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Post by: angelofvengeance
Well I'm pretty chuffed anyways- will be nice to put this AvP business to bed.
83501
Post by: Nostromodamus
Well, that's good I suppose, but the timeframe is still very much "soon".
When they say "all aspects of the game", do they mean just the core set or EVERYTHING? We gonna be waiting another year for the rest or not?
80154
Post by: biggusdoggus
 Alex C wrote:Well, that's good I suppose, but the timeframe is still very much "soon".
When they say "all aspects of the game", do they mean just the core set or EVERYTHING? We gonna be waiting another year for the rest or not?
Indeed - it's very much an update that says little more than "Soon"
It's my understanding that they have concentrated entirely on the boxset in recent weeks/months, so I think it likely that's all they are referring to now. Of course in fairness much of the wave 2 stuff is already done - certainly the vast majority of the models are already cast. This does leave the wargame rules - a major undertaking I suspect.
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Post by: CptJake
biggusdoggus wrote: Alex C wrote:Well, that's good I suppose, but the timeframe is still very much "soon".
When they say "all aspects of the game", do they mean just the core set or EVERYTHING? We gonna be waiting another year for the rest or not?
Indeed - it's very much an update that says little more than "Soon"
It's my understanding that they have concentrated entirely on the boxset in recent weeks/months, so I think it likely that's all they are referring to now. Of course in fairness much of the wave 2 stuff is already done - certainly the vast majority of the models are already cast. This does leave the wargame rules - a major undertaking I suspect.
Wave 2 models being cast really is only a small portion of what Wave 2 should entail. You have the cards to use those models, the packaging for those models, any rules needed fro those models and so on.
Questions: One of the stretch goals was a set of tiles for a Predator ship, right? Is that going to be a Wave 2 item?
83501
Post by: Nostromodamus
I'm pretty sure the Pred ship tiles were an add on.
4402
Post by: CptJake
Okay, as an add on, are they in Wave 2?
83501
Post by: Nostromodamus
I might be thinking Shadows of Brimstone, but wasn't it wave 1 core game, wave 2 everything else?
If only there was some form of media where they could publish such information for anyone to see...
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Post by: CptJake
You may be right. At one point (I think) Prodos intended to ship everything at once, but I do now seem to remember Wave 1 would be just the boxed game.
Anyone have any idea if the Predator tiles will include any special rules, or are they going to be graphically different but functionally identical to the tiles in the game box?
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Post by: biggusdoggus
I thought the predator ship tiles were on the flipside of the standard USCM ship tiles - ie an upgrade to what we already had? I could easily be wrong, it's not something I plan to be using much once I've learned the basics of the game.
Wave 1 is most certainly nothing other than the boxset. if it ain't in the box, it's coming in Wave 2.
You're right CptJake there are other components to wave 2, but most are either in the rulebook or an offshoot to the rulebook (cards etc). The packaging is certainly an issue, but it ought to be the same for all figures so I'd hope it's a case of solve for one, solved for all. However it's all done, we do know they all but dropped work on Wave 2 to get the boxset (and the retail set I think?  out of the door.
So yes - we can expect to be waiting a while yet for wave 2.
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Post by: Pacific
Pretty sure they said that their would be a delay to second wave, with the KS box set sent out immediately.
biggusdoggus wrote: Alex C wrote:Well, that's good I suppose, but the timeframe is still very much "soon".
When they say "all aspects of the game", do they mean just the core set or EVERYTHING? We gonna be waiting another year for the rest or not?
Indeed - it's very much an update that says little more than "Soon"
It is, but at least things are moving forward. Miniature re-sculpting could have been a massive time sink, whereas you have to think 'we don't like that line of text where the facehugger attacks the kitten' would be much faster remedied. So, hearing that the miniatures have got approval I think is pretty encouraging.
I refuse to lose my positivity!
14557
Post by: Visceral_Mass
I'm surprised Fox OK'd having their copyright on the bottom of the unattached base and not on the actual miniatures.
Unless of course there was some sort of miscommunication and Fox actually thinks the components of the box will come preassembled. But, that sort of mistake would never happen, right? 
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Post by: CURNOW
Great i have nothing in wave 1 .think im gona officially give up on this one and write off the £200 as a loss
72224
Post by: Joyboozer
Seriously at this point, why the feth is this thing still two waves?
7075
Post by: chaos0xomega
Wait, where is this discussion of waves coming from? I havent seen Prodos use that terminology in months, and even then, they said it was something they were merely contemplating in an effort to get approved product into our hands faster, not something they were dead set on doing.
72224
Post by: Joyboozer
It was buried by all the off topic movie discussion!
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Post by: CptJake
chaos0xomega wrote:Wait, where is this discussion of waves coming from? I havent seen Prodos use that terminology in months, and even then, they said it was something they were merely contemplating in an effort to get approved product into our hands faster, not something they were dead set on doing.
I would point you to the relevant posts in the KS comments and updates, but that isn't possible.
72224
Post by: Joyboozer
If all the sculpts have been approved why are we still not allowed to see them?
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Post by: Pacific
I'm sure we will do at some point soon now, they only announced this about 24 hours ago.
I'm not 100% on the wave thing, I guess I should shut up!
80154
Post by: biggusdoggus
they've repeatedly said they can't show us anything now until everything is ready to go, on pain of death, because Fox.
Here's a brief summary of the "wave thing" ....
Early in the project we are told that on no account will they ship in waves because that killed them in WZR and they can't afford to do so.
They repeated this statement throughout the kickstarter and even beyond the KS disappearing in November. They also repeatedly said they'd make a Christmas delivery of everything. Timeline (in November) was "soon".
Then shortly after things went a bit Pete Tong, they admitted they'd miss Christmas for everything and have to ship in waves so that at least we'd have something. Initially they stated they'd ship wave 2 (add-ons first as this was ready) and it would give us something to do while we waited for the board game.
Near the year end (or possibly shortly into the new year) they changed their minds and told us they needed to ship wave 1 (the box set) first and would not be starting work on getting wave 2 approved until after wave 1 was shipped.
and that's where we're at. ETA is still "soon".
We don't know what (if any) work has been done on wave 2 artwork (packaging, rulebook etc) except that we can be sure that a large number (but not necessarily all - young bloods, clears, terrain perhaps) of the pours have been done.
and now we know the box set rulebook, that ideally should have been almost the first thing that was completed - months ago - is now holding up wave 1, and still has to go to proof reading. We might be mere weeks away. It could easily be months.
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Post by: Joyboozer
It'll blow up. Soon.
34906
Post by: Pacific
Here is the pic
Can see a few helmets on there, and of course some skull and other accessories that no Predator who knows where its at will be without!
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Post by: CptJake
Some of those sprue attachment points look like they will be a mess to clean up.
Glad to see progress though.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Ok, so the retail copies are making progress.
What about the stuff meant for backers?
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
 Pacific wrote:Here is the pic
Can see a few helmets on there, and of course some skull and other accessories that no Predator who knows where its at will be without!
So, it's just like Robotech with things that people need to build, versus things that they can just start playing with out of the box.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
They have never said it would be pre-assembled, and have always shown multi-part models, both resin and plastic.
As much as Prodos' communication has been bad, on this subject things have been quite clear all along.
Whether it's a good idea for a board game or not, well, probably not. But it is what it is.
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Post by: CptJake
Alex C wrote:They have never said it would be pre-assembled, and have always shown multi-part models, both resin and plastic.
Well, that may not be be accurate, they DID say
In late 2014 there will be a large scale produced version which will include 1 or 2 piece plastic versions of each model and will be independent of KS
So showing sprues with 10+ pieces for a Predator does kind of go against what they originally said. 1 piece figures would be pre-assembled, and even 2 pieces is a lot closer than these sprues.
http://web.archive.org/web/20140620165949/https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/513277403/alien-vs-predator-the-miniatures-game
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Ah, must have missed that, fair enough!
I guess comms were shaky there too
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Post by: CptJake
Honestly I was really looking forward to the simplified models. As use for demo games (especially with kids) they would have stood up a lot better than the KS resins will. And I would not be (as) upset when my daughter painted them all funky.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Perhaps the change is part of the reason Prodos is keeping the KS down due to "IP dispute"?
That way, backers cannot directly see what Prodos originally promised, nor reply via KS messaging?
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Post by: CptJake
They can still send and receive (and read) messages via the KS messaging system (and we can still send them).
If you go to the (non-WayBack) KS page you'll see you still have the option of sending the creator a message. And they used the system 6 march to let us know how the rule book is the only thing not done.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Sorry, should have written "comments".
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Post by: CptJake
Yep, the comments are probably a HUGE reason they are keeping the page down at this point.
It is too public a forum to be flogged on and I'm sure they and Fox want to avoid that.
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Post by: Ruglud
Not AvP news, but posted on facebook...
Prodos Games
Have you always dreamed of designing your own miniatures, of personalising them?
With Prodos Games' new service you can commission your own miniature head design (28mm heroic or 32mm). All you need to do is send us some photos and we will 3D render your chosen head. We can even turn you into an Orc, Dwarf, Elf or Zombie, for example. Once we have the render complete we will then vary the features so you could have someone screaming, concentrating, grimacing, thinking, happy or sad for example.
Once there are 5 variants we will print them on our state of the art printer and then cast them for you!
How much will all that cost, I hear you ask, hundreds of pounds/dollars/Euros right? WRONG...
For a 3D render of your chosen head, then sculpted in 5 variants and then 2 of each variant printed the cost is just £80.
If you want more heads we can cast a set of the 5 variants for £4/set by adding from the 3D shop.
For business/commercial printing and casting, please contact service@prodos.co.uk
http://shop.prodosgames.com/en/53-3d-design
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Post by: Nostromodamus
This was mentioned in News and Rumors.
Apparently they want to sell custom heads so that the company can continue to employ 20-odd people.
Hopefully they're in business long enough to fulfill orders...
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Post by: warboss
Sweet! I can finally get a custom fig head made of myself and my best friend by Prodos in the pic below.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Here's a mugshot I recently had done, I wonder if they could make somethng like it for me?
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Post by: angelofvengeance
OK Alex, we get that you're pining away for your AvP loot. (like the rest of us) But can we stop with the grumpy old man posts? Please?
We get that the project is massively overdue. We really do. Same boat and all that.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Oh ok then, I suppose so
With this forum being practically the only way to express my frustrations without Prodos editing them out, I guess I'm getting a bit carried away 
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Post by: Pacific
 angelofvengeance wrote:OK Alex, we get that you're pining away for your AvP loot. (like the rest of us) But can we stop with the grumpy old man posts? Please?
We get that the project is massively overdue. We really do. Same boat and all that.
Yes I feel the same way. Although, your torpedoing of the new Prodos thread about the face scanning was pretty impressive, don't think the guy posting there knew what hit him(!)
But yeah, enjoy reading your posts generally so would rather you didn't have to join the bunch of trolls and contrarians on my ignore list (although, don't think that really matters to anyone but myself! )
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Post by: CptJake
Alex C wrote:Oh ok then, I suppose so
With this forum being practically the only way to express my frustrations without Prodos editing them out, I guess I'm getting a bit carried away
I've made some not so complementary posts on their official forums and have not had anyone delete or edit my posts. Having said that, Dakka is sure to get a LOT more views than the Prodos forums so the criticism will get a wider audience here. You are also less likely to have a slew of fan boys give you a ton of Reasons Prodos Is Great! responses that don't really address any legitimate issue you may actually have.
83501
Post by: Nostromodamus
Disengaging grumpy old man mode....... now!
Why did winky Ork get changed to the Australian flag?
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Post by: HudsonD
 Ruglud wrote:Not AvP news, but posted on facebook...
Prodos Games
Have you always dreamed of designing your own miniatures, of personalising them?
With Prodos Games' new service you can commission your own miniature head design (28mm heroic or 32mm). All you need to do is send us some photos and we will 3D render your chosen head. We can even turn you into an Orc, Dwarf, Elf or Zombie, for example. Once we have the render complete we will then vary the features so you could have someone screaming, concentrating, grimacing, thinking, happy or sad for example.
Once there are 5 variants we will print them on our state of the art printer and then cast them for you!(...)
Now to contact some model friends of mine...
69513
Post by: Prodos
Pacific wrote: angelofvengeance wrote:OK Alex, we get that you're pining away for your AvP loot. (like the rest of us) But can we stop with the grumpy old man posts? Please?
We get that the project is massively overdue. We really do. Same boat and all that.
Yes I feel the same way. Although, your torpedoing of the new Prodos thread about the face scanning was pretty impressive, don't think the guy posting there knew what hit him(!)
But yeah, enjoy reading your posts generally so would rather you didn't have to join the bunch of trolls and contrarians on my ignore list (although, don't think that really matters to anyone but myself! )
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Post by: Lord Scythican
Alex C wrote:Here's a mugshot I recently had done, I wonder if they could make somethng like it for me?
I thought that was hilarious!
83501
Post by: Nostromodamus
Apologies to Prodos, I am being a bit unfair.
Serious question for Prodos though, are you still planning on resin miniatures for the core set, or will they be plastic like the retail versions you've been showing off?
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Post by: Prodos
Alex C wrote:Apologies to Prodos, I am being a bit unfair.
Serious question for Prodos though, are you still planning on resin miniatures for the core set, or will they be plastic like the retail versions you've been showing off?
Yes for the KS pledgers Resin
72224
Post by: Joyboozer
And still soon?
69513
Post by: Prodos
Once we have the approval on the rules...its gogogogo!
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Post by: CURNOW
For everything or just the box game ????
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Post by: biggusdoggus
News tonight ..... (buried in the depths of a thread on Facebook - apparently there will be an official update on Monday/Tuesday)
Jarek Ever the team did fantastic work on proofing the rules and our graphic team managed to do all layout corrections as per the license owners request. The written (FINAL) content will be uploaded on Monday following "please review asap" email. We want this game to be available at the Salute 2015, and if we get the green light within 2 weeks time, it will happen (with pick up available at the Salute for backers, if we wont post it before 25th of April 2015).
1 hr · Edited · Unlike · 10
10972
Post by: Ruglud
Posted earlier on Facebook Jarek Ever:
the team did fantastic work on proofing the rules and our graphic team managed to do all layout corrections as per the license owners request. The written (FINAL) content will be uploaded on Monday following "please review asap" email. We want this game to be available at the Salute 2015, and if we get the green light within 2 weeks time, it will happen (with pick up available at the Salute for backers, if we wont post it before 25th of April 2015).
Ninja'd by biggusdoggus on this one... Jarek Ever:
bear in mind as we are shipping it from Poland to hub in the USA then to backers, some delay comparing to EU backers must be taken in to consideration. However it won't go via slow boat to the USA but flight so we are talking here about weeks not months.
Jarek Ever:
it's a license products, and once we have green light, the license owner may expect a cash flow for this product to come as well, like immediately. The option we are considering is :IF we ship to a shop (retail) in the X town and IF any backers are from the X town we can ship for collection at shop (optional), this will kill any "retail got it 1st" problem and make all three parties (us, FOX, backers) happy, plus in the same time we will keep posting the backers copies (if they live like in the jungle or at the end of the world) . But its not confirmed as yet, our plan/intent is to service 1st backers then retail and we will discus with higher power to buy into this idea. so please don't panic or throw any excrements at us. As for an official KS update, it will come Monday/Tuesday.
Jarek Ever: no worries, after all this time of that madness we are poo resistant internet hate us but I assume we will regain the love once we have the game out!
Jarek Ever:
at least we will have it after 1.5y in development, I still waiting for my KS to arrive like 2,5y (KD), so I know that pain.
Backer question: If Salute does come off, can I ask a friend to pick up for me? Jarek Ever:
yes
Jarek Ever:
PDF is for Wargaming it will come later, the Board game Rules we will make available to public for free (like we do with Warzone Rules) as a try before purchase Prodos' Scheme.
83501
Post by: Nostromodamus
So no wargame rules in wave 1 then? Hardcover book wave 2?
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Post by: biggusdoggus
Alex C wrote:So no wargame rules in wave 1 then? Hardcover book wave 2?
Correct. Wave 1 is the Boxed game only. No add-ons, no wargames rules (either in hardback or PDF), just the boxed set. Not sure whether they will ship the KS exclusive berserker and the bonus minis such as the facehuggers - probably not since they may have to wait for retail packaging, which is one of the outstanding wave 2 tasks.
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Post by: Joyboozer
Wow, so wonderful you're poo resistant Prodos, it slides off you and on to your backers.
Your attitude toward your backers is disgusting. We backed this project on your promises, to break all of them ( your fault or not) and then to act like criticism is unjustified for doing so is outrageous.
License owner may expect a cash flow, not that you're desperate for one?
You are a fething disgrace. Show some fething humility.
83501
Post by: Nostromodamus
Joyboozer wrote:Wow, so wonderful you're poo resistant Prodos, it slides off you and on to your backers.
Your attitude toward your backers is disgusting. We backed this project on your promises, to break all of them ( your fault or not) and then to act like criticism is unjustified for doing so is outrageous.
License owner may expect a cash flow, not that you're desperate for one?
You are a fething disgrace. Show some fething humility.
They should just not let Jarek post stuff online.
It never works out.
72224
Post by: Joyboozer
Or make decisions, does he honestly believe the bs of selling it at retail first, at which time you can pick it up, saving them postage is great news for backers?
No mention of how long after retail they'll post out backers rewards, no mention of wave 2, or why there is still a wave 2 after all the delays.
Goes back to the bs of updates showing plastic sprues, retail first was always the plan.
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Post by: angelofvengeance
Tin foil hat much? lol.
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Post by: Pacific
Alex C - Yes think the plan has always been to release the wargame later on after the board game release.
biggusdoggus wrote:News tonight ..... (buried in the depths of a thread on Facebook - apparently there will be an official update on Monday/Tuesday)
Jarek Ever the team did fantastic work on proofing the rules and our graphic team managed to do all layout corrections as per the license owners request. The written (FINAL) content will be uploaded on Monday following "please review asap" email. We want this game to be available at the Salute 2015, and if we get the green light within 2 weeks time, it will happen (with pick up available at the Salute for backers, if we wont post it before 25th of April 2015).
1 hr · Edited · Unlike · 10
Massively selfish on my part, but that is brilliant news for me. If it's possible to pick up from Salute that will be outstanding.
72224
Post by: Joyboozer
My tin foil hat got splattered with poo and I had to throw it away, or wash it or something. Now the best I can manage is an imaginary tin foil hat. Damn you Prodos!
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Post by: warboss
You can't catch a break. Between Palladium's sunshine farts telling you that Robotech isn't available in your area before you get your pledge (despite looking at it on shelves) to Prodos allowing you to drive to a store they determine is local (50 miles?) to save them shipping or make you wait additional weeks/months, you can't catch a break.
Sorry Prodos but shipping to stores first and "allowing" pledgers to go pick it up themselves or waiting who know how long as punishment if they don't doesn't "kill" the retail got it first problem. If you want to inconvienence the folks who believed in you and the project the most, ship to them last after you ship to the normal distibution channels who paid a year after them . Pledgers can't stop you from doing so but don't pretend that you're making them happy by putting them in the back of the line despite getting in line first. You can pass the blame (whether through hints or flat out say it) to Fox and other parties for the delays but shipping to regular channels at the expense of backers is 100% you choice and fault if you do so.
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Post by: HudsonD
I've only skimmed the latest posts, so I'm not sure what's going on.
From what I'm reading, the greenlight is imminent, possibly monday/tuesday, and once that happens, the packing/shipping starts, right ?
As long as the resin, KS-only versions get sent first, what's the issue ?
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Post by: CURNOW
Nope the emails going out to backers that give the info as above may go out then. They still need approval from fox on the rules and that could take weeks .then they need to go into production and be received by prodos and then the packing can begin which could take anything from a couple weeks up to a couple months . But as they are cash short it looks like they may not be sending out pledges but drop shipping them to "local" retailers at the same time as the retail versions. Can see why people would be unhappy with this especially if they just went in for the box game .as they could of just kept their cash for 18mths and purchased it for the same amount or cheaper from a retailer.
5478
Post by: Panic
yeah,
I'm getting bored of this... messaged them on their wall.
Feel free to like / comment on it.
https://www.facebook.com/prodosgamesltd/posts/440449206119740
So WTF is happening with AVP?
I'm hearing you will sell to retail first and you want people to collect from conventions and stores now...?
I paid you guys £238 with the expectation that you would look after me.
During the KS you indicated the project was almost complete.
10 months late and counting. and being told I will have to collect or receive it after retail?? Your attitude that none of this is avoidable leaves me cold... I'm losing faith in you guys so hard right now.
The game and models look great but it's not worth putting up with you.
Enough BS.
How long till the games ready?
How long for Wave 1?
How long for Wave 2?
Panic...
57447
Post by: Rick_1138
Hang on, so they are going to ship retail boxes forts (fine, they need cash, fair enough) but how will 'MY' resin KS boxed game set be differentiated, and not sold to some urchin with staff not realising that some boxes are KS resin figures, not plastic.
More to the point, if they are shipping stuff to a 'local' pick up point, being in Aberdeen and knowing that many couriers are now claiing anything north of Dundee is 'The highlands' and stuff not nortmally getting here quickly, what if its deemed Dundee is 'local' to me, as its 'not far from aberdeen'...Its a 120mile round trip.
I don't like that the KS backers is starting to mix in with the retail stuff, leads into all sorts of screw up territory and for things to get complicated quickly.
Also the rulebook not being in the initial release is a bit crap, we pledged for the AvP game, not the AvP 'board game...wargame is later.....
I have been pretty easy ozy about this KS, a 'it will arrive when it arrives' but if we then have to start going to hubs to collect stuff, what if an Aberdeen store wont stock AvP game so nearest big shopping centre with model shops is Dundee for me, that isn't a GW.
I have a pretty strong feeling I MAY get the boxed game (resin figure edition is debatable' but any pretence about getting my stretch goal and paid for resin extras I think I may just have to write off....Ace, I could have used that £120 a lot better by now.....
83501
Post by: Nostromodamus
Now now, guys, let's not be grumpy old men, we're all supposed to be thanking Prodos that it's only 10 months late and will be available at retail sooner than backer fulfillment, didn't you know?
Poor fanbois might get upset if you're too harsh, not to mention Prodos, poor guys stuck under Fox's giant boot! They can't be held responsible for all the lies, hostile attitudes and broken promises! It's that evil corporation I tells ya! (No, not Weyland Yutani)
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Post by: Rick_1138
I am not being a grumpy old man (Well maybe a wee bit), but I have a genuine concern that I am going to have a £50 fuel bill on top of this just to get something I paid to have posted to my house.
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Post by: CptJake
 Rick_1138 wrote:Hang on, so they are going to ship retail boxes forts (fine, they need cash, fair enough) but how will 'MY' resin KS boxed game set be differentiated, and not sold to some urchin with staff not realising that some boxes are KS resin figures, not plastic.
Remember, before the KS project page went away, Prodos mentioned they were making up 5000 box game sets with the resin figures, so the initial 'retail' version is the same as the Bespoke Kick Starter Version.
83501
Post by: Nostromodamus
 CptJake wrote: Rick_1138 wrote:Hang on, so they are going to ship retail boxes forts (fine, they need cash, fair enough) but how will 'MY' resin KS boxed game set be differentiated, and not sold to some urchin with staff not realising that some boxes are KS resin figures, not plastic.
Remember, before the KS project page went away, Prodos mentioned they were making up 5000 box game sets with the resin figures, so the initial 'retail' version is the same as the Bespoke Kick Starter Version.
Yep, they didn't sell enough during the KS so some retail copies will be the same as the " KS exclusive" copies.
But y'know, that's Fox's fault, so they couldn't help breaking that promise and violating the exclusivity.
Not that I care much as long as I get my stuff, but it was a big deal with some backers.
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Post by: Panic
yeah,
Not me but... It's an issue for people who backed for extra sets to sell before release and offset their outlay.
Exclusive contents would have helped increase their return.
Panic...
4402
Post by: CptJake
It bothered me in that it was yet another broken promise/breach of integrity. I fething HATE being lied to.
57447
Post by: Rick_1138
It bothers me in that I 'may' get the resin set, as its mixed in with the plastic stuff, as you can bet that the KS exclusive sets will be marked in any way differently to the standard packaging, as we know, even the slightest change in packaging printing means a review by Fox.
I don't mind waiting, but I do mind not getting what I expect and indeed paid for....I mean I could have had TWO wraithknights for my outlay.....no wait.....
29190
Post by: CURNOW
I only went in for £200 worth of marines :(
31456
Post by: Bolognesus
Wait, do we actually know backers risk getting plastic? All I saw was we risk getting our resin slightly after retail buyers. Still gakky, but not the WTF it now sounds like...
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Post by: CptJake
I'm genuinely curious as to why Prodos, who clearly has a person who reads these threads and posts new topics when they have something to sell, does not spend 5 minutes posting a nice reply to explain what is actually happening.
Probably is Fox's fault.
83501
Post by: Nostromodamus
If for some reason you end up getting plastic, just contact them for replacement.
I doubt you will though.
80154
Post by: biggusdoggus
I'm as pessimistic about all this as the next man, but where in God's name did this rumour about us maybe getting plastic come from? Sheesh guys, I know we've done chucked a lot of conspiracy theories around in here, but that's just blatantly making gak up.
At no point have Prodos ever said anything other than backers WILL be getting the prodos resins in their box sets. In fact there's over supply of those sets, so chances are they may be available early on in retail (although I do recall Prodos say they might give them away to charities or gaming clubs way back when the numbers issue first arose). The figures are sat in boxes in their warehouse, ready to go - we've seen the evidence.
Also there's no big issue with the plastic retail product being released at the same time as the KS exclusive product. Who cares? if we hadn't backed the product wouldn't exist (yeah - I know it doesn't yet - soon™)
I don't much care if somebody can by the plastic version in stores before mine arrives at my house. I hope any crossover in availability doesn't take months to resolve and that shipping to backers is expedited. Those retail purchasers won't be getting the KS exclusives or (likely) resins, so there's just no point in getting butt hurt about it, we'll still be better off.
In any event, I'm pretty sure it was never stated in the original project plan that KS backers would have their stuff before the game went to retail. How on earth do you think Prodos (and Fox) will make any money from this project? It's surely not from us buying in |the KS, but from ongoing retail sales. Every month this thing isn't sitting on the shelves, kills them.
KS backers often seem to have very high expectations with regards to what they'll get from KS both in the quality (rightly so) but also the quantity of freebies. That's all well and good, but we don't have any right to deny the company (that we're supposedly helping with funding) the ability to sell the product as well so they can stay afloat.
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Post by: Rick_1138
To clarify, I did not say Prodos were going to ship out stuff randomly.
What worries me is the bit about picking stuff up from a local store say.
The issue would be at the point of pick up, the staff at the store may not know which sets are which etc, its adding in another layer of the foul up principal to happen, the more steps you put in something, the more chance to go wrong.
TBH I am more just unhappy at stuff not being posted direct if that the case.
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Post by: CptJake
1st, Yes, backers were told they would have their stuff before the retail version was released. Of course they were also told other things that Prodos has gone back on.
http://web.archive.org/web/20140620165949/https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/513277403/alien-vs-predator-the-miniatures-game
You'll note in the first section of text that the retail version was supposed to be late 2014, and us backers (according to the expected delivery dates) were supposed to get ours in May of 2014. So to say Prodos never said backers would get theirs before retail is fething asinine. The retail version wasn't supposed to come out for months after the backer version.
2nd, the worry is that since Prodos has deemed it appropriate to ship stores retail copies AND to send backer copies to those stores fro pick up (before other backers get theirs sent out) some stores may inadvertently sell backer copies (assumedly with resin) and give actual backer's copies meant for retail (which some fear will have plastic).
I suspect these initial retail versions will have the exact same resin content as the backer copies (Prodos admitted they were going to do that at one point).
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Prodos says right in the relevant post that store pickup is optional, IF they do it that way. If you're concerned about possible mixups, don't arrange for store pickup.
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Post by: biggusdoggus
I see where you're coming from.
Hopefully, and let's be fair, all Prodos have said so far is that they are investigating the possibility of doing this, but hopefully shipping to your local LGS rather than direct, will be optional. Certainly I'd agree that backers should not be forced to visit their LGS to collect given that we've all paid for postage which included the "last mile".
However, I do see a potential benefit. If you work and are likely to be out when the couriers deliver, it would make perfect sense to collect from an LGS - let's face it, an LGS who (probably) stocks Prodos items is far more likely to look after your stuff than a courier who's just box shifting, who might dump it outside your door for anyone to grab, lob it over your fence (or if you're unlucky, your neighbour's fence) or at best probably return it to his base so you can collect from there anyway. So long as we have a choice whether or not to take this option, I see it as a benefit, and if by doing that, it's beneficial to Prodos, then who are we to complain?
I don't think there would be a reason for LGSs to confuse your stuff with the retail stuff they also take deliver of. I'd hope that Prodos will have labelled your pledge accordingly. The LGS is acting just like a local delivery drop off point (just as companies like Hermes now deliver to your local Co-Op or whatever).
It may turn out that it's not a workable option anyway. I';d guess it only really benefits anybody if they can do these LGS shipments with large enough numbers to significantly reduce shipping costs and time. That might be the case in the larger cities, but elsewhere, probably not such a benefit. I guess time will tell, but I can certainly understand why Prodos might be wanting to investigate the option.
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Post by: CptJake
I actually see it as a poor option because it there may be another confusion point. If Prodos is going to try to ship and have product get to stores via the stores' typical distribution then the distributor potentially screws up which store gets which copies.
Skipping the distributors may cause issues when they eventually want the distributors to handle the game/expansions. Skipping them also seems to force Prodos to incur a labor burden in finding/seeking out local stores that want to carry the game, and in some cases match those stores up with backers who want the game shipped to the store.
Honestly I am surprised Prodos would consider this course of action at all.
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Post by: biggusdoggus
I do agree in that I think the idea is fraught with complication, and complication usually introduces more opportunity for error.
I also think it's a little late in the day for Prodos to be considering it. They would need to gather "local store" data for every backer who might want to use such an option, and contact each of those stores to ask them if they would help. To be honest, if I ran a LGS I'd think twice purely because if things went wrong, I'd then be in part responsible, and it's not a risk I'd want to handle I don't think.
I don't think it's a bad idea, but I do think it's probably an idea that won't survive close scrutiny, particularly this late in the process.
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Post by: CptJake
I would bet it is a face saving measure. They are probably obligated to get it to retail channels by a certain date and are throwing this option as a bone to the backers.
"We gave you the option of picking it up at your local store, you declined so it is your fault you have to wait."
Which could eventually turn into
"I know you are all waiting on your wave 2 shipments, but we have committed to keeping the retail channels full and have to get them new product first. If we can't keep the stores stocked we risk losing the franchise."
I'll point out "All is Quiet On The Martian Front" as an example of backers initially being told they would get their stuff first, and now retail outlets are selling items backers are still waiting for, and new items are being produced and put into the retail chain while, again, backers are still waiting for stuff they paid for.
Prodos is taking actions that make me think this is likely to happen here. Yes, that is speculation on my part, I freely admit it, but the indicators are showing.
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Post by: biggusdoggus
CptJake wrote:
"I know you are all waiting on your wave 2 shipments, but we have committed to keeping the retail channels full and have to get them new product first. If we can't keep the stores stocked we risk losing the franchise."
If it were to come to that, even the fan boys would turn against them.
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Post by: warboss
CptJake wrote:
I'll point out "All is Quiet On The Martian Front" as an example of backers initially being told they would get their stuff first, and now retail outlets are selling items backers are still waiting for, and new items are being produced and put into the retail chain while, again, backers are still waiting for stuff they paid for.
Prodos is taking actions that make me think this is likely to happen here. Yes, that is speculation on my part, I freely admit it, but the indicators are showing.
I wasn't aware of that but admittedly I haven't been following AQOTMF much since it closed. I've seen folks playing fully painted versions for months and my friend's brother got his stuff last summer IIRC. Is that only a partial wave that is delayed?
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Post by: CptJake
 warboss wrote: CptJake wrote:
I'll point out "All is Quiet On The Martian Front" as an example of backers initially being told they would get their stuff first, and now retail outlets are selling items backers are still waiting for, and new items are being produced and put into the retail chain while, again, backers are still waiting for stuff they paid for.
Prodos is taking actions that make me think this is likely to happen here. Yes, that is speculation on my part, I freely admit it, but the indicators are showing.
I wasn't aware of that but admittedly I haven't been following AQOTMF much since it closed. I've seen folks playing fully painted versions for months and my friend's brother got his stuff last summer IIRC. Is that only a partial wave that is delayed?
There are still folks who have not gotten Wave 2 (which started shipping Oct 17th, much later than it was supposed to: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1117201778/all-quiet-on-the-martian-front-miniature-tanks-vs/posts/1020946 ) and most of the bigger stuff will be in Wave 3 (if/when it ships) though you can already order some of it via retail. And some folks did not get stuff in Wave 1 which was supposed to be included because they ran out, BUT they sold those items via retail way before they shipped them in Wave 2 (if you were lucky enough to get Wave 2).
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Post by: warboss
Yeah, those are some douche moves then akin to what Palladium and Battlefront have been pulling recently. I hope Prodos doesn't decide to follow in their footsteps.
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Post by: CURNOW
Still no news on if its gona be waves or not . Im just gona go put on my colonial marine armour and grab my pulse rifle and watch aliens :(
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Post by: angelofvengeance
New update (if you can call it that):
Prodos Games Ltd
Mar 17, 2015
Hello All.
A short update...
We have resubmitted the rules doc for approval, after changing (as requested) the US English to UK English. We have also proofed in-house, picking up a few grammatical issues where they had previously been missed; then finally we have sent to a professional proofing company.
We are expecting the approval back reasonably quickly, to the extent that we are working to officially launch the product to the wider public at Salute 2015. We expect to get the first batch of KS product out at the same time!
As always we thank you for your ongoing support and patience as we complete the final mile of this project. We know it’s been an unexpectedly long journey and we thank you all for enabling this dream to become a reality. The light at the end of the tunnel is bright and getting bigger by the day.
We will update again as soon as we have the approval...
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Post by: Pacific
That's actually probably the biggest update they have released in some time..
(So hopefully!)
- Available at Salute (woohoo!)
- Goes out to KS backers at the same time.
That will actually probably save me a fair bit of money at Salute if I'm walking around with that boxset under my arm..
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Post by: CptJake
 CURNOW wrote:Still no news on if its gona be waves or not . Im just gona go put on my colonial marine armour and grab my pulse rifle and watch aliens :(
What news are you expecting? They already very clearly stated it would be sent in at least two waves, with the first wave consisting of the boxed board game.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Prodos Games Ltd
Mar 17, 2015
Hello All.
A short update...
We have resubmitted the rules doc for approval, after changing (as requested) the US English to UK English. We have also proofed in-house, picking up a few grammatical issues where they had previously been missed; then finally we have sent to a professional proofing company.
We are expecting the approval back reasonably quickly, to the extent that we are working to officially launch the product to the wider public at Salute 2015. We expect to get the first batch of KS product out at the same time!
As always we thank you for your ongoing support and patience as we complete the final mile of this project. We know it’s been an unexpectedly long journey and we thank you all for enabling this dream to become a reality. The light at the end of the tunnel is bright and getting bigger by the day.
We will update again as soon as we have the approval...
It's a TRAIN!
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Post by: PomWallaby
If I read that update right, "soon" has been somewhat quantified.
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Post by: angelofvengeance
@JohnHwang: +1 sir!
Awesome haha
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Post by: hypnocat
Pacific wrote:That's actually probably the biggest update they have released in some time..
Agreed, but that is hardly difficult....!
Before everyone gets too excited though(!) remember that Fox still ave to give final approval (and we all know how long THAT can take) and then it still has to be test printed, the test prints examined, then final print run. We could still be looking at May delivery. Not being pessimistic or negative, just pointing out where we ACTUALLY are. Automatically Appended Next Post:  JohnHwangDD wrote:
Prodos Games Ltd
Mar 17, 2015
Hello All.
A short update...
We have resubmitted the rules doc for approval, after changing (as requested) the US English to UK English. We have also proofed in-house, picking up a few grammatical issues where they had previously been missed; then finally we have sent to a professional proofing company.
We are expecting the approval back reasonably quickly, to the extent that we are working to officially launch the product to the wider public at Salute 2015. We expect to get the first batch of KS product out at the same time!
As always we thank you for your ongoing support and patience as we complete the final mile of this project. We know it’s been an unexpectedly long journey and we thank you all for enabling this dream to become a reality. The light at the end of the tunnel is bright and getting bigger by the day.
We will update again as soon as we have the approval...
It's a TRAIN!
Choo choo, motherf***ers...! 
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Post by: CURNOW
Yeah but whats in each wave ?
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Post by: CptJake
Wave 1: Boxed board game
Wave >1: TBD
Assumedly the rest will ship in Wave 2, but Prodos has not really let us know beyond Wave 1 at this point.
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Post by: Ruglud
Jarek Ever:
and to answer the question before it came: yes if we have the game before Salute we will start shipping to backers, if we have the game At salute pick up will be available.
Jarek Ever:
we needed to send POS materials for approval as well, once we have a green light on them we will go crazy with them online! well, we are making the game but it's not our product, if you know what I mean by that. Everything needs approval.
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Post by: Visceral_Mass
Jarek Ever:
we needed to send POS materials for approval as well, once we have a green light on them we will go crazy with them online! well, we are making the game but it's not our product, if you know what I mean by that. Everything needs approval.
It doesn't seem like a wise move to be making comments like this. This makes me think that they had no idea what they were getting into when it comes to licensed games. It also makes me think the relationship with Fox and Prodos may be strained to the point that this game may not see any additional products beyond what was "promised" in the kickstarter.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
I don't think it's a wise move to let Jarek make comments at all.
I also think it's already pretty clear they had no idea what they were getting themselves into and I really doubt we'll see future products in this line.
I hope I'm wrong though.
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Post by: Pacific
I think it all comes down to the $. Undoubtedly it's a massive license*, and I still think it has the potential to get massive sales, but I guess how many will determine whether they continue with new releases.
You're right though, that chap shouldn't be allowed near the comments box (although, personally I find his posts pretty amusing/entertaining because of this)
* Is 'Aliens' and 'Predator' still viewed as a cool thing by kids these days? I've realised that I'm getting to the age where it might not be, and I consider that my dad probably felt the same way about steam engines and Humphrey Bogart in Casablanca at one point!
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Post by: CptJake
Pacific wrote:I think it all comes down to the $. Undoubtedly it's a massive license*, and I still think it has the potential to get massive sales, but I guess how many will determine whether they continue with new releases.
Unfortunately for the future of this, board games are a MUCH bigger seller/bigger market than miniatures based table top gaming, and they don't seem well postured to expand the board game. Resin multi-part figures will not go over well with the board game market. Even hard plastic figures with as many pieces as they are showing for the Predators are going to limit that market.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
Hey, gents, I'm not current on this as I was not a KS backer. Did I see a HIPS Predator sprue a few pages back? Any more HIPS coming for this license?
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
 Visceral_Mass wrote:This makes me think that they had no idea what they were getting into when it comes to licensed games.
If you are only now getting this feeling, I think you are behind the curve. I got that feeling when the KS page went down months ago.
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Post by: CptJake
 lord_blackfang wrote:Hey, gents, I'm not current on this as I was not a KS backer. Did I see a HIPS Predator sprue a few pages back? Any more HIPS coming for this license?
The retail version should have plastic Predators, Marines, and Aliens.
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Post by: Ruglud
Interview – Rob Alderman
I had the chance to do a written interview with Rob Alderman, Head of Sales at Prodos LTD.
Prodos Games LTD is currently working on Alien vs Predator: The Hunt Begins. The game will be released worldwide in 2015.
We started the interview back in december 2014 and completed it in march 2015.
If you are looking for the Alien vs Predator: The Hunt Begins FAQ, you can find it here.
Peer: Hi Rob, thank you for taking the time for this interview. Please tell us something about yourself first.
Rob: Hi! I’m the Head of Sales at Prodos Games LTD, but I have basically been with the company ever since the first Alpha Testing of Warzone Resurrection in the UK. It was a very different game at that point! I’ve been painting miniatures since I was 6 or 7, after accidentally going into a shop in Maidstone with my parents and being showed a certain game set in the 41st millennium by an over-enthusiastic red-shirted man. One day, I would love to shake the hand of said red-shirted man and thank him. Suffice to say, I won a game, was given a small metal miniature and also a catalogue of figures which I looked at for several hours that evening. I’m 24 now and have been a ‘professional’ wargamer since I was 15; sculpting miniatures, writing rules, writing stories, playtesting games and running demos… I like to think I know my industry, but every so often I get new and exciting things thrown at me from nowhere! It’s an awesome ride!
Peer: It is December and 2014 is nearly history. The successful funding of Alien Vs Predator The Miniature Game, a lot of work, a lot of travelling, the deletion of the Kickstarter page and impatient backers are lying behind you. How do you feel at the moment?
Rob: I’m not sure words can express quite how I feel! I’m a pretty down to earth person, so if I get down, I get really, really down. Let’s just say I have an amazingly supportive fiancee and there are select fans out there that quite literally save the day. I think the most positive thing is my hope for 2015. We’ve had some amazing milestones in 2014 and 2015 promises some more amazing ones. I’ve been working out my calendar and it is all looking pretty fantastic!
Peer: What significance has the Alien franchise in your personal life?
Rob: The Alien franchise, for me, is the quintessential Science Fiction. It is dark, mysterious and has had a lot of things developed around it. The first Alien film is a horror, it is tense and keeps you on edge. Even now, 35 years later, it terrifies people. It’s one of those films, among many, that I watched when I was younger than I should have been, but I do not regret it as it really shaped things for me. Giger’s work is fantastic, and a lot of it appears (albeit significantly changed here and there) throughout the franchise. It’s dark and unremitting, exaggerating how little we actually understand of the world around us. Now, being able to present that in miniature is truly awesome.
Peer: Your favorite alien movie?
Rob: My favourite Alien movie? It’s hard as I studied film as a part of my further education (pre-University, if you like), so I therefore read a lot into how things are filmed, how characters are developed, how shots are lined up to achieve a specific reaction or effect in the viewer. Alien is a very, very clever film. However, if I was going to put on a film to watch over and over, I think it has to be Aliens. The characters are made to be endearing, the pace is fast and action-packed.
Peer: I am sure you heard that Neill Blomkamp is doing a new Alien movie. What is your opinion on that?
Rob: We’re super excited for it! Anything that extends the potential for both the Alien and Predator licenses really gets us excited. Ultimately, we’re all fans of the setting, after all!
Peer: So, what is included in the license you obtained from Fox? What are you allowed to use in your game?
Rod: Anything from the solely Alien vs Predator Films, comics, books or computer games as well as non-named characters and creatures from the Alien, Aliens, Alien 3, Alien Resurrection, Predator, Predator 2 and Predators film. We are currently unsure whether this includes any other future projects. This means we cannot, for example, use Terminators from the ‘Alien vs Predator vs Terminator’ comics, or Judge Dredd in ‘Judge Dredd Incubus’, but if there was a new breed of alien or predator, not linked to the other license, then we could use that potentially too. Of course, it all relies on approval, which is normally Fox deciding if they think it is suitable for the license.
Peer: Has it been your first Kickstarter or have you been involved with the Warzone Kickstarter as well?
Rob: I was involved with the Warzone Resurrection Kickstarter. I wasn’t employed by Prodos Games at that time, but the owners were good friends of mine. They threw ideas at me and I threw ideas at them too. It was very exciting as I was an ‘insider customer’, so I actually pledged quite high on the Warzone Resurrection Kickstarter! I’ve got limitless faith for the product line and setting. It’s totally awesome and the figures are fantastic.
Peer: How long has it taken you from the first talk with Fox to the start of your Kickstarter?
Rob: I’m not sure you know. It was actually Mark that initiated the conversation with 20th Century Fox. I think it was 3 months, I recall it being very quick and I was taken aback by how fast we turned that around into a Kickstarter. We had the first Infant Alien printed in China and that was knocking around our office for a few weeks. It was a very exciting time, but that print was awful! Not sure where it’s ended up now, but we’ve moved on from even then and the stuff we’re printing using our own 3d printing service (which we offer to other companies in the industry) is absolutely unbelievable.
Peer: In comparison to board and card games miniature games are able to collect a lot more money on Kickstarter. While (most) board and card games can be played out of the box miniature games often need to be assembled and painted first. What is so fascinating about miniature games?
Rob: Miniature Games are tangible, they have a feel and they are nice to look at. Playing cards is nice, and artwork can be great, the feel of the game can be great, but there is certainly an itch scratched by miniature gaming that any other kind of gaming cannot achieve. That’s not to say that Miniature gaming is superior to any other kind, but each type of gaming has its own advantages.
Peer: People often say the golden age of crowdfunding already lies behind us. Established companies are using crowdfunding plattforms as pre-order system, smaller companies and projects hardly get funded and backers are more demanding. Do you agree with this opinion?
Rob: Sort of, yes. I think there are certain companies that rely on it, that’s fine. There are also smaller companies setting them up for smaller projects, that’s great. For us, it’s been a great help in a few ways, most importantly, getting the projects actually funded to be made (not just a pre-order) and also as a platform for advertising. In a way, it’s great that we did not make millions, as that would have taken away from our post-Kickstarter sales, which for Warzone has been amazing and the interest in AvP is simply stunning. I doubt we will run many more Kickstarters, if any. We would prefer to just go ahead with more great products once they are ready, and avoid the ‘ WIP’ shots, in progress stuff and nasty delays being widely shown in the public view. It doesn’t help us, nor the companies we have partnered with.
Peer: How active are you on Kickstarter? Do you back many projects?
Rob: Me, personally? I love it! I go after quite a few little ones, get to know people, socialise and offer them help where we can. We actually provide a number of manufacturing services to a number of companies. It’s up to them to tell you that we do! I’ve backed to open a ‘Cat Cafe’ in Nottingham, to create the Arcworlde Miniatures Game, to get a number of models made by Bob Olley, all sorts!
Peer: As you mentioned before you turned AvP into a Kickstarter within 3 months and have used a lot of WIP shots. Do you think you could have achieved more if you would have taken more time before the Kickstarter launch?
Rob: Yes, we could have, but we did run the Kickstarter to raise the funding we needed to support the project’s growth. Without the Kickstarter, there would not have been an AvP at all. If anything, the estimation should have been much longer and has since been noted!
Peer: How has the project changed from the initial idea to what it is now and how much backer feedback went into it?
Rob: I’m not sure, we always knew what we wanted to achieve. We do listen to customers though and take their ideas on board. Having so many megafans on board has it’s advantages! Some of the suggestions that have been made are totally inspired. Some obvious, others less so. I obviously can’t give any examples!
Peer: What is your favorite AvP model?
Rod: Ohhhhhh, gotta be the Predator Hell Hounds! I love ‘em!
Peer: Let us talk about the future of AvP. People are already creating their own stories, scenarios and material for your game. Is there a chance that you might offer templates to support them?
Rob: The rules contain the option to make your own missions, so totally!
Peer: What about painting tips and maybe even AvP painting sets?
Rob: I’d love to. Unfortunately we were priced out of painting sets for now, but it’s certainly something we’ll look at in the future. Painting guides will pop up here there and everywhere, I am sure!
Peer: Are you going to support organized play?
Rob: That’s the plan! We do it a little for Warzone Resurrection, especially focusing on 2015. So let’s see.
Peer: It was mentioned that with the first expansion the Marine ship might crash land on a jungle planet. Are you still working on this or are you going to surprise us with something totally different?
Rob: Unfortunately we cannot talk about future projects. I can certainly say that we do have intentions to expand the game in several different ways, but you will have to wait to find out!
Peer: You cannot talk about expansions yet but can you tell us if the expansions will be made of the Kickstarter urethane plastic or the retail version plastic?
Rob: Depends on popularity really! There is a huge investment for injection moulded plastic and it is very time consuming to get it started. However, the material is affordable and you can really mass produce with it. Of course, the cost of setting it all up has to be spread across to make sure there is a profit! As for Urethane resin, individual moulds cost less, but they wear out after several dozen pulls, so must be remade. It’s more labour intensive and the setting time is longer, but for shorter production runs, it is much more suitable. We actually manufacture everything in Urethane resin at the moment, but the Procast technique has allowed us to really streamline it into a semimass production process and we have one of the largest resin casting facilities in the world.
Peer: Since you already announced that you are working on translations for your other game Warzone Resurrection, how likely is it that you will also translate AvP?
Rob: Very likely!
Peer: Might these translations see the light of day in 2015?
Rob: I’m not sure, it depends on the traction of the project. If it’s madly successful, then the investment will be easier for us and we will. If it’s a slow take-up, then it will be a slow progress.
Peer: The final words are yours!
Rob: Just remember, ‘on Kickstarter, everyone can hear you scream’…
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Post by: CptJake
Rob wrote:Just remember, ‘on Kickstarter, everyone can hear you scream’… Until you shut it down for good. Oh and you can also ban those pesky backers from your FaceBook page if they try to make noise there (after belittling them a bit first).
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Post by: angelofvengeance
Well- the FAQs don't really tell you much..
@CptJake: LOL! +1 sir!
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Post by: Nostromodamus
"On Kickstarter, everyone can hear you scream"
Until you take the page down via a fake IP dispute to stop people from screaming at you about your fethed up ethics and horrifically delayed project.
Edit - LOL ninja'd by Jake...
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Post by: Tengri
Earliest release...this May?
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Post by: angelofvengeance
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
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Post by: CptJake
Is there a new statement from them some where? Automatically Appended Next Post: On 14 March someone asked on their forums: I suspect I already know the answer, but is there anything you can tell us about the plastic USCMs and Aliens?
On 28 March Big Jim V replied: Not yet Strawhat, but we are getting closer to seeing them!
Seeing as how everything but the rules were allegedly approved I was hoping they would show these (even though they are the retail plastic) along with the final Young Bloods, and may be the clear predators, terrain, some of the cards/tokens from the game and so on. Seeing as all that is already approved and all...
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Post by: Bioptic
Well, Salute is on the 25th April, and they seem pretty confident that people can supposedly pick their copies up there. They might start getting death threats if people travel down to pick up their copy and it still isn't ready yet!
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Post by: biggusdoggus
They're never making Salute. No chance. They don't even have approval on the rulebook yet. When that does arrive (assuming they get approval this time and Fox doesn't spot something else they want changed), they'll need to do a test print at final production quality. Then they'll need to examine that test in minute detail for quality control, and run off enough copies to take back to Fox for final approval. They've already told us that Fox want (need) to see fully packaged product for final signoff, so they'll need to box up a number of (probably 5-10, maybe more) the box sets, both KS and retail, and seal them so that what Fox receive is exactly what we'll get. Then Fox can spend however long they need to approve that final complete product- probably at least another couple of weeks. Only then can they trigger a full print run, and then make up however many hundreds of boxes they might need for KS backers at Salute, plus however many they also need for retail there, and that's all happening in Poland.
So realistically at this point, Salute isn't happening. The logistics don't work.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Agree. April is not possible.
Assuming they received approval today, they would need to go through the proof process (soft proofs, then hard proofs) before going into production. Best case, they might finish their approvals by the end of April.
That still needs to print, and cut, and press, before assembling the boxes and shipping them to whereever they need to be.
To actually have finished product in hand takes more time than what they have.
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Post by: warboss
I suspect they'll move heaven and earth to get some early prototypes on sale at salute even if it is at the expense of shipping to all but a few token backers so they can claim to have started delivering to them "first". I call this move the palladium ruseTM.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Now, now, that's unfair. Palladium wanted to do that at Gencon, but ultimately was unable to swing the logistics. Prodos is in the same situation. The reality of production and logistics is going to prevent this from happening.
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Post by: warboss
JohnHwangDD wrote:Now, now, that's unfair. Palladium wanted to do that at Gencon, but ultimately was unable to swing the logistics. Prodos is in the same situation. The reality of production and logistics is going to prevent this from happening.
Palladium only failed at their eponymous move because karma stepped it and gave them a swift kick in the wallet (located ironically over their rear end); it's still their move and they did it successfully with their crowdfunded RPG books the year before (printing out some early release "prototype" copies to sell many months before any crowdfunding backers got theirs) . I expect Prodos to do the same as they seem to be borrowing some things from the Palladium playbook unfortunately.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Sorry to say that Prodos is lightyears ahead of Palladium in the "sleaziest Kickstarter" competition, simply by virtue of Prodos shuttering their KS on known false IP grounds.
We should be praying that Palladium doesn't pull a Prodos, because that affects all backers far more than a handful of items sold at a game con.
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Post by: warboss
JohnHwangDD wrote:Sorry to say that Prodos is lightyears ahead of Palladium in the "sleaziest Kickstarter" competition, simply by virtue of Prodos shuttering their KS on known false IP grounds. We should be praying that Palladium doesn't pull a Prodos, because that affects all backers far more than a handful of items sold at a game con.
Before you rejoined dakka, one of the palladium topics was their forum mod locking almost every robotech topic that wasn't happy sparkling sunshine and banning most everyone that asked what was going on with robotech last summer around gencon for months regardless of whether the posts actually broke the rules. While they didn't flatout close down the forums, they pretty much shut down any talk that strayed into the negative after they announced their gencon sleazebag move and follow up sham vote. In any case, it's not a contest, just a note of the similarities in tactics between the two which has likely run its course in this thread. I hope that Prodos don't inconvienence backers and make them wait while others who paid over a year later get their stuff first at the con.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
OK, fair enough.
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Post by: Pacific
JohnHwangDD wrote:Agree. April is not possible.
Assuming they received approval today, they would need to go through the proof process (soft proofs, then hard proofs) before going into production. Best case, they might finish their approvals by the end of April.
That still needs to print, and cut, and press, before assembling the boxes and shipping them to whereever they need to be.
To actually have finished product in hand takes more time than what they have.
Unless they are further along than they have let on of course.
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Post by: CptJake
Either way, they do know if they are going to meet the Salute dates or will not meet the Salute dates at this point. An update would be a good thing.
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Post by: biggusdoggus
Pacific wrote: JohnHwangDD wrote:Agree. April is not possible.
Assuming they received approval today, they would need to go through the proof process (soft proofs, then hard proofs) before going into production. Best case, they might finish their approvals by the end of April.
That still needs to print, and cut, and press, before assembling the boxes and shipping them to whereever they need to be.
To actually have finished product in hand takes more time than what they have.
Unless they are further along than they have let on of course.
On the 17th, Jarek wrote (referring to the rule book) We will update again as soon as we have the approval...
so if they are further along, then fool them for not saying so.
Jarek's statement was reiterated by Jim Vidlak yesterday. As soon as we have word, trust me you will know!
and while he insists they still have time to meet the Salute target, his statement does strongly suggest they haven't gotten rulebook approval yet, and then our previous musings on how long everything might take from now are probably correct.
CptJake wrote:Either way, they do know if they are going to meet the Salute dates or will not meet the Salute dates at this point. An update would be a good thing.
Ya know, I can't help thinking that they honestly don't know. I think it's possible they habitually underestimate the length of time the project will take. They see the approval process as taking days when it's invariably weeks, and while the delays aren't necessarily their fault, they have their heads in the sand with regards to the knock-on effects. Essentially they have failed to adjust their project timelines to take into account realistic approval times, and that then has a huge effect on their target dates. I'm beginning to wonder if they've actually bothered to write and maintain a proper project plan with something like MS Project (other better project management programs are available) or if they haven't just done the entire process on the back of a cigarette packet.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
biggusdoggus wrote: JohnHwangDD wrote:Agree. April is not possible.
Assuming they received approval today, they would need to go through the proof process (soft proofs, then hard proofs) before going into production. Best case, they might finish their approvals by the end of April.
That still needs to print, and cut, and press, before assembling the boxes and shipping them to whereever they need to be.
To actually have finished product in hand takes more time than what they have.
I'm beginning to wonder if they've actually bothered to write and maintain a proper project plan with something like MS Project (other better project management programs are available) or if they haven't just done the entire process on the back of a cigarette packet.
Based on what I can see, I feel pretty sure in saying that their Project Management consists of scribbles on a cocktail napkin, at most. The idea that this is following any sort of tools-based project process methodology, is completely out of the question. Even with overnight air shipping, there is no way they go from approval to packaged retail-grade product in 3 weeks, and everybody should already know that.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
At some point they will know if they can't (when production cannot technically be started before salute)
It's much harder to know if they will hit it until fox gives an unambiguous yes : we don't know how much stuff has/will been produced in hope that it is accepted,
and it's also possible that if they get a yes they may have time to get some stuff produced and packed for pickup (or horror or horrors prizes/sales) even if it's not the full KS
I'd say the odds were against it but it's not impossible yet
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Post by: Forlorn
biggusdoggus wrote:
Ya know, I can't help thinking that they honestly don't know. I think it's possible they habitually underestimate the length of time the project will take. They see the approval process as taking days when it's invariably weeks, and while the delays aren't necessarily their fault, they have their heads in the sand with regards to the knock-on effects. Essentially they have failed to adjust their project timelines to take into account realistic approval times, and that then has a huge effect on their target dates. I'm beginning to wonder if they've actually bothered to write and maintain a proper project plan with something like MS Project (other better project management programs are available) or if they haven't just done the entire process on the back of a cigarette packet.
I wish they had some semblance of a length of time this project will take.
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Post by: Ruglud
Jarek Ever
hi all, we should have some update for you on Friday as we have seen some movement on the FOX tracker. Thanks.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Hopefully Good Friday means good news?
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Post by: CptJake
I don't know, 'Good' seems kind of an ironic label for having your savior tortured and put to death. I bet we get 'good' news.
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Post by: Ruglud
Jarek Ever
well, update tonight on the KS, Rob promised to do it As for the rules, the team done fantastic work with proofing it. The problem is that every sentence must be check by the Fox, even the game rules , for IP reasons. With our other IP, the Mutant Chronicles, rule wise, that is not the case . So we have done all requested corrections and answered a lot of questions regarding the Fluff (for examples: source of Alien Warriors Acid Split attack, or source of the Yautja word ect.....), well, I totally understand this one, believe they may be worrying that we will add something new to the cannon that fans might not like it. So I am now confident that the March's 15 revision is the last one...
Jarek Ever
[Approval status] it sits on the tracker with 3 peoples, 2 of them reviewed and one more to go
Jarek Ever
and I was hoping to get something this week as it was the break point to get the game for the salute (well in fact its Wednesday next week). We have been in contact with Fox and we have been assured that the Prodos is on the top of the list. Other that waiting and keep sending annoying mails we can't do much more.
Rob Alderman
We are asking 3 or 4 times a day for more information.
The items outside of the main boxed set are still pending approval (packaging) because we do not want to stray their focus from the main boxed set. We got so far with the other packaging, but we are not submitting anything new until the main box is done.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Just posted on Facebook: Alien vs Predator The Miniatures Game 1 min · . This is rumor control, here are the facts. We are still striving the start shipping AvP by Salute, we are still waiting on that final approval. Two of three at Fox have signed it off and the third has made it clear that this is his top priority right now. So it might be just after Salute, if this happens we can only apologise for the further delay. We invite you to come by and check out our stand at Salute, we will have something special on display. We can't say too much, but it's very exciting indeed! We promise more news as we can share it and once again thank you all for your patience. Finally, we hope you are all having a great 4 day weekend, celebrating Easter! Thanks, The Prodos Games Team
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Post by: Joyboozer
You heard it here first, the AvP stand at Salute will have a big special sign that says " Soon!"
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Post by: Ruglud
So the Wednesday deadline has been and gone without an official update
Jarek Ever
and I was hoping to get something this week as it was the break point to get the game for the salute (well in fact its Wednesday next week). We have been in contact with Fox and we have been assured that the Prodos is on the top of the list. Other that waiting and keep sending annoying mails we can't do much more.
although, just seen this on the FB page...
Rob Alderman
I'll be discussing some points at beasts of war, which will be up on the weekender. I've not heard from Jarek, but we are still working our nuts off on it. One thing I cab say is that our point of sale and advertising material is currently being approved by the rest of the team.
FB comment
can you say weather or not any of the printed materials have been or are currently being produced? or will that be in a forth coming update?
Rob Alderman
We're printing all of the fully approved elements.
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Post by: CptJake
These guys are a joke.
I wish I had a way to cancel at this point. I canceled other KS orders and have sold off a ton of stuff due to an upcoming move to a smaller place, but as much as I rag on Prodos and their gak poor communications, really did want a good Aliens board game. I'm past wanting it at this point.
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Post by: cincydooley
CptJake wrote:These guys are a joke.
I wish I had a way to cancel at this point. I canceled other KS orders and have sold off a ton of stuff due to an upcoming move to a smaller place, but as much as I rag on Prodos and their gak poor communications, really did want a good Aliens board game. I'm past wanting it at this point.
I'm sorta feeling the same way......
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
If someone is going to Salute, I'd like to see pictures of their big reveal, please.
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
It will be a Fox executive tied to a chair.
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Post by: CptJake
No, it will be a table which appears to have a bunch of boxes stacked on it, but they (whatever they really are) will be covered by a black cloth with Fox and Prodos logos printed on it.
Prodos reps will then inform anyone interested enough to ask that 'There is some GREAT stuff, but they can't show us yet, but expect to be able to share SOON!'
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Post by: Dark Severance
 cincydooley wrote: CptJake wrote:These guys are a joke.
I wish I had a way to cancel at this point. I canceled other KS orders and have sold off a ton of stuff due to an upcoming move to a smaller place, but as much as I rag on Prodos and their gak poor communications, really did want a good Aliens board game. I'm past wanting it at this point.
I'm sorta feeling the same way......
Yeah pretty much feel the same way. I want an aliens board game but at this point I don't really want it anymore as I've moved on to other things. They stopped responding to my emails about a refund.
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Post by: DaveC
BoW Weekender has an interview with Rob from Prodos. AvP is covered from 31:22 - nothing new in it still waiting for 1 signature from FOX to approve the boxed game, everything bar the printed materials is done. They still hope to have it available for backers to pick up at Salute and have it on sale to public as well.
http://www.beastsofwar.com/the-weekender/weekender-hunting-prodos-avp-salute-2015-list/
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Post by: CptJake
I still hope they un-feth themselves and learn to communicate with us backers.
But as the saying goes, Hope is not a method.
note: Without that hyphen, the filter doesn't catch that word.
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Post by: Ruglud
Facebook:
Jarek Ever
Can we wait until Tuesday please, some key peoples are back to work Monday from their holidays at the FOX and we need to make few phone calls.
Jarek Ever
Robert I totally agree with you, however to our defend I would say that dates are based on what we have been told... it's really annoying to find out that the main person is on its holidays after being told to us that we are on the priority list. We have planned again, production with printing company and so on ... for us, this situation is also beyond a joke and my blood boiling was reached last week... good that in our team we have peoples with long fuse as well, otherwise I am not sure how this would end up (Mark I am looking at you). What I can add is to say sorry for this mess, waiting time and we will more after the weekend.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
I'm not familiar with how long printing takes, but even if it was approved today, having it ready for Salute seems... ambitious?
I'd certainly like to be a fly on the Prodos stand at Salute. Interesting conversations will be had, I'm sure.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
It usually takes more than 2 weeks to go from start of print to retail shrink, assuming that Prodos does any proofing.
If they just say "feth it", then low quality, unproofed print is possible.
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Post by: Stormonu
Wow, I really wanted to get into this KS, but refrained (some of the pics used for the KS made me nervous, after the Robotech train wreck).
I'm glad I didn't go in on this. Feel sorry for those who have been waiting for it to unfeth itself.
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Post by: biggusdoggus
JohnHwangDD wrote:It usually takes more than 2 weeks to go from start of print to retail shrink, assuming that Prodos does any proofing.
If they just say "feth it", then low quality, unproofed print is possible.
I'm really hoping 'The Fox Factor' prevents this. Hell, I'd be quite surprised if a number of full production quality proof prints didn't have to be returned to Fox at the start of the print run for further approval.
but there's that hope word again ...
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Post by: warboss
 Stormonu wrote:Wow, I really wanted to get into this KS, but refrained (some of the pics used for the KS made me nervous, after the Robotech train wreck).
I'm glad I didn't go in on this. Feel sorry for those who have been waiting for it to unfeth itself.
I'm largely in the same boat. I was really interested (my nid army is mostly clix aliens and I've got over a dozen preds as well) but for me what stopped me was the lack of value during most of the campaign. The value was there at the pledge level I was interested in ($150ish one) during the last few days but by that point my enthusiasm was sapped. I resigned myself to paying full retail for lonly the figs I want and even used this KS as an example of how to keep backers updated correctly; obviously that has changed significantly. It is though alot less concerning to watch this sputter from the sidelines unlike with robotech where I went in.
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Post by: Dr. Cheesesteak
qft
relax people and stop blaming Prodos. There's a lot of pointless red tape to this and it (allegedly) is hinging on just 1 Fox exec to sign off. Fox isn't even disputing anything, they (allegedly) love the product. But w/ big corporations, just getting 1 exec to sign something takes time. Hard to believe they're busy, I know...
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Post by: CptJake
 Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:
qft
relax people and stop blaming Prodos. There's a lot of pointless red tape to this and it (allegedly) is hinging on just 1 Fox exec to sign off. Fox isn't even disputing anything, they (allegedly) love the product. But w/ big corporations, just getting 1 exec to sign something takes time. Hard to believe they're busy, I know...
So, who IS to blame for the piss poor comms since the KS project funding ended and for shutting down the KS page (not to mention the less than honest statements Prodos made about it)?
Prodos deserves blame. They really do.
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Post by: Dr. Cheesesteak
CptJake wrote: Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:
qft
relax people and stop blaming Prodos. There's a lot of pointless red tape to this and it (allegedly) is hinging on just 1 Fox exec to sign off. Fox isn't even disputing anything, they (allegedly) love the product. But w/ big corporations, just getting 1 exec to sign something takes time. Hard to believe they're busy, I know...
So, who IS to blame for the piss poor comms since the KS project funding ended and for shutting down the KS page (not to mention the less than honest statements Prodos made about it)?
Prodos deserves blame. They really do.
I'm ASSUMING they aren't even allowed to give any updates besides generic "soon" or "we're working on it". Not sure if they've completely ignored KS backers or just aren't giving specific detailed updates, but isn't the video the update you want/need?
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
It totally was. Thanks to their confirmation that it's just one lousy fething fether at Fox who's fething everything the feth up, I feel much better that I'll see this at my local hobby store SOON! Whew. I'm so glad it's not Prodos' fault, and that everything is going as quickly as possible, with no feth-ups on their part. .
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Post by: CptJake
1st: A Beast Of War video is not Prodos communicating with their backers. So, no. It is not the update I want/need.
2nd: I could really care less about what they are allowed to say. That is no excuse to have mislead/lied to us backers. And they have. Several times.
3rd: They've already missed their self declared deadline to have gak in time for Salute. At this point, they need to get in front of that and update us with a realistic timeline. Something along the lines of 'Okay, once we have final approval, here are the steps we take and the projected time each takes.' If there is even the slimmest chance they can release at Salute, this type of timeline would show that.
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Post by: Visceral_Mass
They may only need one signature, but what happens if that one person says "no, its not right".
How much say does that one person have over the game?
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Post by: Dr. Cheesesteak
CptJake wrote:1st: A Beast Of War video is not Prodos communicating with their backers. So, no. It is not the update I want/need.
2nd: I could really care less about what they are allowed to say. That is no excuse to have mislead/lied to us backers. And they have. Several times.
3rd: They've already missed their self declared deadline to have gak in time for Salute. At this point, they need to get in front of that and update us with a realistic timeline. Something along the lines of 'Okay, once we have final approval, here are the steps we take and the projected time each takes.' If there is even the slimmest chance they can release at Salute, this type of timeline would show that.
Well, as I said, I'm not familiar w/ exactly how or how not Prodos has handled this to the actual KS backers. What I do know is that there's probably a lot of junk going on behind the scenes and rules/regulations we are unaware of for all parties involved - Fox, Prodos, and even KS. I always prefer to give companies, especially any gaming company not called Games Workshop, the benefit of the doubt of actually caring for their product/community. It's just things happen, out of their control sometimes, that prevent them from doing or showing that.
But it's all in the past. I'm just trying to decide what race I wanna play... 
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Post by: CptJake
Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:
Well, as I said, I'm not familiar w/ exactly how or how not Prodos has handled this to the actual KS backers. What I do know is that there's probably a lot of junk going on behind the scenes and rules/regulations we are unaware of for all parties involved - Fox, Prodos, and even KS. I always prefer to give companies, especially any gaming company not called Games Workshop, the benefit of the doubt of actually caring for their product/community. It's just things happen, out of their control sometimes, that prevent them from doing or showing that.
But it's all in the past. I'm just trying to decide what race I wanna play...
What I know is, a lot of the Prodos shenanigans are detailed in this very thread. Since you are ignorant about them, don't tell me to 'stop blaming Prodos' when you admit you don't know what they have or have not done.
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Post by: adlard.matthew
Rather think this is more Prodos going into this with Rose tinted Glasses and not realising Fox are serious anal over IP and are from what others have said control freaks.
As said before, a chat with some one revealed that they had serious problems and that Fox had a team being paid more than the project was worth just monitoring them and the project.
Personally think Prodos should have said from the start we are looking at delays as everything has to be cleared. That at least would have paved the way for excuses and facts rather than 'well' 'erm' 'maybe'... we have seen.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:I always prefer to give companies, especially any gaming company not called Games Workshop, the benefit of the doubt of actually caring for their product/community.
Oh, wait, you were serious above?
I thought you were being sarcastic.
Prodos is proven to be a bunch of lying fethers that make GW look like a bunch of saints. By far. Prodos takes corporate dishonesty to a whole new level. The only guys with worse ethics are the ones behind HQ25. feth those guys.
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Post by: warboss
I found the part in the BOW interview the Prodos guy said the whole kickstarter IP dispute debacle is "kickstarter's fault" very telling. Because, you know, Prodos reading KS's creator terms and knowing from their previous kickstarter that their updates are permanent and public posted stuff that Fox later objected to months after the fact and were strong arming them to take down is somehow KS's fault.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Well, yeah. None of this can be Prodos' fault.... 
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Post by: Dr. Cheesesteak
no man, I am never sarcastic. Do you have any idea how much red tape some megacorporations force on meaningless stuff? I swear to you, even a change in toilet paper they buy for their offices probably needs to be approved by 2 or 3 people.
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Post by: TheSecretSquig
Wrote this last year. It still stands.
 TheSecretSquig wrote:To PRODOS Games........
As a KS Backer (and quite a large one), please take all the time you need in the world to sort this out with Fox. Seriously! I'd rather wait another 12 months and recieve a top quality set of minatures based on the AVP world than something rushed out that F"%3's Fox off so much that they decide to pull the plug and we lose what potentially could be an amazing minature line that people will love.
Even if approved tomorrow, NOTHING would or could be posted out to all backers this close to Christmas for people to have some new toys to open. So next week, kick back, relax, and start winding down for Christmas. Seriously.
Yes I'm disapointed. But I still genuinely believe that I'll receive a top quality set of new toys based in a universe I've loved for 30 years. I'd rather wait and get something that's fully supported and endorsed by all the stakeholders, than potentially lose it. People need to stop being the 'Internet Tough Guy' and just kick back, and let PRODOS get on with what they need to do with Fox. If you are anything like me, you've a queue of other stuff waiting in boxes for some love and attention on your painting desks. I for one have blow the dust off a Perfect Grade RX-78 Gundam that's been gathering dust for over 10 years.
Christmas and New Year is approaching. Chill out, relax. We'll all get our things. Given people some breathing space to work through their problems rather than inflame them over a keyboard.
Seriously. I’d rather wait and receive a fully supported game by all parties than something be rushed out and then have the plug pulled because of an IP dispute. Aliens is my favourite background and universe and I really want this to happen. But it needs to be supported. And if that means waiting longer for FOX and PRODOS to sort themselves out, so be it. I have no doubt PRODOS will deliver (eventually). Yes, their communication is crap, but again I suspect their hands are tied by FOX. Rather than F%$*@@! FOX off, I’d rather they kept quiet to ensure the game is supported.
Kickstarters run late. Fact. Kingdom Death took over $1,000 of me, running at the latest estimate 2 years late before we’ll see anything. Poots the creator took our $$$ 3 years ago before delivery, if the current estimates are correct, and his communication has been terrible. Relic Knights by Sodapop ran 18 months late and delivered to Retail before KS backers! Raging Heroes is running 18 months late and they’ve even launched a 2nd KS before delivering their first which is late to backers. Sodapops Forgotten King, now split into 2 waves, with wave 1 5 months late and launching in retail before KS backers have received their products, and no definitive estimate on delivery of wave 2, it’s not even in production yet! The list could go on of Late delivering KS! But they all deliver, eventually.
I’ve more than enough stuff to build and paint to keep me amused until PRODOS deliver.
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Post by: Joyboozer
That's nice, but if I see your name as a backer on future projects I back, I'm dropping my pledge.
In fact, all of you, any familiar names, pledge dropped!
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Post by: gunslingerpro
Having dealt with Prodos on their previous KS (Warzone), this behavior wasn't really present. They were a little slow on updates, but nothing on this scale. Delays with KS are expected and did occur on that project.
When comparing that campaign to this one, I have to ask, what is different. The answer is Fox, as Squig said. I'm sure Prodos is tied up by a NDA thicker than a bible (as I've had to sign a similar one myself on various studio/film projects), and who just wants to hear 'We're waiting on X, but we can't tell you why or what issue there is with X because NDA' four times a month in the name of 'communication'.
CptJake, at the risk of bringing up bad memories, you sound a lot like you did at the end of the Sedition Wars. I can tell you, from personal experience, Prodos is head and shoulders better than McVey was in that situation. It will get better (though I understand the frustration 100%).
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Post by: warboss
Gunslinger, you also have to remember that it is human nature to (re)act differently in the face of adversity compared with when most everything goes as planned. Some would say that is a better indication of your true character than when everything is peachy. When the proverbial gak hit the fan with Fox, Prodos shut down the kickstarter under false pretenses for weeks and apparently from posts here heavily pruned their remaining avenues of communication with their customers. Their own communications went from deceptive to pointless to snippy and back for months. The root problem of all this mess may reside with Fox but the communication problems with backers are squarely at their feet and not anywhere else (like with KS as they're attempting to punt the blame there in the recent BOW interview).
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Post by: gunslingerpro
warboss wrote:Gunslinger, you also have to remember that it is human nature to (re)act differently in the face of adversity compared with when most everything goes as planned. Some would say that is a better indication of your true character than when everything is peachy. When the proverbial gak hit the fan with Fox, Prodos shut down the kickstarter under false pretenses for weeks and apparently from posts here heavily pruned their remaining avenues of communication with their customers. Their own communications went from deceptive to pointless to snippy and back for months. The root problem of all this mess may reside with Fox but the communication problems with backers are squarely at their feet and not anywhere else (like with KS as they're attempting to punt the blame there in the recent BOW interview).
Undoubtedly, though the Warzone project was fraught with it's own perils (Casts that couldn't be molded, late delivery, company move, etc). My point was more that while it seems there is sketchy communications or deception or pared down options for communication, a lot of it could easily be explained by an NDA. Project running late? NDA may prevent you from talking about it. Using an unapproved form of communication with backers that lawyers didn't know to monitor? NDA may prevent that.
I'm not absolving Prodos of blame, but when a global conglomerate backed up by a signed NDA with significant monetary penalties says 'hey, no more posts about how you have to remove X, that makes us look bad' or 'hey, tell them everything is fine, we're going to get this back on track', you listen.
Not saying this is the case, but after going through what I did on the first KS, and knowing what I do about working with large companies and IP, I'm much more likely to give Prodos the benefit of the doubt. Not saying that anyone else should share this sentiment, just adding my knowledge.
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Post by: Joyboozer
They're currently blaming one person at fox for the holdup, kinda torpedoes your theory, no?
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Post by: warboss
They're also blaming Kickstarter. Basically, every logo on the project except for the one that starts with a P and ends with a RODOS.
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Post by: Pacific
Well I guess we will find out for sure in a couple of weeks (less than that now) when there is meant to be a release at Salute.
I will either be posting good or bad news after I have been there
But, at the very least I will try and get some good shots of what they have on show and post them here.
Out of interest, how much are you waiting on for this KS ?
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
I have (had?) budgeted to buy discounted retail, but it's not looking like that will happen.
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Post by: timd
JohnHwangDD wrote:
Prodos is proven to be a bunch of lying fethers that make GW look like a bunch of saints.
Oh, wait, you were serious above?
I thought you were being sarcastic.
Prodos doesn't even begin to GW's level of asshattery. It would take Prodos decades of unremitting fethery to even begin to approach GW.
T
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Post by: Pacific
JohnHwangDD wrote:I have (had?) budgeted to buy discounted retail, but it's not looking like that will happen.
I don't see why there is the need to be so OTT. It's going to come at some point either sooner or later, go and watch the movies or put some Space Marines together or something
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Post by: gunslingerpro
Joyboozer wrote:They're currently blaming one person at fox for the holdup, kinda torpedoes your theory, no?
Not really, no. It makes it pretty clear to me that Fox has priorities that don't align with Prodos' or the customers. If I were to venture a guess, I'd say it's been this way the whole time, Prodos asking to release information/get things signed off/finish the project, and Fox being lackadaisical (at best) or hyper IP protective (at worst) about the whole thing.
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Post by: CptJake
 gunslingerpro wrote:Joyboozer wrote:They're currently blaming one person at fox for the holdup, kinda torpedoes your theory, no?
Not really, no. It makes it pretty clear to me that Fox has priorities that don't align with Prodos' or the customers. If I were to venture a guess, I'd say it's been this way the whole time, Prodos asking to release information/get things signed off/finish the project, and Fox being lackadaisical (at best) or hyper IP protective (at worst) about the whole thing.
Or it could be Prodos played loose with the rules they agreed to, and released gak they were not supposed to and slagged blame on the IP holders at every chance they had, and finally the IP holder tightened the reigns.
And IF the KS project was still up, there would be lots of comments from Prodos to support my theory. Not so many to support yours.
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Post by: Ruglud
Could an update be on it's way... Jim Vidlak Jr
42 mins
Prodos will post an update tomorrow, sorry for not getting it posted today, things are very busy behind the scenes right now.
Cheers.
Or will this be another broken promise....
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Post by: BrookM
Update tomorrow?
PLACE BETS!
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Prodos "tomorrow" usually means a fortnight.
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Post by: CptJake
I have total faith we will be getting an update.
Soon.
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Post by: warboss
To paraphrase the kickstarters that are behaving badly, I'm sure they'll be 98% done with the update soonTM barring a force majeure or hostile sexist punctuation. Brownie points if one person gets all the individual references.
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Post by: richred_uk
 warboss wrote:To paraphrase the kickstarters that are behaving badly, I'm sure they'll be 98% done with the update soonTM barring a force majeure or hostile sexist punctuation. Brownie points if one person gets all the individual references.
98% - Palladium Robotech
update soon - Prodos AvP - although didn't they steal "soon" from another (computer game?) KS
force majeure - Gears and Games Battleboards
hostile sexist punctuation - was that the Ice Age Miniatures one by ADW (?) I remember there was one loony tunes KS that blamed men for everything
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Post by: biggusdoggus
richred_uk wrote:
update soon - Prodos AvP - although didn't they steal "soon" from another (computer game?) KS
They didn't steal it - that would have required them to actually think about it, and maybe even use it with a sense of irony.
But yes, it's famously attributed to Blizzard who have often used it in respect of their World of Warcraft game. The wiki on it is good for a chuckle.
http://www.wowwiki.com/Soon
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Post by: Nostromodamus
I always associate "soon" with Valve and Half Life 3.
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Post by: warboss
Alex C wrote:I always associate "soon" with Valve and Half Life 3.
World of Tanks uses it as well (but admittedly less famously). Automatically Appended Next Post: richred_uk wrote: warboss wrote:To paraphrase the kickstarters that are behaving badly, I'm sure they'll be 98% done with the update soonTM barring a force majeure or hostile sexist punctuation. Brownie points if one person gets all the individual references.
98% - Palladium Robotech
update soon - Prodos AvP - although didn't they steal "soon" from another (computer game?) KS
force majeure - Gears and Games Battleboards
hostile sexist punctuation - was that the Ice Age Miniatures one by ADW (?) I remember there was one loony tunes KS that blamed men for everything
Ding! We have a winner on the first post! I must have made it too easy. Also, I'm not sure I should congratulate you or console you on the chance that you're familiar with the troubled KS dakka memes because you've pledged them all.
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Post by: DaveC
Not available for Salute - shocked but you know soon
Prodos Games Ltd says:
Hi all, this update will be a bit different than the previous ones.
First of all, I would like to say, despite the hard work that the Prodos team have put in to this project thus far, we have, once again, have failed to deliver on our estimated time. So please accept my apology; the game will not be available at Salute.
I've decided to share with you 2 screenshots, to explain to you, in depth, where we are at with the development of this game. As you can see on the screenshots we submitted all materials quite a while ago and are still awaiting feedback. It may sound trivial, but that is the truth and most honest information that I can give you at this time, just one signature, one blessing away from having it finalised. The second screenshot is just a recap of where we are and how many line items we have had approved and how many more we needed to resubmit or correct!
Direct link to screenshot 1: http://s2.postimg.org/ral9l5dt5/screensho_1.jpg
Direct link to screenshot 2: http://s4.postimg.org/no37100b1/screensho_2.jpg
We are still very excited to release this game! It is crazy how hard the Prodos team has been working, as the CEO, I thank them with all my heart! They have been cancelling holidays, working in the office throughout Christmas and Easter (and even shifting their planned surgeries), just to make sure that if FOX respond back to us we are here, ready to react and act instantly!
I understand the anticipation, and to be honest it's the same for Prodos.
However, patience is all we have and continue to give, while we await that one lone signature.
I strongly believe that Prodos is extraordinary in the engineering work it is doing! We are leaders in 3D miniatures design, 3D printing and resin casting industry, to the level of no other. This is evident in the number of small, medium and truly large companies that are utilising our team and services. However we are not perfect... We've estimated our KS delivery time based on our previous experience with other licenses. What we did not realise is that, in this case, the “written” content is heavily prescribed; even the tiniest change in the IP may have a huge effect on the overall for this great franchise, thus, the material we have sent for approval is checked in-depth and often by multiple individuals. We have learned a lot in the last year, if we only had this experience two years ago.
The biggest question is when will the game be released? Well, it is only dependant on this one approval, but I cannot give an estimated time, it could be a day, a week or a month...we just do not know.
To recap, once again, please accept my personal apology for the ongoing delays. We will continue to provide you with every piece of information we can, when we can. Hopefully it will not take too much longer to get this final approval; you can rest assured that when it is given, all of us at Prodos will be singing from the rooftops!
We are going to be at Salute, please visit us if you are there! The team and I are more than happy to answer any questions you may have and also, we will have something very special for you to see!
Finally, there have been a lot of requests for change of delivery address. This can be done via the pledge manager; once shipping is announced you will receive an update with instructions on how to change your details.
Jarek CEO Prodos Games.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
The biggest question is when will the game be released? Well, it is only dependant on this one approval, but I cannot give an estimated time, it could be a day, a week or a month...we just do not know.
I am shocked that he did not say "soon".
I am not at all surprised that they aren't making Salute - it's a 2-month lead time from the approval to get anything done, assuming air freight. Add another month if by boat.
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Post by: warboss
It may not be good news but at least it is news unlike with the kickstarter page debacle. It's still an improvement.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
I fear that Prodos may well have made (another) mistake showing those two screenshots.....
big companies are not know for being happy about being made to look bad (even when it is their fault)
I hope the person who's signature is needed does not throw a fit and decide to request change(s) just 'because', or just put the request to the bottom of their big, big pile of work to do because of this
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Post by: Ruglud
Disappointing, but not surprised by this... Glad I only paid what I could afford to lose should it have all gone belly up (I still believe that this will deliver... soon(tm) ). I'll probably give the Prodos stand a quick visit at Salute to see what the 'something very special' is all about...
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:I fear that Prodos may well have made (another) mistake showing those two screenshots.....
big companies are not know for being happy about being made to look bad (even when it is their fault)
I hope the person who's signature is needed does not throw a fit and decide to request change(s) just 'because', or just put the request to the bottom of their big, big pile of work to do because of this
The relevant bit is that Jarek Ewerl of Prodos did not finish submitting things until April 1. They expected overnight approval by Fox?
Anyhow, I sure hope that Prodos didn't breach their NDA by posting these screenshots. I wonder if anybody at Fox Legal can tell us whether Prodos just committed yet another material breach of contract... 
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Prodos has showed those type of progress screenshots before.
Risky move, but apparently they got away with it previously.
I'd not show them at all, if I were Jarek. Thankfully I'm not
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Post by: Motograter
At this rate there will be another movie before this game sees the light of day
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Post by: warboss
 DaveC wrote:Not available for Salute - shocked but you know soon
Where was that update with pic links posted? Automatically Appended Next Post: Alex C wrote:Prodos has showed those type of progress screenshots before.
Risky move, but apparently they got away with it previously.
I'd not show them at all, if I were Jarek. Thankfully I'm not
I guess if Fox doesn't like it, Prodos will again just permanently shut down their facebook page/website/front office or whereever the update came from. Automatically Appended Next Post: Now that I see both the quotes together... are you guys twins or something?
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Post by: dekinrie
That could be one of the delaying factors with a new movie announced a lot of rejigging to make it all canon with stuff that isnt made yet
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Post by: DaveC
Warboss it was sent out to backers by Kickstarter message as they can't use regular updates anymore with the page being down.
Alex is Alex(space)C I have no space so clearly no relation
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Post by: Joyboozer
Yes, those submission dates, interesting...
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Post by: Stormonu
Microsoft Sharepoint for project management?
wow, that explains a lot.
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Post by: cincydooley
Stormonu wrote:Microsoft Sharepoint for project management?
wow, that explains a lot.
Sharepoint works incredibly well with Microsoft Project and Outlook as a comprehensive project management suite.
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Post by: Pacific
Ruglud wrote:Disappointing, but not surprised by this... Glad I only paid what I could afford to lose should it have all gone belly up (I still believe that this will deliver... soon( tm) ). I'll probably give the Prodos stand a quick visit at Salute to see what the 'something very special' is all about...
Yes I'll be heading there too. Big negative thing for me now is that not having the AvP box under one arm means I will have more carrying capacity for other stuff (which will make the whole thing more expensive!)
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Post by: Stormonu
cincydooley wrote: Stormonu wrote:Microsoft Sharepoint for project management?
wow, that explains a lot.
Sharepoint works incredibly well with Microsoft Project and Outlook as a comprehensive project management suite.
Then someone needs to come fix it at where I work because it's crap that makes my job take 10 times longer than it should.
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Post by: Bolognesus
Stormonu wrote: cincydooley wrote: Stormonu wrote:Microsoft Sharepoint for project management? wow, that explains a lot.
Sharepoint works incredibly well with Microsoft Project and Outlook as a comprehensive project management suite.
Then someone needs to come fix it at where I work because it's crap that makes my job take 10 times longer than it should.
Sharepoint is just a framework to adapt to a specific purpose. Take a poorly designed sharepoint site and run it on two toasters and a coffee machine retired from the break room and yes, it will mess up productivity. Doesn't have that much to do with sharepoint per se
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Post by: cincydooley
Stormonu wrote: cincydooley wrote: Stormonu wrote:Microsoft Sharepoint for project management?
wow, that explains a lot.
Sharepoint works incredibly well with Microsoft Project and Outlook as a comprehensive project management suite.
Then someone needs to come fix it at where I work because it's crap that makes my job take 10 times longer than it should.
Hire me! I'll be happy to!
Like Bolognesus said, a poorly set up site is going to yield you nothing. A well constructed one can really be a time saver.
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Post by: Bolognesus
That way, at least something will actually be produced as a result of this mess
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Post by: Balance
Yikes... I know someone who worked on the AvP CCG and has some stories about dealing with licensing via Fox. It wasn't pretty.
Back in "the day" Bungie (makers of Halo, but this pre-dated that) used to use Soon(tm) as their generic answer. I think that pre-dated Valve...
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Post by: paulson games
Saw this posted on facebook. Looks to be Starcraft Zerg with mention that they'd be on display at Salute. Very curious...
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Now we know that "soon" talk was cryptic hinting at things to come!
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Post by: Sheep
Its never been in doubt that they can make great minis, its just their ability to communicate that has been the issue, if they make a starcraft game I'll be hard pressed not to get some.
Looks like 10/15mm scale to me, maybe a competitor to Hawkwargames DZC?
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Post by: Grumpae
That "Would you like to know more" tag line reminds me of Starship Troopers! How awesome would that be? The only good bug is a dead bug! But I do agree it does look much more like Zurg from Starcraft.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
I'm glad to see that Prodos isn't taking their eye off the ball, and they are doing everything in their power to bring AvP to the backers that already paid... "Soon!"
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Post by: Pacific
I'm wondering now, unless the hand is that of an ogre or giant, that those could be about 15mm scale?
Comparing the width of the finger, and if you imagine the height of one compared to a FoW soldier for instance.
Excited as hell about this I have to say..
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Post by: Ruglud
I'm pleased to see Prodos moving on with new ranges and that this isn't a KS they are apparently not going that route again, or at least in the foreseeable future). Why am I pleased when I'm one of the AvP backers? Because I want Prodos to remain financially stable and a new straight to retail licensed product means they should generate cashflow and ensure that when the Fox approval finally arrives, the company will still exist and have readily available funds to complete the KS and deliver our pledges... So to Prodos... (I have no idea though what StarCraft is and to be honest no interest to find out...)
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Post by: Bioptic
Hah! I'm going to tell you anyway:
Video game developers (Blizzard) approach Games Workshop to make a Warhammer game. Games Workshop refuses, so they make the game anyway with "off-brand" Games Workshop elements - Warcraft.
They make a Sci-Fi version of the game - StarCraft, which (shockingly) has some similar elements to 40K. This game is insanely popular, as is the sequel, and both have rabid fanbases. This has the potential to be a real moneyspinner for Prodos!
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Post by: CURNOW
But even if this is a trickled retail release rather than a stand alone box game its not going to be bringing cash flow into prodos for a long while yet .i would be amazed if its released this year. So isn't really going to help us and in fact could delay avp even more if they decide to divert staffing to this new project.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
It is my understanding that Prodos has practically all the AvP models done.
They are also doing work for 8 other KS projects, as well as their new custom head thing.
1 more product line isn't likely to delay AvP any more than it already is.
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Post by: warboss
I found this interesting tongue in cheek article about video game PR that I thought might be somewhat appropriate given the circumstances.
http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/RamiIsmail/20130716/196346/Five_PR_Tips_Indies_Really_Shouldnt_Read.php
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Post by: Pacific
Ruglud wrote:
So to Prodos... (I have no idea though what StarCraft is and to be honest no interest to find out...)
Say WHHHATTTTT !!!
I absolutely LOVE Starcraft, can't imagine not knowing about that game!
Played it a lot when I was younger, then again when in living in Korea (it's practically a national sport there).
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Any news from Salute yet?
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Post by: warboss
I'm sure someone will post something... soon.
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Post by: cincydooley
They probably have to get Fox approvals first
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Post by: Nostromodamus
AWESOME!
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Post by: CptJake
As cool as that is, I would much rather have seen the board game being demoed so we could see the components and maybe get an idea of the finalized rules.
Does anyone recognize any figures they had not previously shown?
From the link wrote:It might still be hard to get your hands on the game itself but the Prodos guys have bought along some amazing miniatures from the Alien Vs Predator game to show off…
'Hard to get' would be an understatement.
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Post by: Ruglud
Didn't see any Young bloods or clear resin preds and underwhelmed that none of the board game elements where on show (asides form the figures we've already seen)
What they had though was all very nicely painted up and looked damn fine...
Didn't bother talking to the Prodos chaps as what was there to say really...
[placeholder for pictures - waiting for them upload...]
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Post by: warboss
The minis do look nice and refreshingly truescaled.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Great! Thanks Ruglud!
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Post by: warboss
Lazy union colonial marines! There are boxes, crates, and barrels to be stacked and the power loaders are just lounging around there on a smoke break! Thanks for the pics.
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Post by: angelofvengeance
That's erm.. A LOT of Xeno's!!
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Post by: Nostromodamus
It's about as many as I have ordered
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Post by: Pacific
Ruglud, I did wonder who that was riding on a pogo stick while taking photos
Absolutely cracking looking stuff on the stand, I didn't see a game in action unfortunately, the pyramid one prior to setup (which looked incredible) and the end of the colony game, where it looked like a couple of poor marines surrounded by a swarm of aliens. I did hear a comment of 'yep, he's dead' of one marine being removed that had been attached in melee by an alien. So, looks like they got that bit right at least!
What I will say is that the level of detail on the standard marines is absolutely fantastic. In a different league to the likes of GW Cadians or Mantic Corporation (although I guess you would expect that considering price). The posing and stuff is spot on as well, you can tell that whoever has sculpted them is really a big Alien fan, there's lots of neat little touches on them.
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Post by: Ruglud
Pacific wrote:Ruglud, I did wonder who that was riding on a pogo stick while taking photos
Yeah - I don't have a steady hand and the pogo makes it 100x worse I need to look at my son's photos on his Ipod - for an 11yr old, he's a much better picture taker then me
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Post by: Pacific
They were however immeasurably better than my own photos, as I didn't take any !
Did you get a chance to play the game at all or see the mechanics in action?
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Post by: Ruglud
No, I never really bother with participation games - far too much to see elsewhere in the show! I will say though that everyone playing seemed to be enjoying it so that's a good sign...
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Post by: TheSecretSquig
It was great to see the models close up and personal. I too back the comments about the detail on the models. The smart gunner looked like a 28mm scale Private Mark Drake, really spot on with the modelling. The Power Loader I thought was a little small, but didn't detract from it being an awesome looking model.
The PRODOS guys generally shook anyone's hand who said they were a backer and thanked them for their patience. Confirmed that it will be in 2 waves, base game first and then all the packaging for the add-ons needs to go through the same approval process. Due to the Contractual Issues "Soon" is all they could officially say.
I didn't play the game, and they were only given the green light to actually show anything the night before from Fox. I really got the sense that they were as frustrated as we all are about the whole situation. They have all this stock sitting in a rented space they can't send out.
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Post by: privateer4hire
Bioptic wrote:Hah! I'm going to tell you anyway:
Video game developers (Blizzard) approach Games Workshop to make a Warhammer game. Games Workshop refuses, so they make the game anyway with "off-brand" Games Workshop elements - Warcraft.
They make a Sci-Fi version of the game - StarCraft, which (shockingly) has some similar elements to 40K. This game is insanely popular, as is the sequel, and both have rabid fanbases. This has the potential to be a real moneyspinner for Prodos!
I'm a big SC fan and I really do hope Prodos/Blizzard produce a line of nice, in-scale to other models in the line StarCraft miniatures series in near future.
That said, I still remember the local big-box game store listing StarCraft:Ghost being available a month or so after I would be gone overseas (somewhere around 2005?).
Still never managed to pick up Ghost
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Post by: Fenriswulf
Does anyone know if you can still get one of the kickstarter boxes through them? Wasn't there going to be some problem where they had too many?
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Post by: Bolognesus
I'm reasonably sure there's more than a couple folks willing to sell their pledges at a discount at this point...
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Post by: CptJake
The Prodos forums have a 'I want to sell my pledge' section, and folk have also used to say "I want to buy a pledge".
http://forum.prodosgames.com/viewforum.php?f=46&sid=da9b17419496dbe074ae43ecca155697
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Post by: jayko657
Upon finding this thread...I started with a "This looks really cool!I wish I had known of this when it was around!" attitude, and 158 pages in 2 days later, I'm quite a bit more skeptical now.
If this EVER hits retail, would you guys recommend buying it? I feel somewhat uncomfortable giving Prodos money at this point, even if it gets me neat predator figures, but the lack of sleep and 158 page long tale might be affecting me.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
If you just want the figures, yes, Prodos does nice minis
If you want the game to go with them, wait and see what the KS people think about it, I think its still up in the air whether the game will deliver (and if it does whether it will work well with all 3 factions)
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Post by: CptJake
It really depends on what you are looking for. If you are looking for a Good Board Game, I would wait for review of the board game to pop up on BGG and other sites.
If you are looking at it for more of the war-game perspective, waiting for those rules to come out and get reviewed would make sense.
If, as mentioned above you are looking for cool minis, Prodos does good resin figure from what I've heard (I don't have any yet) but how the retail version's plastics will be is not known. Of course they will also sell resin figures to support the game, so waiting and grabbing just the figures you want (and maybe using one of the many rule set alternatives if these rules don;t cut it) may make sense.
Personally, I don't plan on giving any more money to Prodos than I have already spent, and am very strongly considering dumping everything I eventually get from them (partially due to not being too happy, and partially due to moving to a MUCH smaller place at the end of this month).
Jake
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
jayko657 wrote:If this EVER hits retail, would you guys recommend buying it?
If it hits retail, then you're bypassing all of the angst of paying and waiting - all of that delay and uncertainty is gone. You simply pay your money and take your toys in one easy transaction, so it just becomes a question of whether you think $XX is a fair price for whatever Prodos offers at that time. Automatically Appended Next Post: CptJake wrote:Personally, I don't plan on giving any more money to Prodos than I have already spent, and am very strongly considering dumping everything I eventually get from them (partially due to not being too happy, and partially due to moving to a MUCH smaller place at the end of this month).
I suspect there will be quite a few pledges for sale if/when Prodos finally delivers - there is always a fair chunk of buyer's remorse, and AvP generated more than its fair share of it.
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Post by: warboss
Is it soonTM yet? I'm trying to plan out my purchases for the forseeable future.
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
Shhhhh! You done spooked 'em! Now we won't see 'em again until nigh onta next snow season.
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Post by: Ruglud
Unfortunately no updates as the last Fox approval is still pending for the rulebook (that's all holding up shipping of the boxed game - wave 1), but a little bit of info from Jarek on Facebook;
Jarek Ever
I think the Alien Warriors are the most complex models to design and cast, even companies with 20y of casting experience where asking questions "how we have cast its tail ?"... it only shows how much experience we have gained in last 2 years.
As for update, well, Fox is again silent, despite their promises to come back to us within 24h... Frankly, we are too small for them to be recognises as a serious business, thus, we have been always on the bottom of the list... but we keep sending emails and try to reach peoples over the phone for some explanations why it is taking so long. Hopefully more info next week.
Jarek Ever
production of the board game started last week (all printed components except to the rulebook) while we are waiting for rulebook approval.. however manufacturer won't be able to store more than 1000 unfinished board games (without rulebook) due to handling, thus, will have to say them to stop at some point (and pay handling and storage fee until FOX will be so kind to review rulebook materials)... so in deep faeces once again, thank you FOX, but no worries we will manage, as always. I'll get some photos from the factory once its running at full steam.
Also please don't get excited, as we have been "close" many times, they still want to see a finish board game (apparently only see it) before we send it out. Then are the Add-ons, most of the models are approved, except to revised tunnels. At this point I've requested to work with USA HQ on add-ons instead UK branch, hoping that the average response time will be less than is currently ... yeah, its 6 weeks currently, stupid.
Anyway I am probably talking too much again but at this stage frustration is taking over logical thinking.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Very frustrating for all involved.
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Post by: Pacific
As a side note for any Alien fans (while we are waiting!) I've just got my hands on the game Alien: Isolation on the PS4 (am a bit late joining the next-gen party).
The game is absolutely, fething incredible. They have absolutely nailed the atmosphere of the first film, probably up there with Doom 2, Mario 64 as an experience that just blows you away the first time you play it. I honestly can't play it for more than an hour, if you've got a good sound system and can play in a dark room it is just so frightening !
So, a bit OP but I thought definitely worth mentioning while we are waiting !
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Yup, very good game. There was a thread going in the Video Games forum but it's been quiet for a while.
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Post by: Stormonu
Pacific wrote:As a side note for any Alien fans (while we are waiting!) I've just got my hands on the game Alien: Isolation on the PS4 (am a bit late joining the next- gen party).
The game is absolutely, fething incredible. They have absolutely nailed the atmosphere of the first film, probably up there with Doom 2, Mario 64 as an experience that just blows you away the first time you play it. I honestly can't play it for more than an hour, if you've got a good sound system and can play in a dark room it is just so frightening !
So, a bit OP but I thought definitely worth mentioning while we are waiting !
As much as I love aliens, I can't play the games - they set me on edge. Something about being the player is just too much for me to handle. However, I have been able to sit back and watch someone play through Isolation on YouTube, and it is a fantastic game/story.
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Post by: Pacific
I have only been able to play for short periods, in a lit room
I saved the game to play with some friends over the weekend (we are all big Alien fans) to start from the beginning and we were crying out throughout it, it was hilarious but also pant-gaking at the same time! The bits when you were looking at the dot approaching on your motion detector, desparately looking for a hiding place, are just amazing. In the scene where the Alien is killing a bunch of people in a room (really, he first time you see it in full) and it had sloped off, my friend who was playing at the time said "that's it, it's gone, the music has stopped" and just started stomping around the room and looting the dead bodies. Obviously thinking it was scripted. Moments later he turned around just as the alien grabbed him from behind, the thing's mouth opened and we all screamed like a bunch of schoolgirls
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Post by: BrookM
Have fun once you reach medical.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
I used to think Medical wasn't too bad. Got through it first time, no deaths.
Do you think I can do it again though? Aw hells no...
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Post by: biggusdoggus
Jarek Ever wrote:
This is rumour control... IT IS NOT a rumour!
X has finally marked the spot...that last elusive signature is in. We at Prodos Games have wasted no time: all outstanding components for the Alein vs Predator The Hunt Begins board game have been put into production. Once we get back from the printers we will look at giving a clear schedule...BUT all is good, all is actually great...and it’s Friday...and finally its about time to celebrate with some beer...
AND ALIEN vs PREDATOR, THE HUNT BEGINS the board game is in production!
AvP: THB includes: Models: - 10 Infant Aliens - 5 Stalker Aliens - 3 Predators - 5 Colonial Marines
Dice: 3 D20 Dice
Cards: - 2 Alien Stat Cards - 3 Predator Stat Cards - 5 Colonial Marine Stat Card - 20 Environmental Cards - 20 Mission Cards (Advanced game) - 60 Strategy Cards (20 for each Faction) (Advanced game)
Board game Tiles: - 32 Straight Corridors - 8 Crossroads - 8 T-Shape - 8 L-Shape - 10 Dead-end - 8 Air Vent Tiles - 7 Rooms (Lab, Escape Capsules, Armoury, Bridge, Hibernation Room, Engine Room and Predator Pod)
Other Peripherals: - 1 Flame/Acid Spit Template (AvP Unleashed) - 151 Wound, Ping!, Activated, Sentry, Hide and Objective Tokens - 20 Door Pieces
... a lot, almost 6 kg (13 lbs) of goodies!
In short, final signature is confirmed and they are now in production of all outstanding Wave 1 components.
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Post by: angelofvengeance
About god damn time lol Yay!
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Post by: warboss
They abandoned the whole "resin for KS, plastic for the rest" thing a year back, right? It's resin for the forseeable future for everyone, correct?
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Post by: biggusdoggus
 warboss wrote:They abandoned the whole "resin for KS, plastic for the rest" thing a year back, right? It's resin for the forseeable future for everyone, correct?
Nope, they never abandoned that.
It's resin for the KS, and plastic for the retail box set. Wave 2 will also be resin for KS, and all models will be available going forward at retail in resin. They've never confirmed either way whether they'll do blister packs/boxes of models in plastic in future as well (or indeed replace resin with plastic in the long term.
So for now at least, everything will be available in resin.
There will (likely) be some retail sets initially that have resin due to the over manufacture, but that's definitely not the long term plan.
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Post by: CptJake
Before they took down the KS page, Prodos did confirm the initial 'retail version' would have resin figures. It was stated this was due to minimum print run numbers being larger than the quantity sold during the KS and when they opened up their webstore to sell KS pledges after the KS.
They have never (that I have seen) changed that.
We have seen sprue designs for the 3 game box predators, so we can probably assume eventually retail versions will have plastics.
It will be interesting to see how much difference there is between the Bespoke KS Edition and what gets released both as the initial retail version and the eventual plastic containing retail version.
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Post by: warboss
Thanks for the confirmation as that is what I remember reading before they fraudulently took down the KS page. I'll wait for the plastic retail version in that case or simply go without if they never get around to it. I doubt they'd gimp the later plastic version given the inevitable outcry in doing so. It was one thing to have special bonuses for the KS backers only but they lost that card in my book when the exact same box was announced to be sold later a year after via the pledge manager (and possibly at retail). Once they put that on the store shelves, I don't see them scaling it back in terms of model or chit/card count. It looks fairly bare bones as is.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Just saw this on BoW. Yay!
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Post by: Pacific
AT FETHING LAST ! !
It's OK now, it's OK, you can relax now...
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Post by: biggusdoggus
@Warboss - if you can get your hands on a resin based boxset, I'd do so. The plastic we've seen is good for sure, but the resin is most definitely much nicer, and unlike other resins manufacturers that I could mention, from what I've seen (having held some minis at UK Expo last year) the resin compound Prodos have chosen is fairly forgiving. Certainly it won't break as soon as you look at it.
@CptJake - my bet is the only difference between KS and retail box sets will be the material the minis are made from. My flabber will be well and truly ghasted if anything else is different. I know (and fully understand) how you probably feel about that, but I guess it is what it is. It seems likely that without our backing, Prodos would never have got this off the ground, so personally I'm not going to get too angry over it if retail buyers end up benefiting from the majority of what the KS backers get.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
don't forget though guys, this is ONLY WAVE 1
Wave 2 needs its packaging to gothrough acceptance, and we can be fairly sure that a lot of work needs to be done with the wargames rules. We've just waited over 4 months for the box set rules to be approved, so it seems more than possible we could still be here waiting for the rest of our stuff as Christmas approaches.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
biggusdoggus wrote:the resin compound Prodos have chosen is fairly forgiving. Certainly it won't break as soon as you look at it
Yes, Prodos resins are very nice indeed.
biggusdoggus wrote:Wave 2 needs its packaging to gothrough acceptance, and we can be fairly sure that a lot of work needs to be done with the wargames rules. We've just waited over 4 months for the box set rules to be approved, so it seems more than possible we could still be here waiting for the rest of our stuff as Christmas approaches.
At least we'll have something to be going on with until then!
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Post by: biggusdoggus
Alex C wrote:
At least we'll have something to be going on with until then!
Oh absolutely, it was a statement of fact more than a complaint. I know there are some out there who aren't fully up to speed with the 2 waves thing, and so might expect all their stuff to arrive presently.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
biggusdoggus wrote: Alex C wrote:
At least we'll have something to be going on with until then!
Oh absolutely, it was a statement of fact more than a complaint. I know there are some out there who aren't fully up to speed with the 2 waves thing, and so might expect all their stuff to arrive presently.
Gotcha
As an aside, I do notice that the picture shows much better board game components than we have seen before. Those tiles look awesome! Much nicer than the prototypes.
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Post by: biggusdoggus
Alex C wrote:
As an aside, I do notice that the picture shows much better board game components than we have seen before. Those tiles look awesome! Much nicer than the prototypes.
but they don't appear to have done anything to improve the connecting lugs between tiles - they still look like they won't hold together that well, and assuming the tiles are double sided (as promised) you'll only be able to use either side in its entirety rather than mix and match because of the lug design.
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Post by: angelofvengeance
I think that's more to do with the light catching on the joints than effectiveness of the lugs. And I don't know what surface you'll be playing on biggusdoggus, but I'll be playing on a nice flat table so they hold together nicely
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Post by: cincydooley
If anyone picked up an extra queen or other big model, lemme know. I'm regretting not....
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Post by: CURNOW
Guess i will have to pic a box up from retail to get on with as i dont hold any hope of getting my pledge before xmas .
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Post by: biggusdoggus
cincydooley wrote:If anyone picked up an extra queen or other big model, lemme know. I'm regretting not....
the pledge manager is still open should you wish to top up and add those models in.
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Post by: cincydooley
biggusdoggus wrote: cincydooley wrote:If anyone picked up an extra queen or other big model, lemme know. I'm regretting not....
the pledge manager is still open should you wish to top up and add those models in.
It is?!?
You don't happen to have the link, do you?
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Post by: warboss
cincydooley wrote:biggusdoggus wrote: cincydooley wrote:If anyone picked up an extra queen or other big model, lemme know. I'm regretting not....
the pledge manager is still open should you wish to top up and add those models in.
It is?!?
You don't happen to have the link, do you?
Apparently prodos will stop taking money at 2 year old KS prices SOONtm?
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Post by: CptJake
cincydooley wrote:biggusdoggus wrote: cincydooley wrote:If anyone picked up an extra queen or other big model, lemme know. I'm regretting not....
the pledge manager is still open should you wish to top up and add those models in.
It is?!?
You don't happen to have the link, do you?
It is in one of the KS updates.
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Post by: biggusdoggus
The Prodos pledge calculator is at ...
calc.prodos.co.uk
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Post by: Ruglud
Prodos Games Ltd says:
Morning all, here are a few answers to frequently asked questions from yesterday:
1. The Board game is in production as we speak, we should have 1st copies by Monday 25th, to go to FOX as a product reference. We have been assured that at that stage there is no "delay" or need for any approval, however the product must be examined and stored as a master copy. Any further changes to the product (if needed) will be done as a running change. For clarification : A running change is an alteration made to a toy in the middle of its production run, that can result in two distinct (in some way, often quite minor) toys, which are considered the "same toy" by the manufacturer, carrying the same wave identifier and (usually) the same internal product code.
2. The official, and confirmed release date of the board game is the 30th June (retail) AND 22th of June for KS backers. The KS release is subject to change (an EARLIER date may be possible if we can make point 3 below happen) and is only dependent on external company manufacturing capabilities. As always we will keep you updated. Most KS backers, depending on their location and/or delays with customs, should have their game before it hits and shop shelves.
3. We are trying to arrange with manufacturing and logistics if at all possible to have at least 50 copies for UK Games Expo, if this happens, collection will be available for those backers who would like to pick up their copy at the UK Games Expo, more info to follow.
4. Under the terms and conditions of the contract we are obligated to release the KS V1 boardgame (High quality resin miniatures) to retail. The plastic injection models are in the approval pipeline and we are aiming to have it approved in 4 to 6 months. (For clarification: resin to plastic changeover cannot be classified as a running change due to usage of different material for manufacturing and quality "degradation" of the product).
5. Add-ons: The Models are approved, and we are going to start working on Monday to get the packaging and cards green-lit as well. We have been assured that it won't be long process as the RULES (written material) for add-on models were approved with Main rulebook.
6. Customs: the Invoice for customs will reflect the "manufacturing" cost, as promised during the KS and not the retail cost. This may affect non-EU and non-USA backers.
7. USA backers: The very first copies of the game will be shipped to our USA dispatch centre, to reduce any delivery downtime, however, I won't be hiding the fact that your collogues in Europe may get the game few days or weeks before your copy reach your doorsteps. I can promises that we will do the best we can to reduce the downtime.
8. Also, for clarification: we have number of shops participating in the KS as well (a shop customers collective pledge), thus, in some cases you may see the product on the shelves before it reaches you. Please keep it calm, as we have promised the priority are backers.
9. Pledge manager changes and address update. By Friday we'll have an update for you with instruction how to do changes in the PM, postal address update and locking the PM. PLEASE make sure that you have done final alternations to your pledge, including the updated postal address by 31st of May. IT will affect the shipping date if the pledge manager is not locked. Please do not send emails to request that we update your postal address as we don't have capacity and capability to do it manually. All information will be available in a forthcoming update.
Jarek Ever
We will unlock onc more time the PM before we ship add-ons (we will let you to modify once again). Locking it at this stage is needed to make sure that your address is correct as we cannot afford to ship 6kg parcel on our cost once again just because we have an old address in the PM.
Jarek Ever
more info about "handling" this will be provided with next KS update (however we don't want anyone to be rammed on the UK games Expo entrance just because we have very limited number of board games available with us and a rule : 1st come 1st served. Give us some time, maybe we can get more than 50 pieces by the show. ..
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Post by: Pacific
Awesome.. I was already planning on going to the UK Games Expo, fingers crossed !
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Post by: gunslingerpro
Nice to see things going full steam ahead. And I may actually get to pick up a resin boxset it seems!
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Post by: eddieazrael
Apologies for jumping in here several years too late, but is there any way of jumping on board now to get the kickstarter content and extras (short of through eBay) or am I stuck waiting for retail?
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Post by: angelofvengeance
eddieazrael wrote:Apologies for jumping in here several years too late, but is there any way of jumping on board now to get the kickstarter content and extras (short of through eBay) or am I stuck waiting for retail?
Hmm unless someone's selling their pledge, then you're way too late. Sorry.
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Post by: CptJake
eddieazrael wrote:Apologies for jumping in here several years too late, but is there any way of jumping on board now to get the kickstarter content and extras (short of through eBay) or am I stuck waiting for retail?
You could try the Prodos forums to see if someone was willing to sell their pledge: http://forum.prodosgames.com/viewforum.php?f=46&sid=cda0fa4860994f6a50318951ed2abfda
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Post by: Todosi
It is available for pre order.
From Facebook:
Hello and good day!
This week we have received the green light to start production of the Aliens vs Predator™: The Hunt Begins board game. The game is available for Pre-order on the Prodos Games webshop shop.prodosgames.com and will be dispatched on June 30th 2015.
AvP™: The Hunt Begins includes:
Models: - 10 Infant Aliens - 5 Stalker Aliens - 3 Predators - 5 Colonial Marines
Dice: 3 D20 Dice
Cards: - 2 Alien Stat Cards - 3 Predator Stat Cards - 5 Colonial Marine Stat Card - 20 Environmental Cards - 20 Mission Cards
- 60 Strategy Cards (20 for each Faction)
Board game Tiles: - 32 Straight Corridors - 8 Crossroads - 8 T-Shape - 8 L-Shape - 10 Dead-end - 8 Air Vent Tiles - 7 Rooms (Lab, Escape Capsule, Armoury, Bridge, Hibernation Room, Engine Room and Predator Pod)
Other Peripherals: - 1 Flame/Acid Spit Template - 151 Wound, Ping!, Activated, Sentry, Hide and Objective Tokens - 20 Door Pieces
... a lot, almost 6 kg (13 lbs) of goodies!
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
 Todosi wrote:It is available for pre order.
From Facebook:
Hello and good day!
This week we have received the green light to start production of the Aliens vs Predator™: The Hunt Begins board game. The game is available for Pre-order on the Prodos Games webshop shop.prodosgames.com and will be dispatched on June 30th 2015.
... a lot, almost 6 kg (13 lbs) of goodies!
5 weeks to dispatch? That seems awfully quick if "dispatch" = shipping something out the door. Is the factory shipping, or is Prodos shipping?
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Post by: Pacific
Bearing in mind the product is meant to be being sent to KS backers the week before, so presumably they must think they will have the stock ready by that point.
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Post by: eddieazrael
Thanks for advice guys...I popped into my FLGS on the way home today and pre-ordered a retail copy. Anyone be able to guess/advise if it'll come with resin or platic minis?
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Post by: CptJake
All the initial release copies are resin. The plastic containing version counts as another product SKU and has not made it through approval yet.
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Post by: biggusdoggus
eddieazrael wrote:Thanks for advice guys...I popped into my FLGS on the way home today and pre-ordered a retail copy. Anyone be able to guess/advise if it'll come with resin or platic minis?
They are estimated (by them) to be as much as 6 months away from getting final approval on the plastics, and in the meantime, retail boxes will contain resin. So it's likely you'll get that.
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
I'm waiting for the plastics. Next year, I'll be able to see how well the Colonial Marines can handle Techcom while the predator dukes it out with aliens and terminators.
Someone needs to make a Robocop mini stat.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Robocop? Against Xenos and Preds, I'll take like mass-production ED-209s.
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Post by: eddieazrael
I've been trying to wade through this thread (managed about 30 pages) but most of it is about Prodos delivering (or not) on the kickstarter. Could I bother you guys for some queries on the game itself?
Is the wargame going to be a standalone product?
Will the boardgame benefit from extra minis (or will they only be of use as part of expansions, or are they intended for the wargame?)
Anyone actually played the boardgame (at a demo, or a beta test?) - is it very much like spacehulk? (Not a bad thing IMHO)
Oh...and as a return, I'll confirm that I saw the pre-order options for a retailer - only the boardgame was currently available for pre-order, but lots of different minis were listed as "not yet available to order" - cloaked preds, facehuggers, marines, etc etc etc. No details on price except for the base game.
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Post by: CptJake
Allegedly we'll get stats for the other figures for board game use. They will also be usable in the wargame. The wargame should be a rulebook, and you'll buy the figures you want to use for it (so yes, it is a stand alone product).
You can PM me your email address and I can send you the PDF of the draft boardgame rules if you like (though I have no idea how much they have/will change before we see the set actually included in the game.)
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Post by: biggusdoggus
the draft rules are also available in the files section of the AvP Wargamer facebook group.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/729606857152569
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Post by: eddieazrael
Thanks for that guys...rules look fun, and reasonably clear for beta - not many questions left (apart from can you shoot in CC :-) ). Interested to see how some of the add-on minis tie in - I assume things like the Predator Berserker are for use in making custom Heros, while the cloaked Preds could be used instead on pings? Or are most of the add-ons meant primarily for the wargame?
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Post by: biggusdoggus
my understanding is that all the add-on models will be usable in the boardgame, and they all have stat lines in the boardgame rulebook (don't quote me on that!) I doubt there are any standard scenarios that use them, but it will be simple to custom build a scenario which does. No need to make custom heroes therefore, though no doubt you could. The cloaked pred models will be used to depict exactly what they say on the tin - so yeah, pings (not read the rules recently, so I'm assuming your terminology is correct)
The add-ons will of course come into their own for the wargame.
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Post by: CptJake
Last Prodos Update (16 May) wrote:Pledge manager changes and address update. By Friday we'll have an update for you with instruction how to do changes in the PM, postal address update and locking the PM. PLEASE make sure that you have done final alternations to your pledge, including the updated postal address by 31st of May. IT will affect the shipping date if the pledge manager is not locked. Please do not send emails to request that we update your postal address as we don't have capacity and capability to do it manually.
Did I miss that Friday update?
I am moving to another state next week. I will need to update the shipping address.
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Post by: biggusdoggus
you did miss it, but don't get too excited .....
Jim Vidlak Jr
Yesterday at 15:45 · Edited
Hey Guys here is your Friday update:
There is nothing new to report right now, we are still working hard behind the scenes to get ready to start shipping. Everything is off at the printers and moving forward.
Don’t forget that we will be at UK Games Expo next weekend and will be demoing AvP. Currently we have no new information on how to, or whether you can, pick up your copy of AvP at the Games Expo yet. We will announce any updates on this as soon as we know.
reading between the lines, I'd say they don't stand a cat in hell's chance of delivering to backers at the UK Expo, and nor will they have the boardgame for demo. As usual their guestimates of how long things take are wildly optimistic.
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Post by: CptJake
How did they put that out? The one I quoted I got as a KS Message. I checked KS before I posted that, and that was the last message from Prodos in my messages.
Was there more, giving the promised instructions?
Thanks.
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Post by: biggusdoggus
'tis on Facebook, and no, they haven't provided any instructions.
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Post by: eddieazrael
Did the 'occasionally mentioned' 3D terrain ever surface, or did it die a silent death/get shuffled off to 'Soon....ish' wave X territory?
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Post by: biggusdoggus
we've not been told it won't show up in wave 2, though equally they are yet to show us their final version of it.
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Post by: Pacific
Wasn't it dismissed as being infeasible ? They had tried some half-size walls (i.e. they stopped at about waist-height of the miniature)
disclaimer: I may be thinking of a different KS.
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Post by: biggusdoggus
no you're not, there certainly were issues with the early design. Their second attempt was almost flat, with walls that were no more than knee high. Backers complained, and they said they were still looking at changing it, at one point declared that'd found a solution and would show us, but then never did.
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