Btw, judging from what some have said and the naming and design of some things...

... Tenner that this is a Matt Ward Codex.

Wow. This codex might actually be even weaker than Chaos Daemons while suffering from essentially every same weakness. So you'll have a small army with storm bolters and glorified assault cannons that is reasonably good in close combat but will leave the table with zero points in very short order against mech armies (90% of the armies out there).

Someone has definately watered down the psychic powers. They're all pretty crap. Who would want to deep strike on top of Grey Knights when they can be tabled from the other side of the table? The immunity to shakes and stuns was supposed to be automatic for all GK vehicles. Now it's a psychic test every turn. On top of that they were rumoured to have the bonus armour psychic power which would've actually made them contenders. The summoning is a joke for two reasons, firstly because only one model in the army can have it (so you just push against that model) and secondly because it can't pull GK units from close combat.

Paladins are a bad version of the economically priced eternal warrior Bloodcrushers. The Dread Knight is the 'loyal' version of the Soul Grinder. This codex reeks of lack of imagination.

Sentai_Sage wrote:

synack wrote:The Halbred adds +1I

WHAT?! Since when?! <3

From Warseer (took me a while to find it, knew I had seen it, bolded the relevant part)

Marshal Augustine;5293455 wrote:Ok where to start?

I have not heard or seen anything relating to weapons/wargear yet. So no dice on that one.

The assassins have one singular "fluff" entry, that states their generic rules... 6+ FNP, Dodge Save etc... and then one page with the rules for each one (i think) stating wargear and rules. I do not believe they take up a slot.

Inquisitors are about the cost of a current GK.

Nemesis force weapons ( I have no idea)... units are armed with nemesis swords. And units can upgrade any models to have force halberds at xpoints. the Halberd I believe adds 1 Initiative.

No libby dread. But all GK vehicles are phykers... their go to power is to "cure" shaken or stunned at the start of a GK turn.

Dreadknight:
t7 w4 2+sv/ 4+inv with lots of weapon upgrades including the heavy psycannon and super incinerator.

No one's excited about the much needed addition of techmarines?

All kidding aside, these rumors make me very enthusiastic about this book. They look to be able to redploy quickly to meet Daemons as they port in, and have some powers to concentrate their firepower and interdict daemons- infiltrating 12" radius spheres of mishap seems like a reasonable counter. While making them anti daemon, it does seem that they'll still be quite challenging to play against conventional mechanized forces. As with the Orks, a codex flaw has become a defining army feature- Grey Knights suck against mech. I highly approve of this as long as the McNemesis McDreadKnight Knight can beat Defilers and Soulgrinders to death with their own limbs.

That would leave us with a specialist army that does what it set out to do really well, without messing around with conventional thinking.

I'm amazed at peoples criticisms of this 'Codex' atm; we don't have much confirmation and yet people have already made up their mind?

The Psychic Powers seem powerful indeed; one that creates Str6 + 2D6 against vehicles.
A JotWW flamer template ()
Initiative 10 to an entire unit (combined with GK normal ability, this should rock in assault)
Cause an enemy unit to be -1 toughness(!!!!)
And the ability to deepstrike a unit near the Libby - think Purgutation squads.

The Psychic Powers seem very impressive, particularly combined with the standard powers for each squad.
A Psychic Test to get immunity to stunned/shaken is still powerful, particularly if you don't have to pay.

Paladins are not a Weaker Version of Bloodcrushers; they're 2+4++, armed with Nemesis Force Weapons etc. If anything, they're a stronger version of Nobs.

Judging from what is being reported so far, Grey Knights will only really have a problem against Mechanised or maybe Eldar. This is fairly fitting to be honest as not many Daemons roll around in tanks and ultimately I'd suspect there will be some kind of anti-mech within the Codex.

I wonder what Inquisitor Valeria's model will look like. I hope it isn't one of those incredibly douchey models that they use for the female WH inquisitors right now, because those are just... wrong, with their ridiculous hair and angular man-faces.

I'm pretty much calling bull on 99% of these rumours.

Interestingly enough, right around this time of the year/timeframe before release is when we started seeing the rumours for the 'Real!111!! Blood Angels Codex' that was used as a joke by the Warseer rumormongers.

Then you are being needlessly dismissive.

I can't speak for the Ghost Knights or the Inquisitorial aspects, but a lot of what you're seeing with the GK stuff (weapons, powers, even the names of units) - they're dead on.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Where's the DreadKnight with the KnightLights for KnightFight? Is it just a regular Dread?

And the Stormies? Where?

Meh.

*cough* nemsis dreadnought *cough*

I'm amazed at peoples criticisms of this 'Codex' atm; we don't have much confirmation and yet people have already made up their mind?

I can't see why GK players would be extremely disappointed at this moment; but I can say it doesn't look brilliant if true for the =I= players.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Then you're a bigger fool than I imagined.

I can't speak for the Ghost Knights or the Inquisitorial aspects, but a lot of what you're seeing with the GK stuff (weapons, powers, even the names of units) - they're dead on.

With the sheer amount of stupidity we're seeing here, you'll understand if I don't believe in a codex where we're getting reports of Jokaero being present.

Or where Assassins use no FOC slot and have the statlines of Phoenix Lords.

And this kind of codex creep? This is only something you'd have seen from Pete Haines. The man couldn't write a balanced army book to save his life.

Eh, I'm fine with the assassins as long as they're still limited to Inquisitors. Gives a pure Inq army a bit of punch. And they're costly too.

Modquisitioin on. Everyone needs to remember Dakka Rule #1 is in force here. Politeness is required.

Oh honestly...

Kanluwen wrote:
And this kind of codex creep? This is only something you'd have seen from Pete Haines. The man couldn't write a balanced army book to save his life.

Especially if by some amazing coincidence he was writing a codex for his own army.

Some of the statlines are way off the charts, I'll agree with Kan on that. And I hope some of the rumours aren't true, but H.B.M.C.'s insistence seems to say otherwise, so I'm waiting for the codex before voicing my opinion.

I am just looking to clarify: you can take an infinite number of Henchman mobs? So suck it up and put in 200pts of grey knights and you have an inquisition army.

So far that seems to be the case for the henchmen mobs.

The ignore shaken stunned power "fortitude" is a defacto +5pts on all tanks.

Personally I can see a lot more playability with this book than the current one.

Has there been much rumoured about Assassins?
I would quite like to play an army with as many Assassins as possible, but guess it will be same as last dex, and you can only use 4 at most? (1 special, and 3 of the death cult? Could you use both of them, or was it one of other?)
Thanks

Kanluwen wrote:I'm pretty much calling bull on 99% of these rumours.

Interestingly enough, right around this time of the year/timeframe before release is when we started seeing the rumours for the 'Real!111!! Blood Angels Codex' that was used as a joke by the Warseer rumormongers.

I wouldn't call it bull on anywhere near 99% of these rumours, but - no offense Iago - I'm taking many of the stat-lines and points costs with a handful of salt. I think the FoC and some of the abilities sound pretty damn accurate, but much of the detail I'm not near convinced by.
I was also thinking that it may be a bit early for 'solid' rumours, but such things don't exactly follow a schedule, so I'll wait and see...

What does JOTWW do? Sorry, but i don't know much about space wolves.

Also, has anyone actually seen the part that says 'X special character allows you to take such and such as troops' and 'Y special character allows other types as troops'? Because I don't find that bit to be clear to be honest.

Then, upgrading to halberds gives initiative +1. That's cool but it also means that ALL of my current PAGK are upgraded already and that to field none upgraded PAGK, I will have to buy new ones. Im not happy about that at all. Needless to say, Im pretty sure that all of my TAGK will fall victim to the same type of problem.

All in all, the new codex looks quite interesting. I'm disappointed that GK have lost some of their elite feel with no WS5 and seemingly no str 6 NFW. The new shrouding rule doesn't look as good either. But all the psychic powers look good and the librarian sounds awesome! It just feels that GK have lost some guaranteed eliteness and only gained in it's place potential eliteness in the form of psychic powers.

JotWW = Models that are hit take an initiative test (roll a D6, if under initiative the you've passed). If you fail the initiative test you're removed from play. No Eternal Warrior, nothing.

Kanluwen wrote:I'm pretty much calling bull on 99% of these rumours.

Interestingly enough, right around this time of the year/timeframe before release is when we started seeing the rumours for the 'Real!111!! Blood Angels Codex' that was used as a joke by the Warseer rumormongers.

'

Though some of it happens to look odd/overpowered, just think what happened when the latest Imperial Guard and Blood Angels books came out. They seemed very odd. Think of it. "Wait, you mean they get SQUADS of Leman Russ tanks and they are a single heavy support choice?"

Also with Coded: Blood Angels, "Land Raiders as troops transports! HA! Even GW isn't that greedy!"

I'd say that the detail sounds pretty believable in the age of the super codex that we've been seeing lately. Some rules just seem silly until they become mainstream. We'll just have to wait and see.

Just Dave wrote:JotWW = Models that are hit take an initiative test (roll a D6, if under initiative the you've passed). If you fail the initiative test you're removed from play. No Eternal Warrior, nothing.

For fans of Norse mythology, the effect is more than hinted at in the name of the spell. At the battle of Ragnarok, Odin is swallowed by the Fenris Wolf (sometimes spelled Fenrir Wolf), a monster so big when it opens its jaws wide the bottom jaw touches the Earth and the upper jaw touches the Moon. Odin didn't get a saving throw either.

JOTWW - wow! That's pretty awesome then since it's a flamer template psychic ability. Thanks for the info Dave.

I bet only the librarian has it, or a special character. I'm hoping, wildly that at least some kind of troop has access to it, heh.

Seriously? Space Marine units all based on one identical model is that hard of a foreign concept for you?
It appears to be 3 units based on Power Armoured Gray Knights (Strike, Purgation, Purifier). For reference, Vanilla space marines have 5 (Command, Sternguard, Vanguard, Tactical, Devastator).
I am sure there will be a piece of wargear you will get to model on Justicars with the Teleporter for their squad, much like you can model other upgrades.

One quick look at my sig and you would never have to ask such a question in the first place, duh.

Vanguards and sternguards look pretty different from standard tacs due to the massive wargear loadout.

I have a hard time imagining strike and purifyer squads differing anything from purgation squads with only 2 weapons or squads only differing by their psychic power usage for that matter.
Lets hope the rumored insane detail level on the upcoming GK minis is enough to separate the squads by tangible means.

Scout USR a Strike squad. They 30" move during the scout movment phase. GK player goes first. Move squad 12" (Jump Inf) Assault 6"

That's a 48" First turn assault. Who's affraid of IG mech now?

IF it will ever be allowed. I have a hard time seeing a 48´first turn charge being in the codex.
And even if, what happens when all those IG mech pies get first turn?

So, can we expect this to be the way all squads increase their str, or will there also be a NFW upgrade (Halberd?) option, for a total of 7str?

The Halbred adds +1I

In what squads and for what individual point cost?
It seems the GKs will cost 20p a piece naked but still retain their current 25p cost with halbeards.

Then again all old PAGK models come with a halbeard so there will be an abundance of those.

I'm thinking The Summoning, followed by Sanc. Protected squad where ever you need it.

I´m thinking the summoning followed by mishap

Does anyone know if the GKs will get a version of the accurate DS the BAs get like only scatter 1D6 when they are teleporting?
If not then the summoning power simply looks like a way to gain last attempt objective grabbing and/or desperate removal of units from unfavorable cc.
The risk of scattering badly will make it least to say impractical in offensive usage.

I don't think that anyone will care what the official GW spelling is (British) when they can use their own language with equal ease.

Exactly! Armour - armor, grey - gray, who gives a crap, we all know and understand what is being said.

Librarian in a inquisitor squad with mystics, means you could summon a squad and never have it scatter.

True but the point cost will mean the army will kind of have to be built around this one time gimmic.
If you really want a powerful glass cannon libby then there go 215 points and on top of that you add an inquisitor (and waste a slot) with henchmen (even more points) plus you need an additional means to get them to where the summoning should take place and on the exact right turn.
That is some steep price to pay just in order to make sure one squad can pop up and do some shooting.

As I said, doesnt seem to be overly powerful in the end, mostly a desperate (risky) means to get out from bad cc or a tight spot or an all or nothing objective grabbing the last turn.

-Inquisitor that unlocks the Allies rule again (an alternative to Coteaz)

I´m glad the ally rule is out, it would open up a big can of imbalance and abuse otherwise.
Imagine a paladin squad cc defending a super shooty IG line or something other, mixing the best of two codexes.

I... I just checked my ork codex. It's... they wear 'Eavy Armour! I Never Knew! I thought they had armor The Whole Time! X_x

Hehe, "powwa armour" ftw!

A better analogy would be Nobz, which are found in almost any serious Ork list. TH/SS Terms + Land Raider + Vulkan run 650ish and are pretty common too...and they only have one wound and can't allocate, lack a better/free EA and aren't WS5. I've never seen Plasma Cannon Long Fangs. Ever. But if they brought those, I imagine they wouldn't laugh much considering their 200 point unit can't blow up/stop a Land Raider.

The big difference is that all those examples cost LESS then the GK ditto plus have cheaper support units that can take care of the weaknesses of the mentioned squad examples.
A gK army is pretty much stuck with super expensive or extremely small units.

I myself often run 6 plasmacannons in a standard army, it absolutely murders everything power armoured and even hordy if properly supported.
It is kind of like facing a lot of dreadnoughts when you play a Vulkan army, you pretty much sigh knowing the game will be a one sided boring walkover for you.

Well, that's a poor analogy as;

Vanguard only have one wound
Vanguard don't have FNP and a 2+ save
Vanguard aren't WS 5
Vanguard don't have an 4++
Vanguard don't come with power weapons

Not that poor.
Vanguards dont cost an arm and a leg naked.
They can all gear out uniquely.
They have a 3+ inv save option.
They can be a great deal more mobile.
They have the means to assault instantly not wasting time taking fire.

But that was not my point, it was that the oh so awesome paladins will cost an insane amount of points when properly geared out OR be forced to be used in very small squads and they still have a big weakness that can easily make them into an eggs-in-basket unit and not a overpowered unit present in each and every GK army.

Wow. This codex might actually be even weaker than Chaos Daemons while suffering from essentially every same weakness. So you'll have a small army with storm bolters and glorified assault cannons that is reasonably good in close combat but will leave the table with zero points in very short order against mech armies (90% of the armies out there).

Someone has definately watered down the psychic powers. They're all pretty crap. Who would want to deep strike on top of Grey Knights when they can be tabled from the other side of the table? The immunity to shakes and stuns was supposed to be automatic for all GK vehicles. Now it's a psychic test every turn. On top of that they were rumoured to have the bonus armour psychic power which would've actually made them contenders. The summoning is a joke for two reasons, firstly because only one model in the army can have it (so you just push against that model) and secondly because it can't pull GK units from close combat.

Paladins are a bad version of the economically priced eternal warrior Bloodcrushers. The Dread Knight is the 'loyal' version of the Soul Grinder. This codex reeks of lack of imagination.

I agree. The codex smells of the same uncompetitiveness like the current one albeit with tons of more options and fun units but still with every unit being priced through the roof if geared out to actually do something useful.

I still have no clue what this army is supposed to do vs all the mech heavy builds out there except pack up and go home.
Shooting S7 weapons at heavy armour or chasing them around on foot doesnt exactly look like a balanced codex.
Neather is it balanced when a lame cheap-O eldar HQ can stop all GK psychic powers in its tracks.

No one's excited about the much needed addition of techmarines?

I still dont get it, whats the deal with GK techmarines in an army that can hardly afford vehicles?
You dont take a tecchie to be able to repair that one landriader, you take him and put him amongst a group of landraiders, razorbacks and dreads so that he can walk around repairing things every turn but those vehicle parks will never see the tabletop in a GK army due to the insane point cost of everything.

That would leave us with a specialist army that does what it set out to do really well, without messing around with conventional thinking.

Specialist armies are never seen in tournaments. So I hope this one wont end up as the same lame weak army the current one is, only usable vs a select few opponents.
All the wargear options arent covered yet so there is still a chance the GK codex will be able to stand up to mech armies (90% of all armies that is).

The Psychic Powers seem powerful indeed; one that creates Str6 + 2D6 against vehicles.

Pretty useless when you still have to footslog and chase armour with expensive infantry.
How again are you ever going to use those awesome vehicle CC killing powers against eldar, dark eldar and tau that all have fast skimmers only hit on 6+ that can shoot the holy crap out of your chasing infantry in return?
There are lots of dark holes of unknown rules still in the codex so there might very well be balance in the end but for now it looks kind of bleak and over specialized.

Paladins are not a Weaker Version of Bloodcrushers; they're 2+4++, armed with Nemesis Force Weapons etc. If anything, they're a stronger version of Nobs.

And more expensive too.
At least you can easily mass nobs and are pretty guaranteed to give them free 4+ cover saves vs all shooting due to the mass of cheap boys that can cover them.

Judging from what is being reported so far, Grey Knights will only really have a problem against Mechanised or maybe Eldar.

So they will have a hard time against 95% of all other armies out there. Wonderful!

I wonder what Inquisitor Valeria's model will look like. I hope it isn't one of those incredibly douchey models that they use for the female WH inquisitors right now, because those are just... wrong, with their ridiculous hair and angular man-faces.

Hehe the hair dos are pretty awesome
I´we been wanting to get one of those minis to paint up for ages now.
The rumored detail level of the GK army models will have me buy bucketloads of them no matter if the codex is playable/balanced or not.

Personally I can see a lot more playability with this book than the current one.

Balanced playability? Competitive?
Damn I hope you are right since GKs just scream "fun and awesome" to me.

I see a lot of fancy stuff from these Rumors and a lot of units buffing each other and a load of heroes that change the way you play and a couple of units of super heavy infantry and some robots...

Yup - it all looks a bit Menoth to me.

Note: I know 40K has been out a lot longer than WM, but this is just my opinion that whoever wrote the codex might have been playing a little too much WM.

Pyriel- wrote:How on earth will this codex stand a chance vs a mech list like IG or anything else with good AV mech for that matter

How on earth will a chaos daemon army stand a chance against this codex? If you show up with daemons, do you just auto-lose to grey knights?

Redbeard wrote:

Pyriel- wrote:How on earth will this codex stand a chance vs a mech list like IG or anything else with good AV mech for that matter

How on earth will a chaos daemon army stand a chance against this codex? If you show up with daemons, do you just auto-lose to grey knights?

Generally yes. But it's about the same with current book isn't it?

I'm tentatively optimistic about the codex so far. Aside from the "Dreadknight" I'm feeling good about just about every unit entry so far:

-Purgation Squads (if the "Auto Cannons on crack" profile from BoK pans out) will do well with AT and little tricks involving LoS with their psychic power

-The general psychic powers in general seem really nice (Hammerhand + Mind Blades = wounding on a 2+ again for most units), and Warp Rift and Sanctuary are probably my favorite powers as they're rumored.

-I would like the anti-horde power of the rumored Purifier squads to be more of a general ability rather than one on a Elite slot, as it specializes the unit a bit, but that said they could probably tear through a unit of Boyz/Gaunts at a time.

-Even if Coteaz is the only character to unlock Henchmen as Troops, it looks as though the sheer variety of choices available to those units will outweigh the vanilla-ness of the HQ. I wonder if they'll make Inquisitors a 1-3 choice...

Going to wait for more before deciding how to build the army but I think I've decided to restart my old Ordo Malleus list.

PS - To those of you who own the old PAGK models, I wouldn't worry about not having an all-halberd unit. Anyone who would seriously complain about you using it isn't worth playing against anyways.

bhsman wrote:I'm tentatively optimistic about the codex so far. Aside from the "Dreadknight" I'm feeling good about just about every unit entry so far.

Well, if you're talking about Competitiveness, the Dreadknight apparently has T7, W4, 2+/4++ which to me sound very good; like a Wraithlord but much better.


@Pyriel - personally, I'm not going to both debating the competitiveness of the Grey Knights with you; you seem to have made up your mind all ready IMO and the details are still in the dark.

T7 W4 2+/4++ MC?

Yikes, sounds terrifying. Can't wait!

Is there rumored to be a new kit for the Dreadknight? Is there a rundown of rumored new models that I am missing? Thanks for all the info!

The rules as a whole seem to make a balanced army, anyone looking for the next "broken" codex probably won't find it with GK. They will just probably have the "wtf is that" shock value that Daemons had at first, then everyone will learn the tricks and how to counter them. Eagerly awaiting pics of new plastics, appreciative of the rumors so far.

Is there rumored to be a new kit for the Dreadknight?

Oh, yeah.

Pyriel- wrote:
Not that poor.
Vanguards dont cost an arm and a leg naked.
They can all gear out uniquely.
They have a 3+ inv save option.
They can be a great deal more mobile.
They have the means to assault instantly not wasting time taking fire.

But that was not my point, it was that the oh so awesome paladins will cost an insane amount of points when properly geared out OR be forced to be used in very small squads and they still have a big weakness that can easily make them into an eggs-in-basket unit and not a overpowered unit present in each and every GK army.

They cost...60 points more than a regular Terminator Assault Unit. If you asked any Vanilla Marine player if they would trade;

A 3++ for a 4++
Get two wounds with unique allocation
Get a FNP option
WS 5
Force Weapons
Access to unique wargear

....well as a Vanilla marine player, I say yes. I don't know how often you've been exposed to unique Nobz but I can tell you a 4+/4+ unique allocation makes them all but immune to small arms fire. The Paladins will have a 2+/4+ allocation status....which means the bane of Terminators everywhere (Dakka fire) will be severely hampered with these guys. AP weaponry don't kill TH/SS Terms---dakka fire does. I've rarely lost my terms to melta/plasma----but have lost them many times to making 15 saves. The Paladins will handle that quite well.

I have no idea on the analogy you're making to Vanguard. They are two completely different units.

Lord_Astaroth wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:I'm pretty much calling bull on 99% of these rumours.

Interestingly enough, right around this time of the year/timeframe before release is when we started seeing the rumours for the 'Real!111!! Blood Angels Codex' that was used as a joke by the Warseer rumormongers.

'

Though some of it happens to look odd/overpowered, just think what happened when the latest Imperial Guard and Blood Angels books came out. They seemed very odd. Think of it. "Wait, you mean they get SQUADS of Leman Russ tanks and they are a single heavy support choice?"

The difference is we'd pretty much known that "Leman Russ Squadrons" would be in as a heavy support choice. The push towards vehicles that we were seeing elsewhere guaranteed it.

Also with Codex: Blood Angels, "Land Raiders as troops transports! HA! Even GW isn't that greedy!"

Land Raiders as troop transports isn't that farfetched, provided they're in an army that isn't known for fielding Terminators outside of(much like the Blood Angels are, actually...) teleport assaults.

Crazy, right?

I'd say that the detail sounds pretty believable in the age of the super codex that we've been seeing lately. Some rules just seem silly until they become mainstream. We'll just have to wait and see.

I really wouldn't call this the "age of the super codex". We've yet to see anything that even remotely comes close to Pete Haines' loving "Iron Warriors" army list.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Vhalyar wrote:
8 8 4 4 2 7 4 10 4+ Assassin stat line.

This makes Phoenix Lords cry.

Presumably, Exarchs, Autarchs, and Phoenix Lords will see a major boost in power to match...

Definatly going to be building a super terminator list...

although i would of likes IST's or Penal legions as options...

or even better a "reverse allies" type rule called something like "requisition" where Inquisitors could take options from other imperial codexes Foc slots...

Just Dave wrote:Btw, judging from what some have said and the naming and design of some things...

... Tenner that this is a Matt Ward Codex.

This makes me sad :(

Kurb wrote:

Just Dave wrote:Btw, judging from what some have said and the naming and design of some things...

... Tenner that this is a Matt Ward Codex.

This makes me sad :(

He's their 2nd best Dex writer behind Kelly IMHO. Worst case scenario---it's Cruddance.

I dunno, personally I prefer Cruddance. Then again, this is like the lesser of two evils and this isn't the time for such a discussion...

Gibbsey wrote:Definatly going to be building a super terminator list...

although i would of likes IST's or Penal legions as options...

or even better a "reverse allies" type rule called something like "requisition" where Inquisitors could take options from other imperial codexes Foc slots...

That's what they had before and it had plenty of unintended consequences as time moved along, just as the ally rules did. I severely doubt it.

There are Inquisitorial henchmen with access to Lascannons, Multimeltas and heavy flamers that are essentially twin-linked. As in, they come equipped with all 3.

It also remains to be seen how the Warrior Acolyte henchmen can be armed. If they can have melta guns and are reasonably costed (12 + 10 for MG maybe). You could use MSU Henchmen in Chimeras as your anti-tank.
Besides, imo squads of 4x Psycannons that can move 30" to get side shots seem like they would be adequate vs most mech lists. Maybe not ones with loads of AV14, but that is pretty rare as is.

It feels like their lack of anti-tank seems to be exaggerated at this stage, before we can see a full list of war gear and options.

I am, at this stage, excited about the army getting a reboot; considering the current GK army has so few options (not competitive options, I mean options period) that I am happy with the news so far.


Btw, I think Paladins are very reasonably priced at 55 points. Pricey for sure, but could form possibly the best Deathstar unit in the game, with almost none of the weaknesses of normal terminators but with substantially more options available, including Holocaust/FNP to mitigate swarms, 4+ save and wound games to mitigate power weapon/plasma spam. I really can't wait to see all the options available to them.

grobbicull wrote:I am just looking to clarify: you can take an infinite number of Henchman mobs? So suck it up and put in 200pts of grey knights and you have an inquisition army.

Why would an Ordo Hereticus army take Grey Knights? Or has the fluff/rules changed on this? I hope we get Inquisitorial Stormtroopers; they're needed.

That's what they had before and it had plenty of unintended consequences as time moved along, just as the ally rules did. I severely doubt it.

What was so bad about the allies rule? It seems to me that *so far* they've simply not bothered to replace the ally rule properly (as in; forcing the =I= to rely on Grey Knights)

Magister187 wrote:It also remains to be seen how the Warrior Acolyte henchmen can be armed. If they can have melta guns and are reasonably costed (12 + 10 for MG maybe). You could use MSU Henchmen in Chimeras as your anti-tank.
Besides, imo squads of 4x Psycannons that can move 30" to get side shots seem like they would be adequate vs most mech lists. Maybe not ones with loads of AV14, but that is pretty rare as is.

It feels like their lack of anti-tank seems to be exaggerated at this stage, before we can see a full list of war gear and options.

A warrior acolyte with a melta gun is considerably less than 22 pts

can anyone of you commonwealth folks who have seen the codex (hey, what's up with the leaks only in canada and oz?!?!?) confirm what weapons the grey knight special characters are using? i've got an inquisitor rex model that i'd love to use as a grand master or inquisitor lord without worrying about opponent's permission. any of them specifically have a sword and storm shield or at least the options to upgrade to it?

H.B.M.C. wrote:

And as people have correctly guessed what the common name in this Codex is (Nemesis), compared to the BA Codex where it was Blood, I'll repost what I had in the last thread - the weapon that the Dreadknight has - and you can resume guessing the rest:

"Nemesis ****fist"

Guessing this weapon name will likely reveal the writer of this Codex at the same time, and as I've said before, it ain't Kelly.

Since I'm relatively new to the hobby, I don't know who he may mean but does anyone else have any idea? It seems that guessing the author is one of the big unknowns that everybody wants an answer to, including me even though I won't know what it actually means whoever it is lol!

Mr Hyena wrote:

That's what they had before and it had plenty of unintended consequences as time moved along, just as the ally rules did. I severely doubt it.

What was so bad about the allies rule? It seems to me that *so far* they've simply not bothered to replace the ally rule properly (as in; forcing the =I= to rely on Grey Knights)

Nothing about it being bad, but plenty of unintended consequences.

The allies went from weak in 3rd ed to very powerful with the addition of the 5th Ed Guard codex. (Full Platoons with better Chimeras could be allied now.)

Where as the original C:WH and C: DH had Guard/SM as a sideline that could be added to your army in small amounts, the consequence of the allies rule in 5th ed was that that ratio completely changed. Again, not saying that's bad, but certainly not intended by the original codex.

ColdSadHungry wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

And as people have correctly guessed what the common name in this Codex is (Nemesis), compared to the BA Codex where it was Blood, I'll repost what I had in the last thread - the weapon that the Dreadknight has - and you can resume guessing the rest:

"Nemesis ****fist"

Guessing this weapon name will likely reveal the writer of this Codex at the same time, and as I've said before, it ain't Kelly.

Since I'm relatively new to the hobby, I don't know who he may mean but does anyone else have any idea? It seems that guessing the author is one of the big unknowns that everybody wants an answer to, including me even though I won't know what it actually means whoever it is lol!

If it has a repeating name in front of weapons, it's Ward. For example, the Blood Angels;

They don't have power fists, they have Blood Fists.
They don't have lightning claws, they have Blood Talons.
They don't have dark skies, they have Skies of Blood.
They don't eat Crispy Rice before going on their spearhead, they eat Bloody Rice.
etc.

Seems like if it is him, he's taking some cues from Kelly in his elite unit construction (Multiple wounds, unique gear). Good for him, as I stated earlier---I consider him their 2nd best.

Now the Apothicary upgrade to the 2 wound terminators:

1.Its 75pts to add the apothecary right? not to upgrade i hope..
2. is it limited to 1 per squad?
3.Same stats as the rest of the unit?

Just Dave wrote:Well, if you're talking about Competitiveness, the Dreadknight apparently has T7, W4, 2+/4++ which to me sound very good; like a Wraithlord but much better.

Oh I'm not worried about its competitiveness, going by those stats, I meant more in the "This is really, really, really dumb in concept."

Aren't the jokaero *sp?* apparently Obliterator equivalents in terms of the amount of weapons they carry?

The presence of the Ordo Xenos Inquisitor makes me wonder if we'll get an Codex: Ordo Xenos or Codex: Deathwatch in a while.

Mr Hyena wrote:The presence of the Ordo Xenos Inquisitor makes me wonder if we'll get an Codex: Ordo Xenos or Codex: Deathwatch in a while.

Why would they have overlap? Seems like this would indicate just the opposite. This is GW throwing Xenos and Hereticus a bone since they won't get any other support. (My guess.)

I'll just be happy to unpack the callidus assassin again!

Kurgash wrote:Aren't the jokaero *sp?* apparently Obliterator equivalents in terms of the amount of weapons they carry?

Yes, they also add a random upgrade to the entire unit

Tanus wrote:

Kurgash wrote:Aren't the jokaero *sp?* apparently Obliterator equivalents in terms of the amount of weapons they carry?

Yes, they also add a random upgrade to the entire unit

Uh, what?

Jokaero are just orangutan mechanics-- IN SPAAAAAAAAAAACE!

Kanluwen wrote:

Tanus wrote:

Kurgash wrote:Aren't the jokaero *sp?* apparently Obliterator equivalents in terms of the amount of weapons they carry?

Yes, they also add a random upgrade to the entire unit

Uh, what?

Jokaero are just orangutan mechanics-- IN SPAAAAAAAAAAACE!

Space monkeys with death rays that can count as either a Lascannon, Multi-Melta, or Heavy Flamer. The also add a random upgrade like giving the unit rending or increasing the range of all weapons by 12"

Ah, so it's matt ward huh?

Well, if he wrote the blood angels codex, I wonder how cheesy codex grey knights will be? Blood angels seems to get a lot of negative comments.

I just hope that Ward didn't think, 'I'll learn from my mistakes' and end up under powering Grey Knights because people seem to think that blood angels are overpowered.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why I call BS on these rumours.

Why the feth are the Jokaero in the Grey Knights codex? Why they feth are they in an Imperial codex, at all?

The only mention previous was that the Jokaero were at one point known to be "masterful craftsmen, with some Inquisitors bearing digital weapons that were on par with the Jokaero's creations".

JohnHwangDD wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

Vhalyar wrote:
8 8 4 4 2 7 4 10 4+ Assassin stat line.

This makes Phoenix Lords cry.

Presumably, Exarchs, Autarchs, and Phoenix Lords will see a major boost in power to match...

Dark Eldar implies there's zero chance of that.

Archons and Incubi Phoenix Lord didn't get a boost.

I still can't believe GW's bringing back Jokaero...

Blow up that Wave Serpent you damn dirty ape!

Oh, that's far too accurate. Remember what they did to a wolf with Canis McWolferson on a Thunderwolf with Wolfclaws.

So we need to blend an Orangutan with an angry bobcat- Kilrathi might be a closer equivalent- from the Wing Commander movie.

Or cut out the middle man, and paint a Wampa Orange.

Alpharius wrote:I still can't believe GW's bringing back Jokaero...

Good thing there's already a model for them!

Are we sure that this jokaero thing isn't just based on someone asking whether jokaero are part of the henchmen retinue? Based on that rumour from a month or so back about jokaero because someone asked about digital weapons?

Or has the jokaero actually been listed in this latest batch of more solid sounding rumours?

I really don't want to have to field a space ape. Unless it's absolutely necessary, I won't be parting with my cash to field one of these, frankly ridiculous monkeys. I know I couldn't keep a straight face if my opponent had a few in his army because without them, his anti tank weaponry just wasn't good enough.

R3con wrote:I'll just be happy to unpack the callidus assassin again!

Unpack?! Mine got a new base and new paint job... and still hasn't missed the table (in my SoB army)... she's terrifying against "Hero-Hammer" players... and can fully wipe a terminator squad in one swoop... she has never not seen the table in 1000+ points, in my games

I just hope they either leave her as is... or improve her (beyond the statline).

EDIT: Haha wow, nevermind

Just Dave wrote:

bhsman wrote:I'm tentatively optimistic about the codex so far. Aside from the "Dreadknight" I'm feeling good about just about every unit entry so far.

Well, if you're talking about Competitiveness, the Dreadknight apparently has T7, W4, 2+/4++ which to me sound very good; like a Wraithlord but much better.

The Wraithlord is still T8 (OMG!!!), but that 4++ will cover for a lot of sloppiness.

Vhalyar wrote:

Alpharius wrote:I still can't believe GW's bringing back Jokaero...

Good thing there's already a model for them!

Oh, VERY good call there!

bhsman wrote:Aside from the "Dreadknight" I'm feeling good about just about every unit entry so far:

Since Im just in it for the minis, thats the unit Im looking forward to seeing most. I know the GKT plastics will be cool, thats a given. Im really hoping that the dreadknight will be well done and not just a modded SM dread. Im also hoping it doesnt have the Hulk Hogan body with midget legs that the current SM dreads have.

Heard the Jokaero bit on a Fritz vid where he said it was the one thing he could disclose about the codex, a vid from back in december if I recall. Still hard to believe it's true.

And here's the "Stormtrooper" rumor for anyone who uses them:

Warrior acolyte:

replace laspistol and chainsword with one of...
bolt gun
storm bolter
hot shot lasgun
combi weapon
power sword/or plasma pistol
storm shield
power fist

Any can have....
carapace
power armor
meltabombs

I reserve judgement on Jokaero until I see design/new fluff. No need to gak all over them yet boys, this could turn out to be awesome! They will likely bear little resemblance to their former fluff except for a few fundamentals... So really we have no clue what we may be in for, so let's just keep our torches at the ready but unlit shall we?

No matter what, Jokaero are stupid. They make Vespid look cool.

MajorTom11 wrote:I reserve judgement on Jokaero until I see design/new fluff. No need to gak all over them yet boys, this could turn out to be awesome! They will likely bear little resemblance to their former fluff except for a few fundamentals... So really we have no clue what we may be in for, so let's just keep our torches at the ready but unlit shall we?

I am outraged at your call for cool heads and calm tone!

We must rage at the perceived injustices contained within internet rumors and what they portend!!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kanluwen wrote:No matter what, Jokaero are stupid. They make Vespid look cool.

The less a man makes declarative statements, the less apt he is to look foolish in retrospect.

Kroothawk wrote:Paladins = 2 wounded terminators (they can have an apothecary in the squad)

SS allowed? That'd be mean. 2+/3++/4+++.

Kanluwen wrote:No matter what, Jokaero are stupid. They make Vespid look cool.

pretre wrote:

MajorTom11 wrote:I reserve judgement on Jokaero until I see design/new fluff. No need to gak all over them yet boys, this could turn out to be awesome! They will likely bear little resemblance to their former fluff except for a few fundamentals... So really we have no clue what we may be in for, so let's just keep our torches at the ready but unlit shall we?

I am outraged at your call for cool heads and calm tone!

We must rage at the perceived injustices contained within internet rumors and what they portend!!!

And I'm outraged that people find it acceptable for Jokaero to be in Codex: Grey Knights of all bloody places. The Imperium went out of its way to attempt to exterminate the Jokaero. Why the feth are they in the codex for one of the most fanatically loyal parts of the Imperium?

Kanluwen wrote:No matter what, Jokaero are stupid. They make Vespid look cool.

The less a man makes declarative statements, the less apt he is to look foolish in retrospect.

And the less people try to justify Jokaero as being anything more than someone misinterpreting what will, quite likely, be "Jokaero Digital Weapons" the less of these crappy rumours we'll see

Kanluwen wrote:

pretre wrote:
I am outraged at your call for cool heads and calm tone!
We must rage at the perceived injustices contained within internet rumors and what they portend!!!

And I'm outraged that people find it acceptable for Jokaero to be in Codex: Grey Knights of all bloody places. The Imperium went out of its way to attempt to exterminate the Jokaero. Why the feth are they in the codex for one of the most fanatically loyal parts of the Imperium?

Calm down, killer. I was parodying the exact kind of behavior you are exemplifying.

One could excuse them for the same reason you could excuse Daemonhosts in Codex: Grey Knights OABP*. Inquisitors do their own thing.

* My new favorite way to refer to the GK codex.

Seeing the word, "ARGUMENTS" misspelled makes a lot of people cry. Computers and the Internet provide easy access to spell checking. Surely, superhuman Space Marines should know this.

MajorTom11 wrote:

MajorTom11 wrote:
Major Tom Crying

Nicely done, sir!

Vhalyar wrote:And here's the "Stormtrooper" rumor for anyone who uses them:

Warrior acolyte:

replace laspistol and chainsword with one of...
bolt gun
storm bolter
hot shot lasgun
combi weapon
power sword/or plasma pistol
storm shield
power fist

Any can have....
carapace
power armor
meltabombs

OK, how much are the:
- Sisters (Bolter & PA)
- Stormies (Carapace & hotshot lasgun)
- Crusaders (Carapace, Storm Shield & Power Weapon)
- Combat Servitors (Carapace & Power Fist)

How on earth will a chaos daemon army stand a chance against this codex? If you show up with daemons, do you just auto-lose to grey knights?

Absolutely, this, being overpowerd vs one army, is preferred to being underpowered to 9 armies.
Deamons are what, 2-5% of all armies the normal player faces whereas mechanized cheese, eldar, tau and dark eldar is 90% so I´d rather this army was balanced to those 90% then one rarely seen army.
Pure logic!

But then there were (are?) rumors deamon armies will receive some form of boost if facing GK.
They might still end up balanced.

-The general psychic powers in general seem really nice (Hammerhand + Mind Blades = wounding on a 2+ again for most units), and Warp Rift and Sanctuary are probably my favorite powers as they're rumored.

The way I see it the psychic powers will be balanced by only being able to take one.
Its the only logical thing I see GW doing and still having a "lowly" pointcost of 200-300p per GK squad.

A GK squad comes with ONE power, hammerhand being standard.
Then you can CHANGE that power for others from a list, maybe with a point cost added to it.
Thus if you want a S5 GK squad they wont be able to deny deepstrike or mindblade things.
And if you want to use the force weapon ability you will have to skip using the hammerhand or whatever power you have.
If you want to have shrouded GK squads then you will have to throw away hammerhand in exchange for shrouding etc etc.

All in all this will make some crappy GK squads that cant really do anything except one thing.

I´m not saying this is so and I hope more then one power can be taken so that GK squads can choose between powers every turn but I expect this to be super expensive too.

@Pyriel - personally, I'm not going to both debating the competitiveness of the Grey Knights with you; you seem to have made up your mind all ready IMO and the details are still in the dark.

Nope I havent, I am merely cautious on the negative side over things that sound to good to be true. When logic is applied things slide down pretty much in power.

Is there rumored to be a new kit for the Dreadknight? Is there a rundown of rumored new models that I am missing? Thanks for all the info!

Hope it gets released with the first wave of knights. I´m buying 3 of them right away

....well as a Vanilla marine player, I say yes. I don't know how often you've been exposed to unique Nobz

lol
I own about 7000p of marines and 3000p of orks with lots and lots of nobs and nob bikers in there so dont worry, I know all about taking care of nobs with SM and nob weaknesses.
Lets just agree to disagreeing for now till we know more about the GK rules ok?

Presumably, Exarchs, Autarchs, and Phoenix Lords will see a major boost in power to match...

Oh noes, more 300+ point HQs *sigh*.
This is turning into some form of old fantasy game with my HQ and some side riffraff vs your HQ and some assorted rabble


Besides now when we know a little about GK psychic powers where are the inquisitor powers that are rumored to be really beefed up?
So far I havent seen any beefed up psychic powers except one but those were for GKs.

There are Inquisitorial henchmen with access to Lascannons, Multimeltas and heavy flamers that are essentially twin-linked. As in, they come equipped with all 3.

Would those be the jokaero mini-obliterators?
Probably some fragile easy to kill glasscannon minis for 50p a piece I guess.
Now wonder if they look like orangutangs with obliterator gear on them

It feels like their lack of anti-tank seems to be exaggerated at this stage, before we can see a full list of war gear and options.

Dunno, relying on S7 shooting weapons to crack tanks seems to be a pretty desperate measure in my opinion.

Wonder if all the weird henchmen options will get minis and be released with the first wave or if all henchmen already exist in the forms of older inquisitor retinues.
Would be a pretty expensive endeavor to buy 10-20 metal crusader minis for your henchmen squads.

Btw, I think Paladins are very reasonably priced at 55 points. Pricey for sure, but could form possibly the best Deathstar unit in the game, with almost none of the weaknesses of normal terminators but with substantially more options available, including Holocaust/FNP to mitigate swarms, 4+ save and wound games to mitigate power weapon/plasma spam. I really can't wait to see all the options available to them.

Probably vanguard clones, you can give them hammers at 30p a piece etc etc and end up with a 1000p unit so they will probably be used "naked" with just one or two wargears added, just like vanguards are...whenever they are in use that is.
Otherwise they would indeed be almost game breaking.

A warrior acolyte with a melta gun is considerably less than 22 pts

What bothers me the most is do you NEED to pollute a GK army with inquisitors and henchmen in order to stand a balanced chance vs mech line armies or can both pure GK as well as mixed GK/=I= as well as pure =I= work balanced on their own?

Space monkeys with death rays that can count as either a Lascannon, Multi-Melta, or Heavy Flamer. The also add a random upgrade like giving the unit rending or increasing the range of all weapons by 12"

Geez, range 18-ish heavy flamers?
I dont buy that one.

The only mention previous was that the Jokaero were at one point known to be "masterful craftsmen, with some Inquisitors bearing digital weapons that were on par with the Jokaero's creations".

Yeah, like locked up hi-tech craftsmen forging digital weapons and such stuff, not battlefield monsters in walking gorilla armour suits with heavy weapons on their shoulder mounts

I really don't want to have to field a space ape. Unless it's absolutely necessary, I won't be parting with my cash to field one of these, frankly ridiculous monkeys. I know I couldn't keep a straight face if my opponent had a few in his army because without them, his anti tank weaponry just wasn't good enough.

Well based on the ridiculous beast-henchmen crap of hydras, deamon dogs and mutated floating shrimp dark eldar got I dont rule out space apes for the GK codex

A DE beast army vs a =I= henchmen army would be a very funny sight.

Unpack?! Mine got a new base and new paint job... and still hasn't missed the table (in my SoB army)... she's terrifying against "Hero-Hammer" players... and can fully wipe a terminator squad in one swoop... she has never not seen the table in 1000+ points, in my games

How the heck do you auto-wipe a termie squad with a calluidus???

The Wraithlord is still T8 (OMG!!!), but that 4++ will cover for a lot of sloppiness.

And the 2+ save will cover for missile hits contrary to the wraithlords 3+ save.

Since Im just in it for the minis, thats the unit Im looking forward to seeing most. I know the GKT plastics will be cool, thats a given. Im really hoping that the dreadknight will be well done and not just a modded SM dread. Im also hoping it doesnt have the Hulk Hogan body with midget legs that the current SM dreads have.

Hmm, when I think about it, isnt the dreadknight supposed to be some sort of psychically controlled construct?
If so maybe the dreadknights big weakness will be that is requires a "handler" in the form of a GK model walking next to it...just like the techmarine and thunderfire cannon.
If the "handler" is killed which is pretty damn easy, then the dreadknight buys it as well.

Warrior acolyte:

replace laspistol and chainsword with one of...
bolt gun
storm bolter
hot shot lasgun
combi weapon
power sword/or plasma pistol
storm shield
power fist

Any can have....
carapace
power armor
meltabombs

Oh crap, meaning we will get sisters of battle squads (cheap-O bolter toting power armour infantry).
Melissia will not like this one bit, lol.

I reserve judgement on Jokaero until I see design/new fluff. No need to gak all over them yet boys, this could turn out to be awesome! They will likely bear little resemblance to their former fluff except for a few fundamentals... So really we have no clue what we may be in for, so let's just keep our torches at the ready but unlit shall we?

I for one really welcome them, new and weird stuff like jokaero, strange DE beasts, flying mini thawks, space marines on wolves etc, all those are bold new steps expanding the hobby. If this keeps up maybe we´ll get even more new units and minis to play with as new codexes come out.

I look forward to the new and weird things we get to choose from with this codex.

JohnHwangDD wrote:
OK, how much are the:
- Sisters (Bolter & PA)
- Stormies (Carapace & hotshot lasgun)
- Crusaders (Carapace, Storm Shield & Power Weapon)
- Combat Servitors (Carapace & Power Fist)

+1 JHDD

Nice thought. Put that way, it sounds like the retinues really could be customizable.

With one fell swoop, assuming a character that makes henchman troops and not arguing the right/wrong of that, you could have an alternate Codex: Sister of Battle, Codex: Stormtrooper IG, etc

Hmmm. Now I'm intrigued!

Jokaero?! Seriously?
first there was Canis Wolfborn the space wolf riding a thunderwolf with wolf claws, then there's DS-ing land raiders, dreads hanging onto mini-thunderhawks and psychicMC stats on a 25mm base, now grey knights are friends with highly intelligent apes building laser guns? GW- to us, it's all:
Canis born the space riding a thunder with claws, then there's DS-ing raiders, hanging onto mini-thunder and psychic stats on a 25mm base, now grey knights are friends with highly intelligent building guns. Stop now, lest we all die (AKA you lose your market).

BrassScorpion wrote:Seeing the word, "ARGUMENTS" misspelled makes a lot of people cry. Computers and the Internet provide easy access to spell checking. Surely, superhuman Space Marines should know this.

MajorTom11 wrote:

I do it to draw out the spelling bee storm troopers... it was a test, you failed!

Ok but seriously ya I should fix that lol...

Would you believe me if I told you it was just 1337 speak?

Pyriel- wrote:Wonder if all the weird henchmen options will get minis and be released with the first wave or if all henchmen already exist in the forms of older inquisitor retinues.
Would be a pretty expensive endeavor to buy 10-20 metal crusader minis for your henchmen squads.

I doubt it. I bet Henchmen might get a couple new models for unique types, but the glory of henchmen have been the conversion possibilities and subbing in models from other ranges and armies.

pretre wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

pretre wrote:
I am outraged at your call for cool heads and calm tone!
We must rage at the perceived injustices contained within internet rumors and what they portend!!!

And I'm outraged that people find it acceptable for Jokaero to be in Codex: Grey Knights of all bloody places. The Imperium went out of its way to attempt to exterminate the Jokaero. Why the feth are they in the codex for one of the most fanatically loyal parts of the Imperium?

Calm down, killer. I was parodying the exact kind of behavior you are exemplifying.

One could excuse them for the same reason you could excuse Daemonhosts in Codex: Grey Knights OABP*. Inquisitors do their own thing.

* My new favorite way to refer to the GK codex.

Daemonhosts in a codex that features the Ordo Malleus?

Makes sense. There's radical Inquisitors within the Ordo Malleus who believe the 'weapons of the enemy should be used against them'.

Jokaero though?
Even the Ordo Xenos, the only branch that reasonably has a tie-in to the Jokaero, has no real ties to them outside of collecting their creations after conflicts with the Jokaero.

Kanluwen wrote:Daemonhosts in a codex that features the Ordo Malleus?

Makes sense. There's radical Inquisitors within the Ordo Malleus who believe the 'weapons of the enemy should be used against them'.

Jokaero though?
Even the Ordo Xenos, the only branch that reasonably has a tie-in to the Jokaero, has no real ties to them outside of collecting their creations after conflicts with the Jokaero.

And there's no radical factions in Ordo Xenos? Logical extension, since all the other ordos have Radicals. Ahh, but perhaps not in Codex: GKOABP.

pretre wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:
OK, how much are the:
- Sisters (Bolter & PA)
- Stormies (Carapace & hotshot lasgun)
- Crusaders (Carapace, Storm Shield & Power Weapon)
- Combat Servitors (Carapace & Power Fist)

+1 JHDD

Nice thought. Put that way, it sounds like the retinues really could be customizable.

With one fell swoop, assuming a character that makes henchman troops and not arguing the right/wrong of that, you could have an alternate Codex: Sister of Battle, Codex: Stormtrooper IG, etc

Hmmm. Now I'm intrigued!

I'm liking it.

Sounds to me like we won't need a Sisters Codex for a few more years, as they're nothing more than mere henchwomen who follow the orders of their Inquisitor.

And I'm outraged that people find it acceptable for Jokaero to be in Codex: Grey Knights of all bloody places. The Imperium went out of its way to attempt to exterminate the Jokaero. Why the feth are they in the codex for one of the most fanatically loyal parts of the Imperium?

Ever heard of radical inquisitors?

Damn dude, more options make for more fun lists and games.
Go whine at the DE beast choices, there you have some smoked-up s**t for sure.

IG got new tanks, artillery and chimera chassi vehicles and flyers, DE got new flyers and cronos engine models, SM got thunderfires and legion units (worthless I know), marines riding animals and flying transport bricks etc.
So GKs will also get a new thing or two so what.

One inquisitor locks up the jokaero while another uses it in the field, just like one kills the deamonhost while another uses it just like one uses tau and ork tech and mercenaries while another kills them on sight.
Its what makes the fluff and the game fun.

And the less people try to justify Jokaero as being anything more than someone misinterpreting what will, quite likely, be "Jokaero Digital Weapons" the less of these crappy rumours we'll see

Then we will make bloody internet fools out of ourselves, cry me a river, who cares.
Rumor threads are for debating, guessing, nagging and second guessing and I for one dont have such a low self esteem that I am bothered by being wrong in advance over a rumor. Its not like I am betting heavy money on weather a book will contain an ape or not, geez.

Even the Ordo Xenos, the only branch that reasonably has a tie-in to the Jokaero, has no real ties to them outside of collecting their creations after conflicts with the Jokaero.

I know what you mean but dude, a small paradox like this will just have to be tolerated.
Read up on the chaos SM codex and deamon codex, there are some real big paradoxes that according to your logic would not be allowed.
I mean khorne bloodletters and chaos berzerkers being led and taking orders from a tzench sorceror, plague marines fighting side by side with slanesh maries etc etc
Where is the world coming to!

pretre wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Daemonhosts in a codex that features the Ordo Malleus?

Makes sense. There's radical Inquisitors within the Ordo Malleus who believe the 'weapons of the enemy should be used against them'.

Jokaero though?
Even the Ordo Xenos, the only branch that reasonably has a tie-in to the Jokaero, has no real ties to them outside of collecting their creations after conflicts with the Jokaero.

And there's no radical factions in Ordo Xenos? Logical extension, since all the other ordos have Radicals. Ahh, but perhaps not in Codex: GKOABP.

Now you see the point I'm making really.

What the feth do Jokaero have to do with the Grey Knights? They're not diametrically opposed to Daemons. They're not the native race of Titan or anything even remotely close to the Grey Knights.

Kanluwen wrote:
Now you see the point I'm making really.

What the feth do Jokaero have to do with the Grey Knights? They're not diametrically opposed to Daemons. They're not the native race of Titan or anything even remotely close to the Grey Knights.

And you're not railing against Ordo Xenos or Ordo Hereticus for the same reasons?

pretre wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
Now you see the point I'm making really.

What the feth do Jokaero have to do with the Grey Knights? They're not diametrically opposed to Daemons. They're not the native race of Titan or anything even remotely close to the Grey Knights.

And you're not railing against Ordo Xenos or Ordo Hereticus for the same reasons?

or even demon hosts? i mean arnt grey knights opposed to fighting with an inquisitor that uses demon hosts?

JohnHwangDD wrote:I'm liking it.

Sounds to me like we won't need a Sisters Codex for a few more years, as they're nothing more than mere henchwomen who follow the orders of their Inquisitor.

lol You're just asking for trouble now.

Jokaero are extinct apes that make stupidly advanced weapons that inquisitors sometimes use. Daemonhosts are captured daemons wich radical inquisitors sometimes use to fight it's own kind. GK won't fight with radicals, but they won't execute them. After all, they're still loyal to da emprah and hunt daemons. Jokaero? They have no ties to GK whatsoever.
This isn't about daemonhosts anyway, it's about Jokaero.

pretre wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:I'm liking it.

Sounds to me like we won't need a Sisters Codex for a few more years, as they're nothing more than mere henchwomen who follow the orders of their Inquisitor.

lol You're just asking for trouble now.

Why?

Is it not true?

Gibbsey wrote:

pretre wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
Now you see the point I'm making really.

What the feth do Jokaero have to do with the Grey Knights? They're not diametrically opposed to Daemons. They're not the native race of Titan or anything even remotely close to the Grey Knights.

And you're not railing against Ordo Xenos or Ordo Hereticus for the same reasons?

or even demon hosts? i mean arnt grey knights opposed to fighting with an inquisitor that uses demon hosts?

Grey Knights can't fight with Inquisitors using Daemonhosts--or at least when Daemonhosts were introduced in Daemonhunters they couldn't.

I'd be surprised if we didn't see the same thing, frankly.

Jokaero Weaponsmith: 1 3 2 3 1 3 1 8 -

Digital Weapons
5+ Invulnerable save

Special Rules: Jokaero Ingenuity, Inconcievable Customisation

JI: Can use their weapon as either a LC, MM, HF
IC: Roll on a chart, give squad an upgrade. Modified by how many Jokaero are in the unit

shrike wrote:GK won't fight with radicals, but they won't execute them. After all, they're still loyal to da emprah and hunt daemons.

Umm. The whole point of the kind of Radicals who use Daemonhosts and such is that if their true methods were exposed, they would be hunted and killed. The GK certainly wouldn't let them go.

P 11 - C: DH - 'The creation of such blasphemous entities is enough for an Inquisitor to be declared Excommunicate Traitoris, and hunted until death by a jury of his peers.'

Kanluwen wrote:

Gibbsey wrote:

pretre wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
Now you see the point I'm making really.

What the feth do Jokaero have to do with the Grey Knights? They're not diametrically opposed to Daemons. They're not the native race of Titan or anything even remotely close to the Grey Knights.

And you're not railing against Ordo Xenos or Ordo Hereticus for the same reasons?

or even demon hosts? i mean arnt grey knights opposed to fighting with an inquisitor that uses demon hosts?

Grey Knights can't fight with Inquisitors using Daemonhosts--or at least when Daemonhosts were introduced in Daemonhunters they couldn't.

I'd be surprised if we didn't see the same thing, frankly.

You can take Daemonhosts in any Inquisitor's retinue

So, the warrior acolyte can take bolters, power swords, power fists, storm shields and power armour.

Does this mean that we can take space marine models and stick them in as 'henchmen'? It would be pretty funny to see an inquisitor with what looks like a space marine retinue.

Tanus wrote:Jokaero Weaponsmith: 1 3 2 3 1 3 1 8 -

Digital Weapons
5+ Invulnerable save

Special Rules: Jokaero Ingenuity, Inconcievable Customisation

JI: Can use their weapon as either a LC, MM, HF
IC: Roll on a chart, give squad an upgrade. Modified by how many Jokaero are in the unit

lol, they actually DID put them in?! Part of the Inq. retinue?

ColdSadHungry wrote:So, the warrior acolyte can take bolters, power swords, power fists, storm shields and power armour.

Does this mean that we can take space marine models and stick them in as 'henchmen'? It would be pretty funny to see an inquisitor with what looks like a space marine retinue.

Yeah, but they'd be S3 T3

Guess Tanus found himself a leaked copy, since he's johnny on the spot with answered questions.

Tanus wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Gibbsey wrote:

pretre wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
Now you see the point I'm making really.

What the feth do Jokaero have to do with the Grey Knights? They're not diametrically opposed to Daemons. They're not the native race of Titan or anything even remotely close to the Grey Knights.

And you're not railing against Ordo Xenos or Ordo Hereticus for the same reasons?

or even demon hosts? i mean arnt grey knights opposed to fighting with an inquisitor that uses demon hosts?

Grey Knights can't fight with Inquisitors using Daemonhosts--or at least when Daemonhosts were introduced in Daemonhunters they couldn't.

I'd be surprised if we didn't see the same thing, frankly.

You can take Daemonhosts in any Inquisitor's retinue

And I refuse to believe any of these rumours until I see the book on preorder and from the black box at my FLGS.

Too many of the rumormongers out there latch onto these outlandish rumors rather than shoot them down, simply because they don't want to look like they don't know it.

Tanus wrote:

ColdSadHungry wrote:So, the warrior acolyte can take bolters, power swords, power fists, storm shields and power armour.

Does this mean that we can take space marine models and stick them in as 'henchmen'? It would be pretty funny to see an inquisitor with what looks like a space marine retinue.

Yeah, but they'd be S3 T3

So? Use the RT-era models.

Pyriel- wrote:
Deamons are what, 2-5% of all armies the normal player faces whereas mechanized cheese, eldar, tau and dark eldar is 90% so I´d rather this army was balanced to those 90% then one rarely seen army.

Wait, what? Are you playing in some deformed environment where 90% of armies aren't Space Marines?

I can't believe no one has mentioned it yet, but I can see Inquisitorial Henchmen as a fantastic unit in MSU armies. Assuming they work as rumored, you could have 3 PW/SS guys and 3 Melta gunner Acolytes. In a Razorback. Um... yes, please!

Yeah Inq. Henchmen seem kind of neat and offer nice conversion possibilities.

I'm really let down on the Grey Knight standard trooper though. A basic marine stat line? 1 friggin' attack? What the hell?

So an =I= pure army seems to be completely reliant on a 'Counts As' for Coteaz to get a full army of Inquisitorial Mobs.

Is this their way of getting around the Allies rule? by using an ultra-customisable retinue squad?

GK won't fight with radicals, but they won't execute them. After all, they're still loyal to da emprah and hunt daemons

So khorne berzerkers led by a tzench sorceror is ok?
What about bloodletters fighting alongside horrors?

Then I guess having an ape and a deamonhost in a GK codex is no bigger a crime.

Wait, what? Are you playing in some deformed environment where 90% of armies aren't Space Marines?

Yes but 90% are m e c h space marines.

I'm really let down on the Grey Knight standard trooper though. A basic marine stat line? 1 friggin' attack? What the hell?

Maybe they´ll get an extra attack counting the stormbolter as a one arm weapon.
Otherwise yes, they would truly suck for those points.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Is it not true?

My head asplode.

Hmm...All this new info to me smells like the hoax BA Codex that was making the rounds before the real one was released. I could be wrong, but these rumors smell pretty funky. Kinda like someone got ahold of an early copy of the playtest rules before GW started toning things down.

That said, if the Warrior Henchmen can get shotguns, then this could be another alternate ruleset to play Adeptus Arbites.

What, no one has jumped in to mention that yellow monkeys who are good with technology is just wee tad racist?

Why next thing you know GW will say that dark-skinned marines are deviant mutants!

Manchu wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:Is it not true?

My head asplode.

Glad to help!

So you can have henchman squads of 10 in Power Armor with Combi-Weapons riding in Chimeras? As Troops (with SC)? With a Jokaero or two in the squad to makes them even more shooty? Dang...

The Jokaero tie-in really makes no sense.

And if Vindicaire assassins have unlimited special ammo and can be taken multiple times (can anyone confirm?), then GK won't lack for anti mech at all. 3 near-auto-hitting turbo penetrators a turn should crump AV of all values.

If they get any real nonsense like AP1, then Vindicaires and scoring Terminators is all the entire army needs to be viable. Snipe lascannon and plasmagun toters, put mega death shots through AV14. AV10-11 spam could be an issue but if psycannons are availalbe then not even then.

Jaon wrote:Is the misspelling of the word "grey" an internet meme or something...?

As noted it's a US/UK thing.

Moreover by the terms of the Treaty of Usenet which brought an end to the Great Flame Wars of 1994 attacking someone's spelling on the internet is not acceptable behavior. It's like making fun of your friend for saying 'um' in a sentence. None of us are writing our docteral thesis here.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:None of us are writing our docteral thesis here.

Shouldn't that be doctoral?

Kid_Kyoto wrote:What, no one has jumped in to mention that yellow monkeys who are good with technology is just wee tad racist?

Why next thing you know GW will say that dark-skinned marines are deviant mutants!

i can't really tell if you're joking with that so i'll wait for a clarification.

also, since my question got buried in pages and pages of space monkey posts, i'll ask again... any special characters with an option for a powersword and stormshield? poppa's got an inquisitor rex model he wants to use without permission!

Pyriel- wrote:

I don't think that anyone will care what the official GW spelling is (British) when they can use their own language with equal ease.

Exactly! Armour - armor, grey - gray, who gives a crap, we all know and understand what is being said.

Look, I was just asking why everyone is saying gray, and it was explained that is is a correct spelling. You can drop it now.

sourclams wrote:
And if Vindicaire assassins have unlimited special ammo and can be taken multiple times (can anyone confirm?), then GK won't lack for anti mech at all. 3 near-auto-hitting turbo penetrators a turn should crump AV of all values.

Is the turbo-penetrator getting a boost in some way? While it can penetrate vehicles now, it's pretty unreliable.

shrike wrote:Jokaero?! Seriously?
first there was Canis Wolfborn the space wolf riding a thunderwolf with wolf claws, then there's DS-ing land raiders, dreads hanging onto mini-thunderhawks and psychicMC stats on a 25mm base, now grey knights are friends with highly intelligent apes building laser guns? GW- to us, it's all:
Canis born the space riding a thunder with claws, then there's DS-ing raiders, hanging onto mini-thunder and psychic stats on a 25mm base, now grey knights are friends with highly intelligent building guns. Stop now, lest we all die (AKA you lose your market).

Hence the reason I dont play the game. Well among other reasons anyways, theres very little I like about the current iteration of 40K. I use the minis for another rules system. There are several good ones out there with creation rules, allowing you to use any minis from any game in them.

To me GW is good for minis and fun fluff, thats all.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Pyriel- wrote:

Is there rumored to be a new kit for the Dreadknight? Is there a rundown of rumored new models that I am missing? Thanks for all the info!

Hope it gets released with the first wave of knights. I´m buying 3 of them right away

Im looking forward to seeing how they do it, but Ill reserve excitement until I see the thing.

If they make it cool and metal Ill buy 1.

If they make it cool and plastic Ill buy 2 or 3.

If they make it dumb Ill just sit here being not surprised at all.

Mad4Minis wrote:To me GW is good for minis and fun fluff, thats all.


Im looking forward to seeing how they do it, but Ill reserve excitement until I see the thing.
If they make it cool and metal Ill buy 1.
If they make it cool and plastic Ill buy 2 or 3.
If they make it dumb Ill just sit here being not surprised at all.

Exactly. Nice minis = Buy! Bad minis = Pass.

When the BA Codex came out, I budgeted to buy a couple SRGs. Then I saw the pics. Oh well, more money for something else!

I am liking this less and less. The thing that made me want to get involved with the Imperium was the Inquisitation. I loved the fluff etc.
But I didn't see much point with GKs. I like the SoB (the idea of Nuns with Guns in space is awesome).
What I am seeing from these rumours looks so much more like a version of BA (and lack the massive amount of CC they get too).
First the ISTs have been removed. ( I know there is the "Henchmen" but not the same thing, or even close)
Then GKs have been reduced to having stats like every other Marine.

Just seems so Sub-par.

DarknessEternal wrote:

sourclams wrote:
And if Vindicaire assassins have unlimited special ammo and can be taken multiple times (can anyone confirm?), then GK won't lack for anti mech at all. 3 near-auto-hitting turbo penetrators a turn should crump AV of all values.

Is the turbo-penetrator getting a boost in some way? While it can penetrate vehicles now, it's pretty unreliable.

Rumor was, 4d6 rending for pen. That's a 14 on an average roll, with no rend needed.

warboss wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:What, no one has jumped in to mention that yellow monkeys who are good with technology is just wee tad racist?

Why next thing you know GW will say that dark-skinned marines are deviant mutants!

i can't really tell if you're joking with that so i'll wait for a clarification.

AH you must have missed the Great 'GW is Racist' Floating Flame War.

Yellow Monkeys is an old well-known insult for Asians, especially Japanese. So orange monkeys who are good with tech but don't understand it (especially in an 80s context) are a bit suspect.

In RT days 'Black Skin' was a chaos mutation, of course the description clearly says they mean ink black skin not African but still... And then GW recently retconed the African skinned Salamanders to ink-black mutants.

And y'know, I would not be shocked if those really were meant as coded race jokes, GW has always had more than a little bit of the frat house (or UK equivlent) mentality.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

alphaomega wrote:I am liking this less and less. The thing that made me want to get involved with the Imperium was the Inquisitation. I loved the fluff etc.
But I didn't see much point with GKs. I like the SoB (the idea of Nuns with Guns in space is awesome).
What I am seeing from these rumours looks so much more like a version of BA (and lack the massive amount of CC they get too).
First the ISTs have been removed. ( I know there is the "Henchmen" but not the same thing, or even close)
Then GKs have been reduced to having stats like every other Marine.

Just seems so Sub-par.

I know, if only someone somewhere made an RPG just focused on the Inquisition!

I'd buy all their books, even if I never played.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slinky wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:None of us are writing our docteral thesis here.

Shouldn't that be doctoral?

I invoke my rights under the Treaty of Usenet.

RPG is all good.
I do (did) enjoy it.

But I just really think it is going to mean more people will play GK. Currently the last 20 games I have had have been 1 against Orks. One against Eldar (the only mech army I have seen in a while) and roughly 50/50 of the rest have been BA or SW.

I am just disappointed. I love my Inquisitor models (and I have a lot of them) And while I have 25 PAGKs and 8 TAGKs I just don't want an army that (by the looks of the rumours) will be Silver/Grey armoured BA with Storm Bolters.

Sigh

I just hope that things might be a bit different when the book comes out.
Maybe then my hard earned £££ might actually get a game without people going "they are illegal!" every time I put an Inquisitor or GK down.

What's all the FURY about the Jokearo about? I thought the rumour was for a Weaponsmith. Doesn't say anything about it being a damn dirty ape/Man of the Forest as far as I see. In fact, to me it sounds more like some kind of Adeptus Mechanicus Technosavant.

Ok, I don't know what a technosavant is, but seeing as the henchmen look like on of those catch-all counts-as units, why the hell not?

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Jaon wrote:Is the misspelling of the word "grey" an internet meme or something...?

As noted it's a US/UK thing.

Moreover by the terms of the Treaty of Usenet which brought an end to the Great Flame Wars of 1994 attacking someone's spelling on the internet is not acceptable behavior. It's like making fun of your friend for saying 'um' in a sentence. None of us are writing our docteral thesis here.

1999, I believe.

I was not attacking spelling, I was asking a question. Umad?

Kid_Kyoto wrote:What, no one has jumped in to mention that yellow monkeys who are good with technology is just wee tad racist?

Hmmm...never crossed my mind until it was mentioned. Even then it sounds like stretching. Think this may be a case of if you look hard enough, you can find racism in anything.

Mad4Minis wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:What, no one has jumped in to mention that yellow monkeys who are good with technology is just wee tad racist?

Hmmm...never crossed my mind until it was mentioned. Even then it sounds like stretching. Think this may be a case of if you look hard enough, you can find racism in anything.

Unfortunately, with GW one tends not to have to look very hard at all.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Mad4Minis wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:What, no one has jumped in to mention that yellow monkeys who are good with technology is just wee tad racist?

Hmmm...never crossed my mind until it was mentioned. Even then it sounds like stretching. Think this may be a case of if you look hard enough, you can find racism in anything.

Unfortunately, with GW one tends not to have to look very hard at all.

Id love some examples.

Jaon wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Mad4Minis wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:What, no one has jumped in to mention that yellow monkeys who are good with technology is just wee tad racist?

Hmmm...never crossed my mind until it was mentioned. Even then it sounds like stretching. Think this may be a case of if you look hard enough, you can find racism in anything.

Unfortunately, with GW one tends not to have to look very hard at all.

Id love some examples.

Because we need more coded racist crap in our lives? No, Joannie, we don't.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Jaon wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Mad4Minis wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:What, no one has jumped in to mention that yellow monkeys who are good with technology is just wee tad racist?

Hmmm...never crossed my mind until it was mentioned. Even then it sounds like stretching. Think this may be a case of if you look hard enough, you can find racism in anything.

Unfortunately, with GW one tends not to have to look very hard at all.

Id love some examples.

Because we need more coded racist crap in our lives? No, Joannie, we don't.

Oh no, you didnt just call m....you did didn't you.

You've already run two GK rumour threads into the ground, Jaon. How about you stop before you make it a third?

Jaon wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Mad4Minis wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:What, no one has jumped in to mention that yellow monkeys who are good with technology is just wee tad racist?

Hmmm...never crossed my mind until it was mentioned. Even then it sounds like stretching. Think this may be a case of if you look hard enough, you can find racism in anything.

Unfortunately, with GW one tends not to have to look very hard at all.

Id love some examples.

Not to refight the Great 'GW is Racist' Floating Flame War but they did make a fantasy world where all South Americans are Frogs (with 'hysterical' names like Tiq Tak Toe), all Egyptians are skeletons, Japanese are rats and Africans are Savage Orks.

But Europeans are human.

So lets just call that poorly thought out shall we?

pretre wrote:The less a man makes declarative statements, the less apt he is to look foolish in retrospect.

Careful! Using the word ‘foolish’ at Dakka is enough of an offence to garner not only an insulting PM from Old Man Fraz, but also angry red text in your post!!!

This post merits ANGRY RED TEXT for illicit independent (if tiresome) thought. ~Comrade Manchu

Leggy wrote:What's all the FURY about the Jokearo about? I thought the rumour was for a Weaponsmith. Doesn't say anything about it being a damn dirty ape/Man of the Forest as far as I see. In fact, to me it sounds more like some kind of Adeptus Mechanicus Technosavant.

it's because the guy who posted that Henchmen details also added that the weaponsmiths are Jokearo.

Kanluwen wrote:Grey Knights can't fight with Inquisitors using Daemonhosts--or at least when Daemonhosts were introduced in Daemonhunters they couldn't.

The fluff is arbitrary. It will change to suit the needs of the Codex/model lines. How many times must this be explained to you?

Kanluwen wrote:And I refuse to believe any of these rumours until I see the book on preorder and from the black box at my FLGS.

Too many of the rumormongers out there latch onto these outlandish rumors rather than shoot them down, simply because they don't want to look like they don't know it.

Then I hope you’re a good cook, ‘cause I’ll be expecting one hell of an omelette on release day once you’ve finished scraping all the egg off your face.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Not to refight the Great 'GW is Racist' Floating Flame War but they did make a fantasy world where all South Americans are Frogs (with 'hysterical' names like Tiq Tak Toe), all Egyptians are skeletons, Japanese are rats and Africans are Savage Orks.

But Europeans are human.

So lets just call that poorly thought out shall we?

Punny names do indeed equal racism, yes.

Guys...

I'm not a Mod, but can we please get back on topic here???

We are not here to talk about racism, we are here to talk about our hobby.

So please... Quit it.

Thank You.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Grey Knights can't fight with Inquisitors using Daemonhosts--or at least when Daemonhosts were introduced in Daemonhunters they couldn't.

The fluff is arbitrary. It will change to suit the needs of the Codex/model lines. How many times must this be explained to you?

Until it actually happens for real
Most of the fluff changes are never as radical as you make them out to be. I've yet to see anything as radically oxymoronic as Grey Knights fighting alongside radical Inquisitors.
And unless it's Pete Haines, I don't see it happening.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:And I refuse to believe any of these rumours until I see the book on preorder and from the black box at my FLGS.

Too many of the rumormongers out there latch onto these outlandish rumors rather than shoot them down, simply because they don't want to look like they don't know it.

Then I hope you’re a good cook, ‘cause I’ll be expecting one hell of an omelette on release day once you’ve finished scraping all the egg off your face.

And I'll be expecting one hell of an apology if most of this doesn't come to pass.