To be honest, I always thought those GW dragons look utterly ridiculous and I think the only reason more people don't think so is because they've grown up with dragon minis that look like that, even a lot of the Bones dragons are pretty similar.
The body is far too long and thin, it's like a sausage dog or a centipede and don't even get me started on the giant clown hands. If it wasn't reared up on it's back legs then it's proportions would look really stupid.
The mantic dragon is getting far too much stick imo, I actually like it, it's just a different style of dragon to the usual snake with legs and wings that most companies go for. When you take into account that it's also designed to be used in a boardgame, so doesn't have any sticking out bits at ground level so figures can properly surround it and touch it's base then it's a decent effort.
It's all opinions though, depends what you want your dragon to look like.
I think that's a fine aesthetic choice to make. I don't care much for the GW serpentine dragons, but fat bodied dragons always throw a 1960s fantasy art vibe that I'd rather start looking for rolling papers than my dice.
My point is simply that saying Mantic has to work within the confines of a base isn't enough of a reason for this model.
Ashardalon started his tabletop life in the D&D skirmish game, and the figures were very much limited in size to their base's footprint, for the very reason to combat base overhang. That's why he fits so good. Heck, most of that line was good about actually staying within the dimensions of the base (with a few exceptions naturally).
Could Bob ski, shoot, and run better than a Mantic dragon though? That's the important question.
I think that's a fine aesthetic choice to make. I don't care much for the GW serpentine dragons, but fat bodied dragons always throw a 1960s fantasy art vibe that I'd rather start looking for rolling papers than my dice.
My point is simply that saying Mantic has to work within the confines of a base isn't enough of a reason for this model.
I agree with your last point completely. As for the fat bellied dragon...that's not even in the top 3 problems I have with Mantic's model. Not saying it's not a problem, just that it has far worse in my opinion. I personally prefer the kinds of dragons painted by Bob Eggleton, Michael Whelan or Todd Lockwood. Some of the better Bones dragons fit that aesthetic perfectly, while the Mantic dragon does not. Schleich and papo have made some real winners, too.
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highlord tamburlaine wrote: Ashardalon started his tabletop life in the D&D skirmish game, and the figures were very much limited in size to their base's footprint, for the very reason to combat base overhang. That's why he fits so good. Heck, most of that line was good about actually staying within the dimensions of the base (with a few exceptions naturally).
Could Bob ski, shoot, and run better than a Mantic dragon though? That's the important question.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Ashardalon started his tabletop life in the D&D skirmish game, and the figures were very much limited in size to their base's footprint, for the very reason to combat base overhang. That's why he fits so good. Heck, most of that line was good about actually staying within the dimensions of the base (with a few exceptions naturally).
Could Bob ski, shoot, and run better than a Mantic dragon though? That's the important question.
Yeah, I have a few Chainmail, some of the DDM, and all but the Drizzt boardgame. The pieces aren't always the best sculpts (most are pretty good though) and they are designed intelligently. Mantic seems to lean that way. They're starting with function and then piling some form on top. The dragon was in a $25 add-on for DS. Let's not forget that it came with some tiles and actual 3d props like the plastic dungeon terrain and doors. That seems pretty fair. NOW.. the KoW version was $25 just for the dragon and a rider.. which to me there's no way this is worth that. So if we're talking about value.. it really depends on how you came across your dragon and hey, if people are happy with theirs, more power to them.
I think, given the era that we live in, the other options out there, Mantic isn't doing themselves any favor by not stepping up their game. That dragon is not some old existing model that is just kinda there and that's the way it's been. That's a new model. They're better than that, they just have to want to be.
NTRabbit wrote: I have a bunch of the dragons from Bones II, and not a one of them fits inside the 75mmx75mm base size bar the small Silver Dragon, and the very silly Verocithrax. All of the others have either a wing or a tail curling well outside the footprint.
The Pathfinder Red Dragon Bones figure also fits on a 3x3 base - though the tail needs a hot water bath to fit, the tail is thin enough, and flexible enough, that this is not a major operation.
My Dungeon Saga pledge hasn't arrived yet, but I did get to have a poke and prod at the original Dungeon Saga dragon at the UK Games Expo back in May.
I liked him, though the phrase that came to mind was 'chunky' as opposed to fat. In any case, I had no problems with any of the minis I used that day.
The only kinda thing is, like the Dreadball Xtreme models and Fantasy Flight's Imperial Assault minis, the detail is shallower than what most 'proper' miniature wargamers would likely prefer. But then, that's just the material.
I've got the Reaper Bones Cinder dragon on a 50x50 base but I haven't figured out the best elf model that I have to put on top nor how to do it. Basing required some hot water bathing and bending though, it wasn't perfect out of the package.
Sad to see the Mantic dragon. I was hoping for better.
Necros wrote: Can't wait to get my stuff.. between this and my Blood Rage goodies I'm gonna OD on plasticrack
Also trying to figure out how to set up my blood rage vikings as an Armies of Men army for KOW.. troops are easy enough, but not sure how to handle the giants/ogre sized minis. Was looking over the list last night and there's an option for a warbeast or something that looks to be on a chariot sized base, so maybe I can do the blood rage giants in pairs of 2 on 1 base as a kind of proxy? or would that look silly?
You might be able to use the Varangur list to good effect; they have lots of monsters. Alternately, the orcs list might be good too for giants and ogres/trolls. Either way though, you are probably going to need more models, as one set of BR won't have enough infantry even if you use the ~2/3 rule of thumb for how many bodies in a unit.
Having now had the dragon model in my hands I can say it is actually pretty nice. Just really not a wargame piece but fits well into a dungeon crawler.
Consul Scipio wrote: I've got the Reaper Bones Cinder dragon on a 50x50 base but I haven't figured out the best elf model that I have to put on top nor how to do it. Basing required some hot water bathing and bending though, it wasn't perfect out of the package.
Sad to see the Mantic dragon. I was hoping for better.
Go the GW route and strap the model onto the dragons chest like the dreadknight babycarrier
I actually quite like the Dragon in Dungeon Saga, reminds me of that wonderful 80s animated film Flight of Dragons where most dragons looked like that. Plus there was a bit of science behind their flight
Necros wrote: Can't wait to get my stuff.. between this and my Blood Rage goodies I'm gonna OD on plasticrack
Also trying to figure out how to set up my blood rage vikings as an Armies of Men army for KOW.. troops are easy enough, but not sure how to handle the giants/ogre sized minis. Was looking over the list last night and there's an option for a warbeast or something that looks to be on a chariot sized base, so maybe I can do the blood rage giants in pairs of 2 on 1 base as a kind of proxy? or would that look silly?
You might be able to use the Varangur list to good effect; they have lots of monsters. Alternately, the orcs list might be good too for giants and ogres/trolls. Either way though, you are probably going to need more models, as one set of BR won't have enough infantry even if you use the ~2/3 rule of thumb for how many bodies in a unit.
Is Varangur in the new book? I didn’t see that, but I was just kinda skimming. But yeah I was concerned about model count too. I was gonna buy a 2nd box when my FLGS gets it in stock. But, I was thinking I’d combine everyone with spears into a spearman unit, and another with all hand weapons. and do my units like that so there would be a bunch of guys different clan’s guys mixed together, and that would make for some more variety so they look better I was thinking I’d want to keep the clans together as separate units at first, but there’s only like 2 different poses so I was afraid that wouldn’t look as good. Either way as far as unit sizes go I figured I’d be using movement trays that are cut to the right size for the units and just sticking the round base minis on top, and also keep some dice for marking how many are in the unit or still alive. So I could start playing like that and add more minis in over time as I buy em.
At least my repeated criticisms of products a company is offering for sale are on topic, unlike this latest pity party about how much of a big meanie I am. You want me to stop saying Mantic's products are gak? Tell them to stop making gak products.
At least my repeated criticisms of products a company is offering for sale are on topic, unlike this latest pity party about how much of a big meanie I am. You want me to stop saying Mantic's products are gak? Tell them to stop making gak products.
Yeah, like they listen , Next you'll say GW does market research
At least my repeated criticisms of products a company is offering for sale are on topic, unlike this latest pity party about how much of a big meanie I am. You want me to stop saying Mantic's products are gak? Tell them to stop making gak products.
I think you misunderstand. Nobody thinks your mean. Being mean can be funny, or righteous, or simply interesting. You are none of those things.
Your posts are boring, shrill, and repetitive. That doesn't make them mean. It makes them annoying.
there are plenty of interesting ways to critique a product. Why you insist on simply posting "Hey, another lousy mantic product!" is beyond me.
Kings of War question- with the whole 2/3 of a unit needing to be present, can I get away with a large infantry 6- figure unit represented as a 5 figure one? Would that be legal?
Trying to figure out the best way to divvy things up (as well as which size trays to purchase).
So I was checking out the new digital uncharted empires on their site, still not available until November 23. When will Mantic get more up to date with the conversion rates? It's just annoying to see £9.99=$19.99 when the last time the exchange rate was $2=£1 was when they all worked at GW, and we all enjoyed GW games and there was no competition. It really kills me from buying direct from them and at $25 retail even with a discount the shipping costs from people preordering it puts it back above my purchase price threshold, especially given the latest round of their editing.
I may have to rework my numbers now. I may be able to field a much higher point value army than I initially thought. Hmmm....
That's not to say that 4 minis to a 6 man unit actually looks good - I find 5 to be the minimum that actually works, visually. But if you can make it work, go for it
Re: The dragon: I actually really like it. For DS, its awesome. No bits that stick out, pretty imposing... I do think it could have been a bit slimmer, but I still enjoy the design.The elf rider though... not a fan.
At least my repeated criticisms of products a company is offering for sale are on topic, unlike this latest pity party about how much of a big meanie I am. You want me to stop saying Mantic's products are gak? Tell them to stop making gak products.
I think you misunderstand. Nobody thinks your mean. Being mean can be funny, or righteous, or simply interesting. You are none of those things.
Your posts are boring, shrill, and repetitive. That doesn't make them mean. It makes them annoying.
there are plenty of interesting ways to critique a product. Why you insist on simply posting "Hey, another lousy mantic product!" is beyond me.
Don't forget - when the Trident Realms are released I'm sure we'll see another batch of posts about how he came up with the idea many moons ago and our implementation OBVIOUSLY sucks because we didn't listen to his ideas.
I may have to rework my numbers now. I may be able to field a much higher point value army than I initially thought. Hmmm....
That's not to say that 4 minis to a 6 man unit actually looks good - I find 5 to be the minimum that actually works, visually. But if you can make it work, go for it
Yeah definitely 5. 4 looks really, really sparse. Infantry you can kinda get away with 50%+1 if you go all out on the scenic basing but with Large Infantry it looks way too sparse even with excessive scenery.
Necros wrote: Can't wait to get my stuff.. between this and my Blood Rage goodies I'm gonna OD on plasticrack
Also trying to figure out how to set up my blood rage vikings as an Armies of Men army for KOW.. troops are easy enough, but not sure how to handle the giants/ogre sized minis. Was looking over the list last night and there's an option for a warbeast or something that looks to be on a chariot sized base, so maybe I can do the blood rage giants in pairs of 2 on 1 base as a kind of proxy? or would that look silly?
You might be able to use the Varangur list to good effect; they have lots of monsters. Alternately, the orcs list might be good too for giants and ogres/trolls. Either way though, you are probably going to need more models, as one set of BR won't have enough infantry even if you use the ~2/3 rule of thumb for how many bodies in a unit.
Is Varangur in the new book? I didn’t see that, but I was just kinda skimming. But yeah I was concerned about model count too. I was gonna buy a 2nd box when my FLGS gets it in stock. But, I was thinking I’d combine everyone with spears into a spearman unit, and another with all hand weapons. and do my units like that so there would be a bunch of guys different clan’s guys mixed together, and that would make for some more variety so they look better I was thinking I’d want to keep the clans together as separate units at first, but there’s only like 2 different poses so I was afraid that wouldn’t look as good. Either way as far as unit sizes go I figured I’d be using movement trays that are cut to the right size for the units and just sticking the round base minis on top, and also keep some dice for marking how many are in the unit or still alive. So I could start playing like that and add more minis in over time as I buy em.
It is in the new book, yea. They are the Warriors of Chaos analogues. Here is a good army builder with all the rules etc. (I am pretty sure it is up to date.)
Using properly sized trays and just putting men on them until you get the army list nailed down works just fine, as well as filler etc. The official numbers are in the new FAQ. I think the 2/3 rule works a lot better for the man-sized units than bigger stuff, but so long as the unit base sizes are correct, nothing else matters. Models are never removed, just points of sadness added. I think leaving a space or two on the unit tray empty to put the dice tracking those damage points is a good plan.
For the large infantry, I do think 5 is about the least you can have, unless they are big enough that they fill the 120x80mm tray pretty convincingly.
I think 4 could work if you staggered them a little too, and they were big and flaily, like 4 GW spawn models. A straight up diamond formation or flying V looks really odd though.
Ah, varangur are in the new book .. I kept flpping through the main book thinking I was blind But yeah just looking at the site I think they will work for the vikings. Probably a couple of regiments for the regular guys, and a couple of units of cave trolls. And I have all of the god models that could be used for chieftains, and mystics as skalds I guess? I'll have to see when I get the new book
as far as games go.. since I haven't played any yet.. is it generally better to go for full sized horde units or whatever the max would be? usually in WFB whenever I'd try bringing smaller units that I think will be more mobile they'd just end up being useless and/or dead quicker.
I think Regiments are a little more useful than Hordes. You pay a little more in points but generally get more attacks overall and a little more flexibility. I don't find the army construction benefits of Hordes to be really necessary. I almost always use Troops of ranged units too.
It seems to depend on the army too. Not that I have a ton of table experience, but running orcs it looks like you really need hordes, with double the attacks for less than double the price, as well as some abilities keying off of it. Then again, moving a foot wide unit across the table is irritating if there is any impassable terrain.
One thing that makes me nervous about regiments for squishier (worse than 4+ to kill) is that they are not too difficult to melt or waver with a good round of shooting. I might just suffer from crap rolls, but having a troop of Gore Riders waver and then get chased off the table subsequently by some skinks doing some minor shooting really put me off small units that are not just throw away screens.
The nice thing about running an ogre horde is it only consists of 12 figures, so I could feasibly get by with a whole ten guys.
Just wish I could find a local store to play at this wasn't staffed or frequented by the most frightening packs of basement dwellers I've met in quite a few years.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: The nice thing about running an ogre horde is it only consists of 12 figures, so I could feasibly get by with a whole ten guys.
Just wish I could find a local store to play at this wasn't staffed or frequented by the most frightening packs of basement dwellers I've met in quite a few years.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: The nice thing about running an ogre horde is it only consists of 12 figures, so I could feasibly get by with a whole ten guys.
Just wish I could find a local store to play at this wasn't staffed or frequented by the most frightening packs of basement dwellers I've met in quite a few years.
So I’m assuming the vandahur are all 25mm bases like gw chaos? I think the blood rage vikings are more like 20mm, but I’ll probably just order up some movement trays from litko or some place like that, but the solo guys will need a right sized base, but that's easy.
just based on the unit names alone… guessing the thralls are like regular troops (20mm?), and the bloodsworn are like big chaos warriors (25mm?)? I’d probably do them as couple regiments of bloodsworn cuz that sounds cooler, and probably mix the mystic minis in with them for spice.. or a magus conclave? Then a couple hordes of cave trolls, the wolfman mini could probably be a Cursed Son, Fenris could be a Devourer (cuz dogs devour things), and then I’ll have enough minis left over with the different gods and others to be cheiftains, skalds or maguses
Now I just have to find someone to play with….. or more like teach me how to play because I never remember the rules.
I really like the prospects of a nature army fed from bones 2 and some various other sources. I've got some trees that need rebased and maybe now they just need to be tree dudes...
Automatically Appended Next Post: With allies possibly from the herd list represented by my bones bugbears and gnolls. Plenty of giants too.
So, if I wanted to have a pure werewolf/wolf army, I would use The Herd? From the sounds of them, they're basically just Circle of Orboros with centaurs thrown in.
hmm.. I didn't think of that .. a herd army would be nice. And lucky me, I'm in the middle of making a whole bunch of my very own were-things for Blackwater Gulch. Can the herd have shotguns and colt 45s? guessing no, but the majority are going to be melee oriented models anyhoo.
So for KOW I'll be able to have goblin, lizard, viking and werethings armies. 4 armies for a game I haven't even played yet
Barzam wrote: So, if I wanted to have a pure werewolf/wolf army, I would use The Herd? From the sounds of them, they're basically just Circle of Orboros with centaurs thrown in.
Check that KOW2 easy army link. It sounds like Tharns would easily fit in. Lycans are very clearly listed in that army as well. They seem to be lacking in ranged weapons though. Some of the units have thrown weapons and that's about it.
Ogres make a pretty decent list for "all the big lycan things" I think. They even have shotguns for Necros The ogres lack regen abilities, but are just dead tough, which is about the same thing.
If you are rolling Tharn or Rackham wolfen/devourers they have weapons and armor in varying amounts which is pretty sweet. Plus the smaller things like female tharn and such can fit as Red Gobbos (although the number of models per unit will be low).
If you want bigger stuff, throwing in some allies isn't a bad idea. Or use the ogres as the allies.
Very reasonably priced! A few of us are seeing if the FLGS might order it (they've got the KoW rulebooks in stock now, and they stock very few game systems so really trying to step in for fantasy I think!). If not I'll order it myself... awesome how quickly they were able to get this together!
Are folks from the rules committee on here and able to comment on the lists at all? Here is the summary from the preorder page:
The heat shimmer that ripples above the parched earth does little to mask the horrors that lie assembled before you. You must focus on the task ahead. No plan survives contact with the enemy and the army you face is a howling, ravening horde of death that will test you to the limit. Today will be recorded in history but only one side will write it. Do you have the skill and courage to ensure it is you? Go. The time for war is now!
Welcome to Uncharted Empires, an Army Supplement book for Kings of War, the massed combat tabletop fantasy game set in the magical realm of Mantica. In this book, you are going to find:
- Nine brand new Kings of War armies giving budding generals a whole host of new options and dastardly tricks to outfox and out-fight their opponents, including The Brotherhood, Salamander Armies, The Herd, The League of Rhordia, The Trident Realms of Neritica, The Empire of Dust, Night-Stalker Armies, Ratkin Armies and the Varangur
- New special rules to further enrich your playing experience.
- Lots of new background information on all the armies and the units within them.
This is not a stand-alone game. A copy of Kings of War is required to use the contents of this book.
Anyone who successfully puts the resin Keldan hero together deserves a medal. Mines sword snapped in half when I tried to glue his arm on, I couldn't get the other sword blade to stick no matter what I did (literally no idea why they decided to make the blade separate) and I struggled to even attach the feet to the base.
Not particularly bothered as elves with swords aren't exactly hard to come by, but I take my hat off to anyone who manages to get it stuck together without any problems.
I haven't been following the KoW side of this too closely. I got a newsletter today that talked about a Salamander army. Is Mantic doing proper lizardmen or will it just be the actual Salamanders from DS spammed out?
I'm hoping for traditional lizardfolk plus some gangly troglodyte types. Anyone know what's what with this (including dates?)
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: The did a hard plastic sprue of salamanders (lizardmen) on one of their KS (same one as the abyssal, the KS after the DS one I think),
they are part of the nature faction with the naids (merfolk), but I don't think they're getting anything else?
Their Salamanders struck me as a little on the big sized, I assumed they were roughly an ogre-sized model. Is that not the case?
matt - That's the update I got.. about that book. I got the impression from that newsletter that it would be a full army but I don't know if that's a traditional full army or just a way to use 5x boxes of a regular salamander and call it an army. They did show a picture of a mounted lizard person though so I am hopeful that it'll be a full range.
Wehrkind wrote: The Salamanders have their own list coming out, which matches the GW Lizard Men lists pretty closely.
So base Salamanders are slightly larger than orcs... are they the rank and file or is there a slightly smaller unit? Presumably they'll also have an analog for skinks which might fit the bill for what I'm looking for with my hopes of a scrawny trog-like unit.
Banesword, thank you for that picture. That was really helpful
Kings of War Easy Army Builder says that there are big salamanders on 25x25 and Ghekkotah things on 20x20. Among all sorts of other stuff (large infantry and dinosaurs and burning things.)
Those lizards look pretty good. I've always been more of a skink kinda guy though, looking forward to seeing their version of em. I punish myself over and over again with horde armies. I tell myself I'll never be able to paint that much stuff, then buy it anyway.
I just got a dungeon saga add on for return of valandor all the sudden today.. haven't gotten the main game yet But the minis look a'ight so far. Hoping it'll be easy to learn so I can keep on turning my nephews into nerds.
So (according to that spreadsheet army list) the Geckos are the equivalents of Skinks.. which.. if they look like the Geico Gecko, that'll work for what I'm looking for.
Aye, the Salamanders look good, just if those are the Saurus level fighters, they're not what I'm after. I'm looking for something closer to the D&D lizardman.. for.. that exact purpose. It's fine if they don't though, when Bones 3 comes in, I'll have that covered and be able to use the Mantic Geckos hopefully for the Trogs I'm looking for. EDIT: Funny thought, those Salamanders almost look like they've got Tyranid plating. Conversion ideas are already starting to tumble around in my head.
Huh those really do look a *little* tyranid-like. Interesting. They're quite a bit bigger than those orcs too, probably still not ogre sized but pretty darn big for normal infantry. I guess that's what the 25mm bases are for.
GrimDork wrote: Huh those really do look a *little* tyranid-like. Interesting. They're quite a bit bigger than those orcs too, probably still not ogre sized but pretty darn big for normal infantry. I guess that's what the 25mm bases are for.
Yeah, looking at the army list, I'm hoping that the Corsairs..or..whatever they're called might be a regular semi-man-sized unit and that those are intended to be Kroxigor type elite soldiers.. That's what I'm hoping but I kinda feel like the more Mantic-knowledgeable people were trying to tell me otherwise... I'm not sure.
I mean, they're most likely meant to be 25mm based lizard men and not 40mm based lizardmen, as that's what they're on. If you have a bunch of smaller scaled lizard men though you may be able to sell the bulky salamanders as the kroxigor unit.
GrimDork wrote: I mean, they're most likely meant to be 25mm based lizard men and not 40mm based lizardmen, as that's what they're on. If you have a bunch of smaller scaled lizard men though you may be able to sell the bulky salamanders as the kroxigor unit.
I don't really know anything about Lizardmen in the GW sense. I am looking for them to use for RPGs. The 25mm vs 40mm thing is a bit lost on me, though thinking about ogres being on the larger bases for WHFB I suppose I see your point. Has Mantic been doing that? Not all of the creatures on 40mm bases in GW fill the whole base.. they kinda just put them there because they want them to rank up and it's easier. I have Ogre Kingdom Bulls on tiny bases.. maybe 20s or 25s for use in Heroquest. They wouldn't rank up but they stand on them just fine.
Anyway.. this is another answer that's not an answer.. Are you saying that these are likely the primary warriors and that outside of a smaller skink type unit and a larger kroxigor type unit, that this is pretty much it? Please don't read the tone wrong, I'm not upset, I'm just being super dense and trying to make sure I understand.
From what Ive observed they appear to analogue lizardmen saurus which are regular infantry but on larger bases due to bulk, bigger than men but not almost twice as tall like ogres are. The middle size.
But they are bulky, if the bones 3 lizardmen turned out to be weedy and small, you may be able to use salamanders as the big guys, but they'll never be as big as kroxigor/ogres/trolls, not from how it looks.
I'm not sure that anything else from Mantic for the lizardmen is a guarantee. They were apparently made originally for the Nature army list and got expanded to their own list with the apparent intent of having an army list for GW lizardman players to use. Given how many armies still have units where Mantic has no official figures and you're expected to go third-party, I would not hold my breath on more Mantic lizardmen.
GrimDork wrote: From what Ive observed they appear to analogue lizardmen saurus which are regular infantry but on larger bases due to bulk, bigger than men but not almost twice as tall like ogres are. The middle size.
But they are bulky, if the bones 3 lizardmen turned out to be weedy and small, you may be able to use salamanders as the big guys, but they'll never be as big as kroxigor/ogres/trolls, not from how it looks.
ah, that's what I was looking for. Sorry I was being dense..
BigOscar wrote: A lot of hot water treatment is going to be required though, predictably.
Only one of my weapons need the hot water treatment, the big guy with a spear. Must of got a good batch!
You must have. I've got a few breaks and about 50% of my figures are going to need the hot water treatment. Nevermind weapons - We're talking warped torsos, legs, the works.
As for these new releases, the Ogres and Zombie Trolls both look good. If they're priced reasonably (as in not approaching GW prices as Mantic seem to be headed to) then I'll probably get a couple of sets of each. The dragon... well I think it's perfectly fine for a boardgame miniature. It's a poor model for a wargaming model, though - and even worse with a rider perched awkwardly on the neck like that. Fat Dungeon Dragon is the answer, clearly. I actually like the Lammasu a lot more than the Dragon-with-rider version.
TheWaspinator wrote: I'm not sure that anything else from Mantic for the lizardmen is a guarantee. They were apparently made originally for the Nature army list and got expanded to their own list with the apparent intent of having an army list for GW lizardman players to use. Given how many armies still have units where Mantic has no official figures and you're expected to go third-party, I would not hold my breath on more Mantic lizardmen.
They have said that these are offically part of the kow background and if they prove popular they will expand the range, but not anytime soon, so there is the possibility that we'll be seeing more figures in the next few years.
I'm guessing December or January? I got an update from the KS saying they were planning on sending the KS armies for Abyss and Nature at the end of November, so presumably the retail release will follow shortly. You'd think they'd be aiming for christmas, but I'd be surprised if they don't miss that by a month
Since they are still sending out Dungeon saga and based on the 7th December date after which we can email and ask 'where's our stuff' I suspect this will slip into January at best
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh and facebook has just shown
Mantic Games
Look what just turned up in the warehouse! Time for some lunchtime reading, methinks...
I still haven't received anything for DS or KoW2, including Blaines or anything. I emailed Rich, he asked what I had ordered, I sent it to him, and like that *whoosh* ...he's gone.
Don't know if this has been talked about before, but... anyone knows what the hell is going on with Abyssal Dwarfs' Decimators? They were originally a part-plastic/part-metal kit of 10 models. Then they were redone in full plastic and came in a 20 models kit. Now it seems they're back to half-metal with 10 models, at their old price. I simply don't understand
Korinov wrote: Don't know if this has been talked about before, but... anyone knows what the hell is going on with Abyssal Dwarfs' Decimators? They were originally a part-plastic/part-metal kit of 10 models. Then they were redone in full plastic and came in a 20 models kit. Now it seems they're back to half-metal with 10 models, at their old price. I simply don't understand
Mantic changed their pricing to make a standard price for hybrid and restic infantry a while back, but it was the same figures.
They've now updated the metal bits, and gone back to a smaller, more expensive box.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I still haven't received anything for DS or KoW2, including Blaines or anything. I emailed Rich, he asked what I had ordered, I sent it to him, and like that *whoosh* ...he's gone.
My buddy usually just posts on Facebook directly to Ronnie about that kind of stuff.
Ronnie then 'yells' at whoever is responsible and they send him his stuff---often with additional stuff.
Can't hurt.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I still haven't received anything for DS or KoW2, including Blaines or anything. I emailed Rich, he asked what I had ordered, I sent it to him, and like that *whoosh* ...he's gone.
My buddy usually just posts on Facebook directly to Ronnie about that kind of stuff.
Ronnie then 'yells' at whoever is responsible and they send him his stuff---often with additional stuff.
Can't hurt.
This is happening way too much with Mantic. Either they are incompetent beyond belief, or one of their packers is relabeling stuff to get shipped to his own house. Either way they need a kickstarter to hire someone capable of sending stuff out and answering emails. Rich promised me that he was mailing my pledge out and then he went on vacation. Steve who took over for him while he was on vacation got my pledge and shipped it to me with an extra rolando and Blaine as an apology. They might write better rules than GW, but I'll take a good old mail order troll to Mantics box boys any day of the week.
Thraxas Of Turai wrote:I think your wires may have been crossed. Mantic have never released plastic Decimators, they have always been the hybrid kit.
I do believe they have had a minor resculpt with more embellished guns and a new head/helmet topper or two for 2015.
decker_cky wrote:
Korinov wrote: Don't know if this has been talked about before, but... anyone knows what the hell is going on with Abyssal Dwarfs' Decimators? They were originally a part-plastic/part-metal kit of 10 models. Then they were redone in full plastic and came in a 20 models kit. Now it seems they're back to half-metal with 10 models, at their old price. I simply don't understand
Mantic changed their pricing to make a standard price for hybrid and restic infantry a while back, but it was the same figures.
They've now updated the metal bits, and gone back to a smaller, more expensive box.
I see... I thought they had received the same treatment as the Inmortal Guard (the unit was fully redone in restic, although the command group still has metal parts). It's a pity because I was planning to get the 20-models box, but before spending 20€ for 10 hybrid models I'd rather buy another box of the Russian Alternative ones, full metal and higher quality for 5-6 more euros. *Edit: considering the current dollar-euro exchange rate, perhaps a bit more.
Also, it seems the Blacksouls have dissappeared from their catalogue.
If Mantic's really doing well from Kings of War sales now, they need to start a non-Kickstarter project to go through and once a month/quarter/whatever's viable and start development on a plastic core troop sprue for each army with restic core models.
Psychopomp wrote: If Mantic's really doing well from Kings of War sales now, they need to start a non-Kickstarter project to go through and once a month/quarter/whatever's viable and start development on a plastic core troop sprue for each army with restic core models.
ie, Abyssal Dwarves, Ogres, etc.
I agree 100%
Abyssal Dwarf combi-sprue to make Blacksouls, Immortal Guard, and Decimators would sell insanely well
Psychopomp wrote: If Mantic's really doing well from Kings of War sales now, they need to start a non-Kickstarter project to go through and once a month/quarter/whatever's viable and start development on a plastic core troop sprue for each army with restic core models.
ie, Abyssal Dwarves, Ogres, etc.
I agree 100%
Abyssal Dwarf combi-sprue to make Blacksouls, Immortal Guard, and Decimators would sell insanely well
I agree as well.
I want Abyssal Dwarves as my second, and first fully Mantic, KoW army, and I picked up two set of Lesser Obsidian Golems from a local store (although one set was missing a bunch of heads/feet, and I'm still waiting for a reply from Mantic on whether or not I can get replacement parts). But I'd like a Horde of Blacksouls, and right now the only option I have is getting a bunch of regular Dwarf infantry and painting them to match the rest of the army.
I've been long tempted by the Abyssal Dwarfs as well, and would love to see plastics to make the various types of infantry. Plus I could use them in Dungeon Saga and whatever other systems I feel like tossing them in.
As nice as it would be to see them fund new plastic kits on their own, I see no real reason for them not to dip back into the crowdfunding pool for an expense of that size.
Maybe once all their current projects are wrapped up we could see them...
If they do new abyssal dwarves I hope for a slight change in the art direction for them, but I won't hold my breath! I'm thinking of converting my Avatars of War Berserkers into "duregar" style evil dwarves with baldy heads and grey skin though.
I'm pretty sure I asked this before but forgot to check for an answer
Is there a good army list to use that would be a good counts as for Sigmarine models? I know they have the angely baselians or however it's spelled, but I wasn't sure if they were a good match.. maybe something more like ogres, since they're all bigger models on 40mm bases?
This is happening way too much with Mantic. Either they are incompetent beyond belief, or one of their packers is relabeling stuff to get shipped to his own house. Either way they need a kickstarter to hire someone capable of sending stuff out and answering emails. Rich promised me that he was mailing my pledge out and then he went on vacation. Steve who took over for him while he was on vacation got my pledge and shipped it to me with an extra rolando and Blaine as an apology. They might write better rules than GW, but I'll take a good old mail order troll to Mantics box boys any day of the week.
They've been working on four kickstarters this autumn and I can only say it shows. Poor show, Mantic.
Same issue here as Bob - kick them off an email every so often, more promises, no books.
Are we all supposed to have received our Dungeon Saga stuff by now? I only ordered a resin Blaine from that KS, but haven't got it yet. Is it time to email Mantic, or too early?
Has Dungeon Saga actually started arriving for any US backers yet? Haven't checked the comments lately. Shipping *was* supposed to start this week after all...
Cool, I'll do Sigmarine Ogres then. I was planning on sticking them on a movement tray and keeping them in 5-model units though but counting as horde sized, having 3 in the front rank, and 2 in the back with a spot in the middle for some dice to use for my wound counters. And then I guess units of Elohi for the sigmarines with flappy wings?
Is that kinda thing allowed? I skimmed the rules once, don't ever remember rules unless I play a lot
Necros wrote: Cool, I'll do Sigmarine Ogres then. I was planning on sticking them on a movement tray and keeping them in 5-model units though but counting as horde sized, having 3 in the front rank, and 2 in the back with a spot in the middle for some dice to use for my wound counters. And then I guess units of Elohi for the sigmarines with flappy wings?
Is that kinda thing allowed? I skimmed the rules once, don't ever remember rules unless I play a lot
Of course! 25% of your total build-cost may be spent on allies (assuming your event/group allows allies... but that is the official rule). At 2000pts, for example, your 3-man regiment of Elohi (winged guys), would also unlock a Hero slot, which could be your Paladin on Gryphon (Aka, Sigmar Drackon rider-guy). :-p
Necros wrote: Is that kinda thing allowed? I skimmed the rules once, don't ever remember rules unless I play a lot
And if you're talking about 5 models on a '6 model' horde base, you're cool there too
The FAQ has further specifics about needing 50% +1 models of the 'normal amount' of models to be totally kosher (so horde of large infantry = 4+), but I have a feeling there's even more leeway for modeling if needed. I've seen several "one really giant thing on a really big base" to rep things like mammoths that count as a horde of chariots, for example.
mattjgilbert wrote: Submit the form but I don't think they are processing any until the 7th December.
Really? I'm a little surprised, to be honest; I asked because I suspected contacting Mantic now would be premature, but I haven't kept track of the Dungeon Saga KS delivery as much as I usually monitor these things since I only bought the one item. I didn't want to create more bother for them if it's in the mail or hasn't even been posted yet.
But I respect that you're informed, and will follow your recommendation and email them. It's fine with me if processing takes awhile. Mantic have always responded to any missing / damaged item problems I've had, not always in a timely manner, but with patience they have always come through for me in the end. That's good with me.
@Anyone - I just noticed Mantic has stated they intend to re-open the DS pledge manager. Can anyone comment on the quality of the DS figures relative to Mars Attacks and Dreadball Xtreme? I'm currently only in for Blaine, but might be tempted to add more figures.
The update isn't clear about it opening the PM might just be to allow people to pay for shipping for the reprinted journal and they will offer the book boxes as well but it doesn't necessarily mean they will offer anything else this close to the retail release that might upset retailers
They will have a DS novel (yay), but confirmed Matt Gilbert's Adventure Books will be Digital (they even capitalized that word--boo!). Matt Gilbert, did you spill hot coffee on Ronnie's dog or something?
I can't believe Mantic is being so short-sighted about the adventure books. A novel's great and all (seriously, I am excited), but who else in the industry is doing adventure books? How easy would they be to upsell to DS customers, or suggest to Christmas box buyers as stocking stuffers? CMON can get their games into Barnes and Noble and other mainstream stores, but Mantic can't; adventure books would be much easier to use as a foot in the door that doesn't require a lot of shelf space.
I'm with Bob. I actually had added money for physical adventure books. I miss them! I really wanted them, and would gladly take them over the novel if given a choice.
I still was under the impression that the adventurer's companion was going to include all the KS adventures at one point. Seems like they're back tracking on that. Photo error my ass. I don't have the time to dig through the updates but I could have sworn they were all supposed to be in one giant tome of a book. If I can get another copy of the book for the cost of shipping to have on hand to share with other players, I don't see that as such a bad thing. I'll get another.
Still unclear on the whole book issue. When they open the PM, am I just paying for shipping if I want a new one, or am I paying an unknown cost for the book as well? Why not postpone it so they can include all those campaigns in print form as well? I don't get it.
I wonder if they'll let us get more resins in the PM?
judgedoug wrote: certainly they could at least be Print On Demand?
That would be a step forward and a good way to gauge interest. Adventure books just won't work the same way if you have to scroll through all the intervening pages instead of flipping past them, unless they put in a thousand hotlinks.
Plus, Mantic does not want to go into direct competition with MS Paint Adventures. They don't have the Pulchritude.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Highlord, it sounds like you get one (1) free book, so long as you pay $4 for shipping. I wonder if they'll let me buy one for $4, despite the fact that I did not pledge for any items that included books...
(I also think there'd be some pretty good mileage with going point and click style digital as and android/iOS app with some simple background art for the text/options too)
Necros wrote: Is that kinda thing allowed? I skimmed the rules once, don't ever remember rules unless I play a lot
And if you're talking about 5 models on a '6 model' horde base, you're cool there too
The FAQ has further specifics about needing 50% +1 models of the 'normal amount' of models to be totally kosher (so horde of large infantry = 4+), but I have a feeling there's even more leeway for modeling if needed. I've seen several "one really giant thing on a really big base" to rep things like mammoths that count as a horde of chariots, for example.
- Salvage
Honestly the 50%+1 is the absolute bear minimum regardless. The recommended is at least 66%, with general guidelines of 70-80% given by Mantic. 50%+1 should be viewed as the same "3 colours minimum" guideline for tournaments... The "leeway" is taking the general guidelines of 66%+ (70-80% recommended) down to 50%+1.
Remember that it is a mass battle regimental game. Yes, in-game the physical footprint of the unit are the thing that matters, but going down to 6 regular models representing 40 just does not mesh with the style of game that KoW represents. Fine when playing friendlies amongst friends (same as unpainted figures) but really people should be aiming for the recommended amounts, in exactly the same way as unpainted being fine for friendlies but realistically people should be aiming for the basic hobby level expected at events.
A Goon pledged for that, the literal brief for this mini was "Danny Glover, as a halfling, who joined the disc world night watch, with a big ass crossbow", and it's amazing
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Apparently a top-secret game was also shown behind closed doors, with people getting a glimpse claiming it will be Mantic's most runaway success ever.
I honestly wouldn't be shocked if it was the long-rumored, fantasy-skirmish game.
I wonder if that's the hinted-at next Kickstarter, supposedly a licensed post-apocalypse game of some sort.
A Goon pledged for that, the literal brief for this mini was "Danny Glover, as a halfling, who joined the disc world night watch, with a big ass crossbow", and it's amazing
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Apparently a top-secret game was also shown behind closed doors, with people getting a glimpse claiming it will be Mantic's most runaway success ever.
I honestly wouldn't be shocked if it was the long-rumored, fantasy-skirmish game.
I wonder if that's the hinted-at next Kickstarter, supposedly a licensed post-apocalypse game of some sort.
Fallout: The Tabletop Miniatures Game, will make them a fortune. :-p
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Apparently a top-secret game was also shown behind closed doors, with people getting a glimpse claiming it will be Mantic's most runaway success ever.
I honestly wouldn't be shocked if it was the long-rumored, fantasy-skirmish game.
A fantasy skirmish game is a long, long way off yet.
But yes, the game they saw will be Mantics biggest success by far. I'd put bets down on a minimum $1.5m Kickstarter and would give good odds on $3m+
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Apparently a top-secret game was also shown behind closed doors, with people getting a glimpse claiming it will be Mantic's most runaway success ever.
I honestly wouldn't be shocked if it was the long-rumored, fantasy-skirmish game.
I wonder if that's the hinted-at next Kickstarter, supposedly a licensed post-apocalypse game of some sort.
Fallout: The Tabletop Miniatures Game, will make them a fortune. :-p
If it really is going to be Fallout/Not-Fallout then me and the missus are prepared to pledge enough to get Ronnie that 3rd Roller he wants.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Apparently a top-secret game was also shown behind closed doors, with people getting a glimpse claiming it will be Mantic's most runaway success ever.
I honestly wouldn't be shocked if it was the long-rumored, fantasy-skirmish game.
A fantasy skirmish game is a long, long way off yet.
But yes, the game they saw will be Mantics biggest success by far. I'd put bets down on a minimum $1.5m Kickstarter and would give good odds on $3m+
Will the KS launch to the tune of, "I don't want to set the world... on fire...." ? ;-)
I've heard whispers from my Mantic friends that make me think of only two possible IPs, and either will see me pledging generously. ;-)
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Apparently a top-secret game was also shown behind closed doors, with people getting a glimpse claiming it will be Mantic's most runaway success ever.
I honestly wouldn't be shocked if it was the long-rumored, fantasy-skirmish game.
A fantasy skirmish game is a long, long way off yet.
But yes, the game they saw will be Mantics biggest success by far. I'd put bets down on a minimum $1.5m Kickstarter and would give good odds on $3m+
So it's a spaceship battle game? With 10mm scale vehicles? And space marines? A Specialized Game, you might say?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Will they let us pay for add ons and then drop them once they have our money, like they did with the printed adventure game books? Nothing says trustworthy like a company who lets us pay for stuff, closes funding, and then decides not to make what we paid for. Maybe Mantic should hire a new mascot: Palladium Prodos, the Seditious Warrior.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Apparently a top-secret game was also shown behind closed doors, with people getting a glimpse claiming it will be Mantic's most runaway success ever.
I honestly wouldn't be shocked if it was the long-rumored, fantasy-skirmish game.
A fantasy skirmish game is a long, long way off yet.
But yes, the game they saw will be Mantics biggest success by far. I'd put bets down on a minimum $1.5m Kickstarter and would give good odds on $3m+
Will the KS launch to the tune of, "I don't want to set the world... on fire...." ? ;-)
I've heard whispers from my Mantic friends that make me think of only two possible IPs, and either will see me pledging generously. ;-)
I was extremely surprised when I found out what it was
When do we find out? Or are we expected to enjoy months of coy teasing and vacuous hype before we can finally dismiss this next project as the half-hearted cash grab it will no doubt be?
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Apparently a top-secret game was also shown behind closed doors, with people getting a glimpse claiming it will be Mantic's most runaway success ever.
I honestly wouldn't be shocked if it was the long-rumored, fantasy-skirmish game.
A fantasy skirmish game is a long, long way off yet.
But yes, the game they saw will be Mantics biggest success by far. I'd put bets down on a minimum $1.5m Kickstarter and would give good odds on $3m+
Will the KS launch to the tune of, "I don't want to set the world... on fire...." ? ;-)
I've heard whispers from my Mantic friends that make me think of only two possible IPs, and either will see me pledging generously. ;-)
I was extremely surprised when I found out what it was
...So we've finally found out where that HH skirmish game gets made, now
This is basically the equivalent of the kid at school that claims to have seen the test paper, but refuses to tell anyone anything other than coy remarks
What it needs now is a 'bully' to flush them in the loos until they spill the beans (Alpharius?!)
Very exciting though, I wonder what the licence could possibly be to get this kind of response !
A Goon pledged for that, the literal brief for this mini was "Danny Glover, as a halfling, who joined the disc world night watch, with a big ass crossbow", and it's amazing
That is an amazing brief for the sculptor
That is quite simply the best brief for a sculptor I have ever seen
Alpharius wrote: I'm also hoping we find out soon so we don't get too many more "OMG I TOTES KNOW WHAT IT IS!" posts!
To be fair, actual NDAs are involved... but if experience has taught me anything... just ask Ronnie. :-p He loves to reveal stuff he isn't supposed to, right after telling people not to share said information. :-p
Someone in one of the facebook groups said 2 weeks
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Pacific wrote: This is basically the equivalent of the kid at school that claims to have seen the test paper, but refuses to tell anyone anything other than coy remarks
What it needs now is a 'bully' to flush them in the loos until they spill the beans (Alpharius?!)
Very exciting though, I wonder what the licence could possibly be to get this kind of response !
A Goon pledged for that, the literal brief for this mini was "Danny Glover, as a halfling, who joined the disc world night watch, with a big ass crossbow", and it's amazing
That is an amazing brief for the sculptor
That is quite simply the best brief for a sculptor I have ever seen
It's important to note that halfling is "too old for this gak" and "only 2 weeks away from retirement"
I just had a look at some close-up shots of Dungeon Saga figures, and they weren't looking too good, except for the ones in off-white color. The blue and red figures looked particularly boardgame plastiky.
I don't own the game, so I can't pull out the miniatures and see for myself. I'm curious if anyone here has both Dreadball Xtreme and Dungeon Saga, how do the figures compare? From photos, the Xtreme figures seem better, but pictures do lie.
(I do own Xtreme, and am happy with the quality. The Dungeon Saga figures in the photos are looking more like Mars Attacks quality to me currently.)
So going on the comments about the new releases being a '$1mil+. (or £1mil+?) franchise, possibly up to $3mil/£3mil' perhaps we could list what franchise could possibly be worth that?
Were the comments above about it being post-apoc accurate (that does limit it somewhat!)
Some of my own betting odds, were I a betting man
If Post-Apoc:
Fallout (4/1) - will this franchise still be worth so much in 3 months? Mad Max (8/1)
The Walking Dead (10/1) - not sure how this would work but would no-doubt be popular The Road (80/1) - The most depressing book I have ever read, god knows how it could be turned into a game Terminator (100/1) - Isn't it owned by Warlord Games? Franchise pretty much sunk now? Planet of the Apes (500/1) - Original/Charlton Heston version versus the new ones or nonsensical Tim Burton film?
Or if we're going outside of Post-apoc Star Wars (10/1) - Would definitely bring in the biggest bucks but is it even possible? Game of Thrones (15/1) - Great idea but how would this not compete with KoW though? Avatar/Prometheus (150/1)
Robotech (1000/1) - I'm running out of ideas now! Starman (1500)
Thraxas Of Turai wrote: $250,000 Stretch Goal: If we reach this stretch goal we will hire a team of proofreaders. Honest.
Lol. On this note, has their been any news on the Adventurer's Companion for Dungeon Saga? (It was mentioned that the wrong file had been printed and it was going to be re-published?)
Pacific: Yeah they've made a corrected PDF download available and will ship you a new copy once it is reprinted for the cost of postage.
I'm not sure if I'm bothered - the lack of page references doesn't bother me that much. I'm mainly disappointed that it's so sparse and bare bones. I think a lot of the material on the cards could have done with being reprinted in the book for completeness sake (also so that you still have access to it if your cards get lost or damaged)
Vermonter: Small plug, but I'm painting up my DS figures in the blog linked in my sig. Scroll down past the first post for pictures of the heroes and villains (blue and grey plastic).
The quality is mostly pretty good although a couple of figures have soft, shallow detail. This doesn't seem to be linked to the plastic colour though. All my heroes were pretty good, and the skeletons were also fine, but the zombies (also in white plastic) had soft detail. Some of my villains were perfect, but then Mortibris had slightly soft detail on his clothes, though the face came out alright. Valandor and Ba'el (both grey plastic) are the worst of the lot.
Overall I'm quite happy with the minis. I haven't painted any Abyssals yet but I will be getting to them soon.
[quote=Pacific 445605 8273373 469809b829be033071be4bb50371eb15.png
Star Wars (10/1) - Would definitely bring in the biggest bucks but is it even possible? Game of Thrones (15/1) - Great idea but how would this not compete with KoW though? Robotech (1000/1) - I'm running out of ideas now!
The Game of Thrones (tv) license is owned by Fantasy Flight Games. I think it's Darkworld Miniatures that has the Game of Thrones (book) license.
Robotech has already been released as a (poorly received) kickstarter. Apparently there's talk of the people who did it redoing it?
There already is a Star Wars skirmish game by Fantasy Flight Games called Imperial Assault. Overall, Fantasy Flight have been very successful with their star wars games and, all due respect to mantic, but there's no way that Disney would shift a license to them over FFG.
A "The Walking Dead" game would be the tipping point for getting the missus involved in miniatures. (Please no obvious jokes here please). I think that would be a bigger franchise than Fallout...? All speculation though, it will be very interesting to see where the next KS takes us.
I know there isn't a miniatures game for it yet so much, but there are several other licensed products for walking dead already, a card game for sure, and I thought I saw something else. But it *is* popular.
Robotech has already been released as a (poorly received) kickstarter. Apparently there's talk of the people who did it redoing it?
The people who did it haven't shipped wave 2 yet, are years late, have stopped giving out new information, and there is a very strong suggestion they've run out of money only halfway through the project. The company is the notorious Palladium Books.
Aside from which Robotech isn't massive or popular enough anyway, nor are Planet of the Apes, The Road (?), or honestly even Fallout. I've seen the property described as an absolute goliath and not small or obscure, post-apocalyptic, and a part of pop culture in 2015.
The Hunger Games sits with Mad Max and The Walking Dead more than any of the others there, but I'm positive the Walking Dead license is elsewhere.
So, I'm betting on a Mad Max or Hunger Games battle arena game, mostly because I don't want it to be zombies.
There's also the movie/books "Divergent", which is about as popular a do believe the next movie is due next year. (So Kickstarter could coincide). It has different factions, so that's better than hero versus army (hunger games) or the well played survivors against zombie horde.
Zombies would be kind of silly... I mean I know that black plague just did pretty well and all... but surely it's something else.
Isn't hunger games more dystopian than post apocalypse? I mean eventually both things are gonna get to the same place but you'd think if they wanted to tease hunger games they'd have said the other thing.
Maybe. I could do a skirmish, though playing a boardgame where children murder eachother to entertain the ruling caste and terrify the peasants seems kind of... awful
I forgot about that thing Theo just mentioned, that sounds a tad more plausible in terms of mechanics.
Do things like Hunger Games and Divergent really have a fanbase that is likely to overlap with wargaming? I don't see it, to me they are like Twilight, aimed at (mainly female) teens, are they really popular with wargamers? I can't see it, neither is particular interesting subject matter for models either.
I love Mad Max and hate The Walking Dead, but they would both make bad licensed games for the same reason: the license doesn't add value to the game. You don't need to pay George Miller for the right to make a game about people driving around in the desert shooting each other with up-gunned cars, not when it's actually happened in real life.
I'm not entirely sure why people are saying Fallout isn't popular enough. I'm in a medium sized town in England and the place has been completely bombarded with advertising, including full sized billboards, buses, bus stops, the works. Half the shows I watch on tv are 'sponsored by Fallout 4' and even the online shows I watch are fixated with it right now.
I have about 30-ish Steam friends. 16 of them own Fallout 4 on PC. It wouldn't surprise me if many of those who don't own it on another system.
According to Gamespot, it has grossed $750 million dollars in sales. - In other words, 3 times that of "Avengers: Age of Ultron" - according to Wikipedia anyhow.
Considering that Bethesda already have Season Passes for sale, it would be of no surprise if Bethesda intend a continuing public awareness of the brand where a miniatures kickstarter would come in handy.
If anything, a Fallout game might be *too* big for mantic.
Pacific, The Road and Terminator Genisys were joke suggestions. I really can't think of very many huge post-apoc franchises other than Mad Max, something with zombies, or Fallout (?). Personally, I'm over the entire post-apoc fad, and quite cross with Mantic's Really Unuseful kickstarter engine that caused such confusion and delay, so I kind of hope the new project falls on its ass.
Besides, you know Mantic is going to Mantic it up in the end.
Compel wrote: I'm not entirely sure why people are saying Fallout isn't popular enough. I'm in a medium sized town in England and the place has been completely bombarded with advertising, including full sized billboards, buses, bus stops, the works. Half the shows I watch on tv are 'sponsored by Fallout 4' and even the online shows I watch are fixated with it right now.
I have about 30-ish Steam friends. 16 of them own Fallout 4 on PC. It wouldn't surprise me if many of those who don't own it on another system.
According to Gamespot, it has grossed $750 million dollars in sales. - In other words, 3 times that of "Avengers: Age of Ultron" - according to Wikipedia anyhow.
Considering that Bethesda already have Season Passes for sale, it would be of no surprise if Bethesda intend a continuing public awareness of the brand where a miniatures kickstarter would come in handy.
If anything, a Fallout game might be *too* big for mantic.
I don't see much in the way of unique stuff that you'd get for a Fallout licence though? It's all pretty generic sci fi/ post apoc stuff, there aren't really any particularly stand out characters or factions that would grab peoples attention and the game itself doesn't exactly lend itself to board gaming or tabletop gaming. It would more just be a skirmish game that bares little resemblance to Fallout, set in the fairly generic Fallout universe?
Maybe I'm wrong, it might well have far more of a cult following than I'm giving it credit for and their could be a lot more interest in the different factions than I realise, but to me it doesn't have the obvious unique appeal of some other franchises I imagine if it was done well then it could work, but it doesn't look like an obviously succesful transition to me
Alex C wrote: Fallout is generic, non-characterful and lends itself poorly to tabletop?
If I wasn't at work right now I'd go into detail about why that is absolute nonsense.
I look forward to it, as for the life of me I can't think of anything non-generic about Fallout. I like the game, but I'm not seeing what it's actually come up with that's particularly new or different and I struggle to even remember any characters.
I also don't see how an RPG that's mainly about exploration and scavenging lends itself to a tabletop game. Would it be yet another skirmish game?
Like I said, I may well be overlooking things and it may have a lot of things that people think are unique or interesting. It's not a universe I'm particularly invested in, so I may well be overlooking things.
My own vote is for Mad Max as the likely game but, as to how Fallout could work...
You've got Supermutants, Brotherhood of Steel, Raiders, Enclave, NCR, Cesars Legion, Michael Dorn's mutant group plus a "Wasteland Settlers" faction (including the minutemen, Children of the Atom etc) as possible factions. And that's just off the top of my head from what I know from the last 2 games and the little I've played of Fallout 4.
The Fallout universe very much has its own style to it - the 1950's retrofuture which would give a characterful setting. And, hypothetically, allow them to use repackaged scenery kits from Mars Attacks (I think the scenery isn't necessarily part of the Mars Attacks license...)
Pacific wrote: This is basically the equivalent of the kid at school that claims to have seen the test paper, but refuses to tell anyone anything other than coy remarks
What it needs now is a 'bully' to flush them in the loos until they spill the beans (Alpharius?!)
Very exciting though, I wonder what the licence could possibly be to get this kind of response !
One that would quite possibly lose the license or break contract for Mantic if it gets widely leaked. I heard that there were NDA style agreements for previews, though that could be hyperbole.
Quite honestly I'm baffled why they did the preview, as its's trusting more than just spoiling a surprise. t's lovely that they do have that faith in the fanbase.
Compel wrote: My own vote is for Mad Max as the likely game but, as to how Fallout could work...
You've got Supermutants, Brotherhood of Steel, Raiders, Enclave, NCR, Cesars Legion, Michael Dorn's mutant group plus a "Wasteland Settlers" faction (including the minutemen, Children of the Atom etc) as possible factions. And that's just off the top of my head from what I know from the last 2 games and the little I've played of Fallout 4.
The Fallout universe very much has its own style to it - the 1950's retrofuture which would give a characterful setting. And, hypothetically, allow them to use repackaged scenery kits from Mars Attacks (I think the scenery isn't necessarily part of the Mars Attacks license...)
My point was more are any of those factions particularly unique? BoS and Enclave are humans in bulky power armour (hardly revolutionary, not even that far from Enforcers), Super Mutants are big bulky mutant people, not dissimilar to what Mantic already make for their Rebs DZ army. Raiders couldn't be much more generic. Ghouls aren't much more than zombies.
It seems to me like it would be far too similar to Deadzone? But like I said, I'm not as into the whole Fallout universe as some are, so who knows
Pacific wrote: This is basically the equivalent of the kid at school that claims to have seen the test paper, but refuses to tell anyone anything other than coy remarks
What it needs now is a 'bully' to flush them in the loos until they spill the beans (Alpharius?!)
Very exciting though, I wonder what the licence could possibly be to get this kind of response !
One that would quite possibly lose the license or break contract for Mantic if it gets widely leaked. I heard that there were NDA style agreements for previews, though that could be hyperbole.
Quite honestly I'm baffled why they did the preview, as its's trusting more than just spoiling a surprise. t's lovely that they do have that faith in the fanbase.
There was a guy blogging on another site that he had heard of an NDA also (unless that was you as well Buttery Commissar! )
I do think though that it was that serious an NDA (like the ones GW had with LoTR for instance), and they potentially faced losing a lisence that could net them $1-3mil, then Mantic probably wouldn't have done the preview.
Someone could just post the info from a sock-puppet account (in fact, I'm amazed it hasn't happened already)
Compel wrote: I'm not entirely sure why people are saying Fallout isn't popular enough. I'm in a medium sized town in England and the place has been completely bombarded with advertising, including full sized billboards, buses, bus stops, the works. Half the shows I watch on tv are 'sponsored by Fallout 4' and even the online shows I watch are fixated with it right now.
I have about 30-ish Steam friends. 16 of them own Fallout 4 on PC. It wouldn't surprise me if many of those who don't own it on another system.
According to Gamespot, it has grossed $750 million dollars in sales. - In other words, 3 times that of "Avengers: Age of Ultron" - according to Wikipedia anyhow.
Considering that Bethesda already have Season Passes for sale, it would be of no surprise if Bethesda intend a continuing public awareness of the brand where a miniatures kickstarter would come in handy.
If anything, a Fallout game might be *too* big for mantic.
I don't see much in the way of unique stuff that you'd get for a Fallout licence though? It's all pretty generic sci fi/ post apoc stuff, there aren't really any particularly stand out characters or factions that would grab peoples attention and the game itself doesn't exactly lend itself to board gaming or tabletop gaming. It would more just be a skirmish game that bares little resemblance to Fallout, set in the fairly generic Fallout universe?
Maybe I'm wrong, it might well have far more of a cult following than I'm giving it credit for and their could be a lot more interest in the different factions than I realise, but to me it doesn't have the obvious unique appeal of some other franchises I imagine if it was done well then it could work, but it doesn't look like an obviously succesful transition to me
You do know that the first two Fallout games (widely considered the best ones) were top-down and had grid- and turn-based combat right? There is even a Fallout Tactics game that was nothing but team-based tactical battles. A tabletop game would basically slot right in.
As for the setting, it's post-apocalyptic 1950s mixed with retro-futuristic technology. I can't even name one other franchise with a similar theme.
Compel wrote: I'm not entirely sure why people are saying Fallout isn't popular enough. I'm in a medium sized town in England and the place has been completely bombarded with advertising, including full sized billboards, buses, bus stops, the works. Half the shows I watch on tv are 'sponsored by Fallout 4' and even the online shows I watch are fixated with it right now.
I have about 30-ish Steam friends. 16 of them own Fallout 4 on PC. It wouldn't surprise me if many of those who don't own it on another system.
According to Gamespot, it has grossed $750 million dollars in sales. - In other words, 3 times that of "Avengers: Age of Ultron" - according to Wikipedia anyhow.
Considering that Bethesda already have Season Passes for sale, it would be of no surprise if Bethesda intend a continuing public awareness of the brand where a miniatures kickstarter would come in handy.
If anything, a Fallout game might be *too* big for mantic.
I don't see much in the way of unique stuff that you'd get for a Fallout licence though? It's all pretty generic sci fi/ post apoc stuff, there aren't really any particularly stand out characters or factions that would grab peoples attention and the game itself doesn't exactly lend itself to board gaming or tabletop gaming. It would more just be a skirmish game that bares little resemblance to Fallout, set in the fairly generic Fallout universe?
Maybe I'm wrong, it might well have far more of a cult following than I'm giving it credit for and their could be a lot more interest in the different factions than I realise, but to me it doesn't have the obvious unique appeal of some other franchises I imagine if it was done well then it could work, but it doesn't look like an obviously succesful transition to me
You do know that the first two Fallout games were top-down and had grid- and turn-based combat right? There is even a Fallout Tactics game that was nothing but team-based tactical battles. A tabletop game would basically slot right in.
As for the setting, it's post-apocalyptic 1950s mixed with retro-futuristic technology. I can't even name one other franchise with a similar theme.
The grid based games aren't where the popularity of the game is though is it? It would be a very small part of the fanbase that had any interest in that, it's the Oblivion style RPG that has led it to being what it is now and what the vast majority of people expect. Would they release it as a grid based game? Or would it be just Deadzone with Fallout gangs?
As for the setting, just because you combine two very popular settings doesn't mean it's unique. Post apocalyptic and Americana are both incredibly common settings, it's the Nazi Zombie book of originality. (I'm not criticising, as I like the game, but it's just not very unique to me)
I'm not interested in Fallout or Zombies, really, and the Fallout franchise is not something I'd call goliath - it's a niche game. Sure, it's pretty big for a niche game, but it's still a niche.
Call of Duty, Battlefront, League of Legends, GTA, WoW, and perhaps also Assassin's Creed and Starcraft, those are goliaths.
Pacific wrote: [There was a guy blogging on another site that he had heard of an NDA also (unless that was you as well Buttery Commissar! )
I do think though that it was that serious an NDA (like the ones GW had with LoTR for instance), and they potentially faced losing a lisence that could net them $1-3mil, then Mantic probably wouldn't have done the preview.
Someone could just post the info from a sock-puppet account (in fact, I'm amazed it hasn't happened already)
Apart form my Facebook where I chat wit friends on a closed account, this is the only place I post anything.
I was told that it would be more like if Company had given Mantic permission to do Game and three expansions, they may lose the ability to do the latter end of it. Cut short so to speak. It's not an area I know anything about.
Quite honestly I think unfinished product photographs and rules leaks would be the danger zone, permission and name association would be minimally damaging
Either way, you're right.
I've been thinking for a while that allowing this "we're doing a thing..." trickle does mean they get a good sense of what people want to see.
Yes, I think regardless what else you say about Mantic, they do genuinely seem want to improve what they are doing.
And when mistakes are made (in terms of what the fanbase want) it's more of a genuine mistake, rather than the 'we don't give a feth' type of mistake.
NTRabbit wrote: I'm not interested in Fallout or Zombies, really, and the Fallout franchise is not something I'd call goliath - it's a niche game. Sure, it's pretty big for a niche game, but it's still a niche.
Call of Duty, Battlefront, League of Legends, GTA, WoW, and perhaps also Assassin's Creed and Starcraft, those are goliaths.
NTRabbit wrote: I'm not interested in Fallout or Zombies, really, and the Fallout franchise is not something I'd call goliath - it's a niche game. Sure, it's pretty big for a niche game, but it's still a niche.
Call of Duty, Battlefront, League of Legends, GTA, WoW, and perhaps also Assassin's Creed and Starcraft, those are goliaths.
Fallout will be outselling Battlefront and Assassin's Creed by a wide margin this year, world-wide, so you might want to reconsider what you call "niche".
Thanks to Skyrim blowing up in the "dude-bro" community, Bethesda open-world games are now EVENT-level releases that other publishers actively avoid releasing around.
Fallout is the only post-apocalyptic license I'd find interesting and spend money on. That doesn't mean it's the license that would sell the best etc.
I need to expand my collection into yet another genre like I need a hole in the head, though, so Mad Max, Walking Dead, World War Z, anything other than Fallout would be great, as I can ignore them completely.
Personally I doubt Mantic is doing Fallout - In my opinion it's the obvious choice, and I believe it would find a very enthusiastic audience among people who actually buy and play games.
That's why Mantic won't be doing it; it just makes too much sense.
Huh. You know what I think it is? Defiance. That would be classic Mantic for me: A property I don't care a whit about, but that has enough cool armor / monster designs that it would probably lure me in to pledging anyway (like Mars Attacks.) I can't say I'd be thrilled with it, but I'd follow the KS to see what models came out of it.
Oh, and if Defiance counts as a juggernaut or whatever, what a sad world we live in.
I would back a fallout KS but I don't think mantic has the license for that. Otoh, I didn't think we'd see an AVP KS either so maybe it might be fallout. It's certainly the only post apoc thing I can think of that would hit 1.5-3m
I'm in the minority here as I haven't played a game of fallout....ever, so it is an easy miss to me. Madmax I could possibly go in $1 for to get the rules but Mantic is a buy at retail for me from now on due to their "service".
Compel wrote: According to Gamespot, it has grossed $750 million dollars in sales. - In other words, 3 times that of "Avengers: Age of Ultron" - according to Wikipedia anyhow.
you're looking at the budget
Avengers Age of Ultron grossed one point five billion dollars
Compel wrote: According to Gamespot, it has grossed $750 million dollars in sales. - In other words, 3 times that of "Avengers: Age of Ultron" - according to Wikipedia anyhow.
you're looking at the budget
Avengers Age of Ultron grossed one point five billion dollars
Still pretty crazy considering Fallot 4 has been out for a week. Bethesda games have looooong legs so I wouldn't be surprised if it surpassed Ultron eventually.
I just saw this on one of the Mantic FB fan pages: some nice transfers to fit Mantic shields. I will pick up some for my Orcs after the holidays, I think.
Is all that weathering and battle damage part of the transfer or painted on after?
They look REALLY good and kinda put the GW ones to shame, I'm not sure I believe they will look like that without painting the scratches and the dirt on over them.
I looked at Little Big Men online store, and the transfers appear to be more like temporary tattoos than waterslide transfers like most of us are used to. I suspect all that weathering is actually on there.
There was an NDA to sign at the open day if you got the lucky ticket to see the game and have a play. We were told it would be announced close to Christmas with hints running up to it, then more previews in new year building up to KS. I'd echo what others have said - this will be crazy good on KS and has more potential than anything they have done , especially in terms of bringing new people into games using miniatures.
Why has no one openly blabbed ? I guess outside of people working on it and publications with a preview that fans are honouring what they were asked. Mantic has supported the club I go to several times with various stuff despite it only being small, and whilst they have had some bad KS related stuff, Ronnie makes an impression on you in person , so they deserve good will!
The LBM shield transfers are kinda a mix between a water slide transfer and a sticker. The historical ones suggested painting the surface underneath them white; I personally didn't (left them silver) and it still worked OK...just a bit darker.
You basically peel off the front, and apply it like a sticker, then soak the sticker on the model and the other side of the backing slides off. Honestly easier to use than water slide transfers imo...
So yes, the weathering and such translates well.
Regarding the next project...is everything they launch just planned to be on kickstarter now? Do they still make figures without kickstarter? Like for example, the planned Nightstalker line....are we just expecting that to be kickstarter too? I don't know why that thought makes me irrationally angry, but it does :(
No, they're releasing a fair amount of Kings of War stuff right now that wasn't Kickstarted, but I'd imagine that they'd almost always use Kickstarter to launch new product lines & versions because:
1) It is a big, wide-reaching but relatively inexpensive, marketing campaign.
2) It gives a large concentrated amount of funds during the stage of product development where these funds are most needed, again fairly inexpensively.
Commissioning sculpting and making rubber moulds for 10 different new metal models is relatively inexpensive. Creating tooling and booking Chinese factory time for 50 different plastic moulds for a new product line is not!
piperider361 wrote: The LBM shield transfers are kinda a mix between a water slide transfer and a sticker. The historical ones suggested painting the surface underneath them white; I personally didn't (left them silver) and it still worked OK...just a bit darker.
You basically peel off the front, and apply it like a sticker, then soak the sticker on the model and the other side of the backing slides off. Honestly easier to use than water slide transfers imo...
So yes, the weathering and such translates well.
Regarding the next project...is everything they launch just planned to be on kickstarter now? Do they still make figures without kickstarter? Like for example, the planned Nightstalker line....are we just expecting that to be kickstarter too? I don't know why that thought makes me irrationally angry, but it does :(
Interesting. Any photos? I was also intrigued by them and would like to see them on actual minis.
Anyone know if the transfers are going to be mantic store exclusive or if they are going to be available at retailers? The orc ones looks very neat, I´m surprised though that there aren´t any undead ones considering the popularity of the undead minis.
If guess there are no undead ones because the undead shields are too irregular. Theyve got gashes, pieces broken off... trying to fit those transfers onto them seem like itd be pretty difficult. And having one transfer for each specific shield would mean even more clones than you get already.
So yea, my copy of uncharted empires came in and Im looking at it right now. The new armies are interesting, though the merman one seems kinda out of place but thats just me
I no longer own any figures with them on, but here is a semi decent shot of them on my old SAGA Bretons.
This is over the silver background, not the recommended white, so they are a little darker than they should have been. Also they were the wrong size for these figures, so I hand trimmed them down, hence the semi rough edges. But you can see the weathering (scratches) came through just fine, and I didn't do anything special to them.
Bioptic wrote: No, they're releasing a fair amount of Kings of War stuff right now that wasn't Kickstarted,../quote]
I'd be interested in what those non-KS items are.
for those interested in mantics progress from the latest newsletter
Dungeon Saga: SOLD OUT!
Having shipped all the games to our Kickstarter backers, we have shipped more than twice that number of copies again to all of our web pre-orders and retailers. That means that all 15,000 copies we originally ordered have gone, and Dungeon Saga: The Dwarf King’s Quest is officially sold out!
which for any sort of boardgame is a big success. They've got a tiny 500 copy top up coming in Jan (presumably the 'cover' for damaged/missing stuff rather than a real re-order). It's going to be interesting to see how this goes after than, and whether all/most of the store and website copies sell through and lead to re-orders
My brother did Dungeon Saga and four of us played the first three scenarios last night.
It's really really good. Don't want to say great, just in case something stupid happens, but I went from vague interest to really enjoying myself.
It's definitely HeroQuest + Advanced HeroQuest in spirit and ease of mechanics. Anyone looking for a Descent tactical combat game is going to be sorely disappointed.
A Goon pledged for that, the literal brief for this mini was "Danny Glover, as a halfling, who joined the disc world night watch, with a big ass crossbow", and it's amazing
Anyone know if this will be seeing general manufacture, or even be available via Mantic Points?
Because I now have three people that want that figure - four if you count me.
Very quick to play through (we play games on a school night, which you can't really get away with with Descent).
Also, because it's quite straightforward, it's largely immune to the predilections of that friend who always manages to read the rules upside-down and find some funny beardy loop-hole that no-one else has thought of.
Pretty sure they will eventually, even if only for Mantic points and without an actual clampack - all of the "create your own" minis from KoW 1E (Ur Elohi Julius and Samacris, Keris and Shaarlyot plus dogs), and Dreadball (Drake and the Dynamic Dinoborg, Thunnder Chris, and The Veteran) are on the Mantic Store, unless I've missed some. The Elohi and DB MVPs are even available from retail stores.
judgedoug wrote: My brother did Dungeon Saga and four of us played the first three scenarios last night.
It's really really good. Don't want to say great, just in case something stupid happens, but I went from vague interest to really enjoying myself.
It's definitely HeroQuest + Advanced HeroQuest in spirit and ease of mechanics. Anyone looking for a Descent tactical combat game is going to be sorely disappointed.
Playing the next few scenarios tomorrow!
Two players at the FLGS backed the KS and we got to play a couple of scenarios today.
The gameplay was decent from the little bit we played.
The components were likewise good. The rulebook had quite a few errors as the owners of the games were quick to point out.
Privateer Press has its Page 5.
Mantic has its Page XXX.
Several references to the reader to turn to "Page XXX" scattered throughout.
In the section on races, the Salamander (IIRC) description was cut and pasted into another race's description on another page.
There was also some loose sheet in the table of contents, which we assumed was to address errors/omissions there.
One of the guys who brought his DS set in said Mantic was offering an edited version to backers.
He had been told that it would cost him around $4 to get the replacement.
Those are wellknown though. I think what confused Matt was your reference to the rulebook. Youre talking about the adventurers companion, the rulebook is the one in the base game.
And yeah, theres a fixed version coming. But because its an issue affecting *every* backer, its get very expensive for Mantic. As it is, youll have to pay for shipping. Retail customers arent affected though.
Tyr13 wrote: Those are wellknown though. I think what confused Matt was your reference to the rulebook. Youre talking about the adventurers companion, the rulebook is the one in the base game.
And yeah, theres a fixed version coming. But because its an issue affecting *every* backer, its get very expensive for Mantic. As it is, youll have to pay for shipping. Retail customers arent affected though.
Yeah. I had heard the book had errors like the Page XXX. I just hadn't seen it in the flesh.
My friend who had commented on the $4 said that was for Mantic to ship the book to him.
The replacement book is effectively free but Mantic aren't going to cover the shipping.
EDIT: The rulebook that had errors was the hard cover one, which is what I think Tyr is saying is the adventurer's companion.
Yep. The AC *does* contain the core rules, but the actual rulebook is one of the thinner leaflets in the core box. And that version doesnt have any errors. Or at least none that Im currently aware of.
Does anyone knows when the Uncharted Empires book gonna be released? I though it should came in November, but i just can "pre order" the book on the Mantic HP.
Uncharted Empires is certainly out, as Barzam got one in a random Kings of War order that he never made, with an invoice cost of $0.00.
That was odd.
Looking at the ratkin artwork in the book makes me wonder if Mantic would ever consider making a sprue of fantasy weapons for their Veermyn to turn them in to Ratkins.
I guess we'll see how well they compare size- wise to Skaven when Infestation is released. If the plastics are similarly sized it could make for some interesting conversions.
Played the next couple of scenarios. The one with the Undead Troll was tough the first time through, we lost. Second time through was a lot easier. There's definitely a synergistic learning curve for getting your heroes to work together.
However, the Banshee scenario was a breeze - either that or we just did everything perfectly. I suspect that's more for a "here's how an evil hero works, and here's how these ghosts work" as the first three normal game scenarios definitely have the ramping-up-to-learn-all-the-rules feel. Looks like the next scenario is gonna be really fun though, with the environment hazards.
Paintalist wrote: Does anyone knows when the Uncharted Empires book gonna be released? I though it should came in November, but i just can "pre order" the book on the Mantic HP.
A local player in New Mexico ordered one from our FLGS and had his book in hand yesterday.
Paintalist wrote: Does anyone knows when the Uncharted Empires book gonna be released? I though it should came in November, but i just can "pre order" the book on the Mantic HP.
A local player in New Mexico ordered one from our FLGS and had his book in hand yesterday.
My FLGS got some in stock last week. Have had my copy in hand since then...
Tyr13 wrote: Those are wellknown though. I think what confused Matt was your reference to the rulebook. Youre talking about the adventurers companion, the rulebook is the one in the base game.
And yeah, theres a fixed version coming. But because its an issue affecting *every* backer, its get very expensive for Mantic. As it is, youll have to pay for shipping. Retail customers arent affected though.
Yeah. I had heard the book had errors like the Page XXX. I just hadn't seen it in the flesh.
My friend who had commented on the $4 said that was for Mantic to ship the book to him.
The replacement book is effectively free but Mantic aren't going to cover the shipping.
EDIT: The rulebook that had errors was the hard cover one, which is what I think Tyr is saying is the adventurer's companion.
Ah, ok. Yes the errors in the AC are known. I hadn't heard about any in the book that comes with the game which is what I thought you meant.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Uncharted Empires is certainly out, as Barzam got one in a random Kings of War order that he never made, with an invoice cost of $0.00.
As far as I know, Barzam had placed an order for a sprue of Salamanders. That's it.
Ended up with all the printed materials and counters from the Kings of War Kickstarter campaign as well, including that Uncharted Empires book. As far as he knows, he had put in for a buck and upped it in the PM for the salamanders.
Demons, actually. I haven't really had a chance to contact them about that. But yeah, I'd done a $1 pledge and upped it in the pledge manager for a sprue of demons and their metal hero. I really don't recall adding any printed material or counters. It was so long ago that I'm not entirely certain, but I'm pretty sure I didn't pledge for those items. Is there any way to check that? I'd like to be sure before I contact them.
I also still don't have my missing Dreadball stuff. I got all hopeful it was my missing stuff when that KOW box arrived.
If it makes you feel better, I pledged the base plus two mega armies, and I still haven't gotten my counters or the bulk of the movement trays I pledged for.
It's not like this game requires trays or counters or anything...
So, I was finally able to confirm what I had pledged for. All I pledged for was the Lower Abyssals regiment and the Abyssal Champion. My grand total was $27. I'd like to know how I wound up with a completely different order. I've contacted them. We'll see if I get a response and how long it takes.
After Chinese customs decided to keep 10, 000 lower abyssal sprues for 6 weeks we ordered them again - and flew them in instead of the boat route. They have arrived smile emoticon
At end of this week or early next all the Abyssal and Forces of Nature KoW armies ship to KS backers with the Destiny of Kings book.
It was supposed to have been based off of the Obsidian Golem, but I don't even know what the final art looks like.
Last I saw it was kind of kaiju- like with a tail and everything...
The greater earth elemental is the Greater Obsidian Golem with an arm and head swap. I haven't seen pictures of the elemental head or arms, but if you go look at the golem you'll get a pretty good idea about the elemental.
It's a weird aesthetic choice isn't it? Maybe they thought they it appeal to the Warmahorde demographic or something?
It does seem like they might have came to their senses lately as the newly released zombie trolls is much better proportioned than their living counterparts.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: My Black Fortress tiles came with all my stuff that was shipped directly from Mantic.
I have NEVER gotten the stubby leg aesthetic, from any company. Why? What's the purpose?
Hate it on the Trollkin, hate in on the all the jacks, hate it on the Ogres, hate it on most sculpts in general...
For Warmachine I have a feeling it was supposed to evoke the idea of an American Football Player, the jack silhouette. I could be completely misremembering that of course. Hence the emphasis on upper body, most noticeably the shoulders.
Also, I was told by someone who is in a place to know, that essentially Matt pitched the idea of a competitor to 40K but more (more!?!) medieval to Wizards when he worked for them, but they rejected it. Hence the large shoulderpad aesthetic. The core vibe was medieval Space Marines. Again, this may be hearsay, but the person who told me is someone who would know.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: I have NEVER gotten the stubby leg aesthetic, from any company. Why? What's the purpose?
Hate it on the Trollkin, hate in on the all the jacks, hate it on the Ogres, hate it on most sculpts in general...
Don't like it either. I especially hate it in anime - any character that's not a frail effeminate waif is an overmuscled mountain with short stubby legs.
Mantic have just started shipping Wave 2 of the KoWks
We expect to have all of the packages out of the building by the 31st December, and expect them to have all arrived before the 25th January 2016.
Please wait until Monday 25th January 2016 for your package to arrive before emailing in asking where your order is, or submitting a missing items form.
(they seemed to get missing item forms for wave 1 Before the first date when people were asked to send them in, and lots of forms about stuff that was never meant to have been sent so please be careful, the more 'junk' forms they have to get through the harder it is for them to be on top of the real missing item.... which because its manitc there are lots of)
the wave 2 list
Forces of the Abyss Abyssal Champion Metal
Forces of the Abyss Abyssal Fiend Resin
Forces of the Abyss Abyssal Iffrit Metal
Forces of the Abyss Abyssal Molochs (3 figures) Metal
Forces of the Abyss Abyssal Succubi Regiment (20 figures) hard Plastic
Forces of the Abyss Lower Abyssal Regiment (20 figures) Hard Plastic
Forces of the Abyss Mega Starter Army Hard Plastic/Metal
Forces of the Abyss Starter Army Hard Plastic Forces of the Abyss Dice Set Dice
Forces of Nature Druid Metal
Forces of Nature Centaur Hero Metal
Forces of Nature Naiads (20 figures) Hard plastic
Forces of Nature Salamander (20 figures) Hard plastic
Forces of Nature Starter Army Hard plastic
Forces of Nature Mega Starter Army Hard plastic/Metal
Forces of Nature Dice Set Dice
Basilean Lord on Dragon Hard plastic/Metal Elf King on Dragon Hard plastic/Metal
Abyssal Dwarf Supreme Ironcaster on greater winged abyssal Hard plastic/Metal
Campaign Character Pack Valandor + Ba'el Hard Plastic
Kings of War Campaign Book Softback Book Digital Copy of
Campaign Book Digital (Living Legend and above, if you qualify you should get an email link within 24hrs)
The elementals were a wave 1 release, if you ordered extras you got a combination greater obsidian golem/ earth elemental kit. The ones included in the armies arrive in wave 2.
Well, I still haven't heard anything back about what's going on with my stuff, so I went ahead and submitted a missing item form explaining what happened. Hopefully this was some sort of apology for my missing DBX stuff and I will still be getting my Abyssals (and with luck, my DBX stuff).
Barzam, Have you contacted on Facebook? My buddy backs Mantic KS's regularly and he's found Ronnie Renton gets things done when messaged there. Not defending that process as the model for customer service but it's helped my buddy get the stuff he's paid for.
Legs are very tiny, I'm not a fan of that aesthetic--however--if you're going to use it then some kind of chunky earth elemental/golem is probably the best place. Those kinds of things tend to run chunky and this wouldn't be the only example of one with chunky legs, surely (though I can't bring too many examples to mind just this moment, of either kind).
Tiny legs don't bother me for gaming pieces, because you almost never view them head on. You are almost always looking down at gaming models, which means the upper body is far more important.
Nothing wrong with pointing out an aesthetic choice you don't like, of course, but I have zero problems with stubby legs in models for gaming.
privateer4hire wrote: Barzam, Have you contacted on Facebook? My buddy backs Mantic KS's regularly and he's found Ronnie Renton gets things done when messaged there. Not defending that process as the model for customer service but it's helped my buddy get the stuff he's paid for.
Yeah, I did. I got a reply that they would look into it and received no further contact, even when I asked for a follow-up on facebook. I got an email from Dave Symonds or whatever his name is that they were sending out my stuff about a week or so later. And then I received that KOW box.
privateer4hire wrote: Barzam, Have you contacted on Facebook? My buddy backs Mantic KS's regularly and he's found Ronnie Renton gets things done when messaged there. Not defending that process as the model for customer service but it's helped my buddy get the stuff he's paid for.
Yeah, I did. I got a reply that they would look into it and received no further contact, even when I asked for a follow-up on facebook. I got an email from Dave Symonds or whatever his name is that they were sending out my stuff about a week or so later. And then I received that KOW box.
That golem is fugly as hell, but I said that when they released it. It's not just the legs, the head is really oversized and it is lacking in texture detail.
That Gamefan is still a thing, or that Golem was actually released to retail.
I look at that Golem and I see the potential for some sort of Trollkin sculpt there. The big rocky outgrowths on the back, giant arms, tiny legs... I ought to see if I have any spare dire troll heads laying around.
That model is just so bad. On so many more levels than just missing leg day. I am simply astonished that Mantic actually chose to release this model without someone stopping it along the way.
NinthMusketeer wrote: That model is just so bad. On so many more levels than just missing leg day. I am simply astonished that Mantic actually chose to release this model without someone stopping it along the way.
warboss wrote: Did they previously post concept art of it to compare with the finished product?
Kickstarter updates #27 and 28 had sketches of the model, it is pretty well a match for the artwork. There was even chat in the comments section about "leg day" that I remember.
You know, if you added some rocks to it, you could make it look like it's coming out of a rock pile or something. Then it wouldn't be quite so... Mantic. Or maybe give it a few more legs. Like some kind of rock golem centaur thing.
Da Boss wrote: That golem is fugly as hell, but I said that when they released it. It's not just the legs, the head is really oversized and it is lacking in texture detail.
That's one of the two Golem heads, it has little teture because it's a giant iron helmet rather than the stone golem head.
Spoiler:
The one on the left is the golem head, and is just fine on textures. Enough to show it's stone, not so much that it becomes a hassle to paint..
NinthMusketeer wrote: That model is just so bad. On so many more levels than just missing leg day. I am simply astonished that Mantic actually chose to release this model without someone stopping it along the way.
I'm planning to buy the Elemental version at retail, I quite like it. I really don't see why some people find it bad, but then, I love the Mantic Ogres and Elves, and plenty of people hate them as well. It's all subjective.
warboss wrote: Did they previously post concept art of it to compare with the finished product?
Kickstarter updates #27 and 28 had sketches of the model, it is pretty well a match for the artwork. There was even chat in the comments section about "leg day" that I remember.
Thanks for the clarification. It looks like those previews (linked below) happened before funding so it isn't a case of bait and switch that Mantic for better or worse has been known for in the past. They're close enough to the art.. the legs are *even* smaller than previewed but reasonably close. That would be my potential issue moreso than an ugly model.
As well you should. If I had bought a Xmas present and the sign said buy one get one free then you should get one free. Quoting one part of one sentence in a post and changing the subject to something completely unrelated is weird, right?
Were you a financial backer during preproduction for the 1984 movie? I didn't see your name in the credits but I admit I didn't look too closely or even know your name last time I watched. If not, I'm not sure how it applies to my post. If you did back the movie financially in your childhood and they changed the actual look significantly then you have a right to be upset. Also, kudos on having such business smarts at such a tender age.
Just an FYI, I did flat out state that this isn't a case of bait and switch on Mantic's part so you may have your shield setting accidentally on 11 pinging false alerts on posts just with the presence of the words.
warboss wrote: Did they previously post concept art of it to compare with the finished product?
Kickstarter updates #27 and 28 had sketches of the model, it is pretty well a match for the artwork. There was even chat in the comments section about "leg day" that I remember.
Thanks for the clarification. It looks like those previews (linked below) happened before funding so it isn't a case of bait and switch that Mantic for better or worse has been known for in the past. They're close enough to the art.. the legs are *even* smaller than previewed but reasonably close. That would be my potential issue moreso than an ugly model.
They're not identical as the legs are noticeably smaller but the overall design is close enough to still be considered reasonably faithful overall to the concept art IMO. I'm not a backer though so I've got nothing to lose/gain but I'm also not a fan of the golem skipping leg day look (hence my post). At this point, if you're a big boy with your big boy pants (meaning you do your 5 minutes of google research on a company before KS backing), you shouldn't be surprised with this type of stylized mini.
Looks to me more like the person making the model glued it together wrong. If the arms were glued downwards I don't think it would look quite so ridiculous with legs. More gorilla like and matching the concept art.
The choice of arm positioning there definitely doesn't help it. Mine will be gorilla posed and having seen some like that I'll be quite happy with them.
Will be happy if Mantic move away from tiny legs generally though.
I'm afraid Ronnie & co watched too many looney tunes cartoons as a child
so this is their idealised tough guy
tiny legs are here to stay
Automatically Appended Next Post: Want to help Mantic with QC ?
DS Reprints
Posted on December 21, 2015 by Quirkworthy
Mantic asked me today if there were any bits that needed correcting in RoV or AC. I said we should ask you guys, so here I am
The instructions on what sort of thing they’re after was: “We’re looking for typos and incorrect rules more than anything, like the Shield bash special rule being on the card but not in the book, or any wrong symbols on the cards.”
And, before you ask, they need to know any corrections by midnight GMT on the 23rd. Not long then.
So, if you have the time and the inclination, please take a look and let us know. In particular, as AC has already had quite a lot of comment, it would be good to hear if anyone’s been through RoV and found anything amiss.
No, but I take it I'm the only one who understands development processes.
I prefer to have a firm grasp on integrity. The development process should change further when you add in taking customers' money upfront months to years in advance with no refunds. You want to sow your wild creative oats and have the freedom to suddenly change the final product significantly from what was previewed? Sure! Just don't take the money so far in advance or offer full refunds if you do change it. Again, that isn't the situation in THIS case but it certainly is a repeating trend with mantic (both in designs and material) which is why I initially asked.
Barzam wrote: You know, if you added some rocks to it, you could make it look like it's coming out of a rock pile or something. Then it wouldn't be quite so... Mantic. Or maybe give it a few more legs. Like some kind of rock golem centaur thing.
I was thinking about having it wading through the earth, leaving a trough of chewed up dirt in its wake.
But, in the end, I think that I would use the Reaper Bones Greater Earth Elemental, who also has Tiny Leg Syndrome... but I that already own.
I was thinking I’d want to keep the clans together as separate units at first, but there’s only like 2 different poses so I was afraid that wouldn’t look as good. Either way as far as unit sizes go I figured I’d be using movement trays that are cut to the right size for the units and just sticking the round base minis on top, and also keep some dice for marking how many are in the unit or still alive. So I could start playing like that and add more minis in over time as I buy em.
, Next you'll say 
