judgedoug wrote: As an aside, I am familiar with both the metal and plastic Confrontation stuff (as I own both) and I absolutely love the plastic Confrontation models. Most of them were sculpted by their metal sculptors, and some of the plastics are superior to their metal sculpt counterparts - for instance, oh, the entire range of plastic Ram models are an order of magnitude better than the metals. I also prefer the Lion models, and most of the Scorpion monsters over the metal versions.
Azazel, if you get a chance, get the Lion army box. The Chimera in that box is one of the finest models Rackham had ever produced and puts their orginal metal one to shame.
The cat looks a bit off... rather horselike legs, I'd expected it to be a wee bit longer, and not as tall, perhaps? still, perfectly fine mount, maybe just not what I expected Is that middle model in the third pic a regular paladin? Love the model! Looks a bit of a mono-pose thing, though...
Ogres look great. I'm a bit weary of the cat rider, but it's hard to say anything for certain from those pics. The rider doesn't look very "in" the saddle.
The MoA is looking very heroic scaled compared to the paladin/sister? His head and feet both look HUGE to me.
I agree about those ogres being on the better end of the spectrum. Overall, I am not impressed with the consistency/quality here... I will definitely consider Mantic for modelling projects, but I'm going to want to see the sculpts before committing to things.
The exception being the Nameless/tentacle team for Dreadball... because apparently I have a thing for cthulhu stand-ins
Ogres will be getting an army box (and their own army list), so anyone wanting to get those outside of the kickstarter will still have access to a pretty sweet deal.
I agree that they turned out pretty well.. they have big arms and smaller legs, but it's not ridiculous like it is with the werewolves and trolls.
scarletsquig wrote: Ogres will be getting an army box (and their own army list), so anyone wanting to get those outside of the kickstarter will still have access to a pretty sweet deal.
I agree that they turned out pretty well.. they have big arms and smaller legs, but it's not ridiculous like it is with the werewolves and ogres.
I'm guessing you meant "werewolves and trolls" in that last line
Alpharius wrote: Not if you're at all familiar with the original metals.
I have a hard time looking at the plastics...
I've got a whole bunch of each. I picked up a bunch of metal confrontation before it got really big, but never quite got around to painting them. Much mroe recently, I picked up a bunch of plastic Confrontation on sale from Mini Market, to theoretically try out that version of the game, but also largely as proxies for LotR, 40k (Dark Eldar) and because I always liked the Wolfen. The plastic wolfen are still decent. Stuff like the metal Dirz are (mostly) massively superior, and we won't even go into the metal Goblins (did they even make the goblins in plastic? I've never seen them).
There are actually some pretty nice sculpts in the prepaints if taken as their own thing.
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judgedoug wrote: As an aside, I am familiar with both the metal and plastic Confrontation stuff (as I own both) and I absolutely love the plastic Confrontation models. Most of them were sculpted by their metal sculptors, and some of the plastics are superior to their metal sculpt counterparts - for instance, oh, the entire range of plastic Ram models are an order of magnitude better than the metals. I also prefer the Lion models, and most of the Scorpion monsters over the metal versions.
Azazel, if you get a chance, get the Lion army box. The Chimera in that box is one of the finest models Rackham had ever produced and puts their orginal metal one to shame.
Thanks Doug. I didn't see that Mega Deal, the last time I did a large order from MM, I don't think they had it. I did pick up a bunch of the figures that are in it in their own heavily-discounted sets. I've also got the Lions Army box - and I agree that it's a lovely model. (Never saw the metal one!)
Albino Squirrel wrote: The werewolves appear to have some kind of ball/socket joins on the arms and heads, so I'm sure it will be possible to give them better poses. Though the legs appear to not be pose-able at all.
I'm much more disappointed in those trolls. They look terrible. They really took that tiny legs/gigantic torso and arms thing to a ridiculous extreme. They don't look like they'd be able to stand up without those tiny legs collapsing. Doesn't look like the concept art at all. I really hope I can change my buy one/get one trolls out for something else.
Ouch. Yeah, those proportions are awful. I was hoping to proxy them for LotR trolls, but the ones from Weta kind of look like they could, you know, actually exist and walk. Shame they did the same BS with the ogres. I might drop both ogres and trolls down to the minimum freebies and just redirect my BOGOFs instead of adding in extra money at this rate.
I went all-in on werewolves, so that's where the heartbreak lies for me. I guess I'll swap them out for angels or Basilean something or others.
I'm still trying to formulate in my mind the scene where someone at Mantic took a look at those werewolf greens, stared blankly at the nipples before panning his or her eyes over the misshapen arms and Verbal Kint legs, scanned back to the nipples again, unfocused his or her eyes, and just said, "looks good." Someone in the Mantic studio must have realized that there was actual money at stake and still said 'feth it', right?
And what was the sculptor thinking? "There aren't enough lactating werewolves on the market. They'll thank me for this."
I'm glad Mantic is giving me a chance to change my pledged items.
It should be easy enough to file or cut them down. I don't see them as a big problem. My main concern is the Trolls legs, but I will deal with that problem when I get there I guess.
Alpharius wrote: I think it looks fine for the Ogres and Trolls.
Funny isn't it?
I'm hoping to drop the Werewolves, Golems and Gargoyles so I can double up on Ogres and Trolls!
In a sense, my opinion of a "proper" ogre goes back to the classic Jes Goodwin sculpts.
I've got a lot more variation with trolls, and most of the various GW ones (excepting the Chaos ones) have worked for me, as do the WETA LotR ones, and of course the Tunnels & Trolls 2nd Edition cover by Liz Danforth which fired my imagination as a young'un.
I don't require or need a slavish following to any of those particular interpretations, of course, but I prefer the versions that look like their legs can support their own weight.
I'll make my final selections once they send out the PM. Hopefully they will have sculpts for us to see of all the figures, so we can make properly informed choices.
I think I'll be switching a lot of my BOGOs into ogres - enough to make an army. Going to wait a bit if the pledge manager is going to open again, so I get to see more poses (don't think we've seen great weapon ogres yet).
We haven't seen the new abyssal dwarfs yet either, have we?
I'm fairly sure the model won't be one of the freebie characters since it isn't one of the five characters produced as part of the high-level pledges (so far we've seen the basilean lion rider and priest, but haven't seen any of the other hero freebies).
It's an extra sculpt released for the Kings and Legends supplement.
^ I'd imagine he'll get a backstory in the K&L book and probably the same rules as the core book.
Kings and Legends is mostly a source/background book, as well as having some rules for characters and the ogre army.
Anyway, a quick update on everyone's KS pledges - if you qualify for free Basiliean Cat Cavalry (or have bought it as a BOGOF), you'll now get 5 models instead of 3, since they're normal-sized cavalry in the new rules.
I'm fairly sure the model won't be one of the freebie characters since it isn't one of the five characters produced as part of the high-level pledges (so far we've seen the basilean lion rider and priest, but haven't seen any of the other hero freebies).
It's an extra sculpt released for the Kings and Legends supplement.
We have also seen a render for the female elohi/angel witch/wizard-ess
Squig, do you know if the Immortal Guard are being made in restic, or as a plastic sprue? Hoping for the latter, but I have no idea if that's a possibility or not.
Also, the Cat Cavalry - Interesting to know. Was hoping for something I could substitute as Demigryphs, but that's fine. Might need to do a bit of repositioning on the legs to make them look less horse like, but it is interesting to see them anyway.
Nah, there is very little available photo wise at the moment for some of the other units, which is annoying.
I really wish they went with the lizard style concept they had earlier for the brock riders, looked sweet. Instead, it looks like angry attack badgers are the go.
... that tells me almost nothing. Unless of course you have a picture of the real life badger large enough to hold the real life dwarf that the mantic sculptor used as a model that is... If all minis of the same name were identical, we really wouldn't need dozens of companies making elves, dwarves, and humans, would we? One would suffice and we wouldn't need any previews.
... that tells me almost nothing. Unless of course you have a picture of the real life badger large enough to hold the real life dwarf that the mantic sculptor used as a model that is... If all minis of the same name were identical, we really wouldn't need dozens of companies making elves, dwarves, and humans, would we? One would suffice and we wouldn't need any previews.
It was in reference to the " really wish they went with the lizard style concept they had earlier " from Fenriswulf.
... that tells me almost nothing. Unless of course you have a picture of the real life badger large enough to hold the real life dwarf that the mantic sculptor used as a model that is... If all minis of the same name were identical, we really wouldn't need dozens of companies making elves, dwarves, and humans, would we? One would suffice and we wouldn't need any previews.
It was in reference to the " really wish they went with the lizard style concept they had earlier " from Fenriswulf.
Ah, sorry, missed that middle post. I figured it was in response to my question about preview pics.
edit: As a side note, the actual badger was my least favorite of the three they showed (triceratops being the best IMO).
Cool, thanks dude. Was hoping we could get some more information out of Mantic. Any idea when we'll get some of the new pics in before the second pledge survey is sent out? Would really like to see exactly what is on the block, and hopefully soon.
I painted that. It's a lovely, lovely mini. The cracks and so forth are all sculpted on, and are very fine indeed; the model would stand to a £200 competition paintjob with no additional work whatsoever. That was just a quick character level job.
Cyporiean wrote: I still feel that Dino mount would be better suited for Abyssal Dwarfs or Twilight Kin.
That is a good point but I feel like they also would have made for an interesting distinction between normal dwarven cavalry that rides mammals versus bezerkers that wrangle up and control reptiles. Maybe it will make a showing as an abyssal cavalry unit as I do recall seeing bezerkers a while back for that army as well (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). We've also had dozens of dwarves riding mammals over the past 20 years of tabletopgaming that I've participated in; to my knowledge, we've never had dwarven dino riders.
Cyporiean wrote: I still feel that Dino mount would be better suited for Abyssal Dwarfs or Twilight Kin.
I disagree, but on the basis that I think Mantic should exploit cave-dwelling lizards as a way to add more fantasy (and more speed given the nature of the KoW ruleset) to the Dwarf army list.
Having seen it close up, I now really wish they had of gone with a Triceratops than this. The fur is very poorly sculpted, and is only rescued by a decent job on the dwarf.
Glad I am only getting some for free, rather than wanting these for an army.
Good to see from Mantic's comments that the rest of the sculpts will be shown in the next week, and we can re-choose if we like. Looks like I will have an absolute bucketload of Celestian Men at Arms.
Got an email back from Mantic about a few questions I asked;
In the BOGOF sculpts, you'll get a repeat of the original product, not any other different styles.
Abyssal Dwarf Immortals are new sculpts, but done in restic, not sprue plastic.
Ogres are supplied with options for hand weapon, shield and a two handed weapon (if you didn't know this already).
No chance of swapping out some of the freebies you get based on your pledge level (ie if you want to swap some of your Brock riders for more Ogres etc), as they are all going to be bulk packed for the orders to make things easier.
Looks good. Hope that's 40mm bases they are on. Also looks like the legs will be easy enough to modify as well so if I don't like how small they are I can change them.
Thing is I thought they were more terrestrial brachiators, using their arms more to move along, but the way they are positioned and standing, it looks like their legs are used quite a bit.
Still, very pleased with how they turned out and look painted.
I believe mantic mainly uses 50mm bases for monsters/war machines now (the war trombones would easily fit 40 but are supplied with 50, for example) though the rulebook mentions both. they could be 40 or 50, no way to know for now AFAIK.
Not so muted in the flesh, the white background washes them out a little. I particularly like the one on the left, who's obviously Very Angry with his rock.
I think they're great. They'll go into my Troll army for WoC VERY well. They just need [more] tentacles. Any word on when we're getting the second survey to adjust our options?
I painted those. They're on 40mm bases. I still have the werewolves. :-) They're pretty fricken' cool.
And a lovely job you did. No chance of a step-by-step or something like that, by any chance? Really quite lovely, the darker scheme kind of compensates for the somewhat cartoony look rather magnificently.
GOD! Why in the @&#^# do they have to make everything have tinsy tiny little legs?!?!?!?
Sorry, lost it there. Seriously, I want to like the models but the trolls and werewolves have tiny munchkin legs under he-man bodies. I still like the ogres (unless they made tiny legs for them too since the last time I saw them) and will just have to take the freebie trolls and werewolves I guess.
winterdyne wrote: They do have comedy little legs and very large bodies. I quite like that though... Reminded me of one of the baddies from the original Halo...
I'll do a paint guide once they're officially let out of the bag, I have an agreement with Mantic not to publish any pics until they give the nod.
You're doing a fantastic job - can you let us know what you've painted for them that we can look forward to in the coming weeks/months?
Getting flattering paint jobs is something that Mantic has seemed to struggle with in the past, so it's nice to see some.
I have to admit that the paint job makes them really shine, and I am definitely thinking of ways to incorporate that into the ones I get. Very good work!
agnosto wrote: GOD! Why in the @&#^# do they have to make everything have tinsy tiny little legs?!?!?!?
Because Mantic has no eye for proportions that don't look like gak, and never has.
Compared to who? Thunderbolt Mountain Miniatures? If you're talking proportions, GW's models look like gak, PP's models look like gak. Giant ham fists and balloon heads. Especially GW orcs, who look like slowed hydrocephalic babies. Thank god Mantic came along, now I have a giant army of actual evil looking orcs with proper proportions.
winterdyne wrote: They do have comedy little legs and very large bodies. I quite like that though... Reminded me of one of the baddies from the original Halo...
I'll do a paint guide once they're officially let out of the bag, I have an agreement with Mantic not to publish any pics until they give the nod.
Awesome, thanks! And really, it's not as if we'd have any use for that specific guide before they're out anyway, right? Again, lovely stuff.
I'll probably grab a bunch of Reaper Bones trolls to convert instead, they're a better fit for the Mantic Orcs I already own. In fact, those are so cheap I might be able to use them as a source of replacement legs for the Mantic ones.. and heads too, since I'm not so keen on the "yelling mouth" on all of the head variants. I do like the bulk of the mantic trolls, just feel like they need tree trunks for legs rather than twigs!
The problem for me isn't always down to "heroic scale vs. truescale", but more about whether the mini looks like it belongs in the army.
I wouldn't put the mantic trolls in with my mantic orcs in the same way that I wouldn't mix GW elves with Mantic elves.
It's the age-old problem with Mantic, they have lots of different freelancers sculpting for them all going off and doing their own thing (the troll/werewolf sculptor sculpted a lot of the trollblood models for privateer press, so you can see why the sculpts turned out the way they did) and it results in wildly different design styles within a single army. I don't feel like the concept art here was stuck to very well, if you look at the original design, they're heavily heroic scale, but they do at least have some legs to them:
^ Now *that* would have been a badass mini.
Remy did a better job of sticking to the concept with the Ogres, whereas the trolls and werewolves done by the other sculptor seem to have deviated a lot.
It's always the more cartoony sculpts that are the most divisive, pretty much a 50/50 love/hate split.
Yeah, the troll/ogre debate got pretty heated during the KS, if I recall correctly. The current compromise in terms of armour is actually quite nice; armoured trolls have been few and far between but it doesn't make them look like ogres in any way.
Remy did a better job of sticking to the concept with the Ogres, whereas the trolls and werewolves done by the other sculptor seem to have deviated a lot.
It's always the more cartoony sculpts that are the most divisive, pretty much a 50/50 love/hate split.
The issue is the final model is way off the concept art. The proportions are totally not even close. If they are employing sculptors and selling people on concept art, the sculptors need to stick to the concept art, which some of the freelancers are either incapable or unwilling to to. The Head to Bicep to Let ratio of the concept art and the final mini are drastically wrong compared to the concept art.
The other thing is the concept changed... The weapons don't match, the style of armor doesn't match... It is like whoever sculpted these has no idea what 'concept art' means. When I see concept art, I usually expect (and companies deliver) a 3D rendition of the 2D art. I expect to see poses, the buckles on the armor, the rivets, the brestplate, the fur around the knee. There are so many overall changes from the concept art, it is like they drew a picture of a Armored black orc and provided a Savage Goblin model. Not only did they not get the core anatomy of the concept art but they also drastically changed the theme of the model too.
This scares the piss out of me when it comes to buying models based upon concept art alone because it is not getting better.
I agree. Very disappointed in the trolls; much preferred the concept art. The final models look very little like the concept art. I'm only getting them as freebies, though, so no prob.
I hope whoever sculpted the trolls get a pay reduction or at the very least a STERN talking to
Sorry if that came out harsh but mantic NEEDS to learn they cant just pump out sculpts like GW. At least with GW they can sell stuff even if its bad looking. This just keeps giving mantic a bad name, much like their elves (even if you like them, a good chunk of the community cannot get past the elves when it comes to mantic)
I agree with ScarletSquig.. don't think the trolls go very well with the Orcs (and certainly don't look as good as the Ogres), although I don't think they are bad models per se. Certainly, better than the GW and PP miniatures (and the price differential makes it an absolute no-brainer).
That wasn't the concept that went to the sculptor for the troll. That was the initial concept, then later concepts talked about unarmoured trolls. That appears to be one model where Mantic really wasn't sure where they were going with the model.
So the final models are definitely derived from this concept art, though they still went way out of whack from that concept art. I honestly think they took that concept art, added some influence from LOTR trolls, then exaggerated the proportions.
edit: and in my opinion, the sculpts are better than either of the concept art pieces. The armoured ones look too much like ogres, and the unarmoured ones are a little boring.
This is the final concept art that the sculptor followed when making the models. :p
I'm glad some people like them, the cartoony-style sculpts seem to be quite divisive with a 50/50 love/hate split.
I'll definitely go ahead with a leg swap with reaper bones trolls and post some pics of how it turns out, hopefully it won't require much work (if I remember correctly the legs are separate on the Mantic trolls), and it'll be a really cheap conversion.
Edit: Quick photoshop I made to try and figure out if it's viable.. scaled down the image to match up the sizes correctly, it helps to know that the mantic trolls are on 40mm bases. Looks doable!
It's the age-old problem with Mantic, they have lots of different freelancers sculpting for them all going off and doing their own thing (the troll/werewolf sculptor sculpted a lot of the trollblood models for privateer press, so you can see why the sculpts turned out the way they did) and it results in wildly different design styles within a single army. I don't feel like the concept art here was stuck to very well, if you look at the original design, they're heavily heroic scale, but they do at least have some legs to them:
Remy did a better job of sticking to the concept with the Ogres, whereas the trolls and werewolves done by the other sculptor seem to have deviated a lot.
It's always the more cartoony sculpts that are the most divisive, pretty much a 50/50 love/hate split.
Honestly, the problem is with the "commissioning editor" - or whatever the equivalent is at Mantic - and ultimately Ronnie being too willing to accept crap from freelancers that doesn't look like the concept art and instead looks too far down the path of ridiculous.
Pacific wrote: I agree with ScarletSquig.. don't think the trolls go very well with the Orcs (and certainly don't look as good as the Ogres), although I don't think they are bad models per se. Certainly, better than the GW and PP miniatures (and the price differential makes it an absolute no-brainer).
Not in my opinion. Cheap gak is still gak. When they're so bad that you don't really want to use it as is - or need to buy additional models to "fix" them, are they really still "cheap"?
And really. Better than the GW ones? No. No they aren't. Sadly. I'm down for 18 extra trolls based on the concept art. Not this gak that they've turned out. Similarly, I'm down for 18 extra cathorses. Looks like I'm going to have to swap out for an awful lot of the plastic humans.
The issue is the final model is way off the concept art. The proportions are totally not even close. If they are employing sculptors and selling people on concept art, the sculptors need to stick to the concept art, which some of the freelancers are either incapable or unwilling to to. The Head to Bicep to Let ratio of the concept art and the final mini are drastically wrong compared to the concept art.
The other thing is the concept changed... The weapons don't match, the style of armor doesn't match... It is like whoever sculpted these has no idea what 'concept art' means. When I see concept art, I usually expect (and companies deliver) a 3D rendition of the 2D art. I expect to see poses, the buckles on the armor, the rivets, the brestplate, the fur around the knee. There are so many overall changes from the concept art, it is like they drew a picture of a Armored black orc and provided a Savage Goblin model. Not only did they not get the core anatomy of the concept art but they also drastically changed the theme of the model too.
This scares the piss out of me when it comes to buying models based upon concept art alone because it is not getting better.
Well said. This is also making me very dubious/cautious with regard to pledging for DeadZone.
looking at the trolls, i...don't care much for them, but i see a few quick alterations i'll do that should take care of it.
greenstuff some extra armor around the arm/shoulder to take care of the action figure joint look, and maybe some boots or somesuch that will bulk up the leg, i don't mind them being short, they just seem to...thin....to me
no clue what i'll do to the catvary
Just got the pledge manager email. The email mainly talks about adding on models.
I sent this in reply. I thought it important to give non-abusive feedback with regard to the concept art and showing us what the final items are:
Hi Stewart,
I'm unfortunately unhappy with many of the final models and the large amount of deviation between what was shown in concept art and the final product (trolls). Other sculpts are simply sub-par (cathorse). With this in mind, I wish to radically change the items in my pledge, so I would like the full list associated with my pledge.
Will the other models that have not yet been shown be displayed properly (ie: hi-res pics) before we have to lock this in? There are quite a few not yet previewed or shown and I'd hate to have to throw away a pile of my money/pledge. Do you have a URL/URLS showing the completed models?
It's the age-old problem with Mantic, they have lots of different freelancers sculpting for them all going off and doing their own thing (the troll/werewolf sculptor sculpted a lot of the trollblood models for privateer press, so you can see why the sculpts turned out the way they did) and it results in wildly different design styles within a single army. I don't feel like the concept art here was stuck to very well, if you look at the original design, they're heavily heroic scale, but they do at least have some legs to them:
Pacific wrote: I agree with ScarletSquig.. don't think the trolls go very well with the Orcs (and certainly don't look as good as the Ogres), although I don't think they are bad models per se. Certainly, better than the GW and PP miniatures (and the price differential makes it an absolute no-brainer).
Not in my opinion. Cheap gak is still gak. When they're so bad that you don't really want to use it as is - or need to buy additional models to "fix" them, are they really still "cheap"?
Well said. This is also making me very dubious/cautious with regard to pledging for DeadZone.
Well I guess ultimately it will always be a subjective judgement (within reason - I do agree the cat riders aren't particular evocative). I think those trolls are less ridiculous than the PP ones (ok.. that's probably the wrong term, how about 'extreme'), and actually look pretty similar to the LoTR trolls - in that sense, yes the price definitely does come into it, especially as here in the UK I can buy 3 of them for 1 GW troll. And I'm guessing in Aus you could probably get about 16, and still have enough cash left over to crack open some tinnies?
I think part of the issue here is that Mantic have set themselves a pretty tight schedule. They are producing miniatures at a very fast rate (especially considering how small the company is!) and by extension of that perhaps some of our expectations are too high. This isn't Corvus Belli, McVey miniatures or Hawk miniatures, where the miniature pieces are bordering on serious works of art - and you can almost feel the passion and thought that has gone into the creation of the miniature. Instead, Mantic are producing miniatures which I think most casual fans will view as good enough in most cases, exceptional in some, with the odd Pumbagore - and they are producing them at an incredibly cheap price. Nice if you have the money to chose to have an all GW orc army or whatever, but not all fans of wargaming do. At least Mantic has created an option of a cheap mass-battle system that didn't exist even 2 to 3 years ago.
...And TBH some of us would vastly prefer mantic orcs over GW orcs, too. Now if you're going to argue mantic's dwarfs really do look the budget-part well, I can only agree. The orcs however are really quite good. Bit out of left-field style-wise, perhaps.
I just added $185 of Basileans to my pledge, all 8 different unit types + the lion hero and the book.
Here's a list of the new options for people to look over before clicking on the dreaded "one click ONLY" survey button:
Kings of War Kickstarter - Shipment 2
Army Deals
The Kickstarter has not only unlocked a horde of new heroes and units, it's unleashed some entire armies! Here are some one-click deals to get you everything you need, with some FREE bonuses thrown in!
Basilean Army Deal- $150 This set contains 6 Elohi, 40 Men-at-Arms, 20 Paladins, 10 Paladin Knights, 20 Sisterhood Infantry, 10 Sisterhood Lancers, and a FREE Sisterhood Panther Chariot! Please enter the quantity of this deal that you would like.
Ogre Army Deal - $125 This set contains 18 Ogres with Melee Weapons (your choice of Hand Weapons & Shields or Two-Handed Weapons), 12 Ogres with Missile Weapons (your choice of Crossbows or Blunderbusses), as well as a FREE Ogre Hero, and 2 FREE Ogre Command Sets! Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Buy-One-Get-One-Free (BOGOF) Deals
Buy one set and we'll double it up for FREE! The same fantastic deal that we ran during the Kickstarter is back, so if you missed anything then, now's your chance! Note that this offer is not mix-and-match - for example, if you add a BOGOF Werewolves, we'll give you another set free, turning your troop into a regiment!
Basilean Elohi (Angels) - $25 Contains 6 Angels (doubled up from 3). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Basilean Men-at-Arms - $25 Contains 40 hard plastic Men-at-Arms (doubled up from 20). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Basilean Paladins - $25 Contains 20 Paladins (doubled up from 10). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Basilean Paladin Knights (Cavalry) - $25 Contains 10 Paladin Knights (doubled up from 5). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Basilean Sisterhood Infantry - $25 Contains 20 Sisterhood (doubled up from 10). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Basilean Sisterhood Lancers (Cavalry) - $25 Contains 10 Sisterhood Lancers (doubled up from 5). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Ogre Warriors - $25 Contains 6 Ogres with Hand Weapons and Shields or Two-Handed Weapons (doubled up from 3). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Ogre Shooters - $25 Contains 6 Ogres with Crossbows or Blunderbusses (doubled up from 3). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Abyssal Dwarf/Twilight Kin Gargoyles - $25 Contains 20 Gargoyles (doubled up from 10). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Abyssal Dwarf Immortal Guard - $25 Contains 20 Immortal Guard (doubled up from 10). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Abyssal Dwarf Lesser Obsidian Golems - $25 Contains 6 Golems (doubled up from 3). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Dwarf Brock Riders - $25 Contains 10 Brock Riders (doubled up from 5). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Elf Palace Guard - $25 Contains 20 Palace Guard (doubled up from 10). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Elf Stormwind Cavalry - $25 (ships later in 2013) Contains 10 Stormwind Cavalry (doubled up from 5). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Goblin Fleabag Riders - $25 Contains 10 Fleabag Riders (doubled up from 5). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Goblin Mincer - $25 Contains 2 Mincers (doubled up from 1). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Orc Chariot/Fight Wagon - $25 Contains 2 Chariots or Fight Wagons (doubled up from 1). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Trolls - $25 Contains 6 Trolls (doubled up from 3). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Twilight Kin Dark Knights - $25 (ships later in 2013) Contains 10 Dark Knights (doubled up from 5). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Undead Mummies - $25 Contains 20 Mummies (doubled up from 10). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Undead Werewolves - $25 Contains 6 Werewolves (doubled up from 3). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Kings and Legends
The Kickstarter funded a new expansion book for Kings of War called Kings and Legends, bringing a host of new heroes into the game, with background, rules, and more. With the book finished, a lot of these heroes have now been sculpted, and we are able to offer them to you at discounted Kickstarter prices! * one copy of each of the starred items is already included with pledges of $225 and above. If this model is already included at your reward level, you do not need to select it here unless you want duplicates.
Kings and Legends Book - $10 (digital copy included free with pledges of $100 and up) Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Ba'su'su the Vile - Abyssal Dwarf Gargoyle Hero - $8 Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Berosos, High Priest of Basilea - $8 Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Herneas the Hunter, Dwarf Ranger Hero - $8 Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
* J'zik Gearlund, Dwarf Healer - $8 (ships later in 2013) Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Kernow, Warden of the Southern Watch, Dwarf Standard Bearer - $8 Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
* El'Rik Nisleen, Elf Mage Hero - $8 (ships later in 2013) Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
The Green Lady, Elf Hero - $8 Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Grokagamok, Ogre Mercenary Captain - $12 Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Ogre Command Upgrade Pack - $10 Contains enough components to upgrade an Ogre unit with a command group. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
* Atlak Nakh, Twilight Kin Hero - $8 (ships later in 2013) Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
* Mikayel, Lord of Nightmares, Twilight Kin Hero - $12 (ships later in 2013) Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Lady Ilona, Undead Vampiress - $10 (note that this model is already included in certain reward levels - see the main KS page for details) Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Lord Malak, Vampire Hero on Winged Hellsteed (new rider sculpt) - $20 Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
The Basilean Legacy
The Kings of War Kickstarter allowed us to create an entire new army - the Basileans, a race of fanatical religious humans (see the BOGOF section above). To supplement the core of the army funded by the Kickstarter, there is also a range of heroes and other miniatures available, as well as the book, containing background and army lists. The focus of this book is Basilea, but it also contains lists for the forces of Nature and the Abyss. * one copy of each of the starred items is already included with pledges of $225 and above. If this model is already included at your reward level, you do not need to select it here unless you want duplicates.
The Basilean Legacy Book - $15 Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
* Basilean Angel Hero Jullius - $15 (ships later in 2013) Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
* Basilean Angel Mage Hero Samacris - $15 (ships later in 2013) Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
* Basilean Lord on Lion - $15 (ships later in 2013) Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Basilean Sisterhood Panther Chariot - $15 Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Basilean Men-at-Arms Command Upgrade Pack - $4 Contains enough components to upgrade a Men-at-Arms unit with a command group. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Basilean Men-at-Arms Crossbow Upgrade Pack - $5 Contains enough components to upgrade 10 Men-at-Arms to Crossbowmen. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Basilean Paladin Command Upgrade Pack - $4 Contains enough components to upgrade a Paladin or Paladin Knights unit with a command group. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Basilean Sisterhood Command Upgrade Pack - $4 Contains enough components to upgrade a Sisterhood or Sisterhood Lancers unit with a command group. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
* Druid Hero - $10 (ships later in 2013) Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
* Air Elemental Hero - $10 (ships later in 2013) Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Other Items
The success of the Kickstarter has allowed us to create all sorts of extra little items to supplement your armies with, and here you can get all of them at discounted Kickstarter prices!
Kings of War Digital Art Book - $5 Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Kickstarter Exclusive Undead Dog Handler - $5 (note that this model is included FREE in pledges of $100 and up) Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Limited Edition Undead Standard Bearer - $10 (note that this model is included FREE in pledges of $175 and up) Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Goblin Hero Set - $15 Contains Biggit, Flaggit & Wiz. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Goblin Fleabag Rider Command Upgrade Pack - $4 Contains enough components to upgrade a Fleabag Rider unit with a command group. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Goblin Fleabag Rider Archer Upgrade Pack - $5 Contains enough components to upgrade 10 Fleabag Riders to Archers. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Abyssal Dwarf Fire Team - $12 Contains 3 models to make an Abyssal Dwarf Fire Team. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
That's actually quite an interesting news/rumour info dump there as well,looks like we'll be getting Panther Chariots, Abyssal fire teams and Fleabag sniffs as releases.
Well I guess ultimately it will always be a subjective judgement (within reason - I do agree the cat riders aren't particular evocative). I think those trolls are less ridiculous than the PP ones (ok.. that's probably the wrong term, how about 'extreme'), and actually look pretty similar to the LoTR trolls - in that sense, yes the price definitely does come into it, especially as here in the UK I can buy 3 of them for 1 GW troll. And I'm guessing in Aus you could probably get about 16, and still have enough cash left over to crack open some tinnies?
Well, liking them is obviously subjective. Matching the concept art or not is pretty cut and dried.
Only some of the trollblood stuff has ridiculous proportions, and even those have better-than-toothpick legs (like the Mantic concept art)
These are LotR trolls - the Mantic ones are nothing like them, unfortunately. My plan (which has been flushed with the pictures of the Mantic ones) was to actually use the Mantic ones as LotR ones, and also to use them if I ever repurpose my old WHFB armies to KoW. The concept art (both armoured and unarmoured) were "close enough" but unfortunately between concept and final sculpt they've contracted a mixture of atrophy and gigantism.
If it was just about price - and to me, it isn't. I'd just buy a bunch of these for less than the Mantic ones.
I should point out that I actually do have a couple of these, as it's a fine model.
I also don't actually need the trolls. But imagine how cool a giant unit of 18-24 of those (concept art) trolls would have looked marching across a table. That';s why I went in big for them.
See, the thing is. I'm not angry, but I'm annoyed on a number of levels. There's the bait-and-switch from concept to final - or simply poor editing - or not being willing to tell a freelancer "no, do it again!" So as a backer, I feel I've spent money I probably would not have. (I'd never buy that gak in a store, after all!) And that leads to my next point. I actually seriously do want Mantic to do well. I want them to become a legitimate challenger to GW. Pumping out gakky sculpts like this just isn't going to do it. I can imagine the guys at GW laughing when they see these sculpts, as they work to lessen Mantic's stature.
I think part of the issue here is that Mantic have set themselves a pretty tight schedule. They are producing miniatures at a very fast rate (especially considering how small the company is!) and by extension of that perhaps some of our expectations are too high. This isn't Corvus Belli, McVey miniatures or Hawk miniatures, where the miniature pieces are bordering on serious works of art - and you can almost feel the passion and thought that has gone into the creation of the miniature. Instead, Mantic are producing miniatures which I think most casual fans will view as good enough in most cases, exceptional in some, with the odd Pumbagore - and they are producing them at an incredibly cheap price. Nice if you have the money to chose to have an all GW orc army or whatever, but not all fans of wargaming do. At least Mantic has created an option of a cheap mass-battle system that didn't exist even 2 to 3 years ago.
Bit of a red herring there. The figures are indeed on a tight schedule, but they're hiring freelancers to do them. There are also only three trolls, and frankly, these models have to be their range for years to come, and based on the concepts they could have, should have kicked so much arse. Imagine if we could argue from a position of strength that not only are their trolls 1/3 the cost of a GW one, but actually equal or better sculpts. Instead, we have clownshoes and "well, they're cheaper!" May as well just buy ranks of the Reaper Bones one instead and convert the limbs over and over.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Bolognesus wrote: ...And TBH some of us would vastly prefer mantic orcs over GW orcs, too. Now if you're going to argue mantic's dwarfs really do look the budget-part well, I can only agree. The orcs however are really quite good. Bit out of left-field style-wise, perhaps.
The orcs/orx are stylistically different. That's a personal aesthetic thing. People may like or dislike them, but they're not bad sculpts or disproportionate. Even GW's current Orks work in terms of aping the proportions of a gorilla in a reasonable way for miniatures.
I imagine they will be diplomatic in a "thank you for your feedback" way with the comments and absolutely fine with me changing them. I didn't quote the email in full, but it did include this statement:
If you need anything that doesn't fit within the questions on the survey, or you want to make a change to your existing order, just mention it in the comments box. Please visit the Kings of War Kickstarter page for a reminder of the available options:
But I will repost their reply. I'm really most interested in seeing if they're willing to show us the rest of the models before shipping them so we can make informed choices. (because, yeah, I was still pretty keen on the trolls until about 2 days ago!)
Bolognesus wrote: ...And TBH some of us would vastly prefer mantic orcs over GW orcs, too. Now if you're going to argue mantic's dwarfs really do look the budget-part well, I can only agree. The orcs however are really quite good. Bit out of left-field style-wise, perhaps.
The orcs/orx are stylistically different. That's a personal aesthetic thing. People may like or dislike them, but they're not bad sculpts or disproportionate. Even GW's current Orks work in terms of aping the proportions of a gorilla in a reasonable way for miniatures.
..Uuhm, I don't believe we actually disagree here?
The orcs/orx are stylistically different. That's a personal aesthetic thing. People may like or dislike them, but they're not bad sculpts or disproportionate. Even GW's current Orks work in terms of aping the proportions of a gorilla in a reasonable way for miniatures.
..Uuhm, I don't believe we actually disagree here?
No, we don't. I was agreeing with you. We're allowed to post agreeing opinions as well as contrary ones.
Thanks scarletsquig. Some surprising things on that list:
I wonder if this ogre hero in the army set is the same one we got for free already?
Ba'su'su the Vile - Abyssal Dwarf Gargoyle Hero - $8 Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Berosos, High Priest of Basilea - $8 Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Herneas the Hunter, Dwarf Ranger Hero - $8 Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Kernow, Warden of the Southern Watch, Dwarf Standard Bearer - $8 Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
The Green Lady, Elf Hero - $8 Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Grokagamok, Ogre Mercenary Captain - $12 Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Ogre Command Upgrade Pack - $10 Contains enough components to upgrade an Ogre unit with a command group. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Lady Ilona, Undead Vampiress - $10 (note that this model is already included in certain reward levels - see the main KS page for details) Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Lord Malak, Vampire Hero on Winged Hellsteed (new rider sculpt) - $20 Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Basilean Sisterhood Panther Chariot - $15 Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Basilean Men-at-Arms Command Upgrade Pack - $4 Contains enough components to upgrade a Men-at-Arms unit with a command group. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Basilean Men-at-Arms Crossbow Upgrade Pack - $5 Contains enough components to upgrade 10 Men-at-Arms to Crossbowmen. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Basilean Paladin Command Upgrade Pack - $4 Contains enough components to upgrade a Paladin or Paladin Knights unit with a command group. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Basilean Sisterhood Command Upgrade Pack - $4 Contains enough components to upgrade a Sisterhood or Sisterhood Lancers unit with a command group. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Goblin Hero Set - $15 Contains Biggit, Flaggit & Wiz. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Goblin Fleabag Rider Command Upgrade Pack - $4 Contains enough components to upgrade a Fleabag Rider unit with a command group. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Goblin Fleabag Rider Archer Upgrade Pack - $5 Contains enough components to upgrade 10 Fleabag Riders to Archers. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
Abyssal Dwarf Fire Team - $12 Contains 3 models to make an Abyssal Dwarf Fire Team. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.
That should pretty much be the models that weren't available as of the kickstarter.
I'm really surprised the basilian command set isn't included on the sprue. Looks like there will be a quite a few command group upgrades that need to be added to make a basilian army.
Very cool that the abyssal dwarf fire team is available.
I just wish they weren't asking us to buy things like the sisterhood chariot blind. I like the idea of a cat chariot, but I need to see it before taking the plunge at this point.
Azazelx wrote: I just wish they weren't asking us to buy things like the sisterhood chariot blind. I like the idea of a cat chariot, but I need to see it before taking the plunge at this point.
If you hated the ridden cats, I imagine you wouldn't like this much more. Probably work better pulling a chariot than being ridden, but I don't think they'll be much different.
It depends on whether they've kept the same proportions, reused the same sculpts, or have new sculpts with more realistic proportions. With Mantic, it could go either way, but without pics there's no way of knowing - and as you correctly suggest, not worth the risk sight unseen if you dislike the cavalry ones.
The orcs/orx are stylistically different. That's a personal aesthetic thing. People may like or dislike them, but they're not bad sculpts or disproportionate. Even GW's current Orks work in terms of aping the proportions of a gorilla in a reasonable way for miniatures.
..Uuhm, I don't believe we actually disagree here?
No, we don't. I was agreeing with you. We're allowed to post agreeing opinions as well as contrary ones.
...aren't we?
Sure! Not really used to it here, that's all
I believe mantic did at one point promise we'd get to see all sculpts before having to finalize the survey; I hope they make good on that.
Besides that, I do hope they'll let me trade my Basilean BOGOFs (6 of them...) for that army deal; would feel kind of crap getting waaay too many MaA and no free chariot now...
Oh, and here's to hoping those command packs do get made available separately after the KS... I have three $225 pledges in (don't ask... went crazy. Still quite happy with them though ) so I'd probably be wise to get some command sets but it's a MAJOR hassle figuring that all out amidst a thesis deadline and a bunch of exams looming. First world problems, etc
I really need to see the rest of the sculpts before I got ahead and pick what I want.
I am likely to redirect my $195 worth of BOGOF and other choices to Basilean, but I need to see exactly what is coming down the pike for them so I can better make my decision.
I am hoping that they release the photo's soon so I can exactly choose what I want. So far it looks like it will be $125 worth of Men at arms, some upgrade sprues and heroes, and I don't know what else. I need more details if I am going to make an informed decision.
Edit: Looks like their open day is tomorrow. I am hoping someone takes some shots of the new units, or they release them on the same day. Can't just rely on poor photographs from other people to showcase your models Mantic.
I shelled out for a rather large Basilean force. And apparently none of them come with command components? So I have to pay for those now too.
WORSE - I'm guessing all these little upgrade packs are probably metal bits? I hate hybrid models. Not very happy :/
Already asked over at the Mantic forum about all of that, I knew it'd come up. Just waiting on a reply at the moment.
I didn't bother adding any of the command options, $5 for one arm with a horn and another arm with a pointy stick didn't exactly strike me as a compelling purchase. :p
I believe mantic did at one point promise we'd get to see all sculpts before having to finalize the survey; I hope they make good on that.
Besides that, I do hope they'll let me trade my Basilean BOGOFs (6 of them...) for that army deal; would feel kind of crap getting waaay too many MaA and no free chariot now...
Oh, and here's to hoping those command packs do get made available separately after the KS... I have three $225 pledges in (don't ask... went crazy. Still quite happy with them though ) so I'd probably be wise to get some command sets but it's a MAJOR hassle figuring that all out amidst a thesis deadline and a bunch of exams looming. First world problems, etc
What army deal is that? My wife and I both have $225s in on this, and we were going to do do a whole lot of stuff with the trolls and cat cavalry (amongst others) as I'm teaching her to paint.
Already asked over at the Mantic forum about all of that, I knew it'd come up. Just waiting on a reply at the moment.
I didn't bother adding any of the command options, $5 for one arm with a horn and another arm with a pointy stick didn't exactly strike me as a compelling purchase. :p
I'm also wondering what exactly a "command pack" is. It could range from a couple of arms as you suggest to the sort of "command blister" that GW used to include in their plastic regiment boxed sets. Typically, the GW ones would include a commander head, commander weapon, metal instrument, metal standard pole and icon for the standard top, and sometimes a second head for the musician/standard (or some bits to glue on them). What you're suggesting sounds like awful value, and a bit unlike Mantic's usual. The GW-style add-ons would be reasonable for the price - though a plastic command sprue or just having the command extras on the plastic sprue would have made much more sense...
Hybrid regiment kits are often gakky, but it's okay for a couple of specific add-ons to a command group IMO. They could just as easily be in spin-cast restic in this case, so I guess we wait and see if we get a reply.
Fenriswulf wrote: I really need to see the rest of the sculpts before I got ahead and pick what I want.
I am likely to redirect my $195 worth of BOGOF and other choices to Basilean, but I need to see exactly what is coming down the pike for them so I can better make my decision.
I am hoping that they release the photo's soon so I can exactly choose what I want. So far it looks like it will be $125 worth of Men at arms, some upgrade sprues and heroes, and I don't know what else. I need more details if I am going to make an informed decision.
Edit: Looks like their open day is tomorrow. I am hoping someone takes some shots of the new units, or they release them on the same day. Can't just rely on poor photographs from other people to showcase your models Mantic.
Yeah. The ogres are ..okay. I don't hate the Werewolves as a few other people do, but with all the cheap Confrontation figures I've picked up recently, I don't exactly need a whole lot of them so the included ones will probably suffice. We went in big on the trolls, ogres and cat cav, so that's a lot of BOGOFs to need to replace now.
agnosto wrote: GOD! Why in the @&#^# do they have to make everything have tinsy tiny little legs?!?!?!?
Because Mantic has no eye for proportions that don't look like gak, and never has.
Compared to who? Thunderbolt Mountain Miniatures? If you're talking proportions, GW's models look like gak, PP's models look like gak. Giant ham fists and balloon heads. Especially GW orcs, who look like slowed hydrocephalic babies. Thank god Mantic came along, now I have a giant army of actual evil looking orcs with proper proportions.
Compared to artists in general. "But Games Workshop sucks too!" is an idiot's response. If you're going to sculpt a miniature that might be in production for a decade or more, half-assing it is stupid, even if your competition half-asses theirs.
Using the cathorse as an example, here's a leotau from Magic: the Gathering. Even though it literally has hooves, the legs are sized like a cat's and not like a horse's, which means it looks like its own creature and not just a lion sculpted by someone who only knows how to sculpt horses.
I believe mantic did at one point promise we'd get to see all sculpts before having to finalize the survey; I hope they make good on that. Besides that, I do hope they'll let me trade my Basilean BOGOFs (6 of them...) for that army deal; would feel kind of crap getting waaay too many MaA and no free chariot now... Oh, and here's to hoping those command packs do get made available separately after the KS... I have three $225 pledges in (don't ask... went crazy. Still quite happy with them though ) so I'd probably be wise to get some command sets but it's a MAJOR hassle figuring that all out amidst a thesis deadline and a bunch of exams looming. First world problems, etc
What army deal is that? My wife and I both have $225s in on this, and we were going to do do a whole lot of stuff with the trolls and cat cavalry (amongst others) as I'm teaching her to paint.
Basilean Army Deal- $150 This set contains 6 Elohi, 40 Men-at-Arms, 20 Paladins, 10 Paladin Knights, 20 Sisterhood Infantry, 10 Sisterhood Lancers, and a FREE Sisterhood Panther Chariot.
I have three MaA BOGOFs, two paladin bogofs and a sisterhood bogof; 6 BOGOFs should exchange nicely for this of course, if you hate the cats, this might not be such a great idea. I do hope they'll include command sets in an army deal at least, come to think of it...
Azazelx wrote: Just got the pledge manager email. The email mainly talks about adding on models.
I sent this in reply. I thought it important to give non-abusive feedback with regard to the concept art and showing us what the final items are:
Hi Stewart,
I'm unfortunately unhappy with many of the final models and the large amount of deviation between what was shown in concept art and the final product (trolls). Other sculpts are simply sub-par (cathorse). With this in mind, I wish to radically change the items in my pledge, so I would like the full list associated with my pledge.
Will the other models that have not yet been shown be displayed properly (ie: hi-res pics) before we have to lock this in? There are quite a few not yet previewed or shown and I'd hate to have to throw away a pile of my money/pledge. Do you have a URL/URLS showing the completed models?
thank you,
I suspect we will see the pics on the weekend as its Mantics open day tomorrow. Though I would rather of been notified though the KS (thus sending an email notification) rather then searching the interwebz to try and find the pics!
So far the only models I really dislike are the cathorse, I goy excited when I saw the mounted hero on the lion thingy then I saw a picture of those things!
If anybody from the UK does not want their trolls and/or ogres (with hand weapons) I'm after 2 packs of each (BOGOF) of each and will happily pay the $25 (£16.50) Mantic are asking in the survey for each plus appropriate postage
(or if anybody from the UK is willing to add them onto their survey for my)
I suspect we will see the pics on the weekend as its Mantics open day tomorrow. Though I would rather of been notified though the KS (thus sending an email notification) rather then searching the interwebz to try and find the pics!
So far the only models I really dislike are the cathorse, I goy excited when I saw the mounted hero on the lion thingy then I saw a picture of those things!
I didn't know that. I just got the ONE CLICK ONLY survey with no mention of them showing off the new KS models or the new, new models. I liked the lion hero. Might need some dental surgery, but otherwise it looked good.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Remember, people will be getting single sets of 3 models by default. They'll likely be re-allocating their BOGOFs to models they actually like.
I'll be at the Open Day tomorrow, and I'll be aiming to provide similar coverage to what I managed at the FWD Open Day last month - smartphone pictures while I'm at the event, with proper photos that evening.
Now, we have no idea what will be on display, but is there anything people want me to keep a lens out for?
Pics of that chariot would make be much appreciated by many, I'd guess. aside from that well, everything, really
Could you ask the mantic crew a few questions, please? (they seem to take their bl**dy time answering email atm ) - Will the Basilean army deal include any command bits? Are command bits going to be included in unit boxes as sold into retail (while apparently not being present in the BOGOF deals)? - What material are the upgrade bits made out of? I''m talking command packs here, but also for example the basilean MaA crossbows. Metal or restic? Precisely which components will be in those packs? (pics would be nice, but just a simple list of components would get us by). - I remember mantic stating, in the comments on update #66, that while they couldn't get the PDF's out to us on time they'd try to at least give us a peek at the lists in the books so we can decide what to get and what not. How is this coming? there's only about two weeks to get that survey sent in and I'd like at least a few days to mull over lists etc. I don't think anyone would mind something which looks sloppy, just stamp a big fat "Layout WIP" over the bunch of it; I can't for the life of me imagine the rules aren't finalized yet... - The ogre named character, grokamarok. Same as the 'regular' hero we get? survey doesn't have it listed with an * so I'd say not but I don't see an option for the 'regular' character either so could go either way?
Personally I'd like a bunch of pics of the abyssal golems and the ogre models as well as the mincer; I'd imagine a bunch of closeups from different angles of as much Basilean stuff as you can photograph would be appreciated by many
Dysartes wrote: I'll be at the Open Day tomorrow, and I'll be aiming to provide similar coverage to what I managed at the FWD Open Day last month - smartphone pictures while I'm at the event, with proper photos that evening.
Now, we have no idea what will be on display, but is there anything people want me to keep a lens out for?
Excellent stuff, look forward to seeing your coverage Dysartes!
Just thinking ahead to tomorrow, would a Mantic Open Day thread (not to be confused with a MOD thread) be worth setting up, rather than trying to cross-post content in the various threads going on at the moment?
Just so I know where to look for when I start posting tomorrow...
Arctic Dragon wrote: Will the Werewolves be sold individually or as packs of 3 or more?
I believe they will be a 3-pack, as many of the other large troop/monstrous infantry models will - trolls, ogres, ogre cannon, abyssal dwarf golems, etc
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Dysartes wrote: I'll be at the Open Day tomorrow, and I'll be aiming to provide similar coverage to what I managed at the FWD Open Day last month - smartphone pictures while I'm at the event, with proper photos that evening.
Now, we have no idea what will be on display, but is there anything people want me to keep a lens out for?
Um.. everything that hasn't been shown? And the stuff that's only been shown as bits? Sorry, it's not your responsibility but sadly you may end up being the key source of pics for Mantic's models, as opposed to, you know, Mantic.
I can't remember, and I don't want to wait for a reply from mantic until after Open Day, so: did I order my BOGOF minis with the first survey, or should I request them with the second one?
At the Open Day, though my mobile internet connection is very poor here. Goblin mincer & two Basilean infantry units on display that I've seen thus far.
Automatically Appended Next Post: (Hopefully) Breaking News - the IP license Mantic got was for Mars Attacks...
Automatically Appended Next Post: the Mummies look amazing, the goblin Mincer looks ridiculously awesome, and the Werewolves look better than I thought
Automatically Appended Next Post: the Mummies look amazing, the goblin Mincer looks ridiculously awesome, and the Werewolves look better than I thought
I thought the Mummies were average. But other than that I agree with what you've said here.
The Werewolves look much better now they the arms have been glued on in a somewhat logical position, the gaps filed, and a coat of paint has been applied. I might even get a few to (heavily) modify and use.
Some of the female troops had weirdly long arms. Not sure how that was allowed to get through.
Like the Werewolves, Trolls look good from the waist up, the Goblin Mincer looks awesome, the Basilean Paladins on foot look very good (kind of like the old Rackham Griffon Templars), the Sisters look ok, but the arms are far too long. Can be modified easily enough.
Mummies are ok, but I wasn't really going to have a use for them so that's likely to tarnish things. Still need to see the rest of stuff on offer first to make a better decision.
Yeah, pretty hit and miss there. Werewolves look fine, though the decision to paint them hairless is an odd one. I didn't realize there was no texture over most of their bodies, so hopefully they look okay if you paint them as if they have fur everywhere. Otherwise, I think they look odd.
Sisters don't look good at all. They have huge, poorly sculpted hands and long, oddly posed arms. Not happy with those. Though the paladins on foot look really good.
Trolls are still terrible. The mummies also look nothing like the concept art, but I may consider getting some now (to replace my buy one/get one trolls I don't want). They could make good Grave Guard stand in, since they have armor and weapons. And aside from some gigantic hands, they actually look pretty cool.
Bolognesus wrote: Could you ask the mantic crew a few questions, please? (they seem to take their bl**dy time answering email atm )
- Will the Basilean army deal include any command bits? Are command bits going to be included in unit boxes as sold into retail (while apparently not being present in the BOGOF deals)?
- What material are the upgrade bits made out of? I''m talking command packs here, but also for example the basilean MaA crossbows. Metal or restic? Precisely which components will be in those packs? (pics would be nice, but just a simple list of components would get us by).
- I remember mantic stating, in the comments on update #66, that while they couldn't get the PDF's out to us on time they'd try to at least give us a peek at the lists in the books so we can decide what to get and what not. How is this coming? there's only about two weeks to get that survey sent in and I'd like at least a few days to mull over lists etc. I don't think anyone would mind something which looks sloppy, just stamp a big fat "Layout WIP" over the bunch of it; I can't for the life of me imagine the rules aren't finalized yet...
- The ogre named character, grokamarok. Same as the 'regular' hero we get? survey doesn't have it listed with an * so I'd say not but I don't see an option for the 'regular' character either so could go either way?
Managed to corner Stewart Gibbs and get answers to these, after prodding Ronnie about Q4 during the seminar. Not sure how happy you'll be with the answers.
1a, No. 1b, Apologies, I missed that question.
2, Upgrade kits are metal.
3, Both Stewart and Ronnie were prodded to make sure we get to see everything before the end of the survey - apparently there is quite a bit awaiting Golem to finish painting at the minute. We may get a Word doc version of the Basilean list to look at to judge your pledge.
4, The named Ogre is the one that the KS backers get as a "regular" hero. According to Stewart, the KS backers get a resin version, while the general release version will be restic.
The werewolves I thought looked better with flesh for the most part - you could quite easily paint them a dark colour (grey or black) but I wanted to both show off the musculature (which is really nicely sculpted) and have a higher contrast paintjob - the furry manes would easily blend in to a darker base colour, and without texture on the bulk of the skin I didn't think it'd look as good.
Hey, I have the undead war elephants and the skeletal giant and dragon they used in the big KoW battle! Any idea what rules they used to represent them?
Bolognesus wrote: Could you ask the mantic crew a few questions, please? (they seem to take their bl**dy time answering email atm )
- Will the Basilean army deal include any command bits? Are command bits going to be included in unit boxes as sold into retail (while apparently not being present in the BOGOF deals)?
- What material are the upgrade bits made out of? I''m talking command packs here, but also for example the basilean MaA crossbows. Metal or restic? Precisely which components will be in those packs? (pics would be nice, but just a simple list of components would get us by).
- I remember mantic stating, in the comments on update #66, that while they couldn't get the PDF's out to us on time they'd try to at least give us a peek at the lists in the books so we can decide what to get and what not. How is this coming? there's only about two weeks to get that survey sent in and I'd like at least a few days to mull over lists etc. I don't think anyone would mind something which looks sloppy, just stamp a big fat "Layout WIP" over the bunch of it; I can't for the life of me imagine the rules aren't finalized yet...
- The ogre named character, grokamarok. Same as the 'regular' hero we get? survey doesn't have it listed with an * so I'd say not but I don't see an option for the 'regular' character either so could go either way?
Managed to corner Stewart Gibbs and get answers to these, after prodding Ronnie about Q4 during the seminar. Not sure how happy you'll be with the answers.
1a, No. 1b, Apologies, I missed that question.
2, Upgrade kits are metal.
3, Both Stewart and Ronnie were prodded to make sure we get to see everything before the end of the survey - apparently there is quite a bit awaiting Golem to finish painting at the minute. We may get a Word doc version of the Basilean list to look at to judge your pledge.
4, The named Ogre is the one that the KS backers get as a "regular" hero. According to Stewart, the KS backers get a resin version, while the general release version will be restic.
Okay, thanks. I'll refrain from shooting the messenger 1a. Meh. Kinda missing the ball there, mantic... 1b Hmm shame, that was actually the one most likely to induce significant amounts of rage...
2. okay, figures. thanks. ...The Ogre bits too? that's going to see a lot of weighed-down bases for that musician. Oh well.
3. MAY see? Dang, that's disappointing - and rather sloppy on their part.
4. fair 'nuff. Won't say I like it but it's not too bad
Bolognesus wrote: Could you ask the mantic crew a few questions, please? (they seem to take their bl**dy time answering email atm )
- Will the Basilean army deal include any command bits? Are command bits going to be included in unit boxes as sold into retail (while apparently not being present in the BOGOF deals)?
- What material are the upgrade bits made out of? I''m talking command packs here, but also for example the basilean MaA crossbows. Metal or restic? Precisely which components will be in those packs? (pics would be nice, but just a simple list of components would get us by).
- I remember mantic stating, in the comments on update #66, that while they couldn't get the PDF's out to us on time they'd try to at least give us a peek at the lists in the books so we can decide what to get and what not. How is this coming? there's only about two weeks to get that survey sent in and I'd like at least a few days to mull over lists etc. I don't think anyone would mind something which looks sloppy, just stamp a big fat "Layout WIP" over the bunch of it; I can't for the life of me imagine the rules aren't finalized yet...
- The ogre named character, grokamarok. Same as the 'regular' hero we get? survey doesn't have it listed with an * so I'd say not but I don't see an option for the 'regular' character either so could go either way?
Managed to corner Stewart Gibbs and get answers to these, after prodding Ronnie about Q4 during the seminar. Not sure how happy you'll be with the answers.
1a, No. 1b, Apologies, I missed that question.
2, Upgrade kits are metal.
3, Both Stewart and Ronnie were prodded to make sure we get to see everything before the end of the survey - apparently there is quite a bit awaiting Golem to finish painting at the minute. We may get a Word doc version of the Basilean list to look at to jhudge your pledge.
4, The named Ogre is the one that the KS backers get as a "regular" hero. According to Stewart, the KS backers get a resin version, while the general release version will be restic.
Okay, thanks. I'll refrain from shooting the messenger 1a. Meh. Kinda missing the ball there, mantic... 1b Hmm shame, that was actually the one most likely to induce significant amounts of rage...
2. okay, figures. thanks. ...The Ogre bits too? that's going to see a lot of weighed-down bases for that musician. Oh well.
3. MAY see? Dang, that's disappointing - and rather sloppy on their part.
4. fair 'nuff. Won't say I like it but it's not too bad
On 3, Bologneseus, I'm putting it as a may as I didn't get a definite yes, Ronnie is aware that previews haven't been as timely as they should have been, and isn't that happy about it. Unfortunately, pretty much all their staff have spent the last three weeks packing & shipping Dreadball season 2 stuff, which hasn't helped with getting pictures online. Stewart did say he'd look into getting a Word doc online, but didn't say "it'll be up by Friday", for example - I don't want to be seen to be putting words into their mouths.
I'll get my pictures and seminar notes up tomorrow.
Some of the arms on the Basilean nuns look BAD. Also annoying that I won't be getting any command bits for the large Basilean army I ordered, and that I won't want those bits anyway because they're metal. So the Basileans have been Mantic'd right up. Ebay for them.
Pleasantly surprised by how nice the Orc chariot/fight wagon looks (I'm guessing that's the wagon shown). So I'll have that and the trolls for my Night Goblins at least.
Mummies look good too. And the werewolves look better than I expected - though I don't think I'll go with naked wolves!
Automatically Appended Next Post: the Mummies look amazing, the goblin Mincer looks ridiculously awesome, and the Werewolves look better than I thought
I thought the Mummies were average. But other than that I agree with what you've said here.
The Werewolves look much better now they the arms have been glued on in a somewhat logical position, the gaps filed, and a coat of paint has been applied. I might even get a few to (heavily) modify and use.
Some of the female troops had weirdly long arms. Not sure how that was allowed to get through.
~Eric
The mummies look okay. I won't be unhappy to get them as freebies, but I won't go out of my way to buy more. I'm glad my faith in the werewolves sculpt pics from earlier has come out. I'll just shave down the nipples and they'll be fine. I like that goblin chariot thing. Looks like I'll be swapping some trolls out for a couple more of them. I noticed the elongated arms on the girls as well as something weird going on with their oversized hands with elongated fingers. I suppose they can be cut down easily enough. I guess it's just Mantic's poor QC. Again, other than the arms they look okay, but not amazing. Same deal with the armoured infantry. No change to my opinion of the trolls.
Bolognesus wrote: Could you ask the mantic crew a few questions, please? (they seem to take their bl**dy time answering email atm )
- Will the Basilean army deal include any command bits? Are command bits going to be included in unit boxes as sold into retail (while apparently not being present in the BOGOF deals)?
- What material are the upgrade bits made out of? I''m talking command packs here, but also for example the basilean MaA crossbows. Metal or restic? Precisely which components will be in those packs? (pics would be nice, but just a simple list of components would get us by).
- I remember mantic stating, in the comments on update #66, that while they couldn't get the PDF's out to us on time they'd try to at least give us a peek at the lists in the books so we can decide what to get and what not. How is this coming? there's only about two weeks to get that survey sent in and I'd like at least a few days to mull over lists etc. I don't think anyone would mind something which looks sloppy, just stamp a big fat "Layout WIP" over the bunch of it; I can't for the life of me imagine the rules aren't finalized yet...
- The ogre named character, grokamarok. Same as the 'regular' hero we get? survey doesn't have it listed with an * so I'd say not but I don't see an option for the 'regular' character either so could go either way?
Managed to corner Stewart Gibbs and get answers to these, after prodding Ronnie about Q4 during the seminar. Not sure how happy you'll be with the answers.
1a, No. 1b, Apologies, I missed that question.
2, Upgrade kits are metal.
3, Both Stewart and Ronnie were prodded to make sure we get to see everything before the end of the survey - apparently there is quite a bit awaiting Golem to finish painting at the minute. We may get a Word doc version of the Basilean list to look at to jhudge your pledge.
4, The named Ogre is the one that the KS backers get as a "regular" hero. According to Stewart, the KS backers get a resin version, while the general release version will be restic.
Okay, thanks. I'll refrain from shooting the messenger 1a. Meh. Kinda missing the ball there, mantic... 1b Hmm shame, that was actually the one most likely to induce significant amounts of rage...
2. okay, figures. thanks. ...The Ogre bits too? that's going to see a lot of weighed-down bases for that musician. Oh well.
3. MAY see? Dang, that's disappointing - and rather sloppy on their part.
4. fair 'nuff. Won't say I like it but it's not too bad
On 3, Bologneseus, I'm putting it as a may as I didn't get a definite yes, Ronnie is aware that previews haven't been as timely as they should have been, and isn't that happy about it. Unfortunately, pretty much all their staff have spent the last three weeks packing & shipping Dreadball season 2 stuff, which hasn't helped with getting pictures online. Stewart did say he'd look into getting a Word doc online, but didn't say "it'll be up by Friday", for example - I don't want to be seen to be putting words into their mouths.
I'll get my pictures and seminar notes up tomorrow.
Yeah, I figured something like that - it's just that since they'll obviously have the rules done by now, something as important as this, which would only take one guy a few hours to knock up on a desktop, should have *just* *been* *done* before that second survey went out. As much as I love mantic most of the time, some of these glitches are really pretty damn unprofessional, and make them much less reliable for us as consumers to spend a significant chunk of cash with...
Again, definately not intended to shoot the messenger
Just went back and looked over the photo's people have posted up. A bit disappointed with the Paladin's now, as they have huge monkey hands on them with exceedingly long digits. Was looking to do a nice unit of them for Greatswords, but it looks like that's not so much the go now.
I am a big supporter of Mantic, but going away from truescale is a big mistake. Heroic scale annoys the hell out of me, and it was one reason why I invested so heavily in the Kings of War undead line. To see it come back to these new sculpts (especially with the Basilean Sisters and their terrible out of proportion arms and hands) is really disappointing. They can be saved with the right amount of converting, but good luck finding appropriate sized arms/hands for the sisters.
I know Mantic likes to make a lot of value for people, but I would prefer quality to be a good standard to have as well.
So far it looks like my BOGOF choices have eliminated most of my previous decisions, and I am tentatively hoping the Men-At-Arms hold the same proportions as their older style miniatures (realistic sizes for body parts rather than goofy heroic ones). If so I am down for 120 of them, and the rest will likely be heroes, books and other addons.
Now I will have the $225 amount of free figures which I might see if I can't swap out with other people for things I want, otherwise they'll become bitz fodder. I am feeling I am getting less value out of this than I had at the beginning, as the freebies I am getting from the pledge really aren't worth all that much to me to be honest.
Think the mummies look kind of cool (and nice they haven't just gone for the usual Boris Karloff 'covered in stained tissue paper' style), the barbarian dude looks kind of nice as well. Is he a special character for one of the other factions?
I have to say I really liked the mummies. Brilliant idea to make them into a more generic 'elite undead' looking unit, whilst still giving them enough of a bandaged look to be immediately identifiable as mummies if needed.
Oh, I dunno if this is a known fact, but Stew confimed that the Wight sculpts were originally commissioned as 2-handed Revenants, but they weren't happy with them so repurposed them as the Wights.
What's the story on those Twilight Kin Dark Knights? Are they restic or metal? And are they mounted or on foot? If they're restic and on foot, I can easily see myself getting tons of those.
Barzam wrote: What's the story on those Twilight Kin Dark Knights? Are they restic or metal? And are they mounted or on foot? If they're restic and on foot, I can easily see myself getting tons of those.
They'll be restic, and mounted (I think Mantic are making a generic horse model that the two Elf cavalry units will share, presumably with different heads).
I did ask Stew about the future of the Twilight Kin and he said they have plans to revisit the range properly, but it's a low priority at the moment (due to kickstarter obligations). I pressed him on whether an updated range would match the aeshetic of those Knights and he said it was likely.
So at some point in the future (and I'm guessing that's well into 2014 at the earliest) you might see some Darksome Guard looking very similar to that concept art.
Still not looking good. Scale creep on a massive level, and the hands are far too massive, even for a miniature of that size. Compare it to the hand size of the skeleton (yes I realise it's a skeletons hand, but even so). The arm doesn't seem to be attached properly, so I am not 100% on the length of the arms, but again they look too long.
I am really hoping for Mantic to pull something out of the bag, but with each shot coming out from different sources, it's looking more and more bleak.
The skelly is about 1mm too small...and that's assuming its for a regular man-sized model and that the paladin isn't chosen for his size and skill-maybe the men chosen to the ranks of paladin in the Basillean army are of gigantic proportions. I, for one, think they're amazing. Hello great swords (and paladins, of course, in my Bas. Army).
Yeah...I think those Paladins look pretty great. I don't mind a little scale creep from basic troops to the elites. Hopefully the men-at-arms are similar size to the skeletons (eg, only a tiny bit bigger).
A bit small but then they don't need to necessarily be the same race unless the undead line has skeletal Angels as well. D&D has humanoid races which appear quite human but are not (Aasimar being a close example). I don't know the background story of the Baasilica faction so don't know if this is the case. Additionally, we are all a bit smaller without skin and muscle and ligaments holding us up to higher proportions than our mere bones would amount to. Take the cartilage out from between your vertebrae and you'd be substantially shorter as the each disc amounts to 3-45mm as they get larger the further down the spinal column you go.
Right so Remy's paladin sculpts is about 5-10% larger than the Skeleton next to it? So when it gets done in restic, the final piece will be only slightly larger than the skellie.
I still think the werewolves look pretty bad. Their forearms are thicker than their thighs, and they have exaggerated V-shaped torsos that would even make the Hulk feel insecure in his body image. Since only 1% of humans and 0% of wolves have the ability to achieve such a warped physique, it seems like an odd choice. And like Christopher Walken, these werewolves desperately wish they had tails. I never thought my army of plastic Confrontation Wolfen would be the healthy-body-image alternative.
The Sisters also look pretty bad, unless you go for the Boxing Helena army. I guess there might be some Perry or WGF arms that will fit them, so it's not all bad.
The mummies look enough like generic undead elites that I think they work quite well. The paladins look excellent, despite or maybe because of their heroic scale.
Have we seen the finalized plastic Men at Arms yet?
judgedoug wrote: Restic process shrinks that paladin by about 5-10% though, right?
Yep, they've started to sculpt things slightly larger so that the Restic shrinks it to the right size.
Yes, they've been doing this for over a year now. They made the shrinkage mistake once with the stormrage veterans and have made sure not to repeat it.
Paladins look brilliant IMO, the nuns could be better, but they're not bad sculpts, either. Obviously no-one will be using the standard bearer arm since the sculpting on that is just plain terrible.. I don't understand how it's possible to even get forearm length wrong.. all you have to do is bend a piece of wire in half and use that as the the dolly to sculpt the arm on to make sure that the proportions are correct. Musculature is a trickier proposition, but proportions are not difficult when you're sculpting humans, there's a pretty obvious and easy to follow template in place that anyone working in a creative capacity should be more than familiar with... a fully bent forearm with a clenched fist is roughly in-line with the tip of the shoulder (well, slightly higher, but it's better to go under than over)... the sculptor seems to have followed some kind of different and completely wrong anatomical standard here whereby the entire upper arm (shoulder joint included) is shorter than the forearm alone without the hand. It's really not hard, you don't need to do life drawing, just looking at your own arm for a few minutes makes it quite easy to figure out the rough x-to-y proportions.
Again, it comes down to "sculpted by Remy" vs. "Not sculpted by Remy"... the Remy Baslieans (the angels, paladins, men at arms and lion hero) are gorgeous models. The rest, not so much. They're not bad sculpts, just average.
The Sisters also look pretty bad, unless you go for the Boxing Helena army. I guess there might be some Perry or WGF arms that will fit them, so it's not all bad.
If anyone has any good suggestions on this point let me know, I actually quite like the nuns other than the arms. The main problem would be getting hold of 2-handed flail arms that aren't overly massive, and have a command option in the same style.
Any ideas?
A bit small but then they don't need to necessarily be the same race unless the undead line has skeletal Angels as well.
This would be an insanely awesome set of miniatures to have on the table, I've loved the sheer creepiness/freakiness of that concept ever since it appeared on the simpsons.
Still not looking good. Scale creep on a massive level, and the hands are far too massive, even for a miniature of that size. Compare it to the hand size of the skeleton (yes I realise it's a skeletons hand, but even so). The arm doesn't seem to be attached properly, so I am not 100% on the length of the arms, but again they look too long.
I am really hoping for Mantic to pull something out of the bag, but with each shot coming out from different sources, it's looking more and more bleak.
Thanks for giving me the opportunity to use that emoticon!
I think with the explanation of resin shrinkage it will probably turn out right.. the problem is that a lot of the skeletons on the market (especially the GW ones), which follow the 'Ghouls 'n' ghosts' style of having massive heads and hands that are bigger than the heads of humans (which are supposed to have flesh and muscles on top!)
Also, finally (and perhaps most importantly!), am I the only person who thinks that guy looks really great? Really looking forward to seeing what the rest of those guys look like..
Well, I am willing and hoping to be proven wrong. If they do indeed shrink, that will actually be a very good thing. I am still not so chuffed about the hands, but we'll see how they go.
I am hoping Mantic has some finalised versions up for show soon. Having to judge from 3rd party photo's is becoming a real pain.
scarletsquig wrote: If anyone has any good suggestions on this point let me know, I actually quite like the nuns other than the arms. The main problem would be getting hold of 2-handed flail arms that aren't overly massive, and have a command option in the same style.
Any ideas?
You could probably find some two-handed weapons that fit them from historicals somewhere. The rules probably just have piercing to represent the flails, so it isn't an issue IMO.
The Paladins look good to me. THen again, I like fully armored figures regardless or species/gender, so I am a bit biased. I'll be getting some when they hit retail. I also think the nuns look decent. I only glanced at them, but I didn't think they seemed that out of proportion.
The paladins will have lots of different uses since you can easily make them look much different with minor conversions and paint schemes. They could easily be used as revenants with two-handed weapons.
Well...submitted my survey - swapped out a whole bunch of BOGOFs for a pair of ogre starters. That will give me a great dual purpose army (panthers from the celestial riders will be my sabertusks).
Well...submitted my survey - swapped out a whole bunch of BOGOFs for a pair of ogre starters. That will give me a great dual purpose army (panthers from the celestial riders will be my sabertusks).
So we can swap out our BOGOFs for the new army deals? Because I might as well - if I swapped my Basileans BOGOFs for the Basilean army deal I'd wind up with basically the same stuff (minus 20 sisters, plus 10 sister riders - which I don't care because they're gak) but get a free chariot, for which I might be able to find a use.
mantic on KS wrote:Hey guys - first things first, we're preparing a big update to show you as much painted stuff as possible. Then we'll have greens where possible too. We appreciate more pics are needed and we'll be getting them as soon as we can!
Also confirmed: message stew to change BOGOFs (as mentioned by decker_cky) and change your <225 pledge to >=225 and you'll still get freebies for the latter.
...Now if only they'd let me make another $225 pledge...
mantic on KS wrote:Hey guys - first things first, we're preparing a big update to show you as much painted stuff as possible. Then we'll have greens where possible too. We appreciate more pics are needed and we'll be getting them as soon as we can!
Also confirmed: message stew to change BOGOFs (as mentioned by decker_cky) and change your <225 pledge to >=225 and you'll still get freebies for the latter.
...Now if only they'd let me make another $225 pledge...
This is just plain awesome on the part of Mantic. Even a last-minute addition counts for just as much as it did in the original KS, as long as you put at least some money down .
Also, I've found a much better collection of all the kickstarter sculpts than I could manage to put together:
It's incredibly absurd Mantic doesn't have official pics and people have to collate random images from across the internet just so the KS backers who pledged 350 thousand dollars can see just what they are spending their money on. Serioiusly? Guh. I'm waiting til the last moment to add to my pledge to see if any more pics surface.
scarletsquig wrote: This is just plain awesome on the part of Mantic. Even a last-minute addition counts for just as much as it did in the original KS, as long as you put at least some money down .
Also, I've found a much better collection of all the kickstarter sculpts than I could manage to put together:
Worth a look if you want to see all of the pics in one place, including all the latest stuff from the open day.
Y'see that annoys me - if you're going to lift images from different blogs, is it really so hard to credit the people who took the images? He's using three of mine from last year's Open Day without mentioning that he didn't take any of the pictures.
Having called him on it in the comments, it'll be interesting to see whether he removes the images or edits his post - either way, it goes to show why it is important to watermark your images...
mantic on KS wrote:Hey guys - first things first, we're preparing a big update to show you as much painted stuff as possible. Then we'll have greens where possible too. We appreciate more pics are needed and we'll be getting them as soon as we can!
Also confirmed: message stew to change BOGOFs (as mentioned by decker_cky) and change your <225 pledge to >=225 and you'll still get freebies for the latter.
...Now if only they'd let me make another $225 pledge...
This is just plain awesome on the part of Mantic. Even a last-minute addition counts for just as much as it did in the original KS, as long as you put at least some money down .
Also, I've found a much better collection of all the kickstarter sculpts than I could manage to put together:
scarletsquig wrote: This is the final concept art that the sculptor followed when making the models. :p
Not trying to prove you wrong, but in my email of feedback to Stuart I did complain about the figures not matching the concept art that we based our pledges on - I showed both the final figures as painted by winterdyne and the concept art you linked, this was his reply:
Stuart Gibbs wrote:
As a very early Kickstarter, we never expected Kings of War to get anywhere near where it got to (we weren’t totally sure it would reach the $5K goal), and as such our concept art was thrown together with whatever we had at the time – we didn’t have time to discuss the look of all the models and get finalised art put together while the Kickstarter was running. Around half of the units in the KoW Kickstarter didn’t even have any art. As such, some of those concepts evolved over time, and that Troll concept was not the one actually used for the models in the end – it was one of three or four that have been shown at various points in time. However, this was drastically different by the time we did DreadBall, and all of the DreadBall models are much closer to the concepts.
I don't think that the explanation will do much (anything?) to curb the KoW backlash that's started - nor will it help their current reputation for uneven sculpt quality when this stuff (cathorse! long-armed ladies!) hits retail, but hopefully the forthcoming waves of their figures will be better matches to the concept art when applicable, and simply manage to be not-awful sculpts for others.
I sure hope those plastic Celestians turn out well...
I emailed Stew, as soon as we got the notification, from both my pledge emails (pledged from two different accounts) asking what I had ordered. Still no response.
judgedoug wrote: I emailed Stew, as soon as we got the notification, from both my pledge emails (pledged from two different accounts) asking what I had ordered. Still no response.
I'd send another email. He should have gotten back by now.
I emailed him as well, 4 days ago. Should I send another email as well? I figured 5 days was probably the limit, but if other people are having trouble getting responses too...
Not trying to prove you wrong, but in my email of feedback to Stuart I did complain about the figures not matching the concept art that we based our pledges on - I showed both the final figures as painted by winterdyne and the concept art you linked, this was his reply:
When you say concept art, you don't mean the johhny bravo pic?
And you do mean the actual concept art of the troll I posted?
I know I'm late to the party, but those trolls... Ugh!
I'm something of a connoisseur for trolls... and a sucker for them.
-I once owned 36 GW river trolls... excellent models, but even excellent, modular models become wearisome after you have too many -I sold these and put the funds into picking up the entire PP Trollbloods faction!
Personally, I think some of PP's recent work has been hit and miss regarding trolls, too (I Really dislike the new restic Bouncer... the old metal version is so much better!).
But while I wouldn't put Mantic's trolls as far down my list as the GW Hobbit trolls... they're only one step above, still right down at the bottom of the list...
Not trying to prove you wrong, but in my email of feedback to Stuart I did complain about the figures not matching the concept art that we based our pledges on - I showed both the final figures as painted by winterdyne and the concept art you linked, this was his reply:
And you do mean the actual concept art of the troll I posted?
The exact one you posted. Armoured version of the troll art from the KS. Cut and pasted from your post into my email to him, along with the pic of the completed models that they just emailed out again in the KS update.
But while I wouldn't put Mantic's trolls as far down my list as the GW Hobbit trolls... they're only one step above, still right down at the bottom of the list...
They're worse. The Hobbit ones are based on the WETA design (not GW's fault) and they look like their legs could possible support their bodies.
RiTides wrote: I know I'm late to the party, but those trolls... Ugh!
I'm something of a connoisseur for trolls... and a sucker for them.
-I once owned 36 GW river trolls... excellent models, but even excellent, modular models become wearisome after you have too many -I sold these and put the funds into picking up the entire PP Trollbloods faction!
Personally, I think some of PP's recent work has been hit and miss regarding trolls, too (I Really dislike the new restic Bouncer... the old metal version is so much better!).
But while I wouldn't put Mantic's trolls as far down my list as the GW Hobbit trolls... they're only one step above, still right down at the bottom of the list...
Really? I like the trolls. I can see a quick fix too, if they aren't trollie enough: free stuff long, sideways ears and a long nose. They'll look correct. And troll sometimes have balance issues in fantasy novels due to incorrect limb proportions, so I'm not bothered by the limb "issues". I do feel for you guys that don't like them though, but I really do.
scarletsquig wrote: This is the final concept art that the sculptor followed when making the models. :p
Not trying to prove you wrong, but in my email of feedback to Stuart I did complain about the figures not matching the concept art that we based our pledges on - I showed both the final figures as painted by winterdyne and the concept art you linked, this was his reply:
Stuart Gibbs wrote:
As a very early Kickstarter, we never expected Kings of War to get anywhere near where it got to (we weren’t totally sure it would reach the $5K goal), and as such our concept art was thrown together with whatever we had at the time – we didn’t have time to discuss the look of all the models and get finalised art put together while the Kickstarter was running. Around half of the units in the KoW Kickstarter didn’t even have any art. As such, some of those concepts evolved over time, and that Troll concept was not the one actually used for the models in the end – it was one of three or four that have been shown at various points in time. However, this was drastically different by the time we did DreadBall, and all of the DreadBall models are much closer to the concepts.
I don't think that the explanation will do much (anything?) to curb the KoW backlash that's started - nor will it help their current reputation for uneven sculpt quality when this stuff (cathorse! long-armed ladies!) hits retail, but hopefully the forthcoming waves of their figures will be better matches to the concept art when applicable, and simply manage to be not-awful sculpts for others.
I sure hope those plastic Celestians turn out well...
So, his explanation is that he sold us on a concept that may or may not have ever been intended to go into production, but he definitely felt comfortable ditching it without notice once he already had our money? Wow.
That explanation actually makes Mantic sound like an even bigger joke of a company than the sculpts. "The purpose of kickstarter was to show you whatever pictures would make you open your wallets so that we could have enough money to go and make something else."
Ah, and in answer to my own question from a few posts above, just got this email about the new KoW stuff:
The Summer of Kings of War is coming!
Reinforcements are on the horizon for Kings of War and when this vast horde arrives surely the world will tremble!
Last year we put Kings of War on Kickstarter and asked people to help us add more units to each of the main armies, such as Werewolves and Trolls!
From June we will be having three months of major Kings of War releases: Undead and Orcs, the Human Basilean Kingdom and the Ogre army (with some Goblin additions too!)
The Summer of Kings of War is coming and we hope you’ll join us - watch out for model previews coming out next week on Facebook and the Blog!
So, his explanation is that he sold us on a concept that may or may not have ever been intended to go into production, but he definitely felt comfortable ditching it without notice once he already had our money? Wow.
That explanation actually makes Mantic sound like an even bigger joke of a company than the sculpts. "The purpose of kickstarter was to show you whatever pictures would make you open your wallets so that we could have enough money to go and make something else."
I see your point entirely, and don't really disagree either. It seems from his reply that they're at least learning, so hopefully some hope for the future. I'm pretty sure that between my wife and I we were down for 24 trolls (forces of Mordor, ahoy!) based on that excellent concept art - as opposed to the gak models that they've produced. So you'll understand that I'm pretty pissed off with the whole thing as well. Yeah, that troll army of Mordor got cancelled forever.
Huh. Lots of KoW backers are dissatisfied with the trolls. I dig 'em. A nice combination of goofy and menacing. I posted it in the Swap Shop, but I'll repeat it here. I don't need anything that doesn't go in an Orc or Undead army, so if you don't want your trolls let's trade.
I quite liked the trolls. They were fun to paint, and *different*. I think that's the key thing to bear in mind - these aren't D&D trolls, or GW trolls, or even LotR trolls. They're KoW Trolls. They're over-bodied, short legged masses of upper body strength with rusty metal rivetted to them. And they like shouting at rocks.
Edit: They were also pretty easy to clean up, and with minimal filler work on joins. You could quite easily build a unit of 6 quite distinct trolls I think. I was provided with 4 heads, 3 weapon fits and 2 body variants for the three.
It's entirely fine that you like the trolls. I've got absolutely no issue with people liking them. Personal aesthetic choices, etc etc.
My issue is they showed one thing which was the basis that people pledged on, and then delivered something entirely different. I might take you (or someone else) up on some trades once they're in hand.
That's the issue alright, and I hope it's something Mantic have learned from. I am glad I didn't go in on this kickstarter, from what's been shown so far.
Mantic posted wrote:Hi everyone! Pictures of everything are on their way - we're just getting the last bits back from Golem and getting some pics taken. We'll get as much as we can up in the updates over the coming week, and if we can't fit it all in we'll extend the survey deadline to allow you to get a look at everything :-).
Cat Cavalry - this decision was made for a range of reasons. They better fitted the lighter fighting style that was written into the background for the sisterhood and they allowed for more flexibility in the range (a standard size means that mounts and riders of various creatures can be swapped around), amongst other things.
Metal Crossbowmen - The decision on what material is used for a sculpt depends on the volumes that we are able to sell. It is simply not economical for use to produce these figures in anything but metal at the moment, but the bigger Kings of War gets, the fewer hybrid kits we'll have to sell :-).
Changing concepts - thank you for your comments everyone. This is something that has been difficult for us in the past with the timescales involved, but as we've grown over the past year we should have a little more flexibility. Going forward we will do our best to give our backers as much input as possible into the figures that are produced through the Kickstarter. Hopefully those of you who have followed our subsequent Kickstarters have seen how much feedback we take on board and take action with :-).
@Daniel Clark - I can assure that this is not even slightly true. Every penny taken through this Kickstarter was spent on Kings of War. In fact, funding the units created from the Kings of War Kickstarter actually cost us more than the $354,997 raised, so we've put our own funds into this on top of the backers' support. The money raised from this Kickstarter was NOT spent on anything else, and the same goes for any project that we put up on here. Each project is independent of the others, and we do not allow any single one of them to negatively impact the others.
Anyway, back on topic - proper pictures are on their way very soon, and I'm sure you'll all be very happy with what we've got to show you. Keep your eye on the updates over the coming week!
So their response is "Sure, we completely changed how some of the sculpts turned out compared to the initial artwork, but you'll see in our other kickstarters just how much feedback we now take! Unfortunately for you, you get what we've done and that's pretty much it."
It's got a ring of a non-apology apology to it. Still not impressed. I am thinking more and more if they weren't so sidetracked with Dreadball and Deadzone this Kickstarter would have had a lot better miniatures to show for it, and a lot happier customers.
I love how they were so anxious to open their Deadzone KS that they couldn't wait a month until after their KoW pledge manager closed, forcing Mantic Fanatics to choose between projects, cannibalizing their sales, and scaring away potential DZ backers by pissing off KoW backers at just the right time. Bravo.
Maybe next time Mantic will take a few minutes to think things out. Turns out "time on target" is not the best method for blasting money out of people's wallets.
I'm surprised no-one mentioned the metal command pieces (for all of the basileans and a bunch of other units) and their non-inclusion in the KS boxes.
I'd have thought that would have been a more relevant point to raise than complaining about the crossbowmen, which weren't part of the KoWKS at all.
I don't care about the material (hybrid restic is a bit pants, but I can deal if it's just 1-2 models), but it would have been nice to have them included, for both the retail and KS releases rather than being bitz packs.
Oh, and hopefully Topps are paying them cash to make the Mars Attacks thing happen, I think a Mars Attacks KS would be a bit of a stretch at this point. Of course, they'll need to sculpt and tool that range alongside the remaining KoW stuff, Dreadball season 3, all of Deadzone. I'm amazed they get any sleep.
It's not that much of a big a deal to me, I assume they simply ran out of cash/time to fund restic tools for the command bits and technically speaking, the original description on the KS page did not specify that command pieces were included (I checked), so there's not any dishonesty going on there.
They did go out of their way to make the men-at-arms hard plastic, so I'm happy to cut them a little slack there.
I'm going to have to remember to ask questions like these during the KS campaign itself in future, though... the devil is in the details!
scarletsquig wrote: I'm surprised no-one mentioned the metal command pieces (for all of the basileans and a bunch of other units) and their non-inclusion in the KS boxes.
I'd have thought that would have been a more relevant point to raise than complaining about the crossbowmen, which weren't part of the KoWKS at all.
I think it's more reasonable to complain about something that was included in the KS rather than something that wasn't. I realize that KS show preliminary work that may change etc but the concept art should be the primary guiding factor for what the end model looks like. If people were shown a piece of concept art, they should stick with that as close as possible barring something out of their control (like offering free rare earth magnets with a conversion kit and then having rare earth magnet prices increase 500% in the coming months) rather than something totally in their control (like accepting a sculpt that didn't jibe with the art. I'd put complaining about something that was never mentioned ever in the KS as firmly in the unreasonable complaint camp. Would it be nice to have them? Sure. Would I expect it? No... but I would expect them to stick as closely as possible to what they did show in the KS and not just have an artistic "inspiration" and change the models on a later whim.
scarletsquig wrote: It's not that much of a big a deal to me, I assume they simply ran out of cash/time to fund restic tools for the command bits and technically speaking, the original description on the KS page did not specify that command pieces were included (I checked), so there's not any dishonesty going on there.
I'm going to have to remember to ask questions like these during the KS campaign itself in future, though... the devil is in the details!
I'm plenty annoyed by it. And we shouldn't have to ask questions like these during the KS itself. Kits coming with command options are pretty damn standard. It'd be like having to ask if we're getting bases with all the models we pledge for.
command bits = space on a tool. They'd have needed more money.
Not trying to prove you wrong, but in my email of feedback to Stuart I did complain about the figures not matching the concept art that we based our pledges on - I showed both the final figures as painted by winterdyne and the concept art you linked, this was his reply:
Black Nexus wrote: command bits = space on a tool. They'd have needed more money.
Not trying to prove you wrong, but in my email of feedback to Stuart I did complain about the figures not matching the concept art that we based our pledges on - I showed both the final figures as painted by winterdyne and the concept art you linked, this was his reply:
and what concept art was that??
For KoW there were multiple instances where the art didn't make it to the final model, the most egregious being the cat cavalry who were supposed to be amazons riding monstrous creatures and wound up being chicks on house cats. Another is Wildcard in the last kickstarter...etc.
There was no concept art for cat cavalry (until it was art for the final models), and they were never supposed to be amazons riding the cats - it was always nuns of some kind. You did get the monstrous part right at least.
decker_cky wrote: There was no concept art for cat cavalry (until it was art for the final models), and they were never supposed to be amazons riding the cats - it was always nuns of some kind. You did get the monstrous part right at least.
Obviously sarcasm is lost on some people. amazon, nun, they're both women, one of them is just more militant than the other. The trolls were definitely unlike their concept but by the time they had shown them, the prototypes had already been sent off to be tooled. I'm indifferent to all of it because I'm happy with what I actually plan to keep which are the ogres, I'll trade the rest off.
Fenriswulf wrote: I am thinking more and more if they weren't so sidetracked with Dreadball and Deadzone this Kickstarter would have had a lot better miniatures to show for it, and a lot happier customers.
That one is clearly a no-brainer.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I love how they were so anxious to open their Deadzone KS that they couldn't wait a month until after their KoW pledge manager closed, forcing Mantic Fanatics to choose between projects, cannibalizing their sales, and scaring away potential DZ backers by pissing off KoW backers at just the right time. Bravo.
My guess is that it's got something to do with production windows, etc. Still, you're 100% correct from the perspective of us customers. In fact, obvious point is obvious (but not to Mantic???)
scarletsquig wrote: I'm surprised no-one mentioned the metal command pieces (for all of the basileans and a bunch of other units) and their non-inclusion in the KS boxes.
I'd have thought that would have been a more relevant point to raise than complaining about the crossbowmen, which weren't part of the KoWKS at all.
I don't care about the material (hybrid restic is a bit pants, but I can deal if it's just 1-2 models), but it would have been nice to have them included, for both the retail and KS releases rather than being bitz packs.
People did mention it. I've certainly read about it here, and I agree that they should be included - and restic as well - didn't they learn from the Goblins or Enforcers?
Oh, and hopefully Topps are paying them cash to make the Mars Attacks thing happen, I think a Mars Attacks KS would be a bit of a stretch at this point. Of course, they'll need to sculpt and tool that range alongside the remaining KoW stuff, Dreadball season 3, all of Deadzone. I'm amazed they get any sleep.
Product Licencing. I'm not sure you know how that works? They're paying Topps for a licence. Topps aren't going to be paying Mantic. My concern here, (aside from having no personal interest at all in MA,) is if they put their best foot forward for the MA licence and pull Remy off other projects and put him to work on MA. You know, so they can show off their highest-quality work to Topps and future licencors.
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Black Nexus wrote: command bits = space on a tool. They'd have needed more money.
Not trying to prove you wrong, but in my email of feedback to Stuart I did complain about the figures not matching the concept art that we based our pledges on - I showed both the final figures as painted by winterdyne and the concept art you linked, this was his reply:
Product Licencing. I'm not sure you know how that works
Math is hard, I'd rather go shopping.
Agree that they definitely have enough on their plate already, though... doesn't look like we'll get Warpath until 2015 at this rate, what with KoW/Dreadball/Deadzone/the next DKH/Loka/ Mars Attacks all scheduled to happen before it.
Unbelievable badly sculpted trolls everything looks just amateurish. I guess that probably time pressures had some influence on this? I personally don't mind waiting for good models rather than see this rushed stuff produced.
As for prices these could be free and I would still not want them on my collection.
Honestly this campaign is probably the biggest disappointment I've had with Kickstarter to date.
Almost everything so far has just been a big letdown, The plastic goblins i received during the first wave were just terrible quality miniatures with almost no detail. And out of all the 'BOGOF' miniatures shown so far im struggling to like more than 30% of them. I spent a grand total of $345 on the campaign, and at this point im worried that I've thrown a good chunk of that directly down the drain...
Granted, I just kept it simple and dropped for an undead army, but the trap on thier end is throwing in all of the excessive streach "Goals". I think they shot themselves in the foot on this one.
I mean that it might have to be said that Mantic is seeming to give themselves the rep that they are maybe promising a little TOO MUCH that they can't deliver. Then to go so far off of the concept art that was practicly the only thing they had at the time? I thought that they made a post at one point fawning over the old art and actually had a sculpt in there at one time. Then to see the end product, so far off the mark... It's a little underwhelming.
I can see that some might like those trolls, but honestly- they were not what was shown in the beginning.
If my zombie werewolves end up in the same state, I might have to rethink pledging for future Mantic Projects.
I've already re-thought it... piggy-backed onto someone's Dreadball pledge but that's it for me. Their stuff needs to be sculpted First, not shown off as art, given their track record of matching art with sculpts.
I realize that things can be conceptualized and sold while other things are sculpted and even others are going through their Chinese prison labor production runs but it seems like mantic may be overdoing it with the massive kickstarter every 4 months schedule. I'd personally prefer if they didn't have more than 2 things on their "to do" plate at any one time. At this point, they've got that chess set, KOW, dreadball (don't recall if they've had a second season), and deadzone... and the tone in most of their threads seems a lot less optimistic than just a year ago.
Mr Gutsy wrote: Honestly this campaign is probably the biggest disappointment I've had with Kickstarter to date.
Almost everything so far has just been a big letdown, The plastic goblins i received during the first wave were just terrible quality miniatures with almost no detail. And out of all the 'BOGOF' miniatures shown so far im struggling to like more than 30% of them. I spent a grand total of $345 on the campaign, and at this point im worried that I've thrown a good chunk of that directly down the drain...
The Dreadball KS is ending up exactly the same way. Terrible quality casting. Poor mold design. Questionable translation of concept art. Deceptive promises on 'fixing' greens which are clearly flawed with "it looks better in person" or "model is not 100% done". Total lack of experienced sculptors to handle the bandwidth of models promised. Zero art direction or QC.
Mantic seems very deceptive and is clearly just doing things as cheaply as possible. They are exploiting kickstarter because they can trick people into backing models unseen, and 'they already have our money'. If they let people cancel pledges or get refunds due to unsatisfactory products, I bet the company would implode at this stage. The only reason they can keep this up is because they already have our money and we can't get it back.
Mr Gutsy wrote: Honestly this campaign is probably the biggest disappointment I've had with Kickstarter to date.
Almost everything so far has just been a big letdown, The plastic goblins i received during the first wave were just terrible quality miniatures with almost no detail. And out of all the 'BOGOF' miniatures shown so far im struggling to like more than 30% of them. I spent a grand total of $345 on the campaign, and at this point im worried that I've thrown a good chunk of that directly down the drain...
The Dreadball KS is ending up exactly the same way. Terrible quality casting. Poor mold design. Questionable translation of concept art. Deceptive promises on 'fixing' greens which are clearly flawed with "it looks better in person" or "model is not 100% done". Total lack of experienced sculptors to handle the bandwidth of models promised. Zero art direction or QC.
Mantic seems very deceptive and is clearly just doing things as cheaply as possible. They are exploiting kickstarter because they can trick people into backing models unseen, and 'they already have our money'. If they let people cancel pledges or get refunds due to unsatisfactory products, I bet the company would implode at this stage. The only reason they can keep this up is because they already have our money and we can't get it back.
OK nkelsch you've been going on about this for a while now. Understandably as course, the miniatures you received are quite clearly below the standards you should expect. I have several teams on order for season 2; if they turn up in the same condition as you, they will be heading straight back to Mantic for a replacement. Of course I think you need to be doing exactly the same!
I have to be honest I've bought a fair number of models from Mantic, from across the range (Orx, Forge Fathers, dreadball etc.) I've never seen anything that bad, which makes me think it is possibly the exception rather than the rule. One problem I had was with the goblin archers, which were absolutely appalling - I've found at since that Mantic used a Chinese caster for the first and only time with them, and the results tell you why. The fact that I had only paid £10 for a box of about 50 of them in a sale (and couldn't be arsed) was the only reason they didn't get returned. In my mind that is the one obviously negative action that Mantic have carried out so far - those models should quite obviously have been removed from sale.
Otherwise though I'm afraid I don't see that much merit in your criticism, but more to do with the methods of Kickstarter itself, and the nature of the beast in that you are giving money to something blind. With the KS that Mantic have run so far you are getting a ridiculous amount of miniatures for the money pledged - but part of that presumably involves a risk on the behalf of the buyer. Before pledging on the new Deadzone KS I've taken a good look at Mantic's back catalogue and the models I own, and worked out what might be considered a reasonable amount to pledge from there. Really some of the onus has to be on the purchaser, as it's going to be impossible to please all of the pledges all of the time when the KS is carried out in this fashion. The problem is, when you have already stated that you dislike the look of Mantic's orx and other lines, isn't that always going to be taking a risk to hope that they will change style to suit what you yourself prefer?
I do think that Mantic are still a very young (and small!) company, that despite some experienced people is still finding its way somewhat. This new range of Dreadball, and the new Deadzone, I think are definite steps in the right direction. A lot of the KoW stuff for that matter looks pretty cool, and I wonder sometimes at what people actually thought they were going to get with this, especially considering how subjective the whole thing is? I wouldn't sink them just yet as a bunch of diabolical charlatans out to take our money, as you are implying, in any case.
Mr Gutsy wrote: Honestly this campaign is probably the biggest disappointment I've had with Kickstarter to date.
Almost everything so far has just been a big letdown, The plastic goblins i received during the first wave were just terrible quality miniatures with almost no detail. And out of all the 'BOGOF' miniatures shown so far im struggling to like more than 30% of them. I spent a grand total of $345 on the campaign, and at this point im worried that I've thrown a good chunk of that directly down the drain...
The Dreadball KS is ending up exactly the same way. Terrible quality casting. Poor mold design. Questionable translation of concept art. Deceptive promises on 'fixing' greens which are clearly flawed with "it looks better in person" or "model is not 100% done". Total lack of experienced sculptors to handle the bandwidth of models promised. Zero art direction or QC.
Mantic seems very deceptive and is clearly just doing things as cheaply as possible. They are exploiting kickstarter because they can trick people into backing models unseen, and 'they already have our money'. If they let people cancel pledges or get refunds due to unsatisfactory products, I bet the company would implode at this stage. The only reason they can keep this up is because they already have our money and we can't get it back.
OK nkelsch you've been going on about this for a while now. Understandably as course, the miniatures you received are quite clearly below the standards you should expect. I have several teams on order for season 2; if they turn up in the same condition as you, they will be heading straight back to Mantic for a replacement. Of course I think you need to be doing exactly the same!
I have to be honest I've bought a fair number of models from Mantic, from across the range (Orx, Forge Fathers, dreadball etc.) I've never seen anything that bad, which makes me think it is possibly the exception rather than the rule. One problem I had was with the goblin archers, which were absolutely appalling - I've found at since that Mantic used a Chinese caster for the first and only time with them, and the results tell you why. The fact that I had only paid £10 for a box of about 50 of them in a sale (and couldn't be arsed) was the only reason they didn't get returned. In my mind that is the one obviously negative action that Mantic have carried out so far - those models should quite obviously have been removed from sale.
Otherwise though I'm afraid I don't see that much merit in your criticism, but more to do with the methods of Kickstarter itself, and the nature of the beast in that you are giving money to something blind. With the KS that Mantic have run so far you are getting a ridiculous amount of miniatures for the money pledged - but part of that presumably involves a risk on the behalf of the buyer. Before pledging on the new Deadzone KS I've taken a good look at Mantic's back catalogue and the models I own, and worked out what might be considered a reasonable amount to pledge from there. Really some of the onus has to be on the purchaser, as it's going to be impossible to please all of the pledges all of the time when the KS is carried out in this fashion. The problem is, when you have already stated that you dislike the look of Mantic's orx and other lines, isn't that always going to be taking a risk to hope that they will change style to suit what you yourself prefer?
I do think that Mantic are still a very young (and small!) company, that despite some experienced people is still finding its way somewhat. This new range of Dreadball, and the new Deadzone, I think are definite steps in the right direction. A lot of the KoW stuff for that matter looks pretty cool, and I wonder sometimes at what people actually thought they were going to get with this, especially considering how subjective the whole thing is? I wouldn't sink them just yet as a bunch of diabolical charlatans out to take our money, as you are implying, in any case.
Shenanigans... Getting a replacement can't move the mold lines to a different part of the model or remove the injection points. Unlike horrible finecast where you can actually cast enough times and get a flawless model, their molds are impossible to produce a satisfactory model from the molds as currently tooled. Those peoblems are with QC, not the mold or model design. These are flaws with the mold themselves. Getting replacements cannot fix the problems with these models due to the design of the molds. The only acceptable answer is a complete refund or new models in a totally different material with new molds.
I also declare shenanigans on the idea that Mantic gets to skirt by on the 'buyer beware' kickstarter model that we should expect to be deceived, screwed and get inferior products due to the sheer number of models. Other KSs are fulfilling their requirements without producing shoddy , poorly sculpted trash and without lying to us about sculpts and when they make poor models, execute a campaign to avoid showing us WIPs with lame excuses about 'not enough time to take photos' because they are so busy sending them to get cast before even checking if the models are good enough for purchase.
They are making garbage and being deceptive in every step of the way. They are not improving, ignoring feedback and are speeding up thier KS model to take in even more money faster and faster before their failed deliveries catch up with them.
Deviating so far from the concept on the Trolls is pretty hard to forgive. I don't think the excuses really hold water.
The other stuff is not so bad in my view, some of the sculpts are less than perfect but then the price is very low so I would tolerate that. They at least look pretty much as I'd expect based on the concepts. The trolls are very different and extremely stylised.
Shenanigans... Getting a replacement can't move the mold lines to a different part of the model or remove the injection points. Unlike horrible finecast where you can actually cast enough times and get a flawless model, their molds are impossible to produce a satisfactory model from the molds as currently tooled. Those peoblems are with QC, not the mold or model design. These are flaws with the mold themselves. Getting replacements cannot fix the problems with these models due to the design of the molds. The only acceptable answer is a complete refund or new models in a totally different material with new molds.
I also declare shenanigans on the idea that Mantic gets to skirt by on the 'buyer beware' kickstarter model that we should expect to be deceived, screwed and get inferior products due to the sheer number of models. Other KSs are fulfilling their requirements without producing shoddy , poorly sculpted trash and without lying to us about sculpts and when they make poor models, execute a campaign to avoid showing us WIPs with lame excuses about 'not enough time to take photos' because they are so busy sending them to get cast before even checking if the models are good enough for purchase.
They are making garbage and being deceptive in every step of the way. They are not improving, ignoring feedback and are speeding up thier KS model to take in even more money faster and faster before their failed deliveries catch up with them.
You better reign in yourself. Some of the stuff you are claiming would call for legal action, but if it is not founded on facts it also can be seen as a valid reason for legal action.
I doubt Mantic will react in such a way to such drivel, but other companies are not that nice. Do yourself a favor and abstain from such writing in the future.
There are some minis right now that are not great, but there are also a lot that look quite nice. That was to be expected at that price. And since you mention other KS. Sedition Wars did an excellent job on their minis, but even they get bashed by your likes. The nuns e.g. are a reason to complain and you should be ver vocal about it. BUT, what you are writing is completly out of focus ...
Deviating so far from the concept on the Trolls is pretty hard to forgive.
There were two concepts, the one with armor, the other with less armor. The majority of the pledgers wanted the one with less armor. So posting the first design and then complaining they are not up to it is a little bit unfair. If anything you should compare them to the second and final design, which the minis resemble quite a lot.
You better reign in yourself. Some of the stuff you are claiming would call for legal action, but if it is not founded on facts it also can be seen as a valid reason for legal action.
I doubt Mantic will react in such a way to such drivel, but other companies are not that nice. Do yourself a favor and abstain from such writing in the future.
There are some minis right now that are not great, but there are also a lot that look quite nice. That was to be expected at that price. And since you mention other KS. Sedition Wars did an excellent job on their minis, but even they get bashed by your likes. The nuns e.g. are a reason to complain and you should be ver vocal about it. BUT, what you are writing is completly out of focus ...
Do yourself a favor and carry Mantic's water elsewhere.
Everything I have said has been based off of physical evidence (which I have provided photos which clearly show the mold line issues which points directly to the design of the molds) or Mantic's own statements where they either failed to address the legitimate concerns or flat out made false statements, especially about the WIP sculpts. And I can review the quality of the product provided to me as I see fit. No one can refute the statements of mantic or the issues going on with casting and sculpting. They just make excuses why we should be accepting of it like you did. No one is making false statements.
Other companies make cheap minis without having casting issues or poorly sculpted models, And can match the concept art... Some would call not matching concept art bait and switch... or at least feel disappointed if not officially decieved.
I think that Nkelsch is overly aggressive in his comments, but he's got a solid point.
The agreement between a supporter and Mantic regarding the kickstarter will no doubt be met. Nobody signed a contract for a specific model at a specific time. Everything they do is legal.
That said, it's harder and harder for me to support Mantic when I see some of the stuff they do. Even if not malicious, it's mind boggling. I'm worried that they are going to go further and further down the "hey, it's cheap, what do you expect" route. Not getting pictures out was just bizarre.
I like Mantic, I like the elves, I like the trolls, and I'm excited about the possibllities. Alas, it's been a series of misfires lately.
Actually Dreadball minis look al fine in person, can´t understand the ranting there. It should be clear to anyone that unprimed grey plastic looks not as good when prhotographed. And such photos seem to be the basis for most critics.
Duncan_Idaho wrote: Actually Dreadball minis look al fine in person, can´t understand the ranting there. It should be clear to anyone that unprimed grey plastic looks not as good when prhotographed. And such photos seem to be the basis for most critics.
So my eyes are not seeing the mold lines across the faces of models and the twiist off injection points which are on the side of the face of the Zzor and amage the eye of the model?
Injection points on the shoulder which have damaged the armor. Injection points on the side of the Zzor heads which damage the face, They could have been put in other locations. Horrible flash and mold lines.
Injection points on the shoulder pads not the pegs, there is one on the toe of the foot. Modl lines which are almost uncleanable on the face. I have been cleaning models for 20+ years and no filing or exacto knifing is going to get that off the face of the model without causing damage which will either have to be hidden with paint or resculpted with GS.
But some people like yourself assume I am photoshopping these, and that these don't point to simply poor mold design or an issue with the material, or how the machines were being 'rushed' by casting and releasing too quickly. Oh and these are supposedly very few, even though others have taken pictures of entire teams this bad or worse. Apparently if I don't photograph every model I have ever received, it is easy to dismiss all fo this as falsehoods. My entire Mantic range from Dreadball is in this state and these models cannot be cleaned without harming detail due to the design of the molds and location of the injection points and mold lines.
I am not disliking the style of these models. This is pure mechanical failures documented with photographs which shows a casting/mold company not aware of what it takes to make miniatures and it should give Mantic real pause to not simply go with the cheapest company in china, but maybe investigate using a company which is experienced in miniature casting. This is legitimate feedback which Mantic seems to dodge when questioned.
I will say, Wildcard still looks bad in person. Buzzcut's pose is still absurd. Number 88 Still has no added detail on the gauntlet as promised and the Judiwan falling on his ass was not changed as promised. If Mantic would have said: "These are final shots, sorry if you don't like them" I would have respected it more than "These are WIP and we will fix the issues" and then proceed to never show WIPs again and complain how there is no time to take photos of WIPs or compelted molds before machining (even though every sculptor/painter takes photos they don't release until allowed so Mantic could provide us photos if they wanted.)
Mantic seem to have rushed into too many Kickstarters at once, over committing and failing to deliver a satisfactory product to at least a noticeable portion of their fanbase. That's poor going, and I hope they learn from it, as I like Mantic,mespecially their approach to rules design and their Undead plastics, the new Enforcers are lovely too.
I do have a lot if Dreadball Minis and no problems. Sure there were some gamers that got bad minis, but that can always happen and you should be able to get damaged minis replaced. The prominent mold-lines are quite easy to clean up don´t know hat your problem is with them.
The problem with the mold peg is: The mold consists of two halves and the peg can´t be placed on the side but has to be placed on the top. From your pictures I can see that someone tore the parts from the sprue instead of clipping it and because of this damaged that part. Ask for replacement would be my suggestion.
The Dreadball KS is ending up exactly the same way. Terrible quality casting. Poor mold design. Questionable translation of concept art.
Seriously. My Dreadball models had no mold lines, looked excellent, and was a tremendous deal. What a bunch of fethers
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nkelsch wrote: Everything I have said has been based off of physical evidence (which I have provided photos which clearly show the mold line issues which points directly to the design of the molds) or Mantic's own statements where they either failed to address the legitimate concerns or flat out made false statements, especially about the WIP sculpts. And I can review the quality of the product provided to me as I see fit. No one can refute the statements of mantic or the issues going on with casting and sculpting. They just make excuses why we should be accepting of it like you did. No one is making false statements.
Other companies make cheap minis without having casting issues or poorly sculpted models, And can match the concept art... Some would call not matching concept art bait and switch... or at least feel disappointed if not officially decieved.
You've become self-parody at this point. You are the loudest complainer despite the fact you can exchange any problem models, yet you haven't done so. Your constant bleating has left the realm of valid criticism and become a wall of noise.
Those paladins are pretty nice- are they plastic or restic?
The Sisters look nicer ranked up, they definitely have "heroic" proportions but there are very few fantasy females on the market so I imagine they'll sell well enough. The faces aren't too bad, I suppose, but the upper bodies are a little too beefy compared to the lower halves.
I do like the sculpts of the paladins. Are these gw-style plastic kits (that plastic glue works on) or restic? As for the sisters, they're ok. I'm not a huge fan as they remind me of more clothed Empire Flagellants... maybe it's just that one of the bottom left that bugs me too much... she reminds me of the type of over botox-ed and collagen injected middle aged rich housewife you see on US reality tv. The ones in hoods look a lot better IMO.
Yikes the sisters are ugly... Nasty proportions and nothing feminine about them. I will pass. It's quite clear what they are aiming for and I'm totally not the target.
I've figured out what was bothering me about their boobs.
If you look *very* closely, you can see that they're sculpted to have exposed cleavage, you can see the cloth line going over them where the cleavage line stops.
It's just that the painter hasn't painted that part to look like skin and painted it blue instead.
Probably a smart move on the part of the painter, but it doesn't change the fact that they've got their tits out despite every other inch of their body being swathed in robes. :p
It does bode well for me converting a Daenarys model out of one of them though...
scarletsquig wrote: I've figured out what was bothering me about their boobs.
If you look *very* closely, you can see that they're sculpted to have exposed cleavage, you can see the cloth line going over them where the cleavage line stops.
It's just that the painter hasn't painted that part to look like skin and painted it blue instead.
Probably a smart move on the part of the painter, but it doesn't change the fact that they've got their tits out despite every other inch of their body being swathed in robes. :p
Pretty sure you're wrong. That line is just the fabric pulled tight along their ample bosoms. Pretty sure the painting is accurate to how they're painted.
Perhaps the fluff for these ladies has something about them being stretched on a rack or similar device as a test of faith?
Might explain the giraffe necks, too.
These should teach people not to buy Mantic models based on art work alone. There are so many things wrong with those that the only explanation I can give is that the sculptor's skills were severely lacking. Meaning Mantic took people's money and hired a sub-par guy to realize decent concepts. That's Mantic for you!
This is another case of Mantic being cheap and not giving a hoot about the quality of what they put out, both sculpt- and casting-wise (see Dreadball restic models) despite the prices of their models rapidly rising (see Deadzone). What else is new?
Like the trolls or the pussy cavalry or the command-free human troopers? OK. Now tell that to people that bought into the KS in hopes of getting those or decent nuns with flails. I'm sure they'll be happy to talk to you about those 80%.
scarletsquig wrote: Feel free to completely ignore the 80% of sculpts which did turn out very nicely with no complaints about them at all.
80%?
Just last page there was a poster who pledged big saying they were struggling to like 30% of them... I think saying 4 out of every 5 sculpts Mantic has produced for this kickstarter have turned out "very nicely with no complaints about them at all" is very far from the reality of it...
scarletsquig wrote: Feel free to completely ignore the 80% of sculpts which did turn out very nicely with no complaints about them at all.
80%?
Just last page there was a poster who pledged big saying they were struggling to like 30% of them... I think saying 4 out of every 5 sculpts Mantic has produced for this kickstarter have turned out "very nicely with no complaints about them at all" is very far from the reality of it...
to be fair, given that we haven't seen pics of most of them, we haven't had a chance to complain!
-DE- wrote: Like the trolls or the pussy cavalry or the command-free human troopers? OK. Now tell that to people that bought into the KS in hopes of getting those or decent nuns with flails. I'm sure they'll be happy to talk to you about those 80%.
The KS never offered a human command/command upgrade, mantic put that together afterwards
now it would have been nice if they gave it to backers (or used plastic rather than metal to make it),
but it shouldn't be something KS backers are complaining about... it wasn't part of the KS
(and it makes the more valid complaints about the quality of some sculpts, or the lack of adherence to concept art easier to ignore)
scarletsquig wrote: Feel free to completely ignore the 80% of sculpts which did turn out very nicely with no complaints about them at all.
80%?
Just last page there was a poster who pledged big saying they were struggling to like 30% of them... I think saying 4 out of every 5 sculpts Mantic has produced for this kickstarter have turned out "very nicely with no complaints about them at all" is very far from the reality of it...
I hear that!
I was starting to feel bad about how many times I've emailed Mantic to change my pledge, but then I thought about it a bit, and didn't feel bad at all...
gah, super stretch nun arms........are going to get trimmed down i guess, maybe cover the work with shoulder guards....which i guess i could use to differentiate units
There were two concepts, the one with armor, the other with less armor. The majority of the pledgers wanted the one with less armor. So posting the first design and then complaining they are not up to it is a little bit unfair. If anything you should compare them to the second and final design, which the minis resemble quite a lot.
Not sure how you think know what the majority of anyone wants, Duncan. Though that's not the point either. The unarmoured concept is the same pic as the one that's been displayed here several times. The unarmoured concept is essentially the same picture as the armoured one, except wearing fewer clothes. You'll note that you're completely wrong, as the figures armour is closer to the one that's been posted several times.
You'll notice that the troll models produce more closely resemble the latter concept art in mode of dress/heaviness of armour. Which has been our reference point of comparison since Scarletsquig corrected someone using the unarmoured concept art about 10 pages ago. Stewart said that an entirely different piece of concept art was used, which I can presume was one we've never seen because the trolls look like Trollbloods gone Wild-ly Awful..
Of course, if you have a troll picture that was posted on the kickstarter that we've all somehow missed, then bring it up and prove me wrong. I'll admit I was incorrect and apologise to you and Mantic here. If not, I'll be expecting you to be the bigger man and admit you're wrong on this point.
Hmm, only just realised the pic of the much maligned (and somewhat justly, IMO) sisterhood cav also contains, in the far right, one of the painted MaA if I'm not mistaken.
looks like a decent model, at least.
Alpharius wrote: The more I look at it...ouch!
The standard bearer shares the awful right arm, and adds to it with a ridiculous left arm!
Strange that these made it out of QC...
Mantic QC for some time seems to have been a blanket "Yeah, Mr.Sculptor, those are AWESOME!"
I'm not really seeing the not-exposed cleavage that Scarletsquig is talking about. I see the busts to be more like tight clothing that often gets lines between the breasts to emphasis them. More like this (sorry, couldn't find a better pic quickly)
Same deal with the lips etc, remember those pics are blown up to about 4x size (or 5x, being Mantic's figures?) I'm sure the facial details are fine at actual size. My only issues are with them having disproportionately long necks and arms ended by hands that have Mr.Fantastic's fingers - and the lack of QC on both the sculptor and Mantic that lets them through. Of course, they're not a great sculpt of the concept art, but they at least look like it this time...
scarletsquig wrote: Feel free to completely ignore the 80% of sculpts which did turn out very nicely with no complaints about them at all.
Like what? Mantic haven't bothered to show us the majority of the items properly yet. There's a couple that do look good, like the Goblin Chariot. There's some that are well-sculpted but have issues, like the Ogres and Lion Rider, and some that have real problems, like the trolls, cathorses, amazing stretch-o sisters... Then again, I should probably wait and see how that chariot turns out with proper pictures?
(Protip: if I complain about the ogres' legs, and someone else complains about the Lion's teeth - that's not "no complaints" unless you're then going to selectively disregard those that you don't feel are "real" complaints - and if you're going to ignore/strike my complaints you should do the same with all my opinions, including praise and defence of other sculpts/Mantic itself).
Let's wait till they've shown us everything (in about 2 weeks at this rate) before we start cheerleading for them again, eh?
scarletsquig wrote: Undead Skeletal Dog Handler
Ogres
Ogre Shooters
Ogre Captain
Paladins
Men-at-Arms
Angels
Palace Guard
Goblin Mincer
Orc Chariot
Gargoyles
Bazuzu the Vile
Basilean hero on lion.
Brock Riders
Mummies
Abyssal Golems
Immortal Guard
17 units, all of them seen, and all looking rather nice. sisters, cat cavalry, trolls and werewolves makes 4 to rant about.
So yeah, roughly 80%. The figure was chosen carefully, I never just throw numbers around for the sake of it.
/sigh. Let's not play this game - but if you must:
I've seen (or made!) complaints about:
Ogres
Paladins
Basilean hero on lion.
Brock Riders
Mummies
Abyssal Golems
I haven't personally even seen (at all or properly enough to have an opinion):
Ogre Shooters
Ogre Captain
Men-at-Arms
Palace Guard
Immortal Guard
We both forgot the werewolves, which have also attracted their fair share of complaints - though I personally don't mind them and never have - excepting the nipples.
The whole thread is about that kind of subjective thing, Doug. Thousands of posts on Dakka.
Note, I don't berate anyone about liking the trolls, as it's personal aesthetic choices - and as you say - subjectivity.
I personally prefer to keep this kind of discussion to more measurable things like proportions and direct comparisons to concept art, but if someone wants to play "no complaints at all about most of them" then hell yeah, I'll call them on it.
Most of the reasons people have for liking or disliking one or the other of these KoW sculpts are pretty reasonable and backed up as well. It's far from "these all suck because I said so".
Really though Azazelx, the hero on lion, ogres and paladins had mostly very positive reactions, the golems generally were well-received as well (I sure am getting extras too), the mummies were deemed somewhere in the area of "well, not too shabby", generally; it's just the brock riders, cats, sisters (arms, mostly!) trolls and to a somewhat lesser extent, werewolves which are catching flak.
as to the ogre shooters well, you've seen the bodies and there's pics of the weapons I believe - kinda close
I haven't seen immortal guard pics either (Squig, any chance of a hint where to find those? I believe you mentioned them as having been shown), by the way.
Most everything but the elf cav and some heroes should be revealed by friday or so, so let's hold this "percentage of mini's gone bad" debate for a week or so, shall we?
scarletsquig wrote: ^ I can't find the immortal guard pics, I have seen them though... somewhere on the internet, a long time ago.
Tried to dig them up for the image gallery I was making but gave up the search after several minutes.
Anyway, the point of my post was a simple counter to a lot of the more ridiculous statements that people have been throwing around lately.
I'm pretty sure there haven't been pics of them. I've been keeping my eyes open for them. We have seen the dragonfire thrower thing, but I don't think we've seen immortal guard.
There were a lot of complaints about earlier shots of werewolves, but the latest pics seemed to get a much more positive reaction.
There was definitely a grey epoxy immortal guard or two shown off at last year's open day, just WIP sculpts, though.. and quite similar to the existing hybrid immortal guard, only without the "good dwarf" legs.
Riquende might have some pics, but they're not on his new blog.
I personally quite like the werewolves and the kitty riders (they look so cute!), and the nuns will look alright with a few snips here and there.. so from my perspective that only leaves the trolls as the only major "drakon rider" tier sculpts from the kickstarter.
Personally, the only sculpts I don't like are the trolls and the sisters - but only that weird right arm with the hit-by-a-hammer hand. I've liked everything else.
Rats, I wanted Sisters but I don't want minis with poorly proportioned arms. Maybe the next design/production run will have better proportions.
More pertinently, does anyone know if the Basileans will have pikemen? Using spearman to "count as" is not appealing, I like adhering more closely to the WYSIWYGW concept.
I wish someone (Mantic?) would compile pics of the "good" sculpts... the ones that get all the mileage are the ones people have issue with, and so I haven't really seen the "good" ones as I don't follow this daily. The closest I've seen is squig's gallery, but it's only got 12 pics and is far from covering the list above...
So right now, I'm taking that on faith... but again, Bolognesus posted the mummies as getting a "well, not too shabby" reaction... with some of this concept art, I was hoping the minis would blow my socks off.
Still open to that happening... so, anyone have a link to pics of the "good" sculpts? Please
It might be best to limit the discussion to sculpts actually posted here. If only squig has seen some pics in the background of a youtube video for 3 frames, no one will be "right" about the number of complaint free sculpts.
Definitely seems like Mantic have taken too much on with so many Kickstarters "running" simultaneously. Otherwise they might have time to compile the sort of information RiTides is talking about for customers.
I might sound like I've got a bone to pick here but I've been fairly positive about Mantic in the past, so I think it's only fair to call them on it when I see things that I think are shoddy or silly.
RiTides wrote: I wish someone (Mantic?) would compile pics of the "good" sculpts... the ones that get all the mileage are the ones people have issue with, and so I haven't really seen the "good" ones as I don't follow this daily. The closest I've seen is squig's gallery, but it's only got 12 pics and is far from covering the list above...
So right now, I'm taking that on faith... but again, Bolognesus posted the mummies as getting a "well, not too shabby" reaction... with some of this concept art, I was hoping the minis would blow my socks off.
Still open to that happening... so, anyone have a link to pics of the "good" sculpts? Please
Yeah...when I first saw the mummies, I didn't like them because I was expecting something like the old heroquest mummies. That's what the concept art we saw showed too.
However, as an elite unit within the context of the undead army, the mummies that got made fit a lot better I think. In general, I like the mummies that got made as I look at them more (I find that with the trolls too, though I know they're not popular in general).
scarletsquig wrote: There was definitely a grey epoxy immortal guard or two shown off at last year's open day, just WIP sculpts, though.. and quite similar to the existing hybrid immortal guard, only without the "good dwarf" legs.
Is this the one you're thinking of, SS?
One of mine from the 2012 Open Day. As has been previously noted, the 2013 Open Day wasn't as good for sneak peeks.
