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Post by: Ruglud
An update was asked about on Facebook earlier, Jarek responded:
Jarek Ever
not today, however, I will try not to spoil too much... we might have a very good news next week. lol Fingers crossed!
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Post by: Panic
yeah,
He still hasn't answered my PMs on facebook should I swear at him?
Panic...
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Post by: Sheep
Has he "seen" them? If you're not actually "friends" your msg is sitting in the "other msgs" inbox, which doesn't generate a notification.
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Post by: TheSecretSquig
To PRODOS Games........
As a KS Backer (and quite a large one), please take all the time you need in the world to sort this out with Fox. Seriously! I'd rather wait another 12 months and recieve a top quality set of minatures based on the AVP world than something rushed out that F"%3's Fox off so much that they decide to pull the plug and we lose what potentially could be an amazing minature line that people will love.
Even if approved tomorrow, NOTHING would or could be posted out to all backers this close to Christmas for people to have some new toys to open. So next week, kick back, relax, and start winding down for Christmas. Seriously.
Yes I'm disapointed. But I still genuinely believe that I'll receive a top quality set of new toys based in a universe I've loved for 30 years. I'd rather wait and get something that's fully supported and endorsed by all the stakeholders, than potentially lose it. People need to stop being the 'Internet Tough Guy' and just kick back, and let PRODOS get on with what they need to do with Fox. If you are anything like me, you've a queue of other stuff waiting in boxes for some love and attention on your painting desks. I for one have blow the dust off a Perfect Grade RX-78 Gundam that's been gathering dust for over 10 years.
Christmas and New Year is approaching. Chill out, relax. We'll all get our things. Given people some breathing space to work through their problems rather than inflame them over a keyboard.
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Post by: Panic
yeah,
1 backer wants you to take your time... Listen to him.
Ignore the 99.9% want the models they pledged for that are rotting away in your warehouse.
Panic...
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Post by: richred_uk
I don't massively care how long it takes - I'm still waiting for Judge Dredd to finish, I was supposed to collect Winter War at Salute 14 and I might be able to collect it at Salute 15.
But - the delay isn't improving the miniatures - 90% of them are already cast. If we believe Prodos, it's sorting out stuff like the packaging and fluff. Honestly, I backed this for the minis, the rest I can take or leave, so the delay isn't improving what I care about, but it might be necessary.
Prodos' communication has seen improvement after this latest blow up - on this board at least - their FB page is still patchy. I hope that improvement continues as if it backslides to how it has been, then I will revert to the disgruntled state they put me in. The attitude to the backers on this KS (from both Prodos and the 'white knight' backers has made sure I wouldn't pre order from Prodos again in the future.
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Post by: Angelic_Scars
 Panic wrote:yeah,
1 backer wants you to take your time... Listen to him.
Ignore the 99.9% want the models they pledged for that are rotting away in your warehouse.
Panic...
Make that two backers.
Mistakes have been made, I am not overly confident in Prodos' communication skills, or their punctuality but there is no reason to doubt the quality or that tremendous progress has been made.
Nor do I doubt their motivations. They have no motive to piss people off, and every motivation to deliver what was promised. It doesn't suit them to have their name dragged through the mud. They may not have gone about it the best way, they certainly aren't perfect but despite all the missteps there is still very little reason to doubt that they will deliver as we have all seen so much of the progress in addition to the above motivations.
If it takes a few more months then that is no big deal for me. I am happy to wait to get a great product. Certainly I can wait when they are so close, and sending out those miniatures now would be an extra financial burden.
Besides, if needed, I can always get angry in a few months.
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Post by: Panic
yeah,
It's cool you're happy to wait for the finished product.
It's really great, your ability to wait is almost inspirational!
I'm waiting too, sadly I don't have your god like levels of patience and I've gotten bored of waiting.
I also don't like be lied to. Are you happy being lied to?
Prodos said they could do two waves.
Why have you got issue with Prodos doing like they said they could and posting the miniatures that have been gathering dust in their warehouse since June?
Panic...
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Post by: adlard.matthew
Must admit one is also happy to wait. Once one realised that because of the whole delay was the 'Old Sega V Gearbox' cropping up again it became more understandable.
Yes Fox clearly did no understand KS and that was a mistake as it led to serious lags in communication, which could have been said earlier, but at least we have got there.
Obviously some of the more insane rants and paranoid conspiracies apart from mild entertainment, have ones sure, not helped in the least, far point on the arguments that were constructive.
What have seen (Previous posts) shows that things are moving so looking forward to the finished article. If its late, its late, however that is the risk with KS, apart from failing. At least this one has not gone the way of Defiance.
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
The longer you wait, the more opportunities there are for things to go wrong. Prodos might not have the money to ship 12 months from now. Fox could pull the license for other reasons. There might be internal drama that tears the company apart. There could be a flood. The list goes on.
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Post by: BrookM
They still have something resembling an income from Warzone, right? So that should cover some problems should those arise.
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Post by: Ronin_eX
 BrookM wrote:They still have something resembling an income from Warzone, right? So that should cover some problems should those arise.
That is correct, Warzone is booming along and has seen full retail release in LGSs in the UK, Europe, and even North America (I think) as well as various online stores. It has been getting fairly regular releases and rules expansions as well.
So they at least have a steady stream of income other than AvP. And as a Warzone backer, they were late (probably later than they are going to be on AvP at the end of the day), AvP ended up making communications somewhat infrequent by the end (as I suspect Warzone is doing for AvP right now since they recently released a bunch of new starter sets and minis for it; not to mention the minis they did for Mophidius's Mutant Chronicles KS). At the end of the day though? I am fully pleased with the end product I received (even if a lot of it has since seen re-sculpts because the sculptor they got for the latter half and for AvP is amazing) and will continue giving them my business.
Miniature KS's tend to be scope-creep central and being at all successful on them brings with it community pressure to ramp said scope-creep up to insane levels. Those that don't or do so too slowly (at what may even be a sustainable level) get criticized for being bad deals. In the end you can select two of quality, punctuality, and cost (maybe). The funding format is still going through growing pains (many associated with scope-creep causing delays which leads in to massive upward shifts in expected shipping costs) and we are already seeing a lot of things scaling back. More conservative stretch goals, no longer offering crazy-good deals on shipping (often asking backers pay it in full at a later date), and several other steps. And of course there will always be two competing choruses of backers chanting for either punctuality or for them to take their time and get everything 100% perfect before shipping the first box out.
Folks have a right to be upset about a lack of communication, and even a right to be upset about delays. But do know that Prodos aren't in any danger folding overnight, they have products in retail chains internationally and appear to be doing quite well (they've certainly grown at a fairly steady rate) and as a Warzone player, I'm not nervous that the delays from AvP are a signal of the end times. The only issue is they picked up a license from a big player that wasn't as relaxed as their last one (Paradox) and may be in a little over their head. But at the end of the day, I know they'll be doing their level best to get to the fulfillment stage as soon as they can and make sure that all their backers get what they ordered. I was happy with Warzone even after all the delays and getting split in to 3.5 waves. I agree that communication could be improved, but I also don't think folks have much reason to worry over the health of the company. They will fulfill their promises, it will be delayed, but it will get done.
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Post by: SeanDrake
 Ronin_eX wrote: BrookM wrote:They still have something resembling an income from Warzone, right? So that should cover some problems should those arise.
That is correct, Warzone is booming along and has seen full retail release in LGSs in the UK, Europe, and even North America (I think) as well as various online stores. It has been getting fairly regular releases and rules expansions as well.
So they at least have a steady stream of income other than AvP. And as a Warzone backer, they were late (probably later than they are going to be on AvP at the end of the day), AvP ended up making communications somewhat infrequent by the end (as I suspect Warzone is doing for AvP right now since they recently released a bunch of new starter sets and minis for it; not to mention the minis they did for Mophidius's Mutant Chronicles KS). At the end of the day though? I am fully pleased with the end product I received (even if a lot of it has since seen re-sculpts because the sculptor they got for the latter half and for AvP is amazing) and will continue giving them my business.
Miniature KS's tend to be scope-creep central and being at all successful on them brings with it community pressure to ramp said scope-creep up to insane levels. Those that don't or do so too slowly (at what may even be a sustainable level) get criticized for being bad deals. In the end you can select two of quality, punctuality, and cost (maybe). The funding format is still going through growing pains (many associated with scope-creep causing delays which leads in to massive upward shifts in expected shipping costs) and we are already seeing a lot of things scaling back. More conservative stretch goals, no longer offering crazy-good deals on shipping (often asking backers pay it in full at a later date), and several other steps. And of course there will always be two competing choruses of backers chanting for either punctuality or for them to take their time and get everything 100% perfect before shipping the first box out.
Folks have a right to be upset about a lack of communication, and even a right to be upset about delays. But do know that Prodos aren't in any danger folding overnight, they have products in retail chains internationally and appear to be doing quite well (they've certainly grown at a fairly steady rate) and as a Warzone player, I'm not nervous that the delays from AvP are a signal of the end times. The only issue is they picked up a license from a big player that wasn't as relaxed as their last one (Paradox) and may be in a little over their head. But at the end of the day, I know they'll be doing their level best to get to the fulfillment stage as soon as they can and make sure that all their backers get what they ordered. I was happy with Warzone even after all the delays and getting split in to 3.5 waves. I agree that communication could be improved, but I also don't think folks have much reason to worry over the health of the company. They will fulfill their promises, it will be delayed, but it will get done.
While I do not wholly disagree with most of what you said, in regards to the comments about stock in the retail chain I would point out that you can still buy confrontation stuff new off some retailers and as such that may not be the indicator you think.
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Post by: thothkins
 Pacific wrote:However, our job is to make sure that peoples are aware about the progress and they know that the product is not at risk, maybe then we could discuss the future of AvP rather than "possibility of not receiving their stuff" , as this is not the case.
I think that's really the main point.
I'm sure what a lot of (perhaps silent/lurking) posters are waiting on, and really good to hear coming from someone at Prodos.
I have to agree that this was also the point I was waiting for, after a few days of fluttering once the KS page went down.
Like some others, I'm happy to wait for the product. I've waited longer than initially planned for every Kickstarter I've backed, and I've always been delighted by the final products.
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Post by: CURNOW
No Friday update to tell us their isn't a update then 
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Post by: biggusdoggus
 CURNOW wrote:No Friday update to tell us their isn't a update then
There is sort of, if you read facebook.
Jarek Ever damn Holidays... Hope we get the green light by eob Monday, otherwise it will be after Xmas.
53 mins · Like
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Post by: JoeRugby
After Christmas then for the update.
Is this the same update they were trying to get approved a couple of weeks ago? Or did I miss it?
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Post by: Sheep
Same one.
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Post by: biggusdoggus
 JoeRugby wrote:After Christmas then for the update.
Is this the same update they were trying to get approved a couple of weeks ago? Or did I miss it?
There really hasn't been an update worthy of the name since the beginning of November.
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Post by: Ruglud
Facebook posts: Jarek Ever - Hi there, yes, the answer is that we are waiting for approval on written material and packaging, and we were expecting the material this week... I still hope we will get it Monday. Hence, at this stage we are looking to release no earlier than beginning of February. ( 4 weeks for manufacturing to get all job done, the origin of print is in Poland other components are also manufactured in the UE, 100 kg away from our dispatch centre, NOT in CHiNA as someone suggested). Thanks.
Jarek Ever - at this stage we want to release the board game asap, although all models are approved (prototype) we would have to send a 15 samples of the product (in still yet to be approved packaging) of each for final approval. So, as we don;t know how long it will take and to avoid any further delay in that stage we decided to : Get the board game approved, start shipping it, and in the mean time focus on final "add-ons" approval. Please bear in mind, this project is a monster in terms of number of components to be reviewed and approved. Thaks
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Post by: biggusdoggus
Jarek Ever - at this stage we want to release the board game asap, although all models are approved (prototype) we would have to send a 15 samples of the product (in still yet to be approved packaging) of each for final approval.
So the huge stack of boxes of models that Jarek has told us have been gathering dust since the middle of the year STILL aren't actually approved - only the prototypes were? Lord, give me strength.
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Post by: CptJake
All that from FaceBook should have been sent to the KS backers and posted on their forums.
If Jarek can say it via FB, it should be good enough for ALL backers and they should make an effort to give that info to all backers.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
biggusdoggus wrote:Jarek Ever - at this stage we want to release the board game asap, although all models are approved (prototype) we would have to send a 15 samples of the product (in still yet to be approved packaging) of each for final approval.
So the huge stack of boxes of models that Jarek has told us have been gathering dust since the middle of the year STILL aren't actually approved - only the prototypes were? Lord, give me strength.
Apparently.
At this point I'm more eager to get my product just to be done with Prodos than I am to have cool minis.
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Post by: Ruglud
Facebook:
KS Backer - Jarek - Does that mean that the 'add-ons' aren't approved yet as you imply ("and in the mean time focus on final "add-ons" approval").
Previously you'd said that everything but the printed stuff was already approved...? Or is it that you need the add-ons to be approved in the packaging that is still to be approved??
Jarek Ever - only the packaging in not approved for add ons
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Post by: biggusdoggus
 Ruglud wrote:Facebook:
KS Backer - Jarek - Does that mean that the 'add-ons' aren't approved yet as you imply ("and in the mean time focus on final "add-ons" approval").
Previously you'd said that everything but the printed stuff was already approved...? Or is it that you need the add-ons to be approved in the packaging that is still to be approved??
Jarek Ever - only the packaging in not approved for add ons
So he contradicted himself in the space of an hour or so. At this point I'm not inclined to believe a word he says. I think the only thing that would convince me that all is well now is an official update from Fox - not an update that Jerek says is official, I mean a real official update - a statement from a real Fox representative, one that's clearly made by them rather than attributable.
Lie to me once, and I'll forgive you. Lie to me twice and I'll be far more wary. Keep doing so, and don't be surprised when I call you Billy.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
I think you're getting confused by the convoluted approval process used by giant mega corps like Fox
they'll approve the minis (done)
they'll approve the packaging (in the process of being done)
AND they'll have to approve the final product (even though all the individual bits have been approved).... and while it's unlikely they'd demand changes at that stage it's not 100% impossible
(I've seen licensor logos change between when the approved packaging and final release of a product.. oops pulp them and start again, )
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Post by: biggusdoggus
No, I don't think so. This is where Prodos let themselves down by failing to communicate clearly.
In the post requoted from Jarek above, he clearly states that the prototypes of the minis are approved, and by inference, that suggests that the final casts have not been - there can be significant changes between a prototype and a final product - that's why it's called a prototype, so it stands to reason that Fox would want to re-approve the minis at the production stage.
That he then says a while later that only the packaging in not approved simply adds to confusion, and contradicts what he'd previously said.
You're right, it may be that both these things - the production minis and the packaging will be approved together, but nevertheless, it does imply that the minis do need to be approved in their final form.
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Post by: Pacific
biggusdoggus wrote:
In the post requoted from Jarek above, he clearly states that the prototypes of the minis are approved, and by inference, that suggests that the final casts have not been - there can be significant changes between a prototype and a final product - that's why it's called a prototype, so it stands to reason that Fox would want to re-approve the minis at the production stage.
My highlights - I wonder if this is a language/translation issue?
'Prototype' can mean the first completed item used as a template for the others following. So a kind of initial sculpt/original, that once approved, then gets used as a template for the actual production miniature. A 'prototype', in fact!
I can't see otherwise why he would make a big deal of the fact that Fox has approved it, especially as they have mentioned previously that some designs have gone through a dozen or more re-designs before being accepted (the Predalien for instance), if this wasn't as close to a final production miniature as matters.
If that's the case, you either take it as a truth or not, depending on where you sit through Prodos' motivations, the various back and forth that has been going on, and the vagaries and professionalism of the company's internet communications.
Personally, if I were a betting man I would still put solid odds-on for pledgers getting the board game early in the near year, March-April at the latest.
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Post by: Sheep
All of these points are just conjecture until we get a response from Prodos/Jarek/Rob, but that's unlikely considering the precedent.
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Post by: biggusdoggus
you could well be right Pacific, and indeed with much of the problems with this KS being communication related, it would perhaps have been prudent for Prodos to hire somebody who does speak both languages well enough to get their points across without causing confusion. If you can't make 2 consecutive posts without contradiction and confusion whether intentional or not, then you're the wrong man for the job.
I'd basically agree with your timescales March/April seems likely (if we assume it will still happen, and we have no real choice at this point). I doubt it will be earlier - they'll likely get nothing out of Fox until the second week of January now, and then realistically (invoking Pournelle's Law) their 4 week timescale for printing is probably too low. So it will be end of Feb before they are ready to ship at the earliest. Then there's the length of time they'll need to ship - they've said 40-50 parcels per day which seems awfully low given they are only shipping the core boxes in wave 1 - there were circa 2500+ backers, so that's 50 days or 2 months of wave 1 shipping, so the lucky ones might see something in early March, the unlucky ones might have to wait until May at least, even June if they are on the wrong side of the planet.
and only then will they start the process of getting final approval for Wave 2, which includes packaging, the bigger hard covered wargaming rulebook, the 3D terrain which we have no reason to believe is even completed yet to name but a few things - so we can expect that to take another 2-3 months minimum, then manufacturing , then final approval, and only then can they pack the minis in retail boxes and ship wave 2 - and they have (by their numbers) half a million or so minis to pack - that's a lot of boxes to make up and hand fill - months of workm abd then at least 2 more months of actual shipping. We'll be lucky to see wave 2 before next Christmas I should think.
But if I were a betting man, right now I'd rather be betting on a more likely result than the state of this game.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Sheep wrote:All of these points are just conjecture until we get a response from Prodos/Jarek/Rob, but that's unlikely considering the precedent.
Indeed, total conjecture. I'd much rather see a response from Fox right now (yeah I know that won't happen either) - An official statement from them, from an officially identifiable source rather than a member of Prodos staff telling us what they are posting is official, would be a great way to put things back on track. Delays don't matter all that much, but Fox coming out and stating that everything is OK, that there is no IP issue, and that they continue to work closely with Prodos to get this product launched would go a long long way to settling nerves.
Is it not slightly odd that this game was supposed to go retail in time for this Christmas but at no point ever have Fox put out any form of press release telling the world the game is coming? Why would they not do that to try and garner retail interest? The industry regularly previews computer games and movies months in advance, but this has had complete silence from a company which, if the current box art is to be believed, still have their name on the box.
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Post by: cincydooley
So...You all realize that the fact that they're able to get any types of approvals for anything over the next two weeks is practically a Christmas Miracle, right?
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Post by: Pacific
But miracles do happen at Christmas, do you not ever watch the Christmas movie channel?!
biggusdoggus wrote:
But if I were a betting man, right now I'd rather be betting on a more likely result than the state of this game.
I don't even want to think about that!
Right now, I'm just thinking of painting that Predator-using-wrist-computer miniature.
We need some kind of AvP-themed '12 days of Christmas' song to sing while we are waiting..
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Post by: JoeRugby
On the first day of Christmas Prodos promised me;
An update once approved 
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Post by: PomWallaby
News from Prodos forum.
"There will be no update this week due to the holiday and we are still waiting on approval of an update from fox."
I'd be happy with an update just to say Merry Christmas. I hope they don't need Fox approval for that.
Merry Christmas everyone and Happy Holidays if Christmas ain't your thing.
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Post by: Stormonu
Sorry all, I've lost track of what's been happening with AvP - I didn't get in on the KS (looked to chaotic, and issues with others I'd already invested in) and was waiting for the board game version to come out.
What's the current status of the KS? Sounds like the KS has been deleted from the Kickstarter web site and Prodos is waiting for approval on some of the miniatures before it can ship? Or has the whole thing on indefinate hold? Can't muddle through the many pages to make proper sense of where things stand.
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Post by: Pacific
Read back over the past few pages
Summary: Awaiting final approvals from Fox, the game is still on its way.
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Post by: Todosi
It is still on track, just delayed. Best guess for Kickstarters getting wave one is Feb or March.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
It is still on track, just delayed. Best guess for Kickstarters getting wave one is Feb or March.
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Post by: MattRendar
I'm going to hyper sleep ...... Have bishop wake me up when we arrive
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Post by: Pacific
 MattRendar wrote:I'm going to hyper sleep ...... Have bishop wake me up when we arrive
On the seventh day of Christmas, my true love gave to me, seven marines hypersleeping..
..Wait! Too late for that now..
We need some other AvP-orientated games to help pass the time.
Anyone any ideas?
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Post by: CptJake
Pacific wrote: MattRendar wrote:I'm going to hyper sleep ...... Have bishop wake me up when we arrive
On the seventh day of Christmas, my true love gave to me, seven marines hypersleeping..
..Wait! Too late for that now..
We need some other AvP-orientated games to help pass the time.
Anyone any ideas?
This could hold you over: http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/57803/forlorn-hope
Get some minis from Khurasan to replace counters/standees if you desire.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Hopefully it doesn't take 57 years to fulfill...
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Post by: Pacific
Cheers for that, looks very cool!
Love what that person on BGG did with the Kurosan miniatures.
Funny I just tried to look on the Kurosan website, they have a picture of some stockings and a big 'away for the holidays, back in the new year!' message with no option to buy anything or look at the rest of the site! Got to love these little garage operations 
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Post by: Gomezaddams
Well I've tried getting a refund but got no where. They have told me I can sell it though so if anyone's interested in a real aliens ain't from Mars pledge feel free to get in touch
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Post by: Ruglud
Found this on the Prodos AvP Forum:
Big Jim V
Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:36 pm
Just a heads up from Prodos, there will probably not be an update this week due to the New Years holiday. Mind you it could happen, but I want everyone to be prepared if it does not.
Cheers,
Jim
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Yay! More news that there's no news!
Beats extended silence though, I guess.
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Post by: PomWallaby
I'm lurking the Prodos forum. Solely because I think it's the only place I'll hear anything. Miss the KS comments section. Couldn't bring myself to share on Dakka another "no update" update. Anyways, to satisfy my Predator cravings I went to Predastore. Fingers crossed it'll be a pleasant experience.
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Post by: PomWallaby
Prodos Games Ltd says:
Happy New Year!
It's 2015, it's January and we are raring to go with the new year. We've got big plans as a company, so you can expect to see all of our product lines grow and see a host of exciting events we will be attending and running!
However, you're all here for AvP, so we wanted to update you with where we are.
Our final stage for approval is pending with a master document of all the materials that will come in the main boxed set combined. The printed book did not meet the requirements, so we are currently reworking the fiction and background in order to meet the requirements that have been stated.
With that in mind, we are starting to order in the large packing boxes, rolls of packing tape and part-time staff to get your orders packed up and shipped out. It is very soon indeed and, though we cannot express an exact date, we hope that you realise just how soon this should be.
Once again, many thanks for your patience.
Prodos Games LTD
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Post by: JoeRugby
I wonder if river horse are going to have similar issues re aproval with the terminator game their doing?
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Post by: Pacific
Who knows! Terminator is owned by Fox as well right? I think certainly if I were Alessio Cavatore I would be on the phone to the guys at Prodos for some advice!
OK.. Re. the Prodos email if they're going to be getting in temp/agency staff soon, that's a good sign. You don't do that unless you are ready to roll, or are sure that you will be soon.
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
The fiction is the hold-up? Since when did Fox start caring about the quality of Aliens or Predator fiction?
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Post by: angelofvengeance
*Sigh* for feths sake...
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Post by: Ruglud
Hope though that this is good news - i.e. fluff being re-written to make a better product...
As to Terminator - I saw this on Beasts of War. This was my next wishlist game... Would go all in for a good Termintator( tm) miniatures game...
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Post by: warboss
I'm curious if the next update will specifically deny that the fiction is the holdup and that they're purposefully changing the background of their own accord. Anyone mentioning the previous post will be deemed not constructive and banned; if that doesn't work, they'll turn off their fax machine and close their twitter account.
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Post by: Pacific
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:The fiction is the hold-up? Since when did Fox start caring about the quality of Aliens or Predator fiction?
Haha yeah
Maybe it was deemed to be better than the script material for the AvP films and therefore inadmissible? If they have to make something that is equally bad we could be in for a wait, that would take some doing..
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Post by: Dark Severance
BobtheInquisitor wrote:The fiction is the hold-up? Since when did Fox start caring about the quality of Aliens or Predator fiction?
Ever since mega-movie universes have become a thing (ie: Marvel Universe). Typically movies have always been stand alone, maybe a trilogy but they have always been self-contained. That momentum sold products, toy lines and other items until that horse was dead. When they needed to update the story or universe, they would then do a reboot or remake. Although it was semi-started with Lord of the Rings which lead to Hobbit and a huge commercial success. At that time also movies like Iron Man, Captain America, Thor and Avengers which also cross-platform not only to movies but to TV shoes like SHIELD... Fox has hopefully figured out they are sitting on untapped and wasted resources, which they keep screwing up with each new movie release or remake (ie: X-Men) because they don't pay attention to fiction.
Fox has so much wasted potential with what they control with licenses it isn't funny. Sure its made money but it is now proven that when handled differently, it could make a lot more. Unfortunately they don't seem to work well with planning for the future, it seems that each project are treated as stand-alone instead of planning for possible future releases. While everyone else has been adapting they have been left behind. There are a few times they could of been the first to really pioneer something like that, even with Aliens and Predators... there was potential with Prometheus before they decided to make it "Not-Aliens". Maybe now they are trying to get that together... highly unlikely but one can hope.
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Post by: DaveC
bit OT but Paramount and Skydance Productions have the rights to the Terminator franchise now not Fox.
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Post by: fullmetaljacket
are they 28mm heroic like 40k??
fmj
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Post by: Visceral_Mass
 Dark Severance wrote: BobtheInquisitor wrote:The fiction is the hold-up? Since when did Fox start caring about the quality of Aliens or Predator fiction?
Ever since mega-movie universes have become a thing (ie: Marvel Universe). Typically movies have always been stand alone, maybe a trilogy but they have always been self-contained. That momentum sold products, toy lines and other items until that horse was dead. When they needed to update the story or universe, they would then do a reboot or remake. Although it was semi-started with Lord of the Rings which lead to Hobbit and a huge commercial success. At that time also movies like Iron Man, Captain America, Thor and Avengers which also cross-platform not only to movies but to TV shoes like SHIELD... Fox has hopefully figured out they are sitting on untapped and wasted resources, which they keep screwing up with each new movie release or remake (ie: X-Men) because they don't pay attention to fiction.
Fox has so much wasted potential with what they control with licenses it isn't funny. Sure its made money but it is now proven that when handled differently, it could make a lot more. Unfortunately they don't seem to work well with planning for the future, it seems that each project are treated as stand-alone instead of planning for possible future releases. While everyone else has been adapting they have been left behind. There are a few times they could of been the first to really pioneer something like that, even with Aliens and Predators... there was potential with Prometheus before they decided to make it "Not-Aliens". Maybe now they are trying to get that together... highly unlikely but one can hope.
I don't think the people at Fox understand how to "grow" a franchise in today's movie environment.
As for the fiction, if the new Dark Horse comic series or Titan Books novel series are any indication, I don't think Fox cares too much about the "quality" and "cohesion" of the stories being told.
The only way Alien and Predator can compete with the current franchises is to do a reboot or retcon. I think this is what is happening with Terminator, but what little we have seen doesn't leave me hopeful for the continuation of the series.
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
Pacific wrote: BobtheInquisitor wrote:The fiction is the hold-up? Since when did Fox start caring about the quality of Aliens or Predator fiction?
Haha yeah
Maybe it was deemed to be better than the script material for the AvP films and therefore inadmissible? If they have to make something that is equally bad we could be in for a wait, that would take some doing..
I could help. I have a colostomy bag full of ideas.
Like, what if they're in a sporting goods store fighting a brazillion aliens and the Predator runs out of ammo and blades and he's all riding a skateboard around smashing aliens with a baseball bat and a hockey stick, and there's a vuvuzela in there somwwhere, and then later he decides that the ultimate hunt is taking on UFC champions in hand-to-hand, but one of the champions is secretly an android, and a facehugger got him but the baby alien can't break out because he's an android, so it's growing and growing, and then at the end the Predator breaks the androind in half over his knee and the fully-grown andralien jumps out and he's all like, "Hssssssshhhhhhhh!" and the Predator goes "Reeeaarrrrrrr!" and it's all like " TO BE CONTINUED" bruuuump (inception horns)..? Automatically Appended Next Post: Did I mention that the vuvuzela makes an alien's head explode?
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Post by: warboss
BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I could help. I have a colostomy bag full of ideas.
Like, what if they're in a sporting goods store fighting a brazillion aliens and the Predator runs out of ammo and blades and he's all riding a skateboard around smashing aliens with a baseball bat and a hockey stick, and there's a vuvuzela in there somwwhere, and then later he decides that the ultimate hunt is taking on UFC champions in hand-to-hand, but one of the champions is secretly an android, and a facehugger got him but the baby alien can't break out because he's an android, so it's growing and growing, and then at the end the Predator breaks the androind in half over his knee and the fully-grown andralien jumps out and he's all like, "Hssssssshhhhhhhh!" and the Predator goes "Reeeaarrrrrrr!" and it's all like " TO BE CONTINUED" bruuuump (inception horns)..?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Did I mention that the vuvuzela makes an alien's head explode?
It's like you're channelling Matt Ward and CZ Dunn at the same time! Amazing... a hitherto impossible feat of fanfic. The story you've written sounds more epic than the one in the videogame Destiny already and you've only started!
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Post by: CURNOW
Yeah you need to chuck in some apc surfing predators and some marines who are am bestest marines and all cloned from hudson/ hicks/Cameron / vasqezze etc so are like completely acid proof and love slaughtering juicy colonists daughters as they are secretly chaos/ space yuppies.
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Post by: Pacific
fullmetaljacket wrote:are they 28mm heroic like 40k??
fmj
Believe they are 28mm 'to eye', which is what most 28mm is nowadays.
Here we go, a size comparison shot that was posted some time ago (funny we have just been talking about the Terminator as it's one of a Necron )
Guessing the aliens would make something of an ironic stand-in for Tyranids if that's what you are intending, not sure the proportions would fit with the Marines in for Imperial Guard though..
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Pacific wrote: BobtheInquisitor wrote:The fiction is the hold-up? Since when did Fox start caring about the quality of Aliens or Predator fiction?
Haha yeah
Maybe it was deemed to be better than the script material for the AvP films and therefore inadmissible? If they have to make something that is equally bad we could be in for a wait, that would take some doing..
I could help. I have a colostomy bag full of ideas.
Like, what if they're in a sporting goods store fighting a brazillion aliens and the Predator runs out of ammo and blades and he's all riding a skateboard around smashing aliens with a baseball bat and a hockey stick, and there's a vuvuzela in there somwwhere, and then later he decides that the ultimate hunt is taking on UFC champions in hand-to-hand, but one of the champions is secretly an android, and a facehugger got him but the baby alien can't break out because he's an android, so it's growing and growing, and then at the end the Predator breaks the androind in half over his knee and the fully-grown andralien jumps out and he's all like, "Hssssssshhhhhhhh!" and the Predator goes "Reeeaarrrrrrr!" and it's all like " TO BE CONTINUED" bruuuump (inception horns)..?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Did I mention that the vuvuzela makes an alien's head explode?
Haha, if I were you I would be waiting next to your phone right now for that call from the studio execs
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Post by: Forar
Pacific wrote:Haha, if I were you I would be waiting next to your phone right now for that call from the studio execs
"Look, you're going to get a Cease And Desist or an offer to flesh this out into a screenplay. Either way, expect mail."
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Post by: warboss
 Forar wrote: Pacific wrote:Haha, if I were you I would be waiting next to your phone right now for that call from the studio execs
"Look, you're going to get a Cease And Desist or an offer to flesh this out into a screenplay. Either way, expect mail."
"If you accept the latter, we will naturally expect you to have a revolving door of contradictory excuses on hand to explain any delays as well as cut off all electronic contact with the outside world except for an alphanumeric beeper the size of a cream cheese bar from which you will periodically post updates with no actual news."
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Post by: adlard.matthew
With regards the level of detail Fox is imposing the level imposed over the new comics was immense from the interviews with Dark Horse.
These included JC also having a say and input.
It appears that Fox is making massive attempts to control what is and is not allowed now.
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Post by: Joyboozer
Jesus Christ had input?
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Post by: adlard.matthew
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Post by: Joyboozer
Damn! Just when I though Jesus vs Predator was finally all set to become a reality!
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Post by: Alpharius
I'm sure James Cameron has acted as if he was God at some point but...
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Post by: Visceral_Mass
 adlard.matthew wrote:With regards the level of detail Fox is imposing the level imposed over the new comics was immense from the interviews with Dark Horse.
These included JC also having a say and input.
It appears that Fox is making massive attempts to control what is and is not allowed now.
If they are now making "massive" attempts at control, you can't really tell by the quality of the material that has been released. The best I can say about how they are handling the franchise is that at least the releases have been consistently mediocre.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
Fox has also just had Aliens : Colonial Marines from Sega pulled from Stream (not a big loss)
as well as Alien vs Predator from Rebellion
now it might just because fixed licences have expired but since both went at the same time, it looks more likely that at least AvP was a yearly rolling licences
(probably a % of sales as I doubt sales of a 2010 title would have been high enough for Rebellion to actually pay a big sum up front recently) so probably this year Fox just didn't offer an option
another sign they are tightening up on the franchise (and possibly that another movie may be closer than we think)
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Post by: Pacific
Haha!
Although looking at the Aliens Vs. Predator films, you would have probably have thought Satan had been involved instead, as well as his bowels.
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Post by: JoeRugby
Pacific wrote:fullmetaljacket wrote:are they 28mm heroic like 40k??
fmj
Believe they are 28mm 'to eye', which is what most 28mm is nowadays.
Here we go, a size comparison shot that was posted some time ago (funny we have just been talking about the Terminator as it's one of a Necron )
Guessing the aliens would make something of an ironic stand-in for Tyranids if that's what you are intending, not sure the proportions would fit with the Marines in for Imperial Guard though..
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Pacific wrote: BobtheInquisitor wrote:The fiction is the hold-up? Since when did Fox start caring about the quality of Aliens or Predator fiction?
I remember in the kickstarter comments (seems like forever ago) that they said the marines measured 32mm to top of their heads.
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Post by: Ruglud
Facebook - 5 Jan:
Jarek Ever
20 hrs · Edited
Looking for proofreaders for the final rules for the AvP : The Hunt Begins, Board Game, yes, this only means that the rules going to print SOON!!!! : Requirements: Good English and "gaming Imagination" IMPORTANT : you must be able to sign NDA and you will have to follow it, strictly. It will be closed FB group of max 10 peoples. In return we will: 1. Publish your name in the board game rulebook as a official Proofreader. 2. We will also provide some gifts once the game is out. If you are interested please drop a comment in this post, thanks!
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Post by: Nostromodamus
So after they get a team together, go through revisions, send it for approval, print the book and pack it, THEN we can get our stuff, right?
Is there anything else for the core game we're waiting for?
Then there's the wait for wave 2...
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Post by: CptJake
 Alex C wrote: Is there anything else for the core game we're waiting for?
We don't really know. I don't recall ever seeing final versions of the cards, templates or some of the other components. Who knows if the tiles were ever approved. No clue about the box (we've seen some of the box cover but that was really it, many boxes have art/pictures on the sides even of the 'bottom' half of the box) and other packaging/inserts that may come in the box. Heck, we don't even know if the core game figures went through final approval yet. We'll probably never get details/specifics on things like this though (and that level of detail though nice, can't really be expected). But Prodos has said they will be shipping Very Soon*! And they've ordered packing material and everything! *For some value of Very Soon, a value I doubt matches my definition
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Glad to hear they've ordered packing material.
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Post by: CURNOW
Shipping the box game first and really soon just as soon as we have written the rules and printed them plus all the other stuff we haven't told you about .... im calling July at the earliest for this and like my other main kickstarter this will prob end up in a box as a unusable pile of rubbish . Who in their right minds would of picked the raging heroes one to be delivered before this ?
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Post by: Tengri
They sure are taking their sweet time
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Post by: Ruglud
As for the proofreading, Jarek responded on Facebook (5 Jan): Q: What's the timeframe? Jarek Ever
2 week at max, the doc is 33k words!
Jarek Ever
lads please give me 24h before the proofers group goes up
Backer:
so is the rulebook not being professionally proof read? it seems very odd to be so much under the cosh with Fox to get things right, and then put proof reading in the hands of a bunch of people you've stumbled into on facebook.
Jarek Ever
what is the issue again, professional proofers will just check the grama, nothing else, the gamers will do more, this is how we have been working sucessivelly from day 1 with WZR
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Post by: Joyboozer
Yeah, better get someone to check the "grama" too, just in case.
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Post by: biggusdoggus
my grama doesn't need to be checked, she's fit and healthy thankyou very much.
In all seriousness though, the two week timeframe is ridiculous - it'll take them at least that to set the group up and get NDAs out to everyone and returned signed, especially since he then makes it clear that he doesn't actually need proofers, he needs people who will do more than that - ie more than correct grammar and spelling errors. He needs copy editors and playtesters. This process will likely take 2-3 months I should think, and the rules will STILL need to be properly proofread even then.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Then approved after changes...
...sigh.
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Post by: Visceral_Mass
The rules should have been one of the first things finished and they should have had a rough final draft finished before the kickstarter even launched.
If I was waiting for the game, I'd be concerned about the quality of the rules if they are only just now proofreading (with a random group of gamers). But, then again, I think plenty of backers are giving them a pass on the rules because they don't plan on using them, they just want the models.
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Post by: CptJake
Some if us very much pledged for the Board Game because we wanted a cool AvP board game.
Of course when folks like me expressed concern about the rules we did hear 'Cool Minis!!!!!' as the typical reply.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Remember when they said they'd have the rules and points values up before the funding period ended?
Seems they were being more than a tad optimistic there...
Then there's the "gameplay video" which was mostly just some guys fething around. Never did see "part 2" which was supposed to show the game being played...
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Post by: dekinrie
Prodos wouldnt be the first company to ask backers to proofread their material everything from modiphius's achtung cthulu kickstarter was opened to backers before going to printers incase of mistakes
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Post by: warboss
 dekinrie wrote:Prodos wouldnt be the first company to ask backers to proofread their material everything from modiphius's achtung cthulu kickstarter was opened to backers before going to printers incase of mistakes
No, they're not... and it's good that they're doing that (Palladium, I'm looking at you!). The issue I suspect is that this is coming out now months after the stuff was already supposed to be in backers' grubby mitts and after IIRC months of them saying that the book wasn't the holdup but rather the minis which seems to be a tune that changed recently. Automatically Appended Next Post: CURNOW wrote:some marines who are am bestest marines and all cloned from hudson/ hicks/Cameron / vasqezze etc so are like completely acid proof
Plot armor is the motion picture equivalent of a 2++ rerollable save.
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Post by: adlard.matthew
One is wondering if the changes to Promethius 2, and comics with their new story lines, and separate speculation on a future Alien 5, could be seeing Fox make changes to its Story arc, so anything project wise will have to change.
Hence the changes they asked to the fluff and such.
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Post by: Pacific
At least it is being proof read - some of the new Spartan stuff is horrendous, it's amazing how often this kind of stuff gets overlooked.
 CptJake wrote:Some if us very much pledged for the Board Game because we wanted a cool AvP board game.
Of course when folks like me expressed concern about the rules we did hear 'Cool Minis!!!!!' as the typical reply.
Yes but.... . the minis!
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Post by: Visceral_Mass
CptJake wrote:Some if us very much pledged for the Board Game because we wanted a cool AvP board game.
Of course when folks like me expressed concern about the rules we did hear 'Cool Minis!!!!!' as the typical reply.
This is exactly why I didn't pledge. The more I learn about the game the more it seems that they won't be releasing a good board game and the more it seems like they are releasing a hobby wargame that can be played on a board.
As I've said before, an accessible board game with these two licenses could have drawn in a lot more backers. As it is currently being released, I don't see it having a significant or lasting store presence beyond online retailers.
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Post by: CURNOW
And as they have already said that the game will be sent out first it seems that it will hold everything up .even for those pledges without the game in them .
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Post by: Nostromodamus
CURNOW wrote:And as they have already said that the game will be sent out first it seems that it will hold everything up .even for those pledges without the game in them .
That's because the packaging for all those models they've had laying around for months still needs to be approved, so they can't send them until that's done.
God knows how long it will be before we get absolutely everything we're owed.
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Post by: Gorlock
They had an Alien vs Predator CCG back around '99. You could play one of the 3 factions (Predators, xenomorphs or Space Marines obviously).
It wasnt to bad of a game, but ya know the shelf life of a new CCG. If it isnt spectacular, or you don't get the kiddies playing it, its not on the shelves long. 
With the birth of the Xeno in the movie 'Prometheus'...there could be ALL KIND of possibilities. 
This is one I'm gonna keep an eye on, for sure! 
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Post by: chaos0xomega
I keep seeing Wave 2 comments, as I understood it, Prodos was shipping everything in 1 wave, hence the delays?
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Post by: Nostromodamus
chaos0xomega wrote:I keep seeing Wave 2 comments, as I understood it, Prodos was shipping everything in 1 wave, hence the delays?
More recent comments by Prodos have indicated they are now likely to be sending the boxed game before, and separate to, any other content.
The delays have been due to Prodos only just figuring out the rulebook and Fox not being happy with the fiction and having to approve every last detail of the project.
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Post by: angelofvengeance
Alex C wrote:chaos0xomega wrote:I keep seeing Wave 2 comments, as I understood it, Prodos was shipping everything in 1 wave, hence the delays?
More recent comments by Prodos have indicated they are now likely to be sending the boxed game before, and separate to, any other content. The delays have been due to Prodos only just figuring out the rulebook and Fox not being happy with the fiction and having to approve every last detail of the project.
So is the boxed game going to have the minis that are meant to come with it in then or do they literally mean just the boxed game gubbins? lol
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Post by: Nostromodamus
I believe it will have the core game minis.
If not, the gakstorm may break the interwebs...
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Post by: warboss
Alex C wrote:I believe it will have the core game minis.
If not, the gakstorm may break the interwebs...
If the internet survived Ben Affleck being named the next Batman, I think it'll do just fine with potentially 2,000 angry AVP fans.
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Post by: Rick_1138
But I believe us KS backers get resin gme pieces not ABS plastic, Yes?
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Post by: biggusdoggus
 Rick_1138 wrote:But I believe us KS backers get resin gme pieces not ABS plastic, Yes?
Absolutely. The KS Exclusive boxsets contain models made using Prodos' procast method from resin rather than hard plastic.
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Post by: CptJake
biggusdoggus wrote: Rick_1138 wrote:But I believe us KS backers get resin gme pieces not ABS plastic, Yes?
Absolutely. The KS Exclusive boxsets contain models made using Prodos' procast method from resin rather than hard plastic.
To be fair, ALL of the initial run will very likely be the procast method resin, not just the KS ones, Prodos went back on 'exclusive' quite a while back.
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Post by: biggusdoggus
CptJake wrote:biggusdoggus wrote: Rick_1138 wrote:But I believe us KS backers get resin gme pieces not ABS plastic, Yes?
Absolutely. The KS Exclusive boxsets contain models made using Prodos' procast method from resin rather than hard plastic.
To be fair, ALL of the initial run will very likely be the procast method resin, not just the KS ones, Prodos went back on 'exclusive' quite a while back.
Indeed - the initial manufacturing run appears to have needed 5000 units and they sold about half that via kickstarter. Then they opened up sales on their website (with each buyer gaining access to the pledge manager and therefore KS 'exclusive' deals. Last I heard, somebody mentioned that there were about 900 units left when they closed the online store. How acurate that figure is I don't know, but for sure there's going to be a lot of resin sets floating about that have not yet been sold. Expect to see them at cons and expos for a while yet.
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Post by: CptJake
And so, two weeks into the New Year and no update.
Do we get one soon?
Will it have any substance?
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Post by: CURNOW
God damnedest cpt a saw a post and got all excited!! Lol
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Post by: CptJake
CURNOW wrote:God damnedest cpt a saw a post and got all excited!! Lol
 On a more serious note, I recall Prodos saying they hoped for an update before the holiday period, but then couldn't get it approved in time. Now, a couple weeks later I was hoping to see one. Of course Hope is not a method.
I've even looked at their official forums every few days. A lot of: Prodos is super awesome! Prodos is the BEST! If you complain about Prodos you're a poopy head! We should all be happy Prodos is so great! Prodos has a sweet ass! wait wut
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Post by: biggusdoggus
I'd argue we've not really had an update worthy of the name - ie one that contained anything a) factual and b) that we didn't already know and c) that moved things on, since the beta rules were released at the beginning of November. Essentially Prodos have gone into minimal communication mode since then,
I have no confidence in this project any more, absolutely none. Sure, people will say "It's going to happen, the models exist" and I say - so what? It's been 2 months since we've seen any progression, and those models have been gathering dust for 6 months or more. For all we know Fox have all but pulled the plug, and Prodos are still deep in discussion with them desperately trying to rescue their project.
It concerns me that the directors of Prodos set up a new gaming company (Cerebrum Games) in August. While there may be perfectly valid reasons for doing so, it may well be another legitimate venture, it's also often the first step in liquidating a business to start a new one under another name (a process known as creating a phoenix company in the UK). At the very least it means they are spreading their time thinly (Prodos recently took on a new venture to create models for another gaming company as well), and at the worst it could be indicative of the imminent failure of Prodos as a business. Before people cry "but they are doing OK with Warzone) - that will be a flash in the pan if they are indeed in project saving talks with Fox, and Fox ultimately do pull the plug (assuming they haven't already done so).
It's the combination of these issues that concerns me. The near radio silence, the lack of anything to say when they do say something, the silence from Fox, the IP dispute that remains unresolved (a dispute that allegedly hasn't happened despite Kickstarter insisting otherwise), the refusal to give refunds, the attempt to silence anything critical of them or the process, the new company .... it all adds up to a very bad small.
Prodos isn;t working very hard to put any of these concerns right at this time. Until they do, I will remain highly sceptical.
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Post by: PomWallaby
I've copied this directly from a Guardians of Eden Q&A with Mark Rapson from the Moonshriek blog on 2014-12-30. Some interesting points regarding AVP.
http://moonshriek.blogg.se/2014/december/guardians-of-eden-qa-with-mark-rapson.html
"Q. Will it be a KS and if so when can we expect it?
A.To answer this I should probably give you some background to the story of Guardians of Eden and Forge World Games and our link with Prodos Games Ltd (the company behind Warzone Resurrection and the soon to be released Alien vs. Predator board game): Approximately 12 years ago, I was staying in yet another hotel room, (as a result of my job of a travelling salesman), when I had a spark of an idea about this boy who did something extraordinary as a result of a near miss that should have killed him. This extraordinary experience brought international media attention, which in turn brought the boy, Joshua Jenkins, to the focus of two powerful and opposing groups (who too are extraordinary). Over the years, and as I had time to think about it, these factions and the world they lived in solidified, the back story and reasons for their extraordinary nature became clear, loose ends were tied up and I came to care for the characters. To the point, that approximately 2 years ago, I had written a large chunk of the story. Then this chap came to see me, a friend that I had met through my local gaming club. He asked me to help him realise his dream, a dream that I soon shared. He (Jarek), I and our 3rd co-owner of Prodos Games, worked our socks off to make that dream a reality. Warzone Resurrection was launched via Kick Starter in early 2013, since then it is going from strength to strength. Then Prodos launched Alien vs. Predator, The Hunt Begins, which is in the very final stages of production. But in all this time, Josh and the Guardians, have always niggled at my brain. Now Prodos Games has a team looking after Warzone Resurrection and another working on AvP, to the point we have 20 or so employees across Europe and the Americas working away. My co-directors are, themselves, fully employed and doing a great job at the helm, and now it’s time for my dream (with the full blessings of my fellow co-owners of Prodos Games).... In the last couple of months, I have collated a perfect team of rules writers, facilitators, artists, comic book artists, photographers and novelists etc. to make Guardians become a reality. Each of these people, are shareholders in Word Forge Games, but this project has little investment financially. Kickstarter, to me, is the perfect conduit for making a game like GoE a reality, so to answer the question (after a very long preamble – sorry! ), yes Word Forge Games will use Kickstarter to kick start GoE and it will be likely Q2 2015."
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Post by: Rick_1138
what are the interesting points about AvP in that, as it just reads like how they started and AvP happened to be going on too?
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Post by: PomWallaby
Earlier there was speculation about Prodos being in difficulty. This was a senior spokesperson from Prodos giving some information (~2weeks old) saying that AVP had its own team which were in the final stages and that that he was starting a new project. My use of the word "Interesting" is subjective. There was a lot of waffle but I didn't want to copy something out of context. I was interested to hear anything about AVP since I don't hear much through kickstarter updates but I hear a lot of speculation. I thought the interview was noteworthy.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Another KS to add to my 2015 list then.
No way in feth I'll be backing it though, now matter how well they dress it up.
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Post by: Ruglud
I've lost all interest in AvP now, thoroughly bored with the whole sorry saga. If we get it, we get it... 
I'm at the point of thinking that IF I get my pledge it will probably be best to find it's way onto eBay minus the Predator miniatures, especially if the upcoming Terminator: Genysis game ends up looking like a good bet - hell, at this rate that one will be in the shops before we see AvP 
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Post by: warboss
How many weeks has the "just a few days till we get permission to post a real update" been going on?
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Post by: CptJake
From the Prodos forums today/this evening:
Things are moving forward behind the scenes, but I have no officially approved update to give you. We are moving forward and hope to get the KS pledges shipping very soon.
Jim
Prodos Games
So, we should get our stuff Very Soon!
http://forum.prodosgames.com/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=1884&sid=3886144faed768f9057582c80ddf6638
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Great!
I'll probably be too busy playing Half-Life 3 to get around to building the models right away though.
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Post by: CptJake
This is me in anticipation:
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Post by: Nostromodamus
I can't unsee that the kid has an integral mantic base.
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Post by: Joyboozer
Alex C wrote:I can't unsee that the kid has an integral mantic base.
And Mantic stubby legs
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Post by: angelofvengeance
Whoopdy fething do..
God I wish Prodos weren't hamstrung by these silly fething "Fox Approved" updates. Really annoying.
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Post by: HoverBoy
Is that the same soon™ Blizzard uses?
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Post by: CURNOW
Its the same "soon" we had 3mths ago
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Post by: CptJake
And likely the same "soon" we'll get next month.
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Post by: Ruglud
and the month after that, and the month after...
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Post by: PomWallaby
Of all the delayed Kickstarters I've backed, this one is getting to me the most. I stayed pretty calm throughout Soda Pop and Relic Knights, Megacon Games and Myth etc. I'm actually still cool with Poots and Kingdom Death : Monster. I don't need fox approved updates, I'd just like to see some interaction with the community. Prodos were the OP of this thread, they've had the opportunity to put rumours straight for themselves.
I don't know what I expect to hear from Prodos. Possibly a good start if they came out and said they can no longer talk about work in progress due to the fallout from the Aliens : Colonial Marines lawsuit. I'd completely ok with that if that was the case. It's my understanding that the work in progress for A:CM didn't resemble the quality of the final product which led to disappointment and a heap of bad press. (I've since picked up A:CM new for £3 to see what the fuss was about for myself)
I'm losing interest in Prodos' rules systems and at this rate more likely to play homebrew Mantic's DeadZone (Maybe Project Pandora) or Grindhouse's Incursion with any miniatures I get. I'm looking out for this summer's Terminator Wargame. If it plays like Bolt Action you can count me in.
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Post by: biggusdoggus
PomWallaby wrote:Of all the delayed Kickstarters I've backed, this one is getting to me the most. I stayed pretty calm throughout Soda Pop and Relic Knights, Megacon Games and Myth etc. I'm actually still cool with Poots and Kingdom Death : Monster. I don't need fox approved updates, I'd just like to see some interaction with the community. Prodos were the OP of this thread, they've had the opportunity to put rumours straight for themselves.
what would they say that might be believable when they've plied us with so many false promises and miss-information so far?
remember that time they said they'd show us the rulebook? that took them 6 months rather than a week
remember when they repeatedly insisted they were on time for delivery as scheduled? yeah right
remember when they then insisted they'd make Christmas, and even ejected backers from the kickstarter for suggesting otherwise?
remember when they claimed the KS page was brought down by KS due to them miss-understanding an instruction to clear up the maintenance screen (and KS have repeatedly stated that there is definitely an IP dispute lodged by 21st C Fox)
remember how they said the page would be back up within 24 hours, and then apparently decided with Fox that they didn't want to bring it back up at all?
remember when they insisted they'd ship in a single wave?
and then changed that to two waves with the add-ons being first so we had something to paint? (and play with given that we now have the beta rules)
and then changed it again to boxset first with add-on packaging not even going to approval until after the boxsets are shipped - that could of course take months based on our experience so far.
remember when they said the game would come soon (very soon), multiple months in a row?
remember when they said they'd ordered packing materials, so delivery would be very soon, and yet put the rules out for 'proof' reading by a randomly picked team of backers with no proof of experience, then made it fairly clear the rules actually need copy editing and quite likely game testing? and surely will then have to be looked at by Fox?
I wouldn't trust these guys to tell me the right time of day at the moment.
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Post by: Pacific
Aside from writing 'remember when' at the start of each sentence making you sound like a nut-job, I complete agree with the sentiment.
I can't remember a KS where comms have been this bad, it's absolutely atrocious, and not helped at all by the amount of smoke and mirrors seemingly being brought into play.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
They also said they would have points values up by the end of the funding period so we could plan our pledge.
And I never did see part 2 of their "gameplay video". Y'know, the one that was supposed to actually have gameplay...
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Post by: warboss
It's ironic but I used to use this KS as an example of exactly HOW to run a post KS campaign. I've pretty much soured on the whole idea of TTG KS at this point. I've luckily never been completely burned so far but almost every one that I seriously considered backing has had significant issues and I haven't regretting chickening out on any of the ones I did (this one included).
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Post by: CptJake
biggusdoggus wrote:PomWallaby wrote:Of all the delayed Kickstarters I've backed, this one is getting to me the most. I stayed pretty calm throughout Soda Pop and Relic Knights, Megacon Games and Myth etc. I'm actually still cool with Poots and Kingdom Death : Monster. I don't need fox approved updates, I'd just like to see some interaction with the community. Prodos were the OP of this thread, they've had the opportunity to put rumours straight for themselves.
what would they say that might be believable when they've plied us with so many false promises and miss-information so far?
remember that time they said they'd show us the rulebook? that took them 6 months rather than a week
remember when they repeatedly insisted they were on time for delivery as scheduled? yeah right
remember when they then insisted they'd make Christmas, and even ejected backers from the kickstarter for suggesting otherwise?
remember when they claimed the KS page was brought down by KS due to them miss-understanding an instruction to clear up the maintenance screen (and KS have repeatedly stated that there is definitely an IP dispute lodged by 21st C Fox)
remember how they said the page would be back up within 24 hours, and then apparently decided with Fox that they didn't want to bring it back up at all?
remember when they insisted they'd ship in a single wave?
and then changed that to two waves with the add-ons being first so we had something to paint? (and play with given that we now have the beta rules)
and then changed it again to boxset first with add-on packaging not even going to approval until after the boxsets are shipped - that could of course take months based on our experience so far.
remember when they said the game would come soon (very soon), multiple months in a row?
remember when they said they'd ordered packing materials, so delivery would be very soon, and yet put the rules out for 'proof' reading by a randomly picked team of backers with no proof of experience, then made it fairly clear the rules actually need copy editing and quite likely game testing? and surely will then have to be looked at by Fox?
I wouldn't trust these guys to tell me the right time of day at the moment.
They also said the KS main box resins and KS exclusives would be exclusive to the KS. They went back on that too.
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Post by: Stormonu
 Pacific wrote:Aside from writing 'remember when' at the start of each sentence making you sound like a nut-job, I complete agree with the sentiment.
I can't remember a KS where comms have been this bad, it's absolutely atrocious, and not helped at all by the amount of smoke and mirrors seemingly being brought into play.
Come on over by the Robotech KS. We're having soooo much fun communicating with PB.
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
"Feth off" counts as communication.
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Post by: biggusdoggus
CptJake wrote:
They also said the KS main box resins and KS exclusives would be exclusive to the KS. They went back on that too.
Oh I know my list was not in any way comprehensive.
BobtheInquisitor wrote:"Feth off" counts as communication.
Sadly, I think they really do believe that. It even counts if, rather than given as an actual update, it's said on a random forum that only a very small subset of backers are watching.
to quote a backer in a facebook thread ....
This would be funny if it wasn't so tragically unfunny.
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Post by: richred_uk
Just over 3 months until Salute.
Do we think that Prodos will (A) have it out by then, and (B) if not, do we think they would dare show up to face their investors/ backers/ customers/ howling mob?
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Post by: Visceral_Mass
How long do you think Fox's and Prodos's relationship will last after the initial release?
You have to wonder if this kickstarter experience has soured Fox on the whole idea of it and I'm sure Prodos has their share of ill feelings about it as well.
As I've said before. I don't think they'd be this far behind (and on communication lockdown) if they kickstarted an actual finished game instead of the concept of a game. I think they got too excited about having the license and didn't think the business aspect of it all the way through.
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Post by: Pacific
richred_uk wrote:Just over 3 months until Salute.
Do we think that Prodos will (A) have it out by then, and (B) if not, do we think they would dare show up to face their investors/ backers/ customers/ howling mob?
Funy to think that a lot of the minis were actually on display on the Prodos stand at the event last year!
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
Pacific wrote:richred_uk wrote:Just over 3 months until Salute.
Do we think that Prodos will (A) have it out by then, and (B) if not, do we think they would dare show up to face their investors/ backers/ customers/ howling mob?
Funy to think that a lot of the minis were actually on display on the Prodos stand at the event last year!
and the tragedy is it sound like that (and the various demos) were where a lot of the problems come from,
'naughty' Prodos showing people the toys before Mr Fox got to approve stuff
and that's why we can't have nice things
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
 Stormonu wrote: Pacific wrote:Aside from writing 'remember when' at the start of each sentence making you sound like a nut-job, I complete agree with the sentiment.
I can't remember a KS where comms have been this bad, it's absolutely atrocious, and not helped at all by the amount of smoke and mirrors seemingly being brought into play.
Come on over by the Robotech KS. We're having soooo much fun communicating with PB.
At least Palladium shipped Wave 1... People and retailers have the product to prove it. And Palladium does post updates.
While PB is far from the most competent company, it's not like they just took the money, shut down the KS and disappeared off the face of the earth...
A screw-up who does a half-assed job is still better than a lying thief.
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Post by: shingouki
This was my first venture into kickstarter/crowdfunding and it will probably be my last.My hopes have been wrecked having seen exactly the mini's i wanted and various stages of production updates etc and now Boom nothing.Some half arsed communication is not good enough when my money has been taken and im left waiting in the rain.I really thought this would be great what with the game demo days and what not.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
 shingouki wrote:This was my first venture into kickstarter/crowdfunding and it will probably be my last.
Seems foolish to judge and then condemn all future KS based upon one company's troubles.
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Post by: RiTides
The delay here hurts, because seemingly, they were ready... the minis look great, but there's hardly any indication of when they can/will produce and deliver them. I've got enough campaigns that I'm significantly waiting on, so I'm glad I sold my pledge for this one (got a bit caught up in the fever of it, to be honest, and overpledged but another person had just missed out and really wanted it, so I think it worked out for us both).
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Post by: angelofvengeance
In fairness to Prodos, their Warzone stuff did quite well when they put that on Kickstarter. The problem here is, it's a little company taking up a big franchise and Fox has understandably gotten the willies about it as it's their reputation on the line as much as Prodos'. While the police state Fox has brought in does suck massively, I'm still fairly confident Prodos can deliver here. Unless you know, everything gets buggered up and this game disappears entirely.
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Post by: CptJake
 angelofvengeance wrote: While the police state Fox has brought in does suck massively, I'm still fairly confident Prodos can deliver here. Unless you know, everything gets buggered up and this game disappears entirely.
I think they will eventually deliver, but it won't/can't be what the KS was really supposed to be for, a good AvP board game. The 100+ page rule book, multi-part figures for the retail version (they had said 1-2 piece figures for the retail version and instead are going with 10-15 pieces). This means the board game market (much bigger than the miniatures market, and I bet Fox was/is well aware of that) is going to not be enamored with the game, which means after KS sales are not going to meet whatever projections they ran. As a miniatures game/war game (which is clearly where they are headed) they'll potentially sell a bunch of figures, but the Fox required licensed packaging is going to make them expensive enough, that coupled with the approval timelines which would be required for expansions, the game is likely to not be much more than a small niche item in niche market. I really think this is a missed opportunity.
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Post by: Ruglud
But who's to say that part of the delay and communication freeze isn't due to Prodos having to redesign the retail version and go with 1-2 piece figures? Maybe FOX have put their foot down and said 'this product is not good enough for the boardgames market - sort it out Prodos or else...'
It's all conjecture at this stage and without any official comms from Prodos (or Fox) we're just clutching at straws and left waiting for the fabled 'soon' to actually happen ...
...and waiting, and waiting, etc., etc....
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Post by: CptJake
We'll see. I very highly doubt that is the case, but we'll see.
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Post by: Ruglud
You forgot to say 'soon'
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Post by: CptJake
VERY Soon!!!
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Post by: CURNOW
Think i may just go it to hypersleep .
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Post by: Nostromodamus
57 years later, maybe we'll see our stuff?
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Post by: warboss
Did Weyland Yutani deliver on their promises after all those years of hypersleep or just try to cover up what happened? If we're using the movies and Fox's/Prodos' recent actions as the basis, it's a horrifying thought!
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Post by: Nostromodamus
"Prodos; Building better games"
Seems legit...
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Post by: chaos0xomega
I have pledged many kickstarters, including Robotech and Cthulhu Wars and Raging Heroes, all of which are well known for their production issues and associated controversies, etc. I was never once annoyed at any of these the way I'm annoyed at this Kickstarter right now.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Hell, I backed Drake and this is more annoying...
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Post by: shingouki
 H.B.M.C. wrote: shingouki wrote:This was my first venture into kickstarter/crowdfunding and it will probably be my last.
Seems foolish to judge and then condemn all future KS based upon one company's troubles.
Not really condemning all future kickstarters,just stating that i probably wont do it again.Hope that clears it up for you.
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Post by: richred_uk
Alien vs Predator The Miniatures Game
49 mins ·
Hello Everyone,
We are very busy behind the scenes getting AvP ready to ship, so as you can imagine Prodos Games have been very focused on that task. We know that communication has been lacking from us and for this we apologize.
We want to address a few points today for clarity sake.
Prodos Games still have the Aliens vs Predator license. There is no licensing dispute, Kickstarter will not let us choose to keep the page down unless it says there is. So this is why the page still states that there is a dispute.
We cannot set a specific release date, this has been requested by Fox until the product is fully approved and ready to be finally manufactured. We are not allowed to ship any components until the entire project has been approved. This is the nature of a licensed product we are working very hard to get everything finished.
We cannot offer refunds, as the project is a Kickstarter project and the nature of Kickstarter is that it funds the investment required to create the product. Accidents happen and they are currently being resolved. This is how Kickstarters work sometimes a project gets behind, we are behind, but will be fulfilling pledges as soon as we can.
Please be civil in your comments and questions, any aggressive comments will not be tolerated. We understand people are upset, but remain calm we are in the final stretch!
Prodos Games will endeavor to answer all questions whenever possible in 3-5 days from this point forward. I have been allocated to spend a large amount of my time to monitor and answer your questions on this page. We recognize that communication is very important. I can assure you that this will happen going forward and will answer what I can to the best of my ability; with that said sometimes we cannot share everything because something’s are just out of our control.
Thanks
The Prodos Games Team
Noise : Signal. Not impressive.
Edit: that's from the avp Facebook profile page that was reposted on the avp game page by Jim Vladek. Not impressed that it's unsigned or that the 3 prominent prodos staffers have disappeared from the fb group page. Especially since jarek posted his ranty email to ks but never followed it up with their reply, or any changes to the ks page status.
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Post by: DaveC
Why are kickstarter permitting them to keep the page down when by their own admission there is no IP dispute.
Kickstarter should not facilitate a project in preventing comments good or bad that was the whole point of project pages remaining for ever I'm sure there's a good few projects would be happy to see their project disappear from view but KS don't allow this. Are Prodos a special case?
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Post by: richred_uk
Prodos say there is no dispute. Ks say fox raised one. Prodos got shouty. Nothing changed. Prodos say there is no dispute.
Draw your own conclusions.
It is possible to come up with a narrative that meets the above facts and doesn't threaten the game's eventual production, but I've given up expecting anything from this project/ company. What will come will come.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
We want to address a few points today for clarity sake.
- There is no licensing dispute, so this is why the page still states that there is a dispute.
- We cannot set a specific release date,
- We are not allowed to ship any components
- We cannot offer refunds,
Thanks
The Prodos Games Team
Reading this gives me a lot of confidence that Prodos isn't a bunch of lying, thieving weasels. I wonder if Prodos would accept more late backers and reopen pledges.
At least they'll be shipping things VERY soon, right?
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Post by: angelofvengeance
Lol are we there yet?
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Post by: Aeneades
I like how that extremely non-informative update took over 5 weeks to be approved for release but moving forward they claim they will answer all questions within 3 to 4 days.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
I like that the "update" is not anything different from what they said earlier. There is literally nothing new that was shared, just a repeat of previous words.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
To be fair, Fox has a monopoly on Prodos' mouth parts, and their vocabulary has been pretty much limited to variations of "soon".
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Post by: Dark Severance
Alex C wrote:To be fair, Fox has a monopoly on Prodos' mouth parts, and their vocabulary has been pretty much limited to variations of "soon".
Blizzard should sue Fox, everyone knows Blizzard Entertainment has the trademark on Soon( tm)!
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Post by: Nostromodamus
 Dark Severance wrote: Alex C wrote:To be fair, Fox has a monopoly on Prodos' mouth parts, and their vocabulary has been pretty much limited to variations of "soon".
Blizzard should sue Fox, everyone knows Blizzard Entertainment has the trademark on Soon( tm)!
I think Blizzard is busy fighting Valve for the "soon" trademark.
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Post by: CptJake
We will be there Very Soon!
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Post by: Alpharius
Alex C wrote: Dark Severance wrote: Alex C wrote:To be fair, Fox has a monopoly on Prodos' mouth parts, and their vocabulary has been pretty much limited to variations of "soon".
Blizzard should sue Fox, everyone knows Blizzard Entertainment has the trademark on Soon( tm)!
I think Blizzard is busy fighting Valve for the "soon" trademark.
Did id relinquish it then?
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Post by: Ruglud
I'd imagine that Big Jim has been tasked with 'communications', as the rest of Prodos aren't very good at it. He's definitely more customer relations focused.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
 Ruglud wrote:I'd imagine that Big Jim has been tasked with 'communications', as the rest of Prodos aren't very good at it. He's definitely more customer relations focused.
Yes, his manner of telling people that "there's no news but everything will be out soon" is much less abrasive than Jarek's.
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Post by: Visceral_Mass
richred_uk wrote:It is possible to come up with a narrative that meets the above facts and doesn't threaten the game's eventual production, but I've given up expecting anything from this project/ company. What will come will come.
Here's a possible narrative. Once upon a time, Prodos got the license from Fox. Fox thought Prodos were making one type of game, but discovered they were making another type. Fox raised a dispute with kickstarter while they talked to Prodos. Prodos begged Fox to let them release the game. Fox agreed, but told them the license will expire after everyone is sent their stuff. And they all lived happily ever after.
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Post by: Todosi
I think it is more likely that FOX didn't like the negative comments on the Kickstarter page and someone (Fox? Prodos?) decided to create an IP dispute because the Kickstarter rules say that's the only way to take down a project. Kickstarter has these rules so that backers are kept up to date and always have the record of what was promised during the campaign. Without the page up, the creator can claim whatever they want.
I have been patient up til now, but this ticks me off. Prodos has admitted that they lied to us and Kickstarter about why the page was taken down. I understand you don't like the negative comments, but that is the cost of doing business through a Kickstarter. If you want complete control over communication...fund the project yourself.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Indeed. I'd be surprised if Prodos gained any long term customers after this project.
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Post by: CptJake
Alex C wrote:Indeed. I'd be surprised if Prodos gained any long term customers after this project.
Read the comments on their forum, they have plenty of fanboy-ish folks who think Prodos has done and can do no wrong who I suspect will support them long term.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
CptJake wrote: Alex C wrote:Indeed. I'd be surprised if Prodos gained any long term customers after this project.
Read the comments on their forum, they have plenty of fanboy-ish folks who think Prodos has done and can do no wrong who I suspect will support them long term.
Oh I know, I guess I should have phrased it "net gain", because for every forum fanboy there's probably 10 others who won't touch anything made by Prodos with a 10' retractable spear.
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Post by: Ruglud
Maybe they went to a 'Business ethics' seminar hosted by Tom Kirby?
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Post by: Ruglud
AvP was mentioned on the Beasts of War: Weekender show. They mention a date of April apparently for delivery of the Kickstarter Pledges. I haven't watched it right through, but it's kicked up a mini storm on the AvP facebook group page. Jim Vidlak replied: Jim Vidlak Jr
Good morning all, first off I have not watched the video yet so do not know what was said, but I would like to point out that Warren is not an employee of Prodos Games. I imagine he is speculating, because a release date is not set.
You guys will know when the release date is set before someplace like BOW. So relax and enjoy your weekend.
Followed by Jarek: Jarek Ever
Strange we haven't talk with them about the release date, in fact we haven't talk about AvP with them at all. Release date will be set once FOX come back to us with changes they want to make to the game.
So, is Jarek implying that MORE changes are going to be needed or has he fethed up his communications AGAIN... SOON, everyone, VERY SOON...
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Post by: Nostromodamus
I wouldn't attribute any accuracy to BoW information.
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Post by: Ruglud
Agreed, but I'm more interest in Jarek's comment - is he hinting at more delays - and blaming Fox. Jarek, you'd be better staying quiet and letting Jim do the comms...
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Post by: PomWallaby
Whilst it's probably a slip of the tongue I'd have a good chuckle if BOW were to know before Prodos.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
PomWallaby wrote:Whilst it's probably a slip of the tongue I'd have a good chuckle if BOW were to know before Prodos.
It takes a lot of ineptitude to know less than BoW, but I think Prodos has a good shot at it.
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Post by: RiTides
Man... they really are struggling to finish this off... I wonder what issues Fox had, as the game components looked beautiful. Perhaps the gameplay wasn't up to scratch?
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Post by: CptJake
 RiTides wrote:Man... they really are struggling to finish this off... I wonder what issues Fox had, as the game components looked beautiful. Perhaps the gameplay wasn't up to scratch?
The minis looked good. We never saw other components finished. Even the tiles needed reworking last time they showed them. There are cards,tokens and other stuff too.
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Post by: Panic
Yeah,
So my AVP pledge is delayed because they have the miniatures but no Game components.
And my incursion pledge is delayed because they have the game components but no miniatures...
I'm disappointed by the delays by both companies, I have over £500 invested in these...
I do think they will finish, For me it's like a race to see which one completes first!
Panic
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Post by: PomWallaby
Bit off topic, but I do sympathise with Grindhouse and Incursion. I feel from their updates that they are fighting our corner and pushing the project along as fast as they can. I have an original copy of Incursion, so technically can play it to some extent whenever. I have some STOR stuff I could proxy if I wanted.
I'm hopeful that Prodos can have a more public presence. As it happens I think I'll be seeing them in person next weekend. I'll have some questions up my sleeve.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
I think the problem is everything has to fit with the 'canon' Fox has in mind for the franchise,
including stuff that they've not shown to Prodos
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Post by: Visceral_Mass
 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:I think the problem is everything has to fit with the 'canon' Fox has in mind for the franchise,
including stuff that they've not shown to Prodos
Didn't some of the game components resemble actual characters from the movies? Like the android token looking like Bishop and one of the marines looking like Apone. It could be possible that Prodos is having issues with things like that considering they may have been made without permission to use the actor's likenesses.
Plus, they were pretty adamant about getting the Capcom AVP characters into the game. I wonder how Fox feels about their inclusion.
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Post by: Sidstyler
But why would BoW lie about that, though? I've watched the video and it would hardly have any impact on the discussion at all if they had presented it as speculation rather than "We talked to Prodos and things are on track for an April release date." They mention that people were coming to them and begging them to contact Prodos to get more info but I doubt it would have hurt BoW if they had to say "Sorry, guys...", before continuing on with their discussion about the pros/cons of licensed games.
Also, I find it confusing that this Jarek claims they've "never talked to BoW about AvP at all", when the first thing they do at the start of this video is head to the Prodos display at Salute 2014, where they talk (briefly) to a man who I presume is Jarek about AvP. Not about release dates, granted, but it still seems weird to claim they haven't talked at all.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
I'm sure talking to anybody about release dates is one of the things Fox has reminded Prodos they are not allowed to do (along with showing minis/rules/boxes etc)
so they'd certainly have to deny leaking info to BoW even if they had mentioned something in passing
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Post by: biggusdoggus
it does seem unlikely that BoW are lying and simply made up their information and pretended they had spoken to Prodos. Why would they do that? They regularly tell viewers that they are speculating about this or that, why single this project out to do the exact opposite?
I don't buy it for one second. Prodos are essentially calling BoW liars, and they've called Kickstarter liars as well for telling backers there is/has been an IP dispute when there isn't. Yet the only one of these three organisations who we have evidence of lying(or at least being frugal with the truth) is Prodos themselves.
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Post by: Dark Severance
Strange we haven't talk with them about the release date, in fact we haven't talk about AvP with them at all. Release date will be set once FOX come back to us with changes they want to make to the game.
There is probably a bit of a word game going on here. To be fair BoW did not say it was a release date nor did they say it was releasing then. They said that they are aiming to have it out, that doesn't mean an actual release time by 'legalese' standard. That means finalized approved process and starting fulfillment of KS, not actually delivered given the time frame. A release date would be for when it goes retail as release dates are not " KS fulfillment" but retail. It makes sense to make that they would shoot for Salute though because given the background, at this point, they can't actually show it until its fully approved and finalized. It is in their interest to be demoing, showing and even taking pre-orders at that point. It is also prefaced by him stating "the impression I'm getting".
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Post by: Pacific
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:I'm sure talking to anybody about release dates is one of the things Fox has reminded Prodos they are not allowed to do (along with showing minis/rules/boxes etc)
so they'd certainly have to deny leaking info to BoW even if they had mentioned something in passing
That makes sense to me.
I've met a couple of the BoW guys, and they seem pretty sound, just very enthusiastic hobbyists, and certainly not the type to drop scurrilous made-up items into their videos and present them as fact.
Although this is not helped that as usual Jarek presents his words, no doubt because English is not his first language, with the eloquence and subtlety of a pile of bricks to the face.
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Post by: angelofvengeance
No update yet then :(
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Post by: Ruglud
Facebook:
O.k I have a question, if I have backed the KS campaign and also added pledges through the webstore, will they be sent out with the KS stuff, separately, or with the webstore stuff? And what is the plan with the retail version? Will it have a release date as soon as the pledges are fulfilled? Will it have a later release date once the plastics have been produced? Is it undecided? Can you even say at the moment?
Jarek Ever: Board game 1st to KS, then retail, the add ons to KS and Retail. When I say KS I mean all pledges from shop + KS website.
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Post by: CURNOW
Great so as my pledge doesn't include the game i will be waiting even longer .even though the minis are done and gathering dust .
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Post by: Ruglud
CURNOW wrote:Great so as my pledge doesn't include the game i will be waiting even longer .even though the minis are done and gathering dust .
A backer asked about this n Facebook - answer from Jarek:
Jarek Ever:
We will know more once we have board game out (how long it will take for Fox to check it all). We are waiting on last feedback regarding revised final materials once we have this we can move to add-ons. I can only assume it will be 2-3 months at most, as there is no written material to be reviewed
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Post by: biggusdoggus
2-3 months for the add-ons? I'll believe that when I see it. They've continually underestimated the length of time it will take to do anything. Not by days, but by months. For all we know a number of add-ons aren't even complete yet. We never did see the re-working of the 3d terrain, the clear preds or the young bloods. I doubt we'll see anything of wave 2 before the summer at least.
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Post by: warboss
The catchphrase adopted for another troubled kickstarter is "show, don't tell".
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Post by: CptJake
biggusdoggus wrote:2-3 months for the add-ons? I'll believe that when I see it. They've continually underestimated the length of time it will take to do anything. Not by days, but by months. For all we know a number of add-ons aren't even complete yet. We never did see the re-working of the 3d terrain, the clear preds or the young bloods. I doubt we'll see anything of wave 2 before the summer at least.
Do you think we'll see Wave 1 before the summer?
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Post by: Nostromodamus
I can't wait to have my stuff sitting in my house, then I can thankfully never have to deal with this company ever again.
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Post by: CptJake
I would expect there to be some (although admittedly minimal) 'written material' for the add ons. The cards you'll need to use them in the game, the copy for the packaging, and rule expansions required and so on.
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Post by: chaos0xomega
biggusdoggus wrote:2-3 months for the add-ons? I'll believe that when I see it. They've continually underestimated the length of time it will take to do anything. Not by days, but by months. For all we know a number of add-ons aren't even complete yet. We never did see the re-working of the 3d terrain, the clear preds or the young bloods. I doubt we'll see anything of wave 2 before the summer at least.
Errr. pretty much all the sculpts are done, the only thing that might not be is the 3d terrain, though I think it is done. The clear minis are identical sculpts to the others, just produced in a different material.
The issue seems to be more that Prodos jumped the gun and assumed it had a bit more leeway with the printed materials than they actually did, rather than an issue of them not producing the models.
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Post by: Alpharius
Has Prodos completed delivery for the Warzone Kickstarter?
And if so, how late did it end up being?
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Post by: CptJake
chaos0xomega wrote:biggusdoggus wrote:2-3 months for the add-ons? I'll believe that when I see it. They've continually underestimated the length of time it will take to do anything. Not by days, but by months. For all we know a number of add-ons aren't even complete yet. We never did see the re-working of the 3d terrain, the clear preds or the young bloods. I doubt we'll see anything of wave 2 before the summer at least.
Errr. pretty much all the sculpts are done, the only thing that might not be is the 3d terrain, though I think it is done. The clear minis are identical sculpts to the others, just produced in a different material.
The issue seems to be more that Prodos jumped the gun and assumed it had a bit more leeway with the printed materials than they actually did, rather than an issue of them not producing the models.
I thought we later learned not all the sculpts were approved? And biggusdoggus is correct, the Young Bloods needed to be reworked along with the terrain.
Someone asked Prodos to go through each item and note Approved or Waiting Approval on their forum. I don't think it was answered yet (and doubt it will be) but the bottom line is, we really have no idea what is or is not actually approved at this point.
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Post by: biggusdoggus
CptJake wrote:
Do you think we'll see Wave 1 before the summer?
If, and it's a big if, we're only waiting on fluff in the rulebook, then yes probably, but I'm not convinced. Why would they be needing to have people "proofread" (more accurately copy edit, which will create need for further play testing) the rules if those were ready to go, so it's not just the fluff that needed work. Then there's the tiles, counters and tokens - we saw them way back and they were shocking poor (unsealed edges, a finish that looked like it would fall apart as soon as you looked at it, and interconnects that mean you can only use one side of our two sided tiles at once - you can't mix and match between the two sides) - Prodos told us they were pre-production test pieces, but they didn't say that until the community had cried " wtf", so the cynic in me says they thought that was done and have had to revisit it.
So it's possible the box is still far from complete.
Then there's the retail box set. If I were Fox I'd have rejected those multi part models - there's no way they can sell a game with 28mm models made from 15-20 parts in Toys-R-Us, or frankly even your LGS. It just won't sell to all but the most hardened gamers, and they've backed the game already for resin models. So those, imho, would need to be redesigned completely to mke the models 2-3 parts at best, and preferably single part. That then gives them huge design issues and means they essentially have to start from scratch in those areas. So retail may be months and months behind, and it's more than possible that Fox won't sign off on the KS version until they see the finished retail one - it's the retail that's going to make them their money after all.
Incidentally, my guess is it's the showing of the retail models - the multi part sprues, that caused Fox to get all antsy. Nothing else we've seen has changed much over the course of production from 3d render to final product, but if Fox don't think they can sell those retail models, that will be the one thing that changes hugely. If their gripe is about showing the public one thing and then producing another (thinking that colonial marines console game here), then there's the issue.
So yeah - before the summer - I hope, but it does depend on any number of things.
Alex C wrote:I can't wait to have my stuff sitting in my house, then I can thankfully never have to deal with this company ever again.
I won't say never. If they produce a sensibly priced APC down the line I'll be all over it like flies on a cow pat, but I'll never ever give these guys my hard earned cash up front again. In future it will be over the counter payment for items in hand - retail.
CptJake wrote:I would expect there to be some (although admittedly minimal) 'written material' for the add ons. The cards you'll need to use them in the game, the copy for the packaging, and rule expansions required and so on.
I hadn't though of the cards - you're right - there's no need to put those stat cards in the box set, so they absolutely have to be packaged with each individual figure. Of course as the rules are fine tuned (see above), those stat cards may well need to be edited as well, so it's an ongoing process, and each change requires yet another approval process.
chaos0xomega wrote:Errr. pretty much all the sculpts are done, the only thing that might not be is the 3d terrain, though I think it is done. The clear minis are identical sculpts to the others, just produced in a different material.
The issue seems to be more that Prodos jumped the gun and assumed it had a bit more leeway with the printed materials than they actually did, rather than an issue of them not producing the models.
You may be right - it may just be printed materials though as CptJake points out, that's not necessarily as simple as you'd think. However, we know the 3d terrain was redone again and we never saw the final design. We know the young bloods had their sculpts reworked as there were moulding issues, and while you're right the clear preds are just clear resin copies of the normal preds (which we know have been done - young bloods aside), we also know (because I personally heard it straight from the horse's mouth) that they were having significant issues with producing the clear predators. It turns out the clear resin has different properties to the polyurethane blue/grey stuff they use for normal models - the clear sets up much harder and doesn't cope with undercut moulds anywhere near as well - when I spoke with them at the UK Expo last year I was told they were destroying moulds so quickly trying to make the clears that it was costing them more to produce each figure than they were selling them for. They did say they were trying to source a resin with less destructive properties, but we've never had visual confirmation that they succeeded and those are done.
The trouble is (for me at least) that the only thing we have to go on for any of this is Prodos' word, and unfortunately they've broken that far far too often during this campaign to allow me to believe anything they say at all right now. I don't think they've necessarily set out to fool us, to defraud or scam us, and I do believe that they themselves truly believe in their product and want to bring it to market, so in that respect they have done nothing wrong, but repeated miss-information whether by design or because of simple miss-understanding or because they've backed themselves into a legal corner with Fox and just don't have the experience, knowledge or expertise in knowing how to handle their relationship with both Fox and the backers means it's no longer possible to trust them when they use words like "soon". I won't be counting my chickens until I have a pile of resin on my paint table.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
One last point - they've been repeatedly asked to provide a list of all items in the game and their status - developed, approved, produced. It would not be difficult to do this without showing us a thing, without telling us anything about a release date. While I don't claim to understand the inner working of Fox, I can see no good reason why they would not provide that information to us other than because there are items that we currently think are finished that Fox has decided must be redone.
For all we know, there's been an issue with one or more of the already produced and supposedly approved sculpts - something too close to an actor's likeness, something that doesn't fit Fox's plans for the franchise moving forward, who knows.
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Post by: Joyboozer
Lady predators no longer have boobs. Imagine the nerd rage!
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
biggusdoggus wrote:So it's possible the box is still far from complete. If I were Fox I'd have rejected those multi part models - there's no way they can sell a game with 28mm models made from 15-20 parts in Toys-R-Us, or frankly even your LGS. It just won't sell to all but the most hardened gamers, and they've backed the game already for resin models. So those, imho, would need to be redesigned completely to mke the models 2-3 parts at best, and preferably single part.
If I were a betting man, I'd guess pre-assembled "restic" PVC models, average 3 parts per model. That would be a "best case" scenario, and seems to be where minis boardgames are going over the past few years. Super Dungeon Explore; Journey : Wrath of Demons; The Others : 7 Sins have all backed away from "build from many pieces" like the initial SDE and Sedition Wars releases. But that would still be better than Zombicide monoposes. While done very well for 1-piece models, they're stll "flat" and "soft" compared to PVC. Quite frankly, I think that Robotech's backers poisoned the well for AvP. The (completely undeserved) hue and cry over multi-part Robotech models probably made Fox gun-shy over similarly complex Aliens, Predators and Marines. Thankfully, Palladium is already locked into multi-part hard polystyrene plastics. I am still interested to see what, if anything, ever comes of the $380,000 GBP raised on KS. biggusdoggus wrote:The trouble is (for me at least) that the only thing we have to go on for any of this is Prodos' word, and unfortunately they've broken that far far too often during this campaign to allow me to believe anything they say at all right now. I don't think they've necessarily set out to fool us, to defraud or scam us, and I do believe that they themselves truly believe in their product and want to bring it to market, so in that respect they have done nothing wrong, but repeated miss-information whether by design or because of simple miss-understanding or because they've backed themselves into a legal corner with Fox and just don't have the experience, knowledge or expertise in knowing how to handle their relationship with both Fox and the backers means it's no longer possible to trust them when they use words like "soon". I won't be counting my chickens until I have a pile of resin on my paint table. One last point - they've been repeatedly asked to provide a list of all items in the game and their status - developed, approved, produced. It would not be difficult to do this without showing us a thing, without telling us anything about a release date. While I don't claim to understand the inner working of Fox, I can see no good reason why they would not provide that information to us
If we apply Occam's Razor, to reach the simplest possible explanation: 1. Prodos is out of money, out of time, and will not be able to deliver the project as promised.
2. Fox doesn't want their good name tarnished by Prodos' failure. That would be completely consistent with everything that has happened and said by Prodos. Prodos has already been caught in multiple un-truths (i.e. "lies"), and they currently have absolutely nothing to show for the work they claim is coming "soon". I would not be surprised to find that Prodos is actually attempting to renegotiate their contract for some reduction in royalties or payment schedule, in order to free up cash to pay vendors and put something on the shelves. And Fox is probably very sympathetic, like Paulie from Goodfellas:
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Post by: Pacific
 JohnHwangDD wrote:
That would be completely consistent with everything that has happened and said by Prodos. Prodos has already been caught in multiple un-truths (i.e. "lies"), and they currently have absolutely nothing to show for the work they claim is coming "soon". I would not be surprised to find that Prodos is actually attempting to renegotiate their contract for some reduction in royalties or payment schedule, in order to free up cash to pay vendors and put something on the shelves. And Fox is probably very sympathetic, like Paulie from Goodfellas:
Well... I think you certainly have an imagination, JohnHwang!
If you're going to apply Occam's razor to anything, and go on the simplest explanation, it's that they're probably telling the truth (or close to it) but communicating it badly, which is leaving the KS backers and fans to come up with their own ideas as to what is happening. And, in the dark corner of the room, they are now imagining the worst thing possible.
I think they are probably are inching towards a release, but the Fox IP issue has added whole extra barriers that usually games developers don't have to navigate. Possibly they told Beasts of War 'off the record' as April/May, which is where they get that figure from.
Certainly, I'm not ready to put the nails into the coffin for this KS yet!
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
If you're right, you'll be proven so and me wrong, "very soon".
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Post by: dekinrie
If you think we've got it bad take a look at the dust babylon kickstarter there talking lawyers and fraud already
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Post by: Nostromodamus
dekinrie wrote:If you think we've got it bad take a look at the dust babylon kickstarter there talking lawyers and fraud already
Indeed. Glad I stayed out of that one.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
What? DUST? Battlefront?
WHAT IN THE HELL IS A GOIN' ON IN HERE?!?
Dust via BF was supposed to be a slam dunk.
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Post by: Pacific
Well, I'm not a betting man either! I just hope I am right..
Although you could say I have already made a bet with the funds pledged for the KS. At this point it is honestly looking as though the Heroquest KS may arrive first, which you would never have said in a million years when both projects were running.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
I wouldn't count the HQ25th chickens just yet. I will be shocked if HQ25 makes retail in the US, and am leaning more toward backing Conan for that type of game.
I do hope that the AvP and Dust backers get their stuff.
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Post by: Pacific
I think in the UK/EU at least, free trade agreements will mean that KS backers in the EU at least will receive HQ. I'm not sure about the US/Canada, I don't know how much credence to put into that guy from the RPG game of the same name saying that they will be stopped at customs.
Although it's a fantastic looking product, some of the sculpts are lovely, it will be a shame if less people can get their hands on it because of lawyer-wars.
I think there is a lot being posted on various Spanish hobby show blogs and FB pages about the game, but like AvP the communications have been quite poor. And I think that's the toughest thing about all of this. I don't think most people would mind the delay as long as they knew "We are here, this is what we have made, this is what we are working on now, and what we are doing next week" and with a regular update, released at the same time, each week.
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Post by: PomWallaby
I saw Prodos at a con today. Plenty of Warzone on display looking great. But I think I finally get the AVP situation.
I believe as much as Prodos would like to tell us about AVP they can't. It seems self damaging not to do so but if they upset Fox everybody will miss out.
I saw painted AVP miniatures in person last year, they're great. I saw some new Warzone miniatures today, they're great to.
I don't know the inside story however I suspect Fox has clamped down on Prodos. I can understand Fox's reasons doing this since Prodos were publicly naming Fox for the delays. AVP seems to be in lockdown. In some ways this could be a good thing. I wouldn't have put it past Fox to cancel something.
Shame the project went this way, I just hope it gets wrapped up quickly so that everybody can put the experience behind them.
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Post by: gunslingerpro
PomWallaby wrote:I saw Prodos at a con today. Plenty of Warzone on display looking great. But I think I finally get the AVP situation.
I believe as much as Prodos would like to tell us about AVP they can't. It seems self damaging not to do so but if they upset Fox everybody will miss out.
I saw painted AVP miniatures in person last year, they're great. I saw some new Warzone miniatures today, they're great to.
I don't know the inside story however I suspect Fox has clamped down on Prodos. I can understand Fox's reasons doing this since Prodos were publicly naming Fox for the delays. AVP seems to be in lockdown. In some ways this could be a good thing. I wouldn't have put it past Fox to cancel something.
Shame the project went this way, I just hope it gets wrapped up quickly so that everybody can put the experience behind them.
Anytime you combine a conglomerate with a creative team, inevitably there will be friction. Considering the way major companies keep strangleholds on their IP, I'm sure we're not seeing anything abnormal.
In terms of Warzone, I got all my stuff (at it is lovely!), but it did take a bit of time longer than expected (some folks may be waiting still due to issues with the Icarus fighter cast).
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
All I ordered were the fething tiles... grr...
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Post by: Pacific
Insert your own *playing the world's smallest violin*-related meme here
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Post by: Siygess
 Alpharius wrote:Has Prodos completed delivery for the Warzone Kickstarter?
And if so, how late did it end up being?
Not quite, I think the people who ordered a Razide diorama are still waiting for it and there are bound to be half a dozen backers still trying to figure out where their pledges are.. but we are pretty much there. It's been a long road and mistakes were made but I think it has been an important experience for Prodos that they mostly learned from. There certainly aren't any hard feelings on my part, even with the recent resculpts.
As for the DUST.. er.. dust-up, I think what happens next is going to be an interesting 'what-if'. As in "What if Prodos tried to blurt out 'the truth' after FOX told them to shut the hell up."
Time will tell if it's better for the plucky underdog to do battle with the proverbial Goliath or if it is more productive to let the big guy pull your strings.
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Post by: CptJake
Prodos Games KS message/email wrote:Prodos Games Ltd says:
Hi there guys,
Apologies that it has been over a month now since our last message, we've had nothing really to report. However, we have been submitting and re-submitting items for the game where necessary just to get those final approvals coming through.
What I can tell you is that we have final approval on all the miniatures. We also have final approval on the Box art, which will be going to print soon.
We had to resubmit a couple of the tiles and have had to put copyright information on a few items we did not expect to.
We have submitted the full rulebook that is included in the boardgame, fully laid out, with artwork and text, which is awaiting approval. We used the Firefly boardgame as our reference point, to ensure we were getting it right. This has meant that we have had to remove a great deal of the fiction we wrote, but that will later be used as marketing material or be used for a variety of other things.
Once again, we thank you for your patience.
Prodos Games LTD
Soon!
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Post by: Pacific
OK, well positives to take from this
- There has been progress
- There is a communication
At this point my glass MUST be half full, couldn't bear it otherwise!
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Post by: warboss
Didn't they say that the minis were approved months and months ago? If so, is that really progress or just restating past progress? Or do you mean them apparently cutting out a bunch of stuff to speed up approval? I agree that at least it is communication though.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
CptJake wrote:Prodos Games KS message/email wrote:Prodos Games Ltd says:
Hi there guys,
Apologies that it has been over a month now since our last message, we've had nothing really to report. However, we have been submitting and re-submitting items for the game where necessary just to get those final approvals coming through.
What I can tell you is that we have final approval on all the miniatures. We also have final approval on the Box art, which will be going to print soon.
We had to resubmit a couple of the tiles and have had to put copyright information on a few items we did not expect to.
We have submitted the full rulebook that is included in the boardgame, fully laid out, with artwork and text, which is awaiting approval. We used the Firefly boardgame as our reference point, to ensure we were getting it right. This has meant that we have had to remove a great deal of the fiction we wrote, but that will later be used as marketing material or be used for a variety of other things.
Once again, we thank you for your patience.
Prodos Games LTD
VERY SOON!
Well, gak, I'm really glad we're past the "trust me" stage.
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Post by: CURNOW
That last paragraph is interesting .i think the fluff and colour text in the book was great and fox wanting it to fit in with the latest alien novels wanted it removed or made like a pile of gak to match
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Post by: Visceral_Mass
CURNOW wrote:That last paragraph is interesting .i think the fluff and colour text in the book was great and fox wanting it to fit in with the latest alien novels wanted it removed or made like a pile of gak to match
What I find more interesting is that, after having to cut the fluff from the rulebook, they are still planning on using it. Hopefully they got the OK from Fox to do that, otherwise it would seem an unwise decision to use it after being asked to cut it.
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Post by: CptJake
CURNOW wrote:That last paragraph is interesting .i think the fluff and colour text in the book was great and fox wanting it to fit in with the latest alien novels wanted it removed or made like a pile of gak to match
The reality is, we don't really know the reason they are taking it out. It could be several things/a combination of things. The draft they sent out a while back had about 50 pages of rules in a 100+ page document. Length could have been an issue.
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Post by: Joyboozer
How does cutting the fluff from the rulebook effect the narrative?
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Maybe we'll have to...
Forge our own narrative?
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Post by: Joyboozer
In the boardgame? I'm assuming it has missions/scenarios?
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Post by: biggusdoggus
indeed it does. at least the demo version we've seen does.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Is it soon yet?
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Post by: CptJake
By all the congratulatory back slapping on the Prodos forum after the last update I think we'll have our stuff Very Soon!
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Post by: Ruglud
Snippets from Facebook comments - not seen them on here - but soon may well be soon...
5 February
Asked about official Prodos studio painting guides / step-by-steps
Jarek Ever
we have tons of pained minis, we will get in touch with Fox to © them.
Rob Alderman
Not sure about the painting guides as the original painter is sadly no longer with the company.
I am sure there will be stuff whipped up by customers or by some poor employee (me, no doubt ).
I'd like to do them so that our demo team have a quick guide
Comments on (c) / ( TM) marks on board elements and figures/ bases
Jarek Ever
we had a lot of going back and forth with © on the elements, we could not agree to have it on every tile... and we have it now. however small enough to make Fox happy and without destroying the game. We alos been told to have © on the miniature bases (a but late in the process, right? ) , however the plastic injection tool is now in the last stage and Ts and i should be with us soon!
Jarek Ever
anyway more info in next update, helpfully this time with some real delivery date!
Jarek Ever
based on our experience,we cant win here. if you told to bend over, the best you can ask is "how much".
Asked if the bases now had feet modelled on our were one-piece with the figure....
Jarek Ever
models are not pre-assembled , thus you may just throw them [bases] away
Jarek Ever
back of it will have ©, no panic!
Rob Alderman
It was basically either copyright on the base, or under the leg (like an action figure)...
Star Wars collectable figures have the copyright on the base, I think X-Wing is on the actual model?
Yeah, don't panic!
Rob Alderman
Best part of this, is no slots in the middle. Only bad thing is we cannot pack them with Warzone figures!
Jarek Ever
lol, I remember Rob's face when they told us we need a © on the miniature.... WHAAAT?
Jarek Ever
but that is now... no go! Goo Prodos!
Jarek Ever
I think we are very very lucky anyway, otherwise we would have more like "cheap one piece lego-style models in the game", luckily our models blown away some top lads at Fox! -confirmed by them several times!
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Post by: chaos0xomega
Is anyone really bothered that they had to remove fluff from the books? Anyone? Anyone? No? Thats what I thought. If I want AVP fluff, I'll read the comics or watch the films or play the vidya games... oh wait, I already do all those things, thats why I'm buying the friggin game.
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Post by: Visceral_Mass
Does anyone else see a potential problem for Prodos having a copyright on the bottom of a round piece of plastic not immediately attached to anything that needs to be copyrighted?
Fox wants their copyright on ALL elements, is it possible that Fox thinks the figures will come assembled on those bases?
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Hopefully, Fox is following the discussion and understands that the bases are an optional part, not related to the miniature itself.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
JohnHwangDD wrote:Hopefully, Fox is following the discussion and understands that the bases are an optional part, not related to the miniature itself.
Hopefully this would have been made clear to them by Prodos, but nothing surprises me any more.
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
JohnHwangDD wrote:Hopefully, Fox is following the discussion and understands that the bases are an optional part, not related to the miniature itself.
It's all part of a master plan.
Next year Fox will claim that all 25mm bases are copyrighted by them and sue all other mini makers out of existence.
That's why GW is moving to 32mm bases.
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Post by: Rick_1138
 Kid_Kyoto wrote: JohnHwangDD wrote:Hopefully, Fox is following the discussion and understands that the bases are an optional part, not related to the miniature itself.
It's all part of a master plan.
Next year Fox will claim that all 25mm bases are copyrighted by them and sue all other mini makers out of existence.
That's why GW is moving to 32mm bases.
TBF Stranger things have happened, and it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.
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Post by: Ruglud
From Facebook...
Jarek Ever
According to Fox approval tracker, the revised game components has been reviewed ( approved with no changes needed) in the USA, now UK needs to give us the green light. The Box is "reviewed with changes", but this can be quick fix . In general getting excited, finally light at the end of the tunnel?
Jarek Ever
I don't think that I'll be in trouble if I share with you this pic. after all there is no sensitive information on it (not approved ), so this is just to back my words, Winston we will tomorrow after the phone call with, I hope we will get some date for you.
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Post by: Joyboozer
I have no idea what the picture means?
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Post by: Nostromodamus
I think this was the face that was supposed to be on that picture:
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Post by: Siygess
Ruglud wrote:
Jarek Ever
based on our experience,we cant win here. if you told to bend over, the best you can ask is "how much".
Indeed! I think that pretty much sums up their situation re: FOX nicely.
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Post by: biggusdoggus
I'm not sure what Jarek's post of the 20thC Fox system really brings to the table.
I mean - I guess (if we assume it's a recent screen grab - no reason not to) it at least confirms they are still talking to Fox and the project is still live, and that's a good thing, but other than that, all we know is everything is still pending. It doesn't even indicate that anything is approved (reviewed might mean approved and agreed I suppose). And we can't tell which bits come under which heading, so really we're no further forward.
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Post by: Pacific
I guess this is probably the more important bit?
Jarek Ever
According to Fox approval tracker, the revised game components has been reviewed ( approved with no changes needed) in the USA, now UK needs to give us the green light. The Box is "reviewed with changes", but this can be quick fix . In general getting excited, finally light at the end of the tunnel?
I definitely get the impression from the recent posts that things are moving onwards and upwards, although not ready to start holding my breath yet!
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Post by: biggusdoggus
Pacific wrote:I guess this is probably the more important bit?
Jarek Ever
According to Fox approval tracker, the revised game components has been reviewed ( approved with no changes needed) in the USA, now UK needs to give us the green light. The Box is "reviewed with changes", but this can be quick fix . In general getting excited, finally light at the end of the tunnel?
I definitely get the impression from the recent posts that things are moving onwards and upwards, although not ready to start holding my breath yet!
I guess it rather depends on how much you believe of what we've been told in the past, and whether you're prepared to just ignore the blatant miss-truths we were fed
I'd agree that there seems to be at least the impression of things moving forward, and I think we have to hope that this new found ability to give us more information is a sign that things have settled down between Prodos and Fox. Though it's interesting that it still looks they aren't supposed to be sharing this info.
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Post by: benbo11
Yes!! Finally!!!!!! My money is yours. 
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Post by: Pacific
biggusdoggus wrote: Pacific wrote:I guess this is probably the more important bit?
Jarek Ever
According to Fox approval tracker, the revised game components has been reviewed ( approved with no changes needed) in the USA, now UK needs to give us the green light. The Box is "reviewed with changes", but this can be quick fix . In general getting excited, finally light at the end of the tunnel?
I definitely get the impression from the recent posts that things are moving onwards and upwards, although not ready to start holding my breath yet!
I guess it rather depends on how much you believe of what we've been told in the past, and whether you're prepared to just ignore the blatant miss-truths we were fed
I'd agree that there seems to be at least the impression of things moving forward, and I think we have to hope that this new found ability to give us more information is a sign that things have settled down between Prodos and Fox. Though it's interesting that it still looks they aren't supposed to be sharing this info.
Fair points. I always tend to blame incompetence rather than maliciousness. I think most of the hold-ups we have seen so far are more to do with Prodos stumbling around in the dark with the issues of running a KS, and of the Fox licensing arrangements, and then of being very poor at communicating those stumblings.
Although, perhaps I am just being overly optimistic in hoping that at least the KS backers will have something within the next couple of months - certainly, having seen some of these minis in the flesh, it would be a crime against miniature wargaming if they were never to be released!
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Post by: biggusdoggus
Pacific wrote:
Fair points. I always tend to blame incompetence rather than maliciousness. I think most of the hold-ups we have seen so far are more to do with Prodos stumbling around in the dark with the issues of running a KS, and of the Fox licensing arrangements, and then of being very poor at communicating those stumblings.
Although, perhaps I am just being overly optimistic in hoping that at least the KS backers will have something within the next couple of months - certainly, having seen some of these minis in the flesh, it would be a crime against miniature wargaming if they were never to be released!
I think in general I'm in agreement with you there. I remain a pessimist on timescales though. 2nd quarter is my bet. I do believe it will happen. Soon ;-)
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Post by: Pacific
I think the most depressing thing at this point will be going to Salute, and seeing exactly the same miniatures in exactly the same positions in the cabinet, with no box set yet released and none of the Prodos staff there able to talk about when we might see it!
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Post by: Ruglud
Yarp - if SOON( tm) isn't by Salute (24 Apr) I'll be by passing Prodos if they have the same 'prototypes' on display... Plenty of other shinies to drool over and spend my hard earned cash on 
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Post by: biggusdoggus
I don't think they've been showing any of the AvP miniatures at shows since everything went crazy in November, so don't hold out for seeing anything at Salute. I do hope they have a finished boxset to show off by then, but if they don't, I'd guess they won't be allowed by Fox to show off anything.
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Post by: Ruglud
From Facebook
Rob Alderman:
Hello all!
We just wanted to update you very quickly on our progress. As you can see, by following the link below, the revised game components have been approved in the USA. This is often the longest part of the approval for any 'part' of the game so far. The UK will hopefully give us the green light in the next few days.
We really appreciate your patience so far guys and as you can see, this is really close now. We're going to call Fox on Monday and hopefully get some response from them. Of course, they may need to sit down, have a meeting about it, etc, so it may not be an immediate answer. Once we know more, we will tell you.
The box itself is 'reviewed with changes', which should be a whistlestop yes. Basically, we sent it to be approved, they pointed out some specific issues (for example, misplacement of the copyright information), we have fixed those, so they should just be looking for those issues.
Apologies for Jarek's artistry on this screenshot. I think he just got excited. In fairness, he could have drawn something much worse!
Thanks again,
Prodos Games LTD
[Note: This is the same screenshot that I posted already, so spoilered here]
Facebook comments between KS backers & Rob:
KS Backer 1:
so I see three items (or perhaps groups of item) as pending and 2 as reviewed with changes. If one of those is the box art, what are the three pendings and the other reviewed with changes items ?
Rob Alderman:
1st is the whole boxed set. If you click that link, it would show you a huge list of items
The second is the box cover.
The third is the unit/squad boxes cover.
KS Backer 1:
still like that original artwork over the newer box. It looks way classier. #justasyin
Rob Alderman:
Aye, but we were asked to change it to something 'punchier'. I like the old cover too.
Rob Alderman:
Granted, I like the new one as well!
KS Backer 1:
so everything in the box, including the rulebook, is now fully approved, signed off, and therefore either already produced or in the process of being produced (presses rolling for rulebook/tiles/cards/tokens etc) ?
and we're just waiting on minute changes to the box layout that have essentially been instructed in detail by Fox, and now done by yourselves and returned to them, and therefore you would hope will be reviewed and approved with all haste.
Am I understanding correctly?
Rob Alderman:
I think so yes, we are waiting for final green light from UK then we can start pumping these bad boys out.
KS Backer 2:
Is there a rough production timeline from "green light" to shipping?
Rob Alderman:
No, we cannot give timelines or estimates.
KS Backer 2:
understood
Rob Alderman:
In any case, I think we will know ourselves how long it will take after a week of shipping.
I think Assembly (putting stuff in the boxes) will probably be the biggest time consumer!
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Post by: Joyboozer
If assembly takes longer than approval, we're all totally fethed
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Post by: biggusdoggus
Joyboozer wrote:If assembly takes longer than approval, we're all totally fethed
Thankfully Prodos do not use restic. Cleanup and assembly can be done within our lifetimes.
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Post by: SeanDrake
biggusdoggus wrote:Joyboozer wrote:If assembly takes longer than approval, we're all totally fethed
Thankfully Prodos do not use restic. Cleanup and assembly can be done within our lifetimes.
Having dealt with some warzone mini's you may be being a little optimistic.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
biggusdoggus wrote:Joyboozer wrote:If assembly takes longer than approval, we're all totally fethed
Thankfully Prodos do not use restic. Cleanup and assembly can be done within our lifetimes.
I think by "assembly" he meant "Prodos putting everything in the boxes" rather than assembling the models.
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Post by: biggusdoggus
SeanDrake wrote:biggusdoggus wrote:Joyboozer wrote:If assembly takes longer than approval, we're all totally fethed
Thankfully Prodos do not use restic. Cleanup and assembly can be done within our lifetimes.
Having dealt with some warzone mini's you may be being a little optimistic.
Having struggled with Sedition Wars, nothing I've seen of the Prodos minis frightens me at all.
Alex C wrote:biggusdoggus wrote:Joyboozer wrote:If assembly takes longer than approval, we're all totally fethed
Thankfully Prodos do not use restic. Cleanup and assembly can be done within our lifetimes.
I think by "assembly" he meant "Prodos putting everything in the boxes" rather than assembling the models.
You may be right. Interestingly Rob Alderman posted on this very issue this weekend.
Rob Alderman In any case, I think we will know ourselves how long it will take after a week of shipping.
I think Assembly (putting stuff in the boxes) will probably be the biggest time consumer!
It might be that when they've said they'll be shipping around 50 per day (something they said during the KS) they are factoring in assembly which is why the figure is so low, but yes I agree - it's likely going to be a painfully slow process.
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Post by: His Master's Voice
Hmmm, 50 a day seems pretty low if all they're doing is packing orders.
If, on the other hand, they're actually assembling the boxed games, then God save them.
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Post by: Bolognesus
50 a day would be >1000/month on a 5 day week.
They have fewer orders/backers than that. Really, <1 month delay is a drop in the sea by now.
(That is, if it ever gets that far...)
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Post by: biggusdoggus
 Bolognesus wrote:50 a day would be >1000/month on a 5 day week.
They have fewer orders/backers than that. Really, <1 month delay is a drop in the sea by now.
(That is, if it ever gets that far...)
I seem to recall they have around 2500 backers including those who bought on after the KS ended.
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Post by: His Master's Voice
Well, some of those would have skipped the box, like me.
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Post by: biggusdoggus
true. You're in for a horribly long wait.
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Post by: Bolognesus
biggusdoggus wrote: Bolognesus wrote:50 a day would be >1000/month on a 5 day week.
They have fewer orders/backers than that. Really, <1 month delay is a drop in the sea by now.
(That is, if it ever gets that far...)
I seem to recall they have around 2500 backers including those who bought on after the KS ended.
Seems you're right. My bad. That would be somewhat annoying (though still even a 3 month wait isn't that much on this timescale anymore...)
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Post by: His Master's Voice
Every single KS I backed, I mentally added a year to the delivery date. It's working out so far.
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Post by: biggusdoggus
Not a bad ethos, though I don't think most of the issues here are about the delays so much as the poor and often miss-leading communication mixed with the implied issues post KS implosion. In truth it's probably that everything is indeed ok, and just behind schedule, but the reality is that Prodos burnt the bridges they needed to maintain confidence by treating backers as an annoyance early on, and now almost no matter what they say, it's taken with a pinch of salt. Their only safe exit now is to deliver, and while I believe they will, the damage they've done to their company (whether through fault of their own or not) is huge.
Personally I've had my view of KS skewed by being a Battle Systems backer. I know it is perfectly possible to run a brilliant campaign, be up front and honest with backers, have nothing more than the merest of delays despite a very complicated project, and still end up barely a word of criticism being aimed at ones head. They broke the mould set by so many and proved it can be done. Despite (or perhaps because of) being only a small company of 2 guys struggling to get their vision funded and out there, they hold down real life jobs to keep their families going on top of their KS efforts, and they still manage to communicate regularly enough to make others (not just Prodos) look like incompetent amateurs. Bigger companies frankly have no excuse for their pitiful performance.
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Post by: RivenSkull
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Post by: cincydooley
 RivenSkull wrote:http://variety.com/2015/film/news/new-alien-movie-confirmed-at-fox-with-director-neill-blomkamp-1201436551/
I wonder if this has had anything to do with the long approval times.
Could be. But all I know is that Blomkamp on an Alien movie can only mean good things.
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Post by: Ruglud
Posted yesterday (18Feb) on Facebook: Rob Alderman
Just spoke with the guys, they have a meeting this week to review a few of the products, we just have to sit tight until they get back to us basically. Sorry I can't report anything more positive!
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Post by: Visceral_Mass
RivenSkull wrote:http://variety.com/2015/film/news/new-alien-movie-confirmed-at-fox-with-director-neill-blomkamp-1201436551/
I wonder if this has had anything to do with the long approval times.
I doubt it, considering the movie probably doesn't even have a script yet. The problem, if one exists outside of Prodos' inexperience dealing with a license holder, more than likely stems from the whole Aliens: Colonial Marines mess.
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Post by: BrookM
I wonder what sort of heavy-handed social commentary the director will shovel into this movie.
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Post by: Silent Puffin?
 BrookM wrote:I wonder what sort of heavy-handed social commentary the director will shovel into this movie.
If its anything like Elysium and District 9 it will be relevant and interesting.
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Post by: Stormonu
 Silent Puffin? wrote: BrookM wrote:I wonder what sort of heavy-handed social commentary the director will shovel into this movie.
If its anything like Elysium and District 9 it will be relevant and interesting.
I hope you're being sarcastic. Though I haven't seen Elysium, District 9 was a waste of my viewing time. Don't want it's director anywhere near an Alien movie, though it'd be hard to get worse than Resurrection for gakking up the series.
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Post by: Sining
Elysium was pretty boring as a film.
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Post by: angelofvengeance
District 9 was pretty awesome IMO. Loved the mech suit and weaponry.
Elysium was pretty meh but had some interesting tech in it.
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Post by: biggusdoggus
Stormonu wrote:
I hope you're being sarcastic. Though I haven't seen Elysium, District 9 was a waste of my viewing time. Don't want it's director anywhere near an Alien movie, though it'd be hard to get worse than Resurrection for gakking up the series.
If you think District 9 was bad (and while I don't disagree, many would), you're in for a big disappointment with Elysium - it's far far worse.
I've seen little from Blomkamp to suggest he's the right man for the job of resurrecting (no pun intended) the Alien series. He may be, but the evidence isn't there. I've seen somebody say "it'll be ok as he's a huge fan" - sadly that makes no difference if his professional craft and ability just aren't up to the task. I predict a disjointed film that looks good but has little or no plot or at least one that doesn't actually make any logical sense.
You're right - he can hardly do worse than Resurrection, but that shouldn't be his, Fox's or our benchmark.
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Post by: Pacific
At this point, I'm resigned to enjoying the first couple of films and the first two Predator movies on repeat views. I think the literature, the graphic novels, the odd computer game (and these miniatures hopefully!) are where to look for quality surrounding the franchise. I think as far as the big screen is concerned, other than whatever Ridley Scott does with Prometheus, I don't hold any hope for a new Aliens film or, woe betide, a new AvP film.
angelofvengeance wrote:District 9 was pretty awesome IMO. Loved the mech suit and weaponry.
Elysium was pretty meh but had some interesting tech in it.
Yes I feel the same way. Preferred District 9, but the bad guy in Elysium (and his cronies) was excellent, I thought made the film. It was a shame he didn't get more screen time, and as you say some of the tech ideas were excellent (also, some pretty gross ways of killing people!)
It also had a few nice touches - being interviewed by the parole droid for instance, you can imagine society in some quarters being like that in 25-30 years for sure.
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Post by: His Master's Voice
biggusdoggus wrote:I predict a disjointed film that looks good but has little or no plot or at least one that doesn't actually make any logical sense.
Blomkamp has a good eye and a penchant for spectacular design, but not much understanding of good storytelling, something that can and should be shorn up by the screenwriters and creative producers, something that neither D9, nor Elysium had.
While I wouldn't hold my breath for the next Alien, there's a non trivial chance they whole thing can actually work in ways no Aliens move past the first one did. At the very least, I expect no one will get crushed under an alien Ferris wheel.
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Post by: Visceral_Mass
Pacific wrote:At this point, I'm resigned to enjoying the first couple of films and the first two Predator movies on repeat views. I think the literature, the graphic novels, the odd computer game (and these miniatures hopefully!) are where to look for quality surrounding the franchise. I think as far as the big screen is concerned, other than whatever Ridley Scott does with Prometheus, I don't hold any hope for a new Aliens film or, woe betide, a new AvP film.
angelofvengeance wrote:District 9 was pretty awesome IMO. Loved the mech suit and weaponry.
Elysium was pretty meh but had some interesting tech in it.
Yes I feel the same way. Preferred District 9, but the bad guy in Elysium (and his cronies) was excellent, I thought made the film. It was a shame he didn't get more screen time, and as you say some of the tech ideas were excellent (also, some pretty gross ways of killing people!)
It also had a few nice touches - being interviewed by the parole droid for instance, you can imagine society in some quarters being like that in 25-30 years for sure.
I wouldn't exactly call the EU stuff "quality". Some of it may be entertaining, but no where near the "quality" of most of the movies. I'd rank most of it below Alien 3 in terms of quality. I'd take a new film any day over the comics, games, and novels.
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Post by: Joyboozer
Oh for feths sake, considering how hard it is to get any info on where this game is up to, is it really that hard to keep on topic?
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Isn't the movie what's holding up the approvals at Fox?
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Post by: Joyboozer
I wouldn't know, this is the Blomkamp thread.
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Post by: CptJake
Interestingly enough, speculation on the film is the only topic with recent posts on the official Prodos Forums:
http://forum.prodosgames.com/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=1875&sid=18d73a9aa89e815c035c02f9ce99eb2a&start=10
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Post by: Joyboozer
Where they mention it's off topic to discuss the game...
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Post by: CptJake
I figured you would catch that.
To be fair, they do have topics to discus the game (both the status and the actual game) but those topics had not been posted to as recently.
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Post by: Pacific
JohnHwangDD - I think that was just supposition, wasn't there a post from Prodos recently saying that was not the case?
 Visceral_Mass wrote: Pacific wrote:At this point, I'm resigned to enjoying the first couple of films and the first two Predator movies on repeat views. I think the literature, the graphic novels, the odd computer game (and these miniatures hopefully!) are where to look for quality surrounding the franchise. I think as far as the big screen is concerned, other than whatever Ridley Scott does with Prometheus, I don't hold any hope for a new Aliens film or, woe betide, a new AvP film.
angelofvengeance wrote:District 9 was pretty awesome IMO. Loved the mech suit and weaponry.
Elysium was pretty meh but had some interesting tech in it.
Yes I feel the same way. Preferred District 9, but the bad guy in Elysium (and his cronies) was excellent, I thought made the film. It was a shame he didn't get more screen time, and as you say some of the tech ideas were excellent (also, some pretty gross ways of killing people!)
It also had a few nice touches - being interviewed by the parole droid for instance, you can imagine society in some quarters being like that in 25-30 years for sure.
EU stuff? What is that?
I assume nothing to do with the European Union (as much as I like the idea of an AvP showdown taking place in Cornwall or something )
I wouldn't exactly call the EU stuff "quality". Some of it may be entertaining, but no where near the "quality" of most of the movies. I'd rank most of it below Alien 3 in terms of quality. I'd take a new film any day over the comics, games, and novels.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Pacific wrote:JohnHwangDD - I think that was just supposition, wasn't there a post from Prodos recently saying that was not the case?
Prodos says a lot of things.
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Post by: Visceral_Mass
EU = Expanded Universe.
In other words. anything that isn't one of the movies.
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Post by: Joyboozer
Is it soon yet?
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Post by: CptJake
VERY SOON!
A slew of new topics on the official discussion forums over the weekend!
http://forum.prodosgames.com/viewforum.php?f=39&sid=832caeaaa42b4a253a087fa8ef4e0d55
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Industrial grinding is kinda on-topic there though...
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Post by: Ruglud
Listed on the Salute participation / demonstration games... GA17P
Alien V Predator
Sci-Fi 32mm
Hosted by the Prodos Games Crusaders, AVP is a gritty and fun games played in a variety of ways. Come and play some games in a destroyed Weyland-Yutani Colony.
www.prodosgames.com
http://www.salute.co.uk/salute/salute-2015/
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Post by: JoeRugby
So it's gone from a 28mm game to 32mm already.
I wonder if the marines will stay at the 32mm to the top of their head (this will just fit in with my collection) mentioned in the kickstarter comments or if they are now over 35mm like some of the Warzone humans.(my dreams of some imperial blood berets in my collection has been dashed already )
(The scale thing bugs me a lot )
Even if they are at least I still get some cool aliens n preds....soonish...maybe
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Post by: Nostromodamus
They were always billed as 32mm weren't they?
Maybe I'm misremembering.
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Post by: JoeRugby
 Alex C wrote:They were always billed as 32mm weren't they?
Maybe I'm misremembering.
Was listed on kickstarter as a 28mm game (but then Warzone Resurection was originally as well).
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Post by: Pacific
It's 28mm, in the sense that lots of other games out there pertain to be '28mm', but actually when you measure them are closer to 30-32mm.
It's kind of the elephant in the room when it comes to miniature game scaling. I wouldn't worry about it - the miniatures will be exactly the scale you expect them to be when they say '28mm', judging from the size comparison shots they posted previously.
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Post by: JoeRugby
Too true.
And if it stays that the humans are up to 32mm tall that will be fine by me I'm just worried after what happened with Warzone.
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Post by: biggusdoggus
JoeRugby wrote:Too true.
And if it stays that the humans are up to 32mm tall that will be fine by me I'm just worried after what happened with Warzone.
What happened? I've not heard any furore over scale issues.
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Post by: JoeRugby
biggusdoggus wrote: JoeRugby wrote:Too true.
And if it stays that the humans are up to 32mm tall that will be fine by me I'm just worried after what happened with Warzone.
What happened? I've not heard any furore over scale issues.
Don't think there was furore a couple of people seemed a little miffed their old Warzone figs were out of scale but not many people seem to mind their minis being a few mm off with their other minis (I'm a freak  )
The kickstarter was billed as 28mm, but after people got their stuff they noticed they were a big big (the doom trooper that was a KS exclusive is about 37mm tall if I remember correctly).
When the minis were packaged for retail Prodos had then changed the scale on the packaging to 32mm scale. I'd say their too tall to say their this scale but again Freak
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Post by: Pacific
biggusdoggus wrote: JoeRugby wrote:Too true.
And if it stays that the humans are up to 32mm tall that will be fine by me I'm just worried after what happened with Warzone.
What happened? I've not heard any furore over scale issues.
I think if you look back about 65-70 pages or so, I'm not completely sure!
There definitely was some discussion about it though.
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Post by: biggusdoggus
JoeRugby wrote:
Don't think there was furore a couple of people seemed a little miffed their old Warzone figs were out of scale but not many people seem to mind their minis being a few mm off with their other minis (I'm a freak )
So people got upset that new figures were a different scale to the game that was released almost 20 years ago by a different company? Heaven forbid they collect GW 40k stuff - it brings me to tears to sit my old beakies next to modern day space marines.
The kickstarter was billed as 28mm, but after people got their stuff they noticed they were a big big (the doom trooper that was a KS exclusive is about 37mm tall if I remember correctly).
When the minis were packaged for retail Prodos had then changed the scale on the packaging to 32mm scale. I'd say their too tall to say their this scale but again Freak
I don't think anything Prodos has done has changed (scale wise) during the course of design and manufacture. Sure they are now saying 32mm (from the top of the head) rather than 28mm (from the eyes), but that's all. Everything I've seen both from their WZR range and their AvP range sits well with other ranges that claim one of those standards whether it be individual sculpts from hasslefree or heresy, or ranges such as infinity. People get far too caught up with exact scale which if you think about it is often ridiculous. i'm not the same height as you (probably) and we all have friends who either tower above us or are much shorter - it's a fact of life that human being vary considerably.
That said, I get that things have to "fit" - as a sedition wars backer, I'm annoyed at the drastic differences between wave 1 and wave 2 minis from that game, with some of the wave 2 sculpts coming out ridiculously small - by which I mean not so much height differences, but also insanely puny arms and legs. Some of the special editon characters look very out of place when stood next to normal troopers, and the second Barker variant is about 20% smaller in wave 2 then he was in wave 1 despite it being obvious that the same green was used for the core components. It's important for any game company to be consistent across its range.
In short all Prodos have done is change the description of the scale, nothing more. Automatically Appended Next Post: Just posted to Facebook .....
Alien vs Predator The Miniatures Game
3 mins ·
Happy Days! We have just got final approval for all aspects of the game, with the exception of the rules. The rules are in the final stages and just need to be sent to a professional proofing company. We will continue to update when we can, but it's fair to say that today is a good day. I suspect there will be some celebrating tonight in Prodos Towers!
I guess this is good news, though of course it does mean we're waiting on the rules - professional proofing of a 100+ page document, and then approval of that I assume. Could easily be another month or two, especially if the proof readers bring up issues.
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