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Post by: GrimDork
It's probably better for sales if they keep the angle as it is 
Or not, he may have a really well sculpted face, I'm just feeling sassy tonight.
I dunno if I *love* that demon dude, but if I end up with a horde of the others via an army deal or something I'd probably get him. He seems to match them pretty well so the blending of the units would be worth it for me. But I wouldn't touch it for 40 bucks. (phrasing!) 25, maybe.
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Post by: Mort
I find the big demon-critter to be pretty average, really. Not terrible, but not breathtaking, either. Personally, the little dudes standing around him look much better. Then again, I don't (and won't) play that faction, so it doesn't really matter to me personally anyway.
But if I -did- play that faction, I'd take that one person's advice and use the LotR Balrog fig instead, which I do own. Awesome fig, far more impressive, to me anyway.
Still looking forward to the 'other' army list book. I think it's a grand idea for them to do it. There's a LOT of disenfranchised WHFB players out there who, if given the chance, might very well make the switch, and offering them a way to do so without sacrificing their collections is a pretty good idea, I think.
I love the fluff for the ratkin, though.... 13 Years? (jab jab). LOL.
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Post by: judgedoug
Slight posing differences, plastic one comes with sword and whip.
Same as the Fellbeast - comes with alternate heads and either a generic Nazul or the Witch King to ride it.
Attached is a pic of the two metal versions released (top two), plastic (bottom left), and unreleased ice balrog.
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Post by: Phobos
Were any of the $100 army add ons for the KoW kickstarter worth getting? I'm wondering if I missed something great...
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Post by: bubber
The balrog I got has metal wings - each comes in 2 parts. These were soon switched to plastic wings before the full plastic one came out.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
 Phobos wrote:Were any of the $100 army add ons for the KoW kickstarter worth getting? I'm wondering if I missed something great...
All of them saved you a ton off of MSRP and gave you lots of stuff you would use all the time.
You missed a great deal.
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Post by: heartserenade
 judgedoug wrote:
Slight posing differences, plastic one comes with sword and whip.
Same as the Fellbeast - comes with alternate heads and either a generic Nazul or the Witch King to ride it.
Attached is a pic of the two metal versions released (top two), plastic (bottom left), and unreleased ice balrog.
Doesn't seem like there's any huge difference. Hopefully I can still grab a plastic one, but I remember my friend having a metal one and he quitted playing tabletop wargames a long time ago so I might be able to buy it from him.
Anyway back on topic, it seems like that the old Undead bundles are gone from the website, replaced by the new ones. The old ones (like Lady Illona's gang and shiz) seems to contain more stuff, if I remember correctly? I mean the new armies are still a good deal, but they don't contain a rulebook unlike the old ones.
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Post by: scarletsquig
I think the mini-rulebooks are possibly being phased out with the addition of a £10 softback book for the rules.
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Post by: Donomar
 scarletsquig wrote:I think the mini-rulebooks are possibly being phased out with the addition of a £10 softback book for the rules.
Picked up a free softcover rule book at the ETC this weekend. Nice touch from Mantic to do this; I take it what they gave out is what you are talking about? It's called 'Gamers edition' and has all the basic rules as well as the army lists at the back
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Post by: adamsouza
Not crazy out the chainmail diaper, but I'm loving the rest of it.
I should mention that my love of this item is conditional on being able to obtain one for about $20. Above that, my love falters, since bones makes beatiful big bads for $15 or less.
Was he part of the Abyssal Army deal ? It's been soo long I don't recall.
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Post by: scarletsquig
 Lt. Donomar StubbornBull wrote: scarletsquig wrote:I think the mini-rulebooks are possibly being phased out with the addition of a £10 softback book for the rules.
Picked up a free softcover rule book at the ETC this weekend. Nice touch from Mantic to do this; I take it what they gave out is what you are talking about? It's called 'Gamers edition' and has all the basic rules as well as the army lists at the back
That's the one, haven't received mine yet but my FLGS has them. Great book, £10 gets you all the rules and army lists, probably the best gaming purchase anyone with a warhammer army can make right now.
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Post by: Da Boss
I like the big abyssal, kinda. But I get the impression that whoever said he was "blown up" to that size was correct. Texture detail on his skin and especially the hair on his hooves, as well as the chainmail, looks wrong and outscaled on that miniature, and it could be a deal breaker for me. The "hair" looks especially bad. I don't mind the pose or the muscles or the head, that all looks fine to me.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Big demon wasn't in the army deal.
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Post by: Dawnbringer
 Da Boss wrote:I like the big abyssal, kinda. But I get the impression that whoever said he was "blown up" to that size was correct. Texture detail on his skin and especially the hair on his hooves, as well as the chainmail, looks wrong and outscaled on that miniature, and it could be a deal breaker for me. The "hair" looks especially bad. I don't mind the pose or the muscles or the head, that all looks fine to me.
I think the "hair" on his hooves is supposed to be fire.
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Post by: GrimDork
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's meant to be painted up as fire. Otherwise he's got two big wads of hair in his hands and there's a pretty strong updraft 
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Post by: Da Boss
Huh. Fire? The fire on the hands I could see, but the stuff on his legs doesn't look very flame-y to me.
Hair+cloven hooves is more classic demon, but maybe you're right.
I don't think that would look that good, personally. If I got one (I probably wouldn't - I have a nicely painted GW daemon prince if I need a big demon) I would have to do something with those flamey feet.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
He's okay, but Reaper Bones exist, so whatever.
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Post by: Da Boss
Reaper is a bit of a pain in the arse to get in Europe though.
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Post by: GrimDork
Ehh, the stuff on the legs *might* be hair. If it is... it's sucky hair that needs to be resculpted. I would paint it like fire just to save my own sensibilities. The chainmail diaper looks stupid now that I've seen it. I would have to get some kind of shield or gargoyle faced codpiece or something to cover up as much of that as possible.
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Post by: Theophony
 adamsouza wrote:
Not crazy out the chainmail diaper, but I'm loving the rest of it.
Here I thought he was a slaanesh demon and those were sucker marks from a giant octopus
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Post by: heartserenade
I just realized it has a chainmail diaper once you pointed it out. Ugh.
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
I'd do the hair around the legs as flames most likely.
The Bones stuff might not be as large as the Mantic guy. I'm painting that not- Balrog looking Bones guy from the 2nd Kickstarter, and he's only around 100mm or so including his rather thick base and big wings.
The Abyssal fiend looks bigger than that judging by how tall he is compared to the guys in the picture, assuming they're around 28mm or so. Fiend looks to be about 3 times their size.
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Post by: scarletsquig
The large resin monsters haven't turned out great, the abyssal fiend in particular doesn't look very menacing, and the loincloth in the concept art being replaced with oddly oversized chainmail underwear was a bad call.
£25 price tag makes it very hard to compete with Reaper Bones even if the sculpts were good, and for the high-end buyer Mierce has massively better monster sculpts.
Even some niche GW stuff like the Dweller in the Dark looks much better as a demonic fiend and fits better with the mantic infantry style.
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Post by: Thraxas Of Turai
Very fair call there SSquig. It is a shame that (for me at least) a lot of the bigger models seem quite poor in comparison to what is out there at the moment, and indeed poorer than Mantic's own 28-30mm figures. There is clearly a market for affordable bigger beasties, but Mantic just keep on failing to make the miniatures that could capitalise on this. The level of detail is certainly off and personally the aesthetic is too.
It is obviously not a intent to make sub-standard large models so what stage(s) in the design, sculpting and production process is allowing it?
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Post by: scarletsquig
Think it is primarily going wrong at the concept art stage, where there is a penchant for chunky heroic scale, tiny legs etc.
The abyssal fiend has the jaws similar to the old elf drakons in the concept art, which made it through to the final sculpt.
Also, while a "mischievous imp" style works well on the smaller minis since it fits the classical demon theme of spitefully cruel lesser minions that love to torture, that style applied to a larger demon or leader doesn't quite work since they're supposed to be the pure evil overlords.
I'm also surprised they don't use their board game plastic for larger monsters in KoW, the material is excellent and affordable. The DS dragon will probably be their first commercial success.
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Post by: NTRabbit
I think the problem is that the big beasties just don't mesh with what Mantic is all about, which is lots of affordable minis that look good ranked together on a table.
These big beasties aren't going to be used more than 1 or 2, which means right from the beginning it falls outside of Mantic's price structure, which is that everything is cheaper when you buy it by the box load. This also means the volume is so low that not only is hard plastic not viable, even restic is probably financially unsound. It's far too big and heavy for metal, so it has to be resin - the most expensive material, requiring the most skilled labor. There was never going to be a way for Mantic to make these big beasties 'affordable' in the same way Reaper does.
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Post by: mattjgilbert
All this needs feeding back on the KS pages if it isn't already.
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Post by: NTRabbit
scarletsquig wrote:I'm also surprised they don't use their board game plastic for larger monsters in KoW, the material is excellent and affordable. The DS dragon will probably be their first commercial success.
Demand, I'd say. You can't just make 1, or 100 of them, you need to be ordering a 5000 unit run of them at a minimum - pretty easy to do for a Dragon that's being sold as a board game component first, with backer preorders, and a secondary use as a Kings of War dragon in, what is it, 4 armies? Abyssal Fiends and Greater Obsidian Golems aren't a part of the boardgame or the expansions, they'd have to order a full run of them and then hope they sell enough to clear the warehouse and earn the investment back.
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Post by: Thraxas Of Turai
Failure at the concept art stage does make sense. This got me thinking which are my favourite Mantic large models and they are the Mars Attacks Big Stompy Robot and Saucer where, I assume, somebody else had already done the leg work design wise. There is also the possibility that the organic shapes needed for Fantasy are harder to work with.
Ultimately Mantic need people to be buying their miniatures, and not just their rules, for the company to thrive.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
Wasn't this sculpted (somewhat) smaller then blown up ?
that never ends well as the degree of exaggeration you need for something at 28 or 50mm is not going to look right at 70 or 100mm
and stuff like that chain mail is a great example, links so large a 28mm warriors sword/spear etc will go right though the holes
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Post by: Da Boss
I've got to say with big centre pieces that cost a lot, I'm looking for a higher level of quality than with rank and file troops.
So I'm unlikely to purchase any of these unless they improve the quality.
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Post by: dragqueeninspace
TBH greater daemons, dragons and witch elves have so much competition out their for 28mm minis its wise to just make something that fits your aesthetic. I can't say I think its great but it can be easily solved using the buy something else method.
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Post by: TheWaspinator
So, if the preorder listings I'm reading are right, the new Undead vs Dwarfs starter set includes a copy of the new Gamer's Edition rulebook. Seems like probably the best way to get the rulebook if you care about those armies.
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Post by: mattjgilbert
I just noticed the picture of the dwarf sharpshooters has appeared on the pre-order page.
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Post by: edlowe
The big abyssal does look better from the side.
Tho I do hope its a wip as the Chainmail pants do look pretty poor. Plus the talons on the top of the wing look a bit blunt.
I forgot to order one during the pm and i'm not too bother about picking one up now which is a shame as the rest of the range look pretty cool imho.
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Post by: Da Boss
Those Dwarves are pretty cool! Would not mind picking them up along with some Brock Riders in the future.
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
I've got a box of Brock Riders, and the're really not as great in real life as I thought they would be. Maybe I'm still hung up on the cliche of dwarfs as craftsmen, but the random, useless bits of nailed-on armor don't do them any favors, and the berserker riders are a very marmite design that I happen to dislike. Also, the details are softer than on earlier restics, and the pieces fit together only with a lot of effort or quite a bit of apathy towards the final outcome. I went with the latter.
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Post by: mattjgilbert
I think the trick (not used it myself exactly like this) to assembling 2-part mounts like restic horses or badgers, is hot water to soften them up and then push them together. Should work, as hot water works normally when reshaping restic.
It's about the only thing going for it as a material.
Mantic seemed to have stopped using it now.
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Post by: judgedoug
 bubber wrote:The balrog I got has metal wings - each comes in 2 parts. These were soon switched to plastic wings before the full plastic one came out.
Let me know if you wanna sell it! I'm trying to make a Balrog family and I don't have the metal-wings version 
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Post by: overtyrant
Have the starter Forces of the Abyss list been released yet?
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Post by: NTRabbit
No, the Abyss and Nature army stuff is in one stage or another of design and production, won't be out to backers and then retailers for another couple months yet.
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Post by: overtyrant
 NTRabbit wrote:No, the Abyss and Nature army stuff is in one stage or another of design and production, won't be out to backers and then retailers for another couple months yet.
Ok thanks. Do we know what sort of units will be in there? Will it look anything like the previous edition force compensation wise?
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Post by: NTRabbit
overtyrant wrote: NTRabbit wrote:No, the Abyss and Nature army stuff is in one stage or another of design and production, won't be out to backers and then retailers for another couple months yet.
Ok thanks. Do we know what sort of units will be in there? Will it look anything like the previous edition force compensation wise?
While the minis are months away, the army lists for them are already out - the free partial list pdfs are on the Mantic site, or you can load up the full lists with EasyArmy or the newly updated Battlescribe repo
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Post by: overtyrant
NTRabbit wrote:overtyrant wrote: NTRabbit wrote:No, the Abyss and Nature army stuff is in one stage or another of design and production, won't be out to backers and then retailers for another couple months yet.
Ok thanks. Do we know what sort of units will be in there? Will it look anything like the previous edition force compensation wise?
While the minis are months away, the army lists for them are already out - the free partial list pdfs are on the Mantic site, or you can load up the full lists with EasyArmy or the newly updated Battlescribe repo
Thanks, just checked it out. Seems there is quite a few new units.
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Post by: Donomar
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:I've got a box of Brock Riders, and the're really not as great in real life as I thought they would be. Maybe I'm still hung up on the cliche of dwarfs as craftsmen, but the random, useless bits of nailed-on armor don't do them any favors, and the berserker riders are a very marmite design that I happen to dislike. Also, the details are softer than on earlier restics, and the pieces fit together only with a lot of effort or quite a bit of apathy towards the final outcome. I went with the latter.
Sorry to hear that about the Brock riders as I was keen to pick some up. They are probably the only dwarf unit from the Kow list I really need as I have a large Gw dwarf army. I guess 3 Scibor dwarfs on bears could be used on a similar size base to 10 Brock riders? 
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Post by: overtyrant
Lt. Donomar StubbornBull wrote: BobtheInquisitor wrote:I've got a box of Brock Riders, and the're really not as great in real life as I thought they would be. Maybe I'm still hung up on the cliche of dwarfs as craftsmen, but the random, useless bits of nailed-on armor don't do them any favors, and the berserker riders are a very marmite design that I happen to dislike. Also, the details are softer than on earlier restics, and the pieces fit together only with a lot of effort or quite a bit of apathy towards the final outcome. I went with the latter.
Sorry to hear that about the Brock riders as I was keen to pick some up. They are probably the only dwarf unit from the Kow list I really need as I have a large Gw dwarf army. I guess 3 Scibor dwarfs on bears could be used on a similar size base to 10 Brock riders?
As long as the bases add up or your movement tray is the same stated size for the unit type and size as stated in the book your good to go.
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Post by: MasterSlowPoke
I thought my kickstarter Brock Riders went together fairly well.
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Post by: TheAuldGrump
Mine went together with no problems as well.
But I also ordered early, maybe the molds have suffered?
The Auld Grump
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Just got an email saying my DBX/ KoW pledge will ship by the end of the week
Exciting!
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Post by: edlowe
Some great looking ogre braves and warlock, really hope they go plastic with the main warriors in this style.
in metal not restic or resin, and out soonish I believe to none backers.
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Post by: overtyrant
Love the braves, makes me wished the rest of the ogres were in this style. Something odd about the brave, maybe the skinny legs or arms, not sure.
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Post by: edlowe
If they can get whoever sculpted the braves and warlock to do the entire ogre range I'd be very happy. We definitely need a proper ogre chariot kit and the warriors redoing in this style imho.
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Post by: Swastakowey
Those braves are great. Keen on trying those out.
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Post by: GrimDork
Huh, those ogres do look a bit more proportioned in terms of legs and arms and stuff, huh?
I got that email too, so I should have my stuff for both DBX and KoW within 18 or so days. I don't have much of either coming, the Naiads and other models are a separate and later wave, correct?
Should be nice to flip through the book though.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Yup, Nature, Abyssals and Dragon are later.
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Post by: Mymearan
Hm, Braves look more like GW ogres than they do previous Mantic efforts. Interesting.
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Post by: Swastakowey
 Mymearan wrote:Hm, Braves look more like GW ogres than they do previous Mantic efforts. Interesting.
Really? GW ogres are fat and chunky. These look kind of slender and muscular. GW ones kind of look like pirates ish too. These look like nomads. I don't know, they seem pretty different to me. Except the weapons look kinda GW ish being the square cleaver look.
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
I liked the Mantic Ogres. Looked more bestial and wild.
These guys definitely look better proportioned though. The original ones had those French knees.
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Post by: Mymearan
 Swastakowey wrote: Mymearan wrote:Hm, Braves look more like GW ogres than they do previous Mantic efforts. Interesting.
Really? GW ogres are fat and chunky. These look kind of slender and muscular. GW ones kind of look like pirates ish too. These look like nomads.
I don't know, they seem pretty different to me. Except the weapons look kinda GW ish being the square cleaver look.
They have similar proportions but without the pot bellies, and also a bit of that Mongolian influence. Previous Mantic Ogres have the worst case of Tiny Legs syndrome in their range, these look way better. In fact I would actually buy them! But yeah more like somewhere in between.
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Post by: .Mikes.
Where? I'm seeing anything mongolian or even overtly asian in their look.
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Post by: AegisGrimm
I think they look miles cooler than the GW ones. Fat guys in parachute pants?
These are awesome. They look like what I would imagine more gritty fantasy's would have their Ogres look like.
They are like giant marauding Orc barbarians. Reminds me of ancient GW ogres.
My most favorite Ogre ever from Citadel, I have loved this guy since he was available for purchase:
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Post by: Mort
I gotta agree. GW does the 'fat ogre, fat dwarf' thing and I find those armies pretty terrible to look at.
But GW's LotR dwarves, and Mantic's ogres... yeah. Awesome stuff. I don't care for ogres in general, but these ogre Braves look very, very nice, in my opinion!
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Post by: Mymearan
Oh man old jes Goodwin ogres are indeed the best. But yeah these Mantic ones look great. Although it doesn't bode well that the shaman guy kept his Tiny Legs.
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Post by: NTRabbit
"Tiny" legs is the Mantic house style, like it or loathe it it's not going away
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Post by: Nostromodamus
NTRabbit wrote:"Tiny" legs is the Mantic house style, like it or loathe it it's not going away
Also the PP house style for Trolls.
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Post by: Mymearan
NTRabbit wrote:"Tiny" legs is the Mantic house style, like it or loathe it it's not going away
Apparently it is... But only for some lucky ogres!
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Post by: Swastakowey
Mymearan wrote: NTRabbit wrote:"Tiny" legs is the Mantic house style, like it or loathe it it's not going away
Apparently it is... But only for some lucky ogres!
If you look closely you will find the legs of the models are the same. Just ones knees are hidden.
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Post by: Taaloc
The Ogre braves look brutal, really like them. Not so much a fan of the warlock- it seems to suffer a bit with Mantic Mediocrity.
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Post by: AlexHolker
The Ogre Braves look good. The Ogre Warlock looks terrible. Everything the Braves do right - the head higher on the shoulders, the meaty legs, the serious faces, the Warlock fails to do, and reverts to the usual Mantic style.
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Post by: heartserenade
Ogre braves look good! The warlock is just okay. It has small legs but not like the previous ogres.
If Mantic made their other ogres like the Braves, I would've made an Ogre army in a heartbeat.
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Post by: Dawnbringer
 AlexHolker wrote:The Ogre Braves look good. The Ogre Warlock looks terrible. Everything the Braves do right - the head higher on the shoulders, the meaty legs, the serious faces, the Warlock fails to do, and reverts to the usual Mantic style.
I'm ok with the warlock looking odd. I just think of him as the funny looking little ogre all the other little ogres picked on until he started throwing fire from his hands.
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Post by: NTRabbit
I really like both the Warlock and the Braves, I think they fit the awesome Mantic Ogre style well and plan to get them from my local internet retailer as soon as I am able. Lean, mean, fighting machines.
Then again I also think the GW Ogres are utterly ridiculous in style, and wouldn't use them if I was paid to do it. The whole fat Mongolian thing, as I've now learned it's meant to be, either they picked a gak idea, or picked a good idea and didn't get anywhere close to reaching it.
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Post by: edlowe
Actually now I think of it the warlock was sculpted well over a year ago by Remy and the braves were only done recently by CAD. So that's why There's a difference in style and the warlock has more in common with the original ogres.
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Post by: Taaloc
 edlowe wrote:Actually now I think of it the warlock was sculpted well over a year ago by Remy and the braves were only done recently by CAD. So that's why There's a difference in style and the warlock has more in common with the original ogres.
So Remy has done some cracking sculpts over the years so why is his work for Mantic often so sub-par? Do they not pay him enough? Or is someone at Mantic actually telling him to make things less good? I don't get it.
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Post by: edlowe
Taaloc wrote: edlowe wrote:Actually now I think of it the warlock was sculpted well over a year ago by Remy and the braves were only done recently by CAD. So that's why There's a difference in style and the warlock has more in common with the original ogres.
So Remy has done some cracking sculpts over the years so why is his work for Mantic often so sub-par? Do they not pay him enough? Or is someone at Mantic actually telling him to make things less good? I don't get it.
I have a feeling it's down to the limitations of Restic as a casting medium, it does tend to lend itself more to large blocky sculpts. Some of the deadzone plague have really warped open legs from the casting, I'd supose the ogres legs being closer together would make them easier to cast in restic. Metal on the otherhand is a much more forgiving medium with its issues and benefits more widely known.
Mantic have definitely been on a quirky learning curve regarding materials, and they have happily admitted that they shouldn't have dived into restic with such glee as they did, hence the more recent figures have returned to metal or their improving plastic manufacturing. It's a shame they are probably stuck with the poorer earlier models due to the costs of redeveloping them.
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
While they may be stuck with some of the early restic stuff at the moment, I can see a lot of that getting phased out at a retail level as more and more plastic kits get created.
Wouldn't surprise me in the least if a boxed version of Deadzone: Infestation replaces Contagion at some point due to the ease of working with plastics, especially if they go together quick and easy.
Maybe we'll see something similar with the rumored Mordheim/ Deadzone fantasy skirmish game that is talked of in hushed tones.
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Post by: mattjgilbert
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Post by: Swastakowey
FINALLY!
Thank you.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Any DBX/KoW backers in the US get a shipping notice?
They're supposed to have these orders shipped by the end of the week, thought I'd have heard someone getting notice by now...
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Post by: GrimDork
I'll let you know if I do. I'm not getting much from either thing in this wave but I haven't had anything cool in the mail (from kickstarters, at least) lately so I'm sort of excited nonetheless.
So that human army (the evil one) looks interesting. Sounds like a decent place for chaos players to settle with larger elite infantry and upgrades that could loosely be interpreted to represent three of the chaos gods. No Nurgle that I could tell, but I was skimming.
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Post by: heartserenade
I hope they make leg packs for the ogres, or change the sculpts for them. I would seriously buy them, since they seem to be a low model count army and it would be easy to make them a 2nd or 3rd army.
It's really just the peepee legs that puts me off big time.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and apparently Mantic sells movement trays now! Yahoo!
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Post by: mattjgilbert
The legs and torsos are all one piece so I don't think leg packs would be practical.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
 Alex C wrote:Any DBX/ KoW backers in the US get a shipping notice?
They're supposed to have these orders shipped by the end of the week, thought I'd have heard someone getting notice by now...
I didn't think Mantic shipments came with tracking, they just use Royal Mail which transitions into USPS in the US?
So they'll probably just show up in a week or two
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Post by: Gallahad
Those Ogre Braves are fantastic. I think they are easily some of the best sculpts Mantic has ever produced. Believable legs, nice details to paint (unlike, for example, the orcs that are just covered in random non-descript shapes), faces with character, all around just great sculpts.
Does anybody know what material they will be in when they are released?
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Metal.
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Post by: Shrapnelsmile
any word on when and if the starter set featuring Goblins vs. Undead is slated for release? My son and I are switching from WFB to KoW and these happen to be our forces of choice.
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Post by: mattjgilbert
The new starter is dwarfs vs undead iirc.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
That's what I thought, never heard of Goblin vs. Undead being a thing.
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Post by: .Mikes.
The mention of a few starter sets over time rings a bell, but my memory sucks so it's possible I just amde that up.
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Post by: Psychopomp
I find myself really curious as to the Varangur background. (Totally not for using them in Dungeon Saga, nooo....)
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Post by: TheWaspinator
Are the Ogres getting a new starter set? Any idea on price and contents?
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Post by: Azazelx
Taaloc wrote: edlowe wrote:Actually now I think of it the warlock was sculpted well over a year ago by Remy and the braves were only done recently by CAD. So that's why There's a difference in style and the warlock has more in common with the original ogres.
So Remy has done some cracking sculpts over the years so why is his work for Mantic often so sub-par? Do they not pay him enough? Or is someone at Mantic actually telling him to make things less good? I don't get it.
That makes sense - it certainly explains the difference between the shaman and the braves at least, as well as why the Shaman isn't on the same level. The difference might be weak art direction combined with what I always suspected was a bit too much of "that's so cool!!!1!" enthusiasm when presented with sculpts. I think we've also seen that Remy isn't quite as amazing as he was cracked up to be. He's certainly talented, but he's not consistent.
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Post by: NTRabbit
Same contents as the old in a new box for the same price, I believe, minus the pamphlet 1E rules of course, same as the "new" Abyssal Dwarf starter set
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Post by: edlowe
Picked up a box of the forest shamblers today from my local store, really nice sculpts. Wish I'd picked some up on the ks pm now.
They had the giant abyssal golem box aswell which is a pretty huge box, but at £24.99 is wasn't too keen on picking on up.
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Post by: Theophony
Wait the new stuffs in stores already? I didn't think shipping had begun to everyone yet because the logistics of getting orders pulled was so taxing. Thanks Mantic 
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Post by: scarletsquig
^ New stuff has been in store for a couple of weeks now, big stack of the rulebook in my LGS.
Got my KoW KS package today, it seems like the wound markers and hardback are delayed, but the rest is great. The Tyrant King Blaine mini is especially good, the resin is done by Prodos Games interestingly.
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Post by: Polonius
scarletsquig wrote:^ New stuff has been in store for a couple of weeks now, big stack of the rulebook in my LGS.
Got my KoW KS package today, it seems like the wound markers and hardback are delayed, but the rest is great. The Tyrant King Blaine mini is especially good, the resin is done by Prodos Games interestingly.
So, what exactly are they shipping at this time?
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Post by: Siygess
To be fair, their email did say that the Hardback would be in a separate package because I thought the same thing when I opened the box today. Of course, the fact that Blaine was produced by Prodos was a nice surprise.. but by no means was it the only surprise in the box from Mantic.
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Post by: Polonius
 Siygess wrote:To be fair, their email did say that the Hardback would be in a separate package because I thought the same thing when I opened the box today. Of course, the fact that Blaine was produced by Prodos was a nice surprise.. but by no means was it the only surprise in the box from Mantic.
Wait, I thought they delayed shipping to consolidate all of the new stuff into one package?
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Post by: mattjgilbert
They did, but then the printers delayed the hardback a week so they are releasing everything else they have and then sending on the book once it arrives.
As far as I understand.
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Post by: Polonius
 mattjgilbert wrote:They did, but then the printers delayed the hardback a week so they are releasing everything else they have and then sending on the book once it arrives.
As far as I understand.
So... they held up stuff they had in stock for eight months to wait for the book, but when the book got delayed by a week they decided to ship everything early anyway? I'm sure it makes sense, but as an end consumer, it seems bizarre.
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Post by: NTRabbit
They would have had to do a whole new production run of the existing stuff, they would not have had enough on hand to fulfill all the backers and their retail channels, so it hasn't been delayed 8 months just because of the books.
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Post by: RobertsMinis
For the people who got Blaine, did you order him? I didn't order one but thought I was getting one anyway...
Contents look fairly good so far.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
I vaguely remember a free blaine (at some level) and a blaine on a dinosaur you had to order
but I may well be imagining things
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Post by: Bolognesus
Blaine on dino is included in the $50 pledge level.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
well there you go
real facts beat fragile and vague memories
(well unless it's the map of mantica.... grrr)
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Post by: endtransmission
You could buy extras of Blaine on the dino, so that is probably where that memory came from
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Post by: Wehrkind
Anyone else keep reading that as "Libing Legend"? I know logically it is a v, but that font keeps trying to convince me otherwise.
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Post by: RobertsMinis
So, I should have received Blaine and the softback book? I'm a big fan of Mantic and genuinely think they produced some great stuff but checking a KS is such a laborious task, and there is always something wrong.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Robert, what did you get so far?
Dave from Mantic had sent everyone an email saying the hardback book and tokens would be in a seperate package from everything else, and the rest would be in 1+ packages depending on the amount of stuff ordered.
Apparently a lot of people didn't get/read that email as I keep seeing "mispack" complaints talking about this very problem but it's likely you just havn't got all the packages yet.
If you don't have it by September 1st, file a mispack.
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Post by: RobertsMinis
I got my Dreadball stuff and my KoW in the same box. Plenty of room left in the box. Didn't get any email from Mantic either. Maybe it is coming separately, there is no mention of softback book on the packing slip.
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Post by: Baragash
You should have got Blaine if you were due to receive him (either as a freebie or paid add-on).
I got everything I was expecting (subject to checking the parts in individual bags) + extra special bonus of 3/4s of a box of styrofoam.........much amusement was not had. Considering the absolute ball-ache KoW1, DBO and DZ were to get the right bits, I probably shouldn't be too put out 
And two bards, but I don't know if I ordered an extra one because Mantic's comms weren't clear that I was getting one for free (seems likely as it has 2 on the content note) or it's an error on Mantic's part.
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Post by: RobertsMinis
I've checked the bags, everything seems present and correct from my Kings of War stuff though the casting on the Soul Reavers isn't the cleanest I've ever seen but not the worst I've seen either.
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Post by: Necros
Just got the shipping notice for the hardback rulebook I preordered
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Post by: Taarnak
Sent an email about the pdf. Seems like I've been ignored. Will try again.
~Eric
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Post by: Azazelx
War. War never changes...
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Post by: NTRabbit
It seems as though, as nice as it apparently is, Prodos didn't make or send enough Blaine Dinorider minis to Mantic, and more are only coming in at a trickle. KS update says it's delaying shipping a little as they do the orders of people who aren't getting Blaine while waiting for more stock.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
Probably worth saying Mantic are saying
We’ve not been sent enough by our supplier and are getting deliveries every two or three days to replenish stock enough so that we can keep sending out orders.
rather than throwing Prodos under the bus directly (warranted or not)
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Prodos holding up a project delivering in a timely manner?
Say it ain't so....
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the DBX/ KoW mashup packages at least have them in there.
Any reports of US people getting their double game box?
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Post by: Nostromodamus
 highlord tamburlaine wrote:I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the DBX/ KoW mashup packages at least have them in there.
Any reports of US people getting their double game box?
Nothing here yet. i'll let y'all know.
DBX/ KoW packages were the first to be shipped, so hopefully the fethers at Prodos didn't screw over our orders and make us wait even LONGER for DBX...
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Post by: mattjgilbert
My dbx and kow combo shipment had Blaine in it.
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Post by: Siygess
Did your copy also have.. er.. extra teams in it?
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Post by: rosafari
I ordered two teams and got six, not sure if it was an error or a freebie/streamlined packing strategy - but since every Mantic kickstarter order I've received has had something wrong with it (rarely in my favour) I'm inclined to believe it's the former.
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Post by: Siygess
As did I, and I didn't order any teams at all. Hell, I only backed DBX for three MVPs.
It looks like they tried to merge the DBX and KoW pledges together and Mantic happened.
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
With my traditional Mantic luck, I'm sure you guys got my teams.
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Post by: Bolognesus
I had a few bits 'n bobs missing from my DBX wave 2 shipment. Never did get the replacement plastic bits. Spares package contained two frenzy packs for that wave, plus the team roster (I think, it's been a while) that I had reported missing from the initial package as well. Kind of didn't have the heart to chase up a few bases and a model or two I didn't care for that much anyway after that mishap
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
Prodos and Mantic seem like just the kind of team up that would require a 1-hour crossover special. Who will stop this dastardly duo? Why, Batman and Scooby Doo, of course!
"Let's see who's really under this Prodos mask... Chinese New Year?"
"I would have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for you meddling backers, and your dog."
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Post by: Nostromodamus
I wouldn't compare Mantic to Prodos.
Far too unfair to Ronnie & co.
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
Alex C wrote:I wouldn't compare Mantic to Prodos.
Far too unfair to Ronnie & co.
I see Mantic as being comparable to Bizarro. "Me save customers from restic by making it metal. Me lick artwork so much me bury it and start over."
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Well I've never had a problem with Mantic anyway.
Other than them arbitrarily changing their mind on KS rewards.
At least I get product when I give them money, unlike Prodos.
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Post by: JoshInJapan
I'm really looking forward to the conversion kits for skulks. I have enough plastic GW orc archers for a couple of troops, but they are grotesquely out of scale with my Mantic orcs.
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
Alex C wrote:Well I've never had a problem with Mantic anyway.
Other than them arbitrarily changing their mind on KS rewards.
At least I get product when I give them money, unlike Prodos.
We'll just have to agree to mostly agree.
I like Mantic, for the most part, but I will definitely make fun of them when they pull a Mantic. Which they will always do. Because they are Mantic.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
 JoshInJapan wrote:I'm really looking forward to the conversion kits for skulks. I have enough plastic GW orc archers for a couple of troops, but they are grotesquely out of scale with my Mantic orcs.
I didn't quite understand in the update, are they selling just the conversion parts, or complete kits?
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Post by: GrimDork
Parts it sounded like, though a kit wouldn't go amiss especially for new players...
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Also, where do you get the rules for Blaine? With the model or online?
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Post by: Bolognesus
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Alex C wrote:I wouldn't compare Mantic to Prodos.
Far too unfair to Ronnie & co.
I see Mantic as being comparable to Bizarro. "Me save customers from restic by making it metal. Me lick artwork so much me bury it and start over."
To be fair, by the time they've licked artwork that much I'm sure all the parties involved are better off for it being buried, all things considered
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Post by: Baragash
Alex C wrote:Also, where do you get the rules for Blaine? With the model or online?
We haven't written them yet, though the alpha version is slightly juicier than a Krudger on Slasher so we recommend that as an interim.
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Post by: mattjgilbert
I thought I'd got a whole load of extra teams but then realised that Frenzy had doubled up on teams. The first lots were all together with MVPs and sponsors in a large bag. The rest (what I thought were extra ones) were all loose in their separate team bags (6 teams worth) in the box. So I got what I was supposed to once I'd figured out what was going on.
Maybe some people got lucky as over-enthusiastic packers threw these 6 extra teams into more boxes than just the Frenzy ones?
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
from Mantic on facebook Mantic Games
1 hr ·
.
Anyone out there with a resin casting machine or know somebody with one? We need more supply!
seems they really are in need of more stuff
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Post by: NTRabbit
I know UK based Wargames Bakery had a similar issue when they were getting their Basius 2 pads made - they never specified who the casters they contracted were, but said they overpromised and underdelivered on the required timeframe to get them all done, and WGB had to go out and find additional casters.
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Post by: edlowe
 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:from Mantic on facebook
Mantic Games
1 hr ·
.
Anyone out there with a resin casting machine or know somebody with one? We need more supply!
seems they really are in need of more stuff
Anvil industry do some mighty fine resin casting, some of the best stuff ive seen. I wasn't impressed at all with my warzone stuff from prodos most of its still in a box needing a ton of clean up.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:from Mantic on facebook
Mantic Games
1 hr ·
.
Anyone out there with a resin casting machine or know somebody with one? We need more supply!
seems they really are in need of more stuff
Maybe they shouldn't have outsourced a model from their core pledge to a company that is known to have problems fulfilling orders.
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Post by: Theophony
Alex C wrote: OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:from Mantic on facebook
Mantic Games
1 hr ·
.
Anyone out there with a resin casting machine or know somebody with one? We need more supply!
seems they really are in need of more stuff
Maybe they shouldn't have outsourced a model from their core pledge to a company that is known to have problems fulfilling orders.
ALMOST like they don't think everything through.
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Post by: Polonius
 Theophony wrote: Alex C wrote:
Maybe they shouldn't have outsourced a model from their core pledge to a company that is known to have problems fulfilling orders.
ALMOST like they don't think everything through.
I see what you did there.
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Post by: MangoMadness
Sounds like a non directed dig at the supplier maybe because direct communication hasnt resulted in an increased delivery timetable.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
 MangoMadness wrote:Sounds like a non directed dig at the supplier maybe because direct communication hasnt resulted in an increased delivery timetable.
Perhaps Mantic needs to write to them and call them lying fethers who lack any kind of competence or professionalism.
Some folks have had luck getting product from them by speaking on their level.
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
Was the Prodos stuff really that bad, or was it typical Kickstarter underperformance?
I've picked up a few pieces of Warzone stuff at retail and have been fairly happy with it.
Maybe Mantic can get in touch with Zealot Miniatures? They do their own casting don't they? They were doing Minion's stuff as well, weren't they?
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Prodos makes amazing miniatures.
Whether you actually get said miniatures is a different story.
Also, their customer relations and business accumen actually make GW look good.
But yes, Prodos makes a nice product.
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Post by: Baragash
Whilst I haven't examined it in detail, my first reaction to the Blaine-osaur was "mmmmm, yummy", and I've only seen positive things from others.
In this case it isn't the quality is the rate of production.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
highlord tamburlaine wrote:Was the Prodos stuff really that bad, or was it typical Kickstarter underperformance?
I've picked up a few pieces of Warzone stuff at retail and have been fairly happy with it.
Maybe Mantic can get in touch with Zealot Miniatures? They do their own casting don't they? They were doing Minion's stuff as well, weren't they?
Prodos's stuff is good, they're just running late (or very, very late) on both mantics stuff as well as their own AvP KS and apparently contract castings they are meant to be doing for other projects too (Wolsung).. for lots of grief see the AvP thread in boardgames
Zealot do indeed to outside casting as well as their own stuff,
but they've been running pretty late on casting the stuff from Minion (in part at least due to the success of their own KS) and this is not finished yet
so even if Mantic had used (or now starts to use) them you're still looking at delays (although the communication would almost certainly have been better)
sadly I think with more and more KS (and indeed companies) offering high end resin it's going to be harder and harder to get contact houses to do so in a timely manner
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Post by: Bioptic
Yes, just got a package containing Blaine, Ronnie & the "Gamer's Edition" rulebook (no hardback yet). The Blaine is a Prodos casting and really is excellent - looks both clean and quite durable. The spear is rather bent, unfortunately- is that the sort of thing that you can fix with hot water?
Heaven help them with the Dungeon Saga Kickstarter though - that's also meant to be delivering soon, has over twice the number of backers, and every single basic pledge contains a resin model! It sounds like those are going to be Chinese castings, and pre-packaged at the factory.
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Post by: mattjgilbert
Bioptic wrote:Yes, just got a package containing Blaine, Ronnie & the "Gamer's Edition" rulebook (no hardback yet). The Blaine is a Prodos casting and really is excellent - looks both clean and quite durable. The spear is rather bent, unfortunately- is that the sort of thing that you can fix with hot water?
Yes probably, it usually is.
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Post by: Bolognesus
I find that with resin it's usually advisable to use hot water, bend, then use cold water to 'fix' the new position.
Not using cold water seems to make parts bend back to the previous, crooked shape in a few hours/days.
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Post by: judgedoug
When they say "hot water", it's like, brewing tea hot, not just hot tap water.
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Post by: GrimDork
Yeah like boil the water and let it sit for just a bit, then use it.
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Post by: Azazelx
Alex C wrote:
Maybe they shouldn't have outsourced a model from their core pledge to a company that is known to have problems fulfilling orders.
But it's Mantic!
So perfectly in character for this sort of thing.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Anyone in the US got their combined DBX/KoW pledge yet?
Still waiting on mine from when they supposedly shipped them a couple of weeks ago.
I know they were having trouble with supplies of KoW Blaine, but as DBX/KoW orders were supposedly first to go out, this shouldn't have affected them, right?
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Post by: Warzone Resurrection
Hi there Alex C
Here we go - Bad Prodos again, judging us just by seeing just one side of the story is just...
As for Bane model, we have been given the time scale and we are working to hit it- from my understanding Mantic wanted to move to us as they could not get the numbers from their previous resin casters - and they must had some models made not by us as I have seen them on-line.
The initial 400 they needed at the beginning of the August was delivered on time.
We have been told to make around 2k models by end of August, and we are in 3rd week of mass production at 1400, with 120 a day manufactured. Thus, we looking to get there on time... I understand that the Prodos is an easy target now, but it looks like we are really have to start to defend us more often. I'll be back with Update on it, as I don't really want to Prodos be blamed for something that it's not our fault.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: highlord tamburlaine wrote:Was the Prodos stuff really that bad, or was it typical Kickstarter underperformance?
I've picked up a few pieces of Warzone stuff at retail and have been fairly happy with it.
Maybe Mantic can get in touch with Zealot Miniatures? They do their own casting don't they? They were doing Minion's stuff as well, weren't they?
Prodos's stuff is good, they're just running late (or very, very late) on both mantics stuff as well as their own AvP KS and apparently contract castings they are meant to be doing for other projects too (Wolsung).. for lots of grief see the AvP thread in boardgames
Zealot do indeed to outside casting as well as their own stuff,
but they've been running pretty late on casting the stuff from Minion (in part at least due to the success of their own KS) and this is not finished yet
so even if Mantic had used (or now starts to use) them you're still looking at delays (although the communication would almost certainly have been better)
sadly I think with more and more KS (and indeed companies) offering high end resin it's going to be harder and harder to get contact houses to do so in a timely manner
Hi there, a bit of clarification in the post above.
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Post by: scarletsquig
I don't think anyone is blaming Prodos, there's only so much you can physically cast and any issues with outsourced manufacturers are ultimately Mantic's problem rather than the manufacturer's.
Keep up the good work, the Blaine figure is one of the nicest pieces of resin I own.
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Post by: RiTides
@ Warzone Resurrection - I think you'd do better to keep it a little more professional there, and of course discussing Wolsung payment / lack of payment isn't really on topic to this thread (even if the same poster commented about them elsewhere). Good to hear that you expect to be on time with the production of the remaining Mantic models.
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Post by: Warzone Resurrection
 RiTides wrote:@ Warzone Resurrection - I think you'd do better to keep it a little more professional there, and of course discussing Wolsung payment / lack of payment isn't really on topic to this thread (even if the same poster commented about them elsewhere). Good to hear that you expect to be on time with the production of the remaining Mantic models.
Thanks, yes you might be right, well,I think, at this stage it's a bit too much of this "blame Prodos as they are an easy target" and a bit of explanation was needed. Maybe I should use my brain instead my heart in my comments above and use different wording.. but you know when someone criticise your baby and you know he is not right you may loose it a bit.
Anyhow, thanks and we hope to produce more amazing resin stuff , shame than Mantic has cam to us so late in the process (2 months ago?) as we could make more of their models with resin and casting process we have.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
Thanks for your clarification,
it's interesting to know Mantic were also using another caster before the turned to Prodos as/instead
just goes to show while resin is really nice it does need to be planned further in advance than metals to allow production in sufficient numbers for a big KS
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Post by: Warzone Resurrection
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:Thanks for your clarification,
it's interesting to know Mantic were also using another caster before the turned to Prodos as/instead
just goes to show while resin is really nice it does need to be planned further in advance than metals to allow production in sufficient numbers for a big KS
That's correct, our capacity is around 6k sprues a day (the dino is on 2 sprues). 70% of that capacity is taken by the AvP and WZR.
Remaining is used up by external customers.
So most of the project we take are already late or the timing is not really there to "be on time", however, sometimes we do magic and some heresy... and we can get the numbers...
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Post by: Azazelx
 Warzone Resurrection wrote:
Anyhow, thanks and we hope to produce more amazing resin stuff , shame than Mantic has cam to us so late in the process (2 months ago?) as we could make more of their models with resin and casting process we have.
Look at it this way - do a good enough job and they might come to you earlier/first next time?
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Apologies to Prodos. Seems the whole story wasn't being told...
Still wondering why no US backers have reported getting the DBX/KoW pledge that was supposed to be mailed 2 weeks ago. SOMEONE with an online presence should have got SOMETHING by now, surely?
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Post by: MangoMadness
Deleted because i cant read
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Post by: Nostromodamus
The first quote is regarding Wolsung, the second quote is regarding KoW.
So they stopped production for Wolsung, and are producing for KoW.
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Post by: DaveC
My combined DBX/KoW arrived today and included the Hardback rulebook, counters and wound markers (and Blaine) even though there is note that they will follow later so they have them to ship to backers now I guess they might have held back US orders until they could do it all in one.
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Post by: MangoMadness
Alex - cheers!
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Post by: Polonius
The latest Kickstarter update dropped a shocking tidbit: they are out of stock for Basilian Men at Arms (and goblins).
I don't know who is doing it, but somebody is actually buying them. On purpose, even.
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Post by: Theophony
Would be tragic if the molds had deteriorated to the point of needing to be redone maybe regular arms could be done right on the next go.
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Post by: RoninXiC
I actually like the goblins quite a bit. Got 120 of them right here. Are they amazing? No. Worth their cheap price? Yes absolutely.
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Post by: edlowe
If they could redo the goblins to look like the ds ones I'd be very happy.
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Post by: Alpharius
That would be great - those are some right proper goblins there!
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Post by: .Mikes.
I actually like the look of Men at Arms.
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Post by: Polonius
RoninXiC wrote:I actually like the goblins quite a bit. Got 120 of them right here. Are they amazing? No. Worth their cheap price? Yes absolutely.
I'm interested to see them up close. I grabbed two Ogre Mega armies, so I'm pumped to see what they are like in person. the pictures I've seen of them have usually been crummy.
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Post by: GrimDork
I like the men at arms OK. Some details are soft and they aren't top quality, especially concerning the arms, but I have a few and will be painting them up as town guards/crusaders. Those who don't get fixed with zombie arms and heads that is!
I don't really like pointy nosed bat eared goblins much so its hard for me to love mantic gobbos. Seem OK though, not top shelf but something you can crowd a regiment with.
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Post by: Baragash
Got the Ogre mega army right here, detail on the Goblins is fine.
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Post by: Bolognesus
The MaA are actually OKish with the crossbow arms, and the spears work quite well in the hands of the quilted-uniformed winter soviet infantry from Warlord (I just wanted the greatcoats for BA, so I had 15 left anyway. It's working out surprisingly well so far). I'd guess the shield (minus clipped-off arm) and sword would only be that much easier to mod on for my second box.
And that's kind of the reason why you'd buy them. Not that I'd advise spending €40ish on 15 models and then buy the mantic weapons, but the weapons have a lovely fantasy-ish look that works really well with other miniatures. And at the price they're sold at, it's still a pretty good deal (keeping in mind that, as I said, the crossbow arms actually make the models work pretty well so you basically get a bunch of crossbowmen plus a bunch of weapons for some other historicals).
It's really just the arms that make the MaA unworkable. (sure, some of the detail is rather soft but for line infantry it's not a huge issue to me TBH)
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Post by: Azazelx
Of course you do.
Well that was interesting. They bumped the already-produced models from Feb or whenever to "July" to save themselves money on shipping in two waves (without telling anyone that they changed the deal) and now there'll be two waves anyway with other items led out until Christmas. That's so Mantic.
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Post by: NTRabbit
I guess they really weren't expecting WHFB to implode so spectacularly right as they were heading to print, or the magnitude of the surge in demand for KoW products as a result.
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Post by: Baragash
NTRabbit wrote:I guess they really weren't expecting WHFB to implode so spectacularly right as they were heading to print, or the magnitude of the surge in demand for KoW products as a result.
Correct. They knew it was coming, they didn't know when
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
I got the impression as soon as they got wind of the Age of Simgar, they pushed as hard as they could to get Kings of War into distribution instead of Dungeon Saga, which was supposed to have released first (if I remember correctly).
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Post by: mattjgilbert
highlord tamburlaine wrote:I got the impression as soon as they got wind of the Age of Simgar, they pushed as hard as they could to get Kings of War into distribution instead of Dungeon Saga, which was supposed to have released first (if I remember correctly).
Nope, KoW plans for the book and when we had to have it all done by were all set in stone long before GW announced AoS and nothing changed afterwards. As baragash says, Ronnie knew what GW were planning with AoS but didn't know when they were going to do it.
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Post by: RoninXiC
edlowe wrote:If they could redo the goblins to look like the ds ones I'd be very happy.
Guess I'd rebuy my Goblins IF these would become the standard.
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Post by: GrimDork
Got my DBX/KoW package in today. First time I've seen a DHL van in a while.
Seems like I got what I'm supposed to have gotten, though I have a Ronaldo the Bard (I thought you had to add him on purpose and don't recall doing so?) and what might amount to three extra 8-body teams for DBX. Though, being honest, I didn't pay a lot of attention to DBX so I could just be misremembering what I was meant to receive.
I did get the hardback KoW book, Dino-King Blaine, and the DBX stuff all in one package. Blaine's spear is bent all to hell but I think resin has a similar hot water treatment properties to restic, yes? It's a very smooth cast and quite pretty, though the material seems somewhat bendy (which I thought was a quality *not* possessed by resin?).
Also, for pointy nosed bat-eared goblins, the DS variety are pretty slick and I wouldn't mind having a regiment or two of those if resculpts ever came to light.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
I think Grimdork is the first US DBX/ KoW backer to report receiving product!
Means mine is not far off
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Post by: Wehrkind
 GrimDork wrote:Got my DBX/ KoW package in today. First time I've seen a DHL van in a while.
Seems like I got what I'm supposed to have gotten, though I have a Ronaldo the Bard (I thought you had to add him on purpose and don't recall doing so?) and what might amount to three extra 8-body teams for DBX. Though, being honest, I didn't pay a lot of attention to DBX so I could just be misremembering what I was meant to receive.
I did get the hardback KoW book, Dino-King Blaine, and the DBX stuff all in one package. Blaine's spear is bent all to hell but I think resin has a similar hot water treatment properties to restic, yes? It's a very smooth cast and quite pretty, though the material seems somewhat bendy (which I thought was a quality *not* possessed by resin?).
Also, for pointy nosed bat-eared goblins, the DS variety are pretty slick and I wouldn't mind having a regiment or two of those if resculpts ever came to light.
Weird on the bendy resin, but yea, a boiling (tea temp) cup of water should do the trick. It should straighten under its own weight if you dip it in then lift it out. A quick dip in cold water afterwards isn't necessary, but not a bad idea either.
61979
Post by: DaveC
I think it's Prodos spincast resin so its properties are not quite the same as other resin one backer reported theirs warping under its own weight bending at the ankle after assembly if your in a hot country it might be a problem.
Ronaldo the bard was included free in living legend and up they tried to back track on this but had to concede when it was pointed out in the original updates.
There seems to be some mispacks with DBX season 6 teams I didn't order any of them but got all 4 as have others they are even on the packing slip but not in my pledge.
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Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim
I actually received mine via DHL as well. A shockingly low number of mispacks considering the crate I received. :-p
Turns out mega-army bundles of every faction, terrain, books, etc... take up a lot of space. :-p
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
All your DBX mispacks give me hope for receiving some extra teams. I think I actually ordered some though...
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Post by: Ozymandias
Still anxiously awaiting my KoW rulebook...
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Post by: angelofvengeance
Did you back the KoW v2 campaign? Cause you can download it right now from Mantic Digital for free.
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Post by: Theophony
@grimdork, Reinaldo the hard was free to everyone with the $50 pledge and up. The "extra teams" we're the stretch goals and you should have them on top and the main teams all together in a separate bag below.
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Post by: GrimDork
All of my bags were separate I believe. But I was fairly sure you only got one free team a season and I've got 4 lol.
Ronaldo looks OK but the feather and top of life are very flimsy so cleaning will take care.
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Post by: NTRabbit
My dual package arrived yesterday, had everything from KoW I was supposed to get in it, but I haven't had the chance to see if any of the DBX stuff in there was in excess of what I was supposed to receive. There were 3 additional baggies of sports stars on top of one large bag called DBX Wave 2 Frenzy Bag
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Post by: Wehrkind
Theophony wrote:Reinaldo the hard was free to everyone with the $50 pledge and up.
Was Reinaldo the Hard a Kingdom Death crossover?
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Post by: GrimDork
The Bard was an end-game stretch goal. I think they may have even been out of other stretch goals they wanted to do, but people kept badgering them for a Bard hero. I think they finally caved and made the Bard in Ronnie's image. I think.
I don't believe it had anything to do with Kingdom Death.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
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Post by: GrimDork
Derp. I see now that it says Hard and not bard.
I'm like, I dunno tired or something. TGIF I guess.
70422
Post by: NTRabbit
Champ, I say, Champagne comedy, son
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Post by: Wehrkind
I can't exalt this hard enough Man, I miss Foghorn Leghorn...
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Post by: Theophony
Stupid autocorrect, Reinaldo is cursed I tell you CURSED.
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
He is now.
Just need some GreenmStuff...
Boy, I really hope the Lion doesn't roll a certain result on the injury location table. Automatically Appended Next Post: Back on topic, have we seen any sprue picks for the Salamandars or Naiads?
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Post by: Compel
I got a "You were out" today when I wasn't expecting anything. Have mantic started shipping the hardback books?
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Post by: Bolognesus
I seem to remember they had started shipping living legend pledges in no particular order. Being in the UK chances are you'd get yours relatively quickly so it might just be.
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Post by: Compel
That's the thing, I got my combined Dreadball Xtreme and KOW softback/Blaine more than a week ago, that's why I'm confused.
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Post by: Bolognesus
Oh, okay. I don't think they're shipping the remaining bits yet. Sorry for the confusion!
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Post by: mattjgilbert
My rule book and counters turned up yesterday. No shipping notice, they just arrived. I didn't get notice of the first package either (the combined dbx one).
I thought I had a ton of extra teams but then went back and realised all the frenzy pledges got double teams and these were the extra bags I got.
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Post by: RobertsMinis
Hopefully my rulebooks and Blaine will turn up soon then!
70422
Post by: NTRabbit
mattjgilbert wrote:I thought I had a ton of extra teams but then went back and realised all the frenzy pledges got double teams and these were the extra bags I got.
Same for me. My box had the KoW counters and hardback and softback in it though, so no need for an extra box to be sent. Cheaper that way and all.
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Post by: JoeRugby
I got my KOW and DBX package today.
Ding Blaine is cool as really happy with that.
By DBX order is completely wrong thoug I put in for some zombies, and some mvp's no teams.
And I've been sent 6 teams so it seems they have had a right mare with the DBX packing.
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Post by: Ozymandias
 angelofvengeance wrote:
Did you back the KoW v2 campaign? Cause you can download it right now from Mantic Digital for free.
Nope, preordered it like a rube.
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Post by: RiTides
Waiting on mine too Ozy, but at least it's in the mail!
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Post by: Swastakowey
We got ours (pre ordered from Mantic) here in NZ on Saturday. (today is Monday afternoon) so I am sure the rest of the world can't be too far away from getting theirs.
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Post by: RivenSkull
I had ordered a bunch of the zombies during the kickstarter. So far no notice or delivery.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
I just picked up my KoW/DBX combo platter. I got a note saying that the hardback, tokens and markers will follow in a subsequent wave. But I actually received everything mentioned. Mantic...
I also have 3 missing teams and got 1 team I didn't order.
EDIT: Looks like the packing form omitted "Season Maximizors" for some reason, so I only received single sized teams instead of double sized teams.
53516
Post by: Chute82
I ordered my rulebook through my FLGS so I will have to give them a call to see if it came in. Seen a few KoW 2 rulebooks on eBay so I have hope it might of arrived at the shop. If not there is always next week, no rush.
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Post by: judgedoug
BobtheInquisitor wrote:
He is now.
Just need some GreenStuff...
Boy, I really hope the Lion doesn't roll a certain result on the injury location table.
From my favorite RPG of all time, Space Infantry
don't roll hit location 31-35
1
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Post by: Necros
Hardback rulebook showed up today. Lookin good on my first flip-through. Love that new book smell! Gonna have to see what I need to get my night goblins up and running. I think I asked this before but prolly missed it, did they say when the official lizardman list would be out?
And what would be a good counts as for Sigmarines... Basileans? or would the models be too big?
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Lizardmen list is on their google docs thing and will be in the "minor races" print book by the end of the year.
Sigmarines could stand in for Elohi in the Basilean list, especially the winged ones.
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Post by: Necros
Yeah I was just looking through the Basilean list.. looks like they could be a mix of sigmarites and empire, and that's pretty much how I was planning to build my army anyhow
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Post by: GrimDork
GOod gravy. I just realized I've had this stuff since friday and haven't even looked at it since the initial scan. Where is my brain...
Using Sigmarines as Elohi... interesting. Their cost may even be manageable when you consider the 40mm footprint of the Angels (that's what they're on right? Ogre sized?).
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Yep, Elohi are 40mm bases.
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Post by: cygnnus
GrimDork wrote:GOod gravy. I just realized I've had this stuff since friday and haven't even looked at it since the initial scan. Where is my brain...
Using Sigmarines as Elohi... interesting. Their cost may even be manageable when you consider the 40mm footprint of the Angels (that's what they're on right? Ogre sized?).
Dang... No shipping notice, no rules, nothing yet... I mean, i got the .pdf, but it's not the same. I wants it!
Valete,
JohnS
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Post by: JoshInJapan
Well, you're not the only one. Did you pledge for a lot?
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Post by: Theophony
 cygnnus wrote: GrimDork wrote:GOod gravy. I just realized I've had this stuff since friday and haven't even looked at it since the initial scan. Where is my brain...
Using Sigmarines as Elohi... interesting. Their cost may even be manageable when you consider the 40mm footprint of the Angels (that's what they're on right? Ogre sized?).
Dang... No shipping notice, no rules, nothing yet... I mean, i got the .pdf, but it's not the same. I wants it!
Valete,
JohnS
Same boat here. Just living legend (that's the $50 one right?)
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Post by: Gimgamgoo
Yeah. The long wait here too. $50 Living legend upped to over $100 on extras.
My main fear is being so far down the back of the queue that the Blaine mould will be about worn out and I'll get a model covered in flash with no decent detail.
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Post by: timetowaste85
I'm waiting for mine still. I had to have it shipped to the work address, not home. So...not sure when I'll have it. 
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
Haven't seen anything in SoCal yet either, but I guess that's karma for getting my Kingdom Death guys so quickly.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
No DBX/KoW here in northern MI yet.
Oh well, maybe tomorrow...
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Post by: JoshInJapan
Got my box last night. I haven't had time to go through it, but I forgot that I had backed Dreadball Extreme-- I haven't even opened the Wave 1 Box. The book is nice, though.
On a side note, is anyone interested in a Frenzy pledge, essentially untouched? I don't see myself ever actually playing D:X.
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Post by: cygnnus
JoshInJapan wrote:Got my box last night. I haven't had time to go through it, but I forgot that I had backed Dreadball Extreme-- I haven't even opened the Wave 1 Box. The book is nice, though.
On a side note, is anyone interested in a Frenzy pledge, essentially untouched? I don't see myself ever actually playing D:X.
Dang, Josh... You beat me from Japan! Harrumph!
Valete,
JohnS
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Post by: judgedoug
I would be, but shipping from Japan to the USA has always been awful, at least from HLJ :/
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
Shipping from Japan to the US isn't too bad. Size and weight are big factors naturally, but it's usually cheaper in Japan then in the US for a comparable item.
We ship crap from the Grandparents' house to our place in the States all the time.
HLJ is a tad bit overpriced unfortunately I feel when it comes to shipping.
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Post by: NTRabbit
Ogre Hunter render, first KoW mini in a while that's coming to retail rather than Kickstarter. Zombie Trolls coming soon, those and others for November release.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Awesome!
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Post by: GrimDork
Yeah that's not bad. Looks pretty proportionate. Looking forward to zombie trolls. If I can't get enough of the ones that come with DS, May need moar.
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Post by: NTRabbit
The only downside is that all of these things are going to be in metal
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Post by: Nostromodamus
NTRabbit wrote:The only downside is that all of these things are going to be in metal
Yay! My 2nd favorite medium!
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Post by: Baragash
I hate Restic, but I much prefer it for Ogre-sized models compared to metal.
On Facebook one of the Mantic guys said there's a load of non-KS stuff at various stages of development for KoW.
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
Has any of the new Ogre stuff been released out into retail yet?
Wouldn't mind some Braves.
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Post by: Theophony
But....But.....But.....without kickstarter how will we feel entitled?
glad our little Mantic has finally grown up and is now making strides on its own. Im sure we will still see them use it for Warpath, and probably other events, but im glad to see new things happen alongside the KS.
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Post by: Thraxas Of Turai
Glad to see a move towards some traditional retail releases for KOW, seems like an age since something came out under its own steam.
It is good to see that the first print run of the KOW 2 rulebook sold out as well, good news for the KOW community.
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Post by: CaptainLoken
Not so good for us refugees that WANT a book...now I have to wait just a bit more...oh well!
I'm glad that Mantic is doing great! I like their rules, and the game is fun to play. I just want my fluff!!!
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Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim
Any US KOW backers receive an unexpected invoice for import/duty fees?
DHL just sent me a $50+ invoice for duty-fees owed, which i've never received during previous fulfillment, or when receiving product from Mantic in the past.
Considering the gak condition they delivered my box in, I would be livid if I suddenly need to pay them extra for the privilege. :-p
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Did you get your stuff yet? Or are they holding it until they receive payment?
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Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim
They delivered several days ago. The box was in abysmal shape, had been opened somewhere in transit and covered with tape reading "resealed"...
I don't know if the missing items are from Mantic mispack for DHL's doing (who didn't even bother to deliver to my home but outsourced to Penske for the last leg of it).
And without any mention, I suddenly got a bill from them for $40 of import fees, and an $11 "deferrment"?
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Oh, haven't got my DBX/KoW shipment yet (which were apparently sent out "first") and hoped my stuff wouldn't be held ransom.
Never heard of US folks having to pay import fees on miniature KS' before because last time I checked the merchandise falls under a category that isn't subject to them.
Seen a few people mention it though, whereas others received no bills.
Weird.
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Post by: Tamereth
Glad to see new stuff coming out without a kickstarter involved. And more zombie trolls to go with the DS ones, yay for my undead.
If they could have 1 or 2 new units come out a month from now on I think they will do well on it. Nice to keep momentum up on the game with version 2 seaming to be a bit of a hit.
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
Mine showed up yesterday, but I don't think it was DHL that delivered it. Thankfully the box was pretty sturdy, and for once everything arrived relatively unscathed.
Still had my DBX stuff mispacked though.
I was a bit miffed with the art print this time around. It's smaller than the ones from the other campaigns, and it's not even signed! Would have been a nice touch to have it similar to all the other signed prints they've sent out. A small nitpick is all it is though.
My Stormcasts are soooooo going to be put to work in a Basiliean army!
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Post by: Azazelx
NTRabbit wrote:The only downside is that all of these things are going to be in metal
It really depends on how multipart it is, and how well (or badly) Mantic make the connection points. The Basiliean Elohi characters were a fething horrible joke, since their wings have no chance of staying on without way too much hassle drilling and pinning, which could have been averted by making the wells and pins much deeper in the actual models. If they're done sensibly and not obliviously, then they should be fine.
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Post by: skrulnik
Mine was left in the front hall of my apartment building.
They forgot the apartment number on the address.
If I hadn't noticed the Mantic tape all over it, I don't know if I would have realized the package was for me.
Ronaldo was missing, but i got 6 dreadball teams I wasn't expecting.
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Post by: Polonius
 skrulnik wrote:Mine was left in the front hall of my apartment building.
They forgot the apartment number on the address.
If I hadn't noticed the Mantic tape all over it, I don't know if I would have realized the package was for me.
Ronaldo was missing, but i got 6 dreadball teams I wasn't expecting.
And I say, Brother Skrulnik, can I can get an "Almost!"
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Post by: greenskin lynn
 Azazelx wrote: NTRabbit wrote:The only downside is that all of these things are going to be in metal
It really depends on how multipart it is, and how well (or badly) Mantic make the connection points. The Basiliean Elohi characters were a fething horrible joke, since their wings have no chance of staying on without way too much hassle drilling and pinning, which could have been averted by making the wells and pins much deeper in the actual models. If they're done sensibly and not obliviously, then they should be fine.
yea, my elohi live in the box of shame, someday i might use them for something, minus the wings
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Post by: Azazelx
I think the only hope for my metal Elohi might be to possibly use the restic wings from their underlings. Maybe. One day.
Has there been any acknowledgement from Mantic about how badly the DBX shippng has gone? It seems to be their absolute worst effort yet, with the only upsides being that I'm not involved this time, and that those people who are are mostly getting a gakload of extra teams for free.
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Post by: ArtIsGreat
If thats a mawbeast on his shoulder it be far more ridiculous looking.
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
I almost wonder if they just tossed the extra teams in as some sort of apology for dragging this thing out for so long.
I got extra teams too. Seems like everyone is. Has anyone not gotten extra teams?
Curious to find out what Barzam gets since he had a very small order. Would be funny to find out he ends up with a bunch of extra teams, since he didn't order any of them at all.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
I'd be happy to just get what I paid for right now, regardless of any extra gak they threw in.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
I got 1 extra team and 3 missing teams, does that count?
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Post by: NTRabbit
Azazelx wrote: NTRabbit wrote:The only downside is that all of these things are going to be in metal
It really depends on how multipart it is, and how well (or badly) Mantic make the connection points. The Basiliean Elohi characters were a fething horrible joke, since their wings have no chance of staying on without way too much hassle drilling and pinning, which could have been averted by making the wells and pins much deeper in the actual models. If they're done sensibly and not obliviously, then they should be fine.
Doesn't matter how many parts or connections to me, I just don't like metal minis, and it's even worse when they're that big - my Chief Radgrad looks nice and has big, solid connections for the arms, but he's just too damned big and heavy in metal, and even worse he's balanced on one foot.
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Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim
Well that sucked... I just had to pay that $51 import fee... to receive the models.... that were my payment for prior work for Mantic.
I love paying for my "payment". Way to go gakky DHL... i've never had to pay anything prior.
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Post by: TheAuldGrump
Might be Customs and Excise that is to blame, not DHL - weird things happen with customs. (I know of an entire shipment of foodstuffs that was destroyed because one of the packages in the shipment contained *gasp!* Haggis!)
The folks dealing with Customs are not happy campers these days.
The Auld Grump
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
...the Haggis probably deserved to be destroyed, just for being Haggis.
I'd contact Mantic about those customs fees. As a US customer I don't think you were supposed to be getting hit with those.
I'm wondering if I can run some Stormcast Eternals as Basilean infantry of some sort (Men at Arms/ Paladins). 3 of them take up almost the same amount of space as a 10 man unit of regular Mantic guys- would that be allowed? I don't want to count them as Elohi since they don't have wings or anything.
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Post by: DaveC
Both the KoW and DBX KS FAQ had this on shipping
Where will my package be shipped from?
All of the Kickstarter rewards will be shipped directly from our warehouse in Nottingham, UK, so our EU backers will not have to pay import taxes.
also
Please check with your local customs office for any charges that may apply to your shipment as you will be responsible for these.
So import fees are a matter for backers not Mantic
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Post by: Azazelx
NTRabbit wrote:
Doesn't matter how many parts or connections to me, I just don't like metal minis, and it's even worse when they're that big - my Chief Radgrad looks nice and has big, solid connections for the arms, but he's just too damned big and heavy in metal, and even worse he's balanced on one foot.
Fair enough. Metal is still my favourite material for most models, so we'll just have to live with our preferences being different.
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Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim
highlord tamburlaine wrote:...the Haggis probably deserved to be destroyed, just for being Haggis.
I'd contact Mantic about those customs fees. As a US customer I don't think you were supposed to be getting hit with those.
I'm wondering if I can run some Stormcast Eternals as Basilean infantry of some sort (Men at Arms/ Paladins). 3 of them take up almost the same amount of space as a 10 man unit of regular Mantic guys- would that be allowed? I don't want to count them as Elohi since they don't have wings or anything.
I actually just spoke with Ronnie, and he said there is a shipping boogey-man, who strikes maybe 5-10 people every Kickstarter. In his experience, DHL will not bend, even if Mantic pressures them to do so, but he said it sucks, and he knows it, and said he would send me a bunch of freebies to make up for it. :-)
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Post by: Bolognesus
highlord tamburlaine wrote:...the Haggis probably deserved to be destroyed, just for being Haggis.
I'd contact Mantic about those customs fees. As a US customer I don't think you were supposed to be getting hit with those.
I'm wondering if I can run some Stormcast Eternals as Basilean infantry of some sort (Men at Arms/ Paladins). 3 of them take up almost the same amount of space as a 10 man unit of regular Mantic guys- would that be allowed? I don't want to count them as Elohi since they don't have wings or anything.
I wouldn't be overly happy about it; they look like large infantry and that makes it a bit of a confusing sight given how the stats of MaA really aren't remotely like what you'd expect from large infantry (and 40mm depth of large infantry is a regiment while 40mm depth of infantry is just a troop, and so on...). Be a pleasant enough opponent and you'll get away with it, but it's stretching it.
Personally I'd say it would be better if you *did* play them as Elohi and they'd just be understood to float/warp/whatever.
Oh and they wouldn't get close to meeting Mantic's guidelines for minimum number of models/unit they just released, although it seems more than a few of us play a unit or two with the same issue .
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Post by: Prestor Jon
 Bolognesus wrote: highlord tamburlaine wrote:...the Haggis probably deserved to be destroyed, just for being Haggis.
I'd contact Mantic about those customs fees. As a US customer I don't think you were supposed to be getting hit with those.
I'm wondering if I can run some Stormcast Eternals as Basilean infantry of some sort (Men at Arms/ Paladins). 3 of them take up almost the same amount of space as a 10 man unit of regular Mantic guys- would that be allowed? I don't want to count them as Elohi since they don't have wings or anything.
I wouldn't be overly happy about it; they look like large infantry and that makes it a bit of a confusing sight given how the stats of MaA really aren't remotely like what you'd expect from large infantry (and 40mm depth of large infantry is a regiment while 40mm depth of infantry is just a troop, and so on...). Be a pleasant enough opponent and you'll get away with it, but it's stretching it.
Personally I'd say it would be better if you *did* play them as Elohi and they'd just be understood to float/warp/whatever.
Oh and they wouldn't get close to meeting Mantic's guidelines for minimum number of models/unit they just released, although it seems more than a few of us play a unit or two with the same issue .
The newly released unit size minimums are only going to be enforced in competitive tournament settings. If you have a gaming group/club that you'll be primarily playing with/against and they're ok with it then you should be fine. If you are going to be playing in tournaments or looking to play pick up games you'd probably run into some problems and confusion. The scale of the Stormcast Eternals makes them ogre sized in KoW so you could run them as an ogre army instead of Basileans possibly. That might be a better fit.
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
Yeah, I'm thinking running them as Ogres is probably a better choice.
We'll use the Prosecutors or whatever the flying guys are as Elohi.
31456
Post by: Bolognesus
Proxying them as ogres would work great. One or two of the starters and you'd have a recently sized army pretty much straight up. I think moist units would 'look' their power level pretty nicely, too. The cav character would work as a chariot-mounted hero so everything pretty much works.
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Post by: GrimDork
Bah, careful guys. If you keep this up people will start putting a single space marine on a regiment base just to prove that ten guys can handle an army
31456
Post by: Bolognesus
Most places i play that sort of behaviour would still get you a dreadsock to the noggin so that solves itself.
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Post by: privateer4hire
Prestor Jon wrote: Bolognesus wrote: highlord tamburlaine wrote:...the Haggis probably deserved to be destroyed, just for being Haggis.
I'd contact Mantic about those customs fees. As a US customer I don't think you were supposed to be getting hit with those.
I'm wondering if I can run some Stormcast Eternals as Basilean infantry of some sort (Men at Arms/ Paladins). 3 of them take up almost the same amount of space as a 10 man unit of regular Mantic guys- would that be allowed? I don't want to count them as Elohi since they don't have wings or anything.
I wouldn't be overly happy about it; they look like large infantry and that makes it a bit of a confusing sight given how the stats of MaA really aren't remotely like what you'd expect from large infantry (and 40mm depth of large infantry is a regiment while 40mm depth of infantry is just a troop, and so on...). Be a pleasant enough opponent and you'll get away with it, but it's stretching it.
Personally I'd say it would be better if you *did* play them as Elohi and they'd just be understood to float/warp/whatever.
Oh and they wouldn't get close to meeting Mantic's guidelines for minimum number of models/unit they just released, although it seems more than a few of us play a unit or two with the same issue .
The newly released unit size minimums are only going to be enforced in competitive tournament settings. If you have a gaming group/club that you'll be primarily playing with/against and they're ok with it then you should be fine. If you are going to be playing in tournaments or looking to play pick up games you'd probably run into some problems and confusion. The scale of the Stormcast Eternals makes them ogre sized in KoW so you could run them as an ogre army instead of Basileans possibly. That might be a better fit.
So units will have a minimum number of models (instead of the previous 'do what you want as long as the footprint remains proper') for competitive/organized play?
Is that what is meant by unit size minimum?
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Post by: infinite_array
privateer4hire wrote:
So units will have a minimum number of models (instead of the previous 'do what you want as long as the footprint remains proper') for competitive/organized play?
Is that what is meant by unit size minimum?
Yup. Apparently the new standard is:
1 - Minimum models 1
3 - Minimum models 2
5 - Minimum models 3
10 - Minimum models 6
20 - Minimum models 11
40 - Minimum models 21
60 - Minimum models 41
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Post by: Daedleh
privateer4hire wrote:Prestor Jon wrote: Bolognesus wrote: highlord tamburlaine wrote:...the Haggis probably deserved to be destroyed, just for being Haggis.
I'd contact Mantic about those customs fees. As a US customer I don't think you were supposed to be getting hit with those.
I'm wondering if I can run some Stormcast Eternals as Basilean infantry of some sort (Men at Arms/ Paladins). 3 of them take up almost the same amount of space as a 10 man unit of regular Mantic guys- would that be allowed? I don't want to count them as Elohi since they don't have wings or anything.
I wouldn't be overly happy about it; they look like large infantry and that makes it a bit of a confusing sight given how the stats of MaA really aren't remotely like what you'd expect from large infantry (and 40mm depth of large infantry is a regiment while 40mm depth of infantry is just a troop, and so on...). Be a pleasant enough opponent and you'll get away with it, but it's stretching it.
Personally I'd say it would be better if you *did* play them as Elohi and they'd just be understood to float/warp/whatever.
Oh and they wouldn't get close to meeting Mantic's guidelines for minimum number of models/unit they just released, although it seems more than a few of us play a unit or two with the same issue .
The newly released unit size minimums are only going to be enforced in competitive tournament settings. If you have a gaming group/club that you'll be primarily playing with/against and they're ok with it then you should be fine. If you are going to be playing in tournaments or looking to play pick up games you'd probably run into some problems and confusion. The scale of the Stormcast Eternals makes them ogre sized in KoW so you could run them as an ogre army instead of Basileans possibly. That might be a better fit.
So units will have a minimum number of models (instead of the previous 'do what you want as long as the footprint remains proper') for competitive/organized play?
Is that what is meant by unit size minimum?
Just a quick note that 'do what you want as long as the footprint remains proper' hasn't ever been the official word. The official word has always been "aim for no less than 70-80%" and the rulebook states "reasonably close". There was a recent influx of posts in various groups showing armies that do not convey the Mass Battles aim of KoW, so Mantic are releasing stronger guidelines of absolute bear minimums (that are still extremely lenient).
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Post by: Theophony
 DaveC wrote:Both the KoW and DBX KS FAQ had this on shipping
Where will my package be shipped from?
All of the Kickstarter rewards will be shipped directly from our warehouse in Nottingham, UK, so our EU backers will not have to pay import taxes.
also
Please check with your local customs office for any charges that may apply to your shipment as you will be responsible for these.
So import fees are a matter for backers not Mantic
And another reason to not back their next project  . Don't they have a U.S. office to ship from?
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Post by: Baragash
GrimDork wrote:Bah, careful guys. If you keep this up people will start putting a single space marine on a regiment base just to prove that ten guys can handle an army
Someone somewhere has actually made movement trays for their Space Marines to use as a KoW army.............. 
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Post by: Tyr13
Theophony wrote: DaveC wrote:Both the KoW and DBX KS FAQ had this on shipping
Where will my package be shipped from?
All of the Kickstarter rewards will be shipped directly from our warehouse in Nottingham, UK, so our EU backers will not have to pay import taxes.
also
Please check with your local customs office for any charges that may apply to your shipment as you will be responsible for these.
So import fees are a matter for backers not Mantic
And another reason to not back their next project . Don't they have a U.S. office to ship from?
While I do feel your pain (that right there was the reason why I didnt back Bones 3), I think youre overestimating Mantic here. Theyre still pretty tiny. Foreign offices are still pretty far off at this point.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
they do have a cupboard under the stairs at an (lawyers?) office which is technically a US presence is why they can run KS in $,
but it's not somewhere anybody actually works (maybe a sales rep?) as far as I'm aware
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Post by: GrimDork
6 11 and so on? Those are teeny requirements, think I'm good.
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Post by: skullking
Bolognesus wrote:Most places i play that sort of behaviour would still get you a dreadsock to the noggin so that solves itself.
Only us old timers fear the Dreadsock anymore. We're the same ones who still have terrain with colored moss, and gasp whenever anything's 'pre-measured'.
These kids today aren't afraid of getting socked with a plastic Hellbrute.
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Post by: Bolognesus
In my experience proper fear of dreadsocking can be readily attained through even moderately frequent demonstrations.
...As an added bonus, it makes such a lovely sound when you connect
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
I think with the advent of plastic it's the process is now officially to apply a gymbag (not sock) containing the new chaos fortress to their heads
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Post by: skullking
Not to get too far off topic, but the ultimate in 40k heavy blunt objects would have been the limited ed. metal thunderhawk.
On Topic: I really like how they've made the beastmen for Kings of war into 'The Herd'. And they have cool stuff like elephant stampedes. I also like that they aren't filthy depraved blood crazed animal people. They seem much more mellow, and 'connected' to nature, and the animal kingdom, whereas the Elves and forest shamblers are more attuned to the Plants and elements.
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
Going to have to check out that Beastmen list.
Maybe I can put all these wolf, rhino, and other assorted animal people to use in that.
I was thinking of getting those new savage hunters or whatever they were called in Bones 3 as it was, they might make good infantry for the herd, especially if they can run lots of large/ monstrous infantry.
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Post by: skullking
highlord tamburlaine wrote:Going to have to check out that Beastmen list.
Maybe I can put all these wolf, rhino, and other assorted animal people to use in that.
I was thinking of getting those new savage hunters or whatever they were called in Bones 3 as it was, they might make good infantry for the herd, especially if they can run lots of large/ monstrous infantry.
It's pretty cool, some units can have 'hunting animals' which is a one time use ranged attack of a swarm of lil critters attacking a unit. There's the stampede, which is Rhinos, elephants, or other big lumbering beasts. And even an 'Avatar' creature, which is a giant animal which is actually a hero/character. I sort of imagine it's something like Aslan, or the weird deer thing in Princess mononoke.
Here's the link to the beta lists.
http://www.manticgames.com/free-rules.html
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Post by: TheWaspinator
I'm pretty ok with the idea of using Stormcast in place of normal-sized infantry as long as you use a tray or something to make the unit footprint match.
A variant on the idea: use them as Paladin Knights. You'll be closer to the full model count that way.
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Post by: Wehrkind
Is there an KoW 2.0 errata or anything out there? Something that summarizes the min-model count and maybe some FAQ action?
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Post by: Baragash
 skullking wrote:Not to get too far off topic, but the ultimate in 40k heavy blunt objects would have been the limited ed. metal thunderhawk.
On Topic: I really like how they've made the beastmen for Kings of war into 'The Herd'. And they have cool stuff like elephant stampedes. I also like that they aren't filthy depraved blood crazed animal people. They seem much more mellow, and 'connected' to nature, and the animal kingdom, whereas the Elves and forest shamblers are more attuned to the Plants and elements.
Off topic: you must have big socks
On topic: there a "generic" large infantry entry in The Herd to cover a range of things like Minotaurs, Rhinomen, any-large-infantry-man - Brutes Automatically Appended Next Post: FAQ is mostly done, not sure about release date
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Post by: Wehrkind
Great, thanks!
The herd list does look really interesting. Centaurs and werewolves all in one place A little sad the werewolves don't have some sort of regen ability though. I worry they might not be werewolf tough.
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Post by: mattjgilbert
The lycans currently do have regen. You need to keep an eye on the lists as they develop during beta testing.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XgQY5vVHs_V19N_2lsrpk59SIF9hi6_KDBqkmyitRro/htmlview#gid=812440539
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Post by: Wehrkind
Well, I'll be damned! Thanks Matt. I was looking at the PDF on Mantic's site, not the spreadsheet there. Better bookmark that bad boy
I don't suppose they are going to dial down the Breath(20) on the lizard man monsters any time soon? Faced two of them in a 1500 game the other day and they just wrecked a horde of ork greatax. Sad times :(
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Post by: TheAuldGrump
highlord tamburlaine wrote:...the Haggis probably deserved to be destroyed, just for being Haggis.
I'd contact Mantic about those customs fees. As a US customer I don't think you were supposed to be getting hit with those.
I'm wondering if I can run some Stormcast Eternals as Basilean infantry of some sort (Men at Arms/ Paladins). 3 of them take up almost the same amount of space as a 10 man unit of regular Mantic guys- would that be allowed? I don't want to count them as Elohi since they don't have wings or anything.
Hey! I happen to like Haggis!
The Auld grump - who also likes Black Pudding.
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Post by: mattjgilbert
The drakes are going down to 16. We've made a ton of new changes which should go up tomorrow evening.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
I wish I could just hibernate till then!
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Post by: Pacific
Has anyone noticed that these little dudes are now available for pre-order?
Apologies if this is old news.
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