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Post by: yakface
Howdy everyone. With Gwar not being around anymore to make his personal FAQs, I need to go back to collecting questions for the INAT the old fashioned way...by getting them from everyone myself! So this thread is a place to post your questions about unclear rules in the new Grey Knights codex. It is not a place to argue over the rules. If you want to argue about the rules, feel free to start a separate thread to discuss the particular issue. Any arguments that happen in this thread will be deleted, so you've been warned! A few ground rules about posting a question: 1) Please only submit questions from the actual codex. If all you have is the leaked version of the codex DO NOT post the question until you can confirm the rules wording in the final codex as in some cases the wording did change from the leaked to the final version. 2) Please include a page number and any other reference to where the unclear rules in the codex are found. 3) If you feel a question that someone posted is CLEARLY answered by the rules, then you can post ONE (and only one) reply explaining why you think the rules clearly answer that question. The original poster of the question can post ONE (and only one) response to your reply if they so choose...however no matter what, no further discussion about that particular rule will be allowed in this thread (any further posts on the matter will be deleted). Again, if you want to discuss the issue further, feel free to start a separate thread dedicated to the subject. 4) If you're looking for 'credit' for your rules question in the INAT, I just want to let you know up front that besides a general thanks to the community for helping submit questions, you won't be getting any specific credit for your question submission. I know 99% of people don't even understand why this point is being brought up, but for the 1% who are looking to be 'credited' for something like this I just wanted to let you know up front that you shouldn't post your question in this thread if you're looking for said credit. And with that, let the questions commence! Thanks guys and gals.
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Post by: Ckilleen
When a dreadknight takes a Personal teleporter does it become a jump infantry and lose its MC status. P.28 and P.94 Automatically Appended Next Post: Mindstrike Missiles say they need only hit a Psyker to cause a perils of the warp attack. Does the Psyker need to be allocated a wound in a squad to take the perils of the warp attack of does the blast template need only hit (aka touch the psyker) the psyker to cause the perils of the warp effect of the psyker. this also goes for the Psyk-out bomb P. 57 and P.58
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Post by: DarknessEternal
How many attacks does a Grey Knight Strike Team marine have when wielding Nemesis Falchions.
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Post by: BuFFo
Can a Crucible of Malediction from the Dark Eldar Arcane Wargear affect Grey Knight Vehicles? If the answer is yes, what is the out come? Will the vehicle get removed from the game without a LD test due to not having a LD, or can the Vehicle use it's LD of 10 for very specific psychic purposes for the Malediction as well? Also, if the Vehicle is removed from play, what happens to the unit inside?
Can a Dreadknight use it's Personal Teleporter to move 30" during the Scouting "phase" of the deployment "phase"?
I have my own opinions on these subjects, but I am keeping them out for now. I am just posting the general questions I see around the net.
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Post by: th3eviltwin
With Coteaz do henchmen start takeing up troop slots on the FOS?
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Post by: puma713
On a dreadknight, are Nemesis Doomfists Str. 10, even though they reference walkers and the DK is not a walker?
Do 5 or more Jokaero Weaponsmiths make it impossible to get a bonus? Or are the secondary rolls independent of the primary roll?
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Post by: quietus
1) Is Mordrak an independent character? pg40. pg 64
2) When Mordrak brings his body guard they become a unit, can he then be joined by an IC? pg.40 pg.64
3) Can the Lib stealth an vehicle, does he need LOS can this be done even if he has, during his turn reached his mastery level?
pg. 24-25 pg.67
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Post by: OverwatchCNC
Can a unit with Personal Teleport homers and the Scout USR use their Shunt move as their Scout Move? Does the "shunt" qualify as a "normal" move as per the Scout USR? Does a "once per game" power actually get used prior to the "start the game" portion of the missions check list?
On a side note, what happened to GWAR?
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Post by: Grey Templar
1) How many attacks does a pair of Nemisis Fachions grant the wielder in CC.
2) do the Henchmen Warbands taken by Coteaz count toward the minimum number of Troops choices.
3) if an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor takes 2 Deamonblades(by swapping both his Bolt pistol and Chainsword for them) does he get 2 rolls to see what bonus he gets.
4) Grey Knights have the Preferred Enemy: Deamon special rule. What is the Definition of Deamon? is it just models with the Deamon Special rule like every model in Codex: Deamons and the Avatar of Khaine? is it just models from Codex: Deamons? or does it also include some units from Codex: CSM like Deamon Princes, Summoned Deamons, Posessed and Posessed vehicles?
5) If an Independent Character with Rad Grenades is joined to a squad that doesn't have Rad Grenades, do the squad members get to roll against the modified Toughness or does just the IC benifit?
i'll post page numbers later when i can look at the codex again. it's late
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Post by: yakface
DarknessEternal wrote:How many attacks does a Grey Knight Strike Team marine have when wielding Nemesis Falchions.
th3eviltwin wrote:With Coteaz do henchmen start takeing up troop slots on the FOS?
Just a reminder guys: Please include a page number that references where the grey area in the codex is. Thanks otherwise for the questions!
BuFFo wrote:
I have my own opinions on these subjects, but I am keeping them out for now. I am just posting the general questions I see around the net.
Feel free to include a succinct summary of your opinions on the question, especially if you have rules to reference as support.
OverwatchCNC wrote:On a side note, what happened to GWAR?
He's no longer able to post here. Every now and then people break enough (or the right) rules to warrant a permanent suspension from the site. It isn't pleasant, but it happens.
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Post by: Norade
Do Turbo-penetrator rounds get 4d6 versus Monoliths?
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Post by: puma713
Norade wrote:Do Turbo-penetrator rounds get 4d6 versus Monoliths?
And Wave Serpents?
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Post by: Anavrin
Since a unit of GKs count as a single psyker (Brotherhood of Psykers, p21) will a mindstrike missile cause a single perils to be suffered when hitting a squad of GKs as per BoP, or one for each model hit?
Also - Does a model count as 'hit' by a mindstrike missile simply for being under the template, or must it actually be wounded?
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Post by: DevianID
How do servoskulls work?
1, do multiple servoskulls each reduce scatter by 1d6? Or is it -1d6 for one or more servoskulls.
2, the servoskulls pop when the enemy 'moves' within 6 inches of them. What happens when an enemy deploys within 6 inches of a servoskull. Is it dead, or does the player need a movement specifically to kill a servoskull, not a deployment.
3, If a servoskull is within 12 of a vendetta, would this prevent a Vendetta from making any scout move at all, as it would then be approaching within 12 inches?
PS, does hammerhand stack?
PPS, the Vindicare has a sniper rifle which of course is rending. Does the 4d6 penetrator have rending on any d6 roll of 6, like the previous FAQ on Vindicares? Also, what counts as a wargear save for the shieldbreaker, seeing as we have all manner of invulnerable saves around, many as unique character special rules with item like descriptions, but not listed in the wargear section.
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Post by: Lukus83
If you take Coteaz and he gets to use his "I've been expecting you" rule against reserves when do you shoot? As the units movement is finished or as soon as they arrive from a table edge? What if the unit they are shooting at ends its move in such a way that they are out of range even though they entered within the rules area of effect?
Page 45.
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Post by: nosferatu1001
Ckilleen - the rule for Mindstrike says "hit", so no wound needs to be caused. This also means you cannot allocate it away. No rules issue there, although a FAQ explaining that yes, they really DO mean "hit" and not "wound" could be useful.
GT - for your 3) Given page 42 states you only ever "use" one weapon, you couldnt ever have 2 rols as this would require you "using" both weapons - which isnt allowed. This is clear (to my mind) rules, but again something cnofirming this may be in order.
for you 5) - it states the models toughness is reduced, and is not contingent on anyone attacking that model (with no attacks allocated it would still be T(base - 1), even if this didnt make any difference to it...) so I would take that to mean it is everyone gaining the benefit - which is a departure from normal, so again a FAQ explicitly confirming it could be of use.
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Post by: Aramoro
1) Taking Coteaz (pg86) do Henchmen count towards your 2 minimum Troop selections (pg 90)
Straight forward to answer but good to see it written down.
Not strictly Grey Knight Specific
2) Can a Librarian with a Psychic Hood use it against a model embark on a transport. (pg 24)
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Post by: Pyriel-
Shrouding: P25.
Can it stack.
A: If one librarian casts shrouding 3 times on the same unit in the same player phase will that unit benefit from a 2+ cover save?
B: If two different librarians each cast shrouding on the same unit will the cover save stack?
C: Can a librarian cast shrouding while inside a vehicle and if so will range count as from the vehicles hull?
D: Can a librarian use his psychic hood while inside a vehicle?
Summoning: P25.
When, more specifically, does it occur compared to deep strike?
E: Can a librarian deep strike and then proceed to summon a friendly unit?
Rule book says deep strike happens at the start of movement phase and you must DS first and then after the DS is placed and scattered you are allowed to start normal movement moves.
Summoning (p.25) says you use it at the beginning of your movement phase.
Warp rift: p25.
F: If a librarian casts warp rift three (3) consecutive times on the same enemy unit how are "wounds" counted.
Do the opponent remove casualties after each warp rift template has been cast and thus lower the number of potential models the next flame template can cover or do you simply multiply the models covered by the template three times and then roll for wounds?
Flame template rules state that you multiply all templates from the same shooting unit but this is a psychic power so it´s not clear the same rules apply.
Vortex of doom: p25.
G: The same question as for warp rift above.
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Post by: nosferatu1001
Pyriel - for Summoning the BRB FAQ already answers that I believe - it states you cannot use "start of movement phase / turn" abilities after a unit arrives from reserves
F: Warp Rift is a PSA, yes? Meaning the libby can only cast it once per his shooting phase, as the libby isnt an MC / explictily allowed to fire more than one weapon.
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Post by: penek
Since when Psykers can cast same power more then once per turn without line that specifically say that he can do this?
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Post by: nosferatu1001
penek wrote:Since when Psykers can cast same power more then once per turn without line that specifically say that he can do this?
Psychic Mastery Levels, GK special rules, page 21
You can have a libby casting 3 powers a turn, but only 1 PSA.
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Post by: svendrex
1) Jokero and their Customization rolls (p. 50) a) Does the bonus for having multiple Jokero Apply on every roll? b) what Happens when you have 6+ Jokero and you always roll for more Rolls? 2) Unit Type Infantry (Character) (p. 64) Abilities that affect characters but not Independent Characters (such as the Death Leaper's It's After me) Do they affect these models? 3) Ulumeathi Plasma Syphon (p. 62) What weapons count as "plasma" weapons? 4) Nemesis Doom Fist (p. 54) Do DCCW double strength for MC's or only for walkers? 5) Culexus Assassins (p. 53) How many Psykers does a squad of Grey Knights count as for the purpose of the Animus Speculum? 6) Callidus Assassins (p. 53) How does the Neural Shredder interact with Rules or wargear that affect leadership (Mob rule ect.)? 7) Servitor Henchmen (p. 49) Are they still affected by Mind Lock if a Techmarine is in their squad? (simple answer but I still think people may ask the question a lot). 8) Justicar Thawn (p. 43) a) He does not give out kill points if he is alive at the end of the game, but how many does he give if he is dead? one per "death" or just one? b) As he is an upgrade Character, if he is alive but his squad is dead, do you get a kill point for the squad? 9) Librarian Powers (p. 25) a) Dark Excommunication. What counts as a "demonic gift" in the Chaos Deamon and Chaos Space Marine books? b) Can you take the Save granted by the gift "Blessing of the Blood God" (CD p. 74) against his power? 10) Corteaz (p. 45) I've been expecting you A unit of bikes enters from reserves 1" away from Corteaz. They proceed to turbo boost 23" away from Corteaz. How many shots do rapid fire weapons get? what about weapons with less than a 23" range. Where are the enemy models placed when blast weapons hit them? Can Heavy weapons fire if they moved last turn? What if the unit starts their move within line of sight of Corteaz, but ends their move out of his line of sight?
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Post by: Aramoro
1) Jokero and their Customization rolls (p. 50)
a) Does the bonus for having multiple Jokero Apply on every roll?
b) what Happens when you have 6+ Jokero and you always roll for more Rolls?
I think that is clearly answered in the section as it stipulates that you ignore duplicate results, including duplicate 6's so you won't roll forever.
9) Librarian Powers (p. 25)
a) Dark Excommunication. What counts as a "demonic gift" in the Chaos Deamon and Chaos Space Marine books?
b) Can you take the Save granted by the gift "Blessing of the Blood God" (CD p. 74) against his power?
All the Chaos Daemon Daemonic Gifts are clearly labelled, such as Unholy Might, Hell Blades etc etc
Blessing of the Blood God only prevent wounds, so if Dark Excommunication removes the power it will do nothing for you.
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Post by: svendrex
Aramoro wrote:1) Jokero and their Customization rolls (p. 50)
a) Does the bonus for having multiple Jokero Apply on every roll?
b) what Happens when you have 6+ Jokero and you always roll for more Rolls?
I think that is clearly answered in the section as it stipulates that you ignore duplicate results, including duplicate 6's so you won't roll forever.
The way I read this was that you ignore double results for each pair you roll and only apply each upgrade once.
Roll 1: you get a 6
roll 2: Two Dice, you get a 3 and a 6, you get the armor and another 2 rolls
roll 3: two dice, you get a 3 and a 4, you gain rending and ignore the second extra armor result.
I guess the question is whether "the Works" counts as an upgrade or not, but I am not sure about this any more. It seems like every time I look at the Jokero rules, they get worse.
9) Librarian Powers (p. 25)
a) Dark Excommunication. What counts as a "demonic gift" in the Chaos Deamon and Chaos Space Marine books?
b) Can you take the Save granted by the gift "Blessing of the Blood God" (CD p. 74) against his power?
All the Chaos Daemon Daemonic Gifts are clearly labelled, such as Unholy Might, Hell Blades etc etc
Blessing of the Blood God only prevent wounds, so if Dark Excommunication removes the power it will do nothing for you.
I guess, as it does label the save as an INV save. Don't the Sisters of Battle and the Black Templar get saves against Psy Powers? or are they worded differently?
--------------------------------------------
New Question
10) Librarian Powers (p. 25)
The Summoning.
Can you "summon" a unit that is in a Transport? If you do can a fast vehicle them move flat out (or does the squad count as disembarking preventing a flat out move)?
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Post by: VikingScott
Edit. I should read threads instead of assuming stuff.
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Post by: Aramoro
svendrex wrote:
The way I read this was that you ignore double results for each pair you roll and only apply each upgrade once.
Roll 1: you get a 6
roll 2: Two Dice, you get a 3 and a 6, you get the armor and another 2 rolls
roll 3: two dice, you get a 3 and a 4, you gain rending and ignore the second extra armor result.
I guess the question is whether "the Works" counts as an upgrade or not, but I am not sure about this any more. It seems like every time I look at the Jokero rules, they get worse.
The wording of The Works is
Roll twice more on the table and apply both results. Each Upgrade can only be applied once - Ignore duplicate results (including duplicate rolls of 6)
So you roll a 6, you roll 2 more 6's and you get nothing.
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Post by: Magister187
VikingScott wrote:Why is Gwar not arround anymore?
Literally 15 posts above yours this was answered.
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Post by: ColdSadHungry
Darkness Eternal asked a similar question but I want to ask more specifically, how many extra attacks does a model have when wielding Nemesis Force Falchions?
Pg 54 of the actual codex states 'The wielder of a pair of Nemesis Falchions has +1 attack'
Pg 42 of the small (main) rulebook, under the 'Two Of The Same Special Weapon' states, 'These models gain one additional attack.'
So, does the codex simply reaffirm the rulebook or do we take the rulebook's description of the effect and add the codex description to it?
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Post by: nosferatu1001
It does not reaffirm the rulebook. Twin LC dont "remind" you of the rule, for a start.
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Post by: Hellstorm
Ckilleen wrote:When a dreadknight takes a Personal teleporter does it become a jump infantry and lose its MC status. P.28 and P.94
If it doesn't lose its monstrous creature status, does that mean that Inceptor units are also infantry as well as jump infantry? same page
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Post by: kryhavok
Pyriel- wrote:Shrouding: P25.
Can it stack.
A: If one librarian casts shrouding 3 times on the same unit in the same player phase will that unit benefit from a 2+ cover save?
B: If two different librarians each cast shrouding on the same unit will the cover save stack?
C: Can a librarian cast shrouding while inside a vehicle and if so will range count as from the vehicles hull?
D: Can a librarian use his psychic hood while inside a vehicle?
A. Since the Shrouding doesn't give +1 to cover saves, it gives the Stealth Special Rule, this wouldn't stack.
B. Again they are just gaining the Stealth USR
C. According to Rulebook FAQ on Pg3, since the Since the Shrouding is Not a Psychic shooting attack, and has a range or area of affect, Yes it can be cast inside a transport, and the area of effect is measured from the transport's hull.
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Post by: Evil Lamp 6
Sorry I forget the page number, but how does the GK "Psychic Pilot" rule interact with other Psyker affecting war gear/rules not listed under the entry? How do war gear or rules that deal with models/units that have psychic powers but aren't necessarily labeled as Psykers affect GK vehicles with "Psychic Pilot"?
Same questions about GK squads with the "Brotherhood of Psykers" rule. particularly dealing with much of the anti-Psyker WH war gear and powers. For Execruciators, for example, does one have to kill the whole squad to get the victory points per Psyker, or just the Justicar/Keeper of the Flame, or does one get the points for each model from that squad?
What GK Psychic powers can be said to affect either a Sisters of Battle Squad with "Shield of Faith" or a WH Inquisitor with The Penitent included for the purposes of negating said powers?
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Post by: Pyriel-
I have an interessting question about wargear. Page number is not needed for this one.
It´s about the psilencer and my question is why did the dev team include a weapon that nobody will ever take and I mean ever!
Think I have seen roughly 60 GK army builds online now that people want to make or are building and not once have I seen even one single psilencer.
It makes for very boring and repetitive army builds when all that is ever taken is psycannon spam with the occasional incinerator sprinkled into the build.
So why did they give a weapon with the very best looks in the entire game such crappy rules?
Why does it take up sprue space when something other more needed like another halbeard for example could be put there?
There is not one single instance where the psilencer is actually better then the psycannon that you pay peanut points for over the psilencer.
Psilencer causes:
2.65 wounds vs T3 saved by all armour saves.
2 wounds vs T4 saved by all armour saves.
1.3 wounds vs T5 saved by all armour saves.
0.65 wounds vs T6 saved by all armour saves.
Psycannon causes:
2.2 wounds vs T3
2.2 wounds vs T4
2.2 wounds vs T5
1.75 wounds vs T6
1.3 wounds vs T7
With the fact that armour saves do apply against psilencers (and most T3 armies have saves of 4+ to 6+) the psilencer already lower wounds go down significantly vs the psycannon that cuts through 4+ saves.
Psycannon can move and shoot, psilencer can not.
Psycannon can down vehicles, psicannon can not.
Psycannon can rend through 3+ and 2+ armours, psilecer can not.
Psycannon wounds deamons better then psilencer, the only instance where the psilencer is slightly (0.45 wounds) better then the psycannon is against T3 deamons since the AP4 of the psycannon doesnt confer an advantage there. Also in apocalypse games vs super deamons with toughness values of T8-9-10 etc but this is outside the scope.
So my question stands and I would be very interested to hear what weasling will take place to get out of this question when/if it is asked.
Why on earth include such a nice looking weapon when it is so worthless nobody will ever take it?
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Post by: Maureth
I don't own a Grey Knight codex so can't give page numbers, but with Psykout grenades, or whatever one you roll a D6 for and apply the result, if the initiative 1 result is rolled against Eldar Howling Banshees in the first round of combat, are they initiative 1 as the grenades say or 10 as per the Banshee Mask?
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Post by: Grey Templar
Maureth wrote:I don't own a Grey Knight codex so can't give page numbers, but with Psykout grenades, or whatever one you roll a D6 for and apply the result, if the initiative 1 result is rolled against Eldar Howling Banshees in the first round of combat, are they initiative 1 as the grenades say or 10 as per the Banshee Mask?
they are lowered to I1, but then the Banshee masks raise it to I10
at least, thats the ruling with other wargear that lowers inititive and how it works with Banshees.
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Post by: Rephistorch
quietus wrote:1) Is Mordrak an independent character? pg40. pg 64
2) When Mordrak brings his body guard they become a unit, can he then be joined by an IC? pg.40 pg.64
3) Can the Lib stealth an vehicle, does he need LOS can this be done even if he has, during his turn reached his mastery level?
pg. 24-25 pg.67
1) Mordrak is not listed as an independent character on either of those pages, so he is not one.
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Post by: Kommissar Kel
Rephistorch wrote: 1) Mordrak is not listed as an independent character on either of those pages, so he is not one. Mordak is not an IC. But, He doesn't need to be; as he has more than 1 model available to his unit(whether he brings the ghost knights or not) he is not always a unit of 1 model, therefore other ICs can attach to him(ghost knights apear every time he is wounded, not just when the unit is bought).
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Post by: th3eviltwin
about inquisitor coteaz's lord of formosa rule (pg 88) and inquisitorial henchmen warband (pg90)
do the henchmen start using slots on the foc to a max of 6?
do you need to take a inquisitor for each warband?
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Post by: TalosNB
svendrex wrote:
9) Librarian Powers (p. 25)
a) Dark Excommunication. What counts as a "demonic gift" in the Chaos Deamon and Chaos Space Marine books?
b) Can you take the Save granted by the gift "Blessing of the Blood God" (CD p. 74) against his power?
Using this quote as I don't personally know the page number.
The chaos daemons codex refers to all wargear that is purchased as daemonic gifts which includes steeds and chariots. If this power cancels all Daemonic gifts does this include steeds and chariots? and if so do the herlads stats get changed immediately?
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Post by: hyperviper6
A death cult assassin has two power weapons. Is the two weapon bonus included in their profile or do they get a 3rd attack for two weapons?
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Post by: Fafnir
hyperviper6 wrote:A death cult assassin has two power weapons. Is the two weapon bonus included in their profile or do they get a 3rd attack for two weapons?
Unless hyphenated (ie, A1(2)), then a model's Attacks characteristic always lists their basic characteristic before any other modifiers are applied.
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Post by: schadenfreude
Henchmen page 90 Elites choice, but does not use a force org slot. No more than 1 per inquisitor.
Corteaz (p. 45) Henchmen may be taken as a troops choice. Removes the 1 per inquisitor restriction.
When Corteaz makes henchmen troop choice do they take a troops force org slot, or do they remain a force or free selection?
There are 2 arguments I have seen.
Henchmen page 90 overrides Corteaz page 45 because page 45 says nothing about removing the rule that henchmen are force org free, and thus henchmen take no force org slot.
Corteaz page 45 overides page 90 because when Corteaz converts henchmen into troops it says nothing about them being force org free.
This is probably the most important ruling because it will deem entire lists legal or illegal in a tournament, most notably 17 razorback henchmen squads as troops, the 99 multi melta servitor army, and the MSU 15 point triple bolt gun scoring unit henchmen army.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
GK grand master page 22 Unyielding anvil. D3 units can claim objectives as if they were troops. Can the following units claim objectives as troops?
Dreadknights: MC seems like a no brainer to me as a Yes, just like TMC can.
Dreadnoughts, land raiders, or anything else with an AV: Some people say yes, I say no. It has an AV, the grand master doesn't specifically say vehicles can be scoring units.
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Post by: nosferatu1001
Scoring "as if" means they are Scoring. You also cant give it to Landraiders. Just walkers
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Post by: Lukus83
If I have more than 1 purifier squads in an assault and they both use their cleansing flame psychic power are they resolved simultaneously or 1 at a time?
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Post by: th3eviltwin
schadenfreude wrote:Henchmen page 90 Elites choice, but does not use a force org slot. No more than 1 per inquisitor.
Corteaz (p. 45) Henchmen may be taken as a troops choice. Removes the 1 per inquisitor restriction.
When Corteaz makes henchmen troop choice do they take a troops force org slot, or do they remain a force or free selection?
There are 2 arguments I have seen.
Henchmen page 90 overrides Corteaz page 45 because page 45 says nothing about removing the rule that henchmen are force org free, and thus henchmen take no force org slot.
Corteaz page 45 overides page 90 because when Corteaz converts henchmen into troops it says nothing about them being force org free.
This is probably the most important ruling because it will deem entire lists legal or illegal in a tournament, most notably 17 razorback henchmen squads as troops, the 99 multi melta servitor army, and the MSU 15 point triple bolt gun scoring unit henchmen army.
It doesn't say any place about removing the 1 per inquisitor restriction just they can be taken as troops and then removes the limit on inquisitors, so don't still need an inquisitor per henchmen warband ether way ?
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Post by: lucasbuffalo
schadenfreude wrote:
GK grand master page 22 Unyielding anvil. D3 units can claim objectives as if they were troops. Can the following units claim objectives as troops?
Dreadknights: MC seems like a no brainer to me as a Yes, just like TMC can.
Dreadnoughts, land raiders, or anything else with an AV: Some people say yes, I say no. It has an AV, the grand master doesn't specifically say vehicles can be scoring units.
This is made clear on the same page as it lists what units can be used with grand strategy:
"Roll a D3 and choose that many infantry, jump infantry, monstrous creatures, or walkers in your army (but not models with the independant character special rule, Inquisitorial Henchman warbands, or Grand Master Mordrak's unit of Ghost Knights)"
Should clear that up.
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Post by: schadenfreude
th3eviltwin wrote:schadenfreude wrote:Henchmen page 90 Elites choice, but does not use a force org slot. No more than 1 per inquisitor.
Corteaz (p. 45) Henchmen may be taken as a troops choice. Removes the 1 per inquisitor restriction.
When Corteaz makes henchmen troop choice do they take a troops force org slot, or do they remain a force or free selection?
There are 2 arguments I have seen.
Henchmen page 90 overrides Corteaz page 45 because page 45 says nothing about removing the rule that henchmen are force org free, and thus henchmen take no force org slot.
Corteaz page 45 overides page 90 because when Corteaz converts henchmen into troops it says nothing about them being force org free.
This is probably the most important ruling because it will deem entire lists legal or illegal in a tournament, most notably 17 razorback henchmen squads as troops, the 99 multi melta servitor army, and the MSU 15 point triple bolt gun scoring unit henchmen army.
It doesn't say any place about removing the 1 per inquisitor restriction just they can be taken as troops and then removes the limit on inquisitors, so don't still need an inquisitor per henchmen warband ether way ?
Exact wording is
and are not limited by the number of inquisitors in your army.
Thus the henchmen are not limited to 1 per inquisitor in your army. The key words are by the number of inquisitors. So no it's not unlimited HQ choices, and we don't get to go Oprah Winfrey with rad grenades. You get a rad grenade, you get a rad grenade, everybody gets a rad grenade! Automatically Appended Next Post: lucasbuffalo wrote:schadenfreude wrote:
GK grand master page 22 Unyielding anvil. D3 units can claim objectives as if they were troops. Can the following units claim objectives as troops?
Dreadknights: MC seems like a no brainer to me as a Yes, just like TMC can.
Dreadnoughts, land raiders, or anything else with an AV: Some people say yes, I say no. It has an AV, the grand master doesn't specifically say vehicles can be scoring units.
This is made clear on the same page as it lists what units can be used with grand strategy:
"Roll a D3 and choose that many infantry, jump infantry, monstrous creatures, or walkers in your army (but not models with the independant character special rule, Inquisitorial Henchman warbands, or Grand Master Mordrak's unit of Ghost Knights)"
Should clear that up.
There are 4 abilities the grandmaster can give units. The exact wording says any of the 4 abilities can be given to a walker.
RAI= Walkers can get spear of light, shield of blades, and hammer of righteousness.
RAW=Walkers can get spear of light, shield of blades, and hammer of righteousness, and anvil which makes them a scoring unit, however it says nothing about removing the rule from the main rulebook that specifically states walkers can not score. RAW=The walker is a scoring unit per GK codex, but it can not score because it is a walker (Main rulebook). If it doesn't specifically say in the army rulebook you can ignore the specific rule in the main rulebook that walkers with an AV can not score then you can't ignore the rule, implying that the rule can be ignored my making a unit a scoring unit is not good enough.
Orks can take walkers as a troops choice. The ork book specifically says they are troops and thus scoring units. The main book says they can not score because they are a walker. RAW=Being a troops choice makes them a scoring unit per the Ork codex, but they can not score because it is a walker (main rulebook). If it doesn't specifically say in the army rulebook you can ignore the specific rule in the main rulebook that walkers with an AV can not score then you can't ignore the rule, implying that the rule can be ignored my making a unit a scoring unit is not good enough.
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Post by: nosferatu1001
Schaden - vehicles cannot score. However GK GM says they can. RAW they score.
Your analogy with the Deffdred is incorrect, as all it odes is make them Troops, it does NOT specifically state they "score"
The GKGM rule is more specific than the rulebook; rulebook states vehicles cannot score, GKGM GS states they can. GS wins.
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Post by: Aramoro
It's the Same as Dark Angel Land Speeders, they score because it specifically says they do. GK GM make them scoring.
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Post by: Hellstorm
i am not sure if this has been posted yet but, upon the release of Codex: Grey Knights will Codex: Daemonhunters be legal?
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Post by: Fafnir
No, it won't.
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Post by: Redemption
Mordrak and Ghost Knights:
On page 40 it says:
Ghost Knights also always have the Stealth special rule due to their spectral nature.
But page 82 it doesn't list Stealth under their Special Rules.
Which is leading? Also, if the Ghost Knights did gain Stealth, would wounds allocated to Mordrak also benefit from the improved cover save?
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Post by: nosferatu1001
They dont need to have Stealth in their special rules, as they have a special rule which grants it
See the BRB FAQ which already covers this - anyone with the Stealth USR in a unit means the whole unit benefits from it.
Codex  H will be as "legal" as any other codex. In other words:
Friendly games: up to you and your opponent(s)
Tournaments: up to the TO
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Post by: Snickerdoodle
rad grenades subtract 1 from the toughness of the modelsassualted. If you were to assault marines with 4 different units with rad grenades, would they just die on the spot?
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Post by: Aramoro
Do Servo Skulls (pg 62) make Orbital Strike Relays (pg58) Scatter less? Orbital Strike Relays always scatter a full 2D6 inches, Servo Skulls make you roll one less dice for scatter.
Must Brother Captain Stern (pg41) be locked in combat to use his Zone of Banishment? You use it during your Assault Phase and it happens instead of your attacks. But as you can lose things you're never had (Furioso and Red Thirst) can he do it whenever, but if he is in Assault then he loses his attacks.
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Post by: Redemption
Oh, and Re: Orbital Strike Relays: (pg 58)
Are these really not Barrage weapons? They state it multiple times in the fluff, and it's a strike coming from an orbitting spacecraft, and it even has a weapon profile called Barrage Bomb.So it would all make sense that it's a Barrage weapon...
...but no where in the rules does it actually state it is fired a Barrage weapon. Does this also mean you require Line of Sight and intervening terrain confers cover saves to the target and such?
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Post by: sourclams
Psychotroke '4' result versus Stubborn, which one has precedence?
Is the 'reduces leadership to 2' descriptor a modifier, and thus trumped by Stubborn, or is it setting the leadership to a new value, in which case Stubborn is ignored?
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Post by: Culler
When models equipped with personal teleporters move into difficult terrain using the teleport shunt, do they have to make dangerous terrain checks?
Page 28
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Post by: ph34r
nosferatu1001 wrote:Schaden - vehicles cannot score. However GK GM says they can. RAW they score.
Your analogy with the Deffdred is incorrect, as all it odes is make them Troops, it does NOT specifically state they "score"
The GKGM rule is more specific than the rulebook; rulebook states vehicles cannot score, GKGM GS states they can. GS wins.
I suggest you actually read the GK codex, it would help your arguments quite a bit.
The GK codex does not make them scoring, but rather scoring "as if they were troops". Troops vehicles cannot score. Vehicles that score as if they were troops cannot score.
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Post by: penek
i think its pretty clear that GKGM allow GK dreads to "claim objectives" as there's none Troops selection walkers in codex, and only one Walker that exist are dreads. And its doesn't matter what written in BGB about that case.
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Post by: Slinky
ph34r wrote:nosferatu1001 wrote:Schaden - vehicles cannot score. However GK GM says they can. RAW they score.
Your analogy with the Deffdred is incorrect, as all it odes is make them Troops, it does NOT specifically state they "score"
The GKGM rule is more specific than the rulebook; rulebook states vehicles cannot score, GKGM GS states they can. GS wins.
I suggest you actually read the GK codex, it would help your arguments quite a bit.
The GK codex does not make them scoring, but rather scoring "as if they were troops". Troops vehicles cannot score. Vehicles that score as if they were troops cannot score.
I concur.
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Post by: nosferatu1001
ph34r - I have read the codex. Oddly enough
they score "as if they were Troops" - so 1) they score and 2) act as troops to do so.
In the same way a RAS LS scores, because the codex says so, this rule is more specific than the BRB
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Post by: Hellstorm
the astral aim psychic power. page 54 (i think)
It says that you may not target someone in a vehicle, but if you are in a vehicle can you use this power to shoot without needing fire points? The way I see it is that the models still count as being on the battlefield just they can't see due to the vehicle walls blocking line of sight. Thus with this power you should be able to fire because it disregards that part of the firing restrictions.
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Post by: Fafnir
nosferatu1001 wrote:ph34r - I have read the codex. Oddly enough
they score "as if they were Troops" - so 1) they score and 2) act as troops to do so.
In the same way a RAS LS scores, because the codex says so, this rule is more specific than the BRB
They score as if they were troops, and vehicles, even if they are troops, do not score. It's for the same reason that Deff Dreads taken as troops cannot score.
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Post by: nosferatu1001
No it isnt. Deff dreads are simply moved to Troops, with no other stipulation.
Here you are told you are scoring - in the same way as a RAS LS is scoring.
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Post by: Thanatos_elNyx
I dunno why people are answering questions here.
Surely the purpose of the thread is to simply collect questions.
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Post by: nosferatu1001
To collect questions that need answering. If there is an answer in the rules, then at best you need a FAQ
IF the query requires a rules change, then it needs an errrata. So if they make Falchions +1A only, that better be in an errata as a rules change!
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Post by: sourclams
What order does Cleansing Flame being cast multiple times in an assault get resolved?
i.e. In succession
CF1, 30 rolls, 15 wounds, 10 models die
CF2, 20 rolls, 10 wounds, 7 models die
or
Simultaneous
CF1 & 2, 60 rolls, 30 wounds, 20 models die
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Post by: Redemption
Hellstorm wrote:the astral aim psychic power. page 54 (i think)
It says that you may not target someone in a vehicle, but if you are in a vehicle can you use this power to shoot without needing fire points? The way I see it is that the models still count as being on the battlefield just they can't see due to the vehicle walls blocking line of sight. Thus with this power you should be able to fire because it disregards that part of the firing restrictions.
Rule part: You still require fire points. Astral Aim only removes the requirement for line of sight, not the requirement for a fire point ( pg 66), which is a completely different rule than the Line of Sight rule. It's like firing a Barrage weapon from a vehicle.
Fluff part: They don't magicially shoot through things, they bend the projectile's path around things. Basically they're like the movie Wanted.
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Post by: ph34r
nosferatu1001 wrote:No it isnt. Deff dreads are simply moved to Troops, with no other stipulation.
Here you are told you are scoring - in the same way as a RAS LS is scoring.
Scoring as if they were troops.
A vehicle that scores as if it was a troop unit can score with the restriction that it cannot score if it is a vehicle.
It's very cut and dry. There is no rule-supported argument against it.
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Post by: Galador
Pg 21: Does the Brotherhood of Psykers rule, specifically the part about attacks specifically targeting psykers being against the Justicar/ KotF or a random model if they are dead, work against wargear or special rules that cause a characteristic test, i.e. Dark Eldar's Crucible of Malediction? Also, if it does not work out as an attack, does it effect the entire unit, seeing as they are counted as a single psyker?
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Post by: whitetrash982
anyone else notice, you have chimera's as trasports which are armed with a multi laser, yet theres no weapon description anywhere in the book for a multi laser
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Post by: Grey Templar
whitetrash982 wrote:anyone else notice, you have chimera's as trasports which are armed with a multi laser, yet theres no weapon description anywhere in the book for a multi laser
uuuuum,
try the reference sheet on the back cover?
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Post by: whitetrash982
not on the refrence sheet, war gear section, or with the transport section. no description of the characteristics in the codex at all. i feel as if this codex was very rushed. alot of mistakes and not enough clarification
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Post by: Dok
Pg. 51 in the henchmen section
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Post by: Kapitan Montag
Still on the subject of Chimera's, and again hinting that their addition to the codex was a last minute job,- can they transport a model in terminator armour?
The description of terminator armour C:GK p63 only says that they can't use rhinos or razorbacks, so could I put a termi-armoured ordo malleus inquisitor in a chimera?
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Post by: ItsPug
pg 61 - Hunter Killer Missile, last paragraph states they are fired at Ballistic Skill 4, does this also count when fired by a Chimera which is normally BS 3?
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Post by: Hellstorm
Does anyone know when we can expect the INAT FAQ to be updated with grey knights?
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Post by: kryhavok
Q: Does the Nemesis Dreadknight get to double it's STR when using it's Nemesis Doomfists?
Pg. 54 of the GK Codex says the Doomfists follow the rules for Dreadnought Close Combat weapons.
Pg. 73 of the BRB says that "A dreadnought close combat weapon is a power weapon and doubles THE WALKER'S Strength in close combat (up to a maximum of 10).
The NDK is not a walker.
Q: Does the NDK follow normal rules for determining bonus attacks with CCW? i.e. when wielding 2 of the same CCW (2 Doomfists) get +1A for having 2, but when switching to 1 Doomfist and 1 Great Sword, now lose the bonus as its 2 different special CCW.
Pg. 73 of the BRB says only walkers armed with 2 or more CCW gains bonus attack.
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Post by: Formosa
Ravenwing Land speeders are scoring, so there is precedent for others to be scoring. Automatically Appended Next Post: Ravenwing Land speeders are scoring, so there is precedent for other vehicles to be scoring.
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Post by: Homer S
quietus wrote:1) Is Mordrak an independent character? pg40. pg 64
Why is there a question about this? IC is not in his rules on page 82. Page 40 details the only unit he may be an upgrade character in.
2) When Mordrak brings his body guard they become a unit, can he then be joined by an IC? pg.40 pg.64
Since Mordrak with Ghosts is not "units that always consist of a single model" ( BRB, pg. 48) why is this a question?
Maybe I should just delete this...
Homer
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Post by: whitetrash982
pg 96 - refrence sheet - unholy gaze - ref sheet says its strength 8 AP -. however on pg 49, in the powers chart for the demon host, its states that its strength 8 AP 4
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Post by: AlmightyWalrus
Can a Brotherhood Champion that's in base to base contact with a vehicle remove it with "Heroic Sacrifice" if all the conditions to use the power are met and the power is cast successfully?
RAW yes he can, but it's still one of those things that someone should check.
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Post by: nosferatu1001
YEs he can, no issues on rules there. Lukas can do it as well.
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Post by: Synnister
ph34r wrote:nosferatu1001 wrote:No it isnt. Deff dreads are simply moved to Troops, with no other stipulation.
Here you are told you are scoring - in the same way as a RAS LS is scoring.
Scoring as if they were troops.
A vehicle that scores as if it was a troop unit can score with the restriction that it cannot score if it is a vehicle.
It's very cut and dry. There is no rule-supported argument against it.
Codex overrules rulebook. The rulebook says vehicles can't claim objectives. The Codex says that Walkers can claim as if they were troops therefore they claim objectives.
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Post by: DarknessEternal
Synnister wrote:
Codex overrules rulebook. The rulebook says vehicles can't claim objectives. The Codex says that Walkers can claim as if they were troops therefore they claim objectives.
Except that Troops who are vehicles can't claim.
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Post by: Dok
Formosa wrote:Ravenwing Land speeders are scoring, so there is precedent for others to be scoring.
The DA codex says specifically that they are a scoring unit.
There is far more recent precedent of vehicles as troops not scoring. DC dreads and Deff dreds off the top of my head.
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Post by: TheRedDevil
Pg. 56, 21
A unit of Grey knights are hit by 4 Mind Strike missles. How are the subsequent Perils of the Warp resolved.
(Specifically, Are they all allocated to the Justicar, are they resolved one at a time (effecting the Justicar first and then moving on to random members), or are they allocated, then rolled for?)
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Post by: Grey Templar
Dok wrote:Formosa wrote:Ravenwing Land speeders are scoring, so there is precedent for others to be scoring.
The DA codex says specifically that they are a scoring unit.
There is far more recent precedent of vehicles as troops not scoring. DC dreads and Deff dreds off the top of my head.
DC dreds nd Deffdreds can't score.
they are simply moved/already in the troops section of the FoC.
GS simply says the units are scoring as if they were troops. the 'as if they were troops' is simply a clarification.
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Post by: Synnister
DarknessEternal wrote:Synnister wrote:
Codex overrules rulebook. The rulebook says vehicles can't claim objectives. The Codex says that Walkers can claim as if they were troops therefore they claim objectives.
Except that Troops who are vehicles can't claim.
The GS rule doesn't classify the Walker as a troop just allows it to claim objectives as if they were troops. As for vehicles that are troops not being able to claim objectives that's true however, you have a rule in a codex that overrides that rule.
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Post by: Brazila
Does the bonus str from psybolt ammo, make a storm bolted no longer qualify for a defensive weapon?
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Post by: nosferatu1001
Yes, It is now S5
Easy, no rules argument there.
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Post by: Aldarionn
1) Can a Librarian target his own unit, or a vehicle in which he is embarked, with The Summoning psychic power, thus allowing the unit/vehicle to be placed anywhere on the battlefield? The model/unit targeted must be placed within 6" of the Librarian, but if he targets his own unit or a vehicle in which he is embarked, the moment they are placed they are within 6" of the Librarian, allowing for unlimited range on a teleport.
2) If the above is true, and the Librarian in question has a Teleport Homer, can he and his unit use that Teleport Homer to avoid scatter? Again, the only requirements for use of the Teleport Homer are A - the unit restrictions listed in the Teleport Homer entry, B - that the Teleport Homer be present on the battlefield at the start of the turn, and C - that the unit be placed within 6" of the Teleport Homer. The moment the unit is placed they are within 6" of the Librarian, no matter where they are placed, and if they were deployed normally the Teleport Homer was on the board at the beginning of the turn.
References:
The Summoning - Grey Knights Codex Page 25
Teleport Homer - Grey Knights Codex Page 62
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Brazila wrote:Does the bonus str from psybolt ammo, make a storm bolted no longer qualify for a defensive weapon?
nosferatu1001 wrote:Yes, It is now S5
Easy, no rules argument there.
However, a pintle mounted storm bolter bought as a vehicle upgrade is listed specifically as a defensive weapon. Psybolt Ammo would change the weapons Strength to 5, however that does not override the specific wording of a Pintle Mounted Storm Bolter.
From Codex: Grey knights - Page 61
Storm Bolter:
Pintle-Mounted Storm Bolters are weapons fitted to vehicles to provide additional fire support.
Pintle-Mounted Storm Bolters are treated as an additional defensive weapon, with the profile of a normal Storm Bolter. See the Storm Bolter entry for details.
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Post by: NecronLord3
The Teleport Homer in the GK codex specifically states it can only be used for units teleporting onto the battlefield. Summoning is not teleporting it is a psychic power that uses the deep strike rules to place a unit on the battlefield.
Teleport Homer Pg62:
Note that the teleport homer only works for units that are teleporting, not other means.
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Post by: NecronLord3
Is Castellan Crowe an Independent Character? He does not have the rule listed but he is basically built like a brotherhood champion, so I'm inclined to believe it is a mistake and he is depicted in the gallery section of the codex as joined to a purifer squad.
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Post by: nosferatu1001
No, he is not an IC.
It is not a mistake.
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Post by: Slinky
NecronLord3 wrote:Is Castellan Crowe an Independent Character? He does not have the rule listed but he is basically built like a brotherhood champion, so I'm inclined to believe it is a mistake and he is depicted in the gallery section of the codex as joined to a purifer squad.
Does seem odd that he isn't marked as IC, could be deliberate or not, who knows?
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Post by: Sister Stern
1. The Librarian using the Psychic power The Summoning (pg.25), can he do use if while inside a vehicle, as it doesn't seem to require a line of sight to the object he is transporting or the location of it.
2. When using The Summoning (pg.25) and you place a chosen unit within 6 inches of the Librarian using the power. Do you just place and if not enough space roll for mishap on Deep strike chart?
3. Can Librarian use the Summoning on a Vehicle with Warp Stabilisation (pg.61) (yes, GW spells it British way) and as a bonus transport the unit that the Vehicle is carrying as well?
4. Limit on special ammo on Vindicare Assassin, one shot each or just declare before each shot with unlimited bullets of each type? Vehicle Pen. on Turbo Penetrator, is it just 4d6 or 4d6 with Rending or 3+4d6 with Rending or something else entirely?
5. No limit on how many Inquisitorial Henchmen (pg.48-51) type you can get, i.e. 12 Death Cult Assassins, before seemed to be limited to 3 max of each type?
That's all I can think of right now. :3
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Post by: Dok
Grey Templar wrote:Dok wrote:Formosa wrote:Ravenwing Land speeders are scoring, so there is precedent for others to be scoring.
The DA codex says specifically that they are a scoring unit.
There is far more recent precedent of vehicles as troops not scoring. DC dreads and Deff dreds off the top of my head.
DC dreds nd Deffdreds can't score.
they are simply moved/already in the troops section of the FoC.
GS simply says the units are scoring as if they were troops. the 'as if they were troops' is simply a clarification.
Death company dreads are troops and would score just like troops. Except where it says in the rule book that vehicles can never score.
I don't see how defining something as a troop is different than something being actually a troop.
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Post by: NecronLord3
Does the Librarian Psyhcic power Quicksilver override the initiative 1 of units wielding Daemonhammers?
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Post by: nosferatu1001
1) No, as you have to place it within 6" of the librarian, and cannot do so as the libby is not on the table. AS such the vehicle is immediately destroyed, along with the unit inside, as it cannot make it onto the table when it MUST do so.
2) Looks like it - only reason to use the DS rules.
3) Yes, GW a BRITISH company spell it the correct way. Yes, you transport the vehicle and the troops inside it.
4) No limit on ammo, as it doesnt say there is. He's worked out how to bring more than3 bullets...
5) No limit on each type.
Quicksilver is a modifier and cannot override the TH, as the rules for TH state they ignore modifiers to init. Think of it like FC
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Post by: Kapitan Montag
Sister Stern wrote:
3. Can Librarian use the Summoning on a Vehicle with Warp Stabilisation (pg.61) (yes, GW spells it British way) ?
nosferatu1001 wrote:
3) Yes, GW a BRITISH company spell it the correct way. Yes, you transport the vehicle and the troops inside it.
Sorry to be annoying but  people who say that spellings like 'stabilisation' are correct have clearly never looked them up in a dictionary. The same people often say it is the British way. It is not; it is the wrong way. Stabilization is not just the American way of spelling the word, it is also the correct British spelling too. /rant
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Post by: minionboy
Kapitan Montag wrote:Sorry to be annoying but  people who say that spellings like 'stabilisation' are correct have clearly never looked them up in a dictionary. The same people often say it is the British way. It is not; it is the wrong way. Stabilization is not just the American way of spelling the word, it is also the correct British spelling too. /rant
I'm just going to point this out, because clearly you don't know how dumb you sound: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/stabilisation and here too http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/stabilisation. Don't you hate it when you're the one that "clearly never looked them up in a dictionary"
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Post by: Grey elder
Do independant characters still benefit from the BrotherHood Banner's ability when locked in combat, since in combat they become seperate units. Do they still benefit from the +1 attack and passed psyker power? Page 62.
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Post by: Grey Templar
they benifit because they are only a seperate unit for purposes of attack allocation.
an IC that isn't in BtB with an enemy still can't leave the combat.
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Post by: Grey elder
Can the pyskers use the same power twice?
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Post by: nosferatu1001
Yes, unless it is a PSA. There is no inherent limit on the number of times you can use an individual power
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Post by: InquisitorLordAki
The Fortitude rule for vehicles allows the Grey Knight player to ignore stunned and shaken results on a successful psychic test during the GK player's shooting phase.
What leadership value is used? I read somewhere that vehicles have a leadership of 10, but I cannot find where (if someone has a page number, please post it). However, the Fortitude rules on page 33 refers to the Grey Knight pilot. So who is performing the psychic test: the Grey Knight pilot or the Vehicle? If it is the Vehicle, then the test is at a Ldr 10. If it is the Grey Knight, then the test is at a Ldr 8. And what about the Deadnoughts?
If it is the Grey Knight, what happens if they roll a Perils of the Warp? Does the driver die?
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Post by: NecronLord3
nosferatu1001 wrote:Yes, unless it is a PSA. There is no inherent limit on the number of times you can use an individual power
So Psychic communion can be cast multiple times and it specifically states that it is cumulative?
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Post by: nosferatu1001
Inquisitor - see page 21, special rules, oddly enough.
Yes, you can cast communion multiple times.
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Post by: Grey Templar
InquisitorLordAki wrote:The Fortitude rule for vehicles allows the Grey Knight player to ignore stunned and shaken results on a successful psychic test during the GK player's shooting phase.
What leadership value is used? I read somewhere that vehicles have a leadership of 10, but I cannot find where (if someone has a page number, please post it). However, the Fortitude rules on page 33 refers to the Grey Knight pilot. So who is performing the psychic test: the Grey Knight pilot or the Vehicle? If it is the Vehicle, then the test is at a Ldr 10. If it is the Grey Knight, then the test is at a Ldr 8. And what about the Deadnoughts?
If it is the Grey Knight, what happens if they roll a Perils of the Warp? Does the driver die?
Fortitude is done at the beginning of the GKs movement phase.
and the Psychic Pilot rule answers your other question.
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Post by: nosferatu1001
Actually it is just "in" the movement phase, WHEN in the movement phase s up to you.
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Post by: Grey Templar
Yeah, well, you want it at the beginning so the Vehicle can move
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Post by: nosferatu1001
Its more that you dont have to cast it first - you can see how other castings / movement go *first*, before risking the psychic power.
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Post by: Grey elder
Just for the sake of it possibly being in the GW faq, What classifys as a Daemon model, Models with the Daemon special rule and the Avatar of Khaine, or Does this also include Daemon Princes from codex Chaos Space Marine, and the other units in there that are Daemonic, in name and back story like Possesed and the greater Daemons.
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Post by: schadenfreude
2 ongoing debates seem to have no end on dakka dakka.
DK and personal teleporter.
Do servo skulls reduce an OSR to 1D6 scatter.
I'm going to throw in a loophole here that people have not caught on to yet. The Celexus assassin's shooting attack is S5 AP1 BS8 assault 2 and gains an additional shot per psyker within 12". It is not specific that psykers have to be enemy psykers, so friendly psykers would work. The question I have is how do units of psykers such as grey knights or henchmen psykers work? Does the entire unit count as 1 psyker, or is it 1 additional attack per model. The reason I ask is it would be rather easy to get a celexus up to Assault 20, assault 30, or even assault 40 on it's shooting attack if it's near embarked transports of grey knights or henchmen. I don't think that's RAI, but seems clearly legal using RAW as long as each model in the unit is counted as a psyker.
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Post by: Grey Templar
Grey elder wrote:Just for the sake of it possibly being in the GW faq, What classifys as a Daemon model, Models with the Daemon special rule and the Avatar of Khaine, or Does this also include Daemon Princes from codex Chaos Space Marine, and the other units in there that are Daemonic, in name and back story like Possesed and the greater Daemons.
for now, just things with the Deamon special rule and the Avatar of Khaine(as it explicitly states its a deamon in great detail)
so CSM Deamon Princes, summoned deamons, and Posessed arn't deamons for now.
they REALLY should have just copy pasted the Deamon Definition from the previous DH codex. it was so helpful.
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Post by: nosferatu1001
Schaden - this has already been asked. If you read "Brotherhood of Psykers" you will see that each unit is one psyker
If you look at the Henchmen you will notice that NONE of them have the Psyker rule.
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Post by: schadenfreude
nosferatu1001 wrote:Schaden - this has already been asked. If you read "Brotherhood of Psykers" you will see that each unit is one psyker
If you look at the Henchmen you will notice that NONE of them have the Psyker rule.
Hmmm you're right about the RAW.
RAI=Psykers in a henchman squad should be treated the same as "Brotherhood of Psykers"
I'm saying that not because I want an assassin to gain shots from henchmen, I'm saying that because by strict RAW psykers in a henchman squad are completely immune to any and every anti psyker ability and piece of wargear. It's going to cause a huge stink if people start saying they are immune to stuff like the crucible of malediction.
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Post by: gendoikari87
I don't feel like wading through four pages of stuff to see if thesehave been asked i just want to make sure they get in.
1) Coteaz. A) does he allow INQ warbands to fulfill the mandatory troops slots. B) do you still get to take infinite of them.
2) Falchions 1A or 2A? Comes down to meaning in the entry of an absolute rule or clairification.
3) OSR and Servo Skulls Same as the above.
2&3 I side with 1A and reduction in scatter I can see how it would go both ways but I side with this interpretation as i have seen in other codecies things faqed along the lines of clairification. I'll have page numbers when I get home.
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Post by: nobody
Grey Templar wrote:Grey elder wrote:Just for the sake of it possibly being in the GW faq, What classifys as a Daemon model, Models with the Daemon special rule and the Avatar of Khaine, or Does this also include Daemon Princes from codex Chaos Space Marine, and the other units in there that are Daemonic, in name and back story like Possesed and the greater Daemons.
for now, just things with the Deamon special rule and the Avatar of Khaine(as it explicitly states its a deamon in great detail)
so CSM Deamon Princes, summoned deamons, and Posessed arn't deamons for now.
they REALLY should have just copy pasted the Deamon Definition from the previous DH codex. it was so helpful.
Except when GW introduced new codices with units that weren't listed in the DH codex that caused arguments (like the aforementioned lesser and greater daemons).
In any event, I feel comfortable including Lesser and Greater Daemons in the list of "daemon units" thanks to the Daemon Summoning rule on pg 61 of the CSM codex:
Units of Daemons always start the game in Reserve, even in Missions that do not normally allow the Reserves rule to be used. When a Daemon unit becomes available from Reserve, it must be deployed as detailed below.
Once Deployed, the Daemons cannot do anything else in that turn's Movement phase, but after that they are free to act as normal (they can Assault in the same turn that they enter the game).
Possessed, Daemon Princes, and Demonically possessed vehicles (which were under the previous rules) are considered iffy enough that I wouldn't argue them.
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Post by: gendoikari87
Here's another one Jokaero and the orbital strike relay, does it benefit from invoncievable customization rule? I say no, but that's purely for game balance issues, though I recognize that it is pobably okay rules wise.
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Post by: schadenfreude
gendoikari87 wrote:Here's another one Jokaero and the orbital strike relay, does it benefit from invoncievable customization rule? I say no, but that's purely for game balance issues, though I recognize that it is pobably okay rules wise.
It's not technically a weapon so it would fall into the same category of a psyker's psychic barrage.
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Post by: nosferatu1001
As above. It isnt a weapon.
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Post by: NecronLord3
How long does GW ususally wait to put an FAQ out? I haven't payed attention since Necrons were released.
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Post by: DaKKaLAnce
3 months? Thats how long it took for the DE i believe.
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Post by: Dok
What is the Dreadknights number of attacks with a CC weapon other than a doomfist?
I would say it's pretty clear for the T. Hammer as you are specifically prohibited from getting another CC attack unless you have a second T. hammer. (as per the T. hammer rules)
For the greatsword it's a bit more murky to me. It is a single CCW. The doomfist is a single CCW. So therefore it must give you an extra attack (Much like the Furioso librarian with it's force weapon/bloodfist combo).
However, you run into the problem of the text for DCCW's. "If a walker is armed with two or more CCWs, it gains an one bonus attack for each additional weapon over the first." This again references a walker since they were the only things that had DCCWs prior to the GK codex.
It seems to me by the way it's worded, if you can gain a bonus attack for 2 doomfists, then there is no reason you wouldn't get a bonus attack for doomfist+greatsword.
If I misinterpreted anything, let me know. I don't have the GK codex handy. just the rule book.
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Post by: AlmightyWalrus
Dok wrote:What is the Dreadknights number of attacks with a CC weapon other than a doomfist?
I would say it's pretty clear for the T. Hammer as you are specifically prohibited from getting another CC attack unless you have a second T. hammer. (as per the T. hammer rules)
For the greatsword it's a bit more murky to me. It is a single CCW. The doomfist is a single CCW. So therefore it must give you an extra attack (Much like the Furioso librarian with it's force weapon/bloodfist combo).
However, you run into the problem of the text for DCCW's. "If a walker is armed with two or more CCWs, it gains an one bonus attack for each additional weapon over the first." This again references a walker since they were the only things that had DCCWs prior to the GK codex.
It seems to me by the way it's worded, if you can gain a bonus attack for 2 doomfists, then there is no reason you wouldn't get a bonus attack for doomfist+greatsword.
If I misinterpreted anything, let me know. I don't have the GK codex handy. just the rule book.
You could argue that since the Doomfist is a power weapon, you still get the extra attack and the "If a walker" part is just to clarify that walkers in this case follow the rules for CCWs for non-vehicles.
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Post by: nosferatu1001
2 different special CCW /= extra attack.
Not even difficult that one.
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Post by: dancingcricket
How does psychic pilot (pg 21) interact with with the Pariahs Soulless and Psychic Abomination rules (Necron codex pg 17)
Is the vehicle considered LD7 per the soulless rule or Ld10 per psychic pilot when rolling for psychic tests to use fortitude?
Is the vehicle, being considered a psyker per the above mentioned psychic pilot rule, subject to Psychic Abomination, and thereby necessitating morale checks and potentially fleeing?
Are walkers that are psykers in close combat with Pariahs subject to the morale test to see if they need a 6 to hit? Walkers in the BRB (pg 73) say defeated walkers do not take morale tests, but that's combat resolution, and only at the end of combat. No other indication is given.
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Post by: nosferatu1001
The last is easy - they are only psykers when casting their power, which isnt in close combat.
As for the previous - they are Ld7, codex specific rule overriding the psychic pilot rule.
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Post by: Archasimos
nosferatu1001 wrote:As above. It isnt a weapon.
What about the fact that in the description of the Orbital Strike Relay it says it is treated as a ranged weapon, and that it is listed in the weapons chart at the back of the book?
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Post by: nosferatu1001
Treated as /= Is
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Post by: Aramoro
gendoikari87 wrote:
3) OSR and Servo Skulls Same as the above.
This is actually really really clear.
Servo Skulls reduce the scatter of your Blast Templates [General]
OSR's always scatter the full 2D6" [Specific]
Thus Servo Skulls do not reduce your OSR scatter.
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Post by: Cheex
This is a bit of an obvious answer, but I have no doubt that some bright spark will actually try it somewhere.
Page 62 - Psybolt Ammunition states that the model's shots gain +1 strength if it is firing one of the weapons on the list. It does not state that only that weapon's shots gain +1 strength. Does this mean that a vehicle with Psybolt Ammunition can fire all of its other weapons at +1 strength, as long as it also fires at least one of the listed weapons?
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Post by: AlmightyWalrus
nosferatu1001 wrote:2 different special CCW /= extra attack.
Not even difficult that one.
How is 2 Nemesis Doomfists 2 different SCCWs? Furthermore, thanks to Doomfists counting as PWs, wouldn't that mean that a Greatsword Dreadknight would have a Force Weapon, which is a power weapon, and a Nemesis Doomfist, which is a DCCW/Force Weapon, both of which count as power weapons in addition to their bonus rules?
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Post by: Elios Harg
A greatsword and a Doomfist count as 2 different special weapons. Both are special Force Weapons (the Greatsword having it's special rules of re-rolling and the Doomfist having different special rules of doubling S)
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Post by: Grey elder
Does the Vindicare special ability to allocate wounds instead of targeting models, bypass Loki"s re-roll ability shoudl it be swtiched to visiable models or was it intended to allocate hits agaisnt models?
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Post by: dumplingman
how does the the vindicare's anti invul save round effect ghazgu thrakka? Here is the scenario I'm thinking of. If I shoot thrakka with the anti invul shot before he mega waaghs, would he still get the 2++ save when he does waagh? since I first took away his 5++ but then he gets a new 2++ or would he not get it at all?
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Post by: gendoikari87
here's a question: if you have four models in a chimera, and you have five inquisitorial psykers, can ALL fire out. Basically for firepoints purposes do psykers count as being 1 model or however many are in their squad?
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Post by: veritechc
Does the Jalaero's Inconceivable Customization also extend to Independent Characters that join the unit pre-game?
If you roll Penetrating Ammunition does that mean that the Jakaero and his units weapons have rending? Does this extend to Plasma Cannon toting Servitors?
If you roll Improved Gun Sights does that mean that the Jakaero and his units weapons get 12’ more range?
Does the Vindicare Assassin's Shield-Breaker round also wound the model after its effect? What if it rends? Does that mean the model looses all invulnerable saves then takes a un-saveable wound?
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Post by: gendoikari87
on the jokaero yes the extend to the squad, not sure about attached IC's I would imagine so if they are part of the squad.
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Post by: nosferatu1001
AlmightyWalrus wrote:nosferatu1001 wrote:2 different special CCW /= extra attack.
Not even difficult that one.
How is 2 Nemesis Doomfists 2 different SCCWs? Furthermore, thanks to Doomfists counting as PWs, wouldn't that mean that a Greatsword Dreadknight would have a Force Weapon, which is a power weapon, and a Nemesis Doomfist, which is a DCCW/Force Weapon, both of which count as power weapons in addition to their bonus rules?
The example was a Sword and a Doomfist. Which are different Special Weapons, as they are not named the same. While they may function partly as power weapons, they are NOT power weapons that the line on p42 kicks in - you NEVER get the bonus attacks. That is what you give up to get the reroll wounds and hits - the extra attack.
Veritech - for all your "does this mean:" just read tyhe codex. Unit means unit, it doesnt mean "just the jokaero" in the unit. So yes, rending plasma cannon.
Yes, the shield breaker causes a wound. It tells you this in the rules for the round. And, assuming you have removed all inv saves, it causes an unsaveable wound (cover saves excepting, of course) ANYWAY - it is AP1.
Gendolkari - um, read the psyker henchmen entry, and actually READ it this time. It states that all psykers in the unit fire ONE blast total, with S and AP changing dependingon the number. Only one morel "fires" out.
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Post by: Sothas
BuFFo wrote:Can a Crucible of Malediction from the Dark Eldar Arcane Wargear affect Grey Knight Vehicles? If the answer is yes, what is the out come? Will the vehicle get removed from the game without a LD test due to not having a LD, or can the Vehicle use it's LD of 10 for very specific psychic purposes for the Malediction as well? Also, if the Vehicle is removed from play, what happens to the unit inside?
Psychic Piliot Rule: "...treat as being a psyker (Mastery Level 1) and leadership 10 for the purpose of Psychic tests and psychic hoods." It is no a psyker for any other reasons. It is a not a psyker for Crucible of Malediction since it doesn't not require a test, and also does not count for the Animus Speculum of the Culexus Assassin. It's very specific.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
gendoikari87 wrote:here's a question: if you have four models in a chimera, and you have five inquisitorial psykers, can ALL fire out. Basically for firepoints purposes do psykers count as being 1 model or however many are in their squad?
Psykers count as one model shooting out of a vehicle if they use a shooting psychic attack. If it is not a shooting psychic power, but it targets a unit, then it does not count as shooting through a fire point and can be used even if there is no fire point. For example, a Farseer can use Fortune on a unit while the farseer is in a transport even though it doesn't have a fire point since fortune is not a shooting attack. A power used this way measures the distance from the vehicle they are embarked in. I don't know where else this is, but it is at least all in the Eldar FAQ. You cannot target a unit that is in a vehicle either. However, powers that work on the squad, but do not actually target themselves will work, for example Warp Quake can be used while in a transport and will measure the 12 inches from the vehicle the GKs are in.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
th3eviltwin wrote:With Coteaz do henchmen start takeing up troop slots on the FOS?
"Inquisitorial Henchmen warbands are troops choices in an army that includes Inquisitor Torquemada Coteaz, and are not limited by the number of Inquisitors in your army."
The first half is very clear. They are troop choices. They use troop FOC, and troop FOC only. (as oppose to SM master of the forge that allows dreads in both elite and heavy). The last half is the part that confuses everyone, but taken in context with the first half, this means you only need Coteaz to have more than one, and you may have up to 6.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Pyriel- wrote:Shrouding: P25.
Can it stack.
A: If one librarian casts shrouding 3 times on the same unit in the same player phase will that unit benefit from a 2+ cover save?
B: If two different librarians each cast shrouding on the same unit will the cover save stack?
C: Can a librarian cast shrouding while inside a vehicle and if so will range count as from the vehicles hull?
D: Can a librarian use his psychic hood while inside a vehicle?
A: No, A unit that has stealth will then have stealth again, not Stealth v.2. Stealth does not stack with its self.
B: See A.
C: Yes and yes. See Eldar FAQ. A psychic power that is not a shooting power can be used while within a vehicle even without a fire point. At this point you measure the distance from the hull of the vehicle.
D: Yes. Same idea as C. Doesn't target a unit, targets a power.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
quietus wrote:1) Is Mordrak an independent character? pg40. pg 64
2) When Mordrak brings his body guard they become a unit, can he then be joined by an IC? pg.40 pg.64
3) Can the Lib stealth an vehicle, does he need LOS can this be done even if he has, during his turn reached his mastery level?
pg. 24-25 pg.67
1) No
2) No reason why he can't. An IC can join a squad. Two ICs can join the same squad. Why couldn't he have some ICs?
3) I don't see why not, but vehicles can't have cover saves so what would it do?
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Post by: Hellstorm
Sothas wrote:quietus wrote:3) Can the Lib stealth an vehicle, does he need LOS can this be done even if he has, during his turn reached his mastery level?
pg. 24-25 pg.67
3) I don't see why not, but vehicles can't have cover saves so what would it do?
actually smoke launchers give a 4+ cover so with stealth they have a 3+
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Post by: nosferatu1001
3) A libby can of course cast stealth, and this can effect a vehicle (as no targgetting occurs, its a 6" bubble), as vehicles can take cover saves.
And, similarly - you cannot cast more psychic powers per turn than you are allowed. A master level 2 psyker CANNOT cast stealth if they have already cast 2 powers that turn.
No LOS needed, as already stated: its a bubble. You dont cast it "on" ANYTHING.
A flat out SR with the Shrouding now has a 3+ cover save.
Sothas - Mordrak isnt an IC, however isnt always a unit of just one model so can always be joined by ICs
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Post by: gendoikari87
nosferatu1001 wrote:3) A libby can of course cast stealth, and this can effect a vehicle (as no targgetting occurs, its a 6" bubble), as vehicles can take cover saves.
And, similarly - you cannot cast more psychic powers per turn than you are allowed. A master level 2 psyker CANNOT cast stealth if they have already cast 2 powers that turn.
No LOS needed, as already stated: its a bubble. You dont cast it "on" ANYTHING.
A flat out SR with the Shrouding now has a 3+ cover save.
Sothas - Mordrak isnt an IC, however isnt always a unit of just one model so can always be joined by ICs
Flat out is a 3+ something... It might be and invuln but I think it's a 3+ cover so under shrouding.... dear god. 2+ cover save on a vehicle.
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Post by: Grey Templar
Flat out is a 4+ cover save.
Turbo-boosting(which is what Bikes do) changes your armor into an Invuln.
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Post by: Spellbound
No, it used to. Now it's a cover save.
They did that to get away from psycannons mysteriously becoming incredibly deadly to fast-moving bikes.
Now they're subject to flamers and such
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Post by: Sothas
Oh, my apologies. I was thinking for some reason that the save vehicles got was something different than a cover save. It is infact a cover save.
As for Mordrak. He is not an IC, so he cannot join other units. There are only two units an IC cannot join. Vehicle squdrons and units that ALWAYS consist of 1 model. Mordrak is neither of these, so he can be joined by an IC. Core rulebook pg. 48. Automatically Appended Next Post: gendoikari87 wrote:
Falchions 1A or 2A? Comes down to meaning in the entry of an absolute rule or clairification.
The weapon is a "Pair of falchions" which is actually listed as one weapon. Then the rule says "A weilder of a pair of falchions has +1 attack." No where does it ever say that this is two weapons that recieve a +1 attack for have an additional CC weapon. The falchions are not 2 CC weapons, but instead one weapon that recieves +1 attack.
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Post by: Spellbound
BUT, when you HAVE 2 ccw, you get a bonus attack.
So this seems to imply that having a pair gives an attack, then you get an attack for having two ccw.
I personally feel like it should be just +1, but it's unclear as it stands.
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Post by: nosferatu1001
Sothas - no, it says that a Falchion is a NFW, and then says you have two of them
A NFW IS a CCW. It definitely IS a CCW, this is entirely irrefutable, as it is a power weapon
So, you have two power weapons and thus gain the 2 CCW bonus. You ALSO gain +1 Attack as the special bonus of the Falchions, same as the special bonus of a Sword is to gain +1 to your invulnerable.
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Post by: Nephil1m
Are the Jokaero's Inconceivable Customizations conferred upon Independant Characters that join his unit?
If so, could this result in the IC getting a 1+ Armor save?
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Post by: Jidmah
No save can ever be better than 2+.
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Post by: nosferatu1001
Nephil1m wrote:Are the Jokaero's Inconceivable Customizations conferred upon Independant Characters that join his unit?
If so, could this result in the IC getting a 1+ Armor save?
Impossible. Read the rulebook.
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Post by: veritechc
nosferatu1001 wrote:Nephil1m wrote:Are the Jokaero's Inconceivable Customizations conferred upon Independant Characters that join his unit?
If so, could this result in the IC getting a 1+ Armor save?
Impossible. Read the rulebook.
Which part is impossible? The Jakaero gives his unit Inconceivable Customizations does that include an IC joined before they get on the board?
I do know that no armor save can be above 2+. The rest of the customizations could be really nice on an Independent Character.
Read the rulebook is not really an answer.
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Post by: nosferatu1001
Given the rulebook FAQ which states that the IC starts with a unit at deployment, then yes - you can improve their weapons, potentially
The rulebook states no armour save can go over 2+ . If it doesnt specify it can go to 1+ it cannot.
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Post by: veritechc
nosferatu1001 wrote:Given the rulebook FAQ which states that the IC starts with a unit at deployment, then yes - you can improve their weapons, potentially
The rulebook states no armour save can go over 2+ . If it doesnt specify it can go to 1+ it cannot.
Agreed! Way, way better answer. Thank you.
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Post by: Xca|iber
Dunno if this is already added, but for posterity's sake:
What is the profile of a Multi-laser in the Grey Knight Codex?
(As far as I can tell it isn't actually defined anywhere... please correct me if I'm wrong). I think we all know the answer, but still, it's a bit of an oversight that needs to be addressed (unless I just missed it somewhere).
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Post by: AlmightyWalrus
Xca|iber wrote:Dunno if this is already added, but for posterity's sake:
What is the profile of a Multi-laser in the Grey Knight Codex?
(As far as I can tell it isn't actually defined anywhere... please correct me if I'm wrong). I think we all know the answer, but still, it's a bit of an oversight that needs to be addressed (unless I just missed it somewhere).
It's on the henchman page where the Chimera is detailed.
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Post by: Xca|iber
AlmightyWalrus wrote:Xca|iber wrote:Dunno if this is already added, but for posterity's sake:
What is the profile of a Multi-laser in the Grey Knight Codex?
(As far as I can tell it isn't actually defined anywhere... please correct me if I'm wrong). I think we all know the answer, but still, it's a bit of an oversight that needs to be addressed (unless I just missed it somewhere).
It's on the henchman page where the Chimera is detailed.
Thanks. I didn't think to look there after searching the reference sheet and wargear sections.
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Post by: Jaon
Jokaero upgrading ICs weapons.... 36' Psycannons....mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..... Automatically Appended Next Post: Exactly how long until this FAQ is up?
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Post by: gendoikari87
Xca|iber wrote:Dunno if this is already added, but for posterity's sake:
What is the profile of a Multi-laser in the Grey Knight Codex?
(As far as I can tell it isn't actually defined anywhere... please correct me if I'm wrong). I think we all know the answer, but still, it's a bit of an oversight that needs to be addressed (unless I just missed it somewhere).
uh... it's an um....
str: 10
AP: 1
Assault: 100
ah dang ninja'd
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Post by: daedalus-templarius
Does a unit inside of a vehicle make the vehicle inherit their GKGM special rule?
Scouting on a squad of paladins inside of a LR, does the LR get scouting?
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Post by: nosferatu1001
Check out the Scout rule. Perfectly, 100% answered in the rules, with no margin for error
Given they are a seperate unit AND the LR CANNOT be dedicated, Scout has no effect on a Land Raider. No need to FAQ something answered by just reading the 2 rules in question...
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Post by: Brian2000
1. P.62 Suggested erratum to Psybolt Ammunition: add these sentences to the end. Psybolt ammunition is an additional type of ammunition carried by the model. Therefore, during each firing phase, the model may choose not to use Psybolt ammunition for any weapon (as listed above), and use the standard strength ammunition for that weapon. Thus, a player moving a rhino at combat speed, chooses to fire it's assault cannon using Psybolt ammunition (Strength 7); and all defensive weapons: the player chooses to fire a pintle mounted storm bolter with standard strength ammunition (Strength 4) which would allow it to be fired as a defensive weapon. Rationale: a. 40k has models that carry and fire different types of ammunition. b. Currently, players specify the type of ammunition they are using during each firing phase. c. Players choose the type of ammunition that is fired for tactical advantages. d. Even the earliest real tanks carried different types of ammo: HE, AP, Smoke. And troops weapons too. But that was 1.9K. I believe the suggested erratum is consistent with all the current rules. It also is consistent with the fluff on Psybolt Ammunition which states it is difficult to produce. Additionally, a player may not want Psybolt ammunition on all that model's weapons and shouldn't be forced to use it. This erratum allows flexibility (which is crucial in this game) versus the all or nothing. 2. P. 85 Isn't having Digital Weapons as an option on the Brotherhood Champion moot as they have the Anointed Blade as wargear? I've created a separate thread for feedback to reduce clutter on this thread. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/365831.page
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Post by: nosferatu1001
1) No. There is no allowance to choose, so you may not (tghere is no "Normal ammo" type)
2) Completeness. There are other instances where there are useless items of wargear.
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Post by: dariakus
Heroic Sacrifice (p.26) - What happens when this is used successfully against a transport with a unit inside? Is the unit removed from the table as well? Do they get to make an emergency disembarkation? If so, from where?
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Post by: nosferatu1001
It removes everything, unit inside. There is no disembark possible, and no emergency disembark possible, because they are not being force3d to disembark
Yes, you can DoG a vehicole. Good use as it autohits...
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Post by: BSent
Is it possible to use the summoning power on a vehicle equipped with a warp stabilizer field on the same turn a librarian deepstrikes? pg. 25
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Post by: AlmightyWalrus
nosferatu1001 wrote:It removes everything, unit inside. There is no disembark possible, and no emergency disembark possible, because they are not being force3d to disembark
Yes, you can DoG a vehicole. Good use as it autohits...
Don't you have to die for HS to work though?
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Post by: somerandomdude
Yes, and you can die from DoG, or from being in a multiple combat that involved charging a vehicle, and having him killed by another unit (HS does not say which model can be affected, just that it affects one model in the combat).
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Post by: dariakus
The DoG question seems to be irrelevant and I've edited it out. The power can only be used when dying in the Assault phase, and you can't die from DoG in the Assault phase... can you?
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Post by: nosferatu1001
Soulx wrote:Is it possible to use the summoning power on a vehicle equipped with a warp stabilizer field on the same turn a librarian deepstrikes? pg. 25
No, see main BRB FAQ. YOu cannot use "start of turn" Psychic powers the turn you arrive from reserves
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Post by: bob sprocket
Mordrak & Thawn: Both are (effectively) upgrade characters. Neither have Brotherhood of Psykers as a rule, but the remainder of their units do. Are they bound by this rule? (BoP states a unit can only cast a single power per turn).
Can Thawn and Mordrak cast their own psychic powers in addition to their unit activating hammerhand/force weapons?
If they can't cast separetly, how does Perils of the Warp affect those units (being Mordrak isn't a justicar or knight of the flame, and Thawn is only maybe recognised as a Justicar)?
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Post by: Dok
To my knowledge, they are both psyker (mastery level 1).
20243
Post by: Grey Templar
Thawn is Mastery Level 2.
so he can cast Hammerhand for his squad as it benifits all models, then both the squad and Thawn activate their Force weapons.
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Post by: Dok
nosferatu1001 wrote:Sothas - no, it says that a Falchion is a NFW, and then says you have two of them
A NFW IS a CCW. It definitely IS a CCW, this is entirely irrefutable, as it is a power weapon
So, you have two power weapons and thus gain the 2 CCW bonus. You ALSO gain +1 Attack as the special bonus of the Falchions, same as the special bonus of a Sword is to gain +1 to your invulnerable.
Just a bit of precedent on this: As I was looking through the C: SM book, I noticed Assault terminators are listed as having the wargear - Lightning claws. I'm fairly sure no one has ever argued that assault terminators don't get a bonus attack for multiple CC weapons. So there's that.
In addition, under the entry for The Raven's Talons "These are a pair of master-crafted Lightning claws. etc"
Neither has a reminder that you get a bonus attack for having a pair or multiple. They just follow the rules for having more than one special CC weapon of the same type.
Both of these entries lend credence to the idea that falchions give +2 attacks total. Automatically Appended Next Post: Grey Templar wrote:Thawn is Mastery Level 2.
so he can cast Hammerhand for his squad as it benifits all models, then both the squad and Thawn activate their Force weapons.
Right on, I couldn't remember which level each was. Thanks!
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Post by: morgendonner
Grey elder wrote:Just for the sake of it possibly being in the GW faq, What classifys as a Daemon model, Models with the Daemon special rule and the Avatar of Khaine, or Does this also include Daemon Princes from codex Chaos Space Marine, and the other units in there that are Daemonic, in name and back story like Possesed and the greater Daemons.
I also think this is definitely one that needs to get a ruling on because I can see this getting tossed in the air. It's really just the CSM units that need to get ruled on IMO but maybe better safe than sorry.
Another example not mentioned by Grey elder that's important to include a ruling on is any Chaos vehicle with Daemonic Possession.
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Post by: Grey Templar
morgendonner wrote:Grey elder wrote:Just for the sake of it possibly being in the GW faq, What classifys as a Daemon model, Models with the Daemon special rule and the Avatar of Khaine, or Does this also include Daemon Princes from codex Chaos Space Marine, and the other units in there that are Daemonic, in name and back story like Possesed and the greater Daemons.
I also think this is definitely one that needs to get a ruling on because I can see this getting tossed in the air. It's really just the CSM units that need to get ruled on IMO but maybe better safe than sorry.
Another example not mentioned by Grey elder that's important to include a ruling on is any Chaos vehicle with Daemonic Possession.
specifically those posessed vehicles with a WS.
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Post by: simonbromley
What happen if I have mulitple castings of Cleansing Flame in the same combat? (From different units)
Do they all happen at the same time, or do you remove caualties between each one?
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Post by: Deuce11
nosferatu1001 wrote:Pyriel - for Summoning the BRB FAQ already answers that I believe - it states you cannot use "start of movement phase / turn" abilities after a unit arrives from reserves
SW FAQed this for Logan's "High King" SR to say "yes, Logan MAY use High King after entering from reserve." The outcome may be the same for GKs.
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Post by: DarknessEternal
Deuce11 wrote:nosferatu1001 wrote:Pyriel - for Summoning the BRB FAQ already answers that I believe - it states you cannot use "start of movement phase / turn" abilities after a unit arrives from reserves
SW FAQed this for Logan's "High King" SR to say "yes, Logan MAY use High King after entering from reserve." The outcome may be the same for GKs.
Wow, that's freaking stupid. That's tacit approval to have any "at that the start of the turn" effect actually occur "whenever the hell you feel like it".
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Post by: Deuce11
DarknessEternal wrote:Deuce11 wrote:nosferatu1001 wrote:Pyriel - for Summoning the BRB FAQ already answers that I believe - it states you cannot use "start of movement phase / turn" abilities after a unit arrives from reserves
SW FAQed this for Logan's "High King" SR to say "yes, Logan MAY use High King after entering from reserve." The outcome may be the same for GKs.
Wow, that's freaking stupid. That's tacit approval to have any "at that the start of the turn" effect actually occur "whenever the hell you feel like it".
Not necessarily. It just means it is game for an FAQ to change the general rules set forth by the BGB FAQ. Unfortunately this also means this question must now be raised with every single codex release to get the right answer.
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Post by: NecronLord3
Does the Vindicare's Turbo Penetrating round(when not shot at vehicles) cause 2 allocatable wounds to a unit or does it cause 1 wound to a single model or unit that is then doubled. Also does the opponent roll 1 save or 2 against this shot?
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Post by: TL Shaggy
Q: How will Shadows in the warp affect strike squads?
The shadows says " Any Pysker within 12"" If the justicar is at 13" away but a strike marine is within 12" what happens?
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Post by: Dok
NecronLord3 wrote:Does the Vindicare's Turbo Penetrating round(when not shot at vehicles) cause 2 allocatable wounds to a unit or does it cause 1 wound to a single model or unit that is then doubled. Also does the opponent roll 1 save or 2 against this shot?
It says in the turbo-pen rule that it inflicts the wounds on a model.
You make one saving throw per wound. PG20 in the rule book. You make a save when you take a wound. You are never given permission to make one roll vs multiple wounds.
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Post by: NecronLord3
Dok wrote:NecronLord3 wrote:Does the Vindicare's Turbo Penetrating round(when not shot at vehicles) cause 2 allocatable wounds to a unit or does it cause 1 wound to a single model or unit that is then doubled. Also does the opponent roll 1 save or 2 against this shot?
It says in the turbo-pen rule that it inflicts the wounds on a model.
You make one saving throw per wound. PG20 in the rule book. You make a save when you take a wound. You are never given permission to make one roll vs multiple wounds.
That works more clearly. Now how about Shield Breaker, does it do any damage or just remove the Inv. save?
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Post by: AlmightyWalrus
NecronLord3 wrote:Dok wrote:NecronLord3 wrote:Does the Vindicare's Turbo Penetrating round(when not shot at vehicles) cause 2 allocatable wounds to a unit or does it cause 1 wound to a single model or unit that is then doubled. Also does the opponent roll 1 save or 2 against this shot?
It says in the turbo-pen rule that it inflicts the wounds on a model.
You make one saving throw per wound. PG20 in the rule book. You make a save when you take a wound. You are never given permission to make one roll vs multiple wounds.
That works more clearly. Now how about Shield Breaker, does it do any damage or just remove the Inv. save?
Since it clearly states that the victim may take any remaining saves once the invuln is gone, it does damage as normal.
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Post by: yperihitikos
About falchions:
Codex Grey Knights
Nemesis falchions - Page 54
The wielder of a pair of Nemesis falchions has +1 Attack.
5th ed. Rulebook
Fighting with two single-handed weapons - Page 42
Two normal close combat weapon
These models gain one bonus attack...
Two of the same special weapon
These models gain one additional attack
When you read the rules you do realise that the author used two words with different meaning. "has" and "gain" .
A model that wields "a pair of Nemesis falchions" automatically has +1 Attack, because I repeat it wields "a pair of Nemesis falchions". Not because it is a pair of weapons.
When the rules refer to weapons in combat the authors use the word "gain", "bonus attack", "additional attack". They are extra attacks. Attacks that you gain for using X number of the same weapon type. A "pair" means "two". Since nemesis weapons are special and not normal weapons, a "wielder of a pair of Nemesis falchions" means "a wielder of two of the same special weapon". And for this reason you "gain one additional attack".
To conclude, you don't have +2 attacks and you don't get +2 attacks. You have +1 Attack because of the use of the falchions and you gain +1 attack in close combat because of the two same weapons in each hand.
I emphasize the "a" in attack because that's the way they are written in the rules. For falchions is "Attack" and for close combat weapons it's "attack".
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Post by: NecronLord3
If an army contains two units with Grand Strategy how do those effects work together?
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Post by: nosferatu1001
NecronLord3 wrote:If an army contains two units with Grand Strategy how do those effects work together?
Exactly as it says in the book? There is no conflict, none.
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Post by: Sothas
TL Shaggy wrote:Q: How will Shadows in the warp affect strike squads? The shadows says " Any Pysker within 12"" If the justicar is at 13" away but a strike marine is within 12" what happens? The entire unit is the psyker, not just the Justicar. The only thing different with the justicar is that PotW affect him first. So if one model is within 12" then it is affect by shadows in the warp.
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Post by: TL Shaggy
Balls
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Post by: NecronLord3
nosferatu1001 wrote:NecronLord3 wrote:If an army contains two units with Grand Strategy how do those effects work together?
Exactly as it says in the book? There is no conflict, none.
Okay so I can nominate D3 units to scout and be scoring.
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Post by: nosferatu1001
Yes, why couldn't you? You can even have 2d3 units, they don't have to be the same d3 each time.
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Post by: Jidmah
NecronLord3 wrote:nosferatu1001 wrote:NecronLord3 wrote:If an army contains two units with Grand Strategy how do those effects work together?
Exactly as it says in the book? There is no conflict, none.
Okay so I can nominate D3 units to scout and be scoring.
You could get less scoring units that scout units and vice versa.
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Post by: Theofilos
yperihitikos wrote:About falchions:
Codex Grey Knights
Nemesis falchions - Page 54
The wielder of a pair of Nemesis falchions has +1 Attack.
5th ed. Rulebook
Fighting with two single-handed weapons - Page 42
Two normal close combat weapon
These models gain one bonus attack...
Two of the same special weapon
These models gain one additional attack
When you read the rules you do realise that the author used two words with different meaning. "has" and "gain" .
A model that wields "a pair of Nemesis falchions" automatically has +1 Attack, because I repeat it wields "a pair of Nemesis falchions". Not because it is a pair of weapons.
When the rules refer to weapons in combat the authors use the word "gain", "bonus attack", "additional attack". They are extra attacks. Attacks that you gain for using X number of the same weapon type. A "pair" means "two". Since nemesis weapons are special and not normal weapons, a "wielder of a pair of Nemesis falchions" means "a wielder of two of the same special weapon". And for this reason you "gain one additional attack".
To conclude, you don't have +2 attacks and you don't get +2 attacks. You have +1 Attack because of the use of the falchions and you gain +1 attack in close combat because of the two same weapons in each hand.
I emphasize the "a" in attack because that's the way they are written in the rules. For falchions is "Attack" and for close combat weapons it's "attack".
Tottaly Agreed!
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Post by: TL Shaggy
I think it's slightly silly to think falchion will be allowed to give purifiers 5 attacks charging
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Post by: Grey Templar
not really, look up the YMDC thread to see the arguments as to why it is neither overpowered nor against the rules.
the basic gist was that Falchions are super expensive realtive to the GKs base cost and inherent abilities that only +2As actually justifies their cost.
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Post by: TL Shaggy
Disagree , I don't think for a second that GW will allow Purifers have to have 5 attacks with force weapons ( paired up with hammerhand or MoT) .
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Post by: nosferatu1001
TL Shaggy wrote:Disagree , I don't think for a second that GW will allow Purifers have to have 5 attacks with force weapons ( paired up with hammerhand or MoT) .
Yet you offer absolutely no rational basis for this.
As was said: reread the thread, notice you are now making ~30ppm PAGK that die as easily as 16ppm Marines. Or making expensive GKTs that dont perform as well as LC armed terminators.
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Post by: Shenra
When you have to take a leadership test on 3d6 in order to target a C. assassin during the shooting phase, how does this affect template weapons? In other words, if a large blast template is aimed at a nearby unit and it scatters, does the shooter still have to take the leadership test?
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Post by: nosferatu1001
No; you did not target the assassin.
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Post by: Kreedos
Is cleansing flame always a CC attack for all purposes, or is it a psychic attack that is worded as such to only count towards combat resolution? If so, would cleansing flame deny a squad their invul save that can only be used in CC?
Such as 4+ Witches dodge, or 2+ Nemisis Warding Staves.
ex.
"Unsaved wounds caused by Cleansing Flame are counted as having been caused in close combat for all purposes." pg 31 GK Codex
With the wording above, it states that only when a wound is unsaved (thus having taken an armor save already) then does it become a close combat attack.
Until that point it's a psychic attack that happens before CC happens, only until all saves have been made does it count as a CC attack for purposes of combat resolution. The wording would make the wounds from cleansing flame psychic attacks that happen right before CC but still count for combat resolution.
Thus, denying all CC only invul saves.
Discussion Thread
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/369342.page
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Post by: invisiblade
The Falchions defiantly is going to need an FAQ/Errata. Before reading through this thread, I had read it as there are two of them in the 'fluff', but you only gain 1 attack, so Purifiers would have 3 attacks. Then reading through this, and looking at point costs, having 4 attacks would make more sense. For terminators, a Daemon hammer is free, where normally a thunder hammer is 30 pts (for other codex's)... and the Falchions is 5 points... So is 1 extra attack (3) worth more than a thunder hammer? Not normally. Then again, why are the Strike Squad Units so cheap. Regular marine, 16 pts, Strike Squad marine, 20 pts. Upgrades:
Storm Bolter - Normally 3 pts
Power Weapon - Normally 15 pts
Force Weapon/Possible instant death - Unknown, but librarians are expensive
Hammerhand - Unknown, but frost blades are normally 25 pts(10 for the +1 strength)..
Warp Quake - Better than Land Speeder Jammer Beacon...
Not overly complaining because at the moment I'm playing the GK, but wow, cheapness. Same with Terms, same price for their upgrades..
Question on Heroic Sacrifice ( pg 26) and Gargantuan Creatures in Apocalypse ( pg 91).
All gargantuan creates are immune to death, and are not affected by any attack that would normally kill a model automatically (like force weapon, attack that kills on failed characteristic test, etc), but instead cause D3 wounds.
If Heroic Sacrifice hits, both models are removed as casualties.
So it's not an instant death, nor auto kill, it's a 'remove', like remove from play but as a casualty. Also wondering, Super-Heavy vehicles? Automatically Appended Next Post: Kreedos wrote:Is cleansing flame always a CC attack for all purposes, or is it a psychic attack that is worded as such to only count towards combat resolution? If so, would cleansing flame deny a squad their invul save that can only be used in CC?
Such as 4+ Witches dodge, or 2+ Nemisis Warding Staves.
ex.
"Unsaved wounds caused by Cleansing Flame are counted as having been caused in close combat for all purposes." pg 31 GK Codex
With the wording above, it states that only when a wound is unsaved (thus having taken an armor save already) then does it become a close combat attack.
Until that point it's a psychic attack that happens before CC happens, only until all saves have been made does it count as a CC attack for purposes of combat resolution. The wording would make the wounds from cleansing flame psychic attacks that happen right before CC but still count for combat resolution.
Thus, denying all CC only invul saves.
Discussion Thread
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/369342.page
It does say 'Unsaved wounds'.. so before they're unsaved, they aren't caused in close combat. At the same time, the fluff may or may not match. Having the dodge ability won't matter if surrounded by flames of death, but a Stave projects a zone of force around its wielder. Then again, an Assassin has a 4+ invul always due to dodging..
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Post by: Tylerkabana
I'm not sure if this has been asked, but what takes precedence? Quiksilver boost to I10, or Daemon Hammer drop to I1
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Post by: AlmightyWalrus
Tylerkabana wrote:I'm not sure if this has been asked, but what takes precedence? Quiksilver boost to I10, or Daemon Hammer drop to I1
Daemon Hammer. It always strikes at I1, regardless of modifiers.
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Post by: The Grog
We know that Might of Titan and Hammerhand stack. Does Might of Titan stack with itself? Same with Hammerhand. Page 25.
Watching what happens when a unit of 10 Death Cult accompanied by a GK Librarian that recasts Might of Titan 3 times was silly.
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Post by: Kreedos
TL Shaggy wrote:Disagree , I don't think for a second that GW will allow Purifers have to have 5 attacks with force weapons ( paired up with hammerhand or MoT) .
For the price at 5 points a model (same as daemonhammer) but only gives 1+ attack? That would never be worth it. Also the fact that the army is an elite army, it's not that unthinkable when you're paying 29 points a model for a Space Marine with a psychic power, power weapons and storm bolter, that they can gain 2+ attacks.
This was answered by a GW rep in a mailed in semi faq already on dakka.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/369078.page
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Post by: nosferatu1001
They gain 2 attacks because that is what the rules actually say.
There is no actual argument against it.
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Post by: AlmightyWalrus
Kreedos wrote:TL Shaggy wrote:Disagree , I don't think for a second that GW will allow Purifers have to have 5 attacks with force weapons ( paired up with hammerhand or MoT) .
For the price at 5 points a model (same as daemonhammer) but only gives 1+ attack? That would never be worth it. Also the fact that the army is an elite army, it's not that unthinkable when you're paying 29 points a model for a Space Marine with a psychic power, power weapons and storm bolter, that they can gain 2+ attacks.
This was answered by a GW rep in a mailed in semi faq already on dakka.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/369078.page
While the answer in the mail is correct, it shouldn't be taken as official information, as customer support mails are notoriously unreliable.
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Post by: MrDrumMachine
Can spore mines that are deepstruck in that "after deployment is set but before any models are deployed" phase destroy servo skulls before they have any impact on things like infiltrators/scouts?
How do you determine who would place first in that grey undefined time of before regular deployment?
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Post by: nosferatu1001
4+ it, same as you do for infiltrators, and yes of course they can be destroyed - the conditions for them being destroyed has been fulfilled
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Post by: Niiai
I play Nids he plays Grey knights: I have a question: If they suffer a psycic misshapp, it resolves as a glancing hit yeah? Does it kick in before or after the fortitude resolves?
I am just wondering as glancing would then suck for the tyranids as he could quite easaly pull of the psycic power and nulefy it.
Could somebody please enlighten me? :-)
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Post by: Pied_Piper11
Niiai wrote:I play Nids he plays Grey knights: I have a question: If they suffer a psycic misshapp, it resolves as a glancing hit yeah? Does it kick in before or after the fortitude resolves?
I am just wondering as glancing would then suck for the tyranids as he could quite easaly pull of the psycic power and nulefy it.
Could somebody please enlighten me? :-)
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/371217.page
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Post by: NecronLord3
Anval Thawn, when resurrected forms a separate unit, doe he still count as a scoring unit?
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Post by: Grey Templar
O come on.
he's still a troops unit that isn't a vehicle.
thats fairly obvious.
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Post by: nosferatu1001
AS GT says -that one is entirely obvious, cleqar and 100% no room for argument
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Post by: NecronLord3
Just making sure as a strategy I'm using for a League game could depend on it.
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Post by: NecronLord3
Anaval Thawn is Fearless but he is not a character that has joined a unit, does his fearless ability confer Fearlessness upon the squad of Terminator's he leads?
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Post by: invisiblade
He comes back alive after he dies, so chances are he's fearless but before he dies he's not.
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Post by: IdentifyZero
If Falchions really do give +2A (Which does seem right), 5 attack purifiers on the charge would be nasty. Librarian quicksilvers them.....
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Post by: nosferatu1001
Yep. And without Crowe, they're not scoring unless you also take a GKGM.....
They really do give 2A. GW would have to explicitly change the rules of the game for them to NOT give +2A.
Not saying that would stop them, of course
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Post by: invisiblade
NecronLord3 wrote:Anaval Thawn is Fearless but he is not a character that has joined a unit, does his fearless ability confer Fearlessness upon the squad of Terminator's he leads?
When he's still with his original unit, the unit is still not fearless as such he is not fearless. However, after he dies and comes back from not yielding, he is no longer with his unit and is then fearless.
Another question though. What if while he's still with his unit they fall off the table due to falling back (unlikely but plausible). Does he come back or not with the yield. Automatically Appended Next Post: I don't remember seeing this on this thread. There's nothing saying that a terminator can't embark in a Chimera is there? So you could load 6 Terminators in a Chimera for cheap transport?
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Post by: Hellstorm
invisiblade wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:
I don't remember seeing this on this thread. There's nothing saying that a terminator can't embark in a Chimera is there? So you could load 6 Terminators in a Chimera for cheap transport?
yes, this exactly right. terminators are not allowed to embark upon a rhino or razorback. it says nothing about chimeras
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Post by: nosferatu1001
He cannot come back on with Yield if his unit falls off the table.
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Post by: FacelessMage
And Terminators can't ride in chimeras.
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Post by: Grey Templar
Where does it say that?
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Post by: AlmightyWalrus
FacelessMage wrote:And Terminators can't ride in chimeras.
...except they can.
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Post by: nosferatu1001
FacelessMage wrote:And Terminators can't ride in chimeras.
Yes they can.
They are infantry, so can embark any vehicle unless specifically prohibited. There is no prohibition given in the chimera nor terminator entry.
If you disagree, page and paragraph please
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Post by: FacelessMage
I looked it up again.
I was wrong.
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Post by: Dok
When can we expect the INAT Grey Knight FAQ to be published? Are there still unsettled issues?
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Post by: yakface
Dok wrote:When can we expect the INAT Grey Knight FAQ to be published? Are there still unsettled issues?
Sorry about the delay folks!
The normal target for an INAT update is about a month and a half after a codex is released. Unfortunately with the Grey Knight codex, there are quite a few really wonky issues (for those who aren't aware), so it was taking a bit longer to get through than normal. Then we got word from a pretty good source that GW's official FAQ should be released within the next few weeks (hopefully!). So rather than spend all the time putting out an update that we'll then have to change again (to remove all the redundant rulings that will be taken care of with GW's FAQ) we figured we'd just hold off and wait until GW releases their FAQ and then we'll just put out the update covering any issues they don't address.
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Post by: Dok
No worries Yak, Grats on your finish this weekend!
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Post by: DarthDiggler
yakface wrote:Dok wrote:When can we expect the INAT Grey Knight FAQ to be published? Are there still unsettled issues?
Sorry about the delay folks!
The normal target for an INAT update is about a month and a half after a codex is released. Unfortunately with the Grey Knight codex, there are quite a few really wonky issues (for those who aren't aware), so it was taking a bit longer to get through than normal. Then we got word from a pretty good source that GW's official FAQ should be released within the next few weeks (hopefully!). So rather than spend all the time putting out an update that we'll then have to change again (to remove all the redundant rulings that will be taken care of with GW's FAQ) we figured we'd just hold off and wait until GW releases their FAQ and then we'll just put out the update covering any issues they don't address.
Is there a deadline in your mind for GW to publish the GK FAQ before you would put the INAT together and publish it? Say a month has gone by with no FAQ would you consider putting together a GK INAT?
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Post by: yakface
DarthDiggler wrote:
Is there a deadline in your mind for GW to publish the GK FAQ before you would put the INAT together and publish it? Say a month has gone by with no FAQ would you consider putting together a GK INAT?
Well, we're already way past when we normally put out the update, but I do have a pretty good indication that the GW FAQ is imminent.
With that said, one way or another we will have the INAT update out in time for WargamesCon, which is July 7th.
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Post by: iproxtaco
Is it weird that I read all of yakface's posts in Sean Connery's voice?
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Post by: Pyriel-
Yes they can.
They are infantry, so can embark any vehicle unless specifically prohibited.
Hmm, can infantry use an ally players transports?
If so can terminators use a falcon/devilfish?
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Post by: Hellstorm
Pyriel- wrote:Yes they can.
They are infantry, so can embark any vehicle unless specifically prohibited.
Hmm, can infantry use an ally players transports?
If so can terminators use a falcon/devilfish?
i'd talk to your TO on that. doubles are a house rule anyways.
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Post by: invisiblade
Hahaha lmao... You're right, it doesn't say that a unit can't embark into an enemy vehicle.. So they could embark in it theoretically. The last FAQ for the BRB only states wargear and such..
So the question is, after you embark on an enemy vehicle, who controls it? The unit may or may not be able to control the vehicle, and whether they can get the crew to do anything by threating them is another issue. Guess they'd have to take a leadership test each turn or something. Great way to hide a VIP you don't want to die, cause you can't shoot at your own units and you can't shoot at units embarked, so all they could do is try to go into dangerous terrain or ram something if it's a tank hoping that it blows.
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Post by: nosferatu1001
It doesnt say they can embark. Given you cannot get within 1", and embarking is movement, youre stuffed.
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Post by: NecronLord3
yakface wrote:DarthDiggler wrote:
Is there a deadline in your mind for GW to publish the GK FAQ before you would put the INAT together and publish it? Say a month has gone by with no FAQ would you consider putting together a GK INAT?
Well, we're already way past when we normally put out the update, but I do have a pretty good indication that the GW FAQ is imminent.
With that said, one way or another we will have the INAT update out in time for WargamesCon, which is July 7th.
I can't wait for GW to post the FAQ. There are a few strategies and units that really are going to depend on FAQ rulings to be viable.
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Post by: Dok
I'm not sure if this is in here or not, but it could probably use a clarification.
What happens when a unit with the brotherhood of psykers rule is charged yb a unit with psyk-out grenades?
Is it an "attack" that would be resolved against on model? Or since the unit counts as a psyker, does it reduce the 'psyker' to I1?
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Post by: nosferatu1001
The unit counts as a psyker, so is entirely reduced to I1
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Post by: AlmightyWalrus
nosferatu1001 wrote:It doesnt say they can embark. Given you cannot get within 1", and embarking is movement, youre stuffed.
You only have to be within 2" to embark though.
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Post by: Dok
nosferatu1001 wrote:The unit counts as a psyker, so is entirely reduced to I1
That's the same argument DoP was using for crucible of malediction. I don't think it's as clear as that.
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Post by: nosferatu1001
When casting powers they are one psyker. THis isnt casting powers.
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Post by: ColdSadHungry
Dok wrote:I'm not sure if this is in here or not, but it could probably use a clarification.
What happens when a unit with the brotherhood of psykers rule is charged yb a unit with psyk-out grenades?
Is it an "attack" that would be resolved against on model? Or since the unit counts as a psyker, does it reduce the 'psyker' to I1?
Page 21 of the Grey Knight Codex - Brotherhood Of Psykers:
"If the Grey Knight unit suffers the Perils of the Warp, or any attack that specifically targets psykers it is resolved against the Justicar or Knight of the Flame (if he is alive) or against a random non character model in the squad if the Justicar or Knight of the Flame is dead."
Despite there being so many holes in this codex, I think that the Brotherhood of Psykers rule is quite clear. The whole unit does count as a psyker but only for using the squad's psychic powers. Anything else and you don't get to say that they are all psykers. So that means no cheap attacks against them using psychic powers and no cheap tactics they can use against their enemies a la the Culexus.
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Post by: nosferatu1001
Psykout grenades are not an attack
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Post by: ColdSadHungry
Well, if someone threw a grenade at me, I'd consider myself to be under attack.
Ok, they are used as part of an assault - are you saying that a unit that is assaulting another unit is not attacking it?
I think that this is a case of getting hung up on a technicality. The Justicar or Knight of the Flame would be affected in my opinion. You've posted 11,000 times more than me so probably have more experience and therefore a better inkling of which way a FAQ may rule but this is just what I believe.
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Post by: nosferatu1001
Except in 40k "Attack" is a well defined term - it refers to hitting people in close combat.
Psykout grenades modify an assault, they do not constitute an attack in and of themselves.
Also, having lots of posts means nothing when it comes to guessing GWs seemingly random FAQs, trust me!
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Post by: ColdSadHungry
Well, the codex does say 'any attack that specifically targets psykers'.
Can you only target them in CC? If there is even one move in the whole game that targets psykers from range, then I don't think that the codex author was referring to the definition of attack that you are referring to.
Also, if you look at page 45 of the GK codex - Coteaz's entry under his 'I've been expecting you' - the blurb there states, 'If an enemy unit arrives from reserve within 12" of Coteaz and within his line of sight, Coteaz and his unit can immediately make an out of sequence shooting attack against it'.
So, as you can see, 'attack' doesn't have to be in close combat.
OOOPS, sorry I seem to have veered into a rules debate here :( Mods feel free to delete
11373
Post by: jeffersonian000
This is one of the reasons I'm still inclined to keep Daemonhammers on my Justicars - they'd still be going a I1 regardless.
At my venue, we have had a number of GK on GK match ups, with the BoP rules used for resolving the Pschout on Psychout assault.
SJ
23433
Post by: schadenfreude
Psychout grenades on GK units are IMO a low priority FAQ, and I could see it going either way. I only call it a low priority FAQ because it only happens when GK fight GK so it's not like a ruling either way has any potential to make the GK codex better or worse.
41293
Post by: Pied_Piper11
Both the Rulebook and GreyKnight FAQ's are up.
60
Post by: yakface
Pied_Piper11 wrote:Both the Rulebook and GreyKnight FAQ's are up.
Indeed! Time to get to work putting out the INAT FAQ covering the issues that GW didn't get to this time around!
40261
Post by: Hellstorm
Pied_Piper11 wrote:Both the Rulebook and GreyKnight FAQ's are up.
wow grey knights got a MAJOR nerf. that sucks.
11254
Post by: veritechc
Hellstorm wrote:Pied_Piper11 wrote:Both the Rulebook and GreyKnight FAQ's are up.
wow grey knights got a MAJOR nerf. that sucks.
I read through the FAQ's and didn't see any major nerf. What are you speaking to specifically?
The only thing I say that gave me minimal pause was the fact that the Nemesis Falchions give just one attack. Seems like a expensive upgrade for that.
All the other statements clairifed how the army works. My strategy wasn't effected at all.
23395
Post by: Gavo
Wish they did the Vindicare's Turbo Penetrator round, though.
11254
Post by: veritechc
Gavo wrote:Wish they did the Vindicare's Turbo Penetrator round, though.
They did. It's in the rulebook FAQ:
Q: How does Rending work if you get to roll multiple dice for the Armour Penetration roll? (p31)
A: The player gets to add a D3 to the total for each dice that comes up with a 6.
32388
Post by: Dok
I am fairly unsatisfied with it. The dreadknight CCW not doubling it's strength was a major disappointment. It makes sense with the rest of the models stats that it doesn't... but it is very expensive to not have str 10.
I don't like that they didn't address the vindicaire shots vs monoliths and wave serpents.
I don't like that they didn't clarify cleansing flame vs wyches.
I don't like that they ruled dreadnoughts to be scoring, but that opens up the cheese that is grand master x 2 plus msu strikes and as many dreads as you can fit as a more prevalent list type.
The falchion thing is whatever to me. I wasn't using them before, I probably wouldn't have used them if they ruled +2 attacks. Halberds are cheaper and better for what I need them for.
All in all, I'm glad some of those questions were answered so that we can move forward and build lists appropriately.
34456
Post by: ColdSadHungry
OK, INAT guys! You're still needed to rule on the Vindicare - is the Turbo penetrator 4D6 or do you get 4D6 plus 3 STR?
Edit: I see that the Vindicare issue has already been raised
They also didn't clarify the issues surrounding how many psykers a unit of Grey Knights counts as for things like psyk out grenades, the culexus etc etc
42053
Post by: Sothas
Don't forget the Cleansing flame issue. When exactly does it take place, in or out of CC? Do wyche saves work against it? Does NF Staff work against it? Are cover saves allowed? (if both previous questions are a no) There's a huge post on this, and I have my own thoughts, but this needs to be answered. Also what happens to a squad when it is in the range of a Crucible of Malediction? Does the Justicar die? Does the squad die?
34456
Post by: ColdSadHungry
Sothas wrote:Don't forget the Cleansing flame issue. When exactly does it take place, in or out of CC?
Do wyche saves work against it?
Does NF Staff work against it?
Are cover saves allowed? (if both previous questions are a no)
There's a huge post on this, and I have my own thoughts, but this needs to be answered.
Also what happens to a squad when it is in the range of a Crucible of Malediction?
Does the Justicar die?
Does the squad die?
Crucible of malediction: any attack that specifically targets psykers is resolved against the Justicar or Knight of the Flame. So, the unit isn't affected. Just their leader.
31962
Post by: lucasbuffalo
Dok wrote:I am fairly unsatisfied with it. The dreadknight CCW not doubling it's strength was a major disappointment. It makes sense with the rest of the models stats that it doesn't... but it is very expensive to not have str 10.
Take the Daemonhammer as the Init. value of the Dreadknight isn't reduced that way IIRC :3.
36694
Post by: invisiblade
For all the questions out there, seems kinda short. But then again maybe they don't know the answers to some of the questions. 4 points gives you cleansing flame and 2 CC attacks, is the value high enough that it ignores CC Invuls or is it cheap enough to give CC Invuls. Now that falchions give them 1+ attack at the same cost of a hammer or more expensive, then I would say that the 4 pts for the extra CC attack and flame means that the CC Invuls do work.
Course, there are other major things around points. Storm bolter is normally 3 pts, power weapons 15 points, and you get both along with warp quake and a possible instant death attack for 4 pts (strike vs tactical squads). So who knows.
11373
Post by: jeffersonian000
The only big mistake I noted in the GK FAQ is how Halberds lose their Initiative bonus if the model is reduced to I1 by an ability. This is directly opposite their previous ruling in 'Nid FAQ.
SJ
20243
Post by: Grey Templar
yeah, that made absolutly no sense.
and being in complete conflict with the Nid FAQ really makes it wierd.
How bout how the Plasma Siphon basically effects every freakin Tau weapon
drive a Ordo Xeno Inquisitor up in a Chimera to the middle of the Tau army. the Chimera suddenly becomes almost untouchable
40261
Post by: Hellstorm
Grey Templar wrote:yeah, that made absolutly no sense.
and being in complete conflict with the Nid FAQ really makes it wierd.
How bout how the Plasma Siphon basically effects every freakin Tau weapon
drive a Ordo Xeno Inquisitor up in a Chimera to the middle of the Tau army. the Chimera suddenly becomes almost untouchable 
except railguns aren't on that list so it still might die.
27911
Post by: ryanstartalker
Hellstorm wrote:Grey Templar wrote:yeah, that made absolutly no sense.
and being in complete conflict with the Nid FAQ really makes it wierd.
How bout how the Plasma Siphon basically effects every freakin Tau weapon
drive a Ordo Xeno Inquisitor up in a Chimera to the middle of the Tau army. the Chimera suddenly becomes almost untouchable 
except railguns aren't on that list so it still might die.
And don't forget Missile Pod, Kroot rifles and stuff.
27911
Post by: ryanstartalker
And this makes CSM players grimace too... And think twice when you are taking Daemonic Possession upgrade.
1
60
Post by: yakface
Uh, guys, this is not the thread to discuss GW's FAQ release.
If you have new questions stemming from GW's FAQ, then those are fine to post, but please cut the commentary out of this thread!
Thanks.
15111
Post by: MrDrumMachine
I'm not sure if this has been covered but what happens to a unit coming out of a drop pod where pod itself is outside of warp quake, but the unit inside is still within warp quake?
If they take the mishap and are placed back in reserve, how do they come back on the table?
18123
Post by: Corbett
BuFFo wrote:Can a Crucible of Malediction from the Dark Eldar Arcane Wargear affect Grey Knight Vehicles? If the answer is yes, what is the out come? Will the vehicle get removed from the game without a LD test due to not having a LD, or can the Vehicle use it's LD of 10 for very specific psychic purposes for the Malediction as well? Also, if the Vehicle is removed from play, what happens to the unit inside?
Can a Dreadknight use it's Personal Teleporter to move 30" during the Scouting "phase" of the deployment "phase"?
I have my own opinions on these subjects, but I am keeping them out for now. I am just posting the general questions I see around the net.
I asked the GW hotline this question and they told me the vehicle can be affected but takes that test at a unmodifed LD 10. IF there is a squad inside it is removed from play along with the vehicle.
32388
Post by: Dok
Maybe a new thread can be started for this since the FAQ is out? Or just prune this one for irrelevant posts...
15717
Post by: Backfire
ryanstartalker wrote:
And don't forget Missile Pod, Kroot rifles and stuff.
So here's the question: are Kroot rifles and Kroot guns "plasma weapons" too? Because the description kinda says that they use pulse round, just like Pulse Weapons...which are listed as "plasma weapons"...
25208
Post by: AlmightyWalrus
Corbett wrote:BuFFo wrote:Can a Crucible of Malediction from the Dark Eldar Arcane Wargear affect Grey Knight Vehicles? If the answer is yes, what is the out come? Will the vehicle get removed from the game without a LD test due to not having a LD, or can the Vehicle use it's LD of 10 for very specific psychic purposes for the Malediction as well? Also, if the Vehicle is removed from play, what happens to the unit inside?
Can a Dreadknight use it's Personal Teleporter to move 30" during the Scouting "phase" of the deployment "phase"?
I have my own opinions on these subjects, but I am keeping them out for now. I am just posting the general questions I see around the net.
I asked the GW hotline this question and they told me the vehicle can be affected but takes that test at a unmodifed LD 10. IF there is a squad inside it is removed from play along with the vehicle.
The GW hotline is notoriously unreliable with regards to rules questions.
19754
Post by: puma713
Yak, is the original sticky INAT thread still being checked?
Either way, this question is not for Grey Knights alone, but for Defensive Grenades in general. I'm posting it here, because I'm not sure if the sticky thread is still the place for general questions.
Anyway:
In light of the new ruling on grenades in the GK FAQ:
Games Workshop wrote:Q: Does the entire unit need to be equipped with rad,
psyk-out and/or psychotroke grenades for their effects
to work or is just one model being equiped with them
enough? (p60)
A: One model in a unit is enough.
If one model in a unit ( IC) has defensive grenades, does the whole unit benefit? Ongoing conversation here.
And poll here.
11268
Post by: nosferatu1001
Defensive grenades work on a per model attacking the unit basis, whereas rad, psykout and psychostroke grenades work on a per unit attacking the grenade holding unit basis.
Very different.
15717
Post by: Backfire
nosferatu1001 wrote:Defensive grenades work on a per model attacking the unit basis, whereas rad, psykout and psychostroke grenades work on a per unit attacking the grenade holding unit basis.
Very different.
This is something which has been never really clarified, because you can have units where most of the models have defensive grenades, but some don't...do they work then??
11268
Post by: nosferatu1001
This was questioned in another thread, have a gander at it
19754
Post by: puma713
Can Castellan Crowe be the subject of Grand Strategy?
Ongoing conversation here.
11268
Post by: nosferatu1001
Yes; he is not an IC nor Mordraks Ghost Knights.
No need for a discussion. You can make an assassin scoring / scout etc if you wanted.
11373
Post by: jeffersonian000
Mordrak and his Ghost Knights are excluded by name from Grand Strategy, per the rules for Grand Strategy. Crowe, however, may be a valid unit to receive it as he is neither excluded by name nor an IC.
SJ
20243
Post by: Grey Templar
Backfire wrote:ryanstartalker wrote:
And don't forget Missile Pod, Kroot rifles and stuff.
So here's the question: are Kroot rifles and Kroot guns "plasma weapons" too? Because the description kinda says that they use pulse round, just like Pulse Weapons...which are listed as "plasma weapons"...
they would indeed be effected.
60
Post by: yakface
puma713 wrote:Yak, is the original sticky INAT thread still being checked?
Absolutely it is.
6251
Post by: NecronLord3
So is the INAT Faq update happening soon? There are still some issues that need clarity.
60
Post by: yakface
NecronLord3 wrote:So is the INAT Faq update happening soon? There are still some issues that need clarity.
Yes sir it is!
Check the INAT FAQ link out at the top of the page, the new update is out!
40261
Post by: Hellstorm
one question that wasn't mentioned that i would like clarified; do teleport homers only work with certain types of deep strike or does it work with all types? if it is certain types what exactly does it work with?
11268
Post by: nosferatu1001
It works with exactly what it states it works with in the rules for teleport homers. they couldnt spell it out much clearer than that.
41293
Post by: Pied_Piper11
I see a problem between Grey Knights and Blood Angels rulings. GK.37C.05 and BA.38D.05.
Blood Angels
◊BA.38D.05 – Q: What happens to an embarked
Dreadnought that suffers an ‘immobilized’ result
from the S4 hit when it’s Stormraven ‘explodes’?
A: The Dreadnought is first placed on the table and only
then counts as being ‘immobilized’ [clarification].
Grey Knights
◊GK.37C.05 – Q: What happens to an embarked
Dreadnought that suffers an ‘immobilized’ result
from the S4 hit when it’s Stormraven ‘Explodes’?
A: It will be unable to disembark and is therefore removed
from play and counts as destroyed [clarification].
So which one is correct?
60
Post by: yakface
Pied_Piper11 wrote:I see a problem between Grey Knights and Blood Angels rulings. GK.37C.05 and BA.38D.05.
Blood Angels
◊BA.38D.05 – Q: What happens to an embarked
Dreadnought that suffers an ‘immobilized’ result
from the S4 hit when it’s Stormraven ‘explodes’?
A: The Dreadnought is first placed on the table and only
then counts as being ‘immobilized’ [clarification].
Grey Knights
◊GK.37C.05 – Q: What happens to an embarked
Dreadnought that suffers an ‘immobilized’ result
from the S4 hit when it’s Stormraven ‘Explodes’?
A: It will be unable to disembark and is therefore removed
from play and counts as destroyed [clarification].
So which one is correct?
Curses! That's my bad. The Blood Angels ruling is the one that was voted on. The Grey Knights ruling was the 'temp' version that should have been replaced.
I'll have to get a revised v5.0.1 out to fix that.
Thanks for spotting that.
29655
Post by: Evil Lamp 6
Just a question and probably not an error, but why the difference between the WH.16E.01 and WH.21I.01 rulings concerning GK Psychic powers?
◊WH.16E.01 – Q: The Penitent allows an
Inquisitorial retinue to nullify psychic abilities they
are in the ‘area of effect’ of. What exactly is meant
by this?
A: If the unit is targeted or directly affected by any of the
following psychic powers they may attempt to nullify them:
General: A Force Weapon’s ‘Instant Death’ ability.
Blood Angels: Blood Boil, Blood Lance, Fear of the Darkness,
Shackle Soul, Smite.
Chaos Space Marines: Bolt of Change, Doombolt, Gift of
Chaos, Lash of Submission, Nurgle’s Rot, Wind of Chaos.
Dark Angels: Hellfire, Mind Worm.
Eldar: Destructor, Doom, Eldritch Storm, Mind War.
Grey Knights: Cleansing Flame, Heroic Sacrifice, Holocaust, a
Nemesis Force Weapon’s ‘Instant Death’ ability, Psychic
Barrage, Sanctified Flame, Sanctuary, Smite, Vortex of Doom,
Warp Quake, Warp Rift, Zone of Banishment.
Imperial Guard: Lightning Arc, Soulstorm, Weaken Resolve.
Orks: Frazzle, Zogwort’s Curse, Zzap.
Space Marines: The Avenger, Machine Curse, Null Zone,
Smite, Vortex of Doom.
Space Wolves: Fury of the Wolf Spirits, Jaws of the World
Wolf, Living Lightning, Murderous Hurricane, Tempest’s Wrath,
Thunderclap.
Tyranids: Aura of Despair, Cataclysm, The Horror, Hypnotic
Gaze, Leech Essence, Paroxysm, Psychic Scream, Warp Blast,
Warp Lance.
Witch Hunters: Divine Pronouncement, Hammer of the
Witches, Purgatus, Scourging.
[clarification].
Ref: BT.25A.02, CSM.48C.01, DE.53B.01, GK.21G.02, GK.57I.01, SW.62M.02, WH.18.01B, WH.21I.01
And
WH.21I.01 – Q: Hexagrammic Wards affect enemy
psykers within 24” that ‘attempt to use any psychic
powers that would affect the Inquisitor or his
retinue’. What exactly is meant by this?
A: The penalty is applied if the Inquisitor or his retinue
would be affected by any of the following powers:
General: A Force Weapon’s ‘Instant Death’ ability*.
Blood Angels: Blood Boil*, Blood Lance, Fear of the
Darkness, Shackle Soul, Smite.
Chaos Space Marines: Bolt of Change, Doombolt, Gift of
Chaos*, Lash of Submission, Nurgle’s Rot, Wind of Chaos.
Dark Angels: Hellfire, Mind Worm*.
Eldar: Doom, Eldritch Storm, Mind War*.
Grey Knights: Cleansing Flame, Heroic Sacrifice*, Holocaust,
Psychic Barrage, Sanctified Flame, Smite, Vortex of Doom,
Warp Rift, Zone of Banishment*.
Imperial Guard: Lightning Arc, Soulstorm, Weaken Resolve.
Orks: Frazzle, Zogwort’s Curse*, Zzap.
Space Marines: Avenger, Machine Curse, Smite, Vortex of
Doom.
Space Wolves: Fury of the Wolf Spirits, Jaws of the World
Wolf*, Living Lightning, Murderous Hurricane, Thunderclap.
Tyranids: Cataclysm, The Horror, Hypnotic Gaze*, Leech
Essence, Paroxysm, Psychic Scream, Warp Blast, Warp Lance.
Witch Hunters: Divine Pronouncement, Hammer of the
Witches*, Purgatus*, Scourging.
* Powers marked with an asterisk (*) affect specific models within
a unit and are therefore not subject to ‘Hexagrammic Wards’ unless
the Inquisitor or a model in his retinue would be directly affected by
it [clarification].
Ref: BT.25A.02, CSM.48C.01, DE.53B.01, GK.21G.02, GK.57I.01, SW.62M.02, WH.16E.01, WH.18.01B
60
Post by: yakface
Evil Lamp 6 wrote:Just a question and probably not an error, but why the difference between the WH.16E.01 and WH.21I.01 rulings concerning GK Psychic powers?
◊WH.16E.01 – Q: The Penitent allows an
Inquisitorial retinue to nullify psychic abilities they
are in the ‘area of effect’ of. What exactly is meant
by this?
A: If the unit is targeted or directly affected by any of the
following psychic powers they may attempt to nullify them:
General: A Force Weapon’s ‘Instant Death’ ability.
Blood Angels: Blood Boil, Blood Lance, Fear of the Darkness,
Shackle Soul, Smite.
Chaos Space Marines: Bolt of Change, Doombolt, Gift of
Chaos, Lash of Submission, Nurgle’s Rot, Wind of Chaos.
Dark Angels: Hellfire, Mind Worm.
Eldar: Destructor, Doom, Eldritch Storm, Mind War.
Grey Knights: Cleansing Flame, Heroic Sacrifice, Holocaust, a
Nemesis Force Weapon’s ‘Instant Death’ ability, Psychic
Barrage, Sanctified Flame, Sanctuary, Smite, Vortex of Doom,
Warp Quake, Warp Rift, Zone of Banishment.
Imperial Guard: Lightning Arc, Soulstorm, Weaken Resolve.
Orks: Frazzle, Zogwort’s Curse, Zzap.
Space Marines: The Avenger, Machine Curse, Null Zone,
Smite, Vortex of Doom.
Space Wolves: Fury of the Wolf Spirits, Jaws of the World
Wolf, Living Lightning, Murderous Hurricane, Tempest’s Wrath,
Thunderclap.
Tyranids: Aura of Despair, Cataclysm, The Horror, Hypnotic
Gaze, Leech Essence, Paroxysm, Psychic Scream, Warp Blast,
Warp Lance.
Witch Hunters: Divine Pronouncement, Hammer of the
Witches, Purgatus, Scourging.
[clarification].
Ref: BT.25A.02, CSM.48C.01, DE.53B.01, GK.21G.02, GK.57I.01, SW.62M.02, WH.18.01B, WH.21I.01
And
WH.21I.01 – Q: Hexagrammic Wards affect enemy
psykers within 24” that ‘attempt to use any psychic
powers that would affect the Inquisitor or his
retinue’. What exactly is meant by this?
A: The penalty is applied if the Inquisitor or his retinue
would be affected by any of the following powers:
General: A Force Weapon’s ‘Instant Death’ ability*.
Blood Angels: Blood Boil*, Blood Lance, Fear of the
Darkness, Shackle Soul, Smite.
Chaos Space Marines: Bolt of Change, Doombolt, Gift of
Chaos*, Lash of Submission, Nurgle’s Rot, Wind of Chaos.
Dark Angels: Hellfire, Mind Worm*.
Eldar: Doom, Eldritch Storm, Mind War*.
Grey Knights: Cleansing Flame, Heroic Sacrifice*, Holocaust,
Psychic Barrage, Sanctified Flame, Smite, Vortex of Doom,
Warp Rift, Zone of Banishment*.
Imperial Guard: Lightning Arc, Soulstorm, Weaken Resolve.
Orks: Frazzle, Zogwort’s Curse*, Zzap.
Space Marines: Avenger, Machine Curse, Smite, Vortex of
Doom.
Space Wolves: Fury of the Wolf Spirits, Jaws of the World
Wolf*, Living Lightning, Murderous Hurricane, Thunderclap.
Tyranids: Cataclysm, The Horror, Hypnotic Gaze*, Leech
Essence, Paroxysm, Psychic Scream, Warp Blast, Warp Lance.
Witch Hunters: Divine Pronouncement, Hammer of the
Witches*, Purgatus*, Scourging.
* Powers marked with an asterisk (*) affect specific models within
a unit and are therefore not subject to ‘Hexagrammic Wards’ unless
the Inquisitor or a model in his retinue would be directly affected by
it [clarification].
Ref: BT.25A.02, CSM.48C.01, DE.53B.01, GK.21G.02, GK.57I.01, SW.62M.02, WH.16E.01, WH.18.01B
The difference is actually intentional in this case.
Because Hexagrammic Wards technically only works against powers that affect the unit, but when the psychic test is passed for Nemesis Force Weapons, the power is merely affecting the unit with the Nemesis Weapons (making them have the Instant Death ability).
In the case of the Penitent (or any other ability that allows a power to be nullified when it is affected by the unit), when the unit would actually be subject to instant death from a Nemesis Force Weapon is when they are affected by the power and would then get a chance to nullify the power.
Its the same reason that we ruled 'The Aegis' does not work against the Nemesis Force Weapon ability either.
But really regardless, I'm sure it will all be changing in the new Sisters White Dwarf codex soon, so even if we got it 'wrong' it will likely be moot very soon!
29655
Post by: Evil Lamp 6
Ok yakface but what about Sanctuary & Warp Quake?
60
Post by: yakface
Evil Lamp 6 wrote:Ok yakface but what about Sanctuary & Warp Quake?
Its the same exact principle. Sanctuary & Warp Quake are cast at the beginning of the Assault/Movement phase and at the time they're cast no unit is affected by them, so therefore there's no way for Hexagrammic Wards to apply its -1 Ld penalty to the psychic tests for these powers. It isn't until a unit moves within range of sanctuary or Deep Strikes within range of Warp Quake that it gets affected by them and by that point the psychic test is long since taken.
But in the case of the Penitent (or any other ability that allows a unit to nullify a power they are affected by) it works just fine...when they actually move in the assault phase and would be affected by Sanctuary or Deep Strike and get affected by Warp Quake at that point you'd get to test to see if the power is nullified...hence the difference between the two rulings.
11373
Post by: jeffersonian000
INAT FAQ5.0 wrote:◊GK.21C.01 – Q: Are Grey Knight vehicles affected
by Ld modifiers and/or special rules that reduce or
replace Ld values (like a Necron Pariah’s ‘Soulless’
special rule) when taking a psychic test or utilizing a
Psychic Hood?
A: Yes to all [clarification].
Why? Grey Knight vehicles do not have a LD stat, and are only treated as LD10 for two specific tests. How would a LD effecting ability change a non-existant stat?
SJ
20650
Post by: Pyriel-
So as I understand it a librarian with jumppack that chooses to deepstrike near a GK strike squad that used/uses warp quake cannon hood the warp quake as it has already been cast before the deepstriking librarian arrives?
32388
Post by: Dok
Warp quake is cast on the Grey Knights turn.
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