I can't see Angelus being delayed until the end of 2018, they can't keep making that many space marine legion shoulder pads, torso's, helmets and variant weapons to fit onto Sicarians.
I know you're not entirely serious, but I think you're underestimating quite how much from the the existing HH books still doesn't have a model. Then there are transfers (House Malinax still hasn;t been released, some of the older sets like Emperor's Children might be updated to the new standard) and brass etch sheets they could do and even (whisper it) more non-heresy stuff!
I can't see Angelus being delayed until the end of 2018, they can't keep making that many space marine legion shoulder pads, torso's, helmets and variant weapons to fit onto Sicarians.
I know you're not entirely serious, but I think you're underestimating quite how much from the the existing HH books still doesn't have a model. Then there are transfers (House Malinax still hasn;t been released, some of the older sets like Emperor's Children might be updated to the new standard) and brass etch sheets they could do and even (whisper it) more non-heresy stuff!
Malinax is released, you must be thinking of something else.
Crazyterran wrote:I mean, Ultramarines only have two special units done, of all Legions! Ultramarines!
None of our SCs (other than Guilliman), no Locutarii, no Fulmentarii. Just Invictarii and Guilliman.
Ultras have the Invictarii heads and torso upgrades, Praetorian head and torso upgrades, Praetorian Breacher upgrade, Suezarin and Guilliman. While some of that might not be a specialist unit, it means they've got plenty more than some others.
I can't see Angelus being delayed until the end of 2018, they can't keep making that many space marine legion shoulder pads, torso's, helmets and variant weapons to fit onto Sicarians.
I know you're not entirely serious, but I think you're underestimating quite how much from the the existing HH books still doesn't have a model. Then there are transfers (House Malinax still hasn;t been released, some of the older sets like Emperor's Children might be updated to the new standard) and brass etch sheets they could do and even (whisper it) more non-heresy stuff!
Malinax is released, you must be thinking of something else.
Whoops, missed those and I'm used to people banging on about them not being out!
It's ok, at least you got to see some acknowledgement that your army exists. That's apparently more than anyone who doesn't play marines gets.
Yeah, TFW someone is complaining they haven gotten enough Ultramarine specific stuff since their book came out 2 years ago,, and the last Necron release from FW was over 5 years ago... and that was a minimum effort kit that was a 90% kitbash of plastickits.
I can't see Angelus being delayed until the end of 2018, they can't keep making that many space marine legion shoulder pads, torso's, helmets and variant weapons to fit onto Sicarians.
I know you're not entirely serious, but I think you're underestimating quite how much from the the existing HH books still doesn't have a model. Then there are transfers (House Malinax still hasn;t been released, some of the older sets like Emperor's Children might be updated to the new standard) and brass etch sheets they could do and even (whisper it) more non-heresy stuff!
The house Malinax transfer sheet is amazing. I got it because my 30k Mechanicum is Xana II, the bone and dark grey/black is really easy to paint and to make look nice. I am not going to win Golden Demon anytime soon but a nicely painted army is always a pleasure to play against and I feel like I owe it to myself and my opponent to paint my stuff up. My Atrapos and Acheron look great with the scorpion transfers on them. I can't wait until I get my Warhound, that will be fun times.
It's ok, at least you got to see some acknowledgement that your army exists. That's apparently more than anyone who doesn't play marines gets.
Yeah, TFW someone is complaining they haven gotten enough Ultramarine specific stuff since their book came out 2 years ago,, and the last Necron release from FW was over 5 years ago... and that was a minimum effort kit that was a 90% kitbash of plastickits.
I really hope it was sarcasm.
Tfw someone expects to get forge world releases as a Xenos player, despite Xenos being an after thought for Imperials to smack down even before the HH launched.
Also, FW has always given the Ultramarines the short end from the model perspective, seeing as even before, our Ven Dread was just a slightly altered old metal GW ven dread. I dont mind UM getting short changed HH side, except when i see the next dozen Traitor releases (Loyalists getting boned in general, release wise).
As far as loyalists getting shafter, dont forget that the Custodes are loyalists, and are Forgeworlds new perfect child (at least until GW proper wisens up and starts fleshing out a plastic custodes line)
But seriously, the custodes models are so fracking gorgeous.
Noblebright in 40k is worth it if we can get a setting of custodes pattern equipment.
My Custodes are in a slightly awkward half state where I don't know if Hetaerons or the variant spear types are getting models, so I have pretty minimal troops and am focusing more on dreads and bikes... Will be adding terminators now.
I would not suppose they said anything about some of the missing datasheets for things like battlefortresses and the like, i got a lot of space dork stuff i cant really use properly currently :-(
Verviedi wrote: Space Marines get 2-4 times as many kits as Dark Eldar. It's not like anything is coming out for Guard, Inquisiton, AdMech, or Sisters, either.
Does anyone know what happened to the Iron Hands Contemptor? It seems to have vanished from the store.
2-4 per month.
I sympathise with Sisters but Ad Mech are quite new and Guard have a lot already. We can look at the number of items in the store. Imperium - 434, SM - 246, IG - 112, DE - 4 (of which 2 are the same book, physical and digital).
Its been 6 years since DE got anything and they actually lost a flyer in that time.
Could we maybe reserve this thread for things actually previewed and somewhere in the pipeline from Forgeworld?.. even if they're a comically delayed joke like Dorn or Cyraxis? Maybe you guys should start a new thread complaining about what Forgeworld isn't ever coming out with instead of cataloging it here.
Verviedi wrote: Space Marines get 2-4 times as many kits as Dark Eldar. It's not like anything is coming out for Guard, Inquisiton, AdMech, or Sisters, either.
Does anyone know what happened to the Iron Hands Contemptor? It seems to have vanished from the store.
I heard somewhere that the Iron Hands Contemptor mold broke, and they are making a new one. Not sure if that means new sculpt or the same sculpt just with a new mold though.
Prepare to get blasted off your seats - a preview that isn't space marine related:
Forge World Preview: The Tiger Shark AX-1-0 – Rearmed
A classic Forge World Flyer is returning soon with the redesigned and re-armed Tiger Shark AX-1-0. This colossal aircraft is a dedicated Titan-hunter, armed with twin heavy rail cannons capable of scrapping even larger tanks in a single burst; each is Strength 18, with an AP of -5, and causes 2D6 Wounds, with double damage against Titanic units. In short, if you want to give an Imperial Knights player a very, very bad day, this is the Flyer for you.
The Tiger Shark has been redesigned much like its smaller cousin, the Barracuda AX-5-2, with a sleeker appearance and extra detail. There are also some new weapon options coming to represent the Tiger Shark Fighter-Bomber – a pair of heavy burst cannons or ion cannons.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Ah, the ol' D'ues Ex T'auicha - the unit that basically ruined the narrative of IA3 with its absurdity.
Nice new model.
.Why is that? Iirc taros only had warhounds in their fluff which these should be capable of taking down.
Because titans died instead of being unstoppable slaughter machines that crushed the helpless Tau. Some imperial fans hate the idea that titans are really kind of terrible and can be wiped off the battlefield by superior units.
The regular Tigerhsark looks better, but the AX 1-0 is superior. Oh the pain. :(
Also looking at the last page discussion about them being understaffed it sounds like Fires has been shelved then? Welp that means the end of any possible non-marine releases for a decade or so.
Verviedi wrote: Space Marines get 2-4 times as many kits as Dark Eldar. It's not like anything is coming out for Guard, Inquisiton, AdMech, or Sisters, either.
Does anyone know what happened to the Iron Hands Contemptor? It seems to have vanished from the store.
I heard somewhere that the Iron Hands Contemptor mold broke, and they are making a new one. Not sure if that means new sculpt or the same sculpt just with a new mold though.
Thank you. Hopefully, it's fixed soon.
The Tigershark looks great, but unfortunately I don't see myself buying one. I haven't been having much fun at all playing Tau as of late.
Well no wonder outside of commander spam lists the nu-Tau are terrible. Even if you don't want to be competitive all the interesting Tau stuff other armies can basically do better now. Tau are lacking in any kind of identity on the tabletop.
Gamgee wrote: Well no wonder outside of commander spam lists the nu-Tau are terrible. Even if you don't want to be competitive all the interesting Tau stuff other armies can basically do better now. Tau are lacking in any kind of identity on the tabletop.
Rumour has it that they're trying to perfect hair casting technology
so they can provide a full alpha legion squad with a single perfect resin villains quick release moustache so any of them can be (name redacted or that other fellow name not even known)
Gamgee wrote: Well no wonder outside of commander spam lists the nu-Tau are terrible. Even if you don't want to be competitive all the interesting Tau stuff other armies can basically do better now. Tau are lacking in any kind of identity on the tabletop.
Yeah, it's mostly the second. I don't care about competitiveness, usually, but Tau are just so dull, now. I want an interesting army.
Gamgee wrote: Well no wonder outside of commander spam lists the nu-Tau are terrible. Even if you don't want to be competitive all the interesting Tau stuff other armies can basically do better now. Tau are lacking in any kind of identity on the tabletop.
That weapon profile seems...excessive. Unless that thing costs a fortune in both money and points, it's going to give a big ol' box of ammo to the "FW is pay2win cheese" crowd.
True. The Ta'unar railgun has the same stats, but I think the taunar costs more. In theory it also gains a cluster launcher alongside the Railgun to make up for the lack of shots, but the cluster system in 8th has been nerfed to be an anti-charge thing where if enemy models are within 3 inches on a 4+ they take an invulnerable save.
The only things brave enough to charge a freaking titan are things that can kill it which tend to be strong enough a single mortal wound isn't going to matter.
It costs 5 more points than the default pulse ordinance and law of averages means the pulse ordinance will out damage the single heavy rail gun by huge magnitudes.
It's a complete downgrade for the Ta'unar in every way and a laughable weapon options. Forgeworld really needs to buff the cluster shells to be an additional weapon again to actually make it worth the damn cost.
So I just discovered this on the warscroll builder.
This makes me very hopeful that the Fimir aren't abandoned after all, and I've been told by a FW employee(albeit over the phone) that more Fimir are coming. Though I believe it may have been a few months ago. I took it with a grain of salt til I saw this.
You know, important stuff, like when that Alpharius model is going to be released finally!!!
NEVER!!!!! In all seriousness how many years have you been waiting on that one?
Three years now, I think?
Not a big deal, sure, but...they really ought to at least release all the Primarch models from Book 3 already!
A buddy told me something...interesting.
That primarchs are released when they had an important part in the heresy, not when they got a book, but that might be bollocks
Gamgee wrote: The regular Tigerhsark looks better, but the AX 1-0 is superior. Oh the pain. :(
Also looking at the last page discussion about them being understaffed it sounds like Fires has been shelved then? Welp that means the end of any possible non-marine releases for a decade or so.
I don't think FoC is shelved. I do find it strange that they won't even tell us anything new about it though. Surely they could atleast confirm if it's still coming or not? IIRC the latest we saw was from Warhammer World, a few slides in the presentation, with some artwork of Tau and 30k Mechanicum stuff for 40k.
Take as long as it needs, but don't keep us in the dark. I have been thinking lately that both GW and FW have gotten so much better at disclosing information, but this is a little sad.
Gamgee wrote: The regular Tigerhsark looks better, but the AX 1-0 is superior. Oh the pain. :(
Also looking at the last page discussion about them being understaffed it sounds like Fires has been shelved then? Welp that means the end of any possible non-marine releases for a decade or so.
I don't think FoC is shelved. I do find it strange that they won't even tell us anything new about it though. Surely they could atleast confirm if it's still coming or not? IIRC the latest we saw was from Warhammer World, a few slides in the presentation, with some artwork of Tau and 30k Mechanicum stuff for 40k.
Take as long as it needs, but don't keep us in the dark. I have been thinking lately that both GW and FW have gotten so much better at disclosing information, but this is a little sad.
Someone said earlier they need to wait until the Tau & AdMech codex are out before they can release it.
unmercifulconker wrote: What a good opportunity that would be to release a campaign book, adding expansion rules to armies that would now have 8th codex's.
unmercifulconker wrote: What a good opportunity that would be to release a campaign book, adding expansion rules to armies that would now have 8th codex's.
Tau coming this year? Eh... possible. Reece did say there are changes being made to Riptide's. I mean why would they be testing those so soon if the dex is not coming out in the first wave.
On the other hand there are a ton of rando's out there who seem to be confident to tell me GW is focusing on Imperium this year and not to expect xenos. Not to mention Lady Atia has said the Tau are getting a big release at some point and if it is true GW is going to focus on Imperium this year then I find it odd that they would do the Tau release this year. I mean if it happens cool but I find it unlikely. More than likely they are going to find a way to release more power armored mini's.
You know, important stuff, like when that Alpharius model is going to be released finally!!!
NEVER!!!!! In all seriousness how many years have you been waiting on that one?
Three years now, I think?
Not a big deal, sure, but...they really ought to at least release all the Primarch models from Book 3 already!
A buddy told me something...interesting.
That primarchs are released when they had an important part in the heresy, not when they got a book, but that might be bollocks
Meaning Alpharius will be the last one since he is Dead...and because with new releases, there will ofcourse be new more interesting one to release...Lion&Angel will be released befor him for sure. Khan after them very possibly etc.
It would be pretty cool if in addition to the fancy Primarch armoured version they also included a "free" standard power armour model in the box for him as well.
Master of Mankind hasn't been out in paperback for that long guys, maybe a touch of consideration for those that didn't immediately grab it or the hardback would be good?
Alpharius wrote: We're talking "Praetorian of Dorn" stuff here - and IMO it is a very skipable book at that...
It's available in trade (as of January?) and not yet in MMPB (not until Feb 2018?).
I'm not sure if "Master of Mankind" is even out in MMPB yet, though it is it trade?
Yes I remembered the wrong title. The point stands though - after BL's shenanigans plenty of folk don't even notice a HH book has come out until months after release, and it's not like we're talking about some trifling detail.
Alpharius wrote: We're talking "Praetorian of Dorn" stuff here - and IMO it is a very skipable book at that...
It's available in trade (as of January?) and not yet in MMPB (not until Feb 2018?).
I'm not sure if "Master of Mankind" is even out in MMPB yet, though it is it trade?
Yes I remembered the wrong title. The point stands though - after BL's shenanigans plenty of folk don't even notice a HH book has come out until months after release, and it's not like we're talking about some trifling detail.
They are still making HH books?!
I gave up on those the second they stopped doing direct MMPB releases and went to the mentioned shenanigans. I somehow think I am probably in the majority on that one.
I received a Facebook update yesterday, advertising the Elysians. A standard ad really, the real news is that the Elysian range appears to be nearly complete again!
A few of the original items are missing, but on the whole it looks complete, including the Tauros Venator and all the infantry models, as far as I can tell.
I'm still waiting for them to make a couple of DKoK sets available again, I guess they're not for sale atm, because the molds have to be remastered, but this news about the Elysians might suggest the Krieg models are coming back soon.
Those terminators are still eye wateringly expensive. £49 for three!
Fun fact, when I was at the open day, there were still mounds of those boxes left over on the sales stand towards the end of the day. Heard more than one bod comment on the price of them...
The terminators are really awesome ... big dudes on 50mm bases ... but they only made three main bodies ... £49 for one set is alright, but when you want both weapon sets you have to pay another £49 but come up with the same main bodies. I also would prefer a pack of 5 all with different heraldry ....
zedmeister wrote: Those terminators are still eye wateringly expensive. £49 for three!
Fun fact, when I was at the open day, there were still mounds of those boxes left over on the sales stand towards the end of the day. Heard more than one bod comment on the price of them...
Whilst they aren't quite Centurion sized, they seem to be basing the price off of those plus a £9 resin tax.
I'm most annoyed that they don't include all the weapon options for that price. I'd want to make some flamer and fist ones, but the flamer aquillons only come with claws and vice versa.
I'm actually okay with the price of the custodes Terminators. They are actually quite a bit larger than a Space Marine terminators. Proportionally, they are to normal custodes what terminators are to space marines.
Gotta say, not feeling the Custodes Terminators at all - and I generally really like the Custodes Aesthetic. They just aren't nearly as appealing as the normal ones.
Forge World Preview
Created as a dedicated assault dropship for the Legio Custodes, the Orion can carry a full task force of the Emperor’s Talons into combat. Protected by frontal armour superior to that of the Legiones Astartes Thunderhawk Gunship, its weapons can swiftly clear a landing zone of hostile infantry and armour with brutal efficiency, allowing the units within to deploy before it soars back into the sky to unleash death upon any foe who dares approach.
You’ll be able to get your hands on the Legio Custodes Orion Assault Dropship soon; in the meantime, you can browse the range of Forge World’s kits here.
Forge World Preview
Created as a dedicated assault dropship for the Legio Custodes, the Orion can carry a full task force of the Emperor’s Talons into combat. Protected by frontal armour superior to that of the Legiones Astartes Thunderhawk Gunship, its weapons can swiftly clear a landing zone of hostile infantry and armour with brutal efficiency, allowing the units within to deploy before it soars back into the sky to unleash death upon any foe who dares approach.
Spoiler:
You’ll be able to get your hands on the Legio Custodes Orion Assault Dropship soon; in the meantime, you can browse the range of Forge World’s kits here.
That new flyer looks like they looted a Devilfish. Seriously, there's so many Tau design elements in that thing.. the back hatch even looks like it came straight from a DF box. If the icons weren't there and the guns were different I would have accepted that as Tau for sure.
It "does" have some earmarks of the 30k hover tank.. but I just don't see it as Imperial looking. Still a nice model though.
MLaw wrote: .. but I just don't see it as Imperial looking.
I get the impression this is the goal of Custodes stuff. It is high-tech advanced stuff befitting of the Custodes.
Yeah, fundamentally this isn’t “imperial” gear this is “inner circle” gear; created for, and on the orders of, people who can demand the best of the best custom fitted to their requirements and expect to get it.
The other thing is (and this was part of what split the Mechanicum) that, fundamentally, the Emperor had all the best toymakers while the Mechanicum had the best industrial designs. Big E kept all the really sweet gear to himself by handing over the plans and blueprints as part of the treaty but not the fundamental understanding to make developing new designs from them feasible. This alternately pissed off, confused, or enthralled different sects of the Mechanicum but also meant that the Custodes and the other Talons had access to gear the Space Marines couldn’t hope to touch.
Peregrine wrote: Am I the only one who doesn't like the new model? It looks like kind of a shapeless blob, and those shoulder pads are just plain stupid.
I love the Praetor, got it from a friend that bought it on open day. I haven't painted him yet, but the sculpt is great, and there were no issues with the casting on mine. Solid detail, nice flowing robes. Very good!
Are those fuel tanks in Septembers WD battle reports Forgeworld models? The red, numbered ones. Unfortunately I do not have a photo at hand, but they are prominently featured in the magazines batreps.
The best way to get FW to make more models in different ranges is to buy more FW models in different ranges.
The downside is that some ranges are really limited; you've got very few Dark Eldar choices and practically speaking there aren't many Tyranids either. As a result the Imperial/SM stuff sells much more strongly which in turn prompts FW to make more of them.
Plus don't forget FW is the boutique end of GW; and is restricted to online sales only and reduced marketing. As a direct result they only corner a smaller percentage of the total market potential anyway.
EmberlordofFire8 wrote: BTW, can I pick up a FW order in a GW store? The swiss customs is ridiculous...
For some reason no.
It's been a no-brainer move to make for years, or even decades. It'd encourage people to make more impulse buys and not only save up for massive 250£ orders (that may or may not ever get sent for in the end), and it would increase traffic to GW stores.
But for some reason they'd never bothered with offering that as a choice.
Honestly I think its because of how FW is managed. FW has no retailer rate, its a flat price direct order from them only. GW stores have to make their own profits so for a GW store manager its no gain for them at all to be able to order FW product because the store won't gain anything from the sale.
I also think its because FW has less production capabilities than GW itself; so FW is likely not geared up to produce on the same scale. So likely would have trouble if they tried to retail through GW stores and thus got more advertising/marketing/market access.
That said its a huge issue for those overseas and yeah then I would at least have had a collect in store feature on the FW website; since (far as I know) FW comes out of the same factory site as GW stock.
I guess it could all just be a legacy issue coupled to FW not making enough return to change the way things are currently run (or GW doesn't get enough emails about it - seriously sometimes you gotta suggest/complain a bit for companies to actually be aware of issues)
People aren't even asking to order FW through stores or have them stock FW though, they just want to have the same option you get on the main GW site - deliver to a GW store with no shipping charge.
That would certainly increase FW sales I think, but not to the stage it would cripple their production line.
Yodhrin wrote: People aren't even asking to order FW through stores or have them stock FW though, they just want to have the same option you get on the main GW site - deliver to a GW store with no shipping charge.
That would certainly increase FW sales I think, but not to the stage it would cripple their production line.
And even if it would, that's a supremely stupid reason to not do it. "Yea, we could do this one thing that would increase our sales (and thus profits) to above what we can currently produce so lets limit our sales instead of increasing our production capabilities"..
If GW is worried FW sales would cannibalize sales in GW stores, that's first of all a rather uncharacteristic concern for their store owners considering the increasing amount of stuff that gets put into Web-only, (presumably to ensure bigger profit margins for GW). The store managers would likely benefit from some impulse buys from the people picking up their FW purchases anyway, which would mitigate, cover or even overtake any loss from cannibalizing. The only reason for me to ever visit a GW store nowadays for example, would be if they had a FW-pickup point.
If they really cared for that cannibalizing issue however, they could just have the store where it's picked up get a small cut of the FW sale.
Yodhrin wrote: People aren't even asking to order FW through stores or have them stock FW though, they just want to have the same option you get on the main GW site - deliver to a GW store with no shipping charge.
That would certainly increase FW sales I think, but not to the stage it would cripple their production line.
And even if it would, that's a supremely stupid reason to not do it. "Yea, we could do this one thing that would increase our sales (and thus profits) to above what we can currently produce so lets limit our sales instead of increasing our production capabilities"..
If GW is worried FW sales would cannibalize sales in GW stores, that's first of all a rather uncharacteristic concern for their store owners considering the increasing amount of stuff that gets put into Web-only, (presumably to ensure bigger profit margins for GW). The store managers would likely benefit from some impulse buys from the people picking up their FW purchases anyway, which would mitigate, cover or even overtake any loss from cannibalizing. The only reason for me to ever visit a GW store nowadays for example, would be if they had a FW-pickup point.
If they really cared for that cannibalizing issue however, they could just have the store where it's picked up get a small cut of the FW sale.
They can't legally sell FW in GW stores without offering FW products to independent retailers. FW simply do not have the production capability to offer thier products to that quantity of retailers. Increasing the production capability is hard because resin casting is manual labour intensive compared to injection moulding.
Regarding the topic at hand though, I like the new sicarian variant and it's rules are pretty cool. Its nice to see a FW model without a face for a change - no painting disasters here!
Yodhrin wrote: People aren't even asking to order FW through stores or have them stock FW though, they just want to have the same option you get on the main GW site - deliver to a GW store with no shipping charge.
That would certainly increase FW sales I think, but not to the stage it would cripple their production line.
And even if it would, that's a supremely stupid reason to not do it. "Yea, we could do this one thing that would increase our sales (and thus profits) to above what we can currently produce so lets limit our sales instead of increasing our production capabilities"..
If GW is worried FW sales would cannibalize sales in GW stores, that's first of all a rather uncharacteristic concern for their store owners considering the increasing amount of stuff that gets put into Web-only, (presumably to ensure bigger profit margins for GW). The store managers would likely benefit from some impulse buys from the people picking up their FW purchases anyway, which would mitigate, cover or even overtake any loss from cannibalizing. The only reason for me to ever visit a GW store nowadays for example, would be if they had a FW-pickup point.
If they really cared for that cannibalizing issue however, they could just have the store where it's picked up get a small cut of the FW sale.
They can't legally sell FW in GW stores without offering FW products to independent retailers. FW simply do not have the production capability to offer thier products to that quantity of retailers. Increasing the production capability is hard because resin casting is manual labour intensive compared to injection moulding.
Regarding the topic at hand though, I like the new sicarian variant and it's rules are pretty cool. Its nice to see a FW model without a face for a change - no painting disasters here!
Didn't the battle bunkers use to stock forge world when they were a thing....
They can't legally sell FW in GW stores without offering FW products to independent retailers. FW simply do not have the production capability to offer thier products to that quantity of retailers. Increasing the production capability is hard because resin casting is manual labour intensive compared to injection moulding.
!
Why do they have to sell to 3rd parties? Lots of retail chains have their own brand products that they only sell at their brand stores and don't sell to 3rd parties. There's no reason that GW can't sell Forgeworld models in their own stores and not to 3rd parties. Sure 3rd party stores might not like it, but GW already restricts a lot of their bigger (esp fantasy) lines to direct ordering only so FW wouldn't be a huge shock for that to happen as well.
Yodhrin wrote: People aren't even asking to order FW through stores or have them stock FW though, they just want to have the same option you get on the main GW site - deliver to a GW store with no shipping charge.
That would certainly increase FW sales I think, but not to the stage it would cripple their production line.
And even if it would, that's a supremely stupid reason to not do it. "Yea, we could do this one thing that would increase our sales (and thus profits) to above what we can currently produce so lets limit our sales instead of increasing our production capabilities"..
If GW is worried FW sales would cannibalize sales in GW stores, that's first of all a rather uncharacteristic concern for their store owners considering the increasing amount of stuff that gets put into Web-only, (presumably to ensure bigger profit margins for GW). The store managers would likely benefit from some impulse buys from the people picking up their FW purchases anyway, which would mitigate, cover or even overtake any loss from cannibalizing. The only reason for me to ever visit a GW store nowadays for example, would be if they had a FW-pickup point.
If they really cared for that cannibalizing issue however, they could just have the store where it's picked up get a small cut of the FW sale.
They can't legally sell FW in GW stores without offering FW products to independent retailers. FW simply do not have the production capability to offer thier products to that quantity of retailers. Increasing the production capability is hard because resin casting is manual labour intensive compared to injection moulding.
Regarding the topic at hand though, I like the new sicarian variant and it's rules are pretty cool. Its nice to see a FW model without a face for a change - no painting disasters here!
Didn't the battle bunkers use to stock forge world when they were a thing....
Stores in the UK briefly stocked the IA books until one day a large independent put an order in for the IA books. GW told them they could not have them, the independent said if your selling them in your stores you legally have to supply me. GW said no we don't but we will humour you and double check. All GW stores were sent returns orders for all FW books shortly after and the independent was told we were right we don't have to supply you as we don't carry stock in store.
Incompetence or hubris in legal matters who would have thunk it.
Not sure on the law outside the UK but there is a strong possibility they could still have the same issue in the UK selling outside the UK and they seemingly did not want to risk it.
But despite that they still would not do it because even with a 90+% margin they still make a hefty profit on the postage from mugs in the UK and vat incorrectly charged from anyone outside the EU.
Also the suggestion was that Forge World offer shipping to a GW store as a "free" shipping option on their normal web sales, not sell directly through GW stores.
This is even less legally ambiguous as pretty much every shipping service now has deals with local retailers to act as drop off points if you want, from Amazon to UPS.
SeanDrake - honestly that sounds more like GW possibly had a contact deal with Independent stores that bound them, at the time, to supply independents with identical stock as their retail stores; rather than it being UK law. There are loads of chain stores that have their own brand stores that sell items not sold outside even though they stock other stores with products
They can't legally sell FW in GW stores without offering FW products to independent retailers. FW simply do not have the production capability to offer thier products to that quantity of retailers. Increasing the production capability is hard because resin casting is manual labour intensive compared to injection moulding.
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Why do they have to sell to 3rd parties? Lots of retail chains have their own brand products that they only sell at their brand stores and don't sell to 3rd parties. There's no reason that GW can't sell Forgeworld models in their own stores and not to 3rd parties. Sure 3rd party stores might not like it, but GW already restricts a lot of their bigger (esp fantasy) lines to direct ordering only so FW wouldn't be a huge shock for that to happen as well.
UK competition law states if your are a manufacture, the distributor and have your own retail stores (which is a pretty rare occurance)
then you cannot supply goods too your own stores that you do not offer to the 3rd parties as that would be an unfair advantage.
They can get round this with the webstore which is classed as a direct sales channel and it is why a lot of GW only kits went on to web only kits.
There is also a grey area where they can make you jump through hoops to get exclusive models and with the FW Ltd editions in store(by the time a 3rd party complains there is no stock left poops our bad)
They can't legally sell FW in GW stores without offering FW products to independent retailers. FW simply do not have the production capability to offer thier products to that quantity of retailers. Increasing the production capability is hard because resin casting is manual labour intensive compared to injection moulding.
!
Why do they have to sell to 3rd parties? Lots of retail chains have their own brand products that they only sell at their brand stores and don't sell to 3rd parties. There's no reason that GW can't sell Forgeworld models in their own stores and not to 3rd parties. Sure 3rd party stores might not like it, but GW already restricts a lot of their bigger (esp fantasy) lines to direct ordering only so FW wouldn't be a huge shock for that to happen as well.
There's some error in your quotes there Overread. I didn't say that. DaemonJellybabyMade did.
As mentioned, it's not about selling through GW stores, and even less keeping FW stuff in stock in them.
However: there seem to be no good reason for GW to not offer for people to order from the FW homepage as normal, and pick those FW orders up in a GW store of their choice. They're likely leaving quite a lot of money on the table since The shipping for the consumer is horrendous unless you either go over the 250£ line or order something like, a single pack of shoulderpads. And as GW already are regularly shipping loads of stuff from more or less the same warehouse in the same city, to every store, it would not incur any extra shipping expenses to speak of.
They can't legally sell FW in GW stores without offering FW products to independent retailers. FW simply do not have the production capability to offer thier products to that quantity of retailers. Increasing the production capability is hard because resin casting is manual labour intensive compared to injection moulding.
!
Why do they have to sell to 3rd parties? Lots of retail chains have their own brand products that they only sell at their brand stores and don't sell to 3rd parties. There's no reason that GW can't sell Forgeworld models in their own stores and not to 3rd parties. Sure 3rd party stores might not like it, but GW already restricts a lot of their bigger (esp fantasy) lines to direct ordering only so FW wouldn't be a huge shock for that to happen as well.
There's some error in your quotes there Overread. I didn't say that. DaemonJellybabyMade did.
As mentioned, it's not about selling through GW stores, and even less keeping FW stuff in stock in them.
However: there seem to be no good reason for GW to not offer for people to order from the FW homepage as normal, and pick those FW orders up in a GW store of their choice. They're likely leaving quite a lot of money on the table since The shipping for the consumer is horrendous unless you either go over the 250£ line or order something like, a single pack of shoulderpads. And as GW already are regularly shipping loads of stuff from more or less the same warehouse in the same city, to every store, it would not incur any extra shipping expenses to speak of.
I can give you 2 good reasons from there point of view.
1. If not making an out right profit on the 15% flat postage then at the very least UK and EU customers are subsidizing the RoW customers postage.
2. Gw charge 20% VAT regardless of whether it is due or not and I strongly suspect they don't over pay there VAT bill if you get what I am saying.(Not that I think there outright doing anything illegal but GW's dark lord was an account with the Inland Revenue, so as well as never being invited to parties he knows his way round a loop hole)
Actually I'm pretty sure that if the sale occurs within the EU then VAT should be charged, if the purchaser is a non-EU resident, the onus is on them to apply for a refund.
If the purchaser doesn't, then that isn't GW's fault, neither do they get to keep the VAT they charged, that goes to HMRC, who would then be the ones who issued the refund.
About the only way to "keep" VAT is on cash sales, which FW will handle very little of, and even then if you were to attract the attentions of HMRC they could very quickly spot any significant disparities between inventory and sales.
Formosa wrote: A tank destroyer that sucks at killing tanks? well done FW, well done.
Yeah ontop of it being terrible at its intended role this new sicaran proves yet again they dont understand power levels at all. 16 power level equates to roughly 320 points, but this is 170 points-220 pts? By their own printed explanation the power level should be 9-10. I really don't understand these vehicles they keep pumping out with weapons that fail in such epic ways. At this rate FW will just be banned in match play and unusable in narrative play due to wildly inconsistent design rules between them and GW.
I can give you 2 good reasons from there point of view.
1. If not making an out right profit on the 15% flat postage then at the very least UK and EU customers are subsidizing the RoW customers postage.
2. Gw charge 20% VAT regardless of whether it is due or not and I strongly suspect they don't over pay there VAT bill if you get what I am saying.(Not that I think there outright doing anything illegal but GW's dark lord was an account with the Inland Revenue, so as well as never being invited to parties he knows his way round a loop hole)
1 does make some sense at first clance, but ultimately not. The weird 10-15% shipping costs does come to more than what shipping reasonably cost for the company to send out the stuff so that's money gained.
However, there's a reason why no other company in the world that I'm aware of charge shipping that way.
If people would buy the same amount regardless, then some extra garnishing by overcharging shipping is a nice little bonus. But people does not.
Almost every seller of consumer goods charge either a flat rate or charge in weight bands. FW's shipping discourages adding more stuff unless it's to reach 250£. So they'll get some extra sales there, but there'll be a lot of lost sales from people that are not prepared to buy that much in one go. The consumer saves the money thinking they'll do a big order later or find someone to co-order with. Then life gets in the way and those funds get spent on something else. (like miniatures from a company with a shipping scheme that encourages impulse buys). Never encourage your customers to buy stuff later rather than right now. A sale delayed is often a sale lost.
As for 2. I fail to see how shipping to someones door or shipping it to a GW store near said door and having a customer pick it up there would make any difference as regards VAT payments or taxes.
The Ta'unar with its Heavy Rail Cannon Array meant for taking down titan's and tanks is statistically inferior against both targets. The pulse ordinance array and the anti-horde giant missile. The pulse is once again the best gun. It's better than any other option at all targets.
Now the real kicker? the heavy rail cannon array is 5 points more expensive than the default gun lol. -_- Even the Ta'unar was way too over nered this edition just like everything else Tau and it will lose in a fight against any other super heavy in the game. It even dies easy to grav spam.
The only good FW units now is the Tigershark and Y'vahrah. All the other are so bad they are worse than our already crappy codex units and even more expensive. Someone had a massive hate boner for Tau going into 8th for sure. Absolute trashed.
On the one hand, I hope the prerequisite 40k codices (Tau, perhaps guard) get done in short order so that FoC comes out soon. I waited along time for Inferno, so I feel for those who have FoC as a higher priority than I do.
On the other hand, it's not a huge personal priority for me, as I still have a few armies ahead of Ryza in the queue to be painted, so I can wait a bit to get the FW goodies for the army.
On the gripping hand, I'm tired of eternal complaints that get a fresh outpouring of keyboard bashing every week that something NOT FoC comes out.
*This post formatted with wistful sadness. RIP, Jerry Pournelle.
I for one am holding out hope that FoC will involve somegow finding Dorn in Stasis (opening him for use in 40k, because you KNOW Dorn is gonna be the one loyalist they never port to plastic cor... Reasons?) AND the triumphant entrance of hoise Vyronii tonsave the day.
Maybe Dorn can ride on the back of one of the knights like the rodeo star he was born to be.
Exciting Blood Bowl preview from Forgeworld – Pro Elves are on the horizon. Really love the aesthetic of these; a dynamic update of classic 1st/2nd ed. Blood Bowl elves.
The Nurgle Daemon Prince and Herald had been out of stock/unavailable/gone from the website for about a year, cause I was going to paint one for someone as a Xmas gift last year. When I emailed them about it, they said the mold broke and they had no timeline on repairing/replacing it.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Do you want them to release the bodies and arms separately?
I wouldn't mind, but I also think 6 arms in the pack or a Tartaros armour style modular lightning claw attachment wouldn't hurt their overhead all that much.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Do you want them to release the bodies and arms separately?
I wouldn't mind, but I also think 6 arms in the pack or a Tartaros armour style modular lightning claw attachment wouldn't hurt their overhead all that much.
That's a big 'Be Careful What You Wish For' there!
H.B.M.C. wrote: Do you want them to release the bodies and arms separately?
I wouldn't mind, but I also think 6 arms in the pack or a Tartaros armour style modular lightning claw attachment wouldn't hurt their overhead all that much.
That's a big 'Be Careful What You Wish For' there!
I think the point that H.B.M.C was trying to make - and that I am definitely making - is that it is almost a certainty that a lot of things would end up a lot more expensive that way...
Alpharius wrote: I think the point that H.B.M.C was trying to make - and that I am definitely making - is that it is almost a certainty that a lot of things would end up a lot more expensive that way...
Well, that's not really particularly valid, the Aquillon kits come with the same bodies, only the arms are changed.
They're already more than overpriced enough by games workshop price bracketing for forge world resin kits, even including all 5 weapon arm options would fall within their general practices just fine.
No preview today? They could always post about something they'll never actually release... like House Vyronii transfers! We're coming up on the two-year anniversary of them showing off the finished product, in November if I recall correctly.
Erren wrote: No preview today? They could always post about something they'll never actually release... like House Vyronii transfers! We're coming up on the two-year anniversary of them showing off the finished product, in November if I recall correctly.
Ouch. Also, October 17 marks two years, I believe (see my sig, because I'm that salty).
Erren wrote: No preview today? They could always post about something they'll never actually release... like House Vyronii transfers! We're coming up on the two-year anniversary of them showing off the finished product, in November if I recall correctly.
Ouch. Also, October 17 marks two years, I believe (see my sig, because I'm that salty).
Glad to see the Arvus returned to service. Lovely model that's always had naff rules... until it went out of stock just as 8th hit and FW gave it some really good rules!
The goldmarine flyer is definitely not to my taste.
No real news? No real news? An important DKoK kit returning is awesome news, even if it doesn't involve space marines.
ATTENTION IMPERIAL CITIZEN!
YOUR POTENTIALLY HERETICAL BEHAVIOUR HAS BEEN NOTICED. SPACE MARINES ARE THE ONLY NEWS YOU SHOULD BE INTERESTED IN. PLEASE PRESENT YOURSELF TO YOUR LOCAL COMMISSAR.
-Imperial Servitor 5544.666.8981_
zamerion wrote: strictly the unit is not new .. only relaunch.
A re-launch of a missing DKoK kit that a lot of people have been hoping for is more newsworthy than yet another set of space marine shoulder pads, which is probably what you'd be getting this week instead if you demand something new.
zamerion wrote: strictly the unit is not new .. only relaunch.
A re-launch of a missing DKoK kit that a lot of people have been hoping for is more newsworthy than yet another set of space marine shoulder pads, which is probably what you'd be getting this week instead if you demand something new.
please show us where the space marines touched you..
Nobody here is saying that want more marines, or that this stuff isnt good. But I d prefer to see other things that are really NEW and not only a RELAUNCH.
There are more stuff outside marines comming.. khorne dragon,some stuff for AoS, maybe surprise star player for BB..
If you was dreaming with this unit, congratulations!! today is your day!
Rolsheen wrote: By order of the Emperor the Gorgon Heavy Transport has been erased from Imperial records.
It's been gone for a while and I believe the moulds have worn out. Probably due to the fact that it is listed as a dedicated transport for the militia and cults 30k army list. Hopefully a re-release will happen in the near future
Pretty much anything is better than yet another unit of mediocre Space Marines and Space Marine accessories. I’m very glad that this unit rereleased, and I may even buy it at some point.
Grenadiers are seconded....need my Death Korps Stormtroopers. That earth shaker carriage battery is a nice bundle though...I need to see if you save any money with it.
I am glad to see discontinued things return. I hope the Aquila lander follows the Arvus, as they are both rare examples of largely civilian vehicles, very thematic. I may have to save up for the Arvus.
I also hope this extends to some of the old IG stuff, like the tank variants which have dissapeared.
hobojebus wrote: Getting annoyed at how unsupported wolves are its taking the pee.
Equally well supported as any other Legion. In fact, they're amongst the top three Legions in terms of releases – see?
Spoiler:
+++
I'm very pleased to see some older stuff returning – I've ordered myself an Arvus Lighter after kicking myself for procrastinating years ago. Perhaps we'll see Kroot knarlocs return? *dreams*
hobojebus wrote: Getting annoyed at how unsupported wolves are its taking the pee.
Equally well supported as any other Legion. In fact, they're amongst the top three Legions in terms of releases – see?
Spoiler:
+++
I'm very pleased to see some older stuff returning – I've ordered myself an Arvus Lighter after kicking myself for procrastinating years ago. Perhaps we'll see Kroot knarlocs return? *dreams*
I'm not going to go through every accessory to find out which ones Space Wolves have that others don't to make them in the top 4, but when you actually check as far as HH releases are concerned by my count they have a Primarch with his wolves, a contemptor, 5 chest plates and an array of shoulder pads. I think most SW players were hoping for a unique unit, another character, maybe some more accessories beyond the chest plates.
Some of the other chapters with less entries to their name have more characters and unique units. You could cry over Salamanders only having 140 entries but they actually have 2 unique units in addition to their chest plates, shoulder pads, contemptor and Primarch models.
hobojebus wrote: Getting annoyed at how unsupported wolves are its taking the pee.
Equally well supported as any other Legion. In fact, they're amongst the top three Legions in terms of releases – see?
Spoiler:
+++
I'm very pleased to see some older stuff returning – I've ordered myself an Arvus Lighter after kicking myself for procrastinating years ago. Perhaps we'll see Kroot knarlocs return? *dreams*
I'm not going to go through every accessory to find out which ones Space Wolves have that others don't to make them in the top 4, but when you actually check as far as HH releases are concerned by my count they have a Primarch with his wolves, a contemptor, 5 chest plates and an array of shoulder pads. I think most SW players were hoping for a unique unit, another character, maybe some more accessories beyond the chest plates.
Some of the other chapters with less entries to their name have more characters and unique units. You could cry over Salamanders only having 140 entries but they actually have 2 unique units in addition to their chest plates, shoulder pads, contemptor and Primarch models.
The Wolves stuff is coming. At the last event they said some is finished and some is wip, from what I remember. There’s 3 kits for the Grey Slayers with different wargear in the pipeline, and kits for the Varangyr and the... other guys.
He's the guy that issues gear, its just that Krieg QM's get their kit from dead Kriegers rather than storages of gear. Since they're always rummaging around the wounded and dying, they're also used as medic and mercy killers.
BrookM wrote: I wonder how long it'll take Forge World to crank out their own regimental rules for the Death Korps of Krieg and the Elysian Drop Troops.
Hopefully soon. In the meanwhile I am in the minority opinion that DKOK and Elysians and Renegades & Heretics can pick whatever Doctrine they want from the Astra Militarum book.
The FW employee who is resposible for these new DKoK casts, specifically the at-ease guys, is saying on FB that he went and found all the original parts, re-moulded and cast them, and actually this version of the kit is better and more correct than the original one. Very cool.
Mymearan wrote: The FW employee who is resposible for these new DKoK casts, specifically the at-ease guys, is saying on FB that he went and found all the original parts, re-moulded and cast them, and actually this version of the kit is better and more correct than the original one. Very cool.
Did it say who the person was? Bloke's a moulding hero and I take my hat off to him!
For a second, I thought it was also with a Leman Russ Conqueror, and got excited. Then I realised it was the Ryza pattern Demolisher, which I don't think ever went OOP :(
I really hope so, they were some of the coolest models in the entire DKoK range. Also, I really think Heavy stubbers need to become a generic special weapon option for all Guard, they open up so many cool modelling opportunities. Currently is just Grenadiers with access to them for loyalists as far as I can tell.
I really wanted the Grenadiers but I wonder if GW purged them along with the Kasrkin because Scions are the standard Stormtroopers now? I don't know if that thinking would inform how FW operate though. Or if its even true. The only thing that confuses me is that they still have the heavy weapon Grendiers up. They had Stormtroopers listed as 'Temporarily OOS' for a long time then they disappeared. Was it ever confirmed anywhere what happened? Maybe they were trying to cast more but the moulds broke down? I dunno. Would be great to have them back. DKoK are great and Grenadiers are the cherries ontop.
As to the new Kriegers, so these are new casts? I just ask because I had quite a few issues with other Krieg infantry sets (like lot's of FW stuff) being full of blurry, messy details and poor casts. Would these likely be higher-quality? If so, that changes things for me...
Oppl wrote: I really wanted the Grenadiers but I wonder if GW purged them along with the Kasrkin because Scions are the standard Stormtroopers now? I don't know if that thinking would inform how FW operate though. Or if its even true. The only thing that confuses me is that they still have the heavy weapon Grendiers up. They had Stormtroopers listed as 'Temporarily OOS' for a long time then they disappeared. Was it ever confirmed anywhere what happened? Maybe they were trying to cast more but the moulds broke down? I dunno. Would be great to have them back. DKoK are great and Grenadiers are the cherries ontop.
I think the whole point of Grenadiers as a concept (and this actually includes the Kasrkin from a fluff perspective) is that they are Imperial Guard troops trained and equipped to a level equivalent, or close, to Scions. So Grenadiers still fit into the fluff just fine, especially as they come from a world so utterly dedicated to producing Guard regiments as Krieg.
Yeah that's fair. I know Kasrkin/Grenadiers aren't Scions and Scions aren't Kasrkin/Grenadiers in fluff-terms, though the training and weaponry is mostly the same. I just meant from a rules perspective since Kasrkin haven't had specific rules its probably why GW canned them and just said 'use Scions instead' as they fulfill the same role.
I totally forgot Grenadiers would have their own rules, so if anything it would make more sense for them to come back at some point. Cheers for clearing that all up. Here's hoping FW continue the DKoK refresher and get the Grenadiers up at some point now that they've got these releases announced.
Sorry to derail the thread a little bit there, people...
Mymearan wrote: The FW employee who is resposible for these new DKoK casts, specifically the at-ease guys, is saying on FB that he went and found all the original parts, re-moulded and cast them, and actually this version of the kit is better and more correct than the original one. Very cool.
Nice, but I wish FW put as much effort into the Elysian range as they have for version 3 of the basic DKoK infantry squad. DK have more exclusive commissars than Elysians have actual characters.
Bobthehero wrote: He's the guy that issues gear, its just that Krieg QM's get their kit from dead Kriegers rather than storages of gear. Since they're always rummaging around the wounded and dying, they're also used as medic and mercy killers.
Not very useful unless you didn't want to take big platoons. I mean, Stormies weren't good in the first place (Veterans were pretty much always better), so why would you want them without Infiltrate/Deep Strike?
rtb02 wrote: The krieg stuff looks great but doesn't deserve a release slot. Where's my tiger shark?!?! If they do more krieg next week I ain't going to be happy.
Unless it's them re-releasing grenadiers, in which case I will thank you for your patience!
Davespil wrote: Does GW/FW not know what a quartermaster is?
What do you think a Quartermaster is?
In the modern Royal Navy, a Quartermaster is the person who, at sea, steers the ship but in harbour it's the title for the person who guards the gangway.
In the British Army, it's the person who controls stores.
In the grim darkness of the far future, as far as the Death Korps are concerned, it's the person who dispatches the soon to be dead and gathers their gear to supply the next human wave.
Davespil wrote: Does GW/FW not know what a quartermaster is?
What do you think a Quartermaster is?
In the modern Royal Navy, a Quartermaster is the person who, at sea, steers the ship but in harbour it's the title for the person who guards the gangway.
In the British Army, it's the person who controls stores.
In the grim darkness of the far future, as far as the Death Korps are concerned, it's the person who dispatches the soon to be dead and gathers their gear to supply the next human wave.
Not a guy that walks around the battlefield healing or killing wounded soldiers. That's what a medical corps is for. And why would he be walking around an active battlefield scrounging for a few extra rifles or grenades? Soldiers do that after the battle. He belongs in the supply tent at the rear issuing gear and making sure command got that shipment of socks in.
Davespil wrote: Does GW/FW not know what a quartermaster is?
What do you think a Quartermaster is?
In the modern Royal Navy, a Quartermaster is the person who, at sea, steers the ship but in harbour it's the title for the person who guards the gangway.
In the British Army, it's the person who controls stores.
In the grim darkness of the far future, as far as the Death Korps are concerned, it's the person who dispatches the soon to be dead and gathers their gear to supply the next human wave.
Not a guy that walks around the battlefield healing or killing wounded soldiers. That's what a medical corps is for. And why would he be walking around an active battlefield scrounging for a few extra rifles or grenades? Soldiers do that after the battle. He belongs in the supply tent at the rear issuing gear and making sure command got that shipment of socks in.
Are you actually questioning the usage of quartermaster in a universe like this?
He also serves as a medic if you aren’t grievously wounded, and issues new equipment to soldiers with torn masks or something like that so they can get back into the fight quickly.
Davespil wrote: Does GW/FW not know what a quartermaster is?
What do you think a Quartermaster is?
In the modern Royal Navy, a Quartermaster is the person who, at sea, steers the ship but in harbour it's the title for the person who guards the gangway.
In the British Army, it's the person who controls stores.
In the grim darkness of the far future, as far as the Death Korps are concerned, it's the person who dispatches the soon to be dead and gathers their gear to supply the next human wave.
Not a guy that walks around the battlefield healing or killing wounded soldiers. That's what a medical corps is for. And why would he be walking around an active battlefield scrounging for a few extra rifles or grenades? Soldiers do that after the battle. He belongs in the supply tent at the rear issuing gear and making sure command got that shipment of socks in.
Well, in a completely fictional universe 38 000 years from now, a QM is something completely different from what you consider a 21st Century QM is.
Its also a specific Death Korps thing. They have a way higher supply of soldiers than anything else, so getting them equipment is extremely important. To the point that the quartermaster goes onto an active battlefield to scrounge gear. Human lives are worthless to them. Thats what the´soldiers of Krieg are known for.
Keep in mind, this is 40k: When in doubt, make it grimdarker.
Tyr13 wrote: Its also a specific Death Korps thing. They have a way higher supply of soldiers than anything else, so getting them equipment is extremely important. To the point that the quartermaster goes onto an active battlefield to scrounge gear. Human lives are worthless to them. Thats what the´soldiers of Krieg are known for.
Keep in mind, this is 40k: When in doubt, make it grimdarker.
Yes yes. Remember: Kriegers do not have names; they have batch numbers. They never take off their gas masks or other gear while on deployment (that’s the Quartermaster's job post mortem, or as close as practicable) and no-one has any idea how they tell each other apart.
Tyr13 wrote: Its also a specific Death Korps thing. They have a way higher supply of soldiers than anything else, so getting them equipment is extremely important. To the point that the quartermaster goes onto an active battlefield to scrounge gear. Human lives are worthless to them. Thats what the´soldiers of Krieg are known for.
Keep in mind, this is 40k: When in doubt, make it grimdarker.
Yes yes. Remember: Kriegers do not have names; they have batch numbers. They never take off their gas masks or other gear while on deployment (that’s the Quartermaster's job post mortem, or as close as practicable) and no-one has any idea how they tell each other apart.
I’m fairly sure that quartermasters issue battlefield replacements (and medical aid if you can get back in the fight immediately) so they’d have to take off their stuff for that.
Davespil wrote: Does GW/FW not know what a quartermaster is?
What do you think a Quartermaster is?
In the modern Royal Navy, a Quartermaster is the person who, at sea, steers the ship but in harbour it's the title for the person who guards the gangway.
In the British Army, it's the person who controls stores.
In the grim darkness of the far future, as far as the Death Korps are concerned, it's the person who dispatches the soon to be dead and gathers their gear to supply the next human wave.
Not a guy that walks around the battlefield healing or killing wounded soldiers. That's what a medical corps is for. And why would he be walking around an active battlefield scrounging for a few extra rifles or grenades? Soldiers do that after the battle. He belongs in the supply tent at the rear issuing gear and making sure command got that shipment of socks in.
Well, in a completely fictional universe 38 000 years from now, a QM is something completely different from what you consider a 21st Century QM is.
Sure, and tanks mean boats and Calvary means jets. I honestly believe that GW/FW have no idea what a quarter master is. Hence this unit. If a guy needs a new gas mask he'll just pick one up from a dead guy himself. He doesn't need a battlefield scrounger/medic/Dr Kevorkian to get him one.
Look at it this way, their equipment is much higher quality than other Guard regiments, and more highly regarded than the people themselves. So the quartermaster goes out to save as much gear as possible to distribute back to the new troops, before it gets too ruined in the battle. He has medical servitors following him around to help anyone who is still worth keeping alive, or he puts down those who can't be saved to save the equipment, because Death Korps don't care about life, they see death as a good thing; as serving the emperor.
Davespil wrote: Does GW/FW not know what a quartermaster is?
What do you think a Quartermaster is?
In the modern Royal Navy, a Quartermaster is the person who, at sea, steers the ship but in harbour it's the title for the person who guards the gangway.
In the British Army, it's the person who controls stores.
In the grim darkness of the far future, as far as the Death Korps are concerned, it's the person who dispatches the soon to be dead and gathers their gear to supply the next human wave.
Not a guy that walks around the battlefield healing or killing wounded soldiers. That's what a medical corps is for. And why would he be walking around an active battlefield scrounging for a few extra rifles or grenades? Soldiers do that after the battle. He belongs in the supply tent at the rear issuing gear and making sure command got that shipment of socks in.
Well, in a completely fictional universe 38 000 years from now, a QM is something completely different from what you consider a 21st Century QM is.
Sure, and tanks mean boats and Calvary means jets. I honestly believe that GW/FW have no idea what a quarter master is. Hence this unit. If a guy needs a new gas mask he'll just pick one up from a dead guy himself. He doesn't need a battlefield scrounger/medic/Dr Kevorkian to get him one.
Quartermaster means different things now, depending on the country or service, let alone on a completely different planet thousands of years from now. Plus it’s a suitably grimdark twist on what a Quartermaster that you mean is for the DKoK.
Davespil wrote: Does GW/FW not know what a quartermaster is?
What do you think a Quartermaster is?
In the modern Royal Navy, a Quartermaster is the person who, at sea, steers the ship but in harbour it's the title for the person who guards the gangway.
In the British Army, it's the person who controls stores.
In the grim darkness of the far future, as far as the Death Korps are concerned, it's the person who dispatches the soon to be dead and gathers their gear to supply the next human wave.
Not a guy that walks around the battlefield healing or killing wounded soldiers. That's what a medical corps is for. And why would he be walking around an active battlefield scrounging for a few extra rifles or grenades? Soldiers do that after the battle. He belongs in the supply tent at the rear issuing gear and making sure command got that shipment of socks in.
Well, in a completely fictional universe 38 000 years from now, a QM is something completely different from what you consider a 21st Century QM is.
Sure, and tanks mean boats and Calvary means jets. I honestly believe that GW/FW have no idea what a quarter master is. Hence this unit. If a guy needs a new gas mask he'll just pick one up from a dead guy himself. He doesn't need a battlefield scrounger/medic/Dr Kevorkian to get him one.
Notable enemies not faced in real life are banter loving, 7ft tall 400kg walking, fighting, shooting fungus. Chill out on your need for correct terminology, it’s a different setting to real life, the writers can do whatever they want and that includes assigning labels.
The fact that the Krieg Quartermaster is actually a guy who goes around reclaiming equipment from dead/dying soldiers is part of the theme of the Kriegers.
It's ages since I last read it but isn't the Quartermaster in Monstrous Regiment (Diskworld) also stealing from the dead on battlefields.
In fact the idea of a quartermaster taking things from the fallen is not so daft. It's been used many times before in fantasy settings and even in reality if you've got a whole army of dead people with good equipment you are not just doing to let that rot for the crows and the looters.
That the Deadkrieg Quartermaster makes it a point to be on the battlefield looting is a neat twist; but not an abomination. Remember titles are just titles and the actual role a title performs can vary very significantly from army to army let alone age to age.
Don't forget armies in 40K fight much closer to WW1/2 style of battles - ranks and regiments and gunlines - than we do in modern warfare today.
Overread wrote: It's ages since I last read it but isn't the Quartermaster in Monstrous Regiment (Diskworld) also stealing from the dead on battlefields.
In fact the idea of a quartermaster taking things from the fallen is not so daft. It's been used many times before in fantasy settings and even in reality if you've got a whole army of dead people with good equipment you are not just doing to let that rot for the crows and the looters.
That the Deadkrieg Quartermaster makes it a point to be on the battlefield looting is a neat twist; but not an abomination. Remember titles are just titles and the actual role a title performs can vary very significantly from army to army let alone age to age.
Don't forget armies in 40K fight much closer to WW1/2 style of battles - ranks and regiments and gunlines - than we do in modern warfare today.
It was not until modern times that metal became cheap to produce, and guns having interchangeable parts. Collecting the weapons and armour of the dead from both sides after a battle was common. Even farmers and locals would take what metal they could and reforge it to use as tools and such.
I don't know how much that practice continued into the 1st world war tho, I understood that armies became more standardized in their equipment, slowly the less useful taking the other guy's stuff was.
In the logic of Warhammer 40k, Imperial Guard Wargear is kinda stupid durable, and can keep being reused over and over again for hundreds of years with proper maintenance. So stripping the dead of their wargear makes alot of sense.
(To put that in perspective, think about how many weapons, tanks, ect from the 1st world war that can still function at this point?
(To put that in perspective, think about how many weapons, tanks, ect from the 1st world war that can still function at this point?
If they've been maintained properly, or at least stored properly and then cleaned up from the preserving greases and such, quite a few. The ones that don't function were pretty much the ones left to rot and rust. Even those can sometimes yield useful parts and components (moreso with those issued since about the mid 19th century, when parts interchangeability became the standard for most standing armies).
Why are we still talking about whether FW knows what quartermasters are? I'm almost certain they know, I'd be surprised if FW didn't have at least a few military historians in their ranks. They just put a grimdark spin on the role.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Why are we still talking about whether FW knows what quartermasters are? I'm almost certain they know, I'd be surprised if FW didn't have at least a few military historians in their ranks. They just put a grimdark spin on the role.
Davespil wrote: Does GW/FW not know what a quartermaster is?
What do you think a Quartermaster is?
In the modern Royal Navy, a Quartermaster is the person who, at sea, steers the ship but in harbour it's the title for the person who guards the gangway.
In the British Army, it's the person who controls stores.
In the grim darkness of the far future, as far as the Death Korps are concerned, it's the person who dispatches the soon to be dead and gathers their gear to supply the next human wave.
Not a guy that walks around the battlefield healing or killing wounded soldiers. That's what a medical corps is for. And why would he be walking around an active battlefield scrounging for a few extra rifles or grenades? Soldiers do that after the battle. He belongs in the supply tent at the rear issuing gear and making sure command got that shipment of socks in.
Well, in a completely fictional universe 38 000 years from now, a QM is something completely different from what you consider a 21st Century QM is.
Sure, and tanks mean boats and Calvary means jets. I honestly believe that GW/FW have no idea what a quarter master is. Hence this unit. If a guy needs a new gas mask he'll just pick one up from a dead guy himself. He doesn't need a battlefield scrounger/medic/Dr Kevorkian to get him one.
Quartermaster means different things now, depending on the country or service, let alone on a completely different planet thousands of years from now. Plus it’s a suitably grimdark twist on what a Quartermaster that you mean is for the DKoK.
None of them mean medic. They have medics for that. Grim dark is a guy with a special rank and billet running around shooting soldiers so he can take their boots on an active battlefield? Don't blame grimdark for this silliness, blame terrible writing.
Bobthehero wrote: The QM is not the medic, the medical servitors are
This is correct.
Also how are Krieg Quartermasters any less bonkers than Space Marine Librarians, Apothecaries and Chaplains? How did 'apothecary' even come to mean 'field surgeon', when it's just a historical term for a 'pharmacist'? And to top it of, the recent Death Guard release introduces what appears to be an accountant? A Nurgle field accountant, maybe?
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Why are we still talking about whether FW knows what quartermasters are? I'm almost certain they know, I'd be surprised if FW didn't have at least a few military historians in their ranks. They just put a grimdark spin on the role.
Especially as there's this new weapon to talk about:
Bobthehero wrote: The QM is not the medic, the medical servitors are
This is correct.
Also how are Krieg Quartermasters any less bonkers than Space Marine Librarians, Apothecaries and Chaplains? How did 'apothecary' even come to mean 'field surgeon', when it's just a historical term for a 'pharmacist'? And to top it of, the recent Death Guard release introduces what appears to be an accountant? A Nurgle field accountant, maybe?
Appthecaries created and dispensed medicine to patients, so a precursor to a doctor. They werent pharmacists, they were replaced by pharmacists. I don't know why HE used apothecary and not surgeon or doctor. So, not that much of a stretch. Chaplains were religious leaders and in many armies they took battlefield roles to help morale. Librarians are pretty much an extension of the Quartermaster silliness. A supply guy that wanders around the battlefield killing people because his robot says they're doomed and taking their gear. I have no words for the tallyman except... Chaos.
Bobthehero wrote: The QM is not the medic, the medical servitors are
This is correct.
Also how are Krieg Quartermasters any less bonkers than Space Marine Librarians, Apothecaries and Chaplains? How did 'apothecary' even come to mean 'field surgeon', when it's just a historical term for a 'pharmacist'? And to top it of, the recent Death Guard release introduces what appears to be an accountant? A Nurgle field accountant, maybe?
Appthecaries created and dispensed medicine to patients, so a precursor to a doctor. They werent pharmacists, they were replaced by pharmacists. I don't know why HE used apothecary and not surgeon or doctor. So, not that much of a stretch. Chaplains were religious leaders and in many armies they took battlefield roles to help morale. Librarians are pretty much an extension of the Quartermaster silliness. A supply guy that wanders around the battlefield killing people because his robot says they're doomed and taking their gear. I have no words for the tallyman except... Chaos.
Pharmacists also dispense medicines to patients, they just don't create them now. Other medieval roles were the precursors to doctors and surgeons, apothecaries were just part of that network. Medieval medicine could be surprisingly sophisticated.
I don't see what this discussion has to do with FW news and rumours. The Quartermaster model has existed for years, so it is neither news nor rumours. Perhaps make a thread in General or Off Topic if you want to discuss the validity and absurdity of GW's naming and chosen battlefield roles.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: I don't see what this discussion has to do with FW news and rumours. The Quartermaster model has existed for years, so it is neither news nor rumours. Perhaps make a thread in General or Off Topic if you want to discuss the validity and absurdity of GW's naming and chosen battlefield roles.
As this one has wandered off track for long enough now, yes, please do that...
Equally well supported as any other Legion. In fact, they're amongst the top three Legions in terms of releases – see?
