[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors

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**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

I didn't get in on the KS, but I'm buying some of the Trolls the moment they hit the shops

**decker_cky**

That wasn't the concept that went to the sculptor for the troll. That was the initial concept, then later concepts talked about unarmoured trolls. That appears to be one model where Mantic really wasn't sure where they were going with the model.

So the final models are definitely derived from this concept art, though they still went way out of whack from that concept art. I honestly think they took that concept art, added some influence from LOTR trolls, then exaggerated the proportions.

edit: and in my opinion, the sculpts are better than either of the concept art pieces. The armoured ones look too much like ogres, and the unarmoured ones are a little boring.

**scarletsquig**

This is the final concept art that the sculptor followed when making the models. :p

I'm glad some people like them, the cartoony-style sculpts seem to be quite divisive with a 50/50 love/hate split.

I'll definitely go ahead with a leg swap with reaper bones trolls and post some pics of how it turns out, hopefully it won't require much work (if I remember correctly the legs are separate on the Mantic trolls), and it'll be a really cheap conversion.

Edit: Quick photoshop I made to try and figure out if it's viable.. scaled down the image to match up the sizes correctly, it helps to know that the mantic trolls are on 40mm bases. Looks doable!

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

Aaargh now you've done it,

I'll have to buy another troll to add a quiff & sunglasses too

**Azazelx**

scarletsquig wrote:

It's the age-old problem with Mantic, they have lots of different freelancers sculpting for them all going off and doing their own thing (the troll/werewolf sculptor sculpted a lot of the trollblood models for privateer press, so you can see why the sculpts turned out the way they did) and it results in wildly different design styles within a single army. I don't feel like the concept art here was stuck to very well, if you look at the original design, they're heavily heroic scale, but they do at least have some legs to them:

Remy did a better job of sticking to the concept with the Ogres, whereas the trolls and werewolves done by the other sculptor seem to have deviated a lot.

It's always the more cartoony sculpts that are the most divisive, pretty much a 50/50 love/hate split.

Honestly, the problem is with the "commissioning editor" - or whatever the equivalent is at Mantic - and ultimately Ronnie being too willing to accept crap from freelancers that doesn't look like the concept art and instead looks too far down the path of ridiculous.

Pacific wrote:
I agree with ScarletSquig.. don't think the trolls go very well with the Orcs (and certainly don't look as good as the Ogres), although I don't think they are bad models per se. Certainly, better than the GW and PP miniatures (and the price differential makes it an absolute no-brainer).

Not in my opinion. Cheap gak is still gak. When they're so bad that you don't really want to use it as is - or need to buy additional models to "fix" them, are they really still "cheap"?

And really. Better than the GW ones? No. No they aren't. Sadly. I'm down for 18 extra trolls based on the concept art. Not this gak that they've turned out. Similarly, I'm down for 18 extra cathorses. Looks like I'm going to have to swap out for an awful lot of the plastic humans.

nkelsch wrote:

The issue is the final model is way off the concept art. The proportions are totally not even close. If they are employing sculptors and selling people on concept art, the sculptors need to stick to the concept art, which some of the freelancers are either incapable or unwilling to to. The Head to Bicep to Let ratio of the concept art and the final mini are drastically wrong compared to the concept art.

The other thing is the concept changed... The weapons don't match, the style of armor doesn't match... It is like whoever sculpted these has no idea what 'concept art' means. When I see concept art, I usually expect (and companies deliver) a 3D rendition of the 2D art. I expect to see poses, the buckles on the armor, the rivets, the brestplate, the fur around the knee. There are so many overall changes from the concept art, it is like they drew a picture of a Armored black orc and provided a Savage Goblin model. Not only did they not get the core anatomy of the concept art but they also drastically changed the theme of the model too.

This scares the piss out of me when it comes to buying models based upon concept art alone because it is not getting better.

Well said. This is also making me very dubious/cautious with regard to pledging for DeadZone.

**greenskin lynn**

looking at the trolls, i...don't care much for them, but i see a few quick alterations i'll do that should take care of it.
greenstuff some extra armor around the arm/shoulder to take care of the action figure joint look, and maybe some boots or somesuch that will bulk up the leg, i don't mind them being short, they just seem to...thin....to me
no clue what i'll do to the catvary

**Grot 6**

Does that artworkcount as false advertising?

**warboss**

Doubtful. Kickstarters are usually plastered with "preliminary", "may change", "not final" warnings.

**Azazelx**

Just got the pledge manager email. The email mainly talks about adding on models.

I sent this in reply. I thought it important to give non-abusive feedback with regard to the concept art and showing us what the final items are:

Hi Stewart,
I'm unfortunately unhappy with many of the final models and the large amount of deviation between what was shown in concept art and the final product (trolls). Other sculpts are simply sub-par (cathorse). With this in mind, I wish to radically change the items in my pledge, so I would like the full list associated with my pledge.

Will the other models that have not yet been shown be displayed properly (ie: hi-res pics) before we have to lock this in? There are quite a few not yet previewed or shown and I'd hate to have to throw away a pile of my money/pledge. Do you have a URL/URLS showing the completed models?

thank you,

**Pacific**

Azazelx wrote:

It's the age-old problem with Mantic, they have lots of different freelancers sculpting for them all going off and doing their own thing (the troll/werewolf sculptor sculpted a lot of the trollblood models for privateer press, so you can see why the sculpts turned out the way they did) and it results in wildly different design styles within a single army. I don't feel like the concept art here was stuck to very well, if you look at the original design, they're heavily heroic scale, but they do at least have some legs to them:

Pacific wrote:
I agree with ScarletSquig.. don't think the trolls go very well with the Orcs (and certainly don't look as good as the Ogres), although I don't think they are bad models per se. Certainly, better than the GW and PP miniatures (and the price differential makes it an absolute no-brainer).

Not in my opinion. Cheap gak is still gak. When they're so bad that you don't really want to use it as is - or need to buy additional models to "fix" them, are they really still "cheap"?

Well said. This is also making me very dubious/cautious with regard to pledging for DeadZone.

Well I guess ultimately it will always be a subjective judgement (within reason - I do agree the cat riders aren't particular evocative). I think those trolls are less ridiculous than the PP ones (ok.. that's probably the wrong term, how about 'extreme'), and actually look pretty similar to the LoTR trolls - in that sense, yes the price definitely does come into it, especially as here in the UK I can buy 3 of them for 1 GW troll. And I'm guessing in Aus you could probably get about 16, and still have enough cash left over to crack open some tinnies?

I think part of the issue here is that Mantic have set themselves a pretty tight schedule. They are producing miniatures at a very fast rate (especially considering how small the company is!) and by extension of that perhaps some of our expectations are too high. This isn't Corvus Belli, McVey miniatures or Hawk miniatures, where the miniature pieces are bordering on serious works of art - and you can almost feel the passion and thought that has gone into the creation of the miniature. Instead, Mantic are producing miniatures which I think most casual fans will view as good enough in most cases, exceptional in some, with the odd Pumbagore - and they are producing them at an incredibly cheap price. Nice if you have the money to chose to have an all GW orc army or whatever, but not all fans of wargaming do. At least Mantic has created an option of a cheap mass-battle system that didn't exist even 2 to 3 years ago.

**Bolognesus**

...And TBH some of us would vastly prefer mantic orcs over GW orcs, too. Now if you're going to argue mantic's dwarfs really do look the budget-part well, I can only agree. The orcs however are really quite good. Bit out of left-field style-wise, perhaps.

**scarletsquig**

Shipment 2 survey is out!

I just added $185 of Basileans to my pledge, all 8 different unit types + the lion hero and the book.

Here's a list of the new options for people to look over before clicking on the dreaded "one click ONLY" survey button:

Kings of War Kickstarter - Shipment 2

Army Deals
The Kickstarter has not only unlocked a horde of new heroes and units, it's unleashed some entire armies! Here are some one-click deals to get you everything you need, with some FREE bonuses thrown in!

Basilean Army Deal- $150 This set contains 6 Elohi, 40 Men-at-Arms, 20 Paladins, 10 Paladin Knights, 20 Sisterhood Infantry, 10 Sisterhood Lancers, and a FREE Sisterhood Panther Chariot! Please enter the quantity of this deal that you would like.

Ogre Army Deal - $125 This set contains 18 Ogres with Melee Weapons (your choice of Hand Weapons & Shields or Two-Handed Weapons), 12 Ogres with Missile Weapons (your choice of Crossbows or Blunderbusses), as well as a FREE Ogre Hero, and 2 FREE Ogre Command Sets! Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Buy-One-Get-One-Free (BOGOF) Deals
Buy one set and we'll double it up for FREE! The same fantastic deal that we ran during the Kickstarter is back, so if you missed anything then, now's your chance! Note that this offer is not mix-and-match - for example, if you add a BOGOF Werewolves, we'll give you another set free, turning your troop into a regiment!

Basilean Elohi (Angels) - $25 Contains 6 Angels (doubled up from 3). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Basilean Men-at-Arms - $25 Contains 40 hard plastic Men-at-Arms (doubled up from 20). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Basilean Paladins - $25 Contains 20 Paladins (doubled up from 10). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Basilean Paladin Knights (Cavalry) - $25 Contains 10 Paladin Knights (doubled up from 5). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Basilean Sisterhood Infantry - $25 Contains 20 Sisterhood (doubled up from 10). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Basilean Sisterhood Lancers (Cavalry) - $25 Contains 10 Sisterhood Lancers (doubled up from 5). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Ogre Warriors - $25 Contains 6 Ogres with Hand Weapons and Shields or Two-Handed Weapons (doubled up from 3). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Ogre Shooters - $25 Contains 6 Ogres with Crossbows or Blunderbusses (doubled up from 3). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Abyssal Dwarf/Twilight Kin Gargoyles - $25 Contains 20 Gargoyles (doubled up from 10). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Abyssal Dwarf Immortal Guard - $25 Contains 20 Immortal Guard (doubled up from 10). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Abyssal Dwarf Lesser Obsidian Golems - $25 Contains 6 Golems (doubled up from 3). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Dwarf Brock Riders - $25 Contains 10 Brock Riders (doubled up from 5). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Elf Palace Guard - $25 Contains 20 Palace Guard (doubled up from 10). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Elf Stormwind Cavalry - $25 (ships later in 2013) Contains 10 Stormwind Cavalry (doubled up from 5). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Goblin Fleabag Riders - $25 Contains 10 Fleabag Riders (doubled up from 5). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Goblin Mincer - $25 Contains 2 Mincers (doubled up from 1). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Orc Chariot/Fight Wagon - $25 Contains 2 Chariots or Fight Wagons (doubled up from 1). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Trolls - $25 Contains 6 Trolls (doubled up from 3). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Twilight Kin Dark Knights - $25 (ships later in 2013) Contains 10 Dark Knights (doubled up from 5). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Undead Mummies - $25 Contains 20 Mummies (doubled up from 10). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Undead Werewolves - $25 Contains 6 Werewolves (doubled up from 3). Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Kings and Legends
The Kickstarter funded a new expansion book for Kings of War called Kings and Legends, bringing a host of new heroes into the game, with background, rules, and more. With the book finished, a lot of these heroes have now been sculpted, and we are able to offer them to you at discounted Kickstarter prices! * one copy of each of the starred items is already included with pledges of $225 and above. If this model is already included at your reward level, you do not need to select it here unless you want duplicates.

Kings and Legends Book - $10 (digital copy included free with pledges of $100 and up) Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Ba'su'su the Vile - Abyssal Dwarf Gargoyle Hero - $8 Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Berosos, High Priest of Basilea - $8 Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Herneas the Hunter, Dwarf Ranger Hero - $8 Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

* J'zik Gearlund, Dwarf Healer - $8 (ships later in 2013) Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Kernow, Warden of the Southern Watch, Dwarf Standard Bearer - $8 Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

* El'Rik Nisleen, Elf Mage Hero - $8 (ships later in 2013) Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

The Green Lady, Elf Hero - $8 Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Grokagamok, Ogre Mercenary Captain - $12 Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Ogre Command Upgrade Pack - $10 Contains enough components to upgrade an Ogre unit with a command group. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

* Atlak Nakh, Twilight Kin Hero - $8 (ships later in 2013) Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

* Mikayel, Lord of Nightmares, Twilight Kin Hero - $12 (ships later in 2013) Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Lady Ilona, Undead Vampiress - $10 (note that this model is already included in certain reward levels - see the main KS page for details) Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Lord Malak, Vampire Hero on Winged Hellsteed (new rider sculpt) - $20 Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

The Basilean Legacy
The Kings of War Kickstarter allowed us to create an entire new army - the Basileans, a race of fanatical religious humans (see the BOGOF section above). To supplement the core of the army funded by the Kickstarter, there is also a range of heroes and other miniatures available, as well as the book, containing background and army lists. The focus of this book is Basilea, but it also contains lists for the forces of Nature and the Abyss. * one copy of each of the starred items is already included with pledges of $225 and above. If this model is already included at your reward level, you do not need to select it here unless you want duplicates.

The Basilean Legacy Book - $15 Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

* Basilean Angel Hero Jullius - $15 (ships later in 2013) Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

* Basilean Angel Mage Hero Samacris - $15 (ships later in 2013) Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

* Basilean Lord on Lion - $15 (ships later in 2013) Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Basilean Sisterhood Panther Chariot - $15 Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Basilean Men-at-Arms Command Upgrade Pack - $4 Contains enough components to upgrade a Men-at-Arms unit with a command group. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Basilean Men-at-Arms Crossbow Upgrade Pack - $5 Contains enough components to upgrade 10 Men-at-Arms to Crossbowmen. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Basilean Paladin Command Upgrade Pack - $4 Contains enough components to upgrade a Paladin or Paladin Knights unit with a command group. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Basilean Sisterhood Command Upgrade Pack - $4 Contains enough components to upgrade a Sisterhood or Sisterhood Lancers unit with a command group. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

* Druid Hero - $10 (ships later in 2013) Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

* Air Elemental Hero - $10 (ships later in 2013) Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Other Items
The success of the Kickstarter has allowed us to create all sorts of extra little items to supplement your armies with, and here you can get all of them at discounted Kickstarter prices!

Kings of War Digital Art Book - $5 Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Kickstarter Exclusive Undead Dog Handler - $5 (note that this model is included FREE in pledges of $100 and up) Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Limited Edition Undead Standard Bearer - $10 (note that this model is included FREE in pledges of $175 and up) Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Goblin Hero Set - $15 Contains Biggit, Flaggit & Wiz. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Goblin Fleabag Rider Command Upgrade Pack - $4 Contains enough components to upgrade a Fleabag Rider unit with a command group. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Goblin Fleabag Rider Archer Upgrade Pack - $5 Contains enough components to upgrade 10 Fleabag Riders to Archers. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Abyssal Dwarf Fire Team - $12 Contains 3 models to make an Abyssal Dwarf Fire Team. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

That's actually quite an interesting news/rumour info dump there as well,looks like we'll be getting Panther Chariots, Abyssal fire teams and Fleabag sniffs as releases.

**BobtheInquisitor**

Azazelx, please let us know what their response is.

**Azazelx**

Pacific wrote:

Well I guess ultimately it will always be a subjective judgement (within reason - I do agree the cat riders aren't particular evocative). I think those trolls are less ridiculous than the PP ones (ok.. that's probably the wrong term, how about 'extreme'), and actually look pretty similar to the LoTR trolls - in that sense, yes the price definitely does come into it, especially as here in the UK I can buy 3 of them for 1 GW troll. And I'm guessing in Aus you could probably get about 16, and still have enough cash left over to crack open some tinnies?

Well, liking them is obviously subjective. Matching the concept art or not is pretty cut and dried.

Only some of the trollblood stuff has ridiculous proportions, and even those have better-than-toothpick legs (like the Mantic concept art)

These are LotR trolls - the Mantic ones are nothing like them, unfortunately. My plan (which has been flushed with the pictures of the Mantic ones) was to actually use the Mantic ones as LotR ones, and also to use them if I ever repurpose my old WHFB armies to KoW. The concept art (both armoured and unarmoured) were "close enough" but unfortunately between concept and final sculpt they've contracted a mixture of atrophy and gigantism.

If it was just about price - and to me, it isn't. I'd just buy a bunch of these for less than the Mantic ones.

I should point out that I actually do have a couple of these, as it's a fine model.

I also don't actually need the trolls. But imagine how cool a giant unit of 18-24 of those (concept art) trolls would have looked marching across a table. That';s why I went in big for them.

See, the thing is. I'm not angry, but I'm annoyed on a number of levels. There's the bait-and-switch from concept to final - or simply poor editing - or not being willing to tell a freelancer "no, do it again!" So as a backer, I feel I've spent money I probably would not have. (I'd never buy that gak in a store, after all!) And that leads to my next point. I actually seriously do want Mantic to do well. I want them to become a legitimate challenger to GW. Pumping out gakky sculpts like this just isn't going to do it. I can imagine the guys at GW laughing when they see these sculpts, as they work to lessen Mantic's stature.

I think part of the issue here is that Mantic have set themselves a pretty tight schedule. They are producing miniatures at a very fast rate (especially considering how small the company is!) and by extension of that perhaps some of our expectations are too high. This isn't Corvus Belli, McVey miniatures or Hawk miniatures, where the miniature pieces are bordering on serious works of art - and you can almost feel the passion and thought that has gone into the creation of the miniature. Instead, Mantic are producing miniatures which I think most casual fans will view as good enough in most cases, exceptional in some, with the odd Pumbagore - and they are producing them at an incredibly cheap price. Nice if you have the money to chose to have an all GW orc army or whatever, but not all fans of wargaming do. At least Mantic has created an option of a cheap mass-battle system that didn't exist even 2 to 3 years ago.

Bit of a red herring there. The figures are indeed on a tight schedule, but they're hiring freelancers to do them. There are also only three trolls, and frankly, these models have to be their range for years to come, and based on the concepts they could have, should have kicked so much arse. Imagine if we could argue from a position of strength that not only are their trolls 1/3 the cost of a GW one, but actually equal or better sculpts. Instead, we have clownshoes and "well, they're cheaper!" May as well just buy ranks of the Reaper Bones one instead and convert the limbs over and over.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bolognesus wrote:
...And TBH some of us would vastly prefer mantic orcs over GW orcs, too. Now if you're going to argue mantic's dwarfs really do look the budget-part well, I can only agree. The orcs however are really quite good. Bit out of left-field style-wise, perhaps.

The orcs/orx are stylistically different. That's a personal aesthetic thing. People may like or dislike them, but they're not bad sculpts or disproportionate. Even GW's current Orks work in terms of aping the proportions of a gorilla in a reasonable way for miniatures.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Azazelx, please let us know what their response is.

I imagine they will be diplomatic in a "thank you for your feedback" way with the comments and absolutely fine with me changing them. I didn't quote the email in full, but it did include this statement:

If you need anything that doesn't fit within the questions on the survey, or you want to make a change to your existing order, just mention it in the comments box. Please visit the Kings of War Kickstarter page for a reminder of the available options:

But I will repost their reply. I'm really most interested in seeing if they're willing to show us the rest of the models before shipping them so we can make informed choices. (because, yeah, I was still pretty keen on the trolls until about 2 days ago!)

**Bolognesus**

Azazelx wrote:

Bolognesus wrote:
...And TBH some of us would vastly prefer mantic orcs over GW orcs, too. Now if you're going to argue mantic's dwarfs really do look the budget-part well, I can only agree. The orcs however are really quite good. Bit out of left-field style-wise, perhaps.

The orcs/orx are stylistically different. That's a personal aesthetic thing. People may like or dislike them, but they're not bad sculpts or disproportionate. Even GW's current Orks work in terms of aping the proportions of a gorilla in a reasonable way for miniatures.

..Uuhm, I don't believe we actually disagree here?

**Azazelx**

Bolognesus wrote:
Azazelx wrote:

The orcs/orx are stylistically different. That's a personal aesthetic thing. People may like or dislike them, but they're not bad sculpts or disproportionate. Even GW's current Orks work in terms of aping the proportions of a gorilla in a reasonable way for miniatures.

..Uuhm, I don't believe we actually disagree here?

No, we don't. I was agreeing with you. We're allowed to post agreeing opinions as well as contrary ones.

...aren't we?

**decker_cky**

Thanks scarletsquig. Some surprising things on that list:

I wonder if this ogre hero in the army set is the same one we got for free already?

Ba'su'su the Vile - Abyssal Dwarf Gargoyle Hero - $8 Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Berosos, High Priest of Basilea - $8 Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Herneas the Hunter, Dwarf Ranger Hero - $8 Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Kernow, Warden of the Southern Watch, Dwarf Standard Bearer - $8 Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

The Green Lady, Elf Hero - $8 Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Grokagamok, Ogre Mercenary Captain - $12 Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Ogre Command Upgrade Pack - $10 Contains enough components to upgrade an Ogre unit with a command group. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Lady Ilona, Undead Vampiress - $10 (note that this model is already included in certain reward levels - see the main KS page for details) Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Lord Malak, Vampire Hero on Winged Hellsteed (new rider sculpt) - $20 Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Basilean Sisterhood Panther Chariot - $15 Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Basilean Men-at-Arms Command Upgrade Pack - $4 Contains enough components to upgrade a Men-at-Arms unit with a command group. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Basilean Men-at-Arms Crossbow Upgrade Pack - $5 Contains enough components to upgrade 10 Men-at-Arms to Crossbowmen. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Basilean Paladin Command Upgrade Pack - $4 Contains enough components to upgrade a Paladin or Paladin Knights unit with a command group. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Basilean Sisterhood Command Upgrade Pack - $4 Contains enough components to upgrade a Sisterhood or Sisterhood Lancers unit with a command group. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Goblin Hero Set - $15 Contains Biggit, Flaggit & Wiz. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Goblin Fleabag Rider Command Upgrade Pack - $4 Contains enough components to upgrade a Fleabag Rider unit with a command group. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Goblin Fleabag Rider Archer Upgrade Pack - $5 Contains enough components to upgrade 10 Fleabag Riders to Archers. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

Abyssal Dwarf Fire Team - $12 Contains 3 models to make an Abyssal Dwarf Fire Team. Please enter the quantity of this item that you would like.

That should pretty much be the models that weren't available as of the kickstarter.

I'm really surprised the basilian command set isn't included on the sprue. Looks like there will be a quite a few command group upgrades that need to be added to make a basilian army.

Very cool that the abyssal dwarf fire team is available.

**Azazelx**

I just wish they weren't asking us to buy things like the sisterhood chariot blind. I like the idea of a cat chariot, but I need to see it before taking the plunge at this point.

**decker_cky**

Azazelx wrote:
I just wish they weren't asking us to buy things like the sisterhood chariot blind. I like the idea of a cat chariot, but I need to see it before taking the plunge at this point.

If you hated the ridden cats, I imagine you wouldn't like this much more. Probably work better pulling a chariot than being ridden, but I don't think they'll be much different.

**Azazelx**

It depends on whether they've kept the same proportions, reused the same sculpts, or have new sculpts with more realistic proportions. With Mantic, it could go either way, but without pics there's no way of knowing - and as you correctly suggest, not worth the risk sight unseen if you dislike the cavalry ones.

**Bolognesus**

Azazelx wrote:
Bolognesus wrote:
Azazelx wrote:

The orcs/orx are stylistically different. That's a personal aesthetic thing. People may like or dislike them, but they're not bad sculpts or disproportionate. Even GW's current Orks work in terms of aping the proportions of a gorilla in a reasonable way for miniatures.

..Uuhm, I don't believe we actually disagree here?

No, we don't. I was agreeing with you. We're allowed to post agreeing opinions as well as contrary ones.

...aren't we?

Sure! Not really used to it here, that's all

I believe mantic did at one point promise we'd get to see all sculpts before having to finalize the survey; I hope they make good on that.
Besides that, I do hope they'll let me trade my Basilean BOGOFs (6 of them...) for that army deal; would feel kind of crap getting waaay too many MaA and no free chariot now...
Oh, and here's to hoping those command packs do get made available separately after the KS... I have three $225 pledges in (don't ask... went crazy. Still quite happy with them though

) so I'd probably be wise to get some command sets but it's a MAJOR hassle figuring that all out amidst a thesis deadline and a bunch of exams looming. First world problems, etc

**Schmapdi**

I'm rather annoyed by this email.

I shelled out for a rather large Basilean force. And apparently none of them come with command components? So I have to pay for those now too.

WORSE - I'm guessing all these little upgrade packs are probably metal bits? I hate hybrid models. Not very happy :/

**Fenriswulf**

I really need to see the rest of the sculpts before I got ahead and pick what I want.

I am likely to redirect my $195 worth of BOGOF and other choices to Basilean, but I need to see exactly what is coming down the pike for them so I can better make my decision.

I am hoping that they release the photo's soon so I can exactly choose what I want. So far it looks like it will be $125 worth of Men at arms, some upgrade sprues and heroes, and I don't know what else. I need more details if I am going to make an informed decision.

Edit: Looks like their open day is tomorrow. I am hoping someone takes some shots of the new units, or they release them on the same day. Can't just rely on poor photographs from other people to showcase your models Mantic.

**scarletsquig**

Schmapdi wrote:
I'm rather annoyed by this email.

I shelled out for a rather large Basilean force. And apparently none of them come with command components? So I have to pay for those now too.

WORSE - I'm guessing all these little upgrade packs are probably metal bits? I hate hybrid models. Not very happy :/

Already asked over at the Mantic forum about all of that, I knew it'd come up. Just waiting on a reply at the moment.

I didn't bother adding any of the command options, $5 for one arm with a horn and another arm with a pointy stick didn't exactly strike me as a compelling purchase. :p

**Azazelx**

Bolognesus wrote:

I believe mantic did at one point promise we'd get to see all sculpts before having to finalize the survey; I hope they make good on that.
Besides that, I do hope they'll let me trade my Basilean BOGOFs (6 of them...) for that army deal; would feel kind of crap getting waaay too many MaA and no free chariot now...
Oh, and here's to hoping those command packs do get made available separately after the KS... I have three $225 pledges in (don't ask... went crazy. Still quite happy with them though ) so I'd probably be wise to get some command sets but it's a MAJOR hassle figuring that all out amidst a thesis deadline and a bunch of exams looming. First world problems, etc

What army deal is that? My wife and I both have $225s in on this, and we were going to do do a whole lot of stuff with the trolls and cat cavalry (amongst others) as I'm teaching her to paint.

scarletsquig wrote:

Already asked over at the Mantic forum about all of that, I knew it'd come up. Just waiting on a reply at the moment.
I didn't bother adding any of the command options, $5 for one arm with a horn and another arm with a pointy stick didn't exactly strike me as a compelling purchase. :p

I'm also wondering what exactly a "command pack" is. It could range from a couple of arms as you suggest to the sort of "command blister" that GW used to include in their plastic regiment boxed sets. Typically, the GW ones would include a commander head, commander weapon, metal instrument, metal standard pole and icon for the standard top, and sometimes a second head for the musician/standard (or some bits to glue on them). What you're suggesting sounds like awful value, and a bit unlike Mantic's usual. The GW-style add-ons would be reasonable for the price - though a plastic command sprue or just having the command extras on the plastic sprue would have made much more sense...

Hybrid regiment kits are often gakky, but it's okay for a couple of specific add-ons to a command group IMO. They could just as easily be in spin-cast restic in this case, so I guess we wait and see if we get a reply.

Fenriswulf wrote:
I really need to see the rest of the sculpts before I got ahead and pick what I want.
I am likely to redirect my $195 worth of BOGOF and other choices to Basilean, but I need to see exactly what is coming down the pike for them so I can better make my decision.
I am hoping that they release the photo's soon so I can exactly choose what I want. So far it looks like it will be $125 worth of Men at arms, some upgrade sprues and heroes, and I don't know what else. I need more details if I am going to make an informed decision.
Edit: Looks like their open day is tomorrow. I am hoping someone takes some shots of the new units, or they release them on the same day. Can't just rely on poor photographs from other people to showcase your models Mantic.

Yeah. The ogres are ..okay. I don't hate the Werewolves as a few other people do, but with all the cheap Confrontation figures I've picked up recently, I don't exactly need a whole lot of them so the included ones will probably suffice. We went in big on the trolls, ogres and cat cav, so that's a lot of BOGOFs to need to replace now.

**AlexHolker**

judgedoug wrote:
AlexHolker wrote:
agnosto wrote:
GOD! Why in the @&#^# do they have to make everything have tinsy tiny little legs?!?!?!?

Because Mantic has no eye for proportions that don't look like gak, and never has.

Compared to who? Thunderbolt Mountain Miniatures? If you're talking proportions, GW's models look like gak, PP's models look like gak. Giant ham fists and balloon heads. Especially GW orcs, who look like slowed hydrocephalic babies. Thank god Mantic came along, now I have a giant army of actual evil looking orcs with proper proportions.

Compared to artists in general. "But Games Workshop sucks too!" is an idiot's response. If you're going to sculpt a miniature that might be in production for a decade or more, half-assing it is stupid, even if your competition half-asses theirs.

Using the cathorse as an example, here's a leotau from Magic: the Gathering. Even though it literally has hooves, the legs are sized like a cat's and not like a horse's, which means it looks like its own creature and not just a lion sculpted by someone who only knows how to sculpt horses.

**Bolognesus**

Azazelx wrote:
Bolognesus wrote:

I believe mantic did at one point promise we'd get to see all sculpts before having to finalize the survey; I hope they make good on that.
Besides that, I do hope they'll let me trade my Basilean BOGOFs (6 of them...) for that army deal; would feel kind of crap getting waaay too many MaA and no free chariot now...
Oh, and here's to hoping those command packs do get made available separately after the KS... I have three $225 pledges in (don't ask... went crazy. Still quite happy with them though ) so I'd probably be wise to get some command sets but it's a MAJOR hassle figuring that all out amidst a thesis deadline and a bunch of exams looming. First world problems, etc

What army deal is that? My wife and I both have $225s in on this, and we were going to do do a whole lot of stuff with the trolls and cat cavalry (amongst others) as I'm teaching her to paint.

Basilean Army Deal- $150 This set contains 6 Elohi, 40 Men-at-Arms, 20 Paladins, 10 Paladin Knights, 20 Sisterhood Infantry, 10 Sisterhood Lancers, and a FREE Sisterhood Panther Chariot.

I have three MaA BOGOFs, two paladin bogofs and a sisterhood bogof; 6 BOGOFs should exchange nicely for this

of course, if you hate the cats, this might not be such a great idea. I do hope they'll include command sets in an army deal at least, come to think of it...

**overtyrant**

Azazelx wrote:
Just got the pledge manager email. The email mainly talks about adding on models.

I sent this in reply. I thought it important to give non-abusive feedback with regard to the concept art and showing us what the final items are:

Hi Stewart,
I'm unfortunately unhappy with many of the final models and the large amount of deviation between what was shown in concept art and the final product (trolls). Other sculpts are simply sub-par (cathorse). With this in mind, I wish to radically change the items in my pledge, so I would like the full list associated with my pledge.

Will the other models that have not yet been shown be displayed properly (ie: hi-res pics) before we have to lock this in? There are quite a few not yet previewed or shown and I'd hate to have to throw away a pile of my money/pledge. Do you have a URL/URLS showing the completed models?

thank you,

I suspect we will see the pics on the weekend as its Mantics open day tomorrow. Though I would rather of been notified though the KS (thus sending an email notification) rather then searching the interwebz to try and find the pics!

So far the only models I really dislike are the cathorse, I goy excited when I saw the mounted hero on the lion thingy then I saw a picture of those things!

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

If anybody from the UK does not want their trolls and/or ogres (with hand weapons) I'm after 2 packs of each (BOGOF) of each and will happily pay the $25 (£16.50) Mantic are asking in the survey for each plus appropriate postage

(or if anybody from the UK is willing to add them onto their survey for my)

Drop me a PM if you are interested

**Azazelx**

overtyrant wrote:

I suspect we will see the pics on the weekend as its Mantics open day tomorrow. Though I would rather of been notified though the KS (thus sending an email notification) rather then searching the interwebz to try and find the pics!

So far the only models I really dislike are the cathorse, I goy excited when I saw the mounted hero on the lion thingy then I saw a picture of those things!

I didn't know that. I just got the ONE CLICK ONLY survey with no mention of them showing off the new KS models or the new, new models. I liked the lion hero. Might need some dental surgery, but otherwise it looked good.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Remember, people will be getting single sets of 3 models by default. They'll likely be re-allocating their BOGOFs to models they actually like.