Hi all, sorry but no update today as the Prodos team members are away, we are at UK Games Expo with Warzone in Birmingham tomorrow at Titan Games stand.
Please expect an update Sunday.
Prodos Games Ltd 1 minute ago
regarding 3d terrain we will have something to show on Sunday, but if you have already closed your PM you can still get it @ KS prices later (via our Prodos Games shop - shop.prodosgames.com.)
Automatically Appended Next Post: Update just popped up !!
Project Update #55: This is rumour control, Here are the facts...
Posted by Prodos Games Ltd ♥ Like
Hi all, sorry for short update but the Prodos team is away at UK Game Expo in Birmingham. Another update with more info this Sunday.
Reminder - Any issues with the pledge manager please direct to michal.pawlaczyk@prodos.co.uk, please give us 24h to replay. Please do not PM via KS with PM queries, Thanks.
1. "KS pledge manager link reminder mail" - if you've recently received this mail with PM activation link, but you've already closed you pledge manager, then there is no action to be taken, please ignore the email/link.
2. "3d terrain" we will have something to show on Sunday, but if you've already closed your PM, you will still have a chance to get it in future - we will make it available at the Kickstarter prices for bakers via our Prodos' shop www.shop.prodosgames.com.
3. Young Bloods and Sergeant - pic on Sunday - same here it will be available for backers @ KS prices at our shop later.
4. There's still 150 backers to close their PM, we will keep it opened until Saturday Midnight UK time.
5. Progress update on Sunday.
Regards
Prodos Games Admin
Reminder - Any issues with the pledge manager please direct to michal.pawlaczyk@prodos.co.uk, please give us 24h to replay. Please do not PM via KS with PM queries, Thanks.
For those of you having trouble logging into the pledge manager:
I had a lot of trouble on my Android, but it works fine (apart from one thing) on my laptop.
Laptop is running Windows 7 and I'm using Chrome.
The only issue I have had thus far is that when using laptop/Chrome is that in order to log in, I have to actually click the "Login" button, rather than entering my details in the fields and hitting the enter key.
H.B.M.C. wrote: It won't accept my password, and I have no idea what I'm doing wrong. I've E-mailed that guy.
I have the same problem - which is kind of concerning as I had what I had entered written down!
Yes, after I was locked out for the second time I also wrote my third password down, it doesn't work!
Oh for feths sake, new password still doesn't work. This is a fething joke!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, duh me, the trick was to login during a thunderstorm, after 8:30 pm, whilst repeating the words "feth you, piece of gak!".
Guys - managed to log in. Try changing the case of your email and/or password. I had a capital letter for the beginning of my email address, changed it to lower case and it worked(!)
Something worth mentioning at this point is that Prodos' forums are also terrible with logging in. Whoever takes care of this stuff for them is... not so great, apparently.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hi there, another Quick update, this time about Pledge Manager:
Hi guys, another quick update, sorry we've just came back from UK Games Expo, anyway as promised the Young Bloods in 3D form and the Sergeant sprue.
We'll make Young Bloods . Sergeant and resin terrain available post KS at our Shop @ KS prices for backers.
Resin terrain- 3d tomorrow (or with next update on Wednesday).
Also:
1. Delivery - we are waiting for Prototype board game for final approval. I think we should have some pictures Monday/Tuesday (the Proto). More about delivery in next update ( mid week).
2. Thanks for visiting us at UK Games Expo this weekend !!
Models are fully custom-able (heads, arms, torso, legs as separate pieces)
Absolutely bloody fantastic (said already in the Prodos News thread, but bears repeating! )
Wondering if it will be possible to re-create that scene in the first book/comic, where the elder Predator gets taken out in an accident, leaving the young bloods to run amok on their own and start fighting the aliens that have nested in the ranching settlement.
And, why oh why did they not make a Machiko miniature, my only regret from this KS
Spoiler:
Now going to read those books and comics again for the build up for this release!
Aaron Schoenke caught this footage at WonderCon in Anaheim in April. While covering the convention for his company, Bat in the Sun Productions, Schoenke came across this youngster wearing an incredibly detailed Predator outfit. With a bit of prompting, the little guy happily shows off his costume as everybody else just feels jealous. Credit: YouTube/batinthesun
Pacific wrote: Absolutely bloody fantastic (said already in the Prodos News thread, but bears repeating! )
Wondering if it will be possible to re-create that scene in the first book/comic, where the elder Predator gets taken out in an accident, leaving the young bloods to run amok on their own and start fighting the aliens that have nested in the ranching settlement.
And, why oh why did they not make a Machiko miniature, my only regret from this KS
Spoiler:
Now going to read those books and comics again for the build up for this release!
It is a shame
Hopefully we'll get a machiko mini in the future my only worry is that the warzone lady's I've seen thus far haven't been the best facially
Hi there guys, it's Friday, so time for another "late" AvP Update.
We would like to begin this update with a moment of respect to all of those brave men who fought for freedom during the Normandy landings, 70 years ago on the 6th of June 1944. We will remember them.
Moving on to the much awaited update, following up from the mash up of Updates last weekend. We promised 3D scenery, but it took longer than expected, these prototypes are getting printed in China right now. We have chosen to get them printed in China as our printer simply cannot handle such large pieces! The scenery was slightly redesigned due to the rules for the AvP Boardgame taking a new direction.
Our second point is about delivery. We received a lot of queries about this at UK Games Expo last weekend, so we want to echo what we told people there.
The Boxed Game prototype has not yet arrived from the printers. We have been assured they have made their cutting tool specifically for our box and started the printing process. We expect to have the prototypes within a week and then it will take 2-3 weeks to approve in the UK and USA offices of 20th Century Fox.
We actually have had to print the box twice as thick as we originally intended because of the sheer amount of stuff it contains!
As soon as this is all approved, we will gradually begin shipping. We will keep you updated.
In addition, we would like to show you how manufacturing is going. We have lots of stock just waiting for the printed material to be approved, as soon as it is we can begin shipping.
Boxed 50000 of AvP goodness.
and tons of spare moulds for AvP just in case.
We will not be shipping in multiple waves, a decision made based on the experiences from our Warzone Resurrection Kickstarter which revealed the huge cost implication involved.
We have also had a lot of requests for the rules for AvP, both the Board Game and Wargame rules. Unfortunately we cannot reveal the rules as they are part of the license (Written contend to be only revealed on release day :( :() Thanks for understanding .
Alex C wrote: Seems I can look forward to lots of broken parts and the subsequent long wait for replacements if that's the extent of their packaging...
Their resin is a bit bendy, it's not soft per se, but definitely not brittle. Actually it's quite nice and picks up detail very well (I got a warzone figure just to try it out). I am not worried about breakage - I just hope they have good QC in place so I don't get any duds
Yeah, I've been lucky enough to see and touch the figures for real (at Salute in April). They are not brittle, instead there is some flexibility to them but they are lovely quality and I think they will paint up well... So no worries about those boxes full of goodies... My only worry would be the vast quantity and the QC process Prodos have in place...
I will say that I'm not blown away by the 3d terrain and not sad that I didn't buy any.
Alex C wrote: Seems I can look forward to lots of broken parts and the subsequent long wait for replacements if that's the extent of their packaging...
I had $600 in Warzone minis shipped across the Atlantic in a toner case full of plastic baggies. Not a single thing was broken or damaged. This was from the batch of minis where they were still figuring out things like sword thickness and the like and what the material could bear. Mine arrived in perfect condition. Hell the only thing missing out of it was a single shoulder pad.
I wouldn't worry too much about the state it will arrive in unless someone decides to boot your parcel. But then I doubt any kind of packaging would help that.
Ruglud wrote: My only worry would be the vast quantity and the QC process Prodos have in place...
Their QC is pretty bad, even for their newer Warzone stuff. I bought 2 starter boxes at Salute, including the brand new Imperial box, and every single model was miscast in some way. Nothing significant enough to junk the whole model but it required a lot of time with a modelling knife. Mould slippage seems to be their main issue and their mould lines are on some unfortunately prominent surfaces (I also had a nasty airbubble in the superstructure of my Greyhound).
Its possible that these were just teething troubles but......
cincydooley wrote: Is this pledge manager still open? Pings of regret are shooting through me.
It should have closed on the 31st of May not sure if they locked it then or if it's still open for anyone who didn't lock in in time but most likely it's to late now.
Hi there guys.
So the AvP prototype Board Game is still in transit, we are waiting for our copy and also waiting for the copy to be sent to 20th Century Fox. Once it is approved, we can start moving from there.
Couple of sneaky peeks
(BOX render .... )
New cards layout:
We also have exciting news that a limited number of AvP products will be available on our website for Pre-Order in 2 weeks time. Tell your friends who didn't get involved! Naturally, we will be posting everywhere we can about this!
We have begun processing your pledges and we have discovered a number of addresses have been entered wrong, last time we checked, Blackburn, Lancashire was not in Afghanistan...
Please check your addresses as we will struggle to ship them otherwise! Equally, names! Check your names! We have had an instance where one pledger has suggested that a particular fruit is their full name. This might be correct, but we just want to double check.
Here is how you go about checking and altering your Pledger details:
Thinking in terms of paint-schemes/set ups for this miniature game, and of course to start getting hyped up about this release!
Nothing to do with the video game, think it was first published back in the 90's and I think re-published recently (perhaps following Prometheus or the CM video game).
Thinking in terms of paint-schemes/set ups for this miniature game, and of course to start getting hyped up about this release!
Nothing to do with the video game, think it was first published back in the 90's and I think re-published recently (perhaps following Prometheus or the CM video game).
I think it's a great book personally. I go NUTS for these kinds of books though so I might not be the most unbiased person to ask
Thinking in terms of paint-schemes/set ups for this miniature game, and of course to start getting hyped up about this release!
Nothing to do with the video game, think it was first published back in the 90's and I think re-published recently (perhaps following Prometheus or the CM video game).
It is extremely good quality. I doubt you'll find many color schemes, but you'll definitely find inspiration. Tis is one of the best "technical manual" tie-ins I've ever read.
Technical manual ordered, looking forward to getting it. Thanks for the recommendations guys.
Latest update
Project Update #60
Hi all,
News of the week: the board game content is now being reviewed for approval! Once it is all cleared, with legal markings and corrections put into place, we will give the green light to the printing company. We have to manufacture just over 2150 board games, which should take around 2-3 weeks.
Free Wargaming rules are currently in process with the graphics company and we will share them with glee once are they are ready.
Some of the painted models you will see in the Rulebook, soon:
We are incredibly pleased with them and excited to see what you guys think! Shipping: we have a number of customers still without real names (they are only using KS nicknames in the main) or wrong/missing addresses, one of our Admin team members is contacting each person individually, however it is a time consuming process and it will cause an additional delay, thus, if your order number is on the list below please log in to the pledge manager and check your data:
Well, excited to know what we think? Well, fething fantastic, that's what!
Wish I had put a couple of those sentry guns in my order now actually, remember thinking at the time I would just cut some old autocannons or something to use, but the finished articles actually look quite cool.
Guessing that's the daddy predator as well? Again, looks very cool, looking forward to seeing some more close-ups.
He's not a normal predator .. he is the Alpha that was introduced with the movie Predators (and a fair bit bigger than the standard Arnie-fighting version!)
Some of you might have seen this already but if you passed on the AvP resin terrain set, two of the M-Class Starfrieghter sets might make a good substitute:
Would make a good representation of the colony for LV-426, can imagine re-creating some of the scenes with the marines trying to escape through the tunnels being chased by aliens!
Slightly off topic, but does anyone know where you can find interior floor plans for Hadley's Hope? With the models coming semi soon I wanted to get building on the colony but can't seem to find a full layout.
having those 'colony' tiles could help make this easier on me.
Very cool.. the last pictures in that thread look like something like Sarissa or Warmill buildings would be ideal for.
That sounds immensely cool Duce, please let us know if you start a project/p&M thread!
EDIT - as another thought, you could try playing the Aliens Vs. Predator (later console one) or Colonial Marines video games? I believe I read somewhere that some of the designs were based on parts of the movie - might be useful for some ideas.
Siygess wrote: Some of you might have seen this already but if you passed on the AvP resin terrain set, two of the M-Class Starfrieghter sets might make a good substitute:
Hi - That's my Kickstarter I was planning on doing an AVP specific offering. As a heavy backer to this one myself and huge fan of those franchises how could I not? But I haven't been able to get any information on the map components...from one of the older updates they posted some tiles were red and some weren't - not sure if that is something that needs to be designed for or not, I think *think* that all the straight corridors are three squares long but that's just a guess on my part.
If anyone has any info they can share I can start putting something together around this. If there is enough interest (and info) I could redesign some of my work to share the same exact sizes (each square in my sets is 1.6" X 1.6" - not sure if that is too big for AVP but it would give some of the larger minis some breathing room).
I've seen that thread, sadly does not show room by room layout unless the broken link pic is the one you mean @Basement.
I've also played CM and playing it again as well as movies, but can't find a full interior layout so I know what rooms go where. but def thinking of building entire colony for use in AVP
any other pics showing the interior room layout at all you guys know of as I can only find bits and pieces.
Can the people with the technical manual shed some light on the layout/map subject? I think you can pretty much wing it without anyone raging on you about it being wrong.
Edit: Nevermind Too tired to notice my suggestions had already been tried.
I actually have the technical manual if that's the colonial marines one with dropship on front.
It's killing me not knowing the entire layout, but I'm now finding mentions of a full plan never being released, so it may be a case of making what we know about and then filling in the parts we don't.
I assume it will be all the things like bedrooms, showers toilets, kitchens/ mess rooms etc, so it should be straight forward enough.
I do suspect this may run into a 12 foot by 6 foot board but hell that will add more interest to long games as they work through out the entire colony.
Add in the fact it is at least 3 levels (Basement, GF, FF) and that's a lot of fun
Appreciate help basement and Pacific still though.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Just found this, enjoy
Those do look rather awesome! That would be one hell of a project...
Latest update from Prodos..
The 'waiting for approval from Fox' thing seems rather ominous! Surely just a technicality?
Project Update #61
Hi guys,
Apologies for the late nature of this update. Jarek is currently pulling his hair out over a variety of things whilst we prepare for yet another big move. We have simply outgrown our premises due to the popularity of our Warzone Resurrection line now that it has hit retail.
Unfortunately we have no more news regarding the boxes approval. Once we do, we will announce it.
Obviously, due to once again having to move, there will be radio silence next week. We will continue to answer messages, but there will be no update unless we hear something from 20th Century Fox regarding approval. We are not willing to make this time bound. If we must take longer, we will. We do promise that it is being looked at though (unfortunately for us and you guys, time must be taken with these things, to ensure it is done correctly).
In other news, we have started our Crusaders programme!
Please click the image below for more information on how to join our Crusader demo team!
And.. that link in the email doesn't work, so couldn't tell you what is involved with the demo team
Thank you so much for your patience for the past 2 weeks, once again I can only apologise for the fact we moved premises. We have now settled down, the printer is running, the models are casting, the packing is happening, but the emails are not. All emails and social media is currently being answered in our UK Headquarters, whilst the Polish offices are currently waiting for the internet to come back.
Our new place of residence is HUGE and quite rightly so, AvP helped make this happen in a really big way so our team in Poland would like to THANK EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU.
We are all very excited indeed to be able to show this, the box that your wonderful miniatures will come in. It has grown in size due to the Board Game being a little bigger than perhaps we first anticipated...
As you can see, the artwork we had made is absolutely stunning and I can only assure you that the books, cards and gaming materials (tiles, etc) look equally amazing. We will be revealing pictures of those soon as we are able to. The box itself is very strong with a beautiful matte finish.
Seriously, I don't know about you guys, but I seriously think this will look awesome on every single wargaming, boardgaming and other nerdvana store's shelf in the world...
Once again, thank you for your patience, we recognise how hard the wait is for what is going to be an utterly superlative product. So thank you again.
Cheers!
Prodos Games LTD (well, Rob from the UK Office)
For the box game, the major difference is the figure material, but they did also mention:
As well as the cutting edge miniatures, the KS Exclusive AvP The Hunt Begins Gamers Collection Edition will be packaged in a deluxe KS-only box and include exclusive tokens and cards.
No idea what those differences will end up being though.
CptJake wrote: For the box game, the major difference is the figure material, but they did also mention:
As well as the cutting edge miniatures, the KS Exclusive AvP The Hunt Begins Gamers Collection Edition will be packaged in a deluxe KS-only box and include exclusive tokens and cards.
No idea what those differences will end up being though.
Ah, okay. Thanks!
This is one project where i've definitely had some non-backers regret.
How frigging awesome is that box art? Can't wait to see a blow-up of it.
Really intrigued to see how the solo play work, and ultimately how this will translate to non-board game. I have an army/science facility table that is just asking to be crewed by colonial marines, and to be over-run by aliens!
I'll be honest, I'm close to tenting in my pants region, the box looks awesome, and the minis are just looking better and better to me....
Have been hoarding and collecting tons of interior terrain items and am now beginning sketching up my colony design so by the time it all arrives I can have the basics built and undercoated for use.
Corridors will have to be nice and wide to hold crushers etc (I'm assuming a crusher would fill up a corridor but still fit in one fluff wise.
You should start a blog already Duce, to start chronicling your ideas and terrain building prior to the box set arriving..
Will give us something to look at in the rundown stretch..
I've meant to be taking part in a game called 'LV-426' later in the year, which is done with Kurosan's ('not alien') 15mm miniatures. Hoping that this stuff will arrive in time so that that event will have some 15mm stuff for the larger conflict, then can jump to the inside of the base/complex for the conclusion..
Well guys, it's Friday and our printers have given us some awesome pictures of the game contents.
Please keep in mind the book is blank due to the text being finalised! In your copy, there will be contents and words!
Your Kickstarter Boxed Game will come with a host of goodies, printed to the highest standard.
The Hunt Begins rules come in a handy, full colour booklet with all the information you require to play the game.
Here is a sample of the inside of the Rules booklet. The layouts are simple and clear and the text will be printed in a legible and clear size.
We are all massive fans of high quality artwork here at Prodos, and settle for nothing less than the best. We are sure you agree that these are simply wonderful... Each faction has its own 'style' of artwork on the cards, which are printed at a standard card size, so that finding card sleeves is not difficult at all.
You've seen it before, but the box is sumptuous indeed. With a wonderful matte finish, it really suggests that this is a premium product that we hope has been worth the wait.
Here is the doors and tokens sheet, I wonder if you guys can make any guesses as to what the tokens are for? The doors come in both standard and infested formats, as you can see. Once again, the level of detail is stunning and we like to think that you can see why it has taken some time to produce it to this level.
Here is just one sample of the Board Tiles. There are some standard Wayland-Yutani ones and also a Predator one. As promised, these are double sided...
So that's it for this week, a very tasty Kickstarter update indeed!
Once again, Poland is still struggling to get their internet hooked up, so this is a message from our UK Office! Have a great weekend and if you need to know more, ask away and we will do what we can to aid you.
Cheers!
Prodos Games LTD (Well, Rob from the UK office...)
Is it wrong I feel This could really work in a TCG format (The cards could work in the table top game as well as independently) kind of like hearthstone to give an idea (Health, damage abilities on card so you have your unit's stats handy, but the cards can also battle each other)
I'd guess at something similar to the high-grade board games around, similar to Space Hulk or Descent for instance, with a jigsaw-type joining arrangement.
@torpedo - Think that is possibly just the art, and the grid for the game will be overlaid on top of it.
This looks fantastic, I'm not sure about the expanded wargame but I'll be picking up one of these sets. Has anything been said about a general retail release date yet?
It's my Birthday in September so I've got my fingers crossed for then.....
Hi there guys!
This week we are early, the guys in Poland are set up with the internet and they are working away through their emails trying to get stuff sorted and finalise a few details. They also went on a bit of a road-trip today to the printers! As for me, in the UK, I am rushing off to Edinburgh tomorrow to visit Scotland's premier Wargames Show, Claymore! We'll be there all day on Saturday to sell our wares, so come and say hello and give Warzone Resurrection a go.
You can find the details here: CLAYMORE
Well, what was that road-trip all about, I hear you ask? Well, here are some (very quick) photographs from Jarek's fantastic camera phone...
They're coming out'ta the goddamn walls!!!
Set up with some of our beautiful models... However, there is one problem we have found that we will need to resolve as you can see below...
The tiles are a bit loose... The manufacturer is going to resolve this by creating new cutting tools. Unfortunately this is simply not the quality of product we or Fox want to represent. This process has been quoted as 'at least 2 weeks work' so we are going to allow for 4. We will keep you up to date with this.
Can I just say, having a board with models on it is, in itself, something truly awesome! Just like this next Kickstarter we wanted to plug.
So, Brindie Gamers is a group of 'British Independent' miniature Wargaming Companies of which one, Infamy Miniatures, is running a pretty successful Kickstarter. He's already taken his first steps into the industry and created some stunning work, but now wants to make his own game with a large range of models.
Check out some of his work!
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/infamyminis/infamy-welcome-to-the-big-smoke This is a truly awesome range and these are only a small snippet of that. Please follow up with his Kickstarter and pledge even £1 to have a look at the Living Rulebook he will be publishing!
Once again, thanks for reading through this, we will do our best to answer questions!
Oh and last week someone asked if the Hardback Rules for AvP are Board AND Wargame rules, no, they are only Wargame rules. The Boardgame rules come with the Boardgame!
Cheers!
Prodos Games LTD (well, Rob in the UK Office!)
I for one have no love of those tiles... And that feeling is echoed in the comments section...
Prodos replied;
Creator Prodos Games Ltd about 3 hours ago
OK, to clarify, it's only a cut proof, before it goes to mass production and its not produced of final material but on whatever they have in printing place, Rob forgot to add it.
And on the lack of 'movement grids'
Creator Prodos Games Ltd about 3 hours ago
no grid is needed nor measuring tape, however, the rules include the conversion to grids if needed or homebrew tiles.
One particularly irate backer questioned Prodos' total approach...
@prodos. . What day is it? I would really like to know. . I was looking forward to seeing a nice friday update like last weeks... BUT that is how can I put it............. really really BAD. Oh *bother* it lets not try and be polite that is utter . You had problems with the printer's. Then the cutting tools. Then with fox. And so on and so on. Now back to the cutting tool, that was getting sorted months ago. What is going on.
.
Think its time to cut your losses
OR
Stop messing your backers around and send us a free figure out this week....yes this week .
How hard can that be
(Note: edited comment for language)
Creator Prodos Games Ltd about 2 hours ago
Colin, it looks like there was a modification to the cutting tool we were not informed about it, maybe to improve fitting ??? , the final cutting proofs just arrived like that and we've just flagged the issue to the supplier and informed you (backers) about it... I thought sharing the issue with you was a right move...
Those minis look awesome, but one questions the logic of releasing pics like that of the board (and not making it absolutely clear that it's a mock up) especially when it looks so sub-standard.
Can you imagine a new concept for a car appearing with it mounted on bricks instead of wheels.. "Oh don't worry, those will be added later"
And then,
'Tiles don't have a grid and measuring system isn't needed.... "
and... and.... finish the god-damn sentence here, are we going to be measuring with our fore-arms ?!
I admire Prodos being open with progress, but come on you have to have some idea of how this will look to backers (*points at self desperately*) who have spent hundreds of pounds on this damn thing !
I think people are being unnecessarily harsh on Prodos over those tiles. It sucks that it means another delay but better that than releasing a flawed product just for the sake of being 'on time'.
LuciusAR wrote: I think people are being unnecessarily harsh on Prodos over those tiles. It sucks that it means another delay but better that than releasing a flawed product just for the sake of being 'on time'.
I disagree. This late in the game and you show that you are further behind than you previously indicated you should be called out for it. Yeah, kudos to owning up to it, but no way anyone should be happy about it. Couple that with an out of the blue 'no grids and no need for a measuring device' (which contradicts what we 'knew' about the board game) with no further explanation and I can see why folks are not happy. And they should show it. Piping nothing but sunshine up their asses gives them the Okay to continue as is, and frankly that isn't good.
I mean seriously, at what point did game mechanisms move away from gridded movement and why are we just finding out about it now?
How long have folks been asking for good shots of the game board (I know I was asking during the campaign) and been told 'don't worry, it is Fanfuckingtastic and on track! Just to find out that is not really the case.
Prodos (and Fox) deserves to know backers are not happy. The quality reasons we are not happy will directly affect how well the game does or does not do when the retail version hits the market.
LuciusAR wrote: I think people are being unnecessarily harsh on Prodos over those tiles. It sucks that it means another delay but better that than releasing a flawed product just for the sake of being 'on time'.
I disagree. This late in the game and you show that you are further behind than you previously indicated you should be called out for it. Yeah, kudos to owning up to it, but no way anyone should be happy about it. Couple that with an out of the blue 'no grids and no need for a measuring device' (which contradicts what we 'knew' about the board game) with no further explanation and I can see why folks are not happy. And they should show it. Piping nothing but sunshine up their asses gives them the Okay to continue as is, and frankly that isn't good.
I mean seriously, at what point did game mechanisms move away from gridded movement and why are we just finding out about it now?
How long have folks been asking for good shots of the game board (I know I was asking during the campaign) and been told 'don't worry, it is Fanfuckingtastic and on track! Just to find out that is not really the case.
Prodos (and Fox) deserves to know backers are not happy. The quality reasons we are not happy will directly affect how well the game does or does not do when the retail version hits the market.
But would you rather have a shoddy product on time? or would you want to want for the delay for a superior product?
That is the question.
Yes it is a bummer that there is another delay, but I also do feel that people are exaggerating the problem a bit too much, its not like as if they are ripping you off/coning you on your money, as you have seen progress pics showing that this product is going to be released.
As someone who is waiting for the retail release, yes its a bummer that I have to wait even longer than the backers, however I would rather want a superior product rather than a shoddy one..
What I want is to be informed of decisions which affect the game and the schedule soon after they are made instead of way after they are made. That bad news doesn't get better with time thing... Using the 'no grid now' example. I very seriously doubt that was a new decision. I would have liked to known about it when they made it and have had the reasoning and replacement mechanisms explained. I'm not just buying this for figures, I want a fun and playable board game. When you change a mechanism as basic as movement and range determination, I want to know.
How often and how many times do backers need to ask about base sizes before Prodos answers the question? Again, if they are far along in game development as they would lead us to believe, that info should have been out there in an official from Prodos manner a while ago.
And lets be clear, yes we've seen progress pictures. That is not proof the product will be released. As a licensed product, Fox at some point could say "pull the plug, you're not producing what we wanted" or Prodos could burn through available funds and not have the money to finish production and distribution of the product. Are either of those likely? I hope not, but progress pics are not necessarily indicative of guaranteed release either.
The 'well I would rather wait for a decent product than get served a plate of hot garbage on time' answer is old and tired. The reality is they should do a much better job of project planning and management and communicate changes/circumstances which affect timelines sooner and better than they are. They pulled in a lot of money. They have an expensive and big license which is potentially very profitable. When you join up for a big league game, small league excuses don't cut it. As a consumer, accepting those excuses without letting Prodos know it is BS is teaching Prodos their current behavior is fine. If I don't think it is fine, I owe to both Prodos and mself to let them know where I think they are falling short. The ability to accept criticism and get better should be strived for. Accepting status quo when it is substandard is just wrong.
CptJake wrote: What I want is to be informed of decisions which affect the game and the schedule soon after they are made instead of way after they are made. That bad news doesn't get better with time thing... Using the 'no grid now' example. I very seriously doubt that was a new decision. I would have liked to known about it when they made it and have had the reasoning and replacement mechanisms explained. I'm not just buying this for figures, I want a fun and playable board game. When you change a mechanism as basic as movement and range determination, I want to know.
How often and how many times do backers need to ask about base sizes before Prodos answers the question? Again, if they are far along in game development as they would lead us to believe, that info should have been out there in an official from Prodos manner a while ago.
And lets be clear, yes we've seen progress pictures. That is not proof the product will be released. As a licensed product, Fox at some point could say "pull the plug, you're not producing what we wanted" or Prodos could burn through available funds and not have the money to finish production and distribution of the product. Are either of those likely? I hope not, but progress pics are not necessarily indicative of guaranteed release either.
The 'well I would rather wait for a decent product than get served a plate of hot garbage on time' answer is old and tired. The reality is they should do a much better job of project planning and management and communicate changes/circumstances which affect timelines sooner and better than they are. They pulled in a lot of money. They have an expensive and big license which is potentially very profitable. When you join up for a big league game, small league excuses don't cut it. As a consumer, accepting those excuses without letting Prodos know it is BS is teaching Prodos their current behavior is fine. If I don't think it is fine, I owe to both Prodos and mself to let them know where I think they are falling short. The ability to accept criticism and get better should be strived for. Accepting status quo when it is substandard is just wrong.
But you still have not answered the question.
Would you want shoddy product on time or a superior one slower?
The reality is that your still avoiding the question.
Like I said I know the frustration, as someone who has to wait for retail, which is longer waiting than the backers its is annoying to wait, however because they have provided proof and told us that there will be a delay that they have said they cannot help, it is an understandable problem..
And lets be honest, unless some sort of utterly unpredictable problem arises such as all the factories producing the AvP game suddenly get sucked into gigantic sinkholes or suddenly all combust at the same time, the likelihood is, this product is going to get released. Prodos has been constantly been checking with Fox the quality seems to be up to their standards and expectations and I really do think Prodos is being careful with its money so I really doubt that they are going to burn though..
It seems to me that Prodos has been clear to its backers and every delay seems to have been made through unseen circumstances.. Its not everyday you see a company be very open to its backers.
Yes you are entitled to tell Prodos that you and Co. is not happy, but don't you think Prodos already knows, heck I bet their not happy about this delay themselves.
Would you want shoddy product on time or a superior one slower?
The reality is that your still avoiding the question.
The reality is that the two things (timeliness and quality) are NOT mutually exclusive despite most every late kickstarter using the latter as an excuse to cover their butt on the former. You can be both late and inferior or alternately on time and superior.
Would you want shoddy product on time or a superior one slower?
The reality is that your still avoiding the question.
The reality is that the two things (timeliness and quality) are NOT mutually exclusive despite most every late kickstarter using the later as an excuse to cover their butt on the latter. You can be both late and inferior or alternately on time and superior.
Exactly, I have not avoided the (now moot*) question. I want what I paid for, a premium board game. What they have shown so far for the tiles indicates they are not ready to deliver what I bought.
I want Prodos to get their gak together and I want them to communicate better. If you really believe 'every delay 'was the result of ' unseen circumstances' then you must believe Prodos has their eyes shut so they cannot see. This was not their first trip to the rodeo.
The question is moot. I am not really given the option by Prodos. There is no way they invent a time machine in order to deliver even a shoddy product on time. They are late. Every day they are later. Your choice is a false choice to begin with.
HudsonD wrote: You read the comments about a 4 week delay, you'd think Prodos is worse than Palladium...
Palladium was using the "we want quality so it'll be late" excuse back in December/January before they put out pics of the "quality" models that looked like crap with seams along most every front surface and a parts count of 30 pieces for a terminator sized model because of stupid decisions like splitting things the size of a space marine's head in half. Nobody is worse than palladium without stepping over the line into outright fraud. I do, however, admit that after the ignorance and deceit in the Robotech KS that I'm a bit sensitive to the ol' "late for quality" excuse even if they've partly fixed some issues. It is effectively the "dog ate my homework" excuse for delinquent gaming kickstarters.
CptJake wrote: I don't want to waste time in the comments section. If they've dropped the idea of using a grid, what are they replacing it with?
If they answer that, could someone please post it here?
Thanks
Jake
As a guess, movement will be by tile: a fig may move up to two tiles as a possible example, and other figs on a shooting figure's tile do not block his LOS. Ranges could be in tiles.
This would eliminate the need for grid or measuring devices.
warboss wrote: Palladium was using the "we want quality so it'll be late" excuse back in December/January before they put out pics of the "quality" models that looked like crap with seams along most every front surface and a parts count of 30 pieces for a terminator sized model because of stupid decisions like splitting things the size of a space marine's head in half. Nobody is worse than palladium without stepping over the line into outright fraud. I do, however, admit that after the ignorance and deceit in the Robotech KS that I'm a bit sensitive to the ol' "late for quality" excuse even if they've partly fixed some issues. It is effectively the "dog ate my homework" excuse for delinquent gaming kickstarters.
Were it Palladium or DP9 saying such a thing, yes, I'd assume it's just an excuse, but so far Prodos have shown they're reasonnably competent and professional, so they deserve the benefit of doubt when they mention a delay.
Furthermore, given the tasks involved in re-cutting all the tiles, 2 to 4 weeks a delay is perfectly reasonnable.
I'd certainly prefer if the box and minis were already there, but so far, this project has been satisfyingly well-managed.
Why would a company send you a cut proof of your product using materials that are different from the intended production materials?
Wouldn't they have to send out another cut proof, using the intended materials, since the intended materials may cause issues as well?
I wouldn't be surprised if the material used was the intended material until they saw the cut proof and decided it sucked and needed to be changed.
Looking at their proofs, I get the feeling they have little to no experience on the boardgame aspect of the game and are making rookie mistakes (warped blast template) as they try and save money.
They should have just released a couple of double sided maps with the game.
I have to say, I'm massively excited by the miniatures for this game. I would get them regardless of having a game to play with them (sure it wouldn't be too much trouble subbing in another rule set).
But, hearing that they have done away with squares or measurement (the former to protect the look of the artwork) doesn't give me that much faith in the mechanics for this game. Movement and movement rate is a pretty fundamental mechanic of any board or tabletop game, and if that is being decided at this late stage.. well, I hope we just don't end up with some rules that stink - it can't have left much time for playtesting surely?
The say they will be shipping next month. No time at all for play testing and making adjustments to the rules that will ship with the game at this point. Hell, I doubt they will actually get the tiles approved and printed in time to pack the game box and get them shipped to where ever they intend to fulfill pledges from in the time they have left, unless they are even more full of gak than I assume at this point and already have printed them.
Actually, I was wondering whether they were printed and then suddenly realised that there were no grids on them..
Or, it's some kind of nonsense from Fox or licensing that means the images can't be changed in any way.
Perhaps I'm being disingenuous - there is precedent with board games using a 'tile' for range and movement (the AD&D boardgames, for one), but it's just the way that this has been sprung a month before the game is due to ship. And, I'm sure that preview games we were shown over the past year had a grid system for the game!
I have a feeling that Deadzone probably had some influence here. Sure, it had a grid, but considering the movement speed of the miniatures they may as well be moving around a series of 3x3 tiles.
However I don't think this is a recent decision. Even back in May I think it was clear that there weren't going to be grids on the tile sections and the shots we have seen of the resin terrain have never had grids on them. You can even look at the artist proofs from March although to be fair, you might not want to have the grid showing on the proofs.
..but yeah, they didn't come out and say that back then. It doesn't bother me personally because I prefer the tile-based movement but I can appreciate that it isn't going to be for everybody.
Although it feels like I'm just repeating myself now, I couldn't give less of a gak about the board game rules. I'm sure they'll be fun enough for a few play-throughs, but I just want my sweet, sweet Warrior Aliens. I've got RPGs to run, man.
And that's where I'm getting ticked off. I almost wish they'd send stuff out in dribs and drabs if it meant getting my non-board-game figures sooner.
Siygess wrote: I have a feeling that Deadzone probably had some influence here. Sure, it had a grid, but considering the movement speed of the miniatures they may as well be moving around a series of 3x3 tiles.
However I don't think this is a recent decision. Even back in May I think it was clear that there weren't going to be grids on the tile sections and the shots we have seen of the resin terrain have never had grids on them. You can even look at the artist proofs from March although to be fair, you might not want to have the grid showing on the proofs.
..but yeah, they didn't come out and say that back then. It doesn't bother me personally because I prefer the tile-based movement but I can appreciate that it isn't going to be for everybody.
But they were specifically asked about grids on the resin terrain during the project funding period, and promised they would be there.
I know 'stuff changes', but I see an integrity issue here. This isn't a recent decision (clearly if they think they can start shipping next month rules have been written and printing approved and likely ongoing), yet they've kept it from us. What else have they kept from us?
It is great that some folks don't care about the game. Hooray for them. That does not change the fact that some folks DO care about the game (likely to include the license holder, Fox) and if it ends up being half assed it is going to hurt Prodos' ability to expand the line.
Do you have to make almost every post you write sound like a slight, CptJake? I don't think anyone cares nothing about the game design, but just in the scheme of things that is less important than the miniatures (proportionately more or less so)
Right now I think that the KS is suffering from poor quality comms, and it almost reads like it is being done by a fan who is commenting on what he is seeing in a half-arsed manner, rather than the producers from the game itself. It's been like a captain on an airplane saying "there is a problem" to the passengers, but then not giving any further details - of course, everyone onboard is going to be going crazy!
Pacific wrote: Do you have to make almost every post you write sound like a slight, CptJake? I don't think anyone cares nothing about the game design, but just in the scheme of things that is less important than the miniatures (proportionately more or less so)
I guess when I read
Ktulhut wrote: Although it feels like I'm just repeating myself now, I couldn't give less of a gak about the board game rules.
and similar comments (of which I've seen plenty of), it annoys me. There have been folks in the KS comments section and here that seem annoyed that some folks do care about the board game. I have not seen similar comments from the opposite side where folks don't care about figure quality and belittle those who do.
Fair enough Jake, but we're just expressing our opinions. I happen to be much more interested in the wargame than the board game, and even more interested in simply painting my models.
What annoys me is that my models are just sitting in a warehouse in Poland because the one aspect of the release I'm going to get the least use out of isn't done yet.
Reminds me of Wyrd's "Evil Baby Orphanage" KS that got held up for months because of issues with a small plushie. Of note, it had *zero* rules applications, but it kept people from getting almost everything for ages. As I recall they shipped out the core deck, but all the expansions, minis and other perks were held up.
Anyway, sorry to hear about the delay, but it still looks like you guys will get your stuff long before Palladium gets around to even shipping wave one of our stuff out.
That sounds like a real pain. I suppose it shows, no matter how badly you think your KS is being handled, there will always be one that is worse (not that that excuses anything).
The latest update, no. 66
Hello backers,
On the heels of last week's update and your comments, here is this week's update.
Over the next few days, hopefully by Sunday, Jarek is going to post a video explaining the decision made to remove the grids from the board and how it will work. This will be a visual explanation and should be posted by Sunday right here. I promise it will be much less 'fussy' than our video on the front page...
I would also like to re-iterate again, we show you everything we are allowed to show you. Anything we cannot show, we simply do not. This might look like we are 'holding back', especially when compared to other Kickstarters, but I am afraid that is totally down to the project being what it is.
We are excited to see what you guys think of it when it gets to you, but we have to hold back on what we show and be professional, simply as we are legally obliged to do so! Everything is going well and running smoothly and the delay is totally unavoidable.
We would like to thank you for the patience you have all displayed thus far.
Reading the positive comments from many of you, and displaying your understanding compassion, has been a real help to everyone involved.
So once again. If we have not shown you something, this is because we cannot show it due to legal obligations!
Good news, in response to a high number of requests from many of our backers we have chosen to re-open the Pledge Manager. If you don't want to add anything, you will not need to do anything, but if you do want to add anything, the pledge manager will be open for you to do so. The reason we closed the Pledge Manager initially was for our admin team to fulfil certain contractual obligations but we are now able to re-open it. The Pledge Manager will re-open by Monday at 11.59PM we will make an update out of our usual 'every Friday' sequence to let you know when this has happened.
We would also like to take a moment to write a little something about some very unfortunate news we received. One of our backers, David Chase from Kansas, USA, has unfortunately passed away. His mother, Evajean Chase has kindly provided us some information about her son.
From what I have gathered, speaking to Evajean, he was an incredibly kind soul, dedicated to his hobby and to his country. His life was unfortunately short, due to a year and a half long struggle with cancer, but he will be fondly remembered by his family and friends as someone who truly tried to make a difference to local politics, regardless of how hard it might have been to make a change.
We offered to refund the pledge he made and put it towards his trust fund, but she requested that we actually keep the pledge he would have wanted to make towards the project. So, with this payment, we have decided that we are going to submit some concepts to Fox for a new character within the setting, in memorial of David.
This, if approved, will be a character within the USCM with background, rules and a model in the game.
October 1963 - March 2014
October 1963 - March 2014
From all of us at Prodos Games LTD, we hope he may rest in peace.
As always, if you have any questions, please send a private message or comment below and we will do our best to get back to you.
Thank you all again, Prodos Games LTD
Think that's a really nice touch, hopefully they will get the go-ahead from Fox to make the miniature.
Looking forward to some of the rule demo videos now.
Prodos put something on their Facebook page yesterday which linked to a blog post and video on kick-starter showing game play and explaining how the game is going to work without the use of grids. However the content was visible to backers only.
Has anyone seen it who would care to give us a low down?
LuciusAR wrote: Prodos put something on their Facebook page yesterday which linked to a blog post and video on kick-starter showing game play and explaining how the game is going to work without the use of grids. However the content was visible to backers only.
Has anyone seen it who would care to give us a low down?
This ?
Couple of main ones was:
board aesthetics
different sized models and issues they create on limited tile surface
unsymmetrical balance - offering all players a dynamic experience despite commanding different number of units
conflicts with some specific game mechanics
They mention a few thing, like the grid ruining the art (ok), the mini bases being 30mm and bigger, with some models not even having a base (the crusher I think) while the grid was 25mm square, streamlining movement to help gameplay, and a few other things that work better with a square grid, like hiding and stuff.
If you ask me, they're still using a grid, except the square are now tile-sized. So, yeah...
I got the impression the issues boil down to poor scenario design coupled with not being able to write rules that handled different base sizes and perhaps a poor choice of grid size (1 inch grids were smaller than even the smallest bases, that was a really bright choice from the get go). I'm looking forward to how they intend to handle LOS in the rules. The grid made explaining it in Space Hulk pretty easy.
Seems to be massive backlash over allowing people who missed the KS a chance to buy pledges on their website.
As someone who bought a pledge via Paypal just after the funding period, perhaps I'm biased, but as long as people are getting the toys they pledged for, what's the issue?
It's not like new "backers" buying pledges takes anything away from anyone.
Alex C wrote: Seems to be massive backlash over allowing people who missed the KS a chance to buy pledges on their website.
As someone who bought a pledge via Paypal just after the funding period, perhaps I'm biased, but as long as people are getting the toys they pledged for, what's the issue?
It's not like new "backers" buying pledges takes anything away from anyone.
Because the people who backed originally will have paid more by the time the game ships. The longer between payment and delivery, the more expensive your pledge gets because of inflation and opportunity cost of said money. It actively discourages people from pledging to their campaigns in the future because there is the possibility they can just wait until 4 months prior to delivery or whatever and "pre-order" then.
Quite a comprehensive email in the latest KS update, #69
Hi there guys, sorry for the late update.
We have a Warzone Tournament in the UK on Monday and our UK staff have been preparing for that. I've (Rob) also been off to The Grid in Doncaster to raise money for charity by running demos of Warzone.
However, here is the update that should have gone up yesterday. Please accept my apologies for the delay!
So, I took notes on things you guys wanted to see, I have passed these onto the Polish office, who are working on photographs of these. As soon as they are available and we are allowed to show them, I will make sure to update (even if this means updating out of the weekly sequence). These were (and correct me if I am wrong!):
We also wanted to update you on the model for Dave Chase. We have completed our first concept and submitted it to Fox. We are awaiting approval on this. We have had 50 extra backers via our Post-Kickstarter pledges available from shop.prodosgames.com, if we get another 25 and subject to approval, this will be included with all KICKSTARTER (people who pledged on the Kickstarter, not via email or our website) pledgers of 'We are in the Pipe, five by five' and above for free!
If it is not approved, we will still make heads of Dave Chase, which will fit on any 32mm scale Human miniature. If this is the way we end up having to make them, we will include one in your KICKSTARTER (people who pledged on the Kickstarter, not via email or our website) pledge of 'We are in the Pipe, five by five' and above for free.
Over the past few days, we have had mixed responses about opening up the ability to pledge again. For those of you that have posted who are against our decision to do this, please allow me to explain in a little more depth. This is, as far as I am aware, everything I can say.
1. We have target commitments, as part of our license, with 20th Century Fox to meet. To successfully achieve this goal, we needed to secure further sales of the game.
2. As we are manufacturing a Kickstarter Exclusive Game, we have to make a minimum of 5000 units (this is the minimum amount to meet the next bracket for printing costs).
After checking our Kickstarter numbers, we will not meet even half of this number, meaning we would be warehousing over 2500 unused games that won't be available once we start shipping to backers. Warehousing any product has a huge cost implication. This is why we made the business decision to sell these remaining units using the same offer as Kickstarter and keep things fair. It also made business sense for us to meet the demands of folks who did unfortunately miss the Kickstarter. These 5000 copies represent a collectable, Special Edition version of the game as promised and once they are gone, will not be available again.
This goes for the Predator Berserker (both opaque and clear cast) model too.
Please bear in mind that the quantities listed on our website are there simply so that we do not sell out of a particular pledge level. Until the end of October, we will continue to sell them and then once we reach that time, we will stop selling them.
Any remaining copies will be donated to charity and distributed to retailers to use as demo copies. We read a comment on our forum suggesting we were making 8000 copies available, which is simply not the case!
3. What is actually taking so long? We cannot ship this product in grip-seal bags as many other Kickstarters do. We have to make fully approved packaging with the legal information/toy safety requirements under UK, Asian, EU, USA and Australian laws. Until we get a full green light, our hands are tied.
4. This project is huge for us and 20th Century Fox. This project involves a lot of components, a totally new experience for 20th Century Fox (Kickstarter itself is totally new to them, as is miniature wargaming in this sense (not like pre-painted Horrorclix, for example) and all has to be explained in depth). Simply put, we underestimated the scale of this project, specifically pertaining to the legal requirements we have to meet. However, we are in the last stage of it, Fox are keen for the product to get out, as are we, so please bear with us. Anyone who has met us in person will tell you that our passion drives us and we work with gusto to make sure this happens. I know for folks in France, Spain, USA, Russia, or anywhere in the world, this is hard to believe, but I wish, I really, really wish, that I could meet every single one of you and make it clear to you that this is how we are. Hopefully one day we will!
5. In the first week of September we have a meeting with 20th Century Fox to discuss how we can improve co-operation between our two companies to speed up this whole process and give you not only the products you have pledged for swiftly, but also the products we have planned for the future.
Thank you again, every single one of you, for your patience and I hope that this makes it clear where we, Prodos Games, stand.
As always, feel free to ask questions here and we will do our best to answer them if we can.
Yes, if both Prodos and Fox are breaking new ground with this release you can see why they will have run into so many hurdles.
I can't imagine what it must be like dancing to the tune of a company like that with concern to legal stipulations (probably moonwalking, mixed in with some backflips on a tight-rope) but time and time again their name comes up in 'sorry, but we must... ' style updates.
Have given up holding my breath for this, it will come when it comes! There are some demos at Tabletop Nation here in the UK in November, it might be worthwhile checking what stage they are at at that point.
I might have missed this before but prodos have just confirmed in the comments, that the marines will match the warzone miniatures in size (which are now marked up as 32mm)
So if like me you wanted the marines to match your other 28mm you might be disappointed.
Can I ask what minis you are hoping them to go with though JoeRugby?
'28mm' has become something of a misnomer, there are actually very few miniatures that are only this height nowadays (a lot with this label are taller, or it is a reference to the height to the eye level)
Hasslefree, deadzone, infinity some 40k, and a few completely randoms. All fit quite nicely together for any crossover games/scenarios I might do. (Aside from Space marines not looking 7ft tall that is)
Xmm scale has always been to the eyes for me with 'heroic' meaning exaggerated features. But that's a whole massive conversation that the industry has been having for years. (as much as if vehicles should be based or not)
From what I've seen of the WZR minis they will tower over what I've got in my collection which is a shame because I would love to own some of the blood berets not to mention the other larger lines out there( I'm looking at you knight models)
size comparison pic off the internet.
Also WZR was originally a 28mm game but they are now marked up on their packaging as 32mm, so if prodos are saying that the AVP minis are the same proportions then they too are 32mm not 28mm. If their 32mm to top of head then they might still work if it's 32 mm to the eye then their way too big.
I pledged because of the Alien and Predator minis. (therefore the game related delays are a real pain for me...)
The Colonial Marines are just a nice sideeffect.
Latest update, important point here is that store visits/events for the immediate future are cancelled. If you had one planned (I was hoping to TTN for one in November), they advise calling the store to check its status
Hi Guys!
Not a great deal to post this week. We are still aware of your wishes to see particular items, some of which we are hoping to post in next week's update.
We have our meeting on the 2nd, to finalise a few things, hopefully we will be able to report afterwards and if so, we will tell you anything we are legally obliged to.
Unfortunately, as we have had to sign a company wide NDA and we are not allowed to show the game or miniatures publicly at this stage, we have had to cancel any AvP events for the time-being. If you were intended to visit a store to meet us, please phone the store to request what will actually be happening.
I think you have seen these before, but these were the render concepts for the Young Bloods.
Thanks again for your patience and we hope to report again during the week!
PRODOS Games LTD
plus the fact they've had various prototype minis visible at cons/play-days when they've clearly (from the update) not been meant to show anything without approval
the perils of working with a licenced product is you do have to keep to the terms of the licence
Pacific wrote: Latest update, important point here is that store visits/events for the immediate future are cancelled. If you had one planned (I was hoping to TTN for one in November), they advise calling the store to check its status
Hi Pacific,
We've not been made aware of any cancellation to our Prodos Games Day.
We'll keep you guys updated should anything change.
Pacific wrote: Latest update, important point here is that store visits/events for the immediate future are cancelled. If you had one planned (I was hoping to TTN for one in November), they advise calling the store to check its status
Hi Pacific,
We've not been made aware of any cancellation to our Prodos Games Day.
We'll keep you guys updated should anything change.
The games day is in November isn't it?
Hopefully all of the drama will be over for Prodos and well have our toys by then.
Pacific wrote: Oh OK - thanks for that will keep an eye out for any news!
Would love to attend the event if it is still going
Yeah, it's still happening.
I also recommend getting the £7 VIP ticket
Not because I work for the company, but because you'll end up spending £5 on lunch anyway.
The other £2 gives you access to extra stuff.
Alex C wrote: Can someone post update 71 here please?
Obviously, we had our meeting with 20th Century Fox yesterday. We understand it sounded pretty dire beforehand, but we had to use particular language as it is in the best legal interests of Prodos Games and Fox to do so. We're past that now, so should be less doom and gloom!
So, fundamentally, they LOVE what we have done. They were amazed at the quality of our maquettes and the production models are "mind-blowing" - Their words!
From what we can tell, high up in the tree of 20th Century Fox, one of the directors is incredibly impressed with the product and one member of the approval team, who is ex-GW, was simply amazed by the level of detail we have gone to.
Moving onto the actual approval and why things have taken longer than intended. When we approached them, they did not really understand the scale of the project. There are lots of small elements to approve (from bases, to stands for the cardboard doors, to the way we are putting models on a sprue, to the language and the 'feel' of the missions). It's a heck of a lot of work and they are used to signing off a 1 part project, such as a T-Shirt, Action Figure, etc. For something like this, they imagined it might be like Video Games, where you sign off the playstyle, concepts, etc, all in one go, rather than the dribs and drabs it has had to be.
So, we are now all on the same page and consolidated to get it all done. We are now waiting on approval of a few 'editorial' items. For example, how the Copyrights are laid out, where they are laid out, what colour they need to be. Even moving on to how will the missions be presented, how do you put the board together... All of these nitty-gritty things that make up a board game, but that get forgotten about.
We have a team of folks at Prodos Games LTD putting together the documents Fox have asked for, they then have an approval period to get it all approved in. They do not envision any issues.
We know that we quoted September and we know that many of you will be disappointed to hear yet again, another delay, but we have to. We have agreed with Fox that the product MUST be ready for sale before Christmas. This means we will be able to sell the 'AvP: The Hunt Begins' Board Game to stores and also ship them out to backers alongside their goodies all at the same time. End of October is when it is looking like this can even possibly happen. It's what we are aiming for, but I would imagine there will be a slight slip.
Anyway, I hope that clarifies some stuff and as usual, if you have any questions, please ask away!
Thanks!
Prodos Games LTD
What is the difference between the retail and KS versions fo the boxed game?
Initially it was supposed to be more than a difference in materials used for the figures. Anyone know if that still holds true?
And FYI, if you are a KS backer, be careful what you post to the comments, looks like Prodos took a page from the Iello play book and dropped a pledger making comments they did not like.
The KS version was supposed to have resin minis and an exclusive box.
Retail was supposed to have single pose plastics and standard box.
I can still see the boxes being different as it shouldn't be hard to print X copies of one style and the remainder be another style.
But I haven't heard anything about setting up plastics for the retail version. Maybe it's under NDA and Prodos couldn't talk about it, but I foresee a gakstorm if retail uses the resins. Backers will riot because resin was supposed to be KS exclusive and retail board gamers will lose their minds at the prospect of having to assemble anything.
There were also supposed to be KS exclusive cards and tokens, and I believe (though very well may have a faulty memory) KS only tiles (like for the predator ship) and that the KS tiles were to be double sided.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Well, I guess retail version has resin too, at least initially:
Prodos wrote:The retail version will be released in resin for a short period of time, whilst we continue to find a plastics manufacturer that we are happy with.
It is what it is. Prodos is turing promises into lies at a pretty decent clip. A company that flat out goes back on a promise is not a company that is going to get my support in the future. I won't fund a lack of integrity.
Even if the act of giving out what was supposed to be exclusive to the KS does not bother you, I would think being lied to would.
If not, no big deal, but I'm not built that way. A break in integrity pisses me me off. When it ends up being a pattern it pisses me off more.
I think you're blowing this out of proportion jake.
No plan survives contact, and I believe they never went into this with the intention to mislead. It's not lying, just adapting.
Prodos has been as open as their contract allows them to be, and as long as they deliver the models to me soon, I really couldn't care less that the KS exclusive becomes a limited ed general release.
Promising something is KS exclusive and then going back on that is gakky. Doing it when the KS was for a special edition of the game when a retail version was going to be made draws in customers who KNOW the game is going to be available, likely cheaper, because they want the special edition.
When you then not only re-open the pledge manager to non-KS people so they can buy it via that pledge manager, but also make that special KS only edition the retail version, that is crap, plain and simple.
I get adjusting plans as in delays and even releasing the KS concurrently with retail rather than early. Adjusting plans this way is BS though, it is a breach of integrity to me. And it isn't their first breach of integrity. And seriously, how long do you think they've known they were going to release the resins as retail version? It wasn't today.
As for being as open as their contract allows, I call BS on that too. I would be willing to bet there was nothing in the contract that prevented them from telling us they switched from a gridded method of movement and range to a non-gridded method. They kept that from us way after they had made the decision and then couldn't initially get their story straight as to why.
Read the FAQ on the main KS page, and look at how many of those FAQ items have now been 'adapted' away.
Again, I understand for some folks, as long as they eventually get their toys they will be happy, and freely admit it looks like the minis will be good (though I have very serious doubts about the rules for the game which is what I am really interested in). But again, to me, they have made decisions which result in breaking promises to us backers, and I find that a gakky thing to do.
Well Jake if you have any experience with the absolute gak fest that is RTT then you would appreciate the almost complete openness that I have seen with this KS
CptJake wrote: Promising something is KS exclusive and then going back on that is gakky. Doing it when the KS was for a special edition of the game when a retail version was going to be made draws in customers who KNOW the game is going to be available, likely cheaper, because they want the special edition.
When you then not only re-open the pledge manager to non-KS people so they can buy it via that pledge manager, but also make that special KS only edition the retail version, that is crap, plain and simple.
I get adjusting plans as in delays and even releasing the KS concurrently with retail rather than early. Adjusting plans this way is BS though, it is a breach of integrity to me. And it isn't their first breach of integrity. And seriously, how long do you think they've known they were going to release the resins as retail version? It wasn't today.
As for being as open as their contract allows, I call BS on that too. I would be willing to bet there was nothing in the contract that prevented them from telling us they switched from a gridded method of movement and range to a non-gridded method. They kept that from us way after they had made the decision and then couldn't initially get their story straight as to why.
Read the FAQ on the main KS page, and look at how many of those FAQ items have now been 'adapted' away.
Again, I understand for some folks, as long as they eventually get their toys they will be happy, and freely admit it looks like the minis will be good (though I have very serious doubts about the rules for the game which is what I am really interested in). But again, to me, they have made decisions which result in breaking promises to us backers, and I find that a gakky thing to do.
I'm sure there are also people like me that were waiting for the retail release hoping that it truly was filled with one piece miniatures ready to play right out of the box.
CptJake wrote: Promising something is KS exclusive and then going back on that is gakky. Doing it when the KS was for a special edition of the game when a retail version was going to be made draws in customers who KNOW the game is going to be available, likely cheaper, because they want the special edition.
When you then not only re-open the pledge manager to non-KS people so they can buy it via that pledge manager, but also make that special KS only edition the retail version, that is crap, plain and simple.
I get adjusting plans as in delays and even releasing the KS concurrently with retail rather than early. Adjusting plans this way is BS though, it is a breach of integrity to me. And it isn't their first breach of integrity. And seriously, how long do you think they've known they were going to release the resins as retail version? It wasn't today.
As for being as open as their contract allows, I call BS on that too. I would be willing to bet there was nothing in the contract that prevented them from telling us they switched from a gridded method of movement and range to a non-gridded method. They kept that from us way after they had made the decision and then couldn't initially get their story straight as to why.
Read the FAQ on the main KS page, and look at how many of those FAQ items have now been 'adapted' away.
Again, I understand for some folks, as long as they eventually get their toys they will be happy, and freely admit it looks like the minis will be good (though I have very serious doubts about the rules for the game which is what I am really interested in). But again, to me, they have made decisions which result in breaking promises to us backers, and I find that a gakky thing to do.
I'm sure there are also people like me that were waiting for the retail release hoping that it truly was filled with one piece miniatures ready to play right out of the box.
I was actually planning on buying one of those sets to use when playing with my daughter.
Update 72 wrote:
Sep 4 2014
This is rumour control, here are the facts...
72 comments
Like
54 likes
Hi guys,
Another update, as we want to clarify some things that have been brought up in the community here on the AvP Kickstarter.
We are almost certain that for some of you, nothing will appease you. This is totally understandable and something we have come to just accept. All we can say is that, as far as we know, we have told you everything we can.
We've also found that our words have been warped or twisted to some menacing ends. It's quite disturbing and upsetting, in all honesty. We are literally a small group of gamers, that started a project in excitement and have had to grow very quickly. It's been rough, hard and tireless work. As far as we know, we have told you everything. Don't get us wrong, of course, we understand that there is always room for misunderstanding, so if something does appear odd, or not fully truthful, we request that you PM us for more information.
Unfortunately, we cannot devote an employee's full time to checking messages and we have seen a trend of things going completely out of hand due to a comment going unchecked. However, Jarek and Rob have both been up in the small hours answering messages here and there, which just isn't effective and is actually affecting their performance. Rob had quite a dark patch during the Warzone Kickstarter and we don't want to see a repeat of that again with any of our staff.
In any case, allow me to re-iterate a few points and make them solid:
- If something is ready to be shown, we HAVE shown it to you. There is no dark or tricksy reason for not showing it, other than there is an inside reason we cannot. Whether that is because it is not ready in the manufacturing stage (i.e. it is undergoing testing) or it is in the approval stage.
- We are a small company with another product line too. Yes, you are correct that we are still shipping the 2nd Wave of the Warzone Resurrection Kickstarter. Our final 50 parcels are currently on the dispatch shelf and all that is left now are the usual missing parcels, mislaid orders to people that failed to fill their pledge manager (yes, they still occur even now!). The AvP Kickstarter has not and never will be affected by Warzone Resurrection, as the staff allocated to that task are not allocated to anything to do with this project. Releases continue to be regular and cash flow continues to be regular with our Warzone Resurrection line.
- We are a relatively small company working with a HUGE license. This involves a certain amount of precision. It is not Fox 'holding us up' or 'bending us over a barrel', quite the opposite, it is them holding our hands and making sure that everything is done correctly, as it should be. They are great at offering advice for areas of the business that we are completely new to.
As for our release estimation of late October/early November. Sure it sucks, and sure it may feel like we have lied to you. At no point have we EVER set out to lie to anyone. We do everything truthfully and as transparently as we can. Our estimated date has had to change because the editorial for the printed materials is not ready to be approved! Further to that, we then have to manufacture them, which is currently on priority order, as soon as the approval comes through. We'd like to just say that many Kickstarters are delayed and this is often the price of success.
We also understand that by going to retail at the same time as shipping, many of you feel let down. We understand this, however, please keep in mind:
- KS Backers will get the add-ons WAY before retail release (which will be next year)
- KS Backers will get extra tiles in their boxed game
- KS Backers will get the Predator Berserker - KS Backers will get the Facehuggers in their boxed set bundle - KS Backers will get the boxed game in Procast resin, not styrene plastic. - KS Backers over a certain level will get (approval pending) a David Chase model, absolutely free. - KS Backers get a better price for their purchases than anyone buying it at retail.
Here is where we are:
Resin Tunnels - Designs approved - Complications in the manufacturing stage which we estimate will be resolved in 2 weeks maximum. To fulfil the Kickstarter order will take 2-4 weeks of casting, along with other items.
Clear Predators - Approved - Complications in supplier. May have to change supplier and destroy what we currently have made, in case of any variation in quality. Waiting for shipment of new plastic.
Predator Tiles - Designs previewed on Kickstarter, fully approved. Elements with printer and will be supplied in the box.
Predator Young Bloods - Designs approved, in manufacture. 1 Design has flaw in it, so batch needs to be remade. Expected 2 weeks.
AvP Hard Plastics for General Release - In tooling stage. A well known UK plastics manufacturer is helping guide us through this process. It's been agreed that neither of us talk about the project we are working on until tooling is complete and we actually have sprues being manufactured.
So that's it. I think/hope that answers everything. If you want to know more, please PM and we will draw up an FAQ on here, rather than creating more hysteria.
Please accept a huge thank you for your patience with us and this project, Prodos Games LTD
Automatically Appended Next Post: I'll quickly note when they say "KS Backers will get the boxed game in Procast resin, not styrene plastic."
The initial retail release will also be 'procast resin, not styrene plastic' as per there comment I linked to above. They don't even have a plastic manufacturer lined up yet*, so to get it to retail for Christmas (and assumedly to unload the rest of the 5k print run) they will be using the same figures us KS folks will get.
* Prodos quote from yesterday: "The retail version will be released in resin for a short period of time, whilst we continue to find a plastics manufacturer that we are happy with. At this stage, we have not found someone that can create the kind of miniatures we want, for a price that is suitable and within a suitable time frame (some have quoted us years!)."
Seriously. If they are letting people in after the funding period, why conceal all this info from us? Just make the updates public Prodos!
Yeah, they do some interesting things.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Prodos wrote:Update #73 - For backers only
Sep 12 2014
This is rumour control, here are the facts...
16 comments
Like
21 likes
Hi there folks!
Just a quick update as to where we are with something we can show.
So we have been busy making the Hard Plastic Version of AvP: The Hunt Begins ready for retail. Here are some comparison shots of the detail you will be getting as Kickstarter backers (the Blue Resin models) against the detail on the Hard Plastic models (Orange Resin models) which will be in the retail release. Obviously, those plastics will come on a sprue and in grey Styrene-plastic like popular model aircraft, tanks, intergalactic power-armoured marines, etc!
As you can see, we have saved a lot of the surface detail, using an incredibly advanced system, but have had to reduce (or even remove, like the skulls on his belt) the actual detailed elements such as weapons, facial detail, etc.
Okay, well that's it for this week folks, next week we will hopefully have some more exciting news.
We hope this gives you an actual, physical idea of the difference between your exclusive copies and the retail release.
But, hard plastic looks pretty good as well, that webbing effect would have given producers nightmares at one time.
Guessing they are aiming for a toy store release with these plastics? You would have thought Fox will be keen to push these are far as possible in terms of points of sale.
Visceral_Mass wrote: Does that most recent update confirm that the retail release will not have one piece ready to play figures in it?
not necessarily,
even if they are going for polystyrene sprue'd plastic they could still be planning to assemble it at the factory rather than ask the gamer to build the stuff themselves
(although I do think it's more likely some assembly will be needed)
Visceral_Mass wrote: Does that most recent update confirm that the retail release will not have one piece ready to play figures in it?
not necessarily,
even if they are going for polystyrene sprue'd plastic they could still be planning to assemble it at the factory rather than ask the gamer to build the stuff themselves
(although I do think it's more likely some assembly will be needed)
Initially they said one piece for the retail version, I suspect they've changed their minds. Multi-piece figures may hurt their sales to the board game crowd, but maybe sales to miniature gamers will make up for it.
Nice one mate, that looks cool. Is that deadzone terrain?
I see its damaged, how about geting different sized drill bits and drilling holes in the floor in patches, then pouring on some plastic glue to simulated alien acid blood spatter?
Sheep wrote: Nice one mate, that looks cool. Is that deadzone terrain?
I see its damaged, how about geting different sized drill bits and drilling holes in the floor in patches, then pouring on some plastic glue to simulated alien acid blood spatter?
Yep, Deadzone. I got a few of the big boxes.
As for the damage, the damaged tile sections actually have a few bits here and there that really do look acid-eaten. However, as the project continues, I'm going to be "dressing the set" so to speak, by adding additional damage, crates, debris, barricades etc.
Visceral_Mass wrote: Does that most recent update confirm that the retail release will not have one piece ready to play figures in it?
not necessarily,
even if they are going for polystyrene sprue'd plastic they could still be planning to assemble it at the factory rather than ask the gamer to build the stuff themselves
(although I do think it's more likely some assembly will be needed)
Initially they said one piece for the retail version, I suspect they've changed their minds. Multi-piece figures may hurt their sales to the board game crowd, but maybe sales to miniature gamers will make up for it.
As someone going for the retail release, I hope they are on sprue/unassembled in Hard Plastic. It gives more options for conversion and cross-compatibility with other ranges, and should be cheaper as well, which will make building an army for the eventual Wargame variant easier for the buyer (and for Prodos, as they can just recycle the sprues for unit boxes).
It depends. The initial retail release looks like it will be the same as the KS release (resin minis) as they use up the excess they are getting printed while they still work out the plastics.
They've said they want both of those out by Christmas.
No word on when the plastics will be done to resource the 'real' retail release.
New update, looks like multi part spues is what they are going to go with:
Update #74
Sep 26 2014
This is rumour control, here are the facts...
Comment
Like
3 likes
Hi there folks,
Sorry for the radio silence last week, we were a little pre-occupied and had little to report on. However, we can confirm that the first sprue is ready for tooling! Anyone who knows about plastics will tell you that this is a long process that can be made longer by small issues, however, we are working with the folks at Plastic Soldier Company to make some truly fantastic sprues for you.
Here are the results of the first sprue!
Also, we have a new group on Facebook for AvP: The Hunt Begins fans. We will be lurking there, so will get involved in conversations here and there, but our time is pretty limited, so it is more for you guys to talk and for us to update you with little sneak peeks!
Anything we upload there, we will try and ensure it is uploaded here on Kickstarter, on Bell of Lost Souls GameWire, Twitter and a variety of other portals we usually use.
Anywho, here is the link!: https://www.facebook.com/groups/829340957162333/
So, the Young Bloods and Terrain Tiles are on the horizon and we are getting somewhere in terms of testing our clear cast resin. There may be no update tomorrow, but we will try and update you as soon as we can if not.
Thanks again and have a great weekend!
Prodos Games LTD
Visceral_Mass wrote: Does that most recent update confirm that the retail release will not have one piece ready to play figures in it?
not necessarily,
even if they are going for polystyrene sprue'd plastic they could still be planning to assemble it at the factory rather than ask the gamer to build the stuff themselves
(although I do think it's more likely some assembly will be needed)
Initially they said one piece for the retail version, I suspect they've changed their minds. Multi-piece figures may hurt their sales to the board game crowd, but maybe sales to miniature gamers will make up for it.
As someone going for the retail release, I hope they are on sprue/unassembled in Hard Plastic. It gives more options for conversion and cross-compatibility with other ranges, and should be cheaper as well, which will make building an army for the eventual Wargame variant easier for the buyer (and for Prodos, as they can just recycle the sprues for unit boxes).
Is there a date for the retail release yet?
The only problem with that is there are far more boardgamers who would have been willing to buy a boardgame ready to play, then there are hobbyists wanting to buy a game with figures they can customize.
In other words, Prodos is ignoring a huge potential market if they don't make the game more accessible to boardgamers.
The only problem with that is there are far more boardgamers who would have been willing to buy a boardgame ready to play, then there are hobbyists wanting to buy a game with figures they can customize.
In other words, Prodos is ignoring a huge potential market if they don't make the game more accessible to boardgamers.
Yep. And if they make the sprues available separately they'll kill game sales among the hobbyists/miniatures gamers.
Bit of a pointless update given KS backers aren't getting the plastic and yet they are posting renders of stuff not seen on facebook (I know these probably need final approval but they are making them public). Also mentioned on facebook was that the rules (minus a few bits that need approval) should be available in a few days.
Joyboozer wrote: Why are we, the kickstarter backers, being told the plastic sprue company is making fantastic sprues for us?
Because when you buy your retail copy to supplement your KS copy you'll know what to expect?
Sorry, I'm guessing they are just proud of the sprue design and wanted to show them off, and since they didn't feel they had anything KS relevant to add to the update, that is what we got.
I was confused, but if you look at the Predator spear, it's the more detailed version of the resin model they showed, not the simpler plastic one, so I guessed it might be on sprue resin (like Finecast) as opposed to plastic, but I don't know if the plastic company makes that.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
xowainx wrote: I was confused, but if you look at the Predator spear, it's the more detailed version of the resin model they showed, not the simpler plastic one, so I guessed it might be on sprue resin (like Finecast) as opposed to plastic, but I don't know if the plastic company makes that.
Visceral_Mass wrote: Does that most recent update confirm that the retail release will not have one piece ready to play figures in it?
not necessarily,
even if they are going for polystyrene sprue'd plastic they could still be planning to assemble it at the factory rather than ask the gamer to build the stuff themselves
(although I do think it's more likely some assembly will be needed)
Initially they said one piece for the retail version, I suspect they've changed their minds. Multi-piece figures may hurt their sales to the board game crowd, but maybe sales to miniature gamers will make up for it.
As someone going for the retail release, I hope they are on sprue/unassembled in Hard Plastic. It gives more options for conversion and cross-compatibility with other ranges, and should be cheaper as well, which will make building an army for the eventual Wargame variant easier for the buyer (and for Prodos, as they can just recycle the sprues for unit boxes).
Is there a date for the retail release yet?
The only problem with that is there are far more boardgamers who would have been willing to buy a boardgame ready to play, then there are hobbyists wanting to buy a game with figures they can customize.
In other words, Prodos is ignoring a huge potential market if they don't make the game more accessible to boardgamers.
Will assembly really put boardgames off? Its not like it's hugely labour intensive.
Looks like they're going with sprued plastic anyway.
Will assembly really put boardgames off? Its not like it's hugely labour intensive.
Looks like they're going with sprued plastic anyway.
Yes. Spend time on BGG, assemble of more than a couple of parts, especially if it needs glue (not snap fit) will turn a large portion of the board game crowd away. They want something they can open the box and play.
David tribute mini looks nice (is he some kind of android?)
The terrain renders as well.. I'm waiting for this to be released, and for someone to go absolutely mental by completing re-creating Hadley's hope completely to scale, or some such like..
Hey guys, does anyone know if the Weyland-Yutani Commandos are going to be in hard plastic or resin? How long until they're released in either form? And is it better for me to go for a 10 pound pledge on the Prodos games site and then pitch in the rest for a set of these, or just wait for retail? Am I still able to pledge on the Prodos site?
I want to use these guys as Briscards for Ariadna Infinity dudes. They look so damn awesome!
They will be resin. Only the components of the main game box will be plastic, and allegedly the resin versions will also be available, just not inside the eventual real retail version.
Ok cool. From the Pledge Manager at the shop the 10 pounds is for the rules and a thank you in the main book, can't be put towards miniatures, so I will wait until these become available online to buy. Thanks guys, appreciated!
Edit: I forgot to ask, how much are the Commandos, and how many to a pack? 5 I am guessing? 3 Riflemen, 1 Flamethrower and 1 Machine-gun?
Let me start by saying, Wow! We did not expect such a divided response last week from the Plastics!
We think, as many of you do, that it is important to share with our backers, how we are progressing in all aspects of AvP. We had nothing else to share, so we shared that. We felt it shows that we are serious about continuing with the project after the Kickstarter has shipped. Those plastic sprues will NOT be what you guys receive, but will be what the retail versions of AvP will be like in 2016. Obviously making these plastics is expensive and takes time.
As for the Facebook page, we know it has also divided you, but the reason we made it is for fans to comment on stuff and discuss things between each other. We use Facebook on a daily basis for our work, to contact clients and retailers, so it is easy for us to quickly show sneak peeks. We will continue to share ALL that information here on a weekly basis; as I am doing today.
So the key question, as ever, is when is it shipping. The simple answer is that we want it to ship at the end of October, though more likely now the beginning of November. The hold up is that Fox are still reviewing the written material elements. We have no idea why it has taken the time it has, nor can we do anything to speed it up.
The whole team would like to thank one backer in particular, who saw and understood the tireless approach we have taken to developing this product and Warzone Resurrection, so kindly sent us a signed picture of Hicks! How awesome is that! So thank you to Colin James for your generosity. We will be sure to reimburse you one day!
Okay, so onwards and upwards!
Many of you have asked if we will do painting guides, the answer is yes! In both the Boardgame rulebook and also the 'Alien vs Predator: The Hunt Begins - Unleashed! Rules.
Here's an example of Edwin's masterful painting...
Some of you have also asked about Acrylic, laser cut, plastic templates. We would love to make these, but again, until we have an idea approved, we cannot confirm it. We do hope to make them though. Same goes for resin bases to match the tunnels.
Speaking of which...
Here are the renders and first prints!
Finally, remember Dave Chase? Well, we have still not had full approval for his design, but we thought you might like to see the CONCEPT for him. I know this is not necessarily part of your pledge, so I hope you don't mind us showing it...
So, we hope that has satiated your lust for knowledge, we hope to show the Young Bloods, Clear Predators and, as stated on the Facebook group, the basic rules of the game soon!
Bearing in mind that he hasn't received approval from Fox yet, Prodos are just showing the concept here.
It doesn't sound like the kind of thing they would not approve though considering the circumstances, as Jake says I should imagine it will get added at a certain level in the Kickstarter.
Agreed - I'm not sold on them at the moment, but there's more to come. Prodos left this comment earlier...
the resin tiles are the same size as cardboard ones, otherwise you would not be able to use them with the AvP Board game rules. Other elements are as well included in the pack (cocooned models are separate elements that can be added to any tile (otherwise you would get a copy of the same tile with the cocooned model in the same place)
Automatically Appended Next Post: Evolution of the terrain...
I suppose there's logic behind the decision- waist high walls make it easier for you to access the models you want to interact with, without knocking the tiles around while you're doin it.
They're a bit less than waist high if I am looking at the pictures correctly.
Again, they look nice, and I'm sure some folks will paint them up and make them look great. But for over $200 bucks, they are just look too flat due to the short walls to be worth it in my opinion. They don't add enough to make it worth replacing the tiles. And if the original quantity is still accurate, you really need two sets, so about $450 worth to replace the printed tiles.
You could probably use DeadZone terrain from Mantic to build a layout a lot cheaper if you wanted the 3D look. That or have gone with some of the card terrain that has been on KS over the last year or two.
Are the predators the only thing they are doing in injection plastic from this campaign? I would really like some decent sci-fi troops in injection plastic.
Gallahad wrote: Are the predators the only thing they are doing in injection plastic from this campaign? I would really like some decent sci-fi troops in injection plastic.
Eventually, all the figures in the retail version will be in plastic (three predators, 5 marines, and 15 Aliens (10 infant/5 stalkers).
Then saw this comment, looks like it was posted ~13hrs ago... (wish they'd spend more time on the KS comments section ...)
Rob Alderman: Some news tomorrow regarding the scenery. We have read enough comments to grant the need for change.
No update today as I have had to prepare to travel over to Poland.
Gallahad wrote: Are the predators the only thing they are doing in injection plastic from this campaign? I would really like some decent sci-fi troops in injection plastic.
Eventually, all the figures in the retail version will be in plastic (three predators, 5 marines, and 15 Aliens (10 infant/5 stalkers).
Cool, thanks for the info. I'll look forward to it.
Then saw this comment, looks like it was posted ~13hrs ago... (wish they'd spend more time on the KS comments section ...)
Rob Alderman: Some news tomorrow regarding the scenery. We have read enough comments to grant the need for change.
No update today as I have had to prepare to travel over to Poland.
Good to see they took the feedback! Taller walls would mostly do the trick...
Hope you can make a really good job of weathering it and making it look really ancient.. you can imagine a Predator up there with a staff knocking aliens off that are scaling the sides.
I want this soooo badly, please hurry Prodos (or.. actually, it sounds more like Fox!)
The latest update:
Update 76:
Hi there folks,
It's Rob here, just for a quick update as today is actually part of my pre-booked post-Essen holiday. I return properly to work tomorrow, but Jarek thought today is Friday... All very confusing!
In any case, the boss promised it, so here I am, making the update for you!
So, as many of you have likely already seen, we took our sample copy of AvP to Essen Spiel in Germany, so that the huge number of backers that attended the show could see it physically. Suffice to say, there was a lot of interest and understanding in the process we went through. It was nice to talk to so many folks and I hope everyone is happy with what they have seen!
The best place to get some good pictures from the show that I have seen so far is from Brueckenkopf. It is a German language news portal that is truly excellent!
http://www.brueckenkopf-online.com/?p=124136
Obviously, the copy we had was a pre-production sample. The tiles will be of a higher quality and the box itself has changed slightly in terms of design. Below illustrates what I mean.
Now, I have read some comments that some of you do not understand why we have changed. The previous version did not fit perfectly with the rest of our range for retail release and the Fox logo was represented in a manner that they do not like. This box meets the requests they have made for change, but still requires final approval.
Echoing my comment in the comments section yesterday, here is what we are waiting on.
- Rulebook (Rules Text)
- Rulebook (Story Text)
- Rulebook (Descriptive Text)
- Alien vs Predator: The Hunt Begins (Board Game Box)
- Alien vs Predator: The Hunt Begins (Tokens and Markers)
- Alien vs Predator Expansion Sets (Boxes for Add Ons such as the Queen, Powerloader, Hellhounds, etc).
If there is anyway to speed it up, we will do. Jarek has been calling Fox once a day and has made it very clear how important it is for the most brisk approval time possible (which we believe it has been and still is, of course). We had hoped (perhaps naively) that it would have been all approved during our time at Essen Spiel, but apparently not... I'll repeat our earlier sentiments of that we want to ship this as soon as possible. Sitting on it all and doing nothing costs us time and money. We missed out on a huge opportunity at Essen Spiel, we will be missing out on the opportunity this weekend at a show in Poznan and also next weekend at Crisis in Antwerp and Malta Comics Expo. We want to be the best of the best in the industry and we will be, as soon as we have access to start shipping, printing more and selling this product line in addition to Warzone Resurrection and our future endeavors.
We are now considering splitting shipments, to ensure that some of the models are at least shipped out to you guys. This will likely not include the Board Game and AvP: The Hunt Begins Unleashed rulebook, due to the constraints we are suffering from the approval process.
If we do go with split shipments, it will be our last resort. Please understand that we have suffered some truly terrible results in our Warzone Resurrection Kickstarter due to split shipments and that is a large reason why we decided not to do this for AvP. In the Warzone Resurrection Kickstarter, we had multiple shipments go to the same people, missed shipments, several shipments for missing parts and a nightmarish amount of paperwork. We really want to keep this Kickstarter as simple as possible.
However, more importantly, we really want you guys to get at least the most of your order in your hands before Christmas.
Of course, if we do decide to split the shipments, this will be on us, not you guys. You will not need to pay a single penny! We will likely start with the largest shipments, if we do go with it. Please wait for us to confirm with Fox that this is the approach we are taking.
Thanks again for your support!
PRODOS Games LTD
That also looks like a confirmation of the one player mode also from the front of the box there..
AARRRGGGHHH... Just chuck it in a plain brown cardboard box will ya and post it - I'm just in it for the models... I already have Space Hulk, so I have rules and corridor tiles - I just want me those resin goodies sitting idly in your stockroom !!!
Want it now
Frustrating update, but glad they posted it. Hurry up FOX...
Cheers Ruglud. I really wish I had of pledged for this instead of Sedition Wars, but I think a lot of people are going to feel that way. Good stuff, thanks!
Fenriswulf wrote: Cheers Ruglud. I really wish I had of pledged for this instead of Sedition Wars, but I think a lot of people are going to feel that way. Good stuff, thanks!
They didn't run at the same time....not by a long shot....
#77
This is rumour control, here are the facts...
Posted by Prodos Games Ltd
Hi guys,
Thank you so much for waiting on this one, it has been a truly hectic few weeks here at Prodos Towers...
From moving UK office nightmares, to me (Rob) travelling from the UK, to Poland, to Germany, to the UK, to France, to Belgium, to France and finally back to the UK... Between all that, we have kept tabs of what you have all been wondering about, but also just made sure we present it all when we have found the best time to really think about what we are saying here.
So here it goes!
First and foremost, a HUGE thank you to all that visited us at Essen Spiel and Crisis in Antwerp. Both fantastic shows and we met some truly awesome Kickstarter backers. It always brings goosebumps to my arms whenever I get to talk to you folks and I know my boss, Jarek, and all the other employees here are exactly the same so once again... THANK YOU!
We had the game prototype on display at both shows and it was received incredibly well, of course, it IS a prototype so yours will look different, but aesthetically and in terms of quality it will be roughly the same. In fact the actual material of your tiles, books, cards, etc will be higher. I've nicked some photos from the German blog 'Brueckenkopf' who are fantastic guys!
We also have an event to announce at WAYLAND GAMES in Essex, in the UK. We will be taking this game, for the first time, to the UK where you will be able to try it out with me and some of the Crusaders! Unfortunately we do not think the game will be available there, but I am sure the guys at the shop will be happy to add you to a mailing list where the information for release will be made available. CLICK THE IMAGE FOR MORE INFO
Okay so onto some things we said we would provide but have not. I have had clearance to explain where we are.
Predator Youngbloods - Printed, started mouldmaking, realised the elements are too thin and they do not 'fit in' with the rest of the Predators due to being from another sculptor. They are being fixed right now, but will be 100% ready in time for shipment. That is no issue at all.
Clear Resin Predators - Our supplier stopped making the resin we wanted to use, and could only supply one with a setting time that did not suit our process (the one that eliminates air bubbles). We have finally sourced one and the first tests are being made now. If this goes properly, then there will be no issue. We will also be buying in bulk to ensure the same mistake doesn't happen!
3D Tunnels - Okay, we showed you guys and you didn't like it. It just wasn't cinematic enough. With that in mind, we are making them slightly taller, so that there is more 'depth' to them.
That brings me nicely onto the point of rules. You will have the basic, stripped down, rules on Friday the 14th of October. The final approval did not go the way we wanted it to and we have had to make some changes to the storyline, this means all AVP related 'fiction' must be removed from the rules before we share them with you. However, we do not think this will take longer than a week to resolve. If we can post them earlier, we probably will.
Jarek has made the ultimate decision that this Kickstarter is going to ship in waves. Everybody will receive the Board Game first. Then we will move onto add ons. The Board Game will ship to retailers at the same time as Kickstarter backers. This might mean that you get your copy a few days before your FLGS or perhaps a few days after, but we intend to make sure wherever we can that Kickstarter backers get theirs first. If we get approval on the Fiction within 3 weeks, then we will ship before Christmas, otherwise, it will be after Christmas. So there it is folks! Thanks again for all of your support and we have no grand plans for the next few weeks, so updates should be back to normal regularity.
Have a great weekend!
PRODOS Games LTD
Some interesting points right at the end there.
Photos in the update are all ones that we have seen before in this thread and in N&R, I believe.
Got excited when i read waves then almost flipped the table over when i saw the box games is going out first im only in for a crap load of marines so looks like I've got a wait
BACKERS take priority, what Rob meant is IF we get an approval on plastic (which, I believe, with this level of hard labour from them) will be long after the Xmas 14 or maybe even 15..., thus, effectively plastic retail version will be shipped long after the KS one. I hope this clear it.
Delcroix Michael, You have backed one Kickstarter in the past. I am afraid this is a fairly common issue with Kickstarter.
We value every single one of our pledgers and will do everything we can to ensure that your pledge is sent before retailers. As Jarek suggested, I misunderstood what he is saying. Kickstarter will ship BEFORE retailers.
The project is not too big for us. The project is arguably larger than Fox understood, hence the delay.
Thanks.
Rob
Thanks for your comments, two cents from me, it is not in our hands at this stage. We, same as you have to wait patiently and bang our head against a brick wall, as we have product (models) sitting on the shop floor collecting the dust atm..... really slagging Prodos off won't change anything. We still don't know what from the fluff point of view needs to be changed... and we will know once they finish with 177 pages document. Thanks.
and we don't know why the hell this process is taking so long.
Rules in PDF, no extra cost for shipping, Prodos will pay the bill for that.
Some reasonably annoyed backers following the 'update' !!
I think Prodos is getting the raw deal if they're telling the truth, its not their fault that Fox has no clue how to manage their end of the deal here.
chaos0xomega wrote: I think Prodos is getting the raw deal if they're telling the truth, its not their fault that Fox has no clue how to manage their end of the deal here.
And yet, they still haven't completely worked out the clear resin for cloaked Predators, the terrain, and so on. There are definitely aspects Fox is holding up (though we don;t really know how long it took Prodos to submit items like the rules for approval nor how responsive they were when told to make changes) BUT there are items Prodos is responsible for that they are also behind on. Seriously, they are just now realizing the Youngbloods (which folks have been clamoring to see for a year) are not able to be cast? That has nothing to do with Fox.
Prodos has made some other decision that I doubt were due to Fox, such as the decisions to promise updates and then go silent.
I also don't recall Fox running the KS. Prodos did. They may have bitten off more than they can chew, but that would not be Fox's problem.
To quote Dad's Army: "Don't Panic! Don't Panic!"...
Everything is complete in terms of models except for:
Young Bloods
Clear Resin Predators
3D Resin Corridors
We have shown photographs of everything else.
Wave 1, we will announce when we know what is happening with Fox.
No models are in design, all have been designed.
We do not blame Fox for anything, it is a working relationship. The delay, however, is due to approval times. Nothing else.
We come clean every time we update. Nothing is hidden.
I hope that clears things up for you.
Rob
Prodos Games Ltd about 6 hours ago
@Nick Robinson: As far as I know, we have the largest resin manufacturing facility in Europe. There will be no issue getting the Young Bloods done in time. We will simply make more moulds for them than we usually would and run them 24 hours a day.
*Excluding the one in Nottingham we all know about, but cannot name!*
To my knowledge the "unnamable" facility in Nottingham isnt all that large, at least not anymore now that GW is trying to abandon finecast (and the FW shop is pretty small as well).
As for the stuff theyre having difficty with (clear predators and youngbloods) those couldnt enter production until Fox gave approvals, how could they know there would be issues if they did t have a go ahead to begin moldmaking, etc?
Facebook original comment: if your going to send in waves, do it in two instead of 3,or 4. going to send the board game around Christmas, and anything that is done, and approved. the rest hold for a 2nd wave. lets not drag this out. that way you will keep people some what happy.
Customer #1: Remember: they have your money already. This is no longer about your happiness. They will do what is best for them and the IP holder.
Rob Alderman: We do what is best for the customer, but also keep in mind we have to keep a business afloat and make sure we retain the license. If the customers are not happy, that can affect future sales, which is bad... It is always about the customer's happiness, but we have to achieve that within the realm of business practice.
I know it doesn't count for anything, but I'm genuinely offended to hear that you think we don't care about customer satisfaction; as if we are some care-free mass corporation... We sell toy soldiers! If we wanted to become a huge, faceless corporation, doing this would not be the way to achieve that goal. We just want to make awesome stuff that makes folks (gamers and fans like us) happy!
Ultimately you will get your product, you will get it when it is right, and any decision we make is one we have to make or one that will assist in the longevity of the product. Sure we could print it tomorrow (unapproved), ship it the day after, get sued, go bankrupt from legal fees and disappear off the face of the earth, but you would have your product...
Sorry to be utterly blunt, but I feel like that was required. We are only human - not unthinking, careless, corporate drones.
Customer #2: Rob Alderman, unfortunately you get these kind of "customers" as well. It may not mean much on the internet but rest assured there are those of us who know you or Prodos are aware of the struggles of a business these days. We also realise how you, Jarek Ever and the whole teams are working their socks off to give customers the best you possibly can.
Rob Alderman: It's not unfortunate, I think it's just misunderstanding. That could well be (and probably is) our fault for not recognising if we are being clear or not.
I appreciate the sentiment though
Customer #1: Rob Alderman I'm not concerned about my product, as long as I get it all eventually. I was stating a business reality. It's not that you don't care: it's that those whom have already paid eg me are lower right now on your business priority than the IP holder, who has the ultimate say in this endeavour, and your own business health. It's a reality that people should accept. People get high and mighty seemingly misunderstand how KS works. We are not investors with some say in how your business operates. Personally, I've donated my cash and now I'm happy to wait until eventually I get my product. Better late than never.
Rob Alderman: cheers dude, big misunderstanding on my part, so thanks. We do totally understand people's frustration, we just have to sit back and take it until we can do something about it.
Customer #1: I reread my original comment and fully appreciate that I wrote poorly.
There is a big contradiction in "The delay is due to approval times, nothing else" and "The young bloods were not cast-able and we don't have clear resin sorted out, and still need to figure out what we're gonna do for terrain".
And we have all the figures cast and sat here doing nothing but were not gona send them out untill we have sent the box game that doesn't use a quarter of the figures.
I would be useing this time to package up the pledges that include non box game stuff ready so that they can be sent the same time as the box game (that im guessing will be built and packaged at the manufactures? ) and then all they have to do is any that dont include one of the items thats being waited on can go out in the main first wave and any others in the second.
CptJake wrote: There is a big contradiction in "The delay is due to approval times, nothing else" and "The young bloods were not cast-able and we don't have clear resin sorted out, and still need to figure out what we're gonna do for terrain".
How is that a contradiction? The sculpt approval comes before the casting process, no? Are you criticizing for the sake of criticizing?
CptJake wrote: There is a big contradiction in "The delay is due to approval times, nothing else" and "The young bloods were not cast-able and we don't have clear resin sorted out, and still need to figure out what we're gonna do for terrain".
How is that a contradiction? The sculpt approval comes before the casting process, no? Are you criticizing for the sake of criticizing?
Because the pred sculpts were already approved. Getting clear resin sorted didn't need to wait on any approval, hell they could have used a WarZone sculpt to work the casting process and securing a source for the resin is sculpt agnostic. Young Bloods, at this point they should have had a damned good idea about what is and what is not castable via their process, again, Fox had nothing to do with that. Changing the terrain to something so different from what they showed as to have it panned by the KS backers was a Prodos decision attempting to make the terrain better align with tiles. Again, not a Fox thing.
I'm criticizing because they are not being completely honest, and I hate that.
I wonder if that is the whole set, or if there are multiples of any of those tiles. They do look cool, but maybe a bit plain. A Predator ship control room, with some of their tech evident would be cool.
Includes an entire Predator ship and the rules to play it in the Board Game, including 4 rooms, 12 corridors, environmental rules and missions for all 3 factions.
Prodos says they have been given to a proof reader, which is a good thing as just a quick scan of the first few pages i noticed several things which they need to tighten up.
Nice to finally see them though. It appears (from a VERY limited scan) they are including the 'war game' and 'board game' rules in the same document, or are at least referencing the war game rules in this document. That seems an interesting choice.
Aliens group effort to open a door
Marines sealing bulkheads/vents.
Crawling through vents (most likely to be lethal to marines)
Environmental buffs/nerfs such as Xenomorphs benefitting from infested corridors making it easier to hit them.
The infested and plain corridors giving one side a benefit makes a little sense. The mixed corridors giving each the benefit seems silly, if the effects basically cancel each other out what is the point in working them out? (though clearly I have not played them yet...)
And Predators not getting a benefit at all seems skewed.
Some comments on Facebook re: the Prodos AvP open day @ Wayland Games today...
Great day at Wayland testing the prototype game! Met some great people, saw some great games played! The board looks amazing, the models are fantastic and the missions rules add some great narrative I the game! Can't wait for this to come out now!
Didn't get to the talk, arrived late so talked to a few people whilst my brother and friend had a fantasy game.
It's all just what we've seen in images before but it was nice to see things in the flesh
Yeah it was good, the game works, which is nice. The preds are full on nails hard. The marines are masters of the aoe, my god flamers are mean! Xenos as youd expect are a bit naff, nut make up for it in numbers. The models, wow, even if theyre slightly worn from world travels, theyre amazing!
A video of the Q&A will also be going up on the AvP Facebook page and the Hairy Gamers YouTube channel later - apparently the chaps recorded it have around 45 minutes of footage
I would never expect xenomorphs to be naff, im a bit disappointed in the horde direction taken with them, considering that in the films a single xenomorph was usually enough to slaughter an entire squad or more of marines and could put up a decent fight against a predator.
Now that depends on what source you are going from though. The first film set the Alien as a practically indestructible thing from nightmare, it took the most extreme action possible to get rid of it.
Aliens changed the playing field a lot, their efficacy changes depending on whether they are fighting Hollywood A-listers or not.
From the brief look I've had in the PDF you are still in trouble if they get in close to you, which is as it should be. They're not a horde of grots that the other player laughs at as they are dispatching them on a 3+.
Facehuggers are also pretty nasty - Marines have to save against their 'Con' value, otherwise are insta-killed (roll a 9 or less on D20)
Courtesy of The Hairy Gamers - the videos of the Q&A are on Facebook but not YouTube yet so can't link here, but they have uploaded to dropbox... The full unedited video of the Q&A with Rob Alderman from PRODOS at Wayland Games in all its glory. The file isn't as good as the two part video but its there if anyone wants it. https://www.dropbox.com/s/d1yyga0pnndw0h9/PRODOS.mp4?dl=0
And some more images from them... (spoilered due to amount of images)
Spoiler:
Alien Egg Objectives on resin sprue Alien Queen Sprue in Resin The dice A stat-card for a Predator Warrior Predator Warrior data/stat cards Close up - Predator Warrior data/stat card Close up - Colonial Marine data/stat card Very early stages of an example game using the scenario from the rulebook.....showing the "blip"/ping counters Colonial Marine ping tokens Alien (Xenomorph) ping tokens
Many thanks again for posting all this stuff here Ruglud !
Some notes from the vid for anyone who hasn't watched
-Interesting about some of the Prodos/Fox relationship, with the Predalien going through 4-5 sculpts before reaching a version Fox was happy matched the source material.
- Cloaking predator pics are very, very near and they have sourced the resin they had run out of. The clear resin won't fog significantly with glue, can be varnished.
- All of the rules will be available freely from the Prodos website in PDF form as well as book release, inc. FAQs - Chronologically the game is set just after the movie Aliens; humanity knows of the xenomorphs existence, not really the Predator. The story is set on board the USS Theseus, a livestock ship that aliens get on board while the humans are in stasis (I guess accounting for the large numbers of aliens), the Predators then arrive presumably to hunt both the aliens and humans.
- Next step of the game is 'not on a spaceship', although the sales person wasn't free to talk about it.
- No new weapons or items in this game compared to what you have seen in the , everything is from the license and Fox.
I wonder what the attendance was like at the Wayland event, I'm pretty sure the date on the website was incorrect which probably didn't help..
The latest KS update said 'hoping for Xmas' in terms of the boxed game. I don't think that included any of the other stuff.
I think the clincher is waiting for Fox to approve the various bits and pieces, although looking at the rulebook that was released online that must still require some work in terms of publication.
I agree, the rulebook looked like it needs a lot more than just Fox approval. The did say it was being given to a pro proofreader. That will help some of the grammatical issues but probably not help game play issues.
I personally think they should have gone with a split book, one for the boardgame (which in turn would be in the eventual retail version) and one for the miniatures/war game instead of putting elements of both into a single book. Elements of the war game in the book they passed out just make a very long set of rules that much longer and more confusing to the boardgame crowd they could be courting with the retail version.
I thought there was a separate rulebook for the wargame?? Theres the "The Hunt Begins" rulebook in the box and there was a seperate "AVP Wargame Rulebook" stretch goal at 210k GBP which was a 25GBP add on.
Although I believe the chap in the video posted above said that they were concentrating on getting the board-game to release first. I would expect the wargame rulebook to come in a later wave of releases (just my own thoughts going on the comments read so far, might not be correct!)
Yes, there will (hopefully eventually) be a separate book.
I've messed up (Surprise!). They mention Unleashed (the wargame) in the manual and the cards will have stats for both, and those stats for unleashed are briefly explained in this book, but that is all. In my initial scan through the rules I confused Unleashed with the Advanced rules present in this PDF.
Rob Alderman: Infant Aliens are 30mm, not 40mm though, it turns out. As stated in update 65, base sizes were subject to change
Facebook user: Well that's news Rob - you might want to slip that nugget into this week's update - an awful lot of people have been ordering bases using that list as their reference.
Rob Alderman: Already stated that it is subject to change. Will mention it in the update when it goes up. At the end of the day, we cannot be held to blame for folks ordering bases from x, y or z. All I know is that Fenris told me he has never had to remake a mold quite so much as that!
*bother* it lets not try and be polite that is utter 
.JPG)
