With the removal of templates in new edition I just realised that we have to roll to hit with our guns now..

 thenewgozoku wrote:
With the removal of templates in new edition I just realised that we have to roll to hit with our guns now..

Well, it'll still scatter - and unlike now, scatters won't depend on BS. Anywayz, i hope we'll compensate with rof.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyone else tried SWA?

I will try a game of SWA next week. I will field yoofs with shoota, a big shoota spanner boy, a Nob with big choppa and boyz with buzz-choppas.

 JimOnMars wrote:

 davou wrote:
just confirmed, charging models get ALL of their attacks first.....

Were back

YES!

So, to make orks competitive, get some of the models known as "boyz" and give them the wargear called "choppas." Then put them in the MC-like vehicles known as "Trukks"...

Best comment ever


Automatically Appended Next Post:
AoS Orks are surprisingly fast when they have a leader around. I'm trying to guess how vehicles would work in Age of Calgar. Do we still get a bonus for having weaker open topped vehicles? Also maybe new buggy models? Speed could easily be the name of the game for Orks. Bikes, Trukks, Buggies, Trakks, Defkoptas, its starting to feel like 2001 all over again!! Choppas should be at least Rend -1 possibly -2 on the charge of Waaagh?

 thenewgozoku wrote:
I will try a game of SWA next week. I will field yoofs with shoota, a big shoota spanner boy, a Nob with big choppa and boyz with buzz-choppas.

Fair warning:

Shadow War is kind of great. Orks are a lot of fun to play

If you've never read it, check out Codex Armageddon 3rd edition supplement. The units seem expensive now but so was everything else in the game. I still have my copy at home. It's easily accessible in PDF format on google.

There wasnt any mention of it, but if vehicles no longer explode it will be a huge buff for orks too

I think I would actually miss exploding vehicles, it was a right and Orky thing to happen! Just having them breakdown is disappointing. Any game where I have a Trukk alive at the end just makes me sad.

 biggie_reg wrote:
I think I would actually miss exploding vehicles, it was a right and Orky thing to happen! Just having them breakdown is disappointing. Any game where I have a Trukk alive at the end just makes me sad.

I don't think exploding and whatnot will go away, though I have no reason for that necessarily. Just seems like something they would leave in, having stuff maybe happen when vehicles go down.

I'm interested in what's gonna happen to ramshackle? Would be great to have a cool ramshackle rule back, and to get it on more than just the one vehicle...

In AoS, there are some monsters that cause damage to those around them when they die. I wouldn't count on vehicles not exploding... or having a chance to explode at least.
*tongue firmly planted in cheek* Ork vehicles may explode on a 2+... marine vehicles only explode if you roll 2 sixes...

Reece just confirmed that he was one of the 8th ed playtesters, along with Frontline and the BAO / LVO crews.

Considering his opinion on Mob Rule, I am hopeful he was able to get it killed, or replaced with the old one or something else entirely.

No details, but podcast here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNuwHXXr3XQ

 JimOnMars wrote:
Reece just confirmed that he was one of the 8th ed playtesters, along with Frontline and the BAO / LVO crews.

Considering his opinion on Mob Rule, I am hopeful he was able to get it killed, or replaced with the old one or something else entirely.

No details, but podcast here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNuwHXXr3XQ

They've made morale work like Age of Sigmar - additional wounds for failed LD checks - so now EVERYBODY has mob rule, sort of!

Gorkanuat used as example in latest GW drop:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/25/warhammer-40000-unit-profiles/

It now "punches it's weight"!!!!!

And Confirmed: Initiative is gone.

NO

MORE

I2.

they also gave terminators 2 wounds! I wonder if meganobs will go up

3 wound MANZ? Honestly despite how awesome that would be I doubt it. The changes to charging make them fulfill a niche already as the melee TEQ, and unless all 2+ units get an extra wound the buff will probably just be on termies. It would be cool though!

 JimOnMars wrote:
And Confirmed: Initiative is gone.

NO

MORE

I2.

I'm torn between excitement, and fear that my life is now trying to catch 6" move units with my 4" move orks like some carnage-filled scooby doo bit.

 DaisyWondercow wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
And Confirmed: Initiative is gone.

NO

MORE

I2.

I'm torn between excitement, and fear that my life is now trying to catch 6" move units with my 4" move orks like some carnage-filled scooby doo bit.

If orks are dropped down to 4" movement and MEQ have 6" movement, then vehicles are probably going to be a necessity.

Do we know how charge distance will be determined?

 gnome_idea_what wrote:


If orks are dropped down to 4" movement and MEQ have 6" movement, then vehicles are probably going to be a necessity.

Do we know how charge distance will be determined?

or go, go stormboys!

 DaisyWondercow wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
And Confirmed: Initiative is gone.

NO

MORE

I2.

I'm torn between excitement, and fear that my life is now trying to catch 6" move units with my 4" move orks like some carnage-filled scooby doo bit.

Yeah actually getting an assault in our favor will be the new problem. We are still the "take losses, swing with powerklaw" army, Nob with Klaw will be more important.. oh how will challenges change I wonder.

Gorkanaught with a toughness value, can't wait to find out a melta does 10 wounds to models tagged with 'vehicle' and I'll still need six to field them

Wow this is so exciting! I can't wait for the new edition!

Every vehicle will have their own damage table, I'm foreseeing pretty fluffy tables for our vehicles

 JimOnMars wrote:
Gorkanuat used as example

It now "punches it's weight"!!!!!

This made my day

With them saying (and I paraphrase) "A lot of models are getting more wounds", I could totally see Meganobz getting 3 or maybe even 4 wounds.

It sounds like they're essentially creating an HP system, more than a Wounds system. Consider the Guile-dude has 9 Wounds- he's not going to be as tanky as a Rhino or Carnifex, not nearly, and so I could easily see those getting upwards of 18 Wounds. Trukks might stay around 10ish, but 'Nauts will probably be up around 30. And yes, Melta might get "Double wounds against Vehicles", but that'd still take a few shots to take down one of them.

Anvildude wrote:
With them saying (and I paraphrase) "A lot of models are getting more wounds", I could totally see Meganobz getting 3 or maybe even 4 wounds.

It sounds like they're essentially creating an HP system, more than a Wounds system. Consider the Guile-dude has 9 Wounds- he's not going to be as tanky as a Rhino or Carnifex, not nearly, and so I could easily see those getting upwards of 18 Wounds. Trukks might stay around 10ish, but 'Nauts will probably be up around 30. And yes, Melta might get "Double wounds against Vehicles", but that'd still take a few shots to take down one of them.

I agree. Guilliman goes from 6 (that was a lot) to 9. The dreadnought from 3 HP to 8 wounds. So I would say something like 3 wounds for nobz, 5 for bosses, trukks 8-10, etc.

I am optimistic. On the shadow wars armaggeddon I've been having a good time with da boys. I didn't focus on shooting just because I'm going for a kommando theme and with our numbers we can even take harlies on in combat. It actually a fairly evenish fight. Grey knights have been the hardest to fight for me yet but they are beatable and the only thing I don't like js the raid mission where vision is based off of initiative so basically if orks are defending you can lose without being able to even see the enemy even with the best possible dice rolls.

 JimOnMars wrote:
Gorkanuat used as example in latest GW drop:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/25/warhammer-40000-unit-profiles/

It now "punches it's weight"!!!!!

And Confirmed: Initiative is gone.

NO

MORE

I2.

I think they're finally, barely, admitting how colossally terrible the rules for Gorkanaughts were. Damn things bigger than the Stormsurge GMC but can still be one shotted by a lascannon.

 PipeAlley wrote:


I think they're finally, barely, admitting how colossally terrible the rules for Gorkanaughts were. Damn things bigger than the Stormsurge GMC but can still be one shotted by a lascannon.

Or immobilised by gravs.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/26/warhammer-40000-weapons/

Burna boyz are gonna do some work now!

 Nithaniel wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/26/warhammer-40000-weapons/

Burna boyz are gonna do some work now!

YESSSSS!

Id love to see how ranges work this time around.... Can you apply wounds to weapons outside of its max range? Does the whole squad need to be in range? Either way, looks like Battle wagon burnas are back in a big way

You're all invited to my next barbecue

Burnas can now burn everything even dreadnoughts

 thenewgozoku wrote:
Burnas can now burn everything even dreadnoughts

If they keep their power-weapon mode with the new save-reduction system, I think that would make them a bit more versatile too.

I guess the big shootas will deal 2 damages, that would be nice. But the D6 damage of the lascannon has be wondering, will there be lots of random damages numbers or more fixed ones? Rokkit does 3 damage or D3? 2+D2? :-O

I've all modified my big shootas on trukks for rokkit launchas. I guess big shootas will be as interesting as rokkits now.

 Jambles wrote:

 thenewgozoku wrote:
Burnas can now burn everything even dreadnoughts

If they keep their power-weapon mode with the new save-reduction system, I think that would make them a bit more versatile too.

Maybe, save -1 for troops, d3 wounds against vehicles? They used to get 2D6 AP. We'll see.

I have high hopes for flash gits

 thenewgozoku wrote:
I have high hopes for flash gits

Seems like even our 6+ t-shirt save will be useful now! I can see gitz getting a 4+ or 5+ save...

flash gits? I wanna see how big choppas work! If they have ANY kind of rend it will be a godsend

 davou wrote:
flash gits? I wanna see how big choppas work! If they have ANY kind of rend it will be a godsend

Maybe it'll be similar to Shadow War, and melee weapons that have S + User S will get a base Rend value? (S4 is -1, S5 is -2, etc.)
Hey maybe we'll get a Rend value on choppas that way? I miss the glory days of making Space Marines take 4+ saves against choppa boys

where are you sourcing all this juicy info?!

and come on burna boyz! ive converted loads of orks for awesome burna/kmb and flashgitz conversions and i cant wait to field them! ive never been so Orkcited!

Solar Shock wrote:
where are you sourcing all this juicy info?!

and come on burna boyz! ive converted loads of orks for awesome burna/kmb and flashgitz conversions and i cant wait to field them! ive never been so Orkcited!

It comes from GW itself! https://www.warhammer-community.com/

Now we need the blasts to autohit and even blastajet becomes playable.

 thenewgozoku wrote:
Now we need the blasts to autohit and even blastajet becomes playable.

Yep. Lobbas autohitting heavy 3 would be ok by me.

I'd like to field some burnaboyz more often too, they're among my fav models. I have 10 of them and only used them in a few friendly games with a big mek themed list.

And nobz with big choppas too, extremely cool models that I already use sometimes but with a rend they could be a serious alternative to power klaws.

I'm curious about flash gitz: with the absence of AP their weapons would change drastically. Maybe a D6 rend this time? They can be effective at last.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JimOnMars wrote:

 thenewgozoku wrote:
Now we need the blasts to autohit and even blastajet becomes playable.

Yep. Lobbas autohitting heavy 3 would be ok by me.

Why autohitting? They're not flamers, they should hit on a 4+. Heavy 3 is appropriate for replacing small blasts though.

I also spot the lower LD on the Space Marines and LD on the Dreadnaught. I wonder what that will mean for vehicles and our Boyz

 biggie_reg wrote:
I also spot the lower LD on the Space Marines and LD on the Dreadnaught. I wonder what that will mean for vehicles and our Boyz

I'm expecting Boys to have LD5. or 6 depends on how you look at it. Right now just using the SM Sgt's LD Orks are 2 points lower. So I'd expect to be about the same.

I'm really getting excited to see what my Gorkanauts will do next edition.

 Blackie wrote:
I'd like to field some burnaboyz more often too, they're among my fav models. I have 10 of them and only used them in a few friendly games with a big mek themed list.

And nobz with big choppas too, extremely cool models that I already use sometimes but with a rend they could be a serious alternative to power klaws.

I'm curious about flash gitz: with the absence of AP their weapons would change drastically. Maybe a D6 rend this time? They can be effective at last.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JimOnMars wrote:

 thenewgozoku wrote:
Now we need the blasts to autohit and even blastajet becomes playable.

Yep. Lobbas autohitting heavy 3 would be ok by me.

Why autohitting? They're not flamers, they should hit on a 4+. Heavy 3 is appropriate for replacing small blasts though.

I'm just used to my lobbas hitting things...even if it wasn't the thing they aimed at. I just hope they don't use straight ballistic skill, which will basically nerf them out of usefulness.

 JimOnMars wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
I'd like to field some burnaboyz more often too, they're among my fav models. I have 10 of them and only used them in a few friendly games with a big mek themed list.

And nobz with big choppas too, extremely cool models that I already use sometimes but with a rend they could be a serious alternative to power klaws.

I'm curious about flash gitz: with the absence of AP their weapons would change drastically. Maybe a D6 rend this time? They can be effective at last.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JimOnMars wrote:

 thenewgozoku wrote:
Now we need the blasts to autohit and even blastajet becomes playable.

Yep. Lobbas autohitting heavy 3 would be ok by me.

Why autohitting? They're not flamers, they should hit on a 4+. Heavy 3 is appropriate for replacing small blasts though.

I'm just used to my lobbas hitting things...even if it wasn't the thing they aimed at. I just hope they don't use straight ballistic skill, which will basically nerf them out of usefulness.

Man, between ammo runts and the barrage rules... I don't think I've ever really missed with my lobbas! They're almost TOO easy to hit with right now.

Falling Back is a thing, now. Strategy implications are interesting, no more slamming trukk boys into the gunline to tie them up while the battlewagons catch up. Gotta try to finish off whatever you're attacking on the charge.

The movement post was the least revealing from all the new edition posts

Well it revealed the falling back option, which does really change things. I want them to expand on their "advance" option though, very vague

 biggie_reg wrote:
Well it revealed the falling back option, which does really change things. I want them to expand on their "advance" option though, very vague

Gotta know if we can advance and still charge. I'd say probably not - but maybe we'll get a Waaagh move of some kind back to mitigate it?

I like the part that the close combat dedicated units will be deadly.

They also brought up the Gorkanaut specifically as being able to punch at it's weightclass. But what would it be comparable to? Dreads are much smaller so past them (hopefully), but Imperial Knights are probably a stretch. There are not really any other walkers to compare it with (maybe Wraithknight?) so I'm curious to what they mean.

Gorkanaut's Weightclass should include WraithKnights and Imperial Knights... we can hope.

Fall back will be interesting. You can't shoot or charge the turn you've fallen back. That will mean that your gunline opponent will need multiple units to deal with your 1. Give how relatively cheap our units are, we should have more units on the board than they do. Win for assault, I say.

 Anpu-adom wrote:
Gorkanaut's Weightclass should include WraithKnights and Imperial Knights... we can hope.

Fall back will be interesting. You can't shoot or charge the turn you've fallen back. That will mean that your gunline opponent will need multiple units to deal with your 1. Give how relatively cheap our units are, we should have more units on the board than they do. Win for assault, I say.

This rule is straight out of Age of Sigmar. Makes sense tacticaly. I can see SM's being able to shoot, assault normally.

I disagree with that about (x)orkanaughts.

The stompa should be on par with knights and other titans.

The (X)orkanaught should be the ork landraider... with punching arms and shooty bits. It should be scary and a centerpeice, but not taking bites out of titans for free. The stompa needs to points adjusted down so that its a viable take.

If the Stompa wants to be on par with WKs, one of them needs a large point shift. Stompas are too expensive and WKs are too cheap. They need (and hopefully will) change their point cost.

I think he meant Imperial Knights, not Wraithknights. Stompas should also be better than Imperial Knights as they are much larger.

yah, I meant imperial knights.

the 'naughts aren't meant to be titans or their younger brothers... They're supposed to be orky landraider equivalent type things. Dangerous, kinda slow moving, and with the potential of some hard/choppy units inside. Something you wont see spammed, but is still a threat.

The stompa is mean to be the 'oh crap kill it' capital piece for the ork army.

Not much ado about the psychic phase on our end. I guess we'll be getting that Smite power along with everybody else!

I'm really hoping they keep some of the cooler powers from our current list, Da Jump was always a blast And of course, it'd be great to see weirdboyz getting more powered up by being near other Orks...

As much as I'd like psychic powers to be chosen or at least have some set powers, Orks might be one of the factions where some randomness would be appropriate...

Wraithknight, imperial knight, storm surge and the 'naughts were released at about the same time. There are a lot of adjustments needed to get the info the same class.
I wonder how many people would take 2 morkanauts if they were as efficient as an imperial knight... much less a wraith knight (we all agree that they are too good for the price).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I like the simplicity of the AoS hero phase. GW twitter burst tau and necron psyched bubbles... no psychic powers for them. I'm sad that they don't seem to have put more heroic abilities in that phase.
Guess this means I'm going to need to start bringing old. Old Zogwart.

 Jambles wrote:
Not much ado about the psychic phase on our end. I guess we'll be getting that Smite power along with everybody else!

I'm really hoping they keep some of the cooler powers from our current list, Da Jump was always a blast And of course, it'd be great to see weirdboyz getting more powered up by being near other Orks...

As much as I'd like psychic powers to be chosen or at least have some set powers, Orks might be one of the factions where some randomness would be appropriate...

I'm pretty excited, I think we'll see more weirdboyz now. I think denying (with a psycher) will be more important. And that Smite spell? Wow!

I could totally see weirdboyz having +1 bonus to manifest a power if 10 boyz are nearby, something like that.

Regarding the Smite spell, it hits "the nearest unit". I wonder if LoS can be used against that, I guess not. MAWB on the front line tanking for the whole mob? Nahh.

Ashkayel wrote:

 Jambles wrote:
Not much ado about the psychic phase on our end. I guess we'll be getting that Smite power along with everybody else!

I'm really hoping they keep some of the cooler powers from our current list, Da Jump was always a blast And of course, it'd be great to see weirdboyz getting more powered up by being near other Orks...

As much as I'd like psychic powers to be chosen or at least have some set powers, Orks might be one of the factions where some randomness would be appropriate...

I'm pretty excited, I think we'll see more weirdboyz now. I think denying (with a psycher) will be more important. And that Smite spell? Wow!

I could totally see weirdboyz having +1 bonus to manifest a power if 10 boyz are nearby, something like that.

Regarding the Smite spell, it hits "the nearest unit". I wonder if LoS can be used against that, I guess not. MAWB on the front line tanking for the whole mob? Nahh.

Well if we get to choose which models to remove from the closest unit and/or still get 2+ LOS then guess who's bringing a ton of Boyz and grots!!

If Grots can hypothetically hurt anything, mine will be seeing the tabletop more frequently!

In AoS ork mages are very strong

I really can't wait to see the psychic powers, weirdboyz are practically never used because of them currently.

I saw the terminator stats and i wonder how will the stats for killa-kans will be now that they will have toughness.

Well, we know that Dreadnaughts have toughness, wounds, AND leadership. All of our Walkers will have those too. Hopefully, GW will just saddle Kans with low leadership and not feel the need add additional leadership affecting rules on them (and Orks in general).

 thenewgozoku wrote:
I saw the terminator stats and i wonder how will the stats for killa-kans will be now that they will have toughness.

Considering that dreadnoughts got 8 wounds I think the change from AV to T would be something like that:

AV10-11 : T6, 4+sv
AV12-13 : T7, 3+sv
AV14 : T8, 2+sv

2HP : 6W
3HP : 8W
4HP : 10W
5HP : 12W
.
.
,
12HP : 26W (Stompa )

Killa Kans may probably be: T6, 6W, 4 or 3+ sv. And with a Ld value, no more Cowardly grots rule, but a crappy Ld5 I fear.

Maybe BW would be buffed too, if they get T8 and 2+sv (but even 3+ would be ok) and 10W. No more weak sides with AV12-10 but a single T value, and I really hope it would be the T8 and not the T7 one, which is more likely though.

with T6 6W 4+ save would be a lot better than a termie.

 Blackie wrote:


Killa Kans may probably be: T6, 6W, 4 or 3+ sv. And with a Ld value, no more Cowardly grots rule, but a crappy Ld5 I fear.

Considering that they have moved to the AOS morale system this probably wont matter; it may be a bit of a hit against squadrons, but we can always take then in groups of 1 to mitigate that

I've got a question about SWA. Does Mob Rule make you crit on 5-6 and not fumble at all when you charge? Or only rolls are affected.

 thenewgozoku wrote:
I saw the terminator stats and i wonder how will the stats for killa-kans will be now that they will have toughness.

I'd predict kans are between mega nobs and deffdreds akin to centurions being between terminators and dreadnauts. However there is a pretty big gap between terminators t4, 2w 2+ and dreadnauts t7, 8w, 3+
So I predict kans are around t6, 4w, 3+, and dreffdread are around t7, 8w, 3+

I hope walkers becomes a thing in 8th seeing we have 4 very different sizes of those

Wow.. Imagine the narrow front of BWs getting us a T8 model.. and no crappy flanking to get AV12.

Kanz.. t6 6W 3+.. that's a 150 point model

EDIT- our trukk could have a lot to gain to, even if it is T5 4W 4+.. it would be a steal at 30 points

In the curent meta maybe, but with Lascanons that can one shot them...

Alkorus wrote:
In the curent meta maybe, but with Lascanons that can one shot them...

I feel that's about right... 1 lascannon blowing up a trukk about 1/2 of the time, but need a full 10 man tac squad firing bolters to do the same thing.

Sounds like it'll make specialization of greater importance. Everything will be technically able to damage everything else, sure, but if you want speed, you want specialization.

Hey guys (and gals),

I just had a pleasant thought.

We might get real deff rollas back!!

Happy Orking!

Tankbustas and Burnas that are highly specialised will be awesome.

Being able to shoot a pistol in close combat feels like we'll lose the +1 A for wielding a weapon and a pistol...

I hope not cause we will trade a 4+ attack with maybe rending for a non rending 5+ attack.

 thenewgozoku wrote:
I hope not cause we will trade a 4+ attack with maybe rending for a non rending 5+ attack.

Yeah. Thinking about it, replacing the +1A in close combat for a shot of pistol (in shooting phase) is a step back in making the game faster. The +1A was fast and fluffy, you could say. I don't see the point of replacing it with a shot in the shooting phase.

But if we keep the +1A and we can shoot in the shooting phase, then yes it takes more time but at least it makes the pistols stronger. But then again, since we charge in the assault phase, we won't be able to use our pistols in the turn we charge, only in the subsequent turns (if the opponent has not disengaged from combat). All in all it seems we won't be using that rule often. I wonder why they changed that...

Slugga boyz charging with their usual 4 attacks. On your opponent's turn, if he stays in close combat, he can shoot at you with pistols. Then on your next turn, if the combat is not over yet, you get to shoot at them in the shooting phase. Then attack them in the assault phase. Wow that seems pretty situational...

This benefit tac marines that also have pistols with their bolters or heavy/special weaponry

I mean I guess this would help our grots hit with S3 in melee? Which is ok I guess.

I hope that they don't add that in, it would slow the game significantly down for prolonged combats. And our Nobz would suffer from it as they hit harder in close combat. I want to use my tons of Nobz! They need to be useful!

So...if cover stacks with armor, then 'eavy armored ork boyz get terminator saves in cover?

That is bizarre. Nice, but bizarre.

 JimOnMars wrote:
So...if cover stacks with armor, then 'eavy armored ork boyz get terminator saves in cover?

That is bizarre. Nice, but bizarre.

Well, an 'eavy armored ork hidden behing a hill should be pretty tough to hit...

Also the fact that our vehicle weapons are assault means that they won't get the -1 penalty for moving.

Alkorus wrote:
In the curent meta maybe, but with Lascanons that can one shot them...

You're right but lascannons aren't scatter lasers or grav weapons, it's not that easy to spam them. And they're heavy weapons which means they can only snap fire if they move. Even with some lucky D6 rolls destroying 8 trukks would be tougher than now, that's for sure.

Battlewagons can become quite effective too, no more suffering from being shot at the weakest side. And if they get T8, 10W and 2+ save....

BW were expensive for a vehicle that got destroyed so easy

We get +1 inch on all our charge range, yay!

But lone koptas eating overwatch now need to 1) survive and 2) reach the enemy.

Not that bad.

Looks like we're even easier to kill than now with how cover is going to work.

At least overwatch is still 6s

Ashkayel wrote:
We get +1 inch on all our charge range, yay!

But lone koptas eating overwatch now need to 1) survive and 2) reach the enemy.

Not that bad.

No difference really from before, except for multiple overwatch on failed charges

GW seems to be hinting really hard that we will get something tomorrow.

Could it be....consolidating into combat?

I guess that we will get the cc rend mechanism

Saw mention that any S value can "damage" any T value. So orks might have a slight mathematical advantage with volume of attacks.

If it's like old Fantasy rules, the wound chart is going to just cap out on 6s- so even S1 against T10 will wound on 'lucky' sixes.

 thenewgozoku wrote:
I guess that we will get the cc rend mechanism

I think it would be cool if choppas were AP -1. The 3rd edition choppas modified armor saves and in AoS many infantry melee weapons have rend. Maybe that's going to be one of the primary ways they buff assault in this edition?

They might give Space Marines with chainswords AP -1 as well, as one common complaint I've heard is that Marine vs Marine close combat feels like a sad slap fight. Giving many Marines an AP weapon would make it a lot deadlier.

It can be like SWA that every str above 3 gives a - 1 to armour save

 thenewgozoku wrote:
It can be like SWA that every str above 3 gives a - 1 to armour save

But boltgun has no AP modifier and is S4 (I know you meant in close combat, but still).

If Big Choppas get any kind of armor save modifier, I'd call it a win. Would it be enough to make Big Choppa Bossnobs, or dare I say it, Nob units a viable option?

I don't think that there will be any hard and fast formulas for weapon profiles. I expect that there are enough levers and dials to turn, that the weapons will fit the fluff and the game needs quite well.
Choppas aren't likely to have AP. Big Choppas might (hope so, since I have so many AoBR nobs lying around). Very sure that Power Klaws will have AP -2 or -3. Killsaws should be something like AP -3.
It would be a shame if Chainswords were not AP -1 at least.

pile in moves can start new combats!!!!!

 davou wrote:
pile in moves can start new combats!!!!!

Yes, three inches at a time, unless end-of-combat pile ins exist, in which case it's 6"!!

I'm not sure this makes up for free disengage, though. It will still be hard to get through a thin front line wall without dying next turn, even if we can engage them all.

The second wave of attacks is still going to be where a lot of games are decided, methinks.

 Anpu-adom wrote:
Choppas aren't likely to have AP. Big Choppas might (hope so, since I have so many AoBR nobs lying around).

Not that it matters, but I think AoBR nobz are meant to be slugga/choppa nobz, not big choppa nobz. Looking at the two-handed big choppa nobz from the plastic kit, anyway. And the "two-handed" rule on the weapon. Of course even a WYSISWYG tournament might accept them as big choppas.

Yay I like the new Fight phase

Why multi-charge (and lose our +1S, if this still apply) when we can just engage them with a free +4" before we attack?

Ashkayel wrote:

 Anpu-adom wrote:
Choppas aren't likely to have AP. Big Choppas might (hope so, since I have so many AoBR nobs lying around).

Not that it matters, but I think AoBR nobz are meant to be slugga/choppa nobz, not big choppa nobz. Looking at the two-handed big choppa nobz from the plastic kit, anyway. And the "two-handed" rule on the weapon. Of course even a WYSISWYG tournament might accept them as big choppas.

Yay I like the new Fight phase

Why multi-charge (and lose our +1S, if this still apply) when we can just engage them with a free +4" before we attack?

There was no mention yesterday that multiple charges are disordered, so we may be ok anyway. It could very likely be required that all the boyz charge "forward" instead of moving to optimum positions for assaulting other units. If so, eating the extra overwatch might be worth it.

with this new version of pile in being able to drag in more combats I can see the return of the 30 strong boyz squads. I really hope for a ruleset that takes us back to the boyz before toyz mantra

 Nithaniel wrote:
with this new version of pile in being able to drag in more combats I can see the return of the 30 strong boyz squads. I really hope for a ruleset that takes us back to the boyz before toyz mantra

Personally I prefer trukk boyz to 30-boyz mobs so I hope our trukks will be able to survive T1. And if we could have our old S3 explosions back, that would be awesome!

I hope they won't nerf the units that are competitive in the 7ed (koptas, tankbustas, bikes, lootas, mek gunz, etc.)...

It's hard to tell yet but footslogging boyz can be less durable vs shooting with how cover is going to work now. Also, fighting a marine in cc will be a more difficult task as they can shoot their pistols at us. And stuff can just run away and boyz are left in the open to be shot at once again. It's too early to say - maybe we could get slingshotted by biker models. Currently, the faq killed this practice cause biker characters prevent boyz from WAAAGHing. It might change.

However, we might see more high str one-shot weapons now which makes footslogging boyz more viable compared to how they perform in the age of mid-str million-shot weapons. And i hope much less of "kill half the squad" magic powers that tend to pop up more and more often at the end of 7-th.

Manz and burnaboy missiles are gona be insane i predict.

 JimOnMars wrote:

 davou wrote:
pile in moves can start new combats!!!!!

Yes, three inches at a time, unless end-of-combat pile ins exist, in which case it's 6"!!

I'm not sure this makes up for free disengage, though. It will still be hard to get through a thin front line wall without dying next turn, even if we can engage them all.

The second wave of attacks is still going to be where a lot of games are decided, methinks.

The enemy can only move so far back and then do nothing for the rest of the turn. We may get shot but will probably be able to assault again. Besides we'll have our own guns to shoot at them behind the boys.

Shooting in every version of 40K, and most games, and real life, has advantages over CC. I wouldn't mind shooting the opponent with a kombination of Mek Gunz, Lootas, Bikers, and Shoota Boyz and basically use the Ork stat line as a deterrent to opponents charging us. So chargers get to hit first, so what?! 15 years of Int 2 means that I rarely ever struck first anyways.

Orks have always relied on extra durability in Toughness and sheer numbers to weather the storm of bullets and blades, then take their turn dishing it out. Can you imagine 15 Bikers shooting multiple twin linked overwatch in the opponents turn?

I'm going to miss my all time favorite tactic of piling on more Penetrating Hits on vehicles than they have HP each one counting as 2 wounds while multi assaulting some poor schmucks causing them all to take Ld 2 Morale checks. Now I guess we'll just have to kill me the first go around. "Opponent can't fall back if he's completely destroyed".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 koooaei wrote:


Manz and burnaboy missiles are gona be insane i predict.

Kombi-Skorchas, Kombi-Skorchas everywhere!

Footslogging boyz with heavy armor in cover might have a 2+ save if I read it right. Seems like a plan, take boyz, bring screening units.. kan wall?

Genuinely wondering what the power klaw profile will be

Yep. Sounds like June. I should have just enough time to get my walkers painted.

GW just posted Morale up.. seems morale will be every turn for any unit with casualties. So a block of thirty boyz loses 3 then fails morale terribly could result in another small handful of boyz gone. So large mobz with no save are out

Just thought of something.... They mentioned stats not being capped at 10..... Well mob rule used to say your LD is equal to the number of models you have, capped at ten

 Rismonite wrote:
GW just posted Morale up.. seems morale will be every turn for any unit with casualties. So a block of thirty boyz loses 3 then fails morale terribly could result in another small handful of boyz gone. So large mobz with no save are out

Without any word on what our racial morale rules will be, plus the bonus that exists in Age of Sigmar for units (+1 LD per stack of 10?), that might be a premature diagnosis.

As has been mentioned before, considering how pile-ins work now, not to mention the changes to AP and cover, we'll be getting into combat with more enemies more easily and making saves more often against small arms and the like. Bigger squads are going to be viable - and now you don't have to fear losing a handful of models to shooting and having the whole unit run, at worst it'll be a few more boys off the top.

I just realized I read it wrong the test is with one D6. So maybe not as bad as I thought.

 davou wrote:
Just thought of something.... They mentioned stats not being capped at 10..... Well mob rule used to say your LD is equal to the number of models you have, capped at ten

I'd like to think that GW will reward Ork players with a good mob rule this time, as compensation for 7e mob rule. So...leadership of 30 anyone? Suck it marines, with your lousy leadership 7....

 Rismonite wrote:
I just realized I read it wrong the test is with one D6. So maybe not as bad as I thought.

Not sure it's gona help when you loose 15+ boyz per turn and than another 10 to leadership.

And this stuff happens vs shooting too. At least everyone's got a taste of mob rule.

 JimOnMars wrote:

 davou wrote:
Just thought of something.... They mentioned stats not being capped at 10..... Well mob rule used to say your LD is equal to the number of models you have, capped at ten

I'd like to think that GW will reward Ork players with a good mob rule this time, as compensation for 7e mob rule. So...leadership of 30 anyone? Suck it marines, with your lousy leadership 7....

That would be hilarious. And if greentide stays... LD100 squads!

It's likely not gona work like that.

 koooaei wrote:
It's likely not gona work like that.

SHHH! let us dream!

I was thinking with how armour saves are going to work we as Ork players should get a good deal. Being an army which didn't have particularly easy access to stuff like invuns and FNP, armour modifiers should work in our favour. (assuming some importation of the fact we are a cheaper horde based army). So before where some marine termie had some sort of 2+/5++/5+FNP, hes now going to only have a 2+ with a modifier from whatever is shooting him and we are going to have the same, only we are cheaper and usually have far larger numbers in units.

Numbers can work against us though. The more models you loose in shooting and in assault - the more you'll loose in mob rule phase. So unless we get serious buffs in this regards, i don't see how hordes are gona work with how cheap and effective shooting is in 40k. That's not aos shooting, mind you. This system works in aos cause it mostly affects mellee - shooting is usually around the 12' mark. 24' guns are considered long-range. And casualties are way fewer. On the other hand, most 40k guns are 18-24'. And you'll quickly notice the difference between loosing models to battle shock when they're in cc and loosing models to morale every turn due to shooting. How hard can it be to kill 10 boyz with 6+ armor? Even with cover, they're gona be 5+ save, so durability vs bolters doesn't really change. And it, in fact, drops against heavier weapons like heavy bolters.

But once again, too early to say for sure. If prices and rules like rapid-fire remain the same as now, it could be quite easy to mow down footslogging hordes. Yep, there's a 6+ save vs basic weapons and vs small amounts of shooting, orks in the open are 1/6 more durable than now but if the enemy concentrates fire, ld checks are going to take their toll.

There have been a few hints that infantry will be better in this edition so I'm thinking the old mob rule will return in some fashion. Could even be if your unit numbers over x models you roll 2d6 for morale tests

 Nithaniel wrote:
There have been a few hints that infantry will be better in this edition so I'm thinking the old mob rule will return in some fashion. Could even be if your unit numbers over x models you roll 2d6 for morale tests

And summ them up if you're running ghazzy detachment!

Have you guys seen the latest rumours?

Hidden PK, yay!
3" move out of the transport, nay!
18" range at the game start, yay!
Fixed bases? I hope they'll make nobz have 32mm bases...

Ashkayel wrote:
Have you guys seen the latest rumours?

Hidden PK, yay!
3" move out of the transport, nay!
18" range at the game start, yay!
Fixed bases? I hope they'll make nobz have 32mm bases...

Those nafka rumors have been pretty much discredited; he even errated them on his own site to say so

 davou wrote:

Ashkayel wrote:
Have you guys seen the latest rumours?

Hidden PK, yay!
3" move out of the transport, nay!
18" range at the game start, yay!
Fixed bases? I hope they'll make nobz have 32mm bases...

Those nafka rumors have been pretty much discredited; he even errated them on his own site to say so

Ah, you're right. Thanks

I'm already converting my nobs to 32mm bases, it looks great

This whole bases controversy is baseless, if you ask me. I couldn't imagine being turned away for a game 'cause your bases weren't exactly correct, especially with all the recent changes to Space Marines and whatnot.

Wow. The detachments look cool.

The Brigade Detachment looks perfect for Orks, with 9 command points:

3-5 HQ
6-12 Troops
3-8 Elites
3-5 Fast
3-5 Heavy
0-2 Flyers
Dedicated Transports for everybody

I could easily see the 5-warboss list fitting here, with truck boyz or grots, 3 single deff koptas, 5 groups of artillery and a choice of elites.

Also, I wonder if battlewagons can now be dedicated transports for everybody instead of just nobs. 20 boyz in a bw might be very scary now.

The age of men is over.

The time of the Ork has come.

I guess MSU will be even better now, allowing you to unlock bigger detachments and get more command points.

Min squads of lootas, bustas in trukks, boyz in trukk, single koptas, single mek gunz, etc. Yay!

Unless they kill the MSU style by upping the min size of units...

 Jambles wrote:
I'm already converting my nobs to 32mm bases, it looks great

So did I, they look much better!

Nobs are made for 32mm or even bigger bases imo

I find that Orks generally don't fit on their bases well, their wide stance makes even regular Boyz' feet hang off the side some. And really a small increase to base size doesn't change much especially with blast templates being removed.

Do you guys think we'll get clans benefits? I don't understand how we don't have that yet!

If they give the Space Marines chapter benefits then I hope they give us klan benefits (or at least detachments that match the playstyle).

If they do clans, it would be something with the keywords. Bikers, Deffkoptas, and the like would have the Speed Freaks keyword, etc. You may see a benefit for running
With Armageddon being one of the focused battlezones, anyone wanna speculate on an Ork Triumverate box in the future? Perhaps with a certain chainsaw?

I wonder how they will handle mek guns in the new edition?

There are lots of artillery in AoS.
Skull Cannons, for instance, have a move, save, wounds and bravery... just like any other model.
The main attack is only a single dice to hit or wound, but you cause d6 wounds. You add 1 to the roll to hit if the target unit has more than 10 models - which is a pretty typical rule for AoS.

The Morkanaut looks pretty good so far as an example, hopefully other unit's stats are aligned to it and don't go overboard. Still waiting on points costs though...

Damaged trukks having reduced movement is sad, but it's better than being immobilized or exploding!

I'm wondering if some damaged vehicles will lose weapons or have other effects than diminished M, WS, BS or A. I guess there will be other kinds of damage.

Ashkayel wrote:
Damaged trukks having reduced movement is sad, but it's better than being immobilized or exploding!

I'm wondering if some damaged vehicles will lose weapons or have other effects than diminished M, WS, BS or A. I guess there will be other kinds of damage.

Maybe they will have reduced movement... maybe they won't. The damage effects will vary based on the model. I could actually see Trukks INCREASE their movement when just a little bit hurt. Each polywound (TM) model will have their own damage table. Basically, any stat is up for modification in the damage table. Both Model and Weapon stats.
Exciting time to be alive!

my favorite units to use are Big Meks, meks, battlewagons, Nob bikers and warbikers, trukk boys, Stompas

So stompa gotta have like 35 wounds;

sorry for the same question again, but could you guys provide links?

I've literally spent the last 30 mins on the GW website and cant find this info!

EDIT: Ive found some of it, so links would be great anyway. but yeh WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!

www.warhammer-community.com

The 8th edition drip feed is all on the new community site. Just click 40k and scroll down

 Hades wrote:
www.warhammer-community.com

The 8th edition drip feed is all on the new community site. Just click 40k and scroll down

You'd better not click 40k, just scroll down as sometimes news appear in the general section before the 40k one. Look for "New Warhammer" posts.

Ah thank you guys. I had seen the site, but didn't click on it. I honestly just thought it was another fansite. So I've had a quick skim. The split fire seems awesome for infantry. Just trying to imagine what you could do with it Boyz wise. How about burna Boyz with kmbs. Could use them as basically cheap units who can deal with either armour or hordes. Throw them towards transports hoping to pop with the kmb and roast with the now auto hitting d6 flamers.

Killakanz squads with multiple weapons, I assume they can also split fire. So could be useful to throw in rokkits with grotzookas. Kommandos, as they get quite a lot of special weapons per squad size, have good rules. Could be great for sitting in objectives and putting the weapons to use at every available target. Finally the random weapons that almost all units seem to be able to take may become useful! Assuming they keep the weapon options.

Juicy juicy!

Split fire can turn out to be pretty good for orks. A mob of 30 can split it's fire when facing msu which may well mean charging only what they shoot at is out the window or a designated primary might be chosen. Not sure. Getting big shoot as and rokkits for boyz could be viable. Same as 3 mek upgrades within a loota/burna mob. Also scatter lasers took a 40% nerf against our t4 models.

Along with removing deathstsrs, GW has also removed a lot of the reasons to take msu. No more "wasted shooting".

Ashkayel wrote:
Damaged trukks having reduced movement is sad, but it's better than being immobilized or exploding!

That's not for sure actually. When the profile of the dreadnought came out it didn't have a damage table like the 'nauts with a reduced movement if it gets seriously wounded, that's why maybe this kind of table will be associated only to the biggest walkers.

 Blackie wrote:

Ashkayel wrote:
Damaged trukks having reduced movement is sad, but it's better than being immobilized or exploding!

That's not for sure actually. When the profile of the dreadnought came out it didn't have a damage table like the 'nauts with a reduced movement if it gets seriously wounded, that's why maybe this kind of table will be associated only to the biggest walkers.

True, we don't know yet. However, I'm pretty sure dreadnoughts will have a damage table also, they just didn't want to spoil it at that moment.

We now have a reason to take rokkit launchas on boyz! Having some extra anti-tank/mc weaponry in basic squads can help us take on harder targets without just relying on tankbustas and MANZ.

Except our movement 5" (if we're lucky) won't be able to advance/run the extra d6 if we're shooting rokkits. Though it is tempting since rokkits will be able to put the hurt on 2+ saves now.

 biggie_reg wrote:
We now have a reason to take rokkit launchas on boyz! Having some extra anti-tank/mc weaponry in basic squads can help us take on harder targets without just relying on tankbustas and MANZ.

Yes but the ability of splitting fire almost cripples the concept of MSU, as units with different weapons can target something else if part of the squad manage to kill an enemy unit. Orks get no benefit from the new rule as hitting on 5s doesn't probably worth the 1-3 rokkits upgrade in boyz mobs.

 Hades wrote:
Except our movement 5" (if we're lucky) won't be able to advance/run the extra d6 if we're shooting rokkits. Though it is tempting since rokkits will be able to put the hurt on 2+ saves now.

I don't see boyz moving slower than marines. I expect boyz moving 6" and MANz 5", like terminators.

And I agree if this is choppyhammer we will be advancing most of the time. For shoota boyz rokkits/big shootas will come handy, tho.

 biggie_reg wrote:
We now have a reason to take rokkit launchas on boyz! Having some extra anti-tank/mc weaponry in basic squads can help us take on harder targets without just relying on tankbustas and MANZ.

Yes, but I suspect with the new rules prohibiting randomly one-shotting tanks, the rokkits won't do too much damage vs anything if it's just one or two in a squad. We might still be better firing them at MEQ for all we know.

Ashkayel wrote:

 Hades wrote:
Except our movement 5" (if we're lucky) won't be able to advance/run the extra d6 if we're shooting rokkits. Though it is tempting since rokkits will be able to put the hurt on 2+ saves now.

I don't see boyz moving slower than marines. I expect boyz moving 6" and MANz 5", like terminators.

And I agree if this is choppyhammer we will be advancing most of the time. For shoota boyz rokkits/big shootas will come handy, tho.

Orks have been slower historically. And are slower in SWA.

 gnome_idea_what wrote:

 biggie_reg wrote:
We now have a reason to take rokkit launchas on boyz! Having some extra anti-tank/mc weaponry in basic squads can help us take on harder targets without just relying on tankbustas and MANZ.

Yes, but I suspect with the new rules prohibiting randomly one-shotting tanks, the rokkits won't do too much damage vs anything if it's just one or two in a squad. We might still be better firing them at MEQ for all we know.

True. Also instant killing T4 seems to be gone, so no more picking off assassins with rockets to the face.

 JimOnMars wrote:

 gnome_idea_what wrote:

 biggie_reg wrote:
We now have a reason to take rokkit launchas on boyz! Having some extra anti-tank/mc weaponry in basic squads can help us take on harder targets without just relying on tankbustas and MANZ.

Yes, but I suspect with the new rules prohibiting randomly one-shotting tanks, the rokkits won't do too much damage vs anything if it's just one or two in a squad. We might still be better firing them at MEQ for all we know.

True. Also instant killing T4 seems to be gone, so no more picking off assassins with rockets to the face.

You were hitting things with rokkits?

Just thought of something..... If LD is a bubble effect, that means we can mitigate bad moral rolls by having bosses dotted around the blob rather than needing them inside of the units to benefit from LD9

My big concern is if my warbosses can still hop in battlewagons along with some boyz. My TAC list is basically two battlewagons stuffed with boyz and warbosses Even if they're not part of the same squad, having a vehicle just for one independent character seems like a waste. I'm going so assume they'll have some mechanic to allow independent characters to ride in transports.

I'm also curious as to how this will affect painboys. Do they also give off a FNP bubble? If so, that will be fantastic. I know all we can really do is speculate at this point but it's just a few things on my mind.

MSU is still great vs battleshock.

I'm sure vehicles will allow you to embark one squad and as many IC's as fit in its capacity.

Heck, we might even get back measuring from the hull for bubble effects KFF back?!

 davou wrote:

Ashkayel wrote:

 Hades wrote:
Except our movement 5" (if we're lucky) won't be able to advance/run the extra d6 if we're shooting rokkits. Though it is tempting since rokkits will be able to put the hurt on 2+ saves now.

I don't see boyz moving slower than marines. I expect boyz moving 6" and MANz 5", like terminators.

And I agree if this is choppyhammer we will be advancing most of the time. For shoota boyz rokkits/big shootas will come handy, tho.

Orks have been slower historically. And are slower in SWA.

SstOp comparing to swa. Swa is designed to work with necro, it's another system. 8th and swa have very few if anything in common. We will see when it comes out. Bit I suspect 6in, guard will probably be 5in, but I doubt anything will be below 5in unless it's a vehicle/monster wound profile.

 davou wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:

 gnome_idea_what wrote:

 biggie_reg wrote:
We now have a reason to take rokkit launchas on boyz! Having some extra anti-tank/mc weaponry in basic squads can help us take on harder targets without just relying on tankbustas and MANZ.

Yes, but I suspect with the new rules prohibiting randomly one-shotting tanks, the rokkits won't do too much damage vs anything if it's just one or two in a squad. We might still be better firing them at MEQ for all we know.

True. Also instant killing T4 seems to be gone, so no more picking off assassins with rockets to the face.

You were hitting things with rokkits?

Just thought of something..... If LD is a bubble effect, that means we can mitigate bad moral rolls by having bosses dotted around the blob rather than needing them inside of the units to benefit from LD9

Deffkoptas had a good chance with TL. Also small squads of tankbustas usually got 1 or 2 wounds.

About killing assassins with rokkits, rokkits may deal more than one wound (probably because GW is sick of ork players co-opting tankbustas into MEQ-exploding duty, and they can do so without nerfing tankbustas by making that an inefficient option) so it may still be viable.

I can't wait to see the deffguns and snuzzguns stats.

Yeah, snazzguns can have rending d3! And it wouldn't be as awful as current all-or-nothing d6.

I could imagine lootas remaining more or less the same. ap4 converts to rending -1.

 koooaei wrote:
Yeah, snazzguns can have rending d3! And it wouldn't be as awful as current all-or-nothing d6.

I could imagine lootas remaining more or less the same. ap4 converts to rending -1.

Yea, lootas are about right, except pretty pricey for t-shirt armor. I'm hoping they at least get the opportunity for better armor...and maybe a discount.

Deffguns could potentially have damage 2 since they are a relatively high calibre weapon. Would somewhat compensate for our low BS. Please let lootas take gitfindas!

Kombi-Skorchas just got a lot more interesting, especially if they stay at 5 points on MANZ.

 JohnU wrote:
Kombi-Skorchas just got a lot more interesting, especially if they stay at 5 points on MANZ.

I highly doubt they will, I expect the price for kombi/combi-weapons to spike up considerably for all races given that it no longer is one shot for the underslung profile. I'm just imagining the sheer amount of dakka our units are going to have now that twin-linked doubles the amount of shots. Deffkoptas, Dakkajets, Warbuggies and our warbikers are going to be insane.

Yeah, in the unlikely event the Dakkajet keeps the Waaagh shooting rule, Yowza!

 Grimskul wrote:

 JohnU wrote:
Kombi-Skorchas just got a lot more interesting, especially if they stay at 5 points on MANZ.

I highly doubt they will, I expect the price for kombi/combi-weapons to spike up considerably for all races given that it no longer is one shot for the underslung profile. I'm just imagining the sheer amount of dakka our units are going to have now that twin-linked doubles the amount of shots. Deffkoptas, Dakkajets, Warbuggies and our warbikers are going to be insane.

Are you saying we're... Doubling the dakka this edition? "Dakka Dakka", if you will?

Confirmed, Dakka did 8th Edition

Combi-skorchas would be good... combi anything else with a BS2... not really worth it.

Dakka jet stats... let's see those!

Converting twin link to double shots helps the orks least of all the races:

BS TL Hits x2 Hits
1 11/36 12/36
2 20/36 24/36
3 27/36 36/36
4 32/36 48/36
5 35/36 60/36

This is not good for us.

 JimOnMars wrote:
Converting twin link to double shots helps the orks least of all the races:

BS TL Hits x2 Hits
1 11/36 12/36
2 20/36 24/36
3 27/36 36/36
4 32/36 48/36
5 35/36 60/36

This is not good for us.

On the other hand, outside of the troop slot you could put skorchas/burnas on everything and suddenly Orks have the most accurate shooting phase.

 JohnU wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
Converting twin link to double shots helps the orks least of all the races:

BS TL Hits x2 Hits
1 11/36 12/36
2 20/36 24/36
3 27/36 36/36
4 32/36 48/36
5 35/36 60/36

This is not good for us.

On the other hand, outside of the troop slot you could put skorchas/burnas on everything and suddenly Orks have the most accurate shooting phase.

Maybe...we don't know how the combi's will be distributed in the new "codex."

Can't wait to kill dreadnoughts with burna boys actually.

So with all the stuff so far, I've put together a list of the rule changes and how they would affect Orks.

So far, there are more things in general that help us, but units leaving combat and multiple overwatch are really big detriments, IMHO.

Let me know if I missed anything, or if you think I put something in the wrong list.

Things helping Orks

- Balancing
- Removing Initiative
- Chargers go first
- Pile-in to other units
- Removing death stars
- Removing formations
- Walkers in general now "punch their weight"
- Vehicles gain armor
- Removed vehicle facing
- Dedicated Transports now usable by all units
- Removing vehicle damage table
- pulling dead models by owner's choice
- Charges move models even if failed
- Shooting pistols in combat
- Variety of force org charts
- New AP system helps 6+ & 4+ armor
- Cover and armor stack

Things hurting Orks

- Units allowed to leave combat
- multiple overwatch
- Twin Linked converted to multiple shots
- Morale system hurts large units
- Split fire

Things neutral to Orks

- Characters not joining units
- Loss of templates

 JimOnMars wrote:
Converting twin link to double shots helps the orks least of all the races:

BS TL Hits x2 Hits
1 11/36 12/36
2 20/36 24/36
3 27/36 36/36
4 32/36 48/36
5 35/36 60/36

This is not good for us.

Every singe update so far has been an indirect nerf to orks, every singe update! From -1 to hit with heavy weapons to multiple overwatch to the way forner blast weapons now needs BS for every hit. It looks like orks will be even suckier than before.

 jhnbrg wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
Converting twin link to double shots helps the orks least of all the races:

BS TL Hits x2 Hits
1 11/36 12/36
2 20/36 24/36
3 27/36 36/36
4 32/36 48/36
5 35/36 60/36

This is not good for us.

Every singe update so far has been an indirect nerf to orks, every singe update! From -1 to hit with heavy weapons to multiple overwatch to the way forner blast weapons now needs BS for every hit. It looks like orks will be even suckier than before.

L

O

L.

Maybe they are a nerf to you, but they are not all nerfs to orks.

JimOnMars wrote:So with all the stuff so far, I've put together a list of the rule changes and how they would affect Orks.

So far, there are more things in general that help us, but units leaving combat and multiple overwatch are really big detriments, IMHO.

Let me know if I missed anything, or if you think I put something in the wrong list.

Things helping Orks

- Balancing
- Removing Initiative
- Chargers go first
- Pile-in to other units
- Removing death stars
- Removing formations
- Vehicles gain armor
- Removed vehicle facing
- Removing vehicle damage table
- pulling dead models by owner's choice
- Charges move models even if failed
- Shooting pistols in combat
- Variety of force org charts

Things hurting Orks

- Units allowed to leave combat
- multiple overwatch
- Twin Linked converted to multiple shots
- Morale system hurts large units

Things neutral to Orks

- Split fire
- Characters not joining units
- Loss of templates

On the subject of multiple overwatch - was this really a situation that came up for a lot of Ork players here? I very seldom charged a single unit with multiple units, and then very seldom failed to charge with the first unit to then follow up with the second. If you engage with your first charger, they don't still then get to shoot at subsequent chargers - that hasn't changed. The only change here is that now, if you try to eat an enemy unit's overwatch with your unit of grots, they actually have to SUCCEED at their charge to prevent other units from getting hit.

jhnbrg wrote:

Every singe update so far has been an indirect nerf to orks, every singe update! From -1 to hit with heavy weapons to multiple overwatch to the way forner blast weapons now needs BS for every hit. It looks like orks will be even suckier than before.

Can I ask how always hitting first on the charge is an indirect nerf to Orks?

I think the new To Wound chart will be a small net positive for us. Low strength (5 and under) weapons get a small boost and T4 is a little better against the mass of S6/7 currently out there.

Well and if you go by the big update thread, grots will be killing all the land raiders.

 Jambles wrote:

JimOnMars wrote:So with all the stuff so far, I've put together a list of the rule changes and how they would affect Orks.

So far, there are more things in general that help us, but units leaving combat and multiple overwatch are really big detriments, IMHO.

Let me know if I missed anything, or if you think I put something in the wrong list.

Things helping Orks

- Balancing
- Removing Initiative
- Chargers go first
- Pile-in to other units
- Removing death stars
- Removing formations
- Vehicles gain armor
- Removed vehicle facing
- Removing vehicle damage table
- pulling dead models by owner's choice
- Charges move models even if failed
- Shooting pistols in combat
- Variety of force org charts

Things hurting Orks

- Units allowed to leave combat
- multiple overwatch
- Twin Linked converted to multiple shots
- Morale system hurts large units

Things neutral to Orks

- Split fire
- Characters not joining units
- Loss of templates

On the subject of multiple overwatch - was this really a situation that came up for a lot of Ork players here? I very seldom charged a single unit with multiple units, and then very seldom failed to charge with the first unit to then follow up with the second. If you engage with your first charger, they don't still then get to shoot at subsequent chargers - that hasn't changed. The only change here is that now, if you try to eat an enemy unit's overwatch with your unit of grots, they actually have to SUCCEED at their charge to prevent other units from getting hit.

jhnbrg wrote:

Every singe update so far has been an indirect nerf to orks, every singe update! From -1 to hit with heavy weapons to multiple overwatch to the way forner blast weapons now needs BS for every hit. It looks like orks will be even suckier than before.

Can I ask how always hitting first on the charge is an indirect nerf to Orks?

Ok, I might have over reacted some but i still think that orks are getting the worst of it mostly. With a low save and a low bs, every -1 will affect us much more than other factions. -1 to hit when moving with heavy weapons makes us the same as before while every one else gat a big bonus compared to snap fire.
Most of the things in the list that helps orks are neutral or sligthly bad.

I dont hate 8th edition and i think that 40k needs a restart but i cant see how they will be able to balance orks with the rules so far.

Are Nobz in heavy armor with Shoota/Skorcha suddenly going to be playable?

 JimOnMars wrote:

- pulling dead models by owner's choice
- Charges move models even if failed

Anyone got confirmation on these two?

 davou wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:

- pulling dead models by owner's choice
- Charges move models even if failed

Anyone got confirmation on these two?

Haven't seen anything on the first. For the other, some of us have read the line from the Charge Phase article

GW wrote:You can select any unit within 12″ as the target of your charge, and your units will move towards them 2D6″.

to mean models will move regardless, some have not so I guess we'll need clarification.

 JimOnMars wrote:
Converting twin link to double shots helps the orks least of all the races:

BS TL Hits x2 Hits
1 11/36 12/36
2 20/36 24/36
3 27/36 36/36
4 32/36 48/36
5 35/36 60/36

This is not good for us.

I just did that same math on Excel. We'll just have to wait and see how the points balance out and how much cover adds. The simple fact that Str 5 Dakka Guns hurt everything T9 and lower on a 3+ helps us and Tau considerably. Also our Nobs in CC. 10 Naked Nobs getting 50 3+ to hit 3+ to wound attacks sounds pretty nice.

Also upgrades for Units may be free.

Also HQ's can take dedicated Transports so maybe they'll be riding by themselves?

Either way I'm cautiously optimistic Bikers and NobBikers may be back especially with some really awesome Exhaust Cloud Rule. Remember worst they can hit their 6 shots is now a 6+. Modifiers to BS and armor save hurt us the least simply because our stats are so bad in those areas.

 JimOnMars wrote:
So with all the stuff so far, I've put together a list of the rule changes and how they would affect Orks.

So far, there are more things in general that help us, but units leaving combat and multiple overwatch are really big detriments, IMHO.

Let me know if I missed anything, or if you think I put something in the wrong list.

Spoiler:

Things helping Orks

- Balancing
- Removing Initiative
- Chargers go first
- Pile-in to other units
- Removing death stars
- Removing formations
- Vehicles gain armor
- Removed vehicle facing
- Removing vehicle damage table
- pulling dead models by owner's choice
- Charges move models even if failed
- Shooting pistols in combat
- Variety of force org charts

Things hurting Orks

- Units allowed to leave combat
- multiple overwatch
- Twin Linked converted to multiple shots
- Morale system hurts large units

Things neutral to Orks

- Split fire
- Characters not joining units
- Loss of templates

You could add the new AP system as a buff. In 7th we had no saves against AP5 and AP6 weapons, but now we have our t-shirt save. However, you could argue that our big shootas won't be removing 5+ saves, tho... Still, I think it will be a bonus for us.

Now that dedicated transports have their own slot, battlewagons will count as dedicated transport or they will remain heavy supports? I really hope they won't be HS anymore, especially with their new stats, I don't want them to compete with our long ranged shooty units or the 'nauts.

 Blackie wrote:
Now that dedicated transports have their own slot, battlewagons will count as dedicated transport or they will remain heavy supports? I really hope they won't be HS anymore, especially with their new stats, I don't want them to compete with our long ranged shooty units or the 'nauts.

Didn't think about that. Honestly I'm not optimistic about that, but we'll have to see. Maybe there's a speed freeks detachment that allows them as dedicated transports?

Ashkayel wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
So with all the stuff so far, I've put together a list of the rule changes and how they would affect Orks.

So far, there are more things in general that help us, but units leaving combat and multiple overwatch are really big detriments, IMHO.

Let me know if I missed anything, or if you think I put something in the wrong list.

Spoiler:

Things helping Orks

- Balancing
- Removing Initiative
- Chargers go first
- Pile-in to other units
- Removing death stars
- Removing formations
- Vehicles gain armor
- Removed vehicle facing
- Removing vehicle damage table
- pulling dead models by owner's choice
- Charges move models even if failed
- Shooting pistols in combat
- Variety of force org charts

Things hurting Orks

- Units allowed to leave combat
- multiple overwatch
- Twin Linked converted to multiple shots
- Morale system hurts large units

Things neutral to Orks

- Split fire
- Characters not joining units
- Loss of templates

You could add the new AP system as a buff. In 7th we had no saves against AP5 and AP6 weapons, but now we have our t-shirt save. However, you could argue that our big shootas won't be removing 5+ saves, tho... Still, I think it will be a bonus for us.

Added to buffs:

- Walkers in general now "punch their weight"
- Dedicated Transports now usable by all units
- New AP system helps 6+ & 4+ armor
- Cover and armor stack

The first of these is huge. The rest are marginal at best, but I think they are buffs.

I'm hoping an ork boy is 5 pts and a Shoota is free.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
I'm hoping an ork boy is 5 pts and a Shoota is free.

A lot will be determined if pistols still count as an extra CC weapon. If they don't, I think most people will be taking shootas as pistols aren't worth it otherwise. If they do, it'll still be the old debate. I still think "replace slugga and choppa for shoota" should be free but "add shoota" should be 1 pt.

Yeah, if choppas are AP-1, I want my shoota boyz to keep them.

Choppa AP-1
Big Choppa AP-2
Power Klaw AP-3

That was meant to be! Let's go GW!

Or we could get 1-2 new melee weapon options, that'd be nice!

So...would a 2-wound ork boy at 10 pts (base) be a buff or a nerf?

 JimOnMars wrote:

Things neutral to Orks

- Split fire
- Characters not joining units

I'd say that characters not joining units is a really really bad thing to orks. Most ork characters lack decent survivability. And there's still a number of ways to snipe them out. And warbosses are great in mellee. Which they probably won't see that often now. And...we have no idea how they interact with transports.

Split fire is a bad thing cause now this marines won't waste lazcannons on your naked boyz and will instead blow up a trukk.

 koooaei wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:

Things neutral to Orks

- Split fire
- Characters not joining units

I'd say that characters not joining units is a really really bad thing to orks. Most ork characters lack decent survivability. And there's still a number of ways to snipe them out. And warbosses are great in mellee. Which they probably won't see that often now. And...we have no idea how they interact with transports.

Split fire is a bad thing cause now this marines won't waste lazcannons on your naked boyz and will instead blow up a trukk.

I agree, warbosses would be nerfed quite badly, even if they have the possibility to strike first thanks to new charge rules. I think we will see a lot of painboyz around the battlefield if their FNP works like KFF bubbles.

We haven't seen the Warboss's stats... we haven't seen model rules... there is still so much that we haven't seen.
We'll be fine.

 JimOnMars wrote:
So...would a 2-wound ork boy at 10 pts (base) be a buff or a nerf?

That's funny, I had that exact thought last night.

It does help with battleshock, and not being able to spread wounds around keeps it from being completely ridiculous.

I think for footsloggers it's a wash with the higher number of shots a lot of weapons are doing. Trukk boyz benefit more with transports being a little tougher. 2 wound bikers? (and 3 wound nobs!) Now we're talking.

I think it would be a net buff, even if a lot of our elite choices are pricey already, depending on if Ignore Cover is still around and how much of it there is.

 koooaei wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:

Things neutral to Orks

- Split fire
- Characters not joining units

I'd say that characters not joining units is a really really bad thing to orks. Most ork characters lack decent survivability. And there's still a number of ways to snipe them out. And warbosses are great in mellee. Which they probably won't see that often now. And...we have no idea how they interact with transports.

Split fire is a bad thing cause now this marines won't waste lazcannons on your naked boyz and will instead blow up a trukk.

I'm not sure sniping a warboss is any easier now than before, if he is placed correctly. Also I don't see why he can't charge the same unit by himself, or a different unit. If you look at the Rubrics datasheet today, the character is faster than the grunts...I would assume the warboss will be as well and should be able to get in no problem.

Also, he'll get 2+ cover/armor often and 7-8 wounds from the few sniper shots, so I think he'll be OK.

I put split fire as neutral because we can use it as well...not very effective at bs2, but with units of 30 we may get some opportunities there. But after thinking about it, with 5 marines all firing at different things, it helps others more than us. I'll move it to Nerf.

With out seeing the whole picture it is not possible to determine how orks will be in 8th edition. Although I do agree that based on what we know there are some concerns.

not to mention, that unless warbosses suddenly out-number guilliman for wounds, you're not allowed to shoot at him with lazcannons anyway. IC's arent targetable directly.... It certainly does smell like trouble for our vehicles though... I certainly hope that we get some way to mitigate them blowing up easier than any other armies transports.

 davou wrote:
not to mention, that unless warbosses suddenly out-number guilliman for wounds, you're not allowed to shoot at him with lazcannons anyway. IC's arent targetable directly.... It certainly does smell like trouble for our vehicles though... I certainly hope that we get some way to mitigate them blowing up easier than any other armies transports.

If they keep their current point cost, it's mitigated enough, IMHO. The only thing wrong with trukks was the explosion that took out half of the boyz, then pinned them, or caused 2 mob rule checks. With that gone, and trukks getting saves and wounds, I'm perfectly happy with them. Let them blow 1 up...it's better than what we have now when they blow up 4.

 JimOnMars wrote:
The only thing wrong with trukks was the explosion that took out half of the boyz, then pinned them, or caused 2 mob rule checks. With that gone,

No promise that explosions are gone, or that trukks will get any kind of save unfortunately.

Here are what we know so far:

SM Dreadnought: T7 W8 3+
Gorkanaught: T8 W18 3+
Leman Russ: T8 W12 3+

So armor ~13 seems to be T8 and armor ~12 seems to be T7. So I guess trukks will get T5 and kanz T6? Or both T6 and trukks with less save?

I would be happy with a T6 W6 4+ trukk.

EDIT: Hmm thinking about it, a trukk should be pretty easy to damage (compared to a kan, for example) but could have more wounds. So T5 W8 4+? We won't know for sure until the release or the faction focus article...

 davou wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
The only thing wrong with trukks was the explosion that took out half of the boyz, then pinned them, or caused 2 mob rule checks. With that gone,

No promise that explosions are gone, or that trukks will get any kind of save unfortunately.

Every statline of we've seen so far has a save on it, so I'd be very surprised if our vehicles didn't get SOME kind of save.

Also we've seen some vehicle damage charts, and none of them have had an 'explosion' type effect. It's consistently a reduction in stats as wounds decrease.

Here's my bet: our vehicles won't start degrading until late in their wound pile, but then drop off REALLY dramatically once they're almost dead...

I am hopping the trukks have a cool rule for ramshackle.

 Geemoney wrote:
I am hopping the trukks have a cool rule for ramshackle.

Bring back kareening trukks please.

 JohnU wrote:

 Geemoney wrote:
I am hopping the trukks have a cool rule for ramshackle.

Bring back kareening trukks please.

Best rule in the game! I got so many free charges off of an extra movement boost in the enemy shooting phase from a trukk going out of control

If most things cap at T8 then S5 seems pretty versatile. It damages T4 on 3+, and T6-T9 on a 5+, so it's pretty good vs MEQ and passable vs what most vehicles as far as we know fall into. Unless we get nerfs to weapon strength, ork sources of S5 are warbikes, Lobbas, nobs, big shootas, and snazzguns. Those could be decent TAC choices.

Alternatively if light transports like rhinos, tauroxes, and raiders are T6, and big choppas keep +2S and get any rending value, then trukks full of big choppa nobs could be good at hunting light armor, being around as effective as MANz at killing transports for probably less points.

And if anyone else caught the thread on turning vehicles to block LOS now that armor value are gone, the historically problematic long sides and small front footprint of the BW might become a boon if vehicles can move that way. There was some bellyaching about abusing model size, but for orks it can be excused because drifting is probably fluffier than just going forward-- whether the drifting is intentional or due to engine problems.

7 BWs turned sideways covers pretty much the entire short length of the board. Might be able to get away with 6 if they all have rollas.

Ashkayel wrote:
Yeah, if choppas are AP-1, I want my shoota boyz to keep them.

Choppa AP-1
Big Choppa AP-2
Power Klaw AP-3

That was meant to be! Let's go GW!

Or we could get 1-2 new melee weapon options, that'd be nice!

According to the previews at the moment the weapons that could instant kill marines got d3-d6 wounds. So I guess PK is AP- 3 d6 damage. Also I don't think big choppa will get more than -1 AP.

"Drifting is fluffier for Orks"

I love this game, I love Orks, and I love all youse guys!

 JohnU wrote:

 Geemoney wrote:
I am hopping the trukks have a cool rule for ramshackle.

Bring back kareening trukks please.

Ramshackle + new vehicle chart could do crazy things- heck, trukks could get FASTER the closer they get to blowing up!

 DaisyWondercow wrote:
heck, trukks could get FASTER the closer they get to blowing up!

I really like that idea and would be a good reinterpretation of the old rule.

 thenewgozoku wrote:

Ashkayel wrote:
Yeah, if choppas are AP-1, I want my shoota boyz to keep them.

Choppa AP-1
Big Choppa AP-2
Power Klaw AP-3

That was meant to be! Let's go GW!

Or we could get 1-2 new melee weapon options, that'd be nice!

According to the previews at the moment the weapons that could instant kill marines got d3-d6 wounds. So I guess PK is AP- 3 d6 damage. Also I don't think big choppa will get more than -1 AP.

All speculation here, but I am expecting Klaws to be -3 AP and D6 damage, and Big Choppas to be -1 AP and D3 damage. I expect our KMK will be heavy D3 -3AP and D6 damage. KMB will be -3 AP and D6 Damage and the KMS to just be a shorter range version. Might be a fun edition for our Gets Hot! Weapons. Our Burna's may well be our best dakka now. Current AP1/2/3 weapons are floored at AP-3 in 8th it looks like, but current AP 1 and 2 things are getting more damage to help with those models with wounds. I think lootas are gonna come out of this with AP-2 and still be D3 shots, and perhaps be a loser without some rulez. I am curious to see if we get AP -3 and D3 damage on rokkitz (D3 damage might be wishful thinking, but if tankbustas are gonna shoot these 16 wound vehicles they will need a nudge). Shootas will probably be AP0, Big Shoota will have to be AP-1. Snazzgunz could easily be AP -D3 which seems like a buff, and even on top of that do D3 damage. Twin Linked become 2x shots could round bikes out at 6 Shots AP-1. It isn't unreal to expect our dakkajet to throw 32 AP-1 shots at 4+ Ballistic skill on a Waaagh! (Crazy). Our koptas will probably have two rokkitz.

SAG, Grotzooka, and numerous mek gun weapons could still be anything. I think the tournament going talent they recruited to give feedback on all this is gonna do everybody good.

Without the blast marker, the SAG has to change a lot. I hope they keep all of the fluffy randomness!

Anybody else feel weird about the datasheet stating force axe AP was -2 and the force sword was -3? Does give me hope for the big choppas as it seems that they would get at least some sort of AP. And the force weapons causing D3 wounds makes it look like powerclaws and such will be deadly, maybe D6.

This will be a good edition for the boys i think.

 biggie_reg wrote:
Anybody else feel weird about the datasheet stating force axe AP was -2 and the force sword was -3? Does give me hope for the big choppas as it seems that they would get at least some sort of AP. And the force weapons causing D3 wounds makes it look like powerclaws and such will be deadly, maybe D6.

Don't forget that the sorcerer didn't have the "Force" power so I guess his CC weapons have this build in thats why the damage is d3. AP -3 for swords reminds me the no armour power weapons of the past.

 PipeAlley wrote:
"Drifting is fluffier for Orks"

I love this game, I love Orks, and I love all youse guys!

SO HYPED!

I think the saving graces of the 8th Ed will be:

Gorkanauts sucked balls when released, and GW will want ork players buying those models (i imagine they had a lot less sales then they initially hoped for with such a cool model)
Flashgitz sucked balls when released.... yada yada

Now I know this isnt the way it always works. But its been clear ork players have wanted walkers to make a return. They tried that 7ed, models, formations, new "cool" scared grot rules. it all failed miserably with the power creep. With the new ed they have the ability to reset a lot of things and I think we may find the power level of some of our stuff increasing to match the other units. Yes some rules will still be horrible for us, but in general with the fact they can on the fly sort of update units as the meta develops, I think the time of the orks has come! I dont have much experience with AoS, but one thing I did like was the way powers worked. and that certain units had interactions and special rules with other units. I hope that ports over to the orks well, as we are certainly fluffy in terms of having some crazy rules. SAG for example, flashgitz, ramshackle.

The orks have always been heavy on the 'dX' rules. AoS seems dHeavy and I have plenty of dice ready

 Rismonite wrote:


Twin Linked become 2x shots could round bikes out at 6 Shots AP-1. It isn't unreal to expect our dakkajet to throw 32 AP-1 shots at 4+ Ballistic skill on a Waaagh! (Crazy). Our koptas will probably have two rokkitz.

This is actually a huge bonus for other armies which have their units that hit on 3s or even on 4s, which means they will increase significantly their amount of firepower. With orks' bs2 the new TL rule means just a small buff, only a few hits more on average.

 Blackie wrote:


This is actually a huge bonus for other armies which have their units that hit on 3s or even on 4s, which means they will increase significantly their amount of firepower. With orks' bs2 the new TL rule means just a small buff, only a few hits more on average.

It's more of a marine buff, but they said that points will change to reflect the increase in firepower. Hopefully ours will be cheaper.

Kombi-weapons can now fire both weapons every turn, and flamers auto-hit. I'm envisioning a Battlewagon full of Nobz with Kombi-Skorchas just rolling up and roasting whatever gets in their way. Maybe a few Shoota rounds hit their mark too. That's just icing on the cake. Hilarious.

 Cleatus wrote:
Kombi-weapons can now fire both weapons every turn, and flamers auto-hit. I'm envisioning a Battlewagon full of Nobz with Kombi-Skorchas just rolling up and roasting whatever gets in their way. Maybe a few Shoota rounds hit their mark too. That's just icing on the cake. Hilarious.

Interesting. What else can get Kombi-skorchas?

Meganobz!

 gnome_idea_what wrote:

 Cleatus wrote:
Kombi-weapons can now fire both weapons every turn, and flamers auto-hit. I'm envisioning a Battlewagon full of Nobz with Kombi-Skorchas just rolling up and roasting whatever gets in their way. Maybe a few Shoota rounds hit their mark too. That's just icing on the cake. Hilarious.

Interesting. What else can get Kombi-skorchas?

Nobz (but not those that are squad upgrades.), MANZ, Meks (including those you can take in Burna squads.), Big Meks, and Bosses

For now... who knows what options might be available in a few weeks.

I see that rubric marines ignores the -1 for firing heavy weapons and they don't have slow and purposefull. I hope our Manz get that too.

For what it's worth the new rules at least made me post in this forum for the first time in years

On weapons:
If nothing is changed and all weapons are treated the same as what we have seen, shootas, big shootas and dakka guns will have no AP, deff guns and supa shootas -1, rokkits will be -2, and anything Kustom-Mega will be -3. Not sure if any of those get additional damage.
Killkannon will be exactly like the battlecannon except S7 and the usual sucky range. Depending on point costs and vehicle shooting rules it might be a great all-round weapon to stick on our battlewagons as it can pretty much hurt anything on the battlefield. That's a lot better than "might one-shot MEQs or do nothing".
Considering how the weapon options for the rubric marine's character changed, choppa and big choppa might be anything.

On split fire:
We have those rokkits we can toss in our boyz mobs which were not really anything awesome in the past edditions. When two or three rokkits in every mob of boyz suddenly can target whatever they feel like, they become a much better choice than before.
Also, big shoota #3 and #4 on battlewagons finally make sense for the first time since the model exists.

On combi-weapons:
10 Nobz with combi-skorchas now fire 20 S4 shots + 10d6 S5 shots that hit automatically.

On vehicles:
If the LRBT stattline is an indicator (did anyone else notice that they have not posted a non-walker vehicle profile?), the battlewagon is highly likely to be T8, 3+ (or maybe 4+ because open topped?) and 10+ wounds. No more exploding from one lascannon, melta or a salvo of scatter lasers to the side, no more S4 or S5 shooting destroying them easily from behind and no more arguing whether that melta guardsman is in the side arc or not. It now takes a minimum of two lascannon hits and a total of 10-12 damage to take out a battlewagon where before a single hit followed by a 4+ was enough.
I can only guess what trucks would look like, but there is no way that a single S6 or S7 hit from some high volume gun will destroy it.
In total this means a lot more shots need to go into each of our transports, which in turn means that a lot more of them will be able to unload their cargo into enemy lines.

On characters:
You can deploy a warboss in the middle of an ork mob and just move it along, nothing but snipers will ever be able to shoot it. Can't tell if snipers are going to be a problem at this point, depending on their chance to hit, to wound, their AP etc. If unit of ratlings needs 5+ to wound my warboss who can then use his 4+ save against anything that actually wounds, I'm not worried at all. If eldar pathfinders hit on 2+, wound on 2+ and then ignore saves, it will suck a lot.

On army composition:
Have you noticed that Brigade Detachment which hands out 9 commands points for fielding six units of troops and three of every other slot? That's ridiculously easy to archive with orks. MANz missiles, small tankbusta squads, single deff koptas, trukk boys, gretchin and many cheap support HQs, you can fill up whatever strategy your were planning to field and can double up on whatever slot you need most.
Assuming that command points are actually worth the trouble, this could be a great advantage for games at 2000 points.

On Mega-Armoured Orks:
They finally got their 5++!
... not really, but a lascannon still leaves them with a 5+ save, a melta at least a 6+. There is also a very slight chance that they are not instantly killed by a wound, for whatever that's worth. On the other hand, they die a bit faster to heavy bolters and the like.
This is more of an educated guess, but S&P might go a way and be replaced with 5" or 4" movement. This would mean that they can now run, making them a little bit faster than what they used to be.

I'm not saying that all will be well, but there are a bunch of promising things around.
I still trust GW to screw this up completely - I'm still bitter about the current codex and its close to useless supplement.

You forgot to mention that whoever charges, strikes first. Unless it's vs slaanesh daemons. Eager to see my meganob kombi-skorcha list of doom.

With the new combi-weapon ruling, I don't think kombi-skorcha will still exist. Kombi-burna seems more likely. Skorcha was meant to be mounted on a vehicle or a one-shot weapon on a big dude. Every turn AND still able to shoot your shoota? Seems too good.

But who knows?

 koooaei wrote:
You forgot to mention that whoever charges, strikes first. Unless it's vs slaanesh daemons. Eager to see my meganob kombi-skorcha list of doom.

True, also half the units stuck in combat from last turn, as you and your opponents alternate between who goes first on those. You will pretty much always want pick the units which weren't attacked yet. You take a lot less casualties when your PK nob and the boyz gets to strike before your enemy does.

Also, burnas striking first with energy weapons.

On combi-skorchas going away:
It's not really worse than a 10 sternguard with combi-meltas. I would not count on them staying 5 points though.

I feel that all our kombi-skorcha will stay but increased in points. They will want to keep the weapon options on their meganobz and nobz sculpts since they are fairly new. Speaking of new models, i am hoping for some new ones to come a bit after the initial release of 8th, would love to have some appropriately sized buggies to use. What do you think will differentiate the roles of the deffkoptas and the buggies now that it isn't vehicle vs jetbike? I can see the buggy being a little bit sturdier while the deffkopta will be more maneuverable.

 biggie_reg wrote:
What do you think will differentiate the roles of the deffkoptas and the buggies now that it isn't vehicle vs jetbike? I can see the buggy being a little bit sturdier while the deffkopta will be more maneuverable.

We have to wait the actual rules of these units. Deffkoptas are useful in 7th because they can jink and eat overwatch, while buggies don't have to test.

If jink and overwatch become different, deffkoptas' role may change.

Buggies, being av10 with 2 HP, can get 4-6 W (and I expect deffkoptas with 3-4 W too) and T6 but they would also get a LD value which makes impossible right now to predict how they're gonna work in 8th and what unit would be more viable and effective.

 Blackie wrote:
Buggies, being av10 with 2 HP, can get 4-6 W (and I expect deffkoptas with 3-4 W too) and T6 but they would also get a LD value which makes impossible right now to predict how they're gonna work in 8th and what unit would be more viable and effective.

We do know how leadership works though. If they get ld 7 like the Gorkanaut, you would have to kill 2 or more T5 (AV12 = T7, AV 13 = T8) models with 4-6W to actually make the test do anything.

Assuming that koptaz don't change a lot, you already got the difference in roles: One is more versatile in what it can do an the other is able to soak a lot more damage before dying.

Strategems are also pretty interesting - for every command point you can reroll one charge per turn, for two you can have one of your charged units strike before whoever has charged. Assaulting more than one ork unit per turn can turn into a big gamble for enemies, as they might lose one of their charging units before it gets to strike.

What does everyone think of the strategems from the Ork's perspective? I feel that we will be using insane bravery most of the time so we don't lose even more from our hordes

 biggie_reg wrote:
What does everyone think of the strategems from the Ork's perspective? I feel that we will be using insane bravery most of the time so we don't lose even more from our hordes

Pretty excited with the stratagems. I don't like it when GW says "You like fielding 4 knights as your army? Well you will still be able to do so!", but I guess such an army will only get a few CP, compared to more balanced armies. Let's just hope stratagems will be strong enough.

I can't wait to see the WAAAGH stratagem! I hope it will be better than the current WAAAGH rule.

Wow, nice post by GW here:

Even if the Ork specific strategems turn out to be a total bust, the generic ones are all useful to us.

Really like what they did here.

Ashkayel wrote:

 biggie_reg wrote:
What does everyone think of the strategems from the Ork's perspective? I feel that we will be using insane bravery most of the time so we don't lose even more from our hordes

Pretty excited with the stratagems. I don't like it when GW says "You like fielding 4 knights as your army? Well you will still be able to do so!", but I guess such an army will only get a few CP, compared to more balanced armies. Let's just hope stratagems will be strong enough.

I can't wait to see the WAAAGH stratagem! I hope it will be better than the actual WAAAGH rule.

Wow, nice post by GW here:

Nice one

This would also work the other way around - if the space marine player was charging, your could spend 2 CP and smash one of his units to bits before they ever get to strike.

 Jidmah wrote:

Ashkayel wrote:

 biggie_reg wrote:
What does everyone think of the strategems from the Ork's perspective? I feel that we will be using insane bravery most of the time so we don't lose even more from our hordes

Pretty excited with the stratagems. I don't like it when GW says "You like fielding 4 knights as your army? Well you will still be able to do so!", but I guess such an army will only get a few CP, compared to more balanced armies. Let's just hope stratagems will be strong enough.

I can't wait to see the WAAAGH stratagem! I hope it will be better than the actual WAAAGH rule.

Wow, nice post by GW here:

Nice one

This would also work the other way around - if the space marine player was charging, your could spend 2 CP and smash one of his units to bits before they ever get to strike.

Which is pretty interesting. If two CC armies fought each other, there would be a tendency to only charge one unit per turn, so you don't get countercharged anywhere. Could lead to some very interesting tactics.

Well, if you charge with 3 or 4 units all in one turn, only one can be overridden using CP, so the 2nd combat would probably see the opponent going first, but in all subsequent cases you'll get to go first unless some bespoken rule bs occurs (it really shouldn't happen often). So if most of your army will be able to charge most of an opponent's, I say go for it. With a little luck, an all out charge could really be devastating to the other army.

 KommissarKiln wrote:
Well, if you charge with 3 or 4 units all in one turn, only one can be overridden using CP, so the 2nd combat would probably see the opponent going first, but in all subsequent cases you'll get to go first unless some bespoken rule bs occurs (it really shouldn't happen often). So if most of your army will be able to charge most of an opponent's, I say go for it. With a little luck, an all out charge could really be devastating to the other army.

This was my thoughts.

30 man boyz could be pretty useful this ed, as their sheer numbers may help with how units are activated, 30 models mitigating losses when the enemy activates, CP for first strike to maybe knock a CCelite unit down a couple models and then from there a slow attrition.

With the whole kombi weapons rules, I wonder whether there will be any benefits for multiple weapon arm dreds this ed. Does split-fire allow a single walker to shoot two targets? I would assume not. But I could envision double flamer dreds pumping out some serious amounts of wounds. Maybe even double kmb. Can't wait to see how the dred mob transfers over. 9 kanz, 3 dreds, Gorka and Morka. The counter charge strat would work wonders in such a low unit count army, as you are probably going to be charged every turn once in CC range, your units will only get to strike once, so why not first on as many turns as possible

 JimOnMars wrote:
Which is pretty interesting. If two CC armies fought each other, there would be a tendency to only charge one unit per turn, so you don't get countercharged anywhere. Could lead to some very interesting tactics.

Your opponent can still counter-attack with an already-in-combat-from-lasr-turn unit after you attacked with your only charging unit. Might still be worth it

Maybe it's exactly 2 charges that would be the worst case.

Yeah... avoid 2 charges when your opponent has over 2 command points.

New 'humies to smash...

Gosh I wonder if they'll be functionally the same to play against as regular Space Marines!

And meanwhile, those 2nd edition wartrakk and warbuggy kits are really starting to reek of severe neglect...

Warhammer 40 000: Space Marines, with guest factions like Chaos and Orks!

So relevant to us is that grenades now appear to function like any other shooting weapon.

D6 S3 hits doesn't sound too bad in Ork sized quantities.

Depending on the grenade rule, of course.

So it looks like we are going to still have trouble with Tau:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/15/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-tau-empire/

They get to shoot freely after falling back! Plus supporting fire is still there, with the new multiple overwatch. Sad day for orks.

At least markerlights were toned down a bit...

Also, keyword for Sept is there, so perhaps Ork klans?

 JimOnMars wrote:
So it looks like we are going to still have trouble with Tau:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/15/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-tau-empire/

They get to shoot freely after falling back! Plus supporting fire is still there, with the new multiple overwatch. Sad day for orks.

only on suits.... I am okay with that... Regular suits needed a buff

JohnU wrote:At least markerlights were toned down a bit...

Also, keyword for Sept is there, so perhaps Ork klans?

Yeah, I think this is spot on! I wonder what level of control we as players will have to associate which klans/sept/chapter keywords with which units?

davou wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
So it looks like we are going to still have trouble with Tau:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/15/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-tau-empire/

They get to shoot freely after falling back! Plus supporting fire is still there, with the new multiple overwatch. Sad day for orks.

only on suits.... I am okay with that... Regular suits needed a buff

Yeah I don't see this being a thing the entire Tau army will get. It'll be a battlesuit thing, which is fine - they could get hit and run before, couldn't they?

 davou wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
So it looks like we are going to still have trouble with Tau:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/15/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-tau-empire/

They get to shoot freely after falling back! Plus supporting fire is still there, with the new multiple overwatch. Sad day for orks.

only on suits.... I am okay with that... Regular suits needed a buff

Drones have the Fly keyword too, and the Stormsurge has it's own rule for falling back and shooting. We'll have to see about the Riptide, but they have jetpacks too...

 davou wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
So it looks like we are going to still have trouble with Tau:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/15/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-tau-empire/

They get to shoot freely after falling back! Plus supporting fire is still there, with the new multiple overwatch. Sad day for orks.

only on suits.... I am okay with that... Regular suits needed a buff

Hopefully so. The markerlight nerf is nice, and I hope they get -1 to cover save instead of ignores cover.

Crossing Fingers.

So.. jump out of combat and still shoot? Snipers to kill all meks and painboys?

Every day new spotlights to show how fethed orks will be! This is an edition written by powergamers for powergamers. Anyone think that they will nerf their precious riptides?

But attackers will strike first? Nope, not anymore due to cp.

So what else do we have?

 jhnbrg wrote:


So what else do we have?

Landraider bustin', Titan slayin' Grots!

 jhnbrg wrote:
So.. jump out of combat and still shoot? Snipers to kill all meks and painboys?

Every day new spotlights to show how fethed orks will be! This is an edition written by powergamers for powergamers. Anyone think that they will nerf their precious riptides?

But attackers will strike first? Nope, not anymore due to cp.

So what else do we have?

It seems that Tau may be the only serious hard counter to Orks, which isn't surprising considering our shared history.

Marines are likely going to get ork-smashed in their beaky faces without grav, immobilized/blowing up trukks and bws, and without free rhinos and initiative. Don't fret!

Edited to add: I just created a new meme: Beaky, lemme smash...

 JimOnMars wrote:

 jhnbrg wrote:
So.. jump out of combat and still shoot? Snipers to kill all meks and painboys?

Every day new spotlights to show how fethed orks will be! This is an edition written by powergamers for powergamers. Anyone think that they will nerf their precious riptides?

But attackers will strike first? Nope, not anymore due to cp.

So what else do we have?

It seems that Tau may be the only serious hard counter to Orks, which isn't surprising considering our shared history.

Marines are likely going to get ork-smashed in their beaky faces without grav, immobilized/blowing up trukks and bws, and without free rhinos and initiative. Don't fret!

But this is JUST the thing i fear with this edition, i am sure that in a twisted sort of way this will be balanced for tournaments but for regular players it is a disaster!
My most regular opponent plays Tau, should i tell him to play marines instead?

I have thousands and thousands of points of painted orks that are becoming just as useless as they have been for a long time and is was really looking forward to this reboot.

This will be a tournament edition aimed at those palyers that happily switches army between each tournamnet. regular players can go feth themselves...

 jhnbrg wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:

 jhnbrg wrote:
So.. jump out of combat and still shoot? Snipers to kill all meks and painboys?

Every day new spotlights to show how fethed orks will be! This is an edition written by powergamers for powergamers. Anyone think that they will nerf their precious riptides?

But attackers will strike first? Nope, not anymore due to cp.

So what else do we have?

It seems that Tau may be the only serious hard counter to Orks, which isn't surprising considering our shared history.

Marines are likely going to get ork-smashed in their beaky faces without grav, immobilized/blowing up trukks and bws, and without free rhinos and initiative. Don't fret!

But this is JUST the thing i fear with this edition, i am sure that in a twisted sort of way this will be balanced for tournaments but for regular players it is a disaster!
My most regular opponent plays Tau, should i tell him to play marines instead?

I have thousands and thousands of points of painted orks that are becoming just as useless as they have been for a long time and is was really looking forward to this reboot.

This will be a tournament edition aimed at those palyers that happily switches army between each tournamnet. regular players can go feth themselves...

Do you have any battlewagons or Trukks? Depending on the rules for disengaging, they may have to leave the board if they are castled too tightly, in which case they can't use their hit and run. If they come out to meet you, they lose a lot of supporting fire.

We may be OK.

The only thing bad for you and your friend is that games will likely be lopsided, but not always in the Tau's favor.

What models do you have?

We still don't have the whole picture settle down. Nobody benefits from f'ing over Orks or any other army.

Tougher transports? Striking first in CC? Just that makes me happy. We'll be fine. And best of all, if we're not fine, GW will lower the cost of our units few months later.

 JimOnMars wrote:

Do you have any battlewagons or Trukks? Depending on the rules for disengaging, they may have to leave the board if they are castled too tightly, in which case they can't use their hit and run. If they come out to meet you, they lose a lot of supporting fire.

We may be OK.

The only thing bad for you and your friend is that games will likely be lopsided, but not always in the Tau's favor.

What models do you have?

I have:
4 mobs of 30 boyz plus enough to make a few more trukk mobs
about 30 nobs
20 lootas
15 burnas
10 tankbustas
10 flash gitz
15 bikes
8 koptas
about 15 characters (warbosses, meks, painboyz)
close to 50 grots
3 mek guns (different options)
5 kannons
5 trukks
2 battlewagons
2 looted wagons
12 killa kanz
1 dread
1 stompa
1 dakka jet

I have probably forgotten some stuff.

We don't know yet, but if you fill your vehicles with boyz you should be able to penetrate pretty far in, losing only a couple a turn.

The kans might be silly resiliant for their cost....we don't know.

If they screw us, they screw us, but it hasn't happened yet. So far it looks like we'll own the middle.

Well how about this way of looking at it. Maybe stormboyz will have some sort of cool disengage? Turn that frown upside down!

It will be interesting to see what happens with artillery with regards to the grot crews. Maybe they will do away with ablative wounds. I imagine the artillery will still have a T value, but I doubt that it will be shared. As without IC's joining units theres almost no times when you'd have a unit with various saves: except artillery.

We haven't even recieved a faction focus article yet. But it seems that with unending overwatch it still won't be possible to charge tau with something footslogging. So, probably go shooty if you want to field hordes. And get a bunch of mek gunz, lootas and...probably flash gits? I don't know, they've never been good. But they have a potential to become something like spawns in sense that one of the worst units in the whole game gets strong overnight.

 koooaei wrote:
We haven't even recieved a faction focus article yet. But it seems that with unending overwatch it still won't be possible to charge tau with something footslogging. So, probably go shooty if you want to field hordes. And get a bunch of mek gunz, lootas and...probably flash gits? I don't know, they've never been good. But they have a potential to become something like spawns in sense that one of the worst units in the whole game gets strong overnight.

I don't know.

Flash Git's issue has always been that you pay way too many points for a melee stat line on a shooting unit, and those points are killed far to easily.
In addition they have always been in a slot that was stacked with our best units, no matter which edition.
If they are supposed to become good, either their points need to drop or their survivability needs to increase. Bringing back 4+ armor would help for example.

As for hordes, I would wait for our actual stat lines. Many things in our codex make little to no sense with some of the currently known rules, so I would expect a lot of things to change, even if only slightly.
If nothing changes, there are still some good news for hordes:
- 'ard boyz are pretty awesome now, as you get to take your saves unless someone is aiming anti-tank weaponry at your boyz
- less wounds from S6 and S7 shooting, as they wound orks on 3+ instead of 2+.
- spacing no longer matters: no more losing droves of orks to flamers and large blasts after finishing combat, being forced out of a transport or moving through narrow spaces on the board.
- you only need to come within 1" to succeed a charge, so basically 1 free inch now
- after a successful charge you can drag all units you can reach with your 3" fight phase move into combat as well, without overwatch. As tau tend to cuddle around their commanders and etherals, you will most likely be able to pull two or more units into each combat.
- after a failed charge, you still get to move your charge distance

And that's only counting confirmed stuff. They also stated that removing models from the front was a big issue, plus characters getting buff bubbles instead of joining units and conferring USR (pain boy?).
Sky is not falling. Not yet.

 Jidmah wrote:

- after a failed charge, you still get to move your charge distance

Is this confirmed?

 JohnU wrote:

 jhnbrg wrote:


So what else do we have?

Landraider bustin', Titan slayin' Grots!

This guy gets it! If Orks get hosed this edition, every tournament opponent will be facing my Grot Army.

The squeaky WAAAGH!!! is the most dangerous WAAAGH!!!

If grots become our only viable unit, I will field an army of them, I swear to Gork and Mork.

Man, i hope grots become more viable than just objective campers. Love grots.

There is the hope that we can use any unit and it has it's place. We do need to realize that some are pretty niche in their role, grots i can see only as fodder, which would be correct with the fluff! Enough fodder can change the battlefield and cause some surprise damage as well. They just need to be cheap/as useful as guardsman if they cost the same.

The niche my grots fill is 'favorite troop choice to paint'

Finding an important niche for every option seems unlikely, at some point some choices in our book will just plain out perform others at most things. However, everything wounding everything is a great way to allow fringe units to slide into lists and not be soo lopsidedly useless vs many matchups and simply just 'in the game' for that one time you really wished you had your flash gitz, but can't bring them because X did everything else better.

Attacker swings first might be hands down the change that puts orkz in a good place. The number of models I can lose in an assault before I even swing can be handfuls and lower my dice count considerably. The activation and stratagem points concept seems to benefit larger assaults as a way to counter smaller units. I think these two changes combined might just make us fill out ork squads to maximize our dice and footprint in CC. Naturally, we have more to lose through morale, depending on strategems work we will likely be constructing lists to fill out troop choices anyways, just to save us from those losses.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mostly excited to post about orkz.

I think we are going to find out that anti tank weapons will randomly do enough damage to sway us away from depending on vehicles. It can be said it will take more than one lascannon shot to ruin a vehicle, but, with units dividing up mixed weapon profiles in the shooting phase better, I think you will see more mixed purpose units complicating ork saturation strategies overall. We will see :p