrote:
Mortarian told Typhus to follow his plan, Typhus told him to go F himself and he was going to do his own thing.

So yeah, not quite working together.

This is rather hilariously a common pattern for the Legion specific SCs....

Typhus is basically a rogue element.
Ahriman is a rogue element.
Kharn is a rogue element.
Lucius is a rogue element.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
They probably Allied together through Keyword <Nurgle>!

I definitely want to check out Dark Imperium now, I love all fluff regarding Morty, Typhus and the Legion.

I know that Typhus doesn't respect Mortarion, but I'm curious if Mortarion resents Typhus for being a psyker and betraying them to Nurgle in the first place.

I hope this is the case and it stays that way, it's much more interesting as a dynamic between the two characters. Typhus is one of my favorite chaos characters I do hope he gets a revamped model. With the destroyer hive vents on his back and all.

So, I've been looking at those teaser pictures released by GW and I have some theories on what they have.

So the terminator. I am pretty certain that he's holding a Plaguespitter. The shape of it and the bronze bit coming from the top of the front of the barrel looks exactly like the Plaguespitters on the Bloat-drone. Also, the blur to his right (our left) looks like another terminator, which looks like he has some kind of two-handed weapon held out in front of him, perhaps like the flail we've seen on one of the teaser Plague Marine pictures, or maybe a Scythe?

The Plague Marine holding out the thing. I'm fairly certain that he's holding out an Icon of Dispare, thinking about it. They can have them and I'm not sure what else it'd be. If it is one, and they're modelling it on the minis, I wander if it'll give an actual benefit.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Leth wrote:
Mortarian told Typhus to follow his plan, Typhus told him to go F himself and he was going to do his own thing.

So yeah, not quite working together.

This is rather hilariously a common pattern for the Legion specific SCs....

Typhus is basically a rogue element.
Ahriman is a rogue element.
Kharn is a rogue element.
Lucius is a rogue element.

I'd long assumed this was purposefully done so as to further justify their being active while the deamon primarchs where absent.

I really like the look of that thing if it is the icon of despair

I agree Brian Davion, it's not like they are unique in being split off in warbands either.

Plus recent fluff makes me think that the Death Guard will more less be a complete Legion again, with the various warbands all working together

Well, that big image of heaps of Nurgle stuff was just shown as being a fully converted army made years ago and not a leak of any new models. So we probably won't be seeing any Death Guard fliers or Contemptors or anything.

That's lowered my expectations considerably. I'm expecting now only Mortarion and the Terminators will be all we're getting that we "haven't seen yet", and then a proper Plague Marine set, Pox walkers and the drones to pretty much be all we're getting. I hope the drones will have some sort of anti-tank capability or a Death Guard army really is going to be terrible

I'm not entirely sure that's the icon, afaik an Icon usually is like a banner or something? I'm not entirely sure so don't quote me on that.

I was just going to cut off the symbol thing of the top of the Lord of Contagion and use that as a stand in, but if that really is the Icon of Despair then I'm not so sure about that.

I think the dragon-headed weapon on the Terminator in the picture is definitely a simple reaper autocannon, a throw-back aesthetic to this old model:



The second picture from above - I don't think the model is holding the icon shown --- I think it's in the foreground of the picture (I think the plaguemarine behind is probably holding a severed head or something in his hand) and is very similar to the icon carried by the Plaguebearer boxed set:



or...

Mortarion orchestrating the overwhelming majority of the DG from the Plague Planet is pretty old lore, the DG were always one of the more united Legions.

I don't think that gun is a Reaper Autocannon. GW seems to be making an effort to give the Cult Legions their own unique special/heavy weapons, and that looks exactly the same as the Bloat Drone's weapon, albeit with a handle.

 Marshal Loss wrote:
Mortarion orchestrating the overwhelming majority of the DG from the Plague Planet is pretty old lore, the DG were always one of the more united Legions.

I don't think that gun is a Reaper Autocannon. GW seems to be making an effort to give the Cult Legions their own unique special/heavy weapons, and that looks exactly the same as the Bloat Drone's weapon, albeit with a handle.

Yeah the only real dissidents were Typhus and his crew because they felt Mortrarian was taking things too slow.

 Marshal Loss wrote:
Mortarion orchestrating the overwhelming majority of the DG from the Plague Planet is pretty old lore, the DG were always one of the more united Legions.

Though it was old, it was still relevant to recent fluff.
They were still in warbands, just generally part of the greater whole like companies in legions just structured very differently

 Leth wrote:
Mortarian told Typhus to follow his plan, Typhus told him to go F himself and he was going to do his own thing.

So yeah, not quite working together.

Other way around actually Typhus is angry at Morty for not following Nurgle's plan as Morty has his own plan blinded by his own ego and sentiment in a quest for revenge against his brother then when Morty gets angry that typhus no longer listens to him Typhus tell his gene father he follows Nurgle not him

 Tiberius501 wrote:

 Grimgold wrote:
So thinking about death guard, my tentative plan is grab the dark imperium box, sell off the primaris marines to basically get the death guard for free (since I was planning on getting the main book anyway). Just have a few questions:

How good are the deathguard, I have a soft spot for grotesque, but if they blow I'll end never playing them.

What start collecting box would go best with them, I was thinking daemons of nurgle to go along with a chaos models I have from 7th ed (a few hell brutes, a chaos land raider, Typhus, a gaggle of cultist, chaos terminators, and a defiler in need of some love).

We don't currently know yet if Death Guard are good, as our whole roster hasn't been anounced and we've been allowed only a small selection from the Chaos Index. Currently we're the weakest army on the table, according to one of the play testers, but we're supposedly going to be made competitive with the coming codex and units after the Dark Imperium launch set

I'd love to read that with my own eyes Which playtester said that, and where? you've made me very curious

 Rippy wrote:
I agree Brian Davion, it's not like they are unique in being split off in warbands either.

Plus recent fluff makes me think that the Death Guard will more less be a complete Legion again, with the various warbands all working together

yeah I'm definatly getting the impression GW is moving to a more focus on Legions again. a cynic would note this is to cash in on tthe popularity of the Heresy. a Optimist ewould note this is GW listening to us. (a realist would note at the end of the day those the cynic and optimist are basicly saying the same thing )

 Rippy wrote:

 Marshal Loss wrote:
Mortarion orchestrating the overwhelming majority of the DG from the Plague Planet is pretty old lore, the DG were always one of the more united Legions.

Though it was old, it was still relevant to recent fluff.
They were still in warbands, just generally part of the greater whole like companies in legions just structured very differently

...yes, it is relevant, because it is essentially the same lore. The only difference is we have Mortarion in realspace now. The Death Guard are still operating the same as they have been since the Heresy. I believe you misread

Anyway, as above, I would like to see where a playtester said that

edit: phone errors

Milkshaker wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:

 Grimgold wrote:
So thinking about death guard, my tentative plan is grab the dark imperium box, sell off the primaris marines to basically get the death guard for free (since I was planning on getting the main book anyway). Just have a few questions:

How good are the deathguard, I have a soft spot for grotesque, but if they blow I'll end never playing them.

What start collecting box would go best with them, I was thinking daemons of nurgle to go along with a chaos models I have from 7th ed (a few hell brutes, a chaos land raider, Typhus, a gaggle of cultist, chaos terminators, and a defiler in need of some love).

We don't currently know yet if Death Guard are good, as our whole roster hasn't been anounced and we've been allowed only a small selection from the Chaos Index. Currently we're the weakest army on the table, according to one of the play testers, but we're supposedly going to be made competitive with the coming codex and units after the Dark Imperium launch set

I'd love to read that with my own eyes Which playtester said that, and where? you've made me very curious

Some people have quoted Reecius saying it, but I'm not sure where he said it

Ey guys! Did you know where this heads come from? I'm totally stole this idea for my DG!

Homemade

see this article

http://leskouzes.blogspot.co.uk/2015/12/toxic-warpclaws.html

What a bummer! They are beautifull.

 Marshal Loss wrote:


Anyway, as above, I would like to see where a playtester said that

If you go on frontline gaming"s website, they did a live QA prior to 8ths release. (I don't have a link sorry)
Their words were "Death Guard are one of the weakest factions for now"
They won't divulge in to our codex, I have tried to ask him on the news and rumors site here, but he isn't allowed to say anything about that yet.

They did also say that the difference between top tier armies and bottom tier was by a lot smaller margin than in 7th.

Thanks for that. If the playtesters were/are at least aware of it, hopefully it means that they (GW) are remedying it with the codex. Fingers crossed. Not sure how much longer I can wait while maintaining my sanity, though...

I'd bet money someone somewhere makes a similar helmet to those posted above - they do look excellent. I've been using Skitarii vanguard heads on my Chaos Marines (who will support plague marines shortly...) and they look great.

Those raptors were sculpted by Maxime Pastourel aka Mörback, who did the Death Guard figures in the Dark Imperium set.

Seeing as how he incorporated the unique head sculpt of his own plague marines and his personal army symbol on one of the plague marine shoulderpads in the starter set, it would not be surprising to see more elements from his personal sculpts in future kits. Those raptor heads are particularly cool, but I really hope we see some dedicated nurgle possessed models, as those would no doubt be amazing.

Warhammer Community just had a big showcase of his personal army: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/06/22/army-showcase-maxime-pastourels-plague-marines-june22gw-homepage-post-4/

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/06/25/new-primaris-space-marines-and-death-guard-announced/

Some new snap fit/easy to build kits for Death Guard. We now know how the blight launcher is supposed to look. Overall i'm happy with this, more variation in sculpts in addition to the multi part kits later on is nice. And these kits are good for new players or people who haven't ever built a warhammer model before. These releases will probably lead us into mid july or something. After that I guess it'll be the full primaris release then DG. Unless GW pulls out more surprises.

No more snap fits pls GDubs, just our full multi part kit. K thx.

I still think the Nurgle models are heinous, but I don't mind the snap-fit stuff. For basic units, I've never cared about the complexity of the models.

I actually like those Reivers. Very Night Lords.

And those pox walkers are different than the starter ones? I totally don't need any more zombies but that's damn cool.

Well, the Plague Launcher looks cool, the Pox Walkers look like they've been copied from some of the sculpts in the DI box set already, just with a few alterations, but still cool. 5 is a bit pointless though.
The Reivers look awesome and it's nice to see Primaris getting a Librarian.

What I'm afraid of though is that our codex won't be released for a long time, as all we're getting is easy build stuff through July. Unless that's our real kits (which would suck. Would they even put weapon options into easy build kits?) we're going to be waiting a while before our army is even brought up to the standards of everyone else.

That said, at least the models look awesome and it's nice to see a release date for more stuff

There is a rumour on Natfka that we could be getting our codex in July still

Let's hope that the click baiting son of an Ork is correct!

 Rippy wrote:
There is a rumour on Natfka that we could be getting our codex in July still

Let's hope that the click baiting son of an Ork is correct!

Well a real rumormonger in Atia confirmed a 10 man plastic plague marine box and a new Death Guard tank, so that's a guarantee. As to when, she did not say. I'd be happy with August, but July would certainly be preferable.

 Elbows wrote:
I still think the Nurgle models are heinous, but I don't mind the snap-fit stuff. For basic units, I've never cared about the complexity of the models.

The Poxwalkers I can live with - the actual Plague Marines put me off. Too many random fleshy bits. I mean, that sort of approach would be great for Possessed but....yeah, it really doesn't mesh aesthetically well with any existing version of Plague Marines they've had to date.

Use them as chosen with mark of nurgle.

 Starfarer wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
There is a rumour on Natfka that we could be getting our codex in July still

Let's hope that the click baiting son of an Ork is correct!

Well a real rumormonger in Atia confirmed a 10 man plastic plague marine box and a new Death Guard tank, so that's a guarantee. As to when, she did not say. I'd be happy with August, but July would certainly be preferable.

Is she a personal rumourmonger or would you have a source? Either way this makes me pretty pumped. I'm really hoping the tank resembles a Vindicator in some way. And a codex/release in July or August would be great

She's been reliable enough in the past.

Could have guessed the tank without her though - the DG art in the teaser video has a tank in it, and all the marines in the art are exact replicas of some of the Dark Imperium marines, so I'd say she's on the money.

Now if only GW would stop teasing and just give us some pictures...

 Tiberius501 wrote:

 Starfarer wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
There is a rumour on Natfka that we could be getting our codex in July still

Let's hope that the click baiting son of an Ork is correct!

Well a real rumormonger in Atia confirmed a 10 man plastic plague marine box and a new Death Guard tank, so that's a guarantee. As to when, she did not say. I'd be happy with August, but July would certainly be preferable.

Is she a personal rumourmonger or would you have a source? Either way this makes me pretty pumped. I'm really hoping the tank resembles a Vindicator in some way. And a codex/release in July or August would be great

She's a pretty well known rumormonger, and has 75 True and 0 False claims on the Dakka rumor tracker: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/448304.page

She has a blog where she mentioned these units on the comments on a recent post. https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/2193#disqus_thread

 Marshal Loss wrote:
She's been reliable enough in the past.

Could have guessed the tank without her though - the DG art in the teaser video has a tank in it, and all the marines in the art are exact replicas of some of the Dark Imperium marines, so I'd say she's on the money.

Now if only GW would stop teasing and just give us some pictures...

Maybe it's just me, but I have a hard time getting excited for more tanks for my DG when I still don't feel safe assuming we will get terminators. That single clear image seems more and more worryingly like an HQ option than part of a squad.

SilverAlien wrote:

 Marshal Loss wrote:
She's been reliable enough in the past.

Could have guessed the tank without her though - the DG art in the teaser video has a tank in it, and all the marines in the art are exact replicas of some of the Dark Imperium marines, so I'd say she's on the money.

Now if only GW would stop teasing and just give us some pictures...

Maybe it's just me, but I have a hard time getting excited for more tanks for my DG when I still don't feel safe assuming we will get terminators. That single clear image seems more and more worryingly like an HQ option than part of a squad.

We will get Terminators. I'm not sure how you could come to the conclusion that the preview picture is of a HQ model, as the weapon looks almost identical to the Plaguespitter on the Bloat Drone. It's a heavy weapon specialist from a forthcoming Terminator squad. In the background, you can even vaguely make out the silhouette of another DG Terminator. Look at the trim around the gorget.



Do you really think GW would pass up on the chance to fiddle with the CAD Cataphractii units (as they did with the CAD Tartaros for TS) to create a Terminator unit for one of the Legions most strongly associated with Terminators? I don't mean to sound like a dick, but there is no way we're not getting a squad of Terminators. No way at all. I'd happily bet on it. The question is when, not if.

I think the question is really "When we get a DG Terminator unit, will it have options compatible with the models we currently have?"

The last thing we want is a cool new unique DG Terminator unit that replaces vanilla terminator options and means we have to rip our models apart

I'm honestly not taking anything for granted. Better to expect the worst and be surprised is my general motto. If I keep my expectations so low that even getting terminators is optimistic, I won't be as annoyed when they invalidate my existing terminators with a new (quite possibly worse) version.

Uhh, okay. Whatever works for you.

Charax wrote:
I think the question is really "When we get a DG Terminator unit, will it have options compatible with the models we currently have?"

The last thing we want is a cool new unique DG Terminator unit that replaces vanilla terminator options and means we have to rip our models apart

This is a valid concern. I'm hoping that as DG aren't dustbots we'll have more freedom with weapons and wargear than the Scarab Occult, but that's just blind hope. I feel for oldschool DG players here. Fingers crossed.

 Marshal Loss wrote:
Uhh, okay. Whatever works for you.

Charax wrote:
I think the question is really "When we get a DG Terminator unit, will it have options compatible with the models we currently have?"

The last thing we want is a cool new unique DG Terminator unit that replaces vanilla terminator options and means we have to rip our models apart

This is a valid concern. I'm hoping that as DG aren't dustbots we'll have more freedom with weapons and wargear than the Scarab Occult, but that's just blind hope. I feel for oldschool DG players here. Fingers crossed.

I would imagine they will get unique gear to differentiate between regular termies and these guys. If we're lucky it will be a dual kit of grave wardens and deathshroud termies. I would imagine that the chance of them being able to take regular gear is quite slim unfortunately :(


Also, I'm really curious to see the tank. I hope it's a nurglified Sicaran battle tank! I imagine it'll be rhino based though, due to cost reasons.

According to fluff DG used mainly Vindis, Typhons and fellblades. Looking at the pics from the intro-vid I find Vindis rather likely. Of course they won't be called Vindicator but ... corroded slimelobbers. Probably also a dual-kit with some unique weapon loadout.

So any concrete news on our release. Last i heard was now November release which frankly is a joke if true

Nothing yet - and before people argue that the other thread where the omitting of Terminators may have been a mistake wouldn't be so because GW don't cover rules for FW models....remember, Razorbacks don't come with Assault Cannons and never have - but FW make a kit for that.

I'm now concerned.

The new Primaris characters have a free download for points for matched Play...but it has a disclaimer saying 'The rules are supplied with the model' and no profile info etc. I do hope this isn't their new approach. Please don't forgo Codexes for this approach GW. Give us some faith.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Nothing yet - and before people argue that the other thread where the omitting of Terminators may have been a mistake wouldn't be so because GW don't cover rules for FW models....remember, Razorbacks don't come with Assault Cannons and never have - but FW make a kit for that.

I'm now concerned.

The new Primaris characters have a free download for points for matched Play...but it has a disclaimer saying 'The rules are supplied with the model' and no profile info etc. I do hope this isn't their new approach. Please don't forgo Codexes for this approach GW. Give us some faith.

Last I heard codices are gone and its all data cards now.

Vaxx wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Nothing yet - and before people argue that the other thread where the omitting of Terminators may have been a mistake wouldn't be so because GW don't cover rules for FW models....remember, Razorbacks don't come with Assault Cannons and never have - but FW make a kit for that.

I'm now concerned.

The new Primaris characters have a free download for points for matched Play...but it has a disclaimer saying 'The rules are supplied with the model' and no profile info etc. I do hope this isn't their new approach. Please don't forgo Codexes for this approach GW. Give us some faith.

Last I heard codices are gone and its all data cards now.

Guys they literally mention codices in the rulebook. Who knows what they will look like, but they will come.

SilverAlien wrote:

Vaxx wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Nothing yet - and before people argue that the other thread where the omitting of Terminators may have been a mistake wouldn't be so because GW don't cover rules for FW models....remember, Razorbacks don't come with Assault Cannons and never have - but FW make a kit for that.

I'm now concerned.

The new Primaris characters have a free download for points for matched Play...but it has a disclaimer saying 'The rules are supplied with the model' and no profile info etc. I do hope this isn't their new approach. Please don't forgo Codexes for this approach GW. Give us some faith.

Last I heard codices are gone and its all data cards now.

Guys they literally mention codices in the rulebook. Who knows what they will look like, but they will come.

I'm fairly certain GW have even said a few times that codices are coming

 Motograter wrote:
So any concrete news on our release. Last i heard was now November release which frankly is a joke if true

That would make it a crazy amount of time since DGs initial trailer and announcement. I would be surprised, a lot of DG players want to continue building their army now that they are in the starter kit. Primaris are already getting two hqs and the reivers. So i'm hoping they do something for the DG at the very end of july or during august. I don't know if GW plans on alternating between primaris and death guard for weeks or months but they might do an unconventional release schedule.

 Thargrim wrote:

 Motograter wrote:
So any concrete news on our release. Last i heard was now November release which frankly is a joke if true

That would make it a crazy amount of time since DGs initial trailer and announcement. I would be surprised, a lot of DG players want to continue building their army now that they are in the starter kit. Primaris are already getting two hqs and the reivers. So i'm hoping they do something for the DG at the very end of july or during august. I don't know if GW plans on alternating between primaris and death guard for weeks or months but they might do an unconventional release schedule.

2 HQs, Reivers and we've already seen a transport/tank and dread for their army.

Meanwhile we Death Guard players just want them to show us something - anything! It'd do a world of good to get proper Terminator confirmation with perhaps showing layouts? Or heck, stop cockteasing us with Mortarion's left pinky, scythetip, random bell and just fething show us him.

Agree with DSS. I wouldn't mind waiting another 1-3 months if they showed us what we were actually getting. It's the vast wait from initial tease to release, with no details in between, that bothers me, especially when Primaris are dealing with no such shenanigans.

Guys, you are receiving 6 new poxwalkers sculpts and 3 plague marines sculpts.

What are you whining for?

Need some advice on my list.

HQ:
Typus
Necroius
Daemon Prince with twin Claws

Troops:
Plague Marines x7, 2 Blight launchers, plasmagun and powerfist
Plague Marines x7, 2 Blight launchers, plasmagun and powerfist
Poxwalkers x 19

Dedicated Transports:
Rhino with combibolter, combiflamer, and havoc launcher
Rhino with combibolter, combiflamer, and havoc launcher

Elites:
Helbrute with twin heavy bolter, fist, and flamer
Helbrute with twin heavy bolter, fist, and flamer

Fast:
Bloat Drone with spitters and melee weapon thing
Bloat Drone with spitters and melee weapon thing

Heavy:
Plague Hulk

This hits 2000 pts exactly.

This list will have the entire army move up to midfield having lots of tough things to shoot at with lots of flamers.
I'm really liking flamers - they seem to be tough for the points and with a full weapon load out they can harass most units.
I'm going to be adding to the army as the new units come out, but I'm really thinking I'm going to be leaning toward heavy bolters or similar on many of my units.

Both Typhus and Nacrosios will be hanging with the pox walkers while buffing and debuffing and throwing out smites.

What do yall think of these Helbrutes? I have them set up for an all around unit, sporting a flamer and hvy bolters. They are also a good anti tank with the fist.

Well... you've got no real anti tank besides the hellbrute's fist and plague hulk melee. The plague marines' special weapons and drones' melee can kinda stand in, but those are more for heavy infantry. Some ranged anti tank is probably not an awful idea.

You are also sinking a lot of points into making poxwalkers good, around 400 points to be exact. They won't fit in a transport and will be quickly outpaced by literally everything else. You probably need a blightbringer to help them advance if you want them to contribute, and typhus will still be an issue. Consider letting typhus deepstrike to support your faster units, while necrosius supports the poxwalkers. Typhus is still better than the normal lord of contagion and can easily show his worth with melee and psychic powers, and his normal buff aura.

Do you plan on keeping the demon prince near the plague marines? The overcharged mode is the real draw on those guns.

Also remember that the hellbrute loses a point of BS when he moves this edition. It isn't awful, but it does encourage full melee or ranged hellbrute somewhat.

SilverAlien wrote:
Well... you've got no real anti tank besides the hellbrute's fist and plague hulk melee. The plague marines' special weapons and drones' melee can kinda stand in, but those are more for heavy infantry. Some ranged anti tank is probably not an awful idea.

You are also sinking a lot of points into making poxwalkers good, around 400 points to be exact. They won't fit in a transport and will be quickly outpaced by literally everything else. You probably need a blightbringer to help them advance if you want them to contribute, and typhus will still be an issue. Consider letting typhus deepstrike to support your faster units, while necrosius supports the poxwalkers. Typhus is still better than the normal lord of contagion and can easily show his worth with melee and psychic powers, and his normal buff aura.

Do you plan on keeping the demon prince near the plague marines? The overcharged mode is the real draw on those guns.

Also remember that the hellbrute loses a point of BS when he moves this edition. It isn't awful, but it does encourage full melee or ranged hellbrute somewhat.

I was looking at the lascannon/missle helbrutes instead, having a couple in the backfield around the poxwalkers, letting them screen them.

My old DG list was very vehicle heavy, and I would totally get a landraider in this edition, but I'm waiting around to see what new vehicles we may get. If it really is a dual kit, I think I"ll be returning to my fullly armored company,

 Swara wrote:
I was looking at the lascannon/missle helbrutes instead, having a couple in the backfield around the poxwalkers, letting them screen them.

My old DG list was very vehicle heavy, and I would totally get a landraider in this edition, but I'm waiting around to see what new vehicles we may get. If it really is a dual kit, I think I"ll be returning to my fullly armored company,

I think the lascannon+missle launcher is a good choice. Not sure about landraiders yet, I haven't really used mine given terminators don't need transports so far.

SilverAlien wrote:

 Swara wrote:
I was looking at the lascannon/missle helbrutes instead, having a couple in the backfield around the poxwalkers, letting them screen them.

My old DG list was very vehicle heavy, and I would totally get a landraider in this edition, but I'm waiting around to see what new vehicles we may get. If it really is a dual kit, I think I"ll be returning to my fullly armored company,

I think the lascannon+missle launcher is a good choice. Not sure about landraiders yet, I haven't really used mine given terminators don't need transports so far.

Im wondering how easy the helbrutes would be to magnatize, I haven't even seen that kit yet up close.

Looks like no major DG release in July/August. No Mortarion for Konor is a bizarre decision, in keeping with this painfully drawn-out DG hype.

Turns out the Plague Champion in the 'easy to build' box has a plasma gun on his back - pretty cool.

 Swara wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:

 Swara wrote:
I was looking at the lascannon/missle helbrutes instead, having a couple in the backfield around the poxwalkers, letting them screen them.

My old DG list was very vehicle heavy, and I would totally get a landraider in this edition, but I'm waiting around to see what new vehicles we may get. If it really is a dual kit, I think I"ll be returning to my fullly armored company,

I think the lascannon+missle launcher is a good choice. Not sure about landraiders yet, I haven't really used mine given terminators don't need transports so far.

Im wondering how easy the helbrutes would be to magnatize, I haven't even seen that kit yet up close.

It's pretty easy to magnetize, you should use rather large magnets though (I used 3x1 and find they should be stronger). You'll find how to's on youtube.

 Marshal Loss wrote:
Looks like no major DG release in July/August. No Mortarion for Konor is a bizarre decision, in keeping with this painfully drawn-out DG hype.

Turns out the Plague Champion in the 'easy to build' box has a plasma gun on his back - pretty cool.

Source on release schedule?

cerberus_ wrote:

 Marshal Loss wrote:
Looks like no major DG release in July/August. No Mortarion for Konor is a bizarre decision, in keeping with this painfully drawn-out DG hype.

Turns out the Plague Champion in the 'easy to build' box has a plasma gun on his back - pretty cool.

Source on release schedule?

White dwarf July talks about upcoming releases, and the only DG mentioned are new models of the existing units. The teaser for white dwarf august talks about astartes index with no mention whatsoever of DG. It isn't confirmed 100%, but assume this is all we get for the next couple months at least.

SilverAlien wrote:

cerberus_ wrote:

 Marshal Loss wrote:
Looks like no major DG release in July/August. No Mortarion for Konor is a bizarre decision, in keeping with this painfully drawn-out DG hype.

Turns out the Plague Champion in the 'easy to build' box has a plasma gun on his back - pretty cool.

Source on release schedule?

White dwarf July talks about upcoming releases, and the only DG mentioned are new models of the existing units. The teaser for white dwarf august talks about astartes index with no mention whatsoever of DG. It isn't confirmed 100%, but assume this is all we get for the next couple months at least.

Kind of a let down really. You want the hype to be maintained throughout a spoiler season; it's kind of dying down without any new "real" spoilers. I think they jumped the gun on the first DG teaser.

With the summer campaign and 8th launch buzz they probably wanted Lil Timmy splashing as much as possible on new Space Marine releases before the presumably less popular DG.

So GW just announced that codexes are definitely coming.
Kicking it off with Space Marines, then Grey Knights, then Chaos and then we get ours. Aiming to get 10 of them out before Christmas so that's roughly 2 a month.
We won't be getting our Death Guard release until at least September it seams, so I'm not expecting any new stuff on us for a while. They went way too early with the DG teasers

 Tiberius501 wrote:
So GW just announced that codexes are definitely coming.
Kicking it off with Space Marines, then Grey Knights, then Chaos and then we get ours. Aiming to get 10 of them out before Christmas so that's roughly 2 a month.
We won't be getting our Death Guard release until at least September it seams, so I'm not expecting any new stuff on us for a while. They went way too early with the DG teasers

Wait really? Where was this announced?

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
So GW just announced that codexes are definitely coming.
Kicking it off with Space Marines, then Grey Knights, then Chaos and then we get ours. Aiming to get 10 of them out before Christmas so that's roughly 2 a month.
We won't be getting our Death Guard release until at least September it seams, so I'm not expecting any new stuff on us for a while. They went way too early with the DG teasers

Wait really? Where was this announced?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/your-codex-is-coming-july-5gw-homepage-post-1/

Well at least CSM isn't the first this time, that's certainly going to be interesting.

I like that they paired the two by faction. SM/GK, then CSM/DG. Maybe we'll see Craftworld/Dark Eldar the next month.

Kinda weird that they say they will include sub factions in the codex, then goes on to release codex death guard. Does this mean that legions like World eaters wont be included in the CSM codex and get their own later, or will they just be included in CSM and never get a codex?


PS:

Ok i just read this on the questions part of the article:

"Wait, did you say Death Guard?
We did. The Plague Legions of Nurgle are getting their own book to represent the fact that their way of war is substantially different from that of most Traitor Legions, as is the range of miniatures you can choose to use in your Death Guard army."

So I take it death guard will be the only legion with their own codex which is extremely sad. Or maybe they are just talking about the "minor" legions like nightlords etz.?

FudgeDumper wrote:
Kinda weird that they say they will include sub factions in the codex, then goes on to release codex death guard. Does this mean that legions like World eaters wont be included in the CSM codex and get their own later, or will they just be included in CSM and never get a codex?

I'm expecting something like the Space Marine one. Everyone, except for the 4 god specific factions, will be included in the Chaos codex and get their own legion rules within it. And then Death Guard, Khorne, Slaneesh and TSons will get their own, like Blood Angels, Space Woofs, etc.
that's my guess anyway

 Tiberius501 wrote:

FudgeDumper wrote:
Kinda weird that they say they will include sub factions in the codex, then goes on to release codex death guard. Does this mean that legions like World eaters wont be included in the CSM codex and get their own later, or will they just be included in CSM and never get a codex?

I'm expecting something like the Space Marine one. Everyone, except for the 4 god specific factions, will be included in the Chaos codex and get their own legion rules within it. And then Death Guard, Khorne, Slaneesh and TSons will get their own, like Blood Angels, Space Woofs, etc.
that's my guess anyway

Hey, that's a good guess. I'd be fine with that.

Exactly. The Death Guard idea is clearly to finally give CSM their own versions of the SM big chapters. The ones that have always been getting their own books, even though they're clearly SM. The rest are minor sub factions in the main book, like Black Templars are for the loyalists.
Maybe it's only Death Guard for now, but I really think the idea is to have a few of these larger sub-factions.

 Purifier wrote:
Exactly. The Death Guard idea is clearly to finally give CSM their own versions of the SM big chapters. The ones that have always been getting their own books, even though they're clearly SM. The rest are minor sub factions in the main book, like Black Templars are for the loyalists.
Maybe it's only Death Guard for now, but I really think the idea is to have a few of these larger sub-factions.

Thousand Sons are probably getting one as well, given the whole push and all earlier.

Do note that the wording means it isn't impossible for DG in late August, maybe even sooner. It sounds like space marines are the only release in July, but CSM and grey knights almost sound like concurrent releases, with DG taking place later. But who knows for sure.

Wasn't there a rumour floating about which listed odd pairings of armies that everyone dismissed as being strange?

And now we see the 10 Codexes before the end of the year plan....this seems kind of feasible.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Wasn't there a rumour floating about which listed odd pairings of armies that everyone dismissed as being strange?

And now we see the 10 Codexes before the end of the year plan....this seems kind of feasible.

The pairings wouldn't seem to match what we've been told though. It had primaris and DG up first (primaris isn't getting a unique codex, DG is coming fourth), both in July. It had IG and eldar next, who haven't been mentioned, followed by sisters of Battle and chaos marines.

If we want to be generous... DG got pushed back either to do more playtesting or space out model releases, they confused sisters of Battle and grey knights, and got the order slightly wrong with IG and eldar coming 5th and 6th (followed presumably by demons/tsons if they were at all accurate).

More likely it was just an educated guess with two codexes per month, given we knew something like 15 are currently in development.

SilverAlien wrote:

cerberus_ wrote:

 Marshal Loss wrote:
Looks like no major DG release in July/August. No Mortarion for Konor is a bizarre decision, in keeping with this painfully drawn-out DG hype.

Turns out the Plague Champion in the 'easy to build' box has a plasma gun on his back - pretty cool.

Source on release schedule?

White dwarf July talks about upcoming releases, and the only DG mentioned are new models of the existing units. The teaser for white dwarf august talks about astartes index with no mention whatsoever of DG. It isn't confirmed 100%, but assume this is all we get for the next couple months at least.

White Dwarf July also says nothing about the Codex release for Space Marines, yet we now know that it is coming.

They don't put all of the releases in WD. Given that Death Guard are supposed to play a big part in the "Fate of Konor" I would be surprised to not see them get anything big. There are supposedly specific events that will happen during the campaign though, which is where I would expect to see releases happen.

We'll see, I am unconvinced but who knows.

The hint for August is 'Index Astartes,' if the codex goes on preorder in the last week or so of July then you have the SM codex linking up with the articles in the August WD.

If they cared about having Mortarion and the DG fully released for Konor, they would have already ramped it up, as the 'building period' that they are promoting in their stores concludes at the end of July.

A Daemon Primarch is a big deal. When you want a model like that (or in this case the accompanying codex) released, you want to have your WD articles and the like released in unison. As a result, I'd expect to see Mortarion and crew available for preorder in the last week of August, earliest.

Happy to be wrong, but I doubt it.

 Marshal Loss wrote:
The hint for August is 'Index Astartes,' if the codex goes on preorder in the last week or so of July then you have the SM codex linking up with the articles in the August WD.

If they cared about having Mortarion and the DG fully released for Konor, they would have already ramped it up, as the 'building period' that they are promoting in their stores concludes at the end of July.

A Daemon Primarch is a big deal. When you want a model like that (or in this case the accompanying codex) released, you want to have your WD articles and the like released in unison. As a result, I'd expect to see Mortarion and crew available for preorder in the last week of August, earliest.

Happy to be wrong, but I doubt it.

I wonder if they will release DG models before their codex releases. Like how SM are just getting a captain/librarian. They just put the datasheets in the box. They could easily release the 5-10 man plague marine kit for the campaign because the datasheet is already out. What they might hold for the codex is the vehicle, mortarion, and any brand new concepts we have not seen yet. I'm probably just wishing too hard here...but oh well...late august/september it is I guess.

 Thargrim wrote:

 Marshal Loss wrote:
The hint for August is 'Index Astartes,' if the codex goes on preorder in the last week or so of July then you have the SM codex linking up with the articles in the August WD.

If they cared about having Mortarion and the DG fully released for Konor, they would have already ramped it up, as the 'building period' that they are promoting in their stores concludes at the end of July.

A Daemon Primarch is a big deal. When you want a model like that (or in this case the accompanying codex) released, you want to have your WD articles and the like released in unison. As a result, I'd expect to see Mortarion and crew available for preorder in the last week of August, earliest.

Happy to be wrong, but I doubt it.

I wonder if they will release DG models before their codex releases. Like how SM are just getting a captain/librarian. They just put the datasheets in the box. They could easily release the 5-10 man plague marine kit for the campaign because the datasheet is already out. What they might hold for the codex is the vehicle, mortarion, and any brand new concepts we have not seen yet. I'm probably just wishing too hard here...but oh well...late august/september it is I guess.

Well under the article where they announced the Primaris Reivers and the new snap-fit DG with the Blight Launcher, they did say we'd be getting more stuff in July, but I'm pretty sure, from how they worded it, that it'll be more snap-fit stuff. It may just be more Plague Marines but who knows

Also, it is entirely possable that they could release the models with the data sheets in the boxes soon, and follow with a codex later.

So it appears at least one vehicle of ours may have been leaked "plagueburst crawler". Possibly artillery of same sort?

Sounds cool. Where's the leak?

 Marshal Loss wrote:
Sounds cool. Where's the leak?

Newest white dwarf (or preview of next months im not certain) Battle report death guard va primaris. Pictures are in news and rumors, codex discussion.

Oo, thanks for that. Exciting stuff!

SilverAlien wrote:
So it appears at least one vehicle of ours may have been leaked "plagueburst crawler". Possibly artillery of same sort?

Yeah it has some big mortar on its back, definitely. Looks interesting, though I'd have to see a better image to guess what it actually looks like. Looks very old school from here though, which is pretty ace. It's definitely legit though, as it's totally from that old, dark green artwork shown a while ago with the two shovelled vehicles

The top left thingy -
Pic reposted from the news and rumors

A mortor tank seems very DGey - hopefully it'll have a 2nd kit as well

After mentioning that Death Guard, "march into battle in organised ranks, covered by artillery fire," several times in both the index and mini Death Guard book, I did wander if we were going to get some kind of artillery

I am liking that tank, hopefully we get a few more units though, a single tank isn't going to plug the holes in the DG codex.

 Rippy wrote:
I am liking that tank, hopefully we get a few more units though, a single tank isn't going to plug the holes in the DG codex.

It does look like that might be our Vindicator equivalent. I guess it may be time to look at sticking random sponsons on your existing Vindicators....

With a vindicator, this new tank with presumably a solid anti infantry/horde main weapon and a decent terminator variation, our list would have most everything it needs. Even the vindicator is mostly just for fluff and because many of us already own one, predators are generally a better pick right now it seems.

Now we just need our unique units to be priced more logically.

Also, better picture of the vehicle thanks to new and rumors/heresy online.

 Rippy wrote:
I am liking that tank, hopefully we get a few more units though, a single tank isn't going to plug the holes in the DG codex.

Hopefully it's a multi kit with one being the mortar and one maybe being a heavy mid ranged? That with special termies and mort will help fill us out.

 Swara wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
I am liking that tank, hopefully we get a few more units though, a single tank isn't going to plug the holes in the DG codex.

Hopefully it's a multi kit with one being the mortar and one maybe being a heavy mid ranged? That with special termies and mort will help fill us out.

We don't really have any fluffy anti-tank. Maybe this tank will have a variant for that, or is that what you mean by heavy mid ranged?

It seems DG doesn't have super fluffy anti tank period, given they don't apparently don't use heavy weapon squads or tanks. They basically charge in with meltas or use terminators. (possibly with meltas as well) . Hellbrutes are probably the closest thing to a fluffy lascannon mount from what I can tell.

SilverAlien wrote:
It seems DG doesn't have super fluffy anti tank period, given they don't apparently don't use heavy weapon squads or tanks. They basically charge in with meltas or use terminators. (possibly with meltas as well) . Hellbrutes are probably the closest thing to a fluffy lascannon mount from what I can tell.

I'd love to see a new DG Contemptor kit. That would fit the Hellbrute's role of anti-tank and be very fluffy. If not, I guess using a Contemptor model in place of a Hellbrute also works. My only issue is that Hellbrutes are modern Dreadnaught chassis, rather than Heresy era dreads like the Contemptor. I'm OCD with these things haha

 Tiberius501 wrote:

 Swara wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
I am liking that tank, hopefully we get a few more units though, a single tank isn't going to plug the holes in the DG codex.

Hopefully it's a multi kit with one being the mortar and one maybe being a heavy mid ranged? That with special termies and mort will help fill us out.

We don't really have any fluffy anti-tank. Maybe this tank will have a variant for that, or is that what you mean by heavy mid ranged?

Somerthing to replace the vindi

the mortar makes me wonder if it'll be more akin to a whirlwind, ti'd be a tatical capability chaos doesn't have, so fill a unique niche.

Mortar tanks with zombies bubble walls, what a time to be alive

 Rippy wrote:
Mortar tanks with zombies bubble walls, what a time to be alive

that's a good point, use zombies and cultists as your cheap bubble wrap so you can use your plague marines to push forward.

 Tiberius501 wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:
It seems DG doesn't have super fluffy anti tank period, given they don't apparently don't use heavy weapon squads or tanks. They basically charge in with meltas or use terminators. (possibly with meltas as well) . Hellbrutes are probably the closest thing to a fluffy lascannon mount from what I can tell.

I'd love to see a new DG Contemptor kit. That would fit the Hellbrute's role of anti-tank and be very fluffy. If not, I guess using a Contemptor model in place of a Hellbrute also works. My only issue is that Hellbrutes are modern Dreadnaught chassis, rather than Heresy era dreads like the Contemptor. I'm OCD with these things haha

I'd rather see us get a plastic chaos decimator to counter the size of the Primaris dread. Hopefully we could have these in addition to regular helbrutes, as I love having crazed zombie mechs running around killing stuff.

DANGN that tank better be a conversion, it looks like a bread box.

FudgeDumper wrote:
DANGN that tank better be a conversion, it looks like a bread box.

I've just got back to 40k and started collecting models for a Death Guard army... but this model?
It looks like a humpback bridge has had a mantic mortar glued to the back, a snowplough on the front, some guns stuck on the side and a couple of neat rows of obligatory spikes.

If it's got some king of slug beast under it with bits of it showing, it could be ok, but as it is, for me, it's on par with that Taurox thing for lousiness.

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

FudgeDumper wrote:
DANGN that tank better be a conversion, it looks like a bread box.

I've just got back to 40k and started collecting models for a Death Guard army... but this model?
It looks like a humpback bridge has had a mantic mortar glued to the back, a snowplough on the front, some guns stuck on the side and a couple of neat rows of obligatory spikes.

If it's got some king of slug beast under it with bits of it showing, it could be ok, but as it is, for me, it's on par with that Taurox thing for lousiness.

Going by the dark green illustration that was also sighted, it has a lot more detail on it than this blurry photo lets on. I'm holding my judgment until we get to see proper pictures.

The release of the Death Guard stuff (and recently the thousand sons stuff) has got me hopeful for new World Eaters stuff in the future.

From News and Rumors

Mamon and Necrosius are now officially Death Guard.

And all FW units (that aren't marked otherwise) can be Death Guard. Except rapiers (why???) And the hellwright.

Honestly if the new codex for Death Guard/CSM gives Plague Marines two attacks to match the other Cult Marines I'll consider this a success.

 Galas wrote:
From News and Rumors

Spoiler:

Is it a perspective issue with the shot, or is the left (right for us) side have notably larger spikes and sponson than the left?

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Mamon and Necrosius are now officially Death Guard.

And all FW units (that aren't marked otherwise) can be Death Guard. Except rapiers (why???) And the hellwright.

Hmm? They post a FAQ somewhere or errata?

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Mamon and Necrosius are now officially Death Guard.

And all FW units (that aren't marked otherwise) can be Death Guard. Except rapiers (why???) And the hellwright.

Hmm? They post a FAQ somewhere or errata?

here: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/09/forge-world-faq-july9gw-homepage-post-4/

For some reason, they've decided to put faqs and errata on the community site rather than the GW/forgeworld sites. It looks like this is the plan moving forward for both. .

SilverAlien wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Mamon and Necrosius are now officially Death Guard.

And all FW units (that aren't marked otherwise) can be Death Guard. Except rapiers (why???) And the hellwright.

Hmm? They post a FAQ somewhere or errata?

here: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/09/forge-world-faq-july9gw-homepage-post-4/

For some reason, they've decided to put faqs and errata on the community site rather than the GW/forgeworld sites. It looks like this is the plan moving forward for both. .

Ah, not updated FW or the digital sites yet, that's what threw me off.

Good to see the characters getting the appropriate Legion tags - so Zhufor can be taken in a World Eaters army. I fully expect later down the line, when they give us expanded Codexes detailing the warbands and subfactions we'll get a rule tag similar to the successor chapter mentions for the Imperium - but that'll be a while, until they give us sub-faction specific characters and the like....

I.e. You already have the Lamenters SC from FW, Seth and the BA characters being seperate things - just substituting the Blood Angels tag for the appropriate chapter (and losing the Blood Angels uniques) - would make sense for Chaos to get the same sort of attention - especially as we know that The Tainted are a sub faction of Death Guard (from the way they've listed them) and Skulltakers are a sub-faction of World Eaters...

Eh...sorta iffy on the new tank. Seems like its sort of low effort? Maybe its just me but I hate spikes just being thrown on something. Would have been more cool if they made it some monstrous maggot beats or something.

Yeah, it's not doing a lot for me, but I don't buy into the super-spikey-death Chaos stuff. I did chuckle at how close it is to this kit-bash I did a few weeks back.

Imperial_Wolf wrote:
Eh...sorta iffy on the new tank. Seems like its sort of low effort? Maybe its just me but I hate spikes just being thrown on something. Would have been more cool if they made it some monstrous maggot beats or something.

It's...a mix of things from what I see.

First, the paint scheme they went with is fething terrible. Way too clean looking and far too bright, which doesn't really do the visible cracks, pustules, pock marks etc justice in the slightest.

The shape is kind of off - it looks...dumpy...like they couldn't decide if it was a tank or an artillery piece when we have plenty of examples already that could have been used for a base and probably would have been far kinder to existing Death Guard players who got told they can't take unit X, Y or Z - Vindicators (this would have been the winner to base the design off of as it suddenly gives us our vindicators back), Medusa siege tanks, Basilisks, Griffon Mortar tanks - all better example of artillery tanks they could have based the design off of.

Yeah, that tank... I agree that it looks iffy. Sometimes you have to see these things in real life to actually get it. But in the photo it looks like a poor effort. I hope I'm wrong. Anyway, it'll lighten my bits box if I do get one.

Does anyone know if it's based on a heresy-era vehicle?

 Funbug No.1 wrote:
Yeah, that tank... I agree that it looks iffy. Sometimes you have to see these things in real life to actually get it. But in the photo it looks like a poor effort. I hope I'm wrong. Anyway, it'll lighten my bits box if I do get one.

Does anyone know if it's based on a heresy-era vehicle?

Only vehicle that looks close is the minotaur artillery tank, but even then its a stretch. So it might just be some kind of new construction by the DG.

I kind of want to take the individual little nurgling models and put them on the hull, swinging from the spikes, doing handstands on top of the hull. Hopefully the arse end of it has some cool detailing or something to make up for the slightly plain top section.

 Funbug No.1 wrote:
Yeah, that tank... I agree that it looks iffy. Sometimes you have to see these things in real life to actually get it. But in the photo it looks like a poor effort. I hope I'm wrong. Anyway, it'll lighten my bits box if I do get one.

Does anyone know if it's based on a heresy-era vehicle?

Nope.

The Heresy equivalent siege tank was the Vindicator though some used Legion Basilisks as well.

I just don't understand GW's desire to make random NEW chassis for traitor vehicles - when the whole idea is that they use corrupted SM vehicles as their base - why not just adhere to that whole design rather than giving us something that just looks so out of place? It's not even much of a nod to the 30k smoother aesthetic or even the old Plague Catapult epic vehicles that maybe they tried to make it a nod to?

None that I'm familiar with. The shape is very different from most existing space marine tanks. Look at the way the back slopes compared to the rhino, it's much more rounded than anything else I've seen.

Personally I'm a fan. The overall sluglike shape is subtle but a nice change from the universally boxy space marine vehicles.

I think it looks cool. GW can never please the whole CSM audience. If they stick to SM with spikes people will say: Hey, we threw away our codices and the emperor's rule, why didn't we invent something on our own in 10K years? Dark mechanicum isn't as dumb as normal mechanicum!
And if they bring something new people will say: Nah, it doesn't look like SM or heresy, it doesn't fit.
I think it's a good compromize between these positions. You can easily prox it with your vindicators and it also looks okay next to a bloat drone (those sponsons might be plague spitters).

I actually like the curved hull. I'm bored of box-tanks for Space Marines. Chaos Marines are Chaos for a reason. Did they spent 10.000 years doing nothing in the warp? I know, for someones they didn't spent really 10.000 years but less time. But for the same reasons, many others could have spent 100.000 years or more in the Warp. Are the Dark Mechanicus fans of Transformers and they only do Dino-bots?

The "Everything need to have been done already to fit in the universe!" approach is was killing the creative freedom of Warhammer. If something wasn't done 20 years ago isn't good enough? Bah!

The tank needs rotting flesh, sores, dripping infected eyes etc etc. Some green stuff may be needed, or some third party bitz company will have to make them.

 Galas wrote:
I actually like the curved hull. I'm bored of box-tanks for Space Marines. Chaos Marines are Chaos for a reason. Did they spent 10.000 years doing nothing in the warp? I know, for someones they didn't spent really 10.000 years but less time. But for the same reasons, many others could have spent 100.000 years or more in the Warp. Are the Dark Mechanicus fans of Transformers and they only do Dino-bots?

The "Everything need to have been done already to fit in the universe!" approach is was killing the creative freedom of Warhammer. If something wasn't done 20 years ago isn't good enough? Bah!

Creative freedom is what killed whfb and what will eventually slay 40k.

FudgeDumper wrote:

 Galas wrote:
I actually like the curved hull. I'm bored of box-tanks for Space Marines. Chaos Marines are Chaos for a reason. Did they spent 10.000 years doing nothing in the warp? I know, for someones they didn't spent really 10.000 years but less time. But for the same reasons, many others could have spent 100.000 years or more in the Warp. Are the Dark Mechanicus fans of Transformers and they only do Dino-bots?

The "Everything need to have been done already to fit in the universe!" approach is was killing the creative freedom of Warhammer. If something wasn't done 20 years ago isn't good enough? Bah!

Creative freedom is what killed whfb and what will eventually slay 40k.

They killed WHFB for many reasons. They have now much more creative freedom yeah, but that wasn't the main one.

I actually think lack of creative freedom and stagnation was what led to warhammer getting into the slump that ultimately led to AoS. I think it might've been a bit overboard though, and am glad to see 40k taking a more measured approach to expansion, both in the sense of new additions to the game and new lore and story elements.

Though again, we are still discussing the fact a space marine faction has a tank that can't be described as "a box but with ____"

The current 40k and AoS lore is a sea of gak produced by oblivious and self important writers who have no reins.

Is a universe written and supported by a Multinational Business. It isn't written to have narrative quality and consistence. Thats why the overall quality has droped. But that isn't something new. Where have you been the past 20 years?

FudgeDumper wrote:
The current 40k and AoS lore is a sea of gak produced by oblivious and self important writers who have no reins.

Looking back over the last two years, 40k lore is in a good place. Progress is actually being made and things that aren't rehashes are occurring. So I can say taking the reigns off finally has been a good thing.

It is usually when the business side starts giving direction that abd lore tends to come out. Armies being made into mary sues because the lore is basically propaganda for why you should buy that faction, or primaris marines because people want the space marine version of space marines.

Can't say I agree that 40k lore is in a good place. The Primaris were handled horrifically, everything in the universe is attributed to either Cawl or Guilliman and Abaddon appears to have lost his importance because of the 30k-style Primarch-centric plotline.

Anyway, I really like the tank. Very keen to see it in DG green.

looks in some ways a LIIIIITLE like this tank here:

The tank might look better without the snow plow on the front. It does look like there's some mechanical ruffage behind it, so that might break up the simpler shape of the rest of the vehicle.

 Marshal Loss wrote:
Can't say I agree that 40k lore is in a good place. The Primaris were handled horrifically, everything in the universe is attributed to either Cawl or Guilliman and Abaddon appears to have lost his importance because of the 30k-style Primarch-centric plotline.

Anyway, I really like the tank. Very keen to see it in DG green.

Well... frankly Abaddon loses him importance the moment you start really thinking about things too much. He isn't Horus and will never be able to live up to his title and the demon primarchs were more than he could ever hope to be even when they were still humans, much less now. His "leadership" is entirely dependent on him being an nonthreatening neutral choice none of the chaos gods of primarchs object to, so he can lead a semi unified crusade. Now that they finally got rid of the pylons and Cadia... they've gone back to doing their own thing, focusing on spreading their influence. He isn't needed or particularly wanted now, and his crusade will slowly fall apart.

As far as Cawl and RG go, I like both. I really enjoy seeing one of the primarchs come back and have to face what the imperium has become. As for Cawl, he is the first mechanicus character to feature heavily in modern lore or have a model, and he is an interesting one to boot. They also aren't being portrayed as perfect or without fault. Extremely powerful and influential yes, but also flawed. Which again is better than GW has done with lore before (draigo).

The primaris well... I can't say I love them but I enjoy the potential for more variation in the SM line up that isn't just a retcon. Their personal lore is positively restrained compared to what GW has pushed before. I also like the potential friction, you can't tell me the idea of normal ultramarines having to accept they really aren't the best around isn't fun. These newcomers are not just better but have their spiritual lieges' blessing to boot. So that's a fun angle.

In short, I think the lore is in a good place. it's got more teeth in it than it has in years, and I actually want to see where they go from here. Which is a sentiment I haven't really expressed in quite a while.

Just realized this post was massivley off topic, sorry!

BrianDavion wrote:
looks in some ways a LIIIIITLE like this tank here:

Spoiler:

Particularly if you spun it around and changed which side was front. The mortar could even be angled about the same

SilverAlien wrote:
As far as Cawl and RG go, I like both.

Yeah, you could have left it at that. I also don't think you understand the role of Abaddon, or simply don't like the more traditional 2nd-3rd ed lore. This is, however, off topic.

Anyway, on topic:



I'm hopeful that the possible transport variant is worth taking over a rhino. Wonder what the capacity is.

I'd be dissappointed if a nurglite transport's number wasn't 7 (I've also heard the number 7 being used for the stats for the new Primaris tank, I could see them making the number equal)

transport varient is certainly an intreasting thought, seems to me that making it an ARMED transport might be worth it, give chaos a razorback answer.

I could also see it not having active weapons but instead some sort of radius effect.

I think the cannon is just hidden behind the Plague Marine with the angle at which the tank is going. Also, as we've seen a rhino in the same picture as the new tank, I'm guessing rhinos will still be our transport. If the tank has multiple variants, I'm expecting they will be different gun loadouts

Sturmtiger aside, I like how it looks like someone THOUGHT, hey, build it rounded on the front, it'll go faster/be harder to shoot/carry more ammo that way. Like a bizarre WW1 contraption. I like it.

I actually despise the new tank Maybe its just the horrible angels of the photos, but it looks like someone took a stick of butter (actually greenstuff) and just... dropped it onto the tank and shoved a IG/oop Orc Lobba on the back (reusing old casts ftw)... and don't get me started on that piddly little 'nurgle's emblem but a smoke launcher' or whatever it is sticking out of the hull on the front above the snow plow. Until the 360 view comes out, they've entirely lost me on that tank. However, the teased multi-part plague marines and also the termies are still keeping me excited