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GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/06 19:39:53


Post by: Kroothawk


Hi,
someone else may do the rumour summary, here is just a current batch of new ones posted by Marshal Augustine over at Warseer (who I don't know).
As for rumour credibility. I have always been on the sidelines. I keep up to date and up to snuff and get my hands on things rather quickly sources are a need to know basis . I did a lot about the DE book when it came about and many previous marine books. As well as 5th edition... when that was in the works.

Other than that what can I say?

Special Characters:
Lord "Draigo" LR cost.
Grand Master "Mordrack" Storm Raven Cost
Brother Captain Stern
Castellan Crowe

HQ/
Grand Master
Brother Captain
Brotherhood Champion
Librarian
Inquisitor Corteaz
Inquisitor Karamazov
Inquisitor Valeria
Ordo Malleus Inquisitor
Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor
Ordo Xenos Inquisitor

Elites/
Techmarine
Purifier Squad
Venerable Dreadnought
Paladin Squad
Callidus
Eversor
Vindicare
Culexus
Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband

Troops/
Grey Knight Terminator Squad
Special Upgrade Character - Justicar Thawn
Grey Knights Strike Squad (the regular GK's)

Transports:
Rhino
Razorback
Chimera

Fast/
StormRaven

Heavy Support/
Purgation Squad
Dreadnought
Nemesis Dreadknight (MC)
Land Raider (and variants, including redeemer)

Grand Master rumoured to pick D3 units during deployment and giving them a special rule:
Makes them scoring (kinda neat for dread and or elite paladins)
Makes them re roll 1s to wound all game
Makes them have counter attack USR.
Makes them Scout
All these units are affected by the one choice.

Terminators equipped with frag and krack grenades.

No drop pod. But GK strike squads are supposed to be able to take personal teleporters. This makes them jump infantry. And once per game it is rumored to allow them to make a 30" move, just move... not a on table deep strike. they Can shoot when they do this, but not charge.

Wargear that has been listed that rules are unknown:

Psyke-out grenades.
Brotherhood Banner (terminator and paladin squads)

Paladins = 2 wounded terminators (they can have an apothecary in the squad)

Purifiers = Grey Knights that have a lot of anti horde options, they are the ones with the power that will do a wound on every engaged enemy model in cc on 4+.

Grand Master rumoured to pick D3 units during deployment and giving them a special rule:
Makes them scoring (kinda neat for dread and or elite paladins)
Makes them re roll 1s to wound all game
Makes them have counter attack USR.
Makes them Scout
All these units are affected by the one choice.

Terminators equipped with frag and krack grenades.

(On the question of Ordo Xenos and Ordo Hereticus Inquisitors
Yes. they each have different wargear options, full of character if you ask me.


GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/06 20:22:16


Post by: Flashman


All branches of the Inquisition represented... interesting


GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/06 20:46:12


Post by: Brother SRM


I doubt the Ordos Hereticus/Xeno inquisitors unless there's some mechanic for Deathwatch Marines in the book.


GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/06 20:46:17


Post by: bhsman


I wonder if Psyk-Out grenades will count as both Frag and Krak; it would explain why the Terminators are able to use them.


GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/06 20:46:50


Post by: TBD


Special Characters:
Lord "Draigo" LR cost.
Grand Master "Mordrack" Storm Raven Cost
Brother Captain Stern
Castellan Crowe

HQ/
Inquisitor Corteaz
Inquisitor Karamazov
Inquisitor Valeria

The difference between these is that the former are upgrades to units, and the latter are individual HQ choises, right?

If so, I wonder how exactly they will work and which units they are upgrades to. Stern should be a Grey Knight Terminator upgrade, but the others? Crowe an upgrade to a "normal" Grey Knights squad maybe, and Mordrack perhaps as an upgrade to the Paladins. Not sure where the lord would go, but it sounds like it could be an inquisitor.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Brother SRM wrote:I doubt the Ordos Hereticus/Xeno inquisitors unless there's some mechanic for Deathwatch Marines in the book.


It would be great if Deathwatch Marines are somehow listed as henchman options, but most likely they are not in the book.


GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/06 20:49:28


Post by: bhsman


I want to say that the first group of names are 'new' characters, though I don't believe there's any previous fluff for an Inquisitor Valeria.


GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/06 20:52:45


Post by: Empchild


Interesting,,, a Librarian. Being that in the former fluff all GK's had some Phsycic abilities this is a bit of a change.


GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/06 21:18:32


Post by: Powerguy


There is plenty of interesting and cool stuff there (taken with an appropriate amount of salt of course) but I have yet to see anything which is going to give Grey Knights the anti mech options they desperately need to bring them up to 5th edition standards. Nothing has suggested they are getting meltaguns or something similar to replace them, and there aren't any obvious long ranged anti tank options either (unless Purgation Squads morph in to proper Devastators or Purifiers are actually Sternguard)


GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/06 21:20:40


Post by: bhsman


Empchild wrote:Interesting,,, a Librarian. Being that in the former fluff all GK's had some Phsycic abilities this is a bit of a change.


That's like saying Black Templars are too zealous to need Chaplains. I could see a use for them.


GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/06 21:33:39


Post by: oldone


Well seems fairly awesome but good agree with above, if they get some decient anti-mech, they won't be up there some of the 5th books.


GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/06 22:00:49


Post by: Death By Monkeys


Isn't Inquisitor Valeria the one who's pals with Commissar Cain in his novels?


GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/06 22:05:48


Post by: BrookM


No, that's Amberly Veil(sp).


GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/06 22:42:24


Post by: AlexHolker


My thoughts:

  • The Ordo Xenos Inquisitor should be a choice in the Space Marine codex, not Grey Knights.

  • Having only one FA choice is ridiculous. They could at least throw in something that boosts deep strike - either an Orbital Auspex Array or just a Teleport Homer in a Drop Pod.

  • Along with the above, keeping some form of Orbital Bombardment in the HS slot would allow for an all-Terminator, all-teleporting list that uses every Force Organisation slot.


  • GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/06 22:45:49


    Post by: JohnHwangDD


    Where's the DreadKnight with the KnightLights for KnightFight? Is it just a regular Dread?

    And the Stormies? Where?

    Meh.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/06 22:53:08


    Post by: Powerguy


    I believe Stormtroopers are being merged into the Henchmen unit, which can probably be moved to troops by a HQ option. Its certainly looking like this is going to be much more Codex: Grey Knights than it is going to be Codex: Daemonhunters though.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/06 23:22:22


    Post by: Vhalyar


    Powerguy wrote:Its certainly looking like this is going to be much more Codex: Grey Knights than it is going to be Codex: Daemonhunters though.

    Yes, because that's the name of the codex now


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/06 23:32:52


    Post by: Samus_aran115


    Seems like a boring foc, IMO. No bikes, no assault guys. They're like BA, except not nearly as mobile. Yeah, they have rhinos and land raiders, but they'll be sorely outclassed by the faster armies.

    It seems like the usual army will be dreadnought spam with an OP hq, and terminators as troops. I say dreadnought spam because, well, the rest if the FOC I freaking lane


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/06 23:38:30


    Post by: Vhalyar


    Samus_aran115 wrote:Seems like a boring foc, IMO. No bikes, no assault guys. They're like BA, except not nearly as mobile. Yeah, they have rhinos and land raiders, but they'll be sorely outclassed by the faster armies.

    It seems like the usual army will be dreadnought spam with an OP hq, and terminators as troops. I say dreadnought spam because, well, the rest if the FOC I freaking lane


    Oh, so you've read the codex. Care to enlighten us about the statlines and point costs?

    Edit: Alright, to be more productive; all these are also from Marshal Augustine.

    No restrictions of that nature when it comes to the henchmen.

    The unit is 3-12 and does not take up an elite.
    ArcoFlagelant - FNP, CCwpn
    Banisher- Can take eviscerator, units of deamons within 6" of him re roll succesful inv saves (ala nullzone)
    Crusader- PW, SShield
    Deamonhost- Lots of crazy stuff. No time to elaborate now.
    DeathcultAssassin- 5+ invul, 2 PW.
    Servitor- cheap, come with HB or MMelta for free. Can upgrade to PC (up to 3) will mindlock if no inquisitor is present.
    WeaponSmith- Mini obliterator ( can pick, lascannon, mmelta, hflamer) Also adds bonus to the unit roll d6 add +1 for each after first.
    1- no effect
    2- +12" to the range of all guns
    3- armoursaves improved by one
    4- all shooting weapons are rending.
    5- all models gain 5+ invul
    6- "the works" roll twice on the table, apply both results. No result can be taken twice.
    Mystic- basically a living teleport homer.
    Psyker- power is the blast weapon power form the IG PBS.
    WarriorAcolyte- guardsman grunt.

    The inquisitors are one statline. The different options are just wargear and upgrades that fit their role.

    No wargear rules.

    Special rules

    ATSKNF
    Combat Squads
    Aegis (units targeted by powers, enemy psyker at -1ld for test) Units within 12" of a GK dreadnought targetted by powers psyker is at -4 "reinforced aegis"

    Gk

    44441418 3+ at 1/5 of 100pts each.

    Termies
    44441429 terminator armour. 200pts for 5...

    Paladins are Ws5

    (Replying to a question about Paladins)
    55pts

    apoth + 75. min squad size of 1.

    GhostKnights are also in. (terminators with stealth that are upgrade retinue for one of the special characters, his rules are fun, for every wound he takes another terminator is added to the squad to "protect" him hehe.

    Well for the base cost of 100pts you get 4 GK and a justicar. 2A and Ld9.

    Basic Power is Hammerhand (+1 str in cc)

    Also have warp quake. Any deepstriking unit that ends up within 12" of any GK strike unit will mishap. Also makes enemy teleport homers and beacons stop working.

    IMO a 20pts space marine with a storm bolter (and whatever the force weapon is) is aweseome! and a lot cheaper than they used to be..


    And the following is from Dragmire at HO.
    Lord Kaldor Draigo 275 points
    7 6 5 5 4 5 4 10 2+
    Lord of titan: Pladin squads are troops
    armed with the titan sword and SS as well as SB
    Frag, krak and psyk-out nades
    3 psykic powers, Hamerhand, psyckic comunion and sactified flame

    Was it mentioned that GK have PE against Deamons??

    Storm raven has shadow skies: same and the blood angles one but squads with personal homes dont scatter

    8 8 4 4 2 7 4 10 4+ Assassin stat line.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 00:11:17


    Post by: H.B.M.C.


    All three Ordos in the same book? I’ll believe it when I see it.

    Strike and Purifier squads are real though, and Strike squads should have personal teleporters. So that much is real.

    And nice to see my Inquisition army has been reduced to three choices – Inquisitor, Assassin, Henchmen.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 00:15:18


    Post by: Alpharius


    I really do hope Librarians are in, but...

    A Grey Knight Chaplain would have been ace too!

    This all sounds a bit... off.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 00:16:08


    Post by: BrassScorpion


    DreadKnight...Is it just a regular Dread?
    Oh, no, it is quite a step up from Dreadnoughts!


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 00:22:08


    Post by: bforber


    Didn't all GKs used to have WS 5? I'm taking a lot of this with a big grain of salt.

    Still no mention of the shrouding existing at all.

    The weaponsmith thing seems a bit ridiculous. +12" range on guns? Does that mean my guardsmen/warrior/whatever with a meltagun in the retinue get an upgrade to an assault 1 multi-melta for free more or less?



    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 00:26:10


    Post by: Just Dave


    JohnHwangDD wrote:Where's the DreadKnight with the KnightLights for KnightFight? Is it just a regular Dread?


    I believe you're looking for the Nemesis Dreadknight in the Heavy Support...

    I think it looks fairly reasonable though, all sounds about right. Although I would've thought the standard GK would be a bit better than that...


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    Samus_aran115 wrote:Seems like a boring foc, IMO. No bikes, no assault guys. They're like BA, except not nearly as mobile. Yeah, they have rhinos and land raiders, but they'll be sorely outclassed by the faster armies.

    It seems like the usual army will be dreadnought spam with an OP hq, and terminators as troops. I say dreadnought spam because, well, the rest if the FOC I freaking lane


    You realise this is Grey Knights, right?


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    Vhalyar wrote:WarriorAcolyte- guardsman grunt.


    Surely that's not the only Storm Trooper there?!

    (Replying to a question about Paladins)
    55pts

    apoth + 75. min squad size of 1.

    GhostKnights are also in. (terminators with stealth that are upgrade retinue for one of the special characters, his rules are fun, for every wound he takes another terminator is added to the squad to "protect" him hehe.


    Paladins seem hugely undercosted whilst the Ghostknight reg/Termie thing just sounds crazy and over-powered.

    Lord Kaldor Draigo 275 points
    7 6 5 5 4 5 4 10 2+
    Lord of titan: Pladin squads are troops
    armed with the titan sword and SS as well as SB
    Frag, krak and psyk-out nades
    3 psykic powers, Hamerhand, psyckic comunion and sactified flame

    Was it mentioned that GK have PE against Deamons??

    Storm raven has shadow skies: same and the blood angles one but squads with personal homes dont scatter


    He also seems incredibly over-powered.

    Personally, I'm going to take the 'details' of these rumours with a handful of salt. I'll believe the core ones, such as the FoC and such, but the ones I've quoted among others just sound ridiculous...


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 00:39:48


    Post by: Ehsteve


    Oh how I love the look of that Assassin statline.

    2+/4+ to hit with a vindicare, and possibly unlimited ammo, very nice.

    I'd like to see more about the dreadknight.

    100pts for a squad of 5 PAGKs? Sounds awesome,

    200pts for a squad of 5 TAGKs? Even better.

    Should be a lot faster to total points with these nice rounded numbers.

    And paladins with apothecaries sounds awesome!

    Hope the costing for the GK Dreadnoughts isn't too much above SM codex Dreadnoughts


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 00:41:01


    Post by: Jaon


    GhostKnights? I think not. But otherwise very believeable and credible rumours, thanks a heap!

    Really looking forward to paladin terminators, I hope they are real coz they sound badass. Whats the word on true grit? surely PAGK have more than one attack without charging?


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 00:44:41


    Post by: H.B.M.C.


    Alpharius wrote:This all sounds a bit... off.


    From what I know it’s not that far off (the GK bits that is – I don’t know much about the non-GK bits). The various squad types, some of the powers (Nemesis Hammerhand and Warp Quake), these all track with what I’ve heard.

    Had not heard of Ghostknights before today. They sound... a little silly. But then again given who the author is... [is silenced by GW black helicopter troops]


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 00:48:02


    Post by: Vhalyar


    Just Dave wrote:Personally, I'm going to take the 'details' of these rumours with a handful of salt. I'll believe the core ones, such as the FoC and such, but the ones I've quoted among others just sound ridiculous...


    Since these are all from the same guy (except for the Draigo and assassin stats) and his information comes from reading the material and not from a third party, shouldn't it be an I believe all or nothing deal?

    Still from Marshal:
    Storm Raven is 5pts more than BA counterpart. But has psy power that allows it to ignore shaken and stunned.

    also a lot of units can be upgraded with psybolt ammunition. Whatever that is... 20pts for the entire unit of GK's

    Purgation Squads are HS... their special psypower is being able to shoot at units out of LOS.

    And they have a lot of guns.

    The terminator upgrade character special rule "i shall not yield" basically a 4+ WWB for the character.

    purgation... same as before... 4 weapons, 20pt psycannon, free incinerators, and psilencers (whatever those are)
    Cost of GK unit as they are GK's, just with weapons.

    The GK psyker rule states that the justicar is the one to take the hit. If not then one randomly determined member does. anything that targets psykers specifically.


    Edit:
    (in reply to vehicles using psychic powers and GK having a bonus to power rolls)
    glancing hit.
    As far as I know no bonuses. But there might be some crazy wargear... then again I dont have any info on the gear.

    also, almost entire army has preferred enemy "deamons"


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 00:49:45


    Post by: Jaon


    Are grey knights not fearless anymore? or even stubborn?


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    Im not believing psilencers where, thats a ridiculous play on words. Im hoping purgation squads get assault cannons, that would be awesome. Interested in Purifier squads, I could deffs use some horde stopping units ( I have a nid problem )


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 01:00:32


    Post by: H.B.M.C.


    Jaon wrote:Im not believing psilencers where, thats a ridiculous play on words.


    Believe it. (/Trinity)


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 01:04:30


    Post by: Jaon


    Ok so couple points here.

    Point 1: It was mentioned that GK have preferred enemy against Daemons.
    Point 2: It was mentioned that they could possibly adopt the ability to reroll 1's (rumoured that GK wound daemons on a 2+)

    This makes that totally redundant. I smell salt.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 01:13:43


    Post by: Vhalyar


    Marshal never said anything about wounding daemons though.
    Careful about crossing rumors.

    On that note, here's more:
    Someone's Questions wrote: 1. Any army-wide GK special rules?
    2. What's the stat-line of an inquisitor?
    3. How is the anti-tank looking in this codex?

    Marshal's Reply wrote:1- ATSKNF
    - Combat Squads
    - The Aegis
    - Psyker Pilots
    - Brotherhood of psykers
    - Psyker Mastery Levels
    - Preferred Enemy Deamons
    2. 443334310 4+ Stubborn, IC. (25pts)
    3. So far i don't know... other than the inquisitorial henchmen mobs, and the dreadnoughts/landraiders/stormravens. Squad based AT seems limited.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 01:14:13


    Post by: H.B.M.C.


    Really, because of a conflicting rumour you're going to toss out all the others?


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 01:20:22


    Post by: Vhalyar


    And assassin point costs
    Callidus- 145
    Eversor- 130
    Culexus-135
    Vindicare- 145


    Harsh costs, but then again if they really don't use a slot on the FOC it's quite interesting.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 01:24:46


    Post by: warboss


    those rumors of 55pt 2 wound terminators look like a steal. with everyone getting terminators as troops, i wonder how they're going to make dark angels feel special again regarding TDA?


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 01:35:12


    Post by: Pyriel-


    Lord Kaldor Draigo 275 points
    7 6 5 5 4 5 4 10 2+
    Lord of titan: Pladin squads are troops

    Making paladins troops?
    What´s the point, they are so expensive and so it the character you´ll only afford one big squad or two small in a standard army.

    Are grey knights not fearless anymore? or even stubborn?

    Kinda bad, with their WS5 those were what made then stand out from all other massed tac squads out there.

    The GK psyker rule states that the justicar is the one to take the hit. If not then one randomly determined member does. anything that targets psykers specifically.

    Sounds like a pretty big weakness, the one guy in the squad that gives them Ld9 is super easy to target and kill of.

    purgation... same as before... 4 weapons, 20pt psycannon, free incinerators, and psilencers (whatever those are)
    Cost of GK unit as they are GK's, just with weapons.

    Those psycannons better be pretty damn awesome, 20p for a weapon that removes 1A, a force weapon and a stormbolter from a 20p mini AND adds 20p to it better be well worth it for sure.

    So much for the rumored psycannon spam with a IC that makes purgation squads troops, they´d be terminator priced with no or few casualty soakers, crappy survivability for their cost and sitting ducks in cc.

    also a lot of units can be upgraded with psybolt ammunition. Whatever that is... 20pts for the entire unit of GK's

    I was hoping the whole big-squad discounts were out in this codex. I hate it when full sized squads are encouraged in an army where every mini costs an arm and a leg.

    Psybolts might be what they are now, Inv save ignorers and that makes then pretty useless vs most things in game. Even inv eldar for most part have armour saves against bolters.
    I also hoped for non specific wargear that will never be taken in tournament play due to over specialization.

    Paladins seem hugely undercosted whilst the Ghostknight reg/Termie thing just sounds crazy and over-powered.

    Hardly but that depends on their high cost and "only" 4+ inv saves.
    Rapid plasma, ap2 pies etc will eat them for breakfast and I suspect wargear upgrades that affect staying power like stormshields will IF allowed, cost tons making this into a GK version of the worthless vanguards.



    It sounds like Inquisitor and henchmen armies might actually be far more "powerful" then pure GK armies with all those awesome and probably cheap henchmen and wargear options.

    I´m however glad the codex seems to be getting options for dirt cheap HQs and not be stuck in the at-least-100p-swamp like the rest of the SM.



    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 02:33:15


    Post by: Puscifer


    Hmmm...

    Is this accurate???

    Considering the old thread was closed very recently because of no new news.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 02:40:08


    Post by: Iago


    Well over there they call Me Marshal Augustine... here I am me.



    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 02:44:44


    Post by: AgeOfEgos


    Pyriel- wrote:
    Lord Kaldor Draigo 275 points
    7 6 5 5 4 5 4 10 2+
    Lord of titan: Pladin squads are troops

    Making paladins troops?
    What´s the point, they are so expensive and so it the character you´ll only afford one big squad or two small in a standard army.




    You're nuts. If the rumors are true, this is what my opponents can expect for me to bring to the party;


    Lord Kaldor---Make Paladins Scoring


    55 point Paladin Terminators with unique wound gear for allocation purposes charging out of Land Raiders. And they score.


    By way of comparison, Vanilla Terminators (non scoring) with 1 wound are 40 points. For 15 points I get WS 5, 2 wounds, wound allocation trickery....and they count as troops? Yes please.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 02:45:41


    Post by: Jaon


    H.B.M.C. wrote:Really, because of a conflicting rumour you're going to toss out all the others?


    Hint received, and understood


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 02:46:27


    Post by: Iago


    Yes, paladins look quite nice. The Ghost terminators are nice as well. With stealth.... they are bought as an upgrade retinue to another special character and are 32pts a piece. And when the character takes a wound... (i think he has 3 or 4) then another terminator arrives out of nowhere to protect him... hehe.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 02:48:52


    Post by: AgeOfEgos


    Iago wrote:Yes, paladins look quite nice. The Ghost terminators are nice as well. With stealth.... they are bought as an upgrade retinue to another special character and are 32pts a piece. And when the character takes a wound... (i think he has 3 or 4) then another terminator arrives out of nowhere to protect him... hehe.


    What options do the Paladins have? Can they pack SS + Various weapons.....combi melta?

    /Thanks for all the info dude


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 02:52:45


    Post by: Kurgash


    If this is how the 3rd edition updates are going to look I have high hopes for the rest of them. I can smell the ridiculous from here.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 02:54:41


    Post by: Iago


    No ss (I have not seen any, other than crusaders henchmen)
    No combi Weapons... their options are

    Force Halberds
    Nemesis Deamon Hammers
    Pair of Nemesis Falcions
    Nemesis Warding Stave
    Psycannon
    Incinerators
    Psylencers
    Apothecary
    Banner of Brotherhood
    Entire unit can have psybolt ammunition
    Any model can make any weapon Master Crafted at +5 pts per weapon.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 02:58:27


    Post by: Kurgash


    Oh god...now it's "Nemesisi X" for the newest marine book.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 03:02:46


    Post by: AgeOfEgos


    Iago wrote:No ss (I have not seen any, other than crusaders henchmen)
    No combi Weapons... their options are

    Force Halberds
    Nemesis Deamon Hammers
    Pair of Nemesis Falcions
    Nemesis Warding Stave
    Psycannon
    Incinerators
    Psylencers
    Apothecary
    Banner of Brotherhood
    Entire unit can have psybolt ammunition
    Any model can make any weapon Master Crafted at +5 pts per weapon.




    Ahh, no SS...that's weak. Some other questions if you don't mind;


    Is the "Nemesis Warding Stave" a 4++ at least?
    What's the Pyscannon profile?
    Banner of brotherhood?
    Psylencers?


    Thanks again .


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 03:06:32


    Post by: Iago


    I do not have any info on wargear or weapons. Sorry.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 03:16:37


    Post by: AgeOfEgos


    Iago wrote:I do not have any info on wargear or weapons. Sorry.


    No worries, thanks again for all the great information.


    I'll also add this; If the rumors are true this certainly does not read like a Cruddance codex. Multi wound-unique allocation elite units are a trademark of Kelly.....which I know it can't be him due to timetable....but it certainly reminds me of his style dex.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 03:23:23


    Post by: Mad4Minis


    Great, more rules rumors, how about some pics of the minis...


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 03:24:32


    Post by: Kid_Kyoto


    Well I also played pure =I= so I'm a bit sad. To me Marines are fairly dull, Inquisitors and henchmen are must more interesting for modeling and storyline.

    Adding in more jarhead varients to me just means Space Marine with Hat.

    But... I'm willing to wait and see, and I'll probably buy it anyway.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 03:35:06


    Post by: AgeOfEgos


    Kid_Kyoto wrote:Well I also played pure =I= so I'm a bit sad. To me Marines are fairly dull, Inquisitors and henchmen are must more interesting for modeling and storyline.

    Adding in more jarhead varients to me just means Space Marine with Hat.

    But... I'm willing to wait and see, and I'll probably buy it anyway.



    Take Coteaz, you can have an entire army of Henchmen!


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 03:35:12


    Post by: snake


    Why would all branches of the inquisition be represented if this is going to be C:GK?



    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 03:38:08


    Post by: Jaon


    Who knows?


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 03:39:57


    Post by: Munga


    Anyone else see that on page 24 of the new WD, they say they'll mention why the greyknights have bits in the new stormraven kit in april? I think that's a big hint.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 03:45:20


    Post by: Samus_aran115


    Mad4Minis wrote:Great, more rules rumors, how about some pics of the minis...


    Yeah, really. I'm much more interested in the models. The dreadknight has piqued my interest, and seems pretty reliable. Everything else seems like bunk, to be honest. I'm taking everything with a boatload of salt.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 03:46:55


    Post by: Brother SRM


    Munga wrote:Anyone else see that on page 24 of the new WD, they say they'll mention why the greyknights have bits in the new stormraven kit in april? I think that's a big hint.

    We already know for a fact that GK are April. GW sent out an Incoming! email and everything.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 03:49:17


    Post by: Kid_Kyoto


    snake wrote:Why would all branches of the inquisition be represented if this is going to be C:GK?



    I would guess it is to make it abundantly clear to all of us that there will never, ever, EVER by an Inquisition Codex.

    Ever.



    I understand there's a full page color plate of Grand Master Johnson urinating on the Daemon Hunter and Witch Hunter books.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    AgeOfEgos wrote:
    Kid_Kyoto wrote:Well I also played pure =I= so I'm a bit sad. To me Marines are fairly dull, Inquisitors and henchmen are must more interesting for modeling and storyline.

    Adding in more jarhead varients to me just means Space Marine with Hat.

    But... I'm willing to wait and see, and I'll probably buy it anyway.



    Take Coteaz, you can have an entire army of Henchmen!


    It is tempting. Very tempting.

    At least my =I= STs work well as IG vets.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 03:52:56


    Post by: shealyr


    The wound allocation shenanigans combined with new, crazy, semi-unfluffy units just screams Phil Kelly.

    Are we sure he didn't do both this and DE? Could he have been working on Grey Knights as a "side project" for some time?


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 04:03:10


    Post by: JohnHwangDD


    Hmm... Looks like I oughta convert more of my Russes into S10 AP2 Demolishers...


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 04:15:01


    Post by: Iago


    Ok time for more:
    GK psypowers:
    Smite- See C:SM

    Quicksilver- Begining of own movement. Unit within 6" gains I 10 till end of turn.

    Warp-Rift- Flamer Template JOTWW

    Might of Titan- Beggining of librarians assault phase. Unit within 6" gains +1 str and extra D6 armour pen vs vehicles. Bonus is cumulative with hammerhand (yes, that means that S6 2D6 armour pen GK's is a go!..)

    The Shrouding- Opponents shooting phase. All units within 6" benefit from stealth. And have 6+ cover even if in the open (so 5+ in the open and 3+ in most other cases)

    Mind Blades- Start of any assault phase. Pick enemy unit within 6", they loose 1 toughness for the remainder of the assault.

    Vortex of Doom- see C:SM

    Sanctuary- Any enemy assault phase. Enemy units assaulting any GK unit within 12" of the librarian treat all terrain (including open ground) and difficult and dangerous terrain.

    The Summoning- Librarian movement. Pick a friendly non vehicle unit. Place them within 6" of the librarian using the DS rules.

    oh wait, more you say!:

    Librarian (mastery level 2) 150pts Can upgrade to level 3 for +50:
    Each purchased power is +5 pts, but he comes with hammerhand for free.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 04:16:50


    Post by: AgeOfEgos


    Uh, The Summoning has a range? Because that power seems very strong.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 04:20:28


    Post by: Iago


    any friendly unit on the battlefield not locked in combat.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 04:22:46


    Post by: AgeOfEgos


    Iago wrote:any friendly unit on the battlefield not locked in combat.



    Ahh, friendly. I read that as non-friendly...hah. I was thinking...hmmm The Summoning followed by flamer template JoWW? Oh my.


    Friendly seems kind of strange but I guess if Purg squads can have nasty weapons it might work for something.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    You have any stats on the MC Dread?


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 04:24:41


    Post by: H.B.M.C.


    Those psychic powers look right to me. Warp Quake is probably my fav, but The Summoning is kinda crazy (and it's meant to be).



    And as people have correctly guessed what the common name in this Codex is (Nemesis), compared to the BA Codex where it was Blood, I'll repost what I had in the last thread - the weapon that the Dreadknight has - and you can resume guessing the rest:

    "Nemesis ****fist"

    Guessing this weapon name will likely reveal the writer of this Codex at the same time, and as I've said before, it ain't Kelly.


    And I really hope the Falchions and Warding Staves are made in plastic. From what I know about them they sound really cool.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 04:30:47


    Post by: bhsman


    A template version of Jaws? Be still, my beating heart.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 04:33:16


    Post by: Kid_Kyoto


    Iago wrote:

    Librarian (mastery level 2) 150pts Can upgrade to level 3 for +50:
    Each purchased power is +5 pts, but he comes with hammerhand for free.


    Mastery levels? Didn't they go away in 2nd edition?


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 04:39:02


    Post by: Iago


    mastery level = how many powers can be used per turn.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 04:47:17


    Post by: Kid_Kyoto


    Iago wrote:mastery level = how many powers can be used per turn.


    I thought that was determined by how many servo skulls and flying naked babies you had?


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 04:51:27


    Post by: Ehsteve


    wait...3 psychic powers a turn Librarians?

    Holy crap, now every librarian can be Tigurius!

    12 S4 AP2 shots each turn.

    3 initiative saves a turn of removed from play (very good against say...wraithlords).

    Summon your entire army within 6" of the Librarian.

    Sounds awesome!


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 04:54:58


    Post by: Zefig


    Some of those psychic powers would result in ridiculous shenanigans in Apoc with the right choice of allies.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 05:06:44


    Post by: Iago


    K Grand Master Powers (level1)
    Hammerhand
    Psychic communion - take test, if successfull GK player can modify reserve rolls by +1 or -1 and you can choose to modify after each roll.

    Brother Captain (level 1)
    Same

    Brotherhood Champion (level 1)
    Hammerhand
    Heroic Sacrifice- during either players assault phase, when the "chaplain" is taken off as a casualty. Is passed, make one attack against any one model that he was in B2B with. If the attack hits, the model is also removed as a casualty with no saves... if the attack misses then no effect. Remember he is WS 7...

    Terminators-
    Hammerhand

    Strike Squads-
    Hammerhand
    Warp Quake- Start of GK movement phase, lasts till GK start of next movement. All enemy teleport homers stop working, any enemy unit that deep strikes within 12" of the strike squad will suffer a mishap.

    Purgation Squads-
    HH
    Astral Aim- Shooting Phase, unit and attached characters may fire at any unit in range regardless of LOS. Target automatically gains 4+ cover that can't be modified.

    Paladins:
    HH
    Holocaust- 12" Str5 Ap- Large Blast

    Purifier Squad:
    HH
    Cleansing Flame- Start of the assault in any player turn. All enemy -models- that are a part of the same assault suffer a wound on a 4+ before any blows are struck. Casualties count towards combat resolution.

    Techmarine (mastery 1)
    HH
    Reconstruction- Start of TM movement, may re roll any repair roll.

    Rhino-Razorback/
    Fortitude- if passed (at start of GK turn) Nullifies any shaken stunned results.

    Dreadknight-
    HH
    Holocaust

    Dreadnoughts-
    Fortitude (see rhino)

    Land Raiders-
    Fortitude (ibid)

    Storm Raven same...

    Brother Captain Stern Level 2:
    HH
    Communion
    Zone of Banishment: During his assault phase. All models friend and foe, within D6" (not stern), must take a strength test or be dragged into the warp... deamons re roll successful tests. These casualties do not count towards combat.

    Castellan Crowe Level 1:
    HH
    Heroic Sacrifice
    Cleansing Flame

    Inquisitors are not psykers.

    Inquisitor Corteaz (100pts) Mastery 2:
    HH
    Sanctuary
    Mind Blades

    There, thats all I have.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 05:40:54


    Post by: Pyriel-


    You're nuts. If the rumors are true, this is what my opponents can expect for me to bring to the party;


    Lord Kaldor---Make Paladins Scoring


    55 point Paladin Terminators with unique wound gear for allocation purposes charging out of Land Raiders. And they score.


    By way of comparison, Vanilla Terminators (non scoring) with 1 wound are 40 points. For 15 points I get WS 5, 2 wounds, wound allocation trickery....and they count as troops? Yes please.

    Depends.
    I wouldnt mind seeing your army on the opposite side of the table.
    How many of those knights will you be fielding with a Hq and ONE landraider alone costing over 500 points.

    Then again vanguards can also wound allocate with unique wargear but nobody ever take them, hmm, wonder why.

    The only thing GW need to do in order to ruin all "powerdness" of the paladin unit is make sure tehy dont get any AV capabilities so there you have 250p landraiders, a freaking super expensive HQ and what is it now, 625 point units that are naked and without any wargear, adding wound allocating things and some staying power wargear to them would mean 800+ point 10 man squads.
    Where is the overpowerdness in having one landraider and 15 terminators in a 1850p game?

    Those dirt cheap long fang plasmacannons will have a laugh.


    Now I think GW will give the GKs one super unit, just like all other newer armies get, eldar get a sear council on bikes that is insane, orks get nob bikers etc but for most parts those are so expensive it´s hard to even earn back their points and they all have big weaknesses built in.

    I see this one (paladin) to be a fun and very, very overpriced unit if geared out properly and thus mostly used in careful numbers with very limited wargear selection, more for fun rather then overpowered game winning but lets wait till we know more.


    No ss (I have not seen any, other than crusaders henchmen)
    No combi Weapons... their options are

    Force Halberds
    Nemesis Deamon Hammers
    Pair of Nemesis Falcions
    Nemesis Warding Stave
    Psycannon
    Incinerators
    Psylencers
    Apothecary
    Banner of Brotherhood
    Entire unit can have psybolt ammunition
    Any model can make any weapon Master Crafted at +5 pts per weapon.

    no SS, well there goes that unit down the drain.
    A super expensive glass hammer basically. Well not glass per see but the first plasmacannon toting dev squad (SM or god forbid, long fangs) or low AP pieplates (IG mech) and this unit is one big waste of points. Even 25p sternguards with combiplasmas will have fun against this.

    The paladins seems to be simply to expensive in their functioning form, meaning tooled up for CC with costly wargear plus having a reliable means to assault (landraider).
    A crusader with a decked out squad and HQ would run around 1000-1100p and give a new meaning to the phrase "all eggs in one basket", not to mention give dark eldar armies victory by walkover with all their first turn AV capabilities.

    I do not have any info on wargear or weapons. Sorry.

    *Phew*, this means there is still hope.

    Well I also played pure =I= so I'm a bit sad. To me Marines are fairly dull, Inquisitors and henchmen are must more interesting for modeling and storyline.

    Adding in more jarhead varients to me just means Space Marine with Hat.

    But... I'm willing to wait and see, and I'll probably buy it anyway.

    I agree, many of the current unique traits are gone but I still think GW can pull it of.
    Doesnt matter really, I love my GK army and I will probably end up buying a very, very large amount of GK minis when they get released...and I mean very

    Why would all branches of the inquisition be represented if this is going to be C:GK?

    Not to piss of all the =I= fans and their purchased stormtrooper minis I believe.

    The Shrouding- Opponents shooting phase. All units within 6" benefit from stealth. And have 6+ cover even if in the open (so 5+ in the open and 3+ in most other cases)

    So shrouding, as in a passive harder-to-see-GKs is out?
    Thats sad, the only way your terminator priced purgation guys at the back will survive the counter fire is thus if an expensive libby is nearby or did I miss something and these powers can be taken by all squads for a c h e a p price?.

    The Summoning- Librarian movement. Pick a friendly non vehicle unit. Place them within 6" of the librarian using the DS rules.

    This is a real super power, that is IF the libby has access to a locator beacon as wargear. Could be used to get those super expensive paladins into the thick of it without relying on expensive landriaders.

    Librarian (mastery level 2) 150pts Can upgrade to level 3 for +50:
    Each purchased power is +5 pts, but he comes with hammerhand for free.

    The important thing here are the peanut point eldar anti psycher wargear.
    Will a GK army be auto crippled vs any eldar army that used anti libby runes and stones?
    How about tyranids and their anti psycher rules?

    If this army is so high reliant on rolling successful psycher powers and rolling lots of them this might be a problem.
    How about psychic hoods, do all GK squads get them inbuilt or are they an only-libby wargear?

    Friendly seems kind of strange but I guess if Purg squads can have nasty weapons it might work for something.

    As said, only if the libby can get a locator beacon or else those incinerator squads will mishap very often.

    A template version of Jaws? Be still, my beating heart.

    The line version is better, who wants to be near (in charge range) of a monstrous creature when casting this one?

    wait...3 psychic powers a turn Librarians?

    Holy crap, now every librarian can be Tigurius!

    12 S4 AP2 shots each turn.

    3 initiative saves a turn of removed from play (very good against say...wraithlords).

    Summon your entire army within 6" of the Librarian.

    Sounds awesome!

    For a 215p easy to kill libby with no other wargear I expect them to be awesome.

    Plus, if the libby has no aces to a beacon summoning half your army next to him will spell the end of your game due to mishap loss.

    K Grand Master Powers (level1)
    Hammerhand
    Psychic communion - take test, if successfull GK player can modify reserve rolls by +1 or -1 and you can choose to modify after each roll.

    That hammerhand, is it just for him or does it affect the whole squad he is in or any squad within X´?
    How does hamemrhand work for/with other units?

    Remember he is WS 7...

    Are GK HQs WS7?
    That would be fun and let the current GKs being WS5 and thus better at CC then normal SM shine through some.
    Having GKs at WS5 is(was?) one of those things that set apart them from being gray space marines imo.

    Strike Squads-
    Hammerhand
    Warp Quake- Start of GK movement phase, lasts till GK start of next movement. All enemy teleport homers stop working, any enemy unit that deep strikes within 12" of the strike squad will suffer a mishap.

    Can warp quake be taken by basic GKs and other? Thus can you make the whole army deepstrike immune as previously rumored or do you need to cluster your whole army around one type of unit to make them immune to DS?

    Any info on basic GK squads?

    Well, thanks for the info you gave, it was pretty fun to read.
    Things looks OP and extremely fun but remember what the opinion was of the current SM dex before it get released and we all screamed cheese over the rumors, vanguard squads that could kill everything and legionaires that were super tough etc etc...and look at it all now, barely anything of the "cool" rumored power options are ever used by anyone.
    So hold on to your cries of OP cheese till we actually know more.
    I would hate for the paladins or 215p libbies or that MC to end up being a SM vanguard eqivalent, never seen in any competitive play but oh so OP on paper.



    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 05:44:15


    Post by: shealyr


    Looks like it is Codex: Psyker Marines, and no ranged anti-tank in the form of psychic powers.



    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 05:47:00


    Post by: Pyriel-


    How on earth will this codex stand a chance vs a mech list like IG or anything else with good AV mech for that matter?

    And another fun question is how will the player separate all the PAGK squads from each others?
    There are PAGKs, PAGK purgation squads, strike squads, purifyer squads, some can teleport, some can not etc and all are base on the same PAGK.

    Will there be small addons in the form of plastic teleport generators that you can put on the backpack or what, everything is gray, power armoured and have different powers and abilities and uses so how do we see the difference of what is what when things get clustered?



    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 06:11:29


    Post by: DarknessEternal


    Vhalyar wrote:
    8 8 4 4 2 7 4 10 4+ Assassin stat line.

    This makes Phoenix Lords cry.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 06:44:16


    Post by: Tanus


    I can't believe that no one has mentioned the Jokaero yet. They're in as Inquisitorial Henchmen.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 07:14:30


    Post by: grimz


    Zzz Orange Apes in an army dedicated to killing daemons and all things non human???

    Bring back ISTs


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 07:26:25


    Post by: Magister187


    Pyriel- wrote:How on earth will this codex stand a chance vs a mech list like IG or anything else with good AV mech for that matter?

    And another fun question is how will the player separate all the PAGK squads from each others?
    There are PAGKs, PAGK purgation squads, strike squads, purifyer squads, some can teleport, some can not etc and all are base on the same PAGK.

    Will there be small addons in the form of plastic teleport generators that you can put on the backpack or what, everything is gray, power armoured and have different powers and abilities and uses so how do we see the difference of what is what when things get clustered?



    Seriously? Space Marine units all based on one identical model is that hard of a foreign concept for you?
    It appears to be 3 units based on Power Armoured Gray Knights (Strike, Purgation, Purifier). For reference, Vanilla space marines have 5 (Command, Sternguard, Vanguard, Tactical, Devastator).
    I am sure there will be a piece of wargear you will get to model on Justicars with the Teleporter for their squad, much like you can model other upgrades.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 08:36:17


    Post by: KOS


    interesting.

    I hope that they are going to release some new information regarding miniatures... I'm wondering to start a GK army but from what I read they seem pretty.... overpowered ?


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 09:37:25


    Post by: Sentai_Sage


    Kroothawk wrote:Grand Master rumoured to pick D3 units during deployment and giving them a special rule:
    ...
    Makes them Scout



    Kroothawk wrote:No drop pod. But GK strike squads are supposed to be able to take personal teleporters. This makes them jump infantry. And once per game it is rumored to allow them to make a 30" move, just move... not a on table deep strike. they Can shoot when they do this, but not charge.



    Scout USR a Strike squad. They 30" move during the scout movment phase. GK player goes first. Move squad 12" (Jump Inf) Assault 6"

    That's a 48" First turn assault. Who's affraid of IG mech now?

    Based off rumers with limited knowledge and whatnot. I don't expect this to work either. But hey, it was fun to point out, no?


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 09:46:02


    Post by: synack


    Sentai_Sage wrote:
    Scout USR a Strike squad. They 30" move during the scout movment phase. GK player goes first. Move squad 12" (Jump Inf) Assault 6"

    That's a 48" First turn assault. Who's affraid of IG mech now?



    Or, assuming termies can take a LR as a dedicated transport. Scout the termie squad inside a LR. Dedicated transports can use the Scout rule if the unit they are carrying has the rule. So 12" move with the LR pre-game. Next turn move 12", disembark 2" (3"), charge 6". Should be able to get anything for a charge in pitched battle.

    I'm also liking the idea of a techmarine + librarian in a purgation squad. Bolster defenses + the pshycic power that gives them stealth for a total of a 2+ cover save.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 10:01:19


    Post by: Sentai_Sage


    Vhalyar wrote: Basic Power is Hammerhand (+1 str in cc)


    So, can we expect this to be the way all squads increase their str, or will there also be a NFW upgrade (Halberd?) option, for a total of 7str?


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 10:14:17


    Post by: synack


    Sentai_Sage wrote:
    Vhalyar wrote: Basic Power is Hammerhand (+1 str in cc)


    So, can we expect this to be the way all squads increase their str, or will there also be a NFW upgrade (Halberd?) option, for a total of 7str?


    The Halbred adds +1I


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 10:50:03


    Post by: Jaon


    Is the misspelling of the word "grey" an internet meme or something...?


    Pyriel- wrote:

    Then again vanguards can also wound allocate with unique wargear but nobody ever take them, hmm, wonder why.



    Um...yes, but no, they cant. They can allocate away from their favourite model if they all have different wargear, but they cant use wound shenanigans to keep each other alive longer than usually allowed because they only have 1 wound.
    Pyriel- wrote:
    Plus, if the libby has no access to a beacon summoning half your army next to him will spell the end of your game due to mishap loss.


    I believe you read wrong. You can only call one allied squad per turn, not as many as you like. The risk is still high though.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 11:25:19


    Post by: Mnemoch


    Where are you guys getting two wound termies from? I can't find anything on that at all in this thread.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 11:25:31


    Post by: ph34r


    Jaon wrote:Is the misspelling of the word "grey" an internet meme or something...?
    You do know that in American English it's gray, right? Though grey is also considered an acceptable spelling.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    Mnemoch wrote:Where are you guys getting two wound termies from? I can't find anything on that at all in this thread.
    Paladins. 55 points each, can be made troops by use of a special character.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 11:42:11


    Post by: Sentai_Sage


    AgeOfEgos wrote: I was thinking...hmmm The Summoning followed by flamer template JoWW? Oh my.


    I'm thinking The Summoning, followed by Sanc. Protected squad where ever you need it.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 12:18:58


    Post by: Jaon


    ph34r wrote:
    Jaon wrote:Is the misspelling of the word "grey" an internet meme or something...?
    You do know that in American English it's gray, right? Though grey is also considered an acceptable spelling.



    No I did not know that, but the fact that they are literally called Grey Knights might deter some people from calling them Gray Knights, same with power armour. you CAN say power armor, but it is actually written by GW as power armour. Just a little nit picking tho I guess, thanks for informing me about that


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 12:24:12


    Post by: ph34r


    Jaon wrote:No I did not know that, but the fact that they are literally called Grey Knights might deter some people from calling them Gray Knights, same with power armour. you CAN say power armor, but it is actually written by GW as power armour. Just a little nit picking tho I guess, thanks for informing me about that
    I don't think that anyone will care what the official GW spelling is (British) when they can use their own language with equal ease.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 12:32:25


    Post by: synack


    Librarian in a inquisitor squad with mystics, means you could summon a squad and never have it scatter.

    You could leave that squad near a objective (say in capture control), send the rest of your army forward, then on turn 5 summon a single troop back onto the objective to claim it and not have the squad scatter.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 12:35:00


    Post by: Mr Hyena


    I'm...disappointed about whats known for the Inquisition side. I know that the Inquisition was to take a lesser role and I was fine with that. But to be limited to taking Coteaz to have an Inquisition army? why? (Kinda funny; the GKs nearly always work with the Ordo Malleus. Why separate them?)

    I just hope Inquisitorial Rhinos and Chimeras are back and hopefully one or two new options. (non-vehicle and other) I hope the Henchmen are cheap enough to take a good army of them. Also bring back Inquisitorial Stormtrooper squads! (NOT just as part of Henchmen warbands.) Having something from this list would please me:

    -Inquisitorial Tank (of around Leman Russ/Predator/Immolator type)
    -Inquisitor that unlocks the Allies rule again (an alternative to Coteaz)
    -Inquisitor that allows a good amount more Assassins to be fielded. (assuming they keep the 1 Operative on field rule

    I do like all three Inquisitors in the one book, as it makes sense with that rumour of 'Inquisitors representing all Ordos' in the previous thread.

    I'm not sure how this is supposed to be a good development for =I= fans.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 12:39:26


    Post by: Sentai_Sage


    Jaon wrote:you CAN say power armor, but it is actually written by GW as power armour.


    I... I just checked my ork codex. It's... they wear 'Eavy Armour! I Never Knew! I thought they had armor The Whole Time! X_x


    synack wrote:The Halbred adds +1I


    WHAT?! Since when?! <3


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 12:40:41


    Post by: ph34r


    Honestly as an =][= fan, the idea of 6 types of inquisitor/special inquisitor as well as infinite allowed squads of henchmen, of which they are adding new types, is exciting for me.
    The things I regret the loss of are crazy rules for arco-flagellents, and stormtroopers, unless they manage to represent them well with the "warrior" type in the henchman squad.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 12:44:17


    Post by: winnertakesall


    I also really expected rules for stormtroopers as I thought that Ordo Hereticus, Ordo Malleus ect. used quite a few of them in routine missions


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 12:49:31


    Post by: Mr Hyena


    They must have Inquisitorial Stormtroopers represented. A 'guardsmen grunt' isn't an Inq Stormtrooper; and these units are really good at representing the Inquisition

    I'm not 100% sure I'm fond of this 'stick everything Inquisition related into THE MOB'


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 12:55:38


    Post by: AgeOfEgos


    Pyriel- wrote:


    Then again vanguards can also wound allocate with unique wargear but nobody ever take them, hmm, wonder why.

    The only thing GW need to do in order to ruin all "powerdness" of the paladin unit is make sure tehy dont get any AV capabilities so there you have 250p landraiders, a freaking super expensive HQ and what is it now, 625 point units that are naked and without any wargear, adding wound allocating things and some staying power wargear to them would mean 800+ point 10 man squads.
    Where is the overpowerdness in having one landraider and 15 terminators in a 1850p game?

    Those dirt cheap long fang plasmacannons will have a laugh.




    Well, that's a poor analogy as;

    Vanguard only have one wound
    Vanguard don't have FNP and a 2+ save
    Vanguard aren't WS 5
    Vanguard don't have an 4++
    Vanguard don't come with power weapons


    A better analogy would be Nobz, which are found in almost any serious Ork list. TH/SS Terms + Land Raider + Vulkan run 650ish and are pretty common too...and they only have one wound and can't allocate, lack a better/free EA and aren't WS5. I've never seen Plasma Cannon Long Fangs. Ever. But if they brought those, I imagine they wouldn't laugh much considering their 200 point unit can't blow up/stop a Land Raider.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 12:57:07


    Post by: Just Dave


    Btw, judging from what some have said and the naming and design of some things...

    ... Tenner that this is a Matt Ward Codex.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 13:10:54


    Post by: Therion


    Wow. This codex might actually be even weaker than Chaos Daemons while suffering from essentially every same weakness. So you'll have a small army with storm bolters and glorified assault cannons that is reasonably good in close combat but will leave the table with zero points in very short order against mech armies (90% of the armies out there).

    Someone has definately watered down the psychic powers. They're all pretty crap. Who would want to deep strike on top of Grey Knights when they can be tabled from the other side of the table? The immunity to shakes and stuns was supposed to be automatic for all GK vehicles. Now it's a psychic test every turn. On top of that they were rumoured to have the bonus armour psychic power which would've actually made them contenders. The summoning is a joke for two reasons, firstly because only one model in the army can have it (so you just push against that model) and secondly because it can't pull GK units from close combat.

    Paladins are a bad version of the economically priced eternal warrior Bloodcrushers. The Dread Knight is the 'loyal' version of the Soul Grinder. This codex reeks of lack of imagination.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 13:13:26


    Post by: synack


    Sentai_Sage wrote:
    synack wrote:The Halbred adds +1I


    WHAT?! Since when?! <3


    From Warseer (took me a while to find it, knew I had seen it, bolded the relevant part)


    Marshal Augustine;5293455 wrote:Ok where to start?

    I have not heard or seen anything relating to weapons/wargear yet. So no dice on that one.

    The assassins have one singular "fluff" entry, that states their generic rules... 6+ FNP, Dodge Save etc... and then one page with the rules for each one (i think) stating wargear and rules. I do not believe they take up a slot.

    Inquisitors are about the cost of a current GK.

    Nemesis force weapons ( I have no idea)... units are armed with nemesis swords. And units can upgrade any models to have force halberds at xpoints. the Halberd I believe adds 1 Initiative.

    No libby dread. But all GK vehicles are phykers... their go to power is to "cure" shaken or stunned at the start of a GK turn.

    Dreadknight:
    t7 w4 2+sv/ 4+inv with lots of weapon upgrades including the heavy psycannon and super incinerator.



    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 13:20:29


    Post by: Gitzbitah


    No one's excited about the much needed addition of techmarines?

    All kidding aside, these rumors make me very enthusiastic about this book. They look to be able to redploy quickly to meet Daemons as they port in, and have some powers to concentrate their firepower and interdict daemons- infiltrating 12" radius spheres of mishap seems like a reasonable counter. While making them anti daemon, it does seem that they'll still be quite challenging to play against conventional mechanized forces. As with the Orks, a codex flaw has become a defining army feature- Grey Knights suck against mech. I highly approve of this as long as the McNemesis McDreadKnight Knight can beat Defilers and Soulgrinders to death with their own limbs.

    That would leave us with a specialist army that does what it set out to do really well, without messing around with conventional thinking.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 13:21:49


    Post by: Just Dave


    I'm amazed at peoples criticisms of this 'Codex' atm; we don't have much confirmation and yet people have already made up their mind?

    The Psychic Powers seem powerful indeed; one that creates Str6 + 2D6 against vehicles.
    A JotWW flamer template ()
    Initiative 10 to an entire unit (combined with GK normal ability, this should rock in assault)
    Cause an enemy unit to be -1 toughness(!!!!)
    And the ability to deepstrike a unit near the Libby - think Purgutation squads.

    The Psychic Powers seem very impressive, particularly combined with the standard powers for each squad.
    A Psychic Test to get immunity to stunned/shaken is still powerful, particularly if you don't have to pay.

    Paladins are not a Weaker Version of Bloodcrushers; they're 2+4++, armed with Nemesis Force Weapons etc. If anything, they're a stronger version of Nobs.

    Judging from what is being reported so far, Grey Knights will only really have a problem against Mechanised or maybe Eldar. This is fairly fitting to be honest as not many Daemons roll around in tanks and ultimately I'd suspect there will be some kind of anti-mech within the Codex.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 13:26:39


    Post by: Melissia


    I wonder what Inquisitor Valeria's model will look like. I hope it isn't one of those incredibly douchey models that they use for the female WH inquisitors right now, because those are just... wrong, with their ridiculous hair and angular man-faces.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 13:26:44


    Post by: Kanluwen


    I'm pretty much calling bull on 99% of these rumours.

    Interestingly enough, right around this time of the year/timeframe before release is when we started seeing the rumours for the 'Real!111!! Blood Angels Codex' that was used as a joke by the Warseer rumormongers.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 13:28:27


    Post by: H.B.M.C.


    Then you are being needlessly dismissive.

    I can't speak for the Ghost Knights or the Inquisitorial aspects, but a lot of what you're seeing with the GK stuff (weapons, powers, even the names of units) - they're dead on.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 13:29:20


    Post by: vaatbak


    JohnHwangDD wrote:Where's the DreadKnight with the KnightLights for KnightFight? Is it just a regular Dread?

    And the Stormies? Where?

    Meh.


    *cough* nemsis dreadnought *cough*


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 13:31:02


    Post by: Mr Hyena


    I'm amazed at peoples criticisms of this 'Codex' atm; we don't have much confirmation and yet people have already made up their mind?


    I can't see why GK players would be extremely disappointed at this moment; but I can say it doesn't look brilliant if true for the =I= players.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 13:31:43


    Post by: Kanluwen


    H.B.M.C. wrote:Then you're a bigger fool than I imagined.

    I can't speak for the Ghost Knights or the Inquisitorial aspects, but a lot of what you're seeing with the GK stuff (weapons, powers, even the names of units) - they're dead on.

    With the sheer amount of stupidity we're seeing here, you'll understand if I don't believe in a codex where we're getting reports of Jokaero being present.

    Or where Assassins use no FOC slot and have the statlines of Phoenix Lords.

    And this kind of codex creep? This is only something you'd have seen from Pete Haines. The man couldn't write a balanced army book to save his life.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 13:32:37


    Post by: Mr Hyena


    Eh, I'm fine with the assassins as long as they're still limited to Inquisitors. Gives a pure Inq army a bit of punch. And they're costly too.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 13:40:25


    Post by: Frazzled


    Modquisitioin on. Everyone needs to remember Dakka Rule #1 is in force here. Politeness is required.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 13:41:14


    Post by: H.B.M.C.


    Oh honestly...




    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 13:42:09


    Post by: Destrado


    Kanluwen wrote:
    And this kind of codex creep? This is only something you'd have seen from Pete Haines. The man couldn't write a balanced army book to save his life.


    Especially if by some amazing coincidence he was writing a codex for his own army.

    Some of the statlines are way off the charts, I'll agree with Kan on that. And I hope some of the rumours aren't true, but H.B.M.C.'s insistence seems to say otherwise, so I'm waiting for the codex before voicing my opinion.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 14:14:54


    Post by: grobbicull


    I am just looking to clarify: you can take an infinite number of Henchman mobs? So suck it up and put in 200pts of grey knights and you have an inquisition army.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 14:44:35


    Post by: Iago


    So far that seems to be the case for the henchmen mobs.

    The ignore shaken stunned power "fortitude" is a defacto +5pts on all tanks.

    Personally I can see a lot more playability with this book than the current one.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 14:47:38


    Post by: rodgers37


    Has there been much rumoured about Assassins?
    I would quite like to play an army with as many Assassins as possible, but guess it will be same as last dex, and you can only use 4 at most? (1 special, and 3 of the death cult? Could you use both of them, or was it one of other?)
    Thanks


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 14:54:53


    Post by: Just Dave


    Kanluwen wrote:I'm pretty much calling bull on 99% of these rumours.

    Interestingly enough, right around this time of the year/timeframe before release is when we started seeing the rumours for the 'Real!111!! Blood Angels Codex' that was used as a joke by the Warseer rumormongers.


    I wouldn't call it bull on anywhere near 99% of these rumours, but - no offense Iago - I'm taking many of the stat-lines and points costs with a handful of salt. I think the FoC and some of the abilities sound pretty damn accurate, but much of the detail I'm not near convinced by.
    I was also thinking that it may be a bit early for 'solid' rumours, but such things don't exactly follow a schedule, so I'll wait and see...


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 15:19:52


    Post by: ColdSadHungry


    What does JOTWW do? Sorry, but i don't know much about space wolves.

    Also, has anyone actually seen the part that says 'X special character allows you to take such and such as troops' and 'Y special character allows other types as troops'? Because I don't find that bit to be clear to be honest.

    Then, upgrading to halberds gives initiative +1. That's cool but it also means that ALL of my current PAGK are upgraded already and that to field none upgraded PAGK, I will have to buy new ones. Im not happy about that at all. Needless to say, Im pretty sure that all of my TAGK will fall victim to the same type of problem.

    All in all, the new codex looks quite interesting. I'm disappointed that GK have lost some of their elite feel with no WS5 and seemingly no str 6 NFW. The new shrouding rule doesn't look as good either. But all the psychic powers look good and the librarian sounds awesome! It just feels that GK have lost some guaranteed eliteness and only gained in it's place potential eliteness in the form of psychic powers.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 15:22:29


    Post by: Just Dave


    JotWW = Models that are hit take an initiative test (roll a D6, if under initiative the you've passed). If you fail the initiative test you're removed from play. No Eternal Warrior, nothing.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 15:28:12


    Post by: Lord_Astaroth


    Kanluwen wrote:I'm pretty much calling bull on 99% of these rumours.

    Interestingly enough, right around this time of the year/timeframe before release is when we started seeing the rumours for the 'Real!111!! Blood Angels Codex' that was used as a joke by the Warseer rumormongers.
    '

    Though some of it happens to look odd/overpowered, just think what happened when the latest Imperial Guard and Blood Angels books came out. They seemed very odd. Think of it. "Wait, you mean they get SQUADS of Leman Russ tanks and they are a single heavy support choice?"

    Also with Coded: Blood Angels, "Land Raiders as troops transports! HA! Even GW isn't that greedy!"

    I'd say that the detail sounds pretty believable in the age of the super codex that we've been seeing lately. Some rules just seem silly until they become mainstream. We'll just have to wait and see.



    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 15:28:18


    Post by: BrassScorpion


    Just Dave wrote:JotWW = Models that are hit take an initiative test (roll a D6, if under initiative the you've passed). If you fail the initiative test you're removed from play. No Eternal Warrior, nothing.
    For fans of Norse mythology, the effect is more than hinted at in the name of the spell. At the battle of Ragnarok, Odin is swallowed by the Fenris Wolf (sometimes spelled Fenrir Wolf), a monster so big when it opens its jaws wide the bottom jaw touches the Earth and the upper jaw touches the Moon. Odin didn't get a saving throw either.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 15:34:09


    Post by: ColdSadHungry


    JOTWW - wow! That's pretty awesome then since it's a flamer template psychic ability. Thanks for the info Dave.

    I bet only the librarian has it, or a special character. I'm hoping, wildly that at least some kind of troop has access to it, heh.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 15:35:47


    Post by: Pyriel-


    Seriously? Space Marine units all based on one identical model is that hard of a foreign concept for you?
    It appears to be 3 units based on Power Armoured Gray Knights (Strike, Purgation, Purifier). For reference, Vanilla space marines have 5 (Command, Sternguard, Vanguard, Tactical, Devastator).
    I am sure there will be a piece of wargear you will get to model on Justicars with the Teleporter for their squad, much like you can model other upgrades.

    One quick look at my sig and you would never have to ask such a question in the first place, duh.

    Vanguards and sternguards look pretty different from standard tacs due to the massive wargear loadout.

    I have a hard time imagining strike and purifyer squads differing anything from purgation squads with only 2 weapons or squads only differing by their psychic power usage for that matter.
    Lets hope the rumored insane detail level on the upcoming GK minis is enough to separate the squads by tangible means.

    Scout USR a Strike squad. They 30" move during the scout movment phase. GK player goes first. Move squad 12" (Jump Inf) Assault 6"

    That's a 48" First turn assault. Who's affraid of IG mech now?

    IF it will ever be allowed. I have a hard time seeing a 48´first turn charge being in the codex.
    And even if, what happens when all those IG mech pies get first turn?

    So, can we expect this to be the way all squads increase their str, or will there also be a NFW upgrade (Halberd?) option, for a total of 7str?

    The Halbred adds +1I

    In what squads and for what individual point cost?
    It seems the GKs will cost 20p a piece naked but still retain their current 25p cost with halbeards.

    Then again all old PAGK models come with a halbeard so there will be an abundance of those.

    I'm thinking The Summoning, followed by Sanc. Protected squad where ever you need it.

    I´m thinking the summoning followed by mishap

    Does anyone know if the GKs will get a version of the accurate DS the BAs get like only scatter 1D6 when they are teleporting?
    If not then the summoning power simply looks like a way to gain last attempt objective grabbing and/or desperate removal of units from unfavorable cc.
    The risk of scattering badly will make it least to say impractical in offensive usage.

    I don't think that anyone will care what the official GW spelling is (British) when they can use their own language with equal ease.

    Exactly! Armour - armor, grey - gray, who gives a crap, we all know and understand what is being said.

    Librarian in a inquisitor squad with mystics, means you could summon a squad and never have it scatter.

    True but the point cost will mean the army will kind of have to be built around this one time gimmic.
    If you really want a powerful glass cannon libby then there go 215 points and on top of that you add an inquisitor (and waste a slot) with henchmen (even more points) plus you need an additional means to get them to where the summoning should take place and on the exact right turn.
    That is some steep price to pay just in order to make sure one squad can pop up and do some shooting.

    As I said, doesnt seem to be overly powerful in the end, mostly a desperate (risky) means to get out from bad cc or a tight spot or an all or nothing objective grabbing the last turn.

    -Inquisitor that unlocks the Allies rule again (an alternative to Coteaz)

    I´m glad the ally rule is out, it would open up a big can of imbalance and abuse otherwise.
    Imagine a paladin squad cc defending a super shooty IG line or something other, mixing the best of two codexes.

    I... I just checked my ork codex. It's... they wear 'Eavy Armour! I Never Knew! I thought they had armor The Whole Time! X_x

    Hehe, "powwa armour" ftw!

    A better analogy would be Nobz, which are found in almost any serious Ork list. TH/SS Terms + Land Raider + Vulkan run 650ish and are pretty common too...and they only have one wound and can't allocate, lack a better/free EA and aren't WS5. I've never seen Plasma Cannon Long Fangs. Ever. But if they brought those, I imagine they wouldn't laugh much considering their 200 point unit can't blow up/stop a Land Raider.

    The big difference is that all those examples cost LESS then the GK ditto plus have cheaper support units that can take care of the weaknesses of the mentioned squad examples.
    A gK army is pretty much stuck with super expensive or extremely small units.

    I myself often run 6 plasmacannons in a standard army, it absolutely murders everything power armoured and even hordy if properly supported.
    It is kind of like facing a lot of dreadnoughts when you play a Vulkan army, you pretty much sigh knowing the game will be a one sided boring walkover for you.


    Well, that's a poor analogy as;

    Vanguard only have one wound
    Vanguard don't have FNP and a 2+ save
    Vanguard aren't WS 5
    Vanguard don't have an 4++
    Vanguard don't come with power weapons

    Not that poor.
    Vanguards dont cost an arm and a leg naked.
    They can all gear out uniquely.
    They have a 3+ inv save option.
    They can be a great deal more mobile.
    They have the means to assault instantly not wasting time taking fire.

    But that was not my point, it was that the oh so awesome paladins will cost an insane amount of points when properly geared out OR be forced to be used in very small squads and they still have a big weakness that can easily make them into an eggs-in-basket unit and not a overpowered unit present in each and every GK army.

    Wow. This codex might actually be even weaker than Chaos Daemons while suffering from essentially every same weakness. So you'll have a small army with storm bolters and glorified assault cannons that is reasonably good in close combat but will leave the table with zero points in very short order against mech armies (90% of the armies out there).

    Someone has definately watered down the psychic powers. They're all pretty crap. Who would want to deep strike on top of Grey Knights when they can be tabled from the other side of the table? The immunity to shakes and stuns was supposed to be automatic for all GK vehicles. Now it's a psychic test every turn. On top of that they were rumoured to have the bonus armour psychic power which would've actually made them contenders. The summoning is a joke for two reasons, firstly because only one model in the army can have it (so you just push against that model) and secondly because it can't pull GK units from close combat.

    Paladins are a bad version of the economically priced eternal warrior Bloodcrushers. The Dread Knight is the 'loyal' version of the Soul Grinder. This codex reeks of lack of imagination.

    I agree. The codex smells of the same uncompetitiveness like the current one albeit with tons of more options and fun units but still with every unit being priced through the roof if geared out to actually do something useful.

    I still have no clue what this army is supposed to do vs all the mech heavy builds out there except pack up and go home.
    Shooting S7 weapons at heavy armour or chasing them around on foot doesnt exactly look like a balanced codex.
    Neather is it balanced when a lame cheap-O eldar HQ can stop all GK psychic powers in its tracks.

    No one's excited about the much needed addition of techmarines?

    I still dont get it, whats the deal with GK techmarines in an army that can hardly afford vehicles?
    You dont take a tecchie to be able to repair that one landriader, you take him and put him amongst a group of landraiders, razorbacks and dreads so that he can walk around repairing things every turn but those vehicle parks will never see the tabletop in a GK army due to the insane point cost of everything.

    That would leave us with a specialist army that does what it set out to do really well, without messing around with conventional thinking.

    Specialist armies are never seen in tournaments. So I hope this one wont end up as the same lame weak army the current one is, only usable vs a select few opponents.
    All the wargear options arent covered yet so there is still a chance the GK codex will be able to stand up to mech armies (90% of all armies that is).

    The Psychic Powers seem powerful indeed; one that creates Str6 + 2D6 against vehicles.

    Pretty useless when you still have to footslog and chase armour with expensive infantry.
    How again are you ever going to use those awesome vehicle CC killing powers against eldar, dark eldar and tau that all have fast skimmers only hit on 6+ that can shoot the holy crap out of your chasing infantry in return?
    There are lots of dark holes of unknown rules still in the codex so there might very well be balance in the end but for now it looks kind of bleak and over specialized.

    Paladins are not a Weaker Version of Bloodcrushers; they're 2+4++, armed with Nemesis Force Weapons etc. If anything, they're a stronger version of Nobs.

    And more expensive too.
    At least you can easily mass nobs and are pretty guaranteed to give them free 4+ cover saves vs all shooting due to the mass of cheap boys that can cover them.

    Judging from what is being reported so far, Grey Knights will only really have a problem against Mechanised or maybe Eldar.

    So they will have a hard time against 95% of all other armies out there. Wonderful!

    I wonder what Inquisitor Valeria's model will look like. I hope it isn't one of those incredibly douchey models that they use for the female WH inquisitors right now, because those are just... wrong, with their ridiculous hair and angular man-faces.

    Hehe the hair dos are pretty awesome
    I´we been wanting to get one of those minis to paint up for ages now.
    The rumored detail level of the GK army models will have me buy bucketloads of them no matter if the codex is playable/balanced or not.

    Personally I can see a lot more playability with this book than the current one.

    Balanced playability? Competitive?
    Damn I hope you are right since GKs just scream "fun and awesome" to me.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 15:40:42


    Post by: Puscifer


    I see a lot of fancy stuff from these Rumors and a lot of units buffing each other and a load of heroes that change the way you play and a couple of units of super heavy infantry and some robots...

    Yup - it all looks a bit Menoth to me.

    Note: I know 40K has been out a lot longer than WM, but this is just my opinion that whoever wrote the codex might have been playing a little too much WM.

    [Thumb - POM.jpg]


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 15:46:11


    Post by: Redbeard


    Pyriel- wrote:How on earth will this codex stand a chance vs a mech list like IG or anything else with good AV mech for that matter


    How on earth will a chaos daemon army stand a chance against this codex? If you show up with daemons, do you just auto-lose to grey knights?


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 15:47:40


    Post by: olympia


    Redbeard wrote:
    Pyriel- wrote:How on earth will this codex stand a chance vs a mech list like IG or anything else with good AV mech for that matter


    How on earth will a chaos daemon army stand a chance against this codex? If you show up with daemons, do you just auto-lose to grey knights?


    Generally yes. But it's about the same with current book isn't it?


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 15:50:29


    Post by: bhsman


    I'm tentatively optimistic about the codex so far. Aside from the "Dreadknight" I'm feeling good about just about every unit entry so far:

    -Purgation Squads (if the "Auto Cannons on crack" profile from BoK pans out) will do well with AT and little tricks involving LoS with their psychic power

    -The general psychic powers in general seem really nice (Hammerhand + Mind Blades = wounding on a 2+ again for most units), and Warp Rift and Sanctuary are probably my favorite powers as they're rumored.

    -I would like the anti-horde power of the rumored Purifier squads to be more of a general ability rather than one on a Elite slot, as it specializes the unit a bit, but that said they could probably tear through a unit of Boyz/Gaunts at a time.

    -Even if Coteaz is the only character to unlock Henchmen as Troops, it looks as though the sheer variety of choices available to those units will outweigh the vanilla-ness of the HQ. I wonder if they'll make Inquisitors a 1-3 choice...

    Going to wait for more before deciding how to build the army but I think I've decided to restart my old Ordo Malleus list.

    PS - To those of you who own the old PAGK models, I wouldn't worry about not having an all-halberd unit. Anyone who would seriously complain about you using it isn't worth playing against anyways.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 15:59:42


    Post by: Just Dave


    bhsman wrote:I'm tentatively optimistic about the codex so far. Aside from the "Dreadknight" I'm feeling good about just about every unit entry so far.


    Well, if you're talking about Competitiveness, the Dreadknight apparently has T7, W4, 2+/4++ which to me sound very good; like a Wraithlord but much better.


    @Pyriel - personally, I'm not going to both debating the competitiveness of the Grey Knights with you; you seem to have made up your mind all ready IMO and the details are still in the dark.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 16:07:40


    Post by: daedalus-templarius


    T7 W4 2+/4++ MC?

    Yikes, sounds terrifying. Can't wait!


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 16:13:04


    Post by: BladeWalker


    Is there rumored to be a new kit for the Dreadknight? Is there a rundown of rumored new models that I am missing? Thanks for all the info!

    The rules as a whole seem to make a balanced army, anyone looking for the next "broken" codex probably won't find it with GK. They will just probably have the "wtf is that" shock value that Daemons had at first, then everyone will learn the tricks and how to counter them. Eagerly awaiting pics of new plastics, appreciative of the rumors so far.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 16:14:23


    Post by: BrassScorpion


    Is there rumored to be a new kit for the Dreadknight?
    Oh, yeah.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 16:16:11


    Post by: AgeOfEgos


    Pyriel- wrote:
    Not that poor.
    Vanguards dont cost an arm and a leg naked.
    They can all gear out uniquely.
    They have a 3+ inv save option.
    They can be a great deal more mobile.
    They have the means to assault instantly not wasting time taking fire.

    But that was not my point, it was that the oh so awesome paladins will cost an insane amount of points when properly geared out OR be forced to be used in very small squads and they still have a big weakness that can easily make them into an eggs-in-basket unit and not a overpowered unit present in each and every GK army.



    They cost...60 points more than a regular Terminator Assault Unit. If you asked any Vanilla Marine player if they would trade;

    A 3++ for a 4++
    Get two wounds with unique allocation
    Get a FNP option
    WS 5
    Force Weapons
    Access to unique wargear

    ....well as a Vanilla marine player, I say yes. I don't know how often you've been exposed to unique Nobz but I can tell you a 4+/4+ unique allocation makes them all but immune to small arms fire. The Paladins will have a 2+/4+ allocation status....which means the bane of Terminators everywhere (Dakka fire) will be severely hampered with these guys. AP weaponry don't kill TH/SS Terms---dakka fire does. I've rarely lost my terms to melta/plasma----but have lost them many times to making 15 saves. The Paladins will handle that quite well.

    I have no idea on the analogy you're making to Vanguard. They are two completely different units.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 16:26:47


    Post by: Kanluwen


    Lord_Astaroth wrote:
    Kanluwen wrote:I'm pretty much calling bull on 99% of these rumours.

    Interestingly enough, right around this time of the year/timeframe before release is when we started seeing the rumours for the 'Real!111!! Blood Angels Codex' that was used as a joke by the Warseer rumormongers.
    '

    Though some of it happens to look odd/overpowered, just think what happened when the latest Imperial Guard and Blood Angels books came out. They seemed very odd. Think of it. "Wait, you mean they get SQUADS of Leman Russ tanks and they are a single heavy support choice?"

    The difference is we'd pretty much known that "Leman Russ Squadrons" would be in as a heavy support choice. The push towards vehicles that we were seeing elsewhere guaranteed it.

    Also with Codex: Blood Angels, "Land Raiders as troops transports! HA! Even GW isn't that greedy!"

    Land Raiders as troop transports isn't that farfetched, provided they're in an army that isn't known for fielding Terminators outside of(much like the Blood Angels are, actually...) teleport assaults.

    Crazy, right?

    I'd say that the detail sounds pretty believable in the age of the super codex that we've been seeing lately. Some rules just seem silly until they become mainstream. We'll just have to wait and see.


    I really wouldn't call this the "age of the super codex". We've yet to see anything that even remotely comes close to Pete Haines' loving "Iron Warriors" army list.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 16:32:41


    Post by: JohnHwangDD


    DarknessEternal wrote:
    Vhalyar wrote:
    8 8 4 4 2 7 4 10 4+ Assassin stat line.

    This makes Phoenix Lords cry.


    Presumably, Exarchs, Autarchs, and Phoenix Lords will see a major boost in power to match...


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 16:45:12


    Post by: Gibbsey


    Definatly going to be building a super terminator list...

    although i would of likes IST's or Penal legions as options...

    or even better a "reverse allies" type rule called something like "requisition" where Inquisitors could take options from other imperial codexes Foc slots...


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 16:45:12


    Post by: Kurb


    Just Dave wrote:Btw, judging from what some have said and the naming and design of some things...

    ... Tenner that this is a Matt Ward Codex.


    This makes me sad :(


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 16:51:49


    Post by: AgeOfEgos


    Kurb wrote:
    Just Dave wrote:Btw, judging from what some have said and the naming and design of some things...

    ... Tenner that this is a Matt Ward Codex.


    This makes me sad :(


    He's their 2nd best Dex writer behind Kelly IMHO. Worst case scenario---it's Cruddance.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 16:54:00


    Post by: Just Dave


    I dunno, personally I prefer Cruddance. Then again, this is like the lesser of two evils and this isn't the time for such a discussion...


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 16:55:16


    Post by: pretre


    Gibbsey wrote:Definatly going to be building a super terminator list...

    although i would of likes IST's or Penal legions as options...

    or even better a "reverse allies" type rule called something like "requisition" where Inquisitors could take options from other imperial codexes Foc slots...


    That's what they had before and it had plenty of unintended consequences as time moved along, just as the ally rules did. I severely doubt it.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 17:02:27


    Post by: Tanus


    There are Inquisitorial henchmen with access to Lascannons, Multimeltas and heavy flamers that are essentially twin-linked. As in, they come equipped with all 3.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 17:15:12


    Post by: Magister187


    It also remains to be seen how the Warrior Acolyte henchmen can be armed. If they can have melta guns and are reasonably costed (12 + 10 for MG maybe). You could use MSU Henchmen in Chimeras as your anti-tank.
    Besides, imo squads of 4x Psycannons that can move 30" to get side shots seem like they would be adequate vs most mech lists. Maybe not ones with loads of AV14, but that is pretty rare as is.

    It feels like their lack of anti-tank seems to be exaggerated at this stage, before we can see a full list of war gear and options.

    I am, at this stage, excited about the army getting a reboot; considering the current GK army has so few options (not competitive options, I mean options period) that I am happy with the news so far.


    Btw, I think Paladins are very reasonably priced at 55 points. Pricey for sure, but could form possibly the best Deathstar unit in the game, with almost none of the weaknesses of normal terminators but with substantially more options available, including Holocaust/FNP to mitigate swarms, 4+ save and wound games to mitigate power weapon/plasma spam. I really can't wait to see all the options available to them.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 17:16:57


    Post by: Mr Hyena


    grobbicull wrote:I am just looking to clarify: you can take an infinite number of Henchman mobs? So suck it up and put in 200pts of grey knights and you have an inquisition army.


    Why would an Ordo Hereticus army take Grey Knights? Or has the fluff/rules changed on this? I hope we get Inquisitorial Stormtroopers; they're needed.


    That's what they had before and it had plenty of unintended consequences as time moved along, just as the ally rules did. I severely doubt it.


    What was so bad about the allies rule? It seems to me that *so far* they've simply not bothered to replace the ally rule properly (as in; forcing the =I= to rely on Grey Knights)


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 17:19:38


    Post by: Tanus


    Magister187 wrote:It also remains to be seen how the Warrior Acolyte henchmen can be armed. If they can have melta guns and are reasonably costed (12 + 10 for MG maybe). You could use MSU Henchmen in Chimeras as your anti-tank.
    Besides, imo squads of 4x Psycannons that can move 30" to get side shots seem like they would be adequate vs most mech lists. Maybe not ones with loads of AV14, but that is pretty rare as is.

    It feels like their lack of anti-tank seems to be exaggerated at this stage, before we can see a full list of war gear and options.



    A warrior acolyte with a melta gun is considerably less than 22 pts


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 17:21:42


    Post by: warboss


    can anyone of you commonwealth folks who have seen the codex (hey, what's up with the leaks only in canada and oz?!?!?) confirm what weapons the grey knight special characters are using? i've got an inquisitor rex model that i'd love to use as a grand master or inquisitor lord without worrying about opponent's permission. any of them specifically have a sword and storm shield or at least the options to upgrade to it?


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 17:39:22


    Post by: ColdSadHungry


    H.B.M.C. wrote:

    And as people have correctly guessed what the common name in this Codex is (Nemesis), compared to the BA Codex where it was Blood, I'll repost what I had in the last thread - the weapon that the Dreadknight has - and you can resume guessing the rest:

    "Nemesis ****fist"

    Guessing this weapon name will likely reveal the writer of this Codex at the same time, and as I've said before, it ain't Kelly.


    Since I'm relatively new to the hobby, I don't know who he may mean but does anyone else have any idea? It seems that guessing the author is one of the big unknowns that everybody wants an answer to, including me even though I won't know what it actually means whoever it is lol!


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 17:43:03


    Post by: pretre


    Mr Hyena wrote:

    That's what they had before and it had plenty of unintended consequences as time moved along, just as the ally rules did. I severely doubt it.


    What was so bad about the allies rule? It seems to me that *so far* they've simply not bothered to replace the ally rule properly (as in; forcing the =I= to rely on Grey Knights)

    Nothing about it being bad, but plenty of unintended consequences.

    The allies went from weak in 3rd ed to very powerful with the addition of the 5th Ed Guard codex. (Full Platoons with better Chimeras could be allied now.)

    Where as the original C:WH and C: DH had Guard/SM as a sideline that could be added to your army in small amounts, the consequence of the allies rule in 5th ed was that that ratio completely changed. Again, not saying that's bad, but certainly not intended by the original codex.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 17:44:20


    Post by: AgeOfEgos


    ColdSadHungry wrote:
    H.B.M.C. wrote:

    And as people have correctly guessed what the common name in this Codex is (Nemesis), compared to the BA Codex where it was Blood, I'll repost what I had in the last thread - the weapon that the Dreadknight has - and you can resume guessing the rest:

    "Nemesis ****fist"

    Guessing this weapon name will likely reveal the writer of this Codex at the same time, and as I've said before, it ain't Kelly.


    Since I'm relatively new to the hobby, I don't know who he may mean but does anyone else have any idea? It seems that guessing the author is one of the big unknowns that everybody wants an answer to, including me even though I won't know what it actually means whoever it is lol!



    If it has a repeating name in front of weapons, it's Ward. For example, the Blood Angels;

    They don't have power fists, they have Blood Fists.
    They don't have lightning claws, they have Blood Talons.
    They don't have dark skies, they have Skies of Blood.
    They don't eat Crispy Rice before going on their spearhead, they eat Bloody Rice.
    etc.

    Seems like if it is him, he's taking some cues from Kelly in his elite unit construction (Multiple wounds, unique gear). Good for him, as I stated earlier---I consider him their 2nd best.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 17:45:05


    Post by: Gibbsey


    Now the Apothicary upgrade to the 2 wound terminators:

    1.Its 75pts to add the apothecary right? not to upgrade i hope..
    2. is it limited to 1 per squad?
    3.Same stats as the rest of the unit?


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 17:53:34


    Post by: bhsman


    Just Dave wrote:Well, if you're talking about Competitiveness, the Dreadknight apparently has T7, W4, 2+/4++ which to me sound very good; like a Wraithlord but much better.


    Oh I'm not worried about its competitiveness, going by those stats, I meant more in the "This is really, really, really dumb in concept."


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 17:55:40


    Post by: Kurgash


    Aren't the jokaero *sp?* apparently Obliterator equivalents in terms of the amount of weapons they carry?


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 17:56:17


    Post by: Mr Hyena


    The presence of the Ordo Xenos Inquisitor makes me wonder if we'll get an Codex: Ordo Xenos or Codex: Deathwatch in a while.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 17:58:01


    Post by: pretre


    Mr Hyena wrote:The presence of the Ordo Xenos Inquisitor makes me wonder if we'll get an Codex: Ordo Xenos or Codex: Deathwatch in a while.


    Why would they have overlap? Seems like this would indicate just the opposite. This is GW throwing Xenos and Hereticus a bone since they won't get any other support. (My guess.)


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 18:02:51


    Post by: R3con


    I'll just be happy to unpack the callidus assassin again!


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 18:10:32


    Post by: Tanus


    Kurgash wrote:Aren't the jokaero *sp?* apparently Obliterator equivalents in terms of the amount of weapons they carry?


    Yes, they also add a random upgrade to the entire unit


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 18:12:49


    Post by: Kanluwen


    Tanus wrote:
    Kurgash wrote:Aren't the jokaero *sp?* apparently Obliterator equivalents in terms of the amount of weapons they carry?


    Yes, they also add a random upgrade to the entire unit

    Uh, what?

    Jokaero are just orangutan mechanics-- IN SPAAAAAAAAAAACE!


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 18:16:49


    Post by: Tanus


    Kanluwen wrote:
    Tanus wrote:
    Kurgash wrote:Aren't the jokaero *sp?* apparently Obliterator equivalents in terms of the amount of weapons they carry?


    Yes, they also add a random upgrade to the entire unit

    Uh, what?

    Jokaero are just orangutan mechanics-- IN SPAAAAAAAAAAACE!


    Space monkeys with death rays that can count as either a Lascannon, Multi-Melta, or Heavy Flamer. The also add a random upgrade like giving the unit rending or increasing the range of all weapons by 12"


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 18:22:10


    Post by: ColdSadHungry


    Ah, so it's matt ward huh?

    Well, if he wrote the blood angels codex, I wonder how cheesy codex grey knights will be? Blood angels seems to get a lot of negative comments.

    I just hope that Ward didn't think, 'I'll learn from my mistakes' and end up under powering Grey Knights because people seem to think that blood angels are overpowered.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 18:23:14


    Post by: Kanluwen


    And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why I call BS on these rumours.

    Why the feth are the Jokaero in the Grey Knights codex? Why they feth are they in an Imperial codex, at all?

    The only mention previous was that the Jokaero were at one point known to be "masterful craftsmen, with some Inquisitors bearing digital weapons that were on par with the Jokaero's creations".


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 18:24:34


    Post by: DarknessEternal


    JohnHwangDD wrote:
    DarknessEternal wrote:
    Vhalyar wrote:
    8 8 4 4 2 7 4 10 4+ Assassin stat line.

    This makes Phoenix Lords cry.


    Presumably, Exarchs, Autarchs, and Phoenix Lords will see a major boost in power to match...

    Dark Eldar implies there's zero chance of that.

    Archons and Incubi Phoenix Lord didn't get a boost.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 18:25:16


    Post by: Alpharius


    I still can't believe GW's bringing back Jokaero...


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 18:36:20


    Post by: AgeOfEgos




    Blow up that Wave Serpent you damn dirty ape!


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 18:45:21


    Post by: Gitzbitah


    Oh, that's far too accurate. Remember what they did to a wolf with Canis McWolferson on a Thunderwolf with Wolfclaws.

    So we need to blend an Orangutan with an angry bobcat- Kilrathi might be a closer equivalent- from the Wing Commander movie.

    Or cut out the middle man, and paint a Wampa Orange.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 19:19:53


    Post by: Vhalyar


    Alpharius wrote:I still can't believe GW's bringing back Jokaero...

    Good thing there's already a model for them!



    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 19:27:35


    Post by: ColdSadHungry


    Are we sure that this jokaero thing isn't just based on someone asking whether jokaero are part of the henchmen retinue? Based on that rumour from a month or so back about jokaero because someone asked about digital weapons?

    Or has the jokaero actually been listed in this latest batch of more solid sounding rumours?

    I really don't want to have to field a space ape. Unless it's absolutely necessary, I won't be parting with my cash to field one of these, frankly ridiculous monkeys. I know I couldn't keep a straight face if my opponent had a few in his army because without them, his anti tank weaponry just wasn't good enough.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 19:27:47


    Post by: Revarien


    R3con wrote:I'll just be happy to unpack the callidus assassin again!


    Unpack?! Mine got a new base and new paint job... and still hasn't missed the table (in my SoB army)... she's terrifying against "Hero-Hammer" players... and can fully wipe a terminator squad in one swoop... she has never not seen the table in 1000+ points, in my games

    I just hope they either leave her as is... or improve her (beyond the statline).


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 19:28:36


    Post by: bhsman


    EDIT: Haha wow, nevermind


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 19:39:10


    Post by: JohnHwangDD


    Just Dave wrote:
    bhsman wrote:I'm tentatively optimistic about the codex so far. Aside from the "Dreadknight" I'm feeling good about just about every unit entry so far.


    Well, if you're talking about Competitiveness, the Dreadknight apparently has T7, W4, 2+/4++ which to me sound very good; like a Wraithlord but much better.


    The Wraithlord is still T8 (OMG!!!), but that 4++ will cover for a lot of sloppiness.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 20:13:40


    Post by: Alpharius


    Vhalyar wrote:
    Alpharius wrote:I still can't believe GW's bringing back Jokaero...

    Good thing there's already a model for them!



    Oh, VERY good call there!


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 21:09:57


    Post by: Mad4Minis


    bhsman wrote:Aside from the "Dreadknight" I'm feeling good about just about every unit entry so far:


    Since Im just in it for the minis, thats the unit Im looking forward to seeing most. I know the GKT plastics will be cool, thats a given. Im really hoping that the dreadknight will be well done and not just a modded SM dread. Im also hoping it doesnt have the Hulk Hogan body with midget legs that the current SM dreads have.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 21:11:16


    Post by: Kurgash


    Heard the Jokaero bit on a Fritz vid where he said it was the one thing he could disclose about the codex, a vid from back in december if I recall. Still hard to believe it's true.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 21:11:55


    Post by: Vhalyar


    And here's the "Stormtrooper" rumor for anyone who uses them:

    Warrior acolyte:

    replace laspistol and chainsword with one of...
    bolt gun
    storm bolter
    hot shot lasgun
    combi weapon
    power sword/or plasma pistol
    storm shield
    power fist

    Any can have....
    carapace
    power armor
    meltabombs


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 21:15:47


    Post by: MajorTom11


    I reserve judgement on Jokaero until I see design/new fluff. No need to gak all over them yet boys, this could turn out to be awesome! They will likely bear little resemblance to their former fluff except for a few fundamentals... So really we have no clue what we may be in for, so let's just keep our torches at the ready but unlit shall we?




    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 21:17:48


    Post by: Kanluwen


    No matter what, Jokaero are stupid. They make Vespid look cool.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 21:18:40


    Post by: pretre


    MajorTom11 wrote:I reserve judgement on Jokaero until I see design/new fluff. No need to gak all over them yet boys, this could turn out to be awesome! They will likely bear little resemblance to their former fluff except for a few fundamentals... So really we have no clue what we may be in for, so let's just keep our torches at the ready but unlit shall we?



    I am outraged at your call for cool heads and calm tone!

    We must rage at the perceived injustices contained within internet rumors and what they portend!!!


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    Kanluwen wrote:No matter what, Jokaero are stupid. They make Vespid look cool.


    The less a man makes declarative statements, the less apt he is to look foolish in retrospect.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 21:23:44


    Post by: shrike


    Kroothawk wrote:Paladins = 2 wounded terminators (they can have an apothecary in the squad)

    SS allowed? That'd be mean. 2+/3++/4+++.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 21:24:18


    Post by: MajorTom11


    Kanluwen wrote:No matter what, Jokaero are stupid. They make Vespid look cool.




    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 21:24:49


    Post by: Kanluwen


    pretre wrote:
    MajorTom11 wrote:I reserve judgement on Jokaero until I see design/new fluff. No need to gak all over them yet boys, this could turn out to be awesome! They will likely bear little resemblance to their former fluff except for a few fundamentals... So really we have no clue what we may be in for, so let's just keep our torches at the ready but unlit shall we?



    I am outraged at your call for cool heads and calm tone!

    We must rage at the perceived injustices contained within internet rumors and what they portend!!!

    And I'm outraged that people find it acceptable for Jokaero to be in Codex: Grey Knights of all bloody places. The Imperium went out of its way to attempt to exterminate the Jokaero. Why the feth are they in the codex for one of the most fanatically loyal parts of the Imperium?



    Kanluwen wrote:No matter what, Jokaero are stupid. They make Vespid look cool.


    The less a man makes declarative statements, the less apt he is to look foolish in retrospect.

    And the less people try to justify Jokaero as being anything more than someone misinterpreting what will, quite likely, be "Jokaero Digital Weapons" the less of these crappy rumours we'll see


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 21:28:10


    Post by: pretre


    Kanluwen wrote:
    pretre wrote:
    I am outraged at your call for cool heads and calm tone!
    We must rage at the perceived injustices contained within internet rumors and what they portend!!!

    And I'm outraged that people find it acceptable for Jokaero to be in Codex: Grey Knights of all bloody places. The Imperium went out of its way to attempt to exterminate the Jokaero. Why the feth are they in the codex for one of the most fanatically loyal parts of the Imperium?

    Calm down, killer. I was parodying the exact kind of behavior you are exemplifying.

    One could excuse them for the same reason you could excuse Daemonhosts in Codex: Grey Knights OABP*. Inquisitors do their own thing.

    * My new favorite way to refer to the GK codex.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 21:28:23


    Post by: BrassScorpion


    Seeing the word, "ARGUMENTS" misspelled makes a lot of people cry. Computers and the Internet provide easy access to spell checking. Surely, superhuman Space Marines should know this.

    MajorTom11 wrote:


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 21:29:02


    Post by: pretre


    MajorTom11 wrote:
    Major Tom Crying


    Nicely done, sir!


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 21:30:03


    Post by: JohnHwangDD


    Vhalyar wrote:And here's the "Stormtrooper" rumor for anyone who uses them:

    Warrior acolyte:

    replace laspistol and chainsword with one of...
    bolt gun
    storm bolter
    hot shot lasgun
    combi weapon
    power sword/or plasma pistol
    storm shield
    power fist

    Any can have....
    carapace
    power armor
    meltabombs


    OK, how much are the:
    - Sisters (Bolter & PA)
    - Stormies (Carapace & hotshot lasgun)
    - Crusaders (Carapace, Storm Shield & Power Weapon)
    - Combat Servitors (Carapace & Power Fist)


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 21:31:39


    Post by: Pyriel-


    How on earth will a chaos daemon army stand a chance against this codex? If you show up with daemons, do you just auto-lose to grey knights?

    Absolutely, this, being overpowerd vs one army, is preferred to being underpowered to 9 armies.
    Deamons are what, 2-5% of all armies the normal player faces whereas mechanized cheese, eldar, tau and dark eldar is 90% so I´d rather this army was balanced to those 90% then one rarely seen army.
    Pure logic!

    But then there were (are?) rumors deamon armies will receive some form of boost if facing GK.
    They might still end up balanced.

    -The general psychic powers in general seem really nice (Hammerhand + Mind Blades = wounding on a 2+ again for most units), and Warp Rift and Sanctuary are probably my favorite powers as they're rumored.

    The way I see it the psychic powers will be balanced by only being able to take one.
    Its the only logical thing I see GW doing and still having a "lowly" pointcost of 200-300p per GK squad.

    A GK squad comes with ONE power, hammerhand being standard.
    Then you can CHANGE that power for others from a list, maybe with a point cost added to it.
    Thus if you want a S5 GK squad they wont be able to deny deepstrike or mindblade things.
    And if you want to use the force weapon ability you will have to skip using the hammerhand or whatever power you have.
    If you want to have shrouded GK squads then you will have to throw away hammerhand in exchange for shrouding etc etc.

    All in all this will make some crappy GK squads that cant really do anything except one thing.

    I´m not saying this is so and I hope more then one power can be taken so that GK squads can choose between powers every turn but I expect this to be super expensive too.


    @Pyriel - personally, I'm not going to both debating the competitiveness of the Grey Knights with you; you seem to have made up your mind all ready IMO and the details are still in the dark.

    Nope I havent, I am merely cautious on the negative side over things that sound to good to be true. When logic is applied things slide down pretty much in power.

    Is there rumored to be a new kit for the Dreadknight? Is there a rundown of rumored new models that I am missing? Thanks for all the info!

    Hope it gets released with the first wave of knights. I´m buying 3 of them right away


    ....well as a Vanilla marine player, I say yes. I don't know how often you've been exposed to unique Nobz

    lol
    I own about 7000p of marines and 3000p of orks with lots and lots of nobs and nob bikers in there so dont worry, I know all about taking care of nobs with SM and nob weaknesses.
    Lets just agree to disagreeing for now till we know more about the GK rules ok?

    Presumably, Exarchs, Autarchs, and Phoenix Lords will see a major boost in power to match...

    Oh noes, more 300+ point HQs *sigh*.
    This is turning into some form of old fantasy game with my HQ and some side riffraff vs your HQ and some assorted rabble


    Besides now when we know a little about GK psychic powers where are the inquisitor powers that are rumored to be really beefed up?
    So far I havent seen any beefed up psychic powers except one but those were for GKs.

    There are Inquisitorial henchmen with access to Lascannons, Multimeltas and heavy flamers that are essentially twin-linked. As in, they come equipped with all 3.

    Would those be the jokaero mini-obliterators?
    Probably some fragile easy to kill glasscannon minis for 50p a piece I guess.
    Now wonder if they look like orangutangs with obliterator gear on them

    It feels like their lack of anti-tank seems to be exaggerated at this stage, before we can see a full list of war gear and options.

    Dunno, relying on S7 shooting weapons to crack tanks seems to be a pretty desperate measure in my opinion.

    Wonder if all the weird henchmen options will get minis and be released with the first wave or if all henchmen already exist in the forms of older inquisitor retinues.
    Would be a pretty expensive endeavor to buy 10-20 metal crusader minis for your henchmen squads.

    Btw, I think Paladins are very reasonably priced at 55 points. Pricey for sure, but could form possibly the best Deathstar unit in the game, with almost none of the weaknesses of normal terminators but with substantially more options available, including Holocaust/FNP to mitigate swarms, 4+ save and wound games to mitigate power weapon/plasma spam. I really can't wait to see all the options available to them.

    Probably vanguard clones, you can give them hammers at 30p a piece etc etc and end up with a 1000p unit so they will probably be used "naked" with just one or two wargears added, just like vanguards are...whenever they are in use that is.
    Otherwise they would indeed be almost game breaking.

    A warrior acolyte with a melta gun is considerably less than 22 pts

    What bothers me the most is do you NEED to pollute a GK army with inquisitors and henchmen in order to stand a balanced chance vs mech line armies or can both pure GK as well as mixed GK/=I= as well as pure =I= work balanced on their own?

    Space monkeys with death rays that can count as either a Lascannon, Multi-Melta, or Heavy Flamer. The also add a random upgrade like giving the unit rending or increasing the range of all weapons by 12"

    Geez, range 18-ish heavy flamers?
    I dont buy that one.

    The only mention previous was that the Jokaero were at one point known to be "masterful craftsmen, with some Inquisitors bearing digital weapons that were on par with the Jokaero's creations".

    Yeah, like locked up hi-tech craftsmen forging digital weapons and such stuff, not battlefield monsters in walking gorilla armour suits with heavy weapons on their shoulder mounts

    I really don't want to have to field a space ape. Unless it's absolutely necessary, I won't be parting with my cash to field one of these, frankly ridiculous monkeys. I know I couldn't keep a straight face if my opponent had a few in his army because without them, his anti tank weaponry just wasn't good enough.

    Well based on the ridiculous beast-henchmen crap of hydras, deamon dogs and mutated floating shrimp dark eldar got I dont rule out space apes for the GK codex

    A DE beast army vs a =I= henchmen army would be a very funny sight.

    Unpack?! Mine got a new base and new paint job... and still hasn't missed the table (in my SoB army)... she's terrifying against "Hero-Hammer" players... and can fully wipe a terminator squad in one swoop... she has never not seen the table in 1000+ points, in my games

    How the heck do you auto-wipe a termie squad with a calluidus???

    The Wraithlord is still T8 (OMG!!!), but that 4++ will cover for a lot of sloppiness.

    And the 2+ save will cover for missile hits contrary to the wraithlords 3+ save.

    Since Im just in it for the minis, thats the unit Im looking forward to seeing most. I know the GKT plastics will be cool, thats a given. Im really hoping that the dreadknight will be well done and not just a modded SM dread. Im also hoping it doesnt have the Hulk Hogan body with midget legs that the current SM dreads have.

    Hmm, when I think about it, isnt the dreadknight supposed to be some sort of psychically controlled construct?
    If so maybe the dreadknights big weakness will be that is requires a "handler" in the form of a GK model walking next to it...just like the techmarine and thunderfire cannon.
    If the "handler" is killed which is pretty damn easy, then the dreadknight buys it as well.

    Warrior acolyte:

    replace laspistol and chainsword with one of...
    bolt gun
    storm bolter
    hot shot lasgun
    combi weapon
    power sword/or plasma pistol
    storm shield
    power fist

    Any can have....
    carapace
    power armor
    meltabombs

    Oh crap, meaning we will get sisters of battle squads (cheap-O bolter toting power armour infantry).
    Melissia will not like this one bit, lol.

    I reserve judgement on Jokaero until I see design/new fluff. No need to gak all over them yet boys, this could turn out to be awesome! They will likely bear little resemblance to their former fluff except for a few fundamentals... So really we have no clue what we may be in for, so let's just keep our torches at the ready but unlit shall we?

    I for one really welcome them, new and weird stuff like jokaero, strange DE beasts, flying mini thawks, space marines on wolves etc, all those are bold new steps expanding the hobby. If this keeps up maybe we´ll get even more new units and minis to play with as new codexes come out.

    I look forward to the new and weird things we get to choose from with this codex.






    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 21:32:50


    Post by: pretre


    JohnHwangDD wrote:
    OK, how much are the:
    - Sisters (Bolter & PA)
    - Stormies (Carapace & hotshot lasgun)
    - Crusaders (Carapace, Storm Shield & Power Weapon)
    - Combat Servitors (Carapace & Power Fist)

    +1 JHDD

    Nice thought. Put that way, it sounds like the retinues really could be customizable.

    With one fell swoop, assuming a character that makes henchman troops and not arguing the right/wrong of that, you could have an alternate Codex: Sister of Battle, Codex: Stormtrooper IG, etc

    Hmmm. Now I'm intrigued!


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 21:34:43


    Post by: shrike


    Jokaero?! Seriously?
    first there was Canis Wolfborn the space wolf riding a thunderwolf with wolf claws, then there's DS-ing land raiders, dreads hanging onto mini-thunderhawks and psychicMC stats on a 25mm base, now grey knights are friends with highly intelligent apes building laser guns? GW- to us, it's all:
    Canis born the space riding a thunder with claws, then there's DS-ing raiders, hanging onto mini-thunder and psychic stats on a 25mm base, now grey knights are friends with highly intelligent building guns. Stop now, lest we all die (AKA you lose your market).


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 21:35:41


    Post by: MajorTom11


    BrassScorpion wrote:Seeing the word, "ARGUMENTS" misspelled makes a lot of people cry. Computers and the Internet provide easy access to spell checking. Surely, superhuman Space Marines should know this.

    MajorTom11 wrote:


    I do it to draw out the spelling bee storm troopers... it was a test, you failed!

    Ok but seriously ya I should fix that lol...

    Would you believe me if I told you it was just 1337 speak?


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 21:35:43


    Post by: pretre


    Pyriel- wrote:Wonder if all the weird henchmen options will get minis and be released with the first wave or if all henchmen already exist in the forms of older inquisitor retinues.
    Would be a pretty expensive endeavor to buy 10-20 metal crusader minis for your henchmen squads.


    I doubt it. I bet Henchmen might get a couple new models for unique types, but the glory of henchmen have been the conversion possibilities and subbing in models from other ranges and armies.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 21:36:29


    Post by: Kanluwen


    pretre wrote:
    Kanluwen wrote:
    pretre wrote:
    I am outraged at your call for cool heads and calm tone!
    We must rage at the perceived injustices contained within internet rumors and what they portend!!!

    And I'm outraged that people find it acceptable for Jokaero to be in Codex: Grey Knights of all bloody places. The Imperium went out of its way to attempt to exterminate the Jokaero. Why the feth are they in the codex for one of the most fanatically loyal parts of the Imperium?

    Calm down, killer. I was parodying the exact kind of behavior you are exemplifying.

    One could excuse them for the same reason you could excuse Daemonhosts in Codex: Grey Knights OABP*. Inquisitors do their own thing.

    * My new favorite way to refer to the GK codex.

    Daemonhosts in a codex that features the Ordo Malleus?

    Makes sense. There's radical Inquisitors within the Ordo Malleus who believe the 'weapons of the enemy should be used against them'.

    Jokaero though?
    Even the Ordo Xenos, the only branch that reasonably has a tie-in to the Jokaero, has no real ties to them outside of collecting their creations after conflicts with the Jokaero.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 21:38:05


    Post by: pretre


    Kanluwen wrote:Daemonhosts in a codex that features the Ordo Malleus?

    Makes sense. There's radical Inquisitors within the Ordo Malleus who believe the 'weapons of the enemy should be used against them'.

    Jokaero though?
    Even the Ordo Xenos, the only branch that reasonably has a tie-in to the Jokaero, has no real ties to them outside of collecting their creations after conflicts with the Jokaero.


    And there's no radical factions in Ordo Xenos? Logical extension, since all the other ordos have Radicals. Ahh, but perhaps not in Codex: GKOABP.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 21:43:54


    Post by: JohnHwangDD


    pretre wrote:
    JohnHwangDD wrote:
    OK, how much are the:
    - Sisters (Bolter & PA)
    - Stormies (Carapace & hotshot lasgun)
    - Crusaders (Carapace, Storm Shield & Power Weapon)
    - Combat Servitors (Carapace & Power Fist)

    +1 JHDD

    Nice thought. Put that way, it sounds like the retinues really could be customizable.

    With one fell swoop, assuming a character that makes henchman troops and not arguing the right/wrong of that, you could have an alternate Codex: Sister of Battle, Codex: Stormtrooper IG, etc

    Hmmm. Now I'm intrigued!


    I'm liking it.

    Sounds to me like we won't need a Sisters Codex for a few more years, as they're nothing more than mere henchwomen who follow the orders of their Inquisitor.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 21:45:03


    Post by: Pyriel-


    And I'm outraged that people find it acceptable for Jokaero to be in Codex: Grey Knights of all bloody places. The Imperium went out of its way to attempt to exterminate the Jokaero. Why the feth are they in the codex for one of the most fanatically loyal parts of the Imperium?

    Ever heard of radical inquisitors?

    Damn dude, more options make for more fun lists and games.
    Go whine at the DE beast choices, there you have some smoked-up s**t for sure.

    IG got new tanks, artillery and chimera chassi vehicles and flyers, DE got new flyers and cronos engine models, SM got thunderfires and legion units (worthless I know), marines riding animals and flying transport bricks etc.
    So GKs will also get a new thing or two so what.

    One inquisitor locks up the jokaero while another uses it in the field, just like one kills the deamonhost while another uses it just like one uses tau and ork tech and mercenaries while another kills them on sight.
    Its what makes the fluff and the game fun.

    And the less people try to justify Jokaero as being anything more than someone misinterpreting what will, quite likely, be "Jokaero Digital Weapons" the less of these crappy rumours we'll see

    Then we will make bloody internet fools out of ourselves, cry me a river, who cares.
    Rumor threads are for debating, guessing, nagging and second guessing and I for one dont have such a low self esteem that I am bothered by being wrong in advance over a rumor. Its not like I am betting heavy money on weather a book will contain an ape or not, geez.

    Even the Ordo Xenos, the only branch that reasonably has a tie-in to the Jokaero, has no real ties to them outside of collecting their creations after conflicts with the Jokaero.

    I know what you mean but dude, a small paradox like this will just have to be tolerated.
    Read up on the chaos SM codex and deamon codex, there are some real big paradoxes that according to your logic would not be allowed.
    I mean khorne bloodletters and chaos berzerkers being led and taking orders from a tzench sorceror, plague marines fighting side by side with slanesh maries etc etc
    Where is the world coming to!


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 21:49:32


    Post by: Kanluwen


    pretre wrote:
    Kanluwen wrote:Daemonhosts in a codex that features the Ordo Malleus?

    Makes sense. There's radical Inquisitors within the Ordo Malleus who believe the 'weapons of the enemy should be used against them'.

    Jokaero though?
    Even the Ordo Xenos, the only branch that reasonably has a tie-in to the Jokaero, has no real ties to them outside of collecting their creations after conflicts with the Jokaero.


    And there's no radical factions in Ordo Xenos? Logical extension, since all the other ordos have Radicals. Ahh, but perhaps not in Codex: GKOABP.


    Now you see the point I'm making really.

    What the feth do Jokaero have to do with the Grey Knights? They're not diametrically opposed to Daemons. They're not the native race of Titan or anything even remotely close to the Grey Knights.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 21:51:06


    Post by: pretre


    Kanluwen wrote:
    Now you see the point I'm making really.

    What the feth do Jokaero have to do with the Grey Knights? They're not diametrically opposed to Daemons. They're not the native race of Titan or anything even remotely close to the Grey Knights.

    And you're not railing against Ordo Xenos or Ordo Hereticus for the same reasons?


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 21:53:38


    Post by: Gibbsey


    pretre wrote:
    Kanluwen wrote:
    Now you see the point I'm making really.

    What the feth do Jokaero have to do with the Grey Knights? They're not diametrically opposed to Daemons. They're not the native race of Titan or anything even remotely close to the Grey Knights.

    And you're not railing against Ordo Xenos or Ordo Hereticus for the same reasons?


    or even demon hosts? i mean arnt grey knights opposed to fighting with an inquisitor that uses demon hosts?


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 21:56:17


    Post by: pretre


    JohnHwangDD wrote:I'm liking it.

    Sounds to me like we won't need a Sisters Codex for a few more years, as they're nothing more than mere henchwomen who follow the orders of their Inquisitor.


    lol You're just asking for trouble now.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 21:59:06


    Post by: shrike


    Jokaero are extinct apes that make stupidly advanced weapons that inquisitors sometimes use. Daemonhosts are captured daemons wich radical inquisitors sometimes use to fight it's own kind. GK won't fight with radicals, but they won't execute them. After all, they're still loyal to da emprah and hunt daemons. Jokaero? They have no ties to GK whatsoever.
    This isn't about daemonhosts anyway, it's about Jokaero.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 22:00:37


    Post by: JohnHwangDD


    pretre wrote:
    JohnHwangDD wrote:I'm liking it.

    Sounds to me like we won't need a Sisters Codex for a few more years, as they're nothing more than mere henchwomen who follow the orders of their Inquisitor.


    lol You're just asking for trouble now.


    Why?

    Is it not true?


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 22:01:53


    Post by: Kanluwen


    Gibbsey wrote:
    pretre wrote:
    Kanluwen wrote:
    Now you see the point I'm making really.

    What the feth do Jokaero have to do with the Grey Knights? They're not diametrically opposed to Daemons. They're not the native race of Titan or anything even remotely close to the Grey Knights.

    And you're not railing against Ordo Xenos or Ordo Hereticus for the same reasons?


    or even demon hosts? i mean arnt grey knights opposed to fighting with an inquisitor that uses demon hosts?

    Grey Knights can't fight with Inquisitors using Daemonhosts--or at least when Daemonhosts were introduced in Daemonhunters they couldn't.

    I'd be surprised if we didn't see the same thing, frankly.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 22:04:50


    Post by: Tanus


    Jokaero Weaponsmith: 1 3 2 3 1 3 1 8 -

    Digital Weapons
    5+ Invulnerable save

    Special Rules: Jokaero Ingenuity, Inconcievable Customisation

    JI: Can use their weapon as either a LC, MM, HF
    IC: Roll on a chart, give squad an upgrade. Modified by how many Jokaero are in the unit


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 22:04:59


    Post by: pretre


    shrike wrote:GK won't fight with radicals, but they won't execute them. After all, they're still loyal to da emprah and hunt daemons.

    Umm. The whole point of the kind of Radicals who use Daemonhosts and such is that if their true methods were exposed, they would be hunted and killed. The GK certainly wouldn't let them go.

    P 11 - C: DH - 'The creation of such blasphemous entities is enough for an Inquisitor to be declared Excommunicate Traitoris, and hunted until death by a jury of his peers.'


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 22:06:21


    Post by: Tanus


    Kanluwen wrote:
    Gibbsey wrote:
    pretre wrote:
    Kanluwen wrote:
    Now you see the point I'm making really.

    What the feth do Jokaero have to do with the Grey Knights? They're not diametrically opposed to Daemons. They're not the native race of Titan or anything even remotely close to the Grey Knights.

    And you're not railing against Ordo Xenos or Ordo Hereticus for the same reasons?


    or even demon hosts? i mean arnt grey knights opposed to fighting with an inquisitor that uses demon hosts?

    Grey Knights can't fight with Inquisitors using Daemonhosts--or at least when Daemonhosts were introduced in Daemonhunters they couldn't.

    I'd be surprised if we didn't see the same thing, frankly.


    You can take Daemonhosts in any Inquisitor's retinue


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 22:08:25


    Post by: ColdSadHungry


    So, the warrior acolyte can take bolters, power swords, power fists, storm shields and power armour.

    Does this mean that we can take space marine models and stick them in as 'henchmen'? It would be pretty funny to see an inquisitor with what looks like a space marine retinue.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 22:09:11


    Post by: AgeOfEgos


    Tanus wrote:Jokaero Weaponsmith: 1 3 2 3 1 3 1 8 -

    Digital Weapons
    5+ Invulnerable save

    Special Rules: Jokaero Ingenuity, Inconcievable Customisation

    JI: Can use their weapon as either a LC, MM, HF
    IC: Roll on a chart, give squad an upgrade. Modified by how many Jokaero are in the unit



    lol, they actually DID put them in?! Part of the Inq. retinue?


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 22:10:19


    Post by: Tanus


    ColdSadHungry wrote:So, the warrior acolyte can take bolters, power swords, power fists, storm shields and power armour.

    Does this mean that we can take space marine models and stick them in as 'henchmen'? It would be pretty funny to see an inquisitor with what looks like a space marine retinue.


    Yeah, but they'd be S3 T3


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 22:12:22


    Post by: pretre


    Guess Tanus found himself a leaked copy, since he's johnny on the spot with answered questions.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 22:13:30


    Post by: Kanluwen


    Tanus wrote:
    Kanluwen wrote:
    Gibbsey wrote:
    pretre wrote:
    Kanluwen wrote:
    Now you see the point I'm making really.

    What the feth do Jokaero have to do with the Grey Knights? They're not diametrically opposed to Daemons. They're not the native race of Titan or anything even remotely close to the Grey Knights.

    And you're not railing against Ordo Xenos or Ordo Hereticus for the same reasons?


    or even demon hosts? i mean arnt grey knights opposed to fighting with an inquisitor that uses demon hosts?

    Grey Knights can't fight with Inquisitors using Daemonhosts--or at least when Daemonhosts were introduced in Daemonhunters they couldn't.

    I'd be surprised if we didn't see the same thing, frankly.


    You can take Daemonhosts in any Inquisitor's retinue

    And I refuse to believe any of these rumours until I see the book on preorder and from the black box at my FLGS.

    Too many of the rumormongers out there latch onto these outlandish rumors rather than shoot them down, simply because they don't want to look like they don't know it.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 22:15:48


    Post by: JohnHwangDD


    Tanus wrote:
    ColdSadHungry wrote:So, the warrior acolyte can take bolters, power swords, power fists, storm shields and power armour.

    Does this mean that we can take space marine models and stick them in as 'henchmen'? It would be pretty funny to see an inquisitor with what looks like a space marine retinue.


    Yeah, but they'd be S3 T3


    So? Use the RT-era models.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 22:32:12


    Post by: DarknessEternal


    Pyriel- wrote:
    Deamons are what, 2-5% of all armies the normal player faces whereas mechanized cheese, eldar, tau and dark eldar is 90% so I´d rather this army was balanced to those 90% then one rarely seen army.


    Wait, what? Are you playing in some deformed environment where 90% of armies aren't Space Marines?


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 22:37:39


    Post by: shealyr


    I can't believe no one has mentioned it yet, but I can see Inquisitorial Henchmen as a fantastic unit in MSU armies. Assuming they work as rumored, you could have 3 PW/SS guys and 3 Melta gunner Acolytes. In a Razorback. Um... yes, please!


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 22:41:07


    Post by: AgeOfEgos


    Yeah Inq. Henchmen seem kind of neat and offer nice conversion possibilities.

    I'm really let down on the Grey Knight standard trooper though. A basic marine stat line? 1 friggin' attack? What the hell?


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 22:52:31


    Post by: Mr Hyena


    So an =I= pure army seems to be completely reliant on a 'Counts As' for Coteaz to get a full army of Inquisitorial Mobs.

    Is this their way of getting around the Allies rule? by using an ultra-customisable retinue squad?


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 22:53:12


    Post by: Pyriel-


    GK won't fight with radicals, but they won't execute them. After all, they're still loyal to da emprah and hunt daemons

    So khorne berzerkers led by a tzench sorceror is ok?
    What about bloodletters fighting alongside horrors?

    Then I guess having an ape and a deamonhost in a GK codex is no bigger a crime.

    Wait, what? Are you playing in some deformed environment where 90% of armies aren't Space Marines?

    Yes but 90% are m e c h space marines.

    I'm really let down on the Grey Knight standard trooper though. A basic marine stat line? 1 friggin' attack? What the hell?

    Maybe they´ll get an extra attack counting the stormbolter as a one arm weapon.
    Otherwise yes, they would truly suck for those points.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 22:53:43


    Post by: Manchu


    JohnHwangDD wrote:Is it not true?
    My head asplode.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 22:55:31


    Post by: Death By Monkeys


    Hmm...All this new info to me smells like the hoax BA Codex that was making the rounds before the real one was released. I could be wrong, but these rumors smell pretty funky. Kinda like someone got ahold of an early copy of the playtest rules before GW started toning things down.

    That said, if the Warrior Henchmen can get shotguns, then this could be another alternate ruleset to play Adeptus Arbites.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 22:56:26


    Post by: Kid_Kyoto


    What, no one has jumped in to mention that yellow monkeys who are good with technology is just wee tad racist?

    Why next thing you know GW will say that dark-skinned marines are deviant mutants!


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 22:57:22


    Post by: JohnHwangDD


    Manchu wrote:
    JohnHwangDD wrote:Is it not true?
    My head asplode.


    Glad to help!


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 22:57:37


    Post by: BladeWalker


    So you can have henchman squads of 10 in Power Armor with Combi-Weapons riding in Chimeras? As Troops (with SC)? With a Jokaero or two in the squad to makes them even more shooty? Dang...


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 23:06:35


    Post by: sourclams


    The Jokaero tie-in really makes no sense.

    And if Vindicaire assassins have unlimited special ammo and can be taken multiple times (can anyone confirm?), then GK won't lack for anti mech at all. 3 near-auto-hitting turbo penetrators a turn should crump AV of all values.

    If they get any real nonsense like AP1, then Vindicaires and scoring Terminators is all the entire army needs to be viable. Snipe lascannon and plasmagun toters, put mega death shots through AV14. AV10-11 spam could be an issue but if psycannons are availalbe then not even then.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 23:06:46


    Post by: Kid_Kyoto


    Jaon wrote:Is the misspelling of the word "grey" an internet meme or something...?



    As noted it's a US/UK thing.

    Moreover by the terms of the Treaty of Usenet which brought an end to the Great Flame Wars of 1994 attacking someone's spelling on the internet is not acceptable behavior. It's like making fun of your friend for saying 'um' in a sentence. None of us are writing our docteral thesis here.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 23:19:24


    Post by: Slinky


    Kid_Kyoto wrote:None of us are writing our docteral thesis here.


    Shouldn't that be doctoral?


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 23:20:33


    Post by: warboss


    Kid_Kyoto wrote:What, no one has jumped in to mention that yellow monkeys who are good with technology is just wee tad racist?

    Why next thing you know GW will say that dark-skinned marines are deviant mutants!


    i can't really tell if you're joking with that so i'll wait for a clarification.

    also, since my question got buried in pages and pages of space monkey posts, i'll ask again... any special characters with an option for a powersword and stormshield? poppa's got an inquisitor rex model he wants to use without permission!


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 23:24:09


    Post by: Jaon


    Pyriel- wrote:
    I don't think that anyone will care what the official GW spelling is (British) when they can use their own language with equal ease.

    Exactly! Armour - armor, grey - gray, who gives a crap, we all know and understand what is being said.


    Look, I was just asking why everyone is saying gray, and it was explained that is is a correct spelling. You can drop it now.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 23:54:27


    Post by: DarknessEternal


    sourclams wrote:
    And if Vindicaire assassins have unlimited special ammo and can be taken multiple times (can anyone confirm?), then GK won't lack for anti mech at all. 3 near-auto-hitting turbo penetrators a turn should crump AV of all values.

    Is the turbo-penetrator getting a boost in some way? While it can penetrate vehicles now, it's pretty unreliable.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/07 23:55:27


    Post by: Mad4Minis


    shrike wrote:Jokaero?! Seriously?
    first there was Canis Wolfborn the space wolf riding a thunderwolf with wolf claws, then there's DS-ing land raiders, dreads hanging onto mini-thunderhawks and psychicMC stats on a 25mm base, now grey knights are friends with highly intelligent apes building laser guns? GW- to us, it's all:
    Canis born the space riding a thunder with claws, then there's DS-ing raiders, hanging onto mini-thunder and psychic stats on a 25mm base, now grey knights are friends with highly intelligent building guns. Stop now, lest we all die (AKA you lose your market).


    Hence the reason I dont play the game. Well among other reasons anyways, theres very little I like about the current iteration of 40K. I use the minis for another rules system. There are several good ones out there with creation rules, allowing you to use any minis from any game in them.

    To me GW is good for minis and fun fluff, thats all.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    Pyriel- wrote:
    Is there rumored to be a new kit for the Dreadknight? Is there a rundown of rumored new models that I am missing? Thanks for all the info!

    Hope it gets released with the first wave of knights. I´m buying 3 of them right away




    Im looking forward to seeing how they do it, but Ill reserve excitement until I see the thing.

    If they make it cool and metal Ill buy 1.

    If they make it cool and plastic Ill buy 2 or 3.

    If they make it dumb Ill just sit here being not surprised at all.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 00:10:58


    Post by: JohnHwangDD


    Mad4Minis wrote:To me GW is good for minis and fun fluff, thats all.


    Im looking forward to seeing how they do it, but Ill reserve excitement until I see the thing.
    If they make it cool and metal Ill buy 1.
    If they make it cool and plastic Ill buy 2 or 3.
    If they make it dumb Ill just sit here being not surprised at all.


    Exactly. Nice minis = Buy! Bad minis = Pass.

    When the BA Codex came out, I budgeted to buy a couple SRGs. Then I saw the pics. Oh well, more money for something else!


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 00:14:19


    Post by: alphaomega


    I am liking this less and less. The thing that made me want to get involved with the Imperium was the Inquisitation. I loved the fluff etc.
    But I didn't see much point with GKs. I like the SoB (the idea of Nuns with Guns in space is awesome).
    What I am seeing from these rumours looks so much more like a version of BA (and lack the massive amount of CC they get too).
    First the ISTs have been removed. ( I know there is the "Henchmen" but not the same thing, or even close)
    Then GKs have been reduced to having stats like every other Marine.

    Just seems so Sub-par.




    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 00:35:44


    Post by: AgeOfEgos


    DarknessEternal wrote:
    sourclams wrote:
    And if Vindicaire assassins have unlimited special ammo and can be taken multiple times (can anyone confirm?), then GK won't lack for anti mech at all. 3 near-auto-hitting turbo penetrators a turn should crump AV of all values.

    Is the turbo-penetrator getting a boost in some way? While it can penetrate vehicles now, it's pretty unreliable.


    Rumor was, 4d6 rending for pen. That's a 14 on an average roll, with no rend needed.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 00:36:28


    Post by: Kid_Kyoto


    warboss wrote:
    Kid_Kyoto wrote:What, no one has jumped in to mention that yellow monkeys who are good with technology is just wee tad racist?

    Why next thing you know GW will say that dark-skinned marines are deviant mutants!


    i can't really tell if you're joking with that so i'll wait for a clarification.


    AH you must have missed the Great 'GW is Racist' Floating Flame War.

    Yellow Monkeys is an old well-known insult for Asians, especially Japanese. So orange monkeys who are good with tech but don't understand it (especially in an 80s context) are a bit suspect.

    In RT days 'Black Skin' was a chaos mutation, of course the description clearly says they mean ink black skin not African but still... And then GW recently retconed the African skinned Salamanders to ink-black mutants.

    And y'know, I would not be shocked if those really were meant as coded race jokes, GW has always had more than a little bit of the frat house (or UK equivlent) mentality.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    alphaomega wrote:I am liking this less and less. The thing that made me want to get involved with the Imperium was the Inquisitation. I loved the fluff etc.
    But I didn't see much point with GKs. I like the SoB (the idea of Nuns with Guns in space is awesome).
    What I am seeing from these rumours looks so much more like a version of BA (and lack the massive amount of CC they get too).
    First the ISTs have been removed. ( I know there is the "Henchmen" but not the same thing, or even close)
    Then GKs have been reduced to having stats like every other Marine.

    Just seems so Sub-par.




    I know, if only someone somewhere made an RPG just focused on the Inquisition!

    I'd buy all their books, even if I never played.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    Slinky wrote:
    Kid_Kyoto wrote:None of us are writing our docteral thesis here.


    Shouldn't that be doctoral?


    I invoke my rights under the Treaty of Usenet.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 00:54:37


    Post by: alphaomega


    RPG is all good.
    I do (did) enjoy it.

    But I just really think it is going to mean more people will play GK. Currently the last 20 games I have had have been 1 against Orks. One against Eldar (the only mech army I have seen in a while) and roughly 50/50 of the rest have been BA or SW.

    I am just disappointed. I love my Inquisitor models (and I have a lot of them) And while I have 25 PAGKs and 8 TAGKs I just don't want an army that (by the looks of the rumours) will be Silver/Grey armoured BA with Storm Bolters.

    Sigh

    I just hope that things might be a bit different when the book comes out.
    Maybe then my hard earned £££ might actually get a game without people going "they are illegal!" every time I put an Inquisitor or GK down.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 01:03:04


    Post by: Leggy


    What's all the FURY about the Jokearo about? I thought the rumour was for a Weaponsmith. Doesn't say anything about it being a damn dirty ape/Man of the Forest as far as I see. In fact, to me it sounds more like some kind of Adeptus Mechanicus Technosavant.

    Ok, I don't know what a technosavant is, but seeing as the henchmen look like on of those catch-all counts-as units, why the hell not?


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 01:15:47


    Post by: Jaon


    Kid_Kyoto wrote:
    Jaon wrote:Is the misspelling of the word "grey" an internet meme or something...?



    As noted it's a US/UK thing.

    Moreover by the terms of the Treaty of Usenet which brought an end to the Great Flame Wars of 1994 attacking someone's spelling on the internet is not acceptable behavior. It's like making fun of your friend for saying 'um' in a sentence. None of us are writing our docteral thesis here.


    1999, I believe.

    I was not attacking spelling, I was asking a question. Umad?


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 01:18:41


    Post by: Mad4Minis


    Kid_Kyoto wrote:What, no one has jumped in to mention that yellow monkeys who are good with technology is just wee tad racist?



    Hmmm...never crossed my mind until it was mentioned. Even then it sounds like stretching. Think this may be a case of if you look hard enough, you can find racism in anything.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 01:23:50


    Post by: JohnHwangDD


    Mad4Minis wrote:
    Kid_Kyoto wrote:What, no one has jumped in to mention that yellow monkeys who are good with technology is just wee tad racist?


    Hmmm...never crossed my mind until it was mentioned. Even then it sounds like stretching. Think this may be a case of if you look hard enough, you can find racism in anything.


    Unfortunately, with GW one tends not to have to look very hard at all.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 01:25:43


    Post by: Jaon


    JohnHwangDD wrote:
    Mad4Minis wrote:
    Kid_Kyoto wrote:What, no one has jumped in to mention that yellow monkeys who are good with technology is just wee tad racist?


    Hmmm...never crossed my mind until it was mentioned. Even then it sounds like stretching. Think this may be a case of if you look hard enough, you can find racism in anything.


    Unfortunately, with GW one tends not to have to look very hard at all.


    Id love some examples.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 01:33:03


    Post by: JohnHwangDD


    Jaon wrote:
    JohnHwangDD wrote:
    Mad4Minis wrote:
    Kid_Kyoto wrote:What, no one has jumped in to mention that yellow monkeys who are good with technology is just wee tad racist?


    Hmmm...never crossed my mind until it was mentioned. Even then it sounds like stretching. Think this may be a case of if you look hard enough, you can find racism in anything.


    Unfortunately, with GW one tends not to have to look very hard at all.


    Id love some examples.


    Because we need more coded racist crap in our lives? No, Joannie, we don't.



    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 01:36:04


    Post by: Jaon


    JohnHwangDD wrote:
    Jaon wrote:
    JohnHwangDD wrote:
    Mad4Minis wrote:
    Kid_Kyoto wrote:What, no one has jumped in to mention that yellow monkeys who are good with technology is just wee tad racist?


    Hmmm...never crossed my mind until it was mentioned. Even then it sounds like stretching. Think this may be a case of if you look hard enough, you can find racism in anything.


    Unfortunately, with GW one tends not to have to look very hard at all.


    Id love some examples.


    Because we need more coded racist crap in our lives? No, Joannie, we don't.



    Oh no, you didnt just call m....you did didn't you.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 01:41:40


    Post by: AlexHolker


    You've already run two GK rumour threads into the ground, Jaon. How about you stop before you make it a third?


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 02:23:23


    Post by: Kid_Kyoto


    Jaon wrote:
    JohnHwangDD wrote:
    Mad4Minis wrote:
    Kid_Kyoto wrote:What, no one has jumped in to mention that yellow monkeys who are good with technology is just wee tad racist?


    Hmmm...never crossed my mind until it was mentioned. Even then it sounds like stretching. Think this may be a case of if you look hard enough, you can find racism in anything.


    Unfortunately, with GW one tends not to have to look very hard at all.


    Id love some examples.


    Not to refight the Great 'GW is Racist' Floating Flame War but they did make a fantasy world where all South Americans are Frogs (with 'hysterical' names like Tiq Tak Toe), all Egyptians are skeletons, Japanese are rats and Africans are Savage Orks.

    But Europeans are human.

    So lets just call that poorly thought out shall we?


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 02:36:12


    Post by: H.B.M.C.


    pretre wrote:The less a man makes declarative statements, the less apt he is to look foolish in retrospect.


    Careful! Using the word ‘foolish’ at Dakka is enough of an offence to garner not only an insulting PM from Old Man Fraz, but also angry red text in your post!!!

    This post merits ANGRY RED TEXT for illicit independent (if tiresome) thought. ~Comrade Manchu


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 02:41:18


    Post by: Vhalyar


    Leggy wrote:What's all the FURY about the Jokearo about? I thought the rumour was for a Weaponsmith. Doesn't say anything about it being a damn dirty ape/Man of the Forest as far as I see. In fact, to me it sounds more like some kind of Adeptus Mechanicus Technosavant.

    it's because the guy who posted that Henchmen details also added that the weaponsmiths are Jokearo.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 02:46:31


    Post by: H.B.M.C.


    Kanluwen wrote:Grey Knights can't fight with Inquisitors using Daemonhosts--or at least when Daemonhosts were introduced in Daemonhunters they couldn't.


    The fluff is arbitrary. It will change to suit the needs of the Codex/model lines. How many times must this be explained to you?

    Kanluwen wrote:And I refuse to believe any of these rumours until I see the book on preorder and from the black box at my FLGS.

    Too many of the rumormongers out there latch onto these outlandish rumors rather than shoot them down, simply because they don't want to look like they don't know it.


    Then I hope you’re a good cook, ‘cause I’ll be expecting one hell of an omelette on release day once you’ve finished scraping all the egg off your face.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 02:51:17


    Post by: bhsman


    Kid_Kyoto wrote:Not to refight the Great 'GW is Racist' Floating Flame War but they did make a fantasy world where all South Americans are Frogs (with 'hysterical' names like Tiq Tak Toe), all Egyptians are skeletons, Japanese are rats and Africans are Savage Orks.

    But Europeans are human.

    So lets just call that poorly thought out shall we?


    Punny names do indeed equal racism, yes.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 02:57:23


    Post by: Puscifer


    Guys...

    I'm not a Mod, but can we please get back on topic here???

    We are not here to talk about racism, we are here to talk about our hobby.

    So please... Quit it.

    Thank You.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 03:03:27


    Post by: Kanluwen


    H.B.M.C. wrote:
    Kanluwen wrote:Grey Knights can't fight with Inquisitors using Daemonhosts--or at least when Daemonhosts were introduced in Daemonhunters they couldn't.


    The fluff is arbitrary. It will change to suit the needs of the Codex/model lines. How many times must this be explained to you?

    Until it actually happens for real
    Most of the fluff changes are never as radical as you make them out to be. I've yet to see anything as radically oxymoronic as Grey Knights fighting alongside radical Inquisitors.
    And unless it's Pete Haines, I don't see it happening.

    H.B.M.C. wrote:
    Kanluwen wrote:And I refuse to believe any of these rumours until I see the book on preorder and from the black box at my FLGS.

    Too many of the rumormongers out there latch onto these outlandish rumors rather than shoot them down, simply because they don't want to look like they don't know it.


    Then I hope you’re a good cook, ‘cause I’ll be expecting one hell of an omelette on release day once you’ve finished scraping all the egg off your face.

    And I'll be expecting one hell of an apology if most of this doesn't come to pass.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 03:09:44


    Post by: Jaon


    AlexHolker wrote:You've already run two GK rumour threads into the ground, Jaon. How about you stop before you make it a third?


    I had to think long and carefully about what I put in this message.

    I may have been speaking off topic about the racism thing, although I did not start it, but I will not take responsibility for running the previous two into the ground. I was actually telling people to stay on topic, only when it was completely clear the thread was already at the gallows did I say inb4thelock. I would like to think that I was one of the more contributing members when it came to discussing GK in News and Rumours. Please keep your derogatory opinions to your self next time. If you were a MOD, I would take it a different way. But you are not.


    Back on topic:

    Honestly, the Jokaero I dismiss as a rumour, I'm not going to say "Even GW wouldnt do a thing like that" because I know what happened last time (I was set on fire), but really? Maybe GK are using Jokaero tech, which is also against fluff (to a point) but I am so very certain they are not in the codex.

    Im doubting GK are going to have serious anti tank problems. Obviously they have anti horde down pat, but in between the storm raven and the dreadknight, possible riflemen dreadnoughts and purgation squads (god knows what weapons they will be toting) I'm sure a well balanced list will do fine. Sure, they might not be as apt at destroying tanks as their Blood Angels predecessors, but we have all had our doubts about 5th edition releases, and they have all come through. Dont be so quick to dismiss our much awaited knights, guys


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 03:42:43


    Post by: AgeOfEgos


    Kanluwen wrote:
    H.B.M.C. wrote:
    Kanluwen wrote:Grey Knights can't fight with Inquisitors using Daemonhosts--or at least when Daemonhosts were introduced in Daemonhunters they couldn't.


    The fluff is arbitrary. It will change to suit the needs of the Codex/model lines. How many times must this be explained to you?

    Until it actually happens for real
    Most of the fluff changes are never as radical as you make them out to be. I've yet to see anything as radically oxymoronic as Grey Knights fighting alongside radical Inquisitors.
    And unless it's Pete Haines, I don't see it happening.


    Space Wolves ride other failed Space Wolves into battle. Every time I see a TWC now, I can't get that out of my head.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 03:44:15


    Post by: Kanluwen


    AgeOfEgos wrote:
    Kanluwen wrote:
    H.B.M.C. wrote:
    Kanluwen wrote:Grey Knights can't fight with Inquisitors using Daemonhosts--or at least when Daemonhosts were introduced in Daemonhunters they couldn't.


    The fluff is arbitrary. It will change to suit the needs of the Codex/model lines. How many times must this be explained to you?

    Until it actually happens for real
    Most of the fluff changes are never as radical as you make them out to be. I've yet to see anything as radically oxymoronic as Grey Knights fighting alongside radical Inquisitors.
    And unless it's Pete Haines, I don't see it happening.


    Space Wolves ride other failed Space Wolves into battle. Every time I see a TWC now, I can't get that out of my head.

    Thunderwolves aren't failed Space Wolves.

    So....what are you talking about?


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 03:46:29


    Post by: H.B.M.C.


    Kanluwen wrote:Most of the fluff changes are never as radical as you make them out to be.


    I don’t make them out to be ‘radical’, I just mark them out as changes to serve the whims of whoever is writing the Codex and whatever rules/model needs a’selling.

    Ever since the first 5th Ed Codex (Space Marines) this has been happening with increasing force in each Codex, with units added into the Codex where once there were none and whole concepts retconned into being. Some of this is inevitable – they had painted themselves into a corner with the Marines, and you cannot base an entire release on some recut plastic kits, so they had to invent new units to give them something new to do (hence Stern/Vanguard, Thunderfire Cannons, LS Storms, etc.). In some cases it is entirely necessary or appropriate – the Dark Eldar needed a redesign from the ground up to make them fit with current 40K, so the inclusion of many new units was a logical and clever thing to do. And sometimes it doesn’t make any sense or to sell a new model – Thunderwolf Cavalry or the Sanguinor.

    It’s not ‘radical’, it’s not a conspiracy - it’s just GW’s current design philosophy. GW change things. They change things all the time. Now I don’t put much faith into the idea of the Jokearo returning either, but the idea that you’re dismissing all rumours is frankly absurd, especially when so many of these current rumours (weapon names, psychic powers, unit names) are confirmed by multiple sources. In fact, your own brand of intractable nature and utterly absolutist point of view is turning you, Kan, into your own form of self-parody. Remember when you told me I couldn’t have a Deathwatch army? That changed.

    Get a grip. So many of these rumours are 100% fact. Live with that. I’m sure some of them might be off slightly, and some might be 100% fabrication (either by design or by misinterpretation), but dismissing them all? Come on...

    Kanluwen wrote:I've yet to see anything as radically oxymoronic as Grey Knights fighting alongside radical Inquisitors.


    You’re making a couple of assumptions here that don’t stand up to any real scrutiny:

    1. You’re assuming the distinction between Radical and Puritan will exist within the rules. Background, sure, but within the rules.
    2. Assuming the presence of the Daemonhost is true (and that’s one I cannot confirm myself sadly), you’re assuming that its rules will be the same and disallow the use of Grey Knights. Consider how silly that sounds – a unit that stops you from using Grey Knights in a Codex called Codex: Grey Knights.

    No. What’s more likely is that, assuming the Daemonhost is there, a fluff rationalisation has been written that glosses over/explains/changes the nature of how Daemonhosts are used within the Inquisition.

    H.B.M.C. wrote:And I'll be expecting one hell of an apology if most of this doesn't come to pass.


    Pffft!

    The weapons you’ve heard of? Real.
    The psychic powers? Real.
    The new Grey Knight unit names? Real (other than Ghost Knights – they’re new to me and nothing I’ve read even hints at them).
    The Dreadknight? Real.

    I’ve said in the past that I don’t know much about the Inquisitorial side of things, only that Coteaz is required for Storm Troopers as troops. Note that this doesn’t disprove the notion that Inq Lords will also have that ability, only that Coteaz allows Stormies as troops.

    But if the mention of Jokearo is enough to get you to dismiss everything you’ve heard, then why do you bother with these threads?


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 03:46:43


    Post by: pretre


    Kanluwen wrote:
    Thunderwolves aren't failed Space Wolves.

    So....what are you talking about?


    There are no wolves on Fenris.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 03:47:02


    Post by: Grundz


    Puscifer wrote:.
    We are not here to talk about racism, we are here to talk about our hobby.

    So please... Quit it.

    Thank You.


    that would require the dakka vets to not troll constantly and get away with it, which is unlikely
    it would be nice however if the rumors could be quantified and put on the first post so we dont have to slog through all of this.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 03:49:52


    Post by: AgeOfEgos


    pretre wrote:
    Kanluwen wrote:
    Thunderwolves aren't failed Space Wolves.

    So....what are you talking about?


    There are no wolves on Fenris.
    \


    Very good, if Dakka had a Like button this would get a click.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 03:53:21


    Post by: Pyriel-


    Most of the fluff changes are never as radical as you make them out to be.

    Dunno, going from a non mixed chaos codex where you were rewarded for keeping squad sizes sized after their gods holy numbers into a free for all, mix opposing deities freely and minmax units at will...looks like a pretty radical thing to do.

    We are not here to talk about racism, we are here to talk about our hobby.

    What racism, GW didnt start with any racism, if the point needs to be taken to its extreme then Tolkien did all the so called racist descriptions way back.
    Anyway, its racist only if you are overly sensitive so drop it and keep the GK thread going.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 03:54:53


    Post by: Manchu


    @HBMC: Angry red text aside, I hadn't even thought of the radical/puritan thing being retconned away.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 03:55:29


    Post by: pretre


    Pyriel- wrote:
    Most of the fluff changes are never as radical as you make them out to be.

    Dunno, going from a non mixed chaos codex where you were rewarded for keeping squad sizes sized after their gods holy numbers into a free for all, mix opposing deities freely and minmax units at will...looks like a pretty radical thing to do.


    That's kind of a game mechanic change; the fluff changes were separate from that.

    I also find it amusing that Kan is being anti-rumour/gw changes and H is being pro.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    Manchu wrote:@HBMC: Angry red text aside, I hadn't even thought of the radical/puritan thing being retconned away.

    It's 5th Edition, everything is on the chopping block!


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 03:58:17


    Post by: Pyriel-


    I also find it amusing that Kan is being anti-rumour/gw changes and H is being pro.

    Always fun to watch those two fight it out


    *Mwahaha* My 666:th post!


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 04:00:39


    Post by: Kanluwen


    H.B.M.C. wrote:
    Kanluwen wrote:Most of the fluff changes are never as radical as you make them out to be.


    I don’t make them out to be ‘radical’, I just mark them out as changes to serve the whims of whoever is writing the Codex and whatever rules/model needs a’selling.

    Ever since the first 5th Ed Codex (Space Marines) this has been happening with increasing force in each Codex, with units added into the Codex where once there were none and whole concepts retconned into being. Some of this is inevitable – they had painted themselves into a corner with the Marines, and you cannot base an entire release on some recut plastic kits, so they had to invent new units to give them something new to do (hence Stern/Vanguard, Thunderfire Cannons, LS Storms, etc.). In some cases it is entirely necessary or appropriate – the Dark Eldar needed a redesign from the ground up to make them fit with current 40K, so the inclusion of many new units was a logical and clever thing to do. And sometimes it doesn’t make any sense or to sell a new model – Thunderwolf Cavalry or the Sanguinor.

    Thunderwolf cavalry though isn't really that radical of an idea though. Not like you or several others have made them out to be.

    It’s not ‘radical’, it’s not a conspiracy - it’s just GW’s current design philosophy. GW change things. They change things all the time. Now I don’t put much faith into the idea of the Jokearo returning either, but the idea that you’re dismissing all rumours is frankly absurd, especially when so many of these current rumours (weapon names, psychic powers, unit names) are confirmed by multiple sources. In fact, your own brand of intractable nature and utterly absolutist point of view is turning you, Kan, into your own form of self-parody. Remember when you told me I couldn’t have a Deathwatch army? That changed.

    I never said you couldn't. I said that it wasn't fluffy.
    And before Deathwatch RPG was released?
    It wasn't. There was nothing to support the Deathwatch being deployed in any large numbers outside of extreme circumstances, and absolutely nothing whatsoever suggesting that they operated at army levels rather than akin to modern special operations divvying up their forces to strike multiple strategic targets.

    The Jokaero, however, are just one of many things not adding up about these rumours.
    An Ordo Xenos Inquisitor and Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor are another thing that makes my BS meter go off.

    Get a grip. So many of these rumours are 100% fact. Live with that. I’m sure some of them might be off slightly, and some might be 100% fabrication (either by design or by misinterpretation), but dismissing them all? Come on...

    Far easier to dismiss them all as crap than try to wade through and see which of the me-too brigade actually know what the hell they're talking about..

    Kanluwen wrote:I've yet to see anything as radically oxymoronic as Grey Knights fighting alongside radical Inquisitors.


    You’re making a couple of assumptions here that don’t stand up to any real scrutiny:

    1. You’re assuming the distinction between Radical and Puritan will exist within the rules. Background, sure, but within the rules.
    2. Assuming the presence of the Daemonhost is true (and that’s one I cannot confirm myself sadly), you’re assuming that its rules will be the same and disallow the use of Grey Knights. Consider how silly that sounds – a unit that stops you from using Grey Knights in a Codex called Codex: Grey Knights.

    The presence of a Daemonhost or any form of Radical, period, in Codex: Grey Knights would be absurd.

    No. What’s more likely is that, assuming the Daemonhost is there, a fluff rationalisation has been written that glosses over/explains/changes the nature of how Daemonhosts are used within the Inquisition.

    Maybe, but I still maintain it will be absurd and akin to the loyalist Dark Angels being led into combat by Luther.

    H.B.M.C. wrote:And I'll be expecting one hell of an apology if most of this doesn't come to pass.


    Pffft!

    The weapons you’ve heard of? Real.
    The psychic powers? Real.
    The new Grey Knight unit names? Real (other than Ghost Knights – they’re new to me and nothing I’ve read even hints at them).
    The Dreadknight? Real.

    I’ve said in the past that I don’t know much about the Inquisitorial side of things, only that Coteaz is required for Storm Troopers as troops. Note that this doesn’t disprove the notion that Inq Lords will also have that ability, only that Coteaz allows Stormies as troops.

    But if the mention of Jokearo is enough to get you to dismiss everything you’ve heard, then why do you bother with these threads?

    The Jokaero alone aren't.
    It's several of the various parts floating around.
    Jokaero, Xenos Inquisitors, Hereticus Inquisitors, etc within the Grey Knights army book all tick that little bell at the back of my head saying "this doesn't seem right...".

    pretre wrote:There are no wolves on Fenris.

    So help me, if you spoiled either of the Horus Heresy Wolf/Thousand Sons books for me with this I will not be a happy camper.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 04:03:37


    Post by: H.B.M.C.


    Manchu wrote:@HBMC: Angry red text aside, I hadn't even thought of the radical/puritan thing being retconned away.


    I don’t think it well, at least not in the fluff.

    Sadly we live in a world where fluff =/= rules (whereas in a perfect world the two would be 100% congruent). The fluff has Khorne and Slaanesh being enemies for eternity, yet the rules allow you to have legions of Slaaneshi Daemons serving under a quartet of Khornate Heralds.

    But back on point, I don’t see them ever removing the distinction between Puritans and Radicals, and the same can be said for the various Inquisitorial factions. Whether that background has any bearing on the rules is another story completely. As I said to The Kan above, look at it from two perspectives, and you tell me which seems the more likely:

    1. Daemonhosts are in the Codex, and stop you from using Grey Knights (in a book called ‘Codex: Grey knights’).
    2. Daemonhosts are in the Codex and do not stop you from using Grey Knights.

    The only other solution to this is that Daemonhosts are not in the Codex, something I am quite willing to believe, but the second option makes far more sense to me from a marketing perspective – why remove an opportunity for your customers to buy more models? If anything, Daemonhosts will get improved rules because the last versions sucked so badly that no one bought them. It will give a new lease of life on an old sculpt, and is the best way to generate more sales with minimal outlay (changing a rule is cheap, changing a model is not, and forbidding the use of a model makes you no money at all).


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 04:09:56


    Post by: ThirdUltra



    With all this Jokearo talk, it would appear that this 'dex may be quite useful for the other side yes?

    Alpharius already mentioned running these guys as a counts-as Alpha Legion army (though it was my thought as well, he expressed it more often than I have) which would merit the use of such radical henchmen as agents, etc....maybe even from the support of the Cabal, if it still exists in the current timeline.

    It'a all good for me regardless...lol!

    These rumors are very interesting and I guess we'll all see how some of the 'radical' elements are displayed when the codex comes out.....


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 04:24:14


    Post by: Alpharius


    ThirdUltra wrote:
    With all this Jokearo talk, it would appear that this 'dex may be quite useful for the other side yes?

    Alpharius already mentioned running these guys as a counts-as Alpha Legion army (though it was my thought as well, he expressed it more often than I have) which would merit the use of such radical henchmen as agents, etc....maybe even from the support of the Cabal, if it still exists in the current timeline.

    It'a all good for me regardless...lol!

    These rumors are very interesting and I guess we'll all see how some of the 'radical' elements are displayed when the codex comes out.....


    GET INTO IT!


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 04:33:07


    Post by: synack


    AgeOfEgos wrote:
    Rumor was, 4d6 rending for pen. That's a 14 on an average roll, with no rend needed.


    Actually, it's 3+4d6, which averages 17


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 04:38:34


    Post by: Destrado


    Power-armoured retinues for Inquisitors in an all-elite daemon-killing army?

    With laspistols?

    I'm sold


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 05:01:52


    Post by: Pillowman


    Thought, could the Henchmen available be predicated on our choice of Inquisitor?

    So that we are able to get a Demonhost for Ordo Malleus, Jokearo for Ordo Xenos, and Arco-Flagelant for Ordo Hereticus?


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 05:07:17


    Post by: pretre


    Kanluwen wrote:
    pretre wrote:There are no wolves on Fenris.

    So help me, if you spoiled either of the Horus Heresy Wolf/Thousand Sons books for me with this I will not be a happy camper.


    It's not a spoiler. It's from the first few pages of Prospero Burns.

    Also, two things.
    One, you might run across spoilers when reading a popular 40k news site for a book that came out months ago.
    Two, you may be wound a bit tight.

    It's okay, man. No one's mad and there don't need to be any 'So help me's or 'Not in my GKs'. It's okay.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 05:26:54


    Post by: Kanluwen


    pretre wrote:
    Kanluwen wrote:
    pretre wrote:There are no wolves on Fenris.

    So help me, if you spoiled either of the Horus Heresy Wolf/Thousand Sons books for me with this I will not be a happy camper.


    It's not a spoiler. It's from the first few pages of Prospero Burns.

    Also, two things.
    One, you might run across spoilers when reading a popular 40k news site for a book that came out months ago.

    Then have the bloody decency to put it in spoiler tags. It's why we have a feature like that on the site.
    I try not to post the endings for movies or novels even if they came out years ago, or even anything as big as "there are no wolves on Fenris".

    Two, you may be wound a bit tight.
    It's okay, man. No one's mad and there don't need to be any 'So help me's or 'Not in my GKs'. It's okay.

    Jokaero don't belong in GK. End of story. Without a huge fluff butchering, there's no possible way in hell that they fit. If anything, I think this is a miscommunication caused by someone who read "Jokaero digital weapons" and jumped to "OMG JOKAERO ARE IN THE CODEX!".

    They belong, if anywhere at all in the current 40k background, in Tau Empire or as part of a radical Ordo Xenos Inquisitor's retinue.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 06:33:47


    Post by: DarknessEternal


    synack wrote:
    AgeOfEgos wrote:
    Rumor was, 4d6 rending for pen. That's a 14 on an average roll, with no rend needed.


    Actually, it's 3+4d6, which averages 17


    That'd be ricockulous.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 06:53:45


    Post by: Sentai_Sage


    So far, as listed in this thread, anti armor options for Grey Knights are:

    Dread Knight's Melee attacks
    Dreadnaught's melee attacks (Melee), Multi-melta? (Short to mid range) Lascannon? (Long Range)
    Librarian's Might of Titan (Melee), and Vortex of doom (Short range)
    Strike squads with Psycannons and teleporters for Side/rear Armor (Mid range)
    Henchmen with Multi-meltas and extra range. (Mid range)
    Storm Raven (Short, Mid, Long range)
    Assassin's armor peircing rounds (long range)

    That's alot of options. I'd like to think that having all of these options will allow a GK player to choice how best to add Antai-armor to their army without being forced into a single unit.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 06:58:47


    Post by: bhsman


    The fluffiness of Jokaero being in a combat unit doesn't bother me as I'll just be using a techpriest adept instead.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 07:04:57


    Post by: H.B.M.C.


    Think is I remember them saying (might have even been Rick who said it) that the Jokearo wouldn't be returning because they were a bit of a joke at the time - even the name, 'Jokearo', kinda makes that stand out.

    That said, that was Rick then, there is no Rick now, and GW changes horses so often during races that there's no real telling what their plan is.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 07:43:00


    Post by: ThirdUltra


    Jokaero don't belong in GK. End of story. Without a huge fluff butchering, there's no possible way in hell that they fit. If anything, I think this is a miscommunication caused by someone who read "Jokaero digital weapons" and jumped to "OMG JOKAERO ARE IN THE CODEX!".

    They belong, if anywhere at all in the current 40k background, in Tau Empire or as part of a radical Ordo Xenos Inquisitor's retinue.


    I hear what you're saying Kan, and I agree, fluff-wise, since this is technically, a Grey Knight codex here, if they have any kind of Inquisitorial support, it should be from the Ordo Malleus, not from radical Ordo Xenos types. I mean, after all, they are still daemon hunters here, so yeah, alien henchman be damned here....they don't 'fit'.

    However, H.B.M.C. has pointed out the cold reality of GW here when it comes to fluff-considerations with armies; they change it and retconn as many times as the wind changes. Once you think you know the fluff of a particualr faction or army, they release something that radically changes it, leaving you scratching your head.

    But, this is probably one of those codexes that gives you options, which is always good, to where if you wanted to run a radical Ordo Xenos-type of inquisitorial force, you can. There may or may not be a restriction as to the inclusion of Grey Knight marines in the list, but either way, it still becomes an option for those who want that kind of list.

    So, yeah, the Jokaero shouldn't be chumming around a GK Task force that is led by some radical Xenos guy, but I'm sure GW will have some nice little write-up justifying it if this rumor is correct.....it's the way they do things and you always have the option of not using them in the first place...

    As an aside though, these guys will fit nicely with the Alphas, so it's all good to me; having an elite force of chaos marines using some dark-age tech or smoke-and-mirrors sorcery and captured equipment while their agents run wild is really making me smile....lol!



    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 08:11:21


    Post by: shrike


    AgeOfEgos wrote:
    pretre wrote:
    Kanluwen wrote:
    Thunderwolves aren't failed Space Wolves.

    So....what are you talking about?


    There are no wolves on Fenris.
    \


    Very good, if Dakka had a Like button this would get a click.


    I think dakka should have a high-five orkmoticon. Just sayin'.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 09:55:54


    Post by: grimz


    Can anyone explain Crusaders to me?

    Why on Earth, would the elite of elite give Humans Storm Shields? Isn't technology slowly going backwards or something?


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 10:15:52


    Post by: Slinky


    grimz wrote:Can anyone explain Crusaders to me?

    Why on Earth, would the elite of elite give Humans Storm Shields? Isn't technology slowly going backwards or something?


    These people are in the retinues of Inquisitors, who presumably have access to lots of good kit.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 10:36:47


    Post by: synack


    Slinky wrote:
    grimz wrote:Can anyone explain Crusaders to me?

    Why on Earth, would the elite of elite give Humans Storm Shields? Isn't technology slowly going backwards or something?


    These people are in the retinues of Inquisitors, who presumably have access to lots of good kit.


    Yet GK terminators don't, or even the paladins.

    What we're hearing now doesn't sound complete. I'm thinking this isn't the codex that will be released.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 11:02:25


    Post by: Mr Hyena


    The Inquisition is higher up in the hierarchy than the Grey Knights though. Its always said they get vastly better tech than the other factions of the IoM.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 11:13:31


    Post by: ph34r


    Yeah, not every Space Marine gets a stormshield or digital weapons. Yet, inquisitors and their retinues have access to these things.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 11:16:38


    Post by: synack


    Mr Hyena wrote:The Inquisition is higher up in the hierarchy than the Grey Knights though. Its always said they get vastly better tech than the other factions of the IoM.


    Let me rephrase.

    BA, BT, DA, SW, Vanilla SM and INQ Henchmen all get access to Storm Shields, but TAGK's don't?

    Colour me sceptical.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 11:23:18


    Post by: AlexHolker


    grimz wrote:Can anyone explain Crusaders to me?

    Why on Earth, would the elite of elite give Humans Storm Shields? Isn't technology slowly going backwards or something?

    I agree with you. This kind of stuff should at least be limited to WS or BS 4 humans, not these mooks.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 11:47:43


    Post by: H.B.M.C.


    synack wrote:BA, BT, DA, SW, Vanilla SM and INQ Henchmen all get access to Storm Shields, but TAGK's don't?


    It could be a doctrinal thing - they don't fight with shields. And it seems the Warding Staves will fill that role anyway, so I wouldn't worry about it.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 11:50:08


    Post by: ph34r


    Honestly I would be fine with GKT having or not having storm shields.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 11:52:48


    Post by: Jaon


    I would be more than a bit insulted if they couldnt get SS. They could in their previous [current] codex, and I really would love to see some nemesis halberd / storm shield (NFW/SS, what a beautiful abbreviation <3) terminator action. But then again, although storm shields are better, Paladins do have a 4++, so I guess I can live with only a measly 50% chance of totally ignoring that strength 10 ap 1 orbital bombardment :/


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 12:02:04


    Post by: synack


    Jaon wrote:Paladins do have a 4++, so I guess I can live with only a measly 50% chance of totally ignoring that strength 10 ap 1 orbital bombardment :/


    This has been shot down on warseer, apparently they don't have a 4++ and it remains to be seen what the warding staff does.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 12:52:04


    Post by: Puscifer


    I just read all the info on Warseer and TBH, the only thing I can see GK having issues with so far, is heavy mech.

    Those Psycannon will be ok vs rhino and chimera class vehicles, but this army is really going to struggle at range vs armour 14.

    I have a question...

    How will this army compare to other super elite armies??? Other armies with low numbers do tend to be crazy bad.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    ATM I am of two minds. Get an existing army or wait for GK.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    But again, I still doubt these rumors are genuine.

    So soon after hearing no news for ages, we have a flood of info. Looking at what we had for SW, BA and DE, we never got this much info this quickly. It doesn't make any sense.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 13:21:12


    Post by: bhsman


    synack wrote:
    Mr Hyena wrote:The Inquisition is higher up in the hierarchy than the Grey Knights though. Its always said they get vastly better tech than the other factions of the IoM.


    Let me rephrase.

    BA, BT, DA, SW, Vanilla SM and INQ Henchmen all get access to Storm Shields, but TAGK's don't?

    Colour me sceptical.


    Fluff can be used to create rules, but never the other way around. Just because they don't have access to it doesn't mean they won't in the fluff, much like how the Imperial Guard having exclusive use of the order system doesn't mean no other force would use it in the fluff. Sometimes it's done intentionally for the purposes of balance. Not to mention that we have NO idea what half of the listed equipment does; maybe Nemesis Falchions or Warding Stalves give a 'parry' bonus, giving them a 4++ effectively, etc.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 13:31:15


    Post by: alphaomega


    Don't standard TAGK have the option for TH/SS? Or DH/SS?


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 13:35:34


    Post by: synack


    alphaomega wrote:Don't standard TAGK have the option for TH/SS? Or DH/SS?


    Not according to the rumours.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 13:50:00


    Post by: Pyriel-


    The only other solution to this is that Daemonhosts are not in the Codex, something I am quite willing to believe, but the second option makes far more sense to me from a marketing perspective – why remove an opportunity for your customers to buy more models? If anything, Daemonhosts will get improved rules because the last versions sucked so badly that no one bought them. It will give a new lease of life on an old sculpt, and is the best way to generate more sales with minimal outlay (changing a rule is cheap, changing a model is not, and forbidding the use of a model makes you no money at all).

    HB speaks da truth.

    Alpharius already mentioned running these guys as a counts-as Alpha Legion army

    Henchmen as alpha legion I could buy but the first dude that brings in grey knights to the table claiming they count as alpha legion is going to be kicked out of the gaming club.


    I hear what you're saying Kan, and I agree, fluff-wise, since this is technically, a Grey Knight codex here, if they have any kind of Inquisitorial support, it should be from the Ordo Malleus, not from radical Ordo Xenos types. I mean, after all, they are still daemon hunters here, so yeah, alien henchman be damned here....they don't 'fit'.

    I also agree but fluff wise speaking the =I= retinues would also be excluded.
    Who the heck brings normal humans into a super deamon battle where only the GKs stand a chance of getting out with intact sanities.

    There is a lot of hypocricy with one paradox not fitting in with the codex while a bunch of otehrs do.

    Why on Earth, would the elite of elite give Humans Storm Shields? Isn't technology slowly going backwards or something?

    Why on earth would normal humans be given the means for a super save while the true elite grey knights next to them cant?

    The Inquisition is higher up in the hierarchy than the Grey Knights though. Its always said they get vastly better tech than the other factions of the IoM.

    Then again isnt one of the GK grand masters a member of the high lords of terra?
    You cant get a higher give-us-hitech-toys status then that!



    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 14:37:02


    Post by: jasonc


    I made an account to leave this comment, Grey Knight anti-vehicle? Do you realise how good Psycannons are rumoured to be now?

    Str 7 Heavy 4/Assault 2, with rending. That can shoot through walls btw, 4 in a squad for 280 pts?

    Thats say 16 shots, which equate to just under 2 rendings in total. Str 7+6 = 13, with 1-2 glancing a LR and 3-6 penetrating. Let alone anything less than a landraider lol.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 14:51:20


    Post by: BrassScorpion


    What, no one has jumped in to mention that yellow monkeys who are good with technology is just wee tad racist?
    1) Why was this even mentioned in this thread in the first place?
    2) What does it have to do with the topic, Grey Knights?


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 15:00:09


    Post by: DarknessEternal


    grimz wrote:Can anyone explain Crusaders to me?

    Why on Earth, would the elite of elite give Humans Storm Shields? Isn't technology slowly going backwards or something?

    The Imperium has impossibly advanced technology. They just don't waste it on grunts, as they effectively have infinite grunts.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 15:19:47


    Post by: aka_mythos


    ph34r wrote:Yeah, not every Space Marine gets a stormshield or digital weapons. Yet, inquisitors and their retinues have access to these things.

    Jaon wrote:I would be more than a bit insulted if they couldnt get SS...

    synack wrote:BA, BT, DA, SW, Vanilla SM and INQ Henchmen all get access to Storm Shields, but TAGK's don't?

    I think you guys are missing the point that they're expected to get something effectively better than a stormshield. Or in the least something that if used with SS would be broken.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 15:32:22


    Post by: sourclams


    Puscifer wrote:Those Psycannon will be ok vs rhino and chimera class vehicles, but this army is really going to struggle at range vs armour 14.


    Not if multiple Vindicaires can be taken, and not if they have unlimited special ammo.

    Admitted those are both big 'ifs', but Vindies can easily smash AV14 to pieces. If GW gives them further nonsense, like ignores cover or AP1, then AV14 just leaves the meta.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 15:33:03


    Post by: Alpharius


    Pyriel- wrote:
    The only other solution to this is that Daemonhosts are not in the Codex, something I am quite willing to believe, but the second option makes far more sense to me from a marketing perspective – why remove an opportunity for your customers to buy more models? If anything, Daemonhosts will get improved rules because the last versions sucked so badly that no one bought them. It will give a new lease of life on an old sculpt, and is the best way to generate more sales with minimal outlay (changing a rule is cheap, changing a model is not, and forbidding the use of a model makes you no money at all).

    HB speaks da truth.

    Alpharius already mentioned running these guys as a counts-as Alpha Legion army

    Henchmen as alpha legion I could buy but the first dude that brings in grey knights to the table claiming they count as alpha legion is going to be kicked out of the gaming club.



    Guess I won't be gaming at your rather restrictive club then!

    There is currently NO way to accurately represent an Alpha Legion cell using regular humans and Astartes working together.

    The old Daemonhunters codex allowed for an excellent 'counts as' method for doing this - very easy with the "allies" rule.

    Well, the 'allies' rule is going away now, but according to GW we're still living in the Golden Age of "Counts As".

    Having 'souped up' Astartes (GK's of various flavors) in an army with Imperial Guard types is a GREAT way to represent the (alleged) true power of the Space Marines in comparison to regular humans - Accept it! And Get Into It!


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 15:35:51


    Post by: Kanluwen


    Alpha Legion don't really use their old "cell" structure that they used during the Heresy from the accounts I've seen of their actions in the 'current' timeframe though.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 15:37:04


    Post by: bhsman


    Pyriel- wrote:Henchmen as alpha legion I could buy but the first dude that brings in grey knights to the table claiming they count as alpha legion is going to be kicked out of the gaming club.


    Why's that? Usual apprehensions about counts-as aside, you have Marines and humans (cultists/AL agents depending on your interpretation of Legion) fighting alongside each other. As long as all the wargear is accounted for on the model appropriately, there shouldn't be a problem.

    Who the heck brings normal humans into a super deamon battle where only the GKs stand a chance of getting out with intact sanities. There is a lot of hypocricy with one paradox not fitting in with the codex while a bunch of otehrs do.


    What?

    Why on earth would normal humans be given the means for a super save while the true elite grey knights next to them cant?


    For balance issues, probably. It's not that huge of a deal.

    Then again isnt one of the GK grand masters a member of the high lords of terra?
    You cant get a higher give-us-hitech-toys status then that!


    Nah, just a position on the leadership council of the Inquisition.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 15:38:48


    Post by: AgeOfEgos


    sourclams wrote:
    Puscifer wrote:Those Psycannon will be ok vs rhino and chimera class vehicles, but this army is really going to struggle at range vs armour 14.


    Not if multiple Vindicaires can be taken, and not if they have unlimited special ammo.

    Admitted those are both big 'ifs', but Vindies can easily smash AV14 to pieces. If GW gives them further nonsense, like ignores cover or AP1, then AV14 just leaves the meta.



    Yeah, Vindis look pretty strong to me too. Someone earlier said it's 4 + 4d6, which is pretty nuts. Still, they lost their night fight and just gained stealth in return....so I guess if you bring landraiders against that you just pour all your str. 8+ into him and hope he fails a cover.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 15:39:56


    Post by: daedalus-templarius


    Hmm, I hope GKT and Paladins can pay for stormshields... that 3++ is just too good to pass up.

    NFW/SS would be amazing.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 15:41:49


    Post by: alphaomega


    On the other hand There is the Inquisitor Lord Terran...

    Which a lot of my friends find highly amusing


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 15:43:18


    Post by: warboss


    Alpharius wrote:Guess I won't be gaming at your rather restrictive club then!

    There is currently NO way to accurately represent an Alpha Legion cell using regular humans and Astartes working together.

    The old Daemonhunters codex allowed for an excellent 'counts as' method for doing this - very easy with the "allies" rule.


    forge world called, said hi, and told me to tell you that they're quite angry that you're ignoring their books. the brits on the other line said that you can team astartes and humans together with lots of variety using the tyrant's legion rules, thankyouverymuchsir. exact quote. you can also still keep their "are-they-chaos-or-loyal???" flavor by using it as opposed to when using the GK rules.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 15:48:46


    Post by: Pyriel-


    I made an account to leave this comment, Grey Knight anti-vehicle? Do you realise how good Psycannons are rumoured to be now?

    Str 7 Heavy 4/Assault 2, with rending. That can shoot through walls btw, 4 in a squad for 280 pts?

    Thats say 16 shots, which equate to just under 2 rendings in total. Str 7+6 = 13, with 1-2 glancing a LR and 3-6 penetrating. Let alone anything less than a landraider lol.

    For 280-ish points they BETTER damn wreck some vehicles.
    Even that, a pen hit doesnt automatically translate to a destroyed tank, only 1/3 of all pen hits get destroyed.
    So this 280p unit needs to whack a lot of armour and do so every turn in order to ever earn back those points.

    Vs light mech opponents those points will never be earned back since a rhino and dark eldar banana boat cost so little as do most horde infantry.
    Plus shutting down such a non cc unit would be fairly easy since the standard GK army wont have unit numbers over to leave spare squads back guarding that purgation squad from fast flankers and deep strikers etc.

    Guess I won't be gaming at your rather restrictive club then!

    There is currently NO way to accurately represent an Alpha Legion cell using regular humans and Astartes working together.

    The old Daemonhunters codex allowed for an excellent 'counts as' method for doing this - very easy with the "allies" rule.

    Well, the 'allies' rule is going away now, but according to GW we're still living in the Golden Age of "Counts As".

    Having 'souped up' Astartes (GK's of various flavors) in an army with Imperial Guard types is a GREAT way to represent the (alleged) true power of the Space Marines in comparison to regular humans - Accept it! And Get Into It!

    Its the increase power levels of individual GK and TAGK marines vs SM that dont do it for me.
    No way you are going to convince me that alpha legion mariens are SO damn much more powerful then normal marines that a grey knight termie squad all of a sudden count as chaos SM.

    Its as probable as me having units of deamon princes "counting as" first founding loyalist astartes or GK terminators with plague conversions counting as fallen GKs in the servidce of nurgle.
    The fluff feel of having GK marines with their ultra-pro-imperial rules "counting as" chaos marines is just to much.

    But if you show me official fluff and/or rules that say the standard Alpha legion marine comes with a force weapon, their whole warhosts consist of marine psychers and their forges produce aegis terminator armours for their common troop tactical squads then you have me sold.

    Until then, dream on.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 15:49:53


    Post by: Alpharius


    Kanluwen wrote:Alpha Legion don't really use their old "cell" structure that they used during the Heresy from the accounts I've seen of their actions in the 'current' timeframe though.


    They are as many unconfirmed reports of 'exactly' how the Legion operates "today" as their are confirmed reports - the beauty of the Alpha Legion is that, really, anything goes.

    warboss wrote:
    Alpharius wrote:Guess I won't be gaming at your rather restrictive club then!

    There is currently NO way to accurately represent an Alpha Legion cell using regular humans and Astartes working together.

    The old Daemonhunters codex allowed for an excellent 'counts as' method for doing this - very easy with the "allies" rule.


    forge world called, said hi, and told me to tell you that they're quite angry that you're ignoring their books. the brits on the other line said that you can team astartes and humans together with lots of variety using the tyrant's legion rules, thankyouverymuchsir. exact quote. you can also still keep their "are-they-chaos-or-loyal???" flavor by using it as opposed to when using the GK rules.


    Yeah, unfortunately the Real World called and there were many irrational gamers on the line with bizarre anti-FW phobias, aka, "If it Ain't GW, I Ain't Playing Against It!" Syndrome!

    Still, a VERY good idea - and one that I'll be looking into - thanks!


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 15:50:52


    Post by: Pyriel-


    forge world called, said hi, and told me to tell you that they're quite angry that you're ignoring their books. the brits on the other line said that you can team astartes and humans together with lots of variety using the tyrant's legion rules, thankyouverymuchsir.

    Thankyou very much.

    Here you go Alphy, use the perfectly reasonable FW badab rule books to represent an alpha-with-humans army, I would love to meet that on the table rather then some massacred fluff contraption with super psycher grey alpha legionaires.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    They are as many unconfirmed reports of 'exactly' how the Legion operates "today" as their are confirmed reports - the beauty of the Alpha Legion is that, really, anything goes.

    Yeah like their alpha legion psycannons and psycher powers für alles!
    LOL

    You´ll find tons more people accepting a game with FW rules then the insanity above.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 15:53:06


    Post by: Alpharius


    Pyriel- wrote:

    Alpharius wrote:Guess I won't be gaming at your rather restrictive club then!

    There is currently NO way to accurately represent an Alpha Legion cell using regular humans and Astartes working together.

    The old Daemonhunters codex allowed for an excellent 'counts as' method for doing this - very easy with the "allies" rule.

    Well, the 'allies' rule is going away now, but according to GW we're still living in the Golden Age of "Counts As".

    Having 'souped up' Astartes (GK's of various flavors) in an army with Imperial Guard types is a GREAT way to represent the (alleged) true power of the Space Marines in comparison to regular humans - Accept it! And Get Into It!


    Its the increase power levels of individual GK and TAGK marines vs SM that dont do it for me.
    No way you are going to convince me that alpha legion mariens are SO damn much more powerful then normal marines that a grey knight termie squad all of a sudden count as chaos SM.

    Its as probable as me having units of deamon princes "counting as" first founding loyalist astartes or GK terminators with plague conversions counting as fallen GKs in the servidce of nurgle.
    The fluff feel of having GK marines with their ultra-pro-imperial rules "counting as" chaos marines is just to much.

    But if you show me official fluff and/or rules that say the standard Alpha legion marine comes with a force weapon, their whole warhosts consist of marine psychers and their forges produce aegis terminator armours for their common troop tactical squads then you have me sold.

    Until then, dream on.


    Oh, I'll be living the dream indeed, as GW has already said I can!

    And, the background material in general shows us just how much more 'powerful' an Astartes is compared to a regular human. This is very well represented here.

    The limitations will be the same as any "GK" force - points costs and, most likely, lack of long range Anti-Tank.

    And really, what a strange gaming area you must live it!

    More people accepting of FW rules than Official GW Approved "Counts As" rules?


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 15:54:00


    Post by: aka_mythos


    Alpharius wrote:They are as many unconfirmed reports of 'exactly' how the Legion operates "today" as their are confirmed reports - the beauty of the Alpha Legion is that, really, anything goes.
    Maybe one day GW will just realize that Chaos Cultists belong in the Chaos Codex; that sabotaging fodder is as characteful as it gets. Given different writers philosophies, unfortunately I doubt we'd ever get them unless Cruddace does it... that leaves some shuttering.


    GK rumours - (blurry) Dreadknight pics on pg 19 @ 2011/02/08 15:55:44


    Post by: bhsman


    Pyriel strikes me as the kinda guy who couldn't enjoy movies like Live Free or Die Hard because of the kid hacking into national security mainframes in about 30 seconds.