Think I have about £250 in the kitty from 3 campaigns and still haven't managed to plan out what I'm going to get. Only pledged for Monstrous beats but thinking If I could change to mounts and so on...
With our latest Kickstarter project Darklands: New Kindreds completed and hitting a massive £115,000, it's time once more to turn our attention to one of our previous projects, Darklands: First Edition; for we have eight eight more releases from it, one for each kindred!
For this third set of releases from that project, we have Ciniod, an Umaer of Dun Durn for the Albainn; Broga, the first of our boar-men, a Wereofor Thegn for the Angelcynn; Mag ap Mag, another first - this time a Dynwocor warchief - for the Brythoniaid; Agathae, a Signifer of the Byzantii; Naraa, a naughty-looking Tain of Baalor for the Fomoraic; Xontór, another awesome Gorgon for the Khthones; the superb Knútr of Víkin, a general of the Norse; and the frankly disgusting Zethag of Carn Dhu, a Harvest-Drune of the Ysians. An eclectic bunch!
Unfortunately, just like the previous releases this year, thanks to us being busier than busy bees we've just not had the time to get the release art and descriptions done; but you can still see some good images of each miniature on the website of course.
The Albainn have suffered in the past - due simply to a lack of miniatures to use - but all that is changing, as they're getting a release a month just like the other kindreds! This time around we have an Umaer of Dun Durn, a warchief, called Ciniod; sculpted by Olivier Nkweti from the artwork by Sam Lamont and painted by Martin Grandbarbe, he's a cracking little miniature well able to lead your painted ones!
Broga is from another realm of the Angelcynn, Eofora, which is effectively today's East Anglia. The Eoforas are mostly pagan although many are Christian, and unlike many realms all beliefs are tolerated. The pagan Eoforas are allies of the Miercna and many Wereofor - boar-men, like Broga - find a welcome in their hosts, and especially when they fight common enemies. Painted by Sébastien Picque and sculpted by Valentin Zak from the artwork by Christophe Madura, Broga is a cracking miniature and the very first boar-man miniature for Darklands!
Mag ap Mag is another first, for he is warchief of the Dynwocor or jabberwock-men, and he fights for other Brythoniaid realms as much as he does for Powys; for he hates the Saesneg and the Wyddelig and the Norseg as much as the rest. Sculpted beautifully by Roberto Chaudon from the artwork by Christophe Madura, and painted masterfully by Sébastien Picque, Mag ap Mag is a must for any Brythoniaid player!
A Signifer of Legio II Var, the lovely Agathae - sculpted by Yannick Hennebo from the artwork by Steve Pierce, and painted by Martin Grandbarbe - is a cracking miniature and one of only three Byzantii miniatures yet released. Like the Albainn, the Byzantii are a relatively new kindred to Darklands, but that's all changing - watch out for more satanic romans next month!
Jacques-Alexandre Gillois is a master of sculpting our Fomoraic miniatures and he never disappoints. The cold and beautiful Naraa, sculpted by him from the artwork by Stefan Kopinski and painted by Sébastien Picque, is a fantastic addition to the Baalor realm and another showcase for Jacques' talent!
The snake-men of the Khthones, the Gorgones, have another warlord to lead them in the four-armed shape of Xontór the Gorgon. Armed to the teeth and armoured with teeth, Xontór has been sculpted by Stéphane Simon from the artwork by Beth Hughes and painted brilliantly by Sébastien Picque. Watch out, the Atalantes!
The talent of Allan Carrasco is simply amazing to behold. Knútr of Víkin, our Norse longship skipper, is a thing of beauty; sculpted by him from the artwork by Danny Cruz, and painted by Martin Grandbarbe, human miniatures just don't get any better than this. Except when you see Knútr on Horse, of course...
Sculpted by Stéphane Simon from artwork by Danny Cruz, and painted by Martin Grandbarbe, Zethag of Carn Dhu is brilliantly disgusting and foul and rank and horrid; the blood spittle on her mouth is a particularly brilliant feature, we think, but we also love what's around her waist and in her hands. She's obviously just swallowed some, and wants some more!
All of the releases above will be officially released on the 6th of December 2014, but you can pre-order them now from this very website to your heart's content!
Nice, I know some guys who were waiting for Broga to release, I'll give them the heads up!
Also, I finally got my Ágriosávra, Myrkanio, and Eikovra built! Pic below of them (along with some other models in the project I'm using them for).
I used Eikovra's banner topper on Myrkanio, and put the sword blade that is usually at Eikovra's side in its place on the top of Eikovra's staff. Also lengthened the shaft of Ágriosávra's weapon.
I should note, that I think these were some of the most difficult 28mm models I've ever had to assemble. The pegs don't match up with the holes (they're always too wide, or too long, etc) and each model was something like 10 pieces (i.e. two separate legs, body, tail in two pieces, each arm in two separate pieces, head in two separate pieces, or three in the case of Myrkanio, etc...!). The hot water trick was really easy to straighten shafts (just microwaved a cup for two minutes, stuck the staffs in for 10 seconds, then flattened them while they were malleable) but for every joint I found myself having to greenstuff it to get a good fit... I mean almost every joint!
I'm noting all of that because I think this is an area where Mierce might be able to improve, as I don't know if it's the way the sculptor (Chaudon) is breaking up the model, or if it's just their casting process, etc. But I have gotten resin models from other "high end" companies, like Kingdom Death, and found them so much easier to assemble... again, these were the hardest I've ever encountered at this scale, and in so many pieces for a basically man-sized model. The detail is worth it... but, I didn't feel that way in the midst of multiple hours assembling each model
I assembled one of the lizards (Agriosavra) and had such a pain in the ass time getting him together, I've held off on the other two. I also managed to lose the blade stuck in his shield.
I echo the sentiment of tons of pieces for such a tiny dude.
I don't think mine came with anything stuck in their shields! Was that a separate piece? Totally did not see it... from the pics I thought it was an arrow shaft.
And yeah, I have 15 of these models total (10 are assembled above) and there's a reason I delayed so long in tackling them. And they took much longer than I had even thought they might! So, definitely an area for improvement for Mierce / their sculptors / etc.
I'm blogging my progress over in the P&M section, it is for a converted gatorman army for Hordes (the grunts are bog trog zombies, as Bossk_Hogg guessed). Check it out if you like! So that I don't hijack this thread
Of course, I think I have the lizards based on the correct size for Darklands too, if anyone around me starts playing it
I will say that the Ágriosávra is a very nice size. Eikovra is just crouched and curled up, so ends up being short, but his banner helps make up for that. However, Myrkanio (the one with the skull head) is quite weedy, such that my wife even commented "Wow that model is small" when I showed it to her next to the others . Shamans usually are portrayed that way, though, next to other warriors, so I don't think it's an issue. Just noting that Ágriosávra stands significantly taller than the others due to those reasons!
Highlord - I'm guessing I thought the broken blade was just excess material... may leave it off still, since having all the shields with a broken blade in them would be repetitive on the 4 of these I have built. And you have a lot of lizards, unsurprisingly!!
I was considering Gatormen as a use for my deep wars Dark mariners and Scaley horde figures, but I did some more research and found that base sizes matched up better making them a convergence army. I then added Darklands Uuthull as the colossal, and Kairocc Cro as the battle engine (the base sizes match up, and they both totally fit the 'vibe' of the Deep wars figs). Lastly I bought some reaper fish and other aquatic creature familiars to act as the servitors. The powers of the gators match up much better though, none of my sea creatures have any sort of water advantages!
Cnebba, Holumenn and Wave 3 is closing soon!
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It's a Friday, hurrah! We do have a new sculpt for you today, which is officially Good and Marvellous.
With Darklands: First Edition close to fulfilment, there won't be a great deal to show each week from here on in. Even so, there's still some cracking miniatures ahead - and there's plenty of painted miniatures to show, too!
This week there's:
sculpt work in progress images from Allan Carrasco and Stéphane Simon;
news that Wave 3 items will be removed from the webstore next week;
a list of what miniatures should be sent in Wave 3, and when Wave 3 will occur;
updated lists of sculptors and sculpts;
downloadable versions of the current QuickStarter Rules, Muster Rules and Kindred Musters;
news of the Darklands: First Edition rules;
anything else you can expect from us over the next few months.
Onwards...
We have a cracker for you this week thanks to the beautiful Allan Carrasco, and there's also an update from the lovely Stéphane Simon, too!
It's been a while in coming, but Cnebba (pronounced "Nebba") the Mægenwulf (MAG-en-wulf) is totally worth the wait! Praise be to Allan Carrasco!
It'll be a little while before he's done but we do think Cnebba will make it into Wave 5 (February 2014).
Stéphane Simon has almost finished the Hrafnen Crew as Undrik can testify to...
The last warrior of the Hrafnen Crew, Undrik, is almost complete!
Undrik should be finished next week, but the Holumenn will be a Wave 5 shipment, unfortunately; we just won't get everything done in time for them to ship now.
With Wave 3 beginning to ship on the week beginning November the 24th, it is time to remind you all that ALL Wave 3 items will be removed from the Kickstarter category on the 24th - which is next Monday, or three days away!
In a nutshell:
Wave 3 items will be removed from the Mierce Miniatures website at midnight (GMT) on the 24th of November (just three days away). The following items will be removed from the website:
ANGELCYNN: Eadric on Horse - Hrōr
BRYTHONIAID: Urien on Horse
BYZANTII: Con I Modius (Modius - Gellius - Tiberius- Livia - Severa)
FOMORAIC: Mananaan on Horse
YSIANS: Crom on Horse
You will only see these items in the webstore if you have backed this project, of course.
After November 24th, you'll have to wait until they're released!
If you don't purchase any Wave 3 items you'd like by November the 24th, you won't be able to purchase them again until they are released to the general public, and - depending on the miniature involved - that could be for a long while yet! Plus, they'll be at full price of course.
What are you waiting for? Grab those Wave 3 items now!
Giants, Goats, Ravens and Weirdos - and Wave 4 will close soon!
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It's quite a grey, overcast Friday here at Mierce Towers, but that doesn't stop us bringing you a cracking little update today!
Without further preamble, this week we have:
sculpt work in progress images from Olivier Bouchet, Roberto Chaudon, Benoît Cosse and Yannick Fusier;
news that Wave 4 items will be removed from the webstore on Monday;
a list of what miniatures should be sent in Wave 4, and when Wave 4 will occur;
an updated list of sculptors and sculpts for this project;
downloadable versions of the current QuickStarter Rules, Muster Rules and Kindred Musters;
anything else you can expect from us over the next few months.
Let's begin!
After a dearth of sculpts last week, this week we have some absolute crackers, for which we must all rejoice!
Yannick Fusier has been very busy of late and the latest Oghurithne-shaped fruits of his labours arrived in our inbox to much happiness...
The herald of the Oghu Guardians, Lobeg, is a characterful beggar and no mistake...
We do hope to get the rest of the unit for Wave 5, but we'll see on that. Yannick is a busy man!
Here's a lovely surprise for everyone: the fantastic Gooracx or goat-beast that Brunchaath the Vile will be riding on very soon!
With the Gooracx about complete, we don't think it will take long for Brunchaath to be done; so Brunchaath on Gooracx should be a Wave 5 shipment.
The splendiferous Roberto Chaudon has been working hard on the raven-men - and a raven-woman in particular...
Agni is a fantastic sculpt and, whilst there's a bit to do on her, it shouldn't be long before she's done.
With Agni almost complete and Roberto telling me that Ormrinn's not far behind, we are confident that the Corpse Takers will be a Wave 5 shipment.
Olivier Bouchet is fast becoming our go-to sculptor for big guys; he's neat, quick, and follows every concept very well indeed, as Ingenga shows...
There's not much detail yet but Ingenga is definitely getting there... nipples covered up to protect the innocent!
With two left from the unit - Gorz and Rulguss - we think that the Abhorrents will make it into Wave 5!
Wave 4 shipments will begin on the 24th of November!
It won't be long now until Wave 4 begins - next week! - and we're also combining Wave 4 with Wave 3 items from Darklands: First Edition. With regard to Darklands: First Edition, Wave 1 and 2 shipments are now complete, which leaves Wave 3 clear to begin casting for.
We do have some bad news: we've had to put back The Eye Ascendant, Warriors of Baalor unit to Wave 5. They're not yet printed thanks to the Teulu issues, and with the best will in the world, there's just not enough time to do it all.
Please bear in mind that Wave 4 shipments will continue from November into December and probably January 2015. We will try to get everything out as soon as we can, but there's a lot to ship - and as always we will prioritise orders in date order; i.e., if you ordered early, you'll get your stuff sent early. Plus, there's Christmas to contend with!
What we're saying, basically, is - please be patient! We are doing everything as fast as we can.
With Wave 4 beginning to ship on the week beginning November the 24th, it is time to remind you all that ALL Wave 4 items will be removed from the Kickstarter category on that day.
In a nutshell:
Wave 4 items will be removed from the Mierce Miniatures website at midnight (GMT) on the 24th of November, which is only three days away!
The following items will be removed from the website:
You will only see these items in the webstore if you have backed this project, of course.
After November 24th, you'll have to wait until they're released!
If you don't purchase any Wave 4 items you'd like by November the 24th, you won't be able to purchase them again until they are released to the general public, and - depending on the miniature involved - that could be for a long while yet! Plus, they'll be at full price of course.
What are you waiting for? Grab those Wave 4 items now!
Ciniod on Aurogg, and Wave 4 closes soon!
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It's been a little while since the last update, but here's another to tide you over till next time!
This week we have:
sculpt work in progress updates from Aragorn Marks;
a list of what miniatures should be sent in Wave 5 and later Waves, and when Wave 5 will occur;
a list of sculptors and sculpts for this project;
UPDATED, downloadable versions of the current QuickStarter Rules, Muster Rules and Kindred Musters;
anything else you can expect from us over the next few months.
Let's begin!
Aragorn Marks has been beavering away in his little shed, and these are the results...
With Oso completed and a resin cast shipped off to Aragorn, Ciniod on Aurogg is certainly progressing well.
It shouldn't be long before Ciniod on Aurogg is finished, but he will be a Wave 5 shipment.
Here's an up to date list of what we think will be shipped when.
It won't be long now until Wave 4 begins, and we're also combining Wave 4 with Wave 3 items from Darklands: First Edition.
Please bear in mind that Wave 4 shipments will continue from November into December and probably January 2015. We will try to get everything out as soon as we can, but there's a lot to ship - and as always we will prioritise orders in date order; i.e., if you ordered early, you'll get your stuff sent early. Plus, there's Christmas to contend with!
What we're saying, basically, is - please be patient! We are doing everything as fast as we can.
With Wave 4 shipping in the week beginning November the 24th, it is time to remind you all that ALL Wave 4 items will be removed from the Kickstarter category on that day.
In a nutshell:
Wave 4 items will be removed from the Mierce Miniatures website at midnight (GMT) on the 24th of November, which is only three days away!
The following items will be removed from the website:
ALBAINN: Oso
You will only see these items in the webstore if you have backed this project, of course.
After November 24th, you'll have to wait until they're released!
If you don't purchase any Wave 4 items you'd like by November the 24th, you won't be able to purchase them again until they are released to the general public, and - depending on the miniature involved - that could be for a long while yet! Plus, they'll be at full price of course.
What are you waiting for? Grab those Wave 4 items now!
We'll keep this list updated every Friday.
SHIPMENT WAVE 0: almost complete for this project; we estimate that all the existing miniatures will be shipped by the end of next week.
SHIPMENT WAVE 4 (November 2014): Oso.
SHIPMENT WAVE 5 (February 2015): Ciniod on Aurogg - Erebius on Behema - Brontull - Ágriosávra on Sávrakh - Krekkek - Beb on Pig-Bog
SHIPMENT WAVE 6 (April 2015): Birna on Fellhrafn - Vaenhildr
Items in bold will DEFINITELY be sent in that wave as we have the sculpt; items in italics are in progress and should make it into that wave, but we don't yet have the sculpt.
Existing Miniatures Category Closes on Monday!
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That's right - it's now the end of November, and thus the Existing Miniatures category will be closed on Monday the 24th of November at midnight (GMT)!
In a nutshell:
The Existing Miniatures category will be removed from the Mierce Miniatures website at midnight (GMT) on the 4th of August
In other words, get your skates on if you want any any more existing miniatures at a discount!
How long do I get to purchase more Darklands: New Kindreds items?
You have until these items begin to ship to purchase more Darklands: New Kindreds stuff - thus, you have until June 2015, August 2015 and October 2015 for those that ship later!
When will you ship existing items?
Due to various pressures, not least of which Darklands: First Edition, Darklands: First Edition II and staff holidays (it is Christmas soon!), miniatures purchased from the Existing Items category will begin to ship next week, but shipping will likely continue into December and January.
I held off getting Cnebba as I did not like the concept art, however I am really liking how he is turning out. Again I am liking the Raven woman, some amazing details on her/it.
Another Friday is here, and that means there's another update!
With Darklands: First Edition close to fulfilment, there won't be a great deal to show each week from here on in. Even so, there's still some cracking miniatures ahead - and there's plenty of painted miniatures to show, too!
This week there's:
sculpt work in progress images from Michael Anderson, Allan Carrasco and Stéphane Simon;
news that Wave 3 items will be removed from the webstore next week;
a list of what miniatures should be sent in Wave 3, and when Wave 3 will occur;
updated lists of sculptors and sculpts;
downloadable versions of the current QuickStarter Rules, Muster Rules and Kindred Musters;
news of the Darklands: First Edition rules;
anything else you can expect from us over the next few months.
Onwards...
We have some awesomeness from Michael Anderson this week, further progress from Allan Carrasco and there's also an update from the lovely Stéphane Simon...!
Cnebba
Allan Carrasco has been hard at work polishing Cnebba (pronounced "Nebba") the Mægenwulf (MAG-en-wulf), and whilst he's not quite finished yet, it won't be long before he is... and we can't wait!
Remember, Cnebba is on a 100mm base (the circle you see is around 90mm), so he's a big 'un! Here's an early scale shot...
We do think Cnebba will make it into Wave 5 (February 2014).
Rikkard
A new sculptor to our range, Michael Anderson, has begun sculpting Rick Boer's Ancestor, Rikkard - and we're very keen to see the results because so far he's looking fantastic!
We do believe that Rikkard will be a Wave 5 shipment...
Undrik
Stéphane Simon has now completed the Hrafnen Crew - check out Undrik!
The last warrior of the Hrafnen Crew, Undrik, is now finished!
The Holumenn will be a Wave 5 shipment now.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And more!
Wave 4 extension and more!
It's another drizzly, grey, overcast Friday here at Mierce Miniatures... but we don't care. It's update day!
Without further preamble, this week we have:
sculpt work in progress images from Olivier Bouchet, Roberto Chaudon and Olivier Nkweti;
news that Wave 4 items will be removed from the webstore on Monday;
a list of what miniatures should be sent in Wave 4, and when Wave 4 will occur;
an updated list of sculptors and sculpts for this project;
downloadable versions of the current QuickStarter Rules, Muster Rules and Kindred Musters;
anything else you can expect from us over the next few months.
Let's begin!
This week we have some Gairlom, more Hrafnmenn and a completed Abhorrent!
Gairlom
With Olivier Nkweti now having "fixed" the Teulu and the Eye Ascendant (which need to be printed before we show them to you), he's turning his attention to the next unit on his list - the Gairlom for the Albainn, the Spears of Dun Durn...
Nectan, the unit banner bearer, is coming along nicely, as you can see! A Teulu warrior is next to him to show you his scale.
We do hope that the Gairlom will make it into Wave 5, but they may just be Wave 6 - we'll see. Note, here, that Olivier will be doing the alternate warriors (for Darklands: New Kindreds) at the same time as the unit.
Corpse Takers
Too speedy to measure, Roberto Chaudon has been cracking on with the Corpse Takers and the results, we think, are spectacular...
Ormrinn is the next Hrafnmann on Roberto's list and he's looking superb... that mast is going to make a lovely base!
Agni's now complete, and Ormrinn's just about there; and with only Oddr left to do, we are very confident that the Corpse Takers will be a Wave 5 shipment.
Abhorrents of Ys
The Abhorrents of Ys are over the hump, with three miniatures completed and two to go...
The rather hairy Ingenga is now completed, thanks to Olivier Bouchet's speed, and she's looking fantastic!
Spoilered for NSFW
Spoiler:
With two left from the unit - Gorz and Rulguss - we think that the Abhorrents will make it into Wave 5!
Gomagg
We've finally got around to assembling our lovely giant for the Albainn, Gomagg, and thought that - as he's so large and impressive - we may as well give you a few scale shots, just to show you how big he actually is...
Gomagg v Krull - "I'm going to hit you"
Gomagg v Mjagnir
Gomagg v Angrislaug
Gomagg v Druc
Gomagg is on a 120mm base for stability, and please note - he will definitely fit on a 50x75mm base. Just sayin'...
I didn't really know anything about Mierce Miniatures until this past GenCon. The War Store had a bunch of the models on sale for $5.00 each. After seeing the detail up close, I bought everything I could find. I will definitely be buying more, even at regular prices!
So Darklands: First Edition reopened. Seeing the later projects, the best deals are definitely (requiring Darklands & Uhtred to have been bought, which is a great deal on it's own) getting the mounted + on foot models for 30 GBP. Most of the other stuff has been exceeded in value by later projects, but those tend to be 40 GBP now.
Yeah, literally everything you need to start the game with any faction and a few other bits is great value.
If anyone didn't back the KS, Rob did say email kickstarter@mierceminiatures.com and ask to be added, and then you'll get access. They're good like that, that's how I got into the Mierce train with the first project.
ANYONE CAN GET THE 50% OFF KICKSTARTER SWEET SPOT PLEDGE FROM DARKLANDS FIRST EDITION!
DARKLANDS: FIRST EDITION IS BACK!
Thanks to a number of backers of this project (and some that didn't), as well as a "why not?" from ourselves, we've decided to unlock the whole of Darklands: First Edition - so that's items from Wave 1 and 2 available again, as well as all the hosts and "THE SWEET SPOT" - to give you a last chance blow-out before the project draws to a close. It's Christmas, after all!
So, what we're doing is giving you the chance to purchase EVERYTHING from Darklands: First Edition for one week only, from today until Monday the 15th of December at midnight (GMT)!
THE SWEET SPOT RETURNS!
Click for a larger image
Yes indeed - there's been so many requests for THE SWEET SPOT that we've turned down that we've felt a bit guilty over the last few months. So here's that awesome deal again for you!
All you need do is, when you make your order for THE SWEET SPOT, tell us which general you'd like and which encounter host you'd like in the "special instructions" box, and we'll do the rest. Go for it!
A word of warning - what we don't want to happen is refund requests that you then use on THE SWEET SPOT. Please don't do that - we will refuse to do them!
I've not backed Darklands: First Edition, but I want some!
That's not a problem - if you didn't back Darklands: First Edition, just e-mail us at kickstarter@mierce-miniatures.com, and we'll do the rest to give you access!
What about Shipping?
If you don't purchase a Wave 3 item, we'll ship this stuff with your other shipments to come; if you do, we'll ship it as soon as we can!
You've got Ten Days!
You've now got ten days - until Monday, the 15th of December - to get a hold of anything from Darklands: First Edition. Once that date is passed, we'll be removing all Wave 1, Wave 2 and Wave 3 items from the webtore FOREVER - along with THE SWEET SPOT and any hosts!
What are you waiting for? Grab those Darklands: First Edition items now!
Pretty awesome they re-opened! Nice little Christmas bonus
Though as a heads up, a few items ended up being cheaper at retail than KS1 prices, mostly the mounted guys and Xontor. Not sure if they lowered the price in the KS section to match the retail. The sweet spot is a great deal though
Bossk_Hogg wrote: Pretty awesome they re-opened! Nice little Christmas bonus
Though as a heads up, a few items ended up being cheaper at retail than KS1 prices, mostly the mounted guys and Xontor. Not sure if they lowered the price in the KS section to match the retail. The sweet spot is a great deal though
Yeah, nothing is as low as the 50% off for the Sweet Spot.
judgedoug wrote: Once you've started collecting Mierce you kinda start to care a lot less about other models.
And once you start actually putting them together, you start to care a whole lot more
Seriously, I'm still in love with their big monsters, but for small models I feel like their quality of casting and fit does not hold a candle to some other boutique resin companies. (Kingdom Death comes to mind as the best of the best, but there are many I would rank above Mierce in this regard)
It is awesome that they enlist top sculpting talent, but to make a truly high end product, they have to get a final result to the end user that is well crafted. I think their casting is extremely well suited to large models, but again for man-sized models, I'm not convinced based on the almost 20 models I have from them at this size.
judgedoug wrote: Once you've started collecting Mierce you kinda start to care a lot less about other models.
And once you start actually putting them together, you start to care a whole lot more
Seriously, I'm still in love with their big monsters, but for small models I feel like their quality of casting and fit does not hold a candle to some other boutique resin companies. (Kingdom Death comes to mind as the best of the best, but there are many I would rank above Mierce in this regard)
It is awesome that they enlist top sculpting talent, but to make a truly high end product, they have to get a final result to the end user that is well crafted. I think their casting is extremely well suited to large models, but again for man-sized models, I'm not convinced based on the almost 20 models I have from them at this size.
Really? Interesting. I've got about, hmm, ten man-sized models, and they've been great. Specifically, all the man-sized Fomoraic characters that currently exist, have been a breeze to assemble and are exquisitely sculpted and detailed.
Just to clarify that judgedoug, I actually didn't mean to infer that you hadn't assembled models, just that it was something I hadn't realized until assembling some. I've only gotten through 10 of the ones I have, it is quite daunting! Whereas the large monsters of theirs I have assembled have been as you say, a breeze.
I think another great comparison point would be the recent Arena Rex resin models, which by all accounts are amazing casts (I have one in the mail to me right now). I just think it's worth noting that while Mierce always displays incredible greens, there are / have been some issues with fit and casting results on the final product, although this obviously varies depending on the sculpt.
I mentioned this last page, but the man-sized lizard models (Ágriosávra, Myrkanio, and Eikovra) that I just built quite a few of (multiples of each since I'm running them as a counts-as unit for another system) were by far the hardest models of that size to assemble that I have ever encountered. And I have worked with resin models from quite a range of companies. I have a few other human models and they look to be easier - so I think it varies depending on the sculpt. However, I've seen this noted by others before and it doesn't seem to have really gotten noticed, so I think it's worth pointing out for people to keep in mind.
Again though, I'm referring to their small casts, not the monsters, which I've had nothing but fantastic results with.
Again though, I'm referring to their small casts, not the monsters, which I've had nothing but fantastic results with.
Oh, sure - like I said I mainly have the Fomoraic man-sized models, and those have been easy - and most of those are older. Perhaps it's that newer sculpts aren't cut for casting as well, or are maybe more complicated than many of the older sculpts?
But thanks for the heads up on those guys at least
The Savrar are a good example of badly fitting MIerce minis. Those buggers are daunting to say the least. Lots of GS to get everything to work. I didn't just have to fill gaps, but there are quite a few bits that, frankly, just don't line up.
Also, some of the mold lines on smaller models are really tricky to get rid of without taking out a bunch of detail.
I read RiTides post and I knew immediately he was talking about the Sarvar. I absolutely agree. They look great, but they took a lot of TLC to get put together nicely.
Anything on a 50mm base or bigger? Awesomesauce. No real issues other than my own clumsiness, ineptitude, and lack of skill as a painter/ modeler.
Yeah, the little guys are delicate. The other night I was putting together the Duguth and their feet kept falling off. One fell on the floor and disappeared, I'd pretty much given up the model as scrap. Next morning I found it under the skirting board. Lucky me. I'm getting a dab hand with the Dremel.
As I looked at my remaining models I thought to myself "At least the ankles are the weakest points on the miniatures. It's not like any of them have their delicate little fingers outstretched, I mean that would be .....Oh balls, Aldhelm!"
Glad to hear I'm not alone/crazy regarding those models! Obviously, it could be the particular sculptor, too - but the Arena Rex model in the mail to me is also by Roberto Chaudon, so if it goes together easily, that would make me think it's not his doing.
Just compared another Roberto Chaudon sculpt last night to these (his Mago sclupt for Arena Rex). It goes together just fine, and the pegs look crisp and actually match up really well with the holes.
Since none of that was the case on the savrar for Mierce, I think the problem is on the casting end rather than the sculpt.
They are a bit fiddly to assemble I'm afraid. It's nothing to do with the casting - the casting only makes a copy of what is already there. These guys are very detailed sculpts in dynamic poses across a x, y & z axis and with lots of sharp spines, fins etc jutting out here and there creating a wealth of undercuts and snags for moulding - hence they are in a LOT of parts for what are circa 35mm models. They are in as many parts as a regular 50/60mm mini by Roberto.
Roberto is a great sculptor and isn't one for compromising pose/details to cut down on parts (nor do we usually encourage him to cut down, it's why he's so great at nailing concepts) - we could have made them in less parts and compromised on the poses a little but as they are characters we thought what the hell - people will only typically have one each of these guys in Darklands.......
I LOVE the Savrar minis though I also swore a bit assembling one ( I certainly didn't plan on assembling a unit of ten Agriosavras though!) - we'll look at what we can do in future with these guys - the tails, spines, open jaws etc don't make for simple miniatures - though if you look at the previewed concepts for the Savrar unit you will see they are simpler than the characters.
I think some of the pegs may be out by a fraction of a millimetre on some of the Savrar components (though on smaller minis I usually snip off the peg and pin instead for extra durability)- they are added after the mini is cut and on a smaller mini a small error is more noticeable. Again, note that casting doesn't make the pegs or holes move any - casting just copies what is already present. I'll look at our resin masters of these guys with a view to snipping off the pegs (not really needed on small minis) to aid alignment or moving them/shaving them a little.
As far as ease of casting/casting quality goes - on the whole larger models give you more difficulty than smaller ones - there's more things that can go wrong, especially mould shift (as the mould is bigger/heavier). Our larger models give us more issues than smaller ones so I would say the recent topic/posts are more anecdotal, though yes a bad mould line on a small mini is more of a pain to clean up - but also bare in mind that although we QC our minis we cast 1000s of parts a month and mistakes happen - we do have an excellent replacement service, all we ask for is a photo so we can identify the part and issue. You'll struggle to spot a mould line on some of our smaller minis at all as we have some nifty tricks with them - but errors happen especially when you cast as many resin minis as we do - outside of FW I'm not sure if anyone ships as many wargaming (proper)resin minis/parts every month, month in, month out as we do and we do all of our moulding and casting is in-house - not bad for a small company!
It's inevitable that some complaints will occur and we handle them all soon as we can and with respect - all we ask is for a photo if there's a suspect cast so we can spot any potential issues and of course correctly identify the part (the amount of times people have said a left arm is missing and we send them one only for them to say 'oh it was the right arm missing' ). Our complaint ratio is less than 1% of all parts shipped and the majority of that <1% are missing parts/bases and packing errors as opposed to casting errors.
Were always available to discuss any casting queries/missing parts - please bare in mind that although we do check this thread it's only once a week if that (we have to cast these minis you know!) so please use
parts@mierce-miniatures.com if you need a replacement/something is missing. (we check the email account twice a day - morning and afternoon UK time) - we're also more active on our KS comments threads if you have a query regarding anything from a KS - PM us there. We respond quicker.
TLDR; Savrar - bit fiddly, yes. We'll see if we can sort the peg alignments for future moulds.
Just a few notes, I agree that mold slip is a bigger problem on large minis in general. My Sea Devil from Mierce certainly had very noticeable mold lines, unlike the savrar. But the fit of its joints was much better.
Does the sculptor add the pegs for assembly, or the caster? I only ask because the pegs on Mago, also by Roberto Chaudon, look completely different than the savrar.
Same question regarding cutting up the mini - is it the sculptor who does this, or the caster, in your case? I have heard both for other companies, so not sure how you approach it, or if it depends on the miniature. The savrar are complex, sure, but I'm not sure that a really ace resin caster couldn't have done them in significantly less pieces. Much more important is the fit of those pieces together, though, and as you say I did indeed snip off basically every peg and greenstuff all joints.
Once again, thanks for the thorough reply, and for looking into this!
I said it when they were released, but I'll say it again- the CG printed Khthon were some of the smoothest to put together. Pegs all went exactly where they were supposed to, and were just the right size. I didn't have to file and fiddle with them.
All this Savrar talk has made me absolutely determined to get the rest of mine put together before the year's end, once I'm off from work. I just need to clear some space off my desk first!
The cuts/pegs or 'junctions' are always carried out by the sculptor(s). Where they make the cuts is at my request, though most of our sculptors know by now where we'll require them. Though we'll often discuss cuts before sculpting in many cases, particularly on more complex minis. If you have some assembly pegs that look a little different on two or more sculpts by the same sculptor - that's down to how the sculptor felt like sculpting them that day.
The savrar are complex, sure, but I'm not sure that a really ace resin caster couldn't have done them in significantly less pieces
Sometimes we'll have a sculpt in more pieces - not because it can't be cast like that - but because the moulds would last longer if there's more pieces. The Savrar for example could all have their lower jaws on the head - but the moulds would tear much sooner (a lot of the spikes on the Savrar will scratch the inside of the mould leaving scrapes on future casts) . We are 'really ace resin casters' btw and it's not a matter of 'being really ace' (or not) in this case (we can cast pretty much anything without a single cut made to the sculpt, though you might only get single digit casts from that mould) - it's down to maximising production. We also consider when working out the cuts that it's best if a mould can do another 20+
casts before it burns out. This way we can spend more time casting before a mould needs replacing. KS backers prefer to get their stuff as soon as they can, and maximising our production methods helps with this, though resin casting remains the slower production method out of resin, plastic and metal - but the best in terms of detail.
Most of the time a resin caster won't even be involved in the parts process (most of them act as 3rd parties) so you will often find that they start swearing when they get the sculpted parts in a bag (I've seen this happen, I know a few of these guys ) and accept that their moulds will burn out sooner leading to more work for them and likely a higher cost for the casts as there will be an increase in the moulding cost. The more pro-active ones will soon ask to be involved once the sculpt is finished so they can have some extra cuts added where they like them and thus their moulds last longer (and they can spend more time working for others) . This is where we have a nice benefit having the guy that makes the moulds also being the guy that handles the sculptors. I'll often discuss any potential niggles with a sculptor upfront and can explain some whys and wherefores. I also ask to be involve in the final stage with our 3rd party casting service we provide for others - it's better for all.
You have to bear in mind that a lot of sculptors are still used to making cuts for metal casting (less parts needed if the cast is mainly on a x,y axis such as the old GW metals) with resin casting, though it handles undercuts much better it will often benefit from things like weapon arms/weapons being separated. (you can usually leave these on with metal as the centrifugal force will take care of it) or if you plan a sculpt from the concept stage to be cast in resin you can have fewer parts - most of our infantry unit models for example such as the Duguth and the Drune Axemen have very few parts - as we know people will be assembling a load of these. Savrar characters? We didn't consider that people would want to use 10 or so of them (caring less about other game systems) so we went for more parts. The moulds lasted longer and we shipped them quicker. Took longer to assemble but most people only ordered one of each.
Also a noticeable 'fit' issue can be down to how a mini was cut. Slicing with a sharp scalpel/Xacto is possible with some materials (though the armature will need sawing) such as baked Fimo - but some tougher materials or alrger, more complicated cuts need to be cut with a fine jeweller's saw. The saw will naturally remove the same thickness of material as the width of the saw blade (less than a mm) so a mini that has been 'sawed' will have a small part of the sculpt missing (it turns into sawdust!) where a sliced cut just parts the mini aside. A sculptor will rework the mini, but a 100% replacement fit is difficult.
On rare occasions I'll make some additional cuts to a resin master, this easier than working on the sculpt itself as I can slice hot resin and don't saw. Though this is in single digit numbers across our range and we've never had an issue with any of those to my knowledge (and I read all of our @parts emails) . Now Aragorn Marks is available again (and local) I will sometimes visit him with any pieces we need altered. He's chopped a few guys up before now.
The Sea Devil was by Stephane N'guyen - I would say that he and Aragorn Marks are the best guys at junction work that we work with. Everyone is different though.
Right - these Proteanc wings moulds won't cut themselves you know (plus in final planning for the surprise pet project of mine)- best dash off and get them sorted!
Cheers
Tim
Edit
I said it when they were released, but I'll say it again- the CG printed Khthon were some of the smoothest to put together. Pegs all went exactly where they were supposed to, and were just the right size. I didn't have to file and fiddle with them.
This is where 3d has a massive benefit - the parting is exact (when done by a good 3d guy such as Olivier or Hector) - pure precision. Though I feel that traditional methods still retain more character.
bananaman wrote: The cuts/pegs or 'junctions' are always carried out by the sculptor(s). Where they make the cuts is at my request, though most of our sculptors know by now where we'll require them. Though we'll often discuss cuts before sculpting in many cases, particularly on more complex minis. If you have some assembly pegs that look a little different on two or more sculpts by the same sculptor - that's down to how the sculptor felt like sculpting them that day.
The savrar are complex, sure, but I'm not sure that a really ace resin caster couldn't have done them in significantly less pieces
Sometimes we'll have a sculpt in more pieces - not because it can't be cast like that - but because the moulds would last longer if there's more pieces. The Savrar for example could all have their lower jaws on the head - but the moulds would tear much sooner (a lot of the spikes on the Savrar will scratch the inside of the mould leaving scrapes on future casts) . We are 'really ace resin casters' btw and it's not a matter of 'being really ace' (or not) in this case (we can cast pretty much anything without a single cut made to the sculpt, though you might only get single digit casts from that mould) - it's down to maximising production. We also consider when working out the cuts that it's best if a mould can do another 20+ casts before it burns out. This way we can spend more time casting before a mould needs replacing. KS backers prefer to get their stuff as soon as they can, and maximising our production methods helps with this, though resin casting remains the slower production method out of resin, plastic and metal - but the best in terms of detail.
Most of the time a resin caster won't even be involved in the parts process (most of them act as 3rd parties) so you will often find that they start swearing when they get the sculpted parts in a bag (I've seen this happen, I know a few of these guys ) and accept that their moulds will burn out sooner leading to more work for them and likely a higher cost for the casts as there will be an increase in the moulding cost. The more pro-active ones will soon ask to be involved once the sculpt is finished so they can have some extra cuts added where they like them and thus their moulds last longer (and they can spend more time working for others) . This is where we have a nice benefit having the guy that makes the moulds also being the guy that handles the sculptors. I'll often discuss any potential niggles with a sculptor upfront and can explain some whys and wherefores. I also ask to be involve in the final stage with our 3rd party casting service we provide for others - it's better for all.
This is again very helpful, and I appreciate your taking the time out to answer my questions!
However, in your second sentence above, you mention that where the cuts are made is at your request, and later you explain that a major motivator for this is to maximize production.
Personally, when buying a resin mini, my higher priority (by far) is the quality of the model, rather than production time... I think that that is the case for many people who are after fine resin minis, even if they've caught the Kickstarter craze . My impression was indeed that the savrar were chopped up into more pieces than necessary - the arms are the ones that were the most noticeable, with several having upper arm, lower arm, and separate weapon . The head of one of the savrar, while awesome, came in 4 separate pieces (upper jaw, left frill, right frill, lower jaw on the main body).
So, my (hopefully constructive!) feedback, would be to emphasize final product over production time. You continue to choose incredible sculptors, and I've gotten tons of compliments on these sculpts, I just want the choices made on cutting up and producing the models to be in line with the sculptors - that of a premium product, rather than one that is faster/easier to produce.
Once again, thanks for coming on and reading the feedback on here
that of a premium product, rather than one that is faster/easier to produce.
To be fair some of the Savrar pieces could have been in less pieces - Eikovra's cheek frills shouldn't have been separate - I Just took a look at the cuts info and they weren't meant to be like that, sometimes a sculptor might make a cut he thinks necc though as he has the sculpt in hand in 3d form rather than a 2d photo that we have to work from (also we speak a different language to the majority of our sculptors and some errors have been made before now due to the language barrier) - though an open mouthed jaw (with any sort of interior to the mouth and teeth) should always be separated into upper and lower jaws - there's a balance to be had - a scratched mould makes for terrible quality all round. And if you need to remould too soon, people have to wait longer.
Though I do feel that your experience with the Savrar would be less frustrating had you only had to assemble one of each (but good on you for ordering loads of them! We remember your order along with comments of 'this guy's a nutter!' ) - we never intended for people to assemble many of these guys (multiples of the same task tends to be more work after all!) . We make minis in as few components as possible whilst retaining quality and lifespan of a mould - especially with rank and file. Some of our minis of course, are one complete cast, we don't part for the sake of it. (it is more work in other areas, more time making a mould and more moulds vs a longer lifespan, there's a tightrope to walk)
By and large the Savrar are the exception that proves the rule- especially with man-sized (ish) figures. Some of our most exquisite foot figures are typically 3-5 components , I have Knutr on my desk right now, an awesome mini - 5 parts, one of them is his optional beer stein - that's less than some GW plastic rank and file minis. And he's as highly detailed and exquisite as they come. Sathach is 3 pieces.
I think the Savrar issue clouds your view a little. Look at the range as a whole - the Savrar are 3 minis of over 100 human sized 30mm minis. They aren't indicative of our range as a whole and have separate issues related to them (curved tails, spikes/frills, open jaws) . But they are first and foremost character models meant for single use, not repetitive rank and file. Take away the Savrar - & is there an issue with the minis being in too many parts compared to similar minis of their type? I would say no.
At the end of the day - we do know what we're doing and are highly experienced at resin production. We make tens of thousands of resin casts per year. We don't tend to invent cuts for the sake of it (just yesterday I persuaded a sculptor to keep the ears on a monster model as he thought they needed to be removed) though I would agree with you that the Savrar are a tricky bunch but not the range as a whole. Next time I work on their moulds I'll look at reducing the amount of parts to the Savrar and look at the assembly pegs.
Thanks for the feedback - see, we bear it in mind! :0)
Most of the time a resin caster won't even be involved in the parts process (most of them act as 3rd parties) so you will often find that they start swearing when they get the sculpted parts in a bag (I've seen this happen, I know a few of these guys ) and accept that their moulds will burn out sooner leading to more work for them and likely a higher cost for the casts as there will be an increase in the moulding cost.
That matches my experiences as a caster pretty much exactly.
I do agree with RiTides a bit, but short putting some parts back together before molding there isn't a lot you can do once they are in hand. Then again, I have done that myself, so maybe it is something to think about for the future?
Thanks again for the insight into the process, it is always exciting to see how things get made! (Or told about it in some detail )
I agree, fantastic response, thanks for all the insight and also for taking on the feedback . It definitely puts my mind more at ease knowing you're aware of all this / thinking about it / etc! Nice to see that Wehrkind posted here since he is the casting expert that I go to for things like this, since we're somewhat local. Will have to bring a few of these models in a week or so when we're getting together to get his take in-person
So yes, thank you very much for taking the time to listen to all these thoughts and to post here!
Ahead of Mierceday tomorrow, a load of new stuffs appeared on pre-order on the Mierce Website:
What's New for 2015!
With Christmas almost upon us, it's time to unveil what you could be getting your hands on in January... for we have eight more releases from Darklands: First Edition a few days into the new year, one for each kindred!
This is the fourth set of releases from that project and we have some absolute crackers this month. First up, for the Albainn, we have Itaina, an Umaer of Dun Durn for the Albainn; for the Angelcynn, Aldhelm, a Sceop or storyteller; for the Brythoniaid, the mighty Angedern, a Prifdyndraig; for the Byzantii, our first Dromedus or camel-man, Djiuzu; for the Fomoraic, the awesome Gaarwäg, our first Mammax or mammoth-man; for the Khthones we have Myrkranio, a sorcerer of the Sávrar; for the Norse, the runesmith Víthar, an Erilaz; and finally for the Ysians, Gondard of Karaez the Flesh-Drune and his Nithing, Ekk, have arrived.
Unfortunately, just like the previous releases this year, thanks to us being busier than busy bees we've just not had the time to get the release art and descriptions done; but you can still see some good images of each miniature on the website of course.
There's another release for the Albainn this month in the excellent form of Itaina, an Umaer of Dun Durn armed with a sword and crossbow. Sculpted by Olivier Nkweti from the artwork by Sam Lamont, and painted by Martin Grandbarbe.
Aldhelm is a sceop, a storyteller, who acts as a host herald for the Miercna and is a great way to inspire your warriors both before and during a battle. Painted by Martin Grandbarbe and sculpted by a newcomer to our range, Christian Hardy, from the artwork by Des Hanley.
With the Dyndraig available for a while now, it was about time we brought you a Dyndraig warchief - so here he is... Angedern, a mighty Prifdyndraig of Gwaelod! Sculpted by Roberto Chaudon from the artwork by Dan Warren, and painted by Sébastien Picque.
Here's something new - a camel-man, a Dromedus, for the Byzantii! Djiuzu is a warchief, too, a Dromedus Secundus, and will be a great addition to your Byzantii host once the Dromedii are sculpted. Djiuzu was sculpted by Roberto Chaudon from the artwork by Christophe Madura, and painted by Sébastien Picque.
Gaarwäg is a monster... quite literally, as he stands on an 80mm base and is around the same tall! He's a Mammax, a mammoth-man, and is thus huge both in terms of miniature and in terms of Darklands the game. This superb Fomoraic creature was sculpted by another newcomer to our range - the fantastic Patrick Masson - from the artwork by Christophe Madura, and he was painted by Sébastien Picque.
Another Sávrar or lizard-man is here for the Khthones, and this time a Sávrargos, a sorcerer, in the shape of Myrkranio. Sculpted by Roberto Chaudon from the artwork by Christophe Madura and painted brilliantly by Sébastien Picque.
Another masterpiece by Allan Carrasco, Víthar is a superb sculpt for the Norse. Víthar is a sorcerer, an Erilaz, and will certainly help to keep your Norse going strong on the battlefield as well as look fantastic. Sculpted from the artwork by Danny Cruz and painted by Martin Grandbarbe.
Gondard is a Flesh-Drune, a shaper of flesh, a warrior that can create other warriors from the bits and pieces strewn around the battlefield. Sculpted by Stéphane Simon from artwork by Danny Cruz, and painted by Martin Grandbarbe, Gondard works hand-in-hand with his Nithing, Ekk.
Again sculpted by Stéphane Simon from artwork by Danny Cruz, and painted by Martin Grandbarbe, Ekk the Nithing fetches the bits and pieces of flesh and hoof and horn so that his master, Gondard, can create all sorts of weird and wonderful things for the Ysian general.
All of the releases above will be officially released on the 3rd of January 2015, but you can pre-order them now from this very website to your heart's content!
It's the first Friday update for Darklands: New Kindreds for a little while, but it's a cracker nonetheless!
Oh, and...
MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!
This week we have:
sculpt work in progress updates from Yannick Hennebo;
an updated list of sculptors and sculpts for this project;
UPDATED, downloadable versions of the current QuickStarter Rules, Muster Rules and Kindred Musters;
anything else you can expect from us over the next few months.
Let's begin!
The only sculpt we have this week is by Yannick Hennebo - but it's very cool indeed...
In order to sculpt Equitus Durio on foot for Darklands: First Edition, Yannick Hennebo has sculpted Bareheaded Equitus Durio first... and why not?
Bareheaded Equitus will certainly make it into Wave 7!
Wave 0 - for existing miniatures - has begun, and we'll be combining them with Wave 3 and Wave 4 shipment waves where appropriate. We do expect that Wave 0 shipments will continue into January and February, however - and as always, we respectfully ask that you remain patient. We're going as fast as we can!
Other than that, it's obviously a while until Wave 7 begins so there's not much to say here; just keep watching the updates and sometime in 2015 will give you a more precise list of what miniatures will make it into what wave.
We'll keep this list updated every Friday.
SHIPMENT WAVE 0: (beginning November 2014 and continuing into 2015, depending on how many orders there are): Existing miniatures.
SHIPMENT WAVE 7 (beginning June 2015): New Kindred Infantry Starter Hosts - New Kindred Monstrous Infantry Starter Hosts - Other Kindred Infantry Starter Hosts - Other Kindred Monstrous Infantry Starter Hosts (except those listed elsewhere) - Sáthach on Horse - Danilo Cruz on Horse - Stígr - Taai-ac - New Kindred Specials - New Kindred Sorcerers - Thacaldān
SHIPMENT WAVE 8 (August 2015): Gungonn's Brood - Bronn ap Banbronn - Cqaa - Aggrakk - Gaanh - Gudhlagg - Nikandros - Caitrín - Mildryth
SHIPMENT WAVE 9 (October 2015): Nervor - Vul IX Muyya - Iqqud - Egil Dead Hand - Torleik
Items in bold will DEFINITELY be sent in that wave as we have the sculpt; items in italics are in progress and should make it into that wave, but we don't yet have the sculpt.
Here's the big list of who's sculpting what and when for Darklands: First Edition II! Please bear in mind that this list may change over time, so don't take it as set in stone until the first work in progress shots appear.
We've split the lists into completely new sculpts and alterations to make life easier for us all!
New Sculpts:
OLIVIER BOUCHET: Olivier will sculpt Gudhlagg, the Albainn Oghur Uhmaer.
ALLAN CARRASCO: Allan will be sculpting Mórannach for the Érainn and Torleik for the Norse.
ROBERTO CHAUDON: already loaded up, we've tried not to give too much to Roberto and failed miserably. He has Titos, Dynatos and The Burning Ones, Mesokolossus Unit for the Atalantes; Gungonn's Brood, Dynwocor Unit and Bronn ap Banbronn for the Brythoniaid; Vul IX Muyya, Dromedus Unit and Iqqud for the Byzantii; and Egil Dead Hand for the Norse.
BENOÎT COSSE: we've given Benoît Taai-ac for the Fomoraic and Aggrakk for the Khthones.
FANCAGNE DIDIER: a newcomer to Darklands, Didier will be sculpting Araigh, the Beasts of Síleann Fen and Cúlaítar for the Érainn, and Cqaa for the Fomoraic.
YANNICK HENNEBO: Yannick will sculpt three Érainn miniatures, Nuala, Caitrín and Sáthach on Horse, for this project.
ARAGORN MARKS: Aragorn will sculpt Gol Gul, Wihtwald and Heldred as well as the The Dead of Black Barrow, Wihtgar Unit and The Malign of Alum Tomb, Drēaguth Unit. All for the Jutes!
PATRICK MASSON: Excitingly, Patrick will sculpt Gaanh of the Fomoraic!
HECTOR MORAN: Hector has been booked up with most of the Atalantes, including Kyros , Thera, Hektor , Nikandros, the Ilios Guard, Oplites Unit and Kretos; and he's also got Nervor for the Byzantii on his plate.
JUAN NAVARRO PÉREZ: he'll be sculpting Danilo Cruz on Horse for the Visigoths.
STÉPHANE SIMON: we've given Stéphane Eormanræd, Ætulla and Mildryth, all Jute sculpts.
ERNST VEINGART: Ernst will sculpt Stígr of the Norse for us!
VALENTIN ZAK: Valentin has taken on some Érainn - specifically Rudraige the Fat, Cormac of the Red Hand and the Men of Clochar, Tuanagh Unit - for us.
Unknown: none.
Alterations:
OLIVIER BOUCHET: Olivier has Hammer-Brugg to alter plus any alterations to the Oghur, Brute and Abhorrent units.
STÉPHANE CAMOSSETO: Stéphane will sort out Shieldwall Eadric and any alterations to the Werwulfas, Trolls and Srónax (the latter two because Allan is so busy).
ALLAN CARRASCO: Allan will produce Leaping Creoda, Spike Qaano, Jörmungand Two Axe, Great Axe Thórrir, Ravenhelm Víthar and Bareheaded Knútr.
ROBERTO CHAUDON: any alterations to his sculpts, including Titos Sigma, Dragonshield Angedern, Armoured Mag ap Mag, Armoured Djiuzu, Frenzied Srók , Cleaver Mälmord, Armoured Hrókr and Talos Delta . There's also alterations to units for him - to the Dyndraig, Dynwocor, Dromedus and Fiend units.
DAN COCKERSELL: just the one for Dan - Armoured Scecchus !
BENOÎT COSSE: we've given Benoît any alternates of his miniatures, so that's Armoured Cearl, Warrior Daachuch , Greathorn Ckaarakk and Armoured Brunchaath. He'll also alter the Gabrax, Krokodar and Tarvax units.
THOMAS DAVID: Thomas has just Archer Sthena to do!
FANCAGNE DIDIER: any alterations to his own work, so Grisly Araigh; and Dairdubh.
YANNICK FUSIER: Yannick will sort out Bloody Bagseg and make any alterations to the Oghu Keepers, Oghurithne Unit.
JACQUES-ALEXANDRE GILLOIS: The awesome JAG will produce Helmed Daarkan and Warrior Tundaar for us.
CHRISTIAN HARDY: Just the two alternates for Christian - Unmasked Velchior and Warrior Aldhelm!
YANNICK HENNEBO: He's begun work on Bareheaded Equitus and then there's just Masked Nuala for the alternates.
ARAGORN MARKS: Aragorn has Mutated Cormorágg to do and will also sort the Wihtgar alternates.
HECTOR MORAN: As well as Helmed Kyros, Helmed Thera and Helmed Hektor, Hector will digitally alter anything he's done, so that's Bareheaded Quintus and the three Legionary alterations. Oh, and the alterations to the Gorgórar unit.
STÉPHANE NGUYEN: Claw-Seza and Hammer-Druc are the sum of Stéphane's work for this project.
OLIVIER NKWETI: Olivier will produce Armoured Dúngal and Skullcap Domnech, along with alterations to the units he's already sculpted - the Teulu, Warriors of Baalor, Gairlom and Rhyfelwyr.
JUAN NAVARRO PÉREZ: Juan will sculpt Bowman Urien and Warrior Ffion for this project, and produce alterations for the Duguth and Ax-Drunes.
STÉPHANE SIMON: As he's sculpted so many miniatures for us, he's got a lot of alterations, too. He'll sort out Helmed Eormanræd, Bareheaded Ætulla, Helmed Ophios, Magma Svrill, Sickle-Annik , Ax-Jowan , Spike-Gondard and Cynuise of Old, plus any alterations to his units - the Holumenn and Gesithas plus the Gorgonar.
VALENTIN ZAK: Valentin will sort Helmed Rudraige, Cormac on Gabrax and the alternates for the Tuanaghta.
Unknown: We don't yet know who will produce Dagger-Kernuor, Warrior Wulfhere, Wulf Skull Cynemon, Warrior Hywel Hir, Warrior Kjartan and the Sword-Melusine alterations.
Tons of sculpts and alterations!
Let us know if we've missed anything, of course...
It shouldn't be too long before he's complete, so we reckon he'll definitely be a Wave 5 shipment!
Roberto Chaudon has of course now completed the Corpse Takers, but here's a few parts shots for you all. It'll be the last images from Roberto for a while, as he's off on holiday until well into January. He deserves a rest, we think!
Here' s Ormrinn's components...
That base is going to be amazing! Whether it will fit in a blister pack is another matter, however... hmmm. It may have to be cut a little more...
The lovely Agni's components are here.
She looks great!
There's Oddr's components, too...
His pose is fantastic!
Let's not forget Kolskári, who was completed a little while ago...
...and that's yer lot! Missing you already, Roberto...
Wave 4 shipments have begun!
Please bear in mind that Wave 4 shipments will continue from December into January and probably February 2015. We will try to get everything out as soon as we can, but there's a lot to ship - and as always we will prioritise orders in date order; i.e., if you ordered early, you'll get your stuff sent early. Plus, there's Christmas to contend with!
What we're saying, basically, is - please be patient! We are doing everything as fast as we can.
Last Posting Days Before Christmas
As always at this time of year, shipping times become longer until we get into January and the backlog is worked through.
In terms of "last shipping dates", here's Royal Mail's document giving you dates in full:
Royal Mail Christmas Shipping Dates
In short, you're looking at last posting dates, for normal airmail anyway, of:
Asia / Far East / New Zealand - 3 December
Australia - 4 December
Cyprus, Eastern Europe, Greece - 8 December
Canada, Poland - 9 December
USA - 12 December
Europe - 13 December
UK - 18 December (second class).
UK - 19 December (first or recorded).
It often happens that packages are delivered after those dates but before Christmas, of course, so there's always hope.
All we ask of you guys, really, is that - again - you remain patient over the festive period, your package will arrive in January if not before!
UPS Shipping
There is a possibility of using UPS to ship your package, which can be 2-3 days, but be warned - this will be expensive and we must ask for that shipping cost before we ship your items. Simply ask for details (by sending an e-mail to kickstarter@mierce-miniatures.com) if you're really impatient for your stuff or need it for a present or something!
With Wave 4 items now shipping, it is time to remind you all that ALL Wave 4 items will be removed from the Kickstarter category on the 15th of December.
In a nutshell:
Wave 4 items will be removed from the Mierce Miniatures website at midnight (GMT) on the 15th of December, which is only three days away!
The following items will be removed from the website:
ALBAINN: Oghu Guardians (Grubog - Pabogg - Drudd - Skrugadd - Undagg) - Skyclad Ciniod - Skyclad Itaina - Gromi (Gromi - Gromi with two cleavers - Armoured Gromi with two cleavers) - Gomagg
ANGELCYNN: Sweordsman Timoth - Cæna
BRYTHONIAID: Forwyn Carys
BYZANTII: Feral Agathae - Tykho
FOMORAIC: Helmed Naraa - Marked Galagaak
INFERNII: Craven Fiends of Dis (Kaius - Drubal - Bacchus - Kolkhus - Luco)
NORSE: Trolls of Töheim, Armoured Troll Unit (Vörtun, Gjöll, Unnolg, Gurrir, Nisurl)
VRAS: Kill-Head Flint-Fang
YSIANS: Akkaz
SELL-SWORDS: Sáthach - Uhtred on Horse
You will only see these items in the webstore if you have backed this project, of course.
After December 15th, you'll have to wait until they're released!
If you don't purchase any Wave 4 items you'd like by December the 15th, you won't be able to purchase them again until they are released to the general public, and - depending on the miniature involved - that could be for a long while yet! Plus, they'll be at full price of course.
What are you waiting for? Grab those Wave 4 items now!
Today is the last update before 2015, as of course - it's Christmas!
The boys have added a few more festive images since last week!
It's been a little while since the last update, but here's another to tide you over till next time! This week we have:
sculpt work in progress updates from Aragorn Marks;
a list of what miniatures should be sent in Wave 5 and later Waves, and when Wave 5 will occur;
a list of sculptors and sculpts for this project;
downloadable versions of the current QuickStarter Rules, Muster Rules and Kindred Musters;
news of something special coming in January...
...and anything else you can expect from us over the next few months.
Let's begin!
Ciniod on Aurogg
Aragorn Marks's shed is getting a bit of hammer, as his beavering away has resulted in a fantastic addition to the Albainn range...
Oso has been completed for a while, of course, but Aragorn has now completed Ciniod on Aurogg... and whilst his photos are a little iffy, it's a cracking sculpt and no mistake!
Let us remind ourselves how big the Aurogg actually is, too...
Brilliant! This does of course mean that Ciniod on Aurogg will be a Wave 5 shipment!
Now that's a treeman....
It's Christmas Time
Good morning everyone!
Today is the last update before 2015, as of course - it's Christmas!
The boys have added a few more festive images since last week!
This week we have:
sculpt work in progress updates from Didier Fancagne;
an updated list of sculptors and sculpts for this project;
downloadable versions of the current QuickStarter Rules, Muster Rules and Kindred Musters;
news of something special coming in January...
...and anything else you can expect from us over the next few months.
Let's begin!
Araigh
We have just the one sculpt for you all this week, and it's by a total newcomer to our range, Didier Fancagne. It's no less awesome for all that!
It's relatively early days yet, but the general size and shape of Araigh can be seen here. He's looking lovely, and once the textures are sorted, he'll be a fantastic miniature!
Here's an early scale shot...
Hopefully Araigh will make it into Wave 7!
Something Mighty This Way Comes...
Lastly, but certainly not leastly, we have news of something fantastic happening in January, that is not Darklands...
We'll have more news on that next time!
Have a great Christmas and New Year holiday everyone!
But a "not Darklands" Kickstarter in January called "Mighty Monsters", when the "actual Darklands" (and supposed to be fast turn-around) Kickstarter of "Monstrous Mounts" won't have even started delivering...
Not to mention, Mounstrous Mounts is supposed to completely deliver in Wave 5 / February (except for one sculpt), but only two of the sculpts have been started, and only one finished.
I'm not sure how much I can say, but I'm confident that Mighty Monsters won't hugely impact the production of any Darklands models currently in process, it's something that neatly dove tails with the ongoing models and shouldn't clash with them in any way.
I'd also prefer if Banebeasts was moved a bit further out. Correct me if I'm wrong, but January is the cut off month for all the New Kindred starter hosts. I'm hoping that gets extended, as we'll have next to no sculpts done at that point, and typically we have had longer for previous KS's. But if so, I wont be tossing more than the minimum required to access the pledge manager.
January's just a terrible time all around for hobby spending. You're recovering from Christmas/the holidays and at least for me the friggin homeowners association comes around for their pound of flesh, so there's another $800 or so gone from the kitty. 1st world problems I know, but still terrible timing.
Could a company ever say differently? At some point, people are just going to have to vote with their wallets... they're clearly going to continue this cycle as long as it is making them money hand over fist, but I would absolutely never back a second campaign from a company while waiting on another to deliver. Too many things like the Drake the dragon miniatures fiasco result from that, with companies getting in too deep and having to commit too far out.
This is not just a campaign for existing sculpts, right? There is a Lot still left to be sculpted for their several campaigns with fulfillment-in-progress.
Probably not, since all of the previous KS have already 'paid for' the necessary sculptors and should already be set in their respective schedules.
Still, it will certainly bring out the "Argh, Grrr, Another KS Before the Previous KS(s) Have Shipped!" brigade.
Or, in other words:
All kidding aside, it is a somewhat valid criticism, but then Mierce has already said that, for better or worse, they are a 'Kickstarter Company' for now, so it certainly shouldn't be surprising!
Alpharius wrote: All kidding aside, it is a somewhat valid criticism, but then Mierce has already said that, for better or worse, they are a 'Kickstarter Company' for now, so it certainly shouldn't be surprising!
I agree, they've made it clear and it's not surprising.
However, I'm being totally serious here. Although I absolutely love their sculpts, given Mierce's business history, I find it hard to believe that the money from prior campaigns is totally kept in silos untouched, and not pooled for whatever the company needs/expenses are. There is a bit of a merry-go-round / chaining together of campaigns to keep the ship afloat, or at least that is the appearance from the outside. And obviously, no one wants to be without a chair when the music stops (i.e. the stream of continual new Kickstarter funding).
I know it's known to those of us who follow this, but I absolutely am wary about pledging for items projected really far out.
In other words, it is worrying how they are ramping up their "rate" of launching Kickstarters to continue funding the company:
1st campaign Feb 2013
2nd campaign Oct 2013 (8 month gap)
3rd campaign Apr 2014 (6 month gap)
4th campaign Jul 2014 (3 month gap)
5th campaign Oct 2014 (3 month gap)
Projected 6th campaign: Jan 2015 (3 month gap)
It doesn't really matter if they say this is normal, what matters is what their customers think... so far, they are supporting the cycle, but it just seems to be a dangerous place to be in since they really can't project how much they will raise in these campaigns, and have greatly increased their rate of launching them this year.
RiTides wrote: Could a company ever say differently? At some point, people are just going to have to vote with their wallets... they're clearly going to continue this cycle as long as it is making them money hand over fist, but I would absolutely never back a second campaign from a company while waiting on another to deliver. Too many things like the Drake the dragon miniatures fiasco result from that, with companies getting in too deep and having to commit too far out.
This is not just a campaign for existing sculpts, right? There is a Lot still left to be sculpted for their several campaigns with fulfillment-in-progress.
The Banebeasts might be for some mashup sculpts, like Proteanc or the price of flies guys that were made mainly from Darklands parts. If so, that would probably be minimal impact, as they only need specific parts sculpted/tweaked rather than make entire new sculpts. Particularly if they give it to Aragorn Marks, who seems to work super fast. The alt sculpts probably brought them a ton of money in the last KS, and most of those were essentially just a new weapon/head option for an already paid for sculpt/mold.
It seems a bit odd to go back to Banebeasts when Darklands is expanding so nicely. Maybe there's a couple of sculpts they are jonesing to do that just dont fit (Half elf weredwarves!!)
I suspect they will aim the banebeasts more directly at the counts as market, people with money to spend who've not thought of getting anything for darklands
so I expect to see some pretty direct 'use this as...',
plus as Bossk_Hogg says I would not be at all surprised to see a significant degree or re-use of existing stuff
(they've said they don't expect this to appeal to all of their Darklands customers),
I agree with RiTides here. I haven't been following this super closely because the pace is pretty slow and apparently my werewolves are far away, but that itself is sort of a good reason not to start a new KS. There was a big kickstatrter with all new units and such, then another huge KS with all the new kindreds that is still grinding along, then another for monsters, and now this one. It seems like they are just getting farther and farther behind.
Now, if they want to switch to a KS every 3 months fulfilling in less than a year because it is nice and small model, that's awesome. I really like those sorts of set ups. However, you can't really switch to that sort of thing while leaving a long, year plus long campaign out there.
I'm also with RiTides here. I've received several huge piles of Mierce resin, which I'm very happy with, but I'm still waiting on a few things from First Edition (KS2), a big haul of "All the units" from First Edition II (KS3) and then there are the Monstrous Mounts (KS4). New Kindreds (KS5) actually started making me feel iffy about the whole thing, and as nice as everything looked I ended up pledging for only the £10 minimum amount. If there's another KS in January I think I'll have to pass.
To be honest the reopening of the old projects also make me feel slightly weary. I dunno, I just feel I'm being milked too hard and my teets are getting sore, I guess.
Alpharius wrote: All kidding aside, it is a somewhat valid criticism, but then Mierce has already said that, for better or worse, they are a 'Kickstarter Company' for now, so it certainly shouldn't be surprising!
I agree, they've made it clear and it's not surprising.
However, I'm being totally serious here. Although I absolutely love their sculpts, given Mierce's business history, I find it hard to believe that the money from prior campaigns is totally kept in silos untouched, and not pooled for whatever the company needs/expenses are. There is a bit of a merry-go-round / chaining together of campaigns to keep the ship afloat, or at least that is the appearance from the outside. And obviously, no one wants to be without a chair when the music stops (i.e. the stream of continual new Kickstarter funding).
I know it's known to those of us who follow this, but I absolutely am wary about pledging for items projected really far out.
In other words, it is worrying how they are ramping up their "rate" of launching Kickstarters to continue funding the company:
1st campaign Feb 2013
2nd campaign Oct 2013 (8 month gap)
3rd campaign Apr 2014 (6 month gap)
4th campaign Jul 2014 (3 month gap)
5th campaign Oct 2014 (3 month gap)
Projected 6th campaign: Jan 2015 (3 month gap)
It doesn't really matter if they say this is normal, what matters is what their customers think... so far, they are supporting the cycle, but it just seems to be a dangerous place to be in since they really can't project how much they will raise in these campaigns, and have greatly increased their rate of launching them this year.
Regardless of their motivations behind it, it is normal, that's how companies work.
All that said, if you guy's speculation is right that it's modifications of existing sculpts, that is less workload (but not necessarily less milking as Trodax puts it) and so may be less of an issue than it otherwise would be.
And Wehrkind, I love smaller scope campaigns too (it's part of what got me into backing the monstrous mounts one!). But you're right, they seem to be adding those while concurrently running / fulfilling the huge scope ones.
I'll be happy enough to wait and see how this goes, but hopefully Mierce is reading and sees from the response here that there is a limit to how many unfinished campaigns they can/should be running at once. I'll still be oggling the monsters, of course even if it's just modified existing ones. And maybe even looking to buy at retail, as again I do absolutely love their sculpts! Just don't want the cart to be put before the horse here is all.
Edit - Baragash, for sales, of course, but that's not what I was talking about in that quote.
Azreal13 wrote: I'm not sure how much I can say, but I'm confident that Mighty Monsters won't hugely impact the production of any Darklands models currently in process, it's something that neatly dove tails with the ongoing models and shouldn't clash with them in any way.
Absolutely! It's totally separate from Darklands...
Bossk_Hogg wrote: The Banebeasts might be for some mashup sculpts, like Proteanc or the price of flies guys that were made mainly from Darklands parts. If so, that would probably be minimal impact, as they only need specific parts sculpted/tweaked rather than make entire new sculpts.
Yea, you've got it about right there.
Bossk_Hogg wrote: It seems a bit odd to go back to Banebeasts when Darklands is expanding so nicely. Maybe there's a couple of sculpts they are jonesing to do that just dont fit (Half elf weredwarves!!)
To be honest, it's basically because Tim's been begging me to do it for ages and I've finally succumbed to his thumbscrews... this is Tim's thing, it's something he really, really wants to do and I think if we don't do it soon he'll explode. So here it is...
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: I suspect they will aim the banebeasts more directly at the counts as market, people with money to spend who've not thought of getting anything for darklands
so I expect to see some pretty direct 'use this as...',
plus as Bossk_Hogg says I would not be at all surprised to see a significant degree or re-use of existing stuff
(they've said they don't expect this to appeal to all of their Darklands customers),
we shall no doubt see
You certainly will, and you're about right there Orlando, as always ;o)
Cheers
Rob
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Baragash wrote: Regardless of their motivations behind it, it is normal, that's how companies work.
It's certainly how we work - we've said it before, and we'll say it again, we're a Kickstarter company. Expect one every three months from here on in regardless of previous fulfilment - small ones mind; new kindreds is the last big one for a while.
At the end of the day, if you don't like how we operate, don't back our projects. It's not as if we force anybody to do anything.
Baragash wrote: Regardless of their motivations behind it, it is normal, that's how companies work.
It's certainly how we work - we've said it before, and we'll say it again, we're a Kickstarter company.
Well, I meant in terms that companies have to have overlapping product cycles with products at all stages of the cycle from conception through to prototyping through to manufacturing through to launch (and not that it applies in Mierce's case but through to obsolescence and discontinuation) so that they have a steady flow of products to market (and efficient use of the production chain, though as Mierce outsources art and sculpting that's less relevant).
Mierce Miniatures wrote: Expect one every three months from here on in regardless of previous fulfilment
Well, it's good to have the trend confirmed, at least! I was surprised when compiling the dates that the last 3 had been in 3 month increments, but that is apparently quite intentional, after all.
It will be interesting to see if this model works for Mierce. A number of companies run frequent campaigns, but most are for varied offerings (for instance, Mantic's scifi then board game then fantasy campaigns, or the various CMON ones). This would be as or more frequent, but for items from the same line (basically quarterly releases). I just think it's interesting to discuss (since this is the relevant place to do so) from an overall perspective.
I think smaller, more frequent projects is a really good way to go, and am glad you guys are going in that direction. Thanks for coming over to explain it all to us!
I am also glad that the next campaign is going to be a very small, manageable one. I have seen too many KS campaigns get so bogged down by their success that they have a hell of a time getting things fulfilled, and I don't want that to be Mierce's fate!
I'm totally fine with smaller, specifically themed or focused campaigns. Limited in scope is never a bad thing.
I'm just waiting to see some reptiles get sculpted. All we ever see are dirty, hairy, scraggly -bearded man- apes or feathered warrior poultry these days!
I guess if you're running a campaign or two for the likes of them, at least I can save a few bucks for the brotherhood of scales and claws.
I've backed 4 of the 5 Mierce Kickstarters and I've got literally 95% or more of the stuff I ordered in my posession (a decent amount of stuff too, spent maybe £800?), though admittedly I did purposely order existing stuff from this latest Mierce KS. Compare this to the other KS I've backed, Creature Caster, where they only have to make 5 or 6 sculpts, are already way behind schedule, and have left me feeling like I won't back any of their future projects.
Doubtful I'll be in on a January Mierce KS unless I can get stuff that I missed from the Summer 2015 wave, 5 months is about as long as I'll wait on a KS fulfillment at this point, liable to change my mind though.
I agree, Mierce has fulfilled their campaigns really well (I'm in Creature Caster, too) and smaller campaigns in general are great. Ideally with a shorter lead time, although I'm not sure if that will be the case here due to the backlog.
But I wonder, does this mean that they'll always be a "Kickstarter Company", unable to really effectively get into retail channels in a meaningful way?
If Kickstarter is where all the new releases go first, where customers can get the best pricing, and also get deep discounts on existing stock, will distributors and retailers ever really get into Darklands?
I hope so - I want the game to grow and thrive, and I want to be able to find games somewhat easily and somewhat locally!
I do not fault Mierce for using Kickstarter at all. However I DO think they should at least have fulfilled all but the most recent of their efforts before coming back to fund more stuff yet again. That has become my rule for RBG anyway....maybe that is a bad idea considering the degree to which I restrict my success with that rule given the examples of CMoN and Mierce and Mantic.
You really cannot blame people for doing what works. And though I do not particularly take the same attitude per-se Rob is right if you don't like it then don't fund them.
That said..........It is not unreasonable for people to look askance when a company is back at the well with such a hefty debt of confidence and commitments yet to be fulfilled. I won't fault anyone for doign what works as often as they can BUT when a company is asking a lot and making a lot of money which in turn makes it more difficult for me to make money in the same business it pisses me off if that company also has a LOT of commitment yet to fulfill and runs purely on the confidence of their customers. That DOES make it harder for the rest of us who do deliver on what we promise promptly. When you make $10,000.00 on a Treant that is $10,000.00 I will not make on a treant, which is all fine and dandy as long as that Treant is delivered promptly and you don't come back asking for more money for now a set fo dragons which won't deliver for months yet again.
And the idea that fulfilling a few of the commitments mitigates the severity of risk of future commitments being fulfilled......there are PLENTY of examples where that is proven to be anything BUT true.
Kickstarter is where the rubber meets the road people. It is the forefront of the future of the industry.
Reward what you want to see more of.
Don't fall for the hype.
Believe the results even when people claim to have dug up a pod of magic beans ( I have been there ). Believe existing examples ONLY, if someone has discovered some revolutionary new process or product they will have EXAMPLES to show you. NOT prototype representatives in other materials or renders.
In many ways, smaller targeted KS from Mierce make it easier. Right now almost every KS has had something I've wanted. If that changes, then maybe I throw less money at them.
Id also like to echo the sentiment that closing out KS need to happen faster if they are going to up the frequency of KS campaigns. Then again I'm part of the problem as I tossed in for another Sweet Spot Reward level, prolonging the fulfillment of that whole campaign.
Another thought to ponder is the rule book promised back in KS2. If every 3 months a new batch of things will be added to Darklands, the rule book becomes obsolete every 3-6 months depending on how many new special rules will be introduced. My biggest gripe with GWs sudden frantic pace, and my final exit from 40k, is that its impossible to keep up with all the new rules/formations/dataslates. I don't have unlimited funds and I don't like spending all of them on trying to keep abreast of the most recent rules additions.
Will faction Musters remain free downloads? Could they be made prominent on the Mierce website? Currently I have to dig through all the emails to find the most current update links and there was talk about no longer doing the weekly KS updates. If the Friday emails go away, and the core rule book goes out of date 3 months after it goes to print, where will the most recent rules be published?
Is there an end state for each faction? It seems Rob and crew always have more sketches and more options for each faction but will there be a point that say, the Byzantii are complete? I know asking for a complete faction is silly when others like the Vras have hardly nothing but it would be nice to see a core group of 4-6 (based on current sales/number of units already produced?) factions be completed before all sorts of other units get added.
But I wonder, does this mean that they'll always be a "Kickstarter Company", unable to really effectively get into retail channels in a meaningful way?
If Kickstarter is where all the new releases go first, where customers can get the best pricing, and also get deep discounts on existing stock, will distributors and retailers ever really get into Darklands?
I hope so - I want the game to grow and thrive, and I want to be able to find games somewhat easily and somewhat locally!
I think the big thing is they want to get a fairly extensive range of models released as quickly as possible. If they were to try and release models as a "We have the funds from retail to produce 1-2 models a month, we would see a much slower growth. I feel that once all of the factions are really fleshed out, things will slow a bit and move to the more established distribution lanes.
I do not fault Mierce for using Kickstarter at all. However I DO think they should at least have fulfilled all but the most recent of their efforts before coming back to fund more stuff yet again. That has become my rule for RBG anyway....maybe that is a bad idea considering the degree to which I restrict my success with that rule given the examples of CMoN and Mierce and Mantic.
Their operation is slightly different than yours however. You do all your own sculpting (correct me if I'm wrong), so you're more limited in what you can add to your queue. Plus you work for yourself. If you want to get some sculpts in, you do them. With Mierce, they run with freelancers, the best in the biz... including yourself! I just painted up Erebius and I'd love to see some more of your work turn up. They have a wide group of a dozen or so regulars, but those guys will take on other commissions, leaving them unavailable. In order to have money in the pipe lined up to effectively keep them on staff, they need to bring it in early. Otherwise they may get snapped up, leaving Mierce with a 6 month stretch of not having access to them while the line stays stagnant.
What I would like to see is them expanding their casting capabilities at some point to get into retail, as that will help the game grow. I know The Warstore and FRP Games carry Darklands, but restocks are limtied.
abilities at some point to get into retail, as that will help the game grow. I know The Warstore and FRP Games carry Darklands, but restocks are limtied.
Well Element Games in the UK are now carrying what looks to be the entire line so that's another distribution channel open
and if you could ever (reliably) get everything cheaper than their KS prices would any of us really spend what we do on the KS so far ahead?
(it's not like I don't have a lifetimes worth of options to paint already)
those of us who are interested enough in the line get the best discounts via KS and enable those who don't want to take a risk to get a regular stream of new stuff
(I'd be interested to know if the irregular restocks at The Warstore/FRP are down to a capacity issue or perhaps to minimum orders or just those stores not wanting to have a big inventory of what's still a small niche line sitting on their shelves so only ordering 1-2 of something at a time)
Mierce, Please consider adding Merfolk to the Atlantians! No one has done good Merfolk and I honestly believe you guys are the only company that can do them justice.
Mierce Miniatures wrote: It's certainly how we work - we've said it before, and we'll say it again, we're a Kickstarter company. Expect one every three months from here on in regardless of previous fulfilment - small ones mind; new kindreds is the last big one for a while.
Small and focused does sound good, but I really hope you manage to keep them that way. Monstrous Mounts was supposed to be small and short, but it grew fairly large and now, five months out, only two out of the five new big beasts have been sculpted. To be clear, I absolutely have no problem with you guys using Kickstarter, it's just the overlap with previous projects that makes me slightly worried. In January we'll have three projects with substantial portions yet to be fulfilled (First Edition II, Monstrous Mounts, New Kindred); I just think it's a bit much.
Another thing I've thought about in connection to the long string of Kickstarters is the availability of the back catalogue. It's just something I've noticed in myself, a year ago if a sexy new unit (like the Shadow Drunes or whatever) would show up in a KS, I'd rabidly pledge to be able to get them. But today I'm feeling a lot more hard to seduce, because I'm thinking if I don't buy them now there's probably a good chance they'll show up in a later project as part of some host package or whatever (perhaps as a better deal). And in a like manner, if you are a 'Kickstarter company' and repeatedly include the '20% on existing stuff'-deal in your projects, then this is really the benchmark against which all other deals should be compared, instead of the RRP. What I mean is that snagging a monstrous mount for £50 (RRP £60) is suddenly not looking so juicy if I know I could also just wait and buy it at 20% off through a KS a year from now when it's directly available.
I really hate to sound this negative; I love the miniatures and honestly just want Mierce to do well, so I hope my words are taken as constructive criticism rather than an annoying rant.
I'd like to thank Mierce for being the one project creator that doesn't make me feel like I paid to have some dude give me bad news once a week for the next two years, if they can be bothered updating at all.
I know every Friday I get an update on each Mierce Project showing progress what's up to where. I consider Mierce the only company I still use kickstarter for, everyone else can go jump in gak!
Oh, except Secret Weapon, I love mister justin.
Mierce Miniatures wrote: It's certainly how we work - we've said it before, and we'll say it again, we're a Kickstarter company. Expect one every three months from here on in regardless of previous fulfilment - small ones mind; new kindreds is the last big one for a while.
Small and focused does sound good, but I really hope you manage to keep them that way. Monstrous Mounts was supposed to be small and short, but it grew fairly large and now, five months out, only two out of the five new big beasts have been sculpted. To be clear, I absolutely have no problem with you guys using Kickstarter, it's just the overlap with previous projects that makes me slightly worried. In January we'll have three projects with substantial portions yet to be fulfilled (First Edition II, Monstrous Mounts, New Kindred); I just think it's a bit much.
Another thing I've thought about in connection to the long string of Kickstarters is the availability of the back catalogue. It's just something I've noticed in myself, a year ago if a sexy new unit (like the Shadow Drunes or whatever) would show up in a KS, I'd rabidly pledge to be able to get them. But today I'm feeling a lot more hard to seduce, because I'm thinking if I don't buy them now there's probably a good chance they'll show up in a later project as part of some host package or whatever (perhaps as a better deal). And in a like manner, if you are a 'Kickstarter company' and repeatedly include the '20% on existing stuff'-deal in your projects, then this is really the benchmark against which all other deals should be compared, instead of the RRP. What I mean is that snagging a monstrous mount for £50 (RRP £60) is suddenly not looking so juicy if I know I could also just wait and buy it at 20% off through a KS a year from now when it's directly available.
I really hate to sound this negative; I love the miniatures and honestly just want Mierce to do well, so I hope my words are taken as constructive criticism rather than an annoying rant.
No you don't sound negative, You sound honest and realistic. I too want Mierce to achieve their vision. But fair criticism is always the way to help.
I know every Friday I get an update on each Mierce Project showing progress what's up to where. I consider Mierce the only company I still use kickstarter for, everyone else can go jump in gak!
There are a few of us who deliver everything as promised within the span of 3 months you know.
Their operation is slightly different than yours however. You do all your own sculpting (correct me if I'm wrong), so you're more limited in what you can add to your queue. Plus you work for yourself. If you want to get some sculpts in, you do them. With Mierce, they run with freelancers, the best in the biz... including yourself! I just painted up Erebius and I'd love to see some more of your work turn up. They have a wide group of a dozen or so regulars, but those guys will take on other commissions, leaving them unavailable. In order to have money in the pipe lined up to effectively keep them on staff, they need to bring it in early. Otherwise they may get snapped up, leaving Mierce with a 6 month stretch of not having access to them while the line stays stagnant.
Since the Launch of their second KS Mierce have funded the production of THREE HUNDRED SEVENTEEN figures.
THREE. HUNDRED. SEVENTEEN.
That si abotu as far from stagnating as is possible to go. I am not saying that they cannot do it or that they won't deliver it. I am just pointing out that that is a HUGE load fo stuff to be done. And even if they have delivered half of it ( which i am really not sure of what they delivered as I don't really follow the fulfillment. ) they still have a LOT of stuff yet to do.
I still have to make a living. So I DO have to pay myself for the effort of sculpting. Otherwise I might as well work for other people ( Mierce included who, commendably, pay their artists VERY well. NO complaint there. ). The problem with that is that I do not want to work for anyone else AND I make only a fraction of the money working for anyone else as I would working for myself. So I suppose it is an option to allow someone else to interpose themselves between me and the people who like my work taking the lion's share of the profits in the offing, OR I can continue on with my own endeavors following my muses and creating some awesome art and reaping the rewards there of.
Tim and Rob are great to work with and not every artist wants to undertake the huge burden that I do. And those artists are glad to have companies liek Mierce there to provide work for them to do. Mierce DESERVES it's success and respect there of. I just think they should reel it in a little bit and get more of what they have on their plate cleared off before coming back for more.
Yes, my operation is a little different than theirs. The primary difference being that I am a one man show. And while that eliminates* the cost of getting the sculptures made I still need to be able to pay a contractor to make the molds and produce the castings. Which is where Mierce has an advantage being that they eliminate* those costs by producing their product in house.
Do NOT misunderstand me here. I like the Mierce guys a lot. I like what they are producing and I think they have set the bar for communication. I am just pointing out that they have PLENTY to do. I honestly do not think they could put more work on their sculptors for the next 12 months. What happens in that intervening time? They just come back and get more stuff to do and the deliver stretches ever further into the future? At what point do they have enough stuff to do?
And do the rest of us ever get the chance to do anything or do we all have to sit and wait for Mierce or CMoN ( or any other company that runs on concept art ) to come and hire us to make something that we otherwise would have done on our own if the demand had not already been consumed? Not mention hope like hell our audacity has not pissed them off to the point of hating in the interim.
The miniatures business has always been a race, but KS and the ability to fund based on concept art and confidence alone has turned the miniatures business into Fury Road. We are all howling lunatics strung from flexi-poles on racing death machines trying to steal each other's virgins and blow each other up.
It really sucks.
* the costs are never eliminated. I charge money to sculpt because I need to eat and feed my family just like anyone else. I can only defer the cost of the time to the end of a project for a greater pay off. I very often go without getting " paid " for a sculpture just sop I can afford to get it made and hope to recoup the investment in time an dlabor over time once the figure is in the store. Same goes for Mierce. The lion's share of the cost is in the production costs....ESPECIALLY resin production.
I think one thing that is evident from the responses here, is that people don't necessarily want to fund "churn". When the next campaign launches, there will be 4 ongoing unfulfilled projects, and by saying there will be a campaign every 3 months, you can easily see that number rising.
I think part of the question here, as someone else noted, is what is the purpose? Is there a point where each of the core factions will be "complete" (with the possibility of an expansion book later or the like, of course). Most successful games hit points like this - Dropzone Commander, another small UK company making fine resin models for their own game, is a good example. They put out their rulebook with complete entries for each faction, then annually add some expansion units which they flesh out over the course of the year, which have now been compiled into an expansion book (with a new race, even!).
But they have also successfully pushed into retail outlets (not saying Mierce must do this, just noting that) and done things like converted their starter sets to plastic, made a terrain set for people to get playing their game quickly, and gotten wider adoption of the game as a result.
I think this would be something that could really add value to Mierce's customers - you can see how re-offering existing sculpts (whether the package deals in the Monstrous Mounts campaign, or the Sweet Spot being re-offered, etc) could still bring in a lot of funds. Then the casting efforts, instead of continually making new molds (I had no idea it was over 300!) could focus on producing enough stock of current sculpts to get into wider circulation.
Personally, there are some sculpts I'm extremely interested in from the existing line. Seeing more "starter sets" offered and made widely available would be something that would definitely tempt me.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, a business doesn't have to be continually making TONS of new sculpts to be continually doing TONS of business. There are a lot of ways to push forward with Darklands that don't involve having people pay for sculpts that won't deliver until Wave 8 (or whatever wave it's on now) a year or more hence. The casting department at Mierce obviously has tons to do with all the new sculpts that will be coming in, but there is a lot of opportunity to push the line once the rulebook is out, without making a single new sculpt.
Note that I'm not saying I don't want new sculpts - I'm just saying, that "churn" of new sculpt / unit after new sculpt / unit doesn't have to be perpetual for the company to make money, and indeed it likely cannot be. There is a point where people want to have a "complete" faction (or at least, complete for the starter rulebook, pending expansion, etc) and want to see the game itself be pushed for wider adoption, so that they have a use for all those models. Many of us are snowed under with fine Mierce resin as it is, and are committed to sculpts that are months away. So, that cycle can't always get pushed further and further out, and meet the same degree of success.
I am very interested to see what Mierce does going forward, and like Trodax said I hope this is taken as constructive criticism. Everyone here is likely heavily invested and wants the company to succeed - I just think there are a lot of ways to move the product line forward that don't involve getting stretched further and further out / thinner and thinner as a company, but working with what they've already accomplished and pushing that forward. Physical rulebook release and promotion being the chief example of that!
I really don't have any issue with a campaign schedule of every three months if it helps fill out all of the factions faster. I think a lot of people forget that Darkland campaigns are small and there's almost always quite a bit left on the table that didn't get funded at the end of their campaigns. Which ultimately delays the overall completeness of the game. Before the new kindreds KS the Atlantes faction has one mini... Once the game is more fleshed out and the factions have balanced line ups then I'd expect the KS's to wind down and retail becoming a bigger possibility.
Tre, I'm sure you have, unfortunately thanks to all the KS campaigns who treat their backers like garbage, I'll never find out. Perhaps you could comment in all those threads about how they cost the good guys in funding by burning backers?
Palladium Books, Prodos, Imbrian Arts, titan forge, Sandy Peterson... The list goes on.
I do nto keep up with all of them to be honest. I know they are out there and yes any KSer that does not deliver makes me angry. I am nto selective about my outrages.
I am new to miniature painting, and got into it because of the value of the Reaper Bones Kickstarter. I also have backed a few of Tre's campaigns, he's great. And I have since fallen in love with the Mierce look and quality, so have backed their Kickstarters beginning with New Edition II.
I have monitoring this forum on and off for a while, and I wanted to chime in with this current discussion since I know the Mierce guys read this. My first foray into miniatures Kickstarters was Reaper Bones. In the spring of 2013 I backed Dwarven Forge (also an established company), and that campaign got me excited enough to back a bunch of projects in a row, mostly from less established or much smaller companies. One of those was CSM Miniature's Tome of Horrors. They had run their first Kickstarter right after Reaper Bones, but I wasn't interested at the time. Their Tome of Horrors project in Spring 2013 looked very cool, so I went into it fairly heavily. Then in February of 2014 they did another Kickstarter that I backed since there had been steady communication and progress shown for the outstanding Kickstarters (though there were warning signs of lack of fulfillment for their very first Kickstarter). Now the guy running CSM is filing for bankruptcy and us backers will get nothing. He very clearly was using the money from each subsequent Kickstarter to fund previous campaigns (he also underpriced things I think, and made other poor business decisions). This is the definition of a Ponzi Scheme, even if it wasn't intentional from the start. The point is that this is an UNSUSTAINABLE long term business model. Because once confidence in future projects or fulfillment falters, it can all come crashing down like a house of cards.
In light of my experience and lost money, I am starting to be concerned about Mierce (especially when factoring in my limited understanding about what happened with Maelstrom). Rob is very communicative and friendly, unlike the silence from CSM Miniatures. However, everything is rosy right now. I even like the basic principle of using Kickstarter to expand a business (ie miniatures line/game) as quickly as possible while there is excitement and demand. But they are a premium product, which means their customer base will always be smaller than cheaper alternatives. At what point does the demand slow down (or even stop) because the hardcore fans have enough Mierce to last a lifetime. When will they have saturated the market for this kind of thing? What happens if the next Darklands Kickstarter doesn't fund? It doesn't take much to shatter confidence. The only reason that Kickstarter works as a long term business model for Tre Manor is because he is now completely fulfilling before starting another one.
I have no idea what percentage of total sales that Mierce sells from their website or to retailers (to provide cash flow outside of Kickstarter). I have no idea if they are setting aside enough money from each Kickstarter to cover the production costs for all of its rewards. I have no idea if there is a plan to transition from a Kickstarter (ie preorder) business model to a more traditional retail model of selling inventory.
If Kickstarter if about "investing" then I think more details of the business plan need to be shared with backers. No bank or private investor would hand over money without know what exactly will be done with those funds. Confidence in a company is the only "protection" we have as a Kickstarter backer, especially since these projects take so long to fulfill that we can't even do a credit card charge-back.
I really want to see Mierce succeed long term. So I'm hoping you guys will share more of the specifics of your business plan with us backers. Exact numbers are not important, but some reassurances that you have a realistic and viable plan for the future will help keep confidence up. Blind faith in Kickstarters is almost over. Backers are becoming wiser and will require more information going forward.
coolguitar7 wrote: I
I really want to see Mierce succeed long term. So I'm hoping you guys will share more of the specifics of your business plan with us backers. Exact numbers are not important, but some reassurances that you have a realistic and viable plan for the future will help keep confidence up. Blind faith in Kickstarters is almost over. Backers are becoming wiser and will require more information going forward.
I hope you don't, Rob. And hopefully you don't feel like you have to. That, quite frankly, isn't our business as customers.
Getting our product to us is, as is the open communication of production of said product. Both of which Mierce have been top of the line in.
Everything is rosy because Mierce fulfills their KS'ers and updates everyone weekly with a status of the outstanding ones. I really don't need a 5 year business plan from them in order for me to have confidence in them. There track record speaks for itself. If you don't feel that way that's OK just hold off until your pledge is fulfilled and then jump on the next KS if you so choose.
I understand being a bit gun shy since I've been bit on a few KS's as well. I jumped on Darklands during the first edition ii campaign too and Mierce has set the standard for me when I look at backing other KS'ers. No one really comes close so I typically pass and horde for Mierce's next KS.
Malkaven wrote: Everything is rosy because Mierce fulfills their KS'ers and updates everyone weekly with a status of the outstanding ones. I really don't need a 5 year business plan from them in order for me to have confidence in them. There track record speaks for itself. If you don't feel that way that's OK just hold off until your pledge is fulfilled and then jump on the next KS if you so choose.
My concern is not their current track record with Kickstarters. I agree that they have been run very well and they have fulfilled everything as each wave has happened (with a few delays, including some items pushed back into later waves - all understandable enough).
I am concerned about what happens if something drastically changes with Kickstarter or the campaigns. What if Kickstarter suddenly changes their rules drastically that somehow precludes the Mierce model? What if a project doesn't fund? The fact that Mierce says that they are a Kickstarter company worries me (with so many overlapping open projects). Because if the cash faucet is turned off for any reason, what happens to my outstanding orders? I shared my experience because I feel everyone needs to be more skeptical about Kickstarter projects. The problem is that what they are doing with increasing the frequency of campaigns, the risk is increasing (normally as time passes, investing in a company should become less risky).
Just a few months ago I had total trust in Mierce based on my experience. But after the CSM debacle I have stepped back to look at things more critically and there are some small signals here that are a bit similar to the CSM situation.
You are not purchasing the product, you're investing in the company and receiving product as a return later on down the road.
Many companies have begun to use KS as a method of securing pre-orders and avoiding the cash flow issues inherent in producing a product prior to people buying it from you, I don't necessarily think Mierce are the worst offenders at this, or even guilty of it at all, but it is important not to lose sight of the fact that your money IS at risk when you back a KS project, and it is important you be ok with that when you pledge.
coolguitar7 wrote: I
I really want to see Mierce succeed long term. So I'm hoping you guys will share more of the specifics of your business plan with us backers. Exact numbers are not important, but some reassurances that you have a realistic and viable plan for the future will help keep confidence up. Blind faith in Kickstarters is almost over. Backers are becoming wiser and will require more information going forward.
I hope you don't, Rob. And hopefully you don't feel like you have to. That, quite frankly, isn't our business as customers.
Getting our product to us is, as is the open communication of production of said product. Both of which Mierce have been top of the line in.
Lol because blind faith and Rob worked out so well before.
coolguitar7 wrote: I
I really want to see Mierce succeed long term. So I'm hoping you guys will share more of the specifics of your business plan with us backers. Exact numbers are not important, but some reassurances that you have a realistic and viable plan for the future will help keep confidence up. Blind faith in Kickstarters is almost over. Backers are becoming wiser and will require more information going forward.
I hope you don't, Rob. And hopefully you don't feel like you have to. That, quite frankly, isn't our business as customers.
Getting our product to us is, as is the open communication of production of said product. Both of which Mierce have been top of the line in.
Lol because blind faith and Rob worked out so well before.
Where's the blind faith? My money in KS1 was small. And it's grown because they've proven since March of 2013 that they would be delivering on their KS requirements. They've been consistently on time or even early with sculpts, make us immediately aware when there are going to be delays, and communicate better than nearly every KS I've backed (and I've backed a significant number). They've built up that trust with the people backing their KS over nearly two years time.
You can look in the past, and people that look to the "maelstrom incident" are justified in doing so, but for many of us, that's long in the past (and in reality it actually is fairly long in the past) and the subsequent positive experiences with Mierce more than make up for it. And FWIW, I lost a little bit of money in the "maelstrom incident," but knew that I might.
So again, it's hardly blind faith, but I appreciate your one off comment here that adds absolutely nothing to this discussion.
However I DO think they should at least have fulfilled all but the most recent of their efforts before coming back to fund more stuff yet again. That has become my rule for RBG anyway.
Become. Through bitter experience.
Where things for you went bad, for Mierce it worked out okay. There have been some delays but that aside they've done pretty well release wise - there updates make it clear whats coming and where, and by having wave 'dates' that are consistant between different kickstarters and pretty clear. Wave four is shipping currently - which is KS 3 and anything previous to that approximately. Its why there able to trade on good faith - people know where they stand.
You produce some excellent figures but so much lets you down. You should be, at this stage with your talent, as big as if not bigger then Hasslefree.
Get advertising, get your stuff into the distribution chain again, and then look at using kickstarter to fund something that compliments your business.... which is exactly what Mierce are doing right now. You should be looking at what Mierce and Hasslefree are doing and copying them because there successful, not complaining about what might have been or what other companies are doing wrong.
Sorry if all that seemed a bit white knight ish. I dont particularly want Mierce to do a new kickstarter simply because I cant keep up with whats what for what ranges. They should let the game bed in a bit. But I've seen Tre jump on threads like this all over the place and there doesnt seem to be any effort by red box to improve. Just a vicious cycle of new idea, kickstarter, moderate success, new idea...
Whoa man, we're a bit all over the place here . But discussion is good!
And thanks, coolguitar, for signing up and sharing your experience. I also have great confidence in Mierce, but having backed a bit over a hundred Kickstarter projects over two and a half years, I've seen too many well intentioned companies run into issues with the "ponzi scheme" danger of multiple open campaigns. I want Mierce to succeed, but that also means I want them to avoid this trap!
If they truly do keep their new campaigns small and manageable, able to be fulfilled in fairly short periods, they should be able to avoid it fine, I think. But it was worth discussing and it's nice to see various people's viewpoints of theses things in the community, too
Well said RiTides. Despite my concerns I am a Mierce fan, and thinking of some of those resin pieces makes me giddy like a child. But the discussion can only be a good thing, I'm thinking.
coolguitar7, I was also idiotically burned by CSM, lost more than a few nickels on Tome of Horrors I and II. It does make you think twice, I hear you there, even if it has nothing to do with Mierce.
As a new(returning) person into war-gaming I think I can be a bit objective and maybe offer some insight into potential new customer mind set..
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the minis. Those Dragon/Kraken monsters are dope!
However...However....
To be honest, I am not really sure what this "Darklands" is... Other then its shady company history I have not been able to find a lot about it at a quick glance. And if you're trying to sell something it should not need research but be easily found and described... What I mean is the miniatures and projects seem to be all over the shop. It seems like chaos. There's new minis being released all the time so it seems very overwhelming and unstructured. Forgive me my ignorance as I said I am quite new to wargaming. Just not sure what this business is going for.
Not familiar with the narrative at all but the names are totally and utterly off putting. Yeah I could make up my own "fluff and names"... If I buy into the miniatures I would like to also buy into the narrative Thats why WHFB is so very successful even though it is a spawn of the evil money grabbing GW.... Guess it would be nice to see an alternative.
So basically I cant tell if this is a business that's looking to get into mainstream, spread attract new customers,or if its couple guys in a shed making stuff for the "hell of it" for a closed market. If its the latter I think its a shame. I really want to like this game/minature range(?) and buy into it, but from a potential new customers perspective It seems very messy.
What I would love to see from a potential consumers perspective is more "tidying up".
I would love to see consolidation for the game(?):
Put more effort into the website,
More marketing/mainstream approach?
Have some solid factions, streamline the mini ranges? (surely would make it more cost effective)
Make the narrative more easily available(through said improved website)
Listen to your customers and give You're minis normal pronounceable names... Make this feel like a product/business that's structured rather then churn out new stuff...
Now Please forgive me if I am not making sense or if I said some heresy.
But I am ignorant in the ways of the community.
I do know a lot about business and people mentality.
If this is indeed a business with a vision for expansion, then rather then sell what you want to sell. Sell what people want to buy. Iron rule in my books.
As I said really love the miniatures and I have high hopes for this game(is this a game? )
But s long as I cant tell what it is very easily I am hesitant to buy into it... I think for every person who voices their comments regarding the issues(names... change the blasted names!!! ) I have highlighted there would be at least 20 who would have stumbled like me upon the products and are also potential customers....
-1 for changing the names. I love looking up the names of the characters that I don't know how to pronounce and learning something new about celtic lore at the same time.
so "abjbwejvwefvgj of wejhbrewhew is in combat with edb fwebfbewfevwg of the jasdnhbdkaj faction needs to roll a six to activate the effect of his dasbfbbhv"
Ok thats taking the piss but its what it seems to me an outsider.
I'm a dire hard fan of all things roman for example but rather then use the Latin names for legions I will say the "1st Illyrian cohort" when having a chat with a friend coz, well its easier..
I appreciate what you're saying.
But maybe a compromise? Like have the names in the books in plain english with (bracketed celtic equivalent?)
The fluff can still be there.
But Id rather play with Thengar Wolf-blood/wolfskin/wolf-eye/of the wolf then "thengfv dsafsfdbjh..." But I guess its a moot point.
Mierce ultimately gets to make the choice. This approach makes it VERY niche and I think shuts down a lot of potential market.. But that's just my opinion.
I love the minis tho and it makes me cry inside that the names are so crap :(
I really don't understand the issues with the names. You read the words and phonetically sound them out. A name is only strange when you're unfamiliar with it. I'm sure to an "outsider" could look at Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka and just go "Well that sounds weird, so I'm not going to play 40k". That same could go towards several of the Necron names.
If people can learn to say Tchaikovsky, Fyodor Dostoyevsky, or other "foreign" names, it's not that difficult to learn these.
RivenSkull wrote: I really don't understand the issues with the names. You read the words and phonetically sound them out. A name is only strange when you're unfamiliar with it. I'm sure to an "outsider" could look at Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka and just go "Well that sounds weird, so I'm not going to play 40k". That same could go towards several of the Necron names.
If people can learn to say Tchaikovsky, Fyodor Dostoyevsky, or other "foreign" names, it's not that difficult to learn these.
That's one or two examples.. This is EVERY miniature in the range I seen more or less. As I said I totally get what they are trying to do and the theme they are going for... but effectively they are trying to use a dead language using modern alphabet... from a marketing perspective I cannot see this working for a wide audience. I showed this to a couple people and they were like "what is this gak.. how do I pronounce this" and were isntantly put off. If however it was the "Fire Lord of Awesomeness" EVERYONE that speaks English , wether into wargaming or not will understand and relate to the product.
I actually thought the game was made in Scandinavia when I first saw the miniatures... anyone ever play "shadow of colossus ?" that worked because it had subtitles...
I am actually a Polski so I know a thing or two about pronouncing difficult phonetic words... Trust me when I say using Romanised/lLatin modern english (english is not a phonetic language as far as I am concerned) alphabet to try and pronounce Scandinavian or welsh(?) just feels like such a ball ache. I want to paint minies, learn rules. Now I have to study a dead language too?
As I said nkbwefbwe hkwqebkbwe could be called "Skull Lord Throgg" and have both names in its entry/fluff/minature name. Best of both worlds IMO.
Of course it will appeal to many of people like yourself. But form a business marketing perspective its going to hold the game back big time from potentially achieving a much larger following I fear. I hope I am wrong though..
I think if they went with english names it would just simplify things and bring cohesion and understanding for customers for Darklands.
Take factions for example. There are 12 on the site... these could be the wolf tribes, barbarian hordes, beastmen, troglodites, scaled ones, dragon men etc. you get an idea of what the faction theme is...
Rather then albainn, angelcynn, atalantes, brythoniaid, ysians, khthones... Just over complicates the hell out of everything...
I would love to play this as a game. But just cant see me buying into it as I would need to buy into the fluff.
As I said I do love the miniatures... don't get me wrong... this is DOPE!!
People who buy into a wargame commit a large portion of cash and hours of their time into it.
I don't think it's unreasonable to create a coherent universe for that game the requires a certain investment of time to get to grips with.
Many of the names have a logical convention and a real world origin, seriously, spend half an hour and Google some of the character names, they often have their roots in real Celtic or other ancient culture legends - often this is totally deliberate and can provide an extra layer of depth to that character/model.
I'd much rather a deep and rich background that rewards knowledge and research than something superficial and a little bit childish.
Either way, the names aren't just plucked out of thin air, there is reasoning behind them all (except the ones that are just puns!)
My examples were thought of on the spot in 5 seconds... rather then recycle old dead language.
I get the universe: Western Europe in the dark ages alternative universe type deal. I am already sold on this.
They got this amazing universe and idea I don't see why bring in all these dead names they pluked up rather then come up with heir own stuff seems uncreative.
Then again whatever. Those demons are cool... Just don't see why not compromise. Change is not always bad. Unless its comes in the wake of the Lord Of Change in which case bummer...
The names are one of the reason why I didin't bother with this game. I also know for a fact I am not the only one.
Every single name borders on the unpronoucable and looks weird. I don't even get what the names of the factions are - at first glance I have no idea what style the models are or what type of characteristics they would have.
Further more, suggesting I spend an hour and an half on google to familiar myself with it is just plain wrong. A game should not require me to do that to get me interested in it.
I didn't suggest you should I suggested you might like to. I also said half an hour, but whatever.
If you're already not interested, it's fair to say that suggestion doesn't apply to you. For anyone who's interested in the background already, or has an interest in ancient European history, there's Easter eggs aplenty in the names.
The factions all have analogues to real world or legendary cultures to some degree (admittedly, I wasn't that familiar with the Fomoraic until I did a bit of digging, but they're actually quite well established in Irish folklore.)
I guess you're either the sort of person who "gets" all this and is excited by it, or you're not, it isn't the first time people have raised the language issue, but I don't think Rob and the team are likely to deviate from that now, it is something that is uniquely Darklands.
Azreal13 wrote: I didn't suggest you should I suggested you might like to. I also said half an hour, but whatever.
If you're already not interested, it's fair to say that suggestion doesn't apply to you. For anyone who's interested in the background already, or has an interest in ancient European history, there's Easter eggs aplenty in the names.
The factions all have analogues to real world or legendary cultures to some degree (admittedly, I wasn't that familiar with the Fomoraic until I did a bit of digging, but they're actually quite well established in Irish folklore.)
I guess you're either the sort of person who "gets" all this and is excited by it, or you're not, it isn't the first time people have raised the language issue, but I don't think Rob and the team are likely to deviate from that now, it is something that is uniquely Darklands.
Oops, apologies for misquoting the time.
Here is the biggy. I have one of the snake thingies. Awesome sculpt. I have seen some others I like. Going to their website to find the models I liked was a frikking pain in the ass. I had no idea if it was unreleased, what faction I shoulld be looking for to find them or even which category. So I didn't buy anymore.
A game should not be inpenetrable to a casual buyer - I enjoy history, even play historicals, but this is very esoteric part of fables and history that as wide read as I considered myself to be I found to very frustrating. I went from drooling over mini's to only owning one or two from an initial order with no intention of owning others. I understand they wont change anything but I am also sure they are aware they are not maximizing their potential but are comfortable with that.
I've had this trouble when trying to research / buy the models, too. I luckily always remember the subtitle "sea devil" for the big alligator monster. But it's real name is impossible for me to remember / pronounce / etc, so I always find it by the subtitle.
If all the models came with these subtitles, it'd make searching for (and thus buying) them a lot easier!
I think this is a symptom of there not being an established publication to go with the game - I can personally testify that the team are aware of that and treating it as a priority.
I think, once the full rulebook is in people's hands, then, while there still may be issues over individual unit names, the broad strokes of the factions will be much easier to get to grips with, and I don't think there's a non-factual game in existence which doesn't require at least a bit of reading of the book to get to grips with the background - Darklands just currently finds itself without that as an option.
You also may suffer slightly from being the other side of the Atlantic, some, although by no means a lot, of the references may be easier on a Brit/European than an American, the fact that it isn't your culture, or is at least one or two steps removed, might mean you have to do a little more heavy lifting.
Either way, Mierce are nearly unanimously praised for their comms, so if you had specific questions I'm sure they'd be happy to answer an email or KS message, they pop up here fairly regularly too, and if you posted any questions here, those of us with a longer or more involved relationship with the game can prolly answer them too.
Aye, I'll concede that it couldn't hurt, except maybe where people could conceivably get even more bogged down and muddled between rule names and nicknames!
Eg
"I thought you were bringing Kaairioc-cro, not the Sea Devil?!"
"Kaaririoc-cro IS the Sea Decil, doofus!"
I find I just power through, make noises that vaguely correlate with the order of the letters and the only other chap I can actually talk to IRL about things right now generally knows what I mean!
You also may suffer slightly from being the other side of the Atlantic, some, although by no means a lot, of the references may be easier on a Brit/European than an American, the fact that it isn't your culture, or is at least one or two steps removed, might mean you have to do a little more heavy lifting.
Sorry, despite flag I am English and dare I say it, rather well educated and well read. I am just cursed to be living amongst the colonials for last 15yrs. That is why I think the potential popularity and appeal of this game is being substantial blunted, especially in the US. I have limited time and therefore not interested in doing the "heavy lifting" to get into a game. It is a shame, because the models are beautiful and some of the best casting I have got my hands on.
Yeah, like I said, having a good portion of it explained in a rulebook and all in one place may make all the difference, only a couple of months to find out!
You also may suffer slightly from being the other side of the Atlantic, some, although by no means a lot, of the references may be easier on a Brit/European than an American, the fact that it isn't your culture, or is at least one or two steps removed, might mean you have to do a little more heavy lifting.
Sorry, despite flag I am English and dare I say it, rather well educated and well read. I am just cursed to be living amongst the colonials for last 15yrs. That is why I think the potential popularity and appeal of this game is being substantial blunted, especially in the US. I have limited time and therefore not interested in doing the "heavy lifting" to get into a game. It is a shame, because the models are beautiful and some of the best casting I have got my hands on.
I'm curious just how much exposure your average Brit has to dark age welsh or gaelic speech... I cant imagine your dude on the street knows that the hell a Prifdynwocor is or could spell it. Really for me (as a dumb colonist) the only ones that fall into the gibberish realm are the Brythoniaids, mainly the dragon men species names. Anything else can be sounded out pretty easily. I'm also totally for keeping the names as is.
What I'm mostly interested in is a faction overview for how the armies play differently. What makes a norse band feel unique on the field than a ysian. In Warhammer, Warmahordes, Malifaux, etc, the different factions have different schticks, but that's not readily apparent in Darklands.
I'm curious just how much exposure your average Brit has to dark age welsh or gaelic speech... I cant imagine your dude on the street knows that the hell a Prifdynwocor is or could spell it. Really for me (as a dumb colonist) the only ones that fall into the gibberish realm are the Brythoniaids, mainly the dragon men species names. Anything else can be sounded out pretty easily. I'm also totally for keeping the names as is.
What I'm mostly interested in is a faction overview for how the armies play differently. What makes a norse band feel unique on the field than a ysian. In Warhammer, Warmahordes, Malifaux, etc, the different factions have different schticks, but that's not readily apparent in Darklands.
Average brit ? Next to none. I honestly run this(names) by a couple people who are as geeky as me and got the just piss off look. But All agree the mini are absolutely amazing. I am looking forward to the igniss?/demon and dragon-men faction. Those things are bad asssss!!
I literally had this conversation again today at wagamamas with my mate(newcomer/returner), showed him models first, and going into fluff and names second. Said the same thing.
RiTides wrote:All that said Az, as I just said, going a subtitle route with their publication names could give them the best of both worlds. Food for thought!
After buying nothing but Brythoniaid dragon men, it's starting to become second nature figuring out all the names.
I will admit that my Master's studies were in linguistics and language acquisition, so I might be a tad bit ahead of the curve in regards to deciphering the naming conventions.
All this talk of colonists and curses - very annoying...
Anyway, I'll admit that the names 'bothered' me at the start, but they don't any more! The beautiful miniatures and the quality casts won me over long ago. I suppose you can either deal/work with the names, or not?
I still think the biggest hurdle to overcome now is getting that full ruleset book out to backers and on store shelves.
RiTides' idea of subtitles or roughly translated names along with the model mirrors what I was thinking. PP does a nice job of having models with names and types on the same card, both of which have relevance. I think it would really help out here as sort of a subtitle for players to learn the words and world while at the same time giving some mechanical advantages, both in game and in their rather difficult to navigate online store.
I love games with depth and things to keep learning, but sometimes the entry difficulty is a bit higher than it needs to be. Start with what people know and let them guide themselves through the rest and things tend to work out better.
I'll be honest. I really doubt this is something Mierce will budge on. The historical and cultural naming is a big important factor for the world they're creating, and for some (myself included) it's actually a selling point.
I'd personally be really disappointed if I saw anything even remotely resembling argive's suggestions.
cincydooley wrote: I'll be honest. I really doubt this is something Mierce will budge on. The historical and cultural naming is a big important factor for the world they're creating, and for some (myself included) it's actually a selling point.
I'd personally be really disappointed if I saw anything even remotely resembling argive's suggestions.
and why would being more inclusive and having more players be a bad thing?
I don't like the names and frankly I don't give a toss about it. The models are key. I dare say I'd still buy GW models despite the piss poor fluff of the last fifteen years if the models were still top tier but they're not (some are nice, just not for the money). From what I've read of mierce fluff it's quite decent. Carrowek for example, short bio, ok to read http://www.mierce-miniatures.com/index.php?act=pro&pre=mrm_dkl_ysn_kys_wld_101_000
At the end of the day, I don't think the "Names" are causing major problems and/or lost sales.
Lack of a rulebook (coming in February), Mierce as a "Kickstarter Company (and as such, probably scaring away some distributors/game stores), and the miniatures being Resin/Boutique/Expensive are probably bigger 'contributors' to the Issues here, if there are in fact any Issues!
cincydooley wrote: I'll be honest. I really doubt this is something Mierce will budge on. The historical and cultural naming is a big important factor for the world they're creating, and for some (myself included) it's actually a selling point.
I'd personally be really disappointed if I saw anything even remotely resembling argive's suggestions.
and why would being more inclusive and having more players be a bad thing?
Because this is the background they've envisioned and don't have any interest in changing it to appease people that can't be bothered to read a (provided!) pronunciation guide.
Again, I hope they don't budge. I don't think every product needs to appeal to every person, and I don't believe Mierce should budge on this because there's a lot of thought and intellectualism that goes into the naming of their models.
Quite. If you have a vision the way Rob apparently has, then sure, you may look at compromises to enhance commercial viability, but there needs to be a line in the sand or you start to compromise your own integrity, and that is worth losing a few sales to protect.
If a year from now mierce minatures are selling blood warriors, armed with blood swords, riding blood beasts, led by bloody mcbloodington, I will not be impressed.
I'd rather something took effort than be stupid.
JWBS wrote: I don't like the names and frankly I don't give a toss about it. The models are key. I dare say I'd still buy GW models despite the piss poor fluff of the last fifteen years if the models were still top tier but they're not (some are nice, just not for the money). From what I've read of mierce fluff it's quite decent. Carrowek for example, short bio, ok to read http://www.mierce-miniatures.com/index.php?act=pro&pre=mrm_dkl_ysn_kys_wld_101_000
I honestly miss the wonderfully purple descriptions that the early models got, and I really hope they keep that style when the rulebook comes out. This is the sort of thing I mean:
The Jötnar of Jötunheimr are rarely seen in Midgard, for the mountains and the forests of that bleak land of giants and trolls provide all that they want to live their long lives, or so they claim. Yet some Jötnar eyes are drawn to the inhabitants of Manheimr, that strange land to the west where menn swarm like bees and live such short lives despite being so full of their own importance; as was Mjagnir drawn, drawn to a land where blood-thirst can be slaked and the animus can be inflated, for despite his notoriety as perhaps the most brutish Jötunn ever to descend upon Midgard there are many who revere him as a living god, a personification of the furious will that lives in all of them, and beg him to join them upon their raids to the west, raids where plunder and booty are matched only by the battle-joy that engulfs them all. In truth Mjagnir cares little for the squeaking insects beneath him and their pathetic baubles, but allows them to believe he is with them for the joys they offer are unmatched in Jötunheimr, where only other Jötnar roam - joys of battle against beasts tall and strong, huge and ferocious, creatures that he can unleash all of his fury upon and test the strength and the anger he was born with without fear: for even the Jötnar, Mjagnir among them, fear the gods.
It's the sort of thing that you could imagine someone in-setting using to describe a legendary monster, and it also fleshes out more of the setting beyond "it has giants" through hints and references that make the world seem bigger and more mysterious.
Azreal13 wrote: Quite. If you have a vision the way Rob apparently has, then sure, you may look at compromises to enhance commercial viability, but there needs to be a line in the sand or you start to compromise your own integrity, and that is worth losing a few sales to protect.
Given their history, I'm not quite sure "integrity" is the word to be using . Feedback is meant to help, and when a lot of people say the same thing, it's worth listening to, not shouting down. Not necessarily saying that last part to Az, but in general.
Subtitles is a reasonable compromise, not Anathema, and it's something they've already done on some models! I think it's a bit hyperbolic to be talking of adding them as an integrity issue, or people saying that they hope they "don't budge" etc... I know of one company that completely ignores the input of it's fanbase, and admits to doing so - and that is Games Workshop. Smaller companies, which still have yet to print the rulebook for their game, have a lot more flexibility and fan interaction, and taking on a suggestion like this would do nothing to tarnish their vision, but make it more accessible to a larger audience.
As this has drifted off topic, and is neither news not rumors, it is probably best to take it to a different thread, maybe down in Dakka Discussions, or the Misc. Games section?
So is the rulebook being shipped wave 5 then since its due in Feb? Assuming its still on time. I have one wave 6 mini but wave 5 should just about complete my fist edition 2 pledge.
Malkaven wrote: So is the rulebook being shipped wave 5 then since its due in Feb? Assuming its still on time. I have one wave 6 mini but wave 5 should just about complete my fist edition 2 pledge.
Mierce have said the book will be posted separately, you do not have to wait until the next paid for shipping wave.
That's good news! I will be very tempted to pick it up when it's released . Maybe even just for the art, as some of the setting artwork for the faction homelands (particularly the ones shown in the New Kindreds campaign) has been amazing. It definitely helps immerse you in the world they're creating!
I guess I will have to grit my teeth through the pain because I want those miniatures Its hard to turn off the business part of the brain...
I just really hope the Infernii faction gets to be a "thing" because those demons are dope. Throw couple of smaller Infantry/monstrous infantry to flesh out the faction and I am in.
They are getting fleshed out. The Monstrous Infantry is below and will be out in a few months.
Spoiler:
RiTides wrote: @JWBS- No problem posting that here, although if anyone wants to take you up on it please work it out via PM or direct them to a swapshop / etc thread.
-------------------------
Okay guys, as I try to do, I just put my money where my mouth is and pre-ordered Scecchus!
This had me looking at Roberto Chaudon's progress on the other servile fiends of dis on his excellent blog:
A few pics! I don't think we've seen the standard bearer before, right? It looks really good (first pic below, and plenty more on the blog)
I love them, but can someone PLEASE tell Chaudon to make the last one left-handed as I think there is still one left to go to complete the unit, right?
RiTides wrote: I would love to see some smaller Infernii infantry, too! I've gotten Scecchus and pledged for the mount, absolutely love their aesthetic.
I think the smaller Infernii troops will be Byzantii. In the lore the Infernii are being made to serve the Byzantii Emperor (or being instructed to), and the demons are much more of an auxiliary force of the Legions.
RiTides wrote: I would love to see some smaller Infernii infantry, too! I've gotten Scecchus and pledged for the mount, absolutely love their aesthetic.
Apart from the Monstrous infantry above there is the Demi - demons who are with the Bzyantii on 40mm stands. There are a unit of them with Erebius to lead them. ..Whilst I know they are not pure Demons they still look demonic enough.
Do you know what they're called, Denilsta? I couldn't find them when googling just now (there's a lot on Erebius Demiurion, but I didn't see a unit to go along with him, or what their name would be).
I see they're listed for February (funded two campaigns ago, back in April) but we haven't seen WIPs yet, right? Definitely interested to see how these turn out, thanks for the wiki links.
RiTides wrote: I see they're listed for February (funded two campaigns ago, back in April) but we haven't seen WIPs yet, right? Definitely interested to see how these turn out, thanks for the wiki links.
Looking at the last update there are no WIP's III Judas. .....However it appears the delivery date has slipped to April.
Hector Moran's scheduled to sculpt the Demi-legionnaires, so whenever he's available to sculpt them really.
The Infernii are also rumoured to have some sort of Deamon-engine warmachine. Also, it has been hinted that they'll get some sort of 30mm based infantry at some point. No idea on names.
Finally, at the risk of a telling off, all I'll say on the names is that Rob suffers from Bryan Ansell syndrome - every mini is named even though it isn't needed and has no meaning game wise. The musters have the unit names and a pronunciation of it. I do think the website is very poor in communicating the game, just the company is tiny at the moment and they're struggling for time to re-do it!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, and Tim (who'll be running the Banelegions campaign) posted this in the KS comments:
I just approved some groovy pieces of art for BaneBeasts! (and I mean nice!) ;0) It's not aimed at the ardent Darklands fans, that's for sure (we're giving you guys and Darklands a break whilst the rules etc are sorted!) but the fantasy gamers and mini collectors might find some gems in there! It won't be a massive affair - circa a dozen total monsters to fund and they're adaptations of Darklands stuff with a generic fantasy twist (so swapping out historical or kindred specific elements for a wider audience and also adding the more high fantasy stuff such as the dreaded trio of races you don't see in Darklands!) - wait till you see the **c riding the armoured W*v**n! ;0)
Darklands and Banebeasts/Banelords are two seperate ranges, and it looks like they've got someone focusing on the Bane-ranges exclusively which is a good thing.
Having a range thats accessible to groups who may not look at mierce usually is a great way of helping the range and the company grow.
Guess we are all playing Infernii when this game gets developed? For some reason I am drawn to these more then the WH demons. Reminiscent of disciples 2 for me, if any of you know what I mean.
Rule book will be ordered come the next payday. I dare not buy any actual infernii minatures until I am satisfied my painting skills are back up to decent enough level. Anything short of that is heresy!
The whole name/language issue if going to stay a sticking point but meh. The legions of dis shall one day be at my command!!!
Just bought this model which I've always craved with some post Christmas funds
Planning to steal the boar for a conversion . Thought about buying it via bits on the Mierce site, but decided it was worth it just to get the whole kit domestically.
Insanely awesome model - do keep in mind that the legs of the rider (up to the belt level) are cast as one piece with the mount. Not sure if it might cause conversion issues or not but best to be aware before purchasing
Bolognesus wrote: Insanely awesome model - do keep in mind that the legs of the rider (up to the belt level) are cast as one piece with the mount. Not sure if it might cause conversion issues or not but best to be aware before purchasing
I think he already bought it, so hopefully he already took that into account.
He mentioned checking out the bits on Mierce's webstore, so I hope he's OK...
Bossk_Hogg wrote: Did you want the boar armored/saddled? Curios why you went w the mounted version vs. Baintaac. Its a great model either way.
Yeah, I considered the unarmored version, but the pics of this one look much better with a lot more interesting details.
Thanks for the heads up on the legs, Bolognesus! I was afraid they would be one piece with it, but it would be "all too easy" if they weren't (to quote Vader )
Any thoughts on how you'll actually make the back banner removable, Orlando, or do you just plan not to use it? I like the appearance of ita lot, but hadn't considered it's fragility.
Gents, quick question for someone just jumping in.
I really like these sculpts, and love the fluff.
BUT, aren't these the same people that lost a load of people's money etc? I realise this might be all dead and buried now, I just didn't want to money into something that wasn't morally great without asking first!
Hoping I'll be told that I'm talking rubbish, as the models look great!
Division of Joy, I was about to link to that thread Alpharius sent you to, as that's where a lot of information is compiled. I definitely don't think any of it should be "left behind", but that is the appropriate place to discuss it / ask more questions if you have any.
I made a summary post of the known facts within that thread, here is a direct link to it:
It'd be even better if monstrous mounts gets an update! The behema has been far along but not finalized for quite some time now, and I'd really like to see it finished.
We've decided to put back the printing of the rulebook to summer 2015. We just do not have the time to get everything playtested and written before then.
Glad I'm not the only one thinking WTF. I've supported Mierce by buying enough miniatures for three healthily sized armies, but this is the limit for me.
There will now be no more support from me for Darklands until the rulebook is released and I feel I can trust Mierce to produce a full wargame, not just pretty miniatures.
I'm only interested in the miniatures so I'm not waiting on it for gaming, but I am a bit fed up that it has been pushed back again and again since I paid for it quite some time ago now. I'm sure it'll be lovely when it does arrive though.
RiTides wrote: Division of Joy, I was about to link to that thread Alpharius sent you to, as that's where a lot of information is compiled. I definitely don't think any of it should be "left behind", but that is the appropriate place to discuss it / ask more questions if you have any.
I made a summary post of the known facts within that thread, here is a direct link to it:
Henry wrote: Glad I'm not the only one thinking WTF. I've supported Mierce by buying enough miniatures for three healthily sized armies, but this is the limit for me.
There will now be no more support from me for Darklands until the rulebook is released and I feel I can trust Mierce to produce a full wargame, not just pretty miniatures.
I'm a big fan of Mierce's Darklands stuff.
ESPECIALLY as a fantasy tabletop wargame.
This latest news of another delay to the book printing is VERY disappointing.
I'll admit that this is also beginning to concern me more than a little bit.
I have backed Meirce very heavily from the first KS onward, I must have spent around £ 3000 if not more. This was not for an investment to be sold on ebay later or anything like that, I was investing in the game play, the back ground and the miniatures. ...I hate data slides and tablets for rules, as I have been wargaming for over 30 years I'm a bit old fashioned and prefer a physical book.
This latest delay is upsetting and troublesome especially as it is the same reason used for nearly a year now. Please Rob, Tim and Mierce sort this out, the book should come before any further Kickstarters as it will show a real commitment to make this game work.
We've decided to put back the printing of the rulebook to summer 2015. We just do not have the time to get everything playtested and written before then.
Wow. That's not what I was expecting...
That puts it's release simultaneous to GW's fantasy update, which even if the fantasy update is poor, it will have momentum when it starts. Releasing now would've given Darklands time to take hold as an alternative ruleset for people to consider if they didn't like the new fantasy. Now... it'll likely just get lost in the shuffle.
And in the interim they'll likely put out a lot more artwork for new minis that they'll schedule to ship in 2016 . They really don't seem to be taking the feedback that people really want to see the game materialize that they're buying all these armies for. I think it likely someone will mention the Quickstarter rules, but the current state of those are described below:
The Darklands QuickStarter Rules are a simplified version of the forthcoming Darklands: First Edition rules that will allow the keen wargamer to play a very basic version of Darklands easily and long before the full rules are released.
As such, wargamers must understand that - whilst the basic procedures of how to play Darklands are presented here (such as how to move your units and fight with them, as well as shoot the enemy and invoke sorcery) there will be much more to those procedures within the full rules as well as much else besides.
Until the creation of the Darklands: First Edition Rules, the QuickStarter Rules will always be "living" rules - i.e., they will be updated when necessary
I don't think that's what people are looking for... imagine fantasy being released and their saying it's just good enough to "allow the keen wargamer to play a very basic version"
Rulebook has gone from "February 2015" to "SUMMER 2015"?!?
Also, did we ever find out what the 'answer' was to the "Hror Question"?
Creator Mierce Miniatures about 1 hour ago
@Alpharius - well, printed rulebook.
The Hror question is something I will turn my attention too soon, but it won't involve a refund or anything like that; he's actually turned out pretty big.
Alpharius about 1 hour ago
Rob,
Ah, so the full rules will be available well in advance of the printing in "Summer 2015"?
That will help!
Also, I certainly wasn't looking for a Hror Refund - just wondering what ever came of the whole thing!
Tim's running the BaneBeasts project, and they're mostly conversions; whilst I do have to do the graphics, my input there is limited.
My total focus right now is getting the full rules (in PDF form) ready for you all in the next few weeks, and then you can play and go mad. There'll be more diagrams too - I've been waiting for our photographer to do top down shots of painted miniatures so that I can present them nicely. The rules you've already got will have more diagrams, I just wanted to get them to you before Christmas.
We are a very small team and I, as the writer and main driver of the Mierce Miniatures business, have a limited amount of time to get the rules done in a working day. Not only do I answer e-mails and messages, sort out orders, post updates and keep the website running, I also have to prepare the accounts and do all the things necessary to keep a business going and to keep the wolf from the door. Additionally, I have a big family and cannot spend as much time as I would like to work at home.
At the end of the day, I've put one day a week aside for updates, and in hindsight that's probably too much. As soon as I mentioned they may go monthly, there was a bit of an outcry.
I am just one man and I am doing my best. I appreciate people are disappointed but if I could do it quicker, I would.
I think maybe Rob should get some help on that rulebook!
Tim's running the BaneBeasts project, and they're mostly conversions; whilst I do have to do the graphics, my input there is limited.
My total focus right now is getting the full rules (in PDF form) ready for you all in the next few weeks, and then you can play and go mad. There'll be more diagrams too - I've been waiting for our photographer to do top down shots of painted miniatures so that I can present them nicely. The rules you've already got will have more diagrams, I just wanted to get them to you before Christmas.
We are a very small team and I, as the writer and main driver of the Mierce Miniatures business, have a limited amount of time to get the rules done in a working day. Not only do I answer e-mails and messages, sort out orders, post updates and keep the website running, I also have to prepare the accounts and do all the things necessary to keep a business going and to keep the wolf from the door. Additionally, I have a big family and cannot spend as much time as I would like to work at home.
At the end of the day, I've put one day a week aside for updates, and in hindsight that's probably too much. As soon as I mentioned they may go monthly, there was a bit of an outcry.
I am just one man and I am doing my best. I appreciate people are disappointed but if I could do it quicker, I would.
I think maybe Rob should get some help on that rulebook!
I completely understand if he wants to keep the rules to himself, it's his baby after all.....but maybe some help with all the other stuff he listed may not be a bad idea.
New releases into the Webshop! These have been lingering for a while - produced during the first Kickstarter, they've only just appeared for regular sale:
The Wolves of Mierce
Over the last few months we've been releasing miniatures funded by our Darklands: First Edition project, but we're interrupting normal service to bring you some stragglers from Darklands: a World of War! February's new releases are mostly about the Angelcynn, for the excellent Wulfric's Pack, Wælwulf Unit is being released as individual miniatures as well as in unit form. Wælwulfas (slaughter-wolves) are mighty wolf-men of Mierce, somewhat more devolved than the Werwulfas and much more ferocious. These guys were funded by our very first project, but it's taken us a while to get them painted an photographed for release. They're here now though!
This month we also have some Templar's Forge base packs for you. The old base packs didn't include some of the new base sizes, so we've addressed that, and we've also ensured there's a new Monstrous Infantry Base Pack, too.
Unfortunately, just like the previous releases this year, thanks to us being busier than busy bees we've just not had the time to get the release art and descriptions done; but you can still see some good images of each miniature on the website of course.
Sculpted by Benoît Cosse from the artwork by Danny Cruz, and painted superbly by Martin Grandbarbe, Wulfric's Pack comprises five Wælwulfas - champion, banner bearer, herald and two warriors - to overwhelm your enemies with their speed and ferocity. Purchasing the unit saves you £20 from purchasing the miniatures individually, effectively giving you a free Wælwulf (pronounced 'WAL-wulf')!
Wulfric is the champion of the Wælwulf unit, a 'Frēawælwulf' or Great Wælwulf, which is why it's called Wulfric's Pack, of course. He's quite keen on ripping his enemies apart with his bare hands, as you can see...
Wulfric's Pack also contains a herald - a Thēotenwælwulf or Howler Wælwulf. Dudda is that herald, and he calls the pack to hunt at the whim of Wulfric!
This month we have some new and re-released base packs for you all, which include the new base sizes of 40mm, 50mm and 80mm as well as the old ones of 30mm, 60mm, 100mm and 120mm. The Darklands Bases Pack contains some of each size, whilst the Darklands Infantry, Monstrous Infantry, Cavalry and Monster Bases Packs contain bases relevant to that class of warrior. Whichever Bases Pack you go for, they all save you money on purchasing the bases individually or as size packs - usually around 20% - but the Darklands Bases Pack saves you a massive 40%!
All of the releases above will be officially released on the 7th of February 2015, but you can pre-order them now from this very website to your heart's content!
I like some of them quite a bit, although the leader showing off his "8-pack" is a bit much for me on the muscles... lots of companies do this but I feel like scary beasts shouldn't always be "cut" like they're promoting an 8-minute abs commercial.
RiTides wrote: I like some of them quite a bit, although the leader showing off his "8-pack" is a bit much for me on the muscles... lots of companies do this but I feel like scary beasts shouldn't always be "cut" like they're promoting an 8-minute abs commercial.
To be fair, I think thats partially due to the highlighting on the model. I've seen some painted up with more subdued highlights, and it doesn't look nearly as jarring.
I understand all you whiners and your complaints about the rulebook (/joking); however, the quick start rules give you a TON of game. It's what we've been using for quite some time (since before GenCon) and we've put in probably 40-50 games since then (not including all of the demos I ran, upwards of 120) and they're really fun. Morale is going to make it a fuller game, but I think the quickstart is already better than most fantasy rulesets out there.
It is good to see the PDF rules are going to be avail sooner, that's for sure!
Ooh! Wolves! How'd I mis this update? They look good, but I don't think they look quite as good as their concept art. I don't know what it is, but the art had a more feral look about them, especially Wulfric. If I ever saw them for a good price, I'd totally grab them, though. Now, bring on Eoric's pack.
Those look a bit better than a recall, but I'm still not a fan of Aesc's weird mane, since it makes him kind of look like a gnoll.
Also it looks like these werewolves have had an appointment with Dr. Snips' Vet Clinic. Unless Monster Squad lied to us all those years ago, and Wolf Man, in fact, did not have nards.
I think they should get some better painters in-house. These past months all the paints are like cmon 7s or something, not really good enough for these minis.
JWBS wrote: I think they should get some better painters in-house. These past months all the paints are like cmon 7s or something, not really good enough for these minis.
I agree with this, and I think its making the models like comic, almost digital.
It does kind of look as if someone decided to paint werewolves (canvas, resin, what's the difference, right?) and the underlying models just happened to get in the way while he was doing that. Weird.
Its because of Martin Grandbarbe's weird painting style. All his stuff has this impressionist feel, and his skin tones in general make this even more obvious.
.
BTW, does anyone have Leofwen? Is her face really that pinched up or just how it was painted?
I recognize Grandbarbe's technical skill (and he's a better painter than me for sure), but generally just don't care as much for his work as Sébastien Picque.
Good, then odds are the face looks less like 90's era Renee Zellweger after sucking on the worlds most sour lemon... I really liked the concept, but was turned off by how she looked painted up. I might add Ffion after all as well.
Today we have news of BaneBeasts: Mighty Monsters - which goes live at 3pm GMT - and a first look at Tomas Johansson's awesome ancestor, Trytheorn...
Now, as mentioned previously, Darklands: First Edition is close to fulfilment and so there won't be a great deal to show each week from here on in. Even so, there's still some cracking miniatures ahead - and there'll be plenty of painted miniatures to show, too, even after the project is fulfilled!
This week there's:
•news of our fantastic non-Darklands Kickstarter project, BaneBeasts: Mighty Monsters;
•sculpt work in progress from Juan Navarro Pérez;
•a list of the miniatures are currently being sent in Wave 3, and what will be sent in the next few waves;
•updated lists of sculptors and sculpts;
•downloadable versions of the current QuickStarter Rules, Muster Rules and Kindred Musters;
...and anything else you can expect from us over the next few months.
Here we go!
We have just the one sculpt work in progress image to show you this week, from Juan Navarro Pérez... and it's brilliant!
The fantastic Trytheorn is Tomas Johansson's ancestor, and he's looking fantastic! Juan is doing the helmed version first, but there will of course be an unhelmed version so we can see Tomas' lovely features!
Somehow Juan thought Trytheorn's drinking horn was a sword, but we'll get that changed in the final version (to the drinking horn)...
We do hope Trytheorn will be completed to meet Wave 5, but we'll see.
Lastly, but certainly not leastly, we have news of something fantastic happening today - at 3pm GMT - that is not Darklands!
That's right - the BaneBeasts are back, and this time they mean business!
What's the BaneBeasts?
For those not in the know, the BaneBeasts were some of our very first miniatures back in the day and many of them were eventually, er, transmutatemogrified into Darklands miniatures - such as Krull, and Ulmons, and the Terror of Fortriu. Some still exist as BaneBeasts, of course, such as Ophius (Ophios with wings!) and some are released erratically when we think it would be cool, such as Proteanc (Hrudinn as a Phoenix Bird).
Anyway, with Darklands now expanding nicely, we thought it would be a great idea to expand the BaneBeasts a little by reversing the process and turn some of our awesome Darklands monsters into more generic fantasy monsters for the... well, more high fantasy painters and collectors out there!
It's a Kickstarter Project?
It certainly is! It will begin today at 3pm GMT (don't worry, there's no early birds) but it will definitely end on the 9th of February at 6pm GMT. So twenty-four days of awesomeness!
How Will it Work?
This project will be extremely simple - there'll be some cool monsters for you to back (all of which are based on existing miniatures in the Darklands range) and some fantastic add-ons, too, and everything will be posed at a huge discount - around 40% off the projected RRP! After all, we only have to fund the additional bits and pieces, the big stuff is already done - so we can pass on those savings to you!
At this point, it's time to give you a sneak peek of one of the stretch goals...
Rat Beast - guest designed by Wayne Kemp of Heelanhammer, drawn by Stefan Kopinski
Rat Beast - guest designed by Wayne Kemp of Heelanhammer, drawn by Stefan Kopinski
Today is the first update for Darklands: Monstrous Mounts of 2015, so it's a resounding "Happy New Year!" from us - and to celebrate that, we have two fantastic things for you today: the completed Erebius on Behema, and news of our next project, BaneBeasts: Mighty Monsters - which goes live at 3pm GMT today!
This week we have:
sculpt work in progress updates from Dan Cockersell;
news of our fantastic non-Darklands Kickstarter project, BaneBeasts: Mighty Monsters;
a list of what miniatures should be sent in Wave 5 and later Waves, and when Wave 5 will occur;
a list of sculptors and sculpts for this project;
downloadable versions of the current QuickStarter Rules, Muster Rules and Kindred Musters;
...and anything else you can expect from us over the next few months.
Let's begin!
Erebius on Behema
The lovely Dan Cockersell has been cracking on with his latest masterpiece for Mierce Miniatures, Erebius on Behema!
The awesome Erebius on Behema is a fantastic miniature that is truly a centrepiece. It will dominate any Byzantii or Infernii host by its mere presence and effectiveness, but it will also be the centrepiece of your miniature collection or fantasy army.
It's just an amazing miniature - but don't take our word for it; check out the images below...
Here's a few close-ups so you can see the detail Dan's got in there...
Now, it takes Dan a while to get things moulded and cast for us (it's complicated, but he does the first castings over there in New Zealand) so it could be Wave 6 before we can actually send Erebius on Behema out. We do hope we can send him in Wave 5, but he's coming to you soon, either way!
First, awesome to see the Erebius on Behema sculpt completed!!!
It will be a bummer if it slips to wave 6, though - that will mean that only one sculpt was shipped on time for the Monstrous Mounts campaign :-/. And it looks like everything else except one sculpt has definitely slipped to wave 6 (and none of the others are even begun being sculpted yet, according to the update).
With a backlog like this, that's why people are saying more campaigns seems like an issue... there is so much to be done already, some of which is behind schedule.
Still, very glad I pledged for that model - it is beautiful
The Oghu Keepers, Oghurithne Unit are steadily edging to the half-way point with Rubeg and Lobeg completed and Bogad half-way through...
It's been a while since we've seen Lobeg - the Oghurithne herald - but he's now completed, presumably thanks to Yannick sorting out all his nativity works... don't ask.
Lobeg will be with us fairly soon!
The latest Oghurithne is Bogad, a warrior with a perfect pose for such knock-kneed
Bogad is looking great so far!
Rubeg has been completed for a while of course, but here's his parted-up shots...
We do hope that Yannick will get Bogad completed fairly quickly, but it's very unlikely he'll manage to complete the rest of the unit before Wave 5. That means the Oghu Keepers should be a Wave 6 shipment!
Automatically Appended Next Post: And the Banebeasts KS is live
To be fair, considering the amount of models, they're doing pretty well getting them made and dispatched. Discounting New Kindreds (73 new sculpts, ignoring the alterations) , here's the total left to do for the previous kickstarters. I've omitted completed models, these are just the pending and partially completed ones:
First Edition - 10 outstanding:
Carys - Equitus Durio on Foot - Trytheorn - Rikkard - Wolfborn, Gesith Unit (Egbert - Wulfred - Hrothgar - Wigstan) - Equitus Durio on Horse - Maximus
First Edition II - 53 outstanding:
Young Magágg - Brunchaath on Gooracx - Ravener Birna - Abhorrents of Ys (Gorz - Relguss) - Spears of Dun Durn (Brusta - Fidaich - Oinuist - Smertae ) - Oghu Keepers (Brugbad - Dungabad - Bogad) - Armoured Hrōr - Eoric's Pack (5 Warriors) - Rēoc's Pack (Rēoc - Brega - Hædo) - Geraint on Ceffyldraig - Tonsured Caedoc - Warriors of Dyngonwy, Rhyfelwyr Unit (5 Warriors) - Parawn - Quintus Crito - In III Judas (5 Warriors) - Slaughterers (3 Warriors) - Enslaved Ágriosávra - Srók - Khallas - Thórrir - Hrókr - Ax-Crom - Flesh-Scavengers (Yrag - Bil - Flesh-Pile) - Shadows of Carn Bran (5 Warriors) - Max Schüte's second Descendant
Monstrous Mounts - 6 outstanding:
Brontull - Ágriosávra on Sávrakh - Krekkek - Beb on Pig-Bog - Birna on Fellhrafn - Vaenhildr
No early birds on this one. Ogre drake art looks cool, but rather different than the sculpt it is based on (lots of armor)... so that's a lot of modifications for the sculptor to make. I wonder what kind of rate Mierce gets for mods - have folks here gotten some of their modified sculpts, and were they worthwhile?
Definitely not pledging, but will keep an eye on this, of course
Yeah it would be nice to have the full Darklands rulebook by now and it is a little disconcerting that Mierce needs to do a not Darklands KS to move slightly altered variations of existing models to keep the KS $ coming in while the Darklands KS sculpting backlog gets worked through. If all the previous successful KS campaigns haven't made the Darklands game strong enough to make money on its own outside of KS it seems like that's going to be a constant struggle.
zedmeister wrote: To be fair, considering the amount of models, they're doing pretty well getting them made and dispatched. Discounting New Kindreds (73 new sculpts, ignoring the alterations) , here's the total left to do for the previous kickstarters.
...
69 total models spread over 10 - 15 sculptors.
How can you "discount New Kindreds", which doubles the workload?
You just listed 142 sculpts, not counting all the altered sculpts! Hence my asking what kind of rate they get on altered sculpts...
I've only pledged for Monstrous Mounts, which only has 2 completed sculpts, and only 1 which will ship on time. Everything else will be a few months late already. The domino effect is what is worrying - their backlog and commitment level is HUGE already, but they want to commit to yet more sculpts?! In the same timeframe, to boot - this new campaign is listed for June delivery, the same date as the vast majority of the New Kindreds sculpts.
I can't see how they have any chance of getting their huge level of current commitments done by then, let alone by adding more!
zedmeister wrote: To be fair, considering the amount of models, they're doing pretty well getting them made and dispatched. Discounting New Kindreds (73 new sculpts, ignoring the alterations) , here's the total left to do for the previous kickstarters.
...
69 total models spread over 10 - 15 sculptors.
How can you "discount New Kindreds", which doubles the workload?
You just listed 142 sculpts, not counting all the altered sculpts! Hence my asking what kind of rate they get on altered sculpts...
I've only pledged for Monstrous Mounts, which only has 2 completed sculpts, and only 1 which will ship on time. Everything else will be a few months late already. The domino effect is what is worrying - their backlog and commitment level is HUGE already, but they want to commit to yet more sculpts?! In the same timeframe, to boot - this new campaign is listed for June delivery, so it's overlapping with the others.
I discounted new Kindreds because I didn't want to go through and count up the alteration sculpts I seem to remember it being vastly cheaper and quicker get alterations done.
Yeah, it's a lot of work left to do, but it's not like they haven't done that amount of sculpts already. Some have slipped but some have made it through on time. Have a look at the completed sculpts so far then:
76 from World at War (I may be out by 1 or 2)
81 from First Edition
52 from First Edition II
3 from Monstrous Mounts now Behenna is complete
1 from New kindreds
213 sculpts produced so far - not bad for 2 a year run
That Erebius on Behema is badass looking, but I have no idea how those chains are going to survive much transport, particularly the dangling skulls.
I may end up having to spring for Kull. He's one of the few big critters I don't have, and that's a great price on his alt (and I like his weapons better).
But my point is, there's a domino effect - they're committed to finish somewhere close to 150 more sculpts within 5 months from now, not counting all the alterations!
I'm not sure of the exact number as a few things are projected out beyond Wave 7 (June), but the vast majority of things (including New Kindreds) are projected for Wave 7 (June) or earlier.
And now they're adding to that total, for completion within the same timeframe...
I don't think this is going to cause (much) slippage in the rulebook, as Tim is going to be pretty much running this
but sculpting could (although it depends whether or not the manage to pick up some new sculptors, or some of their older ones like they got Aragorn Marks for New Kindreds)
Granted, though to be fair, some of the New Kindred stuff is scheduled for October delivery. I think we'll see a lot of juggling of release over the coming months as sculpts are completed.
So from the looks of it, only 2 of the new sculpts from Mounts are done, the other 4 not even started.
I would like to see them take a break from the kickstarters so they can actually get those out. And that the new KS is just a few modifications to existing models makes it seem like a small cash grab.
So, that puts the total at 120 sculpts to complete by June. That's quite a lot to do in 5 months...
Using your prior number of 213 sculpts completed in 2 years, they have been producing at a rate of 8.9 sculpts per month. They would need to almost triple that number, to 24 sculpts a month, in order to finish their current commitments on time.
And again, that doesn't even count the altered sculpts in the total!
RivenSkull wrote: So from the looks of it, only 2 of the new sculpts from Mounts are done, the other 4 not even started.
I would like to see them take a break from the kickstarters so they can actually get those out. And that the new KS is just a few modifications to existing models makes it seem like a small cash grab.
A bit worried here
Can they though? Are they bringing in enough cash outside of the kickstarters to slow them down a bit? Or are they already getting 90% + of their potential market in on the kickstarters and only selling a small number of minis at full price and are thus caught in a perpetual kickstarter loop?
I like these new variants they've shown, and I'm sure I can find some use for them.
I've got enough that I've pledged for in the pipeline though, and I'm not even sure when any of it's supposed to ship at this point. I think I've paid for shipping on figures that missed their ship date- what happens with that shipping credit? I should check in to that.
Been a while since there's been any Khthon sculpts being shown too...
If you paid for a wave and ended up with Nothing shipping in it I'm sure Rob would refund/let you switch it to a later wave
(although my most recent shipment just had fewer minis than I originally expected in, so hopefully a later shipment will balance it out with more than expected)
Looking at how many sculpts still to be done (for the existing KS), may seem somewhat daunting, but it looks like they've now got about 18-20 regular sculptors on the books (plus some like Daniel Cockersell who can only do the occasional one around their real jobs)
so there's plenty of scope for things to start moving fast when they get down to it, and while those doing stuff for First Edition II should be well into their stride, those working on First Edition may well have had jobs for other people to finish first (like Valentin Zac whose just finished a sculpt for Infamy).
Tim books them well in advance so no progress on Darklands stuff does not mean they are doing nothing (or are just slow), it may well mean the were never expected to start till jan/feb/march etc this year
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: Tim books them well in advance so no progress on Darklands stuff does not mean they are doing nothing (or are just slow), it may well mean the were never expected to start till jan/feb/march etc this year
I know they are booked in advance, but the idea that they weren't expected to start until now would be more feasible if the entire Monstrous Mounts campaign wasn't supposed to be done next month (except one sculpt).
What has gotten companies in the most trouble on Kickstarter is chaining multiple unfulfilled campaigns together, and although Monstrous Mounts was supposed to be done when this one ends, fulfillment of it will barely have begun, and fulfillment of New Kindreds will not have even started. It's just a dangerous path to tread, and one that (imo) will not be sustainable indefinitely, which is why I've been hoping Mierce will plan for other avenues of release / more ways of generating income.
In response to a question about who's down to sculpt the Orc on the Wyvren
@Andy S. Gary Morley - we've had some sculpts from him recently (inc an Orc) which you might see at some point and they're excellent! Me and Rob are big fans of his elves (Rob had an all metal High Elf army that was 90% Morley back in the day) so we've fanboi'd out a bit recently ;0) In fact, if people keep pledging an elf (or two)might even appear at some point! I've also been chatting to my old mate Sean Green recently and he's interested in coming out of sculpting retirement for this project, which is great news!
Once upon a time a young Gary Morley was asked to sculpt the super special snowflake undead, Nagash himself
he did so coming up with a mini he liked, but..... design didn't (he needs a skull not zombie head) so he threw one together really fast and shoddily expecting them to say 'that's rubbish' and go for the original
the didn't and loved the pumpkin/skull combo thus Nagash the Horrible came to be released
Gary Morley has sculpted some of the worst miniatures GW ever produced.....I'm tempted to drop my pledge and remove the Wyvern option after hearing this news.
This WAS going to be my first mierce order. I need a orc on a wyvern for my Kings of War army, but not if done by The same person who made those. Please someone show us some of his good work.
Theophony wrote: This WAS going to be my first mierce order. I need a orc on a wyvern for my Kings of War army, but not if done by The same person who made those. Please someone show us some of his good work.
He's not good, but not everything he makes is trash like some people online say.
Morley has done some great stuff, a lot of the crap he did at GW was at a time when a large amount of what they were releasing was mostly crap, they'd changed to that cartoonish style and it made everything gak.
It's a shame you have to buy the entire minis and not just bits, the new head and arms on the demon lady look awesome, but I don't like the body.
RiTides wrote: So many skulls on that first figure. Totally didn't see the skulls making up the inside of the cloak until a second pass
I see 8 not counting those - am I missing any?
"Classic GW style" is right
To be fair, that is Heinrich Kemmler, the great Wizard of deathy death magic - if ever there was a model that justified a little skull lovin then he'd be near the top of the list!
Also, to be fair, the Wyvern is already sculpted and done and it is pretty spectacular, so it will just to be one sculpted orc rider that needs to be done. So I don't really see how it can go wrong.
Kemmler (couple of posts above) is in my top 10 fave GW sculpts. For a sculpt that's over 20 years old it still holds its own to this day and doesn't even look out of place with the current aesthetic.
I know Gary - he hates that Nagash has stalked him for decades. It wasn't his best work he knows that - you have to bare in mind that back then the Studio was smaller, much smaller and there was a lot of pressure to have x done for y. I know from talking to more recent ex-GW sculptors that they have a lot more time per project in recent years. Also the sculpt pre-dates the awesome Mark Gibbons art that it is often compared to. There was no actual concept art of Nagash for Gary to work from - just a vague outline/story. It's also over 20 years old - people learn from experience. I think the Nagash/Morley is almost an internet meme now that gets wheeled by people and I think it's quite sad. You have to bear in mind that he has read some of those sort of comments and it must be very hurtful to be attacked and lambasted for something you did 20 years ago - a mediocre sculpt (that GW sold a ton of btw) and he gets hammered for it by people that like to think that a project you worked on 20 years ago will be the same quality as one you will work on today (and often compare the older project with someone else's more current one). I can think how that would effect someone's confidence in a field that they work in.
He's a lot more than the wheeled out examples and I know he always preferred to sculpt fantasy or Blood Bowl over 40k. He's doing great recently and his sculpts for Avatars of War are excellent.
I've a pretty good record of putting the right concept to the right sculptors, so indulge me a little. This piece is going to look great. I picked up some of Gary's personal sculpts recently 9that we will release in time)- they're fantastic. A very different look to Darklands (they'll likely be Bane Lords) but that's not surprising.
Darklands has a very 'Euro-style' near realistic look (weapons aside) in the main where as Gary's work (and a few other ex-GW guys such as Mike Anderson who adapted his style a little for his Rikard sculpt) is what they describe as more 'graphic'. I certainly want this Orc to match the 'chunky' style of the concept (a concept that Neil Hodgson nailed btw). It's a more classic UK style. One of the pieces we picked up from Gary is an Orc and it convinced me to offer him this project - it's excellent and apart from the head (which has a more WoW style, we may change or offer another head so people can choose) it matches the art direction of our Orc on Wyvern perfectly.
Sean Green (ex FW) will hopefully be working on a piece that we have yet to unveil. It's a piece that's perfect for him, he loves it (enough for me to have tempted him out of a sculpting hiatus) and again it doesn't pull away from the Darklands guys. It wouldn't even make sense in some cases to use some of the Darklands guys in some cases as the art direction is different in many cases.
We're also keen to ensure that we don't cannibalise work from the Darklands projects, or where we do use the same guys, we have already planned the Darklands schedule. For example Yannick Hennebo is working on changing Euryalia into the pleasure Demon - but he has a relatively open schedule at the mo and is only committed to a small amount of Darklands sculpts over the next 6 months (we left Allan Carrasco the orginal sculptor alone as he has plenty of Darklands stuff to do and a full schedule) . Ditto Dan Cockersell - all of his future work with us (Darklands and Banebeasts) are adaptations rather than full sculpts, which helps as he works full-time.
Behema/Erebius has had a wee delay over the latter end of 2014 as Dan got a promotion on a project at Weta Workshop which (naturally) impacted on his free time. He caught up nicely (as he predicted, so we weren't concerned) over his Xmas break though and is now back to a more normal routine. I've no issues giving Dan the Krull into War Daemon alterations. There's some thought gone into this ;0)
Joyboozer wrote: Morley has done some great stuff, a lot of the crap he did at GW was at a time when a large amount of what they were releasing was mostly crap, they'd changed to that cartoonish style and it made everything gak.
It's a shame you have to buy the entire minis and not just bits, the new head and arms on the demon lady look awesome, but I don't like the body.
You will be able to buy the bits when they reach retail release (Mierce is brilliant and let you buy individual bits for all their stuff)
however because of the resulpting the new bits might not fit on the original minis without a bit of conversion so if you do go down that route email them and check first
Gary Morley also sculpted the Mantic Drakon Riders IIRC.
That being said I think his style is well suited to Orcs and I am a little tempted by the Wyvern rider as an Orc Krudger on Winged Slasher for Kings of War.
Baragash wrote: Gary Morley also sculpted the Mantic Drakon Riders IIRC.
That being said I think his style is well suited to Orcs and I am a little tempted by the Wyvern rider as an Orc Krudger on Winged Slasher for Kings of War.
Baragash wrote: Gary Morley also sculpted the Mantic Drakon Riders IIRC.
That being said I think his style is well suited to Orcs and I am a little tempted by the Wyvern rider as an Orc Krudger on Winged Slasher for Kings of War.
Are those the goofy looking lizards in an upright pose with their tongues sticking out? If so, I'm definitely not a fan.
Good point - I think the Gary Morely style will suit ORKS perfectly!
On top of that, I've always heard good things about him, and that he's an all around nice guy - so here's to wishing him the best, and to him cranking out a spectacular sculpt!
I think adoption of any of it is difficult to get started (obviously made much harder by the lack of a released rule book - even Infinity, with an established player base, had all the locals stop playing while waiting for N3). The banebeasts mods seem clearly aimed at use in other game systems, but it's tough timing with 9th Ed fantasy changes rumored to be so drastic!
May not be in full support of Bane Beasts but since you can order an extra Orc for the Wyvern I'd actually be interested in a Wyvern without an Orc. It'd be cool if "dragon riding" Geraint from Darklands was compatible with the updated sculpt.
PomWallaby wrote: May not be in full support of Bane Beasts but since you can order an extra Orc for the Wyvern I'd actually be interested in a Wyvern without an Orc. It'd be cool if "dragon riding" Geraint from Darklands was compatible with the updated sculpt.
I like that idea.
I'd wanted a riderless Ceffyldraig anyways.
That wyvern would need some nicer gear though, since the armor it's currently illustrated with looks somewhat slapdash orc- style.
Though I'm sure it will look great, I'm a little surprised they went with Parawn instead of Ansiralog (sp?) for the first dragon in this campaign. I get that he's smaller, and perhaps better suited to have a rider, but he's also not finished yet. The other dragon is BIGGER and has impressed a lot of people already, which I would think made him a shoe in, but perhaps not.
Also, they Teased a new head for Gaalagaak on the cover of one of the pod casts they did. I'm not sure if I'm in need of a 3rd one yet, though it is tempting!
Anyone know what the painting from front page of the kickstarter is from, the purple hued one? I don't recall seeing it before now. And if it's new, I think it's revealing a few new beasties!
I'm happy about the Dark Elf since it finally means Parawn will start to get sculpted, and I'll finally see something I pledged for from First Edition II getting made!
Another Friday is here, and that means it's update time - and it's a cracker today, fellow Miercenaries!
Enough intro: here's what you can find on this here update...
news of our fantastic non-Darklands Kickstarter project, BaneBeasts: Mighty Monsters, which began last week;
sculpt work in progress images from Allan Carrasco and Yannick Fusier;
a list of what miniatures are currently being sent in Wave 4;
an updated list of sculptors and sculpts for this project;
news of where you can download the current QuickStarter Rules, Muster Rules and Kindred Musters from the Mierce Miniatures website;
...and anything else you can expect from us over the next few months.
Let's begin!
We have two new miniatures from Allan Carrasco to show off this week as well as another update from Yannick Fusier...! We do spoil you guys.
Bogad
The Oghu Keepers, Oghurithne Unit are progressing nicely now, and all thanks to the lovely Yannick Fusier...
The fantastic Bogad is looking awesome with the addition of swords and Oghu stone!
We do hope that Yannick will get Bogad completed fairly quickly, but it's very unlikely he'll manage to complete the rest of the unit before Wave 5. That means the Oghu Keepers should be a Wave 6 shipment!
Thórrir
The incredible skills of Allan Carrasco return, and we rejoice - for even though Cnebba was just before Christmas, it seems like a lifetime ago... so here's his latest masterwork, Thórrir, the Troll Konungr (King to you and me) of omens!
Even though it's early days for Thórrir, with Allan's speed and professionalism, we reckon he could make it into Wave 5... but we'll see, as always!
Ravener Birna
That's not it from Allan, either - he's also quickly sorted out Ravener Birna, the alternate version of Birna, for you all to enjoy!
Ravener Birna is with us and she will definitely be a Wave 5 shipment...
I don't hate Morley, as some do - and I like some of his work. I think he's a solid second-tier sculptor (which is not an insult). Unfortunately following in Goodwin's footsteps on things like the High Elves doesn't help. The previews of his work (Warlock, Plague Priest, Wizard, etc) for Mierce in this campaign can't be helping the campaign, though - they look solidly like forgettable mid-90's GW sculpts.
Azazelx wrote: I don't hate Morley, as some do - and I like some of his work. I think he's a solid second-tier sculptor (which is not an insult). Unfortunately following in Goodwin's footsteps on things like the High Elves doesn't help. The previews of his work (Warlock, Plague Priest, Wizard, etc) for Mierce in this campaign can't be helping the campaign, though - they look solidly like forgettable mid-90's GW sculpts.
I agree with you, and unfortunately it is also the same reason I dropped my pledge from £100 to £30 when I saw he was involved in two out of the three monsters I was after.
My impression was that he was just doing the riders / human sized models to accompany some of the monsters, but I agree, the sculpts shown for these have definitely been "mid-90s-esque".
Since the whole point of much of this was to convert some of the monsters to ridden fantasy versions (which may become obsolete in a few months with 9th edition), it does seem to kind of defeat the purpose.
I do quite like the art of that Ogre Drake, but not nearly enough to pledge while waiting for Monstrous Mounts to deliver later than expected... I'm surprised with how well that campaign has done despite all the headwind, though - it may get near to the level of Monstrous Mounts, but I think they had to unlock quite a bit more than planned to do so.
Wow! What a fantastic Kickstarter project we've just taken part in!
BaneBeasts: Mighty Monsters has, of course, proved to be a rousing success, ending on £25,950 with 405 backers (of which a great many are new to both Kickstarter and Mierce Miniatures!), and we'd like to thank each and every one of you for contributing to that success. Without your pledge BaneBeasts: Mighty Monsters and its associated miniatures would not be produced!
quite an interesting conclusion to this one
it clearly didn't scratch an itch for a lot of us established darklands backers (or at least not in a big way), but it seems it DID do what they wanted it to, bringing in new backers both to Mierce and even to KS which is a good thing
Well, the project is over now. Netting £25,950 from 405 backers. So less total than Monstrous Mounts but more backers.
The interesting number to see would be how many of those backers are previous Darklands backers and how many are new. Gut feeling suggests that many of them have been in previous Darklands campaigns and have come over for a figure or two, based off familiar names in the comments and the low average per backer pledge level.
Personally, I went in for a little. I prefer some of the alternates to the original sculpts. It's just a shame we didn't make it to the Phoenix Demon this time. It always seems that the stretch goal we just miss is one that I'm interested in...
Edit: update came out whilst I was typing. Guess there were more new backers that it looks, from glancing through the comments.
I understand that people aren't so into some of Gary Morley's stuff, but having a 90's feel to it, isn't such a bad thing. I mean, people still create and play new 8-bit (big pixel) video games. People still shoot movies in black and white, why can't we have a resurgence of a very 90's style of miniature. A lot of us were big into warhammer in the early/mid 90's, and it gives us a nostalgic edge to see the miniatures like that. Plus, I think at least both Tim and Rob were real fans of that era of minatures, and it's a big kick for them to have these classic sculpters making new stuff in that style. And, if differentiates it from the Darklands stuff a bit.
From one of the podcasts Tim was on, it sounds like the next banebeasts KS will be coming in April. I would assume they'd start it off with the Phoenix Demon land that new Chimera. Overall it seems like this one was pretty successful though, and since they're mostly using non darklands sculpters it shouldn't slow down production on that line, and let those fans have a breather as things catch up.
Really glad we got the the ox-gore though, love the original model, and this new one should be awesome!
It definitely brought me in, ended up backing it purely because I love that Krull model from Darklands, but couldn't justify getting it for the price. But seeing the Banebeast War Demon, with the helmet and the two axes, I couldn't resist dropping the cash for it. And considering it comes at such a good price compared to the normal Krull, I'm not complaining. Cheaper and with cooler options? I'm in.
Well, until I have a rulebook in my hands, I'm going to be very conservative with my (already modest) funds unless any new models can pull double duty in other games.
I'm a "book in hand" sort of guy, not going to try and rationalise it, it's just a quirk, but I find it much harder to absorb info off the screen or even a printout than a proper printed page.
Given I've got enough for a small force, plus a bunch of other models I got cause they were purdy, I'm now at the point where I just need the book to stop being pushed back.
No, my first big pledge was for the 2nd (?) project, so I am owed the full strength one.
It's not just my weirdness either, I've been an advocate for the models locally for some time, but whenever the discussion turns to the rules, I am frequently on the end of the "smelling a fart" expression.
Azreal13 wrote: No, my first big pledge was for the 2nd (?) project, so I am owed the full strength one.
It's not just my weirdness either, I've been an advocate for the models locally for some time, but whenever the discussion turns to the rules, I am frequently on the end of the "smelling a fart" expression.
No, not because I did a fart.
I have 6 of the physical KS mini rule books, PM me your address and I am happy to pay for 2nd class postage to stop your friends thinking you smell. I also am a 'book in hand' player so I know what you mean.
skullking wrote: I understand that people aren't so into some of Gary Morley's stuff, but having a 90's feel to it, isn't such a bad thing. I mean, people still create and play new 8-bit (big pixel) video games. People still shoot movies in black and white, why can't we have a resurgence of a very 90's style of miniature. A lot of us were big into warhammer in the early/mid 90's, and it gives us a nostalgic edge to see the miniatures like that. Plus, I think at least both Tim and Rob were real fans of that era of minatures, and it's a big kick for them to have these classic sculpters making new stuff in that style. And, if differentiates it from the Darklands stuff a bit.
Really glad we got the the ox-gore though, love the original model, and this new one should be awesome!
I don't hate the 90's, but it was a time (in GW terms) where a lot of the really nice late-80's/early 90's stuff was sadly replaced by a lot of stuff that's was basically, pretty bad with silly-exaggerated proportions, ham hands and unimaginative design. Look at the Realm of Chaos-era Champions and Original Lesser Daemons, and then compare them to the second-generation Lesser Daemons. The original Chaos Dwarves and the Big Hats, Jes Goodwin's Elves and Skaven, Bob Naismith's Dark Elves - and their replacements. Some 90's stuff I still really like. The metal beastmen were (and still are) great. We're still following Goodwin's '90's Space Marine template today because it works so well. But for every step forward in sculpting and design, there seemed to be (at least) one step backward.
Azreal13 wrote: No, my first big pledge was for the 2nd (?) project, so I am owed the full strength one.
It's not just my weirdness either, I've been an advocate for the models locally for some time, but whenever the discussion turns to the rules, I am frequently on the end of the "smelling a fart" expression.
No, not because I did a fart.
I have 6 of the physical KS mini rule books, PM me your address and I am happy to pay for 2nd class postage to stop your friends thinking you smell. I also am a 'book in hand' player so I know what you mean.
skullking wrote: I understand that people aren't so into some of Gary Morley's stuff, but having a 90's feel to it, isn't such a bad thing. I mean, people still create and play new 8-bit (big pixel) video games. People still shoot movies in black and white, why can't we have a resurgence of a very 90's style of miniature. A lot of us were big into warhammer in the early/mid 90's, and it gives us a nostalgic edge to see the miniatures like that. Plus, I think at least both Tim and Rob were real fans of that era of minatures, and it's a big kick for them to have these classic sculpters making new stuff in that style. And, if differentiates it from the Darklands stuff a bit.
Really glad we got the the ox-gore though, love the original model, and this new one should be awesome!
I don't hate the 90's, but it was a time (in GW terms) where a lot of the really nice late-80's/early 90's stuff was sadly replaced by a lot of stuff that's was basically, pretty bad with silly-exaggerated proportions, ham hands and unimaginative design. Look at the Realm of Chaos-era Champions and Original Lesser Daemons, and then compare them to the second-generation Lesser Daemons. The original Chaos Dwarves and the Big Hats, Jes Goodwin's Elves and Skaven, Bob Naismith's Dark Elves - and their replacements. Some 90's stuff I still really like. The metal beastmen were (and still are) great. We're still following Goodwin's '90's Space Marine template today because it works so well. But for every step forward in sculpting and design, there seemed to be (at least) one step backward.
Ha! You're giving me flashbacks to opening a white dwarf and seeing those bald/bug eyed/massive clawed/ Xena Warrior princess dressed Demonettes! Man, what a poor change of direction that was! The second incarnation of Chaos demons in the 90's definitely was a turn for the worse in my opinion, although, the Plague bearers were pretty good I thought. That being said, there are surely some people (few I hope) who prefer this series of demons to any of the others. Most of the 90's stuff was not that bad, and I'm sure it was more the creative direction for the company than the sculptors fault that they looked as bad as they did. It did seem like there was some need by GW to 'kiddie-fy' all their stuff, and make it more friendly at that time for some reason, and admittedly, they've never quite gotten back to the 'Rogue Trader' edge they had for awhile there.
I hope Gary just does 'his style' on the pieces he's commissioned to do. And I really am interested in what Sean Green does with the plague demon, i hope he deviates a lot from the artwork, as I think the drawing isn't very good, and retains too much Druc in it.
The Plaguebearers were perhaps the least bad of the Lesser Daemon resulpts, but still not nearly as good as Kev Adams' originals that had so much more personality (and Nurglings!) Tha Daemonettes and even Bloodletters are ok in many ways, and if they were new things rather than replacements for the lovely twisted originals, they wouldn't have been received (or perceived) so badly.
Given the work that he's shown in the previews so far, the Prawn-dragon resculpts could be pretty ugly. Hopefully you guys get better sculpts on those. The Orc is okay, but not a patch on either Adams or Nelson's work.
The lightest highlights from this Friday's Mierceday Updates:
From Monstrous Mounts:
Thanks to an awesome backer of ours, Grant Kinsley, the name of Jason Monkman appeared in our brains and - if nothing else but to hit some deadlines - we've decided to give the original sculptor of Blunt-Claw on his Goz-Horror, Benoît Cosse, a break and give Jason the job instead.
Here's a link to some of Jason's work on Facebook. He seems to be an incredible sculptor of crazy beasts, so he's perfect for us!
Yannick Fusier is plodding along with the Oghu Keepers and we're very glad that he is, because these guys are absolutely stunning...
Bogad is completed, although we don't have pics to reflect that, and so Yannick has begun work on Dungabad, the Oghurithne Nund or banner bearer. As you can see, he is going to be as fantastic as the rest!
We do still think the Oghurithne are on course for Wave 6... and we can't wait for them to arrive!
They've been a long time coming, the first shots of Eoric's Pack from Stéphane Camosseto, but we certainly think the wait was worth it... it's still early in the life of these sculpts, but they're going to be as fantastic as Hrōr!
Sigebald is the unit's banner bearer, a Fane Bearer.
The herald of Eoric's Pack is Heoruvard, and he's a Howler...
The first warrior of the unit is Rædwulf...
The last warrior of Eoric's Pack is Wealdhere.
It's taking Stéphane a little while to get these done, so we're not too confident they'll make it into Wave 6; but, as ever, we'll see...
We are running out of superlatives to describe Roberto Chaudon... so we'll let his work on Parawn speak for itself.
What a miniature! Here's a scale shot... the ring is 80mm round, so he will fit on an 80mm base. Note that we raised Parawn's head after this scale shot was made...
For the BaneBeasts: Mighty Monsters backers, and for those who'd like to see a sense of scale:
I trust everyone had a soft landing when they fell off their chair!
Parawn is a Wave 6 shipment, and next up for Roberto is Hrókr, the Gunnhrafn for the Norse... which should be equally awesome!
Parawn turned out 100x better than I thought he would - so yeah, that's him on the 'must buy' list!
Based on Stéphane Camosseto previous sculpts what are we going to get quality wise for the finished Eoric's Pack do you think? I want to order them but I'm really on the edge after getting put off by Wulfric's Pack, they seem rather poor compared to the artwork (could be due to the painted versions).
(i.e. two separate legs, body, tail in two pieces, each arm in two separate pieces, head in two separate pieces, or three in the case of Myrkanio, etc...!). The hot water trick was really easy to straighten shafts (just microwaved a cup for two minutes, stuck the staffs in for 10 seconds, then flattened them while they were malleable) but for every joint I found myself having to greenstuff it to get a good fit... I mean almost every joint!
reptiles get sculpted. All we ever see are dirty, hairy, scraggly -bearded man- apes or feathered warrior poultry these days!
bah, beaten by 20 seconds.
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