Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game, Prodos loses license to AvP. p.266

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**Fenriswulf**

I am talking about having pledged for Sedition Wars at all

**Panic**

yeah,
I don't think this is the same!

I traded my copy of $165 BioHazard Sedwars and extras for a copy of $60ish FFG Horus Heresy.
And still feel like a winner!

Panic...

**CURNOW**

Mine went too a friends kid to paint ...basically made me hate studio mcvey after being a fan of mike for over 20yrs . Hope this gos better

**cincydooley**

I like the Sedition Wars models.

Quite a bit, honestly.

**CURNOW**

I loved the design just not the implementation or the material.

**b1soul**

Those predator models...lookin' good

**Andilus Greatsword**

Man that Berserker model is painted stunningly. I'm going to bust out my best painting abilities when they finally arrive on my doorstep.

**Pacific**

Latest update:

#77
This is rumour control, here are the facts...
Posted by Prodos Games Ltd

Hi guys,

Thank you so much for waiting on this one, it has been a truly hectic few weeks here at Prodos Towers...

From moving UK office nightmares, to me (Rob) travelling from the UK, to Poland, to Germany, to the UK, to France, to Belgium, to France and finally back to the UK... Between all that, we have kept tabs of what you have all been wondering about, but also just made sure we present it all when we have found the best time to really think about what we are saying here.

So here it goes!

First and foremost, a HUGE thank you to all that visited us at Essen Spiel and Crisis in Antwerp. Both fantastic shows and we met some truly awesome Kickstarter backers. It always brings goosebumps to my arms whenever I get to talk to you folks and I know my boss, Jarek, and all the other employees here are exactly the same so once again... THANK YOU!

We had the game prototype on display at both shows and it was received incredibly well, of course, it IS a prototype so yours will look different, but aesthetically and in terms of quality it will be roughly the same. In fact the actual material of your tiles, books, cards, etc will be higher. I've nicked some photos from the German blog 'Brueckenkopf' who are fantastic guys!

http://www.brueckenkopf-online.com/

We also have an event to announce at WAYLAND GAMES in Essex, in the UK. We will be taking this game, for the first time, to the UK where you will be able to try it out with me and some of the Crusaders! Unfortunately we do not think the game will be available there, but I am sure the guys at the shop will be happy to add you to a mailing list where the information for release will be made available. CLICK THE IMAGE FOR MORE INFO

Okay so onto some things we said we would provide but have not. I have had clearance to explain where we are.

Predator Youngbloods - Printed, started mouldmaking, realised the elements are too thin and they do not 'fit in' with the rest of the Predators due to being from another sculptor. They are being fixed right now, but will be 100% ready in time for shipment. That is no issue at all.

Clear Resin Predators - Our supplier stopped making the resin we wanted to use, and could only supply one with a setting time that did not suit our process (the one that eliminates air bubbles). We have finally sourced one and the first tests are being made now. If this goes properly, then there will be no issue. We will also be buying in bulk to ensure the same mistake doesn't happen!

3D Tunnels - Okay, we showed you guys and you didn't like it. It just wasn't cinematic enough. With that in mind, we are making them slightly taller, so that there is more 'depth' to them.

That brings me nicely onto the point of rules. You will have the basic, stripped down, rules on Friday the 14th of October. The final approval did not go the way we wanted it to and we have had to make some changes to the storyline, this means all AVP related 'fiction' must be removed from the rules before we share them with you. However, we do not think this will take longer than a week to resolve. If we can post them earlier, we probably will.

Jarek has made the ultimate decision that this Kickstarter is going to ship in waves. Everybody will receive the Board Game first. Then we will move onto add ons. The Board Game will ship to retailers at the same time as Kickstarter backers. This might mean that you get your copy a few days before your FLGS or perhaps a few days after, but we intend to make sure wherever we can that Kickstarter backers get theirs first. If we get approval on the Fiction within 3 weeks, then we will ship before Christmas, otherwise, it will be after Christmas. So there it is folks! Thanks again for all of your support and we have no grand plans for the next few weeks, so updates should be back to normal regularity.

Have a great weekend!
PRODOS Games LTD

Some interesting points right at the end there.

Photos in the update are all ones that we have seen before in this thread and in N&R, I believe.

**cincydooley**

As a super late jumper on, I have no problems with any of those things.

**Joyboozer**

I said the C word out loud and people looked at me.

**CURNOW**

Got excited when i read waves then almost flipped the table over when i saw the box games is going out first im only in for a crap load of marines so looks like I've got a wait

**Ruglud**

Some further comments from Prodos....

Prodos Games Ltd

BACKERS take priority, what Rob meant is IF we get an approval on plastic (which, I believe, with this level of hard labour from them) will be long after the Xmas 14 or maybe even 15..., thus, effectively plastic retail version will be shipped long after the KS one. I hope this clear it.

Delcroix Michael, You have backed one Kickstarter in the past. I am afraid this is a fairly common issue with Kickstarter.

We value every single one of our pledgers and will do everything we can to ensure that your pledge is sent before retailers. As Jarek suggested, I misunderstood what he is saying. Kickstarter will ship BEFORE retailers.

The project is not too big for us. The project is arguably larger than Fox understood, hence the delay.

Thanks.
Rob

Thanks for your comments, two cents from me, it is not in our hands at this stage. We, same as you have to wait patiently and bang our head against a brick wall, as we have product (models) sitting on the shop floor collecting the dust atm..... really slagging Prodos off won't change anything. We still don't know what from the fluff point of view needs to be changed... and we will know once they finish with 177 pages document. Thanks.

and we don't know why the hell this process is taking so long.

Rules in PDF, no extra cost for shipping, Prodos will pay the bill for that.

Some reasonably annoyed backers following the 'update' !!

**chaos0xomega**

I think Prodos is getting the raw deal if they're telling the truth, its not their fault that Fox has no clue how to manage their end of the deal here.

**CptJake**

chaos0xomega wrote:
I think Prodos is getting the raw deal if they're telling the truth, its not their fault that Fox has no clue how to manage their end of the deal here.

And yet, they still haven't completely worked out the clear resin for cloaked Predators, the terrain, and so on. There are definitely aspects Fox is holding up (though we don;t really know how long it took Prodos to submit items like the rules for approval nor how responsive they were when told to make changes) BUT there are items Prodos is responsible for that they are also behind on. Seriously, they are just now realizing the Youngbloods (which folks have been clamoring to see for a year) are not able to be cast? That has nothing to do with Fox.

Prodos has made some other decision that I doubt were due to Fox, such as the decisions to promise updates and then go silent.

I also don't recall Fox running the KS. Prodos did. They may have bitten off more than they can chew, but that would not be Fox's problem.

**Ruglud**

Prodos Games Ltd about 6 hours ago

Panic:

To quote Dad's Army: "Don't Panic! Don't Panic!"...

Everything is complete in terms of models except for:
Young Bloods
Clear Resin Predators
3D Resin Corridors

We have shown photographs of everything else.
Wave 1, we will announce when we know what is happening with Fox.
No models are in design, all have been designed.
We do not blame Fox for anything, it is a working relationship. The delay, however, is due to approval times. Nothing else.
We come clean every time we update. Nothing is hidden.

I hope that clears things up for you.
Rob

Prodos Games Ltd about 6 hours ago

@Nick Robinson: As far as I know, we have the largest resin manufacturing facility in Europe. There will be no issue getting the Young Bloods done in time. We will simply make more moulds for them than we usually would and run them 24 hours a day.

*Excluding the one in Nottingham we all know about, but cannot name!*

**chaos0xomega**

To my knowledge the "unnamable" facility in Nottingham isnt all that large, at least not anymore now that GW is trying to abandon finecast (and the FW shop is pretty small as well).

As for the stuff theyre having difficty with (clear predators and youngbloods) those couldnt enter production until Fox gave approvals, how could they know there would be issues if they did t have a go ahead to begin moldmaking, etc?

**Ruglud**

From the Facebook group

Facebook original comment:
if your going to send in waves, do it in two instead of 3,or 4.
going to send the board game around Christmas, and anything that is done, and approved. the rest hold for a 2nd wave. lets not drag this out. that way you will keep people some what happy.

Customer #1: Remember: they have your money already. This is no longer about your happiness. They will do what is best for them and the IP holder.

Rob Alderman: We do what is best for the customer, but also keep in mind we have to keep a business afloat and make sure we retain the license.
If the customers are not happy, that can affect future sales, which is bad... It is always about the customer's happiness, but we have to achieve that within the realm of business practice.

I know it doesn't count for anything, but I'm genuinely offended to hear that you think we don't care about customer satisfaction; as if we are some care-free mass corporation... We sell toy soldiers! If we wanted to become a huge, faceless corporation, doing this would not be the way to achieve that goal. We just want to make awesome stuff that makes folks (gamers and fans like us) happy!

Ultimately you will get your product, you will get it when it is right, and any decision we make is one we have to make or one that will assist in the longevity of the product. Sure we could print it tomorrow (unapproved), ship it the day after, get sued, go bankrupt from legal fees and disappear off the face of the earth, but you would have your product...

Sorry to be utterly blunt, but I feel like that was required. We are only human - not unthinking, careless, corporate drones.

Customer #2: Rob Alderman, unfortunately you get these kind of "customers" as well. It may not mean much on the internet but rest assured there are those of us who know you or Prodos are aware of the struggles of a business these days. We also realise how you, Jarek Ever and the whole teams are working their socks off to give customers the best you possibly can.

Rob Alderman: It's not unfortunate, I think it's just misunderstanding. That could well be (and probably is) our fault for not recognising if we are being clear or not.

I appreciate the sentiment though

Customer #1: Rob Alderman I'm not concerned about my product, as long as I get it all eventually. I was stating a business reality. It's not that you don't care: it's that those whom have already paid eg me are lower right now on your business priority than the IP holder, who has the ultimate say in this endeavour, and your own business health. It's a reality that people should accept. People get high and mighty seemingly misunderstand how KS works. We are not investors with some say in how your business operates.
Personally, I've donated my cash and now I'm happy to wait until eventually I get my product. Better late than never.

Rob Alderman: cheers dude, big misunderstanding on my part, so thanks.
We do totally understand people's frustration, we just have to sit back and take it until we can do something about it.

Customer #1: I reread my original comment and fully appreciate that I wrote poorly.

Rob Alderman: No harm done

**Sheep**

Well that's disappointing! Here I was thinking I'd get one of my kiickstarters before Xmas, I even worked some more on the terrain!

http://sheepsforlornhope.blogspot.com.au/2014/11/150-followers-and-more-terrain.html

**Joyboozer**

I think the more preparation you do for when you receive it, the further the date gets pushed back.

**Sheep**

I'll burn all my terrain so it turns up tomorrow then!

**Joyboozer**

Won't work, you're burning it in preparation of receiving it tomorrow, the Kickstarter gods control our fates!

**CptJake**

There is a big contradiction in "The delay is due to approval times, nothing else" and "The young bloods were not cast-able and we don't have clear resin sorted out, and still need to figure out what we're gonna do for terrain".

**CURNOW**

And we have all the figures cast and sat here doing nothing but were not gona send them out untill we have sent the box game that doesn't use a quarter of the figures.

I would be useing this time to package up the pledges that include non box game stuff ready so that they can be sent the same time as the box game (that im guessing will be built and packaged at the manufactures? ) and then all they have to do is any that dont include one of the items thats being waited on can go out in the main first wave and any others in the second.

**carboncopy**

CptJake wrote:
There is a big contradiction in "The delay is due to approval times, nothing else" and "The young bloods were not cast-able and we don't have clear resin sorted out, and still need to figure out what we're gonna do for terrain".

How is that a contradiction? The sculpt approval comes before the casting process, no? Are you criticizing for the sake of criticizing?

**CptJake**

carboncopy wrote:
CptJake wrote:
There is a big contradiction in "The delay is due to approval times, nothing else" and "The young bloods were not cast-able and we don't have clear resin sorted out, and still need to figure out what we're gonna do for terrain".

How is that a contradiction? The sculpt approval comes before the casting process, no? Are you criticizing for the sake of criticizing?

Because the pred sculpts were already approved. Getting clear resin sorted didn't need to wait on any approval, hell they could have used a WarZone sculpt to work the casting process and securing a source for the resin is sculpt agnostic. Young Bloods, at this point they should have had a damned good idea about what is and what is not castable via their process, again, Fox had nothing to do with that. Changing the terrain to something so different from what they showed as to have it panned by the KS backers was a Prodos decision attempting to make the terrain better align with tiles. Again, not a Fox thing.

I'm criticizing because they are not being completely honest, and I hate that.

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

It sounds like they thought they had a source for the resin (having bought it before),

but when they went order enough to do the casting they were told the particular sort they wanted was no longer being made

not a lot they could have done there, you don't expect a product to be randomly discontinued

**CptJake**

It has been months since they first alluded to problems with the first clear resin figures.

**Panic**

yeah,
Not panicing... yet...

this is on face book not sure if it's been posted here yet?

Looks very cool.

Panic...

**CptJake**

I wonder if that is the whole set, or if there are multiples of any of those tiles. They do look cool, but maybe a bit plain. A Predator ship control room, with some of their tech evident would be cool.

**Panic**

yeah,

Includes an entire Predator ship and the rules to play it in the Board Game, including 4 rooms, 12 corridors, environmental rules and missions for all 3 factions.

Panic...