Pacific wrote: Has anyone noticed that these little dudes are now available for pre-order?
Apologies if this is old news.
Respect for the red bows, very old skool eavy metal. I believe this is a kit thats being around for a while, but never been released. I'm personally looking forward to the zombie trolls
I've got plenty of Orcs already, I wonder if they'll release the sprues separately. At the moment it's a bit much to buy the skulks, being as they're $25 for 10 dudes metal upgrade kit or not.
Maybe there will be enough in Dungeon Saga (orc expansion) that I won't need to worry about it just to make a troop or so.
GrimDork wrote: I've got plenty of Orcs already, I wonder if they'll release the sprues separately. At the moment it's a bit much to buy the skulks, being as they're $25 for 10 dudes metal upgrade kit or not.
Maybe there will be enough in Dungeon Saga (orc expansion) that I won't need to worry about it just to make a troop or so.
Zombie Trolls, definitely.
I'd email mantic directly, theres a good chance you could get the bits separately, they have done so in the past
Got my Kickstarter today with the Undead, Ogre and Orc mega bundles. Posted a pic to Kings of War Australia's Facebook page and got a reply from Ronnie Renton himself.
Have to say was looking forward to those Orc archers for ages, converted a few but it was way too time consuming so glad these are finally being released.
I just found some goblin wolf rider bows on a sprue. Only about five or so but I reckon I can stretch those out to make a troop (especially since I tend to use about 7 models for troops anyway). Plenty of quivers and what not. So I guess I can wait.
15% off sale you say? I better stay away just in case...
filbert wrote: Anyone know if the Labor Day discount code is just for North America only or if everyone can use it?
You can test it yourself, codes are entered and subtracted from your cart total before you click the gogominiaturesflytomenow button, but I don't recall them ever being region locked before.
filbert wrote: Anyone know if the Labor Day discount code is just for North America only or if everyone can use it?
You can test it yourself, codes are entered and subtracted from your cart total before you click the gogominiaturesflytomenow button, but I don't recall them ever being region locked before.
Yeah I was going to try it but it seems they have removed the £99 Goblin army deal that sued to be up there. I'll have a look later anyway.
My local store just got a couple of the new boxsets in, they also come with a limited edition necromancer (kinda small robed fella with a dagger). I'm actually tempted to pick one up whilst I wIt for my pledge to arrive, the gamer edition of the rulebook looks pretty sweet. They also have the vampire infantry, dwarf long rifles, abyssal golem and forest shambers in stock.
does anybody know the dispatch date for the abyssal mega armies, I was guessing next year now?
Ogre Hunter render, first KoW mini in a while that's coming to retail rather than Kickstarter. Zombie Trolls coming soon, those and others for November release.
That is a very cool looking model!
Also got my rulebook in the mail - incredibly high production quality, love the size and entering about it
Aftak actually the long rifle/pavise dwarves, the soul reavers and I believe the new necromancer were direct retail releases as well so the ogre hunters aren't the first in anywhere near that long - although direct retail releases certainly have been sparse.
Got my pledge, Virginia, USA, yesterday. Had my DBX freebie teams that everyone got, plus my Dredd referee, and my Kings of War stuff - hardcover, softcover, Blaine, Ronnie, tokens/templates, print.
The book is gorgeous. It's like Mantic is a real big boy company now, sniff sniff, they're all growed up.
judgedoug wrote: Got my pledge, Virginia, USA, yesterday. Had my DBX freebie teams that everyone got, plus my Dredd referee, and my Kings of War stuff - hardcover, softcover, Blaine, Ronnie, tokens/templates, print.
The book is gorgeous. It's like Mantic is a real big boy company now, sniff sniff, they're all growed up.
Whoa whoa whoa - slow down there big fella!
It will be nice when Mantic does unlock this achievement, but I'm not sure they're quite there yet!
judgedoug wrote: Got my pledge, Virginia, USA, yesterday. Had my DBX freebie teams that everyone got, plus my Dredd referee, and my Kings of War stuff - hardcover, softcover, Blaine, Ronnie, tokens/templates, print.
The book is gorgeous. It's like Mantic is a real big boy company now, sniff sniff, they're all growed up.
Whoa whoa whoa - slow down there big fella!
It will be nice when Mantic does unlock this achievement, but I'm not sure they're quite there yet!
They remind me of GW in 1997: tons of enthusiasm, lots of cool games just released and lots more on the horizon, 50/50 mix of cool models and bad models, great community interaction. Making me nostalgic, sniff sniff.
Pacific wrote: Yeah I was going to say that as well, definitely 90's GW. Or 'the Golden Age' as many of us remember that time
Funny thing is that was probably GW's 'Golden Age' (for many of us) and that nowadays, just about everything else in Tabletop Miniature Wargaming is more 'Golden Age' than GW!
Off topic, but it kind of makes me sad. Sort of like growing up and not remaining friends with your old gradeschool/highschool best friends because of differing tastes/etc. I had to cut it off before I started in on the 'getting too expensive' (in regards to GW) and then people had to ask what kind of 'friends' I was referring to
But yeah, there's a lot of lore, lot of nostalgia and positive feeling from my first days in this hobby exclusively with GW.
I'm hoping that Mantic can really pull out all the stops in the fluff department and that their games and lore become the games and lore that I remember in another 10-20 years as 'the good old days', though hopefully they stay grounded and keep being awesome
My golden days with GW were a bit earlier than some of you it seems (early 90s), because by 97 I was out of high school and 100% focused on conquests of the female persuasion, with the sales of those miniatures from years past used to fuel my growing vinyl addiction (which would in turn end up funding my wife's engagement ring- punk rock for capitalism!).
Flipping through the books, seeing all these new games and models coming out... it definitely does take me back to those simpler times in life, and the enjoyment I use to get from GW and their products.
Now if I could only actually get to play more often. In that regard, some things never seem to change...
What? Mine started in 89 with the release of advanced heroquest and died sometime mid 97 with the last WQ release. Let us hope mantic picks up the fallen banner with dungeon saga...
judgedoug wrote: They remind me of GW in 1997: tons of enthusiasm, lots of cool games just released and lots more on the horizon, 50/50 mix of cool models and bad models, great community interaction. Making me nostalgic, sniff sniff.
Perhaps not so ironically, I think this is when Ronnie Renton (head of mantic) was one of the big whigs at GW. If he was running the show then, it would make sense as to why Mantic is like that now.
Off Topic. I feel old, considering I played 40k when it was still called 'Rogue Trader'. Then the big boxed set came out, and Codices, and it really was a 'Golden Age'. I'm impressed at how much of the rogue trader era, GW (or more accurately FW) have been tapping into as of late. I never thought I'd see the return of the War Robots, Conversion beamers, and the jokaero!
I always wondered if there was a secret gaming cabal in my area growing up. My dentist's office was originally a game store that specialized in RPGs and miniatures a good 30+ years ago (very early 80s), and I bought my copy of Rogue Trader at a local B.Dalton Bookstores in a local strip mall, marked up due to being an import, that had an entire gaming section before that ever seemed to be a thing. I am forever indebted to that store for putting me on my path of nerdiness. That store later closed, became a See's Candies, that became a coffee shop, that became a skateboard shop for a long time, and eventually became a vacant building.
I forever remember it as the B.Dalton that got me into gaming. Even drove by it on my way home from work!
I hope we can see more presence in middle America type stores the way GW seemed to be slowly creeping in back then with Mantic. Maybe Dungeon Saga will be the one to slip in and open the floodgates.
Regarding the Mantica background-- my son dug out my copy of WHFB3e a couple of days ago, and we've been looking through it together since then. There's lots of background material, and it all reads like the words of an enthusiastic fan. The Mantic fluff is at least that good, if not better, which puts KoW (at least) squarely in what I consider the Golden Age.
JoshInJapan wrote: Regarding the Mantica background-- my son dug out my copy of WHFB3e a couple of days ago, and we've been looking through it together since then. There's lots of background material, and it all reads like the words of an enthusiastic fan. The Mantic fluff is at least that good, if not better, which puts KoW (at least) squarely in what I consider the Golden Age.
3e book was great, and so was Warhammer Armies.
My favourite 3e book quote was in the painting section where it said you needed good quality brushes as you would never get good results with "an 'orrible bit of yak's tail on a stick"
Slinky wrote: 3e book was great, and so was Warhammer Armies.
I remember few years ago when the previous edition was being put together saying to Ronnie "we need to recapture the feel of 3rd ed whfb and the warhammer armies book".
It seems that everyone's Golden Days of GW are all different periods - but all ending sometime in the last 10 years
For me it was Space Hulk, but I had already been tainted by Hero Quest and Battle Masters. From Space Hulk it went to 40k 2nd (and my Genestealer Cult army) into WHFB 4th. The highlight was Mordheim and Warhammer 6. Then it ended when the WHFB7 army books started coming out. Great ruleset, bad army books. And then the slow death of LOTR, which is a shame, as LOTR was overall the best 28mm minis range ever.
But of course it became easy to follow my favorite writers as they left GW, and witness their magnificent creations when unbound by GW... Andy Chambers with SST, Alessio and Rick with Bolt Action, Alessio with KoW and Terminator.
Gosh, honestly, with the formation of Mantic and Warlord and other companies born from the crumbling of the GW Empire, this is kind of like a new golden age of gaming innovation and enthusiasm.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
lord_blackfang wrote: It's a lovely book. I just wish the rules page numbers would line up in both versions.
Thankfully the rules are slim enough and the sections short enough that someone with the hardcover said "it's in the War Engines section paragraph 3" and it's easy to find for someone with the softback.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
highlord tamburlaine wrote: I always wondered if there was a secret gaming cabal in my area growing up. My dentist's office was originally a game store that specialized in RPGs and miniatures a good 30+ years ago (very early 80s), and I bought my copy of Rogue Trader at a local B.Dalton Bookstores in a local strip mall, marked up due to being an import, that had an entire gaming section before that ever seemed to be a thing. I am forever indebted to that store for putting me on my path of nerdiness. That store later closed, became a See's Candies, that became a coffee shop, that became a skateboard shop for a long time, and eventually became a vacant building.
I forever remember it as the B.Dalton that got me into gaming. Even drove by it on my way home from work!
I hope we can see more presence in middle America type stores the way GW seemed to be slowly creeping in back then with Mantic. Maybe Dungeon Saga will be the one to slip in and open the floodgates.
My brother used to work at B.Dalton, mid 90's - the thing about them is that the employees could order whatever they wanted to stock in the store. He used to order gaming books and kept well-stocked the Lovecraft section. So I'm pretty positive your B.Dalton had a great gaming section specifically because of an employee like my brother
Gw's golden days for me were the late 80s/early 90s. I games at a game store every Saturday night and one of the guys fathers brought in his armies he made in England and brought bac to the states. He taught us all how to play and soon the weekly D&D, Traveller, Cyberpunk and Rifts games gave way to warhammer fantasy. My skaven army began back then. There was a wine and cheese shop in the same plaza so I went and got the names for each skaven based off of actual cheeses . Each week we fought over an outhouse, for some reason every army general needed to use the facilities at the same time and the old world only had one outhouse.
As for Mantic....I hope this isn't their golden age. They have been making some great things, but I think they have a lot of growing to still do before I consider them more than just a cheap warhammer knock off. They've got momentum going and I think Warpath will determine how viable they are. They are definitely THE company to take the biggest bite out of GW, but others have done the same in the past and have gone to dust (no pun there as they weren't a contender).
Oh and the Names are the best part of the warhammer world. this current naming of Blood Blooders and Rage Ragers
Theophony wrote: As for Mantic....I hope this isn't their golden age. They have been making some great things, but I think they have a lot of growing to still do before I consider them more than just a cheap warhammer knock off
I think it's the beginning of theirs.
I assume you mean miniatures, because Kings of War is a vastly different game. Primarily, it rewards tactical movement; that single difference alone makes it a completely different (and superior) game to Warhammer Fantasy, any edition.
But not sure on the miniatures angle either, their elves and orcs are pretty different, aesthetically. Though their undead are pretty similar.
Theophony wrote: As for Mantic....I hope this isn't their golden age. They have been making some great things, but I think they have a lot of growing to still do before I consider them more than just a cheap warhammer knock off
I think it's the beginning of theirs.
I assume you mean miniatures, because Kings of War is a vastly different game. Primarily, it rewards tactical movement; that single difference alone makes it a completely different (and superior) game to Warhammer Fantasy, any edition.
But not sure on the miniatures angle either, their elves and orcs are pretty different, aesthetically. Though their undead are pretty similar.
To be fair how diffrent can you go with undead without hitting steampunk? Skeletons, mummies, etc. don't realy have options beyond outfit and Mantic went with midevil Europe as the main setting.
ChaoticMind wrote: To be fair how diffrent can you go with undead without hitting steampunk?
The race of the dead, their garb, and how they bury their dead. Whether the necromancers are part of that same race or another. Whether the necromancers respect the dead or use them as expendable pawns. Whether the dead are used intact or in aggregate. Whether the body is the component used by the necromancer or the spirit.
Necromancy covers anything from a dwarven necrocracy ruled by a golem animated by the spirit of its king to a human culture that slaughters cattle for food and then uses the bones to build animate engines of war. Even Warhammer Fantasy has the Tomb Kings, the Necromancers and the Vampires as three distinct undead cultures.
ChaoticMind wrote: To be fair how diffrent can you go with undead without hitting steampunk?
The race of the dead, their garb, and how they bury their dead. Whether the necromancers are part of that same race or another. Whether the necromancers respect the dead or use them as expendable pawns. Whether the dead are used intact or in aggregate. Whether the body is the component used by the necromancer or the spirit.
Necromancy covers anything from a dwarven necrocracy ruled by a golem animated by the spirit of its king to a human culture that slaughters cattle for food and then uses the bones to build animate engines of war. Even Warhammer Fantasy has the Tomb Kings, the Necromancers and the Vampires as three distinct undead cultures.
You bring up some great points were the fluff can be radicaly diffrent, but I was thinking about how they look. I'd forgoten about the idea of inhabited golems witch would be rather diffrent visually. I also like the idea of using animal / non-human skeletons instead but they're still skeletons. In the end any skeleton, zombie, mummy, vampire, or necromancer will be the same just in X style clothing rather than Y style.
Ghosts, artificial bodies, and ghouls are the only types that I've seen that can vary in there base form beyond Orc vs human vs dwarf vs etc. and Mantic has chosen floating shrouds and incorporeal humans as there ghosts. I would say there style for ghouls is unique in being deranged humans rather than beastial humans like most others.
Edit. As for there primary focus of human based undead Mantica seems to be the generic fantasy world overflowing with humans and the other races as minorities. Allthough the question remains where are the orc, goblin and ogre undead? They all seem to breed pretty well and are as warlike and decentralized as humans.
I personally suspect other non-human kinds of undead are going to be introduced through Dungeon Saga expansions and then extended into metal/hard plastic KoW lines, much like the Undead Troll is doing right now.
Woot! Got my KS stuff today (less Blaine, 'natch). Nice looking stuff! Good production value, although I'm not 100% sold on the plastic markers yet. But the books look great. And Ronnie is a rather nice sculpt even if I have no idea what I'll do with him...
Polonius wrote: I haven't gotten a shipment, and no email, confirmation, or tracking number.
I know they said to wait until Sept 30 to report missing shipments, but I should be concerned, right?
Unless you specifically paid for a courier I doubt you'd get an email/tracking number etc, mantic stuff just shows up at the door (with stuff missing and random extras you didn't order)
Thanks guys. I'm really in no hurry to get my pledge, I've got plenty of stuff to work on and no active gaming group since I moved.
I have enough faith in Mantic that I know I'll "eventually" get my stuff. And part of me thinks that if they completely forget to ship mine, I can ask them to throw in some of the metal Ogre Command bits to make up for it!
In the Mean time I think I'll just start considering a better nickname for mantic, because Almost isn't quite good enough.
Mantic: At the mercy of the USPS.
I've waited months to hear back from Mantic despite contacting them multiple times for the same issue. On the other hand, they pleasantly surprise me sometimes, too.
Polonius wrote: I haven't gotten a shipment, and no email, confirmation, or tracking number.
I know they said to wait until Sept 30 to report missing shipments, but I should be concerned, right?
I jumped the gun and contacted Rich already. I accidentally sent them the wrong address (due to a move). And it doesn't exist. So that's good. Rich is already looking into it for me. I've asked them to just send it with my Dungeon a Saga pledge, because I don't want them to reship it over my error.
Actually my last two customer service experiences involved:
Warlord Games - packed an Sd.Kfz 251/1 ausf. C kit in the Sd.Kfz 251/1 ausf. D box
Games Workshop - broken Gundabad Orc Swordsmen, and they sent a replacement... Spearmen. Kept sending the wrong items as replacement. By the time they sent the correct item I had gotten over $50 worth of stuff for free (on an $8 model)
Mantic: Results May Vary
Warlord: Close Enough
Games Workshop: Our QC explains our high prices
Actually my last two customer service experiences involved:
Warlord Games - packed an Sd.Kfz 251/1 ausf. C kit in the Sd.Kfz 251/1 ausf. D box
Games Workshop - broken Gundabad Orc Swordsmen, and they sent a replacement... Spearmen. Kept sending the wrong items as replacement. By the time they sent the correct item I had gotten over $50 worth of stuff for free (on an $8 model)
Mantic: Results May Vary
Warlord: Close Enough
Games Workshop: Our QC explains our high prices
If you're completely fair, you'll recognize that those other companies don't show you one model, sell you that model and then actually produce something completely different. GW did switch materials without any/much notice on some of their kits so they have that in common with Mantic. Packing issues continue to plague Mantic more than these other companies as well, though they have improved from what I hear; during the Deadzone 1 shipping they, themselves quoted a >50% mispack rate (can't recall the exact number).
If we want to be anecdotal versus stated reality, I can say that I've had 20+ shipments from GW without any issue whatsoever and 6 shipments from Mantic all with missing items.
Sure, all companies have occasional issues but the difference is if the issues are the norm or exceptions. Mantic is going through some growing pains but ignoring their higher than industry standard issues doesn't serve any purpose.
In the Mean time I think I'll just start considering a better nickname for mantic, because Almost isn't quite good enough.
If you're being completely fair, the origin of this discussion was due to slowness of delivery
Yep, but you moved on from there so I did as well. It doesn't matter a whole lot to me anyway since it's no longer my stuff that's late. (sorry Theophony)
So if we've already moved on from Mantic's old tagline can we then switch it to...
Agnosto...Almost!
I'm in a pretty good place for having gotten my Mantic stuff on-time-ish lately, maybe reverse Karma for that horrible 2 month wait for my initial DZ package.
More on topic... has anyone been watching the boats that are transporting the Dungeon Saga stuff? During the battlezones post KS people were pretty avidly tracking the boat but I haven't been paying that close of attention to DS.
The specific complaint of orders/shipments being late, with little to know communication, is actually pretty specific to Mantic among the established gaming companies.
the last time I ordered from them directly (webstore, not kickstarter) it took them six weeks just to ship my order. Sorry if my confidence level in them isn't very high at this point.
Oddly, I've gotten my other Kickstarter pledges from them with little problem.
Now, very technically, they aren't ignoring my inquiry, but that's only because they straight up told everybody to not even bother inquiring until 9/30. I'm not an expert in customer service, but putting up a flier that reads "don't' bother us for three weeks" ain't it.
Well I got a package from Mantic today. It had my Tyrant king Blaine....still no books or rolando the bard.
Mantic....eventually. Too bad the name infinity is already taken because that seems to be the number of attempts it will take to get this going. I didn't even check for damages as I'm on the way out to the hospital now.
Edit: I stopped by the post office yesterday to see if there were any packages undelivered for me. Nada
Actually my last two customer service experiences involved:
Warlord Games - packed an Sd.Kfz 251/1 ausf. C kit in the Sd.Kfz 251/1 ausf. D box
Games Workshop - broken Gundabad Orc Swordsmen, and they sent a replacement... Spearmen. Kept sending the wrong items as replacement. By the time they sent the correct item I had gotten over $50 worth of stuff for free (on an $8 model)
Mantic: Results May Vary
Warlord: Close Enough
Games Workshop: Our QC explains our high prices
I'm starting to fear that I've struck a nerve. I'm not trying to hurt Mantic so much as make light of their situation with some good-natured ribbing. People say we should vote with our wallets; well, I've spent more money on Mantic than any other miniatures company for the last 4 years. However, there have definitely been some bumps to the relationship, such as delays, bait-and-switch kickstarter add ons, products so bad they've eroded my trust, and the ol' customer service run-around. They have also done some great things for me, too, although usually as a response to a concern or issue with an order of mine. They have some great minis and some terrible minis. I'll buy the great minis and criticize the terrible ones. I'll even criticize the great minis if there are ways Mantic can improve the next plastic kit. Mantic can certainly improve their customer service. Does it make me a hater to point it out?
Oh god no. I play with toy soldiers as a stress reliever. I'm never actually really upset with anything related to this hobby. Everything I type is meant to be read in a monotone computer speech synthesizer voice.
Oh god no. I play with toy soldiers as a stress reliever. I'm never actually really upset with anything related to this hobby. Everything I type is meant to be read in a monotone computer speech synthesizer voice.
Dude, that would totally rock. Put some drums and a synth keyboard to it and you'll have something, a new genre of music; we'll call it "TextMemeSynth" or something.
agnosto wrote: Dude, that would totally rock. Put some drums and a synth keyboard to it and you'll have something, a new genre of music; we'll call it "TextMemeSynth" or something.
I got an email from Mantic encouraging me to fill out a form for missing shipments. Since I haven't gotten anything, I clicked the link. 404 error. Of course.
Remember kids don't fill out the missing item form for the map of Mantica,
you were told in the various updates it had been swapped for the poster...
and despite mantic goofing and offering it in the PM as a Map of Mantica it doesn't count as a missing item
(sigh, Mantic please put the safety catch on before you point the gun at your foot)
and on a less mournful note they don't want (any more) missing item reports for the forces of the abyss/nature stuff that was not intended to ship yet, it clogs up their in boxes and prevents people who have got missing stuff getting in contact
Ok I've lost track of who is getting what when.
I went for sweet spot with Abyssals and Nature and the addons for them not in the small armies. Should I be getting my rule book and Blane yet?
You should have gotten the rulebook and Blaine plus Ronaldo already and all the abyssal and forces are scheduled for November, so most likely a Christmas box for those..... If your lucky.
I was able to fill out the missing parts form at home, so it must have just been my work firewall.
I was a little annoyed that they asked for a bulleted list of everything missing when I didn't get anything at all. Oh well, I just copied and cleaned up the invoice from the pledge manager. Which, alas, reminded me how much I've spent, and how long ago, on toys that I haven't gotten yet.
Well since I have no problem stirring a pot, I spammed the warpath Kickstarter asking for them to respond to all the missing pledges that have been posted in the Kickstarter comments for KOW2. It worked and I got a quick reply that they have shipped out the missing pieces/pledges that people have posted on the 30th. So if you were missing something from wave 1, the. It should be on its way to you. They received lots of people complaining about missing items that were in wave 2, and those people should be getting contacted back letting them know that those aren't missing....yet. I'm sure there's lots of complaints about missing Mantica maps as I kept seeing that comment in the comment section as well.
Next time hopefully Mantic can just post an update or leave comments so people like me don't get upset.
...So we don't get a reply to a missing items report? Ookay, I'm sure that will in no way end up clogging up their inboxes in such a way as to take up more of their time than just sending out a round of quick notifications would have...
judgedoug wrote: Wasn't that the entire text of the last KoW2 update?
For a majority of it (the info about what was and was not wave 1 and the map), yes. But they never stated that they were shipping everything out to the backers who filed a claim, just said okay the three weeks have passed and now you may submit IF.......
judgedoug wrote: Wasn't that the entire text of the last KoW2 update?
For a majority of it (the info about what was and was not wave 1 and the map), yes. But they never stated that they were shipping everything out to the backers who filed a claim, just said okay the three weeks have passed and now you may submit IF.......
Yeah, I have gotten no response to my missing items report for a complete pledge. It's okay, its not like I actually wanted the $300 worth of Ogres and movement trays.
I did get a response to my missing order form (I've not received anything) stating that they couldn't find my details.
I do love the stuff Mantic produces but things like this could put me off. To be fair this is the first problem I've ever had with them but it's a pretty big one.
Nick Ellingworth wrote: I did get a response to my missing order form (I've not received anything) stating that they couldn't find my details.
Yep, got the same today. Apparently they can't find anything against my email address for KoW2 or the still-to-arrive DBX. Even though I got my metal necromancer (only thing I ordered extra to the book) months ago with a note saying 'rules to follow'. Which is weird, as on Tuesday the first response to my missing items form said that the stuff had been 'shipped yesterday and should be with you in a few working days'.
Nick Ellingworth wrote: I did get a response to my missing order form (I've not received anything) stating that they couldn't find my details.
Yep, got the same today. Apparently they can't find anything against my email address for KoW2 or the still-to-arrive DBX. Even though I got my metal necromancer (only thing I ordered extra to the book) months ago with a note saying 'rules to follow'. Which is weird, as on Tuesday the first response to my missing items form said that the stuff had been 'shipped yesterday and should be with you in a few working days'.
that's pretty lousy. They seem to know that I exist, because I got my digital rulebook, and when I updated my shipping address, I got confirmation in July that they updated it.
(even if they sent it to my old address, USPS would have forwarded it to me here).
These are some troubling issues here, I hope that you all get what you pledged for as soon as possible. It is odd that after so many Kickstarters that Mantic still have problems, and not just minor ones, with fulfillment.
It seams that all the people in the warehouse who pick and ship the orders are too busy watching the Warpath Kickstarter "skyrocket" and can't be bothered to fix the mistakes. Either that or "it's not their job". Either way it really is a sad display of Mantic almost at their finest.
One of the weaknesses of a passed-down oral tradition is that small errors are inevitable, and over time the original meaning can be lost.
"...And so it came to pass that on the 4th Day of Shipping, Mantic did ship one God of War pledge and one Tyrant king Blaine to Highlord Tamburlaine, residing in Springfield town, in the state of California in the nation of The States United.
"..And it came to pass that on this same day, Mantic did ship one God of War pledge and one dice bag to Barzam, residing in Springfield town, in the state of California, in the nation of The States United..
"...
"...
"...And it came to pass that on this same day, Mantic did ship one Tyrant King Blaine to Deez Nuts, residing in Hackensack, in the state of New Jersey, in thenation....
....
And so it came to pass that all was good. Almost."
Uncharted Empires is in layout this week and next before it's checked over and proofed. Then it goes to print towards the end of the month with the retail release in November (end of I am guessing).
Well, I suppose I would accept a God Of War pledge as payment for my missing stuff. Unless said pledge turned out to be comprised of elves and goblins.
Polonius wrote: They seem to know that I exist, because I got my digital rulebook,
Thanks for reminding me about that, I think tomorrow I'll give them the date I received the message about that, and also my tracking numbers from the first part of both shipments. If they can't find me after that, then who knows what's going on up there!
Polonius wrote: They seem to know that I exist, because I got my digital rulebook,
Thanks for reminding me about that, I think tomorrow I'll give them the date I received the message about that, and also my tracking numbers from the first part of both shipments. If they can't find me after that, then who knows what's going on up there!
It's obvious that they sent your book to me! And I wasn't even in the KS! It's a very nice book that I may let you borrow.....maybe
I mean, from a long view, I'd rather be the person to get delayed. I don't have a gaming group since I moved, I've got other stuff to work on, and I have at least a playable Ogre army if I did find people. So if anybody was going to get delayed, it makes sense for it to be me.
Now, I won't complain if they want to throw me a little extra for being patient...
Mmmmm... Uncharted Empires needs to go up for preorder ASAP. My wife is getting me assorted Tomb Kings kits for my birthday with an Empire of Dust army being my big hobby goal for first quarter 2016.
I backed everything starting with DZ and I have had stuff missing in every wave of every KS.
Except KoW2 wave 1, where everything was there but included a note saying sorry that it's not all there.
Oh, admittedly in one case it was UPS driving over the package with a forklift, repacking what they could scavenge into a new box and nonchalantly delivering it as if nothing was wrong.
RiTides wrote: Is "Uncharted Empires" the book for more fantasy cross-over armies? I'll totally get that - the KOW second edition rulebook is incredibly well made.
Exactly. It has a lot more "analogs" to WHFB armies, but also some fun ideas all Mantic's own. The beta test lists were exceptionally fun.
Lots of new lists in there, the book is written by Matt Gilbert of the rules committee (and writer of the DS adventure game books.. which still deserve a print release!).
The two new "secret" army lists are very cool concepts, one is an "old favourite" of sorts, and the other is something I haven't seen done before in wargames.
There are more expansion books planned, Northern Alliance and KoW Historical.
Should be around 30-40 total army lists for the game within the next year or so.
Polonius wrote: They seem to know that I exist, because I got my digital rulebook,
Thanks for reminding me about that, I think tomorrow I'll give them the date I received the message about that, and also my tracking numbers from the first part of both shipments. If they can't find me after that, then who knows what's going on up there!
So I sent the email this morning with that, and got an out-of-office reply from the guy dealing with the issue. Brilliant.
Hey you've got a response, and know your email hit his in box,
that's a step up from most of the Mantic 'issues' reporting that went on previously where all you got was silence and the sinking feeling you'd need to try again
KoW historical would probably be the only way I ever played HIstorical.
Not intended as a insult to historical gaming enthusiasts. I just have zero interest in recreating historical battles. However facing Armies of Mantica against real world forces, like the Roman Empire, seems pretty awesome to me.
Finally, gives me an ecxuse to build an army of 300 Spartans
adamsouza wrote: KoW historical would probably be the only way I ever played HIstorical.
Not intended as a insult to historical gaming enthusiasts. I just have zero interest in recreating historical battles. However facing Armies of Mantica against real world forces, like the Roman Empire, seems pretty awesome to me.
Finally, gives me an ecxuse to build an army of 300 Spartans
It's good that you posted the link or nobody would have gotten the reference
Just got my email from Rich. They are out of stock on the wound trackers and counter sets for the people who were missing their pledge. No restock till November. They did ask if I would like to get everything in one order(wait till November, which probably means December as I've only seen them say the month and items usually get there at the end of the month and shipped later), or if I would like to have what they have in stock shipped now. I chose now as my local store has sold out for the third time and I'm still using the PDF.
So much for them having shipped the missing orders last week like we were told in the updates.
Polonius wrote: I still haven't heard anything since filling out my lost order form on October 1st.
Are they actually filling these, or is the radio silence just an indication that they're hoping we go away?
I received a missing items package very quickly. I ended up getting everything I was missing, and a few bonuses (as I had some significant missing items initially), and they arrived much faster than I expected.
Polonius wrote: I still haven't heard anything since filling out my lost order form on October 1st.
Are they actually filling these, or is the radio silence just an indication that they're hoping we go away?
I received a missing items package very quickly. I ended up getting everything I was missing, and a few bonuses (as I had some significant missing items initially), and they arrived much faster than I expected.
good to hear they are at least processing some orders.
I posted a question on their facebook page. I hate to be this guy, but it's pissing me off that I see people playing KoW at the FLGS, I got people saying they'd like a demo, and I don't have my books or the huge Ogre army I pledged for.
They have a ton of them to get through I think so it's taking time. Lots of people didn't bother to complete their pledge managers and some people even managed to delete their reward level before checking out (!) so there's lots to wade through.
mattjgilbert wrote: They have a ton of them to get through I think so it's taking time. Lots of people didn't bother to complete their pledge managers and some people even managed to delete their reward level before checking out (!) so there's lots to wade through.
Yeah, I hear that, but maybe they should spend less time faffing about with people that can't follow directions, throw some ogres and a book in a box, and mail me my stuff.
Well to let you know how backlogged they are I finally got a response to a email from over a month ago concerning my Dungeon Saga Pledge. I was a late backer and couldn't remember my full pledge. Rich sent me a response for that so now that he isn't tied up with all those pesky Kickstarters they can turn their computers on and check email again .
Theophony wrote: Well to let you know how backlogged they are I finally got a response to a email from over a month ago concerning my Dungeon Saga Pledge. I was a late backer and couldn't remember my full pledge. Rich sent me a response for that so now that he isn't tied up with all those pesky Kickstarters they can turn their computers on and check email again .
Again, I really do understand that they are (bizarrely, after multiple kickstarters have shown them exactly how much work is required) understaffed, but I think you can see why I'm annoyed they are focusing on late backers and folks that didn't complete their Pledge Manager properly, instead of, you know, shipping me my stuff when I pledged on time and completed the PM.
Knowing Mantic I'd speculate that perhaps they are sold out of something they need to send you,
so are putting off dealing with it until replacements come in (at which time cross your fingers that nothing else in your order has gone out of stock in the interim)
Decided to look up how Dungeon Saga is going on while waiting....they are two months late on that and still no communications. They said big update for that Oct 1. But then posted an update saying the update will be late. I think that ship is due in over the next week or so and they will have their hands full of more Kickstarter issues then and we will get dumped to the curb again.
Huh, it really does say August. Totally forgot about that. Guess I'm not terribly concerned, too much to do anyway. Does suck for people who were really pining for it though, and apparently little to no communication too. I just checked the kickstarter comments and it sounds like a meeting for people with abandonment issues. I'm lost for as to how I didn't realize it was already a couple of months late lol.
They've given the ship tracking for the ship that has the container of Dungeon Saga. I'm not really sure what other updates they can provide regarding that? Maybe more model shots?
Yeah I'm not worried one whit. I just noticed the comments section on the kickstarter was all doom and gloom and thought it was kind of crazy that I hadn't even noticed. I'll get excited for it when they give me the ship notice or at least let us know when it's coming out on trucks. I don't think they've gone belly-up and are spending all of the warpath kickstarter money on hookers and blow.
It is a concern, however, that Mantic has officially traded on quality in order to meet deadlines for the previous Kickstarters. So, apparently the quality they sacrificed on the last two Kickstarters was for nothing?
Also a concern that these are finally hitting their warehouse SOON, which means that if they don't get these KOW2 issues resolved right fracking now that they are going to get lost in the hustle and bustle of this wave of Kickstarter goodness. Then infestation will come along and then the warpath, they aren't leaving themselves much time to fix things and I'm sure that there will be more kickstarters in The mean time to waffle on about as well.
I hope there aren't too many for a while. Let some of the dust settle and get all the outstanding orders cleared, the dungeon crawl out into the wild, the new plastics out, then we can talk more kickstarters.
Unless it's a Mordheim/ Deadzone type game, and then screw it, I'm in, "true" shipping or not.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: It is a concern, however, that Mantic has officially traded on quality in order to meet deadlines for the previous Kickstarters. So, apparently the quality they sacrificed on the last two Kickstarters was for nothing?
Not quite sure what you're saying. Are you saying that in the past Mantic was prompt but sacrificed quality to rush things out? Or now they're not as prompt but trying to reach as high a level of quality as possible with their current methods as possible and that means the previous KS were for nothing? Cause that seems like one of those catch-22s. Either they're prompt at which point people complain they've sacrificed quality or they try and achieve quality and then people complain they're late.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: It is a concern, however, that Mantic has officially traded on quality in order to meet deadlines for the previous Kickstarters. So, apparently the quality they sacrificed on the last two Kickstarters was for nothing?
No? They traded on quality to meet deadlines on Kings of War, it got them burned, so from then on they decided to do it the other way around, and trade meeting deadlines for quality. They did a post about it in one of the projects, or a blog, can't recall exactly where and when.
Sining wrote: Either they're prompt at which point people complain they've sacrificed quality or they try and achieve quality and then people complain they're late.
Or they quit lying during the "secure pre-orders" phase, and don't promise a combination of quality and speed that they are incapable of delivering.
Or they quit lying during the "secure pre-orders" phase, and don't promise a combination of quality and speed that they are incapable of delivering.
That's laying it on a bit strong. Unless you have some sort of proof that they are fully aware that they will be unable to deliver on those promises and are making them regardless.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: I hope there aren't too many for a while. Let some of the dust settle and get all the outstanding orders cleared, the dungeon crawl out into the wild, the new plastics out, then we can talk more kickstarters.
Unless it's a Mordheim/ Deadzone type game, and then screw it, I'm in, "true" shipping or not.
GrimDork wrote: Yeah I'm not worried one whit. I just noticed the comments section on the kickstarter was all doom and gloom and thought it was kind of crazy that I hadn't even noticed. I'll get excited for it when they give me the ship notice or at least let us know when it's coming out on trucks. I don't think they've gone belly-up and are spending all of the warpath kickstarter money on hookers and blow.
The comments section is bordering on embarrassing tbh, pretty much the equivalent of having the kids in the back of the car asking "are we there yet" about 2000 times. Lack of communication is frustrating, but it's a truly bizarre time to be complaining about it, when all the orders are on boats in the middle of the bloody ocean. Maybe I'm just a bit more relaxed than some people, but the sense of entitlement and levels of "outrage" is just strange to me.
I am super excited about Dungeon Saga, but I'm getting it delivered to my parent's place in Ireland anyhow, so I don't think I'll be able to pick it up til early November in any case.
GrimDork wrote: Yeah I'm not worried one whit. I just noticed the comments section on the kickstarter was all doom and gloom and thought it was kind of crazy that I hadn't even noticed. I'll get excited for it when they give me the ship notice or at least let us know when it's coming out on trucks. I don't think they've gone belly-up and are spending all of the warpath kickstarter money on hookers and blow.
The comments section is bordering on embarrassing tbh, pretty much the equivalent of having the kids in the back of the car asking "are we there yet" about 2000 times. Lack of communication is frustrating, but it's a truly bizarre time to be complaining about it, when all the orders are on boats in the middle of the bloody ocean. Maybe I'm just a bit more relaxed than some people, but the sense of entitlement and levels of "outrage" is just strange to me.
And they're... trackable. You can see where the damn boat is as well as the ETA for it to arrive in port. Why are people so fething stupid?
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: Knowing Mantic I'd speculate that perhaps they are sold out of something they need to send you,
so are putting off dealing with it until replacements come in (at which time cross your fingers that nothing else in your order has gone out of stock in the interim)
They responded to my Facebook post by saying that Rich was almost done going through them.
So, either I was forgotten again, or my issue went to the bottom of the pile.
either way, I feel slightly better that they seem aware that I'm annoyed.
GrimDork wrote: Yeah I'm not worried one whit. I just noticed the comments section on the kickstarter was all doom and gloom and thought it was kind of crazy that I hadn't even noticed. I'll get excited for it when they give me the ship notice or at least let us know when it's coming out on trucks. I don't think they've gone belly-up and are spending all of the warpath kickstarter money on hookers and blow.
The comments section is bordering on embarrassing tbh, pretty much the equivalent of having the kids in the back of the car asking "are we there yet" about 2000 times. Lack of communication is frustrating, but it's a truly bizarre time to be complaining about it, when all the orders are on boats in the middle of the bloody ocean. Maybe I'm just a bit more relaxed than some people, but the sense of entitlement and levels of "outrage" is just strange to me.
And they're... trackable. You can see where the damn boat is as well as the ETA for it to arrive in port. Why are people so fething stupid?
Yeah... unless this is literally your first kickstarter, and you've spent no time on the internet, you have to be aware that production in China introduces plenty of garbage.
Surely people have learned by now that you put money on Kickstarter in return for a product at an unspecified future date? It is one of the reasons that I never use kickstarter, since I'd rather buy now receive now, even at normal prices.
JoshInJapan wrote: Is anyone besides me still waiting for their Blaine-on-dinosaur?
Nope, got my Blaine on Dino, but nothing else, so between the two of us Mantic fulfilled one Kickstarter order I guess. That's the fuzzy logic that they'll use to promote the next one.
Daston wrote: Does anybody know when we will see the remaining Warhammer faction PDFs?
iirc the release is scheduled for November
I think printing is in November, then it'll be shipped to them, probably shipped to stores in Jan/feb......they'll get lost on the way so a second printing will happen next year and they will wait till 2017 to let stores tell them items are missing. But don't worry the next Kickstarter should be up any day now. (Not bitter at all)
Man... for not bitter you sure do post tons of negativity any chance you get, Theo. :-p
The book should be available digitally around end of November, and at retail relatively soon thereafter. That said, the .pdfs are all up now in their final beta state. As of their last iteration they're literally what you'll find in the book.
To be honest, the rest of us can all be happy that we all got our stuff but it's like mid October now and this missing gak should have been taken care of already.
Amen to that. Lord knows I've usually been quite happy to deal with some of Mantic's fulfilment issues (and I've had my share of those!) but I'm getting sick of still not having any of my stuff to hand.
(Heh, when I demo KoW to disgruntled WHFB players now and they ask about physical rulebooks I have to give the sort of answer that doesn't really instil confidence in Mantic as a company - I'm fairly sure they're shooting themselves in the foot there if nothing else)
Bolognesus wrote: (Heh, when I demo KoW to disgruntled WHFB players now and they ask about physical rulebooks I have to give the sort of answer that doesn't really instil confidence in Mantic as a company - I'm fairly sure they're shooting themselves in the foot there if nothing else)
I had a guy at the FLGS ask about KOW, and I talked about how great it was. He said he wanted to demo it... and I had to admit that I was still waiting on physical books and my other army...
There aren't a lot of moment's like this to really grab an opportunity. For all my shot taking at Mantic, I think KOW is one of the best minis rulesets I've played.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Man... for not bitter you sure do post tons of negativity any chance you get, Theo. :-p
The book should be available digitally around end of November, and at retail relatively soon thereafter. That said, the .pdfs are all up now in their final beta state. As of their last iteration they're literally what you'll find in the book.
I do post a lot about it, but when you enjoy something and it's kept from you you get bitter...which I'm not....okay I am, but it could have been avoided.
Digital will probably wind up at beast of war before being generally available.
Bolognesus wrote: (Heh, when I demo KoW to disgruntled WHFB players now and they ask about physical rulebooks I have to give the sort of answer that doesn't really instil confidence in Mantic as a company - I'm fairly sure they're shooting themselves in the foot there if nothing else)
I had a guy at the FLGS ask about KOW, and I talked about how great it was. He said he wanted to demo it... and I had to admit that I was still waiting on physical books and my other army...
There aren't a lot of moment's like this to really grab an opportunity. For all my shot taking at Mantic, I think KOW is one of the best minis rulesets I've played.
Yup. The ruleset is really, really good, they've had quite a few good models in their lines for a while and on balance a lot of the stuff keeps getting better and better, DZ is heading for a marked improvement on what is already a damn good system - and they keep fething up like this. Every. Damn. Time. I'm guessing between the two of us we'd likely have pushed another 2 or more players their way by now if they'd just ironed out their piss poor logistics a little. Really frustrating.
My Trollbloods are ready to demo as an Ogre army at a moment's notice!
Of course, never really having a free moment to waste a day at the game store means I have no idea when that will actually occur, but they're ready... and waiting.
Of course, never really having a free moment to waste a day at the game store means I have no idea when that will actually occur, but they're ready... and waiting.
They may be waiting for a long time though.
That's okay, you'll be ready when the rest of us get our stuff .
And now for some insane random speculation: is one of the secret armies in the new book going to be a sci-fi faction? I would laugh really hard if it's Mars Attacks martians or something.
TheWaspinator wrote: And now for some insane random speculation: is one of the secret armies in the new book going to be a sci-fi faction? I would laugh really hard if it's Mars Attacks martians or something.
Yeah, they've kept that secret actually pretty close. I have no clue what they are.
heartserenade wrote: Mantic should hire more people so they're not that understaffed. Surely, the influx of WHFB players gave them more money to play with?
Who are probably not using Matic models but their WHFB ones so there is no cashflow there.
heartserenade wrote: Mantic should hire more people so they're not that understaffed. Surely, the influx of WHFB players gave them more money to play with?
Well after Mantic missed their KoW delivery window by 3 months already*, managed to forget who I was or what I had ever pledged for, and are now telling me it'll take another "couple of weeks" to get it sorted, I'm glad I only put $1 in on Warpath.
Can't believe I'm probably going to have go through this again for DZ2. At least my DKQ pledge was only the 4 resin 'bosses' to go into the KoW Undead army I'm rapidly losing interest in.
* I do realise that 3 months is actually quite good for KS projects on average; but this is Mantic, who pride themselves on their ability to cut any corner to meet, or at least almost meet, any deadline
TheWaspinator wrote: And now for some insane random speculation: is one of the secret armies in the new book going to be a sci-fi faction? I would laugh really hard if it's Mars Attacks martians or something.
Yeah, they've kept that secret actually pretty close. I have no clue what they are.
Of course it won't be Mars Attacks martians! Mars Attacks humans on the other hand... :p
TheWaspinator wrote: And now for some insane random speculation: is one of the secret armies in the new book going to be a sci-fi faction? I would laugh really hard if it's Mars Attacks martians or something.
Yeah, they've kept that secret actually pretty close. I have no clue what they are.
Of course it won't be Mars Attacks martians! Mars Attacks humans on the other hand... :p
Did anybody else get the form email this morning from mantic saying they are working through the piles of missing item forms and will get to us in order of oldest to newest? two weeks after they get swamped they finally respond . "Alright guys, coffee breaks over"
Theophony wrote: Did anybody else get the form email this morning from mantic saying they are working through the piles of missing item forms and will get to us in order of oldest to newest? two weeks after they get swamped they finally respond . "Alright guys, coffee breaks over"
I did, oddly enough, I actually got a package on Wednesday as well! It has my books, blaine, Ronnie, the wound counters, and two ogre mega armies, but only two of the dozen or so MDF trays I ordered. The invoice marked them as "to follow." I have no idea if this was the original shipment, long delayed, or the corrected shipment that arrived quickly.
I responded to the email with a "thanks, I got a package missing parts," and also replied to my facebook post that I had received at least the bulk of my pledge.
Theophony wrote: Did anybody else get the form email this morning from mantic saying they are working through the piles of missing item forms and will get to us in order of oldest to newest? two weeks after they get swamped they finally respond . "Alright guys, coffee breaks over"
I did, oddly enough, I actually got a package on Wednesday as well! It has my books, blaine, Ronnie, the wound counters, and two ogre mega armies, but only two of the dozen or so MDF trays I ordered. The invoice marked them as "to follow." I have no idea if this was the original shipment, long delayed, or the corrected shipment that arrived quickly.
I responded to the email with a "thanks, I got a package missing parts," and also replied to my facebook post that I had received at least the bulk of my pledge.
Glad that you got something finally.
Also excited for dungeon saga. I didn't get any add ons for that, so it should go smooth....wait, I didn't get add one for my living led ends pledge either....
Theophony wrote: Did anybody else get the form email this morning from mantic saying they are working through the piles of missing item forms and will get to us in order of oldest to newest? two weeks after they get swamped they finally respond . "Alright guys, coffee breaks over"
Pretty cool, the way they are answering concerns with the video and you can tell they care about their customers. One problem I see though, since I work in manufacturing is that their line set up seems to be running back on itself, which is going to gum things up a bit and possibly cause some mistakes and delays when packaging and setting up deliveries for shipment.
Theophony wrote: Did anybody else get the form email this morning from mantic saying they are working through the piles of missing item forms and will get to us in order of oldest to newest? two weeks after they get swamped they finally respond . "Alright guys, coffee breaks over"
I did, oddly enough, I actually got a package on Wednesday as well! It has my books, blaine, Ronnie, the wound counters, and two ogre mega armies, but only two of the dozen or so MDF trays I ordered. The invoice marked them as "to follow." I have no idea if this was the original shipment, long delayed, or the corrected shipment that arrived quickly.
I responded to the email with a "thanks, I got a package missing parts," and also replied to my facebook post that I had received at least the bulk of my pledge.
Pretty cool, the way they are answering concerns with the video and you can tell they care about their customers. One problem I see though, since I work in manufacturing is that their line set up seems to be running back on itself, which is going to gum things up a bit and possibly cause some mistakes and delays when packaging and setting up deliveries for shipment.
Won't be a problem if they only have one person picking the orders
heartserenade wrote: Mantic should hire more people so they're not that understaffed. Surely, the influx of WHFB players gave them more money to play with?
Pretty cool, the way they are answering concerns with the video and you can tell they care about their customers. One problem I see though, since I work in manufacturing is that their line set up seems to be running back on itself, which is going to gum things up a bit and possibly cause some mistakes and delays when packaging and setting up deliveries for shipment.
Won't be a problem if they only have one person picking the orders
I see what you did there!
Seriously, with a rearrangement of the line, they could get those orders packed and shipped in a fairly short time. Just looking at it, I saw a few ways it could be better set up.
Fromwhat Ronnie is saying in the vid I'd guess this is now it looked just after they got the pallets in and took the vid, and it will need rearranging once the other shipment(s?) come in anyway. So likely not the final placement for order-picking. (If only since they would rather struggle to fit another load like this in just that footprint, and that's apparently what's still to come).
Yea, while nice in and of itself the cover doesn't really fit with the main rulebook. No big problem of course but since they are so closely conected it would be nice to have them both in a consistent artstyle.
I do like the text snippet:
Next week we will delve into the pages of the book and some sneaky previews of new miniatures for the Elves, Abyssal Dwarfs, Ogres, Orcs, and Undead…
Zywus wrote: Yea, while nice in and of itself the cover doesn't really fit with the main rulebook. No big problem of course but since they are so closely conected it would be nice to have them both in a consistent artstyle.
I do like the text snippet:
Next week we will delve into the pages of the book and some sneaky previews of new miniatures for the Elves, Abyssal Dwarfs, Ogres, Orcs, and Undead…
Could there be zombietrolls on the way?
One of Mantic's retailers posted this up on the Mantic forum:
Elf Dragon Kindred Lord
Abyssal Dwarf Supreme Iron-caster on Great Winged Halfbreed
Undead Zombie Troll Regiment - RETAIL LINE - NOT KS Ogre Hunters - RETAIL LINE - NOT KS Ogre Chariot Regiment - RETAIL LINE - NOT KS Ogre Red Goblin Biggit - RETAIL LINE - NOT KS Orc Godspeaker - RETAIL LINE - NOT KS
We have now started shipping the Dungeon Saga Kickstarter.
Here are 5 Things you need to know about the Dungeon Saga Kickstarter Dispatch – please read this update carefully.
1) Carton A and Carton B
In Ronnie’s video on Friday, the boss man introduced the terms Carton A and Carton B. To clear up any confusion:
Carton A is a single package that includes:
•Dungeon Master pledge. Pure and simple.
Carton B is a single package that includes:
•Dungeon Master Pledge
•The Warlord of Galahir Expansion
•Infernal Crypts Expansion
•The Tyrant of Halpi Expansion
•Upgraded Adventurer’s Companion Collector’s Edition Hardback Rulebook
•Free Kickstarter Exclusive ‘Book Box’
All Carton A’s and Carton B’s are being dispatched from the UK EXCEPT those going to the USA, Australia and New Zealand.
Carton A’s and Carton B’s going to the USA are being dispatched from the USA.
Carton A’s and Carton B’s going to Australia and New Zealand are being dispatched from Australia.
2) Everything else is being shipped from the UK
Anything that is not a Carton A or Carton B as described above is shipping from the UK.
For example:
If you are based in the USA and you pledged for a Dungeon Master pledge and a Tyrant of Halpi expansion set, it will arrive in two packages a few weeks apart:
•Tyrant of Halpi expansion, shipped from the UK •Carton A, containing the Dungeon Master pledge, shipping from the USA
3) We’ve started shipping non-Carton A and Carton B items to the US, Australia and New Zealand…
As a matter of priority, almost all add-ons going to the US, Australia and New Zealand have been shipped from our warehouse in the UK first.
You WILL receive these a few weeks BEFORE you receive your game, which will be sent separately.
We are waiting on stock for one or two items to come into our UK warehouse, namely the resin Dungeon Traps, to complete sending the add-ons to these territories.
4) …and we’ve started sending Carton A’s to the UK, EU and the Rest of the World
We have started sending the first Carton A’s (Dungeon Master pledges) out.
5) It’s going to take several weeks to complete the dispatch – please give it until the 7th December to get in touch!
We have over 5,500 pledges to send out – that’s a lot of orders!
We have staffed up both our despatch team and customer service team to ensure that this all goes as smoothly as we can make it, but please be aware it is still going to take several weeks to get everything shipped out, and for it to arrive at your house.
We estimate that, barring any unforeseen problems (which we’ll keep you up to date on), everything should have arrived by the 7th December.
If your pledge has not arrived by Monday 7th December, please get in touch using the form here. Please fill out the form with the details you signed up to the Kickstarter with (backer name and email address). This will speed up your request.
Missing Items
We have taken every step to try and ensure that your pledge rewards are picked and packed as accurately as we can, but unfortunately sometimes errors do happen.
Please check your pledge rewards carefully when you receive them. We include a picking list so that you can check the contents off against what you should have received.
If you do think something is missing, please compile a complete list and fill out the form here, using the name and email address you signed up to the Kickstarter with.
Whilst we understand it can’t always be helped, we ask that you only try and fill out the form once.
Preview: Dungeon Journal and Kickstarter Exclusives
This 80 page book contains all of the Dwarf King’s Hold scenarios, as well as adventures featuring:
Keldan!
Logan!
Tyrant King Blaine!
Hordin and Gnasher!
It’s an action packed book - and there’s even more content to come.
With the development time spent on all of the boxed game scenarios, the scenarios in the 4 expansion packs, the missions included in the Dungeon Journal and the ability to make your own adventures in the Adventurer’s Companion – including laying them out, proofing and play-testing, some of the mini-campaigns did not get the development time we felt they deserved before the book had to go to print, so we've kept them back and decided to release them in a rather cool way.
Whilst you devour the adventures we’ve set out for you and play through the story (and even create your own!) we will develop these free scenarios for you properly and release them as a part of a Digital Journal for you to play a couple of months apart, meaning you’ve got a very good excuse to get the game out again and again.
This digital Dungeon Journal will include the mini-campaigns funded during the campaign, such as Unholy Crusades, Green Tide and the Black Fortress. You can expect the first mini-campaign Q1 next year
And with that, the Dungeon Saga flood gates have opened! More updates are coming soon.
Thanks,
Chris!
(Picture included to prove I'm not Rich's imaginary friend - which will probably only make sense to about 2 backers but whatever...)
Cool so anytime between now and early December I can expect some kind of addons... if I ordered any.. don't remember at this point. And sometime within the next 6 weeks or so, my two books+expansions thing, carton B.
Did we ever see what the finished trap sculpts would look like? I know there were the ones on the KS page, but that's all that was shown, wasn't it? Or did I just block the rest out of my memory?
I hope mine arrives by the first week in November - I'm a UK pledge, technically, since I got it sent to my parents house in Ireland. And apparently that counts as UK for Mantic
I'm home for a few days that week and it would be sweet to pick up my pledge then rather than waiting for Christmas!
So Blood Rage is about to land at my door, and then Dungeon Saga right after it.. so many minis so little time to paint.
the new KOW cover looks good, I'll be picking that up. Hope the lizard list is good, I have lots and lots of skinks that need a good home in a new land.
My ds pledge turned up today even tho I just went for the basic pledge I wasnt expecting it quite so soon.
The basic box weighs a ton and the box case is very nice. Goingto have to spend all week going through the bags and checking on stuff, I can already see a few swords that will need the hot water treatment.
The ogre hunters, zombie trolls, and godspeaker look solid to me. They aren't great but I'd rather a basic model with a basic pose done well than something that tries to go further but falls short (looking at you, dragon and not-lammasu).
The zombie trolls look good and the he ogre hunters as well, If I played those armies I would probably buy them. The zombie trolls I can even imagine buying for their own sake. The god speaker and the looks ok but even if I played orcs I would probably look for another miniature.
The dragon rider and lammasu looks like halfbaked conversions where someone has just stuck a rider from a cavalry unit on top of a dragon.
The Lammasu looks... well... I would say bad, but I think that would offend all the bad models out there...
And the riders do look kind of like they were just plonked on top... where is the strapping to hold them in place as a bare minimum? Why are they sat in possibly the two most stupid places to sit?
Zombie trolls and ogre hunters are definitely the winners here. I really do hope mantic can fund an ogre sprue based on those ogre proportions for the basic ogre infantry.
New releases are great, it is nice to be surprised by new releases for once rather than having seen them months ago in Kickstarter deliveries.
My Dungeon Saga pledged arrived today, really great stuff, and I like how they've got a quickstart guide that gets you playing within minutes, punching out only the counters you need for the first two scenarios.
I honestly kinda like the Lammasau.. I don't think it's amazing or anything but I'd plop it down on a table and not feel bad. That dragon though, looks like it broke it's hips in the squat rack.
Everything else is good to exceptional. I quite like the zombie trolls and ogres.
MLaw wrote: I honestly kinda like the Lammasau.. I don't think it's amazing or anything but I'd plop it down on a table and not feel bad. That dragon though, looks like it broke it's hips in the squat rack.
Everything else is good to exceptional. I quite like the zombie trolls and ogres.
Same here. I think the Lammasu looks fine. Not the 'run out and pay huge amounts for it' fine, but if I played a force with that in the list, I'd buy one.
I also LOVE the ogres. I don't play ogres, but might pick some up just because.
Troll Zombies look ok, too.
The dragon is the only thing that disappoints me. When I think 'dragon', I think 'intimidating'. That one doesn't really do the job for me.
Just reading through the adventurers compendium and its annoying that in several places when it refers to a page for a rule it says 'refer to page XXX' such a shame as the production of the books so far is great.
The material that has been used for the models is pretty good, far nicer than the old restic. However it will need a fair bit of hot water action on floppy swords and staffs. Also I'll have to reposition the models on the bases as a few have been stuck on a bit wonky in places.
The cardboard tiles are very nice so too are the doors and scenery. The resin used on the ks exclusive heroes is also very nice, I wish I'd got the ks exclusive salamander for my nature army as well as the tree druid (who is excellent).
MLaw wrote: I honestly kinda like the Lammasau.. I don't think it's amazing or anything but I'd plop it down on a table and not feel bad. That dragon though, looks like it broke it's hips in the squat rack.
Same here. I think the Lammasu looks fine. Not the 'run out and pay huge amounts for it' fine, but if I played a force with that in the list, I'd buy one.
The dragon is the only thing that disappoints me. When I think 'dragon', I think 'intimidating'. That one doesn't really do the job for me.
Which is somewhat ironic, since unless I'm mistaken the Dragon and the Halfbreed share everything but the head?
The quality improvement in Ogres between Braves and Hunters, versus the original ones, is jarring. I love the army, but loath my "skipped leg day" Warriors, which is unfortunate as I have dozens of them.
Its all subjective mind you, as I love the GW Ogre aesthetic, and have slowly been phasing out my Mantic Ogres and replacing them with Ironguts, etc...
I'm rethinking that endeavor with how much more I am liking the new Mantic stuff.
Also, i'm shocked at how much I enjoy the Undead Trolls.
Also, are those Ogre Chariots actually a new release? They look an awful lot like the Chariots I have sitting in a box waiting for me to get around to painting them
MLaw wrote: I honestly kinda like the Lammasau.. I don't think it's amazing or anything but I'd plop it down on a table and not feel bad. That dragon though, looks like it broke it's hips in the squat rack.
Same here. I think the Lammasu looks fine. Not the 'run out and pay huge amounts for it' fine, but if I played a force with that in the list, I'd buy one.
The dragon is the only thing that disappoints me. When I think 'dragon', I think 'intimidating'. That one doesn't really do the job for me.
Which is somewhat ironic, since unless I'm mistaken the Dragon and the Halfbreed share everything but the head?
Somehow I hadn't noticed that.. and now ..arg.. thanks.. I think the darker paint scheme on the Lambreed hides the weird anatomy better than the bright red on that dragon. Even still, between the two, the more squat upper body of the Lam lends itself to that horrid pose slightly better than the longer shape of the dragon IMO.
NTRabbit wrote: I despise the GW Ogre aesthetic, but that's me.
Also, are those Ogre Chariots actually a new release? They look an awful lot like the Chariots I have sitting in a box waiting for me to get around to painting them
They look similar, but that might be a new bit for the arm. Seems to be a different chain attachy bit you can identify on the righthand ogre.
Spoiler:
So maybe a quietly revamped kit like they did with the decimators?
Also, I like the lamassu. Not amazing, but I'll probably pick one up.
RiTides wrote: Zombie trolls are cool! Not a fan of the Lamassu at all though - I'll be using the oop Raging Heroes one.
Not to go off-topic.. but..kinda.. That Lamasau isn't OOP, you just have to buy the head separately. Which.. if you already have a winged bull (or winged anything really) you could pay the $7 and slap it on there. If you go to their site and look in Fantasy>Monsters or search Shedu you should find it.
Back on topic..
Does anyone know if the DS add-on only pledges for the US are shipping yet? Reading over the carton a and b thing and add-ons from the UK and all of that.. I'm confused if pledges like mine, that are just add-ons already went out.
This is something I just pulled from the comments section of the DS campaign page on KS.
Customs
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- During the campaign it was said that if people wanted tracked courier shipping we would have to pay $15 extra during the pledge manager. This option was never available and it was never clear how shipping was going to be made, so people assumed you were not going to ship through a courier. The problem now is that it appears that you have used courier shipping which is good for some people but bad for others. Several people in Canada have reported that they were asked to pay duties to DHL.
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Changes in what was offered during the KS -------------------------------------------------------
- The Collector's Edition hardback was supposed to include both the Andventurer's companion and the Dungeon Journal. It currently only includes the former.
- The Collector's Edition should be included in pledges over $200. Upgrading it so that every backer that bought the three expansions has it is ok (sort of) but not including it in pledges that went over $200 but didn't buy all three expansions is not what was promised.
- According to the update #43, the number of scenarios in the Infernal Crypts expansion was going to be 8. However, in the recieved booklet there are only 6.
- According to updates #26 and #28 the Warlord of Galahir was going to have also two extra scenarios, though it was never mentioned the initial number of scenarios.
- Some heroes don't come with a stat card but their stats come in the dungeon journal. Although it was never stated during the campaign which heroes would come with a card and which not, it would be nice if you list the names of the heroes that don't have a stat card and if their stats are listed on the dungeon journal or elsewhere. There is quite a bit of confusion regarding this issue.
Some explanation about all this changes would be appreciated.
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Common missing items in the packages
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- Some people that ordered the base pledge + all 3 expansions are not getting the extra KS exclusive book box and no hard cover adventurer's companion. Just a thought, but some of the people packing the pledges might be using Carton A + 3 expansions to cover the aforementioned case, not realising that what they are doing is wrong. Maybe some words with the packaging team will avoid this issue in the rest of the shipments.
- Several people have reported that The Tyrant of Halpi expansion does not contain both the set of doors and furniture.
- Some people are reporting missing card decks and having duplicates of another ones. I suppose this is out of your control since this packages already packed, right?
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Typography errors found in the books
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- In the HUGE and LARGE description of creatures you've written "see page XXX".
- In the Sylph description, the image corresponds to a sylph but the description to a salamander.
You might wanna have a word with you eproof readers (the XXX error is a novice mistake).
I have not verified any of this but it sounds like there are issues and some splainin to do.
Zywus wrote: Is it just me or does it look like the dragon and (especially) the halfbreed need to lose some weight?
To me, the belly does not look particularly bulgy or distended once the HUGE 90 DEGREE BEND between the creature's torso and abdomen is taken into account. That poor beast has Liefelded its spine.
He has a vertical human torso attached to horizontal dragon hips. This is not good.
Just got my pledge through and had a quick look. Inital impressions are:
Well packed
Models are fantastic
Profile and item cards are way to thin
Tiles whilst nice are a tad thin for my liking
Tile clips are to big for tiles
Dice bag looks like it's been brought from a 99p store
Acrylic tokens are gak, I knew I shouldn't have got them as all there acrylic tokens have been gak from after the Dreadball KS Did I mention the models ard fantastic!!
I'll have a proper look through to make sure everything is there when I get tge chance, though straight of the bat I'm very disappointed with the thickness of the cardstock items.
MLaw wrote: I honestly kinda like the Lammasau.. I don't think it's amazing or anything but I'd plop it down on a table and not feel bad. That dragon though, looks like it broke it's hips in the squat rack.
Everything else is good to exceptional. I quite like the zombie trolls and ogres.
The Lammasu is ugly in a good way, while the same body is ugly in a bad way when used as a dragon. The Elf Rider isn't great either, while the dwarf looks pretty good, at least in that picture.
The Ogre Hunters are really cool, and I'll likely buy two for my boys.
I think I'm probably very much in the minority as I actually like the dragon, but only in the context of it being for a dungeon. As a dragon for a battlefield and with a rider it looks pretty silly, especially as the rider is perched halfway along it's neck, in a way that would only be feasible if the dragon doesn't move from that exact pose.
As a dungeon dragon for Dungeon Saga, I really like it. I imagine a dragon that sits around in a dungeon guarding it's treasure to be fat, I'm not really a fan of the really spindly dragons that most companies produce. I imagine it would look incredibly menacing if you went into a room in the dungeon and that fat git was sat in the middle, which is pretty much what I'm after. Most dragons that companies make look like they should be flying and dynamic, which wouldn't make much sense in the context of a dungeon. It reminds me a bit of the dragons from the computer game The Last Remnant.
It looks pretty out of place as a Kings of War piece though, it doesn't look like it would be up to much flying. It looks like a bit of a bodge job to make it usable in KOW.
Yeah I think I agree here. Plenty of fancy reaper dragons making it into bones that will cost the same or less at retail and cover the dynamic angle better. But fat dungeon dragon ftwlol.
AlexHolker wrote: If only somebody could have predicted that the dragon would look like gak.
Oh. Wait.
This is the dragon that was shown off like six months ago, right?
And it's a PVC/Bones style boardgame piece for Dungeon Saga that has to fit into a 3 square by 3 square location? And that Mantic said they'd be releasing as a KoW unit?
Just want to make sure that this Kings of War release is not somehow magically new and we didn't already know about it for half a year, and now it's time to act surprised.
AlexHolker wrote: If only somebody could have predicted that the dragon would look like gak.
Oh. Wait.
This is the dragon that was shown off like six months ago, right?
And it's a PVC/Bones style boardgame piece for Dungeon Saga that has to fit into a 3 square by 3 square location? And that Mantic said they'd be releasing as a KoW unit?
Just want to make sure that this Kings of War release is not somehow magically new and we didn't already know about it for half a year, and now it's time to act surprised.
It's the same dragon everyone has known about for a long time.
Yup. And quite a few of us like it. Unlike Holker, who hates everything Mantic puts out. No matter what they choose to do, it's always wrong. Best to ignore it.
timetowaste85 wrote: Yup. And quite a few of us like it. Unlike Holker, who hates everything Mantic puts out. No matter what they choose to do, it's always wrong. Best to ignore it.
If I was still playing WHFB I'd be all over those Zombie Trolls as Nurgle-based Chaos Trolls. As it is, they still may very well find a place inside an Abyssal force.
AlexHolker wrote: If only somebody could have predicted that the dragon would look like gak.
Oh. Wait.
This is the dragon that was shown off like six months ago, right?
And it's a PVC/Bones style boardgame piece for Dungeon Saga that has to fit into a 3 square by 3 square location? And that Mantic said they'd be releasing as a KoW unit?
Just want to make sure that this Kings of War release is not somehow magically new and we didn't already know about it for half a year, and now it's time to act surprised.
It's the same dragon everyone has known about for a long time.
No surprises here.
I remember the huge discussion we had about anatomy when the first rendered images came out. AlexHolker was there. He predicted that the dragon would look bad if they didn't fix it before it went to production, and thus it came to pass.
Frankly, I don't think those excuses give Mantic a pass at all. They've had so, so many chances to get it right and they keep whiffing. For every Enforcer Peacekeeper sprue full of magic, they release a doggie no-no scoop full of Greater Obsidian Golem. According to their only (ex) in-house sculptor, Mantic doesn't care how the miniatures turn out. Well, it shows.
It's funny because I didn't back the core game because Mantic was refusing to answer my questions about the tile thickness. They even made a joke about that in one of the updates right after I asked it. I also received a message where someone from Mantic was basically mocking the fact that anyone would care about tile thickness. Look at that.. people are saying the tiles are too thin. WHAT!?!?!?
Alpharius wrote: Links to/screen shots of said jokes and PMs please!
I'll see if I can dig it up later. My wife flew down to be with her dad and it's just me with the boys so I'm a bit shorter on time than normal. Looking through my messages, I don't see the directly snarky comment so it may have been in the comments section which will take a lot longer to dig up. I can produce a screenshot of someone from Mantic assuring me that the tiles should be the same thickness as the Descent tiles though (gimme a bit if you want to see it, I have to make dinner). Looking at my messages, the update in question is probably from August 20 something.. I'll get the specifics of that later as well.
This is a copy/paste of part of the message. This is NOT from the person who made the remarks but one of their friendly follow ups after you drop a pledge.
Thanks for getting in touch - and I've very sorry to hear that you feel that way. Certainly we don't try to upset our backers so I'm sorry you feel a response was snarky, it was definitely not intended that way.
The card tiles will be the same thickness as the tiles in descent - they are made of the same material. The counters are made of the same material, and we'd like do the same with the character mats too.
The tiles in the Beasts of War video were bits of paper that we used in our prototype version.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: For every Enforcer Peacekeeper sprue full of magic, they release a doggie no-no scoop full of Greater Obsidian Golem. According to their only (ex) in-house sculptor, Mantic doesn't care how the miniatures turn out. Well, it shows.
But the Greater Obsidian Goolem is really cool looking I'll probably be getting one of his Greater Earth Elemental cousins at some point
All my dungeon saga stuff arrived today and on first inspection everything seems present and correct. The dragon instantly stands out as it's a gigantic piece of plastic, it's going to look spectacular in the game. Not hand a chance to closely inspect things as I had to get back to work, but I'm very impressed so far. I was almost positive they'd get my order wrong as I added a couple of things late on, but it seems to be spot on. I'll have to go through it all to make sure, but there is nothing obviously missing.
A lot of hot water treatment is going to be required though, predictably. The colour coding of the models is going to be very useful in sorting everything out.
AlexHolker wrote: If only somebody could have predicted that the dragon would look like gak.
Oh. Wait.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day
But not this time.
I quite like the fat dragon, and am going to use it as exactly that - a dragon grown fat and lazy.... (Like the Shire Dragon by long defunct Grenadier, there is always a place for fat and lazy dragons.)
Available from Mirliton.
*EDIT* Added image from http://tolkiengateway.net. *EDIT 2* And the Shire Dragon can still be purchased, through Mirliton.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I remember the huge discussion we had about anatomy when the first rendered images came out. AlexHolker was there. He predicted that the dragon would look bad if they didn't fix it before it went to production, and thus it came to pass.
Frankly, I don't think those excuses give Mantic a pass at all. They've had so, so many chances to get it right and they keep whiffing. For every Enforcer Peacekeeper sprue full of magic, they release a doggie no-no scoop full of Greater Obsidian Golem. According to their only (ex) in-house sculptor, Mantic doesn't care how the miniatures turn out. Well, it shows.
And yet....their quality has increased noticeably with every release. There's a page of 8 new sculpts, and there's one model that most don't like, and one that's split.
Mantic needs to step up their monster game for sure, but overall, mantic's miniature quality is increasing by leaps and bounds.
Personally I think while their technical quality is increasing, their art direction is still as ugly as ever, resulting in sub-par sculpts from great sculptors. The Enforcers and Undead are very cool, and some of the Forge Father troops nail it, but that's about it imo.
Any declaration of increased quality over time forgets that the very first sprues that Mantic put out were the KOW Infantry ones from Renendra.
They just didn't stick with Renedra because of the costs involved and the stacked nature of the Renendra schedule meaning that they would be forced into sporadic and delayed releases.
I think the only fault of Mantic's dragon is that they chose to release a boardgame model that was designed to fit into a 75mmx75mm area as a wargaming model.
As it stands, it's a badass boardgame/Bones style model. And a mediocre wargaming one.
I'm far more interested in the Naiads. The Abyssals were interesting back during the KoWKS but my overall malaise with Mantic KS means that I didn't back, but I'm not sure the realized models have won me over that much. The pictures of the Naiads though make them seem like they might be among Mantic's better kits.
Krinsath wrote: I'm far more interested in the Naiads. The Abyssals were interesting back during the KoWKS but my overall malaise with Mantic KS means that I didn't back, but I'm not sure the realized models have won me over that much. The pictures of the Naiads though make them seem like they might be among Mantic's better kits.
Those are still on track for the coming year?
Much like Warpath looks to me like the Coolest Sci-Fi Saturday Morning Cartoon Ever (and so therefore I pledged a ton), the Naiads look like they'd fit in with the Coolest Fantasy Saturday Morning Cartoon Ever aesthetic that Mantic appears to be going for with it's recent releases.
The problem is not so much the dragon itself, which works well for what it was intended, a boardgame. The problem is that they released it as a centre piece model for a wargame army. A problem which is made worse by lazily sticking riders (which are not bad by themselves either) on top of them.
And as Mymearan pointed out. Mantic desperatly needs some art direction, because it is obvious that they do not have anyone with designskills in that position.
Can't wait to get my stuff.. between this and my Blood Rage goodies I'm gonna OD on plasticrack
Also trying to figure out how to set up my blood rage vikings as an Armies of Men army for KOW.. troops are easy enough, but not sure how to handle the giants/ogre sized minis. Was looking over the list last night and there's an option for a warbeast or something that looks to be on a chariot sized base, so maybe I can do the blood rage giants in pairs of 2 on 1 base as a kind of proxy? or would that look silly?
judgedoug wrote: I think the only fault of Mantic's dragon is that they chose to release a boardgame model that was designed to fit into a 75mmx75mm area as a wargaming model.
As it stands, it's a badass boardgame/Bones style model. And a mediocre wargaming one.
I think Bones is the biggest issue with this dragon. There's at least a half dozen Bones dragons that fit in the 75x75 square, are much cheaper than whatever the Mantic dragon will release for, and are much better looking. Calling it a badass Bones style model is miles off the mark.
judgedoug wrote: I think the only fault of Mantic's dragon is that they chose to release a boardgame model that was designed to fit into a 75mmx75mm area as a wargaming model.
As it stands, it's a badass boardgame/Bones style model. And a mediocre wargaming one.
I think Bones is the biggest issue with this dragon. There's at least a half dozen Bones dragons that fit in the 75x75 square, are much cheaper than whatever the Mantic dragon will release for, and are much better looking. Calling it a badass Bones style model is miles off the mark.
Honestly, I can't judge right now. I have several Bones dragons and the details are all soft. I don't have this guy in hand so I can make a comparison. The thing that the Mantic dragon has really going against it is that it had to be sculpted to fit a boardgame tile. If he was stretched out lengthwise or heightwise he'd be a lot more impressive.
I have a bunch of the dragons from Bones II, and not a one of them fits inside the 75mmx75mm base size bar the small Silver Dragon, and the very silly Verocithrax. All of the others have either a wing or a tail curling well outside the footprint.
Well, does a wing outside the base dimensions really matter? I used to have one of the bones steampunk Dragons which Name I forgot. I put it on a 50x100 base, but it would've easily fit on a 50x75
RoninXiC wrote: Well, does a wing outside the base dimensions really matter? I used to have one of the bones steampunk Dragons which Name I forgot. I put it on a 50x100 base, but it would've easily fit on a 50x75
It does when it's at ground level and liable to sweep away other mins, as with Narthrax. Cinder, Blightfang and Nathavarr all have tails sweeping out, while Nathavarr also has a substantial base.
If memory serves, and it had better since I don't want to go out and rummage through the massive box Cinder and Nathavarr are also deceptively large compared to the original KS photos, they both outsize Blightfang and Narthrax by a fair bit.
Silver Dragon would probably fit, but imo it seems more like a teenage dragon to me, not quite full grown yet, kinda lanky and its spikes haven't grown in.
Worth saying I didn't back and don't own any Bones 1, so I can't comment on all those dragons, sot no I don't have too many dragons.
Which is to say that I'm gonna get a few more from Bones 3.
By which I mean I'm getting Tiamat and she's getting on the table somehow
There are very few large dragons I've seen that fit well within a zone like that. The D&D boardgame, Wrath of Ashardalon's dragon comes to mind. He doesn't seem that big but if you compare his size to a humanoid, he's pretty big.
judgedoug wrote: I think the only fault of Mantic's dragon is that they chose to release a boardgame model that was designed to fit into a 75mmx75mm area as a wargaming model.
As it stands, it's a badass boardgame/Bones style model. And a mediocre wargaming one.
Well, I have 1st edition Descent, and the Mantic dragon looks to beat the hell out of the Descent dragons on just about every metric, but on the other hand, I can run, ski and shoot better than a stroke victim but you don't see anyone lining up to give me a gold medal, either.
I have many of the Bones Dragons, and they all have better anatomy, better poses, and all around better design than the Mantic dragon, for a cheaper price. I did skip that silly Verocithrax one, though. i don't buy the base-size pose limitations excuse since the old descent dragons had limbs and wings jutting out all over the place. It comes across like an artist sent in a rough draft and Mantic didn't bother asking for any changes, even when they were planning to use the base mini to create centerpiece minis for several of their armies.
Mantic makes a lot of good minis, yes, but the dragon isn't one of them for me.
judgedoug wrote: I think the only fault of Mantic's dragon is that they chose to release a boardgame model that was designed to fit into a 75mmx75mm area as a wargaming model.
As it stands, it's a badass boardgame/Bones style model. And a mediocre wargaming one.
Well, I have 1st edition Descent, and the Mantic dragon looks to beat the hell out of the Descent dragons on just about every metric, but on the other hand, I can run, ski and shoot better than a stroke victim but you don't see anyone lining up to give me a gold medal, either.
I have many of the Bones Dragons, and they all have better anatomy, better poses, and all around better design than the Mantic dragon, for a cheaper price. I did skip that silly Verocithrax one, though. i don't buy the base-size pose limitations excuse since the old descent dragons had limbs and wings jutting out all over the place. It comes across like an artist sent in a rough draft and Mantic didn't bother asking for any changes, even when they were planning to use the base mini to create centerpiece minis for several of their armies.
Mantic makes a lot of good minis, yes, but the dragon isn't one of them for me.
Yeah, even GW struggled with base sizes, but if you look at the old school Asarnil:
You'll see a model that, despite being 20 years older, is arguably better than the Mantic Dragon.
this current naming 
of Blood Blooders and Rage Ragers
.
I'll probably be getting one of his Greater Earth Elemental cousins at some point
