DarkStarSabre wrote: Can I just say how incredibly disappointed I am in all of this?
Brand New Marneus Calgar! (The fourth version of him!) Oooh, ahhh.
And here's Generic Chaos Lord Bob Nobody for him to smush!
Had the opportunity to drop two bombs on us and show us a new Abaddon and make us all drop our jaws....but nope. Generic Chaos Lord Bob Nobody.
Oh but look, here's a video with loads of Raptors! - yay, useless assault troops with 1 attack base!
Bleh.
Well, now that we know how the campaign ends - haha Feth You Chaos - let's look at the other interesting things.
GSC Bikers - very nice. Slap in the face to IG players who have wanted human scale bikes forever when they realise the one unit that could use these are Index only. Sad days.
Daemons - I'm neutral. Bout time they got rid of the odd units that were still finecast and fugly but I really want to see more Slaanesh stuff. Getting a bit antsy here.
Read the article.
That chaos nobody is supposed to drop the planet for the warmaster in 80 days. Probably not gonna happen so abaddon will come to Vigilus to try and break it
H.B.M.C. wrote: What regular Marine releases came out this year?
Oh, and blindbox minis made for the Japenese market that were out ages ago but are now suddenly available everywhere in now way constitutes a "regular" Marine release.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yes, we thought that Slaanesh would go the way of the Squats.
Little did we know that this was all subterfuge to keep us distracted whilst they very slowly made regular Marines less and less prominent, until all marines are Primaris Marines. Next step is just making Primaris Marines into just Marines, with no specific distinction.
Frankly that end result bothers me a lot less than the silly process. Everyone who's not a bit wonko already knows where this is going, skip to the sodding end already.
People thought the Slaanesh release would be made more PG-13, now we have a Daemonette playing a dude’s insides as a harp
Its always amused me in a setting with an actual god of murder, violence and taking the skulls of your victims. That the part some people think needs toning down, is the god of getting loaded and having a good time
H.B.M.C. wrote: But let us not focus on out-of-scale Space Marines (and their equally as out-of-scale soon-to-be-released Traitor counterparts-that-have-totally-always-been-this-big-you-just-didn't-realise-it-ok!!!)
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yes, we thought that Slaanesh would go the way of the Squats.
Little did we know that this was all subterfuge to keep us distracted whilst they very slowly made regular Marines less and less prominent, until all marines are Primaris Marines. Next step is just making Primaris Marines into just Marines, with no specific distinction.
nobody with any sense thought slaanesh was going away
completely ridiculous that they give these names for chaos heroes, i miss the good old days of.... erm the despoiler or konrad curze.
lolman1c wrote: Wait, did someone say female space marines or was that a joke?
The art for the new space marine book/mini-codex has a female character. The hope is that it's a primaris marine so the world can burn. The more likely explanation is that it's an inquisitor or similar who is a major character in the book.
Your eyes and ears do not decieve you! This special celebratory Noise Marine brings the classic design to life as never seen before and will be in stores in time for Christmas. Rock on!
lolman1c wrote: Wait, did someone say female space marines or was that a joke?
The art for the new space marine book/mini-codex has a female character. The hope is that it's a primaris marine so the world can burn. The more likely explanation is that it's an inquisitor or similar who is a major character in the book.
You got a screen cap? I can't find it.
As I said before, it’s just the main character of the novel, a female serf.
H.B.M.C. wrote: What regular Marine releases came out this year?
Oh, and blindbox minis made for the Japenese market that were out ages ago but are now suddenly available everywhere in now way constitutes a "regular" Marine release.
Yes it does.
Heroes series 1 came out in Japan in September 2017, that is after the Primaris marines, thus it is a fact they are newer. Series 2 came out a few months ago so again, newer than and after Primaris marines.
Series 1 have just had a regular release in GW shops and independents worldwide, series 2 will get some at some point.
In short you are wrong, and the main GW studio is still making normal loyalist marines.
As if FW.
No amount of goalpost changing and ‘cause reason’ can change that
Your eyes and ears do not decieve you! This special celebratory Noise Marine brings the classic design to life as never seen before and will be in stores in time for Christmas. Rock on!
Oh it’s beautiful! And the video was shot upstairs in The Sal, one of my fave pubs!
Nope. He's just to busy looking and worse he's a marine-let. Having gone Primaris I can't go back to tiny marines. Hopefully, when Emperors Children finally do come out they'll have parts worth bits ordering; because if their manlets I won't buying entire kits, then.
And you know this, how? The new CSM from BF are almost as big as a Primaris. This guy could be scaled to them for all you know.
Pic for reference
Its probably best to just ignore people that say manlet/marinelet at this point since they can't be bothered to research and find that the new chaos minis only stand like 2mm shorter than their precious Cawl Monkey Marines. Which makes perfect sense until Fabius designs his own Monkey Marines or GW decides that the warp gives them and their armor growth spurts on top of the normal mutations you see.
I was joking calling them manlets I know their bigger. But being 2mm shorter than Primaris is the same as the Deathguard and Thousand Son models, and at this scale its significant. Look at the picture you posted and look how thin that CSM limbs and torso are in comparison. If your happy with them that's fine. The Primaris being taller with larger limbs and broader torsos in my opinion have better looking proportions.
It’s been an incredible year for long-time Warhammer fans – who’d have thought we’d ever see another Squat, or plastic Rogue Traders? – and it’s about to get even better. Here’s the news, courtesy of Warhammer 40,000-themed band Deep Strike:
Your eyes and ears have not deceived you. That was, indeed, a Noise Marine on a bright green flock base – reborn for a new generation. Seriously, get a good look:
This special celebratory miniature is based on Jes Goodwin’s original sketches and classic Noise Marine models, and will be on shelves in time for Christmas.
That Noise Marine is a one-off right? That's not a new unit. That's a single mini, right?
robbienw wrote: In short you are wrong, and the main GW studio is still making normal loyalist marines.
They aren't. The blindbox Marines are not a regular Marine release. They have never been a regular Marine release. They will never be a regular Marine release. They're not even the same scale, being slightly taller than actual regular Marines.
They were made to test a market, using a type of sales strategy that works well in Japan (and among kids toys these day, for some inexplicable reason*). They proved popular enough that GW decided they could sell them in their general stores.
But they are no more a 'regular' Marine release, or proof that regular Marines will carry on, than the beginner kits using the old Ork vehicles are examples of GW keeping ancient Ork models (and Terminators from the 2nd Ed Space Hulk days) in regular production. They're not regular releases by any stretch of the imagination. They are specifically designed for a type of market, to appeal to a specific demographic of shopper (much like the Conquest magazines), but people buy them anyway.
*I'm not kidding. Watch kids toy ads these days, especially girls toys. So many blindbox collectable things. It's weird.
Your eyes and ears do not decieve you! This special celebratory Noise Marine brings the classic design to life as never seen before and will be in stores in time for Christmas. Rock on!
My god that mini is awesome, its so metal; and that video with Duncan.....
This has to mean new noise marines are pretty soon in the future right? I'd imagine some people might be upset if they are waiting for the actual release and GW only releases this one
Earlier they said they had a couple more things to show. We get the noise marine. What’s the last one? Maybe something to do with Sisters.
Marneus does nothing for me but the other reveals have been pretty great. The bikers are especially cool.
PiñaColada wrote: This has to mean new noise marines are pretty soon in the future right? I'd imagine some people might be upset if they are waiting for the actual release and GW only releases this one
I mean, it wouldn't exactly surprise me. Or if they bring out new noise marines "soon" after, like 18 months.
tneva82 wrote: Well that explains why 40k points are so bad. They are actually stupid enough to use formula for points
Nothing there suggests they only use a formula(e) for points.
But the moment you use formula at all means your points are screwed. Formulas don't work. Proven so often these days even beginner developers know they are worthless and indeed do harm with no good
tneva82 wrote: Well that explains why 40k points are so bad. They are actually stupid enough to use formula for points
Well, the alternative is points being plucked from the air on no basis but the author's opinion/bias. Using a formula provides a consistent baseline for ALL models. They can then playtest and vary the points from there.
Or you know through playtesting and looking value of model. Obviously there's other options than bad.
Formula always creates wrong results. Fact. You only use it if you don't care about balance and don't want to do actual games development
They’re a starting point, though. Any points system will have some sort of rules underlying it all. Even if you don’t write anything explicitly, you’ll still use some sort of formula unconsciously when you first assign a number for playtesting.
I still believe this means that new EC and noise marines are on the horizon. Not the immediate future perhaps but anything other than that would be confirmed as a one-off. Maybe it's a year out, who knows?
At the same time, they have to release some new models between GSC and SoB. It can't all be primaris lieutenants, right?
Marneus Calgar is the original and perhaps most iconic Space Marine character, having been with us in one form or another since the very first edition – so it’s only fitting that this venerable hero is the first to be reborn as a Primaris Space Marine. This incredible new model combines the modern aesthetic of the Primaris Marines with the classic elements of the venerable character.
The official announcement above sure makes is sound like Calgar won't be the last characters to be Primarised. Pretty much any of the current resin characters are fair game. I can't imagine they'd redo Logan Grimnar though since he's already plastic and has Stormrider.
ingtaer wrote: Needs more Bolt Thrower. gak hard imagine they gave away a cd with WD back in the day.
That is hard to imagine. My bolt thrower albums were cassette tapes.
Mention not the cassette, it is a secret knowledge passed down. To be frank I would be amazed now adays if many people knew what a cd was let alone cassette, 8-track or Betamax.
Edit; had a look and it was actually a flexidisc, WD 95. How time flies.
Marneus Calgar is the original and perhaps most iconic Space Marine character, having been with us in one form or another since the very first edition – so it’s only fitting that this venerable hero is the first to be reborn as a Primaris Space Marine. This incredible new model combines the modern aesthetic of the Primaris Marines with the classic elements of the venerable character.
The official announcement above sure makes is sound like Calgar won't be the last characters to be Primarised. Pretty much any of the current resin characters are fair game. I can't imagine they'd redo Logan Grimnar though since he's already plastic and has Stormrider.
I can't imagine that Gabriel Seth would be at all for undergoing the process. So they will probably just kill him and replace him with a brand new Flesh Tearer Chapter Master.
Marneus Calgar is the original and perhaps most iconic Space Marine character, having been with us in one form or another since the very first edition – so it’s only fitting that this venerable hero is the first to be reborn as a Primaris Space Marine. This incredible new model combines the modern aesthetic of the Primaris Marines with the classic elements of the venerable character.
The official announcement above sure makes is sound like Calgar won't be the last characters to be Primarised. Pretty much any of the current resin characters are fair game. I can't imagine they'd redo Logan Grimnar though since he's already plastic and has Stormrider.
Good. The current versions are starting to look really dated alongside modern armies. Looking forward to Primaris Azreal, Dante, etc.
Marneus Calgar is the original and perhaps most iconic Space Marine character, having been with us in one form or another since the very first edition – so it’s only fitting that this venerable hero is the first to be reborn as a Primaris Space Marine. This incredible new model combines the modern aesthetic of the Primaris Marines with the classic elements of the venerable character.
The official announcement above sure makes is sound like Calgar won't be the last characters to be Primarised. Pretty much any of the current resin characters are fair game. I can't imagine they'd redo Logan Grimnar though since he's already plastic and has Stormrider.
Logan, probably not, but Ragnar's among the oldest GW models still out there, if I am not mistaken.
Marneus Calgar is the original and perhaps most iconic Space Marine character, having been with us in one form or another since the very first edition – so it’s only fitting that this venerable hero is the first to be reborn as a Primaris Space Marine. This incredible new model combines the modern aesthetic of the Primaris Marines with the classic elements of the venerable character.
The official announcement above sure makes is sound like Calgar won't be the last characters to be Primarised. Pretty much any of the current resin characters are fair game. I can't imagine they'd redo Logan Grimnar though since he's already plastic and has Stormrider.
Oo.. An even fatter Grimnar Claus, with more engines on his sleigh and extra wolves to pull it. The Santa Wolves version of an Exalted Seeker Chariot.
I Still have the White Dwarf from the original release
(with a World Eater on the cover, which is some kind of a paradox...)
and 6 of the original metal figures...
I am very impressed by these models. Cult overall is amazing, but I don't think the line has one single not-good sculpt. Also I am sure many will use these models for conversions, for sure Ork and Guard players. Calgar and the Guard are amazing. I like the pose and the general model of the Chaos Lord, they over-designed only the jump pack this time, but is easily modified. Not completely sold on the "face", too.
Also - is there someone left with the delusion that smaller marines will not go? I mean it should have been evident from the first new chaos sculpts but... well.
Calgar and his Honour Guard are magnificent. Calgar looks huge, and I like that the Gauntlets look more archaic than the rest of the armour, that's nice attention to detail. I'd like to see a whole box for those Honour Guard too.
I like Haarken, though I'm not entirely sold on his head situation, I think it might be the goggle look.
I don't really care for the GSC stuff, though it seems in keeping with their aesthetic so that's good.
Love Karanak and the Fleshhounds, I'll have to find someone to buy the Slaanesh half of Wrath and Rapture from me, becuase I still want none of that.
The Noise Marine looks really cool too, he's a nice call back
The best part about Marneus Calgar having an helmet is that when they redo Primaris-Azrael maybe he will be able to wear the Lion's Helmet too. Or at least have a fancy feathered helmet.
Galas wrote: The best part about Marneus Calgar having an helmet is that when they redo Primaris-Azrael maybe he will be able to wear the Lion's Helmet too. Or at least have a fancy feathered helmet.
That's definitely a good point. I always hated that there wasn't an Azrael wearing the Lion Helm.
Galas wrote: The best part about Marneus Calgar having an helmet is that when they redo Primaris-Azrael maybe he will be able to wear the Lion's Helmet too. Or at least have a fancy feathered helmet.
Wait... I missed that. Where can we find a picture of Calgar with his helmet on?
Galas wrote: The best part about Marneus Calgar having an helmet is that when they redo Primaris-Azrael maybe he will be able to wear the Lion's Helmet too. Or at least have a fancy feathered helmet.
Wait... I missed that. Where can we find a picture of Calgar with his helmet on?
Galas wrote: The best part about Marneus Calgar having an helmet is that when they redo Primaris-Azrael maybe he will be able to wear the Lion's Helmet too. Or at least have a fancy feathered helmet.
Galas wrote: The best part about Marneus Calgar having an helmet is that when they redo Primaris-Azrael maybe he will be able to wear the Lion's Helmet too. Or at least have a fancy feathered helmet.
Wait... I missed that. Where can we find a picture of Calgar with his helmet on?
Galas wrote: The best part about Marneus Calgar having an helmet is that when they redo Primaris-Azrael maybe he will be able to wear the Lion's Helmet too. Or at least have a fancy feathered helmet.
I really like the bikes. Those are some good models. Its not enough for me to want to make a GSC army, as I already have a lot on my plate. But those are some fine minis. GSC still need their pimp mobile though.
I love the GSC stuff. I don't play full 40k any more but I have an ever expanding GSC kill team that I've really been enjoying and it's going to be tough not to pick up the bikers just for painting.
Galas wrote: The best part about Marneus Calgar having an helmet is that when they redo Primaris-Azrael maybe he will be able to wear the Lion's Helmet too. Or at least have a fancy feathered helmet.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: I really like the bikes. Those are some good models. Its not enough for me to want to make a GSC army, as I already have a lot on my plate. But those are some fine minis.
GSC still need their pimp mobile though.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: I really like the bikes. Those are some good models. Its not enough for me to want to make a GSC army, as I already have a lot on my plate. But those are some fine minis.
GSC still need their pimp mobile though.
You get a MOON BUGGY and GENESTEALER BIKER GANGS.
And still you want pimp mobiles?
Geez you can't please everyone I guess...
To stay in line with the new aesthetic, it will be a stretch Hummer on monster truck wheels.
What an awesome selection of releases! I must have that noise marine and the gsc bikers are fantastic. Even the usually boring ultramarines look good, those honour guard are especially badass.
The warlord does look a little unbalanced but when it eventually makes its way into Titanicus scale I will be adding it to the collection anyway just for the huge gun
The GSC bike and buggy are awesome, will have to get the local group to agree some rules for using them (we play using the age of darkness rule set)
The titan is a surprise, I had assumed we'd see new titans in AT scale first then the popular stuff called up.
Calgar, ugh. The last thing I wanted to see was the primaris-action of normal marine characters. Might pick up the terminator version before it disappears.
The noise marine, all I can see if the high heels.
Tamereth wrote: The GSC bike and buggy are awesome, will have to get the local group to agree some rules for using them (we play using the age of darkness rule set)
The titan is a surprise, I had assumed we'd see new titans in AT scale first then the popular stuff called up.
Calgar, ugh. The last thing I wanted to see was the primaris-action of normal marine characters. Might pick up the terminator version before it disappears.
The noise marine, all I can see if the high heels.
He's got a salon perfect mane and Leopard print armor and you're hung up on his hooves?
OH, now that's what I'm talking about. Sniper bikers are cute but silly, that actually looks good, with some nice world building touches.
"Sniper biker" works better than you might think, considering she's parked her bike to aim and fire. Also worth noting there's only one in the unit, suggesting it's a unit upgrade of some type.
OH, now that's what I'm talking about.
Sniper bikers are cute but silly, that actually looks good, with some nice world building touches.
"Sniper biker" works better than you might think, considering she's parked her bike to aim and fire. Also worth noting there's only one in the unit, suggesting it's a unit upgrade of some type.
Apparently she's a special character, I don't think she'll be in the box. But yes, at least she's idling at a stop, whereas two of the bikers are somehow accelerating without operating the throttle...
OH, now that's what I'm talking about.
Sniper bikers are cute but silly, that actually looks good, with some nice world building touches.
"Sniper biker" works better than you might think, considering she's parked her bike to aim and fire. Also worth noting there's only one in the unit, suggesting it's a unit upgrade of some type.
Community added a picture of the Quad.
The vibration from being idol alone would make the task futile. It looks awesome though.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Luciferian wrote: Apparently she's a special character, I don't think she'll be in the box. But yes, at least she's idling at a stop, whereas two of the bikers are somehow accelerating without operating the throttle...
Luciferian wrote: Apparently she's a special character, I don't think she'll be in the box. But yes, at least she's idling at a stop, whereas two of the bikers are somehow accelerating without operating the throttle...
Or coasting with the clutch pulled in.
They're not operating the clutch either, one of them is even pulling a wheelie! As someone who rides a motorcycle every day those are noticeable, but forgivable details. It would be boring if they were all using the same arms for their weapons.
H.B.M.C. wrote: That Noise Marine is a one-off right? That's not a new unit. That's a single mini, right?
robbienw wrote: In short you are wrong, and the main GW studio is still making normal loyalist marines.
They aren't. The blindbox Marines are not a regular Marine release. They have never been a regular Marine release. They will never be a regular Marine release. They're not even the same scale, being slightly taller than actual regular Marines.
They were made to test a market, using a type of sales strategy that works well in Japan (and among kids toys these day, for some inexplicable reason*). They proved popular enough that GW decided they could sell them in their general stores.
But they are no more a 'regular' Marine release, or proof that regular Marines will carry on, than the beginner kits using the old Ork vehicles are examples of GW keeping ancient Ork models (and Terminators from the 2nd Ed Space Hulk days) in regular production. They're not regular releases by any stretch of the imagination. They are specifically designed for a type of market, to appeal to a specific demographic of shopper (much like the Conquest magazines), but people buy them anyway.
*I'm not kidding. Watch kids toy ads these days, especially girls toys. So many blindbox collectable things. It's weird.
No, they are. They are available in GW stores, you can make a legal squad out of them, and many of the parts are interchangeable with other regular marines. I have swapped bits between the and normal marines with was, so I know this to be factually correct The scale has been upped slightly, by making the legs and torso slightly longer but it hasn’t made them totally incompatible with normal marines. It’s the same as what they did with the deathwatch kit, who are also compatible with regular marines.
They are regular space marines, they were designed by the main studio, and they were released after the main Primaris release so are newer models. They have the warhammer 40,000 logo on the boxes and they are citadel miniatures.
All of these things are facts, it doesn’t matter if you don’t like them.
They also decided to release them worldwide due to popular demand, which should tell you something; people still want classic marine designs. If GW are sensible, and I believe they are, then they will keep providing people who want them with new or updated classic marine models, because they want to make money. This I am certain we will still future relates of classic marines, even if there aren’t general squad box releases for a few years while Primaris take the main spotlight.
tneva82 wrote: Well that explains why 40k points are so bad. They are actually stupid enough to use formula for points
Well, the alternative is points being plucked from the air on no basis but the author's opinion/bias. Using a formula provides a consistent baseline for ALL models. They can then playtest and vary the points from there.
Or you know through playtesting and looking value of model. Obviously there's other options than bad.
Formula always creates wrong results. Fact. You only use it if you don't care about balance and don't want to do actual games development
Playtesting doesn't give you a place to start from, and still requires a potentially initially flawed human start point. Again, you use the formula to establish a baseline points cost, THEN you playtest and adjust as necessary.
Formulas by definition don't produce wrong results. They only produce an output based on the formula. How is it fact that they always create wrong results?
Luciferian wrote: Apparently she's a special character, I don't think she'll be in the box. But yes, at least she's idling at a stop, whereas two of the bikers are somehow accelerating without operating the throttle...
Or coasting with the clutch pulled in.
They're not operating the clutch either, one of them is even pulling a wheelie! As someone who rides a motorcycle every day those are noticeable, but forgivable details. It would be boring if they were all using the same arms for their weapons.
The guy pulling a wheele is using the throttle not the clutch though, and the other model doesn't have the clutch in, but it's 28mm so I was gona forgive it until I saw the quad guy operating the clutch , could be in neutral for some idiotic reason (lets be honest these are all gona die quick anyway ) but it's all forgivable since shooting and operating a bike is very Hollywood anyway. The bikes look like they have gas tanks big enough to get them stranded on the front line anyway, what has me more curious are the demo pack looking things on each saddle, I wonder if these guys will get to toss some of those bad boys.
I don’t think it is. Look at the plain plastic model right next to it with the ripped metal and spike on the front, which looks like a new Warbuggy. I think the trakks are back.
Luciferian wrote: Apparently she's a special character, I don't think she'll be in the box. But yes, at least she's idling at a stop, whereas two of the bikers are somehow accelerating without operating the throttle...
The guy pulling a wheele is using the throttle not the clutch though, and the other model doesn't have the clutch in, but it's 28mm so I was gona forgive it until I saw the quad guy operating the clutch , could be in neutral for some idiotic reason (lets be honest these are all gona die quick anyway ) but it's all forgivable since shooting and operating a bike is very Hollywood anyway. The bikes look like they have gas tanks big enough to get them stranded on the front line anyway, what has me more curious are the demo pack looking things on each saddle, I wonder if these guys will get to toss some of those bad boys.
My assumption is that they represent grenades, but it would be cool (though somewhat overkill) if they could each take demolition charges like Acolyte Hybrids can.
I don’t think it is. Look at the plain plastic model right next to it with the ripped metal and spike on the front, which looks like a new Warbuggy. I think the trakks are back.
Luciferian wrote: Apparently she's a special character, I don't think she'll be in the box. But yes, at least she's idling at a stop, whereas two of the bikers are somehow accelerating without operating the throttle...
Cool - where was the info please
Hmm, I'm trying to find it. I know I read it somewhere but there's been a lot of updates, discussion and speculation about the weekender so I don't remember where.
I don’t think it is. Look at the plain plastic model right next to it with the ripped metal and spike on the front, which looks like a new Warbuggy. I think the trakks are back.
It’s a conversion. All the parts from the front half are just warbike parts.
I don’t think it is. Look at the plain plastic model right next to it with the ripped metal and spike on the front, which looks like a new Warbuggy. I think the trakks are back.
It’s a conversion. All the parts from the front half are just warbike parts.
Possibly, perhaps even likely. However, plenty of kits share parts. A picture of a razorback could be discounted as a rhino conversion, for example.
I don’t think it is. Look at the plain plastic model right next to it with the ripped metal and spike on the front, which looks like a new Warbuggy. I think the trakks are back.
It’s a conversion. All the parts from the front half are just warbike parts.
Possibly, perhaps even likely. However, plenty of kits share parts. A picture of a razorback could be discounted as a rhino conversion, for example.
Yeah, but those kits didn’t come out like 8 years apart. And the sprues are cut in a way that you can just add the turret, unlike the way the warbike sprue is cut so that it only makes warbikes.
Khahandran wrote: Playtesting doesn't give you a place to start from, and still requires a potentially initially flawed human start point. Again, you use the formula to establish a baseline points cost, THEN you playtest and adjust as necessary.
Formulas by definition don't produce wrong results. They only produce an output based on the formula. How is it fact that they always create wrong results?
When the Fellowship game came out in the early aughts, I could still get the value for LotR minis within a few points using the original formula from Rogue Trader (1987). I'm sure they have tweaked that formula numerous times, but that they still use it in some form or other for the starting point of all new models. Playtesting is indeed where they find out if they are in the ballpark since the original formula never dealt with higher WS/BS models being more brutal with better weapons.
In other news, I can see getting some GSC minis. Is it easy to do them closer to still human cultists and less hybridy?
Luciferian wrote: Apparently she's a special character, I don't think she'll be in the box. But yes, at least she's idling at a stop, whereas two of the bikers are somehow accelerating without operating the throttle...
Cool - where was the info please
This is from Bolter and Chainsword:
The GSC bikers including the quad. Word (according to someone asking the painters and it then being relayed to the GSCFB group) is that the sniper biker is a character, and the bike kit is 4 bikes plus the quad
In other news, I can see getting some GSC minis. Is it easy to do them closer to still human cultists and less hybridy?
Depends on the models. Neophytes are early generation hybrids and are the most human, Acolytes are later generation hybrids and the models are much closer to genestealers, and past that you've pretty much got full on mutant freaks and purestrain genestealers. If you wanted to you could do an army of mostly Neophytes, which would play kind of similarly to guard.
Luciferian wrote: Apparently she's a special character, I don't think she'll be in the box. But yes, at least she's idling at a stop, whereas two of the bikers are somehow accelerating without operating the throttle...
Cool - where was the info please
This is from Bolter and Chainsword:
The GSC bikers including the quad. Word (according to someone asking the painters and it then being relayed to the GSCFB group) is that the sniper biker is a character, and the bike kit is 4 bikes plus the quad
I don’t think it is. Look at the plain plastic model right next to it with the ripped metal and spike on the front, which looks like a new Warbuggy. I think the trakks are back.
It’s a conversion. All the parts from the front half are just warbike parts.
Possibly, perhaps even likely. However, plenty of kits share parts. A picture of a razorback could be discounted as a rhino conversion, for example.
Yeah, but those kits didn’t come out like 8 years apart. And the sprues are cut in a way that you can just add the turret, unlike the way the warbike sprue is cut so that it only makes warbikes.
Also, for anyone who assembled the old Imperial Guard Chimera and Leman Russ chassis- the tread on that warbike conversion is instantly recognisable as the same treads and road wheels as found in those old vehicle kits. They haven't been produced since 5th edition!
No older IG player forgets assembling those blasted things- the tracks never quite stretched far enough to avoid leaving a small gap somewhere...
In other news, I can see getting some GSC minis. Is it easy to do them closer to still human cultists and less hybridy?
Depends on the models. Neophytes are early generation hybrids and are the most human, Acolytes are later generation hybrids and the models are much closer to genestealers, and past that you've pretty much got full on mutant freaks and purestrain genestealers. If you wanted to you could do an army of mostly Neophytes, which would play kind of similarly to guard.
You have it backwards actually. Early hybrids, 1st and 2nd generation are acolytes while the 3rd and finally 4th are the most human looking neophyte hybrids. The 4th generation that pass as human then give birth to purestrains.
"No I don't want to register my copy of Marneus' Maps... no... why did the program quit? My shortcuts are gone! Why did we even buy this thing!!!???!!!"
Luciferian wrote: Ah, my mistake. That's confusing, I thought it was a progression from human to purestrain.
It's an understandable mistake, the brood cycle is hilariously counter intuitive. Once they finally breed to a point most human, THEN they give birth to a perfect alien, and the parents see the child as a human through a hypnotic bond with it rather then seeing what it really is. The abberants pop up mid way as horrible mistakes lol.
Haighus wrote: Also, for anyone who assembled the old Imperial Guard Chimera and Leman Russ chassis- the tread on that warbike conversion is instantly recognisable as the same treads and road wheels as found in those old vehicle kits. They haven't been produced since 5th edition!
No older IG player forgets assembling those blasted things- the tracks never quite stretched far enough to avoid leaving a small gap somewhere...
Fair enough, I hadn't noticed! Which is weird, as my desk is covered in old leman russ kits at the moment. Upgrading some old tanks to the new format, as the las/bolter layout is great now.
H.B.M.C. wrote: "No I don't want to register my copy of Marneus' Maps... no... why did the program quit? My shortcuts are gone! Why did we even buy this thing!!!???!!!"
Right.....
*type type tap tap tappity tap*
Our. Base. To. Imperial. HQ.
*working *BEEP What.....but....that’s.....that’s the directions from the Take Way to the Pub? SODDING AUTOPREDICT
Luciferian wrote: Ah, my mistake. That's confusing, I thought it was a progression from human to purestrain.
Honestly the way I remember it is by remembering that it’s the way round you wouldn’t think.
Apparently so! I haven't read the fluff in a while so it's not fresh in my mind, but I just built and painted a bunch of neophytes, Acolytes, aberrants and purestrains, and the models have a nice, logical progression from the neophytes through to actual genestealers with more and more genestealer details popping up along the way. I assumed that's the way the generations go because it makes perfect sense, but who needs sense?
lolman1c wrote: So is this it or anything more tmrw? Apart from the GSC stuff it's not exactly the "biggest weekend ever". XD
Yeaah... If that was it I'm kinda disappointed. Calgar and his honour guard have rules in the campaign book, but it would be weird if that was all the new units in it. (Genestealer Cults presumably will get their own codex.)
The GSC stuff is great but it's easy to feel a bit disappointed when a lot of us expected something a bit bigger like abaddon or angron/fulgrim.. That's obviously our own fault for being too hyped but Calgar feels a bit safe and boring IMO.
The chaos lord promises to take vigilus in 80 days according to WHC so some people are speculating that when he fails Abaddon shows up and that the 80 days is a countdown to his release. If that were to be true I guess it's 80 days after the lord is actually released. We haven't heard a date for that right?
I wonder what GWs amazing fluff reason is that Calgar can no longer ride in his own customized land raider simply because he put on new armor. Amazing sales team logic! They'd sell more models if they ditched the incredibly stupid segmentation. A military force should all be able to use the same transports as Primaris can fit fine inside the same ones marines use and vice versa.
The chapter master can't request his own ride, lol such dumb fluff.
PiñaColada wrote: The GSC stuff is great but it's easy to feel a bit disappointed when a lot of us expected something a bit bigger like abaddon or angron/fulgrim.. That's obviously our own fault for being too hyped but Calgar feels a bit safe and boring IMO.
The chaos lord promises to take vigilus in 80 days according to WHC so some people are speculating that when he fails Abaddon shows up and that the 80 days is a countdown to his release. If that were to be true I guess it's 80 days after the lord is actually released. We haven't heard a date for that right?
It would work out for another string of releases leading into a summer global campaign to take Vigilus.
From a fluff point of view, I wonder if Guilliman’s return will see Calgar take greater personal risk?
After all. The survival of his Chapter is now more secure than ever, and he no longer has to worry about every tiny detail. He’s free to be a fighter, concerned with the immediate theatre of war.
That’s very different to being entirely in charge of everything, all the time.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: From a fluff point of view, I wonder if Guilliman’s return will see Calgar take greater personal risk?
After all. The survival of his Chapter is now more secure than ever, and he no longer has to worry about every tiny detail. He’s free to be a fighter, concerned with the immediate theatre of war.
That’s very different to being entirely in charge of everything, all the time.
I think part of the recent fluff is calgar was getting kind of insecure about how he was running things, with guillaman not being this perfect dude they all worshipped and him thinking guillaman wasnt happy with him (by taking sicarius along to do things instead of him, though iirc its more cause sicarius reminds guillaman of some dude he used to know) so he might be somewhat more eager to prove himself.
Wow, Marneus got really tragic when the big boss Guilliman woke up and brought a load of primaris, because the old guys obviously didnt cut it.
Now, this transformation to primaris scream desperate attention seeking.
Like Guilliman was about to hand him a honorary desk job back at macragge, and Calgar came up with the idea to enter the primaris program.
I think as early as 4th they've set up Calgar as Guilliman returned or incarnate. Obviously, the primarchs actually returning changes that story line and I like how they've changed him to fit it in not the whole meeting his hero problem and seeing himself differently.
I don’t think it is. Look at the plain plastic model right next to it with the ripped metal and spike on the front, which looks like a new Warbuggy. I think the trakks are back.
It’s a conversion. All the parts from the front half are just warbike parts.
Possibly, perhaps even likely. However, plenty of kits share parts. A picture of a razorback could be discounted as a rhino conversion, for example.
Yeah, but those kits didn’t come out like 8 years apart. And the sprues are cut in a way that you can just add the turret, unlike the way the warbike sprue is cut so that it only makes warbikes.
Ahem- Ork Battlewagon (well, the turret) and Dunecrawlers.
They could easily make an upgrade kit to make the bikes into buggies.
Arachnofiend wrote: I really hope the new Black Legion guy can be built as a generic Raptor Lord. Would be pretty rude to Night Lords fans to make an HQ that synergizes with their iconic unit and not let them use it.
It's a modern GW plastic character. More than that, it's a name character (The Mighty Skeleto... I mean Worldtaker!). You honestly think the kit will have options. Where have you been these past 2 years?
The Exalted Sorcerer kit came out in 2016, you know.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: From a fluff point of view, I wonder if Guilliman’s return will see Calgar take greater personal risk?
After all. The survival of his Chapter is now more secure than ever, and he no longer has to worry about every tiny detail. He’s free to be a fighter, concerned with the immediate theatre of war.
That’s very different to being entirely in charge of everything, all the time.
I think part of the recent fluff is calgar was getting kind of insecure about how he was running things, with guillaman not being this perfect dude they all worshipped and him thinking guillaman wasnt happy with him (by taking sicarius along to do things instead of him, though iirc its more cause sicarius reminds guillaman of some dude he used to know) so he might be somewhat more eager to prove himself.
He also felt (in Dark Imperium), that he had personally failed while running Macragge.
The odd thing about it is, it seemed like he was rather offended by the idea of Primaris Marines as well as disgruntlement with the new ways. I honestly expected glorious suicide rather than willing conversion to the new reality.
Was there any whisperings of the release date for the GSC models? Likely they'll sally forth with the codex, but I'm not sure I'll be able to wait until January at this rate...
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: From a fluff point of view, I wonder if Guilliman’s return will see Calgar take greater personal risk?
After all. The survival of his Chapter is now more secure than ever, and he no longer has to worry about every tiny detail. He’s free to be a fighter, concerned with the immediate theatre of war.
That’s very different to being entirely in charge of everything, all the time.
Is this what a SM mid life crisis looks like?
I could see this development causing a bit of friction between the two big blue's if Calgar underwent a risky procedure without Guillimans approval. Hopefully GW don't throw away the potential to add a few interesting wrinkles to the relationship between the two.
As for the actual Calgar model, I'm not a huge fan. It has the same issue than the Aggressors, the fists are too big (they're larger than the normal power fists.) The Gravis armour itself is fine, but the comically oversized fists throw off the balance.
Crimson wrote: As for the actual Calgar model, I'm not a huge fan. It has the same issue than the Aggressors, the fists are too big (they're larger than the normal power fists.) The Gravis armour itself is fine, but the comically oversized fists throw off the balance.
Yeah but GW is legally obligated to produce at least one space marine of captain or higher rank with a powerfist raised in the air, per year.
I don’t think it is. Look at the plain plastic model right next to it with the ripped metal and spike on the front, which looks like a new Warbuggy. I think the trakks are back.
It’s a conversion. All the parts from the front half are just warbike parts.
Possibly, perhaps even likely. However, plenty of kits share parts. A picture of a razorback could be discounted as a rhino conversion, for example.
Yeah, but those kits didn’t come out like 8 years apart. And the sprues are cut in a way that you can just add the turret, unlike the way the warbike sprue is cut so that it only makes warbikes.
Ahem- Ork Battlewagon (well, the turret) and Dunecrawlers.
They could easily make an upgrade kit to make the bikes into buggies.
Also, the Wazbom Blastajet - they added a sprue to the old Ork flyer kit to make a 4th variant, and now it's one singe kit (at a higher price).
What if they do the same to the old Warbiker kit? Add a sprue and let people make Trakks and Skorchas in addition to standard Warbikes, and charge extra?
Crimson wrote: As for the actual Calgar model, I'm not a huge fan. It has the same issue than the Aggressors, the fists are too big (they're larger than the normal power fists.) The Gravis armour itself is fine, but the comically oversized fists throw off the balance.
Have they not always been that way - since the first image of him?
Crimson wrote: As for the actual Calgar model, I'm not a huge fan. It has the same issue than the Aggressors, the fists are too big (they're larger than the normal power fists.) The Gravis armour itself is fine, but the comically oversized fists throw off the balance.
Have they not always been that way - since the first image of him?
Indeed; Calgar has always been an ugly little man with oversized hands.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: From a fluff point of view, I wonder if Guilliman’s return will see Calgar take greater personal risk?
After all. The survival of his Chapter is now more secure than ever, and he no longer has to worry about every tiny detail. He’s free to be a fighter, concerned with the immediate theatre of war.
That’s very different to being entirely in charge of everything, all the time.
I think part of the recent fluff is calgar was getting kind of insecure about how he was running things, with guillaman not being this perfect dude they all worshipped and him thinking guillaman wasnt happy with him (by taking sicarius along to do things instead of him, though iirc its more cause sicarius reminds guillaman of some dude he used to know) so he might be somewhat more eager to prove himself.
He also felt (in Dark Imperium), that he had personally failed while running Macragge.
The odd thing about it is, it seemed like he was rather offended by the idea of Primaris Marines as well as disgruntlement with the new ways. I honestly expected glorious suicide rather than willing conversion to the new reality.
You should know by now that any characters or chapters that express doubt or resistance to Primaris come to accept them because GW need people to buy them.
Well, Marneus has taken the plunge, so the way has been paved for the Primarisization of the rest of the space marine line. Now let’s get to it and cut the Primaris pretense out. Completely.
CaptainBetts wrote: Okay. I was there at the event today and summarized all the information I could possibly get into one textdump, which can be found here:
Good fething luck making GSC good "standalone". If they end up being the best single book in the game then people will just run armies that are mostly GSC with Guard artillery.
CaptainBetts wrote: Okay. I was there at the event today and summarized all the information I could possibly get into one textdump, which can be found here:
Cool, thanks for the write up! No mention of any changes to terrain rules?
Not in the main rulebook, no. All the information I got (and things I heard) are on that writeup.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Arachnofiend wrote: Good fething luck making GSC good "standalone". If they end up being the best single book in the game then people will just run armies that are mostly GSC with Guard artillery.
I should clarify - when they said that, they meant more "They won't fall flat on their face and lose if you take pure GSC".
Arachnofiend wrote: Good fething luck making GSC good "standalone". If they end up being the best single book in the game then people will just run armies that are mostly GSC with Guard artillery.
That's part of their book though. The Brood Brothers rule in the Index says you can take a detachment of IG per GSC detachment. It that's part of the book, then so be it, that's what will likely be ran. Hopefully it would be balanced out by IG adjustments and forward thinking by the GSC design team. Of course, that's always up in the air, but I've got some faith in that rumor dump we had not long ago....
Kirasu wrote: I wonder what GWs amazing fluff reason is that Calgar can no longer ride in his own customized land raider simply because he put on new armor. Amazing sales team logic! They'd sell more models if they ditched the incredibly stupid segmentation. A military force should all be able to use the same transports as Primaris can fit fine inside the same ones marines use and vice versa.
The chapter master can't request his own ride, lol such dumb fluff.
CaptainBetts wrote: Okay. I was there at the event today and summarized all the information I could possibly get into one textdump, which can be found here:
Cool, thanks for the write up! No mention of any changes to terrain rules?
Not in the main rulebook, no. All the information I got (and things I heard) are on that writeup.
Sad.. Still it's a great write up, I appreciate the extra mile you went with formatting and proper punctuation. I'm a bit worried about some of the answers, like in regards to soup though. Valrak mentioned that they said that Calgar isn't actually in Gravis armour now but rather something else. He said that they mentioned what the armour was called, but he forgot.. Any chance you heard?
Fayric wrote: Wow, Marneus got really tragic when the big boss Guilliman woke up and brought a load of primaris, because the old guys obviously didnt cut it.
Now, this transformation to primaris scream desperate attention seeking.
Like Guilliman was about to hand him a honorary desk job back at macragge, and Calgar came up with the idea to enter the primaris program.
So sad.
LOL - space wolves will always be secondary to Ultras. You are practically heretics. Don't worry - Russ will be along soon and you can get all giddy and stuff - ride a sleigh or something in the mean time.
PiñaColada wrote: Sad.. Still it's a great write up, I appreciate the extra mile you went with formatting and proper punctuation. I'm a bit worried about some of the answers, like in regards to soup though. Valrak mentioned that they said that Calgar isn't actually in Gravis armour now but rather something else. He said that they mentioned what the armour was called, but he forgot.. Any chance you heard?
I don't remember either, sorry.
Yeah, I like to keep the punctuation and presentation readable, otherwise it'll be hard for someone to process the large amount of information.
PiñaColada wrote: Sad.. Still it's a great write up, I appreciate the extra mile you went with formatting and proper punctuation. I'm a bit worried about some of the answers, like in regards to soup though. Valrak mentioned that they said that Calgar isn't actually in Gravis armour now but rather something else. He said that they mentioned what the armour was called, but he forgot.. Any chance you heard?
I don't remember either, sorry.
Yeah, I like to keep the punctuation and presentation readable, otherwise it'll be hard for someone to process the large amount of information.
Haha, I dread the wall o' texts reddit sometimes churns out. It's still impressive you managed to keep track of all that stuff. Alright, last question. There was no mention of any release dates? Either for the GSC or new chaos or Calgar&co?
PiñaColada wrote: Sad.. Still it's a great write up, I appreciate the extra mile you went with formatting and proper punctuation. I'm a bit worried about some of the answers, like in regards to soup though. Valrak mentioned that they said that Calgar isn't actually in Gravis armour now but rather something else. He said that they mentioned what the armour was called, but he forgot.. Any chance you heard?
I don't remember either, sorry.
Yeah, I like to keep the punctuation and presentation readable, otherwise it'll be hard for someone to process the large amount of information.
Haha, I dread the wall o' texts reddit sometimes churns out. It's still impressive you managed to keep track of all that stuff. Alright, last question. There was no mention of any release dates? Either for the GSC or new chaos or Calgar&co?
I think someone in the audience at the seminar brought up the fact that the Wrath and Rapture video said "December" in it. We know GSC are next, they didn't give us a date though. I imagine either January or early February 2019 based on previous releases (this is my opinion, NOT a fact). No mention of a Chaos release date either.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Did they say when they are going to redo the finecast sets as plastic? Because Orks are missing a lot of their options because of that.
Nothing finecast related was brought up unfortunately - they didn't say anything about bringing back more older kits (it wasn't really asked).
I'm pretty underwhelmed with todays reveals. If you're a gs cult player things are great though. But I expected more chaos reveals, that flying chaos lord suffers from being overdone just like the past raptors. The more subtle look of the blackstone fortress models is better imo. No renders of sisters of battle figures either. I guess I'm only bummed cause none of this stuff is anything I'd be interested in buying. Maybe its a blessing in disguise cause my workload is already full.
Kirasu wrote: I wonder what GWs amazing fluff reason is that Calgar can no longer ride in his own customized land raider simply because he put on new armor. Amazing sales team logic! They'd sell more models if they ditched the incredibly stupid segmentation. A military force should all be able to use the same transports as Primaris can fit fine inside the same ones marines use and vice versa.
The chapter master can't request his own ride, lol such dumb fluff.
10 seconds of brainpower saaaaaaaaaays:
They're going to release a Primaris Landraider down the road so it doesn't matter.
So, are Marneus Calgar and Wotldtaker expected to be standalone clamshell releases, or are we thinking they'll be in a Starter/Campaign box of Ultras vs. New Black Legion?
So apparently it was said in the seminar that normal marines are going nowhere, despite primaris upgrading shenanigans. Be cynical if you want, but thats the official word, so don't expect normal marine kits to disappear anytime soon.
Apparently it was also said that Grey Knights will not be getting primarised at all.
robbienw wrote: So apparently it was said in the seminar that normal marines are going nowhere, despite primaris upgrading shenanigans. Be cynical if you want, but thats the official word, so don't expect normal marine kits to disappear anytime soon.
Apparently it was also said that Grey Knights will not be getting primarised at all.
Your kidding right?
You realize this is the same company that said they would never touch the heresy outside FW, and that they would not make primarchs in 40k.
GW wouldn't be doing their job if they admitted that they were phasing out a line of product until they squeezed every drop of profit out of the old molds.
robbienw wrote: So apparently it was said in the seminar that normal marines are going nowhere, despite primaris upgrading shenanigans. Be cynical if you want, but thats the official word, so don't expect normal marine kits to disappear anytime soon.
Apparently it was also said that Grey Knights will not be getting primarised at all.
Your kidding right?
You realize this is the same company that said they would never touch the heresy outside FW, and that they would not make primarchs in 40k.
GW wouldn't be doing their job if they admitted that they were phasing out a line of product until they squeezed every drop of profit out of the old molds.
I was there at the seminar, and I asked if Grey Knights were getting the primaris treatment myself. I was told a flat "no" (not even a "there aren't any plans for it in the future right now").
Thats the official line, like it or not. Its supported but the recent statement by gw that chapters are still making normal marines.
Things can change as well, give it 5 years from now and the then model design team may be totally fed up with designing samey primaris and decided to revisit normal marines again.
Regardless, i think it means the regular marine line will be going nowhere, even if the near to mid future is new Primaris units.
I was there at the seminar, and I asked if Grey Knights were getting the primaris treatment myself. I was told a flat "no" (not even a "there aren't any plans for it in the future right now").
I would be inclined to take that as a sign that Grey Knights aren't selling well enough to warrant their own Primaris range. They'll likely get around to it once the regular Marine range has been completed, assuming GK haven't just been squatted by then.
I was there at the seminar, and I asked if Grey Knights were getting the primaris treatment myself. I was told a flat "no" (not even a "there aren't any plans for it in the future right now").
I would be inclined to take that as a sign that Grey Knights aren't selling well enough to warrant their own Primaris range. They'll likely get around to it once the regular Marine range has been completed, assuming GK haven't just been squatted by then.
^This, I wouldn't consider Grey Knights an indicator anyway. Taking everything they suggest about future releases at face value is silly. I am sure regular marines are hanging around for the foreseeable future, now define what that means? It's safe to assume it means once the current range stops bringing in an acceptable profit. If they were to suggest normal marines would be phased out at ANY time, sales would drop off a cliff and they would have a nightmare with shareholders.
robbienw wrote: Thats the official line, like it or not. Its supported but the recent statement by gw that chapters are still making normal marines.
Things can change as well, give it 5 years from now and the then model design team may be totally fed up with designing samey primaris and decided to revisit normal marines again.
Regardless, i think it means the regular marine line will be going nowhere, even if the near to mid future is new Primaris units.
I’m just happy seeing these concepts executed by the design team, but a greedier me would probably be wondering where my royalties are, LOL.
Spoiler:
Originally I was hoping for more Dune Buggy design, with a roll cage and stuff, but these will do nicely. Now I'm just hoping for the giant armored suicide bus transport...
Crimson wrote: As for the actual Calgar model, I'm not a huge fan. It has the same issue than the Aggressors, the fists are too big (they're larger than the normal power fists.) The Gravis armour itself is fine, but the comically oversized fists throw off the balance.
Yeah, the Aggressor power first are comically large. But Terminator arms are compatible with them and those power fists look great on them. I'd buy a Calgar to convert, but I hate capes.
robbienw wrote: So apparently it was said in the seminar that normal marines are going nowhere, despite primaris upgrading shenanigans. Be cynical if you want, but thats the official word, so don't expect normal marine kits to disappear anytime soon.
Apparently it was also said that Grey Knights will not be getting primarised at all.
of course they said this... it would be a marketing suicide to say "all your armies are going to be discontinued and half our line will vanish". What they never said is that normal marines will never be phased out. Like when a company like EA or Bethesda says all DLC will be free and then produces a bunch of paid DLC for the game but they call it a different name and said "It's not DLC so it's not free".
Going nowhere suggests it will never be advanced upon in my books.
I was there at the seminar, and I asked if Grey Knights were getting the primaris treatment myself. I was told a flat "no" (not even a "there aren't any plans for it in the future right now").
I would be inclined to take that as a sign that Grey Knights aren't selling well enough to warrant their own Primaris range. They'll likely get around to it once the regular Marine range has been completed, assuming GK haven't just been squatted by then.
^This, I wouldn't consider Grey Knights an indicator anyway. Taking everything they suggest about future releases at face value is silly. I am sure regular marines are hanging around for the foreseeable future, now define what that means? It's safe to assume it means once the current range stops bringing in an acceptable profit. If they were to suggest normal marines would be phased out at ANY time, sales would drop off a cliff and they would have a nightmare with shareholders.
It has nothing to do with being cynical, and everything to do with understanding marketing and sales.
Indeed it it is. Don't ditch a popular line of models, or replace it with a divisive set of models that many hardcore collectors of the replaced line dislike and won't buy, if you want to maintain good sales figures on the line, I'm sure they understand that.
As I said feel free to be cynical if you want. Also feel free to be supercilious if you want
I'm still not convinced oldmarine lore is going to be phased out completely to be replaced by Primaris. I just don't see why they would have bothered to spend resources developing Primaris lore if their only objective was to sell new models.
If all they wanted to do was get people to buy more marines they could have just released Primaris scale marines as new tacticals. Why go through the effort of differentiating them from a branding/lore perspective?
The word from the Vigilus event seems consistent with this viewpoint.
Changed by mind on the biker and buggy. They are really really nice. And lol at those who think that GW claims are a proof that they wont discontinue normal marines down the line. Contact me, i have a Bridge to sell
robbienw wrote: So apparently it was said in the seminar that normal marines are going nowhere, despite primaris upgrading shenanigans. Be cynical if you want, but thats the official word, so don't expect normal marine kits to disappear anytime soon.
Apparently it was also said that Grey Knights will not be getting primarised at all.
of course they said this... it would be a marketing suicide to say "all your armies are going to be discontinued and half our line will vanish". What they never said is that normal marines will never be phased out. Like when a company like EA or Bethesda says all DLC will be free and then produces a bunch of paid DLC for the game but they call it a different name and said "It's not DLC so it's not free".
Going nowhere suggests it will never be advanced upon in my books.
Of course nothing lasts forever, you know you may find 10 to 15 years from now GW may have produced another new type of marine chasing more revenue, and primaris fans will be upset by constant primaris are being squatted trolling
To be fair the line doesn't need to be advanced anymore at the moment, aside from a few units that could do with a redo, its in a pretty good state.
robbienw wrote: So apparently it was said in the seminar that normal marines are going nowhere, despite primaris upgrading shenanigans. Be cynical if you want, but thats the official word, so don't expect normal marine kits to disappear anytime soon.
Apparently it was also said that Grey Knights will not be getting primarised at all.
Your kidding right?
You realize this is the same company that said they would never touch the heresy outside FW, and that they would not make primarchs in 40k.
GW wouldn't be doing their job if they admitted that they were phasing out a line of product until they squeezed every drop of profit out of the old molds.
I was there at the seminar, and I asked if Grey Knights were getting the primaris treatment myself. I was told a flat "no" (not even a "there aren't any plans for it in the future right now").
* There's a city fight campaign box with cards/stickers for map making
* There's specialist detachments and multi-unit stratagems that cost CP and give special bonuses (examples given include a leman russ detachment and a stratagem that makes all intercessors into veterans)
* Imperial Agents will NOT be receiving a codex
* Grey Knights will NOT be getting primaris
* The miniature design team is in charge of what gets made, not rules/lore/business people. They get the ball rolling on anything. Primarchs in particular only get made when the team has a cool design in mind.
slave.entity wrote: I'm still not convinced oldmarine lore is going to be phased out completely to be replaced by Primaris. I just don't see why they would have bothered to spend resources developing Primaris lore if their only objective was to sell new models.
If all they wanted to do was get people to buy more marines they could have just released Primaris scale marines as new tacticals. Why go through the effort of differentiating them from a branding/lore perspective?
Because the alternative would have required them to release an entire Primaris range all at once, which would have been problematic from a cost perspective.
To be clear, though, it's unlikely that old Marines will be written out of the fluff, particularly given that they don't appear to be going full Primaris with Chaos. But by this point, with their current rate of releases, I'm expecting that next edition will see the fluff advanced further, with Primaris marines now being the standard and old Marines all having been killed, retired, or fallen to low enough numbers to be effectively ignored in the game.
Cue short story compilation of the last few squads of old marines from various chapters, detailing their difficulties coping in an Imperium that has passed them by...
I was there at the seminar, and I asked if Grey Knights were getting the primaris treatment myself. I was told a flat "no" (not even a "there aren't any plans for it in the future right now").
I would be inclined to take that as a sign that Grey Knights aren't selling well enough to warrant their own Primaris range. They'll likely get around to it once the regular Marine range has been completed, assuming GK haven't just been squatted by then.
^This, I wouldn't consider Grey Knights an indicator anyway. Taking everything they suggest about future releases at face value is silly. I am sure regular marines are hanging around for the foreseeable future, now define what that means? It's safe to assume it means once the current range stops bringing in an acceptable profit. If they were to suggest normal marines would be phased out at ANY time, sales would drop off a cliff and they would have a nightmare with shareholders.
It has nothing to do with being cynical, and everything to do with understanding marketing and sales.
Indeed it it is. Don't ditch a popular line of models, or replace it with a divisive set of models that many hardcore collectors of the replaced line dislike and won't buy, if you want to maintain good sales figures on the line, I'm sure they understand that.
As I said feel free to be cynical if you want. Also feel free to be supercilious if you want
You need to back peddle a bit further if you want to avoid having egg on your face. Your almost there.
I’m just happy seeing these concepts executed by the design team, but a greedier me would probably be wondering where my royalties are, LOL.
Spoiler:
Did I miss something? Was there a different cult buggy shown somewhere?
Oh, a one seat quad with a rotating gun isn’t the same thing as a two seat buggy with a rotating gun, but they’re definitely in the same conceptual space. It’s fine...there are also quite a few ideas from other folks like Tim Huckelberry, MajorTom, etc. that have found their way into the army in some form. It’s cool to see the design team paying attention.
slave.entity wrote: I'm still not convinced oldmarine lore is going to be phased out completely to be replaced by Primaris. I just don't see why they would have bothered to spend resources developing Primaris lore if their only objective was to sell new models.
If all they wanted to do was get people to buy more marines they could have just released Primaris scale marines as new tacticals. Why go through the effort of differentiating them from a branding/lore perspective?
Because the alternative would have required them to release an entire Primaris range all at once, which would have been problematic from a cost perspective.
To be clear, though, it's unlikely that old Marines will be written out of the fluff, particularly given that they don't appear to be going full Primaris with Chaos. But by this point, with their current rate of releases, I'm expecting that next edition will see the fluff advanced further, with Primaris marines now being the standard and old Marines all having been killed, retired, or fallen to low enough numbers to be effectively ignored in the game.
Cue short story compilation of the last few squads of old marines from various chapters, detailing their difficulties coping in an Imperium that has passed them by...
I would bet toward the end they give them single squad build rules like Fallen. Here have a data sheet that can technically field all your models, but why would you when they are terrible. I honestly wish they had just jumped the scale but apparently they also want to remove options from squads. Thats something I feel gets glossed over the most. Not that primaris lack options, but that it had to be intentional.
A way they might "get rid of" the old marines in the future is simply stating chaos has found a new way of corrupting them, at a much faster pace than ever before. So all characters and plenty of normal soldiers just go through the primarization to prevent falling to chaos. The loyalist old marines thus become extinct. Either by becoming primaris or by falling to chaos.
I don't think this will happen in the next 5 years or so, but maybe in 10?
I guess the city fight detachments/stratagems will work in matched play too? Which would be pretty helpful with intercessors, turning every squad in a detachment into vets.
slave.entity wrote: I'm still not convinced oldmarine lore is going to be phased out completely to be replaced by Primaris. I just don't see why they would have bothered to spend resources developing Primaris lore if their only objective was to sell new models.
If all they wanted to do was get people to buy more marines they could have just released Primaris scale marines as new tacticals. Why go through the effort of differentiating them from a branding/lore perspective?
Because the alternative would have required them to release an entire Primaris range all at once, which would have been problematic from a cost perspective.
To be clear, though, it's unlikely that old Marines will be written out of the fluff, particularly given that they don't appear to be going full Primaris with Chaos. But by this point, with their current rate of releases, I'm expecting that next edition will see the fluff advanced further, with Primaris marines now being the standard and old Marines all having been killed, retired, or fallen to low enough numbers to be effectively ignored in the game.
Cue short story compilation of the last few squads of old marines from various chapters, detailing their difficulties coping in an Imperium that has passed them by...
Interesting. A very slow, gradual, lore-assisted death over the course of several editions would be the one way I could see it happening. Something on the scale of 5-10 years perhaps.
cole1114 wrote: I guess the city fight detachments/stratagems will work in matched play too? Which would be pretty helpful with intercessors, turning every squad in a detachment into vets.
The city fight stuff is it's own set of narrative campaign rules, they're not appropriate for a standard matched play game with more typical terrain.
cole1114 wrote: I guess the city fight detachments/stratagems will work in matched play too? Which would be pretty helpful with intercessors, turning every squad in a detachment into vets.
I would be really interested in knowing what them being 'veterans' actually entails in this context.
cole1114 wrote: I guess the city fight detachments/stratagems will work in matched play too? Which would be pretty helpful with intercessors, turning every squad in a detachment into vets.
The city fight stuff is it's own set of narrative campaign rules, they're not appropriate for a standard matched play game with more typical terrain.
The guy who was at the weekender mentioned the rules will work for matched play too.
cole1114 wrote: I guess the city fight detachments/stratagems will work in matched play too? Which would be pretty helpful with intercessors, turning every squad in a detachment into vets.
The city fight stuff is it's own set of narrative campaign rules, they're not appropriate for a standard matched play game with more typical terrain.
Nope.
I was at the seminar. They VERY EXPLICITLY stated that these rules (i.e. the stratagems, formations, etc.) were coming for Matched Play. There were even a lot of questions about the effect this would have on the balance of Matched Play (e.g. whether guard would profit immensely at tournaments due to CP).
(I'm assuming you're suggesting in your post that those rules aren't for matched play, sorry if I'm reading your post wrong).
I'm really hoping we don't get the 7e detachment problem alongside it.
PiñaColada wrote: A way they might "get rid of" the old marines in the future is simply stating chaos has found a new way of corrupting them, at a much faster pace than ever before. So all characters and plenty of normal soldiers just go through the primarization to prevent falling to chaos. The loyalist old marines thus become extinct. Either by becoming primaris or by falling to chaos.
I don't think this will happen in the next 5 years or so, but maybe in 10?
I'd be shocked if it takes 10 years. In 18 months look at how many updates we got. Including primaris to begin with. No way the little guys last 120 more. I absolutely think by 9th it will have happened. Old marines will still get simplified over cost legacy rules as a token gesture. I have already seen players that hated the thought of buying a new army when they first leaked already start their 2nd and even 3rd primaris army, heck one guy took this to our latest local GT:
The bikes and quad are cool, though. and getting a helmet for the miner suit is an added bonus.
From CaptainBetts' write-up (thanks for that!):
There are currently no plans to release an "agents of the imperium" codex. The designers felt that the units don't translate to the battlefield well. An inquisitor etc. feel more appropriate for rogue trader/kill team. Specifically gave example of a character with a simple rapier and a laspistol doesn't feel "right".
They actually said that? That's the definition of dumb.
Like I need my opinion of these designers cemented any further...
So anyone think that the harp guy is a clear indication of mortal Slaanesh units and how they'll look.
Hes completely out of place with all current Slaanesh models.
Well, Tzeentch, Nurgle and Khorne have dedicated mortal troops in Age of Sigmar and it's expected that we'll get a Slaanesh release for both systems back to back. If I had to guess I'd say it was designed generic enough to fit both systems but relates to a unit in Age of Sigmar.
Possibly with a 40k use as well if they want to introduce dedicated Slaanesh cultists. We did get Tzaangors with a 40k upgrade sprue after all, so there's enough of a precedent.
Is Calgar's marine Honor Guard an existing kit already? I feel like the jump pack guys aren't Primaris and the shield guys look about normal marine sized.
Edit: Ok that is definitely normal Sternguard and vanguard vet kits. I still think the shield guys are new regular marines though as I dont see them anywhere
cole1114 wrote: I guess the city fight detachments/stratagems will work in matched play too? Which would be pretty helpful with intercessors, turning every squad in a detachment into vets.
The city fight stuff is it's own set of narrative campaign rules, they're not appropriate for a standard matched play game with more typical terrain.
Nope.
I was at the seminar. They VERY EXPLICITLY stated that these rules (i.e. the stratagems, formations, etc.) were coming for Matched Play.
(I'm assuming you're suggesting in your post that those rules aren't for matched play, sorry if I'm reading your post wrong).
I'm really hoping we don't get the 7e detachment problem alongside it.
Ah, my mistake then. Guess we'll be seeing even more cheap brigades to make your detachment of super badasses even more super badass.
Geifer wrote: From CaptainBetts' write-up (thanks for that!):
There are currently no plans to release an "agents of the imperium" codex. The designers felt that the units don't translate to the battlefield well. An inquisitor etc. feel more appropriate for rogue trader/kill team. Specifically gave example of a character with a simple rapier and a laspistol doesn't feel "right".
They actually said that? That's the definition of dumb.
Like I need my opinion of these designers cemented any further...
You're welcome . I figured I'd better do a full writeup, as otherwise there will only be small fragments of detail from multiple sources scattered over the internet. I went into a lot of detail to remove ambiguity.
Yeah, they said this. I was taken aback by it too - there were a few audible sighs around the seminar room when it was said.
Malkyr wrote: Quick question on the Vigilus Defiant video.
Is Calgar's marine Honor Guard an existing kit already? I feel like the jump pack guys aren't Primaris and the shield guys look about normal marine sized.
Nope, it's brand new and definitely primaris.
Also, it's interesting how much the miniature design team controls where 40k goes. Even stuff like primarchs won't get made unless they feel like making a cool design for them, they aren't ordered to make them.
MothCult wrote: I'm talking about the guy the harp is made out of, he's different and human looking.
Oooh, that guy. He could just be a random victim, eventhough he has a Slaaneshy pendant. But it would make sense for Slaanesh to get low tier mortals, everyone else has them.
There's also a Rumour Engine pic of what looks like a spiked gauntlet stylized after Daemonette claws and made to fit a human sized figure.
Arachnofiend wrote: Ah, my mistake then. Guess we'll be seeing even more cheap brigades to make your detachment of super badasses even more super badass.
Yeah. After this was stated there were about 5-6 questions from worried audience members, asking things like "but won't this be like 7e?", or "This will be stupidly unbalanced if not all armies get these, what about other armies?", or "are you not concerned that guard (and by extension Imperium) will benefit massively from this given the large quantities of CP they can generate?".
The presenter did say the rules team were aware of the CP inbalance. However they didn't mention how they were going to actually tackle this, if at all. They did say the formations were "characterful, not necessarily overpowered".
Also, it's interesting how much the miniature design team controls where 40k goes. Even stuff like primarchs won't get made unless they feel like making a cool design for them, they aren't ordered to make them.
I realized after posting the jump pack guys are normal vanguard vets. That said the Shield guys seem new but are at least a head shorter then Calgar so I think they are normal marines.
PiñaColada wrote: A way they might "get rid of" the old marines in the future is simply stating chaos has found a new way of corrupting them, at a much faster pace than ever before. So all characters and plenty of normal soldiers just go through the primarization to prevent falling to chaos. The loyalist old marines thus become extinct. Either by becoming primaris or by falling to chaos.
I don't think this will happen in the next 5 years or so, but maybe in 10?
I'd be shocked if it takes 10 years. In 18 months look at how many updates we got. Including primaris to begin with. No way the little guys last 120 more. I absolutely think by 9th it will have happened. Old marines will still get simplified over cost legacy rules as a token gesture. I have already seen players that hated the thought of buying a new army when they first leaked already start their 2nd and even 3rd primaris army, heck one guy took this to our latest local GT:
Spoiler:
That's a great looking army! I meant 10 years for them to be out, like not even index anymore. They'll be phased out by neglect in the beginning but it's bound to happen at one point or another I feel.
Also, it's interesting how much the miniature design team controls where 40k goes. Even stuff like primarchs won't get made unless they feel like making a cool design for them, they aren't ordered to make them.
I realized after posting the jump pack guys are normal vanguard vets. That said the Shield guys seem new but are at least a head shorter then Calgar so I think they are normal marines.
Nah, that's definitely Mk X armor. Kneepads and backpack seal that.
slave.entity wrote: I'm still not convinced oldmarine lore is going to be phased out completely to be replaced by Primaris. I just don't see why they would have bothered to spend resources developing Primaris lore if their only objective was to sell new models.
If all they wanted to do was get people to buy more marines they could have just released Primaris scale marines as new tacticals. Why go through the effort of differentiating them from a branding/lore perspective?
The word from the Vigilus event seems consistent with this viewpoint.
The fact you're not convinced is exactly the reason why(a cynic might think). So long as most Marine fans are convinced Primaris are an addition rather than a replacement, they'll keep buying both types. They'll also be less likely to hold back some of their hobby spending in the expectation/hope of Primarisified versions of the existing core unit types.
Recall the End Times for WHF; they were very careful not to give the impression right off the bat that the writing was actually, 100%, no foolin' on the wall for WHFB, because they wanted to make sure they got every last penny out of the playerbase(many of whom had managed to convince themselves that the "Bubblehammer" rumours were lies and the End Times was a new lease of life for the setting and would become the new status quo) before they finally pulled the plug. The timescale there is likely compressed relative to how long it will take for minimarines to ride off into the sunset, but I'd wager the end result will be the same.
Quote from that Reddit infodump:
"There are currently no plans to release an "agents of the imperium" codex. The designers felt that the units don't translate to the battlefield well. An inquisitor etc. feel more appropriate for rogue trader/kill team. Specifically gave example of a character with a simple rapier and a laspistol doesn't feel "right"."
Boo. Hiss. Rubbish. Also - a genuinely daft excuse, given there have been multiple Inquisition codices over the years, and the first iterations were actually damn good. I mean, by that standard, what happens to Guard officers? Most of them don't even get fancy pistols and swords.
Oh wow, must of completely missed that rumor pic, I'll agree with you that's really Slaanesh looking, super looking forward to the rest of the previews now.
Oh, a one seat quad with a rotating gun isn’t the same thing as a two seat buggy with a rotating gun, but they’re definitely in the same conceptual space.
A one seat quad bike and a two seater truck-looking thing converted from a landspeeder are an awful long way from being in the same 'conceptual space'... sorry, dude. Your conversion is cool (although also a very, very common one) but it's not a quad bike.
Breotan wrote: Is Primaris armor actually referred to as Mk X by GW?
Yeah, mark 9 was skipped and mark X consists of every primaris variant including gravis.
I just found a comment in the "Spear of the Emperor" novel preview that refers to Primaris armor as "Mark X Tacticus-Pattern Power Armour" so it's I see that it's canon and not fan terminology. Okay, wasn't a big deal, I was just curious.
cole1114 wrote: I guess the city fight detachments/stratagems will work in matched play too? Which would be pretty helpful with intercessors, turning every squad in a detachment into vets.
The city fight stuff is it's own set of narrative campaign rules, they're not appropriate for a standard matched play game with more typical terrain.
Nope.
I was at the seminar. They VERY EXPLICITLY stated that these rules (i.e. the stratagems, formations, etc.) were coming for Matched Play. There were even a lot of questions about the effect this would have on the balance of Matched Play (e.g. whether guard would profit immensely at tournaments due to CP).
(I'm assuming you're suggesting in your post that those rules aren't for matched play, sorry if I'm reading your post wrong).
I'm really hoping we don't get the 7e detachment problem alongside it.
That's really really dumb. Stuff like this always ends up either being hated/banned or useless.
They need MORE differentiation between matched and narrative, not less.
Kendo wrote: I’m surprised not much talk of Killteam. Thanks for the write up.
It was a Q&A session, so they only really discussed topics the audience asked about. There were only 1 or 2 questions about kill team. One was something like "how will kill team tie in with vigilus, if at all" (answer was "it's set on vigilus"), and "any more plans to expand kill team beyond commanders etc." (answer was "yes, there's a lot more planned for kill team).
Maybe if it had been asked more there would be more talk on it, but without people asking about it there wasn't much of an opportunity to bring it up.
Why is no one taking about the Primaris honorguard? Obviously it’s only for Calgar, but I hope this opens up other possibilities.
Also what’s with no more imperial agents? “They don’t fit on the battle fields”? Seriously.. maybe if they didn’t give them garbage rules, have conflicting rules, or actually updated/ have them some models people would like them.
By their own logic as the rules developers saying they don’t Work in 40k is their own fault for making them trash. They needed to be added as an allied force to help bring some different combat to your army..never a force on their own.
So anyone think that the harp guy is a clear indication of mortal Slaanesh units and how they'll look.
Hes completely out of place with all current Slaanesh models.
Maybe, but from the different view it looks like it might be a captive Eldar/Elf. Then again it appears to be wearing Slaanesh's symbol. I'm more concerned about the rules, having a basically immobile model in an army focused on speed is an odd choice.
I couldn't agree more with GW with their stance on Imperial Agents. The codex should never have existed in the first place and should, at best, be wrapped up in another codex. They have no place on the battlefield. They'll no doubt give them a mini codex like the Gellarpox Infected which should suffice.
slave.entity wrote: If all they wanted to do was get people to buy more marines they could have just released Primaris scale marines as new tacticals. Why go through the effort of differentiating them from a branding/lore perspective?
The same reason why Imperial Guard are now "Astra Militarum" in all official branding, the same reason Eldar and Deldar are "Aeldari" and "Drukhari" in all official branding, the reason we get convoluted ass names like "fecculent gnarlmaw" instead of something simple like "plague tree", the reason why you don't get rules unless you have a model, etc.
Because copyright.
GW tried to copyright "Space Marine" 10 or so years ago. They failed because it was ruled in court that Space Marine (and a host of other iconic 40K names) were too generic to be claimed as unique IP. So GW has been systematically changing all fluff and branding to be easier to copyright. Ergo we have "Primaris" marines with weird ass names like Intercessor, Reiver, Inceptor etc. The more obscure and cobbled together the terms are, the easier GW can defend them in court as specific IP.
People really don't appreciate how much the chapterhouse lawsuit fethed with GW's head. EVERY design change GW has implemented in the past ten years, every single one, can be traced back to them losing that case.
An Actual Englishman wrote: I couldn't agree more with GW with their stance on Imperial Agents. The codex should never have existed in the first place and should, at best, be wrapped up in another codex. They have no place on the battlefield. They'll no doubt give them a mini codex like the Gellarpox Infected which should suffice.
I think they really missed the shot when they released Grey Knights. They should have had ordo malleus inqusitors and a retinue entry with malleus specific gear. Saem for Deathwatch. Then when Sisters is released, they could have added Hereticus.
Assasins, Rogue Traders, and SoS are in a weird spot really.
Breotan wrote: Is Primaris armor actually referred to as Mk X by GW?
Actually, it was named as such since the very start:
Malkyr wrote: Is Calgar's marine Honor Guard an existing kit already? I feel like the jump pack guys aren't Primaris and the shield guys look about normal marine sized.
They look smaller because Calgar is in Gravis suit. Compare DI Gravis captain to his men, they look smaller too...
There is a distinct lack of new chaos things aside form the new Lord. No new CSM box? Bikes? Havocs/Chosen? Oblits? Mutilators officially getting squat'd? Le sigh...
I think they really missed the shot when they released Grey Knights. They should have had ordo malleus inqusitors and a retinue entry with malleus specific gear. Saem for Deathwatch. Then when Sisters is released, they could have added Hereticus.
Assasins, Rogue Traders, and SoS are in a weird spot really.
An Actual Englishman wrote: I couldn't agree more with GW with their stance on Imperial Agents. The codex should never have existed in the first place and should, at best, be wrapped up in another codex. They have no place on the battlefield. They'll no doubt give them a mini codex like the Gellarpox Infected which should suffice.
I think they really missed the shot when they released Grey Knights. They should have had ordo malleus inqusitors and a retinue entry with malleus specific gear. Saem for Deathwatch. Then when Sisters is released, they could have added Hereticus.
Assasins, Rogue Traders, and SoS are in a weird spot really.
Agreed. I've never approved of GK and Inquisition being their own unique armies. Hell, even Sisters frankly.
A "Codex: Imperial Auxiliaries" containing Inquisitors, Custodes, Grey Knights, Death Watch and Sisters/ Ecclesiarchy units would have made much more sense to me.
On the other hand though, the same thing can honestly be said about genestealer cults and the snowflake SM chapters like DA and BA. So, a bit late to close pandora's box in that regard.
Well the new miniatures look good, I especially like the new Slaanesh unit models. I think people are totally wrong about old marines being phased out, remember that almost all Aspect Warriors remain resin only while most of the "old" space marine units have plastic models. I doubt Aspect Warriors are going anywhere and I doubt old marines go anywhere either. I think the design team just wants to give people the option to have more "realistic"/military/soldier looking marines.
The bigger deal for me is the talk of formations and bizarre new cities stratagems for MATCHED play. One of the examples of formations was apparently a Stompa getting a warlord trait and relic. What could go wrong with a 40 wound titanic unit being amplified by a warlord trait and relic? We saw how that went with the Castellan.....
If this is GW's idea of what the community wants and/or how to balance the game then I think we are all screwed.
An Actual Englishman wrote: I couldn't agree more with GW with their stance on Imperial Agents. The codex should never have existed in the first place and should, at best, be wrapped up in another codex. They have no place on the battlefield. They'll no doubt give them a mini codex like the Gellarpox Infected which should suffice.
Yes, and Grey Knights and Deathwatch never should have been made into full armies. But they were, and now people are invested in them as proper 40K factions, and as much as I personally would be perfectly happy if GK went back to a single ally-only unit of Terminators and DW went back to a single ally-only Kill Team unit I don't actually hope that happens because it would be garbage for said invested people. As for having no place on a battlefield, I guess I must have just imagined all the accounts of Inquisitors leading armies, or commanding kill-units operating during larger military engagements, or launching large-scale operations that would, numerically, easy equal a GSC army or the like.
There is no argument against the inclusion of Inquisitors, Rogue Traders et al that can't be turned against at least one other extant 40K faction.
Besides which, lets get real - the actual reason why we won't get an Imperial Agents codex is that in order to do the concept justice, the rules need to be flexible and highly customisable, which is completely alien to GW's present mode of thinking, which would limit you to Greyfax with whatever weapons are on the model and no more.
slave.entity wrote: If all they wanted to do was get people to buy more marines they could have just released Primaris scale marines as new tacticals. Why go through the effort of differentiating them from a branding/lore perspective?
The same reason why Imperial Guard are now "Astra Militarum" in all official branding, the same reason Eldar and Deldar are "Aeldari" and "Drukhari" in all official branding, the reason we get convoluted ass names like "fecculent gnarlmaw" instead of something simple like "plague tree", the reason why you don't get rules unless you have a model, etc.
Because copyright.
GW tried to copyright "Space Marine" 10 or so years ago. They failed because it was ruled in court that Space Marine (and a host of other iconic 40K names) were too generic to be claimed as unique IP.
So GW has been systematically changing all fluff and branding to be easier to copyright. Ergo we have "Primaris" marines with weird ass names like Intercessor, Reiver, Inceptor etc. The more obscure and cobbled together the terms are, the easier GW can defend them in court as specific IP.
People really don't appreciate how much the chapterhouse lawsuit fethed with GW's head. EVERY design change GW has implemented in the past ten years, every single one, can be traced back to them losing that case.
That's pretty convincing. So it sounds like the general consensus is GW will continue to sell and support oldmarines until people stop buying them. Rather than abruptly ending the oldmarine line and replacing it with Primaris all at once, they are instead allowing oldmarines to die naturally by simply focusing all of their future design/marketing efforts on Primaris. This lets them maximize oldmarine sales as player interest and perception of oldmarines gradually declines and eventually after sales drop past a certain threshold they'll kill the line.
THE_LIST_MASTER wrote: ... remember that almost all Aspect Warriors remain resin only while most of the "old" space marine units have plastic models. I doubt Aspect Warriors are going anywhere and I doubt old marines go anywhere either..
I'm not sure I follow the logic here.
Aspect Warriors are still in resin because GW haven't yet updated them. If, instead of updating the original Aspects, GW releases a new plastic Nu-Aspect Warrior kit featuring all new Aspect temples, then they'll be in a comparable situation.
“Necrons and Tau won’t be present on Vigilus”
“Everyone present in Vigilus will get special rules”
“Imperium will be in every campaign”
Feth off with this gak; from the sounds of it, Necrons+Tau won’t be getting as special things, just because they’re not on the world.
But that’s a minor issue compared to the Imperium being in EVERY campaign - seriously, feature someone else in the story for fething once. I’ve had it up to here with “imperial this, imperial that” bs.
Edit: No “primarch like modelsfor each army; they want primarchs to be rare and special” - feth off; give Xenos something special and big for once. Why does imperial have to get EVERY big, strong, special model rules+treatment? How about Prime Ork Ghazghkull?
That's pretty convincing. So it sounds like the general consensus is GW will continue to sell and support oldmarines until people stop buying them. Rather than abruptly ending the oldmarine line and replacing it with Primaris all at once, they are instead allowing oldmarines to die naturally by simply focusing all of their future design/marketing efforts on Primaris. This lets them maximize oldmarine sales as player interest and perception of oldmarines gradually declines and eventually after sales drop past a certain threshold they'll kill the line.
Pretty much, yes. And given that more and more of the oldmarine range has been moving to GW exclusive, all of the new releases have been focusing on Primaris, and the vast majority of people who enter this hobby don't actually stay in it for longer than 3-5 years, I fully expect this to happen sooner rather than later. If they release 9th edition in, say, 2020, they'll have reached a point where marine players are almost entirely either 'veteran' players who already have armies and either aren't buying very much new stuff for them or are starting over with new models, or newer players who have only really been buying Primaris models anyway.
Feth off with this gak; from the sounds of it, Necrons+Tau won’t be getting as special things, just because they’re not on the world.
I'm confused. Would there be any reason to expect armies that are not taking part in the campaign to receive new material as a result of that campaign...?
Yodhrin wrote: Besides which, lets get real - the actual reason why we won't get an Imperial Agents codex is that in order to do the concept justice, the rules need to be flexible and highly customisable, which is completely alien to GW's present mode of thinking, which would limit you to Greyfax with whatever weapons are on the model and no more.
I think the main reason we won't see such a codex is because GW has deemed that the codex and associated models would not be profitable for their cost. A stance I agree with honestly.
I just meant that the "old" marine plastic kits are not in fact that old by GW standards so I doubt they will stop producing them anytime soon. I also think that they are more likely to "reimagine" the old marines to be a few millimeters taller, like the Chaos Marines in Blackstone Fortress, and pretend that nothing changed, rather than discontinue them.
Probably reading to much into this but......No denial of a Tyranid prescence. Could the Pauper Princes get there day of accension? Nothing makes for temporary allies of convenience like a hungry Hive fleet
Feth off with this gak; from the sounds of it, Necrons+Tau won’t be getting as special things, just because they’re not on the world.
I'm confused. Would there be any reason to expect armies that are not taking part in the campaign to receive new material as a result of that campaign...?
There'll be other campaigns.
Well, the reddit post I read said:
No Necrons and Tau on Vigilus. They may appear in later settings if they suit it. They don't want to make an unrealistic setting where every faction is present.
The factions present on Vigilus are going to be getting these rules.
Edit: No “primarch like modelsfor each army; they want primarchs to be rare and special” - feth off; give Xenos something special and big for once. Why does imperial have to get EVERY big, strong, special model rules+treatment? How about Prime Ork Ghazghkull?
I responded to your comment on the reddit post, but I'll post it here just to make sure I'm clear (I might have worded something badly?).
That's not what was said, don't worry. I think you've accidentally combined two of the above points:
1) [Chaos/Loyal] Marine Primarchs will be released infrequently if at all. 2) GW won't systematically go through each and every army to give them a LoW choice, they'll only give them one if it so happens one is designed for them by the design team.
Marine Primarchs will be released very slowly and rarely, to make sure they're rare and special.
Armies without Lord of War models (e.g. Tyranids) or Primarch leader equivalents will only be getting them if it so happens that one of the models the design team decides to sculpt coincidentally is a Lord of War model.
So if they decide to sculpt Ghazghull, Orks will get a Lord of War.
I might have written down stuff slightly poorly, if that's the case I apologise.
Wait, do people really not like that grey knights/deathwatch have their own armies? I can almost get that for GK because they've got a history of being poorly balanced, but the deathwatch models are fantastic and add a lot to the game IMO.
Barzam wrote: So, are Marneus Calgar and Wotldtaker expected to be standalone clamshell releases, or are we thinking they'll be in a Starter/Campaign box of Ultras vs. New Black Legion?
Worldclaimer is likely a clampack, Calgar probably a box with his 2 body guards. Too bad no new champion and standard to replace the old ones as well.
cole1114 wrote: Wait, do people really not like that grey knights/deathwatch have their own armies? I can almost get that for GK because they've got a history of being poorly balanced, but the deathwatch models are fantastic and add a lot to the game IMO.
Deathwatch would have been just fine as a unit type in the SM codex or Inquisition book. Though the Corvus and Watchmaster are awesome. Make a Deathwatch chapter tactic, add a kill team, corvus, and watchmaster as DW limited units, and they will take up about the same space as the Black Templars. Maybe let you add a kill team to other chapters like how flash gitz work.
Probably reading to much into this but......No denial of a Tyranid prescence. Could the Pauper Princes get there day of accension? Nothing makes for temporary allies of convenience like a hungry Hive fleet
When they were mentioning the factions that were getting the rules Tyranids weren't one of them. The factions that got these rules are the ones present on Vigilus and involved with the story. Given this I'd assume the Nids won't show up (this isn't fact, but is my opinion).
I am curious if the new special rules for Space Marines will be Chapter Specific. Like, will those special rules leave certain chapters out in the cold because they aren't Toilet Seat Marines? I certainly hope not.
I am curious to see what these special rules are too. I can't imagine 1CP before the game begins should be able to produce something too powerful.
insaniak wrote: I'm confused. Would there be any reason to expect armies that are not taking part in the campaign to receive new material as a result of that campaign...?
There'll be other campaigns.
From what I understand the general worry with these campaign books is this:
1) There are more campaign books coming.
2) With every campaign book armies featured within it get a load more rules, stratagems and formations.
3) Imperium are in every campaign.
4) Armies like Necrons might only be in one.
5) Some armies won't have any appearance in campaign books (this was actually stated in the seminar, I was there).
There's the worry that some armies (or soup umbrellas) will get many more rules, stratagems and formations than others, which has the potential to lead to the army with more versatility and choice becoming stronger.
I don't hold too much of an opinion on the matter yet though (I'm waiting until we see what these rules are like).
Automatically Appended Next Post:
casvalremdeikun wrote: I am curious if the new special rules for Space Marines will be Chapter Specific. Like, will those special rules leave certain chapters out in the cold because they aren't Toilet Seat Marines? I certainly hope not.
I am curious to see what these special rules are too. I can't imagine 1CP before the game begins should be able to produce something too powerful.
I got the impression at the seminar that the special rules would cost more than 1CP, significantly more perhaps.
NOTE - THIS IS IN NO WAY A FACT, I JUST ASSUME THIS WILL BE THE CASE.
cole1114 wrote: Wait, do people really not like that grey knights/deathwatch have their own armies? I can almost get that for GK because they've got a history of being poorly balanced, but the deathwatch models are fantastic and add a lot to the game IMO.
Well, it is more that pruning out the Inquisition stuff has left the Inquisition in poor place, and I think has made both GK and DW more boring. I would have preferred a larger Inquisition codex, or at least Ordo Malleus and Ordo Xenos codices. They could have still included enough option that you could have fielded pure GK or DW army if you so chose, but it would have made their association with the Inquisition more apparent, and fielding more varied force less painful.
Edit: No “primarch like modelsfor each army; they want primarchs to be rare and special” - feth off; give Xenos something special and big for once. Why does imperial have to get EVERY big, strong, special model rules+treatment? How about Prime Ork Ghazghkull?
I responded to your comment on the reddit post, but I'll post it here just to make sure I'm clear (I might have worded something badly?).
That's not what was said, don't worry. I think you've accidentally combined two of the above points:
1) [Chaos/Loyal] Marine Primarchs will be released infrequently if at all.
2) GW won't systematically go through each and every army to give them a LoW choice, they'll only give them one if it so happens one is designed for them by the design team.
Marine Primarchs will be released very slowly and rarely, to make sure they're rare and special.
Armies without Lord of War models (e.g. Tyranids) or Primarch leader equivalents will only be getting them if it so happens that one of the models the design team decides to sculpt coincidentally is a Lord of War model.
So if they decide to sculpt Ghazghull, Orks will get a Lord of War.
I might have written down stuff slightly poorly, if that's the case I apologise.
Thanks.
It doesn’t provide me with much confidence in other factions getting new primarchs/lords of war (since how many new scuplts does anyone get anyways); but at least it’s been clarified on what the process for making a new primarch-esque model is.
THE_LIST_MASTER wrote: I just meant that the "old" marine plastic kits are not in fact that old by GW standards so I doubt they will stop producing them anytime soon..
Most of them are are older than the current Aspect Warrior models. And they're all based on a marine kit that was made for 3rd edition, 20 years ago.
Age of the kit is far less relevant than how well it is selling, and the direction chosen by the company to drive sales. And as the Primaris range expands and GW continues to make it harder to buy oldmarine kits, oldmarine kit sales will continue to decline.
With the Primaris vs. Old Marines thing, there was really no way to please everyone. They obviously wanted to upscale Marines and redo the range with a newer aesthetic. They did a few experiments with Deathwatch and some other contemporary Marine kits that pushed the scale up without any background justification, and I guess either too many people noticed and didn't like it or it just wasn't far enough.
So, assuming "true scale" Marines is the end goal, how do you go about doing it? Option 1 is to simply release new versions of the old units with significantly larger Space Marines and pull the old, "they've always been this way" trick. That works okay for single units (like Terminators), but instantly rendering entire collections of their most popular army invalid or, at the very least, unfashionable is probably not going to do them any favours.
Option 2 is to come up with some background reason for all Space Marines to be replaced with newer versions but, again, you run into the same problem of old collections. If the size difference is noticeable, people aren't going to want to mix the new and the old. Instant invalidation.
Option 3 is to have brand new Primaris Chapters. New livery, new background. Older Chapters have all the original gear and weedy little Marines, new guys get all the 41K toys. But then you've basically created a whole bunch of new armies that you can't necessarily support. Plus if all new Marine stuff is Primaris, the Big Four will never get any new models.
So they went with Option 4, which is that Primaris Marines are basically added to existing Chapters piecemeal. There are also the new Chapters from Option 3. That way, you can add the new stuff to your existing army if you like, or just play a brand new 'pure' Primaris Chapter and not worry about the mixed aesthetics. The background implication is that eventually Option 2 will come into play as older Marines die off and new Primaris recruits replace them, and now (though it was always said to be possible...) we've got old Marines being upgraded too.
So really, there was no way to do it that wouldn't annoy someone. The way it currently works is a little awkward from a narrative perspective: what, Cawl just had a million super-Marines sitting in stasis this whole time and thought his original agreement with a seemingly dead guy trumped any requirement the Imperium might have had for such a formidable force during its 10,000 year history? Really could have used those fellas during the Age of Apostasy and the Tyrannic Wars, my dude...
But it's the least bad option if you absolutely, positively have to introduce bigger Space Marine models.
cole1114 wrote: Wait, do people really not like that grey knights/deathwatch have their own armies? I can almost get that for GK because they've got a history of being poorly balanced, but the deathwatch models are fantastic and add a lot to the game IMO.
A different color of marine = whole different book
A different color of Xenos = different faction trait, in the same book
That’s the problem - one faction gets 10+ books because they paint their armor a different color; while some factions barely get a single book for all of their differently colored klans.
Imagine if each Klan/Dynasty/HiveFleet/Craftworld got their own book; man, wouldn’t that be something?
insaniak wrote: I'm confused. Would there be any reason to expect armies that are not taking part in the campaign to receive new material as a result of that campaign...?
There'll be other campaigns.
From what I understand the general worry with these campaign books is this:
1) There are more campaign books coming.
2) With every campaign book armies featured within it get a load more rules, stratagems and formations.
3) Imperium are in every campaign.
4) Armies like Necrons might only be in one.
5) Some armies won't have any appearance in campaign books (this was actually stated in the seminar, I was there).
There's the worry that some armies (or soup umbrellas) will get many more rules, stratagems and formations than others, which has the potential to lead to the army with more versatility and choice becoming stronger.
I don't hold too much of an opinion on the matter yet though (I'm waiting until we see what these rules are like).
Automatically Appended Next Post:
casvalremdeikun wrote: I am curious if the new special rules for Space Marines will be Chapter Specific. Like, will those special rules leave certain chapters out in the cold because they aren't Toilet Seat Marines? I certainly hope not.
I am curious to see what these special rules are too. I can't imagine 1CP before the game begins should be able to produce something too powerful.
I got the impression at the seminar that the special rules would cost more than 1CP, significantly more perhaps.
NOTE - THIS IS IN NO WAY A FACT, I JUST ASSUME THIS WILL BE THE CASE.
This is fairly typical GW pigeonholing. They know from long years of experience that despite all the bluster, only a minority of the playerbase actually plays narrative games and of those only a small percentage actually buy narrative supplements. They need matched play dollars or they'll never make money off of these. The fact that they always end up creating massive issues or being banned/nerfed by the community never really seems to concern them.
Campaign books were what eventually ended up putting the final nail in the coffin for seventh. Angels of Death was so supremely broken that a psyker power had to be community nerfed and another power had to be banned before the book even hit shelves and by the time the Magnus book came out the game was unplayable.
cole1114 wrote: Wait, do people really not like that grey knights/deathwatch have their own armies? I can almost get that for GK because they've got a history of being poorly balanced, but the deathwatch models are fantastic and add a lot to the game IMO.
A different color of marine = whole different book
A different color of Xenos = different faction trait, in the same book
That’s the problem - one faction gets 10+ books because they paint their armor a different color; while some factions barely get a single book for all of their differently colored klans.
Imagine if each Klan/Dynasty/HiveFleet/Craftworld got their own book; man, wouldn’t that be something?
It is if you’re a space marine.
Different colors of xenos use the exact same units. World Eaters, Blood Angels, Thousand Sons, etc all have several different units focusing on various other aspects with limitations on selections to boot.
Aye with any army that isnt marines the different subfactions are basically a suggested paint scheme and some traits that give a benefit. Typically those traits are also focused on a specific type of tactics; so if you went ranged you'd go with one subfaction, but if you went heavy close combat you'd pick a different one.
Which makes them more like an upgrade which is why most people who collect other factions just paint them however they want and pick the subfaction for the army list
With marines its a whole different line of models, upgrade parts, heroes and unique units, Spacewolves aren't just marines with a bonus in close combat; they are a totally different army.
Of course in one way its neat, in another its somewhat like getting a lot of army bloat; so I'm ok that there are not 10 different Tyranid Hive fleet armies with 10000 different models and upgrade parts and niche units in one swarm but not another etc...
So anyone think that the harp guy is a clear indication of mortal Slaanesh units and how they'll look.
Hes completely out of place with all current Slaanesh models.
Maybe, but from the different view it looks like it might be a captive Eldar/Elf. Then again it appears to be wearing Slaanesh's symbol. I'm more concerned about the rules, having a basically immobile model in an army focused on speed is an odd choice.
Could be a sort of long range buff/de-buff unit, bit like a farseer on steroids.
Or the harp guy just shuffles on his knees real fast, like the good boy he is.
But it's the least bad option if you absolutely, positively have to introduce bigger Space Marine models.
Frankly, I think option 1 would have annoyed far, far fewer people.
It would have worked even better if they hadn't gone so much bigger with them. It's making them so much larger and differently proportioned that they look out of scale with the existing range that is really the main problem with them being intended for use alongside them. This would be less of an issue if they had been explicitly branded as replacements instead.
They've been doing Option 1 for awhile now. And while there's always a bit of grumbling, in time, that fades because OOP models always inevitably take on the sheen of novelty.
cole1114 wrote: Wait, do people really not like that grey knights/deathwatch have their own armies? I can almost get that for GK because they've got a history of being poorly balanced, but the deathwatch models are fantastic and add a lot to the game IMO.
A different color of marine = whole different book
A different color of Xenos = different faction trait, in the same book
That’s the problem - one faction gets 10+ books because they paint their armor a different color; while some factions barely get a single book for all of their differently colored klans.
Imagine if each Klan/Dynasty/HiveFleet/Craftworld got their own book; man, wouldn’t that be something?
It is if you’re a space marine.
Different colors of xenos use the exact same units. World Eaters, Blood Angels, Thousand Sons, etc all have several different units focusing on various other aspects with limitations on selections to boot.
They use the same units because GW hasn't bothered to give them their own books with their own unique units in. There is nothing stopping them doing this for other factions.
I don't mind Necrons not being a part of the Campaign. Sure sucks we don't get new rules, but we can get past that. If they don't, however, put in the effort to change the current issues with the army aswell with Chapter Approved, then we have a pretty serious issue.
Yodhrin wrote: Besides which, lets get real - the actual reason why we won't get an Imperial Agents codex is that in order to do the concept justice, the rules need to be flexible and highly customisable, which is completely alien to GW's present mode of thinking, which would limit you to Greyfax with whatever weapons are on the model and no more.
I think the main reason we won't see such a codex is because GW has deemed that the codex and associated models would not be profitable for their cost. A stance I agree with honestly.
Yuh-huh. Like Dark Eldar. And Sisters. And GSC.
Or, alternatively; people like good models and fun rules, and if you give Agents those they'll sell as well as anything else that isn't Marines.
cole1114 wrote: Wait, do people really not like that grey knights/deathwatch have their own armies? I can almost get that for GK because they've got a history of being poorly balanced, but the deathwatch models are fantastic and add a lot to the game IMO.
A different color of marine = whole different book
A different color of Xenos = different faction trait, in the same book
That’s the problem - one faction gets 10+ books because they paint their armor a different color; while some factions barely get a single book for all of their differently colored klans.
Imagine if each Klan/Dynasty/HiveFleet/Craftworld got their own book; man, wouldn’t that be something?
It is if you’re a space marine.
Different colors of xenos use the exact same units. World Eaters, Blood Angels, Thousand Sons, etc all have several different units focusing on various other aspects with limitations on selections to boot.
Hive Fleet OuroBoris and Tiamet are perfect candidates to get the "Full Codex, single army" treatment like BA and SW. Tiamet is literally doing the exact opposite of most Hive Fleets and could have a purely defensive roster of unique units. While Ouroboris is said to be made up of creatures from the Imperiums Dark Past, creatures of myth and legend, with very barbaric and rudimentary biomorphs. Clearly a CC focused roster of specialized creatures to resemble ancient monsters would do them fine.
Both are also differently colored, and as of yet have no rules, but are present in the Codex as fluff pieces.
Yodhrin wrote: Besides which, lets get real - the actual reason why we won't get an Imperial Agents codex is that in order to do the concept justice, the rules need to be flexible and highly customisable, which is completely alien to GW's present mode of thinking, which would limit you to Greyfax with whatever weapons are on the model and no more.
I think the main reason we won't see such a codex is because GW has deemed that the codex and associated models would not be profitable for their cost. A stance I agree with honestly.
Yuh-huh. Like Dark Eldar. And Sisters. And GSC.
Or, alternatively; people like good models and fun rules, and if you give Agents those they'll sell as well as anything else that isn't Marines.
The proof of the pudding is in its eating. Buy more Imperial Agents and prove that there's a market if you want new models. Start a petition to get them new models and rules. I'm sure if you (and other fans of Imperial Agents) took steps to prove that there is a market GW will follow the money.
Mr.Church13 wrote: Unfortunately they seem to be slipping back to that 7E mentality with this formation idiocy.
Honestly I hope groups and tourneys both insta ban them on launch.
Actually it really depends. While I agree this is slippery ground, it is also potentially a way for them to give fluffy builds that are less commonly seen a boost. Take for example an all custode strike team, hot trash ATM from a competitive standpoint and largely do to lacking the CP needed (screening is another issue but chaf is another issue) but if they make a custode battalion formation and lets say it only required 1 HQ and troop but also required say 1 elite or FA (just spitballing) but still granted them a normal battalions CP then maybe folks would take it and stop using the loyal 32.
What killed formations before was giving out free transports and gear, free points. If they keep them restrained and use the focus for fluffy builds I could see it being a good thing. Like a nemesis SF with set requirements that lets them get CP and come in from reserve on turn 1 again. It's definitely something they need to be careful with though and I'd rather they focus on getting the detachments we already have sorted out before adding more of them to the game, but I'll at least keep an open mind for now.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
An Actual Englishman wrote: I couldn't agree more with GW with their stance on Imperial Agents. The codex should never have existed in the first place and should, at best, be wrapped up in another codex. They have no place on the battlefield. They'll no doubt give them a mini codex like the Gellarpox Infected which should suffice.
They should roll them back into grey knights, it would fix a lot of the problems that book gained since they removed them.
As they are detachments, I guess they'll still be limited by the rule of three. This means you won't be able to take 5-8 of them to maximise every unit in your army (as apparently each detachment only benefits a very specific type of unit).
If these detachments cost 4-5CP or more (which seems to have been implied in my opinion), you might only see one or two in a list at the very most.
If you read the reddit post a generous user linked to some pages back, it sounds like they just don't like the idea of certain Imperial Agent type units on a full fledged battlefield. They were specifically referring to Rogue Traders, but they said something along the lines of they make what they think is cool and they don't think dudes/dudettes with rapiers and dueling pistols belong in that context.
To me that sounds pretty much that Imperial Agents are now Kill Team's domain so won't get a codex. They'll probably get 40K rules though, but probably more limited than what they can do in the smaller squad level games (less special kit and fancy rules).
Luciferian wrote: If you read the reddit post a generous user linked to some pages back, it sounds like they just don't like the idea of certain Imperial Agent type units on a full fledged battlefield. They were specifically referring to Rogue Traders, but they said something along the lines of they make what they think is cool and they don't think dudes/dudettes with rapiers and dueling pistols belong in that context.
rogue traders probably but inquisitions literally sanction entire guard regiments or space marines to invade or reconquer entire planets.. and considering inquisitors pulls pretty much whatever they want including a huge assortment of imperial agents it’s not that hard to design a codex that focus on small elite detachments.
Luciferian wrote: If you read the reddit post a generous user linked to some pages back, it sounds like they just don't like the idea of certain Imperial Agent type units on a full fledged battlefield. They were specifically referring to Rogue Traders, but they said something along the lines of they make what they think is cool and they don't think dudes/dudettes with rapiers and dueling pistols belong in that context.
That was me who made the massive reddit post. That's pretty much correct - they said models like inquisition, rogue traders, assassins etc. don't fit very well at all. They used Inquisitor Eisenhorn as their main example actually.
To be honest it makes sense. I can see them shifting it so that they might appear as one or two special characters in armies, where an assassin works; but for the greater part armies are supposed to be huge, not the kind of place you get your handful of assassins.
That they've now got several games where they can put such characters into and they will fit really well I think means that GW sees a chance to make more models and fit them into games that better suit them.
Thats where they belong honestly. Having rogue traders be a fully fledged military force would have been strange and they really would have had to stretch it in order to get a playable army.
Red Corsair wrote: Thats where they belong honestly. Having rogue traders be a fully fledged military force would have been strange and they really would have had to stretch it in order to get a playable army.
Except Rogue Traders command forces far exceeding what can be fielded in a typical 40K army...
Kirasu wrote: They'd sell more models if they ditched the incredibly stupid segmentation. A military force should all be able to use the same transports as Primaris can fit fine inside the same ones marines use and vice versa.
The chapter master can't request his own ride, lol such dumb fluff.
This is a "be careful what you wish for" situation.
We once wished that GW would produce models for all the things they wrote rules for. Then Chapterhouse happened. Then GW did end up with models for everything it wrote rules for... except to achieve this they got rid of all the rules for anything that didn't have a model. We got what we wanted, technically, but not in the manner we wanted.
So we may very well get to a point where there's no segmentation, just as you desire, but it will come about because there are no regular Marines.
Niiai wrote: Sooooo... does this means now that Calgar has a new body he can duke it out vs the swarmlord again? :-)
Adding +1T/+1W/+1A for him being a primaris in Gravis... no. He does 3.889 damage to the swarmlord versus the swarmlord doing 6.018 on average. Even if Calgar went first and got his average both times, meaning the swarmlord regressed 1S/1A, it would still do 5.046 damage which would kill Calgar. It's an improvement on the swarmlord just outright killing Calgar in one turn like it does now on average, but still not a win.
Or at least I hope that's all true, I don't know how well mathhammer sites do with D6/D3/etc damage.
