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There is the hope that we can use any unit and it has it's place. We do need to realize that some are pretty niche in their role, grots i can see only as fodder, which would be correct with the fluff! Enough fodder can change the battlefield and cause some surprise damage as well. They just need to be cheap/as useful as guardsman if they cost the same.

The niche my grots fill is 'favorite troop choice to paint'

Finding an important niche for every option seems unlikely, at some point some choices in our book will just plain out perform others at most things. However, everything wounding everything is a great way to allow fringe units to slide into lists and not be soo lopsidedly useless vs many matchups and simply just 'in the game' for that one time you really wished you had your flash gitz, but can't bring them because X did everything else better.

Attacker swings first might be hands down the change that puts orkz in a good place. The number of models I can lose in an assault before I even swing can be handfuls and lower my dice count considerably. The activation and stratagem points concept seems to benefit larger assaults as a way to counter smaller units. I think these two changes combined might just make us fill out ork squads to maximize our dice and footprint in CC. Naturally, we have more to lose through morale, depending on strategems work we will likely be constructing lists to fill out troop choices anyways, just to save us from those losses.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mostly excited to post about orkz.

I think we are going to find out that anti tank weapons will randomly do enough damage to sway us away from depending on vehicles. It can be said it will take more than one lascannon shot to ruin a vehicle, but, with units dividing up mixed weapon profiles in the shooting phase better, I think you will see more mixed purpose units complicating ork saturation strategies overall. We will see :p

 PipeAlley wrote:

 JohnU wrote:

 jhnbrg wrote:


So what else do we have?

Landraider bustin', Titan slayin' Grots!

This guy gets it! If Orks get hosed this edition, every tournament opponent will be facing my Grot Army.

If they stay 4+ to hit, you will need 36 gretchin shots to ploink an average of one wound off a land raider (or any vehicle we currently know of). If the land raider is as tough as a morkanaut, you would need 648 gretchin shooting at it to kill it in one turn. That is, if you get all of them within 12" of the land raider, of course.

They did actually get better though. They will never run now, even if they suffer a lot of casualties a few of them might survive the following moral phase and stay wherever they are, which means right on that objective they were holding.
You can also use them to form a wrap around charged units to prevent them from disengaging from combat.

 thenewgozoku wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

- after a failed charge, you still get to move your charge distance

Is this confirmed?

I remember it being confirmed on either facebook or during one of the FAQs, but I can't find it anymore because the rumor thread is 90% OT discussion and 10% actual information. Sorry

I saw the 'failed assault actually gets to move' post as well

The recent warhammer community post on tactical reserves just got posted, it looks like stormboyz (and not just ones with Zagstruk) will potentially be useful again with "DEFF FROM THE SKIES!".

- Reserves are (crucially) not random anymore, you get to choose when they come on

- Judging from the Trygon example they use, expect the average distance from your opponent from deep strike to be 9" (no scatter though)

- Assault from reserves all but confirmed!

- For matched play, the restriction of needing at least 50% of your forces on the table is there (not a problem for us, but good against null-deployment/drop-pod lists).

8th ed is definitely looking good as far as having underused units like stormboyz and kommandos becoming usable with the changes to core rules. Now we just have to bank on them getting the points right for the units.

 Grimskul wrote:
The recent warhammer community post on tactical reserves just got posted, it looks like stormboyz (and not just ones with Zagstruk) will potentially be useful again with "DEFF FROM THE SKIES!".

- Reserves are (crucially) not random anymore, you get to choose when they come on

- Judging from the Trygon example they use, expect the average distance from your opponent from deep strike to be 9" (no scatter though)

- Assault from reserves all but confirmed!

- For matched play, the restriction of needing at least 50% of your forces on the table is there (not a problem for us, but good against null-deployment/drop-pod lists).

8th ed is definitely looking good as far as having underused units like stormboyz and kommandos becoming usable with the changes to core rules. Now we just have to bank on them getting the points right for the units.

There was very little about making orks usable in that post, every day some new fantastic options but never anything usefull for the orks. Its starting to look rather dark...

Open Topped is still a thing.

How many burna boyz in battlewagons can I take at 1850 points?

 Grimskul wrote:
The recent warhammer community post on tactical reserves just got posted, it looks like stormboyz (and not just ones with Zagstruk) will potentially be useful again with "DEFF FROM THE SKIES!".

- Reserves are (crucially) not random anymore, you get to choose when they come on

- Judging from the Trygon example they use, expect the average distance from your opponent from deep strike to be 9" (no scatter though)

- Assault from reserves all but confirmed!

- For matched play, the restriction of needing at least 50% of your forces on the table is there (not a problem for us, but good against null-deployment/drop-pod lists).

8th ed is definitely looking good as far as having underused units like stormboyz and kommandos becoming usable with the changes to core rules. Now we just have to bank on them getting the points right for the units.

The tyrgon gets to choose when to come in. There is no reason to think all other units get to do the same.

 Geemoney wrote:


The tyrgon gets to choose when to come in. There is no reason to think all other units get to do the same.

Also no reason to think that things like storm boys will be able to do something similar to deep strike; seems a little too strong for me.

I expect kommandos will get something, but stormboys will need to hoof it.

IF THEY GIVE US ROKKS HOWEVER.....

I want my warboss to have a rokkit pack!

 davou wrote:

 Geemoney wrote:


The tyrgon gets to choose when to come in. There is no reason to think all other units get to do the same.

Also no reason to think that things like storm boys will be able to do something similar to deep strike; seems a little too strong for me.

I expect kommandos will get something, but stormboys will need to hoof it.

IF THEY GIVE US ROKKS HOWEVER.....

If stormboyz have to hoof it, they will probably stay on the self. Deepstriking and sitting around getting shot for a turn doesn't work. You are right it was mentioned that no every unit will get to charge from reserves.

I would like ROKKS, I would also like rokkit packs for Warbosses.

I don't think it would be too strong, it's still at least 9 inches to charge, and stormboyz aren't extremely powerful. But it would make them really useful to trap the enemy!

I just don't see jump pack stuff keeping deep strike; there's not really a reason for them to have it in the fluff and no reason for them to have it from a ballance justification.

Rokkit boys don't screech across the country looking for battles, they show up with the rest of the boys and then light the fuse.

Same with jump marines... They aren't jumping out of star ships and entering the atmosphere like total bad-asses; they just hop over buildings and stuff as they do their work.

Even tau crisis suits deploy from mantas and orcas in the fluff; I suppose they could fly across the landscape towards engagements, but the fuel for that is better preserved for use manuvering in battle.

Burrowing nids appearing on the battlefield makes great sense.

Necrons entering the battlefield from portals in monoliths makes sense.

Termintaors and meganobs teleporting in.... OMG CAN YOU IMAGINE IF NOBS GET TELLYPORTA STRIKE?!

 davou wrote:
I just don't see jump pack stuff keeping deep strike; there's not really a reason for them to have it in the fluff and no reason for them to have it from a ballance justification.

Rokkit boys don't screech across the country looking for battles, they show up with the rest of the boys and then light the fuse.

Same with jump marines... They aren't jumping out of star ships and entering the atmosphere like total bad-asses; they just hop over buildings and stuff as they do their work.

Even tau crisis suits deploy from mantas and orcas in the fluff; I suppose they could fly across the landscape towards engagements, but the fuel for that is better preserved for use manuvering in battle.

Burrowing nids appearing on the battlefield makes great sense.

Necrons entering the battlefield from portals in monoliths makes sense.

Termintaors and meganobs teleporting in.... OMG CAN YOU IMAGINE IF NOBS GET TELLYPORTA STRIKE?!

Agreed, stormboyz shouldn't get "deep strike". Just give them the old +D6" move or something so they can charge units 30" away!

 davou wrote:


Rokkit boys don't screech across the country looking for battles, they show up with the rest of the boys and then light the fuse.

The fluff on Zagstrukk was always that he was leaping out the back of his personal jet zooming overhead and krunching down onto the battlefield- there's definitely strong reasons for stormboyz to deepstrike.

And space marines were jumping out of thunderhawks in orbit.

I'm cool with dropping a no scatter stormboy squad or two if the price is right. They won't get the charge, but one turn of pressure off our transports is probably enough for them to get there this edition.

 biggie_reg wrote:
I don't think it would be too strong, it's still at least 9 inches to charge, and stormboyz aren't extremely powerful. But it would make them really useful to trap the enemy!

This.

What good are the stormboyz going to do with an 8 or less on the charge? After overwatch? Remember, they can't eat overwatch, since everybody can fire an infinite number of times.

This is not strong at all, just giving the opponent another distraction unit, and a weak one at that. The will fail more than they succeed, unless they get a plus to charge range. If not, the stormboyz are weak.

The <hive fleet> keyword in the Trygon rules adds support to the idea that we'll be getting clan keywords. Whatever that may mean.

 JohnU wrote:
The <hive fleet> keyword in the Trygon rules adds support to the idea that we'll be getting clan keywords. Whatever that may mean.

I could see some units having the proper <klan> keyword having improved stats, for example <Evil Sunz> warbikers having 13" move instead of 12". Some minor buffs that could be very fun for customizing your list.

I guess tournament organizers won't be too hard on us ork players with WYSIWYG paint colors...

 JohnU wrote:
The <hive fleet> keyword in the Trygon rules adds support to the idea that we'll be getting clan keywords. Whatever that may mean.

I seriously doubt that - after all, they didn't add a keyword for each different hive fleet, but just one for all. They simple reason is that they don't want Genestealers to crawl out of Trygon tunnels, which are not part of the hive fleet, but could still be played in a tyranid army.

In addition, the declared goal of those keywords is to reduce complexity and make identifying models for rule issues easier, not to hide more rules. What we will probably see is an Orks keyword and a Gretchin keyword to do they usual "Gretchin are too punny to Waaagh!" rule we have always had.

 JimOnMars wrote:

How many burna boyz in battlewagons can I take at 1850 points?

How many boyz would a burna boy burn if a burna boy wound burn boyz?

So in not trying to assume anything, my thoughts on the reserves;

If stormboyz can deepstrike in whatever fashion 9" away. then they would be quite a strong tool for:

pressuring heavy weapons squads

capping an objective on the turn you need it (if we still have the typical mission cards etc..)

Surrounding units in combat. I mean sure, the infinite overwatch "could" hurt like hell, but the ability to on a crucial turn to surround a elite CC unit with boyz and leave it stranded while you deal with the rest of his army. Not to mention you yourself can then just fall back.

Drop behind a vehicle, charge it (because the overwatch isn't going to be all that bad say against a transport), if you succeed you have a PK, if not its going to have a hard time manouvering.

If they cant deepstrike then I imagine they will have something other than simply mobility. I mean so far basically GW have redefined most generic abilities into more fluffy based ones. DS becoming almost specific to the race. Rokkit packs if they get some sort of specific rule I would imagine its either like the old - they explode, but I would hope its more that on the charge they explode into the enemy. Or they will have some serious movement even compared to a marine jet pack. As a marine pack is more of a ability to get over a building. whereas orks are for steaming across the field straight into the enemy

Kommandoz were explicitly named in the article, so you can probably do everything you just said with them. I wonder what Snikrot will do in the new edition.

 Jidmah wrote:
Kommandoz were explicitly named in the article, so you can probably do everything you just said with them. I wonder what Snikrot will do in the new edition.

I own snikrot but haven't had any motivation to paint him for a couple years. I'm especially excited about kommandoez as blood axez are my favorite clan.

My take on the <Hive Fleet> and <Chapter> is so that they have another dial to adjust in order to get the balance right down the road.
For example, you might get rules on a warboss that say that he gives every model in your detachment with the <Klan> keyword the <Speed Freaks> keyword instead. Models with the <Speed Freaks> keyword add 2 to their movement stat, etc.

OK, this was unexpected.

TRUCKS CAN CHARGE.

Seriously, WTF?

So. Move up turn 1, advance. shoot what we can.

Turn 2, disembark, shoot, the Truck eats the overwatch, almost unharmed. Then the boyz walk in.

More importantly, deff rollas might be back.

Apparently, it will be a melee weapon for vehicles

There are exceptions of course – Ork vehicles can be kitted out with some pretty deadly close combat options, which now function just like any other specialist close combat weapon: get hit by a Deathroller, for example, and prepare to be a pancake.

Deff Rollas are BACK, baybee! Load up and roll out ladz.

Call me genuinely excited to actually bring wrecking balls and junk so my trukks can fight good. This is cool news.

 Jidmah wrote:
Kommandoz were explicitly named in the article, so you can probably do everything you just said with them. I wonder what Snikrot will do in the new edition.

Im expecting the kommandoz to potentially be a little bit like how they detailed nurglings. They mentioned that nurglings are going to basically be able to setup almost in the enemy army, as a sort of nasty tarpit. I mean, I dont think they will be a tarpit, but as in that they will have some sort of rule that allows them to deploy in the enemy zone, maybe a reserve arrival into cover.

Snikrot. Well if IC's are now giving area buffs, potentially a cover buff. or a strike from the cover buff. That could be fun.

and charging trukks, yeh i saw that, vehicles in combat! OMG DEFFROLLAS! OMG YOU MIGHT ACTUALLY WANT TO ATTACH THAT GRABBA OR WRECKING BALL!!!!!!!
Could be awesomes!

EDIT: Jambles beat me to it

I'm gonna bet Ork vehicles can hit in a 4+ with wrecking balls and such... Might have to finally consider taking them!