Cyrixiinus wrote: I don't know about AOS elves specifically, but aren't fantasy elves usually stronger than humans?
Elves vary in depictions on strength. Typically they are more agile than men and oftne have materials like mithril which are tough and yet far lighter than normal metals men often have access too.
That said these are magical war aelves from a realm that floats in the sky that isn't carried on the back of four elephants standing on a great space turtle- so anything is possible!! Huge hammers are perfectly fine for me!
Plus don't forget seeing them in the flesh...er plastic, might change your opinion of scale choices. I mean freaking heck most of the pauldrons in fantasy are too big to be practical in battle with some being so large they could never be lifted unless they were totally hollow (thus somewhat defeating the point of them)
Though there is another preview slot next week. Perhaps that will be more interesting.
Yeah who knows, maybe some more Ork releases!
Ah of course the ad hominems from you. Ork releases, or maybe, something worth the "You won't want to miss it!" "Something for every Warhammer fan!" spiel they've been touting?
Physics, in AoS, you are joking right?
This isn’t historical miniatures.
Just about everything defies logic in one way or another.
Then why are they even wielding weapons at all? Why are they built as if gravity exists? You can't just ignore the fundamental rules of the universe, let alone cut some out and assume that everything will still work normally.
But then, I foolishly forgot that criticising GW or their models isn't permitted. Don't worry, I'll show myself out.
Cyrixiinus wrote: I don't know about AOS elves specifically, but aren't fantasy elves usually stronger than humans?
Tolkien elves yes as they were literally superior to humans but fated to fade away. In D&D they were nerfed for sake of balance so strength and durability dropped for increased wisdom, agility and special abilities
tneva82 wrote: gw wasnt also done any favours by reveals being leaked in advance. This is bigger for the majority that hadn't seen leaked stuff yet.
True. Fabius, the Moontain, and the Lion all leaked ahead of time. So really, Eomer and the burns unit were the only true out of nowhere reveals for this stream.
As much as a lot of people don't want to admit it, this week's reveals kinda bombed. Not entirely Games Workshop's fault, mind you. This Corona epidemic has forced them to slow down and shut down their production and stores, and they had to change plans from a presentation at Adepticon to an online reveal, which are both very different things. But, it was Games Workshop's decision to try and spread it over 2 weeks.Assuming they still have plenty of reveals, it was a silly move on their part to try spreading their new reveals this thin. It's only going to disappoint people.
tneva82 wrote: gw wasnt also done any favours by reveals being leaked in advance. This is bigger for the majority that hadn't seen leaked stuff yet.
True. Fabius, the Moontain, and the Lion all leaked ahead of time. So really, Eomer and the burns unit were the only true out of nowhere reveals for this stream.
Eomer was also shown before right in this thread. So it was warcry thing, primaris lietnaunt thingie and the cartoon that were completely new.
Everything is anti climatix if you have already seen it But not much GW can do if things gets leaked. What are they supposed to do? Change whole preview in last minute?
Physics, in AoS, you are joking right?
This isn’t historical miniatures.
Just about everything defies logic in one way or another.
Then why are they even wielding weapons at all? Why are they built as if gravity exists? You can't just ignore the fundamental rules of the universe, let alone cut some out and assume that everything will still work normally.
But then, I foolishly forgot that criticising GW or their models isn't permitted. Don't worry, I'll show myself out.
Literally the opening post shows it’s being streamed.
It’s perfectly fine to criticise models, I’ve never said otherwise.
It just makes me laugh that people expect realism in a fantasy setting.
If that’s the case, it’s the wrong game.
But sure, educate me on how the physics back up magic and it’s use.
I’m sure we can explain it all perfectly.
I really don't understand why they split the reveals over two weeks. Unless the second half is ridiculously meaty, there doesn't appear to be any point to it. Also kind of weird that they didn't leave us with a "Tune in next week for, XXXX!" stinger at the end of this stream. That would have kept more hype going.
Agamemnon2 wrote: I really don't understand why they split the reveals over two weeks. Unless the second half is ridiculously meaty, there doesn't appear to be any point to it. Also kind of weird that they didn't leave us with a "Tune in next week for, XXXX!" stinger at the end of this stream. That would have kept more hype going.
GW is pacing stuff out because they've got at least one month if not two or even three where they can't sell us anything new.
Cyrixiinus wrote: I don't know about AOS elves specifically, but aren't fantasy elves usually stronger than humans?
Tolkien elves yes as they were literally superior to humans but fated to fade away. In D&D they were nerfed for sake of balance so strength and durability dropped for increased wisdom, agility and special abilities
Warhammer Elves in the Old World and the Mortal Realms are more akin to Tolkein ones - at least as strong as humans but faster and more agile. They are also like to be more expereinced as they don't age like humans do.
It’s perfectly fine to criticise models, I’ve never said otherwise.
It just makes me laugh that people expect realism in a fantasy setting.
If that’s the case, it’s the wrong game.
But sure, educate me on how the physics back up magic and it’s use.
I’m sure we can explain it all perfectly.
Fantasy and internal logic and thus believability don't rule each other out though.
There's 2 types of authors. Professionals and those who are "it's magic".
GW is the "it's magic" as they don't have professional quality designers/writers in them.
It’s perfectly fine to criticise models, I’ve never said otherwise.
It just makes me laugh that people expect realism in a fantasy setting.
If that’s the case, it’s the wrong game.
But sure, educate me on how the physics back up magic and it’s use.
I’m sure we can explain it all perfectly.
Fantasy and internal logic and thus believability don't rule each other out though.
There's 2 types of authors. Professionals and those who are "it's magic".
GW is the "it's magic" as they don't have professional quality designers/writers in them.
Sadly I agree and feel it’s around the time of AoS.
Their older fluff was great but fairly generic “fantasy” style.
Assuming they adopted the new style to try and branch out and make it seem different.
And while I agree that logic and fantasy can work together, expecting only logic in a fantasy setting is just setting yourself up for a fall.
nels1031 wrote: I think this seems smaller just by the nature of the format.
Normal Adepticon would have attendee's snapping photos of mini's in glass display cases at different angles and such, giving us a bit more "content".
.
Nope. That isn't it. I pretty much exclusively look at the GW event page for these things, and there's definitely less (and less interesting stuff).
Compare it to the last ones:
Special Character vs a pile of Ad Mech units.
A handful of even weirder elf nonsense vs a pile of units and several characters and an army book and terrain piece for a different army.
The Warcry warband is a good reveal, but where's the Necro, BB, BSF, AD Mech, Underworlds? The LVO and even GAMA reveals had a mix of a lot of stuff, and more of it.
nels1031 wrote: I think this seems smaller just by the nature of the format.
Normal Adepticon would have attendee's snapping photos of mini's in glass display cases at different angles and such, giving us a bit more "content".
.
Nope. That isn't it. I pretty much exclusively look at the GW event page for these things, and there's definitely less (and less interesting stuff).
Compare it to the last ones:
Special Character vs a pile of Ad Mech units.
A handful of even weirder elf nonsense vs a pile of units and several characters and an army book and terrain piece for a different army.
The Warcry warband is a good reveal, but where's the Necro, BB, BSF, AD Mech, Underworlds? The LVO and even GAMA reveals had a mix of a lot of stuff, and more of it.
I actually like these models, but the legs on the Moontain are one of the most disproportionare-looking things I think GW have ever released. I've seen WarmaHordes get accused of having chicken-leg models, but this is worse.
And those helmets... no, just no. That worked for Bretonnia because the Knights of the Realm didn't have helmets three times the size of their own heads.
Spoiler:
But those criticisms aside, I really am digging these new models, just... tell the Moontain to stop skipping leg day, and scale down the helmets.
Reveals depend on the player so I'm sure someone out there is excited for todays offerings.
Was hoping for a Kill Team or Craftworlds preview today. Nothing against Warcry, but its receiving fabulous new releases while Kill Team has been going without for a while now. And that Craftworlds faction box is long overdue...
No one expects GW to crank out a complete overhaul of the CW range, but Warlocks, Rangers and Scorpions would be ideal as they are used in both 40K and Kill Team. An 8-model Storm Guardian kit would also be great, because for the time being its £22.50 for a set of Guardians and then £11 for the resin upgrade sprue.
But today's offerings are good for the relevent players, and the Warrior-cows are quite snazzy.
The helmets on the Elf warriors are absurd, and the weapons? The only reason why they are wielding large hammers is because it will make it more difficult to use your old High Elf models as proxies.
Elves should never use hammers. Maybe it's because I'm old, but it seems like their design was motivated for all of the wrong reasons.
I don't get why they pointed out that there are dead Night Lords on the Lion's base but you can "paint the dead Space Marines in any colour, even black (winks in Heresy)."
No. No you can't.
Normally, yeah, you'd be able to. The dead marines on the bases Alpharius, Corax, Angron, etc are just regularly marines without any distinctinon.
These guys, however are meant to be Night Lords. They literally have the shoulder pads sculpted on, bones tied to the armor, skin being used as cloth, etc. There's no way these are just optional bits you can add to the base XD
I don't get why they bothered adding the line. It's just so unnecessary.
30k Dark Angels aesthetic is just fantastic. Love that crusader helm. Everything from the Forge World range on 30k Dark Angels has perfectly captured the Heresy art.
SamusDrake wrote: Reveals depend on the player so I'm sure someone out there is excited for todays offerings.
Was hoping for a Kill Team or Craftworlds preview today. Nothing against Warcry, but its receiving fabulous new releases while Kill Team has been going without for a while now. And that Craftworlds faction box is long overdue...
No one expects GW to crank out a complete overhaul of the CW range, but Warlocks, Rangers and Scorpions would be ideal as they are used in both 40K and Kill Team. An 8-model Storm Guardian kit would also be great, because for the time being its £22.50 for a set of Guardians and then £11 for the resin upgrade sprue.
But today's offerings are good for the relevent players, and the Warrior-cows are quite snazzy.
Sadly if you did get new Storm Guardians they'd probably be £35 and 5 to a box
Games Workshop has a bad habit of spreading out new releases too thin as is. So now, with this COVID-19 epidemic forcing them to spread their thin reveals even more thin, it makes it look like they don't really have anything. Better option would have been to delay the announcements until mid April and do it all in the same day. Also would have significantly less dead air since they'd have more time to prepare and plan the reveals.
tneva82 wrote: Ah got to love it. 40k community who got most news is also loudest complainers.
Not sure I'd say 40k got the most news from that presentation - I'd argue that would be AOS, or possibly WarCry (with the confirmation there is more to come).
Still, we've only had half the presentation so far.
For what we have had, though, I'd say they raised the hype bar a bit too high.
For what we have had, though, I'd say they raised the hype bar a bit too high.
They put the hype bar in the same place they always put it. It's just that some people get over-excited or set expectations too high or don't ground their expectations in reality. Also I think some people don't appreciate that releases for other armies/games are big things unless the releases touch on armies they personally collect.
Dysartes wrote: For what we have had, though, I'd say they raised the hype bar a bit too high.
They put the hype bar in the same place they always put it. It's just that some people get over-excited or set expectations too high or don't ground their expectations in reality. Also I think some people don't appreciate that releases for other armies/games are big things unless the releases touch on armies they personally collect.
I need to find the WHC reference - I think it was when the Adepticon seminar was initially announced - but the material that is being split between these two streams was described as "the biggest preview ever".
So far, I'd struggle to say that was anywhere near accurate. I wouldn't even describe it as the biggest preview so far this year, with the LVO one currently taking that award.
We'll see if part 2 makes this description feel more accurate.
And they need to do better regarding spoilers - we shouldn't've had the revealed version of the blacked-out graphic available before the start of the stream.
The biggest preview ever talk was all before the cancellation. Splitting the preview into 2 weeks was a great decision because it gives us all a nice destruction from the realities of the world outside and something to look forward to. Yeah there was maybe a little lacking on the 40k side. The only specialist games stuff I am expecting us bloodbowl. Everything else was covered at Gama.
Dysartes wrote: For what we have had, though, I'd say they raised the hype bar a bit too high.
They put the hype bar in the same place they always put it. It's just that some people get over-excited or set expectations too high or don't ground their expectations in reality. Also I think some people don't appreciate that releases for other armies/games are big things unless the releases touch on armies they personally collect.
I need to find the WHC reference - I think it was when the Adepticon seminar was initially announced - but the material that is being split between these two streams was described as "the biggest preview ever".
So far, I'd struggle to say that was anywhere near accurate. I wouldn't even describe it as the biggest preview so far this year, with the LVO one currently taking that award.
We'll see if part 2 makes this description feel more accurate.
And they need to do better regarding spoilers - we shouldn't've had the revealed version of the blacked-out graphic available before the start of the stream.
So pretty standard advertising then. "The biggest sale ever, the biggest preview ever" etc, etc. Same for any business the world over.
They're also effectively working from home to try and do this. When they announced the online previews I'm betting they planned them from inside the studio as well so that there was more for them to talk about/show/discuss by having the models literally to hand or to put on the revolving display camera.
Why people complain that things like this aren't good enough considering the situation at large around the world is baffling.
BroodSpawn wrote: They're also effectively working from home to try and do this. When they announced the online previews I'm betting they planned them from inside the studio as well so that there was more for them to talk about/show/discuss by having the models literally to hand or to put on the revolving display camera.
Why people complain that things like this aren't good enough considering the situation at large around the world is baffling.
Because the images, videos and materials were already made and ready for adepticon, they've not really had to put much extra effort into this beyond making sure some peeps had webcams and time to chat.
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Agamemnon2 wrote: What's with this insistence to give GW all the benefit of doubt, like they simply cannot do wrong?
Tbh I usually would but it was just over hyped and under sold this time imo.
Agamemnon2 wrote: What's with this insistence to give GW all the benefit of doubt, like they simply cannot do wrong?
Are you joking? This forum assumes baseline that GW can do nothing right. Giving people the benefit of the doubt because of an effectively global lockdown is more than fair in this case.
Because the images, videos and materials were already made and ready for adepticon, they've not really had to put much extra effort into this beyond making sure some peeps had webcams and time to chat.
I'd argue that, but then we're going to have to go technical into setting up remote connections. And just because there's a video or 6 made, or a dozen pictures taken, doesn't mean planning/organising/re-scripting a preview event to run out of someones attic compared to being in a studio where they'd had a few weeks to prepare... all of that requires a lot more effort than you're willing to credit them for.
Nobody forced GW to have the preview event on the same day as the original would have been. If it was so terribly hard, maybe they should have postponed it and done it better.
Agamemnon2 wrote: Nobody forced GW to have the preview event on the same day as the original would have been. If it was so terribly hard, maybe they should have postponed it and done it better.
Yes, I’m sure that wouldn’t have met with any complaints at all.
Awesome reveal! High point: Scions of the Flame!
Low: Daft Elves with hammers and Hammer cattle.
Lion did not disappoint, Fabius is a credible update and Éomer is fantastic. Interested in seeing how the Warhammer Storyforge stuff plays out.
Agamemnon2 wrote: What's with this insistence to give GW all the benefit of doubt, like they simply cannot do wrong?
Are you joking? This forum assumes baseline that GW can do nothing right. Giving people the benefit of the doubt because of an effectively global lockdown is more than fair in this case.
Because the images, videos and materials were already made and ready for adepticon, they've not really had to put much extra effort into this beyond making sure some peeps had webcams and time to chat.
I'd argue that, but then we're going to have to go technical into setting up remote connections. And just because there's a video or 6 made, or a dozen pictures taken, doesn't mean planning/organising/re-scripting a preview event to run out of someones attic compared to being in a studio where they'd had a few weeks to prepare... all of that requires a lot more effort than you're willing to credit them for.
They could pre record, they could simply do the reveal without the stream, they could postpone. But there are plenty of tools available for online conferencing, plus they do have experts dedicated to setting up streams.
The point is the hyped up the biggest reveal ever and for the most part showed either parts of a whole in terms of the elven faction or just a single character sculpt.
tneva82 wrote: Ah got to love it. 40k community who got most news is also loudest complainers.
Not sure I'd say 40k got the most news from that presentation - I'd argue that would be AOS, or possibly WarCry (with the confirmation there is more to come).
Still, we've only had half the presentation so far.
For what we have had, though, I'd say they raised the hype bar a bit too high.
Yup, it's a one-two punch of them hyping it up as the bestest most unmissable preview evar! and people still not getting it through their collective skulls that the PA books are historical books. They are set during the Indomitus Crusade and are thus in the past of 40k's "current" timeline. No random surprise Primarchs will appear. No one significant will (permanently) die etc. yet people don't get this and hype themselves up for disappointment.
Agamemnon2 wrote: Nobody forced GW to have the preview event on the same day as the original would have been. If it was so terribly hard, maybe they should have postponed it and done it better.
Oh for feth's sake! A preview was promised, a preview was delivered. And there will be more next week. And no on forced you to watch it. But on next week do us all a favour and just skip the preview, then you effectively get your wish of not having it, and at the same time spare us from your entitled whining.
Agamemnon2 wrote: Nobody forced GW to have the preview event on the same day as the original would have been. If it was so terribly hard, maybe they should have postponed it and done it better.
Yes, I’m sure that wouldn’t have met with any complaints at all.
Considering public events of almost any sort have been cancelled until August, the cancellation of a preview event by GW wouldn't really have amounted to a very large blip on anyone's radar.
Agamemnon2 wrote: Nobody forced GW to have the preview event on the same day as the original would have been. If it was so terribly hard, maybe they should have postponed it and done it better.
Oh for feth's sake! A preview was promised, a preview was delivered. And there will be more next week. And no on forced you to watch it. But on next week do us all a favour and just skip the preview, then you effectively get your wish of not having it, and at the same time spare us from your entitled whining.
I don't think people are bemoaning the quality of the stream, far from, I personally think they did a stellar job given the circumstances. What I and other people have commented on is the absence of substance to the reveals themselves.
Agamemnon2 wrote: Nobody forced GW to have the preview event on the same day as the original would have been. If it was so terribly hard, maybe they should have postponed it and done it better.
Whiners gotta whine, right? With all that's going on in the world, this is what you come to a public forum to bellyache about.
I will admit I was underwhelmed by the reveals because none of what was shown were games I'm currently into to, but that GW put something on at all for us was nice, and I'll still look forward to April 4th reveal. . Maybe they had more originally, maybe not, but everyone's plans have had a wrench thrown in the works. However, GW has done right to protect their employee's health, even if that means you didn't get to see all the toys you wanted to see.
It's been said several times in this thread now that this was going to be "The biggest reveal ever". Just for clarity - there are still people in the world that, when told by marketing material that they're getting about to receive the biggest thing ever, actually expect to receive the biggest thing ever? That seems almost unbelievable to me, but ok.
Agamemnon2 wrote: Nobody forced GW to have the preview event on the same day as the original would have been. If it was so terribly hard, maybe they should have postponed it and done it better.
Whiners gotta whine, right? With all that's going on in the world, this is what you come to a public forum to bellyache about.
Agamemnon2 wrote: Nobody forced GW to have the preview event on the same day as the original would have been. If it was so terribly hard, maybe they should have postponed it and done it better.
Oh for feth's sake! A preview was promised, a preview was delivered. And there will be more next week. And no on forced you to watch it. But on next week do us all a favour and just skip the preview, then you effectively get your wish of not having it, and at the same time spare us from your entitled whining.
I don't think people are bemoaning the quality of the stream, far from, I personally think they did a stellar job given the circumstances. What I and other people have commented on is the absence of substance to the reveals themselves.
A Primarch, a plastic 'greater daemon', and redo of two legendary character models, and then some other stuff on top of that was not enough substance for you? What the hell you were expecting?
Agamemnon2 wrote: Nobody forced GW to have the preview event on the same day as the original would have been. If it was so terribly hard, maybe they should have postponed it and done it better.
Whiners gotta whine, right? With all that's going on in the world, this is what you come to a public forum to bellyache about.
Sure, because we can just go out and game.... Oh wait, no we can't.
We can just go the FLGS down to paint... Oh wait, no we can't.
We can just go up to the local club to shoot the gak and play... Oh wait, no we can't.
People are inside and bored. You'll see a lot more of this, so suck it up as you're in for a long few months.
A 30k primarch is worth less than nothing to most 40k players, for starters. It's still a fairly niche game that only appeals to people who mostly like marine-on-marine combat using the 7th edition rules. Not exactly a massive demographic.
JWBS wrote: It's been said several times in this thread now that this was going to be "The biggest reveal ever". Just for clarity - there are still people in the world that, when told by marketing material that they're getting about to receive the biggest thing ever, actually expect to receive the biggest thing ever? That seems almost unbelievable to me, but ok.
I tend to think marketing people should be held to account when they go OTT.
Even allowing for the fact we're essentially at half-time on the Adepticon seminar, unless some games get additional material next Saturday, the "biggest Warhammer preview ever" will have shown off less new stuff than the LVO event for those games, which is a stupid level of over-hype.
Agamemnon2 wrote: A 30k primarch is worth less than nothing to most 40k players, for starters. It's still a fairly niche game that only appeals to people who mostly like marine-on-marine combat using the 7th edition rules. Not exactly a massive demographic.
Lion was for the HH players and painters/collectors.
I was expecting something out there for aos, but the cow. Even GW showed they get it doesn't fit with elves with their video. They made it into the joke that it is.
When idoneth came out, the showed the models to some podcasters who were really excited and impressed. I wonder if they tried the same thing here and the people were like disappointed and quiet, so they were like "let's do a joke video instead!"
Agamemnon2 wrote: Nobody forced GW to have the preview event on the same day as the original would have been. If it was so terribly hard, maybe they should have postponed it and done it better.
Oh for feth's sake! A preview was promised, a preview was delivered. And there will be more next week. And no on forced you to watch it. But on next week do us all a favour and just skip the preview, then you effectively get your wish of not having it, and at the same time spare us from your entitled whining.
I don't think people are bemoaning the quality of the stream, far from, I personally think they did a stellar job given the circumstances. What I and other people have commented on is the absence of substance to the reveals themselves.
A Primarch, a plastic 'greater daemon', and redo of two legendary character models, and then some other stuff on top of that was not enough substance for you? What the hell you were expecting?
All of that has been par for the course with other GW previews. This one was advertised as the biggest ever.
Things that would constitute that would be a brand new faction (completely unseen, so the Teclis Elves don't count). There's plenty hinted at in AoS that they could just pull out f the blue.
A brand new edition. Obvious really.
A returning Primarch. Now, personally I don't want that, but that is on the top tier level of "Wow holy gak!" stuff that would justify calling it the "biggest ever".
I don't like the Dark Angels, but their models are so nice I plan to pick up a handful, and probably the lion as well. His bare head makes me think he should be fighting General Grevious.
Elves with hammers? I don't see the big deal personally. They don't look like massive war clubs, but what I imagine a Polo mallet would look like in heroic scale.
I just took biggest ever to be amount of things shown, not necessarily the scope of what was shown. And we’ve yet to see either way whether it is or not, with next weeks reveal.
One axe they've already thrown in the air that we know will land eventually are the Sons of Behemat, whoever they are. Last mentioned in the Zoat video, I think.
Wasn't the 'biggest reveal ever' stuff originally referring to the fact that they'd doubled the size and number of seats of the seminar room from last year's adepticon, so referring to the physical size of the reveal, not the content?
MajorWesJanson wrote: I don't like the Dark Angels, but their models are so nice I plan to pick up a handful, and probably the lion as well. His bare head makes me think he should be fighting General Grevious.
Elves with hammers? I don't see the big deal personally. They don't look like massive war clubs, but what I imagine a Polo mallet would look like in heroic scale.
Yeah, I'm not getting the whole Elves not being allowed hammers thing ITT. What do they think Vaul used?
pgmason wrote: Wasn't the 'biggest reveal ever' stuff originally referring to the fact that they'd doubled the size and number of seats of the seminar room from last year's adepticon, so referring to the physical size of the reveal, not the content?
And that there was going to be something for every game.
ImAGeek wrote: I just took biggest ever to be amount of things shown, not necessarily the scope of what was shown. And we’ve yet to see either way whether it is or not, with next weeks reveal.
pgmason wrote: Wasn't the 'biggest reveal ever' stuff originally referring to the fact that they'd doubled the size and number of seats of the seminar room from last year's adepticon, so referring to the physical size of the reveal, not the content?
Love how we're now doing RAI on GW's social media statements...
Agamemnon2 wrote: What's with this insistence to give GW all the benefit of doubt, like they simply cannot do wrong?
Plenty of wrong they did for me on the aelves. But the "bohoo there's too little" is just snowflake entitled whining. They could have announced 40k 9th ed june and aos 3rd for july and they would STILL complain not enough.
Some people just aren't satisfied and are having unrealistic expectations. Or it's like certain guy and if it's not orks it's boring insignificant useless preview.
Seems that the people complaining about the "whiners" are more toxic than the usual suspects today. Seriously, these people insist the bar should be set so low, when it was Games Workshop themselves who raised the bar to begin with. It was also Games Workshop who made the choice to have little to preview this week as well. There is ample room to complain about being disappointed this week. To insist otherwise is honestly just ignorant.
Agamemnon2 wrote: Nobody forced GW to have the preview event on the same day as the original would have been. If it was so terribly hard, maybe they should have postponed it and done it better.
So what? Improve how? More units? You would still have same "too little!". Hell announce redo of entire 40k line and all releases in month? Too little, too boring.,
I honestly thought those Elves with hammers had cow head styled back banners at first, because they are that tall. Then I saw that it is infact their helmets. The new Elves continue to look like something lifted straight from Magic The Gathering.
In some ways I should be thankful that GW continue to butcher their fantasy range, just means I save money.
Agamemnon2 wrote: A 30k primarch is worth less than nothing to most 40k players, for starters. It's still a fairly niche game that only appeals to people who mostly like marine-on-marine combat using the 7th edition rules. Not exactly a massive demographic.
Ah yes. 40k is only thing that matters right.
Well howabout this: fabius is 40k. Not LOTR. Ergo whole preview sucks. Less 40k, more LOTR!
Duh. this is preview for WHOLE GW LINES! Not 40k exclusive.
40k players should be less entitled whiners who demand everything has to be 40k.
Agamemnon2 wrote: Nobody forced GW to have the preview event on the same day as the original would have been. If it was so terribly hard, maybe they should have postponed it and done it better.
So what? Improve how? More units? You would still have same "too little!". Hell announce redo of entire 40k line and all releases in month? Too little, too boring.,
That's a very tenuous assertion, that nothing GW could have done could possibly have been enough. You've chosen to prophesy the behavior of the entire community, me included presumably, and I'm torn between finding that risible and hilarious.
Agamemnon2 wrote: A 30k primarch is worth less than nothing to most 40k players, for starters. It's still a fairly niche game that only appeals to people who mostly like marine-on-marine combat using the 7th edition rules. Not exactly a massive demographic.
Ah yes. 40k is only thing that matters right.
Oh no, if they'd have previewed something for Necromunda, that would have mattered some as well. Or for Titanicus. Or Blood Bowl. They had all kinds of different ways they could have impressed me beyond their excellent remake of Fabulous Bill. They just didn't. But by all means, do continue. Maybe you'll have better luck with the next accusation.
Agamemnon2 wrote: A 30k primarch is worth less than nothing to most 40k players, for starters. It's still a fairly niche game that only appeals to people who mostly like marine-on-marine combat using the 7th edition rules. Not exactly a massive demographic.
Ah yes. 40k is only thing that matters right.
Well howabout this: fabius is 40k. Not LOTR. Ergo whole preview sucks. Less 40k, more LOTR!
Duh. this is preview for WHOLE GW LINES! Not 40k exclusive.
40k players should be less entitled whiners who demand everything has to be 40k.
40k is all that matters to a 40k player. Likewise, LOTR is all that matters to a LOTR player. Seems pretty simple.
Agamemnon2 wrote: Nobody forced GW to have the preview event on the same day as the original would have been. If it was so terribly hard, maybe they should have postponed it and done it better.
So what? Improve how? More units? You would still have same "too little!". Hell announce redo of entire 40k line and all releases in month? Too little, too boring.,
That's a very tenuous assertion, that nothing GW could have done could possibly have been enough. You've chosen to prophesy the behavior of the entire community, me included presumably, and I'm torn between finding that risible and hilarious.
It's been shown multiple times. Some people just never have enough because they expect every reveal is universe shattering reveal.
This was hyped before same as every GW preview before and been of same. If people get dissapointed on this STOP EXPECTING MORE THAN WHAT HAS BEEN BEFORE! GW is following their standard modus operandi of 3 years. If you haven't by now got the memo you are very slow learner.
How many times you need to get exact same hype and reveal amounts before you know this is what you should expect in future?
But... It's demonstrably less than the other two events this year. If people were expecting more, it's because GW promised more, but delivered less than the last two times they did this.
If they want people to be impressed, they need more than 10 models, most of which have already been seen and not lead with niche special characters to boot.
Warcry should have been the model for the rest of the previews this time.
Voss wrote: But... It's demonstrably less than the other two events this year. If people were expecting more, it's because GW promised more, but delivered less than the last two times they did this.
See, that's what I thought too, but it doesn't seem to be so clear for the soulless minions of orthodoxy, so perhaps there's nuances at play that I'm simply missing.
Maybe preview maybe one rules element for each thing for the people who are into playing games with these things. get people talking about that side of things too.
Who’s in for flooding the twitch channel next week with requests for POD Karloth Valois with his Necromunda gang of scavvies? Or is a gang of scalies and plague zombies too soon?
I don't think flooding the twitch channel would accomplish anything signficant, if for no other reason than because it was already flooded with all kinds of garbage tonight.
Ah of course the ad hominems from you. Ork releases, or maybe, something worth the "You won't want to miss it!" "Something for every Warhammer fan!" spiel they've been touting?
Aren't Ork releases the only thing worth that spiel anyway? That's what I got!
Chikout wrote: Splitting the preview into 2 weeks was a great decision because it gives us all a nice destruction from the realities of the world outside and something to look forward to.
I assume it was an autocorrect typo and it was meant to be distraction, not destruction, but I love this typo .
vipoid wrote: Indeed, why are elves using preposterously-large hammers? Thunder Hammers are iffy enough and those are being wielded by men in power armour. These are elves.
Sorry, I know that this will seem like nitpicking to some but for me this beaks my immersion entirely as there is simply no way they'd be able to wield those things.
It's a game where you have people using ANVILS as weapons. FLAMING ANVILS THAT ARE CHAINED.
Hammers are just less ridiculous than that. Everything I ever heard about being used as weapons is less ridiculous than that lol.
For next time, they should see about tweaking the format a bit, the 2-5 minute breaks after each chat spaced things out too much needlessly at least as far as the stream audience was concerned. I suspect that was partially due to them wanting to release the blog updates at 15 minute increments, and to also make sure each guest was ready and there were no video or audio issues (to GW's credit, there weren't, which is no small feat considering they've never streamed stuff like this before)
I wonder what the Hammer Elves would look like with standard High Elf pointy hats. Remove the weird bulls completely ('cause the lower parts of the helmet look great) and have it taper to a point, old skool style.
Agamemnon2 wrote: For next time, they should see about tweaking the format a bit, the 2-5 minute breaks after each chat spaced things out too much needlessly at least as far as the stream audience was concerned. I suspect that was partially due to them wanting to release the blog updates at 15 minute increments, and to also make sure each guest was ready and there were no video or audio issues (to GW's credit, there weren't, which is no small feat considering they've never streamed stuff like this before)
I assumed it was because they had to change the feed for each guest, each of whom was most likely in a different location.
Agamemnon2 wrote: For next time, they should see about tweaking the format a bit, the 2-5 minute breaks after each chat spaced things out too much needlessly at least as far as the stream audience was concerned. I suspect that was partially due to them wanting to release the blog updates at 15 minute increments, and to also make sure each guest was ready and there were no video or audio issues (to GW's credit, there weren't, which is no small feat considering they've never streamed stuff like this before)
I assumed it was because they had to change the feed for each guest, each of whom was most likely in a different location.
And using different gear - heck one persons webcam was so bad/glitching he didn't appear and was only done via voice (with a little funny note that his webcam was rubbish)
I think it was sensibly done to have pauses, remembering that the person running the stream wasn't working from the office, but also from home. Had he been working from the main office with a small team he likely could have kept talking whilst someone else checked the feed and make sure the next person was ready; doing it alone he's got to do all that and make sure the twitch kept running etc... Plus update the static site as well.
BrianDavion wrote: so because they say fabius was the last of the classic csm chars, did they forget Lucius or is he a later addition?
Lucius is much later. The 2nd ed Chaos codex had Abaddon, Kharn, Ahriman, Fabius Bile, and Huron Blackheart. The 3rd edition one added Doomrider, and the 4th ed one finally gave us Lucius and Typhus.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I wonder what the Hammer Elves would look like with standard High Elf pointy hats. Remove the weird bulls completely ('cause the lower parts of the helmet look great) and have it taper to a point, old skool style.
Theres always room for improvement for sure but working remotely is a pain... Been doing so for a week and its hard to adjust.
So good show overall, not an easy task to pull off smoothly under these circumstances.
For curiosity sake isn't the fella from LOTR the same that worked for Prodos at Salute? I think I remember him..
BrianDavion wrote: so because they say fabius was the last of the classic csm chars, did they forget Lucius or is he a later addition?
Lucius is much later. The 2nd ed Chaos codex had Abaddon, Kharn, Ahriman, Fabius Bile, and Huron Blackheart. The 3rd edition one added Doomrider, and the 4th ed one finally gave us Lucius and Typhus.
3.5 gave us Lucius and Typhus. Huron Blackheart was reinstated in the 4th ed abomination of a codex.
Ach, I forgot there was that second 3rd edition book. One day, though... DOOMRIDER is going to return. I.e. the worst conceived character the game had had at that point.
Agamemnon2 wrote: Ach, I forgot there was that second 3rd edition book. One day, though... DOOMRIDER is going to return. I.e. the worst conceived character the game had had at that point.
Korsorro Khan killed him in a black library story and walked off with his head. But he's a daemon, so he'll be back. Right?
tneva82 wrote: This was hyped before same as every GW preview before and been of same.
No, no it wasn't.
Compare and contrast the WHC articles prior to the LVO preview and the one talking up the Adepticon preview (I posted the links earlier in the thread).
I don't think anyone can claim they are being presented with the same level of hype and keep a straight face.
BrianDavion wrote: so because they say fabius was the last of the classic csm chars, did they forget Lucius or is he a later addition?
Lucius is much later. The 2nd ed Chaos codex had Abaddon, Kharn, Ahriman, Fabius Bile, and Huron Blackheart. The 3rd edition one added Doomrider, and the 4th ed one finally gave us Lucius and Typhus.
Also Cypher, though I don't think he got a model until 3rd ed.
Doombreed and Foulspawn too wasn't it (N'kari and M'kachen? Though they never got models and disappeared in later books.
I wonder if they'll turn up later in the Heresy books, as I think apart from M'kachen they seem to have been adopted into the novel series.
BrianDavion wrote: so because they say fabius was the last of the classic csm chars, did they forget Lucius or is he a later addition?
man war of the spider has a lot of exciting stuff,
First four were Abaddon, Kharn, Fabius and Ahriman. Personally I think Kharn and Ahriman may each be due another resculpt considering how good Bile and Abaddon are.
BrianDavion wrote: so because they say fabius was the last of the classic csm chars, did they forget Lucius or is he a later addition?
man war of the spider has a lot of exciting stuff,
First four were Abaddon, Kharn, Fabius and Ahriman. Personally I think Kharn and Ahriman may each be due another resculpt considering how good Bile and Abaddon are.
BrianDavion wrote: so because they say fabius was the last of the classic csm chars, did they forget Lucius or is he a later addition?
man war of the spider has a lot of exciting stuff,
First four were Abaddon, Kharn, Fabius and Ahriman. Personally I think Kharn and Ahriman may each be due another resculpt considering how good Bile and Abaddon are.
H.B.M.C. wrote:I wonder what the Hammer Elves would look like with standard High Elf pointy hats. Remove the weird bulls completely ('cause the lower parts of the helmet look great) and have it taper to a point, old skool style.
In the studio scheme, a bit too much like clansmen.
Think about it from the perspective of someone not immersed in warhammer. Flowing white robs with pointy hats. What jumps into your mind?
lol, I can imagine the design meeting:
Concept artist: So being from the realm of light, they'll all wear white. And have the iconic pointed hats of the elves.
Co-worker: How about we have the realm of light motif also be the big head dress like the Cypher lords
Concept artist: Why?
Co-worker: No reason...
Chamberlain wrote: Think about it from the perspective of someone not immersed in warhammer. Flowing white robs with pointy hats. What jumps into your mind?
Chamberlain wrote: Think about it from the perspective of someone not immersed in warhammer. Flowing white robs with pointy hats. What jumps into your mind?
lol, I can imagine the design meeting:
Concept artist: So being from the realm of light, they'll all wear white. And have the iconic pointed hats of the elves.
Co-worker: How about we have the realm of light motif also be the big head dress like the Cypher lords
Concept artist: Why?
Co-worker: No reason...
You have read the lore for the Cypher Lords that says they're from Hysh just like the Lumineth?
Also I seem to recall that High Elves have worn white robes for like the last thirty years or so (and not the off-white that the Lumineth wear).
Chamberlain wrote: Think about it from the perspective of someone not immersed in warhammer. Flowing white robs with pointy hats. What jumps into your mind?
Catholicism.
All those catholics with their faces obscured?
Ghaz wrote:You have read the lore for the Cypher Lords that says they're from Hysh just like the Lumineth?
Yes. Which makes it the natural direction to go in if you don't want guys with hidden faces, white robes and pointy hats.
I’m sorry, but considering the AoS realm and 40k universe, that’s pretty minor.
When genocide and slavery are common parts of stories I think it’s past the point of what would little timmy think.
I guess there’s a link to anything if you look hard enough though and spin a few images.
Agamemnon2 wrote: Nobody forced GW to have the preview event on the same day as the original would have been. If it was so terribly hard, maybe they should have postponed it and done it better.
Whiners gotta whine, right? With all that's going on in the world, this is what you come to a public forum to bellyache about.
I'm surprised you can reach down to type from all the way up on your high horse there. I'm sorry us poor plebs aren't in accord with your rarified sensibilities, you sanctimonious windbag.
Sanctimonious, eh? Hardly, you're the one crying about not getting to see more toys -- the preview of said toys [bold] disrupted [/bold] by worldwide pandemic. LOL.
The hammer doods would look much better if their helmets were closer to the regular infantry and cypher lords (but with a bull motif) and less old high elves with another bull helmet plopped on top
They showed us some new stuff, had a bit of a laugh - handy to distract people from the real world issues - which lets face it are quite serious for everyone at the moment.
Jackal90 wrote: I’m sorry, but considering the AoS realm and 40k universe, that’s pretty minor.
When genocide and slavery are common parts of stories I think it’s past the point of what would little timmy think.
I guess there’s a link to anything if you look hard enough though and spin a few images.
There’s a big difference from “This mini portrays a genocidal monster: her personally electro-vaporized a trillion blarns!” and “This miniature reminds me of the guy who lynched my great uncle.”
Jackal90 wrote: I’m sorry, but considering the AoS realm and 40k universe, that’s pretty minor.
When genocide and slavery are common parts of stories I think it’s past the point of what would little timmy think.
I guess there’s a link to anything if you look hard enough though and spin a few images.
There’s a big difference from “This mini portrays a genocidal monster: her personally electro-vaporized a trillion blarns!” and “This miniature reminds me of the guy who lynched my great uncle.”
If a mini reminds me of the person that lynched my great uncle then should that mini be cancelled?
Jackal90 wrote: I’m sorry, but considering the AoS realm and 40k universe, that’s pretty minor.
When genocide and slavery are common parts of stories I think it’s past the point of what would little timmy think.
I guess there’s a link to anything if you look hard enough though and spin a few images.
There’s a big difference from “This mini portrays a genocidal monster: her personally electro-vaporized a trillion blarns!” and “This miniature reminds me of the guy who lynched my great uncle.”
GW wisely avoided it by deviating from that part of the old world high elf design when making a design that works with a white paint scheme. Let's be clear that it's not GW advocating for the head swap as looking better.
Jackal90 wrote: I’m sorry, but considering the AoS realm and 40k universe, that’s pretty minor.
When genocide and slavery are common parts of stories I think it’s past the point of what would little timmy think.
I guess there’s a link to anything if you look hard enough though and spin a few images.
There’s a big difference from “This mini portrays a genocidal monster: her personally electro-vaporized a trillion blarns!” and “This miniature reminds me of the guy who lynched my great uncle.”
If a mini reminds me of the person that lynched my great uncle then should that mini be cancelled?
??
That’s not what is being discussed.
He conversation was:
“I can see why GW didn’t want a bunch of characters in white robes and pointy hats with their faces covered.”
“I can’t.”
“Well, people who are ignorant of fantasy elves might first think of the Klan.”
“The Warhammer factions do way worse stuff in their stories than the Klan, so why would that be a problem?”
(And this is where I responded.)
If a mini reminds me of the person that lynched my great uncle then should that mini be cancelled?
GW didn't make the miniatures that way. Some people are advocating for a simple change to the miniatures to make them look better, but unfortunately don't see what they're making as a result.
Jackal90 wrote: I’m sorry, but considering the AoS realm and 40k universe, that’s pretty minor.
When genocide and slavery are common parts of stories I think it’s past the point of what would little timmy think.
I guess there’s a link to anything if you look hard enough though and spin a few images.
There’s a big difference from “This mini portrays a genocidal monster: her personally electro-vaporized a trillion blarns!” and “This miniature reminds me of the guy who lynched my great uncle.”
These days a cloud could offend some people as it resembles something to them.
Problems are generally only there if you dig endlessly to make them appear.
White robes aren’t inherently bad or evil.
Assuming anything that has them is as such is just plain stupidity.
Personally, I think the elves look great either way, as I am a fan of the big hats and the pointy hats. Snipped Bull Head hats can even make for some fun Chaos Dwarf hat toppers.
I never paint my minis anyway, so the white robes won’t be an issue for me. . But I see the reasoning and decided to comment.
If a mini reminds me of the person that lynched my great uncle then should that mini be cancelled?
GW didn't make the miniatures that way. Some people are advocating for a simple change to the miniatures to make them look better, but unfortunately don't see what they're making as a result.
That's not what they're making as a result, that's what you're seeing as a result, and even if they were making explicitly that (as GW have done before), the hypothetical feelings of a hypothetical person aren't a good enough reason to not do it, just like it's not a good enough reason to stop someone writing about it, or drawing it, or singing about it, or making a film about it. God how I hate censorship rationalised by social justice.
If a mini reminds me of the person that lynched my great uncle then should that mini be cancelled?
GW didn't make the miniatures that way. Some people are advocating for a simple change to the miniatures to make them look better, but unfortunately don't see what they're making as a result.
That's not what they're making as a result, that's what you're seeing as a result, and even if they were making explicitly that (as GW have done before), the hypothetical feelings of a hypothetical person aren't a good enough reason to not do it, just like it's not a good enough reason to stop someone writing about it, or drawing it, or singing about it, or making a film about it. God how I hate censorship rationalised by social justice.
No one is advocating censorship or cancellation of anything.
Go ahead and make a max sized unit of hidden face pointy hat guys in white robes. Just don't be surprised when people react to them. across the table they are going to look like a unit of clansmen.
If that's what you want, go for it. Each time someone reacts you can explain to them the history of high elf helmet design and what you're really doing is making them old skool.
Chamberlain wrote: All I'm saying is that "old skool" high elf helmet + white robes is probably not the fix you want to go for
My favoured fix would be cypher lord style bull motif helmets. and replace the mallets with axes or some sort of pole arm.
Because kkk?
Last time i checked they don't wear filigran armor, or helmets.
They also don't have a monopoly of white robes and the association with them.
Infact if they were colourfull i'd have said they are out off my local Fasnacht(carneval) including white.
Jackal90 wrote: I’m sorry, but considering the AoS realm and 40k universe, that’s pretty minor.
When genocide and slavery are common parts of stories I think it’s past the point of what would little timmy think.
I guess there’s a link to anything if you look hard enough though and spin a few images.
There’s a big difference from “This mini portrays a genocidal monster: her personally electro-vaporized a trillion blarns!” and “This miniature reminds me of the guy who lynched my great uncle.”
These days a cloud could offend some people as it resembles something to them.
Problems are generally only there if you dig endlessly to make them appear.
White robes aren’t inherently bad or evil.
Assuming anything that has them is as such is just plain stupidity.
A) please link me to an article where a cloud sparked some outrage.
B). We aren’t talking about clouds.
C). If you think creating an accidental yet obvious reference to a real world hate group is snowflake pearl clutching, please wear a “Charlie Chaplin mustache” on your face and add one to your Facebook picture and let me know how people don’t treat you any differently.
If a mini reminds me of the person that lynched my great uncle then should that mini be cancelled?
GW didn't make the miniatures that way. Some people are advocating for a simple change to the miniatures to make them look better, but unfortunately don't see what they're making as a result.
That's not what they're making as a result, that's what you're seeing as a result, and even if they were making explicitly that (as GW have done before), the hypothetical feelings of a hypothetical person aren't a good enough reason to not do it, just like it's not a good enough reason to stop someone writing about it, or drawing it, or singing about it, or making a film about it. God how I hate censorship rationalised by social justice.
No one is advocating censorship or cancellation of anything.
Go ahead and make a max sized unit of hidden face pointy hat guys in white robes. Just don't be surprised when people react to them. across the table they are going to look like a unit of clansmen.
If that's what you want, go for it. Each time someone reacts you can explain to them the history of high elf helmet design and what you're really doing is making them old skool.
So should we also not paint any guard in DPM in case it offends people?
I’ve seen tons of night goblins with white robes (they actually look great in that colour) and never seen complaints about them.
Also, should we ban skaven slaves as slavery should not be there either?
Chamberlain wrote: All I'm saying is that "old skool" high elf helmet + white robes is probably not the fix you want to go for
My favoured fix would be cypher lord style bull motif helmets. and replace the mallets with axes or some sort of pole arm.
Because kkk?
Last time i checked they don't wear filigran armor, or helmets.
They also don't have a monopoly of white robes and the association with them.
Infact if they were colourfull i'd have said they are out off my local Fasnacht if anything.
Clearly there are variations in local culture. I’m far more likely to see some guy in Klan robes, even with filigree, than I am to see a Fasnacht.
If a mini reminds me of the person that lynched my great uncle then should that mini be cancelled?
GW didn't make the miniatures that way. Some people are advocating for a simple change to the miniatures to make them look better, but unfortunately don't see what they're making as a result.
That's not what they're making as a result, that's what you're seeing as a result, and even if they were making explicitly that (as GW have done before), the hypothetical feelings of a hypothetical person aren't a good enough reason to not do it, just like it's not a good enough reason to stop someone writing about it, or drawing it, or singing about it, or making a film about it. God how I hate censorship rationalised by social justice.
No one is advocating censorship or cancellation of anything.
Go ahead and make a max sized unit of hidden face pointy hat guys in white robes. Just don't be surprised when people react to them. across the table they are going to look like a unit of clansmen.
If that's what you want, go for it. Each time someone reacts you can explain to them the history of high elf helmet design and what you're really doing is making them old skool.
So should we also not paint any guard in DPM in case it offends people?
I’ve seen tons of night goblins with white robes (they actually look great in that colour) and never seen complaints about them.
Also, should we ban skaven slaves as slavery should not be there either?
No one is saying to ban anything. Where are you getting that idea?
Goblins are not human, also are evil, so the Klan confusion is moot. Even if someone thinks they are supposed to be Klan gobbos, they likely won’t take it as an endorsement of the klan.
Reading through this thread, I didn't know so many people are upset that the next new Primaris marine unit hasn't been revealed yet. I know it has been a long, long while since the last non-faction specific Primaris release but don't worry. There is still next week, and if not then; I am sure sometime during the rest of the year we will be seeing something new. I get it. I don't like going more than 6 months without a new Primaris space marine model too as each new kit is always bigger and more exciting reveal than the last. I am giddy just thinking about what it could be to make everyone's model collection even better. Man, I hope it is some kind of Lieutenant. Just the same, there's no need to get snippy about it. It will happen. We just have to reach down into a personal well of fortitude and struggle on. Well we make it, and it will be glorious.
DPM - disruptive pattern material.
Typical MoD camouflage.
Elves look human at tabletop distances. They are visually identical to humans with pointy ears. Anyone ignorant of elf aesthetics could easily mistake them. Goblins are unmistakeably inhuman.
If a mini reminds me of the person that lynched my great uncle then should that mini be cancelled?
GW didn't make the miniatures that way. Some people are advocating for a simple change to the miniatures to make them look better, but unfortunately don't see what they're making as a result.
That's not what they're making as a result, that's what you're seeing as a result, and even if they were making explicitly that (as GW have done before), the hypothetical feelings of a hypothetical person aren't a good enough reason to not do it, just like it's not a good enough reason to stop someone writing about it, or drawing it, or singing about it, or making a film about it. God how I hate censorship rationalised by social justice.
No one is advocating censorship or cancellation of anything.
Go ahead and make a max sized unit of hidden face pointy hat guys in white robes. Just don't be surprised when people react to them. across the table they are going to look like a unit of clansmen.
If that's what you want, go for it. Each time someone reacts you can explain to them the history of high elf helmet design and what you're really doing is making them old skool.
I won't do that. What concerns ne (a lot, as it happens), is that someone can't write a novel about sci-fi clansmen, or make a film about sci-fi nazis, or paint a picture depicting anime-anything-at-all-that-might-offend-a-hypothetical-person-that-might-not-even-exist, and we will all be the poorer for it. To say that the prospect irritates me greatly is an understatement. I hope it doesn't happen. People, at last, seem to be fighting back against it, and I hope the course is corrected if not soon then eventually.
Saturmorn Carvilli wrote: Reading through this thread, I didn't know so many people are upset that the next new Primaris marine unit hasn't been revealed yet. I know it has been a long, long while since the last non-faction specific Primaris release but don't worry. There is still next week, and if not then; I am sure sometime during the rest of the year we will be seeing something new. I get it. I don't like going more than 6 months without a new Primaris space marine model too as each new kit is always bigger and more exciting reveal than the last. I am giddy just thinking about what it could be to make everyone's model collection even better. Man, I hope it is some kind of Lieutenant. Just the same, there's no need to get snippy about it. It will happen. We just have to reach down into a personal well of fortitude and struggle on. Well we make it, and it will be glorious.
Don’t worry, the exclusive model was a Primaris, they got this gak locked down!
DPM - disruptive pattern material.
Typical MoD camouflage.
Elves look human at tabletop distances. They are visually identical to humans with pointy ears. Anyone ignorant of elf aesthetics could easily mistake them. Goblins are unmistakeably inhuman.
What’s MoD?
You think someone that doesn’t know about elves wouldn’t find the pink topless daemons weird or offensive either?
I won't do that. What concerns ne (a lot, as it happens), is that someone can't write a novel about sci-fi clansmen, or make a film about sci-fi nazis.
You think someone that doesn’t know about elves wouldn’t find the pink topless daemons weird or offensive either?
Ministry of defence.
Basically just military camouflage.
I would expect those people to be absolutely aghast at any nudity. There’s a lot of stuff in WH that can easily be misinterpreted. As you’ve read, I also plan to never pay $55 for 5 aelves snip off some hats to make them pointy. I was simply pointing out that, yes, white pointy hats and robes can be misinterpreted. That’s it. No bans. No shame (beyond what any Warhammer should naturally feel playing with mandollies). No admonitions. Just, “yeah, I can see why that might bother some people.”
Chamberlain wrote: All I'm saying is that "old skool" high elf helmet + white robes is probably not the fix you want to go for
My favoured fix would be cypher lord style bull motif helmets. and replace the mallets with axes or some sort of pole arm.
Because kkk?
Last time i checked they don't wear filigran armor, or helmets.
They also don't have a monopoly of white robes and the association with them.
Infact if they were colourfull i'd have said they are out off my local Fasnacht if anything.
Clearly there are variations in local culture. I’m far more likely to see some guy in Klan robes, even with filigree, than I am to see a Fasnacht.
So what, what came first a tradition from the medieval era or some mentally challanged morons believing in clerical fascism?
If i want a Fasnacht Theme i will get it !
No Quarter or mercy given.
The hell i give up Fasnacht because a bunch or idiots decided to Steal that costume, infact i would ridicule them even Harder in the Spirit of Fasnacht.
I won't do that. What concerns ne (a lot, as it happens), is that someone can't write a novel about sci-fi clansmen, or make a film about sci-fi nazis.
You think someone that doesn’t know about elves wouldn’t find the pink topless daemons weird or offensive either?
Ministry of defence.
Basically just military camouflage.
I would expect those people to be absolutely aghast at any nudity. There’s a lot of stuff in WH that can easily be misinterpreted. As you’ve read, I also plan to never pay $55 for 5 aelves snip off some hats to make them pointy. I was simply pointing out that, yes, white pointy hats and robes can be misinterpreted. That’s it. No bans. No shame (beyond what any Warhammer should naturally feel playing with mandollies). No admonitions. Just, “yeah, I can see it.”
My point was more that’s there’s directly a lot of potentially more offensive things that are direct in this game.
I understand you are middle of the road, but I’m just saying that some will dig until they find an issue.
And military camouflage does indeed offend some people.
More so if it’s German camouflage (even if not the old pattern)
People instantly think worst case scenario.
Chamberlain wrote: All I'm saying is that "old skool" high elf helmet + white robes is probably not the fix you want to go for
My favoured fix would be cypher lord style bull motif helmets. and replace the mallets with axes or some sort of pole arm.
Because kkk?
Last time i checked they don't wear filigran armor, or helmets.
They also don't have a monopoly of white robes and the association with them.
Infact if they were colourfull i'd have said they are out off my local Fasnacht if anything.
Clearly there are variations in local culture. I’m far more likely to see some guy in Klan robes, even with filigree, than I am to see a Fasnacht.
So what, what came first a tradition from the medieval era or some mentally challanged morons believing in clerical fascism?
If i want a Fasnacht Theme i will get it !
No Quarter or mercy given.
The hell i give up Fasnacht because a bunch or idiots decided to Steal that costume, infact i would ridicule them even Harder in the Spirit of Fasnacht.
??
Go ahead?
Americans might see American iconography in minis in America. Other locations have their own unique iconographies. Why are you responding with apparent outrage that people thousands of miles away from you are discussing local cultural issues you don’t have to experience?
People please, stick to the topic and keep rule #1 in mind, the amount of alerts this topic is generating is on the wrong side of hilarious at this point.
My post was an example and not even offensive, what the feth?
Either way, I think chop the cow heads off entirely or use them as masks instead.
Head ornaments work well for bretts, but they are far smaller.
Just looks like they’d be better without them or as masks instead.
On an different note, I’ve seen some rules for the lion floating around:
from Andy Hoare:
- Lion has a strength of 7, Wolf Blade gives +3 (so he hits at S10)
- You take the Lion Sword if you want to kill general stuff and the Wolf Blade if you want to kill monsters
I know this is a typo but, dammit, now I want an Aelf offshoot that lives in massive living city-mountains somewhere on Ghur, all of them in constant telepathic contact for so many generations that only a few now living are capable of normal speech.
Fenrir Kitsune wrote: Fabius - nice but a bit pointless if you already own him as identical.
It's not even remotely identical. The pose is the same, but the actual sculpt is a rather clear example of just how far things have progressed in the last 25 years. Even with being plastic, it has much crisper detail than the original model, and I love the more elegant look of the new chirurgen.
Elves - cow is weird and the units a bit too KKK looking.
It would be really great if we could all drop the KKK comparisons, to avoid any further silliness.
Fenrir Kitsune wrote: Fabius - nice but a bit pointless if you already own him as identical.
It's not even remotely identical. The pose is the same, but the actual sculpt is a rather clear example of just how far things have progressed in the last 25 years. Even with being plastic, it has much crisper detail than the original model, and I love the more elegant look of the new chirurgen.
First off, 40,000 plus peak viewers. That surprised me especially as in some places (US West Coast, Australia) the time of the live stream was exactly prime time and likely depressed viewership in those areas. Considering the constraints GW is operating under at the moment to produce the live stream, kudos to them regardless.
As for the reveals
Storyforge - Some promise in the cuts shown, but also a lot to be worried about. Given level of quality seen and hints on the story, I am a little bit pessimistic that GW is hedging a bit and not really all in as they should be on this type of endeavor.
Aelves – I like it for the most part when GW doesn’t take themselves to seriously, but that video was almost too tongue in cheek and for a faction like the Aelves, it seemed a tad too buffoonish. The minis themselves on first glance look good, but in context seems out of place. Though I really do like the paint job on Alarith. Probably one of those lines that will take time to get use too much like Deepkin as both now are forcing us to reconsider our preconceived notions about "High" Aelves. That said, I don’t consider myself the target audience as I don’t have much interest in the faction other than their overall place in the IP and effect on gameplay.
Eomer – Don’t collect or play so initial reaction is “meh”. But, without trying to compare it to how Keith Urban looks in the movie, I really like the sculpt and the options.
Fabius Bile – Great, if uninspired, update to the model. More excited though about the hints on the PA book and the factions involved.
Warcry – First I like how they are using the setting to explore the different themes and aspects of Chaos devotees and am a fan of the game system. That said, the depictions of fire on the minis distracts and it seems the sculpts are too rough. May be it’s the paint jobs, but the details seem a mess. On first glance is a pass.
The Lion – Honestly I think it is the best Primarch model to date. Both head options look good. I don’t play 30K and haven’t collected any of the Primarch’s to date, but I think I get this one.
Primaris Lieutenant – We have seen before, and compared to other exclusive models, it’s okay. I am a fan of open poses and like this one. I am just glad that I have the option to buy him direct from GW. I know it is a self serving move by GW which obvously needs to recoup the investment in the design, mold and tooling costs. Wish they would do limted time only made to order windown on all their event exclusives as it would provide an option for people like me who really can't get to these events or visit the two retail locations where they are sometimes? available.
If a mini reminds me of the person that lynched my great uncle then should that mini be cancelled?
GW didn't make the miniatures that way. Some people are advocating for a simple change to the miniatures to make them look better, but unfortunately don't see what they're making as a result.
That's not what they're making as a result, that's what you're seeing as a result, and even if they were making explicitly that (as GW have done before), the hypothetical feelings of a hypothetical person aren't a good enough reason to not do it, just like it's not a good enough reason to stop someone writing about it, or drawing it, or singing about it, or making a film about it. God how I hate censorship rationalised by social justice.
No one is advocating censorship or cancellation of anything.
Go ahead and make a max sized unit of hidden face pointy hat guys in white robes. Just don't be surprised when people react to them. across the table they are going to look like a unit of clansmen.
If that's what you want, go for it. Each time someone reacts you can explain to them the history of high elf helmet design and what you're really doing is making them old skool.
Drop that line of conversation meant drop it. Not dial it up further - ingtær.
Whomever sculpted new Fabius threw away all the character of the previous version.
High, er Cow Elves? That cow motif is nonsensical. Those helmets are U-G-L-Y, they ain't got no alibi! More of GW desperately grasping for something "distinct" for IP protection.
Eomer looks good, I bet his price tag won't be with those options.
I was genuinely surprised we did not see "Engine War" related announcements. There was a very heavy implication of there still being a few goodies for AdMech back at the LVO.
Part of the promo for the Adepticon seminar seemed to be around there being something for every fan - which, by extension, you could take to mean something for every game.
Of the games currently in production, that would mean we should see content for Necromunda, Blood Bowl, Blackstone Fortress, Adeptus Titanicus, Warhammer Underworlds and Aeronautica Imperialis.
Some of this, of course, could be Forge World material, especially for Necromunda (as I think we're too far ahead to see anything from the book after the Escher book).
At this point, I'm honestly not sure if we'll see any more for 40k or AOS, even though Engine War could do with additional previews, and the Book of Giants could do with an official announcement. In the case of Engine War, though, it is possible that the AdMech stuff is the only miniature support for that book.
I don't expect to see anything for necromunda, Aeronautica or titanicus next week as they got some reveals at Gama.
Possibly a bloodbowl team
Definitely more Lumineth
Possibly a sons of Behemat tease
Possibly something for killteam or Blackstone
Possibly 40k 9th or new primaries.
They may have decided to hold back some things in light of the production delays. They could end up as much as 3 months behind schedule before the lockdown ends.
BrookM wrote: Hopefully Catachans, though curious to see how the Primaris bikers will turn out.
I'd happy for any rework of any guard regiment.
To say that neither the catachans nor cadians have aged well is an understatement.
The primaris don't particuallry interest me beyond guns.
I'd be more interested into potential New Men from bile. Nothing aginst fabulous, but his creations allways were more interesting, which is good for a craftsman.
Kanluwen wrote: I was genuinely surprised we did not see "Engine War" related announcements. There was a very heavy implication of there still being a few goodies for AdMech back at the LVO.
Eh are 7 new units and the biggest single faction PA release to date not enough?
On what I want to see for the next reveal - more Orks, obviously!
In seriousness I'd quite like a new edition announcement, 8th is becoming too convoluted now. I'd also like to see releases for factions other than Marines - Tyranids, Dark Eldar, Necrons have all done very poorly out of GW since 8th dropped. They're due some love.
If GW had a new edition on the cards for this summer I could see them shelving it till Christmas or even next year.
Edition changes are huge things and GW is already shutting down its factories for at least a month if not two months near enough. That's a huge backlog right there just in terms of producing what people currently want before you add all the months of new things to add.
Plus whilst the recovery might be fairly swift (we hope) there's still going to be a lag time as people get on top of debts, get jobs back and things get going again. That's before we consider the potential for hiccups along the way; plus the fact that different countries are at different stages. So the UK might recover but the US market might be locked down for months longer.
Time is not ripe for a new edition, but all the rules and material would keep for a 6 month to longer period.
Overread wrote: If GW had a new edition on the cards for this summer I could see them shelving it till Christmas or even next year.
Edition changes are huge things and GW is already shutting down its factories for at least a month if not two months near enough. That's a huge backlog right there just in terms of producing what people currently want before you add all the months of new things to add.
Plus whilst the recovery might be fairly swift (we hope) there's still going to be a lag time as people get on top of debts, get jobs back and things get going again. That's before we consider the potential for hiccups along the way; plus the fact that different countries are at different stages. So the UK might recover but the US market might be locked down for months longer.
Time is not ripe for a new edition, but all the rules and material would keep for a 6 month to longer period.
I can see it from the other side of the coin. People are starved for games and content with many people having no backlogs or ready for a new project. Coming out the gates swinging with a new edition might give everyone a chance to start over and really get momentum back up.
Kanluwen wrote: I was genuinely surprised we did not see "Engine War" related announcements. There was a very heavy implication of there still being a few goodies for AdMech back at the LVO.
Eh are 7 new units and the biggest single faction PA release to date not enough?
On what I want to see for the next reveal - more Orks, obviously!
In seriousness I'd quite like a new edition announcement, 8th is becoming too convoluted now. I'd also like to see releases for factions other than Marines - Tyranids, Dark Eldar, Necrons have all done very poorly out of GW since 8th dropped. They're due some love.
If I was GW and had oplans for a new edition, I'd proably cancel it or delay as long as possiable. if there is a 3 month delay you could literally have "ok here's a buncha PA drops. ohh and next week, 9th edition!"
Kanluwen wrote: I was genuinely surprised we did not see "Engine War" related announcements. There was a very heavy implication of there still being a few goodies for AdMech back at the LVO.
Eh are 7 new units and the biggest single faction PA release to date not enough?
On what I want to see for the next reveal - more Orks, obviously!
In seriousness I'd quite like a new edition announcement, 8th is becoming too convoluted now. I'd also like to see releases for factions other than Marines - Tyranids, Dark Eldar, Necrons have all done very poorly out of GW since 8th dropped. They're due some love.
If I was GW and had oplans for a new edition, I'd proably cancel it or delay as long as possiable. if there is a 3 month delay you could literally have "ok here's a buncha PA drops. ohh and next week, 9th edition!"
Then they should probably cancel their reveals, if there isn't anything to actually reveal.
Kanluwen wrote: I was genuinely surprised we did not see "Engine War" related announcements. There was a very heavy implication of there still being a few goodies for AdMech back at the LVO.
Eh are 7 new units and the biggest single faction PA release to date not enough?
On what I want to see for the next reveal - more Orks, obviously!
In seriousness I'd quite like a new edition announcement, 8th is becoming too convoluted now. I'd also like to see releases for factions other than Marines - Tyranids, Dark Eldar, Necrons have all done very poorly out of GW since 8th dropped. They're due some love.
If I was GW and had oplans for a new edition, I'd proably cancel it or delay as long as possiable. if there is a 3 month delay you could literally have "ok here's a buncha PA drops. ohh and next week, 9th edition!"
Then they should probably cancel their reveals, if there isn't anything to actually reveal.
there's plenty of reveal. just I imagine if 9th edition was planned for the summer, it's likely they're rescheduling. possiably for christmas, or early 2021. but I expect everything is getting pushed back, although they may make the PA BOOKS avalaible in digital format.
Kanluwen wrote: I was genuinely surprised we did not see "Engine War" related announcements. There was a very heavy implication of there still being a few goodies for AdMech back at the LVO.
Eh are 7 new units and the biggest single faction PA release to date not enough?
On what I want to see for the next reveal - more Orks, obviously!
In seriousness I'd quite like a new edition announcement, 8th is becoming too convoluted now. I'd also like to see releases for factions other than Marines - Tyranids, Dark Eldar, Necrons have all done very poorly out of GW since 8th dropped. They're due some love.
If I was GW and had oplans for a new edition, I'd proably cancel it or delay as long as possiable. if there is a 3 month delay you could literally have "ok here's a buncha PA drops. ohh and next week, 9th edition!"
Then they should probably cancel their reveals, if there isn't anything to actually reveal.
Kanluwen wrote: I was genuinely surprised we did not see "Engine War" related announcements. There was a very heavy implication of there still being a few goodies for AdMech back at the LVO.
Eh are 7 new units and the biggest single faction PA release to date not enough?
On what I want to see for the next reveal - more Orks, obviously!
In seriousness I'd quite like a new edition announcement, 8th is becoming too convoluted now. I'd also like to see releases for factions other than Marines - Tyranids, Dark Eldar, Necrons have all done very poorly out of GW since 8th dropped. They're due some love.
If I was GW and had oplans for a new edition, I'd proably cancel it or delay as long as possiable. if there is a 3 month delay you could literally have "ok here's a buncha PA drops. ohh and next week, 9th edition!"
Then they should probably cancel their reveals, if there isn't anything to actually reveal.
Or just move some stuff around. Put the new edition in longer term storage and push forward some new models that were going to come out anyway. Plus don't forget they've got a 1-2 month delay at least to catch up on anyway. So that's plenty of time and material to shift things around at the back-end of things.
We don't even know how the China factory issue is developing. GW's contacts over there could be running as normal or been shut down; or could be resource starved (factory open but no materials). etc... Plus shipping might have got complicated with a lot of airline services shutting down, putting more pressure on the boats.
There's also a lot that GW just might not know. With a situation that can take dramatic swings in a single day its likely very hard for them to plan things out and coordinate global releases and distribution potential.
People who argue that the Lion reveal or the bull AoS thing were "nothing" are just ridiculous. At some point, a little objectivity doesn't harm. I don't play AoS and even I can actually acknowledge that those Lumineth units and the various interviews were interesting.
WhiteDog wrote: People who argue that the Lion reveal or the bull AoS thing were "nothing" are just ridiculous.
At some point, a little objectivity doesn't harm. I don't play AoS and even I can actually acknowledge that those Lumineth units and the various interviews were interesting.
Well for some people if it's not for faction THEY play it's nothing.
So with that GW would need to to release what....100+ new models? There's 35 40k factions, 22 aos factions, 42 lotr factions and god knows how many warcry, necromunda, bb etc factions...
After all if you omit one faction then that faction player will complain "oh it was nothing. Nothing for XX I play"
Kanluwen wrote: I was genuinely surprised we did not see "Engine War" related announcements. There was a very heavy implication of there still being a few goodies for AdMech back at the LVO.
Eh are 7 new units and the biggest single faction PA release to date not enough?
On what I want to see for the next reveal - more Orks, obviously!
In seriousness I'd quite like a new edition announcement, 8th is becoming too convoluted now. I'd also like to see releases for factions other than Marines - Tyranids, Dark Eldar, Necrons have all done very poorly out of GW since 8th dropped. They're due some love.
If I was GW and had oplans for a new edition, I'd proably cancel it or delay as long as possiable. if there is a 3 month delay you could literally have "ok here's a buncha PA drops. ohh and next week, 9th edition!"
Then they should probably cancel their reveals, if there isn't anything to actually reveal.
Limited 40k reveals =/= nothing to reveal
Not what I mean. If their big ‘OMG you DON’T wanna miss this guys!!!!!’ reveal is/was a new 40k edition (as all the rumours have claimed, by the way) and they can no longer do that because of Coronavirus or whatever they should probably manage their customers’ expectations accordingly and cancel the second reveal. It would likely go down better than having customers waiting another week hoping for something that isn’t going to come.
I’m also very doubtful that their reveal schedule would change significantly in the week or so they’ve had to prepare for the Coronavirus situation, y’know - with the situation changing on a daily basis and all that. We don’t need second guess excuses as to why the only 40k reveal was Fabulous Bill which, as lovely as that model is for some people, is unlikely to live up to the expectations GWthemselves set.
Oh i don't know. A new 40K edition would probably be the most anti-climactic reveal they could have done. Focusing on actually unique and new things made it a damn site more interesting than yet another mash up of the rules.
*Sons Of Behemet. We've *seen* the order logs for them, GW even teased them as "just a myth" in a video awhile back, so if they're real, I would have thought we'd see them yesterday or next saturday.
*Primaris bikes. If that grainy pic from awhile back was real, this would have been nice to show them off Though, more primaris would have led to more grumbling from certain groups, so I suppose its no great loss.
I think a lot of people’s disappointment comes from GW hyping it as “their biggest reveal ever (was though I feel like they do that for most of their reveals).” I think a lot of those people aren’t taking into account the second half of the preview next weekend.
Overall I thought:
Warhammer animation: This specific preview looked much more interesting than the CGI one, but I’m much more interested in Inquisitors an Rogue Traders and the human side of 40k than SM.
LoTR: Eomer is a really nice model and it’s great all his options are in the kit, if I played LOTR and specifically Rohan he would be a must have.
Aelves: Not my thing, but they will definitely appeal to someone.
Fabius: I think a lot of people were disappointed that this was the 40k reveal. The model is nice, but he is a very niche character and is generally only played by a niche group of individuals within CSM. I haven’t played 40k since early 7th, but I used to play a ton between 3rd and 5th and I have never seen anyone play him, or even own a model. Surely he has fans, but I think the 40k crowd wanted something less narrow in focus. That said I am pretty much certain we will get a bunch more 40k next weekend.
The Lion: Really nice model, I don’t play HH and I think having Primarchs on the tabletop is silly, but I’m happy for people who will get to play with him or paint him as a display piece.
Warcry: This is my jam, I love Warcry and more specifically the Warcry Chaos bands. I feel GW has really knocked it out of the park with that range and these guys are no exception. I will definitely be picking them up.
Next week I expect the big reveals
-9th edition or a new 40k army or something
-A new or updated game (maybe kill team 2.0 or something like Battlefleet Gothic)
And then
-A Blood Bowl team
-Something for Blackstone
-A kill team expansion if we don’t get a kill team 2.0 announcement
Not to get off topic, but I think it's important to remember that GW claimed that Adepticon was going to be the biggest reveal evAr! Removed
If a new edition is coming, I suspect that it got pushed back at least a year to allow things to get closer to whatever the new economic normal will be. Sadly, a lot of game stores may not survive this.
Reveals might stay on schedule, but I can guarantee that the release schedule has been reordered.
Given what we've seen Saturday, we'll likely see more things related to them (i.e. Custodes, Chaos Space Marines and Animation).
The one thing I've noticed is that the DP of Nurgle is no longer on GW's website.
oni wrote: Not to get off topic, but I think it's important to remember that GW claimed that Adepticon was going to be the biggest reveal evAr! Removed
A bit unnecessary.
I imagine there's been lots of emergency meetings about schedules at GW of late.
Fabius: I think a lot of people were disappointed that this was the 40k reveal. The model is nice, but he is a very niche character and is generally only played by a niche group of individuals within CSM. I haven’t played 40k since early 7th, but I used to play a ton between 3rd and 5th and I have never seen anyone play him, or even own a model. Surely he has fans, but I think the 40k crowd wanted something less narrow in focus.
Well, he always had the potential to be more popular (model was top-notch back then and the fluff nice), but never got the rules or supporting models (there was a box with a retinue in 3rd edition, but the models were awful). For example, he should have been available for IG from the beginning, like Cypher.
Fabius: I think a lot of people were disappointed that this was the 40k reveal. The model is nice, but he is a very niche character and is generally only played by a niche group of individuals within CSM. I haven’t played 40k since early 7th, but I used to play a ton between 3rd and 5th and I have never seen anyone play him, or even own a model. Surely he has fans, but I think the 40k crowd wanted something less narrow in focus.
Well, he always had the potential to be more popular (model was top-notch back then and the fluff nice), but never got the rules or supporting models (there was a box with a retinue in 3rd edition, but the models were awful). For example, he should have been available for IG from the beginning, like Cypher.
Fabius: I think a lot of people were disappointed that this was the 40k reveal. The model is nice, but he is a very niche character and is generally only played by a niche group of individuals within CSM. I haven’t played 40k since early 7th, but I used to play a ton between 3rd and 5th and I have never seen anyone play him, or even own a model. Surely he has fans, but I think the 40k crowd wanted something less narrow in focus.
Well, he always had the potential to be more popular (model was top-notch back then and the fluff nice), but never got the rules or supporting models (there was a box with a retinue in 3rd edition, but the models were awful). For example, he should have been available for IG from the beginning, like Cypher.
Well, he always had the potential to be more popular
The same could be said of almost any character.
Not really. Examples?
Literally any character. Name one. They had the potential to be more popular, if only there were more players of x faction, if only the sculpt were better, if only the fluff more developed, if only etc etc
Bobthehero wrote: Did they really have a Catachan just a get a bit of skin torn off by a direct hellgun shot.
Wasn’t quite a “bit” of skin. That hot-shot round burned right to the bones. And, I think that could have been a few inches of muscle on that forearm.
A hellgun shot should either have removed his hand, or burned a small hole through the arm, and then through his chest, these things are meant to go through power armor, after all.
Well, he always had the potential to be more popular
The same could be said of almost any character.
Not really. Examples?
Literally any character. Name one. They had the potential to be more popular, if only there were more players of x faction, if only the sculpt were better, if only the fluff more developed, if only etc etc
I think maybe people are reacting a little early to the previews. If they follow the typical big event reveal pattern the really big stuff will come last, which means next weekend. Or maybe I'm just hoping.
I think people should wait till the end of this reveal series before we judge. I could be wrong, but I imagine all these reveals would have happened on the same day at Adepticon, and now they're spread out of a week or two. So if next weeks reveal is great, they didn't hype it up for nothing. If it's just some specialist game updates, a new unit for a necromunda gang, etc, then the hype wasn't warranted.
They won't hype up another necromunda release until the Escher book is out. Saturday has no specialist games in the mix though.. which was disappointing so i'm at least hoping for something for blood bowl and maybe more Tau stuff for aeronautica next weekend.
Im hoping that a new fantasy warhammer quest might be previewed, but I also think if that were happening it would have been previewed at GAMA. (So while I would hope, I don't think it will happen.)
I pretty much expect all of next Sat to be spess mareenz
Thargrim wrote: They won't hype up another necromunda release until the Escher book is out. Saturday has no specialist games in the mix though.. which was disappointing so i'm at least hoping for something for blood bowl and maybe more Tau stuff for aeronautica next weekend.
They could show off the sprues for the new cerastus knights for at and the new book
Psychic Awakening is building toward something. Or several somethings. Started off filling in a few blanks in the modern background, and has since added new war zones and concerns.
Seems to make sense it’s the next edition. Show it off with related models, ready for people to get hands-on with the new rules at Warhammerfest.
Yes! The online preview faucet is fully OPEN, and we can scarcely contain the tide of incredible new reveals. The Hype Train stops for no man, no law, and no virus. Next week, on the 4th of April, we’ll be following up from yesterday’s incredible Warhammer Preview Online with another one! It’s going to be mega.
Either something big is genuinely on the way or GW just doesn't know how to emote correctly...
They might be having another run of those boxed games they had in 2017 like Gangs, Patrol and Chosen. Or maybe a return to traditional AOSWH Quest - its hard to see them carrying on Blackstone Fortress forever beyond two years...
Yes! The online preview faucet is fully OPEN, and we can scarcely contain the tide of incredible new reveals. The Hype Train stops for no man, no law, and no virus. Next week, on the 4th of April, we’ll be following up from yesterday’s incredible Warhammer Preview Online with another one! It’s going to be mega.
Either something big is genuinely on the way or GW just doesn't know how to emote correctly...
Oh boy. Time to prepare for another round of whining when there's not news of new edition of 40k, AOS and complete rehaul of their lines with brand new plastics for every model this year.
There's no way PA8 was the only 40k news they had planned for Adepticon:
2017 was about 8E.
2018 was the next few codexes and confirmation that Sisters were coming back.
2019 was Apocalypse, Slaanesh, & first hints at PA.
The obvious choices are 9E, PA9 and the new Primaris stuff. However I wonder if they'll still go ahead with a big reveal when the release date is now so uncertain. We might see a smaller announcement than originally planned depending on how the current situation has affected the release schedule.
xttz wrote: There's no way PA8 was the only 40k news they had planned for Adepticon:
2017 was about 8E.
2018 was the next few codexes and confirmation that Sisters were coming back.
2019 was Apocalypse, Slaanesh, & first hints at PA.
The obvious choices are 9E, PA9 and the new Primaris stuff. However I wonder if they'll still go ahead with a big reveal when the release date is now so uncertain. We might see a smaller announcement than originally planned depending on how the current situation has affected the release schedule.
we could also see more of biles faction, if its not just rules ofcourse
New releases being beginning of May is probably a little optimistic and assuming that the lockdown ends mid April rather than towards the end (or beginning of May) but if they've got quick quick production runs (say a week or two from firing up the machines to having boxes ready to ship in the wharehouse) they can probably compress the next few PA books by a week or two and get back on schedule - assuming them want to.
So I think easy guesses:
Something else from the Escher book (like the Ogryn gang in the Goliath one)
Maruader Vigiliant/Tiger shark AX2 and Remoras
Tease of the Sons of Behemat
Tease of the last 40KPA book (at least the name)
Something for Titanicus that I didn't realise was already out
More wishlisty but possible
Some WIP from Gothic
Whatever this thing is:
A hint of the next storyline for 40K, more 'Soul Wars' than 9th ed and how it's going to work
Catachans/Eldar/Ork things we've seen hinted at the rumour engine - but reckon they're going to these build up a bit
New Shadespire season with Dark/shadow elves - we've seen a lot of bits in the rumour engine, but I think we'll them here first rather than as a full army. Reckon this will still be a while off though rather than in this preview.
The flying boat
Just full on wishlisting
Bunch of new Necron models because the last book is as big a deal as Engine War is for the Mechanicus
Ordinatus for Titanicus
Dark mechanicus for Engine War
I can't see the business sense in releasing 9th edition while a major 8th edition supplement run is still happening. Early 2021 makes a lot more sense, once the PA series is wrapped up.
tneva82 wrote: Oh boy. Time to prepare for another round of whining when there's not news of new edition of 40k, AOS and complete rehaul of their lines with brand new plastics for every model this year.
*ahem*
As xttz has so clearly pointed out, we were expecting a big reveal, like every other time:
2018 was the next few codexes and confirmation that Sisters were coming back.
2019 was Apocalypse, Slaanesh, & first hints at PA.
Not one mini for 40K, one for LOTR, and a few scattered things here and there, pretty much all of which we knew about already even if we didn't have the details (like the awesome Warcry stuff) or stuff that was leaked prior to the reveal (the Lion).
tneva82 wrote: Oh boy. Time to prepare for another round of whining when there's not news of new edition of 40k, AOS and complete rehaul of their lines with brand new plastics for every model this year.
*ahem*
As xttz has so clearly pointed out, we were expecting a big reveal, like every other time:
2018 was the next few codexes and confirmation that Sisters were coming back.
2019 was Apocalypse, Slaanesh, & first hints at PA.
Not one mini for 40K, one for LOTR, and a few scattered things here and there, pretty much all of which we knew about already even if we didn't have the details (like the awesome Warcry stuff) or stuff that was leaked prior to the reveal (the Lion).
This is why I’m hopeful for this Saturday’s reveal.
I remain however braced for ‘oh’ level of disappointment.
It would have made sense on the normal release schedule - previous editions have come out around the school holidays in summer (End of June preorder/July release).
We should have had
War of the Beast - March
Engine War - April
War of the Spider - May
As yet unnamed last PA - June
Then 9th ed, assuming the last PA wasn't wrapped up in this as well.
However with schools closed for the rest of the year in the UK and parts of the US, there's probably some flexiblity.
There is no indication that War of the Spider would be the second last. There may well be more after War of the Spider.
Harlequins, Deatwatch, Necrons and Sisters could be a single book, but could also be 2 (or even 3 books), especially if PA will double-dip more factions like War of the Spider does with Chaos Marines.
And while it might be conceivable that you could squeeze in a 9th edition in June this year, it still makes more "sense" to have it be 2021 (or even more likely, have 9th Ed. be out sometime 2022 or 2023 and only provide perhaps some minor tweaks and updates based on FAQs with this year's version of Shadowspear).
Psychic Awakening is building toward something. Or several somethings. Started off filling in a few blanks in the modern background, and has since added new war zones and concerns.
Seems to make sense it’s the next edition. Show it off with related models, ready for people to get hands-on with the new rules at Warhammerfest.
I'd love it if they showed a teaser image to sample the ranges that they are bringing out in the coming year. Of course that risks disappointing folks whose factions aren't covered, then again its the hope that kills you... Wouldn't need to state the order or the extent of the releases but give a sense of what's coming. Its great to see what's coming up in the next few months but it generally doesn't have much interest- expecting more marines/imperials/chaos is all great for those factions but offer little if they aren't your bag and its compounded by the box game systems which are focused on the Imperial/chaos- it will be great to see Battlefleet Gothic but again that will be Imperials vs Chaos for the first few years like Titanicus ..If they gave a snippet of what's coming in the next year [not even all] it would most likely give interest to a broader set of gamers and collectors. But it probably doesn't fit with their business model at the moment..
Sunny Side Up wrote: There is no indication that War of the Spider would be the second last. There may well be more after War of the Spider.
Harlequins, Deatwatch, Necrons and Sisters could be a single book, but could also be 2 (or even 3 books), especially if PA will double-dip more factions like War of the Spider does with Chaos Marines.
And while it might be conceivable that you could squeeze in a 9th edition in June this year, it still makes more "sense" to have it be 2021 (or even more likely, have 9th Ed. be out sometime 2022 or 2023 and only provide perhaps some minor tweaks and updates based on FAQs with this year's version of Shadowspear).
One thing worth noting is how modular factions are now thanks to stratigums, tactics, etc the fabius bile faction shows GW's willing to exploit that, there is a LOT of room for new subfactions, eneugh that they could pump out a years worth of supplements effortlessly. you could have stuff like blood ravens vs some brand new craftworld, complete with a brand new craftworld character etc
So, were people actually expecting something big ? Like, because GW said it was going to be big ? Like everytime ? Like it wasn't standard marketing practice ?
I mean, are you new here or... ?
I am genuinely wondering how can people be disappointed with what was announced (lots of long awaited stuff if not surprising stuff)
Sunny Side Up wrote: There is no indication that War of the Spider would be the second last. There may well be more after War of the Spider.
Harlequins, Deatwatch, Necrons and Sisters could be a single book, but could also be 2 (or even 3 books), especially if PA will double-dip more factions like War of the Spider does with Chaos Marines.
And while it might be conceivable that you could squeeze in a 9th edition in June this year, it still makes more "sense" to have it be 2021 (or even more likely, have 9th Ed. be out sometime 2022 or 2023 and only provide perhaps some minor tweaks and updates based on FAQs with this year's version of Shadowspear).
I think there's probably either just the one and then 9th in the traditional slot, or a lot more books to come.
Whilst there's scope for more books - especially if they start dipping into the other 'mixed' or allied factions, it also seems that this would a good enough point to draw a line under this chapter of the 40K story and then start on the next one. Particularly when '9th ed' is likely just to be a reprinted rulebook with the collected errata in it and a new starter set rather than a large change to the way the rules work - so the largest thing that will have changed is the background.
godardc wrote: So, were people actually expecting something big ? Like, because GW said it was going to be big ? Like everytime ? Like it wasn't standard marketing practice ?
I mean, are you new here or... ?
I am genuinely wondering how can people be disappointed with what was announced (lots of long awaited stuff if not surprising stuff)
It seems that there is a significant number of people who have never seen any commercials in their entire life.
SPOILER: If you're a man and are planning to get a Gillette razor, be prepared for a huge disappointment. It is actually not a best thing you could ever get. There are in fact many things in life that are significantly better than Gillette razors, such as fulfilling relationships, sex and pizza.
Naw its more that there's a small minority who just want to complain and thus do so with very little provocation. That they are mostly complaining about the same thing they complained about last time and that most of it because its not the second coming of the Emperor in terms of magnitude I think basically summarises that they've nothing really to complain about so they grasp at straws.
I think people are setting themselves up for disappointment on the Primaris marines being revealed tbh. Even if 9th is revealed it won't be the model range that comes with it, it'll just be the concept.
The Phazer wrote: I think people are setting themselves up for disappointment on the Primaris marines being revealed tbh. Even if 9th is revealed it won't be the model range that comes with it, it'll just be the concept.
Perhaps. Though the bikes and landspeeder pic was leaked ages ago, so it would make sense to just reveal them.
I look at the giddy pace of releases for AoS and just really don't get it at all.
AoS sort of needed them after Old World got ignored for years; then AoS took its first steps by removing 2 whole armies and gutted several others by shattering them into tiny forces. Even now AoS has a motherload of resin and metal models still in the older armies; whilst many of the newer armies only have a handful of models to them.
40K meanwhile has most armies quite modern with plastics and quite large. Even newer forces like Genestealer Cults have a lot of options whilst comparably more armies are complete with more up to date plastics. Eldar are about the only 40K army really left fully out in the dark with a lot of finecast; and I'm not aware of any metals outside of one or two characters (of which at least one is in Eldar).
godardc wrote: So, were people actually expecting something big ? Like, because GW said it was going to be big ? Like everytime ? Like it wasn't standard marketing practice ? I mean, are you new here or... ? I am genuinely wondering how can people be disappointed with what was announced (lots of long awaited stuff if not surprising stuff)
Even by GW standards of exaggerating, they REALLY hyped this one up to the gills. Part of me does wonder if they've decided to trim a few things off the schedule though, since a lot of this won't be getting released for at least three months.
To be fair, we know that the Not!Giants faction is probably going to be announced next week, so for AoS it will been a relatively sizable series of reveals.
It's GW's most popular game, and it received the lowest number of new models out of all the systems announced. One crrepy old fella, that's it.
I look at the giddy pace of releases for AoS and just really don't get it at all.
Some people are just being able to be objective. They really didn't reveal anything I personally find super exiting, but it was still decent amount of releases including a plastic 'greater daemon' and a primarch, either of which alone would have been considered a big deal back in the day.
Are we sure that Games Workshop doesn't just mean a Giant/titan faction for Age of Sigmar? If the models are all knight size or bigger and that is the faction, it does somewhat meet the 'biggest' through word play.
grouchoben wrote: The Lion is a HH unit. Irrelevant to 40k system... Like i said, they released a dodgy old geezer in a corset for 40k, full stop.
No, they released an announcement of the next book after "Engine War" for the Psychic Awakening series.
Remember that "Engine War", prior to this whole mess, was slated to be an April release featuring:
-Adeptus Mechanicus were getting at least 3 new boxed sets in the form of the Pteraxii[birdmen], Serberys[cavalry], and Archaeopter[flyer]. The Pteraxii and Serberys build two units each, and the flyer has 3 variants. That's not even talking about the rules portion of the book, which was going to be the first publication with the Techpriest Manipulus, Skorpius Dunerider/Disintegrator, and the new stuff.
-Imperial Knights
-Chaos Knights
-Chaos Daemons
At this stage I'm more than willing to give GW the benefit of the doubt, after all there's another round of previews to come next weekend I believe?
Ptichforks can wait until the 6th of April!
That said, why all of the fuss? The latest round of Aelves aren't for me I think they look absolutely awful. Horus Heresey resin really does nothing for me either, the sticker shock is hilarious even in context to the prices GW ask for plastic these days. Then there's the Warcry warband which are... pretty ace from my perspective, won't lie. And finally, a 40k Chaos marine, and a niche one at that? *snore*
Saturmorn Carvilli wrote: Are we sure that Games Workshop doesn't just mean a Giant/titan faction for Age of Sigmar? If the models are all knight size or bigger and that is the faction, it does somewhat meet the 'biggest' through word play.
I don't know. Last time they teased the Sons of Behemet, they made sure that the phrasing was clearly intentionally. "We've got some "giant" things on the way", etc.
The Blackstone Zoat is on pre-release here https://www.waylandgames.co.uk/warhammer-40000/73541-warhammer-quest-blackstone-fortress-deadly-alliance-english I must say it's a disappointment for me, I would probably have bought it but not for £40 rrp with extra tokens and card that I don't want. I suppose I should have expected this due to how Blackstone stuff is sold. Blackstone in general seems very overpriced at this point. It's like someone has decided they're going to try to exploit the nostalgia of this range, kind of irritating and they won't get the money from me with this release.
It's GW's most popular game, and it received the lowest number of new models out of all the systems announced. One crrepy old fella, that's it.
I look at the giddy pace of releases for AoS and just really don't get it at all.
I can only speak for myself, but my interest in 40k compared to AoS is withering on the vine. 40k has its same old problem of being space marine centric, while AoS has finally proven willing to move beyond stormcasts. And that's exciting and bold. I have bought anything related to 40k since Blackstone fortress, while I have bought tons of fantasy stuff despite not being into the old setting very much, and detesting AoS when it first launched.
It's GW's most popular game, and it received the lowest number of new models out of all the systems announced. One crrepy old fella, that's it.
I look at the giddy pace of releases for AoS and just really don't get it at all.
I can only speak for myself, but my interest in 40k compared to AoS is withering on the vine. 40k has its same old problem of being space marine centric, while AoS has finally proven willing to move beyond stormcasts. And that's exciting and bold. I have bought anything related to 40k since Blackstone fortress, while I have bought tons of fantasy stuff despite not being into the old setting very much, and detesting AoS when it first launched.
For all I've mercilessly slated AoS, I'll give them their due in moving past the cycle of Sigmarines and acknowledging other factions exist. It definitely makes the release cycles FAR more interesting, not having to temper expectations that it's going to be yet another variety of Sigmarine, unlike 40k where you can all but guarantee they'll have to shove a Primaris in there somewhere, lest complaints of 'Xenos/Chaos bias' somehow, someway, still get touted.
It's GW's most popular game, and it received the lowest number of new models out of all the systems announced. One crrepy old fella, that's it.
I look at the giddy pace of releases for AoS and just really don't get it at all.
I can only speak for myself, but my interest in 40k compared to AoS is withering on the vine. 40k has its same old problem of being space marine centric, while AoS has finally proven willing to move beyond stormcasts. And that's exciting and bold. I have bought anything related to 40k since Blackstone fortress, while I have bought tons of fantasy stuff despite not being into the old setting very much, and detesting AoS when it first launched.
For all I've mercilessly slated AoS, I'll give them their due in moving past the cycle of Sigmarines and acknowledging other factions exist. It definitely makes the release cycles FAR more interesting, not having to temper expectations that it's going to be yet another variety of Sigmarine, unlike 40k where you can all but guarantee they'll have to shove a Primaris in there somewhere, lest complaints of 'Xenos/Chaos bias' somehow, someway, still get touted.
What's really neat is that they've not just moved past in terms of models. They've also done so story wise. This means every faction has a few of their own stories - even if they are only short stories. It gives each faction far much more of a personal voice. Chaos are no longer just simple mindless slaves to Chaos; orks are not just boogymen brought out for a fight; Skaven don't just get stories where they lose to Gotrek; etc... It really helps flesh out a lot of other factions, plus even if you don't play as a faction it gives more depth to the world setting.
It's really odd too in a way because we've a world setting where the basic interactions are complicated and not best known (eg the geography of the land; the mechanics of trade, commerce, what people eat etc...); yet we perhaps have a better and richer understanding of the basic culture of the vast majority of the factions and told by their own voice not the voice of a 3rd party interpreting those races.
Whooo there's some snide on here today, maybe everyone's got a bit of the cabin fever! Crimson, what you are capable of understanding is lovely and all; it doesn't change what was announced. Yeah it's great news for warcry players, or HHDAs, etc. And 40k players with a particular fetish.
Kanluwen, those admech were announced back in january or something. Rules? Yeah, GW has no problem pumping out rules for 40k, they're addicted to hardback cashcows! I was talking about models.
And I agee with everyone that AoS is looking better and better, while 40k is feeling stuck and unimaginative. But I guess that's a product of soooooooo many new armies dropping in AoS.
JWBS wrote: The Blackstone Zoat is on pre-release here https://www.waylandgames.co.uk/warhammer-40000/73541-warhammer-quest-blackstone-fortress-deadly-alliance-english I must say it's a disappointment for me, I would probably have bought it but not for £40 rrp with extra tokens and card that I don't want. I suppose I should have expected this due to how Blackstone stuff is sold. Blackstone in general seems very overpriced at this point. It's like someone has decided they're going to try to exploit the nostalgia of this range, kind of irritating and they won't get the money from me with this release.
Wayland games is your friend. £29 is still overpriced, but slightly better to stomach.
The AdMech stuff was actually announced before that with the Archaeopter in 2019.
It wasn't until the LVO that we had the title "Engine War" of the book going with them, and that was when the Serberys cavalry and Pteraxii were shown.
Ruleswise, what you seem to be missing, is that the AdMech release is going to be kind of strange in that there's 3 items(Techpriest Manipulus, Skorpius Dunerider, and Skorpius Disintegrator) that were released long before we ever got wind of a book.
On the flipside of things, War of the Spider got announced at the same time Lucius got revealed.
Well, the Engine War preview seems to show that gw isn't slowing down on previews due to the current situation, so maybe they still have some good stuff coming next weekend.
Still crossing my fingers for those new fw Indexes.
grouchoben wrote: The Lion is a HH unit. Irrelevant to 40k system... Like i said, they released a dodgy old geezer in a corset for 40k, full stop.
I only play 40K and Necromunda, but I am actually capable of understanding that people other than me exist and they play those other games.
No doubt, but in the same way that the age old "b b b but Marines make up 99.9% of all 40k sales you guys!!" is used to justify the number of releases they see, I suspect even the most niche 40k army accounts for more sales than any specialist game.
Kanluwen wrote: On the flipside of things, War of the Spider got announced at the same time Lucius got revealed.
Lucius, Kan?
And War of the Spider was confirmed as a PA book when they showed the preview of Bile's assistant, as the name was in the graphic. In fact, given the assistant was already revealed, Fabulous Bill is really only 50% of a preview, as I imagine the two models will be sold together,
The announcement here gave more details - such as confirming the factions - but it was a title we knew.
Getting the title for PA9, along with confirmation of the factions in it, would've been a nice little teaser to end the preview with, for example.
Kanluwen wrote: On the flipside of things, War of the Spider got announced at the same time Lucius got revealed.
Lucius, Kan?
I don't know why I wrote that. I know it's Fabius Bile, but I always want to call him Lucius!
And War of the Spider was confirmed as a PA book when they showed the preview of Bile's assistant, as the name was in the graphic. In fact, given the assistant was already revealed, Fabulous Bill is really only 50% of a preview, as I imagine the two models will be sold together,
The announcement here gave more details - such as confirming the factions - but it was a title we knew.
Fair points. I still maintain that it's a decent teaser announcement even if you don't agree. For example, I don't think anyone saw Bile getting his own faction as a thing.
Getting the title for PA9, along with confirmation of the factions in it, would've been a nice little teaser to end the preview with, for example.
Still can happen. Looks like Engine War was meant to be first two weeks of April, but that ain't happening.
An Actual Englishman wrote: No doubt, but in the same way that the age old "b b b but Marines make up 99.9% of all 40k sales you guys!!" is used to justify the number of releases they see, I suspect even the most niche 40k army accounts for more sales than any specialist game.
I personally believe that Warcry, Necromunda and Blackstone Fortress each outsell orks by a comfortable margin.
Kanluwen wrote: On the flipside of things, War of the Spider got announced at the same time Lucius got revealed.
Lucius, Kan?
I don't know why I wrote that. I know it's Fabius Bile, but I always want to call him Lucius!
And War of the Spider was confirmed as a PA book when they showed the preview of Bile's assistant, as the name was in the graphic. In fact, given the assistant was already revealed, Fabulous Bill is really only 50% of a preview, as I imagine the two models will be sold together,
The announcement here gave more details - such as confirming the factions - but it was a title we knew.
Fair points. I still maintain that it's a decent teaser announcement even if you don't agree. For example, I don't think anyone saw Bile getting his own faction as a thing.
Getting the title for PA9, along with confirmation of the factions in it, would've been a nice little teaser to end the preview with, for example.
Still can happen. Looks like Engine War was meant to be first two weeks of April, but that ain't happening.
I suggested Fabulous B would be his own thing earlier in the thread
An Actual Englishman wrote: No doubt, but in the same way that the age old "b b b but Marines make up 99.9% of all 40k sales you guys!!" is used to justify the number of releases they see, I suspect even the most niche 40k army accounts for more sales than any specialist game.
I personally believe that Warcry, Necromunda and Blackstone Fortress each outsell orks by a comfortable margin.
GW's release schedule appears to mostly agree with you?
grouchoben wrote: The Lion is a HH unit. Irrelevant to 40k system... Like i said, they released a dodgy old geezer in a corset for 40k, full stop.
Irrelevant to the game, but the HH Primarch models have still been of interest to a lot of 40K players, on account of being Primarchs.
Although the Lion leaves me a little cold, I'll admit. I'm not sure what it is, but he just doesn't seem to have the same presence as the previous Primarch releases... just looks like a large Marine in a fairly bland pose.
Not playing a game is no reason to not appreciate cool models, though. I love the new Elf Mountain Goat Lord thing, despite having absolutely zero interest in AoS.
I’m getting more and more tempted to start a 30K Dark Angels Army with each new release for them.
Not yet, as far as I know. I believe they said they were doing a stream where they'd go over some of his rules and give a sneak preview, but I could be wrong.
The Dark Angels might have the best 30k Legion specific kits. Really nice. Gal Vorbak and the XVII Characters definitely don't make me regret my choice but the DA are quickly becoming the only Loyalists I'd look to pick up.
Eldarain wrote: The Dark Angels might have the best 30k Legion specific kits. Really nice. Gal Vorbak and the XVII Characters definitely don't make me regret my choice but the DA are quickly becoming the only Loyalists I'd look to pick up.
I really like the aesthetic of Word Bearers overall, along with their rules in general. I hoping for updates to them soon.
But not much 
Or 
I like it for the most part when 
Honestly I think it is the best Primarch model to date. Both head options look good. I don’t play 30K and haven’t collected any of the Primarch’s to date, but I think I get this one.
The Lion looks great! 
