[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors

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**decker_cky**

Yup. Checked with Stewart and he confirmed we could. I ended up with more shooty ogres than I need, but the free command + hero made it worth it.

**Bolognesus**

mantic on KS wrote:Hey guys - first things first, we're preparing a big update to show you as much painted stuff as possible. Then we'll have greens where possible too. We appreciate more pics are needed and we'll be getting them as soon as we can!

Also confirmed: message stew to change BOGOFs (as mentioned by decker_cky) and change your <225 pledge to >=225 and you'll still get freebies for the latter.

...Now if only they'd let me make another $225 pledge...

**scarletsquig**

Bolognesus wrote:
mantic on KS wrote:Hey guys - first things first, we're preparing a big update to show you as much painted stuff as possible. Then we'll have greens where possible too. We appreciate more pics are needed and we'll be getting them as soon as we can!

Also confirmed: message stew to change BOGOFs (as mentioned by decker_cky) and change your <225 pledge to >=225 and you'll still get freebies for the latter.

...Now if only they'd let me make another $225 pledge...

This is just plain awesome on the part of Mantic. Even a last-minute addition counts for just as much as it did in the original KS, as long as you put at least some money down .

Also, I've found a much better collection of all the kickstarter sculpts than I could manage to put together:

http://napalmelfrebelscum.blogspot.co.nz/2013/05/mantic-kings-of-war-kickstarter-wave-2.html

Worth a look if you want to see all of the pics in one place, including all the latest stuff from the open day.

**judgedoug**

It's incredibly absurd Mantic doesn't have official pics and people have to collate random images from across the internet just so the KS backers who pledged 350 thousand dollars can see just what they are spending their money on. Serioiusly? Guh. I'm waiting til the last moment to add to my pledge to see if any more pics surface.

**livanbard**

The sister shameless sculpt get me out of this... I'm hoping for the Nature Humans to bring me again.

**decker_cky**

Bolognesus wrote:
...Now if only they'd let me make another $225 pledge...

Bah...you don't need lots more little stuff. You need to reach for $500 to get the special resin ogre hero!

**Dysartes**

scarletsquig wrote:
This is just plain awesome on the part of Mantic. Even a last-minute addition counts for just as much as it did in the original KS, as long as you put at least some money down .

Also, I've found a much better collection of all the kickstarter sculpts than I could manage to put together:

http://napalmelfrebelscum.blogspot.co.nz/2013/05/mantic-kings-of-war-kickstarter-wave-2.html

Worth a look if you want to see all of the pics in one place, including all the latest stuff from the open day.

Y'see that annoys me - if you're going to lift images from different blogs, is it really so hard to credit the people who took the images? He's using three of mine from last year's Open Day without mentioning that he didn't take any of the pictures.

In particular, the Female Vampire, the Gargoyle shot with the red background, and the green parts of the Obsidian Golems on the foam tray - all shown on this article of mine from last year - http://therenaissancegamer.co.uk/2012/09/30/invading-mantic-towers-photodump/

Having called him on it in the comments, it'll be interesting to see whether he removes the images or edits his post - either way, it goes to show why it is important to watermark your images...

**Pacific**

scarletsquig wrote:
Bolognesus wrote:
mantic on KS wrote:Hey guys - first things first, we're preparing a big update to show you as much painted stuff as possible. Then we'll have greens where possible too. We appreciate more pics are needed and we'll be getting them as soon as we can!

Also confirmed: message stew to change BOGOFs (as mentioned by decker_cky) and change your <225 pledge to >=225 and you'll still get freebies for the latter.

...Now if only they'd let me make another $225 pledge...

This is just plain awesome on the part of Mantic. Even a last-minute addition counts for just as much as it did in the original KS, as long as you put at least some money down .

Also, I've found a much better collection of all the kickstarter sculpts than I could manage to put together:

http://napalmelfrebelscum.blogspot.co.nz/2013/05/mantic-kings-of-war-kickstarter-wave-2.html

Worth a look if you want to see all of the pics in one place, including all the latest stuff from the open day.

That's really useful, thanks for posting it!

Quite a few pics there that I had missed..

**Azazelx**

scarletsquig wrote:
This is the final concept art that the sculptor followed when making the models. :p

Not trying to prove you wrong, but in my email of feedback to Stuart I did complain about the figures not matching the concept art that we based our pledges on - I showed both the final figures as painted by winterdyne and the concept art you linked, this was his reply:

Stuart Gibbs wrote:
As a very early Kickstarter, we never expected Kings of War to get anywhere near where it got to (we weren’t totally sure it would reach the $5K goal), and as such our concept art was thrown together with whatever we had at the time – we didn’t have time to discuss the look of all the models and get finalised art put together while the Kickstarter was running. Around half of the units in the KoW Kickstarter didn’t even have any art. As such, some of those concepts evolved over time, and that Troll concept was not the one actually used for the models in the end – it was one of three or four that have been shown at various points in time. However, this was drastically different by the time we did DreadBall, and all of the DreadBall models are much closer to the concepts.

I don't think that the explanation will do much (anything?) to curb the KoW backlash that's started - nor will it help their current reputation for uneven sculpt quality when this stuff (cathorse! long-armed ladies!) hits retail, but hopefully the forthcoming waves of their figures will be better matches to the concept art when applicable, and simply manage to be not-awful sculpts for others.

I sure hope those plastic Celestians turn out well...

**Pacific**

On a separate note, does anyone know when the Ogres are going to go on general sale (as opposed to the KS?)

**Alpharius**

I recently messaged them and switched to all Ogres - I didn't want to worry about other sculpts not matching anything, etc. etc.

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

Pacific wrote:
On a separate note, does anyone know when the Ogres are going to go on general sale (as opposed to the KS?)

Well the latest mantic blog says the Trolls will hit retail in June so I'm guessing the Ogres will too

http://www.manticblog.com/?p=7691f

(they're meant to be featuring a bunch of the new KOW stuff scheduled to hit the shops in june/july/august

**judgedoug**

I emailed Stew, as soon as we got the notification, from both my pledge emails (pledged from two different accounts) asking what I had ordered. Still no response.

**decker_cky**

judgedoug wrote:
I emailed Stew, as soon as we got the notification, from both my pledge emails (pledged from two different accounts) asking what I had ordered. Still no response.

I'd send another email. He should have gotten back by now.

**timetowaste85**

I emailed him as well, 4 days ago. Should I send another email as well? I figured 5 days was probably the limit, but if other people are having trouble getting responses too...

**scarletsquig**

Azazelx wrote:

Not trying to prove you wrong, but in my email of feedback to Stuart I did complain about the figures not matching the concept art that we based our pledges on - I showed both the final figures as painted by winterdyne and the concept art you linked, this was his reply:

When you say concept art, you don't mean the johhny bravo pic?

And you do mean the actual concept art of the troll I posted?

**RiTides**

I know I'm late to the party, but those trolls... Ugh!

I'm something of a connoisseur for trolls... and a sucker for them.

-I once owned 36 GW river trolls... excellent models, but even excellent, modular models become wearisome after you have too many

-I sold these and put the funds into picking up the entire PP Trollbloods faction!

Personally, I think some of PP's recent work has been hit and miss regarding trolls, too (I Really dislike the new restic Bouncer... the old metal version is so much better!).

But while I wouldn't put Mantic's trolls as far down my list as the GW Hobbit trolls... they're only one step above, still right down at the bottom of the list...

**Azazelx**

scarletsquig wrote:
Azazelx wrote:

Not trying to prove you wrong, but in my email of feedback to Stuart I did complain about the figures not matching the concept art that we based our pledges on - I showed both the final figures as painted by winterdyne and the concept art you linked, this was his reply:

And you do mean the actual concept art of the troll I posted?

The exact one you posted. Armoured version of the troll art from the KS. Cut and pasted from your post into my email to him, along with the pic of the completed models that they just emailed out again in the KS update.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

RiTides wrote:

But while I wouldn't put Mantic's trolls as far down my list as the GW Hobbit trolls... they're only one step above, still right down at the bottom of the list...

They're worse. The Hobbit ones are based on the WETA design (not GW's fault) and they look like their legs could possible support their bodies.

**timetowaste85**

RiTides wrote:
I know I'm late to the party, but those trolls... Ugh!

I'm something of a connoisseur for trolls... and a sucker for them.

-I once owned 36 GW river trolls... excellent models, but even excellent, modular models become wearisome after you have too many
-I sold these and put the funds into picking up the entire PP Trollbloods faction!

Personally, I think some of PP's recent work has been hit and miss regarding trolls, too (I Really dislike the new restic Bouncer... the old metal version is so much better!).

But while I wouldn't put Mantic's trolls as far down my list as the GW Hobbit trolls... they're only one step above, still right down at the bottom of the list...

Really? I like the trolls. I can see a quick fix too, if they aren't trollie enough: free stuff long, sideways ears and a long nose. They'll look correct. And troll sometimes have balance issues in fantasy novels due to incorrect limb proportions, so I'm not bothered by the limb "issues". I do feel for you guys that don't like them though, but I really do.

**BobtheInquisitor**

Azazelx wrote:
scarletsquig wrote:
This is the final concept art that the sculptor followed when making the models. :p

Not trying to prove you wrong, but in my email of feedback to Stuart I did complain about the figures not matching the concept art that we based our pledges on - I showed both the final figures as painted by winterdyne and the concept art you linked, this was his reply:

Stuart Gibbs wrote:
As a very early Kickstarter, we never expected Kings of War to get anywhere near where it got to (we weren’t totally sure it would reach the $5K goal), and as such our concept art was thrown together with whatever we had at the time – we didn’t have time to discuss the look of all the models and get finalised art put together while the Kickstarter was running. Around half of the units in the KoW Kickstarter didn’t even have any art. As such, some of those concepts evolved over time, and that Troll concept was not the one actually used for the models in the end – it was one of three or four that have been shown at various points in time. However, this was drastically different by the time we did DreadBall, and all of the DreadBall models are much closer to the concepts.

I don't think that the explanation will do much (anything?) to curb the KoW backlash that's started - nor will it help their current reputation for uneven sculpt quality when this stuff (cathorse! long-armed ladies!) hits retail, but hopefully the forthcoming waves of their figures will be better matches to the concept art when applicable, and simply manage to be not-awful sculpts for others.

I sure hope those plastic Celestians turn out well...

So, his explanation is that he sold us on a concept that may or may not have ever been intended to go into production, but he definitely felt comfortable ditching it without notice once he already had our money? Wow.

That explanation actually makes Mantic sound like an even bigger joke of a company than the sculpts. "The purpose of kickstarter was to show you whatever pictures would make you open your wallets so that we could have enough money to go and make something else."

**Pacific**

Ah, and in answer to my own question from a few posts above, just got this email about the new KoW stuff:

The Summer of Kings of War is coming!

Reinforcements are on the horizon for Kings of War and when this vast horde arrives surely the world will tremble!

Last year we put Kings of War on Kickstarter and asked people to help us add more units to each of the main armies, such as Werewolves and Trolls!

From June we will be having three months of major Kings of War releases: Undead and Orcs, the Human Basilean Kingdom and the Ogre army (with some Goblin additions too!)

The Summer of Kings of War is coming and we hope you’ll join us - watch out for model previews coming out next week on Facebook and the Blog!

**Azazelx**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:

So, his explanation is that he sold us on a concept that may or may not have ever been intended to go into production, but he definitely felt comfortable ditching it without notice once he already had our money? Wow.

That explanation actually makes Mantic sound like an even bigger joke of a company than the sculpts. "The purpose of kickstarter was to show you whatever pictures would make you open your wallets so that we could have enough money to go and make something else."

I see your point entirely, and don't really disagree either. It seems from his reply that they're at least learning, so hopefully some hope for the future. I'm pretty sure that between my wife and I we were down for 24 trolls (forces of Mordor, ahoy!) based on that excellent concept art - as opposed to the gak models that they've produced. So you'll understand that I'm pretty pissed off with the whole thing as well. Yeah, that troll army of Mordor got cancelled forever.

**JoshInJapan**

Huh. Lots of KoW backers are dissatisfied with the trolls. I dig 'em. A nice combination of goofy and menacing. I posted it in the Swap Shop, but I'll repeat it here. I don't need anything that doesn't go in an Orc or Undead army, so if you don't want your trolls let's trade.

**winterdyne**

I quite liked the trolls. They were fun to paint, and *different*. I think that's the key thing to bear in mind - these aren't D&D trolls, or GW trolls, or even LotR trolls. They're KoW Trolls. They're over-bodied, short legged masses of upper body strength with rusty metal rivetted to them. And they like shouting at rocks.

Edit: They were also pretty easy to clean up, and with minimal filler work on joins. You could quite easily build a unit of 6 quite distinct trolls I think. I was provided with 4 heads, 3 weapon fits and 2 body variants for the three.

**Azazelx**

It's entirely fine that you like the trolls. I've got absolutely no issue with people liking them. Personal aesthetic choices, etc etc.

My issue is they showed one thing which was the basis that people pledged on, and then delivered something entirely different. I might take you (or someone else) up on some trades once they're in hand.

**Da Boss**

That's the issue alright, and I hope it's something Mantic have learned from. I am glad I didn't go in on this kickstarter, from what's been shown so far.

**Fenriswulf**

From the kickstarter;

Mantic posted wrote:Hi everyone! Pictures of everything are on their way - we're just getting the last bits back from Golem and getting some pics taken. We'll get as much as we can up in the updates over the coming week, and if we can't fit it all in we'll extend the survey deadline to allow you to get a look at everything :-).

Cat Cavalry - this decision was made for a range of reasons. They better fitted the lighter fighting style that was written into the background for the sisterhood and they allowed for more flexibility in the range (a standard size means that mounts and riders of various creatures can be swapped around), amongst other things.

Metal Crossbowmen - The decision on what material is used for a sculpt depends on the volumes that we are able to sell. It is simply not economical for use to produce these figures in anything but metal at the moment, but the bigger Kings of War gets, the fewer hybrid kits we'll have to sell :-).

Changing concepts - thank you for your comments everyone. This is something that has been difficult for us in the past with the timescales involved, but as we've grown over the past year we should have a little more flexibility. Going forward we will do our best to give our backers as much input as possible into the figures that are produced through the Kickstarter. Hopefully those of you who have followed our subsequent Kickstarters have seen how much feedback we take on board and take action with :-).

@Daniel Clark - I can assure that this is not even slightly true. Every penny taken through this Kickstarter was spent on Kings of War. In fact, funding the units created from the Kings of War Kickstarter actually cost us more than the $354,997 raised, so we've put our own funds into this on top of the backers' support. The money raised from this Kickstarter was NOT spent on anything else, and the same goes for any project that we put up on here. Each project is independent of the others, and we do not allow any single one of them to negatively impact the others.

Anyway, back on topic - proper pictures are on their way very soon, and I'm sure you'll all be very happy with what we've got to show you. Keep your eye on the updates over the coming week!

So their response is "Sure, we completely changed how some of the sculpts turned out compared to the initial artwork, but you'll see in our other kickstarters just how much feedback we now take! Unfortunately for you, you get what we've done and that's pretty much it."

It's got a ring of a non-apology apology to it. Still not impressed. I am thinking more and more if they weren't so sidetracked with Dreadball and Deadzone this Kickstarter would have had a lot better miniatures to show for it, and a lot happier customers.

**BobtheInquisitor**

I love how they were so anxious to open their Deadzone KS that they couldn't wait a month until after their KoW pledge manager closed, forcing Mantic Fanatics to choose between projects, cannibalizing their sales, and scaring away potential DZ backers by pissing off KoW backers at just the right time. Bravo.

Maybe next time Mantic will take a few minutes to think things out. Turns out "time on target" is not the best method for blasting money out of people's wallets.

**scarletsquig**

I'm surprised no-one mentioned the metal command pieces (for all of the basileans and a bunch of other units) and their non-inclusion in the KS boxes.

I'd have thought that would have been a more relevant point to raise than complaining about the crossbowmen, which weren't part of the KoW KS at all.

I don't care about the material (hybrid restic is a bit pants, but I can deal if it's just 1-2 models), but it would have been nice to have them included, for both the retail and KS releases rather than being bitz packs.

Oh, and hopefully Topps are paying them cash to make the Mars Attacks thing happen, I think a Mars Attacks KS would be a bit of a stretch at this point. Of course, they'll need to sculpt and tool that range alongside the remaining KoW stuff, Dreadball season 3, all of Deadzone. I'm amazed they get any sleep.

**Fenriswulf**

That ticks me off as well, but not as much as not getting the sculpts I had ordered in the first place.

Post a comment on the kickstarter dude, they need to know about this stuff.