Cronch wrote: ugh. The joke about "making more primaris" is literally the same they made 2 years ago about opening new Stormcast chambers. Except then it was kinda charming and followed by zero new SCE releases since. Here we actually know we'll just get more marines crammed down everyone's throats.
The heavy armor marines look neat, if again entirely redundant.
The flying brick thingy is the worst vehicle model GW ever produced, period. That includes the deo stick tank from Rogue Trader.
Yes! Because my subjective opinion is FACT! Nobody plays marines because they love marines. It’s because FW force them to, they’d all rather be playing my favourite army but GW dies release any models for it because they are idiots who hate money!
Am I doing Dakka right now?
I'm glad Assault Intercessor sgts can take THUNDER HAMMERS AND HAND FLAMERS, I guess the donkey-caves on here that called me a cheater for building some can SUCK IT!
I don't think anyone was calling you a cheater so much as telling you to wait for the unit entry to be revealed since there is inconsistencies in wargear choices here and there.
Crimson wrote: Shame that they didn't show how the models for the different heavy bolt rifle variants look like. I hope they look more distinct than the variants of the regular bolt rifle.
Well the drum versions are likely the hellstorm, short scope (we can see a scoped version tucked under an arm)+ banana mag likely means heavy bolt rifle, big scope + short mag= Executor, just like stalker. The real question is what the two heavy bolter variants look like. I think the one pictured is just a normal heavy bolter, but can't say for sure. It doesn't seem quite as easy to just swap in a central component the way intercessor bolt rifles work.
Wigum211 wrote: After Intercessors, Incursors, Infiltrators and 2w Tactical Marines... Was another bolter based heavy infantry troops unit reeeaaaly necessary?
Yes because in classic fashion the new guy invalidate all those others lol. The heavy Intercessors are 7PL for 5 or 140 points putting them at 28ppm. That means for less then +50% the cost of a regular intercessor you get more then 50% in durability because they are also T5 lol.
Now step back and look at most of the new necron damage outputs leaked, and the better weapons from other factions. Notice how everyone is using damage 2 weapons or begging for an update that would present them. Oh the new guys just so happen to all be 3W troops lol. So now 25 point dissintegrators have to double up shots, oh and wound on a 4+ without the need for transhuman, same can be said for star canons or even heavy bolters lol.
But wait, theres more! Now you get even more wounds on less bodies making morale even more of a joke for marines AND their guns effectively have the entire tables range given the new size with strength 5 to boot lol.
Seriously, it's one thing tollerating constant down pouring of marines, it's the 40k meme at this point and it's fine because honestly I couldn't keep up with that release schedule on my other armies anyway. But dear God, why more troops over walkers and vehicles? Heck even assault jumpy dudes. Now the troop slot is what,
Infiltraters
incursors
intercessors
assault intercessors
heavy intercessors
When the mini marines had tacs and scouts lmao.
Like why not a primaris flier even, it's so bizarre. Their studio clearly lacks someone overseeing the projects and making an overall plan.
Oh on a slight tangent, I am assuming the eradicator with multimelta shoots 4 times by himself verse the same target? So that squad of only three is shooting 8 multi melta shots now
Sasori wrote: I am surprised more people are not happy about the supplements. Getting these almost all out of the way this early clears the way for more actual codexes.
We are in essence getting 7 9th edition codexes in less than 3 months.
This very much.
Oh you guys mean like this time last year? Remember that exact argument being made? Because I do, and now here we are a year later staring down the barrel of that exact same gun again lol
I dig the look of the new Plague termi's and the "Heavy Intercessor" armor, they look pretty awesome.
That said, the fact that 40k is getting "Heavy Intercessors" just screams bloat, and a grip of niche marine Subfaction books isn't doing much to open my wallet. The Storm Speeder looks like an 80's GI-Joe toy, and I'm not getting GW's fascination with putting Stubbers onto everything, especially non-Guard units, in the last few years, and why they always have to be fancier versions of the classic Heavy Stubber.
The new Necron models, while excellent sculpts from a technical perspective, just aren't the kinds of things I really want to try painting (and to do real justice to what they're trying to show requires more painting skill than most people really have) and they look super fragile (though I could be wrong there without seeing them in person). This appears to be a thing with GW and Necrons over the last 9 years, make absolutely stunning looking models that are unholy nightmares to paint
I'm really wanting to find something getting me excited for 9E, but I'm not seeing anything to get me interested. Playing primarily Iron Warriors and Imperial Guard, with a newly painted all-Terminator GK army and Eldar & Tau lists in storage, I've got a ton of 40k stuff, but with the current state of 9E rules/points/army lists, and the profiles of product releases so far (coupled with gaming venues locally still not open for play), there's just not anything compelling me to move out of 8E yet or that is a particularly interesting purchase.
The new Necron models, while excellent sculpts from a technical perspective, just aren't the kinds of things I really want to try painting (and to do real justice to what they're trying to show requires more painting skill than most people really have) and they look super fragile (though I could be wrong there without seeing them in person). This appears to be a thing with GW and Necrons over the last 9 years, make absolutely stunning looking models that are unholy nightmares to paint
Truthfully, unless you're trying to get the green blades to look good (something that IMO looks awful no matter what, but especially splotchy with the contrast paints), they don't seem too bad to me.
Duplicating the glow effect on some of the cryptek stuff might be tricky, but most of those models is just standard metal.
I definitely agree on the stubbers, though. A stormbolter version of boltrifles (or just stormbolters) would have been more appropriate.
So all fw units are in one book? So everyone gets to pay for rules for factions they don't play? Good to see that the pa business model continues.
At least they finally talked about them. Now when do we get a release date? And will it fix any of the stuff gw has screwed up since they took over fw rules?
Gadzilla666 wrote: At least they finally talked about them. Now when do we get a release date? And will it fix any of the stuff gw has screwed up since they took over fw rules?
I didn't watch the stream, so I don't know about any comments there, but the YouTube clip specifically mentions 191 datasheets (of which we know one to be the Ork Warboss on Bike).
Can anyone who has the current four books confirm how many datasheets are kicking around from those publications alone? Well, minus the Elysian and R&H datasheets, anyway. I spotted the following units in the video:
Tau KX139 Ta'unar (with Heavy Railcannon)
Tau Tiger Shark
Ork Gargantuan Squiggoth
Ork Kill Bursta (or Kill Blasta) Tank
Eldar Revenant Titan (with Sonic Lances)
Chaos Brass Scorpion
Space Marine Primaris Floating Brick of Even More Ugliness
Carab Culln the Risen (Red Scorpions Character Dreadnought)
I know there were some beta rules for Custodes stuff, so I'd hope the final versions would be in there too.
There's a very quick flash of the back of the book blurb talking about "two factions bespoke to this book" at the 0:27 mark. The rest of the paragraph is a bit of a blur, but it does end by referencing Titan Legions and Chaos Titan Legions - which is odd, as I'd've thought they meant the Death Korps and the Corsairs, meself. I guess we'll have to wait and see what they do with the latter, given the Death Korps are called out as getting an update.
Not counting DKoK(because the wording suggests they only get a Trait, Relics, and Strats), R&H, and Elysians, there's 175 Datasheets in just the two Imperium books alone.
Chaos adds 58.
Xenos adds 85.
So from 318(not including new products since the Indexes were released) down to 191.
Note that ~25 of those entries are named characters that do not currently or never had official models.
Fully expect that ANYTHING not currently for sale or on their site is NOT in the book.
Gadzilla666 wrote: So all fw units are in one book? So everyone gets to pay for rules for factions they don't play? Good to see that the pa business model continues.
At least they finally talked about them. Now when do we get a release date? And will it fix any of the stuff gw has screwed up since they took over fw rules?
I for one am pleased its a single book with everything in -
Platuan4th wrote:Not counting DKoK(because the wording suggests they only get a Trait, Relics, and Strats), R&H, and Elysians, there's 175 Datasheets in just the two Imperium books alone.
Chaos adds 58.
Xenos adds 85.
So from 318(not including new products since the Indexes were released) down to 191.
Note that ~25 of those entries are named characters that do not currently or never had official models.
Fully expect that ANYTHING not currently for sale or on their site is NOT in the book.
That's what I expect. And probably nothing but data sheets. I expect no lore or any of the great technical details from the old IA books.
Dysartes wrote:Space Marine Primaris Floating Brick of Even More Ugliness
I knew you were a man of taste.
Want to know what makes it less ugly? Killing it with one round of shooting from The Prettiest Tank In 40k (aka the Fellblade). I've done it. It was hilarious.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I also need to know if Lias will survive to make it into the next IA Index
No model, no rules.
Which is worrying since I created an Anton Narvaez stand-in using a Shotgun instead of a Plasma Gun (since that's cooler) and I wouldn't really be able to use the model for much else.
Heavy Intercessors seem like a really bad idea. Did Space Marines *really* need T5 3W troops with guns that reach across the whole board?
It's not even that they will or won't be overpowered. They may end up being junk. But why did they need them in the first place? Space Marines already had more troops choices than any other faction, did they really need even more, and in particular, something that's quite rare in the game?
Seems like another instance of:
"What haven't we given Space Marines already guys?
<long silence as everyone thumbs through codexes looking in vain for something Space Marines don't yet have>
Hold up a sec. Are Heavy Intercessors definitely Troops? Because I don't see that anywhere on the datasheet.
I'd be a lot more comfortable with them being Heavy Support, but then that just switches their redundancy away from other Intercessors and onto Aggressors/Centurions instead...
Gosh, I'm glad they're introducing more variant bolt weapons. I was just thinking there aren't enough of those.
Aside from the speeder (which I dislike even more than the current speeder) it's a nice enough batch of releases. It strikes me that Gravis armour really doesn't stand out the way Terminator armour does... I had completely missed that the heavy guys were in Gravis from the pics.
Necron character releases continue to be all sorts of awesome, though.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Anyone got a screen shot of the Death Guard fortification?
That looks to be the main part, but aren't there a couple of secondary pieces to the right of it? One that looks like the top bit of that, and then a second chimney type piece?
Super Ready wrote: Hold up a sec. Are Heavy Intercessors definitely Troops? Because I don't see that anywhere on the datasheet.
I'd be a lot more comfortable with them being Heavy Support, but then that just switches their redundancy away from other Intercessors and onto Aggressors/Centurions instead...
Yep- in the paragraph between the Captain and their slideshow pic:
A Toughness 5 Troops unit with 3 Wounds apiece, anyone?
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I also need to know if Lias will survive to make it into the next IA Index
No model, no rules.
Which is worrying since I created an Anton Narvaez stand-in using a Shotgun instead of a Plasma Gun (since that's cooler) and I wouldn't really be able to use the model for much else.
So the non-codex marine chapters are supplements, but the Chaos monogod Legions are still separate codices?
I assume CSM is coming later because it'll have its own new model wave that won't fit now.
Pretty much everything looks great to me. That landspeeder is the first time the Primaris vehicle look has worked right. Heavy Intercessors will probably be auto-takes for chapters that can ignore the move and shoot penalty. For Necrons, it all hinges on Reanimation Protocols.
It'll be interesting if 2W marines moves everyone towards D2, but then Necrons are mostly still 1W and get their durability from RP. It'll mean tough choices in the meta for how much D2 to take.
Drudge Dreadnought wrote: So the non-codex marine chapters are supplements, but the Chaos monogod Legions are still separate codices?
I think it's clear with Thousand Sons and Death Guard especially that overtime GW will likely phase out the Codex: CSM elements of those codex's with unique replacements. It's probably not a coincidence those recycled units lack things like Disgustingly Resilient and said units barely feature as alternate, 'Eavy Metal painted schemes in model spreads.
I do think that standalone loyalist Marine codex's will return once GW start delving into chapter-specific Primaris models however.
There's no "need" for them (granted, that can be said about many units, both Imperial and Xeno), but it's not like options are a bad thing.
I think the main reason they where added was so that SM could field Gravis-units in every slot if they so wish.
At ~28-30 ppm (judging by their PL) their offensive output is so sub-par to regular Intercessors on a point-for-point basis that at least I don't think they'll break the meta.
With that said, I'll probably get some because they look rather good - and I like options
There's no "need" for them (granted, that can be said about many units, both Imperial and Xeno), but it's not like options are a bad thing.
I think the main reason they where added was so that SM could field Gravis-units in every slot if they so wish.
At ~28-30 ppm (judging by their PL) their offensive output is so sub-par to regular Intercessors on a point-for-point basis that at least I don't think they'll break the meta.
With that said, I'll probably get some because they look rather good - and I like options
They seem suited to holding backfield objectives? Their range means they can still support fire. And their sheer resilience will make them a sod to shift.
Overread wrote: I mean yeah would have been nice, but at the same time I'm kind of glad to see so many Marine supplements coming out so quickly - gets it over and done with
Dudeface wrote: They clearly are getting the marines out the way.
Super Ready wrote: To those complaining about the Marine releases - think about it. REALLY think about it. We get supplements for the snowflake Chapters up-front and they've already said the existing supplements are compatible - so we're not likely to see new ones for Fists, White Scars etc. for a while at least. The speedy nature of those releases plus the Marines being rolled back into the core Codex tells me that they're going to be considered done with for a time - and that to me says that after the Marine catch-up is done, Xenos and Chaos get their time in the limelight.
Yeah because that worked so well the last time we got a new marine codex and months of marines release. After that, we got an entire release slot for Sisters of Battle codex!!! Sure, it went back to yet another Codex: Space Marines 9.0 just after that, then Codex Necron, then 5 more Space Marine codex supplements. But as soon as they are done with those 5 Space Marines codex supplement, they will be able to release one (1), or maybe two (2) more xenos codex before Codex: Space Marines 9.1 and 12 new marine Codex Supplement becauses the one from 8.1 and from 9 are invalidate by the release of Codex 9.1.
.
Don't forget supplements for individual companies. Plenty room for marine books. Say hello to supplement about blood angels company bloody blood drinkers with more relics and stratagems.
Marines sell. Gw won't stop pushing out marine codexes as that would kill 40k sales.
Sasori wrote: I am surprised more people are not happy about the supplements. Getting these almost all out of the way this early clears the way for more actual codexes.
We are in essence getting 7 9th edition codexes in less than 3 months.
hahahahahahahhaaa
If you think that this is "getting the supplements out of the way" than I don't know what to tell you.
This is merely the first wave of Marine books. Clearing these off the schedule just means room for more Marine supplements down the line, which is 100% going to happen. More 1st company supplements! More chapter successor supplements!
If GW wanted to do it right, they would make it mandatory for every Imperium release to have a simultaneous xenos or chaos release that coincides with it. C:SM/Necrons, SW/Tau, SoB/Deldar, Iron Hands supplement/Orks, IG/Eldar, Blood Angels/Eldar supplement etc.
BlaxicanX wrote: If GW wanted to do it right, they would make it mandatory for every Imperium release to have a simultaneous xenos or chaos release that coincides with it.
Why would non-Space Marine release have to be put in competition with Space Marines like this?
How about every Space Marine relase has to have a simultaneous non-Space Marine release? Or do you believe that Sisters of Battle or Imperial Guard generally have it better than Chaos Space Marines, somehow?
regarding heavy intercessors. I think GW's goal with Primaris Marines has been to enable a Marine player to play ANY of the companies, including a reserve company viably. honestly I think with this wave Primaris are "mostly complete" unless GW decides to give us a primaris terminator troop unit down the line.
If GW wanted to do it right, they would make it mandatory for every Imperium release to have a simultaneous xenos or chaos release that coincides with it. C:SM/Necrons, SW/Tau, SoB/Deldar, Iron Hands supplement/Orks, IG/Eldar, Blood Angels/Eldar supplement etc.
that'd just mean GW half assing the second release while they focus more on the one that sells better
Sasori wrote: I am surprised more people are not happy about the supplements. Getting these almost all out of the way this early clears the way for more actual codexes.
We are in essence getting 7 9th edition codexes in less than 3 months.
hahahahahahahhaaa
If you think that this is "getting the supplements out of the way" than I don't know what to tell you.
This is merely the first wave of Marine books. Clearing these off the schedule just means room for more Marine supplements down the line, which is 100% going to happen. More 1st company supplements! More chapter successor supplements!
If GW wanted to do it right, they would make it mandatory for every Imperium release to have a simultaneous xenos or chaos release that coincides with it. C:SM/Necrons, SW/Tau, SoB/Deldar, Iron Hands supplement/Orks, IG/Eldar, Blood Angels/Eldar supplement etc.
Exactly this.
And if there aren't enough xeno books to mirror the marine ones, maybe stop endlessly printing new marine books.
vipoid wrote: And if there aren't enough xeno books to mirror the marine ones, maybe stop endlessly printing new marine books.
That's not how GW think.
GW's version is:
And if there aren't enough xeno books to mirror the marine ones, maybe cut away the Imperial Guard, Mechanicus and Sisters of Battle codex.
Is that what you want?
vipoid wrote: And if there aren't enough xeno books to mirror the marine ones, maybe stop endlessly printing new marine books.
That's not how GW think.
GW's version is:
And if there aren't enough xeno books to mirror the marine ones, maybe cut away the Imperial Guard, Mechanicus and Sisters of Battle codex.
Is that what you want?
I mean, I don't consider those to be in the same category as Marines (hence, I wouldn't mind them going alongside marine releases, rather than needing xeno books to balance them).
BlaxicanX wrote: If GW wanted to do it right, they would make it mandatory for every Imperium release to have a simultaneous xenos or chaos release that coincides with it.
Why would non-Space Marine release have to be put in competition with Space Marines like this?
How about every Space Marine relase has to have a simultaneous non-Space Marine release? Or do you believe that Sisters of Battle or Imperial Guard generally have it better than Chaos Space Marines, somehow?
Erm... I dunno... maybe so the Space Marine poster boys have someone to fight rather than each other? It is supposed to be a 2 sided wargame.
What's the point in having Imperium vs.. well, old stuff we cba to update so no one plays them.
BlaxicanX wrote: If GW wanted to do it right, they would make it mandatory for every Imperium release to have a simultaneous xenos or chaos release that coincides with it.
Why would non-Space Marine release have to be put in competition with Space Marines like this?
How about every Space Marine relase has to have a simultaneous non-Space Marine release? Or do you believe that Sisters of Battle or Imperial Guard generally have it better than Chaos Space Marines, somehow?
Erm... I dunno... maybe so the Space Marine poster boys have someone to fight rather than each other? It is supposed to be a 2 sided wargame.
What's the point in having Imperium vs.. well, old stuff we cba to update so no one plays them.
he's not saying non marines shouldn't get a new codex, but by artifically demanding a xenos etc release along side marines it won't work well. and he's right, in that type of situation you're almost garnteed to see A quick codex with nothing new.
vipoid wrote: I mean, I don't consider those to be in the same category as Marines (hence, I wouldn't mind them going alongside marine releases, rather than needing xeno books to balance them).
Me neither, but BlaxicanX examples show they do.
Gimgamgoo wrote: Erm... I dunno... maybe so the Space Marine poster boys have someone to fight rather than each other?
You misunderstood my point. My point was that we should reduce the number of Space Marine release, not reduce the number of Imperium release, because if we reduce the number of Imperium release by cutting all non-marine Imperium release (like SoB, IG, Mechanicus, ...) then we still have the problem of too many Marines release, and we removed some nice variety from the game...
As a Blood Angels player, im actually really excited about the assault version of those Gravis Heavy Intercessor's, close combat Space Marine chapters benefit from advancing to get closer to charge/go for objectives, I could really see these shining in a BA list with those assault 3 shots and hopefully a charge at somepoint.
There's no "need" for them (granted, that can be said about many units, both Imperial and Xeno), but it's not like options are a bad thing.
More options in a book already overflowing with them, that also take up the design space of a bunch of other non-SM armies is a bad thing IMO. S5 shooting in Troops was something SM lacked that Tau and Necrons could both get access to. Now SM do too. T5 infantry in troops wasn't something SM could do previously, unlike Death Guard. 3W Troops with long range weapons is not a niche SM needed to fill.
It really feels like GW ran out of ideas for SM about 2 years ago but they keep trying to plug gaps that either don't exist or shouldn't be filled. Comparing the Heavy Intercessors to the new Ophydian Destroyers is a good demonstration of how GW have lost their way in designing SM. The Destroyers are fast and good in close combat but they're pretty fragile for their (likely) cost with only a 4+ save and T4 and they have no shooting at all so need to get into combat to be useful. At the very least that makes them an interesting addition to the army. Heavy Intercessors are...pretty good at shooting, ridiculously resilient for a Troops unit and competent enough to deal with any but the most punchy units in close combat thanks to the suite of SM buffs. To top it all off, static firepower isn't really a thing SM should be that good at.
Eh lets face it "Primaris" were clearly just going to be the new edition version of marines until someone in management said "hey why don't we release them at the same time." It explains why they have basically copied every marine unit with a primaris.
It's somewhat messy because I wager most marine players know that at some point the "regular" will be retired and replaced with the Primaris. I suspect most wouldn't mind it if it weren't that GW keeps pushing regular alongside.
In the end GW could keep both lines going for years and years; or they might retire regular tomorrow. Though at least for 9th edition they are set to stay.
Anyway I I'd say this is a good launch for 9th edition. We've seen a Xenos faction get updates to core older plastics and finecast; we've seen them get a plethra of new troops, leaders, elites and more. Necrons have had a huge update and it seems that, as of now, they'll only have a few leaders in finecast and perhaps the destroyer model hanging around in desire of replacement.
Xenos wise I'd say that's an outstanding release.
Sure we've got a load of marine stuff too, but honestly we know that was going to happen, they are the poster army of the game. It would be more abnormal not to have them appear at the start.
Regardless, this leaves the field open for GW turning their eye to other armies. We've already seen (at the last sneak peak) several new models coming for several Xenos armies. There's also constant hope that Eldar Craftworld will get a big revamp of core parts of their lineup.
Drudge Dreadnought wrote: So the non-codex marine chapters are supplements, but the Chaos monogod Legions are still separate codices?
Thousand Sons can't work as a supplement since they can't take most of the units in Codex: Chaos Space Marines, like Chaos Space Marines. Or, anything with flesh that isn't a Sorcerer. Heck, even excluding named characters and daemons, there are more units in that Codex they can't take than units that they can.
Drudge Dreadnought wrote: So the non-codex marine chapters are supplements, but the Chaos monogod Legions are still separate codices?
Thousand Sons can't work as a supplement since they can't take most of the units in Codex: Chaos Space Marines, like Chaos Space Marines. Or, anything with flesh that isn't a Sorcerer. Heck, even excluding named characters and daemons, there are more units in that Codex they can't take than units that they can.
That was intentional though. The restrictions for both Death Guard and Thousand Sons are arbitrary just like the ones that were done for the Loyalist Angels and Wolves for the longest time.
Reanimation is mentioned at the end as coming in a community article. So likely when we are closer to the pre-order window.
Most likely after pre-order, or at best the week before depending on how many preview articles they have for the release, following the pattern Warhammer Community has established for preview articles for codex/battletome releases.
Drudge Dreadnought wrote: So the non-codex marine chapters are supplements, but the Chaos monogod Legions are still separate codices?
Thousand Sons can't work as a supplement since they can't take most of the units in Codex: Chaos Space Marines, like Chaos Space Marines. Or, anything with flesh that isn't a Sorcerer. Heck, even excluding named characters and daemons, there are more units in that Codex they can't take than units that they can.
That was intentional though. The restrictions for both Death Guard and Thousand Sons are arbitrary just like the ones that were done for the Loyalist Angels and Wolves for the longest time.
Basically this. Wrath of Magnus gave Sons access to every unit from the base Chaos Marines list in addition to their newer unique stuff only to turn around and yank all of that away in "exchange" for the Disc mounted Tzaangor and Vortex Beast, so it's not like there's no precedent for them to have access to some of these things.
I am just... frustrated I guess by how much hair-splitting there is in terms of different unit options. Are heavy intercessors really filling a hole in the line? Did they really need five unique weapon options? Did the new landspeeder simply need to have three different names and dataslates for changes in weapon loadout?
Whatever. At least the models are gorgeous. And it is good that GW will be quickly updating BA and DA rather than leaving them in codex-supplement limbo.
Drudge Dreadnought wrote: So the non-codex marine chapters are supplements, but the Chaos monogod Legions are still separate codices?
Thousand Sons can't work as a supplement since they can't take most of the units in Codex: Chaos Space Marines, like Chaos Space Marines. Or, anything with flesh that isn't a Sorcerer. Heck, even excluding named characters and daemons, there are more units in that Codex they can't take than units that they can.
That was intentional though. The restrictions for both Death Guard and Thousand Sons are arbitrary just like the ones that were done for the Loyalist Angels and Wolves for the longest time.
for DG you could arguably have a point, but for 1k Sons the lore pretty much supports that
My presumption is the new multi-part bikes will come out with the DA, to make them a real release, as opposed to the SW and BA, who will Just share in the models shown.
I’m excited about the DW, and would be even moreso if I knew they were getting an upgrade sprue (just for the shoulder pads for Phobos and Gravis).
The Necrons continue to look great, top to bottom.
dienekes96 wrote: My presumption is the new multi-part bikes will come out with the DA, to make them a real release, as opposed to the SW and BA, who will Just share in the models shown.
Don't count on it. There's still no multi part suppressors. Various characters never became available individually. In fact, there's a few primaris candidates for Legends if we go by what models can be purchased through GW. Gravis Captain, primaris ancient, primaris Lieutenant with auto bolt rifle... Possibly others I can't think of right now.
dienekes96 wrote: My presumption is the new multi-part bikes will come out with the DA, to make them a real release, as opposed to the SW and BA, who will Just share in the models shown.
Don't count on it. There's still no multi part suppressors. Various characters never became available individually. In fact, there's a few primaris candidates for Legends if we go by what models can be purchased through GW. Gravis Captain, primaris ancient, primaris Lieutenant with auto bolt rifle... Possibly others I can't think of right now.
Bikes seem like they would have more universal appeal than suppressors. Suppressorsa also have their weird for fly infantry aesthetic. Given the changes we have seen to the initially somewhat derpy gravis dudes, perhaps these will go off into the sunset with a slight variant with new model replacing them.
BrianDavion wrote: regarding heavy intercessors. I think GW's goal with Primaris Marines has been to enable a Marine player to play ANY of the companies, including a reserve company viably. honestly I think with this wave Primaris are "mostly complete" unless GW decides to give us a primaris terminator troop unit down the line.
If GW wanted to do it right, they would make it mandatory for every Imperium release to have a simultaneous xenos or chaos release that coincides with it. C:SM/Necrons, SW/Tau, SoB/Deldar, Iron Hands supplement/Orks, IG/Eldar, Blood Angels/Eldar supplement etc.
that'd just mean GW half assing the second release while they focus more on the one that sells better
Space marines will never be complete. And new GW's pace of production and marketing actually create a serious worry for marine bloat. I am out of marines for this reason. I can't (well don't want to) afford the treadmill, it's too much, and I have a feeling it will never stop. Marines sell too well, GW now releases too aggressively.
Gadzilla666 wrote: So all fw units are in one book? So everyone gets to pay for rules for factions they don't play? Good to see that the pa business model continues.
Gadzilla666 wrote: So all fw units are in one book? So everyone gets to pay for rules for factions they don't play? Good to see that the pa business model continues.
Better that then four different books.
And uniting them will also simplify annual updates.
yukishiro1 wrote: "What haven't we given Space Marines already guys?
<long silence as everyone thumbs through codexes looking in vain for something Space Marines don't yet have>
"Uh...3W troops choices?"
Seeing as though things start with the miniature team and then the rules guys make rules for whatever they output, that conversation would have never happened. It'd be closer to "We made more Marines in Gravis Armour, this time with bigger bolters. Work out what the rules should be. Here are the concept sketches. Have fun.".
Gadzilla666 wrote: So all fw units are in one book? So everyone gets to pay for rules for factions they don't play? Good to see that the pa business model continues.
Better that then four different books.
And uniting them will also simplify annual updates.
Yeah, it seems to me that they planned a range of each armor type, probably from the start. Marine primaris troops are pretty close to redundant, but there are slight differences. Personally, I would have liked to see some more variety in elites/fast/heavies, but maybe they'll do that too (which will make the range WAY too large, honestly.)
I guess having all these different options be troops is better than if they were another slot, slightly stronger and slightly more expensive, but probably never fielded. Perhaps this design decision is a response to the large amount of underused non-troops in the old marine line?
This all feels like it hasn't been handled as well as it could have, but it could also be much worse. At least the models are nice!
Yep as expected.. In the grim darkness of the far future there are only marines..
I hope this all means they wil just churn out all the books over the SM next 6 moths and allow people to play indomitus heresy 42k in peace for the next year while everyone keeps playing warhammer 40k 9th edition with their npc factions.
At least I have the excuse to buy cool kits from mierce over the next few months as there is nothing on offer for me.. Was contemplating starting a small Nid army as a side hustle but naaah... Id rather give my money to another company for awesome looking minis.
Imperial armour though... that's something. (Maybe the wraithseer will be not nerfed) so I'll stick around and play some games.
Argive wrote: Yep as expected.. In the grim darkness of the far future there are only marines..
I hope this all means they wil just churn out all the books over the SM next 6 moths and allow people to play indomitus heresy 42k in peace while everyone keeps playing warhammer 40k 9th edition with their npc factions.
At least I have the excuse to buy cool kits from mierce over the next few months as there is nothing on offer for me.. Was contemplating starting a small Nid army as a side hustle but naaah... Id rather give my money to another company for awesome looking minis.
Imperial armour though... that's something. (Maybe the wraithseer will be not nerfed) so I'll stick around and play some games.
Codex releases are tied to model releases. They're going to put all the marine books out quickly because the marine models are already out. There's no reason to think that if they weren't releasing all the supplements, that it would bring us Xenos any faster. Those will come when their models are ready, unless they're not getting anything. But given how much they're investing in Necrons now, I'd wager we'll see big updates for the various out of date Xenos.
yukishiro1 wrote: "What haven't we given Space Marines already guys?
<long silence as everyone thumbs through codexes looking in vain for something Space Marines don't yet have>
"Uh...3W troops choices?"
Seeing as though things start with the miniature team and then the rules guys make rules for whatever they output, that conversation would have never happened. It'd be closer to "We made more Marines in Gravis Armour, this time with bigger bolters. Work out what the rules should be. Here are the concept sketches. Have fun.".
I wish more people actually understood this, GW is a miniature company first and foremost with the rules as secondary. been that way for a very long time.
Drudge Dreadnought wrote:Yeah, it seems to me that they planned a range of each armor type, probably from the start. Marine primaris troops are pretty close to redundant, but there are slight differences. Personally, I would have liked to see some more variety in elites/fast/heavies, but maybe they'll do that too (which will make the range WAY too large, honestly.)
I guess having all these different options be troops is better than if they were another slot, slightly stronger and slightly more expensive, but probably never fielded. Perhaps this design decision is a response to the large amount of underused non-troops in the old marine line?
This all feels like it hasn't been handled as well as it could have, but it could also be much worse. At least the models are nice!
On one of the voxcasts Jes straight up said that all of the primaris units were done at the same time. So as they would fit together as a cohesive whole range. It's safe to assume that once all the primaris stuff is out, the design choices will make sense...hopefully.
Argive wrote: Yep as expected.. In the grim darkness of the far future there are only marines..
I hope this all means they wil just churn out all the books over the SM next 6 moths and allow people to play indomitus heresy 42k in peace while everyone keeps playing warhammer 40k 9th edition with their npc factions.
At least I have the excuse to buy cool kits from mierce over the next few months as there is nothing on offer for me.. Was contemplating starting a small Nid army as a side hustle but naaah... Id rather give my money to another company for awesome looking minis.
Imperial armour though... that's something. (Maybe the wraithseer will be not nerfed) so I'll stick around and play some games.
Codex releases are tied to model releases. They're going to put all the marine books out quickly because the marine models are already out. There's no reason to think that if they weren't releasing all the supplements, that it would bring us Xenos any faster. Those will come when their models are ready, unless they're not getting anything. But given how much they're investing in Necrons now, I'd wager we'll see big updates for the various out of date Xenos.
Id hope so but any optimism or goodwill is loong gone. Fingers crossed they can "get it done" in like 6months and not drag it coz who can be bothered anymore? Marine players complaining about having to buy allt he new marine books and models, and non-marine players complaining about having nothing to buy. Seems like there is a very obvious solution but im no space engineer that's for sure.
Anyway have no expectations, dont get dissapointed. Back to my 40k hibernation it is
Argive wrote: Yep as expected.. In the grim darkness of the far future there are only marines..
I hope this all means they wil just churn out all the books over the SM next 6 moths and allow people to play indomitus heresy 42k in peace while everyone keeps playing warhammer 40k 9th edition with their npc factions.
At least I have the excuse to buy cool kits from mierce over the next few months as there is nothing on offer for me.. Was contemplating starting a small Nid army as a side hustle but naaah... Id rather give my money to another company for awesome looking minis.
Imperial armour though... that's something. (Maybe the wraithseer will be not nerfed) so I'll stick around and play some games.
Codex releases are tied to model releases. They're going to put all the marine books out quickly because the marine models are already out. There's no reason to think that if they weren't releasing all the supplements, that it would bring us Xenos any faster. Those will come when their models are ready, unless they're not getting anything. But given how much they're investing in Necrons now, I'd wager we'll see big updates for the various out of date Xenos.
Id hope so but any optimism or goodwill is loong gone.
Fingers crossed they can "get it done" in like 6months and not drag it coz who can be bothered anymore?
Marine players complaining about having to buy allt he new marine books and models, and non-marine players complaining about having nothing to buy. Seems like there is a very obvious solution but im no space engineer that's for sure.
Anyway have no expectations, dont get dissapointed. Back to my 40k hibernation it is
Same here.
Enjoy your primaris stuff.
Nothing for me in these releases, money saved. Period.
So...I continue to just be...very confused by primaris.
Currently, gw has taken the concept of Devastators and Special Weapon marines, and smashed them together into an aspect warriors esque series of units.
And they also decided "hey you know scouts? Those need to be FOUR separate kits.
I don't think it's that hard to understand. If you release one Primaris Devastators kit that let you build all however-many-variations-we-are-up-to-now, people only need to buy the one kit and magnetize. Especially since if you don't let people mix and match, you have to give them 3x each weapon in the same kit, so you can't even bilk them the old way by not giving enough of each weapon.
If you release four or five or six or however many kits it is up to now separately, with just enough details different to make them not interchangeable, you can hit people up for several times as much $.
Currently, gw has taken the concept of Devastators and Special Weapon marines, and smashed them together into an aspect warriors esque series of units.
And they also decided "hey you know scouts? Those need to be FOUR separate kits.
But then..."Assault Marines? What are those?"
Sure goes to show how magnificently simple and effective the original squad layout of Tactical, Assault, Devastator is, doesn't it? Elegant both in model-buying terms and in lore.
Gadzilla666 wrote: So all fw units are in one book? So everyone gets to pay for rules for factions they don't play? Good to see that the pa business model continues.
Better that then four different books.
And uniting them will also simplify annual updates.
Getting rid of 100+ Datasheets does that already.
Odds on them remembering to do a FW Legends PDF for anything that doesn't make it into the Compendium?
Gadzilla666 wrote: So all fw units are in one book? So everyone gets to pay for rules for factions they don't play? Good to see that the pa business model continues.
Better that then four different books.
And uniting them will also simplify annual updates.
Getting rid of 100+ Datasheets does that already.
Odds on them remembering to do a FW Legends PDF for anything that doesn't make it into the Compendium?
0, considering they couldn't even release a mistake free datasheet for their preview.
dienekes96 wrote: My presumption is the new multi-part bikes will come out with the DA, to make them a real release, as opposed to the SW and BA, who will Just share in the models shown.
I’m excited about the DW, and would be even moreso if I knew they were getting an upgrade sprue (just for the shoulder pads for Phobos and Gravis).
The Necrons continue to look great, top to bottom.
And I like the new SM infantry stuff.
Don’t Know about Phobos, but gravis are he same size as terminator shoulderpads.
Feels very much like primaris are closer to horus heresy organization than first born.
Gadzilla666 wrote: So all fw units are in one book? So everyone gets to pay for rules for factions they don't play? Good to see that the pa business model continues.
Better that then four different books.
And uniting them will also simplify annual updates.
Getting rid of 100+ Datasheets does that already.
Odds on them remembering to do a FW Legends PDF for anything that doesn't make it into the Compendium?
0, considering they couldn't even release a mistake free datasheet for their preview.
Those are two very different things, though - providing limited ongoing support for units no longer on sale vs. being able to proof-read a datasheet.
Speaking of the latter, did they comment on the error during the stream, as I'd hope people caught it "live". If not, has anyone dropped them an email to see if they know if it is fixed int he book?
Don’t Know about Phobos, but gravis are he same size as terminator shoulderpads.
Regular Marine pads(firstborn and Tacticus mk-x) fit Phobos left shoulders just fine. Although they do lack the small cutout in the bottom corners. So you have to watch out for arm posing and chest gubbins clashing.
The GW stratagem the whole time was to provide huge numbers of models for each of the armor types so that players could build themes around their Marine armies. Rather than chasing the most op options, we can for the first time build an entire coherent theme for our armies and play them on the battlefield.
I am extremely happy with today's product reveal. My view is that once we get past this, we will see a switch to other army factions. And, I'm not less worried about options being left ignored, especially after seeing Flayed Ones, a unit that was literally zero evidence for getting new models along with the new burrowing destroyers, which I found to be quite awesome.
Seeing the new Catachan Sargent, I'm willing to bet Guard is in store for a major revamp in 2021-2022, which makes me even more happy!
The new marine kits look great too, I'm a huge fan of the cables on the Eradicators, and themulti-melta looks great! The new Necron characters also look amazing, and I hope to see the named ones show up in the future too! All in all this is probably the best time to be in the hobby, COVID-19 junk aside. It's gonna be a beautiful day once we get that under control!
Right? I am sitting here thinking I got at least 3-4.months minimum before I will be able to get a game in, perfectly happy to get the windows update period of the game out of the way and just build and paint.
Gadzilla666 wrote: So all fw units are in one book? So everyone gets to pay for rules for factions they don't play? Good to see that the pa business model continues.
Better that then four different books.
And uniting them will also simplify annual updates.
Getting rid of 100+ Datasheets does that already.
Odds on them remembering to do a FW Legends PDF for anything that doesn't make it into the Compendium?
0, considering they couldn't even release a mistake free datasheet for their preview.
Those are two very different things, though - providing limited ongoing support for units no longer on sale vs. being able to proof-read a datasheet.
Speaking of the latter, did they comment on the error during the stream, as I'd hope people caught it "live". If not, has anyone dropped them an email to see if they know if it is fixed int he book?
Not to my knowledge however on the first, when a company isn't able for pr to write a faultless datasheet i have no hope for them making a Legends sheet not even worse, especially considering the quality controll during 8th for fw indices.
I can't help but notice that the new Marine Storm Speeders are faster than the DE Raider and Ravager (you know, vehicles that traded armour to be faster even than Eldar vehicles), and even the Venom can only keep pace with them.
Because when you've neglected an NPC faction for the last decade, you might as well take the opportunity to vomit on its corpse.
vipoid wrote: I can't help but notice that the new Marine Storm Speeders are faster than the DE Raider and Ravager (you know, vehicles that traded armour to be faster even than Eldar vehicles), and even the Venom can only keep pace with them.
Because when you've neglected an NPC faction for the last decade, you might as well take the opportunity to vomit on its corpse.
The heavy intercessors are also better heavy troops then nid warriors.
Drudge Dreadnought wrote: So the non-codex marine chapters are supplements, but the Chaos monogod Legions are still separate codices?
Thousand Sons can't work as a supplement since they can't take most of the units in Codex: Chaos Space Marines, like Chaos Space Marines. Or, anything with flesh that isn't a Sorcerer. Heck, even excluding named characters and daemons, there are more units in that Codex they can't take than units that they can.
That was intentional though. The restrictions for both Death Guard and Thousand Sons are arbitrary just like the ones that were done for the Loyalist Angels and Wolves for the longest time.
for DG you could arguably have a point, but for 1k Sons the lore pretty much supports that
Well it worked fine giving them access to everything before. Why the arbitrary change to pretend they're a different army? Did Thousand Sons one day just stop using Warpsmiths fix their garbage and nobody maintains their engines that was blessed by Tzeentch? Did they lose all Jump Pack dudes from the Heresy just because?
Yeah no. I don't buy that, and quite frankly neither should you.
vipoid wrote: I can't help but notice that the new Marine Storm Speeders are faster than the DE Raider and Ravager (you know, vehicles that traded armour to be faster even than Eldar vehicles), and even the Venom can only keep pace with them.
Because when you've neglected an NPC faction for the last decade, you might as well take the opportunity to vomit on its corpse.
The heavy intercessors are also better heavy troops then nid warriors.
Warriors weren't that good either to be fair, so does that comparison REALLY apply?
My only beef is we're getting nothing but power armour until next year.
And the Necrons.
I’m on the side of better to just get them out the way. And we are promised Necron levels of attention for the other Xenos forces. So not only clearing out Finecast (poor Craftworlders), but new units as well.
With that in mind, theres more involved project wise than adding new Marine units, as each Marine unit is added to, erm....quite a lot of sub armies.
Me? I know it’s more Power Armour, but I’m particularly hopeful to see Thousand Sons, World Eaters and Emperors Children get a proper job done on them. Chaos needs love too. After all, of Daddy had loved Angron, and Perturabo a bit more, they might never have turned!
Automatically Appended Next Post: I’m also of the unpopular opinion that greater unit diversity in the Marines Codex is a good thing.
We know that they’ve always been the top seller, yes? I figure the more variety of choices, the more variety when playing against them.
Right now, in exceptionally broad terms? I can Gravis it up for a real attrition game. I can go First Born for nostalgia. I could go Intercessor types, or Vanguard. Start mixing those up, and there’s a lot of possible combinations.\
Now, whether or not Marine players make use of that? Different story of course.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: And we are promised Necron levels of attention for the other Xenos forces. So not only clearing out Finecast (poor Craftworlders), but new units as well.
.
that's enchouraging to hear, although I'd try and adjust your expectations. but yeah Orks and Eldar def need a range refresh. 'nids.... I actually quite like most of their models. I think GW'd be better served with 'nids focusing purely on new stuff.
GW has been ramping up their production. Remember, they opened a new factory. A full refresh of all finecast isn't out of the question, and GW's marketing strategy is almost a release a week now, and they need SOMETHING new every week to make that work.
Ketara wrote: Those new Devastators really are something to see, amirite?
Ye gods, don't scare me like that!! Took me a second to realise it was a photochop!
I didn't actually watch the stream so I'm glad to hear other Xenos will get Necron levels of new goodies. No doubt that means they'll get new rules to go with them... so much as it might suck right now that the Marine speeder is faster than the DE vehicles, I don't expect it to stay that way.
Argive wrote: Yep as expected.. In the grim darkness of the far future there are only marines..
I hope this all means they wil just churn out all the books over the SM next 6 moths and allow people to play indomitus heresy 42k in peace for the next year while everyone keeps playing warhammer 40k 9th edition with their npc factions.
At least I have the excuse to buy cool kits from mierce over the next few months as there is nothing on offer for me.. Was contemplating starting a small Nid army as a side hustle but naaah... Id rather give my money to another company for awesome looking minis.
Imperial armour though... that's something. (Maybe the wraithseer will be not nerfed) so I'll stick around and play some games.
Did you miss the necron releases, there was like, a dozen new necron kits coming. That forum is so full of toxic negativity. Bore off.
OK potentially dumb question, but what happened to the original wraiths?
I always liked them, both for the Matrix look and the fairly original rules and concept. Were they taken out at some point?
He meants the old metal models, which looked like Necron Snakemen. The modern Wraiths were refluffed and resculpted to be non-sentient drones and don't have the humanoid upper body. These new destroyers are visually very close to old Wraith sclupts.
OK potentially dumb question, but what happened to the original wraiths?
I always liked them, both for the Matrix look and the fairly original rules and concept. Were they taken out at some point?
He meants the old metal models, which looked like Necron Snakemen. The modern Wraiths were refluffed and resculpted to be non-sentient drones and don't have the humanoid upper body. These new destroyers are visually very close to old Wraith sclupts.
Aye, wraiths never vanished, they just changed in to these
It was also when GW was introducing Canoptek as a thing in the game and not just a background fluffy thing. Prior to that most necron models were either scarabs or warriors with modifications (destroyers, wraithes, flayed ones etc...).
That said the Canoptek kit now in plastic is fantastic, it gets used in a LOT of conversions for Necrons (note its listed out of stock on the UK website which is likely just more reboxing going on since the way GW store is linked to its factory means that when a pack gets a new box art or contents (eg bases) then it gets a new product code which means the "old" one goes off sale and its replaced. Sometimes this takes a while to get shown on the store side.
Gadzilla666 wrote: So all fw units are in one book? So everyone gets to pay for rules for factions they don't play? Good to see that the pa business model continues.
Better that then four different books.
And uniting them will also simplify annual updates.
Getting rid of 100+ Datasheets does that already.
Odds on them remembering to do a FW Legends PDF for anything that doesn't make it into the Compendium?
0, considering they couldn't even release a mistake free datasheet for their preview.
Those are two very different things, though - providing limited ongoing support for units no longer on sale vs. being able to proof-read a datasheet.
Speaking of the latter, did they comment on the error during the stream, as I'd hope people caught it "live". If not, has anyone dropped them an email to see if they know if it is fixed int he book?
If we get anything, it'll be more PL only datasheets like in the FAQ PDFs.
Argive wrote: Yep as expected.. In the grim darkness of the far future there are only marines..
I hope this all means they wil just churn out all the books over the SM next 6 moths and allow people to play indomitus heresy 42k in peace for the next year while everyone keeps playing warhammer 40k 9th edition with their npc factions.
At least I have the excuse to buy cool kits from mierce over the next few months as there is nothing on offer for me.. Was contemplating starting a small Nid army as a side hustle but naaah... Id rather give my money to another company for awesome looking minis.
Imperial armour though... that's something. (Maybe the wraithseer will be not nerfed) so I'll stick around and play some games.
Did you miss the necron releases, there was like, a dozen new necron kits coming. That forum is so full of toxic negativity. Bore off.
And for every Necron kit, there were three Marine kits.
Argive wrote: Yep as expected.. In the grim darkness of the far future there are only marines..
I hope this all means they wil just churn out all the books over the SM next 6 moths and allow people to play indomitus heresy 42k in peace for the next year while everyone keeps playing warhammer 40k 9th edition with their npc factions.
At least I have the excuse to buy cool kits from mierce over the next few months as there is nothing on offer for me.. Was contemplating starting a small Nid army as a side hustle but naaah... Id rather give my money to another company for awesome looking minis.
Imperial armour though... that's something. (Maybe the wraithseer will be not nerfed) so I'll stick around and play some games.
Did you miss the necron releases, there was like, a dozen new necron kits coming. That forum is so full of toxic negativity. Bore off.
And for every Necron kit, there were three Marine kits.
Argive wrote: Yep as expected.. In the grim darkness of the far future there are only marines..
I hope this all means they wil just churn out all the books over the SM next 6 moths and allow people to play indomitus heresy 42k in peace for the next year while everyone keeps playing warhammer 40k 9th edition with their npc factions.
At least I have the excuse to buy cool kits from mierce over the next few months as there is nothing on offer for me.. Was contemplating starting a small Nid army as a side hustle but naaah... Id rather give my money to another company for awesome looking minis.
Imperial armour though... that's something. (Maybe the wraithseer will be not nerfed) so I'll stick around and play some games.
Did you miss the necron releases, there was like, a dozen new necron kits coming. That forum is so full of toxic negativity. Bore off.
And for every Necron kit, there were three Marine kits.
Stormspeeds
Heavy Intercessors
Eradicators
BladeGuard
Assault Intercessors
Captain
Lute-enant
Argive wrote: Yep as expected.. In the grim darkness of the far future there are only marines..
I hope this all means they wil just churn out all the books over the SM next 6 moths and allow people to play indomitus heresy 42k in peace for the next year while everyone keeps playing warhammer 40k 9th edition with their npc factions.
At least I have the excuse to buy cool kits from mierce over the next few months as there is nothing on offer for me.. Was contemplating starting a small Nid army as a side hustle but naaah... Id rather give my money to another company for awesome looking minis.
Imperial armour though... that's something. (Maybe the wraithseer will be not nerfed) so I'll stick around and play some games.
Did you miss the necron releases, there was like, a dozen new necron kits coming. That forum is so full of toxic negativity. Bore off.
And for every Necron kit, there were three Marine kits.
Stormspeeds
Heavy Intercessors
Eradicators
BladeGuard
Assault Intercessors
Captain
Lute-enant
It's not a repackaging, It's a diffrent kit for the same unit. Obviously, no word on when we'll get the Necron side of Indomitus separately.
There's only one frame from there which isn't available in either of the two starters--same as Marines. It has the Plasmancer, Cryptothralls, Skorpekh Destroyer Lord, and the Reanimator. It's a fairly safe bet that the Warriors we're seeing in the starter and Indomitus are going to be what they actually sell as the 'full kit' given that they actually included weapon options.
You're welcome to get salty over the fact that there's Marines in basically all of those links as well, but real-talk? The Necron stuff is a bit more substantial in terms of what's coming.
I think I've missed something - what Lef-tenant was part of yesterday's preview? We saw a Bladeguard Sergeant with neo-volkite pistol, but I don't see anything about the Bladeguard-themed Lef-tenant getting an individual release.
I think I've missed something - what Lef-tenant was part of yesterday's preview? We saw a Bladeguard Sergeant with neo-volkite pistol, but I don't see anything about the Bladeguard-themed Lef-tenant getting an individual release.
'Muricans can't help it, they're taught a perverted version of English from birth bless them.
I think I've missed something - what Lef-tenant was part of yesterday's preview? We saw a Bladeguard Sergeant with neo-volkite pistol, but I don't see anything about the Bladeguard-themed Lef-tenant getting an individual release.
'Muricans can't help it, they're taught a perverted version of English from birth bless them.
Dysartes' point is that there was no mention of any lieutenant/leftenant yesterday.
The Captain and Lieutenant/Leftenant are each in the starter sets. The Elite/Command edition has the Captain while the other has the LT.
Drudge Dreadnought wrote: So the non-codex marine chapters are supplements, but the Chaos monogod Legions are still separate codices?
Thousand Sons can't work as a supplement since they can't take most of the units in Codex: Chaos Space Marines, like Chaos Space Marines. Or, anything with flesh that isn't a Sorcerer. Heck, even excluding named characters and daemons, there are more units in that Codex they can't take than units that they can.
That was intentional though. The restrictions for both Death Guard and Thousand Sons are arbitrary just like the ones that were done for the Loyalist Angels and Wolves for the longest time.
for DG you could arguably have a point, but for 1k Sons the lore pretty much supports that
Well it worked fine giving them access to everything before. Why the arbitrary change to pretend they're a different army? Did Thousand Sons one day just stop using Warpsmiths fix their garbage and nobody maintains their engines that was blessed by Tzeentch? Did they lose all Jump Pack dudes from the Heresy just because?
Yeah no. I don't buy that, and quite frankly neither should you.
The last time they had access to everything was in Realm of Chaos - The Lost and the Damned. Since the introduction of Ahriman in 2nd edition the whole legion was just sorcerers and Rubrics. When they got their specific army list in Codex 3.5 they couldn't take bikes, Raptors or Havocs (and neither Obliterators) and all characters, chosen and possessed were sorcerors.
I think I've missed something - what Lef-tenant was part of yesterday's preview? We saw a Bladeguard Sergeant with neo-volkite pistol, but I don't see anything about the Bladeguard-themed Lef-tenant getting an individual release.
'Muricans can't help it, they're taught a perverted version of English from birth bless them.
Dysartes' point is that there was no mention of any lieutenant/leftenant yesterday.
The Captain and Lieutenant/Leftenant are each in the starter sets. The Elite/Command edition has the Captain while the other has the LT.
Pretty much - there was the Heavy Intercessor Captain shown, but I didn't see anything on the WHC write-up about a new LT.
I was wondering if ERJAK had gotten confused by the Bladeguard Sergeant having the neo-volkite and thinking that was a new version of the Indomitus LT.
I'm just confused about how a Death Guard supplement is going to work.
There are the changes that we've been told are going to be happening to melta weapons, and the changes that are going to be happening to the basic marine profile. So is there going to be a two or three page errata to the CSM codex, or what?
solkan wrote: I'm just confused about how a Death Guard supplement is going to work.
There are the changes that we've been told are going to be happening to melta weapons, and the changes that are going to be happening to the basic marine profile. So is there going to be a two or three page errata to the CSM codex, or what?
solkan wrote: I'm just confused about how a Death Guard supplement is going to work.
There are the changes that we've been told are going to be happening to melta weapons, and the changes that are going to be happening to the basic marine profile. So is there going to be a two or three page errata to the CSM codex, or what?
Death Guard will be a proper Codex, not a supplement. They stated that in the article and it doesn't have supplement on the cover.
Drudge Dreadnought wrote: So the non-codex marine chapters are supplements, but the Chaos monogod Legions are still separate codices?
Thousand Sons can't work as a supplement since they can't take most of the units in Codex: Chaos Space Marines, like Chaos Space Marines. Or, anything with flesh that isn't a Sorcerer. Heck, even excluding named characters and daemons, there are more units in that Codex they can't take than units that they can.
That was intentional though. The restrictions for both Death Guard and Thousand Sons are arbitrary just like the ones that were done for the Loyalist Angels and Wolves for the longest time.
for DG you could arguably have a point, but for 1k Sons the lore pretty much supports that
Well it worked fine giving them access to everything before. Why the arbitrary change to pretend they're a different army? Did Thousand Sons one day just stop using Warpsmiths fix their garbage and nobody maintains their engines that was blessed by Tzeentch? Did they lose all Jump Pack dudes from the Heresy just because?
Yeah no. I don't buy that, and quite frankly neither should you.
The last time they had access to everything was in Realm of Chaos - The Lost and the Damned. Since the introduction of Ahriman in 2nd edition the whole legion was just sorcerers and Rubrics. When they got their specific army list in Codex 3.5 they couldn't take bikes, Raptors or Havocs (and neither Obliterators) and all characters, chosen and possessed were sorcerors.
You're like 25 years too late.
Did you forget about 4th-7th and how it didn't break anything?
solkan wrote: I'm just confused about how a Death Guard supplement is going to work.
There are the changes that we've been told are going to be happening to melta weapons, and the changes that are going to be happening to the basic marine profile. So is there going to be a two or three page errata to the CSM codex, or what?
Death Guard will be a proper Codex, not a supplement. They stated that in the article and it doesn't have supplement on the cover.
Oh. Now I'll have something to point to when someone asks why I don't want to bother playing 40k for the next year.
"But think of all the great things you'll get when when the rest of the books eventually come out."
H.B.M.C. wrote: People actually think that the Primaris Assault Squad, Eradicators and Bladeguard are repackaged minis?
I believe in this context they are looking at them more as models we've already seen in the unit roster as opposed to new units in the roster. So whilst the sculpts might well be different to Indomitus sprue and with other weapon/build options; they are sitll the same unit "roster" as such.
Drudge Dreadnought wrote: So the non-codex marine chapters are supplements, but the Chaos monogod Legions are still separate codices?
Thousand Sons can't work as a supplement since they can't take most of the units in Codex: Chaos Space Marines, like Chaos Space Marines. Or, anything with flesh that isn't a Sorcerer. Heck, even excluding named characters and daemons, there are more units in that Codex they can't take than units that they can.
That was intentional though. The restrictions for both Death Guard and Thousand Sons are arbitrary just like the ones that were done for the Loyalist Angels and Wolves for the longest time.
for DG you could arguably have a point, but for 1k Sons the lore pretty much supports that
Well it worked fine giving them access to everything before. Why the arbitrary change to pretend they're a different army? Did Thousand Sons one day just stop using Warpsmiths fix their garbage and nobody maintains their engines that was blessed by Tzeentch? Did they lose all Jump Pack dudes from the Heresy just because?
Yeah no. I don't buy that, and quite frankly neither should you.
The last time they had access to everything was in Realm of Chaos - The Lost and the Damned. Since the introduction of Ahriman in 2nd edition the whole legion was just sorcerers and Rubrics. When they got their specific army list in Codex 3.5 they couldn't take bikes, Raptors or Havocs (and neither Obliterators) and all characters, chosen and possessed were sorcerors.
You're like 25 years too late.
Did you forget about 4th-7th and how it didn't break anything?
You're confusing Tzeentch worshipping Marines with Thousand Sons. You can still play the first with Codex: CSM like in the last editions. I still remember people moaning about those codices while praising 3.5, even if it was full of restrictions for the legions - especially the Thousand Sons.
Take the Plasmactye from the 3 Skorpekh and tag it into the 6 Ophidian, give it a Chronomancer with 10" move and both +1 RP and 5++, then we will be talking. Otherwise, kinda yawn. The Plasmactye is a void shield with RP for 15 points that is more useful to a 6 man unit than to a 3 man unit.
Drudge Dreadnought wrote: So the non-codex marine chapters are supplements, but the Chaos monogod Legions are still separate codices?
Thousand Sons can't work as a supplement since they can't take most of the units in Codex: Chaos Space Marines, like Chaos Space Marines. Or, anything with flesh that isn't a Sorcerer. Heck, even excluding named characters and daemons, there are more units in that Codex they can't take than units that they can.
That was intentional though. The restrictions for both Death Guard and Thousand Sons are arbitrary just like the ones that were done for the Loyalist Angels and Wolves for the longest time.
for DG you could arguably have a point, but for 1k Sons the lore pretty much supports that
Well it worked fine giving them access to everything before. Why the arbitrary change to pretend they're a different army? Did Thousand Sons one day just stop using Warpsmiths fix their garbage and nobody maintains their engines that was blessed by Tzeentch? Did they lose all Jump Pack dudes from the Heresy just because?
Yeah no. I don't buy that, and quite frankly neither should you.
The last time they had access to everything was in Realm of Chaos - The Lost and the Damned. Since the introduction of Ahriman in 2nd edition the whole legion was just sorcerers and Rubrics. When they got their specific army list in Codex 3.5 they couldn't take bikes, Raptors or Havocs (and neither Obliterators) and all characters, chosen and possessed were sorcerors.
You're like 25 years too late.
Did you forget about 4th-7th and how it didn't break anything?
You're confusing Tzeentch worshipping Marines with Thousand Sons. You can still play the first with Codex: CSM like in the last editions. I still remember people moaning about those codices while praising 3.5, even if it was full of restrictions for the legions - especially the Thousand Sons.
The people praising 3.5 have rose tinted glasses that have blocked out that it was a terribly written codex to begin with. Oh and with the Legion supplement from 7th there was no issues.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: The people praising 3.5 have rose tinted glasses that have blocked out that it was a terribly written codex to begin with.
But mUh Ether Lance is fLufFy!
The upgrades etc. were fun but yeah pretty cheesy. To be fair, CSM 3.0 was an awful book that was rushed, dated, and generic with IIRC very few releases or support, and 3.5 allowed real legion identity plus there was the push to give most of them unique squads, had some actually decent sculpts of cult marines and IMHO still the best daemon infantry models (esp. the horrors), and coincided roughly with the Eye of Terror rules.
It might not hold up well mechanically and was certainly OP, but 3.5 was a really good time to model a chaos army.
Drudge Dreadnought wrote: So the non-codex marine chapters are supplements, but the Chaos monogod Legions are still separate codices?
Thousand Sons can't work as a supplement since they can't take most of the units in Codex: Chaos Space Marines, like Chaos Space Marines. Or, anything with flesh that isn't a Sorcerer. Heck, even excluding named characters and daemons, there are more units in that Codex they can't take than units that they can.
That was intentional though. The restrictions for both Death Guard and Thousand Sons are arbitrary just like the ones that were done for the Loyalist Angels and Wolves for the longest time.
for DG you could arguably have a point, but for 1k Sons the lore pretty much supports that
Well it worked fine giving them access to everything before. Why the arbitrary change to pretend they're a different army? Did Thousand Sons one day just stop using Warpsmiths fix their garbage and nobody maintains their engines that was blessed by Tzeentch? Did they lose all Jump Pack dudes from the Heresy just because?
Yeah no. I don't buy that, and quite frankly neither should you.
The last time they had access to everything was in Realm of Chaos - The Lost and the Damned. Since the introduction of Ahriman in 2nd edition the whole legion was just sorcerers and Rubrics. When they got their specific army list in Codex 3.5 they couldn't take bikes, Raptors or Havocs (and neither Obliterators) and all characters, chosen and possessed were sorcerors.
You're like 25 years too late.
Did you forget about 4th-7th and how it didn't break anything?
You're confusing Tzeentch worshipping Marines with Thousand Sons. You can still play the first with Codex: CSM like in the last editions. I still remember people moaning about those codices while praising 3.5, even if it was full of restrictions for the legions - especially the Thousand Sons.
The people praising 3.5 have rose tinted glasses that have blocked out that it was a terribly written codex to begin with. Oh and with the Legion supplement from 7th there was no issues.
So, butter to the fishes: what entries from Codex: CSM do you miss in Codex: TS? The normal CSM are Rubrics, all of them. Warpsmith and Dark Apostle? No sorcerers (and they can use Dark Mechanicus allies to fix their stuff - there were codices without Warpsmith/Techmarines at all)). Obliterators and Mutilators? No Rubrics. Possessed? That was the reason for the Rubric spell. Bikes and Raptors? Can you imagine Rubrics driving bikes or even flying through the air?
Sure, there're tzeentchian normal CSM, Havocs etc., but they're not part of the legion.
Drudge Dreadnought wrote: So the non-codex marine chapters are supplements, but the Chaos monogod Legions are still separate codices?
Thousand Sons can't work as a supplement since they can't take most of the units in Codex: Chaos Space Marines, like Chaos Space Marines. Or, anything with flesh that isn't a Sorcerer. Heck, even excluding named characters and daemons, there are more units in that Codex they can't take than units that they can.
That was intentional though. The restrictions for both Death Guard and Thousand Sons are arbitrary just like the ones that were done for the Loyalist Angels and Wolves for the longest time.
for DG you could arguably have a point, but for 1k Sons the lore pretty much supports that
Well it worked fine giving them access to everything before. Why the arbitrary change to pretend they're a different army? Did Thousand Sons one day just stop using Warpsmiths fix their garbage and nobody maintains their engines that was blessed by Tzeentch? Did they lose all Jump Pack dudes from the Heresy just because?
Yeah no. I don't buy that, and quite frankly neither should you.
The last time they had access to everything was in Realm of Chaos - The Lost and the Damned. Since the introduction of Ahriman in 2nd edition the whole legion was just sorcerers and Rubrics. When they got their specific army list in Codex 3.5 they couldn't take bikes, Raptors or Havocs (and neither Obliterators) and all characters, chosen and possessed were sorcerors.
You're like 25 years too late.
Did you forget about 4th-7th and how it didn't break anything?
You're confusing Tzeentch worshipping Marines with Thousand Sons. You can still play the first with Codex: CSM like in the last editions. I still remember people moaning about those codices while praising 3.5, even if it was full of restrictions for the legions - especially the Thousand Sons.
The people praising 3.5 have rose tinted glasses that have blocked out that it was a terribly written codex to begin with. Oh and with the Legion supplement from 7th there was no issues.
So, butter to the fishes: what entries from Codex: CSM do you miss in Codex: TS? The normal CSM are Rubrics, all of them. Warpsmith and Dark Apostle? No sorcerers (and they can use Dark Mechanicus allies to fix their stuff - there were codices without Warpsmith/Techmarines at all)). Obliterators and Mutilators? No Rubrics. Possessed? That was the reason for the Rubric spell. Bikes and Raptors? Can you imagine Rubrics driving bikes or even flying through the air?
Sure, there're tzeentchian normal CSM, Havocs etc., but they're not part of the legion.
You'd have a point if Helbrutes weren't a thing and someone didn't need to pilot their vehicles.
I think I've missed something - what Lef-tenant was part of yesterday's preview? We saw a Bladeguard Sergeant with neo-volkite pistol, but I don't see anything about the Bladeguard-themed Lef-tenant getting an individual release.
'Muricans can't help it, they're taught a perverted version of English from birth bless them.
Dysartes' point is that there was no mention of any lieutenant/leftenant yesterday.
The Captain and Lieutenant/Leftenant are each in the starter sets. The Elite/Command edition has the Captain while the other has the LT.
I am also wondering where this new lyooten-ant is.
Drudge Dreadnought wrote: So the non-codex marine chapters are supplements, but the Chaos monogod Legions are still separate codices?
Thousand Sons can't work as a supplement since they can't take most of the units in Codex: Chaos Space Marines, like Chaos Space Marines. Or, anything with flesh that isn't a Sorcerer. Heck, even excluding named characters and daemons, there are more units in that Codex they can't take than units that they can.
That was intentional though. The restrictions for both Death Guard and Thousand Sons are arbitrary just like the ones that were done for the Loyalist Angels and Wolves for the longest time.
for DG you could arguably have a point, but for 1k Sons the lore pretty much supports that
Well it worked fine giving them access to everything before. Why the arbitrary change to pretend they're a different army? Did Thousand Sons one day just stop using Warpsmiths fix their garbage and nobody maintains their engines that was blessed by Tzeentch? Did they lose all Jump Pack dudes from the Heresy just because?
Yeah no. I don't buy that, and quite frankly neither should you.
The last time they had access to everything was in Realm of Chaos - The Lost and the Damned. Since the introduction of Ahriman in 2nd edition the whole legion was just sorcerers and Rubrics. When they got their specific army list in Codex 3.5 they couldn't take bikes, Raptors or Havocs (and neither Obliterators) and all characters, chosen and possessed were sorcerors.
You're like 25 years too late.
Did you forget about 4th-7th and how it didn't break anything?
You're confusing Tzeentch worshipping Marines with Thousand Sons. You can still play the first with Codex: CSM like in the last editions. I still remember people moaning about those codices while praising 3.5, even if it was full of restrictions for the legions - especially the Thousand Sons.
The people praising 3.5 have rose tinted glasses that have blocked out that it was a terribly written codex to begin with. Oh and with the Legion supplement from 7th there was no issues.
So, butter to the fishes: what entries from Codex: CSM do you miss in Codex: TS? The normal CSM are Rubrics, all of them. Warpsmith and Dark Apostle? No sorcerers (and they can use Dark Mechanicus allies to fix their stuff - there were codices without Warpsmith/Techmarines at all)). Obliterators and Mutilators? No Rubrics. Possessed? That was the reason for the Rubric spell. Bikes and Raptors? Can you imagine Rubrics driving bikes or even flying through the air?
Sure, there're tzeentchian normal CSM, Havocs etc., but they're not part of the legion.
You'd have a point if Helbrutes weren't a thing and someone didn't need to pilot their vehicles.
It is at least hinted in the Codex that the vehicles drive through their enslaved machine spirits. The Helbrutes have a funny explaination...
Spoiler:
They're inviting other renegades to learn from them only to put them in their Helbrutes instead.
I didn't even know there was a preview happening before youtube recommended me the "moar Primaris!!1one" video. Those kits are a lot more interesting than the dumb, err, dune buggy and turret.
I still can't decide what chapter my Indomitus marines are going to be. I like the idea of a Crimson Fists force and Blood Angels were the prominent chapter of my first WD (when the Fire Prism came out), but the crusader-y models look so regal in UM colours. Sigh.
ERJAK wrote: It's not even 2 to 1. In fact, if you don't count repackaging of units we already have, Necrons win by 1 kit.
What's the time window you are using for reaching this number ?
I'm sure with the right window we can get to 10 to 1. Likely 20 to 1. Could we reach 30 to 1? Maybe, we'd have to check lol.
Binabik15 wrote: I didn't even know there was a preview happening before youtube recommended me the "moar Primaris!!1one" video. Those kits are a lot more interesting than the dumb, err, dune buggy and turret.
I still can't decide what chapter my Indomitus marines are going to be. I like the idea of a Crimson Fists force and Blood Angels were the prominent chapter of my first WD (when the Fire Prism came out), but the crusader-y models look so regal in UM colours. Sigh.
Binabik15 wrote: I didn't even know there was a preview happening before youtube recommended me the "moar Primaris!!1one" video. Those kits are a lot more interesting than the dumb, err, dune buggy and turret.
I still can't decide what chapter my Indomitus marines are going to be. I like the idea of a Crimson Fists force and Blood Angels were the prominent chapter of my first WD (when the Fire Prism came out), but the crusader-y models look so regal in UM colours. Sigh.
Drudge Dreadnought wrote: So the non-codex marine chapters are supplements, but the Chaos monogod Legions are still separate codices?
Thousand Sons can't work as a supplement since they can't take most of the units in Codex: Chaos Space Marines, like Chaos Space Marines. Or, anything with flesh that isn't a Sorcerer. Heck, even excluding named characters and daemons, there are more units in that Codex they can't take than units that they can.
That was intentional though. The restrictions for both Death Guard and Thousand Sons are arbitrary just like the ones that were done for the Loyalist Angels and Wolves for the longest time.
for DG you could arguably have a point, but for 1k Sons the lore pretty much supports that
Well it worked fine giving them access to everything before. Why the arbitrary change to pretend they're a different army? Did Thousand Sons one day just stop using Warpsmiths fix their garbage and nobody maintains their engines that was blessed by Tzeentch? Did they lose all Jump Pack dudes from the Heresy just because?
Yeah no. I don't buy that, and quite frankly neither should you.
The last time they had access to everything was in Realm of Chaos - The Lost and the Damned. Since the introduction of Ahriman in 2nd edition the whole legion was just sorcerers and Rubrics. When they got their specific army list in Codex 3.5 they couldn't take bikes, Raptors or Havocs (and neither Obliterators) and all characters, chosen and possessed were sorcerors.
You're like 25 years too late.
Did you forget about 4th-7th and how it didn't break anything?
You're confusing Tzeentch worshipping Marines with Thousand Sons. You can still play the first with Codex: CSM like in the last editions. I still remember people moaning about those codices while praising 3.5, even if it was full of restrictions for the legions - especially the Thousand Sons.
The Thousand Sons army list from Wrath of Magnus is the entire Chaos Marine Codex(minus non-Tzeentch Cults) plus Tzaangor, Magnus, Exalteds, and Scarab Occult.
Argive wrote: Yep as expected.. In the grim darkness of the far future there are only marines..
I hope this all means they wil just churn out all the books over the SM next 6 moths and allow people to play indomitus heresy 42k in peace for the next year while everyone keeps playing warhammer 40k 9th edition with their npc factions.
At least I have the excuse to buy cool kits from mierce over the next few months as there is nothing on offer for me.. Was contemplating starting a small Nid army as a side hustle but naaah... Id rather give my money to another company for awesome looking minis.
Imperial armour though... that's something. (Maybe the wraithseer will be not nerfed) so I'll stick around and play some games.
Did you miss the necron releases, there was like, a dozen new necron kits coming. That forum is so full of toxic negativity. Bore off.
A lot of it is forced. I can't believe that many people really act this way. Surely they know that more armies are coming in the pipe. You cannot release 120 model kits in 6 months for 5 different factions. People. Need. To. Calm. Down.
Drudge Dreadnought wrote: So the non-codex marine chapters are supplements, but the Chaos monogod Legions are still separate codices?
Thousand Sons can't work as a supplement since they can't take most of the units in Codex: Chaos Space Marines, like Chaos Space Marines. Or, anything with flesh that isn't a Sorcerer. Heck, even excluding named characters and daemons, there are more units in that Codex they can't take than units that they can.
That was intentional though. The restrictions for both Death Guard and Thousand Sons are arbitrary just like the ones that were done for the Loyalist Angels and Wolves for the longest time.
for DG you could arguably have a point, but for 1k Sons the lore pretty much supports that
Well it worked fine giving them access to everything before. Why the arbitrary change to pretend they're a different army? Did Thousand Sons one day just stop using Warpsmiths fix their garbage and nobody maintains their engines that was blessed by Tzeentch? Did they lose all Jump Pack dudes from the Heresy just because?
Yeah no. I don't buy that, and quite frankly neither should you.
The last time they had access to everything was in Realm of Chaos - The Lost and the Damned. Since the introduction of Ahriman in 2nd edition the whole legion was just sorcerers and Rubrics. When they got their specific army list in Codex 3.5 they couldn't take bikes, Raptors or Havocs (and neither Obliterators) and all characters, chosen and possessed were sorcerors.
You're like 25 years too late.
Did you forget about 4th-7th and how it didn't break anything?
You're confusing Tzeentch worshipping Marines with Thousand Sons. You can still play the first with Codex: CSM like in the last editions. I still remember people moaning about those codices while praising 3.5, even if it was full of restrictions for the legions - especially the Thousand Sons.
The Thousand Sons army list from Wrath of Magnus is the entire Chaos Marine Codex(minus non-Tzeentch Cults) plus Tzaangor, Magnus, Exalteds, and Scarab Occult.
The book also shows the forces of the Thousand Sons in graphics and the detachments - it's the same they got in their codex later. The actual 'army list' being CSM++? Well... GW...
Hum, okay. I tried to hide the discussion between me and Slayer with spoilers to avoid the mods, but it's really OT I guess. Maybe we found some consent, maybe not. It's fine.
Drudge Dreadnought wrote: So the non-codex marine chapters are supplements, but the Chaos monogod Legions are still separate codices?
Thousand Sons can't work as a supplement since they can't take most of the units in Codex: Chaos Space Marines, like Chaos Space Marines. Or, anything with flesh that isn't a Sorcerer. Heck, even excluding named characters and daemons, there are more units in that Codex they can't take than units that they can.
That was intentional though. The restrictions for both Death Guard and Thousand Sons are arbitrary just like the ones that were done for the Loyalist Angels and Wolves for the longest time.
for DG you could arguably have a point, but for 1k Sons the lore pretty much supports that
Well it worked fine giving them access to everything before. Why the arbitrary change to pretend they're a different army? Did Thousand Sons one day just stop using Warpsmiths fix their garbage and nobody maintains their engines that was blessed by Tzeentch? Did they lose all Jump Pack dudes from the Heresy just because?
Yeah no. I don't buy that, and quite frankly neither should you.
The last time they had access to everything was in Realm of Chaos - The Lost and the Damned. Since the introduction of Ahriman in 2nd edition the whole legion was just sorcerers and Rubrics. When they got their specific army list in Codex 3.5 they couldn't take bikes, Raptors or Havocs (and neither Obliterators) and all characters, chosen and possessed were sorcerors.
You're like 25 years too late.
Did you forget about 4th-7th and how it didn't break anything?
You're confusing Tzeentch worshipping Marines with Thousand Sons. You can still play the first with Codex: CSM like in the last editions. I still remember people moaning about those codices while praising 3.5, even if it was full of restrictions for the legions - especially the Thousand Sons.
The people praising 3.5 have rose tinted glasses that have blocked out that it was a terribly written codex to begin with. Oh and with the Legion supplement from 7th there was no issues.
So, butter to the fishes: what entries from Codex: CSM do you miss in Codex: TS? The normal CSM are Rubrics, all of them. Warpsmith and Dark Apostle? No sorcerers (and they can use Dark Mechanicus allies to fix their stuff - there were codices without Warpsmith/Techmarines at all)). Obliterators and Mutilators? No Rubrics. Possessed? That was the reason for the Rubric spell. Bikes and Raptors? Can you imagine Rubrics driving bikes or even flying through the air?
Sure, there're tzeentchian normal CSM, Havocs etc., but they're not part of the legion.
You'd have a point if Helbrutes weren't a thing and someone didn't need to pilot their vehicles.
It is at least hinted in the Codex that the vehicles drive through their enslaved machine spirits. The Helbrutes have a funny explaination...
Spoiler:
They're inviting other renegades to learn from them only to put them in their Helbrutes instead.
Hinted =/= Explanation, and the Helbrutes still benefit from Thousand Sons rules despite not being Thousand Sons in your definition.
Argive wrote: Yep as expected.. In the grim darkness of the far future there are only marines..
I hope this all means they wil just churn out all the books over the SM next 6 moths and allow people to play indomitus heresy 42k in peace for the next year while everyone keeps playing warhammer 40k 9th edition with their npc factions.
At least I have the excuse to buy cool kits from mierce over the next few months as there is nothing on offer for me.. Was contemplating starting a small Nid army as a side hustle but naaah... Id rather give my money to another company for awesome looking minis.
Imperial armour though... that's something. (Maybe the wraithseer will be not nerfed) so I'll stick around and play some games.
Did you miss the necron releases, there was like, a dozen new necron kits coming. That forum is so full of toxic negativity. Bore off.
A lot of it is forced. I can't believe that many people really act this way. Surely they know that more armies are coming in the pipe. You cannot release 120 model kits in 6 months for 5 different factions. People. Need. To. Calm. Down.
C:SM 2020 will be just 2 shy of triple digit codex entries... Currently With supplements and snowflake different coloured marines units we were well past triple digits.. Did.. They..really... need.. more... ?
In a few weeks we will get the look at the codexes and we can finally see how those necrons model suck in comparison to marine units on the table and I wont have to read any more "just wait.. WAIT.. wait and see its not how bad it is. YOU DONT KNOW THE RULES YET!!"
Then in another 6 months we will get more marines because why would we ever not.. And people will still say well there was those necrons back then.. Remebr the necrons ? you guys got necrons.. Remember jain zar and banshees from last year? I member you got those..
Nobody cares anymore lol.
Its just dumb at this point.. with this constant vomiting of power armour+buffs and covid my 40k community has migrated to other stuff like AOS or FOM conquest and WHFB. Our club was finally opened for a couple weeks so I thought I would dip into 9th.. I couldn't get a game of 40k coz people lost all interest in 9th.
But yeah. Sure.. There certainly aint a problem because some necrons got released.. How could I not consider that fixesEVERYTHING
As such, Sorcerers weave complex schemes to bait Chaos Space Marines of other Legions into their cabals. These foreign warriors are promised powers beyond imagining and mastery over the vast array of knowledge the Thousand Sons have harvested. They are given tutelage in the ways of the psyker – or so they believe. In truth, each trial they undertake is another step in the ritualistic binding of their soul to the Helbrute’s machinery. The surges of power felt by the hopeful supplicant are in fact the first twitches of warp-connectivity between their mutating neurons and the arcane servo-relays of the Chaos walker. Only when the ritual is beyond reversing does the victim become aware of their inescapable fate.
It's a bit more than a 'hint', so we can get back on topic.
Argive wrote: Yep as expected.. In the grim darkness of the far future there are only marines..
I hope this all means they wil just churn out all the books over the SM next 6 moths and allow people to play indomitus heresy 42k in peace for the next year while everyone keeps playing warhammer 40k 9th edition with their npc factions.
At least I have the excuse to buy cool kits from mierce over the next few months as there is nothing on offer for me.. Was contemplating starting a small Nid army as a side hustle but naaah... Id rather give my money to another company for awesome looking minis.
Imperial armour though... that's something. (Maybe the wraithseer will be not nerfed) so I'll stick around and play some games.
Did you miss the necron releases, there was like, a dozen new necron kits coming. That forum is so full of toxic negativity. Bore off.
A lot of it is forced. I can't believe that many people really act this way. Surely they know that more armies are coming in the pipe. You cannot release 120 model kits in 6 months for 5 different factions. People. Need. To. Calm. Down.
Yea more marines are coming. Il you think necron release is common you are pipe dreaming. Most will get book and mavbe one hq. Marines meanwhile will keep getting tons of releases. Keep the cashcow milking
tneva82 wrote: I would expect bit more than cow. You can only one silent king. No such restriction on cow
isn't the cow HQ aswell?
Allbeit, if it indeed also get's the HQ slot slap of 20£ more for no reason then F y consumer, then yeah we get rather fast into the 90-100 bracket...
I'd expect the Monolith to be in the £50-70 bracket whilst the Silent King to be in the £100 region. Not only is the Silent King big, but, as noted, he's a hero character most will only buy once. Monoliths and such can be bought multiple times so that can push their price down.
The new Ct'an I'd say could be around the £65mark or so, perhaps up to the £70s.
Honestly Bonereapers are a bit of an enigma in pricing! They are honestly very affordable and very nicely priced compared to many other armies. This is doubly odd when they are an elite style army so should be expected to sell in smaller numbers per customer.
Overread wrote: Honestly Bonereapers are a bit of an enigma in pricing! They are honestly very affordable and very nicely priced compared to many other armies. This is doubly odd when they are an elite style army so should be expected to sell in smaller numbers per customer.
isn't it also one of the few armies that has a 20 man core unit, that isn't a dobule warcry box?
Overread wrote: Honestly Bonereapers are a bit of an enigma in pricing! They are honestly very affordable and very nicely priced compared to many other armies. This is doubly odd when they are an elite style army so should be expected to sell in smaller numbers per customer.
isn't it also one of the few armies that has a 20 man core unit, that isn't a dobule warcry box?
Yep and whilst they aren't huge models, its also very surprising as well considering that they are expensive in points to field. Again Ossiarchs just seem to be really nicely priced by GW compared to many other armies. It's very strange when you've got Ossiarchs with 20 models for £35 when armies like Daughters of Khaine have similar sized models at 10 for £35. Even the warcry boxed sets are £40 for 20ish (it varies and some are bigger)
Overread wrote: Honestly Bonereapers are a bit of an enigma in pricing! They are honestly very affordable and very nicely priced compared to many other armies. This is doubly odd when they are an elite style army so should be expected to sell in smaller numbers per customer.
isn't it also one of the few armies that has a 20 man core unit, that isn't a dobule warcry box?
Yep and whilst they aren't huge models, its also very surprising as well considering that they are expensive in points to field. Again Ossiarchs just seem to be really nicely priced by GW compared to many other armies. It's very strange when you've got Ossiarchs with 20 models for £35 when armies like Daughters of Khaine have similar sized models at 10 for £35. Even the warcry boxed sets are £40 for 20ish (it varies and some are bigger)
Pricing of GW is all over the damn shop since a while now. You got stuff that is amazing value, like the SC boxes in general for most factions, and stuff that is just plain robbery comparatively.
Considering we have the named frankly amazing looking Ossiarchs, which aren't that small to begin with, and at the same pricepoint we got Banshees, which are 15 models less, slightly smaller and cost only 2 Euros less.
It is frankly Absurd pricing. and it get's even absurder when you compare Pts / Price ratios for certain units, every ork player in existence can sing you a song about the price of mek gunz for exemple for good reasons.
On the other side you got GSC neophytes, cheap chaff unit that is not even that large but still costs an arm and leg to field an army from if you want to base around infantry.
I've never had a problem with the price of models not perfectly linking up to points, but I do agree that its very hard to see GW's logic in pricing when models of the same size and similar unit type (eg one off leader or multiple troops) get very different prices.
Broadly speaking we might look at a "full army at 2K points" and estimate that most armies tend to land around the same ballpark, but even then it varied widely depending on the build you choose. Plus who just stops at 2K anyway; esp with armies with a lot of variety and choice .
Overread wrote: I've never had a problem with the price of models not perfectly linking up to points, but I do agree that its very hard to see GW's logic in pricing when models of the same size and similar unit type (eg one off leader or multiple troops) get very different prices.
Broadly speaking we might look at a "full army at 2K points" and estimate that most armies tend to land around the same ballpark, but even then it varied widely depending on the build you choose. Plus who just stops at 2K anyway; esp with armies with a lot of variety and choice .
aye, but the recent pricings have gone too far appart from logic imo.
Best exemple is SC boxes which inherently due to the faction allready vary massively in pts and capability to construct an army, yet the most eregious issue is allways the HQ within the box, without going into the lackluster monoposes often found it is still tremendously more valuable to buy a starter, kitbash or modify some mooks if possible into HQ's then to even consider buying new HQ.
Even worse when one intends to use a specific elite unit type. if it isn't in a decent boxed set it is just outright overly expensive, the new Banshees are a parade exemple for that, for two of these you can buy a whole SC. Which in most cases allows you to field a comfortable battalion with more choice to pick from.
and that is the crux isn't it, sometimes those specific units , that are not found in SC's are important to a subfactions identity , or needed for a competent army (casual or competitive is irrelevant) . If you want to field even 20 of these Banshees you could buy 2 full SC's.and have 8 Euros to spare.
That IS off.
Overread wrote: I'd expect the Monolith to be in the £50-70 bracket whilst the Silent King to be in the £100 region. Not only is the Silent King big, but, as noted, he's a hero character most will only buy once. Monoliths and such can be bought multiple times so that can push their price down.
The new Ct'an I'd say could be around the £65mark or so, perhaps up to the £70s.
I'm expecting the Monolith to be more like £100+, it's pretty big and looks like it has a lot of overlapping layers within that, so expect it to have more plastic than the Tessarect Vault, and looks like less opportunity to use duplicate sprues, maybe a couple of duplicates but the vault is only two different sprues whereas I would expect at least three sprues for the Monolith. Rules wise they were also talking about it being able to take on Knights, so could easily see it being priced at a similar level.
Not sure if this is the best place for it, but WHC has an article about the upcoming weapon upgrades - which states that weapons such as the power sword will be upgraded for all applicable factions when the SM book drops, not just Imperial and Chaos factions.
Banshees are getting a boost, apparently. Not a big one, but a boost nonetheless.
Dysartes wrote: Not sure if this is the best place for it, but WHC has an article about the upcoming weapon upgrades - which states that weapons such as the power sword will be upgraded for all applicable factions when the SM book drops, not just Imperial and Chaos factions.
Banshees are getting a boost, apparently. Not a big one, but a boost nonetheless.
Dunno. S5 Banshees is pretty significant in terms of an efficiency boost?
Dysartes wrote: Not sure if this is the best place for it, but WHC has an article about the upcoming weapon upgrades - which states that weapons such as the power sword will be upgraded for all applicable factions when the SM book drops, not just Imperial and Chaos factions.
Banshees are getting a boost, apparently. Not a big one, but a boost nonetheless.
Dunno. S5 Banshees is pretty significant in terms of an efficiency boost?
NinthMusketeer wrote: The message I got is that everyone will be getting an offense boost. Which seems bad to me.
Honestly, it's better that GW is willing to experiment with statlines instead of sticking with the same legacy crap they've been doing for years upon years.
NinthMusketeer wrote: The message I got is that everyone will be getting an offense boost. Which seems bad to me.
At this point it is almost required considering the resilience of the new SM codex. Sadly that resilience will not be shared by any other faction which worries me a bit considering the overall offensive boost.
NinthMusketeer wrote: The message I got is that everyone will be getting an offense boost. Which seems bad to me.
At this point it is almost required considering the resilience of the new SM codex. Sadly that resilience will not be shared by any other faction which worries me a bit considering the overall offensive boost.
...did you seriously say that it's Marine resilience you're concerned about?
On the same day we got the Reanimation Procotols rules?
NinthMusketeer wrote: The message I got is that everyone will be getting an offense boost.
Agreed. The common weapons are being updated across all of the codices. From the article:
However, it’s not just the Adeptus Astartes who will benefit from all of the shiny new rules found within the next codex. These changes will also be rolled out to all other factions that utilise the same wargear*...
* With updates to many more weapons due alongside future codexes for more exotic, army-specific wargear.
Dysartes wrote: Not sure if this is the best place for it, but WHC has an article about the upcoming weapon upgrades - which states that weapons such as the power sword will be upgraded for all applicable factions when the SM book drops, not just Imperial and Chaos factions.
Banshees are getting a boost, apparently. Not a big one, but a boost nonetheless.
Unfortunately, given the boosts that their favored preys got, it doesn't even gets them to the level they were at the end of 8th.
Dysartes wrote: Not sure if this is the best place for it, but WHC has an article about the upcoming weapon upgrades - which states that weapons such as the power sword will be upgraded for all applicable factions when the SM book drops, not just Imperial and Chaos factions.
Banshees are getting a boost, apparently. Not a big one, but a boost nonetheless.
Dunno. S5 Banshees is pretty significant in terms of an efficiency boost?
Could someone with a Twitter or Facebook account ask them if these upgrades come with an increased points cost or is just a straight up improvement of these weapons? If the latter, what are armies supposed to do that don't receive any improvements? Just be even more at a disadvantage than they already are? I would actually like to play fun games with my Sisters of Battle against my friend who plays Tyranids. That is already though and will only become a lot harder to not have a one-sided slaughterfest.
NinthMusketeer wrote: The message I got is that everyone will be getting an offense boost. Which seems bad to me.
At this point it is almost required considering the resilience of the new SM codex. Sadly that resilience will not be shared by any other faction which worries me a bit considering the overall offensive boost.
...did you seriously say that it's Marine resilience you're concerned about?
On the same day we got the Reanimation Procotols rules?
Yes, or is 3+, T4-5, and 2-3 wounds not resilient, I sometimes get confused? I mean, I don't foresee playing my Aeldari or Tyranids at all in this edition as it currently stands.
Also, I feel like I need to add a disclaimer. not all xenos players play necrons, and Necrons do not represent all xenos players. Necrons are in no way affiliated with the entirety of the Xenos factions which are numerous and not interconnected. A player can be at all times a Necron player, and count as a Xenos player without representing any other Xenos player, whether they be Aeldari, Tyranid, Tau, or any other known associate. A Necron player can be friends with another non-Necron Xenos player, but that does not mean that the Necron faction within the game itself can ally with the faction of said friendly player.
Latro_ wrote: seems storm shields are 4+ +1 save for everyone inc termies
Every thing else is nice for Sisters, but this? This is a bad kick in the nads for Crusaders lol.
yea, but they do get a 2+ save vs anything without an AP which i guess just changes how good they are in various situations. I expect if a horde of boys or lasguns are baring down on them its curtains 2+ or not
NinthMusketeer wrote: The message I got is that everyone will be getting an offense boost. Which seems bad to me.
At this point it is almost required considering the resilience of the new SM codex. Sadly that resilience will not be shared by any other faction which worries me a bit considering the overall offensive boost.
...did you seriously say that it's Marine resilience you're concerned about?
On the same day we got the Reanimation Procotols rules?
Yes, or is 3+, T4-5, and 2-3 wounds not resilient, I sometimes get confused? I mean, I don't foresee playing my Aeldari or Tyranids at all in this edition as it currently stands.
Also, I feel like I need to add a disclaimer. not all xenos players play necrons, and Necrons do not represent all xenos players. Necrons are in no way affiliated with the entirety of the Xenos factions which are numerous and not interconnected. A player can be at all times a Necron player, and count as a Xenos player without representing any other Xenos player, whether they be Aeldari, Tyranid, Tau, or any other known associate. A Necron player can be friends with another non-Necron Xenos player, but that does not mean that the Necron faction within the game itself can ally with the faction of said friendly player.
He didn't come close to saying all Xenos players are Necrons though. He said "This Xenos thing seems even tougher than marines", and left the obvious implication implicit.
Latro_ wrote: yea, but they do get a 2+ save vs anything without an AP
No no, they are not Terminators they are Crusaders. They have a base 5+ or 4+ save (I don't remember which one because it never mattered before). They used to have a 3++, not they have at best a 3+ and a 4++, maybe just a 4++.
Latro_ wrote: yea, but they do get a 2+ save vs anything without an AP
No no, they are not Terminators they are Crusaders. They have a base 5+ or 4+ save (I don't remember which one because it never mattered before). They used to have a 3++, not they have at best a 3+ and a 4++, maybe just a 4++.
oh right, sorry my bad i assumed they had power armour! didn't they have a power armour save at one time?!
Yea, with a 4+ armour save they objectively got worse.
Latro_ wrote: yea, but they do get a 2+ save vs anything without an AP
No no, they are not Terminators they are Crusaders. They have a base 5+ or 4+ save (I don't remember which one because it never mattered before). They used to have a 3++, not they have at best a 3+ and a 4++, maybe just a 4++.
oh right, sorry my bad i assumed they had power armour! didn't they have a power armour save at one time?!
Yea, with a 4+ armour save they objectively got worse.
Well even with 3+ it would be nerf as -2 is so common. It's basically 2+ and you can benefit, otherwise change is nerf. Unsurprisingly article doesn't say it's nerf though. It doesn't sell.
NinthMusketeer wrote: The message I got is that everyone will be getting an offense boost. Which seems bad to me.
At this point it is almost required considering the resilience of the new SM codex. Sadly that resilience will not be shared by any other faction which worries me a bit considering the overall offensive boost.
...did you seriously say that it's Marine resilience you're concerned about?
On the same day we got the Reanimation Procotols rules?
The long and short of it is:
we didn't get the exact details of the rules, but we did find out that it's a FNP-style save that can only be negated by wiping out the whole unit in a single series of attacks.
I love hating GW and 40k as much as some people here but there's a lot of strange indications that everything they are cranking out now has been in the works for almost the entirety of 8th. I feel like all the gak of 8th was just bandaid patches until they flesh out 9th. I also feel like we really have no accurate gauge for how 9th is going to be until 6 months to a year. I also feel like if you aren't Space Marines Necrons or Death Guard, chances are you are in for a rough edition for the next year or so. Chaos Space Marines or Thousand Sons or Sisters are probably getting a codex release relatively early in the edition to sell new and shiny models as well. I also don't think you are getting weapon updates until your codex launches; that would be a messy errata to write when they probably have codices ready to trickle out for the next year. Also also GW has acknowledged that there is a serious problem with diversity in the meta, and I think even they can see the serious implications of space marine players fighting mostly space marine players the vast majority of the time.
TL;DR We don't know how good or bad this edition is going to be since there is a lot of weird behavior exhibited by GW. I am hesitant to condemn anything right now and am even a bit hopeful.
macluvin wrote: I also don't think you are getting weapon updates until your codex launches; that would be a messy errata to write when they probably have codices ready to trickle out for the next year. Also also GW has acknowledged that there is a serious problem with diversity in the meta, and I think even they can see the serious implications of space marine players fighting mostly space marine players the vast majority of the time.
TL;DR We don't know how good or bad this edition is going to be since there is a lot of weird behavior exhibited by GW. I am hesitant to condemn anything right now and am even a bit hopeful.
We know that all (if WHC actually got it right) that all same named weapons in all factions are updated on Codex marines release.
Worryingly I think they are looking at realsing so many Marine models that they cover the diversity element right there...
Dysartes wrote: Wulfen have a 4+ base save at present, so the ones given thunder hammer and storm shield would effectively be 3+/4++/5+++ in the open.
Yep one of the units nerfed with this
IMHO the storm sheild change was proably needed, I think GW wants to walk back from invul saves higher then 4++. stormshields will be good oiver all, but you'll see less of them on captains as the benifits from a storm shield will be pretty minimal
Dysartes wrote: Wulfen have a 4+ base save at present, so the ones given thunder hammer and storm shield would effectively be 3+/4++/5+++ in the open.
Yep one of the units nerfed with this
IMHO the storm sheild change was proably needed, I think GW wants to walk back from invul saves higher then 4++. stormshields will be good oiver all, but you'll see less of them on captains as the benifits from a storm shield will be pretty minimal
It wouldn't have been that bad if you at least had to pay but what 4 pts for 3++? When orks pay 5 for 6+++. Cant even price that appropriately as 4pts doesn't leave room
JWBS wrote: He didn't come close to saying all Xenos players are Necrons though. He said "This Xenos thing seems even tougher than marines", and left the obvious implication implicit.
Which is why I added a disclaimer.as there is a surprising amount of people who equate a single Xenos faction as all Xenos factions.
I do hope Necrons get to be tough, they deserve it. Sadly it won't fix it for all the other xenos factions.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Doohicky wrote: Surely overall the storm shield change is a nerf?
Against ap0 - terminators No change, 3+ save models better
Against ap -1 - Terminators Better, 3+ save models no change
Against ap-2 and better All units worse off.
Stormshields were nasty as they tanked the high AP weapons so easily, it's what they were for. Now they only tank 50% of them.
Personally I am a big fan of the change
Couple that with the new wound allocation and I'm even more of a fan
It's a good change. It is a boost to 2+ units like terminators that now effectively ignore -1 AP, but keeps normal SM armor at 3+. Basically the invuln save has been nerfed, but at the same time the unit has effectively got an ignore -1 AP.
I do like the storm shield change, particularly because of how it works with terminators. I also like how marine chainswords get -1 ap but not regular human ones.
I do not like the feeling that 9th was launched 2/3s the way through its development and the community is acting as playtesters for a set of rules that aren't finished yet. I am used to GW rules quality but this is the first time I have felt like the edition is unfinished and still being developed rather than simply flawed.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I do like the storm shield change, particularly because of how it works with terminators. I also like how marine chainswords get -1 ap but not regular human ones.
.
in fairness astartes are the only army that makes large use of chainswords. outside space marines chainswords are mostly seen as a freebie weapon on guard sergants and SOB sister superiors
I liked how khorne berzerkers were one of the chainsword 'big winners' in the article... like they have not had chain axes that have better stats than the new and improved chainsword!
I mean you can run with both so it's a win, but not as much of one than other units
Now watch what they do with orks and burnas. We are Orks! We are goofy and fun! Our burnas are now 6+d6 inches for range, 2+d3 for strength, ap 0, and 1 dmg. In melee, they are str as user, and ap d2-1, 1 dmg.
Gee, it's almost like an article titled "Codex: Space Marines – Weapons and Wargear Updates " will have a lot of information focused on Space Marines Weapons and Wargear updates and only cursory info on others.
Kanluwen wrote: Gee, it's almost like an article titled "Codex: Space Marines – Weapons and Wargear Updates " will have a lot of information focused on Space Marines Weapons and Wargear updates and only cursory info on others.
Sorry, just thinking some crazy out loud.
Meanwhile SoB quietly benefiting WAY more than space marines...
Latro_ wrote: seems storm shields are 4+ +1 save for everyone inc termies
Every thing else is nice for Sisters, but this? This is a bad kick in the nads for Crusaders lol.
Assuming no points change, Crusaders are making a lateral move. They are less resilient since they only have the same/better save against AP 0 or AP -1 in cover, but their offense goes up with the +1 S on Power Swords. Will that be a useful niche? Probably not, but its better than nothing.
Latro_ wrote:I liked how khorne berzerkers were one of the chainsword 'big winners' in the article... like they have not had chain axes that have better stats than the new and improved chainsword!
I mean you can run with both so it's a win, but not as much of one than other units
Here's a crazy idea. Don't take the chain axe. You still have -1 AP thanks to Astartes Chainsword, you pick up a Bolt Pistol, and you save a point. Sounds like a win, especially if you think of it GW style where I'm sure they are picturing Bolt Pistol and Chainsword/Chainaxe rather than Chainaxe and Chainsword.
Latro_ wrote: seems storm shields are 4+ +1 save for everyone inc termies
Every thing else is nice for Sisters, but this? This is a bad kick in the nads for Crusaders lol.
Assuming no points change, Crusaders are making a lateral move. They are less resilient since they only have the same/better save against AP 0 or AP -1 in cover, but their offense goes up with the +1 S on Power Swords. Will that be a useful niche? Probably not, but its better than nothing.
Latro_ wrote:I liked how khorne berzerkers were one of the chainsword 'big winners' in the article... like they have not had chain axes that have better stats than the new and improved chainsword!
I mean you can run with both so it's a win, but not as much of one than other units
Here's a crazy idea. Don't take the chain axe. You still have -1 AP thanks to Astartes Chainsword, you pick up a Bolt Pistol, and you save a point. Sounds like a win, especially if you think of it GW style where I'm sure they are picturing Bolt Pistol and Chainsword/Chainaxe rather than Chainaxe and Chainsword.
yea, it is a crazy idea i'v never met anyone who plays khorne who even really consider chainaxes as optional extras they're that good.
fact chainswords are better than they were further sinks their bolt pistol into its holster
Doohicky wrote: Surely overall the storm shield change is a nerf?
Against ap0 - terminators No change, 3+ save models better
Against ap -1 - Terminators Better, 3+ save models no change
Against ap-2 and better All units worse off.
Stormshields were nasty as they tanked the high AP weapons so easily, it's what they were for. Now they only tank 50% of them.
Personally I am a big fan of the change
Couple that with the new wound allocation and I'm even more of a fan
Its a good nerf. The fewer 3++ saves in the game the better, as far as I'm concerned.
That's a system math atrocity that should never have happened, especially in a game with so many rerolls.
Kanluwen wrote: Gee, it's almost like an article titled "Codex: Space Marines – Weapons and Wargear Updates " will have a lot of information focused on Space Marines Weapons and Wargear updates and only cursory info on others.
Sorry, just thinking some crazy out loud.
I'm taking bets on how many ork weapons will be upgraded with this update.
Kanluwen wrote: Gee, it's almost like an article titled "Codex: Space Marines – Weapons and Wargear Updates " will have a lot of information focused on Space Marines Weapons and Wargear updates and only cursory info on others.
Sorry, just thinking some crazy out loud.
I'm taking bets on how many ork weapons will be upgraded with this update.
0 is probably going to be a fairly solid bet.
How many Ork weapons are exact name matches with weapons in this preview?
The footnote already said that species variants - for want of a better way of phrasing it - would be covered in their Codex, not in the update alongside the new SM 'dex.
Kanluwen wrote: Gee, it's almost like an article titled "Codex: Space Marines – Weapons and Wargear Updates " will have a lot of information focused on Space Marines Weapons and Wargear updates and only cursory info on others.
Sorry, just thinking some crazy out loud.
I'm taking bets on how many ork weapons will be upgraded with this update.
0 is probably going to be a fairly solid bet.
How many Ork weapons are exact name matches with weapons in this preview?
The footnote already said that species variants - for want of a better way of phrasing it - would be covered in their Codex, not in the update alongside the new SM 'dex.
The irony is that GW has the most incentive to pump out the most recently overhauled model lines' codices to sell the shiny new models first which is... Chaos Space marines, Sisters of Battle, Death Guard, and of course primarisues. I wonder what they all have in common... I feel so bad for Xenos right now...
Automatically Appended Next Post: *edit* Skitarii also count as recently overhauled... So I guess they may get to break the mold. Custodians and Sisters of silence on the other hand...
I'm lucky enough to get an updated DG codex before Christmas to get at least one of my armies up to date, but tipping the scales even more against many players who are already struggling with marines is not a good thing.
Matchmaking in my gaming group pretty much is ten variants of "up for anything but loyalist marines" right now.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
macluvin wrote: Death Guard [...] I wonder what they all have in common...
Fun fact - most death guard models don't get any benefit from this upgrade because they don't have flamers, heavy flamers, power swords, power axes, chainswords, etc but differently named variants with the plague weapon keyword. Outside of helbrutes and defilers who are just copy&paste from CSM, the only affected weapons are the MBH's multi-melta, combi-flamers and combi-melta on blightlords and heavy bolters on predators and land raiders.
I may well be wrong, and I’ll offer my commiserations to Eldar fans if they get stiffed again.
Because yes, they’ve had some nice new kits over the years (I like what they have received, but not playing them probs makes my opinion of lower value), but rarely have it been what the players have been hankering after.
Like asking for a very specific Star Wars toy for Christmas (B-Wing), and getting a different Star Wars toy (Y-Wing) instead.
It might still be a cool toy, but it’s not going to stop you asking for the B-Wing in the future (and nor should it. The key is not to throw a strop for receiving the Y-Wing, because then my parents would just take it away!)
Oh, and they could do with a new Vyper. Overall it’s aged really well (apart from the main canopy, which I could never get to glue properly) but it’s time all the same!
Orks? Arguably in a better place. Their last two outings got some love - but again, not necessarily what fans were asking for. Just need to redo their Finecast, and maybe offer a proper ‘Ardboy kit, and bring back Boarboyz. No I’ve not been reading my 1st Ed Ork books again. You have.
Argive wrote: Well at least the war com article paints an accurate meta landscape in terms of "winners"
You know.. gotta ensure little timmy who was on the fence about starting a wh40k army doesn't pick tyranids or something..
Little Timmy really doesn't care. Little timmy doesn't spend hours poring over statlines. If Timmy thinks the space bugs are cool, he will go for them. Of course chances of that are much smaller than Timmy going for the ZOMG SPACE IRONMAN HEROES WITH CHAINSWORDS, but it has nothing to do with melta stats and everything to do with the fact that marines are designed to appeal to juveniles.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Orks? Arguably in a better place. Their last two outings got some love - but again, not necessarily what fans were asking for. Just need to redo their Finecast, and maybe offer a proper ‘Ardboy kit, and bring back Boarboyz. No I’ve not been reading my 1st Ed Ork books again. You have.
I'm fairly sure that orks were asking for a battle-tank similar to the predator (slam dunk), proper speed freeks HQ (task failed successfully!) and an awesome Thrakka model (another slam dunk).
With the warboss on warbike returning through the FW book, the list of things that orks really need model-wise is rather short.
Personally, I have finally tracked down all the metal models I need to avoid finecast for good, so I'm not in a hurry for new tank bustas or kommandoz.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Orks? Arguably in a better place. Their last two outings got some love - but again, not necessarily what fans were asking for. Just need to redo their Finecast, and maybe offer a proper ‘Ardboy kit, and bring back Boarboyz. No I’ve not been reading my 1st Ed Ork books again. You have.
I'm fairly sure that orks were asking for a battle-tank similar to the predator (slam dunk), proper speed freeks HQ (task failed successfully!) and an awesome Thrakka model (another slam dunk).
With the warboss on warbike returning through the FW book, the list of things that orks really need model-wise is rather short.
Personally, I have finally tracked down all the metal models I need to avoid finecast for good, so I'm not in a hurry for new tank bustas or kommandoz.
I've got a list of things for Orks I'd like to see.
1: Plastic Dekkcoptas
2: A plastic Warboss, (maybe in Megaarmor?)
3: leave Boyz alone If I start Orks in earnest I'd rather not be paying 70 bucks CDN a box.
No, no they don't. Custodes already have a 4++. Getting a 1+ is only useful against ap-1 and irrelevant against ap-2, and cutodes pay a premium for storm shields, and that price hasn't changed. And ap -2 has pretty much become the de facto marine ap with the doctrines.
So, no, it's a straight nerf to custodes on top of how much ap and extra damage marines are getting making them an increasingly hard counter.
Custodes looked good at the open of 8th, but they're looking comparatively worse and worse with all the changes. None of the imperium weapon changes propagate to custodes except the storm shield nerf unless you're one of those mavericks running a land raider, and then only its Heavy Bolters. Or flagellate yourself with the bad dreadnought that remains bad. And all the weapon changes hurt custodes by making them easier to kill.
No, no they don't. Custodes already have a 4++. Getting a 1+ is only useful against ap-1 and irrelevant against ap-2, and cutodes pay a premium for storm shields, and that price hasn't changed. And ap -2 has pretty much become the de facto marine ap with the doctrines.
Cuda is referring to the fact Custodes increase invulnerable saves by 1 so their Storm Shields are still 3++ vs everyone else on top of the new +1 to the save roll.
Argive wrote: Well at least the war com article paints an accurate meta landscape in terms of "winners"
You know.. gotta ensure little timmy who was on the fence about starting a wh40k army doesn't pick tyranids or something..
Little Timmy really doesn't care. Little timmy doesn't spend hours poring over statlines. If Timmy thinks the space bugs are cool, he will go for them. Of course chances of that are much smaller than Timmy going for the ZOMG SPACE IRONMAN HEROES WITH CHAINSWORDS, but it has nothing to do with melta stats and everything to do with the fact that marines are designed to appeal to juveniles.
Except little timmy will pick cool unique space alienz coz he seen the movie Aliens and it was dope. While little jimmy will pick special marines. They will play games on their moms kitchen table/living room carpet using salt shakers and mugs as terrain. And timmy will never win a game.. how long do you think timmy will stick at the hobby? I know the answer i was timmy..
I mean, I picked Dark Eldar side of the 3rd ed starter. Point is, it's extremely unlikely TImmy will ever pick anything but marines to start with, because they're designed to appeal to Timmies. The fact is, GW doesn't care for timmies that would be on the fence, if they could sell only Marines and somehow maintain viable player population (which seems to be the case now) it's only in their favor- they suddenly don't have to produce nowhere near as many SKUs.
Except little timmy will pick cool unique space alienz coz he seen the movie Aliens and it was dope. While little jimmy will pick special marines. They will play games on their moms kitchen table/living room carpet using salt shakers and mugs as terrain. And timmy will never win a game.. how long do you think timmy will stick at the hobby? I know the answer i was timmy..
Cronch wrote: I mean, I picked Dark Eldar side of the 3rd ed starter. Point is, it's extremely unlikely TImmy will ever pick anything but marines to start with, because they're designed to appeal to Timmies. The fact is, GW doesn't care for timmies that would be on the fence, if they could sell only Marines and somehow maintain viable player population (which seems to be the case now) it's only in their favor- they suddenly don't have to produce nowhere near as many SKUs.
It's anecdotal but doesn't that sort of prove this is not really a rule? we both picked non-marines as our first childhood armies.
To me, Marines seem to have become the chads minature of 40k... Not little timmys.
So I think GW is trying to sell to wealthy chad whales than little timmys at this point And if that's true the hobby population won't expand but erode.
Except little timmy will pick cool unique space alienz coz he seen the movie Aliens and it was dope. While little jimmy will pick special marines. They will play games on their moms kitchen table/living room carpet using salt shakers and mugs as terrain. And timmy will never win a game.. how long do you think timmy will stick at the hobby? I know the answer i was timmy..
How long did you stick at the hobby?
Maybe a year and a bit? Lost interest pretty quickly. My pocket money would be saved up for Gameboy and PS1 games and MTG instead of Turanids because there was not much point adding to an army that was getting thrashed by everyone I came up against which was predominately Eldar, tau, and SM.. I remember being fairly even vs chaos. This was 3rd ed I think. (The black templars book cover)
Cronch wrote: I mean, I picked Dark Eldar side of the 3rd ed starter. Point is, it's extremely unlikely TImmy will ever pick anything but marines to start with, because they're designed to appeal to Timmies. The fact is, GW doesn't care for timmies that would be on the fence, if they could sell only Marines and somehow maintain viable player population (which seems to be the case now) it's only in their favor- they suddenly don't have to produce nowhere near as many SKUs.
It's anecdotal but doesn't that sort of prove this is not really a rule? we both picked non-marines as our first childhood armies.
To me, Marines seem to have become the chads minature of 40k... Not little timmys.
So I think GW is trying to sell to wealthy chad whales than little timmys at this point And if that's true the hobby population won't expand but erode.
Except little timmy will pick cool unique space alienz coz he seen the movie Aliens and it was dope. While little jimmy will pick special marines. They will play games on their moms kitchen table/living room carpet using salt shakers and mugs as terrain. And timmy will never win a game.. how long do you think timmy will stick at the hobby? I know the answer i was timmy..
How long did you stick at the hobby?
Maybe a year and a bit? Lost interest pretty quickly. My pocket money would be saved up for Gameboy and PS1 games and MTG instead of Turanids because there was not much point adding to an army that was getting thrashed by everyone I came up against which was predominately Eldar, tau, and SM.. I remember being fairly even vs chaos. This was 3rd ed I think. (The black templars book cover)
Let me get this straight. You last participated in 40k over 20 years ago and you're still posting in these threads?
Again, anecdotal, but this tracks with my experience too. My 2 brothers and I got the 2nd ed starter as kids... I took the Blood Angels, one brother took the Orks, the other ended up collecting Tyranids.
I'm the only one that's still even remotely close to the hobby.
Then again, I could just as easily attribute it to being the youngest brother, and getting a couple more years' play in with schoolmates while my brothers were off clubbing, drinking, and going out with girls and stuff.
Super Ready wrote: Again, anecdotal, but this tracks with my experience too. My 2 brothers and I got the 2nd ed starter as kids... I took the Blood Angels, one brother took the Orks, the other ended up collecting Tyranids.
I'm the only one that's still even remotely close to the hobby.
Then again, I could just as easily attribute it to being the youngest brother, and getting a couple more years' play in with schoolmates while my brothers were off clubbing, drinking, and going out with girls and stuff.
Pfft... who needs girls when you have plastic crack?
Super Ready wrote: Again, anecdotal, but this tracks with my experience too. My 2 brothers and I got the 2nd ed starter as kids... I took the Blood Angels, one brother took the Orks, the other ended up collecting Tyranids.
I'm the only one that's still even remotely close to the hobby.
Then again, I could just as easily attribute it to being the youngest brother, and getting a couple more years' play in with schoolmates while my brothers were off clubbing, drinking, and going out with girls and stuff.
Pfft... who needs girls when you have plastic crack?
I started with... Lizardmen, because they were in the WFB starter and looked cool. When I joined 40k because annoyed at not finding games, I hesitated a lot between tyranids and sisters of battle.
Super Ready wrote: Again, anecdotal, but this tracks with my experience too. My 2 brothers and I got the 2nd ed starter as kids... I took the Blood Angels, one brother took the Orks, the other ended up collecting Tyranids.
I'm the only one that's still even remotely close to the hobby.
Then again, I could just as easily attribute it to being the youngest brother, and getting a couple more years' play in with schoolmates while my brothers were off clubbing, drinking, and going out with girls and stuff.
Pfft... who needs girls when you have plastic crack?
Cronch wrote: I mean, I picked Dark Eldar side of the 3rd ed starter. Point is, it's extremely unlikely TImmy will ever pick anything but marines to start with, because they're designed to appeal to Timmies. The fact is, GW doesn't care for timmies that would be on the fence, if they could sell only Marines and somehow maintain viable player population (which seems to be the case now) it's only in their favor- they suddenly don't have to produce nowhere near as many SKUs.
It's anecdotal but doesn't that sort of prove this is not really a rule? we both picked non-marines as our first childhood armies.
To me, Marines seem to have become the chads minature of 40k... Not little timmys.
So I think GW is trying to sell to wealthy chad whales than little timmys at this point And if that's true the hobby population won't expand but erode.
Except little timmy will pick cool unique space alienz coz he seen the movie Aliens and it was dope. While little jimmy will pick special marines. They will play games on their moms kitchen table/living room carpet using salt shakers and mugs as terrain. And timmy will never win a game.. how long do you think timmy will stick at the hobby? I know the answer i was timmy..
How long did you stick at the hobby?
Maybe a year and a bit? Lost interest pretty quickly. My pocket money would be saved up for Gameboy and PS1 games and MTG instead of Turanids because there was not much point adding to an army that was getting thrashed by everyone I came up against which was predominately Eldar, tau, and SM.. I remember being fairly even vs chaos. This was 3rd ed I think. (The black templars book cover)
Let me get this straight. You last participated in 40k over 20 years ago and you're still posting in these threads?
Well, that is Dakka in a nutshell. Lots of people who armchair general, complain, mathhammer, and know more than the developers and designers, all while not actively playing the game (and this was pre-Covid)
With re: to Timmy and Jimmy. GW wins if Timmy buys Nids and then stops. While Jimmy buys SM and continues to buy. GW doesn't expect everyone to stick, they hope enough stick, and enough short-timers drop their $300-500 (What's that now, 6 kits?) on the game and then walk.
My first army was Chaos Marines back in 2nd through 4thish. Then picked up Marines (Flesh Tearers) till about 6th? Somewhere in there I picked up Dark Eldar, while maintaining my FT. Also managed to get Krieg. Chaos got sold off to buy Heresy Word Bearers. Played some 8th as FT and DE, didn't care for it (had nothing to do with 'competitiveness'), and 9th holds zero to bring me back. So I'm done. Doesn't mean I won't post occasionally, since I follow the "hobby".
Cronch wrote: I mean, I picked Dark Eldar side of the 3rd ed starter. Point is, it's extremely unlikely TImmy will ever pick anything but marines to start with, because they're designed to appeal to Timmies. The fact is, GW doesn't care for timmies that would be on the fence, if they could sell only Marines and somehow maintain viable player population (which seems to be the case now) it's only in their favor- they suddenly don't have to produce nowhere near as many SKUs.
It's anecdotal but doesn't that sort of prove this is not really a rule? we both picked non-marines as our first childhood armies.
To me, Marines seem to have become the chads minature of 40k... Not little timmys. So I think GW is trying to sell to wealthy chad whales than little timmys at this point And if that's true the hobby population won't expand but erode.
Except little timmy will pick cool unique space alienz coz he seen the movie Aliens and it was dope. While little jimmy will pick special marines. They will play games on their moms kitchen table/living room carpet using salt shakers and mugs as terrain. And timmy will never win a game.. how long do you think timmy will stick at the hobby? I know the answer i was timmy..
How long did you stick at the hobby?
Maybe a year and a bit? Lost interest pretty quickly. My pocket money would be saved up for Gameboy and PS1 games and MTG instead of Turanids because there was not much point adding to an army that was getting thrashed by everyone I came up against which was predominately Eldar, tau, and SM.. I remember being fairly even vs chaos. This was 3rd ed I think. (The black templars book cover)
Let me get this straight. You last participated in 40k over 20 years ago and you're still posting in these threads?
Well, that is Dakka in a nutshell. Lots of people who armchair general, complain, mathhammer, and know more than the developers and designers, all while not actively playing the game (and this was pre-Covid)
With re: to Timmy and Jimmy. GW wins if Timmy buys Nids and then stops. While Jimmy buys SM and continues to buy. GW doesn't expect everyone to stick, they hope enough stick, and enough short-timers drop their $300-500 (What's that now, 6 kits?) on the game and then walk.
My first army was Chaos Marines back in 2nd through 4thish. Then picked up Marines (Flesh Tearers) till about 6th? Somewhere in there I picked up Dark Eldar, while maintaining my FT. Also managed to get Krieg. Chaos got sold off to buy Heresy Word Bearers. Played some 8th as FT and DE, didn't care for it (had nothing to do with 'competitiveness'), and 9th holds zero to bring me back. So I'm done. Doesn't mean I won't post occasionally, since I follow the "hobby".
Let me get this straight.. you actually think i played warhammer 20 years ago and quit and have been on a warhammer forum since commenting on warhammer??? Cool... cool....
As you seem to be somehow thinking that.. I was telling of my first ever foray into wh40k (when I was like 11-12?) and sharing an anecdotal experience about what drew me in and what might be drawing other kids in.. and how it might be relvant to current times.. If you really must know, after the nids thing I stopped 40k entirely.. Have picked it up again for a brief spell and dropped it again about 7 years ago(literly painted one unit of guardians..)
I started WH40k again proper 2 years ago when my GF gave me palenor fields box set and I need d anew hobby that doesn't involve getting punched in the face or doing drugs/drinking. I've branched to other miniatures not just GW for the purposes of hobbying but 40k is still my main game which i have been playign on weekly/bi weekly basis before pandemic..
Cronch wrote: I mean, I picked Dark Eldar side of the 3rd ed starter. Point is, it's extremely unlikely TImmy will ever pick anything but marines to start with, because they're designed to appeal to Timmies. The fact is, GW doesn't care for timmies that would be on the fence, if they could sell only Marines and somehow maintain viable player population (which seems to be the case now) it's only in their favor- they suddenly don't have to produce nowhere near as many SKUs.
It's anecdotal but doesn't that sort of prove this is not really a rule? we both picked non-marines as our first childhood armies.
To me, Marines seem to have become the chads minature of 40k... Not little timmys.
So I think GW is trying to sell to wealthy chad whales than little timmys at this point And if that's true the hobby population won't expand but erode.
Except little timmy will pick cool unique space alienz coz he seen the movie Aliens and it was dope. While little jimmy will pick special marines. They will play games on their moms kitchen table/living room carpet using salt shakers and mugs as terrain. And timmy will never win a game.. how long do you think timmy will stick at the hobby? I know the answer i was timmy..
How long did you stick at the hobby?
Maybe a year and a bit? Lost interest pretty quickly. My pocket money would be saved up for Gameboy and PS1 games and MTG instead of Turanids because there was not much point adding to an army that was getting thrashed by everyone I came up against which was predominately Eldar, tau, and SM.. I remember being fairly even vs chaos. This was 3rd ed I think. (The black templars book cover)
Let me get this straight. You last participated in 40k over 20 years ago and you're still posting in these threads?
Well, that is Dakka in a nutshell. Lots of people who armchair general, complain, mathhammer, and know more than the developers and designers, all while not actively playing the game (and this was pre-Covid)
With re: to Timmy and Jimmy. GW wins if Timmy buys Nids and then stops. While Jimmy buys SM and continues to buy. GW doesn't expect everyone to stick, they hope enough stick, and enough short-timers drop their $300-500 (What's that now, 6 kits?) on the game and then walk.
My first army was Chaos Marines back in 2nd through 4thish. Then picked up Marines (Flesh Tearers) till about 6th? Somewhere in there I picked up Dark Eldar, while maintaining my FT. Also managed to get Krieg. Chaos got sold off to buy Heresy Word Bearers. Played some 8th as FT and DE, didn't care for it (had nothing to do with 'competitiveness'), and 9th holds zero to bring me back. So I'm done. Doesn't mean I won't post occasionally, since I follow the "hobby".
Let me get this straight.. you actually think i played warhammer 20 years ago and quit and have been on a warhammer forum since commenting on warhammer??? Cool... cool....
As you seem to be somehow thinking that.. I was telling of my first ever foray into wh40k (when I was like 11-12?) and sharing an anecdotal experience about what drew me in and what might be drawing other kids in.. and how it might be relvant to current times.. If you really must know, after the nids thing I stopped 40k entirely.. Have picked it up again for a brief spell and dropped it again about 7 years ago(literly painted one unit of guardians..)
I started WH40k again proper 2 years ago when my GF gave me palenor fields box set and I need d anew hobby that doesn't involve getting punched in the face or doing drugs/drinking.
I've branched to other miniatures not just GW for the purposes of hobbying but 40k is still my main game which i have been playign on weekly/bi weekly basis before pandemic..
Legit question since you said quit and didn't elaborate, I mean I figured you must have picked up again myself, but you didn't say... explain why you got back in etc
I just had a startling realisation. You don;t think Primaris Custodes could be in the works do you? I mean, with heavy intercessors at T5 and 3 wounds what exactly differentiates the elite protectors of Mankind and the emperor's closest genetic descendants (beyond the primarchs) from....common space marines?
Except little timmy will pick cool unique space alienz coz he seen the movie Aliens and it was dope. While little jimmy will pick special marines. They will play games on their moms kitchen table/living room carpet using salt shakers and mugs as terrain. And timmy will never win a game.. how long do you think timmy will stick at the hobby? I know the answer i was timmy..
I think that really depends on Timmy, and what he expects to get out of playing games.
My older brother and I didn't have warhammer, growing up. But we did play a lot of boardgames. Most commonly Chess, which he always won, and Monopoly, which he always won. We also played a lot of soccer and cricket, which he was always better at. None of that ever discouraged me from continuing to do those things, because playing the games was the reward. We grew up with a steady diet of board games, and had the idea bored in at a very early age that winning was a bonus, not the goal.
Which was a handy lesson, once I did start playing 40k, since I've lost an awful lot more games than I have won, over the years...
Necronmaniac05 wrote: I just had a startling realisation. You don;t think Primaris Custodes could be in the works do you? I mean, with heavy intercessors at T5 and 3 wounds what exactly differentiates the elite protectors of Mankind and the emperor's closest genetic descendants (beyond the primarchs) from....common space marines?
I could see them revising custodes a little if it comes to that. that said, since they've decided that terminator armor grants you an extra wound, at the very least Allarus Custodes should have their wounds increased by 1
Necronmaniac05 wrote: I just had a startling realisation. You don;t think Primaris Custodes could be in the works do you? I mean, with heavy intercessors at T5 and 3 wounds what exactly differentiates the elite protectors of Mankind and the emperor's closest genetic descendants (beyond the primarchs) from....common space marines?
You mean besides WS/BS 2+, S 5, A 3, LD 8, Sv 2+/4++ and 6+++ vs MW from Psychic Powers? I guess not much
Except little timmy will pick cool unique space alienz coz he seen the movie Aliens and it was dope. While little jimmy will pick special marines. They will play games on their moms kitchen table/living room carpet using salt shakers and mugs as terrain. And timmy will never win a game.. how long do you think timmy will stick at the hobby? I know the answer i was timmy..
I think that really depends on Timmy, and what he expects to get out of playing games.
My older brother and I didn't have warhammer, growing up. But we did play a lot of boardgames. Most commonly Chess, which he always won, and Monopoly, which he always won. We also played a lot of soccer and cricket, which he was always better at. None of that ever discouraged me from continuing to do those things, because playing the games was the reward. We grew up with a steady diet of board games, and had the idea bored in at a very early age that winning was a bonus, not the goal.
Which was a handy lesson, once I did start playing 40k, since I've lost an awful lot more games than I have won, over the years...
Was he always the bank? I played a lot of monopoly and I seemed to have been winning all the games I was the bank
Certainly a fair point raised, it is not all about winning. But if you are always loosing its not good either. For me the driving factor behind board games and table top games is simply fairness and all involved having a pretty equal chance of winning. Dice are a bit of the chaos that gets sprinkled in to spice things up IMO.
As kids we made up rules as we went along for a lot of it to be honest. Tape measures were quite a rarity so had to stick rulers together and stuff Fond memories. Alas, constantly loosing wasn't the sole reason for leaving the hobby at that point, but it was certainly a big factor for not being as interested.
Losing all the time can be unhealthy. That said nothing stops you realising that there's a skill/army difference between two people and building that into the game. If someone always wins/loses then a handicap can be applied. Eg one might have to score more points or might have fewer points to use.
The idea being that you make up for some repeat imbalance and attempt to create game where both players have a roughly equal challenge (or as close as you can get).
Necronmaniac05 wrote: I just had a startling realisation. You don;t think Primaris Custodes could be in the works do you? I mean, with heavy intercessors at T5 and 3 wounds what exactly differentiates the elite protectors of Mankind and the emperor's closest genetic descendants (beyond the primarchs) from....common space marines?
Given their relationship with the original fluff (and look), the current Custodes effectively _are_ 'Primaris Custodes,' and there's even less justification for them to be wandering about outside the Imperial Palace, let alone Terra.
No, no they don't. Custodes already have a 4++. Getting a 1+ is only useful against ap-1 and irrelevant against ap-2, and cutodes pay a premium for storm shields, and that price hasn't changed. And ap -2 has pretty much become the de facto marine ap with the doctrines.
So, no, it's a straight nerf to custodes on top of how much ap and extra damage marines are getting making them an increasingly hard counter.
Custodes looked good at the open of 8th, but they're looking comparatively worse and worse with all the changes. None of the imperium weapon changes propagate to custodes except the storm shield nerf unless you're one of those mavericks running a land raider, and then only its Heavy Bolters. Or flagellate yourself with the bad dreadnought that remains bad. And all the weapon changes hurt custodes by making them easier to kill.
Custodes still get the 3++. Literally all this does is give them +1 armor.
Custodes +1 invul works on any invul so a SS custode is 1+ 3++
Now I'll have something to point to when someone asks why I don't want to bother playing 
